Thank you very much.
And it's just about eight o'clock, which means it's time for another edition of Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cost.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
I don't know.
Thank you.
And good evening to everybody.
This is Off the Hook, the program about technology and the latest advancements on the Internet and over your telephone system.
And just this week, I witnessed a brand new advance in technology.
Yes, that's right.
I have finally joined the few, the proud, the elite who have seen the future.
And friends, the future is kind of cool.
You know what I did today?
I mean, not today.
Actually, I did it a couple of days ago.
Three guesses.
I held something in my hand.
That's brand new, fiber optic.
Tell me what I did.
You held a DVD player.
No, I didn't hold a DVD player.
I saw a DVD player and I held a DVD.
Oh, you held a DVD.
Now, for those of you who don't know, DVDs stand for Digital Versatile Disc.
They're the size of CDs and they're going to replace videotapes.
They're going to replace CDs.
They're going to replace CD-ROMs.
They're going to replace your brain at some point.
But we'll get into that on a future show.
So, here's the thing.
I managed to find one of the stores.
I mentioned it last week that they're being sold in certain places.
And I found a store that actually was selling a DVD player.
And, you know, I'd never seen one before.
It looks just like, you know, a CD player, I guess.
Kind of big and not very many buttons on it.
But, yeah, you play the CD thing in there and it comes over on the TV set and it's like a laser disc.
You can fast forward, freeze frame and, you know, do different things, see different captions and different camera angles if they programmed it to do that.
But, the one real stipulation, I guess, that comes with this particular piece of technology and, you know, the guy who was trying to sell me this machine sort of was a bit bashful as far as admitting this fact.
But the fact of the matter is that if you buy this thing, there aren't any DVDs anywhere to play.
So, you're buying this big hunk of machinery that you can't use for anything because nothing exists yet.
You know, and the guy's like, yeah, well, there aren't any DVDs.
If there's a demo DVD, you get that.
And it plays CDs, you know.
So, yeah, for $600, I can buy a CD player, you know.
How much was this?
Watch my TV.
It was $600.
I just said $600.
Oh, okay.
Substantially more expensive than a CD player.
Than a CD player.
Yes.
Right.
So, a $600 CD player that plays DVDs, which nobody has.
Now, okay, no problem.
You know, you talk to the salespeople and they say, yeah, you know, right now, there are no DVDs for sale anywhere.
You can't find them.
But that's going to change.
That's going to change.
And no matter where you go, they all have their own theories on this.
Some people say, that's going to change as of 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
That's going to change by next week or, you know, by the third quarter of the year, definitely.
But it's going to change, you know.
Things are going to change and everybody's going to have these DVDs, you know.
Everyone's going to have them.
And you won't be able to walk down the street without being hit by one.
So, as a little experiment, what I'd like to do right now is call up someone who should be an expert.
Now, we already called Radio Shack about this.
We know they don't have a clue.
You know, they didn't even know what DVDs were.
But the places that are really going to see an explosion in the DVD industry, what would you say they are?
I would think a place like The Wiz.
Well, yeah.
An electronics store, sure.
But we know they already are selling them.
I mean, not The Wiz specifically.
They should be selling them.
But as far as actually selling DVDs or renting DVDs or whatever, what kind of place would you suggest?
A video rental place?
Yes.
Very good.
Very good.
A video rental place.
So, I just happen to have here a phone number of a local video rental place.
Now, let's see if we can get a dial tone.
Okay.
Beautiful.
We're going to call them up and ask them when they're going to have DVDs.
And that will influence my decision as to when I buy my DVD player.
Here we go.
Blockbuster Video, 34th Street and 3rd.
Ticket speaking.
I'm out, please.
Hello?
Yes.
Hi.
I'd like to know, when will you have DVDs in stock?
DVDs?
Yes.
Hold on.
Yeah, we do have it already.
You have DVDs in stock?
Yeah, we have, um, just, it's not as many, it's not a lot, but it's a few.
Uh-huh.
It's not as a wide selection.
But you do have some right now?
Yeah, we do.
We have, like, Beauty and the Beast and, um, Joy Luck Club and, like, most, the most popular movies.
Do you have anything R-rated?
R-rated?
No.
Oh.
We don't have those.
But you will?
No, not R-rated.
We don't sell R-rated films.
You don't sell R-rated films at all?
No.
Wait, are these just, are these just for sale or for rental as well?
To rent.
But you do rent R-rated films, don't you?
Yeah.
No, like, like, adult films?
No, I don't mean X.
I mean R.
Oh, yeah, we do.
Yes, we do.
Okay.
But you don't have any on DVD right now?
No.
Just Beauty and the Beast?
I think we have Scarface and stuff like that.
Okay.
All right?
All right, I'll check it out then.
Thanks.
All right.
You're welcome.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Well, you know, that's funny because I believe, no, that wasn't the same store I went to.
I went to a store right afterwards.
You know, they're all the same, so you don't know, you know, what store you're in.
But I was in a Blockbuster and I asked them and they had no, we got into this big, long,
rambling discussion about the future of technology, but nobody knew what a DVD was.
These guys know what DVDs are.
Well, for all you know, they might think you're, you mean Laserdisc.
Should I call them back?
I don't know.
I don't want there to be any misunderstanding.
Because they do rent and sell Laserdisc.
All right.
We're taking a trip later on and we're going to verify this and see.
And I think other people should go over there too and see if they have DVDs, see if they
really know what they're talking about.
And they do have DVD players in some places.
I saw it at PC Richards.
They might have it at the Wiz, but it's coming.
It's here.
You know, it's not longer coming.
It is here now.
It went.
So, okay, this is better.
This is better than the weekend when I saw this thing and I assumed nobody had them.
Now, people are starting to get them.
So, we'll keep you updated as far as that goes.
It's an interesting development there.
Well, now, I think we should clarify, though.
If you do buy one of these $600 Super Duper Specials, you can record stuff, right?
No.
You can't record.
No, they're players.
They're not recorders.
They haven't introduced the recorders yet.
You can't record.
No, they're not recorders.
They're players.
So, it's a hunk of junk, basically.
Well, why do you say that?
I mean, look, it's like a VCR except with no tape.
You know, it's...
It's no record button.
Well, okay.
Yeah, I guess it's just a VC without the R.
Okay.
Yeah, okay.
It doesn't record.
It's a player.
Yeah, but it plays a lot of things, okay?
It's...
I mean, you couldn't record on a Laserdisc player, right?
No, this is true.
Right?
I didn't hear you calling that a hunk of junk.
Well, it is a hunk of junk.
All right.
Well, it is.
Yeah, it's obsolete.
But the point is, yeah, they'll be recordable at some point, I hope.
Right.
Because that's sort of the...
Well, they're also supposed to be compressed and double-sided at some point, too.
Yeah, multi-layer.
They're not even there.
Yeah.
Now, the ones that they're selling, do they have on the back of the unit, do they have
audio and video jacks?
Since the disc could play both audio and video.
I didn't pull out the unit from the wall, but...
So I'd be curious.
What if you buy one and it only plays audio right now?
Uh-huh.
Then you're stuck.
Well, wait a minute.
What do you mean?
It has to play video.
It's supposed to play video, but that wouldn't...
What I'm saying is that on the back of the unit, you'd have to have separate audio and
video jacks.
I imagine you do.
Yeah.
Just like a, you know, a high-quality VCR would.
Right.
Yeah.
But what if it didn't?
What if it only played, like, really high-quality audio and they left out the video part?
How can they leave out the video part when they have it demonstrating in front of a TV
set?
Oh, well, then that's the one that you'd want to get.
Yeah.
Well, that's the only ones they have right now.
Oh, okay.
Well, that's...
They don't have any playing anywhere else.
Okay.
It's in front of...
Because the TV is what draws you in.
Right.
You know?
And by the way, the Toshiba billboard in Queens just changed.
Now it says, use your senses or whatever that thing from the...
Yeah.
Where is this on the LIE?
Yeah, on the LIE.
They've had the DVD is where it's at and Toshiba's where it's from, you know, for the
longest time.
Right.
And nobody knew what that meant.
But now they finally have started an advertising campaign on TV and now they're finally changing
their billboard.
That's called, this is what it is.
But, yeah.
No, they don't say that.
But Toshiba is not selling them yet.
At least I can't find a Toshiba brand anywhere.
Panasonic is the one that they're selling in some places.
So, if you want to be the first on your block, I guess you can do it now.
Although, it's probably going to come down in price quite a bit as they become more popular.
But I'll tell you this.
Mark my words.
And those of you who archive the shows can check this later on.
All right.
It is now March 18th, 1997.
And I am saying, for the record, that within two years, all right?
Within two years.
By 1999, when you go into a video rental store, you're not going to see.
You might see some videotapes.
But you're going to see a whole lot more discs.
You know, CD-sized discs.
And think of all you can fit in the stores now.
You know?
And no more recording pornography onto those Disney films when you rent them.
Because they won't be, you know, recordable at first.
You know?
Or maybe they'll have right-protected DVDs.
Guys, all I'll say is that I remember when I was really young, we were one of the first
people I ever knew, my family, that had an FM AM stereo with an 8-track player.
Well, you were the Jetsons of the neighborhood, I guess.
We were ahead of the game.
That's something.
What do you do with it?
You still have the 8-track?
I'll buy it from you.
No, actually.
There are 8-track clubs, you know.
There are people out there that go around trading 8-tracks to this day.
And they're kind of fanatical, yes.
You don't want to criticize them to their face.
My parents' basement is filled with them.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
They have tons of 8-tracks.
Well, you've just opened them up to be targets for these 8-track club people.
Yeah, they're going to be knocking on the doors now.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, now, I understand something new happened with Omnipoint in the last couple of days.
You want to tell us about that?
I understand.
Okay, I heard two things from Omnipoint.
The first one was actually initially brought to my attention by one of our very own colleagues.
Okay.
That caller ID was beginning to work.
Now, I had heard from Omnipoint themselves about a month ago now that caller ID was being delayed
because they were having a problem getting certification to be connected to the local phone company's SS7 network
so that they could pass the caller ID info and all that.
Right.
Apparently, that has to go through some kind of strict certification process that, of course, 9X does not subject themselves to
because they own the equipment.
Right.
But if somebody else wants to be connected to it, they have to be okayed.
This would go for all the local phone companies, too, that offer service, not just the cell phone companies.
Yeah, right.
This would go for any local company that wants to offer service and pass those kind of features.
Okay.
And so, supposedly, they got this certification fairly recently that it was completed.
And in my neighborhood, in the East Village, I still was not getting caller ID from in between Omnipoint and landlines.
I always got it between other Omnipoint customers.
That always worked.
But between an Omnipoint phone and a landline, we were not getting caller ID.
And then recently, I've heard that some people started getting it.
Up until yesterday, I still did not.
So, I called Omnipoint, and they said that it's still going to be spotty and that it should improve over the course of the next week or two.
And that by the end of this month, it should be close to being solid in New York that we'd have caller ID passed.
Okay.
Well, let's see how spotty it is.
Okay.
I'm going to call you right now, live, over the air.
I'll mute your numbers, of course.
And you're going to tell me what phone number shows up.
Okay.
Or if any phone number shows up.
If any at all, yeah.
Yeah.
So, let's get another dial tone.
All right.
And then we're going to...
Dial your secret number there, and you tell me what you see.
Here we go.
Oh, look at that.
I got a number.
And the number is?
It says 212-279-3403.
No, I dial from 3404.
You are incorrect.
Well, it says 3403.
That experiment failed, didn't it?
Unless, I guess our lines could be marked wrong, but no.
No, that would entail someone here making a mistake, and that does not happen.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's interesting.
I got caller ID.
Caller ID is being passed.
Yeah.
All right.
At least in Midtown it is.
Now, does it work the other way around?
When you call somebody, does your number get sent?
Well, we don't have a box here, but...
What you do is you call the 2600 Voice BBS, and we'll test it.
Well, of course, how are we going to...
Can you do three-way on that thing?
I don't know.
They don't have three-way yet.
Hmm.
How can we get the audio from that over the air?
Um, I don't know if it's loud enough, if I hold it up to the microphone.
Well, let's, uh, give us some sort of audio from there.
Okay.
Give us, like, a tone of some sort, and we'll see if we can hear it.
All right.
Um, I'll call my voicemail.
Okay, we'll see if we can hear your voice.
I hear it a beep.
Okay, that's very, very low.
Why don't you do this?
Why don't you just dial by yourself?
You know, the number 516-473-2626 is the voicemail system.
And then, I believe it's option four, and then option two reads back your number from caller ID.
Okay, four and then two.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's see what happens.
And, uh, well, you'll tell us what, um, what progress you make on that.
Um, we also have some other information regarding some other fun things that have been happening over the last week.
But let me give out the phone number, which is 212-279-3400.
We'll be taking phone calls rather shortly, talking about, uh, various things that have happened.
If you've had experiences with DVD or, um, still have comments about the, um, the upcoming area code split of 212 or anything else that might be on your mind,
give us a call, 212-279-3400.
How are you faring there?
Um, isn't it 474?
No, it's 47, it's what I just told you.
473-2626.
It didn't work.
I mean, it didn't work.
I didn't even get connected.
The machine sounds like an error.
Yeah, the, the, the, the greeting sounds like an error message.
Oh, I hung up.
I thought that was a real error.
You got fooled by that?
Well, I can't tell if it's a real error.
You know how embarrassing that is?
I'm going to, I'm going to play for people on the air.
Okay.
So they know what you just got taken in by.
All right?
It's busy now.
Well, that's because we just gave out the number to everybody.
Of course it's busy now.
Nice going there.
Dial the wrong number and hang up.
Well, okay, so we're going to have to wait till, uh, till people get bored doing that.
Unbelievable.
Okay, well, while, while that's happening.
While that's happening.
Uh, there is some mischief on the net this week.
You want to tell us?
Mischief on the net, yeah.
What was going on there?
The, the mischief.
Um.
This is something you didn't read about in the papers.
No, this, actually, no.
I heard at the, at the last moment, I think it was today, that it made today's, uh, was
it a magazine?
PC week or something or other?
Well, there is no PC week today.
It's a weekly thing.
Oh, that's right.
The newspapers come out every day.
Yeah, no, it would have had to have been a newspaper.
I thought I heard that it might have been, um, printed up in the papers, but.
I scanned the papers.
I didn't see anything about it.
Why don't you tell us, and then, if there is something, we'll know.
Okay.
What it is, is, um, there's been a hole in the, the software that's used to run Usenet
news servers for the people out there that read Usenet, which are basically a collection
of special interest groups and, of, of all sorts.
Uh, that get, uh, distributed around, around the world.
Um, the actual servers that the, this news is housed on, uh, the software that runs it
is called INN, Internet Network News, uh, uh, demon.
And there was a, a security hole in INN that had to do with the way control messages were
passed from news administrators to news servers.
Like, for example, if somebody adds a new news group, a control message goes out to all
the INN news servers all over the world.
And it, it, it's told to execute the commands contained in that message, in that control
message that say to add the group on that machine.
And the problem with that is that INN was not, um, carefully checking the contents of
those messages as far as what commands could and could not be executed.
Well, it just so happened that somebody thought it'd be, uh, really neat if they forged a, a
Usenet control message from a known Usenet administrator, news administrator, and they sent it out and it
went out to all the INN servers in the world.
And the message was a new group control message, which actually said, uh, asked, uh, some very
simple questions.
What's the name of the machine and what operating system is it running?
Who is currently logged in?
What's the contents of the password file and what system services are running?
And that information got mailed back to a site in Sweden.
Mm-hmm.
How many sites still run unshadowed password files?
Um, what percentage would you say do that?
I, um, probably the majority of the ones I can say that I've seen do are probably, uh, corporate.
Uh-huh.
There's a lot, a lot of corporate sites, um, who are running older OSs like Sonos and
stuff like that.
How about educational sites?
Um, educational sites tend to, to be pretty savvy simply because they've had to deal with
it.
Mm-hmm.
They've had to deal with students hacking password files and so on.
I guess we should assume that .gov and .mil are also kind of savvy.
Or should we maybe not jump?
One would hope.
Yeah.
I don't think we should jump to conclusions.
Okay.
But, um, it's, it's certainly going to be a bounty of information.
Now, funny thing is that there was, there was an update to this message.
Um, somebody at Amoco, um.
What, the gas people?
Yeah.
Okay.
And somebody at Amoco Corporation apparently received, um, a new group message that, uh,
added a group that, that he thought looked funny because it had a dollar sign in it.
Uh-huh.
And he investigated that fact because normally you can't create a new news group that has
a dollar sign in the name.
When he investigated it, he found out that apparently it was created using the same kind
of scheme of passing shell commands, Unix shell commands in the new group request.
And he tried it himself.
And unfortunately, he started getting responses from, uh, onwards and upwards of about 500
news servers from all over the world before he realized that it went out everywhere else.
He intended on trying it only on himself, on his own news server.
But obviously, unwittingly, uh, to, to him, it went out to the whole world.
By the time he sent out a cancel message to kill it, it was already too late.
He was already getting hundreds of responses back from news servers that were in the
innocently executing his commands.
So what does this tell you?
This, this tells us that, uh, anyone, uh, any, any administrator out there who is running
a new server and does not upgrade to version 1.5.1 of INN is in serious trouble.
Only the latest version of INN fixes this problem.
Otherwise, if you run a new server, no matter where you are on the net, uh, you can have problems.
Uh-huh.
Oh, problems.
That's, uh, that's our middle name.
And that's what we'll be investigating in the weeks and months ahead.
Um, I haven't seen any media, I mean, this is sort of like what Robert Morris did, sort
of, except that he's not crashing the whole head, whoever this person is.
Yeah, I mean, it's similar in that it affects systems on a grand scale, but this is much
easier to do.
Yeah.
So how come nobody else did it?
I mean, it seems so simple.
It is.
It's very simple.
I think that, um, it was just one of those things it's been known about for months that
this problem existed.
Why is it everybody knows about these things for months and then finally something happens
and everyone says, oh, you know, maybe we should do something about it now.
Well, actually, no, the patch, the patch actually came out months ago.
Uh-huh.
But I, I think it went largely ignored by news administrators.
Really?
For whatever reason.
Well, if you're a news administrator out there, ask yourself if you ignore this patch and if
your systems are now vulnerable.
That's, uh, so I imagine, um, uh, are, are sites that you've worked on, have they been
hit by this?
Um, I haven't talked to any, uh, of the ISPs that I've had any affiliation with, so I don't
know.
Uh-huh.
But, um, I can only assume that they, that they would have been.
If they, if they're not running, uh, 1.5.1.
Well, I mean, let's assume that, you know, they, they got hit by it and they're just running
a shadow password file.
Is that enough to protect them?
Uh, yeah.
Then, in, in that case, it's probably not so bad.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a simple thing and that's been going on for years.
People have been running shadow password files.
Yeah.
So, I mean, in those cases, it's, it's going to be, uh, fairly decent protection.
And again, the, uh, the, the control messages that get executed are only executed with,
with news privileges of whatever the news user is, not root.
Uh-huh.
So it's not like you could, you could mail the Etsy shadow file.
That, uh, that sound means that the voicemail system is still busy.
Boy, what have we started now?
People are, are, are, are going to stay on there all night.
Yeah.
Just listening to their number.
Well, or whatever else is on there, too.
You can listen to all kinds of messages and things, but, uh, oh, we'll try later.
I guess.
Or we'll, we'll try off the air, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we'll just, we'll find out for ourselves and we won't tell you.
How's that?
Ha.
Ha.
Let's show you.
Okay.
Well, let's take some phone calls.
212-279-3400.
Uh, oh, there's an article in what?
Yesterday's New York Times.
Yeah.
And, uh, business day.
What's this concerning?
And, uh, it's, it's kind of funny, uh, article.
It's, uh, called, uh, Feeling Insecure, Are We?
And it says, go ahead, be paranoid.
Hackers are out to get you.
Oh, that's, that's, that's nice to know.
Yeah.
And, um, it's, uh, it's basically an article about, um, about IBM and a number of, uh, mainly
IBM.
It also mentions some of the, uh, the big six auditing firms and how they've been doing,
uh, security penetrations.
And, um, it has some, uh, pointers on preventing a hack attack, some, some really simple, straightforward
ones, uh, do's and don'ts.
So, um, you might want to check it out.
Uh, again, that's in yesterday's, uh, business section of the Times.
Uh-huh.
There was a front page article on yesterday's Newsday about, uh, um, schools going onto the
Internet.
Did you see that?
No.
Nobody gets Newsday in, in the city, but, uh, it was basically, uh, about the, the hazards
of, um, of having everybody in the, in the school system going onto the Internet.
It was actually a pretty good article.
I mean, I didn't really see anything that got me mad in that article.
Uh, they talked about, um, about some of the, uh, censorship programs that, uh, kind
of block access.
One, one student had a problem because they were doing research on same-sex schools, and
of course, the little robot thing jumped in and said, no, no, you can't look up something
with the word sex in it, and, uh, that, uh, that led to problems.
So, um, I don't know, it's going to be interesting.
What do you think of having every single classroom on the net in some form by the year 2000?
I'll tell you, it's going to be great for the child porn industry.
Uh, yeah, I suppose so, but, um, I was thinking more along the lines of how about communication
between the, you know, the various, uh, educational systems of, of various states and counties.
Well, of course, that's definitely a plus, too.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's, I think, what was in mind.
You know, actually, actually, no, I've got, um, I've got another story that, that I saw,
I think I saw this on CNN's, uh, website, that Bill Gates and some other guy are, like,
investing in this company that's, that's shooting up all these satellites, hundreds, thousands
of satellites all over the place, and instead of going, what, 22,300 miles above the, uh,
the Earth's orbit, or above the Earth, rather, in, in orbit.
They're going to be above each and every person's head.
Yeah, well, almost, only 400 or so miles.
Now, that would be good for one thing, there's no delay, you know, there's that annoying
satellite delay that you get when you bounce something off, you know, you're going practically
50,000 miles there, because you're going up and then down again.
Right.
So there's a delay, and when you're on the internet, that's kind of hard to, to deal with.
These satellites are going to be all over the place, about 400 or 500 miles up.
There won't be a delay, there'll be, you know, over every single country, and, um, from what
I read, it'll be possible to speak to, um, to classrooms in the middle of Africa, you
know, and, and Asia, and places like that, places that we don't have contact with right
now on the net.
So, I don't know, I see that as a good thing, but I'm not sure where, where Bill Gates is
going with it.
Now, um, only 400 or 500 miles, though, what keeps them up in the air?
Uh, they're in a low orbit, and, um, I guess, uh, that's...
How, I didn't think 400 miles was high enough.
I, I, yeah, they, they don't stay in the same place.
They do move.
So they have their own boosters or something?
I don't know.
I think maybe they have, maybe somebody out there can help us with this.
Because I would think the orbit would decay, and they'd come crashing down on top of your
house.
I'm sure they've thought of this.
Okay.
They don't, they don't want that to happen any more than we do.
Okay.
But, uh, look on CNN's website.
I think that's where the story is that I saw.
Um, we really should get a computer in here so we can, we can access things like that.
So, um, all right, uh, 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, it's me, not Rebel.
How you doing?
Uh, okay.
Okay, first, you mentioned Bill Gates.
Yes.
Did you catch the satire of him played by Ed Begley Jr. on Star Trek Voyager?
Uh, was that supposed to be Bill Gates?
I, I did see that.
It was like, yeah, it was really camouflaged, but I, I was, I like stayed up all night to
figure out Bill Gates.
Uh-huh.
Okay, now, I actually have for you a 9X horror story, okay?
9X horror story.
Yes, I was inspired last week when you mentioned voice, um, activated calling.
I thought I would call up and, you know, see how much it would cost or order it myself.
I first called that number 1-800-459-X and I got someone who answered, sounded like some
18-year-old college nerd temp.
And here's a live person who answered the phone, and you know what he said to me?
What's that?
All the operators are busy.
Give me your name and number.
We'll have to call you back.
So I said, well, what about you?
He said, well, no, my job is just to answer the phone and tell people that.
And then I said, could I just hang on and wait?
He said, no, um, give me your name and number, I'll call you back.
So I didn't, um, do that.
I then tried 1-800-698-3545, pressed the option for, um, you know, to get information
on voice calling, and the computer said that it's not available for my number.
It transferred me to a representative.
The representative told me it was available for my number, and she was going to, like,
look into my records and give me the information.
She put me on hold, and after 20 minutes, I hung up.
I guess that's, like, about an average story, right, for 9X?
Yeah, there's really, I don't really see a horror story in there.
I see a typical story.
That does happen all the time.
Yeah, oh, about that.
Now, what is it, DVD you were talking about?
Yes, Digital Versatile Disc.
Well, I keep thinking BVD, I don't know if you have any fun, you know, um, making a pun
out of it with that.
Now, let me, let me ask, how is this different, different than the now obsolete CD-i?
Um, CD-i.
CD-i is just regular CDs.
No, well, you were, on the Philips CD-i play with an adapter, it was also able to play
videos, and you also hooked it up to your TV and it played CDs.
Yeah, but it's just computer data stored on a regular CD, with audio tracks.
So how is this different?
Well, this, this is, this is a lot more highly compressed.
Uh, you look in the back of a CD, you can see the data, you actually can see where things
are stored, all right?
Um, you look in the back of a DVD, you can't see anything.
It's all, it's all so tightly compressed there, there's no differentiation at all.
Um, it's, I mean, I don't know that, that technical reasons why it stores so much more,
but I do know that it can, it can handle, uh, what, a CD-ROM can handle, what, 600 megs?
About 650 megs.
And a DVD, well, right now, even single-sided, even single-layer, they can handle something
like, uh, I think six gigs.
Well, you know, the whole rip-off about the record industry charging, like, double the price
of an LP for a CD when it doesn't really cost them that much to produce.
So do you think a DVD will go for, like, $25 or $30?
No, I don't think so.
You know why?
Because nobody has these things, they want people to buy them, so they're going to make
them as cheap as possible.
Well, that's not true, because the same thing happened with CDs.
The, um, demand, you know, exceeded the, uh, supply, and the prices were even much higher
than they are now to start with.
Yeah, but you see, CDs replaced something that really needed replacing.
Records got scratched and old, and you always had to buy them again.
Uh, CDs seem to be working out.
People aren't going to want to replace all their CD libraries with, uh, this other thing
just because people tell them it's better.
But, uh, when there's more on it, when there's videos, interactive games, and audio all on the
same thing...
Right.
And that'll eventually replace CD-ROM players and computers, so all the power available
just, uh, you know, it's unimaginable, right?
I guess.
And the last thing, um, how do you feel about that old wives' tale about the green, uh,
pencil, you know, putting it on the CD to make it sound better?
You hear stuff like that, or...?
Huh?
Well, you're supposed to take, like, a green magic marker and, like, draw a line, I think,
on the perimeter or the inside of a CD, and some audiophile say it somehow improves, um,
fidelity.
I guess you haven't heard of it.
Well, we're just, uh, sitting here in stunned silence, but, uh, I, I know some people have
heard of this, because I just see some people nodding, but I don't, I don't know.
That's a good one.
The last thing, if you have some free time later, could you call that 9X payment center
that Rebel spoke about last week to see if that free phone is still there?
I'd be curious.
I think that's still being operated by the police now, uh, since last week's show, but
thanks, thanks very much for calling.
Let's, uh, take some more calls.
You know, no matter what button I hit, I either get him or I get Rebel, you know?
You should pick a button, but then don't hit it, and then hit another one without looking.
You want me to do that?
Yeah.
All right.
No, you're looking.
You can't look.
All right, but, I mean, I think I should look.
No, just, just here.
Put your finger down.
You see, that's, that's what happens if I don't look.
I have to look, because I have to see what lines are flashing.
All right, go ahead, look.
All right.
That one, that, okay.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Well, well, well, thank you for taking my call.
Uh, no problem.
I always love when people say that on, on radio shows, and they say, thank you for taking
my call, I'm, I'm just like, yeah, right.
We wouldn't dream of taking your call.
We'll simply share your call.
You'll, you'll just borrow it for a little while.
We'll get right back to you when you're finished.
I, I must tell you that I now have, uh, internet access and, an email account, and, uh, I'm
a proud owner of, uh, web TV.
And, uh, I was wondering what you guys, uh, have as an opinion of, uh, web TV.
Have you tried it out and such?
I have not.
Fiverr, have you?
I've actually, I've seen it at, uh, at J&R.
And, um, it seemed, it seemed amusing.
It's interesting, you know?
Well, tell us what you can do with your web TV.
First of all, I want to tell you that, uh, there's a remarkable difference between the
two units.
Even though the, the salesman will say that there's absolutely no difference between the
Philips Magnavox and the Sony unit, the Sony unit, even when it's off, it's very, very hot.
And the last thing I want when I leave for work in the morning is something that's like
off, totally off, and it's totally hot.
And I don't know why the Sony units have so much heat coming out of them.
And heat also, uh, ruins electrical components.
So, uh, I chose also the, uh, the Magnavox because, uh, the smart card reader is covered
by a door, whereas the Sony unit, it's just exposed to the air and dust can get in.
But, so, um, you know, that's the first reasons, uh, why I bought the Philips Magnavox unit.
The email sucks, I have to tell you.
You can't cut and paste.
You can't, if someone sends you an email, you can only, um, attach their email and then
write them a fresh letter with their email beneath it.
You can't cut and paste and put little carrot symbols.
So, that's, that's a drawback.
The real audio is right now 2.0.
They promised 3.0, but most of the radio stations on the net are on, uh, 3.0.
So, it makes it impossible to hear 90% of the radio stations.
And that's a big reason why I bought it.
Have you checked out our show?
Now, I've checked out the 2600 site, but I...
We don't have a stream, but we do, you download it and, uh, you listen to it that way, actually.
Oh, I only checked out the 2600 site, but I didn't see anything on how to, um, how to,
uh, I'll have to go back and, uh, take a look.
Yeah, it's in there.
All right, um, also, there's something about, now, what is frames?
It seems that, uh, every, every other site, they say, sorry, you're not using frames, so
click here and you can get our site.
And it seems kind of odd from my perspective.
What is frames?
Frames is, uh, in Netscape, it's a way of, uh, divvying up the screen, basically.
Uh-huh.
Um, if, if your, I don't know what, what browser they based web TV on, but apparently...
Well, it's their own.
Yeah, I guess, it doesn't support frames, apparently.
Right.
And they can detect that when, when you connect to something.
Yeah.
But, um...
Actually, you know, a lot of people are moving away from frames.
I've, I've heard a lot of, you know, critical thought saying that frames really...
Well, I, I get irritated by frames sometimes because it'll divide up the screen.
Right.
And it's nice, you can scroll in one part of the screen and scroll in another, but sometimes
you go to another site and one of the frames stays behind.
Oh, yeah.
No, we can't do that.
All we can do is page up and down.
Right.
So we have to have an entire page.
But it's really nice seeing it on a nice big, uh, colored television, having the web right
on your, you know, your living room, uh, TV.
And also the wireless keyboard is about two thirds the size of a regular keyboard and it's
wireless.
So it just fits on your lap and it's like a big remote control.
When you, when you connect to a site that has sound on it, does, do you get the sound?
I don't mean really.
Um, some, several band sites as, as, uh, as soon as you hook into their, uh, site, you
get like, um, some synthesizer music, some homemade music, uh, as like a tribute to the
band that comes in beautifully, absolutely beautiful.
Tell us about picture quality.
Picture quality is outstanding.
Really?
It's outstanding.
It's far better than any monitor.
And I have the internet at work and, and when I go, go to work in the morning, I feel like,
geez, if, you know, if I had this at home, I would feel deprived.
And, you know, I, it's, you know, I mean, work, you know, you're at your desk and you have
space for work and space for the computer, but at home, it's really nice on the,
on, uh, I have a, uh, I guess it's, um, uh, 20 inch TV, I would guess.
Uh-huh.
So it's, it's really nice.
And how much did you pay for your system?
Well, the Wiz had a gigantic sale around President's Day, so I got it at 10% off.
Um, so I paid for the unit and the, uh, wireless, uh, keyboard.
I paid $400 even, including tax.
And, uh, it's been fun.
Uh-huh.
So, uh, thought I'd pass it along.
Also, one, uh, question regarding 9X.
I got my, uh, 9X bill, and I kind of went over it in detail, and I was really, um, shocked
by a few things.
Um, first of all, for a bill for $41, I have, um, surcharges and taxes, $9.96?
Well, there's all kinds of taxes and surcharge, MTA surcharge, 9-1-1 system surcharge.
9-1-1 surcharge, New York State local surcharge, $5.09.
I mean, for a $41 bill, $10 was taxes?
Well, yeah, I mean, you know.
I mean, like, what's going on here?
Don't I have some choice in the matter?
Between tax and tip, you've got about 25% normally, right?
It's about 25%.
Uh-huh.
I'm shocked.
I never noticed it before.
That's, uh, that is something.
So you actually save more money the more your bill is, because then the tax is a lot less.
How do you figure that is, percentage-wise?
Is it, though?
Oh, I think so.
It's not a flat tax?
Well, I do know that the, um, the FCC line charge is, um, uh, that's a set rate.
Right.
That's what, $4 per line?
Yeah, some of them are flat.
Yeah.
So were you including that in your, in your assessment?
Me?
Yeah, the FCC line charge?
Let's see, yes.
Yeah, $3.50.
Oh, one last, uh, one last question for you.
What is the difference between Java and JavaScript?
Because Web TV will not support Java, but it will take JavaScript.
So what's the deal there?
JavaScript, uh, well, they're both from Sun.
JavaScript is actually an extension to the hypertext markup language that makes up web pages.
JavaScript is, uh, they took some of the features and functionality of Java and added it as an extension to HTML.
Java itself is a whole nother object-oriented language that people could use, uh, not only for, uh, for sprucing up websites, but also as a general purpose language.
But, uh, it's a platform-independent language.
That is, any program that you write in Java will run exactly the same on no matter what machine you run it on.
So it's well-suited for the web.
All right.
Oh, um, one final, final, um, thing.
It seems that Web TV users on, um, Usenet groups, now we don't get Usenet, but we do get, uh, Deja News.
And I'm noticing a lot of flack that, um, there seems to be a lot of snobbery regarding people who have PCs and saying, now this web TV is going to ruin it for everyone.
Now anyone can get on, you know?
And it's like, it just seems like, you know, it seems very, uh, snobbish, you know?
Deja News is Usenet.
Oh, it is Usenet?
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, Deja News, you're getting it from the Deja News service?
Yeah.
Yeah, they're just a service that offers a Usenet feed.
Yeah, you're getting the same Usenet snobs that the rest of us get.
Oh, that's cool.
So then I, new ones.
That's cool.
But what about this, um, you know, these comments that are flying around?
You know, I punched into Deja News, I punched in web TV, and I saw all of this kind of like, if anyone has ampersandwebtv.net after their name, um, you know, don't communicate with them because they're just couch potatoes.
Well, you know, you get, you get people who are afraid of, um, of, you know, masses entering into something.
And, you know, to a degree, they're right because, you know, a lot of this community has been built by hackers, by people who have been, like, designing systems most of their lives, and then all of a sudden to have, you know, everybody in the country suddenly getting access and, and, and I guess you consider it like the network TV syndrome where everything has to please everybody.
You don't want that to happen to the net.
You don't want the net to be changed to suit everybody.
Basically, the net has to be shaped to suit each individual, uh, the way they want it to be.
And I, I think, I think that's something that a lot of people fear won't happen.
I remember, uh, you, Emmanuel, saying, um, when some ham operators, uh, wrote into you and said that, uh, because of ham operators, they invented packet radio, and that invented kind of like email in a way.
And you were saying, like, geez, you know, what's with these hams, you know?
Uh-oh.
So, uh...
You don't, you don't criticize hams.
That's, that's a mistake.
There you go.
Yeah.
Take care, guys.
All right.
That's why, that's why Nixon had to resign, really.
He, he angered the hams.
Yeah, right.
It'll come out, it'll come out.
I think he was a ham.
The rest of his papers are released, you'll see.
Okay, that worked out pretty well.
Uh, picked a random number and got a fairly decent call there.
Uh, I'd like to, uh, while, while we still have the chance.
By the way, I did call the voicemail system when I got through, and it still identified me as being out of area.
Okay, let's see what that message was.
That you fell for.
Oh, when I heard the three, the three tones, I hung up right away.
Right away.
You thought this was a real error.
Well, it's the same three tones.
Well, yeah, but it's not the same message.
I didn't listen to it.
If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
If you need help, stay on the line, and a hacker will assist you shortly.
So, I didn't, I didn't listen to the very ending.
Uh, no, no.
Well, the thing is, you have to listen.
You have to listen to every single message to know whether or not you're getting a real one.
Because there's all kinds of weird things there.
Okay, so the caller ID does not work going into 9X.
Well, at least going to Long Island.
Uh-huh.
I think right now it's, uh, there's, it's, um, depending where you are.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, well, we'll keep reporting on that and updating people.
About this web TV, do you think we should get web TV for Beyond Hope?
Um, somehow, somehow I think not.
Why not?
It sounds like a good alternative for people who want to be able to access the web,
but don't want to have to be bothered learning how to use a computer.
Right.
That's who I think it's targeted at.
Well, which do you think would be better to have?
Uh, a computer set up with, uh, with web access or a big TV someplace set up with web access
that we can demonstrate various things?
I think it would be...
Or maybe both.
We could do both.
I think it would be a lot easier to just take the video output from one of the computers
and feed it into a projection TV.
Yeah.
Because then you have exactly what the computer can do.
You don't have to worry, oh, I don't have Java, oh, I don't have frames, I can't look
at this site.
Mm-hmm.
It's true.
By the way, if you want more information on the Beyond Hope conference happening in
August, connect to our website, www.2600.com.
All the information is there, and it's changing every day, so you'll, uh, you'll get updated
if you check it frequently.
Okay, 212-279-3400.
I'm going to try that random number thing again.
Um, I'll do this one.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, I was wondering if Bernie had, uh, tried, uh, playing with his little PTY unit on
some shortwave reception, because a lot of utility stations use that baudit code.
Uh, I'm sure he's, he's played around with it.
He's not here tonight.
But, uh, did you happen to try to decode the message he sent last week?
No, actually, I wasn't listening last week.
I was thinking of, uh, pulling it off the web and then seeing if I decode it.
I got some software for receiving RIDI transmissions.
Uh-huh.
Well, that will be available this weekend on, uh, on the website, so you can, uh, download
it there.
I, hopefully, Real Audio won't mangle it too badly.
But, uh, nobody has, has, um, responded as far as guessing what the message was.
Yeah, no, my friend told me that, uh, oh, he didn't listen, you know, he was, uh, he was
talking about, uh, TTY transitions.
Oh, really?
Uh-huh.
And whatnot, so, uh, I guess, hmm, I'll have to see if it's the same format.
$10,000 prize will go unclaimed.
Oh, we didn't mention that, did we?
Well, what $10,000 prize?
Uh, the one that expired just now.
Oh, okay.
So, um, okay, yeah, well, um, um, I, I haven't ever played with that myself.
Mm-hmm.
But I know Bernie S. is big into that kind of thing.
And, um, there's a, there's a lot you can learn from him as far as that goes.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So, uh, maybe he'll be on next week.
Okey-doke.
All right, thanks for calling.
Bye.
Okay, another random number?
Sure.
All right, let's go for this one.
Good winner.
Good evening, you're on the air.
I don't know what, if I'm a winner or not.
Uh, you're a winner because you're talking to us.
Well, I, I'm not sure if you'll think so, uh, after, I'm, I'm not sure, I, I just am hearing
the show for the first time.
And I was kind of curious, um, do, uh, do recommendations, you were kind of talking about audio stuff
before, do you do, like, um, recommendations on, um, audio systems?
Uh, you mean stereos?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, not really.
We basically talk about phones and computers and things like that.
Oh, and computers.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Well, I was looking into getting a new audio system.
I was at, uh, the Wiz and, um, today.
And they have all these newfangled little supposed big power boxes and small compart, you know,
and small containers.
And I just.
Well, the best thing you can do is, is shop around different places.
Uh, I mean, what are you looking for?
Just a, a, a radio receiver, CD player?
No, well, first I thought I was going to get, you know, um, they're always, uh, advertising
these, like, I was, or Sony's, and they're, like, four or five hundred dollars, they have
one twenty or, you know, one sixty watts, or something like that.
And then you go and look at them, and they're these little plastic things that, you know,
you just wonder how, what kind of quality they are.
So then I was thinking, well, I'll just go get it component by component again.
Well, now, what are you looking to do, though?
Just get the whole thing, receiver, um, dual cassette player, and CD.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, because, I mean, a lot of people's needs are served quite well by those, uh, those
boom boxes that people carry.
Right.
Uh, some of them are, are, you know, they, they sound pretty nice, and you can have a
CD player, a couple of tape, uh, machines in there as well.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, it's, it's a lot cheaper than buying something component by component.
Right.
If you're a real audiophile, obviously, you want to do it that way.
Right, right.
It would just seem like they were so nice and compact that I thought, well, you know, maybe
we should go for that.
Yeah.
Because we were just going to hook it up to our great old speakers that are really terrific
speakers.
Uh-huh.
But anyway, so, um, I, I just was curious if, if anybody had a recommendation on what
the best, um, name brand system is out there, or if they're all the same anymore.
Well, I, I would suggest calling the, uh, the audiophile show, but we don't have one.
Is there an audiophile show?
No, you know, it's a good idea that should be one, because how better, you know, on an
FM radio station, you can demonstrate these things and, and show people what's better and
why and, and things like that.
So, yeah.
What a great idea.
Maybe somebody will submit the program proposal here at KDI.
Is there an audiophile show that or I have to go to Consumer Reports, right?
Yes.
That's, that's a good idea, actually.
They'll, they'll tell you a lot of things.
Okay.
All right.
Thanks for calling.
Bye.
Hopefully we could help out in some way.
A subject we know absolutely nothing about.
I'm surprised you didn't try to hock that DVD stuff on her.
Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna push DVD on somebody who's looking for a stereo.
No, I'm not gonna do that.
I, I don't get anything out of this, you know.
Although I, I still could be the first person in the city to buy one.
Yeah.
I understand.
No one has bought one yet.
A couple of them are sitting around various stores, but nobody has, because there's no,
no discs to play, you know, it's a very simple reason.
Once they have discs, you know, what was it?
Oh, Blockbuster.
Snow White.
Is that it?
No, they said they have Scarface.
Scarface.
Yeah, probably the Disney version.
Yeah, along with the other Disney titles, Scarface.
Well, we're gonna amble on over there and see just what they have.
Yeah.
See if it's, if it's LaserDisc or CD or what, you know.
We're gonna investigate that and report back next week.
All right, let's, we're three for three so far.
Yeah.
Picked random numbers and got three different people, and they were all interesting.
Yep.
So let's, let's try somebody else.
Oh, I almost went to that line.
I almost went to that line, and that would have been a mistake.
I'm gonna go over here.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hello, this is Zero.
Hi, Zero.
How are you doing?
Okay.
Bunch of guys from the 2600 meeting will know me.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah, I mentioned the, the, I was hearing you talk about the Usenet security hole, and
if anybody's interested in following up on it, the New York Times had something on its
website, but not in print.
Ah, its website.
Yeah, their Cyber Times website.
You have to be a member, but if you're in the U.S., it's free to register.
You know, I've registered for that service maybe about four times.
I keep forgetting my password, so I keep re-registering.
Right, right.
That's really kind of funny.
Right.
Um, so anyway, I, I, uh, was able to print out a story.
I haven't had time to read it yet, and, uh, they do have an example of the, uh, messages,
the way the messages work, and then there's a, there's an example of one of the faulty
messages, too.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
So, uh, type it in and amaze your friends.
Right, right.
Yeah, there you go.
So, um, I just wanted to share that with anybody who's interested in following up on it.
And, uh, also, Emmanuel, I left you a message on your voicemail today at 2600, so if you'll
check it.
Um, I didn't use my name, Zero, but, uh, my, my first name's Eric, so if you'll check that,
I'd appreciate it.
I'll rush right over as soon as we get off the air.
Whenever, whenever you've got time, I know you're busy, so, um, anyway, that's about
it.
Okay.
Well, thanks for calling.
Thank you.
Bye.
I don't know if I even remember my password on the voicemail system, to be honest, but,
uh, I'll work it out.
Anybody, anybody on the net could do this thing with, with Usenet.
Is that, uh?
Yeah.
Well, why don't we do it?
Well, we don't have a computer in front of us.
Well, not right now, but I'm saying, why don't we do it and see what kind of response
to it?
Oh, yeah, we can see, uh, how many people still haven't, uh, haven't upgraded.
As long as everybody knows we're doing it, you know.
Right.
Is it illegal to, to simply send a request out on a, on a public message?
I don't think so.
I mean, uh, I was a news administrator in the recent past.
I'd like to know what kind of response we would get.
Yeah.
So, um, well, all right, news administrators, if you see that kind of request coming from
us, just, you know, let it go.
Just ignore it.
Yeah.
Don't call the feds.
We'll put a remark in the file.
Please ignore.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Uh, 212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, Manuel.
Fiber.
How you doing?
Hi.
What's up?
Uh, it's the guy who spelled Van Eck wrong again.
Ah, the guy who spelled Van Eck wrong.
Oh.
That's me.
Okay.
The guy who complained about hotels.
Yes.
The annoying person.
Yes.
Uh, well, I just wanted to bring to your attention, maybe you didn't notice, but in February 3rd's
issue of Fortune, um, you were actually mentioned in the cover story.
Actually, was that the February issue or the April issue?
February.
Aren't we in the, oh, that's, that's Fortune.
We're in the April issue of, uh...
The April didn't happen yet.
Uh, well, no, but the magazines come out early.
Um, I don't know, some magazine we're in.
Oh, yeah.
Well, the cover is who's reading your email.
It could be anybody, your competitor, your boss.
Right.
Or the hackers we hired to show how easy it is.
It could be a manual.
Uh-huh.
So what did they say about us?
Well, they said, um, I think I have a quote here somewhere.
Hmm, uh, could you give me a sec?
Uh, uh, oh, well, it's something about how magazines like FRAC and 2600 go under the,
oh, here it is.
Periodicals like FRAC and 2600, the Hacker Quarterly, provide step-by-step tips for hackers.
They claim they're performing a public service by helping people exploit gaps in computer security.
Yes, we claim that, but our real motives are known to those of us who know what our real motives are.
Yeah.
Yes.
Sinister, a secret organization.
Yes, that, um, yeah, I guess that's how they look at us.
Ah.
Well, I also wanted to ask you, when's the next 2600 FAQ coming out?
Uh, I haven't checked Voyager's, uh, bulletin board.
I cannot tell you because we don't do that.
Oh.
Somebody does that outside our organization.
Oh, it isn't?
It does not express the, the opinions.
Uh, it's an independent production, and it comes out when that person feels,
like putting it out.
Oh.
Okay?
All right.
All right, listen, thanks for calling.
Oh, thank you.
Take care.
Uh, we're going to try to squeeze in a couple more phone calls.
212-279-3400.
Uh, let's go over there.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, it's you.
This person's in shock.
You're on the air.
Hello?
Yes, you are on the air.
I'm just wondering what the, uh, Euthenet security hole was.
What kind of phone are you using?
It's a speakerphone?
Oh, boy.
I, I think you're using a muffled phone.
I, I, I, all right.
You want to know about the Euthenet security what?
Uh, what was the thing you were talking about?
Euthenet?
Yeah, he wants to know what thing we were talking about with Euthenet.
Briefly, give him the CNN headline news version.
The, uh, Euthenet security hole.
Uh, it only affects Euthenet servers.
Mm-hmm.
Not people who read Euthenet.
Right.
People who read Euthenet have absolutely nothing to fear.
Well, unless that password gets read and, and then guessed.
Well, if they're on a system that, yeah, but most people read news with a newsreader offline.
If you're a news administrator, pay attention.
Otherwise, just wait for something to, to happen.
I guess it's the best way to do it.
Okay.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, Jones.
How are you doing?
Okay.
How are you?
Yeah.
Enjoying your show.
Oh, thank you.
Listen, uh, um, I shouldn't say listen because you actually listen to me, right?
Uh, I, I, are you guys aware of, uh, the, the Beacon program?
The what program?
The Beacon program.
Beacon?
Yeah.
Uh, tell us about it.
Well, what happened is, uh, uh, me and David, uh, Dinkins, uh, more or less created this,
uh, after school program.
Okay.
You and David Dinkins?
Uh, yeah, and, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You guys are funny.
No, what happened is he established an after-school program, and he called it The Beacon, right?
And they had about, say, 40 different locations in all five boroughs.
And the location that I'm dealing with right now is at the Wintrop location in Brooklyn.
And it's run by Curtis Nelson.
And for the past couple of years or so, they've been averaging like 1,000 people coming through just a computer training program.
They have about 250 people that actually registered, and 350 people who are actually on the waiting list trying to get just into the computer program.
They have different programs like weightlifting, basketball, literacy, and all that kind of stuff, right?
As a matter of fact, Isaac Hayes is even involved with the program.
And Tony Brown, with his cybersecurity club, even utilized it for training some of his cyber cadets.
They had a graduation on Saturday, and he'll be there again this Saturday to more or less see what, like, you know, be at the program.
But what they're actually doing is just bringing in as many people as they possibly can.
Emphasis is placed on the computers, because seeing that this is a way to really get into the future, like, I mean,
on Saturdays, for example, for about four hours, they offer nothing but what you call lab time.
And so many people are coming there that you have, like, two or three people actually sitting at one computer.
They're about a dozen computers altogether because of the unlimited funding.
You know, Julianne more or less extended the funding for the program, even though some have been eliminated.
I think right now they dunked about 36.
And everybody realized, well, hey, like, the computer's where we got to go.
And on Saturdays, you go over to Beacon, and, like, you have, like, at least 50 people waiting to utilize these 12 computers,
even though, like, you have three people sitting on these computers, man.
I mean, like, what I really want to know is, are we heading in the right direction or what?
Well, it's kind of hard to say without knowing more about the program, but it sounds like there's enthusiasm.
Okay, listen, can I give you a telephone number to call, and maybe you could get in contact with the director of the program?
All right, give the number up, but we've got to move on.
So make it fast.
718-493-6674.
And the person that you want to speak to is Curtis Nelson.
Man, I tell you, these people have, like, about 7,000 people who are actually involved in the program right now.
And at least 1,000 of them are just DFO computers.
Okay.
Well, thanks for giving us a call.
We just want to move on to one more phone call.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
I'm the one that started the thread on the Beyond Hope mailing list about Pentagon City 2.
Pentagon City 2.
Make this really fast.
Okay.
We never got your opinions on it.
What do you think?
I don't know what you're talking about, so I can't really tell you what my opinion is.
I ask what might happen if somebody at Beyond Hope 2 would, for example, break the law for examples of...
Oh, boy.
Well, we only have 20 seconds left.
This is kind of a hot topic to bring up.
But let's...
Why don't you try giving us a call next week?
We can talk about this more.
And we can also bring this up in the mailing list.
Anybody who wants to join the mailing list, connect to the website, and we can carry on that discussion there.
But we do think of all possible contingencies at these conferences of ours, and that certainly will be brought up.
All right.
Thanks, everyone, for calling in.
We're out of time.
I wish we could have dealt with these subjects a little bit more, but there's always next week.
Stay tuned for Housing Notebooks.
Emanuel Goldstein for Fiber Optic.
Have a good night.
We'll see you next week.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
Couldn't get much worse, but if I could, they would.
I'm really born for the best to stay for us.
I hope that time is good.
But let me know.
Go!
Thank you.
And you are listening to listener sponsor WBAI FM in New York City, where the time is now nine o'clock.
This is WBAI. Stay tuned now for Housing Notebook.
Thank you.