your spirit out michael mead we'll be talking to you next week as well and thanks a lot for
coming on we are about out of time we are out of time so thanks jim bennett and uh
greg hyman we're out good night
hello my name is martha swan i'm here from the center for constitutional rights to ask you
to please join us on wednesday september 10 at 6 30 and 9 p.m for the special benefit screenings of
the keeper and the send-off to the national rally against police brutality proceeds from the
evening will help pay for the buses carrying new yorkers to the rally in washington dc on friday
september 12. after each screening director joe brewster and actor izak dibancoli of the keeper
will join ron daniels executive director of the center for constitutional rights and wbai's
bernard white for a discussion with the audience singer songwriter stephan smith will be there to
perform his new song the ballad of abner luena join us for the screening and send-off on wednesday
september 10 at the quad theater located at 13th street between 5th and 6th avenues for information
and to purchase tickets call 212-614-6448 that's 212-614-6448 thank you
and it's eight o'clock on a tuesday night time for another edition of off the hook
where all the switches are in the wrong position so that's uh probably why these things aren't
working let's try it now
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off
i cut myself while shaving now i can't make the cost
it couldn't get much worse
but if they could they would
but the best expect the worst
i hope that's understood
let's try it now
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
It is pretty happy.
I feel happy listening to this.
I don't know about you.
I don't really care.
I got my finger on the button.
I feel perplexed.
Well, yeah, you look perplexed.
But never mind.
This is Off the Hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein with you for the next hour.
And we've got a few things to update people on.
We'll be taking phone calls and having all kinds of fun.
Bernie S. will be joining us in a little while.
Now, Fiber, you've got some stories.
Actually, you've got most of the stories.
Give me one of those stories.
Some news items.
Because you took all the stories.
Here.
I'll give you the...
No, you take that one.
This one?
You take that one.
Give me that one.
This one?
No, I'll take this one.
All right.
Go ahead and start with that one over there.
The little one?
The orange one, yes.
The orange one?
The big orange one, yeah.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
They're both black and white.
You just don't know how to play along, do you?
Oh.
The big orange one.
Yeah.
Okay.
You mean the one about the new law proposed to regulate the scrambling of data?
That one?
Well, since you've already given it away, yeah.
Might as well go into that one.
Go ahead.
Written by...
You know who it was written by, right?
John Markoff, yeah.
Your friend and mine.
Yes, everyone's friend.
Yeah.
But he's writing to warn us of a threat to our very existence.
Yeah, he would be the one to deliver that message.
Well, despite that, we're going to heed it.
Yeah.
Or at least, you know.
Well, give us a brief synopsis, then I have a theory about what this means.
There's some proposed legislation to actually build in back doors to encryption systems,
the very encryption systems themselves, that no encryption system will be sanctioned for
use, and they don't...
They're not specifically saying whether it's even specific to the internet.
They're saying it includes the internet, but they're trying to come up with what looks
like some broad, all-encompassing thing that any algorithm that's used for privacy or
commerce or anything or otherwise needs some kind of cockamamie backdoor built into it
that won't necessarily need to be used, but needs to be there just in case it needs to
be used.
This is anything, any kind of encryption.
That's what it's...
That's what they're making it sound like.
Including the coded transmissions that we're sending with this broadcast.
Those two.
Wow.
Now, who is the they here?
The they is the Clinton administration.
The people that are backing it.
Those rascals.
Them again, huh?
Yeah.
They just won't give up, will they?
The people backing it is our buddy, Louis Freeh.
Ah, yes.
Louis Freeh.
Yeah.
One of the great ironies of all time.
Yeah.
The director of the FBI, for those unfamiliar with Mr. Freeh.
Uh-huh.
What's the extra H for?
That's what I want to know.
I don't know, but I think you could leave off the last H.
How about for a hypocrite?
Yeah.
That's what the extra H is for.
I like that.
The hypocrite.
Freeh.
Put on that last H for hypocrite.
Yeah.
Okay.
I've got a slogan out of this yet.
It's about he's not running for something.
I could use it against him.
Yeah.
Oh, well.
But, um...
So this is another proposal.
Another proposal, and it's interesting because they're comparing and contrasting it with the
clipper chip proposal.
Uh-huh.
Which is highly similar, only they've apparently come to the conclusion that they can't make
people buy garbage with their garbage in it, so they're going to force people to insert
the back doors in their own algorithms.
Do you have any idea how they can possibly hope to do this?
Um, no.
Actually, it really shows a blatant disregard for any intelligence whatsoever.
Well, that's to be assumed, but...
I don't think they understand what it is they're asking to do.
As a really interesting comparison, if you recall the digital telephony bill that was
passed...
It was passed.
...that says that wiretapping, quote-unquote, technology had to be, uh, designed and built
into all phone systems that were manufactured as of the passing of the bill.
Uh-huh.
Um, and I also believe any that were manufactured retroactively previously to the bill, that
basically every phone system has to have some mechanism for law enforcement.
to eavesdrop.
Um, well, as, as an interesting up yours, I know of at least one telecommunication switch
manufacturer, um, whose implementation, basically, they, they, they added something that would
carry out the necessary requirements, so they wouldn't be fined $100,000 a month or whatever
the crazy fine was.
Right.
Um, the interesting thing is that it's, it's nearly impossible to use, and, um, really doesn't
provide any kind of covert eavesdropping whatsoever.
Um, what it actually does, and I wouldn't be shocked if other telecommunications, uh, equipment
manufacturers did similar things.
Hmm.
All it does is divert the call of the victim, like, say that you were the victim.
The, uh, the phone company, or, you know, basically using the mechanism on, on this particular
switching system, would divert your calls to the law enforcement personnel.
Okay, so all your calls, all your outgoing calls would be forwarded, okay?
And whenever you made a call, it would have to go through this office.
It would be their responsibility to then forward the call out again to its proper destination.
So it's not a passive eavesdropping thing.
It's a complete intercept.
Right.
The call's completely intercepted and rerouted to one destination, and that, it's that destination,
the law enforcement people's responsibility then, to route the call to where it's supposed
to go.
And the information about the call routing is sent over the internet protocol.
I have a question, who pays the bill?
Well, if it's the federal government, I guess the taxpayers do.
Well, if you knew that they were doing this to you, and you called a 900 number, wouldn't
they have to call that 900 number?
They would, yeah.
And they'd have to pay for it, and then it wouldn't show up on your bill, so you'd know for
No, it would have to be back-billed to you.
I mean, the call details are still being kept by your switch, so you are still being billed.
The fact that they have to also place the call, both of you are being billed.
Really?
Well, how else is it going to be done?
But it's only one phone call.
It's one phone call, yeah.
You're making the call.
You have to be billed, right?
Right.
So you're billed for the fact that you even made the call.
Right.
Then the people that are completing the call for you, namely law enforcement personnel, they
have to make the call, so it's going to cost them something, too.
Yeah, but there's still only one call being made.
Right.
I don't understand how they could bill you twice when there's only one call.
They're not billing you twice.
They're billing you once.
They're billing two different people for the same call.
Yeah.
I think the phone companies might like this.
Well, yeah, I think they might, but I think it's really irrelevant because the taxpayers are
going to end up paying for it at the end.
That's true.
And the FBI is not going to pay for it out of their pocket.
Uh-huh.
Well, now, whenever things like this come up, it's always, I mean, you know, it doesn't
stand a snowball's chance in hell of passing under current circumstances, which means those
current circumstances must change somehow, which means something horrible is about to
happen.
Seriously, something horrible is about to happen so people can say, you know, that horrible
thing might not have happened if this bill had been passed.
So let's pass this bill.
So I think Americans should be very careful in the next couple of months because something
horrible is about to happen to prove that this bill is worthy of becoming a law.
Now, what they don't say is that, is this proposed bill retroactive?
All the algorithms that are currently in use for commerce and privacy and everything else,
DES, RSA, MD5, and everything else, you can't just build a back door into the
It's not like a house that you're just going to knock a wall in and build a door.
You know, it's a mathematical algorithm.
It's done.
It's finished.
In some way, in some way, I almost want them to pass this just to see what they do.
Yeah.
It's ridiculous.
See how they enforce this.
It's going to be unbelievable.
But the thing is, these stupid laws do pass.
The cellular monitoring law passed.
The pager monitoring law passed.
We'll be getting into that in just a little bit as well.
They do become laws and they do become enforced.
People get into trouble for the most ridiculous things.
And, you know, we ask ourselves, how is this possible?
How did it happen?
Well, this is how it happens.
It's happening again.
And it'll just keep happening.
You know, what would be even more scary?
What's that?
If this bill was never even proposed.
John Markoff made up the whole thing.
Oh, he's going to write a book about it next week?
No, and him getting it printed will plant the seed in the minds of the senators and the congressmen.
Yeah, they got a lot of things growing up there.
Yeah.
So, I don't know.
All right, a couple other stories.
Wendell Dingus.
That's an alias if I ever heard one.
I wonder if this story is real.
Dingus.
Wendell Dingus, a U.S. hacker, was sentenced by a Tennessee federal court in late May to six months of home monitoring for violations of the amended 1986 Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
Wendell Dingus admitted to a series of attacks to gain unauthorized entry into U.S. Air Force and NASA computers using a Vanderbilt University computer to obtain login passwords.
What is interesting about this case is that the damages to meet the $5,000 requirement of the law were not based on the harm of the hacking, but based on the cost of tracking and catching the hacker.
The court ordered him to pay $40,000 restitution to the Air Force Information Warfare Center in San Antonio, Texas, for the time and effort involved in tracking him.
You realize right now somewhere some little kid is chuckling because he made you say dingus over the air.
Do you think this is a big thing?
I mean, it looks pretty real to me.
It really does.
This came, this has forged in several places.
Actually, you know, it's an old story, too, but it's, I mean, I don't think it's at all.
You know what?
Bernie S. sent me this story.
Bernie S., are you there?
I'm here.
You sent me this story.
I just realized that.
I saw the hell you're here.
I was laughing as I was reading it, and I figured, oh, you've got to read this, too.
Uh-huh.
Well, if it is true, and it came from a reliable source.
Wendell Dingus.
Then it may prove to be a new way for these federal agencies and organizations to finance the debugging of their own security holes.
Yeah, let's keep making hackers pay for it.
Right, exactly.
They just leave the thing wide open.
Anybody who walks into it gets to pay for the development of that particular patch.
That's your way of participating in the development of new technology.
All right.
Bernie, we're going to get back to you in a second, but we have a couple pieces of new technology to introduce to the folks here.
Now, what do you have there?
You have a letter that somebody wrote to us.
Yeah, it's actually.
It's from who?
It's from Freddie from Queens.
Freddie from Queens.
How are you doing?
And he asks, what the heck is this?
Ah, what the heck is it?
What are we talking about?
On this week's What the Heck is This?
We have, um, it actually, it just looks like a company.
Looks like an advertisement from the newspaper.
Yeah, it's an advertisement from the newspaper.
Okay.
For a company that simply is reselling cellular access for drug dealers.
No, but seriously.
What do they advertise?
They don't say for drug dealers, but if you put all the pieces together, no credit needed, no contracts, no security deposits, no monthly airtime statements, prepay for airtime anytime you want, control cellular phone expenses, full one-year manufacturer's warranty, competitive airtime rates.
We also rent phones by the day, week, and month.
How does it work?
Well, that's just it.
That's the end of the ad.
Well, now, what do they give you?
They give you what?
They give you a phone and service, and you prepay.
And how do they turn it off?
Well, I'm assuming it gets deducted from your prepay balance until you have no money left.
Okay, but where is this stored?
Is it through a company of some sort?
Oh, I'm sure they probably bought time on one of the major companies.
They're just not saying who.
It could be AT&T Wireless.
It could be any number of companies.
They're just not saying.
You think it could be Omnipoint?
No, it's highly unlikely because they're not cellular.
These people are cellular.
Okay.
And they have a picture of an old-fashioned Uniden phone.
Interesting.
Do they give rates there at all?
Nope.
They do not give rates.
Wow.
They give two locations, one of them at 59th Street in Manhattan,
and the other one in the middle of nowhere in Long Island City.
And the name of this company is?
Is Track Phone.
Uh-huh.
Now, this could also be used if you're not in the drug trade.
You could use it for, well, what could you use it for?
I don't know.
There must be a use for it other than...
I guess if you have no credit, no bank account, and nothing else.
How about if you want to remain anonymous?
Will this enable you to do that?
Well, that depends what kind of records the company keeps.
If all you do is show up there with 50 bucks and say,
I want a phone for a day,
and there's no questions asked, then yeah, I guess you could remain pretty darn anonymous.
Right.
Okay.
Well, that's something.
Now, we also have this story about how pagers will be offering internet access.
Need the latest stock...
This comes from CNN.
Need the latest stock quote.
An update on the weather forecast.
How about a restaurant recommendation and directions on how to get there?
Just fire up your pager and find all that information on the web.
That's right.
Those beeping, vibrating devices are about to become the latest and smallest vehicle for surfing the world wide web.
Later this month, Wolf Tech will unveil Pocket Genie,
the first software system for visiting websites via a two-way pager.
Pager Makers Motorola and Research in Motion plan to have the web surfing software installed on their new two-way devices,
which are heavier than regular pagers, and have tiny keyboards built in.
Really?
How tiny do you think those keyboards are?
Probably pretty tiny, or else the thing is a lot bigger than they say.
Well, in order to squeeze the most use out of a limited amount of pager memory,
Pocket Genie will offer access to only about 20 websites
that focus on topics such as travel, weather, package tracking, and hacking.
Users will navigate through...
They're not offering that.
All right, it's horoscopes, but it could be hacking.
If we make it so, it could happen, all right?
Users will navigate...
I mean, it's discrimination not to put hacking up there.
Who are they to say, you know, that you can only look at these sites?
Does the pager support frames?
It doesn't say.
It doesn't say here.
But it shouldn't have to matter.
Users will navigate through a series of menus to make their queries,
which will then be sent over paging networks to a computer server at WolfTech's office.
The computer then surfs the web for answers, formats them, and sends them back to the pages.
So it's not like you're really surfing the net.
You're sort of surfing through somebody else.
You're not surfing anything.
Yeah.
You really are.
But you're going to be hearing about this in the future, so maybe you should just know.
I'm sure we will.
The only problem we should correct is the obvious difference between the web and the internet.
Yes.
The web is the web.
Uh-huh.
It's on the internet.
Right.
The internet's the internet.
Well, I don't think they said that, uh, they said you were surfing the web, didn't they?
No, but what's the headline?
Uh, oh, new pages will offer internet access.
Right there.
That's true, yes.
When I can tell that on my pager, then I know I have internet access.
Right now, if I can access 20 pre-canned websites, you know, then that's a lot different.
Right.
The final story this week, AOL taking over CompuServe.
Yeah.
We kind of saw it coming.
I mean, we knew CompuServe was in big trouble, but, uh, this is bigger trouble than I could
have imagined.
Yeah, H&R Block must have been really, really stuck for money.
Well, I mean, CompuServe was falling apart.
It really was.
Yeah.
You know, losing subscribers, losing money, losing passwords.
Losing their mind.
But AOL, I mean, AOL says there's no new plans for it.
They're going to pretty much let it be, but, uh, I don't know about that.
I think eventually they're going to absorb it.
Remember, CompuServe absorbed the source.
Remember that?
Right.
I remember the source.
So now AOL has absorbed CompuServe.
You know, the interesting thing is, and I don't remember if we mentioned it in the past,
the, uh, the source really, uh, had a damaged reputation from all the hacking that was being
done on it.
Yeah, I'm sorry about that.
Seriously, because that went back to the very early days.
Yeah, that was in the early 80s, yeah.
And, uh, there was an awful lot.
I mean, the source was the source.
It really was.
The source.
That was a good name for it.
Yeah.
But it was so easy, too.
Yeah.
You know, it's a bunch of Deck 10s, I think.
Deck 20s.
No, that's CompuServe.
The source was also, no, the source was Prime.
No, the source was Prime machines.
They were Prime machines.
I'm sorry.
You're right.
They were all connected over Prime net.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, those were the good old days.
Yeah.
Now, I'm hoping one day what they'll do is they'll reconstruct the net the way it used
to be, or, you know, different networks the way it used to be.
You know, 300-baud modems and everything.
And we'll just have to, like, use it the way it used to be, you know, 20 years ago.
And it would be sort of like a project to get it to work exactly the same way.
Maybe we could have a microcosm of the net at the Smithsonian.
Well, yeah.
It was meant to be, the way it was meant to be.
But a virtual Smithsonian, not one where you have to go into their stuffy, you know, rooms.
That's true.
We could just do it from home.
Yeah.
Any time of the day or night.
All right.
Bernie S., welcome.
Thank you.
How are you doing?
I'm doing good.
Yeah?
I'm getting ready to celebrate my one-year anniversary.
I can't believe it's been one year.
I can't either.
This year has flown.
It shows how much time flies when you're having fun, because the year before last, I wasn't having
any.
And that seemed to last forever.
Oh, God.
It was a decade, at least.
Yeah.
Well, how has your first year back in society been?
It's been really good.
I've never been better.
Uh-huh.
Truly.
That's good.
And I can vouch for that.
I think you've really, well, certainly improved your living situation over last year, but...
I've bounced back with a vengeance.
Uh-huh.
That's good.
That's really good.
You're speaking to us now on a PCS phone.
Is that right?
Yes.
I'm speaking to you over Sprint PCS.
Sprint PCS.
Wow.
Which is a CDMA protocol.
Uh-huh.
Sounds like you're running.
Are you running somewhere?
Um, actually, I'm walking to the kitchen to check on my dinner.
Ah, okay.
I have some vegetables steaming.
In a microwave?
No.
Wow.
I was going to ask to put the phone in the microwave to see if we can hear a cool sound
there.
Well, it'll be the mixing of microwaves from the phone and, hmm.
Yeah, you might invent something.
Who knows?
Um, but, uh, okay, so now you, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of concerned because we had you
on hold there for a while and we called you on your, your, your Sprint PCS phone.
We must have used up some of your minutes there.
Oh, yeah, probably a few of them, but not many.
I, I have this, Sprint was running this, running this promotion for the past couple of months
to try to get people on their network.
And, uh, the deal is, or was, um, for $75 a month, you get 1,500 minutes.
Whoa, 1,500 minutes.
Peak or, peak or off-peak, you know, whenever, whatever you use is whatever you get.
And, uh, that works out to a little over 25 hours of usage.
Plus, I can call five whole area codes, not my choice, but the five surrounding area codes,
um, all as local calls.
Uh, uh, Bernie, I got, I got a question.
Yeah.
Um, is this, this particular handset you have, is that one of those, um, oh, what's their
Qualcomm?
It's the Sony Qualcomm.
Actually, it's, it's manufactured by a company called QPE, which is 51% owned by Qualcomm
and 49% owned by Sony.
It's a joint venture.
I see.
Do you have the, uh, 800 megahertz CDMA or is it the 1900?
No, this is 1900 megahertz.
Okay, because they have two CDMA networks.
Yeah, they do.
Yeah.
They do.
The, uh, um, I guess, uh, what do they call it?
Uh, Sprint Spectrum?
No, no, that's, no, Sprint Spectrum is TSM.
That's 1900, isn't it?
Right.
And that's 1900 megahertz, right?
Right.
No, but Sprint, Sprint PCS, you could get access to either at, at, at 800 or 1900.
In fact, QPE, this Sprint, uh, or this, uh, Sony Qualcomm venture, uh, manufactures
another, uh, dual mode handset.
Yeah.
It will, uh, work, um, uh, cellular or this 800 megahertz PCS.
I thought both of them were capable of dropping down to regular analog cellular.
Is that not true?
Uh, this handset I have is purely 1900 megahertz CDMA.
That's it.
I see.
They're coming out with, with another one.
I think it's going to be called the QCP 2700.
This is the QCP 1900.
The QCP 2700 will offer, uh, sort of all modes.
Well, not all modes.
Let me guess.
It's 1900 plus 18, plus 800.
Yes.
It's 2700.
What?
1900 megahertz.
Yes.
And 800 megahertz.
Right.
Correct.
They're calling the model number, the 2700.
Oh, is that what they're doing?
Yeah.
Yep.
That's how they do these things?
Qualcomm.
Who knows?
Wow.
I was hoping they called it the 2600, but they didn't.
No, I'm just as glad they didn't.
Bernie, now tell us something about the service.
Is it reliable?
Does it drop out a lot?
It's not bad.
It's still, uh, uh, uh, an infrastructure in progress.
But, um, in the Philadelphia area, which I'm pretty much captive in until mid-1999, thanks
to, uh, uh, the federal government, um, it works fine for me.
Now, I did travel with government permission to Hope a few weeks ago, and the phone worked
just fine up there as well.
In fact, it worked.
Thank the government, too, by the way.
Yes.
I thank them at Hope, and I continue to thank them for everything.
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you for all of it.
We're keeping track.
Mm-hmm.
I'll, uh, I'll never forget them, and, uh, I'll, uh, I hope to show my gratitude in
a big way someday, but whatever way.
Um, but back to, uh, back to the phone, this handset worked, uh, quite nicely in the puck
building, whereas the, um, kind of, the OmniPoint handsets didn't seem to be working that well
there.
No, we had some problems with those.
Um, apparently the brick didn't agree with, with the, uh, I guess the signal or something,
but, uh, the, the, the transmission that the Sprint PCS uses, is that more powerful, or
is it about the same power as, as OmniPoint transmitters?
Believe it or not, these handsets max out at 200 milliwatts.
I don't know, uh, about the OmniPoint, uh, and fiber.
What's that?
I don't remember what they are off the top of my head, but what I, what I do know is
the way CDMA works, you have, um, a lot less of a chance of losing signal than you would
on GSM.
Um, because, so this technique that CDMA uses is known as raking.
Yeah.
Uh, you're actually, yeah, you're actually in communication with, I believe, four transmitters
at any one time.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
And it's a soft, it's a soft handoff kind of thing.
So unlike cellular, where you can actually tell when you're being handed off to the next,
uh, cell, um, you'll never notice it with CDMA because it's, uh, as, as Farber just explained,
you're, you're in connect, in communication with more than one at a time and it's just
a smooth, soft Passover.
Yeah.
With GSM, I believe it's only two.
Do you get the first minute free on incoming?
First incoming minute free, right.
You know, these guys sound a whole lot cheaper.
Yeah.
A 1500 minutes for 70 bucks when, when OmniPoint is 600 minutes for about 90.
I think it's time OmniPoint came out with some new deals.
Yeah, I think so too.
Boy, that's, um, I, I just, my, it's too bad my phone won't go to Sprint PCS.
I have to get a new phone.
I think that's the big disadvantage.
You have to buy a phone that's a couple hundred bucks.
Yeah, you better buy this handset.
But now, now OmniPoint phones also are a couple hundred bucks because those other ones are
nowhere to be found.
Yeah.
The $50 ones.
Well, there's a lot, there's a lot of reasons to get rid of the old Ericsson's.
I mean, one of the reasons, uh, that the phone was discontinued is, um, the, uh, the
newer Ericsson handset, the 388 that's out has, um, is, is a more powerful receiver.
The amp, the amplifier in it is much better.
So it can transmit into your brain a lot easier.
Okay.
Basically, very important.
You, uh, you won't lose signal as easily.
Like, for example, if, if you compare these, the Ericsson 337 with the, uh, the Nokia 2190,
the, uh, the Nokias had, uh, much better ability for retaining signal indoors, like when you
were deep within a building.
Right.
Simply because it was a more powerful receiver.
Um, that's also.
Receiver?
You mean the receiver was more sensitive or the transmitter was more powerful?
Um, both.
In the phone itself, both, both are true.
Well, the power of the transmitter isn't going to affect how, uh, how well you receive
the signal.
No, the power of the transmitter in the phone.
No, that's what I mean.
Yeah.
That's not going to affect how well you receive a weak signal.
No, yeah.
As far as, as far as receiving, the amp was better in the phone.
Uh-huh.
So there was less of a chance you would lose signal.
The other thing is that you sounded better on the new phones because the, uh, vocoder,
the voice encoder in the, uh, the newer Ericsson phones is a higher resolution.
This, uh, this handset uses that, uh, true voice, uh, um, vocoder, which is, uh.
You sound very loud and booming.
Yeah.
Which is like, uh, listen to this.
That's my rice cooker.
Wow.
That is something.
That is that.
We feel like we're in your kitchen.
Bernie, do you?
I can fry, I can fry my brain for a mere five cents a minute with this, with this deal.
Do you know?
Which is cheaper than anybody else can fry their brain.
Wait a minute.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Hold on a second.
Five cents a minute?
Where'd you get that?
Well, if you, if you work out the math, 1,500 divided by.
Oh, okay.
What about, what about after that?
What are the rates after the 1,500 minutes are used up?
That's 10 cents a minute.
Really?
That's all?
Yeah.
And you are, you are locked into Sprint, uh, long distance, but it's only 10 cents.
Well, they have two, they have two.
They have two long distance plans you have to choose from, from Sprint.
You have to use Sprint.
There's no equal access.
But there isn't with a lot of other wireless carriers either.
Um, you, uh, can either pay, uh, 15 cents a minute all the time.
Or, pay 25 cents a minute from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. and 10 cents per minute, 7 p.m. to 7 a.m.,
which is, and I chose the latter, because if I'm at work, I just call on their phone,
so.
Hmm.
Yeah, we don't have any kind of long distance deals with Omnipoint at all.
It's just.
What do they, uh, what do they charge you per minute for long distance there?
For long distance?
Like.
Yeah, over, over the, over the airtime itself.
Well, never, oh, over the airtime.
Um, I don't remember.
I think I remember it being something like, if somebody could correct me if I'm wrong,
calling long distance is, is, uh, something like a dollar a minute, isn't it?
Dad!
No?
Calling a dollar, what, say what?
Oh, 69 cents?
Okay, 69.
That's for Omnipoint.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's absurd, I think.
Yeah.
Man.
It's, uh, it's rather high.
MCI has this 5 cent a minute deal now on Sundays.
Yeah.
You can combine, you, Sprint will allow you to combine your long distance, uh, promotions
with your, on, on their PCS service with your long distance promotions on your home residential
service.
So, like, if you get a, you know, a coupon or something from Sprint for your residential
service, you can apply it towards your long distance charges on your PCS service.
It's, it's a good, it's a good thing.
Now, what I'm hoping is, although I think this is a really good service, it's only in
about 70 cities now.
They're, they're building up, uh, pretty rapidly.
But I'm hoping this starts a price war amongst all these carriers and then Omnipoint and even
some of the cellular carriers will come down to a reasonable level.
Well, that's, let's, let's hope so.
5 cent a minute is pretty hard to beat.
No, that's, that's, that's certainly true.
I'm going to be looking into this a lot more and, uh, hopefully we'll, uh, well, we'll learn
something about it.
Hey, do you know anything about Sprint Spectrum, which is the, uh, GSM equivalent of Sprint,
which is not here, unfortunately?
Oh, I know they're, uh, they're offering it in the Baltimore, Washington area.
Right.
Do they have similar prices to, to what Sprint PCS has?
It's about three times what I'm paying.
Really?
Now, I talked to a Sprint rep who served the, uh, Baltimore, Washington market, um, a couple
of months ago.
And I told him what I'm paying up here and he was astonished.
And he said, well, he had learned in one meeting that he'd had just recently, this was a couple
months ago, that Sprint was changing their plans to build out a nationwide GSM, uh, infrastructure
in favor of, uh, sinking more money into the CDMA PCS.
Wouldn't they inadvertently, or, or I guess not really inadvertently, but wouldn't they
lock themselves out of the world GSM market?
Well, you keep saying that, but I don't, you say locking themselves out of the world GSM
market in what way?
Well, if they're going to invest all their money in, in CDMA, I mean, the, the network
is simply totally incompatible with the rest of the world.
Well, you've been saying that, uh, your, your phone is compatible anywhere in the world
in that it uses the same, same protocol and, and all that.
But the truth is, if you go to Europe, you still have to use another phone.
You can take your, your SIM module out and stick it into another phone over there, but your
phone will not work in Europe.
They use totally different frequencies there.
Yeah, well that, that may be true, but there's no, yeah, but there's no concept of a subscriber
identity module in, in a CDMA phone.
If true, if I took my, if I took, I could take my SIM card in over a hundred countries
all around the world and I could use it in any of those countries.
True.
And I could, I could rent a handset very cheaply.
So could I.
So if you'd have to rent a handset anyway, what's the big, what's the big deal?
Okay.
The big deal is that starting early this coming year, um, Ericsson, Nortel, Motorola, and some
of the other manufacturers are going to be introducing the, uh, dual, uh, 1900 and 900 megahertz
phones.
So, so that phone will, will be compatible with the frequencies used in Europe.
Right.
900 megahertz is the frequency for GSM abroad, not just Europe.
Now that makes sense.
Why is this such a big deal though?
We're not hopping to Europe every other week, you know?
And I'm not even allowed to go to Europe, so it doesn't make any difference for me.
Most of us will probably never even see Europe and, and we don't associate with any Europeans
anyway.
Well, if you're never going to leave the, never going to leave the state or the city, you
could just get a Nextel phone.
That's true too.
By the way, I heard an interesting tidbit about Nextel the other day, and I'm not really
familiar with, with their, uh, technology, but I heard from a reliable source just about
a week or two ago that, um, up until about two weeks ago, uh, Nextel was untappable, uh,
with regard to federal law enforcement agencies.
And they were really upset about this.
And it took Nextel a long time to get the, uh, this, uh, you know, federally mandated, uh,
digital telephony bill also called CALEA, uh, mandated, uh, wiretapping system in place
and working.
And they only got it working a couple of weeks ago.
So anybody who's been using a, um, a Nextel phone up until just a few days ago was pretty,
could be pretty confident that their calls would not be wiretapped by anybody.
Well, I don't think it's, uh, anything good or nice or intentional on the part of, uh,
Nextel.
Oh, not at all.
No, no, all the equipment is made by Motorola.
And to my knowledge, there is nothing in the, uh, the protocols used by, uh, by IDEN.
IDEN is the, uh, integrated digital enhanced network, which is, uh, what Nextel is based
on, which is a proprietary network and protocol made by Motorola.
Um, as far as, uh, what I found out about it, it simply uses straight TDMA.
It's just, uh, it's, it uses, uh, essentially similar, uh, you know, the multiplexing protocol
is the same as that used on digital cellular as well as GSM.
Just a multiplexing protocol in and of itself.
But, uh, uh, it's simply used over two-way radio.
Right.
Nothing I've heard would indicate that there are any security mechanisms whatsoever.
No, there's no, there's no encryption or anything.
No, exactly.
But it, but apparently it took Nextel up until very recently to put in place their federally
mandated wiretapping systems.
Yeah, there was probably just no real mechanism in the switches.
Right.
As far as, uh, allowing law enforcement personnel to gain access to, uh, phone conversations.
But I guess there is now.
But there, there is now, yeah.
Yep, so we have to find something else.
Speaking of getting law enforcement access to, uh, to things, Bernie, I imagine you've heard
about this breaking news network story, which took place a couple of weeks ago, where, where
people in a news agency were, um, I guess, arrested for intercepting pager traffic.
Um, what do you think about that?
I've been following it pretty closely, and I think it's, uh, uh, much ado about not much.
Uh-huh.
Um, these, these, uh, these paging signals have been floating around for, well, Poxag's been
around for, yeah, there were 20 years.
Uh-huh.
That's the post office, uh, you know, with the actual, what's the advisory group, post
office something advisory group fiber, how does that, what's that acronym?
I don't, I don't recall what the acronym is.
Well, the, the, the protocol, the, the, the, the acronym for the protocol that most pagers
use, it's, uh, called Poxag, and it's been in use for over 20 years.
Before that, they were using something called GoLay, and there were other things before that.
But, uh, now there's Flex and the two-way protocol, Reflex, both from Motorola.
But that's what those new pagers you were just talking about earlier will use.
Well, the point, the point is, it's easy to listen to.
All you need is basically a receiver with the right kind of, uh, you know, software.
Yeah, this, these, these transmissions are not encrypted.
They're, they're broadcast in the clear on, on single frequencies that don't hop around.
You can pick up with any hundred dollar scanner.
You can buy a RadioShack.
Now, there's, uh, software and, uh, very simple circuits out there that you can build,
put together to, uh, really, like, plug something into the earphone jack, your scanner, and then,
uh, uh, plug the circuit into the serial port of your PC and run the program and, uh, watch
all this data fly by.
And you can also, uh, not, not only view every page going over any particular pager frequency,
which there, there may be a couple dozen in any given metropolitan market.
Um, and you can look those up, uh, in various books, the, the paging frequencies.
You can just scan around until you hear something.
Most of them are in the, like, the 450 or 900, no, low line, 900 megahertz range.
You can see all this stuff fly by.
And, uh, most of the software out there floating around, like, on the internet and other places,
will let you, uh, look for particular cap codes.
The cap code is what uniquely identifies each individual pager.
So you could, you know, theoretically target Mayor Giuliani's pager if you knew his cap code.
There's been a lot of theoretical targeting going on, apparently, of, of his pager.
Um, it's, but you have to realize how easy this is.
I mean, I use a pager and I know how easy it is.
I saw this being done, uh, before not, let's see, in 1986, before the ECPA,
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, was enacted.
And, uh, since that, it's been illegal to do this.
And there's, and also, more recently, even more legislation has been passed to make this illegal.
I think the, the folks at the Breaking News Network were charged with not only, uh,
didn't, it wasn't too specific about what federal statutes they were violating,
but it did say they were, uh, being charged with violating the Electronic Communications Privacy Act
and wire fraud statutes.
But, uh, in any case, these people are looking at some serious time for basically listening to a radio
and watching the data on a, you know, on a public frequency that's, you know, that's,
anybody can pick up with a hundred dollar scanner.
I think about two or three months ago, there was a very good article written by the folks up at the loft in Boston.
It was published in, uh, um, Electronics Now magazine.
And, uh, it, uh, just showed a simple circuit you could build in about a couple of hours with parts you could buy at any radio shack.
How does this sound familiar?
Parts you can buy at any radio shack?
Yeah, I've heard this before somewhere.
I can't remember.
And, uh...
Burn all the radio shacks.
Yes.
Um, and, uh, you can download the software free and, uh, and basically watch all the, uh, pager data.
Now you could build, you know, technically, or I guess if you wanted to walk on the, on the edge,
you could build one of these things and use it solely to monitor your own pages.
Say you wanted to, uh, have somebody who would log all the pages you all ever received into a file
and then you just refer to them in the future instead of, like, gee, what was that page I got three days ago
that I erased kind of stuff?
You could use it for that.
A pager logging device.
Exactly.
So, and that's, I guess, what these folks at Breaking News Network were accused of, of doing,
is, uh, logging all these pages and, uh, thinking about what, what law enforcement agencies have been doing for years is, uh,
if they, uh, they don't know your cap code, which is kind of like your electronic serial number for your pager,
but they know what your pager number is, they'd call your pager with, uh, just some, some random number they'd make up
or just, just make up any kind of number, a few digits long.
And, uh, if they knew what your page, they, if they knew from your, they, they could generally tell from your phone number
which paging company was allocated that particular telephone exchange.
Right.
So they'd scan the frequencies for that, you know, if they, assuming it didn't have a warrant,
which is generally what you can assume with a lot of agencies using, uh, federal agencies doing wiretapping, I think.
But in any case, um, they would just, uh, listen to the, the, the handful of frequencies assigned by the FCC
to that particular paging carrier, and they would know that it was that particular paging carrier
from the telephone exchange of your pager number, uh, until they saw in the flying by, in the, in the log,
your, uh, that random number they, they paged you with.
So they'd page you with that number, you'd get paged by it, and you'd, you'd, you'd, like, call the number back,
and, like, it's a non-working number, you wonder what that was all about.
Well, it could be some local or federal agency or somebody else who's trying to have you under surveillance, uh,
sort of flagging you so they can snag that flag.
And then once they snag that, that number, the cap code will be associated with that,
the cap code associated with your pager would be displayed on the screen or logged on,
in the file next to that field of data.
So then when you have the cap code, from then on, you can just have the software, uh,
look for all transmissions to that cap code on that frequency,
and then you can log all, all pages to a particular pager
without knowing that, that pager's, initially, without knowing that pager's cap code.
So, right, so, I mean, basically it's the same exact technique, uh,
that the people listening to pagers use, that law enforcement uses,
and I think they, they might not want that to get out, but it already is out.
Well, now it's out.
Yeah.
Well, you know what?
If you have any strange pages on your pager, um, beware.
Yeah, it could just be someone feeling you out to, to see.
Exactly.
You don't, you don't have to do anything.
As long as a page goes through, they'll know what your cap code is.
It's, it's, it's pretty simple.
All right, let's go out our phone number, 212-279-3400,
and, um, special thanks to the person who gave me the formula.
Uh, we have an anti-rebel formula here.
An anti-rebel formula?
This is guaranteed to work, from what I understand.
Great deal.
Okay, well, you have to, first of all,
pick a number between 25, uh, 25 and 50.
Okay.
Fyber, why don't you do it first?
Pick a number between 25 and 50.
And don't tell you what it is?
No, you have to tell me what it is.
How am I going to pick a line if you don't tell me what it is?
Oh, um, 30.
30, okay.
Uh, okay, it's even, so we divide by 2.
That gives us 15.
Um, then we add 2 to that, which makes it 17.
17, which is a prime number.
Okay, if 2 digits, you add the 2 digits,
so that makes 1 plus 7 is 8.
If more than 7, which is the number of lines we have,
subtract 5, so 8 minus 5 is 3,
we pick up line 3.
See how it works?
Okay.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes, I guess that this scheme doesn't work.
Back to the drawing board.
This isn't, this isn't fair.
This is not fair.
Hi, Brownie.
Hi, Fyber.
Hi, Emmanuel.
How are you?
Hey, how are you?
Well, um, I just wanted to ask...
I wanted to ask one question about ADSL.
Is ADSL the thing like ISDN that you can get,
you can use your phone and your ADSL line for your computer?
Can you use both the phone?
Yeah, but ADSL is not integrated.
Uh, the, the, the phone service and the digital data service
are not integrated like with ISDN.
So basically...
For the ADSL, you're using really, really high-speed digital data service,
and you're using your analog phone service over the same pair.
So you can't use your phone and computer at the same time?
Yeah, you can, but the two know nothing about each other.
Will you be able to in the future?
Be able to what?
Use your phone and your computer at the same time on an ADSL?
You can, on both.
You can on an ADSL line?
Yes, that's what I just said.
Okay, um, now when you leave a message on an Omnipoint phone,
do you pay for the, uh, incoming call?
Even though you're leaving a message?
You didn't answer the call.
No, but, all right, let's say I call you on your, on your Omnipoint phone.
I just leave a message.
Do I, do you have to pay for that as an incoming call, or?
You mean that, my notification that I got a message?
Well, when you get the message, you have to pay,
let's say I leave you a two-minute message.
Do you have to, does that deduct two minutes off of your incoming calls?
No, you left it on my voicemail.
Okay.
I'm going to answer the phone and talk to you for two minutes.
Okay, and when you answer the phone, then you pay?
Yeah.
Okay.
Now, when is the Hope video coming out?
Beyond Hope?
Well, it'll be out.
Okay.
You'll, you'll, you'll be notified.
2001.
Yeah, sometime sooner than that.
Did you change your cellular phone number, Emmanuel?
Uh, why?
Because I called it, and it gives me a strange message.
Weren't you instructed never to call that number again?
Well, I was, but, um...
I believe there's even a piece of paper that says you are not to call that number again.
Well, put it this way.
Judge Friedman?
Does Judge Friedman ring a bell?
Well, put it this way.
He'll be ringing your bell pretty soon.
And you'll be hearing bells at 6.30 every morning for a while.
That's right, that's right.
So consider that a friendly warning.
Oh, boy, what are you going to do with people like that?
Well, I, I, I'm embarrassed.
Um, I wasn't supposed to add 2.
I was only supposed to add 2 if it was odd.
Oh, really?
It's my own damn fault.
If I, if I hadn't added 2, I would have picked up line, well, I don't know.
It doesn't matter anymore.
It doesn't matter.
I'll keep the formula for next week, but, uh, I'm embarrassed because I...
Simple little mistakes like that have caused all kinds of...
Yeah, well, it just gives, it shows you, you know, the gravity of the situation, what you're dealing with here.
Ah, that's, uh, all right, I'm sorry to everybody about that.
Uh, 212-279-3400, um, doesn't matter which one we, uh, we, we, uh, pick up now, I guess.
Good evening.
Oh, of course the button has to work.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Speak up.
Hello.
Yes, go ahead.
This is your Utah friend again.
Are you kidding me?
I don't believe this.
How do you get through twice?
I don't know.
No, I just call persistently for about an hour, and eventually I get through.
Well, you know, if we had a few more people like you, then the other persistent people that we, um, we're trying not to pick up on...
Like Rebel?
How did you know?
He's in Utah, but he still knows about Rebel.
I always listen to your shows when they're up.
Well, the show with you on it last week is now up on the web, I believe.
Oh, did you just put it up, like, today?
Uh, I think it's, it's either going up tonight or it's up already, I'm not sure exactly.
Because I checked Sunday morning at about 6, and you guys uploaded one, so I listened to that one.
Yeah, I think we're all caught up now, or we will be, pretty soon.
I think we've only been caught up on, like, two occasions.
Yeah, it's a rarity.
So what's new in Utah, though I'm pretty sure the answer's going to be nothing.
Uh, yeah, nothing.
Uh-huh.
And the weather's always the same out there, right?
Uh, basically, but now we're having, like, a monsoon season out here, and it's kind of rainy.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
People know how to deal with that over there?
Uh, um, yeah, just stay inside.
No, no panicking or anything like that?
That's good, that's good.
Well, we have Bernie S. on the phone.
Oh.
You want to say hi to Bernie S.?
Yeah, sure.
Oh, say hi to Bernie S.
Hello, Bernie.
Hi.
Hi.
Bernie's in his kitchen, I believe, right?
Mm.
Okay, he's speaking on his Sprint PCS phone.
And eating rice and vegetables at the same time.
Uh-huh.
And drinking water.
Unbelievable.
Mm.
Um, well, do you have any questions for Bernie S., or Bernie S., do you have any questions about Utah?
Utah?
Uh, yeah, Bernie, uh, how long were you imprisoned?
Uh, a total of 14 hellish months.
In fact, this is the one-year anniversary of his being released.
Is it to the day?
Well, no, the, uh, 13th.
I was released on Friday the 13th of September last year.
And coincidentally, the year before that, when I was released, shortly before I was reincarcerated again, that was also Friday the 13th when I was released.
So, Friday the 13th were very lucky days for me.
What are the odds, you know?
Yeah, it's kind of an irony.
Yeah.
I have a Utah question.
Okay, Fiber has a Utah question.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Is it true that mineral salt settles on your car when you wake up in the morning?
Uh, no.
I heard that a layer of salt sediment is, like, settles on everything.
See, that's why we need this communication, cultural exchange program here, because this kind of, this kind of stuff just festers.
I heard that happens in Salt Lake City.
Probably on rare occasions when there's a giant windstorm and it blows over from the great salt flats, but...
Your car falls into the Salt Lake, maybe.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay, well, um, if there's nothing else, do you have anything to say to our listeners before we move on?
Um, they're changing their way code here.
They're adding one more, so we have a total of three in the...
They're changing 801?
Yeah, I heard that they're putting in another one.
Really?
But there's no people out there.
How could they be adding?
Actually, right now, there's a million people on the Wasatch Front.
That's just the, you know, the basic line in the middle of the state.
Uh-huh.
And then the rest of it is staying the same.
I mean, the Wasatch Front is staying the same, and the rest of it is changing, because...
I don't know why.
I think one area code can handle a million people, but, hey.
That's pretty weird.
Yeah.
That is pretty weird.
You don't know what the area code will be?
I don't know.
I think it's, uh, 407, somewhere around there.
It has a four at the beginning.
That's...
It's got a four at the beginning.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, we'll look into that.
That's, uh, that's interesting news.
Thanks for calling.
Before we go, I'm another one hearing you, Tom.
Where'd you come from?
Listening in.
Wow.
That's pretty scary.
What's the deal with Kevin Mitnick now?
The deal with Kevin Mitnick?
Yeah.
Well, um, we haven't heard any, any real updates recently.
Um, as far as I know, he's still, you know, in the same, uh, position in prison, uh, where
he's, uh, he's looking at a trial date of next January.
So they haven't decided how long they're going to try to keep him now, or...
They haven't even gotten to that stage yet.
I mean, you know, the way I look at it, if, uh, if he was found guilty of everything he
was ever charged with, going back to his childhood, he's been in prison too long.
I don't know.
I'm sure.
That's, it's, it's crazy what they've done to him.
Over two and a half years, you know, without ever being formally sentenced for, uh, you
know, for, for what it is they ultimately plan to charge him with.
I think, is the NORAD thing too, how he got in a NORAD, because that's been posted everywhere?
I believe a lot of that is myth.
Yeah, he claimed himself he never broke into NORAD.
Yeah, and when you, when you start digging around a little bit and asking and looking
beyond the John Morkoff books and things, you'll, you'll see that a lot of it is just
pure speculation.
Yes.
All right?
Yes.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
Okay.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
And Bernie, of course, you know about pure speculation, right?
Oh, yeah.
You and your dental putty.
Oh, yeah.
They speculated that I had, uh, C4 plastic explosives in my house, and that was used to
paint me as being, uh, in the words of the judge, one, uh, one step above a terrorist.
But, uh, they never mentioned that it was, they determined that it was actually dental
putty that was left in the house by the dentist who owned the house before me, but.
I still don't know, does one step above a terrorist mean that you are worse than a terrorist
or better than a terrorist?
I've never figured that out.
Wasn't it CNN that said I was one step above a carjacker?
Wow.
So, they said something along those lines.
Well, I think that's a compliment.
Yeah, but did they mean that I'm better or worse?
No, I think they mean that you're better than a carjacker because you're a step above a carjacker.
That's how I would interpret that.
You know, a step below a carjacker.
But in Bernie's case, it's a bit more nebulous.
I don't know exactly how they mean it.
What did, what did they mean by one step above a carjacker?
It was just, it sounded cool to say, I guess.
I don't know.
It makes no sense.
It's CNN.
It doesn't have to make sense.
All right, let's take another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, I would like to know, what do you think about the AT&T cellular phone offer, which is one hour and 30 minutes for $25 a month?
One hour and 30, so 90 minutes for $30 a month.
That doesn't sound too good, considering Bernie's getting 1,500 minutes for $70.
But you have to buy the whole month for $70, right?
Oh, yeah.
Right.
Well, supposing you only need it for emergencies and you may not use it at all.
What do you suggest?
Well, I mean, that sounds like, I think on the point is.
I have the best suggestion.
Yeah.
I have the best suggestion.
Go ahead.
If all you're interested in is for emergency use only of your cellular phone, go buy a used one from somebody for, if we market, you can get them for $10 or $20.
Get one of the high-power bag phones that are 3 watts instead of those 0.6-watt handsets.
Well, wait, say that again.
All I know is this is...
Go to a flea market and buy one of those transportable cellular phones, the ones that plug into your cigar lighter and fit in a small bag.
Right.
They're heavier than the ones you hold in your...
They're about the size of an eclair.
Okay.
Those are full 3 watts.
You'll get more range with that.
Then, don't even register it.
This is completely legal.
All the cellular carriers are required now, I think by federal law, but I could be wrong about that, but they're required to carry 911 calls.
So, you can use that phone anywhere you go where there's cellular coverage to call 911, and you will get the emergency 911 service.
Is that all you wanted it for, or did you want to be able to receive calls in personal emergencies, or what?
No, not receive calls, but say I got stranded on the highway, and I just wanted to call the nearest, you know, service station.
Well, if you call, odds are you wouldn't know what the nearest service station is anywhere if you're stranded out in the middle of nowhere.
No, no, see, I'm traveling back and forth in wintry weather, and I do know my local service station's number, and a carrier card, and stuff like that.
And I want to call them to come and pick me up.
Oh, you need an account, then, to be able to call that number.
But, if you want to have totally free emergency cellular service for the rest of your life, just get a, buy a cellular phone, and don't ever register it.
If you dial 911 and hit send, you will get your emergency services.
Yeah, but 911 might not appreciate her calling them when she's just, you know, stranded between two gas stations, you know.
Well, you could say that it was a very scary situation.
Well, I don't know.
But what about, didn't Clinton propose that there was another number everybody should have for, like, less than emergency-type calls?
What was that?
912.
912?
No, no.
No, it was something else.
It was 511 or something?
311, I think.
311.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think the cellular carriers are required to carry 311 calls.
Now, may I ask the caller, where are you located?
What part of it?
Westchester.
Okay.
Would Omnipoint have a fairly decent deal here, where you don't have any contract, where you just pay for each call?
How much would that cost?
Would it be, like, $10 a month?
Well, they include something with every deal.
The lowest deal, I think, is, what is it, like, $25?
I think it's $25 or $29, actually.
No, I think there's one that's about $10 or something.
That's what I thought.
$9.99.
No, $9.99 was the summer deal.
You know, I don't like these summer deals.
What's different about the summer than the fall, as far as phones go?
Nothing.
Well, it was $9.99, I think, for the first two or three months or something.
It's a gimmick.
That's what it is.
No, they should have a deal where you don't pay anything except for the phone calls.
You know what's wrong with that?
It'll never happen.
Why not?
Because they want to get, they're greedy.
They want more money.
Well, we should add that GSM also carries all 911 calls.
Yeah, that's true.
So you always have to get that.
Yeah, you could get an only point handset with no SIM card in it and dial 911.
Fiber, is that the case if your service has been, if your account has been deactivated?
Yeah.
Yeah, you don't have to have a SIM card in the phone at all.
But you do have to have coverage.
Yeah, you do have to have coverage.
That might be a bit trickier for that.
But that's why cellular is still better for emergency use because it's everywhere.
Well, thank you, caller, for that question.
Okay.
Good luck.
Bye-bye.
That's the secret that cellular carriers don't want to get out, that they have to carry 911 calls,
even if you don't have an account on that phone.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, and that does make a lot of sense for them to have to do that as well.
Listen, Bernie, we're out of time.
I want to thank, briefly, I want to thank everybody.
Looking back over the past year, I want to thank everybody who wrote me and did whatever they could to help compel various district attorneys and judges and prison officials to spring me when I was sprung.
Because if it weren't for them and the actions of my attorney who kind of rode the coattails of people calling on my behalf, I don't know how much longer I would have languished in prison.
So thank you, everybody.
I appreciate it.
I want to thank all the BIA listeners who took part in that as well and made those phone calls and just basically were with you on the whole ordeal throughout.
And I learned a lot from them, and I think we all sort of experienced something.
You know, lots of times we seem to be on the edge of something.
We seem to be standing in darkness, you know, and it looks hopeless.
And that's exactly the time where things change, you know, where something happens.
You see something you never saw before.
And that's something I learned out of that experience, and I hope to bring that along to other experiences as well.
Bernie, thank you for the inspiration.
Thank you.
All right.
We'll be back again next week.
Fiber Optic, have yourself a good night.
Thank you.
And we'll see you next week.
And until then, stay technologically aware.
Good night.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bumbittly Bump
But the best expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bumbittly Bump
Yeah I feel like that's what I'm afraid
That was a good physical
My way you do
I did see a little bit
It could be a man
But the purpose of all
And you can't even believe
It could be a little bit
And then he could change
And you can't even follow
How you feel
And it kind of
You know,
And you can't believe
You know,
You can't believe
I can never
Or
You're
I can't believe
Thank you.
And you're listening to WBAI in New York 99.