Off The Hook - 1997-01-14

[00:01.970 --> 00:02.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: ...advertising.
[00:02.950 --> 00:06.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: McDonald's spends $800 million advertising their burgers, etc.
[00:07.470 --> 00:13.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the federal government spends about a million saying the stuff that Dr. Barnard has been talking about.
[00:13.330 --> 00:15.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: So you'll have to do a lot of this on your own, folks.
[00:15.510 --> 00:17.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Barbara Fisher, thank you very much for engineering.
[00:17.650 --> 00:21.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Tom Whelan, thank you for producing and all of you for listening out there.
[00:21.610 --> 00:22.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll be with you tomorrow.
[00:22.750 --> 00:23.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good night.
[00:43.320 --> 00:55.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Coalition to Free Mumia Abu-Jamal invites you to an evening of jazz and poetry for Mumia on Monday, January 20th, at Aaron Davis Hall, 135th Street and Convent Avenue on the City College campus.
[00:56.280 --> 01:09.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thrilled to the sultry sounds of songstress Cassandra Wilson, Jose Felipiano's Worcestra includes poets Amina and Amiri Baraka, Sonia Sanchez, Sandra Maria Estevez, and many, many more.
[01:09.150 --> 01:16.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: All proceeds go towards the legal appeal of Mumia Abu-Jamal, still on death row, with no justice in sight.
[01:16.340 --> 01:21.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's Monday, January 20th, Aaron Davis Hall, 7.30 p.m.
[01:21.820 --> 01:32.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Tickets available through Ticketmaster, 212-307-7171 or call the Coalition at 212-465-3109.
[01:32.660 --> 01:33.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's 1997.
[01:34.560 --> 01:36.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Time to free Mumia.
[01:40.640 --> 01:47.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right now on WBAI in New York, it's time for a historical edition of Off the Hook.
[01:53.060 --> 01:57.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:58.300 --> 02:02.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[02:03.620 --> 02:05.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: It couldn't get much worse.
[02:11.920 --> 02:14.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's understood, but make me move!
[02:37.560 --> 02:39.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And a special good evening to everyone.
[02:40.940 --> 02:55.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is Off the Hook, the program that comes to you every week at this time, talking about high technology, computer hackers, telephones, and all the fun things that happen with technology in ours and other people's lives.
[02:55.660 --> 03:00.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: And something rather interesting is happening with us tonight here on this radio program.
[03:00.320 --> 03:03.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're broadcasting around the world.
[03:03.800 --> 03:09.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Not just to the small area of New York City, Connecticut, New Jersey, Long Island, all that kind of thing.
[03:09.800 --> 03:11.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, we're going all over the place.
[03:12.240 --> 03:16.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: On the phone with us right now is Manos, the technician, who has set all this up.
[03:17.020 --> 03:17.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh...
[03:17.680 --> 03:19.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Manos, are you with us?
[03:19.280 --> 03:20.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I am.
[03:20.040 --> 03:21.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, how are things going?
[03:21.320 --> 03:22.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is everything, uh, set up?
[03:22.860 --> 03:23.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: So far, so good.
[03:23.940 --> 03:26.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: We just started, uh, so...
[03:26.580 --> 03:28.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: So far, everything is fine.
[03:28.600 --> 03:32.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, those of you who are listening from all different parts of the world, uh, uh, continue listening.
[03:32.880 --> 03:34.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's what you, that's what you should do at this point.
[03:34.720 --> 03:36.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can call us up and tell us where you're calling from.
[03:37.340 --> 03:40.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, I guess we'll just, we'll, we'll pretend this is a normal show.
[03:41.200 --> 03:43.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that nobody gets too confused.
[03:43.960 --> 03:46.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, how, how many people can listen at once, Manos?
[03:46.480 --> 03:47.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, up to 40 people.
[03:48.000 --> 03:48.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: 40 people, okay.
[03:48.920 --> 03:55.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, it doesn't sound like very much, but when you consider that these are 40 people that ordinarily would not have been able to listen to the show at all, uh, it is something.
[03:55.760 --> 03:58.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: And when you consider what the bandwidth constraints of the Internet are, uh...
[03:58.960 --> 04:02.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hopefully, if everything goes well today, we'll go for, to more than 40 people.
[04:02.760 --> 04:03.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[04:03.300 --> 04:03.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who knows?
[04:03.640 --> 04:05.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: We can go for 40,000 people someday.
[04:05.600 --> 04:09.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, uh, it's all new technology that we're playing with here, so let's see how it works out.
[04:10.180 --> 04:15.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, thanks very much for the help, and, uh, if there's any, any, uh, problems or anything, well, you know how to get a hold of us.
[04:15.400 --> 04:15.660]  Sure.
[04:15.900 --> 04:16.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[04:16.160 --> 04:16.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[04:16.760 --> 04:22.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, we have a couple of really, uh, interesting and fun things that have been going on.
[04:22.860 --> 04:28.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Probably the most fun has been this, uh, this whole cellular phone call business, uh, coming from Florida.
[04:28.640 --> 04:37.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how many people saw the New York Times today, but this, uh, this was a full-page ad in the New York Times from our friends over at Omnipoint.
[04:37.580 --> 04:39.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Fiber, you, you're very familiar with Omnipoint, right?
[04:39.820 --> 04:41.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, I'm a very satisfied customer.
[04:41.420 --> 04:41.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[04:41.760 --> 04:48.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we've had some, some funny, uh, um, happenings with them over the past few weeks, but I think it's getting better.
[04:48.340 --> 04:48.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[04:48.540 --> 04:50.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Last week, we had you coming up from, uh, from downtown.
[04:50.760 --> 04:58.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: The week before that, we were trying unsuccessfully to call you on an Omnipoint phone, but, I don't know, I guess, I guess they're starting to get a little bit bigger.
[04:58.860 --> 04:59.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, full-page ad.
[04:59.940 --> 05:02.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: This must have, this must have cost me a pretty penny.
[05:02.040 --> 05:03.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Full-page ad in the New York Times.
[05:03.480 --> 05:04.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's a lot.
[05:04.900 --> 05:15.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Dear Mr. Speaker, if you'd rather not have your phone conversation overheard and printed word-for-word in the newspaper, next time, use an Omnipoint wireless phone instead of a cellular phone.
[05:15.740 --> 05:18.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's just really rubbing salt into the wound, isn't it?
[05:18.680 --> 05:18.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[05:19.340 --> 05:24.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: What you say on a traditional cellular phone is strictly between you, the person you're talking to, and whoever might be listening in.
[05:24.960 --> 05:31.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: It happens to lawyers, bankers, brokers, CFOs, CEOs, and everyone in between, not just people in Buckingham Palace or in Capitol Hill.
[05:31.380 --> 05:39.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, in the interest of privacy, confidentiality, and security, we'd like to tell the world about Omnipoint, a new 100% digital wireless phone system, blah, blah, blah.
[05:40.720 --> 05:46.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess what they say is true as far as security, but is it the only secure way of making a cellular phone call?
[05:46.880 --> 05:48.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: The only secure way?
[05:48.300 --> 05:49.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's the easiest way to.
[05:49.840 --> 05:52.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: But there's digital cellular that already exists.
[05:53.140 --> 05:54.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, no, that's not the same.
[05:54.360 --> 06:01.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: There is no encryption at all in the current digital cellular that uses the DAMP system.
[06:01.820 --> 06:02.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[06:02.260 --> 06:08.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there's something that they sort of refer to as encryption, but it's not really much of any encryption at all.
[06:10.040 --> 06:18.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: The GSM technology that Omnipoint uses, and the same technology that's being used in Europe and parts of Asia for...
[06:18.020 --> 06:19.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Other, more advanced parts of the world.
[06:19.700 --> 06:21.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, the other more advanced parts of the world.
[06:21.820 --> 06:22.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi there, Europe and Asia.
[06:22.900 --> 06:23.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[06:23.180 --> 06:23.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Glad to have you with us.
[06:23.880 --> 06:28.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, that GSM technology actually uses, uh, real data encryption.
[06:28.960 --> 06:31.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: It uses an encryption algorithm known as A5.
[06:31.480 --> 06:31.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[06:31.900 --> 06:38.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, it's not some simple, silly little exclusive or kind of thing like they do in digital cellular.
[06:38.880 --> 06:41.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, it's actually full-fledged protection.
[06:41.920 --> 06:58.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, of course, the, um, while it, while a certain degree it's left to the discretion of the, uh, carrier, like, say, Omnipointer or, um, whoever else, um, it, it's certainly, uh, a farsight better than, than, uh, anything that's being done right now to,
[06:58.800 --> 07:01.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: uh, protect the privacy of your, uh, wireless communications.
[07:02.000 --> 07:03.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, now, let's, let's get the story straight.
[07:04.100 --> 07:09.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, some, some nice elderly people down in Florida just happened to be listening in...
[07:09.680 --> 07:09.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[07:10.100 --> 07:14.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: ...to a cellular phone call by none other than Newt Gingrich.
[07:14.280 --> 07:22.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they, they just happened to be active Democrats that were listening in on this and brought it to their Congress person, who then released it to the press and denied that he did that.
[07:22.660 --> 07:22.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[07:22.980 --> 07:24.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, is that the story as far as I understand?
[07:25.020 --> 07:38.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, in fact, uh, right here in the middle of the story, it says, it all seems unlikely that this unassuming couple from Northern Florida, who just happen to be politically active Democrats, would eavesdrop on a high-level, questionably appropriate Republican conversation and tell about it.
[07:38.320 --> 07:40.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that is exactly what happened, Mr. Turner said.
[07:41.200 --> 07:41.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Aha.
[07:42.840 --> 07:43.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Who's saying it's unlikely?
[07:43.920 --> 07:44.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that the reporter saying that?
[07:44.980 --> 07:46.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or is that the just common sense, or what?
[07:46.680 --> 07:49.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Mr. Turner is, Larry Turner is the couple's lawyer.
[07:49.920 --> 07:50.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: I see.
[07:50.840 --> 07:53.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: So the couple's lawyer is saying, it's all unlikely, but believe us anyway.
[07:53.740 --> 07:55.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, believe, believe it or not, that's what happened.
[07:55.500 --> 08:06.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is interesting because this is the first, it comes from a really strange place, but it's, it's the first real test of the bizarre law that makes it illegal to listen in on a public radio frequency to someone having a phone call.
[08:06.120 --> 08:07.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Gingrich should have known better.
[08:08.100 --> 08:17.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's got some technological skill, I take it, because, you know, he knows some things about the Internet, but he doesn't know that when he talks on this, a regular cellular phone, he's broadcasting whatever he's saying all over the place.
[08:17.820 --> 08:17.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[08:18.100 --> 08:20.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, was it him that was on the phone?
[08:20.500 --> 08:21.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was not him.
[08:21.420 --> 08:22.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it was somebody else.
[08:22.200 --> 08:22.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[08:22.560 --> 08:23.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, the article says it was him.
[08:23.960 --> 08:25.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, but he was calling somebody.
[08:25.480 --> 08:26.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he was calling it, yeah.
[08:26.660 --> 08:27.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: What would he be doing in Florida?
[08:28.360 --> 08:30.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't make any sense, unless that's something else he's up to.
[08:30.620 --> 08:41.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, and well, I think that, well, I don't know if they were necessarily clear that he was the one using the cell phone in Florida, or maybe he was calling people in Florida who have a cell phone.
[08:41.980 --> 08:42.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's probably what happened.
[08:42.740 --> 08:45.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they heard him on a land line talking to someone on a cell phone.
[08:45.540 --> 08:50.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's hard to protect yourself against other, you know, idiots that you're talking to who walk around with cellular phones.
[08:50.900 --> 08:51.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[08:51.360 --> 08:53.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, unencrypted and all that kind of thing.
[08:53.460 --> 08:53.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[08:53.560 --> 08:56.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I guess it wasn't his fault, he just sort of got trapped into this thing.
[08:56.740 --> 08:59.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's the first real test of this crazy law.
[09:00.020 --> 09:01.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Are they going to prosecute these people?
[09:01.380 --> 09:02.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Are they going to send them to prison?
[09:02.500 --> 09:02.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[09:02.600 --> 09:03.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you know?
[09:03.260 --> 09:04.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it doesn't sound like it from the article.
[09:05.420 --> 09:12.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because they technically, according to all the Republicans out there, they violated the federal wiretap law, which technically they did.
[09:12.680 --> 09:18.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's illegal to turn on your radio and tune to 800 megahertz and listen to cellular phone calls.
[09:19.020 --> 09:23.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, then they're setting themselves up because the way the article closes, it says that it's a hobby for them.
[09:23.720 --> 09:28.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they pick up all kinds of transmissions and bought a newer, more powerful unit over Christmas.
[09:28.500 --> 09:28.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[09:28.960 --> 09:33.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: And when they asked the husband what the range was, he said, to the horizon.
[09:33.820 --> 09:35.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's actually not a very big range.
[09:35.760 --> 09:40.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'd like to get things beyond the horizon, but I guess that's just a term.
[09:40.660 --> 09:42.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't see them... I mean, this is great.
[09:43.260 --> 09:45.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: They can't put these people away.
[09:45.760 --> 09:50.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they can't lock up a middle-aged, elderly, whatever couple for listening to the radio.
[09:50.900 --> 09:52.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's the best test I could think of.
[09:52.280 --> 09:54.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: They'd throw away hackers without any hesitation.
[09:55.180 --> 09:59.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, not many people would feel any kind of, I don't know, sympathy for that.
[10:00.020 --> 10:02.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: But these people, this is great.
[10:02.240 --> 10:04.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's finally a test of how ridiculous the law is.
[10:04.880 --> 10:06.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but these are sickeningly nice people.
[10:07.160 --> 10:07.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they are.
[10:07.420 --> 10:09.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: The guy claims that it was his civic duty to tell people.
[10:10.900 --> 10:12.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well... Where do they find these people?
[10:12.520 --> 10:13.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[10:13.200 --> 10:13.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[10:13.620 --> 10:16.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: But if they hadn't told anybody, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
[10:16.520 --> 10:16.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[10:17.040 --> 10:19.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: And Omnipoint wouldn't have a full-page ad.
[10:19.240 --> 10:20.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[10:20.140 --> 10:23.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: And your rates are going to go up because, you know, that full-page ad is going to cost them a lot of money.
[10:23.480 --> 10:26.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, if anything, we should get more subscribers and the rates would go down.
[10:26.780 --> 10:27.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the thought.
[10:27.860 --> 10:28.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the theory.
[10:28.680 --> 10:30.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, is it going to work that way?
[10:30.460 --> 10:31.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, what about this beeper thing?
[10:31.700 --> 10:32.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: You hear about this?
[10:32.360 --> 10:32.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: The beeper thing.
[10:33.080 --> 10:44.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: 100,000 pager users on the Skytel network were hit with a nonstop barrage of beeps and wrong numbers for about a half hour last Thursday because of a coding error.
[10:44.580 --> 10:44.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[10:45.060 --> 10:46.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's according to the company.
[10:47.000 --> 10:51.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: About 100,000 of their 1.5 million users were affected.
[10:52.160 --> 10:53.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is the interesting part.
[10:53.840 --> 11:02.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: They said a new customer was mistakenly given a code used by Skytel to send news headlines as a personal PIN number.
[11:02.720 --> 11:08.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: When that PIN number was activated, it went to all the customers of the headline service, triggering beeps and messages across the country.
[11:09.220 --> 11:15.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Then, customers began phoning the numbers on their pager screens, thus reactivating the PIN number and generating even more messages.
[11:16.040 --> 11:22.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: The PIN number was taken offline, but when engineers tried to restore the headline service, more erroneous messages were broadcast for about five minutes.
[11:22.620 --> 11:24.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is the first time anything like this has ever happened.
[11:24.860 --> 11:26.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's up with this PIN number?
[11:26.420 --> 11:32.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's all it is when they broadcast these headline news services is a PIN number that anybody could be assigned?
[11:32.180 --> 11:37.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that all depends on how... I'm assuming it's an alphanumeric paging service, obviously, if they get news.
[11:37.960 --> 11:38.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[11:38.220 --> 11:39.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: But yeah, I guess it is.
[11:40.300 --> 11:41.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what it sounds like.
[11:41.540 --> 11:48.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, what could somebody do with this knowledge as far as being able to, say, transmit something with a forged PIN?
[11:48.920 --> 11:59.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, if a phone number was assigned to one of these broadcast PINs, as it was in this case, then you'd be able to send pages to everybody that subscribes to that service.
[12:00.100 --> 12:01.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: That would be something, wouldn't it?
[12:01.500 --> 12:01.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[12:01.920 --> 12:04.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you were into shady marketing or something.
[12:05.400 --> 12:05.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[12:05.700 --> 12:07.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Certainly get the message across really quick.
[12:07.460 --> 12:08.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'd say so.
[12:08.760 --> 12:09.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.
[12:09.860 --> 12:10.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[12:10.160 --> 12:12.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's move on.
[12:12.540 --> 12:19.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I have a really funny thing here that I like to read, but let's see if anybody is out there from the Internet first.
[12:20.160 --> 12:20.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[12:20.740 --> 12:23.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Phone number for radio listeners, 212-279-3400.
[12:23.820 --> 12:26.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Those of you on the net, you already have a number to call.
[12:26.760 --> 12:29.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: And give us a phone call, see who's out there.
[12:30.300 --> 12:32.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: And see what our range is today.
[12:33.400 --> 12:39.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have, and remember, if you're calling from some crazy place, you know, some other country or something like that, it's not going to cost that much.
[12:39.300 --> 12:41.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: We don't pick up the phone until we put you on the air.
[12:41.300 --> 12:44.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, if you just want to say hello from, you know, Albania or something, that's fine.
[12:45.060 --> 12:49.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's only going to cost you, you know, a week's salary or something, but it'll be worth it, right?
[12:49.640 --> 12:50.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
[12:51.140 --> 12:51.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[12:51.480 --> 12:53.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see who's out there.
[12:55.620 --> 12:56.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[12:56.560 --> 12:57.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[12:58.000 --> 12:58.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bend, Oregon.
[12:59.400 --> 13:00.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Bend, Oregon.
[13:00.620 --> 13:00.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yep.
[13:01.300 --> 13:03.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you're listening to us live on the web.
[13:03.680 --> 13:04.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that right?
[13:04.180 --> 13:04.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'd like to be.
[13:06.420 --> 13:07.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: It isn't quite working right.
[13:07.800 --> 13:08.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: It isn't working right.
[13:08.660 --> 13:09.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us what's happening.
[13:09.720 --> 13:10.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do I hear my voice in echo?
[13:11.760 --> 13:12.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: It might be my phone.
[13:12.980 --> 13:13.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[13:13.340 --> 13:15.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's kind of... Are you really in Oregon?
[13:15.500 --> 13:15.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[13:15.820 --> 13:16.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You are?
[13:16.640 --> 13:16.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[13:17.280 --> 13:18.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Then how did you... Okay.
[13:18.660 --> 13:19.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Explain what's going on.
[13:19.680 --> 13:20.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is the problem?
[13:20.960 --> 13:21.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[13:21.180 --> 13:29.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, when I click on the link on TKI's homepage, it will bring up the real audio player, and it says connecting to host Phobos.
[13:29.960 --> 13:30.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[13:30.700 --> 13:33.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then it times out saying that it isn't a valid host.
[13:33.660 --> 13:33.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[13:34.480 --> 13:36.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but it doesn't give the fully qualified name.
[13:37.080 --> 13:37.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: It just says Phobos.
[13:37.940 --> 13:40.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: It doesn't say phobos.tki.net.
[13:40.220 --> 13:40.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[13:40.540 --> 13:45.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I suggest you keep trying because undoubtedly the people that are running this will hear this.
[13:45.780 --> 13:47.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: and are scrambling about to fix it, hopefully.
[13:48.120 --> 13:48.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Manos the technician.
[13:49.160 --> 13:49.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[13:49.440 --> 13:52.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Manos the technician is probably analyzing this problem even as we speak.
[13:53.220 --> 13:53.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[13:53.420 --> 13:53.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Great.
[13:53.840 --> 13:55.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll check in with him and see what's going on.
[13:55.760 --> 13:55.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[13:55.920 --> 13:57.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you have a West Coast broadcast?
[13:58.600 --> 13:59.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Not as of yet.
[13:59.800 --> 14:00.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: This would be it.
[14:01.140 --> 14:01.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[14:02.180 --> 14:03.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anything outside New York.
[14:03.720 --> 14:04.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[14:04.460 --> 14:04.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[14:05.000 --> 14:05.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, have a good evening.
[14:05.780 --> 14:06.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: You too.
[14:06.320 --> 14:06.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[14:06.640 --> 14:06.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bye.
[14:06.940 --> 14:09.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: I still don't know why my voice was echoing like that.
[14:09.700 --> 14:12.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it can't... Yeah, I guess it could be his phone, right?
[14:12.580 --> 14:13.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose.
[14:13.580 --> 14:13.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[14:14.620 --> 14:14.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[14:15.020 --> 14:18.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's hope that gets fixed pretty soon.
[14:18.860 --> 14:23.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here's something that I think you'll find interesting.
[14:24.260 --> 14:24.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's that?
[14:24.900 --> 14:25.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: You read the book Takedown.
[14:26.380 --> 14:26.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[14:27.080 --> 14:27.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Parts of it.
[14:27.780 --> 14:28.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: You saw the book Takedown.
[14:28.880 --> 14:29.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw the book.
[14:29.640 --> 14:29.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[14:30.080 --> 14:31.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what it's about.
[14:31.280 --> 14:31.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[14:31.720 --> 14:31.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[14:32.580 --> 14:34.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Got this fellow Wynn Schwartow down in Florida.
[14:34.880 --> 14:35.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[14:35.780 --> 14:37.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we can say some things about him too, I guess.
[14:37.680 --> 14:39.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: But this is something that he wrote.
[14:40.200 --> 14:43.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a review of the book.
[14:44.700 --> 14:49.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: A review by Wynn Schwartow of Takedown by Tsutomu Shimomura and John Markoff.
[14:50.200 --> 14:50.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[14:50.740 --> 14:51.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what he has to say.
[14:52.420 --> 14:54.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Markoff is a good guy and we get along well.
[14:55.820 --> 14:57.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: That says it all right there.
[14:57.140 --> 14:57.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it doesn't.
[14:57.640 --> 14:58.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot more to it.
[14:58.420 --> 14:59.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: But let's listen in here.
[15:00.080 --> 15:05.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know and like Tsutomu and respect his capabilities.
[15:05.700 --> 15:06.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I like thrillers.
[15:06.720 --> 15:07.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I like technical books.
[15:07.820 --> 15:10.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: I look forward to reading his book on a recent plane trip.
[15:10.620 --> 15:18.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: However, Takedown is a 300-page tome with 280 pages of excruciatingly unnecessary minutia.
[15:20.040 --> 15:21.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here's his story.
[15:22.040 --> 15:24.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu wants to spend the winter skiing in Tahoe.
[15:25.020 --> 15:27.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: His computer gets hacked and he takes it personally.
[15:27.400 --> 15:30.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: He reluctantly returns to San Diego to rollerblade around Miramar Lake.
[15:30.820 --> 15:39.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: He drives through heavy snow, eats french fries, and picks up his quasi-girlfriend at San Francisco Airport after she hiked the peaks in Nepal.
[15:40.000 --> 15:42.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu eats fish tacos at Rubio's.
[15:42.180 --> 15:47.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: He drives his Acura to his beachfront condo and plays with his home computer network to find out what the hacker did.
[15:47.460 --> 15:48.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu gets irritated.
[15:48.560 --> 15:49.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: He can't ski.
[15:49.780 --> 15:53.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: He gets hacked some more and eats healthy food while watching his computer screen.
[15:53.540 --> 15:58.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: He discusses his future with Julia while erstwhile friend John Gilmore loses her to him.
[15:58.420 --> 16:00.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: He eats Thai food.
[16:02.060 --> 16:05.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu puts together an anti-hacker team to trace down the intruder.
[16:05.900 --> 16:07.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: They write some software to do the job.
[16:08.400 --> 16:10.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: He eats french fries, but no burger.
[16:10.860 --> 16:11.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: He goes...
[16:11.880 --> 16:13.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: He goes...
[16:13.280 --> 16:16.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: He goes to a conference and sits in a hot tub eating.
[16:16.880 --> 16:17.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu tells us...
[16:17.860 --> 16:19.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a wonder this guy isn't 400 pounds.
[16:19.660 --> 16:23.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu tells us about spelunking on Princeton University campus buildings.
[16:23.340 --> 16:25.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: He tells us what a smart guy he is.
[16:25.260 --> 16:26.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: He disses friends and acquaintances.
[16:26.760 --> 16:28.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's very irritated he can't ski.
[16:28.980 --> 16:29.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: So he skis.
[16:30.020 --> 16:32.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: He discovered the IP spoofing attack.
[16:32.800 --> 16:36.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: He helps the we have no security well prove they have no security.
[16:37.340 --> 16:39.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: One morning he wakes up with Julia.
[16:40.300 --> 16:44.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Another day, he didn't have time to change his lycra.
[16:45.020 --> 16:45.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know that word?
[16:46.100 --> 16:47.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: L-Y-C-R-A?
[16:47.480 --> 16:47.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Lycra.
[16:48.020 --> 16:48.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Lycra.
[16:48.620 --> 16:49.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: What does that mean?
[16:49.760 --> 16:50.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: What does that mean?
[16:51.540 --> 16:52.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: Spandex?
[16:52.380 --> 16:52.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[16:52.900 --> 16:53.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Ah.
[16:53.040 --> 16:55.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Cross-country ski clothes.
[16:55.600 --> 16:56.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: So he doesn't have time to change them.
[16:56.980 --> 16:57.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[16:57.400 --> 16:59.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: He calls the FBI to aid in the great hacker hunt.
[17:00.060 --> 17:01.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu and Julia eat lunch at the well.
[17:01.920 --> 17:05.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mild Chinese scallops, shrimp, snow peas, and Kung Pao chicken.
[17:06.100 --> 17:08.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: He writes more software to chase Mitnick.
[17:08.180 --> 17:09.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mitnick continues to taunt Tsutomu.
[17:10.040 --> 17:10.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Markov joins the hunt.
[17:11.060 --> 17:11.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: He was hacked, too.
[17:12.300 --> 17:16.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu watches Mitnick's movements on the net and then goes to dinner with Julia at 10 p.m.
[17:16.140 --> 17:19.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: at a Mexican restaurant where Carlos Santana's father once played in a mariachi band.
[17:20.340 --> 17:22.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: He disses more friends, or ex-friends.
[17:22.660 --> 17:25.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: He and Julia hate the Holiday Inn, so they move in with Dan Farmer.
[17:26.000 --> 17:27.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Julia avoids a crisis.
[17:27.440 --> 17:28.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu hates botany.
[17:28.940 --> 17:32.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu skates in circles while waiting for Julia at the bottom of the hill.
[17:32.760 --> 17:38.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: After skating, he and Julia went to Samurai, a Japanese restaurant in Sausalito, without taking a shower.
[17:38.720 --> 17:42.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: The Colorado Supernet, an ISP, is apparently a victim of Mitnick as well.
[17:43.000 --> 17:47.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu says that Emmanuel Goldstein and Fiberoptic live in one of the Internet's more seedy neighborhoods.
[17:49.240 --> 17:50.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thought you'd like to know that.
[17:50.920 --> 17:55.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu angrily tells his loyal aide never to use the word assume ever again.
[17:56.000 --> 17:59.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: John Gilmore invites Julia to a funky 60s-style resort for the weekend.
[18:00.300 --> 18:01.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: She vacillates.
[18:02.160 --> 18:04.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu puts off the wired photographer.
[18:04.500 --> 18:07.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: He eats a burrito in Julia's antique Mazda.
[18:07.540 --> 18:11.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: He gets funding from Netcom to pursue the hacker, allegedly Mitnick.
[18:11.000 --> 18:12.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu disses the well.
[18:12.640 --> 18:13.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: He likes the Netcom guys.
[18:14.360 --> 18:14.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-oh.
[18:15.080 --> 18:16.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mitnick seems to be in Raleigh, North Carolina.
[18:17.400 --> 18:18.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu disses GTE.
[18:19.100 --> 18:20.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: They do a lot of technical stuff.
[18:20.780 --> 18:23.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Step by step, he calls the intruder an ankle biter.
[18:23.820 --> 18:28.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: After borrowing equipment from Sun, they all pile into a shiny blue-green Mustang to go to a brewery.
[18:29.060 --> 18:31.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Someone ate horseradish mashed potatoes.
[18:32.240 --> 18:34.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu and crew work late doing techie stuff.
[18:35.160 --> 18:36.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: They nearly run out of caffeine.
[18:37.460 --> 18:39.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu titles a chapter, You Lamers.
[18:40.560 --> 18:43.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: He gives Robert almost $6 for breakfast.
[18:43.880 --> 18:47.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu eavesdrops on net conversations between Mitnick and an Israeli ally.
[18:47.920 --> 18:50.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Reading other people's email is the highlight of this book.
[18:50.780 --> 18:55.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tired, Tsutomu and friends go to Hobie's and eat veggie burgers and fruit smoothies.
[18:55.420 --> 18:56.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: They sleep in Julia's car.
[18:57.300 --> 18:58.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sleeping bags cover them.
[18:58.860 --> 19:01.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu calls GTE engineers bozos.
[19:01.760 --> 19:04.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: He tells us about Mitnick's upbringing and brushes with the law.
[19:04.660 --> 19:06.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Then he disses Mitnick's skills as a hacker.
[19:06.460 --> 19:11.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Markroff joins Tsutomu to eat at Bucky's, a VC hangout and restaurant.
[19:11.640 --> 19:12.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is that, Viet Cong?
[19:13.080 --> 19:14.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I was thinking.
[19:14.800 --> 19:15.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[19:15.600 --> 19:18.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: He tells Tsutomu his soup is getting cold.
[19:20.360 --> 19:22.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu disses pie of the well.
[19:22.420 --> 19:23.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pie is one of their administrators.
[19:23.960 --> 19:25.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: They eat at Round Table Pizza.
[19:25.660 --> 19:29.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu and telco engineers play a game of Battleship and figure Mitnick really is in Raleigh.
[19:29.800 --> 19:34.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: He flies to Raleigh in first class and discovers someone put apples and bananas in his day pack.
[19:34.680 --> 19:38.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: He wears his Birkenstock sandals to the frozen East Coast in winter.
[19:38.620 --> 19:39.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: No socks either.
[19:40.160 --> 19:42.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Julia almost goes to Denver instead of Raleigh.
[19:42.280 --> 19:44.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Her weekend with John did not go well.
[19:44.780 --> 19:46.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu disses the FBI to make them look foolish.
[19:47.300 --> 19:50.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: On the trail of Mitnick and Raleigh, they stop at a 7-Eleven for coffee.
[19:50.540 --> 19:52.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: They get close, but the feds play a turf game.
[19:53.060 --> 19:55.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Julia shows up and wakes Tsutomu gently.
[19:56.520 --> 19:59.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: After a snooze, they meet Markroff at the Sheridan Restaurant.
[20:00.040 --> 20:02.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Julia eats a white bread club sandwich.
[20:02.280 --> 20:03.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu ate grilled cheese.
[20:03.600 --> 20:05.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Markroff ate a chicken breast sandwich.
[20:06.160 --> 20:07.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Andrew nearly blows the investigation.
[20:08.300 --> 20:09.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: More FBI agents arrive.
[20:09.980 --> 20:11.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: They eat at Ragazzi's.
[20:11.340 --> 20:12.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: The bread was fresh.
[20:12.160 --> 20:13.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: The salad was strictly iceberg.
[20:13.800 --> 20:16.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: The FBI and Markroff and Tsutomu go after Mitnick.
[20:16.240 --> 20:18.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: The FBI figure out John Markroff is with the New York Times.
[20:18.700 --> 20:19.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: He splits.
[20:19.440 --> 20:21.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: The FBI yells at Tsutomu, What's your agenda?
[20:22.120 --> 20:23.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: They are suspicious of his motivations.
[20:24.440 --> 20:27.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: While waiting for warrants for Mitnick, Julia gets hungry.
[20:27.200 --> 20:28.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: She buys Subway Heroes for all.
[20:28.980 --> 20:33.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: They play more warrant games, get ready to strike, and order in Chinese food.
[20:33.920 --> 20:34.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: They wait.
[20:34.840 --> 20:35.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Andrew screws up again.
[20:36.300 --> 20:39.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: The FBI locate Mitnick using direction finders and cell freaking.
[20:39.800 --> 20:40.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: They bust in on Mitnick.
[20:41.060 --> 20:42.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mitnick vomits on his living room floor.
[20:42.880 --> 20:45.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: In court, Mitnick tells Tsutomu he respects his skills.
[20:46.140 --> 20:48.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tsutomu and Julia spend the day in their hotel room.
[20:48.400 --> 20:49.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: They go out to dinner.
[20:49.600 --> 20:50.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think Tsutomu got the girl.
[20:51.040 --> 20:52.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just saved you $24.95.
[20:53.940 --> 20:56.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Takedown by Tsutomu Shimomura with John Markoff.
[20:57.040 --> 20:57.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[20:58.260 --> 21:00.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that applause is for Wynne Schwartow somewhere in Florida.
[21:01.120 --> 21:02.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you have some things to say about it, I think.
[21:03.220 --> 21:03.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[21:04.640 --> 21:05.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's an idiot.
[21:05.540 --> 21:05.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: You think so?
[21:06.000 --> 21:06.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's besides the point.
[21:06.940 --> 21:10.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now, you might say that, but you say that people don't believe what he says.
[21:10.620 --> 21:13.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I got some information to prove otherwise.
[21:14.240 --> 21:21.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's not to say that people don't believe a lot of the crazy stuff he talks about about herp guns and space aliens and things, but he's...
[21:22.740 --> 21:39.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: A lot of people who are actually in the industry, from what I understand, and have been for some time, don't really give this used car dealer slash private investigator slash whatever else person from Florida very much credit.
[21:39.940 --> 21:40.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[21:40.380 --> 21:42.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Congress does, and so does the Defense Department.
[21:42.480 --> 21:42.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Listen to this.
[21:43.020 --> 21:56.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: A Defense Department panel in an unusually strident report recommended $3 billion of additional spending over the next five years to improve the security of the nation's telecommunications and computing infrastructure.
[21:56.540 --> 21:59.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Warning of a possible electronic Pearl Harbor.
[21:59.860 --> 22:01.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we know where that phrase came from.
[22:01.560 --> 22:03.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's one of Winn Schwartows right there.
[22:03.540 --> 22:05.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Warning of a possible electronic Pearl Harbor.
[22:05.620 --> 22:15.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: The task force appointed by the Defense Science Board also said the Pentagon should seek the legal authority to launch, get this, counterattacks against computer hackers.
[22:15.140 --> 22:18.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: There is a need for extraordinary action.
[22:18.300 --> 22:26.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: The board's task force on information warfare defense, that's another one of his phrases, stated in a report that was quietly released on Friday.
[22:26.420 --> 22:31.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Current practices and assumptions, it said, are ingredients in a recipe for a national security disaster.
[22:31.980 --> 22:36.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: The report predicts that by the year 2005, attacks on U.S.
[22:36.360 --> 22:42.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: information systems by terrorist groups, organized criminals, and foreign espionized agencies are likely to be widespread.
[22:44.240 --> 22:48.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: $3 billion they're going to pour into something dealing with this.
[22:49.200 --> 22:51.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they want to actually use this.
[22:51.700 --> 22:52.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the interesting part.
[22:55.000 --> 23:05.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Dwayne Andrews, a former Assistant Defense Secretary for Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence, said in an interview that current law doesn't permit counterattacks against computer hackers.
[23:05.200 --> 23:15.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: He said he would like to see the law changed to allow the Pentagon to respond by injecting the attackers' computers with a polymorphic virus that wipes out the system and takes it down for weeks.
[23:16.060 --> 23:17.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: These people watch way too many movies.
[23:17.900 --> 23:19.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think they're watching TV, yeah.
[23:19.580 --> 23:20.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're...
[23:20.400 --> 23:27.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what they're fantasizing about, but can you imagine the Pentagon striking at computer hackers and injecting viruses into our systems?
[23:27.780 --> 23:29.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: They'll be egging the kids on.
[23:29.560 --> 23:30.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so.
[23:30.640 --> 23:34.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of, you know, 14- and 15-year-olds out there might see that as a challenge.
[23:34.880 --> 23:35.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[23:35.280 --> 23:37.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think a lot of people would, actually.
[23:38.520 --> 23:40.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's see who else is out there.
[23:40.200 --> 23:43.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see if our real audio experiment tonight is working.
[23:44.400 --> 23:47.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Our phone numbers are in the appropriate places.
[23:47.000 --> 23:50.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're listening to us now in New York, 212-279-3400.
[23:50.640 --> 23:54.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're listening to us from someplace else, call the number that's on your screen.
[23:55.200 --> 23:56.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's see who's out there.
[23:56.140 --> 23:56.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[23:56.460 --> 23:56.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[23:58.120 --> 23:58.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[23:58.500 --> 23:59.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[23:59.580 --> 24:00.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Atlanta, Georgia.
[24:00.440 --> 24:01.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Atlanta, Georgia.
[24:01.120 --> 24:02.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Are you getting us?
[24:03.480 --> 24:04.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: On real audio?
[24:04.460 --> 24:04.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[24:04.900 --> 24:05.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, we are not.
[24:05.560 --> 24:06.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're not getting us on real audio?
[24:07.000 --> 24:07.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[24:07.520 --> 24:07.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[24:09.740 --> 24:11.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a new technology, all right?
[24:11.320 --> 24:12.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's not that new.
[24:12.400 --> 24:13.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know.
[24:13.700 --> 24:15.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to find out what the problem is.
[24:15.380 --> 24:17.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to call our technician and find out what's going on.
[24:17.980 --> 24:19.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, are we going to ever call them?
[24:19.540 --> 24:21.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Have you heard anything of the show?
[24:21.860 --> 24:23.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's giving me an error 22.
[24:23.820 --> 24:24.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Error 22?
[24:24.800 --> 24:24.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[24:25.240 --> 24:25.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[24:25.580 --> 24:27.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to check into this for you, all right?
[24:27.320 --> 24:28.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Stay by your computer.
[24:28.600 --> 24:28.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[24:28.920 --> 24:29.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[24:29.220 --> 24:29.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for calling.
[24:29.780 --> 24:29.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: Sure.
[24:30.580 --> 24:33.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is an embarrassment, but at least we're being embarrassed only in New York.
[24:33.840 --> 24:34.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[24:34.560 --> 24:39.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: At least, well, we're being embarrassed in name over the net, but not by the sound of us not knowing what we're doing.
[24:40.160 --> 24:44.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, let's give Manos and Technician a shout-out here.
[24:45.040 --> 24:47.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we got the dial tone there.
[24:48.980 --> 24:50.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, what is that number?
[24:50.360 --> 24:50.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.
[24:53.480 --> 24:53.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[24:54.560 --> 24:56.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're, uh, ringing up live now.
[24:56.840 --> 24:57.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[24:57.340 --> 24:58.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Manos.
[24:58.300 --> 24:58.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes?
[24:58.620 --> 25:02.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're getting some complaints from around the world saying that nobody can hear us.
[25:02.340 --> 25:03.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have any idea why that would be?
[25:03.800 --> 25:05.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have no idea.
[25:05.520 --> 25:10.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right now, we have about 20 people connecting and listening to us.
[25:10.540 --> 25:10.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[25:10.800 --> 25:15.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, one person said that he got an error about some machine called Phobos saying it didn't exist.
[25:15.960 --> 25:19.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it was a small problem that got fixed as soon as they complained.
[25:20.120 --> 25:22.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, another person said he got an error 22.
[25:23.400 --> 25:24.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Please, I just heard about it.
[25:25.080 --> 25:25.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[25:25.980 --> 25:27.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to check more about it.
[25:27.400 --> 25:36.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, if you're out there right now and you're listening to us on the net and you actually can hear us, we ask you to call now so that we can know that somebody out there is listening.
[25:36.720 --> 25:37.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right?
[25:37.480 --> 25:39.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Manos, and let us know if anything else happens.
[25:39.800 --> 25:40.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[25:40.260 --> 25:40.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[25:41.660 --> 25:48.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And our phone number is 212-279-3400, but not for you people listening over the Internet because then you'll just get weeded in with all the New York people.
[25:48.600 --> 25:51.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: So let's go to one of those New York calls and see what's going on out here.
[25:51.400 --> 25:51.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[25:51.740 --> 25:52.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[25:53.680 --> 25:54.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: You got to speak up.
[25:54.720 --> 25:54.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[25:55.040 --> 25:55.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[25:55.840 --> 25:56.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, guys.
[25:56.800 --> 25:57.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: How are you doing?
[25:57.280 --> 25:59.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Last week, I heard you talking about Omnipoint.
[25:59.640 --> 26:02.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know something about it because I've been to some of their sites.
[26:02.300 --> 26:03.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know a friend who works for them.
[26:03.900 --> 26:05.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're putting up a lot of small sites.
[26:05.500 --> 26:08.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: They only have about two to three block range, maybe up to a mile, the sites.
[26:09.860 --> 26:14.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're using 13 dB gain antennas and they're running about 100 watts of ERP.
[26:15.180 --> 26:15.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[26:16.540 --> 26:22.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And totally time domain, basically a time domain and then they go out the T1 lines out to the main hub.
[26:23.380 --> 26:28.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And in Manhattan, they're not all online yet but basically they're just putting up all their stuff right now.
[26:28.520 --> 26:29.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: They've got about a two-year building project.
[26:30.440 --> 26:30.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[26:31.200 --> 26:31.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Two years?
[26:32.000 --> 26:33.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to take two years for them to get...
[26:33.720 --> 26:42.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, because the first thing they've got to do is they've got to go out, pick these locations, put them on top and all this stuff goes in apartment buildings or they don't want to go higher than 100 feet above ground.
[26:42.840 --> 26:46.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't want to go too high or basically don't interfere with another cell site.
[26:46.600 --> 26:49.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: They want to stay between 90 to 100 feet above ground.
[26:49.160 --> 26:55.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: They've got to rent the sites and then they get their real estate department going out and then they've got to get a T1 line from the site.
[26:55.800 --> 26:58.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: They've got to buy a T1 line and bring them all the way to their main hub.
[27:00.020 --> 27:02.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Does that sound reasonable to you, Fiber?
[27:02.080 --> 27:07.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, actually considering all that I think it's remarkable that they've been able to get it to the point that it's been...
[27:07.160 --> 27:08.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: 90 to 100 feet above street level though.
[27:08.960 --> 27:09.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's not very high.
[27:09.940 --> 27:10.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, that height.
[27:11.000 --> 27:12.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true, but where are these antennas?
[27:12.960 --> 27:14.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: These are small antennas and you can't even see them.
[27:14.580 --> 27:16.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some of them are hidden.
[27:16.380 --> 27:18.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're just painted in such a way that they look like...
[27:18.160 --> 27:19.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: They look like little beams.
[27:19.660 --> 27:22.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: They look like little round discs, basically.
[27:23.160 --> 27:25.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're a lot smaller than the cellular antennas.
[27:25.120 --> 27:27.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're a lot less noticeable because they're on a higher frequency.
[27:28.020 --> 27:33.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: They go on top of three and four-story buildings where some of these things will be put on top next to an advertising sign.
[27:33.960 --> 27:41.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: The whole cell site is only about four feet long and about two and a half feet width and weighs about 1,000 pounds because of all the electronics.
[27:41.360 --> 27:49.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're being made by two companies, Ericsson and some other company somewhere in Europe is making them.
[27:49.660 --> 27:50.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't think of the name right now.
[27:50.940 --> 27:57.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And basically, the thing has three transmitters, three receivers, and they get the digital equipment and each one is tied into a T1 line.
[27:57.760 --> 28:01.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everything is T1 line going into a central hub located in New Jersey.
[28:02.820 --> 28:03.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[28:03.340 --> 28:09.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And from there, the second thing I wanted to make a comment to you guys, you were saying now that we're going to get competition.
[28:09.340 --> 28:10.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: The reason why we...
[28:10.080 --> 28:11.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's not totally true.
[28:11.480 --> 28:23.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: The only thing was just because we had AT&T and all these big guys at one time, up to recently, we had all kinds of regulations that won't allow all of this going on now because right now there's a blur between what's a phone company and what's not the phone company.
[28:24.000 --> 28:30.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: The worst thing that we had was regulation because many years ago the phone company could not have computers in your telephone.
[28:30.640 --> 28:31.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: They separated...
[28:31.820 --> 28:37.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: They would not allow AT&T or local phone companies to have computers as part of your telephone.
[28:37.160 --> 28:37.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you aware of that?
[28:38.760 --> 28:39.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah.
[28:39.740 --> 28:42.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: For a long time, you couldn't plug modems directly into the wall, either.
[28:42.660 --> 28:44.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that wasn't because... only because AT&T wanted it.
[28:45.020 --> 28:45.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody thinks it was totally...
[28:45.940 --> 29:00.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: In 1959, there was a decision made that AT&T would not allow you... would not be allowed to have any kind of computing power in any of their equipment, in home describers, because IBM was afraid.
[29:00.440 --> 29:01.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it was put through Congress.
[29:02.200 --> 29:05.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: And due to that, back to the 18th, it says, well, no one's going to be able to connect up to our system.
[29:06.420 --> 29:12.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: A lot of the situations in which we did not get technology, or technology is five or ten years behind the times.
[29:13.180 --> 29:20.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: We would have had a lot of this stuff five years ago or ten years ago if we did not have government coming up with all of these crazy regulations.
[29:20.720 --> 29:22.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's who can carry services.
[29:22.960 --> 29:24.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: This was very protective at one time.
[29:26.120 --> 29:30.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Radio Common Carrier, a local phone company, could not do dispatching.
[29:30.720 --> 29:34.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a Radio Common Carrier could not handle telephone calls.
[29:35.000 --> 29:37.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: This was all written into the Act of 1934.
[29:38.340 --> 29:41.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And now that we have broken down all of this, we've done it.
[29:41.280 --> 29:44.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: One of the biggest mistakes I think this country has ever made was break up the phone company.
[29:44.660 --> 29:51.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because when you speak to people who are in the business, they're finding it almost impossible to raise the capital to do a lot of this stuff.
[29:51.740 --> 29:53.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: It takes a massive amount of capital.
[29:53.900 --> 29:56.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Omnipoint's going to be about a $3 billion project just in the New York area.
[29:57.020 --> 30:00.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but would you prefer to have a monopoly, one company doing everything like we did?
[30:01.080 --> 30:04.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was pretty damn good up to a certain point.
[30:04.580 --> 30:05.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: We had pretty good service.
[30:05.640 --> 30:06.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's not the point, though.
[30:06.620 --> 30:12.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if it's something that's all-encompassing, it's one company, you go to them for everything, and there's no competition.
[30:13.040 --> 30:16.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think that sort of overrides how convenient it is.
[30:16.320 --> 30:17.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I would agree.
[30:17.200 --> 30:18.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you see, I will agree.
[30:18.340 --> 30:20.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: The only thing we should do is not have government break it up.
[30:20.900 --> 30:23.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: We shouldn't let government prevent people from doing it.
[30:23.340 --> 30:24.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: We could have had AT&T.
[30:24.660 --> 30:27.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: At the same time, if people wanted to compete with them, we would do.
[30:28.060 --> 30:29.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: What we did was we broke up AT&T.
[30:30.240 --> 30:34.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: All we had to do was just change the law and tell AT&T, you can't stop people from competing.
[30:34.900 --> 30:35.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: They went too far.
[30:36.360 --> 30:44.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And now we're now hurting for what we're talking about, AOL and all of those, but there isn't enough resources out there for one company, for these companies to do it.
[30:45.740 --> 30:47.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's just my opinion.
[30:47.820 --> 30:48.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, thanks for calling.
[30:48.940 --> 30:54.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right away, Sprint is not going to be online for the next three, four years, because they've really made a big blunder in their technology.
[30:55.060 --> 30:56.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, we'll consider that then.
[30:56.560 --> 30:57.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll keep that in mind.
[30:57.480 --> 30:58.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for calling.
[30:58.200 --> 30:58.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for the opinions.
[30:59.040 --> 31:01.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: We could talk about this for hours, definitely, but...
[31:01.800 --> 31:05.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Does it kind of remind you of all the people in Russia that think that communism was better?
[31:05.840 --> 31:10.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, they think it was better after they try something else for a little while and it doesn't quite work out immediately.
[31:10.580 --> 31:10.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[31:10.900 --> 31:12.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and that's the case here.
[31:12.460 --> 31:20.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Things, you know... Actually, I think things are working out to a degree in some ways, but, you know, I don't think the old system was the right way to go, no matter what.
[31:20.500 --> 31:22.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's see if anybody's on the Internet.
[31:22.580 --> 31:22.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[31:23.040 --> 31:23.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[31:23.580 --> 31:24.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[31:24.520 --> 31:25.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've been to Oregon again.
[31:25.360 --> 31:26.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've got a solution for you.
[31:26.500 --> 31:27.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, are you getting through?
[31:27.900 --> 31:28.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, I am.
[31:28.460 --> 31:28.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've got it right now.
[31:29.060 --> 31:29.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, great, okay.
[31:29.840 --> 31:31.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: I turned it down so you don't echo, though.
[31:31.240 --> 31:31.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[31:31.480 --> 31:32.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: As bad.
[31:32.260 --> 31:38.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, right now you're the only person calling in from the net, so either people out there don't want to make phone calls, or maybe they're using their phone line to listen to us.
[31:38.500 --> 31:38.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[31:39.000 --> 31:39.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, they're probably just shy.
[31:39.840 --> 31:41.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: They might be shy, too.
[31:41.120 --> 31:41.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be shy.
[31:42.040 --> 31:42.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't hurt, you know.
[31:42.960 --> 31:45.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're out there, please give us a call on the number.
[31:45.440 --> 31:50.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: The number is on your... don't say the number, but the number is on your screen, right, as you're listening?
[31:50.400 --> 31:50.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Mm-hmm.
[31:51.120 --> 31:51.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: It is?
[31:51.680 --> 31:51.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[31:51.960 --> 31:53.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so just look at that number.
[31:53.440 --> 32:04.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're listening to us now on the net, even if you're in another country, our country code is 1, and if that's a problem, whatever you use to dial internationally, give us a call so that we can know that you're out there.
[32:05.040 --> 32:05.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[32:05.580 --> 32:06.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you have for us?
[32:06.380 --> 32:21.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, what you do is, from your real audio player, go to File, Open Location, and then type pnm, colon, forward slash, forward slash, phobos.tki.net, forward slash, live test.ra.
[32:22.340 --> 32:23.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do they have to type that?
[32:23.840 --> 32:25.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why can't they just click on the button?
[32:25.480 --> 32:36.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because what happened is, it looks like tki.net didn't fully qualify their domain name, and so it would work internally for them, because, you know, phobos is mapped to phobos.tki.net on their internal network.
[32:37.660 --> 32:42.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: So when they test it over there, it's working fine, but anybody else outside the network, it won't work.
[32:42.880 --> 32:43.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[32:43.600 --> 32:44.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's just brilliant.
[32:44.860 --> 32:46.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because the rest of the net doesn't know what phobos is.
[32:47.160 --> 32:47.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[32:47.580 --> 32:54.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now, assuming that they're listening to you right now and hearing you say this, will they be able to fix this so that that's no longer a problem?
[32:54.380 --> 32:55.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, they should be able to.
[32:55.600 --> 32:55.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[32:55.980 --> 32:58.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: They just need to edit their .rem file.
[32:58.440 --> 33:01.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Fiber, is there any instruction you can give over the radio to the people that are...
[33:01.520 --> 33:12.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, one or two things could be happening, either in the event that our friend from Oregon has reloaded the website, which, is he still there?
[33:12.240 --> 33:12.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, I am.
[33:13.280 --> 33:17.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have you reloaded since, because Manos called in, we spoke to Manos, actually, we called him.
[33:17.980 --> 33:18.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I heard that part, yeah.
[33:18.880 --> 33:21.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he said that he claims he fixed it anyway.
[33:21.780 --> 33:23.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I can go reload and see if he did.
[33:23.520 --> 33:23.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[33:23.920 --> 33:26.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, we have another call coming out on the web, so we're going to check that out.
[33:26.980 --> 33:27.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, thanks again.
[33:27.820 --> 33:28.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're welcome.
[33:28.440 --> 33:28.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Take care.
[33:29.920 --> 33:30.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[33:30.580 --> 33:31.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[33:31.040 --> 33:31.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[33:32.040 --> 33:32.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Just New Jersey.
[33:33.240 --> 33:35.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, then, you're in our listening area anyway.
[33:35.880 --> 33:37.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but I'm listening on the net.
[33:38.020 --> 33:39.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so you are getting us.
[33:39.320 --> 33:43.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just clicked on the little, listen to the show, click here.
[33:43.460 --> 33:43.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[33:44.020 --> 33:45.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was my second try.
[33:45.740 --> 33:48.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: The first try, it told me that there were too many people connected.
[33:49.140 --> 33:49.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[33:49.780 --> 33:51.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the second time.
[33:51.320 --> 33:52.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it just went right through.
[33:52.800 --> 33:53.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Went right through.
[33:53.640 --> 33:54.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that's good to hear.
[33:54.600 --> 33:54.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[33:54.980 --> 33:55.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for calling.
[33:55.660 --> 33:55.820]  Okay.
[33:56.600 --> 33:58.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's take another call from the net.
[33:58.660 --> 33:58.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[33:59.060 --> 33:59.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[33:59.420 --> 33:59.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[34:00.860 --> 34:01.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Columbia, South Carolina.
[34:02.260 --> 34:03.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Columbia.
[34:03.640 --> 34:05.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: And are you getting us loud and clear on the net?
[34:05.880 --> 34:06.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm not.
[34:06.760 --> 34:08.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I'm calling you.
[34:08.240 --> 34:08.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy.
[34:08.920 --> 34:11.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, you see, you understand, this is technology in its infancy.
[34:11.740 --> 34:12.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[34:12.280 --> 34:14.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're sort of figuring it all out right now.
[34:14.260 --> 34:15.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us what happened when you tried connecting.
[34:15.980 --> 34:16.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[34:16.700 --> 34:20.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: It says my bandwidth is not fast enough to receive it.
[34:20.660 --> 34:21.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: What are you connecting at?
[34:22.520 --> 34:28.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I'm connecting through CompuServe into your website.
[34:28.620 --> 34:29.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Through CompuServe.
[34:29.680 --> 34:29.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[34:30.040 --> 34:31.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't get in any other way.
[34:31.960 --> 34:35.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what kind of hardware do you have?
[34:35.520 --> 34:37.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a 28.8?
[34:38.740 --> 34:43.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that a 28.8 or a 14.4?
[34:43.560 --> 34:44.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you be able to do that with a 14.4?
[34:45.060 --> 34:45.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, gee.
[34:46.520 --> 34:48.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's kind of tight.
[34:48.000 --> 34:57.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: It depends, because I know that when you download Real Audio Player, she might just have the wrong version of Real Audio Player, because when you download it, you could get the older version, version 2.
[34:57.600 --> 34:58.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a 3.0.
[34:58.740 --> 34:59.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, it's 3.0?
[34:59.800 --> 34:59.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[35:00.180 --> 35:02.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think 3.0 supports 14.4.
[35:02.780 --> 35:03.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: 2.0 does.
[35:03.760 --> 35:04.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, 2.0 does.
[35:04.960 --> 35:08.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: What you might want to try doing is going back to Real Audio's website and getting version 2.
[35:08.980 --> 35:10.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, you have enough time to do it.
[35:10.420 --> 35:10.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[35:10.800 --> 35:18.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Even at 14.4, you can still download it and, you know, install it and listen to us for, like, the last maybe 10 minutes of our show, but you'll still be able to do it, I think.
[35:18.580 --> 35:18.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[35:18.740 --> 35:19.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: How about going through CompuServe?
[35:19.700 --> 35:20.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that a problem, you think?
[35:20.300 --> 35:21.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: That shouldn't be a problem.
[35:21.260 --> 35:21.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[35:21.680 --> 35:22.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll try.
[35:22.700 --> 35:23.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, good luck.
[35:23.360 --> 35:23.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[35:24.120 --> 35:27.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, if anybody else is out there on the net, please give us a call, because we'd like to hear from you.
[35:29.260 --> 35:30.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's a call that's just coming in right now.
[35:30.720 --> 35:32.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see if this is a net person.
[35:32.460 --> 35:32.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[35:32.720 --> 35:33.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[35:33.180 --> 35:33.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[35:34.100 --> 35:35.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm calling from Boston.
[35:35.600 --> 35:35.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Boston.
[35:36.240 --> 35:37.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: And how are we coming in up there?
[35:37.740 --> 35:38.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're coming in very well.
[35:39.040 --> 35:40.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, it's good to hear a positive report.
[35:41.220 --> 35:42.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Did you have any trouble getting us?
[35:42.660 --> 35:44.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, I just clicked on the...
[35:44.660 --> 35:45.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: At first, it wasn't working.
[35:45.800 --> 35:46.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was getting an error of 22.
[35:46.960 --> 35:47.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: I looked it up.
[35:47.560 --> 35:50.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: It said that you may be going through...
[35:50.480 --> 35:54.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Your service provider may be going through a firewall, not allowing it back in.
[35:54.260 --> 35:58.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Then I just tried a couple more times, and it let it right on through, and I could hear you fine.
[35:58.500 --> 35:58.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, great.
[35:59.040 --> 36:00.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it sounds like the problem has been fixed.
[36:00.560 --> 36:00.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[36:00.980 --> 36:05.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, all right, well, what should we ask these people?
[36:05.480 --> 36:07.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now we have them from all different parts of the world.
[36:08.440 --> 36:09.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: What have you...
[36:09.140 --> 36:10.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: How much of the show have you heard?
[36:11.820 --> 36:19.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: It just started working for me about maybe six minutes ago, and I was just blanking because it's pretty good now that you've got this up in the air because I'm up here in Boston.
[36:20.220 --> 36:20.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[36:21.180 --> 36:29.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I know a lot of people have heard about the show and want to hear it in different parts of the world, and it's, of course, kind of hard to get a radio station all over the country, all over the world, in fact.
[36:29.480 --> 36:31.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is one method of doing it.
[36:31.740 --> 36:36.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know, is it a lot of trouble to go to listen to this, or do you think it's pretty simple?
[36:36.880 --> 36:37.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's pretty simple.
[36:38.020 --> 36:40.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just downloaded the new version, and I'm all set.
[36:40.760 --> 36:41.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[36:41.280 --> 36:41.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: It worked fine.
[36:42.480 --> 36:42.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[36:43.040 --> 36:43.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[36:43.480 --> 36:45.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's hope we can do this on a regular basis.
[36:45.380 --> 36:45.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[36:45.820 --> 36:46.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[36:46.240 --> 36:47.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Say hi to everybody in Boston.
[36:47.320 --> 36:47.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Take care.
[36:47.780 --> 36:47.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye.
[36:48.340 --> 36:50.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we have another net call.
[36:50.420 --> 36:50.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[36:50.860 --> 36:51.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[36:51.260 --> 36:51.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[36:52.760 --> 36:53.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, New York.
[36:53.580 --> 36:53.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: New York.
[36:54.120 --> 36:55.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, you can listen to us on the radio.
[36:56.160 --> 36:56.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I am.
[36:56.840 --> 36:57.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[36:57.220 --> 36:57.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[36:57.660 --> 37:01.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, then call the other line because this is for the net people.
[37:02.120 --> 37:03.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Boy, can you believe that?
[37:06.880 --> 37:07.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: New York.
[37:08.480 --> 37:10.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: You heard what I did to the last caller, didn't you?
[37:10.340 --> 37:11.360]  [SPEAKER_26]: No, you can't hang up on me.
[37:11.480 --> 37:12.060]  [SPEAKER_26]: This is just Sean.
[37:12.900 --> 37:13.880]  [SPEAKER_26]: Eric knows who I am.
[37:14.000 --> 37:14.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[37:14.360 --> 37:15.260]  [SPEAKER_26]: It's coming in clear, though.
[37:15.480 --> 37:16.100]  [SPEAKER_26]: It is coming in clear.
[37:16.100 --> 37:21.040]  [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah, with a slight delay, but I'm listening to my ear and on the net, but there's a slight delay, but it's coming in good.
[37:21.460 --> 37:21.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[37:22.240 --> 37:24.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: There is a delay with real audio, is there not?
[37:24.280 --> 37:25.000]  [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah, I think so.
[37:25.180 --> 37:26.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Are you using delay on the panel?
[37:27.060 --> 37:28.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there is delay.
[37:28.260 --> 37:33.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're on a six-second delay here, so if I say something, you won't hear it for six seconds, but I think there's a delay on top of that.
[37:34.020 --> 37:34.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, probably.
[37:35.140 --> 37:36.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: A little more delay, too.
[37:36.560 --> 37:38.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but everything seems to be working, then.
[37:38.540 --> 37:39.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it's perfect.
[37:39.440 --> 37:39.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, good.
[37:40.000 --> 37:40.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
[37:40.400 --> 37:40.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's good to know.
[37:40.980 --> 37:41.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Talk to you later.
[37:41.520 --> 37:41.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for calling.
[37:42.180 --> 37:42.480]  No problem.
[37:42.980 --> 37:44.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so things seem to be working.
[37:44.480 --> 37:46.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go back to New York, take some New York phone calls.
[37:46.720 --> 37:46.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[37:47.040 --> 37:47.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[37:48.380 --> 37:48.720]  [SPEAKER_22]: Hello?
[37:48.980 --> 37:49.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, go ahead.
[37:49.760 --> 37:50.420]  [SPEAKER_22]: Hi, great.
[37:50.680 --> 37:53.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: I dialed the regular number, so I'm listening on the radio.
[37:53.620 --> 37:53.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[37:53.820 --> 37:59.620]  [SPEAKER_22]: I have a question, but first, I want to briefly introduce myself throughout the world, especially hopefully if people are listening in Tibet.
[37:59.840 --> 38:01.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: You could become a world celebrity.
[38:01.720 --> 38:02.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: Yes, my name is Mark.
[38:02.960 --> 38:06.820]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm in the Bronx, and you can categorize me as a mad genius.
[38:07.720 --> 38:35.860]  [SPEAKER_22]: My question is about an article I read a number of years ago in New York, a long, long article about another mad genius who had nothing in his life to do but in his basement assemble what at the time was the world's largest non-governmental supercomputer for the purpose of determining pi to as far as possible as it was at the time in terms of billions and billions of digits.
[38:35.860 --> 38:39.140]  [SPEAKER_22]: My question is, are you familiar with this gentleman?
[38:39.260 --> 38:43.960]  [SPEAKER_22]: I believe he is involved in mathematics and may be a professor somewhere.
[38:44.320 --> 38:54.980]  [SPEAKER_22]: And if so, do you think you can recruit him to join the hacker ranks and perhaps add his expertise to the fun stuff you guys do?
[38:54.980 --> 39:01.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sir, let me tell you, when you've calculated pi to billions of digits, you don't want human interaction anymore.
[39:01.620 --> 39:04.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's something that's, you know, you've gone beyond that point.
[39:05.120 --> 39:05.380]  [SPEAKER_22]: Really?
[39:05.540 --> 39:09.280]  [SPEAKER_22]: So you think his first love is pure abstract mathematics?
[39:09.280 --> 39:10.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think, yes, I think so.
[39:10.800 --> 39:14.660]  [SPEAKER_22]: With none of this fun cloak and dagger stuff you guys are into?
[39:14.700 --> 39:15.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's completely binary.
[39:16.600 --> 39:21.240]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay, well, again, I hope the Dalai Lama heard me in quotes and take care, Bob.
[39:21.260 --> 39:21.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, take care.
[39:22.960 --> 39:24.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: You hear about this guy, calculating pi?
[39:24.460 --> 39:28.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, but I don't know exactly what's so abstract about dividing the circumference by the diameter.
[39:28.680 --> 39:29.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's pretty straightforward.
[39:29.880 --> 39:31.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but the thing is, you can just keep doing it forever.
[39:32.380 --> 39:33.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that would happen.
[39:34.120 --> 39:37.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Imagine if it was just a regular, you know, imagine if it was four or something.
[39:37.580 --> 39:38.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but then it wouldn't be a circle.
[39:38.860 --> 39:39.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[39:39.740 --> 39:40.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: But what if it was?
[39:41.040 --> 39:45.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: What if it was a circle and it was, you know, in some world somewhere it must be possible?
[39:46.260 --> 39:46.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[39:46.800 --> 39:50.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have these weird things going on all the time.
[39:50.420 --> 39:52.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's go back to the net.
[39:52.120 --> 39:53.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[39:53.360 --> 39:54.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[39:54.560 --> 39:55.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: New York.
[39:55.300 --> 39:55.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: New York.
[39:56.600 --> 39:57.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I'm not making myself clear.
[39:57.960 --> 39:59.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'll let you say something anyway.
[40:00.080 --> 40:01.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: But are you listening to the net?
[40:01.740 --> 40:02.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or are you just listening to the radio?
[40:03.140 --> 40:05.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm right now downloading real audio.
[40:05.200 --> 40:06.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you're downloading real audio.
[40:07.400 --> 40:09.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're kind of late, but okay, at least you're trying.
[40:09.800 --> 40:10.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Which real audio are you downloading?
[40:11.340 --> 40:12.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: The new version.
[40:12.520 --> 40:13.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: 3.0, right?
[40:13.380 --> 40:13.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[40:13.780 --> 40:14.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right?
[40:14.280 --> 40:15.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hopefully next week.
[40:15.620 --> 40:18.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know if we're going to do this next week, but we'll try.
[40:18.600 --> 40:19.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I got a question for you.
[40:19.920 --> 40:20.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go ahead.
[40:20.320 --> 40:22.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a mush set up running from a home PC.
[40:22.540 --> 40:22.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[40:23.340 --> 40:25.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which I've been warned is not a good idea.
[40:26.680 --> 40:34.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because someone told me that some hacker is going to come along and basically just crack straight through it to my files and just destroy me.
[40:34.720 --> 40:35.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Who told you that?
[40:36.240 --> 40:37.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, friend of mine.
[40:37.940 --> 40:38.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's his name?
[40:38.460 --> 40:39.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Win by any chance?
[40:39.640 --> 40:39.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Huh?
[40:40.320 --> 40:41.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, computer teacher.
[40:42.080 --> 40:42.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, okay.
[40:43.280 --> 40:44.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Computer teacher.
[40:44.260 --> 40:45.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't know what they're talking about.
[40:45.880 --> 40:47.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what do you have set up exactly?
[40:48.180 --> 40:49.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I got pen mush.
[40:50.200 --> 40:51.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever heard of this?
[40:51.360 --> 40:51.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: What?
[40:51.920 --> 40:52.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a mush.
[40:52.720 --> 40:53.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pen mush.
[40:53.840 --> 40:54.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a mud, right?
[40:54.940 --> 40:55.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's mush.
[40:55.620 --> 40:57.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you mean mush, not mush?
[40:57.500 --> 40:58.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's a regional thing.
[40:58.820 --> 40:59.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Some people pronounce it differently.
[41:00.100 --> 41:00.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
[41:00.540 --> 41:01.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Give the guy a break.
[41:02.120 --> 41:02.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[41:03.120 --> 41:04.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: So he's got this thing set up.
[41:04.620 --> 41:05.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can a hacker destroy him?
[41:05.820 --> 41:06.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's running mush, okay.
[41:06.640 --> 41:07.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[41:07.080 --> 41:12.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Someone told me that it's possible for someone to tell him that straight to me and break through to my terminal to the Internet.
[41:13.100 --> 41:13.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hmm.
[41:13.800 --> 41:15.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: What exactly are you running mush on?
[41:15.700 --> 41:17.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is it like a Linux box or something?
[41:17.540 --> 41:18.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
[41:18.120 --> 41:20.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's Windows 95 with a Windows 32 version of it.
[41:22.060 --> 41:29.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, well, there are certain ways of, uh, defeating security on Windows 95, but only if you're using Microsoft networking.
[41:30.160 --> 41:31.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are you using Microsoft networking?
[41:31.740 --> 41:31.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Nope.
[41:32.040 --> 41:33.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have a local Long Island server.
[41:33.640 --> 41:36.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, then there's not a, um, a whole heck of a lot somebody's going to do to you.
[41:37.180 --> 41:37.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[41:38.360 --> 41:38.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[41:38.780 --> 41:40.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can, you can breathe a little easier, sir.
[41:40.640 --> 41:41.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Continue downloading that program.
[41:42.080 --> 41:42.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: We want to hear you on the net.
[41:43.140 --> 41:43.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for calling.
[41:44.600 --> 41:44.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[41:44.900 --> 41:47.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-279-3400 is our local phone number.
[41:47.880 --> 41:49.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you net people, you know how to reach us.
[41:49.940 --> 41:51.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: We want to know if you're out there, and where are you calling from?
[41:52.220 --> 41:55.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so far we've heard from Oregon, we've heard from South Carolina, we've heard from Boston.
[41:55.780 --> 41:56.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And Mush.
[41:56.380 --> 41:58.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: And New York, and New Jersey, and places like that.
[41:58.880 --> 42:00.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't heard anything overseas.
[42:00.340 --> 42:03.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I guess, I guess overseas is kind of hard, right?
[42:03.040 --> 42:07.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because to listen to something real audio overseas, there must be a lot of delays and things like that.
[42:07.900 --> 42:08.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[42:08.080 --> 42:11.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: The people over there just don't have what it takes to listen to us right now.
[42:12.340 --> 42:14.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's no way they could be calling us.
[42:15.300 --> 42:16.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, I guess that's just sad.
[42:17.480 --> 42:18.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or they're asleep.
[42:18.320 --> 42:19.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's true.
[42:19.880 --> 42:21.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: They've got that time difference thing going on.
[42:21.780 --> 42:24.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if anyone is out there from overseas, we'd love to hear from you.
[42:24.560 --> 42:25.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: So you know the number, give us a call.
[42:26.500 --> 42:27.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go back to New York.
[42:27.420 --> 42:28.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[42:30.500 --> 42:31.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, speak up.
[42:32.320 --> 42:33.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, don't speak up then.
[42:33.820 --> 42:34.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[42:36.140 --> 42:36.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, hi.
[42:36.860 --> 42:39.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Want to talk about the scanner and the newspapers?
[42:39.520 --> 42:40.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, go ahead.
[42:40.620 --> 42:40.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[42:41.500 --> 42:41.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sick.
[42:42.820 --> 42:43.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello?
[42:49.160 --> 42:54.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you know, under the, uh, what was it, the 1986 law, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act?
[42:55.580 --> 43:00.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Number two, this guy claims he just bought a brand new scanner that could pick up the 800 band.
[43:00.360 --> 43:01.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't the band two years ago?
[43:01.920 --> 43:05.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that seems kind of odd how he was able to buy a scanner that could just do this.
[43:05.620 --> 43:05.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[43:06.180 --> 43:09.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: When you're in a car scanning somebody, don't you usually have background noise?
[43:09.840 --> 43:11.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Doesn't it break up the cell phone?
[43:11.620 --> 43:12.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it depends.
[43:12.460 --> 43:13.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: If the person was driving, yes.
[43:13.540 --> 43:19.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: If the person was standing around in a parking lot talking on a cellular phone, which many people do, then obviously it's not going to go anywhere.
[43:20.020 --> 43:24.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: These people claim they were driving in the car, driving around, happened to be, um, scanning, and all they heard...
[43:24.920 --> 43:25.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, wait.
[43:25.780 --> 43:26.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Look at the article, Fiber.
[43:26.840 --> 43:27.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Were they driving?
[43:27.540 --> 43:28.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they were driving.
[43:28.260 --> 43:28.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: They were in their car.
[43:29.000 --> 43:30.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: They were in the car driving.
[43:30.260 --> 43:31.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I want to hear that tape.
[43:31.200 --> 43:32.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I want to hear the background noise in that tape.
[43:32.460 --> 43:32.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's interesting.
[43:32.940 --> 43:33.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's very interesting.
[43:33.660 --> 43:35.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: They didn't release the tape, you know, to nobody.
[43:36.040 --> 43:36.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll say this.
[43:37.360 --> 43:38.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've, well, okay, no, wait a minute.
[43:38.860 --> 43:39.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me say it a different way.
[43:39.600 --> 43:40.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't say it.
[43:40.040 --> 43:50.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know of people who have driven around in their cars with possible cellular listener things on scanners, and I've heard from them that it goes away very quickly.
[43:50.180 --> 43:51.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, like in a minute or two.
[43:51.840 --> 43:53.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't like saying it like that.
[43:53.860 --> 43:54.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: In a minute...
[43:54.480 --> 43:55.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: I really didn't like saying that.
[43:55.500 --> 43:55.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[43:55.760 --> 43:57.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: In a couple of minutes, you usually lose the signal, right?
[43:58.260 --> 43:59.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's what I'm told.
[43:59.800 --> 43:59.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[44:00.160 --> 44:01.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And wouldn't there be background noise?
[44:01.640 --> 44:02.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wouldn't it be very unclear?
[44:04.260 --> 44:05.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: There'd be all kinds of noise, yes.
[44:05.700 --> 44:09.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: They claimed they went to Radio Shack, and they bought a scanner that could pick up 800 megahertz.
[44:09.720 --> 44:14.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there is a scanner you can buy at Radio Shack that's very easily modified, so they would have had to have modified the scanner.
[44:14.720 --> 44:15.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, but that they don't say.
[44:15.700 --> 44:17.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: They said, oh, we just happened to go in the store.
[44:17.440 --> 44:19.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: We love to have scanners, and we...
[44:19.200 --> 44:22.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you see, while I see your point, I don't want to condemn these people at all for what they did.
[44:22.900 --> 44:23.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: I do.
[44:23.440 --> 44:27.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, except for the part about, you know, trying to indict people based on what they say on the phone.
[44:28.120 --> 44:29.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's kind of sleazy.
[44:29.220 --> 44:32.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: But as far as listening in, you know, I think anybody can do that.
[44:32.360 --> 44:35.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but do you take a tape recorder usually and tape the conversations on a scanner?
[44:36.180 --> 44:39.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if I was to do something like that, I wouldn't tell you.
[44:39.220 --> 44:42.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then you would go to the media and to the New York Times?
[44:42.460 --> 44:51.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would be really, really funny, though, if somebody made tapes of all the conversations they could hear, and then, say, ten years from now, released it as an album, because nobody would remember what they said, and you couldn't get sued.
[44:51.980 --> 44:52.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a good idea.
[44:53.080 --> 44:53.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[44:53.780 --> 44:55.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: What's the music you were playing before in the background?
[44:56.240 --> 44:57.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: We were playing several things.
[44:57.700 --> 45:04.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: We were playing some folk implosion and some happy hardcore-type things from various other assorted bands.
[45:04.860 --> 45:05.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[45:05.560 --> 45:06.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have a great show.
[45:06.840 --> 45:07.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for calling.
[45:07.880 --> 45:08.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Take it.
[45:08.460 --> 45:08.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[45:09.160 --> 45:11.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, 212-279-3400.
[45:11.400 --> 45:13.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see if anybody is on the net right now.
[45:13.640 --> 45:13.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[45:14.040 --> 45:14.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[45:15.440 --> 45:16.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't seem to be calling from anywhere.
[45:17.260 --> 45:17.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[45:17.440 --> 45:18.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's try this person over here.
[45:18.460 --> 45:18.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[45:19.700 --> 45:20.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[45:20.400 --> 45:20.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Are you on the air?
[45:21.220 --> 45:21.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi.
[45:21.600 --> 45:23.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I got a couple of questions.
[45:23.680 --> 45:24.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.
[45:24.480 --> 45:26.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, for instance, what's this mush?
[45:26.740 --> 45:27.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm from Brooklyn.
[45:27.720 --> 45:28.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mush.
[45:28.620 --> 45:29.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[45:29.560 --> 45:32.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mush is, uh, mush is an offshoot of, uh, MUDS.
[45:32.940 --> 45:34.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, like the game?
[45:34.280 --> 45:34.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:34.940 --> 45:35.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[45:35.440 --> 45:36.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's something else to get addicted to.
[45:36.980 --> 45:37.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:37.580 --> 45:38.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[45:38.260 --> 45:41.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and then there's that pie weirdo.
[45:41.320 --> 45:42.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I agree with you.
[45:42.280 --> 45:44.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: If he does that, keep him away from normal people.
[45:45.440 --> 45:45.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[45:46.060 --> 45:46.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Fine.
[45:46.600 --> 45:46.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:47.000 --> 45:51.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I just want to tell my friend, Puppet Master, to take notes in case you can help me.
[45:51.240 --> 45:58.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I want to know, is there a way you can randomly set off pagers with, like, I was on IRC.
[45:58.100 --> 46:00.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe, uh, someone mentioned something about oscillating a crystal.
[46:00.720 --> 46:01.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Any truth to that?
[46:02.080 --> 46:05.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I, I would, I would tend to ignore most anything I hear on IRC.
[46:06.220 --> 46:10.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but, um, as far as setting off pagers, that is a topic that's come up quite a few times.
[46:10.920 --> 46:11.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[46:11.140 --> 46:17.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people want to be able to page people, I, I guess, with bogus, or, you know, page lots of people with the same message.
[46:18.540 --> 46:23.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, there, there, there are these people walking around Brooklyn somewhere that supposedly will get paged when God comes.
[46:23.420 --> 46:24.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, that's right, yeah.
[46:24.520 --> 46:26.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, you know, how do you do that?
[46:26.320 --> 46:27.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what people want to know.
[46:27.360 --> 46:28.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: They want to know how to do things like that.
[46:28.440 --> 46:28.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: God knows.
[46:29.200 --> 46:31.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly, but we want to know, too, you know?
[46:31.620 --> 46:33.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you gotta do, uh, hack heaven.
[46:33.600 --> 46:34.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess so.
[46:35.460 --> 46:37.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have a serious answer for us, do you?
[46:37.640 --> 46:38.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, no, I don't.
[46:38.900 --> 46:39.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[46:39.420 --> 46:40.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's move on to the next phone call.
[46:40.800 --> 46:42.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[46:42.100 --> 46:42.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[46:42.800 --> 46:44.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi, I'm calling from Connecticut.
[46:44.480 --> 46:45.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Connecticut, are you listening to us on real audio?
[46:46.140 --> 46:47.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yes, I was.
[46:47.300 --> 46:47.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-oh.
[46:48.100 --> 46:48.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: What happened?
[46:49.060 --> 46:55.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, well, I was until a moment ago when, um, something happened with my computer and it just locked up.
[46:55.860 --> 46:56.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[46:56.300 --> 46:57.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I had to reboot.
[46:57.360 --> 46:58.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's your computer, you think?
[46:58.220 --> 46:59.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I think it was my machine, yeah.
[46:59.980 --> 47:01.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: It could be one of those Pentagon viruses.
[47:01.560 --> 47:03.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true, the Pentagon's not happy with us.
[47:03.400 --> 47:03.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.
[47:04.160 --> 47:04.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[47:04.260 --> 47:14.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, um, prior to that, it was coming through loud and clear, pretty good quality, um, very smooth, um, and I compared it to the radio and there was just maybe half a second or less of delay between the two signals.
[47:14.960 --> 47:15.140]  Uh-huh.
[47:15.280 --> 47:21.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, and I was hoping that we could do a little net feedback, but, um, that didn't work out because now I'm still rebooting and, uh...
[47:21.420 --> 47:23.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, yeah, I hear Windows coming up.
[47:23.360 --> 47:23.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, unfortunately.
[47:24.240 --> 47:24.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[47:25.160 --> 47:30.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, actually, that would be, uh, kind of cool if somebody out there wants to try that with us from some other part of the world.
[47:30.480 --> 47:36.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it would just take me a minute to log back on and load the ISP and then log on to, uh, the site.
[47:36.320 --> 47:37.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, I didn't know where you were.
[47:38.060 --> 47:41.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: You weren't giving out the, uh, the URL that often, and I assumed it was...
[47:41.500 --> 47:48.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you see, the reason we're not giving out the URL is because the only people that would hear us doing that are people that are listening to us anyway, so there's no real point in doing that, is there?
[47:48.760 --> 47:55.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yeah, although people listening to the radio could log on to their ISP and then know immediately to go to 2600.
[47:55.880 --> 48:03.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, except, you know, while that's fine and dandy, we want people who aren't listening to the radio to be using this right now so that we get people from other parts of the world to listen.
[48:03.860 --> 48:04.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right, right, right.
[48:04.860 --> 48:06.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see that point.
[48:06.180 --> 48:06.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see that point.
[48:07.020 --> 48:07.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[48:07.240 --> 48:08.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a very cool experiment.
[48:09.100 --> 48:12.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I, I, uh, like the real audio in general.
[48:12.440 --> 48:15.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it's very powerful technology, and I've been very impressed with it.
[48:15.880 --> 48:23.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just, uh, got the 3.0 player, the free one, and I, I'd like to hear the upgrade version that they sell you for, what, like 30 bucks or something.
[48:23.680 --> 48:29.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, supposedly it gives you enhanced buffering and you get, uh, ISP and quality over a 28.8 modem.
[48:29.580 --> 48:36.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: And there, there are other, uh, types of, uh, of methods of listening to, to radio-type broadcasts besides real audio.
[48:36.020 --> 48:38.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, do you not have any offhand, Fiber?
[48:38.200 --> 48:40.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, for live streaming audio?
[48:40.740 --> 48:43.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, live or even playing back, uh, something that's, that's pre-recorded.
[48:44.020 --> 48:46.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, well, there's a million ways to record and play back something pre-recorded.
[48:46.740 --> 48:47.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: What else is, what, what else?
[48:47.880 --> 48:48.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that was live.
[48:48.780 --> 48:50.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: As far as live, um...
[48:50.600 --> 48:51.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know there's others out there.
[48:51.480 --> 48:54.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're just not as, as, uh, as readily advertised.
[48:54.840 --> 48:55.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, Streamworks.
[48:56.260 --> 48:56.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Streamworks.
[48:57.020 --> 48:57.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[48:57.640 --> 48:57.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Shockwave.
[48:58.020 --> 49:02.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Does the Shockwave do, um, does the Shock do, um, audio as well as video streaming?
[49:03.140 --> 49:11.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, actually, um, I think the new Shockwave does, uh, supports an audio feature, but I don't think it's true streaming as much as real audio is.
[49:12.040 --> 49:16.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I said the real audio is the most impressive one, and, and it was easy to set up.
[49:16.240 --> 49:18.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: It, it installed without any problems.
[49:18.440 --> 49:19.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was small.
[49:19.380 --> 49:24.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: It, um, you know, it, it just booted right up and just started working without any complaint, really.
[49:24.460 --> 49:29.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, um, you know, um, I, I think that it's, uh, a really powerful technology.
[49:29.600 --> 49:32.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I, I like, like the Pacifica feed that I can get now.
[49:33.000 --> 49:37.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, you can just dial up and you can put on the Pacifica news and, and be listening to that in the background.
[49:37.800 --> 49:37.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[49:37.940 --> 49:39.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: www .pacifica.org.
[49:39.480 --> 49:45.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Writing letters at the same time, you know, it's like, it's, it's, everything is, I forgot I was on the net the other day.
[49:45.180 --> 49:45.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was just working.
[49:45.960 --> 49:47.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was like, am I on the net or not?
[49:47.440 --> 49:50.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, what is this that was so integrated into what I was doing?
[49:51.000 --> 49:52.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sir, are you, are you booted up yet?
[49:52.780 --> 49:54.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, you know, I'm not.
[49:54.160 --> 49:54.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not.
[49:54.620 --> 49:56.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're gonna, we're gonna move on to another phone call because we're running out of time.
[49:56.980 --> 49:57.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: But thanks for calling.
[49:57.660 --> 49:58.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you, Emmanuel.
[49:58.360 --> 49:58.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[49:58.800 --> 49:59.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye.
[49:59.720 --> 50:01.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, let's see who else is on the net here.
[50:01.760 --> 50:02.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[50:02.260 --> 50:02.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[50:02.780 --> 50:03.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[50:04.520 --> 50:05.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, San Diego, California.
[50:05.700 --> 50:06.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: San Diego.
[50:06.440 --> 50:06.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[50:07.200 --> 50:07.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[50:07.760 --> 50:09.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you're listening to us over the net right now.
[50:09.940 --> 50:10.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[50:10.460 --> 50:13.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you hold the phone up to the, uh, to the, to the computer?
[50:13.600 --> 50:15.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, it's, um, buffering, actually.
[50:15.340 --> 50:15.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's buffering.
[50:15.940 --> 50:16.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[50:17.020 --> 50:17.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[50:17.700 --> 50:18.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh...
[50:18.220 --> 50:18.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Zero percent.
[50:18.960 --> 50:19.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry?
[50:19.580 --> 50:21.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: At zero percent for about two seconds or so.
[50:22.200 --> 50:22.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[50:23.300 --> 50:25.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, how is the sound quality out there?
[50:25.280 --> 50:25.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's really good.
[50:26.160 --> 50:26.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah?
[50:26.520 --> 50:27.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: No trouble connecting to us?
[50:27.840 --> 50:28.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, no.
[50:28.320 --> 50:36.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, at first, yeah, uh, I went to the radio directory at 20center.com, and it was saying that it was over, and thank you for participating.
[50:37.600 --> 50:40.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then I was on the phone with my friend, and he told me a different address, and I found it fun.
[50:41.080 --> 50:45.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of weird that they're saying goodbye already when they're not supposed to have that message up until nine o'clock.
[50:46.060 --> 50:47.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what's going on over there.
[50:47.280 --> 50:47.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[50:47.560 --> 50:50.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, okay, we're basically refining it all, you know.
[50:50.300 --> 50:52.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Next time we do this, we're going to be much better at it.
[50:52.380 --> 50:52.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I hope so.
[50:52.760 --> 50:53.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just watch and see.
[50:54.520 --> 50:54.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[50:55.000 --> 50:57.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, um, hopefully we'll be able to do this in the future as well.
[50:58.320 --> 50:58.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[50:58.740 --> 50:59.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for calling.
[50:59.380 --> 50:59.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[51:00.320 --> 51:01.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: San Diego, huh?
[51:01.340 --> 51:02.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, so far, everything has been from this country.
[51:03.380 --> 51:03.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[51:03.880 --> 51:04.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: You surprised by that?
[51:05.360 --> 51:05.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, no.
[51:06.420 --> 51:07.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not surprised.
[51:07.340 --> 51:07.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not either.
[51:08.380 --> 51:08.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[51:08.820 --> 51:09.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go back to New York.
[51:09.680 --> 51:09.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[51:10.080 --> 51:10.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[51:11.740 --> 51:12.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.
[51:12.760 --> 51:14.160]  [SPEAKER_22]: This is the Dali Lama.
[51:15.240 --> 51:16.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, okay.
[51:16.100 --> 51:17.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks for stopping in.
[51:17.280 --> 51:17.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[51:17.700 --> 51:18.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[51:18.480 --> 51:18.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[51:19.280 --> 51:19.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, go ahead.
[51:20.020 --> 51:20.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, okay.
[51:20.560 --> 51:20.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[51:20.820 --> 51:22.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Didn't get the NYNEX person cutting me off there.
[51:22.960 --> 51:23.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: No NYNEX people here.
[51:24.020 --> 51:24.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[51:24.520 --> 51:24.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[51:25.940 --> 51:27.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, what's on your mind?
[51:27.520 --> 51:30.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, they're talking about all these high-tech attacks on the net.
[51:31.380 --> 51:37.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: But lately, have you heard some government agency was trying to figure out a way to stop automobiles?
[51:37.660 --> 51:41.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's this device that shoots an electromagnetic pulse at the car?
[51:41.860 --> 51:42.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I've heard...
[51:42.740 --> 51:44.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is this the thing that shuts off your motor?
[51:44.540 --> 51:44.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[51:45.120 --> 51:46.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard about that, yes.
[51:46.200 --> 51:53.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm thinking, what happens if a person drives past your local phone switch, and they let, like, one of these things off?
[51:53.580 --> 51:55.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, uh, that's a consideration.
[51:56.000 --> 51:58.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't think it would happen in a case like that.
[51:58.420 --> 52:01.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: And imagine you're a techno-terrorist with one of these things running around.
[52:02.040 --> 52:02.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[52:03.220 --> 52:04.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, uh, that's interesting.
[52:04.160 --> 52:07.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's a story that I think you'd like, uh, and I know, Farber, you'll like this.
[52:07.660 --> 52:12.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: This comes out of, um, out of Tokyo, and it actually made it on the Associated Press.
[52:12.780 --> 52:25.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Within a few years, Japanese researchers say, roaches, cockroaches, carrying mini cameras or other sensors could crawl through earthquake rubble to search for victims or slip under doors on spy missions.
[52:26.060 --> 52:28.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or, or eat the people, I suppose, right?
[52:29.040 --> 52:35.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know exactly what people are thinking here, but they're actually thinking of using cockroaches to, uh, to spy on people.
[52:35.020 --> 52:38.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: On, on the Newt Gingrich thing, was this really a cell phone?
[52:38.940 --> 52:40.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or not a, of course, cordless phone.
[52:40.900 --> 52:42.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the old ones on 49.
[52:42.040 --> 52:47.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking, I was thinking that when the story first came out that maybe it was a cordless phone because obviously they don't, they don't move around as much.
[52:47.840 --> 52:51.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and they're not covered under that, uh, on the 86 law.
[52:51.460 --> 52:52.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I believe they're covered now, though.
[52:53.200 --> 52:54.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think so.
[52:54.360 --> 52:55.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think you can still listen on them.
[52:55.960 --> 52:57.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And even scarier...
[52:57.400 --> 52:57.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[52:57.840 --> 53:00.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: ...is the police can use the evidence in court.
[53:01.160 --> 53:06.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, I've, I've heard that, but I've also heard that that's, that's since been changed, so that that's not the case.
[53:06.300 --> 53:08.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, uh, that might vary from state to state.
[53:08.620 --> 53:10.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, that's, that's something else to look into.
[53:11.920 --> 53:12.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway.
[53:12.500 --> 53:13.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, thanks for calling.
[53:13.480 --> 53:13.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, bye.
[53:13.920 --> 53:14.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, take care.
[53:14.780 --> 53:19.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: This, uh, cockroach story, really, I, I don't know whether to believe something like this or not, because this is something I saw on the net.
[53:19.540 --> 53:21.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm assuming that they're trained cockroaches.
[53:21.080 --> 53:22.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when you see things on the net...
[53:22.580 --> 53:24.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they, they, they must be pretty well trained.
[53:24.840 --> 53:30.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, before the crunchy critters are morphed, uh, researchers sedate them with carbon dioxide.
[53:30.600 --> 53:39.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pulse-emitting electrodes replace the insect's antennae, and 0.10-ounce microchips, about twice the weight of an American roach, replace the wings.
[53:39.780 --> 53:47.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, researchers send signals by remote control, stimulating the electrodes and making the roaches turn left or right and spring forward or backward.
[53:48.400 --> 53:53.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, robo-roaches survive several months, and they become less sensitive to pulses over time.
[53:53.560 --> 53:59.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: The difficulty is to really understand what is happening in the nervous system, says Swiss researcher Raphael Holzer.
[53:59.800 --> 54:03.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, circuitry aside, robo-roaches are still a lot like their unwired brethren.
[54:04.080 --> 54:08.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: They are a little bit smelly, but they look nicer when you put a little circuit on their backs and remove their wings.
[54:10.260 --> 54:13.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this is, this is what we're, uh, this is what we're heading for right now.
[54:15.100 --> 54:16.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, your mic was down.
[54:16.500 --> 54:16.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's what?
[54:16.980 --> 54:18.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like a great stocking stuffer, actually.
[54:18.960 --> 54:19.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[54:20.060 --> 54:20.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[54:20.860 --> 54:21.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be a good Christmas toy.
[54:21.800 --> 54:22.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Robo-roaches.
[54:22.760 --> 54:27.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, uh, any last, uh, callers on the net, please call us now because we're almost out of time.
[54:27.900 --> 54:30.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here's a letter from one of our loyal listeners, and this is something for you, Fiber.
[54:31.440 --> 54:33.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: NYNEX seems to be trying to pull a fast one.
[54:33.260 --> 54:34.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're Lifeline customers.
[54:35.140 --> 54:40.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, NYNEX has been consistently overcharging me, and I am a Lifeline customer, since 1990.
[54:40.160 --> 54:44.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: The average overcharge has been approximately $6.51 per month.
[54:45.080 --> 54:48.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Lifeline customers are entitled to a discount rate of a dollar per month.
[54:48.020 --> 54:51.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that's, uh, that's the, the service charge.
[54:51.840 --> 55:00.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, what this person needs help finding out is whether other NYNEX Lifeline listeners are being overcharged the same amount.
[55:00.800 --> 55:06.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: They should get a printout for their local call usage to see if they, too, are being charged for calls that they know they have not made.
[55:06.580 --> 55:08.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can call 890-1550 to get that.
[55:09.300 --> 55:13.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, any NYNEX customer is entitled to one free printout per year showing local usage.
[55:13.980 --> 55:16.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, uh, you hear anything about people being overcharged?
[55:16.600 --> 55:18.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not on, I don't know anyone on Lifeline.
[55:18.480 --> 55:19.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Lifeline is for people on welfare.
[55:19.960 --> 55:20.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[55:20.640 --> 55:23.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: For people that, uh, can't afford to pay a regular phone bill.
[55:23.840 --> 55:29.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: They can have a phone put in where they're given an allowance of, uh, you know, a flat rate of usage of life.
[55:29.160 --> 55:31.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: But imagine if they were all being overcharged the same amount.
[55:31.360 --> 55:34.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they would, they would never know unless they compared.
[55:34.600 --> 55:36.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, if you have Lifeline, we want to hear from you.
[55:36.880 --> 55:39.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us if you're being charged too much in your eyes.
[55:39.880 --> 55:41.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's see if we can get one more phone call from the net.
[55:41.600 --> 55:41.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[55:42.100 --> 55:42.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're on the air.
[55:42.500 --> 55:43.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from?
[55:43.380 --> 55:44.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, hi, from New Jersey.
[55:45.060 --> 55:45.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: New Jersey.
[55:45.580 --> 55:53.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I was able to just, uh, hear a few seconds at a time and it would go away and would come back again.
[55:53.560 --> 55:56.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds like your, your streaming is, is, uh, is a problem there.
[55:56.140 --> 55:56.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[55:56.640 --> 55:57.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: What, what kind of connection do you have?
[55:58.400 --> 56:00.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, PPP 28.8.
[56:00.540 --> 56:00.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[56:01.700 --> 56:03.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, there could be some sort of a connection problem.
[56:03.800 --> 56:06.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, with the net, whenever something goes down someplace.
[56:06.480 --> 56:07.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, who's your provider?
[56:07.600 --> 56:08.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, who's your provider?
[56:08.540 --> 56:09.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: In Jersey.
[56:09.600 --> 56:10.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's the name of the provider?
[56:11.440 --> 56:12.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: In Jersey.
[56:12.320 --> 56:13.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: In Jersey is the name of the provider?
[56:13.500 --> 56:13.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[56:14.120 --> 56:14.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[56:15.260 --> 56:15.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big provider.
[56:15.900 --> 56:17.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: That conversation could have gone on for quite a while.
[56:18.740 --> 56:20.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, uh, there might be...
[56:20.520 --> 56:21.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll, we'll try again.
[56:21.820 --> 56:25.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there might be a problem with, with them, but, uh, there might be a problem on our end, too.
[56:25.380 --> 56:29.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, uh, I can hear other, uh, real audio with no problems.
[56:30.160 --> 56:30.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[56:30.840 --> 56:33.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, again, this is our first time doing this, so...
[56:33.560 --> 56:34.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye, next week.
[56:35.160 --> 56:35.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[56:35.800 --> 56:47.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you've been listening to us on the net, please email us, OTH at 2600.com, and give us your feedback as to how it sounded to you and what kinds of problems you may have encountered.
[56:47.540 --> 56:53.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or if you didn't encounter any problems, we'd sure like to know that as well, because, you know, that's kind of neat to know when that happens.
[56:53.820 --> 56:56.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: For the future, I guess we'll try this again at some point.
[56:56.300 --> 56:58.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And thanks to all you New York listeners for your patience.
[56:58.980 --> 57:04.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: I pity people who have no computer whatsoever and no idea what we're talking about here, what we're trying to do.
[57:04.980 --> 57:06.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: But then would they be listening?
[57:06.620 --> 57:07.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, of course.
[57:07.680 --> 57:09.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of people without computers listen to this show.
[57:10.580 --> 57:11.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Taxi drivers, for instance.
[57:11.660 --> 57:11.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true, yeah.
[57:12.040 --> 57:12.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
[57:13.240 --> 57:16.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is to realize that the technology is not out of your reach.
[57:17.820 --> 57:22.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to bring it closer every week, and hopefully this is one other way to sort of link the two worlds together.
[57:23.800 --> 57:29.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: And eventually everybody will get some access somehow, and we'll all try to figure out how to do that.
[57:29.800 --> 57:35.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Emmanuel Goldstein for Phiber Optik, thanks everybody for participating, and we'll see you again next week.
[57:35.520 --> 57:38.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Until then, have yourselves a good week, I guess.
[57:39.040 --> 57:39.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good night.