Off The Hook - 1998-08-25

[00:02.000 --> 00:04.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the promise of the future.
[00:04.380 --> 00:08.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: Friday, August 28th, at Hunter College, room 714, at 7pm.
[00:09.180 --> 00:13.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: For more information, call 718-832-1825.
[00:14.300 --> 00:17.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: 718-832-1825.
[00:36.220 --> 00:38.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: You have reached the Kremlin.
[00:38.480 --> 00:44.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: In order to report the unconstitutional suspension of a legally elected parliament, press 1.
[00:44.420 --> 00:52.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: In order to report the bloody suppression of resistance to the unconstitutional suspension of a legally elected parliament, press 2.
[00:53.860 --> 01:04.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: In order to report the unanimous support of the unconstitutional suspension of a legally elected parliament by the morally bankrupt leadership of the Western democracies, press 3.
[01:05.600 --> 01:08.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: For all of the above, press 4.
[01:09.440 --> 01:12.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: You have selected option 4, all of the above.
[01:13.400 --> 01:18.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: All of our unprincipled collaborators with Western business interests are busy right now.
[01:19.160 --> 01:24.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please wait until the regime has had time to consolidate its power and try your call again.
[02:14.550 --> 02:17.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: And this is Off the Hook with Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:18.030 --> 02:19.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel, are you there?
[02:46.950 --> 02:53.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: And hello, and it seems like it's going to be a sequel to last week, just when you thought it couldn't get any better or worse.
[02:54.490 --> 02:57.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: It only gets more exciting here in Cutting Edge Radio.
[02:57.710 --> 02:57.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[02:58.570 --> 03:07.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, well, tonight, we're going to have Emmanuel on shortly after we clear up some of the minor bells and whistles that seem to be going.
[03:07.830 --> 03:09.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: My friend Isaac is here tonight.
[03:09.230 --> 03:10.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Isaac, is your mic on?
[03:10.190 --> 03:11.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe it is.
[03:11.110 --> 03:11.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, it is.
[03:11.630 --> 03:11.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Fantastic.
[03:12.250 --> 03:16.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, at least this week, we can have someone besides myself pulling my hair out.
[03:16.310 --> 03:18.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, besides Claude, it is entertaining to watch Claude freak out.
[03:19.330 --> 03:22.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like right now, he's hand motions and all that other stuff.
[03:23.070 --> 03:24.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, let's start off with some news real quick.
[03:24.790 --> 03:28.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Isaac, do you have anything that you know besides...
[03:28.270 --> 03:28.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Me?
[03:28.730 --> 03:29.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Know anything?
[03:29.430 --> 03:29.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, of course not.
[03:29.790 --> 03:34.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Besides any presidential splurges here or there, or maybe some comments?
[03:34.270 --> 03:36.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been all conspiracied out so far as Clinton.
[03:36.730 --> 03:39.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there's a couple stories involving technologies.
[03:39.650 --> 03:49.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: One of the first ones, I think last week, the week before we mentioned this, or maybe it was even in like 2600, the magazine, a lot of people use geocities.
[03:49.730 --> 03:50.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: You've heard of them, right?
[03:50.470 --> 03:51.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I have.
[03:51.010 --> 03:53.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of people like them for which reason?
[03:53.790 --> 03:54.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, privacy.
[03:54.990 --> 03:55.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, of course.
[03:56.310 --> 03:57.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Free web space.
[03:57.410 --> 04:02.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: I personally enjoy the banners that they force you to display, as well as that like spiffy little...
[04:02.970 --> 04:06.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Gentlemen, I think we have Emmanuel without feedback.
[04:06.770 --> 04:07.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, my.
[04:07.210 --> 04:07.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Are you there, Emmanuel?
[04:08.990 --> 04:09.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Are you there?
[04:10.230 --> 04:12.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it seems like he's trying to call me right now.
[04:13.650 --> 04:14.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Could you start the mic?
[04:14.650 --> 04:15.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, well...
[04:15.790 --> 04:17.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I think he's here.
[04:17.510 --> 04:17.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anyways...
[04:17.950 --> 04:18.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel?
[04:19.330 --> 04:20.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, let me...
[04:20.770 --> 04:20.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[04:21.090 --> 04:21.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Isaac, you know what?
[04:22.010 --> 04:23.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead and read the geocities story.
[04:23.590 --> 04:24.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me...
[04:24.050 --> 04:24.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[04:24.330 --> 04:25.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: ...answer the phone.
[04:25.350 --> 04:25.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see.
[04:26.010 --> 04:26.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, hi.
[04:26.550 --> 04:27.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you still on the line right now?
[04:27.450 --> 04:40.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Federal regulators Thursday charged geocities, or geocities, it's your pick there, a popular Internet destination that hosts free websites misled its two million members by secretly selling personal information about them to marketers.
[04:41.130 --> 04:46.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: The Federal Trade Commission, in its first Internet privacy case, said geocities, or geocities...
[04:46.710 --> 04:47.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are you...
[04:47.410 --> 04:48.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't even know how to pronounce it, but anyway.
[04:49.150 --> 04:56.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...had agreed to advertise customers, to advise customers of its true data collection practices and allow them to delete previously gathered data.
[04:57.310 --> 04:58.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, call it.
[04:58.230 --> 05:07.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: The FTC said geocities released personal details about its customers to advertisers in violation of its own promises.
[05:07.670 --> 05:09.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, that's really fun.
[05:09.170 --> 05:09.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Very funny.
[05:12.370 --> 05:17.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: This company just starts giving out personal information about their customers.
[05:18.410 --> 05:27.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: The FTC said the company had stated that without permission, it wouldn't release information about a person's education, income, marital status, occupation, and personal interests.
[05:27.510 --> 05:34.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, my question is, why does this company have all this information, and why would an individual actually voluntarily supply it to them?
[05:35.370 --> 05:38.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I guess, uh... I guess my microphone is on.
[05:40.050 --> 05:41.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, uh... Well, maybe it's still not.
[05:45.090 --> 05:45.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, well...
[05:45.890 --> 05:48.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, no, now my microphone's on.
[05:48.630 --> 05:50.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: We gotta be violating some FCC thing here.
[05:50.850 --> 05:51.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is just bad.
[05:52.550 --> 05:58.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyways, yeah, well, every time I've used geocities, I've never actually put my real name, my real information...
[05:58.170 --> 06:00.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, I don't put my real name or real information on anything.
[06:00.690 --> 06:04.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I guess the people who did, and were trying to play by the rules, really had to suffer.
[06:05.010 --> 06:06.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, um... I don't know.
[06:06.930 --> 06:10.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder how much money they made off of all this, and if they plan to reimburse their customers.
[06:11.030 --> 06:12.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: I seriously doubt it.
[06:12.510 --> 06:14.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Two million customers, all together.
[06:15.090 --> 06:15.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Two million.
[06:15.990 --> 06:20.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, I think our phone problems are resolved, and I think a manual's gonna be on the air.
[06:21.090 --> 06:24.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Claude has lost about 20 years of life in my presence over the last couple weeks.
[06:24.810 --> 06:25.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Am I here?
[06:26.210 --> 06:26.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah!
[06:26.930 --> 06:27.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah!
[06:27.930 --> 06:30.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, it's really not that hard.
[06:30.210 --> 06:31.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's the hardest thing to make a phone call.
[06:32.030 --> 06:33.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: One of these weeks, we'll get it right.
[06:33.850 --> 06:35.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, I think you're...
[06:35.850 --> 06:36.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I don't know.
[06:37.770 --> 06:38.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're almost there.
[06:38.790 --> 06:39.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's still there?
[06:39.630 --> 06:42.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm standing at a payphone down here in Alabama, yeah.
[06:42.430 --> 06:42.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[06:42.610 --> 06:46.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if it came across the first time, but we had all kinds of, like, weird WBAI sounds.
[06:46.630 --> 06:49.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure it came across the air if there was anything weird going on.
[06:50.990 --> 06:51.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[06:51.810 --> 06:52.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, boy.
[06:52.270 --> 06:55.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: If anyone has a phone system for us, please just drop it off at the studio.
[06:56.710 --> 07:03.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I'm standing here in an Exxon station down in Evergreen, Alabama, which I'm not here for any particular reason.
[07:04.050 --> 07:06.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's just where I happen to stop on the road, because that's what time it is right now.
[07:07.770 --> 07:14.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Last week, I was in Berkeley, so you have a sense as to the kind of driving I've been doing, along with camera crew at all.
[07:14.630 --> 07:16.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we've seen quite a few interesting things along the way.
[07:17.730 --> 07:22.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, what have you seen... I guess I'll dare to ask, have you seen anything interesting in Alabama?
[07:23.930 --> 07:25.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, not really.
[07:25.370 --> 07:31.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's no coverage here of any sort for PCS, either Sprint, Omnipoint, or Bell South, or anything like that.
[07:32.310 --> 07:34.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I have to use a payphone.
[07:34.770 --> 07:36.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, there's not much else.
[07:36.950 --> 07:40.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, there's roads, towns, things like that.
[07:40.810 --> 07:45.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sure the people are nice, too, but I'm trying to get through the state as quickly as possible, to be honest.
[07:45.450 --> 07:46.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I agree.
[07:46.550 --> 07:48.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you going to be heading back up after this, or...?
[07:48.210 --> 07:55.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's the general plan, although right now our goal is Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia, way up north.
[07:56.110 --> 08:03.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we were going to visit the folks over at the Takedown set, but I don't know if you've been following the news.
[08:04.450 --> 08:12.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: It seems that the hurricane is making a beeline for the set at this point in time.
[08:13.030 --> 08:15.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, it's estimated that it will reject...
[08:15.430 --> 08:17.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: and destroy the set by sometime tomorrow.
[08:18.370 --> 08:23.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's something that causes me concern, because, you know, it's not like that's something we wanted to have happen.
[08:23.850 --> 08:37.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I fear that one of the listeners, or one of the subscribers, or somebody may have called upon Almighty Allah, or Christ, or whatever, to rain forth upon these people with all kinds of venom.
[08:37.770 --> 08:40.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I just like to stress at this point that that's not what we meant to do.
[08:41.170 --> 08:43.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's not exactly how I want things to turn out.
[08:43.710 --> 08:48.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hacking the divine is something I'm not sure that we're all that capable of.
[08:49.110 --> 08:53.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, last week I read a story about the Pope was getting, and the Vatican was getting online services.
[08:53.710 --> 08:58.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe they liked the new story, and they thought they'd do us a favor, but I don't know if Bonnie is the right way to show appreciation.
[08:58.990 --> 08:59.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't either.
[09:00.010 --> 09:00.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not very masculine.
[09:00.970 --> 09:05.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, no, it can't be masculine, but, you know, I don't really quake at... Well, now, here's the thing.
[09:06.130 --> 09:08.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Here's the thing, and I don't think a lot of people realize this.
[09:08.470 --> 09:12.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: I fear that the Takedown people aren't taking this seriously.
[09:13.810 --> 09:19.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you look at the map, you know, if you look at the news reports, you will see the eye of the hurricane.
[09:20.190 --> 09:21.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: You'll see the direction it's heading for.
[09:22.070 --> 09:25.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: You will see a little dot that indicates Takedown being produced there.
[09:25.810 --> 09:26.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: That is where it is heading.
[09:27.250 --> 09:34.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, perhaps they should take this as a bad omen, but... Well, no, I'm just trying to warn the people in advance, because I'm pretty certain they listen to us down there on Real Audio.
[09:35.210 --> 09:35.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[09:35.770 --> 09:39.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we do not wish ill upon them, and we want them to be safe.
[09:39.790 --> 09:45.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, for God's sake, this is kind of like the scene in Twister, where the rival gangs of Twister watchers are trying to warn each other.
[09:45.970 --> 09:46.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is the big one.
[09:46.990 --> 09:47.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, this is the big one.
[09:47.990 --> 09:55.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, they were looking at this thing, and they saw another hurricane contained within this hurricane, and they say they've never seen that before.
[09:56.570 --> 09:59.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if that's not enough for you, Hurricane Bonnie.
[10:00.130 --> 10:02.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bonnie is the name of Kevin Mitnick's ex-wife.
[10:02.870 --> 10:03.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, boy.
[10:03.450 --> 10:04.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, that's interesting.
[10:04.390 --> 10:06.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, the metaphor just could not be more perfect for me.
[10:07.330 --> 10:10.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I think we'd better start taking this seriously.
[10:10.570 --> 10:15.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, if Shimomura gets injured by a flying garbage can lid... Yeah, that could still happen.
[10:15.330 --> 10:16.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: It could still happen.
[10:16.330 --> 10:19.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: We don't even need Mitnick in the scene anymore.
[10:19.590 --> 10:20.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no.
[10:20.430 --> 10:23.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: This has all the real makings of a huge Hollywood film.
[10:23.630 --> 10:24.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, we have Twister.
[10:24.610 --> 10:26.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have all the violence and racism.
[10:26.590 --> 10:28.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: It could be like a Schindler's List going on.
[10:28.270 --> 10:29.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it could be all kinds of things happening.
[10:29.470 --> 10:29.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah.
[10:32.290 --> 10:32.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you okay?
[10:34.550 --> 10:35.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think... Uh-huh.
[10:36.190 --> 10:36.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you all right?
[10:37.690 --> 10:38.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Am I okay?
[10:38.490 --> 10:40.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, we... Yeah, I was just being talked to by somebody.
[10:41.150 --> 10:41.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[10:41.730 --> 10:41.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[10:42.170 --> 10:43.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I thought maybe you got hit over the head or something.
[10:43.750 --> 10:44.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm fine.
[10:44.330 --> 10:44.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm fine.
[10:44.910 --> 10:47.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Taken away from your payphone privileges there or something.
[10:47.870 --> 10:50.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, what else is going on in your travels?
[10:50.010 --> 10:50.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, let's see.
[10:51.010 --> 10:56.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: We traveled through Nevada, stopped in Reno, which is kind of like an imitation Las Vegas.
[10:56.430 --> 10:57.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: It doesn't do a very good job at it.
[10:57.590 --> 10:58.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's pretty depressing.
[10:58.110 --> 10:58.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's pretty depressing.
[10:58.930 --> 10:59.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's very depressing.
[10:59.750 --> 11:01.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, you know how Las Vegas is very hot.
[11:01.950 --> 11:05.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, Reno is kind of cold, and in more waves than one, actually.
[11:06.090 --> 11:17.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, we zipped on through there, went into Utah, which is an interesting state, visited the folks over at Novell, and headed down to Denver, and met some striking U.S.
[11:17.070 --> 11:17.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: West workers.
[11:18.950 --> 11:22.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that was kind of interesting, too, talking to striking telephone company workers.
[11:22.890 --> 11:26.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, they're on strike right now in, yeah, Denver.
[11:26.950 --> 11:28.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: 35,000 of them are striking.
[11:28.630 --> 11:31.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we didn't see 35,000 of them, but Denver is where U.S.
[11:31.690 --> 11:34.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: West is headquartered, and they're striking all throughout, I think, 14 states where U.S.
[11:34.890 --> 11:35.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: West operates.
[11:35.950 --> 11:38.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: But SNET, Southern Union telephone, has also gone out.
[11:38.970 --> 11:39.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was going to mention that.
[11:39.910 --> 11:45.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, and you see this kind of thing happen quite a bit, because these companies are being downsized.
[11:45.650 --> 11:48.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: The workers are being treated rather poorly.
[11:48.850 --> 11:51.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And after a while, you know, it just kind of overflows.
[11:51.810 --> 11:53.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: People can't take it anymore.
[11:53.610 --> 12:06.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, I was listening to an ad on a Connecticut radio station that I got out on the island, where SNET actually bought a 30-second spot, where they're talking about, oh, well, the union is being unreasonable.
[12:07.010 --> 12:18.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: SNET has, for the past hundred and something years, which I find, like, really strange, but been absolutely in favor of worker rights and yada, yada, yada.
[12:18.710 --> 12:32.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then they mentioned the hurricane that's incoming and how they're preparing, despite the horrible labor shortages for the impending doom that this hurricane would possibly bring to Connecticut.
[12:33.410 --> 12:36.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Meanwhile, us on the island are most likely going to get harder hit.
[12:37.030 --> 12:40.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, it would be nice if the union people could afford to take out ads as well.
[12:40.310 --> 12:40.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's true.
[12:40.890 --> 12:42.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I found the most interesting.
[12:42.150 --> 12:42.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speak their piece.
[12:42.890 --> 12:43.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's just good.
[12:43.450 --> 12:48.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: They go to show you what they spend our money on, because that is our money that's being used for these advertisements.
[12:48.350 --> 12:49.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, not necessarily our money.
[12:49.450 --> 12:50.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't use SNET.
[12:50.550 --> 12:52.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, okay, but some of our listeners do.
[12:52.970 --> 12:53.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[12:53.510 --> 12:54.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: People in southern New England.
[12:55.590 --> 12:58.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's, you know, other phone companies operate exactly the same way, too.
[12:59.410 --> 13:02.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's something that you have to keep an eye on.
[13:02.330 --> 13:07.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've been hearing all kinds of complaints about all kinds of different phone companies since we've been passing from state to state.
[13:08.310 --> 13:13.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, the biggest complaints are being hurled at AT&T for this new $3 fee for not using their service.
[13:13.490 --> 13:13.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[13:13.990 --> 13:17.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'll tell you, I won't be using their service anymore after this kind of a thing happens.
[13:17.830 --> 13:28.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think it's about time that some of us start going on strike and not paying our phone bills, because, like I've always said, I say this, I think, more often, you know, once every couple weeks I mention this, I can't get local phone coverage in New Jersey besides Bell Atlantic.
[13:29.570 --> 13:32.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: And no one sees this as a monopoly.
[13:32.230 --> 13:32.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: No one's upset.
[13:32.950 --> 13:33.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think I should go on strike.
[13:34.090 --> 13:40.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: But unfortunately, I do need to dial my phone and do need to get, you know, the occasional delivery of food or something like that.
[13:40.190 --> 13:42.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I don't really have too much of a choice in the matter.
[13:42.310 --> 13:44.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I guess, like, for my long distance, I don't have to use AT&T anymore.
[13:46.250 --> 13:46.570]  But...
[13:46.570 --> 13:51.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there are options as far as long distance goes, and someday there will be options as far as local service goes.
[13:51.290 --> 13:52.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: It would be nice.
[13:52.150 --> 13:52.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: It really would be.
[13:53.810 --> 14:01.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, after that, we actually made it from Denver down to Austin, Texas, in one sitting, which is about 1,100 miles.
[14:02.530 --> 14:04.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's more than I've ever driven in my life.
[14:04.710 --> 14:05.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a lot of coffee.
[14:05.890 --> 14:06.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sorry?
[14:06.310 --> 14:07.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a lot of coffee.
[14:07.610 --> 14:09.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, actually, it's no coffee, because I'm not a coffee person.
[14:09.950 --> 14:10.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no, that's impressive.
[14:11.230 --> 14:16.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, a lot of music and a lot of, you know, talk radio that gets you, like, yelling back at the radio and keeping you awake that way.
[14:17.150 --> 14:19.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I'll tell you, though, there's no stations like WBAI.
[14:19.890 --> 14:23.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Even though there are those places that have Pacifica stations, they're just not the same.
[14:23.470 --> 14:27.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you know, WBAI is a very unique place, and I wish I could get that station.
[14:27.490 --> 14:30.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, if somebody could invent real audio for the car, that would be the best thing.
[14:31.130 --> 14:33.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because then I could, you know, take the station with me wherever I go.
[14:34.610 --> 14:38.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I don't think there are going to be stations like WBAI around the country anytime soon.
[14:39.690 --> 14:43.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's certainly no shortage of right-wing talk shows on the AM radio.
[14:43.250 --> 14:44.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're kind of amusing to listen to.
[14:44.450 --> 14:47.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, I'd sure like to hear the other side represented just now and then.
[14:49.010 --> 14:50.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's funny that you mention that.
[14:50.710 --> 14:57.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a story that just came out a couple days ago stating that there's more radio on the net than on the air.
[14:57.930 --> 14:58.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, really?
[14:58.730 --> 15:00.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, well, it's going that way.
[15:00.530 --> 15:02.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's how the headline read.
[15:03.830 --> 15:09.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: It says, hankering to hear some country folk or some bluegrass from the Czech Republic like a taste of Mohawk Indian radio?
[15:09.810 --> 15:13.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, tune into the web, and then you can get your own hometown radio station.
[15:15.390 --> 15:25.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the article basically stated that there's a book available right now for $20 from International Broadcasting Services Limited that has the Passport to World Band Radio.
[15:25.790 --> 15:35.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it pretty much lists... I mean, a lot of our listeners here and a lot of our listeners, of course, on Real Audio know that there's other Real Audio stations out there.
[15:35.610 --> 15:42.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Even after the show that we do, there's people who play CDs and have, you know, all sorts of fun and talk over the music.
[15:43.290 --> 15:43.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[15:43.790 --> 15:59.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it seems that because there's not a lot of WBIs out there, because there's not a lot of, you know, interesting radio all over the country, people are using their computers and tuning into, you know, whatever, you know, jazz stations to Newark, New Jersey to,
[15:59.690 --> 16:03.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: you know, Mohawk Indian music out in Arizona or something like that.
[16:04.110 --> 16:12.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think that's, you know, within the next couple years where as access rates get quicker, I think people are going to be listening to the web more than they will their own radio.
[16:12.710 --> 16:14.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're just going to search for stations that they like.
[16:14.410 --> 16:17.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'd like to see how the FCC is going to try to move in and control that.
[16:17.310 --> 16:25.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: That'd be very interesting, being that, hmm, they don't actually sell any of this so far as blocks of air.
[16:27.150 --> 16:35.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was reading a story recently that a number of, a large chunk of the spectrum that was sold to smaller companies.
[16:35.530 --> 16:37.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: The smaller companies didn't pay up.
[16:37.810 --> 16:42.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: So the FCC decided to take the frequencies back and try and resell them.
[16:42.910 --> 16:46.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was like $10.8 million that they were in the hole.
[16:46.450 --> 16:50.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: So they're going to reclaim that most likely with another payphone tax or something.
[16:51.090 --> 16:57.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm sure they'll figure a way to charge like companies like Real Audio or something like that, some type of weird tax that, you know.
[16:57.430 --> 17:03.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's why we have to get involved and, you know, maintain a stronghold on these technologies before something like that happens.
[17:03.850 --> 17:06.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, look at how quickly micro-broadcasting was wiped out.
[17:06.670 --> 17:07.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it was wiped out.
[17:08.050 --> 17:12.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Stations are off the air in New York, Philadelphia, Berkeley, all over the place.
[17:12.310 --> 17:13.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: They've just been silenced.
[17:13.750 --> 17:18.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, we're talking about 50-watt radio stations that were simply providing alternative services.
[17:18.490 --> 17:21.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: And this is what the FCC looks upon as the biggest threat.
[17:21.330 --> 17:27.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, the biggest threat should be multinational corporations that own every single radio station in a particular market.
[17:27.450 --> 17:28.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a real threat.
[17:28.290 --> 17:28.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, no.
[17:28.410 --> 17:29.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: They make a profit off of that.
[17:29.950 --> 17:32.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that's not a threat to the FCC.
[17:32.930 --> 17:33.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, no.
[17:33.450 --> 17:34.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: But they see that.
[17:35.090 --> 17:36.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the American public supports this.
[17:36.950 --> 17:42.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: They see them as, you know, serving their interests by keeping these monopolies going.
[17:43.470 --> 17:48.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's time that other people grab some technology and show what we can do with it.
[17:48.330 --> 17:51.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's a perfect opportunity for things like Real Audio and the Internet.
[17:52.470 --> 17:52.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely.
[17:53.210 --> 17:53.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely.
[17:53.690 --> 17:56.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if most, you know, maybe it's just the market share shifting.
[17:56.810 --> 18:01.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe most Americans don't want to hear, you know, talk radio.
[18:01.590 --> 18:03.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or maybe they don't want to hear Caribbean music.
[18:03.730 --> 18:05.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe they only want to hear the same ten songs over and over.
[18:05.750 --> 18:06.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not sure.
[18:06.330 --> 18:09.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you've been all over, so you probably know...
[18:09.750 --> 18:10.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's Al's CD.
[18:10.510 --> 18:11.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here's the thing.
[18:11.390 --> 18:14.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're not being asked if they want to hear the same ten songs over and over again.
[18:14.670 --> 18:17.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's happening is they're hearing the same ten songs over and over again.
[18:17.450 --> 18:22.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then they're being, you know, they're being asked, are you unhappy?
[18:22.230 --> 18:25.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they're not unhappy because they've got their McDonald's and they've got, you know, their...
[18:26.950 --> 18:29.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Budweiser and, you know, TV and all that stuff.
[18:29.770 --> 18:40.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but, you know, after a while, it's, you know, basically, you get spoiled when you listen to stations like WBAI, when you listen to alternative music of all sorts, and when you just expand your mind.
[18:41.170 --> 18:46.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Then all of a sudden you realize how much you're missing if you don't make the attempt to do that.
[18:46.230 --> 18:59.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what I think is our obligation, if we have access to technology and can spread it to people, it's to get the word out, is to tell people, hey, listen to the Pacifica Evening News on www.pacifica.org every day, you know.
[18:59.910 --> 19:01.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can do that any place.
[19:01.190 --> 19:04.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: You don't have to be in a WBAI or any other Pacifica stations listening area.
[19:04.910 --> 19:10.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: You just click on the website and you hear a half hour of news that you do not hear anyplace else, you know.
[19:10.230 --> 19:12.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, I'm giving my beg-a-thon pitch.
[19:12.970 --> 19:14.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, and that's right.
[19:14.730 --> 19:17.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Don't call up and pledge money because I don't think we're doing that this year.
[19:17.710 --> 19:20.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, if they pledge now, I'm willing to give away a free coffee cup.
[19:20.690 --> 19:20.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: There you go.
[19:21.070 --> 19:22.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, the phones are lighting up.
[19:22.330 --> 19:22.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[19:22.790 --> 19:23.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's amazing.
[19:23.610 --> 19:23.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Unbelievable.
[19:24.570 --> 19:25.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've got a styrofoam cup.
[19:25.830 --> 19:28.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're just so into doing this that we just do it on our own.
[19:29.010 --> 19:29.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's right.
[19:29.810 --> 19:31.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, we walk down the street collecting money sometimes.
[19:32.470 --> 19:32.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Unbelievable.
[19:33.830 --> 19:37.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: What else is in the news up there in the New York Pacifica Nation region?
[19:37.610 --> 19:38.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you said you're going to Atlanta, right?
[19:39.110 --> 19:39.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Atlanta, Georgia.
[19:39.970 --> 19:42.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you see a lot of truckers on the road, right?
[19:42.910 --> 19:44.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: I see nothing but truckers on the road.
[19:44.150 --> 19:44.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: You see nothing but truckers.
[19:45.050 --> 19:45.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know what?
[19:45.470 --> 19:46.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're going to be seeing more of them.
[19:46.550 --> 19:47.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what they're going to be doing soon?
[19:47.670 --> 19:48.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's that?
[19:48.110 --> 19:49.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're going to be on the Internet.
[19:49.770 --> 19:50.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: While they're driving?
[19:50.750 --> 19:51.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Truckers on the Internet in Atlanta?
[19:51.970 --> 19:52.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Truckers on the Internet.
[19:53.150 --> 19:54.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: What does Atlanta have to do with it?
[19:54.410 --> 19:56.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this is just where the story's based out of.
[19:56.170 --> 19:57.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think Atlanta's a big hub of truckers.
[19:58.190 --> 19:58.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[19:58.590 --> 20:00.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was a good try to segue.
[20:00.370 --> 20:00.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I tried.
[20:00.870 --> 20:04.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: You didn't mean they're going to be surfing the web as they're passing me in the fast lane?
[20:04.290 --> 20:15.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, maybe not necessarily like that, but instead of using CBs and waiting and phone calls, they'll now punch up email rather than waiting by phone, and they'll be using global positioning systems, and they'll be getting traffic advice.
[20:15.970 --> 20:18.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: All those things are supposedly coming shortly.
[20:19.230 --> 20:20.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'll be reducing their costs.
[20:20.910 --> 20:23.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: They'll, you know, be able to go around.
[20:23.410 --> 20:27.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: The truck itself will have a maintenance program running.
[20:28.250 --> 20:31.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: And all kinds of monitoring of employees so that, you know, the truck's competing.
[20:31.890 --> 20:32.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Most definitely.
[20:32.810 --> 20:34.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where they are, you know, what they'll be doing.
[20:34.790 --> 20:38.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: And also, maybe four more recreational things I'm reading here that says...
[20:38.730 --> 20:39.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Solitary.
[20:39.370 --> 20:46.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, no, at night they can go online, they can chat, they can email, they can do whatever they want.
[20:46.550 --> 20:52.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, maybe instead of, you know, hanging out and drinking coffee all night, they'll actually be in maybe AOL chat rooms or maybe on IRC and hanging out.
[20:52.910 --> 20:57.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, well, it's a benefit to all of us to have the trucking community be able to share.
[20:57.930 --> 21:01.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, all right, I'm being sarcastic, but I've met some very interesting...
[21:01.510 --> 21:03.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my God, what the hell are they thinking?
[21:04.470 --> 21:05.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: I should stay away.
[21:05.970 --> 21:07.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Truckers should be trucking, okay?
[21:07.350 --> 21:08.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what truckers do.
[21:08.490 --> 21:12.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've met some very interesting truckers in my travels, and they tend to be some nice people.
[21:13.090 --> 21:16.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, when they're finished trucking, they go home and they hop on IRC then.
[21:16.470 --> 21:17.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, that's true.
[21:17.370 --> 21:20.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I mean, should we be IRC-ing right now or on the radio?
[21:20.390 --> 21:20.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course not.
[21:20.970 --> 21:21.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Probably not.
[21:21.550 --> 21:22.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're not, are we?
[21:22.910 --> 21:24.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, not at all.
[21:24.310 --> 21:26.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm idle at home, actually, when I sent my away message.
[21:27.230 --> 21:29.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi, everybody up there on Pound Off the Hook.
[21:30.770 --> 21:34.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, and one of the concerns, of course, of the truckers is that they don't like to be watched.
[21:34.450 --> 21:36.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't like the satellite systems.
[21:36.430 --> 21:43.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: But on a positive note, Dell and Compaq introduced a new line of computers, complete with coffee spout and mud flaps with the little naked ladies on the back.
[21:43.550 --> 21:44.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeehaw, really?
[21:44.270 --> 21:45.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just like the ones that, yeah, exactly.
[21:45.830 --> 21:46.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: That would be the trucker model.
[21:47.190 --> 21:47.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's not bad at all.
[21:47.990 --> 21:51.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: With a big Mac emblem on the front, so look towards that.
[21:51.470 --> 21:53.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's M-A-C-K, not M-A-C.
[21:54.030 --> 21:55.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, you've got to watch out for the copyright.
[21:56.290 --> 21:58.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's Mac with the bulldog, not Mac with the apple.
[21:58.110 --> 21:58.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: There you go.
[21:58.970 --> 22:01.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't understand how people can live in this, like, part of the country.
[22:01.970 --> 22:07.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I'm standing here in Alabama, it's 7.20 our time here, because we're in central time.
[22:07.450 --> 22:11.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it's, you know, the sun's going down, kind of, and it's still hot.
[22:11.290 --> 22:15.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm standing next to some sort of a swamp where all kinds of, like, tropical noises are coming out of them.
[22:15.890 --> 22:17.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, so you're just about anywhere in Alabama.
[22:17.230 --> 22:20.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: I expect to see gators coming up the creek here.
[22:20.630 --> 22:21.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're in Jurassic Park, it seems.
[22:21.970 --> 22:27.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: And now I've got all these, like, little tiny gnats swarming around my face, which is really not making me very happy at all.
[22:28.230 --> 22:30.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the little fluorescent white hasn't even come on in the space zone yet.
[22:31.130 --> 22:31.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, that's okay.
[22:31.610 --> 22:33.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've got another 40 minutes for them to be ready.
[22:33.330 --> 22:35.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I realize that, and I'm afraid what's going to happen when that light comes on.
[22:37.050 --> 22:37.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, gee.
[22:37.510 --> 22:43.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you're going to get to Atlanta, and then you're going to start wondering about when your Sprint PCS coverage kicks in, right?
[22:43.410 --> 22:46.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I know there won't be any Sprint PCS coverage in Atlanta.
[22:46.570 --> 22:47.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Until December.
[22:47.110 --> 22:48.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you wait there.
[22:48.530 --> 22:50.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I will have GFM coverage of a sort.
[22:50.470 --> 22:50.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's true.
[22:51.530 --> 22:53.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: This has worked out mostly.
[22:53.250 --> 22:57.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: In most parts of the country, I've had one or the other, which is, you know, it's a good reason to carry two phones.
[22:58.010 --> 23:00.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, most people won't want to have two portable phones.
[23:00.270 --> 23:03.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, many people also get the dual-band analog and digitals.
[23:03.370 --> 23:05.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, no, that would work a little bit better if you had that.
[23:05.470 --> 23:07.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I'll tell you, you know, looking at some of the...
[23:07.810 --> 23:14.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have this massive Sprint PCS advertising campaign in California, and they have posters and banners all over the place, too.
[23:14.550 --> 23:23.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: And one of the things, especially in light of last week's show, which really made me laugh, was a Sprint PCS poster that said, it doesn't get any clearer than this.
[23:24.730 --> 23:29.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: My God, if that's the case, I shudder to think what we're in for.
[23:32.090 --> 23:32.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[23:32.730 --> 23:34.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, how do you feel about taking some calls?
[23:34.430 --> 23:35.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have, like, another 30 minutes.
[23:36.050 --> 23:36.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you want to take calls this early?
[23:37.230 --> 23:39.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, do you have any other news items that you wanted to get into?
[23:39.910 --> 23:41.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, let's see what we have here.
[23:41.250 --> 23:45.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: How about we could pick and choose, and maybe if something piques your interest, we can actually...
[23:45.370 --> 23:46.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: That one right there on the top.
[23:46.510 --> 23:49.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, on the top one, it says, do you know a net junkie?
[23:49.290 --> 23:51.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you know someone who spends too much time on the Internet?
[23:51.350 --> 23:54.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you know someone who'd rather be in the chat room than drinking coffee with their friends?
[23:54.570 --> 23:55.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, not at all.
[23:55.930 --> 23:57.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, if you do, you can get help.
[23:57.810 --> 23:58.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And where's the help?
[23:58.530 --> 23:58.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Online.
[23:59.090 --> 23:59.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, there you go.
[24:01.090 --> 24:01.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[24:01.690 --> 24:03.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the AA beer meeting.
[24:03.290 --> 24:03.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[24:03.450 --> 24:03.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Beer meeting.
[24:04.330 --> 24:07.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: And someone already made the analogy, isn't it like holding AA meetings in a bar?
[24:08.130 --> 24:08.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: There you go.
[24:08.370 --> 24:13.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, no, it's not quite, says a representative from the Center for Online Addiction at the University of Pittsburgh.
[24:14.450 --> 24:15.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, wait a second.
[24:15.070 --> 24:15.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: These people get funding?
[24:16.190 --> 24:16.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: I suppose.
[24:16.810 --> 24:21.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: I suppose they do for helping people that are addicted to the Internet and online.
[24:22.090 --> 24:29.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: And instead of, you know, totally cutting themselves off, they think they should, you know, use it in spurts and only use it for time that they should.
[24:29.630 --> 24:36.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: And for those folks at home, let me go over a few points that some psychologists are suggesting.
[24:36.690 --> 24:37.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alter your habits.
[24:38.070 --> 24:39.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the first thing you should do.
[24:39.370 --> 24:44.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you're addicted, you should try to come home, eat dinner with your family, or do some other type of activity other than the computer.
[24:44.710 --> 24:45.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Use a stop clock.
[24:45.970 --> 24:46.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe an egg timer, perhaps.
[24:47.190 --> 24:48.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: They tell you this on the computer?
[24:48.710 --> 24:48.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[24:49.150 --> 24:50.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: On the computer while they're telling you.
[24:50.530 --> 24:51.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to go online and do this.
[24:51.770 --> 24:51.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[24:51.910 --> 24:56.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: How many people think they have an IRC window open at the same time while they're on this?
[24:56.690 --> 24:58.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cut back on chat and games.
[24:58.190 --> 25:01.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Young says addicts should avoid chat rooms, games, and other areas of the network.
[25:01.190 --> 25:02.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Interaction can make a person forget time.
[25:03.170 --> 25:04.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about muds and things like that?
[25:04.870 --> 25:05.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's okay.
[25:05.250 --> 25:05.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's okay.
[25:05.870 --> 25:06.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can do that.
[25:06.530 --> 25:08.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: It'd be kind of cool to put this inside a mud.
[25:09.230 --> 25:10.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's the addiction mud.
[25:10.610 --> 25:10.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Welcome.
[25:11.390 --> 25:12.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, it's health.
[25:12.430 --> 25:17.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: A section that you walk into, and all of a sudden there's this guy trying to tell you what you're doing is bad, like some sort of religious person.
[25:17.650 --> 25:18.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: You should log off right now.
[25:19.170 --> 25:19.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[25:19.510 --> 25:21.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: And lastly, what you should do is create a diary.
[25:21.910 --> 25:23.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's called Life Before the Web.
[25:23.810 --> 25:27.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: So list the type of things that you used to do before, you know, like hiking, dating.
[25:27.910 --> 25:30.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Gopher, FTP, Telnet.
[25:30.470 --> 25:30.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[25:32.930 --> 25:33.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or those were the days.
[25:33.950 --> 25:35.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: The good old days of Mosaic.
[25:36.510 --> 25:37.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: I miss it.
[25:37.670 --> 25:49.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, I found an old release of it, and I installed it, and I started comparing it to my Netscape, and sadly enough, I opted for Navigator 4.5.
[25:49.950 --> 25:50.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, say it ain't so.
[25:50.910 --> 25:51.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, well.
[25:52.450 --> 25:54.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, let's see what else we got in the news.
[25:54.230 --> 25:57.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we have the... I know Isaac's more of an encryption buff.
[25:57.330 --> 25:58.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Would you like to go over?
[25:58.870 --> 26:02.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I think there are many people far more into encryption than I.
[26:02.190 --> 26:05.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I was just thinking... I know you might have heard it was actually on the news.
[26:05.330 --> 26:09.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: IBM is releasing a new way to encrypt things, maybe a better way.
[26:10.330 --> 26:13.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: IBM to announce a new method for sending encrypted data on the net.
[26:14.750 --> 26:16.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: International Business Machines Corporation.
[26:16.310 --> 26:17.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't hear that very much anymore.
[26:17.970 --> 26:18.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: No.
[26:18.050 --> 26:19.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just the acronym, IBM.
[26:19.250 --> 26:23.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess they don't want to be known as international business machines, like calculators and stuff like that.
[26:23.090 --> 26:23.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it's just IBM's better.
[26:23.990 --> 26:24.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's true.
[26:25.030 --> 26:28.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Announced Monday, a new method for sending information securely over the Internet.
[26:29.030 --> 26:30.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: We lock it in a little box.
[26:31.490 --> 26:34.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Further protecting transactions on the global network from prying eyes.
[26:34.630 --> 26:43.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: The new method promises to address a potential vulnerability in encryption systems used by many websites to protect credit card numbers and other personal information while en route over the Internet.
[26:45.570 --> 26:48.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: That flaw, discovered in June...
[26:48.330 --> 26:49.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: You've heard about this flaw, right?
[26:49.890 --> 26:55.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where someone could actually keep sending like a million requests to a web browser, an SSL connection or whatever?
[26:56.010 --> 26:56.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: And finally...
[26:56.690 --> 26:57.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: And finally...
[26:57.170 --> 26:57.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, after a million.
[26:57.930 --> 26:59.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I shop online a lot.
[27:00.130 --> 27:00.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[27:00.450 --> 27:01.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel, do you shop online a lot as well?
[27:02.010 --> 27:04.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, my way of looking at it is this.
[27:04.630 --> 27:11.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it may be kind of risky, but if something happens, you'll know what the risk was, you'll know where the weak points are, and you won't be liable for them.
[27:12.190 --> 27:15.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, you know, as long as you watch your bills, it can be kind of fun.
[27:15.490 --> 27:17.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: And plus, the savings are just astronomical.
[27:18.890 --> 27:32.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Immediately prior to the SNET ad, I'd heard a statistic that a full one-fifth of people online shop online, which is kind of scary, although very lucrative for the business persons.
[27:32.130 --> 27:39.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: I did hear a story, though, about a woman who ran up this huge Internet gambling bill on her credit card.
[27:39.730 --> 27:42.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: And she's suing the credit card now because she says that it's illegal.
[27:42.930 --> 27:44.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: She shouldn't have been allowed to do it.
[27:44.790 --> 27:53.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: She should go to that online addiction thing, I think, and find out her online addiction and be told that she's... the gambling and online addiction all in the same room.
[27:54.170 --> 27:55.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: So anyways, I'm sorry, Isaac.
[27:55.010 --> 27:59.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm trying to find the non-propaganda section of this printout.
[27:59.770 --> 28:00.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: The non-IBM...
[28:00.810 --> 28:00.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[28:01.430 --> 28:02.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I...
[28:02.110 --> 28:02.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[28:02.550 --> 28:10.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: The new system is dubbed the Kramer Schaup, S-H-O-U-P, crypto system after the two researchers who developed it.
[28:11.470 --> 28:12.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kramer...
[28:12.030 --> 28:12.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, Kramer Schaup.
[28:12.970 --> 28:13.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[28:13.710 --> 28:18.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: It works by doubly encoding the information being sent out by a website using the system.
[28:18.450 --> 28:29.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not only does it encode the information being sent, but it also encodes the server computer's response to spurious messages, such as the ones a hacker might use, thereby preventing a hacker from learning anything about the system.
[28:31.210 --> 28:34.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not even going to bother commenting on that, but...
[28:34.310 --> 28:35.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: My God, I can't believe that's an animal.
[28:38.950 --> 28:40.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: I swear to God, it sounds like...
[28:40.250 --> 28:40.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Nice ad-lib.
[28:41.030 --> 28:48.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: It sounds like a freight train is approaching, but it's actually like one of those heat bug things that, like, you know, start up in mid-summer, except they're here all the time.
[28:49.410 --> 28:50.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's, like, somewhere in the swamp.
[28:50.990 --> 28:53.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, this thing must be about eight feet tall, whatever it is.
[28:53.750 --> 29:01.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: Folks, this is your host putting himself in the line of danger so that he can go on the air tonight and impart his wisdom to all of us.
[29:01.410 --> 29:02.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: They expect this phone.
[29:02.610 --> 29:04.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: They expect this phone right next to the swamp, too.
[29:04.210 --> 29:04.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, then, that's a great thing.
[29:04.890 --> 29:07.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: They put it out by the road, but no, they have to put it over here.
[29:07.370 --> 29:14.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: You see, they expect somebody to, like, be bitten by an insect and then keel over, and then the telephone guy comes by, picks up the wallet, and, you know...
[29:14.150 --> 29:15.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my God, look at that.
[29:16.210 --> 29:20.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm underneath, I just realized, I'm underneath a huge, huge Exxon sign, and that thing's going to turn on.
[29:21.890 --> 29:26.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: When that happens, I'll see bugs of all races and trees coming in the way, swarming around me.
[29:27.110 --> 29:27.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, let's, uh...
[29:27.930 --> 29:28.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's the insect's due in.
[29:28.710 --> 29:30.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's get in what we can before I...
[29:30.470 --> 29:31.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Whatever happens.
[29:31.110 --> 29:33.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's actually a trap, and that's how they feed the natives there.
[29:33.770 --> 29:35.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: They wait for tourists to stop by, use the payphone.
[29:36.170 --> 29:39.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: They turn on the sign, and now you're going to get sacrificed to the land of the lost.
[29:39.230 --> 29:40.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it would appear so.
[29:42.130 --> 29:46.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, interesting things, no new updates on the Kevin Mitnick case.
[29:46.490 --> 29:57.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: The Supreme Court appeal was filed that basically is an appeal of the refusal of the judge to allow Kevin a bail hearing.
[29:57.750 --> 30:01.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so that's going all the way to the state Supreme Court, which is going to be very interesting.
[30:01.270 --> 30:06.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: That was the thing I asked his attorney when he did the CNBC, or I'm sorry, MSNBC chat.
[30:06.330 --> 30:06.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[30:06.750 --> 30:09.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he had mentioned that he was going to do that, so I'm glad to hear that he's going to do that.
[30:09.550 --> 30:12.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that document will be available shortly on KevinMitnick.com.
[30:12.810 --> 30:14.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: That has been filed.
[30:16.490 --> 30:20.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Interesting and kind of disturbing thing, I was talking to him the other day on the phone.
[30:20.970 --> 30:30.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: They had won, he and his, I guess, you know, wing of the prison had won some sort of competition for being the neatest block or something like that.
[30:30.830 --> 30:34.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: It wasn't really a competition they entered into, you know, wholeheartedly, I guess, but it's something that they do.
[30:35.170 --> 30:37.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so the reward for that is you get to stay up until 2 a.m.
[30:38.090 --> 30:38.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[30:39.690 --> 30:50.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so I was talking to him rather late at night, and this other inmate got into an argument with him about the phone, saying that, you know, he was supposed to use the phone at that time.
[30:51.350 --> 30:55.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, he had actually gotten the phone time from another inmate he had traded with somebody else.
[30:55.590 --> 30:57.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: So this whole argument ensued.
[30:58.110 --> 31:10.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it was very reminiscent of the whole Bernie S thing of a few years ago, where if you recall, Bernie S, you know, got the stuffing beaten out of him by an inmate who was outraged at the fact that he was using the phone when the inmate wanted to.
[31:11.450 --> 31:14.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: In this case, though, you know, it was perfectly justified.
[31:14.810 --> 31:22.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And unfortunately, when I was listening to Kevin on the phone, all I heard was the phone being disconnected, and I didn't hear from Kevin for another day.
[31:22.830 --> 31:23.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[31:23.830 --> 31:25.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's very disturbing to have these things happen.
[31:25.730 --> 31:30.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: We forget a lot of times that he's actually sitting there in jail and that these horrible things happen and these horrible people are there.
[31:31.250 --> 31:33.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's something that we can never lose sight of.
[31:33.650 --> 31:39.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've talked to a number of people over the last week that knew something about the Kevin case.
[31:39.710 --> 31:46.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: But without any exception, I think they were all pretty surprised to learn that he was still in jail.
[31:46.390 --> 31:48.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, why don't people know that he's still in jail?
[31:48.430 --> 31:49.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have to get the word out more.
[31:50.010 --> 31:52.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have to make sure people know, hey, this guy is still in prison.
[31:52.510 --> 31:58.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: They say, oh, Kevin Mitnick, that's the guy who, you know, hacked Shimomura, even though he's never been charged with that or that's never been proven.
[31:58.570 --> 32:01.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's very strong doubt as to whether or not that ever happened.
[32:02.290 --> 32:03.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's still in prison.
[32:03.630 --> 32:06.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, the case has not yet gone to trial.
[32:06.030 --> 32:08.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: He has not allowed visitors except for immediate family.
[32:09.090 --> 32:11.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he has never been given a bail hearing.
[32:12.430 --> 32:14.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: So those things have to be brought out.
[32:14.950 --> 32:17.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Those things have to be constantly pounded into people's heads.
[32:17.750 --> 32:25.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, and this film is just one of the things, but it's only one part of a long chapter that's been happening.
[32:25.650 --> 32:27.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, all the times I've talked to Kevin that similar things happen.
[32:28.050 --> 32:32.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been talking to him and then I've heard a voice, you know, come along and he's like, he just had to hang up.
[32:32.170 --> 32:33.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, oh my gosh, what's going on?
[32:33.390 --> 32:39.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Another time I talked to Kevin and he had to put the phone down and go get ice because they only had like a daily ice run.
[32:39.310 --> 32:39.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[32:39.790 --> 32:42.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I thought that, you know, I, I, you know, got a big lump in my throat.
[32:42.550 --> 32:43.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, man, that's pretty bad.
[32:43.750 --> 32:45.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like you get ice like today.
[32:45.490 --> 32:46.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is, oh, got to stop.
[32:47.010 --> 32:47.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is ice time.
[32:47.970 --> 32:50.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you don't get your ice, you're, you know, that's it for you for the day.
[32:50.810 --> 32:51.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: No ice.
[32:51.130 --> 32:52.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: There are other things too.
[32:52.290 --> 32:57.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Like a couple of weeks ago, the air conditioning was going on and going off, on, off for days.
[32:57.490 --> 33:02.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: And of course, everybody got sick because you expose yourself to those temperature differences in a couple of days.
[33:02.050 --> 33:03.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: You definitely feel the effects of it.
[33:04.030 --> 33:04.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: So everybody was sick.
[33:05.270 --> 33:13.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just a couple of days ago when, when Kevin had his lawyer visiting, they kept him waiting for about 55 minutes, which meant that he only had five minutes left of the hour that he was supposed to speak to him.
[33:14.430 --> 33:16.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, of course that wasn't very helpful.
[33:16.690 --> 33:18.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: So these little things constantly happen.
[33:18.730 --> 33:21.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: And with any one of us, I think it reached the boiling point pretty quickly.
[33:21.810 --> 33:22.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know I certainly would.
[33:23.130 --> 33:27.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, after three and a half years, you know, you can only, I don't know how much anybody can take.
[33:27.730 --> 33:32.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: And hopefully the Supreme Court document filing and, you know, everything else that's going on.
[33:32.370 --> 33:42.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't know, I'm hoping that this, you know, there'll be an end in sight because regardless of how, you know, the movie turns out and how it started and stops or, or whatever, you know, we, we certainly got to get them out.
[33:42.790 --> 33:43.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[33:43.170 --> 33:49.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have to focus our attention on that and not, you know, not forget about the fact that, you know, this guy is still sitting in jail.
[33:49.830 --> 33:57.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's never been convicted or accused of doing anything violent, malicious, vindictive, despite, you know, the reputation he's gotten.
[33:57.690 --> 34:06.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've talked to so many people about this who are, you know, the experts in the field and nobody can point to a single thing that he's done that is malicious in any way.
[34:06.270 --> 34:06.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[34:07.150 --> 34:11.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, uh, that's something I think that needs to be, uh, to be looked at very closely.
[34:11.490 --> 34:19.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, perhaps the same party that managed to, uh, aim this hurricane at the movie production could conjure up a tornado or an earthquake or something.
[34:19.250 --> 34:22.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, just that side prison wall falls away.
[34:23.210 --> 34:24.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: It, you know, it'd be...
[34:24.490 --> 34:26.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've got to be careful what we ask for nowadays, Isaac.
[34:26.470 --> 34:27.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: You really need to be careful.
[34:27.770 --> 34:29.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just, I mean, maybe you should take that back.
[34:29.330 --> 34:32.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you do that, you're going to get a lot of, uh, really dangerous, uh...
[34:32.290 --> 34:32.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[34:33.130 --> 34:37.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: ...prisoners that are running around here, because those are the people he's locked up with are the really dangerous people.
[34:37.610 --> 34:37.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[34:37.930 --> 34:45.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, you know, it's a pre-trial facility, so, uh, you know, that these people have not yet been, uh, been given a try there.
[34:45.570 --> 34:49.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're all assumed innocent, which is kind of, kind of funny, but it's true.
[34:49.790 --> 34:53.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, they're all presumed innocent, and, uh, unfortunately, they're all in prison.
[34:53.790 --> 34:54.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[34:54.330 --> 34:57.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, Claude has given me the signal that there's about 10 calls waiting on the line.
[34:57.230 --> 34:58.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you want to start taking calls?
[34:58.170 --> 34:58.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[34:58.350 --> 35:01.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: So our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[35:01.770 --> 35:03.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're listening to Off the Hook, Emmanuel.
[35:03.270 --> 35:05.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Here, Isaac and Phil over there in New York.
[35:05.690 --> 35:07.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, I guess you're over here, and I'm over there.
[35:07.790 --> 35:07.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[35:08.110 --> 35:13.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I'm standing at a payphone somewhere in Alabama, being eaten by mosquitoes, and hearing strange sounds.
[35:14.650 --> 35:15.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do we have our first call on the line?
[35:16.490 --> 35:16.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[35:17.270 --> 35:17.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, go ahead.
[35:18.030 --> 35:18.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[35:19.890 --> 35:20.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello?
[35:20.630 --> 35:20.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[35:21.950 --> 35:22.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speak up, please.
[35:23.690 --> 35:24.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello?
[35:24.590 --> 35:25.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is B.A.R.?
[35:25.710 --> 35:26.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, it is.
[35:26.250 --> 35:27.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, it is, and you are on the air.
[35:28.490 --> 35:29.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I didn't want to be on the air.
[35:29.670 --> 35:31.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wanted to speak to some... ask somebody, uh, a question.
[35:32.050 --> 35:32.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: What do you want to ask?
[35:32.810 --> 35:33.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we can help you.
[35:33.970 --> 35:38.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, um, it's about a civilian complaint review board, and, uh...
[35:38.870 --> 35:40.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: A civilian complaint review board?
[35:40.790 --> 35:42.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: You probably want to... who is it you want to speak to?
[35:43.510 --> 35:50.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I wanted to find out there if anybody could help me, um, with the civilian complaint review board and, uh, filing a complaint against the police.
[35:50.010 --> 35:51.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is the office number?
[35:51.890 --> 35:53.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you're going to file a complaint against the police?
[35:53.370 --> 35:53.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: What did they do?
[35:55.310 --> 35:55.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here's your form.
[35:56.110 --> 35:57.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: This person doesn't want to be on the air, so let's...
[35:57.770 --> 35:59.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't want to be on the air.
[35:59.290 --> 36:00.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, next call.
[36:00.310 --> 36:01.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: What is the office number?
[36:03.250 --> 36:03.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good question.
[36:04.070 --> 36:04.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's go to the next call.
[36:05.350 --> 36:06.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: You don't know the office number?
[36:06.690 --> 36:06.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[36:07.150 --> 36:08.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think I know the office number.
[36:08.650 --> 36:09.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you've got another call.
[36:09.230 --> 36:10.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think it's 209-2800.
[36:11.530 --> 36:15.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: So if that person wants to call tomorrow, speak to somebody there.
[36:15.490 --> 36:19.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm thinking about making your show sound as semi-competent as I can.
[36:19.710 --> 36:21.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: So you've got another caller on the air.
[36:21.670 --> 36:23.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, does this person want to be on the air?
[36:23.510 --> 36:23.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no.
[36:24.070 --> 36:24.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: How does this guy...
[36:24.410 --> 36:25.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, he wants to.
[36:25.690 --> 36:26.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not sure that any of...
[36:26.770 --> 36:27.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, never mind.
[36:29.190 --> 36:30.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nice studio you have here.
[36:31.970 --> 36:33.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nice new studio on Wall Street.
[36:35.090 --> 36:37.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Our studio is located on Wall Street, that's correct.
[36:37.830 --> 36:40.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: The word here, I hope, was used in error.
[36:40.730 --> 36:42.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, you're not in...
[36:42.150 --> 36:43.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's actually on the phone.
[36:43.910 --> 36:44.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[36:44.470 --> 36:46.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, where... I hope he's not around here.
[36:47.270 --> 36:48.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's on your mind?
[36:48.310 --> 36:50.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, I just wanted to mention that...
[36:50.230 --> 36:54.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember when I told you that there was a messenger service called NYNEX?
[36:54.690 --> 36:55.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you did.
[36:55.530 --> 36:57.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now there's a band called...
[36:57.990 --> 36:59.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, how about that?
[36:59.470 --> 37:00.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: That is exciting news, indeed.
[37:01.490 --> 37:03.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, also, I'd like to know...
[37:03.110 --> 37:05.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to mention that if you want to...
[37:05.750 --> 37:07.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you on a GTE payphone, by the way?
[37:07.390 --> 37:07.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just curious.
[37:08.110 --> 37:09.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, actually, I'm on a Bell South payphone.
[37:09.770 --> 37:12.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the funny thing about this payphone is that it's...
[37:12.790 --> 37:15.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm in 334 area code, which is strange enough as it is.
[37:15.970 --> 37:23.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it says at the very bottom, this payphone is not provided by LEC, which stands for Local Exchange Carrier.
[37:25.710 --> 37:27.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you wonder who provides the payphone.
[37:28.390 --> 37:31.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: It has a Bell South sign on it, and yet...
[37:31.450 --> 37:33.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: It has Bell South all over it, but you know, it's really a COCOT.
[37:33.970 --> 37:35.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: You hear it redialing in the background.
[37:35.830 --> 37:36.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's curious.
[37:36.210 --> 37:38.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: You hear that crazy little computer lady saying thank you.
[37:38.090 --> 37:39.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the payphones are like that in Florida.
[37:39.810 --> 37:40.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, um...
[37:40.530 --> 37:41.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're like that in Florida.
[37:41.530 --> 37:43.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not the old-fashioned Bell technology, unfortunately.
[37:44.350 --> 37:49.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, Dave, I'd just like to mention that if you want to make free phone calls, you can just have AT&T billed to a third number.
[37:50.190 --> 37:50.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: They will not call for...
[37:50.950 --> 37:51.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.
[37:52.110 --> 37:53.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Move on to the next phone call.
[37:53.810 --> 37:56.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Claude, if you could walk back here, please.
[37:56.610 --> 37:56.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[37:57.030 --> 37:58.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: 12-209-2900.
[37:58.150 --> 37:58.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[37:58.470 --> 37:58.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[37:59.470 --> 38:01.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, COCOT, you heard redialing.
[38:01.270 --> 38:02.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's...
[38:02.490 --> 38:04.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a RealAudio person.
[38:04.270 --> 38:04.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[38:04.910 --> 38:05.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: RealAudio.
[38:05.490 --> 38:06.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are you calling from RealAudio land?
[38:06.970 --> 38:07.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I'm in Toronto.
[38:08.030 --> 38:08.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Toronto, Canada.
[38:09.170 --> 38:09.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, how are you doing?
[38:09.710 --> 38:10.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: What a nice place.
[38:10.350 --> 38:12.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we should get a map and put, like, pegs on the...
[38:12.610 --> 38:14.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are you on Young Street or Queen Street?
[38:15.010 --> 38:16.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm actually in Etobicoke.
[38:16.450 --> 38:17.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not exactly in Toronto.
[38:17.370 --> 38:18.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, okay.
[38:18.390 --> 38:21.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I'm on Off The Hook, channel Off The Hook as Anakin.
[38:22.370 --> 38:23.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: So just shout out to them.
[38:23.470 --> 38:27.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was also calling just about the new Back Orifice program.
[38:27.530 --> 38:27.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[38:27.950 --> 38:29.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, released by the CDC.
[38:30.070 --> 38:31.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a pretty neat program, by the way.
[38:31.710 --> 38:32.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've used it a couple times.
[38:33.290 --> 38:33.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[38:33.630 --> 38:34.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or so I haven't told it anyways.
[38:34.770 --> 38:40.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just wondering, like, what's the legality of that and what they're really doing to prevent stuff like that?
[38:40.370 --> 38:41.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like the feds and stuff.
[38:41.970 --> 38:47.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, the feds, and I guess I'd say Microsoft, is more of an...
[38:47.350 --> 38:48.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's an accurate term who really cares about this.
[38:49.030 --> 38:49.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah.
[38:49.550 --> 38:57.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you practice standard, you know, common sense user guides, you won't even have the problem.
[38:57.150 --> 38:59.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you should never install any software other than Microsoft.
[38:59.110 --> 38:59.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, yeah.
[38:59.950 --> 39:00.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, well, of course.
[39:01.010 --> 39:03.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, only from the evil empire should you install anything.
[39:03.510 --> 39:04.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's not against the law.
[39:05.110 --> 39:06.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's not an unlawful program.
[39:06.810 --> 39:07.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just...
[39:07.170 --> 39:09.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: All it does is kind of open up a way to control someone's computer.
[39:09.910 --> 39:12.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: It could be used as a diagnostic tool over a network.
[39:12.530 --> 39:21.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the idea behind it is basically, hi, Microsoft, we've been telling you about all these bugs and problems that have existed for so long.
[39:21.550 --> 39:30.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: You haven't done anything, so we're going to push you into action by releasing this piece of software that allows anybody anywhere to take advantage of these flaws.
[39:30.910 --> 39:31.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[39:31.250 --> 39:38.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you can either fix them now or have to pay individual companies or individuals when serious security problems occur.
[39:39.230 --> 39:47.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Either you're going to be paying monetarily or with bad press, although they control the press now, so I'm not sure if bad press is going to be a problem.
[39:47.410 --> 39:48.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think MSNBC is going to be...
[39:48.810 --> 39:50.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, they're not going to be airing too many...
[39:50.330 --> 39:53.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have they released anything past that first press release, they said?
[39:54.050 --> 39:54.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: The CDC or...
[39:54.950 --> 39:55.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where they said it's not a major problem.
[39:55.650 --> 39:56.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: CDC or Microsoft.
[39:57.130 --> 39:58.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Microsoft are you talking about?
[39:58.290 --> 39:58.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Microsoft?
[39:58.490 --> 40:01.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think they've said anything else as far as that goes.
[40:01.810 --> 40:02.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: I might be wrong about this.
[40:02.830 --> 40:04.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: You might want to go to the CDC website.
[40:04.790 --> 40:05.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I didn't see anything today.
[40:05.750 --> 40:06.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: I went...
[40:06.170 --> 40:07.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: For the folks at home, it's...
[40:07.390 --> 40:09.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Other than that, they have t-shirts out, I think.
[40:09.610 --> 40:10.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is their address?
[40:10.670 --> 40:11.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not CDC.com.
[40:11.970 --> 40:13.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it's cultdeadcow.com.
[40:13.530 --> 40:15.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or I think backorifice.com will work as well.
[40:16.130 --> 40:16.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[40:16.410 --> 40:17.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, they're registered now.
[40:17.210 --> 40:17.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's very good.
[40:18.350 --> 40:23.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: So basically, if you use this program in a malicious way, are you doing anything illegal or...
[40:23.510 --> 40:28.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I would say if you're actively going on someone else's computer, it's the same thing as trespassing or destroying data.
[40:28.130 --> 40:38.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: If your intent is to acquire passwords or if your intent is to compromise somebody else's system, yes, it can be perceived as an illegal act perpetrated against...
[40:38.290 --> 40:49.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: What a lot of people don't realize is that programs like this and magazines like 2600 are released, which, you know, allow you to use knowledge in one of many ways.
[40:49.910 --> 40:54.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: And one of the ways you can use knowledge, one of the ways you can use programs is maliciously.
[40:54.310 --> 41:02.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: That does not mean that 2600 or CDC or the LOFT or whoever is saying, go out there and commit crimes.
[41:02.110 --> 41:06.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, we're just going to wink at you and say, oh, yeah, it's okay, all in the interest of knowledge.
[41:06.510 --> 41:08.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's not what we're after at all.
[41:08.610 --> 41:17.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: What we're after is education, showing people how things work, embarrassing people who refuse to fix things that are broken and providing security holes for everybody to exploit.
[41:18.670 --> 41:25.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, you know, don't mistake this to mean that, you know, this program is your ticket to go out and destroy whatever you can.
[41:25.410 --> 41:27.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Basically, it's a wake-up call.
[41:27.370 --> 41:27.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[41:27.610 --> 41:31.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a way of saying, you know, this is wide open, don't use this.
[41:31.510 --> 41:35.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it says on the website that it's a so-called remote administration tool.
[41:35.410 --> 41:35.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it is.
[41:36.090 --> 41:37.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm sure it's a very good tool.
[41:37.190 --> 41:37.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can use it like that.
[41:37.930 --> 41:38.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Very good tool, yeah.
[41:38.410 --> 41:39.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can use it in many ways.
[41:39.230 --> 41:42.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I probably wouldn't do that on any of my machines because you never know.
[41:42.650 --> 41:46.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, there's probably obviously a built-in default password that we don't even know about that.
[41:47.250 --> 41:49.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, the thing is with this, you have to know someone's IP address.
[41:49.910 --> 41:50.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[41:50.170 --> 41:51.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, unless you know that, it's not...
[41:51.570 --> 41:53.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, gee, that's not all that difficult.
[41:53.350 --> 41:53.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know.
[41:53.950 --> 41:57.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, right now I'm just getting all the IPs from channel off the hook.
[41:57.730 --> 41:58.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, there you go.
[41:58.430 --> 42:02.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: If anyone has a back orifice server installed, I'll let you know.
[42:02.870 --> 42:03.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll be nice.
[42:03.570 --> 42:03.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: Excellent.
[42:04.230 --> 42:04.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I'm going to let you know.
[42:05.230 --> 42:06.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Leave .mil alone.
[42:06.890 --> 42:07.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: They've asked me to say that.
[42:07.670 --> 42:10.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that should be taken for granted at any...
[42:10.690 --> 42:11.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're very upset.
[42:11.970 --> 42:13.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: They've got a lot of things on their mind this week.
[42:13.790 --> 42:15.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, just leave them alone.
[42:16.030 --> 42:17.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've got to let them do their work.
[42:17.730 --> 42:20.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, have you guys actually found the filming locations for Kevin?
[42:20.590 --> 42:22.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't listen to the show last week, so I don't know.
[42:22.090 --> 42:24.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, there's a hurricane descending upon it right now.
[42:24.210 --> 42:26.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, we know where they are.
[42:26.810 --> 42:31.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the more important thing is, well, the rescuers know where they are once the hurricane hits.
[42:31.910 --> 42:32.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: I would hate to see...
[42:32.510 --> 42:33.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: The floodwaters recede.
[42:33.610 --> 42:33.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[42:33.830 --> 42:34.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, the camera crews...
[42:34.830 --> 42:36.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I'm in all seriousness.
[42:37.250 --> 42:40.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope that they heed the warnings and they move away from there, you know.
[42:40.610 --> 42:43.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not saying, you know, abandon the film and run away screaming to Hollywood.
[42:44.170 --> 42:49.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, you know, just take a week off or whatever, how long it takes to rebuild the town.
[42:50.310 --> 42:53.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, just think of yourselves first.
[42:53.890 --> 42:55.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, they've actually started filming already then?
[42:55.770 --> 42:57.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: They started filming at the beginning of the month, yes.
[42:57.590 --> 43:01.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they haven't said anything to the general 2600 crowd?
[43:01.870 --> 43:02.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not that I know of.
[43:03.030 --> 43:03.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: No.
[43:03.630 --> 43:04.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not that I know of.
[43:04.450 --> 43:06.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I have something to say, and this is towards one person.
[43:06.950 --> 43:08.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Skeet, I hope nothing happens to you.
[43:08.650 --> 43:10.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: I would hate to see all the teen heartthrobs.
[43:10.730 --> 43:13.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, as a member of his fan club, I'm sure you have the...
[43:13.470 --> 43:14.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm working up in the ranks.
[43:14.650 --> 43:15.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm almost present.
[43:15.350 --> 43:19.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: It would have been something if Skeet went missing, you know, and there was like a month where you didn't know where he was.
[43:19.570 --> 43:22.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: It would be sort of similar to the Kevin thing, except in a different way.
[43:22.890 --> 43:23.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[43:24.470 --> 43:31.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd also like to just let everyone know that Skeet Ulrich did not portray Emmanuel Goldstein in Hackers.
[43:31.530 --> 43:32.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, let me point that out.
[43:32.650 --> 43:35.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a common misconception, because he was in Scream.
[43:35.630 --> 43:35.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[43:35.790 --> 43:40.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, and so was the guy who played Emmanuel Goldstein in Hackers, but that's not the same person.
[43:41.050 --> 43:41.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Different people.
[43:41.950 --> 43:42.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Totally different.
[43:42.330 --> 43:44.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Emmanuel in Hackers was in Scream, but he was not.
[43:45.350 --> 43:46.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, everyone always gets that wrong.
[43:47.110 --> 43:47.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[43:47.310 --> 43:49.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's kind of annoying having to explain it to them all the time.
[43:49.070 --> 43:49.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it is.
[43:49.530 --> 43:52.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's also kind of annoying to explain to people that I didn't get my name from that guy.
[43:54.070 --> 43:55.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: George, that was 1984, right?
[43:56.250 --> 43:57.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's pretty much it.
[43:57.130 --> 43:57.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: You mean you didn't?
[43:57.710 --> 43:58.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: All this time, I thought.
[43:58.730 --> 43:58.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wow.
[44:00.010 --> 44:03.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: I knew the film was coming out a long time ago, and I just named myself out to the character.
[44:04.890 --> 44:06.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyway, thanks for the call.
[44:06.250 --> 44:06.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[44:06.350 --> 44:07.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good luck up there in Toronto.
[44:07.370 --> 44:07.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[44:07.930 --> 44:08.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[44:08.330 --> 44:08.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'll see you later.
[44:09.790 --> 44:11.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[44:11.830 --> 44:13.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're listening to Off the Hook, and we have another call on the line.
[44:13.650 --> 44:13.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[44:14.150 --> 44:14.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[44:14.770 --> 44:15.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[44:15.810 --> 44:16.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Quick question.
[44:16.910 --> 44:28.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: The back office program, it has to be installed on both users' machines in order for you to do anything to either of the machines.
[44:28.930 --> 44:29.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Correct?
[44:29.410 --> 44:29.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[44:29.730 --> 44:29.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[44:29.950 --> 44:32.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: The server has to be installed, and then you have a client that you're running.
[44:33.050 --> 44:33.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[44:33.630 --> 44:38.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also, real quick, what has ever happened to Pam?
[44:39.110 --> 44:45.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: She seemed like she dropped off the face of the earth ever since Beyond Hope, just, you know, playing Curiosity.
[44:46.230 --> 44:50.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know there was a little bit of a problem with her and everything.
[44:50.590 --> 44:53.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Come to the 2600 meetings, and everybody is usually there.
[44:54.250 --> 44:54.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[44:54.850 --> 44:55.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, thank you very much.
[44:55.790 --> 44:55.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[44:55.990 --> 45:05.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we have a 2600 meeting coming up, not this Friday, but the Friday afterwards at the usual place, City Corp Center in New York City, and, of course, all the other places around the world on that same day.
[45:06.270 --> 45:07.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[45:07.530 --> 45:07.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[45:08.010 --> 45:08.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[45:10.310 --> 45:10.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello?
[45:10.930 --> 45:11.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anybody there?
[45:11.350 --> 45:11.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Go ahead.
[45:12.350 --> 45:13.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, it's me.
[45:13.330 --> 45:13.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's you.
[45:13.970 --> 45:14.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[45:14.450 --> 45:14.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Great.
[45:14.850 --> 45:15.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Love you guys.
[45:15.510 --> 45:15.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Love your show.
[45:15.950 --> 45:18.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, quick comment, quick question.
[45:18.750 --> 45:20.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm up in Rockland County.
[45:20.390 --> 45:22.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm Sam the Taxi Driver in Rockland County.
[45:22.810 --> 45:37.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they just wiped out a wonderful billboard that somebody printed at the Spring Valley Marketplace that said, free Kevin, subscribe Kevin, www.majordomo.com.
[45:37.770 --> 45:38.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, my God.
[45:38.390 --> 45:38.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, wow.
[45:39.250 --> 45:40.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: 2600.com.
[45:40.430 --> 45:41.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: You didn't know about that, huh?
[45:41.290 --> 45:42.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wish I did.
[45:42.310 --> 45:45.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: We would have sent the film crew up there once the film crew got back.
[45:46.190 --> 45:47.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did anybody take a picture of it, I hope?
[45:48.530 --> 45:49.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did anybody get a picture of it?
[45:49.950 --> 45:51.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I didn't get a picture of it.
[45:51.470 --> 45:53.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I went by today, and it was painted over.
[45:53.810 --> 45:55.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: You see, now, this is exactly...
[45:56.090 --> 46:00.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: If this happens, and I know I've been on the road, so it's very hard to get a hold of me right now.
[46:00.650 --> 46:02.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have several thousand messages waiting for me to want to get back.
[46:03.070 --> 46:03.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[46:03.570 --> 46:11.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: But when we're all around, or if you want to mail it to the OTH, you know, off-the-hook people, OTH at 2600.com, let us know about these things before, you know, they happen.
[46:12.050 --> 46:13.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: That way, we can get there and cover it.
[46:13.990 --> 46:15.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, there's been a number of things.
[46:15.390 --> 46:17.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Skywriting, there's that thing that was on the moon the other day.
[46:17.590 --> 46:26.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: It would be nice if we knew about this in advance so we could do the adequate thing as far as capturing it photographically.
[46:26.510 --> 46:28.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, even a photo sent to us would be great.
[46:30.090 --> 46:30.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
[46:31.090 --> 46:31.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't get anything.
[46:31.950 --> 46:43.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: My question is, I tried to access the website, and I have here, connection refused, description, unable to connect to the site 2600.com.
[46:43.150 --> 46:46.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are you typing www.2600.com?
[46:46.590 --> 46:49.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm not too familiar with the whole setup anyway.
[46:50.290 --> 46:53.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: I stole this computer not too long ago, and I haven't learned how to use it.
[46:54.470 --> 46:55.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: What kind of browser are you using?
[46:55.330 --> 46:56.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Did you say you stole that computer?
[46:56.530 --> 46:58.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, it's a hand-me-down.
[46:58.150 --> 46:58.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[46:58.710 --> 46:58.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[46:59.150 --> 47:00.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was going to say, that's a...
[47:00.510 --> 47:04.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it says that the site is down, overloaded, or unreachable.
[47:05.610 --> 47:07.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not aware of anything like that, so...
[47:07.210 --> 47:08.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you connected on the Internet right now?
[47:09.450 --> 47:10.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm not right now.
[47:10.670 --> 47:11.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm talking to you guys.
[47:11.730 --> 47:12.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: When did this happen?
[47:13.530 --> 47:15.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: This has got to be about a week and a half ago.
[47:15.650 --> 47:19.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, the site has been up pretty consistently since then, so try it again.
[47:19.450 --> 47:22.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, we're obviously up because we have real audio listeners.
[47:22.370 --> 47:23.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, yeah, we wouldn't have them if we weren't up.
[47:24.190 --> 47:25.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's how I can reach you.
[47:25.370 --> 47:25.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[47:26.190 --> 47:26.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yep.
[47:26.790 --> 47:27.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Correctly.
[47:27.230 --> 47:27.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, great.
[47:27.770 --> 47:28.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for the call.
[47:29.190 --> 47:33.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel, maybe you can give out that information for the Kevin Mitnick list real quick.
[47:33.430 --> 47:36.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, if you don't want to drop it to Rockland and look at the billboard, then...
[47:36.830 --> 47:38.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, it's been painted over anyway.
[47:38.370 --> 47:52.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: But all you have to do is, on your Internet account, and on the account that you want to be able to post from, make sure it's the same account with the same address, send email to majordomo, M-A-J-O-R-D-O-M-O, at 2600.com, and in the first line of the message,
[47:52.530 --> 48:05.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: not the title, the first line of the message, simply type, subscribe, Mitnick, two words, M-I-T-N-I-C-K, you'll get a reply, which will ask you to do something else, and when you do that, you'll be subscribed to the list.
[48:05.370 --> 48:09.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: And from that point, you simply mail it to Mitnick at 20scurna.com, and it will be posted to the entire Mitnick list.
[48:10.130 --> 48:14.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's for people who want to share ideas, have questions about the whole Mitnick case.
[48:14.790 --> 48:16.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a very educational forum.
[48:16.290 --> 48:19.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: We've had quite a lot of interesting ideas come across there in the last few years.
[48:19.730 --> 48:21.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: This thing has been around for a while.
[48:21.150 --> 48:22.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's been there forever.
[48:22.250 --> 48:24.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: The list is huge, and it's jumping right now.
[48:24.210 --> 48:31.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can sit there and just keep hitting check mail, and definitely, throughout the day, lots of people are interested in this.
[48:32.270 --> 48:36.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, people that are involved with the story, the whole thing going on, they're actually on the list.
[48:36.470 --> 48:37.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, people that you read about in books.
[48:38.150 --> 48:40.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: We've become the authoritative source of all Mitnick information.
[48:40.970 --> 48:41.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, we are.
[48:41.590 --> 48:44.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: And actually, our goal is to have Kevin join the list someday.
[48:44.450 --> 48:46.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, that's going to have to be after he gets out of prison.
[48:46.590 --> 48:50.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's going to have to be after the crazy conditions of his supervised release are finished.
[48:50.230 --> 48:54.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'd imagine he'd be kept away from anything larger than it.
[48:54.110 --> 48:55.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, maybe even including a toaster.
[48:55.610 --> 48:56.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: A calculator, everything.
[48:57.490 --> 48:58.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Calculators are dangerous.
[48:58.090 --> 48:59.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't want him to touch anything like that.
[48:59.430 --> 49:00.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry, sir.
[49:00.230 --> 49:01.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can't open this checking account.
[49:01.730 --> 49:03.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to give you a free calculator.
[49:03.530 --> 49:05.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're going to get a piggy bank in some quarters.
[49:06.670 --> 49:07.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my.
[49:07.510 --> 49:09.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[49:09.490 --> 49:10.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're listening to Off the Hook.
[49:10.990 --> 49:11.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's take another phone call.
[49:12.530 --> 49:13.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[49:14.450 --> 49:16.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two things in less than two minutes.
[49:16.370 --> 49:16.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[49:16.630 --> 49:20.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you familiar with the two-key encryption devices?
[49:22.430 --> 49:23.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Public key, you mean?
[49:24.130 --> 49:27.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was like the sender has one, the receiver has one?
[49:27.730 --> 49:29.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, public key encryption, yes.
[49:29.350 --> 49:29.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[49:30.050 --> 49:30.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[49:30.950 --> 49:31.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Second thing.
[49:32.330 --> 49:34.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think about the airships?
[49:34.190 --> 49:46.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was recently read where the FCC gave approval to a company to start building airships, which they intend to have in place around 2001-2002.
[49:46.590 --> 49:53.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're supposed to be about, say, 400 feet long and will be stationed about 12 miles above the Earth's surface.
[49:54.890 --> 50:01.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're more or less supposed to be geared towards telecommunications before they go on to, you know, like other things.
[50:01.790 --> 50:03.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And their lifespan is about five years.
[50:03.850 --> 50:05.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're talking about the low-orbit satellites?
[50:06.130 --> 50:06.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[50:07.490 --> 50:14.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: I believe those will be used to replace pretty much the crazy system they have right now with PCS.
[50:14.330 --> 50:16.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have transmitters every few miles.
[50:16.370 --> 50:21.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Imagine if you actually were able to go out into the desert and still keep your sprint PCS or omnipoint coverage.
[50:22.030 --> 50:25.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: That will be possible with that kind of a situation with all those satellites up there.
[50:25.910 --> 50:33.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, most satellites are up so high that if you use them for telecommunications, you get a long delay by the time your voice comes back down to you.
[50:33.090 --> 50:35.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's also a matter of range and signal strength.
[50:35.690 --> 50:40.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, having a handheld unit trying to bounce a satellite is somewhat of a problem.
[50:40.830 --> 50:40.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[50:41.290 --> 50:42.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Then there's an expense with that, too.
[50:42.750 --> 50:43.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's rockets and stuff.
[50:44.510 --> 50:44.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[50:44.950 --> 50:45.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[50:46.850 --> 50:47.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, that is interesting.
[50:47.770 --> 50:49.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just wanted to know if we knew about that.
[50:49.270 --> 50:50.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, that was an easy one.
[50:50.490 --> 50:50.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I didn't want to know.
[50:50.970 --> 50:52.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: We could just say yes.
[50:52.210 --> 50:53.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: All we did was say yes.
[50:54.010 --> 50:54.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's all we have to say.
[50:54.730 --> 50:57.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: We had a 50-50 chance, and the odds fade off.
[50:58.110 --> 50:58.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[50:58.330 --> 50:59.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[51:00.110 --> 51:00.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[51:00.690 --> 51:01.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on Off the Hook.
[51:01.550 --> 51:23.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: In regard to phone numbers, if you wanted to get a number, let's say we had a competition for WBAI, and, you know, if you would prefer a different number than 209-2900 or 2900, if you wanted, you know, you sort of had favorite numbers or they sounded better,
[51:23.350 --> 51:28.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: there's something a little disturbing about the zero, because some people say, oh, 209.
[51:28.370 --> 51:34.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, you know, that's totally wrong, and yet they say it was such, you know, conviction.
[51:34.110 --> 51:35.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: So people dial the letter O, and they dial the sixes.
[51:35.950 --> 51:39.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, they dial the letter O on the pad of where six is.
[51:40.150 --> 51:44.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: We initially were trying to get 999, but, you know, because that's not used.
[51:44.430 --> 51:44.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, really?
[51:44.970 --> 51:45.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that's what I'm asking.
[51:46.050 --> 51:49.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: They don't let us have that, because they say that's the British emergency number.
[51:49.230 --> 51:50.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, well, what...
[51:50.070 --> 51:51.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, a three-digit number would be cool.
[51:51.890 --> 52:09.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but what I'm trying to get across is, what are the ramifications if you wanted to have a number that appealed to you, like, let's say, WBAI on the, you know, like W is 9, and then B is 2.
[52:09.990 --> 52:12.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: You want to know how you can request a specific number from the telephone company?
[52:12.970 --> 52:14.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, how you can request it from the phone company.
[52:14.210 --> 52:17.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's called a gold number, and they basically charge you every month for having one of those.
[52:17.430 --> 52:18.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: How much about?
[52:18.350 --> 52:23.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, I think it's about $5 a month for a residential service.
[52:23.190 --> 52:24.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: For businesses, it's probably double that.
[52:24.750 --> 52:26.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, what do you think about that?
[52:26.470 --> 52:32.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that any good, that idea of whatever it is, and then WBAI would be the...
[52:32.170 --> 52:36.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, I think after changing our number once this year, we probably should let it sit for a little while.
[52:36.990 --> 52:45.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then maybe, you know, after people become accustomed to it, we can start confusing them again, because, you know, confusing people, that's how we, you know, that's how we get our subtle messages.
[52:45.630 --> 52:49.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: I will say, it sounds nicer when you say 209, you know what I mean?
[52:49.330 --> 52:49.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
[52:49.970 --> 53:02.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, uh, when you, when you say 209, there's something very, uh, I don't know, I could say that it may have a, or what do you call it about the airplanes that the Japanese used in kamikaze, uh, raids, uh, you know, against, uh...
[53:02.870 --> 53:04.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: How do you feel self-conscious about the word zero?
[53:04.850 --> 53:09.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, as a ham radio operator, I can tell you that, uh, that does get very confusing.
[53:09.530 --> 53:20.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're trying to pass a message, and all of a sudden you say, like, O, or, uh, I've even heard not, but, uh, there are certain phonetic understandings.
[53:20.690 --> 53:21.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, zero is zero.
[53:22.390 --> 53:27.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, O is, uh, phonetic Oscar, and, uh, there are certain standards you can abide to.
[53:27.590 --> 53:32.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: However, not everybody goes to the same ones, and it can get really confusing when you're trying to pass messages.
[53:33.670 --> 53:34.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for the call.
[53:34.570 --> 53:35.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so...
[53:36.050 --> 53:36.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: 209-2900.
[53:37.310 --> 53:41.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Listening to Off the Hook, and we have a couple minutes left to see if we can squeeze in any more phone calls.
[53:41.390 --> 53:42.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[53:43.910 --> 53:44.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[53:44.550 --> 53:45.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air, Colin.
[53:45.270 --> 53:45.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[53:45.630 --> 53:48.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, do you know the, uh, number for free Internet?
[53:49.230 --> 53:50.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: The number for free...
[53:50.110 --> 53:51.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, that's that, uh, free service that they have?
[53:51.890 --> 53:52.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, free PPP?
[53:52.750 --> 53:54.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: I believe I have it somewhere around here.
[53:54.890 --> 53:55.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, let's see.
[53:55.750 --> 53:56.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do-do-do-do-do-do-do.
[53:57.010 --> 53:58.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, yeah, uh, there...
[53:58.490 --> 54:01.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is a number we were discussing a couple months ago, I suppose, now.
[54:01.930 --> 54:02.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: A couple years ago.
[54:03.310 --> 54:03.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Who knows?
[54:03.870 --> 54:05.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they changed her recently.
[54:05.590 --> 54:05.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[54:05.930 --> 54:14.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, in case this one works, uh, 212-796-1460, to keep our previous caller happy, 1460.
[54:14.870 --> 54:25.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, uh, the username is PPP, and the password, uh, which we had a whole long argument about possibly giving out, uh, since it is a free service, is also PPP.
[54:26.450 --> 54:28.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, you can log on.
[54:28.670 --> 54:41.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, uh, I believe somebody discovered that it's supposed to be a, uh, the way they try make money off you is either with ads, or it might be a, uh, normal, uh, larger than normal toll call, I don't recall, but, uh, check it out.
[54:41.570 --> 54:43.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it, could you just call that number to get it?
[54:43.970 --> 54:44.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry?
[54:44.590 --> 54:46.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, that, that would be a computer that would answer.
[54:46.610 --> 54:48.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the computer actually has to dial that number.
[54:48.610 --> 54:54.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can do that from, if you have Windows 95, from within dial-up networking, if you have a Mac, from within, uh, PPP.
[54:54.810 --> 54:56.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: 9-9-6-1-4-6-0.
[54:56.850 --> 54:57.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Correct.
[54:57.350 --> 55:01.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you know, you could go online, and, uh, I think, what is it, www.like, freepppp.com?
[55:01.930 --> 55:03.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Freepppp.com, I believe.
[55:03.410 --> 55:05.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: They probably have all the information there as well.
[55:05.670 --> 55:06.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks, uh, thanks for your call.
[55:08.130 --> 55:08.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh...
[55:08.770 --> 55:09.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I think, uh...
[55:09.970 --> 55:11.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, you know, the cops are here.
[55:11.650 --> 55:14.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, are they looking for you, or the bugs?
[55:14.130 --> 55:14.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, no, I'm not sure.
[55:14.950 --> 55:15.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not sure.
[55:15.430 --> 55:17.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: This cop is, like, sitting at the gas pump.
[55:17.930 --> 55:18.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's not getting gas.
[55:18.850 --> 55:19.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's just sort of sitting there.
[55:19.730 --> 55:20.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, when...
[55:20.290 --> 55:22.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you've been on the phone for an hour now.
[55:22.250 --> 55:26.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I know, but, you know, cops don't really worry me that much, but when you're in Alabama...
[55:26.530 --> 55:27.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, they should worry me.
[55:27.090 --> 55:29.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: What plates do you have on your vehicle now?
[55:29.210 --> 55:31.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right now, the California plates, because that's where the last rental firm were around.
[55:31.910 --> 55:32.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're going down, son.
[55:33.030 --> 55:33.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah.
[55:33.390 --> 55:34.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: You will respect my authority.
[55:34.590 --> 55:36.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: The only thing worse would be New York plates.
[55:36.770 --> 55:38.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've got, like, all this tie-dye on.
[55:38.510 --> 55:39.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've got long hair.
[55:39.230 --> 55:39.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, my.
[55:39.830 --> 55:40.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've got the...
[55:40.330 --> 55:40.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get out, hippie.
[55:41.710 --> 55:43.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: The strobe glasses are on.
[55:43.810 --> 55:49.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, uh, Emmanuel will be hanging up in five minutes and running as the bugs chase him and the police...
[55:49.310 --> 55:51.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have a bunch of leftist stickers on the back of the car.
[55:51.570 --> 55:52.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, well, yeah.
[55:52.690 --> 55:55.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, the back of the car is kind of a big leftist sticker.
[55:55.190 --> 55:57.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'll be calling from the Alabama Detention Area.
[55:57.630 --> 56:05.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, please, please, uh, call me if you're not in some kind of detention area, uh, but if you are, try and find somebody who would be more able to help you later.
[56:05.850 --> 56:07.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hear they're still chain gangs down here.
[56:07.510 --> 56:07.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[56:08.130 --> 56:08.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[56:08.870 --> 56:09.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: That'll be...
[56:09.350 --> 56:10.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a great way to meet people.
[56:10.610 --> 56:10.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[56:11.270 --> 56:13.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, uh, take, uh, one more phone call.
[56:13.210 --> 56:13.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do we have fun?
[56:13.670 --> 56:14.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we have one more time.
[56:14.530 --> 56:14.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[56:15.410 --> 56:16.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[56:16.830 --> 56:17.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[56:17.350 --> 56:18.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[56:18.470 --> 56:18.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[56:21.570 --> 56:23.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, uh, this question is for Phil.
[56:23.570 --> 56:23.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[56:24.230 --> 56:26.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Phil, um, I'd like to ask you a question.
[56:26.450 --> 56:30.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, what is the difference between, uh, UNIX and Beatniks?
[56:30.950 --> 56:31.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Beatniks?
[56:32.150 --> 56:32.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my.
[56:32.670 --> 56:33.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's up, Phil?
[56:33.330 --> 56:33.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's me, Feige.
[56:34.110 --> 56:35.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to say, please heaven.
[56:36.950 --> 56:38.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering why I wanted to ask you that.
[56:38.550 --> 56:44.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I just would like to say that your friend Emmanuel down in, uh, Alabama, remember that movie, Deliverance?
[56:44.690 --> 56:44.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[56:45.070 --> 56:45.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, my.
[56:46.050 --> 56:46.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Very well.
[56:46.990 --> 56:47.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Very well.
[56:47.630 --> 56:49.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: You better not take the wrong time.
[56:49.910 --> 56:50.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, my.
[56:50.870 --> 56:51.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Whoops.
[56:51.350 --> 56:52.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Claude, Claude.
[56:52.170 --> 56:52.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, my.
[56:52.590 --> 56:53.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Claude accidentally cut him off.
[56:53.750 --> 56:54.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know what to expect there.
[56:54.770 --> 56:56.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was like, UNIX or, and I was expecting, like...
[56:56.850 --> 56:58.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, Beatniks use UNIX.
[56:58.390 --> 56:58.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[56:58.930 --> 57:00.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's great that he called in.
[57:00.370 --> 57:02.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we have supporters all over, and, you know...
[57:02.250 --> 57:03.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, he was getting gas.
[57:03.330 --> 57:03.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[57:03.850 --> 57:04.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: He was getting gas?
[57:04.530 --> 57:04.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[57:04.630 --> 57:05.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, he was getting gas.
[57:05.530 --> 57:06.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: What type of gas?
[57:06.790 --> 57:07.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[57:07.830 --> 57:08.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, this isn't...
[57:08.930 --> 57:10.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, we're making this movie.
[57:11.090 --> 57:11.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if I...
[57:11.730 --> 57:23.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: We told people that, but, uh, we're making our own documentary of our travels across the country talking to people, and right now we're documenting this radio show by filming it, and we have this big, uh, light from the camera because it's dark here now,
[57:23.610 --> 57:34.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: and we have a light distracting all the bugs, and we're filming the show, but, of course, when the cop walked into the gas station to pay his bill, he walked over here, saw the big light, so I'm sure he's going to be walking over here to ask just what in the world's going on.
[57:34.930 --> 57:37.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll give him a free Kevin sticker, a pat on the back.
[57:37.590 --> 57:39.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that usually works.
[57:39.790 --> 57:40.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I thought...
[57:40.530 --> 57:41.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Almost always.
[57:41.730 --> 57:42.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Man, you were just about out of time.
[57:43.050 --> 57:45.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: We've got one caller on the line waiting for you.
[57:45.230 --> 57:45.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[57:45.670 --> 57:46.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, go ahead, caller.
[57:46.590 --> 57:47.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[57:48.830 --> 57:49.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Caller?
[57:49.530 --> 57:50.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[57:50.610 --> 57:51.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, you are.
[57:51.350 --> 57:51.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's you.
[57:51.770 --> 57:52.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Go ahead.
[57:52.030 --> 57:52.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, cool.
[57:53.310 --> 57:53.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, how are you on?
[57:54.210 --> 57:55.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, um, I have a question.
[57:55.990 --> 57:56.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[57:56.930 --> 58:08.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, if our movie theater over here in Texas shows Takedown, uh-huh, can I print out some Kevin bumper stickers or order them, and, like, baffles and stuff, and hand them out inside?
[58:08.370 --> 58:08.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[58:08.970 --> 58:12.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know what's really cool, and this is something that happened to me in Los Angeles.
[58:12.530 --> 58:15.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, there was a guy standing outside a movie theater.
[58:15.250 --> 58:21.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, it was, it was that, that movie theater that we were standing in front of handing out free Kevin literature at the, uh, the Man's Training Theater.
[58:21.390 --> 58:22.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's where they have all those.
[58:22.410 --> 58:24.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he was selling, get this, laser pens.
[58:25.210 --> 58:25.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Laser pens.
[58:26.030 --> 58:33.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, it was a great deal, $15 for a laser pen, but not only did I get a laser pen, I got all these attachments that have these, like, little phrases on them, one of them is happy birthday.
[58:33.890 --> 58:40.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I figure we can make one of those attachments that say free Kevin, and when the film comes out, well, you know what to do.
[58:40.930 --> 58:41.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[58:41.550 --> 58:46.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, also, they can go on, uh, www.kevinmitnick.com and get all the information on the what you can do section.
[58:46.490 --> 58:48.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Manuel, we have to head out soon.
[58:48.790 --> 58:53.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I know you're going to be leaving soon, so is there any last words you have before we, uh, get off the air and before you get arrested?
[58:53.590 --> 58:56.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's likely, it's likely, yes, I'm not arrested.
[58:56.310 --> 58:59.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's likely that, um, uh, I'll be back next week in the studio live.
[58:59.630 --> 58:59.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Great.
[58:59.990 --> 59:03.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope so, so I can save you people the stress of, uh, trying to get a hold of me each week.
[59:03.690 --> 59:03.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[59:04.130 --> 59:04.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, please.
[59:04.390 --> 59:13.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm on my way to Atlanta now, and, uh, tomorrow perhaps I'll look at the carnage that, uh, inside Wilmington, uh, North Carolina, where the Takedown filming is, uh, is taking place.
[59:13.510 --> 59:14.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, maybe it's wrapping, as they say.
[59:15.610 --> 59:15.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[59:16.050 --> 59:16.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, drive safe, sir.
[59:16.970 --> 59:18.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, and, uh, special thanks to Bonnie.
[59:18.950 --> 59:19.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[59:19.730 --> 59:20.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[59:20.750 --> 59:21.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good night, everyone.