Off The Hook - 1994-03-09

[00:01.540 --> 00:03.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going Robert Knight.
[00:03.420 --> 00:08.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let him talk on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[00:31.860 --> 00:38.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm calling you until the day I die.
[00:39.420 --> 00:40.240]  [SPEAKER_24]: Hello, Elizabeth.
[00:47.420 --> 00:48.220]  [SPEAKER_29]: This is...
[00:48.220 --> 00:49.280]  [SPEAKER_29]: Poison God!
[00:55.550 --> 00:57.090]  [SPEAKER_30]: What you doing, Mr. Woburn?
[00:57.190 --> 00:58.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Playing solitaire, Mr. Woburn.
[00:58.770 --> 01:00.390]  [SPEAKER_30]: I'm Emily Ann, Mr. Woburn.
[01:00.490 --> 01:01.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello, Mr. Woburn.
[01:01.570 --> 01:01.970]  [SPEAKER_30]: Charles.
[01:02.230 --> 01:02.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: What, Emily Ann?
[01:02.890 --> 01:04.390]  [SPEAKER_30]: Something's wrong with Mr. Woburn.
[01:04.430 --> 01:05.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Black eight on the red nine.
[01:05.850 --> 01:06.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Seems all right to me.
[01:06.850 --> 01:08.310]  [SPEAKER_30]: Ask him what's wrong with him, Charles.
[01:08.470 --> 01:09.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is everything all right, Mr. Woburn?
[01:09.970 --> 01:11.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everything's all right, Mr. Woburn.
[01:11.210 --> 01:13.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everything's all right, Mr. Woburn, Emily Ann.
[01:13.210 --> 01:14.630]  [SPEAKER_30]: Everything's all right, Mr. Woburn?
[01:14.750 --> 01:14.970]  [SPEAKER_30]: Yeah.
[01:15.190 --> 01:15.750]  [SPEAKER_30]: Oh, good.
[01:16.090 --> 01:17.590]  [SPEAKER_30]: Everything's all right, Mr. Woburn.
[01:18.110 --> 01:18.810]  [SPEAKER_30]: Let's eat!
[01:20.430 --> 01:28.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to know that everything's all right, Mr. Woburn, be sure you're listening to WBAI every afternoon at least five minutes before four o'clock.
[01:29.190 --> 01:32.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Monday through Thursday afternoons, you'll hear Poison Darts.
[01:32.530 --> 01:35.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: For your safety and convenience, never turn your radio off.
[01:38.960 --> 01:45.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I can't be 100% certain, but I believe you're listening to WBAI, in New York, and it's time for Off the Hook.
[01:46.520 --> 01:47.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'm sure.
[01:51.130 --> 01:55.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:56.470 --> 02:00.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[02:01.630 --> 02:03.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: It couldn't get much worse.
[02:04.190 --> 02:09.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: From Diddy Bump, but I best expect the worst.
[02:09.680 --> 02:11.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that's understood.
[02:11.920 --> 02:12.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: From Diddy Bump!
[02:43.430 --> 02:44.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, good evening, everybody.
[02:44.710 --> 02:45.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:45.930 --> 02:46.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:46.910 --> 03:05.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're here to talk about high technology, telephones, computers, cyberspace, and all the abridgements of freedom that are to come, and that are coming already, that have been here, and ways we can help, things we can do, and things we can never hope to accomplish.
[03:05.450 --> 03:07.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's not all that bad.
[03:07.170 --> 03:19.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we're not going to be all pessimistic like some of us out here are, but there is a time for pessimism, there is a time for despair, and that time usually falls between 10 and 11 on Wednesday nights, unfortunately.
[03:20.190 --> 03:24.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's all kinds of neat things going on, and all kinds of depressing things going on.
[03:24.810 --> 03:27.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to try to get to all of that this hour.
[03:29.810 --> 03:35.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're talking about an upcoming conference, Computers Freedom and Privacy, that will be taking place later this month.
[03:36.210 --> 03:39.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: A neat service, a really, really neat service offered by MCI.
[03:39.630 --> 03:42.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: The only question is, we don't know why they're offering this service.
[03:42.530 --> 03:44.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll be talking a little bit about MetroCards.
[03:44.990 --> 03:46.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, MetroCards.
[03:46.390 --> 03:50.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's going to reach out and affect your life if you ever come into New York City.
[03:51.430 --> 03:54.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, also, fiber optic news.
[03:54.590 --> 04:01.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Phiber Optik, of course, the voice many of you are familiar with, who is locked away in prison up until, at the very earliest November.
[04:02.070 --> 04:04.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I visited him on Sunday.
[04:04.130 --> 04:06.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: I went over to Minersville, Pennsylvania.
[04:06.790 --> 04:07.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's quite a drive.
[04:07.930 --> 04:08.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not that bad.
[04:08.750 --> 04:12.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Basically, you take two interstates, Route 80 and then Route 81, and you're there.
[04:12.990 --> 04:16.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, it's fairly easy to get to from New York City.
[04:16.510 --> 04:19.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: The problem is getting approval to get in in the first place.
[04:20.030 --> 04:24.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: It wasn't very hard for him to get in, but it's very hard for people to get in and visit him, unfortunately.
[04:25.070 --> 04:28.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, I did manage to get approval, and I managed to go down there.
[04:29.770 --> 04:36.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, I'll tell you, it's an exercise in patience whenever you deal with prison life.
[04:37.130 --> 04:40.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, that includes if you're on the inside or on the outside.
[04:40.490 --> 04:49.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's amazing the kinds of things, the little tiny things, which I'm convinced get you more crazy than the big things.
[04:49.970 --> 04:54.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, the little tiny administrative nonsense things that they do.
[04:54.630 --> 04:57.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: For instance, I went with one other person.
[04:57.370 --> 04:59.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: We made sure we got there nice and early.
[04:59.750 --> 05:02.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: We left New York at 4 in the morning.
[05:02.610 --> 05:06.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: 4 in the morning so that we could get there by, say, around 8, 8.30.
[05:06.310 --> 05:11.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, that way, he'd be able to visit us when visiting hours began at around 9 o'clock.
[05:11.910 --> 05:13.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, what do they do?
[05:13.470 --> 05:17.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: We get there right on the dot at 9 o'clock, and we tell them who we are.
[05:17.870 --> 05:20.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, there's the usual shenanigans at the front desk.
[05:20.650 --> 05:23.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, your signature doesn't quite look like your signature on your license.
[05:24.110 --> 05:27.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Could you sign your signature the way it is on the license?
[05:27.550 --> 05:29.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: That way, we can be sure that it's you.
[05:29.150 --> 05:31.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't matter that we see your face and everything like that.
[05:31.210 --> 05:37.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: That we have to make sure that you can sign in that particular way, because we don't want you to be losing those particular skills.
[05:37.790 --> 05:38.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, what does it prove?
[05:38.850 --> 05:44.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: What does it prove to have a license in front of you with a signature in a certain way, and they want you to match that?
[05:44.670 --> 05:46.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's not that difficult to do.
[05:46.750 --> 05:48.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's obvious that it's the same person.
[05:48.230 --> 05:53.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they just feel they have to kind of embed that upon you, that they're in control here.
[05:53.190 --> 05:54.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: They can make you leave.
[05:54.350 --> 05:55.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: They can make you stay.
[05:55.490 --> 05:57.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: They can do whatever they want to do.
[05:57.330 --> 05:58.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, this is to a visitor.
[05:58.470 --> 05:59.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Imagine what they do to the inmates.
[06:00.230 --> 06:08.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, anyway, we went through all that and signed our names and became recognized as the people we said we were.
[06:08.230 --> 06:09.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had to fill out little forms, too.
[06:09.930 --> 06:14.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this, my friends, is the craziest part of the whole day.
[06:14.310 --> 06:16.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the craziest part of this whole ordeal.
[06:17.350 --> 06:24.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: We were supposed to fill out our names, our addresses, no problem there, who it is that we're visiting, the inmate's name and the inmate's number.
[06:24.330 --> 06:28.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: And before I knew what I was doing, I had filled out the inmate's number without even thinking.
[06:28.870 --> 06:31.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I memorized fiber optic's inmate number.
[06:32.130 --> 06:33.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like it's his name now.
[06:33.770 --> 06:35.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: 3-2-1-0-9-0-5-4.
[06:35.410 --> 06:35.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's him.
[06:36.530 --> 06:39.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, what's happened to me?
[06:39.570 --> 06:43.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've memorized a number and associated that with a person.
[06:43.750 --> 06:45.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've succumbed to the system.
[06:47.170 --> 06:49.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I was in shock after I did this.
[06:49.610 --> 06:53.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just suddenly looked at the piece of paper and I said, my God, did I just do this?
[06:53.830 --> 06:55.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then I hope maybe I got it wrong.
[06:55.910 --> 06:58.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, maybe I got a digit wrong or something like that.
[06:58.610 --> 06:59.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: But no, it was perfect.
[06:59.370 --> 07:00.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I even put the dash in the right place.
[07:02.850 --> 07:04.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I didn't feel too good about that.
[07:05.070 --> 07:11.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we took our places inside in this little room with a lot of chairs.
[07:11.670 --> 07:12.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, comfortable chairs.
[07:13.070 --> 07:16.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: They've got, you know, downy type things on the chair.
[07:16.490 --> 07:17.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not hard chairs.
[07:17.570 --> 07:20.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And gradually the room filled up with people.
[07:20.410 --> 07:23.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Inmates would come in and their families would be there.
[07:23.030 --> 07:25.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: All the inmates were dressed pretty much the same way.
[07:26.810 --> 07:31.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: In, I believe, the beige color, which is what's in fashion out there now.
[07:32.910 --> 07:34.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it was kind of sad, you know.
[07:34.590 --> 07:38.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was very sad, actually, seeing people being reunited with their family.
[07:38.750 --> 07:39.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: And just sort of...
[07:40.070 --> 07:45.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: They all had the same kind of look to them.
[07:45.990 --> 07:47.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where they were kind of helpless.
[07:47.690 --> 07:48.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, they were very helpless.
[07:48.590 --> 07:49.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: They just were there.
[07:50.030 --> 07:52.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: They knew this time wasn't going to last very long.
[07:53.310 --> 07:56.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: And maybe it wouldn't come again for a long time.
[07:57.950 --> 08:01.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: And a whole room full of people like that can really be pretty depressing.
[08:02.150 --> 08:05.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Problem was, Phiber Optik was not one of those people.
[08:05.850 --> 08:07.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: They called him.
[08:07.110 --> 08:08.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, Fiber's real name is Mark Abene.
[08:09.090 --> 08:12.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they called Mark Albine.
[08:12.630 --> 08:16.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, of course, over a PA system, it's hard enough to hear your name in the first place.
[08:16.730 --> 08:18.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: But to hear something that's completely different...
[08:18.950 --> 08:21.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, this is a guy that's going to be with them for a year.
[08:21.250 --> 08:23.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they don't even take the time to pronounce his name properly.
[08:23.930 --> 08:29.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, he didn't hear the first announcement at all.
[08:29.150 --> 08:30.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: And when he heard the second one, he came right down.
[08:31.130 --> 08:35.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, he got down at about 9.25 or so.
[08:35.610 --> 08:39.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they said, well, it's getting pretty close to 9.30.
[08:39.430 --> 08:42.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're going to have to go back for the 9.30 count.
[08:42.950 --> 08:52.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: See, they have this rule where if you get to the place at 9.30 or beyond, you have to go back and participate in a count and then come back later.
[08:53.010 --> 08:54.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: And later means around 11 o'clock.
[08:54.910 --> 08:59.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, because he had come that close to 9.30, he couldn't come back out until 11 o'clock.
[08:59.450 --> 09:00.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, of course, that was pretty frustrating.
[09:02.030 --> 09:10.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we wound up waiting in that room, watching everybody else talking to their prisoner friends or whatever for another hour and a half.
[09:10.670 --> 09:14.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was a payphone there, which I had to ask permission to use.
[09:15.070 --> 09:16.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have to throw a switch.
[09:16.770 --> 09:19.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of things that say this area is off limits to inmates.
[09:20.090 --> 09:21.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have vending machines.
[09:21.370 --> 09:24.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: The inmates cannot step past the line where the vending machines are.
[09:25.030 --> 09:27.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't really understand the logic behind that.
[09:27.050 --> 09:29.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I also noticed something else.
[09:29.890 --> 09:32.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: The bathrooms are behind that particular line, too.
[09:33.210 --> 09:36.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't think the inmates can leave and they can't go to the bathroom.
[09:36.490 --> 09:39.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I mean, if they go back, they might lose the visit for the day.
[09:39.870 --> 09:41.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's quite possible that will happen.
[09:42.070 --> 09:44.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't even think about that, actually, until now.
[09:44.910 --> 09:50.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, finally, finally, at around 11 o'clock or so, they allowed him to come through.
[09:50.850 --> 09:52.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: He had been waiting in the hallway for quite some time.
[09:53.630 --> 09:54.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we saw him.
[09:54.830 --> 10:04.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we spent about four hours just talking, hanging out and talking and trying to catch up on things, talking about the world at large.
[10:05.410 --> 10:11.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, a lot of things, a lot of things don't get through that are of interest to people.
[10:11.270 --> 10:13.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: For instance, virtually nobody there knew that John Candy had died.
[10:14.970 --> 10:19.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mark had heard something about the TCI, the Atlantic merger, falling through, but he didn't have all the details.
[10:20.490 --> 10:23.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, there's a lot of things to fill him in on.
[10:23.710 --> 10:26.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he's been getting a lot of mail.
[10:26.410 --> 10:27.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's very happy about the mail he gets.
[10:28.050 --> 10:28.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the highlight of the day.
[10:30.510 --> 10:32.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Virtually no day has gone by where he has not gotten mail.
[10:32.950 --> 10:34.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that includes publications.
[10:35.070 --> 10:35.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: That includes books.
[10:35.770 --> 10:37.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: That includes just news updates of various sorts.
[10:39.950 --> 10:46.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, one thing which really stuck with me was when he admired a shirt I was wearing.
[10:46.330 --> 10:47.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: He said, boy, that's a really nice shirt.
[10:47.910 --> 10:50.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a shirt I've worn a hundred times.
[10:50.590 --> 10:54.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a shirt that, you know, there's nothing special about it.
[10:54.470 --> 11:00.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I've never known this guy to comment on somebody's clothing and admire it.
[11:00.450 --> 11:04.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: But then I realized he's wearing the same shirt every day for a year.
[11:05.130 --> 11:12.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, of course, anything other than that sickening beige look is going to look really, really appealing.
[11:14.790 --> 11:18.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that was pretty sad in and of itself.
[11:19.770 --> 11:22.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: So much else really to tell about that.
[11:22.850 --> 11:25.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was just really good to see him again.
[11:25.650 --> 11:26.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: He looks different.
[11:27.790 --> 11:29.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's sort of growing a beard.
[11:29.550 --> 11:30.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: His hair is a little longer.
[11:32.210 --> 11:34.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: But he's angry, you know, and that's a good thing.
[11:34.450 --> 11:34.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's angry.
[11:34.930 --> 11:40.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's upset with all the crap he has to deal with day after day.
[11:40.110 --> 11:47.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: For instance, we told you last week he forgot to fold his blanket and got 20 extra hours of work because of that.
[11:49.530 --> 11:53.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: He has a note from his doctor that says he's not supposed to be lifting things.
[11:53.110 --> 11:57.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the prison authorities don't consider shoveling snow to be lifting things.
[11:57.330 --> 12:10.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so for eight hours a day, five days a week, the person who would be very helpful to a lot of people getting them on the Internet and helping them out with computer problems and answering phone questions, that person is shoveling snow.
[12:11.410 --> 12:16.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: And even if all the snow is shoveled, they find another place for him to shovel and just waste a whole lot of time.
[12:16.370 --> 12:19.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's the old cool hand, Luke, get that dirt out of my hole syndrome.
[12:21.110 --> 12:24.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's how he's wasting his time.
[12:24.710 --> 12:33.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot of guards there that are just, you know, they happen to always come down on people, say bad things, never really say anything good.
[12:34.250 --> 12:36.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: They just don't really like prisoners all that much, I guess.
[12:36.810 --> 12:42.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And whatever their reasons for that, Fiber is a victim of that.
[12:42.910 --> 12:49.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so he had the opportunity to, you know, to tell us all about this, to complain a bit.
[12:49.290 --> 12:51.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: We had the opportunity to fill him in on various things.
[12:52.110 --> 12:55.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: And on the end, two of us left and one of us stayed.
[12:56.650 --> 12:57.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's the way it is.
[12:58.490 --> 13:00.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to try to get back there as often as possible.
[13:00.730 --> 13:02.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: But again, another administrative thing.
[13:03.230 --> 13:05.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: You only allow five visits a month.
[13:05.430 --> 13:09.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you use those up, you know, nobody else can visit you.
[13:09.750 --> 13:11.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you have to be careful as to how you do that.
[13:12.110 --> 13:13.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: People can visit in groups.
[13:13.590 --> 13:15.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that only counts as one visit.
[13:15.510 --> 13:18.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: But if one person comes, and that's one visit too.
[13:18.950 --> 13:19.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: And here's another thing.
[13:19.890 --> 13:30.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: If one person comes and then goes away, you know, to get some real food or something out in the real world, as real world as Minersville, Pennsylvania can be, and then comes back again, well, that counts as two visits.
[13:30.550 --> 13:32.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you could use it up pretty quickly.
[13:35.430 --> 13:39.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: As to how many people can be on the list, how many phone numbers he can call, and various things like that.
[13:39.830 --> 13:44.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: But we're trying to keep him as much a part of this world as we possibly can.
[13:45.710 --> 13:49.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I know that means a lot to him.
[13:51.970 --> 13:57.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we're also going to try and have him take part in the CFP conference later on in the month.
[13:57.150 --> 13:58.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll have more details on that in just a couple of minutes.
[13:59.670 --> 14:02.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was an article in the Daily News.
[14:03.230 --> 14:09.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Daily News, of all papers, had a very good article in the March 2nd edition on fiber optic.
[14:09.810 --> 14:18.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to read at least a few pieces from that here, because I realize a lot of WBAI listeners don't really get the Daily News, and it took me almost a week to find the copy.
[14:20.710 --> 14:22.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I was really impressed with this.
[14:22.670 --> 14:26.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was really impressed with the way they managed to just capture it.
[14:26.510 --> 14:31.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's called, um, Explorers, Rise and Fall of a Cyberspace Invader.
[14:32.730 --> 14:33.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: This part is kind of silly.
[14:33.910 --> 14:34.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mark Abene, a.k.a.
[14:34.990 --> 14:39.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Phiber Optik, never met a computer system he couldn't hack until he was short-circuited by the feds.
[14:40.350 --> 14:41.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, it gets better than that.
[14:42.030 --> 14:44.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, uh, that's just your, uh, your hook there.
[14:44.730 --> 14:46.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, now you're hooked, or whatever.
[14:47.010 --> 14:48.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the, uh, the real article.
[14:48.630 --> 14:50.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: State Line, Minersville, Pennsylvania.
[14:50.750 --> 14:53.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was an artistic thing, like being the Picasso of cyberspace.
[14:53.930 --> 15:07.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was a process to computer hacking that resembled painting, so that every time Mark Abene entered another computer system, when, say, he hacked onto phone company innards, he felt the pride that comes from giving an idea in your head a tangible shape.
[15:08.190 --> 15:13.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Abene didn't hurt anyone, make money from his exploits, or damage the integrity of the systems he cruised through.
[15:13.870 --> 15:22.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: He got his rush from the challenge, from the knowledge that a working-class kid from Elmhurst, Queens had beaten the big guys and cracked another technological puzzle.
[15:22.670 --> 15:28.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: From an artistic perspective, he says, there is the gratification of accomplishing something, of having understood something.
[15:29.030 --> 15:31.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've quenched some sort of intellectual curiosity.
[15:33.050 --> 15:36.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Abene was a major player in the cybernetic world, and he liked the feeling.
[15:36.850 --> 15:39.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: He appeared on Geraldo, which actually is not true.
[15:39.790 --> 15:45.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: He appeared on, uh, for a few seconds, on Now It Can Be Told, uh, which was a Geraldo-type show.
[15:46.210 --> 15:48.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Geraldo was on it, but it was not the show called Geraldo.
[15:48.190 --> 15:51.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, he appeared on that, and in Harper's Magazine.
[15:51.390 --> 15:57.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: He lectured on computers and telecommunications at NYU and the New School, attended national conferences as an honored guest.
[15:58.190 --> 16:02.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Under his nom de hack, fiber optic, he became a public figure.
[16:03.470 --> 16:04.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was only one problem.
[16:05.130 --> 16:10.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: As far as the federal government was concerned, Abene was a criminal, and an arrogant one at that.
[16:11.830 --> 16:20.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was performing illegal acts, entering systems without permission, using access codes he wasn't supposed to have, then going public with his knowledge.
[16:21.250 --> 16:23.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Law enforcement wanted fiber behind bars.
[16:24.790 --> 16:35.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Federal Prisoner 32109-054 shares a small pod with another white-collar felon in a minimum security facility deep in the heart of Pennsylvania coal country.
[16:35.070 --> 16:41.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Painted in sterile institutional colors of blue and beige, the small room is about 8 feet by 5 feet.
[16:41.950 --> 16:45.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: It contains a bunk bed, desk, chair, and small cabinet.
[16:46.090 --> 16:51.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: The bathroom and TV room are down the hall, the cafeteria, a short walk away in another building.
[16:53.530 --> 17:00.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: 32109-054 isn't locked in at night, and because his fellow cons are white-collar types, he does not fear for his personal safety.
[17:01.130 --> 17:15.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: But 22-year-old Mark Abene is doing real-time, and has been since early January, when he was sentenced to a year and a day after his conviction on charges of conspiracy to violate several computer-related federal laws by breaking into telecommunications computers.
[17:16.370 --> 17:21.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: The feds who wanted to send a message to the hacker universe have made Abene an example.
[17:21.630 --> 17:34.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: He stands as a symbol in this field because of his own efforts, said the judge, who sentenced Abene, letting cyberpunks everywhere know that law enforcement is serious about going after those who violate the integrity of other computer systems.
[17:35.170 --> 17:39.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: But Abene's incarceration has created a furor in the hermetic world of computer freaks.
[17:40.130 --> 17:44.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: The sentence is seen as a case of the laws lagging behind the subtleties of a new technology.
[17:44.790 --> 17:52.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: According to this line of thought, Fiber's biggest crime was his success in demystifying a complex system and explaining it to the outside world.
[17:53.910 --> 18:07.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: While Abene's defenders acknowledge that he entered places he shouldn't have, they also believe there should be some means of distinguishing between non-malignant explorers like Fiber, people surfing through cyberspace for the sheer thrill of it, and the real criminals,
[18:07.990 --> 18:14.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: hackers who want to destroy computer files, steal information, or use illicit knowledge for financial gain.
[18:15.730 --> 18:23.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every time you have a technology like this, you always have a small collection of people who get interested in these systems, says Mike Godwin of the Washington, D.C.
[18:23.710 --> 18:25.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: based Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[18:25.790 --> 18:33.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Mark Abene case is paradigmatic because he, more than anyone else, typified the non-malicious computer hacker.
[18:34.810 --> 18:39.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: The phone companies would rather there not be people who have all the knowledge that fiber optic has in his head.
[18:40.170 --> 18:41.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: The mere fact he has it is threatening.
[18:42.610 --> 18:47.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: But Mark Rodenberg of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility does not regard Abene as a hero.
[18:48.410 --> 18:52.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: We've written laws that prohibit people from going into other people's computer systems, he says.
[18:52.490 --> 18:58.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think that's a wrong line to draw, but I also think when the law works right, it treats people fairly.
[18:58.650 --> 19:04.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: People who don't cause harm or don't mean to take things are not causing the same offense as those who would steal from others.
[19:05.590 --> 19:09.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: The issue hinges on harm, and Abene declares himself innocent on that score.
[19:09.970 --> 19:17.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wasn't ripping anyone off, I wasn't taking anyone's money, and I wasn't depriving anyone of anything, he says, which is essentially correct.
[19:17.630 --> 19:22.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yet Abene did break several laws that by themselves were not necessarily enough to send him to the slammer.
[19:23.350 --> 19:27.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it's easy to see why he wound up there when other offenders might have been sentenced to probation.
[19:28.190 --> 19:34.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's an arrogance about him, a smug sense of intellectual superiority that does not do you a lot of good when you are plea bargaining with the feds.
[19:36.090 --> 19:41.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Fiber is physically slight, sports a scraggly beard, and has very pale, yellowish skin.
[19:42.210 --> 19:51.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: He speaks slowly in a nasal voice, which is not right, I mean, anyone who's heard Fiber here on this radio show knows he does not have a nasal voice.
[19:52.530 --> 19:59.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Discoursing in an almost pedantic manner, but he's a bundle of nerves, holding his hands in front of his face as he speaks, picking at his fingernails.
[19:59.830 --> 20:06.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every once in a while when something strikes him as funny, he erupts into a sweet, goofy, almost pubescent grin.
[20:07.030 --> 20:12.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: The fact is, he's still a kid and thinks in all the willful, obstinate ways kids tend to think.
[20:12.550 --> 20:16.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: And despite his bigger-than-life reputation, he's in prison for doing boyish things.
[20:18.790 --> 20:21.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ebene comes from a solid, working-class family.
[20:21.190 --> 20:23.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: His dad is a custodian at a Manhattan school.
[20:23.130 --> 20:26.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: His mom works for a department store in the customer service area.
[20:26.990 --> 20:33.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: When he was about three years old, the family visited Mark's older sister, who was attending SUNY Albany.
[20:33.750 --> 20:38.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was a science fair going on, and Mark was struck by the majesty of the huge computers that filled the room.
[20:38.730 --> 20:40.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is something we talked about, actually.
[20:41.070 --> 20:44.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: The fact that he's able to remember something when he was three years old.
[20:44.590 --> 20:48.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, he claims to be able to remember things even earlier than that, and I just found that incredible.
[20:49.810 --> 20:54.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Continuing here, in elementary school, he got into video games, which led him quite naturally to computers.
[20:54.830 --> 21:00.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Soon, he was going to the local mall with friends to hit computer stores where they would play with the machines for hours.
[21:01.430 --> 21:03.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then he got a Radio Shack computer for Christmas.
[21:04.130 --> 21:06.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Using a modem, he began calling into a computer bulletin board.
[21:06.970 --> 21:10.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: He met other computer types in cyberspace and got the numbers of other bulletin boards.
[21:11.570 --> 21:14.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Abené soon found his knowledge was outgrowing the capacities of his machine.
[21:15.090 --> 21:18.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: But eventually, he discovered he could access bigger systems.
[21:18.490 --> 21:22.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then he found there were people on the boards with information about getting into other computers.
[21:23.270 --> 21:26.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: At 13, he accessed the first system he shouldn't have entered.
[21:26.530 --> 21:32.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: He doesn't remember which one, but says, I wasn't so much interested with the fact of whose it was, as what it was.
[21:33.110 --> 21:36.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: A big, cool machine I could log into and play with for as long as I wanted.
[21:37.790 --> 21:40.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: By 17, he was a full-fledged legend in cyberspace.
[21:40.810 --> 21:45.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: The name Phiber Optiks stood for adventure, as if Abené had become a high-tech cowboy.
[21:45.750 --> 21:53.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was facing down the big corporations in the name of free access and knowledge, then bragging about his successes in as many public forums as possible.
[21:53.850 --> 22:01.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: He and a group of New York friends even formed a loose hacker group called the Masters of Deception, or MOD, after a group of comic book villains.
[22:02.710 --> 22:05.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: The moniker was predictably rebellious.
[22:06.890 --> 22:09.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: They were arrogant kids filled with themselves and their abilities.
[22:09.970 --> 22:16.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: They would post confidential credit information on computer bulletin boards, access phone numbers, and credit histories of celebrities.
[22:17.090 --> 22:21.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Abené admits his pranks were rash, the work of a kid with a pretty big chip on my shoulder.
[22:22.190 --> 22:28.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: He says he may have done them to get back at people who thought I was just some rambunctious teenager who was no different from some punk skateboarder.
[22:29.490 --> 22:35.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was, in fact, something of a genius, but a very undisciplined one with a skewed sense of moral priorities.
[22:36.650 --> 22:44.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: I liken fiber to Billy the Kid, says Douglas Rushkoff, author of the forthcoming Siberia, Life in the Trenches of Hyperspace.
[22:45.530 --> 22:52.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: When a young person is the most skilled at something, as these young hackers often are, they are going to have to prove it any way they can.
[22:52.710 --> 22:54.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who's the fastest gun in the West?
[22:54.470 --> 22:56.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who's the fastest codebreaker in the East?
[22:58.230 --> 23:00.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a numbing sameness to Abené's prison days.
[23:00.930 --> 23:06.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Up at 7.30 a.m., eat breakfast, walk to a barn-like building where he reports for work as a landscaper.
[23:07.350 --> 23:08.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: In the winter, he shovels snow.
[23:09.070 --> 23:10.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: In the summer, he'll probably pull weeds.
[23:11.590 --> 23:14.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: At 10.30, he reports back to the barn for a head count.
[23:15.190 --> 23:18.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then he has lunch and returns to work at noon when there's another count.
[23:18.670 --> 23:22.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: At 3 or 3.30, he knocks off work and heads back to his dorm for mail call.
[23:22.770 --> 23:24.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: At 4.15, there's yet another count.
[23:25.370 --> 23:26.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then it's off to eat dinner.
[23:28.050 --> 23:29.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: He does not have access to a computer.
[23:30.890 --> 23:33.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: The experience is a complete waste of time, says Ebene, of prison.
[23:34.230 --> 23:36.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: And every day I'm here, I pretty much curse being here.
[23:38.390 --> 23:47.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ebene has three years of supervised probation and 600 hours of community service to complete after he gets out of prison, which, with time off for good behavior, should be sometime in November.
[23:49.330 --> 23:51.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: One thing he doesn't have to worry about is future employment.
[23:51.890 --> 23:57.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: He has been offered several jobs as either a programmer or a telecommunications engineer for a small phone company.
[23:58.310 --> 24:02.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: The irony of Mark Ebene's life is that he shed the fiber image a long time before the feds did him in.
[24:03.150 --> 24:08.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was moving from the shadowy world of hackerdom into the warm glow of responsible computing.
[24:09.050 --> 24:22.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: In a way, he was following the path of big-time techies, like Steve Jobs of Apple and Bill Gates of Microsoft, who all began as cyberspace explorers, then applied their wisdom to real-world problems.
[24:22.990 --> 24:30.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, Ebene may also choose to become a freedom fighter on the high-tech frontier, an advocate for open access to the information highway.
[24:31.150 --> 24:37.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's well aware that government and the big corporations see hackers as the loose cannons of the world information order.
[24:37.970 --> 24:42.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: That, as he puts it, they're rounding up the Indians so the homesteaders can settle in.
[24:43.730 --> 24:53.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Whatever Ebene decides to do with his future ten years from now, he'll probably look back on this period of his life as some sort of surreal episode in an otherwise normal career path.
[24:53.890 --> 25:01.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Fiberoptic will be just a memory, a name that will come up at computer conferences and pop up occasionally in histories of the hacker era.
[25:02.530 --> 25:04.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it will be just that, ancient history.
[25:05.730 --> 25:13.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: First, of course, Mark Ebene has to make it through nine more months of snow shoveling, weed pulling, and deadening boredom.
[25:13.630 --> 25:15.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not easy being a martyr to the cause.
[25:17.150 --> 25:33.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: That article from the Daily News of Wednesday, March 2nd, written by Louis Beal, and I think a really good article actually, except for all that cyberspace and nonsense like that.
[25:33.710 --> 25:34.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hate that word.
[25:35.890 --> 25:41.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I think it really did capture what it was all about, and a couple of good pictures of Mark in here too.
[25:43.750 --> 25:44.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[25:46.450 --> 25:47.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Looking to the future.
[25:48.290 --> 25:52.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mentioned the Computers Freedom and Privacy conference that's coming up in Chicago.
[25:54.410 --> 25:57.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that will be happening March 23rd through 26th.
[25:57.790 --> 25:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here it is again.
[25:58.770 --> 26:02.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's called Cyberspace Super Highways, Access, Ethics, and Control.
[26:04.330 --> 26:06.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we're going to be involved in a panel.
[26:06.430 --> 26:08.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: For the first time, the hackers actually have a real panel.
[26:09.590 --> 26:10.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's about time.
[26:11.310 --> 26:14.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, there's a panel on Friday, the Friday session.
[26:14.810 --> 26:17.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's called Hackers and Crackers, Using and Abusing the Networks.
[26:19.270 --> 26:24.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we'll define some terms, I suppose, and answer these questions.
[26:24.310 --> 26:25.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: What can and should be exchanged?
[26:25.730 --> 26:27.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who will monitor appropriate use?
[26:27.690 --> 26:30.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's the current difference, if any, between Hacker and Cracker?
[26:31.450 --> 26:35.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: What should be expected and accepted regarding the role of law enforcement agencies?
[26:35.510 --> 26:38.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, concerning Hacker and Cracker, I honestly have never met a Cracker.
[26:38.950 --> 26:40.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what a Cracker is.
[26:42.410 --> 26:44.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's hackers, and then there's people that aren't hackers.
[26:44.490 --> 26:46.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's pretty much where it lies in my mind.
[26:46.410 --> 26:50.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I'll go into more detail on that some other time, and also at this conference.
[26:50.470 --> 26:55.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what we're going to try to do is have Phiber Optiks participate one way or another in this conference.
[26:56.250 --> 26:57.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're still trying to work that out.
[26:58.770 --> 27:00.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we'll let you know how that goes.
[27:00.250 --> 27:03.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: But there's all kinds of other things going on.
[27:03.590 --> 27:05.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Data encryption, who holds the keys?
[27:06.570 --> 27:07.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is it time for a U.S.
[27:07.950 --> 27:09.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: data protection agency?
[27:09.290 --> 27:17.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And of course, there'll be talk about the Clipper chip and all those other neat things that are that are greeting us in the 1990s.
[27:19.530 --> 27:24.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess I can give a phone number or something for information.
[27:24.590 --> 27:26.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's kind of a kind of a confusing pamphlet here.
[27:26.770 --> 27:29.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bear with me for a second while we figure this out.
[27:31.810 --> 27:32.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[27:32.450 --> 27:33.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Computers Freedom and Privacy.
[27:39.210 --> 27:40.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, there's no address on here.
[27:40.990 --> 27:43.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll continue scanning this.
[27:47.110 --> 27:47.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, yeah.
[27:48.850 --> 27:53.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a number for hotel reservations, but that's not really what we're interested in here.
[27:55.750 --> 27:56.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[27:56.090 --> 27:58.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll continue looking at this, and hopefully I'll figure it out by the time the show is over.
[27:58.870 --> 28:01.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you're interested in going to CFP 94, which is in Chicago.
[28:04.410 --> 28:06.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: It'll be at the Palmer House Hilton.
[28:07.330 --> 28:09.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, hopefully that'll be helpful as well.
[28:10.690 --> 28:11.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[28:11.650 --> 28:13.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, I guess I can give the hotel number.
[28:13.970 --> 28:14.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't hurt.
[28:14.650 --> 28:17.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's area code 312-726-7500.
[28:21.030 --> 28:31.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you can also call 1-800-521-4041 to register for discount airfare to get to this thing.
[28:33.210 --> 28:33.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[28:33.670 --> 28:43.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's a form to fill out, but I would not really advise mailing out this form or sending away for this form at this point, because there's no way you'd get it in time and get it back in time.
[28:43.390 --> 28:46.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, that's my only concern as far as that goes.
[28:47.610 --> 28:48.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[28:48.190 --> 28:49.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, if I can find...
[28:49.370 --> 28:53.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I can translate this a little better, I'll give out more information later on in the program.
[28:55.110 --> 28:55.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[28:55.670 --> 29:01.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Coming up, we're going to take a little look at the MetroCard and talk about this amazing service that MCI is offering.
[29:01.990 --> 29:05.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we'll be taking some listener phone calls here on WBAI.
[29:06.150 --> 29:07.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, stay tuned.
[30:36.100 --> 30:36.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[30:36.540 --> 30:40.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've done a full scan of this form here.
[30:40.200 --> 30:45.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's no address really to write to to get information on this in time.
[30:45.760 --> 30:49.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: No real email address or a phone number.
[30:49.480 --> 30:58.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I guess the best thing I can suggest if people are interested in going to CFP 94, just show up and deal with registration there.
[30:58.440 --> 31:00.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's one of those conferences that's real expensive.
[31:00.660 --> 31:02.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: But that's just the way it is.
[31:02.720 --> 31:03.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's how conferences work.
[31:04.560 --> 31:05.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: It should be interesting.
[31:05.720 --> 31:07.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Either way, you can make it or not.
[31:07.280 --> 31:09.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: But we'll bring back information here on this program.
[31:11.120 --> 31:14.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Continuing now with information on MetroCard.
[31:15.260 --> 31:19.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Slowly, surely, they're popping up left and right.
[31:20.020 --> 31:21.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Perhaps you've played with it yourself.
[31:21.640 --> 31:24.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Perhaps you've seen a card in use.
[31:24.280 --> 31:26.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Perhaps you've seen someone try to use it and fail.
[31:26.820 --> 31:28.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, maybe you saw me.
[31:31.240 --> 31:33.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've had my share of misfortunes already with this system.
[31:41.420 --> 31:45.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's fun to play with and it's definitely an interesting idea.
[31:46.080 --> 31:47.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Something that really hasn't been done before.
[31:48.380 --> 31:53.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I showed a card to Fiber when I went out to prison to visit him.
[31:53.240 --> 31:54.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, he couldn't touch it.
[31:54.480 --> 31:56.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's not allowed to really touch anything that you bring.
[31:56.840 --> 32:02.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, to give you an idea of the lunacy here, we weren't allowed to bring in a newspaper because we were waiting for an hour and a half for him.
[32:02.240 --> 32:05.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: We thought maybe it would be a good idea to read a newspaper, but no.
[32:05.480 --> 32:06.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, you can't do that.
[32:07.380 --> 32:13.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I held up this MetroCard at a distance and just sort of pointed to it and smiled at it and turned it around and everything.
[32:13.920 --> 32:15.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he marveled at it.
[32:15.860 --> 32:17.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: He'd never seen one before.
[32:17.800 --> 32:18.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: He couldn't touch it.
[32:18.820 --> 32:23.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: He couldn't feel this rigid plastic that it's made out of.
[32:24.120 --> 32:27.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I explained the system to him as best I could.
[32:27.300 --> 32:29.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he actually thinks it's a good system.
[32:29.160 --> 32:30.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: He thinks it's an intelligent system.
[32:30.500 --> 32:31.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: And here's why.
[32:31.600 --> 32:35.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: The whole thing is run on a huge, huge UNIX system.
[32:35.660 --> 32:40.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And in fact, there are workstations in many of the stations as you walk through.
[32:41.020 --> 32:42.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's why the stations are not yet online.
[32:43.160 --> 32:43.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's interesting.
[32:43.760 --> 32:46.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: You'll see the card readers there.
[32:46.160 --> 32:47.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're turned on.
[32:47.220 --> 32:48.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: They say hello and all that kind of thing.
[32:49.080 --> 32:50.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they're just not connected.
[32:50.200 --> 32:51.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you might wonder, why?
[32:51.360 --> 32:52.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why can't they just take tickets?
[32:53.020 --> 32:58.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's got something to do with connecting it all to the big network of turnstiles throughout the city.
[32:58.920 --> 33:01.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is not like the DC system.
[33:01.320 --> 33:03.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is not like the Bay Area Rapid Transit.
[33:03.880 --> 33:07.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because we're not talking about cards that have value within them.
[33:07.280 --> 33:10.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: These are cards that pretty much reference an account.
[33:10.860 --> 33:15.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every time you buy a card, you have an account made on a UNIX system.
[33:15.660 --> 33:20.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: And every time you use your card, that account is debited in some way.
[33:20.820 --> 33:25.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: So even if you do manage to make a second card, and believe me, there's people out there trying.
[33:26.600 --> 33:34.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, whoever depletes the account first will simply deplete the account and the other card won't be of any use.
[33:35.160 --> 33:42.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unless there's a way to figure out how accounts are made in the first place and how to make the system think that an account is valid when it's not.
[33:42.860 --> 33:46.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Basically, I think the account is...
[33:46.380 --> 33:50.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: a lot of this I don't know yet, but it's based on this number that's printed on the back of your ticket.
[33:50.860 --> 33:55.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: In my case, it's 0017290301.
[33:55.600 --> 33:57.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the same one I had several weeks ago.
[33:57.100 --> 33:59.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's because there's so few places you can use these things.
[34:00.940 --> 34:06.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you go around from place to place and you push this thing into the machine.
[34:06.160 --> 34:08.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to push it at just the right speed or it won't take it.
[34:08.820 --> 34:16.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: It'll say you scan too fast or you swipe too fast, you swipe too slow, you have to swipe just right and in the right direction or who knows what will happen to you.
[34:17.220 --> 34:19.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's an interesting system, something worth playing with.
[34:21.320 --> 34:26.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if anyone knows of anything interesting with this system that we have not yet covered, please let us know.
[34:26.940 --> 34:29.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right now, we're trying to figure out the data format on the strip.
[34:29.820 --> 34:32.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if we can do that, we'll share that information as well.
[34:33.320 --> 34:37.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And right now, right now, the system seems to be fairly secure.
[34:38.880 --> 34:39.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: It seems to be.
[34:40.720 --> 34:43.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: But then again, it hasn't really started working yet, has it?
[34:45.100 --> 34:49.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, here's something that I'm sure everybody is going to like, especially at this time of year.
[34:50.500 --> 34:53.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have the friendly people at MCI to thank for this.
[34:54.340 --> 34:57.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And right after we do this, we're going to take some phone calls from our friendly listeners.
[34:58.840 --> 35:01.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, let's get ourselves a dial tone here.
[35:02.880 --> 35:04.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, there's our dial tone.
[35:05.940 --> 35:07.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to dial a number.
[35:08.040 --> 35:09.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: An 800 number.
[35:16.330 --> 35:16.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here we go.
[35:21.420 --> 35:25.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Welcome to the MCI Wow It's Hot Hotline.
[35:25.340 --> 35:29.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: The newest fun way to stay warm during the cold days of winter.
[35:29.760 --> 35:38.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: The MCI Wow It's Hot Hotline helps you hear any of nine fun warming sounds to help you warm up absolutely free.
[35:38.920 --> 35:47.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: All you need is a Touch-Tone phone and you can hear as many sounds as you'd like as many times as you want just by pressing the number of the sound you want to hear.
[35:47.900 --> 35:51.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling the MCI Wow It's Hot Hotline.
[35:51.320 --> 36:17.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear people playing golf press 1 To hear a baseball game press 2 To hear seagulls press 3 To hear someone water skiing press 4 To hear tropical birds press 5 An evening tropical stream is on 6 To hear a carousel press 7 Children at the beach press 8 And to hear a baseball stadium vendor,
[36:17.610 --> 36:18.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: press 9.
[36:20.340 --> 36:21.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, okay.
[36:22.050 --> 36:23.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're having a little bit of trouble with that line.
[36:23.820 --> 36:26.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to try this on a different line because we're only getting one speaker.
[36:27.060 --> 36:28.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're getting a hum on that line.
[36:28.440 --> 36:30.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a great WBAI phone system strikes again.
[36:32.200 --> 36:35.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, we're still getting just one speaker there.
[36:35.780 --> 36:36.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's try this one.
[36:38.220 --> 36:40.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, our phone system has pretty much met its match.
[36:41.720 --> 36:49.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess we'll just have to live with one side of the speaker.
[36:50.760 --> 36:51.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: So let's call that number again.
[36:51.900 --> 36:53.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: And let's actually listen to some of these sounds.
[36:56.560 --> 36:58.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: And maybe they'll make us think of summertime.
[36:59.140 --> 36:59.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wouldn't that be nice?
[37:01.020 --> 37:02.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what happens if you don't have a Touch-Tone phone.
[37:02.800 --> 37:03.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it just hangs up on you.
[37:05.050 --> 37:07.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow, it's hot, all right.
[37:07.340 --> 37:09.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: The newest fun way to stay warm during the...
[37:09.800 --> 37:12.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, the first warm was, uh, let's hear some people playing golf.
[37:12.820 --> 37:14.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow, it's hot, hotline.
[37:14.680 --> 37:15.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's hear...
[37:15.460 --> 37:15.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's right.
[37:15.940 --> 37:17.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't interrupt her until she finishes with the speech.
[37:18.240 --> 37:19.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: They help you warm up.
[37:19.100 --> 37:20.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's absolutely free.
[37:20.620 --> 37:26.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: All you need is a Touch-Tone phone, and you can hear as many sounds as you'd like as many times as you want.
[37:26.220 --> 37:26.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Isn't that nice?
[37:26.640 --> 37:29.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just by pressing the number of the sound you want to hear.
[37:29.700 --> 37:33.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling the MCI Wow, It's Hot, hotline.
[37:33.560 --> 37:36.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear people playing golf, press one.
[37:37.240 --> 37:37.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, boy.
[37:40.700 --> 37:42.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds like someone being beaten, actually.
[37:46.420 --> 37:47.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: That sounds like somebody driving.
[37:48.860 --> 37:51.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: And not driving with golf, but driving a car.
[37:53.420 --> 37:54.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, there's another whipping there.
[38:11.820 --> 38:13.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I don't really know what that sound was.
[38:13.720 --> 38:15.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: In golf, press one.
[38:15.420 --> 38:17.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear a baseball game, press two.
[38:17.900 --> 38:19.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, let's go for the baseball game next.
[38:19.340 --> 38:20.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, that sounded like somebody belching at the end there.
[38:20.940 --> 38:25.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if somebody hacked into their system and re-recorded something, or if that's an essential part of playing golf.
[38:26.020 --> 38:27.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: But let's go to the baseball game now.
[38:39.890 --> 38:42.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear people playing golf, press one.
[38:42.730 --> 38:45.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear a baseball game, press two.
[38:45.510 --> 38:47.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear seagulls, press three.
[38:47.730 --> 38:48.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Seagulls.
[39:07.080 --> 39:09.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: The great thing about the system is you can interrupt it.
[39:09.200 --> 39:10.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And let's go back to playing golf.
[39:13.460 --> 39:15.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's skip ahead, and I don't know what number four is.
[39:15.440 --> 39:16.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it might be tropical birds.
[39:18.360 --> 39:19.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's not.
[39:19.800 --> 39:21.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: That sounds like a speedboat of some sort.
[39:27.170 --> 39:29.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is just what we need to get out of the winter doldrums.
[39:31.410 --> 39:34.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: The only question is, what does it have to do with MCI?
[39:35.510 --> 39:37.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And how can they afford this?
[39:38.070 --> 39:39.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's an 800 number, after all.
[39:42.900 --> 39:43.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, not for this boat.
[39:43.780 --> 39:44.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go somewhere else.
[39:46.150 --> 39:47.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ah, tropical birds.
[39:56.730 --> 39:58.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Isn't it the same bird that was on Pee Wee's Playhouse?
[39:59.130 --> 40:00.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm pretty sure it was.
[40:02.670 --> 40:03.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, let's go somewhere else.
[40:09.000 --> 40:10.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sounds sort of like...
[40:10.280 --> 40:11.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think this is a...
[40:11.900 --> 40:13.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a stream or something.
[40:20.730 --> 40:22.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: These are the sounds New Yorkers are familiar with.
[40:26.480 --> 40:27.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's skip ahead.
[40:40.650 --> 40:41.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Fogger would love this.
[40:43.550 --> 40:44.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Number eight.
[40:47.280 --> 40:48.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, it's little children playing.
[40:48.900 --> 40:49.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what it is.
[41:07.180 --> 41:09.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: And let's finish off with the finale.
[41:09.680 --> 41:10.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which is a...
[41:11.780 --> 41:12.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: vendor...
[41:12.300 --> 41:13.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: at a baseball game.
[41:21.900 --> 41:23.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, that's what it is.
[41:26.240 --> 41:26.760]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yes,
[41:31.940 --> 41:32.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: that's what it is.
[41:32.320 --> 41:33.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can go through them all really fast.
[41:44.560 --> 41:48.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And of course, if you hit other keys, you get her.
[41:53.920 --> 41:59.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, let's find out why this particular service exists in the first place.
[41:59.320 --> 42:00.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't understand it myself.
[42:01.700 --> 42:05.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, let's pair in MCI customer service here.
[42:07.100 --> 42:07.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, not on that line.
[42:11.440 --> 42:14.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every time we hit a button, we're going to get another sound effect here.
[42:21.820 --> 42:23.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's going to be hard to explain this to the operator.
[42:25.690 --> 42:26.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for calling me, guys.
[42:27.050 --> 42:28.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear people playing golf, press...
[42:28.900 --> 42:29.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello?
[42:29.540 --> 42:31.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear a baseball game, press 2.
[42:32.380 --> 42:34.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear seagulls, press 3.
[42:34.920 --> 42:35.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, hello, are you there?
[42:36.040 --> 42:36.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[42:36.440 --> 42:38.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, sorry, I paired in two conversations there at once.
[42:39.040 --> 42:40.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was wondering if you could answer a question for me.
[42:40.960 --> 42:41.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're MCI, right?
[42:41.940 --> 42:42.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, this is MCI.
[42:42.820 --> 42:49.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I've been handed a promotional piece of paper here about a promotion that MCI is doing called Wow, It's Hot.
[42:49.880 --> 42:50.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you familiar with that?
[42:51.200 --> 42:51.840]  No, I'm not.
[42:51.840 --> 42:52.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've never heard of it, huh?
[42:53.320 --> 42:55.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is there a way to find out who's behind this?
[42:56.160 --> 42:56.720]  [SPEAKER_24]: What's the...
[42:56.720 --> 42:57.920]  [SPEAKER_24]: Is there any 800 numbers or anything?
[42:57.920 --> 43:01.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's 800-969-4874.
[43:02.070 --> 43:02.480]  What's it?
[43:02.800 --> 43:03.200]  969?
[43:03.900 --> 43:04.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: 4874.
[43:05.040 --> 43:05.440]  4874.
[43:05.860 --> 43:10.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and it's called MCI Wow, It's Hot, and they play basically sound effects from the summertime.
[43:12.550 --> 43:14.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was just kind of wondering why.
[43:15.680 --> 43:17.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: Is that what the recording I was listening to?
[43:17.720 --> 43:20.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you see, I have 4-Way on this phone line here.
[43:21.480 --> 43:22.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it just sort of...
[43:22.940 --> 43:23.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, It's Hot.
[43:24.200 --> 43:24.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it didn't hang up.
[43:26.760 --> 43:27.070]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hmm.
[43:28.740 --> 43:30.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: You haven't heard anything about that, huh?
[43:30.500 --> 43:31.200]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, I haven't.
[43:31.240 --> 43:31.980]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's the first time I've ever heard it.
[43:32.000 --> 43:33.300]  [SPEAKER_21]: I wonder what I was listening to there.
[43:33.440 --> 43:34.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's basically kind of nice.
[43:34.900 --> 43:37.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can listen to speedboats and tropical birds and things like that.
[43:38.240 --> 43:40.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it just doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with long distance, you know?
[43:41.680 --> 43:42.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's kind of some kind of...
[43:42.540 --> 43:44.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: You can just dial it straight from your home, huh?
[43:44.120 --> 43:45.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you can dial it from anywhere.
[43:45.260 --> 43:46.460]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's called Wow, It's Hot.
[43:46.580 --> 43:47.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, It's Hot, yeah.
[43:48.200 --> 43:50.180]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wow, It's Hot.
[43:50.920 --> 43:52.780]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay, you just recently received this brochure?
[43:52.960 --> 43:56.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, actually, it came to me in a message on a computer system.
[43:56.700 --> 43:59.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: It wasn't straight from MCI, but it is an MCI recording.
[43:59.860 --> 44:02.560]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay, it might come across from a modem system or a...
[44:02.560 --> 44:03.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, one of those modem systems.
[44:05.260 --> 44:06.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: Bulletin boards, is that what you call them?
[44:06.420 --> 44:06.940]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, yep.
[44:06.980 --> 44:07.360]  [SPEAKER_21]: Computer-wise?
[44:07.500 --> 44:08.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, that's it.
[44:08.120 --> 44:08.560]  [SPEAKER_21]: Bulletin boards?
[44:08.640 --> 44:09.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bulletin boards.
[44:09.240 --> 44:09.660]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, okay.
[44:09.980 --> 44:10.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hmm.
[44:11.200 --> 44:13.920]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, it may be an 800, an MCI 800 number, but they...
[44:14.380 --> 44:16.380]  [SPEAKER_21]: You know, I don't know if maybe the...
[44:16.380 --> 44:21.980]  [SPEAKER_21]: You know, if somebody has done this on their own or something, I don't know if anything is associated with the MCI.
[44:22.320 --> 44:24.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they do say this is MCI when you call.
[44:24.680 --> 44:27.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: It says this is the MCI Wow, It's Hot hotline.
[44:27.840 --> 44:27.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm.
[44:28.520 --> 44:28.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: So...
[44:28.840 --> 44:32.620]  [SPEAKER_21]: Let me punch it up here and see if I find any information on that in our information system.
[44:32.660 --> 44:32.900]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[44:32.900 --> 44:33.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: Are you okay?
[44:33.780 --> 44:34.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: That sounds good.
[44:34.560 --> 44:34.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hold on.
[44:41.730 --> 44:42.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[44:46.080 --> 44:47.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just punching it up here.
[44:54.530 --> 44:54.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm.
[44:56.190 --> 44:57.130]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wow, it's hot.
[44:57.970 --> 44:58.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anything coming up?
[44:59.210 --> 45:00.310]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, I don't have anything.
[45:00.690 --> 45:00.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm.
[45:00.910 --> 45:01.450]  [SPEAKER_21]: Let me, uh...
[45:01.450 --> 45:03.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's come across on a bulletin board system?
[45:03.630 --> 45:06.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's being passed around everywhere as far as I can see.
[45:06.410 --> 45:10.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: People are talking about this and it's causing a lot of excitement, but nobody really knows why.
[45:10.650 --> 45:12.850]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hey, well, let me, uh, contact our customer relations here.
[45:12.870 --> 45:14.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: You want to hold for me just a second?
[45:14.190 --> 45:16.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, if you just pass it on to them, I just figured I'd let you know.
[45:16.470 --> 45:16.910]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sure, okay.
[45:17.010 --> 45:17.650]  [SPEAKER_21]: Let me, uh...
[45:17.650 --> 45:18.250]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sure, thanks.
[45:18.510 --> 45:18.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[45:19.230 --> 45:19.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[45:19.530 --> 45:19.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Take care.
[45:20.590 --> 45:27.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we could, uh, we could do this all night long, but, uh, we have people waiting to get on the phone here, so, uh, we'll just have to solve this mystery at some other point.
[45:27.710 --> 45:32.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: But MCI knows about it now, so if somebody out there saying this is MCI and they're not MCI, well, your days are numbered.
[45:33.570 --> 45:36.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I think it is MCI, I just don't know what they're up to.
[45:37.490 --> 45:38.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, it's hot, all right.
[45:39.750 --> 45:40.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[45:40.850 --> 45:43.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Our number is 212-279-3400.
[45:44.190 --> 45:45.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is off the hook.
[45:45.590 --> 45:48.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's, uh, see who's out there and see what's on their minds.
[45:48.770 --> 45:49.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on.
[45:49.970 --> 45:51.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hi, great show.
[45:51.130 --> 45:56.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: It could just be like a public service, um, you know, corporate feel-good gesture.
[45:56.790 --> 45:57.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know.
[45:57.490 --> 46:03.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's a feel-good gesture, but it's an 800 number, and I just have the feeling that somehow the rates pay for the 800 numbers.
[46:04.030 --> 46:06.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I don't know, but listen, I have four brief questions.
[46:06.910 --> 46:09.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: Should I just ask them sequentially and hang up?
[46:09.450 --> 46:09.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
[46:10.270 --> 46:18.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, the first question, ever since I heard about fiber optic situation, the thing that came to mind is, why didn't he just skip the candor?
[46:18.810 --> 46:21.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, why is he, like, voluntarily going through it?
[46:21.770 --> 46:24.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I guess it's probably best if I answer your questions one by one.
[46:24.390 --> 46:31.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, probably because he couldn't deal with, uh, not ever seeing his family again, not ever seeing his friends again, and not ever being around here again.
[46:32.350 --> 46:32.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[46:32.790 --> 46:33.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think that had something to do with it.
[46:33.890 --> 46:40.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Question number two is, about two years ago, you did a show where you broke the MasterCard, um, algorithms.
[46:41.170 --> 46:41.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you remember that?
[46:42.050 --> 46:43.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we didn't really break an algorithm.
[46:43.830 --> 46:44.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Basically, we just explained it.
[46:45.050 --> 46:48.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: Anything new on that situation since, um, that report?
[46:48.330 --> 46:50.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's still the same, same basic system.
[46:51.310 --> 46:54.590]  [SPEAKER_20]: No more information about the numbers or any tricks or anything?
[46:54.790 --> 46:56.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, if I can, I can explain it very quickly.
[46:56.590 --> 47:07.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Basically, you take your, um, MasterCard, Visa, American Express, any credit card, uh, and if it's, um, if it's, if the total numbers are even, in other words, if there are 16 numbers, that's, uh, an even numbered card.
[47:08.270 --> 47:10.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, what you do is, you double every odd number.
[47:11.010 --> 47:13.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: You double the first number, you double the third number, you double the fifth number.
[47:14.070 --> 47:21.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: If, if doubling it brings it above 10, you subtract 9, and then you add all the numbers up, and they should be divisible by 10.
[47:21.850 --> 47:29.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, if it's an odd numbered, uh, credit card, if it has, say, you know, 13 digits or something like that, then you double the even numbered ones, 2, 4, 6, 8.
[47:29.590 --> 47:35.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Again, if they, if they go above 10, when you double them, subtract 9, add them all up, they should be divisible by 10.
[47:35.310 --> 47:36.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Otherwise, it's not a valid card.
[47:36.550 --> 47:43.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: Question number three, is there any way of defeating their new telephone thing where the phone automatically hangs up here for X number of rings?
[47:44.690 --> 47:55.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, there's no way because right now, the way that is set up, it's set up with, uh, the local central office, uh, and the local central office simply disconnects with, there's no, uh, no connection made.
[47:55.830 --> 47:56.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: Why do they do it?
[47:57.230 --> 48:01.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, they, generally they do it after about, I think, 40, 50, or 60 rings.
[48:01.310 --> 48:05.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not sure exactly how many, uh, or it might be a, a time, uh, function.
[48:05.390 --> 48:07.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, because this is something relatively new.
[48:07.390 --> 48:08.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: My last question is more a comment.
[48:09.630 --> 48:30.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, I live in a, you know, depressed neighborhood in the Bronx, and I'm sort of aware of in terms of technology and the information revolution about how those who are poor or live in minority neighborhoods or whatnot sort of have always been, but even more so now are sort of being left behind in terms of,
[48:30.430 --> 48:34.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: you know, not only computers and technology, but stuff like cable television.
[48:34.790 --> 48:36.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: And telephone services.
[48:36.710 --> 48:37.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Payphones.
[48:37.390 --> 48:41.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, that's why we have so many COCOTs up in, uh, in, in depressed neighborhoods.
[48:41.270 --> 48:50.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you would address it sometimes in terms of the economic and social disparity, and what people think about the future of technology and bringing it to all people.
[48:50.310 --> 48:50.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[48:50.870 --> 48:53.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's something I addressed in my, uh, congressional testimony last year.
[48:54.030 --> 49:01.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, basically we're on the verge of creating a society of haves and a society of have-nots, the gulf between which we've never seen before.
[49:01.970 --> 49:10.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: People that have all this great computer equipment right in their homes and people that have absolutely nothing that can't even feed themselves, uh, and, and just being separated by a few blocks.
[49:10.870 --> 49:13.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a very dangerous situation.
[49:13.030 --> 49:18.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's something that's, uh, that's very bad for society and something that's, uh, not incomprehensible.
[49:19.130 --> 49:20.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not impossible to solve.
[49:21.070 --> 49:22.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's basically access.
[49:22.430 --> 49:23.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: who killed Kennedy?
[49:23.570 --> 49:24.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: Take care.
[49:24.250 --> 49:25.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, we'll work on that.
[49:26.330 --> 49:29.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Boy, if we had been around, maybe we would have figured it out then.
[49:30.810 --> 49:32.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-279-3400.
[49:32.370 --> 49:32.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[49:32.870 --> 49:33.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on.
[49:33.490 --> 49:34.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Who killed Kennedy?
[49:34.370 --> 49:35.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's, that's crazy.
[49:35.690 --> 49:35.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[49:36.570 --> 49:44.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: Um, are you going to, uh, get into some, um, some, uh, cellular hacking, perhaps, uh, maybe talk about some cellular hacking?
[49:44.790 --> 49:48.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we'll, we'll certainly spread information around as far as, uh, as how things are done.
[49:48.890 --> 49:51.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: We've, we've talked about it before, although not very much in depth.
[49:51.970 --> 49:52.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[49:52.270 --> 49:59.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, one of the reasons I haven't talked about it is because I don't have a cellular phone and I've, I've never really, uh, felt like getting a cellular phone because there's such rip-offs.
[49:59.790 --> 50:00.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[50:00.190 --> 50:08.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's not just that, but I was very interested in the cloning and, uh, well, you see, a legitimate use for cloning would be if you want your own extension.
[50:08.670 --> 50:18.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it's, it's hard for me to imagine the logic that, that says you're not allowed to have another phone with the same phone number with the same, uh, you know, code and everything like that, same ASN.
[50:18.590 --> 50:22.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it's the same logic that says you can't have an extent, another TV set hooked up to your cable.
[50:22.890 --> 50:25.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you're already paying for it, as far as I'm concerned, you can do whatever you want with it.
[50:26.230 --> 50:26.490]  [SPEAKER_24]: Right.
[50:26.670 --> 50:28.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, so yeah, I mean, I would agree with that.
[50:28.150 --> 50:33.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: The thing is, I don't want it because, first of all, you're broadcasting your, your conversations out to everybody that can hear them.
[50:33.950 --> 50:37.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, you're, you're, you're paying, even when you get an incoming call, you're paying astronomical rates.
[50:38.090 --> 50:41.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: When those things start changing, maybe, maybe I'll actually break down and get one.
[50:42.250 --> 50:42.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[50:43.050 --> 50:46.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, um, can I get the telephone number for Wow It's Hot?
[50:46.790 --> 50:47.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: That sounds like a lot of fun.
[50:47.750 --> 50:49.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah, you can, you can spend, uh, hours at this.
[50:50.130 --> 50:53.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it's, uh, 1-800-969-4874.
[50:53.790 --> 50:55.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure that spells something, but I don't know what.
[50:55.990 --> 50:56.310]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[50:56.810 --> 50:57.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thanks, I love your show.
[50:57.730 --> 50:58.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, take care.
[50:58.450 --> 50:58.550]  Bye.
[50:59.650 --> 51:02.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, we, we just keep finding these amazing numbers, don't we?
[51:02.530 --> 51:03.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, it's hot.
[51:03.950 --> 51:04.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on.
[51:06.150 --> 51:06.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is me.
[51:07.030 --> 51:07.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, how are you?
[51:09.790 --> 51:10.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Delayed.
[51:10.270 --> 51:11.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, we are delayed.
[51:11.390 --> 51:11.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hold on a second.
[51:12.570 --> 51:12.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Here we are.
[51:13.450 --> 51:26.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, last week, you spoke, uh, sort of briefly, about a piece of legislation called, uh, paradoxically, or maybe ironically, the Digital Telephony Communications Privacy Improvement Act.
[51:26.690 --> 51:26.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[51:27.150 --> 51:27.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: 94.
[51:27.850 --> 51:28.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[51:28.230 --> 51:31.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't believe they actually call that the Privacy Improvement Act.
[51:31.750 --> 51:39.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, uh, what this is going to do is basically destroy much of the privacy which we have in communications.
[51:39.890 --> 51:49.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, um, there was a, a fairly good-sized article on Monday the 28th in, on the, uh, first business page of the Times.
[51:49.510 --> 51:49.750]  [SPEAKER_24]: Mm-hmm.
[51:50.090 --> 51:58.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, which you didn't mention last week, and I'd like to sort of direct people to take a look at that article because it goes into more depth than I want to waste time doing tonight.
[51:58.790 --> 52:05.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I just wanted to sort of put out two quotes, or maybe three quotes from this article which, uh, are pretty significant.
[52:05.790 --> 52:05.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[52:07.690 --> 52:13.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: this is quoting, um, Lewis Free, who's the director of the FBI.
[52:14.150 --> 52:27.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, the quote is, the costs are high, but you have to do a cost-benefit analysis, says Mr. Free, who insisted that fighting terrorists and criminals was the government's intention, not playing big brother to the citizenry.
[52:27.350 --> 52:28.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: How reassuring.
[52:28.610 --> 52:29.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ha, ha, ha.
[52:29.710 --> 52:51.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, the administration, this is not a quote, but it's a quote from the article, the administration wants to impose new technology that would enable law enforcement agents to gather a wealth of personal information by monitoring citizens' calling patterns and credit card transactions over the telephone network and over the two-way cable television networks being planned by cable and phone
[52:51.610 --> 52:52.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: companies.
[52:52.070 --> 53:04.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: The system would go well beyond current wiretapping technology because much of the information could be gleaned without the police or FBI actually having to eavesdrop on specific voice or electronic mail conversations.
[53:06.010 --> 53:07.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: I find that very, very scary.
[53:08.110 --> 53:16.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that is very scary and it begs a response from us insofar as how do we protect our privacy, how do we protect our anonymity, anonymity is not a crime.
[53:16.910 --> 53:18.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a right as far as I'm concerned.
[53:18.830 --> 53:22.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's something that we all have the right to use to our benefit.
[53:24.510 --> 53:26.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are many ways we can do this.
[53:26.190 --> 53:29.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: We can create all kinds of duplicate IDs.
[53:29.430 --> 53:36.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: We can create unlisted numbers and dead ends so people can't find specific information out about us.
[53:36.770 --> 53:40.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's becoming increasingly difficult to do that.
[53:40.930 --> 53:41.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know it is.
[53:41.790 --> 53:42.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you know, I read something today.
[53:43.350 --> 53:54.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of all places, Ann Landers or Dear Abby, one of those, they said, they had written to somebody, this was concerning somebody whose conscience was tearing them apart because they had a fake social security number.
[53:54.790 --> 54:05.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not illegal, at least according to the social security administration, it's not illegal to have a social security number under a different name, to have a second one under a different name, something with a different number.
[54:05.370 --> 54:06.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know that.
[54:06.710 --> 54:08.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I find that hard to believe.
[54:08.710 --> 54:09.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's what they said.
[54:09.630 --> 54:12.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's in today's paper, and I suggest people go out there and try it.
[54:12.250 --> 54:18.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can present yourself in the world under any name you choose so long as it's not for the purposes of fraud.
[54:18.530 --> 54:25.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, as long as you pay your taxes or whatever, you know, and you don't use it to defraud, you can be whoever you want to be, and I think people should take advantage of that.
[54:25.390 --> 54:32.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Be who you want to be, take advantage of the mentality that pervades the computer world where you pick your own name.
[54:32.330 --> 54:36.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: You pick your own name and everything about it, and you're judged basically on what you say and what you do.
[54:37.330 --> 54:39.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, we can do this in real life too.
[54:39.150 --> 54:42.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: We can come up with as many different identities as we want, as long as we don't use them to defraud.
[54:42.970 --> 54:44.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: They don't have to be used for that.
[54:44.290 --> 55:05.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, on just a tangential note on that, which is a particular quirk of mine, with bulletin board systems, it's becoming very difficult to just sign on or register on a bulletin board system without giving your real name because even now, bulletin boards are doing caller IDs on registrations.
[55:05.310 --> 55:09.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, then there's ways of calling without using caller ID, and you have to do that.
[55:09.770 --> 55:10.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[55:10.230 --> 55:16.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to block your number, you have to call through another system, and yeah, this caller ID can be used in a very bad way.
[55:16.210 --> 55:17.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have to be very careful.
[55:17.150 --> 55:24.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, what particularly bothers me is that within our own community of the online community, it's becoming difficult to do that.
[55:24.510 --> 55:24.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[55:24.790 --> 55:28.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Perhaps somebody will come up with a service where they will reroute your phone call.
[55:28.110 --> 55:30.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: In other words, let's say you want to make a local phone call in New York City.
[55:31.150 --> 55:37.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you call this number, and they simply bounce your number over to where you really want to call, and their number shows up on the caller ID.
[55:37.190 --> 55:41.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, you can't charge a whole lot of money for that because it's not very expensive for you to do.
[55:41.490 --> 55:45.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a one-time charge of like 10 cents or something when you pass the call over.
[55:46.910 --> 55:48.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: multiply it by a lot of calls and it could be a business.
[55:49.130 --> 56:04.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, but if you charge somebody a small amount, and not a dollar a minute or something crazy like that, you charge somebody a few cents to do this, whatever it takes to cover your cost and to make a small profit, it will be a very valuable service, and I hope somebody out there can do this.
[56:04.790 --> 56:12.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: The last real quick thing I wanted to give you from this article is, again, reporting what Free said.
[56:12.490 --> 56:20.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: He said that taxpayers would be asked to pay up to a half a billion dollars to develop and deploy the necessary network software.
[56:21.090 --> 56:21.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[56:21.650 --> 56:22.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, what's this guy's name?
[56:22.850 --> 56:25.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Louis Free, the director of the FBI.
[56:25.310 --> 56:26.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: How do you spell his last name?
[56:26.630 --> 56:28.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: F-R-E-E-H.
[56:29.350 --> 56:31.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, that H is what makes him stand out.
[56:32.450 --> 56:33.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: I knew there was something in there.
[56:33.730 --> 56:33.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[56:34.190 --> 56:34.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll let you go.
[56:35.070 --> 56:35.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks.
[56:36.670 --> 56:38.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's see if we can fit in another phone call.
[56:38.570 --> 56:39.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on.
[56:39.690 --> 56:40.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, hi.
[56:40.290 --> 56:40.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hold on.
[56:41.830 --> 56:46.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I just wanted to give information on the Computer's Freedom and Privacy Conference.
[56:46.250 --> 56:48.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, you'll have to speak up a little bit because you've got a bad connection here.
[56:48.830 --> 56:50.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: An email address, which is...
[56:50.170 --> 56:50.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, what's that?
[56:52.450 --> 56:54.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: CFP94 at jmls.edu.
[56:56.190 --> 56:57.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: jmls.edu?
[56:57.470 --> 57:02.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, cfp94 at jmls.edu.
[57:02.530 --> 57:02.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[57:03.150 --> 57:07.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Phone number 312-987-1419.
[57:08.350 --> 57:13.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there's a fax, 312-427-8307.
[57:13.530 --> 57:14.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, I'm glad you had that information.
[57:15.130 --> 57:16.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I could not find that anywhere in this pamphlet.
[57:16.870 --> 57:17.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: I got this from Wired.
[57:18.250 --> 57:19.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: I had a little add in Wired.
[57:19.890 --> 57:20.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, that's great.
[57:20.950 --> 57:21.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, thanks.
[57:21.430 --> 57:21.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks.
[57:23.330 --> 57:26.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Living proof that WBAI listeners have the information.
[57:26.250 --> 57:27.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: We just need to get together and share it.
[57:28.210 --> 57:28.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on.
[57:30.950 --> 57:31.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[57:31.950 --> 57:32.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on.
[57:33.230 --> 57:33.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello?
[57:33.850 --> 57:34.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, turn on your radio, please.
[57:35.330 --> 57:35.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening, you're on.
[57:36.190 --> 57:36.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes, hello?
[57:36.890 --> 57:37.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[57:37.850 --> 57:38.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you there?
[57:38.890 --> 57:39.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Am I on the air now?
[57:39.890 --> 57:40.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, you are.
[57:40.950 --> 57:41.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[57:41.570 --> 57:42.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: I can't believe I finally got through.
[57:43.410 --> 57:44.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're in a car phone, aren't you?
[57:44.650 --> 57:46.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: One thing I heard you talking about cellular technology.
[57:47.110 --> 57:47.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Can I...
[57:47.410 --> 57:52.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: Actually, what you're talking about exists and is legal and I believe it was a court case where it was won.
[57:52.390 --> 57:54.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's called cellular emanation.
[57:54.390 --> 57:54.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[57:54.610 --> 58:00.430]  [SPEAKER_19]: As long as you don't use both instruments simultaneously, to the best of my knowledge, it's legal and it's being sold now.
[58:01.330 --> 58:03.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I've heard differing views on that.
[58:03.870 --> 58:08.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've heard some people say it is legal, some people say it isn't legal, and I'm not clear as to what it is in New York.
[58:09.230 --> 58:09.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: It has not been...
[58:09.730 --> 58:14.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I was just actually looking into it for myself for some particular reasons that I won't go into where I thought it would be very helpful.
[58:14.790 --> 58:19.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I spoke to the president of the company who was actually in Huntington in one of the local places.
[58:19.770 --> 58:25.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: He said the FCC has granted them a license and they're doing it above board and with literature and it appears to be legal.
[58:25.810 --> 58:26.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you have the name of this company?
[58:28.330 --> 58:28.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sir?
[58:29.650 --> 58:31.970]  [SPEAKER_19]: Just another two quick ones while I have you.
[58:32.290 --> 58:33.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess you can't hear me.
[58:33.170 --> 58:34.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: Some hacker trivia.
[58:34.770 --> 58:35.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[58:35.270 --> 58:43.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have a copy of a magazine which I think was the first magazine that was ever recalled because of the communication information inside of it.
[58:43.730 --> 58:44.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: Any idea of what it is?
[58:44.850 --> 58:46.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are you talking about Tell Magazine?
[58:46.630 --> 58:48.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, it's a rampart actually.
[58:48.590 --> 58:49.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, tell me.
[58:50.290 --> 58:51.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: What is it?
[58:51.470 --> 58:54.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: It contained the diagram for a telephone mute.
[58:55.250 --> 58:55.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[58:55.670 --> 59:01.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: And as a result at that time AT&T which was the local carrier or, you know, took them to court.
[59:01.890 --> 59:03.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, this was in the 70s.
[59:03.130 --> 59:03.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think it was 73.
[59:03.910 --> 59:04.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'd have to look it up.
[59:04.850 --> 59:05.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm in the car now.
[59:05.670 --> 59:08.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: And actually forced the You are in the car.
[59:08.730 --> 59:09.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I knew it.
[59:09.070 --> 59:09.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: I knew it.
[59:09.550 --> 59:11.790]  [SPEAKER_19]: And only those who subscribed actually got the magazine.
[59:12.550 --> 59:13.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: I see.
[59:14.130 --> 59:16.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: And the last, just a last quick question.
[59:16.450 --> 59:17.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, you have, you have 10 seconds.
[59:18.070 --> 59:19.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm happy you can hear me.
[59:21.870 --> 59:24.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm trying to have a time although I find some of the communication stuff interesting.
[59:24.250 --> 59:27.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: This seems to be an invasion of privacy for the wrong side.
[59:28.010 --> 59:38.490]  [SPEAKER_19]: What they were selling was a device that they stated would allow the user to break into any telephone answering machine up to three digits and gain complete access.
[59:38.770 --> 59:39.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: Are you familiar with that at all?
[59:39.990 --> 59:40.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've heard of that.
[59:40.930 --> 59:47.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've heard of that and I sure would like to see it because if such a device exists then we should know about it and we should make sure everybody knows about it.
[59:48.070 --> 59:52.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if that means they get to sell their device, fine, but at least let people know that it exists in the first place.
[59:52.430 --> 59:52.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[59:52.870 --> 59:55.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you want the name of the company that's actually putting it out?
[59:55.690 --> 59:56.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sure, go ahead.
[59:56.510 --> 59:58.870]  Or that's where I saw the advertisement, the brochure?
[59:59.050 --> 01:00:01.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but make it fast because we have like one second now.
[01:00:02.450 --> 01:00:02.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[01:00:03.070 --> 01:00:04.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: Should I do it off the air or on?
[01:00:05.010 --> 01:00:06.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, give it to us right now.
[01:00:06.230 --> 01:00:06.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[01:00:06.650 --> 01:00:12.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's a place called Phoenix System that I think somewhere in the Midwest that I don't...
[01:00:12.090 --> 01:00:22.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Again, I could drop your note on it but they get into all kinds of crazy weaponry and you know, right-wing technology and spy kinds of information and this is the one that I saw that really upset me.
[01:00:23.450 --> 01:00:28.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well thanks very much for the information and if you pass it on to us, we'll pass it on in the air.
[01:00:28.790 --> 01:00:29.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, thank you.
[01:00:30.070 --> 01:00:30.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Take care.
[01:00:30.530 --> 01:00:30.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good talking to you, Manuel.
[01:00:31.090 --> 01:00:31.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, bye-bye.
[01:00:32.530 --> 01:00:36.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's another reason why I won't use a cellular phone because you can't hear people half the time.
[01:00:36.990 --> 01:00:41.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's all this noise but the technology is improving.
[01:00:42.270 --> 01:00:46.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: It'll get there someday and when it gets there I'll be waiting for it.
[01:00:46.570 --> 01:00:47.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: See you next week.
[01:00:47.370 --> 01:00:47.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good night.
[01:01:22.940 --> 01:01:23.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[01:01:24.220 --> 01:01:30.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: In the news tonight, the tobacco industry turns out in force against attempts to raise taxes on cigarettes.
[01:01:30.460 --> 01:01:46.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some say the nation's economy is turning around but average Americans can't tell it by their pocketbooks and in New York there's a verdict in the trial of the man accused of killing Latino journalist Manuel de Dios Unanue while labor groups charge that some New Yorkers are working in slave-like conditions.
[01:01:47.080 --> 01:01:55.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: With these and other stories, I'm Jose Santiago in New York with Verna Avery-Brown in Washington and this is the news for Wednesday, March 9, 1994.
[01:01:55.380 --> 01:01:58.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
[01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:07.700]  [SPEAKER_29]: The Tuesday Texas primaries claimed one of the nation's most progressive congressmen, Houston's Craig Washington, who was beaten by a conservative black Democrat.
[01:02:08.080 --> 01:02:13.240]  [SPEAKER_29]: Pacifica's Kyle Huckins reports that powerful business interests helped unseat the Congressional Black Caucus member.
[01:02:13.240 --> 01:02:27.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: The winner, Houston City Councilwoman Sheila Jackson Lee, was able to raise and spend twice as much money as Washington, depending largely on local business leaders unhappy with the congressman's votes against the North American Free Trade Agreement and the state's pork barrel projects.
[01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:31.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: But Washington remained unapologetic, saying he's an activist, not a politician.
[01:02:31.900 --> 01:02:33.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I made a conscious choice.
[01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:37.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I set my course for the wind.
[01:02:37.780 --> 01:02:39.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I knew where I was going all along.
[01:02:39.980 --> 01:02:42.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I knew that there would be winds pushing against me.
[01:02:42.440 --> 01:02:43.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I knew that there would be...
[01:02:43.700 --> 01:02:49.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm intelligent enough to know that the way to go along and get along in politics is to do it a different way.
[01:02:49.780 --> 01:02:56.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Washington says funding for public housing and other urban needs is more important than supporting the state's super collider or space station.
[01:02:56.740 --> 01:03:01.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: He was elected to the seat in 1989, succeeding Mickey Leland and Barbara Jordan.
[01:03:01.900 --> 01:03:05.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: For Pacifica Network News, I'm Kyle Huckins in Houston.
[01:03:05.380 --> 01:03:11.900]  [SPEAKER_29]: In Waco, Texas, a judge has reinstated weapons convictions he had previously dismissed against seven branch Davidians.
[01:03:12.100 --> 01:03:19.740]  [SPEAKER_29]: A federal court jury last month cleared all 11 branch Davidians on conspiracy to murder charges but convicted seven on weapons violations.
[01:03:20.060 --> 01:03:25.420]  [SPEAKER_29]: Federal Judge Walter Smith originally dismissed the verdicts because they were based on the conspiracy to murder charges.
[01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:28.760]  [SPEAKER_29]: Smith has not offered an explanation for his change of mind.
[01:03:29.080 --> 01:03:38.980]  [SPEAKER_29]: The Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair John Shalikasvili said today that as many as 50,000 Western troops, half of them American, will be needed to oversee a Bosnian peace agreement.
[01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:46.500]  [SPEAKER_29]: Meanwhile, Turkey has offered to send 1,000 troops to Bosnia and the British government is expected to raise the numbers of their troops in the area.
[01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:52.100]  [SPEAKER_29]: From Berlin, Paul Hakkinoz has this report on European moves to build on the recent successes in Bosnia.
[01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:56.380]  [SPEAKER_28]: In Europe's capitals today, diplomats continue to work towards peace in Bosnia.
[01:03:56.700 --> 01:04:03.600]  [SPEAKER_28]: In Moscow, the Bosnian Prime Minister met with the Russian Foreign Minister, Andrei Kosarev, to discuss the proposed Muslim-Croat Federation.
[01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:09.000]  [SPEAKER_28]: Moscow has yet to back the plan which would create a multinational Muslim-Croat state within Bosnia.
[01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:13.820]  [SPEAKER_28]: All of those involved know that the support of Russia and Serbia is vital if the plan is to succeed.
[01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:18.540]  [SPEAKER_28]: The Bosnian Prime Minister charged the Russian government with favoritism toward the Bosnian Serbs.
[01:04:19.060 --> 01:04:20.300]  [SPEAKER_28]: Moscow rejected the charge.
[01:04:20.780 --> 01:04:24.800]  [SPEAKER_28]: On another front, France announced that it will send an additional 800 soldiers to Sarajevo.
[01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:28.400]  [SPEAKER_28]: The offer came in response to a UN request for 10,000 more troops.
[01:04:28.720 --> 01:04:36.040]  [SPEAKER_28]: The French and the British, the largest contributors of troops, claim that other countries too, such as the U.S., should begin to shoulder their share of the responsibility.
[01:04:36.580 --> 01:04:39.220]  [SPEAKER_28]: This is Paul Hakkinoz reporting for Pacifica Network News.
[01:04:39.520 --> 01:04:50.980]  [SPEAKER_29]: More than 400 Palestinians, including 130 members of the PLO leadership, today signed a petition demanding that peace talks remain suspended until Palestinian security is secured.
[01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:57.480]  [SPEAKER_29]: The petition calls for the dismantling of Jewish settlements and international protection for Palestinians in the occupied territories.
[01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:04.440]  [SPEAKER_29]: And at the PLO headquarters in Tunis, 100 staff signed another petition urging suspension of talks with Israel.
[01:05:04.700 --> 01:05:11.800]  [SPEAKER_29]: Relations between the PLO and Israel have deteriorated since Jewish settler Baruch Goldstein massacred Palestinian worshippers.
[01:05:12.080 --> 01:05:18.500]  [SPEAKER_29]: And today, an Israeli commission of inquiry into the massacre inspected the Hebron Mosque where the incident occurred.
[01:05:18.740 --> 01:05:26.500]  [SPEAKER_29]: An officer on duty at the time of the shooting told the commission that soldiers saw Baruch Goldstein arrive in a white car and wearing headphones.
[01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:32.480]  [SPEAKER_29]: A government spokesperson also said that a letter of confession from Goldstein was found in an adjoining room.
[01:05:32.640 --> 01:05:35.380]  [SPEAKER_29]: A five-member commission began their inquiry yesterday.
[01:05:35.700 --> 01:05:37.600]  [SPEAKER_29]: And those are the stories topping the news.
[01:05:48.720 --> 01:05:54.300]  [SPEAKER_29]: The economy may be roaring back to life, but millions of American workers aren't feeling it yet.
[01:05:54.600 --> 01:05:59.540]  [SPEAKER_29]: While worker productivity grew last year by record numbers, wages remain stagnant.
[01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:08.220]  [SPEAKER_29]: Facing these numbers, President Clinton offered up some remedial measures to help out the American worker, but critics say what the president is proposing is not enough.
[01:06:08.700 --> 01:06:10.400]  [SPEAKER_29]: Pacifica's Don Rush has this report.
[01:06:11.640 --> 01:06:23.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Retraining topped the president's list of answers to the woes of the jobless American, and he wants to spend $3.4 billion to help victims of corporate layoffs and defense cuts learn new skills.
[01:06:23.520 --> 01:06:27.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Under his plan, he would turn the unemployment offices into reemployment centers.
[01:06:28.120 --> 01:06:33.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: In these centers, an American worker could apply for benefits, receive counseling, and sign up for job training.
[01:06:34.020 --> 01:06:34.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: President Clinton.
[01:06:35.240 --> 01:06:53.240]  [SPEAKER_32]: The Reemployment Act of 1994 builds on our greatest strengths, invest in our most important resource, our people, so that we can turn the 20th century safety net into a 21st century springboard to succeed and win in the global economy.
[01:06:53.420 --> 01:06:59.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: But even workers who have jobs find the real wages remain stagnant despite an uptick in the economy.
[01:06:59.860 --> 01:07:08.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: So the president unveiled a new effort to get federal employees to sign up for his expanded earned income tax credit aimed at low-income workers.
[01:07:08.240 --> 01:07:13.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: And during his announcement today, the president said he recognized wages were not up to snuff.
[01:07:14.060 --> 01:07:19.780]  [SPEAKER_32]: Millions and millions of working people now have had stagnant wages for virtually two decades.
[01:07:20.100 --> 01:07:23.880]  [SPEAKER_32]: That more and more people work hard and their wages don't keep up with inflation.
[01:07:24.500 --> 01:07:28.540]  [SPEAKER_32]: The principle behind what we are doing with the earned income tax credit is simple.
[01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.840]  [SPEAKER_32]: If you work for a living, you shouldn't be in poverty.
[01:07:32.860 --> 01:07:38.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: But critics charge the solutions the president proposes do not match the problems the economy faces.
[01:07:38.740 --> 01:07:48.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: For instance, Dean Baker with the Economic Policy Institute notes that the president ultimately envisions spending around $14 billion over the next five years on his retraining program.
[01:07:49.140 --> 01:07:55.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not going to be a serious expenditure in terms of the budget, or even less so in terms of the total economy.
[01:07:55.620 --> 01:08:08.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: To really have a training program that's likely to address the needs of all the workers who are going to be displaced or threatened with displacement, you'd be talking about tens of billions of dollars a year.
[01:08:08.420 --> 01:08:15.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Last year recorded the highest worker productivity numbers in years, and corporate profits rose by over 11%.
[01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:20.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Economists had expected wages to be rising by this time in the recovery, but they have not.
[01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:26.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: In manufacturing, where productivity rose by 7.5%, wages and benefits dropped by 0.2%.
[01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:30.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And many of the new jobs are showing up in the low-wage service sector.
[01:08:31.060 --> 01:08:36.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Carlos Bonilla with the Employment Policies Institute, which represents low-wage employers.
[01:08:36.340 --> 01:08:42.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Japan is seeing the same growth in service sector employment that the United States is seeing.
[01:08:42.280 --> 01:08:53.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not an American phenomena, it's a worldwide phenomena that reflects everything from technology to the cost of doing business in certain occupations.
[01:08:53.320 --> 01:09:02.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Economists suggest that the reasons for this phenomena include the declining power of labor unions, international competition, and the impact of automation on jobs.
[01:09:02.920 --> 01:09:05.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Doug Hinwood is with the Left Business Observer.
[01:09:05.440 --> 01:09:09.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: He believes that there are too few jobs for too many workers.
[01:09:09.500 --> 01:09:25.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think the long-term problem is that the economy needs fewer and fewer workers to produce equivalent amounts of stuff, and the workers it requires are being employed in generally lousier jobs, and I don't think any amount of training is going to change that.
[01:09:25.440 --> 01:09:30.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Most of the attention has been placed on the worker who loses his job in the manufacturing sector.
[01:09:30.380 --> 01:09:34.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: But Hinwood said the white-collar worker will soon follow his blue-collar counterpart.
[01:09:35.280 --> 01:09:50.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: For a lot of manufacturing firms, for example, they've really squeezed the production workforce as hard as they can, and they're really now beginning to see that the white-collar workforce is their next target of opportunity, and so we're seeing massive layoff announcements really targeted not at production workers,
[01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:52.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: but middle managers at this point.
[01:09:52.600 --> 01:10:00.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wood says the president would need to spend billions of dollars in government funds to create enough jobs to keep everyone employed.
[01:10:01.020 --> 01:10:03.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don Rush, Pacific Network News, Washington.
[01:10:04.420 --> 01:10:08.560]  [SPEAKER_29]: The tobacco industry has been taking some serious hits as of late.
[01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:15.080]  [SPEAKER_29]: The Food and Drug Administration is considering the regulation of cigarettes as a drug, and therefore regulated by the agency.
[01:10:15.340 --> 01:10:24.900]  [SPEAKER_29]: The Pentagon has banned smoking in all workplaces, and now the state of Maryland is on the road to prohibiting smoking in all public places, even bars and restaurants.
[01:10:25.200 --> 01:10:27.400]  [SPEAKER_29]: Today, the tobacco industry took to the streets.
[01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:28.660]  [SPEAKER_29]: Mark Beavis reports.
[01:10:34.330 --> 01:10:44.350]  [SPEAKER_26]: The tobacco industry brought some 16,000 to 20,000 workers, farmers, and smokers to Washington to protest the Clinton administration's proposal to triple the federal tax on cigarettes.
[01:10:44.630 --> 01:10:47.290]  [SPEAKER_26]: The purpose of the plan is to fund health care reform.
[01:10:47.470 --> 01:10:54.270]  [SPEAKER_26]: But the issue for these protesters, many of whom were paid a day's wages to be here, higher cigarette taxes will cost them their jobs.
[01:10:54.470 --> 01:11:05.630]  [SPEAKER_31]: They're trying to put taxes on the cigarettes industry, and we're up here to show our support for our jobs, for our companies, and for the working people.
[01:11:05.970 --> 01:11:07.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're here protesting.
[01:11:09.110 --> 01:11:10.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: High taxes.
[01:11:10.430 --> 01:11:13.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's very unreasonable to us to hold tobacco industry.
[01:11:13.750 --> 01:11:14.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: We don't think it's fair.
[01:11:15.450 --> 01:11:16.430]  [SPEAKER_28]: What's wrong with that?
[01:11:16.650 --> 01:11:19.110]  [SPEAKER_28]: If this passes, we're all going to lose our jobs.
[01:11:19.410 --> 01:11:19.710]  [SPEAKER_28]: Why?
[01:11:19.770 --> 01:11:21.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why would you lose your job because of the tax increase?
[01:11:21.390 --> 01:11:30.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if you put a big tax increase on every pack of cigarettes, like they say, at 75 to 90, 95 percent per pack, you know, that's got to be a low blow to the industry right there.
[01:11:30.990 --> 01:11:33.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure jobs will be cut and be lost because of that.
[01:11:34.250 --> 01:11:42.690]  [SPEAKER_26]: Government statistics show that if the federal tax on cigarettes was increased by the Clinton administration's proposed 75 cents, 11 billion dollars could be raised.
[01:11:42.690 --> 01:11:48.710]  [SPEAKER_26]: In addition, 3.7 million fewer people would take up smoking and 900,000 lives would be saved.
[01:11:48.810 --> 01:11:53.310]  [SPEAKER_26]: But some marchers still believe that all the talk about cigarettes and cancer is a big lie.
[01:11:53.550 --> 01:11:58.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: The media has been lied to and those lies are being disseminated back to the people of this country.
[01:11:59.110 --> 01:11:59.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: What's the lie?
[01:11:59.630 --> 01:12:02.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: The lie about secondhand smoke, for one thing.
[01:12:02.930 --> 01:12:09.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, there is absolutely no scientific evidence that secondhand smoke hurts anyone, any place.
[01:12:09.570 --> 01:12:11.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, and that's something that everybody believes.
[01:12:11.430 --> 01:12:12.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Even smokers are believing that.
[01:12:12.690 --> 01:12:13.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's just not true.
[01:12:13.750 --> 01:12:18.910]  [SPEAKER_26]: But the American Cancer Society charges the tobacco industry is lying, especially on this issue of jobs.
[01:12:19.210 --> 01:12:24.030]  [SPEAKER_26]: The industry says a 75-cent tax increase would cost 275,000 jobs.
[01:12:24.270 --> 01:12:29.190]  [SPEAKER_26]: But anti-smoking organizations say there are only 259,000 jobs in the entire industry.
[01:12:29.470 --> 01:12:31.690]  [SPEAKER_26]: John Bloom is with the American Cancer Society.
[01:12:31.910 --> 01:12:42.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: What the tobacco industry has done, though, is to generate absurdly exaggerated job loss estimates as a scare tactic to try and motivate its employees.
[01:12:43.290 --> 01:12:50.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: They pretend that there is no export market when, in fact, there's a huge export market that's unaffected by the tax.
[01:12:50.390 --> 01:12:56.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: These tobacco companies are making more cigarettes in the United States in the early 90s than they were in the early 80s, all because of exports.
[01:12:57.190 --> 01:13:11.450]  [SPEAKER_26]: In addition, a new study published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association argues that non-tobacco-producing states may even see an increase in jobs due to higher cigarette taxes because the money not spent on tobacco would be spent in other sectors of the state's economy,
[01:13:11.670 --> 01:13:12.830]  [SPEAKER_26]: therefore producing jobs.
[01:13:13.050 --> 01:13:16.510]  [SPEAKER_26]: Of course, an increase in tobacco taxes would be harmful on the health care industry.
[01:13:16.730 --> 01:13:20.610]  [SPEAKER_26]: Some 450,000 people are still dying each year from tobacco use.
[01:13:20.710 --> 01:13:25.990]  [SPEAKER_26]: But those death rates may soon start to decrease as it becomes harder and harder for people to light up.
[01:13:26.270 --> 01:13:31.350]  [SPEAKER_26]: In the past week or so, new obstacles have been imposed or proposed to limit where people can smoke.
[01:13:31.770 --> 01:13:50.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: A number of people have called the last 10 days, 10 days that shook the tobacco industry because not only do we have, for the first time ever, serious prospect of major tobacco tax increases, suddenly we have every aspect of our federal government taking action on tobacco and health issues.
[01:13:51.130 --> 01:13:53.330]  [SPEAKER_26]: The American Cancer Society's John Bloom.
[01:13:53.510 --> 01:14:01.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: We have major legislation moving through Capitol Hill that would ban smoking in public nationwide.
[01:14:01.940 --> 01:14:19.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: We have, for the first time ever, our Food and Drug Administration taking a serious look at simple regulation of tobacco products, simple oversight of what kinds of addictive and carcinogenic substances are being put into cigarettes.
[01:14:19.330 --> 01:14:30.010]  [SPEAKER_26]: The Pentagon has prohibited smoking in all workplaces, affecting 2.6 million personnel, and the state of Maryland is expected to join Vermont in banning smoking in all public places, even restaurants and bars.
[01:14:30.430 --> 01:14:34.650]  [SPEAKER_26]: Kathleen Shegg, with action on smoking or health, has been pushing for the Maryland law.
[01:14:35.110 --> 01:14:39.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: I think we've hit a critical mass, and I think people have suddenly seen it can be done.
[01:14:39.810 --> 01:14:44.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: I think there was a myth that the tobacco industry was all powerful, and you couldn't do it.
[01:14:45.030 --> 01:14:46.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: And now people have seen it can be done.
[01:14:46.870 --> 01:14:49.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: They've seen that there's overwhelming public support.
[01:14:49.970 --> 01:14:55.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: I mean, the tobacco industry tried to scare people off, saying you'd turn people away, it wouldn't work.
[01:14:55.370 --> 01:15:00.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: And there's now so much evidence of it working across the country that the next state knows they can do it.
[01:15:00.930 --> 01:15:05.890]  [SPEAKER_26]: Vermont has already gone smoke-free in public places, phasing in bars and restaurants by 1997.
[01:15:06.170 --> 01:15:09.250]  [SPEAKER_26]: The state of Utah will join the ranks in 1995.
[01:15:09.750 --> 01:15:12.190]  [SPEAKER_26]: Mark Beavis, Pacifica Network News, Washington.
[01:15:44.570 --> 01:15:50.310]  [SPEAKER_29]: Comedian Jackie Mason has again fanned the flames of racial hatred between the Jewish and African-American communities.
[01:15:50.610 --> 01:16:00.410]  [SPEAKER_29]: Last week on conservative Pat Buchanan's nationally syndicated radio program, Mason offended a number of African-American listeners when he issued a broad-brushed condemnation of blacks.
[01:16:00.410 --> 01:16:03.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're talking about the susceptibility to violent behavior.
[01:16:04.450 --> 01:16:08.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: The susceptibility happens to be more among blacks than among whites, a hundred times more.
[01:16:09.070 --> 01:16:14.950]  [SPEAKER_29]: Mason, who hosted his own national sitcom, has a history of making racially insensitive remarks under the guise of humor.
[01:16:15.190 --> 01:16:24.990]  [SPEAKER_29]: His sitcom ultimately bombed, but his comments on the Buchanan show were not intended to be funny, and indeed they struck a discordant note with Robert Williams of the NAACP.
[01:16:25.410 --> 01:16:32.650]  [SPEAKER_29]: Williams calls Mason's remarks despicable and indefensible, particularly given the current political tension between blacks and Jews.
[01:16:32.970 --> 01:16:41.710]  [SPEAKER_29]: Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan, who is black, was publicly condemned in recent weeks for anti-Semitic comments made by his aide, Khalid Abdul-Mohammed.
[01:16:41.710 --> 01:16:44.450]  [SPEAKER_29]: The outcry led to Mohammed's eventual demotion.
[01:16:44.790 --> 01:16:53.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have been beaten to death by the Jewish Civil Rights Organization to distant ourselves from Farrakhan.
[01:16:53.350 --> 01:16:57.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we have disavowed some of the statements he's made.
[01:16:57.850 --> 01:17:01.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Congress has gotten up and unanimously condemned Farrakhan.
[01:17:02.970 --> 01:17:05.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Congress has gotten up and And this is the second one.