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And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
The time is 8 o'clock.
Time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing,
so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving,
now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse,
but if they could, they would.
Bum-Ding-Ding-Bum,
but I best expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum-Ding-Ding-Bum!
Bum-Ding-Bum!
Bum-Ding-Bum!
And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is off the hook.
It's Manuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour, talking about high technology
and the latest developments in the world of cyberspace.
And one of the developments which has not occurred, which we've gotten about 100 pieces
of email telling us that it did occur, is the MTV website.
Friends, the MTV website was not hacked, so please stop sending us mail telling us that
it was hacked.
It's one of these stupid publicity campaigns.
Yeah, if you go to www.mtv.com, you'll see all kinds of stupidity saying something to
the effect of JF was here.
It seems they have some sort of new character in some stupid show of theirs coming out called
Johnny Fame, I think it is.
And they simply want to make it seem as if their site was hacked to get more publicity
and have us get 100 pieces of email so that we know about it.
It's pretty silly.
But it's also indicative of the way the mainstream, the quote unquote mainstream, feels about website
hacks.
It's fun.
It's a way of getting the word out.
It's publicity.
It's all in a day's work.
It's not a big federal deal.
So look to MTV to spread that kind of attitude around.
But the fact of the matter is, hacking websites is just kind of, you know, I don't know.
It's not a big major deal.
It's kind of childish.
Sometimes you can use it for good, for political purposes or whatnot.
I think it would be a lot of fun, though, if MTV's website really did get hacked.
And then, you know, see how they were hacked then.
That would be something.
Just, you know, something simple like instead of JF was here, J.A. was here or whatever.
You know, just a different initial.
Boy, would they get upset.
Then they'll start saying it's a big federal deal and you'll see how hypocritical they
really are.
Pretty silly.
So that's the biggest piece of news that did not happen this week.
There's all kinds of other things that have been happening.
For instance, there was a big kiddie porn bust.
Yes.
I've been reading about this all over the net.
Everyone's talking about this.
The Wonderland Club.
The Wonderland Club's international membership is disturbingly exclusive, according to the
Chicago Tribune.
Applicants must be sponsored by a member, be computer literate to communicate with other
club members, and must have at least 10,000 photographs of child pornography.
In what was termed the biggest child pornography bust ever, the Customs Service announced Wednesday
it was breaking up the Wonderland Club.
More than 100 warrants were issued in 12 countries the day before, including 32 in the United States,
and arrests continued through Wednesday.
They trade in the most vile child pornography imaginable over the internet, said Customs
Commissioner Raymond Kelly in announcing the raids.
And the Wonderland Club stood out.
But they had members in 14 countries, mostly in Western Europe, sprawled across 22 states
in the U.S., mostly in small towns, according to law enforcement officials.
Now get this.
The Ring used a secret, highly restricted internet chat room.
It was set up in an area of cyberspace known as Internet Relay Chat, which allows discussion
groups to carry on in complete anonymity, and therefore to have graphic or incriminating
discussions.
Boy, these people are real smart, you know.
They're on IRC, and they think it's really secretive, and, you know, they can carry on
a conversation without people overhearing.
Yeah, right.
That's beautiful.
That's just great.
And IRC is like broadcasting something to the mountains, standing on top of something,
screaming your guts out.
It's not exactly conducive to privacy, and the fact that the media says that it is.
Gives you an idea how much of a grasp they have on it, too.
Anyway, secrecy was at a premium within the clubs with customs officials.
Members used an encryption system invented by the Soviet KGB to scramble as transmissions
and make them harder to detect.
How good do you think that could possibly have been?
KGB encryption.
I mean, come on.
Probably was cracked back in the 60s.
In any event, that's all we need now to show why encryption must be outlawed, because people
like this use it to communicate over the internet.
It has to be stopped.
And for the good of society, you will agree that outlawing encryption is the only way to
go.
Anyway, that's just my personal take on it.
Yeah.
The raids occurred in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Britain, Finland, France, Germany, Italy,
Norway, Portugal, Sweden, and the United States.
If you heard your country mentioned in that list, I guess you should be concerned, because
it goes a little further than this.
This is from an Italian magazine.
Italian newspaper, actually.
It is difficult to speak when you're surrounded by hysteria, superficiality, and ignorance.
Criticisms are published in invisible paragraphs, and district attorneys choose psychological
terrorism and seize the computers of the suspects, often preventing these people from doing their
jobs, though they know that a backup of the hard disks would be enough.
The mega-raid against the internet pedophiles is the umpteenth tragical farce.
Pedophilia is a mere excuse for slandering the internet as a horizontal, easy, accessible
medium.
As Franco Carlini writes in today's edition of Il Manifesto Daily Paper, the ignorance
of the media people, especially the Italian ones, magnifies everything that happens on
the internet, mostly good things, sometimes very bad ones, just like in real life, as though
journalists stirred up a scandal because drug dealers call each other on the phone.
Apparently they have new regulations over there that makes this kind of thing easier.
It's, um, they say there are some devastating consequences of this new absurd act on child
pornography, whose text could not be more ambiguous.
Is the innocent photograph of a child in the nude illegal?
And what about a naked adult beside the naked child in a non-sexual situation?
And the picture of a father carrying his naked baby in his arms?
It is a stupid emergency act that was written and passed on the wave of moral panic, far from
solving the problem of child abuse.
I choose not to get that phone, because that wasn't a very important call.
Um, I've totally lost my place.
Oh yes, far from solving the problem of child abuse, the act is going to create further moral
panic.
It is also, get this, a liberticide law, liberticide, liberticide.
Claude, do you know what liberticide means?
Uh, it sounds like a neologism meaning that it kills liberty.
Oh really?
I would guess.
Yeah, it's like genocide.
Something like.
Liberticide.
Interesting.
It is also a liberticide, I hope I'm saying it right, a liberticide, okay, if I say it faster,
it sounds better.
It is also a liberticide law that violates privacy.
Libertacidious.
Good, good.
Yes, let's create some words here.
We're shooting ahead towards becoming a police state.
We expect the police to seize our computers for having written this release.
We even expect to be arrested for having written, uh, something in Italian which I cannot read.
That's, uh, the Luther Blissad Project over there in Italy.
So, uh, yeah, this, this is causing quite a bit of a stir.
It's not, uh, as black and white as it might appear.
Uh, okay, we have, uh, still more, still more bits of news here concerning, uh, phone companies
and scams and things like that.
Here's something that's fun.
Have you ever, uh, switched your long distance company by computer over the phone?
Or been told that you had?
Um, well, now there's a service.
I don't know if this is really a service.
Because I don't know if we're supposed to even have this phone number.
Which is why I won't give out the actual phone number.
But I will, I will demonstrate, uh, just what it is that this, uh, this phone number can do.
Uh, let's see now.
We have to obtain a dial tone, first of all.
Can we do that?
Beautiful.
Beautiful, okay.
And now we dial the, oh, we don't have to dial nine, do we?
Okay.
My first mistake.
Okay, now we dial the phone number.
Which, uh, I have to find.
There it is.
That dial tone sounds a little low in pitch, doesn't it?
It sounded funny to me a couple of times.
It's definitely something weird going on out there.
You can guess the rest of the phone number.
Now I have to enter my secret code.
Which I'm definitely not going to, uh, release over the air.
Here we go.
Two, three, eight, zero, five.
Welcome.
Hello.
Enter a ten-digit phone number now.
Okay, uh, let's enter our phone number.
I'm sorry, that message does not exist.
Goodbye.
Enter a ten-digit phone number now.
He says goodbye, but he doesn't mean it.
Okay, let's enter a different phone number.
I'm sorry, that message does not exist.
Goodbye.
Enter a ten-digit phone number now.
Okay, you can have all kinds of fun doing this, but I found a number that works.
Listen to this one.
I'm going to, uh, turn it down, though, so that, there we go.
To play, press one.
To enter a new number, press the pound key.
Let's play.
Let's play.
I believe I hit one.
To confirm that you're at least 18 years of age and have the authority to make the decision
and agree to replace your current long-distance provider with LCI at phone number 71952.
Ah, okay.
Let's, uh, keep that.
Okay, there we go.
Zero.
Press the number 1 now.
Thank you for choosing LCI.
Now, so we can complete your order, please speak your first name after the tone.
Aaliyah.
Please speak your last name after the tone.
Witherspoon.
Please speak the month and day you were born.
February 24th.
Please speak the year you were born.
1970.
To play, press one.
To enter a new number, press the pound key.
Okay, what we have here is, uh, confirmation that that particular number was, in fact, signed up.
Let's, uh, let's enter a different number.
Uh, gosh, I don't know what number I should enter.
Let's enter their phone number.
That entry is invalid.
Yeah, I haven't done it yet.
To play, press one.
Calm down.
To enter a new number, press the pound key.
Okay.
Enter a 10-digit phone number now.
All right, I have to turn this down.
Don't want the number getting out now, do we?
I'm sorry, that message does not exist.
Goodbye.
Their own phone number was not, uh, signed over to their long-distance company.
Okay, something else I discovered.
Let's try this.
That entry isn't valid.
Yeah, shut up.
Enter a 10-digit phone number now.
We're going to enter 10 zeros.
To play, press one.
That's right, it's valid for some reason.
Press the pound key.
We don't know why it's valid, but let's, let's hear what the recording has registered.
To confirm that you are at least 18 years of age and have the authority to make the decision
and agree to replace your current long-distance provider with LCI at phone number 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.
Please say yes after the beep.
To complete your order, it is necessary for you to say yes to this question.
Yes.
Thank you for choosing LCI.
Now, so we can complete your order, please speak your first name after the tone.
Kenneth James Schultz.
Stupid moron, you didn't listen to the instructions.
Please speak your last name after the tone.
Schultz.
Please speak the month and day you were born.
March 25th, 1957.
Once again, you're not following the instructions.
He didn't say anything about the year.
Please speak the year you were born.
1957.
Man.
Some people.
To play, press 1.
Okay.
To enter a new number, press the pound.
I found that nearly every, like, wacky combination of phone numbers winds up in there.
For instance, let's...
Enter a 10-digit phone number now.
Let's enter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0.
To play, press 1.
And you see that's in there, too.
To enter a new number, press the pound.
So let's hear what's in that one.
Okay, thank you.
To play, press 1.
I don't know what that was.
I don't know how that recording was made.
But basically what we have here is we have a system that is used for some sort of verification with LCI.
If you basically debate that your service was signed up with LCI, they call up this number, they enter your phone number, and they hear what you said or what somebody else said.
And judging from the way various strange numbers can be entered, I would hasten to guess that you don't have to be at your phone number to change the long-distance service.
Interesting, isn't it?
So we're going to check into this some more.
I can tell you it's in the 402 area code.
And the rest you're going to have to scan out for yourself.
But it's out there.
I imagine there's lots of things like that.
And maybe other people listening have similar experiences they'd like to share with us.
It's the LCI long-distance confirmation.
All right, and speaking of weird phone company things, Freddy the Fox.
Yes, Freddy the Fraud Fox, is it?
I'm not quite sure what his full name is.
But he has a warning for us.
And you can check out Freddy the Fox over at the Bell Atlantic website, which is www.bell-atl.com slash security slash fraud.
Yes.
Recently, there has been growing concern about companies that bill consumers for telecommunications services they did not order or use.
And you know what?
There's a new name for this.
No, it's not slamming.
Slamming is when you sign somebody up for long-distance service, like, you know, maybe people in that previous segment did.
It's called slamming.
This is called cramming.
That's right.
It's known as cramming because quite often the charges are positioned in the consumer's bill such that they may be easily overlooked.
They're sort of crammed in there.
They pay people to come up with these things.
Bell Atlantic is very concerned about the rise in complaints of this practice.
Our experience has shown that a customer can be crammed as a result of just accepting a collect call, filling out a sweepstakes or a raffle ticket, or responding to voice prompts in the course of placing a call.
The following tips will help customers detect cramming early and avoid becoming a victim of the practice.
Helpful tips about cramming.
Early detection.
Sounds like a disease.
Review your telephone bill thoroughly for all charges.
Question the telecommunications service provider whose name and logo appear on the page of the bill of any unfamiliar charges.
Notify your local telephone company if you do not recognize a charge or are unable to resolve a disputed charge with the telecommunications service provider.
And here's prevention.
Do not divulge personal information such as telephone number, credit card number, or social security number on sweepstakes or raffle tickets.
Quite often this information is not secure and may be used for reasons other than intended.
Keep a copy of any applications you fill out.
You'll have a reference in the event of any disputes.
Avoid filling out entries for contests that seem vague in nature.
Do not accept collect calls from unfamiliar persons.
Do not return calls to unfamiliar telephone numbers.
Beware of faxes, email, voicemail, and pages requesting a return call to an unfamiliar number.
Know the location of the area code which you are dialing.
If you're unfamiliar with the area code, consult your Bell Atlantic directory.
Or call directory assistance for a mere charge of, what is it, 75 cents now?
They'll tell you what area code it is.
Great, huh?
Avoid placing calls that have an unfamiliar dialing pattern.
Local, domestic, and international dialing is explained in the front of your Bell Atlantic directory.
Pay close attention to voice prompts on a call.
They may be asking you to accept charges for the call or other services.
So that's how you avoid cramming.
There's all kinds of fraud tips there, or fraud prevention tips.
I'm not quite sure how to interpret it.
The Better Business Bureau has advised of a scam in which unknown parties claim Gerber Baby Foods has lost a class action suit
and will pay a $500 savings bond to children under 12 who were born between 1985 and 1997.
Notices have appeared instructing parents to send copies of their child's birth certificate and social security number to an address to be processed.
The notice promises compensation once the information is sent.
Gerber, in a news release to the Better Business Bureau, has announced there has been no such settlement.
This type of activity is a form of true name fraud.
True name fraud occurs when someone's name and personal information is stolen.
By obtaining social security numbers, birth certificates, or driver's license information,
all things that you could probably get from Blockbuster because we're encouraged to give that information out freely,
a criminal has enough personal information to purchase items using your name.
Now, think about this.
Bell Atlantic asks you for your social security number.
They, you know, ask you for all kinds of personal information.
And now they're saying that possession of that information is enough for someone to purchase items using your name.
You know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it's stupid to give out your personal information to these companies
because they don't know how to take care of it.
It's always getting out.
They share their mailing list.
They share their phone numbers with all kinds of telemarketers.
And they have big trash bins in the back of their buildings where people can dive in and find this information.
And it happens all the time.
Purchases such as jewelry or electronic equipment can be made via an application.
Anything, really.
It doesn't have to be jewelry or electronic equipment.
It could be any kind of purchase.
Without a picture ID, it can be sold quickly on the street.
It also can be used to establish fraudulent telephone service or to add service to your account,
which can be used in a criminal manner.
In any case, you get the bill.
This scam is difficult to counter because the information is true and the perpetrator becomes you.
So how can you defend yourself?
This should be fun.
Be aware of the company or individual to whom you give personal information.
Keep a copy of applications you fill out.
When filling applications in malls, find a non-critical item and change it each time.
Hey, that's one of our tactics.
Except we use it against Bell Atlantic.
Notify your account holders and law enforcement immediately if you suspect fraud.
Avoid filling out entries for contests that seem vague.
You know, these Gerber people, though, they could just send you $500.
It's probably worth it for them.
You know, and they seem completely legitimate, but they have your information.
Of course, they don't need to go to all that trouble to get your information.
It's so simple because all these corporate computers keep information about individuals.
And they basically violate your trust by having it easy to access.
Not only for their employees, but for virtually anybody who has access to their computer system,
which pretty much encompasses the entire planet.
Okay, let's hear what we're dealing with.
Why is that light amber?
All right, I'll just move over here.
Good question.
Yeah, okay, we have another dial tone.
Oops, I dialed 9 again.
I can't believe I did that.
Okay, I did it again.
There must be something wrong with me.
Okay, I'm going to stop dialing 9 now.
I'm just going to dial the 800 number for Freddy the Fox.
Freddy the Fraud Fox.
And you can dial this number, too, by dialing 1-800-9-OUT-FOX.
Here we go.
Hi, I'm Freddy.
Thanks for calling the Alliance to outfox phone fraud.
Please let us know how you heard about the Alliance.
Leave your name, address, phone number, and the purpose of your call.
I don't think so, Freddy.
And one of my colleagues will get right back to you.
Oops.
Recording too short.
Cancelled.
Thank you for calling.
Uh-oh.
Okay, that didn't work out too well.
But using some sort of computer system there.
And I have no interest in it whatsoever.
Freddy the Phone Fraud Fox.
I believe it's his full name.
And you can also call the Bell Atlantic Fraud Prevention Center, FPC.
They're a one-stop, state-of-the-art facility committed to protecting our customers
by detecting suspicious calling patterns and acting upon them.
The 800 number, 1-800-745-6989, serves customers 24 hours a day, 7 days per week, in 140 languages.
In 1995, the FPC reduced calling card fraud by 80%.
Well, I got something for them.
Okay, I got something that I want to report.
All right?
And maybe some people out there can pursue this.
If you're in Bell Atlantic territory, I challenge you to go to your telephone right now.
Right now, go to your telephone.
And see if you have three-way calling.
I'll bet you don't think you do.
But I have been told by Bell Atlantic that you have three-way.
It's there.
It's on your phone.
You didn't ask for it, but they put it there for you.
They're not charging you.
No, no, no.
Let me make this clear.
They're not charging you a monthly fee for this service.
They gave it to you.
They said, here, all Bell Atlantic customers have it, have three-way calling.
If you want to use it, use it.
If you don't want to use it, don't use it.
Isn't that nice?
I mean, you know, that's not something you would expect a big, large corporation to do,
just give you a service like that, you know?
Well, here's the catch.
I don't know how many of you use the phone a lot, but when you make a phone call and you
hang up and then pick up again, sometimes if you have three-way, in fact, most of the
time if you have three-way, you'll wind up on that second dial tone.
You'll get a stutter dial tone, meaning that you basically hit flash.
And then when you make that second call, you've made a three-way call.
You've used their service.
And for using that service, Bell Atlantic will charge you 75 cents per call.
Kind of cool, isn't it?
So they stick this service on your phone line and then trick you into using it.
Because I don't think there's anybody out there who has not hung up the phone and then picked
it up again, wanting to make another call because the first one was so much fun.
So they basically are relying on people not really listening that carefully to see if
it's a stutter dial tone or a regular dial tone and accidentally making a three-way call.
You've done it, haven't you, Claude?
No, but I'm curious.
How can you query your line to find out if you have it?
Well, you really can't.
You have to make a phone call first.
And then when you make that phone call and you're connected to something, hit the flash
hook.
If you get a stutter dial tone, you have three-way.
And I'd like to know.
I was told that it was given to everybody.
Like a gift.
Just given to everybody.
It's like giving somebody a car.
No, it's more than that.
It's giving somebody a car, putting them in the car, and pushing the car and turning it
on so that they have to drive it and then charging them per mile.
That's what it's like.
Like, yeah, I'm sure with time I can come up with a better analogy than that, but that's
what comes to mind immediately.
All right, so that's something that should be reported to Freddie the Fox.
I don't know what he's going to do about it.
There's also, there's a Freddie the Fox video called The Weakest Link, explains how to outfox
the latest phone fraud scams.
Now, they won't give it to us because we're not part of Bell Atlantic, but I know there's
Bell Atlantic people out there listening.
We got some of our people on the inside.
If a video like that finds its way to us, we'd be most happy.
Our mailing address is off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I was going to get it, all right?
I was going to get it.
I was thinking.
1-0-0-0-5, right?
Yeah, okay.
I was going to get that.
Okay.
All right.
Or you can send it to 2600 Magazine, P.O. Box 752, Middle Island, New York, 11953, and
just mention that it's for off the hook.
And, yeah, I'd like to see what they say in that video.
Upcoming fraud prevention events.
What's today's date?
Today is the 8th?
8th.
Okay.
9-8-98.
Well, there's something happening right now.
The CFCA 1998 International Conference, unfortunately, is taking place in Copenhagen, Denmark.
It's not unfortunate, but just inconvenient, because I doubt anybody's going to be able
to get there.
September 8th through 11th.
Maybe there's somebody listening to us right now over there that, you know, that maybe
can send us a video or tell us what's going on.
Then there's Super Sunday Unity Day in Philadelphia.
That's September 13th.
I don't know what that has to do with phone fraud, but they say that that's going to be
a Freddy the Fox event.
He's been spotted in shopping malls, train stations on street corners, and in airports.
His mission, to enlist the public in the fight against phone fraud, takes him through
the Bell Atlantic region to mingle with customers and distribute his tips on how to out-fox
phone fraud.
So, September 13th.
It's a big Freddy the Phone Fraud Fox day in Philadelphia.
It says on the Ben Franklin Parkway.
He's going to be on the Ben Franklin Parkway.
Look for, you know, a mashed fox or something.
They don't give any more detail than that.
Super Sunday Unity Day in the Ben Franklin Parkway.
Then after that, Wichita Falls, Texas on September 18th and 19th, the bi-state fair, Texas slash
Oklahoma, I guess, will be hopping back and forth over the border.
And it's back to Philadelphia on October 19th through 21st, the Senior Expo and the Conference
Center in Philadelphia.
So there's all kinds of events taking place.
And you can also see, I feel like a commercial here.
You can see Freddy on televised public service announcements in English and Spanish aired throughout
the Bell Atlantic region on the following channels.
And in our region, well, there's nothing in New York, but there's a couple of channels
in New Jersey.
Actually, there's one channel in New Jersey that I think is within range of here.
WMBC, Channel 63, Newton, New Jersey.
If you watch that channel long enough, maybe you'll see Freddy the Fox there.
All right.
That's pretty much everything I've got to say on that subject.
It's pretty interesting, though, how they give out all this information about phone fraud
but ignore the real phone fraud out there.
I mean, you know, there's constant, constant money being made at the expense of the consumer.
They have all these figures here about the billions of dollars that have been made because
of cellular toll fraud, calling card fraud, subscription fraud, pay phone toll fraud, call
forwarding fraud, prisoner fraud.
And, you know, it's really a question of what it is that you focus on.
If you had a pay phone and you put in a quarter for a local phone call and then that nice little
voice comes back and says, please put in five cents for an additional however many minutes
and you put in a quarter, they don't credit it for a quarter.
They credit it for a nickel and they keep the 20 cents.
How does that get added up into the mix?
Is that just profit?
Is that some sort of fraud on their end, you know?
And things like that happen all the time.
Charges for things that don't exist.
Charges for gold numbers.
The former charge for touchdowns.
And companies that are basically forced because of all their profits to make a donation.
And then they make the donation and then they bill it back to their customers.
So they make the profit and then they make more money.
It just never ends.
That's the kind of thing I'd like to see on a web page.
Okay.
212-209-2900 is our phone number and it doesn't use Bell Atlantic.
But, you know, I think we might have some problems with that line anyway because some people
say they get charged when they call it, even when it doesn't pick up.
And that's a problem.
But we're still in the process of looking into that.
212-209-2900.
The program is off the hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein with you here on this Tuesday night as we are every Tuesday night from 8 to 9.
Talking about the latest in telecommunications.
Let's go to our first phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, hello.
How are you doing?
Yes, I was in Chicago recently.
I was visiting my grandmother.
And I found that, I found two things with their phone service.
Hey, she lived in an elderly, a house of the elderly, and all of the people had three-way service.
This was in Chicago under Ameritech.
Yeah, you know, I think, the interesting thing is, these scams, they spread from company to company.
It's not just one company doing it.
I think they talk to each other and say, hey, wouldn't it be a good idea if we did this?
And then they all do it.
Yeah, also, another thing, the intercom system that she has in her building is based on the phone.
When you punch in the person's number, the intercom system opens up an open line, and pulse dials the person's number.
A very common system, especially in places like California, you can basically listen for somebody's phone number.
And since they use pulse, I don't know why they use pulse anymore, but even if they use touch tones,
you'd be able to figure it out pretty easily what their phone number is.
And lots of times, the number is unlisted.
Yeah.
Anyway, also, and, well, yeah, it's pulse dialing, and also, the whole problem is, for example,
if you try to call somebody, you know, to get them to open the door, and that person is talking on the phone,
you may not be able to get until they hang up.
Because in some places also, some places they send a signal to your line, so it either beeps or there's like a small pause.
Right.
So it knows that, so you could tell that the person is outside.
Or sometimes there's no signal whatsoever, so you don't even know that people are beeping you.
Yeah, and, you know, there are these cases where you use call forwarding,
and you forward your line someplace else, or somebody does it for you,
and all of a sudden they have control over your door.
You know, they can hit a button and let somebody in.
Yeah, and also, there's a big problem is when they try to talk to somebody to see who it is,
if you're standing downstairs and you just say something, your voice comes over the line all distorted.
I don't know, maybe that's a security feature so people won't dial out.
That's probably just a stupidity feature.
Yeah, but since, like, it's an elderly house, it can compromise its safety,
because you can't hear who you're letting in the door.
Uh-huh. Yeah, absolutely.
It can be any stranger who can let in a burglar.
Uh-huh. Yeah.
It's not a very well-designed system.
What was wrong with pushing buttons and hearing people over the intercom and saying,
I'm going to let you in, I'm not going to let you in?
Whose bright idea was it to tie that into a phone line
and basically get rid of one good service and cripple another service?
Yeah, and sell some more expensive, since the landlord has to pay for every call.
Uh-huh. Yeah, that's pretty silly. You can rack up quite a bill.
Well, okay. Nice show. Bye.
Thanks. Thanks for calling.
212-209-2900.
I mean, you know, we move forward in technology,
but so many times we make the stupidest moves forward,
and we just have to reinvent the wheel, you know?
We do something that's just so obviously not a good idea.
If you just think about it for five minutes, you'll see all the problems,
but we feel we have to make all the mistakes anyway
and have all these people suffer because of it,
and then we do it right and we call it a service enhancement, you know?
It's just, it's unbelievable.
And the companies, they always come up with the same line.
They say, because of your feedback, we're doing it this way.
You know, it's your fault. It's not our fault.
You told us to do this.
I mean, when's the last time the phone company did something
because you told them to?
Good evening. You're on Off The Up.
Yeah, hi.
Hi. This is an unfamiliar voice.
Oh, yeah. Well, I just wanted to mention that there's a lot of fraud.
I've never heard this voice before.
Because, can you hear me?
Can you hear me?
You've never sounded better.
Well, sorry. I'm calling from outside.
Uh-huh.
But, you know, you were talking about phone fraud.
You know, there's a lot of fraud by AT&T.
Well, I'm not surprised.
There's fraud by any company.
Well, you know, third number fraud.
AT&T puts third number calls through without asking.
And you're the person that happens to know about this.
Well, I'm sure a lot of people know about it.
Okay, well, okay.
They put it through without asking.
You want to tell us?
In other words, what?
Tell us how. Tell us specifically how.
When you're at a regular phone, if you're not on a pay phone,
if you're at a regular phone, you just go,
like if you're one of the charge, you call to another number,
they'll just enter the number, and then they'll put it through.
They'll say thank you and put it well and just go through.
Yeah, but what if you have third number blocking on that other number?
Well, then you...
And it doesn't work.
And that's why I don't think there's any reason in the world
for somebody to have third number billing enabled on their phone.
Basically, what that allows somebody to do,
they just talk to the operator and say,
I want to bill that call to this number here.
And they pick a number at random, and they get the bill.
Any number.
Yeah, and it's just stupid.
There's no reason to do that.
It's just like the hotel thing,
where you can give them any room number where you're calling.
You know that?
Yes, I know that,
and you've spent most of your life experimenting with that, I realize.
Anything else?
And what else?
I was in Canada this weekend.
I went up to Maine and all.
And what did I...
You had some sort of a, what, a speaking tour or something?
Speaking tour?
No.
I just happened to go away for the weekend.
Uh-huh, okay.
I thought maybe you were lecturing executives on how to better secure their phone system.
Well, I'd like to do that.
You should do that.
You should definitely do that.
If anyone wants me to do that, please email me.
I would pay to see that.
Yeah, please email me.
You want my new email address?
Uh, I'll have other people email you, but thanks very much.
Thanks for calling.
We've got to move on.
I think I've just started a new career for him,
and the downfall of Western civilization at the same time.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hi, Emanuel.
Well, boy, I tried getting through last week,
but you were trying to avoid a certain caller,
and it really messed up my timing.
Did you get my letter?
I mailed to you at the station with the questions I had.
I signed you the Riddler.
Uh, we just found the mailbox in the new studio.
Okay.
And I got all the mail at once.
I haven't had a chance to open it yet, but I have it.
It's within a few feet of me.
Okay, so I'll ask the questions.
I'll forget the silly questions.
I'll just ask you the two salient questions.
Now, first, please, come clean with us.
We're all friends and family.
What's up?
Did you have a fight or a falling guy with fiber optic?
Because he's been missing in action for months,
and there's no account of his absence,
and I, for one, miss him.
So, first of all, what's the situation with him?
Uh, basically, he's just not doing the show.
You can email him.
Is it because he's angry at you guys, or?
Not that I know of.
He has, like, he got a girlfriend?
I'm just kidding.
Okay, and the other question,
and this is the most serious one.
Last Tuesday, earlier on...
I'm looking for your mail, actually.
I can't seem to find it.
What?
I'm looking for your mail.
I have all the mail right here.
Oh, well, you know, I'm not going to say...
Are you the one that addressed it to the Kevin Mitnick show?
No, off the hook.
Okay.
It's, um...
I'm not going to say the CIA intercepted it or anything.
I'm not that crazy.
But anyway, my main question, last Tuesday on BAI, on the Kathy Davis show, she had on a guy who said,
basically, in, like, four or five major cities, where they did the PCS antenna array installations,
that according to the CDC, the Center for Disease Control, the death rates in those cities increased, I believe,
10% to 20% over a two- to three-month period right after the end of the installation.
So I was wondering if you guys heard anything about that and want to comment on that.
Well, 10% to 20% increase in the death rate anywhere...
For two to three months.
According to the guests on the Kathy Davis show last Tuesday on BAI.
I don't know.
That sounds a bit much to me.
I mean, you know, I'm all in favor of having very stringent guidelines,
but that seems like something that would definitely be a cause for concern.
I'd like to see the documentation.
All right.
But again, you know, to put it in perspective, this is a very at-their show,
where she has, like, fringe healers and qigong and spirituality,
and it's not really a Michio Kaku straight science kind of show,
but I thought you guys might find it interesting.
Okay, what's doing with the movie?
Any release date yet?
Well, no, we still have to edit the thing, and that's going to take a long time.
Do you have a distributor, and it's going to be shown in, like, in the real movie theater?
We don't even have a computer yet to edit it on, so we have to do that first.
Are you going to, like, project it on the building side or something?
Who knows what we might do?
You know, anything's possible.
But we're going to try to do the best job we can,
but we have to, you know, get the right kind of software,
the right kind of hardware, and the right kind of money to pay for all this,
and hopefully we'll have it done within the next year or so.
Okay, let's do the thing.
So, Fiber, if you're listening, I miss you.
Come back soon, and a shout-out to Dr. Fay, the coolest hacker psychologist in Queens.
Bye.
Okay, thanks for that call.
Yeah, 212-209-2900.
Who else is out there?
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Good evening.
You guys have got a great show.
Why, thanks.
It's very informative.
Listen, I have two questions for you.
I'm in a New York local area, and I guess I'm on the Bell Atlantic.
Just before Bell Atlantic took over from, was it 9X?
Yes.
I started getting this.
I make only, as far as long-distance calls go, I call only two places, family members, like, throughout the week.
And one is in Puerto Rico, one is in Washington, D.C.
For the party in Puerto Rico, I suddenly started getting a block, and I didn't know anything about it.
I didn't put up a block, and the party in Puerto Rico didn't put up a block.
What's your phone company?
Long distance?
Yes.
Sprint.
Okay.
Sprint has apparently determined that all calls to Puerto Rico must be fraudulent in nature.
Okay, but the thing is that I, just to find out what was going on, I called other parties in Puerto Rico,
and I don't have a block to any other number, except this one particular number, which is the one that I call.
Really?
Yeah.
They must not like that person for some reason.
It happens to be my mom, and she's got the greatest credit rating in the world, as far as I know.
And I have no problem with paying, you know, their bills.
Have you asked them about this?
I wasn't sure who it was that was putting the block on.
At first, I was running around in circles trying to find out whether...
But what does the recording say?
The recording says in Spanish.
It answers in Puerto Rico, and it says in Spanish,
We're sorry, but this call cannot go through because the number is blocked, and you have to release it or whatever.
So then I found out through, I talked to someone, and they said, Try dialing star A2.
Oh, I see what's going on here.
Okay.
And I did that, and I still do it today because every other number I call in Puerto Rico,
whether it be a regular number that I call every now and then, I never get the block except for this one.
Okay.
Here's what's happening.
Okay.
Your mother's line in Puerto Rico has anonymous call rejection.
She needs to have that service removed.
Okay.
What that service does, it blocks all calls from a particular number that is blocking its caller ID.
Okay.
You can have that removed.
There's also a store code.
I don't know what it is off the top of my head.
There's a store code you can dial that will change the option.
That will take it off completely?
Yeah, but it's best to have the phone company do it.
If somebody has that information, look in the front of your phone book, give me a call,
and we'll broadcast it over the air.
Okay.
It's easy to fix.
Okay.
Now, I have another question.
Thanks for that.
I recently heard, I saw an ad on TV on the Odyssey channel,
and they're offering a long-distance service that, if I'm not mistaken,
it's like 8.6 cents a minute at all times.
And the pitch that they offer, that they throw at you is that they're doing this because they're sort of like a family-oriented,
religious kind of concern, the Odyssey channel itself.
And they say that, you know, part of the proceeds of long-distance calls that a customer makes will go to certain charities.
But I wouldn't care where they went.
I'm thinking about the 8.6 cents a minute, which is better than what Sprint has given me.
Well, it sounds like the flip side of something called Working Assets,
which basically takes a percentage of what you call and donates it towards liberal charities and groups.
This organization needs to be doing it towards conservatives.
So basically you have to select your political leanings and then pick your long-distance company.
I think the rates are about the same, though.
I think they both use Sprint, and they knock off something of the price.
Uh-huh.
The best I'm getting from Sprint now is 10 cents a minute.
But if 8.6 might make a difference, then sometimes I stay on the phone a long time.
It depends.
You know, it depends on other things that they might add into it, like, you know, weekend rates, night rates, day rates.
Is it 8.6 cents a minute all the time?
That's what they say on the ad on TV, yeah.
There are all kinds of things.
You can get good rates like that in many different ways.
You don't have to subscribe to conservative groups to do it.
But they're out there in all different forms.
You just have to look around a little bit.
Okay.
Well, thanks very much.
All right.
Good luck with that Puerto Rico thing.
I'll keep looking into this block thing.
And whatever I find out, I'll call you back and let you know.
Well, keep listening to the show.
I'm sure somebody will call up with the star code that will fix that.
Thanks again.
Okay.
Bye.
Either of you guys know the star code to take off anonymous call block?
No?
Shh.
Worthless.
Oh, well.
It's star something.
You might just want to go through the whole, the whole, like, you know, alphabet of phone dialing, star XX.
It might be star nine something.
I don't know.
All right.
Next phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
How you doing?
Hi.
I found another scam going on with MCI.
Uh-oh.
I will look at my bills, my long-distance calls, and I've noticed that the first minute is charged.
Like, let's say, if I made a call to Florida and the person wasn't home, I would hang up, right?
Right.
And on my bill, it shows up, like, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, and so on.
So, I'm being charged for all those first minutes.
Wait a minute.
You call the person every minute to see their home?
No, I didn't.
Okay.
So, how did you make the call?
If the person's at home, I'm not going to call back for another hour.
Right.
So...
I was being charged every minute.
They charged you every...
How many calls did they charge you for?
It was a total of seven.
Seven calls?
Yeah.
And you had just called once and let the phone ring?
And it wasn't only that number.
It was other areas as well.
Sounds like they charged you per ring.
I don't know what they're charging me by, but they're going to...
They said they'll take it off.
Yeah.
Well, you know, it's interesting.
That reminds me, there was another thing involving Sprint PCS, and I advise everybody
to check their...
Not the current bill, the bill before this, because I just got back from traveling around.
I looked at all my bills at once.
And that bill, which I think was either July or August, a lot of local calls were billed
as long distance.
In other words, I'm calling from New York to New York, and under the long distance column,
there's a charge.
And I called them, and I said, how could there be a long distance charge?
It's not a long distance call in any interpretation.
And they said, yeah, our computer broke.
We'll fix it.
And they just billed...
They basically gave me a credit for a certain amount.
I don't know if it's the right amount, but I advise everybody who uses that service to
look at that bill, because you might...
But I'm also noticing that it's appearing on my AT&T also.
The same way?
Yeah.
I'm wondering if something might be wrong with your phone.
I don't know.
This is the first time it happened.
They're always one-minute calls?
Yeah.
Does this person have an answering machine?
No.
So there's no way they could even be picking up?
I'm just being charged just for the call going through.
That's awfully weird.
That's...
And no one has picked up the line, so I found it weird myself.
So I was wondering if it was a scam.
Is there any chance this person has a phone that, like, transfers to a fax machine or something
like that?
No.
Because sometimes...
Well, sometimes what happens, you call somebody, and you hear kind of a funny ring, and actually
that's a fake ring.
The phone is picked up, and it's transferred to a fax or some other device.
Yeah.
I know that sound, but no, he doesn't have that.
Okay.
No.
Then it's a weird problem, and definitely make sure that you don't have to pay for that.
Right.
No matter how many times you have to call them.
And, you know, if you're certain the problem is not on your end or their end, then continue
to pursue it until they fix it.
Right.
And I'll keep you up to date.
All right.
Thank you.
Thanks very much.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
212-209-2900.
Off the hook is the show.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Speak up, please.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Oh, you're an echo.
I'm a Bell Atlantic ISDN subscriber.
Uh-huh.
And when I first subscribed, you could only do it through an agent.
Bell Atlantic was so incompetent, they couldn't take the order.
They forced you to use an agent.
And my question is, I have on my, you know, I can use either 2B together for internet access.
Uh-huh.
Or I can split it and use one for voice and one for data.
And they charge me, they make a distinction between the 2B lines.
Okay.
One is Datapath.
And am I being over, is there some less expensive way I can order the ISDN?
I'm not sure what you're asking.
The ordering.
Did you order it or didn't you?
I did.
And it's been installed for several years.
Okay.
So now you're asking if there's a cheaper way to order it?
Right.
There are several options.
I don't know if there are, there are several options around ISDN.
There's some options where you can make voice calls, two voice calls simultaneously.
Right.
Are you talking about hooking up to the net?
Yes.
I use it now to hook up to the net through a, you know, Motorola BitSurfer.
Okay.
And how do you connect to the net?
I dial up, I use MindSpring.
I'm saying, what kind of connection do you use?
56K or 64K?
I use 2B.
I get 115.2.
Okay.
Hang on.
Wicked here has a question for you.
Go ahead.
Okay.
If you're using a BitSurfer, you should be dialing in a 3.1 kilohertz audio mode.
And that'll allow you to use data over voice.
And the calls will be charged as a voice call instead of the data rate.
Is that what you're doing?
Are you using data rate or voice?
I'm probably using data rate.
Okay.
So, you're connecting 64K per channel.
Correct.
All right.
That's, yeah, that's a waste.
You don't want to do that.
Yeah.
Aha.
The BitSurfer, the mode to use for the BitSurfer is 3.1 kilohertz audio.
Okay.
So, if I use the voice mode.
You can achieve 56K per channel, a total of 112.
Got it.
All right.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
What state are you in, by the way?
I'm in New York State.
New York.
Okay.
Yeah.
There should be no problem whatsoever doing that.
Yeah.
Originally, this was originally a 9X order.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Good luck.
Thank you very much.
And thanks to Pork Shop for answering our question.
He's just sent me an email on the old Omnipoint phone here.
And this is for the person calling Puerto Rico.
You want to tell the person there to dial star 87, and that will deactivate anonymous call blocking.
That's right.
Uh, star 87.
If you want to activate it, dial star 77.
Now, I'm not certain.
Maybe Pork Shop can email me this, too.
I'm not certain if when you dial star 87, that's, it just stays that way until you dial star 77.
I don't know.
Uh, I'm not sure.
Okay.
Maybe this is the answer already.
Um, no, it just sent me the same message twice.
Okay.
That's great.
But maybe, uh, maybe we can find out that, you know, it'd be kind of nice.
All right.
212-209-2900.
We have time for one or two more calls.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello?
Yeah.
Speak up, please.
Oh, hi.
Um, yeah, I enjoy your show.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I have a question.
Um, I received something in a mail call, uh, it's, uh, about Long Island, uh, community
telephone company.
I've heard of them.
Yes.
I've heard of, I have not had a chance to actually experiment with them.
Did, did you try them out?
No, I haven't.
I just wanted to see if you knew anything about it.
They're supposed to, uh, you can replace your 9X, I mean, your, uh, Bell Atlantic.
They say that there's no change to your service, no change to your phone number, and, and this
is something that, that I thought was a bit odd.
They say that you can keep your, you know, the same high quality of your phone service,
and I was wondering if, if it's, if they're defining the competition as high quality, why
would you want to switch?
You know, that's what, I couldn't understand that.
Yeah, so maybe I'll check it out, but you don't know anything about that, right?
Uh, I just know they exist.
I don't know anybody who's actually tried them.
I intend to try them.
Because they think that they can provide long distance and local telephone service, you
know, at a high quality rate.
Well, I don't know if you'd want to use long distance through a local company, because they,
they might be, I don't know, that might be where they make money.
Uh, but I'd like to try an alternative local company.
Right.
It sounded sort of interesting, because, you know, it's in a community based.
Mm-hmm.
So, um.
Well, again, they're saying that, but is that really true?
We need to find out who it is that's running this company, and where they're based, and
that kind of thing.
Okay.
We'll look into it, and whatever we learn, we'll report here.
Okay, thanks a lot.
All right.
Bye-bye.
Take care.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Okay.
You've got to speak faster, folks.
That's, uh, that's, that's part of the way things work around here.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Oh, my goodness.
Yeah.
As a matter of fact, I thought that I was not with you, because every time I used to call
the other phone, you hung up before 10 rings.
Really?
Well, okay.
Well, we don't do that anymore, but we might be charging you.
I'm not sure yet, but we're looking into that.
Where are you calling from?
Uh, the Bronx.
Okay.
What's on your mind?
I have a problem, and my mother's telephone thing, I discovered that for over a year, the
wonderful LCI has been charging her for long-distance calls.
Okay.
Can you turn down your radio a little bit?
Sure.
Hold on.
Thank you.
LCI.
LCI strikes again.
Oh, looks like we have an answer for the workshop.
Yes.
Oh.
Let me just, let me just, uh, read this, uh, the, uh, anonymous call ejection will, will
remain on until you turn it off.
So, okay, that is the solution for that person.
I'll start at seven.
Problem should go away.
Is that better?
Yes, that's fine.
Okay, so, uh, you have about a minute, so quickly tell us.
Okay, so I called Bill Atlantic, and I told them that why were they on my line.
First of all, I called them, and I said, who ordered your services?
LCI.
And then they charged me for that phone call, even though the woman says, well, I'm sorry,
we'll disconnect you.
I called Bill Atlantic, and I told them, I want them off.
The only long-distance I have is AT&T.
Uh-huh.
They still keep billing me.
LCI is still billing you?
Yes.
That's right.
And I called them again.
Uh-huh.
I said, what happened?
I was supposed to be a officer.
Then I got billed again for the long-distance calls to the 800 number.
Okay, what you need to do, and I'm sorry to be brief here, but we're running out of time.
What you need to do is speak to nobody except Bill Atlantic, call your Bill Atlantic service
representative, and you tell them that you're having all these problems with different phone
companies, and you want to authorize yourself personally with Bill Atlantic, this one phone
company, and you want them to wipe out all the charges that they charged you for because
they were misleading and they were fraudulent.
And I'm sorry, we can't talk about this anymore, but we are out of time.
Best of luck.
Uh, that's it for this week.
Uh, it's Emanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook.
We'll be back again next Tuesday night, 8 p.m., talking about telecommunications, the
world of hacking and, uh, phone freaks and things like that.
If you want to write to us on the internet, OTH at 2600.com, our address here is Off the
Hook, KFWBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 1-0-0-0-5.
And until next week, stay alert, be aware of phone fraud, and don't be a victim.
Good night.
The phone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
From Diddley Bom, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
From Diddley Bom!
I do.
One, two, three, four.
Have one.
Two, three.
One, two, three.
Half, fournewling boom on two.
I was sorry.
One, three, four.
One, two, three, four.
Two, three, four.
Two, three, four.
Four, four, six, four.
Two, three, four.
Two, three, four, five.
Three, four.
Four, five, six, four.
Five, six, three, four.
Two, seven, six, seven, seven, seven, two.
Five, seven, seven, all будете.
Seven, eight, nine, six, seven, eight, six, seven, nine, seven, nine, each, seven.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Psychic phenomena, UFOs, the internet, and more.
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UFO Desk over WBAI, New York.
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Hey, is that my CV or yours?
And good evening.
This is Barbara Nimri-Aziz inviting you to stay tuned for an hour of Islamic Arab magazine programming here on WBAI.
The name of the program was, some years ago,
And I'll see you later.
I heels and I will turn to watch you to-
I'll see you later.
Thank you.