Off The Hook - 1996-04-23

[00:32.040 --> 00:35.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a public service announcement.
[00:37.200 --> 00:38.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Whiskey time!
[00:39.780 --> 00:40.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Resist 96.
[00:41.260 --> 00:43.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Third National Conference of Refuse and Resist.
[00:43.580 --> 00:46.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: A National Assembly against the politics of cruelty.
[00:46.480 --> 00:47.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's all one attack.
[00:48.240 --> 00:51.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Saturday and Sunday, April 27th and 28th from 9 a.m.  to 6 p.m at City College of New York in Erano Hall.
[00:54.940 --> 01:09.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Come work with Darius James, Ramona Africa, Margarita Rosario, Brenda Joyner, La Resistencia, Center for Constitutional Rights, Gay, Lesbian, Straight, Teachers Network, 4-Win Student Association and many more.
[01:09.620 --> 01:12.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Come join us at the Courageous Resistor Awards.
[01:12.020 --> 01:16.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: A tribute to ordinary people who have resisted in extraordinary ways at 8 p.m.
[01:16.720 --> 01:18.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: at the Cathedral of St. John and Divine.
[01:18.460 --> 01:25.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's Saturday, April 27th with performances by Reggie Gaines, Danny Hawk and The Reconstructions.
[01:25.220 --> 01:31.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Register now and for information call us at Refuse and Resist at 212-713-5657.
[01:31.920 --> 01:35.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's 212-713-5657.
[01:36.380 --> 01:37.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Humiliation.
[01:37.180 --> 01:37.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Humiliation.
[01:38.640 --> 01:40.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you cross the fingers.
[01:41.180 --> 01:44.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Seized at the California-Mexico border in February.
[01:44.460 --> 01:51.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Four IFCO Friendshipmen Caravanistas transporting the aid are in the eighth week of a hunker fast protesting the seizures.
[01:52.220 --> 02:05.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Support them by calling President Clinton at 202-456-1111 or Treasury Secretary Rubin at 202-622-0190 and demand release of the computers.
[02:05.560 --> 02:10.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: For more information, call 212-926-5757.
[02:11.520 --> 02:16.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's 212-926-5757.
[02:23.020 --> 02:24.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:24.680 --> 02:29.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: The program is off the hook and you may notice that we don't have our theme music tonight.
[02:29.040 --> 02:33.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the reason for that is because there's a machine that has taken our theme music and will not release it to us.
[02:34.680 --> 02:37.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: The cart machine just keeps playing around, so it might come up on its own.
[02:38.140 --> 02:40.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's possible that the theme music might...
[02:40.800 --> 02:43.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's something else, but that has nothing to do with that.
[02:43.180 --> 02:44.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's another machine malfunctioning.
[02:46.040 --> 02:50.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's quite possible our theme music will just come up unannounced, but we can't take it out of the machine.
[02:50.540 --> 02:51.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: It will not let us have it.
[02:52.480 --> 02:53.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Never happened before.
[02:53.780 --> 02:54.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, yes, good evening.
[02:54.920 --> 02:58.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is off the hook without the theme music, but we do have other mood music.
[04:28.360 --> 04:35.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: But first, before we continue with anything else on Off The Hook tonight, it's time for another installation of Touchtown Fun.
[04:35.780 --> 04:39.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, Phiber, you were here, I believe, for the last episode of that.
[04:39.380 --> 04:39.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Touch-tone fun.
[04:40.080 --> 04:42.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Touch-tone fun is a whole lot of fun for the whole family.
[04:42.400 --> 04:47.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, you might want to gather around the radio now because we're going to reach out and touch something that probably doesn't want to be touched by us.
[04:48.280 --> 04:48.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[04:48.980 --> 04:51.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we're going to have a bit of fun with it.
[04:52.340 --> 04:52.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[04:53.520 --> 04:53.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Tonight...
[04:53.880 --> 04:56.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, last week, of course, we had our fun with MCI.
[04:57.440 --> 05:02.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: We found out they were not interested in getting long-distance service from us, even though they were very interested in selling it to us.
[05:03.380 --> 05:11.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Tonight, we kind of mess around a little bit with a new service that AT&T is offering.
[05:12.600 --> 05:16.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I can't really, for the life of me, understand what they have in mind for this kind of thing.
[05:17.340 --> 05:19.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if we can get a dial tone.
[05:19.780 --> 05:20.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Dial tone?
[05:20.760 --> 05:21.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[05:22.300 --> 05:23.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: What we're going to do...
[05:23.520 --> 05:28.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to reach out and call AT&T Customer Service.
[05:33.800 --> 05:38.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for calling the AT&T Account Servicing Center.
[05:38.460 --> 05:44.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you have a touch-tone phone and have questions about your AT&T bill, please press 1.
[05:45.060 --> 05:49.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: For questions about true reach savings or true rewards, press 2.
[05:50.200 --> 05:54.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you do not have a touch-tone phone, please hold for further assistance.
[05:54.760 --> 05:56.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we do have a touch-tone phone, so let's hit 1.
[06:04.140 --> 06:07.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: I see you're calling from 212.
[06:07.240 --> 06:07.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: 2...
[06:08.500 --> 06:09.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: 2...
[06:09.180 --> 06:09.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: 7...
[06:09.880 --> 06:10.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: 9...
[06:10.980 --> 06:11.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: 3...
[06:11.820 --> 06:12.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: 4...
[06:12.360 --> 06:12.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: 0...
[06:12.900 --> 06:13.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: 8...
[06:13.540 --> 06:16.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: If this is your home phone number, press 1.
[06:16.800 --> 06:17.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, it's 9.
[06:17.980 --> 06:18.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: If not, press 2.
[06:19.100 --> 06:21.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to press 2.
[06:22.260 --> 06:27.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Using your touch-tone keypad, please enter your home area code and phone number.
[06:28.380 --> 06:36.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I'm going to enter the phone number for 2600 Magazine, only because I don't want anybody else to be victimized.
[06:36.840 --> 06:37.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sorry about the static.
[06:37.700 --> 06:38.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[06:38.460 --> 06:39.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: You just told me...
[06:39.760 --> 06:40.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: 5...
[06:40.290 --> 06:40.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: 1...
[06:41.480 --> 06:41.820]  6...
[06:42.520 --> 06:42.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: 7...
[06:42.850 --> 06:43.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: 5...
[06:43.380 --> 06:44.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: 1...
[06:44.290 --> 06:45.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: 2...
[06:45.400 --> 06:45.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: 6...
[06:45.880 --> 06:46.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: 0...
[06:46.600 --> 06:47.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: 0...
[06:47.280 --> 06:49.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: If that's right, press 1.
[06:49.460 --> 06:50.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's correct.
[06:50.340 --> 06:50.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: If...
[06:51.330 --> 06:53.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please wait while we access your records.
[06:55.200 --> 07:00.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you're calling about AT&T long distance service or charges, press 1.
[07:01.400 --> 07:05.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Here are your 4 AT&T customer service choices.
[07:06.290 --> 07:09.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: For billing questions or problems, press 1.
[07:10.460 --> 07:12.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: For rates and dialing instructions, press 2.
[07:12.660 --> 07:13.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, that's what we want.
[07:14.220 --> 07:14.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Problems.
[07:14.780 --> 07:17.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please have your AT&T bill ready.
[07:17.260 --> 07:17.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: We got it.
[07:17.580 --> 07:18.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I can help you.
[07:18.400 --> 07:18.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, let's go.
[07:19.350 --> 07:23.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: If there's a call on your bill you don't recognize, press 1.
[07:23.790 --> 07:25.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I don't recognize this call.
[07:25.170 --> 07:27.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Please enter the area code and phone number of the call you don't recognize.
[07:28.260 --> 07:31.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, let's come up with a number, uh, 808.
[07:32.540 --> 07:34.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can I state, uh, 555?
[07:34.940 --> 07:36.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Like they do on TV?
[07:36.790 --> 07:39.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, 1, 2, 3, 4.
[07:40.080 --> 07:40.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[07:40.940 --> 07:47.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: The phone number you want me to check is 808-555.
[07:48.220 --> 07:50.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: 1, 2, 3, 4.
[07:50.660 --> 07:52.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: If that's right, press 1.
[07:53.120 --> 07:55.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please wait while we access your records.
[07:57.040 --> 07:59.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: We are still processing your request.
[07:59.780 --> 08:00.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please hold.
[08:00.600 --> 08:02.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm losing patience.
[08:02.420 --> 08:02.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.
[08:02.720 --> 08:09.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't find information on a call to 808-555.
[08:10.020 --> 08:11.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: 1, 2, 3, 4.
[08:12.230 --> 08:13.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I can help you with a credit.
[08:14.230 --> 08:17.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you'd like credit for this call, press 1.
[08:17.200 --> 08:18.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, yes, I'd like credit.
[08:18.520 --> 08:19.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: To check on an app.
[08:19.640 --> 08:24.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you're requesting a credit on your April bill, press 1.
[08:24.320 --> 08:24.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[08:25.560 --> 08:29.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter the amount you would like credited in dollars and cents.
[08:29.790 --> 08:30.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um...
[08:30.230 --> 08:30.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think?
[08:30.670 --> 08:35.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: For example, for $1.25, you'd need to press in...
[08:35.600 --> 08:36.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a lot.
[08:36.380 --> 08:36.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a lot of money.
[08:37.860 --> 08:39.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have to make this realistic.
[08:39.600 --> 08:42.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: So let's try 56 cents.
[08:46.560 --> 08:47.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[08:48.220 --> 08:52.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'd like a credit for 50, 6 cents.
[08:52.520 --> 08:54.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: If that's right, press 1.
[08:55.120 --> 08:56.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: If not, press 2.
[08:57.540 --> 08:59.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please wait while we access your records.
[09:01.700 --> 09:07.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, a credit, including tax, of 60 cents will be made to your account.
[09:08.100 --> 09:11.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: The credit will appear on your bill within 30 to 60 days.
[09:11.640 --> 09:14.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: You may subtract this amount from your next payment.
[09:14.680 --> 09:15.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is very interesting.
[09:15.520 --> 09:17.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you'd like help with something else, press 1.
[09:17.920 --> 09:20.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, you want to get credit for an outrageous amount to see what happens?
[09:21.120 --> 09:24.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Here are your four AT&T customer service choices.
[09:25.800 --> 09:28.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: For billing questions or problems...
[09:28.100 --> 09:34.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, by the way, AT&T does owe me about that amount of money for some unrelated things, but we'll get into that later.
[09:34.300 --> 09:37.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: If there's a call on your bill you don't recognize, press 1.
[09:38.300 --> 09:39.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: To get credit for a call...
[09:39.940 --> 09:42.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we can skip right ahead and get the credit right away.
[09:42.200 --> 09:46.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you're requesting a credit on your April bill, press 1.
[09:47.400 --> 09:49.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: If not, press 2.
[09:49.960 --> 09:51.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, yes, 1.
[09:52.100 --> 09:56.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter the amount you would like credited in dollars and cents.
[09:56.200 --> 09:57.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, um...
[09:57.220 --> 10:04.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: For example, for $1.25, you would need to press in 1, 2, 5.
[10:04.440 --> 10:07.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's do $651.25.
[10:07.220 --> 10:07.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[10:08.680 --> 10:13.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'd like a credit for $65.12.
[10:14.240 --> 10:15.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess they have a limit.
[10:15.040 --> 10:15.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: If that's right...
[10:15.720 --> 10:16.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Press 1.
[10:17.600 --> 10:18.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: If not...
[10:18.360 --> 10:18.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Press 2.
[10:18.800 --> 10:21.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, you see, I don't want that kind of credit, but let's see if it's that easy to get.
[10:22.280 --> 10:23.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'll uncredit myself.
[10:23.360 --> 10:24.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please wait while we access your records.
[10:24.660 --> 10:25.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: I promise I'll uncredit myself.
[10:25.620 --> 10:27.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: We are unable to process your request.
[10:28.240 --> 10:30.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please hold for an AT&T representative.
[10:30.480 --> 10:31.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no, anything but that, okay.
[10:32.480 --> 10:36.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, you see, the funny thing about this is I didn't have to answer any kind of verification whatsoever.
[10:36.680 --> 10:40.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: I can just go out and wantonly give anybody I want credit for all kinds of phone calls.
[10:40.960 --> 10:42.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, is that the most amazing thing?
[10:42.480 --> 10:44.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think AT&T just doesn't want to deal with people anymore.
[10:45.120 --> 10:49.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they're just willing to take the risk that, you know, we won't nickel and dime them to death.
[10:51.180 --> 10:53.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, we know that they have some sort of upper limit.
[10:54.440 --> 10:55.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, there's something else here, too.
[10:55.840 --> 10:58.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'd like to demonstrate this in a line that maybe doesn't have any static.
[10:58.400 --> 10:59.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, let's see if we can get one of those.
[11:03.370 --> 11:05.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, they do have your phone number when you call.
[11:05.600 --> 11:06.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: It mentions that fact.
[11:06.680 --> 11:09.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for calling the AT&T Account Servicing Center.
[11:10.440 --> 11:16.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you have a touch-tone phone and have questions about your AT&T bill, please press one.
[11:18.580 --> 11:19.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[11:26.690 --> 11:35.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: I see your calling from 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-0-5.
[11:35.890 --> 11:38.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: If this is your home phone number, press one.
[11:38.830 --> 11:40.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: It is not, we will press two.
[11:40.110 --> 11:41.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: If not, press two.
[11:41.670 --> 11:46.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Using your touch-tone keypad, please enter your home area code and phone number.
[11:48.230 --> 11:50.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, let's enter this number here.
[11:53.050 --> 11:55.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm trying to enter this number secretly, so...
[11:55.870 --> 11:56.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[11:56.870 --> 11:58.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: You just told me...
[11:58.110 --> 12:02.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, now we're going to have to approximate the time when she takes to say the number so I don't give that number out over the air.
[12:03.570 --> 12:05.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: And hit a one at the appropriate time.
[12:07.270 --> 12:07.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[12:09.170 --> 12:11.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please wait while we access your records.
[12:11.990 --> 12:13.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, what we're going to do this time...
[12:13.450 --> 12:15.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're calling about AT&T Long Beach...
[12:15.170 --> 12:16.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: ...is look up a number.
[12:16.230 --> 12:16.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Charges...
[12:16.670 --> 12:17.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's one.
[12:18.290 --> 12:20.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you're calling about your local services...
[12:21.750 --> 12:25.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Here are your four AT&T customer service choices.
[12:26.410 --> 12:29.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: For billing questions or problems, press one.
[12:30.870 --> 12:31.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: For rates and...
[12:31.990 --> 12:36.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please have your AT&T bill ready, so I can help you.
[12:36.930 --> 12:41.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: If there's a call on your bill you don't recognize, press one.
[12:41.790 --> 12:45.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter the area code and phone number of the call you don't recognize.
[12:45.690 --> 12:50.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I'm going to now enter a telephone number that I know I called.
[12:51.190 --> 12:53.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I know it belongs to somebody and it's listed.
[12:53.250 --> 12:53.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[12:53.830 --> 12:55.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: The phone number you want me to check...
[12:55.650 --> 12:57.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is not going to be played over the radio.
[12:57.690 --> 13:00.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: But we're just going to talk for a few seconds while it plays it out.
[13:00.570 --> 13:03.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Silently, hopefully, and then we'll press one at the appropriate time.
[13:03.310 --> 13:03.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Zero.
[13:03.790 --> 13:04.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: If that's right.
[13:04.990 --> 13:05.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Press one.
[13:05.710 --> 13:06.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Here we go.
[13:06.030 --> 13:09.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please wait while we access your records.
[13:11.310 --> 13:12.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: The phone number...
[13:12.850 --> 13:13.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Seven.
[13:14.270 --> 13:15.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we've got to keep that.
[13:16.850 --> 13:17.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[13:18.130 --> 13:18.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: One...
[13:18.770 --> 13:19.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Eight...
[13:19.630 --> 13:19.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Zero.
[13:20.330 --> 13:21.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Belongs to...
[13:21.610 --> 13:22.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sherman...
[13:22.570 --> 13:22.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Jerome.
[13:23.530 --> 13:25.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you recognize this call...
[13:25.650 --> 13:26.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Press one.
[13:26.750 --> 13:28.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I recognize that.
[13:28.430 --> 13:30.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you'd like to check another phone number on...
[13:30.590 --> 13:31.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, that's okay.
[13:31.310 --> 13:33.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: So now you can check people's phone numbers as well.
[13:34.270 --> 13:36.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: And hear that funny little voice giving out the information.
[13:38.110 --> 13:38.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's...
[13:39.350 --> 13:40.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's the question?
[13:40.170 --> 13:40.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ask the question to the microphone.
[13:41.270 --> 13:42.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: What if you didn't call them?
[13:42.750 --> 13:43.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you get it to check that anywhere?
[13:44.090 --> 13:44.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[13:44.430 --> 13:45.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you know the phone number exists.
[13:45.550 --> 13:49.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've experimented with this extensively and you cannot check a number that you did not call.
[13:49.570 --> 13:56.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Also, if you check a number that you called that's not a person, that's like a business, it doesn't show up either.
[13:56.410 --> 13:58.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: It seems to only be for residences that are listed.
[13:58.510 --> 14:01.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: So it's kind of a limited service, but it's a fun service, too.
[14:01.770 --> 14:09.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you know somebody, call somebody else, you can enter their phone number and find out what name it's listed under and try to translate what that voice says.
[14:10.050 --> 14:12.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: But more importantly, though, you can keep giving them credit.
[14:12.850 --> 14:15.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, even if they don't want any credit, there's nothing you can do to stop it.
[14:15.570 --> 14:18.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: People can be giving you credit all the time and you can't do anything about it.
[14:18.410 --> 14:20.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: At the very least, you could use it for ANI.
[14:21.350 --> 14:21.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's true.
[14:21.970 --> 14:23.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, we've actually...
[14:23.070 --> 14:24.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: We've demonstrated that before.
[14:25.230 --> 14:27.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, Phiber, I can go out and give you credit for...
[14:27.450 --> 14:27.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[14:28.110 --> 14:29.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: ...for lots of calls.
[14:29.990 --> 14:33.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's almost like the long-distance version of dialing 2-1-1 over and over again.
[14:33.830 --> 14:34.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess so.
[14:34.770 --> 14:34.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[14:35.130 --> 14:35.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[14:35.910 --> 14:38.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I'll be looking for that 56 cents on my phone bill.
[14:40.050 --> 14:42.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, AT&T owes us for quite a few calls.
[14:43.010 --> 14:45.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: We found out that Bernie S., who hopefully is on the phone here.
[14:45.690 --> 14:46.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if he is.
[14:46.490 --> 14:46.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[14:47.290 --> 14:49.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, no, that's not Bernie S., it's at Battletown.
[14:49.670 --> 14:51.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think Bernie S. is trying to reach us today.
[14:51.530 --> 14:54.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: We didn't hear from him last week, so hopefully we'll hear from him tonight.
[14:54.390 --> 14:59.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: It turns out that every single one of those phone calls that he makes to us, even if we don't pick up, we get billed for.
[15:00.310 --> 15:04.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: If an answering machine picks up, if it just rings and rings, it shows up.
[15:05.090 --> 15:08.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: I only got one day's worth of phone calls from him because that's the day that he moved to the new prison.
[15:10.090 --> 15:12.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: So we're going to have quite a fight with AT&T on our hands on that one.
[15:13.090 --> 15:14.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if he's there now.
[15:14.210 --> 15:14.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[15:15.470 --> 15:16.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: There he is.
[15:16.270 --> 15:17.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T has a collect call from...
[15:19.850 --> 15:22.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...at the Bucks County Correctional Opportunity.
[15:23.430 --> 15:25.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: To review this call, hang up.
[15:26.550 --> 15:32.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you accept this call, do not use three-way or call waiting teachers, or you will be disconnected.
[15:32.850 --> 15:35.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: To accept this call, dial one now.
[15:37.510 --> 15:38.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[15:40.710 --> 15:41.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello?
[15:41.650 --> 15:42.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello, Bernie S., how are you?
[15:43.150 --> 15:43.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm here.
[15:43.890 --> 15:44.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm hanging in here.
[15:45.230 --> 15:46.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, how is prison life tonight?
[15:48.930 --> 15:51.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: You see, every time we start talking to you, you get cut off for a second.
[15:51.750 --> 15:52.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know why that is, but...
[15:52.910 --> 15:54.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's me putting my hand over the mouthpiece.
[15:55.110 --> 16:00.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's so noisy here with all the other yelling and screams, and I've got to do that so I can hear what you're saying.
[16:00.470 --> 16:00.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[16:00.870 --> 16:02.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Tell me, do you ever yell and scream there yourself?
[16:03.350 --> 16:04.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I feel like it sometimes.
[16:04.750 --> 16:05.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you never do.
[16:05.850 --> 16:06.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: I restrain myself.
[16:07.710 --> 16:10.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're not like all the other prisoners that are always yelling and screaming about something.
[16:10.690 --> 16:11.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: We don't know what.
[16:11.270 --> 16:14.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: But when I was there visiting you a couple of weeks ago, they were yelling and screaming then, too.
[16:15.210 --> 16:16.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess what you do in prison, I don't know.
[16:17.030 --> 16:19.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess when you're here long enough, it becomes a volunteer.
[16:20.490 --> 16:20.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[16:21.230 --> 16:23.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, okay, now, we didn't hear from you last week.
[16:23.130 --> 16:31.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: We just mentioned that we're going to have a bit of a tussle with AT&T over the phone calls, because they seem to want to charge us every time you dial, instead of every time we accept the call.
[16:31.810 --> 16:33.290]  Yeah, I'm sure they make a lot of money doing that.
[16:33.290 --> 16:34.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: They'd probably make a fortune.
[16:34.650 --> 16:35.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's unbelievable.
[16:35.390 --> 16:42.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: But we just demonstrated a new system AT&T has, where you can call them up, and using automation, get yourself credit without ever talking to a person.
[16:43.170 --> 16:50.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Basically, you enter the amount of money you want for the phone number that presumably belongs to you, and they just grant you credit right there on the spot.
[16:50.630 --> 16:51.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[16:51.530 --> 16:51.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[16:52.170 --> 16:54.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd be interested in finding out how well that works.
[16:54.650 --> 16:59.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I haven't actually gotten a bill yet that has credit on it, based on that system.
[16:59.710 --> 17:02.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: I do know, though, that they have two different recordings when they grant you credit.
[17:02.830 --> 17:04.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: One says, all right, and the other says, okay.
[17:04.810 --> 17:07.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know why they alternate between the two.
[17:08.390 --> 17:11.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: But we tried getting credit for about 62 bucks, and that didn't fly.
[17:11.790 --> 17:14.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: They kind of wanted us to talk to a service representative.
[17:14.770 --> 17:16.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, well, good luck.
[17:16.430 --> 17:17.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wouldn't hold my breath.
[17:17.470 --> 17:20.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they also have a system where you can check the listings.
[17:20.950 --> 17:24.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can see what number somebody is listed to, if you call that number.
[17:25.130 --> 17:29.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, in other words, if the number shows up on your bill, you can enter the number, it'll tell you who it's registered to?
[17:29.610 --> 17:35.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: In most cases, usually, it seems to be when the person is listed, or when it's not a business.
[17:36.470 --> 17:36.870]  Hmm.
[17:37.210 --> 17:39.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: So if it fits those two criteria, then...
[17:39.750 --> 17:44.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it'd be interesting if you enter the numbers that you're billed for my calls to see who it comes back to.
[17:45.370 --> 17:45.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[17:46.190 --> 17:49.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, actually, I think I did enter your numbers, and it came up as they didn't know what it was.
[17:51.130 --> 17:52.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I don't know.
[17:52.530 --> 17:54.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: So anything you need to report on your end?
[17:54.650 --> 17:57.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, some semi-good news.
[17:57.730 --> 17:57.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[17:59.030 --> 18:08.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm still waiting for the Third Circuit Federal Court of Appeals to grant me an extension for filing changes to my appellant brief.
[18:09.770 --> 18:11.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: No response yet from them.
[18:11.670 --> 18:14.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: My attorney says that no news is good news.
[18:14.750 --> 18:18.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: But he said that there's maybe a 51% chance that it'll be approved.
[18:20.390 --> 18:35.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: He has that reservation because in the past he's filed a similar request that had them turned down for his trivial reason is that the cardboard cover of the brief was a slightly different color shade of blue on the back cover as it was on the front cover.
[18:35.990 --> 18:40.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the court rejected the appeal in its entirety on that ground.
[18:40.270 --> 18:43.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because the color was a different shade of blue, they rejected the appeal.
[18:44.050 --> 18:48.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can you maybe just explain that kind of logic that us humans aren't really accustomed to?
[18:53.290 --> 18:54.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: They've silenced him.
[18:54.610 --> 18:57.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: We missed everything you just said, so try that again.
[18:57.290 --> 19:05.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: I said I've given up trying to understand the rationale behind the criminal justice system in this country.
[19:05.150 --> 19:13.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Over the past year I've come to the conclusion that it's a strange cross between Alice in Wonderland and a Kafka tale.
[19:17.350 --> 19:22.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, anything else new in the world of prison?
[19:23.490 --> 19:28.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Theoretically, my earliest release date would be May 30th of this year.
[19:29.050 --> 19:30.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's still no word on that data.
[19:30.890 --> 19:33.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's really up to the Pennsylvania state parole board.
[19:33.810 --> 19:39.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: My sentence is six to 24 months for this misdemeanor violation.
[19:39.210 --> 19:45.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: It should make me eligible for release on May 30th, but there's some possible problems to prevent that.
[19:45.710 --> 20:01.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: The first being that the sentence was to include 41 days of credit for time I'd spent last year in Delaware County Prison, Pennsylvania, for the initial charge, which was then later dropped, which was then picked up by the taker's service.
[20:01.470 --> 20:07.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that still hasn't been applied to my inmate account yet, apparently.
[20:07.850 --> 20:11.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: They still show my minimum release date to be sometime in July.
[20:12.150 --> 20:14.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they're still trying to get that straightened out.
[20:14.630 --> 20:17.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's very frustrating battling the bureaucracy to get that done.
[20:18.090 --> 20:37.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: The other problem is that even though virtually all nonviolent offenders have traditionally been released on their minimum parole date to make room for violent offenders, in my case, any interference or pressure from the secret service could continue to appear until November of 1997.
[20:38.390 --> 20:49.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you remember, they successfully used that intimidation tactics earlier this year by implying I was somehow dangerous because of the kinds of books that I read and electronic equipment I had in my home.
[20:49.410 --> 20:56.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that resulted in a six to 24 month sentence for something the state guidelines recommended a zero to three month sentence for.
[20:58.230 --> 21:01.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I know we've talked about this many weeks.
[21:01.570 --> 21:03.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And for you, the hell just keeps going on.
[21:05.290 --> 21:07.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hopefully, you're getting a lot of mail, I hope, from our listeners.
[21:07.670 --> 21:07.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am.
[21:08.050 --> 21:10.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to thank everybody who sent me things.
[21:10.390 --> 21:17.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been remiss the past couple of weeks I've been working on this federal appeal and have not had as much time as I wanted to reply to everybody who's written me.
[21:17.570 --> 21:20.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I am in the process of doing that now.
[21:20.670 --> 21:22.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, everybody who's out there is waiting.
[21:22.610 --> 21:23.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Please be patient.
[21:23.430 --> 21:24.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: I will get back to you.
[21:24.530 --> 21:28.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, everyone, for sending me the books, the magazines, the cards, letters.
[21:29.530 --> 21:31.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everything has been a tremendous amount of help.
[21:31.730 --> 21:38.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't imagine what it's like being in a cage 24 hours a day and having very little contact with the outside world.
[21:38.450 --> 21:42.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: And to get any piece of mail is a big help, believe me.
[21:43.570 --> 21:47.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, and the address, there's two addresses you can send mail to Bernie S.
[21:47.090 --> 21:48.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: One is through the Internet.
[21:48.890 --> 21:50.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: And a few people have asked this.
[21:50.550 --> 21:51.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: How does Bernie S.
[21:51.570 --> 21:52.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: reply over the Internet?
[21:52.410 --> 21:53.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you see, Bernie S.
[21:53.630 --> 21:54.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: does not have Internet access.
[21:54.750 --> 21:57.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: What we do is we print it out and send it to him.
[21:57.050 --> 22:01.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, if you include an email address as a return address, it's virtually worthless.
[22:01.410 --> 22:03.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: However, if you include a real address, Bernie S.
[22:03.910 --> 22:07.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: will write to you as we will forward him pieces of paper with that mail on it.
[22:07.310 --> 22:11.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: The address is Bernie, S-B-E-R-N-I-E-S, at 2600.com.
[22:12.110 --> 22:13.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's 2600.com.
[22:14.350 --> 22:18.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you also have a real mail address, which I guess you should give out, Bernie.
[22:18.790 --> 22:20.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, people can hear me all right.
[22:20.270 --> 22:45.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's Ed Cummings, my real name, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, and it's to Bucs, that's B as in boy, Bucs County Prison, at 1730 South Easton Road, that's E-A-S-T-O-N, number D13, D as in dog, that's my cell number D13.
[22:45.530 --> 22:56.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's in Doylestown, D as in dog, O-Y-L-E-S-T-O-W-N-T-A, and the zip code is 18901.
[22:57.070 --> 23:00.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyone sending me anything, it has to be just written materials.
[23:00.150 --> 23:05.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can't send me any food or, like, cakes with files in them or anything like that.
[23:05.310 --> 23:10.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: No weapon, nothing, no saws, nothing like that, just written materials.
[23:10.970 --> 23:13.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it must say on the envelope, reading materials.
[23:14.070 --> 23:17.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: If it doesn't say that, they'll reject it, thinking that it might be something else.
[23:17.490 --> 23:23.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Also, any books or magazines, the number of books or magazines cannot exceed five in the same package.
[23:24.030 --> 23:29.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, people have sent me, like, a box of 20 magazines, and they won't let me have any of them because it exceeded five.
[23:29.690 --> 23:34.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, whoever sent them, thank you, but I won't get them unless you send five or less at a time.
[23:35.370 --> 23:38.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, that's just one of many bureaucratic things that you have to deal with.
[23:39.390 --> 23:41.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, Bernie, you're going to stay with us, hopefully, for the hour.
[23:42.130 --> 23:46.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, I have a couple of amusing antidotes for this place if there's time, but go ahead and take some calls.
[23:46.150 --> 23:52.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we're going to be talking a lot about the proposed merger between Bell Atlantic and NYNEX.
[23:53.150 --> 23:54.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have some information on that.
[23:54.610 --> 23:56.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Also, the new issue of 2600 is out.
[23:58.010 --> 24:01.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not much really we can say about it, except that we tried to make it as timely as possible.
[24:02.750 --> 24:04.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll just have to leave it at that for now.
[24:06.550 --> 24:08.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: It is kind of late, though, I'll say that.
[24:09.470 --> 24:13.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, Phiber, you've got some information for us on this merger.
[24:14.010 --> 24:19.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, we talked about this several weeks ago, maybe even a few months ago, about Atlantic and NYNEX looking to merge.
[24:19.870 --> 24:21.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: And there was a proposal then.
[24:21.610 --> 24:24.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's still really a proposal now because it's not written in stone.
[24:24.350 --> 24:25.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's got to be approved by all these states.
[24:26.010 --> 24:27.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's got to be approved by the feds.
[24:27.530 --> 24:31.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, the communication workers are not too happy with the prospect of losing 30,000 jobs.
[24:32.010 --> 24:32.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[24:32.310 --> 24:35.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, with all that going on, I don't know if this is ever going to happen.
[24:35.910 --> 24:41.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: If it does happen, though, we here in New York will be writing our checks to Bell Atlantic, not NYNEX.
[24:41.750 --> 24:43.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: There will be no more NYNEX.
[24:43.350 --> 24:45.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: First, no more New York telephone, then no more NYNEX.
[24:45.910 --> 24:47.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, Bell, I mean, what's going on here?
[24:47.730 --> 24:52.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the name Bell Atlantic is still technically correct because we are considered Eastern Seaboard.
[24:53.210 --> 24:55.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I have no problem with the name.
[24:55.690 --> 25:01.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: What I have a problem with is this huge company, you know, being built by linking two other huge companies together.
[25:01.870 --> 25:05.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it just seems like the old Bell system is just piecing itself back.
[25:05.850 --> 25:08.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, it's reforming like that thing in Terminator 2, you know.
[25:09.090 --> 25:09.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's Skynet.
[25:09.710 --> 25:11.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it's basically on.
[25:11.110 --> 25:12.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: You shoot it and then it, like, comes back together again.
[25:12.950 --> 25:15.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it's gonna realize its own existence in another couple of years.
[25:16.070 --> 25:17.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think it's realized its own existence.
[25:17.990 --> 25:19.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think it's beyond that right now.
[25:19.730 --> 25:20.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, so what does this mean to us?
[25:21.050 --> 25:28.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, so far, really, all that's been done is that the chairman of both NYNEX and Bell Atlantic have agreed to the merger.
[25:29.390 --> 25:41.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like you said, nothing else like the actual... it has to be... I guess it has to be passed by the respective public utilities commissions and public service commissions and so on before it's actually finalized.
[25:43.150 --> 25:49.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I heard the latest, which I think you heard as well, is that MCI was challenging the merger.
[25:49.710 --> 25:52.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: MCI is challenging... I also heard NYNEX today wants to go into the...
[25:52.510 --> 25:53.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Long distance.
[25:53.330 --> 25:53.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Long distance.
[25:53.710 --> 25:55.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, if they're not going to exist anymore, how can they do that?
[25:56.810 --> 25:59.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe they'll exist under that name only for long distance.
[25:59.350 --> 26:00.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: It would be kind of strange.
[26:01.110 --> 26:01.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hmm.
[26:01.830 --> 26:05.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, this is 3,000 administrative jobs that are scheduled to be cut.
[26:05.410 --> 26:06.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that what we're told?
[26:06.190 --> 26:07.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that's what they say.
[26:08.150 --> 26:10.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Experts are saying up to 30,000 total jobs.
[26:10.170 --> 26:22.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, the union workers, the people from the CWA, Communication Workers of America, are saying that they fear there's going to be tens of thousands of jobs cut because when the two companies merge, there's simply going to be a lot of redundant jobs left over.
[26:23.170 --> 26:27.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because you don't need two different people in two different places doing the exact same thing.
[26:27.210 --> 26:32.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: And both companies have been engaged in quite a bit of downsizing over the past couple of years.
[26:32.750 --> 26:34.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, already, they've lost quite a few jobs.
[26:35.410 --> 26:38.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And now, even more, once they merge these two companies.
[26:38.690 --> 26:43.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're going to be serving 36 million residential and business customers all the way from Maine to Virginia.
[26:43.830 --> 26:44.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, 13 states.
[26:45.190 --> 26:45.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a lot.
[26:46.190 --> 26:47.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's quite a bit.
[26:49.230 --> 26:50.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, let's see.
[26:50.430 --> 26:55.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, now, according to this here, NYNEX employed 94,000 people in 1990.
[26:55.810 --> 26:58.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now they have 66,000.
[26:58.490 --> 27:00.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's practically 30,000 jobs right there they cut.
[27:00.950 --> 27:04.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: And Bell Atlantic, in the meantime, has cut its workforce from 82,000 to 62,000.
[27:04.990 --> 27:06.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's 20,000 more.
[27:06.390 --> 27:08.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, practically 50,000 jobs already have been lost.
[27:08.590 --> 27:11.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And now, we're talking about possibly another 30,000.
[27:11.070 --> 27:14.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I've known that many people worked in the phone industry in the first place.
[27:16.930 --> 27:17.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's...
[27:17.290 --> 27:17.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[27:18.010 --> 27:18.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: What do you think about this?
[27:19.050 --> 27:20.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is this a good move, a bad move?
[27:20.530 --> 27:25.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll be opening up our phone lines to listeners if they want to comment on this, if they're affected by it in any way.
[27:25.570 --> 27:27.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212, 279, 3400.
[27:27.330 --> 27:30.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it might be a good move for them from a business standpoint.
[27:30.970 --> 27:34.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: But for us, personally, I'm worried about what's going to happen to our ISDN rates.
[27:35.350 --> 27:38.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because the ISDN is more expensive in Bell Atlantic than it is in NYNEX. 
[27:38.430 --> 27:41.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Already, it's not a good deal here in NYNEX land.
[27:41.450 --> 27:44.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because they don't offer flat rate like other RBOCs do.
[27:44.510 --> 27:44.790]  Right.
[27:44.790 --> 27:46.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's something we've been trying to get them to do.
[27:47.030 --> 27:57.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, if Bell Atlantic moves in and they have already a rate five times as much as our rates here, then that's going to make it a little bit more difficult to bargain for something that's acceptable to us.
[27:58.510 --> 28:11.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's all kinds of other conflicts as far as billing practices and ways of customers getting a better deal, which I think will be made a lot harder by having this huge monolithic company.
[28:11.270 --> 28:14.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: For one thing, Bell Atlantic was in a position to compete with NYNEX.
[28:14.970 --> 28:17.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, and that would sort of drive down the rates, maybe.
[28:18.070 --> 28:21.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, the reason why NYNEX is offering these new calling plans is because of competition.
[28:21.810 --> 28:22.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: No other reason.
[28:22.310 --> 28:23.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Otherwise, it would have done it years ago.
[28:24.030 --> 28:27.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, now Bell Atlantic won't be competing because they'll be the same company.
[28:27.730 --> 28:29.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I don't see how that could be good for us.
[28:29.710 --> 28:35.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I keep hearing, oh, yeah, cable TV, they're going to have all these services, Internet access, wires going into your house, everywhere.
[28:36.070 --> 28:37.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's like, yeah, so what?
[28:37.450 --> 28:39.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, what exactly are we talking about here?
[28:39.630 --> 28:42.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, we don't need 5,000 channels of garbage.
[28:42.450 --> 28:53.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, if nothing else, Bell Atlantic has the advantage of always offering the newest custom calling features first, simply because Bell Labs and Bell Corp are both in Bell Atlantic territory.
[28:54.430 --> 28:59.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, if there's going to be a regional Bell that's going to get those services first and test them first, it's going to be Bell Atlantic.
[28:59.750 --> 29:02.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I mean, you can see how thrilled I am by that.
[29:03.070 --> 29:15.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: But apart from my, you know, joy at knowing that we're going to get, what, custom calling double reject or whatever they come up with next, you know, to counter a phone call that's made illicitly to you by somebody who dialed the wrong number.
[29:16.810 --> 29:20.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know, you know, what kind of custom services could possibly justify it?
[29:20.810 --> 29:24.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, just bear in mind now that we're going to be part of the Bell Atlantic Intelligent Network.
[29:25.730 --> 29:26.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[29:26.490 --> 29:26.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[29:26.850 --> 29:27.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what exactly does that mean?
[29:29.470 --> 29:31.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: All manner of things are possible.
[29:31.670 --> 29:31.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[29:33.130 --> 29:34.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie S., what do you make of all this?
[29:34.830 --> 29:35.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have you heard anything?
[29:35.550 --> 29:36.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's pretty interesting.
[29:36.790 --> 29:42.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think their business strategy has tried to eliminate the possibility of much competition.
[29:42.730 --> 29:49.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: The larger the entity, the business entity is, the deeper the pockets they're going to have to fight off competitors.
[29:49.390 --> 29:52.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've worked for both Bell Atlantic and NYNEX in the past.
[29:53.730 --> 29:58.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Frankly, NYNEX seem to be a little more poorly managed than Bell Atlantic.
[29:58.290 --> 30:01.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: So this could be a good thing from the standpoint of how well they're managed.
[30:01.950 --> 30:04.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think for the consumer, this is a bad thing.
[30:05.090 --> 30:08.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Already this year, we've had two major Bell Operating Company mergers.
[30:08.710 --> 30:11.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: The SPC merged with the Pacific Telesis back down.
[30:12.690 --> 30:16.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: So we started this year with seven regional Bell Operating companies.
[30:16.650 --> 30:17.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now we're down to five.
[30:18.370 --> 30:20.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't know whether it's going to end.
[30:20.250 --> 30:26.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I can see us in the next couple of years being down to maybe two or three with even less competition going on.
[30:26.390 --> 30:32.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's less than five if you count the proposed merger between the Pacific Telesis and Southwestern...
[30:32.590 --> 30:33.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: That makes it five.
[30:33.430 --> 30:34.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, that makes it five.
[30:34.130 --> 30:34.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: That makes it five, yeah.
[30:35.770 --> 30:36.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: How does it make it five?
[30:38.570 --> 30:38.930]  Um...
[30:39.770 --> 30:40.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Pacific Telesis...
[30:40.490 --> 30:41.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: How many do you have to start with?
[30:41.510 --> 30:41.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Seven.
[30:41.970 --> 30:42.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it's seven.
[30:42.630 --> 30:44.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: So if two become...
[30:44.330 --> 30:45.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, you lose two.
[30:45.890 --> 30:46.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hold on.
[30:46.270 --> 30:48.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: My arithmetic's maybe a little bit rusty here.
[30:48.330 --> 30:48.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[30:49.330 --> 30:49.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Seven...
[30:49.690 --> 30:50.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I guess it becomes five.
[30:51.270 --> 30:51.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[30:52.470 --> 30:53.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, yeah, it becomes five.
[30:54.150 --> 30:58.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, but we're slowly losing our box.
[30:58.610 --> 31:00.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're turning into big monolithic national companies.
[31:01.490 --> 31:01.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.
[31:02.710 --> 31:04.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, so that would leave...
[31:04.130 --> 31:06.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's say this is called Bell Atlantic.
[31:06.130 --> 31:08.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's say the other one is called SBC.
[31:08.670 --> 31:09.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: SBC it would be.
[31:09.630 --> 31:11.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, and that leaves Ameritech.
[31:11.330 --> 31:11.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yep.
[31:11.830 --> 31:12.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that leaves...
[31:12.530 --> 31:12.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: U.S.
[31:13.110 --> 31:13.110]  West.
[31:13.210 --> 31:13.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: U.S.
[31:13.870 --> 31:13.870]  West.
[31:13.950 --> 31:14.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: And Bell South.
[31:14.890 --> 31:15.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bell South.
[31:16.630 --> 31:18.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, let's take some phone calls.
[31:18.850 --> 31:21.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
[31:22.430 --> 31:26.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we're talking about the merger between Bell Atlantic and NYNEX. 
[31:26.550 --> 31:27.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: How it will affect consumers.
[31:28.630 --> 31:31.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: And whether or not it will be a good deal for us.
[31:32.090 --> 31:34.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Whether it will be a good deal for the communication workers.
[31:34.910 --> 31:36.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what it will mean for technology.
[31:38.290 --> 31:38.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[31:38.930 --> 31:39.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[31:42.480 --> 31:43.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, good evening.
[31:43.620 --> 31:44.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[31:44.560 --> 31:44.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.
[31:45.100 --> 31:45.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, go ahead.
[31:45.920 --> 31:46.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi.
[31:47.000 --> 31:48.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have several points.
[31:48.120 --> 31:52.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: First, the call you made earlier to AT&T on credit.
[31:53.060 --> 31:53.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yes.
[31:54.540 --> 31:57.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think MCI has a similar system.
[31:57.800 --> 31:58.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do they?
[31:58.800 --> 31:59.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[31:59.680 --> 32:00.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Will you describe it to us?
[32:00.620 --> 32:07.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you dial a, uh, 800-888-7737 number.
[32:07.780 --> 32:09.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then punch in your phone number.
[32:10.160 --> 32:12.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there's several, uh, options.
[32:13.340 --> 32:16.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can, uh, whatever you want.
[32:16.300 --> 32:20.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Credit, uh, uh, you know, a copy of bill, whatever.
[32:20.740 --> 32:23.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, you do whatever you can.
[32:24.100 --> 32:26.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is there any kind of verification as to who you really are?
[32:27.340 --> 32:28.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, no.
[32:28.720 --> 32:32.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just punch in your, uh, zip number, or zip code.
[32:32.960 --> 32:33.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Your zip code.
[32:33.720 --> 32:34.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the verification.
[32:34.380 --> 32:36.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: So if you have someone's phone number, there's no way you're gonna get their zip code.
[32:37.500 --> 32:47.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, what you do is you punch in the phone number and then a zip code and, uh, you can find out virtually, because I've done it, uh, other people's, um, you know, info.
[32:48.700 --> 32:49.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: No kidding.
[32:49.620 --> 32:50.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: And stuff like that.
[32:50.440 --> 32:52.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can, it'll actually give you information on their bill.
[32:52.660 --> 32:53.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[32:53.340 --> 32:54.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Like, uh, what kind of information?
[32:54.580 --> 32:54.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: How much?
[32:54.940 --> 32:59.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, basically how much it is and how much has been paid, if it's, if anything's due.
[32:59.960 --> 33:08.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: You see, uh, NYNEX just went through that, with that 1-800-698 number that they have, where they were giving out information about your bill, how much you owed, when your last payment was.
[33:08.620 --> 33:15.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Things that, you know, I remember we called CBS, and we discovered that they were, they were way behind in their phone bill, and they owed something like $6,000.
[33:16.620 --> 33:20.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, shortly thereafter, they, they turned that off, because I guess somebody was angry about it.
[33:20.920 --> 33:21.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which company did this?
[33:22.000 --> 33:22.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, that was NYNEX, didn't they?
[33:23.020 --> 33:23.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, New York.
[33:23.700 --> 33:27.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, so you would think that these companies would talk to each other and, and learn from their stupidity.
[33:27.940 --> 33:30.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they also have a similar system in Jersey, Bell Lanik.
[33:31.200 --> 33:31.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[33:31.780 --> 33:32.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bell Lanik does the same thing.
[33:32.760 --> 33:34.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I guess stupidity is, is worldwide.
[33:34.660 --> 33:35.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, Ameritech does the same thing, too.
[33:35.960 --> 33:36.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[33:36.880 --> 33:45.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, also, on the calls that appear, uh, you know, even if you don't answer the phone, uh, that happens here also.
[33:45.480 --> 33:49.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I call people, they are not home, and, uh, I always get billed for it.
[33:50.960 --> 33:51.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, that...
[33:51.920 --> 33:53.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, okay, but are you calling collect?
[33:54.020 --> 33:56.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, it's, it's a widespread, widespread practice.
[33:56.760 --> 33:59.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, if I call anybody, and they're not home, I still get charged.
[33:59.700 --> 34:06.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, you see, uh, the collect thing is, implies, you know, some sort of a, um, permission being granted to start the billing.
[34:06.220 --> 34:12.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, Bernie, you left a message on my machine yesterday, and, you know, I wasn't home, yet somehow you were able to leave a message on my machine calling collect.
[34:12.980 --> 34:13.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: How did you do that?
[34:14.020 --> 34:14.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not really sure.
[34:15.080 --> 34:21.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I thought perhaps you had recorded a touch-tone, too, on your outgoing message, which is what you have to press to, to accept the collect call.
[34:21.700 --> 34:27.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: But for some reason, the call was just collected, uh, without any true authorization by you or anyone.
[34:27.820 --> 34:31.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, I don't know, I would contest, uh, contest the charge for that call.
[34:31.900 --> 34:32.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I will.
[34:32.920 --> 34:33.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I will.
[34:33.140 --> 34:49.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let me tell you, I've called the phone company on several occasions, uh, you know, to contest my bill on calls that I, you know, they haven't picked up, and, uh, they insist that someone answered that there's an entry machine, that, uh, you know, that there was a connection made.
[34:50.940 --> 34:52.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I was charged for the call.
[34:53.280 --> 34:53.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[34:53.580 --> 34:54.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: I had no choice.
[34:54.880 --> 34:55.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, you would, you would think.
[34:55.900 --> 34:58.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, that's, that's, that's just bogus that they would do that.
[34:58.300 --> 35:02.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, you would think, though, that AT&T would, uh, have a better system in place.
[35:02.300 --> 35:06.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, we've, we've been to a lot of prisons now in the past year, actually, County Fiber the past two years.
[35:07.100 --> 35:11.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, um, you know, they tend to know when you accept the call and when you don't accept the call.
[35:11.660 --> 35:13.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: AT&T would expect to have a little bit more experience.
[35:23.880 --> 35:24.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[35:24.320 --> 35:29.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[35:32.140 --> 35:33.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[35:36.240 --> 35:40.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I, I don't really see how the rates can go down when something merges like this.
[35:40.340 --> 35:45.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, look, I just, I don't see where the impetus is for them to, to lower rates.
[35:45.600 --> 35:52.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's no, there's not gonna be, uh, anything, uh, anything remotely resembling competition on that scale.
[35:52.820 --> 35:57.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, something that covers all these states and, and can do things like, uh, the Atlantic will be able to do.
[35:57.640 --> 35:57.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[35:58.120 --> 36:02.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, okay, uh, should we count, uh, your, your call as a vote against the merger?
[36:02.460 --> 36:02.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Again.
[36:02.900 --> 36:03.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[36:03.440 --> 36:04.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Definitely again.
[36:04.040 --> 36:05.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: So we have one vote against.
[36:05.660 --> 36:05.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[36:06.020 --> 36:06.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for calling.
[36:06.560 --> 36:06.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bye.
[36:08.180 --> 36:11.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think if they're smart, they should, uh, listen to what WBAI listeners have to say.
[36:12.040 --> 36:14.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because, uh, as Jerry Brown says, we are the people.
[36:15.020 --> 36:15.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, he doesn't say that.
[36:15.940 --> 36:16.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: We the people, or whatever.
[36:17.060 --> 36:20.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, uh, we, uh, we, we have a voice of some sort.
[36:20.220 --> 36:20.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie, what do you think?
[36:20.860 --> 36:22.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you think this merger should go through or not?
[36:23.060 --> 36:23.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I don't.
[36:23.900 --> 36:31.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I think that we should have this, this still small number of, small amount of competition that we had with this set in our box.
[36:31.360 --> 36:35.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, the less, the less companies there are, obviously there should be less competition.
[36:35.720 --> 36:38.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I, I don't see how this could possibly be good to the consumer.
[36:39.360 --> 36:39.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[36:40.200 --> 36:40.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[36:40.540 --> 36:42.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you don't count though, because, uh, you're not a caller.
[36:43.080 --> 36:45.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, so we have to, we have to take votes from the callers.
[36:45.380 --> 36:46.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I agree with you.
[36:46.760 --> 36:47.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I called in.
[36:47.780 --> 36:48.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[36:48.240 --> 36:48.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: You did.
[36:48.620 --> 36:48.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: You did.
[36:49.060 --> 36:50.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, uh, technically you're not a caller.
[36:50.440 --> 36:51.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Technically you're, you're like a...
[36:51.700 --> 36:53.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can I call back and vote against the merger?
[36:54.420 --> 36:56.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, yeah, I guess, I guess technically you could do that.
[36:57.220 --> 36:59.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: But let's, uh, let's see what our WBAI listeners have to say.
[36:59.360 --> 36:59.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[36:59.700 --> 36:59.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[37:01.080 --> 37:01.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[37:02.360 --> 37:03.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, Bernie, are you still there?
[37:03.380 --> 37:03.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am.
[37:04.160 --> 37:08.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I'm, I'm happy you survived the dial tone, because that, that sometimes cuts you off.
[37:08.420 --> 37:08.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[37:08.980 --> 37:09.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[37:10.200 --> 37:10.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello.
[37:10.760 --> 37:11.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, go ahead.
[37:11.520 --> 37:11.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, hi.
[37:12.040 --> 37:14.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is Sandra from New Jersey.
[37:14.420 --> 37:18.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, I'm calling to say that I'm against the, uh, the merger.
[37:19.100 --> 37:19.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[37:19.360 --> 37:25.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: Simply because I believe that NYNEX has got horrible service, Bell Atlantic's got horrible service, and, uh, the two combined.
[37:25.960 --> 37:27.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: You're gonna get no service whatsoever.
[37:27.700 --> 37:30.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I heard, I heard Bell Atlantic had better service than NYNEX.
[37:30.380 --> 37:31.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: NYNEX had lousy service.
[37:31.760 --> 37:36.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bell Atlantic, uh, was, was a little better as far as the service providing, uh, goes.
[37:37.200 --> 37:41.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: NYNEX's strength, though, was in providing corporate customers because they have New York City to deal with.
[37:41.240 --> 37:41.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's true.
[37:41.660 --> 37:45.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although there's a lot of corporate customers I think that would, uh, take umbrage of that, but...
[37:45.120 --> 37:48.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you have a corporate account with NYNEX, you're all set.
[37:48.320 --> 37:53.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: But if you have a residential account with, uh, New Jersey like I do, it's ridiculous.
[37:53.600 --> 37:54.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: You can't get anything.
[37:54.260 --> 37:54.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: You can't get service.
[37:54.920 --> 37:56.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: You can't get another line in, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[37:56.780 --> 38:00.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: But, uh, the real reason why I called is, uh, the following.
[38:01.260 --> 38:07.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, I'm having a dispute with my ISP over some activities that took place with my account.
[38:07.720 --> 38:08.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[38:08.020 --> 38:10.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, um, I just want to run it by you.
[38:10.600 --> 38:11.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I find it quite amusing myself.
[38:12.500 --> 38:23.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, basically what happened two weeks ago was that I got a, uh, voicemail saying that my account had been, uh, terminated on their system, uh, because of hacking activities, right?
[38:24.200 --> 38:29.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, uh, I called them up and I said, you know, can you explain to me what hacking activities are?
[38:29.300 --> 38:34.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: And the tech guy I was talking to hemmed and hawed and went back and forth for like 20 minutes.
[38:34.460 --> 38:44.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: And finally he goes, well, uh, remote domain contacted us and said that they were being probed from the outside and they traced it back to the intact, uh, domain.
[38:45.120 --> 38:47.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: And we in turn traced it back to your account.
[38:47.840 --> 38:49.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I said, well, what's a probe?
[38:50.200 --> 38:51.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: And he wouldn't tell me.
[38:51.600 --> 38:52.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: He wouldn't tell me.
[38:52.080 --> 38:52.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: And finally I got out of him.
[38:53.140 --> 39:01.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: He said that it was an RPC info dash P command, which, uh, if you're familiar with that, just list ports and what's running on the ports, right?
[39:02.440 --> 39:06.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, uh, he said that constituted hacking activity.
[39:06.260 --> 39:11.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: He then, uh, went through my, uh, account and the contents of my home directory.
[39:11.780 --> 39:15.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I do a, you know, a little bit of security work for my company.
[39:15.320 --> 39:19.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I had copies of, uh, such programs as cops and Satan in there.
[39:20.120 --> 39:25.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, he decided that I was, you know, an evil, vile hacker and terminated the account.
[39:26.260 --> 39:34.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, you know, thus getting rid of all my mail, you know, about 15 meg of C code that I need for a client and, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
[39:35.860 --> 39:47.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, no other explanation, no proof that this happened, wouldn't tell me what the domain was so, you know, I could contact them and say, you know, hey, I wasn't doing anything illegal.
[39:48.400 --> 39:53.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, he had never proved that, that anything illegal was done to the domain.
[39:54.100 --> 39:59.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just the very fact that I used the command was apparently implication enough of my, you know, guilt.
[40:00.360 --> 40:04.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, he hasn't changed the permissions on the command on the system.
[40:04.860 --> 40:06.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's still publicly accessible.
[40:07.220 --> 40:10.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's, uh, fairly standard command on any Unix box.
[40:11.200 --> 40:13.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, you probably have it over there with the 2600.com system.
[40:14.960 --> 40:19.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, I'd just like to get your thoughts as to what you think about this.
[40:19.720 --> 40:21.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Were you in, are you in New York or New Jersey?
[40:21.940 --> 40:22.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm in New Jersey, actually.
[40:23.300 --> 40:28.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, and, uh, this can't be by far the only Internet service provider that you have access to.
[40:28.400 --> 40:31.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, but the main problem is I have clients there.
[40:32.560 --> 40:36.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, um, you know, you, once, once you have an account somewhere, right?
[40:36.280 --> 40:37.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: I've had the account for about two years now.
[40:38.180 --> 40:40.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: You sort of, you know, become that identity.
[40:40.640 --> 40:48.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it's just a, it became a major hassle to find another, uh, ISP that would give me the same level of access.
[40:48.880 --> 40:50.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, I have to transfer all the domains.
[40:50.740 --> 40:53.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: I have to transfer all the web accounts, et cetera, et cetera, over there.
[40:53.580 --> 40:57.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: And plus, they're not even going to give me any of my source code back and I can't get any of my mail.
[40:57.140 --> 40:58.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, you know, that's a major problem.
[40:59.000 --> 41:00.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, well, what choice do you have?
[41:00.640 --> 41:03.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, is, is, is any of it worth this much trouble?
[41:03.800 --> 41:04.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: I believe so.
[41:05.220 --> 41:08.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, the 15 meg of code is irreplaceable as far as I'm concerned.
[41:08.700 --> 41:11.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, I made the mistake of not having it locally.
[41:12.840 --> 41:17.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, you know, and it's all sitting on the ISP and I have no way to get to it.
[41:17.700 --> 41:22.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then plus, I believe that he's, he's completely wrong in his assessment of the situation.
[41:22.300 --> 41:26.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, is your plan just to be sufficiently nice to them so they give the program back?
[41:27.720 --> 41:37.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, what had happened was there was a big hue and cry in one of the local news groups, um, by a bunch of customers and some of my friends that were on the ISP.
[41:38.580 --> 41:43.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, um, this, he, the guy has acted on his own.
[41:44.120 --> 41:54.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, I'm, I know the owners and I had contacted the owners and they said basically that it was his call and that he was given, you know, full reign in the situation, which I didn't understand.
[41:55.020 --> 42:03.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, he said that he had contacted cert and cert had told them that RPC info was a, uh, quote unquote, hacking utility and used for no other purpose.
[42:04.640 --> 42:04.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[42:05.860 --> 42:13.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, uh, actually I ended up calling cert and, uh, got some ridiculous voicemail system that bounced me around for four days.
[42:13.900 --> 42:14.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, really?
[42:14.340 --> 42:14.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: What number?
[42:15.080 --> 42:17.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, their hotline that I got off their, uh...
[42:17.820 --> 42:18.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, voicemail, huh?
[42:18.500 --> 42:19.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can transfer yourself?
[42:19.500 --> 42:19.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[42:20.220 --> 42:22.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Boy, okay, I'll have to, I'll check into that.
[42:22.220 --> 42:25.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, um, you know, what you describe is so incredibly common.
[42:25.740 --> 42:26.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anybody can do this.
[42:26.840 --> 42:27.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anybody can do an RPC.
[42:28.040 --> 42:28.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[42:28.540 --> 42:30.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: RPC info is, is a standard command.
[42:31.040 --> 42:32.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's any part of any unit.
[42:32.700 --> 42:32.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[42:32.980 --> 42:33.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[42:33.580 --> 42:35.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I think it's publicly accessible information.
[42:35.980 --> 42:39.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll tell you, there's one site, it's called all.net, A-L-L dot N-E-T.
[42:39.800 --> 42:40.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I remember that.
[42:40.500 --> 42:42.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you tell that to that site...
[42:42.100 --> 42:43.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's got a great login message.
[42:43.120 --> 42:46.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Your system administrator gets a message saying that you're trying to hack them.
[42:46.920 --> 42:48.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just if you tell that to them.
[42:48.420 --> 42:48.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[42:48.820 --> 42:52.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: And since we're both system administrators and users, we're able to see both messages.
[42:52.940 --> 42:58.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, it's kind of funny to see them saying that this person's attempting to hack our site, when all you're doing is tell-nitting.
[42:58.380 --> 42:59.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's ridiculous.
[42:59.520 --> 43:04.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the way these people come across, to someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, sounds like you're a real threat.
[43:04.780 --> 43:04.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[43:05.120 --> 43:06.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: We get RPC scans all the time.
[43:06.960 --> 43:07.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not a big deal.
[43:07.880 --> 43:12.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Actually, Emmanuel, I sent you the... I cc'd the message to you.
[43:12.400 --> 43:12.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[43:13.040 --> 43:19.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: It will be coming from the... I think it came from the necronomy.com domain, so you might have it sitting in your mailbox there.
[43:19.620 --> 43:20.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: Full details.
[43:20.340 --> 43:32.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just think that it's so funny that just possessing the information and possessing a copy of any type of program like that will, you know, imply guilt and, you know, evil intent on my part.
[43:32.840 --> 43:34.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I have two suggestions for you.
[43:34.820 --> 43:35.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[43:35.220 --> 43:43.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: The first suggestion is do whatever you can, within reason, to get your source code back, which obviously seems to be of the utmost importance to you.
[43:43.320 --> 43:43.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Sure it is.
[43:43.760 --> 43:46.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Once you succeed in doing that, change service providers.
[43:46.800 --> 43:49.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's nothing worth this much trouble and punishment.
[43:49.360 --> 43:49.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: No.
[43:49.420 --> 43:56.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, dude, I... for all I know, you know, I'm not gonna... I would... even if I got the mail and the source code back, I wouldn't stay here.
[43:56.600 --> 43:58.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: Because, you know, this guy will have it out for me.
[43:58.460 --> 43:58.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah.
[43:58.980 --> 44:00.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's no sense in staying.
[44:00.180 --> 44:01.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is this a one-man operation you're talking about?
[44:01.900 --> 44:02.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, it's actually not.
[44:02.920 --> 44:09.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's a very large corporation in New Jersey, and we think they changed hands a few months ago.
[44:09.540 --> 44:09.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[44:09.860 --> 44:13.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are you willing to say what the name of this company is on the air so other people can avoid them?
[44:13.400 --> 44:13.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Absolutely.
[44:14.080 --> 44:17.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: The company is Intac Access Corporation in Palisades Park, New Jersey.
[44:18.200 --> 44:18.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[44:18.680 --> 44:22.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Actually, very shortly, I'm gonna have a web page detailing this whole information.
[44:22.720 --> 44:23.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: Do you mind if I give out the URL?
[44:24.340 --> 44:24.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sure, go ahead.
[44:24.740 --> 44:25.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh-huh.
[44:25.380 --> 44:30.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: It'll be W-W-L-0-PHT-dot-com-slash-Tilba-Sandtrip.
[44:31.560 --> 44:37.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, it'll be detailing the whole information and have all the voicemails on there from this guy.
[44:37.600 --> 44:41.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: Because, you know, when I got the message, you know, my heart stopped.
[44:41.060 --> 44:43.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm like, what is he talking about?
[44:43.240 --> 44:43.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[44:43.820 --> 44:44.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know?
[44:44.400 --> 44:50.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then, see, it all goes back, I think, to an incident that happened two months ago.
[44:50.360 --> 44:50.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[44:50.800 --> 44:59.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: Where this guy was yelling at a user in a public forum that the terminal servers aren't open by finger and you can't find out who's logged in to Slip and PPP and what their IP address is.
[45:00.240 --> 45:02.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm just like, you know, get a clue.
[45:02.780 --> 45:03.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: You're absolutely wrong.
[45:03.920 --> 45:12.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, I said, I have a little thing on my webpage that lets people get my IP address if they want to see you see me or, you know, web phone to me or anything like that.
[45:12.400 --> 45:12.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[45:12.840 --> 45:19.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: And he goes, well, you know, it's semantics and I'm really right and go away and stop posting in public forums.
[45:19.460 --> 45:20.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then guess what he did?
[45:20.820 --> 45:25.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: He went and he canceled all the posts about the topic in the news group.
[45:25.540 --> 45:25.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[45:26.100 --> 45:29.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: So there was no record of any, you know, anything that he got wrong.
[45:30.140 --> 45:32.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, I mean, this is what system administrators do sometimes.
[45:32.640 --> 45:33.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Ah, he's two months old.
[45:34.200 --> 45:35.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: He's been there two months.
[45:35.860 --> 45:38.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, but the thing is, I mean, that's not what your problem is.
[45:38.240 --> 45:39.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Your problem isn't infantile behavior.
[45:39.760 --> 45:43.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not getting access to things that you have a right to get access to.
[45:43.640 --> 45:47.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's being accused of things that you didn't do and had no intention of doing.
[45:47.500 --> 45:58.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: So that's really what I think we need to get across here is what the difference is between something that's, you know, a crime and something that's simply, you know, I guess fingering or telnetting or the equivalent thereof.
[45:58.700 --> 46:04.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, what it all boils down to is what happens when you have stupid people in positions of authority.
[46:04.480 --> 46:04.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I agree.
[46:04.800 --> 46:06.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not that we're saying this guy is stupid.
[46:06.140 --> 46:06.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, not at all.
[46:06.940 --> 46:08.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, you know, he might be very knowledgeable.
[46:08.780 --> 46:21.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: But, you know, to have a personal vendetta against a user who's brought a company business and quite a bit of business and there's no history of any problems with the account, you know.
[46:21.800 --> 46:22.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[46:22.040 --> 46:24.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: I've been there two years and then you make this snap.
[46:24.580 --> 46:27.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, there's a lot of suspicion on the net these days, you know.
[46:27.980 --> 46:28.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[46:28.060 --> 46:31.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Everyone's like, you know, doing illegal things, saying illegal things.
[46:31.320 --> 46:31.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[46:31.620 --> 46:33.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, up to something and everyone's looking over their shoulders.
[46:33.980 --> 46:34.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[46:34.340 --> 46:42.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: My other suggestion, just to do a little psychological experiment, if you're gonna store Satan somewhere, try changing the name of it to Jesus.
[46:43.960 --> 46:45.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: See if it attracts as much attention.
[46:46.340 --> 46:48.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because Satan obviously sounds evil.
[46:48.180 --> 46:48.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, of course.
[46:49.000 --> 46:53.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope some people were searching for family radio and just stopped long enough to hear that.
[46:53.800 --> 46:56.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is a quick discussion of Satan and Jesus on the radio, people.
[46:56.880 --> 46:57.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[46:57.700 --> 46:58.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[46:58.140 --> 46:58.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can I make a suggestion?
[46:59.080 --> 46:59.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, go ahead.
[47:00.560 --> 47:07.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm wondering if this guy might possibly be eligible for financial awards or financial damages.
[47:07.300 --> 47:10.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: If this guy's e-mail was seized...
[47:10.300 --> 47:11.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: He seized everything.
[47:12.080 --> 47:20.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then, under the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which was passed in 1986, he may be eligible for financial damages for that.
[47:20.620 --> 47:24.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's what the Secret Service lost their case on with Steve Jackson-Games.
[47:24.580 --> 47:24.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[47:24.820 --> 47:26.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was a violation of the ECPA.
[47:26.440 --> 47:27.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, he's right.
[47:27.440 --> 47:29.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: You do have a cause to pursue that.
[47:29.680 --> 47:29.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[47:30.180 --> 47:32.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: One last final amusing note.
[47:32.460 --> 47:34.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: Guess what the guy's e-mail address is.
[47:34.540 --> 47:35.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, what?
[47:35.560 --> 47:36.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: SS.
[47:36.560 --> 47:37.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you kidding?
[47:37.400 --> 47:37.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: No.
[47:38.040 --> 47:38.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[47:38.740 --> 47:38.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[47:38.920 --> 47:39.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: That sounds too familiar.
[47:40.240 --> 47:41.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's his initials.
[47:41.360 --> 47:43.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, that's the guy's e-mail address.
[47:43.360 --> 47:43.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[47:43.540 --> 47:45.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we'll keep updated on this story.
[47:46.100 --> 47:48.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, I'll send you some mail and check the webpage.
[47:49.040 --> 47:49.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[47:49.360 --> 47:49.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thanks for calling.
[47:49.820 --> 47:50.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: No problem.
[47:50.460 --> 47:50.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: Bye-bye.
[47:51.080 --> 47:53.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, that kind of thing is happening all too often.
[47:53.620 --> 47:53.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[47:53.960 --> 47:54.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Don't you think?
[47:54.300 --> 48:00.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, suspicion and people accusing others of things when, you know, we understand exactly what's going on.
[48:00.880 --> 48:03.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we know what's right and what's not right.
[48:03.860 --> 48:07.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, to the uninformed masses, you can make it sound like somebody is up to something.
[48:08.120 --> 48:11.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, like, I finger a site in, you know, in Latvia or something.
[48:11.900 --> 48:15.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: And all of a sudden, the Latvian secret police are after me because I supposedly hacked into their site.
[48:15.960 --> 48:18.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, but, uh, we know what a finger is.
[48:18.120 --> 48:19.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: We know what, what telnetting is.
[48:19.700 --> 48:21.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: We know what accessing the system is.
[48:21.940 --> 48:24.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's, it's totally different, uh, different concepts.
[48:24.740 --> 48:27.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, to the uninformed, it sounds like you're up to something.
[48:27.960 --> 48:34.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think the only way to prevent this kind of abuse from happening is to hit these people where it hurts, in their pocketbooks.
[48:34.560 --> 48:41.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you file a lawsuit for civil damages, I mean, he apparently has lost business as a result of this.
[48:42.500 --> 48:47.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you could also use the ECPA, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, just as Steve Jackson did.
[48:47.360 --> 48:57.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but, you know, Bernie, I'd like to use that as a last resort when nothing else has worked, because I think the most important thing is to try and get through to somebody and show them they're wrong, explain to them.
[48:57.960 --> 49:00.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Why what they're doing is dangerous and a bad precedent.
[49:01.220 --> 49:04.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if they refuse to listen to that, yeah, go after them using legal means.
[49:04.220 --> 49:06.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I just don't... I'm not into this litigation everything, you know.
[49:06.920 --> 49:09.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not either, but apparently this guy doesn't seem to be willing to be reasonable.
[49:09.980 --> 49:15.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think everything should be... every attempt should be made first to settle it amicably, but if that doesn't work, then you have to go the other route.
[49:15.500 --> 49:15.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[49:16.560 --> 49:17.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, let's continue.
[49:17.580 --> 49:19.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-279-3400.
[49:19.180 --> 49:25.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have two votes against the Bellatlantic NYNEX merger, so let's go to what we're talking about here tonight, but the floor is open as usual.
[49:26.460 --> 49:27.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on.
[49:29.780 --> 49:30.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on.
[49:31.920 --> 49:32.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[49:33.580 --> 49:39.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, I wanted to know what memes are available for finding an unlisted number when you know a name and an address.
[49:40.000 --> 49:45.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: I spoke with some private investigation services, and they charge quite a bit, like $300 to $400.
[49:45.860 --> 49:46.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[49:47.140 --> 49:48.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: There are ways.
[49:48.380 --> 49:49.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have a name, you have an address.
[49:50.280 --> 49:52.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I don't really have any friends in low places.
[49:53.360 --> 49:53.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[49:54.000 --> 49:55.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: How much do you know about this person?
[49:58.160 --> 49:59.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know, uh...
[49:59.760 --> 50:01.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, is this a name and address given to you at random?
[50:01.620 --> 50:02.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you know anything at all about the person?
[50:03.100 --> 50:03.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, no, not really.
[50:04.000 --> 50:05.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually doing it as a favor for somebody else.
[50:05.920 --> 50:06.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[50:06.580 --> 50:20.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I mean, if you have some kind of, like, information about them, what their interests are, something about their habits, if they go to school, for instance, if they work someplace, that information is stored not just with the phone company, but with all kinds of other agencies.
[50:20.520 --> 50:20.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[50:20.700 --> 50:24.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, you know, if, um, let's say cable TV, for instance.
[50:24.980 --> 50:25.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[50:25.260 --> 50:27.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, they have your phone number.
[50:27.380 --> 50:31.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, you give them your address, and you say, hey, what phone number do you have for me?
[50:31.520 --> 50:33.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Lots of times it's stupid enough to give it out.
[50:33.180 --> 50:33.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, right.
[50:33.720 --> 50:39.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Any utility like that will, uh, will gladly give that information out if they don't think there's some sort of a threat.
[50:39.760 --> 50:40.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not hard.
[50:40.540 --> 50:42.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Being unlisted, you're only unlisted with the phone company.
[50:42.440 --> 50:42.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[50:43.100 --> 50:50.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: What means do these, uh, private investigation services use, uh, do they have it streamlined down to just one phone call, or do they also have to do a lot of footwork?
[50:51.100 --> 50:54.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, if they have a name and address, they're going to look it up in TRW, which they all have subscriptions to.
[50:54.840 --> 50:55.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, okay.
[50:55.600 --> 50:58.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, and that's, uh, you know, most of the time, that's easy enough to do.
[50:59.040 --> 50:59.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[50:59.300 --> 50:59.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, Dad.
[50:59.920 --> 51:00.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you first hear me?
[51:00.900 --> 51:01.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, go ahead.
[51:01.700 --> 51:05.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, if it's an unlisted number, it's not going to be in TRW.
[51:05.560 --> 51:06.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that right, Phiber?
[51:06.680 --> 51:08.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, uh, it depends.
[51:08.760 --> 51:10.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: It depends if you gave your phone number to TRW.
[51:10.520 --> 51:13.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Lots of times people don't think, hey, my phone number's unlisted, so I'm not going to give it to anyone.
[51:14.300 --> 51:18.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, TRW's not going to only list your number if it's unlisted, if it's listed with phone company.
[51:18.540 --> 51:18.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, that's right.
[51:18.780 --> 51:22.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's not necessarily going to be, it's less likely to be there if it's unlisted.
[51:22.960 --> 51:31.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're not going to get, well, TRW's database does not automatically link to unlisted phone numbers that are in the different Arboks computers for their listing.
[51:31.920 --> 51:36.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, this is true, but I mean, that's, that's one of many places that a private investigator may look.
[51:36.540 --> 51:44.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, I mean, there's various, uh, online services that have, uh, skip trace and people finder type things, like Information America.
[51:45.120 --> 51:45.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[51:45.360 --> 51:46.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I found out this happened to me once.
[51:47.000 --> 51:50.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I had an unlisted telephone number, and I found out that someone got it.
[51:50.480 --> 51:51.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, an insurance salesman got it.
[51:52.120 --> 51:52.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[51:52.520 --> 51:55.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, who, well, I won't go into P.J.
[51:55.460 --> 52:03.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: over there, but in any case, uh, I found out that they got that information from an inside contact at the telephone company and paid that person for the information.
[52:03.880 --> 52:05.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that happens all the time.
[52:05.280 --> 52:07.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: People inside the, I mean, that's totally illegal to do that, obviously.
[52:07.960 --> 52:19.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was talking about fairly legal ways of, of getting this information, even though calling someone up and saying to someone you're not, I guess technically isn't really legal, but, uh, certainly paying somebody in the phone company to give you that information is definitely not legal.
[52:19.500 --> 52:27.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Apparently, private investigators regularly establish contacts within the different telephone companies to, to illegally purchase information.
[52:27.640 --> 52:34.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, Atlantic was pled guilty about, uh, eight years ago to doing just that, uh, on a massive scale in Philadelphia.
[52:35.020 --> 52:40.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: They were selling, uh, information to private investigator firms, to, uh, to corporations.
[52:40.680 --> 52:44.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: They bought, uh, private, private customer information.
[52:44.400 --> 52:45.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: They admitted that they were doing it.
[52:45.980 --> 52:47.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: They front-page news in the Philadelphia Inquirer.
[52:47.820 --> 52:48.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[52:48.340 --> 52:50.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, another thing that, that, uh, is very simple.
[52:50.920 --> 52:52.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have a name, you have an address.
[52:52.700 --> 53:00.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, you know, what, what people can do is just go to the house and, uh, you know, I mean, this is totally wrong and illegal, but it's what people do.
[53:00.340 --> 53:05.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's what happens if, you know, and you can look upon this as someone trying to protect your privacy as well.
[53:05.360 --> 53:13.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: If your name and address is out there, all someone has to do is go to the side of your house, clip on a, uh, you know, a, um, lineman's handset and see what phone number you are.
[53:13.400 --> 53:14.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Simple as that.
[53:14.160 --> 53:15.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, it's not hard.
[53:15.100 --> 53:15.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[53:15.440 --> 53:20.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: So this unlisted phone number, uh, you know, business is, um, I don't know, it's, it's a veil at best.
[53:20.700 --> 53:22.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not really something that's safe.
[53:22.740 --> 53:31.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: The most, uh, common excuse in, in the case of the cable companies is, uh, calling, calling the cable company and saying that your pay-per-view service isn't working.
[53:32.020 --> 53:32.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[53:32.560 --> 53:40.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because, uh, in areas where they don't have one-touch ordering, you would call an 800 number and it gets you a number from ANI and it has to match the number in your, in their records.
[53:40.320 --> 53:40.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[53:40.740 --> 53:44.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if you tell them your pay-per-view service isn't working, what number do you have on file?
[53:45.020 --> 53:45.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[53:45.340 --> 53:47.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: That, that's usually the best excuse to use.
[53:47.500 --> 53:59.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, if they show you it's coming from Texas when your cable system is in New York, they might suspect something, but keep in mind, you know, they're not really used to, uh, you know, to tracking down criminals and figuring out that something's,
[53:59.220 --> 54:00.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: something's not right.
[54:00.220 --> 54:01.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: So they'll just, you know, wantonly give out information.
[54:02.060 --> 54:08.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anytime there's a database with your info in it, some moron somewhere is going to give it to somebody they're not supposed to give it to.
[54:08.420 --> 54:08.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right?
[54:08.840 --> 54:09.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Does that answer your question?
[54:09.880 --> 54:10.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it does.
[54:10.420 --> 54:12.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, and, uh, one, one question for you.
[54:12.540 --> 54:13.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: NYNEX, uh, Bell Atlantic, what's your vote?
[54:14.300 --> 54:15.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no way.
[54:15.140 --> 54:17.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we have three no's so far.
[54:17.500 --> 54:17.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[54:18.040 --> 54:18.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: You think this is a trend?
[54:19.320 --> 54:20.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sounds like the no's have it.
[54:20.660 --> 54:21.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[54:21.160 --> 54:21.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[54:22.500 --> 54:22.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[54:23.180 --> 54:23.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello, how are you?
[54:23.760 --> 54:24.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi, great.
[54:24.600 --> 54:24.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Emmanuel?
[54:25.220 --> 54:25.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[54:25.560 --> 54:29.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, uh, Fiber Heights, Jeremy, calling your friend, fan from the, uh, cafe.
[54:29.420 --> 54:29.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[54:29.960 --> 54:30.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: And hi, Bernie.
[54:31.340 --> 54:31.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie there?
[54:32.320 --> 54:33.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi, Jeremy.
[54:33.100 --> 54:33.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi.
[54:33.940 --> 54:37.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, I have a question about something that appeared on my bill.
[54:37.260 --> 54:39.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, before you, before you ask your question, we must have your vote.
[54:39.880 --> 54:42.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, of course I would not want that merger.
[54:42.900 --> 54:43.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Who would?
[54:43.940 --> 54:44.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I don't know.
[54:44.700 --> 54:45.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Apparently nobody wants it.
[54:45.720 --> 54:54.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Don't I remember, uh, somewhere within my lifetime, I thought that the whole point of the, um, what do you call it, the, uh, divestiture?
[54:54.500 --> 54:59.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, of the, um, to counter the monopoly of the phone company.
[54:59.560 --> 55:01.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Didn't they break it down for that reason?
[55:01.480 --> 55:03.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: To, uh, to promote competition.
[55:03.660 --> 55:03.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[55:04.080 --> 55:07.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, didn't that all happen within, uh, somewhere in the last 20 years?
[55:07.920 --> 55:11.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, instead it's promoted mega, giant, multinational corporations.
[55:12.180 --> 55:15.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess, I guess they were in danger, so we had to have, you know, an influx of them.
[55:15.900 --> 55:18.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: I thought you broke it down, and now it's all coming back together.
[55:18.140 --> 55:19.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think it's crazy.
[55:20.480 --> 55:28.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, the question is, um, I got something that showed up on my bill a couple months ago that was billed by an independent company called Intel.
[55:29.560 --> 55:30.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think...
[55:30.340 --> 55:30.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Intel?
[55:31.060 --> 55:32.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I think Bernie mentioned...
[55:32.980 --> 55:34.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Phone company called Intel?
[55:34.620 --> 55:34.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[55:34.920 --> 55:35.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: The chip people?
[55:35.460 --> 55:36.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: I-N-T-E-L.
[55:36.900 --> 55:43.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie asked, didn't you mention at your previous, uh, location that your telephone was an Intel piece of equipment?
[55:43.300 --> 55:45.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, actually, that was Lock-Tel.
[55:45.320 --> 55:45.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Lock-Tel, yes.
[55:46.180 --> 55:46.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[55:46.820 --> 55:51.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think, uh, we're getting our Tels mixed up here, because, Phiber, have you ever heard of Intel, the phone company?
[55:51.380 --> 55:55.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: The only, the only thing I know of, uh, begins with an in, ends in a Tel, is Integra-Tel.
[55:56.100 --> 55:57.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, this, well, this is definitely Intel.
[55:57.440 --> 55:59.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it's in print, and, and, you know, on my bill.
[55:59.500 --> 56:00.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was one or two L's.
[56:01.060 --> 56:01.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: One L.
[56:02.000 --> 56:06.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, it, what the, what the, uh, charges were, three charges from an airplane.
[56:07.720 --> 56:15.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, um, of course, I, I, when I started to refute this, they told me I had to prove that I was not the person making the call.
[56:15.920 --> 56:25.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: At first, I didn't think that would be very difficult, because right on my bill, from my other long-distance service, there's a charge of a phone call that I made during that time period from New York.
[56:25.660 --> 56:25.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[56:26.140 --> 56:36.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, they wouldn't accept that, because I have to have proof, evidently, from another source, an independent source than their own, than, than, than, than a, than a phone company on their bill.
[56:36.340 --> 56:37.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, that's utter nonsense.
[56:37.680 --> 56:39.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is this what the other company is telling you?
[56:39.060 --> 56:39.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[56:39.460 --> 56:39.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[56:40.100 --> 56:41.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, where are you, in New York?
[56:41.260 --> 56:41.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[56:41.420 --> 56:41.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[56:42.040 --> 56:44.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: There is a phone number that, uh, NYNEX has.
[56:44.200 --> 56:45.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's an 890 number.
[56:45.360 --> 56:48.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think, I think it's 890-0163, but don't quote me on that.
[56:48.380 --> 56:49.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: It might be a number similar to that.
[56:49.880 --> 56:56.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: You call that number, and that is where you go to dispute anything that, um, that a company like that tells you.
[56:56.360 --> 56:58.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: You just say that, uh, you're not going to pay those charges.
[56:58.680 --> 56:59.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: They'll take it off your bill.
[56:59.820 --> 57:04.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: What you might, uh, have to do is fight with that company directly, but at least it'll get off your NYNEX part of the bill.
[57:04.860 --> 57:05.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: You mean the Intel company?
[57:06.140 --> 57:06.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[57:06.740 --> 57:06.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[57:06.800 --> 57:11.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: They'll have to, they'll have to pursue this on their own terms, but you won't have to worry about showing up on your phone, though.
[57:11.800 --> 57:12.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's weird.
[57:12.340 --> 57:23.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: What, what, what, what they were saying that was that they had to write a letter to, uh, the phone company told me that the Intel had to write a letter to NYNEX saying that it wasn't, that it was a mistake.
[57:23.860 --> 57:25.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: And of course, they're not going to write it.
[57:25.300 --> 57:26.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: They want to collect the money.
[57:26.400 --> 57:26.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[57:26.800 --> 57:32.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, the thing is, I think you've, you've alerted enough people to, uh, those devious practices and it happens all the time.
[57:32.360 --> 57:32.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Listen, we're out of time.
[57:33.060 --> 57:33.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks very much for calling.
[57:33.420 --> 57:34.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's not going to happen, bro, is it?
[57:34.560 --> 57:34.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[57:35.080 --> 57:35.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for calling.
[57:35.640 --> 57:36.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[57:36.160 --> 57:36.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bye, bro.
[57:36.780 --> 57:37.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[57:37.260 --> 57:39.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, Bernie, uh, best of luck to you in the week ahead.
[57:39.640 --> 57:40.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess we'll hear from you next week.
[57:41.620 --> 57:41.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[57:42.040 --> 57:43.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, please send mail to Bernie S.
[57:43.800 --> 57:45.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: if, uh, if you have not done so already.
[57:46.120 --> 57:47.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, Phiber, thanks for coming by.
[57:47.920 --> 57:54.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll, uh, be keeping an eagle eye on this, uh, Bell Atlantic NYNEX merger as Bell Atlantic, uh, moves into New York.
[57:55.220 --> 57:57.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Boy, it's kind of, kind of scary.
[57:57.980 --> 57:59.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll just have to see what happens with that.
[57:59.740 --> 58:00.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[58:00.760 --> 58:01.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: The program is Off the Hook.
[58:01.560 --> 58:04.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think, I think we may actually have our theme music.
[58:04.620 --> 58:05.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll just have to see.
[58:10.560 --> 58:11.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, good.
[58:11.200 --> 58:12.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we'll be back again next week.
[58:12.620 --> 58:13.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Same time, same place.
[58:13.800 --> 58:14.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is WBAI New York.