Off The Hook - 1996-06-18

[00:02.720 --> 00:04.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: A special recorded announcement.
[00:17.820 --> 00:27.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: On Saturday night, June 22nd, starting at midnight, Labrish presents writer David Henderson, author of Excuse Me While I Kiss the Sky.
[00:36.040 --> 00:38.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: The music of Jimi Hendrix.
[00:38.560 --> 00:41.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right here on your station for entertainment information.
[00:42.940 --> 00:45.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: WBAI 99.5 FM.
[00:52.580 --> 00:58.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: On Saturday night, June 22nd, starting at midnight, the music of Jimi Hendrix.
[01:10.230 --> 01:12.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[01:12.790 --> 01:14.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's 8 o'clock on a Wednesday night.
[01:14.950 --> 01:16.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry, it's 8 o'clock on a Tuesday night.
[01:16.590 --> 01:18.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which means that we're in the right place.
[01:18.390 --> 01:19.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's time for Off the Hook.
[01:25.380 --> 01:27.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:27.880 --> 01:29.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:30.780 --> 01:32.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:33.460 --> 01:35.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now I can't make a pass.
[01:36.420 --> 01:38.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I couldn't get much worse.
[01:45.190 --> 01:46.030]  That's understood.
[01:46.030 --> 01:46.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm
[02:23.530 --> 02:53.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: sorry, I'm sorry.
[02:53.050 --> 02:56.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everybody out there, this is the program Off the Hook.
[02:56.930 --> 03:06.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Emmanuel Goldstein with you for the next hour, reviewing the week's activities in telecommunications, privacy, computers, Big Brother, hackers, that kind of thing.
[03:06.330 --> 03:07.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Fiberoptic, welcome.
[03:07.390 --> 03:07.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome.
[03:08.350 --> 03:10.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's been a momentous week, hasn't it?
[03:11.690 --> 03:13.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, in certain ways, I suppose.
[03:13.610 --> 03:15.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Of course, I wasn't able to attend SummerCon.
[03:15.750 --> 03:17.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well, I guess SummerCon...
[03:17.070 --> 03:17.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like some people.
[03:17.710 --> 03:19.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, SummerCon was something to attend.
[03:19.570 --> 03:23.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the Hacker Conference of the East Coast, which happens almost every year.
[03:23.870 --> 03:26.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then DEFCON happens on the West Coast later on.
[03:26.110 --> 03:30.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then there's something I'm going to be going to called Access All Areas, which is over there in Europe.
[03:32.130 --> 03:33.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that the British one?
[03:33.210 --> 03:34.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the British one, yeah.
[03:34.350 --> 03:35.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: In London, England.
[03:36.350 --> 03:38.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I'll be bringing back reports from there.
[03:39.570 --> 03:43.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: But while SummerCon was momentous, it was fun, you know, for hackers and things like that.
[03:43.790 --> 03:49.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: We got to meet many people from the fire departments and police departments of that city in Washington, D.C.
[03:49.490 --> 04:09.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, apart from that, it's been a momentous week in other ways, namely the Communications Decency Act, being given a frayed knot by the three justices of Philadelphia, who said that it's very vague, it's unconstitutional, and you just can't do it.
[04:09.450 --> 04:18.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's sort of what we've been saying all along, and I guess a bunch of us knew it was inevitable that sooner or later somebody would overturn it.
[04:20.510 --> 04:25.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, in this particular case, this particular case,
[04:28.930 --> 04:33.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: the justices were pretty vehement in their opposition to it.
[04:34.090 --> 04:35.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's a good thing.
[04:35.950 --> 04:40.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the more evil part of the government said that they had every intention of appealing.
[04:41.010 --> 04:45.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, well, that goes without saying that they will appeal, that they're going to try and...
[04:45.910 --> 04:48.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, did you hear Clinton's remarks about this?
[04:48.750 --> 04:51.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Basically, you know, I still think that children need to be protected.
[04:51.750 --> 04:58.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like, yeah, okay, that's what all of us are saying out here, is that children should not be protected, and that, you know, we're all for abusing children and things like that.
[04:58.790 --> 05:01.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's not exactly what it boils down to.
[05:01.870 --> 05:10.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a question of freedom of speech, something that has stood up for the last couple hundred years, and I think the Internet should definitely continue the tradition.
[05:11.510 --> 05:13.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: So that happened.
[05:13.910 --> 05:16.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: We sort of knew that was going to happen at some point.
[05:17.630 --> 05:33.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: The things, though, that continue to be ignored by most entities involve individuals, people like Kevin Mitnick, people like Bernie S., who continue to sit in prison and paying a price for something that nobody can put a finger on.
[05:33.870 --> 05:39.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And laying the foundation for many, many more people to do the exact same thing, to be just locked away.
[05:39.930 --> 05:57.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I was listening to the news today, and I heard how that swine, well, okay, I'll be fair here, that alleged swine that took part in the racial beating out on Long Island where this black kid was beaten to a pulp by a bunch of white police officers from New York.
[05:58.450 --> 06:06.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Their bail, or his bail, the one who was accused of it, his bail was just reduced to less than half of what Bernie S.'s bail is.
[06:07.150 --> 06:08.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Less than half.
[06:08.350 --> 06:12.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or was when he was able to even qualify for bail.
[06:12.990 --> 06:14.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: At one point, he was held without bail.
[06:14.050 --> 06:28.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, we're talking about a case where someone can practically kill somebody and be treated more civilly than somebody who is simply suspected of having a device which could maybe be used to make a free phone call.
[06:28.930 --> 06:37.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: What kind of society are we moving into where those kind of laws are actually allowed to be enforced or written or even considered?
[06:38.890 --> 06:46.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's something I think we just need to continue to spread so that people know that these things are happening and that they're just not right.
[06:47.430 --> 06:50.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, we'll be hearing from Bernie in just a little while updating us on his case.
[06:50.730 --> 06:51.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, he's still in prison.
[06:51.430 --> 06:52.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: He should be out by now.
[06:52.370 --> 06:55.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, as he mentioned last week, they're just not letting him out.
[06:56.010 --> 06:56.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: No particular reason.
[06:56.950 --> 06:58.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: They just aren't letting him out.
[06:58.510 --> 06:59.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just don't feel like it.
[06:59.390 --> 07:01.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just don't feel like it at this moment in time.
[07:02.090 --> 07:02.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unbelievable.
[07:02.630 --> 07:11.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: They sent an appeal or some sort of a letter to the judge saying, hey, look, this guy's supposed to be out and they're not letting him out and we'll see if the judge has any reaction whatsoever.
[07:12.890 --> 07:15.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, there's that...
[07:15.390 --> 07:18.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had a fun experience today with a payphone.
[07:19.390 --> 07:21.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have any experiences with payphones recently?
[07:21.610 --> 07:27.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, but I've been hearing lots of stories of payphones that, you know, these NYNEX Cocot phones Yeah.
[07:27.790 --> 07:31.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: that are becoming increasingly dubious and not letting you use your calling card.
[07:31.470 --> 07:32.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's one downstairs.
[07:32.530 --> 07:32.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, really?
[07:33.010 --> 07:33.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I was outside.
[07:33.790 --> 07:43.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: You see, what happened was I was outside in a parking space and it was earlier than I thought it was and I wasn't able to park legally because I had to, uh, you know...
[07:43.010 --> 07:44.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had to wait until it became legal.
[07:44.950 --> 07:46.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I had to sit in the car and I had to beep somebody.
[07:46.910 --> 07:50.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wanted to beep somebody so I could make arrangements to do something else.
[07:50.950 --> 07:56.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so I called my 950 number, which I've had for years and it's one thing that I depend upon.
[07:57.030 --> 08:00.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, get my tone, enter the number to beep somebody and then it connects.
[08:01.190 --> 08:01.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right?
[08:01.470 --> 08:05.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: It connects to the beeper and I start entering the numbers.
[08:05.270 --> 08:10.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I get two numbers into it and then that stupid recording comes on saying no additional dialing allowed.
[08:11.010 --> 08:12.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm like, oh, great.
[08:12.510 --> 08:18.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now I've paid for the call and I've sent some cryptic two-letter or two-number beep to somebody.
[08:18.330 --> 08:19.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're not going to know what that means.
[08:20.550 --> 08:22.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it was extremely frustrating.
[08:22.570 --> 08:25.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had to eventually call somebody else and have them beep the person I wanted to beep.
[08:25.830 --> 08:27.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: You should have tried the trick we found in Chinatown.
[08:27.990 --> 08:30.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I did try the Chinatown trick and guess what?
[08:30.150 --> 08:31.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Chinatown trick does not work anymore.
[08:32.050 --> 08:32.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[08:32.990 --> 08:36.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was carrier access code prefaced before...
[08:36.190 --> 08:36.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[08:36.990 --> 08:37.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Before...
[08:37.510 --> 08:38.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Claude, do you want something?
[08:38.650 --> 08:41.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: You keep wandering in here with a panicked look on your face.
[08:41.750 --> 08:42.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, Claude, what's up?
[08:42.890 --> 08:45.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, something that I discovered recently.
[08:45.470 --> 08:45.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[08:46.330 --> 08:54.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was speaking from a NYNEX payphone and the person I talked with said, let me call you back.
[08:54.650 --> 08:55.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: He did.
[08:55.590 --> 08:57.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was able to hear him clear as a bell.
[08:57.610 --> 08:59.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: He could not hear me.
[08:59.130 --> 09:04.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's an interesting way to disallow incoming calls while still receiving a quarter.
[09:04.510 --> 09:06.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: You sure the mouthpiece wasn't broken?
[09:06.650 --> 09:07.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, his mouth...
[09:07.610 --> 09:08.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: The earpiece, you mean?
[09:08.630 --> 09:10.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but was your mouthpiece completely broken, maybe?
[09:11.010 --> 09:12.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: I talked with him previously.
[09:12.390 --> 09:13.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, on the same phone?
[09:13.290 --> 09:14.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: On the same phone.
[09:14.150 --> 09:14.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's interesting.
[09:14.830 --> 09:15.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[09:15.150 --> 09:15.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: That is very interesting.
[09:16.310 --> 09:18.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, thank you for bringing that to our attention.
[09:18.110 --> 09:19.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have you ever heard anything like that, Fiber?
[09:19.350 --> 09:20.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I wouldn't put it past them.
[09:21.070 --> 09:22.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: They shut off the mouthpiece.
[09:22.350 --> 09:23.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they shut off the buttons.
[09:23.390 --> 09:24.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: They shut off everything else.
[09:24.310 --> 09:28.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hear they're going to introduce electric shocks for people who insist on continuing to...
[09:28.410 --> 09:31.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: My favorite is the muted ringer.
[09:31.490 --> 09:32.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: The muted ringer?
[09:32.430 --> 09:34.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that's where it's ringing, but you don't know it's ringing.
[09:34.190 --> 09:37.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so you just kind of like pick it up, hoping the person's going to be there.
[09:37.450 --> 09:39.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And hoping they don't call at the moment that you pick up.
[09:39.350 --> 09:39.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[09:40.950 --> 09:42.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's really getting ridiculous.
[09:42.270 --> 09:46.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you know, it caused me to commit a sin.
[09:46.270 --> 09:47.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It caused me to lie.
[09:47.930 --> 09:48.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: What'd you do?
[09:49.850 --> 09:52.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you see, the thing is, I connected to something, right?
[09:53.290 --> 09:56.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: And my call was not all it could have been because it didn't...
[09:56.670 --> 09:58.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wasn't able to beep the person like I wanted to beep them.
[09:59.890 --> 10:01.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I should get credit for that, shouldn't I?
[10:01.750 --> 10:02.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: You 2-1-1'd it.
[10:02.690 --> 10:05.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I did 2-1-1 it, but, you know, 2-1-1 gave me a reorder.
[10:05.590 --> 10:05.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
[10:05.910 --> 10:07.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I wasn't able to 2-1-1 it.
[10:07.550 --> 10:10.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had to 6-1-1 over to repair.
[10:11.270 --> 10:13.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which, by the way, I can't understand repair now.
[10:13.150 --> 10:17.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: You dial 6-1-1 and it gives you the same menu that your business office gives you.
[10:17.530 --> 10:21.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you have to tell it that you want to report a phone out of order when you dial 6-1-1.
[10:22.110 --> 10:24.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like, what else are you going to be calling 6-1-1 for?
[10:24.690 --> 10:25.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, you have to go through all that.
[10:26.030 --> 10:28.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, the quickest thing is to hit zero a couple of times and eventually you get somebody.
[10:29.410 --> 10:31.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I explained to them, look, this phone isn't working.
[10:32.050 --> 10:33.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's cutting off touchstones.
[10:33.590 --> 10:35.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they treated it like it was a problem with the phone.
[10:35.790 --> 10:36.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I tried to explain to them.
[10:36.670 --> 10:37.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a recording.
[10:37.470 --> 10:39.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's saying that I'm not allowed to dial anymore.
[10:40.070 --> 10:42.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's really a policy thing more than a technical thing.
[10:42.710 --> 10:48.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they still said they would have the problem cleared by tomorrow at 9 a.m or 5 p.m So, I'd love to see what they try to do.
[10:49.370 --> 10:52.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: But then, yes, I continued to try to get credit because I was pretty upset at this point.
[10:53.050 --> 10:55.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so, I called the operator.
[10:55.990 --> 11:01.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: The operator is the person that you're supposed to, you know, call whenever you really have a big problem.
[11:02.070 --> 11:03.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they can transfer you to credit.
[11:03.210 --> 11:04.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they didn't believe I couldn't get through the credit myself.
[11:06.590 --> 11:08.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, what I did was I called the operator.
[11:08.750 --> 11:10.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I said, yeah, I can't get through the credit.
[11:10.170 --> 11:10.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: And she said, oh, really?
[11:10.950 --> 11:11.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, really?
[11:11.610 --> 11:12.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't get through the credit.
[11:12.530 --> 11:18.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, this is a big ruse that I pull every day so I can get to talk to an operator And I'm tired of transferring equipment.
[11:18.890 --> 11:22.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: So please just transfer me over to 211 or whatever.
[11:22.290 --> 11:24.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: So eventually I got over to the credit operator.
[11:25.010 --> 11:33.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I was explaining to them, you know, I called my toll-free long-distance access number.
[11:33.070 --> 11:34.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then I placed the call.
[11:34.230 --> 11:38.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's when the NYNEX phone decided to cancel its contract on me.
[11:39.290 --> 11:43.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, the long-distance company isn't supposed to give me credit.
[11:43.130 --> 11:45.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, I didn't place the call using NYNEX.
[11:45.710 --> 11:48.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to get credit here.
[11:48.310 --> 11:51.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't ask the long-distance company for credit because they did what they were supposed to do.
[11:51.510 --> 11:54.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's kind of hard to ask NYNEX for credit because I didn't place a call through NYNEX.
[11:54.990 --> 11:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: They just simply messed up my long-distance access call.
[12:00.010 --> 12:01.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was a silence.
[12:01.250 --> 12:06.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: And eventually she said, So how much money did you put into the phone?
[12:08.170 --> 12:09.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: She didn't get it at all.
[12:09.230 --> 12:13.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I sat there for a second realizing that this could turn into an hour-long discussion.
[12:13.690 --> 12:15.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or I could just simply end it quickly.
[12:16.110 --> 12:17.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so I said 75 cents.
[12:17.810 --> 12:22.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: I said 75 cents because I figured my time is worth something, too.
[12:22.790 --> 12:25.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: They bill you if, say, you balance a check, for instance.
[12:25.530 --> 12:27.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: They just have this fee, you know, $15 fee.
[12:27.930 --> 12:28.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what it costs.
[12:28.870 --> 12:30.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: No one knows why it costs that.
[12:30.230 --> 12:30.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's $15.
[12:31.290 --> 12:36.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you pay late, 1.5% finance charge.
[12:36.350 --> 12:37.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's just what they charge.
[12:37.830 --> 12:40.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: And plus what they charge for phone calls, you know.
[12:40.270 --> 12:41.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why does it cost a quarter?
[12:41.290 --> 12:41.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[12:41.730 --> 12:42.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just costs a quarter.
[12:42.410 --> 12:43.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what they say.
[12:43.150 --> 12:43.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what we pay.
[12:44.450 --> 12:47.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I decided I'm going to have my own rate structure now, too.
[12:47.910 --> 12:54.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: If they, you know, foul up my particular plans and my calls, they disconnect me, that's going to be a quarter right there, okay?
[12:54.910 --> 13:00.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every time I get disconnected, even if it's to a service representative, $0.25, okay?
[13:01.710 --> 13:09.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, that's payable in many different ways, either by getting credit on a particular call, getting credit on a service, saying my line is out.
[13:09.630 --> 13:11.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm collecting $0.25, one way or another.
[13:12.570 --> 13:19.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I suggest people start implementing this policy by themselves because that's really the only way you're going to get any justice.
[13:19.530 --> 13:24.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Had I stuck to the rules and played by the way I'm supposed to play, I'd still be on the phone now with them.
[13:24.910 --> 13:26.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Trying to explain what it was I was trying to do.
[13:26.890 --> 13:33.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think 9x really needs to wake up and start disassembling some of these silly policies they're implementing.
[13:33.630 --> 13:39.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, on the corner that that payphone was at, it didn't stop drugs, I can tell you that right now.
[13:39.370 --> 13:43.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's their stupid reason for having a phone that cuts off touchstones after a certain amount of time.
[13:43.450 --> 13:43.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Guess what?
[13:43.950 --> 13:45.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: People are still selling drugs without touchstones.
[13:45.770 --> 13:47.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think you need touchstones to sell drugs.
[13:47.910 --> 13:48.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they have cellular phones.
[13:48.950 --> 13:50.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have cellular phones, too.
[13:50.290 --> 13:52.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm sure they'll try to do something to those.
[13:52.650 --> 13:55.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it's, you know, that's not going to affect anything.
[13:56.010 --> 13:57.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: All it's going to do is inconvenience people.
[13:57.990 --> 13:59.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's going to make me complain a lot.
[14:01.430 --> 14:03.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, that's the latest on that.
[14:04.190 --> 14:05.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't have that kind of problem, do you?
[14:06.070 --> 14:07.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: You like the yellow phones?
[14:07.810 --> 14:09.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: You use your 9x call card?
[14:09.370 --> 14:12.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: In my neighborhood, in the East Village, they still have...
[14:12.810 --> 14:17.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't run into very many, if any, 9x call cards as of yet.
[14:19.190 --> 14:24.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in most circumstances, if I know I'm going to be on the phone, less than ten minutes.
[14:24.150 --> 14:27.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because, of course, even if you pay for a call, the yellow phones cut you off after ten minutes.
[14:27.970 --> 14:29.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you make a calling card call.
[14:29.790 --> 14:32.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I like the yellow phones because no one ever uses them.
[14:32.850 --> 14:33.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're always free.
[14:33.870 --> 14:35.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're getting pretty ramshackle looking now, have you noticed?
[14:36.230 --> 14:37.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they're getting kind of beat up.
[14:37.310 --> 14:38.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're getting very beat up.
[14:38.450 --> 14:39.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think I know why.
[14:39.290 --> 14:40.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because I see people beating them up all the time.
[14:41.090 --> 14:47.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's very frustrating when they, you know, when they don't allow you to do things that you want to do.
[14:47.830 --> 14:48.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[14:48.450 --> 14:52.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I've never had a successful call experience with a yellow phone.
[14:52.950 --> 14:56.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, I even borrowed a card from somebody once to access my 950 number.
[14:56.770 --> 15:02.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thinking that maybe, okay, if I have a card, maybe then it'll let me make a toll-free call to a 950 number.
[15:02.870 --> 15:03.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[15:03.290 --> 15:04.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it said, even with...
[15:04.830 --> 15:06.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: How much do those cards have on them?
[15:06.230 --> 15:06.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[15:06.910 --> 15:08.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've still, to this day, have not used a change cord.
[15:09.310 --> 15:10.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought you had one.
[15:10.410 --> 15:10.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[15:10.950 --> 15:12.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have AT&T calling cards.
[15:12.670 --> 15:12.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[15:13.010 --> 15:13.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, you don't need a card.
[15:13.390 --> 15:14.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've never actually used a change cord.
[15:14.550 --> 15:16.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, let's say they have, what, $5 on them or something like that.
[15:16.610 --> 15:16.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[15:16.690 --> 15:17.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't matter how much they have.
[15:17.990 --> 15:21.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you try dialing a 950, they'll say you don't have enough money to make this call.
[15:21.990 --> 15:24.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: No money on earth will allow them to make that call.
[15:25.030 --> 15:31.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's terrible because half the phones in the city now don't allow the same access that the phones used to allow.
[15:32.110 --> 15:33.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just not right.
[15:36.230 --> 15:37.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which is something that we used to pay for.
[15:37.750 --> 15:39.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, why can't a payphone take an incoming call?
[15:39.650 --> 15:41.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: What is the big problem with that?
[15:41.470 --> 15:43.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you're standing on a street corner.
[15:43.670 --> 15:45.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: You want somebody to call you back.
[15:45.310 --> 15:45.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: You beep somebody.
[15:46.050 --> 15:47.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: You call somebody at your house.
[15:47.070 --> 15:48.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: You want them to call you back.
[15:48.030 --> 15:49.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't want to be putting quarters in all the time.
[15:49.930 --> 15:50.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Could that be it?
[15:50.850 --> 15:57.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Could it be that they just want you to keep putting quarters in or maybe have the calling card fees pile up and make that the only way you can make a phone call?
[15:58.030 --> 15:59.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, what would you rather make?
[15:59.330 --> 16:02.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: $0.25 and then a nickel for each additional...
[16:02.630 --> 16:03.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: What is it?
[16:03.330 --> 16:03.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Three to five?
[16:03.770 --> 16:04.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they changed it.
[16:04.350 --> 16:05.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not even five minutes anymore.
[16:05.570 --> 16:06.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's three minutes.
[16:06.310 --> 16:07.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a nickel for three minutes.
[16:07.650 --> 16:10.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or would you rather just make $0.10.6 forever?
[16:11.070 --> 16:14.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, $0.10.6 forever, I think, is probably better.
[16:14.990 --> 16:15.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a better deal.
[16:15.690 --> 16:18.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it is a better deal, and that's the deal that you get from your house if you call someplace.
[16:18.990 --> 16:20.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: $0.10.6 and you can stay on as long as you want.
[16:20.950 --> 16:21.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: They don't want that.
[16:21.490 --> 16:22.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: They want more money.
[16:22.270 --> 16:26.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, the thing is, people will not stand on street corners forever talking on a payphone.
[16:26.850 --> 16:31.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not like they're going to cut off the revenue to the phone company by taking an incoming call every now and then.
[16:31.810 --> 16:39.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, if phones took incoming calls, I would be making more phone calls on those phones, calling people, getting them to call me back.
[16:39.570 --> 16:47.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they tend to make more money on that first minute than anything else, you know, the first quarter or whatever you put into the phone.
[16:47.350 --> 16:48.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think a lot more people would be doing that as well.
[16:49.170 --> 16:52.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think 9x has this street understanding of the way things are.
[16:52.990 --> 16:54.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, they certainly don't.
[16:54.670 --> 17:03.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: It also, it's not something mechanical that makes the phone break, taking an incoming call, whereas putting money in is a mechanical feature that eventually, you know, fouls up.
[17:04.090 --> 17:09.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, you have to service that kind of thing, which is why a lot of phones are being converted to non-coin.
[17:09.890 --> 17:15.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, payphones also eventually fill up, and they have to pay people to come around and collect all the money out of them.
[17:15.650 --> 17:15.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[17:15.970 --> 17:17.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we have Bernie S.
[17:17.410 --> 17:18.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, here he is.
[17:18.350 --> 17:20.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: AT &T has me collect calls from...
[17:20.090 --> 17:21.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bernie S.
[17:21.510 --> 17:24.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...at the Bucks County Correctional Facility.
[17:25.110 --> 17:27.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: To receive this call, hang up.
[17:28.270 --> 17:34.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you accept this call, do not use three-way or call waiting features, or you will be disconnected.
[17:34.770 --> 17:37.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: To accept this call, dial one now.
[17:39.370 --> 17:40.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[17:41.090 --> 17:42.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're right, you do have Bernie S.
[17:42.890 --> 17:43.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, Bernie S.
[17:43.930 --> 17:48.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: is on the line with us, live from Bucks County Prison in Scenic, Pennsylvania.
[17:48.650 --> 17:49.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You got the right prison this time.
[17:49.770 --> 17:50.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: This time I got the right prison, yes.
[17:51.090 --> 18:04.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, we were just mentioning the fact a few minutes ago that the suspect in the racial beating that took place, I don't know if you heard about this, on Long Island just had his bail reduced today to $100,000, which I think is...
[18:04.930 --> 18:06.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yours was $250,000 at one point.
[18:06.710 --> 18:08.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, mine was two and a half times that.
[18:08.610 --> 18:08.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[18:09.170 --> 18:12.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: We were just wondering how much more of a threat to society you are over there.
[18:12.490 --> 18:15.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, I mean, I think the district attorney had it right.
[18:15.570 --> 18:21.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: You just can't have people going around removing batteries from their radio shack touchdown dialers.
[18:21.190 --> 18:24.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's a heinous crime, and it's just uncalled for.
[18:24.890 --> 18:26.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: You just can't have people out there doing that.
[18:26.730 --> 18:27.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Totally.
[18:27.490 --> 18:32.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, now, update us on your situation, and we're going to talk about the CDA a little bit and take some phone calls.
[18:33.090 --> 18:34.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, obviously I'm still incarcerated.
[18:34.770 --> 18:36.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think this is the first program I've called into
[18:42.490 --> 18:48.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: four different prisons, and still no word as to when I'll be released.
[18:48.350 --> 18:51.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I am technically eligible for parole.
[18:52.530 --> 18:54.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: However, I've not been reviewed yet.
[18:55.490 --> 19:03.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's pretty frustrating knowing that you could be out, and the rules say I could be out, and no one has talked to me about being released.
[19:04.490 --> 19:09.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, I've had my lawyer and, uh, friends and family call the appropriate authorities.
[19:09.670 --> 19:15.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: It seems to be a big finger-pointing game, and no one wants to accept the responsibility to interview me.
[19:15.550 --> 19:17.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, I'm not giving up.
[19:17.390 --> 19:18.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to keep trying.
[19:18.670 --> 19:23.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, the judge was sent a letter last week, uh, telling him about the problem.
[19:23.750 --> 19:24.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did he respond?
[19:24.770 --> 19:25.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: He got the letter.
[19:25.950 --> 19:27.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know whether he responded yet.
[19:27.630 --> 19:30.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll be calling my lawyer tomorrow to find out if there's been an answer yet.
[19:30.870 --> 19:40.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: The problem was, uh, in Northampton County, the prison authorities, uh, miscalculated the, uh, remaining time left in my sentence by, uh, 35 days.
[19:41.210 --> 19:43.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: They, uh, didn't credit me for 35 days.
[19:43.230 --> 19:55.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: The judge said I, uh, was entitled to for time I'd served last year, uh, on a charge that was subsequently dropped when the, uh, Secret Service decided to pick up the case for their own, uh, personal reasons, I guess.
[19:55.590 --> 20:03.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but this, uh, person in Northampton County just refused to, uh, he admitted there was an error in the calculation of the sentence, but he refused to correct it.
[20:03.550 --> 20:11.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, all we can do is bring that to the judge's attention and hope that he can order this, uh, this fellow to, uh, credit me for the proper amount of time.
[20:11.510 --> 20:15.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: By the time it gets straightened down, it'll be a moot point anyway because there's 35 days we'll have come and gone.
[20:15.870 --> 20:22.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've already been here, um, about two weeks past my parole eligibility day without being interviewed for parole yet.
[20:22.590 --> 20:25.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, by the time it gets resolved, it won't make any difference anyway, I guess.
[20:26.650 --> 20:32.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so you'll have, uh, some sort of an update tomorrow and we'll continue to update people on the Internet and, uh, things like that.
[20:32.630 --> 20:42.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to be, uh, having a couple of retrospective shows over the next couple of weeks, so we won't be able to hear from you live, but if there's any update, we'll be able to, uh, um, we'll be able to tell people.
[20:42.390 --> 20:43.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Does that mean it's a rerun?
[20:43.590 --> 20:44.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, pretty much, yeah.
[20:44.430 --> 20:45.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, that's, that's, that's the nice way of saying it.
[20:47.590 --> 20:48.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Retrospective, we like to say.
[20:48.690 --> 21:06.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: The good news, I think, EBA, and, uh, the way, uh, that recent Third Circuit federal decision, uh, um, is good news for me, well, it's good news for everybody, really, but, uh, except for the, uh, religious right, I guess, for those who were in majority censorship.
[21:06.820 --> 21:26.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, my federal appeal on the, uh, the new statute that I was charged with last year, the new federal statute I was charged with, for people who aren't familiar with my case, is, uh, makes it a federal felony to possess hardware or software that can modify a telecommunications instrument for the unauthorized access to telecommunications services.
[21:27.680 --> 21:31.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Unfortunately, the, uh, the wording in that statute is, uh, rather vague.
[21:31.800 --> 21:47.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't specify what a telecommunications instrument, um, what, what hardware or software they're talking about, what, uh, what unauthorized use or unauthorized access pertains to, who, who is deemed to, uh, uh, say what's authorized or not authorized.
[21:47.600 --> 21:48.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: None of these things are defined.
[21:49.300 --> 21:51.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, I've challenged that new statute.
[21:52.140 --> 21:56.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Being the first person in the country charged with it, I was given the opportunity to challenge it with my plea agreement.
[21:57.220 --> 22:00.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm challenging that the statute is unconstitutionally vague.
[22:01.120 --> 22:03.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't define the terms in the wording of the statute.
[22:04.480 --> 22:09.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, the reason that's unconstitutional is that the 14th Amendment grants us, uh, due process.
[22:10.460 --> 22:14.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: And to have a vague law violates our due process rights.
[22:14.620 --> 22:26.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: The, uh, judges in the Third, Third Federal Circuit last week decided that the term indecent was also unconstitutionally vague, vague, um, under, uh, the void for vagueness doctrine embodied by the 14th Amendment.
[22:27.120 --> 22:35.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, this is good news that I have now, uh, a very recent case law which is binding since it's also in the same, same, uh, federal circuit for the Third Circuit.
[22:35.820 --> 22:38.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, I can use this in my upcoming federal appeal.
[22:39.120 --> 22:42.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And hopefully, uh, that will, that won't fall upon deaf ears.
[22:42.580 --> 22:50.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: One thing which, which I've noticed is that there's a lot of, uh, back-slapping congratulations going around with various, uh, civil liberties groups.
[22:50.220 --> 23:02.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, I really think that these groups have failed us by ignoring your case and by ignoring the fact that there are people in prison right now, uh, because of, of weirdly worded federal laws.
[23:02.900 --> 23:05.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that does deserve a lot of attention.
[23:05.360 --> 23:09.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're talking about hypothetical cases where somebody could go to prison if this happens.
[23:09.760 --> 23:10.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, guess what, folks?
[23:10.760 --> 23:11.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's already happening.
[23:11.700 --> 23:13.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's already happened to a bunch of people.
[23:13.760 --> 23:25.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I, I, I think that they're guilty of, of, uh, turning their attention towards those things that get you headlines, uh, at the expense of individuals who might not, uh, get as much attention.
[23:27.000 --> 23:28.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I couldn't agree with you more.
[23:29.620 --> 23:34.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, um, fiber, any views on the CDA that, uh, we haven't already discussed?
[23:35.120 --> 23:39.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, uh, I'm, I'm sure it's gonna be back, uh, like with, with everything.
[23:39.580 --> 23:39.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[23:39.980 --> 23:48.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like when we saw the, uh, the FBI's digital telephony proposal went away and then simply got snuck in when nobody was really paying attention.
[23:49.340 --> 23:54.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure with all the, all the fanfare and stuff, they might try to sneak in some other thing that we're not looking for.
[23:54.780 --> 23:55.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: clipper chip.
[23:55.880 --> 23:57.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that might, that might be back.
[23:57.500 --> 23:57.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: V chip.
[23:58.560 --> 24:00.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: All the chips are, Yeah.
[24:00.520 --> 24:02.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: are falling our way.
[24:03.460 --> 24:07.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, yeah, it's, it's something that I think is, uh, almost inevitable.
[24:08.340 --> 24:12.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a, it's a negative thing, but the way, the way we seem to be moving, it seems almost inevitable.
[24:13.520 --> 24:14.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[24:14.460 --> 24:17.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-279-3400 is our, our telephone number.
[24:17.280 --> 24:18.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie S, anything else happened to you this week?
[24:24.360 --> 24:24.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[24:24.900 --> 24:28.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know whether it was bacteria or what, but it was a mild case of food poised.
[24:28.300 --> 24:32.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: I did notice something interesting a few weeks ago here outside the, uh, the chow hall.
[24:33.300 --> 24:39.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, there's a hallway where we'll be three, three times a day we're, we're herded out of the cell block.
[24:40.160 --> 24:42.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's about 90-odd inmates in this particular cell block.
[24:43.260 --> 24:50.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: And a different times a day we're led down to the, uh, to chow hall to, uh, to keep the daily gruel, as it were.
[24:50.480 --> 24:59.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, I noticed a few weeks ago that there's a, a very large pipe right outside the entrance that we've done and talked all that was leaking a brown liquid all over the floor in a small puddle.
[25:00.080 --> 25:02.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I asked one of the guards, what is this?
[25:02.680 --> 25:13.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: He said it was, uh, uh, well, I probably can't say that on, uh, radio, but he described it with a, uh, the term, uh, composed of four letters.
[25:13.560 --> 25:15.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure we can figure it out, yeah.
[25:15.760 --> 25:18.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, human instrument basically described the four letters.
[25:18.660 --> 25:19.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: He said that's what it was.
[25:19.480 --> 25:20.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was a brown substance.
[25:20.960 --> 25:29.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, this leak still hasn't been fixed, but it just, it just drips all day long under this pile on the floor.
[25:29.740 --> 25:33.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they mop it up occasionally and, uh, walk through it.
[25:33.340 --> 25:34.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really a mess.
[25:34.140 --> 25:36.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you think after weeks and weeks that somebody would fix this problem.
[25:37.240 --> 25:40.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this is, again, right outside where people eat and prepare food.
[25:41.440 --> 25:45.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess it's sort of a reminder, you know, of some sort.
[25:45.980 --> 25:46.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[25:46.780 --> 25:51.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, uh, that's a real, uh, real stirring image to think of.
[25:52.340 --> 25:53.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: We don't have any phone calls.
[25:53.740 --> 25:54.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: What happened?
[25:54.200 --> 25:55.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is our phone line broken?
[25:55.240 --> 25:56.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: I gave out the phone, didn't I?
[25:56.600 --> 25:58.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-279-3400.
[25:58.320 --> 25:59.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, that's our phone number.
[25:59.280 --> 26:00.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're taking phone calls.
[26:00.520 --> 26:02.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And a single line has lived.
[26:02.260 --> 26:03.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's never happened before.
[26:18.020 --> 26:19.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: We just got three calls at once come in.
[26:20.540 --> 26:21.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not sure what's happening here.
[26:21.660 --> 26:22.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, now we're up to four.
[26:22.580 --> 26:24.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to wait until we have a bingo here.
[26:24.180 --> 26:25.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, uh, a few more people call in.
[26:26.300 --> 26:27.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what, uh, what's going on out there.
[26:27.820 --> 26:31.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: People falling asleep or something, but usually when we give the phone number out, the phones are ringing immediately.
[26:32.060 --> 26:34.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, it's usually people waiting since the show begins.
[26:34.760 --> 26:37.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: People that camp out from the morning, let the phone ring all day long.
[26:38.040 --> 26:40.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, it keeps disconnecting, but they keep trying again.
[26:40.800 --> 26:42.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, let's see, uh, let's see who's out there.
[26:42.620 --> 26:43.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[26:43.180 --> 26:43.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[26:45.020 --> 26:45.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[26:45.640 --> 26:46.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[26:46.740 --> 26:46.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[26:47.140 --> 26:47.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, go ahead.
[26:47.840 --> 26:48.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, how you doing?
[26:48.640 --> 26:48.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[26:49.160 --> 26:50.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I just wanted to say a couple things.
[26:51.260 --> 26:53.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, one of the things is I've done some time.
[26:53.380 --> 26:55.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not Mr. Hardman or something, but I've done some time.
[26:55.940 --> 27:07.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, in, uh, in situations like things dripping or, you know, a lot of the things you've mentioned, you know, and I'm, I'm not attacking you, uh, or just par for the course.
[27:07.380 --> 27:08.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just what goes on.
[27:09.220 --> 27:11.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, prisoners, uh, generally like that.
[27:11.920 --> 27:12.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[27:12.360 --> 27:13.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: No question about it.
[27:13.180 --> 27:14.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's just unfortunate.
[27:14.140 --> 27:19.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, it seems at some, uh, at many points that they just, they try to really break your spirit.
[27:19.240 --> 27:20.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, Bernie, you would know that.
[27:20.660 --> 27:23.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's, it's like a Kafka-esque type of a thing where they're trying to break you.
[27:23.740 --> 27:24.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's part of it.
[27:25.080 --> 27:27.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, another thing is the bail issues.
[27:27.980 --> 27:41.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, just, in all fairness, uh, the guy who did the, uh, the, the cop who beat this guy, you know, beat this kid, uh, probably doesn't have any substantial past record.
[27:42.660 --> 27:45.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Bernie S didn't have, uh, much of a record either.
[27:45.500 --> 27:46.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: He didn't.
[27:46.120 --> 27:46.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[27:46.300 --> 27:48.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I had the traffic citations on my record, but that was it.
[27:49.040 --> 27:50.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, that's nothing.
[27:50.280 --> 27:58.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I have been following, you know, following the show, uh, before Bernie S's, uh, you know, we'll call him the excursion for now.
[27:58.340 --> 28:00.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: And following Bernie S's, uh, ordeal and stuff.
[28:00.880 --> 28:02.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, yeah, I didn't realize.
[28:03.820 --> 28:04.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't realize.
[28:04.640 --> 28:08.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, uh, no history of violence or, uh, anything of that nature that endangered any person.
[28:08.920 --> 28:14.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's gotta be more that you, what you're messing with is a corporate pig than, than, you know, just prosecutors.
[28:14.360 --> 28:16.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's probably, uh, that's probably it right there.
[28:16.640 --> 28:21.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's one thing to beat up a black man, and some people, unfortunately, think that's nothing, or it should be done.
[28:22.040 --> 28:22.360]  Mm-hmm.
[28:22.440 --> 28:23.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's wrong.
[28:23.500 --> 28:26.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, to mess with the corporate pig isn't wrong.
[28:27.240 --> 28:27.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, right.
[28:27.960 --> 28:28.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well...
[28:28.280 --> 28:31.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, uh, that's probably what the price you're paying.
[28:31.220 --> 28:34.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not, it's not even a question of messing with the corporate pig.
[28:34.280 --> 28:42.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's, it's, it's more that they see your natural actions as possibly, uh, something that will, that'll be bad for them at some point.
[28:42.780 --> 28:43.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[28:43.340 --> 28:51.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's, it's, Bernie wasn't going around, uh, defrauding big corporations, or, or, uh, doing things that would directly hurt them.
[28:51.600 --> 28:56.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, the knowledge that he had might be used by somebody in the future in a bad way.
[28:57.080 --> 28:58.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, that's, that's quite possible.
[28:58.560 --> 29:00.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, again, it's, you know, it's information.
[29:01.200 --> 29:06.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was not alleged to have committed any fraud or done anything illegal with, with what I possess.
[29:06.580 --> 29:09.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: What I possess is easily available at any, uh, I know.
[29:09.960 --> 29:12.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know that, like I said, I've followed pretty closely.
[29:13.140 --> 29:16.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know what's, you know, what's in the books and stuff and, and what they're saying.
[29:16.680 --> 29:26.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I can, not only do I have to go by, I could stay home, yet the people in Radio Shack that will sell me a device, uh, do possess it today.
[29:26.540 --> 29:30.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, that never sat with me properly.
[29:30.380 --> 29:36.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, one other thing, uh, it's a point of law, again, that one of the most, uh, powerful things in American law is the grand jury.
[29:37.080 --> 29:39.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, how they can do secret indictments and things like that.
[29:39.240 --> 29:42.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: But another very powerful thing is the parole board.
[29:42.440 --> 29:47.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have the power to say, after you've done your, you do somewhere between your minimum and your maximum.
[29:48.040 --> 29:52.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: They decide where, in between that minimum and maximum, they let you go.
[29:52.560 --> 29:54.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm waiting to go before them right now.
[29:54.720 --> 29:55.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[29:55.300 --> 30:02.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they can, they can say yes, they can say no, they can, not only that, they don't have to come see you the minute you're eligible.
[30:02.720 --> 30:03.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is...
[30:03.320 --> 30:05.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or do they have to give a reason for denying your parole?
[30:05.560 --> 30:05.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[30:05.820 --> 30:06.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is lame.
[30:07.640 --> 30:08.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they give you a reason.
[30:09.340 --> 30:09.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[30:09.860 --> 30:11.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they haven't given a reason yet.
[30:11.920 --> 30:12.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: No?
[30:12.420 --> 30:13.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: In this particular case.
[30:13.160 --> 30:14.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you should compel them for it.
[30:14.920 --> 30:22.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's the other thing, you know, it's the more you push them, sometimes the harder it is to get the end result you want.
[30:22.860 --> 30:27.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now, you know, it's not that I would sell out like that, but you know.
[30:28.920 --> 30:31.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, guys, I think you're doing a great job.
[30:31.460 --> 30:32.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Have a great show.
[30:32.120 --> 30:33.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel, Bernie, hang in there.
[30:33.280 --> 30:33.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[30:34.060 --> 30:38.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And Fiber, we appreciate you sitting in, and all of the above.
[30:38.800 --> 30:39.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[30:39.560 --> 30:41.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel, thanks again for what you're doing.
[30:41.440 --> 30:42.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, take care.
[30:42.240 --> 30:42.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Take care.
[30:42.500 --> 30:42.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bye-bye.
[30:43.780 --> 30:45.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take another phone call.
[30:45.260 --> 30:46.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[30:46.720 --> 30:47.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Emmanuel, how are you?
[30:48.100 --> 30:48.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good, how are you?
[30:48.820 --> 30:50.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I got a question for you.
[30:50.840 --> 30:51.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[30:51.100 --> 30:52.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: The time that Bernie S.
[30:52.120 --> 31:01.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: has served, okay, do you think that, like, you know, whatever parole board or whatever would give him credit for that?
[31:01.220 --> 31:03.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Bernie, you could probably best answer that.
[31:03.920 --> 31:04.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's, uh...
[31:04.700 --> 31:05.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's already been decided.
[31:05.700 --> 31:20.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: The issue at hand at this time is, uh, I was arrested last year, um, by local police in Delaware County, Pennsylvania, on a state charge for possessing this type of type of hardware that is apparently illegal to possess, but could be purchased anywhere,
[31:21.040 --> 31:21.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: really.
[31:21.480 --> 31:22.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[31:25.690 --> 31:26.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[31:26.510 --> 31:26.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, hello.
[31:26.850 --> 31:28.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: The charge was dropped, and then the feds picked it up.
[31:28.950 --> 31:43.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was in prison during that time for charges that were later dropped, and the judge that ultimately sentenced me said that I would be eligible for getting credit for that previous time served, and the Northampton County prison decided they weren't going to go by that order.
[31:45.330 --> 31:48.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: So the prison decided that they knew better than a judge?
[31:48.730 --> 31:54.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, actually, one of the prison counselors told me that what the judge says doesn't mean any of that same word I couldn't say earlier.
[31:56.230 --> 31:58.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I guess that word comes up quite a bit over there.
[31:59.570 --> 32:00.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[32:00.430 --> 32:04.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's a real heinous crime to just like take batteries out of a tone dialer.
[32:04.950 --> 32:14.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, in a country where you have rapists and murderers and other things, I mean, these cops beating people going around, I mean, I don't see how they can just keep you in prison like that.
[32:14.710 --> 32:15.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really, you know...
[32:15.750 --> 32:30.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's some other issues involved here that the federal prosecutor admitted that the real reason I was in prison was because of the information I had about the Secret Service in my files that somehow ended up on television in Philadelphia, but that's not a crime,
[32:31.010 --> 32:34.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: but the Secret Service has a way of teaching people a lesson.
[32:34.590 --> 32:36.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've learned a pretty valuable one.
[32:37.410 --> 32:45.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, the way that I see it, you know, for all the time that you've served, I mean, it's not like you went out and killed somebody.
[32:46.130 --> 32:46.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[32:47.130 --> 32:48.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: He'd be out by now if he did that.
[32:49.250 --> 32:51.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, you know what Clinton stands for?
[32:51.690 --> 32:52.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's that?
[32:52.270 --> 32:54.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Certified liar in national top office now.
[32:55.490 --> 32:56.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, that's interesting.
[32:56.570 --> 32:57.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: How about that?
[32:57.830 --> 33:00.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you see Flick Willie got an acronym just for his name.
[33:00.150 --> 33:08.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: On the subject of Clinton, I should mention that this Communications Unicy Act is going to go before the Supreme Court this fall or winter, probably.
[33:09.790 --> 33:24.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Whether it goes before the Supreme Court, before the next presidential election, not as anybody's guess, but I do know that at least one of the Supreme Court justices is planning to step down immediately after the election.
[33:25.190 --> 33:27.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that may tip the balance right there.
[33:27.290 --> 33:38.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: If we get a conservative in office, he will very quickly appoint a conservative judge, which may tip the balance as far as how this Communications the lawsuit is finally resolved.
[33:38.910 --> 33:44.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, if anyone's pinging on who they want to vote for, that may be one consideration.
[33:46.270 --> 33:46.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I see.
[33:47.190 --> 33:49.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, really, good luck to you, Bernie.
[33:49.790 --> 33:54.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've been meaning to write and everything, but I have been following your case, you know.
[33:54.930 --> 33:55.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, drop me a note.
[33:56.410 --> 33:57.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, every little bit helps.
[33:57.790 --> 34:00.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can drop you one at 2600.com, right?
[34:00.650 --> 34:01.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[34:01.130 --> 34:01.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, yes.
[34:02.310 --> 34:04.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll get it more quickly if you mail it to me.
[34:04.350 --> 34:06.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll get my address at the end of the show.
[34:06.570 --> 34:09.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I've been trying to get that, but you guys just give it out so quick.
[34:09.510 --> 34:10.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, we'll give it out.
[34:10.150 --> 34:11.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll give it out twice, all right?
[34:11.130 --> 34:12.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, we'll give it out.
[34:12.550 --> 34:13.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll give it out now, okay?
[34:14.010 --> 34:14.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, sounds good.
[34:15.030 --> 34:15.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[34:15.490 --> 34:17.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Manuel, fiber, more power to the people.
[34:17.850 --> 34:18.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[34:20.370 --> 34:21.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Keep the flame alive.
[34:22.430 --> 34:22.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right on.
[34:23.250 --> 34:24.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: We need a hacker salute of some sort.
[34:28.750 --> 34:30.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: My address here is, uh, where's the guys that go to me?
[34:30.850 --> 34:34.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: My name is Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S.
[34:35.090 --> 34:37.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the address is Bucks County Prison.
[34:38.970 --> 34:43.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's at 1730 South Eastern Road.
[34:43.030 --> 34:44.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's E-A-S-T-O-N.
[34:45.190 --> 34:46.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's in Doylestown.
[34:46.750 --> 34:52.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: D-O-Y-L-E-S-T-O-W-N-P-A 18901.
[34:53.170 --> 34:55.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can send me letters, but you can't send me stamps.
[34:56.030 --> 35:01.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you want to send me a book or magazine, that's great, just make sure it says reading materials on the outside or they won't accept it.
[35:01.490 --> 35:02.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, what about letters?
[35:02.230 --> 35:03.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do they have to say reading material, too?
[35:03.790 --> 35:06.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it can't hurt if it says reading materials on the outside of the letter.
[35:06.950 --> 35:10.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I've had a couple of letters rejected for reasons they wouldn't explain.
[35:10.710 --> 35:13.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh, bear in mind that the authorities may read anything that's written to me.
[35:13.990 --> 35:19.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: So don't send me anything that could be, uh, interpreted as being illegal or, or with, uh, evil intent.
[35:20.750 --> 35:21.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good idea.
[35:21.910 --> 35:23.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, let's take another phone call.
[35:23.830 --> 35:24.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[35:24.510 --> 35:24.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[35:25.270 --> 35:26.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, it's Jeremy here.
[35:26.990 --> 35:27.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: How you doing, everybody?
[35:28.070 --> 35:28.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: How you doing?
[35:28.330 --> 35:28.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, Bernie.
[35:29.010 --> 35:29.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[35:30.430 --> 35:38.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you do have to write printed matter or reading materials because I sent something that had some, a letter, but had newspaper clippings and I got it back.
[35:39.450 --> 35:39.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my.
[35:40.010 --> 35:41.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for sending them anyway.
[35:41.390 --> 35:47.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you got, you got part of the other thing, but not all of it, and so now I'm going to send this out again in two separate parts.
[35:47.210 --> 35:47.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[35:47.730 --> 35:48.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[35:48.710 --> 35:56.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, I wanted to know what the name of the warden that made the judgment was, and if he's still there, I'd like to...
[35:56.930 --> 36:04.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the person who's responsible for, uh, for miscalculating the time and not crediting him for it, his name is Joe Tammandor.
[36:05.270 --> 36:07.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is he part of, is he the head of the parole board?
[36:07.770 --> 36:09.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, he's not part of the parole board.
[36:09.510 --> 36:18.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is an individual whose job at the prison is to calculate, uh, inmates' remaining sentences after their sentence, how much time they have left to spend behind bars.
[36:18.730 --> 36:18.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[36:19.410 --> 36:20.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who's in charge of the parole board?
[36:20.990 --> 36:21.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do you know?
[36:21.650 --> 36:22.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: I have a letter that's sort of...
[36:22.810 --> 36:23.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[36:23.750 --> 36:40.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: I do know, well, if the Allentown, uh, state parole office serves, uh, this county, um, this county, and the person in charge of that office is, uh, Jerry Marshall in the, uh, the Allentown state parole office, but I don't have the number offhand for...
[36:40.370 --> 36:41.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, okay, okay.
[36:41.450 --> 36:44.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I have an, sort of an interesting, a little different kind of a letter.
[36:44.970 --> 36:48.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, um, uh, yeah, I lost my train of thought.
[36:49.130 --> 36:57.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: I had a question, um, about the, uh, oh, yeah, just to say about, about parole, it's considered a privilege, a parole situation.
[36:57.850 --> 37:02.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's, it's, it's silly, it's ridiculous, but it's considered a privilege on good behavior.
[37:03.190 --> 37:08.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Very technically, they don't have to even, um, recognize it.
[37:08.590 --> 37:09.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: I hate to say it.
[37:09.350 --> 37:11.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: My sentence is a two-year prison sentence.
[37:11.610 --> 37:12.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh...
[37:12.390 --> 37:14.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: They could, if they wanted, you know...
[37:14.610 --> 37:16.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: My sentence is technically two years.
[37:16.270 --> 37:19.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: I could spend anywhere between six months to two years in prison.
[37:19.350 --> 37:21.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: After six months, I'm eligible for parole.
[37:21.330 --> 37:27.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, what I, what I'm saying is that's an eligible, it means sort of, like, eligible based on good behavior, is reading between the lines.
[37:28.110 --> 37:31.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they could, they could do the two-year thing.
[37:31.510 --> 37:38.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's, I would be careful about, um, how much force you strike from inside there, you know what I mean?
[37:38.890 --> 37:39.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, right.
[37:39.550 --> 37:40.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, uh, you know.
[37:41.490 --> 37:46.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I don't think Bernie is, uh, is, is, you know, doing anything bad inside prison.
[37:46.250 --> 37:48.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: It isn't as far as, uh, you know, causing trouble.
[37:48.730 --> 37:49.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[37:49.210 --> 37:54.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: The speech, of course, is something that I know the Secret Service hates, but there's really not a whole lot they can do about that.
[37:54.230 --> 37:55.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, uh, right.
[37:56.110 --> 37:58.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because even if Bernie S isn't here, we're still going to be talking about it.
[37:59.170 --> 38:04.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Which is, uh, that's, that's, would expect that, but I mean, as long as it's not coming from him.
[38:05.190 --> 38:14.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, they're just, they're just so, they're so picky about public, uh, the public opinion of the whole justice system that even saying something like the food is bad, they, they don't like people saying that.
[38:14.890 --> 38:25.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'll tell you this, just knowledge of this case, knowledge of what's happening with Mitnick and various other hacker cases, the opinion of, uh, justice in this country among people I know has plummeted over the past couple of years.
[38:25.270 --> 38:25.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, yeah.
[38:26.370 --> 38:29.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's, you know, at some point, they're going to have to address this.
[38:30.370 --> 38:30.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[38:31.130 --> 38:46.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, it's, I know everybody is, uh, in this area and the whole situation with police right now in the city, I think we're, we're in a very, very scary place right now in this country and it's all, you know, it's all wrapped up, but I, I don't even want to waste time with that.
[38:46.990 --> 38:48.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: I get too emotional about it.
[38:48.750 --> 38:48.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[38:49.110 --> 38:50.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, uh, okay.
[38:50.630 --> 38:53.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: I, I, just, um, something about the telephone, Emmanuel.
[38:53.910 --> 38:59.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: I got charged $3 for calling a directory assistance in Boston.
[38:59.630 --> 39:05.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: And like, when I questioned the charge, they said it was because I had asked for an operator to give me the number.
[39:06.070 --> 39:08.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: You asked for an operator to give you...
[39:08.470 --> 39:10.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: The, the, uh, the information number.
[39:10.550 --> 39:22.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I said, no, I didn't ask for an operator, but when I dialed the information, an operator came on when I, when I expected the, uh, voice to come on, which we've gotten used to now, where there used to be operators giving the number.
[39:23.150 --> 39:23.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[39:23.470 --> 39:27.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: The voice did not come on, the actual operator did, but I didn't think twice about it.
[39:27.810 --> 39:30.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: It shows up on the bill that I requested the operator.
[39:30.330 --> 39:31.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, just tell them that you didn't.
[39:31.670 --> 39:32.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I did.
[39:32.150 --> 39:34.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: I, I did, you know, arguing about it.
[39:34.150 --> 39:38.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: So they, they gave me a $2.80-something-cent credit that I have to wait about six months for.
[39:38.910 --> 39:42.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's just to say, uh, everybody, you know, you gotta, you gotta watch every little thing.
[39:42.370 --> 39:45.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's amazing, too, how they charge you for operator-assisted calls now when there's no operator.
[39:46.070 --> 39:46.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[39:46.470 --> 39:50.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's all, all computerized, yet you still have to pay the same operator-assisted rate.
[39:50.370 --> 39:50.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[39:51.090 --> 39:52.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, thanks, uh, thanks for the call.
[39:52.470 --> 39:53.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, take care.
[39:53.290 --> 39:53.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bye, Bernie.
[39:53.970 --> 39:54.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bye, everybody.
[39:54.430 --> 39:54.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bye, thank you.
[39:55.090 --> 39:55.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Take care.
[39:57.050 --> 39:58.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, let's, uh, go to the phones again.
[39:58.710 --> 40:00.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-279-3400.
[40:00.430 --> 40:00.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[40:00.690 --> 40:01.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on Off the Hook.
[40:01.630 --> 40:02.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, hi, Emmanuel.
[40:02.310 --> 40:02.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just called.
[40:02.990 --> 40:03.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was talking to Bernie S.
[40:04.030 --> 40:10.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm listening to your previous phone call about the lady that got the, uh, $3 charge for directory assistance.
[40:10.710 --> 40:10.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[40:11.510 --> 40:12.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's incredible.
[40:12.730 --> 40:16.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's, uh, it's operator-assisted, operator-computer-assisted.
[40:16.610 --> 40:25.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, usually when I call, I tell them, uh, no area code or no automation, and the operator just gives me the number, and I've, I've never gotten charged for using an operator.
[40:25.850 --> 40:26.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[40:26.590 --> 40:28.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they can do all kinds of things.
[40:28.130 --> 40:38.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, sometimes, if you call an operator and you ask a particular question, like, you want to know where a certain area code is, without even asking you, they'll just switch you to information, which racks up a charge right there.
[40:38.190 --> 40:44.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: It used to be they would just tell you off the top of their head by looking it up on a computer, as they're supposed to do, uh, where that area code is.
[40:44.890 --> 40:45.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[40:46.030 --> 40:46.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's incredible.
[40:47.090 --> 40:47.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[40:47.750 --> 40:47.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[40:48.090 --> 40:50.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting, a charge that I've noticed happens.
[40:50.250 --> 41:01.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I had one of these, uh, TDDs, a telecommunications device for the deaf, and AT&T has set up an 800 number for, uh, for hearing-impaired individuals to, uh, get nationwide directory assistance by calling the central number.
[41:02.110 --> 41:06.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, anyone interested in calling that number is 800-855-1155.
[41:06.930 --> 41:07.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: I remember this.
[41:07.570 --> 41:08.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: You, you discovered this, in fact.
[41:09.010 --> 41:09.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[41:09.670 --> 41:26.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: As a, what I found, though, is if you call that 800 toll-free number and, uh, communicate with, uh, with an operator, um, through the keyboard and the display, uh, you're not, you're not being told if there's any charge involved, yet about a $2 charge will appear on your bill for,
[41:26.590 --> 41:32.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: for every time you call this 800 number and use the, uh, the services of the, uh, hearing-impaired directory assistance.
[41:33.050 --> 41:37.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I contested that repeatedly and they continued to charge me, uh, every time I used that service.
[41:37.830 --> 41:44.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, it's the only service I know of that AT&T offers when you call an 800 number, you're not told that you can be charged to anything.
[41:44.470 --> 41:46.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you get charged $2 every time they call the 800 number.
[41:47.010 --> 41:53.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: I remember there was, uh, a big hear and cry when MCI tried a similar thing with nationwide directory assistance and that was soon changed to a 900 number.
[41:54.190 --> 42:00.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, in this particular case, I guess, because it's only deaf people calling, they don't have, uh, much say in, uh, in, in matters like that.
[42:00.750 --> 42:01.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's totally unfair.
[42:01.890 --> 42:14.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyone who wants to experiment with that without spending any money on a TDD and go to one of the, uh, go to one of the, uh, public, uh, pay telephones that has a, uh, has a keyboard or a TDD, uh, logo or, logo or symbol there.
[42:14.730 --> 42:17.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can tell you see it says for, there's TDD on the phone.
[42:17.890 --> 42:18.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[42:18.170 --> 42:29.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you, uh, pick up the phone and dial 800-855-1155 and wait for the carrier tone, then the keyboard will magically, uh, come out of this motorized drawer and then you can, uh, you can type messages back and forth to the operator.
[42:29.610 --> 42:47.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Surprisingly, when you do this, you're not communicating with a computer keyboard somewhere else and then she will pick up another phone at her end and, and verbally call a, uh, a regular director or assistant software to get the number from, from him or her and then,
[42:47.670 --> 42:48.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: uh, type it into the keyboard.
[42:48.910 --> 42:51.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: A real, real interesting, uh, use of technology.
[42:51.470 --> 42:52.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's amazing.
[42:52.170 --> 42:54.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: You'd think by now they'd be tied into the Internet somehow.
[42:55.090 --> 42:56.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: You wouldn't be using these primitive machines.
[42:58.290 --> 43:01.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it'd be so much faster to just look something up on a CD-ROM or connect someplace.
[43:03.010 --> 43:04.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I guess, uh, I guess that's coming.
[43:05.710 --> 43:07.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-279-3400.
[43:07.490 --> 43:08.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[43:08.150 --> 43:08.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[43:09.130 --> 43:09.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me?
[43:09.970 --> 43:10.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[43:10.950 --> 43:17.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, um, I was wondering, you know, if you guys are going to be doing any kind of simulcast or webcast into California, into the Bay Area?
[43:18.110 --> 43:20.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, well, that, uh, that really depends.
[43:20.730 --> 43:21.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Excuse me a second.
[43:21.630 --> 43:27.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, that, that really depends on, on what kind of interest there is, uh, in other parts of the country for the show.
[43:27.550 --> 43:27.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[43:28.010 --> 43:30.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: If there's an interest, then, then that kind of thing will happen.
[43:31.030 --> 43:31.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[43:31.450 --> 43:34.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm from California and I'm just here, up here for PC Expo.
[43:34.530 --> 43:34.750]  Uh-huh.
[43:34.890 --> 43:37.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I have my little tape recorder out and I'm taping everything that I hear here.
[43:38.410 --> 43:38.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Great.
[43:38.550 --> 43:41.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: You guys don't update the web too much, so I've got to keep up with that.
[43:41.630 --> 43:44.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, now, do you, uh, were you listening to the shows on FTP?
[43:44.650 --> 43:46.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because we have some shows available there.
[43:46.130 --> 43:47.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, in the GSM format.
[43:47.570 --> 43:47.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[43:47.890 --> 43:49.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I can unpack it and then unpack it again.
[43:49.610 --> 43:51.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it just takes a while, but it gets there.
[43:51.750 --> 43:55.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're, we're looking into doing something on real audio and hopefully that'll happen soon.
[43:56.030 --> 43:57.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: We just need some coordination as far as that goes.
[43:57.910 --> 43:58.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[43:58.410 --> 43:59.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, thanks for your call.
[43:59.490 --> 44:00.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, take care.
[44:00.830 --> 44:03.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: It would be really nice to have, uh, to have a complete library on the Internet.
[44:04.290 --> 44:05.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't you think?
[44:05.670 --> 44:06.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, definitely.
[44:07.030 --> 44:07.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, on the air.
[44:08.750 --> 44:09.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello?
[44:09.330 --> 44:09.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes?
[44:09.910 --> 44:11.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, I have two comments.
[44:11.710 --> 44:11.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[44:12.130 --> 44:13.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: One was about the telephone calls.
[44:14.530 --> 44:20.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, calling from prisons, very often, you get disconnected three times, so you're charged.
[44:20.570 --> 44:31.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I agree with you about the first minute being the biggest charge because, it will say, uh, you have a collect call from an inmate, please say your name, and then there's a blank so you don't even know who the inmate is.
[44:31.350 --> 44:31.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[44:31.750 --> 44:38.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Unless you're a prisoner rights activist, um, and you'll say, yes, I'll accept it, and you say, oh, it's so-and-so.
[44:38.390 --> 44:45.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, especially from ADX Florence, I noticed, they'll say, this is the lock-tail operator, and then you just accept it.
[44:45.570 --> 44:50.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, in the course of the call, you'll invariably be disconnected three times.
[44:50.750 --> 44:58.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, then you try to find out this telecom, the company that's supposed to be, uh, in charge of that, you know, who's billing.
[44:58.990 --> 45:00.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you never can find them.
[45:00.530 --> 45:01.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a 1-800-TELCOM.
[45:02.270 --> 45:07.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, you're kind of going to catch 22, and there's not even anybody to complain to.
[45:07.370 --> 45:08.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, actually, it's not entirely true.
[45:09.070 --> 45:10.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can call NYNEX.
[45:10.530 --> 45:18.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a special number that they'll give you at your business office, where you can call them and say that you're not going to pay that particular charge from that particular company.
[45:18.790 --> 45:22.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: They'll take it off your bill, but it's possible that company might then contact you.
[45:22.250 --> 45:29.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, if they do that, then you know who they are they will do that if you reach that particular stage.
[45:29.550 --> 45:31.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I've reached that stage many times.
[45:31.570 --> 45:34.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: You should dispute it through your local telephone company.
[45:34.970 --> 45:35.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can't reach the...
[45:35.910 --> 45:38.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've tried to do that, and I didn't have any luck.
[45:38.970 --> 45:53.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: But what I did try to do once, when I got disconnected three times, was try to find TELCOM, because the person who called me from the prison said they knew absolutely that it was a 1-800 number that handled that phone, and I couldn't find them.
[45:54.370 --> 45:57.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Another thing you should do is since you noticed that the first...
[45:57.030 --> 46:00.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: just the acceptance of the call is the first minute is the bulk of the...
[46:02.190 --> 46:21.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: What you should do to try to justify you're not getting charged so much, what you can do is say that you were involuntarily cut off three times, or two times, or how many times it was, and have them combine all those as if it were one lengthy long distance collect call as opposed to three separate ones or a separate connection charge for each.
[46:21.250 --> 46:26.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you always have the one-minute calls taken off, because that's invariably something messed up with the system.
[46:26.630 --> 46:39.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think that's purposely messed up, because they feel that, first of all, there's a line, and everybody wants the phone, so until you get reconnected, the person's cherished ten minutes is going by very quickly.
[46:39.510 --> 46:39.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[46:40.110 --> 46:44.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: So they're left with something like six minutes while you're arguing with the operator for two.
[46:44.450 --> 46:44.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[46:45.030 --> 46:46.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it's a good show, thanks.
[46:46.470 --> 46:47.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, thanks for calling.
[46:47.330 --> 46:47.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bye-bye.
[46:48.330 --> 46:57.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, I know in your case, when we get the bill for you, there's a lot of one-minute calls there, and those are times when someone's not around to pick up the phone, and they bill us anyway.
[46:57.370 --> 47:01.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's other times where, for some reason, it just accepts itself.
[47:02.210 --> 47:02.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I...
[47:02.610 --> 47:08.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, I called your number today, your home number, and your answering machine accepted the call.
[47:08.330 --> 47:20.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, okay, now, that's not quite fair, because my answering machine isn't doing anything of the sort, but AT&T, for some reason, thinks that somebody is accepting it, and I don't understand, because half the time, whenever I do accept the call, it doesn't recognize me,
[47:20.470 --> 47:23.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: so I don't know what it's recognizing when nobody does anything.
[47:23.950 --> 47:25.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's supposed to be some...
[47:25.370 --> 47:32.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's supposed to recognize a Touch-Tone one, but there's no Touch-Tone one recording on your answering playback.
[47:32.430 --> 47:33.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not even close.
[47:33.310 --> 47:34.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'd like to know, this is AT&T?
[47:35.090 --> 47:36.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the best they can do?
[47:36.410 --> 47:37.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think they can do better.
[47:37.670 --> 47:38.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure they can do better.
[47:38.630 --> 47:43.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: They just don't care, because the more hang-ups that there are, the more money they make.
[47:43.470 --> 47:44.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's no incentive for them to fix it.
[47:45.550 --> 47:47.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like to find out more about that particular system.
[47:47.650 --> 47:53.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe we can do an FOIA on what kind have at Bucks County Prison.
[47:53.610 --> 47:54.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm working on that right now.
[47:54.890 --> 47:55.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, are you?
[47:55.470 --> 47:55.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Great.
[47:56.250 --> 47:57.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, you're really on top of things, I've got to say.
[47:58.810 --> 48:00.290]  I don't have a lot else to do.
[48:00.970 --> 48:01.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's true.
[48:02.230 --> 48:03.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-279-3400.
[48:03.690 --> 48:04.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take another phone call.
[48:04.950 --> 48:05.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:07.290 --> 48:08.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, you're not on the air.
[48:08.850 --> 48:09.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:10.150 --> 48:10.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, hi, Emmanuel.
[48:10.930 --> 48:13.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: I got nailed by the WBAI phone system.
[48:13.470 --> 48:14.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Got nailed, huh?
[48:14.530 --> 48:15.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, nailed me again.
[48:16.550 --> 48:17.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: You mean it called you or what?
[48:18.030 --> 48:18.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: It hung up on you?
[48:22.310 --> 48:25.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, it's not the WBAI phone system that's doing that, it's NYNEX that does that.
[48:25.610 --> 48:26.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, NYNEX loves us.
[48:26.870 --> 48:27.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:27.510 --> 48:29.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: They'll cut you off after a certain number of rings.
[48:29.850 --> 48:34.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I was connected, I was listening to Bernie S, and it cut us off.
[48:34.490 --> 48:36.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was the one that said power to the people earlier.
[48:36.830 --> 48:38.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, and this is your third call.
[48:38.630 --> 48:38.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[48:39.050 --> 48:41.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, we have to ask it, you know, you're not called that many times.
[48:41.990 --> 48:45.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know, but I had a question for you and I forgot to ask it before I got cut off.
[48:45.890 --> 48:46.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[48:46.830 --> 48:52.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I just wanted to know what is the oldest phone system in the country and what is it running, where it's located?
[48:52.890 --> 48:54.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, Fiber, you have that information, right?
[48:54.770 --> 48:57.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: The oldest phone system still in operation?
[48:57.710 --> 48:58.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[48:58.770 --> 49:03.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm sure that somewhere there's still a step-by-step switch, which was the first automatic switching system.
[49:04.030 --> 49:04.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: In this country, you think so?
[49:05.370 --> 49:07.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, somewhere, I'm sure, in some rural area.
[49:07.650 --> 49:09.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know in Canada they still have something like that.
[49:09.870 --> 49:24.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: I read in a telecommunications trade magazine about four years ago that there was a step-by-step switch somewhere in South Newton Southern New Jersey, and they were going to be replacing it, and it was like the last step-by-step switch until operation.
[49:24.890 --> 49:31.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that's a true fact or not, but that's what I read in a... it was a telephone engineering and management magazine.
[49:32.350 --> 49:35.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have replaced things pretty quickly, though, over the past few years.
[49:35.570 --> 49:47.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, when you hear the retrospective shows over the next couple of weeks, you'll notice the difference in rings when we connect to things, how there's more crossbars and I don't think steps, but the sounds are generally different.
[49:47.950 --> 49:54.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, last week when we played the tape from the early 80s, it was dramatically different how things connected.
[49:54.130 --> 49:54.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was good.
[49:54.790 --> 49:55.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoyed that.
[49:55.850 --> 49:56.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm glad.
[49:57.150 --> 49:57.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for the call.
[49:58.030 --> 49:58.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Any other questions?
[49:58.810 --> 49:59.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[49:59.730 --> 50:02.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to let you know, Emmanuel, I don't know if you remember me or not.
[50:02.530 --> 50:04.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm the blind guy that goes to the meetings in New York.
[50:04.750 --> 50:05.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[50:05.670 --> 50:06.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Deeply shrouded.
[50:06.570 --> 50:06.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[50:06.990 --> 50:07.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[50:07.510 --> 50:07.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: How are you doing?
[50:08.030 --> 50:08.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's been a while.
[50:09.090 --> 50:11.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was out in Oregon for a while, but now I'm back.
[50:11.290 --> 50:11.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Back in New
[50:17.170 --> 50:18.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be sending you a letter soon.
[50:18.290 --> 50:21.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have yourself a good night, and I'll send you some reading material if I can.
[50:22.110 --> 50:22.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate it.
[50:22.610 --> 50:22.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks a lot.
[50:23.150 --> 50:23.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, no problem, old man.
[50:24.070 --> 50:24.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Enjoy.
[50:24.630 --> 50:25.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Take care.
[50:25.310 --> 50:25.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye-bye.
[50:27.010 --> 50:28.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-279-3400.
[50:28.490 --> 50:28.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[50:28.930 --> 50:29.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on Off the Hook.
[50:29.950 --> 50:30.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[50:30.490 --> 50:30.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you doing?
[50:31.150 --> 50:32.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm turning on my radio here.
[50:32.710 --> 50:33.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[50:33.150 --> 50:34.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a question for you.
[50:35.430 --> 50:35.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[50:37.310 --> 50:41.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Easiest way is on a Mirage phone system to go around the nine-digit thing.
[50:42.930 --> 50:44.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: The nine-digit thing.
[50:44.850 --> 50:45.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[50:45.550 --> 50:47.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not being entirely familiar with that system.
[50:47.570 --> 50:49.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess you're talking about some sort of an access code.
[50:50.330 --> 50:50.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[50:51.070 --> 50:51.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[50:52.090 --> 50:54.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you don't want to have to dial that access code to get out?
[50:54.730 --> 51:00.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, because it cartels, it goes through a whole database of certain things, which then prohibits you from dialing certain ranges of numbers.
[51:01.950 --> 51:04.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: So how is it possible to bypass those?
[51:05.070 --> 51:06.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, there's a couple of things.
[51:07.070 --> 51:12.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: First of all, when you dial nine, does it give you a beep for an access code at that point, or is it after you dial a number?
[51:13.550 --> 51:14.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really sure.
[51:15.230 --> 51:17.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: When I dial nine, I get a steady tone.
[51:17.890 --> 51:18.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, a steady dial tone.
[51:18.810 --> 51:18.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[51:18.990 --> 51:19.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[51:19.310 --> 51:20.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not a real dial tone.
[51:20.370 --> 51:22.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's probably something inside the PBX.
[51:23.530 --> 51:26.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you dial, are there any, like, let's say you want to dial an 800 number.
[51:26.450 --> 51:27.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have to enter the code for that?
[51:28.210 --> 51:31.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, just dial nine, and then, yeah, you do have to dial nine.
[51:31.670 --> 51:37.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: You dial nine, yeah, but do you have to, wait, are you talking about, you're just talking about dialing the nine, or are you talking about a nine-digit authorization code?
[51:37.690 --> 51:39.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a nine-digit authorization code to get out.
[51:39.950 --> 51:40.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[51:40.210 --> 51:40.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[51:40.590 --> 51:45.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you dial 9, and then you dial 1-800-whatever, you don't have to dial the 9-digit authorization code.
[51:45.190 --> 51:45.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[51:45.590 --> 51:45.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[51:46.090 --> 51:51.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it does allow calls to go through on some circumstances without a code.
[51:51.390 --> 51:56.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, now, if you could somehow get to an operator, the operator isn't going to know what your PBX restriction is.
[51:56.910 --> 51:58.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're going to know what your line restriction is.
[51:59.330 --> 52:03.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: If there's any restriction on the line, which doesn't seem to be likely, it's probably grabbing an outside trunk.
[52:03.930 --> 52:06.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: So once I get an outside in the 800, I can bounce around?
[52:06.510 --> 52:07.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's possible.
[52:07.730 --> 52:11.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your system might be so primitive that it just reverts back to an unrestricted dial tone.
[52:11.350 --> 52:13.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's unlikely, but it happens, doesn't it?
[52:13.290 --> 52:15.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have any idea who makes this phone system?
[52:15.850 --> 52:19.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was put in by... I'm not really sure.
[52:19.870 --> 52:20.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really sure.
[52:21.110 --> 52:23.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: It just says Mirage up on top.
[52:24.370 --> 52:24.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hold on.
[52:24.970 --> 52:26.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually looking at the box now.
[52:26.470 --> 52:28.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: The only letters on there are P-A-T.
[52:29.170 --> 52:30.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that would be better.
[52:30.070 --> 52:30.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: P-A-T.
[52:30.730 --> 52:31.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: P-A-T.
[52:31.930 --> 52:33.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: I bet the last letter is telephone.
[52:34.590 --> 52:35.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[52:35.330 --> 52:35.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: No?
[52:36.510 --> 52:37.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do they...
[52:37.170 --> 52:41.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Does it want you to put in a nine-digit access code if you call a local number?
[52:43.350 --> 52:44.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Usually not, no.
[52:44.730 --> 52:46.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: There are some local numbers which do kick it in, though.
[52:47.430 --> 52:48.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: You mean there's some numbers...
[52:48.390 --> 52:48.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you in 212?
[52:49.310 --> 52:50.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm in 212.
[52:50.170 --> 52:52.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's some numbers in 212 that it asks for a code for.
[52:52.570 --> 52:53.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: That will ask for a code.
[52:53.690 --> 52:57.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, with a system that's screwed up, I would say that there's probably a lot of holes in it.
[52:59.110 --> 53:06.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: But most likely, if you do something involving carrier access codes, operators, reverted dial tones, things like that, there's bound to be something there.
[53:07.250 --> 53:11.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: You might want to play with the carrier access code 10-triple-zero.
[53:11.370 --> 53:15.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: I actually did get a hold of one of the disks that was in the service box next to it.
[53:15.670 --> 53:18.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was P-A-T all-access software.
[53:19.310 --> 53:20.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm trying to play around with that.
[53:21.150 --> 53:22.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't get it working, per se.
[53:22.610 --> 53:24.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know what platform it's running on.
[53:24.210 --> 53:25.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: It looks like some sort of hybrid DOS thing.
[53:27.810 --> 53:30.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't have access to the actual computer the thing is running on, do you?
[53:31.430 --> 53:33.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have physical access to it.
[53:33.170 --> 53:36.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: I could sneak in during the day and probably play for a couple minutes.
[53:36.530 --> 53:36.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[53:37.830 --> 53:39.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to piss off the tech.
[53:39.450 --> 53:40.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, you certainly don't want to do that.
[53:41.450 --> 53:42.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, there's all kinds of possibilities.
[53:42.950 --> 53:48.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just try scanning out some other types of numbers, 950s, 800s, operators.
[53:48.490 --> 53:51.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys never heard P-A-T, it doesn't ring a bell with you guys?
[53:51.450 --> 53:54.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not familiar with it, but just because we haven't heard of it doesn't mean that's, you know, it's not going to...
[53:54.990 --> 53:56.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's TAP spelled backwards.
[53:56.590 --> 53:57.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it is.
[53:57.630 --> 53:58.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: It is.
[53:58.230 --> 53:59.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's TAP spelled backwards.
[53:59.770 --> 54:01.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what that means, but...
[54:01.050 --> 54:02.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's it.
[54:02.490 --> 54:04.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think anyone was reading TAP magazine back there.
[54:05.010 --> 54:05.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Probably not.
[54:05.790 --> 54:07.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe L-O-D, but not TAP.
[54:07.790 --> 54:09.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, well, keep us updated.
[54:09.290 --> 54:10.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure you'll find a way.
[54:10.770 --> 54:12.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Decent, long-lived Nick Jarecki.
[54:12.490 --> 54:12.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[54:13.150 --> 54:13.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[54:14.330 --> 54:15.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[54:16.070 --> 54:16.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[54:16.570 --> 54:16.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: How you doing?
[54:17.270 --> 54:17.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[54:18.270 --> 54:19.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can I get on off the hook?
[54:19.950 --> 54:20.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air right now.
[54:21.750 --> 54:22.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I am?
[54:22.570 --> 54:22.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[54:23.150 --> 54:23.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[54:26.150 --> 54:28.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I hope that was as much fun for you as it was for me.
[54:28.330 --> 54:29.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[54:29.650 --> 54:29.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[54:30.630 --> 54:31.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, go ahead.
[54:31.630 --> 54:32.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm waiting to speak to Emmanuel.
[54:33.410 --> 54:34.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[54:34.370 --> 54:35.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, great, I'm sorry.
[54:35.230 --> 54:35.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[54:35.690 --> 54:42.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just wanted to say, did you, in the way in the past, used to have a show on WUSB, News of the World?
[54:42.050 --> 54:42.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, yeah.
[54:42.930 --> 54:44.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, that show aired here a couple of times, too.
[54:44.930 --> 54:45.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, really?
[54:45.230 --> 54:45.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[54:45.390 --> 54:46.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I'm a long-time fan, then.
[54:46.450 --> 54:47.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was shortwave radio.
[54:47.810 --> 54:50.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: We played shortwave radio bits from various parts of the world.
[54:50.430 --> 54:50.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was a long time ago.
[54:51.550 --> 54:55.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, um, let's say hello to, uh, to, um, Ed.
[54:55.830 --> 55:02.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's, uh, I've missed you guys on a lot of Tuesday nights since you moved from Wednesday nights, and, uh, I'm sad to see that he's still in jail.
[55:03.110 --> 55:06.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, how do you feel about, uh, about this time slot?
[55:06.730 --> 55:10.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is it, uh, I, Wednesday nights was so much better, I thought, for you guys.
[55:10.390 --> 55:11.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, it doesn't really matter where you stick me.
[55:12.030 --> 55:13.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm, I'm, I'm pretty happy.
[55:13.370 --> 55:13.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[55:13.590 --> 55:14.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Any, any, any slot.
[55:14.970 --> 55:15.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[55:15.510 --> 55:17.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: And who do you use for a long-distance carrier yourself?
[55:17.430 --> 55:18.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are you an AT&T customer?
[55:18.490 --> 55:19.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll use all of them.
[55:19.570 --> 55:19.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: You do?
[55:20.070 --> 55:23.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: At some point, I always, I'm always making phone calls through various different means.
[55:24.070 --> 55:24.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, thanks a lot.
[55:25.090 --> 55:25.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[55:25.530 --> 55:25.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Take care.
[55:26.530 --> 55:27.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Add that to the file.
[55:27.990 --> 55:28.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[55:29.310 --> 55:29.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[55:29.910 --> 55:30.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[55:31.350 --> 55:31.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi.
[55:31.870 --> 55:32.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: How you doing?
[55:32.990 --> 55:36.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, I'm, uh, I'm interested in talking about two different problems.
[55:36.970 --> 55:40.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: One is, uh, in, in the, in the state of New York.
[55:40.470 --> 55:40.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[55:40.830 --> 55:44.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, they are, um, uh, in the prison system.
[55:44.490 --> 55:46.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: They, uh, have, uh, private carriers.
[55:46.990 --> 55:52.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the private carriers not only charge you enormous amounts, uh, but they also, um...
[55:52.810 --> 55:53.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Excuse me.
[55:53.770 --> 55:56.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: They also charge you what calls you didn't make.
[55:57.070 --> 55:59.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you, if you refuse to call, they charge you anyway.
[55:59.750 --> 56:08.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: And many people, the poorest people, the, the people who, uh, have, uh, prisoners, uh, uh, put in their family and so on, are ripped off.
[56:08.750 --> 56:08.970]  Uh-huh.
[56:08.970 --> 56:14.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they don't even have any, they don't even know any way of, uh, uh, complaining about this.
[56:14.230 --> 56:14.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[56:14.670 --> 56:14.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[56:14.870 --> 56:16.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's something we brought up last week, too, in fact.
[56:16.650 --> 56:17.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: The fact that prison, uh...
[56:17.810 --> 56:19.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's apparently a big problem all across the country.
[56:19.750 --> 56:21.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've been reading more and more about this.
[56:21.690 --> 56:22.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[56:22.290 --> 56:26.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's, uh, it's unfortunate that, uh, it seems to be a, a profit angle to it.
[56:26.890 --> 56:31.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: The prisons get a large kickback from the, from the telephone, uh, carriers, uh, obviously.
[56:31.690 --> 56:42.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, there should be something, some way of getting to the, uh, heads of these prisons, uh, because it's irresponsible of them not to care what happens to people, and that people are being ripped off.
[56:42.290 --> 56:48.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I think the best way to do that is to just get the word out to as many mainstream media publications as possible.
[56:48.450 --> 56:52.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we're talking about every week here, but I think there's a lot of Americans that aren't hearing it.
[56:52.950 --> 56:54.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we're down to our last minutes.
[56:54.070 --> 56:54.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: What was the second point?
[56:54.790 --> 57:07.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right, uh, the, the, the other thing is, have you heard anything, or has anybody done anything about this Berenson, uh, woman who was, uh, uh, sentenced to, uh, uh, life imprisonment in Peru?
[57:07.770 --> 57:14.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I've, I've heard things about that, uh, that particular case, but, um, that's, it's, it's not really something that I'm up to date on.
[57:14.870 --> 57:18.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure there's other programs on the, on the station, though, that are dealing with that quite a bit.
[57:18.370 --> 57:19.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, that's great.
[57:19.390 --> 57:27.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, I, I would hope so, because I haven't heard her mentioned at all on any of the programs that, uh, talk about people who are unjustly imprisoned, et cetera.
[57:27.330 --> 57:27.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[57:27.770 --> 57:30.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, try, try TalkBack, or try one of the late night shows.
[57:30.470 --> 57:33.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure, I'm sure it's been talked about before, and we'll be again.
[57:33.430 --> 57:35.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I hope somebody calls in to say something.
[57:35.730 --> 57:43.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's really a horrible way in which he was sentenced, and, uh, it should, it should, uh, the United States government should, uh, intervene in that.
[57:44.250 --> 57:46.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, well, thank you for a very good program.
[57:46.430 --> 57:47.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[57:47.130 --> 57:47.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know I'm at the end.
[57:48.050 --> 57:53.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, they keep cutting you off, they keep, they cut me off three times in, in the space of, uh, 15 minutes.
[57:54.250 --> 57:55.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: They cut you off terribly.
[57:55.810 --> 57:57.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the NYNEX does that after, after a few rings.
[57:58.110 --> 57:59.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: But anyway, listen, we're out of time.
[57:59.350 --> 57:59.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for calling.
[58:00.110 --> 58:01.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, very quickly now, your address.
[58:01.750 --> 58:20.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, it's, uh, Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, at Bucks County Prison, 1730 South Easton Road, E-A-S-T-O-N, in Doylestown, D-O-Y-L-E-S-T-O-W-N, P-A-1-8-9-0-1.
[58:20.610 --> 58:21.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, please send me letters.
[58:22.130 --> 58:23.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, uh, need something to read.
[58:23.890 --> 58:24.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: It beats my head.
[58:25.190 --> 58:27.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, and of course, you can write to Bernie S.
[58:27.490 --> 58:29.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: on the Internet, BernieSat2600.com.
[58:29.910 --> 58:32.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can also finger that address to get updated information if things change.
[58:33.210 --> 58:35.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll be posting it there, BernieSat2600.com.
[58:36.410 --> 58:40.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we'll be in repeats for the next couple of weeks, but they're kind of interesting shows.
[58:40.510 --> 58:51.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think, uh, I think you'll get a big kick out of them, because it's, um, it's when we were first starting out, and you hear some, some people that went on to be more famous than they are now, uh, rather than they were then.
[58:51.870 --> 58:54.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, some other interesting things like that.
[58:54.450 --> 59:00.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, definitely tune in over the next couple of weeks, and we'll be updating you as to, uh, Bernie S.'s case and other things going on.
[59:00.770 --> 59:03.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, until next time, this is Emmanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[59:03.910 --> 59:04.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have a good night.
[01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:25.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you are tuned to a listener sponsor, WBAI-FM in New York City, where the time is now.
[01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:26.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well...
[01:00:26.020 --> 01:00:26.780]  ...