advertising mcdonald's spends 800 million dollars advertising their burgers etc and the federal
government spends about a million saying the stuff that dr barnard has been talking about so you'll
have to do a lot of this on your own folks barbara fisher thank you very much for engineering and tom
whalen thank you for producing and all of you for listening out there we'll be with you tomorrow
good night
the coalition to free mumia abu jamal invites you to an evening of jazz and poetry
for mumia on monday january 20th at aaron davis hall 135th street and convent avenue on the city
college campus thrilled to the sultry sounds of songstress cassandra wilson jose filipiano's
worcestra includes poets amina and amiri baraka sonia sanchez sandra maria estevez and many many
more all proceeds go towards the legal appeal of mumia abu jamal still on death row with no justice
in sight that's monday january 20th aaron davis hall 7 30 p.m tickets available through ticket
master 212-307-7171 or call the coalition at 212-465-3109 it's 1997 time to free mumia
right now in wbai new york it's time for a historical edition of off the hook
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off the wall i cut myself while shaving now i can't make a call
it couldn't get much worse but if they could they would
for the best expect the words i hope that's understood
and a special good evening to everyone
and a special good evening to everyone this is off the hook the program that comes to you every
week at this time talking about high technology computer hackers telephones and all the fun things
that happen with technology in ours and other people's lives and something rather interesting
is happening with us tonight here on this radio program we're broadcasting around the world not
just to the small area of new york city in connecticut new jersey long island all that kind of thing
no no we're going all over the place on the phone with us right now is manos the technician who has
set all this up and uh manos are you with us yes i am okay how are things going is everything uh set up
so far so good we just started uh so so far everything is fine okay those of you who are
listening from all different parts of the world uh continue listening that's that's what you that's
what you should do at this point you can call us up and tell us where you're calling from
and uh i guess we'll just we'll pretend this is a normal show so that nobody gets too confused
now how many people can listen at once manos uh up to 40 people 40 people okay so it doesn't sound
like very much but when you consider these are 40 people that ordinarily would not have been able
to listen to the show at all uh it is something when you consider what the bandwidth constraints
of the internet are hopefully if everything goes well today we'll go for more than 40 people that's
right who knows we can go for 40 000 people someday it's uh it's all new technology that we're
playing with here so let's see how it works out okay thanks very much for the help and uh if
there's any any uh problems or anything well you know how to get a hold of us sure all right and uh
we have a couple of really uh interesting and fun things that have been going on probably the most
fun has been this uh this whole cellular phone call business uh coming from florida i don't know how
many people saw the new york times today but this uh this was a full page ad in the new york times
from our friends over at omnipoint now fiber you you're very familiar with omnipoint yes i'm a very
satisfied customer all right well we've had some some funny uh um happenings with them over the
past few weeks but i think it's getting better yeah last week we had you coming up from uh from
downtown the week before that we were trying unsuccessfully to call you on an only point phone
but i don't know i guess i guess they're starting to get a little bit bigger anyway full page ad this
must have this must have cost me a pretty penny full page ad in the new york times that's that's a lot
dear mr speaker if you'd rather not have your phone conversation overheard and printed word for
word in the newspaper next time use an omnipoint wireless phone instead of a cellular phone that's
just really rubbing salt into the wound isn't it yeah what you say on a traditional cellular phone
is strictly between you the person you're talking to and whoever might be listening in happens to
lawyers bankers brokers cfos ceos and everyone in between not just people in buckingham palace or in
capitol hill so in the interest of privacy confidentiality and security we'd like to tell
the world about omnipoint a new 100 digital wireless phone system blah blah blah um i guess
what they say is is is true as far as security but is it the only secure way of making a cellular phone
call the only secure way well it's the easiest way to but there's digital digital cellular that already
exists oh no that's not the same there is no encryption at all in uh the current uh current digital
cellular that uses the the damp system uh-huh well there's something that they sort of refer to as
encryption but it's not not really much of any encryption at all um the uh gsm technology that
omnipoint uses and same technology that's that's being used in europe and parts of asia other more
advanced parts of the world yeah the other more advanced parts of the world hi there europe and asia
glad to have you with us um that gsm technology actually uses uh real data encryption it uses an
encryption algorithm known as a5 and uh it's not some simple silly little exclusive or kind of thing
like they do in in digital cellular um it's actually full-fledged protection and of course the um
wallet while a certain degree it's left to the discretion of the carrier like say omnipointer
or um whoever else um it it's certainly a a farsight better than than anything that's being
done right now to uh protect the privacy of your uh wireless communications so now let's let's get
the story straight uh some some nice elderly people down in florida just happened to be listening in
right to a cellular phone call by none other than newt gingrich and they just happened to be active
democrats that were listening in on this and brought it to their congressperson who then released it to
the press and denied that he did that right that's is that the story as far as i understand in fact
right here in the middle of the story it says it all seems unlikely that this unassuming couple from
northern florida who just happen to be politically active democrats would eavesdrop on a high level
questionably appropriate republican conversation and tell about it but that is exactly what happened mr
turner said aha who's saying it's unlikely is that the reporter saying that or is that just common
sense or what uh mr turner is larry turner is the couple's lawyer i see so the couple's lawyer is
saying it's all unlikely but believe us anyway yeah believe believe it or not that's what happened this
is interesting because this is the first it comes from a really strange place but it's it's the first
real test of the bizarre law that makes it illegal to listen in on a public radio frequency to someone
having a phone call i mean gingrich should have known better you know he's got some technological
skill i take it because you know he knows some things about the internet but he doesn't know that
when he talks on this a regular cellular phone he's broadcasting whatever he's saying all over the
place right of course was it him that was on the phone it was not him oh it was somebody else okay
no the article says it was him well no but he was calling somebody oh he was calling it yeah what would
he be doing in florida doesn't make any sense unless that's something else he's up to
no and well i think that well i don't know if uh they were necessarily clear that he was the one
using the cell phone in florida or maybe he was calling people in florida sounds like have a cell
phone that's probably what happened and they heard him on a landline that's hard to protect that's
hard to protect yourself right other you know idiots that you're talking to who walk around with
cellular phones right you know unencrypted and all that kind of thing so uh yeah i guess it wasn't his
fault he just sort of got trapped into this thing but it's the first real test of this crazy law are they
going to prosecute these people are they going to send them to prison how do you know oh it doesn't
sound like it from the article because they technically according to all the republicans
out there they violated the federal wiretap law which technically they did it's illegal to turn on
your radio and tune to 800 megahertz and listen to cellular phone calls well then they're setting
themselves up because the way the article closes it says that it's a hobby for them and they pick up all
kinds of transmissions and bought a newer more powerful unit over christmas yes and when they
asked the uh the husband what the range was he said to the horizon well that's actually not a very
big range you know i'd like to get things beyond the horizon yeah i guess that's just a term yeah i
don't see them i mean this is this is great they they can't put these people away you know they can't
lock up a middle-aged elderly whatever couple for listening to the radio it's the best test i could
think of they'd throw away hackers with without any hesitation and you know not many people would
would feel any kind of uh i don't know sympathy for that but these people this is great you know
it's finally a test of how ridiculous the law is yeah but these are sickeningly nice people yeah the
guy claims that it was his civic duty to tell people yeah well where do they find these people i don't
know i don't know but if they hadn't told anybody we wouldn't be having this discussion
that's true so and omnipoint wouldn't have a full page ad yeah yeah and your rates are going to go
up because you know that full page ad is going to cost them a lot of money if anything we should get
more subscribers and the rates would go down that's the thought that's the theory yeah you know is it
going to work that way all right what about this beeper thing you hear about this the beeper thing
hundred thousand pager users on the sky tell oh that's right yeah we're hit with a non-stop
barrage of beeps and wrong numbers for about a half hour last thursday because of a coding error yep that's
according to the company about 100 000 of their 1.5 million users were affected now this is the
interesting part they said a new customer was mistakenly given a code used by sky tell to send
news headlines as a personal pin number when that pin number was activated it went to all the customers
of the headline service triggering beeps and messages across the country then customers began phoning the
numbers on their pager screens thus reactivating the pin number and generating even more
messages the pin number was taken offline when engineer but when engineers tried to restore the
headline service more erroneous messages were broadcast for about five minutes now this is the
first time anything like this has ever happened what's up with this pin number i mean that's all it is
when they broadcast these headline use services is a pin number that anybody could be assigned
well that all depends on how um i'm assuming it's an alphanumeric uh paging service obviously if they
get news yeah but yeah i guess i guess it is that's what it sounds like so what could somebody do with
this knowledge as far as as being able to uh say transmit something with uh a forged pin well if
the if a phone if a phone number was assigned to uh one of these broadcast pins as it was in this case
then you'd be able to uh send pages to everybody that subscribes to that service that would be
something wouldn't it yeah if you were into uh shady marketing or something yeah certainly get the
message across really quick i'd say so definitely all right let's um let's move on actually i have i
have a really funny thing here that i like to read but uh let's let's see if anybody is out there from
the internet first okay phone number for for radio listeners 212-279-3400 those of you on the net you
already have a a number to call and uh give us a a phone call see who's out there and uh see what our
our range is today we have uh remember if you're calling from some crazy place you know some other
country or something like that it's not gonna cost that much we don't pick up the phone until we put
you on the air so if you just want to say hello from you know albania or something that's fine you
know it's only gonna cost you you know a week's salary or something but it'll be worth it right i think
so okay let's uh let's see who's out there good evening where are you calling from uh bend oregon
oh bend oregon yep and you're listening to us live on the web is that right i'd like to be
it isn't quite working right it isn't working right tell us what's happening and why do i hear
my voice in echo uh might be my phone okay well that's kind of kind of are you really in oregon
yes you are okay then how did you okay explain what's going on what's what is the problem okay
basically when i uh click on the link on tki's home page uh-huh uh it uh will bring up the real
audio player and it says connecting to host phobos okay and then it uh times out saying
that it isn't a valid host really yeah but it isn't uh it doesn't give the fully qualified
name it just says phobos doesn't say uh phobos.tki.net okay well i suggest you keep trying
because undoubtedly the people that are running this will hear this and are scrambling about
to fix it hopefully manos the technician yes manos the technician is probably uh analyzing this
problem even as we speak okay great we'll check in with him and see what's going on yeah do you have
a west coast uh broadcast uh not not as of yet this would be it okay anything outside new york
okay all right well have a good evening you too okay bye i still don't know why my voice was echoing
like that i mean it can't yeah i guess it could be his phone right i suppose yeah all right well
let's let's hope that gets uh that gets fixed pretty soon here's something that um that i think
you'll find interesting what's that you read the book takedown yeah uh parts of it you saw the book
takedown i saw the book all right you you know what it's about sure all right got this fellow win
schwartow down in florida well we can say some things about him too i guess but uh this is something
that he wrote it's a review of the book a review by winch schwartow of takedown by sutomo shimamora
and john markoff all right this is what he has to say markoff is a good guy and we get along well
i that says it all right there no it doesn't there's a lot more to it but let's uh let's listen in
here i i know and like sutomo so i know and like sutomo and respect his capabilities i like thrillers
i like technical books i look forward to reading his book on a recent plane trip however takedown is
a 300 page tome with 280 pages of excruciatingly unnecessary minutia here's his story sutomo wants
to spend the winter skiing in tahoe his computer gets hacked and he takes it personally he reluctantly
returns to san diego to rollerblade around miramar lake he drives through heavy snow eats french fries
and picks up his quasi-girlfriend at san francisco airport after she hiked the peaks in nepal sutomo
eats fish tacos at rubio's he drives his acura to his beachfront condo and plays with his home
computer network to find out what the hacker did sutomo gets irritated he can't ski he gets hacked some more
and eats healthy food while watching his computer screen he discusses his future with julia while
erstwhile friend john gilmore loses her to him he eats thai food
sutomo puts together an anti-hacker team to trace down the intruder they write some software to do the
job he eats french fries but no burger he goes he goes to a conference and sits in a hot tub eating
sutomo tells us it's a wonder this guy isn't 400 pounds sutomo tells us about spelunking on princeton
university campus buildings he tells us what a smart guy he is he disses friends and acquaintances
he's very irritated he can't ski so he skis he discovered the ip spoofing attack he helps the we
have no security well prove they have no security one morning he wakes up with julia another day he
didn't have time to change his lycra you know that word l-y-c-r-a lycra lycra what does that mean
what does that mean spandex okay ah cross-country ski clothes so he doesn't have time to change them
okay he calls the fbi to aid in the great hacker hunt sutomo and julia eat lunch at the well mild
chinese scallops shrimp snow peas and kung pao chicken he writes more software to chase mitnick
mitnick continues to taunt sutomo markov joins the hunt he was hacked too sutomo watches mitnick's
movements on the net and then goes to dinner with julia at 10 p.m at a mexican restaurant
where carlos santana's father once played in a mariachi band he disses more friends or ex-friends
he and julia hate the holiday inn so they move in with dan farmer julia avoids a crisis sutomo hates
botany sutomo skates in circles while waiting for julia at the bottom of the hill after skating he and julia
went to samurai a japanese restaurant in sausalita without taking a shower the colorado supernet and
isp is apparently a victim of mitnick as well sutomo says that emmanuel goldstein and fiber optic live
in one of the internet's more seedy neighborhoods thought you'd like to know that sutomo angrily
tells his loyal aide never to use the word assume ever again john gilmore invites julia to a funky
60s style resort for the weekend she vacillates sutomo puts off the wired photographer he eats a
burrito in julia's antique mazda he gets funding from netcom to pursue the hacker allegedly mitnick
sutomo this is the well he likes the netcom guys uh-oh mitnick seems to be in raleigh north carolina
sutomo this is gte they do a lot of technical stuff step by step he calls the intruder an ankle
biter after borrowing equipment from sun they all pile into a shiny blue green mustang to go to a
brewery someone ate horseradish mashed potatoes sutomo and crew work late doing techie stuff they
nearly run out of caffeine sutomo titles a chapter you lamers he gives robert almost six dollars for
breakfast sutomo eavesdrops on net conversations between mitnick and an israeli ally reading other
people's email as the highlight of this book tired sutomo and friends go to hobies and eat veggie
burgers and fruit smoothies they sleep in julia's car sleeping bags cover them sutomo calls gte
engineers bozos he tells us about mitnick's upbringing and brushes with the law then he disses
mitnick's skills as a hacker markoff joins sutomo to eat at bucky's a vc hangout and restaurant
was that vietcong that's what i was thinking okay he tells he tells sutomo his soup is getting
cold sutomo dishes sutomo this is pie of the well pie is one of their administrators they eat at
round table pizza sutomo and telco engineers play a game of battleship and figure mitnick really is
in raleigh he flies to raleigh in first class and discovers someone put apples and bananas in his day
pack he wears his birkenstock sandals to the frozen east coast in winter no socks either julia almost goes
to denver instead of raleigh her weekend with john did not go well sutomo this is the fbi to make them
look foolish on the trail of mitnick and raleigh they stop at a 7-eleven for coffee they get close
but the feds play a turf game julia shows up and wakes sutomo gently after a snooze they meet markoff
at the sheridan restaurant julia eats a white bread club sandwich sutomo ate grilled cheese markoff ate a
chicken breast sandwich andrew nearly blows the investigation more fbi agents arrive they eat
a ragazzi's the bread was fresh the salad was strictly iceberg the fbi and markoff and sutomo go after
mitnick the fbi figure out john markoff is with the new york times he splits the fbi yells at sutomo
what's your agenda they are suspicious of his motivations while waiting for warrants for mitnick
julia gets hungry she buys subway heroes for all they play more warrant games get ready to strike
and order in chinese food they wait andrew screws up again the fbi locate mitnick using direction
finders and cell freaking they bust in on mitnick mitnick vomits on his living room floor
in court mitnick tells sutomo he respects his skills sutomo and julia spend the day in their
hotel room they go out to dinner i think sutomo got the girl i just saved you 24.95
takedown by sutomo shimamora with john markoff all right well that that applause is for win
short house somewhere in florida well you have some things to say about i think oh yeah uh he's an
idiot but i think so that's besides the point well now you might say that but uh you say that people
don't believe what he says well i i got some some information to uh to prove otherwise well it's not
to say that people don't believe a lot of the crazy stuff he talks about about herp guns and space
aliens and things but he's um a lot of people who uh are actually uh in the industry from what i
understand and have been for some time don't really uh give this um uh used car dealers slash
private investigators slash whatever else person from florida very much credit uh-huh well congress
does and so does the defense department listen to this a defense department panel in an unusually
strident report recommended three billion dollars of additional spending over the next five years to
improve the security of the nation's telecommunications and computing infrastructure warning of a possible
electronic pearl harbor and we know where that phrase came from oh that's one of winch wortels right
there warning of a possible electronic pearl harbor the task force appointed by the defense science
board also said the pentagon should seek the legal authority to launch get this counter-attacks
against computer hackers there is a need for extraordinary action the board's task force
on information warfare defense that's another one of his phrases stated in a report that was quietly
released on friday current practices and assumptions it said are ingredients in a recipe for a national
security disaster the report predicts that by the year 2005 attacks on u.s information systems by
terrorist groups organized criminals and foreign espionized agencies are likely to be widespread
three billion dollars they're going to uh pour into something dealing with this and they want to they
want to actually use this this is this is the interesting part um dwayne andrews a former assistant
defense secretary for command control communications and intelligence said in an interview that current law
doesn't permit counter-attacks against computer hackers he said he would like to see the law changed
to allow the pentagon to respond by injecting the attackers computers with a polymorphic virus that
wipes out the system and takes it down for weeks these people watch way too many movies i think they're
watching tv yeah and they're i don't know what they're fantasizing about but can you imagine the
pentagon not like striking at computer hackers and injecting viruses into our systems they'll be
egging the kids on yeah i think so i think a lot of you know 14 and 15 year olds out there might see that
as a challenge yeah i i mean i think a lot of people would actually all right let's uh see who
else is out there let's see if our our real audio uh experiment tonight is working uh our phone numbers
are in the appropriate places if you're listening to us now in new york 212-279-3400 you're listening
to us from someplace else call the number that's on your screen all right let's see who's out there
good evening you're on the air hi where are you calling from atlanta georgia atlanta georgia are are
you getting us uh unreal audio yes no we are not you're not getting us on real audio no okay well
you know like i said it's a new technology all right but it's not that new well i don't know i
don't know we're gonna find out what the problem is we're gonna we're gonna call our technician and
find out what's going on oh are we gonna ever call him have you uh have you heard anything of
the show no it's giving me an error 22 error 22 yes all right we're gonna we're gonna check into
this for you all right stay stay by your computer okay all right thanks for calling sure uh this is this is
an embarrassment but at least we're being embarrassed only in new york that's true you
know at least well we're being embarrassed in name over the net but not by the sound of us not
knowing what we're doing so let's uh let's give uh manos the technician uh a shout out here okay we got
the dial tone there and uh what is that number oh yes
okay we're uh ringing up live now hello hey manos yes uh we're getting some complaints from around
the world saying that uh nobody can hear us uh do you have any idea why that would be i have no idea
right now we have about 20 people connecting and listening to us all right well one person said that
he got an error about this machine called phobos saying it didn't exist it was a small problem that
got fixed uh astronauts uh they complained okay another person said he got an error 22
please i just heard about it i don't know i'm gonna check more about okay if you're out there
right now and you're listening to us on the net and you actually can hear us we ask you to call now
so that we can we can know that somebody out there is listening all right thanks manos and uh let us
know if anything else happens okay all right and uh our phone number is two and two two seven nine three
four four hundred but not for you people listening over the internet because then you'll just get
weeded in with all the new york people so let's go to one of those new york calls and see what's
going on out out here good evening you're on the air well you got to speak up yes well
hi guys how you doing last week i heard you talking about army point i know something about it
because i've been to some of their sites i know a friend who works for them they're putting up a
lot of small sites they only have about two to three block range maybe up to a mile
the sites they're running they're using uh 13 db gain antennas and they're running about 100
watts of erp okay and uh totally uh time domain basically a time domain and then they go out
the t1 lines up to the main hub and in manhattan they're not a long line yet that basically they're
just putting up all this stuff right now they got about a two-year building project really two years
it's going to take two years for them to uh well because the first thing they got to do they got
to go out pick these locations put them on top and all this stuff goes in apartment buildings or
they don't want to go higher than 100 feet above ground they don't want to go too high or basically
don't appear with another cell site they want to stay between 90 to 100 feet above ground they got
to rent the sites and then they got their uh real estate department going out and then they got to
get a t1 line from the site they're going to buy a t1 line and bring them all the way to their main hub
does that sound uh reasonable to you fiber yeah well actually considering all that i think it's
remarkable that they've been able to get it to the point that it's been 90 to 100 feet above street
level that's not very high you know what height that's true but where are these where are these
antennas some of these small antennas you can't even see them some of them are are hidden they're
just painted in such a way that they look like they look like little beam they look like little
round discs basically they're a lot smaller than the cellular antennas a lot less noticeable because
they're on a higher frequency they go on top of three and four story buildings or some of these
things will be put on top next to a advertising sign the whole cell site is only about four feet
long and about two and a half feet width and weighs about a thousand pounds to all the electronics
they're being made by two companies ericsson and uh and some other company in in somewhere in europe
is making them can't think of the name right now and basically the thing has three transmitters three
receivers then they get the digital equipment and it's h1 is tied into a t1 line everything is t1 line
going into a central heart located in new jersey okay and from there the second thing i wanted to
make a comment to you guys you were saying now that we're going to get competition the reason why we
that's not totally true don't think it's just because we had at&t and all these big guys at one
time up to recently we had all kinds of regulations that wouldn't allow all of this going on now because
right now there's a blur between what's a phone company and what's not the phone company the worst
thing that we had was regulation because many years ago the phone company could not have computers
in your telephone they separated they would not allow at&t or local phone companies to
to have computers part of your telephone are you aware of that well yeah for a long time you
couldn't plug modems directly into the wall either well that wasn't because only because at&t wanted it
everybody think they were totally in 1959 there was a decision made that that at&t would not allow you
would not would not be allowed to have any kind of computing power in any of their equipment
in home describers because they because ibm was afraid and it was put through congress and due to
that back at&t said well nobody's going to be able to connect up to our system a lot of a lot of the
situations in which we did not get technology or technology is five or ten years behind the times we
would have a lot of this up five years ago or ten years ago if we did not have government coming up with
all of these crazy regulations it's who can carry services this was very protective at one time uh radio
common carrier a local phone company could not do dispatching and a radio common carrier could not
handle telephone calls this was all written into the act of 1934 and now that we have broken down
all of this we've done it one of the biggest mistakes i think this country has ever made was
break up the phone company because when you speak to people who are in the business they're finding it
almost impossible to raise the capital to do all of it to do a lot of this stuff it takes massive
amount of capital how many points going to be about a three billion dollar project just in the
new york area yeah but would you prefer to have uh a monopoly one company doing everything like we
did well it was pretty good up it was pretty damn good up to a certain point we had pretty good
service that's not the point though i mean if it's if it's something that's uh you know all
encompassing it's one company you go to them for everything and there's no competition
you know i think that sort of uh overrides how convenient it is oh i would agree but you see i will agree
the only thing we should do is not have government break it up
we shouldn't let government prevent people from doing it we could have had at&t
at the same time if people wanted to compete with them we would do what we did was we broke up at&t
all we had to do is just change the law and tell at&t you can't stop people from competing
they went too far and now we're we're now hurting for what's happening to aol and all of those but
there isn't enough resources out there for one company for these companies to do it
which is my opinion okay well thanks for calling
right away splint is not going to be online for the next three four years because they've
really made a big blunder in their technology okay well we'll consider that then we'll keep
that in mind thanks for calling thanks for the opinions we could talk about this for hours
definitely but uh uh does it kind of remind you of all the people in russia that that think that
communism was better well you know they think it was better after they try something else for a
little while and doesn't quite work out immediately yeah right and that's that's the case here
things you know actually i think things are working out to a degree in some ways
but uh you know i don't think the old system was was the right way to go no matter what
all right let's see uh let's see if anybody's on the internet good evening you're on the air
where are you calling from uh bend oregon again i got a solution for you okay are you getting through
yes i am i got it right now oh great okay i turned it down so you don't echo though okay as bad
well right now you're the only person calling in from the net so uh either either people out there
don't want to make phone calls or maybe they're using their phone line to listen to us i don't know
oh they're probably just shy they might be shy too don't don't be shy it doesn't hurt you know
if you're out there please give us a call on the number the number is on your don't say the number
the number is on your screen right uh as you're as you're listening it is yes okay so uh just look
at that now if you're listening to us now on the net even if you're in another country our country code
is one and uh that's a problem whatever you use to go to dial internationally give us a call so
that we can know that you're out there uh okay what do you have for us okay what you do is uh from
your real audio player go to file open location and then type p n m colon forward slash forward
slash phobos dot tki dot net forward slash live test dot ra why do they have to type that why can't
they just click on the button uh because what happened is it looks like tki dot net uh didn't
fully qualify their domain name and so it would work internally for them because you know phobos is
mapped to phobos dot tki dot net on their internal uh network but uh so when they test it over there
it's working fine but anybody else outside the network it won't work right that's just brilliant
because the rest of the net doesn't know what phobos is right well now assuming that they're listening
to you right now and hearing you say this uh will they be able to fix this so that that's uh that's
no longer a problem oh they should be able to yes they just need to edit their uh dot rem file
okay fiber is there any instruction you can give over the radio to the people that are well one of
two things could be happening either um in the event that uh our friend from uh oregon uh has
reloaded the website which uh is he still there yes i am had uh have you reloaded since uh because
manos called in we spoke to manos actually we called him i heard that part yeah and uh he said that he
claims he fixed it anyway well i can go reload and see if he did okay all right try that we have
another call coming on the web so we're going to check that out all right thanks again you're
welcome take care good evening you're on the air where are you calling from uh just new jersey
okay well then you're you're in our listening area anyway right but i'm listening on the on the net
okay so you are getting us yeah i just clicked on the little uh listen to the show click here uh-huh
and uh it was my second try the first try it told me that there were too many people connected
okay and then the second time and it just it went right through went right through okay that's good
to hear thanks thanks for calling okay let's uh take another call from the net good evening you're
on the air where are you calling from columbia south carolina okay columbia and are you getting
us uh loud and clear on the net no i'm not that's why i'm calling you oh boy okay well you see you
understand this is this is technology in its infancy we're we're sort of figuring it all out right now
tell us what happened when you try connecting okay um it says my bandwidth is not fast enough to
receive it what are you connecting at um i'm connecting through compu serve into your website
compu serve yeah i couldn't get in any other way well what what kind of uh what what kind of
hardware do you have you have a um a 28 8 um is that a 28 8 or 14 14 4 would you be able to do
that with a 14 4 oh gee um that's kind of kind of tight it depends because i know that when you
download real audio player she might just have the wrong version of real audio player because when
you download it you could get the older version version 3.0 oh it's 3.0 yeah i don't think 3.0
supports 14 4 2.0 does yeah 2.0 does what you might want to try doing is going back to uh real
audio's website and getting version 2 you have enough time to do it okay even at 14 4 you can still
download it and uh and you know install it and listen to us for like the last maybe 10 minutes
of our show but you'll still be able to to do it i think how about going through compu serve is that
a problem you think that shouldn't be a problem okay okay i'll try all right good luck thank you
all right if anybody else is out there on the net please give us a call because uh we'd like to hear
from you um well here's a call just coming in right now let's see if this is a net person good
evening you're on the air where are you calling from yeah i'm calling from boston boston and how are we
coming in up there you're coming in very well okay well it's good to hear a positive report
uh did you have any trouble getting us oh no i just um clicked on them at first it wasn't working
i was getting the air 22 i looked it up it said it was um that um you may be going through your um
service provider may be going through a firewall not allowing it back in then i just tried a couple
more times and it it let it right on through and i could hear you fine okay great so it sounds like
the problem has been fixed yep so um all right well um uh what what should we ask these people now
we have them from all different parts of the world uh what have you what how much of the show
have you heard i just um it just started working for me about uh maybe six minutes ago and i was
just likey because it's pretty good now that you got this up in the air because i'm up here in boston
yeah and um i know a lot of people have heard about the show and want to hear it in different parts
of the world and it's of course kind of hard to get a radio station all over uh the country all over
the world in fact so this is one method of doing it and i don't know is it is it a lot of trouble
to go to to um to listen to this or do you think it's pretty simple no it's pretty simple i just
downloaded the new version is i'm all set uh-huh we're fine great all right well let's hope we can
do this on a regular basis yep all right everybody in boston take care bye and we have another net call
good evening you're on the air where are you calling from uh new york new york well you know you can
listen to us on the radio i am yeah okay well then call the other line because uh this is for
the net people boy can you believe that good evening you're on the air where are you calling
from uh new york new york you heard what i did to the last caller didn't you no you can't hang up on
me this is just sean eric eric knows who i am okay well it's coming in clear though it is coming in
yeah with a slight delay but um i'm listening to him my ear hand on the net but there's a slight delay
but it's coming in good okay uh there is a delay with real audio is there not yeah i think so
are you using delay on the panel well there is delay yeah we're on a six second delay here so
if i say something you won't hear for six seconds but i think there's a delay on top of that yeah
yeah it's like a little more delay too yeah but uh everything seems to be working then yes perfect
okay good cool it's good to know talk to you later thanks for calling no problem all right so uh things
seem to be working let's go back to new york take some new york phone calls good evening you're on the air
hello yes go ahead hi great um i dialed the regular number so i'm listening on the radio
yes i have a question but first i want to briefly introduce myself throughout the world especially
hopefully if people are listening in tibet you could become a world celebrity yes my name is mark
i'm in the bronx and you can categorize me as a mad genius uh my question is about an article i read
a number of years ago the new yorker a long long article about another mad genius who had nothing in his
life to do but in his basement assemble what at the time was the world's largest non-governmental
supercomputer for the purpose of determining pi to um as far as possible as as it was at the time in
terms of billions and billions of digits my question is are you familiar with this gentleman
i believe he uh is involved in mathematics and maybe a professor somewhere and if so do you think
you can recruit recruit him to join the hacker ranks and perhaps add his expertise to um the fun stuff
you guys do sir let me tell you when you've calculated pi to billions of digits you don't want human
interaction anymore it's it's something that's you know you've gone beyond that point really you
so you think his first love is pure abstract mathematics yes i think so with none of this fun cloak and
dagger uh stuff you guys are into he's completely binary and that's okay well again i i hope the
dalai lama heard me in quotes and take care bye all right take care you hear about this guy
calculating pi no but i don't know exactly what's so abstract about dividing the circumference by the
diameter it's pretty uh straightforward yeah but the thing is you can just keep doing it forever
um yeah that would happen imagine if it was just a regular you know imagine if it was four or
something yeah but then it wouldn't be a circle that's true but what if it was what if it was a
circle and it was you know in some world somewhere it must be possible okay they don't have these
they don't have these weird things going on all the time all right let's uh let's go back to the net
good evening you're on the air where are you calling from uh new york new york maybe i'm not
making myself clear okay i'll let you i'll let you say something anyway but are you listening to the to
the net or are you just listening to the radio well i'm right now downloading real audio okay you're
downloading real audio you're kind of late but okay at least you're trying which real audio you're
downloading uh the new version 3.0 right yeah all right hopefully next week uh well i don't know
if we're going to do this next week but we'll we'll try anyway i got a question for you yeah go ahead i
have a mush setup running from a home pc uh-huh which i've been warned is not a good idea um because
someone told me that some hacker is going to come along and basically just crack straight through it to my
files and just destroy me uh who told you that um friend of mine what's his name win by any chance
huh oh computer teacher uh okay um computer teacher they don't know what they're talking about
i mean what do you what do you have set up exactly i got pen mush have you ever heard of this what
it's a mush pen mush it's like a mud right yeah oh you mean mush not mush well it's a regional thing
some people pronounce it differently come on give the guy a break all right so he's got this thing
set out can a hacker destroy mush okay i don't know someone told me that it's possible for someone
to tell that straight to me and break through to my terminal to the internet hmm what exactly you're
running mush on is it like a linux box or something no no it's windows 95 with a windows 32 version of it
uh well there are certain ways of uh defeating security on windows 95 but only if you're
using microsoft networking are you using microsoft networking nope i have a local long island server
well then there's not a um a whole heck of a lot somebody's going to do to you
uh-huh all right you can you can breathe a little easier sir yeah continue downloading that program we
want to hear you on the net thanks for calling all right two and two two seven nine three four hundred is
our local phone number and you net people you know how to reach us we want to know if you're out
there and where you're calling from okay so far we've heard from oregon we've heard from south
carolina we've heard from boston and mush and new york and new jersey and places like that
we haven't heard anything overseas uh i guess i guess overseas is kind of hard right because to
listen to something real audio overseas there must be a lot of delays and things like that the people
over there just don't have what it takes to listen to us right now so there's no way they could be
calling us oh well i guess that's just sad or they're asleep yeah that's true you they got that
time difference thing going on well if anyone is out there from overseas we'd love to hear from you so
you know the number give us a call let's go back to new york good evening you're on the air
uh speak up okay well don't speak up then good evening you're on the air yeah hi i want to talk
about the scanner and the newspapers okay go ahead yes i'm sick hello yes go ahead okay isn't it a
federal offense to um tape uh tape conversations yes you know under the uh what was it the 1986 law
the uh electronic communications privacy act number yes number two this guy claims he just
bought a brand new scanner that could pick up the 800 band that's been two years ago yeah that seems
kind of odd how he was able to buy a scanner that could just do this right when you're in a car
scanning somebody don't you usually have background noise doesn't it break up the cell phone well it
depends if the person was driving yes if the person was standing around in a parking lot talking on a
cellular phone which many people do then obviously it's not going to go anywhere people claim they were
driving in the car driving around happened to be um scanning and oh they heard no no wait look at
the article fiber were they driving yeah they were driving they were in their car they were the car
driving i want to hear that tape i want to hear the background noise that's interesting that's very
interesting they've released the tape you know this to nobody i'll say this i've well okay no wait a
minute let me say it a different way don't say i know of people who have driven around in their cars
with with possible cellular listener things on on scanners and i've heard from them that it goes away
very quickly right right like in like a minute or two i didn't like saying it like that in a minute
i really didn't like saying that okay in a couple of minutes you usually lose the signal right
yeah that's what i'm told right and wouldn't it be background noise wouldn't it be very unclear
um there'd be all kinds of noise yes they claim they went to radio shack and they bought a scanner
i could pick up 800 megahertz there is a scanner you can buy a radio shack that's very easily modified
so they would have had to have modified the scanner oh but that they don't say they said oh we just
happen to go in the store we love to have scanners and we but you see while i while i see your point
i don't want to condemn these people at all for what they do i do except well except for the part
about you know trying to uh indict people based on what they say on the phone you know that's kind
of sleazy but as far as listening in you know i think anybody can do that yeah but do you take a
tape record usually and tape the conversations on a scanner well if i was to do something like that
i i wouldn't tell you and then you'll go to the media and to the to the new york times i think it'd be
really really funny though if somebody if somebody made tapes of all the conversations they could
hear and then say 10 years from now release it as an album because nobody would remember what they
said and you couldn't get sued that's a good idea yes what's the music you were playing before in
the background uh we were playing several things we were playing uh some folk implosion and some
happy hardcore type things from various other assorted bands okay have a great great show thanks for
calling thank you all right uh 212-279-3400 let's see if anybody is on the net right now good evening
where are you calling from don't seem to be calling from anywhere let's try this person over here good
evening hello are you on the air hi um i got a couple of questions go ahead well for instance what's
this mush mush i'm from brooklyn mush yes mush is uh mush is an offshoot of uh muds oh like the game yeah
okay it's something else to get addicted to yeah all right um and then there's that hi weirdo yeah
i agree with you he does that keep him away from normal people okay fine yeah um i just want to tell
my friend puppet master to take notes in case you can help me um i want to know is there way you can
randomly set off pagers with like i was on irc uh someone mentioned about oscillating a crystal
any truth to that um i i would i would tend to ignore most anything i hear on irc yes but um as
far as setting off pages that is a topic that's come up quite a few times yeah you know people want
to be able to page people i i guess with bogus or you know page lots of people with the same message
you know like there there are there are these people walking around brooklyn somewhere that
supposedly will get paged when god comes right that's right yeah yeah so you know how do you do that
that's what people want to know they want to do things like that god knows yeah exactly but we
want to know too you know well you got to do his uh hack heaven i guess so you don't have a serious
answer for us do you um no i don't all right let's move on to the next phone call good evening you're
on the air where you calling from hi i'm calling from connecticut connecticut are you listening to us
on real audio uh yes i was you oh what happened uh well i was until a moment ago when um something
happened with my computer and it just locked up okay and i had to reboot so it's your computer
uh i think it was my machine yeah one of those pentagon viruses that's true the pentagon's not
happy with us no yeah but um prior to that it was coming through loud and clear pretty good quality
um very smooth um and i compared it to the radio and there was just maybe half a second or less of
delay between the two signals um and i was hoping that we could do a little net feedback but um that
didn't work out because now i'm still rebooting and uh actually yeah i hear windows coming up
yeah unfortunately um actually that would be uh kind of cool somebody out there wants to try that
with us yeah i want a part of the world yeah it'll just take me a minute to log back on and load the
isp and then log on to uh the site but you know i didn't know where you were you weren't giving out
the uh the url that often and i i assume you see the reason the reason we're not giving out the url is
because the only people that would hear us doing that are people that are listening to us anyway so
there's no real point in doing that is there uh yeah although people listening to the radio
could log on to their isp and then know immediately to go to 2600 yes except you know while that's
fine and dandy we want people who aren't listening to the radio to be using this right now so that we
get people from other parts of the world right to listen right right i i see that point i see that
point yes it's a very cool experiment um i i like the real audio in general i think it's very powerful
technology and i've been very impressed with it i just uh got the 3.0 player the free one and i
i'd like to hear the upgrade version that they sell you for what like 30 bucks or something um
supposedly it gives you enhanced buffering and you get uh isp and quality over 28.8 modem and there
there are other uh types of uh of methods of listening to to radio type broadcast besides real
audio uh do you know of any offhand fiber uh for live streaming audio well live or even playing back
uh something that's that's pre-recorded oh there's a million ways to record and play back
something pre-recorded what else is what else what else live as far as live um i know there's
others out there they're just not as as uh as readily advertised oh yeah streamworks streamworks
okay shockwave doesn't shockwave do um doesn't shock do um audio as well as video streaming
um actually um i think the new shockwave does uh supports an audio feature but i don't think it's
true streaming as much as real audio is i said the real audio is the most impressive one that and and it
was easy to set up it it installed without any problems it was small it um you know it just
booted right up and just started working without any complaint really and um you know um i think
that it's uh a really powerful technology i like like the pacifica feed that i can get now you know
you can just dial up and you can put on the pacifica news and and be looking at the back
www.pacifica.org writing letters at the same time you know it's like it's it's everything is i
forgot i was on the net the other day i was just working it like am i in the net or not like what
is this it was so integrated into right what i was doing sir are you are you booted up yet uh you
know i'm not i'm not we're gonna we're gonna move on to another phone call because we're running
out of time but thanks for calling you emmanuel all right bye and uh let's see who else is on the
net here good evening you're on the air where are you calling from um san diego california san
diego yeah okay and you're listening to us over the net right now yes can you hold the phone up to
the uh to the to the computer uh it's um buffering actually oh it's buffering okay all right so uh
zero percent i'm sorry at zero percent for about two seconds or so all right so how is the sound
quality out there it's really good yeah no trouble connecting to us oh no well at first yeah
uh i went to the radio directory at 20 center.com and it was saying that it was over and thank you
for participating and then i was on the phone with my friend he told me a different address and i found
it fun that's kind of weird that they're saying goodbye already when they're not supposed to have
that message up until nine o'clock i don't know what's going on over there yeah well okay we're
basically refining it all you know next time we do this we're going to be much better at it
okay just just watch and see all right well um hopefully we'll be able to do this in the future
as well okay thanks for calling thank you san diego huh so so far everything has been from this
country yeah you surprised by that um no i'm not surprised i'm not i'm not either all right let's go
back to new york good evening you're on the air go ahead this is the dolly lava uh okay well thanks
for stopping in good evening you're on the air hello yes go ahead oh okay wow didn't get the
9x person cutting me off there no 9x people here no wow so what's on your mind um they're talking
about all these high-tech attacks on the net but lately have you heard some government agency was
trying to figure out a way to stop automobiles and it's this device that shoots an electromagnetic
pulse at the car uh i've heard is this the thing that shuts off your motor yeah i've heard about that
yes and i'm thinking what happens if the person drives past your local phone switch and they let
like one of these things off that's uh that's a consideration i don't i don't know what would
happen in a case like that and imagine you're techno terrorist with one of these things running
around uh-huh that's uh that's interesting well here's a story that i think you'd like uh and i know
the fiber you'll like this this comes out of um out of tokyo and it actually made it on the
associated press within a few years japanese researchers say roaches cockroaches carrying
mini cameras or other sensors could crawl through earthquake rubble to search for victims or slip
under doors on spy missions or or eat the people i don't suppose right i don't know exactly what
people are thinking here but they're actually thinking of using cockroaches to spy on people
on the new gingrich thing was this really a cell phone or not a cordless phone you know the old
ones on 40 i was thinking i was thinking that when the story first came out that maybe it was a
cordless phone because obviously they don't they don't move around as much yeah and they're not
covered under that uh on the 86 law i believe they're covered now though i don't think so i think
you can still listen on them and even scarier uh-huh is the police can use the evidence in court
well you know i've i've heard that but i've also heard that that's that's since been changed so
that that's not the case but uh that might vary from state to state so that's that's something
else to look into anyway all right well thanks for calling okay all right take care this uh cockroach
story really i don't know whether to believe something like this or not because this is something
i saw on the net i'm assuming that they're trained cockroaches well when you see things on the net
yeah they they must be pretty well trained uh before the crunchy critters are morphed uh researchers
sedate them with carbon dioxide pulse emitting electrodes replace the insects antennae and
0.10 ounce microchips about twice the weight of an american roach replace the wings
uh researchers send signals by remote controls stimulating the electrodes and making the roaches
turn left or right and spring forward or backward uh robo roaches survive several months and they
become less sensitive to pulses over time the difficulty is to really understand what is happening in the
nervous system says swiss researcher rafael holzer uh circuitry aside robo roaches are still a lot
like their unwired brethren they are a little bit smelly but they look nicer when you put a little
circuit on their backs and remove their wings yes this is this is what we're uh this is what we're
heading for right now i'm sorry mike was down it's what it sounds like a great stocking stuffer
actually uh-huh yeah yeah be a good christmas toy robo roaches all right uh any last uh callers on
the net please call us now because we're almost out of time here's a letter from one of our loyal
listeners and this is something for you fiber 9x seems to be trying to pull a fast one they're
lifeline customers um 9x has been consistently overcharging me and i am a lifeline customer since
1990 the average overcharge has been approximately six dollars and fifty one cents per month lifeline
customers are entitled to a discount rate of a dollar per month um let's see that's the the
service charge um what this person needs help finding out is whether other 9x lifeline listeners
are being overcharged the same amount they should get a printout for their local call usage to see if
they too are being charged for calls that they know they have not made you can call 890-1550 to get
that uh any 9x customer is entitled to one free printout per year showing local usage so uh you hear
anything about people being overcharged not on i don't know anyone on lifeline lifeline is for
people on welfare that's true for people that uh can't afford to pay a regular phone bill they can
have a phone put in where they're given an allowance of uh you know a flat rate but imagine if they
were all being overcharged the same amount and they would they would never know unless they compared
so if you have lifeline we want to hear from you tell us if you're being charged too much in your eyes
all right let's see if we can get one more phone call from the net good evening you're on the air where
are you calling from uh hi from new jersey jersey yeah i was able to just hear a few seconds at a
time and it would go away and would come back again sounds like your streaming is is uh is a problem
yeah what kind of connection do you have uh ppp 288 uh-huh uh there could be some sort of a
connection problem you know with net whenever something goes down someplace well who's your
provider yeah who's your provider in jersey well what's the name of the provider in jersey in jersey
is the name of the provider okay that conversation could have gone on for quite a while then all right
well uh there might be we'll try again yeah there might be a problem with with them but uh there might
be a problem in our end too well uh i can hear other real audio with no problems uh-huh okay well
again this is our first time doing this yeah bye next week all right yeah if uh you've been listening
to us on the net please email us oth at 2600.com and uh give us your feedback as to how it sounded to
you and what kinds of problems you may have encountered or if you didn't encounter any problems we'd sure
like to know that as well because you know that's kind of kind of neat to know when that happens uh for
the future i guess we'll try this again at some point and thanks to all you new york listeners for
your patience i pity people who have no computer whatsoever and no idea what we're what we're
talking about here what we're trying to do but uh but then would they be listening yes of course
lots of people without computers listen to this show and taxi drivers for instance yes of course
um the thing is to to realize that the technology is not out of your reach it's uh we're trying to
bring it closer every week and hopefully this is one other way to sort of link the two worlds
together and uh eventually everybody will get some access somehow and we'll i'll try to figure out
how to do that so manuel goldstein for fiber optic uh thanks everybody for participating and we'll see
you again next week till then have yourselves a good week i guess good night
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off
i cut myself while shaving now i can't make a call
it couldn't get much worse but if they could they would
don't expect
i hope that's understood
This is good, but I'm digging it now.
I'm digging it now.
I'm digging it now.
The Fred Ho Quartet, saxophonist Andrew Lamb, comedian Thelma Ramsey, Andean musician Juan Pepe Santana, the vocal group Bass Harmony, and Soweto Soleil from Zaire.
I'm Latrice Leed, and I'll be there.
That's Wednesday, January the 22nd at Wetlands, 161 Hudson Street.
Doors open at 7 p.m.
For more information, call Erico, 212-358-5866.
That's 212-358-5866.
And you're tuned to listener sponsor WBAI-FM in New York City.
The time now, in about 10 seconds, it'll be 9 o'clock.
Coming up at 9 o'clock, just here in New York City, not on the Internet.
Although we should figure out how to do that so tenants around New York can hear us in this struggle to save rent regulation.
It's 9 p.m., time for Housing Notebook.
8 o'clock, just here in New York City, not on the Internet.
9 o'clock, just here in New York City, not on the Internet.
9 o'clock, just here in New York City, not on the Internet.
10 o'clock, just here in New York City, not on the Internet.
10 o'clock, just here in New York City, not on the Internet.
10 o'clock in New York City, not on the Internet.
12 o'clock.
10 o'clock, just there in New York City, not on the Internet.
10 o'clock in New York City, not on the Internet.
10 o'clock, just here in New York City, not all the internet.
10 o'clock in New York City, not on the Internet, not on the Internet, not on the Internet.
10 o'clock in New York City, not on the Internet.