Off The Hook - 1996-05-07
[00:03.040 --> 00:08.960] [SPEAKER_09]: When I woke up this morning... I heard it in seven times.
[00:10.180 --> 00:20.370] [SPEAKER_00]: I said when I woke up this morning... Join us for an all-night celebration of James Brown's 40th anniversary as the hardest-working man in show business.
[00:22.240 --> 00:24.240] [SPEAKER_00]: Here on WBAI.
[00:26.380 --> 00:29.080] [SPEAKER_00]: Saturday, May 11th at 4 p.m.
[00:34.680 --> 00:35.460] [SPEAKER_10]: That's it.
[00:37.820 --> 00:38.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[00:38.980 --> 00:41.020] [SPEAKER_10]: This is WBAI in New York.
[00:41.300 --> 00:42.960] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just about 8 o'clock.
[00:43.100 --> 00:43.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Time for Off the Hook.
[00:49.890 --> 00:54.410] [SPEAKER_09]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:55.290 --> 00:59.890] [SPEAKER_09]: I cut myself off caving, now I can't make a call.
[01:00.650 --> 01:02.610] [SPEAKER_09]: It couldn't get much worse.
[01:02.930 --> 01:03.390] I
[01:09.230 --> 01:10.530] [SPEAKER_08]: hope that's understood.
[01:10.890 --> 01:11.550] [SPEAKER_08]: But make me move!
[03:36.740 --> 03:39.180] [SPEAKER_08]: This tape will self-destruct in five seconds.
[03:45.260 --> 03:49.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's another fun-filled, adventurous edition of Off the Hook.
[03:49.740 --> 03:51.440] [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, Phiber Optik.
[03:51.600 --> 03:52.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Are you with us?
[03:52.420 --> 03:52.920] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, I am.
[03:53.120 --> 03:54.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, Mission Impossible.
[03:54.260 --> 03:55.300] [SPEAKER_10]: I guess that's coming out soon.
[03:55.400 --> 03:56.640] [SPEAKER_10]: That's where this theme is coming from.
[03:58.320 --> 04:01.240] [SPEAKER_10]: We won't self-destruct until an hour from now.
[04:01.620 --> 04:02.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe sooner.
[04:02.420 --> 04:02.740] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[04:02.740 --> 04:05.880] [SPEAKER_10]: So, we have all kinds of fun things to talk about.
[04:06.000 --> 04:06.640] [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be hearing from Bernie S.
[04:06.720 --> 04:07.380] [SPEAKER_10]: in a little while, hopefully.
[04:09.520 --> 04:16.300] [SPEAKER_10]: I guess what we should probably do is do what you want to do first, because that involves talking to an operator.
[04:16.740 --> 04:17.220] [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[04:17.300 --> 04:19.180] [SPEAKER_10]: And if we're going to talk to an operator, we can't have Bernie S.
[04:19.240 --> 04:20.820] [SPEAKER_10]: on the line, because that's just not permitted.
[04:22.460 --> 04:30.560] [SPEAKER_10]: So, apparently, you have learned something rather startling in the last week or so that no longer works with NYNEX.
[04:30.780 --> 04:32.620] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, whether true or not, I don't know.
[04:32.760 --> 04:34.580] [SPEAKER_11]: But I was at a NYNEX payphone.
[04:34.720 --> 04:36.480] [SPEAKER_11]: It was a regular run-of-the-mill payphone.
[04:37.380 --> 04:39.660] [SPEAKER_11]: AT&T was, in fact, a long-distance carrier.
[04:40.300 --> 04:42.240] [SPEAKER_11]: And I did a zero-plus call.
[04:43.060 --> 04:44.240] [SPEAKER_11]: Zero-plus to where?
[04:44.500 --> 04:45.340] [SPEAKER_11]: Local or...?
[04:45.340 --> 04:46.640] [SPEAKER_11]: Zero-plus, yeah, it was a local number.
[04:46.920 --> 04:47.760] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, okay, a local number.
[04:48.060 --> 04:51.660] [SPEAKER_11]: And I have a couple of AT&T calling cards.
[04:51.760 --> 04:53.560] [SPEAKER_11]: Now everyone's going to try to scan them out.
[04:53.840 --> 04:56.780] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, it's only, what, 14 digits long, so it's not too hard.
[04:56.820 --> 04:56.960] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's true.
[04:58.300 --> 04:59.200] [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, they vary.
[04:59.320 --> 05:00.300] [SPEAKER_11]: Not all 14 anymore.
[05:01.940 --> 05:06.620] [SPEAKER_11]: But I tried to make the local call, and neither calling card worked.
[05:06.620 --> 05:09.660] [SPEAKER_11]: And the operator came on, and she said, what are you doing?
[05:09.740 --> 05:11.560] [SPEAKER_11]: And I said, I'm trying to build this call on my calling card.
[05:11.960 --> 05:19.740] [SPEAKER_11]: She said, well, as of May 1st, you can no longer bill your AT&T calling card on the NYNEX network.
[05:20.680 --> 05:22.360] [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm like, you're kidding me, right?
[05:22.440 --> 05:23.540] [SPEAKER_11]: What's that supposed to mean?
[05:23.800 --> 05:25.840] [SPEAKER_11]: She said it was some new law.
[05:26.500 --> 05:27.640] [SPEAKER_11]: And I said, okay.
[05:27.900 --> 05:30.980] [SPEAKER_11]: So I proceeded to go through AT&T directly.
[05:31.400 --> 05:32.720] [SPEAKER_11]: But I thought it was rather peculiar.
[05:34.220 --> 05:35.580] [SPEAKER_11]: Certainly something different.
[05:36.520 --> 05:37.160] [SPEAKER_10]: So now...
[05:37.160 --> 05:38.200] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think there's any forewarning.
[05:38.340 --> 05:42.320] [SPEAKER_10]: We can't use AT&T calling cards on...
[05:42.320 --> 05:43.580] [SPEAKER_10]: To make a NYNEX call.
[05:44.260 --> 05:45.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Which is what they claim...
[05:45.200 --> 05:46.720] [SPEAKER_10]: That's what the operator's claiming.
[05:47.740 --> 05:49.680] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, let's check into this.
[05:49.800 --> 05:51.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's do a little bit of off-the-hook research here.
[05:53.420 --> 05:54.800] [SPEAKER_10]: And let's talk to the operator.
[05:55.520 --> 05:56.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Operators know these things, right?
[05:56.620 --> 05:56.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[05:57.000 --> 05:57.840] [SPEAKER_10]: They're supposed to know these things.
[05:57.980 --> 05:58.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[05:58.440 --> 06:00.200] [SPEAKER_10]: So let's see if we can even get an operator here.
[06:02.480 --> 06:03.820] [SPEAKER_10]: I think probably this will annoy her.
[06:04.060 --> 06:05.420] [SPEAKER_10]: So let me turn this down for a second.
[06:13.370 --> 06:14.070] [SPEAKER_10]: There you go.
[06:14.330 --> 06:15.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Nice and smooth.
[06:20.590 --> 06:21.590] [SPEAKER_14]: NYNEX, can you help you?
[06:22.290 --> 06:22.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[06:22.810 --> 06:23.390] [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, operator.
[06:23.770 --> 06:29.450] [SPEAKER_11]: Is it true that as of May 1st, I can no longer use my AT&T calling card to make a NYNEX call?
[06:30.570 --> 06:34.210] [SPEAKER_14]: You can no longer use the AT&T card on the NYNEX system.
[06:34.510 --> 06:35.190] [SPEAKER_11]: What does that mean?
[06:35.350 --> 06:35.450] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[06:35.510 --> 06:36.370] [SPEAKER_11]: What exactly does that mean?
[06:36.370 --> 06:42.330] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that means that, like, you usually, how you could just pick the phone up and dial 0 and have her put the call through?
[06:42.490 --> 06:42.670] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[06:42.870 --> 06:43.850] [SPEAKER_14]: You can no longer do that.
[06:44.050 --> 06:50.390] [SPEAKER_14]: If you wish to use the card, you would need to dial directly to the AT&T operator and have her place the call.
[06:50.790 --> 06:53.210] [SPEAKER_11]: Could I use 10288 the same way?
[06:54.170 --> 06:56.190] [SPEAKER_14]: That would connect you with an AT&T operator.
[06:56.410 --> 06:57.370] [SPEAKER_11]: So I could do that.
[06:57.530 --> 06:57.750] Mm-hmm.
[06:57.850 --> 06:58.130] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[06:58.350 --> 07:00.690] [SPEAKER_10]: So I can't dial 0 plus...
[07:00.690 --> 07:00.950] [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[07:01.230 --> 07:02.610] [SPEAKER_10]: ...and get an AT...
[07:02.610 --> 07:04.190] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm a bit confused here.
[07:04.270 --> 07:04.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Forgive me.
[07:04.970 --> 07:05.830] [SPEAKER_10]: I can only...
[07:05.830 --> 07:10.510] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, when you dial 0, that connects you with the NYNEX network.
[07:10.690 --> 07:10.910] [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[07:11.150 --> 07:11.410] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[07:12.730 --> 07:16.650] [SPEAKER_14]: And AT&T, for some reason, doesn't want us to place their calls any longer.
[07:16.870 --> 07:21.950] [SPEAKER_14]: So they want you to dial to their operators directly in order to place your calling card call.
[07:22.490 --> 07:23.010] [SPEAKER_11]: I see.
[07:23.110 --> 07:27.650] [SPEAKER_11]: So we'd need to have a NYNEX calling card or else we'd have to dial whatever other company directly.
[07:28.450 --> 07:29.170] [SPEAKER_14]: You could...
[07:29.170 --> 07:33.790] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the other credit calling cards, we could never do them anyway.
[07:33.930 --> 07:34.930] [SPEAKER_14]: We just passed you over.
[07:35.110 --> 07:35.330] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[07:35.690 --> 07:35.970] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[07:36.130 --> 07:42.530] [SPEAKER_14]: But if you feel like you want to order a NYNEX card, I can take the information now.
[07:42.870 --> 07:43.130] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[07:43.290 --> 07:45.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, basically, you guys had a falling out, AT&T and NYNEX.
[07:45.770 --> 07:46.850] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that what this is all about?
[07:46.910 --> 07:47.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Some sort of a spat?
[07:48.430 --> 07:50.210] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, sir, I really don't know what...
[07:50.210 --> 07:50.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[07:50.610 --> 07:51.590] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I understand these things.
[07:51.610 --> 07:52.350] [SPEAKER_10]: It happens all the time.
[07:52.490 --> 07:52.950] [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh...
[07:52.950 --> 07:53.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[07:53.330 --> 07:58.050] [SPEAKER_10]: So, basically, what you're saying is we can't do O-plus and go through AT&T anymore.
[07:58.310 --> 07:58.430] [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[07:58.430 --> 07:58.710] [SPEAKER_14]: No, sir.
[07:58.850 --> 08:02.370] [SPEAKER_10]: We'd have to do 10288 or 1010288.
[08:02.650 --> 08:02.870] [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[08:02.950 --> 08:06.930] [SPEAKER_14]: You would need to dial the AT&T system directly in order to use their card.
[08:07.450 --> 08:08.030] [SPEAKER_10]: I see.
[08:08.030 --> 08:11.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Is this the same with MCI and Sprint and all those other companies?
[08:11.630 --> 08:14.650] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, usually, if you dial it directly yourself, you could get through.
[08:14.870 --> 08:15.090] Uh-huh.
[08:15.290 --> 08:15.590] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[08:15.770 --> 08:22.130] [SPEAKER_14]: But the only thing, you couldn't have an operator, a live operator like myself, put a call through on an MCI or a Sprint card.
[08:22.310 --> 08:22.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[08:22.710 --> 08:23.570] [SPEAKER_14]: That could never be done.
[08:23.770 --> 08:27.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it certainly is good to get a live operator occasionally because we get nothing but computers these days.
[08:28.570 --> 08:30.030] [SPEAKER_10]: But thanks for answering our questions.
[08:30.150 --> 08:30.750] [SPEAKER_05]: You're welcome, sir.
[08:30.870 --> 08:31.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[08:31.370 --> 08:31.630] [SPEAKER_05]: Bye-bye.
[08:31.630 --> 08:32.770] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm totally confused.
[08:32.890 --> 08:33.710] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't understand any of that.
[08:33.790 --> 08:34.890] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, basically, what?
[08:34.930 --> 08:36.430] [SPEAKER_10]: We can't dial zero plus...
[08:36.430 --> 08:41.610] [SPEAKER_11]: No, basically, what they're saying is that zero plus, which gives you NYNEX normally, right?
[08:42.250 --> 08:48.070] [SPEAKER_11]: Provided that the call is local, I'm assuming, is that you can no longer use your AT&T calling card.
[08:48.170 --> 08:52.150] [SPEAKER_11]: It won't be validated in NYNEX's calling card database.
[08:53.430 --> 08:57.470] [SPEAKER_11]: So that you'd need to actually, if you have an AT&T calling card, you need the 10288.
[08:59.310 --> 08:59.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[09:00.430 --> 09:02.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Or you could call the 800 number.
[09:02.470 --> 09:03.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Give us a scenario.
[09:03.570 --> 09:05.250] [SPEAKER_10]: There's no misunderstanding here.
[09:05.370 --> 09:12.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Like, what kind of a call would you be able to place in the past that you can't place in the future?
[09:12.930 --> 09:17.570] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, for example, say you page me.
[09:18.110 --> 09:20.950] [SPEAKER_11]: And you page me with your pager number.
[09:21.050 --> 09:21.350] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[09:21.430 --> 09:22.310] [SPEAKER_11]: Or something like that.
[09:22.450 --> 09:24.090] [SPEAKER_11]: Or you page me with your voicemail number.
[09:24.310 --> 09:24.590] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[09:24.670 --> 09:25.990] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to start up the theme again.
[09:26.150 --> 09:26.370] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[09:27.350 --> 09:31.570] [SPEAKER_11]: Both of which happen to be, both of those numbers happen to be local.
[09:31.790 --> 09:33.770] [SPEAKER_11]: Your pager and your voicemail.
[09:34.170 --> 09:38.930] [SPEAKER_11]: And I would pick up the phone and I would dial zero and then the area code and number of, say, your pager.
[09:39.110 --> 09:39.310] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[09:39.570 --> 09:41.850] [SPEAKER_11]: And I want to, or say, even better, yeah.
[09:41.970 --> 09:45.510] [SPEAKER_11]: Say I just want to beep you and I want to build a call to my AT&T calling card.
[09:45.950 --> 09:48.610] [SPEAKER_10]: So I paid a 75 cents in charge for some reason.
[09:48.610 --> 09:48.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[09:48.890 --> 09:55.270] [SPEAKER_11]: So I go to an INX payphone and I pick up the phone and I know that the default carrier is AT&T.
[09:55.510 --> 09:58.390] [SPEAKER_11]: So I dial zero plus the area code and number of your beeper.
[09:58.490 --> 10:00.590] [SPEAKER_11]: I put in my AT&T calling card and that doesn't work.
[10:01.910 --> 10:02.270] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[10:02.290 --> 10:03.330] [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds right so far.
[10:03.530 --> 10:03.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[10:03.730 --> 10:04.170] [SPEAKER_10]: It used to.
[10:04.330 --> 10:04.710] [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[10:04.770 --> 10:05.170] [SPEAKER_10]: It used to work.
[10:05.270 --> 10:05.950] [SPEAKER_10]: That's the only difference.
[10:06.170 --> 10:06.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[10:06.350 --> 10:06.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[10:06.590 --> 10:09.750] [SPEAKER_10]: But now my question is if you dial zero plus something out of the area.
[10:10.010 --> 10:10.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[10:10.390 --> 10:11.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Will it still go to AT&T?
[10:12.510 --> 10:13.950] [SPEAKER_10]: I would say yes.
[10:14.170 --> 10:15.450] [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't actually test that.
[10:15.450 --> 10:16.930] [SPEAKER_11]: I only tested it with local calls.
[10:17.150 --> 10:20.950] [SPEAKER_11]: And with local calls, I can no longer use my AT&T calling card unless I say...
[10:20.950 --> 10:21.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Let me venture this.
[10:21.850 --> 10:22.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[10:22.110 --> 10:33.290] [SPEAKER_10]: I hear rumors, you know, just thoughts on the horizon, just, you know, distant murmurs that NYNEX is getting into the long distance market.
[10:33.430 --> 10:41.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, what that could mean is that when you dial zero plus a number in California, it's going to default to NYNEX and you won't get to use that AT&T calling card at all.
[10:41.810 --> 10:47.090] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, maybe so, but I'd be curious considering NYNEX doesn't have any long distance trunks.
[10:47.450 --> 10:51.490] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm wondering who they're going to buy them from or buy time on somebody else's.
[10:52.350 --> 10:54.910] [SPEAKER_11]: It's an interesting thought.
[10:55.030 --> 10:58.270] [SPEAKER_10]: These are interesting times and things change virtually every day.
[10:58.450 --> 11:00.610] [SPEAKER_10]: So that's something to think about.
[11:00.930 --> 11:01.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[11:01.310 --> 11:03.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'm sorry you had to experience it that way.
[11:03.170 --> 11:06.510] [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds like the most traumatic experience there.
[11:07.370 --> 11:12.350] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we're going to talk about some area codes in a second because we have some area code information, which I think is kind of neat.
[11:12.450 --> 11:16.310] [SPEAKER_10]: But I saw two things on the news this week that kind of disturbed me a little bit.
[11:16.390 --> 11:17.490] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if anybody else saw these.
[11:17.930 --> 11:18.770] [SPEAKER_10]: There is this picture.
[11:19.030 --> 11:26.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Everybody had, you know, this 10 o'clock news story of these poor kids on a school bus that had, like, gone out of control.
[11:26.770 --> 11:33.390] [SPEAKER_10]: And there was a video camera in the school bus that showed the kids their reaction, I guess, as their lives were coming to an end.
[11:33.550 --> 11:34.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Or, you know, almost.
[11:34.830 --> 11:36.170] [SPEAKER_10]: They were able to be rescued, fortunately.
[11:36.430 --> 11:38.550] [SPEAKER_10]: But you could just see them bouncing around in their seats.
[11:38.870 --> 11:41.770] [SPEAKER_10]: And, of course, they have the video camera footage.
[11:41.770 --> 11:43.850] [SPEAKER_10]: So they're going to show this all the time now.
[11:44.450 --> 11:46.910] [SPEAKER_10]: How many school buses have video cameras in them now?
[11:47.130 --> 11:48.890] [SPEAKER_10]: How many buses have video cameras in them?
[11:48.970 --> 11:50.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Do taxes have video cameras?
[11:50.210 --> 11:51.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Does my car have one?
[11:51.630 --> 11:52.750] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, what's going on here?
[11:52.790 --> 11:55.270] [SPEAKER_10]: What's with all this surveillance now in moving vehicles?
[11:55.650 --> 11:57.230] [SPEAKER_10]: And what's the point?
[11:57.330 --> 11:58.870] [SPEAKER_10]: What is it that they're looking for?
[11:58.870 --> 12:01.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Or, you know, are they looking to see who talks to who?
[12:02.070 --> 12:05.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Or are they looking to see what kind of transactions are going on?
[12:05.330 --> 12:09.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Or maybe they're just charting the progress of kids as they grow or something?
[12:09.310 --> 12:13.510] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, taking some pictures and selling it to the parents?
[12:13.730 --> 12:13.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[12:14.130 --> 12:16.430] [SPEAKER_10]: They just want to see the expression on your face when you get into an accident.
[12:16.490 --> 12:17.050] [SPEAKER_10]: That kind of bug.
[12:17.150 --> 12:22.110] [SPEAKER_10]: The other thing involved the Oklahoma City bombing suspect.
[12:22.990 --> 12:24.310] [SPEAKER_10]: Not Timothy McVeigh, the other one.
[12:24.470 --> 12:25.390] [SPEAKER_10]: The one whose name I keep forgetting.
[12:25.390 --> 12:35.790] [SPEAKER_10]: But apparently, a year or so ago, actually, I think it was a year ago last fall, he got one of those prepaid calling card things.
[12:35.970 --> 12:36.390] [SPEAKER_10]: You know those things?
[12:36.550 --> 12:36.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[12:36.790 --> 12:37.950] [SPEAKER_10]: Prepaid calling cards we're always talking about?
[12:38.310 --> 12:41.690] [SPEAKER_10]: And he made some phone calls to some explosives companies.
[12:42.350 --> 12:47.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, they found this card and they were able to tell who he called six months ago.
[12:48.030 --> 12:49.150] [SPEAKER_10]: How do you think they did that?
[12:49.350 --> 12:53.150] [SPEAKER_10]: I'd say they contacted the company and subbedient their phone records, plain and simple.
[12:53.670 --> 12:57.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, how do the phone records, do they cross-reference them based on the card?
[12:57.750 --> 13:01.090] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, everyone tells me this is the way to make anonymous phone calls.
[13:01.190 --> 13:01.850] [SPEAKER_10]: This is how you want to do it.
[13:01.850 --> 13:03.850] [SPEAKER_11]: There's no such thing as an anonymous phone call.
[13:04.530 --> 13:12.090] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, they might not be able to tie it to a person, but I mean, there's a record of every call made and where it's to and for how long.
[13:12.810 --> 13:18.070] [SPEAKER_11]: Whether or not they can actually finger you as the person who actually dialed the digits is another story.
[13:18.450 --> 13:24.970] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, if you're out at a payphone making a call, unless they see you do it, then they can't always say that it's you, definitely.
[13:25.290 --> 13:28.970] [SPEAKER_10]: In a way, though, possession of that card kind of verifies that you're the person.
[13:29.130 --> 13:33.650] [SPEAKER_10]: In some ways, maybe having one of those cards takes away your anonymity.
[13:33.830 --> 13:38.630] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, for example, say, for instance, that card has, you know, a certain pin.
[13:39.270 --> 13:44.730] [SPEAKER_11]: And they contact the company and they say, you know, what calls did this particular pin make over this time period?
[13:45.310 --> 13:50.230] [SPEAKER_11]: And then they find the actual card itself with the pin and has your fingerprints on it.
[13:50.530 --> 13:52.910] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they fingered you as the person who made those calls.
[13:56.430 --> 13:59.430] [SPEAKER_10]: The reason I'm stopping the theme is because I think Bernie S.
[13:59.490 --> 14:00.010] [SPEAKER_10]: is on the phone.
[14:00.130 --> 14:02.050] [SPEAKER_10]: We can't have a theme playing if he's going to be on the phone.
[14:02.310 --> 14:03.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, there he is.
[14:07.190 --> 14:08.130] [SPEAKER_12]: I was right.
[14:09.810 --> 14:11.990] [SPEAKER_12]: To receive this call, hang up.
[14:12.970 --> 14:16.510] [SPEAKER_12]: If you accept this call, do not use three-way or call.
[14:16.510 --> 14:17.310] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[14:17.470 --> 14:18.990] [SPEAKER_12]: Or you will be disconnected.
[14:19.310 --> 14:22.010] [SPEAKER_12]: To accept this call, dial one now.
[14:24.670 --> 14:25.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[14:26.650 --> 14:27.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie S., are you there?
[14:28.010 --> 14:28.610] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm here.
[14:28.730 --> 14:29.050] [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening.
[14:29.230 --> 14:29.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[14:29.790 --> 14:30.930] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad you can join us.
[14:30.930 --> 14:39.010] [SPEAKER_10]: We're finishing up a little story here as far as the anonymity of prepaid calling cards.
[14:39.150 --> 14:40.270] [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think of that subject?
[14:40.330 --> 14:41.390] [SPEAKER_05]: They're not actually that anonymous.
[14:41.530 --> 14:42.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, see, you know this.
[14:43.150 --> 14:43.510] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[14:44.370 --> 14:45.850] [SPEAKER_10]: You're following this story, I assume.
[14:46.310 --> 14:48.990] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, I've been following the whole thing.
[14:49.110 --> 15:07.670] [SPEAKER_03]: About two years ago when they started getting popular, friends of mine in the law enforcement community told me that the federal agencies, the federal law enforcement agencies were very upset about these prepaid calling cards because it made it easier for drug dealers to do their business and hence inhibited the war on drugs.
[15:07.910 --> 15:17.050] [SPEAKER_03]: So, but since then, they've made agreements with these prepaid phone card carriers and apparently there's a lot of surveillance going on.
[15:17.950 --> 15:18.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently, yeah.
[15:18.810 --> 15:22.210] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you heard the story about, what's his name, Terry Nichols?
[15:22.450 --> 15:23.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that the guy's name?
[15:23.250 --> 15:24.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I think I remembered it.
[15:25.350 --> 15:27.390] [SPEAKER_10]: He apparently had one of these.
[15:27.610 --> 15:29.270] [SPEAKER_10]: They found it in a hotel room or something.
[15:30.010 --> 15:33.830] [SPEAKER_10]: And he had used it a year or so earlier to call explosives companies.
[15:34.190 --> 15:34.750] [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[15:34.990 --> 15:37.590] [SPEAKER_10]: And they're using that now as evidence against him.
[15:37.670 --> 15:40.010] [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, that's one of their key pieces of evidence, I believe.
[15:40.910 --> 15:46.750] [SPEAKER_10]: So that's kind of interesting how these things that we thought were anonymous actually are being used to convict people.
[15:46.990 --> 15:57.790] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess if someone wanted to preserve their privacy, if they memorized the phone card number, then there'd be nothing for anyone to find if they wanted complete anonymity.
[15:57.970 --> 15:58.310] [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[15:58.390 --> 16:01.150] [SPEAKER_03]: Having the card lying around is pretty much a dead giveaway.
[16:01.530 --> 16:02.330] [SPEAKER_10]: That is true.
[16:02.490 --> 16:06.290] [SPEAKER_10]: I suppose if you don't have the actual physical card, Farber, do you think there's any way they could...
[16:06.290 --> 16:09.570] [SPEAKER_11]: No, but I think that they're tying the card to the person.
[16:09.570 --> 16:20.730] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I think if you buy the card, memorize the number, and destroy the card, then I don't think there's any way really of tying it to you unless they actually have you under surveillance and they can see you dialing the digits.
[16:20.810 --> 16:24.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's say they know that you're going to call your house at some point using one of these cards.
[16:24.970 --> 16:26.170] [SPEAKER_10]: They contact these companies.
[16:26.350 --> 16:29.910] [SPEAKER_10]: They scan their entire database looking for that phone number to show up.
[16:29.930 --> 16:34.310] [SPEAKER_10]: And when they find it, they cross-reference it with any other use of that code to see what else they call.
[16:34.310 --> 16:39.930] [SPEAKER_10]: And then they make an assumption that since they know you call your house, maybe all these other calls were made by you as well.
[16:40.050 --> 16:41.850] [SPEAKER_10]: It's harder, but it is quite possible.
[16:42.010 --> 16:55.850] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, if all else fails, I mean, in the old days when people used to use companies' calling cards, they used to call up everybody that you called on that calling card and basically harass the person, saying, who called you at such and such a time?
[16:56.150 --> 17:00.910] [SPEAKER_11]: So if all else fails, they could always harass the people that were left on the bill.
[17:01.130 --> 17:01.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[17:01.430 --> 17:04.870] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think explosives companies are going to really fall for that too much, but who knows?
[17:05.690 --> 17:07.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie S., anything new with you this week?
[17:07.890 --> 17:15.710] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, for the first time in... well, practically for the first time in the past four months or so, I actually got a good two hours outside.
[17:16.510 --> 17:22.930] [SPEAKER_03]: We have an outdoor exercise case here, which has been closed for many weeks because we're doing renovations.
[17:22.990 --> 17:34.350] [SPEAKER_03]: And when I was transferred from Northampton County Prison to here, late March, Northampton County Prison weren't letting any inmates out into the outside yard because it was apparently too cold.
[17:34.350 --> 17:39.930] [SPEAKER_03]: And when I got here, as soon as I got here, they closed the yard to do renovations for several weeks.
[17:39.990 --> 17:49.050] [SPEAKER_03]: So today they opened it, and all the inmates were outside in this big outdoor cage, and I was put a few miles in running around the cage.
[17:49.070 --> 17:51.970] [SPEAKER_03]: You couldn't walk on the grass, or they just planted fresh grass.
[17:52.050 --> 17:55.510] [SPEAKER_03]: We had to walk around the inside perimeter where it was paved.
[17:55.690 --> 17:56.330] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was...
[17:56.330 --> 17:57.310] [SPEAKER_03]: I was amazed.
[17:57.470 --> 18:03.510] [SPEAKER_03]: When I was locked up in early January, it was in the middle of a blizzard, quite an intense blizzard, as a matter of fact.
[18:03.770 --> 18:10.890] [SPEAKER_03]: And now, the trees have leaves on them, and there's grass is green, and there's birds, and I saw a groundhog.
[18:11.090 --> 18:17.790] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's just... it's surreal, just having this instant seasonal change before my eyes.
[18:17.930 --> 18:22.730] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, just from a blizzard to summer-like weather in an instant, it's very strange.
[18:22.730 --> 18:24.130] [SPEAKER_10]: So, that's pretty amazing.
[18:24.290 --> 18:27.610] [SPEAKER_10]: In your eyes, then, it's been winter ever since you last saw the outside.
[18:27.790 --> 18:37.790] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, occasionally I can look out a small window, but I can't see very well through them because they're very thick windows that are bulletproof and, you know, inmate-proof, apparently.
[18:38.330 --> 18:44.170] [SPEAKER_03]: So, I haven't really had any fresh air or sunshine for quite a while, and it's quite a treat.
[18:44.430 --> 18:47.370] [SPEAKER_03]: I still wasn't free, but there's some semblance of it.
[18:47.390 --> 18:50.750] [SPEAKER_05]: I could see birds, and that was quite breathtaking.
[18:50.750 --> 18:57.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Fiber, when you served your time, did they keep you inside for a long period of time, or were you outside a lot of time?
[18:57.670 --> 19:05.490] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, when I first got there, certainly when I was in isolation, it was a similar situation.
[19:05.930 --> 19:08.410] [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't know how the weather was outside.
[19:08.410 --> 19:10.790] [SPEAKER_11]: It was a really small, thick window.
[19:10.790 --> 19:12.070] [SPEAKER_11]: You couldn't really see outside.
[19:12.070 --> 19:20.370] [SPEAKER_11]: The only thing you could really see is the fence and the... what would you call them?
[19:20.490 --> 19:21.330] [SPEAKER_11]: The halogen lights?
[19:21.510 --> 19:22.390] [SPEAKER_11]: It's really bright lights.
[19:22.610 --> 19:23.190] [SPEAKER_11]: Whatever they use.
[19:23.310 --> 19:24.370] [SPEAKER_11]: Sodium vapor, halogens?
[19:24.570 --> 19:25.350] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, sodium vapor.
[19:25.490 --> 19:25.810] [SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[19:26.570 --> 19:28.450] [SPEAKER_11]: And you can't really see much of anything else.
[19:28.530 --> 19:30.170] [SPEAKER_11]: You can't really tell what the weather is outside.
[19:30.330 --> 19:32.010] [SPEAKER_11]: You could barely tell whether it's night or day.
[19:32.830 --> 19:48.930] [SPEAKER_11]: When I was in general population, and we actually had outdoor time, it was... during the wintertime, there wasn't very much reason to go outside because we were on top of a mountain, and it was usually covered with many feet of snow.
[19:49.330 --> 19:51.370] [SPEAKER_05]: We were forced to shovel, I understand.
[19:51.650 --> 19:57.190] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, which... it was my duty to shovel and use snowblowers and various things like that.
[19:57.890 --> 19:59.870] [SPEAKER_11]: No chance of getting any skiing in, I suppose.
[20:00.050 --> 20:01.470] [SPEAKER_10]: No, no chance of that.
[20:02.190 --> 20:06.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, Bernie, last week we updated the folks on the TV saga.
[20:06.370 --> 20:07.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Has anything developed since then?
[20:08.050 --> 20:09.850] The saga gets even more interesting.
[20:10.150 --> 20:18.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, just to update everybody, we were able to gather some funds together and find a store that would actually ship a television set to Bernie S.
[20:18.570 --> 20:22.330] [SPEAKER_10]: based on the complicated laws and rules that the prison set out for us.
[20:22.570 --> 20:24.950] [SPEAKER_10]: The TV set arrived last week.
[20:24.950 --> 20:28.590] [SPEAKER_10]: However, the prison decided that it didn't have the proper forms for Bernie S.
[20:28.650 --> 20:29.270] [SPEAKER_10]: to fill out.
[20:29.930 --> 20:32.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Bernie, do you have those forms yet?
[20:32.170 --> 20:34.310] [SPEAKER_05]: How many stores have you gone to to find...
[20:34.310 --> 20:36.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Probably about four or five altogether.
[20:36.590 --> 20:45.910] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see, there was J&R, there was The Wiz, there was Caldor's, and there was service merchandise who then referred us to their mailing place, mailing order place.
[20:46.030 --> 20:53.150] [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently service merchandise is pretty good in shipping it out because it arrived here Monday morning of last week and a little over a week ago.
[20:53.490 --> 21:16.950] [SPEAKER_03]: And a guard came in and told me it was here and to fill out one of the request forms that I would agree not to when the TV set out to another inmate and that if it were modified in any way, like if the knobs were taken off or the TV was opened up, it would be considered contrabanded and confiscated and given away to a charity of the prison's choosing.
[21:17.570 --> 21:19.450] [SPEAKER_03]: So I couldn't get this form anywhere.
[21:19.530 --> 21:25.370] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember I had sent one to you folks to look at for entertainment purposes, but apparently they ran out of them here.
[21:25.510 --> 21:28.830] [SPEAKER_03]: I was told that until they printed more up, I couldn't have the television set.
[21:28.970 --> 21:32.450] [SPEAKER_03]: So all week the television set sat in storage and I couldn't get it.
[21:33.130 --> 21:38.410] [SPEAKER_03]: And finally one of the inmates had squirreled, I found an inmate who had squirreled one away in his personal belongings.
[21:38.790 --> 21:40.070] [SPEAKER_03]: He said, oh, is this the form you need?
[21:40.190 --> 21:41.070] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, yeah, that's it.
[21:41.290 --> 21:43.190] [SPEAKER_03]: So I filled it out and the guards are all very curious.
[21:43.250 --> 21:44.050] [SPEAKER_03]: Where did you get this form?
[21:44.150 --> 21:45.990] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, well, I just got one.
[21:46.150 --> 21:48.630] [SPEAKER_03]: They were kind of annoyed that I had to happen to come up with one.
[21:48.770 --> 21:51.630] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know whether it was a pod or whatever, but finally I filled out this form.
[21:52.070 --> 21:56.970] [SPEAKER_03]: The TV was brought into me and it's one of these cable ready sets.
[21:57.930 --> 22:04.150] [SPEAKER_03]: So all it has for an antenna connector on the back is one of those little threaded F connectors, one of those round cylindrical deals.
[22:04.770 --> 22:24.070] [SPEAKER_03]: And to attach the rabbit ears that came with it, you have to use this little transformer cube that converges the two spade lugs from the twin lead, flat twin lead antenna wire into a round type connector and it matches the T to 75 arms and all that stuff.
[22:24.250 --> 22:33.850] [SPEAKER_03]: So in any case, the guard attached that little block that came with the TV to the rabbit ears for me, the screwdriver, because we can't have screwdrivers in here because we're inmates and they can use his weapons.
[22:34.410 --> 22:42.770] [SPEAKER_03]: And apparently when he connected that and stuck it back to the back of the TV set, he broke off the center pin on the connector.
[22:43.950 --> 22:45.930] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course that's necessary for it to work.
[22:46.190 --> 22:52.850] [SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't realize this until I got it back to the cell and I turned it on, plugged it in and all I was getting was, you know, just a raster, just snow.
[22:53.070 --> 22:53.790] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, what's going on?
[22:53.890 --> 22:54.390] [SPEAKER_03]: Something's wrong.
[22:54.730 --> 23:02.270] [SPEAKER_03]: I programmed it for all the local broadcast channels and had the rabbit ears up all the way, even though on my ground, ground level, I should have been able to pick up local Philadelphia station.
[23:02.790 --> 23:10.190] [SPEAKER_03]: So I checked all the connections and I pulled the little transformer off and looked in it and I, lo and behold, the cannon had been broken off by the guard.
[23:10.370 --> 23:12.190] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, ah, the guard had already left.
[23:12.610 --> 23:15.070] [SPEAKER_03]: So I had no reception and I was really frustrated.
[23:15.150 --> 23:17.090] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I really wanted to see some television.
[23:17.310 --> 23:33.170] [SPEAKER_03]: So what I did is, uh, I got my nail clipper, which I bought the commissary here and opened up a little cube and wrapped a, ah, a wire tie that they wrap around loaves of bread or sponge if necessary that somebody had given me from the kitchen.
[23:33.910 --> 23:48.070] [SPEAKER_03]: And, ah, I stripped the, the plastic coating off of it to make a piece of wire and I wrapped it around the little, ah, toroid transformer in the, in a little box and stuffed it into the back of the, the connector on the back of the TV set and it worked great.
[23:48.330 --> 23:49.370] [SPEAKER_03]: I was getting TV reception.
[23:49.370 --> 23:49.850] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[23:50.010 --> 23:55.650] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that was just fine until the next morning when the guards came in to do a big shakedown of the whole cell block.
[23:56.070 --> 24:01.190] [SPEAKER_03]: And they put on rubber gloves and it goes to each cell just with, with great detail.
[24:01.370 --> 24:07.450] [SPEAKER_03]: They take, take everything apart, turn your mattress upside down and just look for drugs or any kind of contraband.
[24:08.110 --> 24:11.770] [SPEAKER_03]: And, ah, the two guards went into my cell and told them to leave and I walked out.
[24:12.270 --> 24:23.310] [SPEAKER_03]: And, ah, about two minutes later, one of them came out saying, with, I'll, I'll delete the expletives, but he came out screaming obscenities and I'm like, what the, blah, blah, blah, blah, you think this is?
[24:23.990 --> 24:26.470] [SPEAKER_03]: And I looked at it, I said, that's my antenna connector for the TV.
[24:26.910 --> 24:28.890] [SPEAKER_03]: He says, you can't, you can't modify your television.
[24:29.030 --> 24:29.490] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you know that?
[24:29.550 --> 24:31.650] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, well, it's just so I can get reception.
[24:32.110 --> 24:34.030] [SPEAKER_03]: He said, we're going to have to take your television away from you.
[24:34.710 --> 24:35.790] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't believe this.
[24:37.090 --> 24:38.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Did they take it?
[24:39.890 --> 24:40.290] [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie.
[24:41.310 --> 24:42.710] [SPEAKER_10]: No, wait, I didn't hear your answer.
[24:42.770 --> 24:43.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Did they take the TV?
[24:43.850 --> 24:44.490] [SPEAKER_03]: They took the television.
[24:45.010 --> 24:46.570] [SPEAKER_03]: But wait, the story isn't over yet.
[24:47.690 --> 24:48.750] [SPEAKER_03]: They wrote me up.
[24:48.850 --> 25:01.630] [SPEAKER_03]: They wrote up a contraband, ah, shakedown record indicating that I had to contraband, ah, modify television, which they were saying could probably be used for other illicit purposes like heating coffee, which is not allowed either.
[25:01.870 --> 25:08.510] [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't understand how they used for heating coffee, but they said it might be able to made it into something called a stinger, which apparently is a homemade coffee heater.
[25:09.550 --> 25:14.790] [SPEAKER_03]: So, um, they took the television in the antenna and they said I was going to be written up.
[25:14.910 --> 25:23.370] [SPEAKER_03]: And when you get written up, that means you have to go to the hole, which is this pretty unhealthy, tiny cell that's not lit well.
[25:23.550 --> 25:27.570] [SPEAKER_03]: And they bring your food to you and you're not allowed to have anything to read.
[25:27.570 --> 25:29.530] [SPEAKER_03]: And no phone calls, no visits.
[25:29.950 --> 25:31.230] [SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't want to go to the hole.
[25:31.630 --> 25:35.090] [SPEAKER_03]: So for two hours I'm wondering when am I going to go to the hole and what's going to happen.
[25:35.890 --> 25:40.050] [SPEAKER_03]: And, ah, finally, ah, we went to, we went to dinner.
[25:40.230 --> 25:44.650] [SPEAKER_03]: And when I went to dinner, I saw the, ah, the main, ah, sergeant was on stack.
[25:44.910 --> 25:45.850] [SPEAKER_03]: That night it was a woman.
[25:46.070 --> 25:47.570] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a Sunday night.
[25:48.170 --> 25:51.790] [SPEAKER_03]: And I, I told, explained the situation to her and she seemed actually kind of sympathetic.
[25:52.510 --> 25:56.110] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and she asked me how long I'd been here and I told her I wasn't here that long.
[25:56.290 --> 25:57.550] [SPEAKER_03]: Just a few weeks of this prison.
[25:58.550 --> 26:01.670] [SPEAKER_03]: And, ah, she said, well, come down at such and such a time.
[26:02.350 --> 26:12.050] [SPEAKER_03]: So, ah, I went back to the cell block and the guard who was already waiting to send me to the hole, um, I walked up to him and said, ah, the, ah, the sergeant on duty wants to talk to me.
[26:12.150 --> 26:12.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah?
[26:12.670 --> 26:13.850] [SPEAKER_03]: So he called down and talked to her.
[26:14.010 --> 26:15.430] [SPEAKER_03]: And so he sent me down to talk to her.
[26:15.690 --> 26:21.930] [SPEAKER_03]: And she actually, ah, was, I was able to, you know, make nice with her and explain to her the truth about what happened.
[26:21.930 --> 26:25.850] [SPEAKER_03]: And she said she'd make an exception and just to get another antenna connector within 10 days.
[26:26.050 --> 26:35.850] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I got my television back and then the guard on duty was very angry that, ah, that I managed to get away with this penis act of wrapping a wire around my antenna connector to get reception.
[26:36.090 --> 26:37.630] [SPEAKER_03]: But in any case, so now I had a television.
[26:38.190 --> 26:43.010] [SPEAKER_03]: So all is well, except now my, my cellmate has got a television too.
[26:43.150 --> 26:44.810] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't have two televisions in the same room.
[26:44.810 --> 26:45.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, boy.
[26:46.530 --> 26:46.890] So...
[26:46.890 --> 26:48.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Where does he come off getting a television now?
[26:49.330 --> 26:52.330] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, well, at least, at least you're going to be covered one way or the other, right?
[26:52.510 --> 26:58.370] [SPEAKER_03]: He knew I had one coming and then, ah, it came and then after I got it, I guess he got jealous and his girlfriend sent him one.
[26:59.010 --> 27:00.930] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't have two televisions in the same cell.
[27:00.930 --> 27:04.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean, it's kind of pointless to get jealous if, if you can't have two.
[27:05.430 --> 27:05.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[27:05.830 --> 27:09.150] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I told him he could use this, use this television whenever he wanted to.
[27:09.710 --> 27:11.110] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I don't really watch it like that.
[27:11.110 --> 27:15.090] [SPEAKER_10]: So now, is, is the one that you have now, does it work at all?
[27:15.270 --> 27:15.970] [SPEAKER_03]: It does work.
[27:16.130 --> 27:24.450] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I can't pick up the lower VHF channels, uh, because of just bad reception because I'm on a ground floor in a metal cage.
[27:24.730 --> 27:30.130] [SPEAKER_03]: But some of the UHF channels I can pick up and, um, I can sort of get in the PBS station.
[27:30.190 --> 27:34.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think the important thing, more important even than picking up UHF stations is the fact that you were able to stay out of the hole.
[27:35.090 --> 27:39.550] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that's, uh, that's, that you'd be commended for actually managing to save yourself.
[27:39.550 --> 27:42.890] [SPEAKER_05]: My, uh, my TV was going to be sent out as punishment.
[27:43.210 --> 27:44.850] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well that would have pissed me off no end.
[27:44.930 --> 27:45.610] [SPEAKER_10]: I can tell you that.
[27:45.750 --> 27:47.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Sending you a TV, having it sent immediately to charity.
[27:48.150 --> 27:49.730] [SPEAKER_05]: Once it's sent out, it doesn't get sent back.
[27:49.810 --> 27:50.030] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[27:50.610 --> 27:50.890] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[27:51.250 --> 28:02.230] [SPEAKER_03]: So now, uh, my cellmate has his television and he, he wants me to either move to another cell or send my TV out back to you so he can get his TV in you.
[28:02.390 --> 28:03.810] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a control issue kind of thing.
[28:03.810 --> 28:05.430] [SPEAKER_03]: And I say, he's welcome to use my TV any time.
[28:05.570 --> 28:07.110] [SPEAKER_03]: So, now I have this to deal with.
[28:07.650 --> 28:09.550] [SPEAKER_03]: It's gotten to the point where he's physically threatened me.
[28:09.830 --> 28:10.230] Mm-hmm.
[28:10.710 --> 28:11.590] [SPEAKER_03]: This is just ridiculous.
[28:12.970 --> 28:14.850] [SPEAKER_03]: So, I'm, I'm staying put as far as I'm concerned.
[28:15.010 --> 28:16.310] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm staying in the cell with the television set.
[28:16.390 --> 28:17.690] [SPEAKER_03]: And whatever he really wanted to do, he could do.
[28:17.830 --> 28:19.070] [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll see what happens.
[28:19.290 --> 28:21.950] [SPEAKER_03]: So I hope I'm not in the hole next week for, uh, having gotten into a fight.
[28:21.950 --> 28:23.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, avoid that at all costs.
[28:23.910 --> 28:25.570] [SPEAKER_10]: It's not, it's not worth it no matter what it is.
[28:26.010 --> 28:26.590] [SPEAKER_11]: Faber, you have something?
[28:26.810 --> 28:29.290] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, uh, just a little prison technical note.
[28:29.670 --> 28:33.930] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, a stinger is actually something that you, you make out of an iron.
[28:34.190 --> 28:36.390] [SPEAKER_11]: I never heard it being made out of a television set.
[28:36.990 --> 28:52.910] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, you actually take an iron that you would use for ironing your, your clothing and, uh, rip it apart and take out the heating element so that you can, you would plug it in and you would submerge the heating element in, uh, say a big, uh, pot of water or something like that.
[28:53.030 --> 28:55.470] [SPEAKER_11]: And you'd use it to boil water to cook things.
[28:56.290 --> 29:00.330] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I, I'm unaware of any part of a television giving off heat.
[29:00.550 --> 29:11.670] [SPEAKER_11]: And if you were actually stupid enough to, uh, use the, uh, cathode ray tube and stick that in water, you'd probably kill yourself, if not make a hell of a lot of noise.
[29:12.270 --> 29:12.950] [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh...
[29:12.950 --> 29:18.970] [SPEAKER_03]: I, uh, when I was in Delaware County Prison last year, um, I ended up making a few stingers for someone.
[29:19.090 --> 29:20.430] [SPEAKER_03]: I can say that now since I'm not there.
[29:20.830 --> 29:23.830] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, we used, uh, these were small ones.
[29:23.930 --> 29:26.530] [SPEAKER_03]: Just, we used an extension cord, which you could buy there for your radio.
[29:26.830 --> 29:45.030] [SPEAKER_03]: And we cut off the socket end of it and put a, a plastic, two plastic spoons in between the two strip wires at the end of it and put two pieces of metal, uh, pieces of, uh, um, nail clippers and just wrap the whole thing up with the, um, dental floss.
[29:45.370 --> 29:54.530] [SPEAKER_03]: And the electrical current passing through the water between the two electrical plates, it acts like a big capacitor with the dielectric being the water in the, in the cup.
[29:54.750 --> 29:54.930] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[29:54.930 --> 29:58.490] [SPEAKER_03]: In about, uh, ten minutes, a cup of water would get very hot, almost boiling.
[29:59.330 --> 30:04.390] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, even more interestingly, if you got one of those instant soups, it would boil within, like, 50
[30:09.590 --> 30:12.210] [SPEAKER_03]: turns because, uh, the extension cord would get kind of warm.
[30:12.830 --> 30:20.910] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, if you, if you accidentally shorted the two wires together, uh, it would blow a circuit breaker and then you'd go to the hole because you did that and you'd get caught.
[30:20.910 --> 30:23.090] [SPEAKER_03]: So, we managed not to do that.
[30:23.790 --> 30:26.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, uh, we have something concerning...
[30:26.790 --> 30:29.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Totally off the subject because we have to, uh, move on with the show.
[30:30.050 --> 30:32.470] [SPEAKER_10]: We want to give out the phone number, 212-279-3400.
[30:32.730 --> 30:37.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Farber, you've got something concerning, uh, the future of area codes.
[30:37.630 --> 30:44.030] [SPEAKER_10]: What we've been able to ascertain from this, um, is that there are plans.
[30:44.310 --> 30:49.130] [SPEAKER_10]: There are plans in the future to expand beyond the ten-digit telephone number.
[30:49.130 --> 30:51.890] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it looks like it would be to 13 digits.
[30:52.070 --> 30:52.770] [SPEAKER_11]: 13 digits.
[30:52.830 --> 30:53.550] [SPEAKER_11]: What do you think of that, Bernie?
[30:54.690 --> 30:55.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Are you ready?
[30:55.290 --> 30:56.370] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not looking forward to it.
[30:56.590 --> 30:57.490] [SPEAKER_10]: I've heard...
[30:57.490 --> 31:02.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you don't, you don't have to worry about it too soon because they're estimating this is going to take place in the second...
[31:02.230 --> 31:03.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Second quarter of the 21st century.
[31:03.810 --> 31:03.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Second quarter.
[31:04.050 --> 31:06.010] [SPEAKER_10]: I can't believe they're talking about a whole century in quarters.
[31:06.330 --> 31:08.330] [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, the second quarter of the 21st century.
[31:08.510 --> 31:11.550] [SPEAKER_10]: So that would be around between 2026 and 2050.
[31:11.550 --> 31:31.090] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it true, Farber, that, uh, Bellcore has given up its, uh, its role as defining, uh, uh, the numbering plan areas or area codes and that the CTIA, the Cellular Telephone Industry Association has, uh, volunteered to take that task on?
[31:31.430 --> 31:33.190] [SPEAKER_11]: No, I haven't actually heard that.
[31:33.410 --> 31:36.010] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, gonna have to check, uh, Bellcore's, uh, website.
[31:36.650 --> 31:47.230] [SPEAKER_03]: I've read that in, uh, I think, um, well, now it's called, uh, I think it's called, uh, America's Network used to be a key in Telephone Engineer Management Magazine a few months ago.
[31:47.510 --> 31:53.830] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, uh, Bellcore didn't want to have to be responsible for it anymore because they were getting pushed around too much, apparently.
[31:54.230 --> 32:05.770] [SPEAKER_03]: So they just gave it up and the CTIA picked it up, apparently not in a very altruistic manner because they wanted to allocate as many area codes for cellular, cellular, wireless, um, areas.
[32:06.030 --> 32:11.950] [SPEAKER_03]: So, that, that's who I think is, uh, is responsible for assigning and, uh, administering new area codes now.
[32:12.390 --> 32:13.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's, that's interesting.
[32:13.890 --> 32:17.030] [SPEAKER_11]: I wonder, uh, I'm definitely gonna have to check, uh, Bellcore's, uh, website.
[32:17.290 --> 32:19.530] [SPEAKER_11]: Now, let's, let's talk about the specific plan.
[32:19.650 --> 32:20.670] [SPEAKER_11]: They've got something in mind.
[32:20.790 --> 32:23.550] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, the specific plan is they have 80 codes reserved.
[32:24.210 --> 32:29.970] [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, the, the three-digit codes that they have in mind are, uh, the first digit is two through nine.
[32:30.350 --> 32:32.490] [SPEAKER_11]: The second digit is always a nine.
[32:32.670 --> 32:34.030] [SPEAKER_11]: So the middle digit is a nine.
[32:34.290 --> 32:37.090] [SPEAKER_11]: And the last digit is any number, zero through nine.
[32:37.350 --> 32:45.010] [SPEAKER_11]: And you come up with, uh, 80 unique codes, all of which have, uh, a nine in the middle and don't have a zero or a one as the first number.
[32:45.810 --> 32:53.830] [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, my theory seems like the most logical is that they'll simply prefix it, uh, to the regular ten-digit phone number.
[32:53.990 --> 32:59.570] [SPEAKER_11]: So say if you had, uh, say if you had a phone number in 212 and we ran out of phone numbers...
[32:59.570 --> 33:01.770] [SPEAKER_11]: Let's say it was 212-279-3400.
[33:01.890 --> 33:02.010] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[33:02.170 --> 33:02.910] [SPEAKER_11]: Just for argument's sake.
[33:02.910 --> 33:09.570] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, and let's say that in the second quarter of the 21st century, we, uh, we run out of, uh, space in the 212 area code from Manhattan.
[33:09.790 --> 33:09.970] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[33:10.110 --> 33:12.250] [SPEAKER_11]: Which, to my knowledge, is the only thing in 212 anymore.
[33:12.450 --> 33:14.790] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's not gonna be for long, but we'll get into that some other time.
[33:14.790 --> 33:15.050] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[33:15.570 --> 33:19.350] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, what they would do is say, let's pick the first valid code.
[33:19.550 --> 33:24.810] [SPEAKER_11]: So the first valid expansion code would be 290, according to the plan.
[33:25.330 --> 33:33.030] [SPEAKER_11]: If they prefix 290, then the phone number would obviously be 290-212-279-3400.
[33:33.410 --> 33:33.690] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[33:33.690 --> 33:40.390] [SPEAKER_11]: And what the 290 before the 212 would allow is, it would allow 80 new permutations for the 212 area code.
[33:40.490 --> 33:41.390] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I have a question, though.
[33:41.590 --> 33:41.750] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[33:41.750 --> 33:44.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Why does it have to be a 9 as a second digit?
[33:45.070 --> 33:46.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Why is that essential?
[33:46.670 --> 33:52.810] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, probably because every other permutation is already planned for, which is outlined in the rest of this document.
[33:53.510 --> 33:59.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I just don't... I mean, if it's gonna be a 13-digit number, it would seem to me that it would just wait for 13 digits.
[33:59.470 --> 34:01.410] [SPEAKER_10]: It wouldn't matter what the second number was.
[34:01.550 --> 34:04.530] [SPEAKER_10]: It could be 212-212-279-3400.
[34:04.630 --> 34:05.050] [SPEAKER_10]: See what I'm saying?
[34:05.050 --> 34:07.890] [SPEAKER_10]: But 212 is already used for 212.
[34:08.630 --> 34:08.950] [SPEAKER_10]: As...
[34:08.950 --> 34:09.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Correct, as the area code.
[34:10.010 --> 34:13.150] [SPEAKER_10]: But what you're making here is something before the area code.
[34:13.190 --> 34:15.410] [SPEAKER_11]: No, what I'm saying... No, this is an area code.
[34:15.670 --> 34:17.870] [SPEAKER_11]: What I'm saying is that the 212 would be moved up.
[34:18.110 --> 34:18.290] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[34:18.730 --> 34:21.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Is 212 still considered an area code at that point in that phone number?
[34:22.150 --> 34:26.450] [SPEAKER_11]: At this point, I think 212 would really only be the area code for informational purposes.
[34:26.450 --> 34:32.450] [SPEAKER_11]: I think, um, I think it would only mean anything to people together with the first three digits.
[34:32.690 --> 34:38.310] [SPEAKER_11]: So the first three... the three-digit prefix plus the 212 would actually indicate the meaning of where it was.
[34:38.450 --> 34:42.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, the thing is, if you look, and I believe this is true, right?
[34:42.450 --> 34:51.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Because I looked... I took a cursory glance at the United States recently, and I don't see any area codes, either new format or old format, that have a 9 as a second digit.
[34:52.470 --> 34:52.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[34:52.910 --> 34:53.910] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, does that...
[34:53.910 --> 34:55.530] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it would have to be the new format.
[34:55.690 --> 34:56.210] [SPEAKER_10]: It would have to be the new...
[34:56.210 --> 34:59.290] [SPEAKER_11]: You could only have a 0 or a 1 for the second digit in the old format.
[34:59.350 --> 35:00.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah, it would have to be the new format, obviously.
[35:00.770 --> 35:02.410] [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, I don't... I don't see any.
[35:02.750 --> 35:03.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Bernie, do you know of any?
[35:04.610 --> 35:06.410] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't think of any off the top of my head.
[35:06.530 --> 35:07.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, so...
[35:07.450 --> 35:17.470] [SPEAKER_03]: You might want to mention, Fiverr, the interesting trivia about why the major metropolitan areas had low area code digit assignments, originally.
[35:19.110 --> 35:22.890] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm trying to... actually, I don't remember what the exact reason was.
[35:22.950 --> 35:24.070] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, 212, 213...
[35:24.070 --> 35:27.530] [SPEAKER_04]: Had to do with the time that it had to dial with the dial pulses.
[35:27.810 --> 35:28.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[35:28.630 --> 35:35.110] [SPEAKER_10]: 212 is the best area code in the country because it's, you know, the lowest digits as far as a dial phone goes.
[35:35.430 --> 35:35.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[35:35.650 --> 35:38.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Followed by 213, which was Los Angeles back then.
[35:39.190 --> 35:42.690] [SPEAKER_10]: And then 214 is Dallas, 215 Philadelphia, et cetera, et cetera.
[35:43.990 --> 35:58.070] [SPEAKER_03]: In the old days, when we had mechanical telephone dialers, obviously it took less time to dial smaller digits because the dial didn't have to travel all the way around the circumference of the phone.
[35:58.450 --> 36:02.690] [SPEAKER_03]: So you add up all these extra dial pulses and clicks.
[36:03.610 --> 36:18.870] [SPEAKER_03]: If you multiply it by millions of telephones all over the country, it took less time for the mechanical switches in the phone system to switch between selections where there were only maybe one or two clicks as opposed to nine or ten clicks.
[36:18.870 --> 36:33.190] [SPEAKER_11]: I think more importantly is that when the bell system first came up with the numbering plan, obviously the major metropolitan areas were the first places to get direct distance dialing simply because they were the first places that actually had the newer technology.
[36:33.190 --> 36:34.290] [SPEAKER_11]: That makes sense, too.
[36:34.430 --> 36:37.530] [SPEAKER_11]: If you consider New Jersey, New Jersey is area code 201.
[36:37.990 --> 36:39.290] [SPEAKER_11]: That's the first area code.
[36:39.470 --> 36:41.070] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, you know what's interesting?
[36:41.310 --> 36:45.470] [SPEAKER_10]: And this is something that I also learned by looking over history.
[36:45.890 --> 36:50.890] [SPEAKER_10]: If a zero is the middle digit, that means it was the only area code for the entire state.
[36:51.010 --> 36:53.470] [SPEAKER_10]: So 201 used to be the only area code for all of New Jersey.
[36:53.470 --> 36:56.870] [SPEAKER_10]: If the middle digit was a one, there was more than one.
[36:57.110 --> 37:00.070] [SPEAKER_10]: 212, 516, 914, 518.
[37:00.290 --> 37:01.850] [SPEAKER_10]: They all have a one in the middle.
[37:02.050 --> 37:02.950] [SPEAKER_10]: New York State had lots.
[37:03.310 --> 37:04.190] [SPEAKER_10]: 203 is Connecticut.
[37:04.390 --> 37:05.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Only one area code.
[37:05.390 --> 37:07.450] [SPEAKER_10]: It's very interesting how you can trace the history of these things.
[37:07.550 --> 37:09.990] [SPEAKER_11]: But only if you consider the area code first.
[37:10.550 --> 37:14.570] [SPEAKER_11]: Later on, as they ran out of area codes, area codes were added that had zeros in the middle.
[37:14.610 --> 37:14.730] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[37:14.810 --> 37:17.150] [SPEAKER_10]: It was a stupid idea because it didn't last very long.
[37:17.150 --> 37:19.090] [SPEAKER_10]: But you could see what they were thinking when they started.
[37:19.850 --> 37:21.550] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what they were thinking, you know.
[37:21.550 --> 37:24.610] [SPEAKER_10]: But it looks like this 9 thing has been planned for some time, though.
[37:24.730 --> 37:27.110] [SPEAKER_10]: At least since they expanded to the new format.
[37:27.410 --> 37:27.510] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[37:27.910 --> 37:29.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Let me give out the current phone number.
[37:30.010 --> 37:31.830] [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[37:32.010 --> 37:35.530] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll be taking phone calls right away, I guess, as soon as we fill up the switchboard.
[37:36.210 --> 37:38.910] [SPEAKER_10]: And one day that number may be 13 digits.
[37:39.010 --> 37:39.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Who knows?
[37:40.090 --> 37:40.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[37:41.130 --> 37:43.350] [SPEAKER_10]: Someone brought up 703 and 804 in Virginia.
[37:43.450 --> 37:43.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[37:43.730 --> 37:49.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you see, if you listen, 703, I believe, was the original area code.
[37:49.590 --> 37:49.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[37:49.830 --> 37:51.810] [SPEAKER_10]: And then 804 was expanded to...
[37:52.510 --> 37:53.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe it was the other way around.
[37:53.750 --> 37:54.650] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure exactly which.
[37:54.970 --> 37:55.690] [SPEAKER_11]: 703 was the first.
[37:55.790 --> 37:56.550] [SPEAKER_10]: 703 was the first.
[37:56.690 --> 37:56.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[37:56.850 --> 37:57.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Then it expanded to 804.
[37:58.130 --> 38:00.910] [SPEAKER_10]: And now there's, I think, what, 540.
[38:01.250 --> 38:02.470] [SPEAKER_10]: There's all kinds of weird ones now.
[38:02.630 --> 38:04.130] [SPEAKER_10]: But that was the original rule.
[38:04.210 --> 38:07.270] [SPEAKER_10]: If you see a zero, you know, as the oldest...
[38:07.270 --> 38:09.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, I guess all the zeros would have been taken.
[38:10.490 --> 38:11.450] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not entirely sure.
[38:11.530 --> 38:13.650] [SPEAKER_10]: No, 909, actually, was a recent one.
[38:13.830 --> 38:14.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Now it's in California.
[38:14.890 --> 38:16.410] [SPEAKER_10]: And California certainly had more than one area code.
[38:16.890 --> 38:18.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, let's take phone calls.
[38:18.470 --> 38:19.990] [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[38:20.130 --> 38:24.290] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, for all those people that call in and try to be first every week...
[38:24.290 --> 38:24.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, guess what?
[38:24.790 --> 38:26.030] [SPEAKER_10]: We're going the opposite order this time.
[38:26.170 --> 38:27.470] [SPEAKER_10]: So, good evening.
[38:27.570 --> 38:28.030] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[38:29.470 --> 38:29.830] [SPEAKER_15]: Manual.
[38:30.110 --> 38:30.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[38:30.650 --> 38:33.910] [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to know, what happened to 1-800-MY-AN-I-IS?
[38:33.910 --> 38:38.570] [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, the old ANI identifier number that everybody in the world was calling.
[38:38.690 --> 38:43.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you see, I don't even know who it was that ran that particular service.
[38:43.330 --> 38:50.210] [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't think when they started it, they wanted everybody in the country to be calling it to find out what their phone number was at their expense.
[38:50.590 --> 38:54.330] [SPEAKER_10]: So, they decided to stick on a PIN of some sort.
[38:54.330 --> 38:57.250] [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's either three digits, wow, or maybe four.
[38:57.650 --> 39:00.650] [SPEAKER_10]: But it's still a number that I know is circulating all over the place.
[39:01.790 --> 39:03.670] [SPEAKER_10]: So, it's just a little bit harder.
[39:03.670 --> 39:06.530] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, there's other ways to find out what your phone number is.
[39:06.530 --> 39:10.490] [SPEAKER_10]: If you call AT&T, for instance, call AT&T 800-222-0300.
[39:11.130 --> 39:12.990] [SPEAKER_10]: They will tell you what your phone number is.
[39:14.050 --> 39:17.590] [SPEAKER_10]: And you get to charge AT&T for that privilege.
[39:17.950 --> 39:18.350] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yes.
[39:18.490 --> 39:23.690] [SPEAKER_15]: And on a similar note on AT&T, by the end of the night's over, they'll probably have this bug fixed.
[39:23.910 --> 39:31.710] [SPEAKER_15]: But if you call an AT&T operator and you ask to be connected to AT&T Alliance phone conferencing, you will not be charged for it.
[39:31.990 --> 39:33.550] [SPEAKER_10]: You won't be charged for the whole conference?
[39:33.670 --> 39:34.110] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just a call.
[39:34.110 --> 39:34.770] [SPEAKER_15]: For the conference call.
[39:34.990 --> 39:40.990] [SPEAKER_15]: You call up, you ask them, you call the AT&T operator, you tell them to connect you to AT&T Lines teleconferencing.
[39:41.270 --> 39:42.290] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know why.
[39:42.590 --> 39:44.570] [SPEAKER_10]: You're saying you have the entire...
[39:44.570 --> 39:50.750] [SPEAKER_10]: You can call Belgium, Japan, Beirut, all these places, and you won't get billed at all?
[39:51.310 --> 39:52.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that what you're saying?
[39:52.250 --> 39:52.510] [SPEAKER_05]: Correct.
[39:52.510 --> 39:59.050] [SPEAKER_10]: You can have a 60-line teleconference going for 12 hours, and not one penny of a bill is going to be generated.
[40:00.070 --> 40:06.770] [SPEAKER_10]: I think you have generated a lot of business for AT&T's teleconferences, which are probably starting right about now.
[40:07.410 --> 40:11.710] [SPEAKER_10]: I just hope you're right, because that's quite a bug, for one thing.
[40:12.030 --> 40:14.630] [SPEAKER_15]: From a payphone, I just have asked to be connected.
[40:15.150 --> 40:15.890] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know...
[40:15.890 --> 40:16.910] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you've done it from a payphone?
[40:17.030 --> 40:17.750] [SPEAKER_15]: From a payphone.
[40:17.750 --> 40:18.170] [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[40:19.170 --> 40:21.170] [SPEAKER_15]: From a payphone, call AT&T.
[40:21.390 --> 40:24.210] [SPEAKER_15]: Tell them, please connect me to AT&T Lines teleconferencing.
[40:24.450 --> 40:27.950] [SPEAKER_15]: It will connect you, but it won't tell you what the charge is.
[40:28.030 --> 40:29.210] [SPEAKER_15]: It won't prompt you for anything.
[40:29.710 --> 40:29.990] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[40:30.230 --> 40:33.410] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I know that you can connect to it, and you won't be billed.
[40:33.490 --> 40:35.530] [SPEAKER_11]: You can call the number at home and connect to it.
[40:35.590 --> 40:38.850] [SPEAKER_11]: If you never actually start a conference and call people...
[40:38.850 --> 40:40.330] [SPEAKER_15]: I certainly have.
[40:40.330 --> 40:44.790] [SPEAKER_15]: I've had 30 people on one line at a time without paying for it.
[40:44.930 --> 40:47.350] [SPEAKER_10]: You're not talking about dialing into an existing conference, are you?
[40:47.350 --> 40:47.790] [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[40:47.910 --> 40:49.190] [SPEAKER_10]: You're talking about starting a conference, right.
[40:49.410 --> 40:51.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, I don't know.
[40:52.210 --> 40:54.790] [SPEAKER_10]: That's something, I guess, which begs a little bit more research.
[40:54.850 --> 40:56.930] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm sure there's people out there right now conducting that.
[40:57.370 --> 40:59.550] [SPEAKER_10]: So we'll just have to see where it goes.
[40:59.850 --> 41:00.110] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[41:00.350 --> 41:01.110] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, thanks for the call.
[41:01.150 --> 41:01.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.
[41:02.950 --> 41:05.150] [SPEAKER_10]: That's the kind of thing I can get you into a lot of trouble, don't you think?
[41:05.790 --> 41:06.430] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[41:07.110 --> 41:08.150] [SPEAKER_10]: That's very expensive.
[41:09.110 --> 41:13.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Alliance teleconferencing, I remember, from way back, was 0700, 456...
[41:13.370 --> 41:13.790] [SPEAKER_10]: 1,000.
[41:13.850 --> 41:14.250] [SPEAKER_10]: 1,000.
[41:14.490 --> 41:17.150] [SPEAKER_10]: And there was 2,000, and there was a couple other ones.
[41:17.150 --> 41:17.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:17.790 --> 41:18.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Which no one ever used.
[41:19.090 --> 41:21.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, 1,000 automatically gave you the one closest to you.
[41:21.610 --> 41:32.530] [SPEAKER_10]: I always heard rumors of how expensive it was, but the problem was, of all the teleconferences that I ever was part of or heard of, I never saw one that generated a bill because it was always being billed somewhere else.
[41:32.690 --> 41:33.410] [SPEAKER_10]: This is true.
[41:33.550 --> 41:38.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, so I've never actually seen a bill for Alliance teleconferencing, but I'm told it can be extremely expensive.
[41:38.530 --> 41:43.390] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a teleconferencing charge, and you have to pay for all the calls, and who knows what else?
[41:43.450 --> 41:47.310] [SPEAKER_10]: But it's really neat to be able to hook dozens of places together all around the world.
[41:47.310 --> 41:50.050] [SPEAKER_03]: I did actually see an Alliance teleconferencing go once.
[41:50.170 --> 42:07.350] [SPEAKER_03]: I was working for Capital Cities, ABC, several years ago, and in their polling department, where we used to call, we had these watch lines, and we'd call over the country asking what people thought of the presidential news conference, and then we'd have Ted Koppel report on it.
[42:07.350 --> 42:13.430] [SPEAKER_03]: But on the weekends, we were allowed to come in and make free calls on the watch lines.
[42:14.210 --> 42:24.410] [SPEAKER_03]: And the watch lines didn't block us from calling Alliance teleconferencing, so I'd set up all these elaborate conferences, and I was told that I could make all the calls I wanted, so I did.
[42:24.930 --> 42:31.590] [SPEAKER_03]: And then they got the bill about two months later, and they were horrified that it was so much money, and they said, this wasn't covered under our watch bill.
[42:31.750 --> 42:33.370] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, gee, I didn't know that.
[42:33.710 --> 42:36.650] [SPEAKER_03]: And they said, well, don't do this anymore, and they showed me the printout.
[42:36.650 --> 42:41.690] [SPEAKER_03]: So, it was several thousand dollars, but I didn't get any trouble, because they didn't tell me I couldn't do that.
[42:42.270 --> 42:42.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[42:43.130 --> 42:51.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's not hard, especially these days, to rack up a phone bill in the tens of thousands, but that's something you should always be careful of.
[42:51.590 --> 42:52.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, let's go to another phone call.
[42:52.950 --> 42:54.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[42:54.470 --> 42:55.170] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm on the air?
[42:55.450 --> 42:56.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, you are.
[42:56.570 --> 42:58.810] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I had one comment.
[42:59.090 --> 43:03.670] [SPEAKER_07]: 1-800-MY-AN-I-IS, as far as I can tell, from Manhattan, is dead.
[43:03.670 --> 43:13.570] [SPEAKER_07]: They put you through to a recording that says something like, your call cannot be completed at this time, but, you know, it's as though it was connected to a voicemail system.
[43:14.770 --> 43:21.130] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, one other thing, 958 in Manhattan, why does that not work in certain areas?
[43:21.550 --> 43:22.710] [SPEAKER_10]: What do you get when you try it?
[43:22.710 --> 43:26.930] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, well, it clicks, and then pretty much fast-busy.
[43:27.530 --> 43:34.230] [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh, that, uh, it, you know, it'll work in, say, uptown, but, uh, not downtown, and then it'll work in midtown.
[43:34.390 --> 43:35.850] [SPEAKER_10]: What kind of phone are you trying it from?
[43:35.910 --> 43:36.330] [SPEAKER_10]: A payphone?
[43:36.410 --> 43:37.090] [SPEAKER_10]: A regular phone, of course.
[43:37.270 --> 43:37.790] [SPEAKER_10]: A payphone.
[43:37.890 --> 43:39.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, some cocots block it.
[43:39.570 --> 43:41.430] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no, not cocots, NYNEX.
[43:41.510 --> 43:42.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, regular NYNEX phones.
[43:43.130 --> 43:49.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Sometimes, I've noticed this, uh, with 958, if you get a fast-busy and you try it like four or five times in a row, it suddenly works.
[43:49.810 --> 43:52.150] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know why that is, maybe it's some sort of deterrent.
[43:52.150 --> 43:57.530] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I should mention that you can't have an infinite number of people dialing 958 at the same time.
[43:57.770 --> 43:57.870] [SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[43:57.950 --> 44:02.410] [SPEAKER_10]: If you have a whole bunch of people dialing it at once in the same central office, they won't all get through.
[44:02.410 --> 44:03.450] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a piece of hardware.
[44:03.630 --> 44:04.370] [SPEAKER_10]: It can be busy.
[44:04.590 --> 44:07.830] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'd never consider that, but, uh, that sounds true.
[44:08.270 --> 44:19.930] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, also, uh, one other thing, um, how can you tell, uh, you know, just short of dialing, uh, your exchange and 9901, uh, what, what kind of a switch you're on, uh, what little ways are there of telling?
[44:20.150 --> 44:22.130] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, also besides your exchange.
[44:22.150 --> 44:24.870] [SPEAKER_07]: It's going up to, uh, linemen and asking him, but, uh...
[44:24.870 --> 44:25.590] [SPEAKER_10]: I have my favorite ways.
[44:25.710 --> 44:26.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Fiber, I'm sure you have yours.
[44:26.770 --> 44:32.410] [SPEAKER_10]: I know with a DMS, if you hit a Touch-Tone and you hear the dial tone after you release the Touch-Tone, that's what a DMS is.
[44:32.430 --> 44:33.750] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, there, there's various ways.
[44:33.910 --> 44:44.130] [SPEAKER_11]: If, if you're curious with, uh, 9901, um, typically, if you don't have a 9901 number, um, under usual circumstances, you'd be on a, on an analog switch.
[44:44.350 --> 44:44.710] [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[44:44.710 --> 44:47.490] [SPEAKER_11]: If you do get the recording and you live in New York City...
[44:47.490 --> 44:47.850] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[44:47.990 --> 44:54.870] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, you should, you should try, uh, various prefixes, because sometimes they'll have a prefix that doesn't, where 9901 doesn't work because they forgot to do it.
[44:55.030 --> 45:11.550] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, um, I've noticed quite a lot of prefixes like that, uh, uptown, um, do not, uh, you know, um, uh, I, I think it must be the West 73rd Street DMS, if you're wondering, also home of the, uh, notorious 874 exchange, which is, uh, as I think Rebel has said many times,
[45:11.750 --> 45:16.110] [SPEAKER_07]: is, uh, notorious for different ways to make free phone calls or just do strange things.
[45:16.310 --> 45:22.110] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you should bear in mind that West 73rd Street also has a 1A ESS, so you shouldn't confuse the exchanges.
[45:22.450 --> 45:22.750] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[45:23.470 --> 45:23.990] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, okay.
[45:24.150 --> 45:25.530] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, uh, that's pretty much it, then.
[45:25.670 --> 45:26.470] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[45:26.590 --> 45:26.950] [SPEAKER_07]: All right, bye-bye.
[45:28.370 --> 45:29.470] [SPEAKER_11]: No crossbars anymore.
[45:30.410 --> 45:36.810] [SPEAKER_11]: No, actually, I, last I checked, there was still a crossbar at West Street that they might have been, uh, having there for nostalgic reasons or something.
[45:36.890 --> 45:37.770] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if it's still there, though.
[45:38.810 --> 45:39.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm, interesting.
[45:40.270 --> 45:43.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, uh, 212-279-3400, good evening, you're on the air.
[45:44.530 --> 45:44.730] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[45:44.970 --> 45:45.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, go ahead.
[45:45.610 --> 45:45.870] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hi.
[45:46.270 --> 45:47.430] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, is Bernie S on the line?
[45:47.910 --> 45:48.710] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm still here.
[45:48.790 --> 45:49.450] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, good, yeah.
[45:49.530 --> 45:59.570] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to, I wanted to ask you about your experiences, um, with that, um, it seemed like you had a, a convergence of coincidences in terms of you not being able to get your television working.
[46:00.270 --> 46:03.670] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, on that F connector that you said the center post was broken?
[46:03.670 --> 46:04.330] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[46:04.530 --> 46:08.130] [SPEAKER_02]: I was wondering, did you, did you find a, uh, the little piece that was missing?
[46:09.150 --> 46:12.130] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes, it was, uh, it was stuck in, in the F connector.
[46:12.430 --> 46:14.810] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay, so that apparently was a real, uh...
[46:14.810 --> 46:22.810] [SPEAKER_03]: I tried to wiggle the, uh, the Valen transformer so that it would match up with where it broke off, but it broke off so flush that I just couldn't get it to connect.
[46:23.030 --> 46:29.010] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I was just, it just sort of sounded a little suspicious, like maybe they intentionally broke it off, uh...
[46:29.010 --> 46:36.730] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it was, it was, it was mashed, they just didn't plug it in right, and when they pushed it in, it, it sort of mashed and then broke off.
[46:37.050 --> 46:37.230] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[46:37.330 --> 46:39.390] [SPEAKER_03]: So that was just carelessness on the part of the guard.
[46:39.550 --> 46:40.630] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's, that sounds...
[46:40.630 --> 46:55.430] [SPEAKER_02]: No, because the fact that that happened, and then all of a sudden your, your cellmate also gets a TV, which violates a room, and the fact that they couldn't make a copy of a form or couldn't find a form, it just seemed like it was a, you know, a series of things that maybe were a little too,
[46:55.430 --> 46:58.190] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, coincidental to be a coincidence.
[46:58.490 --> 47:00.190] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I can run wild in a place like this.
[47:00.350 --> 47:00.610] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[47:00.730 --> 47:01.670] [SPEAKER_03]: A driver went through that, too.
[47:01.750 --> 47:05.850] [SPEAKER_03]: You start to get paranoid and think all these things are, uh, are happening for a reason.
[47:06.090 --> 47:12.490] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've just dispelled most of that, and I, I need to see real, real proof of, uh, some kind of conspiracy.
[47:12.690 --> 47:18.090] [SPEAKER_03]: That kind of stuff does happen in prisons all the time, but in this case, I think it was a coincidence.
[47:18.430 --> 47:19.030] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, good.
[47:19.210 --> 47:19.610] [SPEAKER_02]: Good luck.
[47:19.730 --> 47:20.450] Thanks for your concern.
[47:20.610 --> 47:20.750] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[47:21.190 --> 47:21.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for your call.
[47:21.870 --> 47:24.570] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's, uh, take one more phone call.
[47:24.650 --> 47:25.650] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure we can take a few more phone calls.
[47:25.690 --> 47:25.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[47:25.990 --> 47:26.430] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[47:27.750 --> 47:28.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, hello?
[47:28.850 --> 47:29.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, hello.
[47:29.730 --> 47:30.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, go ahead.
[47:31.170 --> 47:32.410] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, is this WBAI?
[47:32.530 --> 47:32.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's right.
[47:32.990 --> 47:33.450] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[47:34.070 --> 47:45.430] [SPEAKER_06]: I've been kind of an NPA junkie, split junkie for years, and I noticed with great pleasure, I don't know if you've already mentioned this, but that the new NYNEX Yellow Pages has a map that dates back to the 80s.
[47:45.570 --> 47:46.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, really?
[47:46.350 --> 47:48.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's like, it's almost a time machine.
[47:48.750 --> 47:51.070] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, there's certain parts of the country wouldn't exist.
[47:51.070 --> 47:56.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Wait, do they have this, uh, intentionally, or is it because they're inept and they're printing outdated information?
[47:56.950 --> 48:00.110] [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's because the people at Donnelly are sleepwalking.
[48:00.210 --> 48:00.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, yeah.
[48:01.090 --> 48:06.850] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but the other thing that comes up in all this discussion, it's really fascinating to watch how they split.
[48:06.850 --> 48:08.210] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on a cellular phone, aren't you?
[48:08.370 --> 48:08.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[48:08.730 --> 48:09.250] [SPEAKER_10]: I can tell.
[48:09.450 --> 48:23.390] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, it's, it's fascinating to see, you know, all the, the politics and the contention behind these new splits, but I started to wonder whether the system's just getting dysfunctional, you know, and we begin to talk about the obsolescence of the 10-digit phone number.
[48:23.790 --> 48:37.230] [SPEAKER_06]: Isn't it possible that, uh, you know, dialing by address or by name or by some kind of non-numeric identifier is going to become an enhanced service that they charge a lot for and ultimately becomes compulsory?
[48:37.710 --> 48:39.130] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, anything's possible.
[48:39.130 --> 48:43.090] [SPEAKER_10]: They could route it by a social security number, perhaps, or maybe an IP or something.
[48:43.270 --> 48:51.970] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, however, however they present it to the customer, I, I, I feel that it's always going to be represented internally, uh, numerically, because there's no real way to manage it otherwise.
[48:52.330 --> 48:53.670] [SPEAKER_10]: These numbers are starting to get ridiculous.
[48:53.910 --> 49:03.570] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it used to be, you could, you could look at the country and know certain area codes, and I'm having trouble now, and if, if, if it expands to 13 digits in the future, I mean, no one's going to know what's the dial.
[49:03.670 --> 49:14.850] [SPEAKER_11]: I think, I think the problem that we're faced with is, uh, the same problem that they solved decades ago on the Internet, which is, um, originally, obviously, and, and still, all addresses on the Internet are numerical.
[49:15.150 --> 49:15.310] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[49:15.430 --> 49:19.130] [SPEAKER_11]: Nobody memorizes the numerical address of a particular site on the net.
[49:19.630 --> 49:20.810] [SPEAKER_11]: They're, they're originally...
[49:20.810 --> 49:21.950] [SPEAKER_10]: I wouldn't say that, but...
[49:21.950 --> 49:23.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, people do, yes, but I mean...
[49:23.970 --> 49:25.090] [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of, a lot of people out there do that.
[49:25.090 --> 49:27.950] [SPEAKER_11]: There's no reason to, under normal circumstances.
[49:28.470 --> 49:44.250] [SPEAKER_11]: Originally, what they did is pass around a host file, and later they came up with the scheme of, uh, the domain name system, which is what we use today, which is basically, uh, distributed servers that store, uh, names and, uh, and how they map out to numerical addresses,
[49:44.310 --> 49:47.210] [SPEAKER_11]: and I think that we might need to do something like that in the phone system.
[49:47.210 --> 49:49.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, I think that's, that's coming.
[49:49.930 --> 49:58.870] [SPEAKER_06]: The last thing I wanted to mention is I found some interesting, uh, PAC-TEL documents dating back to 1959 about the double area code problem.
[49:59.130 --> 50:18.130] [SPEAKER_06]: In those days, if you dialed, let's say, 415-213 and then a number, it was very likely that you would fool the, uh, switch into thinking, um, that you could then get a free call into the 213, and apparently they were losing substantial billing revenue as early as 1959,
[50:18.310 --> 50:20.790] [SPEAKER_06]: because people were using this trick.
[50:21.050 --> 50:39.970] [SPEAKER_10]: That used to work in 202, actually, not too long ago, uh, before dialing 1 was required there, I remember it was possible to, uh, to use an alternate long-distance company and, um, and, and say, just dial 202 and then, uh, 212 and then the first few digits until you heard a click,
[50:40.170 --> 50:49.390] [SPEAKER_10]: and that meant you had an open trunk, and then you dialed the last three digits and it would go through, because, uh, you were somehow being routed into 202 and it wasn't, uh, wasn't waiting for a 1.
[50:49.870 --> 50:54.930] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I was just kind of amused that they convened a high-level task force about it in the late 50s.
[50:55.270 --> 50:55.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[50:55.570 --> 50:56.910] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, they do things like that.
[50:57.450 --> 50:58.270] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, thanks for the call.
[50:58.590 --> 50:58.970] [SPEAKER_06]: Good deal.
[50:59.150 --> 50:59.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[51:00.430 --> 51:00.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[51:01.030 --> 51:01.370] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[51:02.030 --> 51:02.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[51:02.810 --> 51:03.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie, you still there?
[51:04.750 --> 51:05.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-oh, did we lose Bernie?
[51:05.970 --> 51:06.430] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm still here.
[51:06.430 --> 51:06.910] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, good.
[51:07.150 --> 51:09.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Sorry about that, uh, that noxious tone there.
[51:09.390 --> 51:10.410] [SPEAKER_17]: You didn't shut me off.
[51:10.530 --> 51:11.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, good evening.
[51:11.130 --> 51:11.530] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[51:11.790 --> 51:12.590] [SPEAKER_17]: Hello, Emmanuel.
[51:12.810 --> 51:13.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[51:13.650 --> 51:15.190] [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, some interesting things.
[51:15.430 --> 51:22.650] [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, a couple weeks ago, I was at work, and I was trying to call, uh, Creative Labs out in Stillwater, Oklahoma.
[51:23.490 --> 51:23.970] [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[51:24.670 --> 51:37.970] [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, just for the hell of it, I remember some time back reading a posting that, uh, one particular time you could dial the local operator using the 1 plus, or NPA plus 121 dash 1-1-1-1-1.
[51:38.770 --> 51:47.950] [SPEAKER_17]: Now, just for the heck of it, I just said, let's try reaching the local operator somewhere in Stillwater, Oklahoma, or whatever, sir, by 405.
[51:47.950 --> 51:53.750] [SPEAKER_17]: And so I dialed 1-4-0-5-1-2-1-1-1-1-1.
[51:53.930 --> 51:54.130] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[51:54.130 --> 51:59.170] [SPEAKER_17]: Now, normally, you'd get, uh, we're sorry, your call, you cannot be completed as dialed.
[51:59.550 --> 52:05.450] [SPEAKER_17]: However, I got someone, somebody's answering machine, and obviously it's not from this part of the country.
[52:05.730 --> 52:08.030] [SPEAKER_17]: You know, it sounds like a typical Midwestern accent.
[52:09.910 --> 52:10.270] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[52:10.530 --> 52:10.610] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[52:10.610 --> 52:13.250] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, well, the thing is, is, uh, could have been a voicemail system.
[52:13.930 --> 52:15.890] [SPEAKER_11]: Did it sound like a voicemail system by any chance?
[52:15.890 --> 52:21.950] [SPEAKER_17]: No, it sounded like, you know, some family's, uh, you know, was reciting names of the people in the family, of all things.
[52:22.150 --> 52:23.310] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, two things.
[52:23.550 --> 52:31.990] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, the first thing is that your particular central office, local to you, would have to be misconfigured to allow those digits to be passed in the first place.
[52:31.990 --> 52:45.290] [SPEAKER_11]: And I, I can recall when, uh, when I was living in Queens and we were first cut over to a number, from a number five crossbar to a number five ESS, um, I had stayed up overnight and I actually caught the cutover.
[52:45.750 --> 52:56.210] [SPEAKER_11]: And for the whole next morning up until the late afternoon, they were actually still entering in translations into the new switch, even while it was actually live and connected.
[52:56.550 --> 53:01.450] [SPEAKER_11]: And I was able to dial various routing codes and things just by picking up the phone and dialing them.
[53:01.990 --> 53:08.110] [SPEAKER_11]: So first of all, in order for you to even be able to dial area code plus one, two, one, your local switch would have to be misconfigured.
[53:08.590 --> 53:13.050] [SPEAKER_11]: Second of all is, um, if you're actually reaching a person.
[53:13.510 --> 53:13.750] [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[53:14.350 --> 53:15.990] [SPEAKER_17]: It sounds, I'm reaching somebody.
[53:16.130 --> 53:19.870] [SPEAKER_17]: It's not voicemail because it doesn't sound like a company or whatnot.
[53:20.410 --> 53:23.990] [SPEAKER_17]: It sounds like somebody's actual, you know, home answering machine.
[53:24.250 --> 53:25.190] [SPEAKER_10]: And where is this again?
[53:25.690 --> 53:29.970] [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, it's in somewhere in Oklahoma, wherever a 405 serves in Oklahoma.
[53:29.970 --> 53:32.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Is it by any chance a GTE local company?
[53:33.290 --> 53:34.410] [SPEAKER_17]: That I cannot say.
[53:34.630 --> 53:37.830] [SPEAKER_10]: I remember I dialed 411 from a payphone once and I got someone's house.
[53:38.270 --> 53:42.370] [SPEAKER_10]: And they had no idea how 411 routed to them, but, uh...
[53:42.370 --> 53:48.130] [SPEAKER_03]: Try calling the number again and talking to a live person if you can get one and ask them what their telephone number is and where they're located.
[53:49.250 --> 53:53.930] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, uh, one thing to bear in mind, uh, that's certainly, uh, something to try.
[53:54.210 --> 54:02.530] [SPEAKER_11]: But, uh, something to bear in mind is that usually prefixes, the first three digits of the phone number, prefixes that, uh, can begin with a zero or a one.
[54:02.530 --> 54:05.290] [SPEAKER_11]: You simply can't dial them on a normal telephone.
[54:05.450 --> 54:06.510] [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, they're system-wide codes.
[54:06.710 --> 54:10.410] [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, you can only reach them through, uh, well, R1 signaling in those days.
[54:10.770 --> 54:11.030] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[54:11.330 --> 54:12.870] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, they still exist now.
[54:13.050 --> 54:18.610] [SPEAKER_11]: Usually, uh, prefixes that begin with a zero or a one are usually reserved for DID trunks or...
[54:18.610 --> 54:19.230] [SPEAKER_11]: System-wide.
[54:19.450 --> 54:20.970] [SPEAKER_11]: ...or Watts lines or so on.
[54:22.190 --> 54:23.510] [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, another thing, too.
[54:23.650 --> 54:38.510] [SPEAKER_17]: I noticed, uh, even if they have a fellow who lives over in another area of Jersey up in Wayne, which is served by Little Falls, I noticed that I can call him from Passaic to Little Falls, his local call, but he can't call me.
[54:39.110 --> 54:43.070] [SPEAKER_17]: Is that evidence of, uh, old technology using a one-way trunk?
[54:44.150 --> 54:47.350] [SPEAKER_11]: I think, I think it's evidence of, uh...
[54:47.350 --> 54:48.530] [SPEAKER_17]: Or a programming error.
[54:48.790 --> 54:51.010] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it could certainly be a programming error.
[54:51.310 --> 55:03.370] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I think, uh, what it might be evidence of is, uh, routes that were set up, uh, in, in days of old, and there might, might have been new offices that came into existence since then.
[55:03.950 --> 55:07.210] [SPEAKER_11]: And routing tables on his switch may not have been modified since.
[55:08.490 --> 55:08.990] [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[55:09.190 --> 55:09.950] [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks very much for the call.
[55:10.070 --> 55:10.290] [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to take...
[55:10.290 --> 55:10.790] [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks a bunch.
[55:10.970 --> 55:12.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we're going to take one more.
[55:12.410 --> 55:13.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[55:13.690 --> 55:15.710] [SPEAKER_16]: Hi, um, three brief things.
[55:16.050 --> 55:33.750] [SPEAKER_16]: I was on the Upper East Side today, um, using payphones, and I noticed that, um, all of the payphones on the Upper East Side are NYNEX phones, and also, uh, a majority of them I put in the quarter, it comes back, I didn't get a dial tone, I do it three or four times,
[55:33.850 --> 55:36.550] [SPEAKER_16]: and like on the fifth time, um, it goes through.
[55:36.890 --> 55:42.710] [SPEAKER_16]: Any, uh, comments as to why those two, um, situations exist on the Upper East Side?
[55:42.830 --> 55:45.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Wait, was there a dial tone first, before you put the...
[55:45.270 --> 55:54.470] [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, yeah, there was a dial tone, but the quarter kept, you know, coming back four or five times, then it finally, um, went through, and they're all NYNEX phones on the Upper East Side.
[55:54.650 --> 56:06.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, NYNEX has decided that payphones are not, uh, profitable for them, and, uh, they are not exactly, uh, racing out to fix them when they break, which is why most of them seem to be broken, and why you see those stupid yellow phones everywhere that, uh,
[56:06.990 --> 56:09.530] [SPEAKER_10]: don't really, uh, I have, like, a personal thing against them.
[56:09.530 --> 56:12.530] [SPEAKER_16]: I thought it had something to do, like, with the neighborhood being affluent.
[56:12.530 --> 56:16.670] [SPEAKER_16]: Um, another thing, I, have you seen that TV commercial for Sunoco?
[56:17.290 --> 56:34.370] [SPEAKER_16]: They have an 800 number, 1-800-SUNOCO-1, and they want people to call in with suggestions, so hopefully listeners, like, will call in and say, lower your prices, break up the international corporate cartel, and things like that, but not to abuse the operator.
[56:34.370 --> 56:36.230] [SPEAKER_16]: I assumed it would be, like, a recording.
[56:36.230 --> 56:44.230] [SPEAKER_16]: I called once, but I got a live operator, and I was, like, too chicken to, uh, to goof on them, and I hung up, so hopefully other people can do it.
[56:44.850 --> 56:51.610] [SPEAKER_16]: Um, the last thing is about the MetroCard, um, apparatus on city buses.
[56:52.430 --> 56:55.470] [SPEAKER_16]: Briefly, um, is there any way of having fun with it?
[56:55.470 --> 57:07.810] [SPEAKER_16]: Are they all working, and, uh, are they, like, independent, independently powered and self-contained computers, or are they all linked, like, via modem or something to the main unit?
[57:08.570 --> 57:13.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's something that, uh, that we intend to pursue with, with, with much vigor.
[57:13.970 --> 57:14.330] [SPEAKER_10]: It's, uh...
[57:14.330 --> 57:21.390] [SPEAKER_16]: I've actually never used the MetroCard, and I live in the Bronx, and I've never seen anyone in the Bronx use it, but I'm thinking of, you know, doing it.
[57:21.550 --> 57:25.610] [SPEAKER_10]: See, I hate buses, but I will ride a bus just for that, just to see how the MetroCard ties into it.
[57:26.130 --> 57:28.990] [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, that's something that, uh, we intend to pursue, but we're out of time right now.
[57:29.230 --> 57:33.850] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, Bernie, take care, and, uh, you know, hope to listen to you again next week.
[57:33.990 --> 57:35.990] [SPEAKER_16]: Is, is Bernie going to be on during the marathon?
[57:36.270 --> 57:39.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, actually, we have a programming announcement to make, so I'll make that, uh...
[57:39.170 --> 57:40.450] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I don't want to get too psychic.
[57:40.630 --> 57:41.410] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, take care, bye.
[57:41.730 --> 57:48.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, the, the announcement is that we are preempted next week, and we are preempted the week after that, so you will not hear us at all during the marathon, apparently.
[57:55.070 --> 57:55.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie S.
[57:55.910 --> 57:57.730] [SPEAKER_10]: will, uh, will be that much closer to freedom.
[57:57.910 --> 58:02.570] [SPEAKER_10]: May 30th is the date we're still looking at, even though, uh, they haven't really responded officially yet.
[58:02.710 --> 58:04.610] [SPEAKER_10]: We're, we're still keeping our fingers crossed on that.
[58:04.910 --> 58:07.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie, can you quickly give out your address, and then, uh, we have to sign off.
[58:07.450 --> 58:29.070] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, uh, my real name is Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, and you can send me, uh, books or magazines, uh, at Bucks County Prison, and that's at 1730 South Easton Road, E-A-S-T-O-N, uh, number D13, D as David, that's my cell number, and that's in Doylestown,
[58:29.230 --> 58:34.490] [SPEAKER_03]: D-O-Y-L-E-S-T-O-W-N-P-A-1-8-9-0-1.
[58:34.490 --> 58:38.350] [SPEAKER_03]: And don't send more than five books or magazines at a time, or they won't let them in.
[58:38.510 --> 58:42.470] [SPEAKER_03]: And please write the words, reading materials, on the outside of the package.
[58:42.490 --> 58:45.050] [SPEAKER_03]: Anything everybody sends, I really appreciate it.
[58:45.090 --> 58:48.870] [SPEAKER_03]: I just sent out a batch of, uh, thank you letters this weekend, so people will be getting them.
[58:49.070 --> 58:51.170] [SPEAKER_10]: And please, uh, folks, no more TV sets.
[58:51.390 --> 58:53.890] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, he has enough of those, enough headaches associated with them.
[58:54.150 --> 58:58.510] [SPEAKER_10]: And if you want to send an email to Bernie S, BernieS at 2600.com, we will forward it to him.
[58:58.790 --> 59:00.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Again, thanks everybody for calling in and listening.
[59:00.790 --> 59:01.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie S will see you in three weeks.
[59:04.490 --> 59:06.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Make sure you contribute during the upcoming marathon.
[59:06.730 --> 59:09.010] [SPEAKER_10]: We'll talk to you again three weeks from tonight.
[59:09.310 --> 59:09.570] [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
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