Off The Hook - 1997-12-02

[00:01.070 --> 00:03.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: From 7 to 10 p.m.
[00:03.530 --> 00:08.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: at the Metropolitan Pavilion, 110 West 19th Street at 6th Avenue.
[00:21.500 --> 00:23.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Friday, December 12th at midnight.
[00:23.540 --> 00:28.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Tune in to WBAI for a special we are calling Recordings and Theories.
[00:28.640 --> 00:36.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Join Violet, the organ grinder, what time is it, Anastasia, myself, Teef and the Patterson's taking a train to Tibet, and Jay Smooth at the radio controls.
[00:36.540 --> 00:40.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah, the Creative Unity Collective might even be stopping by, we'll see.
[00:41.680 --> 00:45.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's midnight, Friday, December 12th, only on 99.5 FM.
[00:46.960 --> 00:48.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Always rocking to the envelope.
[00:54.900 --> 01:01.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you're listening to one of the many things that Rudy definitely will not take credit for, WBAI New York.
[01:03.420 --> 01:04.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Time now for Off the Hook.
[01:33.270 --> 01:38.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: And a very
[02:47.990 --> 02:48.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: good evening to everybody.
[02:48.890 --> 02:51.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein with another exciting edition...
[02:53.910 --> 02:55.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: of Off the Hook.
[03:15.750 --> 03:24.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: And special greetings to everybody who is listening from around the planet, over on the Internet, and to our listeners at 99.5 FM in New York City.
[03:25.690 --> 03:36.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we are here tonight with Phiber Optik, among other people, who are standing by to give us the latest news in the world of high technology.
[03:36.570 --> 03:37.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: What do you think of that, Phiber?
[03:37.750 --> 03:39.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: A former Fed on before us now.
[03:39.750 --> 03:40.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Isn't that amazing?
[03:41.250 --> 03:42.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who's the former Fed?
[03:42.190 --> 03:43.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: The guy that was just here.
[03:44.430 --> 03:45.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: The guy that was just here on the show.
[03:46.230 --> 03:46.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Which guy?
[03:46.950 --> 03:49.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: The guy that did the show before us.
[03:49.670 --> 03:50.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Michael Levine, expert witness.
[03:51.070 --> 03:52.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: You were talking there for like 25 minutes before.
[03:54.110 --> 03:54.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: What?
[03:54.830 --> 03:56.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh boy, okay, well...
[03:57.610 --> 04:02.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ever since you got off probation, you've been a lot, you know, less concentrated, let's put it that way.
[04:02.750 --> 04:08.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, all right, well, yeah, the former Fed, this guy was a former agent for all different types of agencies.
[04:08.890 --> 04:09.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Who, FBI?
[04:09.970 --> 04:14.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: All, yeah, DEA, FBI, NSA, CBS, everything.
[04:14.790 --> 04:15.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: You name it.
[04:16.470 --> 04:23.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: And a couple of programming notes for people who listen to shows other than this one, and hopefully there are a lot of you.
[04:25.850 --> 04:29.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Housing Notebook with Scott Sommer, who usually follows us, will not be following us.
[04:29.470 --> 04:39.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it will be following us, but just a long time after us, Thursday night at 7 p.m., Arab Voices will follow us from now on, Tuesdays at 9.
[04:39.250 --> 04:43.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, expert witness at 7, off the hook at 8, Arab Voices at 9.
[04:43.530 --> 04:47.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, it's quite a lineup here on WBAI.
[04:47.930 --> 04:50.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: And anything new in your exciting world there, Phiber?
[04:51.050 --> 04:51.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, um...
[04:51.650 --> 04:53.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Besides unwittingly talking to feds.
[04:53.590 --> 04:55.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's so many things, it's hard to know where to begin.
[04:55.850 --> 04:56.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[04:57.790 --> 05:04.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: There was, uh, somebody sent us, uh, information on, uh, ADSL coming from Birmingham, Alabama.
[05:04.330 --> 05:04.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I saw that.
[05:04.950 --> 05:08.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: I didn't get a chance to print that out, though, because that just came in as I was flying out the door.
[05:08.390 --> 05:08.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[05:08.870 --> 05:12.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, but, uh, I don't know, did you read it?
[05:12.150 --> 05:12.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[05:12.510 --> 05:13.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, actually, uh...
[05:13.630 --> 05:15.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Everyone's sending us ADSL information from all over the country.
[05:16.810 --> 05:24.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, we've, uh, turned into a regular, uh, repository for, uh, where people can get ADSL knowing full well that we can't.
[05:24.150 --> 05:26.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: A conduit of information, if you will.
[05:26.490 --> 05:27.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: A veritable well of knowledge.
[05:28.010 --> 05:28.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[05:28.570 --> 05:37.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, anyway, um, this, uh, this individual in, uh, Birmingham, which is, uh, handled by BellSouth, uh, a.k.a.
[05:37.730 --> 05:52.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: BellSouth.net, and, uh, he was, uh, happy to find that he could get ADSL in his area, although he wasn't as pleased with the throughput, which, uh, I guess is understandable considering it's still in, uh, trial stage.
[05:52.630 --> 05:52.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[05:53.010 --> 06:06.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, the, uh, local advertisements were boasting T1 speeds, 1.5 megabits, and he saw approximately, uh, 300 kilobits, uh, incoming, and 150, about half that, outgoing.
[06:06.850 --> 06:07.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[06:07.110 --> 06:09.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, which he said was still a hell of a lot faster.
[06:09.390 --> 06:11.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, when you say, we can say hell on the air, right?
[06:11.370 --> 06:13.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, yeah, we can.
[06:13.210 --> 06:13.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, good.
[06:13.650 --> 06:17.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, uh, the words, there's a shorter list of words we can say, and that's on that list.
[06:17.790 --> 06:18.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, okay.
[06:18.310 --> 06:19.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a lot of words we can't say.
[06:19.670 --> 06:19.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[06:20.030 --> 06:21.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it's a hell of a lot faster than...
[06:21.610 --> 06:23.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, we're not supposed to talk about this either, I'm told.
[06:23.670 --> 06:30.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, so it's a heck of a lot faster than, than, say, you know, obviously a modem or ISDN.
[06:30.450 --> 06:32.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: So he was pleased with it, with that much.
[06:33.010 --> 06:39.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, the, obviously, obviously the other benefit is that it's only $29.95 a month in his area.
[06:39.550 --> 06:41.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: But there was an added benefit.
[06:41.370 --> 06:41.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[06:41.670 --> 06:43.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Can you guess what the added benefit was?
[06:43.090 --> 06:44.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, health insurance.
[06:44.570 --> 06:44.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[06:45.090 --> 06:57.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: He found out when the Bell South employee was there to hook him up to ADSL, all the guy really did is come over, pop a card in his computer, and plug him into an ADSL jack.
[06:57.630 --> 06:58.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's it.
[06:58.270 --> 07:00.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: He didn't contact Bell South.
[07:00.470 --> 07:01.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: So this person...
[07:01.570 --> 07:03.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: He didn't disconnect him from something else that he needed.
[07:03.390 --> 07:05.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, that's, that's kind of like standard procedure for Bell Atlantic.
[07:06.170 --> 07:08.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, well, that, that's a different story.
[07:08.310 --> 07:08.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[07:08.550 --> 07:17.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, um, the interesting part is that with a little further poking, this person found out that everyone in his area automatically had ADSL.
[07:18.070 --> 07:18.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, really?
[07:19.050 --> 07:19.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[07:19.550 --> 07:21.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is in Birmingham, Alabama?
[07:21.030 --> 07:21.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Birmingham, Alabama.
[07:21.970 --> 07:26.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you're in the ADSL trial area, you have ADSL right now.
[07:26.390 --> 07:28.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't pay the $29.95 a month.
[07:28.430 --> 07:34.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: All you have to do is possibly run a line and just jack into it.
[07:34.770 --> 07:39.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, you need some ADSL hardware, which can be rather pricey, uh, in excess of $1,000.
[07:40.190 --> 07:40.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[07:40.650 --> 07:40.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[07:41.210 --> 07:41.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, currently.
[07:41.930 --> 07:42.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure that'll change.
[07:43.450 --> 07:46.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, um, but I thought that was pretty funny.
[07:46.490 --> 07:54.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, the other thing, and a lot of people have been saying this, is the stupid way that the, uh, local providers have been setting up ADSL.
[07:54.350 --> 07:54.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[07:54.650 --> 08:14.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this person told the same story we've been hearing over and over again about, uh, uh, all the people that are using Windows 95 or Windows NT and, uh, are, uh, uh, people are simply double-clicking on, uh, Network Neighborhood in 95 or NT and, uh, seeing everyone's computer.
[08:15.450 --> 08:16.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's, uh, kind of neat.
[08:16.650 --> 08:18.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's connected to ADSL in the local area.
[08:19.550 --> 08:22.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, which, uh, seems to be, uh...
[08:22.390 --> 08:23.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's cause for concern, I guess.
[08:23.570 --> 08:24.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's cause for concern.
[08:24.530 --> 08:33.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sure, and it seems like these, these little trial areas for ADSL are being treated as if they're one big, bridged Ethernet land, uh, it would seem.
[08:33.610 --> 08:35.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, everyone can see everyone else.
[08:35.330 --> 08:38.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: And there's also the obvious problem of sniffing traffic.
[08:38.390 --> 08:38.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[08:38.570 --> 08:46.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can simply see where everyone's connecting to and what their passwords are simply by sniffing the, uh, sniffing the wire from your very own computer.
[08:46.270 --> 08:52.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I guess then we really need to ask ourselves if we have something to hide.
[08:52.270 --> 08:53.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are we really innocent?
[08:53.150 --> 08:55.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: And only those of us who are guilty will want to hide.
[08:56.150 --> 08:57.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, or we can...
[08:57.430 --> 08:59.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Didn't a great government official say that once?
[08:59.850 --> 09:02.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Only those who have something to hide have something to fear.
[09:03.090 --> 09:04.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, actually, who said that?
[09:04.350 --> 09:06.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was one of those, uh, attorney general type people.
[09:07.290 --> 09:09.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you know, it was, um...
[09:09.230 --> 09:10.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, what's that guy's name from the 50s?
[09:10.850 --> 09:11.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, forget it.
[09:11.430 --> 09:12.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, it wasn't McCarthy.
[09:12.430 --> 09:12.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, okay.
[09:12.510 --> 09:13.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was some guy from, like, Reagan.
[09:14.310 --> 09:14.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[09:14.710 --> 09:15.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, yeah.
[09:16.350 --> 09:18.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sure one of our listeners can help us out with that one.
[09:18.310 --> 09:19.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Somebody will have to fill us in.
[09:19.350 --> 09:20.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't remember the names, I just remember the quotes.
[09:21.430 --> 09:21.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: The quotes.
[09:21.810 --> 09:24.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, and lots of good quotes coming around these days.
[09:24.910 --> 09:25.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[09:26.490 --> 09:27.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, ADSL Info.
[09:27.730 --> 09:29.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can I read something from the listener mailbox?
[09:29.870 --> 09:30.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[09:30.350 --> 09:31.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, this is from Nova Scotia.
[09:32.350 --> 09:34.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: ADSL Info, I thought you might like to hear in Canada.
[09:35.330 --> 09:40.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, Halifax, Nova Scotia, the local telco, is offering ADSL to the public as of November 17th.
[09:40.910 --> 09:57.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you have filled out an info sheet at a show-and-tell showing of the ADSL modems, you'll be contacted if you're in the 3.5-kilometer area, and your computer meets the requirements of 100 pentium, 100 megahertz pentium, 16 megs RAM, 100 megs, free hard drive space.
[09:57.470 --> 10:05.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, they use Windows 95 support only because they use Novell servers, and you need the client and support for the IP Novell gateway.
[10:06.170 --> 10:07.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Does that make any sense to you?
[10:07.010 --> 10:09.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it does, although it sounds rather crummy.
[10:09.610 --> 10:09.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[10:10.430 --> 10:17.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, it's $45, uh, Canadian, if you have the local telco for service and long distance from the telco.
[10:17.750 --> 10:19.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: $55 if you use another carrier.
[10:19.670 --> 10:21.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: $65 if you have no phone service.
[10:22.150 --> 10:24.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: A $150 setup fee.
[10:24.950 --> 10:27.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, um, there's no agreement package.
[10:27.830 --> 10:29.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're taking only 500 users this fall.
[10:30.390 --> 10:36.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, the installation includes an ADSL modem, a choice of PCI, uh, um, ISA net card.
[10:37.010 --> 10:38.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the whole setup takes two hours, they say.
[10:39.850 --> 10:41.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Should be faster than that.
[10:41.410 --> 10:41.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[10:42.230 --> 10:45.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd be happy, you know, waiting two hours to get ADSL if it actually worked.
[10:45.930 --> 10:54.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, actually, if it's, uh, if it's an external ADSL, uh, device, there's no reason why you couldn't connect it to most anything.
[10:54.650 --> 11:07.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Matt, I mean, at least in that particular scenario where you're kind of trapped using Novell and IPX, there are extensions to Mac OS that allow you called, it's called Mac IPX, that allow you to access Novell servers.
[11:07.610 --> 11:07.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[11:07.810 --> 11:16.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, um, there's also similar IPX support in, uh, various flavors of UNIX, uh, such as the, uh, Berkeley flavors.
[11:17.130 --> 11:17.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[11:17.710 --> 11:21.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, um, so that would, and, and, of course, Linux.
[11:21.530 --> 11:23.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that would certainly be an option.
[11:25.010 --> 11:26.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: This word out of New Brunswick.
[11:26.610 --> 11:35.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: New Brunswick Telephone, NBTEL, has launched the world's first ATM residential broadband network, dubbed the Video Active Network, using Nortel technology.
[11:36.310 --> 11:44.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: 4,300 households in the, oh boy, uh, Kenne, uh, see, now that they're listening over there, I have to worry about pronouncing it properly.
[11:45.070 --> 11:50.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I could make fun of it with just New York listening, but there's somebody in New Brunswick probably listening to us right now, and I gotta get this right.
[11:50.430 --> 11:55.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, so I'm gonna try Kenne, Kennebacassus, okay, I'm gonna say it again, Kennebacassus Valley.
[11:55.650 --> 11:58.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: The Kennebacassus, see, it's good to say when you can't write.
[11:58.250 --> 12:07.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Kennebacassus Valley are being offered Vibe, the first ever commercial service to provide two-way high-speed video, audio, and more using a home computer.
[12:07.490 --> 12:16.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Vibe enables customers to send and receive multimedia content at speeds up to 150 times faster than those normally available through a 28.8 modem.
[12:16.210 --> 12:22.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: When combined with Internet service, Vibe offers the fastest Internet access on the market.
[12:22.650 --> 12:24.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, I'm confused, Farber.
[12:24.110 --> 12:25.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Which, uh, which should people go for here?
[12:25.770 --> 12:26.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: ATM now?
[12:27.150 --> 12:27.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: ADSL?
[12:27.830 --> 12:28.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: ATM?
[12:28.610 --> 12:29.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: ISDN?
[12:29.310 --> 12:30.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's going on here?
[12:31.650 --> 12:37.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, well, I could easily see them perhaps switching.
[12:37.770 --> 12:44.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, ATM, ATM asynchronous transfer mode is basically, uh, a switched protocol.
[12:44.950 --> 13:05.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I can, I can see them at some point possibly switching ADSL, um, I don't know, uh, what they're calling it in the current terminology, an ADSL LAN perhaps, uh, where everyone appears to be on the same, uh, physical Ethernet, although I'm sure it's probably bridged together.
[13:05.530 --> 13:15.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: But for all practical intents and purposes, I can see them possibly bridging together, uh, various ADSL, uh, LANs and switching them with, uh, ATM switches.
[13:15.790 --> 13:26.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, but, um, as, uh, as far as using ATM to actually provide services, uh, right now it seems like it's a rather costly solution.
[13:28.450 --> 13:39.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I know, uh, in the former NYNEX, I know that they had, uh, one or two ATM switches that they were doing trials with downtown, but I don't know if anything ever came of that.
[13:40.510 --> 13:46.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, um, I don't know, uh, I, I, I wouldn't, uh, I wouldn't bank on it right now.
[13:46.330 --> 13:46.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[13:46.850 --> 13:53.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Since, uh, again, ATM is really, uh, uh, an expensive solution since you, since you're literally purchasing a switch.
[13:54.230 --> 13:59.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and it's, it's more geared towards, uh, the, uh, corporate, uh, mindset.
[13:59.890 --> 14:02.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right, but they're actually marketing it for residential.
[14:02.290 --> 14:02.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[14:02.450 --> 14:03.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the unusual thing.
[14:03.450 --> 14:04.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: That, that's odd.
[14:04.330 --> 14:05.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm, I'm wondering...
[14:05.210 --> 14:10.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, actually, it's probably not so odd if they have any kind of relationship with Northern Telecom, which I'm sure they do.
[14:11.210 --> 14:11.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[14:11.850 --> 14:12.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, uh, Nortel technology.
[14:13.150 --> 14:15.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, Nortel makes one of the top, uh, ATM switches.
[14:17.050 --> 14:19.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, um, well, we'll see what happens.
[14:20.410 --> 14:21.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: That we will.
[14:21.630 --> 14:21.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Definitely.
[14:22.650 --> 14:25.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, now some, some word about, uh, privacy.
[14:26.210 --> 14:30.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Concerns about people's privacy and, uh, and how it's being, uh, I guess...
[14:30.970 --> 14:33.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there, there was all this, uh, talk on Capitol Hill.
[14:33.370 --> 14:37.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've been following this the last couple of days about keeping children from, from seeing pornography.
[14:39.110 --> 14:42.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, uh, you know, Vice President Gore is, uh, is, is down there.
[14:43.750 --> 14:45.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Clinton is, is giving his support.
[14:45.290 --> 14:54.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: For all these, uh, all these, you know, programs like Cyber Patrol and, and various other methods to, at all costs, keep our kids from seeing pornography.
[14:54.790 --> 15:06.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, it's, it's like that is the worst possible thing that could happen to your child, is that they, they catch a glimpse of something from, you know, a magazine or, you know, a website or something that they're not ready for.
[15:06.210 --> 15:08.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, uh, people shoot up their high schools.
[15:08.490 --> 15:10.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's not even front page news anymore.
[15:10.190 --> 15:11.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, so that's sort of like to be expected.
[15:12.090 --> 15:14.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's just like, oh, well, it's a mistaken judgment or something like that.
[15:15.150 --> 15:22.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the really, really bad thing, the horrible thing is that somebody gets a, you know, a glimpse of a naked person doing something that they might not understand.
[15:22.490 --> 15:23.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's like, wow, that's, that's it.
[15:23.990 --> 15:26.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, you know, it's over when some, when that thing happens.
[15:26.910 --> 15:37.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: I saw on the news, I think it was yesterday, um, where the, the biggest horror was that when the teacher left the room, the kids would, would access a website with naked people on it, you know?
[15:38.030 --> 15:38.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Unbelievable.
[15:38.510 --> 15:42.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that was like, that was the most hard, that made national news, that these kids were actually doing this.
[15:43.050 --> 15:48.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, uh, I hate to break it to them, but, uh, we didn't exactly, you know, grow up and, uh, leave it to beaver land.
[15:48.850 --> 15:49.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know?
[15:49.570 --> 15:51.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Apparently these people on Capitol Hill did.
[15:51.990 --> 15:53.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know where they grew up.
[15:53.390 --> 15:55.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's like they grew up on another planet or something.
[15:55.110 --> 16:00.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have no conception of what, uh, you know, human mentality is like, and curiosity and things like that.
[16:00.970 --> 16:05.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think by, by Clinton and Gore making these statements and supporting these views...
[16:05.910 --> 16:07.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they've got no guts whatsoever.
[16:07.270 --> 16:08.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: They just want to be voted for.
[16:08.530 --> 16:09.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's all they care about.
[16:09.370 --> 16:17.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, yeah, but I think, I think that indirectly they're admitting that young children are always ready for plenty of death and violence.
[16:17.750 --> 16:17.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[16:19.330 --> 16:21.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can never get too much death and violence.
[16:21.350 --> 16:22.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess so.
[16:22.010 --> 16:22.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's all over television.
[16:23.150 --> 16:24.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're not looking to do anything about that.
[16:24.970 --> 16:25.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's the other thing.
[16:25.710 --> 16:26.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: TV, all right?
[16:26.570 --> 16:30.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Did you just say Pulp Fiction was on a couple of nights ago on Channel 11?
[16:30.630 --> 16:32.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: I actually, I heard about that and I...
[16:32.630 --> 16:34.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Channel 11 showing Pulp Fiction.
[16:34.830 --> 16:36.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, I thought, okay, you know, great.
[16:36.630 --> 16:39.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have this, like, new rating system now, you know?
[16:39.190 --> 16:40.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's rated TVMA.
[16:40.910 --> 16:44.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, and by the way, what is the TV for?
[16:44.770 --> 16:45.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know?
[16:45.470 --> 16:47.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you're watching television.
[16:47.470 --> 16:48.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a waste of space.
[16:48.510 --> 16:49.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course it's going to be TV.
[16:49.830 --> 16:53.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is there ever an occasion where there won't be a TV there or you'll be doing something else?
[16:53.630 --> 16:54.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, come on.
[16:54.410 --> 17:00.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's like, you know, TV space is valuable and I think that's, you know, a gigantic waste of resources.
[17:00.430 --> 17:01.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: So maybe they should rethink that.
[17:01.750 --> 17:03.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, too many letters up there.
[17:03.310 --> 17:04.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: The LSV.
[17:04.430 --> 17:06.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, the T and V are too many letters as well.
[17:06.370 --> 17:08.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyway, so they rate this thing TVMA.
[17:08.510 --> 17:12.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think that means that they're going to actually show the thing the way it was supposed to be shown.
[17:12.330 --> 17:16.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: But instead, it's like, you know, it's like tuning into a shortwave station and missing every other word, you know?
[17:17.190 --> 17:21.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's like, well, every word is censored or changed, you know?
[17:21.630 --> 17:25.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: I heard cuss words there that have never been, you know, made up before.
[17:26.550 --> 17:27.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Brand new made up cuss words?
[17:27.910 --> 17:31.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, like, you know, shut your flag in head or whatever, you know?
[17:31.750 --> 17:33.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Words that they just make up for TV.
[17:33.870 --> 17:35.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's the same actors reading it, too.
[17:35.890 --> 17:36.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[17:36.090 --> 17:44.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: They just sort of come up with these, like, alternative languages so that people in Iowa and Ohio and wherever aren't offended by it, even though it's only shown in New York.
[17:44.250 --> 17:48.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know why TV has to be so completely bland.
[17:49.530 --> 18:00.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, someone out there, maybe there's someone out there that owns a TV station and has some guts, challenge these things, you know, start airing things the way they're supposed to be, people talking the way that they're supposed to talk.
[18:00.710 --> 18:05.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, you can always turn the dial, and with that little V-chip thing, you can always just program your TV.
[18:05.730 --> 18:15.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although I understand the V-chips won't be ready until January, but when they are, I see no reason whatsoever for a TV MA rating to have any censorship whatsoever.
[18:16.290 --> 18:16.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I agree.
[18:17.050 --> 18:17.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's like R rating.
[18:17.930 --> 18:18.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the whole point of it.
[18:19.990 --> 18:27.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, speaking of censorship, before we move on into the privacy aspect, there is, well, I had it before.
[18:27.210 --> 18:32.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a pirate station somewhere in Philadelphia, I believe.
[18:33.610 --> 18:36.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, if you see that piece of paper around, somebody left this in my mailbox.
[18:36.710 --> 18:46.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a pirate station yesterday, decided to have a press conference and turn on their station down in Philadelphia.
[18:46.470 --> 18:47.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that it?
[18:47.370 --> 18:47.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you very much.
[18:48.510 --> 18:49.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, here we go.
[18:49.130 --> 18:52.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Radio pirates protest FCC harassment, radio mutiny.
[18:53.290 --> 19:07.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Radio mutiny, an unlicensed low watt station for West Philadelphia, is returning to the airwaves at noon on Monday, December 1st, following a five-day reorganization period after the Federal Communications Commission demanded that they cease and desist broadcasting.
[19:07.810 --> 19:16.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: We had the right to use the airwaves before, and I imagine they mean airwaves, not airwaves, and we have the right to use them now.
[19:16.550 --> 19:18.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: We will not be silenced by government thugs.
[19:18.990 --> 19:21.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: That said, uh, Millie Watt.
[19:22.110 --> 19:25.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, why do you suppose a name like that, the odds of getting involved in a radio station?
[19:25.190 --> 19:26.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Millie Watt of Radio Mutiny.
[19:27.190 --> 19:27.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a...
[19:28.490 --> 19:30.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a real coincidence there.
[19:30.530 --> 19:31.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: The station will flip the...
[19:31.710 --> 19:32.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Keep in mind, this happened yesterday.
[19:32.790 --> 19:38.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: The station will flip the transmitter switch once again at a press conference and demonstration Monday at Franklin Court.
[19:38.530 --> 19:40.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speakers will include DJs and Radio Mutiny listeners.
[19:41.150 --> 19:45.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: A giant silver switch will be thrown to turn on the transmitter banned by the government.
[19:46.190 --> 19:48.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, uh, I don't know what exactly happened there.
[19:48.990 --> 19:51.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, if they made it, if they're still on the air.
[19:52.010 --> 19:54.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know, uh...
[19:54.270 --> 19:55.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't see a frequency...
[19:55.230 --> 19:55.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, here it is.
[19:55.530 --> 19:57.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: 91.3 is their frequency down there in Philadelphia.
[19:58.670 --> 20:11.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, the Radio Mutiny Collective demands the FCC must immediately cease its harassment of micro radio stations, including WPPR, and the FCC must reinstitute an affordable license for community radio stations.
[20:11.730 --> 20:16.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's something that's, uh, definitely a topic of interest among many people in the broadcasting community.
[20:16.210 --> 20:22.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have, uh, at least one micropower station in New York, uh, down, I think, 88.7, is it?
[20:22.970 --> 20:25.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but you have to be on the, uh, Lower East Side to hear it.
[20:25.330 --> 20:25.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[20:25.490 --> 20:30.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it's kind of cool hearing Lower East Side radio, and there's no censorship or anything like that.
[20:30.450 --> 20:31.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it's, it's kind of cool.
[20:31.710 --> 20:32.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's, uh, that's what it's all about.
[20:33.270 --> 20:34.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can hear some god-awful stuff, too.
[20:34.910 --> 20:38.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, that's sort of what radio is all about, you know, mixing things around.
[20:39.050 --> 20:44.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyway, uh, so that's, that's the story with, uh, broadcasting and privacy and, uh, things like that.
[20:44.930 --> 20:51.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, at the University of Illinois, computer lab instructors are keeping students from using their systems anonymously.
[20:52.190 --> 21:00.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Students have been using anonymous logins to send sexually harassing email, death threats, and even slander against professors.
[21:00.470 --> 21:07.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, Jason Wessel, a system administrator, said that last year he got as many as 30 complaints a month.
[21:07.170 --> 21:12.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, uh, students had figured out how to use their web browsing software to send untraceable email.
[21:13.430 --> 21:16.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, they, they don't give us any information on how to do that, though.
[21:16.590 --> 21:18.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, this is a direct quote.
[21:18.410 --> 21:23.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Before a new login procedure was created, the school expelled about... what?
[21:23.990 --> 21:24.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: My mic is off.
[21:25.210 --> 21:26.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's because I'm talking.
[21:26.590 --> 21:27.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[21:27.470 --> 21:28.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I thought you might have...
[21:28.610 --> 21:30.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you want to talk while I'm talking?
[21:30.130 --> 21:31.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no, not at all.
[21:31.170 --> 21:33.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Feel free to just barge in any time, all right?
[21:33.170 --> 21:34.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a cocktail party here.
[21:35.570 --> 21:37.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's people dancing on the tables trying to get my attention.
[21:37.830 --> 21:38.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know, the mic's off.
[21:38.610 --> 21:39.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: I turned it off.
[21:39.710 --> 21:39.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[21:40.110 --> 21:41.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Students had figured out how to...
[21:41.270 --> 21:43.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, send anonymous untraceable mail.
[21:43.590 --> 21:45.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Before a new login procedure was created, listen to this.
[21:45.950 --> 21:51.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: The school expelled about one student a semester related to renegade email or other forms of hacking.
[21:51.970 --> 21:52.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Like, can you believe that?
[21:52.610 --> 21:53.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: They expelled them.
[21:54.110 --> 21:55.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: They completely expelled them.
[21:56.570 --> 21:57.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know?
[22:04.450 --> 22:05.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're going to tell them how to do that, don't you?
[22:05.390 --> 22:09.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, it's Netscape Options on the Options menu, and you choose Mail and News Preferences.
[22:10.230 --> 22:11.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you can just send something?
[22:11.710 --> 22:15.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you set what you want your return address to be.
[22:15.430 --> 22:15.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[22:16.370 --> 22:20.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Students are required to trace most anonymous...
[22:20.650 --> 22:20.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wait a minute.
[22:20.990 --> 22:28.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Students are required now to type in their full names and passwords to log in, which allows the school to trace most anonymous email.
[22:28.050 --> 22:36.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, they now can identify 90% of anonymous email, and they say that complaints are decreasing as warnings increase.
[22:37.150 --> 22:42.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: The university had forbidden anonymous email for years, but without the new login procedure, it was very difficult to enforce.
[22:43.370 --> 22:47.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that was sent to us by Daniel, a listener somewhere out there.
[22:49.650 --> 22:51.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, more on privacy.
[22:52.070 --> 22:52.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about this?
[22:53.210 --> 22:55.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: This comes from Comp.Risks.
[22:55.270 --> 22:58.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: I received a spam mail today that was rather sinister.
[22:59.050 --> 23:03.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Most spam requests that I receive requested you click on the hyperlink to go to their site.
[23:03.210 --> 23:04.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: This one, however, was much different.
[23:04.850 --> 23:11.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm running Internet Explorer 4.0, and I simply highlighted the new message in my mailbox and clicked on the subject to read it.
[23:11.710 --> 23:19.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: It immediately downloaded and initialized a Java applet that took control of my browser, opened the session to their site as I sat in amazement.
[23:19.830 --> 23:25.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: I then quickly, out of fear, stopped the connection to that site, went back to the mail message, and viewed the source to see what was in it.
[23:25.470 --> 23:28.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, then he gives out the source, but I'm really not going to do it over the air because it's kind of hell and boring.
[23:29.830 --> 23:36.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, but, uh, the person goes on to say, I never really cared about much about the spam I received because it was really non-intrusive for the most part.
[23:36.610 --> 23:37.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: This, however, was scary.
[23:37.930 --> 23:40.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: It took control of my browser, forced me to their site.
[23:40.750 --> 23:43.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Who knows what the site web pages would do if you let it run its course.
[23:44.490 --> 23:45.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Net users beware.
[23:45.450 --> 23:49.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: The risks of simply receiving spam have just skyrocketed.
[23:49.390 --> 23:53.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Turn off auto-preview mode and look at the source of the message prior to opening the mail item.
[23:53.870 --> 23:59.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: I never cared about this before, but I really feel violated in some weird electronic sense.
[24:00.010 --> 24:02.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's just discovered ActiveX controls.
[24:02.490 --> 24:02.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[24:03.250 --> 24:04.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, uh...
[24:04.370 --> 24:06.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, tell us.
[24:06.210 --> 24:07.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Tell the uninitiated out there.
[24:07.490 --> 24:08.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, ActiveX?
[24:08.470 --> 24:08.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Protect themselves.
[24:08.750 --> 24:14.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: ActiveX is a feature of Windows 95 and Windows NT specifically.
[24:14.750 --> 24:15.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[24:15.370 --> 24:18.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you're saying this person should not have, uh, had that feature enabled?
[24:18.810 --> 24:35.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, um, not necessarily, but I mean, there's been quite a number of, uh, complaints concerning pranks that people have pulled on their websites or in email that, uh, would cause somebody's browser to do something adverse.
[24:35.690 --> 24:35.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[24:35.950 --> 24:46.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, and ActiveX, ActiveX is supposed to be a powerful means of, uh, controlling, uh, audio, video, and various other things.
[24:47.790 --> 24:54.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, it's, uh, I guess it was Microsoft's answer to, uh, Java before Java.
[24:54.370 --> 24:56.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh, but, um...
[24:58.490 --> 25:03.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, it's, um, I don't, I'm, I'm not exactly shocked.
[25:03.690 --> 25:10.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, people, if they really sit down and think about it, they can think up all kinds of obnoxious things to do with, with ActiveX.
[25:10.290 --> 25:14.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the good thing about ActiveX is that you could even write ActiveX controls in Visual Basic.
[25:14.450 --> 25:14.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[25:14.890 --> 25:17.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: So even the dumbest person out there can cause havoc.
[25:17.510 --> 25:18.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, that's something.
[25:18.850 --> 25:20.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's, uh, that's awe-inspiring, in fact.
[25:20.650 --> 25:24.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, of course, the only people affected are Internet Explorer users.
[25:24.710 --> 25:26.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's, that's unfortunate.
[25:27.410 --> 25:39.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, um, speaking of, um, of, of Cyber Patrol, and, uh, you know, other such programs to protect our children on the Internet, um, who's going to protect us from the children?
[25:40.110 --> 25:41.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what I want to know, you know?
[25:42.310 --> 25:49.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's like this, this evil force out there that's seeking to, uh, you know, to water everything down and make it so we can't, like, act like adults anymore.
[25:49.750 --> 25:51.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have to do everything as if we're children.
[25:52.050 --> 25:52.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I don't know.
[25:53.030 --> 25:54.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want some senators speaking out against that.
[25:55.230 --> 25:56.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I don't think I'm going to hear that anytime soon.
[25:56.930 --> 25:57.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Listen to this.
[25:57.370 --> 26:02.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Cyber Patrol blocked these sites, in addition to all the porno that they try to block.
[26:02.410 --> 26:03.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Don't always do that.
[26:03.430 --> 26:05.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: They blocked the flag-burning page.
[26:05.850 --> 26:13.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, one of the most intelligent and funny resources on the web examines the unconstitutionality under the First Amendment of laws against burning the flag.
[26:14.490 --> 26:21.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, they blocked the Second Amendment Foundation, a large collection of resources and Second Amendment right-to-bear-arms issues.
[26:21.790 --> 26:30.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, while the blocking of this site is questionable under any theory, it is also a nice illustration of the inconsistency of Cyber Patrol and of all blocking software.
[26:30.830 --> 26:37.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: This product has not blocked the National Rifle Association or numerous other sites on both sides of the gun control issue.
[26:37.790 --> 26:44.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, the Newt Watch page is regrettably no longer on the web, but Cyber Patrol blocks it at its former URL.
[26:44.490 --> 26:52.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Funded by the Democratic Party, Newt Watch was a combination of devastating political reportage and satire aimed at Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich.
[26:52.370 --> 26:59.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: It contained nothing that was offensive to children by any stretch of the imagination, unless they were Republican children with no sense of humor.
[27:01.450 --> 27:08.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Another vanished web page that is still blocked is the Dr. Bonzo web page, a series of satirical essays on religious matters.
[27:08.450 --> 27:15.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: The blocking of these two pages, uh, long removed from the web, raises questions about the frequency with which the Cyber Patrol database is updated.
[27:15.850 --> 27:20.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, a third blocked page, which is no longer on the web, contained nothing but a copy of the U.S.
[27:20.370 --> 27:20.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Constitution.
[27:21.590 --> 27:22.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Huh.
[27:22.570 --> 27:23.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[27:23.510 --> 27:27.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, so that gives you an idea, you know, and this comes also from the, uh, the Risks Digest.
[27:28.070 --> 27:31.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, it gives you an idea of just, you know, how ridiculous these programs can be.
[27:31.550 --> 27:33.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Seems like an old Star Trek episode.
[27:33.370 --> 27:35.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: It, uh, somehow does, yes.
[27:35.710 --> 27:41.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, and finally, tonight, before we open up the phones to, uh, listener phone calls, 212-279-3400.
[27:42.070 --> 27:47.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, a listener sent this to us, something we could maybe discuss on our show.
[27:47.870 --> 27:48.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, yes, we will do this.
[27:49.130 --> 27:52.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, there is a Yahoo Alta Vista thing out there.
[27:53.230 --> 27:54.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
[27:54.590 --> 28:00.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: At, uh, url, http, colon, backslash, backslash, or, I'm sorry, slash, slash, slash, slash, slash.
[28:00.450 --> 28:01.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sorry, I'm using DOS too much.
[28:02.850 --> 28:05.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: av.yahoo.com slash bin slash query.
[28:05.830 --> 28:06.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, everybody out there?
[28:07.070 --> 28:08.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Go to that URL.
[28:08.290 --> 28:09.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's still working as of today, I think.
[28:09.330 --> 28:09.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[28:09.930 --> 28:10.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[28:10.570 --> 28:13.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, av.yahoo.com slash bin slash query.
[28:13.410 --> 28:14.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, www.
[28:14.870 --> 28:15.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Nope.
[28:15.390 --> 28:15.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-uh.
[28:16.150 --> 28:17.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, guess what?
[28:17.250 --> 28:21.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: You see whatever people are searching for at that particular moment in time.
[28:21.450 --> 28:22.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's the, it's the wackiest thing.
[28:23.010 --> 28:25.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: It shows the search that the machine's currently working on.
[28:25.390 --> 28:28.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, all you have to do is keep hitting reload, and you'll see all kinds of different ones.
[28:28.970 --> 28:30.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, this person has a question.
[28:30.550 --> 28:32.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: A small group of non-hackers were discussing this.
[28:33.150 --> 28:38.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, while I say that going to this website isn't hacking, they insist that when we open it, we are indeed hacking.
[28:39.350 --> 28:41.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Also, several argue that this is morally wrong.
[28:41.910 --> 28:42.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's your take on it?
[28:43.030 --> 28:46.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I say it's not morally wrong because you don't know the identity of the person searching.
[28:46.670 --> 28:47.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Signed, code freeze.
[28:47.910 --> 28:52.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, code freeze, I don't think there's anything wrong with this, or with hacking for that matter.
[28:52.530 --> 28:55.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, I mean, you're clicking on a URL, for God's sake.
[28:55.030 --> 28:58.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, you're not even entering a password, you're not entering somebody's identity.
[28:59.590 --> 29:02.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's a form of hacking in that you're exploring.
[29:03.310 --> 29:06.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, it's certainly not doing anything illegal, and I don't think it's doing anything immoral.
[29:06.910 --> 29:08.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think you're doing something that's pretty damn funny.
[29:09.010 --> 29:10.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, listen to these things that we got.
[29:10.350 --> 29:11.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: We've got some printouts here.
[29:11.730 --> 29:14.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: We've managed to capture several thousand of these things.
[29:15.830 --> 29:16.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to read a few of these.
[29:17.050 --> 29:22.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, keep in mind, you might want to keep an eagle eye on the list on the wall of the things that we can say.
[29:22.230 --> 29:22.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[29:22.710 --> 29:25.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: And just assume that if it's not on there, we can't say it.
[29:25.250 --> 29:25.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, be careful.
[29:26.150 --> 29:26.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's amazing.
[29:27.110 --> 29:29.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Most of the searches seem to have something to do with sex.
[29:29.910 --> 29:31.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, words I've never heard before.
[29:32.050 --> 29:34.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, all kinds of weird things.
[29:35.010 --> 29:35.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[29:36.370 --> 29:40.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: First one I got was USMC Boot Camp, Paris Island, South Carolina.
[29:40.170 --> 29:41.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Someone being very specific there.
[29:41.990 --> 29:43.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Black Ski Clubs.
[29:45.530 --> 29:46.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oprah email address.
[29:48.810 --> 29:49.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hairiest Beaver.
[29:50.630 --> 29:52.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: And with that, I'll turn it over to you.
[29:53.490 --> 29:55.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I see some all-time favorites here.
[29:55.950 --> 29:59.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have Ultra Hardcore Teen Sex.
[29:59.310 --> 29:59.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[30:00.690 --> 30:02.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sissy Boy Put On This Bra.
[30:04.190 --> 30:06.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, and one of my favorites, Teen Hair.
[30:06.970 --> 30:10.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about Marijuana Jokes with Marijuana Spelled Completely Wrong?
[30:10.650 --> 30:10.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[30:10.870 --> 30:14.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, you'd be amazed how many misspellings I've come across on these things.
[30:14.310 --> 30:16.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, simple words spelled completely wrong.
[30:16.310 --> 30:17.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's amazing they find anything.
[30:17.410 --> 30:19.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think most of the world doesn't really know how to spell.
[30:19.690 --> 30:21.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ooh, Hacks, Cracks, Wears.
[30:22.150 --> 30:23.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hmm, that's kind of neat.
[30:23.870 --> 30:24.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: What else you got there?
[30:25.070 --> 30:25.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, let's see.
[30:25.910 --> 30:26.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here's a good one.
[30:26.690 --> 30:28.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Pamela Lee Anderson video.
[30:28.590 --> 30:30.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, you know, I heard about that.
[30:30.210 --> 30:30.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you?
[30:30.670 --> 30:30.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[30:30.990 --> 30:31.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Fishing Nuts.
[30:32.250 --> 30:34.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, Marianne Man Nude.
[30:35.790 --> 30:37.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: New Yankee Workshop.
[30:37.750 --> 30:39.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Guns N' Roses.
[30:40.630 --> 30:41.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Spelled pretty wrong.
[30:42.910 --> 30:45.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but there are some innocent things on here that people are looking for, too.
[30:46.370 --> 30:48.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Spice Girls de Nudas.
[30:51.100 --> 30:53.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, there are things from other countries, too.
[30:53.260 --> 30:53.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[30:53.620 --> 30:56.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: You get your German, you get your Spanish, you get your French, all kinds of things.
[30:56.740 --> 30:56.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[30:57.540 --> 30:58.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, Curse of Monkey Island.
[31:01.340 --> 31:02.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Curse of Monkey Island.
[31:02.300 --> 31:02.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[31:03.100 --> 31:03.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it's a video game.
[31:04.020 --> 31:04.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[31:04.620 --> 31:05.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: 18-year-old babes.
[31:06.080 --> 31:07.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hotel Information System.
[31:07.520 --> 31:08.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Come on, five or any more over there?
[31:08.740 --> 31:09.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or are they all obscene?
[31:09.700 --> 31:10.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, there's some good ones here.
[31:10.920 --> 31:11.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, let's hear it.
[31:11.260 --> 31:12.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hallmark Cards.
[31:12.240 --> 31:14.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a good wholesome thing to search for.
[31:14.220 --> 31:14.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a good wholesome thing, yeah.
[31:15.900 --> 31:16.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see.
[31:16.520 --> 31:18.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, Dodge Caravan, 93.
[31:18.360 --> 31:18.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: There you go.
[31:18.940 --> 31:19.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: There you go.
[31:19.440 --> 31:20.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Useful information.
[31:20.220 --> 31:20.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Christmas in Switzerland.
[31:22.700 --> 31:24.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Lotus Installation Problems.
[31:25.120 --> 31:25.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[31:29.520 --> 31:30.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if we can allow that one.
[31:33.760 --> 31:34.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, here's a good one.
[31:35.540 --> 31:43.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure you're familiar with, uh, you're familiar with the, uh, the fashion, designer for men, known as Tommy Hilfiger.
[31:44.420 --> 31:45.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[31:45.360 --> 31:47.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, this is Tommy Hillyfinger.
[31:47.400 --> 31:47.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh.
[31:48.680 --> 31:49.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about that?
[31:50.360 --> 31:52.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have rectal penetration.
[31:52.860 --> 31:53.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[31:53.680 --> 31:56.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have confederate flag and fax.
[31:56.300 --> 31:57.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have eunuchs.
[31:58.580 --> 32:09.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, personality, cantaloupe, men in uniform, gene therapy, spelled wrong, um, and it goes on.
[32:09.040 --> 32:10.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have something here.
[32:10.440 --> 32:11.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just have to add this one.
[32:12.040 --> 32:12.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[32:12.540 --> 32:15.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have some, a search here for latex windows.
[32:15.820 --> 32:17.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: What exactly is a latex window?
[32:17.680 --> 32:19.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, if you clicked on it, you'd find out.
[32:19.420 --> 32:20.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: A rubber window?
[32:20.620 --> 32:22.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what Yahoo is for, to find out things like this.
[32:22.560 --> 32:26.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: And again, the URL is av.yahoo.com slash bin slash query.
[32:26.520 --> 32:27.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, Phiber, why are they doing this?
[32:28.200 --> 32:28.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Why?
[32:28.740 --> 32:28.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[32:28.920 --> 32:30.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it's an obvious oversight.
[32:30.840 --> 32:31.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a big oversight.
[32:31.860 --> 32:32.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[32:32.200 --> 32:39.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Either that, or it's there purposefully, so that they could collect statistics and form all kinds of marketing research crap.
[32:39.580 --> 32:39.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[32:40.480 --> 32:41.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Many search sites.
[32:41.060 --> 32:41.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[32:41.440 --> 32:41.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sorry.
[32:41.760 --> 32:41.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[32:42.000 --> 32:42.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[32:42.260 --> 32:42.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: What?
[32:42.500 --> 32:43.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are a number of search sites.
[32:43.780 --> 32:58.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't remember the exact URL for other ones, but there are multiple search sites that specifically, as advertising, just as interesting social science, put up queries that everyone is doing, so you can watch them go by, and click on them if they strike your fancy.
[32:58.360 --> 32:58.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[32:58.820 --> 33:01.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, this can be a feature of sorts.
[33:02.200 --> 33:02.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hmm.
[33:02.720 --> 33:03.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Very interesting.
[33:03.520 --> 33:04.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, ShineX is here.
[33:04.840 --> 33:05.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[33:05.120 --> 33:20.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you, for some reason, had a website that you wanted people to go to, like a website of your own, you could probably hit one of these pages that showed you what people were looking for, and if you saw some kind of trends, you could make your webpage conform to that trend,
[33:21.300 --> 33:22.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: if, you know what I mean.
[33:22.380 --> 33:22.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[33:22.500 --> 33:24.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You sort of give the people what they want.
[33:24.760 --> 33:26.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could title your webpage Tommy Hillyfinger.
[33:26.800 --> 33:26.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[33:28.680 --> 33:30.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: If people want that, you can provide it.
[33:30.940 --> 33:31.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[33:31.240 --> 33:31.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[33:31.820 --> 33:34.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there might be some reason to do that.
[33:34.300 --> 33:37.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I think what this points out is that people can't spell to save their lives.
[33:37.760 --> 33:38.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[33:38.200 --> 33:42.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: In a sense, this is a way to learn about how to hack the search engines.
[33:42.740 --> 33:44.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Looking at this is not hacking.
[33:44.680 --> 33:44.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[33:44.800 --> 33:49.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a service that these search engines are providing to people, so you are not doing anything...
[33:49.680 --> 33:51.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Figuring out how to find that URL, that's hacking.
[33:51.900 --> 33:52.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's hacking.
[33:52.520 --> 33:52.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[33:52.820 --> 33:59.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Figuring out how to match someone's query, that is hacking, that's trying to decipher the criteria that the search engines use.
[34:00.000 --> 34:00.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[34:00.480 --> 34:04.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, would there be another service in there, perhaps, that would give the email address of the person doing this?
[34:05.280 --> 34:06.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's something to be concerned with.
[34:06.380 --> 34:09.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think that would generate a lot of complaints.
[34:09.080 --> 34:10.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, that certainly would, yes.
[34:10.500 --> 34:10.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Absolutely.
[34:11.540 --> 34:12.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: And rightfully so.
[34:12.680 --> 34:12.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[34:12.960 --> 34:15.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because that's not the kind of thing you really want to be giving out, but...
[34:15.060 --> 34:17.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, besides which, they're selling that information.
[34:17.300 --> 34:18.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're not going to give it away freely.
[34:18.160 --> 34:19.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's true as well.
[34:20.020 --> 34:21.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: But this is fun for the whole family.
[34:21.480 --> 34:21.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[34:21.740 --> 34:24.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can sit around and just see what kinds of things people are looking for.
[34:25.060 --> 34:28.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Once again, and this is the last time I'm going to give this out, av.yahoo.com slash bin slash query.
[34:28.960 --> 34:30.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Probably won't be working later tonight.
[34:30.620 --> 34:32.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: I say, turn that off or whatever.
[34:32.340 --> 34:32.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll see.
[34:32.760 --> 34:35.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, if it's still working, then we know that they don't mind.
[34:35.840 --> 34:36.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[34:36.000 --> 34:37.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what, we got a good one there?
[34:37.360 --> 34:38.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can we say that on the air?
[34:38.480 --> 34:39.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, no.
[34:39.440 --> 34:40.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: We can't say that.
[34:40.460 --> 34:40.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: No.
[34:41.000 --> 34:42.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think we should say that on the air.
[34:42.600 --> 34:43.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[34:43.100 --> 34:52.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if we can open up the telephones and go to some listener phone calls here on radio station WBAI in New York.
[34:52.820 --> 34:53.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: The program is off the hook.
[34:54.140 --> 35:03.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with Phiber Optik and friends who are talking about all kinds of privacy issues and technology advances and fun on the net.
[35:03.840 --> 35:04.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[35:05.240 --> 35:06.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Line 5 is out.
[35:06.480 --> 35:09.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: So if you're calling on line 5, well, you won't know it, but...
[35:09.160 --> 35:09.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're not there.
[35:10.000 --> 35:11.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're definitely not there.
[35:11.540 --> 35:12.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[35:12.660 --> 35:13.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: You'll just be ringing forever.
[35:13.880 --> 35:15.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: So let's take our first listener phone call again.
[35:16.020 --> 35:18.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you're listening on the radio, please turn down your radio.
[35:18.320 --> 35:21.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you're listening on the Internet, please turn down your computer.
[35:22.160 --> 35:26.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: And keep in mind that it'll take about 20 seconds for that warning to get to you.
[35:27.240 --> 35:28.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I guess I can...
[35:28.980 --> 35:31.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: The first person who calls on the computer will be a little bit confused.
[35:31.440 --> 35:32.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: I can understand that.
[35:32.780 --> 35:33.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[35:33.380 --> 35:34.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[35:35.520 --> 35:35.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: See?
[35:36.060 --> 35:37.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is exactly what I was talking about.
[35:38.940 --> 35:39.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: See?
[35:39.540 --> 35:39.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: See?
[35:40.120 --> 35:41.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're waiting to hear the warning.
[35:42.640 --> 35:47.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: And eventually they'll figure out that the warning was intended for them, and they're on the air right now.
[35:47.620 --> 35:47.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[35:47.880 --> 35:48.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[35:48.580 --> 35:49.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where are you calling from?
[35:50.160 --> 35:50.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Louisville, Kentucky.
[35:51.100 --> 35:51.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Louisville, Kentucky.
[35:52.140 --> 35:53.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about that?
[35:53.540 --> 35:55.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: And how are things down there?
[35:55.760 --> 35:56.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Fine.
[35:56.060 --> 35:57.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just got a question for you.
[35:57.280 --> 35:57.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Go ahead.
[35:58.040 --> 36:02.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of the payphones down here, if you dial an 800 number, it gives you a dial tuning.
[36:02.760 --> 36:05.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: You call like free long distance and local calls for free.
[36:05.440 --> 36:05.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[36:06.100 --> 36:07.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: What kind of payphones are they?
[36:07.740 --> 36:08.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bell South.
[36:08.720 --> 36:09.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about that?
[36:09.360 --> 36:09.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[36:09.680 --> 36:10.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good old Bell South.
[36:10.440 --> 36:11.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow, they come through again, yeah.
[36:12.360 --> 36:14.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: So now, do you have to wait for the 800 number to disconnect?
[36:15.000 --> 36:15.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[36:15.840 --> 36:18.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, and when it drops down to a dial tone, then you have...
[36:18.340 --> 36:20.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's sort of like an old-fashioned cocot trick, isn't it?
[36:21.280 --> 36:26.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, is this possibly Bell South getting some of their first cocots, like we are here?
[36:28.440 --> 36:32.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are these plain old-fashioned payphones, or do they have like newfangled technology in them?
[36:32.960 --> 36:35.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, but they send Bell South all over.
[36:35.620 --> 36:40.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, when they place a call, do they say thank you for using Bell South or anything like that?
[36:40.400 --> 36:40.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: They do.
[36:40.960 --> 36:42.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, so those are the new cocots.
[36:42.140 --> 36:44.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Those are the new cocots, and they're probably all messed up.
[36:44.320 --> 36:45.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, sounds like it.
[36:45.480 --> 36:45.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[36:45.860 --> 36:46.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you can call anywhere.
[36:46.940 --> 36:47.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Overseas, too?
[36:48.280 --> 36:49.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I haven't tried that yet.
[36:49.540 --> 36:49.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, okay.
[36:50.020 --> 37:01.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, I'm not suggesting you do, but it's something to consider that maybe these dial tones are completely wide open, and that's certainly not going to last very much longer if they figure it out.
[37:01.160 --> 37:01.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm.
[37:02.400 --> 37:03.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, well, good call there.
[37:04.100 --> 37:04.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, thank you.
[37:04.840 --> 37:05.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, take care.
[37:06.420 --> 37:07.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about that?
[37:07.400 --> 37:07.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[37:07.840 --> 37:10.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Some free calls to make in Louisville, Kentucky.
[37:10.760 --> 37:11.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: I wouldn't be shocked if you couldn't...
[37:11.640 --> 37:12.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Driving down there, do you?
[37:12.520 --> 37:12.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[37:13.660 --> 37:16.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: I bet you there's other places down there, too, in Bell South land.
[37:16.380 --> 37:16.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bell South.
[37:17.000 --> 37:19.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bell South starts at Carolina, right?
[37:20.600 --> 37:21.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Virginia is about Atlantic.
[37:21.920 --> 37:22.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[37:22.480 --> 37:23.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: And Washington, D.C.
[37:23.420 --> 37:25.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: is about Atlantic, so I guess Carolina and...
[37:25.400 --> 37:25.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[37:25.940 --> 37:27.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: All the way down to Florida.
[37:27.440 --> 37:27.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[37:27.800 --> 37:29.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: And all the way over to Louisiana.
[37:29.460 --> 37:30.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Georgia, all those places.
[37:30.900 --> 37:31.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[37:31.160 --> 37:31.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about that?
[37:32.660 --> 37:45.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speaking of those places, by the way, this Friday is a 2,600 meeting in various cities around the country, so I'm certainly not going to list all of them because there's too many of them, but just a reminder to people listening that it's the first Friday of the month,
[37:45.820 --> 37:49.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: and generally they meet in various cities between 5 p.m.
[37:49.680 --> 37:51.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: and 8 p.m., although the time may vary.
[37:52.280 --> 37:52.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[37:53.020 --> 37:53.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[37:53.880 --> 37:54.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi.
[37:54.380 --> 37:54.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you doing?
[37:54.680 --> 37:55.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I had a couple questions.
[37:56.420 --> 37:57.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where are you calling from, first of all?
[37:57.960 --> 37:58.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alabama.
[37:58.780 --> 37:59.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Alabama?
[37:59.360 --> 37:59.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[37:59.740 --> 38:00.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where's all the New York callers?
[38:00.960 --> 38:02.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess all New York listeners are gone or something.
[38:03.680 --> 38:05.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Our station could go off the air and we'd never know it.
[38:06.140 --> 38:08.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, we have the Internet, so you don't even need a tower anymore.
[38:08.540 --> 38:08.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[38:08.820 --> 38:11.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, we do need the station to get it on the Internet.
[38:11.100 --> 38:12.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, to get it to the people who are coding.
[38:13.140 --> 38:14.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: So what's up in Alabama?
[38:14.180 --> 38:15.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're Bell South, too, aren't you?
[38:15.420 --> 38:17.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I just heard that.
[38:17.320 --> 38:20.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: And to kind of stay on the subject, I had a question.
[38:20.780 --> 38:32.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't until about a year ago that the Bell South payphone went to where they did the mic muting, so you couldn't use red box tones or anything on them.
[38:32.420 --> 38:47.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: So is that an actual physical... were the phones physically updated, or was it a software update that would do that, or did they have to actually change out hardware in the phone to make the mic muting possible?
[38:48.340 --> 38:50.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: The phones are physically updated.
[38:50.560 --> 38:54.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you're talking about the payphones that the previous caller was talking about...
[38:54.240 --> 38:54.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[38:54.660 --> 38:56.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait, he's talking about the red box muting?
[38:56.700 --> 38:57.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the old flavor...
[38:58.500 --> 39:04.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yeah, the old flavor phones where the red box tones are muted, yeah, that is something physical in the phone also.
[39:05.220 --> 39:08.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because up until about a year ago, you know, the phones, of course...
[39:08.480 --> 39:10.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you see, that's why it happens phone by phone.
[39:10.960 --> 39:15.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: You may notice that sometimes certain things work on one phone, and then they don't work on the phone next to it.
[39:15.740 --> 39:15.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[39:16.000 --> 39:23.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's because when they're called in to service a phone, they also update it with the latest, you know, revision or security hardware that they have to install.
[39:23.860 --> 39:29.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's why if you go inside lots of buildings to phones, that aren't serviced very often, you'll find all kinds...
[39:29.900 --> 39:32.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I found a rotary payphone in one place.
[39:33.160 --> 39:34.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: It still said 10 cents on it.
[39:34.900 --> 39:36.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I could give you a surefire tip.
[39:36.580 --> 39:37.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not gonna...
[39:37.640 --> 39:39.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not enforcing red boxing.
[39:39.840 --> 39:41.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think everyone should pay for their calls.
[39:41.440 --> 39:42.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, endorsing, not enforcing.
[39:42.720 --> 39:44.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I'm not doing either.
[39:44.100 --> 39:45.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who's going to enforce red boxing?
[39:45.580 --> 39:47.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, somebody who firmly believes in it.
[39:48.260 --> 39:49.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, um...
[39:49.060 --> 39:50.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not endorsing or enforcing.
[39:50.440 --> 39:50.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[39:58.360 --> 40:07.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, at least here in NYNEX slash Bell Atlantic land, uh, and your mileage may vary elsewhere, is to turn the, uh, the coin release.
[40:07.960 --> 40:08.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh.
[40:08.660 --> 40:17.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: If the coin release gives you a clangity clang, uh-huh, instead of nothing, uh-huh, then you know you're using an older, uh, electromechanical payphone.
[40:17.960 --> 40:18.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[40:18.500 --> 40:20.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, the, uh...
[40:20.900 --> 40:21.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what's the other one?
[40:22.500 --> 40:22.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's that?
[40:22.920 --> 40:24.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: If it goes clangity clang, it's one.
[40:24.420 --> 40:25.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if it does, what's the other one?
[40:25.920 --> 40:26.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: What?
[40:26.440 --> 40:27.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, if it doesn't do anything.
[40:27.420 --> 40:28.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, it just doesn't make any noise?
[40:28.260 --> 40:30.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you'll just, you'll just hear it turn clean.
[40:30.520 --> 40:32.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: You won't hear, like, really anything at all.
[40:32.360 --> 40:35.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have a potentially very embarrassing question to ask you.
[40:35.160 --> 40:35.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's that?
[40:35.440 --> 40:37.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Was that not something that Rebel told you?
[40:37.840 --> 40:38.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, it's not, actually.
[40:39.060 --> 40:39.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's something I told him.
[40:40.120 --> 40:40.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, you told him?
[40:41.060 --> 40:41.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[40:41.360 --> 40:41.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[40:41.780 --> 40:42.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: You told him that?
[40:42.660 --> 40:42.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it was probably...
[40:42.920 --> 40:44.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: I thought I remembered him showing us something like that.
[40:44.800 --> 40:47.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, he showed us some other thing that probably didn't make much sense.
[40:47.880 --> 40:48.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[40:48.180 --> 40:48.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[40:48.560 --> 40:49.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, um...
[40:49.860 --> 40:53.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, that was something I told him, uh, a number of years ago.
[40:53.200 --> 40:53.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[40:53.960 --> 40:54.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it still holds true today?
[40:55.540 --> 40:56.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, I wouldn't know.
[40:57.100 --> 40:59.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, I'd be willing to bet it does.
[40:59.240 --> 40:59.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[40:59.620 --> 41:01.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Any more questions, Alabama caller?
[41:01.480 --> 41:07.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the $0.35, the local call, that they upped it, was that an FCC cap that was changed?
[41:08.020 --> 41:15.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, the FCC basically deregulated pay fund prices, which meant that all of a sudden everybody said, hey, you know what, we need more money, and we're going to raise it.
[41:15.660 --> 41:22.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Here in New York, NYNEX had made an agreement not to raise pay fund rates through, I think, the year 2002 or something like that.
[41:22.460 --> 41:26.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: And since NYNEX was taken over by Bell Atlantic, Bell Atlantic is being held to that agreement.
[41:26.420 --> 41:29.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: So pay fund rates, for now, are safe in New York.
[41:29.460 --> 41:31.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: New Jersey, I think they just bounced up to $0.35.
[41:31.340 --> 41:40.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, theoretically, if there's a payphone that was, or a phone was at a premium, say, at hotels, you know, you pay $10 for a Coke at a Coke machine at a hotel.
[41:41.080 --> 41:43.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they could charge you $1 for a local call.
[41:43.180 --> 41:43.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they could do that now.
[41:43.740 --> 41:46.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they could, and if people are dumb enough to use it, they'll just keep doing it.
[41:47.120 --> 41:48.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: One other thing about ADSL.
[41:48.720 --> 41:48.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[41:48.940 --> 41:57.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: When they're testing these trial areas, is this a test of the ADSL system, or is it a local test of the equipment, kind of acceptance of ADSL?
[41:58.180 --> 42:07.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, essentially, would every area that will be getting ADSL go through a trial period prior to it being released to the consumer?
[42:07.320 --> 42:16.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, whenever some new feature, no matter what it is, is going to be released or unveiled by a phone company, there's always a trial area.
[42:16.740 --> 42:17.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I see.
[42:17.260 --> 42:18.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, like in Birmingham.
[42:19.760 --> 42:20.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: It may be.
[42:21.320 --> 42:26.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately, here in the former NYNEX land...
[42:26.260 --> 42:26.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's Poughkeepsie.
[42:27.280 --> 42:27.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: What's that?
[42:27.800 --> 42:27.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[42:28.240 --> 42:28.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's Poughkeepsie, New York.
[42:28.760 --> 42:32.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: New York City was never the trial area for any new technology.
[42:33.000 --> 42:34.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's because we're atypical.
[42:34.300 --> 42:35.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: We don't represent the masses.
[42:35.520 --> 42:44.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: They would always start off in Poughkeepsie, which is in upstate New York, then they would move way the heck out to Long Island, and then they would gradually move into Manhattan and the outer boroughs.
[42:45.420 --> 42:49.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you'd actually get the service without it being tested in that area.
[42:49.660 --> 42:54.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, by the time it got to us, it was already being sold as, like, a tried-and-true service.
[42:54.580 --> 42:55.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I see.
[42:55.160 --> 42:59.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: New York City, for what it's worth, has never been part of any trial, period.
[42:59.940 --> 43:04.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's like when they say, we've redesigned your bill to make it completely illegible because of what you told us.
[43:04.720 --> 43:05.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[43:05.180 --> 43:09.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, and it's like, you know, it's your fault if it doesn't work, you know, and you never said anything to them.
[43:09.260 --> 43:12.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's some idiot someplace that gave them advice that was bad.
[43:13.520 --> 43:16.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're not saying that Birmingham won't be a test area.
[43:16.460 --> 43:23.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: In fact, highly likely it will since one of Motorola's product sectors is in Birmingham.
[43:23.380 --> 43:24.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is now.
[43:24.340 --> 43:28.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is being, I think, the earlier message you read.
[43:28.820 --> 43:30.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's being tested in Birmingham.
[43:31.320 --> 43:31.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[43:31.780 --> 43:37.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was wondering if I would have to notice a trial period here locally before I'm in Auburn.
[43:37.680 --> 43:43.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm not really, my closest major metropolitan area, if you can call it, really, is in Montgomery.
[43:44.260 --> 43:51.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I was just wondering if I would have to see a test period within a locality before it would be, you know.
[43:51.960 --> 43:55.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're probably going to have to test it in Birmingham before they offer it in your area.
[43:55.180 --> 43:57.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: However, you might just call them and ask them, you know.
[43:57.060 --> 43:57.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[43:57.520 --> 43:58.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: They wouldn't really talk about it.
[43:58.740 --> 44:02.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: They said if I wasn't involved in the test, they really couldn't give me any information about it.
[44:03.100 --> 44:03.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[44:03.420 --> 44:09.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I was just wondering if I could wake up tomorrow, you know, and ADSL would be available because the testing, quote-unquote, would be...
[44:09.640 --> 44:12.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, what you've got to do, you've got to be kind of a pest.
[44:12.300 --> 44:14.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just keep calling them and talk to different people.
[44:14.300 --> 44:17.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Eventually you'll find somebody who will talk about it a little bit more than that.
[44:17.200 --> 44:20.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: But never accept, you know, just don't ask us questions as an answer.
[44:20.180 --> 44:20.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[44:20.320 --> 44:23.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, by that time I'd called about six different numbers before.
[44:23.820 --> 44:26.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've only got some business support.
[44:26.920 --> 44:29.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this in future weeks.
[44:29.940 --> 44:30.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[44:30.000 --> 44:31.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: So we'll update people as that happens.
[44:31.640 --> 44:32.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, thanks very much for calling.
[44:32.520 --> 44:33.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to move on to another phone call.
[44:34.660 --> 44:40.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, it's interesting how we're getting calls from, like, all over the place.
[44:40.480 --> 44:40.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[44:40.900 --> 44:42.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: We don't get any New York City calls anymore.
[44:42.660 --> 44:50.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, this person was talking about payphones, and something that really, really annoys me is this new fee for 800 numbers.
[44:50.400 --> 44:51.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have you heard about this?
[44:51.220 --> 44:52.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: We talked about it a couple of weeks ago.
[44:52.480 --> 44:53.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, on the CoCut payphone?
[44:53.500 --> 44:54.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: The FCC.
[44:54.580 --> 45:02.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know what these people have been smoking, but they somehow conclude that it costs 25 cents, or no, actually I think it's more like 30 cents.
[45:02.560 --> 45:06.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, 30 cents per call to an 800 number for a payphone.
[45:06.620 --> 45:10.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: They determined that that's what it costs the payphone owner to call an 800 number.
[45:10.300 --> 45:11.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, guess what?
[45:11.840 --> 45:27.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: That cost is being passed along to the 800 customer, which means that if you have an 800 number, and I happen to have an 800 number with cable and wireless, that's one company, they have this service that they now say, if somebody calls you from a payphone,
[45:27.340 --> 45:28.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: it's going to cost 30 cents more.
[45:28.780 --> 45:29.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[45:29.300 --> 45:29.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[45:29.740 --> 45:30.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's insane.
[45:31.160 --> 45:35.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, why should someone pay more money because of where somebody is calling from?
[45:35.340 --> 45:36.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: It doesn't make any sense.
[45:36.760 --> 45:39.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, of course, I'm disconnecting that number now.
[45:40.380 --> 45:42.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's pointless to have.
[45:43.000 --> 45:44.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: It makes it unaffordable.
[45:45.560 --> 45:49.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: If enough people call, it just keeps adding up, and it's not worthwhile.
[45:50.460 --> 45:53.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, other people have blocked payphones.
[45:53.520 --> 45:54.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, this makes a lot of sense.
[45:54.820 --> 45:57.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Certain companies have blocked payphones from calling their 800 numbers.
[45:57.620 --> 45:59.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know at least one person who has a beeper.
[45:59.300 --> 46:00.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's an 800 number.
[46:00.300 --> 46:02.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can't beep him from a payphone anymore.
[46:02.740 --> 46:03.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: What good is that?
[46:04.240 --> 46:05.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's stupid.
[46:05.420 --> 46:07.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just want to know, where is this money going?
[46:08.220 --> 46:08.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know?
[46:08.640 --> 46:10.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: This extra 30 cents that I'm paying.
[46:10.840 --> 46:11.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right?
[46:12.020 --> 46:12.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Somebody gets that.
[46:13.020 --> 46:14.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Does it go to the payphone owner?
[46:14.800 --> 46:16.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: If so, I want to get a payphone.
[46:16.920 --> 46:17.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right?
[46:17.100 --> 46:26.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to get my own payphone and have people call nothing but 800 numbers on it because I'm not going to be paying anybody for an 800 number, and I'm just going to keep getting all these little 30-cent checks from their phone company for every time somebody does.
[46:27.280 --> 46:28.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: it doesn't make any sense.
[46:29.200 --> 46:36.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, you know, I beg of people, please think about this and figure out what's going on here because it's wrong and it needs to be repealed.
[46:37.420 --> 46:37.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[46:37.780 --> 46:39.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's my speech for tonight.
[46:39.420 --> 46:40.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's go back to the phones.
[46:40.700 --> 46:42.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-279-3400.
[46:42.180 --> 46:42.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[46:42.680 --> 46:43.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[46:43.100 --> 46:43.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where are you calling from?
[46:43.880 --> 46:44.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[46:45.180 --> 46:46.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Long Island, Suffolk County.
[46:46.720 --> 46:47.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ah, okay.
[46:47.420 --> 46:47.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Way out there.
[46:48.660 --> 46:48.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[46:49.120 --> 46:49.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[46:49.820 --> 46:49.960]  No.
[46:50.540 --> 46:51.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the Suffolk border.
[46:51.780 --> 46:52.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[46:52.360 --> 46:52.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's fine.
[46:53.980 --> 46:54.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: How's Route 110?
[46:55.720 --> 46:56.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: How is it?
[46:56.540 --> 46:56.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[46:57.360 --> 46:58.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, I'll look.
[46:58.380 --> 46:59.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Getting clogged up, right?
[46:59.480 --> 46:59.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[46:59.980 --> 47:00.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Probably.
[47:00.560 --> 47:00.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[47:00.840 --> 47:01.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: So what's up?
[47:01.300 --> 47:01.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's on your mind?
[47:02.180 --> 47:04.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm not on the air.
[47:04.240 --> 47:05.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, you are.
[47:05.560 --> 47:06.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have my radio on.
[47:07.120 --> 47:10.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, then you're tuned to the wrong station because you are on the air.
[47:11.080 --> 47:12.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, anyway.
[47:12.540 --> 47:13.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, oh, okay.
[47:13.700 --> 47:14.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's quite a delay.
[47:14.720 --> 47:15.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a delay.
[47:15.500 --> 47:15.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[47:15.740 --> 47:16.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: So please turn on your radio.
[47:16.840 --> 47:17.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: You'll continue to be confused.
[47:18.080 --> 47:18.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[47:18.480 --> 47:19.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me ask you a question.
[47:19.720 --> 47:22.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I had back in the next day.
[47:23.060 --> 47:30.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just recently, I had a phone and, uh, I was, someone was making a lot of long distance calls and it was getting to be too much.
[47:30.140 --> 47:33.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I asked them to get, give me a security, uh, code.
[47:33.280 --> 47:35.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I had AT&T, uh, long distance.
[47:35.980 --> 47:36.300]  Right.
[47:36.480 --> 47:37.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I asked, uh, I'm sorry.
[47:37.880 --> 47:45.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I had, I switched from AT&T to MCI and I asked them to give me a security code and they said, it's just 1,000.
[47:45.660 --> 47:46.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that was it.
[47:46.480 --> 47:48.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: That was their standard number, I guess.
[47:48.340 --> 47:50.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: They gave you a security, a default security code?
[47:51.220 --> 47:58.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, you had to, uh, an access, you know, you had to dial, uh, an access code to get to long distance.
[47:58.560 --> 47:58.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[47:59.420 --> 48:02.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but they have a standard number, 1,000.
[48:02.360 --> 48:04.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like public knowledge and they know that.
[48:04.260 --> 48:04.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wait a minute.
[48:04.700 --> 48:08.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you're saying to, to use long distance, you have to dial a special access code.
[48:08.780 --> 48:09.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: At what point do you dial this code?
[48:10.540 --> 48:12.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, while you're dialing the number.
[48:12.580 --> 48:15.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: After you dial the number, do you get another tone or something like that?
[48:15.180 --> 48:16.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
[48:16.280 --> 48:16.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't recall.
[48:17.180 --> 48:19.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's just a four digit code and the default is 1,000.
[48:20.020 --> 48:20.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[48:20.440 --> 48:21.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me move on.
[48:21.640 --> 48:21.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[48:22.400 --> 48:23.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was, yeah, four digit.
[48:24.080 --> 48:25.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was four digit.
[48:25.300 --> 48:31.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, anyway, uh, you could still pick up the phone and just call long distance.
[48:32.080 --> 48:37.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I asked them, you know, that my bill continued to be higher than I wanted it to be.
[48:37.280 --> 48:38.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I asked them about it.
[48:39.420 --> 48:43.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, I said, oh yes, we do have the date that you requested that.
[48:43.980 --> 48:47.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: I said, yes, but since then there have been long distance calls.
[48:47.020 --> 48:48.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't make any of them.
[48:48.800 --> 48:52.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the other person that would be making them does not know the code.
[48:53.000 --> 48:54.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, does not know.
[48:54.880 --> 48:56.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean can't figure it out.
[48:56.680 --> 48:59.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, wouldn't figure, doesn't know anything about it.
[48:59.340 --> 48:59.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[48:59.580 --> 48:59.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[49:00.120 --> 49:02.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, they said, well, that's not our problem.
[49:02.720 --> 49:02.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not.
[49:02.960 --> 49:08.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: I said, you are the people who gave me, who I asked to put security, you know, some kind of security measure on.
[49:09.600 --> 49:16.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And nobody has dialed this 1000 access code number and you did.
[49:16.560 --> 49:17.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's one point.
[49:18.220 --> 49:20.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And yet still was able to make calls.
[49:20.360 --> 49:24.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the other point is why would you give me a number that's public knowledge?
[49:24.640 --> 49:25.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[49:25.360 --> 49:29.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I, uh, you know, in a sense like in law, you shift the burden of proof.
[49:29.760 --> 49:36.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: I said, wouldn't they shift the burden of proof or not necessarily shift the burden of proof, but shift the burden onto you.
[49:37.360 --> 49:40.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: I asked you to make my line secure for making long distance calls.
[49:41.000 --> 49:41.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, have you tested it?
[49:42.080 --> 49:43.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you have to dial the four digits?
[49:43.420 --> 49:44.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have it anymore.
[49:44.600 --> 49:44.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[49:45.360 --> 49:49.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, my point is with them is, you know, they want more money now.
[49:50.140 --> 49:52.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, I'm not going to pay you.
[49:52.200 --> 49:56.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: I want you to show me, you know, what dates is, okay, this is the date you asked for this.
[49:56.300 --> 49:56.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I said, fine.
[49:56.800 --> 50:01.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And after this date, cause I still have my phone bills after this date, these calls were made.
[50:01.340 --> 50:03.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel I should not have to pay for them.
[50:03.700 --> 50:03.800]  Right.
[50:04.900 --> 50:09.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I said, can you prove to me that the 1000 access code was dialed?
[50:10.500 --> 50:12.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then they don't want to hear any of this.
[50:12.820 --> 50:13.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to participate.
[50:13.640 --> 50:16.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're not, uh, you know, they're not working with me at all.
[50:16.720 --> 50:17.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: They just want their money.
[50:18.100 --> 50:18.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh huh.
[50:18.760 --> 50:21.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't see it that way.
[50:21.360 --> 50:21.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[50:21.640 --> 50:22.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I can understand that.
[50:22.680 --> 50:23.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you have a question?
[50:23.880 --> 50:24.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do I have a question?
[50:24.920 --> 50:25.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[50:25.280 --> 50:27.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what could I do about that?
[50:27.980 --> 50:29.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the public service commission?
[50:29.980 --> 50:31.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, this is AT&T.
[50:31.500 --> 50:34.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: I, it was AT&T or MCI, I believe.
[50:34.340 --> 50:34.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[50:34.640 --> 50:38.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it would be the FCC common carrier bureau that you would need to contact in Washington, DC.
[50:39.420 --> 50:47.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, the ironic thing is you'll probably have to use AT&T to get to them, but, uh, once you do that, you'll be able to, uh, you know, to tell the story to them.
[50:47.640 --> 50:51.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: First of all, giving out a default code is a very, very bad move on their part.
[50:52.020 --> 50:57.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, second off, it doesn't sound like the system really may have worked all that well.
[50:57.620 --> 51:00.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Perhaps there's some kind of a hole in it, perhaps there's some way of, of getting around it.
[51:00.880 --> 51:03.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you mean there's a default code?
[51:03.220 --> 51:06.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: If 1,000 is the same code they're giving to everybody, that's, that's what's known as a default.
[51:06.720 --> 51:09.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can't pick, you know, a code of your own, apparently.
[51:09.760 --> 51:10.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
[51:10.560 --> 51:12.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: So that's something that they need to fix right away.
[51:12.180 --> 51:18.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or even if they gave you a code, this is your number, you remember it, or here we send it to you in a private little letter.
[51:18.560 --> 51:18.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[51:18.940 --> 51:23.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, as, as for the, the problems you're having with numbers, there's all kinds of ways that could be happening.
[51:23.120 --> 51:26.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Somebody could be tapping into your line at any one of a number of points.
[51:26.280 --> 51:27.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thing is, find out...
[51:27.340 --> 51:28.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't made this clear.
[51:28.580 --> 51:28.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[51:28.880 --> 51:32.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's only one other person using the phone, and they don't know phone tricks.
[51:32.360 --> 51:32.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[51:32.660 --> 51:33.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the thing is... It is simple.
[51:33.960 --> 51:39.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: You think only one person can use your phone line, you're wrong, because lots of people can access it at many different points.
[51:39.520 --> 51:39.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[51:39.600 --> 51:43.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that could be what's happening to you now, could be somebody using a cordless phone if you have one.
[51:43.960 --> 51:44.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
[51:44.760 --> 51:46.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know who it was, and I know who they called.
[51:47.100 --> 51:48.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know who made the calls, then?
[51:48.480 --> 51:48.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[51:48.820 --> 51:49.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[51:49.280 --> 51:49.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[51:50.140 --> 51:50.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: So...
[51:50.340 --> 51:53.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: It is saying... Yeah, you're saying there's no way they could have known about the code.
[51:54.320 --> 51:59.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I'm not necessarily saying that they didn't ring up the price of a phone call.
[51:59.660 --> 51:59.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[51:59.940 --> 52:02.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm saying on my phone, in my name...
[52:02.480 --> 52:02.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[52:02.740 --> 52:06.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: When I contracted with the company and asked them to put a security code on...
[52:06.600 --> 52:07.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they didn't do that.
[52:07.660 --> 52:09.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think I am...
[52:09.280 --> 52:12.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is it, is it possible, are you in speaking terms with the person who made the calls?
[52:12.740 --> 52:13.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Am I... Yes.
[52:13.820 --> 52:15.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can you just ask them what they did?
[52:15.700 --> 52:20.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, if they say, hey, I didn't dial in a code, you know, you do have some proof, then.
[52:20.440 --> 52:21.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I'm saying.
[52:21.400 --> 52:25.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: They, they, they didn't, they are ignorant to anything but dialing seven numbers.
[52:25.760 --> 52:26.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[52:26.280 --> 52:28.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe seven and an area code.
[52:28.380 --> 52:30.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Then, then what we're saying is the code didn't work.
[52:30.680 --> 52:31.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: That, too.
[52:31.340 --> 52:35.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's, that's what you need to get across, is that they say they provide the security and they don't.
[52:35.240 --> 52:35.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[52:35.680 --> 52:36.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Listen, good luck, sir.
[52:36.480 --> 52:37.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to move on to another call.
[52:37.640 --> 52:38.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks a lot.
[52:38.160 --> 52:38.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Great show.
[52:38.640 --> 52:38.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[52:38.920 --> 52:39.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Take care.
[52:39.320 --> 52:39.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye.
[52:39.920 --> 52:41.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: That kind of thing happens a lot, you know.
[52:41.800 --> 52:48.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've never actually encountered a regular long distance OnePlus service that asked you to enter a code.
[52:48.000 --> 52:48.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a good idea.
[52:49.020 --> 52:51.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Except, how do you get around, you know, the 10XXX?
[52:51.880 --> 52:54.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or as of next month, 1010XXX.
[52:54.980 --> 52:55.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[52:55.540 --> 52:59.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, that's, that's the carrier access code way of getting around things.
[52:59.640 --> 53:02.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: So it's, you know, there's always going to be a way to make phone calls.
[53:03.000 --> 53:04.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: People have to, have to realize that.
[53:05.200 --> 53:06.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: See if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
[53:06.640 --> 53:06.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[53:07.060 --> 53:07.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[53:07.760 --> 53:08.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where are you calling from?
[53:08.860 --> 53:10.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, well, I guess we'll never know because they hung up.
[53:11.000 --> 53:12.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's go all the way over here.
[53:13.560 --> 53:14.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[53:14.240 --> 53:14.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[53:14.760 --> 53:15.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where are you calling from?
[53:16.100 --> 53:16.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: New York City.
[53:16.820 --> 53:17.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: New York City.
[53:17.640 --> 53:18.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: We've heard of that.
[53:18.180 --> 53:18.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[53:18.360 --> 53:18.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's up?
[53:18.860 --> 53:19.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's on your mind?
[53:20.220 --> 53:21.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, um, this is Rother.
[53:21.860 --> 53:25.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just wanted to know if I could buy a cellular phone with Coke bottle caps.
[53:25.900 --> 53:28.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, he wants to buy a cellular phone with Coke bottle caps.
[53:30.200 --> 53:31.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have no idea what he's talking about.
[53:31.800 --> 53:32.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I don't know.
[53:33.480 --> 53:37.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Every time I look at those Coke bottle caps, it says, sorry, try again.
[53:37.540 --> 53:39.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're a loser, you know?
[53:39.980 --> 53:42.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I just want to drink soda, okay?
[53:42.600 --> 53:46.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't care about these personal attacks or anything like that.
[53:46.320 --> 53:48.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know what's under those caps.
[53:48.200 --> 53:49.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know what you can win.
[53:49.340 --> 53:50.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: All I know is I've never won anything.
[53:51.340 --> 53:53.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's just getting a little bit annoying.
[53:53.300 --> 53:56.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: The only thing I've ever won from soda is more soda.
[53:56.480 --> 53:58.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I had absolutely no idea where to cash it in.
[53:58.860 --> 53:59.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[53:59.160 --> 54:03.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know any stores that take bottle caps that would allow me to say, okay, here's a bottle cap.
[54:03.660 --> 54:06.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll go get a bottle of soda now and I'll just be walking out.
[54:06.280 --> 54:06.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, thanks.
[54:08.020 --> 54:09.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: You ever get those ones that make you pay double?
[54:10.200 --> 54:10.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[54:11.260 --> 54:11.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're lucky.
[54:12.160 --> 54:12.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[54:12.680 --> 54:13.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're really lucky.
[54:14.560 --> 54:15.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[54:15.220 --> 54:15.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[54:15.680 --> 54:16.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[54:16.040 --> 54:16.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where are you calling from?
[54:17.140 --> 54:17.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Birmingham.
[54:17.940 --> 54:18.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Again?
[54:18.340 --> 54:18.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Again?
[54:18.680 --> 54:19.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Look at this.
[54:19.180 --> 54:20.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is this the same person?
[54:20.820 --> 54:23.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is the guy that wrote the ADSL report.
[54:23.160 --> 54:23.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, okay.
[54:23.660 --> 54:25.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is the original starter of all the talk.
[54:25.400 --> 54:25.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
[54:25.760 --> 54:28.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you have about a minute and a half, so make it quick.
[54:28.260 --> 54:28.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[54:29.040 --> 54:30.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Network Neighborhood thing.
[54:30.540 --> 54:31.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't work anymore.
[54:32.060 --> 54:33.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Apparently, they disabled NetBEUI.
[54:33.940 --> 54:34.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[54:34.580 --> 54:34.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[54:34.720 --> 54:35.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or something like that.
[54:36.020 --> 54:37.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a sobering fact.
[54:37.820 --> 54:39.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: What about NetBIOS over TCP/IP?
[54:40.860 --> 54:47.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: That doesn't work, apparently, because two days after they installed mine, that function was gone.
[54:47.800 --> 54:51.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: You couldn't see anybody else on the NetBEUI anymore or on the Network Neighborhood anymore.
[54:51.960 --> 54:53.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: What about IPX for that matter?
[54:53.820 --> 54:56.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: What if there's people that are on your network that are using NetWare?
[54:56.720 --> 54:58.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that works.
[54:58.640 --> 54:59.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[54:59.900 --> 55:00.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it doesn't work.
[55:01.760 --> 55:05.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I couldn't see anything else on Network Neighborhood or anything else.
[55:05.220 --> 55:08.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: All I could know... All I know is, like, you can sniff other boxes...
[55:08.400 --> 55:08.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[55:08.980 --> 55:11.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: ...that are on your same subnet, just like a cable modem you can.
[55:11.600 --> 55:15.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can't wait until they get this here so we could screw around with all kinds of these things.
[55:15.860 --> 55:19.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's pretty smooth, except for, you know, you don't get the bandwidth that they promised you.
[55:19.800 --> 55:25.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, they said between 1.6 and 10 megs with a mean of 6 megs a second, and I'm getting nowhere near that.
[55:25.380 --> 55:29.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: You see, this is part of the whole, you know, test period thing.
[55:29.420 --> 55:29.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: True.
[55:29.680 --> 55:29.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[55:29.920 --> 55:34.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because they're going to be changing things, and people are going to be finding little tricks, and they're going to be fixing them.
[55:35.520 --> 55:37.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: So by the time it gets to us, there won't be anything left.
[55:37.560 --> 55:37.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[55:37.860 --> 55:39.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's worlds faster than ISDN, even.
[55:40.040 --> 55:40.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[55:41.940 --> 55:43.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it's worth it just for that.
[55:44.100 --> 55:45.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's that much faster than ISDN.
[55:45.920 --> 55:46.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[55:46.480 --> 55:59.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really weird, because apparently every line in the area here has ADSL running to it, because I've got a friend that's got, like, three lines, and he took his box, and he plugged it into each one of them, and it still made a connection with the network.
[55:59.580 --> 55:59.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[55:59.880 --> 56:00.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's really weird.
[56:00.900 --> 56:03.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you could take it to somebody else's house and plug it in, and you could use their line.
[56:04.340 --> 56:05.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are they actually paying for it?
[56:06.500 --> 56:06.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[56:06.980 --> 56:09.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: See, the thing is about the security on it, you could plug it into anything.
[56:09.860 --> 56:20.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, the tech came over here and plugged it in, and it logged on the network, got on with DHCP, and he said, all right, this is, like, absolutely free, but you've got to pay for it, otherwise I get, you know, I get fired.
[56:20.140 --> 56:22.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we had to get an account with BellSouth.net.
[56:22.200 --> 56:25.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're using a regular dial-up account to charge us.
[56:25.580 --> 56:30.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: We heard a similar thing going on in, uh... Where was it?
[56:30.640 --> 56:31.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nova Scotia?
[56:31.700 --> 56:33.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, wasn't there something else in BellSouth?
[56:34.440 --> 56:37.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, where, uh, you could, uh...
[56:37.120 --> 56:38.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: What did I mention earlier?
[56:39.080 --> 56:39.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where was it?
[56:39.540 --> 56:40.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Birmingham, Alabama.
[56:40.560 --> 56:40.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was Birmingham?
[56:41.400 --> 56:42.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was the one that sent that email in.
[56:42.820 --> 56:43.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, okay.
[56:43.420 --> 56:44.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's the same person.
[56:44.360 --> 56:44.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[56:44.500 --> 56:45.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Listen, we're out of time.
[56:45.800 --> 56:48.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, what, what, uh, is there a pricing scheme yet, though, for ADSL down there?
[56:49.120 --> 56:50.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it's just $29.95.
[56:50.660 --> 56:54.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: They say it's $49.95, but we're only getting charged $29.95 for it.
[56:54.840 --> 56:55.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's unlimited?
[56:55.780 --> 56:56.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[56:56.240 --> 56:56.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, great.
[56:56.800 --> 56:57.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: 24-7.
[56:57.580 --> 56:58.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for the info.
[56:58.420 --> 57:00.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to, uh, definitely apply it up here.
[57:00.360 --> 57:00.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: No problem.
[57:00.960 --> 57:01.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, take care.
[57:01.640 --> 57:01.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, bye.
[57:02.160 --> 57:03.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, we're out of time.
[57:03.900 --> 57:08.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, but, uh, we got, uh, more calls from Alabama this week than anywhere else, which is kind of, kind of funny.
[57:09.520 --> 57:10.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, programming note.
[57:11.040 --> 57:18.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Housing notebook, which usually comes on after us, will never be coming on after us again, because it's now on Thursday at 7 p.m.
[57:18.840 --> 57:20.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's Housing notebook with Scott Sommer.
[57:20.260 --> 57:22.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: But coming up next is Arab Voices.
[57:22.360 --> 57:26.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, uh, that will be the new program following us every Tuesday night at 9.
[57:26.680 --> 57:33.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, we'll be back again next Tuesday night at 8 for another action-packed edition of Off the Hook.
[57:33.300 --> 57:35.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Until then, this is Emmanuel Goldstein for Phiber OptiK.
[57:35.760 --> 57:36.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have a good night.