Off The Hook - 1994-05-04

[00:01.390 --> 00:16.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you never turn your radio off and keep it tuned to WBAI 99.5 FM, you will hear every episode of Poison Darts at its regularly scheduled times, just before 7 a.m.
[00:16.730 --> 00:19.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: and just before 4 p.m., Monday through Thursday.
[00:20.390 --> 00:24.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Poison Darts, the amoeba that ate WBAI.
[00:24.570 --> 00:25.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's eat!
[00:38.590 --> 00:49.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let them talk with Paul DiRienzo, keeping an eye on the New World Order.
[00:50.250 --> 00:54.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: 1.30 Wednesday night, Thursday morning, following Robert Knight.
[00:54.650 --> 00:59.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let them talk on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:05.120 --> 01:13.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let them whisper, for they know not what's going on.
[01:20.590 --> 01:30.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll keep on loving you until the day I got...
[01:30.030 --> 01:33.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's just about 10 o'clock at night on Wednesday.
[01:33.770 --> 01:35.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Time once again for Off the Hook.
[01:41.130 --> 01:45.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:46.630 --> 01:51.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:52.130 --> 01:59.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: It couldn't get much worse, would Bumbin' Le Bump, but the best expect the worst.
[02:00.160 --> 02:03.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: I hope that's understood, Bumbin' Le Bump!
[02:54.850 --> 02:56.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: And good evening to one and all.
[02:56.630 --> 02:57.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:57.670 --> 02:58.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:58.950 --> 03:07.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we come your way every week at this time to bring you the latest in the news of technology, the internet, telephones, computers, whatnot.
[03:07.630 --> 03:10.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's been a fun, hectic week.
[03:10.210 --> 03:16.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's the week of the 2600 meetings around the world, which come every Friday here in New York.
[03:16.410 --> 03:26.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of course, you can meet a bunch of hackers by going down to the Citicore Center on Friday afternoon at 5 p.m.
[03:27.110 --> 03:28.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: And hanging out until around 8 p.m.
[03:28.990 --> 03:32.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you'll meet all kinds of strange and interesting people.
[03:32.070 --> 03:32.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you know what?
[03:33.170 --> 03:40.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's going to be something happening this summer that is going to increase the number of strange, interesting people in this city by a hundredfold.
[03:40.890 --> 03:41.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, um...
[03:41.610 --> 03:42.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: What's that noise?
[03:43.630 --> 03:44.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Wow, you hear that?
[03:44.570 --> 03:45.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's the sound of magic.
[03:47.050 --> 03:47.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[03:47.910 --> 03:51.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have something else that we're going to be doing today, which is going to be really interesting as well.
[03:51.110 --> 03:51.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: But we'll get to that.
[03:51.870 --> 03:53.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll get to that in just a moment.
[03:54.590 --> 04:01.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, we're going to take some phone calls a little later on as far as other particular news-worthy items go.
[04:01.730 --> 04:17.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I guess, before we get into an important announcement that we have to make, and before we get into a very important technical thing that we've never done before, but we will do here in just a few minutes, let's take a look at some of the news that's been going on over the past week.
[04:18.310 --> 04:22.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Sit tight and listen keenly while I play for you a brand new musical biscuit.
[04:57.570 --> 05:00.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, you're never going to guess, but I'm on the internet right now.
[05:01.390 --> 05:02.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is incredible.
[05:02.310 --> 05:05.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're on the internet at the same time that we're on the radio.
[05:06.870 --> 05:12.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: And if you have access to the internet, well, get access now, and maybe we can chat in a little while.
[05:13.930 --> 05:14.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Who knows?
[05:14.890 --> 05:20.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll be taking phone calls, but we'll also be on the internet, and we'll be able to talk to you real-time that way.
[05:20.690 --> 05:24.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm not quite sure how we're going to set this up yet, but we're going to do something neat.
[05:24.730 --> 05:33.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, let's take a look at some of the things that have been going on, courtesy of the Risks Digest, that wonderful electronic publication that you can get on the internet and on Usenet.
[05:33.710 --> 05:45.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: In case it sounds to those of you, those uninitiated masses out there, and I don't mean that in a bad way, most people are uninitiated because, well, the powers that be like you to be uninitiated, but we're here to change that.
[05:46.670 --> 05:49.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: The internet is not a commercial entity.
[05:49.330 --> 05:54.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: It might sound like we're advertising some sort of a commercial service here when we say, join us on the internet.
[05:54.850 --> 05:58.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's not like we're saying, join us on CompuServe, or join us on Genie, or Delphi.
[05:58.750 --> 06:02.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'd never say anything like that in the first place, because those are commercial entities.
[06:03.150 --> 06:06.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: And of course, there's probably other reasons why we wouldn't say that too, but we're not going to get into that.
[06:06.730 --> 06:13.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: The internet is this amazing meeting place of the minds that can take place over continents.
[06:13.570 --> 06:15.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: It can take place over time.
[06:15.230 --> 06:18.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: It can take place over space and energy and anything else you can think of.
[06:19.010 --> 06:21.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's where we are tonight.
[06:22.590 --> 06:23.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: As well as on the radio.
[06:23.750 --> 06:29.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you don't have access to the internet, don't fret, because tonight, in a way, you will.
[06:29.990 --> 06:30.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Pretty neat, huh?
[06:31.210 --> 06:35.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, let's take a look at some things that came over the Risk's Digest.
[06:35.110 --> 06:47.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: The California Department of Motor Vehicles has informed a flabbergasted legislative committee that it has spent $44.3 million on a computer modernization program that will never work.
[06:48.410 --> 06:54.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is unconscionable to me, said Assemblywoman Valerie Brown of Santa Rosa.
[06:55.530 --> 07:00.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: According to the San Diego Union, she spluttered this.
[07:00.270 --> 07:01.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: I've never heard of that word before.
[07:01.710 --> 07:04.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: I can't even explain this to people, she said.
[07:05.110 --> 07:10.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: The DMV director Frank Zolin muttered, I'm having a difficult time explaining it myself.
[07:12.590 --> 07:21.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: The department's position is that the software maker isn't responsible, the hardware maker isn't responsible, and the taxpayers are just going to eat the cost.
[07:23.230 --> 07:28.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: Transportation committee chairman Richard Katz said that.
[07:28.230 --> 07:35.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: The DMV started the project in 1988 and has been quietly spending millions of dollars a year on it with little oversight and even less success.
[07:37.350 --> 07:48.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Dan Folk, a Sacramento computer consultant who has been working with the DMV on the ill-fated venture, called it a combination of errors from the beginning.
[07:48.850 --> 07:50.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: How many times have we heard this?
[07:50.910 --> 08:07.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Falk said the plan to invisibly convert a circa 1965 database to a modern relational database using tandem cyclone mainframes was too giant a leap of technology and involved insurmountable incompatibilities between hardware platforms and program code.
[08:09.450 --> 08:10.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Painful, huh?
[08:17.320 --> 08:19.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: We've learned a lot from mistakes we made.
[08:22.400 --> 08:24.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's basically the gist of this story.
[08:27.020 --> 08:29.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, let's see what else is happening here.
[08:29.180 --> 08:33.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is kind of an interesting item concerning home alarms.
[08:34.310 --> 08:47.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: In the April 24th edition of the Sacramento Bee, great name for a newspaper, the Sacramento Bee, they published a story about a miniature camera that will revolutionize the Sacramento area security alarm industry.
[08:47.450 --> 08:55.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: In some important points of the article, a miniature camera on a chip about the size of a postage stamp is attached to an alarm system.
[08:55.280 --> 09:04.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: When the alarm is tripped, the camera sends four pictures back to the alarm monitoring service and presumably, the pictures are digitally encoded and sent through some sort of a modem.
[09:04.580 --> 09:08.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the first picture arrives 20 seconds after the alarm is tripped.
[09:09.550 --> 09:14.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Police are particularly excited about this because it will let them use the pictures to detect false alarms.
[09:15.190 --> 09:16.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: And whatnot.
[09:17.280 --> 09:23.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: The system is intended to be used in a wide variety of businesses and also residences.
[09:24.140 --> 09:28.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: The photographs will be usable as evidence in court against robbers and burglars.
[09:30.260 --> 09:38.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: The camera is so small that it can be easily hidden anywhere the size of a postage stamp.
[09:39.930 --> 09:41.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: It is also inexpensive.
[09:41.860 --> 09:44.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: One-third to one-half the cost of a closed-circuit video camera.
[09:45.330 --> 09:46.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: How can anybody resist?
[09:49.210 --> 09:54.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: The pictures come out pretty clear according to a police communications supervisor.
[09:55.720 --> 10:04.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, according to the person that submitted this to the Risk Digest someone by the name of Dan Zerkel he has some concerns over this.
[10:05.720 --> 10:09.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: He says, It only takes four pictures which are presumably freeze frames.
[10:10.140 --> 10:14.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: A burglar may trip the alarm yet not be photographed perhaps going by the camera between pictures.
[10:15.580 --> 10:20.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: The alarm agency or police may see that the pictures don't show anything and thus believe it's a false alarm.
[10:21.810 --> 10:25.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: They may then decline to respond or may respond inappropriately.
[10:26.400 --> 10:30.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is a perfect spy device and will be easily available at a price less than a simple video camera.
[10:31.330 --> 10:35.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: The potential abuses of such a device are many but employee monitoring is one.
[10:36.220 --> 10:40.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Your boss could point one at your work area to watch you and you'll never know.
[10:41.790 --> 10:45.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: A hidden security camera is really a spy camera equivalent to an audio bug.
[10:46.220 --> 10:50.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: In fact, the article mentions that it could be used against internal thefts.
[10:52.330 --> 10:53.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, they have those in the post office.
[10:54.210 --> 11:05.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you look in the back room you'll see little black windows and that's where they put cameras to watch all the postal employees to make sure they don't take anything throughout the course of an entire day.
[11:05.620 --> 11:10.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: How would you like to have every movement you make monitored, watched, analyzed, scrutinized?
[11:11.840 --> 11:13.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's happening already.
[11:13.820 --> 11:20.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: If someone says the pictures are pretty clear that means that they aren't entirely clear.
[11:23.290 --> 11:35.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh, if police trust pictures too much well, the potential is there for police to misidentify a suspect based on a picture but firmly believe that they are right.
[11:35.820 --> 11:45.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is especially likely if the pictures are monochrome as the first picture arrives in 20 seconds they are certainly low resolution consider connection time for modems and various things like that.
[11:46.980 --> 11:52.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: a camera in my residence what if it starts sending pictures back to the alarm company at random?
[11:52.520 --> 11:57.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: What if some voyeur at a alarm company figures out how to get pictures whenever he wants?
[11:58.980 --> 12:03.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Most people who have these alarm systems will not know how they work so they won't be aware of these risks.
[12:08.210 --> 12:11.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, it's, uh, kind of scary some of the things that are happening out there.
[12:11.770 --> 12:15.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: Cameras are probably one of the scariest things.
[12:16.550 --> 12:20.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, hey, we already have a message from somebody on, uh, on a program called IRC.
[12:20.750 --> 12:23.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: If any of you are out there on the internet join IRC now.
[12:24.110 --> 12:27.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, this person says I am listening to your show as we chat.
[12:27.530 --> 12:28.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, how nice.
[12:28.590 --> 12:32.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: What we're going to do we're going to make a channel on IRC.
[12:32.630 --> 12:33.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to call it WBAI.
[12:34.890 --> 12:36.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, I've just created it now.
[12:36.630 --> 12:38.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm, um, on that channel.
[12:39.310 --> 12:42.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: And someone has already joined the channel from, uh, City University of New York.
[12:43.510 --> 12:44.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, uh, something.
[12:45.010 --> 12:45.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: hi, Euron.
[12:45.850 --> 12:47.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: I guess that's how you pronounce your name.
[12:47.350 --> 12:49.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: And Gunfury has joined us as well.
[12:49.810 --> 12:55.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, I'm going to invite a bunch of people now from the, um, from the hacking channel to join us.
[12:56.850 --> 12:58.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, Gunfury says hi.
[12:58.450 --> 12:59.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Euron says hi.
[13:00.050 --> 13:03.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, let's go over to, um, the hack channel here.
[13:06.380 --> 13:08.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's a lot of people on the hack channel.
[13:09.400 --> 13:20.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, we're going to, uh, tell them, come over to the WBAI channel and be on the radio live.
[13:23.140 --> 13:25.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, that's been transmitted to everybody on the hack channel.
[13:26.100 --> 13:28.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: And now, we're going back to the WBAI channel.
[13:28.880 --> 13:31.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to talk exclusively over there.
[13:34.820 --> 13:37.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, let's see who we have on the WBAI channel.
[13:39.620 --> 13:41.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, we have, uh, gray area.
[13:42.140 --> 13:50.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have Mavario Columbo, I believe is how you pronounce that, from, um, it's hard to say where these people are from exactly.
[13:51.000 --> 13:55.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Collision, Shift Lock, Gunfury, Euron, and of course, Emmanuel.
[13:57.060 --> 13:57.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[13:58.100 --> 14:01.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, okay people, what, uh, what's on your minds?
[14:01.720 --> 14:03.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Who wants to lead the discussion here on the internet?
[14:04.600 --> 14:05.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Anybody?
[14:05.800 --> 14:11.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: I would like to say that without Clipper, Bill Clinton would have much better posture, according to Pug Guy.
[14:11.960 --> 14:13.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: Gauss 3 says, Hi all.
[14:13.720 --> 14:15.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, we say hi right back.
[14:16.420 --> 14:17.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Euron says, Hello.
[14:18.580 --> 14:28.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, now this will really be fun when we get DAI listeners involved and we can talk back and forth between the net and between, uh, between people on the, uh, on the radio.
[14:30.000 --> 14:33.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Pug Guy continuing with his, uh, Clinton observations.
[14:33.580 --> 14:35.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Informations here would be almost four inches taller, I imagine.
[14:38.000 --> 14:39.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Digital Freedom Now from Collision.
[14:41.360 --> 14:42.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: I, I kind of like the beep.
[14:43.480 --> 14:44.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of course, no one's beeped yet.
[14:45.540 --> 14:46.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we're going to send the beep?
[14:47.280 --> 14:48.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, what station is this on?
[14:48.800 --> 14:51.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're, we're, we're being asked on there, so I'm going to tell people.
[14:51.320 --> 14:51.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, there's a beep.
[14:51.840 --> 14:52.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's not so bad.
[14:53.540 --> 15:02.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: The radio station is WBAI 99.5 FM in New York City.
[15:03.900 --> 15:05.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is going all throughout the world.
[15:06.240 --> 15:06.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Why?
[15:07.440 --> 15:11.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you know, to me, it doesn't really seem that amazing because we've been doing this so many times.
[15:12.820 --> 15:23.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: 99.5 FM, everyone is saying 99.5 FM, they all know about this, but I mean, I've been on IRC so many times, I've been on the net so many times, but to the vast majority of people, they don't know what it's all about.
[15:26.100 --> 15:30.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's important, that's important to, you want me to say hi to Washington Heights?
[15:30.820 --> 15:32.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, I'm saying hi to Washington Heights.
[15:32.420 --> 15:32.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hi up there.
[15:36.060 --> 15:37.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, don't say those words.
[15:37.820 --> 15:41.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, you see, we can say whatever words we want on the internet, but we can't say those words over the radio, of course not.
[15:44.300 --> 15:46.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: How are you transmitting this with audio?
[15:46.640 --> 15:50.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, we're not using Homer, that's a voice program, we're simply reading it over the air.
[15:51.260 --> 15:53.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's my voice, it's not a program.
[15:54.880 --> 15:58.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, someone's saying the nets are going down, I don't know if they are going down at all.
[15:59.560 --> 16:01.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: I am in Queens, according to Pinto.
[16:02.000 --> 16:02.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hello, Pinto in Queens.
[16:03.980 --> 16:06.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is from Junior Rincon.
[16:06.840 --> 16:08.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Mention my name, please, Emmanuel.
[16:08.440 --> 16:10.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, you got your wish there.
[16:13.940 --> 16:16.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is from George Francis McLean.
[16:16.920 --> 16:17.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is it really?
[16:17.880 --> 16:19.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or is it a fake?
[16:21.740 --> 16:22.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[16:23.000 --> 16:27.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to come back to this and have all kinds of fun things going on.
[16:29.420 --> 16:34.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we have a special announcement coming up, so stay with us.
[16:34.220 --> 16:36.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll be back in just a couple of minutes.
[16:57.630 --> 17:03.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm the governor, Pete Wilson, you know, the baddest governor to ever grab a mic and go boom.
[17:03.330 --> 17:05.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Give me a budget, watch me hack it.
[17:05.290 --> 17:07.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Give me a beat and I'll show you how to jack it.
[17:23.390 --> 17:25.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a pocketbook to working families.
[17:25.810 --> 17:27.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Increased tuition at the university.
[17:28.310 --> 17:30.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: One day, I'll command all of you.
[17:30.770 --> 17:33.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Even the kids will go and pray to me in school.
[17:33.350 --> 17:35.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Soon, I'm going to be the president.
[17:35.810 --> 17:38.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: You might remember the last one in this state sent.
[17:39.390 --> 17:40.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: California, Uber Alice.
[17:46.520 --> 17:48.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: California, Uber Alice.
[17:58.900 --> 18:01.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm surprised to know the great communicator.
[18:01.760 --> 18:04.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: I want to be known as the great incarcerator.
[18:04.380 --> 18:08.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll blow environmentalists away and I'll be the furor someday.
[18:09.340 --> 18:14.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: I keep cutting public education even though we rank 45th in the nation.
[18:14.280 --> 18:16.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've got a plan for the minorities.
[18:16.920 --> 18:20.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Send them to the California youth authority from前
[18:25.660 --> 18:29.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: for the master race and always wear a happy face.
[18:29.540 --> 18:32.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Close your eyes it can't happen here.
[18:32.740 --> 18:34.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Big brother in his squad cause coming near.
[18:35.260 --> 18:39.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come enjoy the surf and sun and keep California number one.
[18:40.360 --> 18:50.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: California Uber Alice California Uber Alice California Uber Alice California Uber Alice
[19:20.640 --> 19:28.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now it's 1991, not knocking your front, it's a sway-down secret police.
[19:28.360 --> 19:30.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: They come to your house for your long-haired niece.
[19:31.560 --> 19:35.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gonna take her off to a camp, cause she's been accused of going hemp.
[19:36.500 --> 19:36.640]  The
[19:41.070 --> 19:43.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: power, gonna die in malafion gas.
[19:43.970 --> 19:46.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: The surface day has already been hatched.
[19:46.990 --> 19:51.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: People starving, living in the streets, because they try to mess with me, President Pease.
[19:51.430 --> 19:52.790]  California,
[20:01.730 --> 20:02.110]  Alice!
[20:02.490 --> 20:02.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: California!
[20:03.490 --> 20:04.450]  Uber Alice!
[20:04.830 --> 20:07.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: California, Uber Alice!
[20:07.550 --> 20:07.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: California!
[20:08.610 --> 20:09.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uber Alice!
[20:10.070 --> 20:10.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: California!
[20:11.130 --> 20:11.130]  Uber Alice!
[20:11.130 --> 20:12.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: California, Uber Alice!
[20:48.590 --> 20:51.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: And this is a group with one of the best names I've ever heard.
[20:52.370 --> 20:56.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Disposable Heroes of Hip-Hop for a C.
[20:56.710 --> 20:57.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, hip-hop for C.
[20:58.590 --> 21:01.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Doing a Dead Kennedys cover.
[21:02.070 --> 21:03.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I bet you never thought you'd hear that.
[21:03.650 --> 21:04.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: A Dead Kennedys cover.
[21:05.730 --> 21:06.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: California Uberalis.
[21:08.030 --> 21:09.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: From Alternative Tentacles.
[21:10.950 --> 21:11.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: What fun.
[21:12.430 --> 21:16.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hey, speaking of fun, speaking of dangers to our individual liberty.
[21:16.610 --> 21:21.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, I went out this week and I bought a six-pack of beer.
[21:21.910 --> 21:22.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[21:22.590 --> 21:23.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I don't do that very often.
[21:24.130 --> 21:25.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's kind of a big event when I do.
[21:25.130 --> 21:28.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, you know, I went out and did this at a local supermarket.
[21:29.290 --> 21:31.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Not really thinking anything of it.
[21:31.450 --> 21:42.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, apparently, since I've done this last, they've installed some sort of a computer system that won't allow the sale to go through until they check to make sure the person is 21 or above.
[21:42.610 --> 21:44.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, I always consider it a compliment to get proof.
[21:44.710 --> 21:46.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: But this is something that doesn't...
[21:46.230 --> 21:49.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: The human intellect does not enter into this at all.
[21:49.170 --> 21:50.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's something they have to do.
[21:50.750 --> 21:52.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: And so the person said, can you prove you're 21?
[21:52.610 --> 21:53.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I said, yeah, sure.
[21:53.870 --> 21:55.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Ask me a question about the 60s or something.
[21:56.470 --> 21:57.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: But that wasn't good enough.
[21:57.570 --> 21:58.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: They wanted to see my license.
[21:59.070 --> 22:00.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: So I gave them my license.
[22:00.450 --> 22:03.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: I figured they'd just look at the license and see that I was over 21 and put it back.
[22:04.070 --> 22:04.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: But no, you know what they did?
[22:05.210 --> 22:08.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: They took my license and they entered numbers from it.
[22:08.270 --> 22:10.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: They entered numbers from my license into their computer.
[22:10.310 --> 22:15.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: So somewhere, there is a record of me buying beer in this particular supermarket's computer.
[22:15.490 --> 22:17.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: And who knows what other computers that computer talks to.
[22:17.990 --> 22:21.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: And this is what they do for everybody that buys alcohol now.
[22:21.550 --> 22:24.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: In that particular area, maybe in a lot of areas now.
[22:24.930 --> 22:26.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: They enter your driver's license number.
[22:27.570 --> 22:28.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's scary.
[22:28.610 --> 22:30.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, I don't want people to know if I'm drinking Pepsi.
[22:30.810 --> 22:31.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't want people to know anything.
[22:33.010 --> 22:34.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just want to be left alone.
[22:34.310 --> 22:36.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: I want to be, you know, private.
[22:36.630 --> 22:37.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Private, solitary citizen.
[22:37.950 --> 22:39.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's all we ever hope for.
[22:41.050 --> 22:45.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, anyway, that's what's happening out there in the scary world.
[22:46.910 --> 22:50.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we are here in the friendly world, friendly world of WBAI.
[22:51.590 --> 22:57.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, of course, next week, as you know, begins our pledge week, or pledge three weeks, actually.
[22:58.330 --> 23:01.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: The WBAI Spring Marathon, where we ask for your support.
[23:01.210 --> 23:02.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: So please, be around next week.
[23:02.410 --> 23:04.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll have a special two-hour show from 10 to 12.
[23:05.270 --> 23:11.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we'll be hoping that people out there will help us out so we can continue doing amazing things like we're doing right now.
[23:11.330 --> 23:11.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[23:11.870 --> 23:12.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're on the Internet.
[23:12.650 --> 23:16.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to be taking some phone calls in just a couple of minutes at 212-279-3400.
[23:17.270 --> 23:21.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'd like to, first of all, speak to the people on the net right now.
[23:21.030 --> 23:25.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have 24 people that are on our particular WBAI channel.
[23:25.390 --> 23:31.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you have access to the Internet and you can run a program called IRC on the Internet, join the WBAI channel.
[23:31.730 --> 23:38.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: You type IRC at your regular prompt, wherever that might be, and then you type slash join, pound sign, WBAI.
[23:39.050 --> 23:41.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you've used IRC, you're probably very familiar with that.
[23:41.450 --> 23:45.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: We created the WBAI channel simply by joining it first.
[23:45.690 --> 23:53.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that creates the channel, and people all across the planet can now join that particular channel.
[23:53.890 --> 23:54.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's amazing.
[23:54.850 --> 24:00.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, it's just so incredibly simple, but it's so incredibly amazing at the same time.
[24:00.930 --> 24:08.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, what we're going to do now, I'm going to ask the people on the Internet right now, I'm going to address them both on the radio and on the net.
[24:09.430 --> 24:18.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: People on IRC, tell us where you are located now.
[24:19.470 --> 24:21.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: And why didn't that go over?
[24:21.690 --> 24:24.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, apparently we have some kind of a net lag.
[24:24.390 --> 24:24.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is that what we have?
[24:26.590 --> 24:28.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we have technical problems.
[24:28.550 --> 24:29.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's another thing that we always have.
[24:30.690 --> 24:32.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is it a lag of some sort?
[24:34.170 --> 24:34.610]  [SPEAKER_26]: Reboot.
[24:35.950 --> 24:37.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: The system froze on us?
[24:37.870 --> 24:38.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[24:38.810 --> 24:41.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to have our technical people work on this.
[24:42.050 --> 24:43.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let us know when we're back online.
[24:43.810 --> 24:47.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, we're going to go to the telephones then.
[24:48.570 --> 24:49.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: 212-279-3400.
[24:50.730 --> 24:52.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: This kind of thing happens all the time.
[24:53.150 --> 24:53.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Computers crash.
[24:54.250 --> 24:55.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Phone lines go dead.
[24:57.050 --> 24:58.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: Unexplainable things happen.
[24:59.190 --> 25:00.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I know, we have to call back.
[25:00.350 --> 25:01.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, so you want to dial tone now?
[25:02.350 --> 25:02.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[25:02.950 --> 25:04.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: You signal me when you want to dial tone.
[25:06.590 --> 25:10.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, actually, I don't know if we can take phone calls then with that thing on.
[25:10.650 --> 25:11.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, we can't.
[25:11.390 --> 25:12.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: We can't take phone calls with that...
[25:12.850 --> 25:14.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Can we do it with the acoustic thing?
[25:15.730 --> 25:16.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can we do the acoustic?
[25:16.810 --> 25:19.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, do it with the acoustic thing and use this line over there.
[25:19.770 --> 25:21.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we have to toggle some things.
[25:21.550 --> 25:23.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: But we will be back online in just a couple of minutes.
[25:23.230 --> 25:27.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we have that special announcement, which we will make simultaneously online and on the air.
[25:27.450 --> 25:30.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's go to the telephones.
[25:31.450 --> 25:35.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: At 212-279-3400.
[25:36.290 --> 25:36.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[25:37.090 --> 25:37.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the radio.
[25:38.010 --> 25:39.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you sound like a dial tone.
[25:42.400 --> 25:43.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Damn good imitation.
[25:43.520 --> 25:43.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[25:43.900 --> 25:44.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the radio.
[25:44.700 --> 25:45.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, Manuel.
[25:45.140 --> 25:46.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't know you drank beer.
[25:46.500 --> 25:47.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: You sound like a dial tone, too.
[25:48.140 --> 25:49.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm just kidding.
[25:50.240 --> 25:50.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway.
[25:50.900 --> 25:52.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: How do you always manage to be first?
[25:52.320 --> 25:53.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't understand it.
[25:53.920 --> 25:54.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: They time out.
[25:55.180 --> 25:56.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: The phones hang up.
[25:57.220 --> 25:58.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: You somehow manage to be first.
[25:59.140 --> 25:59.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[26:00.120 --> 26:01.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you using a laptop?
[26:02.240 --> 26:03.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, we're not using a mainframe.
[26:03.840 --> 26:04.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, we're using a laptop.
[26:05.280 --> 26:08.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, but you have to call into a modem to get onto the Internet, right?
[26:08.200 --> 26:08.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right, yes.
[26:08.880 --> 26:09.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: You have to call into a modem.
[26:09.900 --> 26:11.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: You call a special phone number.
[26:11.240 --> 26:13.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you hook your telephone up through your computer.
[26:13.380 --> 26:16.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it all speaks to the Internet.
[26:16.600 --> 26:17.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right, but you have to have Internet access.
[26:18.000 --> 26:19.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to call a number that gives you Internet access.
[26:19.820 --> 26:22.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right, but getting Internet access is easier and easier.
[26:22.760 --> 26:25.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we're going to help people get on the Net.
[26:25.440 --> 26:26.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's what I'd like to do.
[26:26.800 --> 26:28.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: All I have is an email address.
[26:28.480 --> 26:30.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't get onto IRC or anything like that.
[26:30.380 --> 26:32.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Otherwise, I'd be on that IRC thing.
[26:32.880 --> 26:33.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Day and night, I'll bet.
[26:34.400 --> 26:34.820]  Of course.
[26:36.520 --> 26:38.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, the IRC people, I'm sure, are hearing this.
[26:38.980 --> 26:41.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: And they know their days of relative freedom are over.
[26:41.860 --> 26:42.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: How do they hear it?
[26:42.620 --> 26:43.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: What do you mean they're hearing it?
[26:43.660 --> 26:48.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, some people are in New York, and they have access to the Net, and they're on IRC, and listening at the same time.
[26:48.420 --> 26:49.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: One thing I want to know.
[26:49.280 --> 26:51.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Does ANI...
[26:53.040 --> 26:54.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: You want to try that again?
[26:55.220 --> 26:57.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's take a deep breath and start over.
[26:57.140 --> 26:57.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[26:57.620 --> 26:57.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[26:58.040 --> 27:02.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: The question is, is ANI restricted to 800 and 900 numbers?
[27:02.520 --> 27:04.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can seven-digit local numbers have ANI?
[27:05.180 --> 27:09.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: ANI is something that can be transmitted on any long-distance call.
[27:09.280 --> 27:15.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: In fact, that's how a lot of caller ID signals are being received, because it starts off as ANI.
[27:15.780 --> 27:17.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, yeah, I mean, that is something.
[27:17.160 --> 27:21.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: When you call your operator, they are getting an ANI readout or an ANI failure.
[27:22.260 --> 27:23.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: They don't have ANI.
[27:23.820 --> 27:24.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry?
[27:24.280 --> 27:27.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: When you call a 950 number, they don't have ANI.
[27:27.440 --> 27:28.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, those are 950 numbers.
[27:28.780 --> 27:29.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: They're different.
[27:29.460 --> 27:30.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, not every number does.
[27:31.280 --> 27:34.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's mostly used by long-distance companies, but let's face it.
[27:35.000 --> 27:42.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're approaching the day where all this technology is going to be integrated, local and long-distance and international and everything.
[27:42.480 --> 27:48.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: When I used the 950 number, they asked me what number I'm calling from, and I gave them a fake number, and then that number went on the bill.
[27:49.320 --> 27:56.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: 950s are a good way to make anonymous calls still, but there's rapidly less and less of those kinds of calls that are able to be made.
[27:57.480 --> 27:59.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, that's something to be aware of.
[27:59.880 --> 28:07.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I remember, I just was using the call card in the, by the way, the Port Authority's call cards, TCG telephones.
[28:07.800 --> 28:11.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're in LaGuardia Airport, the Royal Trade Center, and the Port Authority bus terminal.
[28:11.820 --> 28:15.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: They will trip down to a dial tone, and you can dial numbers from it.
[28:15.640 --> 28:20.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: You see, their trunk, they're on like a PBX, like a DID PBX, all those call cards are connected to.
[28:20.520 --> 28:20.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[28:20.760 --> 28:27.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you can, they'll trip down to a regular dial tone after you connect to something, which will be the dial tone of the trunk line.
[28:27.420 --> 28:33.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you can make free phone, because I called 900 numbers, and 970 numbers, and long distance, and international.
[28:33.800 --> 28:34.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[28:34.920 --> 28:36.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, that's great.
[28:36.440 --> 28:37.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, I heard touch tones there.
[28:37.980 --> 28:38.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is that actually going through?
[28:38.780 --> 28:39.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: That wasn't me.
[28:39.540 --> 28:40.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, I know it wasn't you.
[28:40.340 --> 28:42.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're trying to get back on the net here.
[28:42.700 --> 28:42.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh.
[28:42.960 --> 28:44.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, if you want, we can try it the old way.
[28:46.400 --> 28:47.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's busy?
[28:47.500 --> 28:47.820]  Okay.
[28:48.360 --> 28:49.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're hitting a busy signal as well.
[28:49.900 --> 28:50.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I would use that one over there.
[28:51.160 --> 28:52.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we're going to move on to another phone call.
[28:53.420 --> 28:53.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay?
[28:53.940 --> 28:54.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[28:54.360 --> 28:55.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, thanks for calling.
[28:55.160 --> 28:56.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, did you want us to...
[28:57.300 --> 28:57.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: No.
[28:57.860 --> 28:58.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks anyway, though.
[29:00.060 --> 29:02.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm not quite sure what he was going to ask, but probably not.
[29:03.380 --> 29:03.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[29:03.980 --> 29:04.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the radio.
[29:05.360 --> 29:05.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello.
[29:05.960 --> 29:06.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: How you doing?
[29:06.680 --> 29:07.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, great.
[29:07.940 --> 29:11.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was wondering, um, have you heard anything about Linux?
[29:11.380 --> 29:12.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a Unix clone.
[29:13.240 --> 29:14.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, Linux is a...
[29:14.840 --> 29:34.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: or Linux, depending on who you speak to, is a public access Unix system that you can download and run on, I believe, a 386, a 486, any kind of machine you might have in your home, and become a system administrator, learn all about Unix, tie yourself into the internet.
[29:35.400 --> 29:41.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: It can get very, very complicated, but it can also be very simple, depending on your abilities, depending on what it is you want to do.
[29:41.860 --> 29:43.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's something I definitely recommend looking into.
[29:43.920 --> 29:45.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: Download it and play with it.
[29:45.820 --> 29:47.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but I've been trying to set it up.
[29:47.980 --> 29:49.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've been trying to set up my...
[29:49.560 --> 29:58.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've actually switched from a DOS-based BVS to something built around Unix, and I've been trying to Linux out.
[29:58.820 --> 30:02.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's been actually difficult going, but it's been interesting, too.
[30:02.520 --> 30:04.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's been a real learning experience.
[30:04.820 --> 30:07.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've been trying to get my system booked up to the internet.
[30:08.420 --> 30:18.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I guess the biggest thing is for a DOS user to think of things in a multi-user way, you know?
[30:19.200 --> 30:19.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[30:19.720 --> 30:22.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I mean, that's the way of the future.
[30:23.100 --> 30:23.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's the way of the future.
[30:25.000 --> 30:28.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just glad to see you actually heard of it, you know?
[30:28.620 --> 30:34.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[30:35.340 --> 30:38.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's a good thing, because there's a lot of support from the hacker community.
[30:38.700 --> 30:41.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's a lot of people out there that will answer your questions if you have any problems.
[30:42.520 --> 30:43.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I love your show.
[30:43.560 --> 30:44.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks a lot.
[30:44.080 --> 30:44.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[30:45.900 --> 30:47.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we're having trouble here getting through again, aren't we?
[30:48.100 --> 30:49.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: We can try the old system.
[30:49.560 --> 30:51.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: You want to go back to that, since we know that works?
[30:51.980 --> 30:52.300]  Okay.
[30:52.320 --> 30:53.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we're troubleshooting here.
[30:53.820 --> 30:55.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll be back on the net in just a little while.
[30:55.540 --> 30:56.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: No need to fret.
[30:56.480 --> 30:58.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have a half hour left, and we will be back on.
[30:58.760 --> 30:59.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know what happened.
[30:59.760 --> 31:01.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: We just somehow froze up.
[31:01.140 --> 31:02.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: The computer froze.
[31:02.620 --> 31:05.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, let's throw that thing out the window next time we get near one.
[31:06.040 --> 31:06.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[31:06.440 --> 31:07.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the radio.
[31:08.040 --> 31:08.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[31:08.500 --> 31:08.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[31:08.920 --> 31:09.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to get on the air.
[31:09.900 --> 31:10.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, you're on the air.
[31:11.200 --> 31:11.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, I'm on the air?
[31:12.340 --> 31:13.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air and on the radio.
[31:14.600 --> 31:15.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: But you're not on the net.
[31:15.820 --> 31:16.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Not yet.
[31:16.940 --> 31:17.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I'm not on the net.
[31:18.100 --> 31:19.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what I'm calling to ask about.
[31:19.500 --> 31:19.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[31:20.040 --> 31:23.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I have a computer, but I'm new at this.
[31:23.900 --> 31:27.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I hear these terms, internet and the hacking.
[31:27.420 --> 31:28.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm trying to find out.
[31:28.480 --> 31:30.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: How can I find out more information about this?
[31:31.400 --> 31:34.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, probably the best way to find out more information is to keep listening.
[31:34.180 --> 31:39.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because we're going to provide people with ways of getting onto the net over the next few weeks.
[31:39.600 --> 31:41.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll be talking about that in depth.
[31:42.620 --> 31:44.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: And did you say you did have a computer or you don't?
[31:44.780 --> 31:45.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have a computer.
[31:45.500 --> 31:45.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[31:45.700 --> 31:46.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: What kind of computer do you have?
[31:47.320 --> 31:48.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a 386, a Dell.
[31:49.040 --> 31:49.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you have a modem?
[31:50.020 --> 31:52.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have a modem, but I don't have a phone line hooked up to it.
[31:52.540 --> 31:52.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[31:53.120 --> 31:54.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, that's relatively simple.
[31:54.300 --> 31:55.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Obviously, you have a phone line.
[31:55.340 --> 32:00.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, hooking the phone line up to the modem is as simple as plugging in the actual modular cord.
[32:00.900 --> 32:04.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then plugging the modem into the computer and simply dialing from there.
[32:04.560 --> 32:07.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: And your computer basically uses the phone instead of you.
[32:07.580 --> 32:07.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[32:08.120 --> 32:10.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then you connect to an internet provider of sorts.
[32:10.940 --> 32:17.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: From there, you hop onto the net and you can take part in things like IRC, internet mail, news groups of various sorts.
[32:18.640 --> 32:19.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Things like that.
[32:20.680 --> 32:22.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that something I have to pay for?
[32:22.200 --> 32:22.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Internet?
[32:22.940 --> 32:24.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: There are charges, yes.
[32:24.760 --> 32:29.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: But the charges are relatively low compared to some of the commercial services.
[32:29.540 --> 32:29.860]  Oh.
[32:30.660 --> 32:32.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, we'll help people get on.
[32:32.560 --> 32:35.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's one of our projects that we're working on over the next few months.
[32:35.640 --> 32:35.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[32:35.920 --> 32:36.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I'll keep listening.
[32:36.680 --> 32:37.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Keep listening.
[32:37.240 --> 32:37.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Keep listening.
[32:37.760 --> 32:40.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: And also listen to the personal computer show, which is on before this one.
[32:40.560 --> 32:40.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[32:41.060 --> 32:42.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have listened to that before, too.
[32:42.160 --> 32:43.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I enjoy your show.
[32:43.520 --> 32:43.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[32:43.860 --> 32:44.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for calling.
[32:44.480 --> 32:44.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[32:44.900 --> 32:45.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[32:45.660 --> 32:47.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, I think we should go back to the old system.
[32:47.740 --> 32:48.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[32:48.280 --> 32:48.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's what we're going to do.
[32:49.020 --> 32:49.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to...
[32:49.600 --> 32:53.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't think this will affect the callers.
[32:53.960 --> 32:54.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's hope not, anyway.
[32:55.240 --> 32:56.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, I'll give you a dial tone.
[32:59.020 --> 33:00.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we just have to unplug this phone here.
[33:02.120 --> 33:02.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[33:02.980 --> 33:03.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[33:03.340 --> 33:04.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: You guys have a dial tone.
[33:05.520 --> 33:07.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think that won't affect...
[33:08.800 --> 33:10.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't think it will affect what's going on.
[33:11.640 --> 33:12.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: It might, though.
[33:14.920 --> 33:15.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[33:15.340 --> 33:16.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm going to take a call here.
[33:16.180 --> 33:16.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[33:16.980 --> 33:17.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[33:18.400 --> 33:18.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hello?
[33:20.520 --> 33:20.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[33:20.920 --> 33:21.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Apparently, it does affect things.
[33:22.000 --> 33:22.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, we can't do it that way.
[33:24.400 --> 33:25.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: We can't do it that way, unfortunately.
[33:25.840 --> 33:28.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, we're going to have to figure out a way to route that phone.
[33:29.240 --> 33:30.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, you guys keep trying.
[33:30.160 --> 33:31.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Why don't you work in the back there?
[33:31.440 --> 33:33.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, you're not so underfoot here.
[33:33.940 --> 33:34.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you very much.
[33:35.280 --> 33:36.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I need this over here.
[33:36.740 --> 33:37.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's go back to the phones.
[33:37.680 --> 33:37.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[33:37.980 --> 33:38.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[33:40.140 --> 33:40.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hmm.
[33:42.320 --> 33:43.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, let's get rid of that.
[33:43.760 --> 33:44.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[33:44.160 --> 33:44.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[33:45.160 --> 33:45.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello?
[33:45.540 --> 33:46.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, go ahead.
[33:46.680 --> 33:47.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have a question.
[33:47.800 --> 33:48.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[33:48.400 --> 33:50.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was arrested for PBX-ing.
[33:50.680 --> 33:56.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: PBX-ing, meaning using a company's phone system to make free phone calls.
[33:56.260 --> 33:56.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is that the definition?
[33:57.320 --> 33:57.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[33:57.820 --> 33:58.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[33:58.640 --> 34:00.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: A friend of mine is carding.
[34:01.140 --> 34:01.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Carding.
[34:01.680 --> 34:05.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: That is, uh, stealing, uh, merchandise using credit card numbers.
[34:05.480 --> 34:05.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no.
[34:05.880 --> 34:06.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Phone, phone cards.
[34:06.900 --> 34:07.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Phone cards.
[34:07.820 --> 34:10.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: That is, making telephone calls with calling card numbers.
[34:11.020 --> 34:11.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[34:11.680 --> 34:14.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And are you telling me that it's safe?
[34:14.140 --> 34:14.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is this true?
[34:15.400 --> 34:15.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: No.
[34:16.340 --> 34:16.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: No?
[34:16.960 --> 34:17.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: No.
[34:17.980 --> 34:19.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: But thanks for the question.
[34:19.640 --> 34:22.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Anytime you commit a crime, it's not safe.
[34:22.320 --> 34:23.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's something you've got to remember.
[34:23.760 --> 34:26.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh, when you do things like that, it's committing a crime.
[34:26.840 --> 34:28.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's very simple to realize that.
[34:28.820 --> 34:35.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, uh, you know, using things that don't belong to you to gain access to, uh, to things.
[34:36.180 --> 34:43.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, I don't want to sound like a, like a, you know, some sort of a person that, uh, that plays by all the rules and everything like that.
[34:43.780 --> 34:54.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: But there are certain things like, you know, using, um, using a system and, and not paying for the service is something that someone's going to get angry about.
[34:54.440 --> 34:55.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's very simple.
[34:56.380 --> 35:01.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Experimenting with a system, though, and, and figuring out ways to make it do different things, it's a bit more nebulous.
[35:01.420 --> 35:04.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Someone's still going to get angry, but is it technically breaking the law?
[35:04.680 --> 35:05.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Who's to say?
[35:06.020 --> 35:09.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, uh, at least recognize that there is a risk involved.
[35:09.660 --> 35:10.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's very important.
[35:11.100 --> 35:12.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, let's go to the phones.
[35:12.400 --> 35:13.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[35:13.500 --> 35:13.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[35:14.460 --> 35:16.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, question on hardware.
[35:16.920 --> 35:19.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Using regular single-line phones.
[35:19.160 --> 35:25.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I use one occasionally to dial, like, my 800 bank number to find out my balance.
[35:26.240 --> 35:31.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it requires entering, you know, the number of digits in your check number.
[35:31.500 --> 35:38.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: When I do that on one phone, it dies out after about five numbers and I get nothing.
[35:38.700 --> 35:43.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I use another phone on the same line and I get through.
[35:44.400 --> 35:48.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is there something I should look for in the one phone that doesn't get through?
[35:49.220 --> 35:50.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Wait, you're using...
[35:50.340 --> 35:51.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Normally, in every other case.
[35:52.600 --> 35:52.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[35:53.260 --> 35:54.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Every other case being what?
[35:54.700 --> 35:55.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, every time you...
[35:55.860 --> 35:57.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, regular numbers.
[35:57.300 --> 35:57.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Mm-hmm.
[35:57.600 --> 36:06.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just when I have these numerous digits, uh, like a six-number, uh, check number account.
[36:06.800 --> 36:07.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[36:07.280 --> 36:08.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: In addition to the 800 number.
[36:08.980 --> 36:10.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then you have to enter the pound sign.
[36:11.260 --> 36:14.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: As soon as I hit, like, the fifth digit, I get nothing.
[36:15.160 --> 36:21.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: I go to the other phone, same single-line phone on the same line, and it works fine.
[36:22.380 --> 36:23.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it's not...
[36:23.400 --> 36:23.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's not...
[36:23.840 --> 36:24.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're doing this from your home?
[36:25.000 --> 36:25.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[36:25.480 --> 36:26.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or my office.
[36:26.560 --> 36:27.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or your office.
[36:27.460 --> 36:28.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: But you're using the same phone.
[36:28.980 --> 36:29.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[36:29.380 --> 36:30.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, two different phones.
[36:30.700 --> 36:32.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Two different phones, but you're having the same problem.
[36:32.440 --> 36:32.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Same line.
[36:33.620 --> 36:33.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[36:34.000 --> 36:34.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Same telephone line.
[36:34.920 --> 36:35.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[36:35.160 --> 36:36.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: But you're saying it happens at your home and your office.
[36:37.340 --> 36:37.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry?
[36:38.100 --> 36:39.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're saying this happens at your home and your office?
[36:40.180 --> 36:41.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, just at my, uh, office.
[36:42.060 --> 36:42.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just at your office.
[36:42.680 --> 36:42.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[36:43.120 --> 36:47.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I haven't tried it at the, uh, uh, uh, at home.
[36:47.280 --> 36:47.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[36:47.620 --> 36:48.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I mean, you have to...
[36:48.520 --> 36:50.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: You have to sort of narrow down where the problem is coming from.
[36:50.660 --> 36:52.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: You say it happens on...
[36:52.060 --> 36:52.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just one phone.
[36:52.880 --> 36:53.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: On just one phone.
[36:53.720 --> 36:55.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, obviously, the problem is with that just one phone.
[36:55.620 --> 36:56.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was just wondering if you knew...
[36:56.980 --> 37:02.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that something common with certain types of... It cuts out your tones after a certain number.
[37:02.140 --> 37:02.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right, exactly.
[37:02.800 --> 37:07.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, can you pinpoint how many numbers it takes before it cuts off?
[37:08.060 --> 37:09.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of five.
[37:09.300 --> 37:09.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[37:10.740 --> 37:11.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[37:11.240 --> 37:12.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Usually six.
[37:12.180 --> 37:13.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Five numbers on top of what you dial.
[37:14.380 --> 37:14.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[37:16.260 --> 37:17.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not very many.
[37:17.540 --> 37:18.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's not very many.
[37:18.080 --> 37:21.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Given a menu that says, if you want checking, press one.
[37:21.480 --> 37:23.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want your balance, press two.
[37:23.480 --> 37:23.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[37:23.820 --> 37:24.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that all works.
[37:24.620 --> 37:33.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just after they ask me, you know, to enter my check number with the pound sign, that's when I lose it on that one phone.
[37:33.460 --> 37:33.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Really?
[37:34.720 --> 37:39.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it's a big deal, I just thought maybe you might have had some exposure to it.
[37:39.280 --> 37:39.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: No.
[37:39.640 --> 37:39.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[37:39.940 --> 37:40.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: This might give you a clue.
[37:41.280 --> 37:41.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[37:41.680 --> 37:43.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it's a bad phone.
[37:43.520 --> 37:44.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, I would not use a phone like that.
[37:45.060 --> 37:45.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[37:45.340 --> 37:47.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it works in everything else.
[37:47.740 --> 37:49.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I mean, it makes phone calls.
[37:49.140 --> 37:50.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: It picks up phone calls.
[37:50.360 --> 37:50.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Exactly.
[37:50.860 --> 37:51.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: It rings.
[37:51.740 --> 37:51.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[37:52.060 --> 37:52.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[37:52.460 --> 37:54.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, I mean, phones are supposed to do that.
[37:54.180 --> 37:55.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's supposed to do a lot more than that.
[37:55.340 --> 37:56.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: One other quickie.
[37:56.100 --> 37:56.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: On the same phone.
[37:57.040 --> 37:57.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[37:57.480 --> 38:00.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I put in like a 25-foot extension cord.
[38:00.600 --> 38:00.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[38:01.080 --> 38:06.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: When I put that in, it works fine, except that the dial tone is like screechy.
[38:06.940 --> 38:07.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[38:08.100 --> 38:12.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it the 20... Obviously, it's the 25-foot line, but it must be this phone.
[38:13.260 --> 38:16.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: I would say most of your problems are coming from your phone.
[38:16.120 --> 38:16.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[38:16.620 --> 38:17.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, get rid of that.
[38:17.560 --> 38:18.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: What kind of phone is it?
[38:18.660 --> 38:18.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you...
[38:18.880 --> 38:19.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a Cobra.
[38:19.620 --> 38:20.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a Cobra phone.
[38:20.680 --> 38:21.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Switch button.
[38:21.540 --> 38:21.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[38:22.220 --> 38:22.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well...
[38:22.500 --> 38:24.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's at least three, four years old.
[38:24.220 --> 38:25.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And like I said, I use it every day.
[38:25.940 --> 38:32.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, there may be a Cobra support group out there that meets monthly and talks to each other about these problems.
[38:32.240 --> 38:39.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, uh, I would definitely try something else because, I mean, those are the kind of hassles that people pay good money to co-cuts to get.
[38:39.460 --> 38:41.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, we should have to have those kind of hassles at home.
[38:41.700 --> 38:41.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[38:41.980 --> 38:42.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks anyway.
[38:42.620 --> 38:42.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[38:42.880 --> 38:43.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for your call.
[38:43.620 --> 38:43.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bye.
[38:48.880 --> 38:50.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: We should have to take phone calls and we can be on the net.
[38:50.960 --> 38:54.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because, basically, what this boils down to is that the WBAI phone system stinks.
[38:54.500 --> 38:55.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: We all know that.
[38:55.680 --> 38:56.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: It can't, uh...
[38:56.620 --> 38:59.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Apparently, it can't modulate the signal loud enough so that the modem...
[38:59.860 --> 39:00.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to try something else?
[39:01.120 --> 39:01.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[39:02.040 --> 39:02.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[39:02.480 --> 39:03.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: But we're running out of time here.
[39:03.660 --> 39:05.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have to be on the network in the next couple of minutes.
[39:05.980 --> 39:06.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[39:06.140 --> 39:09.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's take a couple more phone calls and then we'll, uh, go back on the net.
[39:09.620 --> 39:09.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[39:10.120 --> 39:10.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on.
[39:10.440 --> 39:10.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[39:10.820 --> 39:11.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[39:11.420 --> 39:11.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on.
[39:19.040 --> 39:20.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Briefly, let me show the radio.
[39:20.540 --> 39:22.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: What are you attempting to do tonight?
[39:22.260 --> 39:24.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: I tuned in late and then I have a question or two of you.
[39:24.460 --> 39:24.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[39:24.820 --> 39:26.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're, uh, we're trying to get back on the net.
[39:26.940 --> 39:30.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: We were on the net before, but, uh, something went wrong with the, uh, with the computer here.
[39:30.500 --> 39:32.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are you trying to write in with the phone calls or...?
[39:32.900 --> 39:33.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[39:33.400 --> 39:36.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it seems like, uh, our system is incapable of doing both at once.
[39:36.720 --> 39:39.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, we're going to have to make a choice and do the net and then go back to phone calls.
[39:40.620 --> 39:50.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: But basically, we had, we had about 24 people that, um, are online at the same time talking to us on a WBAI channel, which is on the internet, so, um...
[39:50.220 --> 39:53.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds both cool and scary at the same time.
[39:53.400 --> 39:55.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's, it's scary, it's cool, it's fun.
[39:55.480 --> 39:56.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have two brief questions.
[39:56.500 --> 39:57.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: How's Fiber doing?
[39:57.720 --> 39:59.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Fiber is, is, is doing okay.
[40:00.440 --> 40:04.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Investigate a claim he made about them maybe putting chemicals in the food.
[40:04.300 --> 40:05.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Remember, he spoke about that in the interview.
[40:06.240 --> 40:12.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, yeah, and that's, you know, it might sound kind of ridiculous, but, uh, when you're in a prison, uh, strange things do happen to your mind after a while.
[40:12.920 --> 40:14.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, you feel very, very dull.
[40:14.520 --> 40:17.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're saying it's more the trouble with him than with the actual...
[40:17.300 --> 40:18.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it's, it's a trouble with being imprisoned.
[40:19.480 --> 40:20.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a very, uh...
[40:20.980 --> 40:21.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a very definite problem.
[40:22.580 --> 40:31.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: My last question, just briefly, it's not on the topic, but I just signed up for that Sprint, um, voice recognition long distance calling card.
[40:31.740 --> 40:31.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[40:32.060 --> 40:33.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Seems to be working pretty well.
[40:33.860 --> 40:38.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe, could you briefly just discuss the technology behind it and maybe devote a show to it?
[40:38.140 --> 40:41.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, we are going to be experimenting with that, but, uh, I could...
[40:41.540 --> 40:44.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: In my case, it works very well, even though it's a dollar a call.
[40:44.520 --> 40:45.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's, like, really cool.
[40:45.200 --> 40:47.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, let me, let me just ask you something about that service.
[40:47.240 --> 40:49.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, when you use it, you go to a payphone and you use this system...
[40:49.660 --> 40:51.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sure, they get a scientific American.
[40:51.320 --> 40:52.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I can use it from any phone.
[40:52.880 --> 40:53.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[40:53.140 --> 40:54.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: You dial the 800 number.
[40:54.880 --> 40:57.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: You vocally say your number, which is your...
[40:57.580 --> 40:59.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Social security number, right?
[40:59.080 --> 41:13.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's five plus your social security number, and sometimes they may ask you to punch in your PIN number if, like, your voice is funny or something, or they'll automatically ask you what, you know, to call so-and-so, or you just say, call so-and-so.
[41:14.840 --> 41:15.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[41:15.400 --> 41:20.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you only have to enter your PIN number when you're programming, but you're, like, changing what you have in the memory.
[41:20.680 --> 41:25.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: But are you not saying your social security number out loud in a public place?
[41:25.960 --> 41:31.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, but I mean, I assume most people don't know that it's number five plus your social security number.
[41:31.600 --> 41:34.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I imagine anybody hearing five plus another nine digits.
[41:34.860 --> 41:38.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's only for your voice, but you're saying it could be a brief social security number.
[41:38.980 --> 41:39.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[41:40.020 --> 41:40.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't...
[41:40.360 --> 41:40.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know what you're saying?
[41:40.880 --> 41:41.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I mean, I don't...
[41:41.960 --> 41:44.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: The social security number is something that should be kept private.
[41:44.320 --> 41:48.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't like the fact that they're using that as an identification and a public one at that.
[41:49.180 --> 41:51.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: I have not really experimented with the system.
[41:51.740 --> 41:52.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to get an account.
[41:52.860 --> 41:53.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to play with it on the air.
[41:53.900 --> 41:55.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll figure it out.
[41:55.240 --> 41:57.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: It seems to work pretty good.
[41:57.480 --> 42:00.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: They also have operator assistance if you need to talk to someone live.
[42:01.180 --> 42:05.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: But do you think this is the future of... I think 9x is getting it too or something.
[42:06.560 --> 42:09.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Voice recognition is popping up everywhere.
[42:09.440 --> 42:11.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Sprint one is kind of an impressive one.
[42:11.480 --> 42:13.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I can't be on the net, huh?
[42:14.820 --> 42:17.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, unless you have a computer and a modem right now, it's going to be... Only in my head.
[42:17.700 --> 42:18.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is a first step.
[42:18.960 --> 42:19.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's put it that way.
[42:19.580 --> 42:22.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a first step and it's a bit of a stumble too, but we're going to get there.
[42:22.720 --> 42:26.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, first you have to take out all the CIA devices and the WBAI phone lines.
[42:27.060 --> 42:29.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, that's probably what's causing all the problems.
[42:29.200 --> 42:29.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Take care, buddy.
[42:29.640 --> 42:30.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, take care.
[42:30.720 --> 42:32.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's go back to the net now.
[42:32.340 --> 42:35.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to use that phone and we're going to grab a line.
[42:35.280 --> 42:35.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: You want a line now?
[42:36.060 --> 42:36.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[42:36.920 --> 42:37.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have a line.
[42:37.940 --> 42:38.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're calling up the net.
[42:38.880 --> 42:42.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: It means we can't take phone calls temporarily until we get back.
[42:43.480 --> 42:47.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: And once we're logged on, we'll see how quickly this whole procedure takes.
[42:47.280 --> 42:47.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we're dialing.
[42:48.740 --> 42:52.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we will have something hooked up in just a moment.
[42:53.120 --> 42:54.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know if we can hear this on the air.
[42:56.460 --> 42:58.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, that's a connection there.
[42:59.620 --> 43:00.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[43:00.520 --> 43:02.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a high-speed connection, folks.
[43:03.900 --> 43:04.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Makes a lot of noise.
[43:06.400 --> 43:07.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, are we online?
[43:07.740 --> 43:08.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, great.
[43:08.420 --> 43:10.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're connected at 19.2.
[43:10.820 --> 43:21.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm going to log in now to a system that will be anonymous for now, but we'll give you more information later on as far as this kind of...
[43:21.560 --> 43:22.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, I forgot my passwords.
[43:22.720 --> 43:23.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: I remember my password.
[43:24.100 --> 43:26.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Since we just set this up a few minutes ago, I don't remember.
[43:26.660 --> 43:27.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you very much.
[43:28.000 --> 43:29.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm losing my mind here.
[43:30.300 --> 43:32.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we're back on IRC now.
[43:32.620 --> 43:39.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to join the WBAI channel and see who's there.
[43:40.220 --> 43:41.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we have a lot of people here.
[43:42.740 --> 43:44.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I'm going to tell them we're back.
[43:46.140 --> 43:54.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, we're going to ask people once more, where is everybody calling from?
[43:55.040 --> 43:56.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's see what kind of response we get.
[43:57.200 --> 43:58.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Everybody's saying hi, hello.
[43:58.800 --> 44:00.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: And boy, this is coming over fast.
[44:01.520 --> 44:03.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we've got Bridgewater, New Jersey.
[44:03.340 --> 44:04.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: South Jersey.
[44:05.160 --> 44:06.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for the opt.
[44:07.000 --> 44:07.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Philadelphia.
[44:08.080 --> 44:08.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Queens.
[44:08.860 --> 44:09.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Kew Gardens.
[44:10.320 --> 44:10.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Cyberspace.
[44:11.140 --> 44:12.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's really cute.
[44:13.180 --> 44:13.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Bronx.
[44:14.120 --> 44:14.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Greenwich, Connecticut.
[44:15.020 --> 44:15.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Brooklyn.
[44:15.760 --> 44:16.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Boston, Massachusetts.
[44:17.760 --> 44:18.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: New York City.
[44:18.720 --> 44:19.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: White Plains.
[44:20.200 --> 44:21.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know how to pronounce that.
[44:22.420 --> 44:23.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Louisville, Kentucky.
[44:23.580 --> 44:24.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: The East Village.
[44:24.700 --> 44:25.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oakdale.
[44:25.920 --> 44:27.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: New Haven, Connecticut.
[44:27.980 --> 44:30.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm whistling into a payphone in Jersey.
[44:30.300 --> 44:30.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[44:31.260 --> 44:32.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Bellport, New York.
[44:33.120 --> 44:34.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Brooklyn, New York.
[44:34.900 --> 44:36.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: The West Coast.
[44:37.040 --> 44:38.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Brooklyn again.
[44:38.440 --> 44:39.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Washington Heights.
[44:39.980 --> 44:40.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oakdale again.
[44:41.040 --> 44:42.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Don't repeat yourselves, folks.
[44:42.980 --> 44:43.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Canarsie.
[44:44.400 --> 44:45.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: Columbus Avenue.
[44:46.040 --> 44:46.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Westchester.
[44:46.800 --> 44:47.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Tarrytown.
[44:48.160 --> 44:48.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oakdale again.
[44:48.900 --> 44:50.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: This person just keeps saying Oakdale.
[44:50.260 --> 44:51.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm not going to say it anymore.
[44:51.800 --> 44:52.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Old City, Philadelphia.
[44:53.420 --> 44:54.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Paramus, New Jersey.
[44:55.380 --> 44:56.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Blahville.
[44:56.900 --> 44:57.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: Williamsburg.
[44:58.020 --> 44:59.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: The middle of Long Island Sound.
[44:59.300 --> 45:03.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, I think we pretty much got a fair sampling there as far as where everybody is calling from.
[45:03.860 --> 45:05.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, here we are on the net.
[45:05.540 --> 45:18.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: And what I'm going to do is ask people here, is there a message you would like to pass along to WBAI listeners?
[45:21.480 --> 45:25.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we're going to see what people have to say to the folks listening on the radio.
[45:25.220 --> 45:25.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now,
[45:29.280 --> 45:29.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: kill Rebel.
[45:30.040 --> 45:31.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I don't know.
[45:32.020 --> 45:32.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know.
[45:34.880 --> 45:36.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Tell Excalibur that he should connect to IRC.
[45:36.700 --> 45:38.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, that's kind of a personal message there, isn't it?
[45:38.960 --> 45:39.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[45:39.580 --> 45:40.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Send your money next week.
[45:40.780 --> 45:41.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Very good.
[45:41.420 --> 45:41.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Very good.
[45:41.960 --> 45:43.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, that's what we want people to do.
[45:43.780 --> 45:44.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Tell them to get on the net.
[45:45.020 --> 45:46.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Another very good suggestion.
[45:46.200 --> 45:46.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Say no to Clipper.
[45:46.920 --> 45:49.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, no commercial advertising.
[45:49.780 --> 45:50.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right.
[45:50.480 --> 45:51.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: You'll never hear that here.
[45:53.940 --> 45:55.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, say no to Clipper.
[45:55.640 --> 45:56.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Say yes to Hillary.
[45:57.160 --> 45:58.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: Vote for Howard Stern.
[45:58.840 --> 45:59.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Kill Rebel again.
[45:59.960 --> 46:00.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Say no to Clipper.
[46:00.760 --> 46:01.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Dump Clipper.
[46:01.840 --> 46:03.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Get a T1 to WBAI already.
[46:04.160 --> 46:05.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're working on it.
[46:05.180 --> 46:06.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Say hi to Fiber.
[46:06.240 --> 46:06.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Absolutely.
[46:07.500 --> 46:09.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: And hi to Amitech.
[46:10.340 --> 46:12.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Overthrow 9x Anarchy.
[46:14.580 --> 46:17.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's pretty much what the sampling is right there.
[46:17.820 --> 46:25.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, now, since we are starting to run low on time, it's time to get into a bit of what we are here for.
[46:26.040 --> 46:28.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that is the special announcement we have to make.
[46:30.540 --> 46:38.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, as far as various things that have happened in the hacker world, we've brought you various things in the past.
[46:40.040 --> 46:43.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Indictments, trials, prison terms, things like that.
[46:43.260 --> 46:51.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: We've also brought you happier occasions from foreign lands, such as the Galactic Hacker Party and Hackers at the End of the Universe and various things like that.
[46:51.700 --> 46:58.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, you know, the happy times have never really come to us here in this particular town.
[46:59.380 --> 47:00.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's going to change.
[47:01.360 --> 47:04.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: This summer, there's going to be a...
[47:04.800 --> 47:08.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: I guess you'd call it a celebration of the hacker world.
[47:08.020 --> 47:19.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: It will be the 10th anniversary of 2600 Magazine and a coming together of minds from both the United States and various countries in Europe, Asia, all over the world.
[47:20.020 --> 47:27.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we're going to have the very first, very first American hacker conference of this sort.
[47:27.400 --> 47:32.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: There are many hacker conferences such as SummerCon, HoHoCon, DEFCON, various things like that.
[47:32.460 --> 47:33.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: But this is going to be different.
[47:33.700 --> 47:36.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is going to be something right smack in the middle of New York City.
[47:37.440 --> 47:41.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we will have a network set up similar to what we have here.
[47:41.340 --> 47:47.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to have speakers coming in from all around, speaking on various topics.
[47:47.540 --> 47:50.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it will be taking place August 13th and 14th.
[47:50.640 --> 47:52.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're calling it Hackers on Planet Earth.
[47:54.280 --> 47:56.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we sure hope it works out.
[47:56.320 --> 47:59.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we'll give you more information on that as it comes in.
[47:59.100 --> 48:00.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: And right now we have a date.
[48:00.660 --> 48:02.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have a location as in New York City.
[48:02.880 --> 48:05.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: We will have the final details next week at this time.
[48:05.980 --> 48:08.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll be giving people further details.
[48:09.760 --> 48:11.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: So spread the word.
[48:11.780 --> 48:15.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hackers on Planet Earth coming to New York City August 13th and 14th this year.
[48:16.200 --> 48:19.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's going to be one of the most unusual events ever.
[48:19.800 --> 48:20.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: I can guarantee that.
[48:22.140 --> 48:22.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[48:22.960 --> 48:23.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's something...
[48:23.940 --> 48:25.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, we didn't tell the people on the net that.
[48:25.100 --> 48:26.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you want to just tell the people on the net?
[48:27.000 --> 48:30.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Someone who can sort of translate what I just said.
[48:30.280 --> 48:31.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then we'll go back to the telephones.
[48:33.220 --> 48:51.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: In case those of you that might be tuning in for the first time didn't hear what happened at Hackers at the End of the Universe, Galactic Hacker Party, basically those both took place in Holland, a country that is not quite as paranoid as we are here in this country concerning playing around with the net,
[48:51.460 --> 48:56.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: playing around with hacking and various other healthy things that go on.
[48:57.500 --> 48:58.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: People experiment.
[48:58.460 --> 48:59.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: And they learn.
[48:59.460 --> 49:00.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: And they share information.
[49:00.680 --> 49:02.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to try to bring that back here.
[49:02.620 --> 49:11.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to try and have people come in and talk in an open fashion and play with machines and hopefully wake up a lot of people.
[49:11.300 --> 49:13.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully bring a lot of new people on the net as well.
[49:13.800 --> 49:15.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Don't think this is something that is limited to hackers.
[49:15.940 --> 49:21.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you're not a hacker, we want to see you there too because that's something that we think you'll find an interest in.
[49:21.760 --> 49:28.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you're interested in this program, you'll be interested in the HOPE Conference, which is what Hackers on Planet Earth stands for, after all.
[49:28.360 --> 49:29.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: H-O-P-E.
[49:29.760 --> 49:33.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's 1048, and we've told the people on the net.
[49:33.480 --> 49:35.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is there a reaction from the people on the net?
[49:37.720 --> 49:40.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: I guess they're all kind of in shock right now.
[49:40.940 --> 49:43.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: We don't have another frozen thing, do we?
[49:44.040 --> 49:44.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: No.
[49:44.440 --> 49:44.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[49:45.280 --> 49:47.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll wait for a reaction on the net, then we'll go back to the telephones.
[49:48.320 --> 49:48.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh...
[49:48.620 --> 49:49.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Net splits.
[49:49.400 --> 49:50.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: Our, uh...
[49:50.040 --> 49:51.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, net splits are bad news.
[49:51.660 --> 49:52.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's try changing to a different server.
[49:52.940 --> 49:53.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do you think so?
[49:53.580 --> 49:54.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, you think we split?
[49:54.540 --> 49:54.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know.
[49:55.080 --> 49:56.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: It might be on the way of splitting.
[49:56.280 --> 49:56.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[49:56.640 --> 49:59.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, even nobody is talking all of a sudden that we have what's known as a net split.
[49:59.480 --> 50:03.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's where one part of the net goes one way, one part of the net goes another way.
[50:03.380 --> 50:06.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we're going to try and get on, get back connected.
[50:07.960 --> 50:08.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[50:08.380 --> 50:09.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Doesn't like our nickname.
[50:10.640 --> 50:11.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, there we are.
[50:11.300 --> 50:11.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're back.
[50:12.720 --> 50:13.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we have about...
[50:13.580 --> 50:14.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: How many people are on there?
[50:15.960 --> 50:17.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Looks like about 30 people or so.
[50:19.040 --> 50:19.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[50:20.660 --> 50:21.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: We are back online.
[50:22.100 --> 50:26.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: In case you're calling in or have access to the net, call us on the, uh...
[50:26.540 --> 50:26.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: on internet.
[50:27.420 --> 50:28.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: 28 people online right now.
[50:29.360 --> 50:31.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: IRC channel WBAI.
[50:32.740 --> 50:33.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, we had a net split.
[50:34.000 --> 50:34.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's official now.
[50:36.460 --> 50:38.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we're going to go back to the telephones.
[50:39.920 --> 50:41.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: And hopefully we, uh...
[50:42.240 --> 50:43.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, we can't do this every day.
[50:43.500 --> 50:45.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: People on the net are asking if we can do this every day.
[50:45.540 --> 50:46.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully one day we'll be able to.
[50:47.720 --> 50:48.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh...
[50:48.840 --> 50:51.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Already people are speaking about the HOPE conference now.
[50:51.580 --> 50:52.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: I can't wait until HOPE.
[50:53.900 --> 50:54.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'll bring the beer.
[50:54.860 --> 50:55.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Great.
[50:55.240 --> 50:55.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Fine.
[50:55.660 --> 50:56.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: No problem.
[50:57.440 --> 50:58.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Truly multimedia.
[50:58.500 --> 50:58.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[50:59.400 --> 50:59.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[50:59.860 --> 51:00.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to disconnect.
[51:00.900 --> 51:01.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: How do we disconnect gracefully?
[51:01.860 --> 51:02.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is there any way?
[51:02.520 --> 51:02.700]  Yep.
[51:04.220 --> 51:04.540]  Okay.
[51:05.180 --> 51:05.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[51:05.500 --> 51:06.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: We hung up the phone.
[51:06.360 --> 51:06.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Great.
[51:06.660 --> 51:07.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's the best way to do it.
[51:07.840 --> 51:09.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's go back to the telephones now.
[51:09.220 --> 51:09.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[51:09.580 --> 51:10.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the radio.
[51:10.480 --> 51:10.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, hello.
[51:11.080 --> 51:11.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: How are you?
[51:12.180 --> 51:12.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[51:12.620 --> 51:13.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, jeez.
[51:13.160 --> 51:14.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've got to get these headphones off.
[51:21.230 --> 51:23.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I wanted to, uh, know if you had some information.
[51:23.970 --> 51:25.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: You mentioned the Risks Digest.
[51:26.170 --> 51:26.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[51:26.730 --> 51:27.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Earlier.
[51:27.610 --> 51:31.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, now that, is that available only on the internet?
[51:32.070 --> 51:36.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, or is, in other words, is there a, uh, a mailing list to access?
[51:36.950 --> 51:38.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, there is a mailing list.
[51:38.550 --> 51:44.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know if they, uh, I'm not really sure if you can have things mailed to you from there.
[51:44.570 --> 51:48.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, the Usenet address is comp.risks.
[51:49.230 --> 51:50.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I'm looking right now.
[51:50.570 --> 51:54.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: I have a printout from it, but I don't think I have the part of the printout that gives the actual address.
[51:54.930 --> 51:56.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, I'll try to get that for next week.
[51:56.930 --> 51:59.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'll tell people how they can, uh, they can get the information.
[51:59.210 --> 52:00.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's too bad that we can't do interactive yet.
[52:01.190 --> 52:04.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to, we're going to devote a lot of time to this because we want to get WBAI onto the net.
[52:05.010 --> 52:09.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: We want to get, um, people access so that you can ask us a question.
[52:09.410 --> 52:12.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: We can type something on the keyboard and get an answer for you.
[52:12.530 --> 52:16.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: For instance, one thing that I like to show people whenever they, um, they see the net for the first time.
[52:16.950 --> 52:18.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: I say pick a subject.
[52:18.110 --> 52:19.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Any subject whatsoever.
[52:20.110 --> 52:22.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: And let's see if there's a news group that discusses it.
[52:22.510 --> 52:27.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: And usually, no matter how vague the subject is, there's somebody on the planet that has a news group devoted to it.
[52:27.290 --> 52:30.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you can exchange messages and, and ask questions about it.
[52:31.170 --> 52:32.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, uh, that's something to keep in mind.
[52:33.270 --> 52:36.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh, something that we'll try and share with as many people as possible.
[52:36.450 --> 52:39.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, yeah, I would like to get on, you know, if there's, uh, some low cost.
[52:39.690 --> 52:41.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I live in, uh, northern New Jersey.
[52:42.330 --> 52:46.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, personal computer show mentioned, uh, uh, provided a Mordor.
[52:46.230 --> 52:47.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you know anything about them?
[52:47.030 --> 52:47.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Don't know them.
[52:48.090 --> 52:49.110]  [SPEAKER_22]: No, I've never heard that name before.
[52:49.350 --> 52:51.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're supposed to be in, uh, northern New Jersey.
[52:52.010 --> 52:58.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I've heard of Echo, but, uh, no, I've got, uh, MCI mail and a couple other things that I can receive, uh, mailing lists.
[52:58.390 --> 53:00.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, it's not really like being on the net, though.
[53:00.410 --> 53:00.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[53:00.610 --> 53:07.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, probably, what I suggest for people that don't have, that can't find a service in their area, go to your local college, take a course.
[53:07.050 --> 53:08.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's worth the price of admission.
[53:08.790 --> 53:09.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Not the price of admission.
[53:10.250 --> 53:14.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, of, uh, that's, uh, makes it sound like a, uh, a carnival or something like that.
[53:14.450 --> 53:14.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Tuition.
[53:15.070 --> 53:16.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, tuition is, is, is the word.
[53:16.810 --> 53:18.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, um, some colleges you never know these days.
[53:19.050 --> 53:19.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right.
[53:19.370 --> 53:25.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: And through that, most colleges, check first, uh, most colleges offer internet access, uh, for any student.
[53:25.770 --> 53:32.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then once you have internet access, you can either use their particular computer rooms, or you can call in and use your home computer.
[53:33.410 --> 53:34.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, good idea.
[53:34.250 --> 53:36.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, and, and there's no per-hour charges for that.
[53:37.010 --> 53:37.270]  Mm-hmm.
[53:37.450 --> 53:38.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and you can get an education, too.
[53:39.110 --> 53:39.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, exactly.
[53:40.470 --> 53:40.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[53:40.910 --> 53:41.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks a lot.
[53:41.670 --> 53:42.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for calling.
[53:42.350 --> 53:42.630]  Thanks for calling.
[53:42.950 --> 53:49.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh, NYU, Columbia University, those are two major universities here in town that, uh, you can certainly enroll in.
[53:49.870 --> 53:52.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of course, they're both probably very expensive, but, hey, take a gym class or something.
[53:53.030 --> 53:53.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know.
[53:53.450 --> 53:56.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's got, there's got to be a way to, uh, to do this.
[53:56.670 --> 53:58.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, we're, we're open to all suggestions.
[53:59.310 --> 54:04.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're trying to make it as cheap and as easy as possible for everybody because the net is really an incredible place to be.
[54:04.730 --> 54:05.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[54:05.310 --> 54:05.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the radio.
[54:06.150 --> 54:06.670]  Uh, yes.
[54:06.790 --> 54:07.310]  How's it going?
[54:07.410 --> 54:09.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: The radio's an incredible place to be, too, you know.
[54:09.470 --> 54:10.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, tell me about it.
[54:10.470 --> 54:10.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[54:10.950 --> 54:11.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: So what's on your mind?
[54:11.910 --> 54:13.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I want to ask you a quick question.
[54:13.750 --> 54:14.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, one is that this.
[54:15.150 --> 54:19.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've just recently watched the, uh, the movie, um, um, uh, um, sneakers.
[54:20.070 --> 54:20.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[54:20.790 --> 54:26.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I want to ask, is it really possible that you can tap into a satellite network and actually bounce telephone numbers off of it?
[54:26.950 --> 54:29.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, you can bounce telephone numbers off satellites.
[54:29.550 --> 54:32.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's been done many times, but, uh, not the way they did it.
[54:32.850 --> 54:36.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: They did it in a Hollywood way, you know, especially when they were being traced by the NSA.
[54:37.290 --> 54:37.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[54:37.450 --> 54:40.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: The part where you can figure out how far you've been traced.
[54:40.330 --> 54:48.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: I, I could never quite understand what, what kind of technology they used to figure out that they were being traced so far and that they were about to be traced in full.
[54:48.890 --> 54:50.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was, it was very graphic.
[54:50.290 --> 54:52.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was very pretty, but realistic now.
[54:52.670 --> 54:53.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not possible.
[54:54.110 --> 54:55.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm asked, who am I speaking to?
[54:55.630 --> 54:56.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, Emmanuel Goldstein.
[54:57.030 --> 54:57.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, how's it going?
[54:58.170 --> 54:58.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: How are you?
[54:58.970 --> 55:01.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, on Channel 7, uh, Monday night, 1130.
[55:02.110 --> 55:03.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, yeah, Nightline.
[55:04.430 --> 55:05.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: That was, that was an experience.
[55:06.070 --> 55:07.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know if anybody saw me on Nightline.
[55:07.370 --> 55:08.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: That was, that was fun.
[55:08.410 --> 55:09.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: That was pretty good.
[55:09.210 --> 55:16.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, you know, I'm glad you brought this up because I can explain what Nightline is like to everybody because I, I imagine most of our listeners probably haven't been on Nightline.
[55:17.590 --> 55:22.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I bet a lot of people won't ever be on Nightline, so, uh, you can sort of experience it through me.
[55:22.490 --> 55:23.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, uh, I'll describe that to the folks.
[55:24.010 --> 55:24.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for the call.
[55:24.750 --> 55:25.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, take care.
[55:25.410 --> 55:25.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[55:26.210 --> 55:36.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Basically what they do is they bring you into a studio and, you know, you walk through right where Peter Jennings and everybody sit and, and, and the World News Now people, the, the big ABC New York newsroom.
[55:36.190 --> 55:37.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: You walk past all that.
[55:37.490 --> 55:39.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's all this clamor and commotion going on there.
[55:39.550 --> 55:46.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: And they take you into this little closet type of room with all these patch bays and, and machines and, and monitors and things like that.
[55:46.930 --> 55:51.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: They sit you down in a chair and they tell you to look straight ahead at a, at a, at a dark camera.
[55:52.170 --> 55:53.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can't see anything.
[55:53.190 --> 55:57.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's no real, uh, uh, face that you're staring into.
[55:57.670 --> 55:59.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can see the monitor for a little while.
[55:59.530 --> 56:02.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, you can see yourself being bounced over to Washington, D.C.
[56:02.990 --> 56:06.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can see, uh, the other people that you're going to be talking to.
[56:06.290 --> 56:08.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: But you don't actually see them when you're talking to them.
[56:08.930 --> 56:11.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: You only hear them, which can be kind of confusing sometimes.
[56:11.650 --> 56:16.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: But when you do see yourself, it's kind of interesting because you're bouncing off a satellite.
[56:16.630 --> 56:18.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're going down there to Washington, D.C.
[56:18.390 --> 56:19.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: and you're coming back.
[56:19.290 --> 56:21.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, I first noticed this when I was looking at the monitor.
[56:22.050 --> 56:23.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I, I, I blinked.
[56:23.570 --> 56:24.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I saw myself blink.
[56:24.970 --> 56:26.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: I've never seen that before.
[56:26.290 --> 56:28.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: You, you, you blink and then you open your eyes and there you are blinking.
[56:29.090 --> 56:33.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: And if you raise your hand, it's even more weird because you see yourself raising your hand after you've put your hand down.
[56:33.890 --> 56:35.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you start feeling kind of dizzy.
[56:35.890 --> 56:39.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: And after a while, they, they told me to stop blinking and raising my arm so much.
[56:39.670 --> 56:40.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we got on with the show.
[56:41.150 --> 56:47.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that was, um, was fun because, uh, you're staring into this, this, this blank monitor.
[56:47.390 --> 56:49.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you realize that's the face of America right there.
[56:49.570 --> 56:50.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're staring into it.
[56:50.470 --> 56:52.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you're talking to millions of people.
[56:53.330 --> 56:55.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you don't see anything back.
[56:55.130 --> 56:56.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: You don't even see the people you're talking to.
[56:56.510 --> 56:57.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: You just hear them in a headphone.
[56:58.210 --> 56:59.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's how, how Nightline goes.
[57:00.090 --> 57:01.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you know, Nightline is not live.
[57:01.470 --> 57:04.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: It, uh, it's taped in the afternoon, like around 5.30 or 6 or so.
[57:05.330 --> 57:08.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then they, uh, they basically play the tape part.
[57:08.370 --> 57:12.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: And they give you two, five and a half minute, um, um, debate periods.
[57:12.090 --> 57:13.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Which go really, really fast.
[57:14.030 --> 57:15.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, uh, I think how it works every night.
[57:16.050 --> 57:17.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: But that's how it worked that particular time.
[57:17.750 --> 57:19.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was over before I knew it.
[57:19.730 --> 57:21.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's how quick it was.
[57:21.470 --> 57:24.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it was also interesting because I saw the replay on World News Now.
[57:24.570 --> 57:28.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: And for some reason, they, they edited things in a strange way.
[57:28.350 --> 57:34.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: So that, um, they introduced, um, um, Harvey Silverglade, the, uh, attorney for David LaMaccia.
[57:34.650 --> 57:37.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, they introduced, uh, Jim Settle, the former FBI agent.
[57:38.070 --> 57:39.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then they introduced me.
[57:39.630 --> 57:42.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: But on the replay, they, they sort of shuffled that around.
[57:42.410 --> 57:43.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: They introduced me second.
[57:43.330 --> 57:44.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: I couldn't understand why they did that.
[57:44.930 --> 57:48.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: But somebody made an editorial decision that they wanted to introduce me second instead of third.
[57:48.490 --> 57:57.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: So that's, uh, those are all the observations I can remember off the top of my head from that particular program, which was a very strange and surreal experience.
[57:58.030 --> 58:03.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, speaking of strange, surreal experiences, let's, uh, cram as much as we can into the remaining minute or two.
[58:03.830 --> 58:04.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[58:04.270 --> 58:04.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the radio.
[58:05.070 --> 58:05.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[58:06.090 --> 58:06.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: How are you?
[58:06.590 --> 58:07.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Turn my radio down.
[58:07.490 --> 58:13.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, the person that, uh, wanted the number to Morda in New Jersey, I have two numbers for you.
[58:13.690 --> 58:14.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, go ahead.
[58:14.310 --> 58:21.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, the first one is, uh, theory code 201-432-0060.
[58:21.970 --> 58:23.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's Morda, or whatever he called it.
[58:24.410 --> 58:29.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's also one in Bergen County called ECWAV, ECWAV.
[58:30.670 --> 58:34.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Edward's probably going to kill me for this, and it stands for Electric Chair with a View.
[58:34.550 --> 58:35.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[58:36.250 --> 58:37.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a great name.
[58:37.510 --> 58:39.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're located in Rochelle Park.
[58:39.670 --> 58:42.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I can give you the Sissab's voice number.
[58:42.850 --> 58:43.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I don't know.
[58:43.390 --> 58:43.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Does he want that?
[58:44.310 --> 58:45.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[58:45.190 --> 58:49.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: It came in the letter, and I've seen him advertising it on the boards and stuff.
[58:49.890 --> 58:51.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I don't know.
[58:51.990 --> 58:53.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is that the only number you have for the system?
[58:53.970 --> 58:55.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the only number I have for the system.
[58:55.610 --> 59:02.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anybody that wants to join gets sent, like, this, uh, ECWAV terms and agreement thing, and it has his voice number on it.
[59:03.090 --> 59:03.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um.
[59:04.510 --> 59:06.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, do what you feel is prudent, but, uh...
[59:06.730 --> 59:24.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, I guess anybody in New Jersey that would want it, uh, it's 201-845-8313, and since he's in Bergen County, let's use a little brevity and call him during normal hours, normal human hours, not normal hacker hours where we call people at 4 o'clock in the morning.
[59:24.830 --> 59:25.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, yeah.
[59:25.310 --> 59:26.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, most people don't appreciate that.
[59:27.050 --> 59:28.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, thanks for the information.
[59:28.370 --> 59:33.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, by the way, uh, on your nightline thing, uh, nice video delay there, huh?
[59:33.650 --> 59:34.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, there's...
[59:34.410 --> 59:37.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Take a nice blink there, and you watch yourself blink, and you're like, huh?
[59:38.030 --> 59:38.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[59:39.330 --> 59:41.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know, I have my daddy used to work for a TV station.
[59:41.830 --> 59:45.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's, uh, it's fun, especially when you're trying to talk at the same time as somebody else and they're not aware of it.
[59:45.710 --> 59:46.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it's great, I'll tell you.
[59:47.150 --> 59:47.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's an experience.
[59:48.290 --> 59:49.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I call it the Koppel effect.
[59:50.290 --> 59:51.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Koppel effect?
[59:51.170 --> 59:53.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, it's kind of like the Doppler effect, but a little different.
[59:53.930 --> 59:54.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm, yeah.
[59:54.890 --> 59:56.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: He brought it home to many of us.
[59:57.010 --> 59:57.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is pretty good.
[59:57.750 --> 01:00:02.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, if only WBAI can just get a, uh, decent, uh, phone system in there.
[01:00:02.550 --> 01:00:04.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, hopefully the marathon will help us with that.
[01:00:04.610 --> 01:00:06.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm gonna, I'm gonna push for it myself.
[01:00:06.430 --> 01:00:08.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, know what you should do to get on the net?
[01:00:08.550 --> 01:00:09.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: What's that?
[01:00:09.090 --> 01:00:10.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a really good idea.
[01:00:11.210 --> 01:00:12.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Use a cellular phone?
[01:00:12.350 --> 01:00:13.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no, no, no.
[01:00:14.030 --> 01:00:14.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Take over Echo.
[01:00:16.270 --> 01:00:18.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's one solution.
[01:00:18.810 --> 01:00:20.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: I guess that's one idea.
[01:00:20.110 --> 01:00:21.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, thanks for the call, though.
[01:00:21.250 --> 01:00:22.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're gonna go on to one more phone call.
[01:00:22.770 --> 01:00:23.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully we can squeeze this one in.
[01:00:23.970 --> 01:00:24.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening, you're on.
[01:00:24.910 --> 01:00:25.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: What?
[01:00:25.590 --> 01:00:26.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: I said you're on.
[01:00:26.750 --> 01:00:27.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, hello.
[01:00:27.450 --> 01:00:27.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[01:00:28.250 --> 01:00:29.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, I got a couple questions for you.
[01:00:29.810 --> 01:00:30.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, make it fast.
[01:00:30.710 --> 01:00:32.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have about 15 seconds.
[01:00:32.510 --> 01:00:33.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was, like, Red Boxing.
[01:00:33.730 --> 01:00:34.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:34.690 --> 01:00:35.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, um...
[01:00:35.330 --> 01:00:36.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Red Boxing, okay.
[01:00:36.450 --> 01:00:37.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: At least they will do it locally.
[01:00:37.870 --> 01:00:38.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:38.310 --> 01:00:40.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Find the area code first for you as a long-distance call.
[01:00:40.390 --> 01:00:40.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:40.970 --> 01:00:43.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then, like, all of a sudden, it stopped working.
[01:00:43.530 --> 01:00:43.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:43.930 --> 01:00:45.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: It wouldn't let us post pay.
[01:00:45.450 --> 01:00:45.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:45.750 --> 01:00:47.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: They can root it through 411.
[01:00:47.510 --> 01:00:47.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:48.110 --> 01:00:50.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then they ask, like, if you want to connect, and you do it that way.
[01:00:50.870 --> 01:00:51.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:51.450 --> 01:00:52.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: It'll allow you to do it.
[01:00:52.310 --> 01:00:55.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: But my friend said they'll take a ground test.
[01:00:55.110 --> 01:00:55.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: They'll get an onalia.
[01:00:55.770 --> 01:00:56.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is that like so?
[01:00:57.430 --> 01:01:05.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, you know, I don't really know the answer to that one because, uh, my Red Box days, uh, are long in the past.
[01:01:05.250 --> 01:01:10.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, um, it's quite likely that, uh, it was working through the information service.
[01:01:10.330 --> 01:01:13.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's where you pay an extra 30 or 35 cents for the privilege of being connected right away.
[01:01:14.270 --> 01:01:16.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, you're saying that doesn't work anymore?
[01:01:16.410 --> 01:01:17.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it works.
[01:01:17.390 --> 01:01:19.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: But then, uh, my friend said that he had a friend who got nailed doing it that way.
[01:01:20.030 --> 01:01:20.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: I did a ground test.
[01:01:21.010 --> 01:01:23.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: I've never heard of anybody being nailed for doing Red Boxing.
[01:01:23.390 --> 01:01:27.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, of course, it's certainly possible because you are putting fake quarters in the payphone.
[01:01:27.830 --> 01:01:31.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, it's, uh, you know, it's open to speculation and rumor.
[01:01:32.230 --> 01:01:38.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: The way most, most Red Boxing, uh, problems, uh, come about is through individual payphones.
[01:01:38.530 --> 01:01:44.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: One payphone is, uh, is, is more selective than another because it's been, it's been modified in a particular way.
[01:01:44.510 --> 01:01:45.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the other payphone has not been.
[01:01:45.810 --> 01:01:49.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: But that's really about as technical as I can get at the moment because we are completely out of time.
[01:01:49.690 --> 01:01:50.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for the call.
[01:01:50.570 --> 01:01:56.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, anybody that, uh, hasn't heard about it, uh, come to the 2600 meeting this, uh, Friday between 5 and 8 p.m. at the CitiCorp Center down in the lobby by the payphones.
[01:01:58.950 --> 01:02:03.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: And remember, hackers on planet Earth this summer, August 13th and 14th in New York City.
[01:02:04.190 --> 01:02:07.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: There'll be a lot of strange people showing up from all around the planet.
[01:02:13.640 --> 01:02:14.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's our show for tonight.
[01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:18.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Stay tuned for the WBAI evening news.
[01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:19.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook.
[01:02:19.860 --> 01:02:20.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: See you next week.
[01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:24.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: 10 to 12, a special two-hour show next week for a marathon.
[01:02:24.680 --> 01:02:25.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hope to see you then.
[01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:26.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Take care.