12 noon at the Gap store on 34th Street and Broadway for more information call
the National Labor Committee at 2 1 2 2 4 2 0 7 0 0 that's 2 1 2 2 4 2 0 7 0 0
0 0. Hi this is Eric Anderson. This is Rosie Perret. You're tuned to WBAI. What's up ladies and
gentlemen this is LL Cool J. This is Dave Marsh. Hi this is Tony Bennett. Hi
this is Julie Cruz from New York City and you're listening to WBAI-FM, the
soundtrack of New York City. Non-commercial and with no additives.
We're listener supported. I don't listen to the radio. I don't like stuff that
sucks. You talking to me? I love this radio station. You talking to me? And we're
talking to you here on WBAI in New York where it's just about time for another
edition of Off the Hook.
And good evening to everybody. This is Emanuel Goldstein. Program is Off the
Hook where we're still in the in a new studio here trying to figure out where
everything belongs. There we go. Okay. All these different buttons to hit. Now
Fiber you're on this mic over here I believe. Your mic number? That's the
only one I didn't hit. Okay let's try it now. There you are. Okay. It's kind of loud too.
I'll get the yeah there's feedback. Feedback right from headphones. Okay there
we go. So it's been a fun week hasn't it? Yeah I suppose it has. Lots of things
broke this week as far as as internet type things. But we also got a lot of
things working for the first time which I think is always kind of neat. Including
one of the very first most important things that I think we've ever done is
the finally getting this radio show onto the net in some way. In some way. We're
talking about several several possibilities as far as as getting the
program on. And one of them involves see you see me. But the other one is
something a bit more involved. A little more old-fashioned. Yeah a little more
old-fashioned. A little more traditional. And I'll tell you this is something that
that caused us no end of problems as far as trying to get it to work in the first
place. But I'm happy to say we finally did it. This involves actually getting
the show recorded as a file. And what we what we do is we use well I use Windows
95. You know I'm Windows 95 has actually been working recently for me. Yeah that's
good to know. Yeah I mean it's been working for you for a while. But I had
some nightmares with it. And and finally it's gotten to the point where I can do
things. You know print out things. Record things onto a file. Transfer that file by
FTP to the net. And you expect those things to happen when you do them. That's
right. That's right. So what we did was we took the show of two weeks ago and we
recorded it onto .wav files. .wav format. That's that's one of the audio
formats. Right. Came out an hour-long show audio. How big do you think it would be?
Well I know how big it was. You know so I guess it's kind of about 40 megs. About
42 megs. Forty two and a half megs actually. That's that's a lot. Oh you know
that's that's pretty big. So we couldn't really expect people to to download 43
megs. You know I mean no matter what your connection is that's that's a lot.
So we looked around for a way of compressing. And we found this neat
utility called GSM. Which allows you to compress. Unbeknownst to us you can't
compress .wav files on that utility. You can compress .au files. So what we
had to do was convert the .wav file to a .au file. And then run a program
called Toast and compress that down. And so we got down to around six megs. But
not before we managed to completely crash our system in the process. And we
still don't know why. Because something to do with that .wav file and and and
trying to run the wrong processes on it. It just kind of kind of made things not
too not too cool. And we just discovered this yesterday actually. Where for some
reason that the .wav file was was hanging the entire system every time it
was backed up. And we don't know why. So we just deleted it. It's gone. But the
important thing. We don't need to hear that. The important thing is that that
you can now get that show two weeks ago. And hopefully we're doing this as an
experimental basis. You know see how how things work. But hopefully you'll be able
to do it every week. And hopefully we'll be able to get some old shows on there
as well. If you FTP. Of course you have to have net access. If you FTP to FTP
dot 2600 dot com. And go into the slash pub slash radio directory. There should
be all kinds of directions there as to exactly what you have to do. You have to
first of all get the file. And then you have to to uncompress it. Using the
untoast program. Which is available through the GSM utility. Which you can
find using Archie. And then you have to have the ability to play a .au file
or convert it to a .wav file. What do you think? Is that easy enough to
know? When you un GSM it you can just play it as an audio file. That's true. It's
not gonna sound that good. We should warn people. It's not gonna sound like you
hear right now. Unless of course you're listening to the file. It's it's gonna
sound a little bit telephone quality. Not even. I mean yeah it's telephone
quality to a degree. But you get I think you get more bass. But the music doesn't
sound all that great. It sounds kind of warbly. It's not for music. It's not for
music exactly. GSM is for telephones. Yeah well so it is. In fact that's what they
use over in Europe isn't it? Yeah in fact the audio format is for based on
telephones also. Uh-huh. In fact you actually what I was explaining to you
the other night is that .wav file format which is actually called the
RIFF format actually preserves a lot more sound resolution than .au files do.
So when you actually convert from a .wav to an audio file you lose a lot of that
sound resolution. Because normally an audio file only has a sampling rate of
eight kilohertz. And the .wav file can actually record using a CD quality. So
obviously if you're chopping all that all that fidelity off you're only left
with eight kilohertz of bandwidth left. That's about the same as a telephone
call. Yeah well it's just I think it's kind of neat that we actually got to the
point. I mean six megs is still a lot to download. Yeah. But you can actually get
an hour's worth of recording onto that. And this way people in Japan can hear
our program for the first time. You know it's a way of reaching out and
expanding the WBAI stranglehold on alternative speech and technology
and things like that. All those other neat things. By the way we're gonna try
something different tonight. You know how we're always complaining about how
people are getting cut off after 30 rings. Well with this new phone system we
have now we have the ability to grab each call and put it on hold. So if you
don't mind being on hold for who knows how long maybe half an hour maybe maybe
40 minutes. If you don't mind that then call us now at 2 1 2 2 7 9 3 400 and we
will put every single one of the calls on hold which means everyone else
trying to get through is gonna get a busy signal. But you won't get
disconnected unless I knock against it. And then you know we can at least not
complain about you know about 9x disconnecting. Of course you have to pay
for the phone call you know unless you have untimed units or unless the what
penny a minute or whatever doesn't mean much to you. Speaking of the penny a
minute now I've heard a rumor maybe you could you could verify this that 9x is
going to be eliminating that penny a minute surcharge for digital ISDN
connections. Well at this point it's only a rumor. I haven't heard anything to
confirm nor deny that it's gonna happen. Have you asked the 9x people?
Actually they've been so busy I haven't been able to get through to them over
the past couple days. Yeah it's it's I don't know what it is but I called
information yesterday and I got the recording saying we're sorry we can't
offer you normal normal you know information service whatever their
normal information service is. Okay now how would you do this? I guess you pick
up this line here and you put it on hold okay then you pick that one put that one
on hold going through every single you know I disconnected somebody how did I
do that? Okay we have one open line folks one open line and six are on hold
right now. Now I think the people that are on hold right now are able to
actually hear my voice on their telephones. Someone else hung up it's
five on hold. Don't play games with us folks I mean this is like something that
you know this is high technology here you don't want to you don't want to mess
around with it you might break something. Now as far as we neglected to mention
this last week but we had said that Bernie S was going to have a very
important hearing a week ago last Friday and I'm sure a lot of people were
wondering what exactly happened there. Good question. You just put the calls on
hold? Yeah there were two more came in. Okay so what happened was the the
hearing was postponed two weeks and it's gonna take place this Friday hopefully
we'll hear from Bernie tonight we're not sure if we will but hopefully we will
and he's basically he's facing going back to prison depending on what this
what this local judge has to say about about the whole case involving him being
in federal prison for for seven months because he had a red box in his
possession and various other electronic things that could have been used in bad
ways but were never proven to have been and never alleged to have been. So that
person hung up too. There we go. So we'll keep our fingers crossed on that you can
of course finger the Bernie S at 2600.com site to find out the latest
when when that happens as soon as we hear something we'll know. What are the
people just keep calling and hanging up is that the maybe a hold button doesn't
work maybe it's disconnecting them. I don't know. I think they're just hearing
silence and deciding to hang up. So he's optimistic I mean he's been working you
know for a couple of weeks now and he's he's I think making the most out of out
of life in the free world and hopefully that free world will elect to keep him
there and not send him back to some place he has no business being. Hopefully
we'll hear from this hour if not we'll certainly report back as to as to what's
going on. Two books are sort of out they're not out yet but they're getting
to the stage where they're going to be out. One is of course Takedown by John
Markoff and Mr. Shimomura, Tsutomu Shimomura who helped track down Kevin
Mitnick last last February. That book is in the hands of several people and I've
seen a copy of it and it's kind of kind of neat kind of interesting to read all
these things that are that are happening and also kind of distressing to see the
way in which certain things came about. Another book which is also out about the
same subject not out yet but it's you know copies are floating around and it
will be out in January. It's called The Fugitive Game Online with Kevin Mitnick
written by Jonathan Littman. I think this book is is much more accurate as far as
as getting the the facts right. A lot of this actually is is critical and and
kind of asking a lot of questions about the whole investigation in the first
place and what exactly a New York Times reporter was doing chasing after an
alleged computer hacker and then writing front-page stories in the New
York Times. Well I think we know what he was doing. Oh yeah we do. He was making
seven hundred fifty thousand dollars. That would appear that way based on the
contract that he got from Hyperion but there's all kinds of questions that need
to be asked and I think reading the two books concurrently would be probably the
the best way to understand exactly what's what's happening. There's a part
in here actually there's a couple of different parts. I wish I'd written down
the page number but it's it's it's the part where they're listening in on a
cellular phone call and and and guess who they hear? They hear me. Really? Yeah I
mean that's that's kind of that's kind of distressing to see a name in the in
the book like that. I'm trying to find it I really am. Just very hard to track
these things down. No index I suppose. No index yet. In fact there's there's a table
of contents at the beginning but all the chapter numbers are chapter zero because
they haven't gotten around to numbering them. I don't know why they can't number
the chapters when they put out a book. I mean that seems like the easiest thing
to do but I guess I guess they just didn't do it yet. I will find that part
as soon as soon as I find it. There's something else going on too which I
think is kind of kind of weird. Have you been reading the media recently? You
might have read the story about some kid out in Long Island that got busted for
allegedly impersonating phone company employees routing routing phone lines to
open trunks so he could make free phone calls and things like that. I didn't hear
about that. Well yeah I mean reading about it in places like computer world
you would you would think it's the crime of the century you know not just like
somebody making free phone calls you think it was somebody you know breaking
into the building stealing the phone system smashing all the computers maybe
killing a few people at the same time. That's the you know the the sober tone
that they that they take when they describe this kind of situation. So of
course they come in with guns blazing and and haul people off the prison for
unknown amounts of time but this particular case was was interesting
because of the fact that they were they were talking about what made him do it
and you know who Don Delaney is. Sure. I mean he he arrested you didn't he? Yeah
he did at one point. He seems to be going around arresting everybody recently. He's
a New York State Police what's his what's his official position just head
of the computer crimes unit or something? Actually the last I heard a couple of
years ago he was supposedly retiring. He has not retired unless he's freelancing
he's still going around arresting people left and right and this particular
person that he arrested he he made a point of saying this to the media and
I've seen it pop up in very many places and I think it's something that that we
should all take notice of. This kid allegedly actually I guess this part
isn't allegedly he received as a present from his parents a subscription to
2600 magazine. Now the way that all these all these media people are
reporting this it's as if you get a subscription to 2600 and and like right
away that's that's it you know you're down that road and there's no coming
back and and look his parents did it to him his parents got him to subscribe and
I'm like how many how many maniacs are out there that have like taken out
entire post offices or whatever and they've got like they've got copies of
today's cop or whatever it is they read. Guns and ammo. Yeah and and and they
report that in the newspaper that you know this this guy's parents got him a
you know a copy of that magazine. I mean you know what people read is not
something that you condemn them for what they what magazines they subscribe to
what what films they watch but increasingly it seems to be something
that that we're paying attention to. You know I mean we saw that with the with
the Bernie S case and and that was a bit of a of a severe example of that but
I don't know what do you what do you think of that kind of that kind of way
of being referred to. Well kind of bugs me. I'm curious to see how this case
actually turns out. Yeah actually I think it has turned out and I'm not sure
exactly how it's turned out maybe somebody enlighten me on that but but I
just you know this is the same guy Delaney I'm talking about the New York
State cop. He testified before Congress. I mean this is this is that time I went
down to testify before Congress you know Markey and all those lunatics. Yeah who
basically it was it was easier being on the Geraldo thing than it was dealing
with these people because they just didn't hear anything you had to say they
just was speaking in soundbites. You know and you just could not get through to
them but he may have gotten through to them when he said that that magazines
like 2600 should be regulated like pornography and not distributed to
minors. You know and and it goes on record as saying that he's personally
witnessed me as if I'm doing this surreptitiously handing magazines to
people under 18 years of old. This is this is the crime that I'm being accused
of handing publications of written material to people under age and it's
like yeah you know and these people are nodding these these these senators or
representatives or whatever the hell they are they're they're not in their
heads yeah this is this is a problem we've got to do something about this you
know America is under under you know some sort of state of siege now by the
hackers and we have to regulate what they say and what they read and what
they pass around flattered it's almost as if you're this modern-day sock yeah I
feel like Larry Flint but apart from that it's it's it's like something that
I don't think we should have to be going through and it's an argument I don't
think we need to be having I found the section of the book finally that I was
looking for I'll just read you a very brief part of this this is from the
fugitive game by Jonathan Lippman coming out in January the next trip was in
Markov's car says or sack who's or sack doesn't he like and what planet is
clinging on or something I'm trying to go back and see what or sack or sack has
a cell scope I know that okay I this is my fault because I should have I should
have read the entire book before I'm going around maybe is the cell scope no
or sack is not the cells but or sack is a is a character I think involved in in
tracking down the evil Mitnick yeah so or sack is on the good side and he's
tracking down the evil person okay the next trip was in Markov's car says or
sack Shimomura said it would be a good idea to change cars Markov had a purple
four-door geo prism purple four-door geo prism Wow I remember us joking about the
ugly colored cars back at the cell site it takes about 10 minutes to transfer
the equipment to Markov's car or sack hooks the cell scope into the cigarette
adapter plugs the cell scope into his laptop and attaches a 15-foot coaxial
cable to the portable antenna Markov starts up his rental car
Daniel was a rental car because he always get a geo prism when you rent
car I don't about the purple part I never got a purple one he starts up his
rental car the cell scope begins scanning and within a minute for the
first time instead of modem breath you like that term modem modem breath that's
what they call it when they hear a modem screeching on the on the cellular phone
I guess instead of modem breath they're plucking voices out of the sky it's
Mitnick and he's talking to somebody they know is that a manual Goldstein
asks you more his his tone of one of awe and respect they should have put that in
I would have liked to have seen that but yeah replies Markov I think it is the
team quiets down so they can hear Mitnick makes it easy addressing a
manual by name the hacker seems in good humor talking about the cool and rainy
weather they were mentioning names of other people recalls or sack how is so
and so doing Mitnick's voice coming over the local cellular is the loudest but
both parties are clearly recognizable nobody says so but the three men in the
car I know at least one of them may be breaking the law one of them being the
people inside the car and not the people on the phone right the federal subpoena
doesn't give unauthorized individuals the right to eavesdrop on voice calls so
that pretty much gives you an idea of the tone of this book you know they they
report the facts that they question the way in which the facts are obtained I saw
the same basic passage in takedown the Markov Shimomura book and they describe
pretty much the same scenario your name is mentioned why because apparently your
name came up in the conversation that I was having with Mitnick at some point
oh and they just try to drag everybody into this and further into the
conspiracy but the thing that was interesting about that is that they say
that only one side of the conversation could be heard that that is my voice
yeah and not not Mitnick's so my voice is coming out of a speaker down there in
North Carolina someplace with all these these people gathered round inside a
purple car and they can't even hear Mitnick they're just listening to what
I'm saying and I'm talking I'm saying something about you I don't know what
I'm saying I really should hear this I mean you know I think I've got the right
to and they're running around trying to track down Mitnick based on that you
know it's it's kind of a crazy scenario no update on Kevin's situation as of
yet I expect to hear something pretty soon but that's that's what's going on
as far as that goes hmm someone found this in the trash
anything gonna 9x internal 9x brochure 9x brand identity we encourage people to
send us their trash and it's better I should point out when you want its
marketing sort through it first before you send it to us because you know we
really don't have the time to go through all kinds of odds and ends but if you
find something of interest namely involving the phone company or
involving you know computers is useful protect our logo use the R in a circle
symbol that's what you have to do to protect the 9x so we can use the 9x logo
but as long as we have the R in a circle yeah okay I understand that makes I
should we should point out this is this is for for 9x employees that's that's
who it's meant to be for 9x employees any other tips for 9x employees that we
can yeah they have the it's just one of those things you can't picture on the
radio that's got to be the biggest Wow Windows 95 poster I've ever seen it
takes up the entire studio you walk through the street with that Wow
okay so what else we have they have how to keep their logo in the clear and they
have a picture of the logo with dotted lines around it keep it in the clear
what does that mean that means that they don't want to they don't want you to put
your print too close to their logo so there has to be this probably like a
grubby fingerprints is everything no print is in like print oh okay I
understand they have one yeah certain area of safety around their logo okay so
it's like a do-not-fly zone yeah around the 9x thing yeah and why did it why do
they use John a sample now whatever it happened to John Q public or any of
those people think he sued or something I don't know John a sample sample he's
in the 311 area code or something yeah yeah okay I think we're ready to actually
try some phone calls with the new method what do you think sure why not all right
let's see first I have to make sure that everything is is in the right place no
it's not obviously okay there we go okay have to hit the right buttons and
we are ready to something isn't right we're getting delay in the studio okay
so I have to hit maybe it's this button how's that that better yeah okay I fixed
it I don't know what that is I don't know how that happened all right let's
take our first phone call at two one two two seven nine three four hundred and
again forgive us for sounding as if we don't know what we're doing because we
don't this is a new system and we're still getting used to it but I believe
this week since we put everybody on hold we'll be able to just hit that neat
little next button just to go yeah that's what we're next that's that's
what it's for okay let's go to call number one and I
suspect will not be rebel good evening you're on the air yes go ahead
back issues 1992 issue it says hitchhikers guide to the phone system
written by Bill SF right that is correct this paragraph in here says can
you make your CEO fail to complete a call either by playing with the switch
hook or dialing strange numbers if you are in the United States did you ever do
something that will produce a recording we're sorry your call did not go through
after about 15 seconds of nothing what exactly happened at that point that
allegedly is some kind of backdoor into manipulation I guess well now nothing at
all actually I remember this happening a number of years ago when when I lived in
Queens and I was still served by a crossbar switch and what would happen is
if you called an 800 number and you let it connect and then you let them
disconnect and you stayed on the phone and it would revert back to silence
after a few moments after the disconnect and at that point you were still on an
open trunk and if you then waited and obviously didn't do anything didn't key
pulse anything then eventually you would get that recording you called it not go
through don't expect to get that now in the age of signaling system 7 and
digital switch although weird things do happen I mean I was talking to you on
the phone a couple of weeks ago and right and and somehow what do we get
disconnected did one of us hang up somehow we got disconnected and this
other party came I heard our phone ringing and then somebody was was
calling and leaving a message for somebody that was rather peculiar that
was very strange but that that was something completely different but um
things like that still happen though you know you might I mean it's not it's not
the same thing as routing yeah but we did something to make that happen what
we do we well apparently it seemed that when I played the I played an echo
echo suppressor tone on I have ISDN and I was talking I was talking to you on a
normal you're on your normal telephone right yeah I clicked over on three-way
and called the number that plays an echo suppressor tone beforehand when I
clicked it in manual could no longer hear me talking and I attack and what
would we do to actually get me back I think I had to hang up and call you back
oh really only way we could do it yeah it was kind of peculiar but suddenly the
conversation went only one way basically I wound up with somebody else instead of
you yeah
I might have gotten a whole review earlier concerning how do 1a ESS's
communicate with these digital switches if the 1a ESS is not a native digital
type of switch currently they do not in 9x 9x is getting rid of all the ones
and one a's in favor of upgrading to DMS 100s or 5 ESS's there's a heck of a
lot of 1a floating around not not in the city yeah in Bell Atlantic everywhere
Bell Atlantic is the exception they had such a saturation of 1a ESS's that they
were actually retrofitted to actually do SS 7 4 7 5 exchanges at DMS I mean is a
1a yeah city I mean there's a bunch there's a couple there's a couple
there's um there's still a 1a at 13th Street some uptown but the thing you
have to remember though is that the majority of offices in the city that
still have 1a's have other switches they're digital you can yeah yeah there
are no CEOs in the city that solely have a 1a and that's it but that is true in
other places like in Bell Atlantic and in those cases they have retrofitted 1a's
to be a digital capable yeah they can I don't know how how willing they would be
to to offer it on a 1a since it would probably be a lot more cost-effective
and require less equipment to offer it on a five-year DMS 100 okay we're gonna
hit the next button now and look at that we jumped right over this thing
remembers the order that's what it does cuz it jumped over two and went to three
that's what it did good evening you're on the air number three yes I'm pretty
new at the computer game I spoke to Chris I believe he sometimes visits the
studio I spoke to him at the store that he works at out here in Long Island and
he stated that that you offer internet you're an internet provider now he
misstated if he stated that no we don't offer internet we're on the internet
but there's plenty of organizations that do offer internet what are you looking
for well I'm looking to buy a computer and I'm looking for internet provider
that is you know reliable that protects their customers that offers full access
to all PBS all newsgroups you know the full range of everything right and
Christmas mentioned I don't know if I misunderstood him that that you encrypt
things and I thought that you offered internet access and encrypted everything
yeah we do encrypt things but we don't we're not open to the public we're open
to people who are part of 2600 in various ways either magazine people or
other things for us but of course you can run your own encryption I mean
there's all kinds of things you can do yourself yeah I'm so new at this I mean
I have no idea how to do that myself is it available if the instructions
available on any homepage or anything else I mean PGP is what we use for the
most part and you can get PGP virtually anywhere I mean just by by searching on
the net you can find it and use it on your own system so I mean that's fairly
simple you have to read some some documentation to get it to work properly
but it's not difficult it's called PGP PG PGP PGP yes okay and another question
I have is I want to buy a laptop and I'm realizing that all these the new
computers are constantly upgrading like from you know 50 megahertz 75 now it's
up to 130 I don't know if it goes higher than that I'm I'm waiting this is my
dilemma I'm wondering at what point do I buy a computer and not getting stuck
with some old ancient thing that won't work in a few years from now it's
impossible it can't be done it's the Swiss Army knife dilemma you can always
get something a little bit more except this one is regulated by time you know
in a couple of months it's gonna be a slightly better model out but you know
what you have to do is get something and just say to yourself you're gonna be
happy with this for at least next couple of years because it's gonna do a lot
more than you're able to do right now right and you know that's why we still
have a Mac SE but apart from that it's it's it's you really shouldn't worry
about that so much it doesn't matter if you can get a computer that does
something that you're happy with then odds are you'll be happy with it for
some time to come and then maybe a few years down the road you make another
jump up and you'll be even happier well one suggestion I might make is if you're
planning on buying a PC is if you get a if you get a motherboard with say a dual
processor motherboard and if you happen to buy it with only one processor in it
you know that you could always add a second CPU later if you needed the speed
yeah I think I'll just keep on using the computers at Stony Brook for now they
got some good ones up to 75 megahertz I got some good you know pretty
relatively new Macintosh there too I just have one quick question I tried to
tell net to 2600.com and I got a statement yes you will get a statement
that it's inherently unsafe or you know unsecure and I was hoping to get more
than that it's it's basically I mean you know you open to sniffing if you just
use telnet without encryption we use an encrypted program called desk login to
connect to our site and it says all that when you when you try to tell that to us
and it explains how you can get a copy of that's logging from us as well okay
subscribe to the magazine I wanted to get more information so I have to
subscribe to this just login no it's a program you can you can download it from
anywhere that has program including our site as far as actually using our system
if you're a regular writer for us or a staff member of some sort then then we
can hook you up as far as that goes well if he just wants more information you
should check the website yeah well does he have web access yeah do you have a
worldwide web access yes sure you should just check the website then and what is
the what is the web address again it's www.2600.com okay thanks a lot guys okay
take care good evening you're on the air hello yes go ahead yeah I want to let
you know that pretty soon you might have to get license to have computers I was
hearing something on the news tonight that they wanna make people register who
have computers in this country who are the day that we're talking about here
the politicians politicians do you remember any particular names yeah I
think dole I said something about dole talking about it yeah dole would that
would make sense that would that would sort of make sense adults the same guy
that's been going crazy about this this money train film saying that because of
that film someone someone set a token clerk on fire like they needed a film
figure out how to set somebody on fire it's it's it's the most insane thing you
know it's gonna come like a communist country uh-huh well I think that we
could you know the people that are really caught the trouble gonna get
I think the word is totalitarian really and I can be that can be left or right
and I think we're moving right into that storm yeah oh by the way my am I if you
try to break the coast or whatever it is if it has you on record using it it
won't let you break the code even if you use the you talk about 1-800 my
and I is right if you use that three-digit code that's being passed
around and you use it from a number that's been blacklisted it won't let
you but can I just make one point if you're using it from that number what
do you need it for anyway obviously obviously you've used it before and you
know what your number is uh-huh well you spent a lot of time then didn't you but
did it allow you to do that on one call did you have to call a thousand times
you gotta keep calling back that's not gonna look too good because they still
have to pay for the phone call don't they yeah well I did it from a payphone
okay well I guess maybe pay phones are treated specially I don't know anyway
thanks thanks for the call bye guys all right take care that's interesting
that's pretty wacky on on the subject of Dolan people like that I heard the
funniest thing on the news today that Rupert Murdoch you know him right sure
he wants to start another all-news channel on TV another one you know to
compete with CNN right he said that the reason he's doing this is because CNN
has moved way too far to the left I was laughing for 15 minutes straight driving
into the city before CNN they're real rebel oh boy I'll tell you let's start
wearing like headbands on their head now it's revolution news 24 hours a day okay
so that's that's what we have to look forward to this I kind of that kind of
way of doing things good evening you're on the air hello yes yeah hi can I ask
you a question about bonding on an ISBN bit surfer sure let's permit that yes go
ahead do I get do I get this right do I have to make a second configuration and
somehow link them you're talking about on the regular bit surfer or the pro it's
a bit surfer with a chip upgrade I've got it working on on Windows 95 and
working fine at 57 6 but once again I'm no longer satisfied and I want to make
it it's because of you that callers like the previous one are afraid to buy a
computer you know that well I got my license oh good okay you know when you
put put us on hold we can hit all show well that's good so you prefer it this
way except for that if you're going to ask for people to call for a specific
reason yeah then I could be caught up into it just while I was on hold I may
not want you know you may not want I may not want to say speak about what you're
talking about but I got caught up in the hold of it caught up in the hold of it
yeah okay you know I know what you mean I like the way you said it so so there
we go and I'm sitting around dissatisfied again and I want to bond so
now do I have to make a second configuration link them or what do you
realize that you can only use bonding with another bit surfer even with the
chip upgrade yeah the only way that you're gonna be compatible with
everybody else right is if you actually get a bit surfer pro and use multi-link
PPP well I got involved with interramp and they offer the the the bud the
bonding you can you can signal you can go online at 576 and then go into the
account page and set your your situation up for a bonding they'll allow you to do
it but I can't I don't think I'm I'm missing something you know it's not
gonna work the only thing that you could do you started a PSI interramp right the
only thing you're gonna be able to do is either synchronous bonding right which
you can't do because you don't have a synchronous serial port you have an
asynchronous serial port on a PC right so bonding is out your only other option
is doing multi-link PPP which you don't have available on the bit surfer it's
only available on the bit surfer pro of course I'm gonna have a couple of words
to say on the subject of PSI in a moment and I think maybe maybe our caller would
want to hear this yeah I've got a few things there a PSI too but I can't say
them on the radio okay well I'm gonna phrase in such a way that I can and I
hope that people take notes on this so perhaps perhaps you want to go back to
your radio and listen to what I'm about to say here because you know it's kind
of kind of so the bottom line is I know no matter what I have to get the bit
surfer pro yeah the bottom line is if you want twice the speed you're doing
right now and you want to be able to connect out to say interramp you're
gonna need a pro definitely well it's only another what three and a half yeah
February thank you very much thank you good luck now before I actually would
have to say about PSI I'm going to grab a couple more calls and put them on hold
okay I'm getting I'm getting the knack of this starting to anyway okay and I
think we have one line open two one two two seven nine three four hundred now if
you recall over the summer we signed up with PSI because we were going to get
our ISDN service for 2600 comm through them and I believe both of us if I ever
talked to somebody over there in their sales department that told us how doing
the data over voice was was quite possible and there were no overzealous
salesperson yes could have he hooked us he hooked us and he reeled us in and
signed us up and we signed up for this service where we basically agreed for a
year of this and it was great you know here we were moving from our 28 8
connection up to 56 K we're going to use our ISDN line and not pay the penny
a minute surcharge that 9x charges when you hook up at 64 K well the day came
when we had to actually use the service and what happened it didn't it didn't
work at all and there were all kinds of problems we're trying to figure out what
it was and finally we called their techs and we asked them you know what gives
here we're trying to connect and what was it they went away for a while they
they consulted with somebody and they came back with a different tone of voice
only different tone of voice like suddenly they realized that we were like
you know some sort of evil you know some kind of leftist yeah exactly maybe like
an enemy of Rupert Murdoch or something and they said we don't support that kind
of thing we do not support data over voice and we're like what this is what
you told us this is why we signed up in the first place because you you know you
told us this would work now you're telling us we have to sign up at 64 I
mean there's no good reason for this it's just you know because they're
obstinate and they don't want to provide this service it's it's now they tell us
it's their policy why is it when we ask them specifically do you support this
they said yes so basically we told them look if that's your policy then you know
consider this contract null and void we'll find somebody else we did find
somebody else very happy with them and we just got a letter from from PSI
saying that not only not only do they feel that we should pay what we what we
already had charged and and and thereafter canceled on our credit card
but we should pay for the entire year because we signed a contract and their
policy is not to support data over voice now had I gotten that letter before I
had ever heard of PSI I would have known not to sign up with PSI but since
apparently it's their policy not to tell you what their policy is until after
you've paid and have have asked for something that violates their policy
that's that's how they they manage to to intimidate people into paying for
entire years or so I know this will amount to something like I don't know
several thousand dollars right yeah and they they actually expect us to pay this
and this will be a I'd say a crippling charge for us to pay for something that
we don't even use I mean we've never even connected once to their service so
I just you know my impression this is this is how I feel about it that is not
a legitimate way to do business it's not a legitimate way to to to get
customers to to believe in the value of your service to tell people one thing
when something else is is in fact the truth and then to penalize them or
attempt to penalize them for for listening to you in the first place I
don't know what kind of intimidation tactics they're going to use on us right
now I'll just say straightforward right here and now we're not paying for
something that doesn't work for something that we don't use and they can
send all the lawyers and and collection agencies and things after us but that's
that's the way it is and I just wish they had some you know they have
potential they can provide you know some really neat services to people even if
they don't provide data over voice you know they can at least tell people that
from the start and you know best of luck with whatever it is they do offer but you
know to hook people in like this and and and try and take money from them when
they haven't gotten anything from you that's that's shameful so that's what I
have to say you think I'm being fair I would have been a lot nasty well I yeah
there's all those words I can't be used you know I have that list in front of me
it's bigger every day so I'd like to hear other people's you know experiences
with PSI if they've had any similar type of things and of course if anything
changes in the future we will let you know right here on this radio show but
for those of you that are looking for internet access I'm not saying to sign
up with them or to not sign up with them I'm saying just to hear what our
experience has been so far and use that as some sort of first-hand information
okay let's take take a another phone call here good evening you're on the air
hello anybody there did I do something wrong I think got that button hit this
is up there I think this person just fell asleep so I'm gonna go to the next
one good evening you're on the air Emanuel yeah I got a question about
Kolkatz uh-huh all right I know that they have got modems in them I was
reading the current issue of 2600 I wanted to know pretty much maybe from
either yours or fibers experience what happens pretty much when you connect to
them like does just out of curiosity if you know anything about that well
different things happen to different well not all the map modems in them
either but usually the ones that do when you connect to them they do absolutely
nothing and they're waiting for you to do something um is there like special
software required or just well the the companies themselves would yeah would
in fact have that that software that makes sense I mean when you have a
situation where the only people that are supposed to connect to a certain device
all subscribe to the same service it makes sense that they would have
something unique so that somebody who doesn't belong to that service would not
be able to connect yeah a weird speed maybe or a custom software that you know
that sends out certain certain key strings yeah all right I had one other
question I'm sure you've seen them all over the city 9x LED displays on the
side some pay phones I think yes yes um just out of curiosity how do those work
today is it over a wireless 900 MHZ maybe or I heard it was something similar
to to a beeper frequency yeah I've heard various stories about how it's actually
received I think I think the actual it's done by satellite to the initial point
and then distributed through microwaves I think right that's what I hear yeah
cuz I mean I was thinking it obviously couldn't be where each couldn't be like
an EEPROM or something where a technician went around and replaced it
all the time because I've seen a lot of numbers well now here's one way here's
one way to know for sure exactly what's going on you have to be in sight of two
of them at the same time I've never been that fortunate but maybe you can find
somebody else at one on a pay phone and talk to the other person see if they're
saying the exact same thing at the same moment yeah that would that would
definitely tell me something man oh yeah all right that's it then thanks a
lot okay take care all right good evening you're on the air yes hi Emmanuel
how you doing okay I wanted to ask you do you think there's any you're talking
about a big internet provider is there still room in that market for the small
startup oh yeah absolutely and what kind of people would you would you like to
see get into that business and I'd like to see anybody with with an interest in
providing you know decent service on unedited uncensored no time limits
things like that and you notice all the big guys you know the CompuServe the
genies the AOL's they all have time limits they all have controls they're
all worried about something and the the smaller ones are the ones that people
are turning to you know as far as as getting the most affordable services and
the most services so yeah I think there's still a lot of places that don't
have enough of those in fact there's still the still room here in New York
I'm sure because there's just so many people that that need access I and sort
of another question I've been thinking about for a few weeks and you'd ask you
is do you know of any access providers who are using Windows NT as a platform
and do you think that for whatever reason given that the change in the
market of people looking for internet access do you think that it that the
Windows NT platform has anything to offer fiber you have an expression on
your face that they should be translated into words oh yeah I think that the
answer would be absolutely not mainly because when people subscribe to an
internet provider they're expecting to get Unix access which is something that
obviously Windows NT cannot do because it's Windows NT and not Unix but what do
you what do you mean are you you really think that every everybody who subscribes
to the internet service providers that they have to use a web browser on a
Windows machine or a similar utilities a lot of them using Windows or DOS
computers do you think that they're looking for Unix access I as a matter of
fact I think they do unless you're gonna market yourself to cater only to
beginners who in a few months will vanish because they want more powerful
access okay all right thanks thanks for the advice thanks for the call and Dave
Burstein is here from the personal computer show you know we used to be
neighbors and now now we're we're horizontal neighbors but not vertical
neighbors that was actually really great you turned on you got Michio Kaku doing
physics and peace yeah you got us doing basic computer stuff and then you had a
manual doing the really interesting stuff yeah for those people that were
able to last that long that's that the real hard stuff at the end Wednesday
night but now now every every every night at 8 o'clock you get some sort of
some sort of scientific kind of thing we were aiming for something like that you
got Helen Caldecott on Mondays you've got me on Tuesdays you've got Michio on
Wednesdays and Thursday still something political okay they were gonna move us
there if we were really putting that sequence together and God knows what the
sequence is going to be in the future but uh yes we miss Emmanuel on Wednesday
nights and we're glad some of you folks have found him on Tuesday here I am in
order to help you find him and everything else on BAI we actually have
a working website up there and please come take a look at it it is under
construction it is very rough it needs your help and advice but you might find
it interesting so take a look it's up there at the usual HTTP colon slash slash
www.dorsai.org slash tilde WBAI that's dorsai d-o-r-s-a-i dot o-r-g slash the
squiggle WBAI take a look at the website and come help us with it you didn't put
those compromising pictures on the website did you there is a pointer there
is a link to the 2600 page and I don't know what compromising pictures are in
the 2600 page all right well yeah we have our own set of compromising photos
but but I instructed the BAI people not to use the pictures of me that have been
floating around and hopefully they they've heeded that warning but we'll
see I guess the only way to find out is to click over there and see what's over
there and help us put it together yes we need a whole lot of people it is an
incredible amount of work to get all the stuff that we want to do if you can come
tomorrow night before our show we're having a small meeting here at BAI at
630 that's at 505 8th Avenue up on the 22nd floor if not give me a
call here at the station 2790707 extension 122 I'm Dave Burstein or send
me email another one of the services around here you can send me email Dave
B at escape.com and so so check out the website tell us how to do it better and
come help us do it we need your help okay thanks for stopping by and that's
one of the many steps that we're taking yes we'll be on see you see me we're on
FTP we're on the web we're everywhere just I can't stop it BAI is exploding
onto the net like some sort of a virus or something I don't know okay so now
the I've lost track of the last phone call I took these ones are on hold
even the ring okay so I'm gonna take this one now good evening you're on the
air hey Eric how you doing how you doing I've got a question for Mark and my
question is well what I'm trying to say is who's the man with the the beanie
that's sitting in your room I have no idea come on to the next phone call
that's a go on the next good evening on the air you might be interested in
meeting the last caller good evening you're on the air good evening you know
what the next button doesn't work when when you fill it up you have to okay
because all those calls have already been on holds and I'm just gonna take
them live no more putting calls on hold good evening you're on the air how you
doing a couple of I must admit a year ago you went to the thing on the air
where I think it was 8th Avenue and 35th Street you actually tied in through the
telephone and used it as a receiver do you know what I'm talking about
tied into the telephone and use it okay a public pay phone was used as a
receiver you could actually hire this I think it was on the hacker show uh-huh
but do you know what I'm talking about anyway they were speculating on the
nature of surveillance and who would be using this technology okay no it was a
couple years ago I remember we called the CoCOT and we found that there was
some sort of a a room monitor function to listen to the street you have to
listen to exactly like who would be using this why do they even have it so
people can be overheard at pay phones without even knowing it and can you be
heard in your own home if your phone is hung up well now that's that'll be
heard in your own home with the phone hung up the answer is no what about the
infinity transmitter nonsense if your phone is hung up your phone is hung up
there's a physical break in the line why would this work on a pay phone then
well that's that's a bit different well first of all when you call it there's
no break in the line it's yeah when you call it yeah it's like calling an
answering machine as a room on the modem yeah it's gonna answer it could be I
mean the hardware and the actual device can be programmed to detect ring
voltage and then answer the phone hmm well it just opened up avenues of about
things of that nature well there are things out there there's all kinds of
ways of monitoring people I mean I've seen things where you plug into
electrical outlets and it's actually listening to what's in the room I hope
they can pick up BAI I don't know okay but you know there's all kinds of things
that people have you know private eyes that they can do this we have to learn
how I mean if anyone wants to send us free samples of this stuff we'll be able
to or they they can they could look at all the advertisements in nuts and
bolts magazines yeah for those little doodads I mean you know the whole
infinity transmitter thing has been going around for decades but I have yet
to see one that works and no one has yet to show me one that work no one has yet
to explain specifically what it does right every infinity transmitter does
something slightly different in the film the conversation which I think is a very
good film machine hackman came out in 1974 there is a demonstration of the
infinity transmitter and it looks believable to me yeah but these these
movies are the same movies that are tracing phone calls with little black
boxes and headphones oh yeah that's true but you know it's
nonsense it's still a fairly accurate portrayal for the most part but there is
that Hollywood cliche business always seeping in there good evening you're on
off the hook yes good evening how are you um no one asked me that tonight how
am I I'm okay I guess yes I need to ask you a question and the question is this
where could one possibly get a Ventura version 2.0 a who a what that's the
Ventura version it's a Xerox company put out the Ventura version 2.0 edition what
is it yeah what does it do it's a desktop publisher oh it's a program
software yeah where well I mean it's just commercial software yeah have you
tried stores I've tried everywhere and I can't find it have you tried calling
1-800 information asking for the number for Ventura I've tried to see they have
changed over to coral draw now and I'm trying to find that particular version
does corral draw the corral draw take over for Ventura is that what you're
saying yeah and does it read Ventura files yeah but it doesn't have what I'm
looking for I'm looking for that specific program and not something else
is there something the specific program does that corral draw does not yeah yeah
okay well you know I would suggest are you on the net no not yet okay you need
to get on the net and post some some some messages and use net what what
group would you scare him to I beg your pardon
I'm not come what wanted or what's that one that's miscellaneous thought wanted
or something you got me if you if you posted something in on the internet you
probably get lots of replies from all over the world from people who have that
program would be more than happy to give it to you okay I thank you yeah
that's that's my best advice for that because you know it seems like kind of a
obscure thing he's looking for but they're still out there I found somebody
with a z100 that's using it you know an old Heath kids even 400 and and they
wanted to trade software I think that's this is we're talking about an eight
megahertz machine from 1983 and they're still using it good evening you're on
the air okay you're on the air good evening how you doing oh good I'm on
here yes you are oh let me turn down my radio okay I was listening to you and
you know I'm the person who called you about a year ago when Roman was on the
air with you and taken following you know the the internet the donations for
the Internet and I would talk to you about see you see me uh-huh and it's
interesting that now that you're here you say that you're on see you see me
well not yet what what's the what's the plan here well the plan is to set up
the ISDN line that goes here to the station oh great with now that they have
see you see me cameras for Windows machines right for PCs all right they
just set up a Connectix camera with the sound blaster yeah okay at the time we
I was telling that the program was on Cornell I believe yeah is it still there
it still is but the actual project has been taken over by a company called
White Pine software so now huh oh you mean so I can't get I can't get the
program anymore no sure you can all you have to do is go to White Pine
software's website it's www.wpine.com and you'll be able to get the latest
working version of see you see me for Windows oh great okay that's very good
another thing actually we don't we don't have any time we're out of time
for this week but call back next week all right thank you okay and it's uh
that's gonna do it for us for this edition of off the hook of course we
back again next week and we'll have the the results of Bernie S's hearing and I
guess that's the most important thing we can all hope for is that that's gonna
work out okay till then I guess stay on top of high tech and let us know what
you find out along the way
you
titanium side so I see nice thing you think y'all take some chunk y'all to the
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gonna read your read Sunday kick you out if you can't pay you and the guy