Off The Hook - 1998-02-10

[00:01.160 --> 00:06.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on WBAI, and now you have an opportunity to hear them in concert.
[00:07.220 --> 00:12.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Add a special benefit for WBAI on Monday, February 16th.
[00:12.240 --> 00:14.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the Monday holiday of President's Weekend.
[00:15.380 --> 00:17.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Heritage will be holding 4th upstairs at B.
[00:17.960 --> 00:20.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Smith's on 47th Street and 8th Avenue.
[00:21.100 --> 00:27.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: The first part of the show will feature cabaret star Janetta Alston singing the songs of Dinah Washington.
[00:27.480 --> 00:30.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Tickets for the evening are $20 per person.
[00:31.160 --> 00:43.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: For reservations to Sea Heritage and Janetta Alston at 7.30 on Monday, February 16th, call us at area code 212-575-0263.
[00:43.440 --> 00:48.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's 212-575-0263.
[00:48.540 --> 00:50.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: See you at B.
[00:50.580 --> 00:51.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Smith's.
[01:00.320 --> 01:12.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm Samori Marksman, WBAI's Program Director, inviting you to join us on Wednesday, February 11th, 10 a.m., for a special report to the listener with Pacifica's recently appointed chair, Mary Francis Berry.
[01:12.820 --> 01:17.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Ms. Francis Berry will discuss a range of policy issues related to WBAI and the Pacifica Foundation.
[01:18.540 --> 01:21.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: Indeed, we encourage you to place your phone calls during the course of that report.
[01:22.600 --> 01:24.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Later that evening, between 7 p.m.
[01:24.580 --> 01:33.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: and 8 p.m., Ms. Francis Berry will host a meeting at WBAI Studios, located at 505 8th Avenue, near 31st Street in Manhattan.
[01:33.840 --> 01:36.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, the report to the listener is at 10 a.m.
[01:36.760 --> 01:40.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: on Wednesday, February 11th, and the meeting is at 7 to 8 p.m.
[01:41.200 --> 01:47.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: All here on WBAI-FM 99.5 Pacifica Radio in New York.
[01:58.300 --> 02:03.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where it's time for another edition of Off the Hook.
[02:05.040 --> 02:07.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, every week we go through this where the machine doesn't work.
[02:08.720 --> 02:11.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And every week, I get just a little more impatient.
[02:13.200 --> 02:13.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's okay.
[02:14.280 --> 02:15.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's part of technology.
[02:15.100 --> 02:16.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's what it's all about, right?
[02:17.360 --> 02:17.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[04:31.510 --> 04:34.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, the best thing to do is just to start with the important advisories.
[04:34.910 --> 04:41.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: So we can attend to those right away, and people can stop panicking, because we have entirely too much of that right away.
[04:42.910 --> 04:46.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some high-priority news items from the Coast Guard.
[04:47.550 --> 04:51.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: This comes to us a little bit late, January 24th, 1998.
[04:52.490 --> 04:56.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Straight out of the Naval Air Station, a joint reserve base.
[04:56.710 --> 05:09.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: New Orleans Quarter Deck received a telephone call from an individual identifying himself as an AT&T Service Technician who was running a test on our telephone lines.
[05:09.990 --> 05:26.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: He stated that to complete the test, the QMOW, which I guess is a way of saying Quarter Deck, should touch 90 pound sign and then hang up.
[05:28.390 --> 05:31.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Luckily, the QMOW was suspicious and refused.
[05:32.010 --> 05:33.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Either that or he didn't know how to do it and refused.
[05:34.910 --> 05:50.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Upon contacting the telephone company, we were informed that by pushing 90 pound, you end up giving the individual that called you access to your telephone line and allow them to place a long-distance telephone call.
[05:50.710 --> 05:52.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or, you know, it could have been a local call.
[05:52.170 --> 05:53.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't know that for sure.
[05:53.050 --> 05:55.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: They may have just wanted to place a local call.
[05:55.190 --> 05:55.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who knows?
[05:56.390 --> 05:59.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the charge, of course, will appear on your telephone bill.
[05:59.450 --> 06:04.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: We were further informed that this scam has been originating from many of the local jails and prisons.
[06:05.290 --> 06:07.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, we've been asked to pass the word.
[06:07.570 --> 06:08.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Consider the word passed.
[06:09.730 --> 06:12.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, that's one thing we no longer have to panic about.
[06:12.990 --> 06:21.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, where a lot of people do have to panic about is, and I'm sorry to say, actually, you know, I'm not that sorry to say.
[06:21.590 --> 06:22.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really not.
[06:23.470 --> 06:24.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: AOL is raising their prices.
[06:25.610 --> 06:26.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: You hear about this?
[06:27.290 --> 06:30.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're raising their prices, and, um...
[06:31.390 --> 06:32.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: An extra $2 a month.
[06:33.070 --> 06:35.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Phiber Optik, I know this is going to affect you in a big way.
[06:36.030 --> 06:37.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: I might have to cancel one of my accounts.
[06:38.270 --> 06:39.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, boy.
[06:40.550 --> 06:42.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that would certainly hurt them a lot, wouldn't it?
[06:42.790 --> 06:42.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[06:43.270 --> 06:48.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the good news is that this comes from a newsletter called the AOL List.
[06:49.530 --> 06:50.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I guess you can sign on.
[06:51.250 --> 06:52.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not exactly sure how they run this list.
[06:52.970 --> 06:53.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how I got on it.
[06:54.170 --> 06:56.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes I get on the list that I don't mind being on.
[06:56.190 --> 06:56.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is one of them.
[06:57.930 --> 07:00.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: AOL-list at cloud9.net.
[07:00.170 --> 07:03.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what they're running it on, if it's Major Domo or Listserv or whatever.
[07:03.670 --> 07:05.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can figure it out and figure out how to subscribe.
[07:07.150 --> 07:10.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: 10% price increase was announced Monday for AOL's dial-up customers.
[07:10.710 --> 07:21.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: The good news is that you have integrated AOL more and more into your daily lives, a smug Steve Case wrote in a letter to subscribers.
[07:21.870 --> 07:23.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: The bad news.
[07:23.550 --> 07:30.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Starting in April, dial-up customers will pay an extra $2 a month, $24 per year, to access AOL.
[07:30.630 --> 07:33.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's $24 more per year, not $24 in total a year.
[07:33.690 --> 07:39.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: The change comes at a time when studies indicate AOL has one of the worst performance records in the industry.
[07:39.190 --> 07:52.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: On average, at least 30% of calls to AOL failed to connect between June and November, PC Week reports, citing one study showing call failure rates as high as 41%.
[07:53.030 --> 08:02.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a November survey by PC Week ranked AOL as having the worst performance with the worst speed of repair, the least knowledgeable technical support staff, and the lowest customer satisfaction score.
[08:02.910 --> 08:03.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Talk about consistency.
[08:04.330 --> 08:04.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[08:04.990 --> 08:08.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Only 18% of the users surveyed felt AOL's connections were reliable.
[08:09.910 --> 08:11.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: You really do have an AOL account, don't you?
[08:11.790 --> 08:12.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[08:12.430 --> 08:13.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: I use it all the time.
[08:13.490 --> 08:19.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, but you do have, all sarcasm aside, you do have somewhere hidden an AOL account that you can use.
[08:20.090 --> 08:20.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Me personally?
[08:20.850 --> 08:22.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, maybe you don't...
[08:22.070 --> 08:25.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not under your name, but it's an account that you do use.
[08:25.310 --> 08:27.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I personally do not subscribe to AOL.
[08:27.490 --> 08:28.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: You do not subscribe.
[08:28.270 --> 08:29.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here.
[08:30.450 --> 08:36.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just saying, for the sake of the people listening, you do on occasion use America Online.
[08:36.390 --> 08:37.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Very, very...
[08:37.050 --> 08:46.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Without subscribing to their policies, without endorsing their beliefs, you have on occasion actually found yourself sitting in front of a terminal using America Online.
[08:46.010 --> 08:47.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have used AOL.
[08:47.170 --> 08:47.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Voluntarily.
[08:47.870 --> 08:48.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Voluntarily.
[08:48.410 --> 08:49.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have used AOL.
[08:49.110 --> 08:49.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[08:49.690 --> 08:57.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, with that out of the way, are you one of the 18% of the users who feel that their connections are reliable?
[08:59.030 --> 08:59.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[09:00.470 --> 09:01.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Take your time answering.
[09:01.730 --> 09:02.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't...
[09:02.190 --> 09:04.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't used AOL in months.
[09:04.870 --> 09:05.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[09:05.630 --> 09:07.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: So you wish to avoid the question?
[09:08.210 --> 09:08.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh...
[09:08.730 --> 09:10.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I feign ignorance.
[09:11.030 --> 09:11.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[09:12.290 --> 09:13.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Pretty convincingly, too.
[09:14.070 --> 09:21.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, significantly, the announcement about the price increase came 10 days after AOL acquired control of CompuServe subscribers.
[09:21.390 --> 09:23.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bet you didn't know that, CompuServe subscribers.
[09:23.550 --> 09:24.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: You've been controlled by AOL.
[09:24.710 --> 09:28.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, the monopoly pricing has begun, according to one AOL watch reader.
[09:29.350 --> 09:29.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh...
[09:29.590 --> 09:34.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Friday, AOL also announced plans to start delivering advertisements to CompuServe subscribers.
[09:34.750 --> 09:35.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, joy.
[09:36.230 --> 09:36.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[09:36.710 --> 09:43.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Even though three days earlier, CompuServe subscribers received email from Steve Case promising to preserve the service's look and feel.
[09:44.050 --> 09:44.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh...
[09:44.910 --> 09:48.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Case's message concluded with, This is a non-reply mailbox.
[09:48.830 --> 09:50.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Messages sent to it will be returned.
[09:51.410 --> 09:54.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Subscribers are expected to bear the brunt of AOL's push for advertising revenue.
[09:55.030 --> 10:03.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Unfortunately, high-bandwidth ad banners in chat rooms currently strain the memory capacity of their subscribers' computers, a point AOL staffers privately acknowledge.
[10:05.470 --> 10:05.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[10:05.950 --> 10:15.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting website you might want to check out www.aolsucks.org Yeah, www.aolsucks.org supposedly has all kinds of interesting, uh...
[10:15.890 --> 10:16.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: perspectives.
[10:17.250 --> 10:18.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we'll be, uh...
[10:18.130 --> 10:20.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: talking about sites like that in just a little bit.
[10:20.550 --> 10:22.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Subscribers are becoming cynical.
[10:22.230 --> 10:31.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: One recent comment suggests, Funny how Steve Case keeps bragging about all the profits AOL is making and how much revenue the ads are generating, yet they still have to raise prices to make money.
[10:32.470 --> 10:35.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: And AOL still has little financial justification for their rate hike.
[10:35.630 --> 10:38.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: AOL is relatively flush with cash, the Wall Street Journal reports.
[10:38.910 --> 10:51.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: It recently sold a debt issue of $350 million and received $175 million from the sale of its third main division Internet access provider, ANS, to WorldCom Incorporated.
[10:51.570 --> 10:53.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: WorldCom being those people that just buy everything.
[10:55.170 --> 10:56.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Watch out for them.
[10:56.270 --> 10:58.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're buying things left and right.
[10:58.930 --> 11:00.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: AOL is pricing themselves out of the market.
[11:01.570 --> 11:06.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Earthlink chairman, CEO told, I guess I don't give his name unless his name is CEO.
[11:06.370 --> 11:07.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think so.
[11:07.590 --> 11:15.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Earthlink chairman, CEO, okay, told Reuters, they already have hundreds of thousands of people churning off their service every month.
[11:15.810 --> 11:21.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now I think a lot of people who are on the fence will be pushed off by this price increase.
[11:21.690 --> 11:29.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: In anticipation of a negative response, AOL's billing, FAQ, included answers to the most important question of all, what if I decide to cancel my account?
[11:30.290 --> 11:35.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's answer, phone, 1-888-265-8008.
[11:35.470 --> 11:40.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Otherwise, customers will face a $2 a month price increase starting in April.
[11:40.970 --> 11:44.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Warmest regards, or warm regards, actually, case's message concluded.
[11:45.830 --> 11:47.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Nice homespun company you got there.
[11:47.970 --> 11:48.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[11:50.030 --> 11:50.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: AOL anti...
[11:50.990 --> 12:04.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess hatred has been permeating throughout its existence, you know, but now with most people using the Internet, you know, you have to ask yourself why use AOL, you know, and like a caller said many months ago, where's?
[12:05.590 --> 12:06.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Remember that caller?
[12:06.410 --> 12:06.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[12:07.470 --> 12:09.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the reason to be on AOL.
[12:09.950 --> 12:11.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if it's still worth it.
[12:13.570 --> 12:14.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[12:14.330 --> 12:21.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here's an interesting survey released by the GILC, the Global Internet Liberty Campaign.
[12:21.910 --> 12:32.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: An international coalition of civil liberties organizations has released the first comprehensive review of cryptography policies around the globe.
[12:32.290 --> 12:39.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cryptography and liberty, an international survey of encryption policy, is based on a survey of more than 200 countries and regions.
[12:39.970 --> 12:48.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: The purpose of the survey was to determine whether countries are limiting the availability of new technologies that are used by Internet users and others to protect personal privacy.
[12:49.170 --> 12:55.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: The GILC favors the unrestricted use of cryptography to protect personal privacy.
[12:55.210 --> 12:59.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: The group has urged national governments not to adopt controls on the technology.
[12:59.510 --> 13:04.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: And according to their report, most countries in the world do not have controls on the use of cryptography.
[13:05.110 --> 13:11.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: In the vast majority of countries, cryptography may be freely used, manufactured, and sold without restriction.
[13:11.670 --> 13:23.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: The report says that recent trends in cryptography policy suggest greater liberalization in the use of this technology, which was originally controlled during the Cold War for reasons of national security.
[13:23.470 --> 13:38.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: A rough breakdown of the countries into five categories from red through yellow to green, indicating how restrictive the policies toward encryption are, found that most countries are grouped toward the green end of the spectrum, while a handful of countries fall in the red category.
[13:38.050 --> 13:45.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: And those countries include Belarus, China, Israel, Pakistan, Russia, and Singapore.
[13:46.270 --> 13:50.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: The GILC report notes the surprising policies of the United States.
[13:51.080 --> 13:59.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Given that virtually all of the other democratic industrial nations have few, if any, controls on the use of cryptography, the report suggests that the U.S. 
[13:59.070 --> 14:07.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: position may be explained by the dominant role that state security agencies in the United States hold in the development of encryption policy.
[14:07.670 --> 14:09.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sounds really scary when they say it like that.
[14:13.410 --> 14:20.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: The group warns that law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and elsewhere will continue to push for an electronic key management infrastructure that would expand electronic surveillance of private communications.
[14:20.750 --> 14:31.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: The group urges the development of a public education campaign to inform various political, labor, and social groups on the benefits of and techniques for using encryption.
[14:32.130 --> 14:37.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want more information on this, connect to their website, www.gilc.org.
[14:38.150 --> 14:42.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that would be in everyone's best interest for people to become educated on that.
[14:44.170 --> 14:45.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here's something for you, Fiverr.
[14:45.370 --> 14:46.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can have that.
[14:46.250 --> 14:47.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a big, long document.
[14:48.830 --> 14:50.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a piece of chain mail I received.
[14:50.870 --> 14:57.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know how you get chain mail that tells you like, you know, Mrs. Fields cookie recipe or some sort of stupid get-rich-quick scheme?
[14:57.570 --> 15:05.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this one was actually interesting because it has to do with a message that somebody got from somebody else and then they pass it on to somebody else saying, hey, can you believe I got a message from this person?
[15:06.010 --> 15:08.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then they pass it on to more people saying, wow, look at this.
[15:08.690 --> 15:09.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a small world, isn't it?
[15:09.930 --> 15:19.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it just kept growing and growing and growing and growing and eventually somebody sent it to me and I circled the part that's of interest and you have just gotten to it after thumbing through about 50 pages.
[15:19.810 --> 15:19.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[15:19.990 --> 15:21.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you see what it is?
[15:21.330 --> 15:25.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: It says it's a message that was from Monica Lewinsky.
[15:25.770 --> 15:26.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Does that name ring a bell?
[15:27.230 --> 15:27.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[15:28.210 --> 15:30.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't I believe it's a real message?
[15:30.210 --> 15:41.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's a real message because look at that email address and you may say the email address I have checked with people that I asked at random and they say it's okay so give out that address.
[15:41.170 --> 15:42.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go right ahead because I don't think it works anymore anyway.
[15:42.830 --> 15:45.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's M as in Monica Right.
[15:45.430 --> 15:56.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: And Lewinsky without the Y at the end at pagate.pa.osd.mil .mil I checked it out and that's a real machine.
[15:56.670 --> 16:03.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that whole thing of leaving out the Y you know just so they have an 8 character username that's good.
[16:04.150 --> 16:06.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a good touch and that tells me that this is real.
[16:07.750 --> 16:07.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well.
[16:12.830 --> 16:17.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean that's been passed around pretty much everywhere so it's no big deal saying it here anymore.
[16:17.470 --> 16:19.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is possible that someone else has that name.
[16:19.430 --> 16:20.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, what'd she say?
[16:22.030 --> 16:23.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was email from somebody to somebody else.
[16:24.070 --> 16:25.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it says that's hilarious.
[16:25.650 --> 16:26.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: How are you, Josh?
[16:26.730 --> 16:27.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's going on in your life?
[16:28.010 --> 16:28.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Monica.
[16:28.570 --> 16:29.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: How are you, Josh?
[16:29.890 --> 16:31.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's going on in your life?
[16:31.250 --> 16:31.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Josh Gross.
[16:32.230 --> 16:32.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Josh Gross.
[16:33.070 --> 16:35.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll bet he has some answers to some questions being asked out there.
[16:35.730 --> 16:36.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[16:36.690 --> 16:38.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Forward that one to Ken Starr and see what happens.
[16:39.810 --> 16:40.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[16:40.830 --> 16:41.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Continuing right along here.
[16:43.350 --> 17:03.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: The American Civil Liberties Union and a columnist for the San Francisco Examiner are among eight plaintiffs challenging the constitutionality of a decision by a library in Loudoun County, Virginia and I apologize if I'm pronouncing that wrong to use filtering software to block certain Internet sites from its publicly available computers.
[17:03.850 --> 17:19.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: The X-STOP software which is intended to screen out obscene material or sexually explicit language is blocking sites that include some mainstream newspapers, a Methodist church, a University Women's Association, and a safe sex page for teenagers.
[17:19.590 --> 17:24.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: An ACLU attorney says we should hold libraries to the higher standards of the First Amendment.
[17:24.750 --> 17:28.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: You simply can't block books that are constitutionally protected.
[17:29.030 --> 17:35.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: The chair of the libraries board says the library has the right to choose the material in its library.
[17:35.730 --> 17:38.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: We could become the financers of pornography.
[17:41.840 --> 17:43.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Spirited debate continues.
[17:45.300 --> 17:57.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, and as an update to last week's show where we talked about a kid who got kicked out of school, expelled, expelled from school for writing an article about hacking in his school newspaper.
[17:57.180 --> 17:58.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, it wasn't even his school newspaper.
[17:58.640 --> 18:00.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was an unofficial newspaper.
[18:01.360 --> 18:10.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Someone forwarded us from the ACLU, www.aclu.org, another good site to check out what we are allowed to say in a school paper.
[18:10.940 --> 18:15.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Keep in mind, private schools have more leeway to set their own rules on free expression than public schools do.
[18:16.440 --> 18:19.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: It depends on whether the school is paying for producing the paper.
[18:20.020 --> 18:33.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: If it is a completely student-run paper that you want to hand out in school, the school may not censor what you say or stop you from handing it out as long as the paper is not indecent and you do not materially and substantially disrupt school activities.
[18:33.480 --> 18:37.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: The school may place reasonable limits on the time, place, or manner of handing it out.
[18:37.560 --> 18:41.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: The same rule applies to leaflets or buttons that you have created and paid for.
[18:42.720 --> 18:44.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's for an unofficial paper.
[18:44.860 --> 18:47.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: They may not prevent you from doing that.
[18:47.380 --> 18:56.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: In the official school paper, however, you might have a problem publishing an article that discusses important but controversial issues like sex education, condom distribution, or drug abuse.
[18:57.220 --> 19:02.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's because of a 1988 Supreme Court decision, Hazelwood School District versus Kulmiar.
[19:02.860 --> 19:18.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: It said, the public school administrators can censor student speech in official school publications or activities like a school play, art exhibit, newspaper, or yearbook if the officials think students are saying something inappropriate or harmful even if it is not vulgar and does not disrupt.
[19:19.380 --> 19:27.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, that's pretty interesting but it didn't stop this kid from being kicked out of school for publishing this article or an unofficial paper.
[19:27.960 --> 19:45.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's interesting, originally he had been kicked out and he took it to court and they found that it was unwarranted to kick him out and then the school appealed and the final decision was that yes, they can expel him from school for a year for writing an article about hacking.
[19:46.040 --> 19:47.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Amazing world we live in.
[19:48.440 --> 19:53.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, and that's pretty much it for updates this week.
[19:54.860 --> 19:55.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have Bernie S.
[19:56.060 --> 19:56.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: with us on the phone line.
[19:56.960 --> 19:58.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bernie, good evening.
[19:58.580 --> 19:58.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: How are you doing?
[19:59.260 --> 20:00.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm doing good in Philadelphia.
[20:00.660 --> 20:03.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: We had fun in Philadelphia this past Friday.
[20:03.660 --> 20:06.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: We had a lot of fun and then we had a big surprise walking up the street.
[20:06.560 --> 20:07.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: We sure did.
[20:07.180 --> 20:08.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: A telephone was ringing.
[20:08.840 --> 20:09.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Payphone.
[20:09.280 --> 20:18.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: A payphone was ringing and we picked it up off the wall and there was somebody on the other end and they were talking to us and they were, you know, a total stranger.
[20:18.920 --> 20:19.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: You ever done this?
[20:19.360 --> 20:23.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: You ever pick up a payphone and just start talking to whoever it is that happens to be calling a payphone?
[20:24.640 --> 20:26.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: They started talking to me like they knew me.
[20:27.360 --> 20:30.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, well, you know, I'm just sort of hanging out, not really doing anything.
[20:30.200 --> 20:34.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then the question was raised, who's the gig next to you with the laser porter?
[20:35.740 --> 20:39.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I won't say who that was but at that point I realized this person can see us.
[20:40.560 --> 20:47.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I said, oh boy, that sure is fun that we're being spied on by somebody who's calling payphones and making witty remarks to the people passing by.
[20:49.460 --> 21:04.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, basically, to make a long story short, we discovered that this person knew who both you and I were, I guess by listening to the hacker community or whatever, and we figured out what window he was sitting in, too.
[21:04.560 --> 21:07.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: We were able to, like, you know, shine laser pointers at him and things like that.
[21:07.460 --> 21:07.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was fun.
[21:08.600 --> 21:12.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess, you know, it makes you realize it's a small world, just like Monica Lewinsky.
[21:12.580 --> 21:13.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Purely coincidence?
[21:13.960 --> 21:15.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: You think it wasn't a coincidence?
[21:15.240 --> 21:16.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I don't know.
[21:17.420 --> 21:19.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just, uh, life is full of coincidences.
[21:19.300 --> 21:19.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[21:19.740 --> 21:21.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, Philadelphia's a pretty neat place.
[21:21.640 --> 21:24.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, and, uh, I don't know.
[21:24.440 --> 21:25.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: I always have fun when I go down there.
[21:26.960 --> 21:31.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a guest with us tonight who is also on the telephone.
[21:31.860 --> 21:33.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hopefully this will work out when we start taking phone calls.
[21:34.400 --> 21:59.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, this is Owen Davis who, uh, runs the website www.nynexsucks.com But more importantly, because there is no more NYNEX, he also runs the website www.bellatlanticsucks.com But, what I understand, if this, uh, and correct me if I'm wrong, you did not originally have that particular website.
[22:00.000 --> 22:03.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bell Atlantic actually went out and registered bellatlanticsucksucks.com.
[22:03.440 --> 22:03.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that true?
[22:04.540 --> 22:05.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can you hear me?
[22:05.540 --> 22:06.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, can you hear me?
[22:06.720 --> 22:07.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[22:07.360 --> 22:10.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're talking on Bell Atlantic phone line, so, uh, we have to be careful.
[22:10.260 --> 22:11.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: No problem.
[22:11.700 --> 22:12.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: No problem.
[22:12.160 --> 22:30.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, yeah, in fact, what happened was, um, we registered NYNEXSucks early on, and, uh, when the merger, when there was talk of the merger, I looked up bellatlanticsucksucks.com, and in fact, it had been registered by Bell Atlantic, and, um, they actually,
[22:30.160 --> 22:32.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: uh, didn't pay their Internet bill.
[22:33.700 --> 22:44.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we, we were watching it fairly closely, and when it went back into the pool, we, we did register it, and it's actually, you know, it's now directed to our site.
[22:45.020 --> 23:00.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, unfortunately, in the, in the recent issue of, I think, Barron's and Computer Telephony and a couple of other magazines, um, it got picked up that Bell Atlantic actually had registered the site, you know, to prevent something from happening like NYNEX sucks,
[23:00.240 --> 23:02.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: but that is totally misinformed.
[23:03.020 --> 23:08.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so the story is that they originally registered the site, they didn't pay their fee, and then you picked it up when it expired.
[23:09.100 --> 23:11.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, of course, there's different ways to spell sucks.
[23:11.640 --> 23:18.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: They could have done S-U-X instead of S-U-C-K-S, you know, and, and, and run around you that way.
[23:18.880 --> 23:24.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: My guess is they were, they could have been influenced a little bit about, you know, the spelling on NYNEX sucks as well.
[23:24.400 --> 23:26.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, clearly that was part of the deal.
[23:26.040 --> 23:28.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, okay, tell us something about the two sites.
[23:28.740 --> 23:30.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are they the same site now?
[23:30.280 --> 23:31.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, they're the same site now.
[23:31.760 --> 23:32.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[23:32.240 --> 23:33.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're basically just redirected.
[23:33.720 --> 23:35.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, as they merge, you merge as well.
[23:35.580 --> 23:35.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[23:37.860 --> 23:57.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I mean, you know, we are a new media company called Thinking Media and our livelihood is dependent on connectivity and unfortunately we have to depend on f*cking Bose Network that is, it is, you know, old and terrible and et cetera.
[23:59.220 --> 24:06.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: From getting our first T1 installed took something like six or seven months and it was just absurd.
[24:07.320 --> 24:20.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so now, basically what you can do is when you go there, you can both submit, there's, submit a story about basically what happened to you which are absolutely hilarious.
[24:21.640 --> 24:34.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: In addition, you can get, you know, some helpful information about alternative phone carriers in New York City and folks to help you out in case you're having a problem with NYNEX such as the President's Hotline and a couple of other resources.
[24:35.100 --> 24:35.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[24:36.040 --> 24:44.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, now, tell us something about, I don't know, what was it that really inspired you to start the site itself?
[24:44.060 --> 24:45.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Was there one final thing?
[24:45.380 --> 24:46.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it really was our T1.
[24:46.960 --> 24:48.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, we needed a T1.
[24:48.100 --> 24:49.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're a new media company.
[24:49.640 --> 24:55.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: We build websites and do all sorts of Java-based applications for the Internet.
[24:55.300 --> 24:58.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we didn't have a T1.
[24:58.300 --> 25:04.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: We didn't have a line coming into a server to work with at all.
[25:04.500 --> 25:05.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we couldn't get one.
[25:06.180 --> 25:08.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it was just unbelievably frustrating.
[25:08.680 --> 25:10.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: What was their reason for not giving you one?
[25:10.180 --> 25:15.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, one was is that the CO was over capacity so that they had to do they had to
[25:20.140 --> 25:21.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: reinstall additional lines.
[25:21.860 --> 25:25.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then winter came around and they didn't want to dig up the street during winter.
[25:25.960 --> 25:28.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so then they wanted us to wait until it got a little warmer.
[25:29.040 --> 25:53.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the whole thing was just so totally ridiculous and absurd that it just threw me over the edge especially because I had dealt with them in terms of just putting it you know just the regular putting in the phone line is just you know I ran the business from a payphone for the first month because they just couldn't get I would go down to the corner of 5th Avenue and 20th Street and make all my
[25:53.860 --> 25:56.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: phone calls you know catch up with everybody.
[25:57.380 --> 25:58.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it was ridiculous.
[25:58.960 --> 26:00.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was just totally absurd.
[26:00.580 --> 26:07.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the T1 thing I had dealt with them in the past in terms of doing data stuff and I just basically freaked.
[26:08.740 --> 26:13.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now lots of people have contributed to the site since you put it up.
[26:13.980 --> 26:14.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Huge.
[26:14.720 --> 26:14.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[26:15.180 --> 26:15.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Huge numbers.
[26:15.760 --> 26:16.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: By huge.
[26:16.460 --> 26:17.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Give us an example.
[26:17.720 --> 26:26.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know it gets visited by a couple thousand discreet visitors a month and it's been up for you know it's probably been up for a year and a half now.
[26:26.460 --> 26:27.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Close maybe to two years.
[26:27.960 --> 26:29.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Any official reaction from the telecoms?
[26:30.100 --> 26:53.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean when we first put it up we did get a call from the general council and he said you know you've really got to whatever and it really didn't go anywhere since then and then when we did take the bellatlantic sucks name we also got a letter from their general council saying you have to turn over everything and you go us all the documents and blah blah blah and we basically said like I don't
[26:53.600 --> 27:14.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: think so and this is fair use and truth is the best defense so it's not liable so that was it we never heard back now okay now you encourage people to submit stories correct of the various things that have happened give us a story give us an example Some of the typical things that happen.
[27:14.180 --> 27:18.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, the typical story is, there's both residential and consumer.
[27:19.000 --> 27:21.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, I mean, residential and business.
[27:22.380 --> 27:26.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, the typical story on the residential side is, you know, I'm waiting at home.
[27:27.440 --> 27:28.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: NYNEX has not come.
[27:30.220 --> 27:32.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're, you know, they said they were going to come.
[27:32.180 --> 27:34.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: And somebody basically details a log.
[27:34.580 --> 27:41.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, just every minute of the day, like, they called, they put in the wrong, they went to the wrong apartment number.
[27:41.320 --> 27:50.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: They did, like, all of the stupid things that happen absolutely, like, all the time, in terms of NYNEX putting in a phone line, are just documented.
[27:50.600 --> 28:04.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of my kind of, like, favorite things actually happened to me, which was NYNEX had left, they had installed an internal web server and run an ad campaign online where you could sign up for ISDN.
[28:04.640 --> 28:05.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know if you remember.
[28:05.780 --> 28:07.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was a Bell Atlantic campaign.
[28:07.380 --> 28:09.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: You clicked on this banner and it sent you to this place.
[28:09.800 --> 28:17.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: And all you had to do was basically look at the URL of the root of the ad banner.
[28:17.980 --> 28:22.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: And basically, their entire Lotus database was sitting open to the Internet.
[28:22.780 --> 28:31.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: So what we did is we basically went and printed everybody's name just to have proof about...
[28:31.080 --> 28:32.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: This was unbelievable.
[28:32.880 --> 28:39.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: People's phone numbers, people's, you know, where to reach them, what their orders were in terms of ISDN lines.
[28:40.040 --> 28:42.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, it was absolutely ridiculous.
[28:42.860 --> 28:47.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I did, you know, I actually notified them that they should fix it.
[28:47.300 --> 28:51.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: It took them a couple weeks to fix this thing, which was the most amazing thing.
[28:51.100 --> 28:52.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was wide open for a couple of weeks.
[28:52.760 --> 28:53.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wide open.
[28:53.480 --> 28:56.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Once they knew about it, even, like, it just sat there.
[28:56.720 --> 28:58.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they probably didn't know how to stop it.
[28:58.900 --> 28:59.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know what?
[28:59.680 --> 29:01.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was, like, so absurd.
[29:01.260 --> 29:03.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, you just can't even imagine something like that happening.
[29:04.460 --> 29:05.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, anyway.
[29:05.640 --> 29:07.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's hard to imagine, but...
[29:07.260 --> 29:10.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: It is just unbelievable to imagine.
[29:10.060 --> 29:16.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, the state of affairs in terms of, like, what the network, what the data network looks like in terms of going into people's homes.
[29:16.300 --> 29:26.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, give us an example, though, of a typical consumer who has, you know, a fairly reasonable request and having to go through complete hell to get to the stage that he wants to get to.
[29:26.160 --> 29:26.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Absolutely.
[29:26.660 --> 29:30.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Somebody writes in, you know, they stay home from work.
[29:31.020 --> 29:35.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: NYNEX promises they're going to come between 9 and 12 or whatever it is.
[29:35.420 --> 29:38.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or they... I don't remember what the time is.
[29:38.400 --> 29:43.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, and they either show up and the line...
[29:43.400 --> 29:48.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Then they leave and the line is crossed with somebody else, which means, right, then they have to come back, right?
[29:48.740 --> 29:51.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's like, it's one story just after another.
[29:51.860 --> 29:52.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, they...
[29:52.560 --> 29:55.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's the most common story, where you stay home from work and they don't show up.
[29:55.460 --> 29:56.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: That happens to everybody.
[29:56.640 --> 29:56.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[29:56.880 --> 29:58.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: It happens every... I mean, you can expect that.
[29:59.800 --> 30:02.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I want something that's, like, above and beyond that.
[30:02.340 --> 30:05.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's the kind of quality service we've come to expect from NYNEX and...
[30:05.800 --> 30:06.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no.
[30:06.160 --> 30:07.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is... they actually came.
[30:07.360 --> 30:09.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: They just crossed the lines with somebody else.
[30:09.280 --> 30:09.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[30:09.380 --> 30:11.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they come and then they break it even more.
[30:11.220 --> 30:11.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[30:11.760 --> 30:11.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[30:12.160 --> 30:13.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: They'll, like, give you something.
[30:13.640 --> 30:14.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: They'll cross the line.
[30:14.780 --> 30:15.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: You got to call them back.
[30:16.140 --> 30:16.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: They come back.
[30:16.980 --> 30:20.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, or, you know, you see a NYNEX, can you please help me?
[30:20.400 --> 30:22.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the guy says, you know, of course I can't help you.
[30:22.500 --> 30:25.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, you've got to phone it in and go through the whole deal and blah, blah, blah.
[30:25.780 --> 30:42.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which, you know, like, the stories, you know, I actually should have printed some, but if you do go to the site, people are actually quite excellent about detailing, you know, minute by minute, all of the phone calls, the rudeness of, like, getting somebody in touch, screaming at them, like, please, like, just f*cking help me.
[30:44.780 --> 30:50.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because this guy was here, fixed my line, and I need this to do whatever, whatever it may be.
[30:50.320 --> 30:50.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[30:50.540 --> 30:52.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, and I've got to remind you, this is not free radio.
[30:53.040 --> 30:53.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay?
[30:53.600 --> 30:56.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: So you've got to be careful with the language you use.
[30:56.240 --> 30:56.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, no problem.
[30:56.900 --> 30:57.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[30:59.120 --> 31:01.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have a favorite NYNEX story myself.
[31:02.580 --> 31:03.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[31:03.400 --> 31:04.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure we all do.
[31:04.460 --> 31:07.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm a, I guess, a NYNEX refugee.
[31:08.220 --> 31:18.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I had a four-year career with NYNEX before the division I worked for, which was actually here in Philadelphia, or at least the office was, in the late 80s.
[31:18.740 --> 31:23.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And our largest client was DuPont Corporation.
[31:23.820 --> 31:33.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the regional vice president of this division of DuPont needed a workstation and needed one now.
[31:33.960 --> 31:38.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we were in the business of setting up networks and selling PCs, that sort of thing.
[31:38.580 --> 31:47.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the salesperson didn't have a computer available, so he stole one from one of his sales co-workers' desks.
[31:48.320 --> 32:12.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And unfortunately, this particular machine, belonging to kind of a nasty male salesperson who enjoyed hardcore pornography, had a program which, when you booted the computer up, generated a particularly graphic, sexual, animated sequence.
[32:13.040 --> 32:24.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: The NYNEX employee who stole this computer and put it on the desk of this regional vice president of DuPont didn't think to even look on the hard drive to see what was on there.
[32:24.660 --> 32:28.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: And set her up with this machine and left.
[32:29.320 --> 32:54.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it wasn't long before Ivan Seidenberg, who at that time was second-in-command at NYNEX Business Centers and now is in charge of all of Bell Atlantic, got a phone call from the president of DuPont screaming about this woman who's like third-in-command at DuPont or something,
[32:55.060 --> 32:57.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: having this pornography foisted on her desk.
[32:57.220 --> 32:58.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And heads rolled.
[32:59.000 --> 33:01.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a miracle they didn't lose the account over that.
[33:01.840 --> 33:11.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it was pretty interesting to see the kind of just gross negligence and ineptitude that the NYNEX...
[33:11.980 --> 33:13.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that ineptitude?
[33:13.580 --> 33:14.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: It sounds kind of calculating to me.
[33:15.280 --> 33:17.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, no, it was definitely...
[33:17.120 --> 33:18.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: They just didn't think.
[33:18.800 --> 33:19.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think they would have...
[33:19.960 --> 33:24.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because both of those people had a lot to lose if that account were gone.
[33:24.040 --> 33:34.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Speaking with Owen Davis, who runs www.bellatlanticsucks.com, and you might want to go over there and see some fun stories and submit some of your own.
[33:34.400 --> 33:39.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Owen, do all the stories that get submitted wind up getting published, or are they edited in any way?
[33:39.100 --> 33:51.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, actually, one of the things that we are fairly careful about is not to moderate or censor or any of that because we don't want to kind of be involved in the content of the site.
[33:51.240 --> 33:57.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: So there is, at times, people post some things that are just kind of useless.
[33:57.940 --> 34:00.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: But for the most part, everything...
[34:00.120 --> 34:04.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or for 100% of the part, everything that does get submitted gets posted to the site.
[34:04.580 --> 34:07.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it organized in any kind of a way, by month, by...
[34:07.860 --> 34:09.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's organized chronologically.
[34:09.520 --> 34:14.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's broken into both consumer and resident and business.
[34:14.440 --> 34:19.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Has anything changed at all since the acquisition of NYNEX by Bell Atlantic?
[34:19.200 --> 34:20.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have things improved, gotten worse?
[34:20.500 --> 34:25.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, I mean, the infrastructure is still entirely the same.
[34:26.120 --> 34:30.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: And really, nothing has changed for the better.
[34:31.180 --> 34:32.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's just...
[34:32.440 --> 34:37.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now you just have James Earl Jones on directory assistance and it takes 20 seconds.
[34:38.020 --> 34:38.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's cool, isn't it?
[34:38.740 --> 34:38.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Log.
[34:39.200 --> 34:41.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, why does it take so long?
[34:41.080 --> 34:43.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: It takes so long to get directory assistance, doesn't it?
[34:43.660 --> 34:45.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I want to try this right now.
[34:45.200 --> 34:54.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hopefully we won't lose you guys because we have two of you on the phone at the same time and the way this phone system is set up, you're on the two important lines that never get hung up on.
[34:54.520 --> 34:56.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: So we're going to try to get directory assistance here.
[34:57.480 --> 34:58.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've got a timer right here.
[34:59.420 --> 35:00.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me see if I can...
[35:00.720 --> 35:01.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I figured out how to use it.
[35:02.000 --> 35:05.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to time from the time I dialed the last one...
[35:05.240 --> 35:05.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Excellent.
[35:05.880 --> 35:07.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to time how long it takes.
[35:07.300 --> 35:12.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: It used to be, when I dialed 411 as a kid, wham-o, immediately, and you've got a human being.
[35:12.740 --> 35:12.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[35:13.060 --> 35:14.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: She said, yeah, what do you want?
[35:14.100 --> 35:16.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, or whatever it was the greeting was back then.
[35:16.500 --> 35:18.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you would immediately be able to tell them.
[35:18.440 --> 35:22.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you didn't have to say all this, you know, you know, please hold while we get your number.
[35:22.740 --> 35:24.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your call is so important to us.
[35:24.780 --> 35:26.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be with you in a moment.
[35:26.700 --> 35:27.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: You really still need the number?
[35:28.120 --> 35:33.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we'll still, you know, you're on hold because there's only like three information operators in the whole city now or something like that.
[35:33.560 --> 35:45.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, this, this, the way that they've done this is it's cut down on their, on their demands for operators in a huge way because they're now able to farm out basically ACD calls in a very efficient manner.
[35:46.040 --> 35:47.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, let's, let's give this a try.
[35:47.680 --> 35:49.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if we lose you, we'll call you right back.
[35:49.220 --> 35:49.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: So hang on.
[35:50.640 --> 35:51.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we have a dial tone?
[35:52.220 --> 35:52.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: No.
[35:53.540 --> 35:55.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: We don't have a dial tone in this line for some reason.
[35:55.620 --> 35:55.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hang on.
[35:56.680 --> 35:57.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we lost Bernie S.
[35:57.760 --> 35:58.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's just great.
[35:58.900 --> 36:01.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: The WBAI phone system once again comes through.
[36:01.680 --> 36:03.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's, let's try getting over here.
[36:04.600 --> 36:05.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[36:07.380 --> 36:08.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And last one.
[36:08.720 --> 36:10.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the timer is off.
[36:10.220 --> 36:11.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: See how long it takes to get information.
[36:12.980 --> 36:13.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're up.
[36:13.260 --> 36:14.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Welcome to Bell Atlantic.
[36:14.200 --> 36:14.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that was fast.
[36:16.180 --> 36:17.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Directory assistance.
[36:17.360 --> 36:17.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: What listing?
[36:18.140 --> 36:18.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bell Atlantic.
[36:19.920 --> 36:21.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: One moment, please.
[36:22.520 --> 36:23.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I think they...
[36:24.360 --> 36:25.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: What listing, please?
[36:25.520 --> 36:26.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Bell Atlantic, please.
[36:26.880 --> 36:27.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you home?
[36:27.720 --> 36:28.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, yes, why not?
[36:29.160 --> 36:29.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Customer service?
[36:30.160 --> 36:30.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[36:30.680 --> 36:31.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks.
[36:31.260 --> 36:31.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[36:32.260 --> 36:33.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: The number is...
[36:33.640 --> 36:34.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, we don't care.
[36:34.620 --> 36:34.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[36:35.460 --> 36:36.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, uh, that's interesting.
[36:36.880 --> 36:40.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: That really is interesting, um, that we, uh, that we got it that fast.
[36:40.620 --> 36:44.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, the whole, the whole call take, the whole call took place in 30 seconds.
[36:44.300 --> 36:47.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but it used to take place in, in like, five seconds.
[36:47.260 --> 36:52.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but when I call from my home, it takes a lot longer than that for James Earl Jones to come on.
[36:52.300 --> 36:54.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: It takes about 15, 20 seconds sometimes.
[36:54.260 --> 36:54.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[36:54.480 --> 36:55.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Fibra, how about you?
[36:55.460 --> 36:56.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you ever call information?
[36:57.160 --> 37:01.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I don't, I don't, I don't call them very often, but, uh, I typically don't have a problem.
[37:02.000 --> 37:02.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[37:02.420 --> 37:02.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[37:02.660 --> 37:04.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I try, it drives me nuts, man.
[37:04.360 --> 37:04.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[37:05.320 --> 37:08.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's, uh, I never call information, I mean, why would you call information?
[37:08.580 --> 37:11.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Get one of those CD-ROMs, you know, and you can look things up that way.
[37:11.940 --> 37:13.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, if you're at a payphone.
[37:13.220 --> 37:13.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's true.
[37:13.760 --> 37:16.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, payphones are still free, and that's not true everywhere, is it?
[37:17.860 --> 37:18.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, definitely not.
[37:18.840 --> 37:23.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: In Pennsylvania, which is also about Atlantic Territory, you have to pay money to, uh, to get through them.
[37:23.180 --> 37:23.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[37:24.360 --> 37:29.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, okay, I'm gonna try to get Bernie S again, so I'm gonna have to put you on hold while I do that.
[37:29.320 --> 37:30.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And hopefully we can tie him in.
[37:30.720 --> 37:33.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: The problem, the problem is, I can't even put you on hold.
[37:33.720 --> 37:35.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hang on one second while we, uh, figure all this out.
[37:36.600 --> 37:37.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, he's on hold now.
[37:37.900 --> 37:41.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then we're gonna try to get, uh, Bernie S on the phone.
[37:43.960 --> 37:48.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't want his number to go out over the air, so, uh, let's do it this way.
[37:48.840 --> 37:49.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[37:49.980 --> 37:51.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, great, it wants a code.
[37:51.320 --> 37:54.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, hold on, I gotta bypass, uh, the WBAI phone system now.
[37:56.120 --> 37:58.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a way to do that, and I'm not gonna tell anybody what it is.
[38:01.120 --> 38:04.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we have bypassed the system, and hopefully now we are ringing Bernie S.
[38:11.960 --> 38:13.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: So how long did the call take?
[38:13.380 --> 38:16.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, well, the call, uh, the whole thing took only about 30 seconds.
[38:16.780 --> 38:17.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: They actually...
[38:17.080 --> 38:17.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that was a show.
[38:17.720 --> 38:19.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, they did very, uh, they did very well.
[38:20.380 --> 38:25.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, unfortunately, the bad news, Bernie, is that apparently our phone system will not be able to keep you on while we take phone calls.
[38:25.480 --> 38:26.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know why that is.
[38:26.340 --> 38:27.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not supposed to do that.
[38:27.340 --> 38:27.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, well.
[38:28.040 --> 38:28.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[38:28.220 --> 38:29.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I will, I will sacrifice my lines.
[38:30.140 --> 38:35.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that way, uh, that way we can, uh, keep Owen on, and he can answer any questions people might have about the site.
[38:36.600 --> 38:39.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but is there anything you'd like to say to us before we let you go?
[38:40.000 --> 38:42.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wanted to thank Owen for, uh, for coming on the air tonight.
[38:42.560 --> 38:46.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: I, uh, glad I got a hold of him today, and, uh, glad you could be on.
[38:46.220 --> 38:46.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great.
[38:46.760 --> 38:47.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks a lot.
[38:47.280 --> 38:50.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, Bernie, we'll, we'll be in touch with you in, uh, in future weeks.
[38:50.620 --> 38:51.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good luck with your site, Owen.
[38:51.780 --> 38:52.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.
[38:52.380 --> 38:52.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Take care.
[38:53.100 --> 38:53.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's Bernie S.
[38:53.860 --> 38:54.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, great.
[38:54.760 --> 38:55.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now I lost Owen.
[38:56.140 --> 38:59.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, this, this phone system is the worst I've ever seen.
[38:59.140 --> 39:00.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it, it just randomly cuts people off.
[39:01.460 --> 39:03.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, now I have to find Owen's phone number.
[39:04.020 --> 39:06.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Phiber, why don't you update us on what's going on with you?
[39:06.700 --> 39:15.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, actually, I got, um, I got a message on my Omnipoint phone today notifying me that my, uh...
[39:15.140 --> 39:15.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Unbelievable.
[39:15.620 --> 39:15.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Unbelievable.
[39:16.040 --> 39:18.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: The cost of my feature package was going to be reduced by $10.
[39:18.960 --> 39:19.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that so?
[39:19.800 --> 39:19.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[39:20.140 --> 39:22.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: So they finally, uh, they got competitive, uh, pricing there.
[39:22.200 --> 39:24.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think they're getting hip to the competitiveness thing.
[39:24.360 --> 39:25.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, hang on.
[39:25.340 --> 39:26.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to try and get Owen back here.
[39:27.340 --> 39:28.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, he's busy.
[39:28.360 --> 39:30.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I don't know if he knows that he's, uh, disconnected.
[39:30.020 --> 39:32.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: He might still be hanging on the line there.
[39:33.820 --> 39:36.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what's, what's ironic is I can't get rid of the busy signal.
[39:36.800 --> 39:38.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can get rid of him, but not the busy signal.
[39:38.980 --> 39:40.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, okay, Omnipoint prices are going down.
[39:40.880 --> 39:45.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, at least my feature package, which is the, uh, the Advanced Pioneer, uh, plan.
[39:45.760 --> 39:45.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[39:46.160 --> 39:48.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I was notified it was being reduced by $10.
[39:49.020 --> 39:49.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[39:49.420 --> 39:49.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[39:50.100 --> 39:52.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: But the thing is, they still charge you for incoming calls.
[39:53.080 --> 39:53.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[39:53.100 --> 39:58.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: They still have, like, you know, these really expensive, uh, daytime rates.
[39:58.440 --> 39:59.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Was it 49 cents a minute?
[39:59.800 --> 40:00.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, a little at a time.
[40:00.940 --> 40:01.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[40:01.420 --> 40:02.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's if you exceed your 300.
[40:04.360 --> 40:04.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[40:05.100 --> 40:05.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[40:05.980 --> 40:08.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, okay, we're going to try and reach Owen one more time.
[40:10.260 --> 40:11.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: This has been a real disaster, hasn't it?
[40:12.180 --> 40:12.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, here we go.
[40:13.920 --> 40:15.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hopefully this is the right number.
[40:15.500 --> 40:15.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[40:19.100 --> 40:21.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, as far as who it disconnects.
[40:21.800 --> 40:22.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[40:22.620 --> 40:25.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Funny thing is, it's not made by Bell Atlantic, so I can't understand it.
[40:25.300 --> 40:25.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[40:25.420 --> 40:27.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's, uh, it's a weird system.
[40:27.140 --> 40:30.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: But anyway, we, we, we have lost Bernie, and he's going to stay away, so we can take phone calls.
[40:31.180 --> 40:31.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Great.
[40:31.620 --> 40:37.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, 212-279-3400 is our phone number, and if you're calling from outside the country, well, you know what to do to reach us.
[40:37.520 --> 40:38.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[40:38.140 --> 40:38.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[40:39.380 --> 40:39.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, hi.
[40:40.000 --> 40:40.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: How you doing?
[40:40.420 --> 40:40.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where are you calling from?
[40:41.020 --> 40:42.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm calling from Omaha, Nebraska.
[40:42.360 --> 40:42.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Omaha.
[40:42.940 --> 40:43.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: How you doing?
[40:43.680 --> 40:45.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, listen, are you listening to us?
[40:45.820 --> 40:46.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, no, I'm not.
[40:46.740 --> 40:57.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're going to have to ask you from now on, if you're going to call the show, that you'd be listening to the show as well, because otherwise, it's just completely, you know, you're coming in, we might as well just, like, drop a microphone out the window.
[40:58.020 --> 40:58.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?
[40:59.000 --> 41:00.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it's hard when you only have one phone line.
[41:00.640 --> 41:02.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever connected, you do have a computer, right?
[41:02.880 --> 41:03.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[41:03.240 --> 41:07.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, have you ever connected to a website called www.nynexsucks.com?
[41:08.040 --> 41:09.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, yeah, I've seen it before.
[41:09.220 --> 41:14.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the guy that runs that site is on the phone with us right now, so ask him a question.
[41:15.480 --> 41:16.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, that's great.
[41:16.300 --> 41:16.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Someone from U.S. West asking someone from Bell Atlantic.
[41:19.000 --> 41:19.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um...
[41:19.320 --> 41:21.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, is there a uswestsucks.com, huh?
[41:21.840 --> 41:23.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, no, because U.S. West is getting ADSL by June.
[41:25.060 --> 41:26.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: So you're saying U.S. West does not suck?
[41:27.560 --> 41:28.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mm, temporarily.
[41:28.680 --> 41:31.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, Owen, I think maybe you have some schooling for this person.
[41:31.340 --> 41:44.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you know what, there's a great site called, um, www.newnetworks.com, um, that's got all sorts of information about regional bell companies like U.S. West, um, and others in terms of, of various, um, things that happen and go on and, and network upgrades that never really happened, um, that you basically paid for, unfortunately, um, that nobody really did the accounting on.
[42:01.280 --> 42:09.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, um, you've got, one of the big questions in my mind these days has been, you know, Bell Labs was recently sold, right, for a billion dollars.
[42:09.500 --> 42:11.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do I, do I, am I getting any money back?
[42:11.760 --> 42:12.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: No.
[42:12.700 --> 42:15.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, I, I, I should, shouldn't I?
[42:15.620 --> 42:21.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I, I helped build Bell Labs, I think, and so did you, and so did everybody else paying their phone bill.
[42:21.760 --> 42:31.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, it seems kind of weird that, that, that is, is kind of only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what's going on with kind of other regional bell companies in there.
[42:31.280 --> 42:41.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, upgrading their infrastructures and kind of providing where, you know, the tragedy of the whole thing is, is really not just what exists today, but really what could have been.
[42:41.560 --> 42:43.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, the, the, the incredible...
[42:43.860 --> 42:45.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, Owen, what would you like to have seen?
[42:45.740 --> 43:02.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I think that, you know, the whole idea of offering, um, a, a, a regular upgrading of the phone system where I would have fiber by now into my home, um, into everyone's home, is, is not such an unreasonable request.
[43:02.160 --> 43:22.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I think that if, if, in fact, there was a, there was some sense of diligence and competition, um, and being well-managed as a company, um, certainly in New York City, there's just no reason why I couldn't have high data or high, some type of high bandwidth coming into my home for a very cheap price.
[43:22.880 --> 43:41.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, uh, it, it's possible, you know, there's a, uh, there's a, a community in the middle of Kansas, um, where the guy, uh, ran the electric company and basically decided, you know, this was, uh, five years ago, decided that, um, everybody that was part of the electric company,
[43:41.820 --> 43:48.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: it was a small electric company, he wanted to put, uh, data over the, the electric wires and did so.
[43:48.140 --> 43:51.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the whole town is now wired and they have T1 service for $24.95.
[43:52.180 --> 44:10.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, if some guy can do that in the middle of Kansas, who's not even a tech guy, um, don't tell me that, you know, with all of the infrastructure upgrades, and I'm not saying it's a small job, it's a huge job, but nevertheless, there's no reason why I still have the copper that was originally installed in my building 40 years ago.
[44:10.900 --> 44:11.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hmm.
[44:13.560 --> 44:17.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know, U.S. West dug up everyone's backyard about two years ago and stuck fiber in there.
[44:17.680 --> 44:20.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think that might have been for their cable TV and cable modem service, though.
[44:21.280 --> 44:21.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[44:21.840 --> 44:22.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because they haven't come...
[44:22.400 --> 44:24.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you have, do you have high-speed access into your house?
[44:24.860 --> 44:28.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, not into my house, but it's around $35 a month here to get a cable modem.
[44:29.140 --> 44:29.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mm-hmm.
[44:29.660 --> 44:34.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: And when they start offering DSL in June, it's going to be around $60 a month, including the ISP fees.
[44:34.640 --> 44:34.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[44:35.200 --> 44:35.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is U.S. West offering the cable modems?
[44:37.520 --> 44:39.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, yeah, they've been offering them for at least a year and a half now.
[44:40.280 --> 44:41.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: And do they have any competition?
[44:41.740 --> 44:48.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, yeah, Cox Communications, who used to be Cox Cable and they're national, they about six months ago started offering cable modem service.
[44:48.880 --> 44:50.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, what do they offer them for?
[44:50.520 --> 44:52.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, they offer residential.
[44:52.600 --> 44:52.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[44:52.940 --> 44:54.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: These are really geared for home market.
[44:55.100 --> 44:55.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[44:55.920 --> 44:58.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, Owen, does that sound like anything close to the dream you have?
[44:59.120 --> 44:59.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it sounds...
[44:59.900 --> 45:01.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it certainly sounds like it's...
[45:01.640 --> 45:04.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's within the means.
[45:04.840 --> 45:07.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, ADSL, though, is over copper, right?
[45:07.020 --> 45:10.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which, there is, you know, some limitations on that.
[45:11.020 --> 45:13.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, I mean, even that is, you know, that's great.
[45:13.760 --> 45:21.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, if you're really going to be able to get ADSL into your house, or XDSL, any kind of DSL, um, it's amazing.
[45:21.900 --> 45:27.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, the possibilities of that happening in New York City, like, just seem to me almost non-existent.
[45:27.480 --> 45:32.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the time frame they're coming up with is within a year, and some people say that's way too optimistic.
[45:33.160 --> 45:34.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's just no chance.
[45:34.620 --> 45:40.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, you're telling me by next February, I'm going to have a T1 in my house for 30 bucks a month.
[45:40.720 --> 45:41.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[45:41.120 --> 45:42.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's just no way.
[45:42.080 --> 45:45.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think Phiber agrees with you, and I think he hopes that that does not happen.
[45:45.560 --> 45:48.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does that include non-Bell-Atlantic areas and non-New York?
[45:49.500 --> 45:50.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, what do you mean by that?
[45:51.040 --> 45:52.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, because the U.S. West really is kind of pushing this.
[45:53.940 --> 46:01.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, if you call their home business area, it was even in the paper here a couple weeks ago, is that they are trying to get DSL out to consumers by June.
[46:01.280 --> 46:04.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I mean, here's what happened with this whole agreement.
[46:04.440 --> 46:14.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, the, all of the regional Bell companies got together and signed an agreement with Microsoft and Compaq, right, where, where Compaq was going to make the, the set tops or the, the boxes.
[46:15.220 --> 46:19.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, Microsoft was going to do the software, and the regional Bell companies were going to offer ADSL.
[46:19.440 --> 46:23.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: They said, great, that's going to be by Christmas of 98, Christmas of this year.
[46:23.780 --> 46:24.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's what they claim.
[46:25.480 --> 46:28.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, one, Bell Atlantic is not part of that group.
[46:28.280 --> 46:42.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, ADSL is not necessarily the best way to go, but in general, even if it were, like, there's no chance that Bell Atlantic is going to put together a deal and get their stuff together, um, by Christmas of 98.
[46:42.720 --> 46:54.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, um, just because, you know, of, of, there's, uh, the, the way that things happen in, in, in this, in this corridor of the world, you know?
[46:54.440 --> 47:02.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, you guys are, I think, much more flexible, and, and, uh, and they're part of that consortium anyway, which will actually push them forward even more.
[47:02.500 --> 47:02.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[47:03.180 --> 47:03.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, thanks for calling.
[47:04.180 --> 47:04.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sure.
[47:04.680 --> 47:05.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, take care.
[47:12.720 --> 47:13.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: nynexsucks.com.
[47:13.120 --> 47:15.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Owen, are you going to keep nynexsucks.com up, even though...
[47:15.740 --> 47:16.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, we'll keep...
[47:16.520 --> 47:17.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, there's no reason why not.
[47:18.240 --> 47:18.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[47:18.860 --> 47:19.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, great.
[47:19.880 --> 47:20.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[47:20.400 --> 47:20.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[47:21.820 --> 47:22.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, hi.
[47:22.620 --> 47:23.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where are you going from?
[47:23.280 --> 47:24.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm calling from New York City.
[47:24.540 --> 47:24.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[47:25.000 --> 47:25.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's on your mind?
[47:25.940 --> 47:26.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[47:26.520 --> 47:38.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: A late, a couple of months, I've been having, after the fourth ring, where my voice comes on, oh, well, your party is not home, but for, if you press one, we will ring the party up until late hours.
[47:38.900 --> 47:42.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now they have, oh, if you press two, for 75 cents.
[47:42.720 --> 47:44.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: We will ring the party up until late hours.
[47:45.100 --> 47:46.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I never get this.
[47:46.240 --> 47:48.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everyone complains about this, but wherever I am, it never seems to happen.
[47:49.060 --> 47:49.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to dial locally.
[47:50.520 --> 47:50.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[47:50.780 --> 47:54.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but I do dial locally, but after four rings, this happens?
[47:54.600 --> 47:55.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: After about six rings.
[47:55.760 --> 47:58.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, what happens if you want to dial the person for, like, 20 rings?
[47:58.400 --> 47:59.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there an option for that?
[47:59.440 --> 48:00.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
[48:00.540 --> 48:05.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, it rings, and then the fourth or sixth ring, a voice comes in all of a sudden.
[48:05.780 --> 48:09.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I had heard someplace that there was a way to get that taken off your line.
[48:10.060 --> 48:10.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Really?
[48:10.720 --> 48:10.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[48:10.860 --> 48:12.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, not all numbers doesn't work.
[48:12.720 --> 48:14.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, not all exchanges doesn't go through.
[48:14.400 --> 48:14.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[48:14.800 --> 48:17.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if you get a busy signal, it'll say, hi, this is not...
[48:17.460 --> 48:21.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bell Atlantic, we'll try to ring your party for whatever.
[48:22.240 --> 48:23.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Also, if you press two.
[48:24.220 --> 48:24.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[48:24.740 --> 48:26.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a great way to annoy somebody, too.
[48:26.300 --> 48:27.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[48:27.340 --> 48:28.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: And what happens if you go...
[48:28.180 --> 48:29.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: You forget about it, you go away.
[48:29.720 --> 48:29.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[48:30.080 --> 48:30.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then their phone rings.
[48:31.200 --> 48:31.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Their phone rings.
[48:31.560 --> 48:32.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your phone rings.
[48:32.420 --> 48:33.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then they say, why'd you call me?
[48:33.900 --> 48:35.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you start a whole big hostile campaign there.
[48:35.940 --> 48:36.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right, right.
[48:36.660 --> 48:44.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: And also, one thing that bugs me with the Star 69, maybe he has on his NYNEX sucks thing, it says, oh, the number is not available.
[48:45.040 --> 48:46.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you know the number, dial it to yourself.
[48:47.500 --> 48:49.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's some stupid message like that.
[48:49.500 --> 48:51.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've always wondered about that one, yes.
[48:51.920 --> 48:53.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: It sort of defeats the whole purpose.
[48:53.420 --> 48:53.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: It defeats the whole purpose.
[48:54.080 --> 48:56.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: If I knew your number, why would I dial Star 69?
[48:56.720 --> 48:58.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: To save four digits, why else?
[48:58.580 --> 48:59.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: To save 75 cents.
[49:00.120 --> 49:01.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, oh, yeah, that's certainly true.
[49:02.020 --> 49:03.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: 75 cents, how does that work?
[49:03.080 --> 49:04.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: 75 cents, even if it doesn't work?
[49:05.020 --> 49:05.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Up until $6.
[49:06.140 --> 49:11.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd like to be able to provide service like that, you know, charge somebody money for something that might not even work at all, but you've still got to pay me.
[49:11.860 --> 49:12.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[49:12.240 --> 49:13.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: That makes a lot of sense.
[49:13.720 --> 49:16.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: What can we do to break up the Atlantic again?
[49:16.920 --> 49:19.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I don't know if breaking them up is going to solve anything.
[49:19.100 --> 49:25.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: We really have to make it clear what it is that we want from them and what we don't want from them, and I think we don't want those silly services that annoy people.
[49:26.260 --> 49:28.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we don't want to be paying fees for things that don't work.
[49:28.500 --> 49:32.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm getting annoyed from, what's his name, his voice, from Earl, Earl, um...
[49:33.160 --> 49:33.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: James Earl Jones.
[49:34.060 --> 49:34.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: James Earl Ray Jones.
[49:35.180 --> 49:35.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very annoying.
[49:35.720 --> 49:36.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: In the beginning, it was very cute.
[49:38.180 --> 49:39.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it's James Earl Jones.
[49:39.380 --> 49:40.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Darth Vader, Darth Vader.
[49:42.340 --> 49:44.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, let's keep our people straight here.
[49:44.940 --> 49:45.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Darth Vader.
[49:47.220 --> 49:47.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[49:47.840 --> 49:49.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thanks for commenting.
[49:50.700 --> 49:52.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-279-3400.
[49:52.400 --> 49:53.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just have something to throw in here.
[49:53.780 --> 49:58.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: That, you know, talk, um, some of the, you're saying, you know, these frivolous charges that get charged.
[49:59.260 --> 50:05.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think a frivolous charge that just should be part of your phone's phone, you know, we pay extra for Touch-Tone, right?
[50:05.600 --> 50:06.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not anymore.
[50:06.440 --> 50:07.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, you do.
[50:07.480 --> 50:08.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: We do.
[50:08.320 --> 50:09.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you mean businesses, maybe?
[50:09.780 --> 50:09.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[50:10.280 --> 50:10.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Absolutely.
[50:10.960 --> 50:12.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: They haven't, they haven't completely eliminated it yet.
[50:12.760 --> 50:15.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I mean, what, what kind of charge is that?
[50:15.180 --> 50:15.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's just...
[50:15.500 --> 50:16.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a charge for nothing, yes.
[50:16.580 --> 50:16.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[50:16.660 --> 50:17.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've been battling that one for years.
[50:18.100 --> 50:19.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a new caller on the line.
[50:19.260 --> 50:19.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[50:19.340 --> 50:19.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Caller, are you there?
[50:20.160 --> 50:20.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[50:20.500 --> 50:21.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where are you calling from?
[50:21.360 --> 50:21.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: New Jersey.
[50:21.860 --> 50:22.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: New Jersey, what's on your mind?
[50:23.640 --> 50:27.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, just wondering, once you put fiber into the houses, what kind of maintenance would there be?
[50:28.140 --> 50:32.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I think, if a tree limb hit the line, how hard would it be to fix that up, though?
[50:32.860 --> 50:34.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's a real pain, from what I understand.
[50:34.940 --> 50:36.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, not necessarily.
[50:37.080 --> 50:40.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the properly trained technician would just do a fusion splice.
[50:40.480 --> 50:42.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm saying, a properly trained technician.
[50:42.560 --> 50:43.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: How many of those are there, really?
[50:43.940 --> 50:44.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, but this is...
[50:44.620 --> 50:44.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's true.
[50:45.120 --> 50:58.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think that's also the problem, is that, um, you've got, you know, fiber should just not be something which, you know, 10 people, or however many special green berets know about at, at, at Bell Atlantic.
[50:59.080 --> 51:05.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, this is, it, it has got to be a very common thing where it's just not that big of a deal.
[51:05.700 --> 51:11.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: And when you have to, when you upgrade the network to that point, then it just becomes kind of rote.
[51:12.060 --> 51:13.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's interesting, though.
[51:13.280 --> 51:24.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Along those lines, I have to say that, uh, me and Phiber being two of the initial people to get ISDN in this area, uh, I just helped somebody get an ISDN line a couple of, uh, about a week or so ago.
[51:24.880 --> 51:26.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And everybody knew what I was talking about.
[51:26.940 --> 51:28.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody knew what ISDN was.
[51:28.680 --> 51:28.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was a mess.
[51:28.940 --> 51:30.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, they didn't know how it worked, but they knew what it was.
[51:30.960 --> 51:32.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: They knew that they offered the service.
[51:32.740 --> 51:44.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: They didn't call it I-D-S-N, they, they, they actually, they actually set about installing the thing, and it's not installed yet, but I am told, on good authority, that it's being installed and that it's actually going to be finished in a timely manner,
[51:45.120 --> 51:47.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: i.e., not six to eight months, like mine was.
[51:47.420 --> 51:47.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[51:47.840 --> 51:50.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, it may not be much, but it is some progress.
[51:51.040 --> 51:51.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[51:51.400 --> 51:51.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[51:51.600 --> 51:56.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, I agree with you on, on the ISDN, uh, on the ISDN thing.
[51:56.880 --> 51:56.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[51:56.940 --> 51:57.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[51:58.100 --> 51:58.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[51:58.800 --> 51:59.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[51:59.420 --> 52:00.480]  Yeah, no, I didn't even want to.
[52:00.480 --> 52:01.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Speak up, please.
[52:01.340 --> 52:01.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, hi.
[52:01.800 --> 52:03.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Dave Nathan from New York.
[52:03.580 --> 52:03.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[52:04.140 --> 52:04.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's on your mind?
[52:05.140 --> 52:05.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Excuse me?
[52:05.840 --> 52:06.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's on your mind?
[52:06.700 --> 52:06.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[52:07.680 --> 52:12.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: What, what's the new, uh, ABS line and how it affects your, uh, provider?
[52:13.320 --> 52:13.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[52:14.240 --> 52:15.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, what will happen?
[52:16.220 --> 52:21.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Will, you, your, your provider will be cut out of the, uh, app because you're going right into Bell Atlantic?
[52:22.040 --> 52:23.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I know Bell Atlantic.
[52:23.300 --> 52:24.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: We read this last, last week.
[52:24.800 --> 52:31.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, they are looking for service providers that will monitor content or just deal with content or, or, or, or whatnot.
[52:33.100 --> 52:37.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, there's still, there's still going to be a market for those, uh, those kind of services.
[52:38.100 --> 52:44.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but basically right now I have, I have, I have, uh, uh, you know, a person that I called into.
[52:44.820 --> 52:47.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: They'll be, they'll be cut out of the system then.
[52:47.480 --> 52:51.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe that particular one will be if they don't, uh, you know, invest in ADSL.
[52:52.320 --> 52:56.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but my understanding is that there always will be a need for some sort of service provider.
[52:56.520 --> 52:56.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[52:57.100 --> 52:59.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't think Bell Atlantic wants to get involved in that, that part of it.
[53:00.100 --> 53:07.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, by the way, funny thing is when you, when you dial your number and it says it's busy, for 75 cents, they ask you whether they want to keep on re-dialing it.
[53:07.720 --> 53:08.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your own phone number.
[53:08.980 --> 53:09.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[53:09.480 --> 53:10.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, no, this number.
[53:10.700 --> 53:11.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[53:11.340 --> 53:12.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's busy.
[53:12.340 --> 53:13.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Great show.
[53:13.220 --> 53:13.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thanks.
[53:13.960 --> 53:14.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.
[53:14.120 --> 53:14.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, bye.
[53:14.960 --> 53:20.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I don't recommend people spend 75 cents to re-dial us because, uh, you probably won't get through anyway.
[53:21.240 --> 53:24.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Phiber, am I, am I off on the, uh, ADSL service provider?
[53:24.980 --> 53:31.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I mean, uh, ADSL is different from ISDN, obviously, because ISDN is a switched service.
[53:31.920 --> 53:34.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: You actually dial a phone number and it gets switched through the switching network.
[53:35.160 --> 53:35.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[53:35.760 --> 53:38.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: ADSL is a point-to-point, uh, service.
[53:38.540 --> 53:44.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: So you have to have somebody at the other end that you're agreeing that you're going to connect to and it's, it's a lease line, essentially.
[53:44.900 --> 53:51.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, you still, yeah, you need some kind of Internet service provider at the other end who, uh, you're going to connect to.
[53:51.760 --> 54:03.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, in, uh, in the other regional Bells, they commonly, uh, the regional Bell teams up with a small handful of ISPs and exclusively offers ADSL for them.
[54:03.560 --> 54:05.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what worries me, the exclusivity part.
[54:06.120 --> 54:06.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[54:06.460 --> 54:11.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Does this mean that somebody can't just say one day, hey, I want to start an ISP and do it?
[54:11.060 --> 54:12.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not going to be easy to do this anymore?
[54:12.400 --> 54:13.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know.
[54:13.920 --> 54:27.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, uh, I, I could, um, I could foresee somebody, uh, challenging, uh, the regional Bell, say if it was Bell Atlantic, you know, in the year, uh, you know, 2061 when we finally get ADSL.
[54:28.240 --> 54:37.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, at some point in the future, I could see, uh, you as an ISP challenging and possibly, uh, for antitrust reasons or having a monopoly on ADSL service.
[54:37.840 --> 54:38.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[54:38.240 --> 54:47.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think this is something that, uh, Bell Atlantic, if we're going to be the last ones to get, uh, I think they should learn from, uh, the mistakes of the other regional Bells that are already getting it.
[54:47.680 --> 54:51.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, and speaking on the, uh, issue of competition, where do you think we stand on that?
[54:52.220 --> 54:54.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, in terms of ADSL or in terms of...
[54:54.480 --> 54:55.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just general phone service.
[54:56.040 --> 55:14.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I think, see, um, what's, you know, packet, the packet networks are, are going to be basically the future of it all, which means that do you, you know, whoever controls the wires, is it necessarily going to be through a switch or, or, um, is it going to be through your cable modem clearly or,
[55:14.560 --> 55:17.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: or some other means, the electric, your electrical wires or whatever.
[55:17.440 --> 55:21.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: But in terms of like the circuit switch network, it's dead.
[55:21.340 --> 55:36.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, you know, you, you can't project out more than if you're, if you're anywhere intelligent and you're doing projections more than, you know, 10 or 15 years before, you know, packets and data are going to be carrying voice and, and your PCs will have your,
[55:36.280 --> 55:37.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: your telephone.
[55:37.940 --> 55:40.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, who is going to break this monopoly?
[55:40.100 --> 55:51.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think that the larger ISPs, um, the cable boxes and, and, and cable companies are going to be certainly the next generation of, of telephone providers.
[55:52.180 --> 56:03.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, um, in terms of ADSL, you know, this is a, this consolidation by the regional bell companies for this ADSL movement is one way to fight off kind of losing their grasp on the packet network.
[56:03.940 --> 56:04.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[56:04.500 --> 56:04.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: So.
[56:05.300 --> 56:09.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: So you, you see them making, uh, kind of catching up in the world of the Internet.
[56:09.960 --> 56:23.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, I see them, I, I see them trying to, and, you know, and I think that, you know, Bill Gates is eyeing the, uh, central offices in terms of writing the next generation of software, which means that if he can sign this, you know, if, if in fact they,
[56:23.980 --> 56:38.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: they, um, he's able to kind of pull in the regional bell companies, hardware manufacturers, and he's then therefore in a, in a perfect position to be able to write the backend stuff for, uh, the central offices and doing the packet switching.
[56:39.020 --> 56:47.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, you know, I, it, it basically is just re, reinsuring his monopoly and, and the bell company's monopoly in terms of data.
[56:47.180 --> 57:03.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, cable companies, alternative phone companies in terms of putting in data lines like, you know, BBN or, or, uh, Metropolitan Fiber or Teleport or whatever, all of those guys are going to have the same opportunities to offer, you know, long distance service and packet data,
[57:04.120 --> 57:06.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: voice service, or whatever you want to call it, you know, in the future.
[57:07.120 --> 57:10.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, you know, whether they're able to kind of play the game, I'm not sure.
[57:11.360 --> 57:11.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[57:11.660 --> 57:12.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's squeeze in one more phone call.
[57:12.760 --> 57:13.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[57:13.100 --> 57:13.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[57:14.800 --> 57:15.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Speak up, please.
[57:16.840 --> 57:17.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[57:17.540 --> 57:27.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, one good way of bypassing, uh, NYNEX and about Atlantic, I don't know if you mentioned this on the show or not, is a website called www.anywho.com.
[57:27.660 --> 57:27.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[57:28.200 --> 57:28.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[57:28.560 --> 57:29.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a very good website.
[57:29.740 --> 57:35.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's run by one of the big companies and it has every listed telephone number almost in the United States.
[57:36.000 --> 57:42.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you can't get the number or whatever from there, it's probably unlisted or it's, uh, not a lead number somewhere.
[57:42.440 --> 57:45.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can look it up by address as well as by phone number and name.
[57:45.640 --> 57:45.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[57:45.880 --> 57:53.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the neat thing that this website offers is you click on a little icon and it draws you a map of how to get to the place that you want to call.
[57:53.540 --> 57:56.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if you want to stalk someone or whatever, it'll show you how to get there.
[57:57.100 --> 57:57.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[57:57.920 --> 57:58.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a very neat thing.
[57:59.220 --> 57:59.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[58:00.220 --> 58:00.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[58:00.580 --> 58:04.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's, it's good that everybody has access to at least the same material and then we can, uh...
[58:04.800 --> 58:05.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's free.
[58:05.820 --> 58:06.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[58:06.300 --> 58:06.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[58:06.600 --> 58:06.600]  Okay.
[58:06.940 --> 58:08.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, thanks for passing that along.
[58:08.380 --> 58:09.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're out of time.
[58:09.500 --> 58:13.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Owen Davis, uh, you want to give us, uh, information on how to reach you and how to reach your sites?
[58:13.780 --> 58:14.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sure.
[58:14.360 --> 58:19.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, you can certainly go to, um, www.atlanticsucks.com.
[58:19.580 --> 58:25.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can also send me email at Owen, O-W-E-N, at thethinkingmedia.com.
[58:26.800 --> 58:27.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, great.
[58:27.620 --> 58:28.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Best of luck with those sites.
[58:28.700 --> 58:31.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure there'll be plenty of material over the next, uh, couple of years.
[58:32.180 --> 58:36.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Has anybody, uh, registered AT&T sucks and, uh, MCI and all No, no, no one.
[58:36.700 --> 58:37.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, there you go.
[58:37.520 --> 58:39.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, uh, projects for our listeners to get involved in.
[58:39.800 --> 58:40.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, take care.
[58:40.560 --> 58:40.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks.
[58:40.660 --> 58:40.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[58:41.100 --> 58:42.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for, uh, thanks for being a part of this.
[58:43.020 --> 58:46.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel Goldstein for, uh, Phiber Optik and the rest of the Off the Hook crew, uh, we'll see you again.
[58:47.660 --> 58:49.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I have a phone call, so I have to go.
[58:49.500 --> 58:55.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we'll see you again next week at this same time, or an hour before this time, when we'll be leaving again next week.
[58:55.220 --> 58:56.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Until then, have a good night.