and democratic expression and power is felt that's my goal that's why we have we the people and i
believe that's why most of you are listening out there so optimism of the will even though
sometimes the intellect is very much put off by what we hear and what we see this is jerry brown
for we the people i want to thank barbara fisher for engineering and tom whalen for coming in and
helping putting together this tape with milan chomsky we're with you tomorrow good night you
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sounds like fun for one and all this is radio station wbai in new york where the time is eight o'clock
time for off the hook
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off the wall
i cut myself while shaving now i can't make a call
it couldn't get much worse
but if they could they would
from dilly bomb for the best expect the worst
i hope that's understood
from dilly
Thank you.
And a very good evening to everybody.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein with another exciting episode of Off the Hook.
And Fiber is a bit under the weather tonight, but that's no excuse for him not to take part in things.
We're going to give him a call, except we're going to call him using something that one of our listeners sent us.
Yeah, they sent us a calling card.
Well, not a calling card, but, you know, one of those, I guess, long distance cards where you can use things for a free amount of time, I guess.
It's called a TDK Talk 5 card.
Like, I don't know where these things come from, but let's get ourselves a dial tone here.
Okay, we're going to call the special predetermined number.
And enter the secret code.
Welcome to the TDK Talk 5 phone line.
Please enter your card number now.
Yeah, I heard him.
I don't need backup.
Hold on.
Didn't think I'd play all of it.
Thank you.
To place a call to the United States, to Canada, or to the Caribbean, press 1.
To place an international call, press 011.
For special services, press star.
We don't need special services.
Let's go for the United States.
Please enter the area code and phone number now.
Okay, we're going to call right downtown to FiberOptics.
And hopefully, it will go through without any problems.
It's taking a while.
To place a call to the United States, to Canada, or to the Caribbean, press 1.
Okay, let's do this all over again.
International call.
Let's do it all over again.
Press.
Please enter the area code and phone number now.
Okay, I'm going to enter the area code.
And now I'm going to enter the rest of the number.
Okay, we still have tones here.
Good.
You have five minutes remaining.
Yeah, I know.
If I can get started, please.
And I hope it doesn't start now.
In fact, let's time this.
I've got a timer right here.
It works.
Yeah, it works all right.
I'm just trying to figure out how to start the timer.
Does that do it?
No.
Oh, no, that doesn't.
Okay, so we have to subtract two seconds from that.
And hopefully, we'll get five minutes out of this.
How are you doing?
You sound just as good as if I called you direct.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Yeah, this is the TDK Talk 5 card that someone sent us.
TDK?
Yeah, apparently you get this when you buy something from them.
I don't know.
Like cassette tapes or something?
Maybe if that's what they sell.
I guess so.
Yeah.
But you know what's funny?
On the back, it says, at the end of your ten free minutes, your call will be automatically disconnected.
Yeah, and she said you only had five.
She said you only had five.
How would you know that?
I was listening to the show.
Oh, yeah, the radio.
Of course, I forgot about that part of this whole program.
Yeah, okay, so we'll stay on as long as we can.
This is sort of reminiscent of the Bernie S. days when he got cut off.
But, of course, we can call you right back on a regular phone.
Sure, because I'm seated comfortably at home.
All right.
Well, we've had an interesting week as far as breaking news stories and things like that.
And I don't mean the breaking news network.
That's a whole other thing.
I mean, let's call it safe things.
You know what safe things are, don't you?
Safe things.
Safe.
Yeah, they're supposed to be.
Oh, you mean like safes that you put your money in?
No, not those kind of safes.
Safes as in, well, let me see.
What exactly does it stand for?
Give me one moment here to look it up.
The security and freedom through encryption.
Actually, I don't know what the T, the T sort of messes it up there.
Actually, it would be sort of safe T almost, S-A-F-T-E.
But, no, they're calling it the safe bill.
Security and freedom through encryption.
Yeah, exactly.
Now, this bill was originally sponsored by a couple of people, and we talked about this some weeks ago.
It was part of a sort of a movement to, I guess, soften export controls on encryption.
And the bill has sort of been taken over by the, hijacked, if you will.
The bill has been hijacked by people like Louis Free, who have used it instead to make the encryption laws all the more stringent.
Do you think that's a valid assessment?
It's a scary assessment, but unfortunately, everything that I've read has indicated exactly the same.
Okay, what I'm going to do is I'm going to read part of a New York Times story, and then we'll discuss this.
Actually, by the time I finish, I think we'll be cut off, because we're up to two.
We're halfway through our five minutes.
Okay.
Yeah.
Actually, why don't we keep you on for the first part so we can take advantage of this free talk time.
Okay.
And tell us if anything exciting is going on in your world of, I don't know, ISDN and GSM.
Oh, gosh.
And GSL and all that other kind of stuff.
Well, concerning ADSL, we did get a message from someone else in Canada.
Uh-huh.
I think you got the message, too.
Yes.
It was somebody that lived in British Columbia.
It was BC Telephone.
And he said that he highly doubts the claims of...
Yeah, in fact, I have it right here.
Yeah, the person that we had on last time.
I doubt he's paying $5 Canadian for both the ADSL connection from Bell as well as his IP connectivity.
$5 or $55?
$55, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Nevertheless, it's still going to be pretty cheap, he says, though.
It will still be pretty cheap.
I'm sure it'll be pretty cheap.
But the thing is, again, is how they're going to structure the pricing of it.
If a T1 is going to cost $500, why is something six times faster going to only cost $50?
You know, something's wrong.
Well, how much would a T1 have cost 20 years ago?
20 years ago, it would have been astronomical.
I know, that's the whole thing.
Technology is moving in such a way that it's more...
Wait, 20 years ago, I don't think there was any such thing as a T1 anyway.
Well, if you knew the right people.
The Internet backbone wasn't even that fast.
Oh, the Internet's been around forever.
You have 60 seconds remaining for this call.
Okay, she came in just about the right point.
But, you know, I don't think I should have to pay for the time it says her to say that.
Yeah, I know.
And the discussion I have about it afterwards.
Yeah.
So, anyway.
Okay, so we only have 60 seconds left, Fiber.
So, anything you want to say in the concluding minute?
Um, well, I hope that you'll call me back.
Well, yeah, I'll call you back, but it's not going to be the same.
What, because this is a free?
This is free, yeah.
This is off the TDK.
TDK is picking up the bill for this one.
Unbelievable.
Yeah.
Think of all the chemicals they can dump.
That's true.
I don't know how I help them doing that, but...
We're down to 25 seconds, so really, if you have anything important to say, please say it.
Well, you know, there's a lot of guys waiting on line behind me.
Oh, boy.
The good old days, right?
Yeah.
All right, we're down to like 10 seconds or so.
You have zero units remaining.
Units?
Oh, how rude.
How did minutes turn into units?
All right, let's get them back now.
Hopefully, this connection will be much better, since it's a local Bell Atlantic connection.
There we go.
Actually, you sound much better now.
Yeah.
Yeah, you sounded kind of far away before.
Okay, so that's the TDK offer there.
Thank you very much for that.
And thanks to the listener for sending that in.
That was quite helpful.
Okay, so let's talk about this safe thing.
Let me first get into the...
Safe, yeah.
...get into the New York Times article.
The House Select Committee on Intelligence, in a vote that critics...
Yeah, I know it's a contradiction in terms.
In a vote that critics said would effectively outlaw software as we know it, on Thursday endorsed an FBI-backed encryption proposal requiring all data-scrambling technology to be equipped with a spare key for law enforcement.
All data-scrambling technology.
The proposal would establish the first controls on domestic encryption technology and mandate a decryption system, called Key Recovery, that would give law enforcement access to computer communications with a court order.
The bill cast such a wide net that software makers said it would cover virtually every type of software made today.
There were also questions about its impact on telecommunications, such as digital phones.
The Intelligence Committee vote during a closed meeting came as Louis J. Free, the director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, continued to gain momentum for his proposal to mandate key recovery and strengthen export controls by giving the defense secretary a stronger voice in decisions about what technologies can be exported.
It was a second committee vote this week gutting the Safety and Freedom Through Encryption Act, which was a bill by Representative Bob Goodlatte, who is a Republican of Virginia, and Zoe Lofgren, Democrat of California, that was designed to ease export controls on encryption technology and prohibit key recovery.
It's kind of turned completely around there.
Now, what does this mean?
Well, we've been doing a little bit of investigation on the net, and this is how people are interpreting this.
Selling crypto, for instance, selling unapproved encryption products that do not include immediate access to plain text becomes a federal crime.
Immediately after this bill becomes law, five years in jail, plus fines.
Distributing, importing, or manufacturing such products after January 31st, 2000, is another crime.
What do you think about that?
There's a lot of criminals waiting to become criminals.
I'll tell you, you know, I think I'll become a criminal at that point.
I really think I will.
How about this?
For network providers, those of you who provide access to people out there, anyone offering scrambled network service, including encrypted web servers or even SSH, would be required to build in a backdoor for the government by January 31st, 2000.
I swear, when I first saw this, I had to check several times to make sure this was not a joke.
But they actually want us to do this.
They want us to put in a backdoor for the government by January 31st for any kind of network service that's encrypted.
Encrypted web servers, SSH, you name it.
This backdoor must provide for, quote, immediate decryption or access to plain text of the data.
Now, the attorney general will publish technical requirements for such backdoors in network service and encryption products within five months after the president signs this bill.
They're going to try and time that for sweeps week so they can put it on the air as a comedy show or something.
I don't know.
That's, I mean, this is crazy.
Where are we going with this?
It's suddenly, it looks like we have a chance to work this out.
And then through these closed door meetings, it's like the people are going in there with an open mind and they're coming out like these walking zombies that speak in monotones and use their opposite hands.
You know, something's happening in that room.
I'd like to know what it is.
They're being told things that, I guess, scare them so much, you know, that they suddenly turn around.
I think they were showing the alien bodies.
Maybe so.
So, maybe so, or, I don't know.
I mean, there's nothing we did that would have done this, is there?
Not that I can imagine.
The thing that really surprises me is that, I don't know if they realize, but if we had to, if we or they or them, whoever they are, people that make crypto software, you know, the many days that there are,
if they had to build in back doors that were easy and simple enough for the FBI or law enforcement at large to use, then we might as well not even be using those utilities at all.
Well, now, they say that after the year 2000, it will still be legal for us to use what we use today.
But the nature of encryption is such that something that is strong, you know, five or ten years ago is not as strong in the future.
Is that fair to say?
Well, yeah.
I mean, in the general sense, but it really depends.
Right.
I mean, it depends how long the thing has been in existence in the first place.
It's scary.
And, you know, if you're not convinced by all this, consider this statement here, consider where it comes from, and tell me if this is not enough to convince you right there.
Representative Sonny Bono.
It's hard to say that, you know.
It's really hard to say that, but it's true.
So, Representative Sonny Bono, who was an ardent backer of the safe bill in the House Judiciary Committee, said he changed his mind and backed the amendment after learning more about the bill.
What do you think about that?
Wow.
It's really scary.
It's something.
It's something.
I mean, these people are just taken into, like, the back room and taught to think right or something.
I don't know.
Well, I don't think that's the real Sonny Bono.
Well, real, duplicate, does it really matter?
That's the Android Bono.
Yeah.
I don't know which one is scarier.
The Clinton administration has been pushing for a voluntary key recovery system.
Voluntary.
But, Lewis Free last week began floating the stronger proposal that would essentially require that all encrypted software contain a feature that would create a spare key or some other trapdoor allowing immediate decryption of any user's messages or files without the user's knowledge.
It would also require that Internet service providers ensure that encrypted communication transmitted over their lines could be instantly decoded.
Can't say I don't have time.
It's pretty frightening.
Have you seen much of this in newspapers, on the media, in any sense?
No, but I haven't seen much in the media, but I do remember seeing a movie that was very similar.
Do you remember a movie?
It was called, I don't remember if it was called Them, but it starred Roddy Piper from wrestling.
And he wasn't a wrestler in the movie.
But basically, he lived in a poor neighborhood in Los Angeles, and in a church, he found these sunglasses that basically, when you put them on, you could see what was really there.
And when he walked down the street, he saw on all the billboards, there were all these subliminal messages like obey and, you know, and all kinds of like really, really crazy stuff.
And the thing that it let you see also is who out of all the people on the street and the officials and the law enforcement people were them.
And them were apparently these people that were not human.
So then he'd find out who them were, and then he wrestled them?
No, he didn't actually wrestle them.
He tried to...
He should have wrestled them.
That's the only way to get them.
Well, he tried to convince as many people as possible who were us and who were them.
But at the end, he tried to transmit it from a television station.
Unfortunately, in the end, he got his brains blown out.
But that's all besides the point.
But yeah, it sounds like one of the...
It just seems funny that, like, we have people with names with free and good, and then we have something called security and freedom for...
It should be called security and freedom for everyone.
That's what it should be called.
Then it would sound genuinely boneheaded.
If my understanding of this is correct, the safe bill was a good bill when it started, but they somehow were able to turn it around and turn it into a bad bill.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't recall that happening recently.
You know, where something good turns into something bad.
Must be one of those Acme safes.
That doesn't quite work right.
I don't know.
A couple of interesting quotes here.
They say few people, this is from the New York Times, few people expect the free plan to ever become law, but the momentum his plan has gained on Capitol Hill this week has stunned civil libertarians, software makers, and the original safe sponsors.
This summer, they watched the safe bill sail through the House Judiciary and International Relations Committees, pick up more than 250 sponsors, and they left for the August break, confident of pushing it through the full House this fall.
That was when it was a good bill.
But, since Congress has returned from its August break, Louis Freeh and his agents have put on the full court press, holding a series of classified briefings from members and winning support that goes even farther than the voluntary key recovery plan in the Senate's McCain-Carrie encryption bill.
Repeatedly this week, congressmen have cited classified briefings as moving them to support the bill.
And Goodlatte and Lofgren, the original people that started safe, have sat on the sidelines watching safe co-sponsors vote against the bill.
American citizens have a right to their privacy and to their access to the freest possible markets, according to Porter Gross, a Florida Republican.
But they also have a right to their safety and security.
Terrorist groups that plot to blow up buildings, drug cartels that seek to poison our children, and those who proliferate in deadly chemical and biological weapons are all formidable opponents of peace and security in the global society.
And all avid users of encryption.
Well, the thing is, I mean, these people that set out to blow up buildings, when they're faced with having to break a law by using encryption that can't be cracked, that's going to stop them.
Absolutely. That's really going to do it. They'll turn around and lead the right kind of life then.
Anyway, they call them these bad actors. You know, that's what they're called, those people.
These bad actors must know that the United States law enforcement and national security agencies working under proper oversight will have the tools to frustrate.
That's real crazy talk there.
I think there are a lot of bad actors on this committee.
Well, get Sonny Bono to say something about that. He's an expert in that department.
He was a bad actor.
Oh, boy.
Lofgren, one of the original sponsors of the bill.
Actually, I'm sorry. Lofgren is not.
Who is Lofgren? This suddenly came in here.
Well, let's just assume we know who Lofgren is.
While emphasizing that she takes her oath of secrecy very seriously, questioned the necessity of the briefings of this topic.
There is nothing being said that couldn't be or hasn't been said in public, but in closed meetings, misleading statements aren't always corrected.
And actually, yes, Lofgren was one of the co-sponsors.
Yeah, along with good lad.
Yes, good lad.
Interesting.
So, it's scary. It's a pretty scary thing.
Any other scary news from you, Fiber?
No, that's the scariest thing I've heard in quite some time.
I haven't heard anything nearly as scary as the digital telephony bill being passed right when I got out of prison.
Right.
That was kind of scary.
It's funny how the same people that caved in on that are speaking out against this one.
You think they're going to cave in again?
Yeah, nah.
I don't know.
Unbelievable.
Yeah.
You've got to fight these things for yourself.
You can't expect other people out there to do everything for you.
You have to stand up and be counted.
And this is the time to do it.
So, I guess, stay in touch with the situation.
Read things on the net.
Read the newspapers.
If you don't see a story about it, try to find out why there's no stories about this.
And follow your elected representatives around like what?
I don't know.
Then, you know, them.
What's a good metaphor for following people around?
Just be their shadows.
You know, you have to know what they're up to and what kinds of things they're voting for.
Okay.
Next week, I believe, we're going to be doing a real audio broadcast again, which we haven't done in a while.
Is it going to be sponsored by Manos the Technician?
Well, that's just it.
We're looking on doing this on a more permanent basis.
Ah.
So, we have a special guest with us this week.
Actually, I don't know how I should introduce you, so introduce yourself.
Well, my name is Porkchop.
Okay.
I wasn't sure if you wanted me to call you that on the air.
Well.
Okay.
It's my name.
Porkchop.
All right.
What's your birth certificate?
I did real audio for Beyond Hope, and basically, I intend to do the same thing for Off the Hook.
I need help to do this.
I need volunteers.
Let me first tell you how you broadcast live real audio.
Basically, two machines are involved.
One is an encoder, and the other is a server.
However, the encoder compresses the audio to real audio format and sends the compressed stream to the server.
The server then collects that stream, sends it to anyone or the client who requests it.
What I need help with is encoding.
If you can attach your radio when you have a good reception of WBAI, you can just feed that directly into your computer, and your computer will encode it.
And it can send it over the internet to our server, which we have, and we have there on a permanent basis.
And we'll connect that to our website, maybe to the BAI website as well.
Now, what kind of computer is the minimum requirement for this?
Well, I only know Macintosh.
I guess for a Macintosh, 100 megahertz is pretty good, PPC.
For a Wintel machine, you can probably get by with 100 megahertz.
I haven't tried it, though.
We'll be testing this stuff out, and I'll know more at a later date when we've tried this a couple times over.
The encoder, you can download this free from realaudio.com, and if it runs, you can send me mail and volunteer to broadcast real audio from your computer.
My address is porkchop at 2600.com, and I look forward to hearing from all of you.
Cool.
And I guess right now we're looking at a T1 for the bandwidth, but if there are more people out there with T1s at their disposal, can we use them as well?
Absolutely.
So we can have many different T1s, maybe.
We can have many different T1s.
The server that we're going to be setting up, I believe, has 40 ports available, 40 concurrent users.
The T1 that is available to us, I believe, could theoretically hold about 90 users.
That may not happen, because, as you know, the Internet is a little funny.
Yes.
Okay, but this really won't affect people listening here, but it will affect your friends and loved ones who live in distant parts of the world.
That can also listen to the radio show now.
I can also call in, or hear you call in, or, you know, whatever.
The goal is to take over the entire planet.
Right?
That's right.
Right, Fiber?
Right.
Okay.
Hack the planet.
Yes, things are moving along, just as we had planned.
All right.
Let's take some phone calls.
212-279-3400.
Thanks, Port Shop, for coming in and for doing all this.
Hopefully it'll work out.
Here's an interesting story from, well, it's from New Jersey, but it has to do with Pakistan.
You know, you know those kind of stories.
Police here have pulled the plug on a scheme in which Union and Middlesex County residents
allegedly made free long-distance calls to Pakistan on a paid telephone.
What do you think about that?
Say it ain't so.
They found that the phone had been rigged so that a six-digit code allowed callers to
contact relatives in Pakistan without having to pay.
Officers' suspicions were aroused when they saw 15 people standing in line at around midnight
recently on an otherwise deserted street corner to use the phone.
That'll do it right there.
I would call that a clue.
I don't understand, though.
What, a six-digit code on one paid phone just to call Pakistan?
I don't really, it sounds more like using a six-digit calling card of some sort.
Yeah, but they were all lined up on one pay phone.
So it had to be endemic to the pay phone.
Well, one would think, but we don't know very much anything about that pay phone.
What kind of six-digit code would they be entering?
I have no idea.
It's kind of weird.
The calls stopped September 4th after police interrogated callers and would-be callers,
most of whom were from the Islin section of Woodbridge, Edison, and Roselle Park.
It's amazing how much I don't know about New Jersey.
The late-night calls were popular because of a difference of 10 time zones.
Bet you didn't know about that.
That's a lot of time zones.
It sure is.
According to a police report, an informant later told authorities that the code had been circulating
for about a month.
None of the callers was arrested.
Instead, police let them off with warnings that the calls were illegal.
And don't ever call home again.
Investigators are now trying to determine who is responsible for rewiring or reprogramming
the telephone.
Rewiring or reprogramming.
That's an interesting one.
Rich Blasey, a spokesman for AT&T, said the company is also investigating the alleged pay
phone scheme.
He said telephone scams also have been used recently to make free calls to the Caribbean
and Colombia.
Boy, he's...
He's on top of things.
On top of things there.
Of course, those kind of scams may have nothing to do with this kind of a scam.
Hey, talk about scams, okay?
Did I tell you about the ticket I got back in July?
Uh, I don't know.
I took my car out of the garage.
It had been sitting there for about three months.
Hadn't used it once.
All right?
And as I'm driving out, I notice, hey, one of my headlights must have burned out spontaneously
while it was parked.
Wouldn't you know it?
Within two minutes, I get pulled over.
I mean, these people are good.
They're just out there waiting for these kind of crimes to occur.
And they got me immediately, you know, for a broken headlight.
And, you know, the guy was very pleasant about it.
He said, look, this isn't a big deal, but you should know your headlight's out.
If you get it fixed before the next, you know, the next sunset of the next business day...
You won't have to leave town.
Right, exactly.
The ticket's waived.
Everybody goes about their business.
This was on a Saturday night.
So, now, Sunday doesn't count.
Saturday does count as business day, but Sunday does not.
So, I had to get it fixed by Monday, which I did.
Got it fixed on Monday, filled out the little form that he gave me, sent it in, and that's
the end of it.
Mid-August comes, and I get something back from the people up in Albany saying, sorry,
you have to come in for this.
We can't handle it through the mail.
And I'm like, okay, I got to walk in to tell them that I fixed the thing.
It's kind of stupid, but I guess I'll do it.
So, I went in this past week to take care of this thing.
And, according to the judge, the judge says they cannot dismiss this because the ticket
says insufficient headlights, meaning insufficient headlights, two lights, no lights, meaning you
had no lights at all.
Not just one light.
Can you believe this?
So, now, I have to go to trial in December to defend myself against this.
Now, I even went to the police station to ask them about this, and they had a good time
laughing about it.
They said, these people are idiots.
It's a totally different law that, you know, that should have been written down if it was
two headlights, like a felony.
You would have gotten that pink ticket, not a yellow one, you know?
And so, then I, you know, I have to give them money, not the police, the people in the
traffic court.
I have to give them a bond, otherwise they're going to suspend my license, because this is
like, you know, this happened in July.
And then they print out on this little computer thing, you know, what the offense is.
They changed the offense.
Now, it's operating with no headlights.
It's like in the computer as I operated with no headlights.
Can you believe that?
Because the judge apparently thinks that's what happened, even though the cop never said
that's what happened.
Now, what do you think the chances are, after I drag this poor cop down to court in December,
that he's going to remember whether I had one or two lights out in July, you know?
I think he's going to be kind of upset.
Yeah, it's going to be highly unlikely that he'll remember.
That's a scam.
That's a scam, because, I don't know, I feel myself being railroaded into something.
So, if anyone out there is familiar with New York State Traffic and Vehicle Code, if they
know what the difference is between what you get for one headlight out and what you get
for two headlights out, it would be very helpful.
I can enter it as evidence when the date comes up.
Well, I think you learned an interesting lesson.
Yeah, don't drive my car ever.
No, if you ever need a policeman in case of emergency, knock out one of your headlights
and drive around.
Yeah, that does tend to work.
Look, the guy was so nice, too.
That's what's ironic about this, you know?
I hate to put them into trouble, but I'm damned if I'm going to be labeled a felon for, you
know, for having two headlights out.
I don't know if I'd be labeled a felon, but they said it's a felony.
Huh.
The cops at the precinct said that.
A felony?
Wow.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I just have the feeling that things are starting down a road that I can't turn around on.
No, you're already on the wrong path.
One-way road to a dead end.
That's what I'm on.
All right.
212-279-3400.
Let's see who's out there.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
How you doing?
Anytime I think that.
Yeah, hi, guys.
How you doing?
Okay.
A couple of things I want to talk to you about.
I don't know if you know there's a new law that they're trying to get out.
That's a conjuncture with this.
Which new law is this?
Scanner laws.
Oh, yes, of course.
They want to get rid of all scanners, and you can't listen to anything outside of amateur
radio or CB.
That means if you have a scanner that goes on 46 to 49 megs, that will be outlawed because
it's cordless telephones around that frequency.
And they also want you to stop you from listening to the 450 to 460 band, which has any kind
of police activity or studio to remote.
Okay, in the new issue of 2600, the summer issue, we listed all those frequencies.
Let me just go over them now.
And this comes from our friend Edward Markey.
Remember him?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, Congressman Markey up in Massachusetts there, a Democrat.
Introduced HR-1964.
It expands the prohibited frequencies to include commercial mobile radio service.
Decoders that convert digital, commercial, mobile transmissions to analog voice audio will
also be banned on radios.
So we're talking about 929 to 930, 931 to 932, 30.76 to 3124, a bunch in the 400s, a bunch
in the 100s.
I mean, it'll take forever to read all these, but it was 800 megahertz, and now it's expanding
all over the place.
Well, what they want to do, they want to get rid of receivers like they have in England
and other places where you've got to pay a tax to have this kind of stuff.
Now, anyone who wants to use a service monitor, if you know what that is, it's a piece of
equipment for measuring signal strength and doing, tuning up pieces of equipment, you
will need a special license to get that.
Uh-huh.
And they want to fingerprint you before you can buy this kind of equipment.
They want to fingerprint you?
Yes.
This is another thing that's coming out.
The American Radio Relay, they get fighting it.
I don't know about this.
Or look at the QSP, because they had a whole article in the last couple of months, and it's
saying that the manufacturers will have to make radio that can't go nowhere, and it's
going to be almost impossible.
Okay, now, I've just been handed something from the Monitoring Times website.
This is about H.R.
2369, a whole other one.
The broadest sweeping anti-scanner bill ever written in the name of privacy protection
that literally enforced, if literally enforced, it would virtually eliminate the scanner industry
and impact on the shortwave and satellite communities as well.
Even a generous interpretation forbids reception of frequencies used by NASCAR teams, removes
police and fire communications in some communities, and affects agencies such as the Civil Air Patrol
and MDASH communications, which the public uses on the job and community volunteer work
for entertainment, for education.
Penalty?
Up to a $500,000 fine in five years in prison.
Unbelievable.
And no provision is made for grandfathering and older receivers.
Yes.
So check out Monitoring Times.
I know, they're going to say every receiver you have is going to be out loud.
They'll never be able to do it.
They can't stop drugs, and they can't stop this.
They're going to ride around through neighborhoods and listen to local oscillators, because you
could check if you have a receiver by looking at the local oscillator.
Right.
And it's ridiculous because, oh, by the way, if you want to know, those people that were
arrested for listening to the mayor stuff, if you looked at it, all that equipment did
not belong to them.
Somebody got that equipment, and he ain't got that equipment.
I have a friend who knows these people very well.
He's in the paging business, and he said this was a DA who made a picture up of all
this equipment that didn't belong to these guys.
These guys did not have that equipment.
No, I have heard that from several sources.
This is definite.
That press conference was ridiculous, where they had all this equipment saying that Breaking
News Network did all this, and it was, what, one little piece of equipment that was
theirs?
And what was that?
It wasn't even an R7000.
The R7000 that they got there, that belonged to somebody in the DA's office.
Uh-huh.
Unbelievable.
This was a real setup.
By the way, it was a past employee that was disgruntled.
This is definite information.
Let me tell you, the fellow who I spoke to works at one of the paging companies.
I won't mention his name.
And he said that the city of New York was doing something so stupid that they were using
this for emergency communications.
He said they could have been sued because pagers are not reliable.
They're not reliable.
And you don't know if you're going to get a...
There's no handshaking.
So they were dispatching people to emergencies.
You don't dispatch people by pagers.
No, of course not.
You have to use a two-way radio or some kind of feedback communication.
They're not reliable.
They're not private.
And they're certainly not appropriate for that kind of a thing.
And when people are able to listen in, it's no surprise.
I mean, we've known this for years.
We use our pagers, you know, with discretion.
And people in high positions should as well.
Sir, thank you very much for calling and for rubbing up your eyes.
One of the comments I make, please.
Yes, yes.
One of the companies was making a chip that reads the code that no longer can make that chip.
People are using this chip to, let's say, turn on remote control stuff.
If you set down a page, you can turn on a device if you decode the Pascal, you know, the code.
They no longer can make that chip.
For what reason?
Because the FCC said that's a non-permitted device.
Really?
Just for your information.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
Bye.
All right.
It's pretty scary.
Now, some sites to check out, or a site to check out is www.grove.net, G-R-O-V-E.net.
And they're the publishers of Monitoring Times, which is a really cool magazine as far as scanner and privacy issues.
There's pieces in there about HR-1964 and HR-2369.
There's especially an editorial and a lot of details about this in the September 97 edition of Monitoring Times, page 30.
So, it just seems like, you know, little by little, in significant steps, these scary things are happening.
Manuel, I have bad news for you.
What's that?
Don't tell me.
What?
I don't know.
Just tell me what.
You're no longer allowed to look at green.
I can't look at green anymore?
No.
That frequency is totally off-limits to you.
Oh, boy.
Well, all right.
That's fair, though.
I mean, they have the right to legislate things like that.
It's part of the electromagnetic spectrum, after all.
Well, if the FCC says it, then it's true.
Oh, boy.
Okay.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Okay.
That was your radio that you heard there in the background for a second.
But, folks, when I pick up the phone, you should be on the phone, not another part of the room.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Okay.
You know, I'm wondering if the same thing is happening.
No, I don't think so, because I think I heard somebody breathing there.
Or, okay, let's give everybody a chance to recover from whatever, you know, I guess everyone's in shock from all the things we've told them, you know?
Yeah, it's pretty scary when you realize that these horrible things are becoming true, you know?
It's like Babylon 5 becoming real or something, but it's happening, all right?
It's happening right in front of us, and we can still do something about it, but we have to wake up.
Literally, those of you on the phone, wake up.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi.
How are you doing?
I know you may have mentioned this on the air before.
Is it legal to charge for 800 numbers?
No.
I mean, there are places that will do that.
You know, you can be charged through an 800 number.
You can use your credit card.
You can use a calling card number.
But to actually call the 800 number, a lot of companies bill you for a collect call, even though you never got a collect call.
Right.
They bill you for a third number call, or they put some sort of monthly thing on your phone bill.
It is illegal, but companies like AT&T still do it.
If you call their TDD number and request information using, you know, one of those pieces of equipment that deaf people use, they will not tell you that they're going to charge you for a call to information.
It will just show up on your bill, even though you've just called an 800 number.
What I'm thinking of is a public phone.
Now, there are, like, on Long Island, there are two or three phones that I've gone to, and I've been trying to use my telephone card that I buy just to make an 800 number.
And they tell me you've got to put in a buck.
Oh, well, you're probably using a CoCut, which is a non-9X, non-Bell Atlantic pay phone.
And what you're running into there, you're running into a local phone.
Okay, I misunderstood what you meant.
There are some companies that you call on an 800 number that will charge you, which is illegal.
Like the Psychic Hotline.
Yeah, the Psychic Hotline, people like that.
But there are also phones that will try to charge you to call an 800 number or to call anything that should be free.
And is that legal?
No, that's illegal.
That's totally illegal.
What you should do is report the location of that phone.
Yeah, who do I report that to?
You know, ironically enough, there should be a number on the phone.
That's legal, too.
I mean, it's illegal not to have that number on there to complain to if something is wrong.
If it's not on that phone, it should be on any 9X phone or Bell Atlantic phone.
Right.
And if you can't find it there, look in front of your phone book.
Right.
I've never encountered that on a 9X phone, by the way.
No, you shouldn't, because it's supposed to be, you know, toll-free numbers mean you're not supposed to pay for them.
Right.
You know, it's funny, though, increasing number of places you wind up paying.
On cellular phones, you wind up paying for 800 numbers.
Yeah.
You know, we have a very strange definition of toll-free.
With cellular phones, you've got to pay for any call you make, isn't that true?
Yes, it's interesting, because I've been studying my Omnipoint bill, and there are quite a few little weird things.
Like, they had that penny-a-minute deal on the weekends, but if you called another Omnipoint phone, it was 25 cents a minute, not a penny a minute.
If you received a phone call, it was 25 cents a minute, not a penny a minute.
So, it would actually be cheaper for you to call somebody, you know, far away, like, not on a regular, you know, GSM phone.
Right.
Or to receive, you know, you don't want to receive a call, because that's more expensive.
That's, you know, 24 cents more per minute.
Right.
Than to make a call to a regular phone, not a cell phone.
A lot of people have gotten pissed at me for calling their cell phones.
Yeah, well...
So, I'm like, I use it with a lot of discretion when I call a cell phone.
One day, that'll probably stop, but I don't see it anytime soon.
Okay, thanks.
Thanks for calling.
Any new Omnipoint tidbits, Fiber?
No, I don't think I have any nifty Omnipoint tips this week.
Uh-huh.
Nothing new has surfaced.
Yeah.
Have you figured out anything new?
Well, I was interested in one thing.
When you're on the voicemail system, when you're getting your messages,
there's an option there to make a call.
Right.
You can just make a call from anywhere.
You can call into the voicemail system, enter your password,
and making a call is an option.
Right.
So, now, how does that call made?
Is it made over their network?
Is it made over a regular, you know, telephone network?
It's made over the LAN network.
The LAN network.
So, what kind of price do they give you?
It's the same price as if you made it from your phone.
But that's much more expensive than what they pay.
Much more expensive.
Well, yeah.
So, my recommendation is to not make a call through voicemail.
Why would anybody in their right mind do that?
And what's the option for?
That's what I can't figure out.
I've never found any real application other than, oh, let's just say, for example,
that you're in voicemail.
Mm-hmm.
You just got a call from somebody, a message.
Right.
And you just read that message.
You just listened to it, rather.
Right.
And you want to call that person back right away.
Yeah, but the funny thing is, there is no option to say, call this person back.
You have to go to, I think, option nine and then enter the number yourself.
Yeah, I know.
I could see it being worthwhile if they could, you just hit one button and it instantly calls
them.
That would be kind of cool.
Yeah.
I think, ultimately, they're supposed to do that.
Mm-hmm.
They just haven't yet.
I see.
I've experimented with that, though, to see where it's coming from, and they come out
as out of area.
Right, yeah.
Except, if you call an Omnipoint phone, though, the caller ID privacy will be ignored or, you
know, I guess it won't be sent in that case if they come from out of area.
Is that right?
Well, I mean, I don't, I'm not sure exactly what number it would be coming from anyway,
even if you could see where it was coming from.
Right.
Well, they're coming from some place that does not seem to have caller ID, which I think
is kind of unusual.
And the other interesting thing, once when I called information, you know, you call Omnipoint
information.
Right.
Which, you know, I guess you get the same person no matter where you call, as long as
you call from that phone, you call 555-1212.
Once I tried to get a phone number for something, and they couldn't find it.
They knew it was there, but they couldn't find it.
So they said, look, we're going to find this thing.
If it's the last thing we do, we're going to find this thing, we're going to call you
back.
And they had my number already, obviously.
Right.
So I'm like, okay, yeah, whatever.
So about an hour later, they called me back with the number.
Of course, you know, by then, it was long past the time I needed the number.
Yeah.
And it's kind of funny.
I had to pay for the call coming in.
I had to pay for the call going out.
But no one talks about those things.
So they gave me the number.
I got the number.
But I also got their number.
Oh.
I got their phone number.
And I wrote it down.
And I called it the other day.
And you know who answered?
Who?
Cellular One.
Really?
Cellular One picked up the phone.
Huh.
What do you make of that?
I would be willing to guess that the people that they hired to do the directory assistance
is probably not within the coverage area of Omnipoint.
Yes.
That would seem to be so.
That would be my hypothesis.
So that was an interesting little exercise there.
But the thing people need to remember is that if you call an Omnipoint phone, caller ID is...
But the privacy information is ignored.
Now, star six, seven, all you like.
It's still going to be passed along.
Except in some cases.
I noticed some people calling...
They seem to be fixing that more and more.
I don't know if they're fixing it or if certain places are just outwitting it somehow.
If somebody calls from a switchboard, I won't say what switchboard, but there's a particular
switchboard in New York where somebody called me and the number did not show up.
It only shows up in voicemail.
It doesn't show up on your phone.
Right.
It'll show up on your phone if privacy is not blocked.
But if privacy is blocked, it won't show up on your phone.
It will show up if they leave a message on voicemail.
So, the interesting thing is, when this person called me from the switchboard in New York,
it didn't show up on voicemail either.
And obviously, New York has caller ID.
Right.
So, something there, maybe they're using some funky, you know, line from some other part
of the country somehow.
I don't know, but more and more I'm noticing that in voicemail, I'm not getting people's numbers.
Really?
Yeah, and I don't know exactly what's different unless they are taking steps to correct that
at Omnipoint.
Well, I mean, you think it's a mistake.
You think it's something intentional.
It may be something intentional.
Word may have gotten back to them that they were ignoring the privacy information on the
voicemail system.
We have a witness who wants to remain anonymous that says that this is intentional on Omnipoint's
part.
Go ahead.
I'm an anonymous person.
We've disguised your voice, so you won't be recognized.
Go ahead.
Oh, good.
I don't like for people to recognize my voice.
Okay.
Go ahead.
It's meant to be like that.
I spoke to some of the technicians there.
They say it's part of the feature that allows you to, what is it, the auto-reply?
Uh-huh.
So...
But auto-reply only replies to voicemail boxes.
It doesn't reply to phone numbers.
No, no.
I mean like the auto-callback.
Oh, auto-callback.
Okay, but if that's the case, then how come the number doesn't show up when they call
you as well?
It only shows up on voicemail.
Well, because it was meant for the auto-callback for, you know, you get a voicemail message.
Uh-huh.
I'm going to call them back right away.
Right, but if you get a missed call, too, it also tells you do you want to call back.
You know, you can do it there as well.
Well, that's a missed call.
Okay, but can't you call back a missed call, too?
Yeah, you can, but...
Just the same way.
You hit yes.
I'm not saying it's logical or anything.
But they meant it to be like that.
But it's scary, is what it is, because people think they're calling somebody, and all you
have to do is forward.
You know, if you think, okay, it's an Omnipoint exchange, we can, you know, just not call.
Omnipoint exchange is wrong.
If you call a phone number that forwards to an Omnipoint phone, you'll never know.
Yeah, well, yeah, I like it.
I do, too.
It's kind of fun, you know, but as a caller, I don't really like it that much.
Fyber, you consider it a feature.
Yeah, I've considered it a feature from the beginning, and I'd hate to see it go away.
Yeah.
Well, then what's the point of Star 6-7?
Oh, don't call Omnipoint customers.
Yeah, but if Omnipoint can do it, what's to stop some other phone company from doing it?
Oh, this is true.
Yeah, so what's the point of Star 6-7?
Oh, I think if you don't like it, you should just buy your own Switch and ignore the privacy.
Okay, buy your own Switch.
All right, that's the solution, then.
Okay, 212-279-3400.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Thank you for picking up my call.
No problem.
Thank you for answering.
Oh, what is your position on the antennas debate?
Especially, did you hear the news this evening in which they reported, a woman was reporting,
that microwave transmission from cellular phones affected electric wheelchairs?
I've heard rumors to that effect.
In fact, it has been documented in the past that some cellular frequencies were able to do that, and microwave frequencies.
People don't really know what they're capable of doing.
Well, the reason that I was giving her credence was that she was, A, she was pretty detailed, and she's got this whole campaign going that if this city,
the city already passed the ordinance that they were going to rent these lampposts out.
Is that correct?
I believe the city is giving a lot of public space to companies like Omnipoint, yes.
Right, well, she said that public boards still had some kind of sway, and that she was going to go, you know, start each public board in the city, which is pretty massive.
But the concern is that the reason that I was giving her credence is that she said that the wheelchair, she contacted all the wheelchair companies,
and they were actually trying to lead line the chairs, but what they found out was that the lead was so heavy that they, you know, the chairs were flipping over.
Oh, that's bad.
So that doesn't work.
No.
So is there a position that you all have around, or do you have any concerns around that?
My personal position is that there certainly should have been a lot more study done of this.
I mean, people don't really know.
Everyone sort of hopes that there aren't going to be major health concerns.
I think you have more to worry about holding a phone to your ear and talking for long periods of time and transmitting something right next to your head like that,
rather than all the transmitters around, because those transmitters that are going up everywhere are very, very low power.
And I can attest to that because a number of times my signal gets lost.
The transmitters on top of the Empire State Building, for instance, are much, much more powerful.
Things on top of poles are more powerful.
These things are very, very, you know, low power.
That's not to say that they might not be dangerous.
I think, you know, thorough medical studies need to be done on this, and maybe they have been, but I have not heard the details.
And I've, you know, I've asked around.
Farber, I think when you first got your phone, they advised you not to use it very much, right?
No, actually, there's a disclaimer in the manual, and I think it's in the manual of every cellular phone, that says not to use the phone for very long periods of time on the order of hours and hours.
Well, once again, see, we're letting companies get off the hook as we, quote-unquote, march down the technological highway.
What is it, the African-American CEO, Reggie, whatever his name was, who won't beat just food, they said that that added to his brain cancer at one point.
No one's ever done any extensive surveys.
My concern about the low power, the wrap on that is that the proximity to the individual, if you're, like, if your windows, if you're at a third-floor level and you're right across from the antenna, that's what that's supposed to be about, not so much that it's being directed directly down on.
That's a very good point, because if your landlord says, hey, I'm going to make an extra thousand bucks a month by renting an antenna space down the point or something like that, how is that going to affect somebody who's a few feet away from where they decide to put the antenna?
That's a very good point.
I think that the point that's even more important is that, A, yes, we should be able to communicate, but it's obvious to everyone that the communications industry has moved from everyone being able to exchange information for a price to, let's get the price, and if they get some communication, that's nice, too.
And we need to hold their feet to the fire.
It's just a matter of how would you go about organizing that and getting these people to be more responsible, because they don't care whether you live or die.
Well, I think there's already the organization in place.
I mean, certainly we can help provide some of the technical expertise, but tenants groups already exist.
They've already done quite a bit to secure their rights as far as rent control and things like that.
In fact, the program following this one certainly deals with those issues quite a bit, and maybe that's a question to ask there as well,
because if those people get united in either opposition or support or whatever, just getting the information straight and making sure that it gets out there,
I think that is the key to making sure that people's rights aren't violated.
Okay, then the last point would be, do you envision, or is there any other way that we could increase mobile communications without,
or figure out a better antenna system, transmission and receiving system, than what's currently there?
If I read, do you have anything that might be better than this?
No, unfortunately, Nikola Tesla's dead, so anything he may have come up with is forever lost,
since he didn't write many of the things down that he discovered.
Well, I had a long discussion with a Bell Atlantic engineer about your T-1 and the explosion of the alarm circuits,
so hopefully he'll bombard Bell Atlantic with requests for alarm circuits for T-1s and push them to go asynchronous and see what they do.
And I really enjoy your program, and thanks a lot.
All right, thanks for calling.
Emmanuel, I want to interject about the wheelchair situation.
To me, it seems, unless you just stepped off of a time machine from the 1940s,
you don't need to shield electromagnetic interference with lead.
That sounds just a tad ridiculous.
It's typically sufficient to shield electromagnetic interference using very light metals.
The technical term would be a Faraday cage, which is basically, in layman's terms, a really expensive chicken wire
to line all of the electronic housing and wiring and so on.
And in the government, it's known as tempest shielding.
If it was a high enough grade, I seriously doubt that that high a grade of shielding is necessary
to shield the electronic components in wheelchairs, which are going to be relatively simple, from mobile phones.
But for the wheelchair companies to come back and say they couldn't shield the wheelchairs
because the lead made them too heavy,
I think they have too much lead in their diet for them to have made a statement like that.
Okay, well, hopefully you've helped a lot of our listeners from tipping over in their wheelchairs now
with that handy little bit of advice.
But, you know, the thing I'm thinking of is, you know, if it's doing that to the wheelchairs,
what's it doing to us, you know?
We can't shield ourselves quite the same way.
Well, yeah, this may be true.
I mean, the whole point, really, I guess, is that no one can prove that they've dropped dead
from holding a phone next to their head too long.
Well, how do you prove something like that?
It's kind of difficult.
I don't know. Some kind of test dummy? I don't know.
How do you show something like that? Lab rat?
I don't know. I think we'll have a lot of examples pretty soon.
Let's see if we can take one more phone call.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Something like that. Lab rat?
Go ahead. Speak up, please.
Yeah, 2,600.
It was off the hook.
Off the hook. How are you doing?
Where are you going?
This is the original Dr. Z.
Original Dr. Z. You have your radio up really loud.
I'm sorry. Yeah.
Okay. The original Dr. Z.
Hey.
Okay. What's on your mind in about the one minute we have left?
Okay. I just want to let you know that, first of all, there's been a lot of studies done
on microwave interference and even extended low-frequency interference.
Your radio's still too loud.
Uh, I'm sorry. I have it in the other room and I can't get access to it because I'm transmitting
through a satellite down to a ground station through the internet and back to you.
I see. Where exactly are you calling from?
I'm calling from somewhere on Long Island.
Okay. That's all we need to know.
Okay. So, make it quick.
Okay. I just want to let you know that it not only affects wheelchairs, so to speak, but
pacemakers, hearing aids, you name it.
And, um, you know, working with microwave, um, uh, with the, uh, at the level that I do,
uh, I do notice that there is, uh, interference in, uh, uh, animals, uh, animal behavior and
so forth. And I think that that should be taken into consideration and, uh, some legislation
should be passed.
Well, I definitely think there should be some very, uh, you know, very strong studies
in this, uh, in this field so we know exactly what we're talking about. Because right now,
I don't think they're, they're paying enough attention to that. They want to make a quick
buck. They want to, you know, get these phones in everybody's hands, but we don't really know
what the effect is. And I'm not against the technology. I just think that we should be
educated about it.
That's correct. That's absolutely correct. And there are, you know, even at lower frequencies,
there are many harmonics and those harmonics could be synchronized to a clock circuit and
it can be, you know, in a computer-based control system that's vital to, uh, medical, uh, medical
equipment. And, uh, that can be devastating.
Right. Listen, thanks for calling in. We're out of time.
Okay. Thank you.
All right. Take care.
Have a nice day.
You too.
All right.
And, uh, we're going to have to end it there. Hopefully, uh, hopefully we're not hurting ourselves
too much with this technology, but it would be nice to know. Either way,
keep checking in with us every decade or so, and we'll let you know how we're doing.
Fair enough?
Sounds good.
All right. Farber, you'll be here next week, right?
Yes, I should be.
Okay, good. Uh, well, until then, have a, have a good week.
Okay.
And stay away from evil microwaves.
I'll try.
All right. Until then, this is Emmanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook.
Stay tuned for Housing Notebook. Have a good night.
Thank you.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
From Billy Bom, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
From Billy Bom!
There is one place in Johannesburg where women also lead the praise during Jumu'ah for men and women.
And this is the only place in the world.
That's the voice of South African Muslim leader Fareed Isak.
Hi, I'm Barbara Nimri-Aziz, and Isak is one of my guests on Arab Voices' Crescent Rising in September.
We'll also hear from Michael Marin, author of Road to Hell, about abuse and corruption in the international charity business.
And Anissa Bouzian will review contemporary Algerian films.
So join us with guest hosts Safia Bukhari and Jabal Faye.
That's all here on Arab Voice Crescent Rising, Saturdays at 3 p.m. on WBAI 99.5 FM, listener-sponsored radio in New York.
All of this country will rise again And I can feel the spirit
HomePod is the Absolute共-R
But I'll be there on Arab Voices' Crescent Rising, Saturdays at 3 p.m. on Roodoo preview.
I miss you tonight.