Off The Hook - 1996-12-31

[00:01.270 --> 00:08.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: Give us your suggestions as to topics, guests, and anything else you want to feed back to We The People.
[00:08.670 --> 00:09.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: I really appreciate it.
[00:09.890 --> 00:11.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I enjoy doing this.
[00:11.930 --> 00:12.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll keep doing it.
[00:12.970 --> 00:15.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe we'll be expanding in the coming year.
[00:15.630 --> 00:17.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Happy New Year to all of you.
[00:17.470 --> 00:17.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good night.
[00:27.810 --> 00:30.530]  [SPEAKER_26]: The future just keeps coming at you.
[00:31.050 --> 00:36.030]  [SPEAKER_26]: And what are your final thoughts as the season comes to an end for us?
[00:36.030 --> 00:39.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the thing I feel badly about is that it went too quickly.
[00:40.330 --> 00:41.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't even remember going down.
[00:42.310 --> 00:43.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: I don't even remember the time.
[00:45.170 --> 00:48.050]  [SPEAKER_21]: I got no more words to describe the way I'm feeling right now.
[00:48.350 --> 00:50.790]  [SPEAKER_21]: The past year has been a little weird.
[00:50.990 --> 00:52.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: Something like...
[00:52.010 --> 00:53.710]  [SPEAKER_24]: The media started calling me a hero.
[00:54.130 --> 00:55.030]  [SPEAKER_24]: And then...
[00:55.030 --> 00:57.310]  [SPEAKER_24]: Probably the third round, I don't even remember the fight.
[00:57.530 --> 00:58.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's kind of overwhelming.
[00:59.010 --> 01:04.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's almost like I get more excited when I reflect back on everything that's happened in a very short period of time.
[01:14.320 --> 01:18.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: Tune in New Year's Eve at 11 for a shortcut through 1996.
[01:18.710 --> 01:19.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: Cool, free every year.
[01:19.970 --> 01:24.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Here on listener-sponsored WBAI, 99.5 FM in New York.
[01:25.740 --> 01:26.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody's here.
[01:27.180 --> 01:29.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is the gem of the year.
[01:29.990 --> 01:32.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the gem of the year.
[01:32.710 --> 01:32.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:34.930 --> 01:38.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just about 8 o'clock on New Year's Eve.
[01:39.240 --> 01:41.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're getting into the spirit of things here.
[01:41.260 --> 01:42.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Time for Off the Hook.
[01:48.910 --> 02:02.370]  [SPEAKER_25]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It's gotten yet much worse I
[02:07.840 --> 02:10.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: hope that's understood But make me move!
[02:40.050 --> 02:42.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just a little of the feedback Jerry Brown was asking for.
[03:02.280 --> 03:03.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[03:03.840 --> 03:05.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: The program is Off the Hook.
[03:05.260 --> 03:10.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: For some reason, our tape recorders aren't working properly and we're getting feedback where we shouldn't be getting feedback.
[03:10.800 --> 03:12.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: But that just happens sometimes.
[03:16.020 --> 03:17.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a little better, I think.
[03:20.000 --> 03:31.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: In any event, it's New Year's Eve and this is the 1996 retrospective program here on Off the Hook where we talk about all the things that have happened in 1996.
[03:31.780 --> 03:37.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: All the exciting, fun, good, bad things that have taken place.
[03:38.720 --> 03:43.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And speeding towards us right now in a taxi cab is fiber optic.
[03:43.860 --> 03:54.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see if we can actually reach him on his GSM phone which has been giving us some rather strange service recently.
[03:55.100 --> 03:55.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see if we can...
[03:55.980 --> 03:57.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's not going to work.
[03:57.180 --> 03:57.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: That line is bad.
[03:57.940 --> 04:00.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: So let's get a better line here.
[04:03.740 --> 04:05.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we should be able to reach him now.
[04:05.800 --> 04:07.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Somewhere in New York City, doing the impossible.
[04:08.300 --> 04:09.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Getting a cab on New Year's Eve.
[04:14.300 --> 04:19.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the speedy connection time is just another function of these new GSM phones.
[04:22.100 --> 04:23.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Nothing seems to be happening.
[04:23.960 --> 04:25.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Ah, there we go.
[04:26.240 --> 04:27.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Took about 15 seconds there.
[04:39.280 --> 04:43.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm becoming less and less thrilled with these things every day.
[04:44.140 --> 04:46.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's try this one more time.
[04:48.680 --> 04:51.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm used to phone calls going through on the first attempt.
[04:53.260 --> 04:54.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: See what happens.
[05:04.000 --> 05:04.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is interesting.
[05:10.680 --> 05:11.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, this is Mark.
[05:11.900 --> 05:12.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not around at the moment.
[05:13.040 --> 05:14.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: So please leave me a message.
[05:14.520 --> 05:18.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or you can press the number one at any time to leave me a numeric page.
[05:18.600 --> 05:18.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks.
[05:19.460 --> 05:31.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, considering we just talked to him two minutes ago, and he said, call me at this number, I'd have to assume that something went wrong with the phone, and he's out of range on whatever block he happens to be on now.
[05:31.120 --> 05:35.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we're just going to keep on trying until we find...
[05:35.960 --> 05:37.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the only thing I got out was the area code.
[05:37.520 --> 05:38.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody knows what that is anyway.
[05:41.380 --> 05:46.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully he's gone another block and is back within range now.
[05:48.320 --> 05:49.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, this is Mark.
[05:49.360 --> 05:50.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not around at the moment.
[05:50.580 --> 05:51.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: So please...
[05:51.040 --> 05:51.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[05:51.660 --> 05:52.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of strange.
[05:53.040 --> 05:55.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we're just going to have to let that sit for a little while.
[05:55.680 --> 05:59.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, so far, we've had the tape recorder malfunction, so we have no theme music.
[05:59.240 --> 06:01.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: The other thing that...
[06:01.120 --> 06:03.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, that's a...
[06:03.200 --> 06:04.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: That tape thing.
[06:04.180 --> 06:04.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can't play a tape on there.
[06:06.940 --> 06:08.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Fibrous phone is not working.
[06:08.260 --> 06:12.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I guess that leaves a continuation of what we were doing last week.
[06:13.160 --> 06:15.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that was the EasyPass system.
[06:16.140 --> 06:18.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I've used EasyPass since last week's show.
[06:18.980 --> 06:28.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's the little system on the bridges and tunnels where you can pass through tollbooths without having to throw money into machines or, worse yet, deal with human beings.
[06:29.240 --> 06:30.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, today I used it, and guess what?
[06:31.000 --> 06:35.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: There were more people online at the EasyPass line than at the cash line.
[06:35.040 --> 06:40.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I had to wait in line while everybody who didn't have EasyPass zipped through and threw cash into the machine.
[06:40.100 --> 06:45.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know if this system is really working out exactly the way that they originally intended it to.
[06:45.540 --> 06:53.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: But in any event, we're going to check with the toll-free number and see if they fixed it from last week.
[06:53.340 --> 06:57.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Remember last week, it said that I had never passed through any tollbooths.
[06:57.520 --> 06:59.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we all know that's not true.
[06:59.700 --> 07:01.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: So let's see if they fixed it since then.
[07:09.450 --> 07:13.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you for calling the MTA Bridges & Tunnels EasyPass Service Center.
[07:13.650 --> 07:20.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: In celebration of New Year's, the EasyPass Telephone Service Center is closed until Thursday, January 2nd at 7 a.m.
[07:21.190 --> 07:25.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: The walk-in service centers will reopen on Thursday at their regularly scheduled times.
[07:26.330 --> 07:32.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're calling from a touch-tone phone, press 1 to use our 24-hour information system or to report a lost or stolen tag.
[07:33.310 --> 07:37.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're calling from a rotary phone, please call again on January 2nd.
[07:37.330 --> 07:39.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you're an EasyPass account holder...
[07:39.190 --> 07:40.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: I love the way his voice changes.
[07:40.350 --> 07:41.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...information or activate a tag.
[07:41.730 --> 07:44.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Press 1 to request an EasyPass application.
[07:44.970 --> 07:49.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Press 2 to listen to Staten Island or Rockaway Broad Channel eligibility information.
[07:49.770 --> 07:50.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Press 3.
[07:50.990 --> 07:54.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you need help completing an EasyPass application, press 4.
[07:54.410 --> 08:03.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: For service center locations, business hours, and mailing addresses, or the schedule of EasyPass bridge openings, press 5 to report a lost or stolen tag.
[08:03.550 --> 08:04.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Press 6.
[08:04.530 --> 08:07.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: To repeat these options, press 9.
[08:07.230 --> 08:08.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I forgot which one I'm supposed to say.
[08:08.910 --> 08:09.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: You may reach a customer...
[08:09.670 --> 08:11.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you're an EasyPass account holder...
[08:11.350 --> 08:11.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's it.
[08:12.470 --> 08:16.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you are an individual account holder and want to activate a tag, press 1.
[08:16.610 --> 08:19.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you are an individual account holder and have questions...
[08:19.530 --> 08:20.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have questions.
[08:20.410 --> 08:25.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...your 7-digit EasyPass account number appears on the letter sent with your tag or at the top of your monthly statement.
[08:25.710 --> 08:31.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: To obtain account information from our 24-hour information system, enter your account number and press the pound button.
[08:31.950 --> 08:38.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, this is the part I have to turn down the microphone for because we don't want my account number getting out there where people could do all kinds of things.
[08:38.650 --> 08:42.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to assume that he's repeating the right number.
[08:42.330 --> 08:42.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[08:43.610 --> 08:43.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: 5.
[08:44.170 --> 08:44.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[08:44.950 --> 08:45.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is correct.
[08:45.430 --> 08:46.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Press the pound button.
[08:46.390 --> 08:47.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: You got at least two numbers there.
[08:47.970 --> 08:48.330]  Press the pound button.
[08:48.430 --> 08:50.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Please hold while we access your account.
[08:55.250 --> 08:56.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is so exciting.
[09:00.280 --> 09:02.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think they have a special flag on my account.
[09:05.140 --> 09:06.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't usually take this long.
[09:07.340 --> 09:09.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: It must be run by the cellular phone people.
[09:11.540 --> 09:11.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[09:11.960 --> 09:19.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, while they're accessing my account, I guess we can just sort of talk about other things because this could take all night, night, I suppose.
[09:21.480 --> 09:21.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[09:22.260 --> 09:23.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's almost as bad as talking to a human.
[09:24.720 --> 09:28.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, speaking of bad experiences talking to humans,
[09:31.880 --> 09:37.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: we've had some confusing times with NYNEX recently involving a service known as Star 6-9.
[09:38.140 --> 09:44.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, supposedly, some people have been getting one mailing saying that if you press Star 6-9, you'll get the numbers said to you.
[09:45.460 --> 09:53.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: And other people are getting mailings saying that if you press Star 6-9, you'll automatically be put through to the phone number without having anything else said to you.
[09:54.440 --> 09:55.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, what...
[09:55.240 --> 09:56.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, this system is really terrible.
[09:56.900 --> 09:57.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to...
[09:57.160 --> 09:58.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: The office is now closed.
[09:58.560 --> 09:59.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course.
[09:59.100 --> 10:02.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: To speak for the customer service representative, call between the hours of 7 a.m.
[10:02.360 --> 10:03.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: and 7 p.m.
[10:03.160 --> 10:03.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Monday through Friday.
[10:04.060 --> 10:05.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: This system is as bad as it can possibly get.
[10:06.040 --> 10:10.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: They put me on hold for two minutes and just tell me that the office is closed after I ask for automated information.
[10:11.260 --> 10:16.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, in any event, so Star 6-9 is confusing everybody because some people seem to be getting voice prompts.
[10:16.680 --> 10:19.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Other people seem to be getting put directly through.
[10:19.640 --> 10:21.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, nobody really knows what the situation is.
[10:22.340 --> 10:24.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see if we can reach FiberOptik again.
[10:26.440 --> 10:35.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: And perhaps later we can take some phone calls from people that have had experiences one way or another with Star 6-9.
[10:41.700 --> 10:44.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like one of the ones that the cellular company has lost.
[10:50.650 --> 10:51.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, this is Mark.
[10:51.910 --> 10:52.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not around at the moment.
[10:53.570 --> 11:04.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the company he uses is Omnipoint and I cannot say I recommend them at this point in time because I'd say about 95% of the calls you make to these numbers fail one way or another.
[11:04.510 --> 11:05.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: It certainly seems that way.
[11:06.550 --> 11:13.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, in other news, we have this just in.
[11:13.730 --> 11:17.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, this came in a couple of days ago and it's rather unfortunate news.
[11:17.890 --> 11:18.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: It involves Kevin Mitnick.
[11:19.870 --> 11:24.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Apparently, Kevin Mitnick was placed in solitary confinement confinement on Saturday.
[11:25.210 --> 11:33.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't allowed to call or notify anyone, not even his lawyer, and there's no date for release from solitary confinement.
[11:34.190 --> 11:40.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we don't really know what that means exactly, but it's not good.
[11:40.610 --> 11:41.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, supposedly...
[11:41.830 --> 11:42.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, here he is.
[11:42.710 --> 11:46.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, Fiber, you have the worst phone service in the world.
[11:46.130 --> 11:46.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: What happened?
[11:47.210 --> 11:48.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: What happened?
[11:48.870 --> 11:49.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's see.
[11:49.590 --> 11:52.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have millions of witnesses this time.
[11:52.230 --> 11:53.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have a working microphone there?
[11:54.030 --> 11:54.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, good.
[11:54.730 --> 11:55.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hope so.
[11:55.610 --> 11:57.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: We called and the call did not go through.
[11:58.190 --> 12:00.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: We called and we got your voicemail.
[12:01.590 --> 12:02.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Your phone does not work.
[12:03.070 --> 12:03.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure it works.
[12:03.750 --> 12:04.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, your phone does not work.
[12:04.790 --> 12:04.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: You called me.
[12:05.170 --> 12:06.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: I called you once.
[12:06.610 --> 12:06.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[12:07.610 --> 12:11.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Nine times out of ten, we do not get through to this new technology.
[12:11.730 --> 12:11.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's not true.
[12:12.510 --> 12:13.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: You want to try right now?
[12:13.890 --> 12:14.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be true.
[12:14.490 --> 12:14.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[12:14.830 --> 12:15.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's try right now.
[12:15.430 --> 12:16.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't touch any secret buttons on there.
[12:16.910 --> 12:17.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not touching anything.
[12:17.850 --> 12:20.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we're going to try.
[12:20.850 --> 12:22.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: You figure, I was speeding up here in a cab.
[12:22.850 --> 12:25.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what most people do when they're on cellular phones.
[12:25.330 --> 12:25.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're moving.
[12:26.010 --> 12:26.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're outside.
[12:26.690 --> 12:32.150]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but there's still some zones where there's pretty spotty service.
[12:32.350 --> 12:33.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, like New York City.
[12:33.390 --> 12:34.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, it's not that big.
[12:34.870 --> 12:35.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, let's see what happens.
[12:41.250 --> 12:43.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see if we actually get you.
[12:43.490 --> 12:44.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Should I answer the phone?
[12:44.450 --> 12:45.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, don't answer the phone.
[12:45.710 --> 12:46.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: You don't want me to answer the phone?
[12:47.090 --> 12:49.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, it was picking up after one ring and giving you a voice.
[12:50.170 --> 12:51.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: Then I had to be out of...
[12:51.990 --> 12:53.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: What kind of stupid ring is that anyway?
[12:53.850 --> 12:55.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I could set the ring to whatever I want to.
[12:56.530 --> 12:58.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Set it to something a little bit more, I don't know, Baroque?
[12:59.050 --> 12:59.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can you do that?
[13:01.730 --> 13:02.090]  Okay.
[13:02.790 --> 13:05.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, in any event, we're glad you finally made it.
[13:05.530 --> 13:05.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[13:05.830 --> 13:08.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Getting a cab on New Year's Eve, that's something that...
[13:08.110 --> 13:09.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: Actually, it wasn't that hard.
[13:09.250 --> 13:15.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: I just couldn't see where I was because I was cutting across town and we're going rather fast.
[13:15.750 --> 13:16.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was in the Empire State Building tonight.
[13:18.730 --> 13:20.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why, it just was sort of...
[13:20.950 --> 13:21.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: It just happened that way?
[13:21.990 --> 13:22.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: I stumbled into it, yeah.
[13:23.050 --> 13:23.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[13:23.490 --> 13:25.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you can see everything up there.
[13:26.150 --> 13:26.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[13:26.570 --> 13:26.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's amazing.
[13:27.030 --> 13:27.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I hear.
[13:27.570 --> 13:28.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's quite something.
[13:28.690 --> 13:31.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know anything about the Star 6ix9 fiasco, where some people get it and some people don't?
[13:32.230 --> 13:34.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't get it because I have ISDN.
[13:34.110 --> 13:35.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: You don't get it on ISDN.
[13:35.230 --> 13:35.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, no, I...
[13:35.870 --> 13:44.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, you don't get Star 6ix9 at all, but I'm saying for the people that get Star 6ix9, some of them are getting recordings saying that this is the number that called you last.
[13:44.730 --> 13:46.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Other people are just getting put right through.
[13:46.330 --> 13:50.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: And now NYNEX is mailing out contradictory things to different people.
[13:50.850 --> 13:51.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[13:51.030 --> 13:55.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: This just came out saying that all you have to do is press Star 6ix9 and you're connected immediately.
[13:55.470 --> 13:57.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't say anything about the number being spoken to you.
[13:57.630 --> 14:01.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Someone else brought in a mailing the other day saying that it was the exact opposite.
[14:02.550 --> 14:02.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now...
[14:02.910 --> 14:05.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think their left hand knows what their right hand is doing.
[14:05.490 --> 14:12.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: I thought the deal was supposed to be it was supposed to tell you the number of the person who last called you and optionally give you the opportunity to connect to that person.
[14:12.830 --> 14:14.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: That is what I understood as well.
[14:14.730 --> 14:17.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: But then I went and I tried it myself.
[14:17.270 --> 14:19.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: I wound up calling somebody back.
[14:19.170 --> 14:19.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't want to call back.
[14:21.090 --> 14:22.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I sort of fell into that trap.
[14:24.330 --> 14:27.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think they announced it prematurely.
[14:27.230 --> 14:27.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think they might have.
[14:28.070 --> 14:29.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Although I hear it's working in some places.
[14:30.650 --> 14:36.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: We just tried the EasyPass system again and their computers are even more messed up than they were last week.
[14:36.730 --> 14:36.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[14:36.990 --> 14:41.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: They tried to access our account put us on hold for about two minutes and said Wait, which one is this?
[14:41.750 --> 14:43.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because I wasn't here on Christmas Eve.
[14:43.590 --> 14:49.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was where we tried to find out what the story was with my passing through tunnels and bridges and things like that.
[14:49.410 --> 14:49.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's right.
[14:49.910 --> 14:50.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[14:50.570 --> 14:53.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: And last week they said I didn't pass through any tunnels and bridges which is wrong.
[14:53.870 --> 14:54.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: I did.
[14:54.650 --> 15:01.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this week they put me on hold while they were looking up my account information and came back after a long time and said the office is closed which I knew.
[15:01.630 --> 15:04.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's why I was accessing the 24-hour automated thing.
[15:05.090 --> 15:05.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know.
[15:05.750 --> 15:08.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're as messed up as your phone company over there is.
[15:10.310 --> 15:15.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: And don't try denying it either because we were here and we did it and we have it on tape and not everybody in New York City has heard it.
[15:15.190 --> 15:15.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: I believe you.
[15:15.990 --> 15:17.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: We tried calling you and it did not work.
[15:17.310 --> 15:18.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: I believe you.
[15:18.710 --> 15:23.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: Actually, there was a dark zone when we were cutting across I think it was 19th Street.
[15:23.290 --> 15:23.530]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[15:23.530 --> 15:24.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: My signal went away.
[15:25.270 --> 15:25.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[15:25.590 --> 15:27.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: But otherwise it seemed to be coming in pretty strong.
[15:28.090 --> 15:30.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was holding the phone in my hand so I could see what the signal strength was.
[15:30.510 --> 15:33.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: We tried three different times over the space of I'd say, what, ten minutes?
[15:33.750 --> 15:34.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, each time.
[15:34.790 --> 15:35.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Each time we got your voicemail.
[15:36.810 --> 15:37.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[15:37.830 --> 15:38.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: How about this?
[15:38.530 --> 15:41.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: An easy, convenient, worry-free way to pay you a NYNEX telephone bill.
[15:41.250 --> 15:43.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe you should look into that since you have such large phone bills.
[15:44.690 --> 15:45.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: What was that?
[15:45.070 --> 15:46.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's not me and you're not answering it now.
[15:47.470 --> 15:48.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, they went away right away.
[15:48.910 --> 15:50.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's me from the past.
[15:52.530 --> 15:53.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: NYNEX direct payment option.
[15:54.890 --> 15:58.150]  [SPEAKER_20]: An easy, convenient, worry-free way to pay your NYNEX telephone bill.
[15:58.150 --> 15:58.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: You don't even see your bill.
[15:58.990 --> 16:00.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: It just goes right into their account.
[16:00.690 --> 16:01.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: Really?
[16:01.130 --> 16:01.530]  [SPEAKER_20]: Isn't that nice?
[16:01.970 --> 16:02.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh.
[16:02.730 --> 16:04.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's kind of like a direct deposit bill.
[16:04.710 --> 16:04.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: Exactly.
[16:05.010 --> 16:06.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, you still have a problem...
[16:06.190 --> 16:06.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Only the opposite.
[16:06.670 --> 16:08.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: You still have a problem with your ISDN bill, don't you?
[16:08.730 --> 16:09.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, yeah.
[16:09.590 --> 16:10.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're billing you for business rates.
[16:10.850 --> 16:11.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, a little problem with that.
[16:12.850 --> 16:13.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, no.
[16:13.350 --> 16:14.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: They gave you credit, didn't they?
[16:14.490 --> 16:17.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: They gave me credit, but they continued billing me for business rates.
[16:17.490 --> 16:20.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: Even after they gave me credit for the business...
[16:20.570 --> 16:23.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: The left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
[16:23.470 --> 16:24.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm telling you, that's what NYNEX is all about.
[16:24.630 --> 16:25.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: So there's something along those lines.
[16:26.470 --> 16:27.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we were talking about Kevin Mitnick.
[16:27.890 --> 16:28.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: You've heard about this, haven't you?
[16:29.050 --> 16:30.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, actually, I heard you in the hallway.
[16:30.690 --> 16:30.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[16:31.390 --> 16:32.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't know what I'm doing out there.
[16:32.470 --> 16:32.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in here.
[16:34.330 --> 16:36.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, yes, Kevin was put in solitary.
[16:37.590 --> 16:48.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: And apparently, and this is really what kind of ticks me off about this, apparently one of the major reasons was that he had copies of 2600 in his cell, which, you know, we've been sending him from the beginning.
[16:48.970 --> 16:54.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's always been interested in what's been going on in the hacker world because a lot of articles are about him or about people like Bernie S.
[16:55.350 --> 16:58.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, that's what prison screening things are for.
[16:58.990 --> 17:01.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: If something is coming in that they feel is unsuitable, they don't give it to you.
[17:02.050 --> 17:04.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, what's the segregation supposed to do?
[17:04.150 --> 17:06.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: Is it supposed to protect him from the reading material?
[17:06.410 --> 17:11.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if the reading material is being protected or he's being protected or the rest of us are being protected.
[17:11.950 --> 17:14.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I think this is really getting crazy.
[17:14.730 --> 17:16.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's no reason for this person to be in prison.
[17:16.690 --> 17:17.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: There is no reason.
[17:17.450 --> 17:19.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's been in there almost two years now.
[17:20.010 --> 17:21.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, what are we talking about?
[17:21.870 --> 17:23.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: We've been saying this from the very beginning.
[17:23.550 --> 17:25.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: What is it that he has done, you know?
[17:25.490 --> 17:30.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: What is the big major thing that makes him be put in prison longer than most hardened criminals are?
[17:30.890 --> 17:32.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's totally crazy.
[17:33.270 --> 17:36.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to be asking some serious questions about that.
[17:36.950 --> 17:42.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to be following this, getting to the heart of the matter, one way or another.
[17:42.830 --> 17:45.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: And any input that people have is most welcome.
[17:47.210 --> 17:49.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: So 1996, we're doing our retrospective.
[17:50.350 --> 17:50.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Retrospective.
[17:50.750 --> 17:52.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you have for 1996?
[17:52.530 --> 17:52.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: What is...
[17:52.990 --> 17:53.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, boy.
[17:54.550 --> 17:56.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the year of insanity.
[17:57.010 --> 18:04.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, it's the year of Kevin, the year of Bernie S, the year of shoddy ISDN service.
[18:04.530 --> 18:05.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah.
[18:05.190 --> 18:06.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's been quite a year.
[18:06.550 --> 18:15.530]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that ultimately what's going to happen is that they're going to get the whole ISDN ordering process completely streamlined, just in time for it to be totally outmoded by some new service.
[18:15.650 --> 18:16.610]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, that's probably true.
[18:16.930 --> 18:17.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: It probably is.
[18:17.990 --> 18:19.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go the way of IntelliDial.
[18:19.890 --> 18:22.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: One of those other great 9x services that no one's heard of.
[18:23.650 --> 18:25.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: This was also the year of the web hack.
[18:25.810 --> 18:26.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true, the web hack.
[18:26.830 --> 18:30.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've never seen so many websites get hacked over the past month or so.
[18:31.010 --> 18:32.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just a couple of days ago, the Air Force.
[18:32.990 --> 18:33.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[18:33.250 --> 18:33.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Did you see this one?
[18:34.110 --> 18:34.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure.
[18:34.570 --> 18:45.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Imagine the horror of the Air Force waking up on Sunday morning and seeing something on their web page saying, you can learn all about government corruption here, learn the secrets that they don't want you to know.
[18:46.490 --> 18:47.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it goes on.
[18:48.210 --> 18:50.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, not to mention the little pornographic movie.
[18:50.330 --> 18:51.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: The little picture there, yeah.
[18:51.430 --> 18:51.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[18:51.690 --> 18:52.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was something.
[18:52.290 --> 18:52.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was something.
[18:52.930 --> 18:53.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, oh boy.
[18:54.330 --> 19:08.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, if people want to see it, and we should warn you, shield your children or senior citizens or whatever, you know, whoever might be offended by this kind of material, because they are like, you know, governmental stuff, you can connect to our website,
[19:08.370 --> 19:14.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: www.2600.com, and you'll see something there about the Air Force being hacked, and that's what the page looks like.
[19:15.630 --> 19:16.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uncensored, uninterrupted.
[19:17.430 --> 19:20.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, yeah, I guess they're probably kind of upset at this one.
[19:20.810 --> 19:21.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: I would think so, yeah.
[19:21.830 --> 19:27.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because, I mean, this was the Department of Justice earlier this year turned into the Department of Injustice.
[19:27.370 --> 19:29.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: The CIA was hacked by the Swedish hackers.
[19:30.030 --> 19:32.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Labor Party was hacked by the English hackers over in England.
[19:33.510 --> 19:34.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: And now the Air Force.
[19:35.230 --> 19:38.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just, I get the feeling that the Air Force doesn't take kindly to this kind of thing.
[19:38.510 --> 19:39.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, I mean, what is it?
[19:39.670 --> 19:43.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Aren't these people listening, or are hackers coming up with new holes?
[19:44.070 --> 19:44.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's up?
[19:44.710 --> 19:45.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why so many?
[19:45.250 --> 19:46.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, they're just not listening.
[19:46.710 --> 19:47.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're not listening.
[19:47.470 --> 19:48.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, I don't think it is.
[19:49.730 --> 19:51.150]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's the same old thing.
[19:51.450 --> 19:56.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, you're aware of what it takes to take over a website.
[19:56.070 --> 20:02.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I know that when you have files that are writable by www, that's not a good thing.
[20:02.190 --> 20:05.530]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, or by whatever user owns the pages.
[20:05.770 --> 20:05.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[20:05.950 --> 20:16.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, I mean, ultimately, for anybody listening that doesn't really understand, a website is just run on a machine connected to the internet, just like any other Unix server connected to the internet.
[20:16.090 --> 20:24.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: If somebody gains privileges on that machine, then they can modify files that make up the website, just like they can modify any other file.
[20:25.170 --> 20:27.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, it's a relatively straightforward thing to do.
[20:27.670 --> 20:30.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: Obviously, the person can gain a lot of attention.
[20:30.470 --> 20:33.610]  [SPEAKER_20]: And isn't it true that either...
[20:33.610 --> 20:38.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: We don't know whether it was the person who actually did it, but weren't people calling the media, claiming responsibility?
[20:38.430 --> 20:39.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, a lot of...
[20:39.450 --> 20:45.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is the one that, apparently, the PR machine really worked for the hackers on this one, because all the media were contacted.
[20:46.090 --> 20:46.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[20:46.270 --> 20:52.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I must have gotten about 25 different people sending me copies of the website this time, as opposed to...
[20:52.010 --> 20:55.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was an anti-fur activist who took over a fur company.
[20:55.430 --> 20:55.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[20:55.690 --> 20:57.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I was only able to get one copy of that.
[20:58.210 --> 21:02.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, this is definitely something that was a lot better publicized.
[21:02.310 --> 21:04.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that's a good thing, because that means...
[21:05.290 --> 21:06.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the odd thing, though...
[21:06.230 --> 21:07.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: They'll be all the more angry about it.
[21:07.130 --> 21:18.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: The odd thing about this particular instance is that numerous people were emailed minutes after the person did this, by the person themselves, from the actual Air Force website.
[21:18.970 --> 21:19.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's true.
[21:19.630 --> 21:20.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
[21:20.270 --> 21:20.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: We got mail from...
[21:20.930 --> 21:25.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was one of the people that got emailed moments after this person did this thing.
[21:25.750 --> 21:25.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[21:26.090 --> 21:27.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I understand quite a number of people did.
[21:28.130 --> 21:34.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know what this person based the selection on, you know, who he decided to send this mail to.
[21:34.950 --> 21:36.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, it's nice to be included, I guess.
[21:36.290 --> 21:37.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: I suppose.
[21:37.630 --> 21:40.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Take action like this, you know, because they do want the word to get out one way or another.
[21:42.490 --> 21:46.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's... you know, I still don't think this is a bad thing, necessarily.
[21:46.510 --> 21:48.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's easily fixed, all right?
[21:48.730 --> 21:49.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: All you have to do is...
[21:49.590 --> 21:52.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Most times, the hackers don't destroy the pages already there.
[21:53.550 --> 21:57.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, if they do, a simple backup would fix that very easily.
[21:58.230 --> 22:00.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, security, it's all you need.
[22:01.030 --> 22:05.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's all you need to do is impose a little bit of security on your system, and this won't happen.
[22:05.510 --> 22:09.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I think it's really embarrassing for the Air Force.
[22:09.850 --> 22:10.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of course.
[22:10.870 --> 22:11.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's got to be.
[22:11.790 --> 22:13.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: Especially after all this time.
[22:13.270 --> 22:13.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[22:13.850 --> 22:18.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's not like, you know, some, you know, department of the Air Force.
[22:18.870 --> 22:19.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the Air Force.
[22:19.890 --> 22:20.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[22:20.030 --> 22:21.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: A-F-dot-M-I-L.
[22:21.650 --> 22:23.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you don't get any more closer to the top than that.
[22:23.710 --> 22:23.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[22:23.950 --> 22:24.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is Milnet.
[22:24.910 --> 22:25.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[22:25.230 --> 22:27.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is almost like doing WhiteHouse.gov.
[22:27.450 --> 22:27.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[22:27.790 --> 22:28.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Which no one's done yet.
[22:28.770 --> 22:29.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's next.
[22:29.350 --> 22:29.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's next.
[22:30.110 --> 22:30.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[22:31.230 --> 22:35.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: These are the people, basically, that can protect secrets about space aliens.
[22:35.510 --> 22:35.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[22:35.750 --> 22:37.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: They can't protect their own website.
[22:37.270 --> 22:37.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have to wonder.
[22:38.130 --> 22:41.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the funny thing is, on this website, they did have some Area 51 links.
[22:42.030 --> 22:44.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: They put links in there to all the things that the government is supposedly hiding.
[22:44.990 --> 22:49.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, all these people, you know, but what kind of people connect to the Air Force website?
[22:50.110 --> 22:50.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um...
[22:50.470 --> 22:50.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who would do that?
[22:51.250 --> 22:51.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[22:52.030 --> 22:55.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Grandpa showing his kid on a Sunday morning, you know, this is what the Air Force is all about, son.
[22:56.090 --> 22:56.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[22:56.490 --> 23:00.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: And all of a sudden, you see all this stuff that you never would think to see there.
[23:00.610 --> 23:01.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'd never want to see.
[23:01.790 --> 23:12.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the reason, the other reason I think that this is kind of clever is that, you know, like I said before, you're using the supposed enemy to transmit your message.
[23:12.490 --> 23:14.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're using their means.
[23:14.670 --> 23:17.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, and they obviously have much greater means than we do.
[23:17.290 --> 23:21.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's almost like writing a note that says, kick me, and taping it on someone's back.
[23:21.390 --> 23:21.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[23:22.250 --> 23:23.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: Someone in authority.
[23:23.370 --> 23:23.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's true.
[23:24.170 --> 23:24.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's true.
[23:26.030 --> 23:29.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I could probably think of a few more analogies than that.
[23:29.730 --> 23:31.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's interesting.
[23:31.590 --> 23:34.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I don't know what they're going to do to the people when they find them, and I'm sure they will find them at some point.
[23:35.010 --> 23:35.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Probably shoot them.
[23:35.710 --> 23:36.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: They seem pretty...
[23:36.550 --> 23:37.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they're going to do something.
[23:38.470 --> 23:39.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll follow this story as well.
[23:40.270 --> 23:41.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you heard about this one.
[23:41.570 --> 23:46.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: One, security professionals have condemned the release of a powerful password cracker.
[23:47.210 --> 23:49.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, it's not a person.
[23:49.270 --> 23:50.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: A person or a program?
[23:50.210 --> 23:50.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not a person.
[23:51.150 --> 23:51.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, it's a program.
[23:52.050 --> 23:53.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the world's most powerful password cracker.
[23:54.090 --> 23:55.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was released over the internet this Christmas.
[23:55.830 --> 23:56.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, boy.
[23:56.510 --> 23:56.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bringing...
[23:56.950 --> 24:00.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm reading from the Telegraph, which is an English...
[24:00.750 --> 24:01.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: British paper, yeah.
[24:01.530 --> 24:01.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: National paper, yeah.
[24:02.550 --> 24:03.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: And not the greatest of them, either.
[24:04.910 --> 24:10.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bringing the wrath of Britain's computer security professionals down on the head of its Oxford-based author, Alec Muffet.
[24:11.250 --> 24:11.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know that name?
[24:12.390 --> 24:14.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Off the top of my head, I can't say anything.
[24:14.570 --> 24:28.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: A network security specialist made Crack5, a large suite of programs capable of generating near-infinite numbers of passwords available on the World Wide Web just before Christmas and has already drawn more than 1,500 hits on his site.
[24:28.490 --> 24:31.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Password cracker programs allow hackers to attack the most common form of security.
[24:31.950 --> 24:36.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: The most basic and crude form of password cracking is to work through every possible combination of letters and numbers.
[24:37.310 --> 24:43.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: However, most passwords are actual words, which massively reduce the amount of work and increases the chance of a successful hack.
[24:43.810 --> 24:55.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Although the program is intended to help system administrators improve their password security and find flaws in their own procedures, earlier versions of crack have become a standard weapon in the hacker's arsenal, allowing easy access to poorly guarded systems.
[24:56.130 --> 25:01.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I don't really see anything in here that says why Crack5 is different than crack.
[25:01.950 --> 25:03.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, I mean, crack has been around for a long time.
[25:03.910 --> 25:04.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody uses crack.
[25:05.150 --> 25:05.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[25:05.570 --> 25:06.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody should use crack.
[25:06.790 --> 25:07.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: That came out wrong.
[25:07.550 --> 25:07.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[25:07.890 --> 25:09.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not what I meant to say.
[25:09.450 --> 25:12.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: But every hacker uses that computer program.
[25:12.170 --> 25:13.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Every hacker uses crack.
[25:13.370 --> 25:14.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Known as crack, yes.
[25:14.030 --> 25:14.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the feds know this.
[25:15.550 --> 25:16.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, they do.
[25:16.310 --> 25:17.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, some of the feds use it, too.
[25:17.690 --> 25:17.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[25:18.670 --> 25:19.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we're on drugs.
[25:19.690 --> 25:31.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: According to Muffet, the people who gain the most by applying crack aren't the big companies who have security budgets, they're the small internet-connected companies or laboratories who need something simple and free to keep themselves secure.
[25:31.930 --> 25:35.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: We seem to have a crack smoker in the studio with us.
[25:35.630 --> 25:35.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[25:35.870 --> 25:36.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know anything about crack?
[25:37.030 --> 25:37.590]  [SPEAKER_29]: Yes.
[25:37.770 --> 25:43.250]  [SPEAKER_29]: One of the benefits of this new version of crack is more variants of the passwords.
[25:43.470 --> 25:55.970]  [SPEAKER_29]: This also makes more changes in the words and makes more attempts and is easier to program But the thing is, if you're using shadow passwording, you still can't get around that.
[25:55.970 --> 25:56.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[25:56.110 --> 26:01.170]  [SPEAKER_29]: If you cannot access the passwords themselves, the encrypted passwords, then this program is useless.
[26:01.330 --> 26:05.150]  [SPEAKER_20]: And since that's pretty much a solution that's been around for a few years now...
[26:05.150 --> 26:09.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: Nine out of ten times you can't access deciphered text passwords.
[26:09.250 --> 26:09.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[26:09.690 --> 26:18.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, for system administrators who are concerned about this kind of thing, as long as you keep that file protected and you don't give out root to everybody, then you should be okay, right?
[26:18.990 --> 26:28.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, yeah, unless you're running an operating system like, I don't know, Linux, for example, which still ships with no shadow passwords as default.
[26:29.670 --> 26:30.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to actually...
[26:30.950 --> 26:32.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: Whoa, again!
[26:32.630 --> 26:33.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, that thing is annoying.
[26:33.610 --> 26:34.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: That really is annoying.
[26:34.870 --> 26:43.910]  [SPEAKER_29]: And there are a number of people that know that this is a potential weapon and yet still refuse to utilize shadow passwords on their system.
[26:44.050 --> 26:46.370]  [SPEAKER_29]: Just as we were just talking about AirForce.mil.
[26:46.370 --> 26:48.950]  [SPEAKER_29]: That, you know, they know about the holes and they don't patch them.
[26:49.190 --> 26:56.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, then there's those percentage of people that use Yellow Pages, NIS, on wide area networks.
[26:57.170 --> 27:18.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: And there's a number of cracking utilities that are floating around and have been for some time that do things like forging RPC calls in order to gain access to password maps from from Yellow Pages master servers and guessing Yellow Pages domain names and things of that sort.
[27:19.410 --> 27:35.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: And people think that they're actually securing their site by centrally locating a large password database for their entire domain and, you know, putting all kinds of firewalls and nonsense on that one server and concentrating all the security.
[27:35.850 --> 27:54.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: But when in reality, unbeknownst to them, they're actually making all the passwords conveniently located in one central location for someone to attack and gain access to an entire domain simply by hitting one machine instead of the entire enterprise-wide network.
[27:54.530 --> 27:54.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[27:54.990 --> 27:55.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[27:55.270 --> 27:57.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: So it's a way of getting around whatever security has been installed.
[27:57.270 --> 27:57.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[27:57.310 --> 28:00.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's actually working against them when they think it's working in their favor.
[28:00.990 --> 28:02.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's not the first time we've heard that.
[28:03.430 --> 28:05.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here's something that just came in.
[28:05.530 --> 28:06.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lost dog on the web.
[28:07.050 --> 28:07.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Did you hear about this?
[28:08.110 --> 28:08.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[28:09.090 --> 28:11.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Boris has been missing since December 24th.
[28:11.770 --> 28:13.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's somewhere in the borough of Queens.
[28:13.730 --> 28:16.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: And he's on www.woofs.org.
[28:16.610 --> 28:18.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: W-O-O-F-S dot org.
[28:18.930 --> 28:20.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a description of him.
[28:21.390 --> 28:25.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, it's a website that advocates for cats and dogs.
[28:25.330 --> 28:26.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know exactly what that means.
[28:26.790 --> 28:29.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess cats and dogs rights or something like that.
[28:30.810 --> 28:32.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they've got a description of Boris on the internet.
[28:34.630 --> 28:40.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you've seen Boris, I guess you can connect to that site and see if he matches whatever description there is over there.
[28:40.730 --> 28:43.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: So let's see if the web can help find this dog that's running around somewhere in Queens.
[28:44.790 --> 28:47.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: He bolted from LaGuardia Airport on Christmas Eve.
[28:48.250 --> 28:49.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think about that?
[28:49.190 --> 28:50.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's a four-year-old boxer mix.
[28:51.810 --> 28:53.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Running around somewhere in the terminals there.
[28:53.430 --> 28:53.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Poor guy.
[28:53.990 --> 28:54.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[28:54.650 --> 28:57.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Our phone number is 212-279-3400.
[28:58.610 --> 28:59.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You got your noisemakers?
[29:00.730 --> 29:01.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, actually.
[29:02.030 --> 29:02.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
[29:02.510 --> 29:03.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can make noises with my phone.
[29:04.090 --> 29:04.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
[29:04.850 --> 29:06.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we can have a grand all-time here.
[29:08.890 --> 29:09.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: This crazy...
[29:09.770 --> 29:11.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: How many different rings do you have?
[29:12.470 --> 29:19.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: I got, oh, I don't know, maybe five or six different little tunes and then different variations of just rings.
[29:19.630 --> 29:19.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[29:20.550 --> 29:22.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: Like typical ringing sounds.
[29:23.170 --> 29:24.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I like that better.
[29:24.490 --> 29:25.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I like the typical ringing sound.
[29:25.610 --> 29:25.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[29:25.670 --> 29:27.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: I like the typical beeping sounds on beepers.
[29:27.570 --> 29:29.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: I like the ringing sounds on phones.
[29:29.350 --> 29:32.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: I like those little symphonies and tiny little songs.
[29:32.330 --> 29:34.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: I like it just as a change of pace.
[29:35.930 --> 29:36.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Gets to be different.
[29:36.970 --> 29:38.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: Pretty old, pretty fast.
[29:38.950 --> 29:39.150]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[29:40.170 --> 29:40.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Memphis, Tennessee.
[29:41.150 --> 29:41.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[29:41.510 --> 29:41.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[29:42.430 --> 29:44.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you're calling from Memphis, Tennessee?
[29:44.770 --> 29:46.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I just like to say that, actually.
[29:46.330 --> 29:48.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because I'm sort of pretending it's a national show, you know?
[29:48.910 --> 29:52.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I just like to say the name of the city and hopefully somebody from that city will be calling.
[29:52.170 --> 29:53.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's okay if we get you.
[29:53.570 --> 29:54.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, good.
[29:54.530 --> 29:55.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm interested.
[29:56.150 --> 30:00.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: The thing is, I can't stand the intro to the NYNEX.
[30:00.730 --> 30:02.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Welcome to the world of NYNEX.
[30:02.890 --> 30:03.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know that?
[30:03.670 --> 30:04.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's really disgusting.
[30:04.430 --> 30:05.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the world of NYNEX.
[30:05.830 --> 30:06.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I haven't heard that one.
[30:06.730 --> 30:15.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, when you call in for information, 411, it used to be they'd say, hello, information, or they'd say, you know, what number.
[30:15.690 --> 30:16.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Used to be you got a person.
[30:17.030 --> 30:21.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, yeah, now you get a recording, and then you get a person.
[30:21.230 --> 30:30.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it takes so much longer to get a number from information now, because you have to say the number, then they have to repeat the number, ring somebody someplace, and then they give you the number finally.
[30:30.690 --> 30:33.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Used to be you could just call, ask, get it, and that's it.
[30:33.190 --> 30:34.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's what I'm kind of complaining about.
[30:35.150 --> 30:36.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's like a delay.
[30:36.210 --> 30:41.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then they ask you, would you like it to be rung, you know, automatically?
[30:41.350 --> 30:42.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just say yes, or...
[30:42.530 --> 30:44.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and they say that before they give you the number.
[30:44.130 --> 30:47.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: For an additional charge of so-and-so, the number we're about to give you can be dialed.
[30:47.770 --> 30:50.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: All you have to do is press 1 after we give you the number, which will be soon.
[30:50.310 --> 30:55.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I just can't stand that whole idea that people are so, you know, no longer able to handle it themselves.
[30:56.130 --> 31:01.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, of course, there are people with money, and if they're doing it for a company, they can do it.
[31:01.930 --> 31:03.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm interested in your attitude.
[31:03.830 --> 31:16.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: If, for instance, you were, let's say, working for the government or, you know, any firm or anything, if you had your own business, how would you feel about somebody hacking into you?
[31:18.290 --> 31:20.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's look at this at a level that's more realistic.
[31:20.610 --> 31:24.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's look at someone hacking into us, you know, 2600.com.
[31:24.470 --> 31:26.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, into your magazine.
[31:26.630 --> 31:29.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because I cannot conceive of what it's like to be a big bureaucratic governmental agency.
[31:30.030 --> 31:33.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm not talking about the bureaucratic aspect.
[31:33.090 --> 31:43.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm talking about the, shall we say, safety aspect of the movement of information.
[31:44.630 --> 31:54.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Somebody tells somebody, say, oh, you know, I hacked in here, and I found out that there's this, I found out that there's that, which, you know, could then fall into the third and fourth, fifth party.
[31:54.250 --> 32:05.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the thing is, if you are a governmental agency out there and you're on the Internet, the most important thing is to realize that anything that you do on the Internet that's not encrypted can be read by somebody at some point.
[32:05.410 --> 32:08.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: And with that knowledge, I think you won't put as many...
[32:08.710 --> 32:09.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Vital things.
[32:09.630 --> 32:10.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, really vital things out there.
[32:11.010 --> 32:12.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but I'm not talking about the Internet.
[32:12.790 --> 32:15.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you know, it's easy to say what you just said.
[32:15.250 --> 32:21.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm talking about anybody using computer equipment that involves electricity, you might say.
[32:22.790 --> 32:33.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I mean, that's what I think your friend, you know, who's in prison, I mean, I think that that's what the problem is, that they feel that...
[32:33.330 --> 32:37.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did he just do Internet, or did he do, you know...
[32:37.470 --> 32:38.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're talking about Kevin Mitnick.
[32:38.650 --> 32:39.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, any of these people.
[32:40.070 --> 32:46.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did they do direct into some, you know, non-Internet?
[32:46.110 --> 32:49.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, after all, the Internet is theoretically accessible to...
[32:50.470 --> 32:55.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it's supposed to be between, you know, society and other groups and all that, you know.
[32:55.690 --> 32:58.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they've been very hazy on what they're accusing him of actually doing.
[32:58.910 --> 32:59.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[32:59.370 --> 33:03.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't recall anything being said of him hacking into something off the Internet or...
[33:03.890 --> 33:06.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm saying other than the Internet.
[33:06.530 --> 33:08.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, that's why I said your own business.
[33:08.670 --> 33:11.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I didn't mean a business that might be on Internet.
[33:11.490 --> 33:12.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean a business, period.
[33:14.690 --> 33:22.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: The thing is, I mean, if you keep some sort of security there, then you don't have to worry about this kind of thing.
[33:22.390 --> 33:27.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you do get broken into, you know about it pretty quickly, and you can assess the damage and move on from there.
[33:27.290 --> 33:28.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, now I'm glad you used the word damage.
[33:29.230 --> 33:41.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, each one of us has a reputation, and I know from personal experience, that if somebody says something on the air, let's say, and makes some kind of remark about you, you know, in passing.
[33:41.030 --> 33:41.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Interesting.
[33:41.650 --> 33:48.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, the other day, David Rothenberg made a comment about me on the air, and I called in and I said, David, equal time.
[33:49.290 --> 33:50.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let me ask you a question.
[33:50.750 --> 33:52.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you believe in equal time?
[33:52.310 --> 33:52.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I do.
[33:53.130 --> 33:57.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: And unfortunately, though, we can't address that issue right now because it's got to do with another show.
[33:58.050 --> 33:59.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You've got to, you know, address that on this show.
[33:59.890 --> 34:05.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I also, I don't mean to cut you off, but we have somebody who's calling in right now who we really want to talk to.
[34:06.530 --> 34:08.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: And is that mystery person on the phone?
[34:09.230 --> 34:10.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Who is that mystery person?
[34:10.750 --> 34:11.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, well, well.
[34:11.370 --> 34:11.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Look who it is.
[34:12.030 --> 34:12.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bernie S.
[34:12.570 --> 34:13.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie S.
[34:13.270 --> 34:14.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's been a while since we heard from you.
[34:14.750 --> 34:15.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: It has.
[34:15.250 --> 34:17.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've been in the healing process.
[34:17.510 --> 34:18.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you sound much better.
[34:19.290 --> 34:20.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: I am much better.
[34:20.210 --> 34:22.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess you can open your mouth fully now.
[34:22.290 --> 34:22.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, not fully.
[34:22.970 --> 34:24.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can open it about two-thirds.
[34:25.030 --> 34:26.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's still difficult for me to...
[34:26.470 --> 34:33.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yesterday, I was eating a donut, and I realized that I couldn't open my mouth to encompass the whole width of the donut.
[34:34.030 --> 34:36.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: I had to sort of squeeze it to force it in my mouth.
[34:36.710 --> 34:44.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's tough eating apples and things like that, but at least I don't have to be on a liquid diet anymore.
[34:44.190 --> 34:44.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
[34:44.950 --> 34:50.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: So how has the recovery process been going since you were released from prison, which was, what, a couple of months ago now?
[34:50.330 --> 34:52.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was late September.
[34:54.290 --> 35:00.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Physically, it's going pretty well, and mentally and emotionally and psychologically and all that, but it's going.
[35:00.430 --> 35:03.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've been immersing myself in work.
[35:03.090 --> 35:08.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: I work for an Internet service provider in Wilmington, Delaware now as a systems analyst.
[35:08.290 --> 35:08.530]  Uh-huh.
[35:08.730 --> 35:19.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And spending many hours working at that job, so it keeps me from thinking about events over the past year, which are best not thought too much about.
[35:19.610 --> 35:19.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[35:19.990 --> 35:24.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Even though we are doing a retrospective show tonight in 1996, I certainly understand what you're saying.
[35:24.510 --> 35:27.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Someone called me to say you were doing that, so I thought I'd give you a call.
[35:27.490 --> 35:27.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[35:27.850 --> 35:28.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, great.
[35:28.250 --> 35:31.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can stay on the line if you want and take some phone calls with us.
[35:31.690 --> 35:31.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[35:32.130 --> 35:32.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Would you like to do that?
[35:32.790 --> 35:33.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: That'd be great.
[35:33.450 --> 35:40.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to wish everyone, and especially everyone who has taken an interest in my case over the past year or so, a very happy New Year.
[35:41.270 --> 35:45.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and we want to thank the WBAI listeners for helping to get you released.
[35:45.490 --> 35:50.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: We really think a lot of the phone calls and a lot of the attention that was drawn by our listeners did a lot of good.
[35:51.190 --> 35:51.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: So do I.
[35:51.810 --> 35:54.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I owe everyone a debt of gratitude.
[35:55.430 --> 35:59.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: I may still be behind bars, were it not, for all their phone calls.
[36:00.110 --> 36:00.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[36:00.590 --> 36:02.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: You heard what happened with Kevin Mitnick.
[36:02.730 --> 36:04.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: I read that on the Internet just yesterday.
[36:20.670 --> 36:21.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[36:21.670 --> 36:28.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Given the stamp of approval by the prison mail censors, yet I was still punished for having materials that they approved as being okay.
[36:28.770 --> 36:29.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: So go figure.
[36:30.770 --> 36:31.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[36:31.370 --> 36:33.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a typical case of...
[36:33.210 --> 36:44.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: In those situations, the mismanagement is so rife that one person doesn't know what the other is doing, and everybody wants to be the boss, and as a result, you end up with these misunderstandings.
[36:45.070 --> 36:47.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, at least word is getting out.
[36:48.330 --> 36:49.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: At least...
[36:49.050 --> 36:50.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like a bit of a merrymaking.
[36:50.410 --> 36:51.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a New Year's Eve party here, yeah.
[36:51.770 --> 36:54.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, it is New Year's Eve, so I guess we could expect that.
[36:54.530 --> 36:55.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm calling from Philadelphia.
[36:56.190 --> 36:56.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[36:56.790 --> 37:02.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, now, you know, at least we have word getting out about Kevin in this particular case.
[37:02.490 --> 37:10.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't know as much about his case as we do about yours, but maybe this will be the first step towards getting more information and actually doing something to help.
[37:10.950 --> 37:15.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: Has anyone found out for certain whether he is being held in what's called the hole or not?
[37:16.030 --> 37:17.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if it's necessarily the hole.
[37:17.530 --> 37:18.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know it's solitary.
[37:18.290 --> 37:19.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: That has been confirmed.
[37:19.150 --> 37:19.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[37:19.390 --> 37:21.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not sure if solitary means necessarily the hole.
[37:21.970 --> 37:23.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I imagine it did in your place.
[37:23.290 --> 37:27.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's two ways of being in solitary.
[37:28.530 --> 37:30.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's the hole, which is where you're sent for punishment.
[37:30.610 --> 37:34.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a single cell, and you have very limited privileges.
[37:34.790 --> 37:37.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't go outside, et cetera, et cetera.
[37:38.230 --> 37:40.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: Only allowed out for a shower and very brief exercise.
[37:40.870 --> 37:41.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not outside, though.
[37:41.970 --> 37:43.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just in a concrete room.
[37:45.350 --> 37:48.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: No television, radio, reading materials, that sort of thing.
[37:48.210 --> 37:49.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if that's the situation he's in.
[37:49.550 --> 37:50.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope not.
[37:50.510 --> 37:56.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: The other situation is you can be put in just to a single cell by yourself for protection, but I never requested that.
[37:58.230 --> 38:02.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's generally reserved for people who don't get along with other prisoners, and I never had that problem.
[38:03.070 --> 38:05.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Fiber, you were in the hole, weren't you, when you first arrived?
[38:05.030 --> 38:10.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, where I was, the two things that Bernie Yess are describing were one and the same.
[38:11.030 --> 38:11.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello, Fiber.
[38:11.850 --> 38:12.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: The hole was the hole.
[38:13.150 --> 38:13.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[38:13.630 --> 38:13.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[38:14.150 --> 38:15.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: Solitary was the hole.
[38:15.110 --> 38:16.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was the same thing.
[38:16.970 --> 38:17.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
[38:18.450 --> 38:19.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's take some phone calls.
[38:21.350 --> 38:23.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
[38:23.810 --> 38:27.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: And on this New Year's Eve, let's see what people are up to, what 1996 has meant to you.
[38:28.530 --> 38:29.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: And good evening.
[38:29.290 --> 38:29.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[38:29.870 --> 38:30.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, what's up?
[38:30.410 --> 38:30.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is Gono.
[38:31.350 --> 38:31.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey.
[38:31.810 --> 38:32.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: How you doing?
[38:32.410 --> 38:32.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[38:33.490 --> 38:34.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Happy New Year, guys.
[38:34.510 --> 38:35.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Happy New Year.
[38:35.730 --> 38:38.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was talking to someone about, like, the Air Force site.
[38:38.250 --> 38:38.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[38:38.870 --> 38:44.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I noticed that the www.airforce.mail doesn't have a security administrator.
[38:44.610 --> 38:47.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have just, like, some guy that does the website.
[38:48.730 --> 38:53.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: And even though they were hacked, like, just the other day, their server is still...
[38:53.930 --> 38:58.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, someone told me that their server still has, like, all their default passwords.
[38:58.510 --> 39:01.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: There was no attempt, like, to secure the system in any way.
[39:02.310 --> 39:04.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, maybe I should tell you a little bit about the military.
[39:05.710 --> 39:15.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, I think, seeing as how there's a lot of press on this, maybe it's time to show them firsthand and say, look, they don't care, you know, and here's proof of it.
[39:15.830 --> 39:16.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, exactly.
[39:16.550 --> 39:25.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because I know the story has gotten their attention now, and maybe this can be shown as hackers doing something a little bit positive, saying, you know, there is no security.
[39:25.970 --> 39:26.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Look.
[39:26.090 --> 39:30.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: And since they're aware of the situation already, they just might actually listen to what we have to say.
[39:31.170 --> 39:38.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe you guys should, like, hold a press conference, like, and have the topic, like, breaching government security.
[39:39.350 --> 39:39.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[39:39.870 --> 39:41.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think that would be interesting.
[39:41.530 --> 39:44.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, or, you know, government security does not exist.
[39:45.030 --> 39:48.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: When you consider, this is the Air Force, these are the people that are supposed to be protecting us.
[39:48.630 --> 39:52.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if they can't protect their computers, how good a job are they doing at protecting other things?
[39:52.510 --> 39:52.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[39:53.150 --> 39:54.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah, I heard something else.
[39:54.710 --> 39:58.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Something about, uh, in the year 2000, like, all the computers are going to freak out and shit.
[39:59.450 --> 39:59.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
[40:00.050 --> 40:01.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Did you hear anything about that?
[40:01.250 --> 40:03.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: That I, I, I do not know.
[40:03.170 --> 40:06.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: I do not know, but we'll have to, we'll have to keep looking out for that.
[40:06.770 --> 40:07.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for calling.
[40:07.810 --> 40:08.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[40:08.390 --> 40:08.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[40:09.530 --> 40:10.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, Manuel, guys.
[40:10.910 --> 40:11.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
[40:11.610 --> 40:11.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's up?
[40:11.870 --> 40:12.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Happy New Year.
[40:12.530 --> 40:13.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Happy New Year to you.
[40:13.350 --> 40:14.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I think I know what that guy was talking about.
[40:15.210 --> 40:16.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, it's the double zero in the year 2000.
[40:17.010 --> 40:18.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but I think most of that has been fixed.
[40:18.870 --> 40:19.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[40:19.450 --> 40:19.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: No?
[40:20.030 --> 40:20.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: No?
[40:20.610 --> 40:21.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, come on.
[40:21.230 --> 40:22.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's only, it's only two years away now.
[40:23.190 --> 40:24.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, three years, whatever.
[40:24.670 --> 40:24.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to win.
[40:26.130 --> 40:27.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, I'm looking forward to that.
[40:27.650 --> 40:28.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking forward to that a lot.
[40:28.730 --> 40:29.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was just curious.
[40:29.510 --> 40:33.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is Bernie S going to counter sue or somehow file a suit against Pennsylvania?
[40:33.770 --> 40:35.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, there's, there's, can, can people hear me?
[40:36.150 --> 40:36.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, go ahead.
[40:36.670 --> 40:36.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[40:37.390 --> 40:39.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: A counter suit would imply that I had already been sued.
[40:39.850 --> 40:41.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hadn't, I haven't been sued.
[40:41.310 --> 40:45.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, uh, I have two lawyers, uh, a civil and a criminal lawyer looking into that.
[40:45.990 --> 40:52.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, those cases take an awful lot of time and, and resources.
[40:52.590 --> 40:53.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, the one lawyer...
[40:53.970 --> 40:55.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to have to turn down your radio, whoever has the radio up.
[40:56.010 --> 40:56.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm.
[40:56.430 --> 40:57.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm getting, we're getting feedback.
[40:58.330 --> 40:59.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: The one lawyer thinks there's a case.
[40:59.790 --> 41:00.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: The other one thinks there isn't a case.
[41:01.110 --> 41:03.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, I'm still pursuing it.
[41:03.690 --> 41:07.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but if there's going to be any end to it, it will be years.
[41:07.430 --> 41:08.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: The other problem is...
[41:10.430 --> 41:13.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just thinking about the whole situation is pretty traumatic for me.
[41:13.530 --> 41:16.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to, I don't want to have to devote any more emotional energy to the whole...
[41:16.830 --> 41:20.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, I mean, your civil liberties are brutalized virtually by...
[41:20.470 --> 41:20.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah.
[41:21.130 --> 41:29.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but it's, you know, it's just very exhausting devoting mental energy to the whole thing over again, just bringing it up again.
[41:29.970 --> 41:33.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope that fades with time so I could, I could work on it.
[41:33.850 --> 41:36.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: But right now, I just, it just, I just don't want to think about it.
[41:37.770 --> 41:38.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[41:39.210 --> 41:40.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, I totally understand that.
[41:40.850 --> 41:47.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: But hopefully there are people out there that, that do want to think about it and are willing to put some time and effort into this because I do think you have a good case.
[41:48.670 --> 41:59.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the, uh, the problem lies in, uh, uh, my being transferred from a, from a minimum security facility to a maximum security facility without cause.
[41:59.770 --> 42:05.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, as a punitive measure against my filing a grievance against the superintendent of the institution.
[42:05.230 --> 42:09.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: And for a disciplinary action as a result of a reporter sending me a fax.
[42:09.650 --> 42:09.830]  Mm-hmm.
[42:09.910 --> 42:24.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, there was just no, no cause for sending me to a, a violent maximum security facility when I was, uh, already eligible for parole and had no, no misconducts or nothing that involved, uh, violence at all.
[42:24.870 --> 42:30.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's, uh, like, like I said, one lawyer thinks there's a case, the other thinks that there is no case.
[42:30.970 --> 42:32.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, they're still talking.
[42:32.870 --> 42:33.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, no.
[42:34.750 --> 42:35.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, thanks for the call.
[42:35.870 --> 42:36.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[42:36.390 --> 42:36.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Happy New Year, guys.
[42:37.130 --> 42:37.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take care.
[42:37.350 --> 42:37.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks.
[42:37.670 --> 42:37.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: See ya.
[42:39.550 --> 42:40.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[42:40.330 --> 42:41.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[42:41.310 --> 42:41.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, hi.
[42:41.930 --> 42:43.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, uh, Happy New Year.
[42:43.570 --> 42:43.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: Happy New Year.
[42:44.150 --> 42:45.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I want to, um, you talked about crack.
[42:46.370 --> 42:49.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm a webmaster, the internet service provider in Massachusetts.
[42:50.130 --> 42:53.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, and, you know, this is the first time I've really ever heard about crack.
[42:53.330 --> 42:59.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, and I, I'd like to know, um, is there any place on, uh, a URL you can give me if I can get information about crack?
[43:00.370 --> 43:01.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, everywhere.
[43:01.630 --> 43:02.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, what, okay.
[43:03.130 --> 43:05.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: What you do is you do an AltaVista search.
[43:05.470 --> 43:07.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's probably the quickest way to get the information.
[43:07.670 --> 43:08.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know how to do that?
[43:08.470 --> 43:09.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, of course.
[43:09.390 --> 43:09.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: No problem.
[43:10.010 --> 43:13.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and that's, you know, look for maybe crack 5.0 or whatever.
[43:13.810 --> 43:15.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, crack space 5.0?
[43:15.890 --> 43:16.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, probably.
[43:16.590 --> 43:16.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: 5.1?
[43:16.990 --> 43:19.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, or just, uh, you know, any variation.
[43:19.330 --> 43:20.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you'll, you'll find all kinds of things.
[43:21.170 --> 43:21.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: Where's it coming from?
[43:22.090 --> 43:22.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: A U.K.?
[43:22.930 --> 43:25.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, that was, I was coming from the U.K., that particular version of it.
[43:25.470 --> 43:26.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess that's, that's where all of them came from.
[43:27.070 --> 43:29.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, like, the main, main homepage would be in the U.K.?
[43:29.770 --> 43:30.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Probably someplace, yeah.
[43:31.110 --> 43:32.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Probably someplace over there.
[43:32.070 --> 43:32.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be a good, a good clue.
[43:33.090 --> 43:34.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Although it might be mirrored someplace else.
[43:34.770 --> 43:35.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[43:35.550 --> 43:35.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right?
[43:36.030 --> 43:36.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[43:36.550 --> 43:37.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, take care.
[43:38.870 --> 43:39.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Austin, Texas.
[43:39.810 --> 43:40.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[43:40.150 --> 43:40.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[43:41.130 --> 43:41.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, hi.
[43:41.830 --> 43:44.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: I really thank you very much for taking my call.
[43:44.170 --> 43:44.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[43:44.710 --> 43:45.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: To Bernie S.
[43:46.090 --> 43:47.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have to thank you very much.
[43:47.850 --> 43:54.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think we spoke one time when you were inside that, uh, through you, I heard the name of Kenny Trujillo and I, um...
[43:54.110 --> 43:54.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, yes.
[43:54.490 --> 43:58.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: ...contacted somebody that was, um, there, and yesterday, as a matter of fact, was the position.
[43:59.430 --> 44:01.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: And the person did get one-third.
[44:02.190 --> 44:07.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: From our point of view, we really think it was unjustified that they're going to appeal it, but he's an incredibly good lawyer.
[44:07.990 --> 44:15.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: And if anything, I have to thank you that by listening to you, I heard his name and he was able to work for this guy.
[44:15.430 --> 44:22.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, uh, uh, Ken Trujillo thanked me for, uh, for, for that reference, he said.
[44:22.350 --> 44:23.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: I tell you, he's an incredible guy.
[44:24.150 --> 44:30.790]  [SPEAKER_19]: And if anybody's out there and meets him, that guy's in Philadelphia, what a fantastic mind and behavior.
[44:31.210 --> 44:32.690]  [SPEAKER_19]: What a, what a good lawyer.
[44:32.890 --> 44:34.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: God, there should be more of him.
[44:34.350 --> 44:39.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, here's a situation where, uh, Ken was a, is a former federal prosecutor.
[44:40.210 --> 44:40.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[44:41.230 --> 44:42.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if you're aware of that.
[44:42.610 --> 44:43.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
[44:43.310 --> 44:47.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: He served as a, as a lead prosecutor in the, uh, third, uh, U.S.
[44:48.130 --> 44:50.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: district court, a federal court in Philadelphia.
[44:50.690 --> 44:53.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, he established quite a name for himself.
[44:53.390 --> 44:56.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then, uh, he had a change of, uh, change of attitude.
[44:57.170 --> 45:04.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: He explained to me that he'd seen things the government was doing that he just, he just couldn't stomach, uh, participating in.
[45:04.410 --> 45:05.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he, uh, said he saw the light.
[45:06.330 --> 45:08.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, so now he's acting as a defense attorney.
[45:08.850 --> 45:15.970]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, and he's really good and conscientious and thoughtful and caring because I tell you in this family it was not a lot of money, you know?
[45:16.610 --> 45:26.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: But this kid got caught in stupidities and, of course, he's going to be, regrettably, he's going to spend actually really seven years of his life back, whatever the toll.
[45:27.010 --> 45:28.370]  [SPEAKER_19]: But he was looking at 30.
[45:29.450 --> 45:33.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: So it was, because the other lawyers that he had, that's what they were going to give him.
[45:34.010 --> 45:42.030]  [SPEAKER_19]: And oddly enough, I heard you say that, that you had lawyers that had not worked in for you, but you had changed lawyers and this guy, Kenny Trujillo from Philadelphia.
[45:42.430 --> 45:45.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: What is I, uh, probably meeting with, uh, with Ken next week.
[45:45.470 --> 45:45.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: What is your name?
[45:46.730 --> 45:47.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: Luz Garcia.
[45:47.630 --> 45:48.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Luz Garcia.
[45:48.150 --> 45:48.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'll mention that.
[45:48.890 --> 45:50.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I'm, I'm Pandora's grandmother.
[45:50.770 --> 45:51.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, I'll mention that.
[45:51.830 --> 45:53.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, and actually the guy...
[45:53.330 --> 45:56.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I'd wondered, I, I remember you calling in, um, Yeah.
[45:56.490 --> 45:56.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: earlier this year.
[45:56.990 --> 46:05.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, you were still inside and, and I said to you that, you know, I have heard and, and they had come up yesterday, like I tell you, and he really worked hard at it.
[46:05.710 --> 46:09.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: It was not an easy case, but I tell you the federal government is something else.
[46:09.490 --> 46:10.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's incredible.
[46:10.370 --> 46:13.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: No matter what, they just want you in for a long period of time.
[46:13.230 --> 46:21.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's very difficult to make other people understand how Yeah, and this guy really was a good productive person, you know, good productive person, good mind.
[46:21.290 --> 46:24.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, and he, the computer person, just like you guys.
[46:24.670 --> 46:26.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: I tell you, but it is, it is fearful.
[46:26.870 --> 46:32.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: It is fearsome what, the way, the attitude, and they come, and you know, they have all the tools.
[46:33.150 --> 46:33.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: They really do.
[46:33.910 --> 46:36.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: And people who are the other end have very little.
[46:37.010 --> 46:45.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm really glad that I heard about the most frustrating, one of the most frustrating things is trying to convince other people that the government really works this way.
[46:46.070 --> 46:46.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yes.
[46:46.230 --> 46:51.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you don't want to believe it because it's so dastardly, like it couldn't really be that bad.
[46:51.310 --> 46:52.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I, I was naive.
[46:52.430 --> 46:56.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was a pretty, I was a skeptical person and not pro-government before all this happened.
[46:56.470 --> 47:00.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we've all been trained by the same book learning.
[47:00.230 --> 47:04.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was very naive when I saw what the kind of stuff they pull.
[47:05.450 --> 47:09.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unless someone goes through an experience like where you're...
[47:09.030 --> 47:13.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, don't forget that we keep saying that this is the land of the brave and the home of the free.
[47:13.350 --> 47:15.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: So we won't pick a toast and we believe it.
[47:16.170 --> 47:26.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm glad, well, I'm, in one way, I'm upset that your friend has to do as much time as he will, but I guess it could have been a lot worse.
[47:26.690 --> 47:27.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it could have.
[47:27.670 --> 47:28.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you very much.
[47:28.810 --> 47:29.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Best of luck to you.
[47:29.650 --> 47:31.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks very much for listening and sharing that with us.
[47:31.770 --> 47:32.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, bye-bye.
[47:32.670 --> 47:32.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Take care.
[47:33.670 --> 47:37.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's really something that something like that came out of hearing you calling in from prison.
[47:38.150 --> 47:38.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[47:38.630 --> 47:43.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: It goes to show the effect that listeners have on each other at this place.
[47:43.030 --> 47:45.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, that's really something.
[47:46.390 --> 47:47.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, okay.
[47:47.390 --> 47:48.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's take another phone.
[47:48.090 --> 47:52.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just saying names of cities at random just to show people that we could do a national show if we ever did go national.
[47:52.970 --> 47:54.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we've got that part of it down.
[47:54.890 --> 47:55.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, watch this.
[47:56.550 --> 47:57.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Fairbanks, Alaska.
[47:57.370 --> 47:57.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[47:59.130 --> 48:00.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: See, I did that good, didn't I?
[48:00.250 --> 48:00.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[48:00.570 --> 48:00.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[48:02.490 --> 48:04.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, you're not on the air then.
[48:05.370 --> 48:06.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Stupid Alaskans.
[48:06.550 --> 48:06.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[48:07.050 --> 48:07.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[48:07.750 --> 48:08.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, how you doing?
[48:08.550 --> 48:08.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[48:09.230 --> 48:10.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, flying without a net.
[48:10.190 --> 48:10.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: No delay.
[48:11.210 --> 48:11.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:11.410 --> 48:22.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, I wanted to tell you it would be great if you guys could have a screener because it's tough fighting NYNEX with these lovely timeouts that they have.
[48:23.130 --> 48:23.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, that's true.
[48:24.170 --> 48:26.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: We would wind up putting everybody on hold then.
[48:26.150 --> 48:29.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'd wind up paying for the phone call but no guarantee that you'd get on the air.
[48:30.170 --> 48:31.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, but then you couldn't go national, that's right.
[48:32.450 --> 48:34.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because I never want to be playing long distance charges.
[48:34.590 --> 48:35.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true too, yeah.
[48:35.590 --> 48:35.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[48:35.970 --> 48:37.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'd have to get an 800 number.
[48:37.190 --> 48:37.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'd go broke.
[48:38.470 --> 48:38.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Terrific.
[48:39.310 --> 48:39.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, yes.
[48:40.030 --> 48:47.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't help but say that I think I speak for everyone when we say that wonderful turn of events although what precipitated it obviously wasn't what you expected.
[48:48.110 --> 48:52.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was a big blessing but I'm thankful that it worked out in my getting out at least.
[48:52.870 --> 48:53.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Terrific.
[48:53.830 --> 48:58.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: The only other thing is NYNEX just keeps rolling along with this ISDN deal.
[48:58.530 --> 49:03.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, if you want call offering and all these other nice packages you have to pay a lot of money.
[49:03.870 --> 49:05.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to pay business rates.
[49:05.250 --> 49:07.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't they understand that people...
[49:07.070 --> 49:07.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's not true at all.
[49:07.690 --> 49:08.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's not true?
[49:08.450 --> 49:09.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, that's not true in the least.
[49:09.830 --> 49:12.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: I've had all those features for quite some time.
[49:12.230 --> 49:14.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well how much does it cost you to sign up for it?
[49:15.810 --> 49:18.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: But it cost me about $2.50 a month.
[49:18.450 --> 49:18.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[49:19.070 --> 49:28.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I can't complain either but let's say I was I guess a little delinquent in it and so far as I asked NYNEX to say well you know I want an additional call offering.
[49:28.790 --> 49:31.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I said alright I'll give it to you for $16 installation.
[49:31.870 --> 49:35.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: I said alright next time I called I want a three-way calling.
[49:35.310 --> 49:36.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: They said that would be $30 more.
[49:36.950 --> 49:38.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, that's not true.
[49:38.410 --> 49:38.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah.
[49:39.210 --> 49:39.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know what?
[49:39.870 --> 49:46.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: No one knew what the tariffs were and I had to call in Boston because the only person who knew about it was in Boston who knew about the Northeastern region.
[49:46.630 --> 50:00.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if they've changed it recently but they said that if I wanted the call offering call waiting and three-way calling excuse me call offering which is call waiting three-way calling and the other one was call forwarding that I wanted to ask about.
[50:00.370 --> 50:03.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: They said it would cost me a whopping $72 for installation.
[50:03.630 --> 50:10.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: It would only cost me $2 per say each feature each month but it would cost me a whopping $72 to install all three of them at the same time.
[50:10.030 --> 50:11.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: That sounds like a scam.
[50:12.590 --> 50:23.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: If that is true what I would do is call again totally you know somebody else and see if you get the same numbers if you get even the slightest variation and you know they don't know what they're talking about Who are you talking to at NYNEX?
[50:24.290 --> 50:27.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't remember her name Carol somebody I don't think we mean who?
[50:27.830 --> 50:29.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what office are you talking to?
[50:29.350 --> 50:44.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, no, this is the ISDN office She was very nice and she was apologizing profusely about how horribly incompetent most of the people were regarding ISDN She looked like she knew what she was talking about She said these are the tariff rates in New York State The only thing is did you have to pay $16 outright for your call offer?
[50:45.230 --> 51:04.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: I had a one-time installation fee Yeah, $16 Yeah, right but that's true of most any I understand but I don't understand why if I wanted two additional features that each cost $30 each which I don't understand I didn't pay any of those No, that's not standard for NYNEX on any type of service They charge you a $16 installation fee and you can get more than one thing for that $16 Well,
[51:04.530 --> 51:18.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: listen the other thing is that I mean, they're in the business for selling these things and they're not going to sell any of them if they have outrageous rates Oh, I understand Well, jeez tell them about it Look, you know what the funny thing is when I first got it installed they charged me double for every single item in other words a premises which no one did they just switched it from the
[51:18.410 --> 51:32.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: central office and they still charged me labor for a premises visit jacked testing It was like 500 bucks and they finally whittled it down to 140 but it was ridiculous dealing with these guys as you obviously know all of you guys All right, good luck Thanks,
[51:32.430 --> 51:49.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: bye Keep trying It's 9 minutes to 9 o'clock You know, it's not quite New Year's yet You know, we still have over 3 hours but and it's in England and France and places like that it already is New Year's You know, it's already happened but what I'd like to know is where in the world is it going to be New Year's at 9 o'clock?
[51:50.690 --> 51:52.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: What time zone is that?
[51:52.350 --> 51:59.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Down the ocean It would be in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean There is nobody there Well, there must be some place Is that where the Galapagos Islands are?
[51:59.630 --> 52:01.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, what about what's that place?
[52:01.290 --> 52:07.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Iceland No, I was just in I was just in Iceland and they go by European time Oh, really?
[52:07.590 --> 52:12.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah Greenland Greenland, maybe Okay, how about what's that place?
[52:13.190 --> 52:18.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: North Scotia Bermuda, that's it Bermuda No, they're in the same they're in Eastern They are?
[52:18.290 --> 52:28.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: It would be free They're off the coast of North Carolina It would be three-fifths They're way off the coast of North Carolina They're like in the middle of the ocean Oh, they're not quite that far Wherever it is it would have to be three-fifths of the way to Greenwich,
[52:29.030 --> 52:34.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: England Okay Well, Bernie you seem to know things like this Well, they're five hours ahead of us Is that right?
[52:34.750 --> 52:49.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah Yeah Right now they are So, they'd have to be three-fifths of the way there to be hitting midnight in a few minutes Well, hang on I'm going to take a liberty here and Do you have a map?
[52:49.630 --> 52:53.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to ask for an operator I'll go even one better than that And do we have a dial tone?
[52:54.210 --> 53:06.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, we don't have a dial tone Let's try this line over here Okay And we're going to try and get I guess AT&T would know this, wouldn't they?
[53:07.730 --> 53:24.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I guess We're going to start with NYNEX though I'm telling you the eastern the easternmost time zone is Atlantic Uh-huh And that's like Nova Scotia Yeah, I know but there's still places between here and England that have to be different time zones There's islands There's islands,
[53:24.870 --> 53:29.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: yeah Islands have to I think they Go back to you Yes, hi Can I have long distance, please?
[53:30.090 --> 53:59.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure Thank you very much I vote the Galapagos Islands Well, I'm not even going to say that That's west MCI MCI Enter the number you want to call Area code first For operator assistance Press zero now Or stay on the line I'm sorry It's nothing against MCI But every time I've talked to them I've gotten angry So let's call It's that 1-800-CALL-ATT thing Right Which is sort of like talking to an AT&T
[53:59.050 --> 54:07.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: operator In fact AT&T There you go To place a calling card Press zero AT&T How may I help you?
[54:07.390 --> 54:11.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, hi I need to know the time in Bermuda, please Well done Thank you very much
[54:14.500 --> 54:17.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not far enough What, you checked?
[54:17.440 --> 54:20.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm I know Too close Yeah Really?
[54:20.460 --> 54:25.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm Why don't you ask her the question You have Where is it midnight?
[54:26.220 --> 54:32.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think they're going to know that Well, she can look it up How would they look that up?
[54:33.960 --> 54:38.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not It's not Here's some social engineering, Emmanuel It's not I can't now, can I?
[54:40.140 --> 54:42.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not done by It's not It's alphabetical, right?
[54:42.740 --> 54:59.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not done by time We only have six minutes to go Time is 9.54pm Oh, 9.54 You're not able to tell, are you, what Where a particular time zone is Like where would be, say, 11.55 now?
[55:00.080 --> 55:02.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: No You can't tell by that, can you?
[55:02.360 --> 55:05.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: No Can you also tell me the time in Greenland?
[55:07.020 --> 55:07.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: The country?
[55:08.140 --> 55:26.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, the country I thought maybe it was a Greenland Somewhere in the United States Well, I wouldn't be surprised It probably is There's a Paris in Texas, after all There's a Rome, New York It's full of nuclear missiles Okay, the time there is 10.54pm Okay,
[55:26.980 --> 55:36.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: we're getting closer All right, well, thanks very much for your help You're welcome Take care Here's relatively help Okay, we have the phone book All right, we have the phone book We've gone, we're playing hardball now How about Iceland?
[55:36.880 --> 55:47.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Iceland is on Greenwich time I don't understand that Because they're adjacent to each other But I don't think there's anything in between There's got to be islands I don't see any plus threes How about down in the south?
[55:47.400 --> 55:49.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: What about those Malvina islands?
[55:49.820 --> 55:55.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, the Falklands Where the war took place Oh, yeah Those are plus one and plus two You checked?
[55:55.800 --> 56:02.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like Venezuela is plus one Yeah, I'm looking at them Venezuela is on the other side of South America Suriname is plus two Okay, what are the Falkland Islands?
[56:04.160 --> 56:07.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Falkland Islands are right next to Argentina Yeah, but I know that But are they in that book there?
[56:07.800 --> 56:14.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, no Okay, I think It's probably the same time zone as Argentina Probably, but maybe not for sure We're going to get the operator again
[56:18.300 --> 56:23.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're running out of time So we've got to hurry AT&T To place a call Yeah, get the operator back
[56:26.930 --> 56:27.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Four minutes to go
[56:31.630 --> 56:34.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: There'll be a boat someplace AT&T, how may I help you?
[56:34.830 --> 56:37.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, hi I need to know the time right now In the Falkland Islands
[56:41.090 --> 56:42.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much
[56:49.860 --> 56:52.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay, it's approximately 9.56 p.m.
[56:52.860 --> 57:02.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, thank you very much You're welcome I told you, you didn't listen So there's no place where it's about to strike midnight That's what you tell you On the whole planet There's no place I always thought there was a place Where it was a certain time,
[57:02.980 --> 57:15.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: you know Like in Iran, it's like a half hour's difference And a half, you know Well, if you want to be really technical I could go stand in the other corner of the room And it's a different time But we don't have that degree of granularity Alright, let's just hope there's like a You know,
[57:15.620 --> 57:23.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: a barge or something out there In the middle of the ocean And we're celebrating New Year's now And we can sort of say, you know Hey, Happy New Year to them as well Ha!
[57:24.980 --> 57:41.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wee Okay, well, Bernie Thanks very much for calling us Thank you Yeah, we're going to go out now And have fun, I guess I don't know Whatever people do on nights like this And let's hope 1997 is a whole lot better For all of us What are your plans?
[57:42.120 --> 57:58.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to have a safe and productive year And avoid any appearance of impropriety Yes, that's a good idea That's a good idea I think I might do the same Alright, well, have a Happy New Year And best of luck to you We'll be talking to you again real soon Okay Alright,
[57:58.120 --> 58:14.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: take care Happy New Year, everybody So long That's Bernie S Coming to us live from Philadelphia And Feinberg, well I guess you're running away with that crazy phone of yours Have a Happy New Year yourself And we'll be back again next week For our first show of 1997 Until then,
[58:14.160 --> 58:21.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: have yourselves a Happy New Year Or whatever kind of new year you want to have Our housing notebook is up next This is Emmanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook Good night
[58:28.010 --> 58:41.670]  [SPEAKER_25]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make the cost It couldn't get much worse I
[58:47.190 --> 58:49.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: hope that's understood But I'm making it more
[59:22.990 --> 59:31.450]  [SPEAKER_26]: The future Just keeps coming at you And what are your final thoughts As the season comes to an end for us?
[59:31.450 --> 59:56.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, the thing I feel badly about is that It went too quickly I don't even remember going down I don't even remember the fight I got no more words to describe the way I'm feeling right now The bad thing has been a little weird Something like The media started calling me a hero And then Probably the third round on I don't even remember the fight It's kind of overwhelming It's almost like I get
[59:56.010 --> 01:00:00.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: more excited When I reflect back on Everything that's happened in a very short period of time
[01:00:10.030 --> 01:00:28.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: Tune in New Year's Eve at 11 For a shortcut Through 1996 Cool for every year Here on listener-sponsored WBAI 99.5 FM In New York Everybody's here This is the gem of the year This is the gem of the year
[01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:41.040]  [SPEAKER_28]: It is 9 o'clock in the evening And you are tuned to listener-sponsored WBAI-FM In New York City Coming up now is Housing Notebook
[01:00:51.260 --> 01:00:54.640]  [SPEAKER_30]: Paint peeling off the wall.
[01:00:55.160 --> 01:00:58.360]  [SPEAKER_30]: Dirt piling in the hall.
[01:00:58.820 --> 01:01:02.240]  [SPEAKER_30]: Ice on the pipes, but no steam at all.
[01:01:03.080 --> 01:01:10.140]  [SPEAKER_30]: Landlord, landlord, low-down, rotten, good for nothing.
[01:01:18.170 --> 01:01:21.390]  [SPEAKER_30]: Gonna raise your rent someday.
[01:01:22.110 --> 01:01:25.190]  [SPEAKER_30]: Kick you out if you can't pay.
[01:01:25.690 --> 01:01:29.050]  [SPEAKER_30]: You and the goddamn O.P.A.
[01:01:30.110 --> 01:01:37.110]  [SPEAKER_30]: Landlord, landlord, low-down, rotten, good for nothing.
[01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:48.600]  [SPEAKER_30]: He's against public housing.
[01:01:48.860 --> 01:01:52.320]  [SPEAKER_30]: Can't stand the fuss we're rousing.
[01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:56.220]  [SPEAKER_30]: We'll take care of him later.
[01:01:57.420 --> 01:02:00.280]  [SPEAKER_30]: With a rat exterminator.
[01:02:00.620 --> 01:02:01.900]  [SPEAKER_30]: Pay him a bonus.
[01:02:01.900 --> 01:02:03.800]  [SPEAKER_30]: Give him grease.
[01:02:04.580 --> 01:02:07.520]  [SPEAKER_30]: For the right to sign a lease.
[01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:11.420]  [SPEAKER_30]: You can have dogs, but kids must see.