Off The Hook - 1994-01-12

[01:11.340 --> 01:12.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: And good evening, everybody.
[01:13.060 --> 01:14.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Off The Hook.
[01:14.400 --> 01:15.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:15.680 --> 01:20.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're here with you tonight for two hours because it's a very exciting fundraiser.
[01:20.260 --> 01:26.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can hear people making all kinds of commotion and noise in our tally room because it's our...
[01:26.560 --> 01:29.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how do you say something happens three times a year?
[01:29.900 --> 01:34.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is the first time this year it's happening anyway, our tri-annual or what have you marathon.
[01:35.400 --> 01:48.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we need to raise money to keep this radio station going, to keep the station bringing you valuable information that we bring you over the years, since the early 1960s.
[01:49.400 --> 01:54.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we intend to continue to do throughout the 1990s.
[01:54.460 --> 01:56.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because, well, somebody has to do it.
[02:12.800 --> 02:15.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know about dancing fast, but you do have to learn.
[02:15.320 --> 02:16.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to learn all kinds of things.
[02:17.360 --> 02:21.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: And a program like Off The Hook teaches you all kinds of things.
[02:23.940 --> 02:26.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: And particularly technological issues.
[02:27.160 --> 02:31.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Particularly new little toys that the phone company is coming up with.
[02:31.700 --> 02:41.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: And new strange devices that we're all going to have to learn to live with as we go into the next century.
[02:42.020 --> 02:44.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: The Internet is at our throats.
[02:47.800 --> 02:49.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Multinational corporations want a big piece of it now.
[02:50.160 --> 02:52.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: But the people got there first.
[02:52.540 --> 02:53.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: How's it all going to work, you know?
[02:54.300 --> 02:58.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: If things were done a little bit differently, it wouldn't look like it does today.
[03:00.060 --> 03:00.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.
[03:01.380 --> 03:08.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, with the knowledge that we have, we can keep things in a rather democratic way.
[03:08.340 --> 03:10.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, everybody, uh...
[03:11.020 --> 03:12.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: has the power of the individual.
[03:14.020 --> 03:16.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or we can turn things over and...
[03:16.380 --> 03:20.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: have it be like our telephone system, where you charge for every little thing.
[03:21.920 --> 03:23.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything is possible.
[03:23.320 --> 03:24.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's all up to us.
[03:26.040 --> 03:28.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: One thing I've learned is that, uh...
[03:28.220 --> 03:29.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: we have an awful lot of power.
[03:33.140 --> 03:34.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, throughout the, uh...
[03:34.740 --> 03:38.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: two hours that we're on tonight, we're going to be, uh...
[03:38.020 --> 03:40.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: going over some things that, uh...
[03:40.460 --> 03:43.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: happened in the world of technology.
[03:43.880 --> 03:46.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're also going to be telling you the fiber optic story.
[03:48.540 --> 03:55.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you, uh, listened last week, you heard the last show with fiber before he was sent to prison.
[03:56.360 --> 03:58.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, well, now he's there.
[03:58.600 --> 03:59.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we took him there.
[03:59.700 --> 04:00.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's quite a story.
[04:00.900 --> 04:04.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll be telling you all about that in the, um...
[04:04.540 --> 04:05.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: next, uh...
[04:05.460 --> 04:06.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: hour or so.
[04:07.340 --> 04:08.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh...
[04:08.020 --> 04:16.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: hopefully we'll be getting a lot of people calling in, showing their support to WBAI to keep us going for, uh...
[04:16.460 --> 04:17.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: the next year or so.
[04:18.000 --> 04:19.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or however long it takes.
[04:20.580 --> 04:23.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our number is 212-279-3400.
[04:23.420 --> 04:25.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the number we need you to call for pledges.
[04:25.520 --> 04:27.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have a special offer for, um...
[04:27.660 --> 04:28.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: for people listening to Off the Hook.
[04:28.820 --> 04:31.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, this is the only time we're going to be on during the marathon.
[04:31.220 --> 04:33.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: So this offer only holds for tonight.
[04:34.940 --> 04:35.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
[04:36.260 --> 04:36.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh...
[04:36.960 --> 04:42.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: the offer is a subscription to 2600 Magazine for a pledge of $75.
[04:44.040 --> 04:47.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you call at 212-279-3400.
[04:47.640 --> 04:49.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not so much, uh...
[04:49.320 --> 04:50.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: calling to get a subscription.
[04:51.140 --> 04:53.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's calling to help out the radio station.
[04:53.140 --> 05:01.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's calling to make sure that we're here and that we can continue to bring you important news events, important, uh...
[05:01.320 --> 05:04.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: technological advances, and all kinds of things that, uh...
[05:04.900 --> 05:06.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: you just wouldn't hear anyplace else.
[05:06.680 --> 05:07.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, you wouldn't.
[05:08.180 --> 05:12.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I challenge anybody to find another place that brings you this kind of information.
[05:14.400 --> 05:15.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, that's our phone number.
[05:16.460 --> 05:17.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh...
[05:17.280 --> 05:20.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: hopefully we'll get some people calling in fairly quickly.
[05:21.480 --> 05:22.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our, uh...
[05:22.940 --> 05:24.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: grand total so far is zero.
[05:25.280 --> 05:25.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh...
[05:25.840 --> 05:28.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: we're gonna be looking at that, uh...
[05:28.600 --> 05:29.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: hopefully not at that.
[05:29.800 --> 05:31.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're looking at the number that, uh...
[05:31.120 --> 05:33.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: will be rapidly changing over the next two hours.
[05:34.960 --> 05:35.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[05:35.700 --> 05:40.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Time for us to take a look at what's been happening around the world.
[05:43.220 --> 05:44.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, um...
[05:44.500 --> 05:46.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: all kinds of neat things have been going on.
[05:46.440 --> 05:48.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you read the papers, if you, uh...
[05:48.400 --> 05:50.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: play around with your phone, you'll learn stuff yourself.
[05:52.940 --> 05:54.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take a look.
[05:55.680 --> 05:59.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is from the Washington Post of December 26th.
[05:59.900 --> 06:03.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: Entitled, 1993, The Year of the Weird.
[06:04.080 --> 06:12.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: The Syracuse Herald Journal has reported that its telephone hotline featuring excerpts of the presidential debates last fall was successful.
[06:12.680 --> 06:14.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Except for one glitch.
[06:14.660 --> 06:21.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Ross Perot's voice sometimes hit a pitch that mimicked a certain telephone tone that automatically shut down the whole system.
[06:23.680 --> 06:24.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: The Washington Post.
[06:25.040 --> 06:25.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not kidding.
[06:27.820 --> 06:30.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine if he was president how many times that would be happening.
[06:31.120 --> 06:31.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: How about this?
[06:31.960 --> 06:34.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: This comes from The Guardian of December 21st.
[06:36.120 --> 06:43.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: They report the conviction of a male nurse who hacked into a hospital's computer system and modified entries including prescriptions.
[06:44.480 --> 06:52.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of annoying here because they refer to the person throughout as a hacker which any of us who are hackers ourselves know is completely bogus.
[06:53.280 --> 06:59.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: They say the hacker prescribed drugs normally used to treat heart disease and high blood pressure to a nine-year-old with meningitis.
[07:02.480 --> 07:06.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: He prescribed antibiotics to a patient in a geriatric ward.
[07:07.340 --> 07:10.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: These drugs were administered to the patient with no apparent adverse reaction.
[07:10.780 --> 07:12.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: He scheduled an unnecessary x-ray for a patient.
[07:13.020 --> 07:14.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: He recommended a discharge for another patient.
[07:16.580 --> 07:26.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: The hacker gained access to the computer system after learning the password by observing a doctor who was having trouble logging in.
[07:29.020 --> 07:32.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: He qualified as a nurse in 1989.
[07:33.140 --> 07:38.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: He is reported to have undergone a considerable personality change as the result of a road accident in 1984.
[07:39.540 --> 07:49.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: As well as developing a fascination for computers and other high-tech equipment, he had apparently developed a lack of sensitivity to the consequences of his actions.
[07:50.680 --> 08:00.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing that a lot of computer hackers are accused of having or not having compassion and concern for the consequences of their actions.
[08:00.380 --> 08:03.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: But you won't find hackers doing these kinds of things.
[08:03.200 --> 08:10.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: You won't find hackers breaking into hospitals and changing dosages on computer systems, on patients.
[08:11.120 --> 08:11.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: You just won't find...
[08:11.980 --> 08:17.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because vast, vast majority of hackers have some sense of value.
[08:18.020 --> 08:21.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: There is a hacker community out there and that sense of value is instilled there.
[08:22.280 --> 08:23.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at this story.
[08:23.620 --> 08:24.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Who did this?
[08:24.340 --> 08:24.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Was it a hacker?
[08:25.060 --> 08:26.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was a male nurse.
[08:27.040 --> 08:30.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess his sex is kind of irrelevant, but he was a nurse.
[08:30.840 --> 08:33.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: A nurse that had access to the computer system.
[08:34.920 --> 08:35.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: No hacker.
[08:36.100 --> 08:38.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Just somebody with a grudge.
[08:38.680 --> 08:40.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody with inside information.
[08:40.840 --> 08:42.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who knew how to work the system.
[08:42.640 --> 08:44.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody perhaps who had contempt for his job.
[08:46.100 --> 08:47.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it boils down to.
[08:47.800 --> 08:56.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever you see a newspaper article like that where they call such a person a hacker, call them up and give them a piece of your mind.
[08:59.020 --> 09:03.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, he pleaded guilty to unauthorized modification of computer records.
[09:04.180 --> 09:07.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: He offered no explanation for his actions but denied any malicious intent.
[09:07.980 --> 09:09.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: He was jailed for 12 months.
[09:09.220 --> 09:11.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, don't you think that's kind of ironic?
[09:12.020 --> 09:22.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: This guy that could have killed somebody literally could have killed somebody prescribing medicine that shouldn't be taken by certain people, discharging people that shouldn't be discharged, performing all kinds of pranks with people's lives.
[09:23.700 --> 09:44.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: He gets the same amount of prison time as the person you've heard on this radio program for so long who everybody said didn't do anything malicious, didn't do anything to hurt anybody, didn't do anything to damage anything, just was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
[09:44.960 --> 09:46.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how it works.
[09:48.340 --> 09:55.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: As I said, we'll be getting into that story, that saga of fiber optic going to prison.
[09:55.920 --> 09:58.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: and we'll let you know how things are going.
[10:00.160 --> 10:01.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: What else is happening?
[10:01.940 --> 10:08.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, three Britons have been charged with conspiracy and a 2.5 million pound Europe-wide credit card fraud.
[10:08.920 --> 10:10.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's about 3.7 million dollars.
[10:11.700 --> 10:22.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: The article says that the Birmingham men are accused of having used fake credit cards and they stole expensive products in France, Britain, Belgium, and the Netherlands.
[10:22.940 --> 10:25.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: apparently other arrests have been promised.
[10:26.080 --> 10:27.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: See, in England, they promise arrests.
[10:28.520 --> 10:29.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're good on that.
[10:30.440 --> 10:43.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: And once again, we see that one of the world's most frequently used network access control tokens, namely the common credit card, is wholly inadequate to protect the public and the banking industry against fraud.
[10:45.920 --> 10:46.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, how about this?
[10:46.820 --> 10:50.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's a story from Alan Wexelblatt.
[10:50.840 --> 10:52.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a contribution to the Risks Digest.
[10:53.520 --> 10:59.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those stories that you could swear you've heard before, but you know you're going to hear it again.
[11:00.280 --> 11:03.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: My bank has installed one of those bank-by-phone services.
[11:04.400 --> 11:12.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: You call up, give you a 10-digit account number, and the password is the last four digits of your social security number, and off you go.
[11:14.400 --> 11:27.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: At the moment, the transactions available are purely informational, like you can get your balance, you can get the last five checks that cleared, that kind of thing, but they say they plan to allow operational transactions, like paying your bills or transferring money,
[11:28.040 --> 11:28.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: real soon.
[11:29.460 --> 11:34.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: The problems of this kind of system have been well covered here in the past and on this radio program.
[11:35.540 --> 11:40.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: What I need help with is also a known problem, but in this case, it appears to be particularly severe.
[11:40.980 --> 11:51.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: In this system, if you time out too often or enter incorrect information twice, you are transferred to a human being who is supposed to help you figure out the system.
[11:52.640 --> 11:55.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: In my case, I encountered this human being twice.
[11:55.860 --> 12:05.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: The first time, I had misunderstood which subset of the account digits they wanted, and when I got to the human, he could apparently see the digits I had typed, and he told me the correct digits to use for my account.
[12:06.840 --> 12:07.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: How helpful, I thought.
[12:08.360 --> 12:12.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: I then called back and tried the new digit set, and it still failed twice.
[12:12.540 --> 12:19.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: I talked to another human being who revealed that not only did he have on his screen my account number, but also, he had the four-digit password.
[12:21.260 --> 12:22.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: My four-digit password.
[12:22.820 --> 12:25.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, he had the one that I had typed in correctly.
[12:26.280 --> 12:33.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Turns out there was a data transcription error in my account, and they had a wrong social security number from me, thus the password was different than I expected.
[12:33.800 --> 12:40.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: The helpful gentleman with no confirmation of who I was provided the correct four digits to me.
[12:41.000 --> 12:43.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I wasn't even trying to do social engineering.
[12:44.380 --> 12:54.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what I'd like to see done here is some sort of form of protest, some sort of form of expression of alarm.
[12:55.020 --> 12:56.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, how do we do this?
[12:56.820 --> 13:04.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: To whom within the bank or government or Securities and Exchange Commission and Better Business Bureau, who do you send that letter to?
[13:04.660 --> 13:18.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I explain to them that A, they have to guard this information at least as closely as bank card pins, B, they should provide some way for me to change my password, and C, they have to train their people a whole lot better.
[13:18.440 --> 13:24.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: At the moment, I'm tempted to rant and rave at them, but I know a calm, well-thought-out, detailed response is more likely to get the results I want.
[13:25.280 --> 13:26.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Should I start off with a phone call?
[13:27.740 --> 13:31.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Has anyone on this list dealt successfully with similar problems?
[13:31.400 --> 13:34.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the question asked on the risks list and risks digest.
[13:35.280 --> 13:38.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know people out there listening have had similar escapades.
[13:38.560 --> 13:45.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've had similar problems like this, where you call the phone company and you find them, even though you're authorized to get this information, they're telling you way too much.
[13:46.440 --> 13:48.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're saying, yeah, this is your address, right?
[13:48.460 --> 13:49.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is your phone number.
[13:49.840 --> 13:51.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is where you work.
[13:51.660 --> 13:54.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: That special password that you have, that's what this is, correct?
[13:55.460 --> 13:59.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you're not going to say no because it's correct information, but you have to wonder, you know?
[14:00.060 --> 14:09.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Someone else comes in there and says, you know, I need information on this particular account and they just happen to believe that the right person is calling in.
[14:10.160 --> 14:17.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we know from experience how much information they can get and once you get a lot of information on somebody, you have a lot of power over their lives.
[14:17.960 --> 14:18.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can control things.
[14:18.960 --> 14:19.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can change things.
[14:19.860 --> 14:20.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can turn their phone off.
[14:20.940 --> 14:22.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can change their address.
[14:23.140 --> 14:23.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Change their name.
[14:24.060 --> 14:24.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?
[14:25.840 --> 14:26.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything's possible.
[14:27.120 --> 14:28.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, we have to have protection.
[14:29.400 --> 14:37.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's those of you out there, those of us out there, people out there that understand this, but there's a lot of people that don't understand this.
[14:37.200 --> 14:40.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people that think that we should just keep quiet about the whole thing.
[14:40.140 --> 14:41.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: We shouldn't be talking about it.
[14:41.440 --> 14:48.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: We shouldn't be revealing security holes and showing people how easy it is to get information, how easy it is to manipulate information.
[14:50.940 --> 14:52.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's not the way it works.
[14:52.480 --> 14:55.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the way it works for any kind of whistleblowing organization.
[14:56.560 --> 15:01.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: And hackers, as well as people at WBAI, share that.
[15:01.820 --> 15:05.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because when we see something, we talk about it.
[15:05.120 --> 15:07.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we hope our listeners are the same way.
[15:07.300 --> 15:19.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: We hope that those of you out there that listen to these programs, especially the programs on Wednesday night, we try to bring you things that nobody else thinks to bring you.
[15:19.220 --> 15:24.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Things that nobody else imagines are important.
[15:25.280 --> 15:27.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Things that affect you.
[15:27.560 --> 15:28.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Things that affect other people.
[15:31.740 --> 15:35.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: And lots of times it takes quite a bit of digging to figure all this out.
[15:35.440 --> 15:39.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes you have to try and crack the system yourself to see where the weaknesses are.
[15:40.020 --> 15:42.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: And when we do that, we let you know.
[15:44.340 --> 15:46.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: But now we need something back from our listeners.
[15:46.520 --> 15:50.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: We need to hear from people out there that have been affected by all this.
[15:50.840 --> 15:53.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: And our number is 212-279-3400.
[15:53.500 --> 15:56.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our total... I don't think this is our show total.
[15:57.000 --> 15:59.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's $45,095.
[16:00.080 --> 16:03.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, someone tell me that that's not our show total.
[16:03.320 --> 16:05.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because if it is, I can just stop right here.
[16:06.880 --> 16:08.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I don't think it is.
[16:08.640 --> 16:13.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think our show total is still either zero or not much more than that.
[16:13.480 --> 16:18.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: So perhaps the people in Tally Room can help us out there and keep us updated.
[16:18.120 --> 16:21.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: But we need to bring in a lot of new listeners today.
[16:22.440 --> 16:26.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of new members to radio station WBAI.
[16:27.100 --> 16:28.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can help us out.
[16:28.860 --> 16:30.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can help us out tremendously.
[16:30.780 --> 16:32.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: And believe me, this is the case.
[16:32.240 --> 16:36.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because we survive only, only because of our listeners.
[16:36.820 --> 16:41.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could look at radio and say, well, what radio station wouldn't survive because of its listeners?
[16:42.940 --> 16:44.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's weird, you know?
[16:44.080 --> 16:47.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: You tune down the commercial dial and you'll hear so much repetition.
[16:47.720 --> 16:50.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: You wonder, who's listening to this garbage?
[16:50.300 --> 16:51.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Who is it that supports this?
[16:51.700 --> 16:53.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, why is this crap on the air?
[16:54.540 --> 16:59.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they don't really have to deal with listeners on a one-to-one basis.
[16:59.320 --> 17:00.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: They deal with sponsors.
[17:00.700 --> 17:03.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully the listeners hear the sponsors and buy the products.
[17:03.780 --> 17:05.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how it all works.
[17:06.440 --> 17:09.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you listen to WBAI, you've noticed that we don't have commercials.
[17:10.600 --> 17:11.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have any commercials.
[17:12.140 --> 17:15.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the way we get our support is through our listeners.
[17:15.440 --> 17:17.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[17:17.400 --> 17:27.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: A pledge of $75 gets you a year of $2,600, the Hacker Quarterly, which is an interesting publication, to say the least.
[17:27.520 --> 17:29.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: One that gets quite a few people angry.
[17:30.440 --> 17:34.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: It gets a lot of notoriety for things that are uncovered in its pages.
[17:35.280 --> 17:36.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's 10 years old.
[17:37.000 --> 17:38.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: 10 years old this year.
[17:38.220 --> 17:39.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty amazing in and of itself.
[17:41.340 --> 17:44.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Any pledge, though, will be able to help out the radio station.
[17:44.800 --> 17:46.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the minimum pledge is not $75.
[17:47.400 --> 17:50.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: The minimum pledge is really whatever it is you can afford.
[17:51.200 --> 17:52.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[17:52.880 --> 17:56.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody that calls in and pledges will get the WBAI folio for a year.
[17:56.780 --> 18:00.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the only way to really find out what's on the radio station.
[18:01.000 --> 18:02.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: 24 hours a day.
[18:02.500 --> 18:04.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[18:04.580 --> 18:07.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think our lights are burned out because not one of them is lit.
[18:07.960 --> 18:11.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd sure like to see some action out there.
[18:11.380 --> 18:15.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know there's lots of people that call in and share information and get information from this program.
[18:15.980 --> 18:20.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you want us to continue to be able to do this, we have to have support.
[18:20.500 --> 18:23.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a sad fact, but it's a true fact.
[18:24.800 --> 18:34.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we've had support in the past from our listeners, from all kinds of people throughout New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and anywhere else our signal happens to trespass into.
[18:35.280 --> 18:37.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[18:37.940 --> 18:45.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to fill up the phone lines, get people calling in, and helping us to remain strong.
[18:46.620 --> 18:51.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of what we bring you simply would not be heard anyplace else.
[18:53.300 --> 18:54.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing is more true than that.
[18:55.640 --> 19:03.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the only place where you can hear information about computer systems and telephone systems in the manner in which we bring it to you.
[19:03.700 --> 19:04.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: For instance, I'll give you an example.
[19:06.140 --> 19:11.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Last week, we did something with some of our listeners.
[19:11.060 --> 19:12.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: We had a call in.
[19:12.780 --> 19:15.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: And let me see if I can get a line here.
[19:16.960 --> 19:20.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: We also have all kinds of technical challenges here.
[19:20.740 --> 19:23.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, we're trying to get a line.
[19:24.480 --> 19:26.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the easiest thing in the world.
[19:26.780 --> 19:28.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[19:28.360 --> 19:31.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please fill up those phone lines while we're trying to figure out the phone here.
[19:31.840 --> 19:32.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: And do we have a line?
[19:33.220 --> 19:33.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we have a line.
[19:34.700 --> 19:39.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Last week, one of our listeners said, why don't you try calling this particular number?
[19:40.840 --> 19:41.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's try it again.
[19:44.880 --> 19:46.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think this will work this time.
[20:01.570 --> 20:03.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it?
[20:03.130 --> 20:10.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that is something that you get now if you dial 311 from many, many places.
[20:10.750 --> 20:11.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: 311.
[20:11.350 --> 20:14.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I've tried this in the 516 area code.
[20:14.890 --> 20:16.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've tried it in the 212 area code.
[20:17.630 --> 20:19.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you get similar things.
[20:19.550 --> 20:21.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the tones are a little bit longer.
[20:21.150 --> 20:25.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what that is, that's called TDD data.
[20:25.810 --> 20:27.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or, I guess, just TDD.
[20:29.050 --> 20:33.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of an ancient way of transcribing information.
[20:33.490 --> 20:36.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of deaf people use those particular devices.
[20:37.290 --> 20:48.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: To give you an idea of the speed of this thing, our current barred rates are something like, you know, 2400, 9600, 14.4, and beyond.
[20:49.230 --> 20:52.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a barred rate of 45.
[20:52.730 --> 20:53.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: Not 4500.
[20:54.250 --> 20:54.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: 45.
[20:55.650 --> 20:56.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: 45.
[20:56.750 --> 20:57.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: Two digits.
[20:57.530 --> 20:57.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[20:58.010 --> 20:58.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how slow it is.
[20:58.730 --> 21:00.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, why?
[21:00.370 --> 21:06.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Why in heaven's name is this suddenly popping up everywhere you go when you dial 311?
[21:06.310 --> 21:07.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Why is that?
[21:08.370 --> 21:09.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have an answer.
[21:09.970 --> 21:10.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have an answer.
[21:10.870 --> 21:12.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, the phone lines are full.
[21:12.210 --> 21:12.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: Are they really full?
[21:13.170 --> 21:16.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or is this just somebody with a 10-line phone pulling a gag on us?
[21:17.370 --> 21:17.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[21:18.130 --> 21:19.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody is calling in.
[21:19.950 --> 21:21.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[21:21.550 --> 21:22.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: Call now and you'll get a busy signal.
[21:22.890 --> 21:23.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good sign.
[21:24.030 --> 21:26.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't call.
[21:26.570 --> 21:27.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: It means that you should try again.
[21:27.730 --> 21:29.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, you can try...
[21:29.230 --> 21:30.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, don't do that.
[21:30.650 --> 21:32.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: You see, we'll also tell you about the rip-offs.
[21:32.270 --> 21:39.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say dial star 66 and camp on and then your phone will ring back with our number and you'll pick it up and our phone will ring.
[21:39.190 --> 21:41.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's that little service that the phone company provides.
[21:41.650 --> 21:44.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, they charge you 75 cents for it whether or not it works.
[21:45.170 --> 21:47.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just a little too much for my taste.
[21:47.410 --> 21:49.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, don't do that but call us anyway.
[21:50.950 --> 21:52.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[21:52.330 --> 22:00.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: You see, when is the last time you can think of a radio show or a TV show that says don't use this service that the phone company is introducing because it's a rip-off.
[22:01.210 --> 22:02.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason why.
[22:02.490 --> 22:04.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it's because we're smarter than they are?
[22:04.330 --> 22:05.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe we are but that's not the reason.
[22:06.210 --> 22:10.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: The reason is they will feel the heat if they say that.
[22:10.290 --> 22:16.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: If anybody at, say, Channel 6 and I said 6 because we don't have a Channel 6 and I don't want to offend anybody at Channel 2.
[22:16.790 --> 22:34.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: If they were to say that the phone company is ripping you off don't use this this is very bad and they continually told you about all the rip-offs the phone company issued on a regular basis well, it's possible that 9x might not advertise as much on that particular radio station.
[22:35.290 --> 22:42.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have to worry about that because it'll be a cold day in hell when 9x advertises it all on this radio station.
[22:42.390 --> 22:45.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: We will not accept advertising whether or not they want to.
[22:45.970 --> 22:47.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: We will not accept underwriting.
[22:48.950 --> 22:53.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if they sent us a $1 million check tomorrow we probably wouldn't honor that either.
[22:54.150 --> 22:56.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: Although I don't know for sure but I doubt we would.
[22:56.510 --> 23:02.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is we don't have to worry about upsetting large corporations.
[23:02.910 --> 23:11.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why we're so good at it because the only thing we have to worry about is their wrath and the various underhanded things that they'll do to us.
[23:12.410 --> 23:16.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: But we don't have to worry about the radio station being affected in any way because you're there.
[23:17.330 --> 23:18.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our listeners are there.
[23:19.010 --> 23:20.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: You see what the power is?
[23:20.610 --> 23:22.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: The power of the individual here?
[23:22.310 --> 23:23.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a fantasy.
[23:23.530 --> 23:24.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not something we're making up.
[23:24.830 --> 23:27.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you're hearing my voice it's reality.
[23:28.310 --> 23:28.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: We exist.
[23:29.170 --> 23:29.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're here.
[23:29.790 --> 23:31.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're here because of you.
[23:32.790 --> 23:34.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's cause and effect.
[23:34.610 --> 23:36.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[23:36.450 --> 23:43.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I was driving around today at 6 in the morning right after the Gothic radio show went off the air.
[23:44.810 --> 23:48.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I heard the marathon begin 6 in the morning.
[23:48.830 --> 23:51.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the marathon had zilch.
[23:52.110 --> 23:52.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: Zero.
[23:52.570 --> 23:53.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: No money at all.
[23:53.790 --> 23:55.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: We were starting from scratch.
[23:55.250 --> 23:59.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: But now we're over $45,000 in that amount of time.
[24:00.470 --> 24:01.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you think that happened?
[24:01.590 --> 24:10.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think Exxon or NYNEX or or Mobile Oil or any of those other huge companies came in and and and dropped cash on the table?
[24:10.910 --> 24:11.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[24:11.270 --> 24:24.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: It came from people like you calling in 212-279-3400 pledging whatever it is they could afford using their their credit cards Visa and MasterCard and helping us out in whatever way they can.
[24:26.010 --> 24:27.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: And look where we've gotten so far.
[24:30.030 --> 24:33.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, that's that's how it all translates.
[24:35.170 --> 24:38.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: You call up you become part of a of a much bigger thing.
[24:38.770 --> 24:46.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400 we have open lines now so if you were frustrated by a busy signal before you won't be frustrated now.
[24:46.450 --> 25:08.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: And no, we have not forgotten about the 311 mystery because we're going to tell I'll tell you what if I see a couple more calls come in I know I hate to do this I know you hate hearing it but I just want to see a couple more calls come in and then once those calls come in we'll explain what the 311 thing is or at least what we think the 311 thing is so far.
[25:10.770 --> 25:31.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because we've been working on this you know, people people tell us various things and we investigate them and we play around with them and you know I guess maybe we're not even supposed to do that maybe we're supposed to not call something without knowing what it is maybe we could get in trouble for this maybe we could be sent to prison for a year for unauthorized access to something who knows
[25:31.050 --> 25:52.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: it's a chance we take when you want to find something out you do it anyway you just don't hurt things you don't destroy things you don't litter you know, it's like walking through a forest I've always had trouble with people saying you can't walk here it's not yours well of course it's not mine how could land be anybody's?
[25:53.150 --> 25:54.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: how can a beach be anybody's?
[25:54.630 --> 25:55.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: how can water belong to people?
[25:56.090 --> 25:57.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: how can the sky belong to somebody?
[25:58.510 --> 26:30.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't clearly it doesn't and while we might be able to make little pieces of paper and documents claim that we own them for a short amount of time namely our lifetimes in the end it belongs to the planet and that's that's how it is you just have to show respect as you pass through so thank you you're offering the magazine 2600 some confusion as to what what we're offering we're offering 2600
[26:30.470 --> 26:54.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: magazine for people that call in 212-279-3400 with the same in the same way when you wander around on phone systems and computer systems you have to sort of get what you can out of it you have to learn and share information and not close things off to people If you close things off to people,
[26:54.190 --> 26:55.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: you're not really going to accomplish anything.
[26:55.570 --> 27:04.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're just going to make the resolve a lot stronger of people that want to get in, people that want to figure out how things work and what you're really doing.
[27:05.850 --> 27:08.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean that every single action is accountable.
[27:09.450 --> 27:21.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: But when you're running systems that have to do with the public interest, as opposed to the federal interest, well, people do have a right to know and people are not told.
[27:22.290 --> 27:23.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot that people are not told.
[27:24.630 --> 27:26.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, looks like we got our phone call.
[27:26.510 --> 27:29.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to live up to my part of the promise here.
[27:29.450 --> 27:31.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's another thing that we do here at WBAI.
[27:31.310 --> 27:32.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: We honor our promises.
[27:33.290 --> 27:34.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you honor your pledges, please.
[27:35.450 --> 27:38.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, 311 is a very weird type of thing.
[27:38.850 --> 27:39.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's showing up everywhere.
[27:39.810 --> 27:40.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a fluke.
[27:40.910 --> 27:42.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that's planned.
[27:43.030 --> 27:46.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: What we did was we found a TDD machine.
[27:47.550 --> 27:49.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we actually were able to do this on three-way.
[27:49.710 --> 27:55.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: We got three people on the phone, and one of them happened to be a TDD machine.
[27:55.930 --> 27:58.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that's the difference between TDDs and modems.
[27:58.790 --> 28:04.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can talk while they're online, and it doesn't really mess up the data that's being received.
[28:05.090 --> 28:12.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: The data that was received in various forms, because depending on whether we called 212 or 516, we got slightly different information.
[28:13.470 --> 28:18.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: But the data, for the most part, said this is the New York State Police.
[28:19.570 --> 28:22.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right, the New York State Police on 311.
[28:23.030 --> 28:33.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you dial 311, for some reason that we don't know yet, you're getting the equivalent of a teletype machine at the New York State Police.
[28:33.370 --> 28:43.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, why would somebody want to call the New York State Police in the first place when it's county police and borough police and things like that that handle any local emergency, not the state police?
[28:44.470 --> 28:46.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not quite sure why that is.
[28:46.350 --> 28:51.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: But I know now that with this new information, our listeners are going to go out and find out some more things.
[28:51.390 --> 28:53.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, of course, we're going to do some more investigation ourselves.
[28:53.370 --> 28:56.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: And when we learn more, we'll spread it around here.
[28:58.050 --> 28:58.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[29:00.570 --> 29:16.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, something else that's going on, which I think is really kind of interesting, has to do with something nostalgic, something new, something that's new and old at the same time.
[29:17.590 --> 29:18.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm talking about, right?
[29:19.270 --> 29:20.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: Rotary payphones.
[29:21.210 --> 29:23.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: See the piece in the New York Times yesterday on the front page?
[29:23.850 --> 29:25.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Rotary payphones return.
[29:26.330 --> 29:29.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: This time, to foil drug deals.
[29:30.730 --> 29:33.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is about the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life.
[29:34.130 --> 29:53.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: The phone company and a bunch of civic association people have gotten together and pulled their brains, which I don't know what that amounts to, and come to the conclusion that if they simply replace Touch-Tone phones with rotary phones, that's going to somehow make drug dealers go away.
[29:55.290 --> 29:58.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, let's go over the story a little bit, and then we'll...
[29:59.030 --> 30:05.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't have enough time to go over all the reasons why that doesn't work, but we'll take a brief look at this.
[30:06.250 --> 30:11.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, we're going to take a few phone calls at our special line, 212-279-3407.
[30:11.510 --> 30:13.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right after we talk about this.
[30:13.630 --> 30:19.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not meant to be a deterrent to calling our pledge line at 212-279-3400.
[30:19.690 --> 30:32.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, everybody that calls in with the $75 pledge will get a full year of 2600 magazine, the Hacker Quarterly, and a whole lot of respect from all of us.
[30:32.910 --> 30:38.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, at 8th Avenue and West 45th Street, that's right near here, too, there are three pay telephones.
[30:38.490 --> 30:39.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think I've seen these phones.
[30:40.190 --> 30:45.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: A man looks at the first, shakes his head, and goes to the second.
[30:46.050 --> 30:48.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: He rolls his eyes and moves to the third.
[30:50.210 --> 30:59.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, he shrugs, shoves in a quarter, and dials, methodically putting his index finger in the little hole over each number and turning the dial seven times.
[31:00.870 --> 31:04.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: You notice how the New York Times is getting more literary with the way they write articles?
[31:05.150 --> 31:06.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: You get that little drama in there.
[31:07.710 --> 31:12.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and that's also a good instruction for those of you that don't know how to use those strange-looking phones.
[31:12.590 --> 31:15.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: You put your index finger in that little hole and turn the dial seven times.
[31:16.190 --> 31:18.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen people say they don't know how to use those things.
[31:19.050 --> 31:20.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the man said...
[31:20.510 --> 31:23.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: I won't say his name, even though it's on the front page of the paper.
[31:23.770 --> 31:25.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: He said, I don't like it.
[31:25.590 --> 31:28.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: It takes too long to dial, and I've got places to go.
[31:30.090 --> 31:39.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: Three decades after buttons began to replace rotary dials on American phones, time has reversed itself at about 250 outdoor payphones in New York City.
[31:40.350 --> 31:48.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: Responding to appeals from community groups trying to stop drug dealers from using public phones to do business, 9x, which, of course, was formerly New York Telephone.
[31:48.250 --> 31:50.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it's not really formerly New York Telephone.
[31:50.730 --> 31:52.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's simply swallowed up New York Telephone.
[31:53.350 --> 31:55.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: They have brought back old-fashioned dialing.
[31:56.850 --> 31:59.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: Astonishment seems the most prevalent response.
[31:59.550 --> 32:00.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: It wakes you up a little.
[32:01.550 --> 32:05.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: Said a cab driver who pulled over to the 8th Avenue phone to call his sister.
[32:05.190 --> 32:05.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's an eye-opener.
[32:06.950 --> 32:16.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the boldest tactic in a campaign that began with improved lighting, moving phones away from problem areas, then disabling phones so they cannot receive incoming calls.
[32:17.810 --> 32:22.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: About a quarter of 9x's 8,400 street phones do not take incoming calls.
[32:23.330 --> 32:28.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: And now the company is taking rotary payphones, which, by the way, are no longer made in the United States.
[32:28.830 --> 32:31.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're taking these rotary payphones out of storage.
[32:32.830 --> 32:34.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's what a 9x spokesperson said.
[32:35.170 --> 32:36.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give his name, Stephen Marcus.
[32:37.390 --> 32:44.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: He says this, the rotary dial is a step backward technologically, but it prevents a drug dealer from paging a customer or runner.
[32:46.670 --> 32:55.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: He said the change was made as an absolute last resort since the phones cannot take advantage of many new services like voicemail that rely on push-button phones.
[32:55.970 --> 33:00.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Phone company officials acknowledge that the rotary phone tactic is not foolproof.
[33:00.570 --> 33:12.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: Callers, this is the best part, callers can use a device called a tone dialer, which is sold for about $15 at electronic stores and you can use those to send tone signals over a phone with a rotary dial.
[33:12.210 --> 33:16.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: But they say the devices do not appear to have caught on.
[33:18.290 --> 33:18.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[33:19.210 --> 33:25.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Phone companies in other areas have also brought back rotary payphones on drug-infested corners, though not on a widespread basis.
[33:25.390 --> 33:34.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: We really do it as one of the last resorts as a response to community concerns, said Beverly Levy, spokeswoman for Southern New England Telephone, which serves most of Connecticut.
[33:36.590 --> 33:41.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, as I said, this is about the silliest thing I think I've ever seen.
[33:42.050 --> 33:48.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, what 9x has now done is they've given us a very easy way to find out where drugs are sold.
[33:48.270 --> 33:52.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: You simply drive around, if you see a rotary phone, you say, hey, this is the neighborhood, this is where drug dealers hang out.
[33:52.590 --> 33:57.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: But apart from that, it's not going to solve a single thing.
[33:57.210 --> 34:00.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing it's going to do is make things more inconvenient for other people.
[34:00.810 --> 34:04.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: The same thing that blocking incoming phone calls will do.
[34:05.450 --> 34:08.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how many times have you been at a payphone and you need somebody to call you back?
[34:08.430 --> 34:11.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or you didn't want to keep throwing money in and you wanted somebody to call you back?
[34:11.870 --> 34:16.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's good for drug dealers, so therefore it's not good for the rest of us.
[34:16.450 --> 34:16.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: Wrong.
[34:17.050 --> 34:18.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the case at all.
[34:18.510 --> 34:25.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: In that particular case, the phone company definitely benefits from turning off incoming phone calls to a payphone.
[34:25.530 --> 34:29.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: But they can point to the war on drugs and say, that's the reason why we did it.
[34:31.090 --> 34:38.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: In this particular case, the phone company doesn't really benefit at all, but they make it seem as if they're doing something good for the community.
[34:38.470 --> 34:49.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't think this is very good for the community at all because people have come to depend on Touch-Tones for various things using their voicemail systems, beeping people.
[34:49.710 --> 34:54.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people do beep people without drugs involved, although it is pretty rare, I guess.
[34:55.330 --> 34:59.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: using answering machines and long-distance companies, what have you.
[34:59.530 --> 35:01.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: People need Touch-Tones, people use them all the time.
[35:01.950 --> 35:03.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: This doesn't solve anything.
[35:04.630 --> 35:06.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Ever hear of a cellular telephone?
[35:06.430 --> 35:08.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of drug dealers have cellular telephones.
[35:09.210 --> 35:10.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't care.
[35:10.150 --> 35:11.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to change anything.
[35:12.490 --> 35:14.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to change a thing.
[35:14.590 --> 35:16.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the silliest thing I have ever seen.
[35:17.590 --> 35:29.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, again, what we need is people to say this because you have these people on the community boards that really, although good intention, they don't grasp what's going on here.
[35:29.910 --> 35:36.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to get rid of drug dealers by getting rid of payphones, getting rid of dials, getting rid of incoming call capabilities.
[35:36.310 --> 35:37.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to do it.
[35:38.710 --> 35:41.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a much more complex problem than that.
[35:44.150 --> 35:47.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I like to know what people think about this.
[35:47.710 --> 35:56.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a funny story in a way, but also indicative of how people feel when it comes to technology.
[35:56.610 --> 35:57.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: They just don't get it a lot of times.
[35:58.690 --> 36:01.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3407 if you want to be on the air.
[36:02.470 --> 36:06.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, 212-279-3400 to make a pledge.
[36:06.670 --> 36:07.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: What is our total?
[36:07.670 --> 36:08.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Is that really our total?
[36:09.170 --> 36:10.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's very good.
[36:10.170 --> 36:10.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's very good.
[36:10.810 --> 36:11.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're over $1,000.
[36:12.330 --> 36:13.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're over $1,000.
[36:13.850 --> 36:14.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very impressed.
[36:15.150 --> 36:19.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's better than we've done in quite some time on this radio program.
[36:20.110 --> 36:21.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: Quite some time.
[36:21.510 --> 36:24.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to add to that, please do.
[36:24.510 --> 36:25.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please do.
[36:25.070 --> 36:32.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing very well, but that doesn't mean that we can't do better because the better we do, the more it's going to show.
[36:33.470 --> 36:43.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll get a phone system someday where both the person on the radio and the person calling in can talk at the same time without one person not being able to hear anything the other person is saying.
[36:43.650 --> 36:44.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's little things like that.
[36:44.770 --> 36:50.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're annoying, but they're the kind of things that we get fixed with the money that is sent to us by our listeners.
[36:51.610 --> 36:54.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400 is a very important number to call.
[36:54.610 --> 36:58.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is the only time this radio program will be on during the entire marathon.
[36:58.830 --> 36:59.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: So please call now.
[37:00.450 --> 37:01.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[37:02.090 --> 37:02.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: We take Visa.
[37:02.750 --> 37:03.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: We take MasterCard.
[37:04.110 --> 37:05.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll work with you.
[37:05.190 --> 37:10.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll do everything we can to make this as pleasant an experience as possible for everybody in concern.
[37:12.030 --> 37:12.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[37:12.830 --> 37:16.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, our on-the-air phone number is 212-279-3407.
[37:16.970 --> 37:19.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: Those lines are pretty much all clogged up already.
[37:19.090 --> 37:22.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: So please call in the pledge line and show your support.
[37:22.890 --> 37:23.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[37:23.570 --> 37:23.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're on the air.
[37:25.330 --> 37:25.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[37:26.870 --> 37:31.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know that feature where the NYNEX cut you off after about 40 rings?
[37:32.410 --> 37:34.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a wonderful feature, isn't it?
[37:34.130 --> 37:41.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm wondering, is it a level playing field as every region of the city and the suburbs have it?
[37:41.570 --> 37:47.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or some people that are calling in to WBAI still have the old way of doing it where in effect they have an advantage?
[37:47.810 --> 38:03.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, nobody has the old way anymore and the reason for that is because our central office, the 279 Exchange, the phone company in that particular exchange has set a value on their computer saying if number of rings equals however many number of rings it is,
[38:04.050 --> 38:06.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: what is it, 40, 50, 60, then disconnect.
[38:07.050 --> 38:08.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a function of the receiving phone.
[38:08.850 --> 38:22.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, in the end it's a function of the receiving line, but there are other cases where if you're using say a long distance company, for instance, people from New Jersey might be using AT&T, well, AT&T might put a one minute limit on their outgoing calls if nobody picks up,
[38:23.030 --> 38:25.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: they'll send a recording saying hey, nobody's picking up, try again later.
[38:26.050 --> 38:27.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: So it depends where you're calling from.
[38:27.970 --> 38:31.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Some places use different carriers and those carriers have less of a limit.
[38:32.390 --> 38:38.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: But in the end you'll fall victim to the 279 exchange here, which has a limit of however many rings that is.
[38:39.150 --> 38:40.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now again, that's something that can be changed.
[38:40.690 --> 38:41.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it changed.
[38:42.750 --> 38:50.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that is set in the system and if we had enough clout with the phone company, if they didn't dislike us so much...
[38:52.790 --> 38:59.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they can do it on a phone-by-phone basis, they can certainly do it on an exchange basis, for instance, the entire 279 exchange.
[39:02.650 --> 39:06.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: For the last couple of dozen years, this hasn't been a problem.
[39:07.030 --> 39:11.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen the phone company suffering as a result of people letting the phone ring for a long period of time.
[39:11.870 --> 39:13.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how many people actually do that?
[39:13.670 --> 39:20.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: People calling this radio station right now are probably the only people that are calling something in this exchange and letting it ring for more than 10 times.
[39:20.550 --> 39:22.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: So not that many people are affected by it.
[39:23.030 --> 39:26.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: The phone company really doesn't lose much money by doing this, if any at all.
[39:26.770 --> 39:29.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: They should program it so that it's only done on peak periods.
[39:29.670 --> 39:29.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[39:30.050 --> 39:30.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's an idea.
[39:30.730 --> 39:31.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's an idea.
[39:31.270 --> 39:34.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: Although I really don't think it would even affect them much in peak periods.
[39:34.730 --> 39:43.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, again, if it's something that people want, if we know how to apply the pressure, then things will change.
[39:43.310 --> 39:44.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's as simple as that.
[39:44.130 --> 39:46.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are people on the left disorganized?
[39:46.430 --> 39:54.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: People on the left are disorganized, but, you know, it's better than being on the other side where people are a little too organized sometimes, you know?
[39:54.530 --> 39:56.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: But that's one of the definitions of being a leftist.
[39:56.770 --> 39:57.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess.
[39:57.410 --> 39:59.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it is in one way.
[40:00.150 --> 40:01.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, you can still use it.
[40:01.830 --> 40:02.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can still...
[40:02.310 --> 40:09.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: And technology is the best way to use the power that you have as an individual because you can reach a lot more people that way.
[40:09.470 --> 40:12.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can inspire people and maybe something will get done.
[40:12.710 --> 40:13.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can I ask you one more question?
[40:13.470 --> 40:13.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[40:14.130 --> 40:30.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or, Internet, if I wanted to leave a message of a commercial nature, is it true that the original users of Internet are sort of boycotting commercial messages and what they're doing is they're bombarding the phone number and they're calling you up with crank calls?
[40:30.330 --> 40:32.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, there might be some people that do that.
[40:32.150 --> 40:33.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not an official policy of anybody.
[40:34.770 --> 40:38.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: But the original purpose of the Internet was not for commercial use.
[40:38.190 --> 40:42.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: However, that is changing, obviously, as commercial entities get involved in it.
[40:42.310 --> 40:52.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: But hopefully, hopefully, the day will not come where you're using your Internet mailbox and you have to go through all the junk mail that shows up every day that is unasked for.
[40:52.410 --> 40:53.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like a regular mail.
[40:53.090 --> 41:00.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: But for a person like myself who's starting a business on a shoestring, what would it cost me to go on the Internet and put a message there?
[41:00.610 --> 41:02.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what do you mean by put a message there?
[41:03.370 --> 41:09.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: A message of a commercial nature that would interest or excite anybody that logs on.
[41:09.430 --> 41:15.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, as far as people calling you, they're calling you, so you can say whatever you want.
[41:15.470 --> 41:22.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're going to go around sending messages to people unsolicited, that's definitely going to react and you'll get a bad reaction to that.
[41:22.530 --> 41:28.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there a general global mailbox where you can just leave a message for anybody and everybody that wants to look at it?
[41:28.570 --> 41:36.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you get people to contact you, yes, then they can see information by either fingering your account or you can have an auto-reply.
[41:36.990 --> 41:40.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: People that want information send you mail and it automatically gets sent out to them.
[41:41.050 --> 41:43.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: But they initially take the first step.
[41:43.630 --> 41:49.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's considered really bad to deluge people with commercial material if they didn't ask for it.
[41:49.690 --> 41:50.010]  Right.
[41:50.310 --> 41:51.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: It seems like it is limited.
[41:52.230 --> 41:54.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's no real way that they can find...
[41:56.550 --> 41:59.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Generally speaking, it's like a jungle out there.
[41:59.310 --> 42:01.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's a maze trying to figure out...
[42:01.170 --> 42:03.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's not really user-friendly.
[42:03.270 --> 42:03.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[42:03.870 --> 42:04.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think.
[42:04.850 --> 42:06.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: All these BBSs seem to be that way.
[42:06.830 --> 42:07.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just like they...
[42:07.810 --> 42:16.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then if you don't want to spend the time with the phone chargers, you really don't want to practice with it for like four hours to figure out what's good on it and what's bad.
[42:16.470 --> 42:16.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: but...
[42:17.330 --> 42:21.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, sometimes you have to sort of wander around for long periods of time.
[42:21.830 --> 42:26.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: The Internet is different than everything we've had before this.
[42:27.470 --> 42:29.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: People don't think in the same way.
[42:30.150 --> 42:39.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: Money is not as much of a concern and there's more equality there than any place else in society because you really don't know who you're talking to and that's a good thing.
[42:39.770 --> 42:41.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: People prove themselves on their words.
[42:41.670 --> 42:42.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for calling.
[42:42.490 --> 42:42.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot.
[42:44.150 --> 42:48.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take another phone call at 212-279-3407.
[42:49.030 --> 43:05.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: But our pledge lines are wide open at 212-279-3400 and in a little while in about maybe 10 minutes 10 or 15 minutes or so we will tell you the saga of fiber optic as he went to prison and is now there locked up.
[43:06.810 --> 43:07.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[43:07.510 --> 43:08.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're on the air.
[43:09.710 --> 43:10.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello?
[43:10.390 --> 43:10.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, go ahead.
[43:11.830 --> 43:13.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I had a question.
[43:14.350 --> 43:15.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that question was?
[43:16.270 --> 43:18.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: About the Kraft Access computer that I've heard about.
[43:19.110 --> 43:19.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[43:19.450 --> 43:20.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can you give me any information on that?
[43:20.970 --> 43:23.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: What that was used for and if it is still in use?
[43:23.430 --> 43:26.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the Kraft Access terminals are used by phone companies.
[43:26.930 --> 43:29.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're little portable computers is what they are.
[43:30.230 --> 43:34.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're used to access computers that the phone company has.
[43:34.990 --> 43:48.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of times they have all kinds of information stored in them and you can use it basically to get information on a customer, to change reports, to finish repair reports, things like that.
[43:48.650 --> 43:49.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: Every lineman has one.
[43:49.870 --> 43:51.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: Every lineman carries one with him.
[43:51.390 --> 43:51.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[43:51.950 --> 43:52.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have somebody...
[43:52.890 --> 44:02.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: for All Electronics Corporation and they're selling an original AT&T handset new in the box for $60 with the Kraft Access controls on it.
[44:02.490 --> 44:02.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[44:03.070 --> 44:04.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, now, I'm not sure...
[44:04.750 --> 44:13.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen the AT&T version so I can't really tell you what that is exactly but it's used by local phone companies.
[44:13.830 --> 44:14.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for the most part.
[44:14.690 --> 44:17.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: It has an LCD screen and a joystick on it.
[44:17.670 --> 44:17.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[44:18.590 --> 44:18.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[44:19.330 --> 44:20.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, thanks for the good phone.
[44:20.990 --> 44:21.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[44:21.410 --> 44:21.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, thank you.
[44:22.010 --> 44:22.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bye-bye.
[44:22.270 --> 44:22.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Take care.
[44:23.130 --> 44:28.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: You might go to a garage sale by the phone company and you might find some Kraft Access terminals there but I doubt it.
[44:28.910 --> 44:35.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think those are things that they don't really want spread around but as we learn more we'll certainly pass it on.
[44:37.170 --> 44:39.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400 is our pledge line.
[44:39.730 --> 44:39.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please.
[44:40.510 --> 44:43.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get a couple of calls coming in on that line as well.
[44:43.750 --> 44:44.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to take a couple more phone calls.
[44:46.290 --> 44:47.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not going to be one of them.
[44:51.490 --> 44:52.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[44:52.510 --> 44:53.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good evening.
[44:53.630 --> 44:54.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone.
[44:55.150 --> 44:55.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, hi.
[44:56.310 --> 44:56.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: How you doing?
[44:56.950 --> 44:57.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, here's the story.
[44:58.110 --> 44:59.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: What does NYNEX stand for?
[45:00.250 --> 45:01.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's a good question.
[45:01.490 --> 45:02.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is.
[45:02.430 --> 45:04.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I only ask good questions.
[45:04.410 --> 45:05.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[45:05.210 --> 45:08.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I asked the telephone operator what is NYNEX...
[45:08.150 --> 45:09.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: But you never stick around to hear the answer.
[45:09.350 --> 45:10.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't even know.
[45:10.710 --> 45:13.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, I'm going to tell you the answer to your question.
[45:13.690 --> 45:14.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's all I'm going to tell you.
[45:15.390 --> 45:17.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: NYNEX stands for...
[45:17.030 --> 45:17.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready?
[45:18.890 --> 45:20.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm going to see if a listener knows.
[45:20.390 --> 45:21.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to see if a listener knows first.
[45:21.630 --> 45:25.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if no listener knows, then I'm going to tell you.
[45:25.630 --> 45:26.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Really, I will.
[45:26.470 --> 45:26.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[45:27.190 --> 45:28.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'd say it's New York, New England.
[45:29.310 --> 45:29.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[45:29.770 --> 45:31.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: But what does the X stand for?
[45:31.610 --> 45:32.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Then I have really no idea.
[45:33.170 --> 45:35.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: Then your answer is completely worthless.
[45:35.450 --> 45:36.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to have the whole thing.
[45:37.010 --> 45:39.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, maybe Exchange Carrier or something like that?
[45:39.290 --> 45:40.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very good guess.
[45:41.190 --> 45:41.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's wrong?
[45:41.950 --> 45:43.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's totally wrong, but it's a very good guess.
[45:43.650 --> 45:44.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, thanks.
[45:44.370 --> 45:44.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[45:45.870 --> 45:46.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[45:46.990 --> 45:49.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's try a couple more people and see if anybody knows this.
[45:49.330 --> 45:49.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[45:49.990 --> 45:50.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello?
[45:50.630 --> 45:50.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[45:51.470 --> 45:51.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello?
[45:52.090 --> 45:53.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you have a horrible hum on the line.
[45:53.890 --> 45:54.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[45:54.290 --> 45:54.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you hear me?
[45:54.910 --> 45:55.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we're on delay.
[45:55.910 --> 45:56.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[45:56.550 --> 45:58.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're also on a lousy hum here.
[45:58.230 --> 45:58.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[45:58.550 --> 46:00.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: So very quickly, tell us...
[46:00.030 --> 46:00.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, something's wrong with the phones.
[46:00.830 --> 46:02.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, something is very wrong with the phones.
[46:02.630 --> 46:02.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[46:04.050 --> 46:04.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[46:04.590 --> 46:06.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, unfortunately, we won't be able to get anywhere with that person.
[46:07.010 --> 46:07.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's sad.
[46:08.010 --> 46:09.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: He probably had the answer.
[46:09.270 --> 46:09.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[46:10.210 --> 46:10.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[46:10.530 --> 46:10.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[46:10.930 --> 46:12.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad I got through.
[46:12.310 --> 46:15.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: I found something strange about the 3407 exchange.
[46:16.730 --> 46:20.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Usually when I call 3400 and the line's busy, I get a busy signal.
[46:20.670 --> 46:23.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: But with 07, it rings twice.
[46:23.590 --> 46:28.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then a message, you know, you get that and it says, your call has not gone through.
[46:28.790 --> 46:29.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please try again.
[46:30.210 --> 46:34.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then this man's voice comes on and says, why 3285?
[46:35.130 --> 46:35.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: Why indeed?
[46:36.850 --> 46:42.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm calling from 914 exchange, but I found that really strange, you know, when I was trying to get through it.
[46:42.330 --> 46:43.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did that happen more than once?
[46:43.910 --> 46:44.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:44.810 --> 46:49.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're saying you called us and you got two rings and then a recording saying what?
[46:49.730 --> 46:55.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: A record, you know, you get that day and day and day, that signal, and a woman's voice says, your call did not go through.
[46:55.590 --> 46:56.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please try your call again.
[46:57.090 --> 47:01.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then a man's voice comes on and says, why 3285?
[47:02.030 --> 47:02.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[47:02.250 --> 47:06.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: What that is, it's simply a label for the recording, where the recording is coming from.
[47:06.270 --> 47:09.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm more concerned with why you're getting that recording in the first place.
[47:09.090 --> 47:09.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't be.
[47:09.910 --> 47:10.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[47:10.170 --> 47:11.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't get that with 3400.
[47:12.070 --> 47:15.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, usually when a lot of people are calling, I just get a busy signal, you know?
[47:15.910 --> 47:21.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, assuming that these lines remain busy, we'll try it ourselves and see if the same thing happens to us.
[47:22.010 --> 47:24.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's basically all I want to say.
[47:24.170 --> 47:25.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, thanks for calling.
[47:25.390 --> 47:25.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
[47:26.510 --> 47:27.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[47:29.370 --> 47:31.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: How could that have been what he wanted to say?
[47:31.430 --> 47:35.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: He called us to tell us that when he calls us, he doesn't get through.
[47:35.690 --> 47:36.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's not right.
[47:36.910 --> 47:43.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not right because he called us initially to find out something else and that's when he found out he couldn't get through.
[47:44.410 --> 47:45.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a self-referential call there.
[47:47.370 --> 47:49.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess we'll never know what that was all about.
[47:50.190 --> 47:50.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[47:51.250 --> 47:52.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's try this.
[47:53.650 --> 47:54.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be kind of tricky, though.
[47:55.110 --> 48:03.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got to somehow call this line and see if we get the same problem.
[48:04.890 --> 48:05.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[48:08.350 --> 48:11.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll try to call this line on another phone number here.
[48:13.270 --> 48:17.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we will see in a second if we get the same problem.
[48:19.670 --> 48:22.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: See, I can't get a single line here.
[48:22.770 --> 48:22.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[48:22.990 --> 48:24.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's try it over here.
[48:25.050 --> 48:26.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: My apologies for this.
[48:27.370 --> 48:30.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Things sometimes get a little...
[48:31.490 --> 48:31.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[48:31.970 --> 48:32.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
[48:34.010 --> 48:34.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get a dial tone.
[48:40.150 --> 48:41.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a busy signal right away.
[48:44.800 --> 48:48.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I don't doubt that's what happened, but it's not happening consistently.
[48:48.440 --> 48:50.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: If anyone else has that problem, let us know.
[48:51.140 --> 48:51.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[48:51.360 --> 48:52.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: Very quickly now.
[48:52.780 --> 48:54.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll take one or two more calls.
[48:54.620 --> 48:56.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: See if anybody knows what NYNEX stands for.
[48:56.480 --> 49:02.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll go back to the show and back to taking some more pledges.
[49:03.000 --> 49:04.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully that number will go up.
[49:04.220 --> 49:05.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's going up a little bit.
[49:05.760 --> 49:07.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[49:08.600 --> 49:15.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: $75 pledge will get you a subscription to 2600 Magazine, the elite publication of Computer Hackers Everywhere.
[49:16.060 --> 49:17.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe I just said that.
[49:17.940 --> 49:18.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening, you're on.
[49:21.080 --> 49:21.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, are you there?
[49:23.380 --> 49:24.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, are you there?
[49:24.520 --> 49:24.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[49:25.040 --> 49:25.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[49:25.620 --> 49:26.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Are we on time delay?
[49:27.080 --> 49:27.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we are.
[49:28.060 --> 49:29.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: What you're hearing is not really happening.
[49:29.460 --> 49:33.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I tried about 40 times to get through and it rings once and then disconnects.
[49:33.220 --> 49:34.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: I call the operator.
[49:34.140 --> 49:35.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: She said, oh, that line's out of order.
[49:35.600 --> 49:37.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: But that's not why I called, so I don't want to waste time on that.
[49:38.100 --> 49:41.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's a conspiracy against you from the phone company.
[49:41.760 --> 49:42.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of many, actually.
[49:43.120 --> 49:43.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[49:43.740 --> 49:43.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Whatever.
[49:44.700 --> 49:50.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, maybe it was when you switched over something is getting caught up or they just don't want to waste the electricity.
[49:50.820 --> 49:52.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's why they cut it down to 10 rings.
[49:53.040 --> 49:54.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the conserving power.
[49:54.520 --> 49:55.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, okay.
[49:55.460 --> 49:56.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's good.
[49:56.100 --> 49:57.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm for conserving things.
[49:57.540 --> 49:59.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just wanted to mention two things.
[49:59.600 --> 50:04.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: One, I've heard presidents and politicians talk about how they're going to stop drugs.
[50:05.220 --> 50:09.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've never heard them mention how they're going to help people by...
[50:09.420 --> 50:12.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: When I get through listening, I ask myself, why do people take drugs?
[50:13.020 --> 50:13.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[50:13.560 --> 50:16.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think the answer is because they don't feel good.
[50:16.540 --> 50:17.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why don't they feel good?
[50:18.000 --> 50:19.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because they're not eating right.
[50:19.440 --> 50:20.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're not healthy.
[50:20.480 --> 50:20.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[50:20.820 --> 50:28.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I noticed something in my life, and I'm not saying alcohol is good, bad, whatever, maybe in moderation it's okay.
[50:28.580 --> 50:28.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[50:29.100 --> 50:39.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I know one thing, that sometime in 1985 when I started taking food supplements on a regular basis, I lost my desire to drink.
[50:39.360 --> 50:44.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not that I drank to excess or that it interfered with my life.
[50:44.840 --> 50:45.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[50:45.420 --> 50:47.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I found that I just didn't...
[50:47.400 --> 50:51.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: I felt so good I didn't want to change that.
[50:51.780 --> 50:58.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if we would start to treat people and feed them and educate them instead of...
[50:58.740 --> 51:02.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, there are people out there that eat all day long and they're eating garbage.
[51:02.640 --> 51:08.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're eating fast food and they're eating plastic food and synthetic food and irradiated food.
[51:08.780 --> 51:11.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: If only we would educate them and start with the children.
[51:12.060 --> 51:15.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's like I keep saying, all right, I'm going to start keeping records January 1st.
[51:16.160 --> 51:19.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: But January 15th comes and start today.
[51:20.100 --> 51:21.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Today is the beginning of the rest of our lives.
[51:21.860 --> 51:29.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I wonder, a lot of times people feel really good when they give homeless people the remains of a Big Mac or something like that.
[51:29.760 --> 51:34.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: I just wonder, you know, how many people out there have eaten fast food all day long?
[51:35.100 --> 51:37.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, day after day, it's not good for you.
[51:37.880 --> 51:38.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: It really isn't.
[51:38.780 --> 51:41.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: But why doesn't anyone nourish?
[51:41.580 --> 51:45.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, why doesn't anyone say, all right, let's nourish them, let's feed them.
[51:45.800 --> 51:49.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're out there and they need something and they don't...
[51:49.820 --> 51:51.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like people who eat too much sugar.
[51:52.060 --> 51:58.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, there have been articles and I'm sure Gary Knoll and people have talked about the effects of sugar on children and hyperactivity.
[51:59.060 --> 52:00.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, what about adults?
[52:00.700 --> 52:06.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: What about adults and sugar and hyperactivity and criminal behavior because people are not thinking right?
[52:06.440 --> 52:14.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I think you know the answer to that why people don't say this because a lot of people really don't care and that's the sad fact.
[52:14.660 --> 52:27.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: I saw a report, I think it was two nights ago on Channel 2 Late News about the new Giuliani policy or actually, no, it was the new Transit Authority policy which I'm not sure if it had its roots in the Giuliani administration.
[52:28.360 --> 52:47.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, the people on the train, this is how they pretty much phrased it, they said the people on the train that harass you and intimidate you and make your commute and your subway ride miserable by asking for money and chasing you and threatening you and all that kind of thing.
[52:47.440 --> 52:48.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be stopped.
[52:48.520 --> 52:49.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to stop these people from doing that.
[52:49.920 --> 53:02.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to arrest the beggars on the train and this whole big report was basically meant to get all the yuppie commuters feeling great about how nice the subway will be to ride in.
[53:02.280 --> 53:07.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Not one word was said about, well, why are these people compelled to beg in the first place?
[53:07.700 --> 53:08.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Is anything being done for them?
[53:09.180 --> 53:10.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: About doing something for them.
[53:10.500 --> 53:12.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: The tone of the report was just so callous.
[53:12.980 --> 53:14.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: I could not believe it.
[53:14.500 --> 53:24.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: I just couldn't believe that they wouldn't think, well, maybe there should be like something, some explanation, some service, something offered to help these people.
[53:24.760 --> 53:25.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[53:25.400 --> 53:25.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: But nothing.
[53:25.840 --> 53:26.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[53:26.140 --> 53:26.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: How to work.
[53:26.300 --> 53:27.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, he's a bandage.
[53:27.320 --> 53:31.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, all these treatments, all these police on the street, it's all a bandage.
[53:31.220 --> 53:32.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not getting to the root of the problem.
[53:33.040 --> 53:33.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[53:33.240 --> 53:34.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's like the rotary phone thing.
[53:35.120 --> 53:35.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[53:35.440 --> 53:36.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to, it's not going to solve it.
[53:36.800 --> 53:42.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: But why should we pay politicians and government and why is government growing and we're shrinking?
[53:42.840 --> 53:46.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why is government growing and they have bonuses and all these plans?
[53:47.040 --> 53:49.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: What are we, we're going to escape from the planet?
[53:49.440 --> 53:50.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Billions of dollars for whatever?
[53:51.320 --> 53:51.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[53:51.800 --> 53:56.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, science fiction is fun to read about, but they're going to get up to Mars and find what?
[53:56.500 --> 53:59.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, why doesn't that money be put into...
[53:59.880 --> 54:05.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you see, that's where I disagree because I do think we should go to Mars, but I think there is money there.
[54:05.260 --> 54:06.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's plenty of money there.
[54:06.560 --> 54:10.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if we just take the money that we spend on destroying ourselves, you know what?
[54:10.160 --> 54:12.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have that money to help ourselves.
[54:12.460 --> 54:13.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, that's right.
[54:13.160 --> 54:16.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: But why don't we address the problems that we have on Earth?
[54:16.900 --> 54:19.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: When you get up in the morning, do you just run right out of bed?
[54:19.260 --> 54:22.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, you get dressed, you wash, you show, you eat, you do whatever.
[54:22.720 --> 54:25.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: You take care of yourself before you go to Mars, before you go somewhere.
[54:26.020 --> 54:27.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: You've got to take care of Earth.
[54:28.300 --> 54:36.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then, when we're ready to go to Mars, you know, isn't it funny how that probe, what was it, the Jupiter probe or the Mars probe, it disappeared?
[54:36.800 --> 54:38.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's not the first one to do that either.
[54:39.100 --> 54:41.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you, you know, what do you think?
[54:41.360 --> 54:43.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: You think they're up there and they're making it disappear?
[54:43.700 --> 54:44.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, come on.
[54:44.360 --> 54:45.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's definitely something out there.
[54:46.000 --> 54:48.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, that's obviously the case.
[54:49.680 --> 54:52.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you hear yourself cutting in and out or is that just on my phone?
[54:52.800 --> 54:53.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's you.
[54:53.720 --> 54:57.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: You see, I never get to hear that but I know everybody that calls in does hear that and that's one of the things we want to try to fix.
[54:58.100 --> 54:59.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you have voice activated?
[54:59.560 --> 55:01.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you speaking in, you're not speaking into a phone then, right?
[55:01.860 --> 55:10.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, there's a microphone that feeds into the phone system but somewhere along the lines I think a rat or something has chewed through one of the connections and we have to, we have to find out where that is.
[55:10.900 --> 55:11.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're cutting in and out.
[55:11.980 --> 55:14.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've never heard that before and I have called them before on the other line.
[55:14.680 --> 55:14.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Really?
[55:14.940 --> 55:21.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, usually I try to say things that are, you know, intelligent enough so that you only have to hear every other word to really understand what I'm saying.
[55:21.440 --> 55:24.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just want to say one more thing about something that I do.
[55:24.320 --> 55:32.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: I go to a particular store that when I discovered this a few years ago when the new food comes in they throw out the old food.
[55:33.200 --> 55:41.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I go at the time when that happens the night before and I take all the food and I feed people with it.
[55:41.920 --> 55:51.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if people would make contact with their supermarkets and health food stores and whatever they would find that there is waste and they just don't have anything to do with it.
[55:51.440 --> 55:52.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Even McDonald's.
[55:52.940 --> 55:59.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, if you're really hungry at the end of the night go to McDonald's just before they're closing and they'll probably give you food.
[56:00.000 --> 56:18.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: But there's so much food there's so much waste and I've noticed another thing which is not food but the bookstores at the end of the month or when they're through when the new shipment comes in they rip off the front page of books and magazines and whatever's on the shelf the day before and they throw it out into the garbage.
[56:18.540 --> 56:19.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: They do it with shoes.
[56:20.360 --> 56:21.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: What a waste.
[56:21.800 --> 56:23.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why must we waste?
[56:23.300 --> 56:24.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why must there be waste?
[56:24.280 --> 56:25.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's where people like you come in.
[56:25.580 --> 56:26.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: People that care.
[56:27.020 --> 56:27.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, but what can I...
[56:27.840 --> 56:33.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I do what I can do but I'm trying to share my purpose is not to just, you know, blast my horn on the air.
[56:33.560 --> 56:40.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping I'm reaching people The fact that you do the fact that you do what you can do I mean, that sets you apart from...
[56:40.160 --> 56:56.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to reach out to people I've been doing this for 25 years I've been trying to talk especially the Bob Grant show No, I don't talk on his show Well, I don't know if anybody talks on his show but that's beside the point No, he screens all his calls and you know you ever listen he doesn't even give out the number anymore Only certain people that belong to his club Well,
[56:56.760 --> 57:21.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: that's because they're playing recordings from the 50s I don't know Okay, let's give somebody else a chance Thank you Thanks for calling That's the kind of people we need people that care people that will do something and it may not seem like much you know if you go and help somebody out there's still a thousand more people that need help but it does because maybe you'll reach other people that
[57:21.720 --> 57:41.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: can help other people and it's exponential hopefully more and more of this will go away with a combination of pressure and a combination of charity on our particular, you know, individual way of looking at things.
[57:42.440 --> 57:45.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400 is our pledge line.
[57:45.860 --> 57:47.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'm going to tell you what NYNEX stands for.
[57:47.680 --> 57:47.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: You ready?
[57:48.100 --> 57:49.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't say this very much anymore.
[57:50.940 --> 57:52.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the first caller was right.
[57:52.740 --> 57:53.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: New York, New England.
[57:53.820 --> 57:54.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: What does the X stand for?
[57:55.080 --> 57:58.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: My friends, X stands for the unknown.
[57:59.580 --> 58:08.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how they got that exactly, but X is sort of the algebraic equation, I suppose, that means something that they do not yet know what it is.
[58:09.080 --> 58:11.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why the X is also kind of transparent.
[58:12.000 --> 58:13.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you look at it, it's not a solid letter.
[58:13.700 --> 58:17.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's because it hasn't been finished yet, and knowing NYNEX will probably never be finished.
[58:18.020 --> 58:23.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's their kind of mystical, poetic way of looking at the future.
[58:24.660 --> 58:28.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe when they figure out what the future will be, it will just be called 9, but I doubt it.
[58:29.400 --> 58:30.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's NYNEX.
[58:30.500 --> 58:30.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[58:31.740 --> 58:36.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're going to take a little break, and when we come back, we're going to tell you all about fiber optic.
[58:37.480 --> 58:41.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: While we're away, let's get some phone calls coming in.
[58:42.160 --> 58:43.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[58:44.060 --> 58:45.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please show your support for this radio station.
[58:46.300 --> 58:47.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going an extra hour tonight.
[58:47.860 --> 58:50.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the only time we're going to be on during the marathon.
[58:50.160 --> 58:51.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to be on next week.
[58:51.440 --> 58:53.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to be on the week after that.
[58:53.520 --> 58:57.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, if you want to show support for Off the Hook, this is the time to do it.
[58:58.020 --> 59:00.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[59:01.140 --> 59:08.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: We accept Visa and MasterCard, and if you are particularly generous and wish to pledge $75, we will send you...
[59:08.260 --> 59:13.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: The people at 2600 Magazine will thank you personally and send you a full year of the magazine.
[59:13.800 --> 59:16.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[59:16.420 --> 59:18.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please let us light up those lines.
[59:18.400 --> 59:19.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: There is one call on the line.
[59:19.820 --> 59:20.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: I know we can fill it up.
[59:20.820 --> 59:23.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: I know we can get seven calls.
[59:23.420 --> 59:24.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: Seven is the number.
[59:25.760 --> 59:28.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, we need six more people, and you're one of those people.
[59:30.020 --> 59:31.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[59:31.760 --> 59:34.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's show some people power out there.
[59:36.600 --> 59:41.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very easy to just say somebody else is going to take care of this particular problem.
[59:42.020 --> 59:49.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody else is going to see that something changes, see that something is done that will make a difference.
[59:49.820 --> 59:53.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, in actuality, you're the person that makes that difference.
[59:53.620 --> 59:54.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: We all are.
[59:54.940 --> 59:57.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody does something.
[01:00:05.610 --> 01:00:14.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: WBAI, where a single voice can often reach many, many people and change their lives.
[01:00:15.010 --> 01:00:17.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:00:17.930 --> 01:00:19.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please give us a call.
[01:00:19.310 --> 01:00:21.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back in a few minutes.
[01:00:21.690 --> 01:00:22.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[01:00:37.640 --> 01:00:59.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: See, I walk along this lonely street Trying to find Find the future New pair of shoes Are on my feet Fashion is My only culture Just
[01:01:14.350 --> 01:01:24.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: be yourself It makes no sense To follow passion I don't try
[01:01:52.360 --> 01:02:02.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just living in a life without feeling.
[01:02:03.220 --> 01:02:08.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: And talk, and talk, say nothing.
[01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:17.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is WBAI in New York, where the record didn't stop when it was supposed to.
[01:04:17.060 --> 01:04:18.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay, we'll let it go.
[01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:22.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400 is our pledge line.
[01:04:22.640 --> 01:04:24.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: That was music from the Specials.
[01:04:25.460 --> 01:04:26.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Sad song there.
[01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:29.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: About lives that mean nothing.
[01:04:29.660 --> 01:04:30.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Lives that are going no place.
[01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:37.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Lives that are unlike people listening and people that are a part of this show because we're doing things.
[01:04:37.820 --> 01:04:39.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're making change.
[01:04:39.340 --> 01:04:40.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're accomplishing things.
[01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:43.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad.
[01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:46.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: But at least we know we're going someplace.
[01:04:47.500 --> 01:04:52.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: This was a very interesting week.
[01:04:52.060 --> 01:04:58.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: A very momentous occasion over the past couple of weeks, actually.
[01:04:58.420 --> 01:05:14.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: As many of you who've listened to this radio program know, the person who was on this radio program for quite some time, fiber optic, was sent to prison, federal prison, for a period of a year and a day with good behavior.
[01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:18.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: That might get down to around 10 months.
[01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:29.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's still a pretty lengthy time to be taken away from your home, your friends, the technology you've come to get so attached to.
[01:05:30.460 --> 01:05:39.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also about as stupid a thing to do as replacing payphones with rotary dials because it doesn't solve anything.
[01:05:39.940 --> 01:05:41.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it simply makes things worse.
[01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:46.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we've been saying all along ever since this whole thing started.
[01:05:48.980 --> 01:05:52.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: And WBAI is a place where you may have heard the entire story.
[01:05:52.740 --> 01:05:54.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of weird, you know.
[01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:55.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody planned it this way.
[01:05:56.060 --> 01:06:19.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: But what happened over the past couple of years is that those of you who listen to the radio program here have come to know this person, have come to rely on his technical expertise, and have felt the same outrage that those of us in the hacker community felt when the sentence was announced.
[01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:23.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's quite an education.
[01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:24.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Quite an experience.
[01:06:25.160 --> 01:06:40.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you look at other places, look at how this was covered in the news, in regular newspapers, even the New York Times, where you might expect something, something fairly good to be written.
[01:06:40.920 --> 01:07:04.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't see anything like that, basically you saw the word computer gang, member of a computer gang, the inner-city kids that are terrorizing the information highway, putting spikes, if you will, on the roadway of the information highway, dropping stones off bridges onto passing vehicles on the information highway.
[01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:07.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: They just love making analogies that don't make any sense.
[01:07:09.310 --> 01:07:10.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's sort of what they're there for.
[01:07:12.160 --> 01:07:19.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: But those of us who were here, those of us who stayed tuned to WBAI, who listened to Off the Hook, we know the true story.
[01:07:20.340 --> 01:07:21.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: We know who this person was.
[01:07:22.060 --> 01:07:24.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: We know what he stood for.
[01:07:26.020 --> 01:07:27.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: We know what his personality was like.
[01:07:30.420 --> 01:07:36.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm glad that so many of you got the chance to learn this, got the chance to experience this firsthand.
[01:07:37.180 --> 01:07:38.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the good part.
[01:07:38.580 --> 01:07:43.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: The good part is that we all kind of went through this together, and we're still going through this together.
[01:07:44.240 --> 01:07:45.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we will be for quite some time.
[01:07:49.950 --> 01:07:51.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's important to have a place like this.
[01:07:51.950 --> 01:07:59.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's important that WBAI be around for things like this in the future, so that you hear something about it.
[01:08:00.650 --> 01:08:12.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: If WBAI was not here, if Off the Hook was not on the air, then fiber optic would still be in jail today, but very few people would know about it.
[01:08:12.690 --> 01:08:14.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Very few people would care.
[01:08:16.910 --> 01:08:28.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the power that we have, the power that reaching out, communicating with people throughout the metropolitan area, we're changing minds.
[01:08:28.970 --> 01:08:30.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're reaching people.
[01:08:31.130 --> 01:08:39.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is being discussed in various places, and with a little luck, a little determination, this won't soon happen again.
[01:08:40.790 --> 01:08:42.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we really have to focus upon.
[01:08:43.110 --> 01:08:46.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: When something happens that is wrong, you tell people about it.
[01:08:46.710 --> 01:08:50.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: You spread the word, and you show outrage in whatever way you can.
[01:08:51.890 --> 01:08:54.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that is where the power comes in.
[01:08:56.330 --> 01:09:02.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, before we get into the actual story, please, we do need people to call in.
[01:09:02.690 --> 01:09:07.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: We would not be asking at a time like this if we didn't really need people to call in.
[01:09:08.830 --> 01:09:10.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:09:10.570 --> 01:09:17.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the first day of our pledge drive for the winter 1994 season.
[01:09:18.270 --> 01:09:23.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the only time this radio program will be on the air throughout the entire marathon period.
[01:09:23.890 --> 01:09:25.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, this is our last show for the month.
[01:09:26.710 --> 01:09:35.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, we'd like to see a strong showing for this particular show, this subject matter.
[01:09:35.250 --> 01:09:37.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'd like to know that people are being affected by this.
[01:09:37.910 --> 01:09:52.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: That hearing about technology, hearing about the latest that the phone company is up to, hearing about the hacker news, what's going on, who's being sent away, and why, and what we can do about it.
[01:09:54.290 --> 01:09:55.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: That means something to you.
[01:09:55.790 --> 01:09:56.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please, give us a call now.
[01:09:57.110 --> 01:09:58.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our phone lines are wide open.
[01:09:58.830 --> 01:09:59.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: There is nobody there.
[01:10:00.990 --> 01:10:02.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please change that.
[01:10:02.350 --> 01:10:04.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:10:04.830 --> 01:10:07.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our total is $1,120.
[01:10:07.670 --> 01:10:09.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's from when we started at 10 o'clock.
[01:10:09.550 --> 01:10:10.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's quite good.
[01:10:10.650 --> 01:10:11.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: That is quite good.
[01:10:11.830 --> 01:10:15.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: But keep in mind, this is the only time this program is going to be on.
[01:10:15.830 --> 01:10:20.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: So we need everything for this particular period.
[01:10:21.310 --> 01:10:25.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're out there, if you're an off-the-hook supporter, please make that phone call now.
[01:10:25.870 --> 01:10:28.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:10:28.710 --> 01:10:37.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: And remember, those of you who pledge $75 will receive a full year of 2600 Magazine as a special added thank you.
[01:10:38.490 --> 01:10:39.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Every little bit counts.
[01:10:41.510 --> 01:10:42.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[01:10:43.610 --> 01:10:52.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: As we mentioned last week, Phiber was supposed to wind up in prison on Friday.
[01:10:53.330 --> 01:10:57.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: Friday, we assume, during the day sometime.
[01:10:59.070 --> 01:11:08.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the plan was to drive him out to Pennsylvania, a bunch of us in a car, and make it as pleasant as possible.
[01:11:09.390 --> 01:11:12.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many people out there have ever driven somebody to a prison.
[01:11:12.890 --> 01:11:13.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've never done it before.
[01:11:14.470 --> 01:11:16.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: So certainly a first for me.
[01:11:17.950 --> 01:11:27.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we drove down to Philadelphia on Thursday night so that we'd have a little bit of time to spend, you know, doing something fun.
[01:11:27.770 --> 01:11:33.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hanging out in the streets of Philadelphia, South Street, which is kind of a neat area to hang out.
[01:11:36.770 --> 01:11:42.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we made it down there and met a few other people, a few other people in the Philadelphia area.
[01:11:43.530 --> 01:11:45.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there are hackers in every city, you know.
[01:11:46.330 --> 01:11:49.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's 2,600 meetings virtually everywhere now.
[01:11:49.570 --> 01:11:54.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: And all the hackers seem to have kind of the same outlook on things.
[01:11:55.490 --> 01:12:05.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the kind of a unbridled optimism that somehow just curiosity and a positive outlook will get them through various crises.
[01:12:05.710 --> 01:12:09.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what fiber needed more than anything at that particular point in time, I think.
[01:12:10.090 --> 01:12:26.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not so much everything is normal, nothing is out of the ordinary, but just knowing that your friends are around you, knowing that we're not crushed, we're not destroyed, and we're going to be there and we'll be waiting.
[01:12:27.370 --> 01:12:34.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's really what we needed to convey, and I really think we did that on that what was to be the last night.
[01:12:34.590 --> 01:12:35.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, here's where it gets interesting.
[01:12:36.750 --> 01:12:39.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: We did all kinds of neat things.
[01:12:39.650 --> 01:12:48.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, wandered around the city, went to all-night supermarkets, and basically played around with various technological tools.
[01:12:49.150 --> 01:12:51.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, we didn't break into any systems, don't worry about that.
[01:12:52.450 --> 01:12:58.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what everybody always assumes that hackers are up to, but hackers really are just interested in how it all works.
[01:12:58.390 --> 01:13:09.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we talk about cable TV, we talk about phone companies, we talk about new devices that are being released into the marketplace and how they could be improved and what's wrong with them and things like that.
[01:13:10.150 --> 01:13:12.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: What particular phone numbers do?
[01:13:12.610 --> 01:13:19.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the ANAC, the automatic number announcement for Philadelphia is also 958.
[01:13:20.310 --> 01:13:25.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: 958 is the number you dial to get your phone number, but you do that now in Philadelphia, 958.
[01:13:26.690 --> 01:13:27.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: That surprised me.
[01:13:28.490 --> 01:13:30.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: It surprised me when I worked in New Jersey, too.
[01:13:30.770 --> 01:13:34.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: 958 seems to be in a lot of places that we didn't know about originally.
[01:13:36.290 --> 01:13:39.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, this is where things started getting kind of weird.
[01:13:41.770 --> 01:13:50.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: Late Thursday night, we decided to call the prison and school kill to find out exactly what time we had to drop him off.
[01:13:50.270 --> 01:13:52.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: For instance, did he have to be in by noon?
[01:13:52.370 --> 01:13:53.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did he have to be in by 6 o'clock?
[01:13:53.970 --> 01:13:54.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: What was the deal?
[01:13:55.710 --> 01:14:01.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: And basically, they said, well, as long as he's there by 1159 p.m., he's okay.
[01:14:01.390 --> 01:14:03.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he just has to show up at some point during that day.
[01:14:03.530 --> 01:14:15.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that was really, really good news because it meant that Phiber could go to the meeting in Philadelphia, the 2600 meeting, which took place on that Friday since it was the first Friday of the month.
[01:14:16.930 --> 01:14:18.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was good news.
[01:14:18.890 --> 01:14:28.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: And when we got up the next day, we realized that things had gotten a little complicated because all of a sudden, Philadelphia was hit real hard by an ice storm.
[01:14:29.110 --> 01:14:31.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: First one in more than 10 years.
[01:14:32.790 --> 01:14:35.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a sign from the heavens.
[01:14:36.190 --> 01:14:39.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: The day Phiber goes to prison and the whole area is hit by an ice storm.
[01:14:39.830 --> 01:14:41.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's got to be something to that.
[01:14:41.990 --> 01:14:51.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, listening to the weather channel and radio stations and all that kind of thing, everybody is saying don't travel.
[01:14:53.150 --> 01:14:59.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't go on long rides into the countryside to drop people off in prison or anything of that nature.
[01:14:59.530 --> 01:15:00.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're crazy if you do.
[01:15:01.050 --> 01:15:01.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: You'll die.
[01:15:02.030 --> 01:15:03.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: You will get into accidents.
[01:15:04.210 --> 01:15:05.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's extremely hazardous.
[01:15:06.710 --> 01:15:11.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, we looked at this and we said, well, this sure seems like a sign too.
[01:15:11.510 --> 01:15:12.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what do we do now?
[01:15:12.870 --> 01:15:18.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have to get this poor guy to prison and the roads are closed.
[01:15:18.490 --> 01:15:21.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, we called the prison again and said, hey, you know, this is interesting.
[01:15:21.530 --> 01:15:25.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: We can't get this person to you because the roads are closed.
[01:15:25.610 --> 01:15:26.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: What do we do?
[01:15:26.890 --> 01:15:28.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, their answer was very good.
[01:15:29.010 --> 01:15:32.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: Their answer was, well, get here when you can get here.
[01:15:33.670 --> 01:15:36.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of a nice thing for a prison to say.
[01:15:36.330 --> 01:15:40.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, basically, what it meant was we could get there when we could get there.
[01:15:40.950 --> 01:15:51.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, we couldn't make this go on forever, but for this particular day, it appeared that Phiber had gotten a one-day reprieve thanks to nature.
[01:15:52.410 --> 01:15:53.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to nature.
[01:15:53.490 --> 01:15:56.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's just incredible.
[01:15:56.370 --> 01:16:04.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, we stumbled down to the 2600 meeting in Philadelphia, literally, because the streets were completely iced over.
[01:16:05.010 --> 01:16:08.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: And in Philadelphia, people don't really have the same kind of spirit as they do in New York.
[01:16:09.110 --> 01:16:10.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not life as usual.
[01:16:10.950 --> 01:16:11.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: Life does not go on.
[01:16:12.090 --> 01:16:13.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Life stops when something like that happens.
[01:16:13.990 --> 01:16:14.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: People stay indoors.
[01:16:15.630 --> 01:16:17.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know what they do.
[01:16:17.150 --> 01:16:19.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: They watch TV or something, but they don't do anything outdoors.
[01:16:19.650 --> 01:16:21.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: And most of the city was just completely shut down.
[01:16:22.490 --> 01:16:29.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: But we wandered around for hours in the streets, slipping and falling and having all kinds of fun.
[01:16:30.090 --> 01:16:32.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the next day came.
[01:16:33.530 --> 01:16:34.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Next day being Saturday.
[01:16:35.310 --> 01:16:41.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: And things were melted to the point where we could pretty much make it without too much of a hazard.
[01:16:42.050 --> 01:16:49.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: So late that afternoon we started out on our drive to the strange place called Schuylkill.
[01:16:49.570 --> 01:16:53.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: Schuylkill, Pennsylvania, which is where Phiber Optics Prison is.
[01:16:56.010 --> 01:17:00.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a long drive, about two hours or so.
[01:17:01.730 --> 01:17:05.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we kind of went further and further into the darkness.
[01:17:05.770 --> 01:17:09.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: It was probably one of the coldest days ever.
[01:17:09.390 --> 01:17:16.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're driving down these country roads in the cold darkness not knowing where we're going to wind up next.
[01:17:17.310 --> 01:17:20.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we found ourselves in, of all places, Frackville.
[01:17:21.030 --> 01:17:24.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now those of you who are in the hacker world know that Phrack is a magazine.
[01:17:24.450 --> 01:17:26.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: A magazine for phone freaks and computer hackers.
[01:17:27.570 --> 01:17:37.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: And for Phiber's prison to be next to a town called Frackville, that's just too crazy to believe.
[01:17:38.270 --> 01:17:39.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's not spelled the same way.
[01:17:39.990 --> 01:17:44.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: Phrack magazine is spelled P-H-R-A-C-K and Frackville is spelled F-R-A-C-K.
[01:17:46.550 --> 01:17:54.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was good enough though, and we were looking around for a place to take a picture because we figure here we are in Frackville.
[01:17:54.830 --> 01:17:56.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: When are we ever going to be in Frackville again?
[01:17:56.670 --> 01:18:00.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: Probably when we pick Phiber up, but not before then certainly.
[01:18:01.070 --> 01:18:07.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't it be cool to get a picture of Phiber Optik standing in front of a post office or something with Frackville on it?
[01:18:08.330 --> 01:18:10.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're looking around for a good sign.
[01:18:10.810 --> 01:18:13.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're looking for something to take a picture of for
[01:18:20.310 --> 01:18:23.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: two cops are going into the convenience store for whatever.
[01:18:24.130 --> 01:18:25.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when it hit us.
[01:18:25.310 --> 01:18:28.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's when we realized this is the picture we have to get.
[01:18:28.850 --> 01:18:34.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have to get those two cops to pose with fiber optic in front of their police car that says Frackville police on it.
[01:18:35.230 --> 01:18:36.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
[01:18:36.550 --> 01:18:37.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: We did.
[01:18:37.530 --> 01:18:38.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: We did and it wasn't hard.
[01:18:39.590 --> 01:18:43.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: All we had to do was ask them and they were very happy to do that.
[01:18:44.010 --> 01:18:48.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the silliest picture you've probably ever seen but it was fun.
[01:18:48.870 --> 01:18:49.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of fun.
[01:18:51.530 --> 01:18:59.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that was really the last fun thing we were able to do because the next town over was Minersville and Minersville is where the prison is.
[01:19:00.170 --> 01:19:05.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we hopped down the interstate for one exit went over to Minersville and found the
[01:19:11.150 --> 01:19:11.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: places.
[01:19:12.250 --> 01:19:22.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a big college campus but all the buildings are extremely well lit and there's lots of fences and lots of big signs saying what you
[01:19:41.150 --> 01:20:03.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: maybe it won't be so bad maybe things will be optimistic you know and so we went over to the administration building which is where we figured we were supposed to drop him off and what do you know the administration building was locked and we had to wonder to ourselves well how do No why have the so
[01:20:06.830 --> 01:20:12.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: we called them from the car phone them Which confused the people at the prison no end.
[01:20:12.330 --> 01:20:14.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: We said, hey, we're in front of the administration building.
[01:20:14.210 --> 01:20:18.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to figure out how to check in a prisoner, a prisoner-to-be, that is.
[01:20:18.230 --> 01:20:21.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they said, well, there's no way you could be in front of the administration building.
[01:20:21.230 --> 01:20:22.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we said, no, we're here.
[01:20:22.730 --> 01:20:23.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: There it is.
[01:20:23.230 --> 01:20:24.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're right in front of it.
[01:20:24.690 --> 01:20:27.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't really know what a car phone was capable of.
[01:20:28.090 --> 01:20:33.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: And once we finally explained it to them, they said, okay, meet us down at the bottom of the hill in this particular building.
[01:20:33.110 --> 01:20:33.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where we went.
[01:20:34.390 --> 01:20:36.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there were five of us along with Phiber.
[01:20:37.910 --> 01:20:41.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we walked up to the building.
[01:20:42.170 --> 01:20:47.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, keep in mind, we had been through a lot at this point.
[01:20:48.210 --> 01:20:50.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'd been through the trek to Philadelphia.
[01:20:50.970 --> 01:20:52.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'd been through the ice storm.
[01:20:53.050 --> 01:20:56.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'd been through all kinds of shenanigans on the street.
[01:20:56.670 --> 01:20:58.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: The 2600 meeting in Philadelphia.
[01:21:00.270 --> 01:21:06.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: All kinds of trips to all-night supermarkets, power outages, road hazards of various sorts.
[01:21:07.050 --> 01:21:10.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the long trip into the countryside and the Frackville police and all that.
[01:21:10.270 --> 01:21:12.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, every single bit of it was fun.
[01:21:13.590 --> 01:21:16.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Every single bit of it was a good time for all of us.
[01:21:16.830 --> 01:21:18.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like the ultimate road trip.
[01:21:18.990 --> 01:21:27.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, when we walked into that place where the guard was waiting for us, we all felt kind of up.
[01:21:27.870 --> 01:21:29.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we felt kind of positive.
[01:21:29.170 --> 01:21:32.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: We felt like everything is going okay.
[01:21:32.810 --> 01:21:32.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:21:35.530 --> 01:21:43.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, when we got there, the first thing the prison guard said to us was, which one of you are immediate family?
[01:21:43.890 --> 01:21:46.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we were his friends.
[01:21:46.910 --> 01:21:48.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: None of us were immediate family.
[01:21:48.190 --> 01:21:51.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, we said, well, none of us are immediate family.
[01:21:52.110 --> 01:21:52.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're his friends.
[01:21:54.510 --> 01:22:00.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: At that point, the guy said, well, the only one I need is just him.
[01:22:02.310 --> 01:22:06.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he asked Phiber if he had anything worth over $100 on him.
[01:22:07.730 --> 01:22:08.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: And Phiber said, no.
[01:22:10.190 --> 01:22:11.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the guy said, well, that's it then.
[01:22:11.910 --> 01:22:12.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: He's ours now.
[01:22:12.850 --> 01:22:13.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: Goodbye.
[01:22:15.910 --> 01:22:17.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we had to go.
[01:22:19.270 --> 01:22:21.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: Without even saying goodbye, we had to go.
[01:22:23.170 --> 01:22:26.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: He was pulled into the prison.
[01:22:27.650 --> 01:22:33.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: Last thing I saw was him removing his hood because it was so cold outside.
[01:22:33.450 --> 01:22:35.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he was gone just like that.
[01:22:36.210 --> 01:22:36.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that quickly.
[01:22:38.550 --> 01:22:43.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: Two questions and no time to react.
[01:22:45.950 --> 01:22:52.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, of course, as we left, we ran into another problem because we had a video camera with us.
[01:22:53.790 --> 01:22:59.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: And this other guard came out, this really evil-looking guy, and he said, you know, you're not allowed to film the prison.
[01:23:00.090 --> 01:23:01.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we said, okay, we won't film the prison then.
[01:23:03.550 --> 01:23:05.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then he said, well, I'm going to have to take your film.
[01:23:07.550 --> 01:23:18.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, keep in mind, this film, which really is a videotape, actually, this had everything that we had done over the past couple of days on it, you know?
[01:23:18.770 --> 01:23:21.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: All those memories, all those fun times.
[01:23:21.830 --> 01:23:27.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: And now, because of some bureaucratic nonsense...
[01:23:27.050 --> 01:23:29.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, there are no signs anywhere saying you can't have a video camera.
[01:23:30.150 --> 01:23:36.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: But because this guy didn't like the fact that we had a camera there, he's going to confiscate our film?
[01:23:39.170 --> 01:23:40.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, we did the only thing we could do.
[01:23:41.750 --> 01:23:47.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: I stayed to argue with the guy while other people moved away with the camera.
[01:23:50.330 --> 01:23:54.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they moved away quickly enough for him to realize that it was a pointless situation.
[01:23:54.490 --> 01:23:57.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Even if he was able to get the camera, he probably would never find the videocassette.
[01:23:59.450 --> 01:24:06.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so he stopped with that particular line of demands and just said that we had to get out of there.
[01:24:08.170 --> 01:24:12.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we did, but I'll tell you, it was a very bad feeling from that point on.
[01:24:12.530 --> 01:24:17.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: We had a long drive back to New York and one less person in the car.
[01:24:19.890 --> 01:24:22.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that was it.
[01:24:23.850 --> 01:24:24.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: That was how it ended.
[01:24:26.090 --> 01:24:29.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: In a rather somber way.
[01:24:31.690 --> 01:24:41.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I understand we have some news as to Fiverr's condition, his whereabouts, that kind of thing.
[01:24:41.330 --> 01:24:44.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to be updating people on that around 1130.
[01:24:49.090 --> 01:24:53.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, I guess the main part about all this is that he's there.
[01:24:53.550 --> 01:24:59.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be there for a while, and he certainly could use all the support he can get.
[01:25:00.550 --> 01:25:10.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: No place has that support been more apparent than on the computer system that he was designing at the time that he was forced to leave, that being the Echo computer system in New York.
[01:25:11.690 --> 01:25:21.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that happened right after the radio program last week, kind of a spontaneous tribute, I guess, was people started changing their names.
[01:25:22.910 --> 01:25:29.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: On the computer system, people started changing their names to have last names of Optic or first names of Fiverr.
[01:25:30.050 --> 01:25:33.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: And before you knew it, there were a couple of dozen people that had changed their names.
[01:25:33.450 --> 01:25:35.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: It was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen.
[01:25:37.790 --> 01:25:43.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he knew about this going down to Philadelphia, and he thought it was pretty cool, too, that people would actually do something like that.
[01:25:44.370 --> 01:25:48.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really something how the online community can bolster your spirits.
[01:25:49.830 --> 01:25:51.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because they're out there.
[01:25:51.190 --> 01:25:52.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're always out there.
[01:25:52.630 --> 01:25:53.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're always reachable.
[01:25:54.810 --> 01:26:04.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it can be 5 o'clock in the morning, but you can still talk to somebody on the Internet through some sort of a chat system in some part of the world.
[01:26:04.670 --> 01:26:05.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it doesn't matter where they are.
[01:26:06.050 --> 01:26:07.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter what time it is.
[01:26:07.390 --> 01:26:08.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter who they are.
[01:26:09.730 --> 01:26:11.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can always reach them.
[01:26:14.030 --> 01:26:18.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's ironic, you know, that he's in a place now where he can't do that.
[01:26:18.650 --> 01:26:20.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: He can't have access to all this.
[01:26:21.530 --> 01:26:22.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's talking about it.
[01:26:22.790 --> 01:26:23.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody is sending messages.
[01:26:23.910 --> 01:26:27.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: But he's going to have to write things out by hand.
[01:26:28.330 --> 01:26:30.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: Probably won't even be allowed to have a typewriter.
[01:26:32.190 --> 01:26:48.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: He'll have to go around scrubbing floors and cleaning toilets and whatever else they say he has to do for the next year instead of designing computer systems and getting people hooked up and fixing telephone problems and answering questions here on Off the Hook.
[01:26:50.290 --> 01:26:51.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how it works.
[01:26:51.390 --> 01:26:52.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the justice system.
[01:26:54.130 --> 01:26:57.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you look at people that really commit crimes.
[01:26:57.210 --> 01:26:59.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm talking about crimes where people get hurt.
[01:27:00.350 --> 01:27:03.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, robberies, muggings, killings even.
[01:27:04.270 --> 01:27:06.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you look at them being sent to prison.
[01:27:07.590 --> 01:27:21.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: And while they may get sent to a prison that is filled with more people like them, supposedly Phiber is in a camp-type setting, the fact of the matter is they're confined just as much as he is confined.
[01:27:21.350 --> 01:27:29.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: He's kept away from us just as much as those really evil criminals, as we're led to believe they are, are kept away from us.
[01:27:31.410 --> 01:27:33.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how society deals with the problem.
[01:27:33.430 --> 01:27:37.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: They try to shut it out instead of solving the problem.
[01:27:37.970 --> 01:27:40.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: What problem was solved by locking this person up?
[01:27:40.270 --> 01:27:41.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: I do not know.
[01:27:43.950 --> 01:27:48.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing it's done is strengthen the resolve of people that are outraged by this kind of thing.
[01:27:49.070 --> 01:27:51.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: Supposedly federal sentencing guidelines are going to be changed.
[01:27:52.250 --> 01:27:53.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: There are proposals on the books.
[01:27:57.150 --> 01:27:58.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of ironic.
[01:27:58.830 --> 01:28:10.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very ironic that maybe in another year where Phiber Optik is spending a year in prison for someone else may not spend any time in prison for.
[01:28:10.550 --> 01:28:13.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, that's the way it should be, but it'll come too late for him.
[01:28:16.010 --> 01:28:31.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: The people here at WBAI, the listeners of this particular radio station, they also meant quite a lot to Phiber Optik, knowing that there's a lot of people out there that care, that are listening, that are following the whole saga.
[01:28:33.170 --> 01:28:35.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're a part of this as much as anybody else.
[01:28:36.750 --> 01:28:44.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just great to know that you're out there, that everybody cares in one way or another.
[01:28:44.710 --> 01:28:49.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we're going to be giving out his address, and hopefully a lot of you can write.
[01:28:49.630 --> 01:28:53.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's certain things that you can send, certain things you can't send.
[01:28:54.790 --> 01:28:57.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll go into detail as far as all that goes.
[01:28:57.070 --> 01:29:00.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'll tell you, speaking honestly now, it's different here.
[01:29:01.390 --> 01:29:02.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's different here.
[01:29:02.650 --> 01:29:10.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there have been weeks when Phiber hasn't been here, obviously, but this is the first week where we know he's not going to be here for a long time.
[01:29:11.250 --> 01:29:16.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it comes out over the airwaves as it comes out here in the studio, but it's sad.
[01:29:19.810 --> 01:29:22.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's not really much more I can say on that subject, I guess.
[01:29:24.670 --> 01:29:28.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our phone number, as I've been saying, is 212-279-3400.
[01:29:28.810 --> 01:29:32.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is a pledge drive show.
[01:29:33.510 --> 01:29:35.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad we have the extra time.
[01:29:35.110 --> 01:29:40.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of weird having a pledge drive show at such a strange time in the history of everything.
[01:29:42.170 --> 01:29:47.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, hey, if you're out there and you can show some support, we do appreciate it here.
[01:29:47.630 --> 01:29:49.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:29:49.730 --> 01:30:03.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess one thing that is really, really important, one illustration of all this, if this show was not here, how many of you would ever have heard about what just happened?
[01:30:04.110 --> 01:30:07.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: How many of you would have lived this out for the last several months?
[01:30:07.750 --> 01:30:08.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's painful.
[01:30:09.330 --> 01:30:14.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you, it's been depressing the last couple of days, but there's a different kind of depression.
[01:30:14.670 --> 01:30:19.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a kind of depression where you kind of feed on yourself and you don't feel motivated to do anything.
[01:30:19.410 --> 01:30:28.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's the righteous depression where you're pissed off by something and you know something isn't right.
[01:30:30.150 --> 01:30:33.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the kind of depression that makes you want to go out and do something.
[01:30:34.150 --> 01:30:35.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Do something meaningful.
[01:30:35.950 --> 01:30:39.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: You may not know quite what that is, But you know you have to do something.
[01:30:40.750 --> 01:30:41.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know that...
[01:30:43.130 --> 01:30:45.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: that something's all fouled up in the system.
[01:30:46.290 --> 01:30:47.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that something is not you.
[01:30:50.030 --> 01:30:50.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got...
[01:30:51.190 --> 01:30:53.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: the sense in your head to realize this.
[01:30:54.470 --> 01:30:56.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's how a lot of us feel.
[01:30:58.730 --> 01:31:00.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're depressed, but we're angry.
[01:31:02.330 --> 01:31:02.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: And...
[01:31:04.250 --> 01:31:06.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: in the right sense, you know, that can do a lot.
[01:31:07.870 --> 01:31:10.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Enough people get together that feel that way.
[01:31:10.290 --> 01:31:11.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: They can move mountains.
[01:31:12.670 --> 01:31:14.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we have to do with regards to...
[01:31:14.970 --> 01:31:16.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: the way these particular things happen.
[01:31:16.610 --> 01:31:19.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: We can't keep sending intelligent young people to prison.
[01:31:20.550 --> 01:31:22.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: For being intelligent young people.
[01:31:22.670 --> 01:31:23.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's sick.
[01:31:24.270 --> 01:31:26.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a sickness of our society.
[01:31:26.930 --> 01:31:29.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's one that we're allowing to spread.
[01:31:30.590 --> 01:31:32.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: And God knows where it's going to end...
[01:31:32.750 --> 01:31:33.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: if it keeps up like this.
[01:31:36.170 --> 01:31:36.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's scary.
[01:31:37.010 --> 01:31:37.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: It really is.
[01:31:38.290 --> 01:31:39.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please give us a call.
[01:31:40.430 --> 01:31:41.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: Show your support.
[01:31:41.550 --> 01:31:43.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because showing support for the radio station...
[01:31:43.430 --> 01:31:45.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: will ensure that we're here.
[01:31:45.390 --> 01:31:46.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're a strong voice.
[01:31:46.730 --> 01:31:47.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to people.
[01:31:48.670 --> 01:31:50.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we weren't able to prevent this.
[01:31:50.530 --> 01:31:50.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[01:31:52.290 --> 01:31:52.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: But...
[01:31:53.550 --> 01:31:55.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: at least we're able to get people...
[01:31:55.470 --> 01:31:56.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: to hear about it.
[01:31:57.250 --> 01:31:58.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how it is...
[01:31:58.730 --> 01:32:00.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: around the clock here at this place.
[01:32:01.690 --> 01:32:02.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're here.
[01:32:03.130 --> 01:32:04.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: We tell people things.
[01:32:04.550 --> 01:32:05.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: We spread information.
[01:32:06.190 --> 01:32:07.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: We spread the news.
[01:32:08.190 --> 01:32:09.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: People learn.
[01:32:09.190 --> 01:32:09.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: People do things.
[01:32:09.890 --> 01:32:10.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: People are inspired.
[01:32:12.390 --> 01:32:13.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's all about.
[01:32:14.730 --> 01:32:16.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:32:16.090 --> 01:32:17.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have two phone calls on the line.
[01:32:17.590 --> 01:32:19.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if we can get a flurry here.
[01:32:20.930 --> 01:32:21.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: And...
[01:32:22.310 --> 01:32:24.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to say do it for fiber optic...
[01:32:24.150 --> 01:32:25.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: because that's just too...
[01:32:26.810 --> 01:32:27.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's just...
[01:32:27.410 --> 01:32:28.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to do that.
[01:32:28.850 --> 01:32:29.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: But...
[01:32:29.170 --> 01:32:30.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: do it for yourselves.
[01:32:31.410 --> 01:32:32.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: Do it for...
[01:32:33.450 --> 01:32:34.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: for the radio station.
[01:32:34.750 --> 01:32:35.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: For off the hook.
[01:32:35.830 --> 01:32:36.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: For everything that...
[01:32:36.850 --> 01:32:38.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: we've brought you in the past...
[01:32:38.130 --> 01:32:39.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: and will bring you in the future.
[01:32:40.250 --> 01:32:41.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of...
[01:32:41.670 --> 01:32:43.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: of stories out there to be told.
[01:32:43.650 --> 01:32:45.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: A whole other year is ahead of us.
[01:32:46.330 --> 01:32:48.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: And while fiber may not be here...
[01:32:48.210 --> 01:32:49.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to keep going.
[01:32:49.430 --> 01:32:50.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to keep telling you things...
[01:32:50.750 --> 01:32:52.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: and spreading more information around.
[01:32:52.730 --> 01:32:54.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's a lot of things happening.
[01:32:54.350 --> 01:32:55.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of...
[01:32:55.870 --> 01:32:57.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of new bits of technology.
[01:32:57.750 --> 01:32:58.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's one right here.
[01:33:00.130 --> 01:33:01.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: The brand new MetroCard.
[01:33:02.830 --> 01:33:04.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what a MetroCard sounds like.
[01:33:05.350 --> 01:33:06.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: As you hit it against a microphone.
[01:33:07.690 --> 01:33:09.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a light piece of plastic.
[01:33:10.830 --> 01:33:12.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: With a magnetic strip.
[01:33:12.210 --> 01:33:12.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
[01:33:12.750 --> 01:33:13.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to play with this.
[01:33:14.430 --> 01:33:15.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to play with this.
[01:33:24.660 --> 01:33:26.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to thank the people for calling in.
[01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:28.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we...
[01:33:28.700 --> 01:33:30.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: I understand Phiber Optik's father was on the phone.
[01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:32.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he had heard from him today.
[01:33:32.700 --> 01:33:34.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to get into some more detail on that...
[01:33:34.360 --> 01:33:35.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: in just a couple of minutes.
[01:33:35.340 --> 01:33:36.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: So stay with us.
[01:33:37.220 --> 01:33:41.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: As I was saying, the MetroCards are being introduced.
[01:33:41.220 --> 01:33:43.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's something we're going to be focusing some attention on here.
[01:33:43.620 --> 01:33:45.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's a technological issue.
[01:33:46.960 --> 01:33:48.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many of you have held these things.
[01:33:50.400 --> 01:33:51.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Boy, they're flimsy.
[01:33:51.800 --> 01:33:53.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: These things are really, really flimsy.
[01:33:53.920 --> 01:33:55.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: I could break one with one finger.
[01:33:56.720 --> 01:33:58.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, on the back...
[01:33:59.800 --> 01:34:02.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: On the back is rather interesting information.
[01:34:02.220 --> 01:34:04.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's printed in dot matrix.
[01:34:06.160 --> 01:34:07.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a date.
[01:34:07.860 --> 01:34:09.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: The date is April 30th, 1995.
[01:34:10.960 --> 01:34:12.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that means.
[01:34:12.320 --> 01:34:15.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's an expiration date or something or what.
[01:34:15.320 --> 01:34:16.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's another date.
[01:34:16.780 --> 01:34:18.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: 07-03-94.
[01:34:20.120 --> 01:34:21.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they explain all this.
[01:34:21.280 --> 01:34:21.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great.
[01:34:23.500 --> 01:34:24.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see here.
[01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:25.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Expiration date.
[01:34:25.660 --> 01:34:27.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: How can a MetroCard have an expiration date?
[01:34:27.980 --> 01:34:28.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it does.
[01:34:28.800 --> 01:34:31.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they all say 4-30-95, according to this.
[01:34:32.100 --> 01:34:34.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Then there's a six-digit number for internal use.
[01:34:35.060 --> 01:34:36.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Which, to me, looks like a date.
[01:34:36.280 --> 01:34:37.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: 07-03-94.
[01:34:38.320 --> 01:34:40.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Then there's a unique ten-digit serial number.
[01:34:41.560 --> 01:34:44.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you my unique ten-digit serial number, because who cares?
[01:34:45.400 --> 01:34:48.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: 0-0-1-7-2-9-0-3-0-1.
[01:34:48.960 --> 01:34:50.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what you can do with that number, but...
[01:34:50.560 --> 01:34:52.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: By all means, try and figure it out.
[01:34:52.820 --> 01:34:55.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: 0-0-1-7-2-9-0-3-0-1.
[01:34:57.220 --> 01:34:58.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's pretty much it.
[01:34:59.340 --> 01:35:01.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Subject to applicable tariffs and conditions of use.
[01:35:01.660 --> 01:35:04.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: Introducing MetroCard, BigCity, FastCard, FairDeal.
[01:35:04.700 --> 01:35:07.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, they spell Fair, F-A-R-E.
[01:35:08.880 --> 01:35:13.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can call 1-800-METRO-CARD if you feel like dialing extra digits.
[01:35:14.740 --> 01:35:17.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or you can dial 1-800-METRO-CAH.
[01:35:17.420 --> 01:35:19.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: And leave off the R and the D, because you don't need to dial those.
[01:35:20.380 --> 01:35:23.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: In New York City, dial 212-638-7622.
[01:35:24.580 --> 01:35:28.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can get these now on various subway stations.
[01:35:28.620 --> 01:35:29.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: I know Wall Street is one of them.
[01:35:30.060 --> 01:35:32.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: And soon you'll be able to get them in many places.
[01:35:32.860 --> 01:35:37.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm told there's a problem in that people swipe the card too slowly.
[01:35:37.800 --> 01:35:38.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to swipe it fast.
[01:35:41.400 --> 01:35:43.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: So again, we'll be getting into more detail on this.
[01:35:43.320 --> 01:35:47.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's just one little thing that we're going to experiment with.
[01:35:47.400 --> 01:35:48.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And tell you things about.
[01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:50.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully our listeners out there will experiment too.
[01:35:51.480 --> 01:35:53.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:35:54.580 --> 01:35:57.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're up to $1,195.
[01:35:57.480 --> 01:36:00.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'd like to get that up a bit higher.
[01:36:01.720 --> 01:36:04.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we hope some of you give us a call now.
[01:36:04.440 --> 01:36:05.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:36:06.040 --> 01:36:10.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, we're not going to be on again during this marathon period.
[01:36:11.060 --> 01:36:14.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: So we need people to call us now.
[01:36:15.020 --> 01:36:22.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, those of you that call in with a $75 pledge will receive a full year of 2600 magazine, The Hacker Quarterly.
[01:36:23.040 --> 01:36:30.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Where you will learn about all kinds of things like telephone switching systems and fare cards as well, I guess.
[01:36:30.600 --> 01:36:35.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: And all kinds of other neat, nifty things that technology is doing for us.
[01:36:35.620 --> 01:36:37.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or not doing for us.
[01:36:38.040 --> 01:36:41.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: You'll learn about various phone company rip-offs throughout the world.
[01:36:41.840 --> 01:36:43.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: And phone company advances.
[01:36:43.260 --> 01:36:45.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: They do advance sometimes and do some kind of neat things.
[01:36:46.300 --> 01:36:49.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's a bit of information you would see in 2600 magazine.
[01:36:49.500 --> 01:36:52.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: The area code split.
[01:36:53.300 --> 01:36:54.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there have been area code splits before.
[01:36:54.980 --> 01:36:57.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen 718 show up from 212.
[01:36:58.180 --> 01:37:00.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen 917 pop in out of nowhere.
[01:37:00.540 --> 01:37:04.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen the New Jersey area codes.
[01:37:04.260 --> 01:37:08.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a new Philadelphia area code of 610, which is kind of a neat one.
[01:37:08.820 --> 01:37:12.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: But nothing compares to what's going to be happening in the state of Washington.
[01:37:13.080 --> 01:37:18.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: The 206 area code in Washington state will be splitting to 360.
[01:37:20.460 --> 01:37:22.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: 360 as an area code.
[01:37:22.200 --> 01:37:28.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that's different because most area codes, actually all area codes, have either 0 or 1 as the middle digits.
[01:37:28.560 --> 01:37:31.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's going to change as of January 1995.
[01:37:34.060 --> 01:37:38.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: And 360 is one of the results of that.
[01:37:38.960 --> 01:37:41.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's going to happen next January as well.
[01:37:41.920 --> 01:37:43.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be an immediate split.
[01:37:44.620 --> 01:37:45.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: 360.
[01:37:46.620 --> 01:37:47.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: The world is changing.
[01:37:49.840 --> 01:37:53.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll show you exactly how things are happening.
[01:37:53.400 --> 01:38:16.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what we're going to do now is give a call over to Echo, which is the system that fiber optic, who many of you know as Mark, we can call him that, has worked on for quite some time, and designed, and we're going to call now and see if we can get some more information as to his condition.
[01:38:16.500 --> 01:38:19.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, our phone number, 212-279-3400.
[01:38:20.140 --> 01:38:21.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please call and show your support.
[01:38:24.220 --> 01:38:24.660]  Echo?
[01:38:25.200 --> 01:38:27.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, this is Emmanuel over at WBAI.
[01:38:28.900 --> 01:38:32.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Emmanuel, I happen to be on the phone with Mark right now.
[01:38:32.840 --> 01:38:33.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you call back?
[01:38:34.160 --> 01:38:35.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm getting some more information.
[01:38:36.140 --> 01:38:37.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you able to three-way?
[01:38:37.780 --> 01:38:41.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they tape all the conversations, and they would not be happy about it.
[01:38:41.660 --> 01:38:42.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right.
[01:38:44.120 --> 01:38:46.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, when do you want us to call you back?
[01:38:47.220 --> 01:38:50.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he can stay on for 15 minutes, so like, I guess 10 minutes?
[01:38:51.180 --> 01:38:51.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[01:38:52.220 --> 01:38:52.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:38:52.500 --> 01:38:53.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: Want me to call you?
[01:38:53.740 --> 01:38:57.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you might have some trouble getting through, because our lines are kind of tied up.
[01:38:57.440 --> 01:38:58.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Call me in 10 minutes, or is that too late?
[01:38:58.860 --> 01:39:03.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll call you in 10 minutes, and say that we're all pulling for Mark here.
[01:39:03.740 --> 01:39:04.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: I will.
[01:39:04.440 --> 01:39:06.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess there's really nothing else.
[01:39:06.420 --> 01:39:09.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell him to write to us as quickly as possible.
[01:39:09.400 --> 01:39:12.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Does he have your address at WBAI, or where did she write you to?
[01:39:12.220 --> 01:39:14.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, he can write to us at the address I gave him.
[01:39:14.360 --> 01:39:14.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
[01:39:15.020 --> 01:39:15.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll tell him.
[01:39:15.780 --> 01:39:16.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we'll call you right back.
[01:39:16.900 --> 01:39:17.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, bye.
[01:39:18.500 --> 01:39:19.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, he's on the phone right now.
[01:39:19.940 --> 01:39:20.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good sign.
[01:39:21.460 --> 01:39:22.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Too bad we can't talk to him.
[01:39:22.660 --> 01:39:23.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't like three-way.
[01:39:23.640 --> 01:39:24.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't like things like that.
[01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:33.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: But the only kinds of calls he can make are collect calls, and of course, our collect call capabilities are blocked here, so that's not a possibility.
[01:39:33.880 --> 01:39:38.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: But hopefully, we'll be able to talk to him in person one way or another.
[01:39:39.140 --> 01:39:43.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: So while we're waiting for that information, let's see a flurry of calls, please.
[01:39:44.460 --> 01:40:04.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400, because we'll be getting information as to what exactly is going on with him, and that will probably take up the rest of the hour, so the time that we're spending waiting for that particular bit of information is a time that hopefully will be well spent by getting people to call.
[01:40:04.720 --> 01:40:08.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you've never called in before, this is a good time to start.
[01:40:08.800 --> 01:40:11.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:40:11.160 --> 01:40:12.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: There is nobody on the line right now.
[01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:14.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're a program.
[01:40:14.880 --> 01:40:17.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Off the Hook has been on the air for several years now.
[01:40:18.880 --> 01:40:27.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we have kept you updated on all the various issues of both the hacker world and the consumer world.
[01:40:27.560 --> 01:40:35.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: We've shown you things, like for instance, the MCI Friends and Family program, which I don't know if many of you have that still.
[01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:39.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think after listening to what we did, a lot of people canceled it.
[01:40:39.720 --> 01:40:46.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Friends and Family is a system that MCI used to allegedly save people money.
[01:40:46.500 --> 01:40:55.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you call somebody that uses MCI and you use MCI, well, you save money when you call them because they're in your circle, your friends and family circle.
[01:40:56.120 --> 01:41:02.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: And basically, you get a list of people, your friends and your family, that are in your circle and you save money whenever you call them.
[01:41:03.340 --> 01:41:04.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really kind of neat.
[01:41:04.760 --> 01:41:05.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: But they have to use MCI.
[01:41:06.000 --> 01:41:06.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the condition.
[01:41:06.760 --> 01:41:07.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: They have to use MCI.
[01:41:08.740 --> 01:41:12.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, you know, a typical telemarketing technique there.
[01:41:13.860 --> 01:41:15.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we discovered something kind of interesting.
[01:41:16.860 --> 01:41:20.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, there's people out there that would say, you're not supposed to discover things like this.
[01:41:20.300 --> 01:41:21.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not supposed to play around with things like this.
[01:41:21.940 --> 01:41:22.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't do that.
[01:41:23.120 --> 01:41:24.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we did it anyway.
[01:41:24.740 --> 01:41:29.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: We found an 800 number that MCI friends and family subscribers get.
[01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:40.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: And by calling that particular number and entering in the phone number of the person who allegedly had the service, we could get information on their account.
[01:41:40.540 --> 01:41:42.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, of course, there was a security code.
[01:41:42.320 --> 01:41:44.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: To prevent unauthorized people from getting in.
[01:41:44.720 --> 01:41:48.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we found out the security code is the person's zip code.
[01:41:48.180 --> 01:41:51.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you know somebody's phone number, getting their zip code is not very difficult.
[01:41:53.900 --> 01:41:55.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, we were able to do that.
[01:41:55.980 --> 01:42:01.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know what we found when we got to that particular 800 number and we entered the valid information?
[01:42:01.700 --> 01:42:08.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: We got a listing of all the phone numbers that was on that person's friends and family circle.
[01:42:09.240 --> 01:42:11.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: And some of those numbers are unlisted phone numbers.
[01:42:12.320 --> 01:42:18.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: And not only did we get the phone numbers, we got the relation of those particular people to the original person.
[01:42:18.980 --> 01:42:23.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: For instance, here are the people on your friends and family calling circle.
[01:42:23.820 --> 01:42:25.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: Your sister at this particular number.
[01:42:25.940 --> 01:42:27.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Your friend at this particular number.
[01:42:28.040 --> 01:42:30.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Your business associate at this particular number.
[01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:36.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or the person you're having an affair with on this particular number, they would tell you your relationship to all these people.
[01:42:37.740 --> 01:42:39.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: And anybody could get it.
[01:42:39.340 --> 01:42:41.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, we showed it to you.
[01:42:41.160 --> 01:42:43.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: We showed it to you live on the radio.
[01:42:44.360 --> 01:42:45.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it got fixed.
[01:42:45.560 --> 01:42:46.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, sort of.
[01:42:47.060 --> 01:42:54.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they still have the same kind of system now, and they use part of the account number as your security code.
[01:42:54.520 --> 01:42:56.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very easy to get this information.
[01:42:56.420 --> 01:42:59.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very easy to get information from virtually any phone company.
[01:43:00.000 --> 01:43:00.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's scary.
[01:43:01.800 --> 01:43:05.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a scary situation, but it's not going to go away by ignoring it.
[01:43:06.800 --> 01:43:11.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: I like what our caller said a little while ago about Band-Aid solutions.
[01:43:12.780 --> 01:43:18.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, replacing Touch-Tone payphones with rotary phones does not stop drug trafficking.
[01:43:19.960 --> 01:43:24.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: And not having incoming calls on a payphone simply inconveniences everybody.
[01:43:26.480 --> 01:43:29.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: Outlawing beepers for kids under 18.
[01:43:30.400 --> 01:43:32.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't solve a thing.
[01:43:33.460 --> 01:43:36.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have to realize, what are the solutions and what are the problems?
[01:43:38.700 --> 01:43:42.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we try to bring you the problems and we try to bring you the solutions as well.
[01:43:42.500 --> 01:43:44.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: But tonight's a special night.
[01:43:44.700 --> 01:43:47.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Tonight's the night where you help provide the solution.
[01:43:49.120 --> 01:43:50.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:43:50.860 --> 01:43:54.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: By showing your support for this radio station, you keep us going.
[01:43:54.700 --> 01:43:56.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: You keep us strong.
[01:43:56.320 --> 01:43:59.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: You keep us in a position where we can do things like this.
[01:44:03.040 --> 01:44:04.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we do need to hear from you.
[01:44:04.820 --> 01:44:07.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:44:07.180 --> 01:44:08.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please give us a call.
[01:44:08.300 --> 01:44:09.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have no calls on the line right now.
[01:44:10.480 --> 01:44:14.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our total is just over $1,300, which is kind of neat.
[01:44:14.840 --> 01:44:16.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a nice number.
[01:44:16.700 --> 01:44:18.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: But it can get even nicer.
[01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:21.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:44:21.640 --> 01:44:22.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please give us a call.
[01:44:22.940 --> 01:44:24.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:44:26.880 --> 01:44:32.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's not so much support for one particular radio show.
[01:44:32.320 --> 01:44:35.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not in a competition against the other programs on this radio station.
[01:44:35.960 --> 01:44:44.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're a huge collective of people that pretty much stand behind each other as far as getting information out.
[01:44:44.680 --> 01:44:51.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: In that way, WBAI and hackers are rather similar because we all like to spread information.
[01:44:53.060 --> 01:44:57.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we just do it for the sake of doing it because we love doing it.
[01:44:57.420 --> 01:44:58.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's all about.
[01:44:59.640 --> 01:45:01.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:45:01.940 --> 01:45:06.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: WBAI is here for your purposes, whatever they may be.
[01:45:06.980 --> 01:45:21.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to learn about something that's going on in the Far East, if you want to learn about stuff that's happening in the White House, if you want to learn about technology, environmentalism, all kinds of things, this is the place to go to hear it.
[01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:24.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a reason why we do this.
[01:45:24.500 --> 01:45:29.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't ask for money to be annoying, although we can be annoying when we ask for money.
[01:45:30.000 --> 01:45:31.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: We all know that.
[01:45:31.780 --> 01:45:34.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: The fact of the matter is, we can't survive any other way.
[01:45:35.240 --> 01:45:36.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have commercials.
[01:45:37.080 --> 01:45:38.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we could get commercials.
[01:45:38.760 --> 01:45:39.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Easily.
[01:45:39.840 --> 01:45:41.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: A snap of our fingers we'd get commercials.
[01:45:42.420 --> 01:45:47.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're a powerful FM frequency in the middle of the FM dial in New York City.
[01:45:48.300 --> 01:45:49.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: We could sell this station.
[01:45:50.020 --> 01:45:51.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: We could make a ton of money.
[01:45:52.620 --> 01:45:54.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what could we use in this city?
[01:45:56.000 --> 01:45:57.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: Album-oriented rock?
[01:45:57.320 --> 01:45:58.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a Muzak station?
[01:45:58.900 --> 01:46:00.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they lost a classical station recently.
[01:46:00.920 --> 01:46:02.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we could start another one of those.
[01:46:04.760 --> 01:46:06.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's easy to do things like that.
[01:46:06.920 --> 01:46:12.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: But keeping WBAI as it is, I think, will be a lot more productive.
[01:46:13.420 --> 01:46:15.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, without your help, we can't do it.
[01:46:16.600 --> 01:46:18.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: And those aren't just idle words.
[01:46:18.180 --> 01:46:19.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the reality of the situation.
[01:46:19.560 --> 01:46:20.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have sponsors.
[01:46:21.140 --> 01:46:25.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have people that will pay us huge amounts of money for us to say that they're great.
[01:46:26.640 --> 01:46:28.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because we just don't do that.
[01:46:28.480 --> 01:46:31.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if we did that, we couldn't have the kinds of programs that we had.
[01:46:31.820 --> 01:46:32.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Even if we took underwriting.
[01:46:34.140 --> 01:46:37.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Underwriting is basically what PBS does.
[01:46:37.940 --> 01:46:43.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you watch public television, you'll see that virtually every program is paid for by some huge corporation somewhere.
[01:46:44.220 --> 01:46:46.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the route they chose to take.
[01:46:47.320 --> 01:46:50.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: We think if we took that route, it would affect the programming.
[01:46:51.460 --> 01:46:55.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: It would make for toned-down programs.
[01:46:55.740 --> 01:46:57.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we certainly don't want to do that.
[01:46:58.400 --> 01:47:00.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why all the support comes from our listeners.
[01:47:00.700 --> 01:47:04.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we've done quite well with our listeners up until now.
[01:47:04.260 --> 01:47:06.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: The station started in the early 60s.
[01:47:06.240 --> 01:47:07.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been going ever since.
[01:47:08.400 --> 01:47:10.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, you can make a difference.
[01:47:12.420 --> 01:47:16.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: In a world where you feel like an individual doesn't mean much.
[01:47:16.940 --> 01:47:19.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, believe me, it felt that way this past week.
[01:47:21.880 --> 01:47:22.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not true.
[01:47:23.080 --> 01:47:24.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Individuals mean a lot.
[01:47:24.120 --> 01:47:26.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the place where that can be proven.
[01:47:27.660 --> 01:47:29.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:47:29.580 --> 01:47:30.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have one call on the line.
[01:47:30.980 --> 01:47:31.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's make that three.
[01:47:33.100 --> 01:47:36.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to call up and find out about fiber optic.
[01:47:36.420 --> 01:47:37.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we should do that.
[01:47:38.160 --> 01:47:40.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll do that in about two minutes, I would say.
[01:47:40.880 --> 01:47:42.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: But please, let's get some more phone calls.
[01:47:43.060 --> 01:47:44.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:47:44.780 --> 01:47:45.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't take very long either.
[01:47:46.500 --> 01:47:48.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, we have a room full of volunteers.
[01:47:50.200 --> 01:47:55.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they will take information from you, such as your name and address and how much you want to pledge and that kind of thing.
[01:47:55.260 --> 01:47:58.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's all kind of neat.
[01:47:58.460 --> 01:48:00.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you feel like you've done something.
[01:48:00.980 --> 01:48:01.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know?
[01:48:02.000 --> 01:48:04.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: You ever feel like you're not accomplishing anything?
[01:48:05.540 --> 01:48:11.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, helping the station continue, believe me, is doing something.
[01:48:13.640 --> 01:48:15.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:48:15.780 --> 01:48:17.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Three calls on the line.
[01:48:18.120 --> 01:48:20.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's fill up that old switchboard one last time.
[01:48:21.040 --> 01:48:23.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, we're not going to be back again until February.
[01:48:23.660 --> 01:48:27.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:48:27.720 --> 01:48:30.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get those phones ringing.
[01:48:32.580 --> 01:48:50.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, everybody that calls in, pledges $75, will receive a full year of 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly, where you can find out all the latest technological innovations and all the latest in the hacker world, which is probably one of the most interesting worlds out there.
[01:48:52.340 --> 01:48:52.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[01:48:53.260 --> 01:48:55.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: We are running out of time.
[01:48:56.620 --> 01:48:59.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so are you, if you mean, to support this particular program.
[01:49:00.720 --> 01:49:03.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's find out what's going on.
[01:49:03.420 --> 01:49:06.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll call back to Stacey Horn over at Echo.
[01:49:07.860 --> 01:49:09.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get our trusty dial tone.
[01:49:12.370 --> 01:49:13.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: Which I can't seem to get.
[01:49:13.670 --> 01:49:14.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: There it is.
[01:49:17.970 --> 01:49:19.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: I dialed the wrong number.
[01:49:19.070 --> 01:49:19.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you like that?
[01:49:19.930 --> 01:49:20.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Boy, I feel silly.
[01:49:21.350 --> 01:49:22.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get a dial tone again.
[01:49:31.410 --> 01:49:31.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:49:32.090 --> 01:49:33.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have it now.
[01:49:33.650 --> 01:49:34.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if we actually get through here.
[01:50:00.780 --> 01:50:02.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll bet she's on call waiting.
[01:50:04.860 --> 01:50:05.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Echo?
[01:50:05.840 --> 01:50:06.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
[01:50:06.260 --> 01:50:06.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Is this Stacey?
[01:50:06.940 --> 01:50:07.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[01:50:07.320 --> 01:50:08.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, it's Emmanuel again.
[01:50:08.980 --> 01:50:09.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're not on the air, are we?
[01:50:10.040 --> 01:50:10.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we are.
[01:50:10.660 --> 01:50:10.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:50:11.600 --> 01:50:12.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you hold him one second?
[01:50:12.580 --> 01:50:12.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[01:50:13.020 --> 01:50:13.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're just saying goodbye.
[01:50:13.960 --> 01:50:14.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:50:17.520 --> 01:50:18.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: Boy, I wish we could talk to him.
[01:50:18.920 --> 01:50:20.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's just the way it is.
[01:50:21.440 --> 01:50:25.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll try and work something out where we can either get something on tape or live.
[01:50:25.720 --> 01:50:28.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just when you're double-checking the address, he wants to make sure I've got it right.
[01:50:28.400 --> 01:50:28.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:50:28.940 --> 01:50:29.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Fair enough.
[01:50:29.220 --> 01:50:30.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: You want me to get that now since it's right in front of me?
[01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:31.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, if you could.
[01:50:37.580 --> 01:50:45.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then on the same line, put 321-09-054.
[01:50:45.900 --> 01:50:53.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then on the next line, FPC, that's Frank Peter Charlie, comma, school kill.
[01:50:53.940 --> 01:51:00.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's spelled S-C-H-U-Y-L-K-I-L-L.
[01:51:00.420 --> 01:51:01.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Then Unit 1.
[01:51:02.040 --> 01:51:05.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to put this exact, apparently, or else they'll send it right back.
[01:51:06.060 --> 01:51:07.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the next line, P.O.
[01:51:07.880 --> 01:51:12.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Box 670, Minersville.
[01:51:12.540 --> 01:51:26.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's spelled M-I-N-E-R-S-V-I-L-L-E, Pennsylvania, 179-54-0670.
[01:51:28.220 --> 01:51:28.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:51:29.720 --> 01:51:34.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll give that address out again at the end of the program for those of you that might have missed it.
[01:51:34.540 --> 01:51:37.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of things can we send?
[01:51:37.940 --> 01:51:48.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you can send paperback books, not hardcover, but hardcover can come if you mail them from the publisher or a bookstore.
[01:51:49.120 --> 01:51:53.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: No more than five paperbacks or six magazines.
[01:51:53.960 --> 01:52:00.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's five paperbacks and six magazines or five paperbacks or six magazines.
[01:52:01.820 --> 01:52:07.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can send photographs, but not Polaroids, and no more than 30 photographs.
[01:52:08.540 --> 01:52:11.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can send letters, and that's it.
[01:52:11.140 --> 01:52:14.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can't send, you know, any stuff of any sort.
[01:52:14.380 --> 01:52:22.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: But what you can do, if you had in mind to send something like a care package, what you can do instead is send him a money order.
[01:52:23.420 --> 01:52:26.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Should I give details about that, too, because there's specific about that as well?
[01:52:26.620 --> 01:52:27.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, if you could.
[01:52:27.120 --> 01:52:46.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're going to send a money order, send a post office money order, and on the line where, you know, where you put who it's made out to, put Mark Benet, and then his number, which is, again, 32109-054.
[01:52:46.920 --> 01:52:49.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's really his name for the next year, isn't it?
[01:52:49.720 --> 01:52:54.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I forget what he said, what that was called, his something number, but I forget what he said.
[01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:54.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[01:52:55.140 --> 01:52:57.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but, yeah, you have to have that number with everything.
[01:52:58.200 --> 01:53:05.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, Stacy, you run the ECHO system, which is where Mark has worked for quite some time now.
[01:53:05.880 --> 01:53:07.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, past year, pretty much.
[01:53:07.440 --> 01:53:07.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[01:53:08.060 --> 01:53:09.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, when did you hear from him?
[01:53:10.220 --> 01:53:13.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: He called today for the first time, and he's called a couple of times.
[01:53:14.300 --> 01:53:14.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:53:14.840 --> 01:53:15.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: How does he sound?
[01:53:16.140 --> 01:53:18.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: To me, he sounds really good.
[01:53:18.620 --> 01:53:20.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: He sounds quite relieved.
[01:53:20.700 --> 01:53:23.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: He said the weekend was pretty hellish.
[01:53:23.920 --> 01:53:38.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I already told this to Roman or you, but there was nobody there to process him when you dropped him off on Saturday night, so they took him to the regular prison, and so they put him in what they call the hole, which is solitary.
[01:53:39.100 --> 01:53:45.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: They call it segregation for the rest of the weekend, and he said that was pretty awful, you know, and he described it.
[01:53:45.320 --> 01:53:46.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just like in the movies.
[01:53:46.420 --> 01:53:52.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: But Monday, he went to the regular prison, or rather, what they call the camp, and he said it's fine.
[01:53:52.440 --> 01:53:53.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: He has no problems.
[01:53:54.320 --> 01:54:05.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone there is really nice, including the guards, and they've been very friendly to him, and his fellow inmates are taking care of him and showing him the ropes, and they're all very nice.
[01:54:06.440 --> 01:54:16.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: He said it's mostly, like, bank people, stockbrokers, you know, who are there for fraud and embezzlement, and they're all really normal and friendly, he keeps saying over and over again.
[01:54:16.660 --> 01:54:20.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so he's really relieved, and it sounded, you know, it sounded sincere.
[01:54:20.940 --> 01:54:22.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like he was trying to be brave or anything.
[01:54:22.860 --> 01:54:23.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: He sounded really good.
[01:54:24.080 --> 01:54:25.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: He said he plays pool.
[01:54:25.640 --> 01:54:25.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[01:54:26.380 --> 01:54:30.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: We heard from his father over in the tally room who told us that...
[01:54:30.920 --> 01:54:31.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: You heard from who?
[01:54:31.760 --> 01:54:38.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: His father called in a little while ago, and supposedly he had some health problems over the weekend, I heard.
[01:54:39.020 --> 01:54:39.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[01:54:39.300 --> 01:54:39.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you hear about this?
[01:54:40.840 --> 01:54:42.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't go into a lot of detail.
[01:54:42.660 --> 01:54:52.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just, and I don't know if I want to go into too much detail over the phone, but I think it sounded like part of it was from just, you know, the shock of being there.
[01:54:52.620 --> 01:54:52.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:54:52.820 --> 01:55:00.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: And going from being a free man to solitary, you know, was a bit upsetting, to say the least.
[01:55:00.780 --> 01:55:01.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[01:55:02.360 --> 01:55:03.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: But he says he feels fine now.
[01:55:03.940 --> 01:55:06.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad he's feeling better.
[01:55:07.000 --> 01:55:12.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's good that he's playing pool and hanging out with white-collar criminals and that kind of thing, but...
[01:55:12.320 --> 01:55:12.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[01:55:13.100 --> 01:55:14.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he says the food's good.
[01:55:14.580 --> 01:55:14.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[01:55:14.900 --> 01:55:20.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, he goes, and they're giving me three meals a day, and he sounds almost pleased about that.
[01:55:21.260 --> 01:55:22.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's more than he got over to echo.
[01:55:23.320 --> 01:55:23.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[01:55:24.360 --> 01:55:26.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm sure you're going to miss him for the next year.
[01:55:26.660 --> 01:55:29.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a colossal waste, I think.
[01:55:29.260 --> 01:55:36.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: But let's hope he gets through this in one piece, and let's hope that people write him, send him all kinds of interesting things.
[01:55:37.620 --> 01:55:39.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, let's give out the address.
[01:55:39.960 --> 01:55:45.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: His full name, Mark Abene, M-A-R-K, last name A-B-E-N-E.
[01:55:46.020 --> 01:55:54.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Same line, follow that with number 3-2-1-0-9-0-5-4.
[01:55:54.920 --> 01:56:07.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Next line, F-P-C, as in Federal Prison Center, Schuylkill, S-C-H-U-Y-L-K-I-L-L, Unit 1, P.O.
[01:56:07.260 --> 01:56:14.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Box 670, Minersville, Pennsylvania, 17954-0670.
[01:56:15.420 --> 01:56:18.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: The best thing you can do is send the letter, anything.
[01:56:18.880 --> 01:56:20.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Just, you know, let him know that you're thinking of him.
[01:56:21.120 --> 01:56:22.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do that here.
[01:56:22.360 --> 01:56:26.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we'll have something to read to you, or we'll definitely have something to read to you by the time we're on the air next.
[01:56:27.780 --> 01:56:29.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Stacy, thank you very much for passing on the information.
[01:56:30.040 --> 01:56:31.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything else that you wanted to say?
[01:56:31.940 --> 01:56:37.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, but I would echo what you've already said, write him, because I'm sure right now he's feeling very cut off.
[01:56:37.920 --> 01:56:38.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:56:38.820 --> 01:56:40.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again, and good luck.
[01:56:41.060 --> 01:56:41.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[01:56:41.700 --> 01:56:42.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good night.
[01:56:44.900 --> 01:56:47.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: From the Echo computer system.
[01:56:48.880 --> 01:56:54.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: And Echo computer system must now get on without fiber optic for the next year or so.
[01:56:55.480 --> 01:56:56.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're out of here.
[01:56:56.900 --> 01:56:59.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please, if you have not called in, please do so now.
[01:56:59.240 --> 01:56:59.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's all I can say.
[01:57:00.100 --> 01:57:02.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:57:02.600 --> 01:57:03.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Robert Knight is up next.
[01:57:04.660 --> 01:57:09.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, people calling in, pledging $75, we'll get the full year of 2600 magazine.
[01:57:09.540 --> 01:57:12.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: But any pledge is welcome.
[01:57:12.940 --> 01:57:14.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're still at the 1300 marks.
[01:57:14.820 --> 01:57:17.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, help boost us up a little more.
[01:57:18.020 --> 01:57:20.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-279-3400.
[01:57:20.860 --> 01:57:22.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:57:22.880 --> 01:57:25.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you in February.
[01:57:25.640 --> 01:57:26.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Take care.