Off The Hook - 1996-03-26

[00:21.230 --> 00:26.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: And another action-packed edition of We the People will be coming your way tomorrow night at 7 p.m.
[00:27.270 --> 00:28.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Stay tuned for Off the Hook.
[00:32.590 --> 00:38.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: What if you found out that those fresh fruits and vegetables everyone keeps telling you to eat more of might kill you?
[00:38.630 --> 00:43.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: And what if we told you that everyone knows this, the government, the farmers, even the supermarkets where you buy them?
[00:43.850 --> 00:53.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: The fact is, if you buy fresh peas, peppers, squash, strawberries, apples, pears, or even canned baby food, you may have put toxic pesticides on your table and not even known it.
[00:54.190 --> 01:02.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: According to the Environmental Protection Agency, over 50 ingredients found in toxic pesticides in use today are suspected of causing cancer in humans.
[01:02.910 --> 01:06.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Congress wants to weaken the current regulations.
[01:06.630 --> 01:10.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: Regulations which already allow cancer-causing pesticides into our food supply.
[01:10.970 --> 01:15.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, if you want to stop eating toxic pesticides, you're going to have to take action.
[01:15.990 --> 01:22.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Tell your supermarket manager you're opposed to having toxic pesticides in the foods you eat and you don't like shopping in stores that carry them.
[01:23.170 --> 01:25.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're Food and Water Incorporated.
[01:25.350 --> 01:28.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: For more information, call us at 1-800-EAT-SAFE.
[01:28.710 --> 01:29.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a free call.
[01:29.910 --> 01:32.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's 1-800-E-A-T-S-A-F-E.
[01:34.230 --> 01:37.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this is radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:37.250 --> 01:38.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is now time for Off the Hook.
[01:44.820 --> 02:06.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call It couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Bum-Digley Bump But the best expect the worst I hope that's understood Bum-Digley Bump
[03:00.210 --> 03:25.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a very good evening to everybody This is Off the Hook with Emmanuel Goldstein And we have some interesting bits of information for you tonight including a correction from last week because, well, we were just totally wrong about something and that's something that deserves to be corrected and the sooner the better as far as that particular bit of information goes And that,
[03:25.250 --> 03:31.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: of course, concerns the NYNEX phone bills which we were talking about Well, first of all I think we might have Bernie S.
[03:31.970 --> 03:34.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: in the phone Is anybody there?
[03:34.850 --> 03:38.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: I will select calls from Okay Bernie S.
[03:38.350 --> 03:58.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: At the Bucks County Correctional To review this call Hang up If you accept this call Do not use three-way or call waiting features or you will be disconnected To accept this call Dial one now Thank you Bernie, can you hear us?
[03:59.330 --> 04:05.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can It's very noisy here Yeah, and your levels are very bad so you're going to have to scream if you can Bad as in they're weak?
[04:05.750 --> 04:18.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, they are weak I could barely hear that As loudly as I can You can hear me better now That's fine If you can keep that kind of a level going that would be fine I hope my voice holds out Now tell me Does our techno music in the background does that bother you?
[04:18.710 --> 04:19.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Does what?
[04:19.470 --> 04:20.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Technical music?
[04:20.290 --> 04:32.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: The techno music we're playing in the background I can't even hear it Okay Here is about 60 other inmates yelling and screaming Okay, well it's good for us It makes us more relaxed and it's also good for the listeners because sometimes it drowns us out It's okay with me Okay,
[04:32.870 --> 04:53.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: wonderful So now you're still there in the Bucks County Prison which is the new facility for you Yeah, I was transferred there last week from North Hanson County Prison Uh-huh On tampering with evidence charge which stemmed out of the federal charge for possessing hardware and software for the illegal I'm sorry,
[04:53.470 --> 05:03.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: hardware and software for the modification of telecommunications instruments And you also have you've answered one of my questions in that I was wondering if you still had your cough and it appears that you do I'm sorry?
[05:03.970 --> 05:05.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: You still have your cough and I believe that would
[05:12.190 --> 05:38.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it seems to exist So that's a positive The other positive is here at this prison they have a non-imoking cell block so that I don't have to inhale cigarettes about 24 hours a day so that's a big improvement Can I ask what radio frequency this program is being broadcast on some of the other inmates wanted to tune it in if they could?
[05:39.050 --> 05:48.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I doubt they can get it down there but it's 99.5 FM so you can certainly try and of course if you're in the New York metropolitan area Is it also on AM by any chance?
[05:48.430 --> 05:53.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it's not unless it's being rebroadcast by a pirate somewhere which I have no problem with Do you know where that pirate is?
[05:53.890 --> 06:16.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, hopefully that pirate will tell us if they are doing that and anybody on shortwave that might be rebroadcasting our signal or certainly on satellite or over the Internet There's many ways you can probably get this show that I don't know about We've had a lot of trouble talking to you in the past week because this new automated way of making collect calls is really kind of crazy It seems that
[06:16.710 --> 06:37.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: any time you make any kind of a click whatsoever you wind up disconnecting the call and that goes for before you even accept the phone call so what happens is we hear you coming across And we go to pick up the phone to accept the call, and the act of picking up the phone makes the automated collect thing disconnect,
[06:38.350 --> 06:40.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: thinking that you're trying to do some funny business.
[06:41.670 --> 06:50.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's very frustrating because there's no way we can accept the call unless we hear your voice, and when we hear your voice and pick up the phone, it thinks that we're trying something, so we just never communicate.
[06:50.890 --> 07:08.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: If the system, which is run by the Atlantic here, or it's a special system set-up for prison inmates, calls are made on these inmate phones, which actually are identical to the blue charger call around the city.
[07:09.670 --> 07:11.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Only collect calls can be made.
[07:11.810 --> 07:14.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: Only zero-plus calls can be dialed.
[07:15.090 --> 07:20.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then, I don't know if listeners heard the collect call coming in, but there's a message.
[07:20.890 --> 07:34.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: It says you have a collect call from, and it examples your voice, and you can say your name, and then the calls are billed, I think, two or three times, what one would normally expect for a direct dialed call to the call party.
[07:35.290 --> 07:45.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: And unfortunately, the system seems to hang up the moment it hears any sudden noise on the call party's end, like a click.
[07:45.490 --> 07:50.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: I kept calling someone earlier this week who, every time he laughed about something, we got cut off.
[07:50.070 --> 07:50.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[07:50.710 --> 07:52.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you shouldn't be so funny, you know.
[07:53.370 --> 07:58.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess prison phones should only talk about, you know, serious things, and it can sense that as well.
[07:58.430 --> 08:16.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Interestingly enough, we had a Bell Atlantic technician come here yesterday to the prison to service some of the phones, and I asked him if they had considered replacing the handsets with noise-canceling handsets that would block out ambient noise and only allow near-field noise,
[08:16.810 --> 08:23.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: just like your own voice, to be picked up by the microphone, and he'd never heard of such a thing and said, even if there was such a thing, it wouldn't be available.
[08:24.330 --> 08:34.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I also suggested possibly a push-to-talk handset, which I know are also manufactured by various companies that would shut off the microphone unless you were pressing the button.
[08:34.710 --> 08:41.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: The problem is that these mics on these phones pick up the sound of everything going on in the cell block, and then it feeds back into your ear.
[08:41.550 --> 08:45.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: It makes it very difficult to hear the person you're talking to in the cell.
[08:45.510 --> 08:52.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, one thing, though, that we are able to do is take phone calls with you on, so I guess it doesn't... it's not upset by that.
[08:52.970 --> 08:58.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: But something we have to try right about now is making a phone call ourselves.
[08:58.390 --> 08:59.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you think that might be a problem?
[08:59.570 --> 09:00.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we can try it.
[09:00.370 --> 09:01.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seemed to have worked last week.
[09:01.710 --> 09:02.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: We'll try it again this week.
[09:02.530 --> 09:04.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: If we get cut off, we'll know what happened.
[09:04.110 --> 09:07.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'll try to call back, but there's no guarantees of anything with this system.
[09:07.330 --> 09:07.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[09:09.790 --> 09:13.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, now, I don't know if we actually made a phone call last week.
[09:13.450 --> 09:14.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to try something different.
[09:14.690 --> 09:17.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: The sound of a dial tone might really flip out the system.
[09:17.150 --> 09:17.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, let's see.
[09:17.890 --> 09:18.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[09:18.490 --> 09:34.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: What we're going to do is we're correcting ourselves from last week when we talked about the NYNEX phone bill situation where it turned out that people were not getting their AT&T portions of the phone bill, and we jumped the gun a bit.
[09:34.090 --> 09:34.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[09:34.430 --> 09:50.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: We said it was because NYNEX had stopped being a billing agent, and it seemed because I've been hearing these advertisements on the radio for SNET, Southern New England Telephone, saying pretty much that they won't be acting as billing agents for the long-distance phone companies.
[09:51.110 --> 09:58.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I just sort of made a logical jump that maybe NYNEX was doing the exact same thing.
[09:59.790 --> 10:01.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it turns out not to be the case.
[10:01.830 --> 10:08.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: It turns out that what, in fact, happened was some sort of a billing snafu.
[10:09.030 --> 10:12.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was an article in the paper last week called, Hold the Line.
[10:12.650 --> 10:13.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Charge is coming.
[10:13.730 --> 10:15.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did your last NYNEX bill seem too low?
[10:16.130 --> 10:22.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, your next bill may seem too high, all because of an error by AT&T, which uses NYNEX to bill and collect for its long-distance calling.
[10:22.670 --> 10:24.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not quite sure what kind of error this was.
[10:24.730 --> 10:32.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: According to AT&T, the data wasn't lost, it was sent, but was rejected by the billing equipment because of an error in software code.
[10:34.250 --> 10:44.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not really sure what kind of error could cause something like that to fall apart, but NYNEX was saying pretty much that it was an AT&T problem.
[10:44.670 --> 10:47.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, if you called NYNEX, something happened over there.
[10:47.410 --> 10:48.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's try this, first of all.
[10:48.850 --> 10:54.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Something happened at NYNEX within the last 24 hours, because yesterday they were saying one thing, today they're saying something else.
[10:56.590 --> 10:57.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to try this.
[10:57.550 --> 10:58.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hopefully we won't lose Bernie.
[10:59.270 --> 11:00.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here comes our dial tone.
[11:02.410 --> 11:03.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, that's not the dial tone.
[11:03.530 --> 11:04.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where's the dial tone?
[11:04.290 --> 11:04.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, there we go.
[11:05.310 --> 11:07.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now we're going to dial away.
[11:11.160 --> 11:13.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, what number should we call it?
[11:13.060 --> 11:13.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll call this number.
[11:16.400 --> 11:17.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see what kind of recording we get.
[11:20.180 --> 11:21.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: We lost Bernie.
[11:22.900 --> 11:24.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for calling NYNEX.
[11:24.820 --> 11:35.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you are calling with regard to the AT&T portion of your bill, please call AT&T at 1-800-222-0300.
[11:35.820 --> 11:40.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: To expedite your call, respond by pressing the keys on your telephone.
[11:40.400 --> 11:41.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, expedite the call.
[11:41.740 --> 11:46.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to hang up and try something else, because, uh, that, um, that is what you've been getting today.
[11:47.080 --> 11:58.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yesterday, if you had called that same number, you would have heard something to the effect of, uh, if you're calling by the AT&T portion of your bill, AT&T had a problem with, uh, with the billing portion and call them.
[11:58.720 --> 12:00.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now they're not being so accusatory.
[12:01.340 --> 12:03.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, I guess some words were spoken.
[12:04.060 --> 12:05.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: But anyway, if you call, this is very interesting.
[12:05.500 --> 12:10.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you happen to call AT&T, um, what happens is this.
[12:12.640 --> 12:14.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to, uh, get our dial tone.
[12:18.980 --> 12:20.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Very useful service here.
[12:22.080 --> 12:26.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for calling the AT&T Account Servicing Center.
[12:26.580 --> 12:32.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have a Touch-Tone phone and have questions about your AT&T bill, please press 1.
[12:33.440 --> 12:34.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: For questions about...
[12:34.640 --> 12:35.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that's what we're going to do.
[12:35.540 --> 12:36.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to hit 1 right now.
[12:36.880 --> 12:38.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...wards, press 2.
[12:47.400 --> 12:49.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: I see you're calling from...
[12:49.600 --> 12:56.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: 2, 1, 2, 2, 7, 9, 3, 4, 0, 6.
[12:56.720 --> 12:59.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: If this is your home phone number, press 1.
[13:00.220 --> 13:03.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I practically live here, so, yeah, okay, why not?
[13:03.600 --> 13:08.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're calling about AT&T law business service or charges, press 1.
[13:09.140 --> 13:12.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're calling about your local service or charges, press 2.
[13:13.600 --> 13:16.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: To arrange to pay your bill, press 3.
[13:17.260 --> 13:20.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: To hear these options again, press 8.
[13:22.160 --> 13:23.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, what shall we press?
[13:24.140 --> 13:24.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Any idea?
[13:25.640 --> 13:26.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's press this.
[13:27.320 --> 13:31.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: If at any time during this call you're not sure what to do, just stay on the line.
[13:32.060 --> 13:33.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll repeat your choices.
[13:34.220 --> 13:37.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here are your AT&T service choices.
[13:37.200 --> 13:41.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: For billing questions or problems, press 1.
[13:42.120 --> 13:45.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: For rates and dialing instructions, press 2.
[13:45.900 --> 13:51.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: To check on your true rewards balance or to redeem points, press 3.
[13:51.080 --> 13:56.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: For information on other AT&T products and services, press 4.
[13:57.200 --> 14:01.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Please have your AT&T bill ready, so I can help you.
[14:01.960 --> 14:05.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: If there's a call on your bill you don't recognize, press 1.
[14:06.840 --> 14:10.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you would like a credit for a call on your bill, press 2.
[14:10.400 --> 14:15.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: To hear your AT&T service choices again, press 3.
[14:16.040 --> 14:21.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: For other billing questions or to speak with an AT&T service representative, press 0.
[14:24.630 --> 14:26.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Please wait while we access your records.
[14:36.270 --> 14:37.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think they're having difficulty.
[14:37.790 --> 14:38.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: We are still processing your request.
[14:38.970 --> 14:45.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they're probably not going to find anything because I don't think we even use AT&T on that phone line, so we'll just put a stop to that.
[14:45.610 --> 14:46.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think Bernie's back.
[14:47.510 --> 14:48.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is anybody there?
[14:52.560 --> 14:53.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, they hung up.
[14:54.280 --> 14:55.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess they didn't like the sound of my voice.
[14:55.920 --> 15:03.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, what's interesting about that is, well, all of a sudden, 1-800-MY-ANI-IS has become 1-800-222-0300.
[15:03.660 --> 15:07.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: You just have to hit one Touch-Tone and it'll tell you what your phone number is.
[15:07.120 --> 15:10.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's very exciting news, and you never have to talk to an AT&T representative.
[15:12.120 --> 15:15.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just more technical advancements week after week here.
[15:16.580 --> 15:18.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, let's see if Bernie is with us now.
[15:18.940 --> 15:19.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[15:21.100 --> 15:22.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: It really doesn't like the sound of my voice.
[15:22.680 --> 15:24.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: It hangs up as soon as it gets me.
[15:25.920 --> 15:26.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Phiber Optik, you're here.
[15:27.220 --> 15:28.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's new with you?
[15:29.860 --> 15:30.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see.
[15:31.940 --> 15:33.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why are we getting feedback like this?
[15:33.940 --> 15:35.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Must be headphones.
[15:36.140 --> 15:37.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Something's turned way up.
[15:37.340 --> 15:38.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, okay, that's better.
[15:38.380 --> 15:38.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[15:38.800 --> 15:39.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: So what's been happening?
[15:39.860 --> 15:40.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you have?
[15:41.340 --> 15:42.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see.
[15:43.560 --> 15:47.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Problems with Windows MT that don't bear mentioning.
[15:51.680 --> 16:00.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: If I'm not mistaken, I think there were some new security holes that were announced within the past week or two, I think.
[16:00.460 --> 16:00.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[16:00.900 --> 16:06.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know that there were some security holes announced concerning Sun's Java.
[16:07.400 --> 16:15.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they were actually owning up to the responsibility of having the security holes corrected.
[16:16.440 --> 16:28.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Had to do with people being able to access, just as an example, people being able to access files on a remote person's hard drive through Java.
[16:28.500 --> 16:29.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[16:29.320 --> 16:31.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So Java's a real security nightmare, from what I've been hearing.
[16:32.440 --> 16:33.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's got its problems.
[16:34.040 --> 16:55.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: There was a similar problem that was announced a few weeks ago, close to a month ago, concerning JavaScript, which wasn't actually written by Sun, was written by Netscape, and was incorporated into the recent Netscape navigators that support Java.
[16:55.960 --> 17:10.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: And JavaScript was meant as an extension to HTML that would allow somebody who doesn't really know Java or isn't really familiar with programming languages to access some of the features of Java through simple HTML hooks.
[17:10.540 --> 17:26.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And there were various security problems with that, along the lines of being able to monitor somebody's history, every site that they've visited that's in their cache, being able to access remote files and directories on a person's hard drive, and so on.
[17:26.760 --> 17:28.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hang on, we're going to try Bernie S one more time.
[17:28.280 --> 17:28.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[17:29.120 --> 17:29.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[17:29.760 --> 17:37.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: AT&T has a collect call from Bernie S at the Bust County Correctional Facility.
[17:38.700 --> 17:40.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: To refuse this call, hang up.
[17:41.860 --> 17:47.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you accept this call, do not use three-way or call waiting features, or you will be disconnected.
[17:48.460 --> 17:51.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: To accept this call, dial one now.
[17:52.200 --> 17:52.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you.
[17:54.040 --> 17:54.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[17:54.800 --> 17:57.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Kept hanging up on me for some reason, but you're back with us now.
[17:57.460 --> 18:01.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, apparently the system detected the dial tone, and hung up about a second.
[18:02.100 --> 18:03.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Didn't like it very much.
[18:03.500 --> 18:03.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[18:04.160 --> 18:11.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was also told by a guard that I could not use the phone I was on, and he told me to use one of the phones in the lower level, which is much noisier.
[18:11.900 --> 18:15.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: I explained to him that I couldn't hear in the lower level, but I may have trouble hearing you.
[18:15.860 --> 18:16.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's why.
[18:16.680 --> 18:24.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, right now Phiber Optik is talking about some Java exploits, so we'll continue with that, and if anything comes up, you let us know.
[18:26.020 --> 18:26.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[18:27.560 --> 18:28.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you think he heard us?
[18:29.020 --> 18:29.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[18:29.800 --> 18:33.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can hear snippets of conversation, so go ahead.
[18:33.420 --> 18:33.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[18:34.000 --> 18:34.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: He heard enough, I think.
[18:35.000 --> 18:35.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[18:36.380 --> 18:49.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so basically what I was saying is that there were various problems that were found in JavaScript, which is an extension to HTML from Netscape that's supposed to provide Java-like features for people that don't know the Java language.
[18:50.020 --> 18:54.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: There are various security problems uncovered with that that Netscape is supposed to be correcting.
[18:57.260 --> 18:59.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm trying to think of...
[19:00.440 --> 19:05.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was almost sure there were some other security holes that were recently uncovered.
[19:06.280 --> 19:09.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm sure there's no end of security holes that are popping up with this.
[19:09.720 --> 19:14.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I keep hearing about lots of other ones as well that people mail me about.
[19:14.460 --> 19:17.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: But since I don't use Java to start with, it doesn't really affect me.
[19:17.500 --> 19:18.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm trying to remember.
[19:18.820 --> 19:27.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I could have sworn I remember hearing about something recently in Linux, or Linux, or whatever your particular preference of pronunciation is.
[19:27.760 --> 19:29.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: A Java application?
[19:29.040 --> 19:30.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, nothing to do with Java.
[19:30.960 --> 19:34.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I could have sworn, though, that recently I remembered reading something on...
[19:34.600 --> 19:35.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sendmail?
[19:35.480 --> 19:35.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Elm?
[19:36.040 --> 19:36.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something like that?
[19:39.020 --> 19:40.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm trying to think if it was Sendmail.
[19:40.820 --> 19:41.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think it was Sendmail.
[19:43.840 --> 19:45.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, let's run down the list.
[19:45.620 --> 19:47.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have the split VT problem.
[19:47.360 --> 19:49.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right, well, that's sort of been covered.
[19:49.860 --> 19:50.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[19:50.140 --> 19:51.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think that was even in Time Magazine by now.
[19:53.580 --> 19:57.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Elm filter problem, which affected pretty much everybody.
[19:57.320 --> 19:57.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[19:59.840 --> 20:03.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you happen to notice anything recently about Linux?
[20:05.380 --> 20:08.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's been running a little slow, but I don't think that's...
[20:08.040 --> 20:09.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's probably a virus.
[20:09.280 --> 20:10.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think that's anything...
[20:10.660 --> 20:11.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Any exploit.
[20:12.740 --> 20:14.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, no, everything seems to be fine.
[20:14.800 --> 20:14.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[20:15.040 --> 20:16.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll have to double-check on that.
[20:16.220 --> 20:16.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nothing to complain about.
[20:17.280 --> 20:17.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[20:19.220 --> 20:19.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hmm.
[20:20.620 --> 20:21.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I'm...
[20:21.580 --> 20:23.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Our system is in perfect shape.
[20:23.940 --> 20:24.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah?
[20:24.320 --> 20:30.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, apart from being, you know, mail-bound a few times and having all kinds of fun things happen along those lines.
[20:31.040 --> 20:33.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, everything is running just smoothly.
[20:33.560 --> 20:33.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[20:33.640 --> 20:35.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Our website is doing incredible, by the way.
[20:36.060 --> 20:40.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have something close to 2 million hits since we started back in January.
[20:40.800 --> 20:41.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's total hits.
[20:41.900 --> 20:42.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of various pages.
[20:42.980 --> 20:43.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's a lot.
[20:44.280 --> 20:44.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[20:44.620 --> 20:47.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the Secret Service portion of that is doing quite well, too.
[20:47.880 --> 20:49.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of people downloading information there.
[20:49.800 --> 20:51.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, this is something interesting.
[20:51.520 --> 20:54.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: I decided to look at the information myself, which...
[20:54.260 --> 21:00.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, of course, I've done that before, but I never actually printed it out and looked at it in the order we put it in.
[21:00.420 --> 21:19.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of times, a lot of times, the list of names, the list of, I guess, code names that the Secret Service uses, for instance, Blackboard is the Secret Service Protective Intelligence Division, whatever that is.
[21:20.340 --> 21:24.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you see this in, like, various different orders.
[21:24.000 --> 21:28.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: But we decided to split it up into orders of what they are.
[21:28.420 --> 21:29.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: For instance, locations.
[21:29.800 --> 21:30.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It gets their own section.
[21:31.140 --> 21:32.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: People gets their own section.
[21:32.240 --> 21:39.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: So what I have here is I have a printout of people based on their code names.
[21:39.260 --> 21:41.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you realize something very interesting here.
[21:41.400 --> 21:42.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Look at the very first one.
[21:42.560 --> 21:43.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The first one is Calico.
[21:44.040 --> 21:46.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's Eleanor Mondale.
[21:46.600 --> 21:46.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: See that?
[21:47.480 --> 21:51.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Then you've got Cameo, which is Joan Mondale.
[21:51.720 --> 21:54.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got Cavalier, which is Walter Mondale.
[21:54.480 --> 21:56.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got Centurion, which is Theodore Mondale.
[21:56.660 --> 21:59.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got Chessman, which is William Mondale.
[21:59.800 --> 22:03.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, Phiber, what is the parallel?
[22:03.920 --> 22:07.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, what is the same thing that all those names have in common?
[22:07.400 --> 22:08.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, they begin with a C?
[22:08.460 --> 22:09.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: They all begin with a C.
[22:09.540 --> 22:11.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: They all begin with a C.
[22:11.400 --> 22:14.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, let's move on to the Carter administration.
[22:14.900 --> 22:18.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we see that Rosalind Carter was Dancer.
[22:18.460 --> 22:20.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jimmy Carter was both Dasher and Deacon.
[22:21.640 --> 22:23.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And Donder and Blitzen and all those.
[22:24.240 --> 22:26.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jeff Carter was Deckhand.
[22:26.260 --> 22:27.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jack Carter, Derby.
[22:27.980 --> 22:29.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Chip Carter, Diamond.
[22:29.360 --> 22:30.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: James Carter IV, Digger.
[22:31.460 --> 22:32.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sarah Carter, Duchess.
[22:32.860 --> 22:33.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jason Carter, Dusty.
[22:34.020 --> 22:35.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Amy Carter, Dynamo.
[22:35.780 --> 22:36.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Very interesting.
[22:36.760 --> 22:37.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And now you've got the Clintons.
[22:38.540 --> 22:39.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hillary Clinton is Evergreen.
[22:40.020 --> 22:40.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bill Clinton is Eagle.
[22:41.120 --> 22:42.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see what we've discovered here?
[22:43.100 --> 22:47.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: When they have an administration, all of the letters of the code names begin with the same letter.
[22:47.900 --> 22:50.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: I want to be able to add some input on that as well.
[22:50.720 --> 22:51.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: What do you have?
[22:51.860 --> 22:59.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I read in a book recently, probably one of the books that was seized by the Secret Service when my home was raided last year.
[22:59.220 --> 23:00.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's called Inside the White House.
[23:01.140 --> 23:02.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's published by Simon & Schuster.
[23:02.560 --> 23:08.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: It gives you a lot of insight about how the Secret Service operates and what goes on behind the doors of the White House.
[23:08.180 --> 23:18.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's said that every first family and every family that the Secret Service protects, the code names for that family all start with the same letter.
[23:18.340 --> 23:23.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: So you may have the first family and then all their code names will start with one letter.
[23:24.120 --> 23:29.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then the Vice President's family, as you notice with the same on Dale, they will start with a different letter.
[23:29.740 --> 23:37.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: But just for consistency, they keep each family's first letter for each family's code name, the person's code name, the same.
[23:37.840 --> 23:44.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that seems to be a long-standing tradition with the Secret Service, with the Executive Protective Division of the Secret Service.
[23:44.560 --> 23:45.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's interesting.
[23:45.140 --> 23:49.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I was never able to see that before until the list was sorted in a particular order.
[23:50.580 --> 23:52.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: It seems to me that's kind of a simplistic way to do it.
[23:52.960 --> 23:58.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, are they trying to keep these names secret, or do they really expect people to figure it out?
[23:58.480 --> 24:01.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, they're obviously not secret because they're widely available.
[24:01.920 --> 24:03.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: The press is fully aware of them.
[24:03.260 --> 24:15.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: Although, when it comes to criminal prosecutions, the Secret Service will often testify that these names are restricted or secret in some way, when, in fact, they're not at all.
[24:16.140 --> 24:21.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just one of the other pieces of misinformation that they tend to bring up whenever they're prosecuting someone.
[24:23.060 --> 24:23.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[24:23.680 --> 24:30.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think that's a good indication that they're really not keeping them that secret if they all begin with the same letter in the first place.
[24:30.280 --> 24:30.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[24:30.700 --> 24:34.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was kind of surprised by that, just being able to figure it out just by looking at it.
[24:34.920 --> 24:37.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Any other little tidbits like that that jump out?
[24:37.900 --> 24:38.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's really an excellent book.
[24:38.760 --> 24:42.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anyone who has any interest in how the Secret Service operates should check out it.
[24:42.580 --> 24:43.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wish I could...
[24:43.820 --> 24:48.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: William... I honestly can't remember the... I think the author's first name is William, but that's not a lot of help to people out there.
[24:48.520 --> 24:50.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I know it's published by Simon & Schuster.
[24:50.480 --> 24:51.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: It came out last year.
[24:51.620 --> 24:52.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's called Inside the White House.
[24:52.820 --> 25:01.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's a lot of good information there about present and past administrations and how the Secret Service has operated with those administrations.
[25:02.020 --> 25:19.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's a lot of comical information there about Secret Service agents getting arrested for breaking various laws and how Secret Service agents have been cited for fraudulently putting information on their expense reports and other embarrassing incidents like that.
[25:19.140 --> 25:21.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: So it's quite a hoot reading the book.
[25:21.440 --> 25:26.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, maybe next week I will have tracked down a copy of this book.
[25:26.100 --> 25:27.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll start hunting for it.
[25:27.560 --> 25:31.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sounds like something our listeners would be interested in, and I certainly would be as well.
[25:32.040 --> 25:35.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: Unfortunately, it just talks about White House Secret Service responsibilities.
[25:36.820 --> 25:41.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: It does stay in there that there's, I think, 2,051 Secret Service agents.
[25:42.500 --> 25:49.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's a separate uniformed division of the Secret Service, apparently, that is assigned exclusively to the White House.
[25:49.000 --> 25:52.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there are also non-uniformed Secret Service agents that are assigned to White House protective duties.
[25:53.140 --> 26:17.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: But the other parts of the Secret Service, the parts that are assigned to trying to combat credit card fraud, telecommunications fraud, counterfeiting, and computer crimes, there's still a total of 2,000 un-uniformed or non-uniformed agents.
[26:18.120 --> 26:23.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think about 500 of those, I'm guessing, I think it's about 500 of those are assigned to the White House.
[26:24.000 --> 26:27.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: The other 1,500 or so are responsible for those other duties.
[26:27.520 --> 26:33.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: But this book does not describe any of the other responsibilities in any detail, just those around the Secret Service.
[26:33.280 --> 26:42.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: The person who wrote the book also wrote a book called Inside the FBI, which was very interesting, gave you a lot of insight, had some tie-ins to the Secret Service.
[26:42.400 --> 26:52.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: But a book really ought to be written on how the Secret Service operates in its non-presidential roles, because there's a lot of... I'm sure there's a lot of stories that need to be told.
[26:52.360 --> 26:57.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I've learned a lot just in the past year dealing with them personally that really opened my eyes.
[26:57.580 --> 27:05.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'll just say we're compiling lots of information, so there are quite a few stories to be told, and hopefully we'll get to tell them all at some point.
[27:05.820 --> 27:07.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to start taking phone calls.
[27:07.240 --> 27:09.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-279-3400.
[27:09.340 --> 27:10.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: The program is off the hook.
[27:11.080 --> 27:17.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're talking about billing snafus in the Secret Service and prisoners and various other things like that.
[27:17.860 --> 27:19.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: PHiber, were you surprised by the AT&T thing?
[27:20.800 --> 27:21.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, actually...
[27:21.680 --> 27:23.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: How could they mess up like that?
[27:23.160 --> 27:25.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: How could the billing not work?
[27:25.220 --> 27:30.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I thought it might have been a problem with NYNEX if they didn't get billing from anybody else.
[27:30.740 --> 27:33.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you know anyone that doesn't use AT&T that did get their bill?
[27:33.640 --> 27:34.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everyone I know use AT&T.
[27:35.520 --> 27:36.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you don't use it?
[27:36.120 --> 27:37.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Joker doesn't use AT&T.
[27:37.300 --> 27:37.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's wrong with you?
[27:39.020 --> 27:40.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, I do use AT&T.
[27:40.360 --> 27:42.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Remember, I got slammed last month.
[27:42.440 --> 27:43.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you got slammed to AT&T.
[27:44.060 --> 27:45.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Here's what's really interesting.
[27:45.160 --> 27:49.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: I get a phone call about a month ago at 8 in the morning from MCI.
[27:50.260 --> 27:51.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: 8 in the morning?
[27:51.260 --> 27:51.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: 8 in the morning.
[27:52.200 --> 27:52.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yada, yada, yada.
[27:53.340 --> 27:53.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: MCI come in.
[27:53.980 --> 27:55.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm like, no, I use AT&T.
[27:55.140 --> 27:56.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, AT&T's a very good service, sir.
[27:56.840 --> 27:58.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who wants to talk about long distance at 8 in the morning?
[27:58.880 --> 27:59.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: I didn't.
[27:59.420 --> 28:05.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I tried to get off the phone as quick as possible, said, hi, remove my name from all your calling lists, blah, blah, blah.
[28:05.200 --> 28:05.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[28:05.700 --> 28:06.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I get my phone bill.
[28:06.680 --> 28:07.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: I go to pay it.
[28:07.460 --> 28:09.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I look down, and it's MCI.
[28:10.020 --> 28:10.400]  Uh-huh.
[28:11.420 --> 28:13.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, you know, I'm like, I don't use MCI.
[28:13.460 --> 28:13.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I had this happen.
[28:15.160 --> 28:17.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was very strange, as my phone number, obviously, is billed.
[28:18.340 --> 28:20.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have it listed under a different name.
[28:21.340 --> 28:27.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: The MCI bill was under the name I have it listed under, not the billing contact.
[28:27.740 --> 28:27.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[28:28.300 --> 28:31.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, you know, the listing is, you know, totally fictitious.
[28:31.640 --> 28:35.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so that's the name that appeared on my MCI bill, which was very odd.
[28:35.460 --> 28:37.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I called them back, and I said, you know, hi, what's going on with this?
[28:37.660 --> 28:39.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was contacted a month ago by a telemarketer.
[28:39.600 --> 28:41.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: I said, no, I don't want to do this.
[28:41.640 --> 28:42.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, go away.
[28:42.420 --> 28:43.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Take me off your calling list.
[28:43.220 --> 28:43.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: You call me again.
[28:43.860 --> 28:44.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm suing you.
[28:46.140 --> 28:49.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: And he said, well, this was in regards to Amway.
[28:50.760 --> 28:51.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Amway?
[28:51.340 --> 28:52.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's what I said.
[28:52.300 --> 28:54.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: And he said, are you an employee of Amway?
[28:54.440 --> 28:56.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I said, no, I have absolutely nothing to do with Amway.
[28:56.620 --> 29:07.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: And he said, well, this was, it's marked on here that you switched over to MCI as a service, some sort of promotion that they had with Amway.
[29:08.300 --> 29:08.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
[29:08.680 --> 29:09.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, yeah.
[29:09.500 --> 29:14.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: But long story short, I got my MCI bill, and it was much higher than my AT&T bill.
[29:14.560 --> 29:18.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think they're charging 13 or 14 cents a minute, whereas AT&T is like 10 or 11 cents.
[29:18.840 --> 29:19.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where's the savings?
[29:20.420 --> 29:21.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know.
[29:21.380 --> 29:22.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want my dime a minute rates.
[29:22.780 --> 29:25.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want Candace Bergen to come to my house and expand it to me.
[29:25.620 --> 29:27.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're going to have to deal with Sprint, then, if you want that.
[29:27.680 --> 29:29.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you want Candace Bergen, you've got to deal with that.
[29:30.480 --> 29:32.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's, well, Bernie, you've got no choice at all, do you?
[29:33.460 --> 29:33.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry?
[29:33.820 --> 29:36.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're stuck with O+, and I think it's AT&T.
[29:36.420 --> 29:37.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's ZPD, zero-plus dialing.
[29:38.100 --> 29:40.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Although, I don't know who carries these calls.
[29:40.660 --> 29:47.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think these calls are actually carried by AT&T, the ones from the Bell Anika roots from this prison.
[29:47.860 --> 29:57.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: The previous prison, it was ZPD, and at the federal prison last year, it was also ZPD, which I think is somehow associated with Sprint in some way, perhaps.
[29:57.380 --> 29:59.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: But this is actually AT&T, I think.
[30:01.580 --> 30:06.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, it is AT&T, because that's what they say when they announce the call.
[30:06.580 --> 30:08.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's AT&T dialing.
[30:09.280 --> 30:10.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh...
[30:10.160 --> 30:17.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: I imagine that'll change pretty soon now that Bell Atlantic and all the other regional Bell Operating Companies can handle long distance.
[30:18.040 --> 30:20.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know, is that something that maybe Phiber is aware of?
[30:21.040 --> 30:29.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is that something that the RBOCs can handle now, is long distance, or are they still waiting for some other regulatory lifting?
[30:30.300 --> 30:32.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: If the RBOCs can handle what?
[30:32.600 --> 30:33.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: intra-LATA calls?
[30:34.260 --> 30:34.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sorry?
[30:35.280 --> 30:37.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think he means collect, uh, from...
[30:37.820 --> 30:39.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Apparently, a part of this new...
[30:39.560 --> 30:55.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've been cut off from the rest of the world for quite a while in prison, but I'd heard that this new telecommunications bill permitted regional Bell Operating Companies to actually carry long distance calls and enter the long distance market.
[30:55.220 --> 30:55.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is that right?
[30:56.280 --> 30:59.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, yeah, I think they were given permission.
[30:59.360 --> 31:00.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I haven't, uh...
[31:00.800 --> 31:08.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or at least I do remember hearing that other regional Bells were going to be allowed to, uh, operate in the local exchange market.
[31:09.060 --> 31:21.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, for example, I can't possibly imagine this ever physically taking place, but I think that, for example, Southwestern Bell would be able to provide phone service in NYNEX Territory and vice versa.
[31:22.060 --> 31:25.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just in case you're not confused enough already in Southwestern Bell in New York.
[31:25.480 --> 31:25.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's great.
[31:26.700 --> 31:29.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, 212-279-3400 program is off the hook.
[31:29.660 --> 31:31.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're taking phone calls, and you're the first caller.
[31:31.640 --> 31:31.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[31:32.800 --> 31:33.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello, uh, Emmanuel.
[31:34.160 --> 31:34.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: How you doing?
[31:34.960 --> 31:35.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Very well.
[31:35.980 --> 31:39.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, some very interesting things, uh, concerning telephone service.
[31:39.780 --> 31:40.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, try to speak up.
[31:40.720 --> 31:41.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're a bit low.
[31:41.620 --> 31:43.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, uh, yeah, all right, fine.
[31:44.440 --> 31:47.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I've contacted, uh, the good old Bell Atlantic.
[31:47.680 --> 32:04.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think I live in a Bell Atlantic area, and I'm putting in another line, and I was going over account information, and apparently now my long-distance company is LBDS World Com, and what happened was, uh, the lady was giving up, uh, you know, basically reviewing the records,
[32:05.140 --> 32:14.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: and she came up with this 0488 as some kind of identifying code for, of all things, in their system, they have it as ITT.
[32:14.920 --> 32:27.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, ITT was the old carrier for, uh, 10488, and since they were taken over, uh, first by, uh, Metro Media, and then by LDDS, that's, uh, their records probably just haven't reflected the change.
[32:27.820 --> 32:29.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's like Sprint used to be U.S. Tel and Sprint before they merged.
[32:31.700 --> 32:32.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[32:32.760 --> 32:38.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, among other things, yes, I was, uh, I was involved in Amway some years ago, yes.
[32:38.160 --> 32:41.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not ashamed to say that, but it's like, uh, I gotta deal with it.
[32:41.960 --> 32:42.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[32:42.600 --> 32:51.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, actually, this is going back in 1984, Amway was actually a catalyst for the spread of MCI service.
[32:52.600 --> 32:53.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that so?
[32:53.600 --> 32:54.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yes.
[32:54.240 --> 32:54.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: How did that happen?
[32:54.960 --> 32:55.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: How, how are they connected?
[32:56.420 --> 33:01.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, this is a long while back, uh, I didn't bring up the information.
[33:03.240 --> 33:06.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we got some prison noise, uh, coming in, so, uh, try to speak up.
[33:07.440 --> 33:12.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, uh, it's pretty much, uh, what I'll talk about at this point.
[33:12.780 --> 33:14.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, uh, just hope that Bernie S.
[33:14.900 --> 33:15.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: is holding up well.
[33:16.760 --> 33:17.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's all.
[33:17.420 --> 33:18.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're not going to tell us the Amway connection?
[33:19.560 --> 33:35.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I don't have enough information to be, you know, to be exact, but, like I said, I was involved in Amway a couple years ago, and, uh, there, it was, uh, it was a sales pitch, among other things, but there was, you know, something along the lines of a joint venture.
[33:35.300 --> 33:35.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[33:36.320 --> 33:41.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's all, that's all I remember clearly, you know, those details, that's just research on it.
[33:41.620 --> 33:44.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, uh, well, we'll check into it then.
[33:44.260 --> 33:44.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: How's that?
[33:44.620 --> 33:45.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you very much.
[33:45.440 --> 33:46.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, thanks for calling.
[33:47.240 --> 33:52.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, we had, uh, some dealings with, uh, with various, um, companies.
[33:53.480 --> 34:04.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I don't remember the exact name of it, but I do remember that if you made O-plus calls through MCI a few years ago, you were, you got connected to an AOS, another, uh, another, uh, phone company.
[34:04.320 --> 34:06.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know it was, it was IT something.
[34:06.640 --> 34:07.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: It wasn't ITT.
[34:07.560 --> 34:08.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was ITI.
[34:08.480 --> 34:09.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: ITI, that's it, thank you.
[34:10.220 --> 34:19.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: ITI would handle MCI zero-plus calls, so that was kind of disturbing because they would charge a lot more than, than any other company would, uh, that would handle zero-plus.
[34:19.840 --> 34:27.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you had that connection, uh, various other telemarketers, which were causing all kinds of grief because they, uh, were very aggressive and wouldn't take no for an answer.
[34:28.380 --> 34:32.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then you got an Amway connection, or, or you did back then, that we're just learning about now.
[34:33.340 --> 34:39.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, I guess that's something we, uh, we need to hear more about, you know, just where these companies are coming from, who they're connected to.
[34:40.920 --> 34:42.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-279-3400.
[34:42.280 --> 34:42.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[34:42.660 --> 34:42.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[34:43.140 --> 34:45.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, uh, this is, uh, Jeremy.
[34:45.460 --> 34:46.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: I met you at the party.
[34:46.640 --> 34:48.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wanted to thank you for the, uh, ad cafe.
[34:48.860 --> 34:49.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[34:49.440 --> 34:50.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, is Bernie still there?
[34:50.820 --> 34:51.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie's online.
[34:51.840 --> 34:52.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, he is.
[34:52.420 --> 34:52.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, Bernie.
[34:53.000 --> 34:53.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope you're doing all right.
[35:00.080 --> 35:04.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, I guess, uh, it had missed, you know, you had transferred at that point.
[35:04.560 --> 35:09.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it eventually got back to me, and it was, like, a bulldozer ran over it.
[35:10.560 --> 35:11.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I...
[35:11.580 --> 35:11.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sorry about that.
[35:11.940 --> 35:14.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: I thank you for, uh, for, uh, for sending it.
[35:14.120 --> 35:20.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Apparently, at the other institution, the Northampton County Prison, reading materials were considered, uh, contraband.
[35:20.620 --> 35:21.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[35:21.340 --> 35:23.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: I guess they were reading, uh, a dangerous activity.
[35:23.960 --> 35:27.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, uh, this prison, apparently, uh, reading materials can be sent.
[35:27.800 --> 35:31.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, I guess I could give the mailing address where you could send that to...
[35:31.580 --> 35:33.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And do you... are you still a D-19?
[35:34.200 --> 35:34.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sorry?
[35:34.940 --> 35:35.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're still a D-19?
[35:36.460 --> 35:37.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do I what?
[35:37.440 --> 35:38.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you still...
[35:38.000 --> 35:39.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: She's asking about your address.
[35:39.260 --> 35:40.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I know you're a D-block.
[35:40.460 --> 35:41.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, we've got the address here.
[35:41.700 --> 35:47.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, uh, write to, uh, Ed Cummings at C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, Care of Bucks County Prison.
[35:48.140 --> 35:52.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, if you write D-block on there, that will make it, uh, more efficient.
[35:52.860 --> 35:55.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's in Doylestown, Pennsylvania.
[35:56.560 --> 35:56.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Doylestown.
[35:57.040 --> 35:58.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: D-O-Y-L-E-S town.
[35:59.220 --> 36:02.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, and the zip code, I believe, is 1-8-9-0-1.
[36:02.140 --> 36:02.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Am I correct, Bernie?
[36:03.460 --> 36:05.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, let me double-check on that.
[36:05.100 --> 36:07.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Did you mention it's 1730 South Easton Road?
[36:07.980 --> 36:09.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, you know, that's the part I left out.
[36:09.520 --> 36:10.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's probably the most important part.
[36:10.440 --> 36:12.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, 1730, uh, which Easton again?
[36:13.340 --> 36:13.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: West...
[36:13.580 --> 36:15.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: 1730 South Easton.
[36:15.080 --> 36:15.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: South Easton Road.
[36:16.020 --> 36:16.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[36:16.340 --> 36:18.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And Easton is one word, E-A-S-T-O-N.
[36:19.180 --> 36:19.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[36:19.620 --> 36:22.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the zip code is 1-8-9-0-1.
[36:23.000 --> 36:28.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Apparently, it's very important to write on the outside of the package that anything is coming here outside of the envelope.
[36:28.500 --> 36:34.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: It must say reading materials on the outside of the envelope or box or whatever that's coming.
[36:34.540 --> 36:37.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Otherwise, they'll just reject it out of hand and assume it's not reading materials.
[36:37.800 --> 36:39.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, it's got to see reading materials.
[36:39.380 --> 36:45.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, even if it's a letter or a card, make sure it says reading materials and that way it removes all doubt of what's inside.
[36:45.460 --> 36:45.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[36:45.960 --> 36:46.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: And is it open?
[36:46.500 --> 36:46.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you very much.
[36:46.800 --> 36:47.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: I really appreciate it.
[36:47.540 --> 36:53.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: Several people had mailed me, uh, cards, letters, books, and it's really a godsend because this place is so unbelievably...
[36:54.100 --> 36:54.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, boy.
[36:54.880 --> 36:55.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh.
[36:55.320 --> 36:56.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is it opened when you receive it?
[36:57.500 --> 36:58.080]  I'm sorry?
[36:58.180 --> 36:59.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they open everything.
[36:59.640 --> 37:01.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Every piece of mail that you send in is opened.
[37:01.700 --> 37:06.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, technically, when, when they send things out of prisons, they're not supposed to be looked at, but we happen to know that's not true.
[37:07.120 --> 37:10.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can I ask, are there any subjects that writing about is, uh, taboo?
[37:11.740 --> 37:18.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: I, I really don't think so, unless it's something that's obviously, uh, verboten, like, you know, escape plans or something like that.
[37:18.780 --> 37:25.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, no, I, I don't think there's, uh, this prison seems to be a little more progressive, and, and, uh, well, in a lot of ways, it's regressive.
[37:25.860 --> 37:29.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's, uh, they, they don't seem to consider reading a dangerous activity.
[37:29.300 --> 37:37.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, as long as it's something that's not obviously, uh, detrimental to the, uh, the safe and orderly operation of the institution, I, I don't think they really care.
[37:37.480 --> 37:51.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that seems to be, uh, the, the, the phrase that always, uh, is mentioned whenever, say, a copy of 2600 is, is, is rejected because it would, uh, it would interfere with the safe and orderly, uh, operations of, of the institution.
[37:51.520 --> 37:56.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, thanks so much for the call, and thanks everybody who's sending in, uh, material to Bernie S.
[37:56.560 --> 38:00.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It does make a big difference, means a lot to him, and to us to know that people out there care.
[38:01.580 --> 38:05.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I also want to thank people who showed up last week at the At Cafe, uh, event.
[38:05.380 --> 38:06.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was a lot of fun.
[38:06.200 --> 38:11.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: We, uh, basically, we're showing off the web page to a whole lot of people, and it was, uh, it was kind of neat.
[38:11.700 --> 38:17.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, a lot of people got their first taste of what the web and what the Internet is all about, and the, the support for Bernie S.
[38:17.720 --> 38:18.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: was amazing down there.
[38:18.860 --> 38:24.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Almost everybody, uh, wanted to know more about the case, and we're interested in various ways of pursuing it.
[38:24.140 --> 38:34.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I think once you get out, whenever that day comes, which will either be, uh, uh, hopefully as early as May 30th, and, uh, and, and hopefully the Secret Service won't, won't mess things up too much.
[38:34.820 --> 38:38.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I think you'll find a lot of people want to talk to you about this, uh, this whole thing.
[38:39.000 --> 38:43.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it'll, uh, it'll be an interesting subject to, uh, to explore over the years ahead.
[38:44.560 --> 38:47.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: I have a bit of new information about the case, too.
[38:47.380 --> 38:47.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[38:47.840 --> 39:01.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: I, uh, spoke with my attorney, uh, a few days ago, who has, uh, recently made the, the formal, uh, entry of my federal appeal, challenging the, the unconstitutional vagueness of the federal statute that I was convicted of.
[39:01.820 --> 39:06.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, I'll be working with him, hopefully on the outside, if I get out of here on May 30th.
[39:06.440 --> 39:11.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: If not, he'll have to drag himself all the way up here to this prison to go over some of the, the legal fine points of it.
[39:11.920 --> 39:17.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, uh, we discussed some of the, uh, some of the angles that we want to attack in this, in this federal appeal.
[39:18.040 --> 39:29.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's going to be heard later this year, apparently, by a three-judge panel, where three federal judges will make a decision as to whether the, uh, the wording of this federal statute is, is indeed unconstitutionally vague.
[39:29.720 --> 39:35.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: Basically, it comes down to a few term, terms in the, in the wording of the statute that, that aren't defined.
[39:35.800 --> 39:38.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, it's, it's just left very ambiguous.
[39:38.600 --> 39:52.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it's, it's so ambiguous that almost anyone with a computer could be, um, could be charged with violating the statute, whether, um, what, you don't have to have committed any fraud with, with, uh, commonly available equipment or software to, to be convicted.
[39:52.280 --> 39:53.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: So that's what's, what's scary about it.
[39:53.680 --> 39:55.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: So hopefully we can get this thing overturned.
[39:55.040 --> 39:59.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: I won't get the year of my life back or tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees or anything else.
[39:59.960 --> 40:03.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: But if I can spread somebody else from going through this, it'll be a win.
[40:03.580 --> 40:06.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, now, do you have an exact date as to when this will take place?
[40:06.400 --> 40:12.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, it's, uh, the, uh, hearing date has not been set, but my attorney told me it's going to be late this year.
[40:13.080 --> 40:15.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, um, maybe that'll be changed.
[40:15.440 --> 40:19.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: But as far as I know, it'll be sometime in the, uh, uh, in the fall or winter this year.
[40:20.500 --> 40:20.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[40:20.900 --> 40:22.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'll keep, uh, posted on that.
[40:22.240 --> 40:22.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take another phone call.
[40:23.040 --> 40:23.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[40:23.460 --> 40:24.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on off the hook.
[40:24.440 --> 40:25.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, hi.
[40:25.280 --> 40:30.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I was wondering, um, about, uh, cable discramblers.
[40:30.460 --> 40:30.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[40:30.960 --> 40:31.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: What about cable discramblers?
[40:32.160 --> 40:32.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[40:32.660 --> 40:35.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do the, uh, the ones that you build, uh, actually work?
[40:36.680 --> 40:39.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, uh, the ones I build work.
[40:39.980 --> 40:41.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I don't know about the ones other people.
[40:41.420 --> 40:44.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, the ones that say, you know, the seven easy steps and all that kind of stuff.
[40:44.940 --> 40:45.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do those really work?
[40:45.840 --> 40:57.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I, I, I know that, uh, there are lots of boxes floating around and it's a fairly simple thing where, uh, where they're, they're plugged into, uh, the system and basically they just, they just open up everything.
[40:58.020 --> 41:01.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: They, they, they, uh, de-scramble all of your channels, including pay-per-view.
[41:02.260 --> 41:04.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, it's really a pretty, uh, pretty simple thing.
[41:04.440 --> 41:09.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: You do have to, uh, occasionally recharge it or not recharge, but just, uh, plug it back in.
[41:10.920 --> 41:12.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Redo the variable capacitor?
[41:12.620 --> 41:12.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[41:13.420 --> 41:15.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, well, I'm not sure what the exact technical term is.
[41:15.520 --> 41:24.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, uh, actually, uh, the ones that I've heard of floating around actually put the box into a maintenance mode and, um... Oh, is that what it does?
[41:24.620 --> 41:25.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's maintenance mode the whole time?
[41:25.860 --> 41:26.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[41:26.360 --> 41:35.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: And usually the, uh, the box, as I understand it, the box is, is, has a, uh, timer that only allows it to be in maintenance mode a certain amount of time.
[41:35.940 --> 41:37.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: And after which it reverts back...
[41:37.180 --> 41:37.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: The ones that you build?
[41:38.420 --> 41:39.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, yeah.
[41:39.620 --> 41:41.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: The ones that, there's, uh, a couple of simple ones.
[41:41.620 --> 41:56.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And there's also, uh, there, uh, the couple that I saw were either, uh, it was a couple of, uh, logic gates or I saw a couple that used, uh, microcontrollers too that were based on, uh, a chip known as the basic stamp by a lot of, uh, hobbyists.
[41:56.700 --> 41:58.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, there, there are certain timeouts.
[41:58.440 --> 42:04.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, if you just plug the thing in and then, um, then walk away from it, I think it only lasts a couple of hours.
[42:04.780 --> 42:14.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if you leave it plugged in and you put some sort of an FM trap on it as well to prevent any signals from coming down from the cable company, it can last for a, uh, quite a, quite a long time.
[42:14.380 --> 42:14.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[42:14.760 --> 42:17.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, occasionally it has to be done over again.
[42:17.820 --> 42:23.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: But once that happens, uh, you know... Yeah, these instructions I'm looking at are telling me to, like, wrap wire around a nail.
[42:23.280 --> 42:29.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: The thing you have to be careful about, though... Well, you know, that might be good for good luck or something like that.
[42:29.360 --> 42:32.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the thing you have to be careful... No, that's, that's how the, the coil is.
[42:32.720 --> 42:33.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um...
[42:33.120 --> 42:33.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[42:33.840 --> 42:37.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Solid wire and twist around, uh, a nail or a rod.
[42:37.520 --> 42:38.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bernie, what do you got?
[42:38.900 --> 42:39.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Huh?
[42:39.500 --> 42:40.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Bernie.
[42:40.040 --> 42:43.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm only reading about, uh, what's, what's more commonly referred to as a trap.
[42:43.240 --> 42:48.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's really two main methods cable companies use to prevent people from viewing something they're not paying for.
[42:48.920 --> 42:58.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, there's, there's, there's active scrambling where they actually change the, the signal and suppress the, uh, the synchronization signals that are built into the, the video signal.
[42:58.480 --> 43:02.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's, there's jamming, which, which is also used in some of the less sophisticated systems.
[43:02.780 --> 43:08.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the jamming system, they, they actually jam that particular channel with an annoying beep, beep, beep sound.
[43:09.120 --> 43:11.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it puts like a herringbone pattern on the screen.
[43:11.820 --> 43:14.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can build a very simple, uh, filter to filter out the jamming.
[43:16.860 --> 43:18.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: Variable capacitor.
[43:18.740 --> 43:20.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's plans for that in various magazines.
[43:20.520 --> 43:29.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, uh, the, the scrambling message method where the, the video is just all very wavy and out of, out of sync, that's a lot more sophisticated.
[43:29.400 --> 43:30.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: You need to get digital logic circuits for that.
[43:31.020 --> 43:42.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: What most people do instead of building their own boxes, they'll just purchase, uh, the type of cable de-scrambler that, that cable company sells from one of several companies that advertise in the back of various electronic magazines.
[43:43.180 --> 43:44.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I, I purchased one.
[43:44.440 --> 43:45.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It cost about 315 bucks.
[43:45.880 --> 43:50.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: What most people have to do is replace the, the probe, the firmware in that chip.
[43:50.280 --> 43:51.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's a chip called a EEPROM.
[43:51.420 --> 43:55.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: You'll need to replace that with what, what's often called a, a, a tested chip.
[43:55.960 --> 44:02.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it's like Phiber Optik says, it puts the, the box into maintenance mode and allows it to receive all the channels all the time.
[44:02.220 --> 44:08.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: Basically, sometimes you have to reset it by unplugging it or shorting out the, uh, the CPU with a, with a push button or something you can put on there.
[44:09.100 --> 44:12.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, but, uh, basically allow you to receive everything all the time.
[44:12.240 --> 44:21.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: And unlike a lot of magazine articles, there's no way the cable company can, can, uh, readily tell if you, you have one of these boxes.
[44:21.700 --> 44:38.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: Although one technique they've used to catch people is to, uh, exploit some of the, uh, some of the, the programs out there that are stored on these, these, these illicit test chips by broadcasting a, uh, a channel that the, that the legal boxes won't be picking up,
[44:38.420 --> 44:41.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: but the, but the test box, but the, the bogus boxes will be picking up.
[44:42.100 --> 44:46.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there'll be some sort of ad to broadcast, like, to get your free t-shirt, call this 800 number.
[44:46.860 --> 44:53.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you call it 800 number, um, they use an ANI feature, which allows them to know where you're calling from.
[44:53.360 --> 44:57.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I know everyone calling that number at that time must have one of these bogus boxes.
[44:57.420 --> 45:09.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: So if you see any too-good-to-be-true offers on your cable after you've been watching, uh, watching it with your, your, your illicitly programmed cable box, it's not a good idea to respond to it because it may well be a trap of some sort.
[45:09.720 --> 45:18.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, if, uh, if you do see a number like that, it might be a good idea to hop onto pound hack on IRC and post the number there so everybody there will call it and, uh, and get visits from their cable company.
[45:18.780 --> 45:19.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[45:19.660 --> 45:22.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, it seems like a pretty uh, low-tech way to, to, to, to find people.
[45:22.580 --> 45:29.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they've actually started to have commercials on, uh, subscribers of Time Warner cable, uh, here in the area.
[45:29.780 --> 45:33.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're actually having commercials to try to deter cable theft.
[45:34.420 --> 45:39.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a commercial basically where, uh, there's a guy appearing before a judge claiming he didn't know it was illegal.
[45:40.020 --> 45:44.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then, uh, you hear this big, loud, booming voice at the end of the commercial saying, now you know.
[45:44.560 --> 45:52.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, now, this is also something very interesting because we're talking about, uh, about this particular bit of, uh, of hardware that is used by many people.
[45:52.460 --> 45:54.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I don't think any of us actually use it ourselves.
[45:55.000 --> 45:59.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've experimented with it, we've played around with it, and we're trying to figure out how it works, how the cable companies work.
[45:59.820 --> 46:01.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, I've got a cable bill.
[46:01.280 --> 46:10.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's kind of high, but, uh, I do pay the cable bill because, uh, doing that would be, uh, I don't know, kind of, uh, kind of not the kind of thing I'd like to do at this particular point in time.
[46:10.800 --> 46:21.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, that's, uh, I think that's an important parallel to Bernie S.'s case where because he had knowledge about certain bits of, uh, technology and because he had an interest in it, that meant he was guilty of, of fraud.
[46:21.560 --> 46:22.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't necessarily have to be so.
[46:22.940 --> 46:24.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: By all means, ask questions.
[46:24.180 --> 46:26.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: By all means, experiment and try things out.
[46:26.200 --> 46:30.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't mean that you have to, uh, steal things and become a criminal in everybody's mind.
[46:30.560 --> 46:41.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the more people that, that do this, that play around with it and don't use it for their own personal gain, uh, I think the more people will see that there are legitimate uses for this technology.
[46:42.080 --> 46:59.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: Everybody should really be aware that the mere possession of a cable box with a test chip in it or just a test chip itself falls under the, uh, the new federal, um, um, statute as being a federal felony punishable by up to 15 years imprisonment and a $250,000
[46:59.400 --> 46:59.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: fine.
[46:59.920 --> 47:11.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's, uh, Title 18, Section 1029A-6B, possession of, uh, hardware or software for the modification of telecommunication instruments for the unauthorized access to telecommunication services.
[47:11.580 --> 47:13.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's what I was charged and convicted with.
[47:13.720 --> 47:21.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, you don't have to, to even be using this stuff to be, to be convicted of, of this felony, which is so scary.
[47:21.420 --> 47:26.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, you can, uh, you can buy these, uh, these chips readily from various companies in the back of electronics magazines.
[47:26.920 --> 47:32.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: You could write your own software and be convicted of this felony and not even having used the software.
[47:32.640 --> 47:50.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, uh, beware, if you're going to experiment with this technology, just beware of the risks, that, uh, you don't have to be committing any fraud at all, uh, or defrauding anyone to be convicted of a federal felony just for possessing something that could be used in that manner as long as the government could show that you knew it could be used that way.
[47:50.220 --> 47:56.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And also, the people that you buy it from, you know, they could be just giving your name away to whoever and, uh, putting you on some kind of a list.
[47:56.860 --> 47:57.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you got to be careful with that too.
[47:58.600 --> 48:03.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I just wanted to, without wasting any more time, I had to tell you something that I figured out at the phone booth.
[48:04.000 --> 48:04.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't work anymore.
[48:04.680 --> 48:05.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was working for a couple days though.
[48:05.920 --> 48:07.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what this was.
[48:07.340 --> 48:14.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: When you typed 196 pound, it would go click, click, give you about a second, and then give you a brand new dial tone.
[48:15.040 --> 48:16.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was just like having a dial tone from home.
[48:16.960 --> 48:18.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can call anywhere for free.
[48:18.200 --> 48:18.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: From a payphone?
[48:19.180 --> 48:19.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[48:19.500 --> 48:20.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't work anymore though.
[48:20.540 --> 48:20.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh huh.
[48:21.400 --> 48:22.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Working a couple of weeks ago.
[48:22.380 --> 48:29.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: If, uh, if you call 1-0-0-9-6, uh, then 1-700-5-5-5-4-1-4-1, that'll tell you what company that was.
[48:29.960 --> 48:31.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then you can find out who the suckers are.
[48:32.000 --> 48:32.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's set it up wrong.
[48:33.080 --> 48:37.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: But basically, uh, I know AllNet has, has a case where you dial 1-0-0, what is it?
[48:37.900 --> 48:39.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: 1-0-4-4-4-4 Yeah, that's AllNet.
[48:39.960 --> 48:41.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then you get a dial tone that belongs to AllNet.
[48:41.980 --> 48:44.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the idea is you enter an authorization code of some sort.
[48:44.720 --> 48:45.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't just dial away.
[48:45.940 --> 48:47.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, see, that's what this was.
[48:47.140 --> 48:48.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was just dialing right through.
[48:48.520 --> 48:50.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was making free phone calls from it.
[48:50.400 --> 48:50.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[48:50.540 --> 48:51.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was very surprised.
[48:51.680 --> 48:51.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[48:52.340 --> 48:55.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, that, uh, that, that does happen occasionally.
[48:55.080 --> 48:57.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the only way you find out about it is by, uh, by experimenting.
[48:58.260 --> 48:58.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[48:58.520 --> 48:58.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[48:58.780 --> 48:59.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling.
[48:59.440 --> 49:02.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Very interesting, uh, interesting subjects here that, uh, that we brought up.
[49:03.280 --> 49:04.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, take another phone call.
[49:04.360 --> 49:04.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[49:04.700 --> 49:04.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[49:05.240 --> 49:08.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, uh, I got an interesting call of night from the telemarketing.
[49:08.880 --> 49:10.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: They offered me caller ID.
[49:10.680 --> 49:13.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: They said that they work for 9x, not with 9x.
[49:14.320 --> 49:20.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: And when I asked the guy what type of caller phone it was with a built-in-up caller ID, he had no idea what I was talking about.
[49:20.620 --> 49:21.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: How many lines do you have?
[49:21.920 --> 49:23.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: What kind of memory does it have?
[49:24.200 --> 49:24.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Very strange.
[49:25.080 --> 49:28.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he called me back a second time and said, oh, uh, everything is free.
[49:28.780 --> 49:29.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: The hookup is free.
[49:29.760 --> 49:32.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I told him, in my, in my area, the hookup is free too.
[49:32.720 --> 49:34.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just call up 9x and they hook up for free.
[49:34.720 --> 49:36.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Were they calling on behalf of 9x?
[49:36.740 --> 49:37.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: A representative.
[49:37.980 --> 49:40.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're representing 9x, but not 9x itself.
[49:41.100 --> 49:41.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[49:41.400 --> 49:46.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it sounds like 9x hired out to a bunch of, uh, telemarketers to make some calls and get people to sign up for caller ID.
[49:46.460 --> 49:50.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: They want to charge me $4.50 for a telephone with a built-in, um, caller ID box.
[49:51.220 --> 49:51.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[49:51.540 --> 49:55.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they are selling hardware now that has things like that built into it.
[49:56.120 --> 50:00.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, when I asked him what type of caller ID box was built in, he had no idea.
[50:00.720 --> 50:02.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't a 9x or AT&T phone.
[50:02.980 --> 50:04.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some off-brand name.
[50:04.720 --> 50:05.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[50:05.100 --> 50:06.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: He believes it was made in China.
[50:07.100 --> 50:07.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[50:07.300 --> 50:11.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they, they, they sell all kinds of, I mean, are there any 9x phones?
[50:11.320 --> 50:12.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you ever seen a 9x phone?
[50:12.560 --> 50:13.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, AT&T phone.
[50:13.640 --> 50:18.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, AT&T makes, makes home phones, but, and so does Southwestern Bell, but, uh, have you ever seen one from 9x?
[50:18.440 --> 50:21.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if 9x themselves actually has, uh, brand name phones.
[50:21.700 --> 50:22.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think they do.
[50:22.180 --> 50:23.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they, they must get it from someplace else.
[50:24.260 --> 50:24.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[50:24.420 --> 50:25.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: And yeah, China's a good bet.
[50:25.460 --> 50:27.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've seen 9x caller ID boxes.
[50:27.640 --> 50:28.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: That I've seen.
[50:28.420 --> 50:29.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: They say 9x.
[50:29.220 --> 50:29.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they say 9x.
[50:29.340 --> 50:30.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they're probably just stamping their name on it.
[50:30.920 --> 50:31.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: They stamp their names on it.
[50:31.760 --> 50:32.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, right.
[50:32.140 --> 50:32.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[50:32.620 --> 50:36.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, so you know anything about the, the, the, the phone cards they're selling in the stores, the $10 cards?
[50:36.800 --> 50:37.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: What about them?
[50:37.620 --> 50:41.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I purchased one recently, and the line is always busy.
[50:41.380 --> 50:43.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then I called up the number, the number in the back.
[50:44.000 --> 50:44.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: They gave me another number to dial.
[50:45.080 --> 50:46.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's also always busy.
[50:46.660 --> 50:49.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's, that's not a very good service then, is it?
[50:49.240 --> 50:50.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, it's a lousy service.
[50:50.500 --> 50:52.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: You pay 10 bucks for this thing, and then you can't make any phone calls with it.
[50:52.840 --> 50:53.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can't make no phone calls from it.
[50:53.920 --> 50:56.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then finally, I did, I managed to make a phone call.
[50:56.720 --> 51:01.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: It worked beautifully, but the next time I tried, the 800 number they give in the back was, was busy.
[51:01.600 --> 51:03.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the Spanish number they give in the back is also busy.
[51:03.980 --> 51:06.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, now, do they have a customer service number?
[51:06.840 --> 51:06.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[51:06.880 --> 51:07.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you call that one?
[51:07.800 --> 51:13.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: I called that, and the guy says, oh, since our rates are so low, well, I'll give you another number.
[51:13.940 --> 51:17.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: The circuits were overloaded with so many people calling up using our card.
[51:18.060 --> 51:23.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I would tell them that they might have to raise their rates to cover the lawsuits they're going to get from people that can't make phone calls.
[51:23.540 --> 51:25.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're a phone company that's supposed to allow people to do that.
[51:25.520 --> 51:29.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you're not satisfied, return to the store where you bought it, and they should refund your money.
[51:30.100 --> 51:31.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Return the unused portion.
[51:31.320 --> 51:31.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[51:31.880 --> 51:36.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like a store, like a 7-Eleven clerk is going to want to return money for a used phone card.
[51:36.200 --> 51:37.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go try that one out.
[51:38.180 --> 51:40.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's a fun thing to do on a Saturday night.
[51:40.520 --> 51:45.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, so on the cable, they sent out a, in the New York area, on the Brooklyn Cable, I believe, Cablevision.
[51:46.240 --> 51:49.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, they sent out a bullet recently, about a year ago.
[51:50.000 --> 51:51.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, the old bullet.
[51:52.040 --> 51:52.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: What?
[51:52.400 --> 51:53.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: The old bullet story.
[51:53.820 --> 51:54.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[51:54.540 --> 51:55.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've heard that story.
[51:55.740 --> 51:59.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the cheaper boxes were disabled, and the more expensive boxes were not disabled?
[51:59.860 --> 52:00.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie, you know anything about that?
[52:00.960 --> 52:04.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's not what they try to make it sound like.
[52:04.400 --> 52:09.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just a signal they sent down the line that instructed the box to go into a different mode.
[52:10.200 --> 52:15.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it only worked, it only affected those certain type of test chip in it.
[52:15.940 --> 52:23.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: If someone were just to unplug their box for a few hours and plugged it back in again, it would have reset it, and then it would have been no problem.
[52:23.940 --> 52:30.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: The way they caught people is that people would call the cable company as soon as they sent the so-called bullet or code down the line.
[52:31.300 --> 52:39.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: And everyone who called to complain that their cable just mysteriously went off, the phone company would add them to the list of people that they suspected were using one of these illicit boxes.
[52:39.900 --> 52:44.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: So it's just a trick that the cable companies are using.
[52:45.060 --> 52:47.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, why didn't it happen on the more expensive boxes?
[52:47.320 --> 52:50.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know a guy bought a box of $200, and one guy bought a box of $350.
[52:51.100 --> 52:53.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: The box they paid $350 for, no problem.
[52:53.680 --> 52:56.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: The cheaper box for the $200, he had the problem.
[52:56.880 --> 53:11.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Apparently the firmware chip that was in the cheaper box was the program that the cable company tried to exploit by sending a special code down the line to make it go into a different mode, preventing it from receiving anything.
[53:11.320 --> 53:16.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: They could have just as easily have sent a code to prevent the other type of box to do it as well.
[53:16.160 --> 53:25.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: But there's apparently several different versions of the firmware out there, and they're not aware of all of them or just wanted to address the most commonly used one, which is ostensibly the cheaper one.
[53:25.240 --> 53:38.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: So if your cable goes out mysteriously and you're using one of those bogus boxes, it would behoove you to unplug the box overnight and then plug it back in again and see if the problem goes away, rather than calling a cable company complaining and putting yourself away.
[53:39.680 --> 53:40.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, right.
[53:40.380 --> 53:42.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, thanks for the phone call.
[53:42.140 --> 53:42.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[53:42.680 --> 53:43.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Take care.
[53:43.420 --> 53:49.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was wondering if either Phiber or Bernie S., have you ever seen a channel on your cable?
[53:49.420 --> 53:50.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't show up in your cable box.
[53:51.000 --> 53:55.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: It shows up only when you have a cable-ready TV set, but it's like an oscilloscope.
[53:56.020 --> 53:57.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see that on my regular cable box.
[53:57.860 --> 53:57.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: You do?
[53:58.040 --> 53:58.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: What is that?
[53:59.220 --> 54:00.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I'm not sure.
[54:00.520 --> 54:01.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: An oscilloscope on TV.
[54:01.480 --> 54:03.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, great, but what purpose does it serve?
[54:03.700 --> 54:04.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nobody knows, huh?
[54:04.560 --> 54:05.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've never seen it myself.
[54:05.860 --> 54:06.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's quite a sight to behold.
[54:07.100 --> 54:08.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Does yours say something on it?
[54:08.400 --> 54:09.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mine says the number 12.
[54:09.860 --> 54:12.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I think it has number gauges on the screen.
[54:12.740 --> 54:12.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[54:13.160 --> 54:15.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it has some waveform on the screen.
[54:15.200 --> 54:15.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[54:15.780 --> 54:19.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, if anybody knows what that is, that's the mystery that's floating around this week.
[54:23.240 --> 54:24.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: But what does it mean?
[54:24.680 --> 54:24.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[54:24.980 --> 54:25.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It means something.
[54:25.660 --> 54:25.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[54:25.940 --> 54:26.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[54:26.600 --> 54:26.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[54:26.900 --> 54:27.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let me turn off the radio.
[54:28.100 --> 54:28.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[54:28.740 --> 54:29.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[54:29.380 --> 54:33.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just wanted to, um, ask for Bernie S.'s, uh, telephone number.
[54:33.740 --> 54:34.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, not telephone number.
[54:34.940 --> 54:35.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Excuse me.
[54:35.360 --> 54:35.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's correct.
[54:36.080 --> 54:36.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Real funny guy.
[54:36.460 --> 54:37.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Complete address.
[54:37.460 --> 54:37.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[54:37.700 --> 54:38.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll give it one more time.
[54:38.800 --> 54:39.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie, why don't you give it?
[54:39.620 --> 54:40.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[54:40.580 --> 54:42.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's, uh, Bucks County Prison.
[54:42.780 --> 54:43.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's D, this boy.
[54:44.280 --> 54:53.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bucks County Prison at 1730, and it's 1730 South Easton, E-A-S-T-O-N Road.
[54:53.460 --> 54:55.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's in Doylestown.
[54:55.240 --> 55:03.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: D-O-Y-L-E-S-T-O-W-N-P-A, Pennsylvania, 18901.
[55:03.100 --> 55:07.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you send me anything, um, first, only send me things that are reading material.
[55:07.880 --> 55:13.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you send me, uh, uh, a cake with a file in it, it will be, uh, rejected, and then I'll probably get a disciplinary write-up.
[55:13.960 --> 55:14.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: So don't do that.
[55:15.020 --> 55:24.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: But anything you want to send me, paperbacks, uh, magazines, photographs, uh, comics, anything to keep my mind occupied, because this place is excruciatingly boring, I'd really appreciate it.
[55:25.020 --> 55:30.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, write reading material on the outside of the envelope or bonds, because that way they won't, uh, think it's a bomb or something.
[55:30.160 --> 55:41.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, another thing, um, I found out that it's very easy for, uh, other people, uh, other than yourself, uh, to, um, get a, uh, credit card.
[55:41.640 --> 55:44.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: I get a telephone card from a major carrier.
[55:45.580 --> 55:56.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: About a month ago, uh, I got a call from, um, uh, the security department of, uh, one of the major, of Sprint, asking me if I, uh, took out a, uh, card.
[55:57.200 --> 56:08.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, when I said no, the guy said, well, someone took out a card with your name, your address, and, uh, he asked me for my social security number, which I told him.
[56:08.560 --> 56:12.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, he said, well, he, the person used another social security number.
[56:12.980 --> 56:15.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the guy got a card within two days.
[56:15.700 --> 56:16.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh...
[56:16.850 --> 56:18.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: I have no need for doing that.
[56:18.730 --> 56:23.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: I have a legitimate calling card, which, incidentally, doesn't work here, because I can only do zero-plus filing here.
[56:24.190 --> 56:26.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: It only does, uh, collect calls, but...
[56:26.110 --> 56:33.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, what I'm saying is that, uh, major carriers like Sprint, uh, AT&T have really bad security.
[56:34.070 --> 56:34.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: That, uh...
[56:34.810 --> 56:35.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's not too surprising.
[56:35.670 --> 56:44.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Almost anyone can, uh, call up, uh, and ask for a card, and, uh, they're, they're probably not going to ask for anything.
[56:44.450 --> 56:54.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: So what I had to do is I had to call up my, um, my, uh, my, uh, uh, my, uh, NYNEX and my, uh, long-distance carrier and have them switch back everything.
[56:54.670 --> 56:59.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then get a, uh, PIN number so that no one could touch my, uh, telephone.
[56:59.990 --> 57:07.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, uh, no, no one could call, uh, my local carrier and, uh, and ask for a credit card or, um, telephone card.
[57:07.950 --> 57:17.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: I would make a lot of noise and complain to a lot of people with that carrier that they were so lax in issuing a phone card in your name to another person without, uh, proper identifying information.
[57:17.970 --> 57:19.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because that, you know, that could be a liability for you.
[57:19.410 --> 57:21.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Eventually, you know, you're not going to have to pay for it.
[57:21.370 --> 57:23.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I didn't, I, I got a, I got a, I got a bill.
[57:23.770 --> 57:28.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, uh, after I got the bill, I got a second bill saying I had no liability at all.
[57:28.270 --> 57:32.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's still a hassle that they, that you shouldn't have had to be put through because of their negligence.
[57:32.550 --> 57:41.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, but it seems that, uh, the local carriers don't ask people for individual, uh, don't, don't, don't, don't ask people to create PIN numbers.
[57:42.730 --> 58:00.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that anybody can call up local carrier and, uh, use, uh, the same name and number as someone else and a different, uh, uh, a, uh, social security, a fake social security number and get a, um, long distance card.
[58:00.970 --> 58:02.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, I'm not too surprised.
[58:02.250 --> 58:02.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Are you, Emmanuel?
[58:03.710 --> 58:05.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm never surprised by anything like this.
[58:05.410 --> 58:07.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you know what I am surprised at is how quickly the time goes.
[58:08.290 --> 58:09.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the time is up now.
[58:09.990 --> 58:13.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we have to, uh, we have to pretty much call it a night for this week.
[58:13.970 --> 58:16.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, uh, thanks, uh, caller for, uh, for those interesting remarks.
[58:17.270 --> 58:21.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, Bernie, uh, I want to wish you the best of luck, uh, in, uh, in the week ahead.
[58:21.470 --> 58:22.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sure we'll talk to you again next week.
[58:23.030 --> 58:23.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thank you.
[58:23.410 --> 58:27.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: I want to thank everyone who's mailed me anything because it's, uh, it's immensely helpful.
[58:27.490 --> 58:29.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's, it's, it's, it's, it's painfully boring in here.
[58:30.230 --> 58:32.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, stultifying is, is definitely the word.
[58:32.130 --> 58:34.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we will be trying to visit you in the weeks ahead.
[58:34.530 --> 58:35.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, there is a visiting schedule.
[58:35.930 --> 58:41.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we'll try to, uh, get as many people down there as possible to, uh, help break things up as, as, as much as we can.
[58:42.670 --> 58:43.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[58:43.130 --> 58:45.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, again, everybody, please write to Bernie.
[58:45.290 --> 58:47.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, please, uh, keep, uh, abreast of the situation.
[58:47.750 --> 58:48.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Visit the website.
[58:48.850 --> 58:52.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, learn everything you can about the Secret Service, the people that, uh, that put him there.
[58:52.830 --> 58:55.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, www.2600.com.
[58:55.610 --> 58:59.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, you can mail your Secret Service stories to SecretS at 2600.
[59:00.030 --> 59:00.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: www.2600.com.
[59:01.670 --> 59:06.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you can mail Bernie S, Bernie S at 2600.com as well.
[59:06.470 --> 59:07.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: As well as the people on Off the Hook.
[59:07.850 --> 59:09.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: O-T-H at 2600.com.
[59:09.630 --> 59:11.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: All kinds of neat things you can do on the web.
[59:11.290 --> 59:14.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if you insist on not being on the Internet, uh, you can write to us.
[59:15.330 --> 59:18.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: W-B-A-I, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[59:20.430 --> 59:21.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Attention Off the Hook.
[59:22.350 --> 59:26.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's gonna just about do it for us here tonight.
[59:27.770 --> 59:28.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks again for listening.