Off The Hook - 1994-12-07

[00:03.060 --> 00:04.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: But if I could, I would.
[00:05.140 --> 00:07.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be wrong, but I best expect the worst.
[00:08.560 --> 00:10.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope that time is good.
[00:10.540 --> 00:11.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be wrong.
[01:04.960 --> 01:06.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: And good evening, everybody.
[01:06.320 --> 01:07.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:07.560 --> 01:09.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Off the Hook is the program.
[01:09.300 --> 01:10.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're here until 11 o'clock.
[01:11.280 --> 01:25.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the topic, as always, is the Internet, the telephone system, how it affects all of us, and what you can do about it, and what can be done to you through it, and that kind of thing.
[01:25.960 --> 01:29.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of craziness happened this past week over the Internet.
[01:29.400 --> 01:32.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: You might have read some things in newspapers and seen things in Time Magazine.
[01:32.480 --> 01:33.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to get to that.
[01:33.380 --> 01:36.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have some scary news, as always.
[01:38.180 --> 01:44.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we have some news updates that involve some people that we know that have been here before.
[01:44.900 --> 01:48.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: All that coming up right here on Off the Hook.
[02:21.170 --> 02:29.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we have news out of Pensacola, Florida, which seems a bit frightening.
[02:30.330 --> 02:35.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we should verify, well, we should tell you that this has not been verified.
[02:35.050 --> 02:36.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: This has not been confirmed.
[02:36.170 --> 02:38.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is something that is being passed around on the net.
[02:40.150 --> 02:48.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: And as you know, some of the things that get passed along on the net are not 100% accurate, but if this is accurate, it's pretty darn scary.
[02:53.150 --> 02:58.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: According to this article, there are 25 bulletin board systems operating in Pensacola, Florida, the day before yesterday.
[02:58.810 --> 03:03.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And as of yesterday at 5 p.m., there were 10 fewer.
[03:09.510 --> 03:16.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: The FBI descended on 10 bulletin boards in the Pensacola area.
[03:18.150 --> 03:27.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: One system operator, a paraplegic, was held by two armed thugs by the arms and grilled with questions for 30 minutes while they ransacked his apartment.
[03:30.730 --> 03:45.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: After the first 30 minutes, they sat him down in a chair in the middle of his front lawn, not his wheelchair, without a jacket or coat, in the 43-degree weather yesterday in Pensacola for two hours.
[03:50.870 --> 03:59.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: In another case, 30-odd stormtroopers descended on a Pensacola computer store as the customers scattered.
[04:02.010 --> 04:09.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: After they had succeeded in ruining the business's reputation in its entirety, they moved to the system operator's home.
[04:11.070 --> 04:18.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Equipped with search warrants, they took his home apart and put it back together, again, confiscating equipment all the way down to the pencils on his desk.
[04:20.090 --> 04:26.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: And in the process, they found that the guy had a bag of marijuana tucked away in a nightstand in his bedroom.
[04:32.330 --> 04:33.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I got him a night in jail.
[04:37.190 --> 04:44.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: One system operator was held at gunpoint as the thought police continued their raid, refusing to allow him to phone his lawyer.
[04:48.670 --> 05:02.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Another area system operator in Pensacola was held with his wife and two children, ages five and seven, at gunpoint, forced to lie face down on the floor in the living room, hands behind their heads, while the FBI raid took place.
[05:07.110 --> 05:12.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: And all this supposedly because of some GIF files that were floating around on the Internet.
[05:13.710 --> 05:15.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what the word is at this point.
[05:18.780 --> 05:21.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: The same files the local university in Pensacola carries.
[05:23.320 --> 05:25.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the university was not one of the systems busted.
[05:30.080 --> 05:33.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: A bit of an inequity if we're reading this properly.
[05:41.480 --> 05:49.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: According to this writer, he is in favor of declaring cyberspace its own sovereign state.
[05:51.940 --> 05:54.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: A nation all its own.
[05:54.840 --> 05:58.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: A nation without physical boundaries.
[05:59.040 --> 06:00.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And why not?
[06:00.160 --> 06:01.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't that what the church is?
[06:01.340 --> 06:04.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: A nation unto itself immune to the interference of the government.
[06:05.520 --> 06:12.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Seems to me that the transfer of ideas and concepts is what the church stands for in the most basic of terms.
[06:15.240 --> 06:18.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Seems to me that cyberspace needs to unite.
[06:20.100 --> 06:21.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And form its own government.
[06:25.990 --> 06:36.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, apart from the fact that I really can't stand the word cyberspace, there does seem to be some merit to the idea of having some sort of a self-governing society.
[06:38.550 --> 06:44.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's been talk of all sorts based on past examples.
[06:47.340 --> 06:58.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And one particular bulletin that is floating around has to do with the Digital Liberty Forum.
[07:00.850 --> 07:04.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is also being being sent everywhere on the net.
[07:05.190 --> 07:14.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Friends of Liberty is becoming increasingly apparent that the arrival of cyberspace is destined to engender a fundamental discontinuity in the course of human relations.
[07:15.550 --> 07:19.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a source of great optimism and opportunity for those of us who believe in freedom.
[07:20.390 --> 07:28.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Many of you who participate in the lively debates that take place in these forums have seen a number of activist organizations spring up claiming to represent the cause of freedom.
[07:30.570 --> 07:41.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, if you are like me, you have cheered these groups only to watch them get bogged down in a quagmire of real politics.
[07:43.670 --> 07:52.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is a sad fact that the beast in Washington has evolved into a self-perpetuating engine expert at co-opting the principles of even the most ardent reformers.
[07:53.510 --> 08:03.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Slowly but surely, all those who engage the system are ultimately absorbed into the mainstream of majoritarianism.
[08:04.980 --> 08:06.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think I've ever said that word before.
[08:06.970 --> 08:32.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: For example, what can be more discouraging than watching an organization that started out as a cyber-civil liberties group I think they're talking about the Electronic Frontier Foundation here shift its focus to creating new forms of government entitlements while endorsing intrusive wiretap legislation because they didn't want to jeopardize their influence and prestige amongst the Washington power
[08:32.510 --> 08:32.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: elite.
[08:34.730 --> 08:38.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some of us believe we can seek ultimate redress at the polls.
[08:39.830 --> 08:47.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Many pundits have declared our recent national elections a watershed in politics, a turning point that represents the high-water mark of big government.
[08:49.030 --> 08:49.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nonsense.
[08:50.550 --> 08:52.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: The names have changed.
[08:53.250 --> 08:55.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: The chairs have been rearranged.
[08:55.490 --> 08:59.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the game remains the same.
[09:00.910 --> 09:04.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: The so-called choices we are presented with are false.
[09:05.430 --> 09:10.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hardly better than the mock one-party elections held by failed totalitarian regimes.
[09:10.050 --> 09:12.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: There must be a better way.
[09:14.090 --> 09:20.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: I would like to announce the formation of a new group, Digital Liberty, that has chosen a different path.
[09:21.030 --> 09:24.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: By the way, Digital and Liberty share a common L.
[09:24.810 --> 09:25.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's one word.
[09:26.490 --> 09:29.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: We intend to bypass the existing political process.
[09:29.470 --> 09:32.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: We reject consensus building based on the calculus of compromise.
[09:33.750 --> 09:40.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Instead, we plan to leave the past behind, much as our pioneering forefathers did when they set out to settle new lands.
[09:40.990 --> 09:43.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is our mission to create the basis for a different kind of society.
[09:46.870 --> 09:50.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this goes on for quite some pages here.
[09:51.870 --> 09:59.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: But basically, they say you can join Digital Liberty if you can honestly answer yes to the following two questions.
[10:00.190 --> 10:01.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, these aren't questions.
[10:01.390 --> 10:05.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: These are statements, but I guess if you agree with these two statements.
[10:05.350 --> 10:10.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Number one, I renounce the use of coercive force as a tool of social or economic policy.
[10:12.530 --> 10:12.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: No?
[10:13.730 --> 10:14.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: No?
[10:14.290 --> 10:14.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[10:14.890 --> 10:16.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think we all agree with that.
[10:16.310 --> 10:23.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, number two, I do not derive the majority of my income from funds taken from taxpayers.
[10:26.580 --> 10:27.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess.
[10:27.520 --> 10:31.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, let's say you, you know, you work selling hot dogs in the stadium.
[10:32.140 --> 10:34.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, who's going to pay you, the people in the stadium and their taxpayers?
[10:34.840 --> 10:35.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't think that's what they mean.
[10:36.080 --> 10:38.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they mean from taxes or something like that.
[10:39.680 --> 10:40.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[10:40.160 --> 10:41.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, anyway, how do you join Digital Liberty?
[10:42.920 --> 10:48.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you qualify, send the message to digital liberty dash request at phantom.com.
[10:49.180 --> 11:02.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Remember, Digital and Liberty share a common L and a dash then request at phantom.com with the word subscribe in the subject line and the message body as follows.
[11:02.420 --> 11:07.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Subscribe, Digital Liberty, your name and welcome to the future.
[11:08.720 --> 11:11.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you have to say that, but I guess you might have to.
[11:14.750 --> 11:20.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I guess if you don't have access to the net, there's not much point to being in this group.
[11:21.090 --> 11:21.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not really sure.
[11:21.830 --> 11:22.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be keeping an eye on that.
[11:23.790 --> 11:27.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Seems like groups are springing up every week.
[11:29.470 --> 11:36.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: We talked about the internet liberation front last week and boy, they're in all the papers this week, aren't they?
[11:37.930 --> 11:40.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: How many of you saw the Josh Quintner piece yesterday?
[11:41.650 --> 11:42.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: You saw it?
[11:42.350 --> 11:42.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: You saw it, Phiber?
[11:43.150 --> 11:43.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure did.
[11:43.930 --> 11:44.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[11:44.510 --> 11:46.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: An attack hack hands out a little holiday jeer.
[11:47.110 --> 11:49.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: In all fairness to Josh Quintner, he did not write that headline.
[11:50.430 --> 11:51.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: He didn't write that.
[11:52.230 --> 11:54.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I know he didn't write that.
[11:54.670 --> 11:56.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Even without asking him, I can tell.
[11:56.750 --> 11:59.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: An attack hack hands out a little holiday jeer.
[11:59.370 --> 12:05.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently what happened to him was that, well, he's got this book coming out of which you are a part of.
[12:06.250 --> 12:06.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, that's true.
[12:06.870 --> 12:08.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: You play prominently, your story does.
[12:09.970 --> 12:19.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I guess certain people didn't like the piece that came out in Wired this past month.
[12:19.330 --> 12:30.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And let me just make it clear, no mistake here, if you hand me a copy of Wired, I will recoil with the same exact motion as if you hand me a box of Ronald Reagan's feces.
[12:31.290 --> 12:37.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's just my personal feeling on that.
[12:37.850 --> 12:54.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: What does, you know, is Wired really a good target for people that are, I guess they are in a way, they do commercialize the net quite a bit, but is a person, a human being, one particular individual person, is that really a good target?
[12:55.030 --> 12:55.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[12:55.670 --> 12:56.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know about that.
[12:56.570 --> 13:03.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: This guy was targeted because he's got this book coming out and because he's excerpted in Wired this month.
[13:03.170 --> 13:04.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: I assume that's the reason.
[13:04.490 --> 13:07.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe there's some grudge from years ago.
[13:08.290 --> 13:11.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what they did was, first of all, they mail-bombed him.
[13:12.170 --> 13:23.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: The thing we read last week, he, well, he says he only got three copies in his mailbox, but then all of a sudden there were 35 megs of mail in his mailbox.
[13:23.870 --> 13:27.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess he just sort of assumed that they were all the same thing.
[13:27.870 --> 13:39.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what he did was, if you read this article which appeared in yesterday's paper in part two, if you sent me email between Wednesday and Monday, resend it because it's forever gone.
[13:40.530 --> 13:44.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you know, that hurts to see that because there's no reason to do that.
[13:44.990 --> 13:47.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no reason to lose all of your mail.
[13:47.270 --> 13:49.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, there's always a way around things like that.
[13:49.450 --> 13:57.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, if you were mail-bombed, you as a computer expert, Phiber, there are ways of weeding things out.
[13:58.630 --> 14:02.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but 35 megs would take a particularly long time.
[14:02.730 --> 14:04.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you don't know that...
[14:04.230 --> 14:07.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, the big difference is that it didn't go directly to his mailbox.
[14:08.070 --> 14:13.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Josh happens to have a UECP feed where...
[14:13.530 --> 14:19.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: which basically means that his mail gets queued up on a major service provider's computer.
[14:19.310 --> 14:19.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[14:19.690 --> 14:20.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which...
[14:20.030 --> 14:22.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they take a dim view of having 35 megs.
[14:22.690 --> 14:27.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, they would because he wouldn't even know until he went to retrieve his mail which I'm sure didn't even happen.
[14:27.990 --> 14:30.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: They probably notified him long before he logged in to pick his mail up.
[14:30.790 --> 14:31.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[14:31.950 --> 14:33.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, wow.
[14:33.630 --> 14:35.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we had a sort of similar thing happen.
[14:36.550 --> 14:38.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't really think it's the same.
[14:38.330 --> 14:45.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think what happened on Newsnet over this past week was either done for a different reason or done by different people.
[14:45.450 --> 14:46.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not really sure.
[14:46.130 --> 14:47.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: but it was kind of interesting.
[14:47.610 --> 14:56.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody in my name decided to post this message several thousand times on Newsnet in three news groups.
[14:58.210 --> 15:03.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alt.2600 which is really an interesting news group most of the time when messages are different.
[15:05.130 --> 15:15.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alt.currentEvents dash NetAbuse Actually, it's alt.current-events.net-abuse which it certainly fit into that category.
[15:15.190 --> 15:29.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: and the final news group was alt.test which was the problematic one because when you post something to alt.test you get back a reply saying that this message was received from various machines around the world.
[15:29.610 --> 15:34.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, when you post several thousand messages to alt.test you can imagine what happens.
[15:34.990 --> 15:39.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what someone did somehow was forge a name.
[15:39.330 --> 15:42.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: They didn't actually break into the account I've got over on the well.
[15:42.210 --> 15:47.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: They were able to forge a posting name so that everybody thought that's where it came from.
[15:48.170 --> 16:02.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: And after putting up several thousand of those the next step I believe was creating gibberish names so that you couldn't just go out and kill all the messages from Emanuel at well.sf.ca.us.
[16:03.270 --> 16:10.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: These were random names or just gibberish names so there was no way to kill them and the titles were gibberish too so a whole few thousand of those went out.
[16:11.790 --> 16:14.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Then they tied it into the fortune program.
[16:14.670 --> 16:24.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fortune program is this thing some people use when they log in or log off that gives them a neat little quote you know like how many Pentium engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
[16:25.630 --> 16:26.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: 1.9 I think?
[16:27.670 --> 16:29.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or something close like that.
[16:31.010 --> 16:50.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: And basically what happened then was they posted certain fortunes you saw posts from Woody Allen and from Orson Wells and various other famous people that obviously were not posting to the net but since they were being quoted from the fortune program it looked like they were.
[16:50.810 --> 16:56.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it was improving in quality as far as what this particular person was doing for whatever reason.
[16:58.810 --> 17:24.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: So after a while it all stopped but messages from alt.test machines were flooding into the well I think we got a total of about 25,000 of them and through the use of a couple of creative scripts written by some very valuable people to know we were able to pretty much weed out all of the messages coming from machines and save the ones that were coming from humans.
[17:33.550 --> 17:37.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: or if you don't know what you're doing you can be victimized in a bad way.
[17:38.550 --> 17:40.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's something you got to know when you get into this.
[17:41.990 --> 17:47.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now the other thing that happened to Josh was he had some phone shenanigans.
[17:47.750 --> 17:51.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe you understand what happened a little bit better than I do so why don't you explain it.
[17:51.650 --> 18:09.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well just from speaking with Josh he explained to me that someone had forwarded his calls to either an answering machine or a voicemail system and put up a fake greeting pretending to be Josh and from what he said it was basically just a mockery of him.
[18:10.290 --> 18:18.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the funny part that I saw in the whole thing was that friends of his calling him actually left messages after they heard that greeting.
[18:19.090 --> 18:21.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I think he must know some pretty strange people.
[18:22.310 --> 18:24.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah the message went something like this.
[18:24.670 --> 18:32.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi this is Josh Quittner I'm not half as good a journalist as Paul Tuff and then an obscenity which was deleted or deleted from the newspaper anyway.
[18:34.170 --> 18:40.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what he says was Paul Tuff by the way journalist for Harper's now some people might find this this hack disturbing.
[18:40.990 --> 18:44.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: What I found disturbing was the large number of people extremely close friends who left messages.
[18:45.790 --> 18:50.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: One of our best friends in Huntington later said she left three messages and wanted to know why we never called back.
[18:50.710 --> 18:52.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: My editor at Wired Magazine left a message.
[18:52.450 --> 18:53.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: My mother left a message.
[18:53.350 --> 18:57.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: even Paul Tuff who is a better journalist than me left a message.
[18:59.170 --> 19:00.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[19:00.270 --> 19:03.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of people I guess just don't really pay attention to what they hear on the phone.
[19:05.410 --> 19:06.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nothing surprises them anymore.
[19:07.490 --> 19:09.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so they remote call forwarded?
[19:09.870 --> 19:10.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that the...
[19:10.610 --> 19:12.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know the particulars.
[19:12.670 --> 19:15.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: It could either have been remote call forwarding or just normal call forwarding.
[19:17.390 --> 19:21.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I believe the phone company said it was remote call forwarding.
[19:21.510 --> 19:22.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is remote call forwarding?
[19:23.170 --> 19:26.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I don't know that we should necessarily believe anything the phone company says.
[19:26.770 --> 19:26.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's true.
[19:26.970 --> 19:32.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's go on the assumption that the phone company, ridiculous as it may sound, knows how to work their network.
[19:32.490 --> 19:39.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Remote call forwarding is a feature that usually normal people don't order.
[19:40.310 --> 19:41.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's extremely expensive.
[19:41.810 --> 19:46.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Usually businesses order it to have something similar to a foreign exchange number.
[19:46.710 --> 19:50.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not only foreign exchange, it could be anywhere in the country.
[19:50.970 --> 19:56.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And usually with remote call forwarding there is no actual physical phone line involved.
[19:57.130 --> 20:01.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: All it is is a phone number and an office equipment number at the switching system.
[20:02.630 --> 20:12.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And just by entering in a sequence of commands on the switching computer itself, they could redirect the calls from that number to anywhere in the country or really anywhere in the world.
[20:12.470 --> 20:20.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I've never heard of anyone getting remote call forwarding for somewhere else on the planet usually tends to be in the United States.
[20:22.270 --> 20:22.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[20:22.890 --> 20:25.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: How would you turn such a thing off if you did have something on?
[20:25.450 --> 20:26.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't.
[20:26.410 --> 20:28.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's something that's set up by the phone company.
[20:28.690 --> 20:29.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a special order.
[20:30.350 --> 20:37.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's probably why if they used that, they went on their way to that kind of What do you think of this?
[20:37.410 --> 20:38.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: This kind of shenanigan?
[20:38.610 --> 20:41.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it just some sort of a prank here?
[20:41.030 --> 20:42.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are we looking at something more serious?
[20:42.190 --> 20:43.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Should we be calling in the stormtroopers or what?
[20:44.670 --> 21:02.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, in and of itself, it sounds really silly, but I think in the larger scheme of things, the MO of everything that's going on seems to be being perpetrated by the same group of people.
[21:02.910 --> 21:10.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: The whole internet liberation front and the whole posse thing and the not-too-distant past and now this business.
[21:10.570 --> 21:19.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you think there's reality to it or are people just flinging around a bunch of names or are they organized groups here or is it just pretty much the way it's been in the past?
[21:19.730 --> 21:31.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's just a loosely knit organization of friends and friends of friends that are just causing mischief.
[21:33.350 --> 21:33.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[21:34.810 --> 21:43.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have also as guest with us today somebody who was quite insistent on being allowed to speak their mind.
[21:43.430 --> 21:44.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Whoops, I'm sorry about that.
[21:45.430 --> 21:51.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Someone who runs an internet site here in New York actually.
[21:51.950 --> 22:01.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't want to give out too many details, but I believe, sir, you had something you wanted to read from the Bible that pertains to these people.
[22:02.950 --> 22:03.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ezekiel, I believe?
[22:04.310 --> 22:06.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Ezekiel 25, 17.
[22:06.510 --> 22:06.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[22:07.750 --> 22:16.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
[22:16.550 --> 22:17.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Very true.
[22:17.250 --> 22:24.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness.
[22:25.030 --> 22:25.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: I hear you.
[22:25.570 --> 22:30.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
[22:30.870 --> 22:31.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Word.
[22:31.470 --> 22:41.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
[22:41.990 --> 22:49.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
[22:49.690 --> 22:49.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[22:55.090 --> 22:59.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it wasn't really necessary to fire the guns, but I guess it did add to the point.
[22:59.730 --> 23:00.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[23:00.770 --> 23:01.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[23:01.430 --> 23:03.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: One internet provider here in New York.
[23:06.710 --> 23:07.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[23:09.130 --> 23:13.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know it's against FCC rules to fire weapons in the studio.
[23:14.410 --> 23:15.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay.
[23:15.350 --> 23:16.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's one way of looking at it.
[23:17.010 --> 23:23.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did you happen to hear what happened to our friends out in California, Richard Thomas, Amateur Action Bulletin Board System?
[23:23.890 --> 23:24.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not lately.
[23:25.010 --> 23:31.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: This came from the Associated Press dated December 3rd.
[23:31.750 --> 23:33.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is pretty sick if you ask me.
[23:35.250 --> 23:47.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: The case involved, as the case in Pensacola seems to involve, pornographic or just sexually oriented pictures, GIFs, being distributed.
[23:47.920 --> 23:52.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: In this particular case, the Amateur Action Bulletin Board was being run out of California.
[23:53.040 --> 23:56.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was no problem with California laws.
[23:57.580 --> 24:06.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: It pretty much fit into the definitions of what was defined as acceptable in the community there.
[24:06.270 --> 24:08.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, different communities have different standards.
[24:09.070 --> 24:19.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we here at BAI are always thinking about that because community standards are what the FCC uses as a virtual crutch to define what you can and cannot do on the radio.
[24:20.150 --> 24:25.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: The community standards of New York are a lot different than the community standards of Paducah, Kentucky.
[24:27.130 --> 24:39.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, in this particular case, what's really kind of nutso here is the fact that this bulletin board was called by somebody in Memphis, Tennessee who took offense.
[24:40.050 --> 24:49.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they actually were able to try the system operators of a bulletin board in California based on the community standards of Memphis, Tennessee.
[24:49.730 --> 25:03.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's sort of like, you know, somebody reaching his arm out of the grave from the 18th century pulling you back and saying, you know, I don't like the kind of talk you're spouting here because it offends me.
[25:03.910 --> 25:12.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Never mind that certain people have evolved faster than other people and that some of us are Neanderthals and some of us are Einsteins.
[25:14.990 --> 25:16.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: This actually happened.
[25:16.710 --> 25:30.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it gets worse because as of December 3rd, the two of them, the couple who we have spoken to, we spoke to Robert Thomas on the radio here a couple years ago.
[25:30.930 --> 25:35.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: They drew sentences of at least two and a half years in prison for this.
[25:36.310 --> 25:43.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: For sending pornographic images via computer in a case that raises questions about how to apply obscenity law in cyberspace.
[25:44.910 --> 25:55.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: The prosecution of Robert Thomas and his wife Carleen was the first obscenity case in which operators of a computer bulletin board were charged in the place where the material was received rather than where it originated.
[25:56.230 --> 26:01.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Thomases were found guilty in July of transmitting obscenity via interstate telephone lines.
[26:01.470 --> 26:07.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: A postal inspector testified that he joined the bulletin board under a fake name and received the images in his computer in Memphis.
[26:08.790 --> 26:12.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Robert Thomas was sentenced to 37 months in prison.
[26:12.990 --> 26:15.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Carleen received 30 months under federal sentencing rules.
[26:16.090 --> 26:18.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Both must serve the full term.
[26:21.690 --> 26:29.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: The judge, Judge Julia Gibbons, said that the government can seize the couple's computers to run the amateur action bulletin board.
[26:30.750 --> 26:33.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, of course, their lawyer will be launching an appeal.
[26:35.630 --> 26:37.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: One of the appeal arguments will focus on the U.S.
[26:37.850 --> 26:42.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Supreme Court's 1973 ruling that defines obscenity by local community standards.
[26:44.350 --> 26:50.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Critics of the government's case say that with the advent of computer networks which have no boundaries, the meaning of local community is debatable.
[26:52.970 --> 27:01.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a couple argue that at the trial they were prosecuted in Memphis because it was a conservative city and it increased the chances of a conviction and lo and behold they got one.
[27:01.950 --> 27:03.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: That case really frightens me.
[27:04.290 --> 27:07.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, we had something here a couple of years ago.
[27:07.890 --> 27:09.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Ecstasy Channel, remember that?
[27:09.550 --> 27:11.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Satellite Channel came out of New York.
[27:12.210 --> 27:23.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: And somebody I think in Mississippi or Georgia or someplace like that was upset by the fact that this pornographic satellite channel was being rained down from the heavens.
[27:23.070 --> 27:26.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they actually were able to get the thing put out of business.
[27:27.310 --> 27:28.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really happened.
[27:29.010 --> 27:31.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the guy didn't go to jail, you know.
[27:31.190 --> 27:32.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: He lost his business.
[27:32.430 --> 27:33.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that really is terrible.
[27:34.250 --> 27:35.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: These people are going to jail.
[27:35.510 --> 27:35.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have kids.
[27:36.050 --> 27:37.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have children.
[27:37.150 --> 27:37.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have a family.
[27:37.690 --> 27:41.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are decent people in their community.
[27:41.830 --> 27:46.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they're being sent to prison for upwards of three years.
[27:47.290 --> 27:48.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's incredible.
[27:48.190 --> 27:52.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if they have to go to prison in Tennessee, which would really be pits.
[27:53.030 --> 27:56.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you know about that federal guideline that says they have to serve the whole thing?
[27:56.610 --> 28:00.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: What happened to, I mean, murderers getting out on parole in 18 months?
[28:00.050 --> 28:01.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: These are state charges, right?
[28:02.610 --> 28:04.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you know, are they state charges?
[28:05.690 --> 28:12.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: I believe they're based on Memphis, Tennessee community standards.
[28:16.330 --> 28:24.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: But this kind of thing is being allowed by it's not really clear in this article if it's federal or if it's state.
[28:25.750 --> 28:27.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's something, that's a good question.
[28:27.690 --> 28:31.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: They did say under federal guidelines?
[28:31.670 --> 28:33.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, under federal sentencing rules.
[28:33.230 --> 28:34.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I would indicate that it is.
[28:34.690 --> 28:35.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it doesn't make sense.
[28:35.650 --> 28:40.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: If it's federal, how could they be charged according to community standards in the state of Tennessee?
[28:40.350 --> 28:42.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, whose community standards are the feds going to use?
[28:43.370 --> 28:46.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no federal community standards, so they have to pick one.
[28:46.910 --> 28:52.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And apparently they said, okay, you guys can be the community here that we're going to have standards for.
[28:53.670 --> 29:01.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is something I think everybody should be in an outrage about, uproar about, because just think of where this is going to lead.
[29:02.150 --> 29:05.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: We in New York are always offending people in other parts of the country.
[29:05.730 --> 29:12.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now we can be sent to jail for it if we send out a message on the net, or a picture on the net, or something like that.
[29:12.690 --> 29:20.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think, you know, unlike this is where I really veer off the road with the Democrats, who I think are a bunch of wimps, you gotta fight fire with fire.
[29:20.630 --> 29:31.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to start standing up to people that have receding IQs and want to impose them on everybody else, and you have to just start throwing things back in their face, you know?
[29:32.090 --> 29:49.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have to apologize for being liberal, you don't have to apologize for thinking one way or veering one way, just do it, be proud of it, and you know, as long as people are not forcing others to go live their lifestyle, there's no problem, but that's not what's happening.
[29:49.510 --> 29:50.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's not what's happening.
[29:50.690 --> 29:55.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Conservative views in this country are very aggressive and they're only going to get more so.
[29:56.030 --> 30:03.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's something I think we really better take into account as connectivity increases.
[30:04.910 --> 30:08.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speaking of feds, the FCC is auctioning off some more frequencies.
[30:08.550 --> 30:09.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is one of your favorite things, isn't it?
[30:11.250 --> 30:19.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: you don't like the idea of carving up the electromagnetic spectrum like a pizza pie is, I think, a really ridiculous idea.
[30:19.990 --> 30:22.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, who's going to sell light next or something?
[30:23.050 --> 30:27.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the thing with light is, you know, we can all see the sun at the same time.
[30:28.230 --> 30:35.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we can all see a light bulb at the same time, but if 50 different people are broadcasting a 99.5 at the same time, it could be, you know, problematic, don't you think?
[30:35.950 --> 30:38.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, to a degree, yeah, but
[30:44.840 --> 30:47.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: inherently universally wrong with it.
[30:47.680 --> 30:47.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[30:49.020 --> 30:55.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think there should be a lot more space on the commercial radio dials for all kinds of variety.
[30:55.700 --> 31:01.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's amazing how much of the sameness you keep hearing when you tune the dials.
[31:01.520 --> 31:12.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, maybe more space wouldn't solve that because with cable now, we get something like 750 channels now, and I keep saying the same things over and over again, no matter what, and it's all the same crap, you know?
[31:12.520 --> 31:13.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really is.
[31:15.360 --> 31:21.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you even have stations like Bravo, Fine Arts TV, and they're not allowed to say four-letter words.
[31:21.420 --> 31:22.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, Fine Arts, you know?
[31:23.040 --> 31:24.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: They cuss sometimes.
[31:25.540 --> 31:28.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a production of Sid and Nancy the other night.
[31:29.060 --> 31:31.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can you imagine Sid and Nancy without four-letter words?
[31:31.520 --> 31:32.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: They had all these spaces.
[31:32.820 --> 31:36.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was like, you know, somebody turning on and off the knob every two seconds.
[31:37.500 --> 31:40.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a farce, and this is something you pay for.
[31:40.440 --> 31:50.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: You pay for this on cable, yet for some reason, somebody in Kansas or some farmer in Ohio or something is upset, and you have to live by his rules.
[31:51.160 --> 31:51.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not right.
[31:54.440 --> 32:01.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to be an interesting next couple of years, though, with people like Jesse Helms and Newt Gingrich at the forefront.
[32:01.680 --> 32:03.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: By the way, I figured something out.
[32:03.780 --> 32:05.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know the little animal creatures, Newt's, right?
[32:06.580 --> 32:06.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[32:07.400 --> 32:08.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're cold-blooded.
[32:08.480 --> 32:09.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Think about it.
[32:09.400 --> 32:09.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[32:09.920 --> 32:10.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Newt's are cold-blooded.
[32:11.280 --> 32:11.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[32:11.920 --> 32:13.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I see some bumper stickers in that.
[32:14.920 --> 32:24.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the money from the bumper stickers can go to help other liberal type causes, you know, further tear down the fabric of moral upbringing and all that.
[32:24.500 --> 32:31.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, yeah, the phone frequencies, this is for PCSs, for personal communication services.
[32:31.780 --> 32:33.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Star Trek.
[32:33.340 --> 32:37.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is basically walking around with a communicator and somebody beeping you and you're there.
[32:37.660 --> 32:40.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's a phone number you carry around with you all the time.
[32:40.980 --> 32:45.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nothing here about it being implanted or required by law, but that, of course, is something around the corner.
[32:47.380 --> 32:49.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a 2 gigahertz band of the spectrum.
[32:49.360 --> 32:51.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's been set aside for the new wireless communication services.
[32:52.420 --> 32:56.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: They'll include portable phones, computers, fax machines, and other imaging devices.
[32:57.360 --> 33:00.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: They'll be sold in 30 megahertz and 10 megahertz slices.
[33:01.740 --> 33:03.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just like a pizza pie, yes.
[33:05.200 --> 33:09.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Megahertz and gigahertz are large and larger units of radio frequency.
[33:09.240 --> 33:10.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's an official Newsday explanation.
[33:16.700 --> 33:22.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: These frequencies are currently used as auxiliary frequencies for police, fire departments, and the military.
[33:23.280 --> 33:27.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those services will be relocated to different frequencies at the expense of the new user.
[33:27.580 --> 33:29.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I don't know what these frequencies are.
[33:29.260 --> 33:32.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anyone out there knows what the frequencies to these new services are, I'd love to know.
[33:33.080 --> 33:34.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I'm sure my scanner will get them.
[33:34.920 --> 33:35.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hope so.
[33:35.820 --> 33:39.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's become so difficult now to find scanners that get 800 megahertz.
[33:40.260 --> 33:45.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you can't get those ICOM R, was it, four SRAs or two SRAs anymore.
[33:45.960 --> 33:48.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can get them, but they have 800 megahertz blocked out.
[33:48.640 --> 33:57.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I don't know how much a scanner is going to do for you, considering these are probably going to be in the microwave range if they're finding a spare two whole gigahertz.
[33:57.440 --> 34:03.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they say that this is currently used by fire departments and police.
[34:03.540 --> 34:04.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are they up that high?
[34:04.820 --> 34:09.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's probably just, yeah, it must be a really huge chunk of the spectrum in the microwave range that's reserved for them.
[34:11.440 --> 34:11.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[34:12.100 --> 34:15.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, we'll have to get microwave scanners and little things like that.
[34:15.640 --> 34:17.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: There'll always be new toys to play with.
[34:17.460 --> 34:22.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I don't know when that's going to actually start, but it's something that's been on the horizon for a while.
[34:23.540 --> 34:26.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you think you're going out and getting cellular phones don't, because they're rip-offs.
[34:27.660 --> 34:31.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're extremely big and bulky and they won't work as well as these things.
[34:32.140 --> 34:36.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And one of the things they say that everybody seems to agree with is that the cost of cellular phones has to be cut in half.
[34:37.020 --> 34:38.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's currently something like $60 now.
[34:39.000 --> 34:40.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're talking more like $30.
[34:40.480 --> 34:45.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think they should cut very definitely the cost of an incoming call.
[34:45.300 --> 34:47.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no reason in the world why you should have to pay for that.
[34:48.260 --> 34:55.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I think as more cell sites are put up and more switching systems to handle those cell sites, I think that'll change.
[34:55.620 --> 34:58.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hopefully we'll see the same effect that happened with beeper technology.
[34:59.160 --> 35:01.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: When beepers first came out, they were really expensive.
[35:01.460 --> 35:02.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they were very expensive.
[35:02.740 --> 35:07.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because usually the only people that ever had beepers were doctors and lawyers.
[35:08.040 --> 35:14.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: But as time went by, beepers got smaller, they got more inexpensive and more ubiquitous.
[35:14.480 --> 35:23.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And now most everyone can have a beeper or does have a beeper and pays possibly as little as $5 a month.
[35:24.180 --> 35:26.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's pretty cheap.
[35:26.180 --> 35:26.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[35:26.440 --> 35:27.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can get away with that.
[35:27.520 --> 35:30.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can get voicemail and various other things as well.
[35:32.220 --> 35:38.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, before we start taking some phone calls here, this is something that really ticked me off here.
[35:39.340 --> 35:43.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody showed me this article in the New York Post.
[35:44.440 --> 35:49.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this article is based on an ad that appeared in Village Voice.
[35:50.600 --> 35:53.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Front page of the New York Post.
[35:54.060 --> 35:54.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Big letters.
[35:55.280 --> 35:57.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: City Spy Cam's Baird.
[35:57.880 --> 36:00.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Firm Reveals Secret Traps for Drivers.
[36:00.660 --> 36:08.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I don't know if you remember this, but a couple of months ago, several months ago, the summer issue of 2600, was it?
[36:08.540 --> 36:09.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or was it the spring issue?
[36:10.020 --> 36:13.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: We printed all the addresses of all the cameras in New York City.
[36:14.860 --> 36:15.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every single one.
[36:15.960 --> 36:17.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: We just did it, you know?
[36:17.500 --> 36:19.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: We didn't make a big deal out of it.
[36:19.160 --> 36:25.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: So then this company goes and they take out an ad in a paper and they say, stop paying tickets.
[36:25.540 --> 36:27.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Learn law enforcement inside secrets.
[36:27.820 --> 36:28.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Eight dollars.
[36:28.580 --> 36:31.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Find out New York City's hidden red light camera locations.
[36:34.160 --> 36:34.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Unbelievable.
[36:35.080 --> 36:37.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Excel Services Department C.
[36:38.500 --> 36:39.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: P.O.
[36:39.160 --> 36:41.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Box 120-071 Staten Island.
[36:43.080 --> 36:48.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the New York Post came out and did an article on it.
[36:48.480 --> 36:52.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: One of the city's most closely guarded secrets, the locations of its hidden traffic light cameras is out.
[36:54.580 --> 36:56.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: and they explained how it was being done.
[36:57.500 --> 37:00.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then they went and they printed all the addresses right there in the New York Post.
[37:00.580 --> 37:01.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: You think they ordered the list?
[37:01.820 --> 37:03.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess they must have.
[37:03.440 --> 37:06.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because I don't think they subscribed to 2600.
[37:09.820 --> 37:15.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: But according to the Department of Transportation, the purpose of not making the locations public was to create a greater deterrent effect.
[37:16.720 --> 37:17.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[37:18.440 --> 37:25.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those cameras, by the way, they take pictures of people that run red lights, or the cars, anyway, that run red lights, and get their license plates and mail you a ticket.
[37:25.960 --> 37:28.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nice and convenient, no human contact necessary.
[37:30.140 --> 37:35.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Post answered Excel's ad the first time it ran and received a list of 18 locations.
[37:36.420 --> 37:39.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: The camera box was located at each of the spots our reporter visited.
[37:39.320 --> 37:42.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: They actually went out and sent somebody to confirm all these sightings.
[37:44.780 --> 37:46.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the same list is here.
[37:46.260 --> 37:46.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Same list.
[37:46.900 --> 37:48.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the New York Post gets the credit for it.
[37:48.720 --> 37:50.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, that really bugs me here.
[37:50.220 --> 37:52.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is November 25th of the New York Post.
[37:53.140 --> 37:55.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we had it out six months earlier.
[37:55.920 --> 37:56.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll tell you.
[37:57.120 --> 38:00.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yet another example of the unfairness of society.
[38:01.560 --> 38:02.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm ready for some phone calls.
[38:02.740 --> 38:03.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: How about you?
[38:03.420 --> 38:03.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[38:04.120 --> 38:04.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[38:05.060 --> 38:09.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our phone number, as usual, is 212-279-3400.
[38:10.440 --> 38:21.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you're listening to Off the Hook, the program that talks about telephones and new technology, big brother, future, the future, the past, and whatever else is on your mind.
[38:21.120 --> 38:21.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[38:21.860 --> 38:22.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[38:22.660 --> 38:23.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you?
[38:23.080 --> 38:23.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, Phiber.
[38:23.960 --> 38:24.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[38:24.340 --> 38:25.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: How is it you're always the first caller?
[38:25.920 --> 38:26.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I'm not...
[38:26.780 --> 38:27.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[38:27.660 --> 38:30.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wanted to mention some strange phone systems today.
[38:31.600 --> 38:32.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, were you using them?
[38:33.000 --> 38:33.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, no.
[38:33.720 --> 38:33.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[38:34.120 --> 38:35.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Then what's strange about them?
[38:35.100 --> 38:38.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Phone system number one is up at Morrisville College in upstate New York.
[38:38.940 --> 38:40.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I hear that's beautiful this time of year.
[38:40.940 --> 38:41.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[38:41.120 --> 38:43.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, I'm thinking of coming back there.
[38:43.400 --> 38:51.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, I would, I would hardly recommend that because, uh, it's, it's really nice, especially, uh, I think they have their winter festival which begins tomorrow.
[38:51.940 --> 38:52.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, well...
[38:52.320 --> 38:52.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go to hurry.
[38:52.860 --> 38:53.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to miss it.
[38:53.700 --> 38:54.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway...
[38:54.140 --> 38:54.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[38:55.340 --> 38:56.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, go ahead.
[38:56.240 --> 39:04.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: The phone system, um, in the dorms where the students live, um, the whole town exchange is 684.
[39:05.200 --> 39:05.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[39:05.740 --> 39:08.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it goes 315-684.
[39:08.260 --> 39:12.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: And now, the dorms have this block of numbers, like the last four digits.
[39:12.540 --> 39:14.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: All the, the first number is 4.
[39:14.920 --> 39:17.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it would be 684-4-1-2-3.
[39:17.980 --> 39:20.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: 684-4-1-9-3.
[39:20.280 --> 39:22.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's less, less than a thousand students.
[39:22.500 --> 39:22.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[39:23.020 --> 39:23.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[39:23.580 --> 39:31.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, the thing is, is that when you call 684-4-whatever, you get directly into the dorm, into the room, whatever room you call.
[39:32.400 --> 39:38.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: When you make an outgoing call, let's say an operator-assisted call, you don't have to dial 9-er in it.
[39:38.440 --> 39:41.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: You just dial the number, meaning O-operator number.
[39:41.380 --> 39:45.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: They have on their ANI, they have it at 684-4-1000.
[39:45.520 --> 39:46.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Which is probably...
[39:46.060 --> 39:51.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: When I tried calling 684-4-1000, I get somebody in the central office for some reason.
[39:51.600 --> 39:54.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the Morrisville Central Office DMS-10 switch.
[39:55.020 --> 39:56.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he must be really thrilled to hear from you.
[39:58.760 --> 40:00.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, I sort of made friends with the guy.
[40:00.360 --> 40:01.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: He told me a little bit about the switch.
[40:01.980 --> 40:03.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's how I got to see the DMS-10.
[40:03.940 --> 40:04.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: DMS-10?
[40:04.720 --> 40:05.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can't you hold those in your hands?
[40:06.300 --> 40:07.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: A little bit.
[40:07.580 --> 40:08.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've seen it.
[40:08.620 --> 40:09.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[40:09.240 --> 40:10.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've never seen a 100.
[40:10.400 --> 40:14.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: DMS-10 is what they have up in the northern territories of Canada, serving remote communities.
[40:14.980 --> 40:17.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: But they have a thing that they're...
[40:17.220 --> 40:21.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's like a host of a DMS-100 out in another town.
[40:21.760 --> 40:25.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Which I think is in a 607 area code, if I'm not mistaken.
[40:26.340 --> 40:28.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I don't think they're on a centric.
[40:28.540 --> 40:30.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: You cannot dial directly dial calls.
[40:30.480 --> 40:31.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You only have to dial 0+.
[40:31.980 --> 40:38.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the operators know that you're calling from a university, although they know that your phone number is 4,000.
[40:38.620 --> 40:39.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: 6, 8, 4, 4,000.
[40:40.800 --> 40:44.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, 4,000, that's probably just the main billing account number.
[40:44.320 --> 40:48.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, because when you dial 0, you get regular 9, the GTE operator.
[40:49.080 --> 40:51.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, but they won't connect you to anything you want, will they?
[40:52.040 --> 40:52.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[40:52.580 --> 40:55.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: They'll say, oh, sorry, you're calling from a university phone or whatever.
[40:55.480 --> 40:55.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[40:55.940 --> 40:57.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Will they tell you the number you're calling from?
[40:57.640 --> 40:59.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they'll say 6, 8, 4, 4,000.
[40:59.140 --> 40:59.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[40:59.380 --> 41:03.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the number that shows up, and that number shows up with a restriction saying that you can't bill to it.
[41:03.020 --> 41:10.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right, but why, if my number's 4123, when you dial it, you'd get like a DID thing?
[41:11.740 --> 41:13.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be.
[41:13.700 --> 41:15.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: It could be generating different ANI.
[41:15.820 --> 41:18.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just specified as the billing telephone number.
[41:18.160 --> 41:18.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could do that anywhere.
[41:19.140 --> 41:20.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can do that at home if I wanted to.
[41:21.060 --> 41:29.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, in fact, it was done to us at 2600 without our knowledge once our fax machine was turned into, if you dialed 958, you got a different phone number.
[41:29.420 --> 41:35.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: You got our main billing number, and that played havoc with our long distance company because they wouldn't allow casual use.
[41:35.940 --> 41:41.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: You had to dial direct from the number you were calling from, and they were seeing the main number and saying, hey, they don't have an account.
[41:41.960 --> 41:44.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So even though we did have an account, we couldn't make any calls.
[41:44.180 --> 41:46.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: wait a minute, are you saying that you were hooked up to a PDX?
[41:47.580 --> 41:48.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, no.
[41:48.660 --> 41:50.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: This has to do with ANI.
[41:50.900 --> 41:53.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: So in a individual 958, you get a different number?
[41:53.700 --> 41:54.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, in that particular case.
[41:58.540 --> 42:11.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: But now, the other thing that I wanted to mention is that the public safety department has these walkie-talkies that when you call them, like, their walkie-talkies are hooked up to their telephone or something, it's like a walkie-talkie, it looks like a scanner,
[42:11.760 --> 42:15.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: but it has, like, one, the number, you know, the numbers of the telephone.
[42:16.120 --> 42:17.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does it have a switch hook on the side, too?
[42:18.100 --> 42:21.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, actually, the switch hook is the, you know, the button that you push to talk.
[42:22.080 --> 42:22.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[42:22.540 --> 42:27.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: The talk, and then you say, you speak, and then you release it to listen to what the other person's saying.
[42:27.700 --> 42:28.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: How does that work?
[42:28.780 --> 42:31.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it sounds like they're just patching phone calls through.
[42:31.320 --> 42:32.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anybody can do that.
[42:32.320 --> 42:33.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Through a walkie-talkie?
[42:33.540 --> 42:35.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, a lot of hams do that all the time.
[42:35.640 --> 42:40.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this seems like a special walkie-talkie unit that has the telephone key paired.
[42:40.640 --> 42:42.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: into it, and you can dial from it, too.
[42:42.560 --> 42:43.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Any scanner has a keypad.
[42:43.580 --> 42:45.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Any scanner has a touch-tone keypad on it.
[42:46.260 --> 42:46.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[42:46.800 --> 42:46.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[42:47.100 --> 42:48.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: They happen to be making use of it.
[42:48.960 --> 42:52.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you just hook the bass up to your telephone?
[42:53.300 --> 42:55.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, it has nothing to do with the telephone at all.
[42:55.600 --> 43:02.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Touch-tones are used on ham radio to program repeaters, to use all kinds of things.
[43:02.180 --> 43:02.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I understand that.
[43:03.160 --> 43:06.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: But when I called the direct number, I got the radio, the walkie-talkie.
[43:07.380 --> 43:10.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: They might have the phone lines connected through a repeater.
[43:10.320 --> 43:17.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: and have a radio transceiver hooked up to it, so that they could signal the telephones through their walking-talkie, if that's what they're doing.
[43:18.260 --> 43:22.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can have all kinds of bizarre systems, because up there, there's a lot of time to think.
[43:22.600 --> 43:26.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can't figure out that Marshall's dorm systems, can you?
[43:27.780 --> 43:28.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Storm systems?
[43:28.800 --> 43:29.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dorm is phone systems.
[43:29.840 --> 43:30.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, dorm systems.
[43:31.040 --> 43:31.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[43:31.780 --> 43:32.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: What is there to figure out?
[43:32.640 --> 43:34.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that doesn't sound like much of a mystery to me.
[43:34.360 --> 43:36.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a phone number when you dial the zero.
[43:36.820 --> 43:44.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and we explained to you that that's very possible just by changing your ANI with the phone company for what billing number you want to have show.
[43:44.340 --> 43:49.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rather than have a thousand different numbers showing up on bills, they decide to have one.
[43:49.900 --> 43:53.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: But isn't it easy when you get the bill that you get the phone number of the exact...
[43:53.700 --> 43:56.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you see, they're not going to be getting a bill that's very big because you won't be able to...
[43:56.740 --> 43:58.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm saying when you make a call or call or something.
[43:58.780 --> 44:02.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: When I made a call or call to home, 684-4000 showed up on the bill.
[44:02.200 --> 44:03.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they don't care about you.
[44:03.960 --> 44:05.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're not doing it for your benefit.
[44:05.360 --> 44:06.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're doing it for their benefit.
[44:07.160 --> 44:07.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see?
[44:09.020 --> 44:13.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, you'll have to get used to that fact, but they're not doing it for your convenience.
[44:13.540 --> 44:20.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, I also want to mention that the new 516 exchange, which is in New York City, but it's not an exchange yet.
[44:21.040 --> 44:24.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's sort of the only exchange for the 25 cents to 30 seconds pay funds.
[44:25.860 --> 44:28.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And when you dial 958, it says 516 whatever.
[44:29.040 --> 44:29.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: But when you call...
[44:29.720 --> 44:30.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where is this located?
[44:30.960 --> 44:32.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Grand Central and Penn Station.
[44:33.280 --> 44:33.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[44:33.960 --> 44:35.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, that's been there for a while, hasn't it?
[44:35.640 --> 44:39.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but when you call 958, it says the number, 516 whatever.
[44:39.420 --> 44:42.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: But when you call it from outside, from another phone, it doesn't work.
[44:42.400 --> 44:44.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: It says call from there and complete it.
[44:44.160 --> 44:45.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe they don't take incoming calls.
[44:47.680 --> 44:51.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Any, if you dial 516-9901, it still, you know, doesn't work.
[44:52.140 --> 44:52.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[44:53.460 --> 44:53.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[44:54.020 --> 44:55.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we'll check into that.
[44:55.580 --> 44:59.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: It could be on an in-house switch that's located in the vicinity.
[44:59.400 --> 45:00.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a DID.
[45:01.200 --> 45:04.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it is at pay funds in Penn Station.
[45:04.060 --> 45:04.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've seen it.
[45:05.000 --> 45:05.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:05.900 --> 45:10.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm saying you can have a small in-house switch handling or serving all the pay phones in a given area.
[45:10.940 --> 45:13.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what they do in the World Trade Center, South Tower.
[45:13.060 --> 45:13.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[45:13.940 --> 45:17.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, actually, those are call cards, which is another thing I'm going to mention.
[45:17.100 --> 45:19.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that where you dialed 2-1-1 or something for emergency?
[45:20.560 --> 45:21.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I forget.
[45:21.300 --> 45:22.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't been to the Trade Center in a while.
[45:22.260 --> 45:26.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: World Trade Center, there was something weird where you didn't dial 9-1-1, you dialed something else on the pay phones there.
[45:26.880 --> 45:27.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I couldn't quite figure that out.
[45:27.980 --> 45:28.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: 3-1-1?
[45:28.760 --> 45:30.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but now they're on call cards.
[45:30.960 --> 45:31.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, they changed it?
[45:31.860 --> 45:33.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, TCG call cards.
[45:33.300 --> 45:33.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[45:33.900 --> 45:34.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[45:34.200 --> 45:38.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Used to be able to make free phone calls by dialing the operator and having her connected with 4-1-1.
[45:41.220 --> 45:46.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: The TCG operator used to be able to dial 4-1-1 and when you got the number you got the option of connecting.
[45:46.240 --> 45:47.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But that doesn't work anymore.
[45:47.340 --> 45:49.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, things are changing for the worse everywhere.
[45:49.320 --> 45:50.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Listen, we're going to get on to another phone call.
[45:50.740 --> 45:51.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for all the info.
[45:51.920 --> 45:52.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, you're on.
[45:52.940 --> 45:54.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[45:54.980 --> 45:55.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello?
[45:55.560 --> 45:56.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speak up.
[45:57.640 --> 45:58.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, go ahead.
[45:59.280 --> 46:00.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello, how are you doing?
[46:11.100 --> 46:19.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Today, when I was in the city, I saw a yellow phone near Murray Street.
[46:20.240 --> 46:21.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: You saw a yellow phone?
[46:21.960 --> 46:23.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, and it was a 9X phone.
[46:24.700 --> 46:28.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, now, you saw a yellow phone that was a 9X phone?
[46:28.580 --> 46:29.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[46:29.520 --> 46:30.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure I understand.
[46:30.940 --> 46:31.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a pay phone?
[46:32.040 --> 46:33.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was a pay phone, I think.
[46:33.540 --> 46:37.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wasn't able to examine it because I had to get to a certain place.
[46:37.260 --> 46:39.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering if you knew anything about it.
[46:40.020 --> 46:42.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, was it sitting there in the street a yellow phone?
[46:42.840 --> 46:45.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it was just like a regular telephone.
[46:47.900 --> 46:49.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was in a public place?
[46:49.600 --> 46:49.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[46:51.020 --> 46:51.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[46:52.000 --> 46:53.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sounds like one of those emergency phones.
[46:55.180 --> 47:00.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: It had 9X on it and it was just like a regular pay phone.
[47:00.740 --> 47:02.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, where is this located?
[47:02.240 --> 47:02.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll send a team out.
[47:03.080 --> 47:05.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Near Murray Street and Chambers Street.
[47:05.480 --> 47:06.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, Murray Street and Chambers.
[47:07.260 --> 47:07.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: You guys are going to take it?
[47:07.980 --> 47:08.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[47:08.480 --> 47:10.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're sending a couple of guys out to check it out.
[47:11.340 --> 47:12.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, good luck finding it.
[47:13.240 --> 47:15.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry I can't tell you better.
[47:15.580 --> 47:22.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's probably wise for you not to get too involved with it because these kind of things can be dangerous.
[47:23.040 --> 47:26.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I love playing with pay phones, but still.
[47:26.440 --> 47:26.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[47:27.380 --> 47:28.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Enough is enough.
[47:28.280 --> 47:28.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for calling.
[47:29.940 --> 47:30.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[47:30.480 --> 47:31.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[47:32.200 --> 47:33.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just had a question.
[47:34.860 --> 47:39.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: In 516, just recently, we have to dial that one before we make a long distance call.
[47:39.980 --> 47:40.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't that inconvenient?
[47:41.200 --> 47:42.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a pain in the neck.
[47:42.400 --> 47:43.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Join the rest of the country.
[47:43.500 --> 47:44.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, but you know what?
[47:44.200 --> 47:52.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: In the switch that I am in, you don't have to dial one before an 800 number, and if you dial 10XXX for carrier access code, you don't have to dial one before the area code then.
[47:52.580 --> 47:52.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[47:52.960 --> 47:53.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that fun?
[47:53.420 --> 48:07.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't do it now, but the other thing that really annoyed me was I tried making a collect call, and now even if you're making a collect call to a phone number that's within the 516 area code, you have to dial 0516 and then the number.
[48:07.820 --> 48:09.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's part of the same reason.
[48:10.500 --> 48:14.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Next month, January, is when the new area code system is going to go into effect.
[48:15.020 --> 48:18.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: That means that area codes no longer will have to have one or zero as the middle digit.
[48:19.120 --> 48:25.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: So when you dial zero plus a number, how is it going to know what the first three digits are?
[48:25.840 --> 48:27.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are they an area code or are they not an area code?
[48:27.860 --> 48:37.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: You'd have to rely on some sort of a timeout system where you just dial seven digits and it's waiting for the rest because let's say you were calling a 279 exchange, 0279.
[48:37.940 --> 48:40.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, 279 might be an area code next year too.
[48:40.520 --> 48:44.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but then also I tried dialing 01516, which would seem to make sense.
[48:44.920 --> 48:49.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's going to connect you overseas because 011 is how you dial overseas.
[48:50.040 --> 48:55.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: 011 would be operator-assisted and you'd be connecting to whatever country code is 5-1 or 5-1-6.
[48:55.200 --> 48:55.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: I see.
[48:55.860 --> 48:56.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, be careful with that.
[48:57.140 --> 49:01.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think a lot of people might be making some interesting phone calls in the next couple of weeks.
[49:01.940 --> 49:04.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you get an interesting recording when you try that.
[49:04.300 --> 49:04.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: What'd you get?
[49:05.260 --> 49:06.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even remember.
[49:06.460 --> 49:07.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just something very weird.
[49:07.760 --> 49:10.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: I never tried it again because it kind of scared me actually.
[49:10.780 --> 49:14.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, I think that was probably the intent of the recording was to scare you out of doing that again.
[49:15.480 --> 49:16.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, well, thanks a lot.
[49:16.800 --> 49:17.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[49:18.760 --> 49:24.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every now and then somebody accidentally calls Australia when they want to call something in Minnesota.
[49:24.340 --> 49:29.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the 612 area code, they wind up calling country code 61 winding up down.
[49:29.940 --> 49:33.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they speak English so you don't know, you know, because there's people with Australian accents everywhere.
[49:34.720 --> 49:36.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it can be frightening.
[49:36.960 --> 49:37.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[49:38.920 --> 49:39.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello?
[49:39.640 --> 49:42.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, trying to reach WBAI.
[49:42.180 --> 49:42.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[49:42.820 --> 49:43.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, how's it going?
[49:44.040 --> 49:44.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, how are you?
[49:44.820 --> 49:45.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[49:45.740 --> 49:55.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to ask you guys about if you'd heard anything about the NSA or any information about what they've been up to recently.
[49:56.140 --> 49:57.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: What the NSA has been up to recently.
[49:57.860 --> 50:00.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we're not supposed to talk about the NSA.
[50:00.760 --> 50:02.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't like it when we do.
[50:03.440 --> 50:08.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Recently, well, they're, you know, going around listening to things and writing things down everywhere.
[50:09.020 --> 50:09.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what they do.
[50:10.160 --> 50:11.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: But is there something in particular?
[50:11.840 --> 50:12.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something...
[50:12.240 --> 50:13.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something specific.
[50:13.440 --> 50:14.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, the yellow phone.
[50:15.000 --> 50:16.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe they put the yellow phone downtown.
[50:16.980 --> 50:17.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yellow phone?
[50:17.520 --> 50:18.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, yeah.
[50:20.260 --> 50:24.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I went to their shopping center, which is in Fort George Meade, Maryland.
[50:24.620 --> 50:26.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not really their shopping center.
[50:26.360 --> 50:27.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: They share it with a military base.
[50:27.660 --> 50:34.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's kind of weird when you're there and you realize that the butcher who hands you meat is an employee of the Defense Department.
[50:35.440 --> 50:36.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's exactly true, though.
[50:36.720 --> 50:40.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everybody in the supermarket works for the government in some form.
[50:40.900 --> 50:41.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[50:41.460 --> 50:43.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And everything is really, really cheap there, too.
[50:43.580 --> 50:50.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you can just walk in off the street in Fort George Meade if you can find the place and you can save like at least 20%.
[50:50.160 --> 50:53.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, like a big government town as it were.
[50:53.400 --> 50:56.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm thinking of organizing a few field trips down there and some buses.
[50:56.680 --> 50:59.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we just sort of pile into town and stock up on whatever we need.
[51:00.280 --> 51:01.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, exactly.
[51:01.580 --> 51:04.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you know of any sources for information that might be available?
[51:04.800 --> 51:05.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: On the NSA?
[51:05.760 --> 51:05.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[51:06.480 --> 51:07.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well...
[51:07.000 --> 51:08.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: The Puzzle Palace and other...
[51:08.540 --> 51:10.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, the Puzzle Palace obviously would be something you would have read.
[51:12.400 --> 51:16.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I imagine there must be news groups about this on the net.
[51:16.700 --> 51:17.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you have net access?
[51:17.960 --> 51:18.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Not at the moment.
[51:19.020 --> 51:19.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:19.420 --> 51:22.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping to join to get involved.
[51:23.060 --> 51:26.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look also in your library, you know, a national security agency.
[51:28.680 --> 51:30.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see, what kind of newsletters?
[51:30.260 --> 51:32.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can read things like Full Disclosure.
[51:32.980 --> 51:33.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, all right.
[51:33.580 --> 51:34.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[51:35.280 --> 51:36.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you very much.
[51:36.260 --> 51:36.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate it.
[51:38.160 --> 51:39.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[51:39.660 --> 51:41.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why is there smoke rising from the board?
[51:42.840 --> 51:45.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Perhaps somebody could look into that.
[51:46.020 --> 51:46.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-oh.
[51:48.300 --> 51:49.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I thought something smelled.
[51:49.420 --> 51:56.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, something seems to be on fire here, but technically I'm not supposed to leave the board, so I'm going to continue as if nothing's on the way.
[51:56.180 --> 51:57.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You guys deal with it.
[51:57.800 --> 51:58.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: What could be on fire?
[51:58.940 --> 51:59.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a radio station.
[52:05.100 --> 52:08.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we'll just bravely go on and go down with the sinking ship.
[52:08.220 --> 52:08.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[52:08.620 --> 52:08.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[52:09.560 --> 52:10.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: White smoke or is it black smoke?
[52:11.280 --> 52:12.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: What color would you say the smoke is?
[52:12.520 --> 52:13.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: White or black?
[52:13.180 --> 52:13.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not black.
[52:13.880 --> 52:14.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's white.
[52:14.300 --> 52:14.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's probably white.
[52:15.080 --> 52:15.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, New Pope.
[52:16.760 --> 52:17.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Great show tonight.
[52:17.680 --> 52:18.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: New Pope.
[52:18.380 --> 52:20.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two quick questions about the internet.
[52:21.220 --> 52:21.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: First one.
[52:22.960 --> 52:32.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: When I send an email message out, let's say I have an account with Delphi and you have one with Prodigy and I send a message out, an email message, what's the physical path of that message?
[52:32.720 --> 52:36.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: How does it get from my laptop to your laptop?
[52:37.140 --> 52:44.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: The other question is, if I had an unlimited amount of money and I wanted to be an internet provider, what would I have to do?
[52:46.740 --> 52:56.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, if you wanted to be an internet provider, actually it's too bad Mark's run out into the street waving for the fire trucks because he can answer this question much better than, oh, got the fire extinguisher.
[52:57.360 --> 52:58.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are we going to use it?
[52:58.380 --> 52:59.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are we going to use the fire extinguisher on the air?
[53:00.400 --> 53:01.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never seen this happen before.
[53:02.700 --> 53:03.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, great.
[53:03.820 --> 53:11.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, more important than putting out the blaze right now, this guy has a question about internet access, which I think that you're best qualified to answer.
[53:11.820 --> 53:13.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me just move back from the heat a little bit.
[53:14.560 --> 53:15.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's the question?
[53:15.600 --> 53:16.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I'm sorry.
[53:17.000 --> 53:19.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm kind of distracted here, can you ask the question again?
[53:19.620 --> 53:20.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: First question, real simple.
[53:21.160 --> 53:25.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's say I have an account on Delphi and you have an account on Prodigy and I send you email.
[53:25.780 --> 53:26.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[53:26.440 --> 53:28.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Get from my account to your account.
[53:28.320 --> 53:30.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's the physical path that it takes?
[53:30.500 --> 53:31.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: The physical path?
[53:33.900 --> 53:37.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, what exactly do you mean the physical path?
[53:38.040 --> 53:42.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it doesn't just go up into the ether and magically appear on your computer.
[53:42.700 --> 53:43.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, of course not.
[53:43.340 --> 53:50.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's leased lines that are owned by service providers like Sprint and Alternet and PSI and ANS.
[53:50.500 --> 53:54.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Does the message get split up into packets and sent out?
[53:54.400 --> 53:55.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[53:55.380 --> 53:57.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: It uses the internet protocol.
[53:58.420 --> 54:01.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the internet protocol is the packet switch protocol.
[54:02.240 --> 54:12.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: If I had an unlimited amount of money and I wanted to become an internet provider, I'm trying to get a better idea of what's involved in becoming an internet provider.
[54:12.560 --> 54:13.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: How do you get the leased lines?
[54:13.800 --> 54:14.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: What equipment do you need?
[54:14.900 --> 54:16.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you interested in reselling?
[54:16.300 --> 54:16.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[54:16.940 --> 54:17.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[54:17.620 --> 54:19.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're interested in reselling internet service?
[54:19.460 --> 54:19.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[54:21.100 --> 54:48.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, what you would do is that you'd have to negotiate some kind of deal obviously first with the FCC then after you got that out of the way you'd have to get together with the local telephone company because your lease lines are nothing but big spools of cable unless you could get permission from the local exchange carrier whether it be 9x or whether it be one of the newer companies like Metro
[54:48.560 --> 54:56.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Fiber Services or Teleport you would actually have to be networked through somebody's central office.
[54:56.280 --> 54:56.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[54:56.860 --> 55:06.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Once that happens and I'm an internet provider do other people's messages pass through my equipment or am I kind of a head end No, no, no.
[55:06.360 --> 55:18.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Service provider if you're a large nationwide service provider or even if you're a somewhat large regional provider you would have gateways all over within your region that would be routing messages through them.
[55:20.520 --> 55:20.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[55:21.140 --> 55:21.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does that answer your question?
[55:22.140 --> 55:22.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks a lot.
[55:22.840 --> 55:23.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[55:23.280 --> 55:24.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good luck with your fire.
[55:24.200 --> 55:24.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[55:25.060 --> 55:33.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: To update people on that it seems to be out Anthony Sloan came in here and did something the board was something coming out of the board we don't know for sure yet.
[55:35.440 --> 55:36.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Never a dull moment here.
[55:36.860 --> 55:42.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: How many other radio stations burst into flames while you not only while you're listening but while you're talking over the airwaves?
[55:42.860 --> 55:44.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: We did mention the NSA.
[55:45.760 --> 55:49.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: One of the callers out there figured out a way because it was coming from the phone lines.
[55:49.860 --> 55:50.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really was.
[55:50.460 --> 55:52.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was coming from this area right here where the phones come in.
[55:53.260 --> 55:54.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[55:54.320 --> 55:55.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's some powerful people out there.
[55:56.440 --> 55:56.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[55:56.960 --> 55:57.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the radio.
[55:57.780 --> 55:57.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[55:58.180 --> 55:58.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, go ahead.
[55:58.900 --> 55:59.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi.
[55:59.240 --> 56:02.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to say something about the yellow phone.
[56:02.860 --> 56:03.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[56:03.440 --> 56:03.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[56:03.660 --> 56:04.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's hear it.
[56:04.300 --> 56:08.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's down across from Stuyvesant and basically what it is it's a credit card phone.
[56:09.060 --> 56:12.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: It has a little slot like an ATM and stick in your credit card.
[56:12.800 --> 56:13.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: What kind of credit card?
[56:13.940 --> 56:14.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have no idea.
[56:14.780 --> 56:15.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: I didn't look that close.
[56:16.000 --> 56:18.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it one of those phones that are like the European phones?
[56:19.360 --> 56:21.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: The ones that are by the Staten Island Ferry?
[56:21.600 --> 56:22.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not sure.
[56:22.220 --> 56:23.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't go to the ferry that often.
[56:24.000 --> 56:29.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, does it have like a silver receptacle for the credit card to go in at the bottom?
[56:29.960 --> 56:30.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Kind of.
[56:30.720 --> 56:31.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Kind of in the middle.
[56:32.060 --> 56:32.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's towards the bottom.
[56:33.080 --> 56:34.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: It looks like an ATM slot.
[56:34.880 --> 56:36.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: You stick in your card like
[56:41.740 --> 56:42.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: at card.
[56:42.520 --> 56:45.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, the European phones take disposable debit cards.
[56:45.520 --> 56:46.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're not credit cards.
[56:46.300 --> 56:47.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: They don't have any credit cards slot.
[56:47.700 --> 56:50.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like something for nothing like a metro card.
[56:50.280 --> 56:50.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like a real card.
[56:51.120 --> 56:51.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[56:52.020 --> 56:53.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have you actually seen this up close?
[56:53.700 --> 56:54.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I went in.
[56:54.720 --> 56:56.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't have a credit card, so I couldn't.
[56:56.200 --> 56:58.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did they actually mention the names of credit cards that it accepted?
[56:59.160 --> 56:59.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't believe so.
[57:00.160 --> 57:01.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does it take coins too?
[57:01.460 --> 57:02.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't think so, no.
[57:02.620 --> 57:03.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we're going to have to check this thing out.
[57:04.020 --> 57:04.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it was pretty exciting.
[57:04.980 --> 57:05.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was yellow, so...
[57:05.880 --> 57:07.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow, that's a bizarre concept.
[57:08.120 --> 57:08.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[57:08.660 --> 57:09.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for the call.
[57:09.300 --> 57:09.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for the info.
[57:10.040 --> 57:10.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.
[57:10.540 --> 57:13.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: This goes to show that when you have a question, someone out there has an answer.
[57:15.400 --> 57:17.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're at the end of our time.
[57:17.820 --> 57:21.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hopefully, there'll be a studio here next week so that we can do this again.
[57:21.720 --> 57:28.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: For now, we're going to put on a repeat of the evening's news and scrounge around for more firefighting equipment.
[57:29.440 --> 57:30.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, Phiber, thanks for coming in.
[57:31.060 --> 57:31.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you next week.
[57:32.160 --> 57:32.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[57:32.880 --> 57:33.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: The program is off the hook.
[57:34.040 --> 57:35.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're on Wednesday night from 10 to 11.
[57:36.520 --> 57:37.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: See you next week.