Off The Hook - 1996-09-10

[00:01.320 --> 00:06.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...for all immigrants and the working poor have deteriorated considerably in recent years.
[00:07.280 --> 00:17.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Coordinadora 96, a nationwide movement for immigrant rights and the working poor, is responding to this with a March on Washington on Saturday, October 12, 1996.
[00:18.420 --> 00:24.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Join us on this historic call for economic and social justice and join us in the organizing effort for the march.
[00:24.720 --> 00:32.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you are concerned with the attacks against immigrants and the poor, volunteer to help with the planning of the October 12th march.
[00:32.680 --> 00:40.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Call Coordinadora 96 at 212-505-0001 and make a difference.
[00:41.360 --> 00:46.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's 212-505-0001.
[00:46.520 --> 00:49.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: And see you in Washington on October 12th.
[00:49.820 --> 00:56.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: This announcement is a public service of WBAI on behalf of Coordinadora 96, a non-profit organization.
[00:58.560 --> 01:01.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:01.500 --> 01:02.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's time for Off the Hook.
[01:59.490 --> 02:00.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a good evening to everybody.
[02:00.970 --> 02:02.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:02.550 --> 02:04.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's Emmanuel Goldstein with you on this Tuesday night.
[02:04.930 --> 02:11.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: One week after we broke the news about Bernie S being attacked in prison and put in the hospital.
[02:12.370 --> 02:15.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not a whole lot has changed in the past week.
[02:15.470 --> 02:24.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, actually, that's not entirely true because we've gotten an incredible, incredible outpouring of mail, of support, of all kinds of things.
[02:24.170 --> 02:27.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Offers to take part in all kinds of ways.
[02:27.610 --> 02:28.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to be talking about that tonight.
[02:28.770 --> 02:32.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to be progressing along those lines a little bit.
[02:32.050 --> 02:33.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll also be hearing from Bernie S.
[02:33.570 --> 02:35.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: I understand there is some news of some sort.
[02:35.590 --> 02:36.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: We don't know what it is yet.
[02:37.010 --> 02:41.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're going to try to take a lot of phone calls tonight since I know we weren't able to take any last week.
[02:42.770 --> 02:49.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: We got, I'd say, a couple of hundred, several hundred messages in our protest mailbox.
[02:50.090 --> 02:51.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, I printed out a few of them.
[02:52.270 --> 02:53.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the sound it makes when you drop it on the ground.
[02:54.110 --> 02:54.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's like amazing.
[02:54.650 --> 02:58.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of people really want to do something.
[02:58.150 --> 03:03.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to read a few of these and also give out the address at the same time for people that want to take part.
[03:04.250 --> 03:08.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: The address, just to get the latest update, is protestat2600.com.
[03:08.750 --> 03:10.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, you have to be on the Internet to do that.
[03:10.930 --> 03:12.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're not on the Internet, don't worry.
[03:12.570 --> 03:15.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: We will give you other information on how you can take part.
[03:15.070 --> 03:28.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: For those of you who are a bit more technically adept and want to just try and subscribe to what has turned into a mailing list, it's a little bit more complicated, just a little bit, but it's certainly doable.
[03:28.510 --> 03:37.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: What you do is you mail to our list processor, which is known as listproc, L-I-S-T-P-R-O-C, at 2600.com.
[03:37.390 --> 04:00.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: And in that message, what you do is, on the first line, you say, subscribe, protest-l, for protest list, and then follow that with your username, and then send that message, and within a few hours you will be subscribed and you will receive messages and you can post messages and take part in the planning of the actions that we are engaged in right now.
[04:00.810 --> 04:07.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Those actions include demonstrations, they include phone campaigns, getting the media involved, and all kinds of other things like that.
[04:08.150 --> 04:09.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've done a lot in the last week.
[04:09.790 --> 04:19.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've set up also a voice mailbox for people to get updates, and that is at 516-473-2626.
[04:20.630 --> 04:27.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, you know, I guess we can call that on the air and see just what that sounds like, because... can we get a dial tone?
[04:27.650 --> 04:27.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[04:34.060 --> 04:36.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't actually heard this myself in the past few days.
[04:36.940 --> 04:38.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not sure if there's any new updates there.
[04:40.660 --> 04:41.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: I do know Bernie S.
[04:42.300 --> 04:44.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: himself will be recording something there, or attempting to.
[04:46.300 --> 04:49.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, this is what you get when you call that phone number, so you can take part in this.
[04:50.820 --> 04:53.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: You've reached the 2600 voicemail system.
[04:53.380 --> 04:54.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: To get involved in the Bernie S.
[04:54.980 --> 04:56.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: protest, press 7 now.
[04:57.620 --> 05:00.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to connect to the voice BBS, press 1.
[05:00.460 --> 05:01.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: To leave voicemail...
[05:01.320 --> 05:02.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, a touch-to-recognition is not what it should be.
[05:03.400 --> 05:04.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: There we go.
[05:05.860 --> 05:06.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is the Bernie S.
[05:07.080 --> 05:07.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: update mailbox.
[05:07.960 --> 05:10.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hit star at any time to skip this message and leave one of your own.
[05:11.580 --> 05:18.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Protest actions are being planned in response to the most recent atrocities concerning Ed Cummings, known in the hacker world as Bernie S.
[05:18.420 --> 05:28.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: He's been imprisoned since March of 95 for mere possession of a red box, which could have been used to make free phone calls, although there was no evidence that he had done so, or committed any fraud whatsoever.
[05:29.940 --> 05:41.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: The most recent developments in Ed's case are that he was transferred on Friday from a minimum security facility in Bucks County to a maximum security facility in Lehigh County.
[05:41.860 --> 05:48.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Almost as soon as he arrived there, he was viciously attacked by another inmate, losing his front teeth, having his jaw shattered, and his arms smashed.
[05:49.220 --> 05:54.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: He required seven hours of surgery and several stitches to repair the damage.
[05:54.800 --> 05:57.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: What we're doing is organizing a protest.
[05:57.000 --> 06:06.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: However, the latest development, as of September 4th, Ed has been moved to Northampton County Prison, a facility built in the late 1800s.
[06:06.320 --> 06:08.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: The conditions there are atrocious.
[06:08.520 --> 06:22.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you'd like to reach Ed, mail him at Northampton County Correctional Facility, attention, Ed Cummings, comma, M3, that's M as in medical, 666 Walnut Street, Easton, Pennsylvania, 1 Pennsylvania, 18042.
[06:22.560 --> 06:25.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: He can only receive letters and or money orders.
[06:25.380 --> 06:28.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: He cannot receive reading materials unless they're directly from the publisher.
[06:29.040 --> 06:34.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please leave your name and number if you'd like to be involved in the protest, or if you need to, a different way to reach you.
[06:35.100 --> 06:38.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Get everyone you know involved in this case, if you possibly can.
[06:38.740 --> 06:42.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: We know that Ed thanks you, and we certainly thank you for your involvement.
[06:43.540 --> 06:44.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[06:44.020 --> 06:45.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are some updates since then.
[06:45.860 --> 06:50.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Obviously, as that recording said, he has been moved to yet another prison.
[06:50.160 --> 06:55.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, this was the prison that he was initially sent to back in January.
[06:55.340 --> 06:56.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's an atrocious place.
[06:56.940 --> 06:57.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've been there.
[06:57.800 --> 06:58.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've seen him there.
[06:59.120 --> 07:02.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's also right next to the courtroom where he was sentenced.
[07:02.120 --> 07:10.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that is the planned point for one of several demonstrations which will be taking place in the next week or so.
[07:11.160 --> 07:15.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: We had hoped to have a specific date available to announce tonight.
[07:16.540 --> 07:23.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: However, we don't have enough information yet so that we can actually say when exactly we're going to go down there.
[07:23.680 --> 07:31.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you are interested, and I certainly hope you are, because this is something that affects not only hackers but anyone with a sense of individuality.
[07:32.460 --> 07:40.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are several ways you can get a hold of us, several ways that you can be put on our list so that we can contact you to let you know when this is happening.
[07:40.580 --> 07:47.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: What we're going to do is just take a bus down there one morning, and it's going to be during the week, and we're just going to see what happens.
[07:48.920 --> 07:58.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: We are open to suggestion as to how to approach this, other ways of dealing with demonstrations, where else we should be protesting, who else we should be talking to, things like that.
[07:59.260 --> 08:01.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, the ways of getting a hold of us.
[08:01.660 --> 08:16.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mail to protest at 2600.com if you're on the Internet, and if you want to leave voicemail, 516-473-2626, or if you don't have a Touch-Tone phone, 516-751-2600, and you'll get the latest information that way.
[08:17.280 --> 08:23.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll also take some phone calls here if you have any suggestions, ideas, plans, feedback, what have you.
[08:23.840 --> 08:36.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: The number here is 212-279-3400, and I think we're going to try and take some phone calls at the beginning of the show this time so that we can fit some people in before Bernie calls, which I think will be in a little while.
[08:37.640 --> 08:46.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Before we get to that, I just want to read a couple of the many, many letters that we have gotten, and this is staggering.
[08:46.240 --> 08:50.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're kind of overwhelmed by the amount of response that we've been getting.
[08:50.820 --> 08:55.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've never seen people this upset, this angry, this focused.
[08:56.880 --> 08:57.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's one.
[08:57.480 --> 08:58.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: How could something like this happen?
[08:58.680 --> 08:59.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie didn't murder anyone.
[09:00.620 --> 09:01.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: He just committed fraud.
[09:02.060 --> 09:03.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: That is all simple fraud.
[09:03.220 --> 09:04.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, actually, that's not entirely true.
[09:04.640 --> 09:08.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was never accused of committing fraud, and I happen to know he didn't commit fraud.
[09:08.480 --> 09:11.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was accused of having a piece of hardware.
[09:11.360 --> 09:15.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, let's get right to the point here.
[09:15.060 --> 09:20.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: That piece of hardware is something simple, something that makes a very simple sound.
[09:20.400 --> 09:24.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what we're going to do now is play that sound for you so we know exactly what it is we're talking about.
[09:25.180 --> 09:26.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's hear that sound.
[09:27.920 --> 09:29.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that is the sound we're talking about.
[09:29.680 --> 09:31.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: That is what is known as a quarter tone.
[09:31.880 --> 09:32.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Five beeps.
[09:32.620 --> 09:33.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's hear it again.
[09:33.140 --> 09:33.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Five beeps.
[09:34.580 --> 09:38.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, when you drop a quarter into a payphone, it generates those five beeps.
[09:38.700 --> 09:41.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you drop a dime into a payphone, it sounds like this.
[09:42.340 --> 09:42.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two beeps.
[09:42.960 --> 09:46.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you drop a nickel into the phone, it sounds like this.
[09:46.640 --> 09:47.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Get it?
[09:47.200 --> 09:48.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's really simple, you know?
[09:48.380 --> 09:50.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I don't know what the big deal is.
[09:50.340 --> 09:59.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, the phones are, in some places, are so primitive that all you have to do is play those tones into the phone, and it'll say, hey, you gave me a quarter.
[09:59.880 --> 10:00.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you very much.
[10:00.660 --> 10:00.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
[10:03.340 --> 10:09.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Theoretically, you could take a tape recording of this show, hold it up to the payphone, and make a free phone call that way.
[10:09.520 --> 10:13.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, basically, we have become the exact same thing as the red box that Bernie S.
[10:13.960 --> 10:15.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: is accused of possessing.
[10:15.320 --> 10:19.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: There is nothing more that they are accusing him of.
[10:19.120 --> 10:24.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, yeah, you have the cellular cloning thing as well, but that's basically the same idea.
[10:24.760 --> 10:31.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Software that allows you to make an extension of a cellular phone, and in other court cases, that has been proven to be completely legal to possess.
[10:32.000 --> 10:38.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: They have been focusing mainly on the possession of this particular bit of hardware, which enables you to make free phone calls.
[10:38.800 --> 10:41.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, he never used it to make free phone calls.
[10:41.260 --> 10:42.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: He never committed fraud himself.
[10:43.080 --> 10:46.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, in fact, that's in a lot of the court transcripts and documents.
[10:47.100 --> 10:51.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was no financial damage, no fraud, nothing like that, just possession.
[10:51.680 --> 10:54.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they're able to do this because of an obscure law that was passed.
[10:55.920 --> 10:57.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's another piece of feedback.
[10:58.140 --> 11:03.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't really know what this Ed Cummings guy or what he even did to get put in jail, but what he did couldn't be all that bad.
[11:03.960 --> 11:06.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: I am assuming he used a computer or phone for illegal activities.
[11:06.720 --> 11:11.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, again, that's an assumption, which I know a lot of people want to...
[11:12.680 --> 11:18.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: They want a lot of people to make that assumption, because why would someone who didn't do that be in prison in the first place?
[11:20.720 --> 11:22.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm willing to help out any way I can.
[11:22.340 --> 11:27.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm in New Jersey now, but I live in Tampa, Florida, and they're going to spread the information down there.
[11:27.800 --> 11:31.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: People from Europe have been writing to us, people from Asia.
[11:33.460 --> 11:36.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Whatever is needed, I'm ready to help any way I can.
[11:36.060 --> 11:36.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: This includes money.
[11:37.220 --> 11:38.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: We need to get Bernie a better attorney.
[11:38.920 --> 11:40.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just don't understand why he's in prison.
[11:40.480 --> 11:41.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's send a message to Clinton.
[11:41.500 --> 11:46.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: If he doesn't get Bernie a pardon, I'll campaign to send our votes against him.
[11:47.220 --> 11:48.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please add me to the mailing list.
[11:48.540 --> 11:49.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is there a way to contact Ed's lawyer?
[11:49.860 --> 11:50.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm also a lawyer.
[11:50.600 --> 11:51.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Would like to lend my support.
[11:52.460 --> 12:03.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: A number of lawyers, a number of veterans, a number of people involved in law enforcement have taken a very strong interest in this and are willing to help out in many ways.
[12:04.840 --> 12:05.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's another one.
[12:05.560 --> 12:06.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi, I've been keeping track of the Bernie S.
[12:06.960 --> 12:08.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: case, listening to Off the Hook.
[12:08.040 --> 12:09.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I understand it is now the time for action.
[12:10.800 --> 12:13.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm willing to attend a protest.
[12:13.220 --> 12:16.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I also think Amnesty International should be contacted regarding this.
[12:17.080 --> 12:20.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's also a number of people that think the ACLU should be contacted.
[12:20.200 --> 12:21.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, we did contact the ACLU.
[12:21.860 --> 12:23.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: We sent them email.
[12:24.080 --> 12:24.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: We faxed them.
[12:24.880 --> 12:26.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: The press releases have not heard back from them yet.
[12:26.740 --> 12:32.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, we have not heard back from much media at all or much in the way of civil rights groups.
[12:32.180 --> 12:33.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's kind of disappointing.
[12:33.140 --> 12:34.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have heard a lot from individuals.
[12:35.040 --> 12:35.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: A ton of feedback.
[12:36.760 --> 12:39.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Several hundred messages, including voicemail and Internet.
[12:40.540 --> 12:43.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But very little in the way of existing organizations.
[12:44.560 --> 12:52.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, if you want to help, I think one of the things that you need to do is contact these groups because we can't do it all ourselves from here.
[12:52.740 --> 12:53.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: We need whatever help we can get.
[12:54.120 --> 13:01.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, if there are people out there who can call groups like Amnesty International, groups like the ACLU, groups like the EFF, groups like whatever.
[13:02.000 --> 13:07.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, the media, TV stations, magazines, newspapers, whatever you can do will help.
[13:08.000 --> 13:08.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just get the word out.
[13:08.840 --> 13:18.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Lots of times, these organizations are so big and complex and bureaucratic that, you know, if you give them something, it winds up in the mailroom and doesn't go to the right place.
[13:19.460 --> 13:23.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, we need to have people help out and get the word out in whatever way possible.
[13:23.060 --> 13:24.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: On the net, this is everywhere.
[13:24.640 --> 13:25.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is on the web.
[13:25.940 --> 13:27.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's being splashed every place.
[13:28.660 --> 13:29.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's a good thing.
[13:29.880 --> 13:30.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a really good thing.
[13:30.740 --> 13:33.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: However, a lot of people do not have access to the Internet.
[13:33.720 --> 13:35.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we need to get them involved as well.
[13:35.720 --> 13:40.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of WBAI listeners, I know, are interested in taking part in protests and demonstrations.
[13:40.480 --> 13:43.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of people who don't have access to the Internet.
[13:43.780 --> 13:51.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, for that reason, we're going to be keeping people updated over the airwaves of WBAI, even when we're not here, like 24 hours a day, around the clock.
[13:52.260 --> 13:54.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: And is that a Bernie S t-shirt I see?
[13:54.280 --> 13:57.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow, someone actually made a Bernie S t-shirt.
[13:57.700 --> 14:01.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, Pam, you're here now, and I understand there's some kind of news of some sort.
[14:01.640 --> 14:05.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: First of all, we haven't really updated people except for the fact that he was transferred last week.
[14:05.660 --> 14:13.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was talk of him being released by the judge and the DA, and then they later backed down from that, which I think is pretty rotten.
[14:14.800 --> 14:16.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Want to update us on what's going on?
[14:17.340 --> 14:20.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they completely backed down from that.
[14:21.340 --> 14:32.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the best they're saying they could possibly do, instead of revisiting his sentence, is perhaps getting him work release, which would mean he'd get to leave the jail during the day, do some sort of job.
[14:32.860 --> 14:35.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, one question, his jaw is wide shut.
[14:35.720 --> 14:39.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: What kind of work can he be expected to do when he's supposed to be in a hospital?
[14:39.360 --> 14:41.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: It would be mostly a courtesy.
[14:41.460 --> 14:53.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, his lawyer has said he might be able to get him some spot with a lawyer in Easton, which is local to the jail, where he could go and work on his own case, perhaps for little or no money.
[14:53.440 --> 14:54.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: But he'd still have to go back to jail at night.
[14:54.800 --> 14:58.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: He'd have to stay in jail at night, and he'd still be getting this inferior medical care that he's been getting.
[14:58.840 --> 15:01.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a really big update.
[15:01.060 --> 15:03.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just spoke to Ed about 15 minutes ago.
[15:03.540 --> 15:10.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he did, through the help of his uncle, get out to visit his facial surgeon today.
[15:11.760 --> 15:13.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: The visit was at 1.30.
[15:13.500 --> 15:18.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: His progress is okay, although from his lip down to his neck is totally numb.
[15:18.660 --> 15:20.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: There may be some nerve damage, and it could be permanent.
[15:20.940 --> 15:22.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: They won't know that for several months.
[15:23.440 --> 15:32.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the interesting development was that his uncle wished to witness the doctor's visit and, unfortunately, showed up a little late as the visit was ending and brought a camera.
[15:33.300 --> 15:42.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the sheriff and the deputy that were there at the visit at first told Ed's uncle to leave the doctor's office.
[15:42.620 --> 15:46.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And his uncle said, No, I don't think I have to do that unless the doctor wants me to.
[15:46.860 --> 15:47.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a public place.
[15:48.260 --> 15:51.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he got to stay for the last five minutes of the visit.
[15:51.020 --> 15:58.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, he tried to take pictures of them while they were handcuffing and shackling Ed back up for the trip back to the jail.
[15:58.620 --> 16:04.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this 350-pound guard jumped Ed's uncle, who's a 65-year-old retired political official.
[16:05.260 --> 16:06.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I've met him.
[16:06.240 --> 16:08.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he's a sweet man.
[16:08.020 --> 16:09.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's not very large.
[16:09.420 --> 16:22.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they were screaming and shouting that he couldn't take pictures and he was a security threat and that they weren't going to let Ed have any type of release visits for medical reasons anymore because it was a complete security threat.
[16:22.860 --> 16:34.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And not to mention, he did get his camera back, but you don't need to be resorting to physical violence with a senior citizen or anyone, actually, over some photographs.
[16:34.460 --> 16:39.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I think they're just, once again, showing their true colors as far as the kind of people they are.
[16:40.400 --> 16:44.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, again, as we stressed last week, we just cannot take this...
[16:44.440 --> 16:46.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: We cannot stand here and just allow this kind of thing to happen.
[16:47.640 --> 16:49.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: These people know no bounds.
[16:49.300 --> 16:49.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[16:49.780 --> 16:51.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: They'll strike out at anybody.
[16:51.440 --> 16:55.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I know, you know, a lot of people are afraid of various bits of retribution.
[16:56.080 --> 16:59.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've been warned that if we go down there, we'll be facing all kinds of problems ourselves.
[16:59.260 --> 17:04.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I don't think that's a reason to just not do anything.
[17:04.580 --> 17:06.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, yeah, there's always a risk of something.
[17:06.280 --> 17:11.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's always, you know, possible retributions and all kinds of nasty business you could get involved in.
[17:11.860 --> 17:18.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I think the cost of being silent is far greater than speaking up and getting somebody pissed off at you.
[17:19.400 --> 17:25.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I did get a little bit further update on what we can do, what we have to do in order to hold a demonstration.
[17:25.000 --> 17:26.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you saw that earlier today.
[17:26.840 --> 17:27.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I did not.
[17:27.860 --> 17:29.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no permits required.
[17:29.800 --> 17:36.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: We just have to not block foot or vehicular traffic, not create a disturbance with any PA system or megaphones.
[17:36.560 --> 17:38.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can yell all we want.
[17:38.200 --> 17:38.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can make signs.
[17:39.380 --> 17:47.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they asked for one day's advance notice so that they could have additional security people on at the jail, which I thought was very reasonable.
[17:47.560 --> 17:49.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, that covers one place.
[17:49.720 --> 17:49.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[17:50.020 --> 17:53.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are several places that demonstrations are being planned.
[17:53.660 --> 17:56.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have home addresses of all these people.
[17:56.200 --> 17:57.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I think that's kind of interesting.
[17:57.500 --> 18:02.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're working on the legal ways of dealing with that.
[18:02.480 --> 18:04.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we are not stepping beyond the law here.
[18:04.900 --> 18:07.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: We are exercising our rights as citizens.
[18:08.280 --> 18:13.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: And for those of you who cannot make it down to Pennsylvania, there's a Secret Service office right here in New York.
[18:13.680 --> 18:15.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we are planning something for that as well.
[18:16.380 --> 18:19.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we have all kinds of things on the burner.
[18:20.380 --> 18:23.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the way to get in touch with us, as we said before, please do.
[18:23.860 --> 18:24.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please do.
[18:24.240 --> 18:24.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's very important.
[18:25.800 --> 18:26.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two ways.
[18:27.180 --> 18:27.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Voicemail.
[18:27.720 --> 18:28.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just a regular phone call.
[18:28.940 --> 18:30.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: 516-473-2626.
[18:30.920 --> 18:32.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Requires the use of a Touch-Tone phone.
[18:32.620 --> 18:34.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: And basically just record a message there.
[18:34.760 --> 18:35.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hear the latest update.
[18:36.740 --> 18:40.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or if you don't have a Touch-Tone phone, call 516-751-2600.
[18:40.280 --> 18:42.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Those two numbers you can call around the clock.
[18:43.460 --> 18:47.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll try to have updates on this radio station throughout the week.
[18:48.160 --> 18:51.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: However, there's no guarantee as to when exactly those will be happening.
[18:51.320 --> 18:54.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you just have to play that by ear, literally.
[18:55.280 --> 18:58.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the voicemail, though, you can call any time around the clock.
[18:58.220 --> 18:58.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's multiple lines.
[18:59.100 --> 19:02.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you have Internet access, email to protest at 2600.com.
[19:03.200 --> 19:06.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you'll be added to the list of people that want to take part.
[19:06.020 --> 19:07.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we'll email you as soon as we know something.
[19:07.660 --> 19:09.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: I understand Bernie S.
[19:09.040 --> 19:11.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: himself will be recording the greeting on the voicemail system.
[19:11.640 --> 19:12.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that going to be happening soon?
[19:13.160 --> 19:17.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he's been struggling with getting his medical care for the past day or two.
[19:17.600 --> 19:19.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: But we'd like to record that tomorrow morning.
[19:19.340 --> 19:20.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: So everyone check in.
[19:20.840 --> 19:22.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: You'll have a live message.
[19:22.520 --> 19:23.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd just like to read something.
[19:23.760 --> 19:26.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: This was something that is about to be posted on the web.
[19:26.780 --> 19:31.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And also, I should point out, the website is probably the most important way of getting news out.
[19:31.040 --> 19:36.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because that's how everybody can see exactly as much information as we can possibly post.
[19:36.540 --> 19:38.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's www.2600.com.
[19:39.160 --> 19:44.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: And for all the people that have been asking, all the organizations that have been asking, feel free to link to us.
[19:44.900 --> 19:46.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: No problem at all with that.
[19:46.280 --> 19:47.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: No problem with copyright restrictions or anything.
[19:48.120 --> 19:49.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: We want as many people to see this as possible.
[19:49.920 --> 19:51.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: So please, yes, by all means, link.
[19:52.660 --> 19:53.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Copy.
[19:53.400 --> 19:54.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Send it to other people.
[19:54.740 --> 19:56.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do whatever you have to do to get the word out.
[19:56.720 --> 19:57.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Contact media people.
[19:58.720 --> 19:59.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's extremely important.
[19:59.900 --> 20:03.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: This should have been on the front page of many newspapers by now.
[20:03.540 --> 20:06.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And also, incidentally, a positive note.
[20:06.300 --> 20:07.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: This took place actually a couple of weeks ago.
[20:07.740 --> 20:08.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we should have mentioned it then.
[20:08.880 --> 20:10.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: There is a magazine called Internet Underground.
[20:10.880 --> 20:12.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: We interviewed Rob Bernstein a few weeks ago.
[20:13.500 --> 20:17.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: And he has written a story which I think is probably the best story ever written on Bernie S.
[20:17.320 --> 20:19.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it appears in the current issue of Internet Underground.
[20:19.860 --> 20:28.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can find that in any place that sells zines like Tower Books, Hudson News, any borders, Barnes & Noble, places like that.
[20:28.440 --> 20:30.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: But ask for it if you don't see it.
[20:30.660 --> 20:34.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's on the front page, the amazing story of Bernie S.
[20:34.780 --> 20:38.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's something that I think people should definitely be interested in.
[20:39.920 --> 20:42.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, now this is something that came from the website.
[20:43.600 --> 20:47.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is kind of a dialogue that took place, I believe, yesterday, the 9th?
[20:47.660 --> 20:47.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[20:48.020 --> 20:50.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: At about 10 after 11, this guy named Dr. Wolf.
[20:51.160 --> 20:52.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, Dr. Wolf is who?
[20:52.880 --> 20:54.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, there's a bit of an error there.
[20:54.600 --> 20:56.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: It has a little bit of a mental block on the doctor's name.
[20:56.840 --> 20:58.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's actually Dr. Wood, Ed Wood.
[20:58.380 --> 20:58.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, Dr. Wood, okay.
[20:59.520 --> 21:00.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Believe it or not.
[21:00.020 --> 21:00.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're joking.
[21:00.680 --> 21:01.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed Wood, okay.
[21:01.520 --> 21:02.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really good B movies.
[21:02.460 --> 21:05.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's been reincarnated as a B doctor.
[21:05.380 --> 21:06.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great Z healthcare, yeah.
[21:06.840 --> 21:07.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[21:07.480 --> 21:08.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: But everything else here is accurate.
[21:08.960 --> 21:09.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's correct.
[21:09.500 --> 21:09.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[21:10.460 --> 21:15.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is a dialogue that took place between the two of them in, I guess, Dr. Wood's office.
[21:17.320 --> 21:20.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed asked him, have you consulted with either of my two surgeons yet?
[21:20.640 --> 21:21.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dr. Wolf, no.
[21:22.380 --> 21:27.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, both of the surgeons, keep in mind, told Ed the day after the operation that they wanted to see him in their offices within a week.
[21:28.180 --> 21:29.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dr. Wolf said, we're in a different jurisdiction.
[21:29.980 --> 21:31.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: We can't let you visit these surgeons.
[21:32.100 --> 21:39.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Instead, they want him to see a prison dentist and prison orthopedist instead of the facial and orthopedic surgeons who operated on him.
[21:40.180 --> 21:41.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dr. Wood said, open your mouth wide.
[21:42.020 --> 21:43.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: I need to look down your throat.
[21:43.360 --> 21:44.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Takes out a tongue depressor.
[21:44.920 --> 21:46.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed says, you're not going to be able to do that.
[21:47.380 --> 21:50.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dr. Wood, rather, says, are you refusing to let me look at your throat?
[21:50.800 --> 21:52.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed says, no, my jaw is wired shut.
[21:52.520 --> 21:53.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed, I guess you didn't notice.
[21:53.920 --> 21:55.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dr. Wood, oh.
[21:56.020 --> 22:00.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed then said, have you further considered the amount of pain I'm in or the pain medication I was prescribed?
[22:00.880 --> 22:02.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dr. Wolf, no.
[22:02.600 --> 22:04.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed, is that a medical decision or a security?
[22:05.400 --> 22:07.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dr. Wood, you seem to understand simple things.
[22:07.960 --> 22:08.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is simple.
[22:08.620 --> 22:09.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's my decision.
[22:10.120 --> 22:11.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that medical or security?
[22:12.080 --> 22:12.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Medical.
[22:22.520 --> 22:23.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's staying right now.
[22:23.420 --> 22:25.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the kind of treatment he's getting.
[22:27.240 --> 22:29.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hopefully, he'll be able to call in in a matter of moments.
[22:29.580 --> 22:31.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was expecting to hear from him by now.
[22:31.480 --> 22:34.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: He said he had special dispensation to make this phone call at 815.
[22:34.320 --> 22:34.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[22:35.240 --> 22:36.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: This might be him now.
[22:36.120 --> 22:36.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see if it is.
[22:37.320 --> 22:37.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[22:38.960 --> 22:39.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[22:40.160 --> 22:40.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[22:41.120 --> 22:44.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have a Tell Link collect call from a county jail.
[22:44.960 --> 22:46.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: The call is from...
[22:46.880 --> 22:47.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bernie S.
[22:51.130 --> 22:56.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: To accept this collect call with a push-button phone, please press 2 now.
[22:57.530 --> 22:59.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for using Tell Link.
[23:00.610 --> 23:01.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, Bernie, can you hear me?
[23:02.150 --> 23:02.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can hear you.
[23:03.010 --> 23:03.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can you hear me?
[23:03.770 --> 23:05.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, we can hear you just fine.
[23:05.590 --> 23:08.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Pam has just updated us on the events of today.
[23:09.270 --> 23:10.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's been a crazy day.
[23:10.430 --> 23:11.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, is your uncle okay?
[23:12.130 --> 23:12.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: He is.
[23:12.590 --> 23:16.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: I finally got a hold of, well, his wife, my aunt, just a few minutes ago.
[23:16.930 --> 23:17.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he is all right.
[23:17.870 --> 23:22.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was pretty shaken by the experience, but physically okay.
[23:24.070 --> 23:26.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's unbelievable that they'll stop at literally nothing, will they?
[23:26.970 --> 23:29.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the sheriff kept saying that...
[23:29.070 --> 23:38.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you explained what had happened on the air, but the sheriff kept telling me all the way back that it was a security risk and that they could have arrested him for breaking the law.
[23:38.110 --> 23:39.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like, well, what law did he break?
[23:39.290 --> 23:42.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: They said, well, interfering with the transport of a prisoner.
[23:42.790 --> 23:43.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, he didn't interfere.
[23:43.790 --> 23:44.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: He didn't get in the way at all.
[23:45.010 --> 23:45.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was just taking pictures.
[23:46.190 --> 23:48.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they don't want people to see the condition you're in, obviously.
[23:49.110 --> 23:49.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously.
[23:49.630 --> 23:53.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm sure they don't want people to know the condition you're in, but there's little way they can do about that.
[23:53.510 --> 23:55.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: They had, like, a 300-pound galoot.
[23:55.270 --> 23:57.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, my uncle's a thin man.
[23:58.130 --> 24:00.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: He had a 300-pound galoot wearing a badge.
[24:00.210 --> 24:03.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Jump him, take the camera away, and shake him up.
[24:03.130 --> 24:04.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was just... it was ugly.
[24:04.830 --> 24:05.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[24:05.610 --> 24:06.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway.
[24:06.730 --> 24:10.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, give him my support and anything that he needs from us, please.
[24:11.030 --> 24:11.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're willing to do.
[24:12.090 --> 24:25.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: If it weren't for him and some other people out there who've been supporting me, I probably would not have been able to go to see my surgeon today because the prison health care system here would flat out refuse to let me see my surgeon, even though my surgeon insisted he needed to see me within a week.
[24:27.390 --> 24:39.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: And fortunately, I think enough angry phone calls and communications made the prison health corporation here realize that they better let me see the surgeon or else.
[24:39.670 --> 24:41.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I understand a lot of people have been making phone calls.
[24:41.950 --> 24:47.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: All the phone numbers are up on our website, and I think that has helped and put the pressure on people.
[24:48.590 --> 24:54.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: are exerting their rights, and I think the goons at that prison are starting to realize that they're going to be held accountable for everything they do to you.
[24:55.010 --> 24:58.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they're usually not used to being held accountable for anything, and this is a real change.
[24:58.710 --> 24:59.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right, right.
[24:59.750 --> 25:09.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do the people listening know that the morning after I was on the air last Tuesday that I was taken out of Lehigh County Prison and transferred to Northampton County Prison?
[25:09.710 --> 25:11.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, we knew you were transferred, but tell us the details about that.
[25:11.990 --> 25:28.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the morning after I was on the air, it was Wednesday morning, I was taken out of that infectious disease ward at Lehigh County Prison near Allentown, Pennsylvania, and transported by Northampton County Sheriff's deputies in a sheriff's van to Northampton County Prison.
[25:28.110 --> 25:30.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: The trip took about half an hour, and there was some kind of a problem with the van.
[25:31.150 --> 25:40.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was like the whole back of the van was full of carbon monoxide smoke, and I was really sick, and I was worried I was going to throw up because my teeth are wired shut, and if I throw up, I could drown.
[25:41.330 --> 25:43.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: But in any case, I just got nauseous.
[25:43.530 --> 25:44.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't throw up.
[25:44.150 --> 25:58.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I got to the prison around noon or so and went over with the nurses what treatment I've been getting, what medications I've been receiving, who my surgeons were, and I was all concerned because I weren't taking any notes.
[25:58.250 --> 26:07.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: But in any case, I got locked in this 6x8 cell in a back room behind the infirmary that's for inmates with infectious diseases.
[26:08.330 --> 26:15.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: The door has a sign on it with, like, stern warnings to the guards and nurses not to enter without a surgical mask or for gloves.
[26:16.810 --> 26:19.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so I was back here where there's five cells.
[26:19.490 --> 26:26.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Two were all refilled at the time, one with a prisoner with AIDS and another with tuberculosis, and they put me in the middle of the two of them.
[26:27.410 --> 26:31.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, of course, I was refused a surgical mask or for gloves when I asked for one.
[26:33.250 --> 26:43.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: And just to understand it, I mean, I'm not a doctor, but I don't, you know, I'm only a hacker, but I don't believe that fractured jaws and fractured arms are contagious, as far as I know.
[26:43.930 --> 26:48.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I think in prisons, who knows, you know, the way that they treat people.
[26:48.970 --> 26:50.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think they do that to a lot of people.
[26:51.970 --> 27:02.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I explained to the nurses that I'd just undergone surgery for seven hours a couple of days before, and for some reason I was not getting my medication when I came here.
[27:02.350 --> 27:11.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was getting the medication, antibiotics every four hours, and codeine for the pain, which is excruciating from all the bone fractures at Lehigh County Prison.
[27:11.510 --> 27:16.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: But as soon as I got here, it was 32 hours before they gave me any antibiotics at all.
[27:16.670 --> 27:17.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was going out of my mind.
[27:18.570 --> 27:23.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was supposed to be getting it every four hours, and for our listeners who know how antibiotics work, you just don't do that.
[27:24.010 --> 27:27.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't just stop administering antibiotics for a few days and then pick up again.
[27:28.550 --> 27:32.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I was, like, at risk for internal infection with all these bone fractures.
[27:32.230 --> 27:42.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: So after 32 hours, they finally started giving me the antibiotics, but they still continued to refuse to give me any pain medication other than just regular Tylenol for, like, multiple facial fractures and arm fractures.
[27:43.450 --> 27:46.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I was in so much pain this past week.
[27:47.030 --> 27:49.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've never experienced pain like that before.
[27:49.630 --> 27:50.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was the worst.
[27:50.670 --> 27:52.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: I couldn't possibly sleep.
[27:52.350 --> 27:54.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was just hell.
[27:54.870 --> 27:56.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not as bad now, fortunately.
[27:56.390 --> 27:59.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: But this past week has been a hell of a week.
[28:01.190 --> 28:02.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can't imagine.
[28:02.870 --> 28:18.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Pam, I'd like to ask you something, because we touched on it before, where the judge and the district attorney had at one point said that they were considering, especially after the events of last week, that they were considering immediately having Bernie released.
[28:18.930 --> 28:20.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: What happened after that?
[28:21.550 --> 28:37.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, Ed could probably answer better, but in speaking to his attorney, apparently the judge and the DA, who two days previous had said they would consider revisiting the sentence so that Ed could be immediately released, they said now they were merely considering work release.
[28:38.130 --> 28:44.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I should point out, they're considering work release when, in fact, the same judge has already granted Bernie work release twice.
[28:46.770 --> 28:48.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I don't know why they even have to consider it.
[28:49.010 --> 28:51.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: They should have just immediately at least done that minimal thing.
[28:52.870 --> 28:54.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ed, do you have any...
[28:54.410 --> 28:56.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, you pretty much said it, Pam.
[28:56.950 --> 28:58.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: I should have been parole three months ago.
[28:58.950 --> 29:04.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: My parole eligibility date was three months ago, and there were no reasons to keep me from being released.
[29:04.610 --> 29:10.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I've no history of endangering anyone, no history of violence or anything like that.
[29:10.390 --> 29:15.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: But for some reason, there's been these unexplainable delays going on months and months.
[29:15.310 --> 29:23.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut here or something, but last week they were saying, yeah, you know, it's wrong for you to be imprisoned.
[29:23.470 --> 29:25.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then they seem to have done an about-face.
[29:26.150 --> 29:29.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you think somebody or some entity got to them to make them do an about-face?
[29:30.070 --> 29:32.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: My attorney told me that the judge was...
[29:32.130 --> 29:38.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, my attorney, he finally displayed down what his opinion was, which was you don't generally deal with a judge sometimes.
[29:38.390 --> 29:47.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: But my attorney told the judge, listen, Your Honor, his sentence may have been appropriate at the time that it was handed down, but it certainly is not now.
[29:47.490 --> 29:49.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't think it was appropriate at the time.
[29:49.970 --> 29:55.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was two years in prison for allegedly removing batteries from a Touch-Tone dialer.
[29:55.710 --> 29:56.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, give me a break.
[29:56.750 --> 30:03.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: But in any case, the judge agreed with him that the sentence was no longer appropriate at this point, especially since it should have been released three months ago.
[30:03.390 --> 30:06.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so the judge agreed to revisit it.
[30:06.110 --> 30:07.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Whether he has or not, I don't know.
[30:07.590 --> 30:11.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: But all I know is it's been a week now since he made that statement, and I'm still in jail.
[30:12.070 --> 30:13.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: My attorney's in Indianapolis.
[30:13.150 --> 30:14.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: He'll be back tomorrow.
[30:14.350 --> 30:17.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: And hopefully he'll have an update for me as far as what's going on.
[30:17.330 --> 30:19.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I've been approved for work release.
[30:20.050 --> 30:21.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm three months past my full eligibility date.
[30:21.890 --> 30:26.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm here for a misdemeanor tool, which is a very minor...
[30:26.170 --> 30:31.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: On a scale of 1 to 13 under the Pennsylvania laws, this crime ranks a 2.
[30:32.530 --> 30:33.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, anyhow...
[30:33.410 --> 30:35.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm surprised it doesn't rank a 1 or even less.
[30:35.430 --> 30:36.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'll rank a 2.
[30:36.490 --> 30:39.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess they have, like, spitting on the sidewalk is 1 or something.
[30:39.130 --> 30:39.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[30:40.610 --> 30:46.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, I think what we need to do is be very direct here and ask these people, why are you still in prison?
[30:46.730 --> 30:47.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: What is the reason?
[30:47.750 --> 30:49.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I think they should be forced to answer that.
[30:49.750 --> 30:57.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the phone numbers are on the website, and I wish people would call and try to find out, because everybody I've had tried to call so far has become up empty-handed.
[30:57.970 --> 31:03.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's something else I want to mention besides the fact that I wasn't getting the medication, and still I'm not getting the medication that my doctor's prescribed.
[31:04.830 --> 31:16.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, by the way, when I went to see my surgeon today after much protest over the prison's protest, I told the surgeon what had happened as far as not getting the antibiotics he prescribed or the pain reliever.
[31:16.150 --> 31:16.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: He just took his head.
[31:17.010 --> 31:18.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: He said it was just unbelievable.
[31:18.750 --> 31:23.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: But he said there wasn't really anything to do because he doesn't have authority for what goes on in here.
[31:24.750 --> 31:34.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: But the first night I was here, well, the first day I was here, they didn't give me any lunch, and then that night they gave me a stuffed pepper to eat, which I couldn't possibly eat because my jaws were wired shut.
[31:34.770 --> 31:49.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I complained that I couldn't eat that, and about an hour later they brought me some greasy brown beef broth that was supposed to be my dinner, even though the hospital nutritionist said I should be getting 1,000 calories of protein each day so that my bones would heal properly.
[31:50.150 --> 32:02.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: The next morning I was given grits and toast, neither of which I could eat, and for lunch they brought me more broth, and when I complained I still wasn't getting enough protein, a nurse brought me one of these eight-ounce cans of Ensure.
[32:02.290 --> 32:06.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's one of these liquid diet things that I guess elderly people are supposed to drink.
[32:07.510 --> 32:14.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think the TDA says it's supposed to add life to your years, which for a guy in prison that's not a particularly appealing slogan.
[32:14.550 --> 32:16.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought that was depend undergourmets.
[32:16.450 --> 32:17.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I don't know.
[32:17.290 --> 32:17.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I don't know.
[32:17.790 --> 32:19.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: They haven't issued those to me here yet.
[32:19.150 --> 32:20.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess they both add life.
[32:20.870 --> 32:21.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[32:21.770 --> 32:25.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: But anyhow, this stuff they're feeding me, my main nutrient now is this Ensure stuff.
[32:26.210 --> 32:28.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're giving me four or five cans a day.
[32:29.130 --> 32:45.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: According to the label, they're only 14% protein, and I've worked out the math on that, and according to my calculations and somebody else's calculations, I'd need something like 30 cans a week or something to get the amount of protein from this stuff they're feeding me,
[32:45.890 --> 32:48.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: that my nutritionist at the hospital said I should be getting.
[32:48.370 --> 32:49.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm getting like five.
[32:49.450 --> 32:50.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's ridiculous.
[32:52.550 --> 32:53.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I don't know.
[32:53.750 --> 32:55.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I'll be losing a lot of weight in here.
[32:55.410 --> 32:57.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: I hope it doesn't prevent my bones from healing.
[32:57.490 --> 32:58.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's my main concern.
[32:59.470 --> 32:59.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unbelievable.
[33:00.730 --> 33:01.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[33:02.670 --> 33:08.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm told by one of our nutritionists here that you should ask for Ensure high-protein formula.
[33:08.450 --> 33:09.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, they have a high-protein formula?
[33:09.890 --> 33:10.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[33:10.590 --> 33:11.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what I'm told.
[33:11.550 --> 33:26.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they won't listen to anything I say here, but if people call Correctional Health Care Solutions at, I don't know, even Pam has the number, calls Correctional Health Care Solutions in Chalfont, Pennsylvania, and demands that I get this high-protein version of Ensure,
[33:26.990 --> 33:31.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: that might make a difference because my repeated pleas have been turned down.
[33:31.930 --> 33:32.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you have that number, Pam?
[33:32.990 --> 33:33.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't have it here.
[33:33.830 --> 33:36.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's on the website, and I will post it to the e-mail list.
[33:36.990 --> 33:40.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is it also available on a voice bulletin board system, Pam?
[33:40.850 --> 33:42.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I bet we could set that up.
[33:42.270 --> 33:45.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, what we're going to do is update that recording probably later on tonight.
[33:45.830 --> 33:46.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[33:46.190 --> 33:47.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we'll have all that information.
[33:47.430 --> 33:51.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, of course, people can leave messages there, and that's how we will be getting back to people.
[33:51.230 --> 33:53.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, if you've left a message and you haven't gotten back to yet, you will be.
[33:53.950 --> 33:54.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't worry.
[33:54.550 --> 33:55.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're collecting everything there.
[33:56.970 --> 34:02.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's a phenomenal task because a lot of people are involved, and, of course, we could use all the help we can get.
[34:02.530 --> 34:12.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Logistically, it's a problem to make sure there's not redundant efforts because if one official actually does something to help and then somebody keeps calling to complain, it could really screw things up.
[34:12.690 --> 34:13.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's hard to coordinate.
[34:14.130 --> 34:14.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[34:14.590 --> 34:17.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if somebody does do something, of course, we'll let everybody know that.
[34:17.730 --> 34:20.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: There are some small things happening, but it's just...
[34:20.730 --> 34:26.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, for instance, I was finally able to get to see the surgeon today a couple of days after he wanted to see me after a lot of complaints.
[34:26.470 --> 34:27.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get this, the doctor here, which...
[34:27.990 --> 34:34.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: The health care here is run by an outfit called Correctional Health Care Solutions, which is a part of the Correctional Corporation of America.
[34:34.350 --> 34:37.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's one of these multi-billion-dollar prison-for-profit companies.
[34:37.570 --> 34:42.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: The name of the doctor they have running the show here is Ed Wood, believe it or not.
[34:50.730 --> 34:58.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: About my medical care as far as withholding antibiotics right after surgery and pain medication right after multiple broken bones.
[35:00.370 --> 35:02.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: He refused to consult with my...
[35:02.730 --> 35:07.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: He did this without even consulting with either of my two surgeons, whose names and numbers he'd had.
[35:07.870 --> 35:09.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is just unconscionable.
[35:09.910 --> 35:20.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: When I talked to this doctor yesterday, he said he was not going to allow me to see either of these surgeons because it was outside of Correctional Health Care Services or Solutions.
[35:21.150 --> 35:25.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Apparently, it was a cross-containment issue, and they didn't want to have to spend the extra money for me to see my surgeons.
[35:25.430 --> 35:31.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: The doctor here wanted me to see the prison dentist about all the broken jaw surgery I had.
[35:31.830 --> 35:36.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this dentist isn't going to know anything about all the surgery that I had done or the nerve damage.
[35:36.710 --> 35:41.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right now, my lower lip and chin and upper neck are completely numb.
[35:41.230 --> 35:42.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have no sensation in it at all.
[35:42.730 --> 35:44.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it could be permanent nerve damage.
[35:44.590 --> 35:47.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: I talked to my surgeon today about it, and he says it could be permanent.
[35:47.650 --> 35:48.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll just have to see how it works out.
[35:48.750 --> 35:50.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: He says it's like a 50-50 chance kind of thing.
[35:50.810 --> 35:52.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm very apprehensive about that.
[35:54.410 --> 35:55.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ed, do you want to take some phone calls?
[35:56.170 --> 35:56.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sure.
[35:56.810 --> 35:57.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[35:57.630 --> 36:02.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: People are out there, and they want to talk to Bernie about the events of the past week or so.
[36:03.530 --> 36:04.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-279-3400.
[36:05.110 --> 36:10.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you have any suggestions, plans, you want to get involved in some way, this is the time to do it.
[36:10.910 --> 36:12.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-279-3400.
[36:14.450 --> 36:18.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have, of course, the ways that we mentioned of getting a hold of us.
[36:19.130 --> 36:21.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: The email account, protestat2600.com.
[36:21.910 --> 36:24.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have the website, www.2600.com.
[36:24.390 --> 36:26.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have the voicemail, 516-473-2626.
[36:27.300 --> 36:32.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have the other phone number for people without Touch-Tones, 516-751-2600.
[36:32.740 --> 36:40.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And keep listening to WBAI because we will be airing more on this case outside of this program and throughout the course of the day.
[36:40.700 --> 36:46.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: And hopefully you'll be hearing about this in other places as well, like National Public Radio, the commercial networks, newspapers, magazines.
[36:46.400 --> 36:49.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, that's really up to you because we can't do it all ourselves.
[36:49.640 --> 36:55.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you have any connections, know people anyplace, have phone numbers, the more people calling, the better.
[36:55.560 --> 37:08.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: The one thing I want to make clear is, as far as the treatment I'm getting here, while my case is an extraordinary one, and I got a sentence that was like many, many times greater than the state itself recommended, as far as the health care and things like that go,
[37:08.420 --> 37:09.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: this is standard procedure here.
[37:09.820 --> 37:12.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not the only person who's being subjected to these horrible conditions.
[37:12.520 --> 37:12.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.
[37:13.040 --> 37:16.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is standard operating procedure in this prison.
[37:16.060 --> 37:23.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we've mentioned many times on this radio station and other programs the abysmal treatment that prisoners around the nation get, and this is yet another example of it.
[37:23.940 --> 37:28.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: It just brings it home to the hacker community because this is the first time we've ever seen it happen.
[37:28.920 --> 37:30.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you're going to have to call back, right?
[37:30.360 --> 37:31.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll call right back right now.
[37:31.460 --> 37:31.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[37:32.120 --> 37:32.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: 30-second warning.
[37:33.180 --> 37:35.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we'll call right back, and then I'll take some phone calls.
[37:35.740 --> 37:36.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie S.
[37:36.220 --> 37:39.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: being cut off there at 15-minute time zone.
[37:39.500 --> 37:43.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Pam, maybe you could tell us, you've been handling the voicemail.
[37:43.240 --> 37:44.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: What kind of messages are we getting over there?
[37:44.700 --> 37:46.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're getting a good number of support.
[37:46.860 --> 37:57.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: People just even calling, even if they can't, you know, attend a protest during business hours, voicing their support, asking what they can do to write letters, help us make phone calls, help organize.
[37:58.800 --> 38:07.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really, I mean, I've read Bernie a lot of the messages just to boost his support level, and he really appreciates it.
[38:07.880 --> 38:09.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're getting all sorts of calls coming in.
[38:10.300 --> 38:11.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're getting a call coming in right now.
[38:11.700 --> 38:12.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, let's go for it.
[38:12.160 --> 38:12.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[38:12.940 --> 38:13.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[38:13.800 --> 38:14.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have a telling...
[38:14.760 --> 38:26.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I should point out, though, that people that want the protest to be scheduled for a weekend, something convenient, you have to do something like this when people are around, which is why it'll be happening...
[38:26.840 --> 38:28.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for using...
[38:28.140 --> 38:35.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's why it'll be happening during the week, so that people can, you know, can be there and actually be seen by the people who work in these places.
[38:35.340 --> 38:37.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that's a very important thing.
[38:37.420 --> 38:45.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know it's going to mess up people's work schedules, their school schedules, but it's important to be seen, it's important to be heard, and that's why we are doing it in this way.
[38:46.380 --> 38:46.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie, you there?
[38:47.100 --> 38:47.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm here.
[38:47.820 --> 38:52.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: I may have to hang out the phone shortly because the prison guard is throwing a lot of people up here.
[38:52.620 --> 38:53.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well...
[38:53.320 --> 38:54.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll talk as long as I can.
[38:54.320 --> 38:55.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll keep you on as long as possible.
[38:55.420 --> 38:56.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's go to the phones, then.
[38:57.400 --> 38:58.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[38:58.160 --> 38:58.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on WBAI.
[38:59.400 --> 39:00.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, this is Chris.
[39:00.960 --> 39:01.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who's this?
[39:01.660 --> 39:02.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, Chris.
[39:02.480 --> 39:02.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who's this?
[39:03.020 --> 39:03.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Bernie Hess.
[39:04.020 --> 39:04.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yo, Bernie.
[39:04.740 --> 39:05.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're taking the call.
[39:05.420 --> 39:05.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right on.
[39:05.860 --> 39:06.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[39:06.140 --> 39:13.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, you're the guy that actually was threatened by Detective John Morris for posting something on the Internet.
[39:13.240 --> 39:15.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, which was a total crock of shit.
[39:15.660 --> 39:16.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I never followed through it.
[39:17.160 --> 39:17.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Excuse my language.
[39:18.340 --> 39:19.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, well, we'll let it go this time.
[39:20.460 --> 39:25.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bernie, I just wanted to call and wish you luck and to let you know that we're all behind you, even people who are not in the hacker community.
[39:26.000 --> 39:28.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's more or less a human rights issue now.
[39:28.600 --> 39:28.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[39:29.260 --> 39:32.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's time for all of us to work together and, you know, take care of this.
[39:33.240 --> 39:33.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, great.
[39:34.060 --> 39:38.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: The guard here just said I have two more minutes, so we'll have to wrap my part of this up.
[39:38.140 --> 39:38.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I appreciate it, Chris.
[39:39.080 --> 39:52.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I still feel bad at the fact that this detective threatened to have the fraternal order of police pit bull lawyers sue you for expressing a certainly valid opinion on the Internet.
[39:52.860 --> 39:55.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there's no call for that, but it was...
[39:55.220 --> 39:58.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: That kind of thing was repeated again later when the Secret Service called the...
[39:58.400 --> 40:01.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Didn't they call the WBAI station manager in the manual?
[40:01.980 --> 40:07.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, they called WBAI and tried to get us taken off the air, but I guess they didn't know about WBAI.
[40:07.720 --> 40:09.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: That we don't take that kind of thing.
[40:09.780 --> 40:11.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it sounds like they're all full of hot air, you know?
[40:11.760 --> 40:14.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: They just don't like bad publicity, even when they deserve it.
[40:14.200 --> 40:20.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, they may be full of hot air, but unfortunately they have a lot of power, and we've given them that power, and now it's time to rein them in a bit.
[40:20.580 --> 40:21.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we vote, don't we?
[40:21.760 --> 40:24.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yes, but we don't vote for Secret Service agents, unfortunately.
[40:24.960 --> 40:25.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[40:25.740 --> 40:27.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Otherwise, I know one who would certainly be a lame duck.
[40:29.180 --> 40:31.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, Bernie, anything finally you want to say?
[40:31.460 --> 40:32.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, give out your address or something?
[40:32.840 --> 40:34.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, well, I wanted to add one piece of news.
[40:34.760 --> 40:43.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: That is, I found out that this guy who assaulted me at the other prison, I found out that he had previously been excommunicated from Louis Heracon's nation...
[40:44.960 --> 40:45.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nation of Israel.
[40:45.800 --> 40:52.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, not nation, Fruit of Islam, which is Louis Heracon's organization, had been excommunicated previously for being too violent.
[40:53.560 --> 40:53.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: So...
[40:53.860 --> 40:54.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[40:54.660 --> 40:55.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's saying something.
[40:55.760 --> 40:56.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: That is saying something, for sure.
[40:57.160 --> 41:03.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let me give my address, because I'm not allowed to have anything to read in here, unless it's sent from the publisher directly or from a bookstore.
[41:04.280 --> 41:12.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's Ed Cummings, Northampton County Prison, dash M3, as in Medical 3, that's a cell number.
[41:12.700 --> 41:20.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's at 666 Walnut Street in Easton, E-A-S-T-O-N-T-A.
[41:20.840 --> 41:23.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the zip code is...
[41:23.180 --> 41:24.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see, what is the zip code?
[41:24.840 --> 41:26.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: 1-8-0-4-2.
[41:26.800 --> 41:32.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: And anybody can send me letters, especially long letters, or actually photocopies of magazine articles.
[41:32.740 --> 41:37.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Somebody sent me a good article yesterday on how to dance like John Travolta.
[41:37.400 --> 41:39.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that was the only thing I've had to read so far.
[41:40.520 --> 41:43.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it was the only thing I had, so it was better than nothing.
[41:43.660 --> 41:46.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: The guards actually liked it, and they passed it around and made photocopies.
[41:46.620 --> 41:48.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I assume they're upstairs doing a hustle right now.
[41:49.200 --> 41:49.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[41:50.460 --> 41:52.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's something to picture.
[41:54.300 --> 41:58.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, now, if somebody can send you books, if they are a publisher, what would they have to do?
[41:58.040 --> 42:06.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, just write, uh, reading materials from the publisher on the outside of the package and have it sent to me here that way and hold your... and cross your fingers and hope that I get it.
[42:06.780 --> 42:07.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Other people have tried that.
[42:07.720 --> 42:08.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some have succeeded.
[42:08.540 --> 42:09.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some have not.
[42:09.480 --> 42:12.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh, if it comes from a publisher, uh, they're supposed to let it in.
[42:14.140 --> 42:15.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: So we'll have to see what happens.
[42:15.640 --> 42:18.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if anybody out there works with a publisher, send me anything you can that I could read.
[42:19.000 --> 42:19.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't care what it is.
[42:19.980 --> 42:20.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going out of my monitor.
[42:20.880 --> 42:22.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm in a 7x7 cell.
[42:22.560 --> 42:28.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm in a 6x8 cell with no windows, no clock, no TV, no radio, and nothing to read.
[42:28.500 --> 42:31.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if people could... and I'm locked down 22 and a half hours a day in the cell.
[42:31.860 --> 42:32.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you're in constant pain, too.
[42:33.040 --> 42:33.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't forget that.
[42:33.560 --> 42:34.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, the pain is not as bad as it was.
[42:34.720 --> 42:35.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I should try to forget that.
[42:35.840 --> 42:36.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[42:37.400 --> 42:38.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[42:38.460 --> 42:39.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, how about visiting?
[42:39.620 --> 42:41.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is there any rules on, uh, or updates on that?
[42:41.920 --> 42:49.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, apparently Wednesday night, um, 6.30 to 8.30, um, I can have visits if I prearrange them.
[42:49.280 --> 42:52.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've just prearranged to have three people visit me tomorrow night.
[42:52.460 --> 42:52.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[42:52.720 --> 42:58.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Unfortunately, it's not... it's a very restricted visiting schedule here because I'm in the medical lockdown unit.
[42:58.800 --> 43:02.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they often throw people in here for punishment reasons other than medical reasons.
[43:02.780 --> 43:04.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, um, I don't know what I'm here for.
[43:05.100 --> 43:05.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: If it's not...
[43:05.700 --> 43:10.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: I can't see why I'm here for a locked up down here because it's not like I have a communicable disease or something.
[43:10.920 --> 43:11.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[43:11.100 --> 43:17.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I want people to be able to see you and be able to report back to us as to, you know, how, how you seem to be doing, you know, outside of your particular view.
[43:18.620 --> 43:20.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, I think I'm going to get locked down now.
[43:20.100 --> 43:20.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: The guard's coming back.
[43:21.080 --> 43:21.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[43:21.520 --> 43:23.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, listen, uh, we will be in touch.
[43:23.600 --> 43:24.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: There will be things happening.
[43:24.740 --> 43:25.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you very much.
[43:25.660 --> 43:25.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[43:25.900 --> 43:26.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going for you, man.
[43:26.840 --> 43:27.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks, Chris.
[43:27.840 --> 43:28.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[43:28.180 --> 43:28.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hang in there.
[43:28.640 --> 43:28.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll go now.
[43:29.220 --> 43:30.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Chris, uh, can you stay on for a second?
[43:30.640 --> 43:30.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sure.
[43:31.140 --> 43:31.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[43:31.380 --> 43:31.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[43:31.820 --> 43:33.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, uh, it's good hearing from you.
[43:33.540 --> 43:37.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, has, has anything happened on your particular end of this case?
[43:37.200 --> 43:42.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: The last we heard was, uh, you were being threatened by, uh, by that cop because you were, you didn't even criticize the cop.
[43:42.600 --> 43:46.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: You just criticized the action of, uh, of Bernie being arrested nearly two years ago.
[43:46.820 --> 43:52.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: And all of a sudden you're being, you're being hit with, uh, threats of, of some sort of a slander to shoot from the fraternal order of the police.
[43:52.980 --> 43:54.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, nothing's happened so far.
[43:54.680 --> 43:55.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have my fingers crossed.
[43:56.020 --> 43:58.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, there is no statute of limitations on a civil suit.
[43:58.740 --> 44:00.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, you know, we'll see how that goes.
[44:00.980 --> 44:03.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, from what I can tell, they're not going to do anything.
[44:03.280 --> 44:05.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if they do, they won't get anywhere.
[44:05.460 --> 44:05.780]  Right.
[44:06.100 --> 44:06.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[44:06.420 --> 44:07.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the way it goes.
[44:07.920 --> 44:14.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you know, what, one, one thing I was thinking about recently was, uh, the infighting in the hacker community.
[44:14.000 --> 44:18.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I'm really beginning to believe that this infighting is, uh, going to tear us apart.
[44:19.480 --> 44:31.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, you know, it's a shame it's taken, uh, something, someone like Ed to bring us together, but we really got to stick together and work together and play by the rules in cases like this, or we're going to do more damage to the community.
[44:31.320 --> 44:38.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I consider whose interest it is to have infighting and to have factions and, and, and groups tearing each other apart and things like that.
[44:38.320 --> 44:42.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Obviously, the more that happens, uh, you know, the, the weaker we will be.
[44:42.880 --> 44:43.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[44:43.320 --> 44:47.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: The first thing you do when you have, when you have somebody you want to, uh, conquer is you divide them.
[44:47.840 --> 44:48.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[44:48.060 --> 44:53.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, you divide and conquer, and, and, and that's, uh, that's what you do to your enemy, and they cannot unite against you.
[44:54.460 --> 44:54.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[44:55.140 --> 44:57.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, um, I can think of several instances, but I won't name names.
[44:57.880 --> 44:57.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[44:57.940 --> 44:59.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure we all know who we're talking about here.
[44:59.700 --> 45:05.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we just have to be very careful to avoid that kind of thing in the future, whoever it is, because we're all vulnerable to it.
[45:05.160 --> 45:05.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, we are.
[45:05.900 --> 45:06.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Absolutely.
[45:06.480 --> 45:07.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Most definitely.
[45:07.300 --> 45:08.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this doesn't just go for the hacker community.
[45:09.060 --> 45:10.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: This, this goes well beyond that.
[45:10.300 --> 45:12.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: As you said, this is now a human rights issue.
[45:12.760 --> 45:15.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, I was, uh, thinking about what Fiber said last week.
[45:15.180 --> 45:16.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: He was the one who, uh, brought that up.
[45:16.860 --> 45:17.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[45:17.320 --> 45:18.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Fiber was right on the money there.
[45:19.000 --> 45:19.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Absolutely.
[45:19.660 --> 45:26.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, we need to get other organizations involved in this who take an interest, not in hacker issues, but in human rights affairs.
[45:26.680 --> 45:33.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, you know, we, we need help, because right now they don't seem to be interested at all, and I know that they would be if they had all the facts.
[45:33.740 --> 45:35.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're trying to get to as many people as we can.
[45:35.520 --> 45:36.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: We just cannot get to everybody.
[45:36.740 --> 45:37.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, it's, it's physically impossible.
[45:38.680 --> 45:43.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, any, any help that people can offer us would definitely be, uh, most welcome.
[45:44.300 --> 45:45.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, Chris, good hearing from you.
[45:45.740 --> 45:46.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Take care.
[45:46.280 --> 45:46.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, hang in there.
[45:46.980 --> 45:47.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Please.
[45:48.280 --> 45:55.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yet another voice in this bizarre story which has been unfolding since March of 1995, and I wonder, when is it ever going to end?
[45:56.940 --> 45:57.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[45:57.560 --> 45:58.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[45:58.720 --> 45:59.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[45:59.360 --> 45:59.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, okay.
[45:59.840 --> 46:08.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if you've considered petitioning the governor of Pennsylvania for a pardon, um, as a last resort, um, is that an option?
[46:08.480 --> 46:12.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, his name is on the list of, uh, of phone numbers and addresses that we have on the website.
[46:13.060 --> 46:25.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, there is no formal petition as of yet, but, uh, we certainly think that we can apply some pressure to him through his office, or at least he's aware of the situation, and that way if we do, uh, come up with some sort of a petition, he will know what we're talking about,
[46:25.440 --> 46:27.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: which I think is, is, uh, definitely an advantage.
[46:27.440 --> 46:27.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[46:28.160 --> 46:37.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Also, when this is thankfully all over, I mean, there's the opportunity for Ed to file numerous, um, multi-million dollar lawsuits.
[46:38.320 --> 46:49.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, um, is anyone planning for that stage of this once he is actually released in terms of who to sue, what charges, and, um, you know, what to ask for?
[46:49.760 --> 46:51.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, Pam has something on that.
[46:51.220 --> 46:54.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I've spoken to his lawyer and to Ed about that.
[46:54.320 --> 47:04.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, the first thing he has to do is file the criminal charges against the guy who beat him up, and then he can file the civil cases against both, perhaps all three prisons, Northampton, Lehigh, and Bucks County.
[47:04.820 --> 47:07.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is there something preventing him from doing that in a timely manner?
[47:07.360 --> 47:14.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, well, he's having trouble getting the particular form that you must file to file the criminal, uh, charges against the guy who beat him up.
[47:14.940 --> 47:20.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It should be noted that nobody, no police officers have taken, like, a record of what happened at the time.
[47:20.860 --> 47:29.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't believe any photographs were taken of Ed when he was beat to a pulp, uh, by the hospital or police, so it's a little bit, uh, murky.
[47:29.400 --> 47:32.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: But he does fully intend to file, uh, civil charges against...
[47:32.660 --> 47:39.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we are definitely open to other legal people becoming involved if, uh, just to say that they are interested in helping or, uh, if they have advice to offer.
[47:40.100 --> 47:43.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, by no means are we, are we limited to, to what we have right now.
[47:43.220 --> 47:47.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if somebody out there does want to become involved, please do contact us and we'll get back to you.
[47:47.540 --> 47:47.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry, what?
[47:47.940 --> 47:53.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: He knows, of course, it'll go on for years, and hopefully he'll have the, um, fortitude to, uh, to see it at.
[47:54.120 --> 47:54.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, he will.
[47:54.920 --> 47:55.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: He absolutely will.
[47:55.540 --> 48:00.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the thing is, if it goes on for years, he's going to be fighting them on the outside, not on the inside.
[48:00.700 --> 48:03.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: They won't have him in a stranglehold like they do now.
[48:03.400 --> 48:05.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the advantage they have, and that's how they're able to get away with something.
[48:05.900 --> 48:12.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: When he is actually out as a free man, as he should be, then, uh, they won't be able to, to hide in their, in their prison walls.
[48:12.580 --> 48:14.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: They'll be called to account for what they've done.
[48:14.020 --> 48:20.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wish Ed the best, and Emmanuel, um, I think you're the man to, um, legally, of course, raise hell.
[48:21.020 --> 48:30.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: If anyone can do it, you and your, uh, cadre can do it, and, uh, are you going to just be doing this every week until future notice, just dealing with Bernie for the whole show?
[48:31.020 --> 48:40.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, right now it doesn't seem like there's anything else, really, that would be right to talk about, because when someone is in this much pain and someone has suffered this much, she can't just, like, turn away and talk about something else.
[48:40.860 --> 48:43.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I feel no desire to talk about anything else right now, so...
[48:43.660 --> 48:52.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: One last thing, you were on ABC News, uh, on the overnight show, um, a few months ago, so don't you have connections or someone at ABC News?
[48:52.460 --> 48:57.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we are, we are calling in all our connections, but, uh, it takes, it takes a little bit of time.
[48:57.340 --> 49:02.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have some things that are, that are brewing on the oven, so to say, but, uh, nothing has happened yet.
[49:02.960 --> 49:07.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know there's people out there that have more connections, and everything, everything will help at this point.
[49:07.580 --> 49:09.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I just pray for the data that is released.
[49:09.800 --> 49:11.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, take care, and good luck.
[49:11.040 --> 49:11.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling.
[49:12.860 --> 49:14.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, that day is going to come at some point.
[49:15.080 --> 49:20.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's going to come, and I just hope it's, it's, it's real soon, not, uh, not however far they want to make it.
[49:21.140 --> 49:22.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[49:23.300 --> 49:24.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead, speak up.
[49:24.360 --> 49:24.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello?
[49:24.820 --> 49:26.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, turn down your radio.
[49:26.680 --> 49:27.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[49:28.320 --> 49:29.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please turn down your radio.
[49:29.420 --> 49:30.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, the radio's off.
[49:30.400 --> 49:30.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[49:31.600 --> 49:32.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air, what's on your mind?
[49:32.760 --> 49:43.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, uh, I, uh, I just like to bring in a little bit different approach to this entire editing, because I think we should concentrate on collecting evidence.
[49:43.640 --> 49:46.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, hard evidence, rather than talking about protests.
[49:47.260 --> 49:51.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just a couple minutes ago, we have no pictures from Ed at what happened.
[49:52.160 --> 50:06.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, and, uh, if you remember, the whole thing started with him getting a fax, and then they start a transfer, which in my book is simply a revenge of the prison system, because they think they're untouchable.
[50:07.160 --> 50:10.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: The government has grown beyond what we want it to be.
[50:10.860 --> 50:24.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: So my recommendation, my input is, concentrate on collecting hard evidence for when he is out, and cool it as long as he is in, because they got him.
[50:25.580 --> 50:28.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: They can, they, every time he does something, they move him.
[50:28.740 --> 50:30.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: And every time they move him, it gets worse.
[50:31.320 --> 50:37.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, but you see, now, I'm not sure what kind of evidence you're, you're, you're talking about, but I think cooling it is not an option anymore.
[50:37.460 --> 50:44.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: When somebody goes this far against a human being, you can't just remain quiet until things, uh, calm down, and then raise your voices.
[50:44.640 --> 50:46.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: You need to speak out when you're impassioned.
[50:46.360 --> 50:53.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: I understand you have to try to mobilize the people, but, uh, let's take the case of his uncle.
[50:53.360 --> 50:57.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, he came too close, and he didn't get, probably, a photograph.
[50:57.820 --> 51:05.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: If he would have laid back, if he would have stayed back, if he would have talked to the doctor, and say, doctor, listen, let's take a photograph for our record.
[51:06.200 --> 51:14.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think this could have been done, uh, a little bit more controlled, so that the prison would not be upset.
[51:14.360 --> 51:16.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Every time you upset them, it turns against them.
[51:17.420 --> 51:18.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's, uh, that's a good point.
[51:18.900 --> 51:24.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, maybe, maybe it could have been done a bit more rationally, so that we could have actually gotten something out of it.
[51:24.140 --> 51:32.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the fact of the matter is, the way they behaved was, was inexcusable, and now a lot of people know about that, and I think they will have to account for that as well, so...
[51:32.900 --> 51:33.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Inexcusable.
[51:33.220 --> 51:35.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is a human rights thing, but it's not.
[51:35.360 --> 51:36.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just all the prison.
[51:36.400 --> 51:37.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: They will say, we'll treat everybody.
[51:37.620 --> 51:38.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: He was not a special case.
[51:39.440 --> 51:43.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the, the, the, the case has to be made, because he, he has huge lawsuits.
[51:43.880 --> 51:46.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: He can even go back and open the original case.
[51:47.020 --> 51:53.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Which, uh, when the, uh, the secret service guy said something which is completely, uh, off the record is completely wrong.
[51:54.120 --> 52:01.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this whole thing could be open, but as long as you're in prison, you have to lay down and not make waves.
[52:01.280 --> 52:07.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, but you see, we are not in prison, and we don't have to take this, and, uh, a lot of people are very angry right now.
[52:07.760 --> 52:09.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not going to stop with Bernie.
[52:09.640 --> 52:16.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's going to go on to many, many more people, and it's time, you know, people stand up and prevent that before it happens all over again.
[52:16.420 --> 52:17.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Pam, you have something?
[52:17.420 --> 52:17.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, sir.
[52:17.960 --> 52:23.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, actually, it's, we're getting factions among Ed's friends and supporters, um, saying just those kind of things.
[52:24.160 --> 52:26.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ed himself has said that in the past.
[52:26.520 --> 52:29.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: He hasn't wanted a lot of media attention before now.
[52:29.720 --> 52:34.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but at this point, he is ready for people to support him and protest in any way possible.
[52:34.640 --> 52:37.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, short of killing him, they've pretty much done their worst.
[52:37.740 --> 52:38.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they, they got it.
[52:38.940 --> 52:47.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, the, the fact that they moved him into, uh, a, a, a, a ward where he could have picked up, uh, uh, anything that, uh, that would really kill him.
[52:48.180 --> 52:49.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't put it past them.
[52:49.860 --> 52:55.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're going to try everything because at this point, they realize it is not a case with Ed.
[52:55.660 --> 52:56.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's to protect themselves.
[52:57.240 --> 53:03.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, now, so let me ask you, do you really think that they have that much power that they, they don't have to answer to anybody?
[53:03.380 --> 53:04.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you really think that?
[53:04.440 --> 53:07.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have to answer, but they are very slippery characters.
[53:08.000 --> 53:09.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's very hard to prove anything.
[53:10.120 --> 53:18.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why I say the emphasis should be drawn away from the large publicity and putting it into more danger.
[53:18.660 --> 53:24.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: It should be, uh, put towards collecting hard evidence any way you can.
[53:24.780 --> 53:36.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Legally, illegally, anything, hard evidence, documents, photographs, and they should be taken in a way so that the, uh, prison people do not have a defense.
[53:37.420 --> 53:41.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Once the evidence is taken, it's, it's over and they don't know what hit them.
[53:41.820 --> 53:50.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because if Ed is successful in bringing a lawsuit, if the first lawsuit is won, it will stop in the prison, believe me.
[53:50.460 --> 53:57.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Once you hit them in the pocketbook end, several people ought to lose their job from what they did to it.
[53:57.760 --> 54:03.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: But unless this happens, I think everything is, is going to be forgotten.
[54:03.600 --> 54:03.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[54:04.020 --> 54:04.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, thanks very much for calling.
[54:05.180 --> 54:05.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're welcome.
[54:05.720 --> 54:05.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[54:06.520 --> 54:07.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Interesting points.
[54:07.300 --> 54:12.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I can't say I, I, I disagree with all of them, but, um, I don't know the way I feel right now.
[54:12.980 --> 54:13.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's time to speak up.
[54:13.940 --> 54:20.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's time to do something because, you know, you, you, you sit back and you just let them do what they, what they do because they can.
[54:21.780 --> 54:22.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[54:22.400 --> 54:25.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: It just doesn't seem to ever work where justices serve that way.
[54:25.720 --> 54:28.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: It seems to be a rather fatalistic way of looking at things.
[54:29.300 --> 54:29.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[54:29.840 --> 54:30.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take another phone call.
[54:31.080 --> 54:31.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[54:31.760 --> 54:31.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[54:33.380 --> 54:34.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Speak up, please.
[54:34.840 --> 54:35.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, hello.
[54:35.540 --> 54:36.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, go ahead.
[54:36.420 --> 54:37.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm on the air.
[54:37.420 --> 54:37.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, you are.
[54:38.600 --> 54:39.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, yeah.
[54:39.640 --> 54:41.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, this, uh, Bernie S thing.
[54:42.200 --> 54:42.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[54:43.180 --> 54:47.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I don't want to sound insensitive, but welcome to America.
[54:47.600 --> 54:48.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, yeah, it's a very good point.
[54:48.840 --> 54:50.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I've heard that said many times over the last week.
[54:50.840 --> 54:51.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is not something new.
[54:52.220 --> 55:01.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, uh, and I, I, you know, I'm not going to say like, um, the last person said about, uh, keeping cool and all of that.
[55:01.980 --> 55:11.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: I understand, you know, when someone, uh, you feel close to gets hurt, how people will, you know, uh, do things that may not seem rational at the time.
[55:11.900 --> 55:25.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, um, I think, you know, this, this is an example of, uh, this is an example of how Americans, because I've, in my experience, I've wound up in prison twice.
[55:26.920 --> 55:34.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, it's a hell of an enlightenment as to what the true nature of America is.
[55:35.160 --> 55:37.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Once you find yourself behind those bars.
[55:38.120 --> 55:38.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Absolutely.
[55:39.020 --> 55:39.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Absolutely.
[55:39.540 --> 55:46.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, you know, um, I mean, uh, hey, uh, you know, I, I feel for the guy because I was there.
[55:46.840 --> 55:51.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, uh, you know, I just wanted to, uh, say, you know, welcome to America.
[55:51.980 --> 55:52.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[55:53.040 --> 55:53.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[55:53.880 --> 55:54.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, thanks.
[55:54.340 --> 55:54.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks for calling.
[55:55.040 --> 55:55.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[55:56.540 --> 56:00.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, uh, another thing that you have to remember is why is he in prison?
[56:00.700 --> 56:07.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, this is, you know, you can say a lot of people are in prison, a lot of people are being mistreated and, uh, I certainly feel for them.
[56:07.560 --> 56:09.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's something we, we, we cannot ever forget.
[56:09.900 --> 56:25.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Add to that the reason Ed was put in prison and it becomes all the more crazy when you have someone who is, uh, uh, uh, you know, convicted for having a red box, uh, and, and, and his sentence extended because of a misdemeanor a few years ago where he took battery,
[56:25.760 --> 56:30.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: allegedly took batteries out of a tone dialer, which, uh, in fact was something he didn't actually do himself.
[56:31.260 --> 56:38.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, that's the reason someone serves two years in, in, in prison with other people who, who commit murder and, uh, and rape and all kinds of horrible things.
[56:39.300 --> 56:45.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, they're all being mistreated in some way, but it's just doubly ironic in this case that that can be allowed to happen.
[56:46.040 --> 56:47.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[56:47.440 --> 56:48.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[56:48.180 --> 56:48.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[56:50.220 --> 56:50.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello, go ahead.
[56:51.400 --> 56:51.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello.
[56:52.080 --> 56:52.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, go ahead.
[56:52.640 --> 56:52.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on.
[56:53.340 --> 56:53.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: WBI.
[56:54.100 --> 56:54.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, you're on the air.
[56:55.020 --> 56:55.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[56:55.340 --> 56:58.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me, is that guy that's in prison an American?
[56:58.860 --> 56:59.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yes, he is.
[57:00.400 --> 57:01.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gee whiz.
[57:02.460 --> 57:05.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm sorry to know that he's being treated that way.
[57:06.540 --> 57:08.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, like the other callers said, welcome to America.
[57:09.020 --> 57:09.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[57:10.300 --> 57:10.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye-bye.
[57:11.140 --> 57:11.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[57:12.040 --> 57:18.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it's, uh, I guess if I said he wasn't, he wouldn't have been surprised at all, but, uh, no, this kind of thing happens to anybody.
[57:18.620 --> 57:19.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the point we're making.
[57:20.100 --> 57:20.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[57:21.000 --> 57:21.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[57:21.720 --> 57:22.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[57:22.280 --> 57:22.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[57:22.980 --> 57:32.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I can quickly say that, um, one of the things that any court will, will do is they'll try to settle if you drop charges for, for pursuit afterwards.
[57:32.580 --> 57:35.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: So we, you all know what you can do afterwards.
[57:35.740 --> 57:38.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's, he should not, he shouldn't discuss.
[57:38.520 --> 57:39.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I really do know this.
[57:39.920 --> 57:42.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't discuss all the many things that he's going to do later on.
[57:42.800 --> 57:46.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: We, we know that we, he, he can do that and I, and we'll all be there to help.
[57:46.200 --> 57:55.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: But for now, um, let me just tell you that, um, the ACLU is, uh, and all the, all those other factions are, the ones you should contact are in Pennsylvania.
[57:55.460 --> 57:56.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've, I've been calling loads of them.
[57:57.000 --> 57:58.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the more calls, the better.
[57:58.740 --> 58:04.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: They all are asking for the whole thing in writing before they'll look at it and all that.
[58:04.420 --> 58:07.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: But hopefully that enough calls will make them not require that.
[58:08.020 --> 58:10.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, can you get us a fax number for the Pennsylvania office?
[58:10.400 --> 58:18.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: I know the fax, but I have the phone number for ACLU 215-923-4357.
[58:18.960 --> 58:26.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you wanted the number for the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the correctional, uh, medical, oh, I just had it.
[58:26.480 --> 58:28.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, anyway, you're running out of time.
[58:28.740 --> 58:30.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: So I, I, uh, oh yeah, here it is.
[58:30.480 --> 58:37.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: If it was any, if it's any good to call them, Pam had mentioned that this is a commercial outfit that would be very sensitive to media.
[58:38.260 --> 58:40.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the correctional healthcare solutions.
[58:40.820 --> 58:41.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[58:42.400 --> 58:45.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: 215-822-1050.
[58:45.680 --> 58:54.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: If I could quickly say that I think, although media is very important now because it is a human rights thing, we want to stress that it's human rights.
[58:54.480 --> 58:57.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: I would not call him, I wouldn't use the H word anymore.
[58:58.480 --> 59:04.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think, um, well, you know, call him computer tech, unless, unless it gets to the point where the media have grabbed it.
[59:04.780 --> 59:06.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: But up, up until now.
[59:06.060 --> 59:10.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see, in, in, in a different kind of a way, though, the word hacker also draws media attention.
[59:10.920 --> 59:12.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they see hacker, they might get more interested.
[59:12.820 --> 59:13.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, I see your point.
[59:13.860 --> 59:16.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just think it's kind of hard to get away from that at this, at this stage.
[59:16.940 --> 59:17.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: It was the point I was stressing two months ago.
[59:18.000 --> 59:30.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: It may not be at this point, you know, maybe, maybe now it's time to turn it on, but I mean, there, there was a point where I was, I think I wrote it even in a letter trying to say, well, let's, let's, let's take the, if it becomes uninteresting for them,
[59:30.200 --> 59:33.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: it becomes, you know, they're trying to set an example through him.
[59:34.440 --> 59:35.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not worthwhile.
[59:35.960 --> 59:37.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it becomes uninteresting.
[59:37.640 --> 59:40.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's one of the, that's one of the things.
[59:40.720 --> 59:42.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to, we have to try to take one more phone call.
[59:42.320 --> 59:43.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for all the support.
[59:43.120 --> 59:43.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for the numbers.
[59:44.040 --> 59:46.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: And hopefully more people can get information like that.
[59:46.300 --> 59:47.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see if we can squeeze in one more.
[59:47.680 --> 59:47.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[59:47.980 --> 59:48.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[59:48.800 --> 59:49.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh no, you hung up.
[59:50.180 --> 59:50.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[59:50.540 --> 59:50.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's try this one.
[59:50.980 --> 59:51.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[59:51.320 --> 59:51.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[59:53.320 --> 59:54.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got a bad line.
[59:54.760 --> 59:55.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[59:55.100 --> 59:55.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's try.
[59:55.600 --> 59:56.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know what?
[59:56.020 --> 59:56.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're out of time.
[59:56.640 --> 59:57.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're totally out of time.
[59:57.380 --> 59:57.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I'm sorry.
[59:57.840 --> 01:00:01.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: We won't be able to take any more calls, but I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:02.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, let's give out that information.
[01:00:02.620 --> 01:00:03.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please.
[01:00:03.180 --> 01:00:13.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: We cannot stress enough the importance of calling these numbers, getting involved, counting, because within the next few days, we will be doing something and we need to have a large number of people involved.
[01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:15.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, we're all in this together.
[01:00:15.980 --> 01:00:21.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if you have fears and trepidations, you can share them with us because we all have the same.
[01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:22.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:27.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: The phone number to, to get information is 516-473-2626.
[01:00:27.720 --> 01:00:30.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Around the clock, you can, you can call in the voicemail system there.
[01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:35.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you don't have a touchstone phone, around the clock, you can call 516-751-2600.
[01:00:36.340 --> 01:00:43.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're on the Internet and you want to be part of the mailing list, simply send some email to protest at 2600.com.
[01:00:44.580 --> 01:00:47.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you want to check out the website, get the latest updates there.
[01:00:47.700 --> 01:00:49.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's www.2600.com.
[01:00:49.780 --> 01:00:54.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please spread these numbers, spread these addresses around, get people interested, get people involved.
[01:00:54.500 --> 01:00:55.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, media people, please call them.
[01:00:55.800 --> 01:01:00.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll be back next week with more information and we'll update people then.
[01:01:01.080 --> 01:01:02.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Until then, Emmanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[01:01:03.040 --> 01:01:03.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good night.
[01:01:14.660 --> 01:01:19.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:01:20.140 --> 01:01:24.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a cost.
[01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:27.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: It couldn't get much worse.
[01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:35.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: I hope that's understood.
[01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:36.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: But make me go!