And you're listening to radio station WBAI
in New York. The time is just about
8 o'clock on a Tuesday night
and what that means is it's time for
Off the Hook.
But if they could, they would
I hope that's understood
one minute now.
We'll be right back.
And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is Off the Hook.
It's Emmanuel Goldstein here with you
on this Tuesday night
as we explore the world of cyberspace,
hacking, telephones,
and all kinds of other fun things like that.
And the first thing we're going to do tonight
is explore something we didn't get a chance
to do last week.
And that was take a look at what is
rapidly becoming known as
the newest in scams,
I guess.
And the way it works is this.
You get a piece of email
or maybe even a beep,
if you have a beeper,
advising you to call a particular phone number.
And calling that particular phone number
yields a whopping bill.
Now, I'm not quite sure how whopping the bill is
because I haven't gotten the bill yet.
But I called this number myself
because I wanted to see just what it sounded like.
And I also wanted to be able to show
all kinds of other people
what it sounded like as well.
So what we've done,
we've called the phone number
and it's supposed to keep you on
for as long as possible.
That's the whole trick behind this.
Fiber, you're in the studio.
Have you ever heard of anything like this before?
I can't say I have.
But it sounded like a pretty unique type of service.
Yeah, it's called the 809 scam
because it generally takes place
in the 809 area code.
And I don't quite know how it is.
I mean, maybe you could explain this for us.
How is it that a particular exchange
in a real area code
can somehow yield charges
of up to $25 a minute?
Oh, that can only be through the wonders of SS7.
Uh-huh.
Well, now, I mean, what's the 900 NPA for
if you can do this through other area codes?
Well, it's supposed to be for things like that.
But obviously, through the wonders of technology,
you can shield the consumer
from easy memory agents like 900
knowing that it's going to cost a lot of money.
Yeah, but I mean, where is the billing passed along
is what I'm trying to find out.
This obviously is taking place out of the country.
So can't we just say,
no, we're not going to pay a rip-off price
to another country that decides to charge us?
If you call it one time and get the huge bill,
I don't see why, if you raised a big enough stink,
why your long-distance carrier wouldn't take it off.
Oh, of course.
On a consumer basis, you should be able to do that.
But I'm saying, why is the phone company,
why is the domestic long-distance phone company
charging you because some foreign country somewhere
says this is $25 a minute?
I mean, I don't understand how they are justified in doing that.
Well, it's probably, I mean, obviously somebody
or some department within the phone company
knows that those types of services do exist.
Either they hid this knowledge
from the Public Service Commission
when these tariffs actually get drawn up,
and there's probably nothing to cover
any kind of service like that in the tariffs as they stand.
So, legally through, I don't know if you want to call it a loophole,
more than anything else, it's just a non-existent rule.
I just don't think that there's any checks and balances
being done for something like that.
Okay, well, here's how it works in this particular case.
You get a beep, or you get a piece of email
that says something to the effect of,
this is your final 24 hours to settle your account
before we go to collections
or launch legal proceedings against you.
If you want to settle your account, call this number today.
And so you call this number,
and you hear what we are about to play for you on the air.
Now, the way we did this,
since we can't call it live, obviously,
we don't want to bill WBAI $25 a minute,
or even a dollar a minute, or anything.
So, we called this from a private phone number,
and we recorded it.
And then we transferred it to a voicemail system.
Actually, we transferred it to your voicemail system, Fiber.
Right.
And it doesn't sound that good because we recorded it twice,
and, you know, it's a little bit muffled,
but let's first see if we can successfully get into your voicemail.
It's not going to say your number, is it?
What's that?
It's not going to say your number when I do this.
Your home phone number.
It's not going to say it.
You have to dial it in.
Welcome to the 9X Voice Messaging Service.
I can mute that out.
Okay, yeah, just mute it out.
If you wish to leave a message for the person you called,
please enter their seven-digit telephone number now.
You've got to hit pound first.
If you have a mailbox on the system and wish to access it,
please press pound.
Okay.
Please dial your mailbox number.
Different person.
Whoops.
I've got the first number anyway.
Uh-oh.
Sorry about that.
Mark.
Oh, that's me.
Okay, I have to dial your password.
Oh, is that your password?
Yeah.
Wow.
That's a very funny password.
Very subtle humor you have there.
Yeah.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you dialed.
If you're calling from your own phone, dial your password.
If not, press pound or star.
Please dial your password.
I'll try it again.
Please dial your mailbox number.
Now you went back.
Well, she said if you're not at your home phone, dial your password.
Or if you're not...
I don't know what she said, but let's just do this.
Understand what you dialed.
Uh, she's not understanding, but I'm going to call her again, because this one's a stupid
one.
Let's try it one more time.
The whole purpose of this is so that you can call remotely, right?
Right.
Okay.
Yeah, I do it often.
Welcome to the night.
Please dial your mailbox number.
Okay.
Mark.
Please dial your password.
Okay.
You have...
Ah.
...two saved messages.
There you go.
Main menu.
To hear your messages, press one.
Okay.
To change your personal options...
This is what happens when you call the number and you don't say anything.
First saved message.
Saved today at...
You don't hear all that, though.
05 p.m.
Yes, hello?
Just a moment.
Can someone get that phone?
Just hang on one second.
Look, Ken, I haven't got two pairs of hands today.
No, I'll do it.
Just a moment.
Yes, hello?
Listen, I've been waiting for this other call all day.
Now I've got you on the phone.
Listen, I need the check by end of play today.
Look, don't start that, look.
I think the check will come round or we'll come round and get it.
One of the two, I just haven't got time to play.
Listen.
Listen.
You're so...
I'm just sick, sick up to my eyebrows of people like you.
Look, look, don't interact.
When I'm talking...
Listen, I've got someone else in the other phone and I'm going to speak to them.
Now, just put the phone down and send the chat round.
Thank you.
Hello, are you still there?
Hello, will you speak to me, please?
And stop breathing down the phone.
If you're not going to speak to me, I've got better things to do than sit here
listening to people breathe heavily down the phone.
Now, if you don't say, well, I'm not even going to bother.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
Okay, that's what happens if you just call it.
That's how long it goes for.
Okay, we have to save this message now.
Resaved.
Next message.
Now, this is what happens when you talk back to it.
09 p.m.
Yes, hello?
Hello?
Just a moment.
Can someone get that phone?
Just hang on one second.
Look, Ken, I haven't got two pairs of hands today.
Okay, I'll hold.
Just a moment.
Okay.
Yes, I'm happy to.
Listen, I've been waiting.
I've been waiting for this other call all day.
Now I've got you on the phone.
Listen, I need the check by end of play today.
Look, don't start that.
Look, either the check will come around or we'll come around and get it.
Why don't you tell?
I just haven't got time to play.
Listen.
Listen.
You see, I'm just sick.
Sick up to my eyebrows of people like you.
Look, look, look, don't interrupt.
When I'm talking, listen, I've got someone else going to be on the phone and I'll speak to them.
Now, just put the phone down and send the check round.
Yes, I'm getting a patient.
Well, hello, are you still there?
Yes, I am.
I am here.
I'm trying to butt in when I'm talking.
I'm trying to get it over to you, but you should return and call straight away.
It's no good mumbling down the phone like a dead ferret.
I don't know what's wrong with you.
You had the message.
You were told to call me and you didn't call me.
It was extremely important that I talk to you straight away.
But that was a week ago.
I mean, things don't stand still in this office.
Okay, let me calm down.
Let me explain why I wanted you to call.
I was looking sexy here.
Get out!
Get out!
Get off me!
I don't...
Jimmy, don't factor that down!
To hear this message again, press 1.
To save it...
Okay, well, that's the other reason I don't like 9X is because they cut off your messages.
It went on for some time after that.
And basically, in the end, he admits that it's a voice-activated computer
and that you were tricked into calling it.
And then they give a whole lot of other phone numbers that you can call
where you can have all kinds of other fun conversations
with other fun people in different circumstances.
I called the operator after calling this particular number
and I asked what the rate was
and she said it was no different than a regular call to the 809 area code.
Something like around a dollar a minute.
Now, I've heard other things from other people.
Let's say it's something like $25 a minute.
We'll find out when the bill comes.
Which I guess should be in about 30 days.
Okay, we have other things to get to.
But first, a little traveling music.
We'll be right back.
Oh, yes, that was a bit of fun there.
Nobody got hurt and we all learned something.
That's what it's all about, right?
If you have stories of scams like that, let us know.
There's another scam going around called the 419 scam.
It comes out of Nigeria.
You get some sort of a letter saying that you're needed to deposit a huge amount of money,
like millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars.
And the reason they can't do it is because they're Nigerian nationals or something.
And they'll give you something like 25% of it if you help them out.
And lots of people have gotten this letter.
What happens is they wind up charging you for bank fees and things like that.
And some people have even gotten killed when they went over to Nigeria to meet up with people.
And some misadventures took place, things like that.
So if something is too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true.
That's usually the way I see it.
Here's something that's pretty funny and it also happens to be true.
I saw this on some message that went floating by my screen this week on the Internet.
Apparently there's this software called CyberSitter.
Are you familiar with it, Fiber?
Can't say I am.
Well, CyberSitter basically protects you against speech.
And, you know, speech can be very offensive to some people
and it can be very dangerous in the hands of others.
Anyway, if you say Gary Bauer is a staunch anti-homosexual conservative,
he sees the gay movement as absolutely pure fascism,
and he probably thinks watching gay movies is the greatest terror.
If you put that through the program called CyberSitter, which is blocking software,
it'll strip out the words homosexual, fascism, terror.
Well, the result is Gary Bauer is a staunch anti-conservative.
He sees the gay movement as absolutely pure,
and he probably thinks watching gay movies is the greatest.
So that tells you something about the value of that program
and how important it is to restrict speech wherever possible.
Okay, shocking message smears the Internet.
Have you heard about this one?
This involves a repulsive ad for child pornography.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, now this is something because a week ago today,
I got a copy of this message in my mailbox.
And, in fact, I posted it to a couple of places saying,
hey, look at this.
And everybody that saw it said, you know, I got it too.
Now, the message was basically, I'll read you part of it.
Um, it came from an account called R9CH at where else but AOL.com.
And it, um, the subject was Child XXX.
And basically it starts off, hi, I sent you this letter
because your email address was on a list that fit this category.
I am a fan of child pornography, and for the past four years,
I have been able to gather quite a collection of it.
I have pictures, VHS tapes, posters, audio recordings,
and games based on child pornography.
And, and basically went through this whole long list
of all the different things you can have
and how you should specify hair color, weight, age, height.
Then it goes and gives a price list.
Complete color catalog, 160 pages, $5.
100 pictures of young boys, age 7 to 12, $9.95.
If you prefer age 13 to 17, that's $11.95.
Then videos titled Bath Time, Happy B-Day, Timmy,
Bobby and His Friends, Kid Loves Candy,
and then Mr. Sin, Tale of an Altar Boy.
All these things, you know, were a complete price list.
I thought the thing was, was, was really, really funny
because obviously nobody would be stupid enough
to post their home address at the end of it,
which is what this person supposedly did.
Basically, some guy, I'm not going to give his name
only because he probably has enough trouble as it is,
but some poor guy in Roosevelt Avenue and Jackson Heights.
I don't know what's there.
I don't know who actually lives at this place.
Someone here does.
Okay.
Who is this person?
It's actually the, it turned out that that address
is the, the place of a company that markets
and writes software for the purpose of spamming people
and news groups.
Oh, really?
And the guy, you're right, is up to his ears in hassle.
So, so this is a, this is a company that,
that, that sells software that allows you
to post your message all over the place.
And somebody used that software.
No, somebody apparently got sick of what he was doing
and retaliated.
Well, how do they mail so many people?
Do they actually use his software to do him in?
That's a good question.
Wow.
Is this his real name here?
Yes, it is.
Oh, wow.
Poor guy.
Yeah, so the next day on Channel 4 News
and all over the place,
there was this big hue and cry about how,
you know, the, the child pornographers are at it again.
They're out to, to get everybody.
And they actually dare to do,
do something like this, mail people on the internet.
And the reaction,
I thought the reaction was, was priceless.
A lot of people felt,
like, for instance, this person
thought it was an attempt to intimidate them
after, after he had written articles
against the Communications Decency Act.
The message told recipients their name appeared on a list.
And I think the suggestion was that
whoever was receiving it
was already a recipient of other kinds of pornography.
That made it possible that many people
would want to keep it secret to avoid embarrassment.
This person then heard from two other correspondents
that said that they had received the message as well.
And then, in response to his note to online news,
Associate Professor of Journalism Christopher Harper
of New York University reported back
that some 50 complaints had flooded the switchboard
at New York's 110th Precinct
and that officers and the FBI were en route
to the Jackson Heights, Queens location
provided in the message.
So, I guess that's one way to get the FBI
to show up at somebody's door
is mail everybody on the internet
and say that they sell child porn.
But, it was amazing how the whole media got,
you know, they were more than happy
to get involved in this.
So, if you want to get the media to do a story,
don't do something like Bernie S.
rotting away in prison
or getting beaten up or anything like that.
Just post something about child pornography.
You know, it doesn't have to be true.
It can be totally fabricated and fake.
They will cover it.
They'll make it a front-page story.
Something else that hasn't exactly been front-page news,
but I guess will be affecting all of us real soon.
This is in today's paper.
The dawn of the DVD.
Now, you know about DVDs, right?
A digital video disc.
Yes.
A digital versatile disc.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, if you call it a video disc,
you're limiting its capabilities
because it can also hold sound.
It can be, you know, a CD-ROM type of a thing.
All kinds of things.
Whatever you want it to be, it will be.
The dawn of the DVD age comes to pass.
It was supposed to be in September,
but now it's going to be January.
And Pioneer Electronics plans to bring to the U.S. market
the first digital video disc players.
Yeah, they call it that, too, but it's not right, okay?
And they'll be priced from $599 to $1,750.
The new home format,
which offers superior resolution and sound to VHS tapes
and even laser discs,
has been stymied in its introduction
because of a lack of copy protection encryption in the system.
The major issues of replication concern
have apparently been resolved,
and that's about all they know.
They don't know how expensive the actual discs will be
or the titles or whether there will be titles
or anything like that.
I had read an article when I was up in Canada
about DVD actually being outdated pretty soon
with the introduction of something called Blue Laser,
which basically is about five or six times
the capability of DVD,
which in itself is about 10 to 15 times
the capability of CDs.
So it's just out of control.
Yeah, but eventually aren't we going to exceed
the capability of the human eye to see this resolution?
Well, it's not so much that.
No, it's not the resolution.
It's the storage capability.
For instance, with the Blue Laser technology,
you can fit the entire Encyclopedia Britannica
into a CD-ROM the size of a half-dollar piece.
I see.
Yeah, so you can carry it around in your pocket.
And, you know, it'll just be like space-age things
where you have little data crystals
and you, like, throw them into machines
and view the whole history of the world.
Or your head directly.
Maybe so.
They're working on it.
They certainly are.
I have some quotes here.
Do you want to hear some interesting things
from AT&T operators?
Sure.
AT&T operators get a lot of quotes,
a lot of, you know, priceless remarks.
And they have been saving them over time.
And now they share them with us.
So these are some of the more memorable ones.
Thanks for calling AT&T.
This is Londa.
Who did I call?
London?
No, this is Londa.
Where?
London, England?
And so on.
Okay, I get that all the time.
How about this one?
I've been on hold for months.
Well, if it was 9X, I'd believe it.
But I don't know if AT&T really would
keep someone on hold that long.
Can you tell me if my calling card is in my wallet?
That's just being a plain wise guy.
I was trying to abuse my calling card
and it's just not working.
How about this?
This is my favorite.
I want you to check my bill
to see if I would save money on a different plan.
I'd be glad to do that.
May I have your area code and phone number?
You'll have to look it up.
It's a non-published number.
I don't give it out.
Yes.
I think you're screwing me.
I'm going to throw my phone out the window
with me in it.
I'd like to be an operator, you know?
I meet a lot of interesting people.
To place a call, you just call 1-800-OPERATOR.
How do you spell operator?
I'm not a math wizard, you know?
Yeah.
How about, I didn't make those calls.
I can't even read or write.
One of my other favorites.
Where is area code 900?
Here's one I think you will like.
Is this an average size bill for you?
I think so.
It's usually around 3 inches by 5 inches.
They've been changing around here.
Actually, 9X has changed the size of their bills.
Yeah.
That confused a lot of people.
How about this?
I just dialed a wrong 800 number.
Will I be charged?
Actually, these days, it's possible you may be charged.
You never know.
If you can be charged $25 a minute for an 809 number,
who knows if you can be charged for an 800 number.
Here's another good one.
I guess this is somebody calling concerning her husband's calling patterns.
She's told,
That call is to an adult entertainment line.
Oh, well, at least he's still interested.
How about this?
I need credit on my bill because my dad died tomorrow and I'm broke.
Some people just don't think it out before they speak, you know?
I just dialed this psycho line and it's disconnected.
Psychic, I guess.
I don't know.
I want to know what I can do about harassing phone calls.
These people are threatening me and my wife,
and now they are getting obscene with my daughter.
I don't know who it is.
They always call collect.
Can I put money in this pay phone?
Okay.
When I dial my motherland, she is not very good speaking.
No, ma'am.
AT&T will not call the police if you don't pay your bill.
I lost my checkbook tonight and I need to cancel my checks.
Yeah, that's a good thing to ask an operator.
Is there anything else I can help you with?
Not unless you know any hookers in Rock Hill.
Okay.
I guess every operator has, like, their whole, you know,
long list of stories like this.
What countries do you usually call Germany and New Jersey?
Okay.
I want you to freeze my phone bill.
I've got permission from God.
I'm going to church to see if God can explain my phone bill to me.
I can explain it to you, ma'am.
Yes, but I like his explanations better.
Um, and I guess that's pretty much it.
The rest are kind of, uh, kind of raunchy and I don't want to get into that at this early
hour when children might still be listening.
But there are all kinds of things that operators have to put up with.
You might want to remember that next time you, uh, you speak to an operator.
We talked about, um, a frivolous lawsuit last week, um, concerning the Software Publishers Association.
And what happened, uh, I guess immediately after we got, well, immediately after we got off the air,
but immediately after, you know, that day, um, the lawsuit was dropped.
But, uh, that's right, the, the three plaintiffs, Adobe Systems Inc.,
Claris Corporation, and Traveling Software Inc.
seemed surprised to find that they had filed the lawsuit and sought to distance themselves from the action.
Uh, for instance, Adobe's PR department maintained that Adobe has definitely not filed any such lawsuit.
However, uh, the Software Publishers Association, acting on behalf of those three member software companies,
um, most definitely did bring the lawsuit against Community Connection, also known as C2NET.
Uh, they're a small Oakland-based ISP and software publisher.
They've always forbidden illegal activity on their servers, including software, uh, copyright infringement
and, uh, contributory copyright infringement.
Um, they say, uh, we're very aware of the problems that software companies face from piracy.
Most of our revenue comes from software, and we have our own problems with people pirating, uh, our software.
Um, C2NET President Samir Parikh says,
I just don't think that bullying hard-working ISPs into embracing a highly questionable set of policies
does anything constructive about the problem of piracy.
The, uh, I don't know if you're aware of this, Fiber.
The Software Publishers Association wants ISPs to sign a code of conduct.
Have you heard about this?
Yeah, I did hear about that.
Have you seen a copy of it?
Um, I believe I briefly saw one and probably deleted it shortly thereafter.
That's illegal.
Oh, yeah.
That's an offense.
You could be sued for that.
Uh, it forces ISPs to actively monitor users.
Under current case law, this greatly increases the ISP's liability,
in addition to being extremely expensive, time-consuming, and distasteful to users.
Um, according to, uh, the, the head of C2NET,
the telephone company isn't required to monitor all their users
to make sure they're not saying illegal things.
How can we be expected to do that for our customers' use of the Internet?
Of the over 20 ISPs contacted by the SPA,
many caved in and signed the code of conduct,
fearing a lawsuit from the SPA more than the future expense
and liability problems that result from ongoing monitoring.
Uh, coalition of ISPs and other concerned parties,
the ISP defense coalition,
has formed to oppose these bullying tactics by the SPA.
Uh, the SPA thought they could bully small ISPs,
but they didn't realize we had principles and couldn't be cowed, said Parekh.
So, um, the latest details we have is that the lawsuit was dropped,
so, uh, no further details other than that.
And that's, uh, that's pretty much all we have.
Anything, uh, new and exciting going on in, in your world, Fiber?
Um, well, I think there's something new and exciting going on in, uh, both our worlds.
Oh, there's been plenty new and exciting going on in my world, I'll tell you that.
It's, uh, just no end of excitement.
But, um, it's your turn.
Oh, okay.
Um, well, let's see.
Well, I did get a second ISDN line, which, uh...
A second, you know, a lot of us don't even have one.
Yeah, well, I just had to have two.
Wow, which means you actually have four, right?
I have, uh, four B-channels now, yeah.
Well, that's four phone lines to the, you know...
Technically, yeah.
...unenlightened out there.
Yeah.
Okay, you can pick up four different phones and speak to four different people at once.
If I really was possessed to do that, yeah.
Okay, all right.
And then you can go into three-way and speak to even more people.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I mainly did that, so I'd have access to, uh, two voice lines 100% of the time,
and the other two B-channels I could have accessible for data 100% of the time.
Was it fun having the ISDN people come to your house again?
Um, eh, there wasn't really, uh, much to talk about.
Um, actually, the, uh, the ISDN test that I had was better than theirs.
Oh, really?
I told them that, uh, that they didn't have to, uh, test the line.
Actually, I was irritated because, um, well, on the one hand,
between ordering and actually having it put in was, uh, a week, maybe a week and a half,
which I was impressed at.
A week and a half?
Yeah.
I can get a regular phone line in a week and a half.
Yeah.
But, uh, the, the, the bad part was, um, they, uh, they couldn't get access to my basement
when they came on a Thursday.
Uh-huh.
They came back Friday, got access to the basement, wired everything up,
and then found out that it wasn't yet wired up in the central office.
Uh-huh.
So, uh, they did what they were supposed to do, except I still didn't have the service.
Right.
Apparently, the people must camp out in the central office, because at some point,
while I was asleep, maybe three or four in the morning, apparently, the phone got service.
The ISDN line got its service.
Uh-huh.
That's what those things seem to happen at three or four in the morning.
Yeah, I didn't think I was going to actually see the service until Monday.
I was kind of irritated that it happened on the weekend.
Uh-huh.
But, uh, yeah, lo and behold, when I woke up early, uh, early Saturday morning
to, uh, to, uh, visit the watering hole, I went and checked the, uh, ISDN line
just before I went back to sleep, and, and, and it was working.
Well, that's, uh, that's...
I was pretty impressed.
That's good.
That's good to know.
Yeah.
And the line's working fine?
Yeah, it's been working, uh, it's been working great ever since.
Well, that's, uh, that's good.
A rare success story.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say.
It's, it's, it's rare that such things happen.
Yeah.
Um, I could say some things about 9X.
I'm not going to, but, you know, um, we talked to, um, to Alexis Rosen a few weeks ago from
Panics.
Right.
I don't know if you read Crane's Business, whatever that newspaper is called.
Crane's New York Business.
I think that's out of, out of my, uh, out of my social peer group.
Yeah, I don't even know what it's called, so obviously I don't read it.
But I, I got on the internet a quote that, uh, that he made.
Yeah.
And, um, I don't have the quote in front of me, but basically he was saying how 9X has completely
fouled things up ever since he began operations.
Operations at panics.com, starting in Brooklyn, in Park Slope, then he moved to, uh, uh, to
Broadway, I think, then to Wall Street.
Every time increasing his, uh, the number of lines, every time they fell short of what
it was they said they could provide him.
As a result, now, today, he's leaving New York.
He's going over to New Jersey.
Hmm.
And the reason he's giving for going to New Jersey is 9X's poor service.
And, uh, according to the story in, in, in Crane's, whatever that paper is called, uh,
a lot of people are doing that.
A lot of people are leaving New York, going to Bell Atlantic, uh, because the service is
better over there.
It's kind of sad, actually.
I mean, panics has been around for a long time, and they really were one of the first,
uh, ISPs to become established in New York.
Yeah.
And they were actually a service before people were using the internet.
People are saying it's like when the Dodgers left, you know?
Yeah.
It's, uh, it's a sad day for all of us.
I remember, uh, when I, when I got, when, uh, Panics was still in Brooklyn, um, actually,
no, they had just moved to Manhattan, and I remember it was, um, it was the, uh, first
legal Unix account that I had in New York.
So, uh, it has, uh, has special memories for me, and I still have this account, uh, until
today.
Uh-huh.
At that time, it was still running on a, uh, it was running on a Mac, if you can believe
it.
It was running on a Mac?
Yeah, Panics was a Mac running Unix.
Wow.
Uh, AUX, to be specific.
Those were the days.
Yeah.
Well, hey, have you seen this ad in today's New York Times?
It says, New York rules.
A full-page ad.
Now, last week, I was talking about the, uh, the whole media monopoly, and how, you know,
these people are acting like little babies that own all the cable channels, all the cable
companies, and things like that.
So, you have, uh, Time Warner on one hand, and you have Giuliani and Rupert Murdoch on the
other, you know?
And they're all, like, screaming at each other, and they're all, like, trying to control what
it is that we're watching.
And basically, the people, people like us, you and me, don't have any voice in what it
is we get to see.
Right.
So, uh, now they're trying to turn it into some big, like, nationalistic thing.
Except, you know, it's intranational, I guess.
Uh, and, uh, Fox News Channel has this whole full-page ad-out.
As you know, just to recap, Fox News Channel is the new 24-hour news channel, I guess, which
competes with CNN and MSNBC.
Time Warner Cable, which owns the cable companies here, and also happens to own CNN now, refuses
to carry it, for whatever reason.
They just won't do it.
I mean, some people say, yeah, it's competition.
They, they don't choose to carry competition.
Other people say they don't have enough channels.
Uh, then Giuliani got into it, said, okay, well, we'll put it on a public access channel
then.
And, you know, people are asking, why, why do you care about this?
And it turns out that, get this, I didn't know this last week, his wife works for Fox.
I didn't know that.
His wife is a newscaster on Channel 5 or something like that.
Wow.
Yeah, so that's one thing.
Then the other thing is that, that Rupert Murdoch is a big friend of his and, and supports
him, and, and Pataki and all those people.
Yeah.
So, uh, according to Giuliani, though, that had nothing to do with it.
He just, he just said, you know, we should have competition, and because, uh, news is an educational
thing, I'm going to put it on an educational public access channel, and that's it, you know.
And the court stopped him, uh, it's currently, you know, they're currently battling things.
But right now, today's development, um, in the New York Times, they, they point to, uh,
to two different people, okay?
Uh, and Ted Turner is one of them.
Basically, he's for Atlanta, the Braves, and CNN.
And then you have a taxi driver with a New York Yankee cap on, and basically they say next
to him, he's for New York, the Yankees, and the Fox News channel.
And so right away, you know, they've turned the World Series into their own little battle
between Fox News and CNN, and, um, and they have this, uh, this, this rather silly text
here, better watch out, Ted, another New York comeback is brewing.
New Yorkers want to be able to watch the Fox News channel, and Ted should have learned
New York doesn't like being told it can't win.
And then they tell you to call Time Warner and, uh, ask for the Fox News channel.
You know, you should call the New York Times and ask, you know, maybe they should have
some, some, uh, I don't know, some quality standards when they take out advertising.
But, um, it's just so silly, you know?
I think we should decide what it is we get to see on TV.
I don't think it should be Time Warner, Giuliani, Rupert Murdoch, or anybody.
Yeah.
It's, um, it goes to show you, though, what these, what these media monopolies do.
I mean, Time Warner owns everything.
They really do.
They own the channels.
They own the systems.
They probably own our TV sets.
But, uh, Rupert Murdoch and Fox, they're no better.
You know, they're just spreading out, getting bigger with every day.
And the Yankees, that's a whole other ballgame.
Yeah.
Who owns them?
One of them must own them.
George Steinbrenner owns the Yankees.
Yeah, but who owns George Steinbrenner?
I don't think anybody owns him.
Oh, no, that's not true.
Everyone has their price.
I want Steinbrenner's opinion on this, because that will, uh, you know, I want to see if
he's, like, you know, the Yankee owner takes the Fox side here.
It's, it's also stupid and crazy.
Anyway, that's what's going on.
That's what you can look forward to when, when big business moves into the internet and,
uh, takes things over there.
Um, someone sent us this.
This is a very nice letter that we got, um, in light of last week's show.
A person says, they love the show.
It provides me with a glimmer of hope amidst a morass of frustration.
I like that phrase.
Which one?
Oh, that one.
Uh, thanks for doing us all the great service of disseminating information to protect individual
slash consumer rights from the monoliths of government and large industry.
Now, the article concerns the motor vehicle department.
We talked about this last week, where, um, now they require your social security number
when you renew your license.
An assemblywoman revealed yesterday that she submitted the license plate number of an
aide to a Brooklyn information broker and was quickly provided with all the personal
information the New Jersey Division of Motor Vehicles held on the aide except for her driving
record.
Uh, Loretta Weinberg of Bergen said that for $70, Bob Schlesinger of Coppensstall Incorporated
provided via computer the name and address of Esther Benevitz, her height and weight, the color
of her eyes, driver's license number, the expiration date of her registration, and the make, model,
and vehicle identification number of her car.
The data came less than an hour after the assemblywoman emailed the plate number.
Now, you know what's funny about this?
We can get all that information for, I think, $2 from the New York State Department of Motor
Vehicles.
It doesn't take, you know, an hour, but actually it might if you walk in there with $2.
I don't know.
I've never done it.
They don't have email.
They don't have email.
No.
But they, all that information is, is public information.
In fact, they have CD-ROMs that contain nothing but information about things like this.
You give somebody a license plate number, you get back the car that belongs to it, the
address of the person that owns it.
You give someone's name and you get their entire driving record.
You're almost better off driving without a license.
You would have a strong argument for that.
So it's not something unusual.
You don't have to spend $70 to do it.
It's very easy.
Now, last night, I had an interesting experience last night.
I was on IRC and Internet Relay Chat, for those of you that have not yet turned on the
neck.
And I was talking to some stranger, some total stranger, who said that some guy was harassing
her at some strange school.
And she said, is there anything I could do?
I don't know why she came to me.
You know, she just said, is there anything you could do about this horrible person?
You know, I was going to be kind of rude and say, yeah, just ignore him.
But I figured, you know, I'd give something a try.
Anyway, and so I asked who it was, and she told me.
I looked up his nickname, saw where he was coming from.
I decided to finger that site, saw what he was on the site, saw what his real name was,
saw where he was coming from to get to that site, fingered that site, and found out his
account there.
Then I went to the World Wide Web, connected to that school's homepage, saw a student directory,
connected to the student directory, entered his name that I got from fingering the site.
It gave me his major, where he went to high school, what his current projects were, what
his employment status was, what his fax number was, what his office number was, all kinds
of things like that.
And then I put in my little CD-ROM that has...
Oh, it's me.
Hey, it's that guy's number.
How about that?
No, actually, I put in the CD-ROM, and what I did was I looked up that name again in that
town, and I got all this other information.
Now, if I had access to the motor vehicle department, he'd be totally owned now.
We would have this guy forever, you know?
We could do things under his name.
He would not have his name anymore.
That all took about five minutes, and it didn't cost anything.
So this age of information is no joke.
It's out there.
And if you know how to use it, you can pretty much get things on anybody very, very quickly.
So be careful.
You know, you think things are private, you may have an unlisted phone number, but, you
know, it doesn't really do you a whole lot of good, because there's all kinds of other
things that you do every day.
And if you have a driver's license, if you have a car, if you have a credit card, if you
have a social security number, and I think most of us do, then you're open for anything.
Unless your name is John Smith.
Yeah, if your name is John Smith, it gets a little harder, but, you know, I don't think
it's worth it.
I don't think it's worth the hassle, because of all the things you must get for other John
Smiths, you know?
It almost becomes not worth it after a while.
So, our phone number, 212-279-3400.
If you have anything on your mind that you'd like to share with us, 212-279-3400.
Don't answer line one.
Why, you think line one is him?
Yeah, it definitely is.
It's been flashing almost the whole program.
Yeah, but the thing is, the thing is that 9X cuts off every phone call after about 50
rings.
So, he could be hiding.
So, considering that three lines have been ringing for about 15 minutes now, people have
been sort of bobbled around.
He's definitely one of the first three, then.
Okay, then I'll go to line seven.
Okay.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yeah, okay, that's the last time I take your advice.
Well, it wasn't him, was it?
No, it wasn't him, but it didn't exactly bring the intelligence level up, now, did it?
How do you know?
I'm going to line one.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Go ahead.
Hi, guys, how are you doing?
You're not Rebel.
No, only in my mind, no.
Three things.
Just thought you would find this interesting.
You know Phillips, the, I believe, Dutch company that owns Magnavox?
Yes, they are Dutch.
Just the other day, I got a flyer from them.
It seems they've taken over the Norelco razor company for some reason.
I don't know.
I thought they were a giant multinational electronics company.
Why do you think they would go for something as low-tech and low-profit margin as electric razors?
Well, I don't really know what, you know, I can't think of what their reason.
Well, I mean, consider this.
ITT ran bakeries.
I know.
And they also overthrew some governments.
You know, everyone's involved in their own little thing.
Didn't ITT take over Entenmann's and there was that whole thing with the spider scare or something?
Or is that the Moonies?
I don't know.
Anyway, two other things.
Two other things.
How about just a brief update on Bernie S.?
When's he going to be on the show again or in New York, and how's he doing?
Last I heard, Bernie had his jaw partially unwired, which is good news.
I believe he'll be appearing at the PumpCon conference in Philadelphia this weekend.
I don't know where it is.
Has he filed any lawsuits yet?
That I don't know, and if I did, I probably couldn't say.
Okay, now the last thing.
This is going to be interesting.
Okay.
Guess what?
About a month ago, I got a phone call and a letter.
I was chosen to be a Nielsen household.
Really?
Yeah.
It's like really rare.
I know.
And years ago, I wanted to be with Arbitron so I can boost BAI's ratings, but they said no.
But anyway, the first thing I found unusual was they didn't have my name on the thing they mailed me.
It said occupant, but they had my correct address.
And they called me, and I have an unlisted phone number, which is peripherally I want to know if it's illegal
or if I can sue some person or company for obtaining an unlisted phone number,
because I didn't think to ask them how they got my number.
But first, is it illegal for a person or company to get your unlisted number?
Because I also have been called by public opinion polls who seem to always have my number.
No, and it's not illegal if your number is, I mean, how are they supposed to know your number is unlisted
if you one day gave it to somebody else?
Like if you subscribe to the New York Times or something and they ask for your phone number,
they don't know it's unlisted.
If they call you to ask why you didn't renew your subscription, you know, how are they supposed to know?
So if you tell them not to call you, they're not allowed to continue calling you.
So the thing about being a Nielsen household, now, they mailed me $2.
They wanted me to work for them like 24 hours a day for a week, keeping three logs for each of my televisions.
And I thought to myself, I'm not going to be privy to slave labor and do their work for them for $2,
even though I felt I could have just filled in the shows I wanted to have good ratings.
Because they only wanted you to do it for a one-week period.
I feel like you're a Nielsen household forever.
Well, some are.
There's different ones.
And I guess yours is a one-week thing.
But they sent me $2 and three logs, and I just decided not to do it because I, for various reasons,
I want to keep a low profile.
And they never, they sort of hired, they're located in Florida, if you knew that.
And they hire, like, all of these retirees and what sounds like new immigrants to the country to call you and say,
did you get our stuff and do you have any questions?
And I don't know, you know, how or why they picked me.
I mean, officially, I'm supposed to be legally dead.
But it was just an interesting question.
I won't ask.
But that's, I don't know.
You know, I don't know what I would do if I got something like that.
Because you do have the opportunity to influence.
I know, to influence.
But who knows if it's really, like, if they really keep to it or if they generate their own ratings, you know, to get conspiratorial.
I haven't called for a few weeks.
One more brief thing?
Yes.
Okay, I was just thinking, does the technology exist or do you think within the next 10 or 15 years to have something like this,
sort of like one of those virtual reality headsets, but not for video games or TV, and it would be wireless.
It would be, like, digital modems or whatever, and it would be for the Internet.
It would be, like, you would put on this headset, and you would have, you know, you would see, instead of a computer monitor,
you would see it in front of you, and you would have the stereo sound.
I think if you...
And it would be the Internet, but with voice activation control, so, like, you can be hooked up 24 hours a day and surf the web wearing that thing and just talking.
What do you think of that idea?
Buy a plane ticket to Berkeley, and as soon as you get off, you will see that there's people that are doing things like that right now.
Oh, so when will it, like, be in the market?
I have no idea when they're going to finish, but I know there's all kinds of people thinking about having things strapped to their heads 24 hours a day.
And I didn't even take acid to come up with that idea.
No.
Anyway, great show, you guys.
That thing you played in the beginning, that was, like, something out of Monty Python.
That guy was hilarious.
He had, like, an Australian accent, right?
Was it Australian or...
It's not Australian or British.
I thought it was English, yeah.
And that was all computer, and, like, that wasn't live, or...?
No, it wasn't live, and it did different things depending on how you reacted.
So far, I was only able to get it to do two different things.
I'd like to see you guys pursue this and do, like, fool the operator with them and, like, do something like you did with the ATT and operator, like, call them and ask them for money.
Uh-huh.
Find out who's in charge of it.
Like, that's your mission, okay?
Okay, sounds like...
Take care, guys.
Bye.
Call the operator and ask for money.
I don't know.
I guess we can do things like that if there's demand for it.
Okay, 212-279-3400.
There really are people going around with headsets on.
I saw this TV show on the other night where they were doing things like that.
They actually...
They're incorporating things into cars now that will tell when you're getting tired.
There's a camera that mounts in the dashboard, and it looks at your face.
And if you start nodding off or blinking too much, it sprays peppermint into the air.
Because peppermint apparently wakes people up.
And so your car will do this.
It'll be just like, you know, the opening credits to the prisoner where it tries to knock you out or something.
But it'll be the opposite reason.
It'll be waking you up.
Unless it goes right in your eyes in a blind spot.
I don't know what they're thinking.
But there's all kinds of strangeness going on out there where, you know,
computers are getting involved in virtual reality and headsets and things like that.
So beware.
They're doing research and development in some pretty strange places.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Okay, you've got to speak up, people.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Okay, be near the phone.
Okay, I don't like hearing my voice seven seconds in the past.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, Manuel.
You see, he's the only one that speaks.
That's why he always gets on the air.
Everyone else is kind of, like, in shock when I finally pick up the phone.
Well, we're on location here at 88th Street and West End Avenue.
We are on location.
And what location is this?
Are you going to be swimming around the island?
Okay.
I want to know, what is this new thing, Cool Talk, on Netscape 3.0?
I don't know, but you should be involved in it.
Yes, I am.
But I'm going to when I get my computer back from being fixed.
The other thing is that when I use the real audio, how do I...
All right, I'm going to download real audio.
Where does it go in my computer?
Where...
What directory shall I put it in?
Are you using Windows 95?
Yes.
It should select the directory for you.
Oh, automatically?
Yeah.
It should do...
What it'll do is it'll download a setup file, okay, and just check to see where that setup
file is being downloaded.
Okay.
It'll tell you when it's downloading.
Okay.
And then what you do is you simply run that program, it'll ask you what directory you want
to put it in.
It'll default to a certain one on your C drive.
Okay.
Now, when I use the Cool Talk, is that like a telephone chat on the internet?
I've never used Cool Talk.
Okay.
Now, the other problem that I had was my modem was picking up line noise.
Well, you're in 9X territory, right?
Well, no, no.
You see, the thing was is that it's not my phone line.
Only when my modem picks up the phone is when I vaguely, very faintly hear like AM radio,
and it's interfering with the...
Wait, I have a question.
How can the modem pick up and have you on the phone at the same time?
No, no.
I go in the other room and pick up the phone while I have the modem pick up, and as the
modem picks up the line, I very faintly hear AM radio.
I know what's happening.
The wire for your modem is acting as an antenna, and it's picking up.
I once had an intercom system in my house, just, you know, from one position to another.
I was getting shortwave radio on it.
Now, that interferes with the data.
Like, when I try to email it, it would, like, freeze up.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, it will do that.
Yeah, but when I download files and stuff, it works fine.
Well, I don't know why it doesn't work sometimes, and sometimes...
Maybe they were off the air or something like that, but...
No, no, no.
It was downloading files, I guess, because of the error correction protocol that they, you
know, when you're downloading a file.
Possibly.
The error correction would be on all the time.
It should be.
If it's on, it's on.
Yeah, but why...
How can I prevent my modem from picking up this line noise?
Get, uh...
Get a filter.
How long is the wire that connects your modem to your phone?
To your phone?
Um, that's six feet.
That's a bit long, isn't it?
No, maybe less.
I don't know.
Get a shorter wire, get a different wire, your problems will go away.
No, I did.
I tried that.
I tried a different wire.
I tried moving the computer to the other side of the apartment, and it's just...
If you replace all the wires, there's no way you can have the same problem.
You could get...
You could buy, um, power strips at the Wiz or Radio Shack, and a lot of power strips have
phone line filters on them.
I did.
I bought that, and it still does the same thing.
Oh, then it's in your head.
Well, now, the other thing is, is that why, when I use the modem, the, um, the, the, the
modem, I have a 33.3 modem.
Now, should I make it...
You mean a 33.6 modem?
Yeah, a 33.6, but should I get just a 28.8, because I'm hearing that the 33.6s aren't
very compatible and stuff?
Well, it doesn't matter that you have 33.6 unless you're calling somebody with 33.6.
That's true.
It's, it's useless unless you do that, and I don't know very many people that answer their
phone with 33.6.
Well, you know what they say, Emanuel, you can't shine a turd.
I guess there's a lot of wisdom in that old statement.
Now, let me, let me use that as sort of a smooth transition to another, uh, another bit
of information that, uh, that I got this week, uh, and that is 56K over a regular phone line.
Right, yeah.
What's that all about?
I think I was the one that told you about this.
Yeah, and, and I, I, I brush it off, as usual.
Yeah, actually, what it is, is, um, if, uh, you're a service provider, like, you know,
if you're an internet service provider, you have a T1 to the internet, say, typically,
right?
Right, and, uh, let's say that you also have, like, uh, a channel bank of, uh, phone lines
that, say, come in over a T1.
Like, rather than you having 24 individual phone lines, just as an example, you chose
to get, uh, a T1 service through a MUX that busts out into 24 individual phone lines.
Okay.
Okay, okay, it's basically a demultiplexer box.
Right.
That connects to a channel bank and so on.
If you have a trunk side T1, okay, that breaks out into 24 phone lines.
24 phone lines.
Right.
That means that, essentially, these phone lines are digital.
They're only being converted to analog on your end.
Okay?
Okay.
Because you're plugging analog modems into them.
The person at the other end who has, um, say, for example, who has a digital line, or who
wants to have a digital line.
Okay.
They can call a, uh, they can call the service provider.
And since the service provider doesn't technically need to, uh, convert from analog to digital
at their end, it's only going to be done once to the consumer.
Okay.
If, that, that's where the speed savings is.
If you, the consumer, are using an analog modem at home, that has to be converted to digital
and it gets converted back to analog and back to digital.
And finally, it reaches the other end and then it's converted from digital back to analog
to go through analog modem.
So you get rid of all the conversions.
Yeah.
You eliminate a few of those steps.
You eliminate some of those digital to analog conversions that are no longer necessary because
the internet service provider already has digital phone lines.
Right.
That's where the savings is.
So how fast can it go?
It can go, uh, 56K downstream.
That's, uh, towards the subscriber.
And how far away?
Um.
Um, within reason, I'd say, like, if you were in New York City, you could call somebody
else in New York City.
Uh-huh.
How fast, though?
I mean, would it be 56?
No.
Going that way?
Yeah, no.
Coming back to you from the provider would be 56.
You would be a 28.8.
I see.
Okay.
So it's not quite the same as having a 56K line.
No.
It's not 56K both directions like ISDN is with no loss.
Okay.
But, um, the other thing, though, is the service provider has to buy, uh, U.S. robotics technology
because they're the ones that came out with this.
I see.
So you have to buy one of their boxes.
Well, that's an interesting development.
We'll see if, uh, that goes anywhere.
Let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
I'm sorry.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Oh, good evening.
Uh, last week, uh, you guys were talking about something where, um, there was, like,
this device that read the magnetic strip on the back of the driver's licenses.
Yeah.
Uh, okay, what is that Unicall, then where can I obtain one?
Oh, gosh.
Um, I don't know the exact name of, uh, I mean, a regular magnetic strip reader should be able
to do it.
I wish I could, uh, my driver's license is completely worn out, so it doesn't even have
a magnetic strip anymore.
Well, a driver's license is the ANSI standard three-track?
I believe so.
I've never read mine.
I didn't have a chance to before it got worn off.
Uh, where can someone get?
A magnetic strip reader?
Yeah.
A mouse or electronics, or a digi-key, or one of those?
I don't know if they sell, uh, uh, readers.
Look in, um, um, what's the, Nuts and Volts probably has advertising for that.
Yeah, Nuts and Volts would definitely have ads.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Would you happen to know if this device can be hooked into a computer so that I could,
like, let's say, if I wanted to log all the, uh, the driver's licenses that I swiped
through?
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot, there's lots of kits or, or finished products that'll have an RS-232
port on them that you can connect to a serial port on a computer.
Uh-huh.
And you say Nuts and Volts will have that?
Nuts and Volts.
Nuts and Volts.
Yeah, with a V.
Nuts and Volts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, uh, I, we don't have the 800 number here.
We've given it out in the past, though.
We've given it out in the past, and I'm sure someone out there is going to call in with
it, but it's too late now to give it out because we're off the air, but, uh, if you have
trouble finding them, they're in 909 area code, that much I know, so.
All right, appreciate it.
All right.
You guys have a nice night.
You too.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
That's it for us.
We're out of here.
We're finished.
We're done.
And we won't be on next week because it's election night.
So, uh, while the country is out busy making their decision, oh boy, uh, we'll be doing
something else, I guess, and we'll be back in two weeks talking about how to recover
from the decision that we made.
So, until then, have yourselves a good night.
Oh, music tonight, by the way, was from Ashley McIsaac and the Chemical Brothers.
People want me to tell where the music came from, so I think that's important that
we do that.
Two weeks, we'll be back again.
Emanuel Goldstein, Fiber Optic.
Have yourselves a good night, and I guess vote if you feel like it.
Take care.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Fond du lit bon, but I best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Fond du lit bon!
The
of
Thank you.
In late 1967, the Panthers initiated a free breakfast program for black children and offered free health care to community residents. By the summer of 1968, a community education project and an anti-heroine campaign were added to the services. The party offered coherent strategies to improve the realities of black people's lives.
On Saturday, November 2nd at 7.30 p.m., the anniversary committee of the Black Panther Party will celebrate the 30th anniversary of the founding of the Black Panther Party at the Oberia Dempsey Center, located at 127 West 127th Street between 7th and Lenox Avenues.
For more information, call 718-390.