♪♪
And a very good evening to one and all.
This is Emanuel Goldstein with Off the Hook,
the program about communications
and the fun that can be had with communications,
the chaos that can be had without communications.
I think maybe we'll prove that tonight,
some of the good, some of the bad,
and some of the fun that can happen in between.
All right, this is going to be a very informative program.
It's also going to be something
that you can participate in directly,
either by talking to us live on the radio
or by hooking into the internet,
as we've been doing the last few weeks
here on this particular station.
A rather unique way of presenting radio
because you can not only be logged
into our particular channel on the internet relay chat,
but you can also be listening to the radio
and talking out on the telephone,
all at the same time.
Oh, it's an incredible amount of fun.
All right, if you're interested,
we're going to be taking a lot of phone calls tonight
to make up for all the time.
So we haven't had time to take all these phone calls.
And of course, our number here is 212-279-3400.
And you know, I called the radio station today
and nobody answered.
And it rang for a very, very long time.
And it must have been at least five minutes.
So I don't know how long it rings
before it actually disconnects you.
But for me, it rang seemingly forever.
So maybe you won't be disconnected
if we don't pick up right away.
You know, maybe you won't be.
Maybe they changed it.
I don't know.
Anything is possible.
So that's our phone number if you want to get through to us,
212-279-3400.
But before we do that, the importance of communications.
It's something that is extremely relevant here in the 1990s
with the communications revolution at our throats.
You don't talk to somebody, all kinds of misunderstandings
abound, and all kinds of hostilities exist.
It's a sad thing.
And there's no excuse for it in this day and age.
So to help settle things a bit, we're
going to try and establish some communications.
It's only right.
Through AT&T.
At least, I sure hope so.
AT&T, how may I help you?
Hi, is this AT&T?
Can you hear me?
OK, I need to reach information.
I need the number for Kim Il-sung in Pyongyang, North
Korea, please.
Korea, OK, one moment for that overseas information.
I need to speak to him.
Thank you.
Settle this once and for all.
Oh, dear.
One moment.
Sounds like all lines engaged there.
Directory, what country, please?
Yes, Korea, calling from 212.
Excuse me, operator, 279-3407.
9-1-1, bill into that number.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Are you calling for a business or residence in Korea, please?
This is North Korea, and I'm trying
to reach Kim Il-sung's residence.
There is no phone service to North Korea.
Well, no, I was watching CNN before,
and they were using telephones.
There are telephones in North Korea.
Unfortunately, the United States does not have telephone
service to North Korea.
How is that possible?
Don't all phone lines interconnect somehow?
The country of North Korea will not
give us phone service into their country.
Until two years ago, we had no phone service to Vietnam.
Really?
And about four years ago, we finally
got phone service to Albania.
So countries that we don't have diplomatic relations with
don't like to give us phone service into their country.
That's unbelievable that they actually, they
don't want to talk to us at all, huh?
That's correct.
It's not from our end.
It's from their end?
From their end, yes.
It's been blocked.
How will they tell us when they want
us to communicate with them if they
don't have phones to call us?
They can call into the United States.
Oh, they can call us, but we can't call them?
Correct.
Oh, OK.
All right, so I guess we'll just wait for them to call us.
OK, thanks for your help.
You're welcome.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Well, I guess this isn't as easy as I
thought it was going to be.
That's something, isn't it?
They actually don't want us calling.
Imagine if you could do that, if you could cut yourself off
from the whole rest of the world or from any particular country
and say, you cannot call us.
We can only call you.
Well, maybe if some enterprising person out there
figures out a way to get phone service into North Korea,
this whole crisis can be behind us.
Then again, maybe the whole crisis
could mushroom into a real crisis
if we start calling random numbers in North Korea.
Who knows?
No phone service there at all.
I don't know if there's any other countries that
are like that, but North Korea, I believe, is the only one left.
Vietnam, as the operator said, surprisingly well-informed
operator, too.
Vietnam has phone service now from the United States.
Albania, a couple of years ago, it
was a big deal trying to call Albania several years ago.
You just couldn't do it.
There might be a couple other countries left,
but I'm not sure what they are or where they are.
It's a bit of fun, though, to try and call North Korea
and confuse everybody along the way.
OK, speaking of confusion, Dunkin' Donuts,
always a confusing place to go to,
but did you know that Dunkin' Donuts has listening equipment?
Did you know that?
That's right, they all can listen
to whatever it is you say, and they can actually pick out
pieces of your conversation.
Now, apparently, this is to deter robbery.
Apparently, they feel they can identify people's voices
or what it is they plan to do and listen in
on their customers.
Small talk, that kind of thing.
Anybody who works in a Dunkin' Donuts,
please give us a call.
We'd like to know more about this.
Big brother hits you in the strangest places.
Yeah, OK, and the Los Angeles City Library system
is sending out overdue notices for books
that have been checked out before the January 17
earthquake.
The only problem is that readers have
been told that they can hang on to their books
until the damaged branches reopen.
Now, the problem arose because the computer system used
to generate the notices does not allow notices
to be selectively disabled based on the branch at which the book
was originally checked out.
The only way to stop the notices would
be to stop sending notices for all branches,
but many branches remain open.
And of course, there are always delinquent readers.
According to Robert Reagan, that's right,
Robert Reagan, a library spokesman,
the system is due to be replaced soon, sometime
after the next earthquake probably.
Although the article does not state this explicitly,
there is an implication that the new system
will support better per-branch control.
Apparently, this is from the Risks Digest,
the original programmers designing an integrated system
can be forgiven for failing to predict the day when
their customers would want to shut down only half of it based
on unforeseen criteria.
Furthermore, it is easy to imagine
an integrated manual system with the same fault, no pun intended.
Nevertheless, readers are confused
and the library is embarrassed.
It's a minor, though amusing, footnote to a major disaster.
OK, those of you who want to get onto the net,
give a call to 212-888-8212 if you can get through,
because there are a lot of BAI listeners I know
that are trying to get in.
Log in as WBAI, password WBAI.
And select a user ID.
Select a user ID that you wish to be known as.
And you'll be connected to a whole bunch of other people
on the WBAI channel in the internet relay chat,
which allows you to communicate with anybody around the world.
And today, we're going to take that one step further.
We're not going to stay in the WBAI room, not for long anyway.
We encourage you to call in now, become part of it,
get to know people in there.
And then we're going to be taking a field trip a little bit
later on and journeying around the internet.
So what we're going to do is, I have a list here of about,
oh, I don't know, maybe 1,000 different channels
on the internet relay chat.
I'm going to hand this out to various people in here.
And these people are going to circle the ones
that they feel we should visit.
And get back to us later, and then we'll go to those places.
Now you'll have to find your own pen, I'm sorry.
I can't do everything around here.
You could cut them out, I suppose,
and just sort of hand me the little pieces of paper.
While you're doing that, there's one other thing
I'd like to check out here.
I just bought a MetroCard.
Just did it maybe half an hour ago.
Went to the 34th Street station and asked the woman
there for a $5 MetroCard.
And the poor lady panicked.
Apparently, she had never done this before.
She just sort of gave me a glassy-eyed stare.
And the thing is, she was saying something.
But in a train station, you can't really
hear what the people behind those booths are saying.
So she was saying something, and I was just
sort of smiling and nodding.
And she was saying all kinds of things.
It looked like she was kind of muttering,
because she was typing on this keyboard.
And I watched what she was doing.
And apparently, she'd never done this before,
because she was hitting a key, and then hitting another key
on the other side of the keyboard,
and then going back to the first one.
And it looked like she was repeating the same task
over and over again about 50 times.
Of course, by this time, a line had formed.
And I suddenly realized that this was not
exactly the nice, quick, easy way
to go about your mass transit affairs.
And I apologized to the people around me.
But there was absolutely nothing I could do at this point.
The wheels of progress were already in motion.
But I watched.
Eventually, when she picked up the card,
there was a stack of cards next to a stack
of quarters on the table.
And she basically took it from that single stack.
And eventually, after typing in all the various things,
I don't know if she just had to type in two keystrokes,
or she had to type in 50.
She wound up typing in 50, but she
might have made a lot of mistakes.
She then ran the card through.
And it wrote something on it, apparently.
And she handed it to me.
Now, I paid particular attention to the card.
And I realized at that point that the numbers
that are printed on the card are printed first.
They don't get printed at the same time
that they make up the card for you.
Those numbers are already there.
The expiration date and the account number,
they're already on the card.
So those are not created at the time
the card is quote, unquote, made for you.
Now, what we're going to do now is call up the MetroCard people
and see what they can tell us about the card that we have.
Can they tell us the history of it?
Can they tell us where it was used last?
What can they do?
Let's find out.
We'll also see how long it takes them to do this.
Good evening, MetroCard customer service.
Richard, can I help you?
Yes, hi.
I was hoping you could help me.
I have this card here, and I don't know what its value is.
Can you help me with that?
Yes.
If you turn the card around, there's a serial number.
It starts with 0017.
OK, yes, it does.
00174817.
And I'm going to call you back.
OK.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
0017215.
215?
Yeah.
All right, could you hold on one second?
Sure, no problem.
I'll have to look that up for you.
One second.
OK.
Yes.
See, the problem with these cards
is they don't print out the value on them.
So you don't really know when you have a card in your hand
how much it's actually worth.
There are these little numbers here.
And actually, I have an expiration date
of August 31, 1995, and another number next to that of 073292.
I wonder what that number means.
Wow.
Well, anyway, if you want to get this information,
you can call 1-800-METROCARD.
And in New York City, 212-638-7622.
I don't think that spells anything.
How are we doing with the list over there?
Good there?
OK.
Those of you on the net, how many people are on the net
right now?
Five.
Five?
Five.
Five?
Oh.
I think interest in the net is dying down, is it?
Well, 212-888-8212 to get access to the net.
Log in as WBAI, password WBAI, and choose a username.
If you want to be on the phone, 212-279-3400.
Sorry, our MetroCard person's still there.
Oh, she's off looking it up somewhere.
OK.
This isn't the kind of thing you can do, I guess,
right at the phone.
You have to go into a back room someplace
and go through cards or paper tape or something like that.
Yeah, this is great having to, uh.
I'll be right with you.
I'm just waiting on the computer to change.
OK, no problem.
Can you tell me what the other number means?
Hello?
Oh, I'm on hold.
OK.
I'm on hold, which means she cannot hear me right now,
I don't think.
I think that's how it works.
All right, I'm on hold.
The problem is if I'm talking when she comes back,
I won't hear her because this is like a one-way phone
type of deal, which is why when you listen to WBAI,
people never talk at the same time,
or they always talk at the same time, actually,
and not hear each other.
All right.
Looking up my card.
Zip, zip.
Nice, quick, speedy way of doing it.
OK, we have a full switchboard.
We'll be getting to that in just a moment.
212-279-3400.
This is off the hook, where we answer questions
and solve problems and create problems
and ask questions of the communications age.
Ah.
OK, I've looked it up for you.
That card doesn't have any value at all.
It doesn't?
No.
Did you buy the card today?
Yes.
OK, if you bought it today, it might not
show on the computer system until tomorrow.
It may not hit until tomorrow.
OK.
What I have here at the center, it's not showing up.
But where did you buy it, at a subway station?
Yeah.
OK, then it's not going to hit until tomorrow.
I see, OK.
Go back to any subway station that's
fully equipped with MetroCard, and you
run it through the reader in front of the token booth.
Right.
It will show value.
But when you call us in the same day that you receive the card,
it won't show anything until the next day.
I see.
Can you tell me what the other six-digit number means?
The other six, that's a batch number.
They're all in certain numbers in a sequence,
and then in a batch.
I see.
Up together.
And then you should also have an expiration date on the back.
That's right.
Up to maybe a year or more.
Yeah.
OK, so I have to use it by then.
Right, right.
But when you buy a card, always check it.
After the token booth clerk gives you the card,
you make your exchange or your transaction,
there is a reader in front of the token booth.
And check it there.
Make sure the value is correctly put on
before you leave the token booth.
OK, that's a good idea.
OK.
OK, I'll do that then.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Well, that was pretty helpful, I think.
Although my card is worth nothing, apparently.
I will check this out after the show
and make sure my card is worth something.
Because if it's worth nothing, it's
like our caller from last week who had his card mysteriously
wiped out overnight.
But we have learned a couple of things here.
We've learned that the actual account number
is the long 10-digit number on the bottom.
And the six-digit number is what's known as a batch number.
And again, let me point out that at the HOPE conference
in August, we will have a team of people
whose sole purpose between now and then
will be to figure this system out
and let us all know exactly how it works
and if it has any weaknesses.
If you're interested in registering for HOPE
on the internet, send mail to info at hope.net.
That's I-N-F-O at hope, H-O-P-E dot net, N-E-T.
And if you want registration information on the telephone,
you can call 516-751-2600.
HOPE conference will be hackers on planet Earth.
It's the first US Hacker Congress
in the spirit of the Dutch Hacker
Congresses and German Hacker Congresses
that have been going on for years, where
we have hundreds, if not thousands, of people show up
and trade information, have seminars, speakers, lectures,
that kind of thing.
It's going to be interesting.
And of course, we'll also have a giant ethernet
set up where people can bring their computers
and tie into it and be part of the internet,
all kinds of amazing things like that.
OK, let's take a phone call, and then we'll
start our field trip on the internet at some point.
We have more than five people now?
Let me get you an exact number.
Yeah, give me an exact number, because I sort of would like to.
Slowly, people are coming in.
OK, people, don't be shy.
Don't be shy, because the net is there for you
to use 24 hours a day.
Of course, this particular system
is only here between the hours of 10 and 11
on Wednesdays, where you can become part of Internet Relay
Chat and just sort of explore the system from there.
That's only a very, very small fraction of what
the internet is all about, though.
OK, 212-279-3400.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hi, Emanuel, glad to be the first caller tonight.
What an annoying process it is to call you using AT&T,
because now I get a prompt after about 10 rings saying,
your party is not answering.
To leave a message for a charge, use AT&T message service.
Press pound 1-2-3 now.
Wow, so that's their goal, then, by disconnecting you,
is that you can spend more money and leave a message for us.
Well, they don't disconnect me.
Then I go back, after the prompt, back to rings,
until I guess BAI's phones will cut you off.
But very, very annoying.
Well, actually, BAI phones do not cut you off.
It might be 9x that does that.
OK, well, usually after about 30 or 40 rings,
I guess it would cut off.
So you say, after about 10 rings.
It goes back to ringing after it gives you that.
10 rings, you get that prompt saying,
using AT&T message service, press pound 1-2-3 now.
And they don't tell you how much the charge is.
So I was thinking about leaving you a message,
but it could cost me a fortune, so I didn't.
Well, they're supposed to tell you how much it costs.
Well, they're not.
So that was one thing that was annoying.
Last week, you were talking about the new uses for 555
besides information, and the uses of 555 in films
as the imaginary zip code for Filmland.
And one thing I thought was kind of interesting,
you'll notice, like a stylized use of 555 in films
to make it not as apparent, because people
are aware of that, they'll have it as JL5.
So my number is JL5, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Or it'll be on a, perhaps, like a business truck
or something like that, where they have the address
and phone number on it, you'll see JL5.
Except nobody uses letters in their phone numbers anymore.
I know, so it makes it even more apparent.
They're trying to disguise it and bringing even more attention
to it, at least for me.
I think it would make more sense,
and I don't think you could be held legally responsible
for this if you did it, but just make some weird exchanges,
like, say, 9-5-0.
I mean, nobody has a number in the 9-5-0 exchange.
Nobody has a number in the 4-1-1 exchange
or something like that, yet it could look believable
if they had that on a film or on a TV show.
Yeah, it's a good idea.
I want to get your feedback on the New York Times
Sunday Magazine cover story that ran last week on cypherpunks.
I have not read that yet.
I've seen it, but I have not read it.
Have you read it?
I dipped into it, but I haven't finished it yet.
I wanted to...
Well, next week, then, we'll get your beat on it, perhaps.
Okay, it's interesting that it's being covered.
Who wrote the article, do you know?
A guy who had written a book.
I forget his name, but his book was, like,
Hackers, like, the new saviors of our generation,
something along those lines.
Oh, Stephen Levy, okay.
Stephen Levy, yeah.
He's a prominent author in New York City.
Well, good. Keep up the great work.
We love listening to you.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Bye now.
2-1-2, 2-7-9, 3-4-100.
And you fellas have some places we should be going?
All right, let's...
On the Internet, on Internet Relay Chat,
we have different locations, different rooms,
different channels, places where people talk
about certain topics.
You have to show it to me,
because I may not approve of your choices.
Some of them are kind of risque, if you know what I mean.
Let me, uh...
Just give me a sheet, anything.
Okay.
There's, uh...
Oh, here we go.
Um...
These are foreign languages.
Yeah, because, you know, people are all languages.
Well, well, well. Okay.
I don't know how many people are speaking Spanish right now
on our particular system, but that's, um...
Iceland, okay.
Everybody, this is what we're going to do.
We're all going to voyage over to the Iceland channel.
I don't know what's going on over there.
But to do that, to do that,
simply type on your keyboard right now,
slash, regular slash, join, J-O-I-N,
space, pound sign, Iceland, I-C-E-L-A-N-D.
All right, everybody from WBAI and the WBAI channel,
we're all going over to the Iceland channel now.
They're going to be surprised when about, what,
ten of us show up all at once.
Let's introduce ourselves.
Let's say that we're here from WBAI.
Don't be frightened.
And, yeah, be very nice to them
and keep us updated as to what's going on there.
Good evening. You're on the radio.
Oh, I wondered, Emanuel?
Yes, go ahead.
In the last Washington Post,
it's airwaves to the highest bidder.
And it's once free to anyone who wanted a radio license.
Soon it will be sold at auction.
Federal Communication Commission
hopes a sale of 7,000 licenses will create a new industry,
cut the federal deficit,
and spur the competition for the cellular telephone market.
What do you know about this?
This is part of a new range of frequencies
that the government is opening up
for personal communication services,
including cellular phones.
Supposedly, this is going to make cellular phones
drop in price dramatically.
And it may finally be what gets me to get a cellular phone,
because right now cellular phones are outrageously priced.
They're priced for businessmen.
But this is supposedly going to widen the range,
from which you can receive calls and the service options,
and dramatically cut down on the cost.
Is the public sale the most important
since the Louisiana Purchase?
Well, I don't know about that.
It's kind of hard to compare it to various things of the past.
But it is significant, I'd say.
Okay, thank you.
Thanks for letting us know.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Yes, hi. Sal Perovic speaking.
I had a question about the telephone.
Sal Perovic speaking.
I had a question.
Let me lower the radio.
Sorry.
Oh, I'm on the air now.
Okay, yeah, my question is...
I just went to lower the radio.
Sal Perovic here, by the way,
is regarding GMRS licenses
and its application status right now.
This is a type of an application
that people use, you know,
their own telephone equipment
and maybe rent repeaters
and possibly, hopefully even satellites
to use their own personal telephones
in a cellular type manner
without having to go through these big companies
that are overcharging us.
And do you know anything about that at all?
Or the last caller was mentioning something
about some federal licenses that are...
Well, these would go to companies again.
They might be different companies.
They might be the same companies.
But it's not something where individuals
would be taking charge of it, I don't think.
What you're talking about sounds like something
a bit more on an individual level.
Yeah, that's true.
Speaking to a lot of my friends
who are into two-meter radios,
mention it a lot, admire it a lot,
although they notice some changes being made,
strickening people from discussing business
over what's considered personal air channel.
Let's see, try to familiarize the listeners with this.
The system is called GMRS, and they can get information.
I believe they're on Lafayette Street.
I don't know the exact door number,
but the FCC should have applications there.
For somebody that's enthusiastic enough
to purchase the equipment,
they can utilize this system.
Okay.
Just wondering if you might have some insight
into that at all.
Actually, this is the first I've heard of it.
Any outlook?
Can you foresee anything in the future
where individuals can start doing something like this?
I'm sorry, what was the question?
Do you have any insight to add on to this?
Do you know anything about private cellular phone systems?
I mean, do these big telephone companies,
whose names I'm not going to mention,
but do they hold a monopoly over how far one can talk?
Well, like Metro 1 and 9X, you mean.
Yeah, okay, New Jersey Bell.
Well, basically, they do right now.
There are only, I think, two companies in New York
that offer cellular access,
and it's because of the limited number of frequencies.
Perhaps when they open up these new frequencies,
I'm not quite sure how many new ones there are,
but perhaps there will be enough
so that more and more companies,
smaller companies, can get involved.
There'll be more competition
and more imaginative use of the technology.
That's really the only way
that people are going to be served in the end.
Right, so now somewhere along the future,
you see that there will be some competition.
If there's a demand for it.
There has to be a demand for it.
If people are satisfied with the way it is now,
there won't be any changes.
So what would you suggest, say, to the listeners?
Send some letters into the federal government or the FCC?
Well, for the most part, don't use cellular phones.
If they continue to be this expensive...
I definitely don't use them.
I mean, I'm satisfied with the type of communications
I'm using now.
APS system, which is linked to my answering machine
and pager and, you know, calling card and et cetera.
But, geez, I don't know, if there's somebody
we could let know that we don't like what's going on,
I think, I guess it should be the FCC, right?
Probably, yeah.
That's probably the agency that oversees it the most
on a national level.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, because, I mean, I don't know who else.
I hope that some of these big companies are listening
and, you know, lower your prices, please.
Yeah, it would be nice, because right now
they're kind of geared towards businesses, as I said,
and businesses pay much higher rates
than individuals are willing to pay.
They probably also get group plans
and things of that sort and whatnot and free air time.
But I think that the cellular companies out there
can do much, much better.
And there's a large market out there,
which, you know, I mean, that they know that they can grab,
just like what they did with pagers going back years ago.
They were also an expensive item at one time,
if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, everything was expensive at one point,
things that are now affordable.
So...
Yeah, now they're trying to make it look affordable
and I think they're hanging on to see
how much more they can grab and what kind of contracts,
long-term contracts they can get
these current customers to sign.
But it's like, to give you a short example,
I had to pay a $40 membership going back 10 years ago
for a video club.
Now, that same video club has free membership.
Well, that's true.
Simply because there's so much competition around it now.
I mean, you know, so maybe this is what's being done.
Who knows? I can't really say.
But I mean, I look forward to, you know,
the government helping us in finding a solution
because, I mean, a telephone is a necessity.
You know, you're out in the middle of nowhere
and someone could be ill, et cetera, et cetera,
and need to get help right away
and pay phones aren't that easily accessible.
So if, uh, I think they see the, uh, you know,
the federal government, including the companies that own...
Other than individuals wanting to chit-chat
for no reason at all and waste their time and frequencies,
we have to look at the more important aspect, I think.
Okay. Listen, thanks for calling.
Thank you very much, and keep up the good work, fellas.
Okay, take care.
Bye.
Listening to Off The Hook.
212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
And again, if you want to be on the net,
we're, um, we're tying into the Internet right now
at, uh, 212-888-8212.
Uh, you automatically, if you type WBAI
and use a password WBAI,
you'll be tied into the Internet relay chat,
which has people all over the, um,
all over the planet tied in at the very second
that you happen to call.
Uh, it will ask you for a username.
You have to pick, uh, some sort of a unique username
no more than nine characters long.
It can be your name.
If it's not already taken by somebody on the planet,
then, uh, then you'll actually, uh, have access to it.
Okay, and we have everybody in the Iceland channel right now.
Uh, I don't know why we decided to join the Iceland channel,
uh, but these are all, uh, WBAI people.
And, um, I'm gonna ask, uh, on this particular channel,
is there anyone here actually from Iceland?
And WBAI people, please do not answer.
I want to see if anyone besides us is on here.
Uh, no, no, I'm getting all no's here.
It's the land of ice.
Yes, that is, uh, that is for sure.
Uh, well, I can look at the, um, at the usernames
and see who is, uh,
if anybody from Iceland is actually on there.
And, you know, I don't see a single person from Iceland.
Not at all.
Oh, you know what? I think I did just see somebody from Iceland.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
That's, uh, um, okay.
I think I saw a .is.
All right, that's kind of interesting
if somebody actually is coming on from Iceland somehow.
Um, yeah, there we go.
This person, Oli, O-L-I, is, uh, actually from Iceland.
Fascinating, okay.
Uh, we're going to move to another, another channel.
Uh, there's a list of, uh, places we should go.
Uh, we're gonna be moving to another place real, real soon now.
We're all on the Iceland channel, though.
Uh, okay.
Uh, I understand some people are actually, um,
a bit perturbed that we've taken over the Iceland channel.
Well, it's only a temporary occupation.
We're going to, uh, we're going to be moving out of there real soon.
Um, let's see.
How about we go to Canada?
Okay, everybody, we're going to be, uh, we're leaving Iceland now.
I'm going to type a message to everybody.
We're leaving Iceland now.
Let us go to the Canada channel.
Everybody type slash join, pound sign, Canada.
Okay, and everybody is now arriving in, uh, in Canada,
where, uh, there were about, uh, 13 people before us.
And now, um, now there's a whole lot of people
moving from one channel to the next.
Okay, yes, we're following me around like a dog,
as one person says.
That's, that's certainly true.
Oh, no, no, no, don't do that, don't do that.
Don't, don't, don't boast about the Rangers
when you're in the Canada channel.
Oh, what have I done?
Okay, we're going to, we're going to go back
to some phone calls now.
Uh, let's, um, let's try and be friendly
to our neighbors to the north, um, as we visit their channel.
Again, if you're just logging in and you're in the WBAI channel,
you have to leave that channel by typing
slash join, space, pound sign, Canada.
And, um, you'll be in the Canadian channel
or a channel that talks about Canada.
I'm not quite sure what they're doing up there.
But, um, I'll just give greetings to everybody in Canada.
Hello to everyone in Canada.
That way I can say that I was, uh, friendly.
All right, let's go back to the phones.
Good evening, you're on the radio.
Yes, hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Yes, um, you mentioned the Tessera card
and, um, you described it or someone there in WBAI
described it as an ominous, um, word
that was given by some Roman about his slaves.
Well, from what I know, Tessera is a piece of a mosaic,
a glass, and that's kind of like, um,
just like we're all pieces of glass,
like David Dinkins said, the beautiful mosaic.
Yeah, I imagine that, uh, they would pick something
with a nice-sounding name rather than something,
you know, called evil, horrible stuff.
You've been, um, on WBAI, it's been characterized
as this, you know, uh, Roman, um, word
that, no, a Roman slave owner used to, um,
a Roman emperor used to describe his slaves
and giving it like an ominous-sounding,
you know, sounding, you know, theme, and it's not, um...
Actually, I'm not sure we actually did that.
Are you referring to last week's show?
Maybe, uh, maybe Brock Meeks referred to it that way.
No, quickly, um, Israel, it was in Wall Street Journal,
Israel has given the, um, settler, um, um,
franchise to a consortium, and they, guess what?
They have the lowest rates in the world.
You know how much it is?
Can you guess?
Uh, no.
Well, in the United States, it's from around,
average cost about $60, 60 cents a minute.
There, it's running about 4 cents.
4 cents.
Yeah, it was in Wall Street Journal, um, last week.
They gave the, um, franchise to, um, a group of people.
They denied, I think it was, um, McCall Cellular.
It's a consortium of about four companies,
but that doesn't include the charge.
It comes up to around 9, uh, 10 cents, actually, a minute,
with all the, the, uh, fees, but, um,
it's the lowest in the world, and it's, um,
it's, it's come up to 9 or 10 cents a minute,
and, um, it's shattering, it's, you know,
causing a lot of mayhem all over the world,
because really, it should be 9 or 10 cents a minute,
and, um, it's being subsidized, um,
but they're going to keep it like that.
It's going to be raised for a period of, uh, four years,
but maybe like 3 cents a minute, 4 cents a minute,
and, uh, it should come up to about, in three or four years,
to about, uh, let's say about 16 cents, 17 cents a minute.
I don't know if you know about that.
No, I didn't. I didn't, actually.
Yes. Um, so what else can I contribute?
Um, how do I get rid of the fact that when I call WBI,
that it cuts off a certain amount of rings?
Well, it's not WBI. That's, that's...
No, I know. It's a telephone company.
Uh, I don't know of a way to do that yet.
The phone company can fix this with a keystroke, uh, but...
Bove?
No, they won't, but they can.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I know of certain situations where this does not happen.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and as the previous caller said,
they, um, the various phone companies
like to be able to cut, uh, ringing phones off
because they can then, uh, get you to spend more money
in some other way.
Right. And last but not least,
what can I do as an antisocial thing
to get back at a telephone company?
Is there anything I can do that's legal
that will drive them crazy?
Uh, antisocial thing.
Well, there's, there's all kinds of things you can do.
You can pay your phone bill one cent short.
That drives them crazy.
Uh-huh.
That's driving them crazy.
Their computers can handle it, but, uh...
Right.
Uh, there's all kinds of, um, of, of, of things, uh,
ways of, of making them, uh, regret
that they ever got into the phone business.
But, uh, I think the best thing you can do...
Uh-huh.
...is, um, is, is just keep alert to what they're doing.
Uh-huh.
And let people know when they're,
when they're ripping you off or, or not being honest.
Boy, I want one quick question.
Now, if you have a business,
you pay more for the phone usage.
I can never figure that out if you're...
Yeah, and, you know, they say...
Yeah.
...they, they say that you're, uh,
the businesses are subsidizing the, the residences.
That's nonsense.
Yeah, I, I don't, I don't really buy that
because what that, what I see in that is a veiled threat
that, well, one day, you know,
if the businesses stop subsidizing the residences,
the residences will pay as much as the businesses.
Yeah.
And it's, it's absurd.
For one thing, businesses don't get untimed, uh, service.
They have to pay for each and every minute...
Right.
...which makes certain things prohibitive for businesses.
And, and non-profit organizations
don't get any kind of a break.
They're considered a business as well.
Oh, they do? Oh.
They, no, they don't get a break.
That's... Really?
No, not, not at all.
Oh.
Not at all. They have to pay business rates as well.
Uh, not that I'm aware of,
unless something has changed in the last...
Residents can pay...
Now, this is bizarre.
Every call I make in the New York City area
is, uh, 10 cents no matter how long.
Right?
Right.
It could be for years.
Right, but you do have to pay for every call.
There are some, some areas where you,
uh, pay a certain, uh, flat rate...
Uh-huh.
...and you can make unlimited number of calls, uh,
after paying that particular rate.
Uh-huh.
Like, uh, something like $15, I think, a, a month.
I see.
So a business has to pay, uh,
what is it, the rate in New York City,
like, uh, 10 cents every minute?
What is it, uh...
I'm not really sure, to be honest.
Uh-huh.
Because I had a business, and that ran me to ground.
You know?
Uh-huh.
I didn't realize that, and I just, um,
I tell you what, if I knew that,
I wouldn't open my business.
Uh-huh.
Or, you know, uh, a, a lot of,
a lot of, uh, people run businesses out of their homes.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Some phone companies, um, don't mind if you do that.
Some phone companies do mind.
I mean, it's...
They really...
It really shouldn't be up to them at all,
but NYNEX happens to be one of the companies
that doesn't mind if you do that.
Right.
Uh, so you are able to run a business out of your home
and pay residential rates.
Can I ask one last quick question?
Yeah.
Uh, if, if the cost of a cell phone is so expensive,
why do I see so many people,
are they talking to themselves, or what?
Is it a show?
Why do I see so many people who look like they don't,
can't afford, you know, I mean, they have a regular job,
they're using cell phones like crazy.
What, what's the story there?
Is this like a fad or kind of like a show?
First of all, first of all, it's hard to say
how somebody can look like they can afford something or not.
I mean, the richest people I know look like they're poorer.
Yeah, but it's a dollar a call.
Uh, right.
Some people don't seem to care about that.
I mean, what kind of people call 900 numbers
and only pay $4 a minute or crazy things like that?
You know, it's, uh, it boggles the mind
when some people consider priorities.
Right.
Um, and it's really not, not for us to judge that,
but if we want to see more people, uh,
getting access to this at a fair price,
then obviously the prices have to come down.
Right. Okay, thank you very much.
All right, thanks for calling.
Bye-bye.
And, uh, it's just about time for us to, uh,
to move on to another channel.
We're in the Canada channel now,
so if you're calling into, um, uh, to our internet access,
um, what you want to do is, um, give a call to 212-888-8212
and, uh, log in as WBAI, pass with WBAI,
and select a unique username.
What we are going to do now is we're all going to wander over
to the NBA channel.
That's right, so join pound sign NBA,
and what you will do is you will join a whole bunch of people
that are in there talking about basketball, I guess,
which is what's going on down the street from here,
the, uh, final, uh, one of the final playoff games,
um, for the New York Knicks,
and then we can get into all kinds of arguments and, uh,
and things about, uh, about basketball if anybody cares.
Uh, just, uh, an indication of what the net offers.
You can just wander around every place and be part of that,
so that's something else to do.
Again, if you're currently on the, uh, the net
and you've just called in, you'll be in a WBAI channel.
You have to leave that, and you have to, uh,
type the following command, slash,
every command on IRC begins with slash,
uh, join, J-O-I-N, space, pound sign, NBA.
That's where we all are now.
We've left the Canada channel, we've left the Iceland channel,
and we've gone on to greener pastures.
Let's go back to the phones.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
Hello, um...
Hello.
Hi, I've never been on the internet before,
and I have a few different...
I have a few different kinds of programs to get on it,
like Zterm or Mosaic or, um, different things like that,
and I was just wondering, like, how you do it.
Uh, well, any modem program will connect you.
You don't need specific software,
although you can use that if you want to run
sophisticated programs.
We're talking about the very basics here.
Uh, all you need is a modem, and a modem program,
and a telephone, obviously.
Yeah.
And it sounds like you have that.
Okay.
So all you have to do, I mean,
you've connected to computers before,
basic computers, right?
Yeah.
First class.
Call the number that we gave out,
and, uh, you'll be connected.
Okay.
Simple as that.
Just follow the instructions we gave.
Okay.
Thanks.
Good luck.
Bye.
A, uh, first-time voyager into the, uh,
wilds of the net.
Godspeed to him.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, Emanuel.
Uh, a couple of miscellaneous things from tonight.
Oh, I saw you on Nightline.
Uh, was it about a week ago?
Yeah, that was weird.
I was on Nightline again.
I-I wasn't expecting that, to be honest.
They-they took a piece that they taped last year
for a privacy piece that they had been sort of, uh,
just holding off on for the longest time,
and they, uh, they used it, which, uh, surprised me,
especially so soon after the other one.
Yeah, nice shirt.
Yeah, nice 2600 shirt there.
You like that, huh?
They had-they had you, uh,
were you actually picking up a cellular phone call?
Weren't you afraid you'd get railroaded, or the...
Well, no, I had a scanner.
I've done this before.
I-I-I almost did it in front of Congress.
I came very close to doing it in front of Congress,
but I was afraid of them.
Ha.
And, um, basically, I had a scanner,
or a-a-a radio that can transmit and receive,
and I listened, you know.
I-I scanned, and I received very quickly.
Um, it's not difficult to do.
It does happen to be illegal to listen to these, uh,
these frequencies.
I remember when I was a kid, uh,
being told by teachers in school that, uh,
that the one big, uh, difference between the U.S. and Russia
was that there-in Russia, there were laws against, uh,
listening to the radio over there.
And in our country...
Uh-huh.
...we never have anything like that.
Well, yeah, you know, it's, um,
it's the kind of thing you'd expect in other countries,
this kind of thing.
This country doesn't have stupid laws like that, but, uh...
Until now.
Yeah, we do.
We have all kinds...
A couple miscellaneous things.
Yeah.
AT&T message service, I think the cost is $1.75.
Oh, it's a real bargain to leave a message
on someone's machine, isn't it?
Yeah.
Well, it's...
The-the nice thing about it is you can leave somebody
a message when you can't get to their machine.
Uh-huh.
Um, and I've had people, when I was on the phone,
that left me a message using it.
And when they...
When they...
When it comes up, the phone rings, you answer,
and it says, hi, this is AT&T message service.
Somebody left a message for you.
Uh, we were...
We will now repeat it twice.
And, uh, I think you can...
After that, you can punch some touch tones
and get it a third time.
Right.
Now, I-I've played with that system, but, again,
for the cost, it just doesn't seem, uh...
It doesn't seem right.
I mean, they're making a phone call,
they're storing something in their computer
for a limited amount of time.
There's no guarantee, though, that it's gonna get
through to the person.
They'll try for a certain amount of time,
and if it doesn't get through, they're just gonna
charge you anyway.
Yeah.
I've tried that, uh, repeat, uh, call or something.
Yeah, star-66.
On my own number, which obviously, uh,
was not gonna work one way or another.
I never tried that. What happens?
And, uh, you know, they charged me for it.
They charged you for that?
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
Um, I guess they were figuring someday it would...
it would not be busy, and they'd be able
to connect me to myself somehow.
Well, they only try for half an hour, but, uh, yeah,
if you look at those commercials,
those star-66 commercials, look at the fine print, um,
and it says, 75-cent charge applies
and the call is completed.
Mm-hmm.
I find that incredible.
And, you know, I-I'm not...
I haven't confirmed this, but I believe it's true.
If you call somebody, their phone is busy,
and then it becomes unbusy and calls you back,
and then in the time that it takes you
to pick up the phone, their phone becomes busy again.
You get a recording saying, um, that, uh,
the number has become busy again,
and you have to start all over again.
I'm wondering, do you get charged for that attempt?
You probably do.
Yeah.
I've never missed out on it.
It's, uh, it's not fair.
It's totally unfair.
Oh, yeah.
Well, you know, here's our...
We're supposed to have commissions
looking out for our interests, but, uh,
you're not doing a very good job.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you mentioned, uh, North Korea
and a couple countries that you couldn't call.
Until recently, Cuba was on that list.
Well, that's right, Cuba.
Yeah, I think you can call them now.
Yeah, but now the operator told you
that it was because of the North Koreans.
That may be misleading, because I know
a little familiarity with what was going on in Cuba.
Cuba wanted, uh, a payment of royalties
or some kind of tariffs
for-for phone service into the country
from AT&T or whoever was running the calls down there.
But the U.S. embargo made it impossible
for them to do that,
even if AT&T wanted to pay them.
Um...
So it was sort of like a catch-22.
They couldn't, uh...
Well, the government was saying,
Um, but while-while they could not be reached
from the United States,
um, you could call an 800 number in Canada
that was set up for that purpose.
A lot of Cuban, uh, Cubans living in the States
would-would call their families in Cuba
by dialing up to Canada to one of these special services,
because Canada had normal trade with Cuba.
And you could get through that way.
Right, that's how I eventually, uh,
called Albania for the first time in my life,
because I had been trying to do that
almost-almost since the day I was born,
just to see if it could be done.
And I had to go to Canada to-to call them,
because there was no phone service
between here and Albania.
Well, maybe we get the second-best, uh,
phone service in the world.
Yeah, well, you know, in Canada, uh,
you can call information in the United States for free.
So it actually makes sense.
I think you get something like 300 information calls a-a month,
and then they start charging you.
But, uh, you could actually go up to Canada
and make all your information calls
and come back down here,
and probably the money you save would pay for your trip.
That's right, yeah, they'd pay for the gas,
if you-if you could save them all up like that.
Uh-huh, and some enterprising person up in Canada
probably could start a business
where they get us information for a-a small fee,
smaller than AT&T charges.
I don't know how it is in New York,
uh, but, uh, I'm in New Jersey,
and you can make free information calls
all you want from a pay phone.
Uh-huh, not all around the world, though,
all around the country.
No, not-not-not out of the country, actually.
It's just, uh, probably just New Jersey.
That-that used to be free, but now...
Yeah, yeah, I-uh, same thing in New York.
You can call anywhere, uh, in the local LATA,
which would be 914-516-212718,
and, uh, there's no charge for that from a pay phone.
Mm.
Okay, uh, somebody earlier called about GMRS.
Uh, I understand that is, uh,
I think this stands for, uh, General Mobile Radio Service.
Uh-huh.
And that's the old, what, Class C, I believe it was,
Citizens Band.
Oh, really?
Yeah, which-which nobody ever got on.
Uh, Class D Citizens Band was the one-
is the one that's down at 27, uh, megahertz range,
and there was this other one that's, uh,
that's up quite a bit higher,
I think, like, in the 400 megahertz, uh, range.
But there aren't really very many channels on there,
and I-I-although you might be able to hook a phone patch up,
I don't think it's really a competition for cellular.
So, uh, unless it-unless this is some new service
that-that I'm getting confused with that...
Uh-huh.
...kind of renamed it and made it, uh,
sort of a general mobile service.
Yeah.
Yeah, it may not be competition,
but it is something, an alternative of sorts.
Um, we have to look at imaginative ways
to, uh, to get communications out.
Yeah, I still see these phones advertised in, uh,
uh, especially see them on airline, uh, magazines
that are supposed to have, like, a five-mile range,
cordless phones.
Yeah, I've seen those, too,
and it says for export only.
Yeah, the very small print.
At first, they didn't say this, but then,
after a while, they started saying,
in very tiny print down the bottom,
uh, that it isn't supposed to be used in the United States.
And then right below that, in larger print,
they say, we ship anywhere.
Ha-ha-ha.
Yeah.
...is you, uh, you take your chances.
Uh-huh.
Well, that's interesting.
I would like to see how one of those works,
but, obviously, we'd have to be standing
outside the boundaries of this country to do it legally.
Obviously, we would.
Okay.
Listen, thanks for the call.
Okay, take care.
Take care.
212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
And this is off the hook.
We have about another seven minutes left, I'd say.
Let's see who else is out there.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Oh, yeah, how you doing?
I'm calling about the several things, mainly GMRS.
The caller before me had said that GMRS is a citizens band.
No, no, class C citizens band is used for remote control cars.
And GMRS is just basically in the 400 megahertz range
and in the 150 megahertz range.
Well, it's not the same as citizens band,
was it not called citizens band?
No, no.
It may have been part of the same thing,
but it isn't class C.
Class C is for remote controls, and it's in the 27 megahertz
in between the regular class D channels.
I just looked it up.
Phone patching there will probably be illegal.
The FCC probably won't approve of it.
Really?
Yeah, because also the range on there
will be better than cellular phones.
Cellular phones, for instance, are using very limited power.
The batteries are very, you know,
and they don't last very long either
because you've got these little radios, you know,
not enough capacity for the battery to last long.
But if you go GMRS phone patch, you know,
you've got these big batteries,
and you've got a lot of capacity and a lot of power.
So you're able to go farther away from your phone patch, basically.
Now, what is it, though, that determines that a phone patch
would be illegal and something like that?
The FCC.
But I'm saying, what rationale do they use to say
that it's illegal to do this?
You know, either use cellular phones or, you know, or not.
This is not a telephone service.
This is for two-way communications.
Uh-huh.
Basically, that's what they would say.
This is for two-way communications.
But aren't telephones two-way communications?
No, well, not according to the FCC,
because if that were true,
I wouldn't be here on the radio right now, over the air.
Two-way communications is illegal on FM and AM broadcast bands.
I see.
So, I mean, I don't know.
They think really weirdly.
Yeah, I'm having a lot of trouble following that logic, to be honest.
I know.
It's the FCC.
They put all these laws.
Basically, if GMRS does pick up
and people start doing phone patches,
the FCC will probably pass some law to disallow it.
That's just the way they are, you know?
For instance, let me give you an example.
In the amateur radio band,
you can make a phone call,
but you can use auto-patch through repeaters and stuff like that.
But you can't have anything to do with business.
You can call home.
You can say, Mom, I'm going to be late.
But you can't say, Hey, listen, I'm going to be late for the meeting.
Keep my client waiting.
You can't call up and say that to your office.
You see?
Yeah, I know.
I know what you're saying,
but it's a ridiculous restriction to put on people.
Yeah, I mean, it is.
Imagine if we did the same thing with computers.
I was just thinking that the FCC,
one of these days, is going to step in on that Internet
and say, Hey, listen, you've got to be licensed now
to do all that kind of stuff.
Can you imagine if they did something like that?
I mean, they're kicking themselves now
probably because they didn't do that from the start
and the Internet sort of grew before regulation started.
But I think that's the healthiest way for it to have happened.
Yeah, and not only that, but the thing is,
there's also something like that here in the amateur band,
especially on two meters.
There's something called packet radio,
and it's just like bulletin board systems,
but over the air, and you don't have to pay anything.
Just buy a radio, hook it up into your computer,
as long as you have a license of the proper class,
and you're on the air on bulletin board systems.
One of my friends went from here all the way to Hawaii for free
on some sort of message system.
I don't know quite well how much a packet works,
but he sent somebody in Hawaii a message
through nodes and all that kind of stuff,
I don't know, like repeaters, I suppose, digital repeaters.
Yeah, there's amazing things you can do with those, really.
It's a whole other world,
something that I wish I had gotten more involved in,
but maybe I'll get more involved in in the future.
Yeah.
Anyway, thanks for the call.
We've got to move on to one more call.
Oh, okay, okay, friend. See you later.
All right, take care.
Yeah, the whole ham radio scene is something that,
it boggles the imagination,
the things that are going on over there.
Good evening, you're on the radio.
Go ahead.
Good evening, you're on the radio.
Okay, I don't want to hear myself, all right?
That's very important.
Good evening, you're on the radio.
Well, I don't want to hear hang-ups either.
Good evening, you're on the radio.
Hey, Manuel, how are you doing?
Okay, how are you?
Good.
You talked about a while ago, long while ago,
defeating Star 69.
Okay.
I figured out a way to basically defeat it.
If you forward your call somewhere,
you know, with the call forwarding feature,
and someone tries to Star 69 you,
and they would normally be able to,
they will get a fast, busy signal.
They won't be able to call you back.
All right.
Now, if you disable your call forwarding,
then they'll be able to call you back.
Now, they will never actually be forwarded, though, will they?
No, they will never get, they dial Star 69,
your phone doesn't even ring.
As if it's forwarded.
Uh-huh.
You know how when you get a call forwarded call,
it rings once?
Right.
It doesn't even do that.
It just gives them a fast, busy signal,
because it doesn't know what to do with it.
I'll tell you something interesting
with call forwarding.
You can make call forwarding really fool people
in many ways.
For instance, let's say you forward your line
to a pay phone, and then you call yourself
collect on the forwarded line.
The pay phone, the pay phone will then appear
to get a collect call.
Yes.
And people will think that you somehow mastered the system
and gotten a pay phone to accept something like that.
Well, you don't even need to do that anymore.
There's a country, a company, you know, Metro Media,
they use for the phones that are now on the trains.
Yes.
But you can also use 10999,
and they don't check if the phone is a pay phone.
When you bill a collect call,
she can make collect calls to a pay phone.
Wow, that's something sloppy on their part, I'll say that.
Two more kind of things
that maybe you could shed some light on.
When you had dialed the long-distance operator before,
she repeated the number to information,
your phone number, that you were calling from.
That's right.
Why did she do that?
I'm assuming you're on 5ESS,
and doesn't 5ESS pass along the ANI through the operator?
Apparently, when you go to the center in Pittsburgh,
which is where I believe I wound up,
the International Operator Center, the IOC,
not the International Olympic Committee.
That's where that particular bit of information is lost,
and that's where they will...
I've noticed this.
They always pass along your number.
They tell them if you're a pay phone or not a pay phone
or have any kind of restrictions,
and supposedly they get that information down over there,
and that's for billing information.
So I would guess that it's not passed on.
Because the other thing,
we were also on the 5ESS system when I went to Florida,
and I called a friend who had caller ID,
and I did it through the operator,
and he didn't get my number.
There are times when things will fail
when they'll ask you your number
and just believe anything you say.
That's true.
Listen, thanks for the call.
We're out of time.
Okay.
All right.
And that's pretty much it for us here tonight.
This has been Off the Hook,
and we'll be back again next week.
Who knows what kind of fun things
we'll be doing on the net and on the phones.
Thanks, everybody, that participated,
that was a part of this,
and keep thinking about how to get yourself on the net
and how to play around with phones and computers
and all kinds of other things.
And also, give us ideas on hope
on what you want to see at the Hackers on Planet Earth
conference this August in New York.
You can write to us here at WBAI.
That's Off the Hook, care of WBAI,
505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
Or you can call us at 516-751-2600.
Or you can send us mail at info at hope.net
and get all the information that way.
Again, thanks for calling in,
and stay tuned for a rebroadcast of the evening news
here on WBAI, New York.
Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing,
so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving,
now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse,
but if it could, then it would.
Bundling it on for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bundling it, go!
Good evening.
In the news tonight,
the president's new Haitian refugee policy
is already in trouble the waters.
Congress considers a bill that would put
scabs out of business during strikes.
And in New York,
the region prepares for a railroad strike
while conservatives in one community
try to silence the drums.
With these and other stories,
I'm Jose Santiago in New York
with Verna Avery-Brown in Washington,
and this is the news for Wednesday, June 15, 1994.
First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
President Clinton says the U.S.
has begun circulating a draft resolution
at the U.N. about North Korea.
Face sanctions designed to...