The Constitutional Suspension of a Legally Elected Parliament by the Morley Bankrupt Leadership of the Western Democracies, press 3.
For all of the above, press 4.
You have selected option 4, all of the above.
All of our unprincipled collaborators with Western business interests are busy right now.
Please wait until the regime has had time to consolidate its power and try your call again.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bondi Libom for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bondi Libom!
Well, gee whiz, I'm standing here in Oklahoma and I don't know what's going on.
I can't hear anybody.
If anybody is over there at the studio, please talk.
I can hear you.
Ah, okay.
Phil, are you there?
I am here.
Okay.
This is great.
We do a show.
We have absolutely no cues whatsoever as to how we're going to do this.
All right.
Okay.
So Phil is there in New York and I'm standing here on a street in the middle of Oklahoma.
Where in Oklahoma are you?
You know, that's a damn good question.
Does anybody know the name of this town?
Anybody?
Anybody?
You people live here.
Don't you know the way you live?
I'm getting some hostile glances.
We'll try and sort that out.
I think it's called Shelbyville or something.
I'm not sure, though.
Are they nice people out there?
No, they're hateful, spiteful people.
Well, actually, most of the people we've met are nice.
It's just this particular gas station is rather nasty.
We've had some very interesting experiences.
In case you don't know, this is Emmanuel Goldstein.
The program is off the hook where we talk about all kinds of high-tech issues and things that have been going on in the world of hackers.
And what we're doing right now is we're heading cross-country.
We left on Friday.
Heading cross-country for the Free Kevin campaign, talking to people along the way, documenting various things.
Hold on.
We have a name on the town.
We're in Kellyville.
I was very close.
Not Shelbyville, Kellyville.
Kellyville.
Yeah.
So we headed out on Friday, went all the way through New Jersey into Pennsylvania, and on the way to where we are right now, which, again, is Oklahoma.
We're on our way to Las Vegas, California, other places like that.
We've met all kinds of nice people.
We've also met an inordinate amount of cops of all sorts, local, state, federal, yeah, federal cops, today religious cops even.
I'll get to that in just a little bit.
Security guards of all sorts, you know, interesting people, but with one goal in mind, and that is to move us out as quickly as possible.
And that's what's been pretty much pushing us cross-country, are the security guards.
We've seen quite a change in weather over the past couple of days, went through some horrible thunderstorms in Kansas,
and now we're in the heat of Oklahoma as we head into where things are really deadly across the desert.
So let me ask you, Phil, for an update as to things that are going on in New York and the Kevin Mitnick saga.
Okay, well, let me first say a couple things about Kevin.
His attorney was on MSNBC's chat room on Thursday of last week, and he was able to answer some questions that people had.
There were some good questions, and then there were some not-so-good questions, but I think he did a decent job fielding them for, you know, a chat room online.
Is there a log of that available someplace?
Yes, sir, is you can go to www.chat.msnbc.com, and right there, there's a link that has transcripts, and I guess any current schedule, if someone's going to be on again, they have everything listed right there.
But some of the interesting things that was asked, I'll read off a couple of these.
On the maybe fourth question down, since your client is clearly a flight risk, what do you think, why do you think he should be granted bail?
First off, he's clearly not a flight risk.
He was born and raised in San Fernando Valley, and his family and friends are all here.
He doesn't have a pot of gold, which will allow him to live under the palm tree or anything like Bermuda in the desert.
So, in other words, he has no place to go.
Secondly, assuming that he can be characterized as a flight risk under the law that's not sufficient to detain someone without bail when their crime is not in the list of very serious crimes.
I don't know, I'm starting to think that they didn't transcribe this right, because there's a lot of questions, and they're cut off halfway, so if anybody reads it and can decipher some of these things, please let us know.
Another one of the questions was asked, we would like to know if your guest hacked himself into the government files concerning the contact with alien life and UFOs.
And Donald Randolph's response was, the answer is, of course, who hasn't?
Yeah, it's funny, that's come up.
A lot of people we've talked to, the alien files are what people seem to be interested in.
Yeah, they think that Kevin obviously got to see government cover-ups and maybe, you know, aliens, and maybe that's why they're keeping him away so he can't tell people about the aliens that he saw online or through his computer.
The other question was asked by myself, I happened to get into the chat room before they promptly told me to leave.
Why would they tell you to leave?
Well, I kept asking the same question, because they were taking all these other questions, I'm like, this is a pretty important question, and they didn't answer me.
What was the question?
Well, my question was, when does he plan to move this to the Supreme Court?
And, you know, I asked a few times, and I guess they got tired of me asking, kick me out, but then I got to go back in, and then he said, we hope to file shortly.
So, hopefully, that'll happen.
I think it's about time that they move this up to a higher level.
Well, you know, I guess, in a sense, we've been doing a similar type of a thing, having a full room where people of all different sorts, some of them are unwilling, because we hand things out to people as they walk by.
We talked to a preacher.
We're trying to get into kind of a religious issue, I guess.
Are we going to get God on our side?
Well, I don't know.
I'm working on it.
I'm trying to get him aboard, but we'll just have to see on that.
But what we discovered was a preacher that had an 18-wheeler, you know, just a big truck, as the church, and it was parked in a truck stop.
And so we figured, hey, that's good enough for us.
We went in and we talked to the guy for a while.
And, of course, he was outraged that Kevin would be treated this way, as most people are.
I don't know if he's going to talk about it in Sunday Sermon or anything like that, but certainly something that he's aware of now.
We also, in Pittsburgh, decided to pay the folks at CERTA visit, CERTA being a computer emergency response team.
They're the people that you call when your computer gets broken into, and they usually decide not to tell anybody about it and, you know, keep all the exploits to themselves and not tell anyone how to fix their computers, just report on the break-in itself.
But we weren't going to talk about any of that.
All we wanted to do was let them know about Kevin and hopefully get them on board as well.
Unfortunately, we went there on a Saturday.
I don't know if they were there.
The building was closed.
We talked to a security guard through the intercom, and he said he'd track down somebody for us.
Unfortunately, the person he tracked down for us was a policeman.
With backup, too, I might point out, in a few minutes, and talked to us.
He was friendly, very friendly guy, but very imposing, too.
I'd say about 300 pounds of imposing stature there.
And he basically told us that we couldn't stay there, and we had to go.
And all we wanted to do, really, was just let them know about the Kevin thing and get them to sign the...
It's not really a petition.
It's a sheet of paper that would kind of get people to...
I don't know if you have a copy of it with you.
Not with me.
You know, I do.
We have a white piece of paper.
I'll have it in a moment.
We'll send somebody to the car to get it.
But it's basically something that states very simply what the problems are with this case.
And what we're trying to do is get people like, you know, the head of various computer companies,
the head of various law enforcement agencies, all kinds of people to just sign this
so that the judge can see that many different people are concerned by it and aware of the situation.
Okay, I have a copy of it right here.
Basically, it reads...
It's addressed to the United States District Judge Marianne Feltzer.
Forgive me if I'm pronouncing that wrong.
But it's spelled very strangely.
Yeah, I think it's pronounced Feltzer.
Feltzer.
Well, why in God's name, didn't she spell it?
Well, never mind.
No point getting into that right now.
I believe the continued imprisonment of Kevin Mitnick constitutes a violation of human rights,
regardless of whether or not he committed the crimes of which he is accused.
Being in prison for three and a half years without a trial, with no bail,
and with no visitors other than lawyers and immediate family is quite simply too much.
Mr. Mitnick is not accused of a violent crime, of stealing money or merchandise,
or of causing malicious damage.
Whether or not I believe he is guilty of the crimes he is accused of is unnoticed.
Unimportant, because the amount of time he has been imprisoned far exceeds any just penalty.
I ask you to consider the above and to do what you can to put an end to the suffering caused by this continued imprisonment.
Thank you.
And then we have a space for them to sign.
Now, I don't see anything in this statement that the head of Microsoft, the head of Apple Computers,
the head of anything really, would object to.
You know, Motorola, companies that have accused Kevin of breaking into their systems.
I'd like to know, are they unwilling to sign this piece of paper that says this basic statement?
And if so, why?
Do they want him to be in prison for 10 years, 20 years?
Do they want him to be executed?
What exactly is it that they want?
Because three and a half years have gone by.
He's been in prison the whole time.
If that's not punishment for anything that they're accusing him of,
I'd like to know what punishment they want.
I think that's what, I think a lot of people agree with that.
You know, they always say, oh, you know, but Kevin did something wrong.
You know, he had to have, otherwise he wouldn't be in jail in the first place.
But, you know, most people agree after that.
Oh, you know, how long should he be and what should he have to, what amount of money should he have to pay?
I read a pretty good analogy the other day that said, you know, if someone stole a Bic pen from, you know, the supermarket,
should they have to pay $4 million in fees and go to prison for 10 years for the amount of money that, you know, the company that developed the pen?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think everybody would see the logic in that.
Yeah, they'd be like, you know, he just stole a 57-cent pen.
It's not a big deal.
Why should he have to go to prison and, you know, for $4 million worth of damage?
Well, we saw a few years ago when Craig Neidorf was accused of almost bringing down the nation by publishing the Emergency 911 document
in an issue of Frack Magazine, that the document was worth $79,449 and some odd cents.
And the Electronic Frontier Foundation actually looked into this and discovered how they itemized that.
And they had put in salaries for secretaries.
They had put in entire computer systems, who knows what else, rent for the building, college educations.
I don't know.
But they basically put a lot of stuff in there, and it was a document.
That's all this was, was a document.
And it was later found out that you could buy this document for about $13.
So the Neidorf case is a shining example of how the numbers that they come up with are grossly misreported
and believed almost without question by authority figures and by the general public, unfortunately.
That's why people like Kevin Mitnick go to prison and don't get out for long periods of time.
Yeah, you know, $80 million is, you know, the amount of, you know, damage that they say he's responsible for.
But what is that damage?
The damage is installing security on computer systems.
The damage is over time that people had to spend to figure out how their computer systems worked in the first place.
But that $80 million does not include any kind of damage to their system, any kind of theft, no money, no selling of anything.
And it's very important to make those distinctions because people hear things like that.
And they say, oh, well, if he stole $80 million, I guess he should be in jail for three and a half years.
But that's not what happened. That's not even close to what happened.
It's basically, we're talking about somebody who copied a couple of files, if even that.
Well, and, you know, another thing is these companies that were, you know, affected by this $80 million worth of damage or whatever,
I don't recall Motorola going out of business or, you know, suffering great losses or, you know, having to file for bankruptcy.
I don't recall that ever happening.
Well, you know, Phil, I'd like to hear from some Motorola people out there because I know they're out there.
I know they're listening.
I'd like to know, did Motorola suffer?
Did they suffer from this?
Was it in the annual report?
Was it in the stockholders' report that Kevin Mitnick caused all this damage?
I mean, you guys must know about this, right?
If he is such a big threat, if he's done so much damage, he must be the number one topic of discussion at the water cooler.
So let's hear about it.
You know, a matter of fact, on, you know, www.kevinmitnick.com, we actually put a request out there for people to get us the annual reports from all these companies.
There's about five or six.
And if you want to check out the website, you know, we're still looking for those.
And, you know, I've personally looked about, gosh, maybe about five or six 10Ks from all the different companies and maybe four or five annual reports.
And it doesn't list the losses.
Like, it's not itemized.
Like, if someone broke in, it doesn't list it like that at all.
But to me, all these companies are making profits, and their losses, there's nothing there that says, you know, hacker broke in, you know, $80 million worth of damage, $10 million.
I think that would be like a, you know, front page, you know, we lost.
Because, of course, a company would love to have all the money that they can and not have to give it to the stockholders.
To me, that just, you know, if I was a company, I wouldn't want to give out all my money to my stockholders.
Well, the story did make front page, obviously, as you all know, thanks to John Markoff.
But not for the reasons that you're describing, for basically reasons of, I guess, profit-making is the only way to really describe it.
People put stories on the front page, and all of a sudden they're writing books and signing movie deals and making millions of dollars,
while the person they're writing about gets nothing and sits in prison.
And we wonder why he was sent there in the first place.
It's really sad.
But as far as the takedown movie, I've heard a couple of rumors, a couple of new bits of information.
Last week on the show, we were talking about the second and third revisions of the script.
Well, it now appears that there's a fourth revision.
Really?
Which I have not seen a copy of.
I don't know anybody who has a copy of this, and so this is mostly speculation.
But I've heard that, once again, a lot of things have been changed.
Anything positive?
I don't know.
Without seeing it, it's really impossible to tell.
I mean, last week we talked about some of the film.
I hadn't read the whole thing.
I've read it all now.
I've read the entire third revision of it.
And it's better.
It moves in a better way.
It says some things that are fairly good, but there are still major, major problems with it,
not the least of which is Kevin Mitnick bashing Schimler Moore over the head with a garbage can.
I don't know why they want that scene in there so much,
but almost every other scene has been affected in some way.
That's the one scene that hasn't.
I think they're doing it out of spite.
They need that.
They need him to be bashed over the head.
And, you know, I could see needing Schimler Moore to be bashed over the head with a garbage can.
I can see people wanting that, but let's not make Kevin do it,
because Kevin is the one person that probably wouldn't do that.
He's not violent.
He's never done anything like that.
And he would have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.
And I think by putting this in the film, Kevin does have a lot to lose.
Well, that certainly leaves a lasting impression with any prospective jurors for the future,
that, you know, he's a violent guy and, you know, he shouldn't be let out and all these horrible things.
Is the super virus still in there, like the virus that's going to take down the Air Force One and Wall Street?
You know, I don't remember, because I've read these things in fairly quick succession.
I'm not sure if they took the virus out, but one thing that they did put in was in the meeting,
again, the meeting which never happened later on in the film.
There's actually two meetings, one with the bashing of the head and this other one in prison,
where Schimler Moore actually visits Kevin, which is something he would never do,
because he's too much of an egotist to do that.
And he actually visits him in the prison and says, gee, I'm sorry it had to be like this.
Yeah, right, yeah, sorry it had to be like this, but never mind that.
Then Kevin says, look, you know, why aren't you in prison?
And this is actually good.
Why aren't you in prison?
You've been involved in some pretty shady things yourself.
You've been involved with the NSA making these viruses and these programs that will defeat firewalls
and all these other things that could be used to hurt people and to invade their privacy.
How come I'm the one in prison?
And that's actually a very good point.
It's something a lot of people have asked.
But then they ruin the whole thing by having Schimler Moore pull out a piece of paper from his jacket,
which is a $29,000 credit card bill.
And he says, that's why you're in prison, because you're not a victim.
You're just a bad guy.
You know, that's just beautiful Hollywood tripe there, but it's not what happened.
Kevin has never even been accused of any kind of credit card fraud, and that's so below him,
it's not even worth mentioning.
But they have that as a major part of the film.
Of course, you know, Kevin says in the film, that wasn't me.
But after seeing various antics of him in the film, I don't think very many people would believe that.
Yeah. And one thing, and I was talking to Kevin about this only a day or so ago,
but one thing that a lot of people have forgotten is that this is about breaking into Schimler Moore's machine,
which is something Kevin maintains to this day he did not do.
And the whole premise of the film is that he did do this.
So right away, you have somebody doing something that is the basis for them being in prison in the first place.
And in the film, it's very clear-cut, but in real life, it's not clear-cut at all.
And if he didn't do this, then why is he in prison?
Why was he pursued like this?
And who did it?
Well, I mean, I've heard lots of different things.
I've heard, you know, that that supposed break-in was to justify, you know, Schimler Moore's pursuit.
It was totally fictitious or, you know, something along those lines.
Just like nowadays you hear on the news with all these big budgets that are coming out to stop computer hackers.
Well, you know, sometimes I feel that these supposed break-ins are over-exaggerated
or the damage is so exaggerated that, you know, people get jobs, you know, government jobs, government funding, government budgets.
Same thing for, you know, Schimler Moore's computer.
I don't know how, I don't know too much about the specifics about when his computer was broken into
or how it was, but I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to, especially if Kevin maintains he didn't do it,
too difficult to make it seem like, you know, someone did break into it.
Mm-hmm.
So, I don't know.
Judging from the people that knew about this when it was happening,
and there were a lot of people who knew every file in Schimler Moore's directory,
I would say that it's very likely that somebody else was involved.
Yeah.
And I would also say that if you look at it, and if you look at all these people that knew about these things,
and the fact that they have not been questioned by the federal authorities,
and I'm not saying they really should be, I'm just saying, look at this, they haven't been questioned,
it must not be that big a deal, you know, it must not be something that's that much of a priority.
What seemed to be a priority was the FBI not being embarrassed by having Kevin Mitnick constantly elude them.
Now, ask yourself, well, okay, he eluded the FBI, he's a fugitive, you know, why shouldn't he go to prison?
You know, oh, that's fine and good, but you have to understand,
when somebody has been put in prison in solitary confinement for eight months,
which is what happened to Kevin Mitnick when he got in trouble in 1989,
that was the case that first brought him to national attention,
eight months in solitary confinement, and just read John Lippman's book,
The Fugitive Game, for confirmation of that,
and for some really amazing dialogue with Kevin Mitnick about what that was like.
Just to sum it up very quickly, just go into your bathroom and turn on the light and just stay there
and see how long you can hold out for it.
That's what being in solitary confinement is like.
Imagine doing that for eight months.
That's what he had to go through.
So when you find out that the federal authorities are after you again,
to some ridiculous probation violation,
which took place maybe three or four days before your probation was up,
and that they want to lock you up again, tell me, what would you do?
What would you do?
How many people would just voluntarily walk in and say,
okay, here I am, even though I know that it's crap what you're going to charge me with,
I'm willingly going to turn myself in.
He was afraid anybody would be, and he took off.
And I think it makes perfect sense when you abuse somebody that way.
I mean, how many torture victims will go back to the people who tortured them for further questioning?
You probably want to get away from there, and that is what he was trying to do.
And the only thing I faulted him with was not getting far enough away,
not going overseas and going to a place where he would never be bothered again.
Unfortunately, they want to use him as some sort of a billboard to send messages to every hacker in the world.
And I really think, judging from what we're seeing around the country and in New York and on the Internet,
that that message is just not working, not the message they want to get across.
People are very angry about this, and they're being inspired by the message that we're getting out.
The media isn't interested in this now.
Miramax obviously is very interested in this,
and we hear that constantly from people on the inside there,
that they are very concerned with the hacker issue, of course, to an illogical degree,
where they think that we're responsible for every machine that breaks down on their lot.
Yeah.
I've heard that as well, that their fax machine doesn't work, and they're all...
It just goes to territory, I guess.
But, yeah, the message is out there, and it's not going to stop.
It's not going to...
We're not just going to back off and say,
Oh, well, we give up now.
So every day we get more and more people in on this.
Every day the message gets a little bit louder.
Every day the average American, and I don't mean that in a bad way,
because average Americans are really cool,
the average American, the person who has no real interest in computers,
gets interested in this.
I think they get worried that he's a U.S. citizen.
Above all else, he's a U.S. citizen, and this can happen to anybody.
He's not an international spy.
This isn't a third-world country.
This is the United States of America,
and this could happen, you know,
if you get pulled over and you're speeding
and they put you in jail for three years,
you know, it's on the same proportions.
So I'm sure it worries them as well.
In your travels, after you tell people about this,
what is their response?
Well, usually they're a bit skeptical at first,
but they look at the sheet of paper that we give them
and they say,
Well, this is true.
This is an outrage.
This can't be allowed to happen.
And basically our response to that is,
Well, you know, we certainly believe it's true,
but by all means, investigate it further yourself.
Yeah.
And check into it.
And everybody that we've given something to
seems interested in doing that.
It's something that really strikes a nerve when you see this.
We ask people,
Look, this is a computer hacker.
You know, if it's somebody who broke into a computer system,
Okay, fine.
What kind of punishment do you think they should get?
They didn't cause any damage.
They didn't steal anything or do anything malicious.
And nobody thinks,
but we've seen anyway,
I'm sure there's a few people out there that would say this,
but we haven't found them yet.
But nobody thinks that three and a half years is anywhere near the penalty.
You know, it's way too much.
Yeah.
I was going to say,
and when you show it to people,
I'm sure I run into that.
They don't believe it.
It sounds like a fictitious story.
Like, there's no way that this is possible.
Yeah.
And that's where the skepticism comes from.
People think it's not true.
And they want to believe it's not true.
Then there are the hardened people that have been through it already.
And they say,
Oh, of course, it's part of the big conspiracy.
Yeah.
Which, you know,
then you have to listen to them for about 20 minutes.
But there's a lot of people being woken up to this.
And the people that we don't get to out here,
they're hearing about it in other ways.
A lot of people saw pieces in the media and magazines on television.
A lot of people are going to see more pieces
and see the stickers and the websites
and all the other things that are out there.
Have you seen any stickers in your travel?
Free Kevin?
I haven't seen any myself.
I didn't really expect to.
But we've given a few out.
Uh-huh.
So I imagine we'll start seeing some
on some cars, various places.
I know when we get to Vegas,
where a couple of thousand hackers
are going to be converging to DEF CON this weekend,
I'm sure we'll see quite a few there.
Maybe in some places that they're not supposed to be.
But when we continue on to California,
I know there'll be more people there as well
that will be educated on this.
But by all means, we still need people to be involved,
to help out, to spread news,
and to educate other people that have not yet heard about this.
I get a lot of mail from people who say their parents are worried
that they're getting involved with this evil crowd
and they don't want free Kevin stickers on their cars.
But you've just got to explain it to them.
You've got to show them the firsthand evidence.
Take them on a tour of the website.
Let them decide for themselves.
And a lot of cases, I've also gotten mail from parents saying,
wow, you're really waking me up here.
I didn't think my 12-year-old could teach me something,
but he certainly did.
And that's really heartening to see things like that.
We've heard cases where teachers in schools
have disciplined kids for putting up posters or banners
or flyers about Kevin Mitnick.
I've also heard cases where teachers have actually
brought it to the attention of the rest of the class based on this.
So for every few bad things that happen,
you get one good thing that happens,
and that good thing gets you so much more
as far as the overall fight goes.
And, you know, eventually this thing is going to end
one way or another.
And I just know we'll feel a lot better
having done something to hasten that end
rather than just sit around doing nothing,
waiting for it to end, you see.
And that's what I think we really need to get involved in.
That's why people really need to sign up for this thing.
Now, as far as if you want to be part of the mailing list,
it's very simple.
Of course, you have to have Internet access.
And you need to email basically a message
to majordomo, M-A-J-O-R-D-O-M-O,
at 2600.com.
And in the body of the message,
just put on a line,
subscribe, Mitnick.
And Mitnick is spelled M-I-T-N-I-C-K.
You'll get mailed back with instructions
on how to finish doing that.
And then you'll be subscribed.
And you'll be able to post messages
to that particular news group
or mailing list, actually,
and hear what other people have to say
and suggest things on your own.
We're open to any opinions, any suggestions,
because this is something
that really involves individual people.
Now, if people want to meet up with you,
and I know the first Friday of every month,
there's a 2600 meeting at lots of locations.
Are you going to be anywhere
where people can see you and get some stickers?
Well, we just met up with some folks in Kansas City
who showed us all kinds of neat things down there,
home of Sprint World Headquarters.
And I can tell you right now,
the security guard at Sprint World Headquarters
knows about Kevin Mitnick now.
Really?
We told him all about that.
And he was, well, I wouldn't say
interested is really the word,
but he was concerned.
I think he was more concerned that we were there,
but he knows about it now.
But I'm happy that he knows about it.
And maybe the word will get out to more people.
Right now we're in Tulsa.
We're going to be passing through Oklahoma City.
And I think we're just heading due west now
towards Vegas.
So if people have any kind of message
they want to give to us,
probably the best way to do it
is to call the office of 2600,
which is 516-751-2600,
and hit extension zero.
That will transfer you to a voicemail
or answering machine.
And you can leave a message there
if you're anywhere along the way
and you'd like us to stop by
and visit your town
or see something of interest
that you might have.
So far you've ran into a lot of security personnel.
Oh yeah, the most recent one,
and this is really something,
it was right here in Tulsa.
And it wasn't so much a mall security guard
or anything like that,
although we did run into a mall security guard.
We decided to visit Oral Roberts University,
which happens to be right here in Tulsa.
Actually, I'm not really in Tulsa anymore.
I mean, this town is the name I've already forgotten.
Kellyville.
Yeah, whatever.
So we went to this amazing, amazing place.
I mean, this is where the money goes
when you sign up for these preachers
and reverends on TV and things like that,
the way they ask for all the money.
You mean it doesn't go to Jesus or God?
No, Jesus doesn't seem to be getting any.
It goes to these buildings and to this campus.
It's like a college campus,
except it's all about religion.
Really?
It's Oral Roberts University in Tulsa.
And basically, it's a very impressive place.
It's very imposing.
And we went in there,
wanted to get opinions from people
on the Kevin Mitnick thing,
because we figured, you know,
that would be a good cross-section of America,
a college campus.
And it's a college campus
like any other college campus,
or so they say.
I don't know about that.
Well, that's what they say anyway,
so we decided to believe them.
We talked to one person,
and then the...
I'm not sure what their position was,
but they were very high-ranking officials
at the university.
I think director of publicity
or something like that.
And they were very,
very concerned with what we were doing there.
And so we told them about Kevin Mitnick,
and they said,
no, that can't happen in this country.
And it turns out one of them
was a former federal agent.
Really?
He used to work for the DEA,
just like the guy before us
on the radio.
And I was like,
wow, this guy,
he's at Oral Roberts University,
now a religious university,
but he used to be
a drug enforcement agency.
Was he taking classes,
or is he teaching?
No, he's running the place.
Really?
Yeah, no, that's kind of interesting.
But he wasn't really interested
in talking about that.
He was lecturing us
on how the court system works
and how Kevin can get a trial
anytime he wants
and things like that,
which was all fine and good.
But basically,
the upshot was
that they wanted a Saturday
and they wanted to sit pretty fast.
But it made me worry.
I mean,
I thought I'd run into religious types.
I thought I'd run into,
you know,
all kinds of
Bible-thumping people.
I didn't figure
I'd run into people
that would be,
you know,
former government officials.
Maybe he was there
just for you.
It scared me.
It scared me.
They were the religious cops,
you know.
They ushered us off campus.
And that was something.
All right.
I'm going to give it to
Porkchop now.
He's on the ride, too.
He's the person
who handles real audio.
Of course,
obviously,
he's not doing that right now
since he's in Oklahoma.
But hopefully,
we have a stream going
and he has a couple of words
to say.
Hello, world.
Hello, Phil.
Hi.
Well,
basically,
some things about
the local area.
This is definitely
country-country.
We've been through
several cities
and I'm used to New York,
let me tell you,
and these places
are very different.
At night,
nothing goes on.
There's no cars
in the street.
The streets aren't even
paved in some cases.
But there's no cars
in the street.
Nobody's walking around.
And it's dark
and it's dead
and it's almost like
a nuclear bomb
or something hit.
Everything closes
at what,
6 o'clock?
Out there?
What time is it
out there right now?
Out here right now,
it is 7.34.
Okay.
So we're about
one hour behind you
right now.
Yep.
And some other things,
there's no,
the internet doesn't
play a whole big part,
it seems,
over here
because I haven't seen
a single internet cafe
or anything like it.
The closest thing
is at Kinko's.
And actually,
we've been logging
into 2600
from our hotels
that we've been
staying at
and they're pretty nice.
We've got data jacks
in pretty much
every telephone
which is sort of fun.
Really?
So they accommodate
the traveling professional
that needs online access?
They're cool with that?
Yeah,
that's basically it.
You can plug in,
you can access
their phone system,
you can't,
they don't have
their own ISP
or anything.
They're not that high tech.
You have to go to
New York for,
I guess,
New York or LA
or someplace like that.
But you can call out
and every time
you hit nine
to get an outside line,
it costs 25 cents
no matter what.
I mean,
if you get a busy signal
or if you do anything else,
it doesn't matter.
So you can call
into an ISP
and you don't connect
and you pay 25 cents anyway.
Yeah,
I was hoping maybe
you guys would be
at a hotel
so you can listen
to the real audio stream
and just have that whole,
you know,
test out our technology.
Yeah,
it would be good,
but we're in the middle
of basically
our standard traveling day
is we wake up
at about 12 noon or so
and then we keep on riding
until about 4 or 5 a.m.
Really?
And then we,
that's when we crash
and at another hotel.
So I mean,
it's,
it lets us film,
2,600 films
just started up,
by the way.
Well,
I can confirm
that there's some streams
running right now
so you can rest easy tonight.
That's good to know.
We are streaming.
I don't know the exact number
but I'm sure it's,
you know,
the usual 150 or so.
Hopefully someone will call in
from where you're at tonight.
Oh,
that would be very nice.
Maybe someone in Kellyville
is listening
or they can,
you guys can meet up tonight
or something like that.
That would be great.
Let's see.
Oh,
by the way,
we have,
we have a digital camera with us
and we're going to be
doing some web pages
on the road here
and we're going to be
sending them along
and posting them
on the web server
at 2,600
and as soon as I figure out
a way to upload
I have to find some FTP
or something
to upload to you guys
but as soon as that happens
everybody can go to
the web page
www.2,600.com
and there you go.
That would be great.
Now,
are you taking pictures
of the people
that are kicking you out
and the security personnel
and all that?
That's the camera stuff.
The actual motion camera.
So we'll have to wait
for the film for that, huh?
Yeah,
the camera,
the digital camera
isn't that extremely good
for being kicked out with.
So we have a couple pictures
and we'll show you,
show the whole world
everything that we've done
and you can see a picture
of us doing this very radio show.
Oh, great.
And all sorts of neat information
and that'll be there again.
Oh, and I'm just about
to take a picture of myself.
Smile.
There you go.
Oh, great.
So hopefully we'll see that
on the website soon.
Mm-hmm.
And all right,
I guess the phone number
of people are going to be
calling in sooner or later,
212-209-2900,
I think that is.
Yeah, how'd you do that?
I was just about to say that.
I pulled it out of my memory.
Usually I can't do that.
Okay.
But people I suppose
can start calling in
and we'll be picking up the phones
in about 10, 15 minutes
or maybe even less.
Great.
All right,
I'm going to give you back to Emmanuel.
Okay.
Have fun.
Yeah, be careful out there.
We will.
Bye.
Hey.
Hey.
So, yes, this place is about an hour behind and maybe about a hundred years behind it.
I was just going to say how many years behind it.
A lot, a lot. I mean, nothing against people here, but, you know, when you're from New York, you're just not used to this kind of way of life.
I recall when we went out to Ohio at the Ham Radio Convention, you know, it reminded me of the cast of King of the Hill, if anybody's seen that.
Yeah, you know, I just, while Porkchop was on, I just walked into the store to buy a Coke because it kind of starts out here at the hundred degree heat, which is what it is right now.
Do they call it Coke or Pop out there?
I don't know.
I call it Coke, but they're watching King of the Hill right now.
Really?
I thought that was kind of funny.
Wow.
I guess that's a popular show then.
I think it's on endless loop, actually.
It works.
Oh, yeah,
you want to try
taking phone calls?
Yeah, we're going to try
to do this now.
I hope that we don't
get cut off.
No, well,
Claude,
the talented engineer,
is here,
and I have
the utmost confidence
in the employees.
I have every faith in Claude.
All right, Claude.
Sometimes that faith
gets me in trouble.
Pressure's on.
So let's go to our first
avoid line three.
Hello?
Yes, are you on the air?
Yes, I think I am.
Oh, you are on the air.
Okay.
I was calling to give
everyone in New York
a warning,
and I had two questions.
Bell Atlantic is doing
some kind of promo
where you get
three-way calling,
but it's a pay-per-use
service at 75 cents
each use.
What kind of service
is it, therefore?
It's a pay-per-use service.
You click your switch hook,
you get the stutter dial tone,
and you dial,
and you make a three-way call.
And once it connects
your call,
you get a 75 cent.
They charge you 75 cents
every time you use
three-way?
Yeah.
That's insane.
No, it's for people
who are non-subscribers.
Yeah, but still,
75 cents,
because it's basically
they're figuring out
a way to charge you
75 cents extra
just for making
a phone call.
Yeah, right.
Exactly, because
what they're doing is
if you don't hang up
quick enough
and you pick up,
you might not know
that you're on
through a calling.
Because it's sometimes
hard to hear something.
Of course, yeah.
That happens a lot.
So if you hit the flash button,
you can get charged
like 75 cents on accident?
Right.
And I guess you couldn't,
you wouldn't really
remember doing it,
so you couldn't.
Actually, this town,
Manuette,
is one of the first
towns to be doing this,
and I fell prey to it,
and I'm going to owe
about 30 bucks.
My two questions.
The fast system.
How does that work?
I'm sorry, which system?
The fast system.
It's sort of like,
from what I've seen
while listening to
linemen do work,
it's kind of like
a remob,
but with like
a dozen test functions
built into it.
Uh-huh.
I have the number,
but it requires
an access code,
and I was wondering
if you knew
anything about it.
I can't say I really do.
Nothing that would be
very helpful anyway.
It's a Beltlanic number
that you have?
Yeah.
Well, I mean,
I don't know if you want
to share the number
with us, but you said it.
No, I can give it to you.
Okay.
It's an area code
914-623-9910,
but a lot of other
exchanges have this.
Okay.
It's sort of like
the verification numbers
where like a lot of them
will have it,
and we'll do that.
Well, here's an open
invitation to anybody
who knows about
that particular system.
If they want to write
an article for 2600
about it,
please contact us,
and we'll share
the information
with everybody
because that's the kind
of thing people
should know about.
My last question.
When you call
into this radio show,
do you get charged
when you pick up
or as soon as you call?
Because I'm looking
at my phone bill.
I don't make too many
calls to New York City.
Right.
I mean,
I'm getting billed
for like 60-minute calls,
calling at the beginning
and then not getting through,
and I'm wondering...
They're charging you
for calls.
Is it just ringing?
They never get picked up.
Is that what you're saying?
It's just ringing.
Yeah, I think
that that's what's happening.
I'm wondering,
is it like the PBX?
Is the PBX answering
and holding the call?
It sounds like
there's some sort
of communications problem
between Bell Atlantic
and our phone company.
TCG.
Yeah, and that definitely
should not be happening.
Right.
Now, we were very happy
before that TCG
was not hanging up
on people after,
say, 20 rings
like the Atlantic was.
Right.
I've been connected
for about a half hour now.
But if they are going
to charge you
when it starts ringing,
then that's definitely
not a good way of...
I can see now
why they don't hang up,
but it's not really
a fair way of doing it.
I also don't think
it's legal.
What I would do,
obviously,
is contest those calls,
say that you are in line
at a radio call-in show,
and if they continue
to give you problems,
call the Public Service
Commission on that,
because that definitely
should not be happening.
I'll look into it, too.
I've heard this before
from a couple of people,
and it seems that
our worst fears
are being confirmed here
that they do, in fact,
charge you,
and that definitely
should not be the case.
All right.
Okay, thank you about that.
We didn't mean
to make that happen,
but we'll look into it.
All right.
Bye.
Thanks for calling.
See, I don't know
when people are clicked on,
so I guess I'm just
going to say right now...
Okay, well...
You're on off the hook.
Right now.
You're a new person.
Hi, how are you?
How are you doing?
Where are you calling from?
New York.
New York, great.
Hi.
What's on your mind?
Well, I was hoping
you could help me out.
I was interested
in purchasing ISDN,
and they just have
ISDN in my area
right now in Queens,
but they don't just have it,
but they have a promotion
now where there's
actually no charge
to install it at all
if you want to
upgrade your line.
Right.
Upgrading an existing
line to ISDN
is no charge.
Right, right.
So, I mean,
the promotion's only
on until the end
of this week over here,
but I'm trying to find out
really if it's the...
which modem to get
because they have
different ISDN modems
on the market.
And I'm...
You know,
the one I saw over there,
there was a couple
different ones.
Well, I would say
it depends on what
your needs are.
Are you running
a single site yourself
or are you running
a network?
Well, I have
just one computer
from my home,
but I set one up
in my work.
I used like an
Apheron and
Antopia ISDN router
before,
and right now
I have just a small
peer-to-peer network
in my home,
so I'm deciding
on whether,
you know,
it's worth it
to invest something
like that
for the future.
I think you'd do
fine with a
BitSurfer Pro.
Oh, yeah?
I really think
it would suit
your purposes there.
I mean,
you could go
for something
a little bit
classier,
like a Pipeline 75
or something like
that,
but, you know,
I think you could
probably get away
with something
for a couple
hundred bucks,
which is what
the BitSurfer
goes for.
And I know you
guys have been
talking about this
in the past,
but I really
didn't know
the specifics
of it,
but I was
really trying
to figure out
how I could
avoid this
penny-per-minute
charge.
I know they
have ways
that you can
reduce the line
down to under
50K.
Well, I mean,
what you have
to do is,
do you have
a provider yet?
Yeah, I use
one in the area
over here.
Okay.
You have to
work it out
with the provider
or they will
give you data
over voice.
Once you do
that and you
make the
appropriate
settings on
your end,
then you
connect and
you should
not get
charged
a penny-a-minute.
And if you
do, then you
scream bloody
murder and you
let us know
and we raise
a big fuss
about it.
Okay, so it's
not something
that you have
to adjust your
settings within
windows or
anything like
that.
No, in New
York, and I
don't know other
parts of the
country are doing
it different ways,
but in New
York it's
perfectly okay for
you to use data
over voice 24
hours, seven
days a week and
pay for the
ISDM line.
And whatever the
charge, I'm not
sure how Queens
is structured if
you can get an
untimed call
locally there for
the same way you
can get it in,
say, Suffolk
County.
But that is what
you will pay for
the phone call.
Oh, I see.
Whatever the
charge is for
that.
You won't pay an
additional surcharge
unless you use the
data line, the
64K.
Right.
It's certainly
stupid because it
just keeps people
from doing things
faster because they
put these ridiculous
charges in.
Right, and I
understand in other
parts of the
country they don't
even have this
penny per minute
charge.
No, in other
parts they have
unlimited, some
unlimited 64K or
128K for a good
price, others for
an obscene price.
I think it's to
their advantage to
make it as cheap
as possible so
people start using
it and upgrading
and buying more
things.
One day they'll
learn.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
Is it, I'm sorry,
do you know what a
good price would be
to get for an
ISDN Rotom?
I've been seeing
them for around
about $160 and
up.
That seems like a
good price to me.
I haven't bought
one recently so I'm
not really entirely
certain.
But if you can get
a bit of a
throw for that
kind of money I
think you're
doing good.
Have you ever
heard of the
AdTran I think
they had?
I've heard of it
but I'm not
familiar with it.
To the degree I
can say if it's
good or not.
Okay.
But I'm sure some
of our other
listeners might be
able to give you
some advice also
if you just get
on the net and
ask some questions
there people will
be able to tell
you too.
Okay, well I
appreciate you.
You've been very
helpful with this.
Thanks.
Have a good night.
You too.
212-209-2900.
Let's go to
another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on Off
the Hook.
Hi, this is Matt
from Cumberland in
Rhode Island.
Cumberland, Rhode
Island.
How are you doing
today?
Pretty good.
Speaking to you
from a pay phone
at a gas station
in Oklahoma.
Wonders of
modern technology.
Isn't it?
So anyway, first
thing I'd like to
say is that last
year I was a
webmaster in my
high school and I
did put a free
Kevin button on
the homepage and
they seemed to
believe that
somebody else put
it there, that it
wasn't me.
So they made me
take it off and I
was a little
disappointed.
Really?
Yeah.
They believe
somebody else did
it.
What does that
mean?
They told me that
a hacker broke
in and put a
free Kevin sticker
on the webpage.
They don't seem to
believe that I did
it.
Did you say I
did it?
I didn't.
I'm like, oh,
okay, I guess I
got to take it
off.
Uh-huh.
So was this just
their subtle way of
warning you not to
do it again?
That's what I
thought.
Somebody put it
on that.
If we knew it
was, boy, would
they get in
trouble.
So why don't
you take it
off?
Yeah.
That was pretty
much the tone of
the message.
You see, the
thing is, you
have to try to
educate them at
the same time.
It's not just
an act of
random graffiti.
It's something
that hopefully
will make people
think a little
bit, too.
Hopefully they
will say, well,
who is Kevin
McKinnick and
what's he doing
in jail and go
on from there.
Well, my
situation is
different because I
went to a private
school and they
listen to money and
wallets and stuff
and they get a
complaint from a
parent and, you
know, they will go
to no end to
satisfy people who
will pay them lots
of money.
Well, then what we
need is a parent who
pays them lots of
money to complain for
the other side.
Exactly.
And my parents don't
have a lot of money.
You know, they're not
going to listen to me.
But one of the
parents complained
about the free
Kevin sticker or
the button on the
website.
They didn't like it?
Yeah, they didn't
like that it was a
tribute to a hacker.
Okay.
Hmm.
Well, you know,
that's the first
thing people need to
change their
perception.
We went over to
the religious
university that we
were just at,
Oral Roberts
University in Tulsa.
They actually were
talking to us about
we were trying to
explain what hacking
was.
They said, oh,
yeah, we had a
hacker break into
our web page and
destroy things.
And we were
saying, well,
you know, that's
not a hacker.
A hacker does not
go around destroying
things.
It's very different.
You know, and we're
trying to educate.
I don't know how
far we got because
they really wanted
us to get away
from their campus.
But that's the
perception people
have.
If somebody does
something malicious
on a computer,
they're a hacker.
And that's got to
change.
Well, my other
question is, if
takedown actually
does come out and
be awfully bad as
it seems to be
now, I'm going to
stage a protest.
I think a lot
of people will.
And you said
something about
having legal
protection you had
for the New York
demonstration.
Right.
What kind was
that?
Was this like
having a lawyer's
phone number on
hand in case
something...
No, we had a
lawyer there,
actually, National
Lawyers Guild.
They will send
lawyers to
demonstrations if
you contact them
and let them
know about these
things.
And they're very
helpful, they're
very supportive,
and they made
the situation a lot
easier and made
us know what the
lines were, what
not to cross.
So I think that's
essential for any
kind of demonstration
to have somebody
like that who's
aware of the law.
Okay.
Well, thanks a lot.
Thanks for calling.
See you later.
212-209-2900.
Hi, Manuel.
Oh, my God.
That's why I didn't
say anything.
I could sense it.
It was a darkness
that just went over
the whole phone.
Ben, I've got to
stop.
Oh, my God.
Even here in
Oklahoma, I feel it.
Even here, I can.
Where's Fiber Ben?
Yes, go ahead.
Make it snappy.
Where's Fiber Ben?
Where's Fiber Ben?
You'll have to ask
Fiber questions like
that because I'm in
Oklahoma and I don't
even know where I've
been.
All right.
Now, I want to
know.
I want to know.
Everybody wants to
know, but we can't
always know things.
You see, that's the
whole problem.
Good luck, Owen,
when you request.
All right.
When you're in
Oklahoma and when
you stay at a
motel, make three
phone calls by having
the operator dial the
number for you.
I'll try to remember
those words of advice.
And also, I'd like to
mention that, you
know, I wanted to ask
you something else,
but we have Fiber.
He hasn't been on the
show.
I thought we covered
that one already.
Yeah.
Okay.
What kind of gas
station you're at?
I'm just curious.
What kind of gas
station are we at?
Well, that's sure
the controversial
question to bring up.
You know, I don't
even know.
I don't see a name
of this gas station
anywhere.
I really don't know
what kind of gas
station this is.
There's no name.
It's got red pumps.
It says food store
unleaded, 97.9 cents.
And that's really all
it says.
You know, that's
what I want to
mention.
There was the
person in New York
City that killed
somebody and that
got out on parole.
Kevin Schnitner
should be out on
parole.
And he didn't kill
anyone.
You know, they're
letting killers and
people who murder
people out on parole.
Well, that's the
whole point we're
trying to make.
Right, yeah.
I'll ask you a
question.
It's a wholesale
petroleum corporation
or something like
that.
Anyway, thanks for
calling.
We're going to move
on to another
phone call.
Yeah.
All right.
212-209-2900.
We're running out of
time, so we're going
to try and squeeze a
few of them in here.
Good evening.
You're on Off the
Hook.
Hi, Manuel.
This is MS.
I'm in New York.
How are you doing?
Hi.
I have a question, and
on top of that, I also
want to share a funny
anecdote with the
free Kevin stickers.
Let's start with a
funny anecdote, because
I could use a little
humor after that last
call.
Okay.
See, we were going to
put them up on traffic
signs and not kind of
blocking the traffic
signs, but, you know,
people have to look at
traffic signs.
So, we found one that
says, do not enter, and
you know, like, that
white space between do
not and enter?
Like, the free Kevin
stickers fit perfectly in
them.
So, what me and my
friend, the Black
Vortex, did was we put
it in there, and then
we came around like an
hour later just to check
if it was still there,
and then we realized
that it said, do not
free Kevin.
Oh, no, no.
No, don't worry.
We took it off.
We corrected ourselves
and we took it off.
Oh, wow.
That's pretty sobering
right there.
Yeah.
And the question is
that, like, speaking of,
like, pay phones at gas
stations, because, like,
there are these two pay
phones that I love
freaking from at this
gas station in Brooklyn,
and, like, every time,
like, I call it PBXs,
and I try and get into,
like, voicemail boxes,
but the thing is that,
like, every time I get
into the PBX, like, the
keypads just completely
disconnect, and, like,
whatever I press in,
it just, like,
doesn't register.
Is that, is that,
are those just, like,
the pay phones, or what?
You're doing this from
where again?
Pay phones at gas stations.
Yeah, well, it sounds
like a cocot to me,
and a lot of cocots do
that.
If you connect to
something, they discontinue
the touch tones.
You can press the button,
obviously, but silence
comes through.
That's actually another
use for the RadioShack
tone dialer, because that
allows you to send tones
across the, uh, the
mouthpiece, and you
don't have to press
their buttons, you
press your own buttons.
Cool.
Yeah, so that, that
actually does, uh, does
work there.
Are you going to be, um,
back in, at New York
by the time of the next,
uh, 26th meeting?
Uh, are we, am I going
to be back for the next
meeting?
No.
No?
Definitely not.
I don't know exactly
where.
We'll be probably someplace
in California, and maybe
still Nevada, for that
meeting, and if people
are out there, and they
want to, uh, convince us
to go to their meeting
instead of someone else's
meeting, well, then,
you know, there's
now's the time to do
it.
Uh, my email, by the
way, in case, uh, you
want to keep in touch
with us as we go
cross-country, well, for
the whole radio show,
it's O-P-H at 2600.com,
and for me, it's
Emanuel at 2600.com.
Okay.
Uh, thanks for the
call.
Before we go on to the
next phone call, we
have someone else here,
uh, our camera guy,
uh, Exceed.
It's really his birth
name, actually, Exceed.
I guess his, his mother
had high expectations
for him, and I just
had a couple of words
to say to the folks
back in New York.
I'm convinced.
What's going on over
there?
How's the, uh,
filming going, Exceed?
Filming's going great,
uh, we, but we keep,
um, seeming to forget
to, uh, put different
settings on it.
Yeah.
Right now, we're being
berated and, uh, eaten
by flies out here in
this gas station.
It's pretty, uh, pretty
horrible.
You don't have any
repellent out there?
No, we don't.
We don't have any of
that.
I would say probably
purchase some repellent if
you're going to be
roaming around, you know,
this hour.
Well, we didn't think
there were flies around
here.
I mean, we don't,
we don't, yeah, we
don't come into this
kind of thing.
This is the first time
we've had this problem
this whole trip.
This is, um, and it's
a big problem.
Yeah.
Because they're eating
our pizza.
So you don't have anything
in the, in the 2600
first aid kit in the
back of the, uh, the
vehicle.
By the way, what are
you driving out there?
We are driving a green
car.
A green car.
Yeah.
Well, that narrows it
down.
It's green.
So anybody out in,
uh, Oklahoma tonight
that sees a green car,
they should beep and
say hi to you.
Yeah, we actually, uh,
we actually met Taylor.
Oh, wait, no.
That was, uh, that was
our guy.
Sorry.
Yeah, well, um, all
right, so I'm going to
give you back for, no,
not yet.
He's full of pizza in
his mouth.
All right, here we go.
Oh, that's okay.
These are, uh, pizza
flies.
I think you know the
kind.
Are they indigenous
just to, uh, just to
Oklahoma?
5,000 of them are.
Sorry?
Are they indigenous
just to, uh, Oklahoma
or have you seen
them all?
No, I see the same
kind in Queens, actually.
Yeah.
But, um, we're, we're,
just to give you an
idea, we're sitting at a
gas station that sells
pizza on this, on this
desolate road, drive
through pizza, stay for
the gas, and 100 degree
heat, and people with
real hostile stares.
Now, they're not really
hostile, but they're, I
think they think we're
hostile.
So, anyway, I think we
have time for one more
call?
Yeah.
Okay, let's take it.
212-209-2900.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Was that at Donald
Town?
That was at Donald
Town.
Wow.
Okay, go ahead.
Hi, how are you?
Hi.
Where are you coming
from?
Montclair, New Jersey.
Beautiful town.
Listen, I was, um, on the
web today, and the, um,
Law Journal Extra, which is
part of, uh, the New Jersey,
I mean, the New York Law
Journal, uh, publishing.
And it's www.ljx.com.
They have a news story, which is
slated for the Monday, August 3rd,
National Law Journal, in which, uh,
Kevin Mitnick's attorney is
asking, petitioning the Supreme
Court to decide whether he can be
held without bail.
So, there's your answer, Phil.
Wow.
It's, uh, it's, it's, uh, fantastic.
I know I got to, uh, ask that in the,
the, uh, MSNBC chat room, and I was
hoping he was going to be filing.
I didn't hear anything.
And, uh, so it's going to be
August, August 3rd?
Well, it's available now.
I mean, I have the, the actual,
it's a two-page, um, story.
Well, actually, a page, a little
bit.
And, um, it says national, it's
going to appear in the National
Law Journal on Monday, August 3rd,
but it already, I don't know if
that's because, I don't know how
they do their dating.
Well, we're going to, we're going
to keep an eye out for that, but
thanks very much for alerting us.
Well, it's on the web right now.
What's on the web?
What's the address again?
It's www.ljx.com forward slash
top stories.
Okay.
We'll check a number of them
listed there, so.
We'll check it out.
Thank you.
Thanks very much for calling.
Yep.
No problem.
All right.
Bye.
And, uh, this, this flash, we've
just saved somebody.
Porkchop has just saved somebody
from total, uh, total, uh,
horrible fate here.
They're driving away with their
gas cap open.
All right.
Well, I ran across the street
risking his life to close it for
them, and they were very happy.
I think, uh, we're hitting the
end of the show.
Oh, okay.
Well, I just wanted to point out
that New Yorkers can help out
people in Oklahoma.
We're friendly people.
It's not true of all those
things they say about New
Yorkers.
Well, no, that's true, too, but,
uh, other things are true as
well.
Okay.
Anyway, uh, I want to thank you,
Phil, for coming in.
I want to thank Claude for, uh,
helping out on the board, or
actually doing everything on
the board.
Yeah, the technical wizard over
here.
Great job.
I don't think we had a single
technical glitch.
No.
At all.
So, we'll be back again next
week.
I don't know where I'll be, but
I'll be somewhere like this.
Hopefully a more cosmopolitan
type place.
Well, good luck, and, uh, stay
out of the, the, the clinches of
the security personnel that you
seem to be...
Well, no, actually, the whole
point is that we stay in their
clinches and get them the way
that they are supposed to be.
If you have any ideas for
things we should be filming,
then you can mail us at
film, F-I-L-M, at
2600.com, and we'll check it
out, uh, from our hotel room.
It's just like, you know, the
Kevin Mitnick lifestyle,
jacking into the net from the
hotel room.
Yeah.
And we'll, we'll see just what
it is people are up to, and
we'll try and come by and
capture it.
Okay.
For, for eons.
Again, this is Manuel
Rostein for Phil and for
Claude and for Porkshop and
for X-Seed here.
Until next week, this is Off the
Hook.
Good night.
Nya.
Nya.
Nya.
T-T-T-2 say goodbye.
T-T-T-T-3 don't cry.
T-T-T-brainer take me.
Away from you, the word can
tell how sad it makes me.
Kiss me tootsie and then.
T-T-T-T-2 say goodbye.
Watch for the mail, I'll never
fail.
If you don't get a letter, then
you'll know him in jail.
T-T-T-2 don't cry.
T-T-T-3 goodbye.
T-T-T-O
Said goodbye.
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