militant spirit in the community to confront police and other forms of abuse for more
information please call 212-330-8277 that's 212-330-8277 this has been an announcement on behalf
of world view
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off the wall i cut myself while shaving
now i can't make a cough it couldn't get much worse but if they could they would
i hope that's understood
and that is the sound of our cd player
not working it's not something it's amazing how things don't work around here
let me see if i can figure this one out on the air
now this there's nothing there nothing at all i see it moving it's uh it's it's playing but it's
just not there well let's imagine there's music let's imagine that uh fiber is here
i'll be fiber you want to be fiber okay rebel is now fiber optic from from this point on
how are you today fiber all right yeah interesting things i uh you are fiber optic now yeah okay
i just noticed in the dvd i like this i like the way this is working out this is kind of cool too
yeah i had some dvd questions i've been doing research i think fiber will like it too yeah if
even when he finally gets here okay fiber what's up this dvd rom thing i know that i've been doing
research on dvds and i'm getting very excited about dvds because i want to get a dvd and i want to know
dvds can play dvds and cds correct
well you're the expert fiber yeah fiber you're the expert
rebel is now here hello rebel how are you
go ahead speak up rebel he is now fiber you are now rebel hi eric how are you how you doing
okay so now what's up let's see
i was in chemical bank did you know you can make free phone calls in chemical bank
it's the 9x payment center that you can still make free phone calls and guess what
that may not work anymore anyway i have a dvd question
okay here's a dvd question i'm stepping out for a while so you two guys just go at it okay
all right if you if any of you know the answer to the following questions please call but don't
call it now don't call it now because as you know 9x cuts you off i have a question can dvd
players not dvd roms but dvd players they could play dvds and audio cds right
audio cd is such a fact i got the cd player to work
with
coaghts yes
Thank you.
You're listening to Off the Hook, and can you hear me?
Can you hear me now?
Sure.
Okay, I don't understand this.
Is it just me, or do I sound bad?
You sound like you're on a phone.
But I'm not on a phone.
I'm standing right in front of you.
You see me, right?
Right.
So how could I be on a phone?
I don't know, but you don't sound good.
I don't feel good.
All right, well, let's pretend that everything's okay, and we're just going to do the show
as normal.
So, Fiber.
Yes.
No, you're a rebel.
Oh, I'm rebel.
You're a rebel from this point on.
Okay.
What's up with you?
All right.
I'd like to...
Is your name rebel?
Yeah.
Now I'm concerned.
No, you're not.
No, go ahead.
So, am I just going to be referred to as rebel?
I guess from this point on.
Do I have to act like rebel also?
Well, you see, Fiber is the one that sits in the chair that Fiber is now sitting in.
Oh, that's right.
As you can tell.
Okay.
Yes.
So, what's new with you this week, rebel?
Well, if I was Fiber, I'd have some new Omnipoint news.
Yeah.
And it just so happens that about a week or so ago, Omnipoint began offering their voice
dialing service, voice-activated dialing.
And they've actually been testing it for some time.
And it's free to all Omnipoint customers.
So, if you are an Omnipoint customer, you can dial star 44, and you will get the voice
dialing menu, which prompts you to configure your voice dialing.
Is this similar to the 9X voice dialing?
No.
Well, the problem is you have to dial something to get to voice dialing.
So, right now, I mean, the only really good part about it is to function as kind of like
a glorified memory dialer.
So, you don't have to remember somebody's number.
You can dial star 44 and speak their name.
You can say, dial Emanuel, and it would dial you.
But it's not like 9X is full-fledged voice-activated dialing because you can't just pick up the phone
and speak because there's no mechanism in the handset itself, in a GSM handset, that will
decode your voice.
It's actually, in Omnipoint's case, it's actually a feature of the voicemail system.
And star 44 they just made as a speed dial code.
So, I played around with it a bit, and the voice recognition was good.
It was really good.
Has the Omnipoint services been improving as far as coverage area?
I was trying to reach you all the way up here to the station, and not once was I able to
get through.
Well, that would probably be because I was hitting the no button.
You were hitting the no button?
Yeah.
I see.
Because I had a feeling that I knew who was calling and why they were calling.
And I could only have bad news because of where I was.
You're lucky I'm on the phone right now.
That's all I have to say.
Because if I was here, there'd be trouble.
Trouble of a very bad sort.
Anyway, so, anything else new this week?
Well, Kevin Mitnick got sentenced.
I believe he got sentenced yesterday.
He was supposed to.
It was kind of a weird thing.
And they had a sentencing, a pre-sentencing that took place last week to say what he
was going to be sentenced with this week.
And then he was supposed to have been sentenced yesterday.
However, I haven't been able to verify that at all.
But supposedly he would be sentenced to just about the amount of time that he has been put
in prison for, which is over two years.
And then, of course, he'll be facing trial on the charges he was indicted with last year.
And those are all the crazy things that nobody can really prove as far as multi-million dollar
stealing of software and copying files and things like that.
So, the story still has a very long way to go.
Well, if he was, now, if he was, if he got sentenced to two years and he already served
two years, wouldn't he get time served?
Wouldn't, wouldn't he just be able to go home at that point pending the further charges?
Well, yes.
Oh, that's better.
Uh, yes, that is true.
Except for the fact that they still don't want to give him bail for these other charges.
So, they're going to hold him longer.
They want to hold him for the rest of his life.
Wow.
So, I think they really want to find out how long they can hold someone without actually
charging them with anything.
Well, I mean, they, technically, they've indicted him.
So, well, it's just, it's a question of, of getting a trial, getting a jury to say whether
or not this is, the thing is, you know, I don't know if that's going to happen.
I don't know if a jury is going to sit there and say, you know, this is unreasonable.
Well, these days, I don't know what juries will say because they've been fed with such
propaganda.
Um, people may very well say that Kevin Mitnick is somebody that deserves to be in prison for
the rest of their lives.
You know, these days, that might be believable.
I mean, I'd like to know what other people think about that.
Um, he's been in prison since February of 1995.
That's a long time for somebody who didn't steal anything, didn't, uh, hurt anybody, just basically
played around with computers and phones.
It's a very long time and no end in sight.
So, uh, that's, that's the story as far as that goes.
Meanwhile, uh, an update on that, uh, that Delaware hacker story that we talked about last
week.
Um, a teenager allegedly from Delaware left cyber graffiti on a NASA web site.
According to this newspaper, he committed a crime much more serious than spraying a message
on a wall.
He cost the space agency thousands of dollars and set himself up for hefty fines and jail
time.
Uh, federal officials said on Tuesday, actually, this was last Tuesday, uh, that the teen whom
they would not identify hacked his way onto a secure informational website several times,
stealing files, decoding passwords, and altering a web message with a cryptic message that
quoted Sir Walter Scott, oh, a famous hacker, oh, what a tangled web we weave when we practice
to deceive.
This page is here to express many people's feelings towards the release of Kevin Mitnick.
Many of you government system administrators are extremely stupid.
You guys have to learn security before you can punish people for it.
What the hell do you know about it?
We feel all knowledge should be free.
Uh, the message provides a window into the shadowy world of computer hackers and crackers.
The incident also highlights the damage that high-tech criminals can cause.
Hackers started off as a word with adventurous and positive connotations.
If someone calls himself a hacker, he's basically calling himself a gun-slinging programmer, said
Richard E. Gordon, who used to counsel University of Delaware students who got into trouble for
improper computer use, if someone calls himself a cracker, it's more malicious.
I still don't know anybody who calls himself a cracker.
It's kind of a silly word.
I know people that have been called crackers.
I know plenty of people who have been called all kinds of things, but, uh, I don't know
people who have done that.
Uh, NASA called the Delaware teens' alleged high-tech break-ins a cracking spree.
So, there you go.
They're calling him a cracker right there.
Now, get this part.
The agency paid tens of thousands of dollars to repair the web page.
Now, how do you do that?
How do you pay tens of, I mean, yeah, I know it's NASA.
I know they pay $100,000 for a toilet seat or whatever, but come on.
How do you pay tens of thousands of dollars to repair a web page?
For God's sake.
I mean, they already had designed their web page.
It was already there someplace.
Did they not keep any backups whatsoever?
All they had to do was close the security hole, right?
I mean, tell me, where's tens of thousands of dollars come from?
That's what this person is facing jail because of, because he caused tens of thousands of dollars.
He simply changed the message on a machine, but somehow he caused tens of thousands of dollars
of damage.
It's a Kevin Mitnick mentality again.
I think the $10,000 number justifies calling in the authorities.
It doesn't really necessarily mean that the person really caused $10,000 worth of damage.
If he caused $5 worth of damage, then the federal authorities would never have gotten involved.
If I could just jump in, yeah, I'd say it's a lot of this paranoia that takes place as a
result of, I guess, believing whatever the authorities are saying.
The authorities say this is worth a million dollars, and we just simply sit there and say,
yeah, it's worth a million dollars because you say it is.
You know, it's like the Craig Nidoff case.
Remember when they tried to value that 911 document at something like $80,000?
They included the computers they used to type the document, the secretary they hired to
type it, all kinds of things like that.
And people just believed it when in actuality the document was only worth about $14.
Well, I want to play devil's advocate for a moment.
I'd have to totally agree.
About playing devil's advocate?
No, what that caller said.
What caller?
The caller that just said that.
Oh, yeah, I agree with the caller.
Thank you, caller.
I just want to play devil's advocate for a moment with people running around breaking
into websites and making some, like, socio-political statement about Kevin Mitnick or whoever.
Hello?
Hi.
Yeah, the phones are all kind of messed up, so don't...
Yeah, go ahead.
Okay.
Yeah, so like I was saying, I want to play devil's advocate and say that...
Who is this we?
Who's the we?
People explain there.
They justify doing what it is they're doing because we feel.
We this.
We that.
Who's the we?
Well...
Who are we?
The we isn't me.
I can tell you that right now.
It's not me either.
I don't know who these people are representing.
It's not me either.
I mean, I can...
It doesn't seem to be any of us.
I can relate more to Kevin Mitnick's particular predicament than I think most people that are
going around screaming we, and I'm not going around breaking into websites and putting
up messages on them.
Right.
But not that I...
See, I'm devil's advocate with a limit.
I don't think that these people should be punished for what they're doing.
Mm-hmm.
I just think that if they're going to go to the trouble to make some kind of political
statement, they should choose better words other than explaining that it's we.
We're doing this for we.
Well, I mean, I don't think there really is that much of a we there that...
I don't see it myself.
No.
I mean, where do you see it?
Well, you said we this, we believe that Kevin shouldn't be locked up.
We...
It's always we.
Well, I mean, we meaning the people that did that.
It doesn't necessarily mean they're speaking for all the hackers in the world or anything.
But that's how they come off sounding.
And that's how the media reads it.
Uh-huh.
They read it as we, we the hackers feel.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, don't you think there's more strength, though, in some sort of a, you know,
something in numbers rather than a bunch of people just doing this wantonly without any
kind of connection whatsoever?
Well, yeah, but, um...
I don't know.
I think they'd be looked upon as just as much of a threat if they were saying I instead of
we.
I don't really think that's the issue.
I don't think it's...
Oh, they could say the three of us.
That might give away a little too much.
But, um...
But the we part is just a little...
I don't know.
It seems a little bit misleading.
They're seeking recognition from peers, said Ken Weaverling, manager of computer services
at Delaware Technical and Community Colleges, Scranton-slash-Willington campus.
They all want to be elite.
And, uh, to some hackers, people who have been arrested for cyber crimes have become virtual
folk heroes.
Mitnick, the notorious hacker mentioned in the Delaware teens' message, was indicted
last year on charges stemming, here we go again, from a multi-million dollar crime
wave in cyberspace.
You know, every time...
We mentioned that last week, right?
We mentioned that last week, and sure enough, sure enough, that's exactly what they are saying,
because it appeared in the Associated Press they have made it fact that he engaged in a
multi-million dollar crime wave, where in actuality he's been indicted for things that,
uh, in no way can you say this is multi-million dollar, you know, copying a file.
It just isn't, you know, but as long as, as long as they can say this in the Associated
Press, people will start believing it.
So, so he kind of went on a cyber crime spree.
That's what they, that's what they're saying.
The 2600 magazine website includes a detailed update on Mitnick.
It also shows a reproduction of the NASA site altered in March, uh, which includes a poem,
which I'm not going to read here because it, the facts sort of cut off.
So, I don't remember what it is myself.
But, uh, for the most part, it seems like bored teenagers sitting in a basement somewhere,
said Chris Patterson, systems administrator for an internet service provider called Delanet.
Isn't that a good name for a provider in Delaware?
Delanet.
Uh, Patterson said hackers try to break into a system about once a week, but have never
caused damage.
What's, uh, worked for us is just keeping track of what the hackers are doing.
So, I, I don't know, I think that's, that's kind of, that's kind of the same thing.
Well, I don't, I don't have a problem with that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I mean, you know, within limits, within reason.
I mean, um, I'm, I'm the administrator of a number of systems, and if somebody, if somebody
popped on that I didn't invite, I'd, I'd probably more than likely boot them off.
Right.
If it happened in the first place.
And you wouldn't call the feds?
No, no, not at all.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well, uh, I suppose we could, uh, open up the phone lines at 212-279-3400.
You know, um, I wanted to talk also about the, uh, our little DSS adventure, because we
talked about that a few weeks ago, where we were, you know, experimenting with DSS.
And I finally got the thing hooked up, and I was playing around with it, and in fact, you
were playing around with it, too.
Sure.
Um, it's an interesting, interesting service.
But, you know, I bought this magazine, if you could give that back to me.
It's called Orbit.
Yeah, Orbit.
Now, I thought Orbit would take care of DSS, but you know what?
Instead, instead, the people who put out Orbit, which is a complete national TV programming
guide, they really looked down upon DSS, you know?
Now, the reason is, I guess because their dishes are too small or something like that,
they're not like real big manly dishes.
Yeah.
And these are the ones that, um, you know, that I guess the people out in, in, in Kansas
have, where they basically get everything under the sun.
They're going around, I mean, right now, okay?
Nothing, as far as I'm concerned, nothing has turned me off more to TV than having access
to 300 TV channels, okay?
I have not even turned it on in weeks, all right?
It makes me sick.
It makes me ill.
It's not like you're getting, you know, a bunch of, like, BAI-type things or alternative
thoughts or anything like that.
You're getting more of the same, you know?
It's always, it's always geared towards the same middle-class American family-type value
system thing, you know?
That's always what you get, whether it's shop at home, whether it's, um, you know,
it's a, a movie channel, whether it's a music channel or a sports channel, it's always geared
towards those same values, you know?
So, I'm looking for something different, you know, all kinds of different values and controversial
things and international stuff.
It's not there.
I mean, there's some stuff, but it's very, very, very hard to find.
So, right now, do you know how many HBOs I get?
Um...
This is ridiculous.
At least half a dozen, right?
That's, oh, boy.
There's, uh, HBO 1, 2, 3, and then 1 West, 2 West, so that's 5 right there.
Then they have this HBO family nonsense, which they just started, and they have the West
feed of that as well.
So, what's that, 7?
That's 7.
7 HBOs.
Now, the people of Orbit Magazine are going crazy saying, DSS people only get 7 HBOs.
We get 9!
Whoa!
They get HBO Mountain!
You know?
So, oh, great, the mountain feed of HBO, what am I missing?
You know?
And, and it just goes on.
These people are insane.
They're out of their minds.
Of course, they're probably going to listen to the show on real audio and, and, and be
very angry at us, but come on, people.
I mean, how much of this crap can you take?
It's the same stuff over and over again, just over, you know, saturating the market.
I, I want to go back to a regular TV set that just gets, like, channel 2 through 13.
Yeah.
I think those are the good old days.
I mean, you know, you have a little bit of variety, you have some, who needs two comedy
central channels?
Who needs two discovery channels, two Disney channels, two of everything, they're the same
thing, the exact same thing, two lifetimes, two M, two MTVs.
I don't know.
I don't know.
So, uh, yeah, it's, it's been an interesting experience.
Uh, we haven't figured out how to crack the system yet.
They, they do use smart cards.
They use smart cards.
But, um, supposedly there are smart cards around there that will, that will do things
to your system to allow you to get everything.
Well, I, I would be willing to bet.
Yes.
Oh, I think, I'm assuming the purpose of that is that you could go to a friend's house and
bring your smart card and he would have your subscription.
Mm-hmm.
So you could bring around your subscription to the channels you pay for or on the smart
card.
You could bring it.
That's what I think.
I think you can, it's sort of like your phone.
You can take, you can take your, your DSS with you wherever you go.
That's your telephone, that's sorry, that's your, that's your TV watching personality is
on that smart card.
Mm-hmm.
I'm assuming they probably save all your, all your menus, how you have them configured
for what channels you want to scan if you, if you set it up that way.
Yeah, you see, there's all these things you can set up.
You can set up your favorites and the order you want to go in and how it's listed, if it's
alphabetical or not.
Uh, there's all kinds of weird things too.
There's like the, uh, the CRTC, the, the, um, the, the, the rural, uh, telecommunications
collective or something.
Yeah.
It's like, um, something for farmers to have access to cable TV or to, uh, satellites.
If it was a private network, if you click on that channel, it says private, private, private
use only.
You may not watch this.
Wow.
And yeah, you, you, you know, you have to be careful what you, what you tune to.
Uh, there's all these sports networks that I'd never even heard of before.
You know, there's, there's all these different things, sports channel, Cincinnati, sports
channel, Ohio, you know, and, and all kinds of bizarre things.
But the funny thing is, and they don't tell you this when you get it, not that I care,
but when an actual game comes on, they black that out because that you have to pay for.
You have to subscribe to those.
Yeah.
So you get all the, you know, the things that they put on at two in the morning, you know,
like, you know, women's bowling from Kansas city or something like that.
You'll get that, but you also get that in all the other channels as well, because they
all air the same programming at that point.
So it's, it's kind of misleading as far as that goes.
If you're into that kind of thing, which, uh, I can't say that I am.
It's, um, it's interesting, but it's just kind of weird that even if you get 300 channels,
you still look down upon by the people who can get 500.
You know, it's not having enough choice.
It's not choice.
It's the same thing.
Just oversaturated.
I'd like to see some real, uh, real changes there.
What's the deal with the golf channel?
What is that?
Everyone gets that now.
That's even on cable TV.
Yeah.
Well, we didn't, we haven't gotten Manhattan yet.
You know, I, I, I like to be getting it.
Yeah.
You're going to get it whether you want it or not.
No.
I like to hold my breath, you know, and wait for them to say golf and see if I can pass out.
But I never do.
You know, they always, they always get to that word at some point in the sentence.
What's, what's the deal with that?
I mean, well, how come there's not like a high ally channel or a squash channel?
Give it time.
Why is, look, why isn't there a Pacifica channel on TV?
Why isn't there something like that?
You know, why isn't there all kinds of, of, of, of different things?
You know, all the, all the, um, all the news comes from the same basic perspective.
There should be a rebel channel.
There should be an off the hook channel.
Uh, no, let's not make an off the hook channel.
What?
I understand.
All right, so anyway, 212-279-3400, we have to give our callers a chance.
Fiber, why don't you be quiet because you've already talked.
Rebel, Rebel, um, any, any other, any other remarks?
I just want to.
No, you're not Rebel, you're Fiber.
And, and Fiber was late today, so Fiber may not speak.
Now, Rebel, what about you?
Oh, uh, I, I, I agree we should take some callers.
Okay, let's do that then.
Good idea.
212-279-3400.
Good, good evening.
You're on the air.
Why is it?
Why is it people always have to, like, just sort of sit there and be all puzzled and perplexed
and things like that?
Why is that?
I think they're frightening.
I think they're just, oh, they're a little, a little confused there.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
Lane, you're on the air.
All right.
Yeah, this is Ariel.
And what were you saying, what you were saying before about people hacking and $10,000 worth
of damage?
It's just, they're trying to scare people away from doing it.
Trying to make them think that all this damage is caused.
I'm sure they had copies of everything, like you said.
Right.
Of course, yeah, it's a way of making people fear the government, I guess, and the corporations
that they might hack into, because they'll be charged with 10, I mean, if you hack into
an individual's page, they're not going to charge you with $10,000 worth of damage of
any sort.
Yeah.
I have a domain with an ISP right now, and they give access to all their webpages, and
I upload, like, my homepage accidentally to their homepage.
They didn't care.
They just said, oh, we'll do it next time.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, it's a trivial thing, and obviously these people really don't know what they're doing.
You know, that's how they got hacked in the first place.
So, you know, I see web hacks as something pretty inconsequential.
I mean, it's a great way to get a message out, and it's sort of a political statement
right there, which I guess are the most, you know, the most damaging to organizations
like that.
So, you don't think this person should be held accountable for $10,000 worth of damage,
I take it?
Okay, well, I guess your silence indicates that, no, you cannot wish that.
Let's go on to the next call, 212-279-3400.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Next call, 212-279-3400.
Oh, boy, don't I sound good through that radio there?
Yes, I do.
Hello, can I do?
Yes, go ahead.
Did you get a package sometime ago about MetroCard?
Did I get a package about MetroCard?
Oh, you know what?
I did get a package, yes.
I got a package.
The man gave it to me, and I gave him a nice tip, and he said there would be more coming.
Is that right?
Yes, there was.
Good, good, good.
Okay, that's nice to know.
Yes, MetroCard.
You know, I had a MetroCard adventure the other day, okay?
I'm glad you reminded me.
I jumped the turnstile.
Yes, I did.
That's right.
Me, Emmanuel Goldstein, jumped the turnstile.
And I did it right at 34th and A Street on the ACE line going uptown.
And the reason I did was because I had to meet somebody uptown.
And I had to meet them.
You know, it was like, they're going to be there in five minutes.
And this was, the train was there at that point in time.
I had my MetroCard.
I swiped my MetroCard.
It said, swipe again.
So I swiped again.
It said, swipe again.
And I swiped one more time.
And it said, too fast.
Swipe again.
So I went to the other turnstile.
And I went through this little dance like three more times.
And finally, I said, well, gosh darn it all with this.
Let's not even deal with this anymore.
And I just jumped over the turnstile.
Now, of course, right there is where the train is.
This is like the only turnstile in Manhattan where you jump the turnstile and the motorman
is there watching you do it.
And he yelled at me saying, you shouldn't do that.
And I said, well, you know, it would be good if you guys made cards that worked.
And I wouldn't have to do this.
But if you want my card here, take my card.
I don't need it.
You think I'm going to jump a turnstile with a card in my hand?
It's kind of, you know, silly to do that in the first place.
And, well, he wasn't convinced.
But that was my MetroCard thing.
I tried it again today.
The same card took seven tries to work.
So these things are not exactly cutting-edge technology.
You said you were trying to erase them and they wouldn't erase.
Yeah, well, it seems to have worked now.
I don't know what I did.
I just put them in my pocket.
I guess maybe you're not supposed to do that.
Well, I was reading some literature from one of the manufacturers of banking equipment.
And they said that they use, in their magnetic equipment, it's not really magnetic.
They use radioactive elements to put the encoding on the card.
So that may be one of the reasons why it wouldn't erase.
It's not magnetic.
It's radioactive imprinting material that they put on there.
Under the magnetic strike.
Well, maybe I got radiated or something.
I don't know.
But were you able to understand those schematics yourself?
Somewhat.
I had reason to use them at some point.
There's about three or four different versions that they come in.
And basically it's a matter of what jumpers are connected, depending on what piece of equipment it would go in.
So if you're able to decipher any of them, let us know.
I sent you an email also, by the way.
You didn't respond to it.
Probably because I've been deluged over the past few weeks with getting the summer issue out and working on Beyond Hope.
But you will get a reply by fall, I promise.
But, yeah, we'll be doing stuff with this at Beyond Hope, and we'll be talking about it at length and experimenting with all sorts of things like that.
All right, Emmanuel.
All right.
Thanks for sending it in, and keep us in mind.
Take care.
All right.
Take care.
If you have any interesting documents that you want to send to us, our address here is off-the-hook care of WBAI Radio.
That's 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
Or if you want to send something to 2600 Magazine, our address out there is 2600 P.O. Box 99, Middle Island, New York, 11953.
And, yes, we need volunteers for Beyond Hope, you know, the Hacker Conference, which will be taking place August 8th, 9th, and 10th, downtown Manhattan, Puck Building.
We'll be broadcasting live August 9th, which is Saturday, from 6 to 8 p.m., special two-hour show live from the Puck Building.
That's going to be kind of neat, all kinds of surprises that will be happening then.
And if you're interested in volunteering, stay tuned, because we'll give information on what you can do to help out.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes.
Yes, hello.
Yes, how are you doing?
Hey, who's this?
This is the person that's hanging up on you, because you don't know who you're talking to.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Oh, hello.
Yes, go ahead.
Hi.
I just wanted to say, first of all, that I really enjoy your show.
Thank you.
Every week.
Thank you very much.
No problem.
I had a kind of a problem, a computer-related problem.
We're here for you.
Thank you.
Thanks for feeling my pain.
No problem.
However, it was a little confidential, and I didn't really feel comfortable talking about it on the air,
and I was wondering if there was any way I might be able to take advantage of your wisdom.
Just get to the problem.
I can't really do it on the air.
That's the thing.
But I would feel, I would really appreciate it if I could speak, and I was wondering if there's somewhere I could reach you not on the air.
Does it burn when you pee?
It's not quite that bad, but, I mean, not quite that private, but still, it's not, you know.
What kind of problem are we talking about here?
Well, nothing as serious as these.
Do this.
Come to the 2600 meeting July 4th.
That's right.
July 4th, Independence Day, where we celebrate the independence of hackers everywhere.
And that will be at the usual place, Citicorp Center, which is at 53rd and Lexington Avenue.
And if you have any problems, come there.
And when is that?
I just said when it was.
July 4th.
Oh, it's on?
Well, you said it was.
Okay, it was on July 4th.
Yes, July 4th from 5 to 8 p.m.
Okay.
It's going to take place on that day as scheduled.
Citicorp building's closed.
Yes.
It is not closed.
It is July 4th.
It is not.
It's a bank.
It's not closed.
How do you know?
Gag him.
All right.
212-279-3400.
Have you shackled?
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Gag him.
Um, come on, people.
All right, look.
The thing is, the thing is, this is how it works.
When you call into the radio show, you have to stay on the phone.
You can't go away from the phone and listen to the radio.
It doesn't work that way.
Listen to the rings.
It means you're in line and we'll get to you.
You can have the radio on in the background, but you've got to stay on the phone, so when
you hear my voice say, hello, you're on the air, you know that I'm talking to you because
it's coming into your ear through the phone.
I have to explain it every now and then, I guess.
I don't know why.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
You see, it was too long.
Too long.
They almost made it.
They almost made it.
It's close.
You know, they're about halfway there.
But this is what, you know, let's pretend you're a caller.
Okay.
Hello, you're on the air.
Hello, Emmanuel.
See?
That's nice and quick.
Rebel, why don't you run into the other room and make a phone call to us?
Because you always...
No, you can't use that phone.
That phone doesn't work anymore.
You always are good at getting through.
And you always know to speak when spoken to.
Down the hall, through the gate, and past the man with the gun, is the phone that you can use.
Okay, now lock the door, please.
All right.
Okay, Rebel's gone.
212-279-3400.
That was the real Rebel.
The real Rebel, he's gone.
Okay.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, Emmanuel.
How are you?
Fast enough.
Okay, yeah, that's all right.
I'll let it go.
Go ahead.
Okay, listen.
Regarding the amount on that $10,000 document...
Well, it's not a $10,000 document.
It's a web page.
Well, $10,000 web page, I mean, when they print this thing, do they print it on, like, gold leaf paper or something?
They don't print it at all.
It's totally on...
Rebel, why are you back?
Because the phones are busy.
Do they gag Rebel yet?
No.
Not yet?
Try the pay phone downstairs, then.
All right.
Anyway, so what is your question?
Okay, I'm just wondering, like, if everybody is supposed to...
Fear the government because they put all these big fines on, like, these web pages and stuff like that.
I mean, all of this stuff is on the Internet.
I mean, you've got to expect people to go in there.
They don't want people on their web pages.
Why don't they just take them off the net?
That's a good solution as far as I'm concerned.
If you don't want the risk of people, you know, figuring out security holes, you shouldn't be there in the first place.
You should not be in a position where somebody can cause you $10,000 worth of damage anyway on the net.
Because the net is still something that is growing and developing in front of us.
And it's possible that some sort of programming code could totally wipe out whatever it is that is on your page anyway.
Yeah, that's true.
There's all kinds of things happening.
Yeah, I can understand that.
But, I mean, if all of these people are so concerned about, oh, my web page is going to get broken into or this or that,
you know, people should take a better look at what the government is doing instead of what hackers are doing
because the government has much more to hide than we do.
Well, that's why they respond by saying we caused $10,000 worth of damage.
Yeah, I'm not saying people should go around and cause vandalism and do things like that.
But keep in mind the net is something new.
The net is something people are exploring, tweaking, playing around with, and occasionally breaking in various ways.
We broke the net last year, remember, with the Sin Flooding article.
Oh, yeah.
I got mail from people saying, you've broken the whole thing.
You've broken the net.
You've ruined the Internet.
You know, I've got all kinds of people sending all kinds of horrible things.
It'll never be the same.
And, you know, we seem to still be around, right?
Yeah, I mean, if you look at it, really, if people want to run the net responsibly,
they should just let it run the way it's running because a lot of hackers aren't there, aren't malicious.
And the stuff that happened to you, Fiber, and to Bernie S, and now the crap that's happening with Mitnick,
I don't think it was really necessary.
No, definitely not.
I really don't.
I'm sure Fiber agrees with you there.
Oh, yeah, I agree with 100%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I missed the last couple of meetings, but are you guys going to be at the next one, or are you out somewhere?
I should be there.
I should be if the City Corp building is closed.
I'll be outside.
Okay, you'll be outside.
I hear there's fireworks this year, right?
Not at City Corp, but I hear there's fireworks in New York City.
Isn't there every year?
Well, I don't know.
I haven't been in the city in a while, but...
Yeah, there is every year.
Every year, okay.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, in fact, if you look at Harper's, they have a statistic.
They say that, I think, in 1976 or something, when they had the bicentennial...
Right.
...something on the order of four fireworks per second going off during the fireworks display.
Hmm.
This year, it will be eight per second.
Wow.
So, yes, it's even better.
Even better than that.
And they crammed, you know, like six million people into all of downtown, and it's going to be something like 20 million now.
Yeah.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Great.
Yes, isn't it?
It's amazing.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Thank you.
I can't believe it's the first time in about a year I've gotten through.
I have two questions.
For the real-time audio, I mean, I know very, very little about it, and someone is doing me a favor right now in broadcasting my show for me.
What's involved?
What's the sort of investment and what's involved in broadcasting yourself?
Are you talking about broadcasting live or archiving a show?
Are you talking about broadcasting live or archiving a show?
Actually, live more than both in the end, but live is more interesting.
Live takes more than simply archiving.
What we're doing with Off the Hook, we've gotten all the shows onto real audio format.
And by the way, I finished that project this week.
It's taken six months of my life just to simply, every day, listening to at least two or three or four shows and writing down what was on them all.
And sometimes, you know, when you're driving in your car, listening and writing things down at the same time, it's kind of dangerous.
But everywhere, you know, at home and at the office, other people's houses, always listening to, you know, editions of Off the Hook.
I've lost a lot of friends.
And it's over, you know.
I've got them all down.
They're all, you know, being categorized now and put on the net so people can simply click on the website and listen to the show, any show they want.
It's not all there yet.
We're up to 1991.
I think 1992 will be up later this week.
That simply involves playing the show back into a real audio recorder, which is free off the net, and converting it there, which takes just a little while.
An hour-long show, fairly good sound quality, takes about seven megs of disk space.
Now, to do it live, Fiber, what do we need to do it live?
We need bandwidth.
To do it live, yeah, number one, you need bandwidth.
You need at least a decent T1 at the bare minimum.
And you also need to buy a real audio server.
And you pay by the number of simultaneous connections that you allow to listen to the show.
And it's...
It's not cheap.
It's not cheap, no.
So, you know, to get...
Give us an example.
To get, like, say, a hundred people listening.
Oh, jeez, a hundred.
You couldn't do that, could you?
With a T1, I don't think you'd be able to have the bandwidth to do that.
Yeah, you probably wouldn't have the bandwidth, but it would cost you thousands and thousands
of dollars to pay for...
Yeah, it's not cheap to do that.
That's why we're doing it this way, because we encourage people to copy the show, put it
on other sites, like, say, in Europe, and have people listen to it over there.
You know, it's seven megs, but that's not that much these days.
And once you copy it, you have it for all time, and you can listen to it any time you want.
You need a modem?
You need a modem to get the show in the first place, and you would need some sort of net
connection if you wanted to listen real time, obviously.
Right.
Okay, just another question is about this.
When you're referring to a smart card, what is that to you?
What are you referring to?
Because there's a lot of things.
It's a card with an IQ of at least 120, I think.
At least.
Yeah.
I'm sorry?
It's basically, it's a credit card-sized card.
It's a piece of plastic, the same size as a credit card, same thickness, and on that
card, it has a microchip.
And instead of having a card where all the information is stored on a completely stupid,
unintelligent magnetic strip, like a regular credit card, you have a little integrated circuit
mounted on your plastic credit card-sized doodad.
And they're being used now for all sorts of things.
It's a fairly new thing in the United States.
Who issues it for what purpose?
Right.
Who issues...
I mean, is it welfare issuing it?
Is it the FBI?
No, no, no, no, no.
You know, the license bureau?
No.
They're being used in new mobile phones.
They're being used, obviously, in DSS satellite systems.
They're being used in...
Actually, there's some new trials where they're being used on American Express and Visa and
MasterCard.
See, I like that idea because credit cards, for some reason, always deteriorate in my pocket.
See, I keep all my cards together, you know, next to each other.
And apparently they rub off and the magnetic strip gets all, you know, fouled up.
And, you know, you can never run the thing through the machine.
You always have to type the numbers in.
Would the smart card not have that problem?
Um, a smart card will eventually have that problem, but it'll last a heck of a lot longer
than the magnetic strip on your credit card will.
That's what I need.
I need something that'll last a heck of a lot longer.
It'll last a lot longer.
Thanks for the call.
Let's move on to another person who hopefully knows how to answer the phone.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello?
Yes.
Hey, how you doing?
Okay.
Wow.
You know, I really, really wish you guys would pick up and put us on hold because 9X really
doesn't let us ring for that long.
Well, you know, I don't know what to do.
I mean, the phone won't let us put people on hold easily.
Well, not only that, you have to get another guy to put us on hold.
We're going to hire people.
Yeah, it's a long, drawn-out thing.
All right.
No guarantee we'll even get to you.
I guess we'll pick at 9X because I really hate that new pay phone that don't let you die.
What if you want to pay somebody?
I don't understand the logic behind that.
What are these people thinking?
You know what the logic is?
What's the logic?
They say, this is the outward logic, but it obviously doesn't make sense.
They don't want drug dealers to be putting in touch tones.
Okay, now how about your businessman, right, who is like at a pay phone, a 9X pay phone,
makes a calling card call, and calls back to his voicemail system, has to enter the voicemail
number, has to enter his name, has to enter his password, has to listen to messages, and
then you get that annoying voice saying, no additional dialing allowed?
Yep.
I mean, a businessman is likely to turn into, you know, a raving lunatic as a result of
this.
Or a drug dealer.
No, but, you know, the thing is, the drug dealers, you would assume that most of them
are pretty able to afford a cellular phone anyway.
I think most of them are using cellular phones.
I don't think drug dealing is the problem here.
I think it's stupidity of 9X.
I don't know.
What are they thinking to cut off?
I mean, it's a pain already hearing that stupid, thank you for using 9X every time you
make a phone call, but that means that you're going to get cut off after a little while if
you try to use additional touch tones.
It's a reason for people to go out and buy touch tone dialers, but of course everyone's
going to think you're using a red box then.
This is true.
Have you been seeing the DVD movies?
I was quite impressed myself.
I haven't seen any.
You haven't?
But they are out there.
They don't have a DVD player.
You know, what I saw, what I thought I would think would be seen, horrible.
What kind of phone are you on anyway?
My cell phone, actually.
It's not GSM, I'm sorry, Fiber.
Oh.
Okay.
Yeah, call them Rebel this week.
Oh, well, look at that.
Someone almost, someone's really mad that I took their parking spot.
Okay, in any case.
Yeah, let's get into a fight on the air.
That'd be kind of cool.
Yeah, it's live.
In any case, what I was going to ask you was, wow, I almost got into an accident.
Okay, in any case.
Would you do that for us?
Would you go against a little fender bender so we can hear, you know, what it sounds like?
Oh, listen, the taxi driver let me go through this.
It's quite amazing.
In any case, the last thing I wanted to say was, well, with the DVDs, I thought it would
look like the MPEG-1 thing with the backgrounds that weren't moving.
It would really look staticky, but it didn't turn out to be that way.
So I'm impressed.
But anyway, you haven't seen it, so it doesn't matter.
The last thing I want to say was, DSS and Orbit.
Is Orbit Prime Star?
Is that what you're talking about?
Orbit?
See, I lose track of all this.
Or is that just a regular, like, well, huge dishes?
DSS is DirecTV and...
Like an 18-inch dish.
USSB.
Right.
Which provides some of the...
Programming.
Viacom channels as well.
Right.
Orbit, it's just a magazine for real dish people.
Right, those are, like, the huge dishes.
Yeah.
And then Prime Star, I think, is, like, in between, right?
Is that how it works out?
I think so.
I don't know.
To be honest, I got totally baffled by the whole thing.
Well, when HDTV comes out with HBO next year, who's going to be watching?
I'd like to...
I don't really know how that's going to work, either.
All right.
Well, thanks anyway.
All right.
Thanks for calling.
Bye-bye.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, hi.
I was under the impression that the way the cards of the subway worked was that the entire
data regarding your particular card number was essentially on a network, essentially,
and what was your card had was essentially an identification number for the card.
And so when you put your card in, essentially all the information related to your number
essentially is pulled up, and it's throughout the whole system.
Is that not correct, or...?
We believe now that it's actually writing to the card as well and updating you there.
Really?
Not just sending your number out and deducting something at some centralized point, but actually...
Because according to the documentation that we've gotten, those devices in the turnstiles
are reader-slash-writers, meaning that they are writing to the card at the same time.
I see.
So it's hard to understand how they're able to do it so fast, but apparently that is what
they are doing.
And we're trying to get more information.
If anyone out there has more information, we'd really like to see it.
Pay attention to the information that's also broadcast over the high-frequency radio wave
as well for subways.
For the buses.
For the buses, yes.
Yeah.
There is...
I haven't tracked down the actual frequency yet.
I don't know what happens if you tune into that frequency.
Wow.
But I do know that it is being transmitted, obviously.
Wow.
So there must be some encryption and stuff like that from actually getting the data.
Yeah.
I don't know what it is.
And you know there's the new MetroCards now, MetroCard Gold, they're allowing transfers
to buses up to four transfers in a two-hour period, I think.
Wow.
That also means, though, that you can only swipe your card four times in a row at a turnstile.
So if you're with five people, you know, or even four people, five total, somebody's going
to have to get another card because it'll say maximum amount of transfers when you try to
do it five times.
I see.
Yeah.
So I've been experimenting.
Okay.
All right.
Cool.
All right.
Great job.
So, of course, we'll have more details at Hope.
Beyond Hope, we'll be playing around with these things, and hopefully there'll be more answers.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Yes, go ahead.
Oh, I'm actually going to stay on the air this time, okay?
Oh, cool.
Let me just turn down my radio a minute.
All right.
Hold on.
As long as your radio isn't too far away, we will tolerate this.
It's so weird.
I'm hearing myself now.
One minute.
Yes.
It's not too far away.
Okay.
Well, we've already spent too much time talking about this.
Okay.
All right.
Are you back?
No.
Apparently, he's just leaving now.
Okay.
I guess these people have their radios on the other side of the house.
Hi, I'm back.
Okay.
You're back.
Yes.
I just wanted to tell you, I had a very strange payphone experience the other day.
Really?
Yes.
Would this be 9X or?
It was 9X.
Okay.
Sure enough.
Hold on.
Let me catch my breath from running to my radio.
Yeah.
All right.
All right.
So, anyway, I picked up the payphone, and I heard a beeping, like, b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b.
It was so weird.
Okay.
And then I-
Was this one of these silver phones?
No, it was-
A new silver phone?
It was the old kind.
The old kind.
Okay.
Yeah.
Just the normal ones.
All right.
This is on Long Island.
I haven't seen those yet.
Okay.
So, but what was this?
Well, it was just beeping?
It was beeping very fast.
Okay.
And it continued to do that for the next hour or so.
Rebel, do you have a real answer?
Yeah.
You do?
Okay.
Was the phone beeping while it was on the switch hook, or when you picked it up?
No, only when I picked it up.
Only when you picked it up.
And the keypad was cut off.
Okay.
So, it was beeping in your earpiece?
Yeah.
Okay.
Because I've noticed on 9X payphone that was beeping make like a ringing sound, like
a grrrr, like while the phone was on the hook.
I noticed that when you pick up the new payphones, you have to wait.
It goes, like it cuts off before the dial tone comes on.
How does it go again?
It goes, and then the dial tone comes on.
Really?
Okay.
Amazing.
I've heard that sound before.
Oh, really?
And sometimes when you hang up, you've got to like hang up a long time.
He was in the room that time, too.
So, no, never mind.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, that's interesting.
I don't know what it is.
I don't know what's causing it.
Could you use...
Well, it was a payphone in a school.
Could that have anything to do with it?
I don't see why that would have anything to do with it.
Could you specify what this beep sounded like?
I mean, why wasn't it an off-the-hook tone?
It was.
An off-the-hook tone, like at the beginning of our show?
You know what it sounded like?
It sounded like the beginning of your theme music.
Well, you know what that was?
It was a phone off the hook.
The phone's off the hook.
No, no, no, no, no.
The phone was on the hook.
Okay, wait a minute.
Okay, so the switch hook is broken.
The phone was on the hook, and you heard this sound.
You heard that sound.
It sounded like that, except faster.
Yeah, okay.
The speed doesn't really matter that much.
The tone, but faster.
All right.
And the phone was on the hook?
Yeah.
All right.
Well, what happens with 9X phones is sometimes the circuitry gets a little messed up.
The switch hook could have been broken.
Yeah.
You know where I could buy a pay phone?
I'm not really sure.
You know, they have all those yellow phones.
They must have done something with those.
Well, I heard that 9X is selling all their trucks next year, too.
They're selling all their trucks?
Yeah.
Where'd you hear this?
From my friend.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, then it must be true.
It must be true.
Well, you know, he's pretty special.
Uh-huh.
How is he special?
Because, uh, he wouldn't really know.
Okay.
Well, I guess I can't argue with that.
Because he asked someone who knew.
Okay.
Well, the thing is, I mean, it's quite likely that 9X will turn into Bell Atlantic next year.
Yeah.
I don't know if that's...
That's what I figured.
I don't know if that's a reason for them to sell their vans or simply repaint them.
Yeah.
Well, I always wanted to get a 9X truck.
Well, I mean, you still can because they have auctions a lot.
You just have to find out where the auctions are.
Okay.
So, uh, that's how we got our special phone company van.
Well, you've been very insightful.
I try.
I try.
Thank you very much for calling and for answering so quickly.
Um, let's see if the next person is as prompt.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
I try.
Hello?
Yes.
You could have been quicker, but we'll accept it.
I try to be quick.
All right.
Um, how you doing?
All right.
I'm doing just fine.
Um, I have...
It's the first time I've called your show.
I've listened to it for a long time.
Uh, and I've always enjoyed it.
And I actually listened to it before I actually had capability of actually doing anything with
my computer.
Uh-huh.
And now you have capability.
Well, at work I do.
Uh-huh.
I still have the old 286 in my room.
Ooh.
Yeah.
Wow.
It's good for word processing, though.
It's good for word processing.
It's good for connecting to the net and, uh, other such things.
Really?
Well, look, uh, you guys were talking about the smart card, and I had this revelation,
uh, about a year ago.
I was watching the local news here.
I can't remember which station.
And I threw, you know, my tape recorder on to tape the show, the segment.
Basically, it was talking about a cash card that was being demoed or beta tested or something
with people who lived in the Upper West Side.
And it was about a five-minute segment.
And they interviewed different people about it, and the majority of them were like,
oh, I got a credit card already, and I got this card, I got my check card, I've got...
And they seemed kind of down on the idea.
But then the story disappeared, and I didn't hear anything else about it.
Are you familiar with that story at all?
Uh, I've never heard that story myself.
Well, not specifically, but the trials for, uh, for the visa, I believe, are from, uh,
Chase Manhattan.
The, uh, trials are going to be starting uptown.
I think they may have already started.
Now, this is, uh, for your...
Now, your smart card you're talking about is just a credit card, though.
In that particular case, yeah.
A smart card can be used for all kinds of applications, though.
Yeah.
Right, but see, this was specifically with the intention of eventually, like, they started
out the, the whole segment with, like, you know, will cash become obsolete?
That kind of thing, you know.
And, you know, the new cash card that, you know, such and such, you know, a company is,
is betting on that, and then they talked about how, you know, well, in order to, to actually
buy things and sell things, you'd have to have this reader that would read the card.
Mm-hmm.
So, and so, um, then businesses might, you know, balk at that because they cost something
like $2,000 or whatever it was, and, uh, and I just thought it was really bizarre that
I didn't hear about this anywhere else, and, um, no one else seems to remember this broadcast.
I did tape it, and I have to find, I have a million tapes here, but I have to find that
segment.
Well, I do know that people up there listen to us, and if anybody is engaged in such a trial
or has been, please contact us, and we'll, uh, you know, we'll, we'll try and get
information that way, see what's, what it's all about, but I do know we're moving in that
direction where this is used for almost every transaction, and cash is discouraged.
I mean, have you ever paid with a $100 bill anywhere?
It becomes the most confrontational thing.
God forbid someone takes that little Mylar strip out of it, you know, it's, it's like fake
money then, you know?
Well, I don't know how they can, they can design something to, to protect it from, from forgery
when you can pull it out like that.
I know, that's, and that's instant fraud right there.
You just pull that thing out, and nobody's going to accept it, because they won't see
the little magic thing.
That's the only thing that tells them it's real.
So anybody who makes fake money, they just have to put a little strip in there, and voila,
you got real money.
I hate to say, sound conspiratorial, but it's quite possible that that horrible design,
that idea of putting the strip that's easily taken out, could be a way of getting people
to not trust money anymore, you know?
You just don't trust cash, and you want this card, and it's little bits of information,
and you can't argue with that, you know?
Right.
It's convenient, it's quick, and it's the law.
And it could be the only way in the future that you'll be able to purchase things, so
like, it would affect the black market in some way, I would assume, if you didn't have
one of these little readers, you know, to read the card.
And also, if they decide that you're a felon, or whatever it is that you can't, I don't know
what it is, but they could control your card, your access to actually buy things, if your
card is cancelled, or you lose it, or whatever.
That's true, that's true.
You know, I had a funny adventure with American Express this past couple of weeks, actually,
where I tried using it, and it just, like, suddenly wasn't working.
I thought maybe there was something wrong with the computer, so I tried using it again,
and it still didn't work.
They turned my card off.
So I called them, and I said, look, what's up with this?
Why did you turn my card off?
And they said, well, you paid us late, and you still owe us $30.
And I'm like, well, you know, I paid a whole lot more than $30 in my last check there.
That should account for something.
I said, sorry, sir, the computer says that you still owe money, so we can't credit your
account, and you have to send us another check before we can turn it back on.
So I was, like, very angry at them.
It turns out, though, that what actually happened, they didn't tell me this, but I discovered it
on my own.
There was a check that I had sent them that apparently they couldn't figure out that I sent it to them,
so they sent it back to me saying, we don't know why you sent us this check.
Here, take it back.
You didn't have your account number on it?
Well, I never write my account numbers on checks because I just, I love having adventures
like this so much.
But anyway, they sent it back to me saying, okay, you know, here's a check.
We don't want it.
Then they sent me a letter saying, where's the check?
And so then, by the time I got that letter, it was about two months after the check had gone
out in the first place, and the account was way overdue.
So then they said, okay, well, you can fix the whole thing by simply calling our computer
and saying that you sent the check, and, you know, that way your account will be credited
before we actually get the check.
So I said, great, no problem, I'll do that.
So I did that, and then my bank called me and said, you know, somebody just took out all
this money from your account electronically.
Was it you?
I said, no, I had nothing to do with that.
It turned out American Express used that little computer to withdraw the money two times.
A, they got the check, and B, they did an electronic withdrawal.
So now they have more money than I owe them.
They didn't tell you they were electronically transferring your cash?
Not only didn't they tell me, they told me they weren't doing that.
They said, most definitely we will not be doing that.
You have to authorize us specially.
So be careful with things like this.
Folks, we're out of time.
I guess we'll be back again next week.
Hopefully all of us will be here.
And we'll talk to you then.
Stay tuned for Housing Notebook.
This is Emanuel Goldstein.
Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bum, dilly, bum, but I best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum, dilly, bum, dilly, bum.
We'll be right back.
How do you turn the rough ride of a spring membership drive into a glittering highway of success?
And a word? Fulfillment.
Yes, that's right.
Please, when you get your bill from WBAI, don't be a stranger.
Please do everything you can to honor your pledge as soon as possible.
And we will find ourselves on the other end of this drive with a complete fulfillment ratio.
100% fulfillment.
What could be finer?
Please honor your pledges today.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.