Off The Hook - 1997-02-25

[00:17.540 --> 00:20.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't do anything new.
[00:20.540 --> 00:24.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Only we have implemented our religion and our tradition in Afghanistan, nothing else.
[00:26.180 --> 00:29.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: WBAI meets the Taliban now in power in Afghanistan.
[00:30.220 --> 00:32.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: Tune in this Saturday from 3 to 4 p.m.
[00:33.160 --> 00:38.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: to hear part one of our exclusive interview with Brother Abdul Hakim Mujahid.
[00:38.220 --> 00:43.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's on Arab Voice Crescent Rising with myself, Barbara Nimri Aziz, and Mahmoud Ibrahim.
[00:43.600 --> 00:48.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Make a note to join us Saturday afternoon, March 1st, from 3 to 4.
[00:48.460 --> 00:56.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: An interview with Taliban on WBAI 99.5 FM, listener-sponsored radio in New York.
[01:04.550 --> 01:08.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And at 8 o'clock, this is WBAI New York.
[01:08.190 --> 01:09.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Time for Off the Hook.
[01:15.210 --> 01:19.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:20.450 --> 01:22.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself off shaving.
[01:23.030 --> 01:24.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I can't make a call.
[01:33.860 --> 01:35.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope that's understood.
[01:35.860 --> 01:36.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: But make me move!
[02:05.280 --> 02:06.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, good evening to everybody.
[02:06.600 --> 02:15.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein with another exciting edition of Off the Hook, where we talk about computers and telephones and the Internet and all kinds of fun things like that.
[02:15.320 --> 02:18.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, there was a story this week about, it sort of combined everything.
[02:18.940 --> 02:21.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Combined international intrigue with the world of hacking.
[02:22.080 --> 02:24.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: It had to do with Croatian hackers breaking into the Pentagon.
[02:24.990 --> 02:30.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, this one, this was kind of, like, buried in a couple of websites.
[02:30.280 --> 02:32.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You had to really search around, but it was out there.
[02:33.060 --> 02:50.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Three teenage computer hackers in Croatia broke Pentagon protection codes and copied classified files, copied highly classified files, from United States military bases, local media, and, uh, I'm sorry, from United States military bases, local media and school officials said.
[02:50.780 --> 02:52.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: They didn't copy anything from the local media.
[02:52.520 --> 03:02.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: While surfing the Internet on their home computer, the three high school students applied a search program and deciphered codes, barging into the database of several U.S.
[03:02.120 --> 03:07.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: military installations, according to the Zagreb Daily, uh, whose name I will not even try to pronounce.
[03:07.260 --> 03:13.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: The databases included those of the Anderson Nuclear Installation and an unnamed satellite research center.
[03:14.620 --> 03:30.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: This, uh, was reported on Fox News, on the Fox News website, and, of course, uh, it was later denied by the Pentagon, who said that the hackers had simply gotten into something in Guam, and it wasn't very, uh, uh, secretive at all.
[03:30.740 --> 03:32.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, depends who you believe here.
[03:32.940 --> 03:36.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, the break-in left a trace on the Internet, which was tracked down by the Pentagon.
[03:36.820 --> 03:37.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: The U.S.
[03:37.560 --> 03:46.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Defense Department contacted Croatian police through Interpol, demanding an investigation while local police searched the youngsters' apartments and confiscated their computer equipment.
[03:46.780 --> 03:47.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it nice how it works?
[03:48.220 --> 03:54.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Defense Department calls Interpol, Interpol calls the local police, and, uh, that's how you get raids in foreign countries.
[03:54.720 --> 04:03.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: The damage caused by the teenager's destruction of high-profile protection programs could reach half a million dollars, according to that unpronounceable Zagreb Daily.
[04:03.780 --> 04:07.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Secondly, computer hacking is not illegal in Croatia.
[04:07.800 --> 04:16.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is, according to this news story, computer hacking is not illegal in Croatia, and we'll have airfare prices for, uh, destinations in Croatia at the end of the program.
[04:16.970 --> 04:24.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: The three teenagers attend a school in the Adriatic port of Zadar, specializing in mathematics and science.
[04:25.200 --> 04:29.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Principal, um, well, he's got a weird name, too.
[04:29.760 --> 04:30.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can say his last name.
[04:30.560 --> 04:36.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Principal Kirko said the three had no criminal intent, and their success was a complement to their education.
[04:37.180 --> 04:40.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I think that guy's going to be the keynote speaker at the HOPE conference.
[04:40.850 --> 04:48.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he's, he's, he's got it right, you know, this, uh, this principal saying that people hacking into the Defense Department, uh, they're, they're not necessarily criminals.
[04:48.400 --> 04:48.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: How about that?
[04:49.020 --> 04:49.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: What a radical view.
[04:50.440 --> 04:56.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a case of extensive curiosity, which had undesired consequences, Kirko told Reuters by telephone.
[04:56.660 --> 04:59.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are excellent students in love with mathematics and computer science.
[04:59.820 --> 05:02.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are fanatics in a positive sense of the term.
[05:02.940 --> 05:07.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: But Kirko said the hacker's parents were concerned that they might be sued for damages.
[05:09.240 --> 05:14.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: As well as other unfortunate things that happen when you, uh, get the Defense Department angry at you.
[05:14.620 --> 05:18.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's, uh, that's the international story for, uh, for this week.
[05:19.000 --> 05:23.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, things like that are happening increasingly frequently, I guess.
[05:23.360 --> 05:26.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, you see web pages being hacked in various parts of the world.
[05:26.740 --> 05:27.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see it in Indonesia.
[05:27.840 --> 05:29.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was the most, uh, recent one, actually.
[05:29.840 --> 05:39.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, some, uh, website in Indonesia, a governmental one was hacked to, uh, uh, to, uh, change the message to talk about the East Timor repression.
[05:40.000 --> 05:44.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you want to see, uh, a, um, mirror of that, we managed to capture it.
[05:44.980 --> 05:46.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It only happened about a week ago, too.
[05:46.800 --> 05:48.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Happened for the second time around a week ago.
[05:49.020 --> 06:01.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, uh, you can go to our website, www.2600.com, to see that and a bunch of other hacked websites, um, that have happened over the past year or so, including some U.S.
[06:01.780 --> 06:07.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: governmental websites as well, and a fur company down in the south, which was also a bit of fun.
[06:07.220 --> 06:19.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, now, last week, we talked about, uh, or a caller actually called in, um, talking about a new, um, a new kind of, uh, communications product called FRS, Family Radio Service.
[06:20.260 --> 06:22.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, it's got nothing to do with those, uh, religious lunatics.
[06:22.580 --> 06:28.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, this, uh, family radio is, uh, is about, um, talking on walkie-talkies, pretty much.
[06:28.800 --> 06:31.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, now there's, this comes from Radio Electronics.
[06:31.480 --> 06:34.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's yet another way to walk the talk.
[06:35.560 --> 06:36.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, boy.
[06:36.340 --> 06:38.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it doesn't entail a monthly service charge.
[06:38.820 --> 06:48.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: A new communications option, Family Radio Service, FRS, is a two-way medium that's not unlike old walkie-talkies, but with smaller transceivers and a much longer range.
[06:49.560 --> 07:02.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Radio Shack, Motorola, Cobra, Midland, Maxon, and others will offer the new FRS receivers, which have 1.5 to 3.5-inch antennas and transmit at a half watt over a distance of two miles, depending on the terrain.
[07:02.660 --> 07:16.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: They operate on 14 channels in the UHF band from 462 to 476 megahertz, frequencies allocated by the FCC for outdoor enthusiasts, uh, neighborhood watch groups and families seeking low-cost local communication.
[07:17.380 --> 07:21.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: No FCC license is needed to own or operate these modern-day walkie-talkies.
[07:21.960 --> 07:26.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: FRS, like CB and General Mobile Radio Service, provides two-way simplex communication.
[07:26.920 --> 07:30.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: You talk, then I talk, but not at the same time.
[07:30.060 --> 07:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Though it lacks the longer reach of higher-powered CVs or cell phones, FRS has other appealing features.
[07:36.380 --> 07:47.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: FRS phones are small and have talk times 10 hours and standby times of 20 hours, similar to cell phones, using only two or three AAA cells or a rechargeable battery.
[07:48.280 --> 07:52.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never seen a cell phone that you can talk for 10 hours on, but, uh...
[07:52.120 --> 07:59.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apart from that, FRS also offers superior audio quality and greater freedom from interference than handheld battery-powered CVs.
[07:59.420 --> 08:08.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Users in a family or a neighborhood group can set their radios to one of 38 codes, and the radios will receive signals only from others using the same code.
[08:08.860 --> 08:10.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Conversations are not private.
[08:10.660 --> 08:13.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can be heard by anyone on the same channel.
[08:14.100 --> 08:20.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, with as many as 14 channels and the 38 codes to choose from, chances are good that users in a local area can avoid such overlap.
[08:22.180 --> 08:28.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Until the FRS population grows, some early portables will lack the codes or will offer fewer than 38 codes.
[08:28.560 --> 08:38.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Models with 2, 7, and 14 channels will be available, priced from $99 to $179, and in sizes as small as 1 by 2 by 4 inches.
[08:39.500 --> 08:43.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Their styling eventually will resemble cellular phones more than security radios.
[08:44.310 --> 08:52.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Radio Shack's forthcoming flip radio, for $149, will sport a folding design and will signal incoming traffic with a beep.
[08:53.220 --> 08:54.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds kind of neat.
[08:55.660 --> 09:04.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I'm not really sure how far, I guess up to 2 miles, I guess that's far enough, uh, if you're near to the people you want to speak to.
[09:05.380 --> 09:12.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: But also, uh, you can hear some interesting conversations as well, and I don't think it's illegal to tune to that particular frequency and, and listen in on what's going on.
[09:12.420 --> 09:17.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's, uh, the new FRS, Family Radio Servants.
[09:17.570 --> 09:19.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you don't have to be a family to use it.
[09:19.460 --> 09:21.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, don't let that dissuade you.
[09:22.020 --> 09:28.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll play around with those things, and maybe we'll have some over at, uh, the Hope Conference, and maybe we'll use that as our means of communication this time.
[09:28.460 --> 09:32.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, okay, uh, easy pass.
[09:32.570 --> 09:40.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Easy pass, of course, being the new quick way of getting through tunnels and bridges and things like that by not having to stop at all.
[09:40.160 --> 09:45.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Though today I had to stop because an 18-wheeler was parked in front of, uh, in front of the one lane on the Midtown Tunnel.
[09:46.330 --> 09:52.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I had to wait for that to get cleared up and then finally proceed and zip through the last 10 feet of my journey.
[09:54.460 --> 09:57.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, usually, in theory, this should work.
[09:57.710 --> 09:58.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: This should work very well.
[09:58.620 --> 10:01.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Unfortunately, the planning has been abysmal as far as traffic.
[10:01.840 --> 10:09.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, many times you wind up stuck in traffic until you are actually in the lane of the toll booth, and then you can, uh, whiz right on through.
[10:10.040 --> 10:15.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I finally got a, uh, an itemized, uh, bill from them.
[10:15.880 --> 10:17.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, it's missing a whole lot.
[10:17.680 --> 10:21.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think what they might have done is, uh, forgotten to send one out last month.
[10:21.950 --> 10:28.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, this is the first one I'm seeing right now because, uh, this doesn't begin until January 7th, and I know I was using it before then.
[10:29.860 --> 10:33.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, they basically, they, they give you your tag number.
[10:33.260 --> 10:34.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: They give you the place that you went through.
[10:35.220 --> 10:37.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it's, it's known as a plaza.
[10:37.140 --> 10:39.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they, they give you a three-letter, uh, code for that.
[10:39.680 --> 10:43.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, QMT is Queens Midtown Tunnel, TNB Throgs Neck Bridge.
[10:44.540 --> 10:47.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and they have a, a bunch of others as well.
[10:48.140 --> 10:51.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they tell you, uh, what plaza you went through, what lane you went through.
[10:52.810 --> 10:57.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure what class is, but I was always class one.
[10:57.800 --> 10:58.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Whatever that means.
[10:58.900 --> 10:59.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was class one.
[10:59.940 --> 11:03.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: The amount was always three dollars, as opposed to the three-fifty toll.
[11:04.620 --> 11:07.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, then they give you the date and the time.
[11:07.380 --> 11:09.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, they don't tell you what direction you were going in.
[11:09.460 --> 11:14.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess the lane tells you that, but if you don't know what the lane means, you don't know what direction you were heading in.
[11:14.100 --> 11:19.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, they don't differentiate with, with that particular, uh, uh, bit of information.
[11:19.980 --> 11:23.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, um, this is interesting.
[11:23.640 --> 11:25.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: This appears on the back.
[11:25.480 --> 11:28.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is something that they don't tell you until you actually start using the system.
[11:29.160 --> 11:38.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Account information will be disclosed only under judicial subpoena or to police investigating violations of criminal law involving MTA bridges and tunnels.
[11:38.880 --> 11:43.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: A copy of the disclosure policy is available by writing MTA bridges and tunnels.
[11:43.540 --> 11:48.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Public Information Office, 18th floor, 10 Columbus Circle, New York, New York, 10019.
[11:49.960 --> 11:54.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yes, they can track you and find out just where you were at a particular time, where your car was, anyway.
[11:55.340 --> 11:56.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, we're going to try this again.
[11:56.700 --> 11:57.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've tried it several times.
[11:57.900 --> 11:58.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's never worked.
[11:59.120 --> 12:02.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to try and get my data over the phone, as is my right.
[12:03.060 --> 12:04.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm supposedly able to do this.
[12:05.480 --> 12:12.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, every time I try, they tell me that my tag number is zero and that I have never crossed anything.
[12:12.720 --> 12:16.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I'd like to be able to see if I can, you know, tell when I crossed last.
[12:16.320 --> 12:21.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: I crossed last about an hour ago, and, you know, I'd like to know if it's reflected.
[12:21.700 --> 12:24.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, let's get that on the line here.
[12:25.760 --> 12:29.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: The number is 1-800-333-TOLL.
[12:33.230 --> 12:35.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see if we finally get some information.
[12:42.000 --> 12:45.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you for calling the MTA bridges and tunnels E-ZPass Service Center.
[12:46.120 --> 12:48.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Please listen closely to our new menu options.
[12:48.820 --> 12:55.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Due to the increased demand for E-ZPass, we have established a separate 24-hour toll-free number for application requests only.
[12:55.760 --> 13:00.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: For immediate assistance, please call 1-888-33-APPLY.
[13:00.760 --> 13:05.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's 1-888-332-7759.
[13:05.700 --> 13:12.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you are calling about the New York State Thruway E-ZPass program, please call 1-800-222-TOLL.
[13:12.780 --> 13:15.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's 1-800-222-8655.
[13:16.740 --> 13:23.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: Commercial account holders or rotary callers, please call again during our normal business hours, which are Monday through Friday, 7 a.m.
[13:24.000 --> 13:26.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: through 7 p.m., and Saturday, 8 a.m.
[13:26.460 --> 13:29.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: through 12 p.m., to speak to a customer service representative.
[13:29.820 --> 13:39.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you are an individual account holder and are calling from a Touch-Tone phone, please press 1 to use our 24-hour information system or to report a lost or stolen tag.
[13:39.840 --> 13:44.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you already have an application but need information regarding the E-ZPass program, press 2.
[13:45.240 --> 13:46.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm going to press 1.
[13:46.700 --> 13:51.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you are an existing account holder, please have your 7-digit E-ZPass account number ready.
[13:51.580 --> 13:55.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: To access individual account information, please press 1.
[13:55.480 --> 13:57.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you need to report a lost...
[13:57.120 --> 13:57.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: How did he do that?
[13:58.320 --> 13:58.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: Please press 2.
[13:58.880 --> 14:00.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, let's press 1.
[14:00.640 --> 14:05.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Individual account holders wishing to access their account information, please press 1.
[14:06.040 --> 14:09.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: To return to the main menu, please press 9.
[14:09.360 --> 14:10.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's awfully distracting.
[14:10.760 --> 14:10.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[14:11.460 --> 14:16.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Your 7-digit E-ZPass account number appears on the letter sent with your tag or at the top of your monthly statement.
[14:16.820 --> 14:22.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: To obtain account information from our 24-hour information system, enter your account number and press the pound button.
[14:23.560 --> 14:24.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I'm going to do that.
[14:24.420 --> 14:26.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to turn down the microphone while I do it.
[14:27.180 --> 14:29.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess the doppelganger has taken over completely.
[14:31.400 --> 14:32.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, and then you hit the pound sign, right?
[14:33.180 --> 14:33.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: You entered.
[14:33.980 --> 14:37.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we're going to turn that down and hopefully all the numbers are correct.
[14:38.660 --> 14:39.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fine.
[14:39.340 --> 14:40.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: If this is correct...
[14:40.320 --> 14:41.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know what my last number is.
[14:41.380 --> 14:41.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Press the pound button.
[14:41.760 --> 14:45.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: If this is incorrect, please hold while we access your account.
[14:46.500 --> 14:48.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the part they always seem to get broken on.
[14:49.120 --> 14:52.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you received a low balance light when you drove through the toll plaza, press 1.
[14:53.120 --> 14:55.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: For your current available toll balance, press 2.
[14:56.040 --> 14:58.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: For your most recent payment information, press 3.
[14:59.200 --> 15:02.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: For the most recent toll crossings charged to your account, press 4.
[15:02.820 --> 15:03.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the one we want.
[15:04.080 --> 15:05.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: For tag number 0.
[15:06.160 --> 15:07.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: There are no toll crossings on record.
[15:08.140 --> 15:09.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: For tag number 0.
[15:09.920 --> 15:11.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: There are no toll crossings on record.
[15:12.120 --> 15:12.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: To return to the previous...
[15:12.960 --> 15:13.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, that's just great.
[15:14.000 --> 15:17.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why do they even bother offering this service when they never give you any information?
[15:17.580 --> 15:18.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't get it.
[15:18.720 --> 15:23.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: For months now, we've been trying this and we never get past the point of tag number 0.
[15:23.680 --> 15:24.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I don't know.
[15:24.920 --> 15:25.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what to do.
[15:25.940 --> 15:30.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anyone out there has ever gotten them to say what your crossings are, tell me.
[15:30.620 --> 15:31.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to know.
[15:32.280 --> 15:32.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[15:34.200 --> 15:48.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Unfortunately, Fiber's not here tonight, so he won't be able to rebut what I'm about to say about how the local PCS phone service is a complete rip-off in this city, anyway.
[15:49.300 --> 15:51.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: And probably in the entire state.
[15:51.820 --> 16:01.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because two weeks ago, when I went down south, I had opportunity to experiment, to look around and see other kinds of services.
[16:01.820 --> 16:05.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Bell South has this really kind of interesting service.
[16:06.100 --> 16:07.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: They call it DCS.
[16:07.180 --> 16:15.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know why they call it something different, but it's basically the exact same service that they offer here in New York with Omnipoint.
[16:16.180 --> 16:17.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's DCS.
[16:17.380 --> 16:19.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's broadcast over 1.9 gigs.
[16:19.900 --> 16:24.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you basically are using the exact same kinds of phones.
[16:25.220 --> 16:28.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: The exact same kinds of services.
[16:29.680 --> 16:32.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I'll explain what they say here.
[16:32.160 --> 16:33.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Digital Communication Service.
[16:33.500 --> 16:34.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what DCS stands for.
[16:35.340 --> 16:39.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bell South Mobility DCS is the South's premier all-digital network.
[16:39.220 --> 16:44.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our advanced digital technology ensures no one can steal your number and bill calls to it.
[16:45.060 --> 16:51.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Other mobile phone services, which are not digital, are vulnerable to thieves stealing your number through the air and running up your bill.
[16:51.880 --> 16:55.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: With Bell South Mobility DCS, you don't have to worry about number security.
[16:55.820 --> 17:00.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And our all-digital network makes it virtually impossible for anyone to listen in on your calls.
[17:01.020 --> 17:07.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Other mobile phone services are vulnerable to eavesdropping, but Bell South Mobility DCS keeps your private conversations private.
[17:07.960 --> 17:11.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: This phone does more turned off than most phones do turned on.
[17:11.520 --> 17:13.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they go into all the features and things like that.
[17:15.240 --> 17:17.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, here is the interesting part.
[17:17.680 --> 17:19.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: The rate structure.
[17:19.400 --> 17:21.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, they have calling plans.
[17:21.160 --> 17:22.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is for North Carolina.
[17:22.440 --> 17:24.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is for a pretty wide section.
[17:25.080 --> 17:26.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they have...
[17:26.760 --> 17:29.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Up here, the rates are something like...
[17:29.560 --> 17:30.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is it?
[17:30.260 --> 17:31.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: The cheapest they get is a quarter a minute.
[17:31.960 --> 17:32.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: The very cheapest.
[17:33.160 --> 17:36.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the most expensive, we've seen over 50 cents a minute.
[17:37.360 --> 17:43.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: And various penalties for people who actually have the audacity to pay in cash before the bills come.
[17:43.900 --> 17:44.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, prepay customers.
[17:45.020 --> 17:49.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Which I think they should get more for paying before they billed, but that's not how Omnipoint figures it.
[17:49.740 --> 17:52.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they get penalized for that.
[17:52.380 --> 17:56.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: The calling plan down there, there are several options.
[17:56.940 --> 18:05.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can have a monthly service charge of $26.95 and get 45 free minutes and pay 30 cents per minute.
[18:05.020 --> 18:13.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or, you can go for the performance plan, $44.95 a month, get 120 free minutes and pay a quarter a minute.
[18:13.740 --> 18:17.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: But here's the really interesting plan, the power plan.
[18:17.540 --> 18:24.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: For $89.95, you get 360 free minutes, which is quite a lot of free minutes, I think.
[18:25.260 --> 18:30.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And your rate after that 360 free minutes is only 15 cents a minute.
[18:31.300 --> 18:35.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nobody in New York has a rate similar to that that I have ever seen.
[18:35.820 --> 18:36.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: 15 cents a minute.
[18:37.120 --> 18:38.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, it gets even better than this.
[18:39.320 --> 18:45.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have this service, which I've always been, like, you know, complaining that they don't offer things like this.
[18:46.300 --> 18:50.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your first minute on any incoming call doesn't cost anything.
[18:51.100 --> 18:58.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, somebody can call you just to tell you where they are, and you don't have to worry about paying every time somebody does that, as long as you keep the call a minute or less.
[18:58.400 --> 19:01.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, that first minute is always free coming in.
[19:01.460 --> 19:08.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you work it right, you can pay $89.95, monthly service charge, get 360 free minutes.
[19:09.060 --> 19:13.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me have a calculator to figure out what what $89.95 divided by 360 is.
[19:13.680 --> 19:15.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have a computer there, but can it do math?
[19:16.820 --> 19:17.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[19:17.600 --> 19:18.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Figure out what...
[19:18.480 --> 19:21.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, because if you don't want to pay a monthly service charge, although...
[19:21.300 --> 19:22.600]  $89.95 by what?
[19:22.920 --> 19:23.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: By 360.
[19:25.200 --> 19:30.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: That should tell us the per minute charge, actually, if you want to look at it that way.
[19:31.940 --> 19:36.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because, excuse me, because I know Omnipoint charge is something.
[19:36.260 --> 19:36.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what it is.
[19:37.020 --> 19:38.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fiber is supposed to have all that information today.
[19:38.500 --> 19:39.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Unfortunately, it's not here.
[19:39.760 --> 19:40.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: $0.25.
[19:40.420 --> 19:41.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: $0.25 a minute.
[19:41.260 --> 19:42.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you're paying the same amount no matter what.
[19:42.740 --> 19:48.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you use your phone more than 360 minutes, then this really starts to pay off.
[19:49.220 --> 19:53.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, there's all kinds of other plans, too, including one plan where the rate is $0.05 a minute.
[19:53.960 --> 19:59.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, a monthly service charge of $14.95 and a permanent rate of $0.05 per minute on weekends.
[20:00.860 --> 20:02.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the weekends start at 8 p.m.
[20:02.580 --> 20:04.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: on Fridays and go until 7 a.m.
[20:04.520 --> 20:05.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: on Mondays.
[20:05.340 --> 20:06.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's for $14.95.
[20:06.680 --> 20:08.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, what that does is...
[20:09.000 --> 20:10.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's called the leisure plan.
[20:10.560 --> 20:15.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: The leisure plan allows you to stay in touch on the weekends.
[20:16.020 --> 20:16.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: $0.05 per minute.
[20:16.980 --> 20:17.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: No tricks.
[20:17.420 --> 20:17.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: No contract.
[20:18.000 --> 20:18.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: No nonsense.
[20:18.740 --> 20:21.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sign up for the leisure plan and pay only $0.05 per minute on weekends.
[20:22.420 --> 20:26.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's for your entire local calling area.
[20:27.020 --> 20:28.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm pretty sure that's how that works.
[20:28.840 --> 20:30.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, there are alternatives out there.
[20:30.680 --> 20:31.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's many of them.
[20:32.780 --> 20:35.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, unfortunately, we don't really have any of them here.
[20:35.060 --> 20:36.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: We just have one choice.
[20:36.740 --> 20:42.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: The thing is, you have to have competition, and that's really the only way you'll have competitive prices like this.
[20:42.740 --> 20:48.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, there is the point that Bell South is a phone company and they have some advantages there.
[20:48.280 --> 21:01.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, there are all kinds of, I guess, consumer groups and public service commissions that exist for the purpose of making sure that one company does not have an unfair advantage over another.
[21:03.020 --> 21:10.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I don't think NYNEX is going to rush in and put Omnipoint out of business with really great rates.
[21:10.860 --> 21:18.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's up to Omnipoint, up to other companies to bring down their rates so that these phones are actually cheaper like they're supposed to be.
[21:18.920 --> 21:22.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right now, they're really not much cheaper than regular cellular phones.
[21:24.240 --> 21:27.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, hopefully, this will wake people up just a little bit.
[21:28.320 --> 21:29.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: 15 cents a minute.
[21:29.280 --> 21:38.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think, you know, this is the first time I ever saw a cellular phone rate that I think would be fair, you know, that I think is worthwhile.
[21:39.520 --> 21:42.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't feel like I'm being ripped off every time, you know, you pick up the phone.
[21:43.040 --> 21:48.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, when you pay 50 cents a minute or even 25 cents a minute, you know, it really starts to add up.
[21:48.400 --> 21:57.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: But when the rates start to approach that of regular telephones, then you start to consider using these things, you know, like a regular telephone.
[21:57.120 --> 22:02.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Although you should never use it as much as a regular telephone because if you do that, you have all these, like, you know, radio waves emanating into your head.
[22:03.500 --> 22:04.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And who needs that?
[22:04.900 --> 22:05.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[22:05.700 --> 22:15.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's pretty much the spiel on DCS service, which is basically the same thing as PCS service down in Bell South territory.
[22:15.720 --> 22:16.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anyone...
[22:16.420 --> 22:19.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, actually, we don't have any Bell South listeners today because we're not on real audio.
[22:19.640 --> 22:25.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: But if anyone out there has experiences with other phone companies in other parts of the country, please let us know.
[22:25.520 --> 22:28.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
[22:29.240 --> 22:38.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please feel free to give us a call with any kind of information that you have on any of these things or any other stories or any questions that you might have on other things.
[22:39.780 --> 22:41.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's take our first phone call.
[22:41.280 --> 22:41.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[22:41.660 --> 22:42.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[22:42.120 --> 22:42.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, Emmanuel.
[22:43.180 --> 22:43.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Three questions.
[22:44.100 --> 22:49.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: First, with the PCS, if I recall, remember that famous broadcast of fiber in the taxi?
[22:49.860 --> 22:50.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[22:50.760 --> 22:58.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you guys were talking about how the antennas have to be spaced very close together at the top of Manhattan in rooftop buildings.
[22:59.480 --> 23:03.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, like, North Carolina, I believe, is, you know, all rural.
[23:03.360 --> 23:07.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, how do you think they do the antenna configuration for their DCS?
[23:07.420 --> 23:08.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure, to be honest.
[23:08.840 --> 23:14.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I looked at the map that shows what their coverage area is and a lot of it is based on interstate highways.
[23:15.160 --> 23:17.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, that tells me that the antennas are on the highway.
[23:17.260 --> 23:21.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they say that they're going to be expanding well beyond that into the countryside.
[23:22.840 --> 23:27.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe the antenna's strength is more powerful than the ones in New York City?
[23:27.380 --> 23:32.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: They may have found a way to increase the power of the antennas as possible, or they may just be putting antennas everywhere.
[23:33.260 --> 23:42.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't really know how they're getting around that, but that's something that is paramount in getting this service to be, you know, accepted by people.
[23:42.240 --> 23:42.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Two more questions.
[23:42.980 --> 23:44.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: First, I'm sort of disappointed.
[23:44.400 --> 23:46.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Fiber has been tardy two weeks in a row.
[23:46.580 --> 23:48.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: We need to, like, do something about that.
[23:48.400 --> 23:48.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[23:49.060 --> 23:50.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, number two.
[23:50.640 --> 23:51.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just curious.
[23:51.940 --> 24:00.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Approximately, is there any way of finding out, or perhaps you would know, at this, you know, present point in time, approximately, how many websites are there?
[24:01.020 --> 24:03.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Like, you know, www.whatever.
[24:03.860 --> 24:04.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: How many are in existence?
[24:05.140 --> 24:06.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is there, like, in the millions yet?
[24:06.520 --> 24:09.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's definitely over a hundred, right?
[24:09.500 --> 24:10.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I would think so.
[24:10.780 --> 24:21.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just going on my personal, yeah, you know, it's, there's all kinds of ways of, you know, you ask the people at AltaVista, you know, with their little search robots going out there and finding everything.
[24:22.180 --> 24:23.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's definitely millions.
[24:24.000 --> 24:24.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Millions.
[24:24.580 --> 24:25.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Trillions, even.
[24:25.420 --> 24:26.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no limit.
[24:26.740 --> 24:28.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: An infinite number of web pages.
[24:28.400 --> 24:29.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: And all of them are, like, in English?
[24:30.360 --> 24:30.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[24:31.900 --> 24:32.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, like...
[24:32.320 --> 24:33.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: What made you think they're all in English?
[24:33.700 --> 24:38.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because, like, to do the command, like www.whatever the word is, you know?
[24:38.560 --> 24:40.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, www is not necessarily English.
[24:41.300 --> 24:42.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh...
[24:42.260 --> 24:45.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I mean, addresses are not a language.
[24:45.720 --> 24:46.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[24:46.280 --> 24:47.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: They simply represent, uh...
[24:47.780 --> 24:54.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, like, you can, you know, get, uh, Chinese and everything and Japanese Zen poetry.
[24:54.520 --> 25:01.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to, you have to adjust your, your terminal to be able to, uh, to, uh, display certain characters.
[25:01.500 --> 25:03.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, this, like, it makes my head spin.
[25:03.340 --> 25:12.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the last thing, also about the Internet, I was talking today to this cancer cultural psychiatrist who's, who has a lot of patients who are into this.
[25:12.880 --> 25:13.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[25:13.100 --> 25:17.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we were talking about it, you know, saying, well, maybe I should get into it or try web TV or something.
[25:18.160 --> 25:25.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he said, for the web TV, it's like a rip-off because you're paying more than you would for cable TV plus HBO.
[25:25.760 --> 25:30.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: And according to this guy, I mean, he knows his medication, but for other stuff, don't take it too seriously.
[25:31.140 --> 25:31.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[25:31.500 --> 25:36.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, he says, like, most of the stuff currently on the Internet is, like, scams and rip-offs.
[25:37.240 --> 25:44.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, like, if you're not careful and you want to do something, like, you can get charged your phone bill and your credit call without even being aware of it.
[25:44.820 --> 25:52.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so, he's, you know, he's into this conspiracy that it's all con artists trying to get your money or feed you misinformation.
[25:52.580 --> 26:02.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I don't know if you want to approach every life situation like that, but, uh, you know, you should, uh, beware of certain things, of new products and things like that, but that doesn't mean you should avoid them.
[26:02.240 --> 26:08.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: He was saying, like, if you want to download something by just doing clicks, you can, like, get something charged to your phone bill.
[26:08.680 --> 26:10.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if you ever heard of anything like that.
[26:10.160 --> 26:11.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you know, in fact, I did.
[26:11.620 --> 26:24.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's, there's, you might have seen this on the news, there's this, uh, scam going on that somebody was running where if you downloaded a certain, uh, first of all, you had to, you had to have the lust for porn to get started.
[26:24.100 --> 26:25.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's right, he mentioned porn.
[26:25.800 --> 26:30.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, so, right away, that means you, you know, you deserve whatever you get in most people of the eyes.
[26:30.420 --> 26:35.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, people would download this particular program which was necessary to view these pictures.
[26:36.100 --> 26:41.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what this, what this was, this, this, this supposedly was a browser of some sort that allowed you to browse their pages.
[26:41.580 --> 27:00.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: What it actually did was, it sent a command to your modem to, A, turn the speaker off so you wouldn't hear it redialing, B, redial something in, I believe, Moldova, which is a former Soviet Republic, and pay rates of up to three dollars a minute to, to browse the net from that remote location.
[27:00.860 --> 27:02.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: One of his patients fell for that.
[27:02.900 --> 27:07.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and the thing is, the amazing thing is that once you finished browsing it was still connected.
[27:07.980 --> 27:13.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you had to, you had to, you know, disconnect your modem or turn your computer off to lose that connection.
[27:13.000 --> 27:18.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you just walked away and went out and walked the dog or something like that, you're still connected paying three dollars a minute.
[27:18.200 --> 27:19.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: I now know why...
[27:19.100 --> 27:19.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's ingenious, really.
[27:19.900 --> 27:22.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: I now know why you chose the name you did.
[27:22.200 --> 27:27.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's scary, but like, every week, you know, you do the show, it is more and more 1984.
[27:28.740 --> 27:30.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if there's anything else.
[27:30.180 --> 27:34.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, I'm going to make way for Rebel, and maybe Monroe will call, and who knows what.
[27:34.660 --> 27:36.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please, please, let's not tempt fate.
[27:36.440 --> 27:43.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, and Fiber, you get back on the show next week, or else, you know, we're going to have to get some 12-year-old to hack you or something.
[27:43.680 --> 27:44.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, bye.
[27:44.380 --> 27:46.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, maybe that's what's happening right now.
[27:46.960 --> 27:49.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, 212-279-3400.
[27:50.940 --> 27:51.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[27:51.620 --> 27:54.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never done anything with web TV, so I don't know much about that.
[27:54.600 --> 27:56.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anyone out there has played around with that, then just let us know.
[27:57.280 --> 27:58.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[27:58.940 --> 27:59.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi.
[27:59.460 --> 27:59.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: How you doing?
[27:59.780 --> 28:05.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, I just wanted to know, with all that hacking business you were talking about from Croatia...
[28:05.220 --> 28:05.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[28:06.220 --> 28:12.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: How come none of these brilliant kids, like, decide to try to get into the IRS and screw it up?
[28:12.960 --> 28:15.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe they have, and you just never hear from them again.
[28:15.920 --> 28:16.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's possible.
[28:17.380 --> 28:19.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think the IRS is that accessible.
[28:19.300 --> 28:23.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they use their brains as far as not having all their secrets lying out on the Internet.
[28:25.160 --> 28:29.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, oh, that's the only way you can mess up a computer is by if they're on their Internet?
[28:29.360 --> 28:31.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the Internet is the easiest way to access things.
[28:31.860 --> 28:37.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Obviously, if you had their private dial-ups, you could get in that way, but that's, you know, information that you have to get in some form.
[28:37.820 --> 28:52.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, also, I heard, or I read in the paper that I think New York State was going to contract its stuff out to third parties to do the tax forms this year.
[28:52.320 --> 28:52.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you hear that?
[28:52.980 --> 28:53.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I didn't.
[28:53.960 --> 29:07.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it was in the Times, as a matter of fact, and, yeah, it was New York State was thinking of in the, or in the process of sending out the tax forms because they were overloaded.
[29:07.340 --> 29:08.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: They couldn't do it.
[29:08.740 --> 29:09.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what they do.
[29:09.740 --> 29:10.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're tax...
[29:10.100 --> 29:11.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you mean they're overloaded?
[29:11.940 --> 29:13.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: What, they have some other pressing business?
[29:13.720 --> 29:14.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: They were going to have...
[29:14.480 --> 29:18.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was a big controversy because they were going to have a third-party having access to people's private...
[29:18.960 --> 29:19.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't tell me.
[29:19.380 --> 29:23.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're going to send it to a prison in Texas someplace and have people there do it as work release, right?
[29:24.160 --> 29:25.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds like the kind of thing they do.
[29:26.060 --> 29:35.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, it doesn't really have anything to do with the, with the, uh, what we're talking about, but I just thought to see, um, I guess, obviously, uh, if it's not, then...
[29:35.640 --> 29:36.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, that was my question.
[29:37.140 --> 29:37.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[29:37.920 --> 29:38.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for calling.
[29:38.720 --> 29:38.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.
[29:40.520 --> 29:41.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[29:42.200 --> 29:42.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[29:42.580 --> 29:42.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[29:43.960 --> 29:44.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello.
[29:44.500 --> 29:44.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[29:44.940 --> 29:45.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[29:45.440 --> 29:45.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just a second.
[29:45.880 --> 29:46.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let me turn down my radio.
[29:46.900 --> 29:47.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[29:47.640 --> 29:50.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, yeah, I had a question, um...
[29:50.580 --> 29:51.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, sorry.
[29:51.380 --> 29:52.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, last...
[29:52.540 --> 30:03.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: This happened to me last fall, and, um, I have my baby daughter here, um, and I tried to call him, but I've never been able to get through, so let me, um, tell you what happened.
[30:03.160 --> 30:04.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was home on Friday night.
[30:07.420 --> 30:12.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, it was about 1130, and I was studying, so, um, I wasn't going to answer my phone.
[30:12.100 --> 30:20.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: The phone rang, and, um, I didn't pick it up, and, uh, the machine picked up, and I was trying to screen the call, and there were...
[30:20.260 --> 30:30.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: no voice came over the line, and then it rang, like, three more times for a total of four times, and nobody ever left a message, so finally it rang again, and I picked it up, and...
[30:30.400 --> 30:31.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's break in one.
[30:31.520 --> 30:35.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, what kind of message do you have on your outgoing, uh, on your answering machine?
[30:35.800 --> 30:36.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um...
[30:36.060 --> 30:39.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it something that people might find humorous enough to call back and listen to again?
[30:39.920 --> 30:46.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, it's just, uh, I don't have my phone number or my name or anything, I just say, please leave a message, and...
[30:46.000 --> 30:57.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because I made the mistake of giving out a phone number to, to a salesman once, uh, and, and he called me and left a message saying he liked the message very much, then ten minutes later, his co-worker called to hear the message.
[30:57.700 --> 31:03.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: By the end of the day, about 40 people had called up the answering machine to hear the message, because it got spread around the office, so...
[31:03.140 --> 31:03.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[31:03.320 --> 31:05.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that's one thing you should be concerned about.
[31:06.160 --> 31:06.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so...
[31:06.540 --> 31:08.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, no, it's nothing, nothing like that.
[31:08.620 --> 31:23.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, but I, I finally picked it up, and, um, this is 1130 Friday night, and, um, the, uh, man on the other end of the line, it sounded like a youngish man, said he was calling from NYNEX, and that I was going to have to hang up my phone, and they were going to call back,
[31:23.660 --> 31:31.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: and if I didn't pick up my phone, that my service would be cut off for the whole weekend, because there was something wrong with some wires in my neighborhood or something.
[31:32.040 --> 31:32.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[31:32.360 --> 31:38.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I was home by myself, and I, and I, I found it very strange, and I said, well, what if I don't pick up?
[31:38.740 --> 31:42.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he said, well, you should pick up if you want to be able to use your phone this weekend.
[31:43.100 --> 31:56.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, so I just unplugged his phone, and I don't know if they ever tried to call again, but I wondered if you'd ever heard of anything like that, or if it was some kind of a scam, what it would be if you'd ever...
[31:56.280 --> 31:57.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that sounds...
[31:57.680 --> 31:58.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never heard of it.
[31:58.580 --> 32:00.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this 1130 in the morning?
[32:00.300 --> 32:01.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, at night.
[32:01.080 --> 32:03.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's definitely, that is definitely not NYNEX.
[32:03.680 --> 32:05.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: NYNEX would not call you 1130 p.m.
[32:05.880 --> 32:07.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: to ask you to do something like that.
[32:07.980 --> 32:09.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so, um...
[32:09.100 --> 32:09.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did you try...
[32:09.840 --> 32:10.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: What state are you in?
[32:11.020 --> 32:11.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I'm in New York.
[32:12.040 --> 32:12.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm in New York City.
[32:13.100 --> 32:16.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did you try anything like Star 6ix 9 or any of that business?
[32:16.240 --> 32:17.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I didn't, actually.
[32:18.220 --> 32:26.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I, I called NYNEX and I asked if they thought it was them, and they said that they didn't think it was them.
[32:26.220 --> 32:26.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[32:27.280 --> 32:29.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that certainly doesn't sound like something they would do, so...
[32:29.860 --> 32:30.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[32:30.500 --> 32:31.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean...
[32:32.480 --> 32:34.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It sounds like you have to deal with something there.
[32:34.560 --> 32:35.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm, I'm okay.
[32:35.920 --> 32:36.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm dealing with it now.
[32:36.960 --> 32:40.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, but, so, it's not, it's nothing that you've ever heard of, huh?
[32:40.380 --> 32:42.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, not that particular, uh, scam, no.
[32:43.080 --> 32:43.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[32:43.140 --> 32:44.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Whatever it might be.
[32:44.180 --> 32:45.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: It sounds like somebody...
[32:45.140 --> 32:46.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have you ever gotten any calls since then?
[32:46.940 --> 32:48.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not like that, no.
[32:48.220 --> 33:02.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: I did have, um, somebody who was calling me and harassing me, but it was a totally different, um, kind of person, you know, it was somebody who wasn't from this country and it was a woman, so I, I doubt if it's anybody she knows who was trying to follow up,
[33:02.460 --> 33:02.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: so...
[33:02.640 --> 33:02.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[33:03.180 --> 33:12.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, the, the fact that the person kept calling back tells me that they were just, um, I don't know, maybe they wanted to hear your voice or something like that, or just, just harassed you in some way.
[33:12.480 --> 33:13.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: What, what day of the week was this?
[33:14.080 --> 33:15.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was Friday.
[33:15.160 --> 33:15.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Friday night.
[33:15.700 --> 33:18.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, I think, I think you're dealing with just some loony out there.
[33:18.440 --> 33:18.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[33:19.040 --> 33:22.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, um, you know, just, uh, don't answer the phone.
[33:22.300 --> 33:22.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the best way.
[33:22.960 --> 33:23.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[33:23.440 --> 33:24.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or screen your calls.
[33:24.640 --> 33:25.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, right.
[33:25.620 --> 33:29.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, whatever, just, you know, don't let it affect you so much that, that you show a reaction to the person.
[33:30.400 --> 33:30.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[33:31.460 --> 33:32.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, thanks.
[33:32.540 --> 33:33.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, good luck.
[33:33.080 --> 33:33.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, bye.
[33:34.620 --> 33:35.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a, that's a new one on me.
[33:36.540 --> 33:39.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, this is Off the Hook, 212-279-3400.
[33:39.400 --> 33:40.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, you're on.
[33:40.520 --> 33:41.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm on the air?
[33:41.420 --> 33:42.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, you are.
[33:42.940 --> 33:43.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, that's cool.
[33:43.700 --> 33:46.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, um, you know the, uh, B-boxes or distribution boxes?
[33:47.240 --> 33:47.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[33:48.200 --> 33:54.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, well, anyway, I read the side of one of mine, there were stickers all over the place with the same thing on it, and there were three letters and four numbers.
[33:54.680 --> 33:56.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: S-A-C and 4-0-6-1.
[33:57.160 --> 33:59.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was three letters on top and, uh, four numbers on the bottom.
[33:59.580 --> 34:00.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do you have any idea what that is?
[34:01.460 --> 34:02.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, let's see.
[34:02.620 --> 34:03.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's, uh, where are you located?
[34:03.760 --> 34:05.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, under Bell Atlantic in New Jersey.
[34:06.300 --> 34:06.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[34:07.280 --> 34:10.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, are these phone, phone boxes or possibly cable or...
[34:10.820 --> 34:13.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, they're just the, uh, big, um, green, like, four by five boxes.
[34:13.860 --> 34:16.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, how long have they been around for, for as long as you can remember?
[34:17.440 --> 34:18.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: S-A-C.
[34:18.760 --> 34:19.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know what it is.
[34:19.940 --> 34:22.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I've asked on the Internet like all my friends and everything and I have no idea.
[34:22.740 --> 34:24.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I was thinking something, something cable.
[34:24.700 --> 34:24.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[34:25.100 --> 34:25.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, S-A-C.
[34:26.160 --> 34:27.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, I don't know.
[34:28.200 --> 34:35.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you're in Bell Atlantic, so, uh, you know, they should either read Bell Atlantic or New Jersey Bell from the old days.
[34:35.720 --> 34:35.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have those, too.
[34:36.120 --> 34:39.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: But they're just, I think it's an identification number.
[34:39.640 --> 34:40.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's the name of your power company?
[34:42.080 --> 34:43.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, I don't remember.
[34:43.160 --> 34:44.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a New Jersey power company, but it's not that.
[34:45.020 --> 34:45.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm positive it's the phone lines.
[34:46.280 --> 34:50.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've seen the alignment playing in it, so, uh, it's all aligned like every day.
[34:50.780 --> 34:52.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, it's definitely a phone thing, then.
[34:52.460 --> 34:52.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[34:52.720 --> 34:54.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: We just don't know what the S-A-C means.
[34:54.280 --> 34:58.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, have you gone around to other parts of your neighborhood to see if they say the same basic thing?
[34:58.520 --> 35:00.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I haven't seen the other big boxes.
[35:00.320 --> 35:00.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[35:01.000 --> 35:01.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: When you've seen that one.
[35:02.180 --> 35:02.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[35:02.660 --> 35:02.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[35:03.000 --> 35:04.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is all within how big an area?
[35:05.220 --> 35:07.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it's like a three-mile town.
[35:07.800 --> 35:08.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[35:08.900 --> 35:11.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, could it be the name of the town?
[35:11.240 --> 35:11.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, no.
[35:12.040 --> 35:12.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[35:12.520 --> 35:16.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or the county, or township, or whatever they call things over there?
[35:16.120 --> 35:16.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nothing like that.
[35:16.720 --> 35:18.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, I'm kind of stumped on that one.
[35:18.660 --> 35:19.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: S-A-C.
[35:19.100 --> 35:19.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why I am.
[35:19.620 --> 35:23.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll open it up to the listeners, see if anybody in Jersey understands what S-A-C means.
[35:23.360 --> 35:25.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: But basically, it's that and four numbers, right?
[35:25.520 --> 35:27.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, S-A-C and 4-0-6-1.
[35:28.000 --> 35:31.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, that's, you've probably just given out your exact coordinates to everybody listening.
[35:31.880 --> 35:33.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, but it's within, it's like a three-mile town.
[35:33.700 --> 35:35.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: They can just search the whole friggin' town, you know?
[35:35.200 --> 35:35.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[35:36.140 --> 35:37.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, well, hopefully we'll find an answer for you.
[35:37.920 --> 35:38.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[35:38.360 --> 35:39.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, take care.
[35:39.540 --> 35:46.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, once we find an answer, I don't know what the next step is, but finding out what S-A-C means is, I guess, you know, a start.
[35:46.820 --> 35:47.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[35:47.380 --> 35:47.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[35:49.000 --> 35:49.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speak up.
[35:49.720 --> 35:50.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[35:50.580 --> 35:50.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[35:50.920 --> 35:54.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I may have an answer for that last caller's question.
[35:54.800 --> 35:54.820]  Okay.
[35:55.020 --> 36:09.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know, here in Brooklyn at least, on some of the buildings, they have, like, a little kind of plastic box on the exterior of the building, and if you open it up, it seems to have some sort of, like, you know, tendon port type of thing.
[36:10.900 --> 36:15.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: It might be something like a water company meter thing.
[36:15.840 --> 36:21.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what would a water company have an electronic box for?
[36:21.940 --> 36:22.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm not sure.
[36:22.940 --> 36:36.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: See, that's the thing, is that the way, if it's a private house, the way they may do the metering is they just go in and they plug their reader right into that box, right into basically that junction there.
[36:36.680 --> 36:40.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know it's used in some rural areas, in Rhode Island, for example.
[36:40.700 --> 36:45.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, maybe this doesn't apply here, but that's something that you might want to consider.
[36:46.460 --> 36:47.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I will consider it.
[36:47.760 --> 36:55.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, the other thing, as far as the, uh, you're talking about, um, digital, cellular in the south and things, and, uh, rates.
[36:55.920 --> 36:59.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, how familiar are you with cellular in Israel?
[37:00.100 --> 37:01.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not very familiar at all.
[37:01.440 --> 37:16.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I was reading something and I'm not, can't remember which, uh, which journal it was, but talking about the different cellular programs that they have over there, and they're talking about having rates as low as, uh, 10 cents a minute.
[37:17.340 --> 37:22.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And also having a, a plan where basically you only pay for outgoing calls.
[37:22.560 --> 37:22.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[37:22.720 --> 37:24.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't pay for any incoming calls.
[37:24.300 --> 37:24.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[37:24.580 --> 37:27.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that's, you know, fairly standard in many parts of the world, actually.
[37:28.000 --> 37:28.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[37:28.620 --> 37:40.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's something that I, I heard, and I'm wondering with, um, these new, uh, telecommunication bills and treaties and things that are springing up all over the place, whether you think we're going to see something like that.
[37:40.160 --> 37:43.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think we'll see it, not because of any bills, but because of, of simple competition.
[37:44.300 --> 37:44.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[37:44.420 --> 37:48.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, once you start getting more companies offering services, you'll start to see more reasonable prices.
[37:48.740 --> 37:49.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Simple as that.
[37:49.980 --> 37:51.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also, you know, consumer demands.
[37:51.920 --> 37:58.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: If, uh, you know, right now the majority of people using these things aren't really consumers, they're business people, and they don't really care what they pay.
[37:58.420 --> 38:01.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, they, the, the, the company pays the whole cost, so it doesn't really matter to them.
[38:01.920 --> 38:10.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Once people start exerting their power as a potential marketing force, I think you'll see these companies really, uh, you know, getting in line.
[38:11.000 --> 38:11.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Indeed.
[38:11.760 --> 38:15.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: The, uh, one final question I have is, this is, uh, more of a payphone question.
[38:16.100 --> 38:16.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[38:16.560 --> 38:16.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[38:17.160 --> 38:25.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, some payphones in certain areas of the city, um, are blocked if you're trying to dial a 917, uh, area code.
[38:25.960 --> 38:27.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I, I did not know that.
[38:27.360 --> 38:29.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: You mean, uh, regular NYNEX phones?
[38:29.400 --> 38:34.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Regular, even, um, some NYNEX phones, mostly non-NYNEX, uh, service providers.
[38:34.380 --> 38:50.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you try to dial a 917 for either a pager or cell phone, um, either it'll give you a message saying that you can't get this number or one of the problems I've run into is you can call the number, but once you finish dialing and...
[38:50.080 --> 38:50.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Touchstones afterwards.
[38:50.960 --> 38:51.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[38:51.420 --> 38:51.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[38:51.640 --> 38:54.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that's more a standard thing that, uh, co-cuts do.
[38:54.280 --> 39:01.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And increasingly, NYNEX phones have done, I guess, to prevent you from, uh, using competitor services or some stupidity like that.
[39:01.240 --> 39:10.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, blocking 917, that's something I'd like to know more about because that's, that's sort of, uh, saying this entire area code is, is, uh, invalid and, uh, must not be dialed.
[39:10.100 --> 39:11.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to know who actually thinks that way.
[39:11.920 --> 39:14.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: If it's NYNEX, uh, we certainly have something to say about that.
[39:14.680 --> 39:15.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, yeah.
[39:15.160 --> 39:16.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I kind of doubt it, but...
[39:16.160 --> 39:21.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, I think the message that, that I seem to remember is that you get a message saying, invalid number, and, uh...
[39:21.520 --> 39:23.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds like a co-cut giving that message.
[39:23.500 --> 39:25.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it could just be programmed badly.
[39:25.640 --> 39:31.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I've gotten co-cuts that ask for $10 for, you know, 800 calls, so obviously they don't really expect to get that.
[39:31.340 --> 39:32.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're just badly programmed.
[39:32.520 --> 39:32.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: True.
[39:33.340 --> 39:43.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you, uh, you know of any way of getting around, um, that problem of, you know, you dial up a number and then all of a sudden, for some reason, you can't punch in any other numbers once you connect through?
[39:44.280 --> 39:46.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I'm sorry, ask that again?
[39:46.400 --> 39:46.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[39:47.160 --> 39:59.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, for example, you dial, like, a 917 number, you dial a voice number or something like that, and then once you dial that number and you make the connection to the voicemail, it's like you're cut off from being able to do any more functions.
[39:59.840 --> 40:03.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Any number that you'll press on the keypad, won't register.
[40:03.420 --> 40:04.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what's your question?
[40:04.420 --> 40:07.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there any way of kind of skirting around that?
[40:07.320 --> 40:15.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, uh, a lot of phones have that restriction, uh, including NYNEX phones, and we complain bitterly about that because it just should not be.
[40:15.460 --> 40:15.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[40:15.900 --> 40:25.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, the most obvious way of getting around it is to carry around a Touch-Tone, uh, pad and just simply feed it into the mouthpiece yourself, although everybody's going to think you're using a red box, doesn't really matter what people think, now does it?
[40:25.260 --> 40:25.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's true.
[40:26.320 --> 40:33.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, you know, that's, if that's what you have to do, then, then, you know, either don't use that phone or or, you know, generate your own tones.
[40:33.560 --> 40:35.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, they can't block the tones from going through.
[40:35.700 --> 40:39.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it's just the, the, uh, commands from the, uh, keypad, actually.
[40:39.360 --> 40:49.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, there might be some, some ways around it, too, where if you, you know, go through an operator first or, you know, dial in a different way, you might defeat it that way, but, um, for the most part, it's a real pain to deal with.
[40:49.380 --> 40:57.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure, I know that sometimes if you use a calling card or something like that, basically, you, you go through another number to get to the number that you want eventually, then you're okay.
[40:57.980 --> 40:58.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[40:59.260 --> 40:59.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[40:59.620 --> 41:00.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, good luck.
[41:00.360 --> 41:00.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.
[41:01.040 --> 41:01.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[41:02.680 --> 41:04.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[41:04.440 --> 41:05.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[41:06.420 --> 41:06.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[41:07.060 --> 41:07.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[41:07.680 --> 41:09.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't believe what just happened.
[41:09.280 --> 41:09.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah.
[41:09.460 --> 41:10.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I got an ISDN line.
[41:10.820 --> 41:11.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, just now.
[41:12.060 --> 41:15.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I ordered it about a month ago.
[41:15.180 --> 41:15.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[41:15.640 --> 41:18.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they just, they just cut me off.
[41:18.440 --> 41:27.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, they took off my phone service out without letting me know, and they changed my phone jack to some big bulky thing that doesn't even work to them with my Motorola Bitserver Pro.
[41:28.540 --> 41:30.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I'm stuck with no phone for almost four days.
[41:30.840 --> 41:31.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're in the 20th century.
[41:33.000 --> 41:35.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where, what, what, what town, where are you exactly?
[41:35.760 --> 41:36.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in Long Island.
[41:36.880 --> 41:37.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Long Island.
[41:37.380 --> 41:38.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you'd be dealing with NYNEX then.
[41:38.960 --> 41:39.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
[41:39.540 --> 41:40.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: That happens.
[41:40.460 --> 41:41.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: That happens quite a bit.
[41:41.660 --> 41:44.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, have you talked to somebody at NYNEX about this?
[41:44.380 --> 41:46.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I talked to some woman in Syracuse.
[41:46.680 --> 41:47.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: What'd they say?
[41:47.860 --> 41:51.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: They just said, uh, they said, we'll get back to you tomorrow.
[41:51.720 --> 41:52.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[41:52.620 --> 41:53.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, this, this...
[41:53.720 --> 41:57.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there a number that you might know that I can talk to, like, I don't know, the central station or whatnot?
[41:57.560 --> 41:59.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just pissed.
[41:59.400 --> 42:05.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, they generally have gotten better with ISDN installations where, you know, they, they sort of know what they're talking about.
[42:06.260 --> 42:07.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Didn't they test the line when they put it in?
[42:08.340 --> 42:10.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was what, the guy said he was going to be back tomorrow.
[42:10.620 --> 42:11.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Never, I mean, meaning today.
[42:11.960 --> 42:12.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[42:12.300 --> 42:13.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, he never showed up.
[42:13.420 --> 42:15.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: So basically, he hasn't finished installing it, has he?
[42:15.780 --> 42:17.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I, everything, everything's connected.
[42:17.800 --> 42:18.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's two...
[42:18.680 --> 42:21.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: First, I don't know why they removed the RJ11 C-Jack.
[42:21.400 --> 42:24.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: But if they never came back, doesn't that mean they didn't finish?
[42:25.060 --> 42:26.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no, I had no dial tone.
[42:26.800 --> 42:27.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[42:27.320 --> 42:29.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: He said he had to test something out, but he was supposed to be back today.
[42:29.900 --> 42:30.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[42:30.500 --> 42:32.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You, you are, you are using ISDN equipment.
[42:33.020 --> 42:33.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[42:33.920 --> 42:35.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Motorola Bit Surfer and all that kind of thing.
[42:36.480 --> 42:42.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I'd just be on the phone with them constantly, and if, you know, if, if you don't get an answer by, say, tomorrow, you call the president's helpline.
[42:43.420 --> 42:43.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's that?
[42:44.220 --> 42:46.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's, uh, it's listed in the front of your phone book.
[42:46.360 --> 42:46.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is it?
[42:46.720 --> 42:46.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[42:47.160 --> 42:53.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the number that when you call them, they respond a lot quicker because, you know, they can get in a lot of trouble if they don't respond.
[42:53.740 --> 42:55.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I'm wondering if I should even use the ISDN line.
[42:55.800 --> 42:57.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, is it that big of an advantage?
[42:58.020 --> 43:00.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Once you have it working, it's great, you know, once, once you're able to...
[43:00.420 --> 43:02.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are they supposed to get two lines, two phone numbers, whatnot?
[43:02.720 --> 43:07.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and you can, you can connect at either 112 or 128 when you, you know, a couple or two of them together.
[43:07.920 --> 43:12.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, it's, it's, it's definitely worth it if, uh, you get it working.
[43:12.420 --> 43:12.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[43:12.800 --> 43:17.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just, I don't mean if you had a direct number to the, to the people who ever do it, because they don't give me the number.
[43:18.040 --> 43:19.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: They just said, oh, you just work on the repair and whatever.
[43:20.640 --> 43:25.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Being out with, without a phone for almost four days is like Chinese torture.
[43:25.500 --> 43:27.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did you have a phone before they did this?
[43:27.300 --> 43:27.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I had a phone.
[43:28.000 --> 43:32.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: I had a working phone, but they, they never called me for, um, for when they were supposed to install.
[43:32.800 --> 43:34.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: They said, your phone will be down, but we'll let you know.
[43:34.920 --> 43:37.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I come home one day and I don't have a phone and I assume...
[43:37.860 --> 43:41.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this, is this a conversion of an existing line to ISDN?
[43:41.960 --> 43:43.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a conversion, yes.
[43:43.380 --> 43:44.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: This was an original line.
[43:44.660 --> 43:47.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never actually seen that happen before in this possible 9x never has either.
[43:48.800 --> 43:49.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh...
[43:49.180 --> 43:51.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I had a line an existing line and they were just going to convert it.
[43:51.740 --> 43:53.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Obviously, you're talking to me now on a line.
[43:53.400 --> 43:54.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you not at home?
[43:54.200 --> 43:54.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[43:54.600 --> 43:55.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm at my office, actually.
[43:55.260 --> 43:55.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, okay.
[43:56.720 --> 43:57.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the thing.
[43:57.840 --> 43:59.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I listen to your station all the time.
[43:59.440 --> 44:00.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: What happens when you call your line?
[44:00.880 --> 44:01.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: It rings.
[44:01.600 --> 44:02.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just rings.
[44:02.420 --> 44:02.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[44:02.820 --> 44:03.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: But that doesn't mean anything.
[44:03.780 --> 44:04.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, of course not.
[44:05.740 --> 44:11.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I assume you've tried plugging into the, uh, the old analog setup that was there before.
[44:11.160 --> 44:11.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did you say they took the line?
[44:11.720 --> 44:17.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, he came in, he changed the RC11, RJ11C jack, and took it away.
[44:17.980 --> 44:20.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I wasn't in the house at the time.
[44:20.560 --> 44:20.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[44:21.140 --> 44:22.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: My parents were, whatever.
[44:22.720 --> 44:29.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, they just now don't have, now I have this big industrial bulky thing that's probably going to cost me 50 bucks, which I don't want.
[44:29.240 --> 44:31.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just make sure they don't start charging you until they get it to work.
[44:31.860 --> 44:35.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also make sure that you get credit for the, uh, for the line being out.
[44:36.400 --> 44:36.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know?
[44:37.080 --> 44:37.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[44:38.120 --> 44:42.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like, you can't even put the Motorola BitServer Pro to this jack because it doesn't even fit.
[44:42.760 --> 44:43.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, right.
[44:43.500 --> 44:45.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's not, it's not really designed for that.
[44:45.360 --> 44:47.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't even give me like a SPID or anything like that.
[44:48.040 --> 44:48.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[44:48.480 --> 44:53.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: You need to, you need to call them back and get all the information and speak to the ISDN people.
[44:53.140 --> 44:54.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: They should be able to connect you to that.
[44:55.500 --> 44:58.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now, let me ask you another question with the ISDN versus Cablevision.
[44:58.880 --> 44:59.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: I heard something about Cablevision.
[45:00.380 --> 45:03.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Cablevision offers, uh, some service in some areas.
[45:03.960 --> 45:05.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that, is that going to overcome ISDN?
[45:05.880 --> 45:07.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Am I, did I waste my money?
[45:07.360 --> 45:07.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or?
[45:07.760 --> 45:08.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not anytime soon.
[45:09.460 --> 45:15.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, getting Internet service over cable will be much, much faster in some regards.
[45:15.060 --> 45:18.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: but there are also disadvantages and it's really in the testing stage right now.
[45:19.360 --> 45:22.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think, no, you're making a good decision going with ISDN for the interim.
[45:23.360 --> 45:23.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[45:23.700 --> 45:25.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but don't expect to have it in five years.
[45:26.120 --> 45:27.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Who knows what's going to come along between now and then.
[45:28.000 --> 45:29.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: the technology changes.
[45:29.240 --> 45:29.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[45:29.340 --> 45:31.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's a lot better than a regular phone line.
[45:32.280 --> 45:32.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[45:32.840 --> 45:33.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right?
[45:33.360 --> 45:35.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: But don't let this, uh, I couldn't believe.
[45:36.040 --> 45:37.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I do it in like four days.
[45:37.860 --> 45:39.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you have a, do you have a service provider?
[45:39.620 --> 45:40.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I do.
[45:40.580 --> 45:40.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Specnet.
[45:41.120 --> 45:41.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[45:41.340 --> 45:42.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: And are they giving you a good price?
[45:42.780 --> 45:44.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: They give me, actually I had them for originally.
[45:45.100 --> 45:45.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know, that's another thing.
[45:46.000 --> 45:52.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I had to tell them that I'm getting an ISDN number, but they don't, I don't know, can I just dial into it?
[45:52.760 --> 45:53.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, does it change?
[45:54.480 --> 45:58.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, you should be able to program your Bitsurfer to just dial the number to just dial in.
[45:58.540 --> 45:59.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I don't have to tell them I got one, do I?
[46:00.280 --> 46:00.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry?
[46:00.800 --> 46:01.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do I have to tell them I got one?
[46:02.180 --> 46:03.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: That you, what, that you're on ISDN?
[46:03.860 --> 46:03.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:03.980 --> 46:04.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a different kind of service.
[46:11.340 --> 46:11.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, good luck.
[46:11.780 --> 46:11.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Have a good day.
[46:12.000 --> 46:12.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[46:13.200 --> 46:15.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: There should be support groups of people getting iced in.
[46:15.580 --> 46:17.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: It could be a traumatic experience.
[46:17.420 --> 46:17.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[46:17.840 --> 46:18.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[46:18.680 --> 46:18.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello?
[46:19.120 --> 46:19.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, go ahead.
[46:20.200 --> 46:20.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right.
[46:21.500 --> 46:25.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: I want to talk about the injustices about AOL.
[46:25.460 --> 46:26.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, let's talk about AOL.
[46:28.100 --> 46:29.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right, this is the thing, all right?
[46:30.200 --> 46:35.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're horrible, because you can never get on, and they prosecute you.
[46:36.200 --> 46:38.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Not really prosecute, but they kick you off.
[46:38.280 --> 46:45.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you go into a wares room, they totally watch you, and they just kick you off AOL.
[46:45.560 --> 46:47.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it's totally horrible.
[46:47.240 --> 46:54.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I never could understand this, because I never used AOL ever, but if you just go into a room, that's enough to get you kicked off?
[46:54.380 --> 46:58.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, you go into the room, and they have these things, like these bots called catwatches, right?
[46:58.800 --> 46:59.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[46:59.360 --> 47:03.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they only hunt down people who want wares and stuff.
[47:04.760 --> 47:07.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: You could be discussing anything else.
[47:07.660 --> 47:15.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: You could go into a porno room, anything else like that, even stuff that violates their own terms of service, and they won't kick you off.
[47:15.860 --> 47:17.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've tried all the possibilities, haven't you?
[47:17.920 --> 47:20.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, I've been into almost every single private room.
[47:20.880 --> 47:21.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, now, what happens?
[47:21.960 --> 47:26.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, when you go into a room that they don't want you to go into, is there a sign that you've done something wrong?
[47:26.940 --> 47:27.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you get warned?
[47:27.720 --> 47:27.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[47:27.960 --> 47:28.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: What happens?
[47:28.360 --> 47:30.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, okay, let's say there's, like, a restroom, right?
[47:30.920 --> 47:31.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: Mm-hmm.
[47:31.180 --> 47:33.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, I go inside, right, theoretically, of course.
[47:33.460 --> 47:37.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: I go inside, and, like, everything stays normal, right?
[47:37.120 --> 47:38.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then all of a sudden, you get, like, an email.
[47:39.640 --> 47:48.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, I don't know if it's instantly or if it's, like, the next day, because, like, like, but, like, because, like, the last time I got one was several months ago.
[47:48.980 --> 47:52.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Anyway, there's, like, you get an email from catwatcher1.
[47:52.760 --> 47:56.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's like, you have been caught in, like, a room where illegal activities happen.
[47:57.200 --> 47:58.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it's, like, on their own system, you know?
[47:59.160 --> 47:59.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[47:59.560 --> 48:00.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's, like, on their own AOL.
[48:00.680 --> 48:00.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[48:01.180 --> 48:04.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, now, is this the moment you go into the room you've committed a crime in their eyes?
[48:05.060 --> 48:05.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, like...
[48:05.540 --> 48:06.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or do you have to say something in the room?
[48:07.080 --> 48:08.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, like, you say anything.
[48:08.260 --> 48:09.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, you say hello, and, like, that's it.
[48:10.860 --> 48:12.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do they kick you off right then and there?
[48:12.920 --> 48:14.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, like, it depends.
[48:14.380 --> 48:24.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, some people have gone into, like, because, like, I've been into a restroom and, like, there's this room, like, I was in one restroom, right?
[48:24.460 --> 48:24.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right?
[48:25.220 --> 48:37.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, like, somebody said, oh, Catwatch is in, like, because, like, when somebody starts up a wares room, right, it goes, that, the name of the wares room, and then the name of the wares room, two, three, four, et cetera, right?
[48:37.380 --> 48:39.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, like, I was in the name of the wares room, two, right?
[48:40.120 --> 48:45.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then, like, somebody went in, somebody just came in, Catwatch is in that wares room, but part one, right?
[48:46.560 --> 48:56.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it's like, and then, like, somebody went, let me check, and then, like, all of a sudden, they got locked off, and they came back on, and he said, yeah, Catwatch was in there, because, like, Sometimes they just boot people off.
[48:56.580 --> 48:58.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: They don't terminate their accounts, they just boot them off.
[48:58.680 --> 49:01.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: But then when you get warned about three times, that's it.
[49:01.900 --> 49:03.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Your account just gets...
[49:03.240 --> 49:05.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: You'll try to sign on, and it'll go, invalid account.
[49:05.900 --> 49:07.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: And you can't even use it.
[49:07.300 --> 49:09.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Your account, everything gets terminated.
[49:09.620 --> 49:10.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: All your mail, everything.
[49:11.300 --> 49:19.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then, according to my friend, if you try to reactivate it, you have to write them a letter through snail mail.
[49:19.460 --> 49:22.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then you have to say, oh, I'm so sorry, and this and this and that.
[49:22.560 --> 49:23.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'll never do it again.
[49:23.260 --> 49:32.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: But once they try to reactivate a account, if they find one piece of wares, they turn you into the cops or something.
[49:32.700 --> 49:34.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: But this is just a rumor I've heard.
[49:34.700 --> 49:36.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me ask you a question, okay?
[49:36.240 --> 49:38.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I want you to think hard before you answer this question.
[49:39.800 --> 49:41.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why do you use AOL?
[49:42.420 --> 49:42.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wares.
[49:45.280 --> 49:45.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Simple.
[49:45.980 --> 49:47.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, look, are you...
[49:47.460 --> 49:49.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think you just made a whole lot of AOL people feel better.
[49:50.760 --> 49:51.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Simple, no.
[49:51.460 --> 49:53.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, I've been on IRC, right?
[49:53.820 --> 49:57.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm not like the stupid AOL user, like, uh, wow, you know?
[49:58.160 --> 49:59.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, you just...
[49:59.580 --> 50:00.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's so simple.
[50:00.460 --> 50:02.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, you just type in, like, a certain phrase, right?
[50:02.920 --> 50:06.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then all of a sudden, you get, like, 350 wares in your mailbox, you know?
[50:06.860 --> 50:11.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, somebody says, oh, type this certain phrase to get into, like, your certain...
[50:12.320 --> 50:13.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: To get, like, a certain amount of mail.
[50:13.680 --> 50:15.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, like, you just say, then, like, the next thing you...
[50:15.720 --> 50:21.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, within three minutes, or depending on how many minutes, uh, the person sends it out, he just forwards you the mail, and that's it.
[50:21.680 --> 50:23.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: But the thing is, AOL is, like, hypocrites.
[50:24.140 --> 50:24.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[50:24.520 --> 50:30.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, all the, like, look, like, you could be, like, the biggest child molester, and, like, they'll give you an account, right?
[50:30.380 --> 50:33.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, like, you go on, and, like, you know, like, you know, you've heard all the stories, right?
[50:33.980 --> 50:35.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, I don't have to tell you, like...
[50:35.040 --> 50:36.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently I haven't heard all the stories.
[50:36.400 --> 50:37.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, you've heard most of them, right?
[50:37.620 --> 50:39.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, the most publicized ones, right?
[50:39.800 --> 50:41.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, where, like, people got caught...
[50:41.540 --> 50:47.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, I heard somebody got caught in New York for, like, uh, like, throwing out, like, no, like, distributing kiddie porn.
[50:47.400 --> 50:47.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[50:47.580 --> 50:48.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: I know, right?
[50:48.400 --> 50:50.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: They have, like, rooms like that, like, crazy and stuff.
[50:50.600 --> 50:56.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean, the reason why there's so many, I would assume, is because they have so many customers, and just the proportion is larger.
[50:57.140 --> 50:59.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know, but, like, look, this is the thing, right?
[50:59.220 --> 51:01.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: They only go after people who, like, wears.
[51:01.660 --> 51:02.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's it.
[51:03.000 --> 51:04.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, those bots cat watch, right?
[51:04.660 --> 51:09.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'm sure if you get some, you know, child porn people up here, they'd say they're only going after the child porn people.
[51:09.340 --> 51:11.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, everybody's, like, you know, being victimized.
[51:11.620 --> 51:11.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, but they don't go after them at all.
[51:11.920 --> 51:12.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry?
[51:13.120 --> 51:16.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, there are no cat watch pots against them at all.
[51:16.600 --> 51:18.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe you're not spending enough time in those rooms.
[51:18.480 --> 51:19.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: Maybe they are, you know?
[51:19.660 --> 51:21.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, because, like, I've talked to everybody.
[51:21.480 --> 51:21.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh-huh.
[51:21.680 --> 51:26.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: They only go after wears, and especially after that supposedly AWL riot that failed.
[51:26.700 --> 51:26.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[51:27.200 --> 51:29.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Before, it was, like, um, like, three years before the riot.
[51:30.200 --> 51:32.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, they broke into, like, the best, uh, wears room.
[51:32.800 --> 51:33.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[51:33.380 --> 51:35.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, like, they just started throwing people off.
[51:35.120 --> 51:38.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: And now, like, uh, they started up a new one, right?
[51:38.820 --> 51:40.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it gets caught, like, right away.
[51:40.280 --> 51:40.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Everything just...
[51:40.880 --> 51:42.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I've got a question, all right?
[51:42.240 --> 51:42.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[51:42.420 --> 51:48.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is not, like, even, you know, considering the moral concerns here as to trading software and things like that.
[51:48.980 --> 51:52.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, now, the rooms that you go into, well, give me a name of one of the rooms.
[51:53.580 --> 51:59.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, well, one of the rooms, like, I can't see them over there, so I'll give you, like, the name of, like, of an old room.
[51:59.900 --> 52:00.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Cold Ice.
[52:00.880 --> 52:01.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[52:01.880 --> 52:02.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, Smoke.
[52:03.380 --> 52:03.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[52:05.720 --> 52:09.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: How do the AOL people find out what's going on inside those rooms?
[52:09.480 --> 52:10.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have no idea.
[52:11.420 --> 52:14.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: I, uh, like, I think, like, they, they have, like, like, private rooms, right?
[52:15.420 --> 52:16.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: You, uh, and AOL, right?
[52:16.920 --> 52:21.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, you, like, you, like, you just type in the name, and you get in, right?
[52:21.920 --> 52:24.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: And there's, like, only a maximum amount of 23 people.
[52:24.600 --> 52:27.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I guess, like, they, and there's, like, no list of private rooms, right?
[52:27.580 --> 52:32.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I guess, like, they're, they're working at AOL, they get to see, like, a huge list of, like, every single AOL room, right?
[52:32.920 --> 52:34.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they must be monitoring in some way.
[52:34.500 --> 52:35.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I would imagine they are.
[52:35.880 --> 52:38.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, I think they have, like, a list of private rooms or something.
[52:38.540 --> 52:42.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, like, when they get... when, like, the private room goes up to, like, 12, you know what I mean?
[52:42.500 --> 52:44.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's, like, more than 230 people there.
[52:44.520 --> 52:45.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: They get suspicious.
[52:45.560 --> 52:48.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they just, like, walk in and it's stuff, like, with their little cat watch bots.
[52:49.060 --> 52:50.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: The next thing you know, your account is terminated.
[52:51.480 --> 52:56.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I get mail occasionally from people that have gotten warning letters from that cat watch.
[52:56.600 --> 53:03.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, the weird thing was that the last time I got a message like that, the mail actually came from cat watch at AOL.
[53:03.920 --> 53:13.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm wondering, either this cat watch bot has decided to copy mail to me every time it kicks somebody off, or somebody hacked into AOL, into the cat watch account.
[53:13.480 --> 53:13.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know.
[53:14.260 --> 53:16.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: All I know is that, like, they're hypocrites.
[53:16.380 --> 53:18.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, they only want to bust people in wares.
[53:18.840 --> 53:20.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it's like, Steve Case is, like, revenge.
[53:21.200 --> 53:23.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, he's like the devil.
[53:24.000 --> 53:27.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe you're going a little far with that, but...
[53:27.300 --> 53:30.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, look, this is the way it used to be, right?
[53:30.520 --> 53:31.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right.
[53:31.860 --> 53:35.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: Whereas, like, the prior room name, where's, like, that was too obvious, right?
[53:35.640 --> 53:36.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: It was a bit obvious, yeah.
[53:36.700 --> 53:38.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, well, somebody made creative codex, right?
[53:39.100 --> 53:41.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Then, like, that lasted for, like, a year or two, right?
[53:42.240 --> 53:44.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then, like, he didn't, like, nobody cared.
[53:44.280 --> 53:45.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Nobody, like...
[53:45.440 --> 53:47.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Then, like, I heard about, like, a previous ride.
[53:47.920 --> 53:48.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[53:49.120 --> 53:50.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then, like, that room got busted.
[53:50.940 --> 53:54.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Then, like, three days before, like, this AOL ride, right?
[53:55.200 --> 53:55.500]  Uh-huh.
[53:57.140 --> 53:59.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: The new room after Koldyce?
[53:59.400 --> 54:03.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: I can't say it, because it'll probably be censored, right?
[54:03.580 --> 54:04.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, yeah, it probably would be.
[54:04.940 --> 54:06.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: But let me just ask you a question.
[54:07.240 --> 54:09.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Put yourself in AOL's shoes, okay?
[54:09.160 --> 54:13.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've got all these people running around, trading illegal software, illegal in their eyes, certainly.
[54:13.760 --> 54:14.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: How would you deal with the situation?
[54:15.120 --> 54:15.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: What should they do?
[54:15.900 --> 54:16.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Leave it be.
[54:16.940 --> 54:17.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just let it alone.
[54:17.780 --> 54:18.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't do anything.
[54:18.500 --> 54:18.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[54:18.980 --> 54:21.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, you don't see anybody on IRC servers doing anything.
[54:22.100 --> 54:25.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's because IRC is not run by one particular system.
[54:25.500 --> 54:31.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: Not really, because, like, IDT has, like, IRCs.
[54:31.300 --> 54:33.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, if you were running your own system, right?
[54:33.120 --> 54:35.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's say you're running a system in your house, a bulletin board or something like that.
[54:36.680 --> 54:43.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And all these people started trading software on it, putting you at risk, because you become a trading ground for software.
[54:43.600 --> 54:44.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: What would you do?
[54:44.280 --> 54:45.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Would you tell them to go somewhere else?
[54:45.320 --> 54:46.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Would you tell them not to do it?
[54:46.300 --> 54:47.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Would you tell them to hide better or what?
[54:47.800 --> 54:48.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, but you see, that's the difference.
[54:49.060 --> 54:50.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's like the response...
[54:50.140 --> 54:55.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, they're not, like, supposed to, because, like, they're, like, violating the rights.
[54:55.620 --> 54:56.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: You understand?
[54:56.180 --> 54:58.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, they're not allowed to, like, monitor people, you know?
[54:59.080 --> 54:59.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[54:59.740 --> 55:01.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at the terms of the contract.
[55:01.740 --> 55:02.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe they are.
[55:02.320 --> 55:06.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, when you sign up for a company, you're basically accepting their terms.
[55:06.560 --> 55:09.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: I know, but, like, they have so many legal loopholes.
[55:09.220 --> 55:10.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, like, this is the thing, right?
[55:10.440 --> 55:12.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: They only go after, like, one type of people.
[55:12.840 --> 55:13.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, they only go after wares.
[55:13.780 --> 55:17.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, you could do anything you want, except, like, trade wares or piss off a guy.
[55:17.980 --> 55:18.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's it.
[55:18.740 --> 55:20.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, you could do anything.
[55:20.300 --> 55:27.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, you could, like, do whatever the hell you want in the chat rooms, except piss off a guide or, like, trade wares.
[55:27.720 --> 55:28.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's it.
[55:28.380 --> 55:33.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, like, they're like, I don't know.
[55:33.680 --> 55:37.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, there's so many, like, wares rooms, right?
[55:37.160 --> 55:40.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's gotten to the point, like, where it's crazy.
[55:40.480 --> 55:46.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, like, they had to make, like, a wares room generator, which generates, like, a new wares room every day.
[55:46.780 --> 55:47.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[55:47.580 --> 55:49.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Depending on, like, the day, using some sort of algorithm.
[55:50.040 --> 55:50.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's crazy.
[55:50.680 --> 55:53.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: It does seem to be a problem for the wares people there.
[55:53.500 --> 55:54.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't know.
[55:54.760 --> 55:57.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I'm trying to look at this from both points of view.
[55:57.060 --> 56:05.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I could see AOL being concerned, and I'm not quite sure how they should deal with it, because I don't really know how their service works and what you agree to when you sign up for it.
[56:05.460 --> 56:11.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, if I were you, I'd look at alternatives, because it doesn't seem like AOL is really, you know, a very happy place for wares traders.
[56:12.540 --> 56:15.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know, because, like, I really, like, I'm not, like, a wares trader.
[56:15.740 --> 56:17.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, I'm not even an wares group.
[56:17.380 --> 56:20.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just, like, like, like to test out stuff, right, before I buy it.
[56:20.880 --> 56:21.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right, yeah.
[56:21.280 --> 56:23.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: I know, you know, all the arguments for that.
[56:23.720 --> 56:24.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know?
[56:24.500 --> 56:31.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: But, I mean, like, it's, like, I mean, like, it's, like, so good, but, like, it's, like, it's, like, it's, like, a minefield, you know?
[56:32.040 --> 56:34.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, it's, like, a minefield for the gold, you know?
[56:34.240 --> 56:38.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, like, everywhere are, like, these AOL catbots, you know, catwatch bots.
[56:38.900 --> 56:41.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, like, everywhere is, like, you know, where's...
[56:41.340 --> 56:44.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, for Christ's sake, I have, like, Windows 97 in my mailbox.
[56:46.040 --> 56:46.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[56:46.540 --> 56:46.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay.
[56:47.160 --> 56:48.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if we need to know that.
[56:48.500 --> 56:49.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, um... All right.
[56:49.660 --> 56:51.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, anyway, we're out of time.
[56:51.200 --> 56:54.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, I want to wish you luck in your pursuits.
[56:55.960 --> 56:59.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh... I don't quite know what those pursuits will wind up doing, but, uh...
[57:00.380 --> 57:02.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Interesting... Interesting, um, things going on in AOL.
[57:02.760 --> 57:03.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, all right.
[57:04.000 --> 57:05.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's going to do it for us here tonight.
[57:05.500 --> 57:08.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be back again next week with another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[57:08.400 --> 57:10.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, until then, have yourselves a good week.
[57:10.980 --> 57:11.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you then.
[57:11.680 --> 57:11.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.