Off The Hook - 1995-11-28

[00:01.900 --> 00:07.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: At 12 noon at the Gap Store on 34th Street and Broadway.
[00:07.420 --> 00:14.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: For more information, call the National Labor Committee at 212-242-0700.
[00:15.320 --> 00:19.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's 212-242-0700.
[00:20.580 --> 00:23.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: On sale for 20% discount.
[00:23.740 --> 00:28.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: All my hands clean.
[00:29.280 --> 00:30.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, this is Eric Anderson.
[00:30.860 --> 00:32.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is Wolsey Provence.
[00:32.400 --> 00:33.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're tuned to WBAI.
[00:34.080 --> 00:34.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's up, ladies and gentlemen?
[00:35.000 --> 00:36.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is LL Cool J.
[00:36.220 --> 00:37.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is Dave Marsh.
[00:37.160 --> 00:38.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, this is Tony Bennett.
[00:38.460 --> 00:40.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, this is Julie Cruz from New York City.
[00:41.120 --> 00:43.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're listening to WBAI-FM.
[00:43.900 --> 00:45.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: The soundtrack of New York City.
[00:46.100 --> 00:48.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Non-commercial and with no additives.
[00:48.240 --> 00:49.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're listener-supported.
[00:49.680 --> 00:50.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't listen to the radio.
[00:51.040 --> 00:52.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't like stuff that sucks.
[00:52.840 --> 00:53.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: You talking to me?
[00:54.740 --> 00:56.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I love this radio station.
[00:56.500 --> 00:57.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: You talking to me?
[01:00.770 --> 01:07.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're talking to you here on WBAI in New York, where it's just about time for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:13.460 --> 01:15.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:15.920 --> 01:17.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:18.820 --> 01:20.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:21.480 --> 01:23.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now I can't make a call.
[01:24.180 --> 01:26.160]  It couldn't get much worse.
[01:29.310 --> 01:31.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Phone for the best, expect the worst.
[01:32.390 --> 01:34.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: I hope that's understood.
[01:34.210 --> 01:35.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: One day, let me know.
[02:30.310 --> 02:31.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And good evening to everybody.
[02:31.510 --> 02:33.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:33.110 --> 02:33.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Program is Off the Hook.
[02:34.530 --> 02:34.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where?
[02:35.590 --> 02:37.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're still in the new studio here.
[02:38.610 --> 02:40.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Trying to figure out where everything belongs.
[02:41.050 --> 02:41.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
[02:41.490 --> 02:41.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[02:42.230 --> 02:43.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: All these different buttons to hit.
[02:43.530 --> 02:45.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Phiber, you're on this mic over here, I believe.
[02:46.830 --> 02:47.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're mic number...
[02:47.790 --> 02:48.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Rhythm number two.
[02:49.230 --> 02:50.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the only one I didn't hit.
[02:50.390 --> 02:51.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's try it now.
[02:51.530 --> 02:51.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: There you are.
[02:52.110 --> 02:52.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, there I am.
[02:52.470 --> 02:52.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[02:52.770 --> 02:53.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of loud, too.
[02:53.510 --> 02:54.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll get the...
[02:54.770 --> 02:55.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's feedback.
[02:55.630 --> 02:56.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Feedback away from headphones.
[02:56.530 --> 02:57.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, there we go.
[02:58.530 --> 03:00.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's been a fun week, hasn't it?
[03:01.250 --> 03:02.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I suppose it has.
[03:02.470 --> 03:06.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of things broke this week as far as internet-type things.
[03:06.050 --> 03:09.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: But we also got a lot of things working for the first time, which I think is always kind of neat.
[03:11.090 --> 03:23.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Including one of the very first, most important things that I think we've ever done is the finally getting this radio show onto the net in some way.
[03:23.650 --> 03:24.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: In some way.
[03:24.650 --> 03:29.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we're talking about several possibilities as far as getting the program on.
[03:30.730 --> 03:32.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And one of them involves See You, See Me.
[03:33.270 --> 03:37.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: But the other one is something a bit more involved.
[03:37.730 --> 03:38.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: A little more old-fashioned.
[03:39.150 --> 03:40.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a little more old-fashioned, a little more traditional.
[03:42.110 --> 03:49.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll tell you, this is something that caused us no end of problems as far as just trying to get it to work in the first place.
[03:49.410 --> 03:52.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, I'm happy to say, we finally did it.
[03:53.750 --> 03:58.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: This involves actually getting the show recorded as a file.
[03:58.510 --> 04:00.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: And what we do is we use...
[04:02.050 --> 04:03.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I use Windows 95.
[04:03.630 --> 04:06.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Windows 95 has actually been working recently for me.
[04:07.270 --> 04:08.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, that's good to know.
[04:08.290 --> 04:09.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's been working for you for a while.
[04:09.590 --> 04:14.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I had some nightmares with it, and finally it's gotten to the point where I can do things.
[04:15.230 --> 04:21.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, print out things, record things onto a file, transfer that file by FTP to the net.
[04:21.390 --> 04:23.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you expect those things to happen when you do them.
[04:23.830 --> 04:24.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[04:24.470 --> 04:24.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[04:25.030 --> 04:33.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, what we did was, we took the show two weeks ago, and we recorded it onto .wav files, .wav format.
[04:34.110 --> 04:35.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's one of the audio formats.
[04:35.570 --> 04:35.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[04:36.190 --> 04:38.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Came out, an hour-long show, audio.
[04:39.090 --> 04:40.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: How big do you think it would be?
[04:41.070 --> 04:42.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, I know how big it was.
[04:42.110 --> 04:43.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, so I guess it's kind of about...
[04:43.630 --> 04:44.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: About 40 megs.
[04:44.170 --> 04:45.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: About 42 megs.
[04:45.150 --> 04:46.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: 42 and a half megs, actually.
[04:46.630 --> 04:47.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot.
[04:47.630 --> 04:49.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's pretty big.
[04:49.570 --> 04:53.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, we couldn't really expect people to download 43 megs.
[04:53.470 --> 04:56.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, no matter what connection is, that's a lot.
[04:56.510 --> 05:00.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, we looked around for a way of compressing.
[05:00.630 --> 05:05.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we found this neat utility called GSM, which allows you to compress.
[05:05.250 --> 05:09.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Unbeknownst to us, you can't compress .wav files on that utility.
[05:10.090 --> 05:12.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can compress .au files.
[05:12.410 --> 05:20.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, what we had to do was convert the .wav file to a .au file, and then run a program called Toast, and compress that down.
[05:21.170 --> 05:23.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, we got it down to around 6 megs.
[05:23.890 --> 05:28.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: But not before we managed to completely crash our system in the process, and we still don't know why.
[05:29.390 --> 05:37.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because something to do with that .wav file, and trying to run the wrong processes on it, it just kind of made things not too cool.
[05:38.830 --> 05:49.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we just discovered this yesterday, actually, where for some reason the .wav file was hanging the entire system every time it was backed up, and we don't know why, so we just deleted it, and it's gone.
[05:49.050 --> 06:01.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, the important thing, we don't need to hear that, the important thing is that you can now get that show two weeks ago, and hopefully, we're doing this as an experimental basis, you know, to see how things work.
[06:01.910 --> 06:05.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: But hopefully, you'll be able to do it every week, and hopefully, we'll be able to get some old shows on there as well.
[06:05.570 --> 06:17.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you FTP, of course, you have to have net access, if you FTP to ftp.2600.com, and go into the slash pub slash radio directory, there should be all kinds of directions there as to exactly what you have to do.
[06:17.210 --> 06:33.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to, first of all, get the file, and then you have to uncompress it using the Untoast program, which is available through the GSM utility, which you can find using Archie, and then you have to have the ability to either play a .au file or convert it to a .wav file.
[06:33.790 --> 06:34.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: What do you think?
[06:34.410 --> 06:35.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: Is that easy enough to understand?
[06:35.990 --> 06:38.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: No, when you un-GSM it, you can just play it as an audio file.
[06:38.530 --> 06:38.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[06:39.350 --> 06:41.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to sound that good.
[06:41.330 --> 06:42.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: We should warn people.
[06:42.310 --> 06:45.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to sound like you hear right now, unless, of course, you're listening to the file.
[06:45.350 --> 06:48.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's going to sound a little bit...
[06:48.150 --> 06:49.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's telephone quality.
[06:49.330 --> 06:50.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, not even.
[06:50.450 --> 06:54.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, it's telephone quality to a degree, but I think you get more bass.
[06:55.670 --> 06:58.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: But the music doesn't sound all that great.
[06:58.150 --> 06:59.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds kind of warbly.
[06:59.290 --> 07:00.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not for music.
[07:00.330 --> 07:01.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not for music, exactly.
[07:01.510 --> 07:03.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: GSM is for telephones.
[07:03.550 --> 07:04.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, so it is.
[07:05.250 --> 07:06.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, that's what they use over in Europe, isn't it?
[07:06.730 --> 07:07.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, yeah.
[07:07.730 --> 07:11.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: In fact, the audio format is based on telephones also.
[07:12.050 --> 07:12.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[07:12.690 --> 07:14.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: In fact, you, uh...
[07:14.550 --> 07:26.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: Actually, what I was explaining to you the other night is that, um, wave file format, which is actually called the R-I-F-F format, actually preserves a lot more sound resolution than, uh, AU files do.
[07:27.130 --> 07:31.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: So when you actually convert from a wave to an audio file, you lose a lot of that sound resolution.
[07:32.410 --> 07:36.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: Because, uh, normally an audio file only has a, uh, sampling rate of 8 kilohertz.
[07:36.830 --> 07:36.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[07:37.250 --> 07:40.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: And a wave file can actually record using, uh, CD quality.
[07:41.270 --> 07:41.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[07:41.750 --> 07:50.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: So obviously, if you're, uh, chopping all that, uh, all that fidelity off, and you're only left with 8 kilohertz of, uh, bandwidth left, that's about the same as, uh, as a telephone call.
[07:51.570 --> 07:51.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[07:52.510 --> 07:55.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's just, I think it's just kind of neat that we actually got to the point.
[07:55.170 --> 07:56.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, 6 megs is still a lot to download.
[07:57.170 --> 07:57.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[07:57.290 --> 08:00.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you can actually get an hour's worth of, of recording onto that.
[08:00.510 --> 08:03.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: And this way, people in Japan can hear our program for the first time.
[08:04.230 --> 08:13.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's a way of reaching out and expanding, uh, expanding the WBAI stranglehold on, on, uh, alternative, uh, speech and, and technology and things like that.
[08:14.010 --> 08:15.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: All those other neat things.
[08:15.290 --> 08:16.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, we're going to try something different tonight.
[08:17.210 --> 08:22.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know how we're always complaining about how people, um, are getting cut off after 30 rings?
[08:22.850 --> 08:27.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, with this new phone system we have now, we have the ability to grab each call and put it on hold.
[08:27.330 --> 08:36.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't mind being on hold for who knows how long, maybe half an hour, maybe, maybe 40 minutes, if you don't mind that, then call us now at 212-279-3400.
[08:36.590 --> 08:41.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we will put every single one of the calls on hold, which means everyone else trying to get through is going to get a busy signal.
[08:42.270 --> 08:46.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but you won't get disconnected unless, unless I knock against it.
[08:46.850 --> 08:52.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then, um, you know, we, we, we can at least not complain about, uh, you know, about 9x disconnecting.
[08:53.570 --> 08:59.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, you have to pay for the phone call, you know, unless you have untimed units or unless the, what, penny a minute or whatever doesn't mean much to you.
[09:00.670 --> 09:09.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, speaking of the penny a minute, now I've heard a rumor, maybe you could, uh, you could verify this, that 9x is going to be eliminating that penny a minute, uh, surcharge for digital ISDN connections.
[09:10.090 --> 09:11.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, at this point, it's, uh, only a rumor.
[09:12.090 --> 09:16.070]  [SPEAKER_22]: I haven't heard anything to, uh, confirm nor deny that it's going to happen.
[09:16.190 --> 09:17.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: Have you asked the, uh, the 9x people?
[09:17.650 --> 09:21.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: Actually, uh, they've been so busy I haven't been able to get through to them over the past couple of days.
[09:22.010 --> 09:33.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, it's, I don't know what it is, but I called information yesterday and I got the recording saying, well, sorry, we can't offer you normal, normal, uh, you know, information service, whatever their normal information service is.
[09:34.590 --> 09:37.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, okay, now, how would you do this?
[09:37.370 --> 09:41.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess you pick up this line here and you put it on hold, okay?
[09:42.090 --> 09:45.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you pick up that one, put that one on hold, going through every single...
[09:45.090 --> 09:46.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I disconnected somebody.
[09:46.330 --> 09:46.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: How did I do that?
[09:47.110 --> 09:48.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: No, I think they hung out.
[09:49.230 --> 09:49.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[09:50.870 --> 09:52.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have one open line, folks.
[09:52.390 --> 09:54.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: One open line, and six are on hold right now.
[09:55.470 --> 09:59.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I think the people that are on hold right now are able to actually hear my voice on their telephone.
[09:59.370 --> 09:59.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of neat.
[10:00.270 --> 10:00.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Someone else hung up.
[10:01.070 --> 10:01.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's five on hold.
[10:01.910 --> 10:03.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't play games with us, folks.
[10:03.210 --> 10:06.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is like something that, uh, you know, this is high technology here.
[10:06.170 --> 10:07.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to, you don't want to mess around with it.
[10:07.830 --> 10:08.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: You might break something.
[10:09.370 --> 10:16.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, now, as far as, uh, we neglected to mention this last week, but, um, we had said that Bernie S.
[10:16.190 --> 10:24.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: was going to, uh, have a very important hearing, uh, a week ago last Friday, uh, and, uh, I'm sure a lot of people were wondering what exactly happened there.
[10:24.850 --> 10:25.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good question.
[10:26.330 --> 10:27.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: You just put the calls on hold?
[10:27.630 --> 10:27.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[10:27.790 --> 10:28.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there were two more came in.
[10:28.790 --> 10:29.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[10:29.610 --> 10:38.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, so what happened was, um, uh, the, the hearing was postponed, uh, two weeks, and it's going to take place this Friday.
[10:38.450 --> 10:39.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully we'll hear from Bernie tonight.
[10:39.530 --> 10:41.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're not sure if we will, but hopefully we will.
[10:41.850 --> 11:03.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, he's basically, he's facing going back to prison, depending on what this, what this local judge has to say about, uh, about the whole case involving, uh, him being in federal prison for, uh, for seven months because he had a red box in his possession and various other electronic things that could have been used in bad ways but were never proven to have been and never alleged to have been.
[11:04.270 --> 11:06.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, that person hung up, too.
[11:06.990 --> 11:07.110]  Okay.
[11:08.030 --> 11:08.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
[11:09.050 --> 11:11.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, we'll keep our fingers crossed on that.
[11:11.950 --> 11:14.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can, uh, of course, finger the, uh, Bernie S.
[11:14.450 --> 11:18.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: at 2600.com site to find out the latest when, when that happens.
[11:18.330 --> 11:20.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: As soon as we hear something, we'll know.
[11:20.550 --> 11:20.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is it?
[11:20.970 --> 11:22.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: People just keep calling and hanging up?
[11:22.430 --> 11:22.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the...
[11:22.910 --> 11:23.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a hold button doesn't work.
[11:24.030 --> 11:24.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's disconnecting them.
[11:25.730 --> 11:26.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[11:26.230 --> 11:28.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think they're just hearing silence and deciding to hang up.
[11:29.290 --> 11:31.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, um, he's optimistic.
[11:31.670 --> 11:40.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's been working, you know, for a couple of weeks now and, uh, he's, he's, I think, uh, making the most out of, out of, uh, life in the free world.
[11:40.670 --> 11:46.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully, uh, that free world will elect to keep him there and not send him back to some place he has no business being.
[11:47.510 --> 11:49.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, hopefully we'll hear from him this hour.
[11:49.230 --> 11:52.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: If not, we'll certainly, uh, report back as to, uh, as to what's going on.
[11:52.370 --> 11:56.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, two books are sort of out.
[11:57.050 --> 11:59.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're not out yet, but they're getting to the stage where they're going to be out.
[11:59.950 --> 12:11.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: One is, of course, Takedown by, uh, John Markoff and, uh, um, Mr., uh, Shimomura, Tsutomo Shimomura, who, uh, helped track down Kevin Mitnick last, last February.
[12:12.910 --> 12:21.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that book is, is, uh, is, is in the hands of several people and I've seen a copy of it and it's kind of, kind of neat.
[12:22.370 --> 12:24.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of interesting to read all these things that are, that are happening.
[12:25.710 --> 12:31.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and also kind of distressing to see the way in which, uh, certain things came about.
[12:32.210 --> 12:38.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Another book which is also out about the same subject, not out yet, but it's, it's, you know, copies are, are floating around and it will be out in January.
[12:38.430 --> 12:41.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's called The Fugitive Game Online with Kevin Mitnick written by Jonathan Litman.
[12:41.910 --> 12:49.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think this book is, uh, is, is much more accurate as far as, uh, as, as getting the, uh, the facts right.
[12:49.470 --> 13:10.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of this actually, uh, is, is critical and, uh, and kind of, uh, asking a lot of questions about the whole investigation in the first place and, um, what, what exactly, a New York Times reporter was doing chasing after an alleged, uh, computer hacker and then writing front page stories in the New York Times.
[13:10.950 --> 13:12.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, I think we know what he was doing.
[13:13.110 --> 13:13.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, we do.
[13:13.650 --> 13:15.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: He was making $750,000.
[13:15.410 --> 13:18.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: It would appear that way based on the, uh, the contract that he got from Hyperion.
[13:18.990 --> 13:30.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but there's all kinds of, uh, of questions that need to be asked and, and I think reading the two books concurrently would be probably the, uh, the best way to understand exactly what's, uh, what's happening.
[13:31.450 --> 13:34.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, there's a part in here, actually there's a couple of different parts.
[13:35.230 --> 13:44.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I wish I had written down the page number but it's, um, it's, it's the part where they're listening in on a cellular phone call and, and, and guess who they hear?
[13:44.730 --> 13:45.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: They hear me.
[13:45.870 --> 13:46.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[13:46.430 --> 13:52.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of, that's kind of, uh, distressing to see a name in the, uh, in, in, in the book like that.
[13:53.690 --> 13:55.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm trying to find it.
[13:55.850 --> 13:56.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: I really am.
[13:57.570 --> 13:59.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just, uh, very hard to, uh, to track these things down.
[14:00.310 --> 14:01.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, no index, I suppose.
[14:01.930 --> 14:02.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: No index yet.
[14:02.770 --> 14:09.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, there's, there's a table of contents at the beginning but all the chapter numbers are chapter zero because they haven't gotten around to, to numbering them.
[14:09.450 --> 14:11.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why they can't number the chapters when they put out a book.
[14:11.750 --> 14:13.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that seems like the easiest thing to do.
[14:13.610 --> 14:21.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I guess, I guess they just I will find that part, uh, as soon as, as soon as I find it.
[14:21.870 --> 14:26.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, there's something else going on too which I think is kind of, kind of weird.
[14:26.970 --> 14:28.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, have you been reading the media recently?
[14:28.930 --> 14:41.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: You might have read the story about, uh, some kid out in Long Island that got busted for, allegedly impersonating phone company employees routing, uh, routing phone lines to open trunks so you could make free phone calls and things like that.
[14:41.410 --> 14:42.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't hear about that.
[14:42.670 --> 14:47.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, reading about it in places like Computer World, you would, uh, you would think it's the crime of the century.
[14:47.890 --> 14:49.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, not just like somebody making free phone calls.
[14:50.030 --> 14:56.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'd think it was somebody, uh, you know, breaking into the building, stealing the phone system, smashing all the computers, maybe, uh, killing a few people at the same time.
[14:57.570 --> 15:11.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, that's, that's the, the, you know, the, the sober, uh, tone that they, that they take when they describe this kind of, uh, Uh, so of course they come in with guns blazing and, um, and, um, haul people off to prison for, for unknown amounts of time.
[15:12.090 --> 15:13.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, but this particular case
[15:18.070 --> 15:22.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: they were, they were talking about what made him do it.
[15:22.670 --> 15:24.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, you know who Don Delaney is?
[15:24.690 --> 15:24.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[15:25.370 --> 15:26.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he, he, he arrested you, didn't he?
[15:27.050 --> 15:27.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he did at one point.
[15:28.110 --> 15:30.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: He seems to be going around arresting everybody recently.
[15:30.550 --> 15:33.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a New York State police, um, what's his, what's his official position?
[15:34.170 --> 15:37.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just, uh, head of the computer crimes unit or something?
[15:38.110 --> 15:42.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Actually, the last I heard, uh, a couple of years ago, uh, he was supposedly retiring.
[15:42.490 --> 15:45.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: He has not retired unless he's, uh, freelancing.
[15:45.990 --> 15:48.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he's still going around arresting people left and right.
[15:49.430 --> 15:54.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, this particular person that he arrested, um, he, he made a point of saying this to the media.
[15:54.930 --> 16:00.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen it pop up in very many places, and I think it's something that, that we should all, uh, take notice of.
[16:01.070 --> 16:10.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, this kid, allegedly, well, actually, I guess this part isn't allegedly, uh, he received as a present from his parents a subscription to 2600 Magazine.
[16:10.910 --> 16:20.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the, the way that all these, all these media people are, are reporting this, it's as if you get a subscription, to 2600, and, and like, right away, that's, that's it.
[16:20.110 --> 16:22.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're down that road and there's no coming back.
[16:22.370 --> 16:24.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, and look, his parents did it to him.
[16:24.210 --> 16:25.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: His parents got him to subscribe.
[16:25.930 --> 16:37.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, how many, how many maniacs are out there that have like, taken out entire post offices or whatever, and they've got like, they, they've got copies of, of, of today's cop or whatever it is they read.
[16:37.350 --> 16:37.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Guns and ammo.
[16:38.130 --> 16:45.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and, and, and they report that in the newspaper that, uh, you know, this guy's parents got him a, you know, a copy of, uh, of that magazine.
[16:46.250 --> 16:50.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, what people read is not, uh, something that you condemn them for.
[16:50.710 --> 16:58.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: What they, what magazines they subscribe to, what, uh, what films they watch, but increasingly, it seems to be something that, uh, that we're paying attention to.
[16:59.330 --> 17:01.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, we saw that with the, with the Bernie S case.
[17:02.690 --> 17:06.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, and that was a, a bit of a, uh, of a severe, uh, example of that.
[17:07.570 --> 17:08.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.
[17:08.210 --> 17:10.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you, what do you think of that kind of, uh, that kind of way
[17:14.470 --> 17:15.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: kind of bugs me?
[17:15.830 --> 17:18.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: Um, I'm curious to see how this case actually turns out.
[17:19.330 --> 17:19.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[17:19.810 --> 17:22.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I think it has turned out and I'm not sure exactly how it's turned out.
[17:22.430 --> 17:23.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe somebody can enlighten me on that.
[17:23.590 --> 17:29.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, but I just, you know, this is the same guy, Delaney, I'm talking about, the New York state cop.
[17:30.190 --> 17:32.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he testified before Congress.
[17:32.250 --> 17:34.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is, this is that time I went down to testify before Congress.
[17:34.650 --> 17:36.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Markey and all those lunatics.
[17:36.470 --> 17:36.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[17:36.990 --> 17:43.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, who, basically it was, it was easier being on the Geraldo thing than it was, uh, dealing with these people because they just didn't hear anything you had to say.
[17:43.710 --> 17:45.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: They just were speaking in sound bites.
[17:45.510 --> 17:47.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and he just could not get through to them.
[17:47.210 --> 17:53.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, he may have gotten through to them when he said that magazines like 2600 should be regulated like pornography and not distributed to minors.
[17:54.210 --> 18:03.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and, and he goes on record as saying that he's personally witnessed me, as if I'm doing this surreptitiously, handing magazines to people under 18 years of old.
[18:04.790 --> 18:07.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is, this is the crime that I'm being accused of.
[18:07.590 --> 18:11.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's handing, you know, publications of written material to people underage.
[18:11.850 --> 18:13.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, yeah, you know, and these people are nodding.
[18:13.450 --> 18:17.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: These, these senators or representatives or whatever the hell they are, they're nodding their heads.
[18:17.810 --> 18:19.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is, this is a problem.
[18:19.250 --> 18:20.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: We've got to, we've got to do something about this.
[18:20.830 --> 18:26.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, America is under, under, you know, some sort of state of siege now by the hackers.
[18:26.670 --> 18:29.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we have to regulate what they say and what they read and what they pass around.
[18:30.130 --> 18:30.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: You should be flattered.
[18:30.510 --> 18:32.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's almost as if you're this modern day Socrates.
[18:32.370 --> 18:33.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like Larry Flint.
[18:33.770 --> 18:35.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, apart from that, it's, it's,
[18:41.810 --> 18:44.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: I found the section of the book, finally, that I was looking for.
[18:45.210 --> 18:47.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just read you a very brief part of this.
[18:47.490 --> 18:50.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is from The Fugitive Game by Jonathan Lipman coming out in January.
[18:51.830 --> 18:55.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: The next trip was in Markov's car, it says, Orzak.
[18:56.350 --> 18:57.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who's Orzak?
[18:58.450 --> 18:58.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't he like that?
[18:58.810 --> 18:59.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: And what planet is he from?
[18:59.830 --> 19:00.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: A Klingon or something.
[19:02.130 --> 19:06.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to go back and see what Orzak, Orzak has a cell scope, I know that.
[19:08.270 --> 19:14.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, this is my fault because I should have I should have read the entire book before I'm going around Maybe he is the cell scope.
[19:14.350 --> 19:15.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, Orzak is not the cell scope.
[19:15.910 --> 19:22.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Orzak is a character I think involved in tracking down the evil Mitnick.
[19:22.530 --> 19:25.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so Orzak is on the good side and he's tracking down the evil person.
[19:26.230 --> 19:28.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the next trip was in Markov's car, says Orzak.
[19:28.650 --> 19:31.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Shimomura said it would be a good idea to change cars.
[19:31.550 --> 19:33.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Markov had a purple four-door geoprism.
[19:34.090 --> 19:35.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: A purple four-door geoprism.
[19:35.970 --> 19:36.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[19:36.910 --> 19:39.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember us joking about the ugly colored cars.
[19:40.610 --> 19:45.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Back at the cell site, it takes about ten minutes to transfer the equipment to Markov's car.
[19:46.030 --> 19:53.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Orzak hooks the cell scope into the cigarette adapter, plugs the cell scope into his laptop, and attaches a 15-foot coaxial cable to the portable antenna.
[19:54.530 --> 19:56.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Markov starts up his rental car.
[19:56.450 --> 19:59.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: I knew it was a rental car because you always get a geoprism when you rent a car.
[19:59.470 --> 20:00.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about the purple part.
[20:00.450 --> 20:01.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I never got a purple one.
[20:01.730 --> 20:02.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: He starts up his rental car.
[20:02.990 --> 20:04.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: The cell scope begins scanning.
[20:05.510 --> 20:10.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And within a minute, for the first time, instead of modem breath...
[20:10.410 --> 20:11.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: You like that term?
[20:11.630 --> 20:12.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Modem breath?
[20:12.230 --> 20:12.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Modem breath.
[20:12.950 --> 20:17.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what they call it when they hear a modem screeching on the cellulophone, I guess.
[20:17.830 --> 20:21.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of modem breath, they're plucking voices out of the sky.
[20:21.530 --> 20:22.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's Mitnick.
[20:22.570 --> 20:24.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's talking to somebody they know.
[20:25.510 --> 20:27.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that Emmanuel Goldstein?
[20:27.710 --> 20:28.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: asks Seymour Moore.
[20:30.550 --> 20:31.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: His tone of...
[20:31.730 --> 20:33.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: one of awe and respect.
[20:35.130 --> 20:36.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: They should have put that in, I think.
[20:36.970 --> 20:38.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: I would have liked to have seen that.
[20:38.470 --> 20:40.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah, replies Markov.
[20:40.190 --> 20:41.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it is.
[20:41.350 --> 20:43.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: The team quiets down so they can hear.
[20:43.410 --> 20:45.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mitnick makes it easy, addressing Emmanuel by name.
[20:46.070 --> 20:49.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: The hacker seems in good humor, talking about the cool and rainy weather.
[20:49.590 --> 20:52.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: They were mentioning names of other people, recalls Orsak.
[20:52.850 --> 20:53.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: How is so-and-so doing?
[20:55.310 --> 20:59.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mitnick's voice coming over the local cellular is the loudest, but both parties are clearly recognizable.
[20:59.450 --> 21:03.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody says so, but the three men in the car know at least one of them may be breaking the law.
[21:03.630 --> 21:06.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: One of them being the people inside the car, not the people on the phone.
[21:06.810 --> 21:11.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: The federal subpoena doesn't give unauthorized individuals the right to eavesdrop on voice calls.
[21:12.590 --> 21:15.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that pretty much gives you an idea of the tone of this book.
[21:16.030 --> 21:20.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they report the facts or they question the way in which the facts are obtained.
[21:21.590 --> 21:25.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw the same basic passage in Takedown, the Markov Shimomura book.
[21:26.610 --> 21:29.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they describe pretty much the same scenario.
[21:30.170 --> 21:31.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Your name was mentioned.
[21:31.630 --> 21:32.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why?
[21:32.250 --> 21:35.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because apparently your name came up in the conversation that I was having with Mitnick at some point.
[21:36.910 --> 21:38.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: They just try to drag everybody into this.
[21:38.810 --> 21:40.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: In furtherance of the conspiracy.
[21:40.370 --> 21:40.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: But the thing...
[21:40.870 --> 21:44.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's interesting about that is that they say that only one side of the conversation could be heard.
[21:44.510 --> 21:45.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: That is my voice.
[21:45.670 --> 21:45.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[21:45.910 --> 21:46.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: And not Mitnick's.
[21:47.190 --> 21:57.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: So my voice is coming out of a speaker down there in North Carolina someplace with all these people gathered around inside a purple car and they can't even hear Mitnick.
[21:57.890 --> 22:00.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're just listening to what I'm saying and I'm talking...
[22:00.330 --> 22:01.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying something about you.
[22:01.430 --> 22:02.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what I'm saying.
[22:02.450 --> 22:03.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: I really should hear this.
[22:03.790 --> 22:05.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, I think I've got the right to.
[22:05.810 --> 22:08.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're running around trying to track down Mitnick based on that.
[22:08.610 --> 22:09.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's...
[22:10.130 --> 22:11.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a crazy scenario.
[22:12.710 --> 22:15.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: No update on Kevin's situation as of yet.
[22:16.050 --> 22:17.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I expect to hear something pretty soon.
[22:18.190 --> 22:19.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: But that's...
[22:19.170 --> 22:20.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what's going on as far as that goes.
[22:21.430 --> 22:22.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Someone found this in the trash.
[22:23.290 --> 22:23.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think of that?
[22:24.430 --> 22:26.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a NYNEX...
[22:26.150 --> 22:28.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Internal NYNEX brochure.
[22:28.250 --> 22:29.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: NYNEX brand identity?
[22:29.890 --> 22:31.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: We encourage people to send us their trash.
[22:32.750 --> 22:35.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's better, I should point out, when you...
[22:35.190 --> 22:36.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: Especially when it's marketing trash.
[22:36.470 --> 22:42.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sort through it first before you send it to us because, you know, we really don't have the time to go through all kinds of odds and ends.
[22:42.190 --> 22:47.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you find something of interest, namely involving the phone company or involving, you know, computers...
[22:47.730 --> 22:48.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is useful.
[22:48.530 --> 22:49.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: Protect our logo.
[22:49.730 --> 22:50.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Use the R in a circle symbol.
[22:51.770 --> 22:53.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you have to do to protect the NYNEX...
[22:53.450 --> 22:56.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we can use the NYNEX logo, but we have to put R in a circle.
[22:56.630 --> 22:57.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I understand.
[22:57.830 --> 22:58.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense.
[22:58.410 --> 23:03.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, we should point out, this is for NYNEX employees.
[23:03.330 --> 23:04.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: NYNEX employees.
[23:04.210 --> 23:06.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's who it's meant to be for, NYNEX employees.
[23:07.870 --> 23:10.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Any other tips for NYNEX employees that we can hand out?
[23:10.850 --> 23:13.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, they have the...
[23:14.490 --> 23:15.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.
[23:17.590 --> 23:20.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just one of those things you can't picture on the radio.
[23:20.830 --> 23:21.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's got to be the biggest...
[23:22.930 --> 23:25.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Windows 95 poster I've ever seen.
[23:25.110 --> 23:26.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: It takes up the entire studio.
[23:27.490 --> 23:30.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: You walk through the street with that?
[23:30.330 --> 23:30.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[23:30.910 --> 23:31.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.
[23:32.230 --> 23:33.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so what else do we have?
[23:33.790 --> 23:39.350]  [SPEAKER_22]: They have how to keep their logo in the clear, and they have a picture of the logo with dotted lines around it.
[23:39.710 --> 23:40.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: Keep it in the clear.
[23:40.430 --> 23:40.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: What does that mean?
[23:41.090 --> 23:44.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: It means that they don't want you to put your print too close to their logo.
[23:45.510 --> 23:46.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: So there has to be this...
[23:46.910 --> 23:48.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Probably like a grubby fingerprint?
[23:48.430 --> 23:48.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: Is that what they mean by that?
[23:48.810 --> 23:50.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: No, print as in, like, print.
[23:50.390 --> 23:50.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, okay.
[23:51.970 --> 23:52.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: Text.
[23:52.490 --> 23:56.310]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, certain area of safety around their logo.
[23:56.550 --> 23:59.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, so it's like a do-not-fly zone around the NYNEX thing.
[24:00.230 --> 24:00.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[24:01.470 --> 24:03.070]  [SPEAKER_22]: And why do they use John A.
[24:03.250 --> 24:03.830]  [SPEAKER_22]: Sample now?
[24:03.930 --> 24:05.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Whatever happened to John Q.
[24:05.190 --> 24:06.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: Public or any of those people?
[24:06.730 --> 24:07.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: I think he sued or something.
[24:08.010 --> 24:08.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know.
[24:08.210 --> 24:08.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: John A.
[24:08.810 --> 24:09.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: Sample.
[24:09.270 --> 24:09.270]  John A.
[24:09.330 --> 24:09.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sample.
[24:09.790 --> 24:11.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's in the 311 area code or something.
[24:12.990 --> 24:13.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[24:13.810 --> 24:17.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I think we're ready to actually try some phone calls with the new method.
[24:17.690 --> 24:18.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think?
[24:18.330 --> 24:19.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, why not?
[24:19.250 --> 24:19.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[24:21.570 --> 24:22.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
[24:22.170 --> 24:25.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: First, I have to make sure that everything is in the right place.
[24:26.150 --> 24:27.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not, obviously.
[24:27.230 --> 24:27.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, there we go.
[24:28.570 --> 24:30.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I have to hit the right buttons.
[24:31.210 --> 24:33.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we are ready to...
[24:34.430 --> 24:35.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Something isn't right.
[24:35.810 --> 24:37.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: We're getting delay in the studio.
[24:37.850 --> 24:39.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I have to hit...
[24:39.090 --> 24:40.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's this button.
[24:40.170 --> 24:40.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: How's that?
[24:40.930 --> 24:41.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that better?
[24:41.650 --> 24:41.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[24:41.910 --> 24:42.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I fixed it.
[24:43.110 --> 24:44.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what that is.
[24:44.410 --> 24:45.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how that happened.
[24:46.570 --> 24:47.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[24:47.790 --> 24:52.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's take our first phone call at 212-279-3400.
[24:53.230 --> 24:56.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, forgive us for sounding as if we don't know what we're doing because we don't.
[24:56.310 --> 24:58.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a new system and we're still getting used to it.
[24:58.850 --> 25:05.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I believe this week, since we put everybody on hold, we'll be able to just hit that neat little next button just to go from one call to next.
[25:06.510 --> 25:07.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what it's for.
[25:08.090 --> 25:10.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's go to call number one, who I suspect will not be Rebel.
[25:11.910 --> 25:12.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[25:12.550 --> 25:12.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[25:13.330 --> 25:14.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello, Emmanuel.
[25:14.270 --> 25:14.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, go ahead.
[25:15.710 --> 25:18.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, among some other things, I've been cruising through some back issues.
[25:19.610 --> 25:20.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Cruising through back issues.
[25:20.550 --> 25:25.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: In the summer 1992 issue, it says, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Phone System.
[25:25.450 --> 25:26.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Written by Bill SF, right?
[25:26.850 --> 25:27.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is correct.
[25:28.430 --> 25:36.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: This paragraph in here says, Can you make your CO fail to complete a call either by playing with the switch hook or dialing strange numbers?
[25:37.070 --> 25:41.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you are in the United States, did you ever do something that will produce a recording?
[25:41.310 --> 25:42.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're sorry.
[25:42.550 --> 25:46.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Your call did not go through after about 15 seconds of nothing.
[25:46.370 --> 25:54.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: What exactly happened at that point that allegedly is some kind of backdoor into trunk manipulation, I guess?
[25:54.530 --> 25:57.130]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, now, nothing at all.
[25:57.450 --> 26:06.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: But actually, I remember this happening a number of years ago when I lived in Queens and I was still served by a crossbar switch.
[26:07.390 --> 26:21.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: And what would happen is if you called an 800 number and you let it connect and then you let them disconnect and you stayed on the phone and it would revert back to silence after a few moments, after the disconnect.
[26:21.970 --> 26:24.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: And at that point, you were still on an open trunk.
[26:24.770 --> 26:25.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh-huh.
[26:25.550 --> 26:31.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: And if you then waited and obviously didn't do anything, didn't key pulse anything, then eventually you would get that recording.
[26:32.090 --> 26:33.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Your call did not go through.
[26:33.990 --> 26:38.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: Don't expect to get that now in the age of signaling system 7 and digital switches.
[26:38.870 --> 26:40.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Although, weird things do happen.
[26:40.430 --> 26:44.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I was talking to you on the phone a couple of weeks ago and somehow...
[26:44.110 --> 26:46.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Did we get disconnected or did one of us hang up?
[26:46.550 --> 26:49.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Somehow we got disconnected and this other party came.
[26:49.490 --> 26:53.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard our phone ringing and then somebody was calling and leaving a message for somebody else.
[26:53.190 --> 26:54.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: That was rather peculiar.
[26:54.010 --> 26:54.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: That was very strange.
[26:55.110 --> 26:56.650]  [SPEAKER_22]: But that was something completely different.
[26:57.410 --> 26:58.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: Things like that still happen, though.
[26:58.990 --> 26:59.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you might...
[26:59.570 --> 27:01.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not the same thing as routing an open trunk.
[27:01.410 --> 27:03.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, but we did something to make that happen.
[27:03.310 --> 27:03.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: What did we do?
[27:04.290 --> 27:04.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: We...
[27:04.690 --> 27:07.270]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, apparently it seemed that when I played the...
[27:07.770 --> 27:09.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: I played an echo...
[27:10.230 --> 27:12.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: echo suppressor tone on...
[27:12.930 --> 27:14.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: I have ISDN and I was talking...
[27:14.730 --> 27:16.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: I was talking to you on a normal...
[27:16.250 --> 27:17.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: You were on your normal telephone, right?
[27:18.330 --> 27:18.690]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[27:18.950 --> 27:23.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: I clicked over on 3-Way and called a number that plays an echo suppressor tone beforehand.
[27:23.890 --> 27:28.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: When I clicked it in, Emmanuel could no longer hear me talking and I had to...
[27:28.870 --> 27:31.130]  [SPEAKER_22]: And what did we do to actually get me back?
[27:31.310 --> 27:33.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I had to hang up and call you back.
[27:33.150 --> 27:33.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, really?
[27:33.670 --> 27:34.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: That was the only way we could do it.
[27:34.590 --> 27:37.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, it was kind of peculiar but suddenly the conversation went only one way.
[27:37.950 --> 27:39.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: Basically, I wound up with somebody else instead of you.
[27:39.990 --> 27:40.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[27:40.450 --> 27:40.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[27:41.370 --> 27:42.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Another thing here.
[27:42.350 --> 27:55.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, concerning SS7, I might have gotten a whole of you earlier concerning how do 1A ESSs communicate with these digital switches if the 1A ESS is not a native digital type of switch?
[27:55.610 --> 27:57.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: Currently, they do not in NYNEX.
[27:58.630 --> 28:06.190]  [SPEAKER_22]: NYNEX is getting rid of all the 1s and 1As in favor of upgrading to DMS-100s or 5ESSs.
[28:06.250 --> 28:08.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's a heck of a lot of 1As floating around now.
[28:08.230 --> 28:09.430]  [SPEAKER_22]: Not in the city.
[28:09.550 --> 28:11.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because I'm over in the Atlantic land and like everywhere where it's like, you know...
[28:11.890 --> 28:12.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, in Bell Atlantic.
[28:12.950 --> 28:13.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's 1As everywhere.
[28:13.750 --> 28:15.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bell Atlantic is the exception.
[28:15.250 --> 28:21.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: They had such a saturation of 1A ESSs that they were actually retrofitted to actually do SS7.
[28:21.610 --> 28:23.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: 475 exchanges at DMS.
[28:23.610 --> 28:24.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, is it 1A?
[28:24.890 --> 28:24.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[28:24.990 --> 28:25.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: In New York City?
[28:25.530 --> 28:26.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, there's a bunch of them.
[28:26.550 --> 28:26.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's a couple.
[28:27.210 --> 28:27.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's a couple.
[28:28.050 --> 28:30.070]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's still a 1A at 13th Street.
[28:30.130 --> 28:30.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: Some uptown?
[28:30.950 --> 28:38.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: But the thing you have to remember, though, is that the majority of offices in the city that still have 1As have other switches that are digital.
[28:38.270 --> 28:39.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can get those.
[28:39.330 --> 28:39.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[28:39.590 --> 28:42.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: There are no CEOs in the city that solely have a 1A and that's it.
[28:43.010 --> 28:46.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: But that is true in other places like in Bell Atlantic.
[28:46.250 --> 28:50.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: And in those cases, they have retrofitted 1As to be digital capable.
[28:51.010 --> 28:55.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, in other words, we call it 1As can handle ISDN traffic.
[28:55.870 --> 28:57.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, they can.
[28:57.910 --> 29:09.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't know how willing they would be to offer it on a 1A since it would probably be a lot more cost effective and require less equipment to offer it on a 5-year DMS 100.
[29:09.390 --> 29:09.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I realize that.
[29:10.810 --> 29:12.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's pretty much what I wanted to ask you.
[29:12.530 --> 29:13.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks a bunch.
[29:13.190 --> 29:15.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we're going to hit the next button now and look at that.
[29:15.890 --> 29:16.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: We jumped right over.
[29:16.650 --> 29:18.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: This thing remembers the order.
[29:18.490 --> 29:18.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[29:18.890 --> 29:20.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what it does because it jumped over too and went to 3.
[29:21.010 --> 29:21.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what it did.
[29:22.250 --> 29:22.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[29:22.810 --> 29:23.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air, number 3.
[29:24.390 --> 29:24.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello, Emmanuel.
[29:25.050 --> 29:25.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[29:25.530 --> 29:25.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[29:26.550 --> 29:28.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pretty new at the computer game.
[29:28.490 --> 29:29.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: I spoke to Chris.
[29:29.710 --> 29:33.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe he sometimes visits the studio.
[29:33.430 --> 29:36.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: I spoke to him at the store that he works at out here in Long Island.
[29:36.470 --> 29:39.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he stated that you offer internet.
[29:40.070 --> 29:41.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're an internet provider now?
[29:41.890 --> 29:43.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: He misstated if he stated that.
[29:43.530 --> 29:46.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, we don't offer internet.
[29:46.130 --> 29:46.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're on the internet.
[29:47.430 --> 29:50.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's plenty of organizations that do offer internet.
[29:51.370 --> 29:52.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: What are you looking for?
[29:53.110 --> 30:08.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm looking to buy a computer and I'm looking for an internet provider that is, you know, reliable, that protects their customers, that offers full access to all BBSs, all news groups, you know, the full range of everything.
[30:08.970 --> 30:09.290]  Right.
[30:09.290 --> 30:14.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Chris mentioned, I don't know if I misunderstood him, that you encrypt things.
[30:14.710 --> 30:19.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I thought that you offered internet access and that you encrypted everything.
[30:19.210 --> 30:22.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we do encrypt things, but we're not open to the public.
[30:22.130 --> 30:28.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're open to people who are part of 2600 in various ways, either magazine people or other things for us.
[30:28.770 --> 30:30.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: But of course, you can run your own encryption.
[30:31.190 --> 30:33.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's all kinds of things you can do yourself.
[30:33.550 --> 30:34.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm so new at this.
[30:34.810 --> 30:37.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I have no idea how to do that myself.
[30:37.750 --> 30:38.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it available?
[30:38.790 --> 30:42.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is the instructions available on any home page or anything else out there?
[30:42.930 --> 30:45.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, PGP is what we use for the most part.
[30:45.590 --> 30:47.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you can get PGP virtually anywhere.
[30:48.050 --> 30:51.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just by searching on the net, you can find it and use it on your own system.
[30:52.850 --> 30:54.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, that's fairly simple.
[30:54.110 --> 30:56.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to read some documentation to get it to work properly.
[30:57.410 --> 30:58.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's not difficult.
[30:58.870 --> 30:59.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's called PGP?
[31:00.730 --> 31:01.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: PGP.
[31:01.730 --> 31:02.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: PGP.
[31:02.290 --> 31:02.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[31:03.450 --> 31:03.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[31:03.850 --> 31:07.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: And another question I have is I want to buy a laptop.
[31:08.170 --> 31:17.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm realizing that all these the new computers are constantly upgrading like from, you know, 50 megahertz, 75.
[31:17.250 --> 31:18.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now it's up to 130.
[31:18.190 --> 31:19.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if it goes higher than that.
[31:21.070 --> 31:21.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm waiting.
[31:22.990 --> 31:23.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is my dilemma.
[31:24.110 --> 31:39.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm wondering at what point do I buy a computer and not getting stuck with some old ancient thing that won't work in a few years It's the Swiss army knife dilemma where you can always get something a little bit more except this one is regulated by time.
[31:39.670 --> 31:42.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in a couple of months there's going to be a slightly better model out.
[31:42.990 --> 31:51.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, what you have to do is get something and just say to yourself you're going to be happy with this for at least the next couple of years because it's going to do a lot more than you're able to do right now.
[31:51.410 --> 31:51.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[31:51.630 --> 31:55.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, that's why we still have a Mac SE floating around.
[31:55.970 --> 32:00.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: But apart from that you really shouldn't worry about that so much.
[32:00.370 --> 32:01.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter.
[32:01.390 --> 32:10.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you can get a computer that does something that you're happy with, then odds are you'll be happy with it for some time to come and then maybe a few years down the road you'll make another jump up and you'll be even happier.
[32:10.870 --> 32:22.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, one suggestion I might make is if you're planning on buying a PC is if you get a motherboard with, say, a dual processor motherboard.
[32:22.950 --> 32:29.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: And if you happen to buy it with only one processor in it you know that you could always add a second CPU later if you needed the speed.
[32:29.570 --> 32:33.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think I'll just keep on using the computers at Stony Brook for now.
[32:33.250 --> 32:35.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: They got some good ones up to 75 megahertz.
[32:36.370 --> 32:39.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: They got some good, you know, pretty relatively new Macintosh there too.
[32:41.830 --> 32:43.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just have one quick question.
[32:43.290 --> 32:46.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: I tried to tell that to 2600.com and I got a statement.
[32:47.550 --> 32:49.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you will get a statement if you do that.
[32:49.810 --> 32:56.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was stating that, it's inherently unsafe or you know, unsecure.
[32:56.350 --> 32:58.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I was hoping to get more than that.
[32:58.690 --> 33:05.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's basically I mean, you know, you're open to sniffing if you just use Telnet without encryption.
[33:05.010 --> 33:08.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: We use an encrypted program called DeskLogin to connect to our site.
[33:09.150 --> 33:11.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it says all that when you try to tell that to us.
[33:11.590 --> 33:14.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it explains how you can get a copy of DeskLogin from us as well.
[33:14.690 --> 33:15.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[33:15.470 --> 33:20.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I subscribed to the magazine and I wanted to get more information.
[33:20.010 --> 33:23.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I have to subscribe to DeskLogin?
[33:23.570 --> 33:24.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a program.
[33:24.950 --> 33:28.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can download it from anywhere that has the program including our site.
[33:28.870 --> 33:36.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: As far as actually using our system, if you're a regular writer for us or a staff member of some sort, then we can hook you up as far as that goes.
[33:36.190 --> 33:38.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, if he just wants more information, you should check the website.
[33:39.030 --> 33:39.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[33:39.270 --> 33:40.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, does he have web access?
[33:40.350 --> 33:41.950]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, do you have worldwide web access?
[33:42.170 --> 33:42.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, sure.
[33:42.830 --> 33:44.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, you should just check the website then.
[33:44.510 --> 33:47.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what is the web address again?
[33:47.290 --> 33:52.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's www.2600.com Okay, thanks a lot, guys.
[33:52.230 --> 33:52.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, take care.
[33:54.050 --> 33:55.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[33:55.310 --> 33:55.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello?
[33:56.010 --> 33:56.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, go ahead.
[33:57.010 --> 34:00.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I wanted to let you know that pretty soon you might have to get licensed to have computers.
[34:01.190 --> 34:06.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was hearing something out of the news tonight that they want to make people register who have computers in this country.
[34:06.390 --> 34:08.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who are the they that we're talking about here?
[34:08.630 --> 34:09.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: The politicians.
[34:10.350 --> 34:10.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Politicians.
[34:10.830 --> 34:12.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember any particular names?
[34:12.630 --> 34:13.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think Dole.
[34:13.810 --> 34:15.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: I saw something about Dole talking about it.
[34:15.710 --> 34:17.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Dole, that would make sense.
[34:17.430 --> 34:18.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: That would sort of make sense.
[34:19.110 --> 34:26.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Dole's the same guy that's been going crazy about this Money Train film saying that because of that film someone set a token clerk on fire.
[34:26.750 --> 34:29.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, they needed a film to figure out how to set somebody on fire.
[34:30.390 --> 34:32.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's the most insane thing, you know.
[34:32.570 --> 34:33.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like censorship.
[34:33.990 --> 34:35.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's going to come like a communist country.
[34:36.050 --> 34:36.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[34:36.610 --> 34:39.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: They think that because they're going to you know, don't think that people are going to really call it the trouble.
[34:39.690 --> 34:41.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're going to get computers without it.
[34:42.110 --> 34:47.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the word is totalitarian, really, and that can be left or right, and I think we're moving right into that storm.
[34:48.370 --> 34:48.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[34:48.730 --> 34:58.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, by the way, MyAMI, if you try to break the coast or whatever it is, if it has you on record using it, it won't let you break the code.
[34:59.930 --> 35:01.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Even if you use the...
[35:01.750 --> 35:03.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: You talk about 1-800-MY-AN-I-IS.
[35:03.750 --> 35:04.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[35:04.250 --> 35:10.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you use that three-digit code that's being passed around, and you use it from a number that's been blacklisted, it won't let you...
[35:10.490 --> 35:11.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, can I scan them?
[35:11.690 --> 35:13.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: But can I just make one point?
[35:13.230 --> 35:15.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're using it from that number, what do you need it for anyway?
[35:16.370 --> 35:18.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, you've used it before.
[35:18.730 --> 35:19.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what your number is.
[35:20.070 --> 35:23.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'll try to find the number and know 999-digit work.
[35:23.790 --> 35:24.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[35:24.950 --> 35:26.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you spent a lot of time then, didn't you?
[35:27.110 --> 35:30.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: But did it allow you to do that on one call or did you have to call a thousand times?
[35:30.570 --> 35:31.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: You've got to keep calling back.
[35:31.990 --> 35:34.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not going to look too good because they still have to pay for the phone call, don't they?
[35:35.370 --> 35:37.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, I get it from a payphone.
[35:37.850 --> 35:38.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[35:38.450 --> 35:41.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess maybe payphones are treated specially.
[35:41.990 --> 35:42.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[35:43.670 --> 35:45.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, thanks for the call.
[35:45.590 --> 35:46.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye-bye, guys.
[35:46.430 --> 35:47.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, take care.
[35:47.850 --> 35:49.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that's interesting.
[35:49.910 --> 35:51.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty wacky.
[35:51.990 --> 35:58.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, on the subject of Dolan, people like that, I heard the funniest thing on the news today that, um, Rupert Murdoch, you know him, right?
[35:58.910 --> 35:59.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[35:59.310 --> 36:03.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to start another all-news channel on TV.
[36:04.650 --> 36:05.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Another one.
[36:05.470 --> 36:06.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, to compete with CNN.
[36:06.630 --> 36:06.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[36:06.750 --> 36:11.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he said that the reason he's doing this is because CNN has moved way too far to the left.
[36:13.190 --> 36:17.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was laughing for 15 minutes straight driving into the city before it.
[36:17.230 --> 36:18.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, CNN, they're real rebels.
[36:18.250 --> 36:19.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy, I'll tell you.
[36:19.690 --> 36:21.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: They start wearing like headbands on their head now.
[36:22.370 --> 36:25.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's revolution news 24 hours a day.
[36:26.410 --> 36:30.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so that's what we have to look forward to is that kind of way of doing things.
[36:31.450 --> 36:31.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[36:32.070 --> 36:32.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[36:32.430 --> 36:32.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[36:33.070 --> 36:33.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[36:33.690 --> 36:34.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, hi.
[36:34.190 --> 36:37.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can I ask you a question about bonding on an ISDN BitSurfer?
[36:38.750 --> 36:39.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[36:39.290 --> 36:39.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's permit that.
[36:39.870 --> 36:40.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, go ahead.
[36:40.570 --> 36:42.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do I get this right?
[36:42.550 --> 36:46.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do I have to make a second configuration and somehow link them?
[36:47.270 --> 36:49.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: Are you talking about on the regular BitSurfer or the Pro?
[36:49.590 --> 36:53.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's a BitSurfer with a chip upgrade.
[36:53.690 --> 36:53.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[36:53.990 --> 36:58.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've got it working on Windows 95 and it's working fine at 576.
[36:59.210 --> 37:05.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: But once again, I'm no longer satisfied and I want to make it bond.
[37:05.470 --> 37:08.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's because of you that callers like the previous one are afraid to buy a computer.
[37:08.570 --> 37:08.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know that.
[37:09.410 --> 37:10.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I got my license.
[37:11.390 --> 37:11.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, good.
[37:12.050 --> 37:12.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[37:12.770 --> 37:16.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, when you put us on hold, we can hear the whole show.
[37:16.890 --> 37:17.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's good.
[37:17.530 --> 37:18.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: So do you prefer it this way?
[37:19.870 --> 37:28.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Except that if you're going to ask for people to call for a specific reason, then I could be caught up into it just while I was on hold.
[37:28.910 --> 37:36.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: I may not want, you know, you may not want, I may not want to say, speak about what you're talking about, but I got caught up in the hold of it.
[37:36.770 --> 37:37.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Caught up in the hold of it.
[37:37.830 --> 37:38.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.
[37:38.850 --> 37:39.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[37:39.310 --> 37:40.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know what you mean.
[37:40.290 --> 37:41.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: I like the way you said it, though.
[37:41.890 --> 37:43.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: So there we go.
[37:43.590 --> 37:47.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sitting around dissatisfied again and I want to bond.
[37:48.130 --> 37:51.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: So now, do I have to make a second configuration and link them or what's up?
[37:52.210 --> 37:55.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: Do you realize that you can only use bonding with another BitSurfer?
[37:57.790 --> 37:59.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Even with the chip upgrade?
[37:59.850 --> 38:00.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[38:00.570 --> 38:07.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: The only way that you're going to be compatible with everybody else is if you actually get a BitSurfer Pro and use Multilink PPP.
[38:07.410 --> 38:16.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I got involved with InterRamp and they offer the bonding.
[38:16.250 --> 38:26.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can signal, you can go online at 576 and then go into the account page and set your situation up for a bonding.
[38:26.290 --> 38:30.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: They'll allow you to do it, but I can't, I don't think I'm missing something.
[38:30.490 --> 38:32.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: No, it's not going to work.
[38:32.170 --> 38:34.850]  [SPEAKER_22]: The only thing that you could do, you're talking about PSI InterRamp?
[38:35.090 --> 38:35.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[38:35.490 --> 38:41.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: The only thing you're going to be able to do is either synchronous bonding, which you can't do because you don't have a synchronous serial port.
[38:42.070 --> 38:44.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: You have an asynchronous serial port on a PC.
[38:44.290 --> 38:44.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[38:44.910 --> 38:46.130]  [SPEAKER_22]: So bonding is out.
[38:46.490 --> 38:51.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Your only other option is doing Multilink PPP, which you don't have available on the BitSurfer.
[38:52.090 --> 38:53.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's only available on the BitSurfer Pro.
[38:53.670 --> 38:54.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: Of course.
[38:54.350 --> 38:58.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have a couple of words to say on the subject of PSI in a moment.
[38:58.190 --> 39:00.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think maybe our caller would want to hear this.
[39:02.010 --> 39:05.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've got a few things to say about PSI too, but I can't say them on the radio.
[39:06.070 --> 39:08.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, I'm going to phrase it in such a way that I can.
[39:08.970 --> 39:11.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope that people take notes on this.
[39:12.090 --> 39:17.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: So perhaps you want to go back to your radio and listen to what I'm about to say here because, you know, it's kind of...
[39:17.670 --> 39:21.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: So the bottom line is no matter what, I have to get the BitSurfer Pro.
[39:21.770 --> 39:28.070]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, the bottom line is if you want twice the speed you're doing right now and you want to be able to connect out to say InterRamp, you're going to need a Pro, definitely.
[39:28.630 --> 39:30.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's only another, what, three and a half?
[39:30.950 --> 39:31.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[39:31.510 --> 39:33.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll eat sometime in February.
[39:33.710 --> 39:34.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you very much.
[39:34.790 --> 39:34.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[39:35.190 --> 39:35.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[39:35.930 --> 39:36.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good luck.
[39:36.890 --> 39:43.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, before I see what I have to say about PSI, I'm going to grab a couple more calls and put them on hold.
[39:45.130 --> 39:46.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'm getting the knack of this.
[39:46.990 --> 39:47.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm starting to anyway.
[39:48.170 --> 39:48.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[39:48.850 --> 39:50.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we have one line open.
[39:51.090 --> 39:52.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-279-3400.
[39:52.830 --> 40:01.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, if you recall, over the summer we signed up with PSI because we were going to get our ISDN service for 2600.com through them.
[40:01.830 --> 40:11.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe both of us, Phiber, talked to somebody over there in their sales department that told us how doing the data over voice was quite possible.
[40:11.990 --> 40:12.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: There were no problems.
[40:12.610 --> 40:14.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: An overzealous sales employee.
[40:14.350 --> 40:15.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: An overzealous salesperson, yes.
[40:15.950 --> 40:16.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: He hooked us.
[40:16.830 --> 40:24.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: He hooked us and he reeled us in and signed us up and we signed up for this service where we basically agreed for a year of this.
[40:24.410 --> 40:25.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it was great.
[40:25.250 --> 40:28.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here we were moving from our 28.8 connection up to 56K.
[40:29.150 --> 40:35.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: We were going to use our ISDN line and not pay the penny a minute surcharge that 9x charges when you hook up at 64K.
[40:36.190 --> 40:40.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the day came when we had to actually use the service and what happened?
[40:40.790 --> 40:41.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: It didn't work.
[40:41.390 --> 40:42.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: It didn't work at all.
[40:42.810 --> 40:45.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: And there were all kinds of problems.
[40:45.390 --> 40:50.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: We were trying to figure out what it was and finally we called their techs and we asked them what gives here.
[40:50.550 --> 40:51.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to connect.
[40:51.670 --> 40:52.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: And what was it?
[40:52.310 --> 40:53.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: They went away for a while.
[40:53.370 --> 40:57.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: They consulted with somebody and they came back with a different tone of voice.
[40:57.630 --> 40:58.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Totally different tone of voice.
[40:58.450 --> 41:01.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly they realized that we were some sort of evil...
[41:01.230 --> 41:02.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Some kind of leftist.
[41:02.490 --> 41:03.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[41:03.410 --> 41:05.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe like an enemy of Rupert Murdoch or something.
[41:06.350 --> 41:10.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they said we don't support that kind of thing.
[41:10.850 --> 41:13.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: We do not support data over voice.
[41:14.550 --> 41:15.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're like what?
[41:15.970 --> 41:17.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what you told us.
[41:17.250 --> 41:21.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is why we signed up in the first place because you told us this would work.
[41:21.830 --> 41:23.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now you're telling us we have to sign up at 64...
[41:23.630 --> 41:25.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean there's no good reason for this.
[41:25.410 --> 41:29.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just because they're obstinate and they don't want to provide this service.
[41:30.410 --> 41:31.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now they tell us it's their policy.
[41:31.870 --> 41:34.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why is it when we ask them specifically do you support this?
[41:34.830 --> 41:35.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: They said yes.
[41:35.870 --> 41:40.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: So basically we told them look if that's your policy then consider this contract null and void.
[41:40.670 --> 41:41.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll find somebody else.
[41:41.690 --> 41:42.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: We did find somebody else.
[41:43.030 --> 41:44.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Very happy with them.
[41:44.530 --> 42:07.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we just got a letter from PSI saying that not only do they feel that we should pay what we already had charged and thereafter canceled on our credit card but we should pay but we should pay for the entire year because we signed a contract and their policy is not to support data over voice.
[42:08.170 --> 42:30.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now had I gotten that letter before I had ever heard of PSI I would have known not to sign up with PSI but since apparently it's their policy not to tell you what their policy is until after you've paid and have asked for something that violates their policy that's how they manage to intimidate people into paying for entire years this will amount to something like I don't know several thousand
[42:30.130 --> 42:30.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: dollars right?
[42:30.850 --> 42:37.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they actually expect us to pay this and this will be I'd say a crippling charge for us to pay for something that we don't even use.
[42:37.490 --> 42:39.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean we've never even connected once to their service.
[42:41.530 --> 42:55.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I just you know my impression this is how I feel about it that is not a legitimate way to do business it's not a legitimate way to to get customers to believe in the value of your service.
[42:55.730 --> 43:05.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: to tell people one thing when something else is in fact the truth and then to penalize them or attempt to penalize them for listening to you in the first place.
[43:05.490 --> 43:25.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what kind of intimidation tactics they're going to use on us right now I'll just say straightforward right here and now we're not paying for something that doesn't work for something that we don't use and they can send all the lawyers and collection agencies and things after us but that's the way it is and I just wish they had some you know they have potential they can provide you
[43:25.730 --> 43:42.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: know some really neat services to people even if they don't provide data over voice you know they can at least tell people that from the start and you know best of luck with whatever it is they do offer but you know to hook people Put people in like this and try and take money from them when they haven't gotten anything from you.
[43:42.230 --> 43:43.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's shameful.
[43:43.950 --> 43:44.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what I have to say.
[43:45.490 --> 43:46.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: You think I'm being fair?
[43:47.210 --> 43:48.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: I would have been a lot nasty.
[43:48.810 --> 43:50.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's all those words I can't use.
[43:50.750 --> 43:51.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have that list in front of me.
[43:52.230 --> 43:53.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: It gets bigger every day.
[43:54.450 --> 43:59.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'd like to hear other people's experiences with PSI, if they've had any similar type of things.
[43:59.970 --> 44:04.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, if anything changes in the future, we will let you know right here on this radio show.
[44:04.290 --> 44:09.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: But for those of you that are looking for internet access, I'm not saying to sign up with them or to not sign up with them.
[44:09.530 --> 44:16.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying just to hear what our experience has been so far and use that as some sort of first-hand information.
[44:17.310 --> 44:19.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's take another phone call here.
[44:20.330 --> 44:21.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[44:22.770 --> 44:23.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[44:24.010 --> 44:24.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anybody there?
[44:24.950 --> 44:25.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Did I do something wrong?
[44:26.550 --> 44:28.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I got that button hit.
[44:28.710 --> 44:29.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is up there.
[44:30.270 --> 44:32.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think this person just fell asleep, so I'm going to go to the next one.
[44:32.950 --> 44:33.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[44:33.690 --> 44:34.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel.
[44:34.390 --> 44:36.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I had a question about cocots.
[44:36.490 --> 44:36.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[44:37.170 --> 44:39.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alright, I know that they have got modems in them.
[44:39.970 --> 44:42.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was reading the current issue of 2600.
[44:42.310 --> 44:49.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to know, pretty much maybe from either yours or Fiverr's experience, what happens pretty much when you connect to them?
[44:50.470 --> 44:54.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, just out of curiosity, if you know anything about that.
[44:54.850 --> 44:56.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, different things happen to different ones.
[44:56.890 --> 44:59.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, not all of them have modems in them either.
[44:59.730 --> 45:03.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: But usually the ones that do, when you connect to them, they do absolutely nothing.
[45:03.830 --> 45:05.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: And they're waiting for you to do something.
[45:06.630 --> 45:09.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, is there like special software required, or just...
[45:09.890 --> 45:13.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, the companies themselves would, yeah, would in fact have that software.
[45:13.810 --> 45:14.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense.
[45:15.050 --> 45:26.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when you have a situation where the only people that are supposed to connect to a certain device all subscribe to the same service, it makes sense that they would have something unique so that somebody who doesn't belong to that service would not be able to connect.
[45:26.790 --> 45:26.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[45:26.970 --> 45:33.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a weird speed, maybe, or custom software that, you know, that sends out certain key strings?
[45:33.830 --> 45:34.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[45:34.490 --> 45:36.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alright, I had one other question.
[45:36.430 --> 45:38.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure you've seen them all over the city.
[45:39.070 --> 45:42.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: NYNEX LED displays on the sides of some payphones, I think?
[45:42.290 --> 45:42.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes.
[45:43.690 --> 45:45.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just out of curiosity, how do those work?
[45:45.610 --> 45:46.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do they...
[45:46.330 --> 45:49.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it over a wireless 900 MHD, maybe, or...?
[45:49.810 --> 45:54.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard it was something similar to a beeper frequency.
[45:54.070 --> 45:58.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, I've heard various stories about how it's actually received.
[45:58.750 --> 46:00.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the actual...
[46:00.170 --> 46:04.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's done by satellite to the initial point and then distributed through microwaves, I think.
[46:04.650 --> 46:04.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[46:05.090 --> 46:05.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I hear.
[46:06.030 --> 46:09.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because, I mean, I was thinking it obviously couldn't be where...
[46:09.210 --> 46:14.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: It couldn't be like an EEPROM or something where a technician went around and replaced it all the time, because I've seen a lot of numbers.
[46:14.930 --> 46:18.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now, here's one way to know for sure exactly what's going on.
[46:18.130 --> 46:20.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to be in sight of two of them at the same time.
[46:20.650 --> 46:22.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've never been that fortunate.
[46:22.210 --> 46:26.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: But maybe you can find somebody else at one on a payphone and talk to the other person.
[46:26.410 --> 46:26.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[46:26.490 --> 46:28.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: See if they're saying the exact same thing at the same moment.
[46:28.830 --> 46:29.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[46:29.450 --> 46:31.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: That would definitely tell me something, then.
[46:31.970 --> 46:32.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[46:32.550 --> 46:32.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[46:33.270 --> 46:33.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's it, then.
[46:34.050 --> 46:34.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks a lot.
[46:34.630 --> 46:34.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[46:34.950 --> 46:35.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Take care.
[46:35.450 --> 46:35.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[46:35.990 --> 46:36.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[46:36.570 --> 46:36.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[46:37.150 --> 46:37.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[46:37.410 --> 46:37.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: How are you, Emmanuel?
[46:38.130 --> 46:38.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing?
[46:38.690 --> 46:38.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[46:40.150 --> 46:42.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to ask you, do you think there's any...
[46:42.010 --> 46:44.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're talking about a big internet provider.
[46:45.170 --> 46:49.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there still room in that market for the small startup?
[46:50.170 --> 46:50.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[46:50.870 --> 46:51.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[46:51.610 --> 46:56.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what kind of people would you like to see get into that business?
[46:56.230 --> 47:06.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to see anybody with an interest in providing decent service, unedited, uncensored, no time limits, things like that.
[47:06.870 --> 47:13.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you notice all the big guys, you know, the CompuServs, the Genies, the AOLs, they all have time limits.
[47:13.270 --> 47:14.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: They all have controls.
[47:14.470 --> 47:15.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're all worried about something.
[47:17.210 --> 47:25.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the smaller ones are the ones that people are turning to, you know, as far as getting the most affordable services and the most services.
[47:26.150 --> 47:26.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[47:26.310 --> 47:30.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think there's still a lot of places that don't have enough of those.
[47:30.690 --> 47:35.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, there's still room here in New York, I'm sure, because there's just so many people that need access.
[47:36.470 --> 47:47.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And sort of another question I've been thinking about for a few weeks and meaning to ask you is, do you know of any access providers who are using Windows NT as a platform?
[47:47.790 --> 48:00.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: And do you think that for whatever reason, given the change in the market of people looking for internet access, do you think that the Windows NT platform has anything to offer?
[48:00.430 --> 48:03.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Farber, you have an expression on your face that I think should be translated into words.
[48:03.630 --> 48:03.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh-huh.
[48:03.910 --> 48:06.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, I think that the answer would be absolutely not.
[48:07.030 --> 48:17.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: Mainly because when people subscribe to an internet provider, they're expecting to get Unix access, which is something that obviously Windows NT cannot do because it's Windows NT and not Unix.
[48:18.250 --> 48:19.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: But why do you...
[48:19.090 --> 48:36.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, do you really think that everybody who subscribes to the internet service providers that they have to use a web browser on a Windows machine or a, you know, similar utility, a lot of them using Windows or DOS computers, do you think that they're looking for Unix access?
[48:37.570 --> 48:37.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: I...
[48:37.970 --> 48:46.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: As a matter of fact, I think they do, unless you're going to market yourself to cater only to beginners who in a few months will vanish because they want more powerful access.
[48:47.130 --> 48:47.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[48:48.450 --> 48:48.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[48:49.290 --> 48:49.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[48:49.630 --> 48:50.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for the advice.
[48:50.810 --> 48:51.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for the call.
[48:51.770 --> 48:54.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And Dave Burstein is here from the Personal Computer Show.
[48:54.470 --> 48:55.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we used to be neighbors.
[48:56.090 --> 48:59.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: And now we're horizontal neighbors, but not vertical neighbors.
[48:59.650 --> 49:01.570]  [SPEAKER_21]: That was actually really great that you turned on.
[49:01.670 --> 49:03.790]  [SPEAKER_21]: You got Mishio Kaku doing physics and peace.
[49:04.130 --> 49:04.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:04.270 --> 49:06.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: You got us doing basic computer stuff.
[49:06.610 --> 49:06.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:06.750 --> 49:09.130]  [SPEAKER_21]: And then you had Emmanuel doing the really interesting stuff.
[49:09.330 --> 49:14.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for those people that were able to last that long, that's the real hard stuff at the end.
[49:14.690 --> 49:15.330]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wednesday night.
[49:15.450 --> 49:21.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: But now every night at 8 o'clock you get some sort of scientific kind of thing.
[49:21.210 --> 49:22.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: We were aiming for something like that.
[49:22.870 --> 49:27.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you got Helen Caldicott on Mondays, you've got me on Tuesdays, you've got Mishio on Wednesdays.
[49:28.130 --> 49:29.830]  [SPEAKER_21]: And Thursday's still something political.
[49:30.230 --> 49:30.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[49:30.450 --> 49:34.130]  [SPEAKER_21]: They were going to move us there if we were really putting that sequence together.
[49:34.390 --> 49:36.850]  [SPEAKER_21]: And God knows what the sequence is going to be in the future.
[49:37.050 --> 49:41.170]  [SPEAKER_21]: But yes, we miss Emmanuel on Wednesday nights and we're glad some of you folks have found him on Tuesday.
[49:41.450 --> 49:41.930]  [SPEAKER_21]: Here I am.
[49:41.930 --> 49:47.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: In order to help you find him and everything else on WBAI, we actually have a working website up there.
[49:48.030 --> 49:49.810]  [SPEAKER_21]: And please come take a look at it.
[49:49.990 --> 49:51.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: It is under construction.
[49:51.290 --> 49:52.490]  [SPEAKER_21]: It is very rough.
[49:52.690 --> 49:54.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: It needs your help and advice.
[49:54.570 --> 49:56.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: But you might find it interesting.
[49:56.670 --> 49:57.710]  [SPEAKER_21]: So take a look.
[49:57.710 --> 50:07.130]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's up there at the usual http colon slash slash www.dorsai.org slash tilde WBAI.
[50:07.450 --> 50:13.910]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's dorsai, D-O-R-S-A-I dot O-R-G slash the squiggle W-B-A-I.
[50:14.130 --> 50:18.030]  [SPEAKER_21]: Take a look at the website and come help us with it.
[50:18.030 --> 50:20.510]  [SPEAKER_21]: You didn't put those compromising pictures on the website, did you?
[50:21.150 --> 50:22.190]  [SPEAKER_21]: There is a pointer.
[50:22.510 --> 50:24.390]  [SPEAKER_21]: There is a link to the 2600 page.
[50:24.510 --> 50:27.470]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I don't know what compromising pictures are in the 2600 page.
[50:27.570 --> 50:27.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[50:27.830 --> 50:29.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, we have our own set of compromising photos.
[50:29.790 --> 50:36.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I instructed the WBAI people not to use the pictures of me that have been floating around and hopefully they've heeded that warning.
[50:36.770 --> 50:37.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: But we'll see.
[50:37.590 --> 50:40.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess the only way to find out is to click over there and see what's over there.
[50:40.370 --> 50:41.910]  [SPEAKER_21]: And help us put it together.
[50:42.130 --> 50:42.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yes.
[50:42.810 --> 50:44.070]  [SPEAKER_21]: We need a whole lot of people.
[50:44.230 --> 50:47.670]  [SPEAKER_21]: It is an incredible amount of work to get all the stuff that we want to do.
[50:48.030 --> 50:53.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: If you can come tomorrow night before our show, we're having a small meeting here at WBAI at 630.
[50:53.710 --> 50:57.530]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's at 505 8th Avenue, up on the 22nd floor.
[50:58.090 --> 51:03.770]  [SPEAKER_21]: If not, give me a call here at the station, 279-0707, extension 122.
[51:04.030 --> 51:05.090]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm Dave Burstein.
[51:05.770 --> 51:06.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: Or send me email.
[51:07.550 --> 51:10.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: I've got another one of the services around here.
[51:10.250 --> 51:13.070]  [SPEAKER_21]: You can send me email, daveb.escape.com.
[51:14.070 --> 51:16.170]  [SPEAKER_21]: And so, check out the website.
[51:16.170 --> 51:17.670]  [SPEAKER_21]: Tell us how to do it better.
[51:18.030 --> 51:19.230]  [SPEAKER_21]: And come help us do it.
[51:19.350 --> 51:20.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: We need your help.
[51:20.390 --> 51:20.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:20.910 --> 51:21.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for stopping by.
[51:23.690 --> 51:26.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's one of the many steps that we're taking.
[51:27.070 --> 51:28.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we'll be on See You See Me.
[51:28.530 --> 51:29.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're on FTP.
[51:29.470 --> 51:30.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're on the web.
[51:30.150 --> 51:30.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're everywhere.
[51:31.250 --> 51:32.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just can't stop it.
[51:32.370 --> 51:33.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: The WBAI is exploding onto the net.
[51:33.990 --> 51:35.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like some sort of a virus or something.
[51:35.810 --> 51:36.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[51:36.830 --> 51:37.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:37.190 --> 51:37.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:37.530 --> 51:38.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, now the...
[51:38.430 --> 51:41.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've lost track of the last phone call I took.
[51:42.410 --> 51:43.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: These ones are on hold.
[51:43.410 --> 51:43.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: These ones are ringing.
[51:44.050 --> 51:44.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:44.230 --> 51:45.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I'm gonna take this one now.
[51:45.090 --> 51:45.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[51:45.370 --> 51:45.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[51:46.050 --> 51:46.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, Eric.
[51:46.850 --> 51:47.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: How you doing?
[51:47.430 --> 51:47.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: How you doing?
[51:48.070 --> 51:49.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've got a question from Mark.
[51:49.790 --> 51:51.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And my question is...
[51:52.870 --> 51:55.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, what I'm trying to say is...
[51:55.950 --> 51:59.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who's the man with the beanie that's sitting in your room?
[52:00.850 --> 52:02.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I have no idea.
[52:03.390 --> 52:04.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go on to the next phone call.
[52:05.730 --> 52:06.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, uh...
[52:06.370 --> 52:07.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go on the next, uh...
[52:07.710 --> 52:08.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[52:08.110 --> 52:08.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[52:10.870 --> 52:12.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: You might be interested in meeting the last caller.
[52:12.870 --> 52:13.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[52:13.330 --> 52:13.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[52:15.810 --> 52:16.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[52:16.490 --> 52:16.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on...
[52:16.770 --> 52:17.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
[52:17.410 --> 52:19.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: The next button doesn't work when you fill it up.
[52:20.370 --> 52:20.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[52:20.510 --> 52:20.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to...
[52:20.870 --> 52:22.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, because all those calls had already been on hold.
[52:22.770 --> 52:23.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: So now I'm just gonna take them live.
[52:24.130 --> 52:25.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: No more putting calls on hold.
[52:25.410 --> 52:25.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[52:25.690 --> 52:26.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[52:26.610 --> 52:26.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, hi.
[52:27.230 --> 52:27.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: How you doing?
[52:27.530 --> 52:28.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, a couple of...
[52:28.570 --> 52:29.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: That must have been about a year ago.
[52:30.130 --> 52:32.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: You once did a thing on the air where...
[52:32.230 --> 52:34.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was 8th Avenue and 35th Street.
[52:34.350 --> 52:37.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: You actually tied in through the telephone and used it as a receiver.
[52:38.050 --> 52:39.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you know what I'm talking about?
[52:39.330 --> 52:41.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tied into the telephone and used it at...
[52:41.190 --> 52:44.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: A public payphone was used as a receiver.
[52:44.150 --> 52:44.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could actually hear...
[52:44.830 --> 52:45.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: I did this?
[52:45.770 --> 52:47.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was on the Hacker Show.
[52:47.770 --> 52:48.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[52:48.430 --> 52:49.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: But do you know what I'm talking about?
[52:50.010 --> 52:54.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, they were speculating on the nature of surveillance and who would be using this technology.
[52:54.250 --> 52:55.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, no, it was a couple of years ago.
[52:55.430 --> 53:01.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember we called a cocot and we found that there was some sort of a room monitor function.
[53:01.290 --> 53:01.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, to listen to the street.
[53:02.070 --> 53:02.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to listen to the street.
[53:02.850 --> 53:02.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[53:03.130 --> 53:04.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, who would be using this?
[53:04.450 --> 53:08.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why do they even have it so people can be overheard at payphones without even knowing it?
[53:08.530 --> 53:11.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: And can you be heard in your own home if your phone is hung up?
[53:12.470 --> 53:13.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, now that's...
[53:13.710 --> 53:14.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: That opens up that...
[53:14.490 --> 53:16.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: Can you be heard in your own home if the phone hung up?
[53:16.830 --> 53:17.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, the answer is no.
[53:17.990 --> 53:19.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: What about the Infinity transmitter?
[53:19.230 --> 53:19.890]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, nonsense.
[53:20.390 --> 53:22.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: If your phone is hung up, your phone is hung up.
[53:22.410 --> 53:24.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: There's a physical break in the line.
[53:24.190 --> 53:25.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why would this work on a payphone then?
[53:25.970 --> 53:27.530]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, that's a bit different.
[53:27.530 --> 53:30.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, when you call it, there's no break in the line.
[53:30.490 --> 53:30.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's picked up.
[53:30.750 --> 53:31.710]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, when you call it, yeah.
[53:31.850 --> 53:34.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like calling an answering machine as a room monitor function.
[53:34.450 --> 53:34.470]  Or calling a modem.
[53:34.470 --> 53:34.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[53:35.010 --> 53:35.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's going to answer.
[53:36.490 --> 53:37.390]  [SPEAKER_22]: It could be...
[53:37.390 --> 53:42.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: I mean, the hardware and the actual device can be programmed to detect ring voltage and then answer the phone.
[53:44.110 --> 53:44.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.
[53:44.850 --> 53:49.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it just opened up avenues about surveillance and things of that nature.
[53:49.490 --> 53:50.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there are things out there.
[53:50.710 --> 53:52.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's all kinds of ways of monitoring people.
[53:52.990 --> 53:58.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've seen things where you plug into electrical outlets and it's actually listening to what's in the room.
[53:59.150 --> 54:00.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I hope they can pick up WBAI.
[54:01.150 --> 54:02.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I don't know.
[54:02.430 --> 54:02.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[54:02.990 --> 54:03.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, thanks, guys.
[54:03.870 --> 54:04.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[54:04.810 --> 54:11.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, there's all kinds of things that people have, you know, private eyes, that they can do this.
[54:12.390 --> 54:13.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have to learn how...
[54:13.410 --> 54:16.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if anyone wants to send us free samples of this stuff, we'll be able to...
[54:16.150 --> 54:20.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, they could look at all the advertisements in Nuts and Volts magazines.
[54:20.250 --> 54:20.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[54:20.790 --> 54:21.930]  [SPEAKER_22]: For all those little doodads.
[54:22.190 --> 54:28.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, the whole infinity transmitter thing has been going around for decades, but I have yet to see one that works and no one has yet to show me one that works.
[54:29.250 --> 54:32.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: No one has yet to explain specifically what it does.
[54:32.170 --> 54:32.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[54:32.430 --> 54:34.790]  [SPEAKER_22]: Every infinity transmitter does something slightly different.
[54:34.950 --> 54:42.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: In the film The Conversation, which I think is a very good film, when Gene Hackman came out in 1974, there is a demonstration of the infinity transmitter.
[54:42.470 --> 54:44.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it looks believable to me.
[54:44.650 --> 54:49.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, but these are the same movies that are tracing phone calls with little black boxes and headphones.
[54:49.550 --> 54:50.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, that's true.
[54:50.650 --> 54:58.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it's still a fairly accurate portrayal for the most part, but there is that Hollywood cliché business always seeping in there.
[54:59.310 --> 54:59.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[54:59.970 --> 55:00.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on Off the Hook.
[55:01.050 --> 55:01.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, good evening.
[55:01.750 --> 55:02.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: How are you?
[55:03.110 --> 55:04.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: No one asked me that tonight.
[55:04.450 --> 55:04.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: How am I?
[55:04.770 --> 55:05.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm okay, I guess.
[55:05.870 --> 55:07.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I need to ask you a question.
[55:08.270 --> 55:09.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the question is this.
[55:09.990 --> 55:15.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Where could one possibly get a Ventura version 2.0?
[55:16.370 --> 55:17.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: A who?
[55:17.210 --> 55:17.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: A what?
[55:18.010 --> 55:19.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the Ventura version.
[55:19.810 --> 55:23.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a Xerox company put out, the Ventura version 2.0 edition.
[55:24.410 --> 55:25.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is it?
[55:25.210 --> 55:25.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what does it do?
[55:26.150 --> 55:27.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a desktop publisher.
[55:27.970 --> 55:29.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a program, software.
[55:29.510 --> 55:29.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[55:30.710 --> 55:32.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, is this commercial software?
[55:33.270 --> 55:33.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[55:34.270 --> 55:35.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Have you tried stores?
[55:35.630 --> 55:37.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've tried everywhere, and I can't find it.
[55:37.830 --> 55:41.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Have you tried calling 1-800-INFORMATION and asking for the number for Ventura?
[55:41.230 --> 55:41.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've tried.
[55:41.970 --> 55:44.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: But see, they have changed over to CorelDRAW now.
[55:45.110 --> 55:47.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm trying to find that particular version.
[55:49.150 --> 55:51.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Does CorelDRAW take over for Ventura?
[55:51.830 --> 55:52.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that what you're saying?
[55:52.530 --> 55:52.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[55:53.190 --> 55:54.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And does it read Ventura files?
[55:55.630 --> 55:58.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but it doesn't have what I'm looking for.
[55:58.290 --> 56:01.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm looking for that specific program and not something else.
[56:01.710 --> 56:04.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there something that specific program does that CorelDRAW does not?
[56:04.950 --> 56:05.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[56:05.950 --> 56:06.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[56:06.650 --> 56:07.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[56:11.970 --> 56:12.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, not yet.
[56:12.770 --> 56:12.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[56:13.110 --> 56:18.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: You need to get on the net and post some messages in Usenet.
[56:19.390 --> 56:20.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: What group would you scare him to?
[56:21.290 --> 56:21.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: How big is that?
[56:23.590 --> 56:24.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Comp.com...
[56:24.750 --> 56:25.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: What?
[56:25.430 --> 56:25.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wanted?
[56:26.010 --> 56:28.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's that one that's miscellaneous.wanted or something?
[56:28.910 --> 56:29.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: You got me.
[56:29.650 --> 56:34.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you posted something on the internet, you'd probably get lots of replies from all over the world from people who have that program.
[56:34.850 --> 56:36.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be more than happy to give it to you.
[56:36.450 --> 56:36.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[56:36.950 --> 56:37.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[56:37.490 --> 56:37.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[56:37.950 --> 56:43.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's my best advice for that, because it seems like kind of an obscure thing he's looking for.
[56:43.310 --> 56:44.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: But they're still out there.
[56:44.490 --> 56:46.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I found somebody with a Z100 that's using it.
[56:46.810 --> 56:48.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, an old Heath kid, Zenith 100.
[56:49.550 --> 56:51.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they wanted to trade software.
[56:51.590 --> 56:52.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's...
[56:53.110 --> 56:57.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about an 8 megahertz machine from 1983, and they're still using it.
[56:57.690 --> 56:57.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[56:58.070 --> 56:58.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[57:00.270 --> 57:00.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[57:00.930 --> 57:01.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[57:01.650 --> 57:01.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[57:02.790 --> 57:03.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[57:03.690 --> 57:04.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing?
[57:04.370 --> 57:04.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, good.
[57:04.910 --> 57:05.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm on the air.
[57:05.350 --> 57:05.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you are.
[57:06.090 --> 57:07.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, let me turn down my radio.
[57:07.290 --> 57:07.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[57:09.230 --> 57:16.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I was listening to you, and you know, I'm the person who called you about a year ago when Roman was on the air with you.
[57:16.410 --> 57:16.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[57:16.530 --> 57:22.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: And taking, you know, the internet, the donations for the internet.
[57:22.730 --> 57:22.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[57:22.770 --> 57:24.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I talked to you about See You, See Me.
[57:24.770 --> 57:25.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[57:25.350 --> 57:29.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's interesting that now that you're, you say that you're on See You, See Me?
[57:29.630 --> 57:30.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: Well, not yet.
[57:30.750 --> 57:32.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: What's the plan here, Phiber?
[57:32.170 --> 57:37.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, well, the plan is to, um, set up, uh, the ISDN line that goes here to the station.
[57:37.810 --> 57:38.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, great.
[57:38.530 --> 57:42.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: With, uh, now that they have, uh, See You, See Me cameras for Windows machines.
[57:43.010 --> 57:43.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[57:43.350 --> 57:43.870]  [SPEAKER_22]: For PCs.
[57:44.370 --> 57:44.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: Right.
[57:44.510 --> 57:47.730]  [SPEAKER_22]: They just, uh, set up a Kinectics camera with, uh, Sound Blaster.
[57:48.230 --> 57:48.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, okay.
[57:48.890 --> 57:52.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: At the time, we, I was telling you, uh, that the program was on Cornell, I believe?
[57:53.090 --> 57:53.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.
[57:53.770 --> 57:54.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, is it still there?
[57:54.990 --> 57:59.990]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, it still is, but the actual project has been taken over by a company called White Pine Software.
[58:00.370 --> 58:04.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: So now how, oh, you mean, so I can't get, uh, I can't get the program anymore, then?
[58:04.530 --> 58:05.310]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, no, sure you can.
[58:05.310 --> 58:08.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: All you have to do is go to White Pine Software's website.
[58:08.010 --> 58:11.330]  [SPEAKER_22]: It's www.wpine.com.
[58:11.990 --> 58:16.590]  [SPEAKER_22]: And you'll be able to get the, uh, latest working version of See You, See Me for Windows.
[58:17.050 --> 58:17.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, great.
[58:18.230 --> 58:21.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, um, that's, that's, that's very good.
[58:21.910 --> 58:22.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, another thing.
[58:22.830 --> 58:24.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, actually, we don't, we don't have any time.
[58:24.670 --> 58:24.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay, thank you.
[58:24.930 --> 58:27.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're out of time for this week, but, uh, call back next week.
[58:27.130 --> 58:27.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, thank you.
[58:27.710 --> 58:27.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[58:28.450 --> 58:31.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's, uh, that's gonna do it for us, uh, for this edition of Off the Hook.
[58:31.650 --> 58:32.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we'll be back again next week.
[58:33.550 --> 58:37.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, we'll have the, um, the results of Bernie S.'s hearing.
[58:37.810 --> 58:41.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess that's the most important thing we can all, uh, hope for is that that's gonna work out, okay?
[58:43.130 --> 58:48.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Until then, I guess, uh, stay on top of high-tech and let us know what you find out along the way.
[58:48.530 --> 58:48.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Take care.