Doug, his work in progress is The Strength of the Wolf and Hotel Tacloban.
I think the only way you can get that, I think, is on Amazon.
In any case, thanks a million, Doug, and I'll be speaking to you, my friend.
Thank you, Mike.
Triangle of Death, the thriller, based on the CIA's real-life use of unwitting guinea pigs to test mind-control drugs.
The book CIA hates to be reminded of is still, in spite of all efforts, out there.
And next week, we're going to have, well, you know, we're in a nation where the President of the United States said he smoked dope, but he didn't inhale.
And you heard myself and Detective Bobby Johnson say if he did it here in New York, it wouldn't have held water.
He'd have a 19-digit serial number in front of him instead of Commander-in-Chief.
But yet, there are people serving 90 and 100 years in prison in the United States for possession of marijuana for what?
To counteract cancer, to counteract multiple sclerosis.
Well, we're going to hear from some of those people next week.
So, guys, don't miss it.
We need you.
This is Mike Levine, an expert witness, signing off.
10 years ago, a finger-snapping, foot-stomping musical lit up the theater scene.
And now, Smoke on the Mountain is returning in a new production.
And their first performance at the Lamb's Theater will be a benefit for listener-sponsored WBAI on Friday night, June 5th.
Smoke on the Mountain, hailed by Clyde Barnes and the Post as a totally beguiling theatrical entertainment and which the New Yorker called perfectly delightful.
Among the many wonderful things about Smoke on the Mountain is that you can bring the kids or your grandparents for a joyous evening.
Join your friends from WBAI at this special performance of Smoke on the Mountain.
Friday, June 5th, curtain time, 8 o'clock, tickets, $35 a pair, and you can make reservations by calling area code 212-575-0263.
It's Smoke on the Mountain at the Lamb's Theater.
Reservations, 575-0263.
Fire in my heart.
And you're tuned to listener-sponsored commercial-free community radio, WBAI, in New York, 99.5 FM, Off the Hook, with Emmanuel Goldstein, is coming up next.
Please stay tuned.
If I had a hammer, I'd hammer it on.
I'd hammer in the evening, all over this land.
On Saturday evening, May 30th, the War Resisters League will honor Odetta, Charlie King, and the People's Voice Cafe with its annual Peace Awards.
This is the War Resisters League's 75th Anniversary Dinner and Concert with Odetta and Charlie King singing, and it's held at Riverside Church, 120th and Claremont Avenue.
So join us on May 30th at 6.30, and we'll sing our way to paradise.
For more information, call 212-228-0450.
That's 228-0450.
This has been a public service announcement for WBAI on behalf of the War Resisters League.
WBAI is listener-supported, so please,
You're generous.
Thank you.
You give yourself to those who don't deserve you
You go where you are not supposed to be
I know someday that I am going to have you
Someday you'll have to give yourself to me
It's 8 o'clock.
Time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a cough
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bum Diddly Bump
But the best expect from worst
I hope that's understood
Bum Diddly Bump
If they were to leave
Beyonce
I'm calling me
I'm calling C-P it
Let's read
them
You'reocation
Cut
Don't
Get
pay
Don't

You're
a
And a very good evening to everybody.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein, another exciting edition of Off the Hook here
on listener-supported WBAI in New York, where we have no commercials.
Before we start, a word from our commercial sponsor.
When 7-Up has got me down
When high C gets me low
My Labatt's blue ain't blue, it's brown
My Nestle's quick just makes me slow
When my sparkling cider's lost its shine
My can of Sharks is dull
Hawaiian punch has knocked me cold
A feeling hits my skull
And my mind just turns to Pepsi
And I couldn't tell you why
Smart drinks need me to forget
And Coke won't get me high
When constant calm it won't shut up
I'll sit right down and fill my cup
With Pepsi
With Pepsi
Drink it up
When diet right to me is wrong
My country times expire
My Minute Maid's an hour long
My Maxwell house won't get me wired
When my pet milk turns on me
And my five alive is dead
When my royal crown's been overthrown
An impulse hits my head
An impulse hits my head
And my mind just turns to Pepsi
And I think of it a lot
My Swiss Miss just wasn't pure
And Kool-Aid isn't hot
When a wall of smoothies rough me up
I'll turn to a bigger cup
Of Pepsi
Drink it up
When Samuel Adams makes me ale
Dr. Pepper's not around
When sweet success has let me fail
I crave a flavor most profound
And my mind just turns to Pepsi
When I look, I see, I find
My crystal light has just burned out
And Canada's gone dry
My you who will not call to me
I am a loyal endorseee
Of Pepsi
Drink it up
It's just a funny thing
Drink it up
It's just a funny thing
A Pepsi commercial
Where there's the sun setting on this bar
And you hear this guy say
Drink, drink, drink, drink, drink
And you don't know what it is
And you see in the back of the barn
There's a soda machine
And this guy has a dollar bill
Drink, drink, drink, drink
And then it takes it
And it goes
Yes, yes, yes
Oh
Everybody, drink it up
And a good evening to everybody
That, of course, was negative land
Negative land being, I guess, a band that over the years has been known for kind of spitting in the face of authority.
Spitting in the face of authority
And what better face to spit in than the face of Pepsi
They put out a whole album late last year
That pretty much was devoted to Pepsi
In fact, last week we played some of it
No, it wasn't a real commercial
Although a lot of people seem to think that
BAI suddenly started playing commercials
I mean, come on
I mean, hell will freeze over before that happens
These people put out an entire record
They didn't name it really in a traditional sense
They put a bunch of letters together
S-P-I-E-D-P-S and I
And they gave a number to call
For people to find out
What exactly
What exactly
The album was called
Because a lot of people were confused
So we're gonna call that number
Because that's what we do
We call numbers and
Figure out what they are
And this number will tell us exactly what
The letters mean
Right now
Right now
Right now
You can have it
You can have it
Right now
Good hello
You've reached Negative Land's
Word of mouth line
The title of Negative Land's new CD is spelled D-I-S-P-E-P-S-I
It's one word
And it's pronounced Dyspepsy
The choice of another generation
Okay
Okay we don't wanna leave a message
Recording erased
Thank you
Please record again after the tone
No no no no no
No we don't wanna leave a message
Okay I'm
Message sent
Oh no
Goodbye
Okay well we've just
We've just confused Negative Land
And that's the last thing I wanted to do
Oh well
That's pretty much what WBAI is about
That's pretty much what computer hackers are about
And we know that's what Negative Land is about
Questioning authority
And
Finding out things about corporations that they'd rather you not find out about
You know like Nike for instance
Now there's a corporation
Probably one of the biggest corporations around
I mean it's not Microsoft
Microsoft of course has been subjected to a lot of abuse, criticism
And unwanted news over the past few weeks
And the reason being is because they've just gotten so big
You know they're incredibly huge
They're a monopoly
In the opinion of the US government
And that's something to be concerned with
But Nike is a whole other story
They're everywhere but you don't know they're everywhere
You know I only discovered this yesterday when I was in the mall
And
I was playing a little game
You should try this
Go to the mall, wait till the show's over
Go to the mall
And
See how many people you can count
That are wearing Nike insignia of various sorts
Nike of course is that
That little like swooshy thing
Which I don't really understand
But that's what they
What they put on their shoes
And people walk around with shirts
They walk around with jackets
They walk around with hats
Some people even have it emblazoned on their forehead
And you have to wonder why
It's a corporation
It's a huge multinational corporation
They don't care about you
They sell you shoes that are vastly expensive
And
And this is why I suggest everybody go out and see the Michael Moore film
They employ slave labor in all parts of the world
I believe Asia is the most predominant
And
It's just unbelievable
Everybody buys into this kind of thing
So
You walk around the mall
And you see all these people
Wearing these corporate insignias all over them
I thought maybe, you know
In the space of a couple of minutes
I'd see five
Instead I saw
Over a dozen
And some of them are really tiny
You have to like really get close to people to see them
You know, they have the little lanky things
On their
On the backs of their necks
You know, on their collars
And
The funny thing
The really funny thing about it is that
I wasn't even looking at their shoes
And shoes are what these people sell
All I saw were the advertisements for the shoes
That people
They don't get paid to carry around these advertisements
They pay the company to advertise for them
It's something I don't understand
You go to a company
And you say, here's money
I want to advertise your product for you
And they say, okay
Here's an advertisement on a shirt
On a shirt
You can't have a shoe
You have to buy, you know
A shoe at the regular list price
Of a couple hundred bucks
Or whatever they sell them for these days
And it's just
It's crazy
A real creature
The sharing of a nation
So let's
Let's give Nike a call
Let's give Nike a call
Thank you for calling Nike Consumer Affairs
For Nike literature and product information
Press 1
For Nike retailers and factory outlets
Press 2
To share your comments and feedback
Press 3
If you are calling to speak to a Nike representative
Our call center hours are from
7 o'clock a.m. to 4.50 p.m. Pacific Time
Monday through Friday
You may return to the main menu
At any time during this call
By pressing the star key
Okay, let's press some keys
For Nike literature and product information
Press 1
For Nike literature and product information
They have a good system
Okay, goodbye, goodbye
You're no fun
Well, they leave at 4.50 Pacific Time
So that's no fun
But you know, try getting a tour
Of a U.S. manufacturing facility
You're going to have a bit of a problem
Because they don't make anything in this country
Well, maybe they make the shirts
I don't know
Maybe they make the armbands
The billboards and whatever else
So that's something that just has always amazed me
About American culture
And I was overseas this past week in Holland
Giving a talk at the 5th anniversary of Access for All
Which is now the 3rd largest internet provider over there
Get this, it started as a hacker magazine
It started as Hacktick magazine
And in fact, a lot of you were around for this
As Off the Hook has aired over the past almost 10 years
Hacktick was published in the late 80s
And that turned into an internet service provider
Known as Access for All
Which became one of the largest providers
In the entire country of Holland
And now they've been around for 5 years
The magazine isn't around anymore, unfortunately
Hopefully something else will come up and take its place
But Access for All has been around for 5 years
And they had a party last Friday
And what I tried to do was get word out about the whole Kevin Mitnick case
Because people over there don't really know about what's going on there
They don't really know about the fact that somebody in this country
Has been in prison for over 3 years
Without any sort of a trial
Without any sort of a prospect of a trial
I mean it sounds unbelievable when you consider it that way
And people are fascinated by this particular case
What's interesting is I went over there with a whole bunch of
Free Kevin bumper stickers
Which are the exact same style as
And I didn't know this, I swear
The exact same style as Dutch license plates
Now the possibilities, of course, became quite endless
Once those got distributed around
It was pretty amazing how people
Really were interested in learning, spreading the knowledge of the case
And the anger they showed towards what was going on
To somebody that really was accused of nothing more than
Some curiosity, some ability to escape the authorities
So it's happy and it's sad
But something that I think we need to do a lot
We need to spread the word around
So there's free Kevin bumper stickers out everywhere now
Got some to Dayton last week
We've gotten some to Amsterdam this week
And of course every 2,600 subscriber got one in the mail
Over the past few days
And it's only the beginning
Of a campaign to end this nightmare
That we've been talking about now since
Gosh, 1995
Think about that, that's when he got caught
He was on the run for a year and a half before that
It just, it just never seems to end
And when this does end
I'm sure something else will pop up to take its place
So, as we've mentioned many times
People over in Holland are pretty fascinated by American culture
By our fascination with corporations
Like we've been talking about
And I think it's just kind of
A perverse curiosity on their part
As far as why
What is it about us that makes us go for these things
I don't understand it either
They ask me these questions
They ask me all kinds of questions every time I go over there
Like, you know, so
Let's get this straight
Every week in a schoolyard somewhere
Some kid shoots his fellow students
And the problem is blamed on TV shows
Yeah, okay, that makes a lot of sense
Have you ever considered maybe not having so many guns around?
No, no, no, you see this is America
We don't think that way
And the rights of a preteen to have a gun
Is something that we do not violate easily
Yeah, so we have a reputation
And you know, I say this in all seriousness
We have a reputation in the rest of the world
As a bunch of crazy lunatics
Who happen to be the most dangerous country in the world
Because we're also the most powerful country in the world
And it's, you know, it's kind of fun to go over there with that in mind
Because you sort of are given a wide berth as you walk down the street
You know, he's an American, nobody knows what he's going to do
But it's also, it's kind of a sobering thing
Because you realize that, yeah, you know, we are kind of like a bus going down a hill out of control with no brakes
And one only has to wonder what that's going to lead to
Well, one thing that I noticed over there
And this was the first time I'd been there in about a year and a half
Everybody's got GSM phones
I mean, it's ridiculous
Everybody's got these things
And most of them seem to be the Ericsson models
You hear the little beeps everywhere
You know what they mean, you know
You know, hey, this person just got an SMS message
You know, he just got one of these electronic mail things
Or news headlines or whatnot
And it's kind of cool
Kind of cool to see everybody using these things
And knowing how to use them
Which is really not what we're doing here
Few people have them, they're too expensive here
And not everybody's using them in the right way
And of course, I brought my phone over there
My phone won't work over there because it's a different type of transmission
This is 1900 megahertz over here
They use 900 megahertz over there
But the little SIM card does work
I was able to take the SIM card out, plug it into somebody else's phone
And instantly I got my local weather forecast for back in New York
And all the New York Times headlines that I had missed
So that was kind of cool
And I was able to call back to the US
And they were able to call me at my regular number
And be forwarded to Holland
I have no idea how much this is going to cost
And that's sort of the fun of the whole thing
You don't know what's going to happen
So in a couple of weeks, I'm sure I'll be raising all kinds of a fuss about the price that I got charged for that
So, everybody also, at the same time, while they're using GSM
They're also cloning GSM SIM cards
Everybody's, I mean, you know, we talked about this a few weeks ago here
But I didn't realize the extent of it over there
I mean, the software is everywhere
Everyone's doing this, everyone's making copies of SIM cards
You know, the thing that we were told was impossible
It's not only possible, but very prevalent over there
It doesn't seem to be really, you know, affecting the service at all
But it definitely would embarrass some of the companies over here
If a lot of people were doing that
And a lot of people will be doing it over here
Because, hey, the software is making it to this country as well
In fact, it's already in this country, people are doing it here as well
And knowledge will be spread around, you can't really stop knowledge
So, that was, that was kind of enlightening to see all that
Some other enlightenment
Some things that happened last week
In fact, things that happened right after the show ended
You must have heard about this
The entire pager network for the United States went down
Actually, not the entire pager network, but a good 90% of it
That's a, that's a significant chunk right there
And, you know, my pager stopped working on Wednesday
And, up until that point
I had no idea, no clue at all
That my pager used a satellite
Because it's, it's local, you know, it only works in New York
What does it need a satellite for?
Well, they do, they use satellites
And, very, very vast majority of the pagers use satellites
So, when that particular satellite got knocked out of orbit
Or just turned in the wrong direction
It affected just about everybody
I'd like to hear from some listeners, when we take phone calls in a couple of minutes
How that might have affected them
You lose a loved one, maybe
Or, you know, lose out on a job opportunity
You know, what's the worst possible thing that happened to somebody
Based on that technical foul-up?
That's what I'd like to know
I was away, so, you know, all I knew was
My pager wasn't working as I left
And when I got back it was
So, I kind of missed out on the whole thing
I'm not even sure my pager's working now, you know
Maybe I should, I should check this
I, I just wind up doing everything when I come in here
Because I have no time to do things otherwise
Let's just see if I can, uh
I'm gonna page myself
Thank you for calling
Okay, let's see if the pagers are back
So far nothing
Uh-oh
Well, uh, we might have a problem
Sometimes it takes a while, you know
Maybe a lot of people are using the network
And sometimes it can take
Ah, here we go
There we are, okay
That's interesting because that's not the number I entered
It duplicated all the numbers
But, um, it got the message across for the most part
The thing is, you know, you don't really know how vulnerable you are
Until something like this happens
We focus on this kind of thing week after week
And nobody here knew
That all it would take would be a single error on the computer
To make a satellite go slightly away out of orbit
Point in the wrong direction
And every single pager in the country virtually is affected
That was, uh, an enlightening experience
So, it's all working again
You know, what I don't understand, though, is
What's wrong with these people?
They had no backup?
No backup whatsoever?
I mean, they must have known
They must have known that this could happen
When they realized they only had one satellite handling all the pager traffic
You know, if that one satellite goes away
Then they have no pager traffic
It's not that hard to figure out
So, uh, maybe they learned their lesson
Maybe they didn't
But, uh, I think consumers certainly did
And speaking of enlightenment, Janet Reno
Who is pretty much the face of enlightenment
Um, well, it's gotta be the face of something
This is her comment on computers
This comes from the, uh, St. Paul Pioneer Planet
You know, the one Clark Kent works for?
Yeah, that one
Attorney General Janet Reno confesses
She's only a few steps beyond Abe Lincoln
When it comes to taking notes
While she hasn't opted for charcoal and a shovel
Reno is using pen and paper to write her high-powered legal notes
At this moment, I do not have a personal relationship with a computer, she said
At a recent press conference
She tried one, but, and here's the quote
Here's the quote
It got so confusing as to what was on the computer
Or what wasn't on the computer
What was on the hard drive
What was on the soft drive
That...
That it made it easier for me just to do my work with pen and pencil
No paper, just pen and pencil
She writes on the desk
Soft drive, yeah
Janet Soft Drive Reno
That's what we're gonna call her from now on
Alright, speaking of government
Boy, uh, we talked about the, uh, the loft thing
For just a couple of minutes last week
You know, that, that, that, that quote
That everybody's been, like, quoting
What's that?
I don't know if it's really a quote
Because, uh, I haven't seen it in context yet
We haven't been successful getting a hold of those people
Because I, I imagine they're, they're in demand after
After things like that got out
Uh, basically, the, um, the, the, the idea was that hackers could take down the entire internet in 30 minutes or less
That's right, a band of seven hackers from Boston told the Senate committee last Tuesday
They could bring down the foundation of the internet in 30 minutes
And, um, one of the people is Mudge, who was on our radio show a few, um, a few months ago, actually
And, you know, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing
I mean, you're there in front of Congress
They can be kind of intimidating
And I guess, you know, things come out that maybe you don't want them to be interpreted in just that way
I can tell you right now, hackers are not going to take down the internet
I mean, I've been getting calls from reporters now for the past, uh, couple of days ever since I got back
Wanting responses to this threat that the loft poses to the internet
Of course, you know, it doesn't take a, um, a rocket scientist to realize that, uh, saying
I can take down the internet in 30 minutes
Is going to be perceived as a threat by some dim-minded, uh, media people
But, there are certainly security problems
That could result in somebody with the proper access
And access to a lot of different things
And knowledge
To achieve a desired effect
I'll be thinking
I'll be winning
And the desire to do something bad
All that wrapped together
And yeah, somebody could cause significant mayhem
And that's never really been an issue
Thing is
Is it a threat from hackers?
The answer is no
Hackers are not going to take down the internet in, uh, 30 minutes
So, no need to panic
But, definite need to increase security
Because there are all kinds of technical problems
All kinds of security issues
That are definitely relevant
And things as stupid as, as, you know, satellites that don't have any backup
Same mentality goes into some aspects of the internet
And that's what you have to take into consideration
Is that, uh, a failure in one way can lead to a failure somewhere else
And it just keeps multiplying until you have a complete breakdown of communication
That's what you have to watch out for
And that's, I think, what the people at the loft were, uh, trying to warn Congress about
Of course, you know, I've been there, I've been in front of Congress
I know that, uh, you say certain things
And it doesn't exactly get interpreted the way you want it to be interpreted
So I think we, we know what the interpretation was meant to be
The boneheads in the media, of course, will get it wrong every time
Probably the best thing to do is just to seek knowledge and play around with systems
And you'll know for yourself what's possible and what isn't possible
I don't think reading the paper really, uh, will give you much in the way of, uh, knowledge as far as that goes
Okay, and finally, before we take some phone calls
212-279-3400
A new software package will be released on Friday
That allows parents to secretly monitor their kids' internet usage
While products have been used to clock net surfing at the office for a couple of years
Some people question whether or not covert supervision is a healthy way of keeping an eye on where kids are going online
The product called Prudence
Tracks all online destinations visited by youthful net surfers
Recording URLs, bookmarks, cache activity, graphics, and cookies
At intervals determined by the user
Prudence can be configured to simply log the information for parental perusal
Or to download and encrypt all graphics, storing them in a hidden file on the user's hard drive for later scrutiny
And for the concerned parent who, uh, doesn't want to wait until the end of the workday to discover that little Ashley or Leo has been dropping into erotic.com, the Aryan nation, or gay.net
Prudence will email logs to a parent at the office
Issuing an update every few minutes
I don't know about you, but that makes me feel so much more secure
I feel so much more secure
Alright, 212-279-3400 is our phone number
And, uh, we're listening, incidentally, to some music I brought back from Holland, the sounds of Rotterdam
It's quite a rave scene in Rotterdam
You thought it was all shipping
No, there's a lot more going on there
I am a core
You know how you're gonna keep me down
I am a core
You know how you're gonna keep me down
I'm a core
And, uh,360
You know how you're going to keep me down
Okay, are we ready?
212-279-3400.
And you know, I have a feeling.
I have a feeling that I won't be saying that number very much longer.
But we'll get into that a little bit later.
Good evening. You're on Off the Hook.
Yes, good afternoon, Emmanuel. I'm sorry, good evening.
Yeah, it is evening, depending on where you're calling from, though.
It could be afternoon, it could be morning.
No, it's definitely evening where I am.
Let me just immediately interrupt you by saying that when I was in Amsterdam,
I was talking to some people, and you know what?
There are listeners over there.
Some guy came up to me and said,
Hey, I listen to your show every week.
And it's the most amazing thing to be in a foreign country
and have people come up to you who can hear the show.
And, of course, that's thanks to all the people who help out
in coding the show on the Internet
and get it out there to those people who otherwise would never hear it.
Yeah, you may speak now.
Oh, okay, thank you.
Sorry about that.
Quick question.
I was just wondering if you know if it's true
that Fodberg and Rebel got married and moved to Hawaii.
No, I don't think that's true.
I don't think that's true.
And, again, it's another instance of how the media botches everything.
So just keep that in mind.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Well, so far, the second caller is more intelligent than the first caller.
Let's see if the third caller can top that.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Yes.
Finally.
Can you give me that number,
which you gave out a couple weeks ago with the substations?
That number?
What, huh?
You call the number.
It tells you, you know, 13th Street.
Oh, you mean to identify your central office.
Are you in New York?
Yes.
Okay, you dial your exchange, followed by 9901.
9901.
Okay, also, on a phone bill question.
Mm-hmm.
Every month, we're going to get this 95-cent surcharge.
What 95 surcharge is this?
Oh, you know what I'm talking about?
I don't know.
Every surcharge that happens catches me by surprise.
There's something.
Hold it.
I've got to get the phone bill here in front of me.
If you have a phone line, they charge you per phone line now.
Yeah, they charge you for every second line.
I only have one phone.
And I get a 95-cent bill.
There's a number you can call up in the recording.
I think you once recalled it up on the air a few weeks ago.
Yeah, I was told.
I'm not sure.
It might be a different surcharge, but I was told that you're...
Oh, here it is.
How are your line charges?
Okay.
For explanation, please call 1-800-532-2021.
Okay, and did you call that number?
Yeah, there's a whole thing that goes on for a couple of minutes.
Now, is this every month I'm going to get this?
If that's what it says, how is it defined again?
What kind of a surcharge?
Carry a line charge.
Okay, well, apparently that's just for your line.
But I was also under the impression that there's a couple of dollars, maybe it's $1.50 every month for every additional line.
And for people who want to avoid that, the way you avoid that is to have different lines in different names.
And, you know, if you're clever, it's not that hard to do.
Right.
And you don't get charged that extra fee.
Yeah, I know.
You have non-jumping numbers, too.
You get a bunch of different numbers.
Well, you don't...
Yeah, you mean hunting.
Hunting numbers, yeah.
Right, right.
There's no way they get rid of this crazy stuff.
Well, they just keep adding these crazy fees.
They just do.
And another fee is going to be added pretty soon, having to do with wiring up the Internet to our nation's schools.
Now, you know, nobody would deny that.
Nobody would deny our little kids the right to have the Internet.
I haven't learned anything before the Internet.
Right.
So, of course, we're going to have to add that to the phone bill, and that'll be a couple more bucks.
The type you played in the beginning from that phony Pepsi commercial?
Yeah.
Is that from the stores, that CD?
Well, you know, that's an interesting thing.
When you question corporations, you find yourself not being carried in various places that the corporations run.
Where can I get that?
What I would do is do a web search for Negative Land.
And there's, I think you can get it from CD Now, which is a website.
CD Now.
I'm pretty sure you can just get it over the net.
If you can't find it in an independent record store.
What I would suggest doing, what part of New York are you in?
Brooklyn.
Brooklyn.
Okay.
There are all kinds of independent record stores.
Go to one of them.
Ask them if they have the new Negative Land record.
And I'm sure they'll, if they haven't heard of it, they'll try at least to get it.
And if you fail as far as that goes, try the web.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
Great show.
Okay.
Take care.
That is interesting.
You know, if nobody questions you, if you walk around the mall with, you know, the emblem
of a company that ensleeves all these people in various parts of the world, but try walking
around with a pro-choice shirt or something like that.
And boy, will you get dirty looks, you know?
It's like, you know, this, this requires thinking.
This requires some sort of, you know, controversial dilemma here.
Or go around with something that, you know, criticizes Nike, and I'm sure you'll get attacked
for that, too.
You know, the corporations have to be protected.
Nobody wants to offend them.
It's, uh, it's just sad.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Go ahead.
I'm on the air?
Yes, you are.
All right.
Um, I have a question.
Um, I don't, I don't sound like this if I'm on the air.
Hello?
Oh, you, trust me.
You're on the air.
Okay, um, my question is, um, concerning the, um, PCS phones and the cellular phones.
Uh-huh.
I just wanted to know the basic difference between the two, if there is one, in fact.
And, um, I've heard, um, young kids talking about how they clone phones, um, through laptop
computers.
I was wondering how that was done.
Right, well, there are programs that capture ESNs and, and, uh, all kinds of, of, of information
that allow you to, to clone the old-fashioned cellular phones, the ones that operate on
800 megahertz.
Right.
Uh, those phones are insecure, they're bulky, they're expensive, and, uh, you know, you can
listen to them just by turning on a scanner, which is illegal, of course, but you can do
it.
Uh, the new PCS phones operate in the 1900 megahertz, uh, and, and there are two different kinds
of those, there's, uh, CDMA, which is Sprint PCS, uh, which, believe me, they have oversold
the area like nobody's business.
Right, because I always hear Sprint PCS.
Yeah, but, uh, I'm saying, they, they can't handle the number of customers they have.
Oh, you can't.
You have to wait to, to make phone calls.
You, most of the time you don't get your phone calls because they just, you know,
there's not enough circuits.
Really?
So they have to expand a bit because they've been overselling so much.
And then there's Omnipoint, which is the GSM provider in the area, and, uh.
GSM and PCS meaning what?
Well, PCS encompasses both CDMA and, and, uh, GSM.
Uh, it stands for personal communication services.
It's basically the, the more intelligent types of, of mobile phones.
You can get things like, you know, uh, email, you can get, uh, news headlines and weather,
and of course, stock quotes.
You can get all that.
Uh, more importantly, you can make phone calls.
And they're, they're, they're cheaper.
They, they tend to be a lot cheaper or they're, they're, in theory, they're supposed to be a
lot cheaper than they really are right now.
Uh, but it's what the, what the whole world is moving towards.
Yeah.
I see a lot of advertisements, um, saying that there's no credit check.
Like you can get, uh.
Well, that's not true.
There is a credit check on, I mean, you can get probably, uh, a pay first plan where there
is no credit check.
But if you get the kind where you want to get a bill, they do a credit check.
Oh, and, um, one question, uh, concerning the, um, coin refund department of, uh, bell
Atlantic, um, previously you would, you could, uh, just make a phone call, right?
Right.
To the operator and she would just bill it to your home phone.
Now you have to go through a whole process, speak into an automated service and you have
to give your name, your address, the phone number, which, uh, of the public phone, which
you're using.
And then sometimes they don't even have a phone number and the amount of, uh, of money
that you lost.
And then you would have to wait probably a month or so to get a measly 25 cents or 50 cents
check in the mail instead of just crediting it to the, to your bill.
Do you know why they're doing that now?
Why?
Uh, that could be a bell Atlantic thing as opposed to a nine X thing.
Really?
I'm not sure because I, I, I haven't, I don't use pay funds anymore, so I don't have to worry
about credit anymore.
Uh, but I would imagine if, if that's the case, you know what, what I suggest people do,
if you're, if you spend an inordinate amount of time getting what is rightfully yours,
you add a little fee because, you know, they add all the fees they want, you know, nobody
ever questions that.
Why can't consumers have their little fees as well?
You know, you made me spend five minutes on the phone going through your voicemail systems,
trying to figure out, you know, how to hit the right key to get the right option.
Right.
You know, $5, that's $5 right there.
You know what I mean?
And sometimes when it says press one, if, uh, I forget what, what it asks.
And then you press one and sometimes there's some kind of feature on the phone, some electronic
feature that says invalid option.
And it just disconnects your phone, your conversation.
So you have to dial operate again.
Uh-huh.
I'm like, what the hell is this?
Yeah.
I didn't understand that at all.
It's like, do they, are they really trying to deter me to, to get my, what, what I'm due?
I mean, come on, I've lost like, who knows how much money on public phones.
You just have to keep, uh, keep at them, you know, because eventually if enough people complain
about what the problems are, something will happen.
Right.
They either stop taking complaints or they might actually fix them.
Right.
But the, the original, uh, manner in which they, uh, took care of that problem was so
much simpler.
The operator would just be like, I'm sorry, and, uh, you, I'll credit it to your phone
bill.
And you would see minus 25 cents, minus 50 cents, minus $1.25 on your bill.
Right.
And that was just so much, uh, easier.
Well, you know, it must be taking them longer to do it this way too.
Really?
They have to print up checks after all.
They have to mail them.
Right, right, right.
So, I mean, I, I really think that they, they're, they're, uh, premises that I guess
this is going to deter people.
You know, you have to spell out, spell your first name, spell your last name, give me your
complete address, including zip code, give me your telephone number, give me the phone
number of the public phone in which you lost your change.
I mean, sometimes, like I said, they don't even have a number.
And it's enough, it's enough to make people want to give up.
And I think that's sort of what, what they're shooting for.
I think that's the mentality, man.
Yeah.
But, you know, my, my advice is you just sort of save the amount of, uh, of, you know,
of, of times into like one major time that you call.
Right.
You know?
Right.
And then just do it once a month or something like that.
Yeah, I think that's the best way.
Um, do you know anything about the Metro cards?
Uh, what about the Metro cards?
Sometimes I, I swear I'm getting, I'm getting jerked.
I'll buy like a $6 prepaid Metro card, which, which means, uh, I have, uh, one to four, right?
Uh-huh.
I have, uh, four fares.
And the other day I'm running, it's like two o'clock in the morning.
I hear my train, I run, and I swipe, and then it tells me I have an insufficient balance.
And I knew I had at least one more fare.
Uh-huh.
I mean, what's going on with, what's up with that?
It's a, it's a bad system because you really have no way of proving it, you know?
Yeah, they tell you hold the card, keep the card, remember the time and date.
I mean, I don't have time to do all that.
Yeah.
And then mail it in.
Uh-huh.
The onus is on the consumer, and that's just not right.
I mean, that sucks.
And one more thing.
Um, is this show pre-recorded today, or?
What kind of a question is that?
You're on live, aren't you?
I mean, that sucks.
I mean.
No, no, no, because I don't hear myself on the air.
Well, you must be listening to the wrong station, then, because you should be on the air.
You definitely should be on the air.
There's no question about that.
What are you hearing?
I'm hearing 99.5.
Yeah, but what's on 99.5?
You definitely should be on the air.
See, that's me.
I just said that.
What are you hearing?
Uh.
That's, that's, that's the delay.
It's the delay from the transmitter to your house.
Yeah, see, that's me.
Oh, I see.
Okay, well, listen, thanks for calling.
We got, we got to go to the next, uh, call.
No, it's not the delay from the transmitter to your house.
It's the, it's the digital delay we have that radio shows do.
That's just the way it works.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Hi, um, I have a question about, uh, the article you printed in the winter issue.
Okay, the winter issue of 2600, I assume you're talking about.
Yeah.
Okay, turn on your radio a little bit, because it's kind of, kind of confusing there.
Um, well, the, the blacklisted issue, blacklisted 411, you know what magazine that is?
Uh-huh.
They printed the same Walmart phone issue that you guys did.
Uh-huh.
Um, do you guys, like, track that or whatever, to make sure it doesn't happen, because...
Well, in that particular case, I, I believe what happened, and again, I, this is just from
memory, the person, without telling us, submitted it to another magazine, and I don't think they
had any way of knowing that we printed it, because they came out with it shortly after
we printed it.
Uh, basically, you know, we count on people to be honest as far as when they, when they
submit things, sometimes it doesn't work out.
Sometimes we get people that, uh, you know, don't follow the rules, and there's really not
much you can do about that.
We had, we had an article a couple of, uh, issues ago where, uh, a lot of people wrote
in to say that it was also available on, uh, on the web.
You know, it was something that, that somebody read a year ago.
There's no way we can know that something is on the web, you know, because we don't read
the entire web.
You know, it happens.
Yeah.
And, and sometimes things get printed that shouldn't be, and when, when it happens, we try to acknowledge
it and encourage people to do better next time.
And also, um, there's sort of a little dispute between me and my friend, but the movie hackers,
I'm, what, what's going on with your name in that movie and that character?
Okay.
Well, tell me what the dispute is.
I'd just like to know what the dispute is first.
Well, he says that you were, like, basically helping out making the movie, and that they
named the character after you because it was supposed to be a model of you, and I think
that it's just a name.
Okay.
Here's the story, all right?
And I want everybody to take note of this, because I'm going to say this once, and I want
it just to be, to be recorded for all time.
And this can be backed up by, by previous issues of this show, where you can listen
to it on the internet and see, uh, the people who put out the film, uh, the author, uh, Raphael
Moreau, uh, wrote this years ago, and, uh, he came to many 2600 meetings, got all kinds
of material by hanging out with the characters there, and, uh, basically we got to know him.
He's, he became kind of a friend to us, and, uh, people helped him out who worked for
2600, and it was kind of like, you know, uh, I guess sort of like a joke, just putting
a name in there.
That's really all it was.
Yeah, you know, I, I gave them some technical advice and some things, uh, most of which they
didn't follow, unfortunately.
Some of the things I would have liked would have been to not have that silly graphical
interface, uh, and also to have, to use real red box tones.
I think that would have driven it across a lot better than those fake things they had.
Uh, using the name was just, you know, it was just a joke.
Uh, nobody is mad at them for using the name.
Nobody got anything from them for using the name.
It was just, you know, kind of like a nod, like they say in, in show business.
And that's it.
That's really all there is to it.
So you really weren't involved in that movie?
I don't, I don't look like that guy.
I don't, I try not to act like that guy.
And, uh, although, you know, he was a lot of fun to hang out with.
He was definitely, uh, you know, one of the characters of the film.
Because my friend was telling me that you were, like, basically helping out making that
movie, telling them kinds of stuff, and I was like, well, how could he let them
use Max?
Uh-huh.
Well, yeah, you see, the reason, and here we go with the corporate stuff again, Mac
donated computers to them, and they got to keep the computers.
So, of course, every time you see a film, you're watching a lot of commercials, and
see how many of them you can pick out.
Oh, yeah, there's Pepsi.
People drink Coke and Pepsi, and they're wearing their Nikes and all that.
You know, watch a professional sports team, and you'll see all the endorsements.
You know, everything is corporate.
They name the stadiums after corporations now.
And that's why a station like this and a show like this is important, because we don't
have any of that.
You know, we just speak our minds.
And you may not always agree with what we have to say, but at least, you know, nobody
is standing over us with a whip saying, you know, you have to mention this company every
few minutes, you know, and collect your check, and all that kind of thing.
Yeah.
So, does that answer your question?
Yes.
Thanks a lot.
All right.
Take care.
Digital focus, SIM, and high voltage.
Okay, all right.
All right, enough shout-outs there.
So, 212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hey.
How are you doing?
I have a couple comments.
First off, it's Apple.
It's not Mac.
Well, okay.
The company's name is Apple.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
Okay.
Okay.
Figured somebody would jump on me right away for that, but go ahead.
Okay.
Second, I have a Nike shirt on me right now, and it says, Made in the USA.
Okay, the shirts are made in the USA.
Now, let me ask you something.
Where did you get the shirt?
A store.
Okay.
All right.
Like JCPenney's or something.
All right.
How much did you pay for it?
I assume you paid for it.
Yeah.
They didn't just give it to you.
Over 20 bucks, I suppose.
Now, my next question is the most important one.
Why do you wear a corporate endorsement like that?
Peer pressure.
Peer pressure.
Peer pressure.
So, it's kind of like smoking, but it's wearing a shirt.
Yeah, something like that.
So, your friends informed you that you would no longer be welcome in their circles unless
you wore that corporate endorsement.
Well, no, but I mean, it's just everybody wears it, and I know some people who say, yeah,
you're sure it's gay because it doesn't say Nike on it.
Uh-huh.
And, of course, gay means bad in this day and age, right?
Yes.
Uh-huh.
Well, now, that's interesting because, you know, if you just try and count the number
of people, I had no idea.
You know, this is sort of pervasive.
You didn't know it was creeping up on you like this until you actually looked for it
and said, how many people are wearing these Nike emblems?
And it just added up, you know, so fast.
It was scary.
I had to, you know, it's scary enough for me to be in a mall in the first place, and
I'm sure it's scary for some of the people in the mall to see me there.
But when all of this was happening, you know, one after another, I was like, you
know, picture, like, the point-of-view camera angle where you're, like, you know,
swimming through a sea of faces, and you're just trying to get out, and everything
becomes blurry, and everything coming towards me was a Nike something or other.
It was scary.
It was really horrible and scary, and I don't ever want to go through that again.
I just don't understand why.
Why is this happening?
I mean, buying shoes is one thing.
People need shoes.
People have to buy shoes.
And, you know, sneakers, you know, I can understand people buying that, but why the
advertisements for the shoes on other parts of your body?
I just don't get it.
The peer pressure, I don't see where, you know, where you have to endorse a company to
be accepted in a social circle.
I don't know.
That's just the way it is.
Are there other companies that you wear?
Well, I mean, there's, like, Adidas, and...
Well, Adidas is the competition of Nike, you know?
Yeah.
Don't your friends criticize you for wearing the competition of that which they want you
to wear to be accepted by them?
Well, some of them.
Uh-huh.
All the soccer geeks wear Adidas, though.
Uh-huh.
The soccer geeks wear Adidas.
Okay.
See, I don't know much about Adidas, and I'm sure someone else is going to come along
and make a film about Adidas that, you know, explains just what goes on in their factories.
But did you know that Nike doesn't make any shoes in the United States?
You do know that, right?
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
Because, according to the film that I saw, nobody wants to make shoes in this country.
Nobody.
Do you believe that?
Uh, sounds about right.
Uh-huh.
Well, I don't know.
And, of course, the people who make the shoes, they make about 30 cents an hour, I think?
Or is it a day?
It's not very much.
Yeah, it's probably a day, because they're in Indonesia and places like that.
Yeah.
And they work in sweatshops.
And, of course, Nike has just raised the minimum age from 14 to 18, and that's after a considerable
amount of pressure.
I think in South America, it's 30 cents a week.
Uh-huh.
30 cents a week.
That's certainly enlightened.
The thing is, you know, a lot of people justify this.
I've been talking to a bunch of people about this over the past few days, actually, and
the justifications you get are really kind of funny.
You know, it's like, well, you know, somebody else would do it if they didn't do it.
You know, somebody else would, you know, would open up a factory there.
It's just, it's their way of life.
You know, it's their way of life, and it's how they've grown accustomed to
living, and, you know, who are we to, you know, take away from their culture.
It becomes, you know, like, we're supporting their culture by paying them 30 cents a day
or whatever to make these shoes.
And it's just, it's the most roundabout logic, you know, I think I've ever seen.
It's like, you know, you have to prove that all the other manufacturers aren't doing the
same thing before you can say these people are guilty of it, you know.
Okay, Nike is guilty of this, but all the other ones are guilty, too, so I'm going to buy
Nike because they're just like everybody else.
You know?
No, it's, it's, it's, it's distorted logic.
Sorry?
Oh, nothing.
Uh-huh.
But, um, and...
This has got nothing to do with telecommunications or computers, by the way, but I think, well,
actually it does, because it has to do with the corporate mentality and the mega mergers
that are going on and, you know, the whole Microsoft industry that we're seeing.
I have a question about a mega merger.
Okay, go ahead.
Uh, in Minnesota, St. Paul, Pioneer Press land.
Yeah.
Um, the cable company...
Is that where you're calling from?
Uh, yeah.
Oh.
Yeah.
Are you the person who sent us that Pioneer Press thing?
Yeah, I'm code free.
Oh, thank you very much.
Oh, you're welcome.
We actually, we found it on the webpage, but, uh, it's an excellent quote.
Oh, thanks.
Um...
You go to the Mall of America, right?
Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
That's quite a place out there.
Biggest mall in America.
Yeah.
Well, my parents are like...
Uh-huh.
They don't like that.
Okay.
So, anyway.
Anyway.
Go ahead.
Um, U.S. West has always owned the four, or the cable companies out here.
Yeah.
And they merged them all into one company called Media One.
Media One, yeah.
And now they claim to be, like, installing broadband, which is digital, voice, and cable, all in one line.
And they're advertising.
I was in Dayton, and I saw a Media One advertisement that was saying broadband, you know, broadband this, broadband that.
And they're everywhere.
Uh-huh.
These trucks, I see them every day installing stuff.
I asked a couple people, what's the deal?
And they're like, oh, we have money, and we can spend it on all this hype broadband stuff.
Uh-huh.
Um, but it's still, right now, it's still part of U.S. West, and I'm just wondering, how can one company control what you see, what you hear, what you say, and your data?
Well, I mean, that's what we're moving towards.
We're seeing, you know, SBC taking over, Ameritech, you know, and it's just merging into one company doing all these things again.
You know, we break them up, they just come right back together again.
And when they come back together, they're even bigger and more powerful.
Uh-huh.
You know, you have these cities, I don't know what the situation is in St. Paul, but you have cities where the majority of all the stations are owned by the same people, same corporations.
Uh-huh.
And there's, you know, and you put on a little radio station of your own, and all of a sudden, you're the threat, you know, you're the threat to society, because someone's going to hear an opposing view, you know.
Of course, you have to have opposing views, otherwise there's no society. It's as simple as that.
Just U.S. West.
Just what?
Just U.S. West.
Yeah, U.S. West.
I'm controlling you.
Yeah, until they get taken over by SBC or whatever.
Quite possible.
All right, listen, thanks very much for calling. Raised some good points.
Yeah, okay, thanks.
By the way, quickly, someone on IRC on the channel Off the Hook wants to know what kind of shoes you wear.
You know, that's an interesting question. I don't wear Nikes, all right?
I'll say that right now. I don't want to say what kind of shoe, because I don't want to give an endorsement.
But as far as I know, and, you know, I didn't think about this when I bought them, admittedly.
I'll think in the future. I don't think they're made in one of those places by slave labor. I don't think.
I'm going to look into it, though. And if they are, I certainly won't get them again.
Okay.
All right?
Thanks.
Take care.
I think people need to do that. They need to think a little more when they buy things.
You know, you don't have to do without. You just have to think a little bit and buy something that, you know,
isn't quite as evil and nasty and takes advantage of people in bad ways.
Okay, let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Okay, well, that was a fun phone call, but let's try to have even more fun with this one.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Oh, sorry about that.
That's okay.
Nice real audio delay there.
Uh-huh. It's not that bad, actually.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Where are you calling from?
I'm calling from Pennsylvania.
Uh-huh.
I just wanted to talk about phone companies for a little bit real quick.
Okay.
I had a couple interesting experiences today.
Okay.
Mostly with Sprint.
And actually, I should tell you about GTE first.
Well, you only have about a minute.
I have a minute. Don't talk fast.
Yeah, go ahead.
GTE was making an announcement that they were going to have ADSL all over the place, right?
Yeah, yeah. What happened?
So, anyway, I call in and kind of ask when it's going to be in this area.
Uh-huh.
And the lady on the other end didn't even know what ADSL was.
Uh-huh.
In fact, I thought it was ISDN or something like that.
Uh-huh.
I tried to explain to her it was for residential customers.
She wouldn't believe me, and she insisted that I call the business office in the morning.
So, that didn't work out too good.
Anyway, with Sprint, we tried to order an analog lease line today, and they didn't know what they were.
So, it seemed to be something that was going around.
Anyway, they gave me about ten different phone numbers to call, all of them long distance,
and never, ever got through to anybody that knew what a lease line was.
But you had fun. You met people, and you played with voice processing units.
Yes, it was great.
And I've heard, you know, I've went through just about every switching system in the world now.
They actually were transferring me, so it was great, because I was through probably about seven different switches.
And you can hang out in a bar after work and talk about it with other people, and be social as a result.
It was wonderful. You know, I thank the phone company. It's, you know, my kudos to them.
Well, I hope things work out better.
Yes, but can we really expect that from all these nice conglomations we have out there?
Yeah, we'll see.
Okay, listen, thanks very much for calling.
Hey, no problem.
All right, and you know what? That's our last phone call.
It's really our last phone call, because we're not going to be here.
Well, okay, it's kind of not really not going to be here, but we're not going to be here, you know, in this area anymore.
Yes, the whole time, the whole time we've done this radio show, since the very first one in October of 1988,
we've been in this neighborhood, 8th Avenue and 35th Street.
And as of next week, we are moving.
We are moving.
I don't know if I should tell people exactly where we're moving to,
but we're moving to an area which is kind of a strange place for this station to be.
And maybe I'll just tell you that next week.
Yeah, we'll tell you where we're going to be next week.
It's kind of a strange place.
I've got to find out exactly where it is.
Maybe I got the address wrong, but I went there and there was a cemetery,
so I think maybe they were trying to send me a message or I just got it wrong.
But hopefully next week we'll be on the air from the new location,
and there won't be any technical problems.
But, you know, there probably will be, and that's sort of what we have the most fun with.
And unless something really weird happens, we'll probably have a different phone number,
because it's not really close to here.
So, oh, I'll tell you.
I'll tell you, because it's just so ironic.
Wall Street.
Can you believe that?
Can you believe WBAI is going to be in the middle of the financial district?
Watch out, megacorporations, because the voice of BAI is going to be right in the middle.
We're going to be radiating our voices right through your stock transactions.
And maybe that will give you some pause.
Until then, though, we'll see what happens.
Stay awake.
Send us an email if you see anything interesting worth reporting on.
OTH at 2600.com.
And we'll see you again next week for another edition of Off the Hook.
Until then, Manuel Goldstein, have a good night.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving.
Now I can't make a call.
It could be yet much worse.
But if they could, they would.