Off The Hook - 1994-08-31

[00:39.970 --> 00:42.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: The preceding announcement was a recording.
[01:08.090 --> 01:13.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: And a very
[01:45.820 --> 01:46.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: good evening to everybody.
[01:46.580 --> 01:53.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Off the Hook, the program about technology, phones, computers, the Internet, the future, all that kind of thing.
[01:53.960 --> 01:59.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Those of us who have seen the future know it's filled with all kinds of unpleasantness sometimes.
[02:01.880 --> 02:02.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh well.
[02:06.760 --> 02:08.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Stay tuned, we'll tell you what we mean.
[02:22.520 --> 02:29.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me absolute control over every living soul.
[02:29.860 --> 02:33.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: And lie beside me, baby, that's an order.
[02:36.220 --> 02:39.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me a crack in your sex.
[02:40.460 --> 02:43.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Take the only tree that's left.
[02:43.740 --> 02:47.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Stub it up the hole in your culture.
[02:47.620 --> 02:53.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me back the burning wall.
[02:54.210 --> 02:55.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me a start.
[02:55.910 --> 02:59.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: And say, Pop, I've seen a future, brother.
[03:00.170 --> 03:01.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is my turn.
[03:02.890 --> 03:03.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[03:04.410 --> 03:06.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Vance on slide.
[03:07.670 --> 03:10.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Slide in all directions.
[03:11.130 --> 03:11.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Open up.
[03:12.210 --> 03:15.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Won't be nothing you can't measure anymore.
[03:17.210 --> 03:18.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: The blizzard.
[03:19.090 --> 03:20.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: The blizzard.
[03:20.430 --> 03:29.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: The blizzard of the world is across the threshold, and it's overturned the order of the soul.
[03:30.670 --> 03:33.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: When they feel repent.
[03:41.230 --> 03:42.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: When they fear.
[03:42.710 --> 03:50.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: They say, repent, repent, I wonder what they meant.
[03:51.310 --> 04:00.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: 판매 Jackie, Repent, Repent, I wonder what they meant.
[04:06.430 --> 04:09.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me the burning wall.
[04:09.770 --> 04:12.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me Starman and Saint-Paar.
[04:13.130 --> 04:16.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me Christ or give me Hiroshima.
[04:19.230 --> 04:23.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Destroy another fetus now.
[04:23.310 --> 04:26.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't let children anyhow.
[04:26.770 --> 04:28.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've seen the future, baby.
[04:29.690 --> 04:31.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is murder.
[04:33.430 --> 04:39.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Things are gonna slide in all directions.
[04:39.590 --> 04:41.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Won't be nothing.
[04:41.670 --> 04:42.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Won't be nothing.
[04:43.590 --> 04:46.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't measure anymore.
[04:46.850 --> 04:48.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: The blizzard.
[04:48.470 --> 04:53.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: The blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold.
[04:53.890 --> 04:55.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's over time.
[04:56.130 --> 04:58.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: The order of the soul.
[04:59.830 --> 05:03.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: When they say repent.
[05:06.670 --> 05:09.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder what they meant.
[05:10.190 --> 05:13.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: When they say repent.
[05:14.050 --> 05:14.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Repent.
[05:14.690 --> 05:15.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Repent.
[05:21.620 --> 05:22.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're sorry.
[05:24.200 --> 05:24.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Repent.
[05:24.440 --> 05:24.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Repent.
[05:24.980 --> 05:25.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Repent.
[05:58.320 --> 06:01.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Involving the networks, technology, that kind of thing.
[06:02.700 --> 06:03.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Boy, where do we start?
[06:04.140 --> 06:10.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have the chance of a special guest tonight, but that's all I'll say for the moment.
[06:10.800 --> 06:12.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see if that actually comes through.
[06:12.440 --> 06:15.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: We do have a sort of special guest in the studio.
[06:15.540 --> 06:16.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Rop.
[06:16.320 --> 06:16.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi there.
[06:16.980 --> 06:18.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you still here?
[06:18.180 --> 06:19.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hope was two weeks ago.
[06:19.920 --> 06:20.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
[06:20.560 --> 06:21.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: They won't let you out of the country or something?
[06:22.160 --> 06:23.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, they won't let me back into mine.
[06:24.140 --> 06:24.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: I see.
[06:24.740 --> 06:27.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Rop is the Dutch publisher of Hack-Tic Magazine.
[06:27.220 --> 06:33.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's here to offer occasional side commentary and various things like that.
[06:33.940 --> 06:37.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll be back at you in a few minutes.
[06:37.680 --> 06:40.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: We have a story which is just not to be believed.
[06:41.140 --> 06:46.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know I say that every week, but this is a story that put me into what you might call a brown funk.
[06:47.600 --> 06:57.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, no, that's not entirely true either because, well, this story made me so angry that, I don't know, I didn't feel depressed.
[06:57.280 --> 07:02.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: I just felt complete and total anger of a kind you just would not believe.
[07:03.440 --> 07:11.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it comes from what you would expect to be a fairly progressive newspaper.
[07:12.200 --> 07:24.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of those alternative street papers with all kinds of alternative sounds and cultural differences and things like that.
[07:24.540 --> 07:26.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, not in this particular case.
[07:26.520 --> 07:27.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[07:27.300 --> 07:29.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: In this particular case, these guys outdid the New York Post.
[07:31.880 --> 07:32.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean that.
[07:33.520 --> 07:39.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me read you a very brief editorial which appeared in the city paper of Philadelphia.
[07:40.540 --> 07:42.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: It had a whole special on hackers.
[07:43.840 --> 07:53.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have to admit that I'm sometimes thrilled when I read about some of the ingenious deeds of hackers and E-Bandits catchphrase of the week.
[07:54.760 --> 07:55.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes.
[07:55.940 --> 08:06.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: As an editor and journalist, someone who spends time and money finding out information that others don't want found out, I feel a special kinship with people who secretly burrow into databases.
[08:09.100 --> 08:18.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: I get a real kick watching them tweak the noses of the marketing weasels who want to know more about individuals than they do about themselves.
[08:20.860 --> 08:26.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why should a company like Citibank Visa have the right to keep records on every purchase I make?
[08:27.520 --> 08:32.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why should they have the right to sell my buying patterns to the highest bidder?
[08:32.320 --> 08:43.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why should Bell Atlantic, the company which calls itself the heart of communications, have the exclusive right to keep a log of my phone calls?
[08:43.280 --> 08:47.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: And on top of that, give me a minor coronary every time I open the phone bill?
[08:49.420 --> 08:51.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, even hackers aren't that stupid.
[08:51.360 --> 08:53.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why does the phone company have the right to keep a record of who you call?
[08:55.740 --> 08:58.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, of course they're going to bill you for it.
[08:59.580 --> 09:02.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, information like speech should be free, proclaimed the hackers.
[09:03.660 --> 09:06.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Screw the suits, they say, who hoard data and restrict access.
[09:06.660 --> 09:10.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: To hell with those who make a living by abridging our fundamental rights of privacy.
[09:10.760 --> 09:13.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or so the argument goes.
[09:14.620 --> 09:18.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Until the hackers take a bite out of me.
[09:19.940 --> 09:20.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or you.
[09:22.720 --> 09:33.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: When some jerk ripped off my credit card number while I was using a payphone on the New Jersey Turnpike and started charging calls to Oklahoma on my account, I was damn glad when AT&T shut them down in two days.
[09:34.880 --> 09:36.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hooray for the suits, I cried.
[09:38.220 --> 09:46.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: And when a few years ago someone infected the City Paper's information system with a virus, I wanted to bite some pimply-faced punk's head off.
[09:47.000 --> 09:49.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's my data on other people you're messing with, bud.
[09:50.160 --> 09:56.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: And since City Paper is a company that packages information for a business, that's our livelihood you're trying to ruin.
[09:59.180 --> 10:03.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: As a newspaper, we'd die if we didn't weasel information out of people who didn't want to give it up.
[10:03.200 --> 10:05.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: But as a business, the moles...
[10:06.340 --> 10:08.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...who invade our own private gardens...
[10:09.640 --> 10:10.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...could leave us to starve.
[10:14.790 --> 10:15.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that is my dilemma.
[10:16.230 --> 10:21.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: The people that we write about this week are either freedom fighters or uncommon criminals, depending on how you look at it.
[10:23.970 --> 10:28.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: This week's cover story on hackers puts this question into high relief.
[10:29.710 --> 10:40.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: If, after centuries of unresolved debate about violations of physical privacy, how are we now going to distinguish right and wrong when it comes to protecting our virtual selves?
[10:41.890 --> 10:48.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Technology has raced past morality, and frankly, the current culture is yielding very few answers.
[10:53.350 --> 10:59.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, perhaps somebody out there can explain to us how...
[11:00.010 --> 11:04.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...somebody looking over a shoulder on the New Jersey Turnpike and finding a credit card number...
[11:04.550 --> 11:06.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...how does that have anything to do with hacking?
[11:07.150 --> 11:12.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: How does someone putting a virus in the city paper's information system have anything to do with hacking?
[11:12.530 --> 11:15.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably one of your own ex-employees, or current employees.
[11:16.110 --> 11:23.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you treat them any way similar to the way you write stories, I don't doubt there are a lot of viruses floating around.
[11:26.270 --> 11:33.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: It is kind of the tone that was set for this particular story.
[11:34.410 --> 11:35.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's awful.
[11:35.490 --> 11:35.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: It really is.
[11:35.970 --> 11:43.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they have this big piece on fiber optic in prison, which is something that I think will make people really see red.
[11:43.690 --> 11:47.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry, we'll be giving out the phone number for these fine people real soon.
[11:49.210 --> 11:50.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, we will.
[11:50.690 --> 11:52.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: It is 6 p.m.
[11:52.470 --> 11:53.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: on a Friday.
[11:54.330 --> 11:57.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Weekend rush hour at 30th Street Station.
[11:59.830 --> 12:03.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: The place is Bedlam.
[12:04.790 --> 12:06.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it's Philadelphia, but...
[12:06.850 --> 12:12.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a scramble of commuters pouring in and out of New York and Washington trains.
[12:14.610 --> 12:22.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: I am at Stairway 7, looking around for a nondescript group of computer enthusiasts who call themselves hackers and freakers.
[12:25.910 --> 12:29.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Kids, for the most part, who like to mess around with communications networks.
[12:32.090 --> 12:34.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: There is so much tumour... tumour...
[12:34.510 --> 12:35.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Commotion.
[12:35.670 --> 12:36.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: I always had trouble with that word.
[12:36.830 --> 12:51.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: There is so much commotion at the station that for several minutes I wonder if I will ever locate this meeting of the local chapter of 2600, a nationwide band of hackers and freakers, named after the tone cycle needed to access free telephone calls.
[12:54.710 --> 12:57.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: All over the world, at the same time, between 5 p.m.
[12:57.670 --> 13:05.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: and 8 p.m., Eastern Standard Time, first Friday of each month, 2600 club meetings are taking place in similar clandestine locales.
[13:05.870 --> 13:11.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the middle of the city's biggest train station is a clandestine locale.
[13:12.170 --> 13:13.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: CityCorp Center is clandestine.
[13:13.930 --> 13:14.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[13:15.050 --> 13:16.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter what we do.
[13:16.630 --> 13:19.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're always going to be meeting in secret, even if we're right out there in the open.
[13:20.850 --> 13:28.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: They meet to talk shop, trade secrets, and see the faces behind the handles they've chatted with via bulletin board systems, online networks, and the Internet.
[13:30.010 --> 13:36.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Conversations that are often about breaking into supposedly secure networks, obtaining free telephone service, and other mischiefs, some of it highly illegal.
[13:37.750 --> 13:51.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've been told that some of these hacker-freakers, that's another new word, who know how to access your credit history and your telephone service, can and will mess with your life just for the fun of it.
[13:52.150 --> 13:56.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a thought that gives me pause because I've come to hack the hackers.
[14:21.510 --> 14:24.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think you can guess how the article goes.
[14:28.010 --> 14:35.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: More accusations, more fear of the unknown, and no facts at all.
[14:35.170 --> 14:36.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: No facts really to back things up.
[14:40.870 --> 14:46.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the part which really is very annoying, it's the part on fiber optic.
[14:46.990 --> 14:53.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: They went to his prison to talk to him, and they came up with this sidebar called Moral Fiber.
[14:53.650 --> 14:54.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Get it?
[14:54.130 --> 14:54.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: Moral Fiber?
[14:58.370 --> 15:03.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll read excerpts from it because the whole thing will be too painful to sit through.
[15:03.550 --> 15:08.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: As he sits in the small meeting room of the federal prison camp in Minerville, Pennsylvania.
[15:08.130 --> 15:10.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, of course, the town is called Minersville.
[15:10.570 --> 15:13.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Throughout the entire article, they get the town wrong.
[15:13.330 --> 15:15.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's in their own state, and they can't even get that right.
[15:16.250 --> 15:18.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: Federal prison camp in Minerville, Pennsylvania.
[15:18.430 --> 15:22.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mark Abene nervously clasps and unclasps his long fingers.
[15:22.270 --> 15:29.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Fingers that are far more used to tapping on computer keyboards than they are to guiding a buffing machine over a kitchen floor.
[15:31.130 --> 15:33.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Get the dramatic irony there.
[15:33.790 --> 15:48.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: But since there are no computers in prison, at least none that prisoners like Abene have access to, his digits have spent the last seven months making the transformation from high-tech lethal weapons to low-tech cleaning apparatus.
[15:52.670 --> 15:55.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: I still can't believe I am here, says Abene.
[15:55.490 --> 16:02.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: A high school dropout better known to law enforcement officers and modem heads as the nefarious fiber optic leader of the Masters of Deception computer hacking clique.
[16:02.810 --> 16:05.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: What I did may have been illegal, but it wasn't criminal.
[16:07.170 --> 16:08.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what Abene did.
[16:09.670 --> 16:13.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: And here's what will really get a lot of us angry.
[16:14.250 --> 16:15.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Illegally obtained credit reports.
[16:16.150 --> 16:21.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: Destroyed a public television station's computer that had provided educational materials to hundreds of schools.
[16:23.050 --> 16:25.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Broke into the computer systems of Southwestern Bell.
[16:26.330 --> 16:27.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[16:28.670 --> 16:30.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and for good measure.
[16:32.290 --> 16:34.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the part that might make you laugh.
[16:35.590 --> 16:45.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Abene and his four cohorts also managed to induce NBC TV's computer to issue a happy Thanksgiving message that flashed across screens during an NBC News broadcast.
[16:50.280 --> 16:53.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's not exactly how it happened, is it?
[16:53.360 --> 17:03.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: But those of us who know the facts will remember that this was a particular message that was flashed across a computer at WNET.
[17:03.920 --> 17:08.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: And this was long ago proven that fiber optic had nothing to do with that.
[17:08.880 --> 17:11.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was another person who was never charged.
[17:11.740 --> 17:16.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the feds went to work with this person to lock people like Mark up.
[17:16.680 --> 17:22.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: The person that caused the damage was the person that the federal government cooperated with.
[17:22.580 --> 17:25.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of irony just never ceases to amaze me.
[17:25.400 --> 17:32.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: But the funny thing about this whole thing was that the happy Thanksgiving message was flashed onto the computer of WNET.
[17:33.760 --> 17:38.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just not an on-air type of a thing, just a little PC or something.
[17:38.460 --> 17:42.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this was mentioned on a WNBC News report.
[17:42.700 --> 17:46.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mark made reference to what some malicious people might do.
[17:46.680 --> 17:53.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this particular newspaper turns that around into somebody broadcasting it over NBC.
[17:53.940 --> 18:02.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, somebody mentioning it on Channel 4 turns into a hacker broadcasting it over the news of an entire nationwide network.
[18:02.700 --> 18:04.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the kind of journalism we're dealing with here.
[18:06.200 --> 18:07.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: No journalism at all.
[18:08.540 --> 18:23.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, to continue with this nonsense here, Benny's antics brought him great fame and honor among the hacking-freaking set, but it also brought the FBI and Secret Service swooping into his home on November 14th, 1989 with guns drawn, seizing nearly everything he owned.
[18:24.240 --> 18:26.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was the first time that the government used wiretaps.
[18:27.180 --> 18:27.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, wrong.
[18:27.820 --> 18:28.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: That did not happen in 1989.
[18:28.980 --> 18:30.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: That happened in 1991.
[18:31.400 --> 18:33.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: But let's just continue with the farce.
[18:33.900 --> 18:35.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: In essence, hacking the hackers.
[18:36.360 --> 18:37.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's that phrase again.
[18:37.940 --> 18:45.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, Benny's antics also brought him a year-and-a-day sentence at the prison camp for trespassing in computer systems.
[18:47.380 --> 19:03.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: With about four months to go in his sentence, Benny maintains that he did nothing wrong and that the government is wasting its time and the taxpayers' money investigating the so-called hackers and freakers who idle away their hours searching for breaches in the computer security systems of government and corporations,
[19:03.940 --> 19:07.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: in particular telephone companies and credit bureaus.
[19:10.740 --> 19:16.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it goes on with all kinds of kind of mocking tone here.
[19:18.200 --> 19:28.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they basically say things that wound up getting him into trouble at the prison, too, because Mark does tend to speak his mind on certain things, such as prison conditions.
[19:28.400 --> 19:33.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: And to have that printed in a newspaper and then sent back to the prison certainly didn't do him much good.
[19:33.360 --> 19:41.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, shortly after this article came out, he was fired from the job that he had in the kitchen and was forced to do something a bit more difficult.
[19:44.480 --> 19:49.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so that's the crap that's coming out in alternative newspapers.
[19:49.520 --> 19:51.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Not much of an alternative there at all.
[19:51.340 --> 19:52.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: You want to write to these people?
[19:52.560 --> 19:53.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: You want to call them up?
[19:54.220 --> 19:57.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, these are the people you want to talk to.
[19:57.380 --> 20:01.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Howard Altman and Margit Detweller.
[20:01.220 --> 20:04.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's M-A-R-G-I-T-D-E-T-W-E-L-L.
[20:04.940 --> 20:05.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: E-R.
[20:06.180 --> 20:08.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't have the number handy, but you know what?
[20:08.820 --> 20:12.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to perform a public service for the entire tri-state area.
[20:16.510 --> 20:17.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to call information.
[20:19.870 --> 20:21.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, why am I getting another dial tone?
[20:21.710 --> 20:22.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make any sense.
[20:22.950 --> 20:23.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me...
[20:25.550 --> 20:26.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that going to work?
[20:26.650 --> 20:27.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: George, this is Tracy.
[20:27.750 --> 20:28.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can I help you?
[20:28.170 --> 20:29.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, is this Philadelphia?
[20:29.550 --> 20:29.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[20:29.830 --> 20:33.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: I need the main number for the Philadelphia City paper, please.
[20:34.310 --> 20:35.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Philadelphia City paper?
[20:35.750 --> 20:37.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's one of those alternative free papers.
[20:38.250 --> 20:38.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[20:38.990 --> 20:39.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[20:44.380 --> 20:48.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have City paper on 13th Street or Chancellor Street.
[20:49.160 --> 20:50.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, is it the same organization?
[20:52.480 --> 20:53.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, they have the same number.
[20:53.980 --> 20:54.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hold on.
[20:54.320 --> 20:54.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thank you.
[20:55.000 --> 20:55.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're welcome.
[20:55.400 --> 21:06.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: The number is area code 215-735-8444.
[21:06.640 --> 21:07.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Repeat.
[21:08.040 --> 21:18.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: The number is area code 215-735-8444.
[21:18.980 --> 21:23.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you need further assistance, a directory assistance operator will return.
[21:23.980 --> 21:27.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we don't need further assistance, but it's very nice that they return over there in Philadelphia.
[21:28.040 --> 21:29.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Here in New York, they don't return anymore.
[21:29.380 --> 21:33.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: They just hang up and make you call back, which isn't very nice at all.
[21:36.100 --> 21:40.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so give a call to that number if you have any comments on this particular piece.
[21:40.880 --> 21:45.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you want to get a full copy, I'm sure you can somehow finagle them into sending it to you.
[21:46.520 --> 21:48.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: But don't expect too much.
[21:50.200 --> 21:52.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing what kind of garbage comes out.
[21:52.980 --> 21:56.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the dilemma we're always faced with as far as talking to the press.
[21:56.500 --> 21:58.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, will something like that happen?
[21:58.700 --> 22:00.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or will something intelligent come out?
[22:02.280 --> 22:05.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, the intelligence doesn't happen very often.
[22:05.660 --> 22:08.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: When it does happen, it's good, but it doesn't happen very often at all.
[22:09.460 --> 22:10.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what else is out there?
[22:11.560 --> 22:12.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Today's New York Times.
[22:13.280 --> 22:15.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: CompuServe to offer a link to the Internet.
[22:15.260 --> 22:16.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: How exciting.
[22:16.480 --> 22:18.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: New service to focus on corporate users.
[22:19.440 --> 22:23.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: CompuServe incorporated one of the world's largest commercial information services.
[22:23.480 --> 22:30.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Said yesterday that it planned to become a global service provider for businesses and individuals wanting to connect to the Internet.
[22:31.260 --> 22:34.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: The company, a division of H&R Block, did you know that?
[22:34.200 --> 22:35.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you know they were owned by H&R Block?
[22:36.960 --> 22:38.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, well they are.
[22:38.180 --> 22:39.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're based in Columbus, Ohio.
[22:40.200 --> 22:48.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: They already have the computer network infrastructure in place to compete in the small but rapidly growing business of providing Internet access.
[22:49.000 --> 22:57.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a game that moves as you play, said Lisa Thorell, who tracks online services for DataQuest, a market research company in San Jose, California.
[22:57.880 --> 23:00.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: CompuServe is moving in fast before the rules are set.
[23:00.900 --> 23:02.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a bold action.
[23:04.180 --> 23:08.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, maybe about 10 years too late, but a bold action nonetheless.
[23:09.420 --> 23:11.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, ready for the New York Times definition of the Internet?
[23:12.560 --> 23:13.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here we go.
[23:13.620 --> 23:22.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Internet is a global web of more than 2 million computers on 30,000 mostly private networks that is used by millions of people to exchange computer files and electronic mail.
[23:24.240 --> 23:25.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we'll live with that one.
[23:25.940 --> 23:28.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: By all accounts, the Internet is doubling in size each year.
[23:28.860 --> 23:37.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: The strongest growth on the Internet appears to be coming from commercial users who see the Internet as a new medium for communicating with customers and suppliers.
[23:38.760 --> 23:55.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: CompuServe officials said a new business will be formed possibly as soon as mid-September to offer Internet services to commercial customers including high-speed T1 lease line Internet service, dial-up direct connection over regular phone lines, and support for electronic publishing on the area of the Internet known as the World Wide Web.
[23:56.780 --> 23:58.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Special little section that's roped off.
[23:59.220 --> 24:06.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: In addition, the new company would help businesses develop software, manage security, and handle customer support on the Internet.
[24:08.680 --> 24:13.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's all fine and good, but it's not really the Internet if you go through CompuServe.
[24:13.520 --> 24:14.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure everybody knows that.
[24:15.860 --> 24:21.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: CompuServe also plans to offer public Internet access separate from its consumer service sometime next spring.
[24:22.020 --> 24:28.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: The move means that CompuServe will compete with large Internet service providers like Netcom and PSI.
[24:29.360 --> 24:36.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: CompuServe officials said pricing would be competitive with that of Netcom and PSI, which is typically $20 a month and up.
[24:37.340 --> 24:45.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: While CompuServe would clearly be a major player among Internet service providers, it may be followed by other large companies including Ameritech, U.S.
[24:45.840 --> 24:51.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sprint, Pacific Bell, MSF DataNet, and, yeah, 9x.
[24:52.600 --> 24:56.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: 9x, providing information, providing access to the Internet.
[24:56.580 --> 24:59.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: They can't even provide me with a clean phone line so I can get a modem connection.
[25:01.220 --> 25:03.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very early market, Ms. Thorell said.
[25:03.900 --> 25:09.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: I would estimate that at the end of 1993, it was no more than $60 million but it's on a high-growth path.
[25:12.200 --> 25:22.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Netcom, currently the largest Internet provider with some 50,000 customers, operates 32 points of presence in the United States, plans to open 15 more by the end of the year, including 914 area code, I understand.
[25:22.860 --> 25:27.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, those of you up in 914, Netcom will be coming to you fairly soon.
[25:28.000 --> 25:33.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, again, these are all commercial providers which are different than other smaller providers.
[25:34.300 --> 25:35.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just something to keep in mind.
[25:36.640 --> 25:38.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: I suggest people try out both.
[25:38.360 --> 25:40.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: That way they can see what the real difference is between the two.
[25:40.720 --> 25:50.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: But certainly something with a long history of overcharging such as CompuServe, I wouldn't look favorably upon them as providing a real open door to the Internet.
[25:52.120 --> 25:52.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: But we'll see.
[25:53.080 --> 25:53.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see what happens.
[25:54.540 --> 25:55.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a letter.
[25:56.620 --> 25:58.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: A letter to Off the Hook.
[25:58.680 --> 26:02.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: You can write your letters to Off the Hook by addressing them to us here.
[26:03.580 --> 26:07.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Off the Hook, care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[26:09.540 --> 26:10.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Another conspiracy.
[26:10.380 --> 26:18.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: You may be aware of the heavily advertised Nobody Beats the Wiz Woodstock Sweepstakes, which ended on August 10th.
[26:18.560 --> 26:19.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: A side note to that.
[26:19.400 --> 26:21.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the name of the company is not The Wiz.
[26:21.460 --> 26:22.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's Nobody Beats the Wiz.
[26:23.200 --> 26:24.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the real name of the store there.
[26:24.900 --> 26:27.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason for that is because you can beat The Wiz.
[26:27.820 --> 26:33.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, if you're able to beat The Wiz and prove them wrong, you might be able to sue them for a lot of money.
[26:33.280 --> 26:36.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: But since their name is Nobody Beats the Wiz, you can't get them on anything.
[26:36.960 --> 26:37.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Clever, huh?
[26:37.780 --> 26:42.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, the Nobody Beats the Wiz Woodstock Sweepstakes ended on August 10th.
[26:43.720 --> 26:56.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: You cut out a bar-coded Sweepstakes game card from the Sunday, July 31st or August 7th Wiz Circular and have it read by a Wiz Store Scanner.
[26:57.340 --> 26:59.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: This sweepstakes was not fair.
[26:59.240 --> 27:06.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: The large bar-codes on my losing three game cards were all clearly identical, suggesting only one losing game card bar-code was used.
[27:07.300 --> 27:09.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: This certainly distorted the random odds of winning.
[27:10.240 --> 27:12.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: In other words, every losing bar-code looked exactly the same.
[27:13.100 --> 27:26.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, that means several people from newspaper vendors who received Sunday Circular several days in advance could have rifled through batches of circulars picking out all the non-losing Sweepstakes entries, any entry deviating from the single losing bar-code.
[27:28.400 --> 27:36.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they included a clipping of all the losing game cards in that particular entry, and they all look exactly the same.
[27:36.520 --> 27:38.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Very easy to pick out a difference, I'm sure.
[27:39.020 --> 27:42.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it was a bar-code at all, but that's another thing.
[27:43.940 --> 27:46.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're going to take some phone calls now.
[27:46.300 --> 27:48.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: 212-279-3400.
[27:48.580 --> 27:52.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, we might have some surprises later on in the show.
[27:52.320 --> 27:53.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: We might not.
[27:53.700 --> 27:54.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: If we do, it's a surprise.
[27:54.940 --> 27:55.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: If we don't, it's a surprise.
[27:56.060 --> 27:56.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: We never know.
[27:57.140 --> 27:57.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Rop is here.
[27:58.620 --> 27:59.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yo.
[27:59.320 --> 27:59.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: How you doing?
[28:00.260 --> 28:04.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, what have you been doing here in the United States over the past several weeks?
[28:04.900 --> 28:07.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, just basically vacationing, not much technical stuff.
[28:08.160 --> 28:15.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Wanted to visit Boston to see some of the hacking and activity going on there, but didn't have any luck.
[28:16.060 --> 28:20.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Going to try again on that, and he was hiking through the Adirondack Mountains.
[28:21.380 --> 28:23.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: No technical stuff, no phones, no nothing.
[28:24.020 --> 28:28.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: No phones, no global satellite locators, nothing like that.
[28:28.240 --> 28:28.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
[28:29.060 --> 28:29.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[28:30.320 --> 28:39.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, never let it be said that hackers cannot get away from computers for a while, but you must miss being back in the heart of things.
[28:39.740 --> 28:40.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but I'm the exception.
[28:41.320 --> 28:42.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: All the other hackers can't.
[28:43.200 --> 28:43.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?
[28:43.740 --> 28:44.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're the exception?
[28:44.420 --> 28:45.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, we'll see about that.
[28:46.060 --> 28:46.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see about that.
[28:46.860 --> 28:49.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Rop, you won't be at the New York meeting this week, will you?
[28:50.040 --> 28:51.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'll be at the Boston one.
[28:51.760 --> 28:52.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: You'll be at the Boston meeting, okay.
[28:53.420 --> 28:55.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully you'll call in and let us know how things are going there.
[28:55.860 --> 29:02.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: For the rest of you, yes, there is a hacker meeting this Friday at the CityCore Center, 505-8th Avenue.
[29:02.140 --> 29:02.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, no, that's us.
[29:03.800 --> 29:04.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the address?
[29:04.600 --> 29:07.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's on between Lexington and 3rd.
[29:08.740 --> 29:13.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: In the lobby, by the pay funds, CityCore Center, between 5 and 8 p.m.
[29:13.420 --> 29:21.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, hopefully we'll see some people there, some post-hopesters or what have you, and we'll relive old times.
[29:21.780 --> 29:23.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, 212-279-3400.
[29:23.800 --> 29:25.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's hear what's on your minds.
[29:25.680 --> 29:26.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[29:27.520 --> 29:29.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the, uh...
[29:29.340 --> 29:30.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, hello to you, too.
[29:30.340 --> 29:36.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the Los Angeles Times News Service in yesterday's Staten Island Advance was...
[29:36.460 --> 29:37.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Say Staten Island Advance.
[29:37.980 --> 29:38.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[29:38.580 --> 29:40.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry, yesterday's Staten Island Advance.
[29:40.640 --> 29:44.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: FBI gets a most-wanted computer hacker.
[29:44.420 --> 29:46.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Agent Steele has been caught.
[29:46.320 --> 29:48.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad you, uh, I'm glad you have that story because I don't have it.
[29:48.840 --> 29:49.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Shannon Peterson.
[29:50.040 --> 29:50.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[29:50.380 --> 29:50.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Know him?
[29:50.820 --> 29:52.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Justin Peterson, yes.
[29:52.520 --> 29:53.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, that was Agent Steele.
[29:53.900 --> 29:54.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: He was, uh...
[29:54.620 --> 29:55.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I see.
[29:55.200 --> 29:55.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're right.
[29:55.740 --> 29:56.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Agent Steele.
[29:56.520 --> 29:59.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was a a narc in the hacker world.
[29:59.480 --> 30:11.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: He basically, he basically, uh, deceived everybody because, uh, the federal authorities hired him to spy on the hackers, but then they discovered that he was actually, uh, doing all kinds of illegal things at the same time, so...
[30:11.820 --> 30:16.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: He just claimed that, that, uh, that they ever hired him, as the agencies will do.
[30:17.300 --> 30:17.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[30:18.120 --> 30:19.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And he's going into jail.
[30:19.480 --> 30:23.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, they, uh, they caught him, I believe, uh, two or three days ago.
[30:23.500 --> 30:23.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[30:24.160 --> 30:31.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, that, that, if you recall, was one of the people at Computers Freedom and Privacy that, uh, the FBI people were looking for.
[30:32.660 --> 30:45.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, they, they managed to pull over some poor guy from Hofstra University who happened to have long, dark hair, and they ordered him to, uh, to show them his leg because Agent Steele has a prosthetic, uh, Really?
[30:45.660 --> 30:49.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, and that's also why he wasn't able to run away from them as quickly as he would have liked.
[30:49.720 --> 30:52.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, he ran for a block before they could even catch him.
[30:52.840 --> 30:58.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's, that goes to show, you know, willpower does, uh, does, uh, do you some good, but not enough in this particular case.
[30:58.360 --> 31:03.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, he's, he's scheduled to be, uh, arraigned, I think, on October 31st.
[31:03.540 --> 31:03.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[31:04.020 --> 31:06.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: So he'll be, uh, he's not going to have any bail, I don't think.
[31:06.740 --> 31:09.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, um, uh, uh, yeah, exactly.
[31:09.860 --> 31:27.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it seems that the, the, uh, charges against them are so far out of reality compared to where some other people who steal so much money, like, uh, savings banks and, uh, whitewater cases, they get away with, uh, with hardly a slap on the wrist.
[31:27.640 --> 31:28.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're right, Agent Steele.
[31:29.000 --> 31:38.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but, you know, this is not somebody that I would really call a hacker, to be honest, um, I mean, he, uh, he, he was engaging in some, uh, some, uh, and I immediately thought of you.
[31:38.720 --> 31:41.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was engaging in some pretty nefarious activities there.
[31:41.460 --> 31:48.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I don't know if he should be locked away for the rest of his life, or even for a significant period of time, but, uh, he definitely was not hacking.
[31:48.540 --> 31:50.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, man, he might have been hacking the system to a degree.
[31:50.740 --> 31:51.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a subtle difference.
[31:51.840 --> 31:54.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not that, uh, adroit with the words that you are.
[31:54.540 --> 31:54.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[31:55.400 --> 31:57.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: What, what do you mean he was not hacking?
[31:57.880 --> 32:06.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, a hacker is somebody that tests the limits, is somebody that, that plays with technology, and occasionally, uh, wanders into territories where he's technically not supposed to be.
[32:07.020 --> 32:11.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but a criminal is somebody that, uh, profits from this, that makes money, that steals.
[32:12.120 --> 32:15.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a, you know, to me, the difference is very obvious.
[32:16.140 --> 32:19.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: The article did not go into what he stole, or how he made money.
[32:19.740 --> 32:19.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[32:20.140 --> 32:21.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's because they don't really know.
[32:21.720 --> 32:21.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: I see.
[32:22.000 --> 32:23.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: They just know what, what the, the feds are telling them.
[32:24.120 --> 32:28.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: He faces up to 40 years in prisons, and fines up to 1.5 million.
[32:28.500 --> 32:31.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, you know, what, what you face is always something kind of crazy.
[32:32.400 --> 32:35.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, uh, fiber optic was facing something like 50 years.
[32:35.500 --> 32:39.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I was facing 50 years once, uh, you know, when I was in trouble for hacking.
[32:39.500 --> 32:47.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, they always, uh, give you something really phenomenal to make you, uh, you know, roll over and, and, and talk some more.
[32:47.780 --> 32:48.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[32:48.680 --> 32:53.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm telling the article to Joe King, so if you need an extra copy, ask him for it next week.
[32:53.140 --> 32:53.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I will.
[32:53.700 --> 32:55.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thanks for, uh, for telling us.
[32:55.140 --> 32:55.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[32:55.620 --> 32:56.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, take care.
[32:56.820 --> 33:03.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was the major, um, news event in the hacker world, I guess, uh, for this particular, uh, week.
[33:04.100 --> 33:07.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Agent Steele has, Justice has caught up with him.
[33:07.920 --> 33:09.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: However, Kevin Mitnick is still on the run.
[33:09.920 --> 33:10.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody knows where he is.
[33:11.020 --> 33:13.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's, uh, that's something else we'll be keeping an eye on.
[33:14.620 --> 33:15.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[33:15.280 --> 33:16.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're not on.
[33:16.140 --> 33:16.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[33:16.740 --> 33:17.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[33:17.240 --> 33:17.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on.
[33:17.700 --> 33:18.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening.
[33:18.520 --> 33:33.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, do you have a copy of the press release, uh, on the, um, uh, whatchamacallit, the call ID mandatory nationwide availability and now the notice and order from the FCC that have, um, come out?
[33:34.120 --> 33:38.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, do I have a copy of that, uh, not the final version?
[33:38.120 --> 33:39.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I do not have a copy of the final version.
[33:40.060 --> 33:40.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, okay.
[33:40.800 --> 33:44.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let me have, um, Ms. Hutchings at the FCC send you a copy of that.
[33:44.840 --> 33:45.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's that P.O.
[33:45.580 --> 33:46.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: box number?
[33:46.320 --> 33:49.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you can send that over to, um, send that to P.O.
[33:49.080 --> 33:55.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: box 99 in Middle Island, New York, zip code 11953.
[33:55.520 --> 33:55.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[33:55.920 --> 33:58.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where you can send any kind of information for, for the magazine.
[33:58.400 --> 34:01.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: And so what's, what's the organization name?
[34:01.620 --> 34:03.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, 2600, 2600.
[34:03.500 --> 34:03.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Magazine?
[34:04.220 --> 34:04.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[34:04.740 --> 34:05.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[34:05.760 --> 34:18.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, by, by the way, the address of Citicorp Center, um, not that it would do anyone any good when they get there because it's, there's no single door, uh, at such a location, but it's 153.
[34:18.340 --> 34:19.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: East 53rd.
[34:19.340 --> 34:20.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I remembered it right after I said that.
[34:21.300 --> 34:21.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: 153.
[34:21.760 --> 34:24.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: What else was I going to say to you there?
[34:24.680 --> 34:27.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, anyway, that's about the call.
[34:27.340 --> 34:41.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, I asked her, I think it was today I was talking to her, I said, um, she said it would be unusual for the FCC to have acted so quickly after the response to the comment period.
[34:42.160 --> 34:58.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: First they have the 90-day comment period, and then they have the response to the comment, and now that is closed, and I think it was June, and, um, so this is too early, but she said by the end of the year they should, uh, come to their decision and announce that let's say,
[34:58.820 --> 35:17.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: for example, that that April 12th, uh, 1995 Wednesday, uh, date is final because the carriers have to do certain things to, um, get into, uh, you know, get ready for it, so they have to be given a reasonable amount of time to do so.
[35:18.880 --> 35:31.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, uh, by the way, have you any idea on the 500 service, um, if, if it's going to be dialable as a regular area code from any over, any telephone overseas?
[35:31.900 --> 35:33.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it should be.
[35:33.420 --> 35:45.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, um, some companies in Canada are actually going to be, uh, uh, making use of it as well, so I think it's going to be a regular, uh, area code, although it would be the first SAC, special area code that would be dialable from overseas.
[35:46.380 --> 35:46.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[35:46.660 --> 36:05.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, you know, in, in many countries, the toll-free code, like 678 in Italy or whatever it is for a given country, can be dialed direct from any phone overseas without having to go via call USA or USA direct, which is the only way you can do it if you're calling an 800 number in this country.
[36:06.080 --> 36:10.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to have some real fun, you can call, uh, USA direct numbers from here.
[36:11.060 --> 36:23.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: You can call, I think, uh, Holland, uh, last I checked, you can call, uh, the USA direct number in Holland, which will connect you to an AT&T operator, which will allow you to place calls back to the United States from Holland.
[36:23.540 --> 36:29.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, you can convince anybody that you're in Holland and at the same time pay for two overseas calls at the same time.
[36:29.320 --> 36:42.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, there's a lot of that use, but yes, I, I inadvertently, when I signed up once with Sprint, uh, for some overseas, uh, to, to receive overseas calls from 800, it was a disaster.
[36:42.400 --> 36:47.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: First of all, Hong Kong was changing from 008 to 800.
[36:47.380 --> 36:50.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: So you could dial it either way for one year there.
[36:50.340 --> 37:05.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, um, second, uh, people in hotel rooms in Hong Kong, hotel guests got it bolluxed up so that when they called home to Taiwan, they ended up getting my number and I was paying for all those calls.
[37:05.620 --> 37:25.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, the only two companies that I know of that offer 800 service or toll free service with a pin that you enter after you make the call, you hear boop, boop, and you enter a four digit pin, which completely rules out wrong, uh, number calls to a toll free number are MCI and all net.
[37:25.780 --> 37:26.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh huh.
[37:26.420 --> 37:33.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Neither of them offers it on calls coming in from overseas, which raises one last point, if I may.
[37:33.480 --> 37:44.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, it may have something to do with the quality of the tones because somebody recently has been saying, um, you may not be able to do such and such if you call from overseas.
[37:44.820 --> 37:51.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought when they set up the, the tones that started back what, 1964 was the first tone dialing.
[37:54.920 --> 38:00.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: I all the phones in the world would have to make exactly the same pitch or frequency or whatever it is.
[38:01.060 --> 38:01.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh huh.
[38:01.760 --> 38:02.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is that not so?
[38:02.860 --> 38:03.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Then maybe.
[38:03.660 --> 38:04.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um.
[38:04.600 --> 38:07.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe if they work with their company's dialing switches.
[38:08.120 --> 38:08.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard.
[38:08.600 --> 38:10.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Their local companies, but not.
[38:10.240 --> 38:11.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm going to let Rop address that.
[38:12.020 --> 38:13.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, thanks for the call.
[38:13.180 --> 38:14.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to move on afterwards.
[38:14.660 --> 38:14.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.
[38:15.320 --> 38:19.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Touchstones are the same everywhere, at least everywhere I've been of her or heard from.
[38:19.520 --> 38:20.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly the same, right?
[38:20.540 --> 38:20.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah.
[38:21.220 --> 38:25.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that, uh, many countries don't have many Touch-Tone phones.
[38:25.260 --> 38:26.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: They use pulse only.
[38:26.840 --> 38:31.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Like even fairly sophisticated countries like Germany have almost no tone phones.
[38:31.980 --> 38:33.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's pulse only.
[38:33.560 --> 38:35.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're moving straight to ISDN now.
[38:35.880 --> 38:36.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[38:36.100 --> 38:36.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Skipping over that.
[38:36.860 --> 38:44.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, uh, when I, when I visited Inuit, uh, natives in, um, upper Canada, they, they, they want, go from handwriting.
[38:44.440 --> 38:47.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: They skip over the typewriter stage and they go straight into max.
[38:47.940 --> 38:49.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's, that's really an incredible jump.
[38:50.100 --> 38:53.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, as in Germany, they're skipping over the touchdowns and going straight into ISDN.
[38:54.240 --> 38:54.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[38:55.100 --> 39:12.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the other thing as far as the, the 500 special area code, um, it may be dialable from overseas, but many countries, Holland has now gotten pretty good about it, but many countries take weeks, if not sometimes months before they update extra area codes in the,
[39:12.200 --> 39:13.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: uh, in America or other countries.
[39:14.460 --> 39:22.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's even countries in the world where area codes have existed for months and months and months without the rest of the world being able to dial them.
[39:22.480 --> 39:30.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's no really uniform system in place worldwide to tell phone companies what the area codes in countries are.
[39:31.240 --> 39:47.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: And more and more phone companies are beginning to, um, to select out wrong numbers by area, by non-existent area codes locally as you dial out of, of one country instead of when you dial into the other country to save bandwidth on the international lines.
[39:48.120 --> 39:50.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, but that's getting better now.
[39:50.240 --> 39:51.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: At least it is from Holland.
[39:51.340 --> 39:55.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't noticed any major faults in that for at least a half a year.
[39:56.380 --> 40:06.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, as far as country direct services, we, the, the Holland direct, Nederland direct service that's available from overseas has phone numbers in Amsterdam that they translate to.
[40:07.060 --> 40:16.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: So every international number in some country worldwide, like the 1-800 number for it, translates to an Amsterdam phone number, a regular Amsterdam phone number.
[40:16.520 --> 40:26.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have this list of Amsterdam phone numbers, we scan them out once, uh, you can actually dial ordinary local calls in Amsterdam and pretend to be coming into Nederland direct from all these different countries.
[40:27.240 --> 40:32.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: So one night we were calling the operator from all these different countries and drove them really nuts.
[40:32.780 --> 40:41.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: So probably AT&T has, or has a normal phone number that, that the country direct for a given country translates to.
[40:41.920 --> 40:44.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you find these out, you can just dial... That would be fun.
[40:44.520 --> 40:45.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: That would be a lot of fun to find those out.
[40:45.940 --> 40:47.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Save yourself a pretty penny, too.
[40:47.600 --> 40:51.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you can pay for only one overseas call while you're actually making a national call.
[40:51.420 --> 40:51.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[40:52.900 --> 40:57.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, some new area codes that I just found out about this, um, uh, this week.
[40:58.040 --> 41:04.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Area code, believe it or not, 540 has been assigned to parts of Virginia.
[41:04.240 --> 41:06.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be part of a 703 area code split.
[41:07.660 --> 41:11.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: 540 will be the new area code starting in July of 1995.
[41:11.960 --> 41:14.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there'll be a permissive dialing period of a year.
[41:14.360 --> 41:20.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, what's kind of funny about that is 540 is, um, is a pay service here in this country.
[41:21.220 --> 41:27.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, I imagine there'll be some confusion, particularly in places like Long Island where a 1 is not required.
[41:27.860 --> 41:31.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Although it will be, uh, a 1 will be required later in September, I believe.
[41:32.180 --> 41:34.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but it still is going to cause quite a bit of confusion.
[41:35.260 --> 41:38.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: 540 plus 4 numbers, you don't know what you're going to be charged.
[41:39.060 --> 41:42.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could be charged $75 for calling a 540 number, just like that.
[41:42.980 --> 41:51.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, there was a scandal, uh, a year or so ago about somebody who was beeping people with his 540 numbers that they'd call it and, and he'd make all kinds of profits.
[41:52.700 --> 42:02.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so when you get a number in the 540 area code, that's, uh, I don't know, some people might not want to call that right away.
[42:02.900 --> 42:03.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Who knows?
[42:04.140 --> 42:09.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, the other area code is 630 and that will be what's known as an overlay area code.
[42:09.440 --> 42:10.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, similar to 917.
[42:11.580 --> 42:16.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, 917 here in New York is for beepers, cellular phones, things like that.
[42:17.240 --> 42:23.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, also 562 is an overlay for Los Angeles that will be taking effect next year.
[42:23.360 --> 42:29.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: And 610 is an overlay for Chicago as soon as they're running out of phone numbers because of all the beepers and cellular phones.
[42:30.220 --> 42:32.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: So those, uh, those are the new area codes.
[42:32.500 --> 42:34.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: 630 will be taking effect in January of next year.
[42:34.780 --> 42:36.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: So that one is coming a bit sooner.
[42:36.620 --> 42:40.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: It'll keep you updated as to, uh, all kinds of other weird and strange area codes.
[42:41.520 --> 42:42.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[42:42.200 --> 42:51.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's, uh, oh, by the way, I also heard that, uh, the new Manhattan telephone books have a listing of, um, of area codes in the front of the phone book.
[42:52.500 --> 43:00.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the area codes is 710 and 710 is, um, is listed as U S government.
[43:01.340 --> 43:09.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now 710 has always been listed as U S government on various files that float around on the Internet, but this is the first time that it's shown up in a phone book that way.
[43:09.660 --> 43:17.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like, you know, the people at the phone company grabbed a file off the Internet and, and, and printed it in the phone book saying, here's a list of area codes, just like, you know, any hacker would do.
[43:18.000 --> 43:24.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but yeah, now they say 710 is, uh, is, is, is government, U S government, and they, they don't really go into any more detail.
[43:25.620 --> 43:31.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing is, if you call an operator and ask them, they will say they've never heard of the 710 area code.
[43:31.520 --> 43:34.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's anybody's guess as to what that's all about.
[43:34.200 --> 43:36.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll be, uh, keeping you informed on that.
[43:36.380 --> 43:36.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[43:36.960 --> 43:37.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on.
[43:37.620 --> 43:37.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[43:37.880 --> 43:38.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi.
[43:38.160 --> 43:50.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to know, uh, as far as barcodes in, um, uh, stores, uh, like supermarkets, I was wondering if you were to, let's say, cover, you know, like you buy something for like, that's cost $3.
[43:51.120 --> 44:03.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you, you know, copy the barcode and you place it over, you know, you put it on a white, um, label and you put, you know, it's covered with like a metal thing, a little bit like a little metal.
[44:03.660 --> 44:04.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: You ever see those labels?
[44:05.100 --> 44:05.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[44:05.860 --> 44:19.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you put that label, let's say for a dollar product barcode on that $3, you know, whatever, uh, product that you have over that and would read out, uh, when it check it out on a dollar item.
[44:19.240 --> 44:26.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you cover the first barcode with your barcode, if you cover the first barcode with your barcode, yes, that's exactly what will happen.
[44:27.300 --> 44:30.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, your barcode will, will scan the machine first.
[44:30.880 --> 44:31.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[44:31.240 --> 44:37.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, theoretically, you could actually buy stuff and just bypass their whole, you know, security system.
[44:37.080 --> 44:40.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it would make a great business to, uh, to have, you know, do-it-yourself barcodes.
[44:40.760 --> 44:46.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: You just simply hand out barcodes with, with sticky stuff on the back and just go around slapping it on all the items in the store.
[44:46.360 --> 44:46.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[44:46.960 --> 44:48.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you save millions of dollars that way.
[44:48.420 --> 44:51.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, uh, similar to a Saturday night, Saturday night skit.
[44:52.160 --> 44:52.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Skit.
[44:52.780 --> 44:53.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[44:53.220 --> 44:54.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to say sketch and skit at the same time.
[44:55.520 --> 44:59.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, where someone went around with a, with a price, uh, you know, a price labeler.
[44:59.700 --> 45:00.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do-it-yourself price labeling.
[45:01.200 --> 45:01.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[45:01.580 --> 45:05.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, get this, uh, this, uh, 50 pound bag of dog food for three cents.
[45:05.820 --> 45:05.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[45:05.980 --> 45:12.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you just have to, um, keep in mind that on the printout, it's going to say what it is that you're buying.
[45:12.500 --> 45:22.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, a somewhat savvy, uh, uh, cashier might wonder why you're buying, you know, every item that you're ringing up comes up as strawberry Pop-Tarts.
[45:22.640 --> 45:22.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[45:24.020 --> 45:26.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that, uh, you might want to keep an eye on.
[45:26.080 --> 45:27.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's illegal to do.
[45:27.160 --> 45:29.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, that's, you get arrested for that.
[45:29.200 --> 45:29.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what do you think?
[45:30.060 --> 45:31.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it's illegal to do that?
[45:31.320 --> 45:32.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: They can't prove that you actually did it.
[45:32.960 --> 45:36.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is an example of how you know when you're crossing the line.
[45:36.560 --> 45:44.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, obviously, if you stick something like that on and you walk through a checkout and, and you pay 49 cents for something that's worth $6, it's a crime.
[45:44.520 --> 45:46.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're stealing something, obviously.
[45:46.760 --> 45:50.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, how can you prove that I actually, you know, okay, let's say you're the cash.
[45:51.200 --> 45:52.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, but that's not the point.
[45:52.600 --> 45:54.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether or not they can prove you did it, that's not the point.
[45:54.640 --> 45:56.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: The point is you have to know you're committing a crime.
[45:56.540 --> 45:56.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[45:57.000 --> 45:59.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's pretty obvious you're committing a crime if you do that.
[45:59.040 --> 46:00.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you get away with it, you get away with it.
[46:00.480 --> 46:02.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, figuring it out, that's one thing.
[46:02.220 --> 46:09.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you can figure out how their barcodes work and design a barcode of your own that will bypass the whole thing, that's, that's pretty good that you can do that.
[46:09.220 --> 46:11.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basic barcode, the, the, right, the, um, what do you call it?
[46:12.000 --> 46:14.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: The, what's the basic barcode called?
[46:14.740 --> 46:16.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, a bi-pad number, I believe.
[46:16.280 --> 46:17.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's like a universal product code.
[46:18.020 --> 46:18.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[46:18.840 --> 46:19.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: UPC symbol.
[46:19.720 --> 46:19.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[46:19.840 --> 46:20.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's what they're using.
[46:21.560 --> 46:23.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it's very easy to bypass that.
[46:23.640 --> 46:25.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you have to use a label.
[46:25.900 --> 46:26.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can use any label.
[46:26.880 --> 46:28.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have to use something with the barcode.
[46:28.840 --> 46:32.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have to use a regular label, like a white label covering their barcode.
[46:32.760 --> 46:34.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can pretty much use anything.
[46:35.000 --> 46:37.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hang on, we have to break for one moment.
[46:37.280 --> 46:38.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back in just a second.
[46:48.890 --> 46:51.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, remember I said there was a surprise.
[46:51.950 --> 46:53.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, here's the surprise.
[46:54.490 --> 46:54.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Surprise!
[46:56.230 --> 46:57.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: Fiberoptic, how are you?
[46:57.030 --> 46:57.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[46:58.350 --> 47:01.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: You've got a lousy line here, but we're going to have to make do with it.
[47:01.490 --> 47:02.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're calling us live.
[47:03.350 --> 47:04.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, live.
[47:04.650 --> 47:10.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to bother going into how this was worked out, but let's just thank our stars we were able to do this.
[47:11.430 --> 47:17.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the first time you've talked live in this program since you went away in January.
[47:17.470 --> 47:18.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Since before you went away in January.
[47:19.630 --> 47:19.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[47:20.670 --> 47:23.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: So tell us, how are things with you right now?
[47:25.130 --> 47:25.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Very boring.
[47:26.230 --> 47:26.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Very slow.
[47:27.030 --> 47:27.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[47:27.730 --> 47:29.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're going to make things a little more exciting for you.
[47:30.010 --> 47:30.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: How's that?
[47:30.810 --> 47:36.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to hook you up with some people calling in, and you can say hi to them, they can say hi to you.
[47:36.730 --> 47:40.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Fiberoptic is on the phone lines with us tonight, 212-279-3400.
[47:41.570 --> 47:45.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: We just read part of that horrible article in the City News.
[47:46.170 --> 47:46.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[47:47.030 --> 47:48.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: What was your take on that?
[47:48.670 --> 47:50.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I thought it was terrible.
[47:50.850 --> 47:55.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: The guy obviously didn't pay attention to anything that I said in the interview.
[47:55.490 --> 47:55.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[47:56.310 --> 47:58.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's really sad that you wasted time with that.
[47:59.190 --> 47:59.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I know.
[48:00.690 --> 48:06.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: How are things as far as your activities, your job, and all that kind of thing?
[48:07.030 --> 48:13.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I have a really great job buffing the floor in the building that we live in.
[48:13.690 --> 48:15.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us that buffing adventure.
[48:15.930 --> 48:17.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: You told me about this about a week ago.
[48:17.430 --> 48:18.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is quite a story.
[48:18.770 --> 48:20.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, the one where I lost control of the buffer?
[48:20.990 --> 48:21.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: You lost control.
[48:21.810 --> 48:26.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, a buffer, by the way, is one of those big machinery things that people use to clean floors.
[48:26.770 --> 48:30.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: And Mark's job now is to buff floors, but it didn't quite work out that way.
[48:31.130 --> 48:34.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's just like the guy you see in the department stores buffing the floors.
[48:35.150 --> 48:36.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Basically, that's what I do.
[48:36.610 --> 48:40.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I shine the floor up nice so that when we have inspections, the floor is nice and shiny.
[48:41.950 --> 48:46.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: But apparently, I had a little mishap a week or so ago.
[48:47.110 --> 48:50.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: What happened was that the switch on the handle of the buffer was broken.
[48:51.090 --> 48:54.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that the buffer stayed permanently on when you plugged it in.
[48:55.630 --> 49:03.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the buffer, since the pad spins around on the bottom, it has a tendency to want to spin unless you're holding on to the handle.
[49:03.790 --> 49:09.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, wouldn't you know it, I lost my grip on the handle and the buffer started spinning around violently and uncontrollably.
[49:10.950 --> 49:13.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was knocking me around a little bit.
[49:13.870 --> 49:19.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: This huge machine spinning as fast as the little scrubbing part is supposed to spin.
[49:20.350 --> 49:21.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was kind of funny, actually.
[49:21.830 --> 49:22.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was a little shook up.
[49:23.650 --> 49:24.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I got over it.
[49:25.070 --> 49:28.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I kind of had a fear of the buffer a day or two afterwards.
[49:29.030 --> 49:29.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Fear of the buffer, yeah.
[49:30.090 --> 49:32.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: But there was actually a danger to you, was there not?
[49:32.870 --> 49:34.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, well, yeah.
[49:34.930 --> 49:42.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: In some of the other buffers that I had used, there were metal bristles on the under part that hold the pads onto the buffer.
[49:43.470 --> 49:55.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if, in fact, they would have been metal, which they weren't, I was lucky that there were plastic bristles on this particular buffing machine, it probably would have ripped my shoes apart and my feet along with it.
[49:56.210 --> 50:03.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because as the buffer flew out of control, it ran my feet over and bumped me up against the wall and all kinds of fun things like that.
[50:03.310 --> 50:13.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, if there are any buffers out there that can offer some tips for fiber optic in his buffing career over there at School Kill, well, they'll call in, I guess.
[50:14.030 --> 50:16.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're going to take some quick phone calls.
[50:16.110 --> 50:25.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: And we ask people, please keep it short and just call in to say hi to Mark, because this is the first chance he's had to say hi to you in however many months.
[50:25.690 --> 50:26.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been eight months.
[50:27.010 --> 50:29.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to try and get through as many calls as we can.
[50:29.250 --> 50:32.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's try to keep each one to about 30 seconds or so so we can get a fair number in.
[50:33.490 --> 50:36.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, 212-279-3400, let's take our first one.
[50:36.770 --> 50:37.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[50:38.110 --> 50:39.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, this is Rosa Field.
[50:40.050 --> 50:40.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[50:40.970 --> 50:43.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, Fiber, this is Rosa Field.
[50:43.330 --> 50:44.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you not getting feedback, right?
[50:45.110 --> 50:46.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, just from you.
[50:47.890 --> 50:49.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a message for Fiber?
[50:50.090 --> 50:51.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you've got to eat more.
[50:52.130 --> 50:54.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've got to eat more and work out in the gym.
[50:56.190 --> 50:58.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: And lift with your legs, not with your back.
[51:00.330 --> 51:01.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: She's right about that.
[51:01.150 --> 51:06.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Use your body weight by bending your knees as a counterbalance and you'll be able to control that thing.
[51:07.110 --> 51:10.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you missed out on a really good lawsuit against the prison systems.
[51:10.810 --> 51:19.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could have been a millionaire by now if you had worn slippers or bare feet when that thing went out of control.
[51:19.870 --> 51:23.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, next time we'll try to get him injured so that he can make some money off it.
[51:24.750 --> 51:26.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for the tips there.
[51:26.230 --> 51:28.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: And let's see if any other people have similar tips.
[51:28.930 --> 51:29.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[51:29.750 --> 51:31.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, just one question to Fiber.
[51:31.330 --> 51:32.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Fiber, hi, it's me.
[51:32.710 --> 51:34.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: You remember this voice, don't you, Fiber?
[51:34.550 --> 51:35.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I remember you, Fiber.
[51:35.470 --> 51:36.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you remember me.
[51:36.830 --> 51:42.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: I remember you telling me that you had a trouble with Loctel, the telephone company in Pennsylvania.
[51:42.890 --> 51:43.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: Loctel, yeah.
[51:43.630 --> 51:45.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, has anybody gotten a bill from Loctel yet?
[51:45.630 --> 51:47.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: No one that I've called Collector.
[51:47.650 --> 51:49.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or you called Stacy, Collector, something?
[51:50.030 --> 51:53.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's, well, all right, Mark, explain the phone system to us quickly.
[51:53.890 --> 51:59.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's since been repaired, but initially they had pretty much destroyed the phone system all by themselves.
[51:59.690 --> 52:03.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they had put in a makeshift system that was collect calls only.
[52:04.150 --> 52:07.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was really hectic because there were no restrictions.
[52:07.830 --> 52:09.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyone could call anywhere, collect.
[52:09.910 --> 52:12.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's over 300 people here.
[52:12.310 --> 52:14.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's less than half a dozen phones.
[52:14.890 --> 52:16.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Even if it was blocked, you could call Collector?
[52:16.990 --> 52:17.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[52:17.250 --> 52:23.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, now, when somebody gets the bill, they should get a bill from Loctel, and there should be an 800 number there that...
[52:23.310 --> 52:26.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Obviously, that's what I've been telling people, but no one's gotten a bill yet.
[52:26.530 --> 52:31.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: And no one's been able to find out where this mysterious Loctel is located, or even how you spell the name.
[52:31.530 --> 52:32.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a bill, you get the 800 number.
[52:32.950 --> 52:34.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, except no one's gotten a bill yet.
[52:34.410 --> 52:35.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the problem.
[52:35.110 --> 52:36.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, who you call Collector?
[52:37.350 --> 52:41.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're polling everybody that he's called Collector, and hopefully we'll have a bill from Loctel real soon.
[52:41.990 --> 52:43.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for the call there.
[52:43.130 --> 52:44.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[52:45.470 --> 52:46.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[52:47.070 --> 52:50.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, I'd like to speak with Fiber.
[52:50.990 --> 52:51.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, make it quick.
[52:51.830 --> 52:52.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here I am.
[52:53.050 --> 52:54.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I have...
[52:55.630 --> 52:56.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what to say.
[52:56.750 --> 52:57.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very recent at this.
[52:57.890 --> 53:00.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just dropped by the 2600 over New York.
[53:04.030 --> 53:05.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you have about 10 seconds left, and you're 30.
[53:06.470 --> 53:12.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm just telling you, yes, knowledge is power, and unfortunately we have a lot of people in high places that don't like us.
[53:12.590 --> 53:13.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all I can say right now.
[53:14.430 --> 53:15.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Have a good evening.
[53:15.570 --> 53:16.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you later, okay?
[53:16.450 --> 53:17.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[53:17.490 --> 53:17.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye.
[53:18.750 --> 53:19.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take another call.
[53:19.850 --> 53:20.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[53:22.150 --> 53:22.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Speak up, please.
[53:23.910 --> 53:24.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: What?
[53:24.290 --> 53:25.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, you're on.
[53:31.510 --> 53:32.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: New York Magazine.
[53:33.010 --> 53:34.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, don't say that.
[53:34.570 --> 53:35.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: I hate New York Magazine.
[53:35.790 --> 53:37.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: That article was a piece of garbage.
[53:38.030 --> 53:38.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[53:38.490 --> 53:39.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was.
[53:39.890 --> 53:43.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was written in cyberspeak or some crazy thing like that.
[53:44.430 --> 53:45.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which issue was it in?
[53:45.810 --> 53:47.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: I didn't get to have a chance...
[53:47.190 --> 53:48.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's the current one.
[53:48.290 --> 53:49.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was last week's.
[53:50.110 --> 53:53.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's the one that you'll probably find in dumpsters around the city.
[53:54.450 --> 53:54.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
[53:55.470 --> 53:56.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thank you very much.
[53:56.570 --> 53:56.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[53:57.790 --> 54:00.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean to be so hard on the press, but...
[54:00.170 --> 54:02.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, actually, I take that back, I do.
[54:02.850 --> 54:03.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[54:04.410 --> 54:05.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, hello?
[54:05.350 --> 54:05.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, go ahead.
[54:06.290 --> 54:06.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[54:07.030 --> 54:08.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I have...
[54:09.130 --> 54:10.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have a 950 number.
[54:11.190 --> 54:12.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you're familiar with those.
[54:13.230 --> 54:13.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yes.
[54:13.950 --> 54:25.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, um, I dial out from them, and I wanted to know if they could be traced from the number that you're calling from, if the actual station can trace the number that you're dialing from.
[54:26.170 --> 54:27.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Fiber, what would you say to this person?
[54:27.790 --> 54:28.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I have some advice.
[54:28.690 --> 54:29.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, do you know where I am?
[54:31.310 --> 54:32.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think you should stick to Sega.
[54:33.490 --> 54:34.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[54:34.090 --> 54:34.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or maybe Nintendo.
[54:35.370 --> 54:36.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, thanks.
[54:36.370 --> 54:36.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[54:37.130 --> 54:37.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good advice there.
[54:38.090 --> 54:38.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[54:39.470 --> 54:43.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, I just wanted to say that, uh, Fiber, you're my idol, you're the greatest.
[54:44.030 --> 54:44.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's it.
[54:44.910 --> 54:45.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye.
[54:45.470 --> 54:46.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[54:47.490 --> 54:48.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[54:48.770 --> 54:49.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, yeah.
[54:49.770 --> 54:54.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, if you're in, like, London, England, and you want to get an 800 number in America, how can you do it?
[54:55.890 --> 54:58.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Rop, do you have a suggestion on that?
[54:58.810 --> 55:00.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Call an American friend and have him three-way you.
[55:01.090 --> 55:02.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: You mean an 800 number here?
[55:02.670 --> 55:03.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[55:03.070 --> 55:09.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you're in London, how can you get an 800 number, you know, to call a company in, in, in, uh, yeah, I know what you're saying.
[55:10.050 --> 55:15.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: So in other words, call a friend in America and ask him to, but that means you've got to call a friend and ask him to dial the 800 number, correct?
[55:15.710 --> 55:18.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or, or find out a local number that you can dial from there.
[55:18.590 --> 55:23.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: But you can't dial 800 numbers unless they, they have a special 800 number over there.
[55:23.330 --> 55:24.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: A special toll-free number, that is.
[55:24.870 --> 55:25.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I see.
[55:25.890 --> 55:27.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so it's impossible, then.
[55:27.430 --> 55:28.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's not easy.
[55:30.690 --> 55:33.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can't do it with a phone card or some...
[55:33.390 --> 55:34.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Fiber, any advice?
[55:34.890 --> 55:36.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, you can't do it with a phone card.
[55:36.870 --> 55:40.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like they said, the easiest thing I could think of is to call somebody in the States and have them three-way.
[55:40.810 --> 55:45.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sometimes you can convince, uh, an operator to transfer you, but it's very unlikely that they'll do that.
[55:45.710 --> 55:45.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[55:46.450 --> 55:46.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
[55:46.990 --> 55:47.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, guy.
[55:47.710 --> 55:48.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for calling.
[55:48.430 --> 55:48.530]  Bye.
[55:49.630 --> 55:50.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[55:50.950 --> 55:53.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hey, Mark, uh, it's good to hear from you again.
[55:53.990 --> 55:55.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, two, two quick questions.
[55:55.930 --> 56:00.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: First, did you get all the letters that, um, and the cards we wrote at Hope for you?
[56:00.550 --> 56:01.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, sure, yeah.
[56:01.790 --> 56:02.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm glad you got them.
[56:02.910 --> 56:04.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: I bet that was some good reading.
[56:04.390 --> 56:08.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Second question, uh, did you get any of those cool-looking jailhouse tattoos?
[56:09.930 --> 56:10.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Jailhouse tattoos?
[56:10.890 --> 56:12.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I can't say that I...
[56:13.550 --> 56:15.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: I hope to see you on the outside soon.
[56:15.870 --> 56:16.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[56:18.070 --> 56:21.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, that's, uh, that's a whole world that you haven't looked into yet, isn't it?
[56:22.710 --> 56:23.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: Jailhouse tattoos.
[56:23.910 --> 56:26.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm sure if you ask around, you'll find...
[56:26.270 --> 56:28.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you'll find a whole thriving world there.
[56:28.570 --> 56:29.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, good evening, you're on.
[56:30.210 --> 56:36.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, I can't believe that someone as cool as a fiber optic and you, Mr. Goldberg...
[56:36.570 --> 56:37.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Goldstein.
[56:37.350 --> 56:42.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: ...would not know the easy, uh, way to call to 800 numbers in this country from overseas.
[56:42.590 --> 56:45.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're going to tell us, but you're going to tell us in less than 30 seconds, right?
[56:45.270 --> 56:56.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Country that's a USA direct as far as AT&T goes, and they connect only to AT&T 800 numbers, uh, call USA program of, uh, MCI.
[56:56.530 --> 56:59.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: They, they don't, it can be any carrier or Sprint Express.
[56:59.890 --> 57:03.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: You, you dial the special access number in the country.
[57:03.790 --> 57:04.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[57:04.270 --> 57:04.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: Charge.
[57:04.870 --> 57:08.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, you have to, you have to be able to pay for it.
[57:08.370 --> 57:12.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: I assume what the caller meant by phone card was a calling card.
[57:12.530 --> 57:13.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, wait, if I can just interrupt here.
[57:14.150 --> 57:16.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: First, you have to know what kind of 800 number it is?
[57:16.310 --> 57:17.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: What company owns it?
[57:17.670 --> 57:18.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no.
[57:18.430 --> 57:19.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, you don't, so...
[57:19.090 --> 57:30.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, no, only if it's AT&T, uh, where you call, um, 0800-890-111 or 0011, uh, in...
[57:30.290 --> 57:31.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait a minute, I've got the list.
[57:31.250 --> 57:32.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we don't have time for this.
[57:32.410 --> 57:36.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, because, uh, we have fiber on the line, so we have to, uh, kind of pay attention to him.
[57:36.790 --> 57:39.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, this is the kind of information we want to give out in future programs.
[57:39.970 --> 57:42.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, let's take one or two more phone calls real quick.
[57:42.350 --> 57:43.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, you're on.
[57:46.330 --> 57:47.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, how's it going, Mark?
[57:47.670 --> 57:53.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, well, I've seen better days, but, uh, in, in less than three months, I'll see better days.
[57:53.350 --> 57:53.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[57:54.110 --> 57:55.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, well, best of luck, guys.
[57:56.030 --> 57:57.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is it just me, or are we getting a lot of boneheads tonight?
[57:58.290 --> 58:03.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I don't, I don't want to call people boneheads, um, but, I mean, there are boneheads out there.
[58:03.330 --> 58:04.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they're calling us.
[58:05.490 --> 58:07.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly a lot of boneheads in control, I'll say that.
[58:07.630 --> 58:08.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, and I didn't make it to Hope.
[58:08.670 --> 58:09.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry I missed it.
[58:09.550 --> 58:10.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's too bad.
[58:10.250 --> 58:12.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, there'll be another one one millennia, so...
[58:12.510 --> 58:13.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, take care.
[58:13.570 --> 58:13.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[58:14.070 --> 58:14.150]  Bye.
[58:14.630 --> 58:16.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have a lot of boneheads there, don't you, Mark?
[58:16.550 --> 58:17.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, there's tons.
[58:17.430 --> 58:17.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[58:18.370 --> 58:22.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's where the boneheads go, is, uh, is, is places like, uh, where you are.
[58:22.530 --> 58:24.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's plenty of boneheads that get jobs here, too.
[58:24.670 --> 58:24.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[58:25.350 --> 58:26.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's true.
[58:26.190 --> 58:30.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, those boneheads in the audience that are looking for something to do, well, I'm sure there's openings, uh, in place.
[58:30.970 --> 58:32.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have a future in the Bureau of Prisons.
[58:32.630 --> 58:32.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[58:33.210 --> 58:36.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, we don't want you to criticize them too much, because who knows what they'll do.
[58:36.190 --> 58:40.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but how about some closing words for us here, and, um...
[58:40.310 --> 58:50.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I appreciate all the mail that I've been getting from people, and, uh, I'm, I'm really happy that I was able to, uh, take this opportunity to call and hear from people on the outside.
[58:51.930 --> 58:52.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[58:52.250 --> 58:53.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, it won't be very long now.
[58:53.990 --> 58:56.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like I said, it'll be less than three months, and I'll be home.
[58:57.030 --> 59:00.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: The exact date, if anyone's curious, is November 22nd.
[59:00.890 --> 59:04.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, I'm sure we'll be marking that on our calendars and, uh, planning something.
[59:05.050 --> 59:05.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: When's the party?
[59:07.350 --> 59:08.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, when's the party?
[59:08.410 --> 59:08.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[59:08.970 --> 59:10.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't think, I don't think you have a say in that, Mark.
[59:11.190 --> 59:12.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, that's true.
[59:12.190 --> 59:14.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's something that, uh, we'll have to decide on this end.
[59:14.370 --> 59:14.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's nice to me.
[59:15.210 --> 59:15.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[59:15.630 --> 59:18.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, we'll, we'll think of something, and we're all into a suggestion here.
[59:19.030 --> 59:21.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Mark, give out your address, so people can write to you.
[59:21.290 --> 59:25.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, it's, uh, my name, Mark Abeni, A-B-E-N-E.
[59:26.210 --> 59:34.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: My number is 3-2-1-0-9-0-5-4, and this is F-T-E-N-E.
[59:34.590 --> 59:49.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: F-T-E-C, as in Federal Prison Camp, Schoolkill, S-C-H-U-Y-L-K-I-L-L, and I'm in Unit 1, and this is Minersville, Pennsylvania.
[59:50.010 --> 59:53.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Miner, as in the guy that digs for coal, and not the adolescent.
[59:53.410 --> 59:54.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: And not Minerville.
[59:54.570 --> 59:55.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, and not Minerville.
[59:55.970 --> 59:56.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: Was that a click?
[59:56.930 --> 59:57.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, not yet.
[59:57.710 --> 59:57.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[59:58.470 --> 01:00:00.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the zip code is...
[01:00:00.330 --> 01:00:01.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, sorry, I forgot the P.O.
[01:00:01.810 --> 01:00:02.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Box.
[01:00:02.130 --> 01:00:02.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: The P.O.
[01:00:02.510 --> 01:00:03.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Box is 670.
[01:00:03.910 --> 01:00:04.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[01:00:04.990 --> 01:00:11.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's Minersville, Pennsylvania, and the zip is 17954-0670.
[01:00:11.750 --> 01:00:13.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: And what do you want people to send?
[01:00:13.810 --> 01:00:14.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, just anything.
[01:00:14.770 --> 01:00:16.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just like hearing from people.
[01:00:16.410 --> 01:00:20.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: It reminds me that there's, uh, there's a world out there that I'm missing while I'm here.
[01:00:22.050 --> 01:00:24.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's, uh, let's hear some of that prison sound in the background.
[01:00:25.070 --> 01:00:25.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you hold the phone up?
[01:00:26.850 --> 01:00:27.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:33.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's kind of quiet there now.
[01:00:33.160 --> 01:00:34.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if you could really hear anything.
[01:00:34.120 --> 01:00:37.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, we could hear it while you were talking, but we couldn't hear anything, uh, just now.
[01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:37.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, well.
[01:00:38.620 --> 01:00:39.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no fights or anything going on?
[01:00:40.140 --> 01:00:40.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, nothing like that.
[01:00:41.020 --> 01:00:41.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[01:00:41.700 --> 01:00:43.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Mark, it's great hearing from you.
[01:00:43.340 --> 01:00:44.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully we can do this again.
[01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:49.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised it took us eight months to do it, uh, live on the air, but it's great hearing you live on the air again.
[01:00:50.080 --> 01:00:50.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:53.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: And only a couple of months before we hear you right here in the studio.
[01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:54.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I look forward to...
[01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:56.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, there's the magic click.
[01:00:56.100 --> 01:00:57.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the magic click.
[01:00:57.240 --> 01:01:00.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that means that, uh, we have less than a minute, uh, on the phone with you.
[01:01:00.680 --> 01:01:03.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but we're out of time already, so we're going to have to, uh, to sign off now.
[01:01:04.460 --> 01:01:08.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, again, thanks very much for calling in and, um, keep in touch, eh?
[01:01:08.600 --> 01:01:09.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:09.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:11.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's our program for tonight.
[01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to thank everybody who called in.
[01:01:13.520 --> 01:01:14.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank those of you for listening.
[01:01:20.810 --> 01:01:24.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be back again next week for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:01:24.070 --> 01:01:29.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Until then, stay well, and keep reading the papers, and don't be too pessimistic.
[01:01:30.070 --> 01:01:33.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Stay tuned for a rebroadcast of the WBAI Evening News.
[01:01:33.750 --> 01:01:34.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good night.