Off The Hook - 1998-05-26

[00:02.260 --> 00:07.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Doug, his work in progress is The Strength of the Wolf and Hotel Tacloban.
[00:07.900 --> 00:11.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think the only way you can get that, I think, is on Amazon.
[00:11.400 --> 00:13.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Any case, thanks a million, Doug, and I'll be speaking to you, my friend.
[00:15.100 --> 00:24.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Triangle of Death, the thriller, based on the CIA's... Triangle of Death is based on the CIA's real-life use of unwitting guinea pigs to test mind-control drugs.
[00:24.320 --> 00:29.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: The book CIA hates to be reminded of is still, in spite of all efforts, out there.
[00:29.380 --> 00:37.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: And next week, we're going to have... Well, you know, we're in a nation where the President of the United States said he smoked dope, but he didn't inhale.
[00:37.300 --> 00:42.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you heard myself and Detective Bobby Johnson say if he did it here in New York, it wouldn't have held water.
[00:42.380 --> 00:46.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: He'd have a 19-digit serial number in front of him instead of Commander-in-Chief.
[00:46.860 --> 00:54.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: But yet, there are people serving 90 and 100 years in prison in the United States for possession of marijuana for what?
[00:54.600 --> 00:58.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: To counteract cancer, to counteract multiple sclerosis.
[00:58.020 --> 01:00.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, we're going to hear from some of those people next week.
[01:01.140 --> 01:02.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, guys, don't miss it.
[01:03.000 --> 01:03.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: We need you.
[01:03.840 --> 01:06.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Mike Levine, an expert witness, signing off.
[01:06.780 --> 01:07.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mucho ojo en la calle, mi gente.
[01:20.200 --> 01:24.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: 10 years ago, a finger-snapping, foot-stomping musical lit up the theater scene.
[01:24.480 --> 01:27.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: And now, Smoke on the Mountain is returning in a new production.
[01:27.340 --> 01:35.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: And their first performance at the Lamb's Theater will be a benefit for listener-sponsored WBAI on Friday night, June 5th.
[01:35.140 --> 01:43.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Smoke on the Mountain, hailed by Clyde Barnes and The Post as a totally beguiling theatrical entertainment, and which the New Yorker called perfectly delightful.
[01:44.080 --> 01:50.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Among the many wonderful things about Smoke on the Mountain is that you can bring the kids or your grandparents for a joyous evening.
[01:51.040 --> 01:55.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Join your friends from WBAI at this special performance of Smoke on the Mountain.
[01:55.540 --> 02:06.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Friday, June 5th, curtain time, 8 o'clock, tickets, $35 a pair, and you can make reservations by calling area code 212-575-0263.
[02:07.100 --> 02:09.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's Smoke on the Mountain at the Lamb's Theater.
[02:09.760 --> 02:13.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Reservations, 575-0263.
[02:14.180 --> 02:17.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Fire in my heart.
[02:18.400 --> 02:28.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: And you're tuned to listener-sponsored, commercial-free community radio, WBAI, in New York, 99.5 FM, Off the Hook, with Emmanuel Goldstein, is coming up next.
[02:28.720 --> 02:29.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: Please stay tuned.
[02:36.250 --> 02:40.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: If I had a hammer, I'd hammer him.
[02:47.430 --> 02:56.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: On Saturday evening, May 30th, the War Resisters League will honor Odetta, Charlie King, and the People's Voice Cafe with its annual Peace Awards.
[02:56.750 --> 03:07.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the War Resisters League's 75th Anniversary Dinner and Concert with Odetta and Charlie King singing, and it's held at Riverside Church, 120th and Claremont Avenue.
[03:07.370 --> 03:12.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: So join us on May 30th at 6.30, and we'll sing our way to paradise.
[03:12.830 --> 03:18.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: For more information, call 212-228-0450.
[03:18.570 --> 03:21.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's 228-0450.
[03:22.130 --> 03:27.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: This has been a public service announcement for WBAI on behalf of the War Resisters League.
[03:29.770 --> 03:35.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: I sing it in the evening All over me to the land
[03:41.940 --> 03:44.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, this is Harry Belafonte.
[03:45.300 --> 03:52.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're listening to Community Radio in New York City, WBAI 99.5 FM.
[03:53.940 --> 03:58.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: WBAI is listener-supported, so please, be generous.
[03:58.760 --> 03:59.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[04:00.200 --> 04:28.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: You give yourself to those who don't deserve you You go where you are not supposed to be I know someday that I am going to have you Someday you'll have to give yourself to me Come on It's 8 o'clock Time for Off the Hook The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[04:29.280 --> 04:33.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[04:34.760 --> 04:36.400]  We couldn't get much work,
[04:43.540 --> 04:44.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: hope that's understood.
[04:44.880 --> 04:45.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a
[05:30.220 --> 05:33.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: very good evening to everybody.
[05:33.420 --> 05:42.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, another exciting edition of Off the Hook here on listener-supported WBAI in New York, where we have no commercials.
[05:42.300 --> 05:45.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Before we start, a word from our commercial sponsor.
[05:59.760 --> 06:16.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: When 7-Up has got me down, when high C gets me low, my Labatt's blue ain't blue, it's brown, my Nestle's quick just makes me slow.
[06:16.420 --> 06:23.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: When my sparkling cider's lost its shine, my can of sharks is dull.
[06:24.440 --> 06:28.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hawaiian punch has knocked me cold.
[06:28.660 --> 06:31.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: A feeling hits my skull.
[06:31.760 --> 06:39.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: And my mind just turns to Pepsi, and I couldn't tell you why.
[06:40.220 --> 06:47.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Smart drinks need me to forget, and Coke won't get me high.
[06:47.300 --> 06:52.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: When constant calm, it won't shut up.
[06:52.580 --> 06:57.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll sit right down and fill my cup with Pepsi.
[06:59.720 --> 07:01.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Drink it up.
[07:03.960 --> 07:11.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: When diet right to me is wrong, my country times expire.
[07:11.940 --> 07:15.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: My minute maid's an hour long.
[07:16.220 --> 07:20.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: My Maxwell house won't get me wired.
[07:20.040 --> 07:27.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: When my pet milk turns on me, and my five alive is dead.
[07:27.740 --> 07:35.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: When my royal crown's been overthrown, an impulse hits my head.
[07:35.240 --> 07:43.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: And my mind just turns to Pepsi, and I think of it a lot.
[07:44.380 --> 07:51.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: My Swiss Miss just wasn't pure, and Kool-Aid isn't hot.
[07:51.460 --> 07:56.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: When a wall of smoothies rough me up.
[07:56.720 --> 08:01.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll turn to a bigger cup of Pepsi.
[08:03.740 --> 08:05.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Drink it up.
[08:07.840 --> 08:12.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: When Samuel Adams makes me ale.
[08:12.180 --> 08:14.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Dr. Pepper's not around.
[08:15.780 --> 08:20.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: When sweet success has let me fail.
[08:20.560 --> 08:24.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: I crave a flavor most profound.
[08:24.200 --> 08:27.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And my mind just turns to Pepsi.
[08:28.060 --> 08:32.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: When I look, I see, I find.
[08:32.480 --> 08:36.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: My crystal light has just burned out.
[08:36.860 --> 08:39.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: And Canada's gone dry.
[08:40.660 --> 08:44.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: My Yoo-Hoo will not call to me.
[08:44.780 --> 08:49.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: I am a loyal endorseee of Pepsi.
[08:52.080 --> 08:53.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Drink it up.
[08:54.400 --> 08:55.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just a funny thing.
[08:56.600 --> 08:57.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: Drink it up.
[08:57.620 --> 08:58.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just a funny thing.
[08:59.600 --> 09:05.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: A Pepsi commercial where there's the sun setting on this bar, and you hear this guy say, Riii!
[09:05.160 --> 09:05.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:06.600 --> 09:07.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:07.200 --> 09:07.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:07.640 --> 09:07.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:07.720 --> 09:08.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: And you don't know what it is.
[09:09.080 --> 09:11.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: And you see in the back of the bar, there's a soda machine.
[09:12.140 --> 09:13.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: And this guy has a dollar bill.
[09:14.120 --> 09:14.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:14.960 --> 09:15.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:16.580 --> 09:16.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:17.360 --> 09:17.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:17.680 --> 09:17.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Riii!
[09:17.860 --> 09:18.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then it takes it.
[09:19.400 --> 09:19.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes!
[09:20.280 --> 09:20.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes!
[09:21.380 --> 09:22.140]  Yes!
[09:22.520 --> 09:22.740]  Yes!
[09:23.520 --> 09:25.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Everybody, drink it up.
[09:35.020 --> 09:36.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And a good evening to everybody.
[09:36.700 --> 09:40.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: That, of course, was Negativland.
[09:40.720 --> 09:51.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Negativland being, I guess, a band that, over the years, has been known for kind of spitting in the face of authority.
[09:51.600 --> 09:54.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: And what better face to spit in than the face of Pepsi?
[09:55.000 --> 10:01.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: They put out a whole album late last year that pretty much was devoted to Pepsi.
[10:01.360 --> 10:03.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, last week, we played some of it.
[10:04.090 --> 10:05.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, it wasn't a real commercial.
[10:05.640 --> 10:09.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Although, a lot of people seem to think that Riii suddenly started playing commercials.
[10:10.160 --> 10:11.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, come on.
[10:12.380 --> 10:14.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, hell will freeze over before that happens.
[10:15.330 --> 10:16.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: These people put out an entire record.
[10:16.950 --> 10:22.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: They didn't name it, really, in a traditional sense.
[10:22.260 --> 10:24.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: They put a bunch of letters together.
[10:25.830 --> 10:30.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: S, P, I, E, D, P, S, and I.
[10:30.170 --> 10:32.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: And they gave a number to call.
[10:33.810 --> 10:42.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: They gave a number to call for people to find out what exactly the album was called.
[10:42.570 --> 10:43.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because a lot of people were confused.
[10:44.540 --> 10:45.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, we're gonna call that number.
[10:46.160 --> 10:47.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because that's what we do.
[10:47.480 --> 10:50.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: We call numbers and figure out what they are.
[10:54.650 --> 11:00.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: And this number will tell us exactly what the letters mean.
[11:11.640 --> 11:13.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Right now.
[11:13.240 --> 11:14.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Right now.
[11:14.360 --> 11:15.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: You can have it.
[11:15.460 --> 11:17.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: You can have it right now.
[11:18.040 --> 11:19.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good hello.
[11:19.540 --> 11:23.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You've reached Negativland's word of mouth line.
[11:23.620 --> 11:33.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: The title of Negativland's new CD is spelled D-I-S-P-E-P-S-I.
[11:33.660 --> 11:37.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's one word, and it's pronounced dyspepsy.
[11:39.060 --> 11:41.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: The choice of the negative air generation.
[11:44.530 --> 11:44.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[11:45.490 --> 11:46.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, we don't want to leave a message.
[11:47.950 --> 11:48.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: Recording erased.
[11:48.890 --> 11:49.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you.
[11:49.450 --> 11:51.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: Please record again after the tone.
[11:51.330 --> 11:51.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, no.
[11:51.870 --> 11:52.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, no, no.
[11:52.650 --> 11:53.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: We don't want to leave a message.
[11:53.910 --> 11:54.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, I'm...
[11:55.230 --> 11:55.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: Message sent.
[11:56.030 --> 11:56.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, no.
[11:56.490 --> 11:56.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: Goodbye.
[11:57.330 --> 11:58.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, well, we've just...
[11:58.630 --> 12:01.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: We've just confused Negativland, and that's the last thing I wanted to do.
[12:02.950 --> 12:03.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, well.
[12:10.190 --> 12:12.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's pretty much what WBAI is about.
[12:13.850 --> 12:15.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's pretty much what computer hackers are about.
[12:16.950 --> 12:18.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we know that's what Negativland is about.
[12:21.470 --> 12:22.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: Questioning authority.
[12:27.240 --> 12:27.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: And...
[12:29.000 --> 12:32.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Finding out things about corporations that they'd rather you not find out about.
[12:33.740 --> 12:36.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, like Nike, for instance.
[12:36.380 --> 12:37.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, there's a corporation.
[12:40.180 --> 12:43.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Probably one of the biggest corporations around.
[12:43.440 --> 12:45.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, it's not Microsoft.
[12:45.300 --> 12:55.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Microsoft, of course, has been subjected to a lot of abuse, criticism, and unwanted news over the past few weeks.
[12:56.440 --> 12:59.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the reason being is because they've just gotten so big.
[12:59.780 --> 13:01.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, they're incredibly huge.
[13:03.020 --> 13:06.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're a monopoly, in the opinion of the US government.
[13:07.420 --> 13:10.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's something to be concerned with.
[13:11.880 --> 13:13.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: But Nike is a whole other story.
[13:13.760 --> 13:15.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're everywhere, but you don't know they're everywhere.
[13:15.740 --> 13:17.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I only discovered this yesterday when I was in the mall.
[13:18.920 --> 13:19.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: And...
[13:19.280 --> 13:20.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was playing a little game.
[13:20.860 --> 13:21.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: You should try this.
[13:21.940 --> 13:22.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Go to the mall.
[13:23.000 --> 13:23.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Wait till the show's over.
[13:23.780 --> 13:24.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Go to the mall.
[13:25.640 --> 13:26.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: And...
[13:26.000 --> 13:29.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: See how many people you can count that are wearing Nike insignia of various sorts.
[13:29.940 --> 13:30.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: And Nike, of course, is that...
[13:30.940 --> 13:32.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: That little, like, swooshy thing.
[13:33.020 --> 13:34.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Which I don't really understand.
[13:34.220 --> 13:35.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: But that's what they...
[13:35.320 --> 13:36.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: What they put on their...
[13:36.220 --> 13:36.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Their shoes.
[13:36.760 --> 13:38.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: And people walk around with shirts.
[13:39.000 --> 13:39.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: They walk around with jackets.
[13:40.100 --> 13:41.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: They walk around with hats.
[13:41.320 --> 13:43.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Some people even have it emblazoned on their forehead.
[13:43.960 --> 13:45.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you have to wonder why.
[13:45.420 --> 13:46.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's a corporation.
[13:47.100 --> 13:48.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's a huge multinational corporation.
[13:48.520 --> 13:49.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: They don't care about you.
[13:50.180 --> 13:53.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: They sell you shoes that are vastly expensive.
[13:53.400 --> 13:53.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: And...
[13:54.640 --> 13:58.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: And this is why I suggest everybody go out and see the Michael Moore film called The Big One.
[13:58.000 --> 14:01.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And they employ slave labor in all parts of the world.
[14:01.860 --> 14:03.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: I believe Asia is the most predominant.
[14:05.180 --> 14:05.600]  And...
[14:05.600 --> 14:07.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's just unbelievable.
[14:07.260 --> 14:08.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Everybody buys into this kind of thing.
[14:11.200 --> 14:16.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, you walk around the mall and you see all these people wearing these corporate insignias all over them.
[14:17.380 --> 14:21.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: I thought maybe, you know, in the space of a couple of minutes, I'd see five.
[14:21.780 --> 14:24.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Instead, I saw over a dozen.
[14:25.080 --> 14:26.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: And some of them are really tiny.
[14:26.340 --> 14:28.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to, like, really get close to people to see them.
[14:28.600 --> 14:31.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, they have the little lanky things on their...
[14:31.140 --> 14:32.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: On the backs of their necks.
[14:32.640 --> 14:33.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, on their collars.
[14:35.520 --> 14:38.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the funny thing, the really funny thing about it is that...
[14:39.560 --> 14:41.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: I wasn't even looking at their shoes.
[14:43.360 --> 14:45.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: And shoes are what these people sell.
[14:46.780 --> 14:49.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: All I saw were the advertisements for the shoes that...
[14:50.780 --> 14:51.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: People...
[14:51.140 --> 14:53.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: They don't get paid to carry around these advertisements.
[14:53.860 --> 14:56.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: They pay the company to advertise for them.
[14:57.500 --> 14:58.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's something I don't understand.
[14:58.960 --> 15:01.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: You go to a company and you say, Here's money.
[15:01.600 --> 15:03.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: I want to advertise your product for you.
[15:03.820 --> 15:04.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And they say, Okay.
[15:05.240 --> 15:06.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Here's an advertisement on a shirt.
[15:07.920 --> 15:08.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: You can't have a shoe.
[15:09.020 --> 15:11.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to buy, you know, a shoe at the regular list price.
[15:11.980 --> 15:14.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: A couple hundred bucks or whatever they sell them for these days.
[15:15.820 --> 15:17.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it's just...
[15:17.020 --> 15:17.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's crazy.
[15:22.860 --> 15:23.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: So let's...
[15:24.700 --> 15:25.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's give Nike a call.
[15:36.470 --> 15:38.910]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thank you for calling Nike Consumer Affairs.
[15:39.230 --> 15:42.290]  [SPEAKER_22]: For Nike literature and product information, press one.
[15:42.730 --> 15:46.130]  [SPEAKER_22]: For Nike retailers and factory outlets, press two.
[15:46.430 --> 15:49.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: To share your comments and feedback, press three.
[15:49.710 --> 15:54.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: If you are calling to speak to a Nike representative, our call center hours are from...
[15:54.550 --> 15:56.310]  [SPEAKER_22]: 7 o'clock a.m.
[15:56.550 --> 15:58.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: to 4.50 p.m.
[15:58.870 --> 16:00.630]  [SPEAKER_22]: Pacific Time, Monday through Friday.
[16:00.810 --> 16:01.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: We just listened.
[16:01.110 --> 16:05.550]  [SPEAKER_22]: You may return to the main menu at any time during this call by pressing the star key.
[16:06.390 --> 16:07.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, let's press some keys.
[16:07.990 --> 16:11.370]  [SPEAKER_22]: For Nike literature and product information, press one.
[16:11.370 --> 16:16.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: For Nike literature and product information, press one.
[16:16.310 --> 16:17.250]  [SPEAKER_22]: For Nike literature...
[16:17.250 --> 16:17.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, goodbye, goodbye.
[16:17.850 --> 16:18.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're no fun.
[16:18.750 --> 16:21.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, they leave at 4.50 Pacific Time, so that's no fun.
[16:21.950 --> 16:23.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, try getting a tour of a U.S.
[16:24.330 --> 16:25.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: manufacturing facility.
[16:26.730 --> 16:28.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're gonna have a bit of a problem.
[16:30.050 --> 16:31.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because they don't make anything in this country.
[16:32.590 --> 16:34.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, maybe they make the shirts, I don't know.
[16:34.350 --> 16:39.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: Maybe they make the, uh, the armbands and the billboards and whatever else.
[16:40.950 --> 16:44.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, that's something that just has always amazed me about American culture.
[16:44.370 --> 16:55.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, um, I was overseas this past week in Holland, uh, giving a talk at, uh, the fifth anniversary of Access for All, which is the, now the third largest Internet provider over there.
[16:55.330 --> 16:57.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: Get this, it started as a hacker magazine.
[16:57.670 --> 16:59.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: It started as, as Hack-Tic magazine.
[16:59.790 --> 17:04.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, in fact, a lot of you were around for this, as Off the Hook has aired over the past, um, almost ten years.
[17:06.370 --> 17:08.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, Hack-Tic was, uh, published in the late 80s.
[17:09.170 --> 17:16.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that turned into an Internet service provider known as Access for All, which became one of the largest providers in the entire country of Holland.
[17:17.190 --> 17:19.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: And now they've been around for five years.
[17:19.690 --> 17:21.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: The magazine isn't around anymore, unfortunately.
[17:21.650 --> 17:23.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hopefully, something else will, will come up and take its place.
[17:26.710 --> 17:28.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, Access for All has been around for five years.
[17:29.110 --> 17:31.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, and they had a party, uh, last Friday.
[17:32.110 --> 17:37.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: And what I tried to do was, was get word out about the, the whole Kevin Mitnick, um, case.
[17:37.950 --> 17:41.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because people over there don't really know about, uh, about what's going on there.
[17:42.050 --> 17:51.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: They don't really know about, you know, the, the fact that somebody in this country has been in prison for over three years, uh, without any sort of a trial, without any sort of a prospect of a trial.
[17:51.950 --> 17:55.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, it sounds, it sounds unbelievable when, when, when you consider it that way.
[17:57.710 --> 18:02.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, people are fascinated by this, uh, by this particular case.
[18:02.650 --> 18:09.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: What's interesting is, I went over there with a whole bunch of free Kevin bumper stickers, which, uh, are the exact same style as, and I didn't know this, I swear.
[18:09.650 --> 18:12.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: The exact same style as Dutch license plates.
[18:13.050 --> 18:18.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, the, the possibilities, of course, became quite endless, uh, once those got distributed around.
[18:19.370 --> 18:37.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was, uh, pretty amazing how people really were interested in, in, in learning, spreading the knowledge of the case, and the anger they showed towards what was going on to somebody that, uh, that really was accused of nothing more than some curiosity,
[18:37.630 --> 18:42.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: some ability to escape the authorities.
[18:45.170 --> 18:52.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, it's, uh, it's happy, and it's sad, but, um, something that, uh, I think we need to do a lot.
[18:52.870 --> 18:53.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: We need to spread the word around.
[18:54.270 --> 18:56.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, so, there's free Kevin bumper stickers out everywhere now.
[18:57.150 --> 18:58.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: Got some to Dayton last week.
[18:58.690 --> 19:00.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: We've gotten some to, uh, Amsterdam this week.
[19:01.330 --> 19:05.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, of course, every 2,600 subscriber got one in the mail over the past few days.
[19:06.330 --> 19:07.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it's only the beginning.
[19:07.670 --> 19:15.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's only the beginning of a campaign to, uh, to end this nightmare that we've been talking about now since, uh, gosh, 1995.
[19:15.750 --> 19:16.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: Think about that.
[19:16.270 --> 19:17.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's when he got caught.
[19:17.510 --> 19:19.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was on the run for a year and a half before that.
[19:20.130 --> 19:22.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: It just, it just never seems to end.
[19:23.130 --> 19:26.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: And when, when this does end, I'm sure something else will pop up to take its place.
[19:27.690 --> 19:38.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, um, as we've mentioned many times, people over in Holland are, are pretty fascinated by American culture, by our fascination with, with corporations, like, uh, we've been talking about.
[19:39.110 --> 19:44.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I think it's just kind of a perverse curiosity on their part as far as why.
[19:44.550 --> 19:48.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, what, what is it about us that, that, that makes us go for these things?
[19:48.430 --> 19:49.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't understand it either.
[19:49.750 --> 19:50.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: They ask me these questions.
[19:51.070 --> 19:53.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: They, they ask me all kinds of questions every time I go over there.
[19:53.970 --> 19:57.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: Like, you know, so, let's get this straight.
[19:57.370 --> 20:01.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: Every week in a schoolyard somewhere, some kid shoots his, his, his fellow students.
[20:01.490 --> 20:05.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the problem is, is blamed on TV shows?
[20:05.750 --> 20:06.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, okay.
[20:06.850 --> 20:07.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's, that makes a lot of sense.
[20:08.390 --> 20:11.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, have you ever considered maybe not having so many guns around?
[20:12.630 --> 20:12.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[20:13.590 --> 20:14.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, no.
[20:14.230 --> 20:15.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: You see, this is America.
[20:15.150 --> 20:15.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: We don't think that way.
[20:17.150 --> 20:24.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, um, the, the rights of a, of a preteen to have a gun is something that we do not, uh, violate easily.
[20:25.410 --> 20:25.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[20:26.690 --> 20:28.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, uh, we have a, we have a reputation.
[20:28.690 --> 20:39.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, I, I, I say this in all seriousness, we have a reputation in the rest of the world as a bunch of crazy lunatics who happen to be the most dangerous country in the world because we're also the most powerful country in the world.
[20:39.730 --> 20:46.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it's, you know, it's kind of fun to go over there with that, uh, in mind because you sort of are given a wide berth as you walk down the street.
[20:47.070 --> 20:48.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, he's an American.
[20:48.110 --> 20:58.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: Nobody knows what he's going to do, but it's also, it's kind of a sobering thing because you realize that, yeah, you know, we are kind of like a, a bus going down a hill out of control with no brakes.
[20:58.930 --> 21:00.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: And one only has to wonder what that's going to lead to.
[21:01.430 --> 21:08.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, one thing that I noticed over there, and, and this was the first time I'd been there in about a year and a half, um, everybody's got GSM phones.
[21:08.510 --> 21:09.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, it's, it's ridiculous.
[21:09.990 --> 21:10.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: Everybody's got these things.
[21:12.250 --> 21:15.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: And most of them seem to be the, uh, the Ericsson models.
[21:15.850 --> 21:17.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: You hear the, the little beeps everywhere.
[21:17.890 --> 21:19.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: You hear, you know what they, they mean.
[21:19.530 --> 21:21.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, you know, hey, this person just got an SMS message.
[21:22.330 --> 21:26.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, he just got one of these electronic mail things or, or news headlines or, or whatnot.
[21:27.730 --> 21:29.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it's, it's kind of cool.
[21:29.930 --> 21:35.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: Kind of cool to see everybody using these things and, and knowing how to use them, which is really not what we're doing here.
[21:35.330 --> 21:36.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: Few people have them.
[21:36.490 --> 21:40.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're too expensive here and not everybody's using them in the right way.
[21:40.170 --> 21:41.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: And of course I brought my phone over there.
[21:42.490 --> 21:47.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, my phone won't work over there because it's a different type of, um, of, uh, transmission.
[21:47.790 --> 21:49.590]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's, this is 1900 megahertz over here.
[21:49.710 --> 21:53.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: They use 900 megahertz over there, but the little SIM card does work.
[21:53.890 --> 21:56.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was able to take the SIM card out, plug it in somebody else's phone.
[21:56.170 --> 22:01.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: And instantly I got my local weather forecast for back in New York and all the New York times headlines that I had missed.
[22:02.190 --> 22:03.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, so that was kind of cool.
[22:03.410 --> 22:09.530]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I was able to call back to the U S and they were able to call me at my regular number and be forwarded to, uh, to Holland.
[22:09.950 --> 22:11.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have no idea how much this is going to cost.
[22:11.970 --> 22:13.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's sort of the fun of the whole thing.
[22:13.630 --> 22:14.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: You don't know what's going to happen.
[22:15.350 --> 22:21.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: So in a couple of weeks, I'm sure I'll be, uh, raising all kinds of a, uh, a fuss about the price that I got charged for that.
[22:21.930 --> 22:29.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, so everybody also at the same time, while they're using GSM, they're also cloning GSM SIM cards.
[22:30.070 --> 22:34.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: Everybody's, I mean, you know, we, we talked about this a few weeks ago here, but I didn't realize the extent of it over there.
[22:35.390 --> 22:37.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, the software is everywhere.
[22:38.190 --> 22:39.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: Everyone's doing this.
[22:39.130 --> 22:40.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: Everyone's making copies of SIM cards.
[22:40.790 --> 22:42.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, the thing that we were told was impossible.
[22:42.370 --> 22:45.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's not only possible, but, but very prevalent over there.
[22:46.210 --> 22:57.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, it doesn't seem to be really, uh, you know, affecting the service at all, but it definitely would embarrass some of the companies over here if, uh, if a lot of people were doing that.
[22:57.370 --> 23:03.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: And a lot of people will be doing it over here because, hey, the software is making it to this country as well.
[23:03.390 --> 23:04.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, it's already in this country.
[23:04.430 --> 23:05.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: People are doing it here as well.
[23:05.990 --> 23:07.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: And knowledge will be spread around.
[23:07.630 --> 23:08.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: You can't really stop knowledge.
[23:09.870 --> 23:13.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, uh, that was, uh, that was kind of enlightening to see all that.
[23:15.490 --> 23:16.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: Some other enlightenment.
[23:17.170 --> 23:18.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: Some things that happened last week.
[23:18.830 --> 23:21.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, things that happened right after the show ended.
[23:22.770 --> 23:24.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: You must have heard about this.
[23:24.970 --> 23:29.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: The entire pager network for the United States went down.
[23:30.210 --> 23:33.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: Actually, not the entire pager network, but a good 90% of it.
[23:33.230 --> 23:35.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's a, that's a significant chunk right there.
[23:36.110 --> 23:38.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, my pager stopped working on Wednesday.
[23:38.950 --> 23:48.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, up until that point, I had no idea, no clue at all, that my pager used a satellite because it's, it's local.
[23:48.550 --> 23:49.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it only works in New York.
[23:49.850 --> 23:50.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: What does it need a satellite for?
[23:51.150 --> 23:51.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, they do.
[23:51.870 --> 23:52.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: They use satellites.
[23:54.070 --> 23:58.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, very, very vast majority of the pagers use satellites.
[23:58.870 --> 24:07.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, when that particular satellite got knocked out of orbit, or just turned in the wrong direction, it affected just about everybody.
[24:08.690 --> 24:13.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'd like to hear from some listeners, uh, when we take phone calls in a couple of minutes, how that might have affected them.
[24:13.730 --> 24:19.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: You lose a loved one, maybe, or, you know, lose out on a job opportunity.
[24:20.010 --> 24:24.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, what's the worst possible thing that happened to somebody based on that technical fowl?
[24:25.690 --> 24:26.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what I'd like to know.
[24:27.690 --> 24:35.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was away, so, you know, all I knew was, my pager wasn't working as I left, and when I got back it was, so, I kind of missed out on the whole thing.
[24:36.470 --> 24:38.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not even sure my pager's working now, you know?
[24:38.510 --> 24:39.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: Maybe I should, I should check this.
[24:42.410 --> 24:46.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: I just wind up doing everything when I come in here, because I have no time to do things otherwise.
[24:47.090 --> 24:48.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, let's just...
[24:48.430 --> 24:50.610]  [SPEAKER_20]: see if I can, uh...
[24:50.610 --> 24:51.590]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm gonna page myself.
[24:55.260 --> 24:56.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for calling.
[24:57.780 --> 24:59.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, let's see if the pagers are back.
[25:01.300 --> 25:02.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: So far, nothing.
[25:04.700 --> 25:05.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-oh.
[25:06.840 --> 25:07.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, uh...
[25:07.560 --> 25:08.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: We might have a problem.
[25:11.320 --> 25:12.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sometimes it takes a while, you know?
[25:12.560 --> 25:15.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Maybe a lot of people are using the network, and sometimes it can take...
[25:15.200 --> 25:15.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ah, here we go.
[25:17.200 --> 25:17.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: There we are.
[25:18.160 --> 25:18.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[25:19.680 --> 25:21.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's interesting, because that's not the number I entered.
[25:22.120 --> 25:23.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: It duplicated all the numbers.
[25:23.920 --> 25:26.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, um, it got the message across for the most part.
[25:26.180 --> 25:30.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, the thing is, you know, you don't really know how vulnerable you are until something like this happens.
[25:31.360 --> 25:49.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: We focus on this kind of thing week after week, and nobody here knew that all it would take would be a single error on the computer to make a satellite go slightly away out of orbit, point in the wrong direction, and every single pager in the country virtually is affected.
[25:51.220 --> 25:54.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: That was, uh, an enlightening experience.
[25:56.260 --> 25:57.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, it's all working again.
[25:57.680 --> 25:58.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, what I don't understand, though, is...
[25:58.940 --> 25:59.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: What's wrong with these people?
[25:59.940 --> 26:00.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: They had no backup?
[26:01.180 --> 26:02.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: No backup whatsoever?
[26:03.560 --> 26:05.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, they must have known...
[26:05.340 --> 26:07.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: They must have known that this could happen.
[26:08.000 --> 26:16.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: When they realized they only had one satellite handling all the pager traffic, you know, if that one satellite goes away, then they have no pager traffic.
[26:16.540 --> 26:17.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's not that hard to figure out.
[26:18.560 --> 26:22.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, uh, maybe they learned their lesson, maybe they didn't.
[26:22.760 --> 26:25.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, uh, I think consumers certainly did.
[26:26.440 --> 26:32.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: And speaking of enlightenment, Janet Reno, who is pretty much the face of enlightenment...
[26:33.500 --> 26:34.020]  Um...
[26:34.020 --> 26:36.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, it's gotta be the face of something.
[26:38.380 --> 26:40.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is her comment on computers.
[26:42.800 --> 26:44.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: This comes from the, uh...
[26:44.960 --> 26:46.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: St. Paul Pioneer Planet.
[26:48.020 --> 26:49.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know the one Clark Kent works for?
[26:50.380 --> 26:51.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, that one.
[26:51.740 --> 26:57.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, Attorney General Janet Reno confesses she's only a few steps beyond Abe Lincoln when it comes to taking notes.
[26:58.520 --> 27:05.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: While she hasn't opted for charcoal and a shovel, Reno is using pen and paper to write her high-powered legal notes.
[27:07.080 --> 27:12.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: At this moment, I do not have a personal relationship with a computer, she said, at a recent press conference.
[27:13.580 --> 27:26.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: She tried one, but, and here's the quote, it got so confusing as to what was on the computer, or what wasn't on the computer, what was on the hard drive, what was on the soft drive, that...
[27:26.860 --> 27:30.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: that it made it easier for me just to do my work with pen and pencil.
[27:32.320 --> 27:33.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: No paper, just pen and pencil.
[27:34.180 --> 27:35.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: She writes on the desk.
[27:37.300 --> 27:38.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Soft drive, yeah.
[27:39.220 --> 27:42.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Janet soft drive Reno, that's what we're gonna call her from now on.
[27:43.500 --> 27:49.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Alright, speaking of government, boy, uh, we talked about the, uh, the loft thing for just a couple of minutes last week.
[27:50.300 --> 27:52.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know that, that, that, that quote?
[27:53.020 --> 27:54.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: That everybody's been, like, quoting?
[27:54.760 --> 27:55.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: What's that?
[27:55.100 --> 27:59.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know if it's really a quote, because, uh, I haven't seen it in context yet.
[27:59.540 --> 28:06.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: We haven't been successful getting a hold of those people because I, I imagine they're, they're in demand after, after things like that got out.
[28:06.880 --> 28:15.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, basically, the, um, the, the, the idea was that hackers could take down the entire Internet in 30 minutes or less.
[28:16.620 --> 28:17.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's right.
[28:17.320 --> 28:22.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: A band of seven hackers from Boston told the Senate committee last Tuesday they could bring down the foundation of the Internet in 30 minutes.
[28:23.640 --> 28:29.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, um, one of the people is Mudge, who was on our radio show a few, um, a few months ago, actually.
[28:30.620 --> 28:33.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing.
[28:33.240 --> 28:35.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, you're there in front of Congress.
[28:35.920 --> 28:37.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: They can be kind of intimidating.
[28:38.120 --> 28:43.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I guess, you know, things come out that maybe you don't want them to be interpreted in just that way.
[28:44.040 --> 28:47.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: I can tell you right now, hackers are not going to take down the Internet in 30.
[28:47.760 --> 28:56.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I've been getting calls from reporters now for the past, uh, couple of days ever since I got back, wanting responses to this threat that the loft poses to the Internet.
[28:56.980 --> 29:08.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, of course, you know, it doesn't take a, um, a rocket scientist to realize that, uh, saying, I can take down the Internet in 30 minutes is going to be perceived as a threat by some dim-minded, uh, media people.
[29:09.320 --> 29:17.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, there are certainly security problems that could result in somebody with the proper access.
[29:19.340 --> 29:21.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: And access to a lot of different things.
[29:22.520 --> 29:27.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, knowledge to achieve a desired effect.
[29:30.760 --> 29:34.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, the desire to do something bad.
[29:34.380 --> 29:35.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: All that wrapped together.
[29:36.060 --> 29:38.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, yeah, somebody could cause significant mayhem.
[29:39.360 --> 29:41.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's never really been an issue.
[29:47.800 --> 29:51.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thing is, is it a threat from hackers?
[29:51.620 --> 29:52.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: The answer is no.
[29:52.300 --> 29:56.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hackers are not going to take down the Internet in, uh, 30 minutes.
[29:58.060 --> 30:00.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, no need to panic.
[30:00.900 --> 30:09.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, definite need to increase security because there are all kinds of technical problems, all kinds of security issues that are definitely relevant.
[30:10.020 --> 30:16.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, things as stupid as, you know, satellites that don't have any backup, same mentality goes into some aspects of the Internet.
[30:16.440 --> 30:16.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Internet.
[30:16.920 --> 30:28.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's what you have to take into consideration, is that, uh, a failure, in one way, can lead to a failure somewhere else, and it just keeps multiplying until you have a complete breakdown of communication.
[30:30.120 --> 30:31.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what you have to watch out for.
[30:32.220 --> 30:36.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's, I think, what the people at the loft were, uh, trying to warn Congress about.
[30:36.720 --> 30:45.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of course, you know, I've been there, I've been in front of Congress, I know that, uh, you say certain things, and it doesn't exactly get interpreted the way you want it to be interpreted.
[30:45.740 --> 30:48.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: So I think we, we know what the interpretation was meant to be.
[30:49.360 --> 30:53.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: The boneheads in the media, of course, will get it wrong every time.
[30:56.500 --> 31:04.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Probably the best thing to do is just to seek knowledge and play around with systems, and you'll know for yourself what's possible and what isn't possible.
[31:05.520 --> 31:11.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think reading the paper really, uh, will give you much in the way of, uh, knowledge as far as that goes.
[31:12.080 --> 31:15.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, and finally, before we take some phone calls, 212-279-3400.
[31:16.420 --> 31:24.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: A new software package will be released on Friday that allows parents to secretly monitor their kids' Internet usage.
[31:26.020 --> 31:36.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: While products have been used to clock net surfing at the office for a couple of years, some people question whether or not covert supervision is a healthy way of keeping an eye on where kids are going online.
[31:38.140 --> 31:53.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: the product called Prudence tracks all online destinations visited by youthful net surfers recording URLs, bookmarks, cache activity, graphics, and cookies at intervals determined by the user.
[31:53.540 --> 32:02.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Prudence can be configured to simply log the information for parental perusal or to download and encrypt all graphics storing them in a hidden file on the user's hard drive for later scrutiny.
[32:14.720 --> 32:31.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: And for the concerned parent who doesn't want to wait until the end of the work day to discover that little Ashley or Leo has been dropping into erotic.com the area nation or gay.net Prudence will email logs to a parent at the office issuing an update every few minutes.
[32:40.080 --> 32:42.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know about you, but that makes me feel so much more secure.
[32:46.350 --> 32:47.510]  I am Marco!
[32:48.310 --> 32:49.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am Marco!
[32:50.610 --> 32:51.350]  I am Marco!
[32:51.390 --> 32:51.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: I am Marco!
[32:51.670 --> 32:54.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right, 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
[32:55.850 --> 33:03.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, we're listening incidentally to some music I brought back from Holland, the sounds of Rotterdam.
[33:04.250 --> 33:05.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am Marco!
[33:05.670 --> 33:06.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am Marco!
[33:06.550 --> 33:08.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: You never gonna keep me now!
[33:08.230 --> 33:08.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am Marco!
[33:09.150 --> 33:11.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's quite a rave scene in Rotterdam.
[33:11.990 --> 33:13.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: You thought it was all shipping.
[33:13.610 --> 33:13.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: No!
[33:14.490 --> 33:15.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's a lot more going on there.
[33:45.090 --> 33:45.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, are we ready?
[33:46.330 --> 33:51.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, 212-279-3400 And you know, I have a feeling.
[33:51.650 --> 33:54.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have a feeling that I won't be saying that number very much longer.
[33:57.490 --> 34:00.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, uh, we'll get into that a little bit later.
[34:08.280 --> 34:09.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're thinking, we're thinking.
[34:14.100 --> 34:14.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[34:15.180 --> 34:15.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on Off The Hook.
[34:16.100 --> 34:17.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, good afternoon, Emmanuel.
[34:17.580 --> 34:18.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, good evening.
[34:18.220 --> 34:18.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, it is evening.
[34:18.880 --> 34:20.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Depending on where you're calling from, though.
[34:20.540 --> 34:20.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, no.
[34:20.900 --> 34:22.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: It could be afternoon, it could be morning.
[34:22.500 --> 34:24.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's definitely evening where I am.
[34:24.200 --> 34:30.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let me just immediately interrupt you by saying that, uh, when I was in Amsterdam, I was talking to some people, and you know what?
[34:30.240 --> 34:31.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: There are listeners over there.
[34:31.300 --> 34:34.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Some guy came up to me and said, hey, I listen to your show every week.
[34:34.300 --> 34:38.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, it's the most amazing thing to be in a foreign country and have people come up to you who can hear the show.
[34:38.780 --> 34:42.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, of course, that's thanks to all the people who help out in coding the show on the Internet.
[34:43.520 --> 34:46.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, get it out there to those people who otherwise would never hear it.
[34:48.400 --> 34:49.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, you may speak now.
[34:49.520 --> 34:50.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay, thank you.
[34:50.660 --> 34:51.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry about that.
[34:51.240 --> 34:51.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Quick question.
[34:51.720 --> 34:57.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was just wondering if you know if it's true that, uh, Fodberg and Rebel got married and moved to Hawaii.
[34:58.060 --> 35:00.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, no, I don't think that's...
[35:00.320 --> 35:01.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that's true.
[35:01.440 --> 35:02.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think that's true.
[35:02.440 --> 35:05.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, again, it's another instance of how the media botches everything.
[35:06.080 --> 35:08.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, uh, just keep that in mind.
[35:08.580 --> 35:08.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[35:09.080 --> 35:09.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[35:11.420 --> 35:14.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, so far, the second caller is more intelligent than the first caller.
[35:15.020 --> 35:17.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's see if the third caller can top that.
[35:17.260 --> 35:17.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[35:17.880 --> 35:18.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[35:19.480 --> 35:19.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[35:20.060 --> 35:20.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[35:21.720 --> 35:25.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can you give me that number which you gave out a couple weeks ago with the substations?
[35:26.660 --> 35:27.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: That number to...
[35:27.740 --> 35:28.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: What, huh?
[35:28.220 --> 35:31.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: When you call the number, it tells you, you know, 13th Street.
[35:31.520 --> 35:33.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, oh, you mean, uh, to identify your central office.
[35:33.920 --> 35:34.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Are you in New York?
[35:34.740 --> 35:34.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[35:35.220 --> 35:37.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, you dial your exchange, followed by 9901.
[35:38.560 --> 35:38.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: 9901.
[35:39.320 --> 35:41.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, also, on a phone bill question.
[35:41.320 --> 35:41.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[35:42.100 --> 35:44.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every month, we're gonna get this 95-cent surcharge.
[35:45.040 --> 35:46.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: What 95 surcharge is this?
[35:46.360 --> 35:47.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you know what I'm talking about?
[35:47.400 --> 35:47.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't...
[35:47.680 --> 35:50.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Every surcharge that happens catches me by surprise.
[35:50.760 --> 35:52.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, there's something, um...
[35:52.560 --> 35:52.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hold it.
[35:53.000 --> 35:54.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've got the phone bill here in front of me.
[35:56.120 --> 35:56.560]  Um...
[35:57.120 --> 35:59.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you have a phone line, Mm-hmm.
[35:59.240 --> 36:01.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, um, charge you per phone line now.
[36:01.840 --> 36:03.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, they charge you for every second line.
[36:04.000 --> 36:05.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I only have one phone.
[36:06.000 --> 36:06.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um...
[36:06.440 --> 36:10.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: and I get a 95-cent, um...
[36:10.180 --> 36:10.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: bill.
[36:10.980 --> 36:11.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is it?
[36:12.660 --> 36:14.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a number you can call up in the recording.
[36:14.920 --> 36:18.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think you once recalled it up on the air several weeks ago.
[36:18.280 --> 36:19.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I was told...
[36:19.200 --> 36:19.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not sure.
[36:19.740 --> 36:21.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: It might be a different surcharge, but I was told that...
[36:21.580 --> 36:21.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, here it is.
[36:22.000 --> 36:23.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Carry a line charges.
[36:23.480 --> 36:23.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[36:23.880 --> 36:27.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: For explanation, please call 1-800-532-2021.
[36:28.020 --> 36:28.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, and did you call that number?
[36:28.960 --> 36:30.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, there's a whole thing, um...
[36:31.660 --> 36:32.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: It goes on for a couple of minutes.
[36:33.400 --> 36:33.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[36:33.500 --> 36:34.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, is this every...
[36:34.060 --> 36:35.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this every month I'm gonna get this?
[36:36.040 --> 36:38.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, if that's what it says, um...
[36:38.160 --> 36:39.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: How is it defined again?
[36:39.100 --> 36:39.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: What kind of a surcharge?
[36:39.920 --> 36:41.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Carry a line charge.
[36:41.340 --> 36:44.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, well, apparently that's just for your line, but, uh...
[36:44.440 --> 36:50.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was also under the impression that there's a couple of dollars, maybe it's $1.50 every month, for every additional line.
[36:50.480 --> 36:50.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well...
[36:50.660 --> 36:57.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: And for people who want to avoid that, the way you avoid that is to have different lines in different names.
[36:57.440 --> 36:57.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right, huh?
[36:57.620 --> 36:59.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, if you're clever, it's not that hard to do.
[36:59.760 --> 37:00.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right, right.
[37:00.040 --> 37:01.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you don't get charged that extra fee.
[37:01.720 --> 37:02.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I know.
[37:02.380 --> 37:03.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have, um...
[37:03.600 --> 37:04.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Non-jumping numbers, too.
[37:05.560 --> 37:05.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mm-hmm.
[37:06.020 --> 37:07.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: You get a bunch of different numbers.
[37:07.900 --> 37:08.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you don't...
[37:08.380 --> 37:09.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, you mean hunting.
[37:09.880 --> 37:10.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hunting numbers, yeah.
[37:10.920 --> 37:11.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, right, right.
[37:12.000 --> 37:14.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, there's no way they get rid of this crazy stuff.
[37:14.560 --> 37:17.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, well, they just keep adding these crazy fees.
[37:17.600 --> 37:18.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: They just do.
[37:18.540 --> 37:25.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, another fee is going to be added pretty soon, having to do with wiring up the Internet, uh, to, uh, to our nation's schools.
[37:25.320 --> 37:30.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, you know, nobody would deny that, you know, nobody would deny our little kids the right to, uh, have the Internet.
[37:30.480 --> 37:31.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: No one learned anything before the Internet.
[37:32.020 --> 37:37.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right, so, uh, of course, we're going to have to add that to the phone bill, and, um, that'll be a couple more bucks.
[37:37.280 --> 37:41.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, the tape you played in the beginning from a Miss, um, that, that phony Pepsi commercial?
[37:41.960 --> 37:42.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[37:42.260 --> 37:44.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Is that from the stores, that, uh, CD?
[37:44.220 --> 37:45.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you know, that's an interesting thing.
[37:45.400 --> 37:53.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: When, when, when you question corporations, you find yourself not being carried in various places that the corporations run.
[37:53.780 --> 37:53.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Where can I get that?
[37:54.320 --> 37:58.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, what, what I would do is do a web search for Negativland.
[37:58.660 --> 38:02.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's, uh, I think you can get it from CD Now, which is a, a, a website.
[38:02.900 --> 38:03.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: CD Now.
[38:03.480 --> 38:05.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm pretty sure you can just get it over the net.
[38:06.060 --> 38:08.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: If, if you can't find it in an independent, uh, record store.
[38:08.660 --> 38:09.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: What I would suggest doing...
[38:09.620 --> 38:10.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: What part of New York are you in?
[38:10.700 --> 38:10.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Brooklyn.
[38:11.180 --> 38:13.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, there are all kinds of independent record stores.
[38:13.840 --> 38:14.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Go to one of them.
[38:14.620 --> 38:16.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ask them if they have the, the new Negativland record.
[38:16.920 --> 38:21.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, um, and I'm sure they'll, uh, if they haven't heard of it, they'll, they'll try at least to get it.
[38:21.640 --> 38:23.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: And if you fail as far as that goes, try the web.
[38:23.580 --> 38:23.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[38:23.860 --> 38:24.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[38:24.140 --> 38:24.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks a lot.
[38:24.640 --> 38:24.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great show.
[38:25.100 --> 38:25.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[38:25.320 --> 38:25.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Take care.
[38:26.380 --> 38:27.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: That is interesting.
[38:27.180 --> 38:36.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, if nobody questions you, if you walk around the mall with, uh, you know, the emblem of a company that, uh, ensleeves all these people in various parts of the world.
[38:37.200 --> 38:40.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, uh, try walking around with a pro-choice shirt or something like that.
[38:40.260 --> 38:41.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: And boy, will you get dirty looks, you know?
[38:41.920 --> 38:43.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's like, you know, this, this requires thinking.
[38:43.580 --> 38:48.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: This requires some sort of, uh, you know, controversial, uh, uh, dilemma here.
[38:48.980 --> 38:52.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Or go around with something that, uh, you know, criticizes Nike.
[38:52.460 --> 38:53.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I'm sure you'll get attacked for that too.
[38:54.580 --> 38:56.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, the corporations have to be protected.
[38:57.040 --> 38:58.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: Nobody wants to offend them.
[38:59.460 --> 39:00.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's, uh, it's just sad.
[39:01.500 --> 39:02.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[39:02.220 --> 39:02.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[39:03.600 --> 39:03.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello.
[39:04.360 --> 39:04.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[39:05.240 --> 39:05.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm on the air?
[39:05.820 --> 39:06.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, you are.
[39:06.920 --> 39:07.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[39:07.740 --> 39:09.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I have a question.
[39:09.960 --> 39:11.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I don't, I don't sound like this.
[39:11.840 --> 39:12.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm on the air.
[39:12.300 --> 39:12.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello?
[39:13.040 --> 39:13.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Trust me, you're on the air.
[39:14.560 --> 39:21.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, um, my question is, um, concerning the, um, PCS phones and the cellular phones.
[39:22.060 --> 39:22.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[39:22.360 --> 39:26.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just wanted to know the basic difference between the two, if there is one in fact.
[39:26.220 --> 39:34.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, um, I've heard, um, young kids talking about how they clone phones, um, through laptop computers.
[39:34.300 --> 39:35.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering how that was done.
[39:35.820 --> 39:35.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[39:36.000 --> 39:46.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, there, there are programs that, that capture ESNs and, and, uh, all kinds of, of, of information that allow you to, to clone the old-fashioned cellular phones, the ones that operate in 800 megahertz.
[39:46.340 --> 39:46.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[39:46.500 --> 39:49.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, those phones are insecure, they're bulky, they're expensive.
[39:50.480 --> 39:54.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, you know, you can listen to them just by turning on a scanner, which is illegal, of course, but you can do it.
[39:55.500 --> 40:00.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, the new PCS phones operating in the 1900 megahertz, uh, and, and there are two different kinds of those.
[40:00.760 --> 40:08.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's, uh, CDMA, which is Sprint PCS, uh, which, believe me, they have oversold the area like nobody's business.
[40:08.480 --> 40:10.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, because I always hear Sprint PCS.
[40:10.780 --> 40:14.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but, uh, I'm saying they, they can't handle the number of customers they have.
[40:14.360 --> 40:14.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, they can't.
[40:14.480 --> 40:16.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to wait to, to make phone calls.
[40:16.160 --> 40:20.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: You, most of the time you don't get your phone calls cause they just, you know, there's not enough circuits.
[40:20.380 --> 40:20.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Really?
[40:20.620 --> 40:23.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: So they have to expand a bit because they've been overselling so much.
[40:23.820 --> 40:26.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: And then there's Omnipoint, which is the GSM provider in the area.
[40:26.760 --> 40:27.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh...
[40:27.160 --> 40:28.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: GSM and PCS meaning what?
[40:28.880 --> 40:29.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: If...
[40:29.200 --> 40:33.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, PCS encompasses both CDMA and, and, uh, GSM.
[40:34.040 --> 40:35.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, it stands for personal communication services.
[40:36.180 --> 40:40.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's basically the, the more intelligent types of, of mobile phones.
[40:40.700 --> 40:43.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: You can get things like, you know, uh, email.
[40:43.900 --> 40:46.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: You can get, uh, news headlines and weather.
[40:46.260 --> 40:47.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And of course, stock quotes.
[40:47.580 --> 40:48.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: You can get all that.
[40:48.520 --> 40:53.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, more importantly, you can make phone calls and they're, they're, they're cheaper.
[40:54.020 --> 40:59.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: They, they tend to be a lot cheaper or they're, they're, in theory, they're supposed to be a lot cheaper than they really are right now.
[40:59.760 --> 41:02.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, but it's what the, what the whole world is moving towards.
[41:02.500 --> 41:02.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[41:02.620 --> 41:05.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see a lot of advertisements, um, saying that there's no credit check.
[41:05.600 --> 41:06.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, you can get, uh...
[41:06.520 --> 41:07.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, that's not true.
[41:07.160 --> 41:12.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: There is a credit check on, I mean, you can get probably, uh, uh, a pay first plan where there is no credit check.
[41:12.860 --> 41:16.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: But if you get the card where you want to get a bill, they do a credit check.
[41:16.040 --> 41:16.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh.
[41:16.720 --> 41:23.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, um, one question, uh, concerning the, um, coin refund department of, uh, Bell Atlantic.
[41:23.500 --> 41:23.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[41:24.000 --> 41:27.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, previously you would, you could, uh, just make a phone call, right?
[41:27.660 --> 41:27.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[41:27.880 --> 41:31.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: To the operator and she would just bill it to your home phone.
[41:31.540 --> 41:40.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now you have to go through a whole process, speak into an automated service and you have to give your name, your address, the phone number, which, uh, of the public phone which you're using.
[41:40.500 --> 41:42.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And sometimes they don't even have a phone number.
[41:42.380 --> 41:42.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[41:42.620 --> 41:46.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the amount of, uh, of, uh, money that you lost.
[41:46.300 --> 41:46.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[41:46.580 --> 41:54.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you would have to wait probably a month or so to get a measly 25 cents or 50 cents check in the mail instead of just crediting it to the, to your bill.
[41:54.440 --> 41:55.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you know why they're doing that now?
[41:55.700 --> 41:58.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, that could be a Bell Atlantic thing as opposed to a 9x thing.
[41:58.660 --> 41:58.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Really?
[41:59.040 --> 42:02.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not sure because I, I, I haven't, I don't use payphones anymore.
[42:03.140 --> 42:05.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: So I don't have to worry about credit anymore.
[42:05.700 --> 42:15.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, but I would imagine if, if that's the case, you know, what, what I suggest people do, if you're, if you spend an inordinate amount of time getting what is rightfully yours, you add a little fee.
[42:16.080 --> 42:17.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because, you know, they add all the fees they want.
[42:18.060 --> 42:19.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, nobody ever questions that.
[42:19.340 --> 42:19.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[42:19.600 --> 42:22.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Why can't consumers have their little fees as well?
[42:22.700 --> 42:30.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, you made me spend five minutes on the phone going through your voicemail systems, trying to figure out, you know, how to hit the right key to get the right option.
[42:30.300 --> 42:30.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[42:30.600 --> 42:31.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, five dollars.
[42:31.340 --> 42:32.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's five dollars right there, you know?
[42:32.980 --> 42:33.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know what I mean?
[42:33.820 --> 42:38.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: And sometimes when it, it says press one, if, uh, I forget what, what it asks.
[42:38.560 --> 42:44.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you press one and sometimes there's some kind of feature on the phone, some electronic feature that says invalid option.
[42:44.540 --> 42:46.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it just disconnects your phone, your conversation.
[42:47.340 --> 42:48.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you have to dial operate again.
[42:49.140 --> 42:49.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh huh.
[42:49.440 --> 42:50.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm like, what the hell is this?
[42:50.820 --> 42:50.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[42:51.020 --> 42:52.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't understand that at all.
[42:52.600 --> 42:56.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, do they, are they really trying to deter me to, to get my, what, what I'm due?
[42:56.900 --> 42:57.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, come on.
[42:57.600 --> 42:59.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've lost like, who knows how much money on public phones.
[42:59.920 --> 43:06.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: You just have to keep, uh, keep at them, you know, because eventually if enough people complain about what the problems are, something will happen.
[43:07.240 --> 43:09.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: They either stop taking complaints or they might actually fix them.
[43:10.040 --> 43:10.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[43:10.300 --> 43:15.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the, the original, uh, manner in which they took care of that problem was so much simpler.
[43:15.460 --> 43:17.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: The operator would just be like, I'm sorry.
[43:17.160 --> 43:19.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, you, I'll credit it to your phone bill.
[43:19.320 --> 43:23.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you would see minus 25 cents, minus 50 cents, minus a dollar 25 on your bill.
[43:24.040 --> 43:24.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[43:24.240 --> 43:26.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that was just so much, uh, easier.
[43:26.560 --> 43:28.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you know, it must be taking them longer to do it this way too.
[43:29.040 --> 43:29.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Really?
[43:29.920 --> 43:30.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: And they sent up checks after all.
[43:30.800 --> 43:31.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: They have to mail them.
[43:31.840 --> 43:33.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Cost them money to mail a check.
[43:33.340 --> 43:33.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, right, right.
[43:33.900 --> 43:41.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I mean, I, I really think that they, their, their, uh, premise is that, I guess, this is going to deter people.
[43:41.840 --> 43:46.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you have to spell out, spell your first name, spell your last name.
[43:46.280 --> 43:46.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[43:46.340 --> 43:49.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Give me your complete address, including zip code.
[43:49.140 --> 43:50.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Give me your telephone number.
[43:50.240 --> 43:53.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Give me the phone number of the public phone in which you lost your change.
[43:53.840 --> 43:53.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, right, right.
[43:53.880 --> 43:56.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, sometimes, like I said, they don't even have a number.
[43:56.220 --> 43:57.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sure, and, uh...
[43:57.500 --> 44:00.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's enough, it's enough to make people want to give up.
[44:00.380 --> 44:02.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I think that's sort of what, what they're shooting for.
[44:02.860 --> 44:04.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that's the mentality, man.
[44:04.060 --> 44:04.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[44:04.460 --> 44:14.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, my, my advice is you just sort of save the amount of, uh, of, you know, of times into, like, one major time that you call.
[44:14.960 --> 44:15.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[44:15.480 --> 44:15.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know?
[44:15.880 --> 44:16.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[44:16.280 --> 44:18.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: And then just do it once a month or something like that.
[44:18.540 --> 44:19.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I think that's the best way.
[44:20.240 --> 44:21.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, do you know anything about the MetroCards?
[44:22.180 --> 44:23.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, what about the MetroCards?
[44:23.400 --> 44:27.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes, uh, I, I swear I'm getting, I'm getting jerked.
[44:27.220 --> 44:33.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll buy, like, a $6 prepaid MetroCard, which, which means, uh, I have, uh, one to four, right?
[44:33.420 --> 44:33.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[44:33.640 --> 44:34.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have, uh, four fares.
[44:35.220 --> 44:42.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the other day, I'm running, it's like two o'clock in the morning, I hear my train, I run, and I swipe, and then it tells me I have an insufficient balance.
[44:42.940 --> 44:44.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I knew I had at least one more fare.
[44:45.180 --> 44:45.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[44:45.560 --> 44:48.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, what's going on with, what's up with that?
[44:48.480 --> 44:51.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's a, it's a bad system, because you really have no way of proving it.
[44:52.120 --> 44:52.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know?
[44:52.860 --> 44:54.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, they tell you, hold the card, keep the card.
[44:55.000 --> 44:55.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[44:55.020 --> 44:56.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Remember the time and date.
[44:56.460 --> 44:58.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I don't have time to do all that.
[44:58.420 --> 44:58.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[44:58.640 --> 44:59.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then mail it in.
[44:59.980 --> 45:00.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[45:00.820 --> 45:03.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: The, the onus is on the consumer, and that's just not right.
[45:04.260 --> 45:04.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that sucks.
[45:04.940 --> 45:05.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: And one more thing.
[45:05.700 --> 45:08.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, is this show pre-recorded today, or?
[45:08.780 --> 45:10.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: What kind of a question is that?
[45:10.200 --> 45:11.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on live, aren't you?
[45:12.920 --> 45:13.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean...
[45:13.560 --> 45:15.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, no, no, because I don't hear myself on the air.
[45:15.780 --> 45:18.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you must be listening to the wrong station then, because you should be on the air.
[45:20.180 --> 45:21.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, you definitely should be on the air.
[45:21.920 --> 45:22.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's no question about that.
[45:23.060 --> 45:23.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: What, what are you hearing?
[45:24.080 --> 45:25.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm hearing 99.5.
[45:25.680 --> 45:27.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, yeah, but what's on 99.5?
[45:28.280 --> 45:29.440]  [SPEAKER_22]: You definitely should be on the air.
[45:29.440 --> 45:30.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: See, that's me.
[45:30.340 --> 45:31.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: I just said that.
[45:32.260 --> 45:32.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh...
[45:32.620 --> 45:34.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's, that's, that's the delay.
[45:35.340 --> 45:37.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's the delay from the transmitter to your house.
[45:37.460 --> 45:38.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: See, that's me.
[45:39.220 --> 45:40.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, I see.
[45:40.440 --> 45:41.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, well listen, thanks for calling.
[45:41.820 --> 45:43.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: We gotta go to the next, uh, call.
[45:43.660 --> 45:45.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, it's not the delay from the transmitter to your house.
[45:45.560 --> 45:49.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's the, it's a digital delay we have that radio shows do.
[45:49.600 --> 45:50.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's just the way it works.
[45:50.700 --> 45:51.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[45:51.120 --> 45:51.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[45:52.300 --> 45:52.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello?
[45:52.880 --> 45:53.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, go ahead.
[45:53.480 --> 45:58.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, um, I have a question about, uh, the article you printed in the winter issue.
[45:58.840 --> 46:01.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, the winter issue of 2600 I assume you're talking about.
[46:01.380 --> 46:04.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, turn on your radio a little bit because it's kind of confusing there.
[46:04.500 --> 46:04.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, I got you.
[46:04.840 --> 46:10.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, well, the, the blacklisted issue, blacklisted 411, you know what magazine that is?
[46:10.720 --> 46:10.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh huh.
[46:11.120 --> 46:14.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: They printed the same Walmart phone issue that you guys did.
[46:14.420 --> 46:14.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh huh.
[46:15.300 --> 46:17.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, do you guys like track that or whatever?
[46:17.680 --> 46:17.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh huh.
[46:17.900 --> 46:18.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: That doesn't happen because...
[46:18.920 --> 46:27.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, in that particular case, I, I believe what happened, and again, I, this is just from memory, the person without telling us submitted it to another magazine.
[46:27.780 --> 46:32.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I don't think they had any way of knowing that we printed it because they came out with it shortly after we printed it.
[46:33.300 --> 46:40.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, basically, you know, we count on people to be honest as far as when they, when they submit things, sometimes it doesn't work out.
[46:40.140 --> 46:44.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sometimes we get people that, uh, you know, don't follow the rules and there's really not much you can do about that.
[46:44.680 --> 46:51.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: We had, we had an article a couple of, uh, issues ago where, uh, a lot of people wrote in to say that it was also available on, uh, on the web.
[46:52.000 --> 46:54.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it was something that, that somebody read a year ago.
[46:54.320 --> 46:58.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's no way we can know that something is on the web, you know, because we don't read the entire web.
[46:59.180 --> 46:59.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it happens.
[47:00.220 --> 47:00.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[47:00.520 --> 47:02.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, and sometimes things get printed that shouldn't be.
[47:02.540 --> 47:07.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: And when, when it happens, we try to acknowledge it and encourage people to do better next time.
[47:07.460 --> 47:17.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And also, um, there's sort of a little dispute between me and my friend, but the movie hackers, I'm, what, what's going on with your name in that movie and that character?
[47:17.260 --> 47:17.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[47:17.640 --> 47:18.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, tell me what the dispute is.
[47:18.980 --> 47:20.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'd just like to know what the dispute is first.
[47:20.540 --> 47:28.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, he says that you were like basically helping out making the movie and that they named the character after you because it was supposed to be a model of you.
[47:28.920 --> 47:30.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that the, the, the, the name.
[47:31.160 --> 47:31.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[47:31.720 --> 47:32.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Here's the story.
[47:32.740 --> 47:32.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[47:33.060 --> 47:38.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I want everybody to take note of this because I'm going to say this once and I want it to be, to be recorded for all time.
[47:38.580 --> 47:51.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: And this can be backed up by, by previous issues of this show where you can listen to it on the Internet and see, uh, the people who put out the film, uh, uh, the author, uh, Raphael Moreau, uh, wrote this years ago.
[47:51.680 --> 47:56.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, he came to many 2600 meetings, got all kinds of material by hanging out with the characters there.
[47:57.100 --> 47:59.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, basically we got to know him.
[47:59.620 --> 48:05.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: He's, he became kind of a friend to us and, uh, people helped him out who worked for 2600.
[48:06.040 --> 48:10.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it was kind of like, you know, uh, I guess sort of like a joke, just putting a name in there.
[48:10.700 --> 48:11.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's really all it was.
[48:11.700 --> 48:11.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[48:12.040 --> 48:15.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I, I gave them some technical advice and some things and most of which they didn't follow.
[48:15.920 --> 48:22.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Unfortunately, some of the things I would have liked would have been to not have that silly graphical interface, uh, and also to, to use real red box tones.
[48:23.080 --> 48:26.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that would have driven it across a lot better than those fake things they had.
[48:26.680 --> 48:29.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, using the name was just, you know, it was just a joke.
[48:30.200 --> 48:32.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, nobody is mad at them for using the name.
[48:32.320 --> 48:34.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Nobody got anything from them for using the name.
[48:34.260 --> 48:37.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was just, you know, kind of like a nod, like they say in, in show business.
[48:38.500 --> 48:39.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's it.
[48:39.240 --> 48:40.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's really all there is to it.
[48:40.420 --> 48:41.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you really weren't invited.
[48:41.440 --> 48:43.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't, I don't look like that guy.
[48:43.240 --> 48:44.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't, I try not to act like that guy.
[48:45.640 --> 48:48.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, although, you know, he was a lot of fun to hang out with.
[48:48.600 --> 48:51.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was definitely, uh, you know, one of the characters of the film.
[48:51.960 --> 48:56.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because my friend was telling me that you were, like, basically helping out making that movie, telling them kinds of stuff.
[48:56.440 --> 48:58.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I was like, well, how could he let them use Macs?
[48:58.360 --> 48:58.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh huh.
[48:59.580 --> 49:02.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, yeah, you see, the reason, and here we go with the corporate stuff again.
[49:03.400 --> 49:06.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mac donated computers to them, and they got to keep the computers.
[49:06.500 --> 49:09.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, of course, every time you see a film, you're watching a lot of commercials.
[49:10.080 --> 49:11.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: And see how many of them you can pick out.
[49:11.480 --> 49:12.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh yeah, there's Pepsi.
[49:12.820 --> 49:16.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: People drink Coke and Pepsi, and they, they're wearing their Nikes and all that.
[49:16.380 --> 49:20.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, watch, watch a professional sports team, and you'll see all the endorsements.
[49:21.220 --> 49:22.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, everything is corporate.
[49:22.300 --> 49:24.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: They named the stadiums after corporations now.
[49:24.580 --> 49:29.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's, that's why a station like this and a show like this is important, because we don't have any of that.
[49:29.960 --> 49:31.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, we just speak our minds.
[49:31.420 --> 49:42.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you may not always agree with what we have to say, but at least, you know, nobody is standing over us with a whip saying, uh, you know, you have to mention this company every, every few minutes, you know, and, and collect your check and all that kind of thing.
[49:42.020 --> 49:42.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[49:43.080 --> 49:44.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, uh, does that answer your question?
[49:44.700 --> 49:45.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[49:45.240 --> 49:45.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks a lot.
[49:46.080 --> 49:46.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[49:46.400 --> 49:46.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[49:48.740 --> 49:48.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[49:49.560 --> 49:49.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[49:49.900 --> 49:50.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Enough shout outs there.
[49:51.440 --> 49:54.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: 212-279-3400 is our, our telephone number.
[49:54.280 --> 49:54.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[49:54.960 --> 49:55.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[49:56.280 --> 49:56.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey.
[49:56.820 --> 49:57.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: How you doing?
[49:57.240 --> 49:58.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a couple of comments.
[49:58.640 --> 50:00.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, first off, it's Apple.
[50:00.180 --> 50:00.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not Mac.
[50:01.060 --> 50:01.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, okay.
[50:01.560 --> 50:02.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: The company's name is Apple.
[50:02.280 --> 50:02.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I know.
[50:02.840 --> 50:03.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: I know.
[50:03.220 --> 50:03.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[50:03.440 --> 50:03.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[50:04.040 --> 50:04.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh,
[50:07.720 --> 50:11.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: second, I have a Nike shirt on me right now, and it says made in the USA.
[50:11.140 --> 50:12.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, the shirts are made in the USA.
[50:13.000 --> 50:13.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, let me ask you something.
[50:13.900 --> 50:14.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Where'd you get the shirt?
[50:15.120 --> 50:15.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, a store.
[50:16.560 --> 50:17.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, all right.
[50:17.620 --> 50:18.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like JCPenney's or something.
[50:18.660 --> 50:18.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[50:19.200 --> 50:20.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: How much did you pay for it?
[50:20.220 --> 50:20.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: I assume you paid for it.
[50:21.320 --> 50:22.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yeah.
[50:22.320 --> 50:23.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: They didn't just give it to you.
[50:23.000 --> 50:24.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Over 20 bucks, I suppose.
[50:24.520 --> 50:24.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[50:24.540 --> 50:26.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, my, my, my next question is the most important one.
[50:27.220 --> 50:27.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[50:27.340 --> 50:30.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Why do you wear a corporate endorsement like that?
[50:30.640 --> 50:31.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Peer pressure.
[50:31.480 --> 50:32.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Peer pressure.
[50:32.420 --> 50:32.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Peer pressure.
[50:33.160 --> 50:35.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: So it's kind of like smoking, but it's, it's, it's wearing a shirt.
[50:36.240 --> 50:37.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yeah.
[50:37.180 --> 50:37.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Something like that.
[50:37.720 --> 50:43.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, so your friends informed you that you would no longer be welcome in their circles unless you wore that corporate endorsement.
[50:43.860 --> 50:46.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, no, but I mean, it's just everybody wears it.
[50:46.300 --> 50:52.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, uh, I know some people who would, who say, yeah, you're sure it's gay because it doesn't say Nike on it.
[50:52.420 --> 50:52.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[50:52.860 --> 50:55.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: And of course, gay means bad in these, in these, this day and age, right?
[50:55.960 --> 50:56.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[50:56.200 --> 50:56.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[50:57.000 --> 51:04.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, no, that's interesting because, um, you know, if, if, if you just try and count the number of people, I had no idea.
[51:04.380 --> 51:05.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, this is sort of pervasive.
[51:06.120 --> 51:13.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: You, you, you didn't know it was, it was creeping up on you like this until you, you actually looked for it and said, how many people are wearing these Nike emblems?
[51:13.800 --> 51:16.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it just, it just added up, you know, so fast.
[51:16.900 --> 51:17.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was scary.
[51:17.680 --> 51:20.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: I had to, you know, it's scary enough for me to be in a mall in the first place.
[51:20.560 --> 51:22.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I'm sure it's scary for some of the people in the mall to see me there.
[51:23.120 --> 51:37.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: But when all of this was happening, you know, one after another, I was like, you know, picture like the point of view camera angle where you're like, you know, swimming through a sea of faces and you're just trying to get out and then everything becomes blurry and everything coming towards me was a Nike something or other.
[51:38.040 --> 51:39.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was, it was scary.
[51:39.440 --> 51:41.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was really horrible and scary.
[51:41.420 --> 51:42.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I don't ever want to go through that again.
[51:43.480 --> 51:45.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: I, I just don't understand why.
[51:45.860 --> 51:46.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Why is this happening?
[51:46.620 --> 51:48.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, buying shoes is one thing.
[51:48.220 --> 51:49.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: People need shoes.
[51:49.000 --> 51:51.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: People have to buy shoes and, you know, sneakers.
[51:51.540 --> 51:52.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I can understand people buying that.
[51:53.000 --> 51:56.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: But why the advertisements for the shoes on other parts of your body?
[51:56.280 --> 51:57.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: I just don't get it.
[51:57.580 --> 52:04.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Where the peer pressure, I don't, I don't see where, you know, where you have to endorse a company to be accepted in a social circle.
[52:04.820 --> 52:05.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[52:05.560 --> 52:06.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's just the way it is.
[52:06.840 --> 52:08.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Are there other companies that you wear?
[52:08.540 --> 52:12.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, well, I mean, there's like Adidas and...
[52:12.640 --> 52:14.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, Adidas is the competition of Nike, you know.
[52:15.080 --> 52:15.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[52:15.220 --> 52:15.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[52:15.400 --> 52:20.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Don't your friends criticize you for wearing the competition of that which they want you to wear to be accepted by them?
[52:20.260 --> 52:21.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, some of them.
[52:21.200 --> 52:21.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[52:21.580 --> 52:23.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: All the soccer geeks wear Adidas, though.
[52:24.360 --> 52:24.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[52:24.740 --> 52:26.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: The soccer geeks wear Adidas.
[52:26.280 --> 52:26.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[52:26.780 --> 52:27.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: See, I don't know much about Adidas.
[52:27.980 --> 52:33.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sure someone else is going to come along and make a film about Adidas that, you know, explains just what goes on in their factories.
[52:33.740 --> 52:37.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: But did you know, did you know that Nike doesn't make any shoes in the United States?
[52:37.320 --> 52:38.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: You do know that, right?
[52:38.360 --> 52:38.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yeah.
[52:38.920 --> 52:43.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, because according to the film that I saw, nobody wants to make shoes in this country.
[52:44.600 --> 52:45.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: Nobody.
[52:46.080 --> 52:46.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you believe that?
[52:47.920 --> 52:48.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sounds about right.
[52:49.100 --> 52:49.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[52:49.760 --> 52:50.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I don't know.
[52:50.760 --> 52:55.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, of course, the people who make the shoes, they make about 30 cents an hour, I think?
[52:55.060 --> 52:55.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Or is it a day?
[52:56.340 --> 52:56.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think it's a day.
[52:56.740 --> 52:57.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's not very much.
[52:57.680 --> 53:00.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, it's probably a day because they're in Indonesia and places like that.
[53:00.660 --> 53:00.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[53:01.100 --> 53:02.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: And they work in sweatshops.
[53:02.080 --> 53:06.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, of course, Nike has just raised the minimum age from 14 to 18.
[53:06.400 --> 53:08.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's after a considerable amount of pressure.
[53:09.460 --> 53:12.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think in South America, it's 30 cents a week.
[53:12.500 --> 53:12.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[53:13.020 --> 53:13.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[53:13.300 --> 53:14.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: 30 cents a week.
[53:14.880 --> 53:15.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's certainly enlightened.
[53:16.580 --> 53:18.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: The thing is, you know, a lot of people justify this.
[53:18.940 --> 53:21.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: I've been talking to a bunch of people about this over the past few days, actually.
[53:21.660 --> 53:24.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the justifications you get are really kind of funny.
[53:25.120 --> 53:30.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it's like, well, you know, somebody else would do it if they didn't do it.
[53:30.100 --> 53:33.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, somebody else would, you know, would open up a factory there.
[53:33.420 --> 53:34.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's just, it's their way of life, you know.
[53:35.040 --> 53:35.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's their way of life.
[53:35.960 --> 53:38.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it's how they've grown accustomed to living.
[53:39.200 --> 53:43.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, who are we to, you know, take away from their culture?
[53:43.260 --> 53:48.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: It becomes, you know, like, we're supporting their culture by paying them 30 cents a day or whatever to make these shoes.
[53:49.200 --> 53:53.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it's just, it's the most roundabout logic, you know, I think I've ever seen.
[53:53.060 --> 54:04.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's like, you know, you have to prove that all the other manufacturers aren't doing the same thing before you can say these people are guilty of it, you know.
[54:04.600 --> 54:11.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, Nike is guilty of this, but all the other ones are guilty too, so I'm going to buy Nike because they're just like everybody else, you know.
[54:13.200 --> 54:14.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's distorted logic.
[54:15.380 --> 54:15.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry?
[54:15.900 --> 54:17.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, nothing.
[54:17.480 --> 54:17.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[54:18.100 --> 54:20.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, um...
[54:20.020 --> 54:23.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: This has got nothing to do with telecommunications or computers, by the way, but I think...
[54:23.500 --> 54:31.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, actually it does, because it has to do with the corporate mentality and the mega-mergers that are going on and, you know, the whole Microsoft industry that we're seeing.
[54:31.420 --> 54:32.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a question about a mega-merger.
[54:33.100 --> 54:33.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, go ahead.
[54:33.800 --> 54:36.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: In Minnesota, St. Paul, Pioneer Press land...
[54:36.660 --> 54:36.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[54:38.280 --> 54:39.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: The cable company...
[54:39.900 --> 54:41.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Is that where you're calling from?
[54:41.540 --> 54:41.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[54:42.140 --> 54:42.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh.
[54:42.840 --> 54:45.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Are you the person who sent us that Pioneer Press thing?
[54:45.120 --> 54:45.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I'm Code Grease.
[54:45.960 --> 54:46.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, thank you very much.
[54:46.860 --> 54:47.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, you're welcome.
[54:47.560 --> 54:50.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: We actually found it on the web page, but it's an excellent quote.
[54:51.200 --> 54:51.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.
[54:52.020 --> 54:52.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks.
[54:52.840 --> 54:54.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: You go to the Mall of America, right?
[54:55.040 --> 54:55.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yeah.
[54:55.780 --> 54:55.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[54:56.100 --> 54:57.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Quite a place out there.
[54:57.680 --> 54:58.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Biggest mall in America.
[54:58.820 --> 54:59.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[54:59.500 --> 55:00.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, my parents are like...
[55:00.920 --> 55:01.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[55:01.820 --> 55:02.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't like that.
[55:02.860 --> 55:03.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[55:03.620 --> 55:04.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Anyway.
[55:04.460 --> 55:04.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Go ahead.
[55:05.500 --> 55:05.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: U.S.
[55:05.980 --> 55:09.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: West has always owned the cable companies out here.
[55:10.080 --> 55:10.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[55:10.380 --> 55:13.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they merged them all into one company called Media One.
[55:13.840 --> 55:14.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Media One, yes.
[55:15.120 --> 55:21.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now they claim to be like installing broadband, which is digital, voice, and cable all in one line.
[55:21.960 --> 55:22.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: And they're advertising...
[55:22.660 --> 55:27.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was in Dayton and I saw a Media One advertisement that was saying broadband, you know, broadband this, broadband that.
[55:27.580 --> 55:28.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're everywhere.
[55:28.560 --> 55:28.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[55:28.820 --> 55:31.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: These trucks, I see them every day installing stuff.
[55:31.420 --> 55:34.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: I asked a couple people, what's the deal?
[55:34.600 --> 55:40.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're like, oh, we have money and we can spend it on all this hype broadband stuff.
[55:40.600 --> 55:40.880]  Uh-huh.
[55:40.880 --> 55:42.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[55:42.860 --> 55:43.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[55:43.100 --> 55:43.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's still...
[55:43.940 --> 55:45.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right now, it's still part of the U.S.
[55:45.980 --> 55:46.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: West.
[55:46.340 --> 55:52.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm just wondering, how can one company control what you see, what you hear, what you say, and your data?
[55:53.060 --> 55:55.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I mean, that's what we're moving towards.
[55:55.300 --> 56:05.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're seeing, you know, SBC taking over Ameritech, you know, and it's just merging into one company doing all these things again.
[56:05.980 --> 56:08.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, we break them up, they just come right back together again.
[56:09.640 --> 56:12.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: And when they come back together, they're even bigger and more powerful.
[56:12.760 --> 56:13.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[56:13.220 --> 56:14.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, you have these cities.
[56:15.160 --> 56:22.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know what the situation is in St. Paul, but you have cities where the majority of all the stations are owned by the same people.
[56:22.400 --> 56:22.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, yeah.
[56:22.560 --> 56:23.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Same corporations.
[56:23.640 --> 56:23.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[56:23.940 --> 56:28.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you put on a little radio station of your own and all of a sudden, you're the threat.
[56:28.680 --> 56:35.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, you're the threat to society because someone's gonna hear an opposing view.
[56:35.600 --> 56:35.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[56:36.080 --> 56:37.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of course, you have to have opposing views.
[56:38.100 --> 56:39.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Otherwise, there's no society.
[56:39.860 --> 56:40.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's as simple as that.
[56:41.220 --> 56:41.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just U.S.
[56:41.720 --> 56:41.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: West.
[56:42.320 --> 56:42.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just what?
[56:43.040 --> 56:43.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just U.S.
[56:43.740 --> 56:43.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: West.
[56:44.440 --> 56:44.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, U.S.
[56:44.980 --> 56:45.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: West.
[56:45.320 --> 56:45.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm telling you.
[56:45.840 --> 56:46.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[56:46.360 --> 56:48.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Until they get taken over by SBC or whatever.
[56:49.900 --> 56:50.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Quite possible.
[56:51.100 --> 56:52.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right, listen, thanks very much for calling.
[56:52.380 --> 56:53.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Raised some good points.
[56:53.500 --> 56:54.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, okay, thanks.
[56:54.520 --> 56:54.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Take care.
[56:54.680 --> 57:00.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the way, quickly, someone on IRC on the channel Off the Hook wants to know what kind of shoes you wear.
[57:00.500 --> 57:02.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, you know, that's an interesting question.
[57:02.120 --> 57:03.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't wear Nikes, all right?
[57:03.600 --> 57:04.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll say that right now.
[57:04.660 --> 57:07.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't want to sell kind of shoes because I don't want to give an endorsement.
[57:07.620 --> 57:11.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: But as far as I know, and you know, I didn't think about this when I bought them, admittedly.
[57:11.680 --> 57:12.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll think in the future.
[57:12.600 --> 57:15.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think they're made in one of those places by slave labor.
[57:15.820 --> 57:16.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think.
[57:16.720 --> 57:17.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm going to look into it, though.
[57:18.520 --> 57:20.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, if they are, I certainly won't get them again.
[57:21.160 --> 57:21.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[57:21.700 --> 57:21.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right?
[57:22.280 --> 57:22.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks.
[57:22.680 --> 57:24.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think people need to do that.
[57:24.860 --> 57:26.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: They need to think a little more when they buy things.
[57:26.920 --> 57:28.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: It, you know, you don't have to do without.
[57:28.380 --> 57:36.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: You just have to think a little bit and buy something that, uh, you know, isn't quite as evil and nasty and takes advantage of people in bad ways.
[57:36.940 --> 57:37.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[57:37.360 --> 57:39.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
[57:39.520 --> 57:39.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[57:39.960 --> 57:40.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[57:42.220 --> 57:42.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[57:42.660 --> 57:45.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, that was a fun phone call, but let's try to have even more fun with this one.
[57:45.640 --> 57:45.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[57:46.020 --> 57:46.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[57:47.320 --> 57:48.340]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, sorry about that.
[57:48.440 --> 57:48.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's okay.
[57:49.140 --> 57:50.820]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, nice real audio delay there.
[57:51.320 --> 57:51.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[57:51.720 --> 57:52.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's not that bad, actually.
[57:53.400 --> 57:53.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's interesting.
[57:54.200 --> 57:54.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Anyway.
[57:54.680 --> 57:55.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Where are you calling from?
[57:55.380 --> 57:56.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm calling from Pennsylvania.
[57:56.540 --> 57:56.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[57:57.220 --> 58:00.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: I just wanted to talk about phone companies for a little bit real quick.
[58:00.620 --> 58:00.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[58:00.920 --> 58:03.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: I had a couple interesting experiences today.
[58:03.420 --> 58:03.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[58:03.600 --> 58:04.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, mostly with Sprint.
[58:05.340 --> 58:08.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: Um, and actually, I should tell you about, uh, GTE first.
[58:08.660 --> 58:10.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you only have about a minute, so...
[58:10.160 --> 58:10.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have a minute.
[58:10.660 --> 58:11.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Don't talk fast.
[58:11.240 --> 58:11.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, go ahead.
[58:11.960 --> 58:15.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: Um, GTE was making an announcement that they were gonna have ADSL all over the place, right?
[58:15.600 --> 58:16.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah, what happened?
[58:16.360 --> 58:19.340]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, anyway, I call in and kind of ask when it's gonna be in this area.
[58:19.600 --> 58:19.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[58:19.880 --> 58:22.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, the lady on the other end didn't even know what ADSL was.
[58:22.800 --> 58:22.980]  Uh-huh.
[58:23.080 --> 58:25.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, in fact, uh, thought it was ISDN or something like that.
[58:25.900 --> 58:26.040]  Uh-huh.
[58:26.120 --> 58:28.820]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, tried to explain to her it was for, uh, residential customers.
[58:29.340 --> 58:32.660]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, she wouldn't believe me, and she insisted that I call the business office in the morning.
[58:32.660 --> 58:34.160]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, that didn't work out too good.
[58:34.340 --> 58:37.920]  [SPEAKER_21]: Anyway, with Sprint, uh, we tried to order a, uh, analog lease line today.
[58:38.380 --> 58:39.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, they didn't know what they were.
[58:40.400 --> 58:42.300]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, it seemed to be something that was going around.
[58:42.300 --> 58:44.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: Anyway, they gave me about ten different phone numbers to call.
[58:44.680 --> 58:45.900]  [SPEAKER_21]: All of them, uh, long distance.
[58:46.140 --> 58:46.340]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[58:46.560 --> 58:48.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: And never, ever got through to anybody that knew what a, uh, lease line was.
[58:48.960 --> 58:49.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: But you had fun.
[58:49.460 --> 58:50.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: You met people.
[58:50.360 --> 58:51.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was fun.
[58:51.080 --> 58:52.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you played with voice processing units.
[58:52.620 --> 58:53.180]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yes, it was great.
[58:53.300 --> 58:57.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I've heard, uh, you know, I've went through just about every switching system in the world now.
[58:57.540 --> 58:59.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: Um, they actually were transferring me.
[58:59.220 --> 59:02.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, it was great, because I was through probably about seven different switches.
[59:02.000 --> 59:05.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you can hang out in a bar after work and talk about it with other people.
[59:05.920 --> 59:07.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: And be social as a result.
[59:07.440 --> 59:08.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: It was wonderful.
[59:08.260 --> 59:09.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: You know, I thank the phone company.
[59:09.500 --> 59:11.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's, uh, you know, you know, my kudos to them.
[59:12.180 --> 59:12.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[59:12.740 --> 59:14.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, uh, hope things work out better.
[59:15.280 --> 59:21.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yes, uh, but can we, uh, can we really expect that from, uh, from all these nice conglomations we have out there?
[59:21.300 --> 59:21.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[59:21.860 --> 59:22.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: We'll see.
[59:22.720 --> 59:23.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, listen, thanks very much for calling.
[59:24.040 --> 59:24.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, no problem.
[59:24.720 --> 59:24.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[59:25.060 --> 59:25.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you know what?
[59:25.640 --> 59:26.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's our last phone call.
[59:27.160 --> 59:31.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's really our last phone call, because we're, uh, we're not gonna be here.
[59:32.000 --> 59:35.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, okay, it's kind of, it's kind of not really, not gonna be here.
[59:35.760 --> 59:39.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: But we're not gonna be here, you know, in this area, anymore.
[59:40.280 --> 59:40.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[59:40.920 --> 59:49.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: The whole time, the whole time we've done this radio show, since the very first one in October of 1988, we've been in this neighborhood in, uh, 8th Avenue and 35th Street.
[59:50.380 --> 59:52.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: And as of next week, we are moving.
[59:52.960 --> 59:53.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: We are moving.
[59:53.720 --> 59:56.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know if I should tell people exactly where we're moving to.
[59:57.080 --> 01:00:01.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, uh, we're moving to an area which is kind of a strange place for, for this station to be.
[01:00:01.980 --> 01:00:03.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, maybe I'll just tell you that next week.
[01:00:03.980 --> 01:00:04.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:00:04.740 --> 01:00:06.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: We'll tell you where we're gonna be next week.
[01:00:06.180 --> 01:00:07.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's kind of a strange place.
[01:00:07.720 --> 01:00:09.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I gotta, uh, I gotta find out exactly where it is.
[01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:11.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Maybe I got the address wrong, but I went there and it was a cemetery.
[01:00:11.820 --> 01:00:15.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: So I think maybe they were trying to send me a message or, uh, or I just got it wrong.
[01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:19.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, uh, hopefully next week we'll be on the air from the new location.
[01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:23.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, there won't be any technical problems, but you know, there probably will be.
[01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:25.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's sort of what we have the most fun with.
[01:00:26.020 --> 01:00:32.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, unless something really weird happens, we'll probably have a different phone number because it's not really close to here.
[01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:35.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, um, oh, I'll tell you.
[01:00:35.640 --> 01:00:36.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll tell you.
[01:00:36.140 --> 01:00:37.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because it's just so ironic.
[01:00:38.180 --> 01:00:38.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Wall Street.
[01:00:38.940 --> 01:00:39.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Can you believe that?
[01:00:39.680 --> 01:00:43.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Can you believe WBAI is going to be in the middle of the financial district?
[01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:50.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Watch out, megacorporations, because the voice of WBAI is going to be right in the middle.
[01:00:50.540 --> 01:00:55.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're going to be, uh, radiating our voices right through your stock transactions.
[01:00:56.240 --> 01:00:59.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, maybe that will give you some pause.
[01:00:59.960 --> 01:01:02.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Until then, though, we'll see what happens.
[01:01:03.100 --> 01:01:04.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Stay, uh, stay awake.
[01:01:04.860 --> 01:01:07.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Send us an email if you see anything interesting worth reporting on.
[01:01:07.940 --> 01:01:09.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: OTH at 2600.com.
[01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:12.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, we'll see you again next week for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:01:12.660 --> 01:01:14.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Until then, Emmanuel Goldstein, have a good night.