Off The Hook - 1995-03-22

[00:03.550 --> 00:05.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: ...information line of various sorts.
[00:05.230 --> 00:07.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: This is one that's geared towards kids.
[00:08.070 --> 00:08.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's right.
[00:08.810 --> 00:09.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know what they're thinking.
[00:10.390 --> 00:12.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: Why kids would be calling up something like this.
[00:13.350 --> 00:14.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: But this is an 800 number.
[00:17.810 --> 00:18.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[00:18.830 --> 00:20.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: Looking for the number right here.
[00:24.530 --> 00:25.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: There it is.
[00:33.760 --> 00:36.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hey, this is the NYNEX Kids line.
[00:36.400 --> 00:39.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Your telephonic link to everything you ever wanted to know.
[00:40.160 --> 00:45.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: This month, we learn about Call ID, the service that lets people learn your telephone number.
[00:48.310 --> 00:48.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Joey's pizza.
[00:48.940 --> 00:49.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: We make them fast.
[00:49.860 --> 00:50.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: We make them flat.
[00:50.540 --> 00:53.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, Joey, I want to order two large pizzas.
[00:53.200 --> 00:54.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: One with sausage, one with eggplant and tomatoes.
[00:55.170 --> 00:57.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, two pies, one eggplant, tomato, one sausage.
[00:57.720 --> 01:00.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we want to get... You want three large iced teas and an orange soda.
[01:00.760 --> 01:01.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Three iced teas.
[01:01.760 --> 01:03.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, How'd you know that?
[01:03.560 --> 01:06.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're calling from 555-3298, right?
[01:07.000 --> 01:08.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: 555-3298, right!
[01:09.060 --> 01:10.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, what's going on here?
[01:10.680 --> 01:11.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: You a mind reader or what?
[01:11.980 --> 01:13.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, I'll do you one better.
[01:13.260 --> 01:16.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: You live at 27 Maplewood Avenue, apartment 5C.
[01:16.920 --> 01:19.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ooh, play the Twilight Zone music.
[01:20.040 --> 01:21.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:21.340 --> 01:22.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: How'd you know all this?
[01:22.340 --> 01:23.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, you never heard of Call ID?
[01:24.180 --> 01:24.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Call ID?
[01:25.040 --> 01:26.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a phone thing, right?
[01:26.360 --> 01:28.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Call ID is this service from NYNEX.
[01:28.720 --> 01:31.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: I sign up for the service, I buy a little display box, bada-bing.
[01:32.020 --> 01:34.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: It tells me the phone number of who's calling me.
[01:34.320 --> 01:36.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: But the iced tea... Ah, that's easy.
[01:36.580 --> 01:39.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: I got the computer here at the store hooked up to the Call ID box.
[01:40.020 --> 01:43.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: It looks up your number, tells me what you usually order, and where it's going.
[01:43.600 --> 01:45.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can learn all that from Call ID?
[01:45.480 --> 01:45.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no.
[01:46.120 --> 01:48.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Call ID just tells me the phone number.
[01:48.420 --> 01:51.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, so you know the number of everyone who calls, right?
[01:51.900 --> 01:52.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, just about.
[01:53.220 --> 01:59.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: See, if the caller lives out of the area, I won't see the number, and some people dial a special code to keep their number private.
[01:59.200 --> 02:01.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: But other than that, yeah, I see the number.
[02:01.510 --> 02:03.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oof, ah, it's amazing.
[02:03.320 --> 02:06.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can see the number of the person calling you.
[02:06.200 --> 02:08.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, that's what Call ID is all about.
[02:08.800 --> 02:11.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: You get the service from NYNEX, and you buy the box.
[02:11.620 --> 02:14.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, this Call ID, it's already making the pizza?
[02:14.650 --> 02:16.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, ah, you nuts.
[02:16.380 --> 02:18.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: 20 years I'm making pizzas.
[02:18.340 --> 02:22.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't care how smart them phone guys get, they will never replace me, eh?
[02:22.150 --> 02:22.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: I hear you.
[02:22.800 --> 02:23.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I am an artiste.
[02:23.500 --> 02:26.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Call ID service costs extra.
[02:26.330 --> 02:30.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you want to learn more about Call ID, dial the NYNEX privacy line.
[02:37.820 --> 02:41.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: Call ID service costs extra.
[02:41.660 --> 02:58.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Call ID service costs extra.
[02:58.100 --> 03:00.300]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, it's pretty unreal to me.
[03:01.440 --> 03:08.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know where they get these actors or what they... There's really not much you can say about these people.
[03:09.120 --> 03:10.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: Is this a monthly thing?
[03:10.340 --> 03:11.240]  [SPEAKER_24]: They change it every month?
[03:11.340 --> 03:12.800]  [SPEAKER_24]: From what I hear, it's a monthly thing.
[03:12.920 --> 03:17.980]  [SPEAKER_24]: I thought that was the worst stereotype since the monkey in the newspaper incident.
[03:18.960 --> 03:19.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, yeah.
[03:20.000 --> 03:21.180]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, the AT&T thing.
[03:21.540 --> 03:23.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: That was something there.
[03:24.060 --> 03:26.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, it's pretty bad, I guess.
[03:27.360 --> 03:28.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know.
[03:28.160 --> 03:29.300]  [SPEAKER_22]: Do they advertise that in various places?
[03:29.380 --> 03:30.040]  [SPEAKER_22]: I guess they must.
[03:30.440 --> 03:31.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: But I'm sure there's other ones.
[03:31.880 --> 03:38.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's probably numbers geared towards senior citizens and immigrants and emigrants and who knows what else.
[03:39.360 --> 03:45.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: So that's the latest from NYNEX and their politically correct way of dealing with people.
[03:45.480 --> 03:45.940]  [SPEAKER_22]: All right.
[03:45.940 --> 03:52.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: We have a rather startling story coming out of Pennsylvania, which involves somebody that we know.
[03:52.280 --> 03:53.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, and I'm sorry.
[03:53.900 --> 03:59.780]  [SPEAKER_22]: I have a rather lengthy fax here, which I'm going to have to plow through to get to the actual story.
[04:00.980 --> 04:04.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: When something like this happens, it just uses up a lot of resources.
[04:09.730 --> 04:10.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: Ah, here we go.
[04:10.730 --> 04:11.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[04:11.670 --> 04:12.310]  [SPEAKER_22]: Sorry about that.
[04:13.290 --> 04:13.650]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[04:13.750 --> 04:20.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, I don't know how many people remember over the past couple of years, we've had a certain correspondent on the phone with us quite a few times named Bernie S.
[04:20.970 --> 04:29.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: And apparently, some rather weird things have been going on in Pennsylvania that involved him.
[04:30.350 --> 04:41.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: And unfortunately, he seems to be on the road towards some kind of smear campaign based on high technology and various other misperceptions.
[04:41.490 --> 04:44.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: Much the same way that the fiber optic here was sent to prison.
[04:44.910 --> 04:45.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bernie S.
[04:45.810 --> 04:47.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: was recently arrested, too.
[04:47.190 --> 04:53.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: And the incident surrounding this is just kind of bizarre, to say the least.
[04:56.630 --> 05:02.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: The headline on the newspaper yesterday in the Philadelphia Inquirer said, Man charged with phone scheme.
[05:03.670 --> 05:08.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: Haverford police say the defendant possessed high-tech gear for theft of telecommunications.
[05:09.510 --> 05:10.610]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, here we go.
[05:10.750 --> 05:16.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: It was a report of a suspected drug deal in the 7-Eleven parking lot that brought Haverford police to the scene.
[05:16.350 --> 05:27.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: What they found instead, two men pouring over a chapter in the whole spy catalog called How to Locate and Tap Any Telephone, was a lot more interesting.
[05:28.210 --> 05:34.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: From that discovery last week, police and federal authorities have developed an investigation into high-tech fraud.
[05:34.730 --> 05:45.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: One of the two men, Ed Cummings, who is known as Bernie S., has been arrested and charged with two counts each of unlawful use of a computer and possession of devices for theft of telecommunications.
[05:45.810 --> 05:48.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, let's look at that first count, unlawful use of a computer.
[05:48.870 --> 05:59.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's really the only time we're going to hear anything about that, because nowhere, in anything that I've read about this, and I've read quite a bit about it, there's no evidence of anything having to do with any computer.
[05:59.350 --> 06:00.950]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, it says he was repairing a computer.
[06:01.130 --> 06:01.830]  [SPEAKER_22]: He was repairing a computer.
[06:01.850 --> 06:03.030]  [SPEAKER_24]: Perhaps that was the unlawful use.
[06:03.070 --> 06:04.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't think so, because that's what he did for a living.
[06:05.130 --> 06:06.770]  [SPEAKER_22]: He repaired computers and did things like that.
[06:06.770 --> 06:08.130]  [SPEAKER_24]: Sure, he didn't unlawfully repair them?
[06:08.350 --> 06:11.650]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, it doesn't make any reference to that.
[06:12.450 --> 06:12.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know.
[06:13.830 --> 06:20.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, you should be familiar with this, Fiber, where they charge you with doing something with a computer, even if you didn't know you were using a computer at the time, right?
[06:20.270 --> 06:22.650]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can be charged with unlawfully accessing or...
[06:22.650 --> 06:30.410]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, I think there has to be a certain degree of intent and willful knowledge to be charged with trespass or unauthorized use of a computer.
[06:30.750 --> 06:31.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[06:31.950 --> 06:45.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, in the Villanova room where Cummings had been staying, police said they found evidence of a large-scale operation in which Cummings allegedly had been cloning cellular phone numbers and converting speed dialers into red boxes that can make free calls from payphones.
[06:46.470 --> 06:57.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you recall, anyone that went to the Hackers on Planet Earth conference over the summer, Bernie S., did have that cellular software which allowed you basically to make an extension out of your cellular phone.
[06:57.790 --> 07:02.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yes, you could use it to clone a cellular phone too, but that really was the decision of the person using it.
[07:02.730 --> 07:08.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can use a knife to kill someone, or you can use a knife to do something in the kitchen.
[07:08.570 --> 07:11.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's really up to you what you use tools for.
[07:11.850 --> 07:21.010]  [SPEAKER_24]: In fact, fairly recently I was going over a particularly popular digest on USENET known as Telecom Digest, CompDcom Telecom.
[07:21.370 --> 07:27.850]  [SPEAKER_24]: And its own moderator, Pat Townsend, in reply to someone who was asking how to clone...
[07:27.850 --> 07:29.410]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, of course, they didn't use the words clone.
[07:29.410 --> 07:36.990]  [SPEAKER_24]: They used the term, how can I make a copy of my own cell phone just so I have a backup phone or just another unit or whatever.
[07:37.310 --> 07:42.110]  [SPEAKER_24]: And Pat went on to describe in detail how to do such a thing.
[07:42.110 --> 07:48.850]  [SPEAKER_24]: And, of course, he wasn't tracked down and accused of operating a phone scheme or anything like that.
[07:49.050 --> 07:52.490]  [SPEAKER_24]: I don't think it's anything particularly illegal to make a copy of a cell phone.
[07:52.650 --> 07:53.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: It shouldn't be.
[07:53.710 --> 07:58.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: I guess the phone companies, the cellular phone companies, want to be able to charge people the maximum amount.
[07:58.850 --> 08:03.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: So if you make a copy of your phone, well, you have to pay them as if you had another phone line.
[08:04.110 --> 08:04.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[08:04.930 --> 08:10.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's like the old days when people used to be scared if they had an extension without telling the phone company about it.
[08:10.350 --> 08:17.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's kind of weird how that mental process works.
[08:18.990 --> 08:20.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: Anyway, continuing the story.
[08:20.310 --> 08:30.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: When police encountered Cummings at the 7-Eleven on Eagle Road, he was preparing to sell one of those speed dialers and the crystals that are used to convert them, police alleged.
[08:31.270 --> 08:37.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: The second man who was not arrested had traveled from Florida to buy the device, according to a police affidavit.
[08:37.290 --> 08:43.770]  [SPEAKER_22]: Two days later, after speaking with a Secret Service agent about the legality of the devices, Haverford police arrested Cummings.
[08:44.010 --> 08:50.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: First of all, I don't know anybody that would travel all the way from Florida just to buy a Redbox or a cellular cloning device.
[08:50.450 --> 08:53.110]  [SPEAKER_22]: They're easy to make, easy to buy anywhere.
[08:53.670 --> 08:56.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: So that doesn't hold water somehow.
[08:57.370 --> 09:05.390]  [SPEAKER_22]: They said they found him repairing a personal computer in a home on the 100 block of North Concord Road in Marple Township.
[09:05.930 --> 09:18.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: When they searched him, police said they found a modified speed dialer in his wallet, which led to the second set of charges, which was illegal, or possession of devices for theft of telecommunications.
[09:19.330 --> 09:29.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think that would be, I don't know, has anyone ever been charged with possession of devices for theft of telecommunications just for having a modified Radio Shack dialer?
[09:29.690 --> 09:30.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: Have you heard of anything like that?
[09:30.950 --> 09:32.110]  [SPEAKER_24]: I don't know of anyone personally.
[09:32.110 --> 09:35.250]  [SPEAKER_24]: I don't know that that's illegal to possess one.
[09:37.510 --> 09:40.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, this is a case that's treading new ground, I can tell you that.
[09:40.610 --> 09:51.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: The Secret Service is still working with Haverford officers on the investigation, but Cummings has not been charged on the federal level, according to agent in charge, Ernie Cunn.
[09:51.550 --> 09:57.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: He is being held in Delaware County Prison on $100,000 bail.
[09:57.830 --> 09:59.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's the most incredible thing.
[09:59.770 --> 10:02.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: So he's currently in prison, $100,000 bail.
[10:04.410 --> 10:06.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, this is the interesting part.
[10:06.530 --> 10:14.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: This is where you see what the power of the press is, how they can totally screw somebody up and make someone seem like something they're not.
[10:15.010 --> 10:19.390]  [SPEAKER_22]: And I think those of us that have listened to the radio over the past couple of years and have heard from Bernie S.
[10:19.450 --> 10:25.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: and have went to Hope and talked to him and things like that, you realize what a distortion this is.
[10:25.530 --> 10:29.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: While searching the room where Cummings stayed in a home on Paner...
[10:29.350 --> 10:40.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: well, it doesn't matter what road it was, in Villanova on Thursday, police said they seized several hundred speed dialers, computer software, cellular phones, and thousands of computer chips and crystals.
[10:40.290 --> 10:41.130]  [SPEAKER_22]: Ooh.
[10:41.670 --> 10:48.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: They also found books describing computer crimes and hacking as well as literature related to bomb making.
[10:50.030 --> 10:51.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
[10:51.850 --> 10:56.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: Cummings apparently moved to Villanova after a falling out with a landlord in Brumall.
[10:56.970 --> 11:02.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: And then almost the whole rest of the article is devoted to the landlord saying how crazy this guy was.
[11:02.930 --> 11:03.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, keep in mind, this was...
[11:03.950 --> 11:05.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: and I've been to his house several times.
[11:05.590 --> 11:11.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: This is somebody that he got into a fight with, so of course the person is going to say bad things about him after he moves out.
[11:13.930 --> 11:19.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, he's talking about the various how-to books that he found that Bernie S had left behind.
[11:19.910 --> 11:26.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: He says, I got a whole pile of them that he left here, such as how to kill somebody slow with poison, how to get around the credit card system.
[11:27.930 --> 11:31.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: Two Christmases ago, he was boasting that he could tap into TWA and get a free ticket.
[11:31.910 --> 11:33.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: I said, what do you mean?
[11:33.250 --> 11:35.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, he went up to his computer and he was able to access TWA.
[11:37.190 --> 11:41.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: I will bet, I will bet anything that what he did was access the schedule.
[11:41.290 --> 11:44.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, Bernie S was not someone who even used computers that much.
[11:44.510 --> 11:46.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: He didn't even have Internet access.
[11:46.410 --> 11:51.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, I don't think this is somebody that would go to TWA and somehow card himself tickets.
[11:51.550 --> 11:52.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: It just doesn't make sense.
[11:52.390 --> 12:02.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: But they make the implication that he did because the next paragraph says, with that, Cummings was off to pick up his ticket to Morocco from Philadelphia International Airport and his landlord did not see him for the next two weeks.
[12:02.870 --> 12:04.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, that's...
[12:04.910 --> 12:07.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Anybody reading would think that this person was doing that.
[12:07.350 --> 12:09.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: And of course, that's not the kind of thing he did.
[12:09.390 --> 12:11.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Knowing him, I know that is true.
[12:11.790 --> 12:15.390]  [SPEAKER_22]: His landlord, though, continues, for a man who didn't work, he lived pretty good.
[12:16.230 --> 12:17.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: And of course, he did work.
[12:17.530 --> 12:22.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: He didn't have a nine-to-five type of a job, but he was a computer consultant.
[12:22.330 --> 12:24.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: And last I checked, computer consultants got paid.
[12:24.690 --> 12:25.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right?
[12:25.270 --> 12:25.610]  [SPEAKER_22]: Sure.
[12:25.750 --> 12:26.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: They do get paid.
[12:26.390 --> 12:27.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: They don't do this voluntarily.
[12:29.210 --> 12:31.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: Here's the most condemning piece of information, though.
[12:32.270 --> 12:38.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: His landlord said Cummings often locked himself in his room for long periods.
[12:39.190 --> 12:40.770]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, the guy's got to be a lunatic.
[12:40.930 --> 12:43.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, he locks himself in his room by himself.
[12:43.390 --> 12:44.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, who knows what he's doing?
[12:44.710 --> 12:45.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: He could be thinking.
[12:45.810 --> 12:47.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: He could be reading, writing.
[12:49.230 --> 12:50.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: He could be on the phone.
[12:50.530 --> 12:54.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, who knows what this guy is up to.
[12:54.350 --> 13:03.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: So that's the story that appeared in the Philadelphia Inquiry yesterday, pretty much destroying any chance that this guy will be thought of as a normal human being.
[13:07.270 --> 13:13.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: And this whole thing started looking at the search warrant, the affidavit of probable cause for a search warrant, actually.
[13:14.790 --> 13:22.130]  [SPEAKER_22]: According to the police officer, I observed a van backed in next to the 7-Eleven store with three black males and one black female occupants.
[13:22.930 --> 13:26.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: And I guess that was enough right there for them to launch an investigation.
[13:27.210 --> 13:33.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: Then they observed that a white male was talking with the occupants of the van and that a transaction of currency was taking place.
[13:34.550 --> 13:37.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: And it just goes on and on after that.
[13:37.810 --> 13:54.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, there's one part in here which I think is really interesting where they're talking about what a red box actually is and how there is no possible use for this kind of device.
[13:54.830 --> 13:55.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[13:57.110 --> 14:03.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's no use for, say, education or anything like that where you could say to somebody, hey, this is what a red box is.
[14:03.570 --> 14:04.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's what a red box sounds like.
[14:07.800 --> 14:08.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: Sort of.
[14:09.020 --> 14:10.660]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's rather sloppy if you ask me.
[14:11.900 --> 14:13.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: No legitimate use for that whatsoever.
[14:14.160 --> 14:19.600]  [SPEAKER_22]: These guys actually admit that they used it themselves.
[14:19.600 --> 14:23.520]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm trying to find the exact section here.
[14:27.450 --> 14:29.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: They actually went to a payphone.
[14:29.430 --> 14:29.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: Here we go.
[14:31.350 --> 14:35.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: Agent Varney went to a payphone and conducted a long-distance phone call.
[14:35.370 --> 14:42.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: The computer intercepted and a recording asked the policeman to deposit $2.60 for the call.
[14:42.470 --> 14:47.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: The policeman placed the modified speed dialer to the telephone receiver and pressed the button 11 times.
[14:48.010 --> 14:53.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: The computer message then stated that I had 15 cents credit towards the call and the call was placed.
[14:54.130 --> 14:56.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: At no time was any U.S.
[14:56.310 --> 14:59.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: currency placed into the telephone to complete this call.
[14:59.310 --> 15:00.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: These guys just admitted to a crime.
[15:00.750 --> 15:01.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: They just did it themselves.
[15:03.250 --> 15:05.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: Whereas, they have no evidence that Bernie S.
[15:05.850 --> 15:08.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: ever made a fraudulent phone call.
[15:08.310 --> 15:09.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: No evidence whatsoever.
[15:09.350 --> 15:11.130]  [SPEAKER_22]: And I doubt they will ever find such evidence.
[15:11.710 --> 15:15.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: What they have evidence of was that he had electronic parts in his hand.
[15:15.850 --> 15:22.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: He had the written explanation as to how it all worked and what it was all about.
[15:22.670 --> 15:24.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: And they don't understand any of that.
[15:24.590 --> 15:30.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: They think that the only reason anybody would have any kind of possession of that kind of material would be if they were planning something.
[15:31.030 --> 15:34.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: Or planning to commit fraud or rip people off.
[15:35.150 --> 15:35.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Things like that.
[15:36.590 --> 15:37.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: They have no understanding.
[15:37.890 --> 15:44.070]  [SPEAKER_22]: Unfortunately, their ignorance must be paid for by people like us.
[15:44.730 --> 15:46.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: And it's just sad to see this happen yet again.
[15:47.050 --> 15:48.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: Considering how Bernie S.
[15:48.570 --> 15:52.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: was so close to the case involving fiber optic.
[15:52.830 --> 15:55.650]  [SPEAKER_22]: How he was one of the people that took you to prison.
[15:55.750 --> 15:58.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Remember that whole weekend practically we spent down there?
[15:59.810 --> 16:03.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, who would ever think only a year or so later that something like this would be happening?
[16:04.570 --> 16:06.610]  [SPEAKER_22]: It just, you know, first Kevin Mitnick, now this.
[16:06.850 --> 16:08.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: It seems to be a stepping stone.
[16:08.510 --> 16:21.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, we've had about a couple of dozen people that have been raided, arrested, indicted, what have you, over the past month or so for quote-unquote cellular related things.
[16:21.390 --> 16:29.650]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, I'm not sure, you know, I don't know all these people but the people I do know, it seems to be something where they just have material.
[16:29.650 --> 16:41.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: They have either equipment or they have documentation that can be interpreted as being bad or potentially for evil purposes but mere knowledge is not a crime.
[16:42.370 --> 16:43.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Last I checked.
[16:45.950 --> 16:47.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, we'll have to see where that goes.
[16:48.250 --> 16:57.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: And of course, we'll keep people updated on the Bernie S situation as it develops or falls apart over the weeks ahead.
[16:59.070 --> 17:02.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, that's pretty much all the news updates we have now.
[17:02.630 --> 17:05.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: If people want to call in, I guess we can take phone calls, right?
[17:06.430 --> 17:08.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: 212-279-3400.
[17:08.830 --> 17:10.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: Is there anything else we have to talk about tonight?
[17:11.250 --> 17:11.610]  [SPEAKER_24]: ISDN.
[17:11.890 --> 17:12.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: ISDN.
[17:12.310 --> 17:12.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, right.
[17:12.690 --> 17:15.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: Of course, we're starting the ISDN project.
[17:15.830 --> 17:17.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, why don't you explain what that's all about?
[17:17.170 --> 17:27.710]  [SPEAKER_24]: Okay, well, what we did was that we both decided that we were going to order ISDN and it's only fairly recently been made available for the area that I live in.
[17:29.090 --> 17:42.430]  [SPEAKER_24]: So, at approximately the same time, we both called NYNEX's ISDN number, it's an 890 number, to order ISDN and we started today and we want to see how we both progress in parallel.
[17:44.430 --> 17:46.070]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, you called and I called.
[17:46.290 --> 17:48.310]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think you made out a little better than I did.
[17:48.430 --> 17:58.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: I actually called first but the people there didn't really seem to know what to do so they just took my name and number and said, well, have somebody get back to you by Friday.
[17:58.730 --> 17:59.050]  [SPEAKER_24]: Right.
[17:59.250 --> 18:01.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: And then you called and they said they'd get back to you by 4.30.
[18:01.770 --> 18:01.970]  [SPEAKER_24]: Right.
[18:02.150 --> 18:02.650]  [SPEAKER_24]: And they did.
[18:02.770 --> 18:12.690]  [SPEAKER_24]: Which they did long before 4.30 and they proceeded to set up a service order and they told me when someone would be down to install a line which incidentally it's a normal phone line.
[18:12.970 --> 18:25.470]  [SPEAKER_24]: They told me what the new telephone number would be initially and that a woman would get back to me before Friday to take down to explain ISDN to take down which ISDN services I wanted to configure my line to do.
[18:26.390 --> 18:29.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: And you see I haven't gotten the call back yet so I mean I'm still waiting.
[18:30.550 --> 18:35.250]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well first they told you you called the right number and then when you called back they told you that you called the wrong number.
[18:35.490 --> 18:35.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[18:35.870 --> 18:36.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[18:36.830 --> 18:37.390]  [SPEAKER_22]: What was it?
[18:37.870 --> 18:41.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm going to try that number right now and see if they have a recording after hours.
[18:41.330 --> 18:42.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Maybe that makes a difference.
[18:44.550 --> 18:46.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: These 890 numbers are really fun.
[18:46.650 --> 18:48.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'll call the one that's for this area first.
[18:50.270 --> 18:51.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: Let's see what they say after hours.
[18:52.750 --> 18:54.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Ah, they just leave the phone off the hook after hours.
[18:54.850 --> 18:55.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's very clever NYNEX.
[18:55.970 --> 18:56.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: Very clever.
[18:56.810 --> 19:01.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't think at 1030 at night they're taking ISDN orders seeing as how they can barely do it in the daytime.
[19:02.010 --> 19:03.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: Let's try the other number I called.
[19:07.800 --> 19:09.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: All right, that one rings.
[19:10.740 --> 19:12.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: You think there'll be a recording of some sort?
[19:13.840 --> 19:14.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'll find out.
[19:15.200 --> 19:16.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thank you for calling NYNEX.
[19:17.080 --> 19:23.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: To help us direct your call more quickly, listen to the instructions and receive the key on your telephone.
[19:23.120 --> 19:24.680]  [SPEAKER_22]: It takes you 10 minutes to figure out they're closed.
[19:26.440 --> 19:31.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: That will never come.
[19:32.040 --> 19:35.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: You're calling to place an order or check on the status of an order.
[19:35.520 --> 19:36.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Press 1.
[19:36.600 --> 19:39.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: For billing or account information press 2.
[19:39.900 --> 19:43.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you're having trouble with a phone press 3.
[19:44.280 --> 19:47.020]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think I could use some inflection work there.
[19:47.560 --> 19:50.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: Sorry, service representatives aren't available now.
[19:50.380 --> 19:51.660]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, thanks for throwing us in.
[19:51.680 --> 20:01.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Again, or call your service center at 8-9-0-2-5-5-0 between 8 a.m.
[20:01.440 --> 20:03.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: and 8 p.m.
[20:04.040 --> 20:05.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: Monday through Friday.
[20:05.100 --> 20:08.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: On Saturday, we are open between 8 a.m.
[20:09.360 --> 20:11.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: and 4 p.m.
[20:12.560 --> 20:14.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, the number slipped in there.
[20:14.580 --> 20:16.200]  [SPEAKER_22]: They actually repeat the number that you dial.
[20:17.040 --> 20:18.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: So that's, isn't that something?
[20:18.500 --> 20:23.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm going to try this caller ID thing one more time on a different line.
[20:25.220 --> 20:26.980]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's 8-9-0-1900.
[20:37.540 --> 20:40.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for calling the NYNEX Call Restrict Test Line.
[20:41.120 --> 20:48.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because you are calling from an area where call ID service is not yet available, your telephone number did not appear on our call ID equipment.
[20:48.840 --> 20:49.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: There you go.
[20:51.180 --> 20:54.560]  [SPEAKER_22]: So we do not apparently have the capability of caller ID here.
[20:54.680 --> 20:59.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: So that should pretty much dispel any rumors that we take everyone's number when they call in.
[20:59.740 --> 21:00.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: There it is.
[21:00.540 --> 21:03.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: People seem to think that we do this, but we don't.
[21:03.340 --> 21:04.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: And even if we could do it, we wouldn't.
[21:06.380 --> 21:11.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: And even if we wanted to do it, we probably don't have the staff to properly manage it.
[21:12.260 --> 21:16.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: And we'd wind up losing all the records anyway, so it's kind of pointless.
[21:18.200 --> 21:19.000]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's not a joke.
[21:19.140 --> 21:19.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's true.
[21:20.760 --> 21:22.040]  [SPEAKER_22]: 212-279-3400.
[21:22.140 --> 21:22.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: Let's take some phone calls.
[21:23.180 --> 21:23.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[21:23.600 --> 21:23.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on the radio.
[21:24.220 --> 21:25.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, good evening, Emmanuel.
[21:25.460 --> 21:25.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: How are you?
[21:26.160 --> 21:26.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[21:26.760 --> 21:35.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: You were talking about Mr. S's landlord telling the papers that he was very odd because he would lock himself in his room for long periods of time.
[21:35.400 --> 21:41.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was ringing a bell with, I remember watching some of those Are Your Kids on Drugs films from the 60s.
[21:41.540 --> 21:45.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Number one on the checklist is lack of interest in sports.
[21:45.020 --> 21:45.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, yeah.
[21:46.380 --> 21:48.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: The same type of field of that, that same type of...
[21:48.960 --> 21:53.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, we all know how far removed professional sports is from abusive drugs, don't we?
[21:53.600 --> 21:54.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right, that's right.
[21:54.580 --> 21:58.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: They act like they caught them with locksmith tools or something, like burglar tools.
[21:58.620 --> 21:58.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh-huh.
[21:59.120 --> 21:59.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's ridiculous.
[22:00.620 --> 22:02.840]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, as far as they're concerned, they're one and the same.
[22:03.960 --> 22:10.820]  [SPEAKER_22]: Printed material or software, anything like that, chips, crystals, it's all burglary tools to them.
[22:11.120 --> 22:18.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he had a book, How to Murder Someone Slowly with Poison, maybe he was writing a novel about someone getting murdered and wanted to have the exact info.
[22:19.100 --> 22:19.800]  [SPEAKER_22]: Anything's possible.
[22:19.960 --> 22:25.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's really not up to us to theorize as to why somebody takes out a particular book or has a particular book.
[22:25.840 --> 22:36.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: The fact of the matter is, sometimes it's just for the sake of reading something that's a bit risque or that people might think is evil, but you can't condemn somebody just because they have something like that.
[22:36.380 --> 22:38.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: You have to condemn someone based on their actions.
[22:38.620 --> 22:41.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, what actions are we talking about in this particular case?
[22:41.160 --> 22:42.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: I see none.
[22:42.520 --> 22:44.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it looks like they've already tried them in the media.
[22:45.200 --> 22:45.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's right.
[22:45.840 --> 22:46.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: Absolutely.
[22:46.840 --> 22:53.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's just a damn shame that somebody that we know whose capability is pretty incredible to start with.
[22:54.060 --> 22:55.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: How many times have we seen this?
[22:55.280 --> 22:56.200]  [SPEAKER_22]: Keep up the good work there.
[22:56.320 --> 22:56.560]  [SPEAKER_22]: All right.
[22:56.640 --> 22:57.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thanks for calling.
[22:57.260 --> 22:57.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: Take care.
[22:59.180 --> 22:59.580]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[23:00.020 --> 23:02.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's something we keep seeing over and over again.
[23:02.200 --> 23:03.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: It just never seems to end.
[23:04.480 --> 23:05.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[23:05.220 --> 23:06.380]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on Off the Hook.
[23:06.760 --> 23:07.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, what's up?
[23:07.760 --> 23:08.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[23:08.380 --> 23:12.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: This appeared in Cyber Wire Dispatch a couple of days ago, I think it was.
[23:12.480 --> 23:13.560]  [SPEAKER_22]: The Brock Meeks publication?
[23:13.880 --> 23:14.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[23:14.400 --> 23:14.600]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[23:14.740 --> 23:15.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: What was that?
[23:15.660 --> 23:16.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's an interesting number.
[23:17.120 --> 23:19.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: 1-800-WOW-IT'S-HOT.
[23:19.240 --> 23:20.000]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, not that again.
[23:20.040 --> 23:21.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think they disconnected that.
[23:21.940 --> 23:23.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I tried that about 10 minutes ago.
[23:23.700 --> 23:24.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It works fine.
[23:24.380 --> 23:25.020]  [SPEAKER_22]: Is it back?
[23:25.020 --> 23:26.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: It basically plays you the sounds of summer.
[23:27.420 --> 23:27.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[23:28.300 --> 23:28.580]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[23:28.680 --> 23:29.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: We had that about a year ago.
[23:30.060 --> 23:30.680]  [SPEAKER_22]: We played with that.
[23:31.160 --> 23:31.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah?
[23:31.700 --> 23:31.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[23:32.140 --> 23:34.420]  [SPEAKER_22]: We can call it again and see if the sounds of summer have changed.
[23:34.820 --> 23:35.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: What?
[23:35.220 --> 23:36.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: They have like a ball game?
[23:36.420 --> 23:39.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: They have a babbling creek somewhere?
[23:39.840 --> 23:41.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, a guy playing golf.
[23:41.240 --> 23:42.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: Guy playing golf?
[23:42.240 --> 23:42.360]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[23:42.580 --> 23:43.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they got a lot of shit.
[23:43.780 --> 23:45.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: Do they still have the belching noise at the end?
[23:45.440 --> 23:45.660]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[23:46.140 --> 23:48.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: When you play golf, do you still get the belching noise at the very end?
[23:49.000 --> 23:49.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[23:49.740 --> 23:50.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't stick around very long.
[23:51.080 --> 23:52.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, we'll check that out.
[23:52.300 --> 23:52.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, thanks a lot.
[23:53.040 --> 23:53.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: All right, take care.
[23:54.700 --> 23:56.520]  [SPEAKER_22]: All right, let's check into that right now.
[23:56.940 --> 23:57.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: 1-800...
[23:59.260 --> 23:59.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: Wow.
[24:01.420 --> 24:01.860]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's...
[24:02.900 --> 24:03.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: hot.
[24:04.360 --> 24:05.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: A couple extra digits there.
[24:11.880 --> 24:19.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: Welcome to the MCI Wow It's Hot Hotline, the newest fun way to stay warm during the cold days of winter.
[24:19.880 --> 24:20.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, it's not new.
[24:20.920 --> 24:29.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: MCI Wow It's Hot Hotline lets you hear any of nine fun warming sounds to help you warm up absolutely free.
[24:29.420 --> 24:34.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: All you need is a Touch-Tone phone and you can hear as many sounds as you'd like as many times as you want.
[24:35.020 --> 24:35.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: MCI is great.
[24:36.040 --> 24:38.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just by pressing the number of the sound you want to hear.
[24:38.200 --> 24:38.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: What a terrific service.
[24:39.160 --> 24:42.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thanks for calling the MCI Wow It's Hot Hotline.
[24:42.520 --> 24:45.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: To hear people playing golf, press 1.
[24:45.400 --> 24:47.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: To hear a baseball game, press 2.
[24:48.280 --> 24:50.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: To hear seagulls, press 3.
[24:50.840 --> 24:53.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: To hear someone water skiing, press 4.
[24:54.200 --> 24:56.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: To hear tropical birds, press 5.
[24:57.260 --> 25:00.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: An evening tropical stream is on 6.
[25:00.800 --> 25:02.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: To hear a carousel, press 7.
[25:03.360 --> 25:05.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: Children at the beach, press 8.
[25:06.040 --> 25:09.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: And to hear a baseball stadium vendor, press 9.
[25:09.720 --> 25:11.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, we'll go for the golf game?
[25:11.240 --> 25:11.520]  [SPEAKER_22]: Sure.
[25:12.040 --> 25:12.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh.
[25:14.000 --> 25:15.520]  [SPEAKER_22]: Very fast response.
[25:17.980 --> 25:20.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: All right, listen for the belching noise at the end.
[25:47.580 --> 25:49.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, that hasn't changed, has it?
[25:49.640 --> 25:50.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: All, press 1.
[25:51.140 --> 25:52.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: To hear a baseball game.
[25:52.260 --> 25:52.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[25:52.580 --> 25:53.500]  [SPEAKER_22]: You want to hear a baseball game?
[25:53.580 --> 25:54.360]  [SPEAKER_22]: A whole baseball game?
[25:54.460 --> 25:56.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's going to be about two hours listening to this one.
[26:01.570 --> 26:03.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: And the best thing about it is you can skip ahead.
[26:04.150 --> 26:04.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: You sick of that?
[26:04.930 --> 26:06.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: Let's go straight to the stadium vendor.
[26:12.630 --> 26:13.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: Tropical birds?
[26:15.510 --> 26:18.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can stay on all night, just going from one sound to another.
[26:24.910 --> 26:25.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: Seagulls?
[26:29.390 --> 26:30.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: Somebody water skiing.
[26:35.750 --> 26:37.610]  [SPEAKER_22]: Why is MCI offering this?
[26:37.750 --> 26:40.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: Does anybody know what's going on here?
[26:40.410 --> 26:40.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's crazy.
[26:41.070 --> 26:44.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, I asked this last year and it didn't make any sense then.
[26:44.150 --> 26:45.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: It makes less sense now.
[26:45.350 --> 26:49.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: They're just offering this wow, it's hot business and nobody knows why.
[26:50.410 --> 26:57.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: Maybe you get phone calls from some travel agency saying, well, this person must like summer so we're going to try and send them to a tropical place someplace.
[26:57.730 --> 27:01.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: But whatever, it's got nothing to do with long distance telephones, does it?
[27:01.930 --> 27:02.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know.
[27:02.510 --> 27:05.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you call MCI and you ask them about this, they know nothing about it.
[27:06.690 --> 27:13.830]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, I guess it's their own little ISDN type of thing because NYNEX knows nothing about that and MCI knows nothing about this.
[27:14.350 --> 27:15.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: Let's take another phone call.
[27:15.170 --> 27:15.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[27:15.550 --> 27:15.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on the radio.
[27:16.310 --> 27:17.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: You hear seagulls.
[27:17.430 --> 27:18.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: Press 3.
[27:19.250 --> 27:20.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Someone water skiing?
[27:20.270 --> 27:21.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[27:21.270 --> 27:21.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: That was still on.
[27:22.330 --> 27:22.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[27:22.610 --> 27:23.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: Sorry about that.
[27:23.590 --> 27:24.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I see.
[27:24.290 --> 27:25.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: They didn't hang up, apparently.
[27:26.330 --> 27:26.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Very good.
[27:27.150 --> 27:32.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Look, I just want to tell you something that I discovered in New Jersey, in Burton County.
[27:32.710 --> 27:38.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you dial 2-1-1, there's some sort of a service that's being implemented.
[27:38.850 --> 27:39.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yes, I heard about that.
[27:39.910 --> 27:43.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bell Atlantic has some sort of a newspaper thing now.
[27:43.090 --> 27:43.390]  [SPEAKER_22]: Is that right?
[27:43.390 --> 27:45.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you can hook up with...
[27:45.470 --> 27:47.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently, there's four or five things on the menu.
[27:47.250 --> 27:48.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think they all work yet.
[27:49.110 --> 28:01.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: But one that does work is the record newspaper, which has a number of things like a stock quote hotline and one of these, you know, polls where they publish something in the paper.
[28:02.470 --> 28:03.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think?
[28:03.230 --> 28:04.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: A pooper, scooper, laws, whatever.
[28:04.790 --> 28:07.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then everybody dials in and presses one for yes and two for no.
[28:07.730 --> 28:09.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they publish the results.
[28:09.510 --> 28:10.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Highly scientific polls.
[28:10.890 --> 28:12.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, does 2-1-1-1 cost anything?
[28:12.710 --> 28:13.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't seem to.
[28:14.010 --> 28:18.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: I tried it a couple of months ago and nothing showed up on the bill.
[28:19.270 --> 28:19.770]  [SPEAKER_22]: How about that?
[28:19.810 --> 28:21.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: But there's no way to access that from New York, is there?
[28:22.010 --> 28:23.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not that I know of.
[28:23.410 --> 28:36.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Although, it's a number that when you push like two for the record newspaper, it's the same service that they already offer through a regular POTS line that you can just call in for your local call.
[28:37.290 --> 28:37.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: I see.
[28:38.090 --> 28:42.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, if anyone from New Jersey is listening and they have access to a second dial tone, maybe we can play with this on the radio.
[28:43.170 --> 28:44.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was going to...
[28:44.610 --> 28:50.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: If I was out in the car, I was going to tape it for you and maybe play it into the phone, but I didn't get home in time.
[28:50.610 --> 28:51.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe next week.
[28:51.390 --> 28:52.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: Maybe next week.
[28:52.190 --> 28:54.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: Or maybe this week somebody will have access to that.
[28:54.410 --> 28:54.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Very good.
[28:54.910 --> 28:55.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thanks for letting us know.
[28:55.590 --> 28:56.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: Take care.
[28:56.770 --> 28:56.870]  Take care.
[28:57.270 --> 29:06.630]  [SPEAKER_24]: I heard about, along the same line since we're on the topic of Bell Atlantic, I heard about a just recently offered Bell Atlantic service, brand new, that it's not...
[29:06.630 --> 29:11.010]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's like call answering, only it's not call answering, whereby...
[29:11.010 --> 29:12.010]  [SPEAKER_24]: But I'm confused.
[29:12.290 --> 29:12.610]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[29:12.610 --> 29:14.550]  [SPEAKER_24]: If it's like call answering, what else could it be?
[29:14.810 --> 29:17.890]  [SPEAKER_24]: Oh, well, the thing is that it's voicemail, but it's true voicemail.
[29:18.070 --> 29:18.890]  [SPEAKER_24]: True voicemail?
[29:18.970 --> 29:19.110]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[29:19.130 --> 29:19.290]  [SPEAKER_24]: To tell.
[29:19.530 --> 29:22.890]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's not something that only works if you don't answer the phone.
[29:23.650 --> 29:26.470]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's an actual full city-wide voicemail system.
[29:26.530 --> 29:27.970]  [SPEAKER_24]: I believe they're calling it T-Mail.
[29:28.370 --> 29:29.210]  [SPEAKER_24]: T-Mail?
[29:29.390 --> 29:36.330]  [SPEAKER_24]: And what it does is that it allows you to send voicemail messages to anyone, anywhere, without ringing their phone or anything like that.
[29:36.450 --> 29:37.050]  [SPEAKER_24]: At any time?
[29:37.130 --> 29:37.830]  [SPEAKER_24]: At any time.
[29:38.130 --> 29:38.530]  [SPEAKER_24]: Wow.
[29:39.330 --> 29:41.190]  [SPEAKER_24]: And the way that the person is alerted that they have...
[29:41.190 --> 29:43.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: You mean just like regular voicemail that other people have been using for centuries?
[29:43.990 --> 29:44.110]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[29:44.570 --> 29:50.610]  [SPEAKER_24]: The way that you tell that you have a voicemail message is that you just pick up your telephone and like call answering, you get a stutter dial tone.
[29:50.710 --> 29:51.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right, a stutter dial tone.
[29:51.510 --> 29:51.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[29:52.670 --> 29:53.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: So now, what's the difference?
[29:54.090 --> 29:55.190]  [SPEAKER_24]: Is that it...
[29:55.190 --> 30:00.090]  [SPEAKER_24]: Like, the thing, the reason for call answering is that you can get messages if you don't answer the phone.
[30:00.330 --> 30:00.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: Mm-hmm.
[30:01.110 --> 30:05.610]  [SPEAKER_24]: T-Mail works where you could send someone a message whenever you want to without ringing their phone.
[30:05.630 --> 30:08.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, you can do that with regular call answering as well.
[30:08.090 --> 30:11.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you call the regular number and enter their phone number, it doesn't ring their phone and you can leave them a message.
[30:12.130 --> 30:12.750]  [SPEAKER_24]: That's true.
[30:13.050 --> 30:13.210]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[30:13.790 --> 30:15.150]  [SPEAKER_24]: So what's the purpose of this thing?
[30:15.170 --> 30:15.770]  [SPEAKER_24]: I don't know.
[30:15.950 --> 30:17.030]  [SPEAKER_24]: I don't know either.
[30:17.210 --> 30:20.050]  [SPEAKER_24]: You know, I was reading about it and I said...
[30:20.050 --> 30:20.430]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's marketing.
[30:20.610 --> 30:23.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: I guess they're trying to find a new way to charge more or something like that.
[30:24.070 --> 30:26.810]  [SPEAKER_24]: I think maybe, possibly, I think everyone is supposed to have it.
[30:27.010 --> 30:27.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: Mm-hmm.
[30:27.390 --> 30:28.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, you mean you get it no matter what?
[30:28.550 --> 30:32.710]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, I think you get it no matter what and they charge you something like a quarter every time you send someone a message.
[30:32.930 --> 30:33.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, that's just great.
[30:33.910 --> 30:36.110]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now they're going to charge every time you send a message to somebody?
[30:36.750 --> 30:38.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Leave it to the phone companies to figure out how to do that.
[30:38.950 --> 30:42.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Pretty soon, they'll be offering Internet access and charging us for every message we send there.
[30:42.270 --> 30:43.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's free to read them, though.
[30:43.550 --> 30:44.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, how nice of them.
[30:44.870 --> 30:45.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: How sporting.
[30:47.070 --> 30:52.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Do you think there's any way for us to call that 211 service directly if we do 10NJB in front of the number?
[30:52.250 --> 30:53.430]  [SPEAKER_24]: I don't think it's going to go through, no.
[30:53.790 --> 30:53.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: No?
[30:54.550 --> 31:00.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: What if we do 10NJB area code 211XXXX to fill out the last four digits?
[31:01.090 --> 31:01.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're free to try.
[31:01.630 --> 31:02.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't think you're going to get very far.
[31:02.870 --> 31:03.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: You don't think it's going to work?
[31:03.610 --> 31:03.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: No.
[31:04.530 --> 31:05.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, well, first I have to get a line here.
[31:08.590 --> 31:10.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: And we'll try dialing out.
[31:15.320 --> 31:15.680]  [SPEAKER_22]: 10NJB.
[31:17.170 --> 31:18.240]  [SPEAKER_24]: Actually, you're doing it backwards.
[31:18.820 --> 31:21.200]  [SPEAKER_24]: We do 698 to call New Jersey.
[31:21.820 --> 31:23.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, we'll try that afterwards.
[31:23.320 --> 31:23.740]  [SPEAKER_24]: Okay.
[31:24.640 --> 31:25.740]  [SPEAKER_24]: NJB is New Jersey Bell.
[31:25.920 --> 31:27.520]  [SPEAKER_24]: No, NJB is for them to call us.
[31:29.200 --> 31:30.660]  [SPEAKER_24]: We can't call them using...
[31:30.660 --> 31:32.120]  [SPEAKER_24]: No, we don't have NJB.
[31:32.400 --> 31:32.840]  [SPEAKER_24]: Uh-oh.
[31:33.340 --> 31:33.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're sorry.
[31:34.220 --> 31:36.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[31:36.660 --> 31:38.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Please check the number and dial again.
[31:38.720 --> 31:39.180]  [SPEAKER_22]: I guess you're right.
[31:39.340 --> 31:40.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's kind of backwards.
[31:40.500 --> 31:42.680]  [SPEAKER_22]: So I'll try 10NYT.
[31:42.740 --> 31:44.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, we use 10NYT to call New Jersey.
[31:44.620 --> 31:47.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's funny how NYT and NJB don't exist anymore anyway.
[31:48.560 --> 31:48.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[31:56.130 --> 31:57.070]  [SPEAKER_22]: See if that works.
[31:59.550 --> 32:00.830]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think I confused it.
[32:03.830 --> 32:04.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: Whoa.
[32:04.830 --> 32:05.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're sorry.
[32:05.670 --> 32:07.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[32:07.890 --> 32:09.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: Please check the number and dial again.
[32:09.570 --> 32:10.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: Same exact recording.
[32:10.190 --> 32:11.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: Call your operator to help you.
[32:11.510 --> 32:12.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: 1-3-2-A-2.
[32:13.810 --> 32:14.610]  [SPEAKER_22]: NYNEX recording.
[32:14.770 --> 32:14.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[32:15.550 --> 32:18.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, I guess it's just not possible for us to do that at this time.
[32:19.390 --> 32:19.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[32:20.110 --> 32:20.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on the radio.
[32:21.570 --> 32:21.730]  Oh?
[32:21.910 --> 32:22.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: Go ahead.
[32:22.550 --> 32:22.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, okay.
[32:23.530 --> 32:26.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've been waiting for a couple weeks to ask this question.
[32:27.390 --> 32:34.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: When I was playing around dialing some of the 1-1 numbers like 9-1-1 and those...
[32:34.950 --> 32:35.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[32:35.970 --> 32:37.610]  [SPEAKER_22]: You mean you were scanning 9-1-1?
[32:37.830 --> 32:39.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, not 9-1-1, but...
[32:39.350 --> 32:40.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: Leave that one out.
[32:40.450 --> 32:40.830]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, okay.
[32:40.890 --> 32:44.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: But you were scanning basically 2-1-1, 3-1-1.
[32:44.370 --> 32:45.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, all except for 0-1-1.
[32:45.610 --> 32:46.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: Must have taken you a long time.
[32:47.150 --> 32:48.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, real long.
[32:49.590 --> 32:53.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I came across 3-1-1 and...
[32:53.170 --> 32:54.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: You heard teletype noise.
[32:54.790 --> 32:54.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[32:55.230 --> 32:55.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[32:55.750 --> 32:58.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's New York State Police for...
[32:58.190 --> 32:59.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's a service for deaf people.
[33:00.170 --> 33:01.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that's what it is.
[33:01.090 --> 33:01.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's what it is, yeah.
[33:02.130 --> 33:04.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, I was just kind of wondering and I figured you guys would probably know.
[33:04.810 --> 33:08.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, we scanned that one out a while ago and that's when you get back on a TTO.
[33:08.430 --> 33:09.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know who told us about that?
[33:09.810 --> 33:12.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bernie S was the person that was experimenting on the radio with us.
[33:12.690 --> 33:13.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, that's cool.
[33:13.250 --> 33:13.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: And we were...
[33:13.850 --> 33:16.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: I suppose that'll be brought up in charge as he was pranking the police or something.
[33:16.530 --> 33:25.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: But basically, we heard a teletype noise and we wanted to find out what it was so we hooked a TDD device up to it and read what it said and it said New York State Police.
[33:25.710 --> 33:26.130]  Oh, okay.
[33:26.270 --> 33:28.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: And you know, we never bothered them again after that.
[33:28.530 --> 33:34.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I was thinking of doing something like that with a RTTY, you know, like ham radio teletype.
[33:35.010 --> 33:35.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh-huh.
[33:35.490 --> 33:36.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I didn't have one available.
[33:37.290 --> 33:38.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, thanks guys.
[33:38.270 --> 33:39.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[33:40.030 --> 33:43.310]  [SPEAKER_22]: We're going to actually try that now and see if it's still connected.
[33:43.310 --> 33:45.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know if it was really working from here all that reliably.
[33:52.840 --> 33:53.540]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yep, there it is.
[33:53.640 --> 33:53.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: There it is.
[33:56.220 --> 33:59.000]  [SPEAKER_22]: Of course, we've now called the police live on the radio.
[34:01.240 --> 34:01.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: Never mind.
[34:02.200 --> 34:02.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thank you.
[34:04.040 --> 34:04.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: But that's...
[34:04.760 --> 34:06.660]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't quite know how that's supposed to work.
[34:06.800 --> 34:10.120]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, what are the odds of a deaf person who's going to need the state police all of a sudden?
[34:10.760 --> 34:12.840]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, I've never needed the state police.
[34:12.960 --> 34:13.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: Not once, ever.
[34:14.320 --> 34:17.300]  [SPEAKER_22]: How do you know if you need the state police or the local police?
[34:18.300 --> 34:19.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: Does it make a difference?
[34:19.060 --> 34:19.860]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't think...
[34:19.860 --> 34:20.480]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know.
[34:20.840 --> 34:28.520]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, the state police sometimes have needed to talk to me about various things such as, you know, the speed at which I was traveling and things like that.
[34:28.620 --> 34:29.560]  [SPEAKER_22]: But I don't know.
[34:30.280 --> 34:30.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[34:31.060 --> 34:31.380]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on the radio.
[34:31.680 --> 34:31.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[34:32.060 --> 34:33.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: My name is Kathy.
[34:33.440 --> 34:35.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm interested in the iPhone thing.
[34:35.660 --> 34:37.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a totally blind computer user.
[34:37.940 --> 34:42.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that technology ever going to be accessible to people that use speech?
[34:42.920 --> 34:46.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And will you be able to bypass the icons?
[34:46.600 --> 34:47.640]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think it will be.
[34:47.780 --> 34:53.580]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think it will be fairly soon depending on how many people take an active interest in it.
[34:53.680 --> 34:54.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: And I think it's a very good question.
[34:54.840 --> 34:56.840]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's something that we need to see.
[34:56.940 --> 34:58.480]  [SPEAKER_22]: iPhone is something we demonstrated last week.
[34:58.540 --> 35:00.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: Hopefully we'll be demonstrating it again fairly soon.
[35:00.320 --> 35:08.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to ask your guest last week about it and I didn't get a chance because I'm interested in learning how to use the Internet and I wanted to get back in touch with him if that was possible.
[35:08.160 --> 35:08.580]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh-huh.
[35:09.780 --> 35:11.800]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, you can contact...
[35:11.800 --> 35:12.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think you're talking about Roman.
[35:12.900 --> 35:13.940]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can contact him at Escape.
[35:14.200 --> 35:19.480]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'll give you their phone number and maybe he can ask some questions about that because I know they're experimenting with that service too.
[35:19.680 --> 35:19.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[35:20.180 --> 35:22.980]  [SPEAKER_22]: And that's 212-888-8780.
[35:23.240 --> 35:23.500]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[35:23.960 --> 35:25.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: So you can try reaching him there.
[35:25.380 --> 35:39.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: But iPhone is the program that allows you to talk to people, actually talk, hear their voices over your computer without using a telephone except, of course, as you would be connected to the net, you need to make some sort of a telephone connection there.
[35:39.500 --> 35:46.240]  [SPEAKER_22]: But once you do that, you're able to talk to as many people as you want from around the world and they all come through your computer speaker and you speak into a microphone.
[35:46.660 --> 35:48.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's kind of in its infancy right now.
[35:48.920 --> 35:49.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: There are some delays.
[35:49.720 --> 35:51.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's a little hard to understand some people.
[35:51.560 --> 35:52.640]  [SPEAKER_22]: So it's a bit confusing.
[35:53.120 --> 35:54.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: But it's a start.
[35:54.360 --> 35:59.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's the first time ever that we've had the ability to completely bypass the phone company when we speak to somebody.
[36:00.460 --> 36:03.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: And it's great promise for the future.
[36:03.700 --> 36:05.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: Hopefully, it will remain cheap.
[36:05.340 --> 36:11.120]  [SPEAKER_22]: It will remain easy for people to use and will become more geared towards those people that don't have access in other ways.
[36:11.480 --> 36:12.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thank you very much.
[36:12.580 --> 36:13.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, take care.
[36:13.460 --> 36:13.720]  Bye-bye.
[36:14.260 --> 36:16.040]  [SPEAKER_22]: And hopefully, we'll hear more about that in the future.
[36:16.720 --> 36:17.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[36:17.400 --> 36:17.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on the radio.
[36:18.280 --> 36:19.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello, Emmanuel.
[36:19.620 --> 36:27.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: I would like to know the 1-800 number to use in order to get the results as you would a 978 in New York.
[36:27.780 --> 36:28.660]  [SPEAKER_22]: You mean 958?
[36:29.780 --> 36:30.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello?
[36:30.480 --> 36:31.680]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
[36:32.080 --> 36:35.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: What is the telephone number that you're using if you're not in New York State?
[36:36.620 --> 36:39.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a 1-800 number that you mentioned once.
[36:39.520 --> 36:40.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: I didn't get the whole number.
[36:41.020 --> 36:42.120]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's a number to do what?
[36:43.040 --> 36:44.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: To find out the telephone number.
[36:44.860 --> 36:45.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, yeah.
[36:45.460 --> 36:46.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're referring...
[36:46.140 --> 36:47.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, you said 978.
[36:47.100 --> 36:49.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: You mean 958, which is the ANAC recording.
[36:50.080 --> 36:50.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[36:50.660 --> 36:51.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, you can call...
[36:51.740 --> 36:53.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's 1-800 number that I know.
[36:53.580 --> 37:00.680]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's probably several, but the one I'm most familiar with and the hacker world is most familiar with is 1-800-MY-AN-I-IS.
[37:01.840 --> 37:04.120]  [SPEAKER_22]: And basically, you just spell out those letters on your phone.
[37:04.820 --> 37:07.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: A-N-I is spelled A-N-I, obviously.
[37:08.420 --> 37:09.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: I actually said that without thinking.
[37:11.400 --> 37:17.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: A-N-I stands for Automatic Number Identification, so if you dial that number, that should give you back the phone number you're calling from.
[37:17.900 --> 37:18.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thank you.
[37:18.460 --> 37:19.040]  [SPEAKER_22]: All right, take care.
[37:19.200 --> 37:19.340]  Bye.
[37:20.320 --> 37:21.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: Of course, it keeps repeating, too.
[37:22.080 --> 37:22.320]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[37:22.860 --> 37:23.820]  [SPEAKER_22]: Mercilessly, without stopping.
[37:25.100 --> 37:25.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[37:25.780 --> 37:26.040]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on.
[37:26.260 --> 37:26.800]  [SPEAKER_26]: Hi, good evening.
[37:26.800 --> 37:29.800]  [SPEAKER_26]: You tried that 890-1900 number a couple of minutes ago?
[37:30.120 --> 37:36.300]  [SPEAKER_26]: Well, I can tell you that the announcement they gave you is apparently wrong because B-A-I's number comes in on my caller ID box.
[37:36.300 --> 37:39.600]  [SPEAKER_26]: I live on the east side of town and I tried it as you were trying.
[37:39.720 --> 37:45.620]  [SPEAKER_26]: And mine, I got the same announcement saying my number was not being transmitted, so it's wrong, whatever it is.
[37:45.740 --> 37:48.640]  [SPEAKER_22]: Wait, you're saying B-A-I's number, does B-A-I call you?
[37:49.060 --> 37:54.700]  [SPEAKER_26]: Well, people have called me from the station and it comes in on my box down to all the different extensions, et cetera, or most of the extensions.
[37:54.820 --> 37:55.560]  [SPEAKER_26]: I don't know them all.
[37:55.560 --> 37:56.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[37:56.340 --> 38:00.040]  [SPEAKER_26]: And I see them all the time at 341, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the time.
[38:00.060 --> 38:02.220]  [SPEAKER_26]: And I got the same announcement as you were calling.
[38:02.300 --> 38:03.520]  [SPEAKER_26]: I was trying it at the same time.
[38:03.680 --> 38:04.460]  [SPEAKER_26]: So they're wrong.
[38:05.460 --> 38:09.540]  [SPEAKER_26]: And they were saying caller ID is not in your area, so your number is not being transmitted.
[38:09.880 --> 38:18.980]  [SPEAKER_26]: I would assume that if caller ID is in your area, you could have the capability of both getting it from other areas that have it or it's being transmitted unless you tell them otherwise.
[38:19.820 --> 38:20.820]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know, you're right, actually.
[38:20.960 --> 38:27.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now that I think about it, when I had caller ID, which was about a year ago, I was getting calls Some people at WBAI and their number would show up.
[38:27.140 --> 38:28.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: It was not in this bank.
[38:28.220 --> 38:29.200]  [SPEAKER_22]: It was in the office bank.
[38:30.200 --> 38:31.040]  [SPEAKER_26]: So they're wrong.
[38:31.140 --> 38:32.040]  [SPEAKER_26]: Maybe we can look into this.
[38:32.720 --> 38:33.220]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, I will.
[38:33.460 --> 38:34.540]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know what else I'm going to do?
[38:34.640 --> 38:36.180]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm doing this right now as I'm talking to you.
[38:36.440 --> 38:43.000]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm using the office extensions of the telephone, which might be different than the studio extension.
[38:43.120 --> 38:43.800]  [SPEAKER_26]: That is possible.
[38:43.980 --> 38:46.300]  [SPEAKER_26]: But I know some, if not all of them, do show up.
[38:46.440 --> 38:47.580]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, right now I am listening.
[38:47.740 --> 38:49.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm going to see if there's a certain recording here.
[38:49.700 --> 38:52.360]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, she's speaking to me as I'm speaking to you.
[38:53.160 --> 38:56.760]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now she's saying the same thing, because caller ID service is not yet available.
[38:56.840 --> 38:57.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: She's wrong.
[38:57.280 --> 38:58.040]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're absolutely right.
[38:58.120 --> 38:58.440]  [SPEAKER_26]: She is wrong.
[38:58.440 --> 39:00.800]  [SPEAKER_26]: I hope they don't bring 2-1-1 into Manhattan.
[39:00.960 --> 39:03.000]  [SPEAKER_26]: That will eliminate us being able to call for a refund.
[39:03.660 --> 39:05.520]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know what they do over in Bell Atlantic land.
[39:05.660 --> 39:06.480]  [SPEAKER_22]: How do they get credit?
[39:07.660 --> 39:09.880]  [SPEAKER_26]: That demonstration last week was most impressive.
[39:10.140 --> 39:12.220]  [SPEAKER_26]: And I just wanted to know a quick question.
[39:12.520 --> 39:16.600]  [SPEAKER_26]: Do you need a Pentium processor, or could it be something less tech than that to do that?
[39:16.720 --> 39:18.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: No, it works on any PC.
[39:18.320 --> 39:19.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: What you do need is slip access.
[39:19.720 --> 39:23.800]  [SPEAKER_22]: You need more of a dedicated type access to the net.
[39:23.940 --> 39:25.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can't just call in with a shell account.
[39:25.980 --> 39:29.800]  [SPEAKER_22]: But, you know, that's probably the most popular way of getting access these days, is to get slip.
[39:29.800 --> 39:38.220]  [SPEAKER_26]: And if you wanted to have a true duplex conversation, I guess if you had two whole units dedicated in tandem at each end, that could be done?
[39:38.460 --> 39:41.040]  [SPEAKER_24]: No, well, they do have some full duplex programs.
[39:41.240 --> 39:43.040]  [SPEAKER_24]: They're just... the quality of them isn't all very good.
[39:43.220 --> 39:43.920]  [SPEAKER_26]: Well, it's to come.
[39:44.120 --> 39:45.000]  [SPEAKER_26]: Okay, thank you.
[39:45.160 --> 39:45.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thanks for calling.
[39:45.820 --> 39:46.040]  [SPEAKER_26]: Bye-bye.
[39:46.660 --> 39:51.580]  [SPEAKER_22]: Maybe you can explain a little better than me as far as what slip is, as compared to regular access.
[39:51.640 --> 39:59.060]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, slip or PPP access, basically, your computer, under certain circumstances, can be issued an Internet address.
[39:59.520 --> 40:06.640]  [SPEAKER_24]: So that on a dial-up basis, for the duration of your connection, you could subscribe to an Internet service provider.
[40:06.960 --> 40:10.300]  [SPEAKER_24]: And while you're connected, it's as if you're a part of the Internet.
[40:10.700 --> 40:14.020]  [SPEAKER_24]: Your machine, your home computer, actually has an Internet address.
[40:14.600 --> 40:20.920]  [SPEAKER_24]: So to anyone else on the net, it seems as if you're an actual physical node connected to the net, when in fact you aren't.
[40:21.620 --> 40:25.940]  [SPEAKER_24]: So what it's providing you with is the actual real-time connectivity.
[40:26.220 --> 40:28.140]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, what do you mean, when in fact you aren't?
[40:28.900 --> 40:29.480]  [SPEAKER_22]: Aren't you?
[40:29.800 --> 40:30.200]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well...
[40:30.200 --> 40:31.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: At that particular point in time?
[40:31.380 --> 40:34.860]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, I mean, the point that I'm making is that you're not hardwired into the net.
[40:34.860 --> 40:37.220]  [SPEAKER_24]: I mean, you don't have a least-line connection to the net.
[40:37.540 --> 40:40.800]  [SPEAKER_24]: For that particular moment in time, you...
[40:48.320 --> 40:51.100]  [SPEAKER_24]: All you have to do is hang up the phone and you're not on the net anymore.
[40:51.340 --> 40:54.500]  [SPEAKER_24]: So it's kind of like Internet connectivity on demand.
[40:54.660 --> 40:58.740]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, but if you clip the wires in a regular site, you're not on the net anymore either.
[40:59.020 --> 41:01.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know, it's a question of how you disconnect.
[41:01.500 --> 41:02.900]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, but the idea is that...
[41:02.900 --> 41:04.180]  [SPEAKER_22]: You blow it up or something, you know, longer on the net.
[41:04.180 --> 41:12.900]  [SPEAKER_24]: You're using a normal telephone call to get you a direct connection to the net, as opposed to actually having a least-line, whereas you're an actual dedicated connection.
[41:14.260 --> 41:15.200]  [SPEAKER_22]: One step up.
[41:15.380 --> 41:15.600]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[41:15.760 --> 41:16.980]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, a few steps up.
[41:17.060 --> 41:19.720]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's, of course, a lot slower than a dedicated connection would be.
[41:20.460 --> 41:25.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: But it is increasing in popularity, and all services offer that these days.
[41:25.820 --> 41:29.320]  [SPEAKER_24]: I mean, it's really great for things like worldwide web access and things of that nature.
[41:29.320 --> 41:29.820]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's essential.
[41:30.140 --> 41:30.360]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[41:30.600 --> 41:33.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can't have worldwide web access if you don't do it that way.
[41:33.160 --> 41:38.880]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, actually, there's, I mean, one thing that they did to get around that is using something called Slipknot.
[41:39.880 --> 41:40.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: Slipknot?
[41:40.420 --> 41:40.640]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[41:41.060 --> 41:41.860]  [SPEAKER_24]: Slipknot is...
[41:41.860 --> 41:43.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: Is that with a K or without a K?
[41:43.260 --> 41:45.000]  [SPEAKER_24]: No, Slipknot, as in it's not slip.
[41:45.120 --> 41:45.400]  [SPEAKER_24]: Oh, okay.
[41:46.640 --> 41:47.860]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's a play on words.
[41:48.020 --> 41:48.140]  [SPEAKER_24]: Okay.
[41:48.140 --> 41:59.840]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's a program that you could run that if you subscribe to an Internet service provider and you don't want to pay for Slip or PPP, and they have a text-based browser for the World Wide Web known as Lynx, L-Y-N-X.
[42:00.060 --> 42:00.900]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's a joy to use.
[42:01.220 --> 42:01.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[42:02.060 --> 42:02.780]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you...
[42:02.780 --> 42:05.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: You click on the outline words and you can find out that you can't see the picture.
[42:06.240 --> 42:19.400]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, with Slipknot, what it does is that you set up Slipknot on your machine, and what it does is that you log into your service, your Internet service, provided that you have shell access, and you have it run links.
[42:19.960 --> 42:24.300]  [SPEAKER_24]: And what it does is that it transfers the pictures over to your machine and displays them on your screen.
[42:25.140 --> 42:25.580]  [SPEAKER_24]: Right.
[42:25.860 --> 42:27.120]  [SPEAKER_24]: So, in essence...
[42:27.120 --> 42:28.920]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's almost like you're really there.
[42:28.920 --> 42:29.900]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's almost as if you're really there.
[42:30.060 --> 42:30.760]  [SPEAKER_24]: That's ingenious.
[42:30.760 --> 42:31.520]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's a slip connectivity.
[42:31.820 --> 42:31.940]  [SPEAKER_24]: Right.
[42:32.100 --> 42:34.140]  [SPEAKER_24]: You're actually using... it's like links with pictures.
[42:34.340 --> 42:36.900]  [SPEAKER_24]: And it actually presents it for you as if you're using a browser.
[42:37.700 --> 42:39.380]  [SPEAKER_22]: How long a period of time do you have to wait, though?
[42:40.440 --> 42:41.320]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's the same.
[42:41.760 --> 42:43.100]  [SPEAKER_24]: It's the same amount of time.
[42:43.140 --> 42:45.160]  [SPEAKER_24]: And you have to wait for the pictures to be transferred to you anyway.
[42:45.700 --> 42:51.740]  [SPEAKER_24]: Of course, you know, speed-wise, it's not quite as fast as being directly connected with, say, PPP.
[42:52.340 --> 42:57.780]  [SPEAKER_24]: But, I mean, it's negligible for someone who, for whatever cockamamie reason, doesn't want slip or PPP.
[42:58.980 --> 42:59.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: Interesting.
[42:59.500 --> 43:00.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, that's a fairly good explanation.
[43:00.760 --> 43:02.020]  [SPEAKER_22]: Let's go back to the phones.
[43:02.380 --> 43:02.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[43:03.460 --> 43:04.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, you're not around anymore.
[43:05.120 --> 43:05.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: Let's try you.
[43:05.500 --> 43:05.780]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[43:05.920 --> 43:06.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on.
[43:06.360 --> 43:06.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Hi.
[43:06.880 --> 43:16.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: I've tried that my ANI is and the number that you guys were using before with my cellular phone, and neither one of them gives you anything.
[43:18.240 --> 43:21.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: My ANI is gives you some strange number depending on where you are.
[43:22.000 --> 43:24.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: You get a different number depending on which cell.
[43:25.020 --> 43:25.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[43:25.400 --> 43:28.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's the actual outgoing number that's used by the cellular company.
[43:28.220 --> 43:28.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: Right.
[43:28.400 --> 43:32.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: So does that mean that if one wants to be anonymous, a cellular phone isn't all that bad?
[43:33.160 --> 43:36.420]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, I think you should ask OJ and Kevin Mitnick that question.
[43:36.440 --> 43:38.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, they were being tracked a different way, no?
[43:38.660 --> 43:40.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, I mean, they were being tracked in a different way, true.
[43:41.100 --> 43:42.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: But it's not impossible.
[43:42.260 --> 43:47.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you think that cellular phones are a safe way of making calls, well, first of all, anybody can listen to you in the first place, so that's kind of...
[43:47.880 --> 43:58.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I'm talking about if one wants to be anonymous and short and quick, there's apparently no way they can pick up the number that you're calling from and just do a quick hang-up.
[43:58.460 --> 44:00.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, there are billing records, too.
[44:00.600 --> 44:03.040]  [SPEAKER_22]: They can always go back and check out the paperwork.
[44:03.240 --> 44:05.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you want to be anonymous, short, quick, use payphones.
[44:14.680 --> 44:15.560]  [SPEAKER_22]: Payphones.
[44:16.820 --> 44:20.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: You don't have to be a criminal to want to make use of this.
[44:20.520 --> 44:22.540]  [SPEAKER_24]: Just don't use the payphone at the corner of your house.
[44:23.020 --> 44:23.600]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, right.
[44:24.780 --> 44:26.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: You use the same payphone all the time.
[44:26.440 --> 44:27.420]  [SPEAKER_22]: They kind of put it together.
[44:27.780 --> 44:31.660]  [SPEAKER_22]: In fact, it used to be back in my college days, they would figure it out.
[44:32.300 --> 44:33.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: Who called Pakistan?
[44:33.740 --> 44:38.180]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, maybe it's the same person that called the identical number from their room a month before.
[44:38.220 --> 44:40.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's using the payphone to call that number down the hall.
[44:41.420 --> 44:43.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: It didn't take much to figure it out.
[44:43.240 --> 44:44.860]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, yeah, they do have brains.
[44:45.580 --> 44:49.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, if you're looking to cover your trail, you should believe that.
[44:49.660 --> 44:50.200]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening.
[44:50.340 --> 44:50.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: You're on the radio.
[44:51.000 --> 44:52.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, this is Dave from New Jersey.
[44:52.420 --> 44:56.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm calling and wondering if you read an article about this gentleman by the name of Dan Farmer.
[44:57.020 --> 44:58.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: He was dismissed from Silicon Graphics.
[44:58.840 --> 45:01.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: He helped develop security software for free distribution on the Internet.
[45:01.900 --> 45:05.380]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yes, in fact, this sound right here is the sound of that article in my hands.
[45:06.040 --> 45:07.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: The New York Times, something like that.
[45:07.460 --> 45:08.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: The New York Times.
[45:08.160 --> 45:09.980]  [SPEAKER_22]: In fact, it's a John Markoff article that appears today.
[45:10.280 --> 45:10.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, right.
[45:10.820 --> 45:11.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[45:11.300 --> 45:14.260]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, he's releasing this program called Satan on April 5th.
[45:14.960 --> 45:15.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[45:15.560 --> 45:19.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, Fiber, explain to us what Satan is, the program.
[45:19.340 --> 45:34.980]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, Satan is a software tool that was developed by Dan Farmer and a colleague of his from the Netherlands that basically does a very, very thorough probe of a particular site that would go through and inform the person, namely the system administrator,
[45:35.320 --> 45:40.120]  [SPEAKER_24]: what all the security holes are that the program is capable of finding.
[45:40.380 --> 45:42.040]  [SPEAKER_24]: And from what I'm told, it can be quite thorough.
[45:42.640 --> 45:54.360]  [SPEAKER_24]: Now, what Silicon Graphics apparently was worried about is the political or legal repercussions or ramifications of such a tool being released to the world for anyone to use.
[45:56.000 --> 46:00.840]  [SPEAKER_22]: And he was fired from Silicon Graphics, I guess, fairly recently.
[46:01.080 --> 46:02.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, he'll have a job April 6th, though.
[46:03.100 --> 46:04.000]  [SPEAKER_22]: April 6th, yes.
[46:04.100 --> 46:07.800]  [SPEAKER_22]: He supposedly has all kinds of job offers that can begin on April 6th, the day after it's released.
[46:08.980 --> 46:09.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: All righty.
[46:09.520 --> 46:10.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, thanks for the information.
[46:10.700 --> 46:10.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[46:11.160 --> 46:11.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thank you.
[46:11.740 --> 46:14.000]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, we're all looking forward to the release of Satan.
[46:16.480 --> 46:16.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[46:17.380 --> 46:18.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good evening here on the radio.
[46:19.280 --> 46:23.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, can you tell me how much a slip PPP connection would be?
[46:23.120 --> 46:24.020]  [SPEAKER_24]: What's a standard price?
[46:24.280 --> 46:25.600]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think around $20 a month.
[46:25.640 --> 46:28.360]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, typical going rate is $25 on time.
[46:29.140 --> 46:29.540]  [SPEAKER_24]: That's it?
[46:29.780 --> 46:29.940]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[46:29.980 --> 46:31.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: How many hours does that entail?
[46:31.140 --> 46:32.020]  [SPEAKER_24]: That's untimed.
[46:32.340 --> 46:32.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Untimed?
[46:32.860 --> 46:33.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:33.540 --> 46:35.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that a local dial-up?
[46:35.460 --> 46:35.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, sure.
[46:35.860 --> 46:37.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, you see, there's a difference.
[46:37.400 --> 46:42.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: Most of the services offer this personal and corporate slip are different.
[46:42.280 --> 46:45.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: In that personal slip, you're only supposed to use it, you know, when you're using it.
[46:46.040 --> 46:47.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: You don't leave it on 24 hours a day.
[46:47.580 --> 46:49.020]  [SPEAKER_22]: Corporate slip, you can do whatever you want.
[46:49.160 --> 46:51.080]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can have as many people as you want use it.
[46:51.200 --> 46:57.920]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, the difference in price for something like that ranges from about $20 for personal and around $150 for corporate.
[46:59.640 --> 47:01.540]  [SPEAKER_22]: So, those are standard prices.
[47:01.820 --> 47:03.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, it's really no difference either way?
[47:03.800 --> 47:05.940]  [SPEAKER_22]: As far as the actual connection, no.
[47:05.940 --> 47:11.460]  [SPEAKER_22]: But, the thing is, you can do more with a corporate slip in that you can leave it on 24 hours a day.
[47:11.600 --> 47:14.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: You can have multiple people coming in and out using it.
[47:14.660 --> 47:19.180]  [SPEAKER_24]: Well, a lot of services don't particularly care how long you're connected, provided they have a lot of phone lines.
[47:19.540 --> 47:32.020]  [SPEAKER_24]: If you subscribed and got a corporate slip or PPP account, one of the most important things is that they would give you your own dial-up, typically, and that you'd have your own dedicated phone line that was yours to use.
[47:32.280 --> 47:32.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[47:32.520 --> 47:40.340]  [SPEAKER_24]: If you're a slip or PPP user and you just have a personal account, then you're subject to the line being busy at the service provider and so on.
[47:41.060 --> 47:46.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, without the slip PPP account, you can't use the graphical interfaces, such as Mosaic?
[47:46.440 --> 47:47.340]  [SPEAKER_24]: No, not at all.
[47:47.440 --> 47:50.300]  [SPEAKER_24]: You can't use Mosaic or Netscape without a slip or PPP account.
[47:50.520 --> 47:50.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[47:51.100 --> 47:51.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[47:51.480 --> 47:51.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks, guys.
[47:52.120 --> 47:52.660]  [SPEAKER_24]: Thanks for calling.
[47:52.840 --> 47:53.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[47:54.120 --> 47:55.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening, Aaron.
[47:55.120 --> 47:55.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Off the hook.
[47:55.960 --> 47:56.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[47:57.260 --> 48:00.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: A petty little clarification.
[48:03.140 --> 48:13.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: When you spoke of call ID having been available for about a year, you just meant that West 36th Street that you're wired out of had been...
[48:14.540 --> 48:16.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's what I meant.
[48:16.860 --> 48:21.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because, of course, the first in New York State was November 92.
[48:21.480 --> 48:22.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me ask you this.
[48:22.860 --> 48:34.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can you suggest a local company that provides untimed, unlimited monthly slip connection for only $20 or $25?
[48:35.380 --> 48:36.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, Panics is $35.
[48:37.740 --> 48:41.060]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know the exact rates, but obviously you know about Panics.
[48:41.180 --> 48:41.780]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's Escape.
[48:42.580 --> 48:43.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's...
[48:43.160 --> 48:43.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: Escape?
[48:43.960 --> 48:44.120]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[48:44.540 --> 48:48.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you want to go with the big guys, there's Netcom.
[48:48.480 --> 48:50.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, but we know their problems.
[48:50.280 --> 48:51.800]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yes, we certainly do.
[48:51.900 --> 48:52.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, Escape, is that...
[48:52.980 --> 48:53.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Where are they located?
[48:53.820 --> 48:54.900]  [SPEAKER_22]: They're in Manhattan as well.
[48:55.120 --> 48:56.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: I gave their phone number earlier, but I'll give it again.
[48:57.020 --> 48:57.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, thank you.
[48:57.460 --> 49:00.100]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's 212-888-8780.
[49:00.920 --> 49:04.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: And speaking of 888, actually, you're the guy I respect to know this.
[49:04.800 --> 49:13.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: I heard recently that they're assigning a new area code because they're running out of 800 numbers, and it's going to basically be the same thing as 800.
[49:13.620 --> 49:16.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: In other words, all calls are free within the area code.
[49:16.440 --> 49:18.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: The new area code supposedly is 888.
[49:18.320 --> 49:20.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: 7 on down through 880 is what it said.
[49:20.960 --> 49:21.340]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm sorry.
[49:21.480 --> 49:22.240]  [SPEAKER_22]: Did you hear what I said?
[49:22.440 --> 49:22.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.
[49:23.020 --> 49:23.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[49:23.320 --> 49:25.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: You said that 888 will be the next toll-free area.
[49:25.860 --> 49:26.200]  [SPEAKER_22]: That's right.
[49:26.280 --> 49:27.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: Now, is that what you heard?
[49:27.340 --> 49:27.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yes.
[49:28.020 --> 49:40.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then what I read said that once they use up all of 888 and both 800 and 888 are all filled up, they'll start working down 887, 886, and so forth, down through 880.
[49:41.320 --> 49:41.880]  [SPEAKER_22]: Wow.
[49:42.180 --> 49:43.780]  [SPEAKER_22]: So they got this all planned out, don't they?
[49:43.880 --> 49:44.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[49:44.400 --> 49:45.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Would you have heard...
[49:45.560 --> 49:50.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was an article in some magazine, something like Home Office Computing.
[49:50.580 --> 49:52.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: I forget exactly which one it was.
[49:52.920 --> 50:16.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: There were two women who wrote an article, and it said that one of the, I think, big three long-distance companies said that they are going to make it, and maybe this is in connection or sort of under the pressure of nationwide caller ID that will be available starting April 12th.
[50:16.820 --> 50:37.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: It said that on their regular 800 service, you would start being able to see the caller's area code and number without having ANI, which is a thing for big corporate users, right, and without, what's the other way it could appear?
[50:37.820 --> 50:48.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Without having ANI, just a regular 800 service, you could see the caller's area code without having to wait for the bill to come and see it shown on the bill.
[50:48.820 --> 50:53.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Are you talking about the same way that cable and wireless and Wiltel have been doing it on the caller ID box?
[50:53.460 --> 50:54.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, wait a minute.
[50:54.200 --> 51:04.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: With cable and wireless, and by the way, I'm like another caller a few weeks ago who misunderstood what you originally said on that a few months before.
[51:04.360 --> 51:17.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought what you had been saying was that if you made cable and wireless or Wiltel as your dial-one carrier that you would be able to see cell phone and other numbers incoming.
[51:18.160 --> 51:27.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: But what you meant was that you got your number exposed unknowingly, right, when you called out if Wiltel or cable and wireless was your carrier.
[51:28.100 --> 51:28.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right, yes.
[51:28.880 --> 51:29.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's how it works.
[51:29.420 --> 51:30.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Very alarming.
[51:30.400 --> 51:30.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[51:31.660 --> 51:42.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: By the way, when I call that 890-1900 number, it works for me, and I have call ID on both my lines so I can cross-verify it that way.
[51:44.300 --> 51:48.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: When I signed up originally, I had call ID on only one line.
[51:49.080 --> 51:55.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, too, knew no one who had the service, so I was reduced to calling Domino's Pizza shops.
[51:56.800 --> 52:04.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: And politely getting, when they weren't too busy, and I would get the person, I was very careful.
[52:04.860 --> 52:12.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: On the first call, I said, I made it so that I thought it was not revealed.
[52:12.660 --> 52:15.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, does it show what number I'm calling from?
[52:15.740 --> 52:20.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they would say no, because that way they couldn't do it.
[52:21.080 --> 52:21.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: You see what I'm saying?
[52:22.140 --> 52:22.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[52:22.620 --> 52:23.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: They couldn't get it.
[52:24.120 --> 52:37.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: If they were, let's, in the unlikely event, the person who was being cooperative wanted to give me a deceptive answer just to say to be mischievous, well, if I'm asking them, can you see me?
[52:37.180 --> 52:41.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they could not, then they couldn't, there was no way they would just be able to guess my number.
[52:41.420 --> 52:44.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Then I said, may I call you back one more time, do it the other way.
[52:44.300 --> 52:52.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure enough, 9x had, as now it turns out, they had done with tens of thousands of people, they had gotten it backwards.
[52:52.360 --> 52:58.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: I had asked to have all call blocking, and they were only giving me per call blocking.
[52:58.440 --> 52:58.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[52:58.780 --> 53:00.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: So your number was being transmitted.
[53:00.560 --> 53:04.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's something that a lot of people found out the hard way.
[53:04.140 --> 53:23.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: But happily, by being that diligent, and then calling back to them, and assuming, unlike this guy in Albany who called you a couple of weeks ago, I assumed they had just made that, or I didn't, I did not, let's put it this way, I did not assume that they had made the same error with thousands or tens of thousands of customers who had signed up.
[53:23.380 --> 53:39.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just said, well, they've done, they've gotten it backwards with me, so I called back in, got them to change it, they said okay, or maybe they made me call the repair service, I forget which, and after they assured me it had been corrected, I then called another Domino's pizza,
[53:39.620 --> 53:39.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: and that's...
[53:39.800 --> 53:45.600]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, I'm afraid we're going to have to continue this saga in weeks ahead because we're out of time, but thanks very much for starting it.
[53:46.380 --> 53:49.320]  [SPEAKER_22]: Fiver, thanks for being here, and we'll see you next week.
[53:49.480 --> 54:02.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: We'll be back next week with another edition of Off the Hook, and until then, keep track of your various phone odysseys and communication problems and privacy adventures, and we'll try and relay them as best we can in the weeks and months ahead.
[54:02.900 --> 54:04.800]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's Emmanuel Goldstein, have a good night.
[54:56.420 --> 54:59.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: For the eventual making of literature, that early life was probably healthy.
[55:00.020 --> 55:12.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of women in the kitchen talking, two strong languages, English and Russian in my ear at home, and the language of my grandmother and the grown-ups in the street, Yiddish, to remind me of the person I really was, the middle-class child of working people,
[55:12.820 --> 55:17.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: the comfortable daughter of hounded wanderers, resting for a generation between languages.
[55:17.520 --> 55:25.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Tuesday, March 28th at 1 p.m., join me, Abby Smith, for an hour with author, feminist, and peace activist, Grace Paley.
[55:26.120 --> 55:29.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: There'll be an interview, selections from her writings, and listener phone calls.
[55:29.800 --> 55:33.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Find out why it is said, where there's grace, there's hope.
[55:33.520 --> 55:41.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's Tuesday, March 28th at 1 p.m., right after Natural Living with Gary Null, here on WBAI.
[55:56.940 --> 55:57.900]  [SPEAKER_21]: Good evening.
[55:58.240 --> 56:04.040]  [SPEAKER_21]: In the news tonight, anti-abortion forces flexed their muscles in the debate over welfare reform.
[56:04.500 --> 56:11.720]  [SPEAKER_21]: Surprise, surprise, the deadly gas released in Tokyo's subway can be easily found in chemical stockpiles in the United States.
[56:11.940 --> 56:20.500]  [SPEAKER_21]: And here in our region, the city of New York is sued for $13 million over the death while in police custody of 29-year-old Anthony Baez.
[56:20.680 --> 56:25.500]  [SPEAKER_21]: With these and other stories, I'm Jose Santiago in New York with Verna Avery Brown in Washington.
[56:25.600 --> 56:29.060]  [SPEAKER_21]: And this is the news for Wednesday, March 22, 1995.
[56:29.760 --> 56:32.360]  [SPEAKER_21]: First to Washington for the Pacifica National News.
[56:33.140 --> 56:33.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: U.S.
[56:33.980 --> 56:42.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: Defense Secretary William Perry is warning that Iran has moved chemical weapons, 6,000 troops, and anti-ship missiles to islands at the mouth of the Persian Gulf.
[56:43.320 --> 56:46.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Perry says that buildup is very threatening to shipping there.
[56:46.780 --> 56:47.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: U.S.
[56:47.520 --> 56:50.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: officials say they are watching the Iranian situation very closely.
[56:50.940 --> 57:02.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Japanese police early this morning raided the buildings of a right-wing religious sect and reportedly removed about 60 drums filled with chemicals similar to those used in yesterday's deadly poison gas attack.
[57:02.660 --> 57:10.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: However, police are being very careful in their statements, saying the raid took place because of the abduction of a government official earlier this month.
[57:10.420 --> 57:14.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: The Mexican government has sent the Zapatistas a framework for peace negotiations.
[57:15.180 --> 57:21.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: The Interior Ministry says it's pulled the army out of villages and dismantled roadblocks to reduce tensions.
[57:21.480 --> 57:26.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mexican officials are calling for the Chiapas rebels to agree to face-to-face negotiations.
[57:27.100 --> 57:32.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Anti-abortion Republicans switched sides briefly today in an effort to block the welfare reform bill.
[57:33.140 --> 57:40.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: They worried that provisions such as cutting off cash welfare payments to unwed teenage mothers would lead to more abortions.
[57:40.160 --> 57:43.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Still, the House voted to go forward with the welfare reform measure.
[57:43.900 --> 57:48.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: On this vote, the yeas are 217, the nays are 211.
[57:48.720 --> 57:50.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: The resolution passes.
[57:51.320 --> 57:57.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: The Republican plan would replace 45 social programs and fold their funding into state block grants.
[57:57.920 --> 58:02.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Further, people who meet the standards for benefits would no longer be guaranteed to receive them.
[58:02.780 --> 58:07.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Republican John Christian of Nebraska criticized Democrats who are attacking the GOP package.
[58:08.140 --> 58:18.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're defending government programs once intended to give a helping hand to the neediest Americans, but instead has read a soaring out of wedlock bursts, violent crime, and more poverty.
[58:18.580 --> 58:26.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: But the Progressive Congressional Caucus today charged that the Republicans should go after corporate welfare, which is estimated at $265 billion.
[58:27.420 --> 58:29.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Democratic Representative Cynthia McKinney of Georgia.
[58:30.200 --> 58:33.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know how they can look at themselves in the mirror.