Off The Hook - 1995-08-16

[00:01.780 --> 00:14.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: In his bitterness, the poet rebuked her and said to her, Lovely fame, even in the highways and the byways, you have not forborne to laugh and shout and jest with worthless men.
[00:14.980 --> 00:21.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I have toiled for you and dreamt of you, and you mock me and pass me by.
[00:22.880 --> 00:25.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: And fame turned her back on him and walked away.
[00:26.640 --> 00:33.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: But in departing, she looked over her shoulder and smiled at him as she had not smiled before.
[00:34.400 --> 00:44.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Allah, speaking in a whisper, said, I will meet you in the graveyard at the back of the workhouse in a hundred years.
[00:49.670 --> 00:57.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: That was The Assignation by Lord Dunsany, read by Eleanor Elizabeth Foreman.
[01:05.100 --> 01:06.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we thank you so much for doing that.
[01:07.000 --> 01:12.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's 10 o'clock, and live from New York, this is WBAI in New York City.
[01:12.780 --> 01:13.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's time for Off the Hook.
[01:20.640 --> 01:25.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:26.200 --> 01:28.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:28.760 --> 01:30.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now I can't make a call.
[01:31.520 --> 01:33.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't get much worse.
[01:34.420 --> 01:36.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: But if they could, they would.
[01:36.480 --> 01:39.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: But they live on for the best, expect the worst.
[01:39.920 --> 01:41.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope that something is good.
[01:42.080 --> 01:42.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: But they live more!
[02:14.330 --> 02:15.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: And a very good evening, everybody.
[02:15.890 --> 02:16.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:16.970 --> 02:21.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday night, live for the first time in three weeks.
[02:22.750 --> 02:27.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Last week we were preempted for a minithon, and the week before that, well, Phiber, you went to prison again.
[02:28.290 --> 02:28.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[02:29.130 --> 02:29.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: I understand.
[02:30.350 --> 02:31.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just heard rumors about this.
[02:31.890 --> 02:34.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: I understood that there wasn't an announcement made that it was a repeat.
[02:34.930 --> 02:41.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I left specific instructions saying, make sure you say that that's a repeat, that he's not going off to prison again.
[02:42.770 --> 02:44.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I don't know if that actually happened.
[02:44.690 --> 02:49.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: If it didn't happen, I apologize, and I hope people didn't go crazy thinking that it was all happening again.
[02:50.010 --> 02:51.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm glad it didn't.
[02:51.850 --> 02:52.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[02:52.490 --> 02:55.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Imagine turning on the radio and hearing your last show before you go to prison.
[02:55.930 --> 02:56.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[02:56.450 --> 02:59.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: That was taped in January of 1994.
[03:00.230 --> 03:00.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, it was.
[03:01.070 --> 03:03.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, and hopefully that won't be reoccurring.
[03:04.470 --> 03:06.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: We may also be hearing from Bernie S. tonight.
[03:06.930 --> 03:13.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, I've been away since, I guess, about three weeks ago in California, Las Vegas, places like that.
[03:14.410 --> 03:15.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Las Vegas is a vile town.
[03:16.030 --> 03:16.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just got to say that.
[03:17.850 --> 03:21.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's so incredibly... well, it's hot, for one thing.
[03:21.390 --> 03:23.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's always about 120 degrees.
[03:23.630 --> 03:26.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: But apart from that, it's just so phony, you know?
[03:26.290 --> 03:26.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[03:26.550 --> 03:27.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Plus, I got sick, okay?
[03:27.710 --> 03:40.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, if you're going to be sick, Las Vegas is not the town to be in, because everybody's, you know, so happy and jovial and fake, and there's lights flashing around you, and it's... you never know if it's daytime or nighttime.
[03:40.430 --> 03:40.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the idea.
[03:40.930 --> 03:43.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: When you walk through those casinos, you never see a window.
[03:43.330 --> 03:44.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: You never see a clock.
[03:44.490 --> 03:46.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: You never know what day or what time it is.
[03:46.210 --> 03:47.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: The idea is just to stay there forever.
[03:48.550 --> 03:51.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got to bear in mind that the town was basically put on the map by a gangster.
[03:52.590 --> 03:54.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, I could see that.
[03:55.190 --> 03:56.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: I could definitely see that.
[03:56.490 --> 04:04.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although, we flew over today in the airplane, and I was able to look down and actually see the building that I stayed in, you know, because they all have bizarre shapes.
[04:04.450 --> 04:09.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: One looks like a pyramid, and it looked so tiny and insignificant from the sky.
[04:09.630 --> 04:12.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, that was a big comfort to me, just knowing that.
[04:12.870 --> 04:14.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you remember the blue box on the way back?
[04:14.770 --> 04:18.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I didn't play with the air phone at all, because it was a very cramped plane.
[04:18.870 --> 04:19.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Very cramped.
[04:19.590 --> 04:24.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the lady next to me was rather well-endowed, let's put it that way.
[04:24.750 --> 04:29.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: For me to get to the phone would have made for positions I really didn't want to get into.
[04:30.510 --> 04:34.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, it just wasn't worth the attempt, as far as I can see.
[04:35.910 --> 04:38.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, I played with it a lot on the way over.
[04:39.410 --> 04:40.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: I can hardly wait to see my phone bill.
[04:42.150 --> 04:44.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: And made all kinds of bizarre calls.
[04:44.450 --> 04:46.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know you can call information for free, I've mentioned this before.
[04:47.030 --> 04:53.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: But from an air phone, you can call information for free, and, you know, that's kind of a neat little trick.
[04:53.810 --> 05:00.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: You could, I suppose, start a business where you get on an airplane with a list of numbers that people want you to look up.
[05:02.530 --> 05:04.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you charge them 50 cents each.
[05:04.930 --> 05:09.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if you have enough of those, you can spend the whole time on the phone, and it'll pay for your trip.
[05:10.930 --> 05:11.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if Bernie S.
[05:11.890 --> 05:12.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: is here.
[05:12.710 --> 05:13.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie, are you there?
[05:14.450 --> 05:15.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Loctel.
[05:15.250 --> 05:17.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have a collect call from...
[05:17.390 --> 05:18.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bernie S.
[05:20.110 --> 05:23.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: To accept the call, please dial 9 now.
[05:23.930 --> 05:24.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you do not...
[05:25.390 --> 05:26.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please go ahead.
[05:26.730 --> 05:27.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: You are now connected.
[05:28.290 --> 05:30.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie S., are you with us?
[05:30.190 --> 05:30.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[05:30.930 --> 05:31.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you doing?
[05:31.730 --> 05:35.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm doing as well as one can in a federal prison, I suppose.
[05:35.910 --> 05:37.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, I've fallen out of touch.
[05:37.010 --> 05:42.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was away in California, and, you know, we tried having people around the phone to pick up at certain times.
[05:42.950 --> 05:46.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: But when you're in prison, of course, you can never tell when you're going to be able to make a phone call.
[05:46.330 --> 05:46.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Very true.
[05:46.910 --> 05:49.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: So we pretty much missed you 100% of the time.
[05:49.910 --> 05:54.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, actually, we don't have any idea what's been happening with you over the past several weeks.
[05:54.430 --> 05:56.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: During your absence, but it was unsuccessful.
[05:56.190 --> 06:08.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, in any case, I guess you folks haven't been informed that my trial was rescheduled until September 8th.
[06:08.650 --> 06:09.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[06:09.610 --> 06:10.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: So...
[06:10.210 --> 06:12.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: From July 31st to September 8th.
[06:12.290 --> 06:12.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's quite a...
[06:12.830 --> 06:25.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we needed at least another week because the government dropped several hundred additional pages of what's called discovery material or evidence they plan to use against me at the trial.
[06:25.630 --> 06:27.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, have you had a chance to go through these pages?
[06:27.970 --> 06:28.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have.
[06:28.030 --> 06:34.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: They dropped a lot of it on me at the last minute, just a couple of days before July 31st.
[06:34.250 --> 06:38.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, obviously, I needed more time to go over the stuff and figure out what it all meant.
[06:39.830 --> 06:41.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: So we requested a one-week delay.
[06:41.790 --> 06:49.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: The prosecutor said that she would have to delay it for two weeks because she had a trial the following week.
[06:49.510 --> 06:51.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: It would conflict with mine.
[06:51.790 --> 06:57.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: And a judge, in his infinite wisdom, decided to schedule it on September 8th.
[06:58.930 --> 07:00.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: He also...
[07:00.050 --> 07:05.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: The judge also decided that it would be appropriate for me to have another bail hearing.
[07:06.310 --> 07:09.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he, in his wisdom, scheduled that for September 7th.
[07:09.970 --> 07:10.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, wonderful.
[07:11.630 --> 07:14.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you don't get a bail hearing until one day before your trial.
[07:14.850 --> 07:15.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Exactly.
[07:15.830 --> 07:16.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's crazy.
[07:16.630 --> 07:17.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well...
[07:17.190 --> 07:18.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: September 7th, huh?
[07:18.190 --> 07:23.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, I wouldn't presume to tell that to a judge, that he was crazy, but that's the decision.
[07:23.710 --> 07:30.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: The prosecutor has conceded that she no longer feels that I'm a danger to the community.
[07:30.790 --> 07:31.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[07:32.070 --> 07:32.470]  And...
[07:32.470 --> 07:35.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: So why do they have to wait three weeks to get you a bail hearing?
[07:35.770 --> 07:36.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's up to a judge.
[07:36.890 --> 07:40.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Federal judges can pretty much decide what they want to decide.
[07:40.650 --> 07:45.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, if I want to appeal his decision, I can delay things further.
[07:47.030 --> 07:48.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess so.
[07:48.250 --> 07:49.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: You always have that option.
[07:50.030 --> 07:56.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I will have a bail hearing September 7th and a trial September 8th.
[07:56.390 --> 07:58.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: So it'll be a busy couple of days for you, but...
[07:58.490 --> 08:02.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, and the next three weeks or so will be pretty busy planning.
[08:02.410 --> 08:07.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have rounded up at least one expert witness and are trying to find at least another one.
[08:09.270 --> 08:13.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: And gone over some of the technical materials that they've submitted, the prosecution has submitted.
[08:14.330 --> 08:23.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: And sometime in the next week or two, I will actually have the opportunity to physically examine this evidence in person in Philadelphia.
[08:23.430 --> 08:24.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: They'll have to... U.S.
[08:24.910 --> 08:30.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Marshals will have to put me in shackles and chains and transport me by van from South Jersey to...
[08:30.490 --> 08:31.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow, so you get a little field trip, huh?
[08:32.070 --> 08:32.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[08:32.790 --> 08:34.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Get transported in shackles to your hometown.
[08:35.950 --> 08:40.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'll actually be able to look at this equipment that they're saying was...
[08:40.130 --> 08:40.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[08:41.650 --> 08:47.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Possibly... could be intended to... could have been used with intent to defraud.
[08:47.570 --> 08:47.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[08:49.490 --> 08:50.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Interesting.
[08:50.290 --> 08:52.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: So how is your mood holding up in there?
[08:52.070 --> 08:53.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I have ups and downs.
[08:54.030 --> 08:56.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Today I'm feeling reasonably good.
[08:56.750 --> 09:00.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: The diet here has caused me some health problems.
[09:01.890 --> 09:06.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: And unfortunately, the medical staff here doesn't seem to be really up to par.
[09:07.050 --> 09:08.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's a familiar story, isn't it, Phiber?
[09:10.950 --> 09:12.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, I didn't know you were there, Phiber.
[09:12.850 --> 09:13.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, hi.
[09:13.370 --> 09:13.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you, Ed?
[09:13.890 --> 09:14.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh.
[09:14.510 --> 09:15.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I imagine you had...
[09:15.870 --> 09:20.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: I imagine your GI system was thrown out of whack by what you were fed there.
[09:21.450 --> 09:22.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, quite a bit.
[09:22.570 --> 09:28.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, like you said, it wasn't the best eating environment, so we kind of had to make the best of it.
[09:28.370 --> 09:28.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[09:29.430 --> 09:35.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, yeah, I haven't had, uh, I haven't been, uh, as they say, regular for, uh, for several weeks now.
[09:36.710 --> 09:37.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I don't know if we need to...
[09:37.810 --> 09:39.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've always been an irregular kind of guy, but...
[09:39.870 --> 09:40.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[09:40.570 --> 09:43.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't happen to sleep next to a weightlifter, do you?
[09:43.570 --> 09:45.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I'm fortunate to...
[09:46.410 --> 09:53.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: My, uh, my celly, as prison slang goes, or roommate, uh, was just transported out of here this morning.
[09:54.530 --> 10:02.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, he was, uh, brought here about a month ago on, uh, on conversion of government property charges.
[10:02.390 --> 10:07.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: He allegedly borrowed a, uh, tractor from a Navy base, drove it around the block, and brought it back.
[10:07.950 --> 10:12.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, he was apprehended a couple days later when someone, uh, uh, fingered him.
[10:12.370 --> 10:12.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: In any case...
[10:12.870 --> 10:15.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, at least they didn't kill him, like the guy who stole the tank in San Diego.
[10:15.550 --> 10:20.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I, I, I liked that video clip where the police just pointed the gun down inside the tank and blew the guy away.
[10:20.470 --> 10:23.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: That was, that was an inappropriate way of stopping a tank that was already stopped.
[10:23.910 --> 10:24.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[10:24.250 --> 10:24.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Couldn't move.
[10:25.230 --> 10:30.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, uh, this guy had been scheduled, my, my celly had been scheduled for cancer surgery.
[10:30.550 --> 10:47.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: He has, uh, he had rather advanced lymphoma cancer, uh, scheduled for cancer surgery in Philadelphia the day before, uh, or the day after he was arrested, and they delayed his, uh, rapidly advancing, uh, they delayed him getting surgery on this, on this rapidly advancing cancer for nearly a month.
[10:48.130 --> 10:57.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, so this morning they, they transferred him to, uh, Rochester, Minnesota, where there's another federal, uh, prison that happens to be next to the Mayo Clinic.
[10:57.910 --> 11:01.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: So at least he'll be getting some, uh, some decent medical care at the Mayo Clinic.
[11:01.870 --> 11:02.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[11:02.390 --> 11:03.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: I hope it's not too late for him.
[11:04.210 --> 11:05.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: I haven't gotten a new cellmate yet.
[11:05.930 --> 11:07.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: That'll probably happen tomorrow.
[11:07.590 --> 11:07.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, so you...
[11:07.750 --> 11:09.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've gone through six of them since I've been here.
[11:09.450 --> 11:10.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you've got a single now, huh?
[11:10.870 --> 11:11.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, yeah.
[11:11.670 --> 11:14.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I'll, I'll cherish it for all of 24 hours or so.
[11:15.070 --> 11:15.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[11:16.410 --> 11:18.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've been through six, uh, cellmates?
[11:18.530 --> 11:21.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, actually, this will be my, uh, my seventh coming up tomorrow.
[11:21.690 --> 11:21.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[11:22.350 --> 11:24.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, two of them didn't speak any English.
[11:24.910 --> 11:25.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[11:25.730 --> 11:37.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, one of them, I, uh, one of those two, who was from the Dominican Republic, actually, uh, uh, he was here for about two months, and I, uh, actually, about a month and a half, and I taught him a fair amount of English, so he was reasonably conversational.
[11:38.370 --> 11:38.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[11:38.550 --> 11:46.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: So we, we spent about an hour every night, uh, learning the English language, which is, which is a pretty difficult language to learn if you don't know it.
[11:47.190 --> 11:48.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, that's certainly true.
[11:48.430 --> 11:55.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, now, uh, to just recap for the sake of listeners that might not even know what this is all about, um, uh, you were arrested, uh, when?
[11:55.150 --> 12:00.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was arrested March 15th of this year, uh, almost exactly, uh, five months ago.
[12:01.190 --> 12:01.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[12:01.550 --> 12:08.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've been, uh, in prison since that time on, uh, what developed into two federal charges.
[12:09.010 --> 12:15.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, both statutes I'm charged with are, uh, were newly passed into law earlier this year.
[12:15.570 --> 12:19.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, just a few weeks before I was charged with them, these, uh, these two statutes are passed into law.
[12:19.230 --> 12:35.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, one of them is, uh, possession of a modified telecommunications instrument, and the other is, uh, possessing hardware or software that could, uh, facilitate the program, the alteration or modification of telecommunications instruments.
[12:35.450 --> 12:41.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And this is something that, uh, we should point out is extremely common to possess and not necessarily for the purposes of committing a crime.
[12:42.250 --> 12:45.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, I imagine one could modify a telecommunication instrument with a screwdriver.
[12:46.050 --> 12:47.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Absolutely, absolutely.
[12:47.310 --> 12:49.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: But in this case, we're talking about, uh...
[12:49.730 --> 13:01.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're talking about, uh, computer software in this case, uh, specifically computer software which can enable someone to program a cellular telephone's internal, uh, uh, memory.
[13:01.430 --> 13:15.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: That, that is, memory which contains its, uh, unique electronic serial number and telephone number, which is what, what makes every cellular telephone, uh, uh, uh, identifiable to the, to the system as being your phone and not someone else's.
[13:15.090 --> 13:26.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, uh, uh, the reason that, uh, I had this software is to, uh, to enable other people to have, uh, uh, two or more cellular telephones on the same telephone number.
[13:26.510 --> 13:34.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: As, as probably many of our listeners are aware, um, the telephone carrier, cellular telephone carriers won't allow you to have two phones in the same number.
[13:34.930 --> 13:39.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: They want you to, uh, have, to pay an additional monthly access fee.
[13:40.150 --> 13:40.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[13:40.310 --> 13:41.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Each additional phone.
[13:41.850 --> 13:44.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, because they're a phone company, they, they get away with things like that.
[13:44.770 --> 13:44.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sure.
[13:45.370 --> 13:48.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Cellular phone company is no different from, uh, the, the land line.
[13:49.410 --> 13:51.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: The, the wire phone companies, whatever you call those things.
[13:51.810 --> 13:52.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wire line.
[13:52.530 --> 13:52.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[13:53.830 --> 14:00.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, um, it's, it's, uh, it's an extreme case of, uh, overreaction, I think.
[14:00.190 --> 14:01.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh...
[14:01.350 --> 14:08.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: My, uh, my attorney, who's a, who's a former federal prosecutor himself, uh, spent four years in the Philadelphia office, it seems pretty sharp.
[14:08.070 --> 14:13.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm very fortunate to have, who've gotten him, uh, some friends who, uh, knew him, uh, hooked me up with him.
[14:14.530 --> 14:24.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: He, uh, he seems to, uh, be of the opinion that the, these two statutes, uh, cannot stand, uh, scrutiny in, uh, in a higher federal court.
[14:24.310 --> 14:37.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: He thinks there's, there are problems with the laws itself, regardless of, uh, of any evidence, in my case, that the laws themselves just are bogus, which you and I know.
[14:37.530 --> 14:37.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[14:37.890 --> 14:41.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, uh, from a legal standpoint, there were some problems with it as well.
[14:41.430 --> 14:43.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, these are the laws that were snuck in last October.
[14:44.030 --> 14:44.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[14:44.570 --> 14:45.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's very good to know that.
[14:45.790 --> 14:49.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Under heavy, under heavy lobbying by, uh, communications industry lobbyists.
[14:49.590 --> 14:53.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, I wasn't even aware of these two, these two statutes until I was charged with them.
[14:53.390 --> 15:02.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, the Secret Service agent who participated in my arrest, uh, he didn't even have these statutes in his book when, when he started interrogating me.
[15:02.330 --> 15:04.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: He didn't even have them in his hands.
[15:04.370 --> 15:06.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: He said, these are so new, I don't even have them in my book yet.
[15:06.650 --> 15:07.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Amazing.
[15:07.790 --> 15:11.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, so, uh, so you continue to get mail when, uh, while you're in there.
[15:11.870 --> 15:14.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Actually, my mail has dropped off to almost nothing.
[15:14.210 --> 15:21.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, then, uh, folks hear that, uh, we need to send Bernie S some mail so that, uh, yes, something to look forward to, to while away the days there.
[15:21.750 --> 15:22.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: You want to give out the address?
[15:22.630 --> 15:37.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anything as simple as a, as a, as a small, short letter or of encouragement or a postcard or, uh, or even, uh, magazines, uh, they don't need to be technical magazines, any, any type of, uh, mental food would be greatly appreciated because it gets extremely monotonous here and it,
[15:37.590 --> 15:40.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: uh, if you, you, one almost goes out of their mind.
[15:41.190 --> 15:47.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: If, if you're, if you're the kind of person who, who needs to have their brain stimulated all the time, this is the worst place to be.
[15:48.270 --> 15:50.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yes, I would definitely imagine that.
[15:50.990 --> 15:52.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, so what address can people write to you?
[15:53.410 --> 15:57.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, the address, uh, first it goes to, to my name's.
[15:57.070 --> 16:01.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's the first line on the address, Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S.
[16:01.790 --> 16:07.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: And my number is 48919-066.
[16:07.750 --> 16:17.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: The second line on the address is F-C-I, as, as in Federal Correctional Institution, Fairton, that's F-A-I-R-T-O-N.
[16:18.490 --> 16:20.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, third line is P.O.
[16:20.310 --> 16:22.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Box 420, 420.
[16:23.110 --> 16:29.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the fourth line is Fairton, New Jersey, 08320.
[16:30.210 --> 16:42.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, and also on that second line, uh, after where it says F-C-I-Fairton, if you put the words, the letter A, and then the, the word left, A-left, it will be, uh, rooted to the proper, uh, housing unit here.
[16:42.370 --> 16:45.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I'll probably get it a couple days earlier than there was.
[16:45.590 --> 16:46.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[16:46.070 --> 17:00.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: I ran across a, uh, uh, a piece of paper on the compound here the other day that someone must have dropped, someone on the, on the staff here, which had, uh, uh, sort of an internal government telephone number for this, uh, uh, this particular institution.
[17:01.410 --> 17:09.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's in the, uh, it uses the 700 area code, and, uh, I haven't been able to call that number from the telephone system here.
[17:09.210 --> 17:10.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: That, that area code is blocked.
[17:11.090 --> 17:18.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, uh, I wanted to find out, uh, if any of your listeners would have any success in calling this particular number and seeing what they, what they got.
[17:18.170 --> 17:20.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is actually listed on letterhead?
[17:20.290 --> 17:21.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, no, it wasn't a letterhead.
[17:21.610 --> 17:24.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was a computer printout that must have blown out of someone's hand.
[17:24.770 --> 17:27.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Interesting, because usually 700 numbers require a specific carrier.
[17:28.170 --> 17:29.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Isn't that, uh, right, Phiber?
[17:29.630 --> 17:31.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yeah, uh, typically.
[17:31.430 --> 17:37.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, uh, if the 700 happens to be owned by AT&T, you're not going to be called, be able to call it, typically, with another carrier.
[17:38.170 --> 17:43.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, uh, maybe someone who has, uh, access to that particular, uh, carrier.
[17:44.630 --> 17:45.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[17:45.630 --> 17:46.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: What, what, what are you saying?
[17:46.970 --> 17:48.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: One, one needs to dial...
[17:48.610 --> 17:49.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I mean, yeah, you're free to use equal access.
[17:50.290 --> 17:50.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[17:50.790 --> 17:52.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: You just have to know which, which carrier it is.
[17:53.030 --> 17:54.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, I don't know.
[17:54.250 --> 17:55.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, well, give us a number and, uh, we'll figure out.
[17:55.930 --> 17:58.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Buy all the available carriers and see which one, uh, gets, gets through.
[17:58.830 --> 17:59.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, okay.
[17:59.650 --> 18:05.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: This number is, uh, area code 700-298-1177.
[18:06.470 --> 18:09.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have to wonder, why would they have a number like this?
[18:09.090 --> 18:12.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Those numbers are good for people that move around a lot, and I don't think that prison's going to be moving around.
[18:12.990 --> 18:13.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Probably not.
[18:13.750 --> 18:19.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: The prisoners here move around a lot as far as getting transferred to, to places, uh, all over the country.
[18:19.710 --> 18:20.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's strange.
[18:20.430 --> 18:25.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: You'll, you'll wake up in the morning and then, uh, two or three people that you've made friends with, uh, have just disappeared.
[18:26.030 --> 18:26.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: They never existed.
[18:27.150 --> 18:28.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: You don't, you don't know whatever happened to them.
[18:28.930 --> 18:36.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's, I'm probably, you, uh, you probably experienced that, uh, Phiber when you were, actually, no, you were in it, you were designated by the time you were incarcerated, right?
[18:37.430 --> 18:40.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but I mean, people still come, uh, come and go quite a bit.
[18:40.510 --> 18:42.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's quite disconcerting.
[18:42.570 --> 18:46.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: You get to know somebody and then, and then all of a sudden they vanish and you don't know whatever happened to them.
[18:46.870 --> 18:49.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they get, most, most usually they get transferred.
[18:49.890 --> 18:53.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right, right, but oftentimes you don't know where they've been transferred to or...
[18:53.010 --> 18:53.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right, and they don't know either.
[18:54.110 --> 18:59.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right, they don't know until the moment, the morning that they're woken up by a guard and saying, hey, you're being moved.
[18:59.430 --> 19:05.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, um, it reminds me of these stories you hear about in South America where people just sort of disappear and are never heard from.
[19:05.310 --> 19:08.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's the same basic idea and they do get their training up here, so...
[19:08.970 --> 19:09.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[19:09.270 --> 19:11.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: I imagine they just embellish upon it a little bit.
[19:12.350 --> 19:13.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, um...
[19:13.130 --> 19:13.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good work.
[19:13.670 --> 19:24.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, also I want to point out, uh, that, uh, you can email Bernie S, uh, through 2600, Bernie S at 2600 dot com, and we will forward you a message to him if, uh, you don't want to right swing down on a piece of paper.
[19:24.410 --> 19:26.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: But please, write something because it's extremely important.
[19:26.930 --> 19:28.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: It makes all the difference in the world.
[19:28.170 --> 19:28.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: It really does help.
[19:29.190 --> 19:33.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, by the way, I got your, uh, envelope of, uh, of email that was mailed to me via snail mail.
[19:33.810 --> 19:35.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Kind of an awkward way to get email, but...
[19:35.570 --> 19:35.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's true.
[19:35.990 --> 19:37.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: ...I still got it, so thank you very much.
[19:37.790 --> 19:39.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, all right, every little bit helps.
[19:39.730 --> 19:41.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, Bernie, uh, best of luck to you.
[19:41.370 --> 19:42.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll probably hear from you again next week.
[19:42.710 --> 19:43.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, I'll, uh, keep you posted.
[19:44.010 --> 19:45.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: We've got, uh, three weeks to go.
[19:45.270 --> 19:50.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, and, and keep calling us, uh, you know, throughout the week, too, because, uh, we have things to update you on as well.
[19:50.750 --> 19:53.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Great, well, um, good to hear your voice.
[19:53.530 --> 19:56.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, um, sorry I wasn't at, uh, at DEFCON.
[19:56.630 --> 19:57.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, you have a good excuse.
[19:59.590 --> 20:00.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe next year.
[20:00.670 --> 20:01.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, we'll see.
[20:01.150 --> 20:01.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, I've got to go.
[20:01.930 --> 20:03.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: I have to hand this phone off to somebody else.
[20:03.610 --> 20:04.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's a lot of prisoners waiting.
[20:05.150 --> 20:05.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[20:05.810 --> 20:06.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, take care.
[20:06.590 --> 20:07.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Take care, Phiber.
[20:07.430 --> 20:07.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Take it easy.
[20:08.170 --> 20:08.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Talk to you later.
[20:08.810 --> 20:09.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, good luck.
[20:11.190 --> 20:15.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, uh, live from federal prison, Bernie S, uh, becoming a fixture on the program.
[20:16.310 --> 20:17.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Boy, it's unbelievable.
[20:17.670 --> 20:19.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Did you ever think this would last this long?
[20:19.370 --> 20:20.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, no.
[20:20.570 --> 20:23.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's, it's, it's so Kafka-ish, you know?
[20:23.350 --> 20:23.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[20:24.210 --> 20:26.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it just never goes anywhere.
[20:26.710 --> 20:33.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Day after day, he's in the same position, never knowing what's going to happen, and what exactly is he being charged with.
[20:34.550 --> 20:37.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, it's, I mean, he should write a book.
[20:37.890 --> 20:38.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: He really should.
[20:39.090 --> 20:40.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is an incredible story.
[20:41.110 --> 20:54.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, um, again, we really need help as far as getting expert witnesses that will, uh, that will actually go down and, and, and say things, uh, to set the record straight as far as what can be done with the cellulophone, what cannot be done with the cellulophone,
[20:55.450 --> 21:01.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: and, um, just how dangerous carrying around a red box or, or a modified tone dialer really is.
[21:02.070 --> 21:06.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, is that something that, uh, that you would cause someone to be locked away with no bail?
[21:06.650 --> 21:08.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it seems kind of, kind of weird to me.
[21:10.050 --> 21:10.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm.
[21:10.990 --> 21:15.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, um, getting back to, uh, to what's been going on over the past couple of weeks.
[21:15.150 --> 21:16.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anything new in your life?
[21:16.210 --> 21:18.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, actually, um, a couple of things.
[21:19.410 --> 21:30.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, in the, uh, the continuing ISDN saga, there's, um, there's, there's a problem that I was having where I wanted a caller ID, uh, for my ISDN line.
[21:31.090 --> 21:32.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've been, you've been wanting this for some time now.
[21:33.010 --> 21:35.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and, uh, ironically...
[21:35.110 --> 21:36.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: You still don't have it, do you?
[21:36.030 --> 21:36.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, actually, I do.
[21:37.050 --> 21:37.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have caller ID now?
[21:37.930 --> 21:45.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, it's kind of ironic what happened in the end, but, um, it just so turns out that, uh, I actually had it all along.
[21:45.830 --> 21:46.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[21:46.190 --> 22:05.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, uh, after doing, uh, some, some searching and finally getting in touch with the right people after going on this, this caller ID crusade from, from 9x to Motorola to Northern Telecom, and, uh, finally I found out from, um, uh, finally people who were in the know at 9x,
[22:06.030 --> 22:10.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: it turns out that caller ID is part of your basic ISDN service.
[22:11.650 --> 22:13.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not an extra feature.
[22:13.610 --> 22:13.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[22:13.970 --> 22:18.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: You actually get caller ID along with basic ISDN service, so it's not something you have to order extra.
[22:19.770 --> 22:20.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's interesting.
[22:20.770 --> 22:34.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, what actually happened was that the reason why I wasn't receiving caller ID on voice calls was, um, actually, uh, an error on the part of the, uh, developers that, uh, developed the firmware and the ISDN hardware that I used.
[22:34.610 --> 22:35.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: So has that been fixed?
[22:35.590 --> 22:38.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, uh, it's, it's in the works currently right now.
[22:38.150 --> 22:40.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you still don't have, uh, you still have caller ID, do you?
[22:40.870 --> 22:45.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can, I can actually receive caller ID on data calls, but I never received data calls.
[22:45.510 --> 22:47.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that's, that's kind of, uh, useless for me.
[22:48.450 --> 22:50.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: Got a call from Sprint tonight, though, didn't you?
[22:50.130 --> 22:50.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[22:50.710 --> 22:50.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[22:51.150 --> 22:53.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, I wanted you to change, uh, long distance.
[22:53.250 --> 22:54.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they wanted me to make the big switch.
[22:55.030 --> 22:55.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[22:55.450 --> 22:58.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, we figured out a good way to get around them when they, when they do that.
[22:58.450 --> 23:00.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: You just say, uh, you can help me.
[23:00.470 --> 23:03.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm trying to dial, and my, I just can't seem to dial anything.
[23:04.050 --> 23:05.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: No matter what I dial, the dial tone stays there.
[23:05.870 --> 23:06.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can you please help me with this?
[23:06.990 --> 23:10.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they, they, they say, you know, well, uh, that's your local company.
[23:10.170 --> 23:10.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: We don't deal with that.
[23:10.830 --> 23:15.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: We deal with long distance, and just keep asking questions as to how to work your phone.
[23:15.430 --> 23:20.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: And believe me, they, they want to get off the phone quicker than you can imagine when you, when you try that.
[23:20.910 --> 23:23.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, um, so that, that's a neat little trick.
[23:23.510 --> 23:23.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[23:23.750 --> 23:25.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: To use on, on the people that, uh, that do that.
[23:25.990 --> 23:27.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, it's, it's interesting.
[23:27.490 --> 23:34.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Almost everybody I, I visited, uh, while I was over in California, they get these phone calls, you know, from, from all the long distance companies.
[23:34.410 --> 23:35.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, I see it on TV.
[23:35.910 --> 23:49.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I guess I don't realize that this is really happening to people because I put myself behind, you know, a veritable wall where I only pick up the phone if I know who it is, if I'm in the room, if I happen to be, you know, around the phone, I feel like talking to them in the first place.
[23:49.950 --> 23:52.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's no way a salesman can get me in the first place.
[23:53.770 --> 23:56.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I'm kind of, uh, leading a fantasy life, I guess.
[23:57.130 --> 24:00.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I mean, you guys, you, you, you, you actually pick up your phone.
[24:00.650 --> 24:02.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Someone calls your number and you pick it up.
[24:02.550 --> 24:03.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: It could be anyone.
[24:03.150 --> 24:05.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's actually the first call of that type I've gotten.
[24:06.070 --> 24:06.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah?
[24:06.490 --> 24:09.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't really been solicited by any, any other long distance carriers.
[24:09.710 --> 24:11.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, you've only had your phone line for about three days.
[24:12.170 --> 24:13.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it's a couple of months.
[24:14.310 --> 24:18.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, I mean, that's, that's a couple of months to change your long distance company.
[24:18.650 --> 24:21.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, you haven't gotten a bill yet for a long distance company.
[24:21.390 --> 24:25.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I mean, it's kind of early to tell people to, you know, consider changing.
[24:27.050 --> 24:28.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, um, that's kind of interesting.
[24:29.190 --> 24:35.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speaking of, uh, manipulating telephone people, do you know, this is something I learned in Las Vegas, uh, through a friend of mine here in New York.
[24:35.910 --> 24:40.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I was talking to him on the phone and he said he was going to try to leave me a message.
[24:41.290 --> 24:45.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so, he left me a message and he said, call in and get your message.
[24:45.810 --> 24:49.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, first of all, first of all, okay, this is, this is something.
[24:50.630 --> 24:54.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: The, the hotel I stayed at was unbelievably insecure.
[24:56.090 --> 24:56.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Unbelievably insecure.
[24:56.950 --> 24:59.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: You could pick up anyone's messages.
[25:00.430 --> 25:01.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyone's messages at all.
[25:01.770 --> 25:03.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was, it was, it was so incredibly simple.
[25:04.430 --> 25:06.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, maybe we'll demonstrate this.
[25:08.650 --> 25:09.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I don't know.
[25:09.770 --> 25:10.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Should we?
[25:10.810 --> 25:11.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sure, why not?
[25:11.710 --> 25:13.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, I don't have the phone number for the hotel.
[25:13.670 --> 25:13.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Huh.
[25:14.290 --> 25:14.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, um...
[25:14.830 --> 25:15.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: It should be listed, right?
[25:15.750 --> 25:16.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, it should be listed.
[25:16.650 --> 25:16.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[25:17.610 --> 25:18.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we'll do a little later.
[25:18.630 --> 25:22.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, anyway, um, he, he left me a message.
[25:22.350 --> 25:23.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: I called in to get the message.
[25:23.670 --> 25:25.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: And basically, the message was simply to call home.
[25:26.470 --> 25:28.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm like, wow, that's a really good message there.
[25:29.290 --> 25:31.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: What, what, what, what, what, you know, I called him back and I said, that's the message.
[25:31.790 --> 25:32.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Call home.
[25:32.970 --> 25:35.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he said, that's not the message I left.
[25:35.130 --> 25:38.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: The message I left said, uh, come home right now and stop gambling.
[25:40.290 --> 25:41.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, consider this.
[25:41.510 --> 25:42.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're in a gambling hotel.
[25:43.130 --> 25:46.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are they going to take that message and pass it on to one of their clients?
[25:46.890 --> 25:47.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think so.
[25:47.810 --> 25:52.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, they're just going to, at best, pass along that message at the person called.
[25:52.270 --> 25:55.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I don't think they could even physically write down, stop gambling.
[25:55.930 --> 26:00.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because everything you do in that place, they say, good luck.
[26:00.690 --> 26:02.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, have a lucky day.
[26:03.050 --> 26:05.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And not just in the hotel, in the whole town.
[26:05.310 --> 26:06.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: McDonald's, you get a Big Mac, good luck.
[26:07.750 --> 26:10.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I guess you'll need it, I don't know.
[26:10.630 --> 26:13.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that's why that town drives me completely mad.
[26:17.310 --> 26:18.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, enough said about that.
[26:19.030 --> 26:19.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: You see The Net?
[26:19.970 --> 26:23.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, I know you saw The Net, because there was an article in the newspaper that was quoting you.
[26:23.750 --> 26:23.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[26:24.070 --> 26:25.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Saying The Net was nonsense.
[26:25.630 --> 26:29.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, as far as, I mean, I don't know what exactly people are expecting.
[26:29.470 --> 26:31.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, I mean, it was a movie, it was entertaining.
[26:32.690 --> 26:34.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, above all, it was fiction.
[26:35.230 --> 26:40.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: I hope people aren't going to the movie to expect to see, well, gosh, that's what everyone's talking about.
[26:40.750 --> 26:40.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[26:41.330 --> 26:43.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it's not real.
[26:43.110 --> 26:50.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, you know, I was really surprised by the slant that they gave the article, as if to...
[26:50.810 --> 26:53.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then, to quote the director.
[26:54.190 --> 26:55.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, he was mad at you.
[26:55.690 --> 26:56.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was mad at you.
[26:56.390 --> 26:56.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was angry.
[26:56.510 --> 26:59.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: He said that he talked to some top officials with...
[26:59.370 --> 27:01.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: They don't know what they're talking about.
[27:01.470 --> 27:06.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: He spoke to some top officials with security consulting firms and the FBI or something.
[27:06.770 --> 27:06.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[27:07.050 --> 27:08.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who obviously say that.
[27:08.190 --> 27:10.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Everything in the movie is perfectly feasible.
[27:10.350 --> 27:11.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Erwin Winkler said that.
[27:11.270 --> 27:11.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[27:11.890 --> 27:12.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[27:12.690 --> 27:14.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I mean, it tried.
[27:14.770 --> 27:17.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: It tried to present an interesting story.
[27:17.130 --> 27:19.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, towards the end, I think it just completely fell apart.
[27:20.050 --> 27:21.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Remember that chase scene?
[27:21.350 --> 27:23.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if you haven't seen the film...
[27:23.150 --> 27:23.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Which chase scene?
[27:23.630 --> 27:23.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: It doesn't matter.
[27:24.150 --> 27:25.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just don't worry about it.
[27:26.230 --> 27:27.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: The whole movie is a chase scene.
[27:27.350 --> 27:27.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I know that.
[27:27.910 --> 27:30.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: The chase scene where she's with the fake FBI agent.
[27:31.010 --> 27:31.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[27:32.710 --> 27:38.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: And she just suddenly realizes that he's a fake FBI agent because he knew something that he couldn't possibly know.
[27:38.390 --> 27:38.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[27:38.550 --> 27:39.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then he gets that evil look on his face.
[27:40.030 --> 27:40.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[27:40.250 --> 27:40.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then they crash.
[27:40.990 --> 27:42.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Then, well, she grabs control of the wheel.
[27:42.930 --> 27:44.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: She hits the gas pedal.
[27:45.130 --> 27:45.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[27:45.390 --> 27:49.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, of course, this is going on for about 25 minutes where she's hit the gas pedal and they're driving all over the city.
[27:50.110 --> 27:53.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then, all of a sudden, they start skidding and they crash into a car.
[27:53.690 --> 27:58.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the very car that the person that has been chasing her from the beginning of the film happens to be sitting in.
[27:59.070 --> 27:59.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[27:59.270 --> 28:05.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what are the odds of you crashing into a car somewhere in the city and it happens to be the one with the person that's chasing you in it parked?
[28:05.270 --> 28:06.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: That seemed unlikely.
[28:06.450 --> 28:07.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: That was crazy.
[28:07.470 --> 28:08.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: That was absolutely absurd.
[28:08.290 --> 28:11.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: My complaint was the only redeemable character, Dennis Miller, they kill off.
[28:12.070 --> 28:13.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't like that one.
[28:13.170 --> 28:13.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dennis Miller was good.
[28:14.030 --> 28:14.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah.
[28:14.690 --> 28:16.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the thing was that, how do they kill him?
[28:16.990 --> 28:17.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: They give...
[28:17.690 --> 28:19.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: First of all, they get him sick.
[28:19.470 --> 28:22.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the way they get him sick is you know that he has allergies.
[28:23.450 --> 28:27.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know that he's taking Celdane, which is a major brand antihistamine, prescription drug.
[28:28.090 --> 28:28.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[28:28.430 --> 28:32.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Then for purposes of, I guess, visual effect, they...
[28:32.270 --> 28:38.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, obviously the hacker, the so-called hackers, misprescribe him penicillin, which he's allergic to.
[28:38.390 --> 28:38.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[28:38.810 --> 28:46.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: And when he passes out at the wheel driving his car, they zoom in on the bottle of pills and clearly marked, it says penicillin.
[28:47.250 --> 28:47.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[28:47.610 --> 28:55.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, if I was taking Celdane, I think I would have noticed when I picked up my pills that it said penicillin on the bottle.
[28:55.230 --> 29:04.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: And even if I didn't, Celdane pills look extremely different than any kind of penicillin that you're ever going to take.
[29:04.450 --> 29:09.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if anyone has ever taken any kind of antibiotic like any kind of the penicillins, they stink.
[29:09.970 --> 29:10.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: They smell moldy.
[29:10.990 --> 29:11.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, okay.
[29:11.370 --> 29:14.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Apart from all that, though, I mean, he was preoccupied being in a major film and all.
[29:14.850 --> 29:19.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: But how does a pharmacy get on the net in the first place?
[29:19.810 --> 29:19.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[29:19.910 --> 29:20.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Exactly.
[29:20.370 --> 29:21.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: People can get in and change prescriptions.
[29:22.030 --> 29:23.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
[29:23.390 --> 29:32.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was the biggest misconception that I pointed out in the interview was that, I'm sorry, but, like, every single computer in the world just simply isn't connected to the Internet.
[29:32.350 --> 29:32.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[29:32.910 --> 29:34.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: As much as people would like to think it is.
[29:35.150 --> 29:58.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, this was prime fodder for Unabomber people, you know, who distrust technology at every juncture, it can foster a lot of paranoia because, you know, people see technology creeping in, barcodes, left and right, categorization, and they're going to be very,
[29:58.170 --> 29:59.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: very afraid and hostile to it.
[29:59.810 --> 30:04.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, that's not to say that's not a correct attitude to have in certain situations.
[30:04.850 --> 30:05.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Absolutely.
[30:05.470 --> 30:07.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's way too much information being stored on us.
[30:07.490 --> 30:09.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, caution is one thing, but hostility is another.
[30:09.650 --> 30:17.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: But to think that somebody could completely destroy your life, completely dominate you, become you, that's kind of a, you know...
[30:17.890 --> 30:18.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a little far-fetched.
[30:18.890 --> 30:26.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it's... it leads you to lead kind of a resigned life that there's no hope for the individual, and I don't think that's true.
[30:26.230 --> 30:29.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: I wonder how many people walked out of that movie theater and became Luddites.
[30:29.710 --> 30:30.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, exactly.
[30:31.370 --> 30:31.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Exactly.
[30:31.990 --> 30:36.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess that's what the Praetorians were, that strange group of people.
[30:36.330 --> 30:36.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[30:36.470 --> 30:41.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, how could somebody live a life and not be able to prove who they were?
[30:41.250 --> 30:43.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, never go out, never be recognized by neighbors.
[30:43.990 --> 30:45.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: What about school?
[30:45.750 --> 30:47.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Didn't she go to school ever, you know?
[30:47.570 --> 30:48.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wouldn't people have remembered her?
[30:49.030 --> 30:49.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Distant relatives?
[30:50.030 --> 30:50.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, somebody.
[30:50.990 --> 30:51.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anybody.
[30:51.870 --> 30:53.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's an interesting premise.
[30:53.750 --> 30:54.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[30:54.770 --> 30:55.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: But...
[30:55.250 --> 30:57.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was a premise of convenience.
[30:58.070 --> 30:58.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[30:59.450 --> 31:01.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, so that's our take on the net.
[31:02.030 --> 31:03.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: A bit preposterous, a bit...
[31:11.000 --> 31:14.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Future, people are going to watch films and figure out what films they came from.
[31:15.260 --> 31:15.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[31:15.660 --> 31:22.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: But based on what you're telling me, I can narrow it down to a combination of Demolition Man, The Fugitive...
[31:22.480 --> 31:22.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[31:23.360 --> 31:24.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: The Fugitive was a good film, though.
[31:24.820 --> 31:26.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah, it was definitely a good film.
[31:26.660 --> 31:28.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: They threw a little Max Headroom into there.
[31:28.640 --> 31:29.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Probably, yes.
[31:29.260 --> 31:32.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, of course, I'm missing one thing.
[31:32.120 --> 31:33.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Something else with the word man in it.
[31:33.880 --> 31:34.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, um...
[31:34.900 --> 31:36.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Lawnmower Man, which I never saw.
[31:36.660 --> 31:37.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, Lawnmower Man.
[31:37.520 --> 31:38.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Which people told me was vile.
[31:38.360 --> 31:39.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it was a...
[31:39.420 --> 31:40.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it was a good movie.
[31:40.100 --> 31:40.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was it?
[31:40.240 --> 31:40.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I liked it, yeah.
[31:40.780 --> 31:41.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[31:41.280 --> 31:41.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought it was good.
[31:42.540 --> 31:46.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, there was some news concerning the upcoming Hackers film, which is coming out in September.
[31:46.840 --> 31:47.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, there was, actually.
[31:47.800 --> 31:50.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Why don't you tell us what happened here, because it's kind of an interesting story.
[31:50.540 --> 31:53.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, actually, I received an email note...
[31:53.660 --> 31:54.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you do it?
[31:54.420 --> 31:54.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, no.
[31:55.100 --> 31:55.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[31:55.420 --> 31:55.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[31:56.060 --> 32:09.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I received an email note that, apparently, there was a report in California that a particular website that was put up on behalf of MGM United Artists for the upcoming Hacker film was vandalized.
[32:10.280 --> 32:23.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I took a look at the URL, I connected to the site, and lo and behold, the site was apparently modified in a joking manner.
[32:24.570 --> 32:34.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what was apparently done was, there was a picture, a gif picture, of two of the main characters in the film, which was graffitied on, kind of like...
[32:34.160 --> 32:34.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Spray-painted?
[32:35.080 --> 32:36.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it was almost as if it was spray-painted.
[32:36.740 --> 32:36.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[32:37.420 --> 32:40.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the text of the page was changed around.
[32:40.700 --> 32:42.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Surprisingly, there was a... it was a goof.
[32:43.320 --> 32:44.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was a good goof, yes.
[32:45.000 --> 32:50.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Surprisingly, there was no profanity, which struck me as extremely odd.
[32:50.300 --> 32:51.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: That does seem kind of strange.
[32:51.520 --> 33:01.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: The only thing profane that I saw on the page was a claim in flashing letters saying that the writer of the film should die.
[33:01.800 --> 33:03.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's not exactly profane.
[33:03.260 --> 33:05.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, well, it's a... it was a nasty thing.
[33:05.620 --> 33:06.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it's a nasty thing.
[33:06.460 --> 33:13.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, because everything else on there was generally poking fun at the movie and just like, you know, changing around the wording of the page and so on.
[33:14.120 --> 33:15.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: So do you think this is a big publicity stunt?
[33:15.920 --> 33:20.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: See, originally I thought that it might have been a stunt pulled by MGM.
[33:20.560 --> 33:20.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[33:21.080 --> 33:22.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or by MGM...
[33:22.480 --> 33:23.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a good stunt.
[33:23.260 --> 33:24.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, getting someone to do this.
[33:24.780 --> 33:26.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: The fact that the movie's coming out next month.
[33:27.180 --> 33:31.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: The things that didn't make any sense is their mention of...
[33:33.390 --> 33:34.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: of... what's it called?
[33:34.660 --> 33:35.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: DEFCON.
[33:35.240 --> 33:36.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: The DEFCON conference.
[33:36.680 --> 33:37.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that didn't make sense.
[33:37.800 --> 33:39.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: They said it was a DEFCON production.
[33:39.460 --> 33:39.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[33:39.580 --> 33:41.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's like they're throwing out a word.
[33:41.280 --> 33:42.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they said that.
[33:42.320 --> 33:44.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they had a link to the DEFCON page.
[33:44.600 --> 33:46.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: They had a link to your homepage, Phrack's homepage.
[33:47.340 --> 33:54.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then at the very end, they claimed to be the Praetorians from the movie and put the little pie symbol and said, don't see this movie, go see the net.
[33:54.860 --> 33:55.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[33:55.280 --> 33:56.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Which made even less sense.
[33:57.160 --> 33:57.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[33:57.680 --> 33:59.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was almost as if they were hired by...
[33:59.440 --> 34:01.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's something MGM definitely wouldn't do.
[34:01.060 --> 34:02.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: They wouldn't go out and say, see this other film.
[34:02.640 --> 34:02.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, right.
[34:02.920 --> 34:03.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe by another company.
[34:03.700 --> 34:13.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: But we pieced together a couple of clues anyway, is that a picture that they used of a bunch of people standing around in what looked like a public place.
[34:14.000 --> 34:14.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, right.
[34:14.630 --> 34:20.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it turned out that by viewing the source of the homepage, that the name of this particular gift file was called Blarney.
[34:21.360 --> 34:27.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if anyone out there is familiar with Blarney Stone Chain of bar hangouts...
[34:27.000 --> 34:27.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is not it.
[34:27.780 --> 34:28.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is not it.
[34:28.520 --> 34:34.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, this is the Blarney Rock, which is a reasonable facsimile of Blarney Stones.
[34:34.690 --> 34:36.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the bar that everybody hung out in after Hope.
[34:36.570 --> 34:36.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[34:37.300 --> 34:39.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Night after night, and got totally trashed.
[34:39.480 --> 34:45.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what we did notice is that someone in a picture, in this picture, and a picture on your site were wearing the exact same t-shirt.
[34:45.860 --> 34:47.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, so it was taken at that time.
[34:47.400 --> 34:47.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it was taken.
[34:47.860 --> 34:49.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know what it had to do with this particular event.
[34:50.110 --> 34:51.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I have no idea either.
[34:51.260 --> 34:52.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: It just had a bunch of people on.
[34:52.440 --> 34:55.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: But do you notice something today, that their eyes got covered up today?
[34:55.840 --> 35:00.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, somebody apparently blacked out their eyes, which wasn't like that as recently as yesterday.
[35:00.770 --> 35:02.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, something corporate's going on here, I think.
[35:02.860 --> 35:09.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and the most surprising thing is that MGM claimed that they thought this was curious and unique, and they decided to leave it up as it was.
[35:09.500 --> 35:10.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, how does something like this happen?
[35:10.640 --> 35:11.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: How do you get into a web page?
[35:12.360 --> 35:14.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, actually, I did some checking.
[35:14.500 --> 35:21.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some people I was talking with last night, because I was highly suspicious, but they claimed that the particular site in question was, in fact, insecure.
[35:22.040 --> 35:25.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, it was definitely possible that somebody got into the site and did do this.
[35:25.840 --> 35:25.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[35:26.200 --> 35:28.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: But it was running on a UNIX machine.
[35:28.660 --> 35:31.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: It would require someone to, you know, get into the machine.
[35:31.820 --> 35:32.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is on the net.
[35:33.690 --> 35:38.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: And obtain super user privileges, or whatever privileges would have been necessary.
[35:38.550 --> 35:39.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Webmaster.
[35:39.440 --> 35:41.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, whatever the case may be.
[35:41.860 --> 35:42.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[35:42.240 --> 35:45.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And whoever the owner of the web server is, and so on.
[35:45.780 --> 35:54.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, and, uh, in effect, what they had to do was, um, for example, to graffiti up that picture, that's a file, it was a GIF image.
[35:54.800 --> 36:02.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: They, uh, simply could have downloaded the file onto their, uh, PC or Mac, loaded it up into, um, into some, uh, paint program.
[36:02.980 --> 36:03.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[36:03.320 --> 36:06.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, proceeded to, uh, scribble all over it and then upload it back.
[36:07.360 --> 36:10.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then, uh, the text they could have edited right then and there online.
[36:10.740 --> 36:12.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's just straight text, ASCII text.
[36:13.570 --> 36:16.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, and presto, the website is now modified.
[36:16.540 --> 36:17.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's kind of cool, isn't it?
[36:17.920 --> 36:19.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, it is.
[36:19.380 --> 36:30.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you know, you have all these websites popping up everywhere, and now you can, uh, you know, if they're, if they're silly enough to be insecure, you can actually change their message, which is all they're trying to get out is, you know, some sort of,
[36:30.040 --> 36:30.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: uh, PR.
[36:30.920 --> 36:35.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's kind of like being able to change your giant billboard on the top of a building.
[36:35.340 --> 36:35.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, exactly.
[36:35.660 --> 36:37.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Without having to cross anything out.
[36:37.100 --> 36:41.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Imagine if we had access to that, how much MCI is saving AT&T thing that's all over the place.
[36:41.920 --> 36:43.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Boy, I'd have a field day with that one.
[36:43.820 --> 36:44.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[36:44.620 --> 36:45.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So...
[36:45.000 --> 36:46.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You could, you could have a countdown on the savings.
[36:46.440 --> 36:46.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[36:47.180 --> 36:48.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: There was one moving backwards.
[36:48.920 --> 36:49.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[36:49.340 --> 36:50.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, I heard about it a couple years ago.
[36:50.900 --> 36:51.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: There was one moving backwards.
[36:52.780 --> 36:54.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, uh, never mind that.
[36:54.260 --> 36:55.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, okay, that's, uh, that's interesting.
[36:55.860 --> 37:03.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: If anyone has any more information on, uh, on that kind of thing, please let us know about it, because it's, uh, it's all interesting stuff.
[37:03.360 --> 37:06.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Our phone number is 279-3400, area code 212.
[37:06.070 --> 37:10.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to take some phone calls and, um, share some other experiences.
[37:10.840 --> 37:12.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: What do you want to bet this first call is, you know who?
[37:12.980 --> 37:13.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi, Eric!
[37:13.900 --> 37:14.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[37:14.360 --> 37:15.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's got to be him.
[37:15.920 --> 37:16.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's got to be him.
[37:17.260 --> 37:18.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, every time I say that, it's not.
[37:19.120 --> 37:19.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[37:19.500 --> 37:20.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: If I don't say it, it is.
[37:21.000 --> 37:21.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: If I...
[37:21.400 --> 37:21.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[37:22.120 --> 37:22.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not him.
[37:22.940 --> 37:23.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[37:23.720 --> 37:24.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[37:24.400 --> 37:24.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on.
[37:25.290 --> 37:26.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello, Emmanuel.
[37:26.340 --> 37:26.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: See?
[37:26.680 --> 37:26.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: See?
[37:27.100 --> 37:27.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi, how you doing?
[37:28.070 --> 37:28.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[37:28.640 --> 37:33.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, some very interesting news, uh, concerning LDDS Metromedia.
[37:33.540 --> 37:34.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can you speak up a bit?
[37:34.360 --> 37:37.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, let me, let me kill this, uh, switch here.
[37:37.460 --> 37:38.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, kill that switch.
[37:38.220 --> 37:38.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[37:38.550 --> 37:39.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's much better.
[37:39.700 --> 37:43.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, uh, concerning LDDS, now it's called LDDS WorldCom.
[37:43.640 --> 37:43.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[37:44.040 --> 37:52.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've, I have, uh, just, uh, we call it Switch, my long distance, uh, service to them, and they're pretty linear, 10 cents a minute, 20 cents from a payphone with their card.
[37:52.760 --> 37:54.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: They bought out WillTel.
[37:54.720 --> 37:55.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, they did.
[37:55.800 --> 37:56.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: When did this happen?
[37:56.980 --> 37:58.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, this happened a while ago.
[37:58.600 --> 38:01.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was at least a month, uh, just about a month ago, I think.
[38:01.070 --> 38:02.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: I thought WillTel was buying things out now.
[38:03.020 --> 38:04.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, WillTel got bought, yeah.
[38:04.120 --> 38:04.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, boy.
[38:04.880 --> 38:09.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, uh, now I have LDDS, my number's probably going to be showing up all over the place now.
[38:10.070 --> 38:12.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because of the caller ID, nationwide caller ID of WillTel.
[38:12.660 --> 38:12.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[38:12.840 --> 38:17.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I've heard that, uh, Sprint and MCI also have nationwide caller ID in effect now.
[38:17.880 --> 38:18.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[38:18.220 --> 38:19.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: What about AT&T?
[38:19.640 --> 38:26.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not as of yet, but, you know, as of the end of the year, as of December, I think it's going to be mandated nationwide, so it doesn't matter what company you have.
[38:26.300 --> 38:33.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: But now, with this, uh, nationwide caller ID, will there, will there also be, uh, nationwide anonymous call rejection?
[38:33.660 --> 38:34.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, there should be.
[38:34.380 --> 38:37.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: There should be blocking, there should be call rejection, all that kind of thing.
[38:37.440 --> 38:37.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[38:38.000 --> 38:42.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, originally, the, the, the law they had in place was not very friendly to the consumer.
[38:43.460 --> 38:43.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[38:43.880 --> 38:55.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it was basically, uh, the, the, the consumer had to have, um, uh, their line not block, you know, it would, it would default to not blocking, and now you can change that.
[38:55.840 --> 38:57.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can, you can have it block if you want to.
[38:57.700 --> 38:59.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's after pressure from consumer groups.
[38:59.660 --> 39:09.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, to my knowledge, they're supposed, they're supposed to support the, uh, star 67, star 82 pair nationwide for enabling and, and, uh, disabling caller ID being transmitted.
[39:09.660 --> 39:13.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Another thing, I hear that Alaska is still using R1 signaling.
[39:14.000 --> 39:18.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, I don't know for sure if that's true, but I do know that they do not have AT&T up there.
[39:18.550 --> 39:21.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's like, I heard it was like GTE, the phone company.
[39:21.500 --> 39:23.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, I think it's called Alascom, is that, is that correct?
[39:23.960 --> 39:25.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's, that's one of the companies up there.
[39:25.480 --> 39:26.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and there's, there are two companies.
[39:26.720 --> 39:28.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: It might serve also up there.
[39:28.340 --> 39:29.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's pretty primitive.
[39:29.920 --> 39:30.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: The thing is, uh...
[39:30.840 --> 39:37.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: The rumor is that you could actually dial Alaska direct and break it with, uh, 2600 and box off of that.
[39:38.100 --> 39:39.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd be getting that all over the net.
[39:39.760 --> 39:41.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there's only one way to find that, isn't there?
[39:42.200 --> 39:42.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[39:43.670 --> 39:43.960]  Wee!
[39:44.100 --> 39:44.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, I'll see you later.
[39:45.100 --> 39:45.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[39:45.570 --> 39:45.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bye.
[39:45.720 --> 39:48.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, whistling down a phone line couldn't be a crime, could it?
[39:48.840 --> 39:49.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, of course not.
[39:50.000 --> 39:50.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Day and age?
[39:50.140 --> 39:52.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not in this day and age, but what is that, area code 907?
[39:52.780 --> 39:53.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: 907, yeah.
[39:54.040 --> 39:54.300]  Yeah.
[39:54.300 --> 39:54.440]  Yeah.
[39:54.620 --> 39:54.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hmm.
[39:55.540 --> 39:56.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, I was in a lot of area codes.
[39:57.050 --> 39:57.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[39:57.120 --> 39:58.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was in, uh, 310.
[39:58.760 --> 39:58.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[39:59.360 --> 40:00.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Soon to be 562.
[40:01.670 --> 40:03.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: 310, that's the other half of 213.
[40:03.640 --> 40:07.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the other half of 213, and, uh, remember 818 used to be part 213 as well?
[40:07.420 --> 40:07.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[40:07.600 --> 40:10.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, those area codes are splitting off faster than, than you can count them.
[40:10.820 --> 40:12.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, it's like mitosis.
[40:12.460 --> 40:14.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, yeah, it's like a virus is what it is.
[40:14.540 --> 40:15.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Out of control.
[40:16.300 --> 40:17.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on.
[40:17.570 --> 40:18.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[40:18.480 --> 40:20.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, let's see.
[40:21.360 --> 40:32.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Two, uh, points, uh, as, uh, since, uh, Mr. Um, uh, Emmanuel, uh, I'm sorry, I keep forgetting your last name.
[40:32.520 --> 40:33.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, hang on.
[40:33.660 --> 40:34.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Goldman.
[40:34.500 --> 40:34.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Goldman.
[40:34.660 --> 40:35.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, uh, Goldman.
[40:36.360 --> 40:37.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Goldstein.
[40:37.460 --> 40:38.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Goldstein.
[40:38.070 --> 40:38.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[40:38.360 --> 40:38.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, okay.
[40:39.050 --> 40:39.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[40:39.460 --> 41:05.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Since you are a, um, uh, AT&T True Connection subscriber, presumably you got the recent notice, um, that several, well, over a dozen, all very, mostly very small and obscure countries, plus one high population country, Pakistan, have been taken off of the list of most,
[41:06.140 --> 41:13.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: of the, um, well, of all the USA Direct, uh, countries, those that are in USA Direct.
[41:13.520 --> 41:16.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: So they misbehaved and they got taken off the list.
[41:16.280 --> 41:17.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: They got taken off the list.
[41:17.880 --> 41:19.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: And did you happen to find out why?
[41:19.960 --> 41:22.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know the answer, but I'm just curious as to.
[41:23.020 --> 41:27.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I don't, uh, well, I imagine somebody was making phone calls to those countries without the intention of paying for them.
[41:27.980 --> 41:28.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not exactly.
[41:28.800 --> 41:29.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[41:30.120 --> 41:31.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a little, okay, here's what it was.
[41:32.050 --> 41:45.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I happened to see in the, um, New York edition of the New York Times, which is the one that gets onto microfilm and is distributed in the Northeast and Puerto Rico only with regular mail subscriptions.
[41:45.820 --> 41:50.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, and, uh, I don't think they would have paid for it in the national edition copies.
[41:50.900 --> 41:54.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: But anyway, or excuse me, there's AT&T, it's not NYNEX.
[41:54.240 --> 41:56.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, they, they might have been in the national edition too.
[41:56.540 --> 41:59.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, it's a legal notice and it listed all these countries.
[41:59.500 --> 42:00.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I thought that was very curious.
[42:00.840 --> 42:03.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know the little mail notice.
[42:03.400 --> 42:06.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I, the mail notice didn't actually explain it at all.
[42:06.320 --> 42:33.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I called up and the regular customer service representative on, you know, like, um, 800, ATT, 1500 or whatever, um, press four, uh, said that people, it, it all has to do with these erotic chat lines where now you, um, call overseas countries, including Dominican Republic and 809 and so forth.
[42:33.420 --> 42:36.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, yet another way to get around 900 blocking and things like that.
[42:36.440 --> 42:38.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so that's what that all amounted to.
[42:38.860 --> 42:56.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And apparently they are, I think, uh, the guy couldn't be too specific, but apparently people were, a lot of them may be taking advantage of the thing where you can run up one big bill, one small or one big bill, and then get it written off as long as you don't do it more than once.
[42:56.740 --> 43:03.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because you're, that way you can be claiming it was someone else in your household and you really didn't know what was going on and so forth.
[43:03.800 --> 43:04.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: I suppose.
[43:04.020 --> 43:06.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: So anyway, that's why all these countries were taken off.
[43:07.020 --> 43:14.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Item number two, turning to item number two, the, uh, phone number 700-298-1177.
[43:15.160 --> 43:16.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've already checked this out.
[43:16.740 --> 43:17.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, what do you got?
[43:17.660 --> 43:32.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, um, it does not work via the, um, uh, secondary carrier, five-digit carrier codes to soon become seven-digit codes of AT&T.
[43:32.160 --> 43:40.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Either one of MCIs, that is 102-2-2-2 or 108-8-8, either one of Sprint's, 103-3-3 or 107-1-0-SPR.
[43:41.320 --> 43:52.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the one of Long Distance Wholesale Club or whatever it is, 102-9-7, Western Union, 102-2-0, uh, Cable and Wireless, 102-2-3.
[43:52.780 --> 44:04.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and finally, just for good measure, I not only tried 1-0-N-Y-T, which, you know, it's not supposed to go out to the five, um, Colorado counties, right?
[44:04.220 --> 44:06.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: And Mrs. Fairton is down in South Jersey.
[44:06.780 --> 44:15.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and for totally, just to say, be able to say I'd done it, 1-0-N-J-B, which, of course, is only usable from New Jersey, right?
[44:15.860 --> 44:18.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I could have tried them all anyway, even though I'm in New York.
[44:18.940 --> 44:27.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I also tried my own carriers, secondary carrier code, in addition to just trying as a dial-one call without any secondary.
[44:27.480 --> 44:36.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I was running out of all the, uh, secondary carrier codes I know, and it doesn't work on any of those, uh, upwards of a dozen or whatever, in any case.
[44:37.180 --> 44:38.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it sounds like something of an mystery.
[44:38.600 --> 44:45.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, somebody in, in New Jersey, if they want to try, well, no, if they try 1-0-N-J-B, then that's only to go to the five bars in New Jersey.
[44:46.860 --> 44:47.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[44:47.760 --> 44:53.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe just, uh, trying a default of 1-700 within New Jersey might, uh, might result in something strange.
[44:54.140 --> 44:55.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't think of just trying it plain.
[44:56.020 --> 44:56.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no, I did.
[44:56.760 --> 44:57.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I did.
[44:58.320 --> 45:03.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Via my carrier with no secondary code, though, as I say, I'm in New York, I tried plain 1-700.
[45:04.020 --> 45:05.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, we will get to the bottom of this.
[45:06.020 --> 45:06.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's hope.
[45:06.740 --> 45:07.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bye-bye.
[45:07.260 --> 45:10.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for all the info, and, uh, the investigation, and all that kind of thing.
[45:10.640 --> 45:11.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know, what do you think?
[45:11.280 --> 45:12.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: You think there's some sort of military thing?
[45:12.900 --> 45:13.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I don't know.
[45:13.460 --> 45:15.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: He didn't happen to mention, uh, all that, did he?
[45:15.620 --> 45:16.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, 1-0-4-4-4.
[45:17.280 --> 45:17.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[45:17.600 --> 45:18.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: I doubt it's all in that.
[45:19.380 --> 45:19.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know?
[45:20.000 --> 45:20.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it wouldn't hurt to try.
[45:20.740 --> 45:22.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Did he do Will Tell, 1-0-5-5-5?
[45:22.520 --> 45:24.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I don't think he... Did he mention that?
[45:24.280 --> 45:25.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know, I don't remember.
[45:25.480 --> 45:30.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, in any event, um, you know, if anybody figures out what's the number again, do you have it there?
[45:30.300 --> 45:32.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's, uh, 2-9-8-11-77.
[45:32.740 --> 45:33.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Area code 700.
[45:33.720 --> 45:33.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[45:34.400 --> 45:36.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I wonder if it could be some sort of internal thing.
[45:37.380 --> 45:38.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[45:38.220 --> 45:38.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: As a 700 number?
[45:38.880 --> 45:39.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Internal prison number.
[45:40.000 --> 45:40.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hmm.
[45:41.500 --> 45:41.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[45:42.140 --> 45:43.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'll certainly look into it.
[45:43.060 --> 45:45.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you get through, just let us know, because we're curious.
[45:45.540 --> 45:46.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the only reason we're doing this.
[45:46.900 --> 45:49.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're not trying to dismantle the federal prison system.
[45:49.360 --> 45:50.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're not trying to overthrow the government.
[45:51.060 --> 45:53.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're not trying to, uh, you know, do nasty things.
[45:53.860 --> 45:54.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: We are just curious.
[45:55.760 --> 45:58.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess that is kind of nasty in this day and age.
[46:00.080 --> 46:02.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: 279-3400, area code 212.
[46:03.560 --> 46:04.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on.
[46:04.520 --> 46:07.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi, two brief questions.
[46:07.540 --> 46:10.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, first of all, you mentioned you were in Las Vegas?
[46:10.620 --> 46:11.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, I did.
[46:11.400 --> 46:13.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you're aware of this, but is it true?
[46:14.280 --> 46:21.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: In most major hotels, any phone calls you place from your room are either recorded or monitored?
[46:22.420 --> 46:23.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that true?
[46:23.280 --> 46:25.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it wouldn't surprise me, but, uh...
[46:25.360 --> 46:28.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know that's done in Atlantic City, but I don't know, like, if they...
[46:28.300 --> 46:30.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: They really should tell you if they do that.
[46:30.200 --> 46:32.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if they just keep a record of who you call.
[46:32.880 --> 46:33.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course.
[46:33.420 --> 46:35.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course they actually e-strap and listen in on the call.
[46:35.680 --> 46:36.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course they keep a record of who you call.
[46:37.120 --> 46:37.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they probably keep...
[46:37.720 --> 46:42.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they keep a record of every number you dial, so if you enter a calling card, that goes on their little itemization, too.
[46:42.540 --> 46:52.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because I'm thinking, like, if you want to call, like, for some female company or something which you would rather not get at, it might be used or it might show up in some unsavory manner.
[46:52.600 --> 46:53.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's certainly true.
[46:53.620 --> 47:11.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the second thing is, this goes back to when I was a kid, and maybe you can tell me about this, how it worked, why it worked, if it still works, um, friends of mine, they would, like, come into my apartment, they would, like, press certain numbers on the touchstone phone,
[47:12.520 --> 47:17.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: hang up, and, like, five seconds later, the phone would ring, but no one would answer.
[47:17.360 --> 47:19.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was, like, a trick all the kids knew.
[47:19.460 --> 47:21.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Could you, like, explain what that was all about?
[47:21.800 --> 47:23.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, it's a secret, we can't tell you.
[47:25.260 --> 47:27.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, no, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll let him in on it, too.
[47:27.920 --> 47:28.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: What do you think?
[47:28.500 --> 47:29.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't know.
[47:29.840 --> 47:31.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll hang up and listen, but...
[47:31.160 --> 47:31.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[47:31.580 --> 47:35.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Could you just try zero and have the operator try their 700 number?
[47:36.840 --> 47:37.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um...
[47:37.160 --> 47:37.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: That work?
[47:38.240 --> 47:39.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I think that's what he's been trying.
[47:39.800 --> 47:40.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: It wouldn't make much of a difference.
[47:40.940 --> 47:42.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: We still go through, uh...
[47:42.200 --> 47:43.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, no, zero won't be able to do it.
[47:43.920 --> 47:44.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they'll be without...
[47:44.980 --> 47:50.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'll hang up and listen to the answer about that trick, but I'm calling for my AT&T 210 phone.
[47:50.360 --> 47:51.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are you familiar with that one?
[47:51.880 --> 47:53.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, no, no.
[47:53.260 --> 47:54.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not off the top of my head.
[47:54.340 --> 47:55.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mickey Mouse phone.
[47:55.500 --> 47:55.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[47:55.900 --> 48:13.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was just wondering if the connection between AT&T and, and Disney, since like, I'm sure they had a license, you know, the, um, caricature of Mickey Mouse to use on the phone, I mean, Disney now is getting so big, they might be the next, um, target for people in your field to go after.
[48:13.840 --> 48:15.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'll hang up now and listen to your stuff.
[48:16.160 --> 48:16.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bye.
[48:16.440 --> 48:16.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[48:16.920 --> 48:17.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks.
[48:17.340 --> 48:26.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, we have printed frequencies for, uh, Disneyland and Disney World, but it's, it's always kind of hard to take on Mickey Mouse and look triumphant, but, uh, I don't know.
[48:26.520 --> 48:29.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, okay, let's explain the secret thing here of how to make your phone ring.
[48:29.380 --> 48:30.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, first, we, uh, well, we didn't...
[48:30.640 --> 48:32.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can't believe people still get excited over this.
[48:32.100 --> 48:34.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we didn't teach him the secret handshake, though.
[48:34.640 --> 48:35.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if we should...
[48:35.360 --> 48:36.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll mail him that.
[48:36.080 --> 48:36.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, okay.
[48:37.180 --> 48:47.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, um, well, if he's claiming that he did this when he was a kid, what he most likely was doing, if he was in, uh, New York City, he was dialing the old-fashioned way, just 6-6-0.
[48:47.840 --> 48:49.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: He could have been a kid two years ago.
[48:49.860 --> 48:50.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's true.
[48:50.940 --> 48:51.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[48:51.300 --> 48:51.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, um...
[48:51.820 --> 48:53.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can't assume things with our listeners.
[48:53.300 --> 48:53.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[49:02.100 --> 49:05.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, it would have been 6-6-0, which would have returned a, uh, a dial tone.
[49:05.460 --> 49:05.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[49:06.000 --> 49:25.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, um, usually, at least, uh, when, uh, 1s and 1a ESSs started popping up, they would actually connect it, uh, they would connect the crossbars on an adjunct connection to a 1 or a 1a ESS, and, uh, the particular line that was, that it was adjuncted into had speed calling.
[49:26.040 --> 49:33.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: What they would usually do is, uh, they would program in a speed calling number to, um, to call up a test number that actually did ring back.
[49:34.200 --> 49:34.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[49:34.660 --> 49:40.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that, in essence, what you were doing is, uh, if you had a rotary phone, you would dial 6-6-0 and wait for a dial tone, and then dial 1-1-2.
[49:41.240 --> 49:43.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, did you know that you could actually program those speed numbers yourself?
[49:43.960 --> 49:47.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, I'm probably the only person I know that discovered that initially.
[49:47.680 --> 49:51.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, I know other people that have done it, but, uh, maybe you're the one that discovered it, I don't know.
[49:51.180 --> 49:53.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the easiest thing to do is to deprogram ring back.
[49:53.860 --> 49:54.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[49:54.440 --> 49:57.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can just, uh, you know, program two to do something else that's invalid.
[49:58.180 --> 50:00.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: And was there limitations to where it could call?
[50:00.300 --> 50:03.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it, uh, a lot of them couldn't call anywhere.
[50:03.320 --> 50:03.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[50:03.560 --> 50:05.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some of them could only call certain exchanges.
[50:05.900 --> 50:20.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: The most useful thing that I ever found it, that I was able to do when I was still on Crossbar, was, um, to be able to, uh, dial, uh, 6-6-0 and then use, uh, carrier access codes that give you a carrier on their network.
[50:20.860 --> 50:24.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, for example, you could dial 6-6-0 and then dial 1-0-4-8-8-pound.
[50:25.180 --> 50:25.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[50:25.700 --> 50:27.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: When it was, uh, when it used to be ITT.
[50:27.880 --> 50:29.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you'd get a dial tone.
[50:29.540 --> 50:30.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[50:30.920 --> 50:38.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, nowadays, if you're still on or a 1 or a, uh, 1 or a 1-8-ESS where you can still do that, get dial 6-6-0 and immediately get the dial tone.
[50:38.940 --> 50:43.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, um, you might try dialing, uh, playing around with carrier access codes.
[50:43.980 --> 50:46.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, uh, you'd be able to actually make an ANI-free call.
[50:47.180 --> 50:47.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[50:47.780 --> 50:55.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: By going through 6-6-0 and doing, for example, the equivalent of, uh, 1-0-4-8-8-pound or a carrier that'll give you a dial tone on their network.
[50:55.380 --> 50:58.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: That can be useful sometimes, having that pesky ANI following you around.
[50:59.720 --> 51:00.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, okay.
[51:00.900 --> 51:05.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, basically, uh, 6-6-0 plus, uh, back in the old days, 6-6-0 and nothing.
[51:05.820 --> 51:07.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, 6-6-0 alone.
[51:07.200 --> 51:09.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then dialing some extra digits after that.
[51:09.260 --> 51:12.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or, 6-6-0 plus last four digits, 6-6-0 plus last seven digits.
[51:12.800 --> 51:13.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[51:13.020 --> 51:15.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: On a DMS-100, it's 6-6-0 in the entire phone numbers.
[51:16.120 --> 51:16.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: All seven digits.
[51:16.980 --> 51:19.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: On 5-ESS, it's 6-6-0 in the last four digits.
[51:19.720 --> 51:20.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[51:20.000 --> 51:24.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, then you flash the receiver, hang up, and, uh, and hang up again, and it rings.
[51:24.280 --> 51:40.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: For people that are curious on the 1s, 1As, and, uh, 5-ESSs, and also on the, uh, crossbars, after you, uh, flash the switch hook the final time, or the only time, when you're getting ready to hang up to, um, to, uh, to have the phone ring back, what you could do is,
[51:41.060 --> 51:52.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: um, at that, uh, second dial tone, you can actually, uh, dial in every Touch-Tone in sequence, and it'll beep twice to actually confirm that all the Touch-Tones are in tune.
[51:53.080 --> 51:55.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although, you know, I broke the order sometimes, and it still beeped twice.
[51:55.960 --> 51:56.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[51:56.240 --> 51:57.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's confusable.
[51:57.240 --> 51:58.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's very confusable.
[51:58.680 --> 51:59.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's go back to the phones.
[51:59.940 --> 52:00.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[52:00.360 --> 52:01.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on Off the Hook.
[52:01.340 --> 52:01.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[52:01.900 --> 52:06.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: First of all, could you tell me, um, with Ed Cummings, uh, what is the story?
[52:06.480 --> 52:08.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is he still, uh, in trouble?
[52:08.200 --> 52:09.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, he's still in prison.
[52:09.720 --> 52:12.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: His trial date has been set for September 8th.
[52:12.340 --> 52:12.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[52:12.740 --> 52:14.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: With a bail hearing for the day before.
[52:15.140 --> 52:19.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, um, my second question is this, uh, I've tried to reach you guys.
[52:19.640 --> 52:28.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've offered to, uh, you know, supply some extra help if you, maybe you need, like, a messenger, a legal messenger, or somebody to, uh, sit in the trial.
[52:29.160 --> 52:30.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, uh...
[52:30.000 --> 52:31.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've, you've left your number with us?
[52:32.140 --> 52:33.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've done it a couple times.
[52:33.680 --> 52:34.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: It never gets through.
[52:35.220 --> 52:35.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not...
[52:35.520 --> 52:37.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you've left it with us, we have it.
[52:37.520 --> 52:39.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we will call you if we need something.
[52:39.780 --> 52:39.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello?
[52:40.320 --> 52:40.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[52:40.740 --> 52:43.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: We will be calling you if we need something of that nature.
[52:43.480 --> 52:45.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: You said that, uh, you're available to do messenger-type things?
[52:46.440 --> 52:47.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, yeah.
[52:47.860 --> 52:49.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Listen, when you hang up, don't hang up.
[52:49.480 --> 52:55.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just give, give somebody a phone, and I'll, um, you know, when you go on to the next call, I'll give you my number.
[52:55.240 --> 52:56.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe I can give it over this phone.
[52:56.540 --> 52:58.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, our phone system isn't set up that way.
[52:59.200 --> 53:01.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: We don't have, we don't have an actual phone attached to this.
[53:01.360 --> 53:02.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: One minute has ended.
[53:03.060 --> 53:03.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ooh.
[53:03.600 --> 53:04.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: One minute has ended.
[53:04.360 --> 53:05.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll, when through.
[53:05.660 --> 53:05.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[53:06.020 --> 53:06.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Signal, when through.
[53:06.800 --> 53:08.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, signal, signal them however you want to signal them.
[53:09.580 --> 53:11.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, what does that mean, anyway, signal, when through?
[53:11.540 --> 53:12.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, it means usually hang up.
[53:13.000 --> 53:13.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Say, hey, I'm through.
[53:14.320 --> 53:14.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[53:14.820 --> 53:16.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: They very often hang up on you.
[53:16.780 --> 53:16.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[53:17.060 --> 53:20.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, 607 area code, uh, that's, uh...
[53:20.220 --> 53:20.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's Rochester.
[53:21.240 --> 53:21.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[53:22.000 --> 53:22.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Rochester, New York.
[53:23.120 --> 53:26.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's Delaware County, where, as far as I was concerned...
[53:26.680 --> 53:27.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Delaware County, New York?
[53:27.700 --> 53:31.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Calling from, uh, from, uh, Hamilton...
[53:31.240 --> 53:31.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not Hamilton.
[53:32.180 --> 53:35.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I was calling to, uh, Deposit, New York.
[53:35.720 --> 53:39.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I think it's, like, 20 miles away from Hancock, New York, the village of Hancock.
[53:40.120 --> 53:41.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: The town is called Deposit.
[53:41.380 --> 53:43.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: The payphone, right?
[53:43.560 --> 53:52.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: The payphones are, uh, you cannot put coins into them until the call has gone through, and the operator sits on the phone call until she hears the call's completed.
[53:52.400 --> 53:52.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[53:52.960 --> 53:56.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean, has gone through, and then, and you can put your coins in.
[53:56.220 --> 53:56.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[53:56.640 --> 53:58.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's some co-carts like that, too.
[53:58.200 --> 53:58.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[53:58.720 --> 54:01.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: That require you to put in money after you connect.
[54:01.840 --> 54:02.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[54:03.160 --> 54:05.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: So... Can I leave my number with somebody?
[54:06.340 --> 54:08.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've left it on the 2600 answering machine, right?
[54:08.960 --> 54:09.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Have you picked it up?
[54:10.040 --> 54:11.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you left it there, we have it.
[54:11.720 --> 54:14.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if we need something, we will definitely be contacting you.
[54:14.380 --> 54:22.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we should point out other people, if they want to volunteer in any way to help out, whatever their abilities, please leave information on 516-751-2600.
[54:23.140 --> 54:29.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: If we don't get back to you right away, it's because we're swamped with all kinds of calls and putting out a magazine and trying to get mail through and things like that.
[54:29.400 --> 54:30.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're an editor, right?
[54:30.640 --> 54:31.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, yeah.
[54:31.760 --> 54:32.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what they tell me.
[54:32.860 --> 54:34.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just one more thing.
[54:34.640 --> 54:34.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[54:35.000 --> 54:38.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: I do have some experience with the legal system myself.
[54:38.580 --> 54:43.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, maybe I would love to be able to give my advice through one of you guys.
[54:44.240 --> 54:44.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[54:44.800 --> 54:49.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would love to have a conversation with Mr. Ed Cummings, if I could get him to call me, collect somehow.
[54:50.180 --> 54:50.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[54:50.600 --> 54:51.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, um...
[54:51.320 --> 54:55.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there somebody, if, you know, you know my name is Phil, and I...
[54:55.000 --> 54:55.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[54:55.220 --> 54:59.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we can, uh, we can pass that information on to Bernie S., and if he's able to, you know, maybe he'll do that.
[55:00.220 --> 55:00.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[55:00.580 --> 55:04.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we can also give you the, uh, the legal person's name to contact over there as well.
[55:04.760 --> 55:08.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'd rather not talk to the lawyer until I talk to you guys first, you know what I'm saying?
[55:08.700 --> 55:09.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, I understand.
[55:09.940 --> 55:10.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, listen, we're out of time.
[55:11.060 --> 55:11.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll have one more time.
[55:11.680 --> 55:12.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[55:12.140 --> 55:12.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Twenty-five...
[55:12.480 --> 55:15.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're going to get in a lot of trouble there if you don't deal with that situation you have.
[55:16.140 --> 55:18.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, uh, I'll let him deal with that.
[55:18.280 --> 55:19.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: He better signal that he's through.
[55:19.420 --> 55:20.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: He better signal.
[55:20.360 --> 55:21.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: They'll be signaling for him.
[55:21.960 --> 55:22.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're signaling for us.
[55:22.940 --> 55:23.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're out of time.
[55:23.900 --> 55:28.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, uh, practically 11 o'clock, so another, uh, week has gone by.
[55:28.500 --> 55:29.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll be back again next week.
[55:29.820 --> 55:30.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Live, I believe, right?
[55:31.120 --> 55:31.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sure.
[55:31.680 --> 55:32.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, why not?
[55:32.640 --> 55:34.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll have updates on this story and others.
[55:35.340 --> 55:36.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: A few things we didn't get to this week.
[55:36.840 --> 55:38.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: But we'll get to it next week.
[55:38.960 --> 55:46.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Till then, this is Emmanuel Goldstein saying goodnight, stay awake, play with your phones, and, uh, let us know what happens when you do.
[55:46.680 --> 55:49.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, stay tuned for the WBAI evening news.
[55:49.740 --> 55:49.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Goodnight.