Off The Hook - 1996-08-27

[00:03.440 --> 00:04.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Work to be done.
[00:04.620 --> 00:05.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we need your ideas.
[00:06.320 --> 00:07.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: We can't do it alone.
[00:08.060 --> 00:12.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks, Barbara Fisher, Tom Whelan, and all of you out there for listening to We the People.
[00:12.820 --> 00:13.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good night.
[00:43.480 --> 00:44.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: We are the drum.
[00:45.640 --> 00:46.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Night drum.
[00:46.700 --> 00:55.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we will be coming to you starting September 10th on alternating late Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning, 3.30 a.m.
[00:55.960 --> 00:56.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: to 6 a.m.
[00:56.980 --> 00:59.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: with news, views, and you.
[00:59.060 --> 01:00.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: We are the drum.
[01:00.800 --> 01:02.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you are the rhythm of the drum.
[01:03.720 --> 01:03.920]  No!
[01:04.380 --> 01:05.260]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah!
[01:05.700 --> 01:06.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of the drum.
[01:06.460 --> 01:11.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: In the beginning was the beat of the drum, which began in the beginning to beat freedom.
[01:12.160 --> 01:13.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, freedom.
[01:26.910 --> 01:29.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Eh, it's just about 8 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[01:36.150 --> 01:40.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it up more.
[01:41.490 --> 01:45.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:46.790 --> 01:48.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's going to get much worse.
[01:49.130 --> 01:49.610]  I
[01:55.300 --> 01:56.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: hope that's understood.
[01:56.880 --> 01:57.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: But make me go!
[02:51.870 --> 02:53.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:53.430 --> 02:54.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:54.930 --> 02:56.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's Emmanuel Goldstein with you tonight.
[02:56.650 --> 03:01.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: And bringing you up to date on all the latest happenings going on in cyberspace.
[03:02.190 --> 03:05.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right, computer hacking and phone freaking and fun things like that.
[03:06.410 --> 03:09.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here's a story from the Daily News, which came out a couple of days ago.
[03:09.890 --> 03:11.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think this sort of brings everything into perspective.
[03:11.870 --> 03:20.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: An army soldier has been charged with espionage for allegedly hacking into military computer systems and giving national defense secrets to the Chinese.
[03:21.270 --> 03:21.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[03:22.470 --> 03:26.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Private Eric Jeanneau has been jailed since June 26th.
[03:26.830 --> 03:31.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Fayetteville Observer Times has reported he could face life in prison if convicted.
[03:31.430 --> 03:41.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: He was charged with espionage, damaging military property, larceny, and breaking into government computer systems, according to army documents obtained by the newspaper.
[03:41.990 --> 03:48.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: The charges allege he gave secret computer passwords relating to the national defense to a Chinese citizen.
[03:48.730 --> 03:50.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: That could mean just about anything.
[03:51.070 --> 03:53.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Army officials released a few details about the case.
[03:54.450 --> 04:01.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: And Jeanneau was a member of the 35th Signal Brigade who worked with computers and communications satellites at Fort Bragg.
[04:02.390 --> 04:10.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: Jeanneau's lawyer said the 20-year-old soldier was a patriot trying to show his superiors there were problems with an expensive, supposedly impenetrable system.
[04:10.410 --> 04:11.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Boy, that sounds familiar.
[04:12.430 --> 04:12.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[04:12.810 --> 04:18.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: Jeanneau's family maintains that he was just trying to point out a weakness in security and showed his superiors what he was doing.
[04:19.650 --> 04:22.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: And for that, he faces life in prison.
[04:22.810 --> 04:24.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is even worse than Bernie S.
[04:24.690 --> 04:30.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we're going to be looking into that story coming out of Fort Bragg in the weeks ahead.
[04:31.430 --> 04:36.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: But you better think twice before you go out to show the military that their computer systems are insecure.
[04:36.730 --> 04:39.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: They may take it the wrong way.
[04:39.370 --> 04:49.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: Speaking of taking things the wrong way, we've got our hands on the actual document that everybody has been quoting in the media.
[04:49.170 --> 04:53.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Computer attacks at the Department of Defense pose increasing risks.
[04:53.590 --> 04:57.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, the old 250,000 hacker scenario.
[04:58.310 --> 04:59.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here's what it actually says.
[05:00.130 --> 05:08.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Estimates of the number of computer attacks are based on DISA's vulnerability analysis and assessment program.
[05:09.370 --> 05:21.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Under this program, DISA, which I believe is Defense Information Security Agency, DISA personnel attempt to penetrate computer systems of various military service and defense agency sites via the Internet.
[05:21.790 --> 05:32.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Since the program's inception in 1992, DISA has conducted 38,000 attacks on defense computer systems to test how well they were protected.
[05:32.590 --> 05:36.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: DISA successfully gained access 65% of the time.
[05:36.850 --> 05:45.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of these successful attacks, only 988, or about 4%, were detected by the target organizations.
[05:45.710 --> 05:52.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of those detected, only 267 attacks, or roughly 27%, were reported to DISA.
[05:52.550 --> 06:00.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Therefore, only about 1 in 150 successful attacks drew an active defensive response from the organizations being tested.
[06:00.070 --> 06:11.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: They used these numbers to calculate that there must be 250,000 hackers out there, and of those 65% were successful.
[06:11.370 --> 06:15.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, keep in mind, these are Defense Department employees that are trying this in the first place.
[06:15.910 --> 06:20.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: They know a few of the holes, they know a few of the defaults, of the bugs, things like that.
[06:20.150 --> 06:29.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's just amazing they would actually use this to calculate how many real hackers there are, and that everybody would believe them.
[06:29.870 --> 06:37.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: 38,000 attacks, 24,700 of which succeed, 988 detected, 267 reported.
[06:38.850 --> 06:44.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, they reached the conclusion that 23,712 went undetected, 96%.
[06:44.290 --> 06:50.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Air Force conducts similar vulnerability assessments, according to this document.
[06:50.670 --> 06:55.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Its data shows better success in detecting and reacting to attacks than DISA's data.
[06:55.990 --> 07:10.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: However, defense officials generally acknowledge that because the Air Force's Computer Emergency Response Team resources are larger and more experienced, they have had better success in detecting and reacting to attacks than either the Navy or the Army.
[07:12.030 --> 07:14.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: DISA also maintains data on officially reported attacks.
[07:14.930 --> 07:17.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, here's... these are the real attacks.
[07:17.530 --> 07:30.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Defense installations reported 53 attacks in 1992, 115 in 1993, 255 in 1994, and 559 in 1995.
[07:30.390 --> 07:32.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Quite a bit different from the figures we've been given.
[07:32.630 --> 07:43.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: But because they weren't able to detect their own intrusions, they're kind of saying that, well, there must be the same failure rate, so therefore, there's an army of 250,000 hackers.
[07:43.950 --> 07:45.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's pretty simple, I guess, to understand.
[07:46.910 --> 07:47.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[07:47.950 --> 07:48.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[07:49.050 --> 07:52.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: And finally, we have this story about the new telephones that are coming.
[07:53.070 --> 07:54.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Brand new telephone service.
[07:55.290 --> 07:56.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: New kind of cellular.
[07:57.410 --> 08:00.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's something we've known about for quite some time called PCS.
[08:01.450 --> 08:01.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right.
[08:02.030 --> 08:03.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Personal Communication Services.
[08:04.570 --> 08:11.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: And what it means, basically, these phones are a lot lower power than cellular phones, which means they have to have more antennas.
[08:11.470 --> 08:16.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: And these antennas have to be closer to the street because people in cities will be walking around the street on them.
[08:16.350 --> 08:24.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: You notice that's not happening in New York City, but if you go to virtually any other city in the world, people everywhere are talking to themselves on these phones, just walking up and down the streets.
[08:24.250 --> 08:26.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: It looks pretty silly, but that seems to be what's happening.
[08:27.170 --> 08:37.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Not in New York, though, because of the high rates and also the crowded service where you keep running into interference and getting knocked off and horrible things like that.
[08:38.950 --> 08:49.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: But there's a company called Omnipoint Communications, and they're among the first that will be bringing this new form of wireless telephone service to the city.
[08:50.270 --> 08:54.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: I believe Sprint is also involved, and possibly MCI and other companies.
[08:55.370 --> 09:02.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: What they're doing is they're mounting antennas all over the city, about six or less stories from the ground.
[09:03.230 --> 09:04.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: And there was an article in the New York Times.
[09:04.850 --> 09:07.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: This was dated Monday, August 19th.
[09:07.590 --> 09:13.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you want a good representation of how it all works, it's a diagram of how the phone calls are made.
[09:13.050 --> 09:15.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: A person makes a call using a PCS phone.
[09:15.250 --> 09:18.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: The phones look like cellular phones, but are smaller and use digital technology.
[09:19.950 --> 09:22.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: They also happen to be a lot more secure.
[09:22.870 --> 09:26.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: In other words, you can't just tune in like you can with cellular phones.
[09:27.370 --> 09:29.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: A PCS antenna picks up the signal.
[09:30.130 --> 09:36.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Most of the antennas will be attached to buildings at the third or fourth floor to provide the best reception for people at street level.
[09:37.190 --> 09:40.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: A base station in or on the building routes the call.
[09:40.770 --> 09:45.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Calls are handed off from one base station to the next via controllers as a person moves.
[09:45.010 --> 09:51.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the signal travels to a public-switching telephone network that sends the call to the person on the other end.
[09:52.030 --> 09:58.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, I guess if you're a building somewhere, if you own a building, rather, you might be interested in mounting one of these antennas.
[09:58.790 --> 10:00.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Maybe they give you a discount if you do that.
[10:01.710 --> 10:09.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hundreds of PCS networks are being built around the nation, but New York City is the largest and potentially the most lucrative PCS network.
[10:10.910 --> 10:12.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: In order to...
[10:13.330 --> 10:15.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: If I can continue here...
[10:15.530 --> 10:23.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: To make it in New York City, they have to figure out how to construct a wireless network that stretches from Wall Street to Washington Heights without any holes.
[10:24.610 --> 10:32.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: That means negotiating with hundreds of landlords, co-op boards for rights to put the skateboard-sized antennas on window ledges and walls every ten blocks or so.
[10:32.510 --> 10:39.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then, you have to persuade suspicious New Yorkers to sign up for a new kind of phone service from a company they'd never heard of before.
[10:40.090 --> 10:43.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, that's what Omnipoint is facing.
[10:44.190 --> 10:50.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Also, Sprint Spectrum will be entering this market and Cox Enterprises, I believe, as well.
[10:51.050 --> 10:53.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, this will be starting around November.
[10:53.350 --> 11:02.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: You'll start seeing these new tiny little phones around with better technology, more secure way of making phone calls and cheaper rates, from what I understand.
[11:02.950 --> 11:05.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, we'll see where that goes.
[11:05.910 --> 11:11.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Where we're going to go now is someplace we went last week and someplace that I think we need to go to again.
[11:11.950 --> 11:14.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Someplace that we need to visit as many times as necessary.
[11:20.660 --> 11:29.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, it's time for another edition of Confuse the Operator where we reach out and try and sort of test the level of operator awareness.
[11:30.460 --> 11:35.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: After all, operators are running the telephone network, which is the, if you will, lifeline of this country.
[11:35.940 --> 11:38.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: We need to know that they are alert.
[11:38.540 --> 11:46.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, we have a particular question that I've been asking people this all day and so far everyone seems to have gotten it right.
[11:47.600 --> 11:48.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Namely, regarding ISDN.
[11:49.520 --> 11:51.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: What does ISDN stand for?
[11:51.800 --> 11:52.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Does anybody know?
[11:52.620 --> 11:53.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Everybody in this room knows.
[11:54.700 --> 11:56.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Integrated Systems Services?
[11:58.000 --> 11:59.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Digital Network, right?
[11:59.400 --> 11:59.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Which is it?
[12:00.040 --> 12:00.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Systems or services?
[12:01.520 --> 12:02.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, we seem to be split on that one.
[12:03.420 --> 12:04.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, uh, it's okay.
[12:04.980 --> 12:05.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're not operators.
[12:05.600 --> 12:06.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: We don't run the phone company.
[12:06.300 --> 12:06.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're not supposed to know this.
[12:07.380 --> 12:09.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Actually, you would know.
[12:11.000 --> 12:11.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Come up to the microphone.
[12:11.940 --> 12:12.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Tell us what it is.
[12:12.700 --> 12:14.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Integrated Systems Digital Network.
[12:14.360 --> 12:14.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[12:15.140 --> 12:16.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: That is the official answer.
[12:16.740 --> 12:18.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: We will accept no other answer.
[12:18.840 --> 12:20.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: That is the official answer.
[12:20.980 --> 12:21.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[12:21.660 --> 12:24.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, now what we do is...
[12:24.340 --> 12:25.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Can we get a dial tone?
[12:25.300 --> 12:25.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[12:26.460 --> 12:28.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: Which operator should know this?
[12:28.560 --> 12:31.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: I would say the O operator should know this.
[12:31.820 --> 12:32.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[12:32.140 --> 12:36.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, let's get the O operator, which in our case will be the 9-O operator.
[12:37.460 --> 12:37.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[12:38.300 --> 12:40.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm not sure if that 9 went through, so let's try that again.
[12:42.780 --> 12:43.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[12:43.140 --> 12:44.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: That was definitely a 9.
[12:44.400 --> 12:45.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: And there's a 0.
[12:45.440 --> 12:46.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: And there's an echo.
[12:46.080 --> 12:47.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know why there's an echo.
[12:48.440 --> 12:49.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a horrible echo.
[12:51.300 --> 12:51.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[12:51.660 --> 12:53.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm going to lose that line and try a different line.
[12:54.640 --> 12:55.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's try this.
[12:57.200 --> 12:57.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[12:57.560 --> 12:57.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Any better?
[12:58.040 --> 12:58.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Much better.
[13:06.140 --> 13:07.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully, this won't be a machine.
[13:09.720 --> 13:10.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: NYNEX, Ms. Van.
[13:10.800 --> 13:11.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hi.
[13:11.360 --> 13:15.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, I'm interested in your ISDN service that NYNEX offers.
[13:15.540 --> 13:18.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: I was wondering if you could tell me what ISDN stands for.
[13:19.320 --> 13:20.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll connect you with the supervisor.
[13:20.920 --> 13:21.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hold on.
[13:21.000 --> 13:21.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.
[13:21.680 --> 13:22.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're welcome.
[13:23.760 --> 13:26.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Always be polite when you're talking to operators.
[13:26.480 --> 13:27.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's lesson number one.
[13:28.740 --> 13:30.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because you never know when you might run into an operator.
[13:31.600 --> 13:31.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[13:31.860 --> 13:32.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is it Ms. Rue?
[13:32.800 --> 13:33.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[13:33.220 --> 13:33.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hi.
[13:33.540 --> 13:35.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm just trying to find out information about ISDN.
[13:35.640 --> 13:38.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: I was wondering if you could tell me what ISDN stands for.
[13:38.880 --> 13:39.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[13:39.280 --> 13:39.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hold on, sir.
[13:40.140 --> 13:40.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you very much.
[13:45.560 --> 13:45.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[13:46.780 --> 13:47.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: ISDN.
[13:47.520 --> 13:53.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: This mystical, magical phone thing I can't seem to quite get my hands on.
[13:58.430 --> 14:00.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Learning out what ISDN stands for.
[14:00.830 --> 14:02.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's my goal.
[14:18.100 --> 14:18.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Operator, are you there?
[14:20.940 --> 14:21.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Operator, are you there?
[14:22.500 --> 14:22.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[14:22.940 --> 14:23.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: That means we can say stuff.
[14:25.060 --> 14:26.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or play music without her hearing.
[14:32.200 --> 14:34.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: That must be what's going through her mind right now.
[14:36.600 --> 14:39.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Trying to find out what ISDN...
[14:40.660 --> 14:41.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[14:41.120 --> 14:42.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, let's suffice to say it's not on the tip of their tongues.
[14:43.060 --> 14:44.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: So let's go to another operator.
[14:45.740 --> 14:47.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: And this one, I think, would be more appropriate.
[14:48.380 --> 14:50.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll go to information.
[14:51.220 --> 14:51.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay?
[14:52.320 --> 14:53.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Can we get a dial tone?
[14:54.820 --> 14:56.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Our phones don't work anymore.
[14:56.100 --> 14:56.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: We can't get dial tones.
[14:57.680 --> 14:58.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's try this one.
[15:00.040 --> 15:00.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: There we go.
[15:01.480 --> 15:03.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: What a long delay that was, getting a dial tone.
[15:04.400 --> 15:05.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now we're going to dial information.
[15:09.960 --> 15:11.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Information should know this.
[15:11.720 --> 15:13.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to NYNEX Directory Assistance.
[15:14.120 --> 15:14.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, boy.
[15:14.880 --> 15:15.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: What city?
[15:16.260 --> 15:18.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, I just really need a question answered.
[15:19.620 --> 15:20.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: What listing?
[15:20.660 --> 15:21.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, you don't get it.
[15:21.620 --> 15:22.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just need a question answered.
[15:23.000 --> 15:23.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Please, just a question.
[15:24.880 --> 15:25.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you.
[15:27.660 --> 15:29.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Which is worse, machines are humans.
[15:33.140 --> 15:34.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, what question?
[15:34.280 --> 15:34.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm sorry.
[15:34.920 --> 15:35.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're talking to a recording.
[15:35.860 --> 15:36.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't get it.
[15:36.520 --> 15:36.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I know.
[15:36.820 --> 15:37.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't understand.
[15:37.620 --> 15:37.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know.
[15:38.280 --> 15:40.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: And those recordings are replacing people, aren't they?
[15:40.540 --> 15:41.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, we're still here.
[15:41.520 --> 15:41.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, that's good.
[15:42.120 --> 15:44.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: I was just wondering if you could answer a question for me.
[15:44.200 --> 15:44.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm trying to find out.
[15:45.040 --> 15:46.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm getting ISDN phone service.
[15:46.420 --> 15:49.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know what ISDN stands for, and NYNEX offers it.
[15:49.260 --> 15:50.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is there anybody there that knows?
[15:51.540 --> 15:51.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: ISDN?
[15:52.000 --> 15:52.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[15:52.880 --> 15:53.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh.
[15:53.360 --> 15:55.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll give you the supervisor for that one.
[15:55.320 --> 15:55.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you very much.
[15:55.840 --> 15:56.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're welcome.
[15:56.400 --> 15:56.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[15:59.100 --> 16:00.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: Always good to know where to go afterwards.
[16:17.140 --> 16:18.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: I hope this isn't the same supervisor.
[16:31.010 --> 16:33.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, well, I guess...
[16:34.890 --> 16:37.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: I guess information supervisors aren't the easiest people to track down.
[16:37.810 --> 16:38.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Maybe other people are asking questions.
[16:40.290 --> 16:41.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Supervisor, Mrs. Cronin, can I help you?
[16:42.130 --> 16:42.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, hi.
[16:42.770 --> 16:45.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm trying to find out what ISDN stands for, the service that NYNEX offers.
[16:46.190 --> 16:47.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you have that information?
[16:48.190 --> 16:48.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: ISDN?
[16:48.730 --> 16:48.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[16:51.890 --> 16:53.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: ISDN, I have no idea.
[16:53.950 --> 16:56.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, I'll keep trying other offices then.
[16:56.730 --> 16:57.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks anyway.
[16:57.590 --> 16:58.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're welcome.
[16:58.310 --> 16:58.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Bye-bye.
[16:58.630 --> 16:58.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Bye-bye.
[16:59.550 --> 17:01.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Like I said, always be polite to operators.
[17:01.390 --> 17:03.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: You never know when one will come in handy.
[17:04.050 --> 17:14.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: Again, just for the benefit of listeners and for any operators that might be listening, hoping that they get called next, the correct answer, the only correct answer again is...
[17:14.090 --> 17:17.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: It should be Integrated Services Digital Network.
[17:18.610 --> 17:19.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Was that what you said before?
[17:20.050 --> 17:20.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nope.
[17:20.650 --> 17:21.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: You were wrong?
[17:23.190 --> 17:25.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we've been going about this whole thing and we didn't have the right answer to start with.
[17:25.970 --> 17:27.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Can you imagine we could have been called on this?
[17:27.550 --> 17:29.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: It would have been the most embarrassing thing ever.
[17:29.350 --> 17:30.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, here's a bit of an update.
[17:30.030 --> 17:31.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: We wouldn't be on next week.
[17:31.030 --> 17:32.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was speaking to NYNEX today.
[17:32.530 --> 17:36.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: They've totally replaced their ISDN management team for all of NYNEX.
[17:36.150 --> 17:36.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: They do that every week?
[17:37.090 --> 17:38.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, apparently, yes.
[17:38.130 --> 17:42.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they refer to it today as systems, not services, to me on the phone as we were talking.
[17:42.550 --> 17:44.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, but NYNEX didn't invent it, did they?
[17:44.790 --> 17:46.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: They have to call it what it is.
[17:46.510 --> 17:47.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: They like to think they did.
[17:47.910 --> 17:48.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[17:48.810 --> 17:49.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: Fiberoptic, nice of you to join us.
[17:49.930 --> 17:50.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hi.
[17:50.530 --> 17:51.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: What does ISDN stand for?
[17:52.390 --> 17:53.750]  [SPEAKER_21]: Integrated Services Digital Network.
[17:53.990 --> 17:54.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[17:54.390 --> 17:55.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we both agree on this.
[17:55.470 --> 17:56.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: We all agree on this.
[17:56.290 --> 17:56.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[17:56.750 --> 17:57.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: One last shot.
[17:57.990 --> 17:58.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to give them one last shot.
[17:58.990 --> 18:00.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you think repairer might know?
[18:00.710 --> 18:01.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: What ISDN is?
[18:01.790 --> 18:01.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[18:01.890 --> 18:02.810]  [SPEAKER_21]: I seriously doubt it.
[18:03.550 --> 18:05.070]  [SPEAKER_21]: Actually, I take that back.
[18:05.970 --> 18:07.810]  [SPEAKER_21]: I don't know if the night people know what it is.
[18:07.950 --> 18:08.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: What is that echo?
[18:09.110 --> 18:10.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're getting on that line, too.
[18:11.410 --> 18:11.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[18:12.250 --> 18:13.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's try a better one.
[18:17.360 --> 18:17.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[18:20.400 --> 18:21.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Repair tends to know more things.
[18:21.960 --> 18:23.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you for calling NYNEX.
[18:23.340 --> 18:24.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Except you have to deal with this.
[18:24.320 --> 18:26.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: To help us expedite your call, listen to the instructions.
[18:26.820 --> 18:28.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you want to expedite the call, don't listen to the instructions.
[18:28.820 --> 18:29.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hit zero once.
[18:30.380 --> 18:31.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you're calling...
[18:31.140 --> 18:31.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then hit zero again.
[18:32.420 --> 18:35.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please hold while we transfer your call to a service representative.
[18:35.800 --> 18:36.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's how you expedite things.
[18:47.600 --> 18:49.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is NYNEX repairer, Francis.
[18:49.400 --> 18:50.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have the air recorded number.
[18:50.540 --> 18:51.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have the travel in place?
[18:51.480 --> 18:52.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Actually, I just have a quick question.
[18:53.080 --> 18:57.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you could tell me what ISDN stands for that the service NYNEX offers, do you have that information?
[19:00.320 --> 19:01.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who is this?
[19:01.440 --> 19:02.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm just a customer.
[19:03.500 --> 19:05.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Actually, I'm not a customer because I don't have a phone in the air.
[19:06.520 --> 19:07.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: But I know you offer ISDN.
[19:07.780 --> 19:08.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, wait a minute, wait.
[19:08.820 --> 19:09.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Where are you calling from?
[19:09.860 --> 19:10.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm calling from New York City.
[19:11.580 --> 19:14.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you want to know what that initial stands for?
[19:14.300 --> 19:17.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I see the commercials on TV for NYNEX ISDN service, but...
[19:17.140 --> 19:18.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: What do you call the number?
[19:18.880 --> 19:19.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: ISDN.
[19:19.440 --> 19:21.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but did you call the number, what you saw on TV?
[19:22.080 --> 19:23.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, I couldn't get through to that.
[19:23.900 --> 19:24.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: That was all busy.
[19:24.720 --> 19:28.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: I guess a lot of people are curious about it, but I was just wondering if you knew what ISDN stood for.
[19:28.400 --> 19:29.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: If someone could tell me what it means.
[19:30.940 --> 19:31.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: One moment, sir.
[19:31.900 --> 19:32.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[19:32.220 --> 19:33.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let me get my book here.
[19:33.440 --> 19:33.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[19:33.680 --> 19:36.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know what it means, but I just want to make sure I'm giving you the right information.
[19:36.500 --> 19:39.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, basically I just want to know what the four letters stand for, you know, ISDN.
[19:40.060 --> 19:41.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a regular dial tone line, you know.
[19:41.580 --> 19:44.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of people have those lines now when they have those computers.
[19:44.420 --> 19:44.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[19:44.840 --> 19:46.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like the modem hookup.
[19:46.120 --> 19:47.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, like the internet and all that.
[19:47.660 --> 19:48.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the data system.
[19:48.840 --> 19:49.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I've heard about that.
[19:49.860 --> 19:53.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, okay, but that's, you know, really what they are used for.
[19:54.180 --> 19:54.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[19:54.280 --> 19:57.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's better than the regular, you know, dial tone line.
[19:57.640 --> 19:57.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: I see.
[19:58.040 --> 19:59.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's still a dial tone line.
[19:59.420 --> 19:59.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[20:00.020 --> 20:05.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of people that have, like you said, the computers and modems, they have more juice to it, as they call it.
[20:06.040 --> 20:06.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: More juice, yeah.
[20:06.900 --> 20:07.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[20:07.300 --> 20:07.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[20:08.100 --> 20:09.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just let me see what it means.
[20:09.700 --> 20:10.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, ISDN.
[20:10.440 --> 20:11.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, there's no J's in there.
[20:12.180 --> 20:13.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, I'm not saying...
[20:13.500 --> 20:14.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know there's no J's, but that's...
[20:14.660 --> 20:16.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, I'm just trying to figure it out on my own.
[20:16.020 --> 20:19.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, I have a book on it, but I wasn't expecting this.
[20:20.100 --> 20:20.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[20:20.460 --> 20:21.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have six phones.
[20:21.260 --> 20:22.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't, you know, no...
[20:22.120 --> 20:22.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hold on for a minute.
[20:22.940 --> 20:23.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[20:29.870 --> 20:31.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think I hear her on crosstalk.
[20:33.610 --> 20:36.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, in any event, um...
[20:38.950 --> 20:39.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[20:39.650 --> 20:42.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: See, we can't really stay on forever.
[20:42.510 --> 20:45.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Fiber, any suggestions as to what we should do at this point?
[20:46.390 --> 20:48.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, how badly do you want to know that they know?
[20:49.190 --> 20:50.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just want to know.
[20:50.190 --> 20:51.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Somebody out there knows.
[20:51.130 --> 20:53.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: But this is answering a lot of questions for me.
[20:53.230 --> 20:58.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because, well, as you know, I haven't had the best of luck with this particular, uh, field over the past year.
[20:59.090 --> 20:59.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hello?
[20:59.230 --> 20:59.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Ah, yes.
[20:59.770 --> 20:59.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hello.
[21:00.130 --> 21:06.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, it means integrated service physical network.
[21:06.750 --> 21:07.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[21:07.590 --> 21:07.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Great.
[21:08.090 --> 21:08.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you very much.
[21:09.350 --> 21:09.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you.
[21:11.250 --> 21:11.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: She got it.
[21:12.090 --> 21:12.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: She got it.
[21:12.770 --> 21:14.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: One operator got it out of all of them.
[21:14.270 --> 21:16.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it was the repair service operator.
[21:16.690 --> 21:20.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Repair wins the competition of this week's Confuse the Operator segment.
[21:21.710 --> 21:23.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: I guess we should send them a prize of some sort.
[21:24.210 --> 21:24.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know.
[21:25.450 --> 21:34.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: But if you have any suggestions as to things you'd like us to confuse operators with, please send them in to Off the Hook, care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[21:43.040 --> 21:43.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, enough of that.
[21:43.970 --> 21:48.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, uh, Fiber, we have something, some new, uh, bit of information that we, uh, on...
[21:48.320 --> 21:48.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: What do you have?
[21:48.670 --> 21:49.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: Something there?
[21:49.230 --> 21:49.580]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, yeah.
[21:49.730 --> 21:50.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: I've got a couple of things.
[21:50.560 --> 21:51.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm unaware of this.
[21:51.670 --> 21:52.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, actually, yeah.
[21:52.260 --> 21:52.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Something you just brought in.
[21:52.880 --> 21:53.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, tell me about this.
[21:53.840 --> 21:54.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: A late-breaking news item.
[21:55.060 --> 21:56.190]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, late-breaking news.
[21:56.360 --> 22:00.040]  [SPEAKER_21]: Actually, this is, uh, this is a case of, uh, old science meets new science.
[22:00.220 --> 22:00.380]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[22:00.380 --> 22:03.980]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, it's a way that you could, um, send telexes by email.
[22:04.480 --> 22:05.930]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I just thought it was rather neat.
[22:06.080 --> 22:07.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: Who sends telexes?
[22:07.450 --> 22:13.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, you see, you never know when you might find yourself in some institution and they have a little teletype machine in the corner.
[22:14.000 --> 22:15.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: And you want to, you know, you want to play with them.
[22:15.430 --> 22:19.640]  [SPEAKER_21]: Now, telex dates back to, like, the 18th century or something.
[22:20.220 --> 22:20.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, 19.
[22:20.820 --> 22:21.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Whatever.
[22:21.340 --> 22:22.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: People would send...
[22:22.460 --> 22:23.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, what is a telex?
[22:23.980 --> 22:24.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it was, uh...
[22:24.740 --> 22:26.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: You see a TWX numbers occasionally next to phone numbers.
[22:26.690 --> 22:27.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, that's Twix.
[22:27.740 --> 22:28.860]  [SPEAKER_21]: That was the next phase.
[22:29.170 --> 22:29.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: All right.
[22:29.480 --> 22:31.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: You're going to have to give us some history here.
[22:31.430 --> 22:31.500]  [SPEAKER_21]: All right.
[22:31.600 --> 22:32.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Start with telex and go to TWIX.
[22:33.280 --> 22:36.710]  [SPEAKER_21]: Telex was sort of a, uh, an outgrowth of, uh, Telegraph.
[22:36.840 --> 22:37.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[22:37.560 --> 22:42.240]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, sort of the, uh, it was sort of Western Union's answer to the modernization of, uh, Telegraph.
[22:42.430 --> 22:42.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[22:43.130 --> 22:55.460]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, essentially, uh, all throughout, uh, well, until modems became popular anyway, and, and, of course, fax machines, uh, telex machines are basically, uh, like a little teletype writer.
[22:55.460 --> 23:04.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: You've seen them a lot of, a lot of the time, if you've ever been in a news office, they still use telex machines, like when they receive, uh, associated press wires and UPI and so on.
[23:04.360 --> 23:04.980]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's telex.
[23:05.880 --> 23:21.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, um, essentially, if you're ever in one of these places, you could find out, um, if you happen to ever dial into somebody's telex machine, which usually operated 110 Baud, you could find out what somebody's telex ID is, and I know this from past experience,
[23:21.710 --> 23:24.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: you hit Control-E, and it tells you what their telex ID is.
[23:25.080 --> 23:25.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[23:25.430 --> 23:45.040]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, and, uh, if you ever wanted to send somebody email, this, essentially, uh, through, it looks like a gateway that's set up in conjunction with, uh, AT&T Mail and Western Union, and it actually converts, uh, telex addresses to email and then routes them through a gateway back to the telex machines over Western Union.
[23:45.040 --> 23:47.980]  [SPEAKER_21]: So I thought it was pretty neat, and I could, uh, give out the address.
[23:48.540 --> 24:00.040]  [SPEAKER_21]: The, uh, the actual address of the system is MHS, as in, uh, message handling, uh, handling system, dash WU, for Western Union, dot ATTMail.com.
[24:00.800 --> 24:14.620]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, what you do is, uh, the person that you want to send it to, you have to know somebody's eight-digit telex ID, and you put this, uh, funky, uh, X500 addressing scheme at the beginning, or I guess it would be X400.
[24:14.620 --> 24:19.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, if you do this on the net, you make their little telex machine type away.
[24:19.500 --> 24:25.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: So if you send them a subscription to, say, 10,000 use groups, then all of a sudden, their telex machine's going to burn a fuse.
[24:26.000 --> 24:26.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is that what you're saying?
[24:26.780 --> 24:27.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: Unfortunately, yeah.
[24:27.690 --> 24:31.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: I don't know of anybody, uh, using it for destructive means.
[24:31.380 --> 24:32.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, but, uh...
[24:32.540 --> 24:33.450]  [SPEAKER_21]: But it can be used.
[24:33.450 --> 24:34.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: It'll, it'll probably happen.
[24:34.620 --> 24:35.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: At 110 baud, I guess.
[24:35.740 --> 24:36.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is it still 110 baud?
[24:36.600 --> 24:37.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, it's still 110.
[24:37.930 --> 24:42.060]  [SPEAKER_21]: Some of them might be 300, but I, I don't think they ever found any reason to make them more than that.
[24:42.060 --> 24:44.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: Is this the system that, that is used for hearing impaired?
[24:44.760 --> 24:46.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, no, that's TDD.
[24:46.340 --> 24:47.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay, what's the difference?
[24:47.360 --> 24:56.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, well, TDD and TTY, um, the actual TTY machines that, uh, the hearing impaired use are, um, they're an odd speed.
[24:56.210 --> 24:58.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: I forget exactly what the speed is.
[24:58.260 --> 24:58.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[24:58.560 --> 25:01.710]  [SPEAKER_21]: Um, but, uh, it's not, it's not the same speed as telex.
[25:02.450 --> 25:02.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[25:03.840 --> 25:05.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, uh, that's pretty interesting, uh, bit of data.
[25:05.450 --> 25:08.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: Actually, I think it's, it's 50, 50 baud.
[25:08.120 --> 25:10.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: Somebody, somebody might, might call in and correct us.
[25:10.380 --> 25:13.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just don't understand why anybody would have, you know, one of these machines still.
[25:13.820 --> 25:16.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: So if someone out there has one, please call us and tell us why you have one.
[25:17.080 --> 25:19.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: And how much they're still paying Western Union to have one.
[25:19.020 --> 25:24.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, they're slow, they're big, they, they take up lots of paper, and you have to pay a lot more for them.
[25:24.360 --> 25:25.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, they have smaller ones now.
[25:25.740 --> 25:27.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: Didn't they have, they have one at, uh, Stony Brook, don't they?
[25:27.600 --> 25:29.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: They have, um, I guess so.
[25:30.040 --> 25:31.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, they get the, uh, AP Newswire.
[25:31.710 --> 25:35.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, you're talking about things that, that are, that are sent over, uh, newswires and things like that.
[25:35.580 --> 25:37.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, that's a, that's a lot faster than 110.
[25:37.560 --> 25:40.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's more like, you know, 2400 maybe at least.
[25:40.760 --> 25:42.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a, it's a dot matrix printer.
[25:42.260 --> 25:43.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's like an OP data printer.
[25:43.690 --> 25:46.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh, that's, that's how news is delivered to most, uh, most newsrooms.
[25:46.900 --> 25:50.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, it replaced the old, um, the old TTYs that made that newsroom sound.
[25:51.060 --> 25:53.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: And now newsrooms just sound like dot matrix printers going all the time.
[25:53.840 --> 26:00.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: But that, in turn, is being replaced by more intelligent systems where you just print out what you need onto a laser printer, and there's no sound at all.
[26:01.130 --> 26:06.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, when they crank up the newsroom sound on the radio, you know, the old news station, you don't hear anything anymore, and that's why.
[26:07.040 --> 26:10.860]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, for the, uh, technologically impaired, they still have, uh, Telex is still around.
[26:11.080 --> 26:17.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, you know, for a long time, in fact, uh, I don't know if you've ever watched Channel 5 News, uh, back before, before the Fox days, I think.
[26:18.280 --> 26:26.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: They used to crank up the sound of a newsroom, and it was this repeating loop that only went in about 10 seconds, and I don't think they realized how silly it sounded.
[26:26.300 --> 26:28.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, in fact, uh, 1010WINS used to do that.
[26:28.640 --> 26:29.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't think they do it anymore.
[26:29.690 --> 26:31.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: They had a teletype going in the background.
[26:31.360 --> 26:39.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, yeah, you sort of ask yourself, you know, it's the kind of radio station that still has teletypes, really the kind of station that's going to go out and pursue a news story, you know?
[26:40.080 --> 26:42.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, well, you have to wonder what kind of people are running it.
[26:42.840 --> 26:44.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, they actually got rid of that, I think.
[26:44.340 --> 26:44.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[26:44.480 --> 26:46.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's nice and modern-sounding now.
[26:46.360 --> 26:46.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[26:46.580 --> 26:47.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: And nice and quiet.
[26:48.220 --> 26:48.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[26:49.100 --> 26:55.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, um, that's the story with, uh, with TTYs and TWXs and TDDs and things like that.
[26:56.190 --> 26:56.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[26:57.480 --> 26:57.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Interesting.
[26:58.220 --> 27:03.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, uh, one of our, one of our listeners, one of our, actually, this, this showed up on our, our brand-new voicemail system.
[27:03.690 --> 27:04.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: Have you heard our voicemail system yet?
[27:05.100 --> 27:07.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, I don't know if I've heard it recently.
[27:07.360 --> 27:08.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, well, you should hear this.
[27:08.520 --> 27:08.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[27:08.950 --> 27:10.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, let me grab another dial tone here.
[27:12.000 --> 27:16.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can reach it at, uh, area code 516-473.
[27:18.520 --> 27:20.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: 2-6-2-6.
[27:23.970 --> 27:29.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: And many people are confused by the way the phone is picked up, so, uh, don't be confused when you hear this.
[27:31.190 --> 27:32.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, that's confusing.
[27:42.060 --> 27:45.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
[27:45.440 --> 27:49.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you need help, stay on the line, and a hacker will assist you shortly.
[27:50.560 --> 27:51.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, so that's, uh...
[27:51.600 --> 27:53.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome to the 2600 Voice BBS.
[27:53.700 --> 27:56.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's our Voice BBS system, and we have all kinds of fun things like that.
[27:56.780 --> 28:05.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: In there, people are making all kinds of discoveries and playing around with things, and one of, one of the people in there, uh, I guess we'll just call him Jake for now, um, made a discovery by Miss Dialing.
[28:06.180 --> 28:09.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that discovery was the 959 Exchange, which we've known about for some time.
[28:10.040 --> 28:10.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, yeah.
[28:10.580 --> 28:14.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: Where you get, I guess, all kinds of, of test recordings and, and things like that.
[28:14.180 --> 28:15.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, look what happens.
[28:15.280 --> 28:16.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm just going to grab a line at random here.
[28:16.980 --> 28:17.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Look what happens.
[28:18.180 --> 28:20.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, these, these lines are all fouled up tonight.
[28:21.200 --> 28:22.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, all kinds of weird noises.
[28:22.720 --> 28:24.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, that sounds like a nice one.
[28:25.380 --> 28:27.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to dial 959...
[28:27.940 --> 28:28.300]  ...
[28:28.300 --> 28:28.440]  ...
[28:28.440 --> 28:28.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: ...
[28:28.740 --> 28:29.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: ...
[28:46.090 --> 28:46.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: An ANAC number.
[28:47.470 --> 28:52.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Somehow, all the ANACs have been transferred over to 959, within New York City anyway.
[28:52.850 --> 28:55.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: We've tested this in a few places in New York, and it seems to work everywhere.
[28:55.690 --> 28:56.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: It doesn't work on the island.
[28:56.810 --> 28:58.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm not sure if it works in 718.
[28:58.950 --> 29:01.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, but for some reason, they're all showing up there.
[29:01.270 --> 29:02.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you heard that touch, Tom.
[29:02.370 --> 29:03.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's, uh, let's get that back again.
[29:04.310 --> 29:06.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you, um...
[29:07.290 --> 29:08.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think that's a star that they give you?
[29:09.190 --> 29:09.530]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[29:09.730 --> 29:11.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you hit a pound sign...
[29:11.790 --> 29:12.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is it only a pound sign or any key?
[29:13.070 --> 29:13.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Only a pound.
[29:13.830 --> 29:13.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[29:13.930 --> 29:15.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it's before it starts reading the number.
[29:15.270 --> 29:17.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hit a pound sign as soon as you hear the star and listen to what happens.
[29:21.340 --> 29:23.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: They give you your phone number in touch tone.
[29:23.800 --> 29:23.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[29:24.420 --> 29:25.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, why would anybody want that?
[29:26.060 --> 29:39.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: Um, if a lineman's standing up on a pole and he has, uh, a test set that can decode touch tones, like those little flip-top craft access terminals, then, uh, they're actually programmed to do ANAC and read back the number.
[29:40.180 --> 29:40.580]  [SPEAKER_21]: Interesting.
[29:40.700 --> 29:42.200]  [SPEAKER_21]: And convert it and display it on the screen.
[29:42.380 --> 29:43.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, that's a different voice.
[29:43.500 --> 29:53.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: I believe if we, if we call our regular ANAC number, which is 958, and in some places, 5-1-1, let's see what we hear when we do that.
[29:53.400 --> 29:54.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: It might be the same voice.
[29:54.220 --> 29:55.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: It might be a totally different voice.
[29:55.600 --> 29:59.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Two, seven, nine, three, four, zero, three.
[29:59.760 --> 30:00.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[30:00.720 --> 30:01.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, a different voice there.
[30:01.820 --> 30:04.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's see if 5-1-1 works for us, because it works in many places.
[30:06.800 --> 30:07.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, I don't think it will work.
[30:10.840 --> 30:11.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-uh.
[30:11.480 --> 30:12.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're sorry.
[30:12.300 --> 30:14.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[30:14.760 --> 30:16.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please check the number and dial again.
[30:17.500 --> 30:19.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or ask a hacker to help you.
[30:20.000 --> 30:20.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[30:20.760 --> 30:23.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, that's, that's a story with that, uh, new discovery there.
[30:24.300 --> 30:26.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, kinds of discoveries that we make every week.
[30:27.120 --> 30:28.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: 9-5-9 plus four digits.
[30:28.580 --> 30:31.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: What I'd like to know, though, is, how did this guy know that he misdialed?
[30:31.600 --> 30:35.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, to dial a number, he got the third number wrong.
[30:35.240 --> 30:37.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: He was dialing 9-5-something else.
[30:37.200 --> 30:41.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, I mean, how did he know to go back and dial 9-5-9 again?
[30:41.760 --> 30:42.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know?
[30:42.420 --> 30:45.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: When you dial a wrong number, usually, you know, you just dialed again.
[30:46.660 --> 30:50.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, he must have re-dialed, but then he was able to find out what number it was he dialed.
[30:51.280 --> 30:53.580]  [SPEAKER_21]: Maybe he's got a phone that displays what number you dialed.
[30:53.600 --> 30:54.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: That must be.
[30:55.020 --> 30:57.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or he can read touch tones with his ear.
[30:58.080 --> 30:58.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: Which you can do, right?
[30:59.100 --> 31:04.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, yeah, but, I mean, even, if it was me, then, as soon as I heard that I hit the wrong button, I would hang up and re-dial.
[31:05.080 --> 31:08.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: You mean, you listen, every time you dial, you listen to make sure the tones match what you were dialing?
[31:08.800 --> 31:09.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, sure.
[31:09.860 --> 31:10.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wow.
[31:10.380 --> 31:15.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, because, well, I have one of those phones that has the keypad on the receiver.
[31:15.200 --> 31:15.420]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[31:15.580 --> 31:17.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, sometimes I dial without looking.
[31:17.780 --> 31:18.360]  [SPEAKER_21]: You dial blind.
[31:18.520 --> 31:18.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[31:19.100 --> 31:19.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: I see.
[31:19.920 --> 31:24.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: You ever use one of those, those cocot phones where you dial touch tones and the touch tones don't match the buttons?
[31:24.760 --> 31:26.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, they scramble them so they sound all goofy.
[31:26.540 --> 31:27.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: Why do they do that?
[31:27.080 --> 31:28.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: I have absolutely no idea.
[31:28.660 --> 31:32.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, obviously, the phone company isn't hearing that, or the number would never go through.
[31:32.360 --> 31:32.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, they're not, yeah.
[31:32.520 --> 31:35.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: That would be fun, though, to scramble numbers and have everybody's numbers go...
[31:35.660 --> 31:38.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: You have to sort of figure out a little puzzle before you can dial anything.
[31:38.960 --> 31:40.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Only intelligent people can use the phone.
[31:40.580 --> 31:42.720]  [SPEAKER_21]: For the duration of this call, one will be two.
[31:42.860 --> 31:43.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[31:43.460 --> 31:44.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just remember that.
[31:44.360 --> 31:44.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[31:44.600 --> 31:45.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: You have something else?
[31:45.180 --> 31:51.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, actually, there's a really crummy magazine called Telecom, or as they like to call it, Tele.com.
[31:52.180 --> 31:53.660]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it's their summer reading special.
[31:53.660 --> 31:55.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: Are they Tele.com on the net?
[31:55.140 --> 31:56.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: I didn't check.
[31:56.220 --> 31:56.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: I sure hope so.
[31:57.020 --> 31:59.940]  [SPEAKER_21]: But this is their August issue, their summer reading special.
[32:00.380 --> 32:02.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it features true crime stories.
[32:02.920 --> 32:03.360]  [SPEAKER_21]: True crime.
[32:03.500 --> 32:03.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[32:03.680 --> 32:07.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: And in here we have a story about our very own Ed Cummings.
[32:07.940 --> 32:09.660]  [SPEAKER_21]: Nothing worse than a fake crime story.
[32:09.760 --> 32:09.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[32:10.300 --> 32:13.800]  [SPEAKER_21]: And the name of this article is Dial F for Felony.
[32:14.300 --> 32:14.800]  [SPEAKER_21]: Mm-hmm.
[32:16.520 --> 32:20.160]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it puts Ed in extremely favorable light.
[32:20.300 --> 32:21.500]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'll read you the subtitle.
[32:21.720 --> 32:21.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[32:21.940 --> 32:26.560]  [SPEAKER_21]: No one knows how much money Ed Cummings cost phone companies, and almost everyone is afraid to guess.
[32:26.800 --> 32:29.800]  [SPEAKER_21]: So you can imagine what the tone of the article is after that little lead-in.
[32:29.920 --> 32:30.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: Mm-hmm.
[32:31.000 --> 32:31.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: Interesting.
[32:31.800 --> 32:32.900]  [SPEAKER_21]: Did you read the whole thing, or...?
[32:32.900 --> 32:35.900]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, I just looked at choice parts of it.
[32:36.000 --> 32:42.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: But it basically, it does the recap of Ed in the parking lot at 7-Eleven, and the whole van incident with the police.
[32:43.980 --> 32:49.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: And so, if anybody can find this, I don't remember ever seeing this on any stands anywhere.
[32:49.520 --> 32:49.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm sure.
[32:50.100 --> 32:52.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm sure it's around in one of those.
[32:52.540 --> 32:58.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I mean, you find all these magazines in various, like, I think Tower would have it, or Hudson News, or any of those places down there.
[32:58.860 --> 33:02.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: If anybody is possessed enough to want to order it, it's put out by McGraw-Hill.
[33:02.420 --> 33:03.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Ah, I've heard of them.
[33:03.300 --> 33:03.460]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[33:03.800 --> 33:06.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, maybe there's a phone number on the inside or something, or...?
[33:06.320 --> 33:07.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, let's see.
[33:07.340 --> 33:08.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, you know it's tele.com.
[33:08.840 --> 33:09.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's got to be that, anyway.
[33:09.900 --> 33:10.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[33:10.400 --> 33:12.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: For them to actually say that on the front.
[33:12.300 --> 33:15.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, they have a fax number, if you want to fax them a...
[33:15.480 --> 33:16.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: What good is a fax number?
[33:16.280 --> 33:17.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, free subscription.
[33:17.220 --> 33:17.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's one of those things.
[33:18.180 --> 33:20.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: Free subscriptions to those people who are qualified.
[33:20.560 --> 33:20.860]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[33:21.060 --> 33:21.240]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right.
[33:22.080 --> 33:23.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: What you have to do is fill out one of these things and lie.
[33:23.700 --> 33:25.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, if you say you're a technical person of some sort.
[33:25.920 --> 33:27.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I mean, they pay for it with all the ads.
[33:27.900 --> 33:28.200]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, exactly.
[33:28.200 --> 33:29.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's where magazines make their money.
[33:29.280 --> 33:30.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know why all magazines aren't like that.
[33:31.380 --> 33:34.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, because some magazines don't like to take out ads from all these people.
[33:35.100 --> 33:39.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, but there's plenty of magazines that have plenty of ads, and you still have to pay money for them.
[33:39.020 --> 33:41.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: It would be nice if time were free to everybody who qualified.
[33:42.320 --> 33:42.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[33:43.020 --> 33:43.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, uh...
[33:44.500 --> 33:54.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it's weird, because you get those time offers in the mail, and, you know, you get it for, like, 20 bucks a year, whereas if you go out to the newsstands, you pay, like, you know, thousands of dollars a year, or whatever it costs.
[33:55.320 --> 33:56.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's just, uh...
[33:56.640 --> 34:00.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's absurd that they can offer such, you know, widely disparate, uh...
[34:00.140 --> 34:02.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, differentials in cost.
[34:02.840 --> 34:02.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hmm.
[34:03.360 --> 34:03.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, uh...
[34:03.920 --> 34:05.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, you say that's a favorable article.
[34:05.320 --> 34:05.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a good one.
[34:05.560 --> 34:06.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, no.
[34:06.180 --> 34:07.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: I say it's an unfavorable article.
[34:07.480 --> 34:08.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: You were being sarcastic.
[34:08.420 --> 34:09.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I was being sarcastic.
[34:09.480 --> 34:09.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a favorable article.
[34:09.980 --> 34:10.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[34:10.140 --> 34:10.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[34:10.880 --> 34:13.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, there aren't very many favorable articles yet.
[34:13.960 --> 34:18.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're still looking for the one in Internet Underground, which is a magazine I have not been able to find yet.
[34:18.960 --> 34:19.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's, uh...
[34:19.940 --> 34:21.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's the story that, uh...
[34:21.400 --> 34:26.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of course, started all the trouble when Ed received the fax and was placed back into Maximum.
[34:26.260 --> 34:26.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: He's, uh...
[34:26.960 --> 34:27.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: I haven't heard from him in a little while.
[34:28.100 --> 34:29.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: He's, um...
[34:29.160 --> 34:30.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: He's back in, uh...
[34:30.160 --> 34:32.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Minimum area, which he called from last week.
[34:32.780 --> 34:33.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh...
[34:33.100 --> 34:35.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: I do know he was being harassed mercilessly by the guards.
[34:35.860 --> 34:37.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: They woke him up at 2 in the morning, uh...
[34:37.460 --> 34:39.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: One day, demanding to know where his computer was.
[34:40.360 --> 34:40.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: What?
[34:40.880 --> 34:41.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, this is...
[34:41.580 --> 34:42.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is a bizarre story.
[34:42.520 --> 34:44.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Apparently, somebody, um...
[34:44.860 --> 34:46.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Somebody faxed something on his behalf.
[34:46.820 --> 34:48.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: He asked them to fax something to the...
[34:48.380 --> 34:52.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: To the prison officials, you know, some sort of an appeals form or something that needed to be received by a certain date.
[34:52.700 --> 34:52.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[34:52.820 --> 34:56.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: So he had somebody, I believe somebody in New York, fax the information to them.
[34:56.860 --> 34:57.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh...
[34:57.260 --> 34:58.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Which, you know, is not that big a deal.
[34:58.880 --> 34:59.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's what people do.
[35:00.300 --> 35:00.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh...
[35:00.700 --> 35:10.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: But since the fax was received late at night, these guards were convinced that that Ed had somehow, from his prison cell, managed to both make a phone call and use a computer to fax something to the prison.
[35:11.100 --> 35:12.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, I mean, this is...
[35:12.140 --> 35:19.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: They just threw him in Maximum and threatened him with nine more months in prison because of an illegal fax that somebody else sent.
[35:19.700 --> 35:27.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is that, you know, do they really think he's going to go out and smuggle a computer into a prison and fax something to the prison and raise all this attention?
[35:28.040 --> 35:29.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, it's really ridiculous.
[35:30.400 --> 35:31.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, of course they think that.
[35:32.240 --> 35:32.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: Mm-hmm.
[35:33.120 --> 35:33.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: They do.
[35:33.580 --> 35:33.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: They did.
[35:33.920 --> 35:34.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[35:34.240 --> 35:34.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[35:35.440 --> 35:39.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: But I think this was one thing they couldn't really pursue because it was just so ridiculous.
[35:39.840 --> 35:41.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: But they did harass him quite a lot.
[35:41.820 --> 35:43.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I don't know what's happened since then.
[35:43.260 --> 35:45.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: There have been all kinds of, you know, bad things happening.
[35:45.400 --> 35:52.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: I do know, we talked about this last week with the Tom Varney situation in Chicago, the Secret Service agent that put Bernie S.
[35:52.500 --> 35:52.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: away.
[35:54.260 --> 36:00.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's amazing how much information we're getting from people that are emailing us and seeing the website.
[36:01.020 --> 36:16.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: But basically, we reported last week that he was assigned to presidential detail at the Democratic Convention, which we thought was kind of odd for somebody in such a controversial light, I guess, to be promoted to something so prestigious.
[36:17.160 --> 36:19.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it seems, actually, he's doing just regular security.
[36:19.660 --> 36:23.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know if he was supposed to do regular security the whole time or if, God forbid, he got demoted.
[36:24.580 --> 36:30.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: But he is on the floor of the convention doing all kinds of basic security work.
[36:32.000 --> 36:34.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: And there should be some interesting pictures coming out.
[36:34.180 --> 36:41.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's people out there that are basically taping every single channel waiting to catch a glimpse of him doing something unfavorable.
[36:42.520 --> 36:45.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know how Secret Service agents react to having their picture taken.
[36:45.880 --> 36:47.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, on national TV, you can't really help it, can you?
[36:48.400 --> 36:55.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: So that's what we know so far, that he's still there and is on the floor doing some sort of security work.
[36:55.220 --> 36:56.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we'll see what happens.
[36:56.560 --> 37:00.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: If any protesters show up or if people forward more information to us.
[37:00.400 --> 37:05.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: The website, www.2600.com has a more thorough story on there.
[37:06.000 --> 37:09.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, of course, you can mail us at OTH, off the hook, at 2600.com.
[37:10.280 --> 37:12.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: Our phone number here, 212-279-3400.
[37:13.140 --> 37:23.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: If people want to give us a call, you're most welcome to and share your stories, your feelings, your ideas, your viewpoints on basic things that have been going on.
[37:23.960 --> 37:27.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: So I guess we should go to the phones.
[37:27.440 --> 37:27.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: Sure.
[37:27.900 --> 37:28.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[37:28.700 --> 37:29.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[37:29.420 --> 37:29.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[37:29.880 --> 37:30.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[37:30.820 --> 37:31.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[37:31.320 --> 37:31.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[37:31.640 --> 37:33.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on delay, so I'll turn your radio down.
[37:33.300 --> 37:33.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[37:33.780 --> 37:34.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[37:34.340 --> 37:34.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Getting it.
[37:35.280 --> 37:37.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, you're going to get very confused if you do that.
[37:37.320 --> 37:38.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll get confused, too.
[37:38.740 --> 37:39.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[37:39.380 --> 37:39.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
[37:39.960 --> 37:40.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did I just say that?
[37:40.780 --> 37:59.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a special report from American Telephone Consumers Council that on September 1st, a number of communities in your listening area will receive a slight reduction of $1.37 a month plus the tax, excuse me, that will be reduced.
[37:59.380 --> 38:04.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have flat rate service in these NYNEX areas.
[38:05.460 --> 38:07.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is a permanent change?
[38:07.340 --> 38:11.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a change that's guaranteed for the next four years.
[38:12.420 --> 38:18.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Buffalo got a bigger reduction a year ago, and that will last for five years.
[38:18.880 --> 38:24.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is this related to the fact that NYNEX was recently cited for having the worst service in the country?
[38:24.060 --> 38:24.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[38:24.980 --> 38:46.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: This was a deal that was made a number of months ago when NYNEX was asking for a major half-a-billion-dollar rate increase, and as people who were in the case looked over the information, it looked like with their planning to lay off thousands of workers and everything,
[38:46.500 --> 38:50.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: they would have a profit, not a reason for having a rate increase.
[38:51.040 --> 38:51.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[38:52.220 --> 38:53.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let me ask you something.
[38:53.340 --> 39:02.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Were you surprised at the revelation, I guess this past week, about the fact that NYNEX has been de-evolving in virtually every single department?
[39:03.260 --> 39:04.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Does that surprise you at all?
[39:05.240 --> 39:06.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes.
[39:06.360 --> 39:08.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it doesn't surprise me.
[39:08.240 --> 39:09.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know that...
[39:09.920 --> 39:11.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on just a minute.
[39:11.080 --> 39:12.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's NYNEX calling now.
[39:15.160 --> 39:15.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[39:16.280 --> 39:16.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[39:18.520 --> 39:31.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't surprise me because we knew that part of their plan was to, you know, lay off a lot of people, arrange for them to take early retirement, that kind of thing.
[39:32.400 --> 39:33.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you think that's a direct result?
[39:34.940 --> 39:38.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of them laying off all these people, that's why their service has gone down so much?
[39:38.600 --> 39:39.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, yes.
[39:39.700 --> 39:42.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: We issued a warning at that time.
[39:42.400 --> 39:51.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: We try to remind all the people who are involved in the case that there was a service crisis in 1960 or so.
[39:52.440 --> 39:53.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was so...
[39:53.400 --> 39:54.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you hold on just a minute?
[39:54.620 --> 39:54.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[39:55.280 --> 39:57.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: I imagine that's a very busy time over there.
[39:58.140 --> 39:58.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[40:00.140 --> 40:01.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, 212-279-3400.
[40:02.040 --> 40:03.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, here...
[40:03.080 --> 40:03.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[40:03.700 --> 40:04.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, go ahead.
[40:04.140 --> 40:04.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Here I did.
[40:06.680 --> 40:11.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: What happened then was that we had such a fantastic service...
[40:11.060 --> 40:12.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're getting more calls than we are.
[40:13.500 --> 40:13.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[40:14.360 --> 40:14.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[40:16.060 --> 40:18.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm on the radio right now.
[40:18.540 --> 40:18.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the phone.
[40:19.820 --> 40:20.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well...
[40:20.700 --> 40:20.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[40:21.560 --> 40:23.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, let me just tell you...
[40:23.040 --> 40:23.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[40:23.540 --> 40:26.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Can you basically tell us how people can get a hold of your organization?
[40:26.160 --> 40:27.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because I'm sure there's some listener interest in that.
[40:27.880 --> 40:31.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, 212-987-5514.
[40:31.820 --> 40:35.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, apparently a lot of people have that number already, but I guess more people will be calling.
[40:35.540 --> 40:37.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: And what is it your organization does?
[40:37.120 --> 40:48.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we usually represent the municipalities and so forth and trade unions and rate hearings where there are...
[40:48.680 --> 40:50.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, well, it sounds like you're doing a great job.
[40:51.000 --> 40:51.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[40:51.320 --> 40:54.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, all right, keep it up and let us know.
[40:54.460 --> 40:57.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, look in the paper if you have the...
[40:58.180 --> 41:04.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if you could identify where you are, and you'll see whether you...
[41:04.960 --> 41:11.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or ask your operator or your business office if you're eligible for the rate reduction that's taking place September 1st.
[41:11.440 --> 41:13.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: Somehow I think my operator won't know, but I'll try anyway.
[41:13.980 --> 41:15.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, but they'll... the business office...
[41:15.520 --> 41:17.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, not the operator, the business office.
[41:17.240 --> 41:17.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[41:17.360 --> 41:17.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: They'll know.
[41:17.880 --> 41:18.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[41:18.480 --> 41:19.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you very much.
[41:19.380 --> 41:19.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: Take care.
[41:19.900 --> 41:23.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, that's one operator we're unable to call is the business office, but that's because they're closed.
[41:23.500 --> 41:23.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[41:23.980 --> 41:26.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: They close at 8 o'clock, and that's when we go on the air.
[41:26.720 --> 41:27.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: I wonder if that's a coincidence.
[41:28.160 --> 41:30.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: AT&T, though, is open 24 hours a day.
[41:30.300 --> 41:38.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: In fact, all the long-distance companies are open 24 hours, and I suspect when NYNEX tries to enter the long-distance market that they will be forced to stay open 24 hours as well.
[41:39.480 --> 41:41.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: 212-279-3400.
[41:41.360 --> 41:41.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[41:41.860 --> 41:42.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[41:43.220 --> 41:43.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Go ahead.
[41:44.340 --> 41:44.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hello?
[41:44.900 --> 41:45.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[41:45.400 --> 41:46.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is this Emmanuel Goldstein?
[41:46.620 --> 41:47.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right, and you're on the air.
[41:47.840 --> 41:48.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, yes.
[41:48.500 --> 41:48.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[41:48.960 --> 41:51.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: You tried to stump the operators a little while ago.
[41:51.680 --> 41:54.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I'll stump the phone experts.
[41:54.320 --> 41:54.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[41:55.000 --> 41:55.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Ready to be stumped.
[41:55.980 --> 41:56.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Explain this.
[41:56.940 --> 41:57.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[41:57.640 --> 41:58.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: This happened two times.
[41:59.360 --> 42:06.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: I made a call from a payphone to a regular non-cellular phone.
[42:06.400 --> 42:07.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you call at this a few weeks ago?
[42:08.080 --> 42:11.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, and you couldn't answer it then, and I haven't had any answer since then.
[42:11.260 --> 42:14.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: So maybe now you've learned.
[42:14.340 --> 42:16.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Have you done it again since then?
[42:16.760 --> 42:18.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I haven't tried it since then, but I...
[42:18.760 --> 42:22.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: I believe we asked you to try it again under different circumstances, like calling different phones.
[42:22.340 --> 42:24.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, first of all, tell us what the problem is, so we can recap the listeners.
[42:25.000 --> 42:25.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[42:25.560 --> 42:37.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I called from a payphone, and I got the cellular message, welcome to AT&T wireless services, instead of, you know, just connecting with the regular phone.
[42:37.640 --> 42:37.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Mm-hmm.
[42:38.340 --> 42:41.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: So you called from a regular payphone to what you thought was a regular telephone.
[42:41.920 --> 42:42.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[42:42.540 --> 42:43.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: In a house, a business, what?
[42:44.480 --> 42:47.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, this was from a school, actually.
[42:47.500 --> 42:50.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, I guess you could say a business, a school, to a house.
[42:51.440 --> 42:53.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, but it was a payphone in the school.
[42:53.460 --> 42:53.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[42:53.940 --> 42:57.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, and you were calling to a house, and you got the AT&T welcome to...
[42:57.980 --> 42:59.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: AT&T wireless.
[43:00.320 --> 43:10.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, and you did this on more than one occasion, and I believe we asked you to try to call different numbers, like similar numbers, see if you got the same thing, and to try calling that number from a different number as well.
[43:10.660 --> 43:13.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, well, that, no, that number works from any other number.
[43:13.360 --> 43:15.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's only this particular payphone that does it.
[43:15.800 --> 43:17.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I didn't try from that payphone again.
[43:17.660 --> 43:17.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[43:17.860 --> 43:18.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a NYNEX payphone.
[43:19.300 --> 43:20.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yeah, yeah.
[43:20.720 --> 43:23.200]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you're just dialing, you're putting a quarter in, and you're dialing that way.
[43:23.360 --> 43:23.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[43:24.660 --> 43:27.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, did this happen on the same day, or did this happen?
[43:27.280 --> 43:33.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it happened, um, oh, uh, about a week, uh, two incidents were like within a week apart.
[43:33.840 --> 43:35.120]  [SPEAKER_23]: And what happens when you stay on the line?
[43:35.200 --> 43:36.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Does it just hang up on you, or does it connect you to something?
[43:37.240 --> 43:38.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, it just disconnects.
[43:39.000 --> 43:39.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just disconnects.
[43:39.940 --> 43:40.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[43:40.980 --> 43:42.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: It never connects to the other phone.
[43:42.520 --> 43:46.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I mean, I would say that, uh, the payphone probably has nothing to do with it.
[43:47.020 --> 43:48.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's got to have something to do with, with, with routing.
[43:49.080 --> 43:49.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: What do you think, Father?
[43:49.480 --> 43:54.820]  [SPEAKER_21]: I would, I would just recommend calling, uh, different numbers on the same payphone and see if they react the same way.
[43:55.040 --> 43:56.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: Did you call the numbers on that same payphone?
[43:56.940 --> 44:01.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, I haven't, I, well, there's, I haven't had access to that phone in a little while, so...
[44:01.420 --> 44:01.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[44:01.780 --> 44:14.500]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's possible that, uh, the payphone just, you know, routes calls wrong, or, or just, you know, I don't know, I've seen weird things happen with payphones before, Or where they disconnect you to the wrong number, or they give you the wrong rate, or they even make calls for free,
[44:14.640 --> 44:16.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: you know, if you call a certain place.
[44:16.420 --> 44:22.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: There was a payphone once at a major... I don't want to give it out, but a major college campus in the Stony Brook area.
[44:25.680 --> 44:26.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: And basically... All right.
[44:27.880 --> 44:29.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Some people might know where that is.
[44:29.120 --> 44:35.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: But basically there was a payphone there that when you called any place in the world, it just wouldn't ask for any money.
[44:36.080 --> 44:41.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's amazing because people knew about this for weeks, and you'd think that lines would develop, but people were afraid of the phone.
[44:41.680 --> 44:47.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: They thought that it was a trap of some sort, because, you know, when you go to a phone and make a free phone call, someone must know about it, you know.
[44:47.840 --> 44:51.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Eventually, you know, you'll have to pay the piper, so phones do weird things sometimes.
[44:52.080 --> 44:57.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I've had phones that return money or, you know, made free calls and stuff like that, but never anything like this.
[44:57.180 --> 44:59.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you've never heard of this happening to anyone either.
[44:59.840 --> 45:00.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, that's weird.
[45:02.420 --> 45:08.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Basically, it would help if you knew what number you were being connected to, because there are numbers you can call that will give you that recording.
[45:09.180 --> 45:12.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Obviously, it's routing to that number for some reason, but we don't know why.
[45:13.340 --> 45:15.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's probably the central office, not the payphone itself.
[45:16.180 --> 45:16.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[45:16.580 --> 45:16.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[45:17.200 --> 45:17.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[45:17.560 --> 45:18.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for calling.
[45:18.040 --> 45:18.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good luck.
[45:18.420 --> 45:18.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Bye.
[45:29.840 --> 45:30.180]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, yeah.
[45:30.460 --> 45:33.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: We kind of need one or two more details, I think.
[45:33.480 --> 45:40.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, putting that possibility aside, though, if you just rewire a couple of things in the phone, then, you know, you'll get all kinds of wrong numbers, and you'll get them consistently from that phone.
[45:40.740 --> 45:41.740]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, but why?
[45:42.080 --> 45:43.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know why.
[45:43.220 --> 45:46.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Who can explain why people do these things, but they do happen.
[45:47.440 --> 45:52.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: Talking about weird phones, I never mentioned this, but there's a special phone, a very special phone for me.
[45:52.600 --> 45:53.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a place in my heart.
[45:54.880 --> 45:57.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: I found it in Las Vegas, all right?
[45:57.740 --> 45:58.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'll never forget this.
[45:58.920 --> 46:05.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: I was walking down in the hotel where they... basically, it's the hotel that has the thing that shoots you up into space, you know?
[46:05.940 --> 46:07.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a big tower thing.
[46:07.540 --> 46:13.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: You get strapped in, and they shoot you up at, you know, from zero to 45 in, like, a millionth of a second.
[46:14.460 --> 46:17.980]  [SPEAKER_23]: And basically, you feel like you're in a rocket ship, or you think you feel like you're in a rocket ship.
[46:18.580 --> 46:20.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's pretty scary, but that's what the hotel was.
[46:20.720 --> 46:22.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's, you know, it's the pathway towards that.
[46:22.800 --> 46:26.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: And there was... all the phones in Las Vegas hotels are co-cuts, all right?
[46:26.420 --> 46:28.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: They're all the same brand, too.
[46:28.920 --> 46:31.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, considering a lot of those companies are in Las Vegas...
[46:31.300 --> 46:31.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's true, too.
[46:32.120 --> 46:37.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: I went to this one phone, just picked it at random, just like I was picking the slot machines at random and getting payoffs.
[46:37.480 --> 46:43.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: But this phone was the biggest payoff of all those quarter machines, because I threw a quarter in.
[46:43.460 --> 46:47.660]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, basically, I called a number, and I threw a quarter in, and the quarter came out again.
[46:47.660 --> 46:51.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: But the phone acted as if I had put the quarter in.
[46:52.200 --> 46:57.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: So it doesn't take much to realize that all I had to do was keep putting the same quarter in, getting it back, putting it in again.
[46:57.180 --> 46:58.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, it looked like I was putting money in.
[46:58.960 --> 47:00.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's the ultimate red box.
[47:00.400 --> 47:04.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: You just keep putting the same quarter in, and it comes back out, and, you know, you just keep doing this thing.
[47:04.980 --> 47:08.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the call goes through, and you can call anywhere in the world.
[47:08.560 --> 47:10.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it was just the most amazing thing.
[47:10.100 --> 47:18.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, I'm not going to say if I, you know, took advantage of this, but basically it was kind of a scary thing, because you're there in a very populated corridor, security people everywhere.
[47:18.340 --> 47:20.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: Who knows why this phone is doing this?
[47:20.380 --> 47:21.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Who knows who knows about it?
[47:21.520 --> 47:24.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: So you've got to be, you know, kind of careful when you're playing around with things like that.
[47:25.040 --> 47:27.400]  [SPEAKER_21]: Were you near any of those silver bubbles hanging from the ceiling?
[47:27.400 --> 47:27.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: Of course, no.
[47:27.480 --> 47:30.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can't go anywhere in Vegas without one of those silver bubbles being visible.
[47:31.480 --> 47:32.720]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're always on camera.
[47:32.820 --> 47:36.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: So that's one of the reasons I was kind of, like, you know, hesitant about even using that phone.
[47:36.980 --> 47:38.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: But it just, it basically fell out of the sky.
[47:38.620 --> 47:41.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: I went to one phone, put a quarter in, it came back out, free calls to anywhere.
[47:43.220 --> 47:45.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: So it was pretty weird.
[47:46.220 --> 47:47.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: I didn't do anything, though.
[47:48.480 --> 47:52.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just found it, and then, you know, I just, I said, wow, that's kind of cool.
[47:53.920 --> 47:56.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, so, 212-279-3400.
[47:56.400 --> 47:57.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: You never know what you're going to find out there.
[47:58.060 --> 47:59.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that goes for our callers, too.
[47:59.440 --> 47:59.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[48:00.820 --> 48:01.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, good evening.
[48:01.740 --> 48:02.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: WBAI?
[48:02.300 --> 48:03.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, you're on the air.
[48:03.240 --> 48:04.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I got on.
[48:04.200 --> 48:16.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just came back from Denver to a hair airport, and I was surprised I didn't get asked concerning various things I was carrying with me, such as a pocket scanner, other various electronic equipment going through the x-ray system.
[48:16.720 --> 48:17.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's a good question.
[48:17.700 --> 48:24.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, we had all kinds of bizarre electronic equipment going through with us on the way to Vegas and back, and nobody said anything at any time.
[48:24.700 --> 48:31.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, I don't know if they know what a frequency counter is, or, you know, all these radio scanners and things like that, but it didn't set off any flags.
[48:32.800 --> 48:34.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: I did read the article on Tell.com.
[48:35.340 --> 48:42.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's accurate, but, you know, in the light of, you know, being able to listen to you guys on the air, you get the, you know, you get the, I'll say the better or the different side of the story.
[48:43.060 --> 48:44.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's good reading, but that's about all.
[48:45.080 --> 48:45.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[48:46.000 --> 48:46.840]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, listen, thanks for calling.
[48:46.880 --> 48:47.540]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think we had Bernie S.
[48:47.800 --> 48:48.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: calling in.
[48:48.120 --> 48:48.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, thanks a lot.
[48:48.800 --> 48:49.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, let's see if we do.
[48:50.560 --> 48:51.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[48:52.000 --> 48:52.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[48:52.420 --> 48:52.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie S.
[48:52.720 --> 48:55.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: has a collect call from Bernie S.
[48:56.080 --> 48:59.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: at the Bucks County Men's Community Correctional Center.
[49:00.620 --> 49:02.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: To receive this call, hang up.
[49:03.780 --> 49:09.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you accept this call, do not use three-way or call waiting features, or you will be disconnected.
[49:10.420 --> 49:12.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: To accept this call, dial one now.
[49:14.360 --> 49:15.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[49:15.760 --> 49:16.480]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hello, Bernie.
[49:17.140 --> 49:17.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[49:17.980 --> 49:21.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hi, we had, I guess we had some routing problems with our phone, but I think that's been fixed now.
[49:21.280 --> 49:25.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I couldn't get through earlier because I was locked down in my cell.
[49:25.320 --> 49:26.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: They were doing an emergency head count.
[49:27.000 --> 49:30.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: They thought someone may have escaped from this prison here.
[49:30.420 --> 49:31.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: And did they?
[49:31.760 --> 49:32.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[49:32.580 --> 49:33.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: They never tell us.
[49:33.360 --> 49:33.520]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh.
[49:34.480 --> 49:37.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: They don't say one in the bush, one in the box, things like that.
[49:37.620 --> 49:39.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: They give you little hints like that.
[49:39.300 --> 49:39.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:39.860 --> 49:46.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: What's, we updated people as to your, the latest computer slash fax escapade.
[49:47.280 --> 49:48.060]  Oh, man.
[49:48.540 --> 49:50.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Has anything else happened since then?
[49:50.260 --> 49:54.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yesterday morning I was called in to speak with the superintendent of the prison.
[49:55.580 --> 50:02.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And he went over the grievance that I'd filed about how I'd been treated.
[50:02.520 --> 50:09.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: And in my grievance I mentioned that my attorney, who's a former federal prosecutor, had told me.
[50:09.360 --> 50:11.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Bernie, you're going to have to speak up because our phone levels are bad tonight.
[50:11.740 --> 50:12.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can you hear me now?
[50:12.540 --> 50:13.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, we can hear you fine.
[50:13.440 --> 50:14.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just speak up a little bit.
[50:14.420 --> 50:18.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: I had a face-to-face meeting with the superintendent of the prison yesterday morning.
[50:18.200 --> 50:22.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: And he, he told me that my, you there?
[50:23.280 --> 50:25.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, you know, we're getting this, this weird feedback.
[50:25.540 --> 50:27.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Which, if you were on this end, you could probably fix, but...
[50:27.920 --> 50:29.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sounded like a baby crying.
[50:29.560 --> 50:31.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, we've been getting it all night.
[50:31.060 --> 50:32.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, uh, just try to ignore it.
[50:32.920 --> 50:41.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, the superintendent, uh, told me that, uh, um, if my attorney were to take any legal action, it wouldn't, it wouldn't be resolved for about six years.
[50:41.200 --> 50:42.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I told him I didn't believe him.
[50:43.620 --> 50:46.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, um, then he told me to leave his office, so I left.
[50:47.560 --> 50:48.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: He, uh...
[50:48.340 --> 50:50.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: He just told you to leave his office because he said you didn't believe him?
[50:50.880 --> 50:51.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[50:52.040 --> 50:52.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh...
[50:52.860 --> 50:53.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Weird.
[50:53.280 --> 51:04.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, I don't know if you're aware that I've been put on, uh, put on a hard labor duty, uh, last weekend, this week, last week I was out in the sun, uh, pitching hay with a pitchfork, uh, into wheelbarrows.
[51:04.900 --> 51:10.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, yesterday and today I was, uh, scrubbing pots and pans in the kitchen all day long.
[51:11.140 --> 51:13.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's, uh, it's interesting.
[51:13.340 --> 51:20.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not getting paid a dime for it, and it's, uh, it's considered voluntary labor in that if I, uh, if I volunteer...
[51:20.860 --> 51:21.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello?
[51:21.700 --> 51:22.700]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, yes, I'm sorry.
[51:22.760 --> 51:24.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: You really need to fix that.
[51:24.160 --> 51:24.940]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yes, we certainly do.
[51:25.580 --> 51:31.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: If I don't volunteer to do this voluntary hard labor, then, uh, I'll be locked back up in maximum security prison again.
[51:32.160 --> 51:34.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh, it's their definition of voluntary.
[51:34.360 --> 51:37.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do we have any date as to when your parole hearing's going to be?
[51:38.020 --> 51:38.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: When they get on the silence?
[51:38.920 --> 51:38.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I did have a...
[51:38.980 --> 51:43.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: I did finally get a chance to, uh, speak with the state parole representative, uh, last Friday.
[51:44.480 --> 51:46.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And he could not give me any date.
[51:46.840 --> 51:54.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: He just said that they're several months behind, and, uh, I reminded him that I should have been released, uh, almost three months ago.
[51:55.040 --> 51:58.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And he said, well, you know how it is, we're behind.
[51:58.940 --> 52:03.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, he didn't seem to be in a mood to talk, so I certainly wasn't going to argue with the guy.
[52:03.460 --> 52:05.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, now, at this stage, would letters help?
[52:05.720 --> 52:06.380]  [SPEAKER_23]: Phone calls?
[52:06.540 --> 52:08.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't want to say faxes, but, um...
[52:08.220 --> 52:09.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I really don't know.
[52:09.700 --> 52:13.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I, you know, it's...
[52:13.720 --> 52:15.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel very closed off in the world.
[52:15.500 --> 52:17.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know whether letters would help or hurt, honestly.
[52:18.100 --> 52:20.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, letters, to me, can help boost my mood.
[52:20.500 --> 52:30.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I don't know if letters to, uh, the state parole board or to the prison might be, might backfire and just anger and get someone's ire up and cause them to keep me here even longer.
[52:30.440 --> 52:44.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's, uh, I, I seem to be walking on thin ice here as far as, um, uh, exerting my rights and, and, and, and still not pissing off the people who run the, uh, run the prison.
[52:45.120 --> 52:48.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's, uh, it's a tough position to be in.
[52:48.300 --> 52:51.000]  [SPEAKER_23]: Are, are there prisoners there aware of what's going on with you?
[52:51.420 --> 52:52.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Some of them, yeah.
[52:52.860 --> 52:58.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, most of them are not, um, and I don't talk with it, talk with most of them about, about what's going on.
[52:59.100 --> 53:01.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: I try to keep to myself for the most part.
[53:01.280 --> 53:14.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, yeah, a few of them are aware of what's happening and, uh, the, the ones who do know about it are in, in, uh, in agreement that I'm, um, definitely getting, getting singled out here for, for reasons they're not quite sure about.
[53:14.440 --> 53:19.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, but they've all, some of them who've been here for years have told me that this just doesn't happen to other inmates.
[53:20.300 --> 53:27.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I mean, my cell was shaken down three times last week and that doesn't happen to, uh, you know, people, it just never happens here.
[53:27.960 --> 53:29.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh, it happened to me though.
[53:29.840 --> 53:43.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I mean, we, we, we have to, we have to realize that, uh, you probably, although we don't think you're getting enough, uh, attention and there's not enough outrage being expressed over this case, you probably are getting more attention than anybody else there or maybe than anybody else there has ever gotten.
[53:43.640 --> 53:46.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I think the prison, prison officials are quite upset about that.
[53:46.920 --> 53:54.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've been told by more than one, uh, by several, uh, prison officials that, uh, that I had no right to, to speak with the press, uh, at all.
[53:55.200 --> 53:55.660]  Uh-huh.
[53:55.860 --> 54:04.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, you know, I, I beg to differ with them, but, uh, they don't seem to understand that there's, you know, the country goes by something called the Constitution and the First Amendment.
[54:04.860 --> 54:09.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it's still hanging by its threads, but it's still alive, I hope.
[54:09.920 --> 54:10.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, it's interesting.
[54:10.640 --> 54:19.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: We touched upon this, uh, in the closing moments of last week's show, but, and, and you had mentioned it, there's 1.6 million prisoners, I believe one in 132 Americans now in prison.
[54:19.960 --> 54:20.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's right.
[54:20.880 --> 54:23.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, uh, that's a figure only matched in Russia.
[54:23.780 --> 54:28.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: And everywhere else is far behind in, in, in that particular, uh, percentage.
[54:28.200 --> 54:29.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, I think we're ahead of Russia.
[54:29.660 --> 54:31.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: We keep going back and forth.
[54:31.340 --> 54:31.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[54:31.680 --> 54:32.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think we're actually ahead of them.
[54:33.940 --> 54:35.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, yeah, I think we are now.
[54:35.780 --> 54:36.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a dubious contest.
[54:37.120 --> 54:37.800]  [SPEAKER_23]: Certainly true.
[54:38.280 --> 54:42.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, you don't think of it as, as, as prison camps and prison labor, but really, what is the difference?
[54:42.640 --> 54:49.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're not in Siberia, you're in Pennsylvania, but you're still engaged in hard labor and, uh, and being oppressed in, in, in various ways.
[54:49.500 --> 54:52.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I feel like I'm in the Gulag, although it's not really, it's not really cold here.
[54:52.800 --> 54:56.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Aside from that, it's, uh, not too different from the Gulag.
[54:56.360 --> 54:58.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not that I've been there, but I've read Dostoevsky.
[54:58.840 --> 54:59.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[54:59.380 --> 55:01.040]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I mean, this is, this is like Kafka.
[55:01.180 --> 55:01.820]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's like Dostoevsky.
[55:01.920 --> 55:09.640]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's like all kinds of things, and, and you're experiencing it firsthand, and I don't know, it's, uh, I just hope you can, you can find the strength to, uh, to continue to make it through here.
[55:09.760 --> 55:11.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I could do some letters to cheer me up.
[55:11.580 --> 55:13.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, give out the address, because we're just about out of time.
[55:14.080 --> 55:18.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, uh, please, anybody listening, if you're writing a letter, uh, I'd appreciate some kind words.
[55:18.920 --> 55:21.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm, uh, I get pretty depressed here sometimes.
[55:21.480 --> 55:33.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, you can send, uh, all mail to, uh, to me, Ed Cummings, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S, and it's in care of Bucks County Prison.
[55:35.340 --> 55:42.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's at 1730, 1730, Southeastern Road, E-A-S-T-O-N.
[55:43.440 --> 55:45.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Number C-6-B.
[55:45.940 --> 55:48.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, boy, that's my cell number, C-6-B.
[55:48.960 --> 55:57.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's in Doylestown, P-A-D-O-Y-L-E-S-T-O-W-N, P-A-1-8-9-0-1.
[55:57.580 --> 56:01.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, people can send me writing materials, or preferably just, uh, just personal letters.
[56:02.060 --> 56:04.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: They, you know, they tend to cheer me up the most.
[56:04.400 --> 56:07.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Are there more things you can get now that you're in, uh, the minimum security class?
[56:07.700 --> 56:21.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, actually, people can send me care packages now, but, uh, I don't want to, I don't want to risk asking for that, for sounding like I'm soliciting anything, but, uh, and then at risk of somebody listening might send me something inappropriate that could get me in trouble,
[56:21.620 --> 56:21.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: too.
[56:22.080 --> 56:25.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, people could send me post-it stamps, I guess.
[56:25.360 --> 56:28.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: That, that, that's pretty non, uh, non-controversial.
[56:28.240 --> 56:32.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I am allowed to have post-it stamps here, unlike at the other prison where I was being held recently.
[56:32.980 --> 56:39.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, I will, uh, I will try to write back anybody who writes me, and, uh, I appreciate the support I'm getting out there.
[56:39.480 --> 56:46.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's, uh, I've been here a lot longer than anyone expected, and I'm hoping that I get out of here pretty soon, but anybody can guess.
[56:46.540 --> 56:57.020]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, and we also have your email address, BernieS at 2600.com, and, uh, people keep in mind when you send mail to that address that, uh, unless you give your regular address, there's no way Bernie can write you back.
[56:57.020 --> 57:00.440]  [SPEAKER_23]: He cannot just hit an R on a, on a console and reply to you.
[57:01.900 --> 57:06.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: It says he gets it forwarded on a printout, so if you want to write back, make sure you put your address in there.
[57:07.080 --> 57:08.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, Bernie, we're, we're, I'm sorry, we're out of time.
[57:08.580 --> 57:12.900]  [SPEAKER_23]: We've got an update from the Democratic Convention coming, uh, where Tom Barney is, by the way.
[57:12.980 --> 57:13.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know if you know that.
[57:14.120 --> 57:15.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've heard that rumor.
[57:15.160 --> 57:15.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[57:15.540 --> 57:19.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, we, we have had it confirmed, that he is, in fact, uh, doing security detail there.
[57:20.000 --> 57:20.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm.
[57:20.680 --> 57:26.140]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, um, I don't know, we're gonna, we're gonna hear what's going on, uh, from, from other perspectives of that particular convention.
[57:26.300 --> 57:27.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's coming up at nine o'clock.
[57:27.860 --> 57:30.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, uh, I guess we'll hear from you again next week.
[57:30.400 --> 57:31.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll try to call.
[57:31.320 --> 57:35.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope there, I hope there, I hope we're not locked down for another, uh, emergency account, but we'll have to see how it goes.
[57:35.960 --> 57:37.320]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, I'll talk to you before then.
[57:37.560 --> 57:37.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[57:38.160 --> 57:38.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, take care.
[57:38.760 --> 57:38.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks a lot.
[57:39.200 --> 57:39.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[57:39.640 --> 57:39.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bye-bye.
[57:40.400 --> 57:42.680]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, uh, gonna do it for us here this week.
[57:42.980 --> 57:45.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Another, uh, exciting edition of, uh, Off the Hook.
[57:46.460 --> 57:48.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: For Fiber Optic, this is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[57:48.380 --> 57:53.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Have yourselves a safe week, stay awake, and, uh, let us know what you find out.
[57:53.720 --> 57:54.180]  [SPEAKER_23]: Take care.
[57:54.220 --> 57:54.420]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good night.
[58:28.030 --> 58:29.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello, this is H.R.
[58:29.570 --> 58:29.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Garrison.
[58:30.170 --> 58:32.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is Brother Shine.
[58:32.610 --> 58:33.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm Zachary Fink.
[58:33.590 --> 58:34.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, this is Mark Leosa.
[58:35.070 --> 58:35.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm Bernard White.
[58:36.270 --> 58:47.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Kathy Davis for Health Action, and you're tuned to WBAI, commercial-free, listener-sponsored radio, 99.5 FM in New York.
[58:47.350 --> 58:54.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: In this world of ordinary people,
[58:58.370 --> 59:01.650]  [SPEAKER_17]: extraordinary people.
[59:03.410 --> 59:07.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you're tuned to listener-sponsored WBAI-FM in New York City.
[59:07.090 --> 59:08.610]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's coming up on 8.58.
[59:08.830 --> 59:20.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: At 9 p.m., Housing Notebook will be joining you 15 minutes delayed tonight, because at 9 p.m., we will be going to Chicago for, uh, swingin' time at the Democratic Prefab Show.
[59:20.670 --> 59:23.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're gonna have the Pacifica Update from, uh, Chicago this evening.
[59:24.430 --> 59:30.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you are not aware of it, Bill Clinton is running for re-election, uh, much to many of our dismay, but what can you do?
[59:30.670 --> 59:44.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the convention, where he's gonna be nominated, unless somebody jumps in at the last minute, hoping for Eugene McCarthy to show up, or George McGovern, but anyway, uh, uh, Bill Clinton will be getting nominated on Thursday night, and at 9 o'clock, we will take you there for a,
[59:44.090 --> 59:45.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: uh, Pacifica News Update.
[59:45.710 --> 59:48.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Until that time, why don't you feast your ears on this.
[59:54.360 --> 59:54.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good!
[59:54.840 --> 59:57.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's put a stop to the sweatshop.
[59:57.920 --> 59:59.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's the disease we want to cure.
[01:00:01.120 --> 01:00:02.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: Proudly we pick it...
[01:00:02.360 --> 01:00:10.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: The AFL-CIO's Union Summer Organizing Drive will be covered in-depth by a national radio program, originating at WBAI Radio.
[01:00:10.940 --> 01:00:23.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Inspired by the 1964 Freedom Summer movement for civil rights, Union Summer will send 1,000 young workers and college students into communities around the nation to rally support for workplace rights and social justice.
[01:00:23.320 --> 01:00:27.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is the beginning of the first major labor organizing drive in over 50 years.
[01:00:28.420 --> 01:00:34.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: The Union Summer Radio show will be produced by Ken Nash and Mimi Rosenberg, producers of WBAI's Building Bridges.
[01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:38.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: It will include commentaries by Jim Hightower on a regular basis.
[01:00:38.600 --> 01:00:42.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: So join the Union Summer Radio movement, summer Mondays from 2 to 3 p.m.
[01:00:43.200 --> 01:00:45.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: over WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:00:56.530 --> 01:00:59.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: And once again, we're back here at WBAI FM in New York City.
[01:00:59.630 --> 01:01:00.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: My name is Scott Sommer.
[01:01:00.670 --> 01:01:01.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's coming up on 9 p.m.
[01:01:01.910 --> 01:01:02.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: and at 9 p.m.
[01:01:02.730 --> 01:01:16.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: we, uh, should be receiving from Pacifica Radio in Chicago an update from the Democratic National Convention, which is ongoing, began last night, will be running till Thursday evening, and that will be coming up, uh, in just a few seconds.
[01:01:16.970 --> 01:01:20.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: Housing Notebook will be joining you at 9.15.
[01:01:20.950 --> 01:01:24.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: So stay tuned for the Pacifica News update from Chicago.
[01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:58.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's family night at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, featuring speeches by Hillary Rodham Clinton and Al Gore.
[01:01:58.340 --> 01:02:00.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is a Pacifica Radio News update.
[01:02:00.660 --> 01:02:00.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, hi, I'm soren t!
[01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:01.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: So stay tuned for the 10th of January!
[01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:01.720]  Bye.
[01:02:01.720 --> 01:02:01.740]  1