At a new time for my program, the Golden Age of Radio here on WBAI.
He's got to stop listening to those crazy radio programs of his.
What's wrong with them?
Well, there's plenty of good programs you can listen to without that junk.
Well, like what?
There's dozens. I'll show you.
I'll get you something really educational.
If you're searching for the Golden Age of Radio, it's been moved.
I'll get another station.
No, not a different station.
A new time, 8.30, Saturday nights.
Ah, there. That's better.
It's half past eight.
It's half past eight, New York Times.
That's right, half past eight, same day, new time,
Saturdays at 8.30 for the Golden Age of Radio.
Some people say that radio ain't a flexible medium.
What role is the Dominican government playing
in defying the international trade embargo against Haiti?
How is the issue of race used in the recent Dominican elections,
which were marred by fraud?
How have economic forces in both countries worked together
to sustain the status quo?
Balaguer does not like Aristide.
And because Aristide was protesting
against the mistreatment of Haitians in the Dominican Republic.
And even though he verbally says that he is abiding by the embargo,
by the terms of the embargo,
much oil and much goods are passing through the border into Haiti,
which is perpetuating...
Tune in on Monday, June 6th at 8 p.m.
for the premiere edition of WBAI's weekly report on the Americas,
for an update on Haiti, the Dominican Republic,
and a discussion about race relations in the island of Hispaniola,
plus news from around the hemisphere.
The report on the Americas, Monday nights at 8 p.m.,
beginning in June, only on WBAI 99.5 FM.
It's ten o'clock on a Wednesday.
That means it's time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
For Billy Bond was the best, expect the worst
I hope that's understood
For Billy Bond
For Billy Bond
For Billy Bond
And a good evening to one and all.
This is Off the Hook, Emanuel Goldstein with you
from ten to eleven o'clock every Wednesday night,
talking about the latest in high-technology telephones,
computers, the Internet, and the Summer of Hope,
which is something that's fast approaching.
It's driving us crazy, in fact.
The Hacker Convention will be taking place in August.
More on that a little bit later.
For those of you that pledged during our marathon
of the last few weeks, we thank you very much.
For those of you that pledged for the Internet service,
we have not forgotten about you.
And if you need to get through to the system
which we are offering accounts on, escape.com,
you can reach them by voice, 212-888-8780
between the hours of eleven and seven,
by modem, 212-888-8212.
And if you paid by credit card over the past week or so,
the names have not yet gotten to me.
They really should be in my hands now,
but we'll have those in the next couple of days,
and you can keep abreast of the situation
by calling escape and seeing if you've been added yet.
We'll get to everybody as quickly as we possibly can,
and I'll make a lot of phone calls in the next day or so
to find out what the status of this is.
Okay, we have some interesting things that have been going on.
Let's start off with some news.
We have some really, really amazing commercial things too,
which I think people are going to find rather funny,
at the very least.
Yeah, do we have a channel going on the net?
Okay, we'll have some internet access
a little bit later on in the show as well.
And we'll be taking phone calls, of course.
So we have all these activities going on,
too many things to even keep track of.
Well, to start off with...
Have you heard the commercials?
The commercials for AT&T.
The commercials that tell you to forget about all those
1-800-COLLECT and 1-800-OPERATOR numbers.
And you have to wonder, why are they doing this?
Why are they telling people to forget about their own service,
which is 1-800-OPERATOR, and call something else?
Supposedly easier to remember, but to me,
even harder to remember.
1-800-CALLATT is the replacement for 1-800-OPERATOR.
They say that's easier to remember.
How is that possible?
Why is that easier to remember than 1-800-OPERATOR
or 1-800-COLLECT, which belongs to their competitors, MCI?
Well, the truth comes out, as we knew it would.
Apparently, what's been happening is,
people in America haven't always been taught things like spelling.
And a lot of them are calling 1-800-OPERATOR,
spelling it O-P-E-R-A-T-E-R, instead of O-R.
And apparently, that number belongs to MCI, not AT&T.
So, MCI is getting all this AT&T business.
Now, let's get a phone line here,
and see exactly what happens when you call that number,
because I've never actually called it.
O-P-E-R-A-T-E-R.
Let's see if we get MCI, if they've taken advantage of this.
Well, it's busy.
Let's try it one more time.
It's possible that so many people are
taking advantage of this misspelling error.
Let's see what we get this time.
Hey, we got through.
You know, in a way, this could be effective, too.
People think they're reaching AT&T,
and they're not picking up the phone.
Well, I think I'll just try MCI, then,
since AT&T is too busy to pick up the phone.
That's an effective technique.
Let's see what we get this time.
Hey, we got through.
That's an effective technique.
But, supposedly, that's the reason.
We'll just keep that going in the background,
in case something ever happens.
What they say is MCI intentionally did this.
They reserved 1-800-OPERATOR with the ER,
and began scooping up calls intended for its arch-rival.
And we have more information, too, about something else.
One of these overnight millionaires,
Howard Jenkins, that is.
Howard Jenkins was a multi-millionaire for about half a day.
About a week ago, he lost his checkbook,
and called his bank to have a hold put on his account.
When he went to make a deposit Friday morning,
he was told to check the automated teller machine outside
to make sure the account was working.
He made a small withdrawal, and the receipt told him
that his account balance was $889,437.93.
He went home and called the bank's automated telephone account inquiry system,
and was informed that his balance was now more than $88 million.
Interesting, huh?
He went back to the bank and asked the teller for his balance,
and was given an 8-digit number.
She asked if he had received an inheritance or something.
He withdrew $4 million in cashier's checks and cash,
requiring a bank manager's signature on each check,
and they didn't bat an eye.
He returned later that day, accompanied by his lawyer, and returned the money.
Minus the legal fees.
The bank attributes the erroneous balance to a computer error
probably linked to a moron of some sort.
Or, their excuse is the whole transaction.
Several things stand out according to this contributor to the Risk Digest,
Andy Fuller.
1. He was told to check an ATM to see if his account was working.
Whoever told him this should have been able to check directly
using the bank's terminal.
The bank puts a great deal of trust in the computer.
2. The balance shown in the ATM receipt was different
than that given him by the automated telephone information system and the teller.
Is this a user interface problem or something more involved?
3. The computer error is likely to be the fault of inadequate testing
or user interface inadequacy,
calling up a deposit transaction instead of an account hold transaction.
4. Nobody questioned this withdrawal or the large deposit.
The teller who checked his balance was the only one mentioned in the story
that even noticed his windfall.
Remember the quote,
Did you get an inheritance or something?
That was sharp thinking on the part of that bank teller.
5. Proper software and human procedural checks could have caught this error.
If a pre-computer bank teller had been handed a deposit of this size,
the bank manager and everybody in town would have been notified.
When the withdrawal was made, the manager would have known about the deposit
and been confident that the request was legitimate.
6. Are there other human checks and balances included in modern banking computers?
Well, I think the answer is not really.
You don't really know what's going on when you go to a bank these days.
It's almost as much fun as dealing with the phone company,
which we're going to deal with in a second.
Before we do, I want to play the first of several
very, very, very old telephone commercials
that have come our way.
This first one comes, I believe, from the 1960s
and it's kind of a very short, spacey commercial
that I don't really know the origins of,
but it has to do with falling prices of long distance.
Let's have a listen.
Long. Long.
Long distance rates are lower every evening and all weekend.
Long. Long. Long.
OK, that's the first one.
That's kind of the space cadet commercials that we have
from the Bell System, the old former Bell System
when it was all one company.
Our thanks go out to Scott Wormuth of WUSB
for somehow finding these things for us.
I don't know where these things are hiding,
but it's also part of what we'll be doing this summer
at the Hacker Conference.
We'll be finding tapes and recordings of various sorts
involving the phone company, involving telephones,
involving all kinds of mischief.
And if you have any tapes or recordings that you'd like to send to us,
we'll give out the address a little bit later as well.
Well, how can the federal government be sure you are you?
People doing business with the federal government electronically
now will have a way to stamp their documents with a computer-generated signature.
This according to the Associated Press.
The Commerce Department's National Institutes of Standards and Technology
has approved a technical standard designed to ensure
that messages, documents, and other information it receives
from other agencies and from people outside the government are authentic.
The process could be as easy as pushing a button on your personal computer.
That'll call up an electronic signature.
When the document is retrieved by the agency,
a government employee will verify the signature against the person's identity.
A commerce official says all federal agencies
will be using the process by December.
He says individuals and companies will be able to buy software to use it too.
Isn't that amazing? Isn't that peachy keen? Isn't that fun?
Progress! Technological innovations!
America on the move in the 1990s.
Wrong.
This very poor story by the Associated Press fails
to point out the risks involved in this particular scenario.
Something we've been discussing over the past year or so,
namely the Clipper slash Capstone chip,
which allows the government to be able to decode your secret key,
whether it be using cellular phones or encrypted data.
That is something that a lot of people have expressed
great reservations about.
And this particular news item looks like the ceiling
of this particular process, despite those objections.
Basically, you have an electronic signature.
You have a way of encrypting data.
And only you and the government can unlock it.
A lot of people feel that's a bit too crowded,
so I'm going to leave it at that.
Right now, all federal agencies are using this.
Fortunately, most of us are not federal agencies,
and we do not have to.
And we should be careful of any pressure
to use this kind of standard.
And we should also be careful of stories
that don't mention the risks.
OK, today's Newsday.
Prepaid phone cards are poised to become
That's right. According to a small but growing network of collectors,
prepaid phone cards, which bear images
ranging from Marilyn Monroe to panda bears,
allow you to make long-distance calls without coins
or a credit card.
You pay for the card up front in denominations of $2 to $100.
Then you call a toll-free number,
punch in the card's account number, and place your call.
The account is drawn down as you talk.
When the time's up, you can throw the card out or not.
A card that New York Telephone handed out
at the 1992 Democratic National Convention
was worth $1 in phone time.
Most people threw them away, and now an unused card can fetch $1,700.
Are we insane or what?
Some days we might sell 50 or 60 cards,
says Scott DuPont, who runs three small card stores,
which is amazing, considering that nobody knows what they are.
Well, you know, there are certain inherent risks
in that particular bit of technology, too.
You buy this phone card, say it's worth $50 or something,
and you call up an 800 number and you enter a code.
Now, on the card is the 800 number and the code,
which is what the phone companies have been, for the last several years,
trying not to do, because people look over your shoulder,
they see the number, they see the PIN code,
and they're able to use your particular calling card.
If you lose the card, then all that information is also given out.
It's not a very wise system to have,
and of course having an 800 number that anybody can hack
and figure out the system and use other people's calling card numbers
is not very well advised either.
But the worst part about this is,
if you lose the card, if somebody defrauds you
as far as making phone calls, you've already paid,
so it's not likely you're going to get a refund for a card like that.
And what if you use the card and you only get $49 worth instead of $50?
How will you know? You've already paid for it.
There's no real way to check.
It is nice to collect cards, though. I have nothing against that.
All right, time for another commercial,
and then we're going to play with New York Telephone.
Hopefully. Sometimes they...
Actually, not New York Telephone anymore. Now it's 9X.
This is a recording off the...
I believe it's off the television set. It might be off the radio.
It's a one-minute commercial for the Bell System.
Stay tuned for the Jack Reilly special next.
A Minute with Jack, brought to you by the Bell System.
Whenever you travel, call ahead for reservations.
And keep in touch with home by phone.
Now here's Jackie.
And what about those hippies?
Yes, sir, and here's my special guest, Mr. Mal Sharp.
Jack, how do you get a 60-second special like this every year?
I was walking down the street one day when a sponsor came up to me and said,
Hey, Jack, you got a minute?
I'd like to thank everyone who made my minute possible.
So long, this is Reilly, saying so long until next year.
Drive carefully, everybody.
Remember to call ahead for reservations and relax and enjoy your trip.
Hurley Anderson speaking.
Oh, yeah, there must be tons of these things lying around.
Strange and funny phone calls or funny phone commercials.
Things like that.
Again, if you have any of these weird recordings of the phone system past,
you can send them in to us here at off-the-hook care of WBAI 505 8th Avenue,
New York, New York 10018.
As we mentioned, we'll be having a full lineup of these particular types of phone calls
and a lot of video presentations as well as all kinds of panels, seminars,
and don't forget our huge Ethernet that we'll be hooking up with all kinds of computers
and other technological toys.
And it all takes place this August at the Hackers on Planet Earth conference
known as the HOPE conference.
And if you want more information on that, you can give a call to 2600 Magazine 516-751-2600
and you can also call the Voice BBS,
which will be having updated information on travel
and all kinds of other technical issues as well.
That number is 516-473-2626.
And again, that will be taking place August 13th and 14th.
So if you want full registration information,
you can call those numbers
or keep listening to this program in weeks to come.
All right.
Now, time to play around with the phone company a little bit.
There they are.
9X, we have no choice.
That's their slogan.
It's the only phone company in town, the only local company we can use.
So if you're looking for a cell phone, that's who you're going to get.
Now, we were playing with an intercept recording
a couple of weeks ago
and it didn't work.
It did not work at all.
We weren't able to reprogram the actual recording.
Let's see if we are any luckier today.
I'm going to call the number.
The number to reprogram it, that is.
Okay, here we go.
Hey, it worked.
Okay, I've got to turn down the volume here.
Uh-oh, I forgot the password.
Okay, here we go.
516339 is now
4732626
in area code 516.
And if you stay on the line, you can be transferred.
Just part of the amazing technology.
To keep this announcement, press 1.
To record a different announcement, press 2.
To hear this announcement again, press 3.
Let's record a new announcement right here live on the air.
Please record your name and new telephone number
with the area code first.
If you wish, you can include your address as well.
After you have completed your announcement, depress the pound key.
Hello, you have reached
a number which is no longer in service.
But do not fret, the new number for the voicemail system
is area code 5164732626.
And that's not all.
Here's my assistant to give you more information.
If someone calls your disconnected phone number,
they will hear this announcement.
Hello, you have reached a number which is no longer in service.
But do not fret, the new number for the voicemail system
is area code 5164732626.
And that's not all.
Here's my assistant to give you more information.
To keep this announcement, press 1.
Your announcement has been saved.
Thank you for calling 9X's CallMover recording system.
Goodbye.
Okay, now, let's call that number and see if it actually took the recording.
Well, you've reached...
It did not. It's the old recording.
Okay, we'll have to keep checking it throughout the hour
and see if they accept that recording.
It's possible they might have to listen to it first and approve it.
They're very bureaucratic as far as those things go sometimes.
So we'll keep you updated on that particular front.
Alright, we're going to be taking phone calls,
212-279-3400, but before we do,
it's time now for the real space cadet commercial.
This must have been the psychedelic age of the 60s,
I don't understand it myself, I don't know where it aired,
but this is the psychedelic bell system commercial
from the 1960s.
My name is Michael.
My name is Jill.
The space, the system, the bell, the bell system.
My name is Michael.
Anytime, rhyming, anything, bell.
My name is Jill.
My name is Michael. Who are you?
My name is Jill.
Who are you?
Rhyming, anything, bell.
My name is Michael. I like you, Jill.
To communicate is the beginning of understanding.
The bell system, building for the future.
Oh, and experimenting with some drugs on top of that.
And you thought that MCI girl was annoying.
That was from the 60s.
I don't know, is anybody out there that remembers seeing that?
Maybe there were stunning visuals to go with that.
But that is the psychedelic bell system commercial.
Okay.
212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
If there's anybody out there that has questions about new technology,
comments about phones or the Internet or anything like that,
we have an Internet site set up now.
Okay.
Anybody that wants to hop on the Internet again can do so
by calling up our specially set up account,
SWBAI. Password WBAI, too?
Okay. And the phone number for that is 212-888-8212,
which is a palindrome, which is kind of neat.
Unless you have to dial 1 first, in that case it kind of ruins the whole thing.
So what you do is you log on as SWBAI,
you enter the password as SWBAI,
and then it'll ask you for a nickname, and you just have to choose a unique nickname.
And then you'll be connected to the Internet relay chat
that you can talk to people all over the world
that happen to be hooked in at the same time.
All right. If you want to talk to us here at the radio station,
you can call us now at 212-279-3400
and have your voice transmitted from the Empire State Building
all throughout the tri-state area. It's your choice.
Either way, it's kind of neat. Good evening. You're on the air.
Hey, Manuel. How are you doing? Pretty good. How are you?
I have a very interesting recording I can play for you.
Okay. Can you speak up a little?
Okay.
Yeah, but you're really going to have to speak up a bit more.
That's much better.
Yeah.
Also, my phone doesn't play the touch tones.
You'll just hear a beep whenever I press the number. Okay.
Here it goes.
That's real secure.
I did filter this part out. Can you hear it okay?
Yes, fine.
We are still processing your request.
Just like a human.
The number 2-1-5.
Belongs to...
Churchies Ltd.
If you recognize this call and would like to check another call on your bill,
press 1.
Wow, of course I couldn't make out what they said.
Sounds like a robot, but that's interesting.
Basically, it doesn't ask you for your phone number.
No, it asks you for the number that's on your bill.
It does check to see if it's on your bill, but it's like, you know...
Is this available 24 hours or just in the daytime?
It was very strange. We have two phone lines, and I called it on one of them,
and it said we're closed. I called it on the other, and it worked.
Really? Yeah, very strange.
Wow, and that's AT&T 800-222-0300.
You had given out a number 1-800-WOW-IT-SOD a while ago?
Yeah, the old MCI promo that for some reason was giving out recordings of summer sounds.
Yeah, well, there's another one that Pepsi's decided to do now.
I think it's Pepsi. It might be Coke.
1-800-I-FEEL-OK.
Weirdest thing I've ever heard.
And then the last thing is, there's an access code, maybe you could answer this,
that you can dial. It's for Sprint.
When you dial it, it says,
please hold for the Sprint operator.
You get a Sprint operator, but it asks you,
what number are you calling from?
So I tried giving her a Manhattan number, even though I'm not in Manhattan.
She knew that it wasn't from a Manhattan number,
so I tried giving her a number the next call.
That was my number, but the last two digits were flipped around,
as if I'd made a mistake, and she put it through.
And I later found out, when I did it to somebody else's number,
that they got a charge on their bill for a call I made.
Really? With no checking whatsoever?
Very strange.
That is very strange.
Well, listen, I want to thank you for all this investigation.
You really have done your homework here.
Thanks a lot.
Alright, take care.
We would all be in trouble.
Let's try a couple of these things out.
Whoops, sorry, I don't know where that tone came from.
That's the tone I want.
Alright, we're going to call 1-800-I-FEEL-OK.
Let's see what we get.
Getting some strange sounds.
I think 9X failed to process this call.
We're sorry. Your call did not go through.
That's the switchman.
Please try your call again.
OK, sorry to have bothered you, sir.
Let's try that one more time.
I...
Any more dial tones?
That was a fake dial tone, by the way.
That's pretty obvious to me.
Alright, why not?
Let's see if our recording has been changed yet.
And then we have another phone company commercial.
Nope, the old recording still.
I don't know.
With 9X, things always take a lot longer than they should.
You'd think with a computerized system like that, it would be instant.
But I guess it's not as quick as we gave them credit for.
Alright, this is a New York telephone commercial from years past.
This one is an advertisement for your own phone.
Yeah.
It was a unique idea back then to actually have your own phone
where you didn't have to share it with everybody else in the house.
So here's this unique concept presented to the public
for what may have been the very first time.
Here's the American breed for New York telephone.
If you get a ring on your telephone
And the call's for you, but the family's home
You've got to call 9-1-1
You've got to call 9-1-1
The call's for you, but the family's home
You climb up the stairs to your private room
You pick up the phone, now you're all alone
Be a lone phone baby, it's just for you
Be a lone phone baby, it's the thing to do
Be a lone phone
It's the phone of your own
At New York Telephone, we're hip to your privacy.
So now for just pennies a day,
you can groove with your own extension phone.
An alone phone. It comes in colors and styles
that will really turn you on. Like the new Trimline phone.
That's the one where the dial comes to you.
Get your very own phone today. An alone phone.
It's really out of sight.
It's the phone of your own
Yeah, the alone phone.
And that's something from
the New York Telephone vaults, I guess.
Well, that's it for our funny phone commercials.
Actually, there is one more phone commercial on here.
And I'm just going to play the very, very beginning of it
because we're not allowed to play any more of it on the radio.
However, if you come to the HULP conference in August, you can hear the whole thing.
So I'll just let you hear the very, very beginning of it.
New York City. It's still a hell of a town.
New York Telephone.
New York Telephone.
At New York Telephone, we know getting a malicious
or obscene phone call can really piss you off.
Okay, that's all we can play. It gets a lot raunchier than that.
But again, at the HULP conference this August,
we will have recordings like that and many more.
And that, incidentally, was the guy that did the commercials for New York Telephone.
Apparently, he was having an off day, so he just kind of made his own commercial.
And somehow, somehow it got out
and virtually every radio station got a copy of it.
That was back in the 70s.
Okay, it's 25 minutes to 11 o'clock. Let's go back to the phones.
How are we doing on the Internet, by the way? Do we have a fair number of people? About how many?
There's about 20 people online.
Okay, if you want to take part in the Internet and see it for the first time, maybe,
give a call to 212-888-8212
and log on as WBAI, password WBAI,
and then choose a nickname. You'll be in the Internet relay chat.
And anything you type on the screen will be sent to everybody else
who is calling for the WBAI channel.
And there's all kinds of other things you can do in this particular program.
By typing slash HELP, you'll get all the information.
But if you want to call us here right now and be on the radio,
212-279-3400. It's been a few weeks since we've been able to
have the chance to find out what's happening out there
as far as people's adventures with the phone companies
and various other technological hurdles and pitfalls.
Good evening. You're on the radio.
Okay. Good evening. You're on the radio.
Yes, I'm on. How are you doing?
I've been receiving these strange messages on my answering machine
from what I subsequently found out was a collection agency.
But it was sort of like a pre-recorded digital Terminator-like voice
You know, I haven't recorded it, actually.
Arnold Schwarzenegger, huh?
This guy called you?
It's not a guy. It's actually a collection agency with a digital voice.
I've heard that voice so many times in various things.
I can't believe they're making phone calls with it.
Well, actually, yeah.
But we meet at 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. eastern time
for a message concerning personal business.
The number again is 1-800-688...
And it calls, like, once a day.
It's like being stalked by this sort of electronic predator or something.
Well, I guess it's something we're all going to have to get used to
is voices like that calling us, maybe visiting us in person, too.
It's very scary to have a robot saying your name and your address
in an accusatory sort of way, you know?
You might be having fun with this, but if you don't like this...
Not at all.
If you don't like this kind of thing, you can call them and tell them to stop calling me, and they have to stop.
They cannot keep calling you if you tell them to stop calling you.
It's strange that now there are robots doing the service of the...
It used to be the heavies calling you up and going to break your arms,
but now they have these robots coming after you with laser guns.
A lot of people are afraid. When they hear a computer, they think it's official.
They think that there's no turning back. You can't fool the computer.
I don't know. That sounds like a fun computer to fool.
Kind of. It's a bit unnerving, though.
Do you have any idea what kind of personal business he wishes to discuss?
Yes. I called them back. It was some debt I accrued a while back.
You should have your computer call their computer.
Just have a recording like that. Or you could pretend to be a computer.
Have you heard other instances of harassment by digital voices over the phone?
Usually with sales pitches, what you get sometimes is you get a recording saying,
please hold on for an operator.
They actually have the nerve to put you on hold while they catch up to the calls they're making
and then try to sell you something.
I've actually had that happen. When you listen to your messages back,
there's a hold of three or four minutes that sometimes they don't hang up at all.
Then the recorded pitches as well. But they never sound like the one you play.
That's totally fake sounding.
Very scary, though.
It is pretty scary. Imagine a senior citizen that doesn't get out much
getting a recording like that.
They may think the invasion from Mars is well underway.
It's even worse because the invasion is coming right from inside our own system.
That's right.
It's impacting on us.
Thanks for letting us know about that. Keep us updated if any more robots call you.
Okay, I will. Thanks.
Everyone's out there recording phone calls. I think that's really cool.
Because there's all kinds of amazing things we come across in our day-to-day life.
Good evening. You're on the radio.
Okay.
You're speaking too loud, actually.
I'm sorry.
The other person was speaking too loud. You're speaking too loud.
Am I speaking too loud now?
That's fine. Perfect.
I'd like to know what I can do.
The telephone company has given out my unlisted number.
Who did they give it out to?
They gave it out to a lawyer.
There's an action being against me.
I have an unlisted number.
They got the number from the phone company because in the thing I got in the mail from the lawyer,
they had my telephone history wrong.
When I called the telephone company, they had my telephone history wrong.
In other words, the unlisted numbers and the listed numbers that I've had over the years.
So they had it wrong in exactly the same way.
Exactly.
So that's how you knew where the weak link was.
That's right.
Do you have any idea how this person got this information from the phone company?
How would I know?
I don't know if there is any particular enemy you might have, works at the phone company, or anything like that.
I don't think so.
But you have an unlisted phone number.
Yeah.
Did you always have an unlisted phone number?
Oh, for at least 20 years.
And before that, was it a listed phone number?
Yeah.
Before 1970, I had a regular number.
But around that time, I started having trouble with telephones and people calling that I didn't know.
And then getting robbed and that sort of thing.
Having my apartment broken into when I wasn't home for a couple of days.
So I started unlisting my phone.
Was it the same phone number?
No.
Okay.
Because a lot of people, they make the mistake of unlisting their phone number and not changing their number.
Oh, no.
I couldn't see doing that.
It is possible, however, if you have access to phone company computers, and a lot of people do,
for you to simply type in an address and be able to get an update as to what a particular phone number has changed into.
In fact, hackers of years ago would get so good at this that when somebody was changing their phone number,
they could tell them before the phone company could what their new number would be.
Ah.
Yeah.
So all this information is in a computer, and it's accessible if you know how to get it.
And if the phone company does not have adequate security, virtually anybody can get it.
Right.
I said to the phone company representative when I called, I said, you know,
I just paid recently to have this phone number a year ago, to have this phone number changed because I had this problem then.
And they changed it, and I got the call blocker and all that sort of stuff.
Uh-huh.
And they said, oh, well, and I said, I think you owe me to change this number again without charging me.
And they said, oh, no.
Well, they will do that if you're persistent, I can tell you that.
Uh-huh.
What you need to do, who did you speak to, just a representative?
Yeah, right.
Okay.
If you step up, call right away and ask to speak to a supervisor without any talking to anybody else.
They'll always put you through to a supervisor.
Tell them what you told me and say that the only way this information could have been obtained is through the phone company
and you're being harassed as a result.
And, you know, you don't want to have to take this any further.
You'd like to resolve this in a civil way.
I'm getting all kinds of crank calls in the middle of the night, even at 3 in the morning now from people.
I don't ask you for fictitious people.
Right.
Well, the thing is, I mean, if you are being harassed, you have the right to change your phone number,
and there's no charge to do that.
What is Star 57 all about?
I've looked everywhere in the book for an explanation of it, and I can't find one.
Okay.
Star 57 is the phone company's way of trying to make money off obnoxious, malicious phone calls.
They'll charge you $1.50 to dial Star 57 and supposedly trace the phone call and have it reported someplace.
However, they won't do anything until you do that at least 10 times and call them a few times to say,
What are you doing?
And they won't tell you ever who it is that's calling you.
However, the person that's calling you will find out that you're Star 57-ing them.
So it's a no-win situation for the consumer, and what you should do instead of dealing with Star 57
is go to the Annoyance Call Bureau, and their number should be in your phone book.
I have that.
It has to be, yeah.
I haven't done that yet, but I will.
They don't charge you anything to track down who's calling.
It's an 890 number or something, right?
Yeah, I think so, or it might be a 1-800 number.
And that's one way of finding out who it is that's calling.
Call the Annoyance Call Bureau.
Yeah, and they can change your phone number, too.
Okay, good.
All right, but that's no assurance that the same thing is not going to happen all over again.
No, I understand.
If they can get it once, they can get it again.
Exactly.
The system is inherently insecure.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't see why I should pay for it.
No, you shouldn't.
You absolutely should not.
All right, good luck.
Hey, you have a great show.
Can you give out the number for the other show of 2600 again?
Yes.
I'm interested in getting that publication.
Okay, I'll give it out right now.
Okay.
All right, thanks for calling.
Okay, thank you.
All right.
The phone number for that publication, the Hacker Quarterly, is 516-751-2600.
And, you know, I don't know if there's information on that machine right now
specifically telling people how to register for the HOPE Conference,
but there will be within 24 hours.
So if you're calling that to get that information and you don't hear it,
then it's probably because it has not been put up yet.
But it will be within 24 hours.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello?
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hi, my name is Steve Reese.
Hi, Steve.
Hello?
Yes, can I help you?
Yes.
I had gotten a bill about two months ago.
Somebody had used my phone line to call long-distance calls,
Guatemala or the Dominican Republic.
Boy, everybody's getting victimized tonight.
Amazing.
And the only thing that happened to that was suspicious
was that somebody had called my answering machine
and keyed in some touch-tone numbers.
Is that a possibility that they can actually key into my phone number that way?
Well, they're not keying into your phone number.
They're probably using some sort of a system that has no security whatsoever
that really doesn't have anything to do with your phone number.
There are all kinds of ways of billing something to a third number
and not having any verification take place
or calling an answering machine and saying,
press 1 to reject this call or just hang on the line to accept it.
Now, it's very easy for anybody to accept a call that way,
especially an answering machine.
The touch-tones might have just been a way that they got your attention
or something like that.
It may also have been somebody on the remote end
pressing touch-tones indicating that you wanted to accept the call,
and their system is so insecure
that it can't tell the difference between the person calling
and the person being called.
You see?
So, I mean, there are all kinds of possibilities,
but how were the calls billed?
What company?
Ninex.
They were third-number billed?
Excuse me?
How were they categorized?
Third number, collect?
No, not collect.
No, they were billed as if they were coming from my own home.
As if they were coming from your house.
No calling card, no third number, nothing like that?
No.
Okay, there are several ways that's possible.
Do you have call forwarding?
No, I don't.
Okay, that's one major way that could be done.
Another way is some sort of a crossed wire inside anywhere, really,
wherever wires come together.
You can have two people on the same phone line in two different locations,
and that does happen.
That can be done deliberately.
How many of these calls were there?
There were a number.
It was about $40 on the bill.
That's really not very much, actually, considering what could happen.
At least three.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but there were like three different countries.
Were they at the same basic time?
Yes, they were at the same basic time.
Same day?
Yes, I believe so.
Okay, it sounds to me like somebody patched into your line for one day.
It sounds like it might be an isolated instance.
I mean, you're still entitled to full credit on that.
You realize that?
Yeah.
Okay.
Box?
Did they have some access to the box?
There are all kinds of ways of getting access to phone lines.
If you look in the street, you'll see boxes that the linemen are constantly splicing wires in.
Do you live in an apartment building?
I do.
Okay.
Downstairs in the basement, probably, is a panel where all the phone lines come in.
And if you open that panel, lots of times they're left unlocked,
and just attach a clip set to it, you can pretty much roam around.
Not only listen in on people, you can make phone calls in anybody's lines.
That kind of thing happens all the time.
Yeah.
Just because it's coming into your apartment does not mean it's secure in any way.
And the phone company has this way of assuming that if it's made directly from your phone number,
that you had to authorize the call somehow, and that's just not true.
Right.
They didn't give me any problems as far as taking it off my bill,
but just to get an investigation going.
Yeah, sometimes they will.
I mean, if it happens a lot, they'll try and hint that you're responsible for it somehow.
They probably ask you if you have a cordless phone or something like that, right?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it is also a possibility, but it's far more likely somebody's actually clipping in.
But they couldn't just call my number and get through in that way, could they?
I don't think so, unless it's a different kind of...
I mean, I've seen occasions where 9X wires places wrong
and has a phone popping up in two different locations,
and if you call your own house, you'll hear somebody else answer.
In fact, several people in the room have indicated that's happening to them.
It does happen.
The phone company can wire things in weird ways,
and it's pretty scary when you call your house and somebody else answers,
or you get an answering machine that you don't have.
Yeah.
Things like that.
It has happened. It always happens.
But usually that occurs when you're getting a new phone line put in or having one taken out.
Yeah, that's not what's happened.
Okay, so basically they'd have to get into the boxes.
That's what I suspect.
There are other ways, but I suspect that's the easiest way.
So look for open boxes.
Yeah.
And that might be a hint as to where the calls are coming from.
Also, 9X can do this.
It'll look at phone bills from your apartment building
and see if those same phone numbers are called from there.
Uh-huh.
And that'll tell them at least where the person is approximately.
Okay, good.
All right, good luck.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Boy, a lot of people having robots calling and numbers showing up in their phone bill
and strange recordings everywhere.
Ah, let's see who else is out there.
Good evening. You're on the radio.
Hello.
How are you?
Yes. Okay, I was just listening to the previous call.
You know, there is one thing you can sometimes do if you have a problem like that persistently.
Which is?
They make devices that are normally used on COCOT lines.
Uh-huh.
They're a fraud protection device.
You put it in between your phone and the line,
and what happens is it's looking for voltage drop on either side.
If you clip in a test set on one side,
the side that your phone is hooked up to, everything's fine.
Right.
You clip it to the other side, you get a loud whistle on the line.
Okay.
Now, obviously, if the guy disconnects your pair of wires after his cut-in point,
it disables it, but most people aren't going to do that.
They'll just clip it to a panel,
and if they get a loud whistle in their ear when they pick up the line,
they're going to grab the next line.
That's true. That's true.
And those devices run about $50 to $100,
which is, the $50 ones are not that expensive.
They're line-powered, the better ones, by the way.
Yeah.
They work.
I used to work for a COCOT firm, and I can tell you,
we used to use them on lines that the guys were tapping,
well, not tapping, but accessing to make calls,
bypassing the phone.
And those things almost every time stopped the call
unless the guy disconnected the phone completely.
Uh-huh. Yeah.
So I bypassed it because the unit was in the phone case.
The thing with COCOTs is that those aren't payphone lines.
Those are regular business lines.
Regular lines, yeah.
But I think this same device could be used on any normal line.
Uh-huh.
There's no reason why it's restricted to that kind of a line.
If you took one of these little tiny boxes, they're very small,
put it inside your phone or behind your phone
or with a jack in your apartment or house.
Right.
Anybody clipping in outside the house is going to get a very annoying whistle in their ear,
and you won't be able to dial.
Right.
The only thing I could see going wrong with that
is if the phone company is doing some sort of a test on the line
and they can't get access to the phone line.
The only thing.
But beyond that, it does work.
Also, two other things.
Yeah.
One thing, I don't know if you're aware,
there's an alternate ANI number, or should I say ANAC number, for New York.
511?
Yes, you know about it.
Okay.
Yeah.
It doesn't work everywhere.
No, it does 958, though.
That's true.
I was trying this the other day where you dial 958 and you get a fast busy.
If you get that, try it about 50 more times and it will go through at some point.
If you're going to reorder, many times, enough times dialing will put it through.
Yeah.
Incidentally, you know why 511 works?
It's part of the generic package on the ESS switch.
That's true.
And typically, they're supposed to disable it,
but in many areas, they forgot to do it.
So that means that you'll get ANAC virtually anywhere in the country that has a 5ESS.
Theoretically, it could be enabled almost anywhere.
Unless their generic package was somewhat different than the one New York got,
which is conceivable.
But I know upstate New York uses 511.
Albany, New York uses 511 in some areas, I've just been told.
Uh-huh.
Is it just 5ESS or is it DMS as well?
I don't know.
I believe it.
I've seen it work in 5ESS.
I'm not sure about DMS-100.
It may well be in both, although it would be kind of funny if it's not the same thing.
But, you know, you never know.
Yeah.
Also, shifting topic.
Okay.
I was on the other week when they were doing the Internet offer.
Yeah.
I haven't gotten contacted.
Okay.
Did you pay by credit card?
Yes, I did.
Okay.
You will be one of the first.
What I'm going to do is call our accounts people tomorrow and get a full listing of
everybody that paid by credit card.
And then you'll be called and we'll set you up with an account on ESCAPE.
Okay.
Sorry for the delay.
I mean, it shouldn't really be taking this long, especially if you paid by credit card.
I spoke to the guy who runs the system.
Uh-huh.
And he said if I wanted to, I could go on with a new user account and have it switched over.
But, nah, it's okay.
I'll wait.
Yeah.
It didn't really matter.
I didn't mind waiting the extra time.
Right.
If anybody out there has paid, there's no reason why we shouldn't get you on this week.
If you haven't paid, then that certainly will expedite matters if you do.
And we're just trying to deal.
We got so many more people than we expected to get, so we're kind of overwhelmed.
But we do intend to get through to them all, especially the ones that paid this week.
By the way, I kind of got a laugh when you were dialing the stuff before because you
dialed that wrong number.
Uh-huh.
I knew you dialed it before you did.
You knew I dialed, uh...
You were dialing the number.
You missed a digit on the feel-fine thing or whatever it was.
You mean you can...
Not feel-fine.
One of the things you were dialing.
You dialed an extra digit.
Uh-huh.
I knew it before you even said it.
Can you decode touch tones by ear?
I have a decoder on the radio right now.
Uh-huh.
I know people that can do it by ear.
I almost could when I was younger and I was an active phone freak.
Uh-huh.
When I was a teen, late teens.
But I sort of got tired.
Not tired.
I was still interested.
I'm not as active with it.
I'm not as good as I used to be.
Uh-huh.
It was a day and age where you could hit a button, beep, and I'd know what it was.
Uh-huh.
But now I actually have a Motron decoder in line with a scanner,
which I'm using as the FM radio right now.
Uh-huh.
This is a broadband job, and I use a tape-out jack to drive directly into the decoder,
and I can get anything.
Amazing.
Works quite nicely.
Hey, you know, we're going to be having a COCOT panel at the
Hackers on Planet Earth conference, so you might be interested in that.
Possibly, because I live in New York anyway.
We are going to need some experts to speak on the COCOT industry as well.
I was with one of those companies for four years.
I just got out of them because the company was sold to another company,
and they laid everybody off.
Uh-huh.
Well, as far as most of it, I know what I'm talking about.
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like you do, and I appreciate the call.
Okay, then.
Thanks for calling.
Have a good evening.
A lot of interesting people out there tonight.
A lot of knowledge out there in the streets of New York.
Okay, let's see if we can fit in a couple more phone calls.
How are we doing on the net?
Still about 20 people?
Probably about 30 now.
30 people.
Wow.
Okay, those are all the people on IRC going through escape.com.
You can be part of that by calling up 212-888-8212.
I guess only for about another five minutes, though, right?
We're shutting down after the show?
Pretty soon thereafter.
Should we?
Yeah, pretty soon thereafter.
Pretty soon.
Okay.
And what you do is you log in as WBAI, pass with WBAI,
choose a unique nickname, and you'll be talking to everybody in the world
that happens to be patched into the WBAI channel.
And you can do that from, well, let's say you were in Norway, for instance,
and you were able to run IRC.
All you'd have to do is join the WBAI channel from there,
and you'd be talking to people at WBAI here.
It's that simple.
And that's what we're trying to do.
We're trying to open up the Internet to as many people as possible.
We're doing it here at BAI.
We're going to be doing it at Hope later this year,
and hopefully people will be a part of this technological progress,
which is all over the place at a good price, too, as cheap as possible.
212-279-3400 is our phone number here.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Hello, Emmanuel?
Yes.
How are you doing?
I'm glad I got you.
I pledged, and let me turn this radio down.
I pledged, and I want to join ESCAPE.
Okay.
But I've got some problems.
I was wondering if you can give me a phone number
I can reach either you or ESCAPE.
Okay.
I'll give you the ESCAPE voice number,
which you can call between 11 and 7 in the daytime.
11 and 7 in the day?
Yeah.
It's 212-888-8780.
8780.
Right.
If you have any questions about the system.
Okay.
So I leave a message, and they get back to me?
There should be somebody there between those hours.
Oh, somebody live?
Yeah, a live person,
and you should be able to get whatever questions you have answered.
888-8780?
Right.
Okay.
Well, that should solve things.
Okay.
If it doesn't, give us a call back.
Okay.
All right?
All right.
Thanks for calling.
Thanks for having me.
And I think we have time for one more phone call.
Good evening.
You're on.
Yes, I'm calling to sound an alarm
that something is happening in Italy right now.
They have a computer hacker crackdown.
Yeah, the Fidonet seizures.
Is that what you're calling about?
Well, I just heard that they're busting people, you know,
for having bulletin boards and things like that.
Basically what happened there is somebody was suspected of software piracy,
and the Italian authorities said,
okay, here's a list of bulletin boards, bust them all,
and they basically had a Fidonet list of all the boards in Italy.
So, yeah, it was a massive raid.
It's a little worse than the kinds of things that happen here.
Right, and if anything can happen anywhere else,
we have to be alarmed that they could possibly try to pull on us here,
you know, anywhere in the world.
Do you have any updates as to what is going on with that?
No, but I'm calling Italy tomorrow,
and I can ask what's exactly happening.
So I'm just over the telephone.
This isn't through a computer hookup or anything.
Do you know a system operator over there?
Well, I know some people in Milan,
but I'm afraid to say names, say who they are right now,
just because, you know, fear of the police.
Right, yeah, it's not a unique fear.
Well, if you find out anything of interest,
please let us know, and we'll be looking too.
Sure.
Okay, thanks for calling.
All right, bye-bye.
And thanks to everybody who called in,
and also everybody who participated with the Internet demo.
And we'll be back next week with yet another show,
and who knows, maybe a special guest will pop in,
and we'll be talking about some other developing items as well.
This is Emanuel Goldstein.
I've been with you for the past hour,
and as I say, we'll be back again next week.
Stay tuned for a rebroadcast of the evening news.
This is WBAI-New York.
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But that's right.
You know they're stupid.
Good evening.
In the news tonight, the U.S. and Jamaica strike a deal
to use Jamaica as a processing site for Haitian refugees.
A U.N. report says world peace can be ensured by more aid
and fewer arms sales.
And in New York, another cop pleads guilty to corruption
while residents of Harlem cry foul over the smells
from a local sewage treatment plant.
With these and other stories, I'm Jose Santiago in New York
with Verna Avery-Brown in Washington,
and this is the news for Wednesday, June 1st, 1994.
First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
In Haiti, the military regime continues to tighten its grip
against its opponents.
Roosevelt Jean-Francois has more from Port-au-Prince.
The Haitian Episcopal Conference called today for a meeting
between the protagonist of the Haitian crisis
to put an end to the situation.
The Haitian bishops urged General Raoul Cedras
and exiled President Jean-Bertrand Aristide
to have a frank and courageous dialogue
to avoid the military intervention.
As for today, a meeting at the parliament
called by President Aristide to discuss the current situation.
Aristide lawmakers decided to postpone that meeting
for security reasons.
Meanwhile, the de facto government decided to freeze
the assets of Malvo government in the central bank.
The government also decided that ministers of Malvo government
are not allowed to leave the country.
The military-backed government is threatening to arrest
anyone who called for foreign intervention.
Roosevelt Jean-Francois, Pacifica Network News in Port-au-Prince.
In Seattle, a federal judge has ordered the army
to reinstate a highly decorated nurse
who'd been forced out of the National Guard
because she acknowledged she was a lesbian.
Under today's ruling, Colonel Margaret Cammermeyer
is entitled to reinstatement
and any record of her sexual orientation
must be removed from National Guard files.
The National Right to Life Committee
has launched a boycott of companies
associated with the abortion pill RU-486
that targets Germany's host, A.G.,
and France's Roussel-Euclod.
This despite the companies giving up U.S. patent rights
for RU-486 to the New York-based Population Council
National Right to Life says
a list of the products to be boycotted will...