Off The Hook - 1993-12-29

[00:02.020 --> 00:08.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome for Audio Quilts, a potpourri of things to come in the realm of creative listening.
[00:19.270 --> 00:22.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's 10 o'clock on this snowy evening in New York.
[00:22.250 --> 00:24.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're listening to WBAI in New York.
[00:24.950 --> 00:26.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's time once again for Off the Hook.
[01:44.800 --> 01:46.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a very good evening to one and all.
[01:46.780 --> 01:47.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is Off the Hook.
[01:47.940 --> 01:49.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Emmanuel Goldstein with you for the next hour.
[01:50.400 --> 02:00.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we've got quite a show planned, including some information, some calls from you, our listeners, and various other surprises that will come along the way.
[02:00.080 --> 02:00.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[02:01.680 --> 02:06.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, let's do something a bit historic to begin with.
[02:07.540 --> 02:12.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's listen to something that we won't be hearing for very much longer at all.
[02:14.560 --> 02:22.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, we'll be hearing dial tones in the next couple of days, but soon thereafter, we won't be hearing this sound.
[02:22.800 --> 02:24.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, we'll be hearing those, too.
[02:24.460 --> 02:29.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll be hearing plenty of Touch-Tones, but we won't be hearing this familiar greeting.
[02:33.210 --> 02:34.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: New York Telephone.
[02:35.050 --> 02:35.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Bang.
[02:35.790 --> 02:36.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: May I help you, please?
[02:36.850 --> 02:37.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, hello, operator.
[02:38.050 --> 02:41.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: I heard a rumor that New York Telephone was not going to be around in a couple of days.
[02:41.590 --> 02:42.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that true?
[02:42.430 --> 02:42.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[02:44.130 --> 02:44.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not true?
[02:44.990 --> 02:45.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[02:45.690 --> 02:46.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to be around?
[02:46.850 --> 02:48.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: You mean they're just going to eliminate it?
[02:48.370 --> 02:51.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I just heard that New York Telephone won't exist after January 1st.
[02:51.710 --> 02:52.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that true?
[02:52.330 --> 02:53.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not true, sir.
[02:53.330 --> 02:53.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[02:53.730 --> 02:57.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: So you'll still be picking up the phone saying New York Telephone after January 1st?
[02:57.150 --> 02:59.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, New York Telephone will be called NYNEX.
[03:00.010 --> 03:01.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, so you're changing your name.
[03:01.450 --> 03:03.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[03:03.350 --> 03:04.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, but the service will remain the same.
[03:04.970 --> 03:05.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're the same, yes.
[03:05.890 --> 03:06.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, I thought so.
[03:06.750 --> 03:07.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you very much.
[03:07.330 --> 03:07.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, bye-bye.
[03:08.070 --> 03:08.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bye-bye.
[03:08.970 --> 03:11.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, folks, we got your hopes up for a second.
[03:11.890 --> 03:13.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: The service will remain the same.
[03:15.210 --> 03:16.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I knew people wouldn't want to know that.
[03:17.830 --> 03:22.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's hear a couple more historic recordings, because next show, we won't be hearing these recordings anymore.
[03:23.110 --> 03:28.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know it sounds like it's not a big deal, but you'd be surprised how attached you get to these things.
[03:28.730 --> 03:33.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because, you know, I made recordings of various sounds that telephones made years ago.
[03:34.190 --> 03:35.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now it's a great thing at parties.
[03:35.790 --> 03:40.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you play it for people, and you get all misty-eyed, and they think, wow, I remember that old crossbar ring.
[03:40.350 --> 03:42.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I remember when people used to sound like that.
[03:42.810 --> 03:44.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I remember when rings used to sound different.
[03:46.210 --> 03:47.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's all changed.
[03:47.410 --> 03:48.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's part of the changing world.
[03:49.550 --> 03:51.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, let's listen to...
[03:52.270 --> 03:53.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's see, what shall we listen to?
[03:53.370 --> 03:54.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I have something.
[03:54.490 --> 03:56.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have something really entertaining here.
[03:59.870 --> 04:03.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, this will be another greeting here.
[04:06.180 --> 04:07.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: New York Telephone.
[04:13.820 --> 04:17.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: From a push-button telephone, press 1-1 for collect calls.
[04:17.960 --> 04:21.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: To charge this call to another number, enter the complete number now.
[04:23.020 --> 04:27.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: The number you have dialed is a public telephone, which cannot accept collect calls.
[04:28.180 --> 04:30.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Please hang up and try another billing option.
[04:32.080 --> 04:34.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's always fun.
[04:34.220 --> 04:38.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, that will still be there, but they just won't give that standard greeting.
[04:38.720 --> 04:41.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, one more, and then we'll be done with this little feature here.
[04:42.560 --> 04:48.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this, what we're going to hear now, is the same greeting that every single information operator gives.
[04:48.900 --> 04:50.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, there are two greetings.
[04:50.620 --> 04:54.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: There is the male greeting, and there is the female greeting.
[04:56.000 --> 05:03.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And no matter what greeting you get, you are guaranteed to be connected to an operator of the appropriate gender who did not make that recording in the first place.
[05:03.460 --> 05:06.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's see if they'll admit to it in the first place.
[05:09.160 --> 05:10.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Calling up information.
[05:10.280 --> 05:10.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: New York Telephone.
[05:10.980 --> 05:11.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Last time we'll ever hear this.
[05:17.190 --> 05:18.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: New York Telephone.
[05:18.250 --> 05:18.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: What town, please?
[05:19.570 --> 05:19.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[05:20.030 --> 05:20.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello, operator?
[05:20.730 --> 05:21.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[05:21.290 --> 05:22.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, that wasn't your voice, was it?
[05:22.730 --> 05:22.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.
[05:23.270 --> 05:23.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: They sound totally different.
[05:24.510 --> 05:24.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[05:24.990 --> 05:28.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I heard a rumor that New York Telephone is not going to be around in a couple of days.
[05:28.330 --> 05:28.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that true?
[05:29.230 --> 05:30.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, then, though, they'll be around forever.
[05:31.110 --> 05:31.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, really?
[05:32.190 --> 05:33.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they changing their name or something?
[05:34.150 --> 05:34.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[05:35.110 --> 05:36.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: They'd be NYNEX.
[05:36.650 --> 05:37.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: NYNEX.
[05:37.150 --> 05:39.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so I guess that recording is going to change, then.
[05:39.950 --> 05:40.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[05:41.010 --> 05:41.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[05:41.690 --> 05:44.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd just like to keep track of these things for future reference.
[05:44.210 --> 05:44.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[05:44.250 --> 05:44.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's good.
[05:44.910 --> 05:45.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[05:45.530 --> 05:46.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well...
[05:46.190 --> 05:48.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know about that part, but I know the other part will be changing.
[05:49.070 --> 05:51.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh, so it's going to be called NYNEX from now on, no more New York Telephone.
[05:51.950 --> 05:52.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[05:52.590 --> 05:54.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or they have to paint all the trucks over, don't they?
[05:54.510 --> 05:56.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they're supposed to do them all over, they said.
[05:56.470 --> 05:56.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[05:57.130 --> 05:58.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, good luck, then.
[05:59.110 --> 05:59.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[06:00.110 --> 06:00.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're welcome.
[06:01.690 --> 06:09.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: And she's facing a crossroads in her career, obviously, going the big move from NYNEX to New York Telephone.
[06:11.570 --> 06:12.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Talk about excitement.
[06:13.050 --> 06:15.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll be talking about a lot more when we come back.
[06:15.470 --> 06:16.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Stay with us.
[06:19.450 --> 06:22.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Operator, can you help me?
[06:22.650 --> 06:24.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Help me if you please.
[06:25.490 --> 06:32.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Give me the right area code and the number that I need.
[06:32.150 --> 06:39.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: My rider left up on the midnight clock, singing like a summer breeze.
[06:42.110 --> 06:48.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's somewhere down south, down about Baton Rouge.
[06:49.370 --> 06:56.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I just can't remember no number, a number I can use.
[06:56.850 --> 07:00.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: The directory don't have a central done for God.
[07:01.150 --> 07:03.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Got to find a number to use.
[07:12.160 --> 07:18.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trying to check out a number, trying to run down a line.
[07:19.680 --> 07:25.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Operator says that's privilege information, and it ain't no business of mine.
[07:26.460 --> 07:30.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's flooding down in Texas, the poles are out in Utah.
[07:30.860 --> 07:32.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Got to find a private line.
[07:35.700 --> 07:42.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: You could be hanging around a steel mill, working in a house with blue lights.
[07:43.640 --> 07:49.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Riding to getaway bus out of Portland, talking to the night.
[08:28.910 --> 08:31.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: That, by the way, is one of the shortest Grateful Dead songs on record, I think.
[08:32.750 --> 08:33.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Operator.
[08:34.850 --> 08:37.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: New York Telephone operators will be no more.
[08:37.410 --> 08:43.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: New York Telephone anything will be no more, but don't get your hopes up, because they're still going to be around in many other ways.
[08:43.630 --> 08:52.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have some interesting mail from some of our listeners, and let's get right to that.
[08:52.890 --> 08:54.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: It concerns New York Telephone, in fact.
[08:54.370 --> 08:57.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: It concerns some of the practices this particular letter does.
[08:58.570 --> 09:01.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks to Joel from Brooklyn for sending this in.
[09:02.930 --> 09:10.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is a copy of a public notice that appeared in a hidden spot of your newspaper, only a couple of months ago, I believe.
[09:12.230 --> 09:16.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's concerning a proposed change in telephone company regulations.
[09:16.430 --> 09:20.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: We might have mentioned this once before, but it bears repeating.
[09:20.490 --> 09:24.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: It bears some sort of notice to be filed on our behalf.
[09:26.130 --> 09:27.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's listen to what they have to say.
[09:27.430 --> 09:39.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Notice is hereby given that a proposed tariff has been filed with the Public Service Commission to be effective October 22, 1993, which provides for the introduction of a new feature, anonymous call rejection.
[09:40.810 --> 09:43.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that goes with phone smart service.
[09:43.350 --> 09:58.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: The use of the anonymous call rejection feature will redirect an incoming call with an activated number restriction feature to an announcement that the call party, an ACR subscriber, anonymous call rejection, that the call party is not accepting such calls.
[09:59.310 --> 10:04.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Calling parties will be billed appropriate tariffed usage rates for intercepted calls.
[10:05.090 --> 10:13.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Subscribers to call ID, which is what they call caller ID here in New York, call ID, will be provided automatically with the ACR feature.
[10:14.050 --> 10:17.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Customers not subscribing to call ID may subscribe to ACR on a monthly basis.
[10:18.110 --> 10:23.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: The feature may be subscribed to individually or as part of a package with other phone smart features.
[10:23.610 --> 10:31.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: As ACR is introduced in a service area, the non-recurring charge for a subscription to the feature will be waived as described in the tariff.
[10:32.630 --> 10:40.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: ACR is provided in a deactivated state and can be activated and deactivated by the subscriber by dialing a code at their convenience with no charge.
[10:41.730 --> 10:50.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the rates that they proposed for this, anonymous call rejection for residences is $3, businesses is $4.50.
[10:51.190 --> 11:06.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have caller ID, though, there's no additional charge because the rate of $6.50 for businesses, I'm sorry, $6.50 for residences and $8.50 for businesses, the charge for caller ID will extend to cover anonymous call rejection.
[11:07.530 --> 11:14.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: And also, you can get anonymous call rejection with call return and repeat dial for a cost of $7.50 for residences and $11.50 for businesses.
[11:16.350 --> 11:23.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Additionally, appropriate service charges will apply as specified in the tariff, meaning they can basically do whatever they want.
[11:24.590 --> 11:28.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know how that turned out with the recent Public Service Commission recommendations.
[11:29.830 --> 11:36.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was no mention of that in any of the releases I saw as far as what anonymous call rejection's future is going to be.
[11:36.030 --> 11:37.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's an interesting service.
[11:37.550 --> 11:46.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: It sort of, again, makes phone calling more combative because people may choose to block their number when they make a phone call.
[11:47.390 --> 11:52.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then the person they're calling may say, well, if you block your number, I'm just not going to accept your call and I'll never even know who you were.
[11:53.390 --> 11:58.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, it seems to me this is an incredibly stupid feature to subscribe to.
[11:58.250 --> 12:05.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: The reason being, how often do you know if somebody calling you has privacy set on their phones?
[12:06.170 --> 12:07.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you may not know it.
[12:07.730 --> 12:14.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I'm surprised sometimes because I see in my caller ID box certain numbers show up and certain numbers not show up.
[12:15.150 --> 12:20.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some people decide to keep their privacy and some people decide not to keep their privacy.
[12:20.630 --> 12:33.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: And to simply blanketly reject anybody that doesn't wish to reveal who they are makes you look like a jerk to start with and could also really be inconvenient in an emergency.
[12:33.810 --> 12:43.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Supposing someone is calling you from a stranger's house and that stranger is an evil person and they're currently chasing him through the house.
[12:43.830 --> 12:49.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And just like in the film, you know, where you're running through a hallway and you're tripping because you're wearing high heels.
[12:49.330 --> 12:56.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: You grab the phone and you dial your best friend's number and your best friend says, Sorry, I don't take calls from anonymous people.
[12:56.310 --> 13:02.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you, because you're not a technical genius, you don't know how to deactivate the privacy feature on the telephone.
[13:02.150 --> 13:03.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just know how to make a phone call.
[13:05.170 --> 13:06.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: But settings are settings.
[13:06.710 --> 13:07.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rules are rules.
[13:08.830 --> 13:10.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you reject all anonymous calls?
[13:11.510 --> 13:12.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[13:12.170 --> 13:14.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just think one day it's going to come back and haunt you.
[13:16.410 --> 13:16.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[13:17.270 --> 13:18.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anonymous call rejection.
[13:18.330 --> 13:19.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, come on.
[13:19.170 --> 13:29.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: What kind of society are we entering here where making a phone call, you have to make all these settings and prearrangements and conditions apply.
[13:30.230 --> 13:32.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just make the bloody phone call, you know.
[13:32.870 --> 13:34.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Someone picks up the phone.
[13:34.330 --> 13:36.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: If they don't like who you are, they'll hang up.
[13:36.870 --> 13:42.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: If they tell you not to call back and you call back even so, then you're starting to harass the person.
[13:42.190 --> 13:46.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's very unlikely the first time you call somebody it will be considered harassment.
[13:49.170 --> 13:49.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[13:50.250 --> 13:54.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Continuing with some New York telephone information.
[13:54.950 --> 13:57.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is also from Joel Brooklyn.
[13:57.590 --> 13:59.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Comes from Consumer Reports of 1988.
[14:00.490 --> 14:01.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: November of 1988.
[14:01.770 --> 14:03.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Concerning the Touch-Tone fee.
[14:04.110 --> 14:06.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: A little column here called Dialing for Dollars.
[14:06.970 --> 14:12.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: In nearly all states, phone companies impose an extra monthly charge for Touch-Tone telephone service.
[14:12.630 --> 14:19.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: In New York, for instance, people pay a $9.90 connection charge for a Touch-Tone line and $2.21 a month thereafter.
[14:20.430 --> 14:22.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess that's gone down since 1988.
[14:22.550 --> 14:24.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: But there is still a charge.
[14:24.310 --> 14:26.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there are quite a few states now that don't have charges.
[14:27.750 --> 14:33.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Continuing, such charges may have been justified 20 years ago when Touch-Tone service was a novel luxury.
[14:33.630 --> 14:39.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Today, however, it actually costs a phone company less to provide a Touch-Tone line than a line that accepts only pulse dialing.
[14:40.550 --> 14:44.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pulse dialing is what rotary dial phones and some push-button phones use.
[14:44.550 --> 14:47.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: You hear mechanical clicks as you dial, not electronic tones.
[14:49.170 --> 14:56.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Says Carl Opadale, a New York lawyer who wrote the Telephone Book, which is a guide to telephone equipment and services.
[14:56.230 --> 14:59.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: It saves money for the phone company every time someone converts to Touch-Tone.
[15:00.870 --> 15:08.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: According to him, phone companies use devices called digit receivers to listen to the numbers being dialed as the first step in putting through a call.
[15:08.930 --> 15:14.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because a call from a pulse phone takes so much longer to dial, the digit receiver is tied up longer.
[15:14.990 --> 15:19.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: As a result, the phone company needs more of those receivers than if all calls were Touch-Tone.
[15:20.290 --> 15:23.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then, why does Touch-Tone service cost more?
[15:23.690 --> 15:26.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some local phone companies may wish it didn't.
[15:26.130 --> 15:31.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: The extra charge makes it harder to sell new services that require the tones generated by a tone phone.
[15:31.370 --> 15:39.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: In California, Pacific Bell has proposed that the monthly surcharge for Touch-Tone be dropped completely, arguing that Touch-Tone should be considered part of the basic service.
[15:39.810 --> 15:43.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the way, that has since happened, and in quite a few other states as well.
[15:43.950 --> 15:44.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not New York, though.
[15:46.190 --> 15:48.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Continuing, not all state regulators buy that argument.
[15:49.050 --> 15:56.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: The New York State Public Service Commission, for example, considers Touch-Tone service an extra and allows companies to charge more for it.
[15:56.510 --> 15:59.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is the convenience of a Touch-Tone line worth the monthly surcharge?
[15:59.990 --> 16:08.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: In deciding, keep in mind that if you buy a phone with a tone pulse switch, you can still use such tone-only services as bank by phone.
[16:08.450 --> 16:13.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'd simply dial the bank on the pulse setting, then switch to tone to communicate with the bank's computer.
[16:14.570 --> 16:18.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that comes from Consumer Reports of November 1988.
[16:19.530 --> 16:26.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Seems to me anybody with the facts would realize that paying for it is giving money away.
[16:26.530 --> 16:29.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you like that kind of thing, then by all means continue.
[16:29.250 --> 16:33.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, I don't know, it rubs a lot of us the wrong way.
[16:33.410 --> 16:46.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: And also, we have a letter that Joel from Brooklyn got from the Public Service Commission, New York Department of Public Service, 3 Empire State Plaza, Albany, New York, 12223, for those of you that want to write to them.
[16:49.170 --> 16:55.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this concerns the same topic, basically, Touch-Tone fees.
[16:56.850 --> 17:03.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Senator Markowitz contacted the Public Service Commission regarding your concerns about the charges for Touch-Tone service.
[17:04.610 --> 17:13.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Historically, New York Telephone's charges for a number of services, including Touch-Tone service, were set at a rate that was above the company's actual cost to provide the service.
[17:13.990 --> 17:22.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: The additional revenues that were thereby generated were used to subsidize the cost of those basic services that are essential for a residential customer to have telephone service.
[17:23.110 --> 17:28.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: In recent years, the Public Service Commission has been moving towards, quote, cost-based rates, unquote.
[17:29.230 --> 17:33.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is, rates that are set based on the actual cost of providing the particular service.
[17:34.490 --> 17:40.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cost-based rates are more equitable, send the right price signals, and have become a necessity.
[17:40.430 --> 17:51.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: As more of the provision of telephone service becomes subject to competition, a company whose rates are above cost is at a disadvantage when it must compete with a company whose rates only reflect its costs.
[17:51.630 --> 17:55.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, we all know that New York Telephone gets away with this because they have no competition.
[17:56.210 --> 17:58.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: But that's another matter entirely.
[17:58.910 --> 18:13.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Continuing here, the Commission's move towards cost-based rates is being implemented gradually, since all decreases in the cost of a service like Touch-Tone must be offset by increases in the charges for the basic telephone services that were being subsidized.
[18:14.050 --> 18:19.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thus, the charge for Touch-Tone service has been reduced in New York Telephone's last two rate cases.
[18:19.950 --> 18:23.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a further reduction has been proposed in the current rate case.
[18:24.610 --> 18:26.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I trust that this has been responsive to your concerns.
[18:26.950 --> 18:29.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: If I can be of any further assistance to you, please contact me.
[18:29.370 --> 18:34.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that comes from Glenn Alvarenga, Consumer Service Representative of the New York Department of Public Service.
[18:34.930 --> 18:35.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, it's interesting.
[18:35.690 --> 18:44.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Their line of thinking here says that, well, if you take away the Touch-Tone fee, you have to get that money somewhere else.
[18:44.070 --> 18:47.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to charge more for another service.
[18:47.590 --> 18:49.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're going to eliminate the money for this service.
[18:49.970 --> 18:55.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what they don't seem to ever want to consider, and you have to wonder about this, because this is the Public Service Commission.
[18:55.910 --> 18:57.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: These are the people that are supposed to know about these things.
[18:58.030 --> 19:01.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're supposed to be doubting the phone company and sticking up for consumers.
[19:03.150 --> 19:06.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, maybe the phone company is simply ripping us off.
[19:06.630 --> 19:10.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe they're simply charging us for something they shouldn't be charging us for in the first place.
[19:10.170 --> 19:13.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you take that away, hey, you don't make up for it someplace else.
[19:13.810 --> 19:14.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a rip-off.
[19:15.030 --> 19:17.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: That means that they're not entitled to it.
[19:17.450 --> 19:21.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: That means that we need to make things equitable and not charge people for nothing.
[19:23.050 --> 19:26.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, I think the phone company is doing just fine.
[19:27.830 --> 19:33.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the paint job for those trucks alone is going to, uh, going to go through the roof.
[19:34.350 --> 19:38.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, we have, um, another letter here.
[19:38.450 --> 19:40.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, uh, a newspaper article somebody sent in.
[19:42.030 --> 19:43.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks to the anonymous, uh, contributor.
[19:45.330 --> 19:49.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who reads the New York Post, so I guess that's why they want to remain anonymous.
[19:49.690 --> 19:50.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[19:51.070 --> 19:53.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, this, um, comes from the Associated Press, actually.
[19:54.150 --> 19:58.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Citibank's telemarketers should never have called consumer advocate Michael Jacobson more than once.
[19:59.330 --> 20:03.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: He'd been waiting to test a law against unwanted phone solicitations.
[20:03.690 --> 20:09.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Jacobson told Citibank twice not to call again with its offers of credit card discount services.
[20:09.330 --> 20:14.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: The third time, he sued and won a $750 settlement this week.
[20:15.470 --> 20:21.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Jacobson says he'd been keeping a tele-nuissance list since the Telephone Consumer Protection Act went into effect a year ago.
[20:22.830 --> 20:24.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Any one of you can do the same thing.
[20:24.970 --> 20:28.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep a little list and check it many times.
[20:28.970 --> 20:29.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And who knows?
[20:30.030 --> 20:32.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Somebody may violate your rules.
[20:32.410 --> 20:35.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you may have, uh, cause to take action against them.
[20:36.910 --> 20:37.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[20:38.050 --> 20:39.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, here's something interesting out of Babylon.
[20:40.870 --> 20:48.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: A Babylon Long Island man who criticized a company's stock on a computer bulletin board has settled a libel lawsuit with the company.
[20:48.470 --> 20:54.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Medphone Corporation of Paramus, New Jersey had sued Peter DeNegres last year for up to $40 million.
[20:55.810 --> 21:01.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: After DeNegres posted a series of negative comments about the company on the bulletin board called Money Talk.
[21:01.950 --> 21:06.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: The bulletin board is run by Prodigy Computer Service and it's for investors to swap stock tips.
[21:07.210 --> 21:13.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: The lawsuit attracted attention because it could have been a test of First Amendment rights of free speech and how it applies to computer bulletin boards.
[21:14.290 --> 21:25.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: DeNegres, who was a 42-year-old administrator for the Suffolk County Board of Elections, says he and medical equipment company, uh, the medical equipment company, that is, agreed to exchange $1 bills and drop the dispute.
[21:26.270 --> 21:27.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that sounds pretty silly.
[21:27.730 --> 21:30.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, uh, they, they simply traded dollar bills?
[21:31.530 --> 21:33.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, whatever floats your boat.
[21:33.270 --> 21:39.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, although DeNegres says freedom of speech prevailed, libel lawyers say the case did not set any precedence.
[21:39.650 --> 21:41.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not surprised with, uh, the way they dealt with it.
[21:42.190 --> 21:51.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: New York libel attorney Floyd Abrams told Newsday that an electronic bulletin board is not like a telephone and not like talking to someone in the privacy of your home or office.
[21:52.230 --> 22:00.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Another attorney, Robert Sack, told Newsday that libel would have been hard to prove since Medphone would have had to show that the statements made by DeNegres were false.
[22:01.950 --> 22:05.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sack says DeNegres was expressing his opinion, which is not libelous.
[22:06.710 --> 22:12.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: It does get pretty scary, you know, when, uh, you can say something on a computer bulletin board and suddenly gets sued for $40 million.
[22:13.910 --> 22:22.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not like, you know, saying it, uh, writing a letter to somebody and saying this or, or yelling out in a crowd or something like that, something comparable.
[22:23.050 --> 22:25.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, what is comparable to posting something on a computer bulletin board?
[22:25.550 --> 22:29.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: We seem to have an awful lot of trouble, uh, dealing with this.
[22:31.030 --> 22:31.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[22:32.070 --> 22:36.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, we have a couple other things to, uh, to cover, including this.
[22:36.530 --> 22:40.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: The, um, winter issue of 2600 Magazine has just come out.
[22:40.770 --> 22:44.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, if you're a subscriber, it will be forwarding its way to you in the mail.
[22:44.950 --> 22:46.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe next Monday is the mailing date.
[22:47.350 --> 22:51.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, it should be, uh, another one of those historical things.
[22:51.950 --> 22:59.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have, uh, a piece on cellular phones, a piece on something called a smartphone, which you have to, uh, start getting used to.
[23:00.570 --> 23:06.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Telephones that are sort of like computers with all the features that are being introduced by various phone companies.
[23:06.850 --> 23:09.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: You need a manual to figure out how to dial things.
[23:09.170 --> 23:12.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, wouldn't it be much better if you just had buttons that did all these things for you?
[23:12.670 --> 23:14.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's part of what smartphones do.
[23:15.130 --> 23:17.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, another article on how to hack a computer show.
[23:18.170 --> 23:18.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[23:19.010 --> 23:19.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: No kidding.
[23:20.770 --> 23:22.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Got to read it to find out what that's all about.
[23:22.710 --> 23:32.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also a feature on, uh, 9x voicemail and, uh, some book reviews, Internet news, and another expose on secure locks.
[23:33.050 --> 23:37.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that's all in the, uh, winter issue, which has just gotten out.
[23:38.570 --> 23:39.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[23:39.530 --> 23:47.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, today is the 29th of December, which means next week will be the first week of January.
[23:47.890 --> 24:02.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what that means is that, um, this show and next week's show represent the last two programs that, uh, our resident, uh, uh, expert on telephones and computers, Phiber Optik will be able to attend.
[24:02.710 --> 24:06.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: The reason being that, uh, his presence has been requested.
[24:06.830 --> 24:21.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, uh, actually demanded in a federal prison for the next year after that, uh, because of, um, basically because of his outspokenness, according to what the judge said, uh, because, uh, he's a symbol, he must be treated as a symbol.
[24:22.290 --> 24:25.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Phiber, we won't treat you as a symbol here in these last couple of weeks.
[24:25.350 --> 24:26.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll treat you as a human being.
[24:26.670 --> 24:28.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I appreciate that very much.
[24:28.350 --> 24:28.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[24:28.850 --> 24:30.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, people want to call in.
[24:30.890 --> 24:44.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd like to devote the time that we have, um, which only really amounts to an hour and a half, uh, about another half hour this week and an hour next week to talking to Phiber, uh, having our listeners call in and, and exchange any kind of information with him.
[24:44.710 --> 24:48.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I do have something that I'd like to read first before we go to the phones.
[24:48.130 --> 24:51.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: This comes from a listener in New York, uh, Steve from New York, who has a question.
[24:51.970 --> 24:55.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm sure, uh, Phiber may be able to, uh, shed some light on this.
[24:56.190 --> 25:01.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, Steve writes, dear Mr. Goldstein, your show is outstandingly interesting and subversive.
[25:01.530 --> 25:07.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: And as with all things I perceive as worthwhile, it surprises me week after week to find you still on the air.
[25:07.950 --> 25:10.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, this is WBAI, don't forget.
[25:10.970 --> 25:14.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: We, uh, we care about things that are interesting and subversive here.
[25:15.950 --> 25:29.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whatever you may think of Ninex, your local cable TV company and the various other manifestations of big bungling brother, just be happy you don't live in France under the regime of, uh, France Telecom, where you pay extra to obtain an itemized billing statement.
[25:30.430 --> 25:31.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: He speaks truth there.
[25:31.750 --> 25:33.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is true of many countries.
[25:33.250 --> 25:35.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to pay extra to get itemized billing.
[25:35.470 --> 25:39.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: But then again, New York Telephone charges you extra to see a local itemized billing.
[25:39.490 --> 25:40.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's not that unusual.
[25:40.770 --> 25:43.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, in many countries you don't get any itemization whatsoever.
[25:43.490 --> 25:46.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just get, uh, a bill and you have to believe it.
[25:46.790 --> 25:49.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so, um, uh, that is true.
[25:49.550 --> 25:52.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, also, uh, local calls are billed.
[25:53.150 --> 25:54.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's, that's true in many places.
[25:54.850 --> 26:02.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: It costs more to, uh, call locally to call another part of, uh, of France from Paris than it does to call Paris from New York.
[26:03.890 --> 26:15.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: And online services are limited to something called Minitel, essentially a late 1950s vision of a late 1960s technology with just slightly less utility than a North American Touch-Tone phone.
[26:16.770 --> 26:21.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: In France, telephone usage is billed not by the minute, but by a fixed time cost unit.
[26:22.110 --> 26:30.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: For example, whereas one unit may click off for two minutes of local connect time, the same unit may click off in 10 seconds for a call to Paris between Paris and New York.
[26:30.450 --> 26:32.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's basically the, uh, the tick system.
[26:32.830 --> 26:37.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's kind of where the Dutch magazine Hack-Tic got its name because they have things called ticks over there.
[26:38.470 --> 26:50.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, instead of, uh, getting a, an itemized bill saying you spoke for five minutes at this particular rate per minute, you have a little device if you choose to get this device and you can see the ticks going by.
[26:50.250 --> 26:53.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you call something very, very far away, the ticks go maybe once a second.
[26:53.930 --> 26:55.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And each tick represents a certain amount of money.
[26:55.870 --> 27:02.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're calling something local, you may see one tick every five minutes, or you may just see one tick and that's it, depending on what kind of service you have.
[27:02.670 --> 27:09.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, there are certain test numbers, uh, that people have discovered that if you call them, it, it takes like a Geiger counter that's, uh, in a nuclear power plant.
[27:10.150 --> 27:20.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, some people have, uh, figured out ways of, um, of sending those, uh, those little ticks down the line and really scaring people by, uh, having their, their tick machine move extremely fast.
[27:21.410 --> 27:27.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so that is, uh, actually, I would say the standard way telephone calls are billed throughout the world.
[27:27.790 --> 27:29.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are the exception here in this country.
[27:30.550 --> 27:37.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Continuing, uh, with the letter here, uh, this system makes the use of a transatlantic callback system especially attractive and satisfying.
[27:37.910 --> 27:44.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: It may actually be more cost-effective to call between cities within Europe, even within France, via a U.S.
[27:44.470 --> 27:46.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: callback rather than directly.
[27:47.170 --> 27:51.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Voici un telecart, France telecom's answer to coin box thefts.
[27:52.250 --> 28:03.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: If France didn't already have coins worth almost $4, I would say this was the most cynical of attempts to make charging a dollar a minute or more for domestic phone calls less objectionable.
[28:03.730 --> 28:06.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: The question is, how does it work?
[28:07.050 --> 28:08.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And how could it be defeated?
[28:08.890 --> 28:14.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, what he's referring to is something that he enclosed, actually, and I must thank him for doing this, a, uh, a telecart.
[28:15.510 --> 28:17.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the sound of a telecart dropping on a table.
[28:18.070 --> 28:20.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, it's basically a plastic card here.
[28:20.510 --> 28:25.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm going to hand it over to Phiber over here, and, uh, he's going to analyze it for the next couple of seconds while I finish the letter.
[28:25.690 --> 28:30.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the time I finish with this, I'm sure he'll be able to, uh, tell us all kinds of interesting things about it.
[28:30.750 --> 28:31.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, how does it work?
[28:32.030 --> 28:32.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: How could it be defeated?
[28:33.070 --> 28:39.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Someone described the card's bug as a kind of integrated circuit that fuses once the credits are depleted.
[28:39.650 --> 28:48.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, you insert this card into a telephone and, uh, it kind of counts down how many units you have left until you have none left, and then the card is completely worthless.
[28:49.710 --> 28:51.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I suppose it's probably completely worthless now.
[28:51.730 --> 28:52.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[28:52.690 --> 28:59.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, more plausible to me is the concept of each card being linked to a central computer account, which runs down to zero with use.
[28:59.030 --> 29:04.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I suspect this to be the case since there are telecarts linked to one's phone account, which do not deplete.
[29:04.630 --> 29:05.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's interesting.
[29:05.610 --> 29:07.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Kind of like a calling card here in the States.
[29:09.310 --> 29:13.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, Phiber, any, uh, anything you can tell us about that.
[29:13.870 --> 29:18.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just looking at it, this is your, your typical, uh, smart card type device.
[29:18.910 --> 29:29.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just basically a plastic card, and then, uh, off to one side, there's a little metallic-looking square with a little pattern on it with an arrow facing which way to insert.
[29:29.710 --> 29:36.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's basically, uh, your trademark of knowing that you have, uh, some sort of smart card technology at work.
[29:36.330 --> 29:37.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, what makes this card smart?
[29:38.330 --> 29:48.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they, they call them smart cards because there's commonly a small integrated circuit, a chip inside the little metallic square.
[29:48.710 --> 30:06.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: And basically, when you insert the card into a telephone or an access device or whatever it is, then, uh, it will read or exchange information with the tiny microprocessor or microcontroller that's embedded right on the plastic.
[30:06.910 --> 30:10.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, we, we haven't really seen anything like that in this country, have we?
[30:10.130 --> 30:10.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not yet.
[30:10.930 --> 30:14.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, actually, uh, corporations use them as far as, uh, for security.
[30:14.670 --> 30:20.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I'm unaware of them being used in, uh, by the phone companies for calling cards.
[30:20.990 --> 30:27.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: How about those ones that, uh, New York, uh, excuse me, 9x is, uh, experimenting with down at the Staten Island Ferry?
[30:27.470 --> 30:28.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't, I haven't seen those yet.
[30:28.990 --> 30:30.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't, are those, uh, magnetic strips?
[30:30.690 --> 30:31.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure.
[30:31.350 --> 30:31.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't seen them either.
[30:32.150 --> 30:32.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure myself.
[30:32.950 --> 30:33.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[30:33.210 --> 30:40.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, I, I think that these kind of cards will be introduced in this country, because I think we're moving towards that, you know, the cashless society and all.
[30:41.190 --> 30:42.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean, it would certainly make sense.
[30:43.630 --> 30:50.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, what do you think of cards, uh, like the, um, like the listener, uh, said, cards that are linked to telephone accounts that don't depreciate?
[30:50.090 --> 30:51.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you think those are also smart cards?
[30:51.630 --> 30:53.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, most, I, I would think most definitely.
[30:54.170 --> 30:55.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: And why do they need to be smart?
[30:56.170 --> 31:18.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, basically, if, um, you need any sort of intelligent interaction between a debit system and the card holder himself, then it makes perfect sense to simply have a little embedded microcontroller on, on the little, the card itself, the access device that's going to allow you to bill calls or,
[31:18.210 --> 31:18.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: or what have you.
[31:20.170 --> 31:20.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[31:20.830 --> 31:24.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: But wouldn't all that technology be done within the phone company?
[31:24.490 --> 31:29.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wouldn't the only purpose of that card be to transmit the, uh, you know, the, the identification, the number of the card?
[31:29.990 --> 31:30.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: That could very well be.
[31:30.950 --> 31:34.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: But on the other hand, a smart card also offers security of that information.
[31:35.110 --> 31:42.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, if you could, it's the next logical step above having a simple magnetic strip on a card that you'd swipe it across a machine.
[31:42.350 --> 31:42.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mm-hmm.
[31:42.650 --> 31:56.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: The problem with that is people simply reading the magnetic, uh, magnetically encoded data on the card, which is easily readable, and just re-encoding it with some other data, possibly, uh, increasing, uh, the amount of, uh, of debit that you have left on the card.
[31:56.670 --> 32:01.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: For instance, with the, uh, the BART system or the, uh, DC Metro train system.
[32:01.830 --> 32:03.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or the future New York City Metro.
[32:03.390 --> 32:03.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[32:03.810 --> 32:04.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Train system.
[32:04.430 --> 32:07.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, I just saw a big poster for cards like that that will be coming out any day now.
[32:07.730 --> 32:13.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and, uh, if people are smart, they're, uh, the, uh, Transit Authority's gonna have some problems.
[32:14.310 --> 32:21.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because, uh, there's absolutely no way by looking at a transit card, a transit ticket that you can tell it's been tampered with.
[32:21.510 --> 32:23.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: It just looks like a normal transit ticket.
[32:23.710 --> 32:25.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unless they actually start printing on them.
[32:25.970 --> 32:28.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think they do that in the BART and the DC Metro system.
[32:28.810 --> 32:34.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: They actually, uh, when you slip it through the turnstile, it actually prints a number that's plainly visible on the paper.
[32:34.750 --> 32:39.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: But other than that, that's not gonna have anything to do with the, the transit ticket not being usable.
[32:39.510 --> 32:41.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'll simply re-encode some data on the magnetic strip.
[32:42.970 --> 33:04.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, on the other hand, with the smart card, any, any data that would be, uh, exchanged with some sort of intelligent debit system, like some centralized database or something, they can actually have software on the chip that's embedded in this card that will be able to not only protect the data on the card,
[33:05.170 --> 33:13.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: but, um, actually be more efficient and would be able to hold much more data than a simple magnetic strip.
[33:14.010 --> 33:15.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: How much more data?
[33:15.790 --> 33:23.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I mean, if you, typical microcontroller technology, you could hold on the order of, uh, many K of data.
[33:23.270 --> 33:25.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, now, how big is this chip here that we're talking about?
[33:25.890 --> 33:28.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's, I mean, how big, how big is a chip?
[33:28.750 --> 33:30.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's, uh, relatively small.
[33:31.070 --> 33:43.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, um, chips inside a computer, the only reason why they're that big at all is, uh, the casing protects the actual little silicon die that's actually inside the chip casing.
[33:43.750 --> 33:50.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: But if you actually wanted to make things really small, you can just do away with the chip casing.
[33:50.710 --> 33:58.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: And since these are, these are machine milled in plants, they simply embed the small silicon die right on the card.
[33:59.370 --> 34:11.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the actual metallic, uh, the actual shiny metal looking thing on the card are the actual contacts that the, uh, the chip would use to communicate with the outside world.
[34:11.890 --> 34:17.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, a regular sized credit card, then, is capable of having a chip in it?
[34:17.470 --> 34:17.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, sure.
[34:18.050 --> 34:24.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, looking at this, this, uh, telecart right here, I mean, 99% of this is plastic.
[34:24.290 --> 34:29.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: It absolutely, it serves absolutely no purpose other than to be something that people are used to handling.
[34:29.950 --> 34:31.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's the size of a normal credit card.
[34:32.250 --> 34:42.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: The actual, the actual smart card, the actual circuitry, the intelligence of this card is only really, uh, a centimeter squared.
[34:43.050 --> 34:47.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the actual silicon die is, is only a few millimeters squared.
[34:49.050 --> 34:50.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, this is basically all plastic.
[34:52.450 --> 34:58.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's, um, it's going to be an interesting, um, couple of years ahead when, uh, these things become prevalent.
[34:58.710 --> 34:59.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they've been around for a little while.
[35:00.590 --> 35:00.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, sure.
[35:00.990 --> 35:01.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: In Europe, especially.
[35:02.390 --> 35:03.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but we're starting to see them over here.
[35:04.110 --> 35:08.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you don't think there's any way to, uh, to thwart that particular system?
[35:08.250 --> 35:18.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, if, if they're actually engineered properly, the one, the strongest ones that I've heard of actually use, uh, public key encoding, public key cipher systems.
[35:19.530 --> 35:30.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that, uh, and, and besides that, many microcontrollers today have, uh, have all sorts of security features that are embedded in, in the actual integrated circuit itself.
[35:30.770 --> 35:41.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that someone with, say, uh, an EEPROM burner or an EEPROM reader wouldn't be able to actually access the data or the program on the microcontroller.
[35:41.370 --> 35:42.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: It would be protected from the outside world.
[35:44.410 --> 35:44.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Fascinating.
[35:45.410 --> 35:49.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I hope that answers, uh, our listeners' question as far as that particular card goes.
[35:50.010 --> 35:54.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, keep your eye out for cards like that in the future because they're going to be popping up everywhere.
[35:55.710 --> 35:58.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, may make for a better world.
[35:58.730 --> 36:03.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: May make for a scary world, too, when you have all this data being carried around in your pocket.
[36:04.470 --> 36:04.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[36:05.250 --> 36:09.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I'm going to take some phone calls from our listeners, 212-279-3400.
[36:10.610 --> 36:18.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I just have a very quick story that I, um, I just had, um, knowledge of today when I was helping somebody with their phone bill.
[36:19.390 --> 36:24.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: People always ask for help with their phone bills because it becomes very, um, very complicated.
[36:24.670 --> 36:34.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this particular company, there are all these different companies out there that you may get, uh, phone bills from on your regular New York telephone or New Jersey Bell telephone bill.
[36:34.390 --> 36:39.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, this person had gotten, um, a couple of collect calls showing up from a company named Encore.
[36:39.830 --> 36:45.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the person was curious because he had collect blocking on his line.
[36:45.370 --> 36:46.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: He had collect call blocking.
[36:46.990 --> 36:53.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: So he was wondering how in the world did a collect call show up when A, I don't accept collect calls and B, I have collect call blocking.
[36:53.170 --> 36:56.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I call up the Encore people and I asked them how is such a thing possible?
[36:56.810 --> 36:58.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they said, well, quite simple.
[36:59.430 --> 37:07.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: The person that made this call had said that, um, or was found out to be using a calling card that did not belong to them.
[37:07.190 --> 37:12.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, a, a compromised calling card was used to make that, uh, a direct dial call.
[37:13.270 --> 37:23.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: What they do in cases like this, according to the Encore customer service representative, is they simply back bill it as a collect call to the person that was called.
[37:23.730 --> 37:31.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: And their hope in doing that is that the person that, uh, received the call will know who placed the call and will tell on them.
[37:32.090 --> 37:35.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that person will get in trouble or they'll simply just pay the bill.
[37:36.110 --> 37:46.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now it strikes me that that's incredibly illegal to do something like that, to bill somebody for a collect call when, uh, you have not been authorized to do it and for a phone company to actually admit to doing this.
[37:46.970 --> 37:51.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I don't, I mean, in this day and age, I'm sure they can just get away with it because all kinds of things are happening out there.
[37:51.850 --> 38:00.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, I mean, it's just a warning to people to watch out for that company named Encore because, um, it doesn't sound like they're, they're using very, uh, kosher billing practices.
[38:01.070 --> 38:01.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think, Phiber?
[38:01.910 --> 38:10.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, these little, uh, garage billing systems have, uh, and, and, and long distance carriers have, uh, been in existence as long as co-cuts have.
[38:11.930 --> 38:17.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, they've always used this billing practice of doing collect call billing.
[38:17.470 --> 38:21.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: It must be some sort of loophole with the local phone company that they can get around.
[38:22.010 --> 38:23.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's a loophole that needs to be closed.
[38:23.430 --> 38:28.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's also a system where if you call certain 800 numbers, they bill you.
[38:28.530 --> 38:29.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: They bill you as collect calls.
[38:29.910 --> 38:34.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: You call an 800 toll-free number and you get a phone bill saying that you accepted a collect call.
[38:34.910 --> 38:37.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is completely reprehensible and that's something that has to be stopped.
[38:38.290 --> 38:42.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, if we find out about things like that, we'll certainly, uh, pass them along to you.
[38:43.570 --> 38:44.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, let's take some phone calls.
[38:44.910 --> 38:51.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've got Phiber Optik here for the, uh, second to last time, uh, for, uh, an extended period.
[38:51.550 --> 38:54.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, you found out, uh, more about the place you're going, right?
[38:54.730 --> 39:01.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, basically, uh, I found out roughly where it is and, uh, at least some of the rules and regulations, at least in general.
[39:02.030 --> 39:02.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[39:02.790 --> 39:04.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, if you like, I can go into that.
[39:04.510 --> 39:05.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, go into that.
[39:05.290 --> 39:08.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, particularly as far as what you can be sent.
[39:08.150 --> 39:08.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[39:08.890 --> 39:12.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe we can figure out a way to make sure that things get sent to you.
[39:12.270 --> 39:12.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[39:12.570 --> 39:12.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well...
[39:12.910 --> 39:13.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's kind of restrictive.
[39:13.890 --> 39:20.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, basically, the name of the facility is, uh, Schuylkill, which is, uh, place, uh, apparently in Pennsylvania.
[39:21.190 --> 39:22.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not spelled like Schuylkill.
[39:22.610 --> 39:23.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, it's spelled strangely.
[39:23.990 --> 39:26.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's S-C-H-U-Y-L-L Kill.
[39:27.250 --> 39:27.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Got it.
[39:28.050 --> 39:28.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[39:28.490 --> 39:33.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's, uh, somewhere from what I understand on the outskirts of Philadelphia.
[39:35.030 --> 39:38.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, I think it's near a town called Pottsville.
[39:39.530 --> 39:40.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's near another town, too.
[39:40.730 --> 39:41.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want to tell them what that's called?
[39:41.690 --> 39:44.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's called, it's called, uh, Minersville.
[39:44.410 --> 39:45.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[39:45.150 --> 39:45.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: The other one.
[39:45.650 --> 39:46.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which one?
[39:46.650 --> 39:48.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: The one I told you about yesterday.
[39:48.330 --> 39:49.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: The one you told me about.
[39:49.810 --> 39:50.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it slipped my mind.
[39:51.110 --> 39:52.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Frackville.
[39:52.250 --> 39:52.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Frackville.
[39:52.970 --> 39:53.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[39:53.150 --> 39:53.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[39:53.890 --> 39:54.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[39:54.030 --> 39:58.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, that's, that's funny because there's a, uh, computer hacker magazine out called Phrack.
[39:58.590 --> 40:01.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just, you know, it's kind of poetic justice, I guess, to somebody.
[40:01.530 --> 40:03.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, Frackville, yeah.
[40:03.290 --> 40:06.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think Miners, Pot, and Phrack are a bad combination.
[40:07.030 --> 40:07.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's true.
[40:08.830 --> 40:10.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, uh, tell us about these restrictions.
[40:10.850 --> 40:25.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Basically, um, the, uh, the general restrictions, at least that I've been able to find out without being there first, are, uh, I, I, I found out about, say, what I could receive if someone were to attempt to mail me things.
[40:26.130 --> 40:28.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, the answer in general is nothing.
[40:29.210 --> 40:32.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: What I can receive is money.
[40:32.690 --> 40:45.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: If someone would want to send me checks or, or money orders, they would go into my account and I could probably buy all sorts of lovely things in their commissary, like cigarettes and, uh, reused clothing or something.
[40:46.390 --> 40:53.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, from, from, uh, what I've been told, money orders would be preferable for me because they get cleared right, right away.
[40:54.550 --> 40:59.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, I can't receive anything like cigarettes or food or clothing or anything like that.
[41:00.390 --> 41:10.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: As far as books go, I can't receive hardcover books at all unless they come from, directly from a publisher or from a bookstore.
[41:10.810 --> 41:15.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm assuming it's because they think someone's going to hide something in the, in the binding or something.
[41:16.050 --> 41:20.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so basically what that means is if we want to send you publications, we have to either be a bookstore or a publisher.
[41:21.370 --> 41:21.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[41:21.670 --> 41:27.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or they could be paperback or magazines, but the restriction with that is on the quantity, on the volume sent at once.
[41:28.070 --> 41:28.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: At once, okay.
[41:28.890 --> 41:34.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I believe it was something like three or four paperbacks at once and maybe five or six magazines at once.
[41:35.010 --> 41:46.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if any of our listeners have some friends or contacts at publishers or at bookstores, um, you might want to find out if, uh, they'd be willing to send some things, some material to Phiber while he's in prison so they'll have something to read.
[41:47.470 --> 41:50.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and, of course, we'll have the address in a couple of weeks.
[41:50.510 --> 41:50.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[41:51.010 --> 41:52.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I, I don't have the address on me.
[41:53.030 --> 41:55.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: I found out the actual address of the place, but...
[41:55.410 --> 41:56.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Including your number?
[41:56.310 --> 41:56.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[41:56.730 --> 41:57.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's the thing.
[41:57.470 --> 42:00.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: I won't really know where I've been assigned until I'm actually there.
[42:01.070 --> 42:07.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then I could just write to someone and then I'll have my actual, whatever you want to call it, cell or suite number or something.
[42:08.330 --> 42:09.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, um...
[42:09.050 --> 42:11.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if a suite number would be appropriate, but...
[42:11.110 --> 42:11.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not very sweet.
[42:12.070 --> 42:12.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[42:13.190 --> 42:21.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, the other thing I found out, it's not like in the movies where basically people go to prison and they just sit around waiting for the time to pass.
[42:21.810 --> 42:25.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: They, it's, it, from what it sounds like to me is like a slave labor camp.
[42:26.130 --> 42:30.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: They basically assign you some work detail, which you have to do.
[42:32.070 --> 42:49.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: And from, from what I can tell anyway, at least from, uh, some of the other people who either are currently in one of these similar prison camps or, or have been in the past, anyone who has attempted to refuse their work detail, like for instance, if it's something really crummy,
[42:49.430 --> 43:00.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: they send them, uh, either right across the way or up the road to the real federal penitentiary with the, uh, the, uh, real, uh, bottom of the, of the food chain of society.
[43:00.730 --> 43:02.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they probably have something they want you to do too.
[43:02.710 --> 43:03.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm sure they do.
[43:05.490 --> 43:12.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, um, I hope you, uh, get something that's, uh, that's enjoyable, though I kind of doubt you will.
[43:13.690 --> 43:22.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what, uh, kind of things they have in mind, but, uh, hopefully you'll be writing us, uh, on a weekly basis and we can simply update people as to what's going on.
[43:22.710 --> 43:23.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah.
[43:23.750 --> 43:25.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anything else you want to, uh, express and get to the phones?
[43:26.390 --> 43:34.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, yeah, only, uh, it's rather obvious, but if anyone does intend to, uh, write me letters, they should be aware of the fact that they'll all be read before they get to me.
[43:35.270 --> 43:35.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[43:35.970 --> 43:36.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that, that's all.
[43:37.310 --> 43:39.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so plans for the revolution should not be discussed.
[43:39.970 --> 43:40.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[43:40.390 --> 43:41.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: In the letters.
[43:41.870 --> 43:42.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[43:43.430 --> 43:44.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-279-3400.
[43:45.910 --> 43:47.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's, uh, take some listener phone calls.
[43:47.870 --> 43:48.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening, you're on.
[43:49.070 --> 43:49.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, good evening.
[43:50.030 --> 43:51.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry to hear about Phiber, of course.
[43:51.790 --> 43:54.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there going to be any sort of going-away party for him?
[43:54.430 --> 43:55.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there already has been.
[43:56.010 --> 44:06.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was, there was sort of an echo party for the computer system he works on, but, uh, I imagine next week's show will be kind of, uh, well, we'll try to make it as festive as possible, uh, in light of things.
[44:06.590 --> 44:09.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: But as far as something organized and planned, I don't think so.
[44:09.830 --> 44:11.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Also, uh, two other comments to make.
[44:11.670 --> 44:27.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, first, in regards to the anonymous call rejection, uh, that can be a very real problem with coin, with customer-owned coin-operated telephones, because a lot of those are set up to block caller ID, because the owner of the phone doesn't want people knowing what the number is.
[44:28.290 --> 44:28.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[44:28.590 --> 44:30.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can see a lot of problems from there.
[44:30.910 --> 44:36.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the other, uh, I caught in the paper this morning one of those little New York telephone, uh, tariff notices.
[44:37.090 --> 44:42.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you might be interested in this, New York, NYNEX, rather, is about to offer reverse directory assistance.
[44:43.010 --> 44:43.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[44:43.630 --> 44:43.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[44:44.070 --> 44:44.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's hear about this.
[44:45.030 --> 44:45.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[44:45.650 --> 44:47.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's in this morning's Newsday, of course.
[44:48.090 --> 44:49.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or, as some might call it, Moosday.
[44:50.410 --> 44:52.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, and hidden away in the back of the classified somewhere, right?
[44:52.930 --> 44:56.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's, uh, I tore it out without marking the page down.
[44:57.050 --> 44:59.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can send you a copy of it if you don't see it in the next few days.
[44:59.870 --> 45:14.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: But basically it says, notices hereby given, et cetera, et cetera, effective February 4th, uh, for the introduction of reverse directory assistance, which provides callers to directory assistance with the listed name, listed address, including zip code,
[45:14.850 --> 45:17.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: for a given business or government phone, telephone number.
[45:18.570 --> 45:19.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh...
[45:19.010 --> 45:20.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you tell me what page that's on?
[45:20.630 --> 45:24.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, yeah, I tore it out of the paper, so I don't have the page, but...
[45:24.230 --> 45:26.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, because I have a copy of Newsday here.
[45:26.330 --> 45:32.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's in the New York, New York Newsday, so, uh, there were a few other telco ads on the page before and after it.
[45:32.010 --> 45:35.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: So basically they're offering reverse directory assistance, do they tell what the charge will be?
[45:35.870 --> 45:39.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, or a residential customer, the, there are two key things here.
[45:39.090 --> 45:47.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, first, the request, the charge for each number will be 45 cents, and it's also the ability to obtain the address or of a business or government agency.
[45:48.210 --> 45:53.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: From what it says here, it doesn't look like residential, uh, RDA will be there, at least not immediately.
[45:53.850 --> 45:54.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[45:54.570 --> 45:55.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's interesting.
[45:55.290 --> 45:55.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting start.
[45:55.850 --> 45:56.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Customer name and address.
[45:56.930 --> 45:58.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's something that hackers have been playing with for many years.
[45:59.570 --> 46:17.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, you know, I was thinking this too, uh, we, we've, we've suggested this in the past for people overseas, um, rather than pay the AT&T phenomenal surcharge of, I think, $3.95 for every number that you request, you're better off just calling somebody at random in the country that you want and asking them for a number from a phone book.
[46:17.710 --> 46:28.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can pretty much do the same thing here in, in, in this country and, in fact, in this state, because it costs you less than 45 cents to call anybody in the state, and you simply call up somebody and say, hey, how you doing?
[46:28.490 --> 46:29.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you help me out here?
[46:29.250 --> 46:30.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just need a phone number in your area.
[46:30.670 --> 46:31.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Will you please look it up?
[46:31.510 --> 46:41.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if we all do this for each other, I know it sounds crazy, but if we all do this for each other, then New York Telephone will have absolutely no reason to even provide information anymore, and they can stop ripping us off as far as that goes.
[46:42.250 --> 46:44.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, we'll all get to know each other a lot better.
[46:44.910 --> 46:48.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: But again, we all remember the days when, uh, directory assistance was a freebie.
[46:49.030 --> 46:49.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it was.
[46:50.170 --> 46:59.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then they started with, well, we'll make six, we'll allow you six free, uh, directory assistance calls a month, and that became three free calls a month, and now it's down to zero.
[46:59.410 --> 47:00.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now it's down to zero.
[47:00.170 --> 47:01.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: It won't get any lower than that, I don't think.
[47:01.910 --> 47:04.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, thanks for your show, and best of luck to Farber.
[47:04.170 --> 47:04.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, take care.
[47:05.390 --> 47:16.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: As far as, uh, I was just thinking, while the caller was on the, uh, on the air there, as far as having a going-away party, I was thinking maybe we could do something on, uh, on New Year's, New Year's Eve.
[47:17.330 --> 47:20.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, New Year's, New Year's Eve would be, uh, yeah, like, would be really great.
[47:21.390 --> 47:24.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: We could maybe gather in Times Square or something, and, uh...
[47:24.270 --> 47:25.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Have a, have a small riot.
[47:25.710 --> 47:27.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, no, no, we don't have to necessarily do that.
[47:28.030 --> 47:35.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, okay, people listening, if you want to get together and, uh, see Farber Off, get together in Times Square.
[47:35.590 --> 47:40.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: On New Year's Eve, about maybe 6 p.m., we'll just start, uh, gathering up a crowd.
[47:41.370 --> 47:45.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And around midnight or so, we'll, uh, we'll, you know, I don't know, we'll do something.
[47:45.130 --> 47:46.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll think of something out there.
[47:46.750 --> 47:49.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, um, yeah, that sounds good.
[47:49.490 --> 47:50.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why don't we do that?
[47:51.270 --> 47:51.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[47:51.890 --> 47:53.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, 212-279-3400.
[47:54.910 --> 47:55.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[47:55.570 --> 47:55.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on.
[47:56.890 --> 47:57.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.
[47:57.590 --> 47:57.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi there.
[47:59.050 --> 47:59.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi there.
[47:59.630 --> 48:04.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, back around 10 years ago in the Chicago area code in, uh, 312, there was a phone number I used to play with.
[48:04.630 --> 48:07.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was 398-9999, if I remember right.
[48:07.390 --> 48:09.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: And there were two interesting things about the number.
[48:09.190 --> 48:13.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: One of them was, when you called it, you were instantly connected to elevator music.
[48:14.450 --> 48:24.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I was able to actually confirm that it was Muzak, because I, I tested it out by going to an airport and listening to the music playing over the speaker system there, and sure enough, it was, it was in sync with it.
[48:24.670 --> 48:29.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the, uh, other thing about this phone number was that there was no charge when you called it.
[48:29.670 --> 48:34.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: I could call it from a payphone, and, uh, I'd have to put in a coin to dial it, but the coin would come right back afterwards.
[48:34.470 --> 48:36.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: There was never any ringing signal or anything.
[48:36.410 --> 48:37.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was like it just, uh, connected.
[48:38.630 --> 48:38.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting.
[48:39.450 --> 48:39.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[48:39.690 --> 48:41.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wondering if anyone had any insight on that.
[48:41.630 --> 48:47.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I mean, there are things like that that you come across occasionally, and of course, as soon as everybody figures out what they are, they get disconnected.
[48:48.970 --> 48:56.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I don't know what the purpose of that would be, but, uh, it sounds like the number wasn't supervising, and the phone company just would never bill you for it when you called.
[48:56.630 --> 48:56.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[48:56.950 --> 48:57.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: How long ago was this?
[48:58.030 --> 49:01.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it was, I mean, I remember playing with it around 10 years ago, and I'm not sure when it stopped working.
[49:02.010 --> 49:09.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: I kind of lost interest in it, and I think, uh, they, they eventually split the area code into 312 and 708, and I know by that time it was no longer working.
[49:09.810 --> 49:09.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[49:10.630 --> 49:16.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you'll still find some, uh, some surprises out there, some weird telephone numbers, especially 800 numbers, too.
[49:16.530 --> 49:17.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'll find all kinds of weird things.
[49:18.390 --> 49:18.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[49:19.210 --> 49:20.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[49:20.210 --> 49:20.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Plug to Phiber.
[49:20.770 --> 49:21.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you very much.
[49:21.430 --> 49:21.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, thanks.
[49:22.930 --> 49:23.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening, you're on.
[49:24.350 --> 49:24.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[49:24.910 --> 49:25.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, go ahead.
[49:25.650 --> 49:26.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, I got my radio.
[49:27.930 --> 49:28.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes.
[49:28.950 --> 49:29.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[49:29.690 --> 49:30.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Two things.
[49:30.310 --> 49:33.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in the, uh, telephone business, coin-operated telephones.
[49:33.950 --> 49:34.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[49:34.290 --> 49:39.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of them are today, are, are billing people, and a lot of them do play a game.
[49:39.910 --> 49:40.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: You've got to be careful.
[49:40.630 --> 49:43.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of them are charging as much as $3 a minute for collect calls.
[49:44.010 --> 49:44.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[49:44.670 --> 49:52.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: What they're using is interconnect companies that just operate as, uh, service bureaus, and this is because they've broken up the phone company.
[49:52.930 --> 50:03.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, this is one of the problems when you no longer have one entity responsible for everything from A to Z, from one end of the circuit to the other end.
[50:03.030 --> 50:03.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[50:03.870 --> 50:12.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, I mean, with competition, doesn't it make sense that if somebody is, is ripping people off, that there's another company there that's not ripping people off and everybody will flock over to them?
[50:12.850 --> 50:15.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: People are not smart enough to understand that.
[50:15.310 --> 50:20.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: The average person today who uses a telephone doesn't really realize what's happening.
[50:21.230 --> 50:21.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[50:22.010 --> 50:34.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: What we really need today, uh, is to have not, we need less regulation, but we need to let the phone company get back into a lot of motor services because when you deal with the phone company, you're able to deal with one person.
[50:35.010 --> 50:38.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: For an example, say you make a phone call and you get disconnected.
[50:38.650 --> 50:39.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who's responsible?
[50:39.730 --> 50:45.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it the local company, the long distance company, or the other company on the other side, the other local CEO?
[50:45.570 --> 50:46.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[50:46.530 --> 50:50.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: But at the same time, if the phone company does something unfair, where can you turn?
[50:50.450 --> 50:51.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can't go anywhere else.
[50:51.570 --> 50:53.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yes, that's very true.
[50:53.610 --> 50:54.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: That is a problem.
[50:55.090 --> 50:57.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: What really, I think, went wrong is this.
[50:57.170 --> 50:59.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: They should never have broken up the phone company.
[50:59.130 --> 51:08.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: What they should have done is stop the phone company from their bad practices of not letting companies such as MCI and some of the other long distance carriers from connecting up.
[51:09.170 --> 51:12.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: They should have been indicated that they should have been allowed to connect up.
[51:12.630 --> 51:13.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the big mistake.
[51:13.870 --> 51:15.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Breaking up the phone company was a big mistake.
[51:15.750 --> 51:18.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: They tried to over remedy the situation.
[51:18.530 --> 51:20.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: In doing so, they really screwed up.
[51:21.590 --> 51:23.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I mean, that's one line of thinking.
[51:23.810 --> 51:26.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't happen to agree with it myself, but I know a lot of people do.
[51:26.390 --> 51:29.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of people think the phone company should have stayed as one monolithic unit.
[51:30.070 --> 51:30.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[51:30.830 --> 51:34.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: That possibility, especially with today's technology, really frightens me.
[51:35.130 --> 51:42.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think the phone company should have been broken up earlier and a lot more in an organized way so that people understood exactly what was going on.
[51:42.330 --> 51:43.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right now, I agree with you.
[51:43.510 --> 51:47.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have total chaos and no real rhyme or reason to anything.
[51:47.270 --> 51:49.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the average person does not understand how to make a phone call.
[51:49.490 --> 51:51.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why they're being...
[51:51.870 --> 51:56.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: The cost went back in 83 or 82, when they had the discussions.
[51:58.110 --> 52:03.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people said this would cut the cost of phone service to the average person.
[52:03.810 --> 52:04.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: This has not.
[52:04.710 --> 52:06.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: The average person is paying a lot more.
[52:09.190 --> 52:12.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people are paying a lot more today.
[52:12.670 --> 52:17.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's really what's happening in a sense, is that the small person is getting ripped off.
[52:17.350 --> 52:23.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: The larger companies like Xerox or IBM, who use service folk, they're getting a benefit of this.
[52:24.210 --> 52:28.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the average Joe on the street is really getting raped through the coals.
[52:29.290 --> 52:33.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I see people go up to a payphone, they put a quarter in, and they lose their quarter.
[52:34.050 --> 52:34.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who do they complain to?
[52:35.050 --> 52:36.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some personal person.
[52:36.830 --> 52:46.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you try to call a beep, a number of ID phones, or what you call 917, or an amazing timing, and it's a total... Or they cut off Touch-Tones after you connect.
[52:46.530 --> 52:47.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's a problem.
[52:47.770 --> 52:50.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: What we need, I think, is some more accountability.
[52:50.230 --> 52:59.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think the Public Service Commission has to have a few more people working on this particular issue, so that people know where they can call, and they can complain and get something done.
[52:59.250 --> 53:02.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Even the Public Service Commission doesn't know what's happening.
[53:02.150 --> 53:02.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know.
[53:02.490 --> 53:02.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't.
[53:02.850 --> 53:03.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think they have a couple of people.
[53:03.950 --> 53:05.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not because they're at fault.
[53:05.190 --> 53:10.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just that the technology is rapidly growing, and it's outpacing the people who work at the Public Service Commission.
[53:10.810 --> 53:19.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, if... I think if more people write to them, like one of our listeners did, I think you'll start getting some more attention to it, because they'll say, hey, wait a minute.
[53:19.390 --> 53:21.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Something's going on out there, and we should know about it.
[53:21.650 --> 53:22.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for your call.
[53:22.510 --> 53:22.650]  All right.
[53:22.710 --> 53:23.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Have a good day.
[53:23.290 --> 53:23.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[53:24.350 --> 53:30.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of our listeners are very educated as far as this kind of thing goes, and hopefully we can spread that education to the populace.
[53:31.490 --> 53:32.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[53:32.150 --> 53:32.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on.
[53:32.930 --> 53:33.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi.
[53:33.410 --> 53:33.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi.
[53:33.810 --> 53:34.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi.
[53:34.010 --> 53:34.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you?
[53:34.530 --> 53:34.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[53:35.030 --> 53:35.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[53:36.210 --> 53:42.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Earlier in the show, when you were talking about 9x charges you for an itemized local phone bill?
[53:42.870 --> 53:43.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[53:43.370 --> 53:43.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[53:44.310 --> 53:47.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that something you can just request, and you pay every month, and they'll send you a... Yes.
[53:48.030 --> 53:52.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: For $1.50 a month, you can get a list of, uh, of the calls that you, that you make.
[53:53.070 --> 54:00.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Depending on your area, some areas don't have in your exchange for some reason, um, even though they're perfectly capable of doing it.
[54:00.890 --> 54:03.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, other areas have every single phone number that you call.
[54:04.230 --> 54:06.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's, um, it really depends on where you are.
[54:07.110 --> 54:09.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because I once had a problem with my bill.
[54:09.150 --> 54:14.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wanted to verify it, and I just called them up and asked them for the itemized bill, and they just sent it to me for free.
[54:14.930 --> 54:15.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[54:15.370 --> 54:18.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they'll do it for, for maybe a one-time thing if you have a problem with it.
[54:18.550 --> 54:22.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, if you want to get it every month without fail, that's, uh, that's what you have to do.
[54:22.590 --> 54:31.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, uh, speaking of 9x and New York Telephone and all that, I was in Queens, and I saw my first public telephone that was, only said 9x on it, didn't say New York Telephone on it at all.
[54:31.690 --> 54:31.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[54:31.950 --> 54:32.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: New faceplates and everything?
[54:33.010 --> 54:34.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was all completely changed.
[54:34.630 --> 54:40.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't know if you've seen their vans lately, but they have these sort of, um, like, sort of stickers on the side that say, just call us 9x.
[54:40.330 --> 54:41.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's the, uh, that's a new logo.
[54:42.410 --> 54:42.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[54:42.550 --> 54:43.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just call us 9x, yeah.
[54:44.110 --> 54:49.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, uh, we have a few other things to call them, but, uh, that's, uh, that's one of the things I guess we'll have to call them.
[54:50.110 --> 54:51.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[54:51.190 --> 54:51.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, thanks a lot.
[54:52.270 --> 54:53.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think we have time for one more phone call.
[54:54.170 --> 54:54.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening, you're on.
[54:55.850 --> 54:56.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, hi, good evening.
[54:57.310 --> 54:57.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[54:58.370 --> 54:59.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, please turn on your radio.
[54:59.790 --> 55:00.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, hi, good evening.
[55:01.790 --> 55:02.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh... Yes.
[55:02.830 --> 55:07.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to find out, um, what's happening... I have two questions, first of all.
[55:08.090 --> 55:08.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[55:08.330 --> 55:12.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to find out what's happening to the nickel trick in New York City.
[55:13.930 --> 55:17.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: The nickel trick, um, well, what, what exactly is the nickel trick?
[55:17.690 --> 55:21.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, uh, I thought you might know of it or have, have heard of it...
[55:21.850 --> 55:25.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've heard of it, but I'd like to hear what, what, first of all, your explanation is, and then, uh...
[55:25.350 --> 55:46.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I know that it's been a, uh, it's been in, uh, an old lore, in the old lore of, uh, bicycle messengers throughout the city, and it's using a quarter and nickel in combination to essentially make, uh, a local call on a, on a New York tell, uh, with,
[55:46.110 --> 55:46.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: uh, nickel.
[55:47.730 --> 55:54.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Using a nickel, and it's, uh, just a way, uh, it's not, uh, using tools or anything on the phone.
[55:54.230 --> 56:04.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a, it's just a technique, a way of using the coins in an order to, uh, to, uh, have the, uh, the call cost five cents.
[56:04.670 --> 56:06.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, uh, Phiber, you want to go into some detail on this?
[56:07.170 --> 56:07.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sure, why not?
[56:08.430 --> 56:09.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is this an urban legend, or is this true?
[56:09.990 --> 56:27.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, um, I, I, I've never verified this myself, but according to theory, on, um, older, uh, mechanical payphones, and you can tell that they're a mechanical payphone just by turning the coin return, uh, slot, and you'll hear a metallic sound.
[56:27.770 --> 56:38.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: On these such payphones, you will notice that the switch hook is an actual mechanical switch hook, and in the newer payphones, this is not true.
[56:38.530 --> 56:39.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nothing, nothing is mechanical.
[56:39.850 --> 56:52.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, uh, when you, when you press the switch hook or the coin return slot, you're, you're, there's actual, there's actually intelligent circuitry in the phone, and you're not actually affecting any relays directly.
[56:52.650 --> 57:05.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: As far as the nickel trick went, to my knowledge, one would first insert a quarter into the phone so that the phone was basically pacified that a quarter was put in.
[57:05.430 --> 57:16.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Then they would proceed to slowly hang up the switch hook gradually until the quarter was ejected, but yet they didn't really completely hang up.
[57:16.590 --> 57:22.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you can tell that you're doing this because you can hear a faint dial tone still in the earpiece.
[57:23.230 --> 57:28.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you sort of have, if you find the right spot, you'll sort of have the switch hook halfway down.
[57:29.370 --> 57:35.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now what you do that you have your, now that you have your quarterback, you insert a nickel and release the switch hook.
[57:36.490 --> 57:47.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: So now you hear the normal dial tone, the, uh, the coin hopper in the phone is full, and that supposedly is, is the nickel trick.
[57:48.490 --> 57:50.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, uh, I'm sorry we're out of time.
[57:50.870 --> 57:53.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can't go into more detail on that particular, uh, issue.
[57:53.790 --> 57:57.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, one of many tricks involving phone company lore.
[57:58.190 --> 57:59.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, that's our program for this week.
[57:59.810 --> 58:02.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll be back next week for Phiber's last show.
[58:02.430 --> 58:05.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, please make a point of, uh, of listening.
[58:05.450 --> 58:08.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: It'll be, uh, a pretty important, uh, event, I think.
[58:08.950 --> 58:11.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, until then, have a good week.
[58:12.210 --> 58:14.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Stay tuned for the WBAI Evening News.
[58:14.630 --> 58:15.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[58:15.710 --> 58:15.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good night.