Off The Hook - 1994-10-05

[00:03.600 --> 00:10.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this is radio station WBAI, where it's just about 10 o'clock.
[00:11.240 --> 00:13.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[01:23.200 --> 01:24.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:24.800 --> 01:25.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:26.150 --> 01:27.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Off the Hook is the program.
[01:27.360 --> 01:28.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're here until 10 o'clock.
[01:28.820 --> 01:30.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, no, we're here until 11 o'clock.
[01:30.240 --> 01:31.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: We start at 10 o'clock, that's it.
[01:31.900 --> 01:33.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it had to happen eventually.
[01:33.220 --> 01:36.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: We all knew this was going to occur at some point in our lives.
[01:36.980 --> 01:41.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, the major music industry has taken note of the phone system.
[01:41.600 --> 01:45.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there is now a song out called Star 69.
[01:49.430 --> 01:50.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: R.E.M.
[04:53.340 --> 04:58.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: And speaking of Star 69, I just picked up a copy of the phone book.
[04:59.100 --> 05:02.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And right on the back of the phone book, it's this big advertisement.
[05:02.640 --> 05:03.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not in time.
[05:03.780 --> 05:05.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Press Star 69.
[05:05.720 --> 05:06.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The phone rang.
[05:07.320 --> 05:08.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: You rushed in to get it.
[05:09.320 --> 05:10.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: A second too late.
[05:12.160 --> 05:13.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: No problem.
[05:13.140 --> 05:15.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks to Call Return from NYNEX.
[05:15.320 --> 05:17.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just pick up and press Star 69.
[05:18.200 --> 05:23.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or if you haven't given in and paid the blackmail fee for Touchtone, dial 1169.
[05:24.960 --> 05:27.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: You'll be connected to the last number that called you.
[05:28.080 --> 05:33.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if the other line is busy, Call Return will keep trying incessantly for up to half an hour.
[05:34.800 --> 05:37.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: It even rings you back when the call goes through.
[05:37.440 --> 05:39.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, what good would it be if it didn't do that?
[05:39.500 --> 05:40.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, come on.
[05:41.760 --> 05:46.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you can use Call Return anytime in most areas listed below.
[05:48.340 --> 05:50.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: And listed below are area codes.
[05:51.280 --> 05:53.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212, 516, 718, 914.
[05:54.180 --> 05:58.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can use it anytime for just 75 cents per use.
[05:59.920 --> 06:04.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So next time you're not in time, press Star 69 to get back that call you missed.
[06:07.040 --> 06:09.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow, I wonder what will happen if we dial Star 69 here.
[06:09.740 --> 06:10.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's try it.
[06:10.780 --> 06:12.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see if we get back the last person who called us.
[06:13.500 --> 06:14.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dial tone there, okay.
[06:16.560 --> 06:17.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what we get.
[06:18.140 --> 06:19.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I get that little tone.
[06:22.340 --> 06:23.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: That little fast, busy thing.
[06:23.680 --> 06:26.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I seem to get that all the time, no matter what I try with NYNEX.
[06:26.920 --> 06:29.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: That should be their theme song.
[06:30.400 --> 06:31.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nice reorder there.
[06:32.460 --> 06:36.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I got that tone with the newest feature that they're offering.
[06:36.560 --> 06:38.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: This actually sounds like something good.
[06:38.640 --> 06:40.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's called Voice Styling.
[06:40.600 --> 06:41.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Voice Styling.
[06:41.420 --> 06:45.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: For about five bucks a month, you can subscribe to Voice Styling.
[06:45.560 --> 06:54.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: And apparently, from the way they describe it, and please, if anyone out there has this, describe it to me, you pick up your telephone and you say, call Joe or whatever.
[06:54.760 --> 06:58.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And assuming that Joe is in your database, it will call him immediately.
[07:00.600 --> 07:02.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just by you talking to your dial tone.
[07:03.300 --> 07:05.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, that's what the 90s is supposed to be all about.
[07:06.140 --> 07:06.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, high tech.
[07:06.980 --> 07:08.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: No touch tone, no dials, nothing like that.
[07:08.880 --> 07:11.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just speak to your phone, and your phone obeys you.
[07:14.040 --> 07:15.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I went right out and I ordered it.
[07:15.860 --> 07:16.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I said, yes, that's what I want.
[07:17.020 --> 07:18.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I want Star 6...
[07:18.160 --> 07:18.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not Star 6, not.
[07:19.100 --> 07:19.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: I want Voice Styling.
[07:20.520 --> 07:24.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: And to this day, it's been about a week now, they can't figure out how to give it to me.
[07:26.520 --> 07:29.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: They swear that it's possible for this thing to work.
[07:29.600 --> 07:41.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see, I have this service, and I put that in quotes and italics and everything else you can put around it, called IntelliDial, which I was recommending to people a couple of months ago.
[07:42.400 --> 07:45.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: It took 9x about maybe four months to get it installed.
[07:45.620 --> 07:51.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then once they did that, things didn't work quite as well as they should.
[07:52.320 --> 07:57.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: IntelliDial is kind of like a mini PBX in your own home.
[07:57.380 --> 08:00.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can transfer calls from one line to another.
[08:01.560 --> 08:02.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can...
[08:03.060 --> 08:04.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's about it, actually.
[08:04.260 --> 08:06.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's not too much you can do with IntelliDial.
[08:07.140 --> 08:11.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But some of the other features of IntelliDial include the following.
[08:12.220 --> 08:15.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Caller ID, call return, repeat calling.
[08:15.060 --> 08:17.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't have to worry about all those because they don't work.
[08:17.420 --> 08:17.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[08:18.080 --> 08:24.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if you pay for IntelliDial, you don't have to worry about buying other features because they're incompatible.
[08:26.060 --> 08:26.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nice, huh?
[08:27.320 --> 08:31.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: And so the way that you program voice dialing, you dial star 99.
[08:32.400 --> 08:33.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Star 99 to program it.
[08:34.880 --> 08:36.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not sure how you program it.
[08:36.240 --> 08:38.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: They just say dial star 99 and everything is explained to you.
[08:38.560 --> 08:44.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the problem with that is that with IntelliDial, star 9 is how you put a call on hold.
[08:45.900 --> 08:49.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So how is it going to know if you're dialing star 9 or star 99?
[08:49.280 --> 08:51.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I don't know, but they say, oh yeah, it'll definitely work.
[08:51.780 --> 08:52.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm still waiting.
[08:54.100 --> 08:55.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we'll just have to see, won't we?
[08:56.000 --> 08:59.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll keep people updated as far as how that goes.
[09:00.900 --> 09:01.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[09:11.840 --> 09:14.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, guess who has just joined us?
[09:15.060 --> 09:15.540]  [SPEAKER_25]: Hi.
[09:15.820 --> 09:18.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's Phiber Optik, live from Federal Prison.
[09:18.840 --> 09:19.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[09:19.740 --> 09:20.800]  [SPEAKER_26]: I'm doing okay tonight.
[09:21.040 --> 09:25.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you're just in time, actually, because we're about to reveal our scandal.
[09:25.680 --> 09:27.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, actually, there have been a couple of scandals.
[09:27.140 --> 09:31.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let me first of all talk about...
[09:31.920 --> 09:35.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there's been a big news item over the past couple of days.
[09:35.840 --> 09:51.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: In what is believed to be the largest fraud of its kind, an MCI employee has been charged with stealing more than 100,000 telephone calling card numbers that were used to make more than $50 million of long-distance calls, according to federal authorities.
[09:52.000 --> 09:52.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: You hear about this, Phiber?
[09:52.660 --> 09:56.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, in fact, I saw it recently on the front page of USA Today.
[09:57.100 --> 09:57.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[09:57.520 --> 10:00.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you get that bastion of journalism out there, huh?
[10:01.340 --> 10:01.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's good.
[10:02.020 --> 10:03.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's good that they keep you updated.
[10:04.080 --> 10:07.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: MCI employee Ivy James Lay was...
[10:07.320 --> 10:09.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Boy, what a name to go through life with.
[10:09.360 --> 10:17.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was alleged to be the main supplier of stolen card numbers to an international ring of thieves operating in Los Angeles and at least five of the U.S. cities, as well as Spain and Germany, which, for those of you educated in public schools, that's not in the United States.
[10:25.600 --> 10:27.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Secret Service...
[10:27.260 --> 10:28.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Secret Service...
[10:28.760 --> 10:33.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: The federal agency that investigates interstate telephone fraud says that this is all true.
[10:34.800 --> 10:50.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Secret Service investigation ended in Southern California on Thursday night when agents seized numerous items from the home of an alleged co-conspirator, which included six computers with pirated commercial copyrighted software and thousands of calling card numbers stored on computer disks.
[10:50.940 --> 11:01.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a big article about this today in the New York Times, and they say how the major phone companies, MCI, AT&T, Sprint, are trying to stop this kind of thing.
[11:01.120 --> 11:04.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: And one of the ways they do it is by reading the hacker magazines that are out there.
[11:05.400 --> 11:07.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you have to wonder, this guy was not a hacker.
[11:07.840 --> 11:08.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: This guy was a criminal.
[11:08.840 --> 11:09.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was a thief.
[11:09.580 --> 11:12.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: He just worked for MCI and stole calling cards.
[11:13.020 --> 11:22.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: What was particularly insulting was the article in USA Today which said that the calling cards were being distributed to hackers and being sold by hackers.
[11:23.020 --> 11:23.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, great.
[11:23.540 --> 11:23.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, of course.
[11:24.020 --> 11:27.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're out there all the time just peddling our wares on the street, you know.
[11:28.440 --> 11:29.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what we do.
[11:30.540 --> 11:31.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's amazing, though.
[11:31.400 --> 11:35.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: When you want to really criminalize somebody, you just say that they do all these things.
[11:35.800 --> 11:41.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it doesn't matter if they don't do it because people who don't know whether they do it or not will just believe the person with the louder voice.
[11:41.720 --> 11:46.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And unfortunately, the person with the louder voice is usually the one having press conferences and making arrests.
[11:48.000 --> 11:51.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: And unfortunately, in your case, Phiber, that's exactly what happened.
[11:52.360 --> 11:52.840]  [SPEAKER_26]: Unfortunately.
[11:53.160 --> 11:53.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[11:53.760 --> 12:00.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, this guy, Lay, a switch engineer based in Charlotte, North Carolina, was charged, arrested, and subsequently released on bail.
[12:01.000 --> 12:06.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: He faces felony charges of access device fraud and could serve 10 years of convicted.
[12:06.340 --> 12:10.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, when you were being threatened, you could have served how many years of convicted?
[12:10.760 --> 12:13.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: I could have served a maximum of 10 years combined.
[12:13.880 --> 12:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, combined?
[12:14.560 --> 12:17.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: They weren't throwing the 55-year thing at you?
[12:18.180 --> 12:22.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: No, but my two charges carried, they each carried penalties of two to five years.
[12:22.880 --> 12:25.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: So if you want to speak in maximums, it would have been 10 years.
[12:25.180 --> 12:28.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wasn't there a point before that, though, where they had a lot of other charges?
[12:29.680 --> 12:34.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I mean, the other charges in the indictment didn't specifically concern me.
[12:34.700 --> 12:39.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: There were only really two from the indictment that specifically named me.
[12:39.840 --> 12:44.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, they say this guy was known in the computer hacking community as Night Shadow.
[12:46.260 --> 12:47.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Night Shadow.
[12:47.300 --> 12:48.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Night Shadow.
[12:48.200 --> 12:49.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what they say he was known.
[12:49.120 --> 12:50.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've never heard of this person.
[12:51.440 --> 13:00.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: He allegedly devised special software to trap calling card numbers from a variety of local and long-distance carriers coming across MCI's telephone switching equipment.
[13:01.180 --> 13:07.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: The card numbers were sold to other co-conspirators who in turn sold them to computer hackers in the United States in Europe.
[13:07.480 --> 13:09.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is according to the Secret Service, of course.
[13:09.880 --> 13:10.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course.
[13:10.280 --> 13:11.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got to believe what they say.
[13:11.340 --> 13:17.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, why would computer hackers need to buy information that anybody with a brain can get on their own anyway?
[13:17.080 --> 13:18.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what I don't really understand.
[13:19.100 --> 13:20.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: It doesn't make much sense at all.
[13:20.680 --> 13:24.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a typical example of where the real fraud comes from.
[13:24.880 --> 13:27.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It comes from within many, many times.
[13:27.860 --> 13:28.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: $50 million.
[13:28.580 --> 13:29.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Think of that.
[13:30.900 --> 13:31.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[13:31.500 --> 13:36.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So before we get to our amazing scandal, tell us what you're up to this week.
[13:37.960 --> 13:38.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: This week?
[13:39.420 --> 13:40.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: Let's see.
[13:40.820 --> 13:42.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: Obviously, I have to think about it.
[13:42.320 --> 13:44.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: There's so much going on all the time.
[13:44.140 --> 13:47.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just for your benefit, Phiber, it's now October 1994.
[13:48.580 --> 13:49.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, isn't it amazing?
[13:49.780 --> 13:51.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know sometimes you lose track in there.
[13:51.620 --> 13:51.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[13:51.960 --> 13:55.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: But it's 1994 and fall is setting in.
[13:56.340 --> 13:59.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's almost a wonder to think that I'm in my 10th month here.
[13:59.920 --> 14:01.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, the baseball season is almost over.
[14:01.880 --> 14:03.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: The hockey season just began.
[14:03.800 --> 14:05.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the basketball season is about to begin.
[14:06.760 --> 14:08.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, you mean there's still basketball?
[14:08.920 --> 14:12.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they haven't started yet, but they're going to start real soon, I understand.
[14:12.220 --> 14:15.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: I had heard that I think most of the other sports were on strike or something.
[14:16.320 --> 14:17.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's what I mean.
[14:17.460 --> 14:18.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, no, no.
[14:18.320 --> 14:20.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't mean where they actually play the game.
[14:20.480 --> 14:23.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean where they engage in labor negotiations.
[14:23.780 --> 14:24.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, okay.
[14:24.260 --> 14:27.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what organized sports is now, labor negotiations.
[14:28.220 --> 14:29.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, it's probably more exciting than that.
[14:29.600 --> 14:29.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: It is.
[14:30.020 --> 14:31.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, I think it's a lot more exciting.
[14:31.200 --> 14:34.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it's something that we all need to get involved in.
[14:35.040 --> 14:36.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's how you learn about labor.
[14:36.460 --> 14:43.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, millions of little kids are now going around saying they want to be labor negotiators and they want to walk on picket lines and things like that.
[14:44.220 --> 14:45.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's inspiring.
[14:45.620 --> 14:46.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: It really is.
[14:46.600 --> 14:48.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: You have labor negotiator baseball cards.
[14:48.340 --> 14:48.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[14:48.760 --> 14:51.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this May 1st ought to be a really interesting day, I think.
[14:51.920 --> 14:52.420]  [SPEAKER_26]: Why is that?
[14:52.420 --> 14:54.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the day of the International Day of the Worker.
[14:54.440 --> 15:07.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it's where people will be coming out and celebrating with their heroes, their favorite baseball players and hockey players and all those other people that stand up for various causes and things like that.
[15:07.940 --> 15:09.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: But regardless, what's new with you?
[15:12.700 --> 15:18.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I don't really have all too many exciting things to say other than that today some more of my mail got censored.
[15:19.280 --> 15:29.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: Obviously, they saw fit that I shouldn't get a magazine called Open Computing, which tends to deal with Unix and networking and things like that.
[15:29.720 --> 15:43.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: And the reason was that well, I don't know if I could explain the reason myself because it really didn't make any sense at all for someone that either knows absolutely nothing about computers or someone that knows a lot about computers.
[15:43.860 --> 15:45.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sounds like a shakedown in there.
[15:45.920 --> 15:46.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: What's that?
[15:46.500 --> 15:47.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I hear people yelling and screaming.
[15:47.620 --> 15:48.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's going on?
[15:48.460 --> 15:50.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's pretty much normal conversation.
[15:50.380 --> 15:50.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, okay.
[15:52.460 --> 15:54.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: No fights or riots breaking out?
[15:54.160 --> 15:54.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, no.
[15:54.520 --> 15:55.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Some people normally talk.
[15:55.740 --> 15:56.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just checking.
[15:56.700 --> 15:56.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[15:57.080 --> 15:57.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, fine.
[15:57.720 --> 16:00.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they censored the Unix magazine.
[16:00.900 --> 16:04.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, which right now is commonplace.
[16:04.400 --> 16:31.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: I don't seem to get too many computer related magazines at all since it kind of really doesn't pay to waste time saying what the reason was because basically they pick something in the magazine that sounds conspicuous like using Mosaic which for people that don't know happens to be a graphical browser on the internet for accessing all kinds of wonderful information about various things.
[16:32.280 --> 16:32.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[16:32.760 --> 16:44.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: And one of the reasons given in the letter was that in an article about Mosaic it contained technical information detailed information about accessing a service on a host.
[16:44.860 --> 16:45.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh dear.
[16:46.820 --> 16:48.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: Obviously this is very threatening stuff.
[16:49.040 --> 16:53.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well that kind of information in a prison of course could make you rich I guess.
[16:53.800 --> 16:53.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[16:54.140 --> 17:06.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: And of course the way all the letters end is that this is unacceptable and that this information constitutes a threat to the good order of the institution.
[17:06.320 --> 17:06.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[17:06.560 --> 17:06.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: The good order.
[17:07.920 --> 17:08.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[17:08.480 --> 17:08.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's something.
[17:09.800 --> 17:11.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well I'm sorry you missed that.
[17:13.360 --> 17:15.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have a lot of things to read though when you get out.
[17:15.380 --> 17:16.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And how many weeks is it now?
[17:17.980 --> 17:20.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well come this what is it?
[17:20.700 --> 17:23.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: I think this coming week I'll have six weeks left.
[17:23.940 --> 17:24.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[17:24.580 --> 17:25.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: I think that's how it goes.
[17:26.060 --> 17:28.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay so we're getting set for that.
[17:28.860 --> 17:30.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: The seventh week and counting.
[17:30.620 --> 17:35.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay so it looks like November 23rd is your grand re-entrance here.
[17:35.840 --> 17:36.040]  Yep.
[17:36.220 --> 17:36.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: At WBAI.
[17:37.060 --> 17:40.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we'll be keeping people updated as to that event as it comes closer.
[17:41.000 --> 17:42.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's going to be great.
[17:42.900 --> 17:44.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's going to be the highlight of the year.
[17:45.720 --> 17:47.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh highlight of my year anyway.
[17:47.280 --> 17:47.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[17:48.280 --> 17:50.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you have another full month of it left after that.
[17:51.860 --> 17:54.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay so we have a scandal here.
[17:54.720 --> 18:01.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: This scandal comes from the brand new edition of 2600 of which there is only one copy right now and I'm holding it in my hands.
[18:02.360 --> 18:05.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I am told there will be more fairly soon.
[18:05.560 --> 18:07.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not for the meeting on Friday though.
[18:07.620 --> 18:17.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: So those of you trekking in from foreign countries and things like that to get issues at the meeting won't be at this meeting because it just takes a while to print these things.
[18:17.540 --> 18:24.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: But we do have a scandal in here and this is something that really kind of shocks me.
[18:24.100 --> 18:26.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well actually it doesn't really shock me but it really gets me angry.
[18:28.140 --> 18:35.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: This concerns sharing of database information and just what they can do with that.
[18:36.360 --> 18:42.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is something we've been looking into for a few weeks and it appears that everything that we suspected about this is true.
[18:44.140 --> 18:52.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: What we're going to do is call it this 800 number and we'll just demonstrate it for you I guess.
[18:53.100 --> 18:57.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basically it's a neat little service that allows you to order a catalog.
[18:58.240 --> 18:59.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sounds nice doesn't it Friber?
[18:59.940 --> 19:00.280]  [SPEAKER_26]: Sure.
[19:00.480 --> 19:02.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, everybody needs a catalog these days.
[19:02.600 --> 19:08.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And so by ordering this catalog you enter your phone number.
[19:08.720 --> 19:09.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay?
[19:09.660 --> 19:09.960]  Okay.
[19:10.120 --> 19:12.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, okay I'm opening up the phone book here.
[19:14.440 --> 19:17.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm going over to the business section of the phone book.
[19:19.000 --> 19:20.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's, uh, okay.
[19:21.580 --> 19:24.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's send this catalog to Walden Books.
[19:25.280 --> 19:25.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Alright?
[19:25.920 --> 19:27.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're, uh, they're on Broadway downtown.
[19:29.140 --> 19:30.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we have their phone number here.
[19:31.020 --> 19:32.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: So let's call up and see what happens.
[19:33.440 --> 19:34.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here we go.
[19:35.100 --> 19:36.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have our dial tone.
[19:37.840 --> 19:38.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're calling up the number.
[19:45.400 --> 19:47.680]  [SPEAKER_35]: Thank you for calling the House of Windsor collection.
[19:48.120 --> 19:52.820]  [SPEAKER_35]: If you would like to request a free copy of our catalog, please press one now.
[19:53.260 --> 19:56.720]  [SPEAKER_35]: If you would like to place an order, please press two now.
[19:57.120 --> 20:00.300]  [SPEAKER_35]: If you are calling from a rotary phone, please hold.
[20:00.540 --> 20:01.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, let's press one.
[20:03.040 --> 20:08.060]  [SPEAKER_35]: Please enter the telephone number, including area code, of the household to which you would like your
[20:19.610 --> 20:20.130]  [SPEAKER_35]: 1139.
[20:20.230 --> 20:21.290]  [SPEAKER_35]: This is correct.
[20:21.590 --> 20:22.310]  [SPEAKER_35]: Press one.
[20:23.010 --> 20:24.690]  [SPEAKER_35]: Otherwise, press two.
[20:24.950 --> 20:25.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is correct.
[20:27.130 --> 20:28.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let me get Phiber back.
[20:28.670 --> 20:29.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Phiber, are you there?
[20:29.590 --> 20:29.790]  [SPEAKER_35]: Yeah.
[20:29.950 --> 20:30.170]  [SPEAKER_35]: Okay.
[20:30.310 --> 20:30.650]  [SPEAKER_35]: entered
[20:34.490 --> 20:35.010]  [SPEAKER_35]: 2122691139.
[20:35.350 --> 20:36.150]  [SPEAKER_35]: This is correct.
[20:36.410 --> 20:36.890]  [SPEAKER_35]: Press one.
[20:36.890 --> 20:38.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we've just entered a phone number and we're saying it's correct.
[20:39.750 --> 20:50.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: The mailing address for the telephone number you entered is 57 Broadway, New York, New York, 10006.
[20:50.690 --> 20:52.490]  [SPEAKER_35]: If this is correct, press one.
[20:53.270 --> 20:54.730]  [SPEAKER_35]: Otherwise, press two.
[20:55.170 --> 20:57.050]  [SPEAKER_35]: To repeat, press three.
[20:57.350 --> 20:59.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, that is correct.
[20:59.830 --> 21:02.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, but it's, uh, it's pretty shocking.
[21:02.990 --> 21:05.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: That is the address of Walden Books downtown.
[21:06.050 --> 21:07.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you ever heard anything like this, Phiber?
[21:08.110 --> 21:09.370]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, let me get this straight.
[21:09.490 --> 21:14.170]  [SPEAKER_25]: Basically, you entered in the phone number and I've told you the address that it was going to verify it was going to be mailed to.
[21:14.410 --> 21:14.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[21:15.250 --> 21:15.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[21:16.030 --> 21:20.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what's shocking about this is that it works for unlisted phone numbers.
[21:21.350 --> 21:24.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, it's kind of spotty.
[21:24.310 --> 21:25.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: It works sometimes.
[21:25.550 --> 21:26.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't work other times.
[21:26.750 --> 21:28.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't work for some listed numbers.
[21:28.410 --> 21:31.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: It does work for a lot of unlisted numbers and we have tried this out.
[21:32.670 --> 21:37.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's, uh, let's try, did you fall off because we were entering touchstones?
[21:37.210 --> 21:37.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that what happened?
[21:37.630 --> 21:45.730]  [SPEAKER_25]: In fact, our ultra-super-duper high-tech phone system here disconnects the person if it, uh, detects multiple touchstones in succession.
[21:46.230 --> 21:49.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that's kind of unfortunate because there's no other way to demonstrate this.
[21:49.870 --> 21:51.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, is there, maybe if we enter them slowly?
[21:52.470 --> 21:53.350]  Eh, that's possible.
[21:53.410 --> 21:54.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, let's try it and see what happens.
[21:55.110 --> 21:59.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, we'll dial nice and slowly for the benefit of the people listening in at the prison.
[21:59.930 --> 22:01.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we're going to dial nine first.
[22:02.570 --> 22:04.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Then we're going to dial a one.
[22:05.630 --> 22:07.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then an eight.
[22:09.170 --> 22:09.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[22:10.130 --> 22:10.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Still here.
[22:10.610 --> 22:12.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: And now let's enter two zeros.
[22:14.230 --> 22:14.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: There.
[22:14.790 --> 22:15.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we still got you there?
[22:16.210 --> 22:16.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[22:16.970 --> 22:17.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, he's gone.
[22:17.970 --> 22:18.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[22:19.010 --> 22:21.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so we'll try it next time and see how quickly it takes.
[22:22.710 --> 22:26.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we'll give you the phone number, but we're going to make you sit through this first.
[22:28.390 --> 22:30.910]  [SPEAKER_35]: Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
[22:31.410 --> 22:34.230]  [SPEAKER_35]: If you would like to request a free copy of our catalog...
[22:34.230 --> 22:39.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, now we're going to enter the Walden Bookstore Uptown on Lexington Avenue.
[22:39.290 --> 22:40.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's try this one.
[22:42.130 --> 22:47.850]  [SPEAKER_35]: Please enter the telephone number, including area code, of the household to which you would like your catalog sent.
[22:52.340 --> 22:57.820]  [SPEAKER_35]: You have entered 2-1-2-2-4-9-1-3-2-7.
[22:58.000 --> 22:58.800]  [SPEAKER_35]: This is correct.
[22:59.160 --> 22:59.840]  [SPEAKER_35]: Press 1.
[23:00.800 --> 23:01.240]  [SPEAKER_35]: Otherwise...
[23:01.240 --> 23:02.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi, Farber, you're back.
[23:02.320 --> 23:03.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, didn't like the zeros.
[23:03.540 --> 23:04.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, didn't like the zeros.
[23:04.360 --> 23:05.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll have to be careful next time.
[23:05.300 --> 23:05.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to hit 1.
[23:09.750 --> 23:10.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's looking it up.
[23:13.980 --> 23:16.100]  [SPEAKER_35]: I'm terribly sorry we cannot assist you.
[23:16.560 --> 23:25.380]  [SPEAKER_35]: Please call 901-362-3770 to speak with a customer service representative.
[23:25.700 --> 23:27.940]  [SPEAKER_35]: Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
[23:28.720 --> 23:32.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, that particular bookstore, it did not have a number for.
[23:32.260 --> 23:34.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, these are two bookstores, same company, same city.
[23:35.240 --> 23:37.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: One it has, one it does not have.
[23:37.940 --> 23:41.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's give a try to one more number here in the phone book.
[23:44.640 --> 23:45.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's try...
[23:45.440 --> 23:46.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: What do you say we try Walt Disney?
[23:48.380 --> 23:48.780]  [SPEAKER_26]: Sure.
[23:49.040 --> 23:50.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, Walt Disney Company.
[23:50.240 --> 23:52.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're right here in 500 Park Avenue.
[23:53.000 --> 23:53.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, we're going to...
[23:53.780 --> 23:55.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to dial ultra slow now.
[23:55.340 --> 23:56.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to see what happens.
[23:56.640 --> 23:58.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'll do the zeros one at a time.
[23:58.520 --> 23:58.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: How's that?
[23:59.100 --> 23:59.360]  [SPEAKER_26]: Okay.
[23:59.580 --> 23:59.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[24:01.400 --> 24:03.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, first we're going to start with the nine to get out.
[24:04.400 --> 24:06.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, then the one.
[24:08.100 --> 24:10.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And now it's about time for the eight.
[24:12.080 --> 24:14.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, and instead of doing two zeros, we're going to do one zero.
[24:16.120 --> 24:16.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Still there?
[24:16.880 --> 24:17.680]  [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah, I'm still here so far.
[24:23.780 --> 24:25.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think we have the system down here.
[24:25.480 --> 24:26.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now we're going to try the four.
[24:28.160 --> 24:28.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Still with us?
[24:29.100 --> 24:29.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm still there.
[24:29.840 --> 24:30.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, great.
[24:30.680 --> 24:32.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I hope the phone company takes this.
[24:32.580 --> 24:33.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now a three.
[24:35.340 --> 24:35.940]  [SPEAKER_26]: Still going.
[24:36.100 --> 24:36.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good, okay.
[24:36.780 --> 24:38.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if there's a limit to how slow you can dial.
[24:38.620 --> 24:39.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now another three.
[24:41.040 --> 24:41.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: Keep going.
[24:41.820 --> 24:42.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[24:42.540 --> 24:43.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: One more three.
[24:45.460 --> 24:46.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: So far, so good.
[24:46.460 --> 24:47.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we only have three digits left.
[24:48.500 --> 24:49.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now a two.
[24:51.220 --> 24:54.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I just thought we'd have to dial those numbers when we call the thing, too.
[24:54.720 --> 24:54.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-oh.
[24:56.460 --> 24:58.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, and finally a zero.
[24:58.980 --> 25:01.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sure their computer isn't going to be as tolerant as the phone company.
[25:01.820 --> 25:03.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that's it.
[25:04.380 --> 25:06.880]  [SPEAKER_35]: Thank you for calling the House of Windsor collection.
[25:07.360 --> 25:12.040]  [SPEAKER_35]: If you would like to request a free copy of our catalog, please press one now.
[25:12.340 --> 25:12.640]  [SPEAKER_29]: Okay.
[25:13.440 --> 25:19.060]  [SPEAKER_35]: Please enter the telephone number, including area codes of the household, which you would like your catalog sent.
[25:19.080 --> 25:21.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is going to be a problem, but let's try it.
[25:21.840 --> 25:22.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two.
[25:22.640 --> 25:23.080]  [SPEAKER_26]: Okay.
[25:23.900 --> 25:24.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: One.
[25:25.080 --> 25:25.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right.
[25:26.300 --> 25:26.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two.
[25:27.960 --> 25:28.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Still with us?
[25:28.920 --> 25:29.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yep.
[25:29.780 --> 25:30.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Five.
[25:30.760 --> 25:31.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[25:32.020 --> 25:32.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nine.
[25:33.580 --> 25:34.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oops.
[25:34.980 --> 25:35.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's gone.
[25:35.800 --> 25:36.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, let's continue here.
[25:36.860 --> 25:38.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Five, nine, three, eight, nine, hundred.
[25:38.940 --> 25:44.480]  [SPEAKER_35]: You have entered two, one, two, five, nine, three, eight, nine, zero, zero.
[25:44.680 --> 25:45.360]  [SPEAKER_35]: This is correct.
[25:45.360 --> 25:49.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see if it gets the address of the Walt Disney Company on 500 Park Avenue.
[25:50.040 --> 25:55.780]  [SPEAKER_35]: The mailing address for the telephone number you entered is 500 Park A.B.
[25:56.880 --> 25:58.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: New York, New York.
[25:58.920 --> 26:00.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: One, zero, zero, two, two.
[26:00.980 --> 26:02.800]  [SPEAKER_35]: If this is correct, press one.
[26:03.580 --> 26:04.920]  [SPEAKER_35]: Otherwise, press two.
[26:05.000 --> 26:05.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mark, are you back?
[26:05.740 --> 26:06.060]  [SPEAKER_35]: I'm back.
[26:06.260 --> 26:09.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, I can repeat that by hitting three so you can hear the address.
[26:09.680 --> 26:10.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's 500 Park Avenue.
[26:10.580 --> 26:16.300]  [SPEAKER_35]: The mailing address for the telephone number you entered is 500 Park A.B.
[26:17.460 --> 26:18.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: New York, New York.
[26:19.480 --> 26:21.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: One, zero, zero, two, two.
[26:21.540 --> 26:23.360]  [SPEAKER_35]: If this is correct, press one.
[26:24.140 --> 26:25.500]  [SPEAKER_35]: Otherwise, press two.
[26:25.580 --> 26:26.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, let's send them a catalog.
[26:27.280 --> 26:29.700]  [SPEAKER_35]: Your catalog will arrive in two to three weeks.
[26:29.940 --> 26:32.060]  [SPEAKER_35]: Thank you for calling the House of Windsor Collection.
[26:32.180 --> 26:34.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so Walt Disney will be getting a catalog courtesy of us.
[26:35.860 --> 26:38.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I think that's the only nice thing to do, don't you?
[26:39.170 --> 26:42.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Maybe you could just make a list of all the people you need to get Christmas presents.
[26:43.170 --> 26:55.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, now, what's interesting about this, you can test this out, you can see who it shows up to when you call the number and enter your phone number and you get a catalog from House of Windsor, who is it addressed to?
[26:55.760 --> 26:58.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is it addressed to the person that gets the bill?
[26:59.040 --> 27:00.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is it addressed to the person that the phone is listed under?
[27:00.980 --> 27:03.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, you should always keep different names, that way you know what's happening here.
[27:03.940 --> 27:12.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: But what we've been able to research here this is something that, believe it or not, AT&T is offering.
[27:13.380 --> 27:17.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's a database called InfoWorks.
[27:18.660 --> 27:23.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: And apparently, House of Windsor is accessing this information.
[27:23.520 --> 27:24.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: How does AT&T get the information?
[27:24.840 --> 27:26.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: They get it from the local phone companies.
[27:26.400 --> 27:32.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: So the local phone companies are sending phone numbers and addresses to AT&T InfoWorks.
[27:32.980 --> 27:36.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's why it's kind of spotty because sometimes they send it, sometimes they don't.
[27:36.900 --> 27:38.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't quite know exactly how this works.
[27:39.720 --> 27:44.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they don't seem to be taking any precautions at all to keep it from being looked at by anybody.
[27:46.240 --> 27:47.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Pretty shocking, don't you think?
[27:47.700 --> 27:48.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, definitely.
[27:48.740 --> 27:52.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if you have an unlisted phone number, you might want to try calling this number.
[27:52.160 --> 27:54.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, the number is 800-433-3210.
[27:56.650 --> 27:59.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you can find anything more about it, please let us know.
[28:00.950 --> 28:02.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I found people's addresses.
[28:02.960 --> 28:03.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's very handy, you know.
[28:03.920 --> 28:05.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're looking for someone's address, you just have their phone number.
[28:05.960 --> 28:07.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, you can get it very easily.
[28:07.880 --> 28:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: But imagine, imagine say you had like your probation officer's phone number but you didn't know where they lived.
[28:14.540 --> 28:18.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it would be very simple to use this system to track them down.
[28:18.840 --> 28:19.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Very simple.
[28:19.520 --> 28:22.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there's so many systems like this popping up.
[28:22.000 --> 28:22.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is only one.
[28:23.400 --> 28:26.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you can tell by the voice synthesizer they have there.
[28:26.380 --> 28:27.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is not one of the most advanced.
[28:27.560 --> 28:29.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, did you hear 500 Park AV?
[28:29.460 --> 28:30.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was trying to say A-V-E.
[28:32.960 --> 28:35.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's not exactly the height of sophistication there.
[28:36.800 --> 28:38.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are you at all surprised by this?
[28:39.080 --> 28:39.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: Am I?
[28:39.640 --> 28:41.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, well, I guess kind of, yeah.
[28:42.120 --> 28:45.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: The fact that it would actually have non-published numbers kind of surprised me.
[28:45.780 --> 28:50.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I sense that when we confront them with this, they're going to say, well, you're giving it the unlisted phone number.
[28:51.020 --> 28:57.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're not giving you an unlisted phone number and we never said that we were going to not give an address for an unlisted phone number if you give us the number.
[28:58.500 --> 29:01.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, that's a kind of roundabout phone company logic we've all come to know and love.
[29:03.390 --> 29:04.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you can very well expect that.
[29:05.100 --> 29:05.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you want the culprits?
[29:06.200 --> 29:06.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: House of Windsor.
[29:08.420 --> 29:08.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, no.
[29:09.060 --> 29:09.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[29:09.240 --> 29:12.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: In order, your local phone company, AT&T, House of Windsor.
[29:12.680 --> 29:15.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, those are the people that go to to complain about this.
[29:16.260 --> 29:19.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
[29:19.100 --> 29:20.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is going to be in the next issue.
[29:21.120 --> 29:26.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's already been on the radio, the next step is.
[29:26.380 --> 29:29.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Will we see more of these things or will we see it put to sleep?
[29:29.740 --> 29:30.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I hope the latter.
[29:30.980 --> 29:31.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I have a question.
[29:32.060 --> 29:32.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's that?
[29:32.620 --> 29:34.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: What type of products are in this catalog?
[29:35.000 --> 29:35.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[29:35.720 --> 29:36.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't gotten mine yet.
[29:36.560 --> 29:42.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I ordered mine more than two weeks ago and I was hoping to see it by now to see who it actually got sent to because that will
[29:55.000 --> 29:58.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: authoritative source of addresses and phone numbers would be a phone company computer.
[29:59.100 --> 30:02.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, it stands to reason that that's how they're getting the information.
[30:03.340 --> 30:04.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's in the catalog?
[30:04.340 --> 30:04.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[30:05.160 --> 30:07.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some sort of, I don't know, fashion thing or something.
[30:07.620 --> 30:08.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[30:08.200 --> 30:08.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have no idea.
[30:09.420 --> 30:15.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: To tell you the truth, I think the name kind of rings a bell and I wouldn't be surprised if these are CD-ROMs that are being marketed.
[30:16.080 --> 30:16.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: CD-ROMs?
[30:17.000 --> 30:17.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[30:18.260 --> 30:34.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: I have a number of computer catalogs, computer supplies, and there's a number of CD-ROM outfits that are selling phone directories and reverse phone directories on a bundle of CD-ROMs with monthly updates or yearly updates.
[30:34.400 --> 30:43.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, I think they would say we're selling CD-ROMs because, you know, anybody can call that thing and it sounds just like, you know, a nice British woman giving out fashionable things.
[30:43.680 --> 30:45.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, I'm saying that the information...
[30:45.520 --> 30:45.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[30:46.620 --> 30:48.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you're saying the way they're getting the information.
[30:48.800 --> 30:49.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that what you're talking about?
[30:49.440 --> 30:49.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: CD-ROM.
[30:50.080 --> 30:52.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, I thought you meant the company was selling CD-ROM.
[30:52.380 --> 30:52.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[30:53.460 --> 30:53.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's...
[30:53.900 --> 30:55.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I was wondering what you were saying there.
[30:55.960 --> 31:00.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: I was just looking it up on a CD-ROM when you enter in the phone number and then it's just reading back whatever address it has.
[31:00.960 --> 31:08.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, that's interesting except that those CD-ROMs are taken from phone books and phone books historically do not have unlisted phone numbers in them.
[31:09.060 --> 31:12.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the reason I don't think it's using that particular database.
[31:12.600 --> 31:20.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Hey, but I have to admit though, I have seen CD-ROM sets that are not strictly from phone books but are taken from numerous sources and compiled.
[31:21.020 --> 31:21.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[31:21.500 --> 31:24.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: And they are more expensive but the fact remains that they exist.
[31:24.560 --> 31:25.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we have done a little bit of digging.
[31:25.740 --> 31:28.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: We do know these people subscribe to AT&T InfoWorks.
[31:28.520 --> 31:32.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: We don't know all that much about InfoWorks but we intend to find out.
[31:32.460 --> 31:41.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're based somewhere in New Jersey, 908 area code and we've got some 2,600 people sort of doing some investigations around that neighborhood.
[31:41.360 --> 31:41.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's put it that way.
[31:42.460 --> 31:42.620]  Okay.
[31:43.130 --> 31:44.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you want to take some phone calls?
[31:44.930 --> 31:45.280]  Sure.
[31:45.460 --> 31:59.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, our phone number as always is 212-279-3400 and that's the only line we take phone calls on so if you know any of those other funny lines they're not going to be picked up so you can ring them as much as you like if you like the sound of a phone ringing but that's not going to do any good.
[32:00.120 --> 32:02.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-279-3400 the program is off the hook.
[32:02.560 --> 32:10.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have Phiber Optik live tonight from every night for the past several months from School Kill Federal Penitentiary.
[32:10.240 --> 32:13.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: By the way, we did enter in your phone number earlier and it did not come up with an address.
[32:14.160 --> 32:14.360]  [SPEAKER_26]: Oh.
[32:14.660 --> 32:14.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[32:16.140 --> 32:18.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: The amazing thing is this works nationwide.
[32:18.900 --> 32:19.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nationwide.
[32:19.480 --> 32:20.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: All over the country you enter phone numbers.
[32:21.220 --> 32:25.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I have a feeling this number is going to be busy for quite some time as people try different things.
[32:25.840 --> 32:27.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: We didn't get an address in the White House.
[32:27.720 --> 32:31.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The other thing is you don't get addresses on any phone company numbers I've noticed.
[32:32.760 --> 32:40.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: But a couple of modem lines run by major network providers returned addresses which I'm sure they don't want to have happen.
[32:40.480 --> 32:41.260]  Oh, that's interesting.
[32:41.420 --> 32:41.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[32:41.980 --> 32:42.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, let's take a phone call.
[32:42.920 --> 32:43.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[32:43.320 --> 32:43.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[32:45.190 --> 32:46.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You must speak, though.
[32:47.620 --> 32:48.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that's...
[32:48.260 --> 32:49.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe I should have mentioned that.
[32:49.320 --> 32:53.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: When we take your call you must speak to us otherwise it's kind of a waste for everybody.
[32:53.860 --> 32:54.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, let's try again.
[32:54.980 --> 32:55.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[32:55.460 --> 32:55.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[32:56.320 --> 32:56.640]  [SPEAKER_22]: Emmanuel.
[32:57.000 --> 32:57.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's good.
[32:57.480 --> 32:57.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Quick questions.
[32:57.880 --> 32:58.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, go ahead.
[32:58.460 --> 32:59.600]  [SPEAKER_22]: Can you repeat that House of Windsor number?
[33:00.140 --> 33:01.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: You want me to repeat the number, huh?
[33:01.780 --> 33:02.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: You want me to
[33:10.240 --> 33:12.380]  [SPEAKER_22]: One philosophical question for you.
[33:12.540 --> 33:13.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Philosophical.
[33:13.320 --> 33:25.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: You talk about how Time Magazine and all these other big-time publications refer to hackers or refer to people who are really criminals as hackers.
[33:26.220 --> 33:26.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[33:26.940 --> 33:29.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, the hacker world can...
[33:29.400 --> 33:36.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know, people like yourself can change things for yourself by just stop referring to yourself as a hacker.
[33:36.680 --> 33:38.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know, define a new term.
[33:38.480 --> 33:39.240]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, first...
[33:39.240 --> 33:41.820]  [SPEAKER_22]: Determine a separate definition for the word hacker.
[33:42.300 --> 33:43.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's going to stop them from...
[33:43.840 --> 33:50.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, unless we start referring to ourselves as clergymen or something, what's going to stop them from just simply labeling that word that we come up with as criminals?
[33:50.860 --> 33:58.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, it's just a way on your part to make an attempt to disassociate yourself from, you know, any kind of, you know, confusion that they're creating, maybe.
[33:59.220 --> 34:03.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but, you know, historically that kind of a thing causes a lot more confusion.
[34:03.520 --> 34:16.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: There were a group of hackers that wanted to label all the bad hackers crackers, and that just simply made things very antagonistic, and, you know, hackers, as a rule, don't listen to rules.
[34:17.120 --> 34:21.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I don't think they're going to listen to somebody saying, okay, guys, from now on, we're going to call ourselves this.
[34:21.430 --> 34:24.540]  [SPEAKER_22]: I know, but if it just becomes uncool to call yourself a hacker...
[34:24.540 --> 34:31.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, the thing is, I don't think it's uncool in most eyes, and unfortunately for the wrong reasons in a lot of times.
[34:31.960 --> 34:37.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of people think that committing crimes is cool, and that, you know, that's what hackers are all about.
[34:37.680 --> 34:38.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not.
[34:38.500 --> 34:38.910]  Yeah.
[34:39.240 --> 34:42.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, I don't know, I think the word still has some honor to it.
[34:42.460 --> 34:44.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, Phiber, do you still consider yourself a hacker?
[34:44.700 --> 34:48.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, of course I do, but I think it's a ridiculous argument to make.
[34:48.350 --> 35:01.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: If someone's a mathematician, and a newspaper suddenly says that all mathematicians are ruthless criminals, are all the mathematicians of the world going to get together and say, let's call ourselves people who eat peanut butter?
[35:02.870 --> 35:03.930]  [SPEAKER_25]: Why change the name?
[35:04.020 --> 35:08.540]  [SPEAKER_25]: The name already is defined for, you know, for what it's worth.
[35:08.680 --> 35:09.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I agree with the caller, though.
[35:09.740 --> 35:12.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: The name has been pillaged quite a bit.
[35:12.460 --> 35:12.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: They've stigmatized it.
[35:13.060 --> 35:16.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's, but that's the media.
[35:16.120 --> 35:19.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: But then again, we refer to the media as sort of the same thing.
[35:19.200 --> 35:24.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a lot of good media out there, but when we say media, we always have that kind of sneer in our voice and that hostile look in our eyes.
[35:25.850 --> 35:29.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they sort of are getting the same effect of what they're doing to us.
[35:30.690 --> 35:31.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[35:31.330 --> 35:32.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, thanks for calling.
[35:32.160 --> 35:32.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thank you.
[35:33.350 --> 35:34.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Interesting point.
[35:34.120 --> 35:34.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[35:34.430 --> 35:34.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the radio.
[35:34.950 --> 35:36.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yes, I was setting up.
[35:37.580 --> 35:39.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm glad fiber optics on the phone today.
[35:40.240 --> 35:45.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: First, I want to say in my school, I wrote an essay about fiber optic history.
[35:45.850 --> 35:52.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: And my teacher said, I don't think this could, I didn't, I didn't give credit to fiber optic in my first draft.
[35:52.290 --> 35:55.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: And my teacher said, oh, I don't think this could happen in real life.
[35:55.580 --> 36:02.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then on my final draft, when I turned it in, I said, based on a true story, fiber optics now is in school, kill Pennsylvania, whatever.
[36:03.200 --> 36:03.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[36:03.620 --> 36:03.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway.
[36:04.370 --> 36:05.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: How'd you do on the paper?
[36:05.660 --> 36:10.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, I said, it said excellent, very clever, whatever, and I got a hundred.
[36:10.950 --> 36:11.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, what do you think of that fiber?
[36:12.140 --> 36:13.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, I'm very slattered.
[36:14.100 --> 36:15.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sort of makes the whole thing worthwhile, doesn't it?
[36:15.790 --> 36:15.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[36:17.060 --> 36:17.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thanks for that.
[36:18.060 --> 36:18.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's great.
[36:18.720 --> 36:19.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Congratulations.
[36:19.540 --> 36:19.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[36:20.240 --> 36:39.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: What I wanted to say was, my friend and I were setting up internet access for the school, our high school, and basically, well, we wanted to run a slip connection in to our LAN, and we were wondering, is this possible?
[36:39.640 --> 36:49.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm pretty sure it is possible, and my friend is even more sure, and he's done this in a different way for a larger organization, but is this possible?
[36:50.350 --> 36:51.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's definitely possible.
[36:51.790 --> 36:52.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, it is.
[36:52.760 --> 36:53.810]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, let me ask you the question.
[36:53.930 --> 36:54.870]  [SPEAKER_25]: What type of LAN is it?
[36:54.930 --> 36:56.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: What type of software are you running?
[36:56.140 --> 37:04.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're going to use, we purchase Novell NetWare 3.12, and I'm familiar with that software.
[37:04.410 --> 37:07.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: I've got it up and running, and we've got a bulletin board running right now.
[37:07.560 --> 37:07.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: Right.
[37:09.520 --> 37:21.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, unfortunately, I work mainly with Novell Unixware, but back when I was in high school, we did have a NetWare LAN running, but rather primitive NetWare at that time.
[37:21.620 --> 37:30.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: But I do seem to recall something about a Novell NetWare asynchronous communication server.
[37:30.430 --> 37:46.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: Basically, you could set up a machine on the LAN as a communication server, which is the software, and connect multiple serial ports to this communication server, which could be accessed through, you know, over NetWare.
[37:46.930 --> 38:01.290]  [SPEAKER_25]: And what you could do is this is controlled by the software itself, and I don't really know the specifics, but you can run Slip, and you can connect a NetWare LAN over Slip to the Internet.
[38:03.640 --> 38:04.790]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right, well...
[38:04.790 --> 38:07.950]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's not something insanely complicated, and in fact, people do it frequently.
[38:08.140 --> 38:13.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: I saw a door program from my board that I could use almost as a door.
[38:13.580 --> 38:13.950]  [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah.
[38:14.200 --> 38:18.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: That you would just hook up to another terminal over the net, over the...
[38:18.100 --> 38:18.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm not the net.
[38:18.860 --> 38:22.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: Over the network, the local network.
[38:22.720 --> 38:22.880]  [SPEAKER_27]: Right.
[38:23.200 --> 38:28.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then you'd have, like, a modem in the terminal, and I would use it that way.
[38:29.060 --> 38:31.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I wasn't sure that would work with the Slip connection.
[38:32.040 --> 38:34.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, you would need to buy something from Novell.
[38:34.560 --> 38:34.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yes.
[38:35.120 --> 38:36.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: You think I would?
[38:36.320 --> 38:37.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, yeah, definitely.
[38:37.540 --> 38:38.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, you think that's the best way.
[38:39.200 --> 38:47.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right, well, I want to thank you guys for that, and I also want to say that the reason a pledge amount was so messed up is because I pledged $17.
[38:48.980 --> 38:50.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I remember...
[38:50.040 --> 38:50.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ah, you're the one.
[38:50.930 --> 38:51.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[38:51.760 --> 38:52.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[38:52.640 --> 38:54.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we forgive you.
[38:54.340 --> 38:54.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[38:54.760 --> 38:55.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's a good number, though.
[38:55.680 --> 38:55.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right.
[38:56.020 --> 38:56.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thanks a lot.
[38:56.680 --> 38:57.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling.
[38:57.380 --> 38:57.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye.
[38:57.860 --> 38:59.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: And thanks to all those people who did pledge.
[39:00.300 --> 39:01.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: We certainly do appreciate it.
[39:03.040 --> 39:06.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's a fun thing for those of you that are tormented by telemarketers.
[39:06.450 --> 39:09.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is a contribution from an internet person.
[39:11.380 --> 39:11.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[39:12.600 --> 39:16.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: The premise is that telemarketers take the brute force approach to making sales.
[39:16.240 --> 39:19.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you talk to a whole bunch of people, someone will buy what you are selling.
[39:19.780 --> 39:23.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: The counter-tactic to this is to waste as much of their time as you can.
[39:23.660 --> 39:27.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: For each minute that you waste, that means several potential customers will not be reached.
[39:28.080 --> 39:29.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Make telemarketing unprofitable.
[39:30.160 --> 39:32.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hanging up only increases the changes for them to...
[39:32.840 --> 39:34.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: the chances, rather, for them to make a sale.
[39:34.800 --> 39:36.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, don't let this happen.
[39:37.100 --> 39:37.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's great fun.
[39:37.980 --> 39:39.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: The only way to beat the telemarketers...
[39:39.380 --> 39:40.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I used to play this game a lot.
[39:41.340 --> 39:45.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd let them do their whole spiel and then misinterpret what they were asking.
[39:45.800 --> 39:48.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: After being corrected, I would ask them to tell me the whole thing over again.
[39:49.600 --> 39:52.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Less than 30 seconds interaction on my part between renditions.
[39:52.780 --> 39:57.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: After the second repeat, I would contend that this wasn't really a good deal as they had claimed that I could do better elsewhere.
[39:58.220 --> 40:02.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: They would insist their deal was the best, so I would ask them to repeat one more time.
[40:02.320 --> 40:07.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, I only needed about 30 seconds of I could get back to reading the paper while they continued to blabber on.
[40:08.410 --> 40:10.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: After the third presentation, I would propose my own terms.
[40:11.180 --> 40:12.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes they would get mad and hang up.
[40:13.060 --> 40:14.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes I could get a fourth repeat.
[40:15.410 --> 40:19.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've heard that some of these folks are under orders not to hang up until they have been told no three times.
[40:19.560 --> 40:20.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: I never would tell them no.
[40:22.430 --> 40:25.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: These days, I don't have time for that game anymore, so I play a different game.
[40:25.700 --> 40:27.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: They call up and they say, this is Chris from so-and-so.
[40:28.260 --> 40:30.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you say, Chris, this isn't a good time for me.
[40:31.000 --> 40:33.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: If I could have your home phone, I'll call you back later when it's more convenient.
[40:34.680 --> 40:35.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why do you want my home phone?
[40:36.060 --> 40:37.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I can call you back at a better time.
[40:37.960 --> 40:40.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't give out my home phone number, but you have mine.
[40:41.160 --> 40:41.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that fair?
[40:42.280 --> 40:44.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: And words to that effect.
[40:44.820 --> 40:45.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: What do you think, Phiber?
[40:46.410 --> 40:48.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I am going to get cut off, but I will call immediately back.
[40:48.840 --> 40:49.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: You got the click, huh?
[40:49.760 --> 40:49.980]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[40:50.380 --> 40:50.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[40:50.910 --> 40:51.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'll wait for you to call back.
[40:51.960 --> 40:52.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, be back in a flash.
[40:53.000 --> 40:53.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[40:55.500 --> 40:57.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: And here's a point system for that same game.
[40:57.960 --> 41:09.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: You get five points each time you get them to repeat a question, ten points if you get them to talk louder or softer, 40 points each time they ask their supervisor, 50 points if you can get them to laugh out loud, 90 points if you can get them to swear at you,
[41:09.560 --> 41:11.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: and 500 points if they hang up.
[41:13.120 --> 41:13.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[41:13.800 --> 41:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Welcome back.
[41:17.430 --> 41:18.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are you there?
[41:18.330 --> 41:18.590]  [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah.
[41:18.710 --> 41:19.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[41:20.930 --> 41:39.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I also wanted to try another phone number, too, so this won't be too bad because we don't have to enter any digits, but somebody told me that some religious group or some right-wing group is going around and telling people to call up the Capitol building and voice their opinion and spout off a bunch of rhetoric.
[41:40.850 --> 41:44.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what they did was they routed an 800 number to the Capitol.
[41:44.950 --> 41:46.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not sure if this still works.
[41:46.750 --> 41:49.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was working a little while ago, so we're going to try it.
[41:49.870 --> 41:50.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: You game?
[41:51.090 --> 41:54.830]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I hope you'll exercise caution because now there are people waiting for the phone.
[41:54.970 --> 41:55.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[41:55.410 --> 41:56.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll exercise much caution.
[41:56.890 --> 41:58.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll dial slowly like we did before.
[41:58.430 --> 41:58.710]  [SPEAKER_26]: Okay.
[41:58.710 --> 42:00.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: And here we go.
[42:01.230 --> 42:02.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: First the nine.
[42:02.350 --> 42:03.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now a one.
[42:04.950 --> 42:06.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: And now the eight.
[42:07.770 --> 42:08.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:08.590 --> 42:09.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is really silly.
[42:11.310 --> 42:11.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:11.890 --> 42:12.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now a zero.
[42:13.150 --> 42:14.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're dialing a 1-800 number.
[42:15.130 --> 42:18.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're doing it in special English for those of you that have just tuned in.
[42:19.430 --> 42:21.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: And one more zero there just went by.
[42:22.010 --> 42:22.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:22.690 --> 42:26.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now we're going to dial the first number of the exchange, which will be a 7.
[42:26.430 --> 42:26.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here we go.
[42:27.110 --> 42:27.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a 7 there.
[42:28.850 --> 42:32.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: The exciting part about this is we might be talking to the Capitol Building real soon.
[42:32.350 --> 42:32.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here comes a 6.
[42:33.910 --> 42:34.610]  [SPEAKER_26]: There it goes.
[42:34.790 --> 42:35.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[42:35.690 --> 42:37.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the 8 was just around the corner.
[42:37.710 --> 42:38.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's coming up.
[42:39.170 --> 42:40.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: 3, 2, 1.
[42:40.070 --> 42:40.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's the 8.
[42:41.050 --> 42:41.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: There it goes.
[42:41.710 --> 42:42.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: We got the 8.
[42:42.530 --> 42:42.910]  [SPEAKER_24]: Very good.
[42:43.010 --> 42:45.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now a series of three 2s, which will space out evenly.
[42:46.070 --> 42:46.470]  [SPEAKER_24]: Home stretch.
[42:47.430 --> 42:47.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:47.930 --> 42:48.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the first 2.
[42:49.070 --> 42:49.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: The next 2.
[42:49.790 --> 42:51.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: We can get a machine to do this for us, I bet.
[42:51.450 --> 42:52.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Another 2 is coming.
[42:53.430 --> 42:54.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where is it?
[42:54.230 --> 42:54.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: There it is.
[42:54.910 --> 42:55.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:55.910 --> 42:58.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the last 2 is almost upon us.
[42:58.950 --> 42:59.510]  [SPEAKER_26]: Engine's mounting.
[43:00.030 --> 43:00.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here we go.
[43:01.610 --> 43:02.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Last 2.
[43:02.270 --> 43:02.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was the last 2.
[43:03.070 --> 43:05.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the final number of the phone number is 1.
[43:05.290 --> 43:06.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: So get ready for the 1.
[43:06.510 --> 43:06.990]  [SPEAKER_26]: Here it is.
[43:08.270 --> 43:08.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's the 1.
[43:08.930 --> 43:09.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[43:09.170 --> 43:09.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see what happens.
[43:10.590 --> 43:11.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's ringing.
[43:18.950 --> 43:19.350]  [SPEAKER_21]: Capital.
[43:20.310 --> 43:20.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi.
[43:20.870 --> 43:21.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[43:21.250 --> 43:22.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Which capital is this that I've reached?
[43:23.350 --> 43:23.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: U.S. capital.
[43:24.450 --> 43:26.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: United States capital in Washington, D.C.?
[43:27.110 --> 43:27.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[43:27.710 --> 43:28.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you very much.
[43:28.410 --> 43:29.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't know this was the number.
[43:29.730 --> 43:29.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[43:30.190 --> 43:30.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you so much.
[43:31.070 --> 43:31.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good night.
[43:32.590 --> 43:33.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it works.
[43:33.430 --> 43:33.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about that?
[43:34.030 --> 43:38.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, if you dial 800-768-2221, you will reach the U.S. capital for free.
[43:40.570 --> 43:44.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Courtesy of some sort of right-wing group here.
[43:44.490 --> 43:46.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: I understand it's the Traditional Values Coalition.
[43:47.650 --> 43:54.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, um, they paid for a toll-free number so anti-gay supporters could call congressional members and express their political views.
[43:54.810 --> 43:59.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, nothing says that a certain 800 number must only be used by anti-gay people.
[44:00.070 --> 44:02.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, 800-768-2221.
[44:03.350 --> 44:04.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's your link to the Capitol.
[44:05.410 --> 44:07.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: I always thought people should do this, you know.
[44:07.690 --> 44:11.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: People should have a toll-free number going somewhere for political purposes.
[44:12.410 --> 44:14.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm happy to say that this group has taken my advice.
[44:15.710 --> 44:16.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ready for the next call, Phiber?
[44:17.090 --> 44:17.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sure.
[44:17.590 --> 44:17.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[44:18.230 --> 44:18.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[44:18.870 --> 44:19.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[44:19.390 --> 44:19.850]  [SPEAKER_28]: Oh, hi.
[44:20.150 --> 44:21.170]  [SPEAKER_28]: Um, great show tonight.
[44:21.210 --> 44:23.070]  [SPEAKER_28]: A lot of fun, a lot of information.
[44:23.410 --> 44:28.710]  [SPEAKER_28]: I call the hands of Windsor and even though I'm in the ghetto in the Bronx, they have me listed, so...
[44:28.710 --> 44:30.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Makes you feel warm all over, doesn't it?
[44:30.950 --> 44:34.750]  [SPEAKER_28]: Yeah, their pronunciation is, they're sophisticated.
[44:35.310 --> 44:39.470]  [SPEAKER_28]: So, like, they're using, what, what does that sound like to you, Phiber?
[44:40.050 --> 44:41.290]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, particularly, I don't know.
[44:41.390 --> 44:43.130]  [SPEAKER_25]: I wouldn't call myself an expert on voice boards.
[44:43.250 --> 44:45.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just a typical voice synthesizer.
[44:45.170 --> 44:47.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, the guy that made those recordings, he must be raking it in now.
[44:47.670 --> 44:49.910]  [SPEAKER_28]: Okay, I have two questions if you'll indulge me.
[44:50.110 --> 44:54.990]  [SPEAKER_28]: They range from moderately silly to very silly, but I think you'll enjoy them, okay?
[44:55.350 --> 44:57.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, as long as they don't get stupid.
[44:57.370 --> 44:58.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Silly we can take, stupid none.
[44:58.870 --> 44:59.830]  [SPEAKER_28]: Um, no, not stupid.
[44:59.890 --> 45:00.170]  [SPEAKER_28]: Okay.
[45:00.330 --> 45:02.190]  [SPEAKER_28]: Um, with election time coming,
[45:12.820 --> 45:17.620]  [SPEAKER_28]: there are in various shows or throughout the years, or five rad heard of it.
[45:18.040 --> 45:29.800]  [SPEAKER_28]: Something about some sort of conspiracy concerning the main computer where all the tally results are sent to from the Board of Elections in New York City, if you've heard anything about that.
[45:30.720 --> 45:37.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I think there's been conspiracy theories about that ever since the first Sperry Univac was used to tally up votes.
[45:37.320 --> 45:42.960]  [SPEAKER_28]: They're talking about some main computer in New York where it's very secret and there's no access to it and...
[45:42.960 --> 45:48.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you would expect that it to be fairly secret with no access to it if it's an election result, wouldn't you?
[45:49.260 --> 45:56.480]  [SPEAKER_28]: Yeah, but, you know, I don't know, but the person on the show made it seem ominous and like Big Brother was manipulating the election results.
[45:56.740 --> 45:58.100]  [SPEAKER_28]: Okay, here's the second question.
[45:58.240 --> 45:59.980]  [SPEAKER_28]: I hope you'll get a laugh out of this.
[46:00.180 --> 46:08.840]  [SPEAKER_28]: Do you foresee the day maybe 50 years from now, 100 years from now, when the premise of the movie Weird Science would be a reality?
[46:11.280 --> 46:12.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's a tough one.
[46:12.540 --> 46:14.020]  [SPEAKER_28]: Computer-generated girl?
[46:14.840 --> 46:16.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, 50 years from now, it's a possibility.
[46:17.080 --> 46:19.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: 100 years from now, I can't see anything because I'd probably be dead.
[46:21.020 --> 46:22.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're a young kid.
[46:23.280 --> 46:27.560]  [SPEAKER_28]: Listen, when you get out of jail, I'm just curious, like, what food do you most crave?
[46:27.980 --> 46:29.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: What food do I most crave?
[46:29.460 --> 46:37.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, well, I'm tempted to say all food, but if I really had to make a choice, it would probably be along the lines of pizza, most Italian food.
[46:37.180 --> 46:39.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: Very bad, like a giant cake in the shape of a computer.
[46:40.500 --> 46:42.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, there'd be that too, I guess.
[46:42.660 --> 46:46.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: But by pizza, I imagine you mean like, you know, real New York-style pizza, right?
[46:46.740 --> 46:47.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, yeah, definitely.
[46:47.740 --> 46:48.540]  [SPEAKER_25]: Real, real pizza.
[46:48.680 --> 46:50.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not this Domino's or a pizza hut.
[46:50.160 --> 46:52.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, no, no, no, it would have to be real pizza, definitely.
[46:52.540 --> 46:52.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[46:52.900 --> 46:53.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, take care, guys.
[46:53.940 --> 46:54.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[46:55.960 --> 47:02.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, we'll have to arrange something like that on your homecoming, which is coming just around the corner.
[47:03.280 --> 47:03.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Hopefully.
[47:04.220 --> 47:08.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's just a little over a month away, so, you know, every week brings us a little bit closer.
[47:08.440 --> 47:11.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, we're not on next week, though, because we're going down to Argentina.
[47:12.060 --> 47:12.260]  Oh.
[47:12.560 --> 47:18.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's a hacker conference in Argentina, believe it or not, and who knows, maybe this is the start of something new down there.
[47:19.000 --> 47:20.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll just have to see.
[47:20.520 --> 47:22.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: We might be doing a live remote from there.
[47:22.600 --> 47:30.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: The computer show is going to be going two hours next week, so we might be coming in live from down there, but we'll be back in two weeks, and of course, hopefully, you'll be back in two weeks, too.
[47:30.940 --> 47:34.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the good thing about that is, two weeks from now, it'll be down to a month before you get out.
[47:35.160 --> 47:35.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[47:35.520 --> 47:37.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, don't forget your most important mission while you're in Argentina.
[47:38.120 --> 47:38.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Which is what?
[47:38.820 --> 47:42.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: Which is to find out if the toilet water really does flush counterclockwise.
[47:42.420 --> 47:45.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, what I'm trying to find out right now is which way does it flush here?
[47:45.560 --> 47:50.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because every toilet I've used just sort of sucks it all out and doesn't really go around in circles like it just did.
[47:50.160 --> 47:53.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, here, I get the notion that it is clockwise.
[47:53.660 --> 47:54.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Clockwise.
[47:54.220 --> 47:54.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[47:54.540 --> 47:55.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm getting a nod.
[47:55.200 --> 47:57.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, clockwise, I think, is what it is.
[47:57.820 --> 48:02.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, there are some people that tell me that that's correct, that's a good assumption that it goes the other way.
[48:02.640 --> 48:03.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some people say I'm crazy.
[48:03.900 --> 48:05.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some people just don't even think about it.
[48:06.020 --> 48:06.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm curious to know.
[48:07.000 --> 48:07.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I'm curious, too.
[48:08.080 --> 48:11.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And one other thing I'm very curious about is the stars.
[48:11.400 --> 48:12.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: You get totally different stars down there.
[48:13.740 --> 48:19.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: because everything appears to revolve around the North Star here but they don't even see the North Star down there.
[48:19.340 --> 48:23.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: They see the globular clusters and things like that and the Southern Cross.
[48:24.200 --> 48:25.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's kind of neat.
[48:25.720 --> 48:28.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: So hopefully I'll have time for the hacking business but I am going to spend a lot of time looking at the sky.
[48:30.100 --> 48:31.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take another phone call here.
[48:31.520 --> 48:32.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening, you're on the radio.
[48:33.780 --> 48:34.580]  [SPEAKER_29]: Hi, it's me, Roman.
[48:35.020 --> 48:35.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, Roman, how are you?
[48:35.940 --> 48:36.640]  [SPEAKER_29]: Amazing, I got you.
[48:36.960 --> 48:38.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, you know, anything's possible.
[48:38.600 --> 48:40.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: You were over at the Unix Expo today, right?
[48:40.740 --> 48:41.780]  [SPEAKER_29]: Yeah, really busy.
[48:42.000 --> 48:42.860]  [SPEAKER_29]: A lot of people.
[48:42.980 --> 48:43.280]  [SPEAKER_29]: Huge.
[48:43.760 --> 48:45.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Something like $700,000, I believe?
[48:46.500 --> 48:47.220]  [SPEAKER_29]: $700,000.
[48:47.340 --> 48:48.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was that an exaggeration?
[48:48.920 --> 48:50.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or like $40,000.
[48:50.480 --> 48:51.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: $40,000, okay, I'm sorry.
[48:52.560 --> 48:53.780]  [SPEAKER_29]: Hi, hey Mark, how are you?
[48:53.960 --> 48:55.160]  [SPEAKER_29]: Hey, sorry I couldn't be there.
[48:55.680 --> 48:55.820]  [SPEAKER_29]: Yeah.
[48:56.880 --> 48:59.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, so how many more days does it go?
[49:00.200 --> 49:01.000]  [SPEAKER_29]: Tomorrow's the last day.
[49:01.120 --> 49:02.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Tomorrow's the last day and it takes place where?
[49:02.580 --> 49:03.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jacob Javits?
[49:03.320 --> 49:05.720]  [SPEAKER_29]: Jacob Javits, the convention area, yeah.
[49:06.000 --> 49:09.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh, and is it easy to scam your way in for free or do you have to pay?
[49:09.440 --> 49:14.300]  [SPEAKER_29]: They actually look for badges but unfortunately I can't give them out anymore.
[49:15.620 --> 49:18.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you hit somebody over the head you can probably slip in without much fuss.
[49:19.500 --> 49:20.220]  [SPEAKER_29]: They charge a lot of money.
[49:20.400 --> 49:20.640]  [SPEAKER_29]: It's $40.
[49:21.100 --> 49:21.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Really?
[49:21.600 --> 49:21.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[49:22.960 --> 49:27.740]  [SPEAKER_29]: I did try my escape number on that 800 number and it's not listed.
[49:28.460 --> 49:35.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we tried a couple of your numbers actually and for some reason even numbers you've had for a long, long time and it didn't appear.
[49:35.500 --> 49:36.700]  [SPEAKER_29]: And they're listed in 411.
[49:37.080 --> 49:39.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, so I don't quite know how this system is working.
[49:39.860 --> 49:41.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe somebody out there can help us.
[49:41.240 --> 49:49.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: By the way, this information originally came from a WBAI listener which just goes to show the power out there of people that are looking for things like this.
[49:49.700 --> 49:54.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, by all means, investigate, find out more information, find more things like this, let us know and we'll spread the word.
[49:55.140 --> 49:58.560]  [SPEAKER_29]: And if anyone is going to Unix Expo, Escape does have a booth there.
[49:58.880 --> 49:59.880]  [SPEAKER_29]: Come visit us.
[50:00.260 --> 50:02.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: How's the turnout been at your booth?
[50:02.660 --> 50:03.960]  [SPEAKER_29]: We're in a weird location.
[50:04.680 --> 50:05.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: A weird location?
[50:05.940 --> 50:07.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: By the bathrooms maybe?
[50:07.800 --> 50:08.800]  [SPEAKER_29]: No, not that bad.
[50:09.100 --> 50:09.980]  [SPEAKER_29]: No, that would be good.
[50:10.020 --> 50:10.780]  [SPEAKER_29]: That would be kind of good though.
[50:10.880 --> 50:11.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: That would be very good.
[50:12.260 --> 50:14.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you get people going out there, you don't get them going in.
[50:14.500 --> 50:14.700]  [SPEAKER_29]: Yeah.
[50:15.440 --> 50:17.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, well, it's an experience.
[50:17.940 --> 50:20.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I wish I could have been there too, but things have been kind of crazy.
[50:21.700 --> 50:23.660]  [SPEAKER_29]: Hey, Mark, see you in a week, a month and a half.
[50:24.040 --> 50:24.320]  [SPEAKER_29]: Yeah.
[50:25.020 --> 50:25.520]  [SPEAKER_29]: See you soon.
[50:25.600 --> 50:25.920]  [SPEAKER_29]: Part of it.
[50:25.920 --> 50:26.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[50:26.760 --> 50:27.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Take care.
[50:27.260 --> 50:27.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling.
[50:28.700 --> 50:29.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[50:29.420 --> 50:29.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the radio.
[50:30.080 --> 50:31.060]  [SPEAKER_24]: Let me turn this down.
[50:31.280 --> 50:35.300]  [SPEAKER_24]: I got another number for you to reach your congressman and senator for free.
[50:35.520 --> 50:36.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Another one?
[50:36.140 --> 50:36.780]  [SPEAKER_24]: Another one, yeah.
[50:36.980 --> 50:42.920]  [SPEAKER_24]: This is put out by a bunch of doctors, specialists who don't like the health care possibility.
[50:43.180 --> 50:44.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they must be happy now since it's dead.
[50:45.040 --> 50:46.800]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, it's pretty dead, but the number still works.
[50:46.860 --> 50:47.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[50:47.440 --> 50:49.020]  [SPEAKER_24]: You can at least make them pay a little bit.
[50:49.220 --> 50:49.480]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[50:50.000 --> 50:55.540]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's 1-800-756-1100.
[50:55.900 --> 51:06.260]  [SPEAKER_24]: You go through their voicemail, and it only works for your two state senators, and you can put any zip code you want for the congressperson, and then they'll route you to any congressperson in Congress if you know the zip code for them.
[51:06.540 --> 51:06.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, really?
[51:07.260 --> 51:07.480]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[51:07.600 --> 51:08.120]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's interesting.
[51:08.500 --> 51:08.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[51:08.940 --> 51:09.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll have to play with that.
[51:09.860 --> 51:11.200]  Yeah, you can play with it now if you want to.
[51:11.240 --> 51:11.880]  [SPEAKER_24]: You get a kick out of it.
[51:11.940 --> 51:14.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'll play with it after Mark gets kicked off, because otherwise we'll get kicked off.
[51:14.880 --> 51:16.240]  [SPEAKER_24]: You've got to have a party when Mark gets out.
[51:16.400 --> 51:19.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we are planning something, so stay tuned for that.
[51:19.040 --> 51:19.640]  [SPEAKER_24]: Okay.
[51:19.740 --> 51:20.860]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, I want to think about the Internet.
[51:21.080 --> 51:23.480]  [SPEAKER_24]: I tried to get on earlier, and I couldn't get this question in.
[51:23.620 --> 51:31.700]  [SPEAKER_24]: It seems like I'm just possibly maybe going to be able to get onto the Internet soon, and it sounds like maybe the best days of it are over when it was really a free worldwide net.
[51:31.800 --> 51:33.760]  [SPEAKER_24]: Now it's turning into the home shopping club of the planet Earth.
[51:33.880 --> 51:35.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it doesn't have to turn into that at all.
[51:35.920 --> 51:45.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are some outlets that will try to make it that, some commercial entities, but the net as an entity is still going to be there.
[51:46.120 --> 51:50.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: There might be a whole lot more people involved with it, but it's still there.
[51:50.680 --> 51:51.640]  [SPEAKER_24]: You've got to cut through the clutter.
[51:52.060 --> 51:52.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[51:53.000 --> 52:01.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're having a hard time reconciling themselves to the fact that the original net people are just not going away, and that that net attitude is just sort of staying there.
[52:01.620 --> 52:01.980]  [SPEAKER_24]: Good.
[52:01.980 --> 52:07.760]  [SPEAKER_24]: I'm glad to hear that, because I was concerned that it's just going to become another commercialized cable TV.
[52:08.060 --> 52:08.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[52:08.660 --> 52:09.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, I'll let someone else get on.
[52:09.880 --> 52:10.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[52:10.920 --> 52:11.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: What do you think about that, Mark?
[52:13.000 --> 52:21.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: I think in some ways it's good that the government thinks that it's going in that direction, because they're ready to pour lots and lots of money into expanding the Internet and making it a lot better.
[52:21.960 --> 52:28.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: But the thing that they're forgetting is that all the people that have always been there that never left are going to be the main people to benefit from all these new things.
[52:28.660 --> 52:29.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[52:29.440 --> 52:34.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And those people are going to hopefully inspire lots of new people to do the same thing.
[52:34.800 --> 52:35.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Hopefully so.
[52:35.780 --> 52:36.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's great.
[52:36.580 --> 52:45.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, if the commercial entities had gotten involved in the net from the get-go, I hate that word, from the beginning, they would have ruined it for everybody.
[52:45.800 --> 52:48.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: It would have been, like the guy said, a big shop at home.
[52:49.960 --> 52:52.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: But fortunately, the creative people got there first.
[52:53.480 --> 52:58.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's kind of neat playing by those rules instead, which really don't involve a lot of rules at all.
[52:59.580 --> 52:59.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[53:00.060 --> 53:01.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You haven't gotten any warnings yet, have you, Mark?
[53:01.660 --> 53:02.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, not yet.
[53:02.460 --> 53:02.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[53:03.040 --> 53:04.140]  [SPEAKER_27]: Should be coming up in a few minutes.
[53:04.240 --> 53:04.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: In a few minutes.
[53:04.700 --> 53:05.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take another phone call.
[53:05.720 --> 53:05.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[53:06.100 --> 53:06.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[53:06.880 --> 53:08.200]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hey, Mark and Phiber.
[53:08.240 --> 53:08.860]  [SPEAKER_27]: How you doing, man?
[53:09.060 --> 53:09.360]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hey.
[53:10.160 --> 53:14.120]  [SPEAKER_27]: Listen, um, I gotta get the hell off of CompuServe.
[53:14.300 --> 53:15.560]  [SPEAKER_27]: I'm trying to get onto the net.
[53:15.760 --> 53:17.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sounds like it's a drug you're addicted to.
[53:19.140 --> 53:20.600]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, CompuServe is a real drag.
[53:20.600 --> 53:21.660]  [SPEAKER_27]: I don't have to tell you that.
[53:21.800 --> 53:22.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[53:23.040 --> 53:23.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[53:23.560 --> 53:24.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is.
[53:24.000 --> 53:26.560]  [SPEAKER_27]: How do you shop for a service provider?
[53:26.700 --> 53:27.980]  [SPEAKER_27]: I don't want to pay an arm and a leg.
[53:28.120 --> 53:28.600]  [SPEAKER_27]: You know what I'm saying?
[53:29.700 --> 53:31.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there's lots of them around.
[53:32.720 --> 53:36.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe not lots, but there are Unix systems around that are...
[53:36.940 --> 53:38.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, like Roman, who just called in.
[53:38.520 --> 53:39.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: He runs a Unix system.
[53:40.260 --> 53:40.420]  [SPEAKER_26]: Escape.
[53:40.860 --> 53:41.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry?
[53:41.620 --> 53:42.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: With Escape.
[53:42.460 --> 53:43.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Escape, yeah.
[53:44.760 --> 53:45.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's, uh...
[53:45.480 --> 53:46.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's ones like that.
[53:46.800 --> 53:47.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, Netcom is in the city.
[53:48.100 --> 53:54.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're big, but you don't have to get involved with all the garbage that some of the other online services provide.
[53:54.740 --> 53:57.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can just have, you know, a basic Unix account.
[53:57.600 --> 53:58.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: I assume that's what you want.
[53:59.000 --> 54:00.080]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[54:00.080 --> 54:03.680]  [SPEAKER_27]: Because with CompuServe, there's too much frill, but you can't get it to me.
[54:03.820 --> 54:04.240]  [SPEAKER_27]: You know what I'm saying?
[54:04.360 --> 54:04.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[54:04.960 --> 54:06.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I suggest looking into either of those two.
[54:06.640 --> 54:10.920]  [SPEAKER_27]: All right, what's the name of, uh, um, that other, uh, uh, Roman's, uh...
[54:10.920 --> 54:12.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's, uh, escape.com.
[54:13.120 --> 54:14.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Escape.com.
[54:14.680 --> 54:15.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll give you their phone number.
[54:15.840 --> 54:18.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, uh, 212, if I remember correctly.
[54:18.100 --> 54:19.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hopefully I'm not giving you someone else's phone number.
[54:20.020 --> 54:22.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, 212-888-8780.
[54:22.300 --> 54:24.000]  [SPEAKER_27]: 888-8780.
[54:24.180 --> 54:25.280]  [SPEAKER_27]: Also, very quickly...
[54:25.280 --> 54:26.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just ask them all kinds of questions.
[54:26.700 --> 54:35.120]  [SPEAKER_27]: Very quickly, can you give me the name of any primer, a good primer on phone systems, you know, the electronics and mechanics of telephones?
[54:35.220 --> 54:36.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's that one in Radio Shack, Mark?
[54:36.760 --> 54:40.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, I don't know if they even published that one anymore, but it was called Understanding Telephone Electronics.
[54:41.560 --> 54:42.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: See if they have it in Radio Shack.
[54:43.000 --> 54:44.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: If not, we'll look somewhere else.
[54:44.480 --> 54:45.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: Do you think Loompanics would have anything?
[54:45.960 --> 54:50.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yeah, the Loompanics catalog probably would be a good bet to, uh, look for something like that.
[54:50.400 --> 54:51.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Also, go to your public library.
[54:51.540 --> 54:52.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just look on the telephones.
[54:52.500 --> 54:53.320]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, I did forget it.
[54:53.360 --> 54:53.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's pitiful.
[54:54.180 --> 54:55.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: The library's pitiful.
[54:55.440 --> 54:56.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, which library do you go to?
[54:56.620 --> 54:58.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: You can go to, uh, Barnes & Noble on 18th Street.
[54:59.900 --> 55:01.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: They have tons of telecommunications books.
[55:02.100 --> 55:02.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, Barnes & Noble.
[55:03.140 --> 55:03.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: Barnes & Noble.
[55:03.960 --> 55:06.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: The big Barnes & Noble on West 18th Street.
[55:06.060 --> 55:07.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: The CT, I'll check it out.
[55:08.020 --> 55:10.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I'll look them up in the phone book here and send them a catalog, too.
[55:10.820 --> 55:11.720]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thank you very much.
[55:11.720 --> 55:12.180]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks for calling.
[55:12.280 --> 55:14.380]  [SPEAKER_27]: And to Phiber, I wish you, uh, Godspeed.
[55:14.940 --> 55:15.220]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks.
[55:15.360 --> 55:16.700]  [SPEAKER_27]: Looking forward to your getting sprung.
[55:17.080 --> 55:17.600]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thank you.
[55:17.920 --> 55:18.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, take care.
[55:20.120 --> 55:24.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, that Barnes & Noble is, uh, I'll do it later.
[55:24.420 --> 55:29.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, it is on, um, 18th Street, 128 5th Avenue on 18th.
[55:29.620 --> 55:29.840]  Yep.
[55:30.020 --> 55:31.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's their sales annex, according to this.
[55:32.600 --> 55:35.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, since you're going to get cut off real soon, let's, uh...
[55:35.160 --> 55:35.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's the magic click.
[55:35.820 --> 55:36.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you got the magic click already.
[55:37.080 --> 55:38.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you only get one now, right?
[55:38.540 --> 55:38.720]  [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah.
[55:38.980 --> 55:40.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, you have a line of people there?
[55:41.260 --> 55:42.400]  [SPEAKER_26]: There's some people waiting, yeah.
[55:42.440 --> 55:42.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[55:43.400 --> 55:46.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, well, if you can call back maybe in about, uh, 10 minutes off air.
[55:47.180 --> 55:47.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[55:47.680 --> 55:49.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: If it's possible, I should still be around.
[55:49.920 --> 55:50.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[55:50.100 --> 55:54.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, otherwise, we'll speak to you in two weeks, and, uh, best of luck.
[55:55.160 --> 55:55.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks.
[55:55.700 --> 55:59.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, give our best to everybody there that we've already talked to on the radio.
[55:59.160 --> 55:59.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: I sure will.
[55:59.940 --> 56:00.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[56:00.720 --> 56:01.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good night, everybody.
[56:01.640 --> 56:02.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, take care.
[56:02.440 --> 56:02.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: Bye-bye.
[56:03.300 --> 56:09.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Phiber Optik Live from, uh, Schuylkill Penitentiary in the prison state of Pennsylvania.
[56:10.380 --> 56:20.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's, uh, close off, try out that 800 number the listener gave us, see if we can actually wander around the voicemail systems of our elected representatives.
[56:29.870 --> 56:34.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you for calling the hotline on patient access to specialty medical care.
[56:34.610 --> 56:42.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: You can protect your right to choose your own doctor and to see a specialist of your choice by selecting one of the following options at no expense to you.
[56:43.030 --> 56:43.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, goody.
[56:43.530 --> 56:45.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you'd like to speak directly to your U.S. representative's office, please press 1.
[56:48.290 --> 56:48.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, let's...
[56:48.750 --> 56:50.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you'd like to speak directly with your U.S. senator's office, please press 2.
[56:53.610 --> 56:55.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you'd like to fax a letter to your U.S. representative or U.S. senator, please press 3.
[56:59.350 --> 57:07.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you would like to receive information about the importance of medical specialty care and your right to select your own specialist, please press 4.
[57:07.550 --> 57:09.490]  [SPEAKER_19]: Please press your choice now.
[57:09.690 --> 57:12.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sounds a bit opinionated to me, but I think I'm going to go for 2.
[57:13.750 --> 57:14.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's, uh...
[57:14.550 --> 57:18.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Press 1 to speak with Senator Alphonse Diamato.
[57:18.270 --> 57:18.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, that's the guy.
[57:18.990 --> 57:22.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: 2 to speak with Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
[57:22.310 --> 57:23.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nah, Diamato, definitely.
[57:24.430 --> 57:25.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're sorry.
[57:25.530 --> 57:27.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Office you wish to contact is closed.
[57:27.790 --> 57:30.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: Please call back between 9 o'clock a.m. and 5 o'clock p.m.
[57:31.430 --> 57:32.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: Eastern Standard Time.
[57:32.930 --> 57:33.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you.
[57:34.350 --> 57:36.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's a bit of a disappointment there.
[57:37.050 --> 57:38.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: But it does sound like it has possibilities.
[57:39.010 --> 57:40.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know about wandering around within the system.
[57:41.030 --> 57:43.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't really sound like we can do that right away.
[57:43.550 --> 57:54.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I imagine once you get into their particular voicemail system, you know, where they say they're not in, which I'm sure they do a lot, you just hit a zero or something and they can transfer around various places in D.C.
[57:54.450 --> 57:57.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: and leave messages for all the congressmen and just say hi.
[57:58.530 --> 57:59.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that's it for tonight.
[57:59.890 --> 58:01.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: I want to thank everybody who called in.
[58:01.930 --> 58:03.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank everybody else who was just listening.
[58:09.780 --> 58:21.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: As I said, we won't be back next week, but we will be back in two weeks and we'll be speaking about the Argentinian hacker scene and I guess the results of the scandal we revealed tonight.
[58:21.980 --> 58:29.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, that number is 1-800-433-3210 if you want to look somebody up, look yourself up or various other things.
[58:29.180 --> 58:37.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you want to reach senators and representatives, 1-800-756-1100 for the number we just called now.
[58:38.620 --> 58:43.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the number that we called earlier, I'm frantically trying to look this one up.
[58:44.240 --> 58:46.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is to reach the U.S. Capitol, 1-800-768-2221.
[58:51.300 --> 58:56.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of information tonight, so more information on the way, rebroadcast of the WBAI Evening News.
[58:57.080 --> 58:58.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling in and listening.
[58:58.920 --> 58:59.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll see you in two weeks.
[58:59.840 --> 58:59.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good night.