Off The Hook - 1995-03-29

[00:08.090 --> 00:12.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Part 1, Monday, April 3rd, 1.30am.
[00:13.030 --> 00:16.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Part 2, Monday, April 10th, 1.30am.
[00:17.190 --> 00:20.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: An exploration into the heart and mind of Rod Serling.
[00:20.930 --> 00:23.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: A journey into the Twilight Zone.
[00:23.570 --> 00:25.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: Lurid details, cultural impact.
[00:26.030 --> 00:28.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: What has Rod Serling wrought?
[00:28.430 --> 00:32.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: Part 1, Monday, April 3rd, 1.30am.
[00:32.050 --> 00:36.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Part 2, Monday, April 10th, 1.30am.
[00:36.290 --> 00:40.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right here on WBAI in New York City.
[00:54.000 --> 00:59.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And at just about 10 o'clock in the evening, you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:59.160 --> 01:00.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's time now for Off the Hook.
[02:03.840 --> 02:05.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a great big hello to everybody.
[02:05.940 --> 02:07.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Off the Hook.
[02:08.320 --> 02:11.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday night.
[02:11.700 --> 02:21.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: on the program that talks about telephone issues and computer security, the latest hacker news, and everything else going on in this wild, exciting world.
[02:22.100 --> 02:23.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Phiber Optik is here with us.
[02:23.320 --> 02:23.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[02:24.960 --> 02:26.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your microphone's not working.
[02:26.460 --> 02:26.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not.
[02:27.000 --> 02:27.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, now it is.
[02:27.500 --> 02:27.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[02:27.680 --> 02:28.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you moved microphones.
[02:28.820 --> 02:30.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why I got all confused.
[02:30.980 --> 02:34.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, my headphones aren't working, so I can barely hear what's going on.
[02:34.400 --> 02:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I'll just have to deal with that, I guess.
[02:36.020 --> 02:42.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, we have, um, chapter two of our exciting saga.
[02:44.860 --> 02:47.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: The search for ISDN.
[02:55.050 --> 03:03.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And in this week's episode, we actually get appointments for the phone people to come to our homes and install ISDN lines.
[03:10.240 --> 03:12.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And supposing, Fiver, we let you go first this time.
[03:12.880 --> 03:14.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Tell us what happened to you this week.
[03:14.790 --> 03:17.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Last week, you began by ordering ISDN.
[03:17.580 --> 03:18.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: The saga began.
[03:18.640 --> 03:21.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Looking at your face now, I can tell you don't yet have ISDN.
[03:21.800 --> 03:24.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, as you can tell, I still look rather sad.
[03:24.520 --> 03:28.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, last week, of course, I ordered ISDN, too, and I don't have ISDN yet.
[03:28.790 --> 03:30.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I have an interesting story, but you go first.
[03:30.860 --> 03:31.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[03:31.020 --> 03:35.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, what happened was that the order as originally taken was incorrect.
[03:35.880 --> 03:39.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they had to cancel the appointment to come and install the line.
[03:39.540 --> 03:40.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's sad.
[03:40.850 --> 03:41.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it was sad.
[03:42.020 --> 03:53.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: The problem was that, according to my, uh, my now, I could say I have a representative at NYNEX, who I've been speaking with regularly, said that, uh, when you place an order for ISDN, it's different.
[03:53.860 --> 04:00.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Although you get a normal telephone line, they have to provision the order differently because they have to install all kinds of equipment in the central office.
[04:01.910 --> 04:06.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they canceled the original order, and they're proceeding to place a new order.
[04:07.440 --> 04:15.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: So now, where I stand right now is, uh, my representative tells me that if I don't hear from her by Friday, to call her.
[04:15.260 --> 04:23.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And she says that all this provisioning and ordering is being done by fax, and that she has to get faxed back to be notified that the order's ready.
[04:23.580 --> 04:28.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: So now I'm basically waiting for what she says should take only 8 to 10 business days.
[04:28.120 --> 04:36.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, speaking of faxed back, um, I used the old NYNEX faxed back service over the weekend to get the latest on their prices for ISDN.
[04:37.000 --> 04:40.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I, I called up and, and I ordered the fax, you know.
[04:40.240 --> 04:44.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was kind of, kind of neat, uh, to be able to do this because usually it, it comes right in.
[04:44.820 --> 04:46.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you get the, you get the fax immediately.
[04:48.220 --> 04:51.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, after doing this, the fax didn't show up.
[04:51.960 --> 04:53.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just did not appear.
[04:54.600 --> 04:56.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I did it again.
[04:56.320 --> 04:57.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it still didn't happen.
[04:57.480 --> 05:00.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a couple hours later, I figured they must have, have fouled up something.
[05:00.740 --> 05:02.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I just tried it one more time, still nothing.
[05:04.120 --> 05:09.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Finally, very, very late that night, around 11.30 or so, uh, all three of them came through at once.
[05:09.440 --> 05:11.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really wasted a lot of fax paper there.
[05:12.230 --> 05:13.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's how it works.
[05:13.320 --> 05:14.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You, you, you get the rates that way.
[05:14.780 --> 05:16.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the only way to really find out what the rates are.
[05:16.420 --> 05:18.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And those rates are pretty, pretty bizarre.
[05:19.280 --> 05:19.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty strange.
[05:20.200 --> 05:20.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty weird.
[05:20.740 --> 05:21.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some of it doesn't quite make sense.
[05:21.580 --> 05:22.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we're going to get into that.
[05:22.060 --> 05:23.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I want to add, though, about that 800 number.
[05:24.060 --> 05:25.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: 800, get ISDN.
[05:25.180 --> 05:25.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[05:25.400 --> 05:26.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: It hasn't been up.
[05:26.780 --> 05:27.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: What, it's not up now?
[05:27.680 --> 05:31.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Since you, I didn't check it today, but since you got those faxes, it hasn't been up.
[05:31.180 --> 05:32.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are you implying that I broke it?
[05:32.300 --> 05:34.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I'm implying that something, something was wrong.
[05:34.520 --> 05:35.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I broke ISDN.
[05:35.440 --> 05:35.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, no.
[05:36.040 --> 05:37.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Something was seriously wrong with it.
[05:37.700 --> 05:39.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, if anyone's going to break ISDN, it's going to be us.
[05:39.900 --> 05:40.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[05:40.160 --> 05:40.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know that.
[05:41.900 --> 05:43.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, that's not a threat.
[05:43.520 --> 05:44.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is probably a fact.
[05:44.860 --> 05:51.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, what we're going to do then is, um, we're going to try and call the fax back service right now and see if we get a fax.
[05:51.220 --> 05:55.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Even though we don't have a fax machine here, you know, that's not going to stop us from trying to get a fax.
[05:55.920 --> 06:00.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so the number is 1-800-GET-ISDN.
[06:04.610 --> 06:06.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you say this number has not been up.
[06:06.350 --> 06:08.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just keeps ringing unless they fixed it.
[06:08.470 --> 06:09.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, let's hope they fixed it.
[06:11.090 --> 06:14.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to the NYNEX ISDN Information Hotline.
[06:14.450 --> 06:19.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you are calling to inquire about the New York region, press 1.
[06:19.210 --> 06:23.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you are calling to inquire about the New England region, press 2.
[06:24.450 --> 06:26.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we're going to inquire about New York.
[06:27.070 --> 06:29.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you are a vendor, press 1.
[06:29.830 --> 06:30.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're not a vendor.
[06:30.490 --> 06:32.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you are a sales channel, press 2.
[06:32.510 --> 06:33.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're not a channel.
[06:33.270 --> 06:33.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not a channel.
[06:33.690 --> 06:35.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: For all other inquiries, press 3.
[06:35.750 --> 06:36.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's us.
[06:36.470 --> 06:38.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: If at any time you would like to return to the...
[06:38.790 --> 06:43.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: What we're going to do is, we're going to ask if the WBAI area, 212-279 area code, It has ISDN capabilities.
[06:44.470 --> 06:47.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you would like to check availability, press 1.
[06:47.990 --> 06:48.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[06:48.650 --> 06:52.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please enter the area code and exchange that you are inquiring about.
[06:56.570 --> 06:58.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-279.
[06:58.750 --> 07:02.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: You entered 212-279.
[07:02.930 --> 07:05.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: If this is correct, press 1.
[07:06.510 --> 07:11.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: ISDN basic rate and ISDN primary rate are available.
[07:11.790 --> 07:14.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: For more options, press the pound key.
[07:14.630 --> 07:15.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's good news, isn't it?
[07:15.690 --> 07:17.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the call, press 1.
[07:18.570 --> 07:19.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we want more information.
[07:19.970 --> 07:20.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that right?
[07:20.350 --> 07:21.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: To get the fax?
[07:21.510 --> 07:21.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[07:21.990 --> 07:22.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hit pound.
[07:23.310 --> 07:26.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you would like to check availability, press 1.
[07:26.790 --> 07:29.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you would like to receive pricing, press 2.
[07:30.030 --> 07:30.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I think that's what we want.
[07:31.050 --> 07:32.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: We want to receive pricing.
[07:32.490 --> 07:32.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that correct?
[07:33.130 --> 07:33.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Press 3.
[07:34.150 --> 07:34.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[07:34.870 --> 07:37.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: To leave a message, press 4.
[07:37.030 --> 07:42.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please enter the NYNEX area code for which you want pricing and information.
[07:42.410 --> 07:44.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess our area code, 212.
[07:45.790 --> 07:48.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please enter your 10-digit fax number.
[07:49.130 --> 07:51.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we're going to enter a secret number here.
[07:59.090 --> 08:05.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: You entered 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-0.
[08:06.150 --> 08:08.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: If this is correct, 1.
[08:09.130 --> 08:11.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: To re-enter, press 2.
[08:11.970 --> 08:12.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[08:12.890 --> 08:13.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[08:13.690 --> 08:17.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: You will receive a fax of the requested information shortly.
[08:17.790 --> 08:20.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: For more options, press the pound key.
[08:20.350 --> 08:20.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here, try something.
[08:21.070 --> 08:21.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do more options.
[08:21.490 --> 08:22.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the call...
[08:22.110 --> 08:22.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: You want more options?
[08:22.870 --> 08:23.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, more options.
[08:24.490 --> 08:26.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you would like to check availability...
[08:26.150 --> 08:27.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Check availability again.
[08:27.290 --> 08:27.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's 1.
[08:27.970 --> 08:29.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: What, of the same area?
[08:29.210 --> 08:30.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, for a different exchange.
[08:31.070 --> 08:31.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: 2.
[08:31.450 --> 08:31.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[08:31.970 --> 08:36.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: For IS, please enter the area code and exchange that you are inquiring about.
[08:37.130 --> 08:40.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, let's do 718-369.
[08:41.630 --> 08:45.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: You entered ISDN is not available.
[08:45.670 --> 08:46.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, note what they're saying.
[08:46.990 --> 08:49.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: That happens to be a prefix in my own central office.
[08:50.030 --> 08:52.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're saying it's not available, yet I ordered it and it is available.
[08:52.910 --> 08:54.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe that explains why you don't have it yet.
[08:55.010 --> 09:00.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it's to illustrate the point that they don't seem to be updating the service very often.
[09:00.750 --> 09:03.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: You mean that that could be data from a long, long time ago?
[09:03.590 --> 09:07.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I don't know at what frequency that they actually update things.
[09:07.330 --> 09:09.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, now, I had a bit more success last week.
[09:09.790 --> 09:16.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: I ordered ISDN and I actually got them to agree, though grudgingly, to make an appointment to come out and install this ISDN line.
[09:17.150 --> 09:21.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have to get a special ISDN truck and all that and cart it all out there.
[09:21.390 --> 09:23.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they don't really know what they're talking about.
[09:23.510 --> 09:25.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, one representative called it ISDN.
[09:26.530 --> 09:30.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're at that stage where it's still developing technology at NYNEX.
[09:32.550 --> 09:37.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: They said on Friday, Friday morning, bright and early, they will be out installing ISDN.
[09:37.550 --> 09:43.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: But since that particular appointment has been made, I've made some discoveries regarding pricing.
[09:43.170 --> 09:45.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is what's bizarre, is the pricing.
[09:45.810 --> 09:48.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: What was the rate that we were able to...
[09:48.310 --> 09:50.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: When we got one of these faxes to a real fax machine...
[09:50.870 --> 09:52.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: By the way, our fax has not arrived yet.
[09:52.810 --> 09:58.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: When we got a fax, we looked at the installation prices.
[09:58.450 --> 09:59.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: You mean just for the line, right?
[09:59.410 --> 10:00.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just for an ISDN line.
[10:00.690 --> 10:00.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[10:00.850 --> 10:01.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they are incredible.
[10:01.910 --> 10:02.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[10:02.270 --> 10:04.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I was told by my representative that that was wrong.
[10:05.190 --> 10:06.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, never mind that.
[10:06.270 --> 10:07.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everything is probably wrong that they tell us.
[10:07.950 --> 10:08.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[10:08.170 --> 10:09.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: But what does it say?
[10:09.050 --> 10:12.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: It actually said $225 for a residential installation.
[10:13.410 --> 10:20.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that if you were in an area where ISDN wasn't yet available, and you had to have it specially wired for you, they would charge you extra money.
[10:20.830 --> 10:23.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: They would charge you an additional $75 for a total of $300.
[10:24.790 --> 10:29.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, to upgrade an existing analog line to ISDN, how much does that cost?
[10:29.650 --> 10:30.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was only $24.
[10:30.830 --> 10:32.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so it doesn't stand to reason.
[10:32.810 --> 10:36.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have to do a lot of thinking to say to yourself, Well, why not just have a regular phone line installed?
[10:37.230 --> 10:38.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maximum cost is $80.
[10:39.290 --> 10:40.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the maximum.
[10:40.450 --> 10:40.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[10:40.910 --> 10:41.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay?
[10:41.370 --> 10:43.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then you upgrade it for another $24.
[10:44.410 --> 10:46.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, $80 if you already have wiring.
[10:46.490 --> 10:47.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you do.
[10:47.250 --> 10:47.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, most people do.
[10:49.550 --> 10:50.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, that stands to...
[10:50.650 --> 10:51.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, our fax is here.
[10:52.270 --> 10:53.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello, fax.
[10:53.710 --> 10:54.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Listen to this.
[10:54.370 --> 10:55.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is our fax.
[10:59.050 --> 11:00.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what a fax sounds like when it comes in.
[11:01.070 --> 11:05.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, if you ever get a phone call with these little beeps on it, you're getting a fax.
[11:06.950 --> 11:08.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you don't know you're getting a fax because...
[11:08.710 --> 11:11.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you don't have a fax machine to pick it up, so...
[11:11.090 --> 11:13.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, right now, NYNEX is trying to fax us something.
[11:13.390 --> 11:14.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can you do a fax imitation?
[11:14.950 --> 11:16.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll try to do my best fax imitation.
[11:16.630 --> 11:16.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[11:16.650 --> 11:17.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here comes a fax imitation.
[11:21.900 --> 11:22.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: How's that?
[11:23.320 --> 11:24.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: It hung up.
[11:24.860 --> 11:26.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: You made it hang up.
[11:26.740 --> 11:27.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay.
[11:29.320 --> 11:30.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe it'll call back.
[11:30.980 --> 11:33.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: If it's good fax, it'll call back incessantly.
[11:33.740 --> 11:33.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, well.
[11:33.920 --> 11:34.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[11:34.040 --> 11:38.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, we have a situation now where the pricing just doesn't make any sense.
[11:39.060 --> 11:42.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm thinking of calling them and saying, look, come out and install an analog line.
[11:42.460 --> 11:44.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then, as soon as they do that, I'll say, hey, you know what?
[11:44.520 --> 11:45.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to upgrade this to ISDN.
[11:45.960 --> 11:46.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here's 20 bucks.
[11:47.040 --> 11:48.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, go do it.
[11:49.140 --> 11:50.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know where this is going to end.
[11:50.660 --> 11:52.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is obviously the beginning of a very, very long saga.
[11:52.740 --> 11:53.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
[11:53.860 --> 11:56.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I explained this to my NYNEX rep, and she reassured me.
[11:56.600 --> 11:58.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't know where they got that figure from in the fax pack.
[11:59.160 --> 12:04.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: But she says that they will not charge me more than what it would cost to install a normal phone line.
[12:05.660 --> 12:06.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[12:06.860 --> 12:09.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the day is coming when we will have ISDN service.
[12:09.900 --> 12:11.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you plan on doing with your ISDN service?
[12:11.900 --> 12:21.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, what I wanted to do, besides just making data calls or voice calls, what I wanted to actually do was play with the X.25 packet switch service.
[12:21.980 --> 12:24.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because it seems to be a brand new thing.
[12:25.220 --> 12:28.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: As far as just seeing who's networked, who's out there.
[12:28.660 --> 12:30.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Someone's hacking our phone lines.
[12:31.020 --> 12:37.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're moving one by one down all the phone lines, trying to find the secret number that will make us think they're a fax.
[12:38.060 --> 12:40.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: But we already did this, so forget it.
[12:40.520 --> 12:41.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just give up.
[12:41.240 --> 12:41.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at this.
[12:41.720 --> 12:42.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're going all over the place.
[12:43.480 --> 12:44.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now two people are doing it.
[12:45.060 --> 12:45.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's incredible.
[12:45.660 --> 12:46.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're just hopping all over.
[12:47.080 --> 12:50.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Unless it's NYNEX and we got them angry, that's possible, too.
[12:50.040 --> 12:53.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: One by one, our phone lines started blinking until they all lit up.
[12:55.120 --> 12:57.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, I don't know quite what I'm going to do with ISDN yet.
[12:58.140 --> 12:58.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure.
[12:59.000 --> 13:04.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think I'll just experiment with it as a regular phone line with special equipment, just to see what its capabilities are.
[13:04.260 --> 13:08.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then from there, we'll just maybe upgrade other lines as well.
[13:08.880 --> 13:15.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I did find a local Internet service provider in the city that actually has ISDN access right now.
[13:15.240 --> 13:18.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the only one I know of, and it's the Internet channel.
[13:19.560 --> 13:24.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they actually have a couple of Ascend pipeline boxes.
[13:24.720 --> 13:31.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: So right now, you can actually make an ISDN call, and they actually do gateway ISDN to Ethernet.
[13:32.740 --> 13:33.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty neat.
[13:33.760 --> 13:33.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[13:34.260 --> 13:34.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty neat.
[13:35.300 --> 13:37.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we have a couple of updates.
[13:37.260 --> 13:38.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: First of all, media news.
[13:38.760 --> 13:41.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's update people on various media things.
[13:41.780 --> 13:48.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was told that there's some sort of a story tonight on NBC about the nation running out of phone numbers.
[13:49.260 --> 13:51.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess NBC just sort of found out about that.
[13:53.020 --> 13:54.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: We are running out of phone numbers, as we mentioned.
[13:55.420 --> 14:01.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: The 800 area code is going to be expanding to 888, which I think is very hard to say.
[14:02.260 --> 14:03.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Call us toll-free, 888.
[14:04.640 --> 14:05.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[14:05.340 --> 14:06.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't roll off your tongue.
[14:06.340 --> 14:07.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: It seems like an effort to say.
[14:08.080 --> 14:11.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: And 887, 886, 885, all those will be toll-free.
[14:11.500 --> 14:12.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not intuitive, though.
[14:13.080 --> 14:22.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: If they had done it this way, if they had said, say, the 400 area code, 300, 400, 500, 600, something like that, all toll-free, it would have been easier to remember.
[14:23.440 --> 14:25.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, 888, okay, what about 889?
[14:25.520 --> 14:26.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that toll-free?
[14:26.400 --> 14:26.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't know.
[14:27.220 --> 14:28.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't make much sense.
[14:29.440 --> 14:31.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's the way things are going to be in the future.
[14:32.460 --> 14:35.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: 10-digit phone numbers of all different styles and varieties.
[14:36.420 --> 14:38.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's something supposedly that was on NBC.
[14:38.780 --> 14:39.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anyone saw that, give us a call.
[14:40.040 --> 14:41.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let us know what they said.
[14:41.100 --> 14:47.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: And later on this week, perhaps next week, there's going to be a piece on CBS that involves filming here at VAI, where they were...
[14:47.900 --> 14:50.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Remember that CBS person was here a couple of weeks ago?
[14:50.780 --> 14:52.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what their piece is.
[14:52.160 --> 14:54.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's got something to do with spies or something like that.
[14:54.340 --> 14:55.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know where we fit into that.
[14:56.520 --> 14:57.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: It can only be us.
[14:57.220 --> 15:01.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Then a week from tonight, Discovery Channel has a one-hour piece.
[15:01.620 --> 15:02.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Another one-hour piece.
[15:02.440 --> 15:03.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not Hack Attack.
[15:03.880 --> 15:09.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is something in conjunction with time and their cyberspace issue.
[15:09.360 --> 15:10.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did you see the cyberspace issue?
[15:10.800 --> 15:11.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I missed that.
[15:12.420 --> 15:14.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: That came out last week.
[15:14.520 --> 15:16.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: But this will be on next Wednesday, 8 p.m.
[15:17.360 --> 15:18.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's right before our show.
[15:18.740 --> 15:19.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't know.
[15:19.840 --> 15:23.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be good and mad, I guess, by the time we get on the air, if it's anything like the other one.
[15:23.940 --> 15:26.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, and we have an update on the Bernie S.
[15:26.500 --> 15:26.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: situation.
[15:26.900 --> 15:33.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: As we mentioned last week, Bernie S., who has been on this program many times, is a consultant and expert.
[15:34.040 --> 15:38.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, he was on while Phiber Optik was in prison, talking with us about many things.
[15:39.040 --> 15:42.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, he also was with us when we drove you to prison, Phiber Optik.
[15:42.740 --> 15:45.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it was quite an experience.
[15:45.240 --> 15:47.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now he himself is in prison.
[15:47.740 --> 15:51.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this just gets stranger and stranger as I read more about it.
[15:51.620 --> 15:59.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: It would appear that simply because he had in his possession a red box, which is really, when you come down to it, five beeps.
[15:59.900 --> 16:01.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, one beep five times.
[16:01.920 --> 16:03.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what a red box is.
[16:03.520 --> 16:07.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've done it on this radio program, so I guess the radio program itself can be considered a red box.
[16:08.460 --> 16:16.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: But for having one of those, he is in prison, has been, since March 13th, on $100,000 bail.
[16:17.180 --> 16:20.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's a really scary thing when you think of it.
[16:20.080 --> 16:22.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a press release that is being distributed on the net.
[16:23.140 --> 16:28.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we urge people to spread the word about this so more and more people can find out about it.
[16:29.280 --> 16:42.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Several friends of Bernie S., who is known as Ed Cummings, that's his real name, have prepared this press release due to the fact that a man is being held on $100,000 bail for possessing the right electronic components to trick a payphone into giving free telephone calls.
[16:42.580 --> 16:46.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: His promotion of these devices is not against any law in the land.
[16:46.060 --> 16:52.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, the governments of Delaware County, which is in Pennsylvania, and the United States are acting as though their own laws do not matter to them.
[16:53.280 --> 17:03.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ed Cummings, also known to many in cyberspace as Bernie S., was arrested on March 13th for two misdemeanors of possession, manufacture, and sale of a device to commit telecommunications fraud.
[17:03.660 --> 17:07.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: He is being held in Delaware County Prison on $100,000 bail.
[17:08.860 --> 17:09.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is his story.
[17:10.260 --> 17:12.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: On the evening of the 13th, Bernie S.
[17:12.740 --> 17:14.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: received a page from his mail drop.
[17:14.600 --> 17:18.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some people he knew from Florida had stopped in at his mail drop thinking it was his address.
[17:18.300 --> 17:21.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: They were looking to purchase several 6.5 MHz crystals.
[17:21.960 --> 17:31.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: These crystals, when used to replace the standard crystal in the Radio Shack hand telephone dialer, and with a little programming, produced tones that tricked payphones into believing they had received coins.
[17:32.860 --> 17:40.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: These are commonly referred to as red boxes, and get their name for an actual red box, pulled from a payphone in the late 70s by some curious person.
[17:41.340 --> 17:48.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ed Cummings met these people at a local 7-Eleven, where he was to sell the widely used electronic timing crystals for roughly $4 apiece.
[17:49.420 --> 17:53.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: The purchaser only had two $20 bills, and Ed Cummings had no change.
[17:53.700 --> 17:56.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: He went into the 7-Eleven to get some change to make the transaction.
[17:57.180 --> 18:03.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: A police officer noticed a van parked in the parking lot of the 7-Eleven with several African-Americans inside.
[18:03.520 --> 18:05.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, there you go.
[18:05.360 --> 18:06.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right away, there's something up.
[18:07.180 --> 18:12.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: As Ed was leaving the 7-Eleven, he noticed 15 police cars pulling into the parking lot of the 7-Eleven.
[18:13.740 --> 18:15.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can't have vans with African-Americans hanging out.
[18:16.080 --> 18:17.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't know what's going to happen after that.
[18:18.060 --> 18:22.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Next thing he knew, the police were asking him if they could trifle through his car.
[18:23.280 --> 18:24.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: He said no.
[18:24.620 --> 18:29.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Moments later, as he was talking to a detective, he noticed another police officer going through his car.
[18:29.800 --> 18:30.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: He asked the officer to stop.
[18:30.860 --> 18:31.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: They did not.
[18:32.820 --> 18:35.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Remember, after 12 years of Reagan Bush, they can pretty much do whatever they want.
[18:37.580 --> 18:45.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: They confiscated a few hundred 6.5 MHz crystals, which, as we mentioned, he sells for about $4 apiece, and a large box of 100 dialers.
[18:45.900 --> 18:50.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: The police told him they would get back to him, and he could have his electronics back if the contents of the bag were legal.
[18:51.140 --> 18:58.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: In the contents of the seized items was one modified dialer that a customer returned after modification, explaining it did not work.
[18:59.140 --> 19:00.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, it was a broken red box.
[19:01.520 --> 19:12.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: The next day, Ed Cummings was over at a friend's house, working on their computer, when 8 to 10 plain-clothed armed men burst into the house and ordered him and his friends to freeze.
[19:13.420 --> 19:15.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: They cuffed him and took him to a holding cell.
[19:16.040 --> 19:19.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: There, he was left without a blanket or jacket to sleep with in a cold cell.
[19:20.680 --> 19:26.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: That evening, the Secret Service had been called in when someone figured out what the dialers and crystals would do when put together.
[19:26.360 --> 19:29.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: The United States Secret Service found his home and entered it.
[19:31.880 --> 19:36.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the next morning, at his arraignment, he was finally told of the charges he was being held on.
[19:36.600 --> 19:45.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: There were two misdemeanor charges of manufacture, distribution, and sale of devices of telecommunications fraud and two unlawful uses of a computer.
[19:46.300 --> 19:52.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: His bail was automatically set to $100,000 because he didn't talk with the police without his attorney present.
[19:52.900 --> 19:54.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Therefore, he was labeled a troublemaker.
[19:55.420 --> 20:00.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Secret Service presented to the judge a nine-page inventory of what they had found in his home.
[20:00.560 --> 20:11.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: On that inventory were 14 computers, two printers, boxes of BIOS chips for the systems he worked with, EEPROM burners, which the federal agents had labeled cellular telephone chip reprogramming adapters.
[20:12.780 --> 20:15.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: EEPROMs are used in everything from automobile computers to personal computers.
[20:16.120 --> 20:22.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: They also confiscated his toolbox of screwdrivers, wire clippers, and other computer-oriented tools he used for his consulting jobs.
[20:23.240 --> 20:33.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: The judge dropped the two unlawful use of computer charges due to the fact that the evidence was circumstantial and the county had no actual evidence that Ed had ever used the computers that they were talking about.
[20:34.460 --> 20:41.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: As of now, Ed Cummings is still in Delaware County Prison awaiting his trial, which has not yet been scheduled.
[20:41.960 --> 20:44.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, of course, raising $100,000 is not something that's very likely.
[20:46.240 --> 20:47.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's everything we know.
[20:48.340 --> 20:49.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sound familiar?
[20:49.960 --> 20:55.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sounds like business as usual where law enforcement's concerned.
[20:56.120 --> 20:59.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: But what I can't understand is what are they trying to charge him with?
[20:59.900 --> 21:03.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, has it been illegal to possess a kit on how to build...
[21:03.760 --> 21:05.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, they sell these things in popular electronics.
[21:06.520 --> 21:12.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you can buy kids to do all kinds of things, but actually using it to do something illegal, that is what is illegal.
[21:12.720 --> 21:19.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now are we going to say that having the components together to make something that could be used to do something illegal, that in itself is illegal now, too?
[21:20.160 --> 21:22.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's a very murky ground.
[21:22.380 --> 21:23.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is in California.
[21:24.060 --> 21:25.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I've heard that.
[21:25.180 --> 21:28.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've heard in California that's true, but it's very hard to enforce.
[21:28.900 --> 21:29.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[21:29.660 --> 21:37.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, the whole thing with red boxes is that everybody's got one of these things, but the thing that's illegal about it is using it.
[21:37.460 --> 21:37.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[21:37.720 --> 21:39.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're caught using it, that's when you get into trouble.
[21:39.620 --> 21:43.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, even if you're caught using it, $100,000 bail?
[21:43.500 --> 21:44.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does that make any sense?
[21:45.340 --> 21:50.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think they were watching that new program on USA, the William Shatner show, the tech war.
[21:50.420 --> 21:50.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[21:50.920 --> 21:51.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: The whole tech thing.
[21:51.920 --> 21:52.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe they think...
[21:53.240 --> 21:55.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Didn't they originally think that Ed was doing a drug deal?
[21:56.020 --> 21:57.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's what they thought.
[21:57.460 --> 21:57.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[21:57.560 --> 22:00.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, when they had the van filled with African-Americans...
[22:00.840 --> 22:00.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[22:01.460 --> 22:05.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: ...they, you know, parked in the 7-Eleven, they originally thought there was some sort of drug deal going on.
[22:05.500 --> 22:14.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, when they got there with their 15 cars and realized there wasn't, I guess they figured they wanted to get something for their money, you know, and they concocted this whole thing.
[22:14.840 --> 22:16.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe it was all the talk about Christens.
[22:16.480 --> 22:18.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, remember the story we read last week?
[22:18.360 --> 22:34.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, the story we read last week from the Philadelphia Inquirer made Ed out to be some crazy person that he spent hours in his room alone sometimes, and he had books on explosives and how to get even on people and spy catalogs and all kinds of things like that.
[22:35.060 --> 22:38.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, after reading that, yeah, $100,000 bail doesn't seem like enough.
[22:40.460 --> 22:55.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: When you know the person as we do and when you realize what this is really all about, it seems like every time we examine things a little bit further, like with the Kevin Mitnick story, with your story, with this story, we see that the facts just don't support what they are saying,
[22:55.900 --> 22:56.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: what they are doing.
[22:57.820 --> 23:00.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, we don't have an address for him as of yet.
[23:00.180 --> 23:01.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to get that.
[23:02.540 --> 23:05.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we don't really have much else in the way of information.
[23:05.060 --> 23:06.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's been kind of hard to find out.
[23:06.880 --> 23:13.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I'll spend the next week trying to get more first-hand information on the Bernie S.
[23:13.160 --> 23:13.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: case.
[23:13.940 --> 23:17.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, of course, if you have any questions, feel free to call us and we'll do our best to answer them.
[23:18.580 --> 23:20.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a scary world out there.
[23:20.200 --> 23:27.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, anybody could just be stopped and, hey, you got a crystal on you, that crystal could be used for something illegal, go to jail.
[23:28.260 --> 23:28.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[23:29.980 --> 23:31.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Today's daily news.
[23:31.380 --> 23:34.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Caller ID lets people who have bought little devices see your phone number when you call.
[23:35.680 --> 23:40.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's fine, but it's also possible to block caller ID so your number does not pop up whenever you use the phone.
[23:41.140 --> 23:43.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have done that with our phone for privacy reasons above all.
[23:44.560 --> 23:48.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: One day, to validate a new credit card, I dialed an automated 800 number.
[23:48.720 --> 23:52.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: In less than 30 seconds, the recording told me that my phone number was verified.
[23:52.660 --> 23:54.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where was my block on caller ID?
[23:54.460 --> 24:00.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: After many calls to NYNEX, I finally was advised that 800 and 900 numbers override the caller ID block.
[24:00.940 --> 24:07.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: The 911 emergency number is not technically sophisticated enough to override, but business operations and phone sex lines are.
[24:07.560 --> 24:10.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: This has got to be viewed as fairly disgusting.
[24:11.740 --> 24:18.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I can sort of see this person's point, but he's woefully misinformed as far as how this actually works.
[24:18.040 --> 24:19.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not a question of overriding.
[24:20.160 --> 24:22.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: 800 and 900 numbers use ANI.
[24:22.220 --> 24:24.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, nothing to do with caller ID whatsoever.
[24:24.540 --> 24:25.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a different technology.
[24:25.640 --> 24:29.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: As for the 911 number, I would always assume that they could see your number.
[24:29.560 --> 24:30.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, actually they can't.
[24:30.860 --> 24:39.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right now, if you check your phone bill, you'll notice that for the past couple of years you've been paying for the new New York City enhanced 911 system, which doesn't exist yet.
[24:39.680 --> 24:40.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why are we paying for it then?
[24:41.240 --> 24:46.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because they're billing it back to us for basically for a system yet to be announced.
[24:47.060 --> 25:02.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, a lot of the rest of the country already has this system called Enhanced 911 where you call something and not only does your phone number show up, your name, address, even in some cases a map of your house, where it is, if you have chemicals that are going to explode and various,
[25:02.620 --> 25:05.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: you know, things that you have told them supposedly.
[25:05.240 --> 25:08.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, thanks to NYNEX, one of the biggest cities in the world does not yet have Enhanced 911.
[25:09.440 --> 25:09.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Fascinating.
[25:10.320 --> 25:17.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: But if you call the police and hang up and call them again and keep hanging, you know, if you prank the police, they're going to find, they know your number.
[25:17.180 --> 25:17.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: They do.
[25:17.920 --> 25:21.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, chances are they're going to call the phone company and have the call traced.
[25:22.020 --> 25:24.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, couldn't the police just have regular caller ID?
[25:24.120 --> 25:25.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, nowadays they can.
[25:26.060 --> 25:26.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nowadays, sure.
[25:28.240 --> 25:28.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[25:28.720 --> 25:29.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's something.
[25:30.300 --> 25:32.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, I've got an interesting story.
[25:32.100 --> 25:33.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: This just happened to me today.
[25:33.520 --> 25:35.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: First, I want to show it to you.
[25:37.940 --> 25:38.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Check that out.
[25:38.640 --> 25:39.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think of that?
[25:40.500 --> 25:41.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you see that?
[25:41.700 --> 25:42.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's amazing.
[25:43.360 --> 25:44.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your signature on a receipt.
[25:45.000 --> 25:45.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[25:45.640 --> 25:46.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's my signature on a receipt.
[25:47.060 --> 25:47.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what it is.
[25:47.820 --> 25:53.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the way this whole thing transpired is totally different than any other receipt I've ever signed in my life.
[25:53.840 --> 25:59.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, normally when you make a credit card purchase, it used to be you had to, you know, ka-chunk the thing.
[25:59.420 --> 25:59.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[25:59.480 --> 26:01.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then you had several carbons you had to sign through.
[26:01.320 --> 26:05.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now a little printer prints out this slip of paper and you sign the bottom of it.
[26:05.460 --> 26:08.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, as of today, I saw a new and different way of doing it.
[26:09.120 --> 26:13.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: The person said to me, I need you to sign your name within the box.
[26:13.780 --> 26:16.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I noticed that she wasn't ripping off the piece of paper.
[26:16.760 --> 26:19.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: She was holding the piece of paper onto the machine.
[26:19.980 --> 26:25.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I looked closer and I realized that when I signed my name, it was actually being recorded into the machine.
[26:26.020 --> 26:29.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this little light went on saying, Sign.
[26:30.000 --> 26:35.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: As I was signing, it felt the pressure of the pen as I was signing and it was registering the fact that I was doing this.
[26:35.880 --> 26:38.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: As soon as I finished signing, I heard a dial tone.
[26:38.700 --> 26:44.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: The thing dialed away and verified my identity, my signature, my purchase, everything.
[26:44.240 --> 26:44.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[26:44.700 --> 26:47.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the new way credit cards are going to be verified.
[26:47.680 --> 26:50.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know how you ever sign a UPS package?
[26:50.120 --> 26:50.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[26:50.720 --> 26:52.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: They record your signature digitally.
[26:52.600 --> 26:52.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[26:53.120 --> 26:56.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they're doing the same thing now for every credit card purchase, at least for this one.
[26:56.480 --> 26:58.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I imagine this is the prototype of something new.
[26:58.940 --> 26:59.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.
[26:59.420 --> 27:00.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, take a good look at that.
[27:01.140 --> 27:05.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wish I could show the people over the radio, but hey, it's not my fault it's a radio.
[27:05.860 --> 27:06.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[27:07.020 --> 27:09.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
[27:09.440 --> 27:10.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: What, do you want to see it up close?
[27:10.240 --> 27:11.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have a new thing about Satan.
[27:11.620 --> 27:11.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Satan?
[27:12.180 --> 27:12.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[27:17.800 --> 27:19.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Satan is an acronym.
[27:19.320 --> 27:20.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: You like saying that, don't you?
[27:20.800 --> 27:21.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just like saying Satan.
[27:22.140 --> 27:22.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, fine.
[27:23.140 --> 27:24.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Tell us more about Satan, Fiverr.
[27:24.860 --> 27:34.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a, it's an acronym for a tool, a security tool that was written by a security specialist named Dan Farmer who is well known on the Internet.
[27:34.860 --> 27:38.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: He developed Satan along with a colleague of his from the Netherlands.
[27:38.640 --> 27:44.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: And all the hoopla is that Dan Farmer is going to be releasing Satan to the world for free.
[27:45.000 --> 27:48.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, and...
[27:48.100 --> 27:49.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that prophesied somewhere?
[27:50.360 --> 27:50.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because of this fact...
[27:50.960 --> 27:53.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: That Farmer would be released Satan one day.
[27:53.340 --> 27:57.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because of this fact, he was actually fired from his job at Silicon Graphics.
[27:57.380 --> 27:59.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that was a big article in the New York Times last week.
[27:59.660 --> 27:59.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[27:59.920 --> 28:00.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: About this.
[28:00.560 --> 28:10.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, the update that I read in this brand new issue of Information Week, there was a whole big spread with pictures of Dan Farmer and more updates.
[28:11.200 --> 28:11.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[28:11.520 --> 28:18.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basically, since SGI, Silicon Graphics was, had a relationship with Netscape.
[28:18.620 --> 28:21.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Netscape being the people who make the nice web browser.
[28:22.360 --> 28:27.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: They, he actually designed the interface for Satan around Netscape.
[28:27.940 --> 28:29.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, and they had a picture of it.
[28:29.700 --> 28:31.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basically, it looks like a web page.
[28:32.020 --> 28:36.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: It has a picture of, this twisted up picture of Satan's face, I suppose.
[28:37.000 --> 28:41.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it has a little box in the middle that allows you to type in the name of a domain on the Internet.
[28:42.020 --> 28:49.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then it allows you to click whether you want to attack that machine specifically or a subnet or every machine in that domain.
[28:50.220 --> 28:50.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[28:50.440 --> 29:00.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And underneath that, you can click whether you want to do just a really quick check, medium check, or a super-duper, really thorough security attack on the site.
[29:00.940 --> 29:02.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's basically it.
[29:02.720 --> 29:07.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it'll try any number of security attacks on the site and come back and give you a report of how it's vulnerable.
[29:08.840 --> 29:15.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, those in the Don Parker, as opposed to Don Parker's school of thought...
[29:15.140 --> 29:16.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: He was quoted in the article.
[29:16.520 --> 29:17.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not surprised.
[29:17.280 --> 29:23.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: He tends to think the exact opposite, that these kinds of tools should be restricted, not given out to people.
[29:25.180 --> 29:28.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently, at least at SGI, that thought prevailed.
[29:28.800 --> 29:29.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think they...
[29:29.700 --> 29:31.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: It wasn't so much that they were worried about lawsuits.
[29:32.320 --> 29:34.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it was more legal.
[29:34.380 --> 29:36.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: But he wasn't releasing it as SGI.
[29:36.780 --> 29:37.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: He was releasing it as himself.
[29:37.980 --> 29:43.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but people could say he was an employee of SGI and he developed it on SGI's time, on SGI's computers.
[29:45.220 --> 29:57.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: But Don Parker's quote was kind of funny because he had the typical knee-jerk reaction that this is bad, this is wrong, that low-level hackers are going to use this who won't even understand security.
[29:57.660 --> 30:04.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: They could just load up Satan and point and click and all of a sudden they'll be able to access a site or an entire domain.
[30:04.340 --> 30:20.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then the paragraph right after that, they had a quote from someone from Trusted Information Systems, TIS, which is another security consulting firm, saying that anyone who thinks that Satan does anything harmful or dangerous has their head in the sand.
[30:20.860 --> 30:28.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: and that it's a completely ridiculous response to say that forgetting the fact that Satan doesn't do anything new and different.
[30:28.920 --> 30:32.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: All the security holes that Satan checks for are known and published.
[30:33.800 --> 30:44.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And more importantly than anything else, it allows any system administrator a simple point-and-click interface to come back and tell them exactly where they're vulnerable.
[30:44.580 --> 30:44.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: people.
[30:45.580 --> 30:54.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, on the one hand, you have professionals saying that the risks are outweighed by the fact that even an unskilled system administrator can learn to protect their site.
[30:54.920 --> 30:55.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[30:55.420 --> 31:02.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: And on the other hand, you have crazy people like Don Parker at SRI saying, everyone should remain uninformed at all costs.
[31:02.180 --> 31:07.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, if everyone remains uninformed, then suddenly the job security consultant becomes that much more lucrative.
[31:08.060 --> 31:08.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[31:08.460 --> 31:10.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because he's the only one speaking the language.
[31:10.120 --> 31:11.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: and you need him.
[31:12.320 --> 31:13.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: You need a translator, too.
[31:14.200 --> 31:15.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[31:16.440 --> 31:17.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, does anyone know Morse code?
[31:19.000 --> 31:19.480]  Uh...
[31:19.480 --> 31:19.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[31:20.180 --> 31:21.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've got to tell us what this means.
[31:25.730 --> 31:27.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, sorry, you only get one chance.
[31:27.330 --> 31:30.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: But if anyone out there got it, let us know.
[31:30.230 --> 31:40.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because that's what happens when you turn on this neat device that I just got called the Scout, which allows you to listen for frequencies or monitor for frequencies.
[31:40.650 --> 31:46.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: If someone were to transmit anywhere around this area, I'd immediately see the frequency.
[31:46.690 --> 31:48.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it would beep to let us know this.
[31:48.350 --> 31:52.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: So this is an important thing to have when you're wandering around looking for interesting things to listen to.
[31:52.730 --> 32:01.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're wondering if your room is monitored, some sort of a transmitter someplace, it's important to have these things.
[32:02.130 --> 32:04.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we'll be playing with that in the weeks to come.
[32:05.090 --> 32:06.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll let you know what we find.
[32:06.950 --> 32:09.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
[32:10.970 --> 32:12.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can we go to the phones?
[32:12.470 --> 32:12.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[32:12.870 --> 32:13.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's do it.
[32:13.330 --> 32:13.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[32:14.590 --> 32:14.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
[32:15.110 --> 32:16.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, you're on the air.
[32:16.690 --> 32:17.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, just a minute.
[32:17.790 --> 32:18.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to turn my radio down.
[32:19.830 --> 32:21.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, about the iPhone.
[32:22.070 --> 32:24.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Which we have not talked about at all today, but okay, yes.
[32:24.830 --> 32:29.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: iPhone being the way of transmitting voice over the Internet live.
[32:29.510 --> 32:29.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[32:30.210 --> 32:32.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't actually got to use the iPhone yet.
[32:32.250 --> 32:33.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've been trying, but it's no avail.
[32:33.910 --> 32:48.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, but I have a theory, an idea, with, could you tell that to a dial-out and then with your iPhone call, like, say, like a voice number or someone who doesn't have a connection to the Internet and talk to them with the iPhone through the dial-out?
[32:49.610 --> 32:50.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, no.
[32:50.610 --> 32:50.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh.
[32:52.170 --> 32:53.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, not exactly.
[32:53.510 --> 32:53.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it depends.
[32:53.850 --> 32:54.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you believe in magic?
[32:54.910 --> 32:55.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[32:56.730 --> 33:00.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, iPhone doesn't actually use normal telephone numbers.
[33:00.390 --> 33:03.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: It actually uses Internet addresses.
[33:03.610 --> 33:17.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basically, someone with a direct connection to the Internet or a slip or PPP account, whereby using their high-speed modem through an Internet service provider, they seemingly have a direct connection to the net.
[33:17.370 --> 33:19.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you need an address on the net.
[33:19.410 --> 33:22.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: It has nothing to do with the public telephone network whatsoever.
[33:22.690 --> 33:23.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: I understand, yeah.
[33:24.010 --> 33:26.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I've been trying to connect.
[33:26.510 --> 33:26.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you need...
[33:26.990 --> 33:29.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have to use Winsock to connect to the iPhone?
[33:29.330 --> 33:33.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're using a PC, you need some sort of dynamic...
[33:33.550 --> 33:34.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: What are they called?
[33:36.430 --> 33:38.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dynamically linked library.
[33:38.450 --> 33:40.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, you need some sort of sockets module.
[33:40.610 --> 33:43.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Winsock is the easiest one to get on PCs since it's free.
[33:43.950 --> 33:45.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's what I have.
[33:46.690 --> 33:49.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: It should expand in the months ahead.
[33:49.870 --> 33:50.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's what I thought.
[33:51.070 --> 33:52.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I had another question for you.
[33:52.750 --> 33:56.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: About the craft access computers, yeah, the ones phone companies use.
[33:57.090 --> 33:58.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what exactly do they use them for?
[33:59.450 --> 34:02.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there's a couple of different models of craft access terminals.
[34:02.370 --> 34:12.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's the older yellow ones that look like oversized test sets that had a screen behind the earpiece with a little joystick to scroll and a keypad behind the mouthpiece.
[34:13.370 --> 34:17.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: There were more enhanced versions that looked like little palm-top computers.
[34:17.510 --> 34:31.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Most common thing that they were used for was for a repair service technician to pick up an order basically from dispatch to find out where their next job was going to be, the address, what the actual order was.
[34:31.710 --> 34:34.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then when they were done with the work, market is being completed.
[34:35.270 --> 34:41.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: And some craft access terminals actually allow access to test phone lines and so on.
[34:41.850 --> 34:44.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a lot of them have an electronic mail feature.
[34:44.650 --> 34:45.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, alright.
[34:45.730 --> 34:46.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks a lot.
[34:46.490 --> 34:47.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[34:47.310 --> 34:47.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: See ya, bye.
[34:48.510 --> 34:51.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
[34:51.170 --> 34:52.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is off the hook.
[34:53.510 --> 34:56.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know there was a train disaster in Jamaica this past week?
[34:56.210 --> 34:56.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[34:56.590 --> 34:57.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you know about this?
[34:57.670 --> 35:09.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I heard this on the radio the day before that there was going to be yes, no kidding, there was going to be a derailment at Jamaica where a diesel train was going to hit an electric train.
[35:11.030 --> 35:16.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: It wasn't really a derailment, it was a plan disaster so they could see how well these things worked.
[35:17.550 --> 35:25.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: So bright and early Sunday morning, me and a couple of other press people went over there to see just how this thing worked.
[35:25.390 --> 35:30.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Too bad we didn't have this frequency counter then because that certainly would have yielded quite a few frequencies.
[35:30.270 --> 35:40.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the way it worked was basically we all stood up on the bridge just west of the Jamaica station on the tracks is this little overpass.
[35:40.810 --> 35:50.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we all stood up there and the police said okay, we're about to start and then over the radio they actually said we have a report of a derailment at Jamaica station.
[35:51.050 --> 36:01.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then from around the corner all these fire trucks that had been waiting there suddenly started careening around the corner to get there as quickly as they could and they got there pretty fast.
[36:01.870 --> 36:10.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: and then once they got there they all kind of put out the fake fire they managed to get smoke to come out of the train.
[36:10.510 --> 36:19.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, what's funny was at one point they said the fire is out but the smoke kept coming out apparently they couldn't turn off whatever smoke was being generated so they didn't really do that.
[36:20.010 --> 36:31.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Then they started carrying out these fake victims who had a tough time not smiling especially when we were saying funny things in front of them and it's awfully hard to take pictures for the media to take pictures of victims who were smiling.
[36:32.950 --> 36:46.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they had all these it's fascinating to watch a disaster in the works they had these little tests and I guess progress reports that they get back to each other on and they have meetings about this.
[36:46.750 --> 36:50.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: They do this several times a year from what I hear it's the first time I've ever heard of this.
[36:50.830 --> 36:51.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I've never heard of it myself.
[36:51.910 --> 36:54.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if they hadn't mentioned it on the radio I never would have known at all about it.
[36:54.930 --> 37:08.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know who they tell about these disasters but the funny thing was just watching all these people running around with their equipment radio communications you would never know walking down the street if this is real or not.
[37:08.410 --> 37:12.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean it sure looks real but it was totally fake.
[37:13.090 --> 37:13.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it a movie?
[37:13.990 --> 37:15.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it a fake disaster?
[37:15.190 --> 37:16.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it a real disaster?
[37:16.650 --> 37:23.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's hard to tell even with radio communications unless you know what to listen for you may never know if it's really happening.
[37:24.270 --> 37:28.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: So in case people were wondering what was going on in Jamaica last Sunday morning that's what it was.
[37:28.470 --> 37:30.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: fake disaster this time.
[37:31.610 --> 37:35.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay 212-279-3400 Good evening you're on the radio.
[37:35.810 --> 37:36.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh good.
[37:37.270 --> 37:37.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: WBAI?
[37:37.810 --> 37:38.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[37:38.470 --> 37:38.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh good.
[37:40.390 --> 37:41.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Two points.
[37:41.570 --> 37:49.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is probably old news to you but we got a letter from the phone company saying that not all the we have caller ID blocker.
[37:49.530 --> 37:51.430]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know if that's the right name for it.
[37:51.570 --> 37:53.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes and it wasn't working on a lot of phone lines.
[37:53.970 --> 37:55.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Was yours one of them it wasn't working on?
[37:55.330 --> 37:55.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah right.
[37:55.990 --> 37:56.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[37:56.610 --> 38:02.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think I remember a couple of occasions when well phone company operators evidently overcome it anyway.
[38:02.890 --> 38:11.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's understandable but I think I recall only not clearly several occasions I was surprised that somebody knew my number.
[38:12.230 --> 38:12.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[38:12.950 --> 38:13.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know?
[38:14.310 --> 38:17.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: So I guess I don't know I suppose they're working on that.
[38:17.470 --> 38:20.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well the operator knows your number but that's not through caller ID.
[38:20.870 --> 38:23.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: I know I know that they know the number anyway.
[38:23.870 --> 38:26.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: I asked them and they said well telephone company operators will know the number.
[38:27.130 --> 38:27.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[38:27.430 --> 38:29.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now as far as regular people knowing your phone number?
[38:30.090 --> 38:31.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah I think I've been surprised on some occasions.
[38:31.950 --> 38:33.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's yeah that sounds like caller ID.
[38:34.090 --> 38:36.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Unless you're calling an 800 number or something.
[38:36.310 --> 38:37.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Straightening it out I don't know.
[38:38.090 --> 38:54.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: Also when I was calling in is there a I know on long distance they cut you off after about 24 rings now so that you can never stay plugged into something where it's important that you stay plugged into it for the person on the other end eventually to answer you know.
[38:54.310 --> 38:54.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[38:55.070 --> 38:57.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not just long distance it's also local.
[38:57.730 --> 39:01.370]  [SPEAKER_19]: Question because I've stayed on here but I thought I might be getting to the top of the queue.
[39:01.830 --> 39:15.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: I wasn't you know I've got a the plunger is in the handset so I thought maybe I had tilted it the wrong way and turned it off you know as I because I moved wrong you know with my handset and my face and everything.
[39:15.290 --> 39:15.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[39:15.830 --> 39:23.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: But maybe I just stayed on long enough they get to the top of the queue and you're about to pick up the phone and they cut off the phone number right?
[39:23.930 --> 39:24.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[39:25.110 --> 39:26.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well that's what they do.
[39:26.570 --> 39:27.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: How many rings do they give you?
[39:28.130 --> 39:29.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well it's hard to say exactly.
[39:30.090 --> 39:31.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Depends on what your circumstances are.
[39:31.750 --> 39:32.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you in New Jersey?
[39:32.870 --> 39:33.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: No.
[39:33.490 --> 39:34.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you?
[39:34.290 --> 39:34.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Brooklyn.
[39:34.730 --> 39:35.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're in Brooklyn.
[39:35.210 --> 39:36.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay so you don't go long distance to get here.
[39:37.150 --> 39:37.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[39:37.270 --> 39:38.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You go through NYNEX.
[39:38.070 --> 39:49.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: So what's going to cut you off will be our central office the 212-279 central office which has I don't know a couple of minutes three minutes four minutes I don't know what it is exactly.
[39:49.670 --> 39:49.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something like that.
[39:49.950 --> 39:53.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah there's all the digital offices seem to have some sort of an upper limit.
[39:54.070 --> 39:56.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's longer than long distance companies allow you though.
[39:56.570 --> 40:04.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you call from New Jersey and you go through AT&T or MCI or something like that they're going to cut you off before the 212-279 exchange cuts you off.
[40:05.290 --> 40:20.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: Can various like a call in station or any other number that had a reason to let its caller stay on a queue longer can they ask the telephone company to overcome that of course at an appropriate exorbitant fee.
[40:20.430 --> 40:22.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well I mean it's certainly doable.
[40:22.750 --> 40:27.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes it's definitely doable whether or not the phone company will do it is doubtful at best.
[40:27.610 --> 40:32.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: And yeah you're right they probably would try to charge us even though they're certainly not losing money from this.
[40:32.390 --> 40:38.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean worst case scenario 10 phone lines are ringing without collecting money for them.
[40:38.130 --> 40:40.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean I'm sure that's going to break the phone company right there.
[40:40.710 --> 40:41.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Are they...
[40:42.630 --> 40:48.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: Can you if you have sufficient engineering ability do it yourself or is there a legal or engineering reason you can't?
[40:48.410 --> 40:54.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think there's some pretty clear cut legal reasons why we can't be in the phone company computer making adjustments even though we'd like to be.
[40:54.830 --> 41:00.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah I don't know I didn't know if it could be done at the local what do you call it the local number.
[41:00.370 --> 41:01.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everything is programming.
[41:01.650 --> 41:02.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everything is a computer program.
[41:04.050 --> 41:05.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay thank you.
[41:05.230 --> 41:06.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay thanks for calling.
[41:08.150 --> 41:10.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think it would take to do something like that?
[41:10.470 --> 41:11.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can't even imagine.
[41:11.890 --> 41:14.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know exactly at what point they started doing that.
[41:15.330 --> 41:17.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: It seems to be every digital exchange.
[41:17.950 --> 41:18.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:18.310 --> 41:20.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Five ESS's and DMS-100's.
[41:20.410 --> 41:21.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: They weren't always like that though.
[41:21.950 --> 41:24.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: You mean DMS-100's and five ESS's didn't always time out?
[41:24.650 --> 41:28.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: They would eventually time out but it used to take a very long time.
[41:29.410 --> 41:32.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: I remember crossbars and I think 1A's too.
[41:33.010 --> 41:34.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: It would virtually ring forever.
[41:34.350 --> 41:35.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: They would ring forever.
[41:35.170 --> 41:35.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:35.630 --> 41:35.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Forever.
[41:37.670 --> 41:42.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean there's really nothing wrong with that because very few people are doing it.
[41:42.670 --> 41:42.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:42.950 --> 41:46.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you're letting a phone ring a hundred times it's probably for a good reason.
[41:46.550 --> 41:46.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know?
[41:47.990 --> 41:57.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know or maybe for a bad reason but the thing is it just doesn't seem like an economical reason to cut it off after 24 rings or however many.
[41:58.670 --> 41:59.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[41:59.290 --> 41:59.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on Off the Hook.
[42:00.150 --> 42:00.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, terrific.
[42:01.490 --> 42:04.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: You guys are going to have to figure something out because what that guy said is absolutely true.
[42:07.250 --> 42:08.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: You ring, you ring, you ring.
[42:08.370 --> 42:15.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: You guys are talking and it's fascinating stories but we're like biting our nails waiting to see if they'll cut us off before we get on.
[42:15.570 --> 42:15.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[42:15.930 --> 42:17.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's all chance.
[42:17.950 --> 42:18.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is there a way for...
[42:18.810 --> 42:22.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean I'm going to drop this but is there a way for you guys to put us on hold or something?
[42:23.010 --> 42:26.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's the only way I can think of otherwise where people are going to ring in and get hung up on.
[42:26.530 --> 42:31.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: There have been rumors of a new phone system being installed here but then again those rumors have been around for quite some time.
[42:32.190 --> 42:36.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe we'll be able to do that but keep in mind that as soon as we pick up the phone that's when billing begins.
[42:36.710 --> 42:38.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: I realize for most people around here it doesn't really matter.
[42:38.770 --> 42:39.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a local call.
[42:40.690 --> 42:41.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, no, I understand.
[42:41.790 --> 42:47.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's just a question of it's an hour show and you think you're going to get on and boom, you know, the rug's pulled out from under you.
[42:48.830 --> 42:52.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: On the other hand, we do want only the strongest people to get through.
[42:52.990 --> 42:57.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: People that are able to survive the wait.
[42:57.730 --> 43:00.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't want someone who's going to give up after a mere five minutes.
[43:00.510 --> 43:03.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: We know the people that are on here are cheating, of course.
[43:03.430 --> 43:03.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[43:04.110 --> 43:07.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: People like you are, you know, you'll stick with us for the long run.
[43:07.930 --> 43:10.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm, fortunately for whoever,
[43:23.650 --> 43:26.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: you asked before, I sort of have an answer one way or the other.
[43:26.870 --> 43:28.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: The NBC report you were talking about?
[43:28.690 --> 43:29.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, did you happen to see that?
[43:30.050 --> 43:30.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[43:30.730 --> 43:38.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: It was like a basic fluff piece, but it was kind of informational because I don't think they said anything no one ever knew about that a decent amount of reading.
[43:38.910 --> 43:43.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think there was a telephone area code FAQ on the Internet and has been on the Internet for a long time.
[43:44.030 --> 43:49.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: Someone's been posting a huge file about the way that TeleCore, or Cortel?
[43:50.390 --> 43:50.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Belcor.
[43:50.990 --> 43:51.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right, right, TeleCore.
[43:52.450 --> 43:52.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Belcor.
[43:53.130 --> 43:53.590]  [SPEAKER_17]: Area code?
[43:54.450 --> 43:55.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, Belcor.
[43:55.710 --> 43:56.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: Belcor, excuse me.
[43:56.710 --> 43:57.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, that's...
[43:57.250 --> 44:06.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: And basically, they said that, you know, all the zero and one rules are going to go out the door and if you want to call your aunt down the hall, you're going to have to dial an 11-digit number.
[44:07.970 --> 44:14.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, aside from that, there wasn't much more other than saying that cellular phones and everything else are taking up bandwidth.
[44:16.090 --> 44:20.590]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, nothing much new on the horizon, but now more people know about it, obviously.
[44:21.130 --> 44:21.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[44:21.650 --> 44:23.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: And the other question was Internet access.
[44:23.510 --> 44:27.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: There are a few number of Internet providers that provide ISDN access.
[44:27.810 --> 44:33.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: And you were talking about, or one of you were talking about Internet channels who has, I think, two lines up.
[44:35.070 --> 44:41.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: If I may pitch something, I don't have an interest in this company, but Ingresscom has like 10 lines, or they claim they have 10 lines.
[44:42.270 --> 44:42.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[44:42.710 --> 44:43.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is that company?
[44:44.350 --> 44:46.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: Ingresscom, I-N-G-R-E-S-S.
[44:46.290 --> 44:48.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's one of those basement type of operations.
[44:49.070 --> 44:49.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[44:50.030 --> 44:57.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, yeah, they snagged 10 ISDN lines, and they proudly emblazoned that fact on their shell account.
[44:57.090 --> 44:58.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, if anyone's interested.
[44:59.650 --> 45:02.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they only charge like, I think, 25 flat for a PPP account.
[45:02.850 --> 45:05.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, both ways, it's pretty good.
[45:06.150 --> 45:06.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[45:06.510 --> 45:06.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think.
[45:06.990 --> 45:07.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[45:07.490 --> 45:08.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, thanks for that.
[45:08.010 --> 45:09.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know if you knew about that or not.
[45:09.590 --> 45:13.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't myself, but then again, there are lots of companies out there right now.
[45:13.170 --> 45:14.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, they're all standing in line like we are.
[45:14.950 --> 45:15.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[45:15.910 --> 45:22.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: The other question I wanted to ask you was, basically, relate my experience with ISDN.
[45:22.190 --> 45:24.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: I hope I can sort of give you a quick summary of what happened.
[45:24.970 --> 45:26.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: I've been sort of trying to do this for three months.
[45:26.470 --> 45:29.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know how long you guys have been trying to do it.
[45:30.310 --> 45:31.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: But anyway...
[45:31.030 --> 45:33.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've been trying straight for about two weeks.
[45:33.570 --> 45:33.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: Two weeks?
[45:34.090 --> 45:34.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[45:34.810 --> 45:36.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, we've been thinking about it.
[45:36.870 --> 45:38.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: naive, idealistic people.
[45:38.710 --> 45:40.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we wanted to get ready.
[45:40.470 --> 45:41.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: We knew this day was coming.
[45:41.830 --> 45:46.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: three months ago, I can safely say that from the president on down, NYNEX knew nothing about ISDN.
[45:47.090 --> 45:48.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: Or at least they claimed not to.
[45:49.650 --> 45:53.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: And first of all, they still don't have a consumer division that will treat ISDN.
[45:54.070 --> 45:59.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know if that's changed, but last time I called, which was about two weeks ago, everything was handled through the business office.
[45:59.550 --> 46:02.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, they do have a residential ISDN person.
[46:02.830 --> 46:03.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:04.590 --> 46:07.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's only one guy, but if you reach him, he can answer questions.
[46:08.310 --> 46:09.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: Are you talking about the product manager?
[46:10.730 --> 46:11.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Was that a product manager?
[46:12.750 --> 46:17.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think ultimately they all report to the product manager, but my representative is in Manhattan.
[46:18.110 --> 46:18.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a woman.
[46:19.090 --> 46:19.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[46:19.610 --> 46:22.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: And she knows everything about residential ISDN.
[46:22.490 --> 46:28.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, good for her, because there's another woman in Long Island who apparently gets her share of the Queen's accounts, which is where I am.
[46:29.470 --> 46:33.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I had a man on Long Island, and he took care of the Long Island accounts.
[46:33.350 --> 46:33.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: Really?
[46:34.030 --> 46:36.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, so there's at least three people on NYNEX who seem to know something about this.
[46:36.950 --> 46:39.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's another person that apparently everyone reports to, so in any case...
[46:39.850 --> 46:40.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's only fabled.
[46:41.730 --> 46:43.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: In any case, there was...
[46:43.430 --> 46:44.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: It was like pulling teeth.
[46:44.870 --> 46:45.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: No one knew.
[46:46.430 --> 46:48.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you ask them, they would get kind of...
[46:48.390 --> 46:49.790]  [SPEAKER_17]: Some of the representatives are pretty funny.
[46:49.870 --> 46:53.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: They would get kind of angry because they wouldn't know and they thought you were like pulling their leg.
[46:53.690 --> 46:54.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[46:54.470 --> 46:58.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they've had their share of four-letter acronyms that have been thrown at them over the years.
[46:58.570 --> 46:59.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I had the same experience with...
[46:59.810 --> 47:03.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: I was laughing my head off because I had the same experience with 800 get the ISDN.
[47:03.730 --> 47:04.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know if it's improved.
[47:04.910 --> 47:06.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: The prompt sounds a little different.
[47:06.170 --> 47:11.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: When I called, it took like 10 hours, like in the middle of the night.
[47:11.230 --> 47:16.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: My phone rang about five times and gave me five blank sheets of paper saying this fax is not available.
[47:17.430 --> 47:24.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: The one that I did get was dated in May 1992 saying how wonderful business ISDN was going to be in two years.
[47:25.270 --> 47:25.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: So...
[47:25.750 --> 47:26.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: And when did you...
[47:26.470 --> 47:27.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: The prices were outrageous.
[47:27.630 --> 47:29.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: When did you get this fax from 1992?
[47:31.070 --> 47:31.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: You had...
[47:31.870 --> 47:32.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: That was their latest document.
[47:33.270 --> 47:34.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's their latest one.
[47:34.250 --> 47:34.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know.
[47:34.930 --> 47:37.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: I hope you guys have better luck when you get your faxes.
[47:37.530 --> 47:44.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, by next week at this time we will have something to say because supposedly at least one of us is supposed to have ISDN by then.
[47:44.830 --> 47:46.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we'll see what that actually...
[47:46.330 --> 47:46.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[47:46.790 --> 47:49.130]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just to wrap things up positively, absolutely last thing.
[47:49.670 --> 47:52.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: NYNEX, obviously, like you heard about some of the prices.
[47:52.830 --> 47:54.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: Those are quoted to me as well.
[47:54.750 --> 48:01.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: Now they're telling me that if I convert an analog line, my current analog line, I'm more than happy to upgrade, I think, for like 20 bucks.
[48:01.510 --> 48:04.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: But they have to have someone come in to look at the line.
[48:04.390 --> 48:05.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I said, are they going to stalling the line?
[48:05.550 --> 48:05.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: No.
[48:05.870 --> 48:06.650]  [SPEAKER_17]: They have to look at it.
[48:06.790 --> 48:07.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: Why do they have to look at it?
[48:07.730 --> 48:09.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: Because they have to physically examine the line.
[48:10.390 --> 48:12.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: They couldn't give me a better answer than that.
[48:12.790 --> 48:13.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they said, is he going to do anything?
[48:14.030 --> 48:14.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: No.
[48:14.330 --> 48:17.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: But he's going to charge you for an on-site visit.
[48:17.630 --> 48:19.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: And that'll cost like 160 bucks.
[48:20.050 --> 48:22.110]  [SPEAKER_17]: So it's like, well, why don't you just convert it from the central office?
[48:22.230 --> 48:23.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they couldn't have an answer for that.
[48:23.450 --> 48:26.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they said they could, but the guy still has to come out and physically look at your line.
[48:28.530 --> 48:35.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'll tell you the difference between this and any other baby belt provider that I know about, Pac Bell, has their own web server.
[48:36.010 --> 48:44.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think five out of the seven bells have their own web page including Atlantic Bell just in our backyard.
[48:45.170 --> 48:47.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: Ninex does not, and I believe there's one out in the West that doesn't.
[48:47.690 --> 48:51.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: But anyway, all the others will convert your analog line in maybe two days.
[48:52.070 --> 48:58.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: Ninex says that even when they convert it, your line has to be off the hook for eight days, which is lovely for those of us who don't want enough.
[48:58.490 --> 48:58.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Off the hook?
[49:00.410 --> 49:03.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: And Pac Bell will charge you 125 bucks.
[49:03.430 --> 49:05.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: Most of the other companies will charge you about that.
[49:05.870 --> 49:10.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: But they will waive it if you sort of quote-unquote pledge to keep the service for two years.
[49:11.090 --> 49:13.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think everyone is pretty decent with that.
[49:13.550 --> 49:20.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think anyone is going to change once they convert I think once competition is introduced, Ninex may not be around for two years.
[49:20.290 --> 49:20.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Crazy.
[49:21.150 --> 49:26.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they all say if you make calls within local access, within your local calling district, it's a flat rate call.
[49:27.190 --> 49:31.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: It may be 12 cents versus 10 cents, but it would be 12 cents if you're on an hour or if you're on a minute.
[49:32.290 --> 49:36.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: Ninex has the infinite wisdom of charging everybody a penny a minute.
[49:36.930 --> 49:40.110]  [SPEAKER_17]: Now, if, you know, obviously a penny a minute is a big deal.
[49:40.510 --> 49:41.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a digital soul charge.
[49:42.310 --> 49:42.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm sorry.
[49:42.590 --> 49:47.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you're on an Internet server and you're on the line like 40 hours a day, that's 24 bucks.
[49:48.630 --> 49:49.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they can't...
[49:49.830 --> 49:51.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, for business, maybe you can get away with it.
[49:51.950 --> 49:54.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: In fact, I think most baby bells charge a minute rate.
[49:54.970 --> 49:57.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: But if it's a residential consumer and you're actually...
[49:57.890 --> 50:00.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think Ninex ends up saving money when this is all converted.
[50:00.890 --> 50:04.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't understand why they're so retentive about these rates.
[50:04.930 --> 50:12.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think the is because they're a monopoly, because they're the only one in town, and because that kind of practice has worked for them over the years.
[50:12.510 --> 50:13.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: They think it's going to keep working.
[50:13.850 --> 50:15.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they're wrong.
[50:15.330 --> 50:16.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: But time will tell.
[50:16.530 --> 50:17.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for the call.
[50:17.310 --> 50:17.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to move on.
[50:18.310 --> 50:20.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's one thing that I want to check.
[50:20.890 --> 50:21.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's that?
[50:21.510 --> 50:23.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the ISDN number again.
[50:23.150 --> 50:24.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to call that back, okay?
[50:25.450 --> 50:26.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: 1-800.
[50:28.510 --> 50:29.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Get ISDN.
[50:29.770 --> 50:34.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think happens if you ask it if the 555 exchange has ISDN?
[50:34.490 --> 50:36.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: I would probably think it would say no.
[50:36.350 --> 50:38.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: The NYNEX ISDN information.
[50:38.670 --> 50:39.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's find out.
[50:39.250 --> 50:39.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where are you?
[50:39.930 --> 50:42.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're calling to inquire about the New York region.
[50:42.170 --> 50:43.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're number three, whatever three stands.
[50:43.170 --> 50:44.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, you want to please try again.
[50:44.530 --> 50:45.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: You want to do New York first.
[50:45.910 --> 50:46.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, one.
[50:46.590 --> 50:48.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you are a vendor...
[50:48.250 --> 50:48.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now three.
[50:49.230 --> 50:52.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you would like to check availability, press one.
[50:52.470 --> 50:54.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please enter the area code and exchange...
[50:54.850 --> 50:56.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we're going to enter 2-1-2-5-5-5.
[50:57.530 --> 50:58.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: It should...
[50:59.170 --> 51:00.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: not like this at all.
[51:01.670 --> 51:02.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: You entered 2.
[51:03.330 --> 51:04.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're sorry.
[51:04.410 --> 51:07.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: The information you requested is not available at this time.
[51:08.070 --> 51:11.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please leave a message so that we can assist you in the future.
[51:11.970 --> 51:15.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please leave your name, telephone number, including the area code.
[51:15.650 --> 51:17.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we got them mad, so we're not going to continue with that.
[51:18.130 --> 51:19.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, something else I wanted to try.
[51:21.270 --> 51:26.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to call our friendly operator and we're going to ask them about an exchange which should not have existed last year.
[51:27.850 --> 51:28.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pick a new one.
[51:28.850 --> 51:29.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: An area code, rather.
[51:29.750 --> 51:30.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you let me help you?
[51:30.850 --> 51:31.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, operator.
[51:31.710 --> 51:34.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm trying to find out the location for area code 360.
[51:37.670 --> 51:38.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where area code?
[51:38.950 --> 51:39.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: 2-1-2?
[51:39.770 --> 51:41.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, 360 area code.
[51:42.070 --> 51:42.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[51:43.430 --> 51:44.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to give you information.
[51:44.510 --> 51:47.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think there's an area code 360 that I know of.
[51:47.390 --> 51:47.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hold on.
[51:47.990 --> 51:48.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you want to talk to information?
[51:49.190 --> 51:50.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, information where?
[51:51.510 --> 51:54.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: New York information will give you area codes and they will check to see.
[51:54.610 --> 51:57.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: See, the area codes have been changed now and I'm not familiar with that.
[51:57.850 --> 51:58.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[51:58.210 --> 52:00.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have one before they didn't.
[52:00.490 --> 52:03.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think I recognize that unless you're calling overseas.
[52:04.870 --> 52:09.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I think it's an area code in the United States but wouldn't the long distance operator know this?
[52:10.290 --> 52:15.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but you get a recording first so information here will have that information too.
[52:15.590 --> 52:17.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, and for only 45 cents I guess it's worth it.
[52:17.990 --> 52:19.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, transfer me away then.
[52:19.210 --> 52:19.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[52:19.730 --> 52:20.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[52:20.870 --> 52:22.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: They get a percentage every time they do this.
[52:23.050 --> 52:24.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Should have went to AT&T.
[52:25.270 --> 52:26.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: May I help you?
[52:26.110 --> 52:26.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, yes.
[52:27.030 --> 52:27.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where am I?
[52:27.370 --> 52:27.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this information?
[52:28.190 --> 52:28.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's directory.
[52:29.090 --> 52:31.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, I need to know where area code 360 is, please.
[52:32.490 --> 52:34.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: 360 is not an area code, sir.
[52:34.330 --> 52:35.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: 360 is not an area code.
[52:35.890 --> 52:36.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wait, I'm sorry.
[52:36.550 --> 52:36.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: It is.
[52:36.890 --> 52:37.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a new one.
[52:37.590 --> 52:38.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, it is.
[52:38.390 --> 52:38.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Washington.
[52:39.030 --> 52:39.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's Washington?
[52:40.110 --> 52:41.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, it must be a new one in Washington.
[52:42.010 --> 52:43.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so you have a list of all area codes there.
[52:44.330 --> 52:44.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Most of them.
[52:45.050 --> 52:46.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Some of the new ones we don't have yet.
[52:46.510 --> 52:46.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[52:46.790 --> 52:48.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: There are a few that are coming in that we don't have.
[52:49.230 --> 52:50.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: But basically, we do.
[52:50.590 --> 52:55.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: The one that has the complete list is your long-distance service operator.
[52:55.330 --> 52:55.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: I see.
[52:55.830 --> 52:58.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if I just dial, say, 0-0, I can get that.
[52:58.430 --> 52:59.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you have AT&T, yeah.
[52:59.990 --> 53:00.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[53:00.510 --> 53:01.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll try that then.
[53:01.170 --> 53:01.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[53:01.690 --> 53:03.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Actually, they don't charge you either.
[53:03.490 --> 53:03.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[53:04.290 --> 53:04.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: I know, it does.
[53:05.070 --> 53:06.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, thanks for the tip.
[53:06.490 --> 53:09.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, you get more from them because they have more access.
[53:09.790 --> 53:10.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: They deal with that.
[53:10.510 --> 53:11.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: We only deal with...
[53:11.570 --> 53:11.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[53:11.910 --> 53:15.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, as my local operator, insisted on transferring me to information.
[53:15.170 --> 53:16.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: She seemed very eager to do that.
[53:16.210 --> 53:16.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've had information.
[53:16.950 --> 53:17.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[53:17.490 --> 53:18.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: She only has the stuff...
[53:18.610 --> 53:21.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: See, what people don't understand is we're two different companies now.
[53:21.910 --> 53:32.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're actually only handle the stuff in the metropolitan area and the AT&T and all those other companies do the long-distance, so we don't have those records.
[53:32.850 --> 53:33.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[53:33.190 --> 53:33.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's what I thought.
[53:34.010 --> 53:35.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, what you say makes a lot of sense.
[53:35.930 --> 53:38.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: It does, and what we do is we have some area codes, you know.
[53:39.010 --> 53:39.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[53:39.510 --> 53:40.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: But we're not...
[53:40.810 --> 53:41.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: I couldn't...
[53:41.390 --> 53:45.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Like, I had a customer before wanted to know where Calgary was in Canada.
[53:45.610 --> 53:46.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's in a Providence.
[53:46.710 --> 53:51.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know, but if he had called his record long-distance, she would have been able to tell him, but I can't.
[53:51.630 --> 53:52.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wish I could.
[53:52.950 --> 53:53.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[53:54.070 --> 53:54.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[53:54.650 --> 53:55.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, you've been very helpful tonight.
[53:56.030 --> 53:56.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[53:56.570 --> 53:56.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[53:56.810 --> 53:57.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you for the information.
[53:58.110 --> 53:58.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[53:58.470 --> 53:58.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[53:59.650 --> 54:01.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: More helpful than you could possibly know.
[54:01.570 --> 54:01.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[54:01.730 --> 54:01.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[54:02.330 --> 54:05.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the second time I heard an operator refer to a province as a Providence.
[54:05.670 --> 54:06.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: A Providence.
[54:06.350 --> 54:08.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's really something.
[54:08.450 --> 54:19.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, yeah, do you notice how the local operator, it's like policy to transfer you to information where they'll charge you money as opposed to transferring you to the long-distance operator who will charge you nothing and give you more thorough information.
[54:20.010 --> 54:24.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just glad that information operator had the honesty to tell us that at great length.
[54:25.030 --> 54:25.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: She was really friendly.
[54:26.190 --> 54:26.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: She certainly was.
[54:26.990 --> 54:28.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: She should sell ISDN.
[54:28.270 --> 54:29.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: But considering that...
[54:30.290 --> 54:31.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: She probably knows what it means, too.
[54:32.150 --> 54:40.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Considering that you pay 45 cents for partial information, you know, you have to wonder.
[54:40.570 --> 54:41.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You should call 211 now.
[54:42.070 --> 54:42.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And get credit for that.
[54:43.010 --> 54:43.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Get the credit.
[54:43.590 --> 54:46.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't have time for all these conversations with phone company people.
[54:46.250 --> 54:51.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's go back to our loyal listeners here who have been waiting for a long, long time to be on the air.
[54:51.550 --> 54:52.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[54:52.190 --> 54:52.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: You made it.
[54:54.410 --> 54:54.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi.
[54:54.930 --> 54:55.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[54:55.330 --> 54:55.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[54:56.610 --> 54:56.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi.
[54:56.930 --> 54:57.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm on the air.
[54:57.690 --> 54:58.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, you are.
[54:59.210 --> 54:59.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[54:59.710 --> 55:00.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hold on a second.
[55:00.570 --> 55:01.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm having a problem here.
[55:01.910 --> 55:02.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let me lower down the radio.
[55:02.830 --> 55:03.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a good idea.
[55:06.170 --> 55:06.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[55:06.610 --> 55:12.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think when he reached to lower down the radio, he actually lowered down the phone because he's not there anymore.
[55:12.290 --> 55:13.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's another one.
[55:13.210 --> 55:13.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[55:13.610 --> 55:14.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[55:14.450 --> 55:14.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hello.
[55:14.970 --> 55:15.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hi.
[55:15.450 --> 55:18.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: I was on before, but I forgot to ask another question.
[55:18.570 --> 55:19.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Make it quick.
[55:19.250 --> 55:42.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've often argued with the telephone company operators that when a street phone is full of money, you can't put money in, they should then allow the public to make all calls free until they come and repair the thing because they're denying the public the use of that telephone box just because they haven't gotten around to collecting their money.
[55:42.210 --> 55:48.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's true, but would you say the same thing for all credit card phones, phones that don't take coins in the first place?
[55:48.610 --> 55:53.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, everything you can do from a credit card phone you can do from a coin phone without using coins.
[55:53.670 --> 55:58.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you can still make 800 calls, 950 calls, calls through the operator, that kind of thing.
[55:58.290 --> 55:59.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, I agree.
[55:59.150 --> 56:05.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think coin phones are important even though you have to admit the rates are outlandish especially if you call to another city.
[56:05.270 --> 56:05.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh yeah, yeah.
[56:06.190 --> 56:06.510]  [SPEAKER_19]: Right.
[56:06.510 --> 56:10.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's not like we're really getting a great service from these payphones in the first place.
[56:10.370 --> 56:14.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: A lot of the non- whatever NYNEX weakness is, I find a lot...
[56:14.070 --> 56:20.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: I get the impression that a lot of the other companies that got into the business simply wanted to make money not provide telephone service.
[56:20.990 --> 56:24.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: They seem to have an inferior quality of service and you never get anywhere with them.
[56:24.490 --> 56:25.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is true to a degree.
[56:26.830 --> 56:35.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: To another degree it's true that NYNEX is the company that has to hook these companies up to the actual phone network and they don't always do a very good job.
[56:35.510 --> 56:41.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: They leave the wires exposed sometimes so anybody can just simply plug a phone in and make free phone calls that way.
[56:42.430 --> 56:44.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's why they charge higher rates to make up for that.
[56:44.730 --> 56:46.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a whole big catch-22 sometimes.
[56:46.830 --> 56:47.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[56:47.530 --> 56:48.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, thanks for the call.
[56:48.610 --> 56:49.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to try and move on to somebody else.
[56:50.110 --> 56:50.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[56:50.810 --> 56:51.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on.
[56:51.510 --> 56:51.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[56:52.970 --> 56:56.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a question about security.
[56:57.250 --> 56:57.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[56:59.570 --> 57:08.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been getting phone calls, unsolicited phone calls on Saturday morning, which is kind of a pain in the ass because I'm usually because I'm usually asleep like 9.30 or...
[57:08.750 --> 57:09.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, you'll have to speak up a little bit.
[57:10.150 --> 57:13.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been getting phone calls at 9.30 or 10 in the morning.
[57:13.730 --> 57:13.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[57:14.270 --> 57:18.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: As well as your regular unsolicited phone calls telling you things at, you know, around dinner time.
[57:19.410 --> 57:22.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was wondering if there's anything I could do about this.
[57:22.450 --> 57:24.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, now, what kind of phone calls are these?
[57:24.290 --> 57:24.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are they computers?
[57:25.070 --> 57:25.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: People?
[57:25.770 --> 57:26.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, people.
[57:27.170 --> 57:27.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[57:27.830 --> 57:30.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it the same agency calling you?
[57:30.730 --> 57:39.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Once, actually, the same agency called me back like an hour later and it was the same person, too, and I recognized her somehow.
[57:40.110 --> 57:40.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[57:40.890 --> 57:48.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You need to tell them that you don't want them to call you again and to make sure that they live up to it.
[57:48.730 --> 57:50.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: They call you again, they're in violation of the law.
[57:51.130 --> 57:53.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: So there are laws saying that they...
[57:53.370 --> 57:54.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[57:54.350 --> 57:56.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you tell them not to call you, they cannot call you.
[57:56.950 --> 57:57.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[57:57.710 --> 57:58.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's as simple as that.
[57:58.650 --> 58:11.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think that, uh, what a lot of people should really do is, uh, make really formal complaints to both Ninex and the Public Service Commission to, uh, for Ninex to tariff call rejecting.
[58:11.470 --> 58:17.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Call rejecting is, uh, a service available in other regional Bells, like specifically in Pacific Bell.
[58:17.570 --> 58:20.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's been available there for a number of years now.
[58:20.770 --> 58:25.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's, it's one of the newer features like, uh, call return and repeat call and caller ID.
[58:26.830 --> 58:34.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, technically it's a feature that is available right now if, uh, one were to gain access to their telephone switch and enable it.
[58:35.150 --> 58:38.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: The only reason that it's not offered as a service is that it's not tariffed.
[58:38.470 --> 58:50.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: If it were tariffed, then you could simply get the call from the person you didn't like and add them to a screening list after which they would get a politically correct recording saying that you don't wish to receive calls from them right now.
[58:50.630 --> 58:57.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, is, I wish you could personalize that recording, but is call rejection linked to anonymous call rejection?
[58:58.010 --> 58:58.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: If so, how?
[58:59.210 --> 59:00.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anonymous call rejection?
[59:00.430 --> 59:00.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[59:00.770 --> 59:03.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anonymous call rejection is where you reject calls from anybody that blocks their number.
[59:03.990 --> 59:04.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, right.
[59:04.270 --> 59:05.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Bell Atlantic feature.
[59:05.290 --> 59:06.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's not a Bell Atlantic feature.
[59:07.090 --> 59:07.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a regular feature.
[59:07.970 --> 59:09.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: But that's the only place I know of that's offering.
[59:09.170 --> 59:10.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think they're using it in other parts of the country.
[59:10.890 --> 59:11.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Really?
[59:11.290 --> 59:11.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[59:11.890 --> 59:12.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, no, that's...
[59:12.770 --> 59:14.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: They will be here, I can tell you that.
[59:14.190 --> 59:15.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's a separate feature altogether.
[59:16.370 --> 59:20.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, specifically call rejection is one of the screening list features.
[59:20.910 --> 59:23.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a star six something.
[59:24.370 --> 59:31.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: And basically you maintain a screening list of anywhere from, say, maybe 10 to 30 phone numbers.
[59:33.090 --> 59:36.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: And in some cases in certain areas based on policy.
[59:36.750 --> 59:36.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Only 10 to 30?
[59:37.030 --> 59:39.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: What if there's a lot more people you want to reach out calls from?
[59:39.790 --> 59:45.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: The thing is that people in the entire telephone exchange need to be able to maintain screening lists and it takes space.
[59:46.550 --> 59:51.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can think right off the bat, though, of at least over 100 people calling me.
[59:53.690 --> 01:00:03.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: But also AT&T has a new feature just to close things off where you can now, whenever you get a busy signal overseas, you can continuously dial that.
[01:00:03.450 --> 01:00:04.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right, star 234.
[01:00:04.630 --> 01:00:06.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Star 234, that's kind of weird.
[01:00:06.290 --> 01:00:09.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: How does that tie into local star features?
[01:00:10.070 --> 01:00:11.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think it does at all.
[01:00:11.170 --> 01:00:16.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: What I think is that they probably programmed a translation in every one switch.
[01:00:16.890 --> 01:00:23.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it probably, apparently, because I tried it and my long distance company at home is not AT&T, and it didn't work.
[01:00:23.930 --> 01:00:24.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[01:00:24.230 --> 01:00:29.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Which means either it wasn't programmed, it isn't available yet, or it only works if your long distance carrier is AT&T.
[01:00:29.370 --> 01:00:29.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what they say.
[01:00:30.030 --> 01:00:31.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say it only works if you use AT&T.
[01:00:31.590 --> 01:00:32.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: But it should do something.
[01:00:32.830 --> 01:00:41.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just dial star 2 and I get intercepted with your standard recording, which wouldn't happen if it was a valid code, even if your carrier wasn't AT&T.
[01:00:41.990 --> 01:00:48.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't believe that it's worth $3 a month to be able to simply keep redialing a busy signal overseas.
[01:00:49.590 --> 01:00:50.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Only overseas.
[01:00:50.770 --> 01:00:53.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what, why can't they offer this nationwide as well?
[01:00:54.090 --> 01:00:55.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why does it only have to be overseas?
[01:00:55.870 --> 01:00:57.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Seems kind of wacky to me.
[01:00:57.410 --> 01:00:58.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that I don't know.
[01:01:01.110 --> 01:01:04.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be back again next week with another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:01:04.250 --> 01:01:07.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks everybody for listening and keep those cards and letters coming in.
[01:01:07.850 --> 01:01:13.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our address is Off the Hook care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[01:01:14.210 --> 01:01:16.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein for Phiber Optik.
[01:01:16.370 --> 01:01:17.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: See you next week.