Off The Hook - 1997-03-11

[00:02.200 --> 00:02.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...right-wing...
[00:02.880 --> 00:04.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to have to leave it there.
[00:04.620 --> 00:07.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...where they had never joined together on an issue in their life before.
[00:08.140 --> 00:09.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Robert, we're out of time.
[00:09.480 --> 00:10.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're lucky that that happened, you know?
[00:10.460 --> 00:17.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yep, and we are lucky we had a chance to speak with you and those who would like to dig into it more Thursday, this Thursday, 8 o'clock at the We the People.
[00:17.120 --> 00:20.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, come on down and debate about how terroristic the hell of a woman was.
[00:20.180 --> 00:20.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: I would love it.
[00:20.740 --> 00:23.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mr. Jerry, can I give the 800 number to the conference?
[00:23.500 --> 00:23.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, quick.
[00:23.800 --> 00:24.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Quick.
[00:24.280 --> 00:34.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: The peace... the non-violence conference, if you're interested in it and want info, want to register, you can call 800-937-8728.
[00:37.060 --> 00:37.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: 937-8728.
[00:38.080 --> 00:38.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's it.
[00:38.520 --> 00:39.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Robert Thurman, thanks a lot.
[00:39.920 --> 00:41.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Jim Bennett for engineering.
[00:41.280 --> 00:42.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mo Irwin for producing.
[00:42.620 --> 00:43.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll be with you tomorrow.
[00:43.900 --> 00:44.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good night.
[00:51.790 --> 00:56.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: The beginning was the beat, and the beat was the rhythm of God, and the rhythm of God is the harmony of humanity.
[00:57.050 --> 00:59.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: And where there is harmony, there is peace.
[01:07.640 --> 01:10.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Join the drummer's circle for night drum.
[01:10.820 --> 01:20.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Alternate Tuesday nights into Wednesday mornings, from 3.30 until 6 a.m., over listener-sponsored community radio, WBAI.
[01:20.180 --> 01:23.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: From Africa to America.
[01:23.660 --> 01:24.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[01:24.400 --> 01:26.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: We are the drum feet.
[01:26.540 --> 01:27.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: We are the drums.
[01:27.880 --> 01:31.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: From the beginning of the mother, we are civilization during the Dark Ages.
[01:31.840 --> 01:35.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: We are kings and queens with land that stretch from ocean to ocean.
[01:35.720 --> 01:40.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the mighty now flows from the south at Lake Victoria, where Eve is called Lucy.
[01:40.520 --> 01:43.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Northwards to Egypt, where Moses went down to the get-down.
[01:43.620 --> 01:44.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: From the south to the north.
[01:45.220 --> 01:46.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, moving up the right way.
[01:46.800 --> 01:48.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: We are all that, and...
[01:50.460 --> 01:52.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow, that was a cold ending there, wasn't it?
[01:52.400 --> 01:53.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, it's 8 o'clock.
[01:53.700 --> 01:57.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Time for another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[02:02.070 --> 02:06.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[02:07.370 --> 02:11.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[02:12.450 --> 02:14.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: It couldn't get much worse.
[02:15.050 --> 02:15.650]  I
[02:20.980 --> 02:23.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: hope that's understood, but I'm doing it now.
[02:33.280 --> 02:34.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a good evening to everybody.
[02:34.720 --> 02:50.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to try and start things up right away so we can get through the show with as many phone calls as possible, because last week, of course, we started to deal with the crisis facing New York City with the robbery, the taking away of the 212 area code.
[02:51.440 --> 03:02.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a lot of people are very upset of seeing people in the street that have been emotionally affected by this, and, of course, they want more time to speak out, so, of course, we'll be taking more phone calls from that Phiber.
[03:02.880 --> 03:07.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have you seen much of an outpouring of, you know, human emotion out there?
[03:07.220 --> 03:10.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, actually, most people at large have no idea.
[03:11.260 --> 03:13.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah, you don't see that?
[03:13.420 --> 03:16.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, by having absolutely no idea, they're reacting.
[03:16.840 --> 03:19.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah, once I tell them, they're even more enraged.
[03:19.280 --> 03:19.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[03:20.000 --> 03:23.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: People don't know what's going on, and when you tell them, then they react.
[03:23.180 --> 03:25.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't like 646 at all.
[03:25.340 --> 03:28.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, and in case you don't know what we're talking about, too bad.
[03:30.120 --> 03:33.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you didn't listen last week, obviously, if you don't know what we're talking about.
[03:34.080 --> 03:37.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, to make it real quick, 212 is going to be split next year, somehow.
[03:37.820 --> 03:38.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't know how.
[03:38.820 --> 03:47.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's the uptown split, there's the middle of the island split, there's the downtown split, there's the L-shaped split, the quasi-L-shaped, there's the overlay split.
[03:47.420 --> 03:49.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's all kinds of ways of doing this.
[03:49.340 --> 03:58.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, I think the idea that we sort of brought up last week, and which I since found out was brought up a few years ago, is the best one.
[03:58.900 --> 04:00.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's to go with four-digit area codes.
[04:00.700 --> 04:02.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think that really makes a lot of sense, you know?
[04:03.640 --> 04:05.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: 718 could have been 2122.
[04:07.400 --> 04:12.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212 would have been 2121, and then this new split would be 2123, or 917 would be 2123, this one would be 2124.
[04:12.960 --> 04:14.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'd all still be 212ers.
[04:14.440 --> 04:16.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there's good points and bad points to that.
[04:17.100 --> 04:18.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are no bad points to that.
[04:18.320 --> 04:20.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, there's one major bad point to that.
[04:20.280 --> 04:21.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: What, that you have to dial an extra digit?
[04:21.720 --> 04:22.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Boo-hoo.
[04:22.100 --> 04:26.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, you're looking at it from the perspective of the customer, not from the perspective of the phone companies.
[04:26.060 --> 04:28.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, gosh darn it all, that's who matters here, isn't it?
[04:28.300 --> 04:28.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: The customer.
[04:28.940 --> 04:29.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah.
[04:29.520 --> 04:30.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Who are we supposed to be looking at?
[04:30.200 --> 04:34.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some cranky engineer in a central office someplace that has to program a few extra buttons?
[04:34.080 --> 04:41.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, but a couple of hundred engineers who have to change it in the hundred or so tandem and toll switches throughout the country.
[04:41.980 --> 04:45.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, if they were on the Starship Enterprise, it would be considered a challenge, all right?
[04:45.560 --> 04:45.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[04:45.900 --> 04:48.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're working for NYNEX or Bell Atlantic or whatever, and all of a sudden it's the hardest thing in the world.
[04:48.900 --> 04:52.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but NYNEX can't reroute the calls through the main deflector dish and make everything work properly.
[04:52.800 --> 04:55.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give them 20 minutes until meltdown, and they'll get it done.
[04:57.580 --> 04:58.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what it's all about.
[04:58.980 --> 05:01.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Any other bad points besides a slight inconvenience to some workers?
[05:02.920 --> 05:09.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, that's going to be the major thing, is that it's a lot easier to add one more three-digit area code than it is to change all of them to four digits.
[05:09.240 --> 05:12.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, but if you change all of them to four digits, you don't have to keep splitting like this.
[05:12.620 --> 05:13.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I agree.
[05:13.440 --> 05:14.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ultimately, it will have to be done.
[05:15.220 --> 05:17.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you see, ultimately, it will be too late.
[05:18.240 --> 05:19.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me tell you what I did this last week.
[05:19.720 --> 05:20.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: I drove out to Chicago.
[05:20.700 --> 05:20.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: I did.
[05:20.960 --> 05:21.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I drove to Chicago.
[05:21.840 --> 05:22.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I believe you.
[05:22.280 --> 05:22.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: You called me from there.
[05:23.220 --> 05:25.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and what area code did I call you from?
[05:25.260 --> 05:27.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: You called me from some area code I never even heard of.
[05:27.380 --> 05:28.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you can't remember, can you?
[05:28.720 --> 05:30.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't... it was something like 847...
[05:30.700 --> 05:31.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's exactly what it was.
[05:31.480 --> 05:31.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: You did remember.
[05:31.760 --> 05:32.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I did remember.
[05:32.520 --> 05:33.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're in your photographic memory, yeah.
[05:33.680 --> 05:33.680]  Yeah.
[05:34.360 --> 05:36.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, 847 is where I called you from.
[05:36.460 --> 05:37.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's by the airport.
[05:37.940 --> 05:39.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't ask how I wound up by the airport, but I did.
[05:40.380 --> 05:41.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: 847, but that's not all.
[05:42.060 --> 05:43.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Chicago is in worse shape than we are.
[05:44.140 --> 05:45.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: They split so many times.
[05:45.680 --> 05:49.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's... you can't even see the city anymore on the area code map.
[05:50.380 --> 05:52.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: 312 split to 708.
[05:52.740 --> 05:54.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a 630 there now.
[05:54.760 --> 05:58.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's the 847, and there's also a 773, I think.
[05:58.680 --> 06:04.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I asked many different people where the demarcations are for all these area codes, and I didn't get the same answer twice.
[06:05.380 --> 06:10.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nobody seems to know where the boundaries are, and everybody, when they're giving out their phone numbers, they just give all 10 digits out to everybody.
[06:10.540 --> 06:11.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, even if you're...
[06:11.820 --> 06:17.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, the most shocking example of this was when I saw somebody ordering a pizza, and they gave us their callback number a number with the area code in it.
[06:17.840 --> 06:21.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: They were so unsure, they didn't even know if the pizza place down the block was in a different area code.
[06:21.880 --> 06:23.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do we want to live like this?
[06:23.260 --> 06:23.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[06:23.660 --> 06:24.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think so.
[06:24.680 --> 06:25.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I do not think so.
[06:26.560 --> 06:31.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think someone could get elected to office just on the basis that he will preserve 2-1-2.
[06:32.480 --> 06:33.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Clean up the area code mess.
[06:34.000 --> 06:38.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if anyone out there is still thinking of running for mayor, this could be a good platform to run on.
[06:40.420 --> 06:42.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think, you know, it could be done now.
[06:42.800 --> 06:50.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think if enough people stood up and said, you know, when they go to the PSC hearings or whatever that this is silly, that we've got to go to four-digit area codes, who knows?
[06:50.260 --> 06:55.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: It might actually spur a change that will turn into some sort of maverick movement throughout the United States.
[06:56.640 --> 06:57.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can hope, right?
[06:58.640 --> 06:59.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we can hope, yeah.
[07:00.000 --> 07:03.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, anyway, yeah, that's what I did.
[07:03.460 --> 07:05.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I went out to Chicago and looked at their phones out there.
[07:06.200 --> 07:08.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I didn't find out much about PCS service.
[07:09.960 --> 07:11.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: GSM phone service.
[07:11.440 --> 07:12.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I don't know how existent it is.
[07:13.040 --> 07:15.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, there's got to be some company out there.
[07:15.320 --> 07:16.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure who they are.
[07:16.120 --> 07:16.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've heard rumors.
[07:17.200 --> 07:18.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've heard rumors that it exists.
[07:18.640 --> 07:25.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, again, nobody really knows for sure if there is a company out there that gives you that kind of phone service.
[07:26.060 --> 07:27.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, we could track it down, probably.
[07:27.900 --> 07:35.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's enough GSM websites now that try to catalog what companies pop up that actually have GSM service.
[07:35.800 --> 07:40.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I did see an Internet service provider on a billboard called Flash.net.
[07:41.140 --> 07:44.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they offered unlimited Internet access for guess how much?
[07:44.840 --> 07:46.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: For $19.95 a month.
[07:47.040 --> 07:49.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, try $8.25 a month.
[07:49.840 --> 07:50.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unbelievable.
[07:50.660 --> 07:52.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: They cut the cost in half.
[07:52.280 --> 07:53.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, in a year, they'll be paying you.
[07:54.920 --> 07:56.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's going down so fast.
[07:57.240 --> 07:58.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: $8.25.
[07:58.320 --> 07:59.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I don't know what kind of service they offer.
[08:00.100 --> 08:00.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never heard of it before.
[08:01.120 --> 08:01.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, did you hear this?
[08:02.360 --> 08:03.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: America Online, right?
[08:03.740 --> 08:03.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[08:04.100 --> 08:07.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have commercials now for Earthlink on radio.
[08:07.980 --> 08:10.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the guy whose voice is on AOL.
[08:10.860 --> 08:13.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the guy that says, you have mail, and goodbye, and all that kind of thing.
[08:13.580 --> 08:13.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[08:13.780 --> 08:15.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's now a spokesperson for Earthlink.
[08:15.920 --> 08:19.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he's telling people to say goodbye to AOL.
[08:19.980 --> 08:20.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[08:20.560 --> 08:22.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, they're going to sue over that.
[08:22.240 --> 08:22.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[08:22.680 --> 08:25.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't like AOL, and I think they've got a case here.
[08:25.280 --> 08:29.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you know, they're using something that's AOL to mock AOL.
[08:29.440 --> 08:39.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but just think, in such a short time, he's, like, reached the upper echelons of legendary voices as the Meridian Mail Lady or the AT&T Recording Lady.
[08:39.300 --> 08:39.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[08:40.460 --> 08:40.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[08:41.240 --> 08:42.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: She's pretty cool, you know.
[08:42.480 --> 08:42.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[08:42.860 --> 08:43.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: She is.
[08:44.920 --> 08:46.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, regardless, yeah.
[08:46.660 --> 08:47.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, they own his voice.
[08:47.700 --> 08:48.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: He can't use his voice.
[08:48.820 --> 08:48.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[08:49.280 --> 08:49.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's just no way.
[08:51.000 --> 08:51.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: No way at all.
[08:53.380 --> 08:56.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, any updates on PCS?
[08:56.500 --> 08:59.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, actually, there's a new consortium was formed.
[08:59.500 --> 09:00.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's called...
[09:00.880 --> 09:02.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it something with the fox?
[09:02.880 --> 09:03.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no.
[09:03.980 --> 09:04.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're not foxing this week?
[09:04.560 --> 09:07.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, this is actually a consortium of GSM companies.
[09:07.820 --> 09:08.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[09:09.040 --> 09:12.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's actually the aptly named GSM North America.
[09:12.740 --> 09:13.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, really?
[09:13.580 --> 09:13.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[09:14.040 --> 09:14.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[09:15.060 --> 09:24.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And GSM North America is actually chaired by the president and CEO of Pacific Bell Mobile Services, which is one of the GSM countries in our fine nation.
[09:24.440 --> 09:24.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[09:26.020 --> 09:27.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, tell us, what is the difference?
[09:27.620 --> 09:28.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: A few people have been asking this.
[09:29.100 --> 09:30.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: The difference between GSM and PCS?
[09:30.920 --> 09:39.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, actually, in North America, okay, there is no real difference, since we never had any older GSM network.
[09:39.580 --> 09:40.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[09:40.120 --> 09:56.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: The introduction to GSM in the United States is for the purposes of providing personal communication services, which are things like sending and receiving email from your handset, sending station-to-station messages between handsets, receiving news updates,
[09:57.120 --> 10:01.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: and getting stock quotes, as well as being able to make telephone calls, of course.
[10:01.420 --> 10:01.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[10:01.660 --> 10:03.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: That always adds to me the thrill of it.
[10:04.040 --> 10:18.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: But in other places around the world, such as in England, there is a more dated GSM network that was in place before they offered any personal communication services, so to speak.
[10:18.900 --> 10:20.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know what frequency they operate on?
[10:20.120 --> 10:20.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[10:21.180 --> 10:22.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: It would be 900 megahertz.
[10:23.080 --> 10:23.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: 900, okay.
[10:23.560 --> 10:24.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: In England, yeah.
[10:24.300 --> 10:24.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[10:24.520 --> 10:29.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: They also have a newer English GSM network, which they don't call GSM.
[10:30.000 --> 10:33.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: They call it PCN, the Personal Communications Network.
[10:33.220 --> 10:34.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's the 1800 megahertz one.
[10:34.340 --> 10:37.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the 1800 one, which we call DCS-1800.
[10:38.100 --> 10:39.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: We call it DCS, not PCS.
[10:39.900 --> 10:41.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, we call it DCS-1800.
[10:41.340 --> 10:42.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know Bell South called it DCS.
[10:42.380 --> 10:43.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're confused.
[10:44.000 --> 10:44.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[10:44.920 --> 10:48.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, Bell South calls their 1900 megahertz servers DCS.
[10:48.680 --> 10:55.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: The 1900 megahertz one is our one and only GSM network, which is also a personal communication services network.
[10:56.040 --> 11:04.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, just to confuse everybody even more, the AT&T pseudo-PCS service that they've been spouting, you know, that actually is not really PCS.
[11:04.280 --> 11:05.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: We defined that last week.
[11:05.480 --> 11:07.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I saw an ad for them this week.
[11:07.600 --> 11:14.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it said, if you want to use their service, you can use your own phone, but a PCS phone is required.
[11:14.800 --> 11:19.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, your PCS phone, by your definition, would not work on their system, would it?
[11:19.340 --> 11:20.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, what is that?
[11:20.360 --> 11:21.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just false advertising?
[11:21.360 --> 11:23.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or is it possible they're offering it and we don't know it?
[11:23.600 --> 11:28.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's confusing advertising because what you'd need is...
[11:28.000 --> 11:29.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are already phones out there.
[11:29.840 --> 11:32.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are already cellular phones that can do both analog and digital.
[11:33.480 --> 11:51.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: What AT&T is calling PCS is basically offering new services that obviously would require newer phones, which I'll explain in a second, and also requires newer software to be installed on the older digital switches using the DAMPS network, the digital advanced mobile phone service network.
[11:52.400 --> 12:02.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that was basically just a retrofit of AMPS, which is the honest-to-goodness analog cellular network that we still use and that people get cloned on every day.
[12:02.860 --> 12:12.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, the, uh, the thing with, with, uh, PCS over DAMPS is that the handsets themselves actually have to support these new services.
[12:13.060 --> 12:17.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just like my handset supports the sending and receiving of email and so on.
[12:18.120 --> 12:24.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Those protocols have to be implemented in the phone and in the switch, no matter what the underlying communication protocol is.
[12:24.720 --> 12:30.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whether it's, uh, you know, a revamped, uh, digital network or whether it's a true GSM network.
[12:31.420 --> 12:39.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, so, D-AMPS, so PCS over D-AMPS is one thing, which I don't really think should be called PCS because it's very confusing to people.
[12:40.040 --> 12:43.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think PCS should remain associated with GSM alone.
[12:44.140 --> 12:48.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I get the feeling that people behind this whole PCS mess are the same people behind the area code mess.
[12:48.620 --> 12:50.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're just out to confuse everybody.
[12:51.240 --> 12:52.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think, I think...
[12:52.320 --> 12:53.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Try explaining this to somebody, you know?
[12:53.680 --> 13:04.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: The thing is, PCS is, is becoming such a, such a buzzword, and I'm sure it'll, it'll continue to do so, that a lot of companies are, are rushing to define exactly what PCS is.
[13:04.260 --> 13:04.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[13:04.860 --> 13:15.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that, well, most of the rest of us who jumped on the bandwagon earlier, as well as the people overseas, have, uh, already defined, uh, you know, what personal communication services are.
[13:16.660 --> 13:21.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, other companies are, are, in the United States are trying to, to define exactly what they, what they mean.
[13:21.860 --> 13:23.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: How was that bandwagon you jumped on?
[13:23.320 --> 13:24.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, it's doing great.
[13:24.880 --> 13:25.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, any breaks on it?
[13:26.080 --> 13:28.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nope, I haven't, I haven't had, uh, haven't had any problems.
[13:28.760 --> 13:30.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, that's good, that's good.
[13:30.720 --> 13:32.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, speaking of three-letter acronyms, DVDs.
[13:32.900 --> 13:34.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hear they're available at PCRichards.
[13:35.200 --> 13:35.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[13:35.620 --> 13:44.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody told me that they saw an ad for it, and, um, I don't know if that means that's a place to go when they are available, if they're available right now, but from what I hear, they are available in some places.
[13:45.320 --> 13:48.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if anyone out there has had an experience with DVDs, please let us know.
[13:48.640 --> 13:50.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do they sell players at PCRichards?
[13:50.640 --> 13:52.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I'm not really sure.
[13:52.000 --> 13:53.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I imagine they have to.
[13:53.360 --> 13:54.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: If they sell DVDs...
[13:54.640 --> 13:55.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: It would be great if you could buy the...
[13:55.140 --> 13:57.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you could pretty much sell any kind of disc and say it's a DVD.
[13:57.720 --> 13:59.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you don't have the player for it, no one's going to know for sure.
[13:59.940 --> 14:01.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I think they do.
[14:01.340 --> 14:02.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not saying for sure.
[14:02.920 --> 14:09.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if they're still open, so maybe somebody listening to the show can zip out in their car and check and zip back or use their cellular phone and call us and let us know.
[14:09.720 --> 14:10.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: That would be kind of cool.
[14:10.640 --> 14:17.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: It seems kind of premature to invest in something like that now, especially since they don't even have the higher density or the double-sided discs yet.
[14:17.440 --> 14:21.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's never premature to be the first person on your block to buy something that could one day be obsolete.
[14:21.020 --> 14:22.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, like Betamax.
[14:22.820 --> 14:23.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[14:23.620 --> 14:25.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know how cool you are if you have a Betamax?
[14:25.640 --> 14:26.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you are.
[14:26.500 --> 14:28.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I know a couple people who have those, and they are cool.
[14:29.000 --> 14:30.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's like having a Hula dancer lamp.
[14:31.300 --> 14:32.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: You got one of those?
[14:32.260 --> 14:32.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[14:32.660 --> 14:32.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[14:33.740 --> 14:34.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, yes.
[14:34.480 --> 14:43.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know that since America Online announced their flat rate, a couple of companies have been countering with a different kind of tactic.
[14:44.700 --> 14:47.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Netcom is now planning on charging by the hour.
[14:48.120 --> 14:48.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[14:48.360 --> 14:51.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: They've used their own logic against you.
[14:51.220 --> 14:51.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't that weird?
[14:52.240 --> 15:01.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, Netcom was for the longest time offering a set rate for unlimited hours, and now they're going to charge by the hour because AOL decided not to charge by the hour.
[15:01.920 --> 15:14.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't know if they think that's going to work better for them or not, but they say we're at 8 million subscribers, we get a $20 subscription fee for each of them, and we're just breaking even.
[15:15.540 --> 15:18.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: What does that tell you about someone with half a million subscribers?
[15:19.560 --> 15:20.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[15:20.780 --> 15:22.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: What does it tell you?
[15:22.880 --> 15:27.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not quite sure what the point is, but I think, you know, they must be wasting money or something.
[15:28.260 --> 15:30.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, just think of AOL and Netcom as matter and anti-matter.
[15:30.920 --> 15:32.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're eventually going to annihilate each other.
[15:33.220 --> 15:33.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think so.
[15:34.100 --> 15:34.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think so.
[15:34.680 --> 15:35.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: It sure looks that way.
[15:36.940 --> 15:37.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: How sad.
[15:37.840 --> 15:40.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, I think people are used to the flat fee.
[15:40.720 --> 15:41.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think that's ever going to go away.
[15:42.000 --> 15:42.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, why would anybody...
[15:42.880 --> 15:46.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can get Internet service for $8.25, you know, a month, unlimited.
[15:46.420 --> 15:48.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why would anybody decide to pay Netcom an hourly fee?
[15:49.320 --> 15:52.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where's the business, you know, logic in that?
[15:52.120 --> 15:53.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't see it anywhere.
[15:54.800 --> 16:06.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speaking of new phone services, which we're not doing, Sprint has a brand new type of phone service, and it's called Total Voice.
[16:06.160 --> 16:07.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want to try to guess what Total Voice is all about?
[16:07.820 --> 16:13.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Total Voice has something to do with their global digital network, something or other.
[16:13.460 --> 16:13.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[16:14.180 --> 16:14.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[16:14.740 --> 16:15.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just guessing.
[16:15.440 --> 16:16.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, sure.
[16:17.400 --> 16:22.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: But basically, it's on the idea that you've got better things to do than dial.
[16:23.680 --> 16:25.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, is it voice-activated dial?
[16:25.140 --> 16:25.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[16:25.660 --> 16:26.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's voice-activated.
[16:26.240 --> 16:31.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's now available statewide to more than 1.4 million Sprint Florida customers.
[16:32.280 --> 16:40.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a voice-activated service that lets a customer make a call simply by speaking a name into a phone, whether the call is local, long-distance, or even international.
[16:41.320 --> 16:47.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: This new service offers an end to trying to remember multiple phone numbers, changing area codes, and lengthy international codes.
[16:48.400 --> 16:50.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, NYNEX has the same exact service.
[16:50.660 --> 16:50.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[16:50.980 --> 16:52.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they've had it for years.
[16:52.280 --> 16:53.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's really nothing new.
[16:54.100 --> 16:58.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the thing is that it's at the switch in NYNEX, so it doesn't matter what long-distance company you use.
[16:58.880 --> 16:59.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[16:59.060 --> 17:00.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can even program in a carrier access code.
[17:00.800 --> 17:03.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but aren't they talking about Sprint offering local service in Florida?
[17:03.680 --> 17:05.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think that's also part of the story.
[17:05.920 --> 17:06.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[17:06.220 --> 17:07.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they're really pushing this voice thing.
[17:07.900 --> 17:11.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Total voice customers create their own personalized directory of up to 25 names.
[17:11.500 --> 17:12.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: NYNEX has up to 50.
[17:12.840 --> 17:13.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[17:13.620 --> 17:16.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Simply by following a short series of easy-to-follow prompts.
[17:16.940 --> 17:21.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Then when a customer is ready to make a call, he or she simply gives a spoken command and the call is made.
[17:23.440 --> 17:24.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there's nothing new here.
[17:25.980 --> 17:29.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's really nothing new at all because this service has been offered by the local phone companies.
[17:29.500 --> 17:33.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's one thing I'd like to see, and that's a duress indicator.
[17:34.140 --> 17:34.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah.
[17:34.600 --> 17:40.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's say, for example, that somebody breaks into your home, forces you to call someone under false pretenses.
[17:40.800 --> 17:42.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Your voice will sound different, and it should be able to detect that.
[17:42.960 --> 17:53.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: It should be able to detect the panic in your voice and have a pre-ring indicator so that when the person hears the phone ringing, it might ring at a different pattern or something.
[17:53.900 --> 17:56.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: When they answer the phone, then they know that something's wrong.
[17:56.220 --> 17:57.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: They know it's a call made under duress.
[17:57.740 --> 17:58.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Under duress, exactly.
[17:58.520 --> 18:00.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie S., are you with us?
[18:00.660 --> 18:01.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm here.
[18:01.500 --> 18:01.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah.
[18:02.400 --> 18:04.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't it great how we just sort of pulled him out of the sky?
[18:05.580 --> 18:05.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[18:06.220 --> 18:08.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie, have you heard us talking about Sprint Total Voice?
[18:09.080 --> 18:10.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I did.
[18:10.300 --> 18:10.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello, Phiber.
[18:11.020 --> 18:11.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[18:11.340 --> 18:11.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: How are you?
[18:11.760 --> 18:12.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm pretty good.
[18:13.600 --> 18:14.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, of course, hello, Manuel.
[18:15.080 --> 18:27.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was just reading in one of the telephony industry magazines just a couple days ago, coincidentally, about these voice dialing features that RBOCs have been offering.
[18:28.020 --> 18:34.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the RBOCs are generally very unhappy with how well this particular service has been doing.
[18:34.260 --> 18:35.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Less than...
[18:35.880 --> 18:36.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it was...
[18:37.560 --> 18:39.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think they're talking about NYNEX.
[18:39.320 --> 18:51.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: In this case, less than 1% of their subscribers opted for the service, which, compared to some of their other custom calling features, is pretty poor.
[18:52.000 --> 18:52.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[18:52.960 --> 18:53.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I would say so.
[18:54.880 --> 19:00.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, they're very unhappy with how unsuccessful they've been in marketing this voice dialing.
[19:00.880 --> 19:06.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: The only thing I think it's useful for is maybe for cellular or PCS.
[19:06.540 --> 19:10.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you're driving your car, it makes sense to be able to dial by voice.
[19:10.780 --> 19:16.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, frankly, all that stuff can be implemented at the customer premises and, too, with their hardware.
[19:16.760 --> 19:27.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, like a lot of these custom calling services, you can have your own stuff do that at your end instead of having to pay the phone company monthly fees ad infinitum.
[19:28.280 --> 19:29.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's certainly true.
[19:29.360 --> 19:29.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[19:30.400 --> 19:35.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you heard us talking about the area code split in 2-1-2, but that's something that we're facing next year.
[19:35.840 --> 19:36.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we were talking about...
[19:36.640 --> 19:41.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's know what you think of this idea, the possibility of instead having four-digit area codes where we could keep...
[19:41.500 --> 19:43.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, say, Philadelphia was going to split.
[19:43.260 --> 19:50.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you would go to 2-1-5-1, 2-1-5-2, et cetera, and that way you would keep your geographical number.
[19:50.840 --> 19:54.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: That would make a lot of sense, which is probably why they're not going to do it that way.
[19:54.300 --> 19:56.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think we agree with that.
[19:56.940 --> 19:57.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why is that?
[19:57.840 --> 19:59.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why don't they do things that make sense?
[19:59.580 --> 20:01.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, there's got to be a reason.
[20:02.940 --> 20:04.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: I haven't figured it out, though.
[20:04.740 --> 20:12.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a really good article in the New York Times yesterday by Patrick Lyons called The Trauma of the 90s, Adding New Area Codes.
[20:13.100 --> 20:20.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it really gave all the details that you could possibly want and explained things in a very nice way.
[20:21.840 --> 20:27.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: It explained how states with just one area code, those with smaller populations, had zeros in the middle, thus taking longer to dial.
[20:27.980 --> 20:38.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: The more populous states got ones in their codes, and the most populous regions of all had the speediest codes, 2-1-2 for New York, 2-1-3 for Los Angeles, 3-1-2 for Chicago.
[20:38.200 --> 20:40.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the human factor sometimes intruded.
[20:40.920 --> 20:51.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Among the zero-in-the-middle codes, New Jersey, Connecticut, and the District of Columbia, three places where plenty of phone company executives could be found, they got the easiest codes to dial, 2-0-1, 2-0-2, 2-0-3.
[20:52.580 --> 20:54.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alaska got 9-0-7.
[20:55.260 --> 20:57.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, of course, Hawaii got 8-0-8 eventually.
[20:58.320 --> 21:00.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, they designed the earlier shorter numbers earlier.
[21:00.920 --> 21:17.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, in fact, trivia, I think I've mentioned this trivia thing before on your program, that in the early days of the bell system, they assigned, of course, this was before the days of Touch-Tone when it was rotary dialing, or it was the number of pulses.
[21:17.880 --> 21:20.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was the number of, like, 9 pulses was a 9.
[21:20.940 --> 21:25.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, 9 pulses takes more time up in the telephone switch, the central office.
[21:25.120 --> 21:34.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they assigned the highest traffic areas a particularly short number of pulse digits.
[21:34.400 --> 21:40.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, for instance, Manhattan was 2-1-2, which is only 5 pulses total.
[21:42.040 --> 21:45.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: 2-1-5 for Philadelphia is just another example of that.
[21:45.740 --> 21:48.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: But then when electronic switching went on, of course, it didn't make much difference.
[21:48.600 --> 21:51.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, in any case, I just think that was clever.
[21:52.240 --> 21:56.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's an interesting story that we got yesterday about the...
[21:56.920 --> 21:59.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you remember this a few months ago.
[21:59.680 --> 22:01.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, maybe it was longer than that.
[22:01.740 --> 22:07.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some people running spy shops got in trouble for selling equipment that the federal government said they shouldn't have.
[22:07.700 --> 22:09.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I heard about that on NPR yesterday.
[22:09.440 --> 22:17.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, three executives of the nation's biggest chain of spy shops pleaded guilty Monday to charges that they illegally sold eavesdropping equipment that had been smuggled into the country.
[22:17.560 --> 22:23.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: The powerful bugs hidden in functioning ballpoint pens, calculators, and electrical outlets were smuggled through U.S.
[22:23.640 --> 22:30.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: customs so the spy factory could sell them to anyone rather than just law enforcement officers who were entitled to buy them, according to prosecutors.
[22:30.820 --> 22:38.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: The spy factory based in San Antonio sold transmitters that were much more powerful and had much greater transmission range than the FCC would allow.
[22:39.260 --> 22:42.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: The transmitters also operated on frequencies reserved for the U.S.
[22:42.180 --> 22:43.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: government and military.
[22:43.740 --> 22:52.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: The pleas entered by spy factory owner Ronald Kimball and general manager Marlon Richardson were part of plea agreements that interrupted their two-week trial and resulted in most of the charges being dropped.
[22:53.500 --> 22:57.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Kimball also agreed to turn over all the company's assets to the government and close the stores.
[22:57.980 --> 23:02.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I accept full responsibility for my conduct, Kimball told U.S.
[23:02.640 --> 23:07.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: District Judge Sonia Sotomayor in a sort of monotone that made people think he was probably possessed.
[23:07.880 --> 23:09.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Probably under duress.
[23:09.680 --> 23:11.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Interesting thing, an Associated Press story there.
[23:11.640 --> 23:11.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[23:12.120 --> 23:12.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: When you...
[23:12.500 --> 23:15.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting thing is when you plead guilty...
[23:15.020 --> 23:15.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[23:15.200 --> 23:16.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to tell...
[23:16.060 --> 23:18.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: You remember this whole thing, Phiber, I'm sure.
[23:18.380 --> 23:18.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yep.
[23:18.820 --> 23:23.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to say that you're pleading guilty because...
[23:23.360 --> 23:26.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're not under any duress or no one forced you to...
[23:26.840 --> 23:27.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: whatever.
[23:27.280 --> 23:31.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're not allowed to say that things...
[23:31.120 --> 23:32.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: truthful things like...
[23:32.680 --> 23:44.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, the specter of having to spend additional years in prison for actually telling the truth didn't influence my decision at all in pleading guilty.
[23:45.580 --> 23:46.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's ludicrous.
[23:46.820 --> 23:46.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[23:47.600 --> 23:48.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: But they...
[23:48.260 --> 23:50.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: On paper, you know, it looks like there's no duress, obviously.
[23:50.780 --> 23:50.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[23:50.980 --> 23:53.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's just a game they play and it's ludicrous.
[23:53.220 --> 23:59.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: So this guy, I'm sure, from what I'd heard, the assets of the spy factory were approximately $5 million.
[24:00.220 --> 24:02.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he had to turn that over to the Justice Department.
[24:03.560 --> 24:08.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And what's interesting is this stuff, this equipment, they say powerful transmitters.
[24:08.260 --> 24:11.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's no such thing as a powerful transmitter living in a ballpoint pen.
[24:11.920 --> 24:13.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: This defies the laws of physics.
[24:13.620 --> 24:17.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anything residing in a ballpoint pen would have to be running off a couple of little watch batteries.
[24:17.960 --> 24:18.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And just...
[24:19.140 --> 24:22.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's no way you can make anything powerful running off a couple of watch batteries.
[24:22.640 --> 24:28.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, well, you shouldn't say that because they could have a custom battery that makes up the majority of the pen itself.
[24:29.000 --> 24:34.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you're still not going to be able to get anything more than maybe a couple of hundred milliwatts, if that.
[24:34.680 --> 24:36.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe a hundred milliwatts of power.
[24:36.340 --> 24:39.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're not going to get a powerful bug living in a ballpoint pen.
[24:39.900 --> 24:41.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a pen probably isn't going to write either.
[24:41.540 --> 24:41.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[24:42.440 --> 24:44.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'd have to define what powerful meant.
[24:44.280 --> 24:44.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[24:45.500 --> 24:54.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the other thing that I would think would be powerful as far as it could send the signal very far used to be wireless bugs, I assume, because it would be...
[24:54.220 --> 25:00.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It would kind of give up the covertness if there was a wire coming out of the pen attached to something.
[25:00.640 --> 25:02.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Gee, that doesn't look like a normal ballpoint pen.
[25:02.180 --> 25:04.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's always a red flag to me when I see wires coming out of pens.
[25:04.800 --> 25:07.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: But this stuff has been sold on the market for years.
[25:07.480 --> 25:08.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: This has been available, this stuff.
[25:09.420 --> 25:15.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I've known people who've been in the business of surveillance and counter-surveillance equipment for years.
[25:16.160 --> 25:24.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And apparently the government just decided, okay, we've had enough of this and decided to crack down on a few select companies.
[25:24.480 --> 25:32.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, there are other companies who readily advertise in various electronics magazines the same type of equipment that you can buy anywhere.
[25:33.140 --> 25:34.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's peculiar.
[25:34.640 --> 25:48.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think these particular individuals must have pissed somebody off at the government or were selling counter-surveillance equipment that prevented certain targets from getting nailed or who knows what.
[25:48.500 --> 25:53.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: But there's more to the story than people bringing in new, powerful equipment that hasn't been available in the past.
[25:53.980 --> 25:56.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: This stuff has been available for years.
[25:56.980 --> 26:01.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the hobbyists can buy little kits and build them and save even more money.
[26:01.960 --> 26:02.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[26:02.720 --> 26:07.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: So another story that also broke over the last week that I think there's more too.
[26:07.640 --> 26:15.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: and that's the FBI saying they need quote-unquote worldwide cooperation among law enforcement agencies to catch bandits in cyberspace.
[26:16.360 --> 26:19.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: A new frontier where international borders do not exist.
[26:19.260 --> 26:21.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's according to FBI Director Lewis Free.
[26:22.220 --> 26:23.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's so ironic that name, isn't it?
[26:24.800 --> 26:32.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Computers are the new way that criminals and terrorists have found to achieve their objectives, Free told the International Computer Crime Conference in Manhattan.
[26:32.500 --> 26:33.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: How did we manage to miss that?
[26:34.540 --> 26:35.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: How did we manage to miss this?
[26:35.520 --> 26:36.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Computer Crime Conference.
[26:37.060 --> 26:38.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wasn't told.
[26:38.260 --> 26:39.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nobody told me.
[26:39.160 --> 26:39.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[26:39.980 --> 26:41.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's almost like they don't want us to know about it.
[26:42.380 --> 26:50.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Free cited three recent cases in which a computer was the weapon used to commit crimes against a bank, the flying public, and a 911 system.
[26:50.440 --> 26:51.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Computer is a weapon.
[26:51.500 --> 26:52.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: The flying public.
[26:52.620 --> 26:53.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, wait, wait.
[26:53.200 --> 26:56.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: We should comment on that little 911 thing he threw in there.
[26:56.300 --> 26:56.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, wait a minute.
[26:56.820 --> 26:57.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't read the story yet.
[26:57.720 --> 26:58.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[26:58.360 --> 26:58.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[26:59.100 --> 27:00.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I heard about that.
[27:00.100 --> 27:00.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[27:00.440 --> 27:02.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's read about it and then we'll comment on it.
[27:03.000 --> 27:04.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Traditionally, we'll do it that way.
[27:04.460 --> 27:13.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: In one case, someone with a laptop computer in St. Petersburg, Russia tried to gain access to millions of dollars in a U.S.
[27:13.340 --> 27:13.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: bank.
[27:13.780 --> 27:14.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see where this is going?
[27:15.100 --> 27:15.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[27:15.420 --> 27:17.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Russians trying to take our money.
[27:17.920 --> 27:18.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[27:18.380 --> 27:18.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hate that.
[27:18.860 --> 27:20.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: In another, a convicted...
[27:20.600 --> 27:21.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is what I'm really curious about.
[27:21.740 --> 27:25.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: A convicted terrorist used a laptop to create plots to blow up a dozen U.S.
[27:26.140 --> 27:26.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: airliners.
[27:26.720 --> 27:27.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: What does that mean?
[27:27.600 --> 27:28.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: They used a laptop...
[27:28.500 --> 27:28.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, what?
[27:28.940 --> 27:30.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: They typed into it and that made it the weapon?
[27:30.800 --> 27:34.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was indicted federally for possessing a laptop computer.
[27:35.680 --> 27:36.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's amazing.
[27:36.480 --> 27:42.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, having a laptop, having a device that you can write on is, like, considered a crime and that's a terrorist weapon.
[27:42.560 --> 27:44.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, and here's the one I think you want to comment on.
[27:44.600 --> 27:44.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[27:44.760 --> 27:56.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: A young man in Sweden hacked his way into computers in Florida to shut down a 911 emergency call system for an hour, crippling the networks responsible for speedy responses by police, fire, and ambulances.
[27:57.180 --> 28:09.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Free called the Florida incident a dress rehearsal for a national disaster and said the agency must prepare for the absolutely catastrophic as part of its mission to protect public safety and ensure national security.
[28:11.440 --> 28:12.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[28:12.500 --> 28:13.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you make of that?
[28:13.380 --> 28:14.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have an update on that story.
[28:14.580 --> 28:16.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Craig Nidor fall over again.
[28:16.780 --> 28:18.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: But even worse than that...
[28:18.500 --> 28:19.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, this wasn't a document.
[28:19.460 --> 28:20.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: This person actually did something.
[28:20.660 --> 28:20.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[28:21.220 --> 28:22.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and I'll tell you what he did.
[28:22.380 --> 28:22.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[28:22.700 --> 28:29.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: He was a kid from Sweden was conferencing 911 operators in Florida together.
[28:30.220 --> 28:30.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[28:30.680 --> 28:31.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's it.
[28:31.860 --> 28:33.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, according to this...
[28:33.960 --> 28:35.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: No computer was used.
[28:35.520 --> 28:35.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nothing.
[28:36.040 --> 28:47.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: According to the Associated Press, this is the update on that story, in January through March of last year, the man would call and harass dispatchers in one county or link county 911 operators through a conference calling system he had hacked into.
[28:48.460 --> 28:50.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: They then go on to get this kind of wrong.
[28:50.380 --> 28:58.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say when a person dials 911, the call actually is received on a telephone line with a seven-digit number and the man was able to get those actual telephone numbers to make his calls into 911 systems.
[28:58.800 --> 29:01.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: That may have been true there, but it's not true everywhere.
[29:01.200 --> 29:03.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that might have been true in the place in Florida he was calling.
[29:03.960 --> 29:08.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: In small places, I think that's true, but certainly in New York City, there isn't a seven-digit number from every 911 port that he gets.
[29:08.800 --> 29:09.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not at all.
[29:10.100 --> 29:15.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, in a few of them, it was just a one-time incident where he would hook up a 911 operator with another 911 operator.
[29:15.440 --> 29:17.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other jurisdictions, it was multiple times.
[29:18.340 --> 29:21.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: They refused to say how agents tracked the man down in Sweden.
[29:21.580 --> 29:28.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: The case came to light Tuesday when FBI Director Louis Free mentioned it in a speech at an international computer crime seminar in New York.
[29:28.320 --> 29:29.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess that was last Tuesday that that happened.
[29:30.500 --> 29:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the Florida case was one of several he mentioned to illustrate how computer hackers and phone freaks have been able to penetrate U.S.
[29:36.120 --> 29:37.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: businesses and institutions.
[29:37.740 --> 29:40.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, he was convicted of a misdemeanor in his homeland.
[29:41.880 --> 29:46.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Since Sweden has no laws on electronic intrusion, it's not that serious a thing over there.
[29:46.920 --> 29:47.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: But had he been a U.S.
[29:47.760 --> 29:50.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: citizen, he would have been facing federal felony charges.
[29:51.400 --> 29:51.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[29:52.040 --> 29:54.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's a stupid thing to do to tie up 911 or to harass them.
[29:55.100 --> 29:55.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it was a dumb thing.
[29:55.880 --> 29:59.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's not go crazy here with what the capabilities of such a person are.
[29:59.540 --> 30:02.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, but there was no computer involved and there was no hacking involved.
[30:02.440 --> 30:06.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: He could have called Alliance Teleconferencing with AT&T calling card he got off of EBS.
[30:06.920 --> 30:08.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, there's a computer right there, BBS.
[30:08.540 --> 30:09.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[30:09.700 --> 30:10.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: He could have done it without a computer.
[30:10.900 --> 30:12.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: He could have shoulder-surfed and got a calling card.
[30:12.920 --> 30:15.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's always going to be a computer involved someplace these days.
[30:15.720 --> 30:22.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here's a kid who was making prank calls from a regular phone and now he could be charged with a federal felony and locked up for years.
[30:22.800 --> 30:23.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, here, yeah.
[30:24.280 --> 30:25.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: If we're here.
[30:25.340 --> 30:25.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, over here.
[30:25.960 --> 30:32.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Over there, he's charged with a misdemeanor and the Swedish officials didn't even release his name to the federal authorities in the United States.
[30:33.160 --> 30:35.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess the Swedish government had a little more intelligence than ours.
[30:36.120 --> 30:36.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[30:36.980 --> 30:49.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speaking of hackers taking over corporate America, NASA Internet website was invaded by computer hackers who altered a picture of the space shuttle and threatened an electronic terrorist attack against corporate America, officials said Thursday.
[30:50.300 --> 30:57.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's amazing how they're able to take some joking remarks and turn it into a terrorist threat.
[30:57.540 --> 30:57.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[30:58.500 --> 31:04.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Brian Dunbar, NASA's Internet services manager, said the hackers broke into the website just before noon a couple of Wednesdays ago.
[31:04.500 --> 31:05.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, it was last Wednesday.
[31:05.780 --> 31:09.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: And substituted an altered page for one routinely posted by NASA.
[31:10.000 --> 31:13.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: The message from the hackers was a diatribe against commercial use of the Internet.
[31:14.260 --> 31:19.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the message was a vague threat to carry out an electronic terrorist attack against corporate America within a month.
[31:19.400 --> 31:22.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: It also called for the release from jail of some well-known hackers.
[31:22.640 --> 31:24.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, Bernie, I think you were on that page, too.
[31:24.520 --> 31:24.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-oh.
[31:25.060 --> 31:25.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he and Kevin were on that.
[31:25.500 --> 31:27.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I get about any knowledge of these people.
[31:27.640 --> 31:27.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[31:28.320 --> 31:32.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't know who they were either, but the site is mirrored on our web page.
[31:32.480 --> 31:34.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if you want to take a look at it and judge it for yourself...
[31:34.080 --> 31:35.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the NASA web page?
[31:35.200 --> 31:35.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[31:35.680 --> 31:36.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it was the NASA.
[31:37.000 --> 31:38.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now it's on the 2600 web page.
[31:38.380 --> 31:39.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, I'll have to check that out.
[31:39.540 --> 31:47.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, so if you go to www.2600.com hacked site, you'll see exactly what they said and you'll also see what the page is supposed to look like.
[31:47.960 --> 31:57.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was another hack over the weekend and I'd like to, first of all, read you a letter from somebody that we got over at the website concerning that hack.
[31:57.480 --> 31:58.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: You may have heard of this.
[31:58.560 --> 32:00.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: The NCAA also got hacked.
[32:00.480 --> 32:00.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[32:01.760 --> 32:04.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: He wants to thank us for maintaining the hacked site pages on our website.
[32:05.640 --> 32:09.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I find it difficult to put into words exactly why I think what you are doing is a valuable public service.
[32:09.960 --> 32:15.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I do, however, feel that people who have zero hacker in them are at least partially brain-dead sheep.
[32:15.660 --> 32:20.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just recently added the NASA site's link to my page when I today heard about the NCAA site.
[32:20.980 --> 32:26.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I did not like what I heard about that hack and was pleased to see that you had not added it to your site and hope and pray that this condition persists.
[32:26.920 --> 32:28.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I am completely disinterested in ever seeing it.
[32:29.340 --> 32:33.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those who hack motivated by hate are worse than brain-dead sheep in my opinion.
[32:33.760 --> 32:47.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, yeah, we've put up a lot of sites on 2600 that have been hacked including the East Timor site which opens people's eyes as far as the situation in that part of the world and the Air Force and the CIA and more recently NASA.
[32:47.340 --> 32:52.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: This NCAA thing, I took a look at it, it's a bunch of garbage really.
[32:52.420 --> 33:04.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's basically white power propaganda and whether or not it's put up there as a joke or as something serious there is no message being conveyed here other than yeah, we can do it and we're stupid.
[33:05.760 --> 33:14.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speech is a very valuable thing to use and taking over someone's website I think is the ultimate form of control.
[33:14.720 --> 33:20.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: When someone takes over your website they kind of like are controlling exactly what it is you say and what you represent.
[33:20.820 --> 33:37.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, that's what happened to NASA, that's what happened to the Air Force, that's what happened in Sweden with the CIA people and in this particular case it happened to the NCAA and, you know, the people who took over this website were stupid morons idiots I mean,
[33:37.640 --> 33:49.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't want to be too nasty but what they were saying was just you know, insulting and what's the point of enshrining that in history and saying wow, look what hackers did.
[33:49.340 --> 34:01.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm upset because you know, they mentioned 2600 in one part they said what they say greetings to people who go to the 2600 meetings or something like that well, you know, that's not what we're all about.
[34:02.040 --> 34:30.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're not about just messing things up and putting out messages that don't have any real value in them nothing to say you know, we have whether or not you agree with the political agenda of somebody if someone says something that is obviously an opinion that has some merit you have to respect that this is this is just pure hatred and it's not something that I think anybody can really defend if
[34:30.120 --> 34:48.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: they if they would have if they would have insulted college basketball right at face value yeah, I mean that, okay that would have been something they did this on like the busiest night of the NCAA or whatever and they said you know if they had said something like college basketball is just part of the whole capitalistic monopolistic stupidity things like that or just said it was crap yeah,
[34:48.880 --> 35:11.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: whatever they should back it up with something but tell us something tell us your opinion and okay you're good enough to hack the website let's at least say something that makes a little bit of sense and has some opinion behind it rather than just putting forth a bunch of four letter words and racist crap the way I see it it's kind of like this if you're going to take the trouble to climb up those
[35:11.540 --> 35:15.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: really, really tall ladders to get up to the billboard with your spray cans.
[35:15.320 --> 35:15.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[35:15.740 --> 35:18.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: You should say something interesting when you're up there.
[35:18.500 --> 35:18.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's good.
[35:19.020 --> 35:19.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I like that.
[35:19.500 --> 35:20.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not just something stupid.
[35:20.840 --> 35:20.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[35:21.520 --> 35:22.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or what were you going to do?
[35:22.200 --> 35:23.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: You climbed Mount Everest, right?
[35:23.940 --> 35:26.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you going to plant a flag there or leave a Coke can?
[35:27.240 --> 35:28.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think of that?
[35:28.240 --> 35:30.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Something that makes it clear as to why you did it.
[35:30.880 --> 35:32.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Other than just to explain that you're an idiot.
[35:33.260 --> 35:33.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[35:34.920 --> 35:35.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[35:35.580 --> 35:37.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's the reason why that's not on our website.
[35:37.580 --> 35:41.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And let's hope we see some more interesting ones.
[35:42.060 --> 35:46.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I mean, no harm is done when people do this in the right way.
[35:46.600 --> 35:48.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, no one's being locked out of a site.
[35:48.520 --> 35:51.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: If they were being locked out of their own site, that would be malicious.
[35:51.420 --> 35:52.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: That would be evil.
[35:52.340 --> 35:53.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that would be something that would have to be fought.
[35:54.780 --> 35:56.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's not what's happening in any of these cases.
[35:56.920 --> 35:57.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: These hackers are going in.
[35:58.040 --> 35:58.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're taking over sites.
[35:59.040 --> 36:00.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're putting up their messages.
[36:00.440 --> 36:04.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And people are getting back in and fixing it and restoring what they had before.
[36:04.580 --> 36:07.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's just a little bit of an embarrassment, a little bit of trouble.
[36:07.580 --> 36:10.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, hey, you know, that's part of the whole net experience.
[36:11.020 --> 36:11.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[36:11.780 --> 36:12.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's go to the phones.
[36:12.960 --> 36:14.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[36:15.040 --> 36:24.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anybody has any suggestions on the whole area code crisis, which is facing all of us in 212.
[36:24.780 --> 36:27.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those of you in New Jersey, Connecticut, you're welcome to call in as well.
[36:27.640 --> 36:35.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, when I drove out to Chicago, I was listening to WBAI, all the way across New Jersey, into Pennsylvania.
[36:36.060 --> 36:38.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: 15 miles into Pennsylvania, I was getting WBAI.
[36:38.620 --> 36:40.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was listening to Michio Kaku talk about cloning.
[36:41.020 --> 36:45.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I had to pull over into a gas station because this other moronic station was interfering.
[36:45.400 --> 36:49.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you have no idea how moronic radio stations are when you're trying to listen to a good radio station.
[36:49.760 --> 36:54.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And some idiot is, you know, blasting forth their commercials and garbage music.
[36:54.920 --> 36:57.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you're trying to just listen to this voice of sanity someplace.
[36:58.000 --> 37:03.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I pulled over into a parking lot and was, you know, listening for about 15 minutes until, you know, the show ended and then continued on my way.
[37:03.800 --> 37:06.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I'll tell you, you know, radio is a vacuum out there.
[37:06.800 --> 37:07.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really is.
[37:07.720 --> 37:14.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've got to prize what you have and fight to maintain it because it's not the kind of thing you'll find everywhere.
[37:14.540 --> 37:15.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I found a couple of good radio stations.
[37:15.800 --> 37:17.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I found a couple of good college stations.
[37:18.480 --> 37:21.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Even a couple of good commercial stations that are better than commercial stations here.
[37:22.180 --> 37:25.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, they sort of play alternative music, but then they play something different.
[37:25.240 --> 37:30.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they play things that are, you know, from the 80s maybe or from, you know, they mix things up.
[37:30.220 --> 37:30.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're creative.
[37:31.500 --> 37:35.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you don't see that very often in New York, you know, on commercial radio, that is.
[37:35.400 --> 37:38.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see a lot of non-commercial radio as well, but not commercial.
[37:39.780 --> 37:44.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, Bernie, I guess I should mention this with you on the line, that people might not know this.
[37:44.160 --> 37:45.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: And maybe people out there can explain this to me.
[37:45.860 --> 37:49.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: We had a station here, WDRE, that was playing alternative music.
[37:49.840 --> 37:52.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And for some reason in Philadelphia, they also had a station called WDRE.
[37:52.980 --> 37:54.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: It wasn't just simulcasting.
[37:54.180 --> 37:56.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was doing other things as well.
[37:56.720 --> 38:02.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, when we lost our DRE to whatever brain-dead people are running it now, you still had yours.
[38:02.260 --> 38:04.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: But then, last month, you lost yours too.
[38:04.920 --> 38:05.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: What happened?
[38:05.700 --> 38:12.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they were both sold, from what I read in local papers down here, I think I mailed you a copy of this article too.
[38:13.060 --> 38:13.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Did you get that?
[38:13.980 --> 38:14.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, I did.
[38:14.760 --> 38:14.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[38:15.260 --> 38:16.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Very sad article.
[38:16.720 --> 38:17.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was.
[38:17.420 --> 38:22.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: A lot of people were very unhappy that this new music station went out.
[38:22.700 --> 38:31.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: But in any case, I think they're obviously both owned by the same company that sold it to another company that specialized in black entertainment.
[38:32.360 --> 38:39.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there was a lot of fear that it would be transformed into a rap station, which hasn't happened yet, but it could happen.
[38:39.380 --> 38:39.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I don't know.
[38:39.880 --> 38:53.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess the company that bought out WDRE, both stations, along with some other stations, part of the whole conglomerate, decided to phase in the new formats in phases, not all at once.
[38:54.340 --> 38:56.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, sad thing.
[38:56.120 --> 38:57.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: People get very attached to their radio stations.
[38:57.540 --> 38:59.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what happens to a lot of commercial stations.
[38:59.760 --> 39:00.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: They just...
[39:00.360 --> 39:03.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to understand, it's not really the people who control them.
[39:03.300 --> 39:06.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the corporate interests that sell those commercials.
[39:06.620 --> 39:07.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's really what it's all about.
[39:07.720 --> 39:15.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you're kidding yourself if you think that, you know, your commercial radio station is something that's going to be loyal to you because it never works that way.
[39:15.280 --> 39:20.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: The stations play music solely for you to listen to the commercials between the songs.
[39:20.460 --> 39:22.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the only reason commercial radio stations exist.
[39:23.600 --> 39:29.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is going to be greatly exacerbated with the Telecommunications Act of 1995.
[39:30.460 --> 39:31.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1995 or 1996?
[39:31.940 --> 39:33.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1996, I guess it was.
[39:33.080 --> 39:36.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was looking at something the other day in the paper, and it scared me.
[39:36.260 --> 39:43.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: All the popular radio stations out on Long Island, like, you know, the really popular ones, like the top four or five, they're all owned by the same people now.
[39:43.400 --> 39:43.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's amazing.
[39:44.220 --> 39:45.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: It used to be illegal.
[39:45.380 --> 39:56.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: But now it used to be the FCC limited the number of radio stations in a country that one corporation could own and specifically limited the number of stations in any particular market.
[39:56.260 --> 40:02.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: So there would be some diversity of programming and news and so forth.
[40:02.380 --> 40:04.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: But now there's virtually no limit.
[40:05.100 --> 40:09.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: One company can own all the radio stations in one city if you interpret the law that way.
[40:09.640 --> 40:11.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's really out of hand.
[40:11.160 --> 40:12.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Plus, they can also own the new...
[40:12.300 --> 40:15.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: One company can now own a newspaper, TV station, and radio stations.
[40:16.000 --> 40:17.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't forget the cable TV system.
[40:17.560 --> 40:19.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a cable TV company in the same city.
[40:20.120 --> 40:21.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: One guy can own them all.
[40:22.160 --> 40:23.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like Citizen Kane, you know?
[40:23.880 --> 40:24.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's exactly like that.
[40:25.020 --> 40:27.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is something that we've been clamoring about now for a few years.
[40:27.820 --> 40:29.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: And just, it's getting bigger.
[40:29.400 --> 40:31.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, I mean, it's not close to reality.
[40:31.400 --> 40:32.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is reality now.
[40:32.380 --> 40:35.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And what's worse is that the reason this didn't get reported much...
[40:35.700 --> 40:37.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, there was a good thing on...
[40:38.440 --> 40:44.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not to plug NPR too much, but there was a talk program on NPR today about the Telecommunications Act in 1996.
[40:45.320 --> 40:47.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's passed, I think, early...
[40:47.080 --> 40:49.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think February of last year.
[40:50.380 --> 40:57.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: There wasn't very much press or media coverage of the implications of this bill that passed.
[40:57.020 --> 40:58.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of the hearings were held in secret.
[40:59.720 --> 41:03.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: And because there's so much money at stake, literally billions and billions of dollars.
[41:04.280 --> 41:05.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's not just money.
[41:05.360 --> 41:07.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's also just the expression of thoughts and ideas.
[41:07.880 --> 41:14.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that wasn't of any interest to the people who had the billions of dollars to gain from the passage of this bill.
[41:15.140 --> 41:23.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: But apparently the House Republicans, the new ones that got in, basically asked the industry, what do you want?
[41:23.880 --> 41:26.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they were told, we want this, this, and this.
[41:26.080 --> 41:27.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the bill was crafted.
[41:27.220 --> 41:31.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it passed with hardly any deliberations or any media coverage.
[41:31.900 --> 41:46.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the reason that the speculation is the reason there wasn't much media coverage of this is because the people who owned the stations at the time had a lot to gain by this thing being passed without any public discussion about whether this is good or not.
[41:47.100 --> 41:48.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: And here we got it passed.
[41:48.680 --> 41:49.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it can only get worse.
[41:50.260 --> 41:50.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[41:51.040 --> 42:00.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think people need to do more things, the equivalent of taking over webpages with radio stations as far as maybe taking over their signals if necessary.
[42:01.060 --> 42:01.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[42:01.500 --> 42:02.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's got to be an answer to this someplace.
[42:02.920 --> 42:07.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't have the same voice dictating to everybody in a particular town.
[42:07.600 --> 42:08.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: There has to be choice.
[42:08.820 --> 42:09.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: There has to be access.
[42:10.440 --> 42:12.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're just moving away from that.
[42:12.420 --> 42:14.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a very scary situation.
[42:14.380 --> 42:15.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: We need to take back some things.
[42:16.060 --> 42:18.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, let's give the listeners a chance to call in.
[42:18.560 --> 42:20.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[42:20.720 --> 42:21.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[42:21.460 --> 42:22.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're our first caller.
[42:22.500 --> 42:23.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[42:23.660 --> 42:24.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's Rebel.
[42:24.680 --> 42:26.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: We haven't heard your voice in a long time.
[42:27.020 --> 42:27.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's right.
[42:27.780 --> 42:29.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't heard from you in a long time.
[42:29.920 --> 42:30.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway.
[42:30.520 --> 42:33.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've been wondering what your take on the whole area code split is.
[42:33.900 --> 42:34.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't like it, actually.
[42:35.180 --> 42:36.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: He doesn't like it.
[42:36.320 --> 42:36.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[42:36.860 --> 42:37.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rebel does not like it.
[42:37.420 --> 42:38.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's the official word.
[42:38.500 --> 42:39.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you very much for calling Rebel.
[42:39.900 --> 42:41.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now I just wanted to...
[42:41.160 --> 42:41.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have more to say?
[42:42.100 --> 42:42.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yes, of course.
[42:43.040 --> 42:43.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[42:43.380 --> 42:54.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like to also say that I think the person who hacked into the NCAA and who did those racist remarks on the webpages should get the same amount of treatment that Bernie Scott got.
[42:54.360 --> 42:55.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think they should...
[42:55.240 --> 42:56.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
[42:56.780 --> 43:03.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, people who are racist and who are like that, I think you should be arrested for racism.
[43:03.880 --> 43:05.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if you're a racist, you should be put in jail.
[43:06.040 --> 43:06.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: It should be against the law.
[43:07.220 --> 43:09.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it is a way of thinking.
[43:09.180 --> 43:19.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think you should be in prison for doing things like hurting people Or, you know, discriminating against people for racist reasons.
[43:19.500 --> 43:23.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: But just thinking racist, I think it's dangerous to say you imprison somebody because of the way they think.
[43:23.740 --> 43:24.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is freedom of speech.
[43:24.980 --> 43:27.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Unfortunately, that's the dark side of the First Amendment.
[43:27.360 --> 43:30.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: But unless you have, you know, you can't have partial freedom of speech.
[43:30.620 --> 43:32.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no light side without the dark side.
[43:32.220 --> 43:36.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: There should be a little thing, freedom of speech, so long as it does not hurt others.
[43:36.280 --> 43:38.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: As long as it doesn't offend someone else.
[43:38.140 --> 43:39.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: So then, you know, you can't do that.
[43:39.780 --> 43:40.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't work.
[43:40.200 --> 43:40.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's impractical.
[43:40.880 --> 43:43.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: But anyway, that's just my opinion.
[43:43.300 --> 43:44.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: And anyway, if you want...
[43:44.140 --> 43:45.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm glad you're not king, Rebel.
[43:45.480 --> 43:45.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[43:46.080 --> 43:46.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Rebel.
[43:46.760 --> 43:47.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I like the sound of that.
[43:48.480 --> 43:52.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you want to, again, make free phone calls, go to...
[43:52.700 --> 43:57.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, do you have a thing down in Philadelphia where, like, you have...
[43:57.200 --> 43:59.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't have anything that lets me make free phone calls.
[43:59.220 --> 43:59.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, no.
[43:59.660 --> 44:00.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, listen to this.
[44:00.660 --> 44:01.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Never did.
[44:01.360 --> 44:01.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Never will.
[44:01.860 --> 44:02.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, listen to this.
[44:03.360 --> 44:03.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a...
[44:03.940 --> 44:07.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: In NYNEX payment centers, like where you get to pay your bill, they have...
[44:07.880 --> 44:10.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: You make free phone calls from the NYNEX office?
[44:10.740 --> 44:13.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: The NYNEX payment center on 13th Street and 2nd Avenue in Manhattan.
[44:13.920 --> 44:15.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've got a chutzpah, I've got to tell you.
[44:15.580 --> 44:18.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: But look, go to the 13th Street and 2nd Avenue NYNEX payment center.
[44:18.900 --> 44:19.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a courtesy phone.
[44:19.840 --> 44:21.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there'll be nice, courteous people waiting for you there, too.
[44:22.060 --> 44:22.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[44:22.320 --> 44:23.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't suggest doing that.
[44:23.660 --> 44:24.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, wait a minute.
[44:24.140 --> 44:25.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've been doing this for years.
[44:25.360 --> 44:27.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you could just pick it up, dial 9...
[44:27.740 --> 44:31.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're supposed to dial the business office by dialing like 2-1 or 2-2.
[44:31.020 --> 44:33.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: This guy's confessing to this over the air.
[44:33.660 --> 44:35.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I mean, come on.
[44:35.320 --> 44:38.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: The courteous people who'll be waiting for you next time will be wearing badges.
[44:38.700 --> 44:43.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Next time has been a long time I've been doing this and nobody seems to...
[44:43.420 --> 44:45.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, they just think you're making, you know, call...
[44:45.120 --> 44:45.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Until now.
[44:45.920 --> 44:54.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: They think that you're calling what just wants to be calling when I'm really just dialing 9, getting an outside line, and dialing 1-0-2-8-8 for AT&T and having them put long-distance calls through.
[44:54.840 --> 44:56.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you've ruined it for everybody.
[44:56.080 --> 45:01.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: It'll be a very simple thing for them to put some sort of a monitor on that line and detect when you're doing that next.
[45:01.920 --> 45:02.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right?
[45:02.380 --> 45:03.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'd be very careful.
[45:03.340 --> 45:03.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I would not go back here.
[45:03.960 --> 45:04.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, no.
[45:04.220 --> 45:05.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, but...
[45:05.500 --> 45:05.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: But wait a minute.
[45:05.780 --> 45:10.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm sure NYNEX will get word of this and will fix this stupide...
[45:10.240 --> 45:11.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, because it hasn't done it yet.
[45:11.360 --> 45:12.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's been going on for years.
[45:12.980 --> 45:15.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, how many times have you announced it over the radio?
[45:15.140 --> 45:17.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, a couple, because nobody...
[45:17.300 --> 45:18.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I tell somebody about it...
[45:18.720 --> 45:20.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've given the address, all right?
[45:20.080 --> 45:22.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've given the exact way of making the phone call.
[45:22.100 --> 45:23.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think there's much left for them to do.
[45:23.680 --> 45:25.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, when I...
[45:27.380 --> 45:33.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: In Queens, in Jamaica, and, you know, all over the city, there's these phones that you could just make free phone calls on.
[45:33.700 --> 45:35.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, well, why don't you just distribute a list and...
[45:35.600 --> 45:38.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, look at the list on my website at www.
[45:38.060 --> 45:38.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, great.
[45:38.620 --> 45:39.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, there you go.
[45:39.420 --> 45:40.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's that website again?
[45:40.720 --> 45:44.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: That website is www.escape.com.
[45:44.980 --> 45:50.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's E-S-C-A-P-E dot com slash Tildy Rebel, R-E-B-E-L.
[45:50.400 --> 45:52.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't suppose your site has been hacked or...
[45:52.880 --> 45:55.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, in fact, very funny you should mention it.
[45:55.560 --> 46:00.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: One time, a long time ago, it has been changed, like, by somebody that sort of...
[46:00.060 --> 46:05.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess I should say my website has been hacked once, and somebody changed some, you know, phrases.
[46:06.340 --> 46:08.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it was, you know, fixed and...
[46:08.460 --> 46:10.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And did something to make you look foolish, perhaps?
[46:10.460 --> 46:11.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Something like that.
[46:12.700 --> 46:15.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Boy, I don't think that's terrible when someone does that.
[46:15.260 --> 46:17.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it was a learning experience for all, wasn't it?
[46:17.180 --> 46:21.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it was, because, you know, it was my, you know, I know why...
[46:21.500 --> 46:22.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: See, that's the thing.
[46:22.380 --> 46:23.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: I learned from it.
[46:23.260 --> 46:27.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know why it happened, and I fixed it, and I fixed it so that it doesn't happen.
[46:27.500 --> 46:28.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you fixed them good, I hope.
[46:28.720 --> 46:32.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, with NYNEX, you hack them, or you make free phone calls with them.
[46:32.240 --> 46:33.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: They don't understand.
[46:34.180 --> 46:34.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, they don't.
[46:34.340 --> 46:35.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: You try and get the message to them.
[46:36.020 --> 46:36.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's...
[46:36.880 --> 46:45.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, why don't we just clarify, for any NYNEX employees listening, that's the, uh, that's the, uh, maintenance operations center at 204 2nd Avenue at 13th Street.
[46:45.180 --> 46:45.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[46:45.360 --> 46:46.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are there any other phones, or...
[46:46.620 --> 46:48.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, there's one in Jamaica, please.
[46:48.180 --> 46:49.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, no, no, no, I mean, in that building.
[46:49.300 --> 46:50.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to make sure they get the right phone.
[46:50.500 --> 46:52.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: They might disable the wrong one, you know?
[46:52.620 --> 46:53.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, well, no, that...
[46:53.660 --> 46:54.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: You walk in the door.
[46:54.640 --> 46:55.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where's the phone?
[46:55.060 --> 46:55.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: I walk in your door.
[46:55.760 --> 46:56.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[46:56.200 --> 46:58.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's at the back.
[46:58.420 --> 46:58.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[46:58.900 --> 47:00.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you, it's on the left.
[47:00.760 --> 47:01.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: What color is the phone?
[47:02.360 --> 47:03.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a wall phone.
[47:03.520 --> 47:04.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like beige.
[47:04.240 --> 47:05.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a courtesy phone.
[47:05.180 --> 47:06.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not a white courtesy telephone?
[47:07.060 --> 47:08.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a beige courtesy telephone.
[47:08.360 --> 47:08.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Beige courtesy telephone.
[47:08.920 --> 47:09.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it a rotary dial on it?
[47:09.740 --> 47:11.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's a press-button phone, of course.
[47:11.420 --> 47:11.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, okay.
[47:11.780 --> 47:12.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, well, we got that straightened out.
[47:13.060 --> 47:16.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Rebel, I think you should go put a sign on the phone so they don't mistake it for another one, you know?
[47:16.580 --> 47:21.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, we'll just, we'll go over there, we'll put a sign saying, free calls here, and see if that gets them to see something about...
[47:21.860 --> 47:23.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rebel, thank you very much for that hot tip.
[47:24.840 --> 47:25.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, boy.
[47:26.300 --> 47:28.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: You think he's gonna be walking around in the next couple of weeks?
[47:29.140 --> 47:31.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna get him.
[47:31.420 --> 47:31.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[47:31.740 --> 47:32.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're gonna get him.
[47:32.300 --> 47:33.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: I hope they don't lock him up.
[47:33.080 --> 47:33.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, boy.
[47:34.300 --> 47:37.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I have an audio demonstration for the listeners.
[47:37.420 --> 47:39.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you're going to have to wait until the next caller gets off, because we have a new caller.
[47:40.060 --> 47:40.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, caller.
[47:40.820 --> 47:44.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm usually first, but my timing is off tonight.
[47:44.400 --> 47:45.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Rebel had you beat by a hair.
[47:45.680 --> 47:47.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I have to apologize.
[47:47.180 --> 47:53.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't listen to the show last week due to my bipolar disorder, but it's now in the upswing.
[47:53.380 --> 47:54.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, that's good to know.
[47:54.400 --> 48:01.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Bernie, it's so great to hear you, and, you know, with no lock-up calls or police sirens or, you know, horror tales.
[48:01.300 --> 48:02.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not even used to your voice.
[48:02.720 --> 48:05.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm used to hearing it, you know, gargled and long-distance.
[48:06.200 --> 48:07.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you remember my voice.
[48:07.960 --> 48:10.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: We had a lot of phone calls on this show while you were in jail.
[48:10.420 --> 48:11.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember you distinctly.
[48:11.980 --> 48:18.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm so glad you're better and free and Phiber.
[48:18.360 --> 48:19.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you're not tardy.
[48:19.480 --> 48:21.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: You, like, missed two or three shows.
[48:21.500 --> 48:23.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, this is what I'm calling about.
[48:23.500 --> 48:24.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm calling about.
[48:25.480 --> 48:29.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: First, a question or a comment about voice-activated dialing.
[48:29.920 --> 48:40.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to first pick up the phone and dial an 800 number to get into the system and then do your thing?
[48:40.900 --> 48:47.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just do it where you just pick the receiver off the hook and say, like, call Bill's Pizzeria, right?
[48:47.540 --> 48:48.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, that's exactly what you do.
[48:48.800 --> 48:51.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: You pick up the phone and you speak.
[48:51.140 --> 48:54.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can even have cuss words in there to represent certain people if you want.
[48:54.740 --> 48:57.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Is this for NYNEX or the Sprint one or what?
[48:57.720 --> 48:58.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's for both, I would imagine.
[48:59.100 --> 49:00.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I haven't seen the Sprint one.
[49:00.500 --> 49:01.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I used the NYNEX one.
[49:01.280 --> 49:04.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I had the Sprint one originally years ago.
[49:04.220 --> 49:05.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that's something else.
[49:05.120 --> 49:10.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I saw their ad in Scientific American and you have to call the 800 number and you have to...
[49:10.940 --> 49:13.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the one where you speak your social security number, right?
[49:13.320 --> 49:13.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[49:13.620 --> 49:14.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the stupidest thing I ever heard.
[49:14.880 --> 49:23.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, the NYNEX one, if I were to get that, and I don't know whether or not it's economical, I would just, like, pick up the phone and say, call Emmanuel Goldstein and it would do it.
[49:23.840 --> 49:27.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: You just pick up the phone and bark out a command and it will dial whatever sounds closest to that.
[49:28.000 --> 49:29.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, of course you have to pre-record them.
[49:29.940 --> 49:30.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you have to tell it.
[49:30.900 --> 49:32.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not going to know intuitively who you're supposed to call.
[49:32.860 --> 49:36.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hey, you know, but that's with an 800 number or something, right?
[49:36.260 --> 49:38.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, Phiber, does your speech break the dial tone in?
[49:38.940 --> 49:39.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[49:39.140 --> 49:41.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, actually, does it a tone come on?
[49:41.220 --> 49:44.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: You get a dial tone for about a half second, then you get a little chirp, and that's when you're supposed to speak.
[49:44.880 --> 49:45.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[49:45.200 --> 49:46.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can dial throughout.
[49:46.860 --> 49:48.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't matter if you don't speak.
[49:48.220 --> 49:51.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: The phone I'm calling from now has actually a volume switch.
[49:52.320 --> 49:53.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Would that affect it?
[49:53.420 --> 49:54.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Would you like a demonstration of it?
[49:54.880 --> 49:58.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it will raise my voice or just the voice of me hearing you.
[49:58.320 --> 50:00.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think the volume switch will only raise our voice, but try it.
[50:00.560 --> 50:01.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: But then we've got to move on.
[50:01.900 --> 50:03.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I just did it to high.
[50:03.860 --> 50:04.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Do I sound the same?
[50:04.700 --> 50:05.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: You sound pretty much the same to me.
[50:05.860 --> 50:06.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, this one...
[50:06.140 --> 50:07.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: But we probably sound louder.
[50:07.440 --> 50:08.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, you do.
[50:08.200 --> 50:14.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: But the last thing before you go, since, like, your talk on radio and freedom of speech, I think this is sort of important.
[50:14.500 --> 50:14.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[50:15.140 --> 50:27.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of electronics and computers and everything, one of the worst stores I've ever been to in terms of, you know, all their branches, not just in my neighborhood, in terms of poor service and competent sales help.
[50:27.700 --> 50:28.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here we go.
[50:28.220 --> 50:29.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Baiting the switch scams.
[50:29.580 --> 50:29.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[50:30.280 --> 50:31.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody beats the whiz.
[50:31.640 --> 50:37.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think they make Crazy Eddie, who was a greedy SOB, look like, you know, Harvey by comparison.
[50:37.520 --> 50:44.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just have to say, nobody beats the whiz, whiz sucks, and it's great to hear Bernie and, uh...
[50:44.960 --> 50:45.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[50:45.520 --> 50:46.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right.
[50:46.180 --> 50:48.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for calling for lending your opinion on that matter.
[50:48.880 --> 50:50.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not the whiz, it's nobody beats the whiz.
[50:50.780 --> 50:51.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's nobody beats the whiz.
[50:51.660 --> 50:53.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're listed in the phone book as nobody beats the whiz.
[50:53.860 --> 50:54.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: We should add.
[50:54.220 --> 50:56.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: We do not necessarily share those opinions.
[50:57.000 --> 50:58.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, the whiz does now carry Omnipoint.
[50:59.140 --> 51:00.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they're now like...
[51:00.500 --> 51:01.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they can't be that bad.
[51:01.320 --> 51:02.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I don't know.
[51:02.240 --> 51:03.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It depends how bad you think Omnipoint is.
[51:03.940 --> 51:07.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: But yes, they are service people for that, or sales people for that as well.
[51:08.300 --> 51:09.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, Bernie, you had a demonstration for us.
[51:09.920 --> 51:11.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, David B.
[51:11.280 --> 51:25.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: came down to visit me in Philadelphia this past weekend, and we walked around, and we went over to South Street, and there's a pawn shop there, and usually there's just musical instruments in there, but I was looking to actually buy a replacement for my guitar that was stolen,
[51:25.420 --> 51:30.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: but instead I found a TDD there in the display case.
[51:31.400 --> 51:36.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a TDD is a telecommunications device for the deaf, if people aren't familiar with the term.
[51:36.780 --> 51:38.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Didn't you have a TDD stolen at Hope?
[51:38.400 --> 51:39.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I did, indeed.
[51:39.360 --> 51:41.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And coincidentally, this TDD is identical.
[51:42.060 --> 51:48.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not the same one, but it's the same model of the TDD that was stolen from me at Hope, so it was wonderful to find this there.
[51:48.080 --> 51:50.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: They won a $50 for it, and I got them down to like $20.
[51:50.940 --> 51:55.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think they thought it was one of these little things that you can store names and phone numbers in, because it's very small.
[51:55.880 --> 51:58.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's about the size of a VHS cassette.
[51:58.720 --> 51:59.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can fold it up.
[51:59.680 --> 52:02.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it works great.
[52:03.120 --> 52:09.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: So for our listeners, I thought I'd play TDD tones, unlike a modem.
[52:09.720 --> 52:10.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[52:10.160 --> 52:11.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it works similar to a modem.
[52:11.680 --> 52:19.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: It converts text to tones that can be sent over a phone line and then decoded at the other end.
[52:19.600 --> 52:26.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: But TDD users, most of whom are hearing impaired or communicating with people who are hearing impaired, use these things.
[52:26.560 --> 52:27.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes they're portable.
[52:27.340 --> 52:30.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes they're bolted onto the bottom of a payphone.
[52:30.300 --> 52:39.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you see a payphone that has a funny-looking steel box bolted at the bottom of it with a red light on it that fluctuates as somebody's talking on a phone, the red light, it's a TDD phone.
[52:39.560 --> 52:45.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And in fact, you can't open that thing unless you call a phone number where there's a TDD at the other end.
[52:45.600 --> 52:56.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: And when your TDD at that payphone hears the TDD tones at the remote end, it will activate a relay and turn on a motor, and the tray with the keyboard and display will magically slide out.
[52:56.700 --> 53:12.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: If anybody finds one of these phones, and they're supposed to be in every public location, like where there's a lot of phones, like a shopping mall or a train station or something, if you call AT&T Directory Assistance for TDD users, that number is 800-855-1155.
[53:13.680 --> 53:23.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: As soon as the TDD hears their carrier tone at their end, the tray will slide out, and you'll get a message from the AT&T operator saying, this is operator number of like 129.
[53:23.560 --> 53:24.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I have a question then.
[53:25.720 --> 53:27.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's Directory Assistance for the entire country?
[53:28.200 --> 53:28.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is.
[53:28.740 --> 53:29.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's an 800 number.
[53:29.700 --> 53:31.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, if you call that from a public phone, how do they charge you?
[53:31.760 --> 53:33.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's done by ANI.
[53:33.320 --> 53:37.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, they can tell if you're calling from a payphone, and then they'll ask you how you want to have it billed.
[53:42.860 --> 53:46.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you're calling from a residential line, they don't tell you there's a fee involved.
[53:46.160 --> 53:46.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they just bill it right back to your house?
[53:46.940 --> 53:52.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: They just bill it to your phone bill, and you've called an 800 number, and they haven't told you that it costs anything.
[53:52.380 --> 53:53.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think that's...
[53:53.120 --> 53:55.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a scam that's been going on for a few years, actually.
[53:55.500 --> 53:55.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: It has, yeah.
[53:56.100 --> 53:56.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I remember you uncovered that.
[53:56.640 --> 54:00.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, if you call through an operator, they don't get the ANI information.
[54:00.260 --> 54:01.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: They ask you what number you're calling from.
[54:01.860 --> 54:04.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you give them a different number, they will bill it to that number.
[54:06.820 --> 54:07.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[54:07.640 --> 54:12.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: So don't give them like the number of the phone company business office or something, or they'll get billed for it.
[54:12.780 --> 54:13.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't have a good sense of humor.
[54:14.020 --> 54:15.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why don't you play us those tones?
[54:15.340 --> 54:23.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I stored a message in the buffer of this tailored specifically for listeners at home.
[54:23.680 --> 54:30.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if they have a TDD, what's nice about a TDD, unlike a modem, it's a very low-speed five-bit binary code called VODO.
[54:31.360 --> 54:35.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can hold a TDD unit up to a speaker, and it will display the tone.
[54:35.940 --> 54:36.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[54:36.120 --> 54:39.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we'll see if any listeners out there actually are able to decode this message.
[54:39.520 --> 54:42.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Any TDD users out there, hold your TDD up to the speaker of your radio.
[54:42.780 --> 54:45.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this might even work for our real audio customers.
[54:46.060 --> 54:46.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it probably will.
[54:46.860 --> 54:48.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: They might be able to decipher it.
[54:48.880 --> 54:50.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a good test anyway, to see if that actually works.
[54:50.400 --> 54:53.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is only at 45 baud.
[54:54.660 --> 54:56.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Very slow, very slow.
[54:56.620 --> 54:58.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: You might be able to make it out by ear then.
[54:58.700 --> 54:59.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Almost.
[54:59.360 --> 55:00.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: I bet Phiber could do that.
[55:00.700 --> 55:01.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was thinking about that.
[55:01.740 --> 55:03.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: With enough practice, I probably...
[55:03.240 --> 55:04.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here it goes.
[55:04.180 --> 55:04.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let it rip.
[55:33.680 --> 55:34.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I hope that wasn't too long.
[55:35.160 --> 55:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that was fine.
[55:36.100 --> 55:38.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have our technicians working on it right now, in fact, to try and decode that.
[55:39.200 --> 55:40.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the secret message.
[55:40.660 --> 55:48.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can record TDD messages on a tape recorder, the audio tones, and then play them back into a TDD's microphone.
[55:48.240 --> 55:48.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[55:48.800 --> 55:50.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it will display right on the display.
[55:50.360 --> 55:50.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's very neat.
[55:51.000 --> 55:55.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: You could actually leave a TDD message on someone's voicemail and play them back later.
[55:55.480 --> 55:56.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's unlike a...
[55:56.040 --> 55:57.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: It drives the feds crazy.
[55:57.520 --> 55:58.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really does.
[55:58.200 --> 55:59.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've never tried that, and I never will.
[56:00.600 --> 56:15.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, in any event, if somebody figures it out, they can email us, oth at 2600.com, or they can call the 2600 office, 516-751-2600, and tell us what the message said, and I guess we'll say that you were right next week, if you're not right.
[56:15.200 --> 56:20.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I encourage people to find these TDDs wherever they're located in public locations.
[56:20.900 --> 56:33.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, if they don't find one at a shopping mall or a bus station, it's actually required under the Americans with Disabilities Act, the ADA, which passed a few years ago, that they have to be publicly available in these locations.
[56:33.780 --> 56:40.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: So you have to talk to the management and tell them they're not in compliance with the ADA, and they better get their TDD in there, or they'll get sued, and they have to install one.
[56:40.500 --> 56:40.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: So...
[56:40.820 --> 56:42.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we've seen plenty of them at Penn Station.
[56:43.140 --> 56:43.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah?
[56:43.640 --> 56:46.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they have them at most big gathering points.
[56:47.140 --> 56:48.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, by the way, I don't...
[56:48.900 --> 56:51.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have to run out of here, but I should mention this to Bernie.
[56:51.780 --> 56:54.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure if you're familiar with the yellow phones that we have in New York, but they're getting rid of them.
[56:55.140 --> 56:56.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: What are they going to do with them?
[56:56.200 --> 56:57.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what they're going to do with them.
[56:57.300 --> 56:58.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to know that myself, but...
[56:58.360 --> 56:59.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Selling back to Japan, probably.
[56:59.760 --> 57:01.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: The whole project was deemed a failure.
[57:01.680 --> 57:02.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's good.
[57:02.040 --> 57:03.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: New Yorkers just didn't get it.
[57:03.460 --> 57:04.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could have told them it was a failure earlier on.
[57:04.900 --> 57:05.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You seem kind of upset by that.
[57:05.960 --> 57:08.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, Bernie, thank you very much for being part of the show tonight.
[57:08.700 --> 57:09.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for having me.
[57:09.420 --> 57:11.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: And for sharing those little tones with us.
[57:11.880 --> 57:15.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: And hopefully somebody will get the message in and convey it to us.
[57:15.260 --> 57:21.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can also write to us, WBAI, off the hook, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 1-0-0-1-8.
[57:21.380 --> 57:24.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's Emmanuel Goldstein with Phiber Optik and Bernie S. saying goodnight till next week.
[57:26.040 --> 57:27.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you then.
[57:27.140 --> 57:27.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Goodnight.