Organic politics and everything else organic.
So tune in every Thursday with me, Shelton Walden, to Walden's Pond here over WBAI 99.5
FM in New York with Angelique Kidjo.
It's 10 o'clock Wednesday night, time for Off The Hook.
For Billy Bone, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, for Billy Bone.
We'll be right back.
And a good evening to everybody.
This is Off The Hook, Emanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday night as we talk
about high technology and the phone system, the internet, and all kinds of other neat
things that are going on out there.
Today is, well, it's not really a momentous day in itself, but it represents a momentous
occasion because it's the first time we've had an opportunity to talk about it.
Farber, do you have any idea what this is about?
You don't?
No.
No.
Okay.
I did some experiments.
I've been wandering around, going into people's homes, and, well, no, this is for the better
good of people, so it's okay.
Were they home at the time?
What difference does that make?
The important thing is I went to experiment on something and...
As long as it furthers science.
Well, yeah, it furthers science, and what's more important, it's interesting to talk about
that on the radio.
I found that in those homes all throughout the New York metropolitan area that I visited
that have stubbornly refused to pay for the touchtone fee, you know, to pay that ransom
demand that the phone company makes, you know, 75 cents a month or whatnot, now that enables
you to have the privilege of having your touchtones recognized by the phone network.
Well, I have found that in all the cases, all the cases that I've experimented with,
touchtones work for everyone now.
This is the day of liberation we have been waiting for, for almost a decade since we
began this struggle.
We have won.
The fight is over.
And I guess we don't have that champagne we were going to bring.
Oh, well, but if anyone can prove me wrong on that, everything I've tested indicates
that the touchtone fee has been abolished.
I mean, I heard it was going to be abolished as of September, but it seems to be gone as
of now.
So if you have a phone that uses touchtones, and you're not paying that touchtone fee,
and you haven't been able to use it to break your dial tone, I think those days may be
at an end.
So that's kind of neat.
That's kind of neat.
What's been happening with you this week?
Let's see.
Playing around with your ISDN?
All kinds of interesting developments with ISDN.
First of all, I ordered or attempted to order caller ID for ISDN, as I said I was going
to.
And I was in fact called back by someone who wasn't really sure what ISDN was, but had
heard of caller ID, and was more than happy to take the order.
Whether or not it was taken properly, I have no idea.
But come tomorrow, I'm supposed to have caller ID in some form or another.
So I guess tomorrow will be interesting.
I would venture to guess it's probably going to be in some other form that you've never
quite seen.
Some form I can't use.
Like your bizarre mangled call waiting that you have, or that I guess that you deliver
when you try calling somebody that's call waiting.
The peculiar problem.
Actually, yeah.
Actually, that problem was tracked down to the hardware that I was using.
And I've been in contact with a colleague with Motorola, who manufactures the device,
who is going to be sending us a prototype of the new firmware revision, in which they're
fervently seeking to fix this problem.
And they're also supposed to provide me with the details on how to utilize the caller ID
delivery function of the terminal adapter.
Which it's obviously one thing to order the service, it's another thing to get the numbers
to be spit out in some form or another that you can use.
Right.
Exactly.
So it should have that capability, but it didn't yet have that capability when the manual
was printed.
So the instructions on how to activate that feature are not in the manual.
But Motorola is looking into this matter.
And they should have something for us, I'm hoping, by tomorrow.
So you're actually involved in how they're setting up these pieces of equipment that
a lot of people will be using in the future.
Yeah, we're really living on the bleeding edge here.
Yeah.
I guess that's one way of looking at it.
Yeah.
Also, we're going to be doing a beta test of U.S. Robotics' new combination courier analog
modem.
It's a V34 V-dot-everything modem, in combination with an ISDN terminal adapter.
And it's not actually out yet, but U.S. Robotics is having a beta testing program, which we're
going to take part in, and review what they're calling the Courier-I modem, for ISDN modem.
And that has, like I said, it has an analog modem built in, and it has options such as
an analog interface for a normal telephone or fax machine as an option, as well as whether
or not you want the network terminating device built in or not, your NT1.
So it should be an interesting product.
Hopefully it won't be too buggy.
We're moving forward with ISDN over 2600, as far as for our NET site.
Currently, we have a 28.8 PPP connection, which is ungodly slow, and subject to all
kinds of disconnects and things like that.
If we can move up to an ISDN, we can achieve 56K, and hopefully have a lot more dependable
service as far as that kind of thing goes.
Sure.
So we'll just have to see if the technology doesn't let us down.
Do you get disconnected often when you're on an ISDN connection?
No, actually.
I found that there's an intermittent problem with the specific hardware that I'm using
in talking with my DMS-100 switch in the central office.
And usually there's a chance that my box resets itself while talking to the switch, usually
when a call first gets set up, and it's usually when a data call first gets set up.
It's an intermittent problem, but otherwise, when I'm connected, I'm on sometimes six,
seven hours at a time.
Never get interrupted.
So it's not really an issue.
Good to hear.
And when you say, when you set up a data call, you mean a data data call or an audio data
call?
I mean an audio call.
Either way, but I mainly make audio calls.
Okay.
All right.
Well, maybe we'll be hearing from Bernie S. in a little while.
He's still in the federal lockup down there in New Jersey.
And I believe the news is that the trial schedule for July 31st will be delayed at least a week,
maybe even two weeks.
We'll have to see about that in the weeks ahead.
And of course, he still could use expert witnesses of all sorts to testify on his behalf.
Bernie S., of course, being the person held down there for over four months now, no bail,
because he possessed a red box and also software, cellular software that could be used to modify
cellular phones.
And in fact, modifying a cellular phone is not something that is necessarily indicative
of a crime.
There are many cases where you might want to have a second phone with the same phone
number, much as you would have a second phone with the same phone number of a regular landline.
So we can't always go by the assumptions that we're given that something is illegal simply
because we're told it is.
So hopefully we'll be hearing from him a little bit later on.
We have this from the Los Angeles Times.
Well, no, not those sounds, but what we have from the Los Angeles Times with a few employees
they have left has to do with 800 numbers.
And you know, 800 numbers are a dying breed.
Soon there will be no more 800 numbers.
They're all going away.
Oh, yeah, there'll be 800 numbers to dial, but there just won't be any to give out.
They're running out.
The area code is exhausted.
That's the official Bellcore term, you know.
It's an exhausted area code, and they have to expand to another one.
And of course, we all know what the second area code will be.
That will be 888, 888 will be the second toll-free exchange.
And this story from the Los Angeles Times, everyone from mom and pop businesses seeking
to bolster sales outside their areas to moms and pops hoping to encourage Junior to phone
home.
Why do they have to write articles like this?
I feel like an idiot.
Toll-free 800 numbers have suddenly become the hottest digits around.
Toll-free numbers are everywhere, propelled by a Federal Communications Commission decision
in 1993 to open them up to competition by letting users take their 800 numbers with
them when they switch long-distance carriers.
The cost of maintaining a toll-free line has dropped from more than $1.50 a minute when
introduced in 1969 to less than $0.25 today.
And now the inevitable is happening.
The well of 800 numbers is starting to run dry.
The seven digits following the 800 can be arranged into 7.8 million usable numbers.
And an increasingly anxious industry is only a few months away from using up the available
lines.
The majority of our customers have been requesting 800 numbers, but demand has been so strong
we have to tell them we can't get any new toll-free numbers, says Carol Lyons, Corporate
Sales Manager for the Inland Desert Security and Communications Company, a commercial answering
service business near Riverside, California.
Everybody and his brother wants an 800 number, says Len Sawicki, Senior Manager for Federal
Regulatory Affairs at MCI Communications Corp.
I think we may run out of 800 numbers by the end of the year.
The run on 800 numbers, fueled by an explosion of pagers, cellular phones, and other communications
devices, may be aggravated by industry hoarding.
For years, enterprising entrepreneurs have snapped up toll-free numbers that spell out
corporate names or slogans in hopes of selling such numbers to big business.
Now small and mid-sized long-distance carriers have filed complaints with the FCC.
They accuse big carriers such as AT&T and MCI of joining in the hoarding by requesting
more toll-free numbers than customers have ordered.
MCI requested 75,000 toll-free numbers in the week of June 5 alone, industry sources
say.
And Kathy M.H.
Wallman, Chief of the FCC's Common Carrier Bureau, says the FCC was auditing several
carriers for abuses.
That's just ugly, hoarding long distance, hoarding 800 numbers.
Such a precious commodity.
You know, something the average person needs.
Is it such a big deal if they're coming out with a whole new area code for toll-free numbers?
Yes, but you see, the new area code is not going to be available until April of next
year.
I don't know why it can't be available sooner.
It should be available now, you know, they could just turn it on and make it available.
But I guess they have to reprogram all the central offices.
Well, they have to program every switch in the country.
Okay.
Recognize it.
So how long does that take to program every switch in the country?
I think there's tens of thousands of them.
Okay.
Well, they all have tens of thousands of employees, you know, so you just tell everybody, you
know, send out some memos somewhere and everybody, you know, everybody does it overnight.
Yeah.
That's so hard.
You know, the problem is, is there's no organization, there's no unity, you know, we should be able
to get on the blower and get every single telephone company employee to implement this
new exchange or new area code.
Bring back the bell system.
Exactly.
That's when things used to work, you know.
So 8888, that's going to be the new toll-free number, as we've said quite a few times.
You know, in the new issue of 2600, we have a complete, and I mean a complete list of
area codes, and Fiber, I'm going to be testing you.
Oh, I don't, I don't really know the new ones yet.
Well, I'll test you on some of the old ones then.
Okay.
And you can test me on some of the new ones.
Okay.
And maybe our listeners will know some of these too.
How about, how about 817?
And you know, for extra credit, you can tell me where the area codes came from, if they
were split, if they're an original area code that came out back, I don't know, back in
the 40s or 50s, whenever they started this.
Yeah.
And tell me where it came from, if it was not an original.
If the memory serves, I think 817 is in Texas.
That's correct.
You're right about that.
Now, you know where it came from.
Let's see.
Or was it an original area code?
I believe it was an original area code.
Well, you're totally wrong.
It was not.
It was, it was a split off of area code 214.
And you know what's interesting about this is that area codes back when they started
had certain meaning to them.
Of course, every, every middle digit had to be either a one or a zero, but if the middle
digit was a zero, that meant that it was the only area code for the entire state.
So for instance, New Hampshire's area code 603, the entire state was 603, Connecticut
203.
However, New York, 212, 516, 518, 315, you see, 716, they all had ones in the middle,
meaning that there was more than one.
What about New Jersey?
201 and 603?
Ah, ah, okay.
I'm glad you, you brought that up.
609 was a split of 201.
201 used to be the area code for the entire state.
And then 908 is another split.
908 is a split of 201.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not 609.
Right.
And yeah, that's, that's, that's how it goes.
California, of course, had a lot of ones, 415, 213, 916, things like that.
Anything you want to test me on?
Sure.
Why not?
Okay.
Here's the issue there.
You're probably practicing on the way here.
Well, no, but I did memorize it.
Okay.
That's a good one.
And we can have listeners involved in this.
I don't know how we'll have listeners involved because they won't know I'm not looking at it.
Where's 360?
360?
That's easy.
That's the new Washington, Washington State.
Okay.
That's a start of this year.
That's an easy one.
They only had one area code there, right?
No, they had 206 and they had, no, 503 is Oregon.
Yeah.
Even 206 was the whole state.
No, it's not.
There's another one.
There's another one.
I don't know.
It's...
Oh, 509.
509.
509.
That's it.
Yes.
Okay.
There's another one.
Our phone number, by the way, is 212-279-3400, so give us a call and tell us what's on your
mind.
And maybe Bernie S will be calling in in a little while, letting us know what's going
on with him.
Are you going to pick one or are you just going to stare at it?
Yeah.
I'll be a wise guy.
Where's 710?
710?
That's not really anywhere.
That's U.S. government.
We're trying to figure out what that one is, actually.
That's the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
Yeah.
FEMA supposedly owns that area code, but we don't know how they use it, what the plans
are to implement it.
So if anyone out there has information on Area Code 710, I'd sure like to know about
it.
Well, if the NSA ever declares martial law and they instate the...
You think they'll tell us then?
Yeah.
I think they'll instate that national area code, and then we'll all know what it's for.
Well, if they instate a national area code, then that means that a whole lot less people
can have phone numbers.
It's not meant for people.
Oh, it's not meant for people.
What's it meant for?
It's meant for FEMA use.
Okay.
It's for states of national...
What would you call it?
National emergency.
National emergency, yeah.
Okay.
Well, let's...
You know, riots in the streets.
Let's ask AT&T.
Okay.
They might have an idea here.
Can I dial a tone, please?
Okay.
Here we go.
We're going to dial 102-88 with our new free touch tones, and ask AT&T where that area code
is and see if they can avoid an answer in this case.
AT&T, to place a call, please dial the number that you are calling now, or for assistance,
say operator now.
Now, you don't have to say operator.
You can hit zero.
Please hold for operator assistance.
Or you can just say operator anywhere in the sentence, I guess.
AT&T, how can I help you?
Hi.
I'm trying to find the location of an area code.
Area code 710.
I think it's one of those new ones.
Okay.
Hold on now.
Thank you.
This is a new area code every day.
710?
Yeah.
It must be very new, because we don't have a record of it.
Well, you know, in my phone book, it says U.S. government, and I'm wondering how the
U.S. government can have an area code, because, you know, they're not a place.
I don't know what Mr. Bill Clinton is doing out there.
What, 710?
No.
I don't know that that's an area code.
My computer is giving no area code for that in the U.S.
Really?
Okay.
So you don't have a record of it there?
Record?
No, sir.
Okay.
Well, thanks for your help.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
What is Mr. Clinton doing?
You want me to call information?
You want me to try 710?
I don't think it's going to go through either, but let's try it.
You know, we don't know until we try.
Dial tone.
Thank you.
Okay, we've gotten to the 710.
555 worked.
1, 2, 1, 2.
Let's see what happens.
Now that's unusual.
We're getting a tone.
Now what company is this?
Let's hit some buttons.
It is invalid.
2BK.
That's MCI.
That is MCI.
I wonder if that's our long-distance carrier kicking in.
I think it is.
Why are they kicking in and giving us a tone?
What are we supposed to do with that tone?
That's kind of unusual.
Well, I'll route the call through AT&T then.
Two can play this game.
Let's see what AT&T gives us.
It won't be a tone, I can tell you that.
So that's a local recording?
Yeah, that's a local toll office recording.
So it's not getting anywhere.
No, it's not getting out.
All right.
Supposing we declare a national emergency.
Right.
I'm not saying we're going to do that.
I'm saying, supposing we did, you know.
And nobody out there has the means of doing this.
Please don't do it.
Would 710 suddenly start working?
In theory, from what I've heard, that's the case, yeah.
That 710 can be switched on in regionalized areas.
Or, if need be, it can be enabled ultimately, however long it takes,
throughout the entire country.
And does that mean all the other area codes are disabled?
I don't know if that would be the case or not.
Interesting.
Why don't we try calling Fort Meade and see if...
What would Fort Meade know about this?
Well, it's a national security agency.
I know who it is, but what, am I going to call the NSA and say,
oh, by the way, can you just tell me, and about a million other people listening right now,
what 710 is?
You never know.
You think they're just going to tell me?
Well, why not?
I don't think I want to get on that list.
They're not going to tell me.
There's no way they're going to tell me.
Well, maybe not, but...
You want to do the talking?
Sure, why not?
Do you have the number?
They're listed.
Okay, I think we're in the 410 area code here.
Is it in 410 now?
I think so.
It's not 301 anymore?
No, 301 split into 410.
Okay.
Some of us are following these things.
Oh, you know, I don't know if this is a good idea,
Oh, you know, this is the problem we're having,
that they want an access code now.
Okay, we can simply bypass that.
Hold on.
We'll get around this in a secret way.
There.
They're good.
They're not good enough for me, though.
I hope you have a pen,
because I'm not writing down their numbers anywhere.
Okay.
I got one.
Hello, I need the number for the National Security Agency,
which I believe is in Fort George Meade.
Agency.
It's also no such agency.
They might be listed that way.
Thank you.
She was so pleasant.
Ooh!
Let's see if they hang up.
Looks like they will hang up.
Some of them give you a second chance.
But I guess they won't.
Okay.
Well, it's in 301 after all.
I was wrong.
Okay.
It's actually still in the 301 area code.
You don't suppose FEMA would be listed in the directory assistance, do you?
Sure, why not?
They're in Washington, D.C.
Yeah.
They should be.
Do you want to ask them instead?
Are you chickening out of the NSA?
Oh, not at all.
But if they're the ones whose supposedly area code it is,
it might be more effective to be asking them.
Well, let's call NSA first.
Okay.
And maybe they just happen to have somebody from FEMA there in the first place.
Yeah.
They're just having dinner.
They hang out.
I don't know.
Okay.
You got to give me this number.
Okay.
301.
Yes.
688-6311.
And please, no other listeners call NSA now.
I'm going off mic.
Can't hear me.
Okay.
You think they're closed?
I don't think they do that kind of thing.
That closing stuff.
Well, I don't think they're doing the answering stuff.
Yep, National Security Agency, folks.
I don't feel very secure.
Do you?
I'm starting to get nervous.
Maybe they're in trouble.
Maybe they need help.
Yeah.
Quick, let's call FEMA.
Yeah, let's call FEMA.
This is a federal emergency if I ever heard one.
Okay.
They're probably in D.C., so what we're going to do is go over to Washington, D.C.
and ask them for the number for FEMA.
Do you have your pen ready?
Yes, I do.
This is Tracy with City Police.
Yes, in D.C.
I'm looking for the number for the Federal Emergency Management Association, I believe.
FEMA?
F-E-M-A?
Agency.
Agency.
F-E-M-A?
Yes.
FEMA.
FEMA.
FEMA.
FEMA.
FEMA.
FEMA.
FEMA.
FEMA.
FEMA.
What does that stand for?
Federal Emergency Management Agency.
Cool.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you for calling.
Call FEMA, please.
Do you want the Emergency Action Officer or do you want general information?
Something will be open now.
Probably both of them because they've both got 24-hour on call.
Okay, either one then.
Okay, is it an emergency or is it just you want the call?
No, it's for information.
Yeah, general info.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you, sir.
Thank you.
The number is...
She was bubbly, wasn't she?
...02-646-2500.
Repeat, the number is 202-646-2500.
Think they'll hang up?
Yeah, they're going to hang up too, aren't they?
Used to be they always said if you need more information...
Stay on the line.
...stay on the line and an operator will come back.
But, you know, those days are over.
All right.
Well, now let's bring this to a close and find out once and for all what the 710 area code is all about.
The number is what, 202?
202-646-2500.
Going off mic again.
You're doing the talking?
Okay.
Management agency?
Yeah, hi.
Is this the Federal Emergency Management Agency?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
I was looking for some information about a certain area code, area code 710.
I was told that that's used by FEMA for states of national emergency.
I was wondering if that was true or not.
I have no idea.
Hold on.
Okay.
Got a hold here.
FEMA, NECC, Charles Bagwell.
Yeah, hi.
I was looking for some information.
I was told that a certain area code, area code 710, was reserved by FEMA for states of national emergency.
And I was wondering if you could confirm that.
No, I can't.
I'm not familiar with that.
Hmm.
At all.
Do you know if anyone there would know anything about that?
Oh, not at this office at nighttime.
You'd have to call back in the morning and they could help you.
Yeah.
Give you a public affairs number.
Okay.
What would that number be?
Okay, just a moment.
I'll get it for you.
This will be of use to everybody in the room listening.
Okay, that number would be area code 202-646-2500.
4-6-0-0.
4600.
Hmm.
Okay.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Bye-bye.
Okay.
That's the end of that little journey there.
Your responsibility now is to call that number sometime and give us a report.
FEMA Public Affairs.
Yeah.
Does that sound like almost a contradiction in terms?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess so.
Public relations would be the last thing in the world they would be doing during a national emergency.
Well, they want to come off looking good.
In the case of something like TMI, FEMA is the one that steps in and they're the ones that take the heat if something goes wrong.
Yeah.
FEMA also does things for hurricanes and tornadoes and things like that.
Yeah.
Right.
Earthquakes.
It's always FEMA and they're always having to explain themselves.
So, yeah, they could have a big public relations, public affairs.
There's no real negotiating with a tornado.
No, there isn't, but it's the aftermath.
They have to clean up and rescue people and feed people and things like that.
Right.
And explain why they didn't do it right.
That's really what their job is.
Okay.
212-279-3400.
Let's take some phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on.
I'm on.
Why?
Why?
Why me?
Every damn time.
Okay.
Yes, what's up?
How are you doing?
Hey, here we are.
How are you doing?
I just want to mention that there are 9x pay phones that have different telephone numbers
than the phone numbers that are the actual pay phone when you dial 958.
There are 9x pay phones that have different phone numbers.
Yes.
Okay.
There are 9x pay phones that have different phone numbers than the numbers that you get
when you dial 958?
In other words, I'm in Manhattan.
I see a pay phone in Manhattan that has a 718881 number on it, but the real number is 212-840.
Well, it sounds like they moved the pay phone from 718 and neglected to take the thing off.
Yeah, I think that would be called wrong.
Yeah.
Right.
I just wanted to mention that a lot of co-cots are having these coin returns that are like
you can't push.
You know how it says push for a coin?
Mm-hmm.
You push.
You know, you don't push it.
It's like when you get the quarterback, it sort of slides out.
You have to see it to really know.
Let's just go and see it.
Also, I'd like to mention that there's a number, a sex line number that I'd like to tell people
that when you call it, it asks you for your phone number that you're calling from, but
yet when you give them a different number than what you're calling from, it says,
we're sorry, you're not calling from that number.
Please dial us by using 10555.
Really?
If you want to try it, I'll give you the phone number.
It's a long distance call.
It's area code 305.
That's Florida.
Right.
The Miami area.
I know that.
926-4600.
I hope you wrote that down, Fiber.
Yeah, I got it.
You're writing down numbers tonight.
They'll star, and then they'll ask you to enter your phone number.
Enter your phone number.
It's going to want to call you back collect.
And even if your phone number's blocked, it still calls you back collect.
I did this on a pay phone.
And when it calls you back collect, does it ask you if you want to accept the call?
Yes, it does.
It tells you to dial a number, a digit.
Oh, you know, I didn't try if you don't dial a digit.
I didn't try that.
Why don't you try that?
Why don't you try that?
No, it's just your idea.
I'll do it from three-way.
Do you want to hold?
Sure, okay.
This will be fun.
We could actually hear an expensive collect phone call.
Emmanuel, are you there?
Yes.
Are you there?
Yes.
Okay, now I'm going to enter your number.
I'm entering your number now.
Okay.
To access our hot new service, you need to call us back at the number you just called.
But dial 1-0-5-5-5 first.
Trust me, it's worth it.
So hang up and call us back at 1-0-5-5-5-1-3-0-5-9-2-6-4-6-0-0.
That's a different voice.
Goodbye for now.
They put a different voice into the phone number.
Yeah, and what happens is that if I dial the 1-0-5-5-5,
apparently it goes through Will Tell and it has ANI or caller ID or something.
If I actually dial star, you know what?
I'm going to try dialing star-6-7-plus.
Well, what happens if you enter your phone number?
It will call.
It will say, I'd like to call you back.
Why don't you try that?
We'll mute out your phone number so that won't go over.
All right, hold on and let me see if I can...
Trust us.
Okay.
It's worth it.
Yes.
Hold on, let me see how I can do this.
Do you hear the doubt and suspicion in his voice?
Hold on.
I just don't want to disconnect, that's all.
No, you don't want that.
Hold on.
Yeah.
Well, that would be great advertising for Will Tell.
Well, Will Tell has had some bad advertising in the past.
Yeah, or none at all.
Well, they're the ones that had that Canadian fiasco.
They still do.
What's the Canadian fiasco?
Hang on.
Yes, go ahead.
Careful, left digit.
To access our hot new service, you need to call us back...
It didn't do it.
Oh, it's not working.
All right, listen, we have Bernie S. coming in, I think,
so we've got to try and get him.
Hi.
Yes, go ahead.
This is Locktel.
You have a collect call from...
Bernie S.
And that's some pervert, so...
Accept the call.
Please dial 9 now.
Uh-oh.
I don't have...
Accept this call.
Hang up now.
Oh, boy, we have a problem here.
Let's hope he doesn't hang up.
Locktel, you have a collect call from...
Please go ahead.
You are now connected.
Yo.
Good evening.
How you doing?
You know what?
I had to just go through to get a 9 to go across the phone line.
Uh-oh.
Because the panel here doesn't have touch tones,
so I had to patch a line together and throw a 9 across
before you hung up.
You can carry around a portable touch tone dialer.
That would be nice,
except I hear people get in trouble for having those things.
So what's new with you?
Well, what's new is the government has, at the last minute,
dumped about 500 or 600 pages of what they call discovery material
on my attorney.
That sounds familiar.
That sounds very familiar.
It didn't happen to Fiverr here.
Yeah, exactly.
Something just like that.
Well, when did they dump it on you?
They dumped it on my attorney late last week,
who express-mailed it here to the federal prison
because he had to go out of the country for three days,
which was something he had planned prior to representing me.
And he sent it here, and the Bureau of Prisons, in its wisdom,
decided they didn't know what to do with this package marked
urgent attorney mail open in presence of inmate only,
and they sent it back to him.
So days are drawing closer to my trial,
and I still don't have this paperwork.
So I feel like my mail is being interfered with.
So wait, he sent it to you, and they didn't deliver it to you?
They sent it back to him.
Why'd they do that?
Nobody here seems to know.
That's unbelievable.
I think he should definitely file some motions based upon that.
When I talked to the administrator here,
he told me that this is not unusual for BOP.
I said, well, it may not be unusual, but it is unacceptable.
So it's going to be resent,
and I'm hopeful that it won't be rejected a second time.
Have you talked to him since this happened?
Yes, I talked to him today, and he's resenting it again today.
He got it yesterday.
Is he livid with rage?
Well, he's confused as to why they rejected it.
There was a cryptic message written on the label saying,
must be approved by BJS.
But nobody here at the prison administration knows who or what BJS is.
BJS?
BJS, as in Bravo, Juliet, Sierra.
Interesting. Any idea, Farber?
I've never heard of that.
It's probably someone's initials, but no one has those initials down here.
Meanwhile, we had a stabbing in the housing unit today,
and there was blood everywhere.
Wow. How serious?
Well, the guy will live, it looks like,
but he had multiple stab wounds and lacerations.
Is there much violence in that place?
No, not a lot.
This is the second incident like that since I've been here.
Naturally, the other one was out in the recreation yard.
This was right in my own housing unit, about 20 feet from where I was standing.
Drake's a little too close to home.
It's not the rule that things like that happen.
Yesterday there was a big incident involving a telephone,
but there's a guard's phone in each housing unit.
It's really accessible to inmates as well.
It's on this kiosk, but inmates aren't supposed to touch it.
Anyhow, someone figured out that the emergency code was dialing 222,
and it causes all the guards from all over the compound to run to that particular housing unit
where the extension is to see what life or death situation is in need of attention.
Someone just discovered that?
Someone discovered that and dialed 222,
and about 20 guards came running in here and they realized it was a false alarm.
So we were punished by having our dinner being sent to dinner last,
which means there's no food left.
Wow. Three digits and you get that kind of response.
That's something.
Don't dial 333.
I have no idea what that is.
I don't want to know.
Yeah, who knows.
Wow.
So any luck with the quest for expert witnesses?
We're looking for a suitable expert witness.
We have a couple of people tentatively scheduled,
but one of them, both of them, it's questionable as to whether they will be free at the date of my trial,
which still hasn't been set.
It's supposed to be sometime in mid-August now.
It was originally scheduled for the 31st of this month,
but due to this last-minute stunt,
the government dropped several more hundred pages of documents on us to have to review.
We had to ask for a one-week extension,
and the prosecutor had a trial the following week,
so we have to make it two weeks.
I see.
Fiber, tell us something about when they dropped all the evidence on you.
How soon before your trial would have begun did this happen,
and what did you do with it?
Because of the volume of the information,
it was practically a year that we spent preparing for trial on both sides.
They also have just now provided us access to about 350 megabytes of data on the hard drive of one of my computers,
and they said that they're going to use some information on this hard drive against me.
They're not saying what specifically.
So they said that it would be too hard to print it all out,
but they could copy it all onto floppy disks.
Well, that's just great.
What do you have over there?
ThinkPad?
No, they're not allowing me any access to a computer to analyze this information.
So how do they expect you to look at it?
I don't think they want me to.
So they're saying they have evidence against you,
but they're not giving you any opportunity to see the evidence.
They don't specify exactly what it is they're going to use against you.
They just give you everything they're considering,
and then you have to be prepared for any eventuality in the courtroom.
So I guess I'm forced with having to be familiar with 350 megabytes of programs and data before my trial
without having any access to a computer, which is a good trick.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Well, the big difference, of course, is that Faber was not in prison when he had to prepare for his case, and you are.
I envy him, although I don't envy him in how things turned out,
but I envy him having the opportunity to at least look stuff over ahead of time.
Any progress in the quest to get bail?
I may receive word, or my attorney may receive word tomorrow from the clerk of courts
as to whether a pretrial release hearing will be held before my trial or not.
If it's held the day of my trial, then obviously it's a moot point, but the judge is sleeping on it,
so we'll find out possibly tomorrow if the judge will decide to have a pretrial release hearing prior to my trial date.
It may give me, at best, just a few days of freedom prior to my trial to prepare last-minute things
and prepare myself psychologically, but that would be better than nothing.
Yeah, well, hopefully, do they move quickly on these things if they do decide to have a hearing?
Well, they tend to drag their feet, it seems, in making the decision whether they're going to have it or not,
and once they make the decision to have it, yeah, it goes through pretty quickly, usually,
but they haven't made the decision yet. It's up to the judge.
I see. Is there anything people out here can do to help?
Well, with all this latest stuff, I've been feeling pretty depressed,
so if anybody can write me cards, letters, notes of encouragement, that would be very helpful.
Just maintaining an even emotional state here is pretty difficult with all this going on.
I'm extremely frustrated with having to help put together a very complicated technical defense
without having any access to resources that one would need to do that.
So, yeah, any letters of encouragement would be helpful.
Okay. You want to give out your address?
Sure. My name is Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, 48919-066,
and that's at F-C-I, as in Federal Correctional Institution, Fairton, F-A-I-R-T-O-N,
A-Left, PO Box 420, and that's in Fairton, F-A-I-R-T-O-N, New Jersey, 08320.
And with any luck, the Bureau of Prisons and its wisdom will not return the mail to the sender
like they just did with my legal mail.
Okay. We will send out the mail that you've gotten at the Internet site, too.
Oh, great.
If people want to write to that site, you can write to it, BernieS, B-E-R-N-I-E-S, at 2600.com.
That's 2600.com.
And just keep in mind that the prison authorities do read everything.
Yes, don't forget that.
So keep that in mind when you communicate, and we will forward that over to you.
Do you want to stick around for some phone calls?
Sure.
Okay. 212-279-3400 is our number.
If people want to call in, say hi to BernieS and ask us questions or give comments, please do so.
Good evening. You're on.
Go ahead.
Hi. I was calling to talk about cellular phones.
One case...
You sure you want to talk about cellular phones?
No, no, no. That's not a joke.
What happened is I went to Atlanta, and my phone was off.
I just carried it with me.
For some reason, I started dialing a phone number, and it started working.
It autonomously dialed a telephone number?
Yeah. I mean, it wasn't connected. It had no service.
But when I went to Atlanta, it started working.
Oh, you were able to dial numbers when you were in Atlanta, but you weren't able to dial in New York.
No, I wasn't.
Okay. So it wasn't activated in New York, but when you got to Atlanta, you could use it to make calls.
Right, right, right. Why is that? Why does that tend to happen?
Well, evidently, the Atlanta cellular system was having trouble with its...
Operator?
Yeah. Who are you?
Hello, operator?
Yeah. Yes, operator. What can I do for you?
Is this an operator online? Hello?
Okay. Why don't you continue with your explanation?
9-3-4-100. This is 9X with an emergency call from Bernie. Will you accept it?
Do you have the phone number that Bernie is calling from?
Yes, I do.
You want to tell us what it is?
It's too late. I'm not permitted to.
Are you not permitted to?
No.
Well, tell them that they're interrupting...
Do you have my permission?
No, they don't. No, they can't do that. They're interrupting the legitimate phone call here.
That they what?
They're interrupting a nationwide radio program by doing this and causing great problems to everybody.
So tell them that, please.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Actually, I was lying when I said it was nationwide. It's not nationwide yet.
Caller, are you still there?
Yes, I am.
I apologize for that.
No problem. It's all right.
Some person doesn't...
Probably the FBI.
...doesn't know manners, you know, and they have to be taught.
Anyway, that cost him a good three bucks to do that, I think, though.
Probably the government.
Anyway, Bernie, continue, the real Bernie, continue with your explanation.
Yes, the real Bernie, please stand up.
It sounded like...
It sounds like the Atlanta cellular system that you were using down there
did not have its real-time validation system working.
In other words, whenever you make a cellular call, it sends its...
The phone sends its electronic serial number and phone number to the nearest cell site,
and then the system ostensibly will analyze that serial number and phone number pair for that phone
to determine if it's a legitimate number that belongs to someone who has paid his bill
and has a valid account and so forth.
It sounds like that part of the system was down,
and it wasn't able to check to see if you had a valid number or a stolen number
or a number that was shut off for nonpayment
and just allowed the call to go through as a default.
So you mean at that time, anybody could just sort of go down to Atlanta
and make phone calls if they had a cellular phone?
Well, that could be the case, or...
I'm sure the Atlanta system has a roaming agreement with the New York system,
depending on what carriers are involved.
Well, Cellular One is in New York, but Cellular One is a different company in Atlanta.
Right.
Whatever cellular carrier, the wireline or the nonwireline carrier your phone was connected to in Atlanta
must have a roaming agreement with the Cellular One carrier in Atlanta.
I know that.
But also, another thing is that when I flew to St. Louis from Atlanta to come back to New York,
I had to switch flights.
But when I flew to St. Louis, I was working in St. Louis.
And then I flew from St. Louis to Washington, D.C. to change my flight,
and it wasn't working in Washington.
And you did all this just to find out how the phone was working, huh?
I don't know the truth.
No, but that's what happened all in a period of about three days.
Excuse me, emergency interrupt 279-3400.
Do you have the number that...
Calling is Emmanuel Goldstein.
Do you have the number they're calling from?
I'm sorry, we're not allowed to do that, sir.
You're not allowed to do that.
You're allowed to interrupt a 50,000-watt radio station in the middle of a call-in show,
but you're not allowed to give out a phone number.
I think that is typical of the bureaucrats in office today, the Democrats in Washington, D.C.,
and that is why we have to have a revolution in this country to overthrow this kind of thing.
Don't you agree, Rush?
Oh, I'm sorry.
I got carried away there.
Okay.
If we can continue with the explanation, Bernie.
Well, it appears that some of the carriers he was roaming on didn't have their real-time validation working.
There's a network protocol called IS-41 that is supposed to connect all of the cellular carriers together
so they can exchange one minute to go.
That's your one-minute warning, okay.
Exchange account information to find out whether a particular phone number
and serial number for any given phone making a call is permitted to actually make calls.
But evidently these systems aren't all connected properly yet or working flawlessly,
so that's why someone can use a phone that's been deactivated in one area in another area.
Now, ostensibly the cellular carrier will have to eat that, the charge for that call,
but typically they will write it off at $1 a minute and repudiate tax benefits in doing so.
Bernie, let me just break in here.
Give me a call after the show, okay?
Okay.
Because I've got to tell you a couple of things.
About five minutes afterwards?
Yeah, no more than that if possible.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you, guys.
Thanks a lot for calling, and thanks, Bernie, for answering that question.
Thank you, Ernie.
All right.
Good night, because I'm going to get cut off any second now.
Okay.
But thanks for everyone who's written me.
It's helped out a lot, and please keep sending those letters.
Okay.
Best of luck.
Thank you.
All right.
We'll be in touch.
Bye-bye.
It's Bernie S. down there in Ferryton, New Jersey, talking to us live from federal prison.
And, you know, that's the real Bernie S you just heard, the guy that just likes to answer
questions and talk about high tech and the cellular systems and how they all interrelate
and things like that, much the same way you used to do with other forms of technology.
Sure.
Why is that considered such a dangerous thing?
You know, these are the people with the answers, people who think and come up with new ideas.
Anyway, let's go back to the phones.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on.
Oh, beautiful.
Hi.
How are you?
Okay.
Yourself?
I'm fine.
All right.
No complaints.
This is my first call with TouchTone service.
Really?
So it does work for you, too, huh?
Yes.
Wow.
Isn't this a glorious day for all of us?
I was jumping.
You sound totally...
And when I dialed in, it worked.
I was like, oh, amazing.
Actually, I kind of had a feeling something weird was going on the other day.
Yeah, I've had that feeling for quite some time.
Well, about three days ago, you know, my modem seems to automatically detect whether to dial
pulse or TouchTone.
And so, you know, when I do ATDS to dial the stored number, it seems to dial pulse automatically.
But the other day, it just stopped doing that.
So apparently, they switched it over about three days ago.
And there you go.
There you go.
Beautiful.
Well, I don't want to impede your TouchToning, so perhaps you'll just want to TouchTone away
and dial things faster and speedier.
What a concept.
And more musically than you did before.
Welcome to the 60s.
Yes.
Good night.
See you later.
That's it, all right.
Boy, I guess people all over the land, all over 9x land are celebrating tonight.
Yes, it's true.
If you don't pay for TouchTones, it doesn't matter anymore.
Your TouchTones will work.
But for all of us that have been paying for TouchTones for years, do we get a big fat refund?
You are entitled to get every penny of that back.
Really?
That's in my world.
But in 9x world, I don't think they're going to say anything about it at all.
Want to sue?
If you don't like it, sue.
That's my advice.
Well, I can't complain anymore because I have ISDN and there really is no such thing as TouchTone service.
Ah, there you go.
Yeah, I guess they can't make you ignore TouchTones on ISDN, can they?
Who knows what they can impose on there.
They still charge you, though, to be unlisted.
That's the biggest thing.
They charge you to be unlisted and they charge you to have a gold number.
Month by month.
You pick a number and you've got to pay maintenance fees for the number every month.
Three bucks or something like that.
Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
Oh, good, I got you.
Yes, you did.
I have a lot of time to donate to, for instance, the Bernie Yes trial because I took Monday off.
I gave 751-2600 a call.
I left my name.
I don't know if you heard me.
I've called actually several times.
I might not have heard you myself.
Someone else in the office might have, but what exactly are you offering?
Okay, not only my expertise.
I've been through the mill on similar things, but also my time as well to come.
I'd like to have a little chance to describe it off the air.
I also have some contributions later on to your show.
I've been a volunteer for your show, by the way.
Oh, really?
Great.
Basically, I guess what Bernie needs at this point is a link of any sort to someone who can stand up in court
and be an expert witness to prove that what he was accused of was not a crime in any way.
Yes.
Hello, I've been following it.
Is there any way I could reach you or FiberOptic?
Did you see a number, a New Jersey number?
Well, let's see.
You want to be able to reach us to talk about the case?
Yes, or maybe if you could give me a call.
Did you see a 201 number?
Well, if you left it on the machine, yeah, we've got it someplace.
It's just a question of when we can get back to you exactly.
Okay.
I think it was near the end of the tape, but please pay attention to a 201.
Okay.
It's catch as catch can.
Okay.
Are you on the net at all?
No, no way.
I don't have room for a computer, believe it or not.
Okay.
Because that's actually the quickest way to get a hold of people these days.
I can't do it.
I have so many soldering irons, so much test equipment.
You're talking about somebody who's got antique automobiles in his bedroom.
Well, maybe you have one there and you don't know it.
What?
With all the soldering equipment, you might have built one by accident.
No, actually I have a computer, but I cannot stretch it out.
I cannot unpack it and even try to use it.
Lay it out on the front lawn or something.
What?
Put it outside.
Yeah, because just be receptive.
Pay attention to a 201-74 number, Phil.
I'll leave my number again if necessary, and please give me a call back.
Okay.
Just to make absolutely sure, why don't you leave a message again?
Yeah, I will do.
That way we'll know for sure who you are.
Is your tape empty now?
It was full to net today.
It was full for a while, but I think it's empty now.
But then again, it might be full.
It's hard to say.
It doesn't matter.
I'll give it a call and I'll do it again.
Okay.
And, you know, please catch me, catch as catch can.
Thank you.
Okay.
What does that mean, anyway?
I'm not sure.
Okay.
212-279-3400.
We're very bad at returning phone calls.
Yeah.
But you don't believe how many phone calls we get.
It's pretty insane sometimes.
Good evening.
You're on.
Last week, after you mentioned Nuts and Faults.
Yes?
I called them up to subscribe, and they told me that they got a whole bunch of calls that day.
Oh, really?
I told them that it was strictly PAI and off the hook, and they were glad to hear it.
Oh, that's great.
That's good to know that we're helping them.
Heck, you have a lot of influence here.
They said they got four calls besides mine that morning from Brooklyn, and they never had anything like that happen before.
Uh-huh.
You don't happen to have their number handy, do you?
No, I don't.
I got it from you last week.
Yeah.
I don't have it handy myself.
I think it was an 800 number, though, right?
Yeah, it was.
Okay.
So if you call 800-INFORMATION and ask for Nuts and Faults, I'm sure you'll get a number that way.
They were duly impressed.
Okay.
That's good to know.
Okay.
Thank you a lot.
Thanks.
Bye.
It's always nice to hear the power that we have here, the power to influence things, the power to get people angry, the power to make people happy.
You know, anything is possible.
212-279-3400.
And, of course, you can make people happy by writing to them when they're in prison.
You can help influence the outcome by tracking down people that can lend their expertise.
If you can do that yourself, certainly we want to hear from you as well.
And if you want to leave us a message, as the gentleman who called before wants to do, obviously,
you can call the 2600 office, 516-751-2600, and get a hold of us that way
or just leave a message there telling us what you want to do.
And let's take a couple more phone calls.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on.
Hi.
Yeah.
Yes, go ahead.
I want to know more about Fiber's ISDN telephone bill.
What does the bill actually look like?
Ah, good question.
Yeah, it's a very good question.
Actually, it comes as a normal phone bill, only when it breaks down exactly what your service is.
You have services with slightly different names.
If you're talking about the month-to-month bill, you would typically have,
if it itemizes your basic exchange service, you would have, I believe,
a $10 ISDN basic exchange charge for the digital line itself.
And then depending on the services that you ordered, for example, in my case,
I have one line with circuit switch data only.
The other B channel on the same exact phone line is alternate circuit switch voice and data capability.
And each of those are $2 additional.
So that's $4.
And then there's charge for the actual phone service.
They bill you for the voice service on one of your B channels as if it was a normal telephone line.
So there's the addition of that, which is somewhere around, what is that, like about $20 for a phone line?
Yeah, it's about that.
Yeah.
In the $20 range.
Yeah.
If you make data calls, and I'm speaking, otherwise you're billed normally.
If you're making voice calls, you're billed what the normal voice rate is for residential if you're a residence.
Except for all intents and purposes, you actually have two voice lines.
Yeah, it's almost like having two lines for the price of one.
And if you make data calls, you're billed a penny a minute, and that's itemized.
And if you want to look up the tariff, if you're interested,
you're billed according to the 9x switch ways tariff.
Plus, depending on the hardware you have, you can have all kinds of features that you would not normally have on a phone line.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, don't underestimate the voice capabilities of ISDN, which I'm not really taking advantage of at the moment.
But you can order all sorts of supplementary services.
You said you can avoid that penny a minute charge by going to 66 instead of 64 or something like that?
Yeah, using most terminal adapters.
Those are analogous to a modem for ISDN.
Most terminal adapters nowadays allow you to originate an audio call, an audio bearer call.
And what that's normally used for is narrow band voice signaling at 3.1 kHz.
You have 30 seconds to wrap this up, by the way.
You can send 56-kilobit data over that audio path.
And since it's an audio call and not technically a data call, you aren't billed a penny a minute that's associated with a 64-kilobit data call.
So that's what that is.
Okay.
And we'll be updating people on that more as we learn more about it ourselves and experiment more with it.
But for now, I don't know.
I wonder if ISDN connections have gone up a lot in the last couple of months since we started doing this.
We'll just have to see.
Yeah.
Thanks for being with us tonight.
Thanks to everybody who called in.
We'll be back again next week and the weeks after, Wednesday nights from 10 to 11.
And we'll see you then for another edition of Off The Hook.
This is Emanuel Goldstein for FiberOptic and Bernie S.
Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would, for Billy Bond, for the best you'd expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, for Billy Bond.
Good evening.
In the news tonight, in Philadelphia, death row inmate Mumia Abu-Jamal returns to the courtroom.
In Washington, top law officials portray David Koresh as an untrustworthy egomaniac.
The Senate votes to lift the arms embargo against Bosnia,
and WBAI producer Errol Maitland investigates as he grieves his son's death
at the hands of store security guards in Spartanburg, South Carolina.
What I've heard in the community is that many mysterious deaths have happened to young black male in their prime,
and nothing has come of it.
They've been accidental or no cause of their death has been found.
I will not let my son die as a hog in the street without some justice coming from him.
With these and other stories, I'm Amy Goodman in New York with Verna Avery Brown in Washington,
and this is the news for Wednesday, July 26, 1995.
First to the Pacifica National News.
U.N. Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali has given up his veto power over NATO airstrikes,
delegating that key to the head of the U.N. peacekeeping force in Bosnia,
U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke.
The civilian son of a