La presencia militar estadounidense
que se cumplen ahora el 25 de julio.
El date que, 100 años ago,
brought in the Stars and Stripes
in Puerto Rico
with an accompanying promise
of democracy
and equal rights
for our people.
When 100 years have passed by
and the United States faces
the fact that it is
the last colonial power
in the world,
certain people in the United States
start asking themselves questions
about what should happen
regarding Puerto Rico.
July 25th marks the 100th anniversary
of the U.S. invasion of Puerto Rico.
WBAI will commemorate
this historic event
with special programming
beginning at 10.30 a.m.
on Saturday, July 25th.
Tune in for a whole series of specials,
including the documentary
Puerto Rico,
Reflections on the Oldest Colony,
plus live coverage of the U.N. rally
against U.S. colonialism in Puerto Rico.
So tune in all day July 25th
beginning at 10.30 a.m.
only on WBAI 99.5 FM.
And this is Radio Station WBAI
in New York,
as you just heard.
The time is just about 8 o'clock
on a Tuesday night,
which means once again,
yes, it's time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I lifted up the wall
I cut myself off shaving
Now I can't make a cough
It could be yet much worse
But if they could, they would
But will you bomb
But I best expect the worst
I hope the fun is good
But don't you know
So
Gracias por ver el video
¡Suscríbete al canal!
Because of the use of real names in this movie, Mr. Mitnick's case could be severely hurt by the fictionalizing of his story.
I have kept up with this case over the last two years, and I am ashamed that my country would treat a citizen this way.
Please, if there is anything you can do, I ask for your help.
This is a very good move to make, to actually write to people.
Write your own personal letter.
That does get attention.
It gets a lot more attention than the form letters.
You know, if you get bombarded with a thousand pieces of mail that say the exact same thing,
you're not going to take it as seriously as something that looks sincere that was actually written by a real person.
Of course, the odds would actually get it to the person you want to send it to.
That's kind of iffy right there.
But it'll get to somebody, and maybe they'll say,
hey, this is something that this person that they're sending it to should see.
You know, if enough people do that, eventually they're going to hear about it.
And certainly the press will hear about it.
And that's because of the tension we really want to get.
We want to reach the American public and let them know about this whole case.
And if you don't know about this case at all, stay tuned because we'll update everybody on just what exactly it's all about.
Dear Off the Hook, people are mystified by hackers as evidenced by the glut of press, good and bad, that they have gotten in the past year or so.
Now, when hackers speak, people like to listen due to the fact that they think that they are doing something that falls into the gray area of the established laws.
In other words, what I'm trying to say is maybe there could be a project within the community and with help from outside sources
to raise money and create an ad campaign in newspapers, magazines, radio, and even TV,
telling people about the mistreatment of Kevin Mitnick at the hands of our benevolent government
and what they can do to help stop the violation of a fellow human's civil rights.
The ad campaign might also lead towards change in the production of the movie Takedown.
I also think that if we as a group cannot affect changes in the way the events and characters in the story are going to be portrayed,
we can be there at every theater that we can possibly get to distributing information about the real story.
I've noticed that in talking about this with other hackers and freakers,
that there is a general apathy towards situations that don't directly involve them.
This is sad and can hurt the cause because if there is not a united front,
there will be holes that the public can push through and still not be made aware of the truth.
The whole Kevin Mitnick tragedy is only going to happen to more people who cross the wrong people if we don't do something about it now.
I think that Kevin should be freed, but not made an example of what can happen to hackers if they get caught,
which is what he's been for the last three and a half almost years.
Sorry to be so long, but I had to get it off my chest.
Please, if you have the time, of course, respond.
Tell me how I can get involved in a manner more than just putting stickers everywhere that many people have no clue about and joining mailing lists.
Well, a lot of what you say is very true, and we do have to think of ways of being more productive.
There's no way, though, we're going to reach everybody.
We're going to get everybody to agree with us.
There's no way the entire hacking community is going to speak in one voice, nor should it,
because the whole nature of the hacking community is that we're a bunch of individuals,
each with our own opinion on various things.
So not everybody is going to agree in the first place.
The point is, for those of us who do agree to be unified and to speak in a fairly strong voice,
strong enough so people can hear us, not strong enough so that people think we're being shrill and paranoid and annoying,
I mean, I think while you say that people have no clue when you throw the stickers up in various places,
true, they have no clue at first, but when they see two Free Kevin stickers,
when they see 10, 20, 100, they're going to say, who the hell is Kevin?
And they're going to keep saying it until somebody answers them.
And if enough of us are out there, somebody is going to answer them properly.
And if they're on the web and they see a Free Kevin sticker on the web,
they're going to click on it and find out all about this.
Right now we're on a 50,000-watt radio station in the middle of New York City
being broadcast all over the Internet throughout the world.
So we're getting the word out in various ways.
We have magazines, newspapers that are printing stories about this.
Word is getting out. Word will continue to get out.
And the voices will get ever louder until something is done.
Okay, one more piece of mail that's really not related.
It's just kind of a suggestion.
It's kind of a funny suggestion, I guess.
When you have lists of off-the-hook episodes,
why don't you put in the times through each episode that certain things happen?
Like, 032, Emanuel discusses hacking issues.
121, Emanuel talks to the Free Kevin campaign.
Then people can just go to the parts they want.
I think it would increase the usage of the off-the-hook page.
You know, some people out there seem to think we have nothing but time on our hands
to do all these things.
People want us to translate it into Braille,
to have it read onto cassettes,
and to index it,
and do all kinds of things.
But, you know, we just don't have the time.
Someone wants us to type out everything we say
so that what I'm saying right now,
I'd have to type out at some point and provide that.
I mean, it's great.
It's a great idea.
If you want to do it, go for it.
But we just don't have the time, you know.
We're kind of caught up in a campaign here,
among other things,
among a million other things.
Okay.
Well, the Free Kevin campaign is progressing rather nicely.
This past weekend, we did quite a bit of work.
In fact, I decided to embark on a little project.
I went out throughout the neighborhood,
throughout downtown,
doing some research on the whole
Kevin Mitnick Shimomura chain of events.
And what I found was interesting.
They were very helpful in all the bookstores I went to.
They told me of a book called Takedown,
which, of course, we've been talking about quite a bit.
Everyone knows about this book.
Everybody has this book.
It's everywhere.
Every bookstore you go to, you can find it.
But I found out through the nice person
at one of the bookstores that there was another book.
That's right.
There was another book called The Fugitive Game,
which we've talked about quite a bit on this show.
In fact, we've interviewed the author of that book,
John Lippman.
But, you know, it's very hard to find that book.
I had to go all over the place.
I wore out a pair of shoes,
walking around the neighborhood,
trying to find a copy of this book.
And finally, finally,
after stopping in, I don't know how many bookstores,
I found a copy of The Fugitive Game.
And you might ask, why am I buying it?
Because I already have the book.
I have it in hardcover and softcover.
I wanted to buy this for our good friend, Skeet Ulrich.
Yeah, Skeet Ulrich lives somewhere in Manhattan.
And we don't know exactly where.
We know he's around here someplace.
We figure what we do is buy a copy of the book
and deliver it to him.
Just hand it to him.
Or leave it with his doorman or whatever and say,
Skeet, read this book.
Read this book and learn about the person
that you're going to be portraying in this film.
You're playing Kevin Mitnick in the film version of Takedown.
You should know something about who he really is.
It's unlikely that you'll be able to talk to him
since he's not allowed to have any visitors.
Since it's unlikely you'll see him
since he's not allowed any bail.
And it's unlikely you'll really get a true sense of the story
since he won't have a trial before this film is made.
This is the best shot you have of finding out
what really happened.
Or at least another side of the story.
That's what we wanted to do.
We wanted to hand the book to him.
Well, as you can see or hear,
I still have the book,
so that means I didn't give it to him
because he wasn't at the apartment building
he was supposed to be living in.
Yeah, apparently he moved or something.
So we went searching for him
and we're quite unsuccessful in our travels.
Searched through an entire list of everybody
in the building that we thought he was in
and either he's in a fake name
or he's somewhere else.
So if anybody knows the whereabouts of Skeet O'Reich,
please contact us here at Off The Hook
or you can mail us at OTH at 2600.com
and we'll get this book to him.
It's important because filming starts
in less than three weeks.
We've got to do something.
We've got to get to these people
to make sure this story is not portrayed
the way they have it written.
It's shocking.
I wish I could show everybody the script,
but I'd probably get in a lot of trouble
if I did that because it is copywritten material
and I'm not even supposed to have it.
But let's suffice to say that
they portray Kevin Mitnick as a violent criminal
racist, somebody who constantly cheats and steals.
And when you consider the poor guy
is sitting in prison,
has been in there for three and a half years
without a trial,
without the chance to talk to people,
he's not able to defend himself
against this kind of thing.
And if you do some research,
you'll find that he never caused damage
to a computer system.
He never stole anything.
He lived two years on the run
in utter misery and was finally caught
and put in even more misery.
I think we're talking about victimization here.
A lot of people have made a lot of money
off of this story
and Kevin has yet to see a penny
and I don't think he ever will.
We have some updated information.
We have some contact numbers,
names, things like that.
And we have word of
the first meeting
as we plan a demonstration
next week here in New York City
at the Miramax headquarters.
We're hoping to have also demonstrations
at the Los Angeles headquarters
in the Miramax.
For that, you need to contact us
via email,
OTH at 2600.com
as we don't have the information yet
as to how that's going to be happening.
Here, however,
if you're interested in participating
in a demonstration,
we're having a meeting this Friday
at the Citicorp Center,
same place that we have meetings
for 2600 once a month.
This meeting will take place
at 6pm
at the Citicorp Center
this Friday
and same place
in the lobby
and we'll discuss
just what it is we want to do
and when we want to do it
and next week,
next week at this time
on this radio show,
we'll announce what we decided
and what will actually be happening.
It will happen next week sometime.
That much is guaranteed.
Probably won't be Monday or Tuesday
since there's no way
we could announce that
since we're on Tuesday nights.
So it'll be Wednesday, Thursday,
or Friday
or maybe all three.
Who knows?
We'll see about that.
If you're interested
in writing to them,
their address is
Miramax Films,
7966 Beverly Boulevard,
Los Angeles, California,
90048.
I should point out
that's a new address.
There's another address
that's floating around
that's incorrect
and not at that address anymore.
They're at
7966 Beverly Boulevard,
Los Angeles, California,
90048.
Their telephone number
out there is
area code
213-951-4200
and their fax number
213-951-4315.
Now Miramax also has
an office here
in New York City
and that's located
at 375 Greenwich Street
on the third floor.
If you want to write to them,
it's 375 Greenwich Street,
third floor,
New York, New York,
10013.
Their phone number
is 212-941-3800.
212-941-3800.
And their fax number
is 212-941-3949.
And if you want publicity
for Miramax,
they can be reached
at 212-625-2222.
212-625-2222
is publicity for Miramax.
Remember,
when you talk with these people,
it's very important
to make your points,
to be polite,
to not be annoying,
but to be strong
in your resolve.
And if you get somebody
that's simply taking a message,
make sure they get the message.
Because that's the only way
it's going to get out there.
People like you.
People listening
to this show right now.
As far as updated information,
the word about the film
is spreading.
More articles showing up
on the net.
Nothing really
in major newspapers
as of yet.
We're hoping
to get the word out.
There is something
that is making the rounds
now on the net.
The Free Kevin Mitnick
Action Alert,
number one,
was released on July 5, 1998.
It's really a good job.
It's a document
that describes
the entire
chain of events
and what is happening
right now.
Basically,
I'll read you
the way it starts.
Did you have an enjoyable
4th of July weekend?
Did you hang out
by the barbecue,
beer in hand,
and eat too many burgers
and or tofu dogs?
Well, whatever you did,
it was probably more enjoyable
than Kevin Mitnick's
4th of July.
Kevin spent his
in the same place
that he had the last few,
the Metropolitan Detention Center
in Los Angeles.
And it's a full
documentation
of all the things
that happened.
as well as
places that you can
connect to
to find out
more information
and to pursue
the facts
on your own.
Here's an interesting section.
One of the most disturbing
aspects of Kevin Mitnick's case
is the lack of support
for his plight
from net activists.
The same people
who could probably
quote moving passages
from their dog-eared copies
of the hacker crackdown
seem to become
very quiet
when it comes
to Kevin's case.
Not only have groups
like EFF
not lent
direct support
to Kevin
but they have done
little else
to show
any support
for him.
It's time for
internet activists
to take a stand.
It's time for people
to realize
that for phrases
like cyber rights
now to have any meaning
they must apply
to Kevin Mitnick
as well as
every other netizen.
Even if we assume
that the worst accusations
about Kevin's hacking
are true
it still
becomes quickly clear
that his case
has been blown
way out of proportion.
Kevin is the victim
of a campaign
to hype his story
a campaign
which has made
millions of dollars
for those responsible.
Obviously
net activist organizations
have a limited amount
of time
and must focus
their resources
they cannot respond
to every potential crisis
and no reasonable person
would expect them to.
They have other
more practical concerns
as well
like the possibility
of alienating potential
donors and sponsors
that's reality.
What's also reality
is that Kevin's case
is sure to be a landmark
in the field
of computer crime
and that activists
should be getting involved
to make sure
that bad precedents
aren't set
which could impact us all.
Kevin is obviously
being singled out
to act as an example
for other hackers
and the message
is pretty clear so far
that the government
can do as it pleases
when it comes to hackers
civil rights be damned.
If that's the case
then how safe
is anyone?
And again
this document
is being posted
to news groups
mailing lists
all over the internet
and if you'd like
to help us
spread it around
please contact us
OTH
at 2600.com
if you're interested
in joining
the mailing list
yourself
simply send the email
to majordomo
at 2600.com
that's spelled
M-A-J-O-R-D-O-M-O
at 2600.com
and in the body
of your message
simply write
subscribe
Mitnick
M-I-T-N-I-C-K
and you'll be
subscribed
to the mailing list
where we're discussing
just what it is
we're going to be doing
and what kind of response
we'll be having
to this film
and to the various
other events
that are taking place.
It's going to be
a very interesting summer
as we follow
these people
around the country
they start filming
in North Carolina
about three weeks
from now
maybe even
a little less
and we're going
to be there
every step of the way
following this
reporting back
to people
and updating
everybody
it's just
what it is
that's going on.
Alright our phone
number is
212-209-2900
people want to call in
ask us
some questions
and maybe
share some information
as to things
we might not have
heard about
regarding this case
and regarding other things
regarding the hacking
world in general
new technology
the MetroCard
and all that other
fun stuff out there
let's take phone calls
good evening
you're on the air
hi Emmanuel
who is this
I don't recognize
this voice
oh it's me
you know what I
think I should do
I've never heard
this voice before
oh
it's a new caller
I'm just trying
to make a world
for myself
where I could be happy
but I guess
it's not going to work
I just want to make
one thing
maybe we should
have a protest
at the jail
in Los Angeles
about Kevin Midnick
I'll meet you there
but anyway
I was in Michigan
and I was trying
to find the 2600
meeting in Ohio
you were in Michigan
and you were trying
to find the meeting
in Ohio
no no no
I went to Ohio
I was on my way
to Michigan
I went to the 2600
I tried to get
to the 2600 meeting
in Cincinnati
no Cleveland Ohio
but it says
it's at the Cafe Arabica
but in Cincinnati
there's like
three locations
I don't think
there is a Cincinnati
meeting anymore
what you might want
to do is check
the webpage
but I know
at least
no I did
I did
it said Cleveland Ohio
the Cafe
oh Cleveland
no there was a meeting
in Cleveland
but I think
Cincinnati got bumped
yeah but it
doesn't say an address
and then when I went
to Ann Arbor Michigan
it's at Michigan State
University
but nobody can find
this Galleria thing
I was there
I found it
I found it
in Ann Arbor
so it is definitely
there
oh but nobody
could find it
they should
specify like
addresses
and you know
like they do here
like it's
in New York City
yeah but I mean
that was very easy
to find
it's right there
near the university
it's very easy
to find
but the one
the one in Ohio
I couldn't find
either
ok that I can't
I don't know
I've never been there
now what about
the thing
when I was in
the hotel
in the motel
in any motel
6 you can make
free phone calls
by dialing
having the operator
dial the number
for you
yeah that's been
a problem
with motel 6
now for ages
they don't seem
to get it
I've even told
them
I've said
look it's very
easy to make
phone calls
you should fix it
and they're like
oh yeah whatever
pay your bill
and then
ok
they don't pay
you don't pay
it's like
you can only call
collect and all that
you can only call
collect
oh a third number
like in other words
you can only make
those type of phone calls
oh so you can't
make phone calls
directly from them
then you're saying
maybe they did fix it
you can just make
phone calls
if it's collect
calling card
a third number
you can't dial 9
and then 1
an area code number
you have to dial 0
so you have to have
a billing number
what's the big deal
no no no
but the thing is
is that you could
say to the operator
bill it to the phone
I'm calling from
oh I see
ok
you see
so you can make
phone calls
pretty much
directly from there
right but not
by not paying for it
is what I'm
trying to get at
well that's yeah
that's definitely
a unique concept
for you to be getting at
but thanks so much
for calling
for the updates
and your quest
for the ultimate
free phone call
212-279
oh no no no
212-209-2900
yeah
I wonder who got
our old phone number
good evening
you're on off the hook
well hello
it's like a reunion
first rebel then me
this is a voice
I haven't heard
in a long time
but you know
it's not like a reunion
because rebels here
every damn week
oh I don't know
what I just sort of
lost track
I got into
calling up c-span
there I've sort of
hacked their system
in the last two months
I must have been on
like a dozen times
oh yeah
you abandoned us
for c-span
you abandoned us
for a national network
I was on with good old
Amy Goodman this morning
from BAI
really
yeah
she was like being
interviewed and stuff
I don't know if she
recognized my voice
but anyway
what's on your mind
okay let me
let me just focus
I have a dry mouth
it seems like
I've been you know
listening to the show
on and off
for I don't know
it seems like
over a decade
and there seems to be
this theme
running through it
it's like
every year
it's like
let's get our friend
A B or C
out of jail
I mean
you know
first it was
Fiber
then Bernie
now Kevin Mitnick
I mean
is there a sort of
I may be naive
but I mean
is there some sort of
aspect or component
about the hacker community
that sort of
you know
lends itself
to people
sort of screwing up
and getting in trouble
is there some sort of
psychological
characteristic
sort of a death wish
almost
of people
in the community
who are
bright
neurotic
Jewish or Asian
and sort of
want to sabotage
their lives
under a guise
of exploration
well I think
there's also
a tendency
in any government
to first lock up
the smartest people
the people who are
about to discover
interesting things
the people who explore
and don't really
respect authority
all that much
I think that's
what we're seeing
as well
I also think
we're seeing
a government
that's very afraid
because they don't
have a handle
on the technology
that these kids
have
that hackers
in general have
and that's why
you're seeing
an overreaction
like this
they don't really
know what it is
that we're capable of
they're panicking
and when you panic
you strike out
in various ways
you guys don't
know yourselves
I mean
you know
well nobody knows
everything
that's a very important thing
I'm just curious
you know
you guys are all
old school
and like you see
now and then
you interview
these teenagers
who are getting
in trouble
do you sort of
feel threatened
or do you say
to yourself
I must be getting older
look at these kids
who are doing stuff
that I couldn't imagine
when I was their age
you know
is there like
a generation gap
or a jealousy
among generations
with hackers
there is a generation gap
among people
who don't listen
to each other
and the thing
in the hacker community
is that
you still have people
that don't listen
to each other
but you also have
sort of a bond
that is blind
to things like age
sex
whatever
and things
have not changed
very much
over the years
people are playing
with different kinds
of computers now
they're playing
with different kinds
of technology
but basically
the hacking mentality
has not changed
there's a lot more
people now
that claim to be hackers
that want to be hackers
because they see
the films
they read the books
and they get drawn
into it in that way
but you know
the percentage of people
who really are
the percentage of people
who don't want
the answers given to them
but want to learn
how to get the answers
it's still about
the same I think
alright
the last question
sort of to play
devil's advocate
and I really haven't
thought about
this whole issue
with Miramax
and the films
I haven't
arrived at some
conclusion
but how would you
respond to the
whole argument
of you know
of their artistic
first amendment
freedom of expression
I mean
you say Kevin Mitnick's
constitutional rights
have been violated
but does sort of
violating an artistic
creative
how would you feel
how would you feel
how would you feel
if you woke up
and you saw
a film being made
that used your
real name
and your real life
situation
and made you do
all these horrible
things that you
never ever would
have done
but isn't he a
public figure
well you know
that's the interesting
thing yeah
he's a public figure
but you know
why he's a public
figure because
the people that
are making the film
wrote a book about him
so what would you
like to achieve
do you want to
totally prevent them
from doing it
or would you
ideally I guess
you want them
to change the film
to be more
sympathetic
towards Kevin
but let's say
they don't
because of
the bottom line
or whatever
would you like
would you try
and sabotage
him
there's two things
first of all
what we want
we want them
to get the story
right
we want them
not to be able
to say things
you know
Kevin Mitnick
bash you
we don't want
that kind of
image being
portrayed
which is just
an absolute
fabrication
and a bunch
of lies
and everybody
knows it
what we do
want is to
show the
consequences
of what
happened
when Kevin
Mitnick got
captured
the fact that
he's been in
jail now
for over
three years
without a trial
without bail
without a single
visitor
you know
that's part
of the story
that's a very
important part
of the story
you can't
ignore it
if you're
going to tell
a true story
about somebody
then tell
the true story
don't just
you know
paint it
so that somebody
looks good
and somebody
looks bad
it's not a
good versus
evil thing
it's more
complex than
that
now if
they don't
listen
and I fully
expect them
not to
then we
simply have
to make
sure that
every bit
of publicity
that this
film gets
is used
to get
our message
out as well
for everybody
that sees
takedown
we want them
to also
to see
the words
free Kevin
and to
know the
suffering
that he's
gone through
in the years
that he's
been in prison
Emmanuel
how about
if they just
take a disclaimer
on the beginning
or end
saying it's like
a fictionalized
version
how many people
stay for the
credits of films
well movie
both
yeah I know
and they're the
people that
already know
the truth
anyway
so that
little disclaimer
isn't going
to do much
not for me
anyway
what is it
that Shakespeare
said
is a
sorry
where we
weave
when we
try to
hack
or something
I don't know
but anyway
you guys
take care
where's fiber
tonight
I do not know
but Netweasel
has something
to say
to you
who
Netweasel
is here
I've got
a little
response
hang on
Netweasel
Netweasel
but he's
on the wrong
microphone
go ahead
I got a little
response
for your
first part
about hackers
having a
death wish
I understand
but I mean
everyone
there's always
bad consequences
no matter what
I mean
are you saying
now that
because
high school
jocks have
a tendency
to get drunk
and say
play mailbox
baseball
that you know
that we should
characterize
everyone as
them having
a death wish
I mean
you're
characterized
a hole
by the
minimum
not really
I mean
that's a
faulty
rhetorical
logic
argument
well then
you're talking
about
let's say
your other
point
about them
being able
to talk
about Kevin
let's say
you're in a
supermarket
one day
and you decide
that you want
a Tylenol
so you open
up the Tylenol
thing
you get arrested
for say
taking a Tylenol
out of the
package of Tylenol
and you're
arrested for theft
well then
some New York
Times reporter
comes out
and says
that you're
well that you
not only
stole the
Tylenol
but you
held up
the supermarket
shot the
clerk
and laced
the rest
of the
Tylenol
with arsenic
well no
first they
have to
make you
a public
figure
well that's
what they're
doing
they have
to write
a book
about you
stealing
a Tylenol
first
then you
become a
public
figure
then they
can do
a lot
other stuff
but I would
sue
when you're
sitting in
prison with
no money
it's hard
to sue
people
that's the
problem
I understand
I mean
it's a shame
what can I
say
that's a shame
it's New
York
it can get
really overwhelming
you know
I know
absolutely
the thing is
not to get
overwhelmed
not to put
too many
burdens on
your shoulders
sure but I
wish you
well and I
liked your
escapade with
the metro
card
were there
any cops
in the
station
didn't see
a single
cop
the clerk
seemed to
know what
we were
doing
but I
think he
knew it
was legal
so
every 18
minutes
you can use
it again
before that
happens
it says
just used
so you
can't use
it until
18 minutes
go by
it doesn't
tell you
how many
minutes are
left
you have
to time
that
yourself
and you've
yet to
crack the
main computer
or discover
how it works
and all that
stuff
well there are
people that have
cloned cards
we know that
but as far as
actually explaining
the whole system
they just cloned
the cow too
did you see
in the times
they cloned
the cow
in Japan
that's just
wonderful
like the sheep
a lot better
anyway listen
great talking
to you guys
I wanted to say
hello to
the bar
fans who's
listening
and my
summer replacement
therapist
Faye
who's
listening
take care
bye
thanks
but I'm
sure that
in the movie
they're going
to add a
part where
Kevin
Mitnick
hacks the
metro card
and you
know
that's going
to be
the new
addition
to the
film
yeah
they'll add
that
and maybe
you know
he's responsible
for the
space shuttle
crash
Kevin's actually
going to clone
the cow
yeah
they'll just
take some
dramatic
license
I don't like
when people
hide behind
things like
that
like oh
yeah
that's
dramatic
license
to do
this
to ruin
somebody's
life
you can't
get away
with that
imagine
someone
brought this
parallel up
imagine if
Bill Gates
for instance
he's a public
figure
what if you
made a film
about Bill
Gates
where you
show him
lying
and conniving
and stealing
and hitting
people
and doing
all kinds
of horrible
things
in his
rise
to the
top
do you
think
maybe
if this
became
a film
that people
went out
and saw
yeah
I know
people are
nodding
this is
like the
real
story
no
if you
made
it
and it
was
real
even
if it
was
real
do you
think
that
he wouldn't
do something
about it
of course
he'd be
all over
you
you'd have
all kinds
of lawyers
following
around
for the
rest
of your
life
you know
people do
take action
against this
kind of
thing
but
when the
person
is a
helpless
victim
who is
in prison
it's very
hard for
them to
do
anything
that's
why
we have
to do
something
those of
us
who still
have our
freedom
and are
able to
walk
around
the
streets
and make
phone
calls
and things
like
that
we're
hello
yes go
ahead
yeah
am I
on the
air
you're
on the
air
right
now
all right
hey
Emmanuel
how's it
going
okay
where are
you calling
from
I'm calling
from
Washington
D.C.
okay
what's
happening
down there
in the
land
of laws
the land
of laws
that don't
mean
anything
yeah
well
I have
a couple
questions
for you
okay
first of
all
what's
with the
music
what's
with the
music
all the
music
you were
playing
at the
beginning
of the
show
yeah
that was
Holland
actually
sounded
like
German
polka
to us
yeah
well
it was
sort of
like
polka
but with
a techno
beat
and I
always said
the two
can
merge
well
I liked
it pretty
good
but I
just
was
wondering
what was
up
with
all
that
music
you know
normally
we live
for music
and sometimes
we die
for music
yeah
well
I
listen
for the
for the
content
here
the music
was good
keep it
going
as long
as the music
doesn't get
in the way
you know
that's the
important thing
yeah
question
here
is
if we
ever get
Kevin
out of
this
are you
going to
give him
a job
at 2600
well gee
I mean
he could
do just
about
anything
but
well
with
the
situation
many
people
might
not
want
him
I
think
he
probably
wouldn't
want
anything
to do
with
hackers
for a while
but
you know
if
corporate
America
is smart
they would
hire people
like Kevin
look what
happened
to the
Israeli
hacker
analyzer
guy
you know
he was
accused
of hacking
all kinds
of things
in this
country
and what
happens
the Israelis
give him
a job
immediately
you know
and he's
he's looked
upon as
almost a
hero
Netanyahu
even said
he was
really good
you know
in this
country
he'd be
put in
prison
for a
long
long
time
yeah
that's
very
true
exactly
like
what
what's
happening
with
Kevin
there's
no
information
on a
date
for the
North
Carolina
filming
of
takedown
we're
trying
to find
out
if
you hear
anything
please
let us
know
but
so far
we've
been
unsuccessful
finding out
the exact
date
that things
start
or even
where
they're
going to
be
filming
now
I'd
always
assumed
that they
would be
filming
at the
apartment
complex
where he
got captured
but I
talked to the
people who
own those
buildings
and they
say there's
been no
inquiry
and if
there was
they wouldn't
give permission
to film
there
so I
don't know
exactly
I know
North Carolina
is sort
of a
mecca
for
filmmaking
it's kind
of like
the Hollywood
of the
East
I bet
that's
a surprise
to a lot
of people
but it's
true
so they
might just
be filming
in North
Carolina
because it's
cheap
it might
not have
anything to do
with the
actual story
taking place
there
okay well
I'm on the
mailing list
waiting for
some info
on that
because I'm
planning on
heading down
there
okay
to tell
them what's
going on
this isn't
right
we'll figure
it'll be
probably within
three weeks
okay
so we'll be
posting information
on that mailing
list and announcing
it here as we
learn more
well I will be
waiting for that
okay well
thanks for
calling
and Wink
says to say
hi to you
and IRC
okay great
so hi Wink
all right
all right
thanks a lot
Emmanuel
take care
bye bye
bye
212-209-2900
as we broadcast
throughout the
internet and on
99.5 FM in
New York City
good evening
you're on
Off the Hook
okay
here's a
here's a
solution
I mean here's
a suggestion
if you're gonna
speak on the
radio
don't make
noises like
that because
they make
me nervous
I'm sorry
because that
might have
been the
guy's real
voice
you know
you just
picked up
on me
now
yeah I
picked up
on you
now
this is
Tommy
you know
we talked
about the
benefit
yes you know
you didn't
come to the
meeting did you
I did come
to the meeting
but I must
have missed
you I was
outside smoking
and stuff you
know where all
the kids were
hanging out so
I missed that
on meeting you
you should come
inside to the
meeting next time
because that's
where the meeting
takes place
I'll definitely
be there Friday
and we'll discuss
it
okay yeah
Friday at 6
yes
I did talk to
one of the
producers where I
work I'm not
going to mention
where I work
tonight just so
I don't ruin it
okay but uh
one of the
producers I
discussed about
having a round
table show
with some
politicians
and some of
the people who
are possibly
making the
movie etc etc
okay and I
said we should
ask them why
hackers are being
penalized more
than real criminals
because the subway
cloners you know
cloning the metro
cards they get
jail terms but
people jump in the
turnstiles get
$50 fines right
you know it's
like me carrying
a gun and
having 15 bullets
and being charged
with 15 murders
good point good
point and those
people that draw
the house analogies
which I really
hate because
computer hacking
is nothing like
breaking into
somebody's house
but if you do
break into
somebody's house
you don't wind
up in prison for
years you wind
up maybe in prison
for a little while
if that much you
might you get a
fine but you
certainly don't
get anything like
the penalty to
get for logging
into a computer
system exactly
and you get your
trial right away
and if you go to
Rikers you only
get a short
prison sentence
because you know
they're all packed
so I said why
do people think
of the computer
world a real
world or an
extension of our
real world when
people look at
virtual reality as
not part of our
world I said
people should know
the difference
between computers
and real life
I think a lot
of it has to do
with just not
understanding and
being afraid of
that which you
don't understand
exactly and you
know the producer
looked at me
going wow that
is so interesting
I really think
this would be a
good show
especially since
other you know
channels don't do
a show like this
but you do know
producers tend to
react that way to
just about anything
they have this like
plastic look in
their faces
wow it's a great
idea I'm going to
take it off and
of course it
doesn't even
register sometimes
no no I'm good
friends with her
so she said it
wasn't her bag but
she was going to
bring it to the
other producers now
okay so I thought
that was good and
then we discussed
some other things
about other channels
doing this and she
goes why don't they
do it I said you
know why you got
big shows like
CNET and tv.com
and all that
they have such
big sponsors
exactly I said
that's the problem
they don't have
major kids watching
it they don't have
politicians showing
up normally it's
the major sponsors
like Microsoft and
they don't want to
see a show about
hacking now look at
the people that are
getting the word out
WBAI no commercials
no sponsors 2600 no
no advertisements no
sponsors those are
the only types of
places where you can
get something like
this out to the
people exactly and
since where I work
it's such a good
demographic because
it's younger and
also we have you
know just not music
but movies and stuff
like that it's going
to be much more
popular for our type
of scene so I told
her about she's like
oh that's great you
know so hopefully
we'll work on that
what we'll do is
we'll discuss the
excuse me the
details I'll email
you tonight right
after we get off the
phone here and then
hopefully we can
talk I did email you
my phone number the
other day but you
never got back to
me okay things
have been crazy but
we'll definitely talk
on Friday yeah we'll
definitely do that we'll
hook up and we'll
discuss more of the
details I'm going to
press her again about
it and see who else we
can go through for this
type of publicity but
definitely we will go
down there to Miramax
wherever they're
filming this show and
we'll definitely pick
it okay we need to
make people aware that
we're out there and
we're watching
all right I'll talk to
you soon Emmanuel
thanks for calling
and what you have to
remember is that you
know we are the
audience we are the
people that see these
films that you know
buy the newspapers that
watch television so
listen to us listen to
our concerns try to get
the facts right that's
all we're trying to say
here 212-209-2900 good
evening you're on off
the hook okay the other
thing I should point out
is that if you hold the
phone next to the radio
you'll get noises like
that and that gets me
nervous too you don't want
to get me nervous good
evening you're on the
air hello how you
doing good how are you
okay you want to turn
down your radio yeah
yeah hi man how you
doing how you doing I'm
calling from New York
uh-huh in New York
there's a brand new
local uh phone company
called community
telephone I've heard of
them I don't know
anything about them I
was wondering if you
have any comments about
them I got a letter in
the mail from them okay
and they're supposed to
have much uh like 10%
cheaper than 9x okay and
I was wondering if you
have any comments about
them um I've heard of
companies like this that
offer the same exact
service except it's it's
less um you know the
jury's still out on that
I mean somebody has to
use them they basically
advertise they say you
can keep your number you
don't have to change
phone numbers and you
can you know pay this
amount less get the same
good service and I think
that's that's a that's a
fatal flaw in their
argument right there get
the same good service well
if you're getting good
service then why would
you want to change in the
first place so people
are going to be a little
wary about that well
they're going to change
because they're going to
pay less money isn't
yeah that's true but
uh but they've already
acknowledged that it's
good service they they
can't really guarantee it's
going to be as good but
they can guarantee it's
going to be cheaper so
people are going to be
usually when you want to
get somebody to switch you
say the service sucks or
it's terrible it's something
that you want to switch
from not that yeah it's
great service but you'll
get the same great service
at last you know I don't
know if that works but
somebody's going to have
to take the plunge and
try this out but I think
they bundle a long
distance and local thing
together they only only
give local they give
local and long distance
really okay that I don't
know about that that could
get kind of complicated
well it's about time this
competition in the local
oh absolutely because in
long distance there's like
hundreds of companies and
local there's only one you
know there's only nine x
right well about one now
ever since they emerged
right there's only only one
one major one one that all
of us can get so that is
starting to change took long
enough but uh let's hope we
get somewhere great I think
it's about time they start
competition thanks if you
switch there let us know
what happens great thanks a lot
take care we have time for a
couple more phone calls it's
off the hook two on two
two zero nine two nine
hundred good evening you're
on the air hello how you
doing yeah hi I was
wondering um why don't we
just hold a protest in
washington dc where would you
hold it um well like
farrakhan had a million man
march why don't we do the
same thing except maybe we'll
call the million hacker march
and we'll protest not only the
movie but the whole
the next story and also
various other topics that
are sensitive to and in the
technological aspect for
example the shutting down of
rate free radio mutiny and
free radio berkeley yeah that's
something I really like to
tie in there are a lot of
issues there are a lot of
issues that that are
interesting that we should
get involved in I just don't
know if we can get a million
hackers together it'd be great
if we could and I don't know
what we do to the city that
we went to but boy I'll be
yeah that'd be something
right there right now though
I think we should focus on the
targets and the targets are
not in dc the targets are in
new york and los angeles those
are the people making the
film and they will be in
north carolina those are the
people who need to hear the
message and hopefully through
that more people will hear
yeah I also think that also
instead of just posting up all
the free kevin stickers people
giving out the um a paper that
said all the facts about the
kevin mitnick trial right so I
think it'll be actually better
and cheaper to post those
papers everywhere instead of
the free kevin stickers because
otherwise you won't be just
posting your message out you'll
be posting the facts so
people oh yeah absolutely no
you're talking about flyers in
fact somebody handed me a
flyer at the 2600 meeting and
I don't know who gave it to me
but it's a great flyer we want
to make more of them so uh
hopefully that person will get
in touch with us one way or
another but um yeah I mean the
stickers serve one purpose the
stickers get your attention you
can't stick a flyer in the back
of a car you can't stick a flyer
on a on a stop sign although
we're not saying people should
put stickers on stop signs but
it's you know I've seen it
happen and it's just you know
if that happens it's better to
put a sticker there in a flyer
uh the flyers are what you hand
to people you know you had a
demonstration you're on a
street corner you hand flyers
that's what people are supposed
to read and that's more of a you
know one-on-one contact
situation yeah okay all right
okay bye thanks for calling
good evening you're on off the
hook hello Emmanuel yes how you
doing very good this is Bob
calling out on Long Island
hi Bob uh of course I always
have to start off by saying
free Kevin all right I've been
trying to connect to the uh
2600 uh website you must be
getting a lot of hits a lot of
people must be listening all over
the world because uh can't get
through really okay but that's
all right I'm on the radio um a
couple things I don't know what
we can do about movies like this
that are just complete falsehoods
you know I try to explain what I
know about the Kevin Mitnick story
and people generally think I'm
crazy like he's guilty of
something I guess that's the
opinion that uh a lot of uh lay
people might might think um one
point I'd like to make is that uh
we using just computers using the
internet you know everybody these
days being sold computers getting
online and I try to get my family
involved and uh you know just
sending emails of photos baby
photos across the internet you know
it's a great little thing to do
um ironically say someone goes to
the public library and gets out a
book on pipe bombs okay brings it to
school they get in trouble if they
get it off the internet and bring it
to school next thing you know they're
part of a terrorist organization and
the FBI is swooping down and
confiscating their equipment and
they're lucky if they don't land in
jails as well as they don't know how
to differentiate between curiosity and
criminality you know it's amazing
phenomena phenomenon is uh if you use a
computer and download something off
the internet um you may not even be
committing any crime at all but you
get the stigma associated with it and
the paranoia in the government seems to
be tremendous I heard this first-hand
story from uh my parents who were well
in their 70s they had a another friend
whose kid had just downloaded
something something just like that just
as a goof you know it's so easy to
access anything you want yeah and um
they got investigated what people
don't realize is that these are kids
doing what kids have always done it's
just the uh you know technology has
changed a little bit the toys have
changed listen sir we're out of time
but I want to thank you for calling
bringing up those points okay free
Kevin and I'll have to how do I get a
free Kevin bumper sticker uh well if you
show up on Friday we'll bring a whole
bunch of them there that's one way we
have them at the meetings and also if
you want to make a donation to the
Kevin Mitnick defense fund basically we
have a minimum of 10 that people uh
donate for and they cost a dollar each
and you get it for 2600 does like does
Kevin actually get his email or what
does that get printed out his email gets
printed out and sent to him yes
excellent all right okay I'll follow you
every week all right thanks take care
take care and that's going to do it for
us we're out of time we'll be back
again next week with uh updates on this
situation hopefully uh um a confirmed
method of protesting and where we're
going to be doing it and where things
stand thanks everybody for all the
support if you want to email us oth at
2600.com if you want to email me
personally emmanuel emmanuel at 2600.com
you can also write to us here at off
the hook care of wbai 120 wall street
new york new york 1005 until next week
emmanuel goldstein see you again good
the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it
off the wall i cut myself while shaving
now i can't make a cough it couldn't get
much worse but if they could they would
but they live on for the best expect the
worst i hope that thunder's good but
Gracias por ver el video.
On Thursday, July 16th at 6 p.m., Dr. Van Sertema will speak and present his new book at a book party at the Martin Luther King Jr. Labor Center, 310 West 43rd Street between 8th and 9th Avenues in Manhattan.
He'll be joined in conversation with WBAI's Eutrice Leed.
And, of course, you are all invited.
For more information, please call 212-330-8277.
That's 212-330-8277.
1998 is the 100th year of American intervention in Puerto Rico.
100 years under U.S. sovereignty.
100 years of American military presence that are now on the 25th of July.
The date that 100 years ago brought in the Stars and Stripes in Puerto Rico with an accompanying promise of democracy and equal rights for our people.