Off The Hook - 1998-09-22
[00:01.950 --> 00:07.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you, Shio Kaku, Jonathan Schell, Admiral Gene Carroll, and Arjun Makajani.
[00:07.650 --> 00:18.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: So come join us and learn about the Cassini and future NASA plutonium launches, the uses of radiation in consumer products, and plans for abolishing nuclear weapons.
[00:18.410 --> 00:24.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: For more information, call 516-324-0655.
[00:24.910 --> 00:29.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's 516-324-0655.
[00:29.510 --> 00:37.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: This has been a public service announcement for WBAI on behalf of the Starr Foundation and Physicians for Social Responsibility.
[00:51.510 --> 00:59.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is Linton Quacey Johnson, and you're tuned to WBAI, 99.5 FM in New York City.
[01:04.530 --> 01:07.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sometime I think my poor work got crazy.
[01:19.100 --> 01:23.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it up.
[02:30.660 --> 02:31.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a good evening, everybody.
[02:31.940 --> 02:32.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: The program is off the hook.
[02:32.740 --> 02:42.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is Emanuel Goldstein here on radio station WBAI in New York, broadcasting to the world via the Internet, as well as 50,000 watts down in New York City on 99.5 FM.
[02:42.640 --> 02:49.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're talking about high technology, the Internet, the future, the past, and, of course, a little bit of the present.
[02:50.060 --> 02:53.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll be taking phone calls, but this is kind of a special show.
[02:53.840 --> 03:00.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's different, because we're imposing a rule just for this one show, just for this one time.
[03:01.660 --> 03:03.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: We want all new callers.
[03:04.300 --> 03:06.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not that we don't like the people that have called before.
[03:06.860 --> 03:07.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: We love these people.
[03:07.700 --> 03:09.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, well, with one exception.
[03:09.520 --> 03:12.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: But let's not get into that.
[03:12.640 --> 03:23.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: We just want some of the new people that might not have as quick a dialing finger as those of you who are pros, who call the station 24 hours a day.
[03:24.420 --> 03:28.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Those kind of people really deserve a chance, you know?
[03:28.380 --> 03:32.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's all get together and give those people a chance so they can call in a little later on.
[03:33.180 --> 03:36.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I understand if you call the number now, you won't get disconnected.
[03:36.440 --> 03:38.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: However, there is a possibility you'll get charged.
[03:38.540 --> 03:43.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not quite sure what the policy with that new phone company is, and we're still in the process of finding that out.
[03:43.140 --> 03:45.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the number is 212-209-2900.
[03:45.840 --> 03:56.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: I should, in the tradition of our present-day society, warn you, because requests are no good unless you back them up with some kind of a warning.
[03:56.580 --> 03:58.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what our society has become, after all.
[03:58.960 --> 04:01.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you can't just make a rule.
[04:01.400 --> 04:07.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to back it up with something unpleasant if you don't follow the rule.
[04:08.480 --> 04:12.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, what will happen if you call up and you're an old caller?
[04:12.640 --> 04:14.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: You will be banned from future shows.
[04:14.640 --> 04:16.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I don't know how long the ban will be in place.
[04:16.580 --> 04:17.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe just one week.
[04:17.460 --> 04:19.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe if we're really angry, maybe it'll be for a long time.
[04:20.620 --> 04:22.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, you know, we have to impose this.
[04:22.940 --> 04:26.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, we just want to get some new people out there.
[04:26.700 --> 04:27.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nothing against the old people.
[04:27.760 --> 04:29.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: The old people can call back next week.
[04:29.140 --> 04:31.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: But for now, the old people, just sit back and listen.
[04:32.340 --> 04:32.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just relax.
[04:33.360 --> 04:37.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Get a cup of lemonade or something, and just, you know, hang out and listen to the radio.
[04:38.260 --> 04:41.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because some of these new people, I'll bet, will be pretty entertaining as well.
[04:41.260 --> 04:43.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, our number is 212-209-2900.
[04:43.960 --> 04:45.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll be taking calls in a few minutes.
[04:46.920 --> 04:47.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's first...
[04:49.420 --> 04:51.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's first, uh, go over some stories
[04:55.330 --> 05:03.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: that we might have missed last week when, uh, all the New York Times things hit the fan, as it were.
[05:05.670 --> 05:07.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's one story...
[05:07.130 --> 05:08.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very hard to do this while I'm talking.
[05:09.390 --> 05:10.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's one story...
[05:12.990 --> 05:14.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: that I'd like to, uh...
[05:14.590 --> 05:16.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would have liked to have read last week.
[05:17.310 --> 05:19.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: But since that was impossible, I'm going to read it this week.
[05:20.050 --> 05:21.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it comes out of Denver.
[05:21.390 --> 05:24.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was on the Associated Press, and I thought it was rather humorous.
[05:26.010 --> 05:27.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: A 28-year-old computer expert...
[05:28.890 --> 05:29.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, he's not a hacker.
[05:29.870 --> 05:30.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: He's an expert.
[05:30.450 --> 05:36.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know when they become experts, expert is accused of hacking into the U.S.
[05:36.370 --> 05:49.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: West computer system and diverting more than 2,500 machines that should have been helping answer phones to his effort to solve the 350-year-old math problem.
[05:50.490 --> 05:55.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's, uh, according to documents filed in a federal court.
[05:55.590 --> 06:00.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Aaron Blosser also allegedly obtained the passwords to 15,000 U.S.
[06:01.330 --> 06:06.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: West workstations and sent much of the coded material he found in them onto the Internet.
[06:07.670 --> 06:12.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: According to an FBI search warrant, served at his Lakewood, Colorado home.
[06:13.150 --> 06:15.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: This was about two weeks ago.
[06:17.840 --> 06:25.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: The warrant says, Blosser, a contract computer consultant who worked for a vendor that was hired by Denver-based U.S.
[06:25.800 --> 06:27.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: West, is under investigation for computer fraud.
[06:27.960 --> 06:39.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: In a telephone interview with the Denver Post, Blosser said he has not been charged with any crime and said he made no money from his unauthorized use of U.S.
[06:40.000 --> 06:40.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: West computers.
[06:41.060 --> 06:48.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: He also failed in his mathematical quest, which was the search for a new prime number.
[06:50.880 --> 06:52.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Search for a new prize.
[06:52.140 --> 06:57.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: If there's not enough of them floating around already, they want yet another one.
[06:59.440 --> 07:10.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: No doubt to be used for some, uh, encryption algorithm that would be used then to commit crimes, which would then result in the loss of hundreds of dollars to somebody.
[07:10.340 --> 07:10.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[07:11.520 --> 07:12.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what they should charge him with.
[07:14.340 --> 07:20.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: No more crimes that actually happen, just crimes that could happen if we don't stamp them out.
[07:26.410 --> 07:29.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've worked on this math problem for a long time, said Blosser.
[07:29.450 --> 07:31.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: When I started working at U.S.
[07:31.130 --> 07:34.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: West, all that computational power was just too tempting for me.
[07:37.150 --> 07:51.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Blosser enlisted 2,585 computers to work at various times during the day and night and quickly ran up to, uh, ran up 10.63 years of computer processing time in his search for a new prime number.
[07:52.430 --> 07:52.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: U.S.
[07:52.750 --> 07:58.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: West spokesman David Beege called the hacking unprecedented in company history.
[07:58.330 --> 08:01.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: It would be virtually impossible to do it from the outside, he said.
[08:02.050 --> 08:05.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Blosser's alleged hacking was discovered when computers at U.S.
[08:05.710 --> 08:17.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: West's facility in Phoenix, which normally respond in three to five seconds, took as long as five minutes to retrieve telephone numbers, and customers just thought it was normal service.
[08:18.250 --> 08:18.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[08:19.150 --> 08:27.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I wonder if that resulted in the strike, you know, if some supervisors turned into, you know, real hard asses as a result of such poor work performance.
[08:27.750 --> 08:31.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, taking five minutes to get a phone number, that could result in a few memos being posted.
[08:32.170 --> 08:38.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that might have upset the employees so much that they said, look, we're not going to take this kind of stuff anymore, and they just walked out.
[08:38.850 --> 08:46.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the whole thing, the whole thing was because this one guy was trying to calculate a prime number on U.S.
[08:46.850 --> 08:47.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: West computers.
[08:49.810 --> 08:52.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: It seems to me that government computers would do that better.
[08:54.030 --> 09:04.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not that I'm saying, not that I'm suggesting in any way, shape, or form that somebody access government computers and try to figure out new numbers.
[09:06.590 --> 09:10.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Although, you know, when you think about it, isn't that really what government should be doing?
[09:10.670 --> 09:12.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trying to figure out new things?
[09:12.550 --> 09:22.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Instead of trying to just, you know, kill people in foreign lands and indict people for things nobody really cares about and all kinds of other wasted time.
[09:23.490 --> 09:26.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, Blosser's alleged hacking was discovered...
[09:26.450 --> 09:27.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: A lot of press for this.
[09:27.530 --> 09:34.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: His alleged hacking was discovered, as we said, when the time was rather far-extended on looking up phone numbers.
[09:35.070 --> 09:45.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: The computers were so slow in mid-May that customer calls had to be rerouted to other states and at one point the delays threatened to close down the Phoenix Service Delivery Center.
[09:47.890 --> 09:49.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: On May 27th, U.S.
[09:49.630 --> 09:53.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: West intrusion response team found a software program on the system that captured U.S.
[09:53.770 --> 09:57.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: West computers to work on a project unrelated to U.S.
[09:57.430 --> 09:58.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: West services.
[10:00.390 --> 10:12.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: The anti-hacking team traced the software to a terminal at the company's Littleton offices where they found Blosser, a self-described math geek.
[10:28.500 --> 10:34.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: And an important story that we'd like to circulate that's being passed around the internet
[10:38.510 --> 10:46.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: technically this is spam because I got it without asking for it but I'm going to let this one go only because I thought it was interesting.
[10:48.490 --> 11:17.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: make money fast the easy I'm not going to read that one this one has to do with the .us domain that's right there's a .us domain do you ever wonder why we're the only country that doesn't use a two-letter designation seems kind of unfair well anyway the National Telecommunications and Information Administration known as NTIA and they're part of the Department of Commerce has asked for public
[11:17.490 --> 11:30.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: comments regarding the .us internet domain and how it should be used because this issue has important implications for non-commercial use of the internet the NTIA needs to hear from you
[11:34.550 --> 12:02.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: why the u.s domain issue is important well right now there are very few internet addresses ending in .us as opposed to the more popular .com and .org top level domains the NTIA wants to change this but net action along with the domain name rights coalition I'm not kidding DNRC that's right domain name rights coalition straight out of the 60s they're concerned about how the NTIA will structure the
[12:02.930 --> 12:29.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: governance of the .us domain space specifically we want to ensure that the proposed new .us governing body will uphold the rights of non-commercial speech on the internet and prevent the .us domain from being restricted geographically by linking all .us domain addresses to postal addresses net action believes that the .us domain should not be dominated by corporate interest at the expense of
[12:29.910 --> 12:32.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: private individuals community groups and
[12:38.230 --> 13:03.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: submitting comments on the issue to NTIA before the October 5th 1998 deadline our colleagues in the DNRC who are following this issue closely believe that the NTIA will be more responsive to concerns about non-commercial speech aspects of .us domain governance if they hear from numerous individuals and organizations before the comment period ends on October 5th for that reason we are urging you to
[13:03.150 --> 13:05.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: submit comments rather than inviting you to co-sign
[13:09.650 --> 13:41.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: comments are being accepted by email to make participation easy we're circulating the draft of net actions comments which I might read part of the email address to send comments to is usdomain at ntia.doc.gov usdomain at ntia.doc.gov if you prefer to submit comments on paper you will need to include a computer disc that's right they don't take paper anymore with a copy of your comments in ASCII
[13:41.950 --> 13:52.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: word perfect or microsoft word indicating the version of word perfect or word mail the comments and disc can you believe this you can't you can't write a letter anymore you have to send the disc
[14:07.790 --> 14:13.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: D.C., I'm sorry, Constitution Avenue Northwest, Washington, D.C., 20230.
[14:14.530 --> 14:30.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you want to find out more information, you can go to the NTIA's webpage, www.ntia.doc.gov slash ntiahome slash domain name slash usrfc slash dot usrfc dot htm.
[14:30.630 --> 14:34.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I should say that dot is spelled D-O-T, usrfc dot htm.
[14:35.550 --> 14:39.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a good thing we put these shows up on the net, because I don't think anybody could have possibly written that down in time.
[14:41.610 --> 14:52.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a more detailed explanation of net action and DNRC's position on the issue is located on DNRC's website, www.domain-name.org slash usdomain.html.
[14:54.490 --> 14:57.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's all kinds of controversy surrounding this.
[14:57.330 --> 15:14.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: The .us top-level domain provides the United States with a golden opportunity to alleviate overcrowding in the .com and .org domains, to experiment with new forms of Internet governance, and to present an example to the world of how the American values of free speech and open communication go hand-in-hand with the Internet.
[15:14.370 --> 15:14.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ha!
[15:16.330 --> 15:17.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, what has this person been smoking?
[15:18.070 --> 15:18.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[15:18.550 --> 15:22.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, that would be something if that actually happened.
[15:23.010 --> 15:28.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: NTIA has taken the first crucial step by recognizing the value of the .us domain and promoting these goals.
[15:28.770 --> 15:40.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: However, we feel that certain issues involving policy guidelines, guidance, rather, of this domain, and the potential conflict of commercial speech versus other types of speech need to be addressed more strongly by NTIA.
[15:41.870 --> 15:43.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, I'm not really sure where they're going with this.
[15:43.710 --> 15:46.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't really know exactly how it all works.
[15:47.010 --> 15:50.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I do know that there are a bunch of .us's out there.
[15:50.310 --> 15:54.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: There are organizations that manage .us top-level domains.
[15:54.690 --> 15:55.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, 2600 has one.
[15:56.030 --> 15:59.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what it is, though, because it spells out the whole town that we're in.
[15:59.410 --> 16:00.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very confusing.
[16:00.670 --> 16:04.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's middle-island.ny.us or something like that.
[16:05.550 --> 16:08.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we never get any mail at it anyway, but it's kind of cool to have.
[16:08.570 --> 16:10.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: So anyway, that's all the information on that.
[16:10.250 --> 16:14.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: If there's anything you'd like to share with us, please give us a call or send us an email.
[16:14.890 --> 16:25.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: O-T-H at 2600.com Now, we had somebody call the show last week concerning the New York Times hack, the hack of the webpage.
[16:26.050 --> 16:28.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Still no new word on that.
[16:28.570 --> 16:33.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's kind of funny, though, how the Times has been rather quiet about just what it was all about.
[16:33.930 --> 16:35.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: They wouldn't tell anybody how it was done.
[16:35.710 --> 16:36.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, they're a newspaper.
[16:36.870 --> 16:37.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're a newspaper.
[16:37.450 --> 16:39.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: They should be telling the news.
[16:39.330 --> 16:40.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that was news.
[16:40.470 --> 16:42.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was something that definitely should be focused upon.
[16:42.950 --> 16:43.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: They should be investigating it.
[16:44.030 --> 16:46.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: And instead, they seem to have turned the whole thing over to law enforcement.
[16:47.310 --> 16:51.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're not actually going to tell any of the details to the public, which I think the public has the right to know.
[16:52.070 --> 16:53.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: For instance, what were the security holes?
[16:53.850 --> 16:54.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: How did it happen?
[16:54.650 --> 16:56.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: What is the aftermath?
[16:57.070 --> 16:57.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: What is the aftermath?
[16:57.250 --> 16:57.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there an investigation?
[16:58.450 --> 17:00.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Has the investigation turned up anything?
[17:00.810 --> 17:05.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, things that, if the Times wasn't involved, maybe they'd be exploring.
[17:06.010 --> 17:25.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: What I thought was particularly funny was that we were trying for quite some time to get the Times to take notice of important issues, such as the Kevin Mitnick case, the involvement of John Markoff, their writer in the capture of Kevin Mitnick, and the Free Kevin movement that has started as of this spring.
[17:25.930 --> 17:37.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: We tried to contact them in July to let them know about the demonstration that was taking place outside Miramax headquarters in New York, and we got no response whatsoever.
[17:37.390 --> 17:37.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nothing.
[17:37.870 --> 17:38.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Zilch.
[17:38.530 --> 17:39.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: No calls back.
[17:39.690 --> 17:43.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: No request for us to stop sending them faxes.
[17:44.350 --> 17:47.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And not even a reporter or photographer showed up.
[17:47.590 --> 17:51.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, not surprisingly, the next day there was nothing in the newspaper about it.
[17:52.770 --> 18:01.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: The first report the New York Times had that there was a demonstration outside Miramax against the takedown film, which puts Kevin Mitnick in a bad light.
[18:01.350 --> 18:06.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: The first indication of that was the day after their website got hacked.
[18:06.390 --> 18:14.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, that's when they finally catch up and say, oh, there's all this stuff going on that we should tell you about.
[18:14.310 --> 18:18.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the only reason we're even bringing it up now is because somebody did it for us.
[18:18.130 --> 18:24.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because somebody got there and revamped our webpage and told the world about all the things that we're not telling you about.
[18:24.730 --> 18:26.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, we're going to acknowledge that.
[18:26.350 --> 18:28.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to acknowledge, yeah, there was a demonstration outside Miramax.
[18:29.070 --> 18:33.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, there were pro-Kevin sympathizers and things like that.
[18:33.270 --> 18:37.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, where were you when we needed, you know, real news coverage?
[18:37.390 --> 18:40.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: When we needed people to tell the folks what's going on?
[18:41.450 --> 18:43.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bad job as far as that kind of thing goes.
[18:43.490 --> 18:44.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really, really pretty sad.
[18:44.850 --> 18:55.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, someone called up the show last week saying how they had heard on Fox that Kevin Mitnick was the leader of these people.
[18:55.210 --> 18:56.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was utter nonsense.
[18:56.910 --> 18:59.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he wrote them a letter saying just that.
[18:59.170 --> 19:04.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Got a letter back, a form letter saying, thank you for writing to us and please do this to get a free gift from us.
[19:04.790 --> 19:06.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, you know, they don't care at all.
[19:06.590 --> 19:09.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: They don't even acknowledge what you say.
[19:09.750 --> 19:11.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: It goes straight into the trash.
[19:11.490 --> 19:16.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's just no real acknowledgement whatsoever.
[19:16.270 --> 19:17.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just a form letter.
[19:17.390 --> 19:19.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, nothing ever was read on TV.
[19:20.070 --> 19:22.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: And nothing was ever acknowledged that they had made a big mistake.
[19:23.270 --> 19:29.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, that dog rapist guy that wrote the Daily News story, he never acknowledged anything that he got the story wrong.
[19:29.650 --> 19:35.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, and said that Kevin Mitnick got arrested in 1983 for hacking into the Pentagon.
[19:35.790 --> 19:37.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, come on already.
[19:37.570 --> 19:41.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just make these things up and turn them into news and you don't have to answer to anybody?
[19:42.170 --> 19:42.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm afraid not.
[19:43.170 --> 19:44.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm afraid you do have to answer to people.
[19:44.670 --> 19:49.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you don't answer to them in your own pages, then you'll have to answer to them in some other way.
[19:51.050 --> 19:53.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you can't really keep people quiet.
[19:53.230 --> 19:56.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that's the theme of the 20th century is you can't keep people quiet.
[19:59.630 --> 20:06.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, I wrote to my letter, or the New York Times a letter, because I was rather upset with the reaction to all this.
[20:08.110 --> 20:10.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I figured, you know, maybe it would mean something.
[20:11.150 --> 20:20.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe they'd actually take a look at this and, who knows, print it maybe as a reaction to what it was that happened to them.
[20:20.970 --> 20:29.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe, you know, see it as valuable, helpful hints that are coming from someone who's trying to give them a, you know, a hand.
[20:30.690 --> 20:32.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, to the editor.
[20:32.390 --> 20:35.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: So the Times is surprised that its website was hacked.
[20:35.650 --> 20:38.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not, and I doubt very many people in the online community are.
[20:39.110 --> 20:47.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: For more than four years, the Times has been involved in the pursuit and capture of Kevin Mitnick, who, by your definition, was the most wanted man in cyberspace.
[20:47.410 --> 21:00.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, on July 4th, 1994, you ran a front-page story complete with Mitnick's picture that reinforced this notion when, at the time, the accusations against him were so trivial as to be absurd.
[21:01.350 --> 21:09.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Once the front-page story appeared and the FBI was made to look as if they were incapable of capturing a computer geek, the search for Mitnick began in earnest.
[21:09.510 --> 21:21.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: When Mitnick was finally apprehended on February 15th, 1995, Times reporter John Markoff, author of the July 4th piece, was on the scene, having actually played a part in helping the FBI track him down.
[21:22.110 --> 21:26.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Within a week, Markoff had signed a six-figure book contract followed closely by a movie deal.
[21:27.250 --> 21:36.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Although many saw a conflict of interest with the reporter getting so personally involved in the story and profiting so greatly from it, the Times said nothing.
[21:37.670 --> 21:41.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Years have gone by, and Mitnick has yet to have a trial.
[21:41.470 --> 21:46.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: He has never been granted a bail hearing, something even the most heinous of terrorists are afforded.
[21:46.730 --> 21:54.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: After nearly four years in prison, Mitnick is still not allowed to have visitors outside of three immediate family members and his lawyer.
[21:54.550 --> 22:04.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: This kind of treatment for someone who has never been accused of stealing, causing damage, or being violent is a very big news item in the Internet and human rights communities.
[22:04.010 --> 22:07.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the Times has been silent.
[22:08.050 --> 22:10.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: What happened on Sunday was illegal, yes.
[22:10.790 --> 22:19.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: But mostly, it was embarrassing to the Times, because in effect, your printing presses were used against you to tell the story you have declined to acknowledge.
[22:19.910 --> 22:30.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Rather than vow to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, you would be well advised to learn from this, both on a security level and on a journalistic integrity one.
[22:31.210 --> 22:33.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Remember, the net is a lot more equal than the real world.
[22:34.270 --> 22:38.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: If the Times doesn't get the story right, some 14-year-old from Topeka will.
[22:39.690 --> 22:41.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, they didn't even respond to that.
[22:41.670 --> 22:44.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: They didn't even send me a little acknowledgement saying, hey, we got your letter.
[22:45.070 --> 22:45.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, nothing.
[22:45.910 --> 22:46.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not a thing.
[22:46.570 --> 22:47.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was sent a week ago.
[22:47.630 --> 22:50.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's old news now.
[22:50.590 --> 22:51.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, they can't print it.
[22:51.730 --> 22:53.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now it's too far gone.
[22:53.670 --> 22:58.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, you know, just something back saying, thanks for the letter, we can't print it because it sucks.
[22:58.270 --> 22:59.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, something like that.
[22:59.530 --> 23:02.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, you know, newspapers used to do when you sent them letters.
[23:02.570 --> 23:03.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: But no, nothing.
[23:03.430 --> 23:03.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nothing.
[23:03.710 --> 23:04.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not a thing.
[23:04.970 --> 23:07.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: All this crap about Kenneth Starr and Clinton.
[23:08.150 --> 23:09.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's all over the place, you know.
[23:09.950 --> 23:11.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like the National Enquirer.
[23:11.810 --> 23:12.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: No problem there.
[23:15.670 --> 23:17.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, I wrote a letter to CNN.
[23:17.310 --> 23:18.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was writing a lot of letters this week.
[23:19.450 --> 23:21.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because I didn't like their coverage either.
[23:21.730 --> 23:24.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: CNN is better because they're more interactive.
[23:24.450 --> 23:27.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: But they didn't acknowledge this either, which was kind of annoying.
[23:28.250 --> 23:33.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Your story on the New York Times webpage hack contains a serious error, one which has been spread throughout the media.
[23:34.250 --> 23:40.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Kevin Mitnick has not been in prison since 1995 because he was, quote, convicted of computer-related fraud charges, unquote.
[23:41.510 --> 23:47.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Rather, he has been held without trial, without bail, and without visitors outside of a media family and lawyers for three and a half years.
[23:47.990 --> 23:51.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: By the time his trial begins, he will have been in prison for four years.
[23:51.470 --> 24:00.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: In that time, New York Times reporter John Markoff, among others, have gotten rich telling their story of Mitnick, and now a major movie is being made at Kevin's expense.
[24:00.730 --> 24:06.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: The irony is that what he's charged with is less of a crime than what these pranksters pulled off today.
[24:06.370 --> 24:08.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Today being two Sundays ago.
[24:08.950 --> 24:13.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: People on the net are angry about the Mitnick case and the lack of attention it has gotten in the media.
[24:13.490 --> 24:16.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: This frustration will lead to more such expressions in the future.
[24:17.250 --> 24:18.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: It wasn't a threat.
[24:18.350 --> 24:19.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure they're going to take it as a threat.
[24:19.630 --> 24:20.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it's a fact, you know.
[24:20.930 --> 24:22.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: People will express themselves.
[24:23.030 --> 24:26.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's regrettable because it winds up bringing bad publicity to the Mitnick case.
[24:26.710 --> 24:27.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I spoke with Kevin tonight.
[24:27.790 --> 24:29.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: He was very upset that this happened in his name.
[24:29.810 --> 24:32.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: The fact is, none of us can control this.
[24:32.150 --> 24:34.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: One way or another, people will express themselves.
[24:35.370 --> 24:38.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I didn't get to express myself in any CNN forum.
[24:38.370 --> 24:40.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just sent that into a black hole, and who knows?
[24:40.930 --> 24:42.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who knows if anybody even saw it?
[24:42.990 --> 24:46.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I figured by sharing it tonight, at least somebody will hear it.
[24:47.950 --> 24:52.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, this one final note.
[24:52.610 --> 24:54.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a letter from a listener, and then we'll take some phone calls.
[24:54.750 --> 24:56.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[24:57.650 --> 24:59.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Dear Emanuel, glad you had fun with Freddy.
[24:59.350 --> 25:01.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: The phone fraud fox a couple weeks ago.
[25:01.330 --> 25:01.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was fun.
[25:02.050 --> 25:02.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: It really was.
[25:02.550 --> 25:03.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope to meet Freddy someday.
[25:04.910 --> 25:10.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Following up on the caller's question on reducing ISDN costs, there's a way to cut monthly service charges, too.
[25:10.610 --> 25:16.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: According to the tariff on file with the PSC, a customer's first circuit-switched voice channel is free.
[25:17.590 --> 25:25.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oddly, a second CSV channel costs $7, but if the second channel is circuit-switched voice slash data, that only costs $2.
[25:25.950 --> 25:28.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: On another topic, I've signed up with MCI for long distance.
[25:29.010 --> 25:33.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Their MCI-1 savings plan gives a rate of $0.09 per minute, 24-6.
[25:35.090 --> 25:37.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: 24-6, not 24-7.
[25:38.110 --> 25:39.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: The seventh day, it's $10 a minute.
[25:40.010 --> 25:40.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's...
[25:40.530 --> 25:42.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sunday, it's only 5 cents a minute.
[25:42.570 --> 25:43.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Pretty good.
[25:43.190 --> 25:44.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a $5 minimum per month, though.
[25:45.250 --> 25:45.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Minimum, though.
[25:45.930 --> 25:46.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not a charge.
[25:46.610 --> 25:48.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: AT&T, I think, has a charge, which is not a minimum.
[25:49.470 --> 25:50.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that's definitely different.
[25:50.710 --> 25:54.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have three lines dividing up my long distance, making the minimum a pain in the butt.
[25:55.550 --> 25:57.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you could turn long distance off.
[25:57.370 --> 25:58.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm told this works.
[25:58.650 --> 26:01.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, somebody go out there and try it, because I don't have time to deal with Bell Atlantic.
[26:01.930 --> 26:02.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: They put you on hold forever.
[26:02.830 --> 26:04.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just don't have time for it.
[26:04.210 --> 26:09.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if you turn long distance off on your phone, you say, I want no long distance carrier whatsoever.
[26:10.470 --> 26:11.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Get rid of them.
[26:11.590 --> 26:12.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're all evil.
[26:12.610 --> 26:13.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're all tools of Satan.
[26:13.950 --> 26:15.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't want them on my phone line.
[26:15.810 --> 26:24.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: They'll take it off, so that when you dial one plus a number somewhere else, you'll get one of those little recordings that says, sorry, you can't do that.
[26:25.290 --> 26:30.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you feel you've reached an error, go and make the error again, or whatever they tell you to do.
[26:32.310 --> 26:38.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, you can still actually make long distance calls, I believe, by dialing a carrier access code, 1010XXX.
[26:39.550 --> 26:41.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you won't.
[26:41.130 --> 26:44.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this is something that I don't know has been proven yet.
[26:44.210 --> 26:47.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I think enough people have said it to me where I almost believe it.
[26:48.130 --> 27:03.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: You won't get that annoying monthly charge for long distance from whatever your long distance company is, AT&T, MCI, whatever, where they charge each line, what is it, $3 for just having a line, or whatever they got away with this time.
[27:03.490 --> 27:04.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, try that.
[27:04.810 --> 27:06.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Try taking all long distance service off.
[27:06.950 --> 27:11.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, when you do that, you don't qualify for things like MCI-1 savings plan.
[27:11.590 --> 27:16.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to pay certain long distance charges.
[27:16.490 --> 27:23.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And sometimes, some really nefarious phone companies, I think AT&T is one of them, charge you every time you use a carrier access code.
[27:24.050 --> 27:29.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, a buck or two, which is really annoying, too, and sort of defeats the whole purpose of that system.
[27:30.130 --> 27:31.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, that's a possibility.
[27:31.570 --> 27:35.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, if you make a lot of long distance calls, it might be worth it to pay that stupid charge.
[27:36.710 --> 27:38.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you don't, you might have to be a little creative.
[27:39.610 --> 27:46.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: MCI also has an MCI-1 net savings, where customers sign up via the website and get billed by email.
[27:46.630 --> 27:48.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Then the bills are paid by credit card.
[27:49.190 --> 27:52.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: The rates are the same, $0.09 and $0.05, but there's no minimum.
[27:53.150 --> 27:53.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: The catch?
[27:53.830 --> 27:54.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have a credit card.
[27:54.910 --> 27:56.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's just too bad, isn't it?
[27:57.050 --> 28:00.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, the best part of this miniseries came while schmoozing with an MCI employee.
[28:00.850 --> 28:04.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mentioned really wanting the net plan, but I didn't have a credit card.
[28:04.790 --> 28:06.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: She sympathized and said, would you like mine?
[28:09.190 --> 28:12.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, no, but there are some that will do that, actually.
[28:12.550 --> 28:13.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: There really are.
[28:13.790 --> 28:14.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: People they hire.
[28:15.390 --> 28:18.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: She sympathized and said, do you watch the Home Shopping Network?
[28:19.310 --> 28:20.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I told her, no!
[28:21.430 --> 28:22.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't even have a TV!
[28:23.650 --> 28:26.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: She replied, well, maybe I can find you that number.
[28:27.450 --> 28:31.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know I really shouldn't, but what the bleep.
[28:33.530 --> 28:35.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I sat on hold for a bit.
[28:35.630 --> 28:38.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Half hour later, when she returned, she gave me the number...
[28:38.970 --> 28:45.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: 1-800-334-0468.
[28:46.790 --> 28:50.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the same plan, but with a slightly more tolerable $3 minimum.
[28:51.810 --> 28:52.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Saved two bucks.
[28:52.890 --> 28:53.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[28:54.750 --> 28:55.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's kind of weird.
[28:57.170 --> 28:59.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I got their PR mailing that discloses the rates, etc.
[28:59.870 --> 29:00.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: And here's the real catch.
[29:01.330 --> 29:06.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: In-state long distance is $0.25 per minute during peak hours and $0.10 other times.
[29:06.830 --> 29:08.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: No $0.05 Sundays either.
[29:08.930 --> 29:09.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you've got to be careful.
[29:10.090 --> 29:11.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, here's the thing.
[29:11.270 --> 29:12.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's not regional.
[29:13.430 --> 29:16.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Regional is within our area.
[29:16.230 --> 29:20.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, it's Eastern Suffolk to Westchester.
[29:20.470 --> 29:22.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's New York City to Rockland.
[29:23.210 --> 29:25.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's Nassau to Suffolk even.
[29:25.490 --> 29:26.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's regional calling.
[29:26.490 --> 29:28.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Local calling is within your little area.
[29:28.910 --> 29:30.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Western Suffolk to Western Suffolk.
[29:30.370 --> 29:32.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: But Western Suffolk to Eastern Suffolk, those are two regions.
[29:32.890 --> 29:34.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that's regional calling.
[29:34.370 --> 29:44.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, there's been a lot of nasty stuff going on in recent months where long distance companies try to fool you into signing up for regional and long distance.
[29:44.770 --> 29:49.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the result is you pay far more than you would if you stuck with your local company, Bell Atlantic in this case.
[29:49.850 --> 29:52.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, in-state long distance is one step above that.
[29:53.030 --> 29:56.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's something that you're stuck with with your long distance company no matter what.
[29:56.690 --> 30:01.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's no differentiation between in-state long distance and out-of-state long distance.
[30:01.890 --> 30:04.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, New York to, say, Albany, that's in-state.
[30:05.050 --> 30:07.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's also long distance because that's not regional.
[30:07.650 --> 30:10.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: New York to Buffalo, that's also the same thing.
[30:10.370 --> 30:12.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Buffalo to Albany, it's confusing.
[30:17.310 --> 30:25.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I guess that leads this person to ask the question, is there a website that lists the various carriers and perhaps their rates?
[30:26.630 --> 30:28.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: If there is, I'd love to know about it.
[30:29.010 --> 30:33.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, listeners, please either email us or call us with that information.
[30:33.530 --> 30:40.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, if you're an old listener that has called the show before, you're not allowed to call tonight because we have a special show of only new people.
[30:40.350 --> 30:42.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not necessarily new people that have just landed on the earth.
[30:43.070 --> 30:48.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, people who have never called the show before, and we'd like them to call us for the first time.
[30:48.750 --> 30:49.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's nothing to be afraid of.
[30:49.890 --> 30:50.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's nothing to be afraid of.
[30:50.710 --> 30:57.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you've heard the kind of people that call over the last few years, you know that anybody can call and not be made a fool of.
[30:58.170 --> 30:58.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's our job.
[30:59.170 --> 31:01.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[31:02.190 --> 31:07.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, I got a bunch of new phone features on one of my phone lines.
[31:07.290 --> 31:08.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's... Isaac, you're here.
[31:09.890 --> 31:10.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[31:10.750 --> 31:11.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Your mic is not working.
[31:11.750 --> 31:11.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: There you go.
[31:12.070 --> 31:12.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not working?
[31:12.670 --> 31:12.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[31:12.910 --> 31:15.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're a Bell Atlantic customer as well.
[31:15.970 --> 31:17.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: So far as my phone telephone, yeah.
[31:17.910 --> 31:20.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's just an adventure every day.
[31:21.050 --> 31:23.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Every single day is a... something new is found.
[31:23.950 --> 31:24.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[31:24.490 --> 31:30.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I had this phone line that... it was stuck on, you know, that old system called IntelliDial.
[31:30.790 --> 31:31.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did I ever tell you about this?
[31:32.090 --> 31:32.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[31:32.610 --> 31:35.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's sort... I don't want to say it's like Centrix because it's not.
[31:35.550 --> 31:36.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's horrible.
[31:36.510 --> 31:37.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's awful.
[31:37.290 --> 31:38.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: It sucks.
[31:38.170 --> 31:38.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the worst.
[31:39.170 --> 31:43.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, basically the only thing it's good for is that you can transfer calls all over the place.
[31:43.350 --> 31:45.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you hit flash, dial number, hang up, and it goes there.
[31:46.070 --> 31:46.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not like three-way.
[31:47.270 --> 31:52.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: It is like three-way except you can use it as three-way or if you hang up, then it actually connects the two lines.
[31:53.410 --> 32:01.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's meant as sort of a small home business type of phone thing where you can dial... you have to dial pound something and another phone rings.
[32:01.570 --> 32:08.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's an intercom call, but you can't tell it's an intercom call because it rings just the same way, and I don't know why just hitting the button for a speed dial wouldn't be the same exact effect.
[32:10.130 --> 32:15.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: The only reason I kept that service was for the call transfer, but, you know, after a while, I get fed up with it.
[32:15.350 --> 32:17.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: They have this thing, crippled caller ID.
[32:17.390 --> 32:18.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's my term for it.
[32:18.770 --> 32:19.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Crippled caller ID.
[32:19.810 --> 32:25.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, where basically caller ID doesn't work at all on that service unless it's within the same central office.
[32:26.370 --> 32:30.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: A few years ago, I noticed this, and I said, you know, it only works in Suffolk County.
[32:30.750 --> 32:34.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: It only works in the region, so they said they'd fix it, and they fixed it all right.
[32:34.790 --> 32:37.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: They made it only work in the central office, a smaller zone.
[32:39.230 --> 32:42.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I figured, you know, after a while, they'd catch up.
[32:42.930 --> 32:43.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: They'd make it work.
[32:43.730 --> 32:45.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: They'd make star-6-9 work, star-6-6.
[32:45.830 --> 32:50.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: All these features that everybody else is using, they'd finally get compatible with this system.
[32:51.050 --> 32:55.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so I talked to them a couple of weeks ago, and I said, look, is this ever going to happen?
[32:56.150 --> 33:00.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And she said, well, you know, that system is just grandfathered in, and we're just waiting for it to die.
[33:02.310 --> 33:04.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's how they deal with their old customers.
[33:04.970 --> 33:06.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's how they deal with their old services.
[33:06.410 --> 33:07.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: They don't try to make them work.
[33:07.990 --> 33:09.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: They just wait for them to break.
[33:09.570 --> 33:12.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: They wait for all the customers to just get fed up and walk away.
[33:13.990 --> 33:15.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I got fed up.
[33:15.430 --> 33:16.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I said, look...
[33:16.490 --> 33:17.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I could see that happening.
[33:17.290 --> 33:18.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it was ridiculous.
[33:18.970 --> 33:22.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: And she looked at my phone bill, and she said, you know, you're paying so much for this.
[33:24.210 --> 33:29.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're paying more for call waiting and call forwarding than you would pay for this new feature we have.
[33:29.630 --> 33:30.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not really that new.
[33:30.310 --> 33:32.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's about a year old, where you get all these features.
[33:32.090 --> 33:33.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: You get something like 16 features.
[33:34.130 --> 33:40.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And right away, you know, it's less than those two features you're paying for, which you also get with those 16 features.
[33:41.010 --> 33:42.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm like, you know, I must be some kind of idiot.
[33:42.810 --> 33:46.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: If I want to stick with this thing, you know, just being stubborn.
[33:47.030 --> 33:50.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just to transfer calls, which I don't really do anyway, but I just think it's a neat feature.
[33:50.910 --> 33:52.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think they should introduce it.
[33:52.570 --> 33:54.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I maintain that.
[33:54.730 --> 33:57.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: But with this, I get the voice dialing.
[33:57.650 --> 33:59.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I get call forwarding.
[34:00.410 --> 34:05.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: All kinds of call ID, call name ID, call or name ID on call waiting.
[34:05.710 --> 34:06.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: What?
[34:06.110 --> 34:06.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[34:07.090 --> 34:09.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then, here's the real clincher.
[34:10.150 --> 34:12.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I get two additional phone numbers.
[34:12.870 --> 34:14.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Two additional...
[34:14.250 --> 34:16.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: You have the one line, but two additional numbers.
[34:16.590 --> 34:16.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's one line.
[34:17.090 --> 34:21.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: One super master line here that has all this stuff going on.
[34:21.510 --> 34:24.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I get two additional phone numbers going to that line.
[34:25.070 --> 34:26.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not an outgoing number.
[34:27.010 --> 34:27.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's an incoming number.
[34:27.910 --> 34:30.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: And people call me and they get distinctive ringing.
[34:30.490 --> 34:31.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or I get distinctive ringing.
[34:31.890 --> 34:32.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's really silly.
[34:33.030 --> 34:33.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's really silly.
[34:33.710 --> 34:38.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: So either I get a regular ring, or I get a short long, or I get a long short.
[34:39.630 --> 34:40.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Depending on which number you got.
[34:40.690 --> 34:41.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Depending on which number it is.
[34:42.730 --> 34:47.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm like, boy, you know, all I want is a service.
[34:47.110 --> 34:48.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't need all of this.
[34:48.670 --> 34:53.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, and the reason why we're running out of phone numbers and area calls is because...
[34:53.550 --> 34:54.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I was just going to say that.
[34:54.250 --> 35:00.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Jackballs like you are giving out all of these phone numbers to people who don't need them in the first place.
[35:00.630 --> 35:03.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't... I already have ten phone lines.
[35:03.370 --> 35:05.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't need three numbers for a single one of them.
[35:06.330 --> 35:12.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Imagine, God forbid, if I was to get this service on all ten of my lines, I'd have 30 phone numbers.
[35:13.810 --> 35:14.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: 30 phone numbers.
[35:15.130 --> 35:16.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Where does it end?
[35:16.570 --> 35:18.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I ask, can I not get this?
[35:18.210 --> 35:19.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, you have to get this.
[35:19.090 --> 35:19.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is part of the package.
[35:20.550 --> 35:21.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm stuck with these numbers.
[35:21.690 --> 35:22.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't even know what the numbers are.
[35:22.870 --> 35:23.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what they are.
[35:24.010 --> 35:24.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no way of finding it.
[35:25.230 --> 35:26.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: They told me what they were.
[35:27.230 --> 35:30.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: But how much... I didn't write them down because I really didn't want them.
[35:30.290 --> 35:31.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I have them.
[35:31.450 --> 35:32.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't 958 them.
[35:32.990 --> 35:34.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't dial because I can't dial out on them.
[35:35.770 --> 35:37.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: You get the original number for 958 and...
[35:37.950 --> 35:40.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you get the original one because you're making outgoing calls on that.
[35:41.090 --> 35:41.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's really silly.
[35:41.990 --> 35:47.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: The only way I can ever find out what these numbers are is, A, to spend a half hour waiting for Bell Atlantic to pick up their phone.
[35:47.490 --> 35:48.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is never going to happen.
[35:48.350 --> 35:49.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't really care that much.
[35:49.850 --> 35:52.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or, B, hear the distinctive ringing coming in.
[35:52.330 --> 35:53.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Run to the phone.
[35:53.270 --> 35:53.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Grab it.
[35:53.770 --> 35:56.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Talk to the person who obviously called the wrong number and asked them what they dialed.
[35:57.770 --> 35:58.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know?
[35:59.350 --> 36:02.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what I have to do to find out what my new phone number is going to be.
[36:03.310 --> 36:03.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Two of them.
[36:04.070 --> 36:05.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have two of these numbers.
[36:05.790 --> 36:07.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I don't need this.
[36:07.530 --> 36:09.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: These are services I never asked for.
[36:09.050 --> 36:10.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'd like to have call transferring.
[36:10.430 --> 36:10.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can I have that?
[36:11.030 --> 36:11.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry, sir.
[36:11.550 --> 36:12.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: We can't do that.
[36:12.150 --> 36:13.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you do it!
[36:13.250 --> 36:16.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have it on the IntelliDial crippled grandfathered service.
[36:17.130 --> 36:18.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have that.
[36:18.090 --> 36:23.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you can't give it to me on my real, nice, new phone line with multiple phone numbers.
[36:23.690 --> 36:27.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Caller name, ID on call, waiting, forwarding, whatnot.
[36:29.770 --> 36:32.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, we're not driving this boat.
[36:32.770 --> 36:33.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know who is.
[36:33.910 --> 36:35.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think anyone is.
[36:35.270 --> 36:38.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: At the moment, I think it's just going freeform somewhere.
[36:39.190 --> 36:40.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Getting all these ridiculous services.
[36:41.030 --> 36:42.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, what am I going to do with distinctive ringing?
[36:42.990 --> 36:44.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I have an answering machine.
[36:44.450 --> 36:46.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have an answering machine that picks up my phone.
[36:46.490 --> 36:47.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't care.
[36:47.770 --> 36:50.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't care about how many different kinds of rings it got.
[36:50.870 --> 36:51.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, wait a second.
[36:51.650 --> 36:54.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Will the answering machine actually work now that you have distinctive ringing?
[36:54.350 --> 36:55.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I don't even know.
[36:55.490 --> 36:56.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: That would be something to try.
[36:56.770 --> 36:59.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it picks up on the first ring, so it doesn't even matter.
[36:59.450 --> 37:00.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't even matter.
[37:00.810 --> 37:03.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you don't even know what kind of a ring you're about to get.
[37:04.350 --> 37:06.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, there's other services, too, I don't even know about.
[37:07.330 --> 37:09.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was playing around with anonymous call rejection the other day.
[37:09.950 --> 37:12.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: You dial star 77, I think it is.
[37:12.650 --> 37:17.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then anybody calling you who wants to maintain their privacy gets rejected, right, out of hand.
[37:18.170 --> 37:20.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry, we're not accepting any private calls.
[37:20.230 --> 37:23.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Star 77, the star 67 killer.
[37:23.030 --> 37:25.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Star 67 blocks your caller ID.
[37:25.410 --> 37:26.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a whole other feel.
[37:26.350 --> 37:33.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: But star 77 means anybody calling you with a privacy flag on their phone will get rejected.
[37:33.790 --> 37:34.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Star 87 defeats that.
[37:35.030 --> 37:38.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a great gag to pull in my line of work when everybody calling you...
[37:38.830 --> 37:40.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is trying to remain private.
[37:40.230 --> 37:42.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trying to remain anonymous and you reject all of them, you know.
[37:42.930 --> 37:47.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's easy to get around, but it's kind of fun.
[37:47.530 --> 37:48.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what else I have.
[37:48.530 --> 37:49.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've got the voice dialing.
[37:49.630 --> 37:51.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've got speed dialing somewhere hidden in there.
[37:51.590 --> 37:53.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, they didn't send you a pamphlet or anything?
[37:53.410 --> 37:53.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Nothing.
[37:53.970 --> 37:54.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nothing.
[37:54.370 --> 37:56.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: It just, you know, started one day.
[37:56.630 --> 37:59.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: It just threw a switch and all of a sudden...
[37:59.050 --> 37:59.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll say what's cool.
[37:59.850 --> 38:02.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's cool is the caller name display.
[38:02.310 --> 38:03.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because I have a caller ID thing on this line.
[38:03.910 --> 38:04.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[38:04.390 --> 38:07.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's kind of neat to see people's names show up.
[38:07.750 --> 38:09.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Especially people who think their phone number is unlisted.
[38:10.230 --> 38:16.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because, yeah, your phone number might be unlisted, but you still have a name attached to it with the phone company.
[38:16.130 --> 38:23.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, when they call you, you know, it says, you know, Timothy McVeigh or whatever your name is that you're trying to hide.
[38:24.110 --> 38:25.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it just comes right over.
[38:27.030 --> 38:28.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Even though you're not in the phone book.
[38:28.830 --> 38:31.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: As long as you don't star six, seven or block the line.
[38:32.210 --> 38:33.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: That is exceptionally silly.
[38:34.190 --> 38:34.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's typical.
[38:35.110 --> 38:36.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's typical and it's going on all over the place.
[38:36.890 --> 38:37.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry?
[38:37.430 --> 38:37.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: How much?
[38:37.870 --> 38:39.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's about 15 bucks a month for all this.
[38:39.990 --> 38:40.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[38:40.330 --> 38:40.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[38:41.010 --> 38:41.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[38:41.930 --> 38:44.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can't beat the price, but I don't want the service.
[38:45.110 --> 38:45.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: What am I supposed to do?
[38:46.350 --> 38:47.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just want things to work.
[38:47.670 --> 38:49.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I just wanted a few services to work.
[38:49.730 --> 38:52.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I wanted to be able to star six, nine people, which I think is kind of cool.
[38:52.910 --> 38:53.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[38:53.770 --> 38:54.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's useful.
[38:54.270 --> 38:55.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you know what happens?
[38:55.170 --> 39:06.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because if you star six, six somebody, which means repeat dialing, it's a busy signal, and you call them, and then they call you back, well, it's a distinctive ring.
[39:06.850 --> 39:10.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: How do you know if it's a distinctive ring of one of your distinctive lines?
[39:10.410 --> 39:11.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: For the second number or...
[39:11.690 --> 39:12.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you don't know.
[39:12.730 --> 39:13.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't know.
[39:14.330 --> 39:15.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's pretty sad.
[39:15.750 --> 39:16.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a big mess.
[39:16.710 --> 39:17.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you know what else?
[39:17.410 --> 39:18.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just thought of this right now.
[39:18.690 --> 39:21.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.
[39:21.090 --> 39:31.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a little trick that I used to be able to do back when caller ID worked on my old line, where if I called somebody and their line was busy, and then they called me back with that distinctive ringing, they aren't actually calling me back.
[39:31.670 --> 39:33.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: But on my caller ID box, their number shows up.
[39:33.890 --> 39:38.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I can say to them, look, you called me, even though they didn't do anything of the sort.
[39:38.210 --> 39:40.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wonder if now their name shows up as well.
[39:41.310 --> 39:41.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Ooh.
[39:42.130 --> 39:43.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: What an interesting way to get people's names.
[39:43.930 --> 39:46.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: That is a very interesting way to get people's names.
[39:46.610 --> 39:46.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[39:46.790 --> 39:47.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, so...
[39:47.590 --> 39:48.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Dialing a number and...
[39:48.790 --> 39:51.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, anybody who has caller name...
[39:51.510 --> 39:52.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't say that right.
[39:53.670 --> 39:54.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Caller ID, I can say.
[39:54.890 --> 39:56.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Call, name, delivery, whatever.
[39:56.310 --> 39:57.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't say that right.
[39:57.330 --> 40:03.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if anybody has one of those features, they have a caller name ID box.
[40:03.890 --> 40:05.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they have a second phone number.
[40:06.010 --> 40:07.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Call that second phone number.
[40:07.610 --> 40:11.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, first call your caller name box with that phone number, see what shows up.
[40:13.090 --> 40:16.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Then, call that number, making sure it's off the hook so it's busy.
[40:16.890 --> 40:19.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do a star-66 thing, then hang up.
[40:19.870 --> 40:23.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, you don't have to do star-66 anymore because that annoying lady comes on and says, The line's busy.
[40:24.270 --> 40:27.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Press this button, and I'll keep trying for a long time or whatever.
[40:28.390 --> 40:31.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then when it rings back, see what number shows up and see if a name shows up with it.
[40:32.530 --> 40:34.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Interesting little experiment to pull there.
[40:34.590 --> 40:36.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, some experiment for all the happy listeners.
[40:36.970 --> 40:37.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[40:37.510 --> 40:37.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[40:37.930 --> 40:41.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, anything new in the world of whatever it is that you're up to these days?
[40:41.630 --> 40:41.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Me?
[40:42.110 --> 40:42.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[40:42.690 --> 40:44.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: You think I do interesting things?
[40:44.290 --> 40:45.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I figured it was a long shot, though.
[40:46.010 --> 40:46.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: Give it a...
[40:47.170 --> 40:48.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Might hit something, but no, as usual.
[40:49.170 --> 40:49.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[40:49.690 --> 40:50.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nothing fun on the net?
[40:51.750 --> 40:52.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not particularly.
[40:53.810 --> 40:58.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, if anyone is interested, there's a forum tomorrow night at the Cooper Union.
[40:58.390 --> 41:05.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: The folks at Name.Space are hosting a DNS open town meeting kind of strange thing.
[41:05.430 --> 41:06.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: I haven't heard much about it.
[41:06.630 --> 41:08.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Grab your top-level domain of your choice?
[41:08.670 --> 41:12.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it is Name.Space, so you can get dot whatever you want, I suppose.
[41:12.910 --> 41:17.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's for people interested in actually seeing how this works and where they're trying to go with it.
[41:17.490 --> 41:18.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And where is this again?
[41:18.070 --> 41:21.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's in the Cooper Union Foundation building.
[41:21.330 --> 41:22.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's Cooper Square.
[41:23.590 --> 41:28.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: For those unfamiliar, it's 3rd Avenue and St. Mark's 8th Street around there.
[41:28.610 --> 41:29.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: You'll see it.
[41:29.330 --> 41:30.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a big building with lots of scaffolding.
[41:30.670 --> 41:32.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought the net was going to break yesterday.
[41:32.770 --> 41:33.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I really did.
[41:33.490 --> 41:33.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: When...
[41:33.910 --> 41:39.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they released those video transcripts at 9 a.m., which I think was pretty stupid.
[41:39.410 --> 41:40.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: They did it on the net.
[41:40.550 --> 41:41.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was really cool.
[41:41.530 --> 41:45.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was on every TV station and every cable network, you know?
[41:45.470 --> 41:46.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was insane.
[41:46.950 --> 41:48.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they put it on the web as well.
[41:48.990 --> 41:51.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, you know, for some reason, the background didn't snap.
[41:51.870 --> 41:53.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe because everybody was watching TV and they didn't even try it.
[41:55.130 --> 41:57.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it was definitely a test.
[41:57.970 --> 41:59.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: No major ramifications that I know of.
[41:59.770 --> 42:01.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you know otherwise, please let us know.
[42:01.210 --> 42:01.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[42:01.510 --> 42:02.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to take some phone calls.
[42:02.470 --> 42:03.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[42:03.910 --> 42:06.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, let me just warn you of the gravity of the situation.
[42:07.610 --> 42:08.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[42:08.070 --> 42:09.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's nothing against the old calls.
[42:09.210 --> 42:10.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: We just want new callers this week.
[42:11.810 --> 42:16.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you don't take that seriously, you're going to find that we mean it.
[42:16.790 --> 42:17.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right?
[42:17.830 --> 42:19.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're going to find that we mean it.
[42:19.750 --> 42:20.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't make us be mean.
[42:21.390 --> 42:21.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[42:22.350 --> 42:23.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Next week, everybody can call.
[42:24.290 --> 42:25.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[42:25.510 --> 42:26.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: See, this way, I can press any button.
[42:26.730 --> 42:27.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Look at all these buttons.
[42:27.350 --> 42:27.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're all lit.
[42:27.930 --> 42:29.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can press any button.
[42:29.130 --> 42:29.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Without fear.
[42:29.970 --> 42:34.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not have to fear what might be waiting for me on the other end because they're all new people.
[42:34.230 --> 42:34.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[42:34.510 --> 42:34.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[42:34.950 --> 42:35.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[42:35.670 --> 42:36.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello.
[42:36.010 --> 42:36.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[42:36.930 --> 42:37.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:37.390 --> 42:38.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a new voice, isn't it?
[42:38.610 --> 42:38.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yep.
[42:39.130 --> 42:39.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Where are you calling from?
[42:40.190 --> 42:40.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: New York.
[42:40.830 --> 42:41.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: New York.
[42:41.210 --> 42:41.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's on your mind?
[42:42.210 --> 42:42.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:42.530 --> 42:43.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've got a few questions.
[42:43.770 --> 42:45.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: First off, great show.
[42:45.870 --> 42:46.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why, thank you.
[42:46.670 --> 42:46.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Welcome.
[42:47.330 --> 42:48.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a statement, though.
[42:48.230 --> 42:48.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not a question.
[42:49.270 --> 42:49.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:50.270 --> 42:51.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: The answer is yes.
[42:51.070 --> 42:51.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've got a couple of questions.
[42:51.790 --> 42:52.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: What?
[42:52.310 --> 42:52.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[42:52.650 --> 42:55.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're just having fun at your expense, but that's what we do here.
[42:55.530 --> 42:55.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[42:56.250 --> 42:56.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[42:56.850 --> 42:57.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've got a couple of questions.
[42:57.930 --> 43:04.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: First of all, do you know of any resource that lists remote systems that you can tell that into?
[43:04.490 --> 43:04.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you?
[43:05.770 --> 43:08.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Lists remote systems that you can tell that into?
[43:08.870 --> 43:08.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[43:08.990 --> 43:10.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: As in, like, free shell account access?
[43:11.270 --> 43:12.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, things like that.
[43:12.290 --> 43:20.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or just, you know, systems that you, uh, that offer, you know, just a list of various systems that have tell that, uh...
[43:20.350 --> 43:26.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Places you can tell that and, like, play around with Lynx and Pine and just have a shell at your access?
[43:26.210 --> 43:28.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think he's asking for all different kinds of services.
[43:28.690 --> 43:29.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[43:29.650 --> 43:30.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basically.
[43:30.350 --> 43:32.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, you know, Dungeons and Dragons and things like that?
[43:33.070 --> 43:33.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that kind of?
[43:33.210 --> 43:33.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just everything.
[43:34.150 --> 43:37.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Any, uh, any kind of, is there any kind of list?
[43:37.430 --> 43:38.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Master list.
[43:38.210 --> 43:38.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[43:38.490 --> 43:42.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: If there were a master list, uh, it would be very large.
[43:42.630 --> 43:46.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, wasn't there, isn't there, like, a list of lists somewhere?
[43:46.970 --> 43:51.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: There used to be, uh, things floating all around Usenet, but that was, like, 20 years ago.
[43:51.850 --> 43:52.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[43:52.230 --> 43:57.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, just the, the amount of resources out there have outgrown the possibility of lists.
[43:57.550 --> 44:05.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, you could go out and buy a copy of, like, the Internet Yellow Pages and maybe get one hundredth of a fraction of the, uh, possible sites out there.
[44:05.670 --> 44:09.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Couldn't you also, uh, just sort of look around for that on the web?
[44:09.610 --> 44:09.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, yeah.
[44:10.130 --> 44:10.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Internet Yellow Pages?
[44:10.950 --> 44:12.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm, I'm, well, the Internet Yellow Pages.
[44:12.630 --> 44:23.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, actually, if you look around Yahoo, you might, like, dig yourself into one of those categories where they have, uh, lists of, say, uh, muses, muxes, and muds, or...
[44:23.290 --> 44:24.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Under computers, presumably.
[44:25.230 --> 44:26.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, something like that.
[44:26.450 --> 44:27.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, put computers into Yahoo.
[44:28.050 --> 44:30.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's gonna, that's gonna yield you a few hits.
[44:30.730 --> 44:36.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, yeah, there, there isn't, like, the, the, uh, the Bible of, uh, available resources.
[44:36.410 --> 44:37.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's, it's, it's a very large world.
[44:38.470 --> 44:42.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, basically, look around Yahoo, uh, someplace that has categories.
[44:42.610 --> 44:46.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Categories where you can have, like, a long list of sites that may have other things.
[44:46.830 --> 44:52.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, some, you might want to also try some Usenet, uh, group, uh, FAQs, or FAQs.
[44:52.890 --> 44:53.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[44:53.430 --> 44:57.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, they might have certain resources pertinent to a specific topic.
[44:57.630 --> 45:05.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: For instance, like, uh, PsyCryogenics used to have a, uh, a gopher site where they linked to all these other places, which was really cool.
[45:06.090 --> 45:15.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, why I was in PsyCryogenics, I couldn't tell you, but, uh, but, uh, yeah, things have gotten to a point where you can't really have a master list anymore.
[45:15.590 --> 45:18.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you look around one of the services like Yahoo, you might begin to...
[45:18.730 --> 45:19.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[45:19.470 --> 45:25.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if we, if we hear something, of course, we'll let you know as far as, uh, what people have, have said, uh, to us as far as lists.
[45:25.730 --> 45:26.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks very much for the call.
[45:26.930 --> 45:27.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[45:28.090 --> 45:28.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[45:28.410 --> 45:28.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[45:31.670 --> 45:34.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, uh, since these are new callers, maybe we should explain the rules.
[45:35.510 --> 45:42.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, when we say good evening, you're on the air, and the voice doesn't come through your radio, it comes through your phone, that means it's you.
[45:42.590 --> 45:46.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ooh, that's right, and, and by that token, you should always have the phone next to your ear.
[45:47.050 --> 45:50.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: You should also have the radio down so we don't get feedback, which would be a positive thing.
[45:50.690 --> 45:51.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: That too, that too.
[45:51.190 --> 45:54.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: When you make a phone call to the station, don't put the phone down and, and, and put the clothes in the dryer.
[45:55.130 --> 45:58.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, because it could happen that you're next, like this person is.
[45:58.610 --> 45:58.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[45:59.130 --> 45:59.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[46:00.510 --> 46:00.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello?
[46:01.110 --> 46:01.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, go ahead.
[46:02.030 --> 46:02.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[46:02.490 --> 46:03.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: How do you hear me?
[46:03.010 --> 46:03.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a bad connection.
[46:04.190 --> 46:05.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can hear you just fine.
[46:05.310 --> 46:05.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[46:05.830 --> 46:07.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, thanks for your invitation.
[46:07.330 --> 46:08.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am a first-time caller.
[46:09.210 --> 46:11.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why, thanks for calling and taking us up on that invitation.
[46:11.230 --> 46:20.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Compared to the weighty matters you've been addressing, my problem is rather trivial, but I didn't know where else to turn, and hopefully you can provide an answer.
[46:20.410 --> 46:21.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're here for you.
[46:22.030 --> 46:40.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Every two or three weeks, my beeper gets activated by a computer, which reads out the numbers 07734, which you may know, if you turn upside down, spells out, hello.
[46:41.230 --> 46:42.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've gotten that a few times.
[46:42.750 --> 46:57.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it happens to me about every week or two, and then I get paged continuously every three to five minutes for about three hours, and this goes on for about three days.
[46:58.850 --> 46:59.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's not good.
[47:00.010 --> 47:01.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, you said a computer is involved.
[47:01.750 --> 47:02.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: How do you know a computer is involved?
[47:02.690 --> 47:07.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, just because of the regularity of it, it seemed that way.
[47:07.190 --> 47:09.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would say because of the irregularity of it.
[47:09.230 --> 47:10.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: You say it only happens every couple of weeks.
[47:10.630 --> 47:14.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: If it was a computer, it could do it every couple of seconds for a month without stopping.
[47:14.230 --> 47:16.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it happened that way first.
[47:16.710 --> 47:26.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: When it first started, which was about a year ago, it went like that for about three days solid, every three to five minutes.
[47:27.250 --> 47:32.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: But then it's been recently every two weeks, I would guess.
[47:33.050 --> 47:38.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: It just seems to me that for someone to be doing it manually would involve an awful, awful lot of time.
[47:38.850 --> 47:44.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, no, I wasn't suggesting that, but I'm saying something like a fax machine or a speed dial on a phone could be programmed to do that.
[47:44.670 --> 47:48.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Call a certain number, pause for a little bit of time, enter some more numbers, hang up.
[47:48.710 --> 47:51.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a very bored person who wants to play with you.
[47:51.310 --> 47:53.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, there are some beeper companies.
[47:53.710 --> 48:01.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure which one, but there is one in particular where you call it up and it asks you... it's got an 800 number.
[48:01.730 --> 48:06.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's whatever company it was that blocked phone calls from payphones.
[48:08.230 --> 48:13.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Basically, what you do is you enter your page and it asks you how many times you want to page the person with that number.
[48:13.950 --> 48:15.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nine, nine, nine.
[48:15.210 --> 48:18.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can do it a lot of times and you can call many times.
[48:18.450 --> 48:20.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, there are some services that do it for you.
[48:20.970 --> 48:21.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't have to have a computer.
[48:22.270 --> 48:23.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, check with your beeper company first.
[48:23.830 --> 48:26.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Make sure they're not one of those idiot companies that do that.
[48:27.030 --> 48:32.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then, if they aren't, say to them, look, at this time, we're getting all these phone calls.
[48:32.730 --> 48:37.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: We need to do what's known as a trap and trace on it, which they have to work for the phone company for.
[48:37.550 --> 48:38.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: They can do that.
[48:38.430 --> 48:42.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: They told me that I had to speak to the phone company and the phone company told me they couldn't do anything.
[48:42.830 --> 48:43.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: They couldn't trace it.
[48:43.810 --> 48:46.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, no, that's not true because they're calling a phone number.
[48:46.730 --> 48:50.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just a question of the interface, the right people talking to the right people.
[48:50.870 --> 48:52.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just simply a question of that.
[48:52.710 --> 48:54.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, who would you suggest I call?
[48:54.570 --> 48:55.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you call...
[48:55.230 --> 48:57.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: First of all, how inconvenient would it be for you to change your beeper number?
[48:59.670 --> 49:00.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Extremely.
[49:00.170 --> 49:02.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm listed in directories and that's how I get work.
[49:02.530 --> 49:02.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[49:03.470 --> 49:03.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[49:03.850 --> 49:06.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's probably why you're getting beeped, too, because you're listed in directories.
[49:07.410 --> 49:13.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Then, in that case, you have to come down hard in the beeper company because they're the ones that own the phone number.
[49:13.290 --> 49:14.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's actually...
[49:14.070 --> 49:15.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not you that owns the phone number.
[49:15.410 --> 49:17.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's you that has an account with the beeper company.
[49:18.550 --> 49:20.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, there is another interesting possibility.
[49:22.290 --> 49:23.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: If there is some kind of...
[49:24.510 --> 49:24.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: What?
[49:25.710 --> 49:26.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, okay.
[49:26.330 --> 49:37.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: If there is some kind of internet gateway to the beeper, there may be somebody with a program running about, just setting up some kind of a script that would do this.
[49:37.970 --> 49:41.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do you know if your beeper has an internet interface or something like that?
[49:41.710 --> 49:45.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: I doubt it is that I've had this number for probably five years.
[49:46.090 --> 49:46.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[49:46.250 --> 49:47.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Then, most likely not.
[49:48.210 --> 49:48.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[49:48.510 --> 49:49.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Definitely call the company.
[49:50.230 --> 49:55.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: If they don't do anything, I'd really get on their case.
[49:55.930 --> 49:57.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think Ray has some input here.
[49:57.810 --> 49:58.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:58.230 --> 50:00.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: What you have to do is find out who your carrier is.
[50:00.830 --> 50:04.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Probably he's only talking to this reseller who's selling in the service or the beeper.
[50:05.210 --> 50:07.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: So he's going to have to find out who the carrier is.
[50:07.890 --> 50:08.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's PageNet.
[50:08.510 --> 50:08.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[50:08.810 --> 50:11.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: PageNet does have an interface into the internet.
[50:11.790 --> 50:12.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[50:12.150 --> 50:13.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It could be through the internet, too.
[50:14.110 --> 50:14.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your pager...
[50:14.970 --> 50:17.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: The guy is probably accessing you through the internet.
[50:17.270 --> 50:22.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that way, he doesn't have to keep paying for the phone calls to contact you to keep setting your beeper off.
[50:22.950 --> 50:28.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there's a lot of software out there that's designed to do that, to keep sending messages at predetermined times.
[50:29.110 --> 50:36.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: You need to contact the carrier itself and talk to their customer service people there and tell them what's going on.
[50:36.130 --> 50:37.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they can probably track it back through the internet.
[50:38.070 --> 50:43.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if that's the case, they can also very easily find out the address that's coming from.
[50:44.010 --> 50:45.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's just a question of looking at some logs.
[50:46.130 --> 50:51.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody, best of luck with that example of one of the many problems that face people in this technological age.
[50:51.650 --> 50:52.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[50:52.050 --> 50:52.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[50:52.210 --> 50:53.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off the Hook.
[50:55.410 --> 50:55.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[50:56.110 --> 50:59.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Another one of these people that needs to not leave the phone.
[50:59.810 --> 51:00.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[51:00.310 --> 51:00.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off the Hook.
[51:01.950 --> 51:02.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[51:02.510 --> 51:02.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[51:03.670 --> 51:04.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[51:04.710 --> 51:05.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm calling from New Jersey.
[51:05.950 --> 51:07.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I was actually happy to get through.
[51:07.930 --> 51:08.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've listened to you guys.
[51:08.870 --> 51:10.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I really like the show.
[51:11.670 --> 51:14.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I was wondering, you guys talk about PCS and stuff like that.
[51:14.970 --> 51:17.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have a Bell Atlantic mobile phone.
[51:17.510 --> 51:19.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I really like the service on it.
[51:19.410 --> 51:22.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I don't like Bell Atlantic at all as a local carrier.
[51:23.170 --> 51:27.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: But their mobile service, like the steelhead that I have, is actually pretty good.
[51:27.230 --> 51:30.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I was wondering if you guys ever tried Bell Atlantic mobile or know anything.
[51:30.110 --> 51:31.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have it myself.
[51:31.750 --> 51:33.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isaac, do you know anything about Bell Atlantic?
[51:33.210 --> 51:34.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know people who have.
[51:36.630 --> 51:37.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a decent service.
[51:37.870 --> 51:45.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: These new things they have with the USA and the East Coast plans that I've been hearing about.
[51:45.490 --> 51:46.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's kind of silly.
[51:46.350 --> 51:47.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're actually not offering them yet.
[51:48.030 --> 51:50.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they don't really have enough literature for them.
[51:50.750 --> 51:53.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: But supposedly it's a big money saver.
[51:53.310 --> 51:54.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm considering switching myself.
[51:55.990 --> 51:59.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I have a lot of free time and a lot of features.
[52:00.110 --> 52:01.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everything was included.
[52:02.150 --> 52:07.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I've actually brought the phone across country and back.
[52:07.870 --> 52:09.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I've made lots of calls.
[52:09.230 --> 52:12.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I've never had any interruption of service or any problems.
[52:12.850 --> 52:13.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's good.
[52:13.290 --> 52:15.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: But now, this is not a PCS service.
[52:15.630 --> 52:16.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is just regular cellular.
[52:16.790 --> 52:16.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[52:17.770 --> 52:18.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's digital.
[52:19.270 --> 52:20.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Digital cellular?
[52:20.350 --> 52:20.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, okay.
[52:21.930 --> 52:23.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not the wave of the future.
[52:23.330 --> 52:29.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, eventually you're probably going to wind up with some other type of service that will replace it, which will be even cheaper, hopefully.
[52:29.670 --> 52:32.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: What exactly is the difference between digital cellular and PCS?
[52:32.550 --> 52:35.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody.
[52:35.570 --> 52:40.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I believe that Bell Atlantic is using TDMA over 900 meg band.
[52:40.870 --> 52:42.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: And much more powerful transmitters.
[52:42.670 --> 52:43.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[52:43.310 --> 52:48.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: So you have more bang for the buck so far as how many towers you have to erect.
[52:48.950 --> 52:53.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sprint sites doing at 1-3 gigs have to be closer than the Bell Atlantic towers.
[52:54.150 --> 53:00.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Bell Atlantic already owns a lot of towers, so they can put up all their TDMA stuff already since they have the room.
[53:01.710 --> 53:01.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[53:02.270 --> 53:07.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: So it's a quality issue I've never used either, but according to the specs, they're about comparable.
[53:08.210 --> 53:10.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then you've got GSM, but we're not even going to get into that.
[53:10.510 --> 53:11.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for the call.
[53:11.690 --> 53:19.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, an appeal to our Internet people, if we can get some email from the coordinators saying how many listeners we have out there.
[53:19.410 --> 53:20.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'd like to know how many people.
[53:21.390 --> 53:24.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: They know how to get a hold of us via the old GSM phone.
[53:24.270 --> 53:24.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: GSM phone.
[53:24.770 --> 53:25.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Where you can get email.
[53:26.290 --> 53:28.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Still can't send email on the Sprint phone.
[53:29.090 --> 53:30.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can get email, but you can't send it.
[53:31.050 --> 53:31.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which is pretty silly.
[53:32.370 --> 53:33.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's take another phone call.
[53:33.430 --> 53:34.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[53:34.190 --> 53:34.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[53:35.530 --> 53:35.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[53:35.950 --> 53:37.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a first caller.
[53:37.310 --> 53:38.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm calling from Florida.
[53:38.590 --> 53:38.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Great.
[53:39.390 --> 53:42.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to tell you how much I love your show.
[53:42.530 --> 53:48.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just started listening to it maybe the beginning of this August, and I just love it.
[53:48.910 --> 53:50.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you probably heard us when we were on the road.
[53:51.410 --> 53:52.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I did.
[53:52.190 --> 53:54.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was pretty hair-raising.
[53:54.470 --> 53:55.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was adventurous, if anything.
[53:56.050 --> 53:56.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[53:56.250 --> 53:58.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I got to hear the show fairly recently.
[53:58.730 --> 53:59.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did I talk about this last week?
[53:59.810 --> 54:02.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Where basically I was talking through my Sprint PCS phone.
[54:02.710 --> 54:04.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, it sounded really strange.
[54:04.290 --> 54:06.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it gave me like an accent that I didn't have.
[54:07.090 --> 54:08.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: It did something weird to my voice.
[54:09.090 --> 54:10.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was listening to it saying, this is not me.
[54:11.050 --> 54:11.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not me.
[54:12.850 --> 54:13.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was, though.
[54:13.810 --> 54:15.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was me talking on my phone.
[54:15.170 --> 54:20.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it wasn't being handed off to different sites as I was passing.
[54:20.010 --> 54:24.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was me throughout, because that's the one time I didn't get dropped, and I was traveling.
[54:24.830 --> 54:28.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'd like some Sprint engineer to tell me just what happened to my voice.
[54:28.370 --> 54:30.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you want to go, it's on the web.
[54:30.090 --> 54:34.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's one of the, it's the August show where we were in the Bay Area.
[54:34.650 --> 54:34.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's all I know.
[54:34.990 --> 54:36.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I listened to that one.
[54:36.850 --> 54:37.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was pretty scary.
[54:37.930 --> 54:38.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[54:38.170 --> 54:39.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: So what's happening down in Florida?
[54:40.190 --> 54:41.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're part of Bell South, I believe.
[54:42.410 --> 54:44.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, we've got a GTE.
[54:44.270 --> 54:45.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, my sympathies.
[54:47.210 --> 54:47.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[54:47.810 --> 54:50.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you're part of that independent zone.
[54:50.890 --> 54:51.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[54:51.790 --> 54:52.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[54:53.070 --> 54:55.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: So any horror stories for that company?
[54:56.730 --> 54:58.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they've been pretty good.
[54:58.910 --> 54:59.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[54:59.390 --> 54:59.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[54:59.510 --> 55:00.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: They offer ISDN?
[55:01.650 --> 55:02.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they do.
[55:02.570 --> 55:02.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: They do?
[55:03.030 --> 55:03.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[55:03.450 --> 55:04.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about DSL?
[55:04.970 --> 55:06.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm not sure about that.
[55:06.290 --> 55:06.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ah, okay.
[55:06.910 --> 55:08.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: You might want to ask them about that.
[55:08.270 --> 55:08.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[55:08.790 --> 55:09.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Throw them into a panic.
[55:09.750 --> 55:13.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have, I was wondering, do you guys have Time Warner up there?
[55:13.630 --> 55:14.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Time Warner Cable?
[55:14.890 --> 55:15.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[55:15.810 --> 55:18.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do they offer their Roadrunner service for you up there?
[55:19.050 --> 55:20.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that, what, a cable modem?
[55:20.370 --> 55:20.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[55:21.050 --> 55:21.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Roadrunner?
[55:21.630 --> 55:21.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[55:22.650 --> 55:28.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Cable modems in the New York City area are kind of on, quote-unquote, hold.
[55:28.530 --> 55:31.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, doesn't Liberty Cable have cable modems?
[55:31.510 --> 55:31.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I heard they did.
[55:32.030 --> 55:33.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: I heard they did, and I heard they were offering it.
[55:33.610 --> 55:33.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[55:34.410 --> 55:35.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[55:35.350 --> 55:36.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've been asked by my cable company.
[55:36.730 --> 55:39.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they stopped asking about it, so I can't even, like, broach the subject anymore.
[55:40.050 --> 55:40.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm out on the island.
[55:40.350 --> 55:46.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: I used to be on a beta test list for the Mac version of CableVision system, and for some reason, I never heard from them.
[55:47.030 --> 55:48.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, do you have one of these cable modems?
[55:48.450 --> 55:50.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm planning to get one pretty soon.
[55:51.390 --> 55:53.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm running on a 56 right now.
[55:53.750 --> 55:53.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[55:54.310 --> 56:05.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, from what I've heard, DSL is better, because it uses existing copper wire, and because you can get it through your local provider, you don't have to worry about the cable company not liking something you're doing or cutting you off.
[56:05.750 --> 56:13.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you can pretty much run your site any way you want, whereas the cable company says you can't have a server running, for instance, which is kind of, you know, what's the point?
[56:13.390 --> 56:13.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Please define server.
[56:14.390 --> 56:15.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, define server.
[56:17.110 --> 56:21.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when they come to install it, I've got a few friends that have it installed.
[56:21.990 --> 56:36.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: They have to bring in, they come in, rip your computer open, and put their Ethernet card in, and you have to clear out one of your, you've got to clear out a big space, because they've got to put in a big hub for you.
[56:36.530 --> 56:38.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: That can be inconvenient.
[56:38.410 --> 56:38.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[56:39.650 --> 56:40.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, best of luck down there.
[56:41.290 --> 56:41.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[56:41.770 --> 56:42.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for giving us a call.
[56:42.730 --> 56:46.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have mail from Porkchop, who's handling the internet traffic.
[56:47.070 --> 56:53.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have 125 listeners from around the world listening to us on the internet right now, which is pretty good, pretty good.
[56:53.550 --> 56:54.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a solid boost.
[56:54.750 --> 57:00.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks to the people out there that helped put that together, the coders and servers who are dutifully standing by.
[57:01.010 --> 57:10.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, I should mention that the 2600 website has gone through some major changes in the past week, thanks to Wicked David over there for putting it all together.
[57:10.850 --> 57:19.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: We also have new webmasters, Carrie and Mackie, who are throwing things together, along with Curatoy and Phil as well, working on all kinds of different things.
[57:20.050 --> 57:21.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, expect changes.
[57:21.510 --> 57:29.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you have any kind of request, input, please send them to us over at 2600.
[57:29.230 --> 57:30.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's take one more phone call.
[57:30.330 --> 57:31.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, good evening.
[57:31.270 --> 57:31.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[57:32.370 --> 57:32.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great.
[57:33.010 --> 57:33.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks very much.
[57:34.090 --> 57:35.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you could help me.
[57:35.510 --> 57:39.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a friend in Southern Africa who's asked me to buy him a cell phone.
[57:39.150 --> 57:43.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen some of these phones on sale, the Motorola StarTAC.
[57:43.370 --> 57:49.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: But the price, which is very cheap, $50, comes with the... you have to activate it here.
[57:49.630 --> 57:52.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, the problem also is they use a different frequency over there.
[57:52.590 --> 57:55.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure, actually, if South Africa uses the European frequencies.
[57:55.370 --> 57:56.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I imagine they probably would.
[57:57.650 --> 57:59.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: In which case, they don't.
[58:00.330 --> 58:01.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you know something about this?
[58:01.190 --> 58:01.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hold on.
[58:01.370 --> 58:02.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: We could know something about this.
[58:02.950 --> 58:04.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: Certain parts do use them.
[58:04.670 --> 58:05.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: Certain parts use...
[58:05.570 --> 58:06.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you know this?
[58:06.310 --> 58:08.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you have a chart of every country in your head.
[58:08.170 --> 58:09.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know South Africa uses...
[58:09.910 --> 58:12.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, because a friend of mine that...
[58:12.290 --> 58:12.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?
[58:13.170 --> 58:17.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...relative that lives out in Israel travels into Africa a lot to do his satellite stuff.
[58:18.810 --> 58:20.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he has to use two different phones.
[58:20.890 --> 58:21.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[58:21.290 --> 58:22.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, now, is this GSM?
[58:23.270 --> 58:24.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do they have GSM in South Africa?
[58:24.750 --> 58:26.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: There is GSM in South Africa.
[58:26.670 --> 58:26.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[58:27.130 --> 58:29.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's what the StarTAC phone would be, right?
[58:29.750 --> 58:30.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[58:30.330 --> 58:30.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's not.
[58:30.810 --> 58:31.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a Sprint phone.
[58:32.050 --> 58:37.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there is a version of the StarTAC for GSM, but I think the one that's on sale a lot lately is the analog version.
[58:37.890 --> 58:38.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, okay.
[58:38.450 --> 58:40.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: But GSM is what you should use if you're in South Africa, right?
[58:41.570 --> 58:41.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[58:42.230 --> 58:43.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's different areas that are...
[58:43.930 --> 58:46.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Some are regular, analog, cellular.
[58:46.690 --> 58:47.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[58:47.390 --> 58:48.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing special.
[58:48.390 --> 58:50.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think GSM is just moving in there now.
[58:50.950 --> 58:52.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a difficult question to answer.
[58:52.970 --> 58:53.370]  Okay.
[58:53.570 --> 59:02.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Without being there, without having somebody actually there to tell us what the situation is right now, it's probably not a good idea for you of all the people this person knows to get that phone.
[59:02.350 --> 59:02.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[59:02.830 --> 59:07.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: You should get it from someone who is like, you know, there, knows what works, what doesn't work.
[59:07.250 --> 59:09.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because in all likelihood, you're going to get them something that doesn't work.
[59:09.950 --> 59:10.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[59:10.310 --> 59:10.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[59:10.610 --> 59:12.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Until things get standardized.
[59:12.950 --> 59:13.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[59:13.410 --> 59:13.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[59:13.950 --> 59:14.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're out of time.
[59:15.130 --> 59:16.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for calling.
[59:16.230 --> 59:17.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks to everybody who called in.
[59:17.230 --> 59:20.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: And thanks to all the old listeners who listened this week.
[59:20.870 --> 59:26.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we hope to hear from you all next week when we're back talking about all kinds of other developments in the world of high tech.
[59:27.010 --> 59:29.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Until then, it's Emmanuel Goldstein for...
[59:30.950 --> 59:31.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you believe this?
[59:31.870 --> 59:35.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Someone snuck in here, took my theme out, and put something else in.
[59:36.010 --> 59:36.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you believe that?
[59:37.130 --> 59:38.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I almost played the wrong thing.
[59:39.790 --> 59:40.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[59:41.550 --> 59:42.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: There it is.
[59:42.530 --> 59:43.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Despite the efforts.
[59:45.210 --> 59:46.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll be back again next week.
[59:46.610 --> 59:47.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Emmanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook.
[59:47.630 --> 59:47.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good night.
[01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:14.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: People get ready...
[01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:22.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, I'm Samori Maxman, Program Director of this radio station WBAI-FM in New York, inviting you to join us on Friday, September 25th at 1 p.m.
[01:01:22.820 --> 01:01:24.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: for our monthly Report to the Listener.
[01:01:24.980 --> 01:01:26.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's this Friday at 1 p.m.
[01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:31.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: for news, information, reports, questions, and some answers to everything.