Off The Hook - 1998-10-06

[00:11.200 --> 00:16.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: The first sentence is the first sentence.
[00:16.760 --> 00:32.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this sentence
[00:38.170 --> 00:39.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: is the first sentence.
[01:45.980 --> 01:51.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: And a good evening to everybody here on WBAI in New York.
[01:51.980 --> 02:01.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just a bit hectic tonight, things aren't going quite as planned, but we have quite a lot of really cool plans that we're going to get into in just a couple of moments.
[02:02.480 --> 02:03.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have a special guest on.
[02:04.960 --> 02:12.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll have some information on new calling plans and whether or not they really work.
[02:13.060 --> 02:14.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: All kinds of other fun things, too.
[02:14.580 --> 02:15.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:15.500 --> 02:18.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's Manuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour.
[02:18.900 --> 02:19.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Stay tuned.
[02:44.240 --> 02:45.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be right back.
[03:01.760 --> 03:06.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, first thing we're going to do tonight is something we're not supposed to do.
[03:06.420 --> 03:10.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not supposed to have access to a certain authorization code.
[03:11.020 --> 03:11.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know.
[03:11.400 --> 03:12.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: We've all been there before.
[03:12.400 --> 03:13.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: We all know what it's like.
[03:13.980 --> 03:16.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: But this is something that I carry with me all the time.
[03:16.760 --> 03:17.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's my phone.
[03:17.600 --> 03:21.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there are certain codes on your phone that you're not supposed to know.
[03:22.300 --> 03:25.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we sort of found out some of these codes.
[03:25.560 --> 03:28.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: And one of them lets you do something really cool.
[03:29.060 --> 03:30.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it really does.
[03:30.320 --> 03:34.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: So what you have to do is you have to enter your special code.
[03:36.680 --> 03:38.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I've done that on the phone.
[03:38.160 --> 03:40.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've committed fraud right on the air on my own phone.
[03:40.660 --> 03:46.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: And right now, we are in a special test menu that allows me to make test phone calls.
[03:47.280 --> 03:51.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm about to make a test phone call to myself.
[03:52.040 --> 03:56.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you will hear just how weird and bizarre this really is.
[03:58.420 --> 04:00.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we've placed the call now.
[04:00.240 --> 04:00.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: The phone is ringing.
[04:01.260 --> 04:02.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we're about to pick up the phone.
[04:03.120 --> 04:06.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: About to pick up the phone and see just what it is you hear when you make this test call.
[04:06.860 --> 04:07.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Take a listen.
[04:25.140 --> 04:26.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to hit a touch tone now.
[04:33.300 --> 04:35.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now I'm going to try talking, but you won't hear me.
[04:36.000 --> 04:37.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, test one, two.
[04:37.520 --> 04:37.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[04:56.610 --> 04:58.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, this is a Sprint PCS feature.
[04:59.250 --> 05:08.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of people might mistake it for the service, but this is really what happens when you enter a certain access code.
[05:22.680 --> 05:26.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, the interesting thing is the access code works on a lot of different phones.
[05:26.920 --> 05:34.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: But this little feature only works on, I believe, the model I have, which is the Samsung, the cheap-ass one.
[05:34.640 --> 05:35.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: You get a Radio Shack.
[05:40.530 --> 05:45.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: And basically what happens is when you make a certain type of test call, which, believe it or not, is called a Markov call.
[05:46.370 --> 05:48.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a 13K Markov call, they call it.
[05:48.610 --> 05:49.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Spelled differently.
[05:49.150 --> 05:49.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: M-A-R-K-O-V.
[05:50.690 --> 05:53.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: It will call the last person you called with this.
[05:56.290 --> 06:01.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you're going around playing with these features and you happen to hit that button, you won't know you're calling that person.
[06:01.830 --> 06:03.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't say that you're calling them.
[06:03.350 --> 06:05.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: The person gets a phone call from you, though.
[06:05.530 --> 06:07.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: They see your number if they have caller ID.
[06:08.150 --> 06:09.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they hear this.
[06:11.810 --> 06:12.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Until you hang up.
[06:16.930 --> 06:18.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty fascinating, isn't it?
[06:20.850 --> 06:23.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's just one of many things we're going to be experimenting with tonight.
[06:23.550 --> 06:24.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have, um...
[06:24.650 --> 06:25.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to hang up.
[06:26.510 --> 06:27.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have to.
[06:28.290 --> 06:30.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I'm going to click the end button right now.
[06:30.890 --> 06:31.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: There, it's gone.
[06:32.130 --> 06:32.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[06:32.890 --> 06:34.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have to call Bernie S.
[06:34.890 --> 06:37.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I just signed up with a new phone service today.
[06:37.910 --> 06:38.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Brand new phone service.
[06:38.890 --> 06:41.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, not really brand new, but something that I've been hearing a lot of advertisements for.
[06:41.610 --> 06:44.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they got to the point where they annoyed me so much that I decided to sign up.
[06:45.110 --> 06:47.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the IDT 5 cent a minute plan.
[06:48.050 --> 06:48.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[06:48.750 --> 06:49.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: You heard right.
[06:49.710 --> 06:50.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: 5 cents a minute.
[06:50.650 --> 06:51.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not 10 cents.
[06:51.270 --> 06:51.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not 9 cents.
[06:51.870 --> 06:53.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not even 8, but 5 cents.
[06:53.870 --> 06:55.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: I heard these advertisements on the radio.
[06:55.850 --> 06:57.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, wow, you know, 5 cents.
[06:57.910 --> 06:58.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's nothing.
[06:59.450 --> 07:00.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: How does it work?
[07:00.250 --> 07:01.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's the catch?
[07:01.390 --> 07:02.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's always a catch somewhere.
[07:03.270 --> 07:05.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I called up and I asked them all about this.
[07:06.310 --> 07:08.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they didn't mention...
[07:08.150 --> 07:09.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: The first time I called, they didn't mention the catch.
[07:10.010 --> 07:12.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: The second time, I already knew what the catch was.
[07:12.210 --> 07:14.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I asked them and they went into detail about what the catch is.
[07:15.070 --> 07:20.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: The catch is that when you make these phone calls, you're not actually making it over the telephone network.
[07:20.750 --> 07:22.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're making the phone calls over the internet.
[07:22.810 --> 07:24.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: But you're using a telephone.
[07:24.290 --> 07:25.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of interesting.
[07:25.310 --> 07:26.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've never used it before.
[07:26.930 --> 07:28.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: No idea what it's going to sound like.
[07:28.470 --> 07:29.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Could be really cool.
[07:29.330 --> 07:30.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Could be really bad.
[07:31.350 --> 07:33.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to use that to talk to Bernie S.
[07:33.710 --> 07:38.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, the other little caveat here is that you can't just dial OnePlus.
[07:38.230 --> 07:42.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have to sign up a line to be a OnePlus service.
[07:42.610 --> 07:45.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have to go through WorldCom on that OnePlus line.
[07:45.310 --> 07:47.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: You switch a phone line over to their service.
[07:47.690 --> 07:50.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then you use a calling card type of thing.
[07:50.750 --> 07:52.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: But you don't call an 800 number.
[07:52.210 --> 07:53.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: You call a local number.
[07:53.610 --> 07:54.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[07:54.170 --> 07:56.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You call a local number, which is fine if you have untimed service.
[07:56.890 --> 07:58.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, unlimited message rate, all that kind of thing.
[07:58.890 --> 08:00.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not so good if you have to pay per minute.
[08:01.450 --> 08:04.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, because you have to make two phone calls then to complete a single call.
[08:05.070 --> 08:07.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you have that phone number that you call up.
[08:07.870 --> 08:09.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you enter your access code.
[08:09.190 --> 08:11.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you're on your way.
[08:11.790 --> 08:12.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, we're going to do that right now.
[08:13.470 --> 08:15.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: See if we can find a phone line that works.
[08:15.210 --> 08:17.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, a lot of our phone lines are broken tonight.
[08:18.230 --> 08:18.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's too bad.
[08:18.990 --> 08:19.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's try...
[08:20.670 --> 08:21.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's try over here.
[08:22.670 --> 08:23.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, good.
[08:23.290 --> 08:23.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[08:23.470 --> 08:24.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have a phone line.
[08:25.550 --> 08:27.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to call the local number.
[08:30.430 --> 08:31.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've never done this before.
[08:39.840 --> 08:41.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to Net-to-Phone Direct.
[08:42.320 --> 08:43.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter the account number.
[08:45.060 --> 08:45.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[08:45.620 --> 08:47.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to turn down the speaker for that.
[08:47.940 --> 08:50.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Only because I don't want that going out.
[08:52.720 --> 08:55.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter your personal identification number.
[08:55.540 --> 08:57.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's something else I think I'm going to keep to myself.
[08:58.620 --> 08:59.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[08:59.320 --> 09:00.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can hear the tones way off in the distance.
[09:01.040 --> 09:01.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: How about that?
[09:01.480 --> 09:01.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here we go.
[09:12.120 --> 09:13.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Takes a while to process it.
[09:13.520 --> 09:13.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.
[09:14.200 --> 09:15.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: That is an invalid entry.
[09:15.960 --> 09:16.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not.
[09:17.080 --> 09:17.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Goodbye.
[09:17.800 --> 09:19.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you know, this is not right.
[09:19.660 --> 09:20.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: This isn't right at all.
[09:20.900 --> 09:22.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was exactly what they told me to dial.
[09:22.980 --> 09:24.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess this is why I should call first.
[09:25.820 --> 09:28.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: I figured it would be fun to try something for the first time.
[09:29.720 --> 09:30.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's try it one more time.
[09:39.630 --> 09:41.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to Net-to-Phone Direct.
[09:42.410 --> 09:44.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter the account number.
[09:45.070 --> 09:45.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[09:45.570 --> 09:45.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here we go.
[09:45.870 --> 09:46.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Enter the account number again.
[09:47.090 --> 09:49.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: It could be that our touch tones are a bit screwy.
[09:50.430 --> 09:51.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't be the first time.
[09:57.710 --> 09:58.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[09:58.170 --> 09:59.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: You see there's a pause here.
[09:59.310 --> 10:00.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not hearing.
[10:00.750 --> 10:01.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.
[10:01.790 --> 10:03.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: That is an invalid entry.
[10:04.310 --> 10:07.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I really wish somebody would get a decent phone system in here.
[10:07.690 --> 10:11.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we're going to have to keep trying until it understands all of our touch tones.
[10:17.200 --> 10:17.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[10:20.440 --> 10:23.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: See, if we had a real phone system, we'd be talking to Bernie Asper now.
[10:23.200 --> 10:24.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to Net-to-Phone Direct.
[10:25.260 --> 10:26.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter the account number.
[10:27.020 --> 10:27.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, here we go.
[10:28.420 --> 10:29.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: We are entering the account number now.
[10:33.020 --> 10:35.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter your personal identification number.
[10:35.660 --> 10:36.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so far so good.
[10:38.920 --> 10:42.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have $25 remaining in your account.
[10:43.380 --> 10:45.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please enter the number you wish to dial.
[10:45.940 --> 10:48.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, again, I have to bring that down.
[10:48.620 --> 10:50.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Those tones, they don't sound healthy.
[10:50.860 --> 10:52.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't sound healthy at all.
[10:53.640 --> 10:55.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's hope they go through.
[10:56.580 --> 10:59.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have 500 minutes of call time remaining.
[11:00.140 --> 11:00.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, good.
[11:00.820 --> 11:02.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for using Net-to-Phone Direct.
[11:02.680 --> 11:03.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just get off the phone.
[11:03.480 --> 11:04.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me talk to Bernie here.
[11:05.220 --> 11:07.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: See how bad this really sounds.
[11:07.760 --> 11:08.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can make that out.
[11:09.060 --> 11:09.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a ring.
[11:22.870 --> 11:23.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[11:23.290 --> 11:23.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[11:23.890 --> 11:24.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie S.
[11:26.150 --> 11:26.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[11:26.790 --> 11:28.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie S., can you make out who this is?
[11:29.870 --> 11:32.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can make it out, but it's kind of...
[11:32.290 --> 11:33.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of choppy?
[11:33.730 --> 11:34.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like it's going over the Internet?
[11:36.210 --> 11:39.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: That, or you're using a really good vocoder.
[11:40.010 --> 11:41.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you just went digital there for a second.
[11:42.530 --> 11:48.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, this is the pioneering age of telephony here, and you're the first victim of it, at least on this front.
[11:48.810 --> 11:49.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.
[11:49.590 --> 11:51.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: We just placed our first call.
[11:51.210 --> 11:54.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, we placed three calls through IDT so far, but finally they understood our touchstones.
[11:55.530 --> 11:56.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this is it.
[11:56.530 --> 11:57.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is the result.
[11:57.290 --> 11:57.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Five cents a minute.
[11:58.070 --> 11:58.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have 500 minutes.
[11:59.030 --> 12:00.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can talk to you for 500 minutes straight now.
[12:01.770 --> 12:03.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's actually not that bad.
[12:03.330 --> 12:04.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not bad at all.
[12:04.310 --> 12:05.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can understand you perfectly.
[12:05.530 --> 12:06.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know who you are.
[12:06.450 --> 12:07.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know what you're saying.
[12:08.710 --> 12:12.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's as good as a Sprint phone, I would say.
[12:12.350 --> 12:15.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you're on a Sprint phone, too, so we have two things against us right now.
[12:15.650 --> 12:20.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Considering that we have two things against us, I'm impressed how good it sounds.
[12:20.550 --> 12:23.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm only paying five cents a minute on my Sprint PCS phone.
[12:23.130 --> 12:26.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're paying the same as I'm paying, except I'm making the call.
[12:27.030 --> 12:27.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: How about that?
[12:27.950 --> 12:28.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[12:28.350 --> 12:31.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't like the fact that I have to pay just to receive a call.
[12:31.750 --> 12:38.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I should also point out that WBAI has to pay a local call, and I think since it's a business line, we have to pay per minute.
[12:39.050 --> 12:40.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that kind of sucks right there.
[12:40.790 --> 12:45.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have to make a local phone call to get the IDT dial tone, as it is.
[12:46.110 --> 12:50.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: So have you explained to people, to listeners, how this works, IDT?
[12:50.970 --> 12:52.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: All I know is they route it over the net.
[12:53.110 --> 12:55.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know exactly how they route it over the net.
[12:56.530 --> 13:03.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: At some point, it has to jump off the net to make it under the public switch telephone network.
[13:03.210 --> 13:03.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
[13:04.250 --> 13:06.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just am curious as to where it's jumping off.
[13:06.450 --> 13:07.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[13:07.410 --> 13:07.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[13:07.670 --> 13:12.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I imagine it's jumping off somewhere near a vicinity and jumping on someplace around here.
[13:13.430 --> 13:15.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to know what route it's taking to get to you, though.
[13:16.630 --> 13:16.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[13:17.070 --> 13:18.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be kind of interesting to do a trace route on this phone call.
[13:20.050 --> 13:20.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you do that?
[13:21.270 --> 13:23.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'd have to get access to their switch.
[13:23.770 --> 13:24.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: We've got people working on it.
[13:25.190 --> 13:25.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll let you know.
[13:25.970 --> 13:26.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good.
[13:26.730 --> 13:28.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure you have some of the best people working on it.
[13:28.630 --> 13:29.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: We haven't talked to you in a while.
[13:29.950 --> 13:30.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's been quite a while.
[13:30.890 --> 13:31.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: It has been a while.
[13:31.710 --> 13:32.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, what have you been up to?
[13:33.550 --> 13:34.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's been a few months, actually.
[13:35.070 --> 13:35.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[13:36.210 --> 13:46.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just very recently, a couple weeks or so ago, I celebrated my second anniversary from the clutches of the United States Secret Service.
[13:46.950 --> 13:48.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Been free for two years now.
[13:49.370 --> 13:50.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Freedom for two whole years.
[13:50.870 --> 13:52.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't seem like it's been that long.
[13:52.930 --> 14:02.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I'm glad you called me tonight, as a matter of fact, because I want to thank all the listeners who held with me during that whole ordeal, because that really kept me going.
[14:03.470 --> 14:04.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's a very important time.
[14:04.970 --> 14:05.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I still think about that often.
[14:05.670 --> 14:15.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's an important time to stick with somebody in a time of crisis like that, and that's why we're sticking with Kevin in his time of crisis, which has been for quite some time, almost double the amount of time you spend in prison.
[14:16.370 --> 14:18.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, a good twice that.
[14:18.230 --> 14:24.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's inconceivable to me that he's still going through that, and hasn't even had a trial yet.
[14:24.550 --> 14:30.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just like something you'd hear from, you know, some third world country or something.
[14:30.550 --> 14:30.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[14:31.130 --> 14:44.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, if you check the website, and we mentioned this last week, we have a bunch of penalties for certain crimes, all the way up to and including manslaughter, and you'll see that all of them are... they result in less time than what Kevin Mitnick is serving,
[14:45.170 --> 14:47.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: or has served so far, before his trial even.
[14:48.590 --> 14:49.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh...
[14:49.530 --> 15:04.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think a lot of this stems, unfortunately, out of ignorance, people are afraid of things they don't understand, and if they understood what exactly was being, uh, alleged that he's done, they would realize that this is no big deal.
[15:04.730 --> 15:12.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it's, you know, um, certainly not as serious as a lot of other crimes that, uh, that really most people would consider very serious.
[15:13.350 --> 15:25.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true, and that's, that's what it boils down to, is ignorance on, on many levels, and that's why those people going around, you know, spreading the words, sticking stickers in various places, and confronting their teachers in schools and colleges,
[15:25.530 --> 15:27.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: they're the ones that are really, uh, making some headway.
[15:27.510 --> 15:28.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to read a letter from one of our listeners.
[15:29.250 --> 15:35.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: After a lot of controversy and a few teachers getting quite pissed off at me, and two of my friends, we actually convinced my English slash history teacher...
[15:35.990 --> 15:37.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: How can you be an English and a history teacher?
[15:37.810 --> 15:41.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's English history, or the history of the English language or something.
[15:41.590 --> 15:42.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[15:42.010 --> 15:45.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, they convinced him to hang a free Kevin sign up in his room.
[15:45.870 --> 15:53.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that it was really interesting that when he was alerted to what the government is doing to Kevin, he said, that is scary, and sad that our government can actually do that to someone.
[15:54.170 --> 15:55.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just thought you'd like to know about that.
[15:55.930 --> 15:57.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, he really liked your zine.
[15:57.570 --> 16:00.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: I also took pictures of this and spread it out all over the, uh, the internet.
[16:00.990 --> 16:04.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, it's, um, it's an indication that sometimes you actually get through to somebody.
[16:04.750 --> 16:15.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: We've gotten countless letters from people saying how their teachers are, you know, getting them into trouble for putting up signs, and how they get into debates with, uh, various people in school about this.
[16:15.690 --> 16:16.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And...
[16:16.090 --> 16:18.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: A good thing he wasn't wearing a Pepsi t-shirt.
[16:18.270 --> 16:19.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and a Coke school.
[16:19.330 --> 16:19.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be bad.
[16:20.190 --> 16:21.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: That could be really bad.
[16:21.690 --> 16:23.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, so, yeah, the battle continues.
[16:23.710 --> 16:26.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, people are, are getting the word out in all different kinds of ways.
[16:26.670 --> 16:30.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, some people are hacking webpages, and again, we don't condone that kind of a thing.
[16:30.410 --> 16:38.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, um, hopefully the, the message that is spread is that hackers are not, uh, vandals and not evil people that are bent on destroying things.
[16:39.050 --> 16:42.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think, uh, you know, hackers have done a pretty good job of spreading that message as it is.
[16:43.110 --> 16:49.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, a lot of people, they, they listen to what they see in the media, you know, what they hear in the media, and, and what they read in the newspapers.
[16:50.050 --> 16:51.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's, uh, it's sad.
[16:51.290 --> 17:01.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what they, what they read in the newspapers is, uh, almost entirely a regurgitation of what, uh, what government, uh, officials are spouting for.
[17:01.470 --> 17:01.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[17:01.950 --> 17:07.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, because too many reporters are too lazy to, uh, to investigate something on themselves.
[17:07.430 --> 17:15.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: They'll just take a press release, and, or take verbatim what a government, uh, uh, law enforcement official might say, and, uh, just then report that as the gospel truth.
[17:15.770 --> 17:18.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: These people actually lie, believe it or not.
[17:19.170 --> 17:20.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, constantly.
[17:20.250 --> 17:20.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of times.
[17:20.970 --> 17:26.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, there's indications of this, both in your case, in Kevin's case, and all the other cases we've reported over the years.
[17:26.770 --> 17:29.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Unfortunately, unfortunately, all the cases we'll be reporting in the years to come.
[17:29.710 --> 17:35.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, we have the latest script, uh, which is dated, I believe it's dated August 15th.
[17:35.830 --> 17:40.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I might be wrong on that, but, uh, uh, there are some changes in the takedown movie.
[17:40.850 --> 17:42.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not enough, obviously, but there are some.
[17:43.530 --> 17:45.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, the biggest, of course, is...
[17:45.770 --> 17:46.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they changes?
[17:46.770 --> 17:47.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry?
[17:47.170 --> 17:48.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they changes for the better, I hope?
[17:48.630 --> 17:50.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, some are changes for the better, yeah.
[17:50.350 --> 17:55.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: When they took out the garbage can scene, you know, where Kevin smashes him more over the head with a garbage can lid, they took that out.
[17:56.510 --> 18:00.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, but, again, the, the, the impression is still there that, that Kevin is somewhat of an evil person.
[18:01.370 --> 18:03.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, you know, it's, it's making progress.
[18:04.090 --> 18:07.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, they finished shooting, so it's kind of hard to say how much more progress they can make.
[18:07.950 --> 18:14.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, until, until I hear from Kevin that this is acceptable, you know, I'm still going to be saying this is not acceptable.
[18:14.930 --> 18:15.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: How does this work?
[18:15.830 --> 18:23.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: If, if someone makes a movie about you, are you entitled to, to, uh, to have any say in what's said about you?
[18:23.350 --> 18:28.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, is, do you have to be considered a public figure before they can make a movie about you without your permission?
[18:28.850 --> 18:30.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, it's interesting, uh, I would certainly say O.J.
[18:30.950 --> 18:32.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Simpson is a public figure, wouldn't you?
[18:33.010 --> 18:34.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I haven't seen, I haven't seen a single movie about him.
[18:35.990 --> 18:39.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, I, I, I, I, there was a, there was a, there was a, there was a couple of TV movies, I think.
[18:39.430 --> 18:40.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I didn't see any.
[18:40.510 --> 18:41.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Was there a TV movie?
[18:41.210 --> 18:55.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I did not see, I, I figured that would have been hyped, maybe I'm just ignoring it, but I just have a, uh, you know, a hunch, and I know it's crazy to say something like this, but I think that the amount of justice that you get is dependent on the amount of money you have.
[18:55.310 --> 18:59.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I know that's, that's a controversial thing to say, and I know lots of people aren't going to agree with me, but...
[18:59.790 --> 19:01.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Where, where would you get such an impression?
[19:01.550 --> 19:03.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, here's the thing, here's how I reached this conclusion.
[19:04.150 --> 19:12.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Lawyers, right, they, they, they take money, right, the same kind of money that you get in your bank account, or, you know, through whatever nefarious means that you might go through.
[19:13.030 --> 19:20.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, it's by, by, by transferring that money back and forth that, I know, I think that's where some of the injustice might, uh, arise.
[19:21.030 --> 19:22.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think you found a connection.
[19:22.710 --> 19:27.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you notice that all the people that wind up in, uh, in the state they're in aren't rich.
[19:27.350 --> 19:27.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have you noticed that?
[19:28.310 --> 19:29.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: You weren't, you weren't wealthy?
[19:29.570 --> 19:29.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I...
[19:29.910 --> 19:31.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Kevin certainly isn't wealthy.
[19:31.490 --> 19:45.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would say that, uh, well over 99% of the people that I, uh, I met in the five different maximum security facilities that I had the pleasure of living in, um, over 99% of them were of little means, had very little money.
[19:46.410 --> 19:49.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd say less than 1% of them had, uh, had any money at all.
[19:49.810 --> 19:54.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: And those were the ones whose, uh, lawyers visited them frequently and were really fighting for them.
[19:55.130 --> 19:59.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's, uh, you know, without money you just don't get much justice.
[19:59.450 --> 20:00.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just the way it is.
[20:00.630 --> 20:01.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: That is the way it is.
[20:01.490 --> 20:03.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's, that's what people need to realize.
[20:03.550 --> 20:07.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because, uh, you know, when, when things happen, a lot of people will forget about you.
[20:08.430 --> 20:10.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: They really will, no matter how innocent you are.
[20:11.210 --> 20:13.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it really just boils down to how much you can cough up.
[20:13.910 --> 20:18.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, when you, when you prove yourself to be innocent or whatever, it doesn't end there.
[20:19.070 --> 20:19.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[20:19.630 --> 20:20.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't end there at all.
[20:20.270 --> 20:34.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Remember the case of Craig Nidoff, which is one of the first cases we reported on these airwaves when we started doing this show back in the late eighties, someone was actually charged with, with publishing something illegal, found to be completely not guilty.
[20:34.050 --> 20:35.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: The government wound up dropping the case.
[20:35.590 --> 20:36.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was so bad.
[20:36.650 --> 20:39.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, he still had to pay for all the legal fees, which was about a hundred thousand dollars.
[20:40.590 --> 20:42.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he's still, still in debt.
[20:43.050 --> 20:44.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if he's still in debt.
[20:44.150 --> 20:45.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't talked to him in a while, but it's quite possible.
[20:45.890 --> 20:48.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: If I had to spend a hundred thousand dollars 10 years ago, I'd still be in debt now.
[20:48.870 --> 20:51.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I guess it's, uh, it's, it's quite likely.
[20:52.030 --> 20:53.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's something people have to remember.
[20:54.130 --> 20:57.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm fed up with people who say, oh, well, Kevin was a criminal.
[20:57.650 --> 21:01.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: He, uh, you know, he deserves to be in prison because he, he did the crime.
[21:01.410 --> 21:03.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: He should be prepared to do the time and all that garbage.
[21:04.250 --> 21:10.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, first of all, even if he did do the crime, how much, how much of a penalty do you want this person to serve?
[21:10.350 --> 21:18.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, four years now for basically making a few free phone calls and, and logging into some things he wasn't supposed to log into and maybe copying a few files.
[21:18.150 --> 21:22.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not talking about somebody who sold anything, did any damage or profited in any way.
[21:22.750 --> 21:27.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: So they're fairly minor crimes compared to the crimes that are really out there.
[21:27.190 --> 21:35.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, like, you know, I think that you throw your baby in a garbage pail, you throw your baby in a garbage pail and you get two years, you know, that's, that's what happened to those kids in New Jersey.
[21:35.650 --> 21:40.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not that I'm criticizing them in any way, you know, that's, that's a lifestyle choice, I guess.
[21:40.990 --> 21:43.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: But come on, two years for that.
[21:43.690 --> 21:45.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Kevin's in for almost four now.
[21:45.350 --> 21:46.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's something wrong with that.
[21:46.290 --> 22:02.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: When the government starts making outlandish claims and saying how this person is extremely dangerous, that sort of thing, for them to come clean and say, well, it really wasn't as serious as we said it is, would be very embarrassing and would affect their credibility.
[22:02.210 --> 22:07.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they have to justify all their statements with keeping him locked up.
[22:08.150 --> 22:15.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if they don't keep him locked up, then it'll look like they were just, you know, blowing smoke back in the beginning of this case.
[22:15.490 --> 22:20.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you see, there's also another, another thing coming up here, which is the trial in January.
[22:20.550 --> 22:24.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: The government has to have a good case by then if they don't have a good case.
[22:24.630 --> 22:30.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: You see, I think what they're counting on, they're counting on him reaching some sort of an agreement right before the trial.
[22:31.110 --> 22:38.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: As, as happens with most cases, when people are charged with crimes, almost always they wind up pleading to something only to stop the nightmare.
[22:38.810 --> 22:56.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, that's, I remember you had to make a deal with the devil, as you called it, because... Yeah, I was basically told that I would be... that it's a complicated thing, but the bottom line is if I didn't plead guilty, I'd be looking at additional years of being locked up.
[22:57.190 --> 22:58.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and that scares everybody.
[22:59.150 --> 23:09.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's very easy to say, well, stand your ground, hold in there, but when you've been locked up for months and months on end with no light at the end of the tunnel, you're desperate to get it over with.
[23:09.430 --> 23:09.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[23:10.150 --> 23:20.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just, it's a situation that I, unfortunately, people can't relate to, but on the other hand, I think it's fortunate that most people don't have to ever relate to it, because I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
[23:20.910 --> 23:22.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, here's another aspect to this whole case.
[23:23.090 --> 23:36.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: There are 9.75 gigs of data that is said to be evidence against Kevin Mitnick, and they have so far not let him look at any of that, and as we've learned, his lawyer has not even begun the process of looking at it.
[23:37.250 --> 23:38.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's now October.
[23:38.470 --> 23:40.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: The trial is set for three months from now.
[23:40.850 --> 23:46.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: There is no way you can prepare yourself with that amount of information in that amount of time.
[23:46.230 --> 23:54.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, my theory on this is that his lawyer is counting on the same thing, that some sort of a deal will be struck, and they won't have to look through 9.75 gigs.
[23:54.510 --> 24:01.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: What I don't think they're counting on is Kevin's resilience here, and the fact that he's been in jail three and a half years now.
[24:01.270 --> 24:02.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a ridiculous amount of time.
[24:03.210 --> 24:07.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Free Kevin movement is bigger than anyone ever imagined it would be at this point.
[24:08.690 --> 24:11.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Someone's going to have to blink, and I don't think it's going to be Kevin.
[24:12.950 --> 24:13.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think so.
[24:14.550 --> 24:23.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm hopeful that his court dates are covered appropriately by the press, because people need to know what's going on.
[24:24.390 --> 24:29.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in my case, I was just given printouts of the contents of my hard drive.
[24:29.530 --> 24:35.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can imagine what reams and reams of paper, how easy it is to do a search for a particular keyword that you're looking for.
[24:37.370 --> 24:46.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, the government has unlimited tools and money at their disposal to put together an effective case, and they deny you the same tools as they're doing to Kevin.
[24:48.250 --> 24:52.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a pretty uneven balance of...
[24:52.470 --> 24:59.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's also, they're abusing that authority quite a bit, because let's say they find a piece of information that they consider to be evidence.
[24:59.990 --> 25:02.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have to provide that to the defense as well.
[25:02.550 --> 25:10.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: However, what they're doing is taking the entire system that they found and saying, yeah, the evidence is in here.
[25:10.190 --> 25:11.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here's the evidence.
[25:11.450 --> 25:13.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: And giving them a couple of gigs of information.
[25:13.910 --> 25:15.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's like finding a needle.
[25:15.710 --> 25:15.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[25:15.910 --> 25:16.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Finding a needle in a haystack.
[25:17.210 --> 25:22.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like throwing that exculpatory needle in a haystack and saying, yeah, there it is.
[25:22.350 --> 25:23.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's all in a discovery.
[25:23.290 --> 25:24.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: That discovery is in that haystack somewhere.
[25:24.970 --> 25:25.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go find it.
[25:26.130 --> 25:28.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, they know where it is, but nobody else knows where it is.
[25:28.430 --> 25:29.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's an abuse of power.
[25:29.930 --> 25:32.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: And because it involves computers, a lot of people don't see that.
[25:32.570 --> 25:33.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't realize that.
[25:33.470 --> 25:36.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what we're trying to wake people up on.
[25:36.970 --> 25:38.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to take some phone calls.
[25:38.390 --> 25:50.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: One thing I think, real quick, I just want to say, and I don't want to go off into a tangent, but I hear a lot of people making a lot of noise and complaining about this Ken Starr investigation and how unfair and how much money they wasted on this ludicrous,
[25:50.230 --> 25:51.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: stupid case.
[25:51.410 --> 25:56.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what most people fail to realize is this is standard operating procedure for federal prosecutors.
[25:57.230 --> 25:58.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: They always do this kind of stuff.
[25:58.990 --> 26:04.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: This isn't like an exceptional situation with these cases.
[26:04.530 --> 26:10.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just federal prosecutors just, they have an unlimited budget, and they will say whatever they have to say to get what they want.
[26:10.670 --> 26:13.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's the same in all these cases.
[26:13.610 --> 26:14.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's really disgusting.
[26:14.830 --> 26:18.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: But now people, I think, waking up to do this, but I think it's peculiar.
[26:18.430 --> 26:21.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: They think, oh, because it's the president, that it's so much effort we spent.
[26:22.170 --> 26:23.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: They do this way all the time.
[26:23.770 --> 26:25.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I just wanted to get that out there.
[26:25.770 --> 26:30.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I'm the only one who feels more comfortable knowing that we have a president who openly admits to lying.
[26:30.510 --> 26:32.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I just think that's something refreshing.
[26:32.650 --> 26:36.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if he had admitted to inhaling, I would have made me feel even better, actually.
[26:38.090 --> 26:43.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I just, I'm so fed up with these people who act holier than thou, saying, oh, but he lied.
[26:43.470 --> 26:44.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't matter what he lied about.
[26:44.830 --> 26:52.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'd have to wonder what kind of, you know, of exhibitionist he would have to be if he didn't lie about having an affair.
[26:52.450 --> 26:53.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's like, yeah, I had an affair.
[26:53.950 --> 26:55.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, let me brag about it a bit.
[26:55.890 --> 26:57.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course he's trying to lie about that.
[26:57.210 --> 26:59.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's like, you know, that makes sense.
[26:59.730 --> 27:00.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[27:00.910 --> 27:05.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, I mean, if he lies on his golf game, right, if he exaggerates that, are you going to impeach him for that?
[27:06.130 --> 27:06.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Seriously?
[27:07.790 --> 27:08.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[27:08.350 --> 27:09.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about something important here.
[27:09.930 --> 27:11.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: He adds a couple of strokes or what?
[27:11.350 --> 27:11.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Takes him away.
[27:11.890 --> 27:12.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: How's his golf work?
[27:12.510 --> 27:12.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: You take him away.
[27:12.990 --> 27:13.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[27:13.850 --> 27:18.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: He does that and he's questioned about it and all of a sudden his numbers aren't quite adding up.
[27:18.310 --> 27:23.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's got to appear before Kenneth Starr on this issue and before the whole Congress and the American people has to apologize.
[27:24.490 --> 27:25.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's silly.
[27:25.490 --> 27:26.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what it boils down to.
[27:27.030 --> 27:27.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really silly.
[27:28.430 --> 27:29.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I don't know.
[27:29.810 --> 27:31.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess it's something to talk about when there's not much else to talk about.
[27:32.750 --> 27:33.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[27:33.170 --> 27:34.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, how about different callers?
[27:34.330 --> 27:35.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Where are they going to talk about?
[27:35.270 --> 27:43.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, before we take the callers, which will be in a moment or two, 212-209-2900, I just want to quickly mention a couple of phone items.
[27:44.810 --> 27:46.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Bernie, perhaps you've heard of some of these.
[27:47.150 --> 27:51.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: AT&T is now offering what they call chat and talk.
[27:51.590 --> 27:52.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have you heard about this one?
[27:53.190 --> 27:53.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: What talk?
[27:53.930 --> 27:54.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Chat and talk.
[27:55.670 --> 27:56.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Chat and?
[27:56.410 --> 27:56.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Chat.
[27:56.950 --> 27:57.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: As in talk.
[27:57.850 --> 27:58.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, chat and talk.
[27:58.630 --> 27:59.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Basically, it's the same word twice.
[27:59.830 --> 28:01.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why they say it.
[28:01.690 --> 28:02.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Chat and talk.
[28:03.570 --> 28:05.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: With confidentiality.
[28:05.490 --> 28:05.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[28:05.930 --> 28:09.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now you can call people in a chat room without exchanging phone numbers.
[28:09.930 --> 28:15.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have you ever wanted to talk over the telephone to someone you met in a chat room but didn't want to reveal your phone number?
[28:15.530 --> 28:21.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: With AT&T chat and talk, it's easy to make a telephone call to anyone in a chat room without exchanging phone numbers.
[28:21.450 --> 28:27.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Simply browse to our website and let AT&T chat and talk place a call to you and a call to the person from the chat room.
[28:27.630 --> 28:30.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Both phone numbers will be kept confidential even to people with caller ID.
[28:31.150 --> 28:32.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think about that?
[28:33.970 --> 28:35.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's pretty silly.
[28:35.270 --> 28:38.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: AT&T's wasting their time with it.
[28:38.130 --> 28:40.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, basically, it's a form of conference calling.
[28:41.010 --> 28:43.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's not really conference calling because it's just two people.
[28:44.070 --> 28:52.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it costs $0.15 a minute per party and a $0.50... a $0.50... oh, it's only a promotion.
[28:52.310 --> 28:52.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[28:52.970 --> 28:58.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: $0.15 per minute during the promotion period, $0.25 per minute after November 1st and a $0.50 set up charge.
[28:58.590 --> 28:59.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, you buy $0.05 a minute?
[28:59.690 --> 28:59.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[29:00.290 --> 29:00.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Per call.
[29:00.970 --> 29:01.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Per person, rather.
[29:01.670 --> 29:04.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you'd be paying $0.50 a minute because you'd be the one initiating it.
[29:05.050 --> 29:07.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you have to use a major credit card and all that kind of thing.
[29:09.370 --> 29:12.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure there's a way to find the phone number somebody's using when they do that.
[29:13.090 --> 29:13.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure there's a way.
[29:14.750 --> 29:15.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.
[29:16.070 --> 29:17.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Any other new things?
[29:17.190 --> 29:18.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Sprint has something.
[29:18.410 --> 29:19.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you've seen this one.
[29:19.630 --> 29:21.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Short calls are free.
[29:21.170 --> 29:21.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have you heard this?
[29:22.590 --> 29:23.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Short calls?
[29:23.470 --> 29:23.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[29:23.910 --> 29:28.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have these advertisers on TV now where they say that if you make a short call, it's free.
[29:28.830 --> 29:30.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: A call under 30 seconds.
[29:30.890 --> 29:31.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Isn't that great?
[29:31.290 --> 29:32.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: It used to be that way.
[29:32.350 --> 29:37.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it used to be if you made a call under like three seconds, the switch wouldn't catch it and it would be free.
[29:37.130 --> 29:38.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: But these are 30 second calls.
[29:38.990 --> 29:40.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, you know, that's not bad.
[29:40.470 --> 29:41.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's not a bad deal.
[29:41.290 --> 29:46.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's actually kind of cool because you could make some calls and, you know, wouldn't have to spend money on them and get the message out.
[29:46.790 --> 29:53.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a lot more efficient than trying to squeeze everything into that collect call name thing that you have to like say your name and have that delivered.
[29:54.030 --> 29:55.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: You ever communicate that way?
[29:55.970 --> 29:57.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's fraud, by the way.
[29:57.090 --> 29:57.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: How about if you get two phone lines?
[29:57.750 --> 29:58.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry?
[29:58.210 --> 30:09.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: How about if you get two phone lines at each end and you have sort of switching arrangements so it's each, every 30 seconds, it switches over to the other line and back and forth.
[30:09.770 --> 30:10.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or you do it between three lines.
[30:10.850 --> 30:12.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: It could be like a handoff kind of thing.
[30:13.150 --> 30:20.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: So then you're like continuously switching over from line to line every 30 seconds while the next line is already dialing and getting ready to connect at the next time.
[30:20.830 --> 30:23.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could build a box at each end and just take advantage of that.
[30:23.790 --> 30:25.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And all day long and all night you could talk.
[30:25.630 --> 30:32.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, they've thought of people like you and there is a little exception to this.
[30:32.230 --> 30:38.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I was able to, if you're careful and you see one of these ads come across the TV and you record it, you got a freeze frame, right?
[30:38.790 --> 30:42.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: You freeze frame and there's only, I think, like two frames where it shows up.
[30:42.390 --> 30:48.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you need to have the auto zoom focus on your TV as well so that you can zoom into the words that are on the bottom of the screen.
[30:48.190 --> 30:52.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it says in tiny print... Oh, and also make sure that it's not white on white.
[30:52.230 --> 30:54.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: You got to get rid of the white background and the white lettering.
[30:54.330 --> 31:04.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then using the filter focus and all that kind of thing, you can see the words that basically say that this is limited to 30 calls per month, which is basically one call a day.
[31:04.650 --> 31:05.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Big deal.
[31:05.530 --> 31:06.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you know what?
[31:06.430 --> 31:07.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: That amounts to what?
[31:10.170 --> 31:11.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: What are you saving?
[31:11.250 --> 31:12.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you saving like three bucks?
[31:12.790 --> 31:13.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: 15 minutes.
[31:13.730 --> 31:14.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's 15 minutes.
[31:14.830 --> 31:16.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's under 30 seconds.
[31:16.250 --> 31:17.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's under 30 seconds.
[31:18.050 --> 31:22.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, but it's, but 15, which 30 calls you're allowed to do this way?
[31:22.290 --> 31:22.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[31:23.810 --> 31:24.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, uh...
[31:24.610 --> 31:24.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's $3.
[31:25.390 --> 31:28.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's only 15, that's only 15 minutes of total, total usage.
[31:28.850 --> 31:30.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but it's, it's $3, right?
[31:30.570 --> 31:33.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: 10 cents a minute times 30?
[31:33.650 --> 31:33.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I guess, yeah.
[31:34.310 --> 31:34.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[31:35.110 --> 31:38.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: The, the, the fee for using this service is $4.50.
[31:38.890 --> 31:39.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, man.
[31:39.750 --> 31:41.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you're not gaining anything.
[31:41.550 --> 31:42.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're not gaining a damn thing.
[31:43.150 --> 31:44.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's clearly a gimmick.
[31:44.430 --> 31:45.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a gimmick, alright.
[31:45.730 --> 31:48.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's, uh, that's the latest on that one.
[31:48.310 --> 31:50.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: That I only found out about a couple of days ago.
[31:50.910 --> 31:53.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, Bell Atlantic on Monday.
[31:53.670 --> 31:55.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, while you're on the, while you're on the Sprint thing?
[31:55.450 --> 31:55.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[31:56.270 --> 31:57.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was just Sprint we were talking about, wasn't it?
[31:57.830 --> 31:58.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was Sprint.
[31:58.930 --> 32:01.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's, uh, that was Sprint long distance.
[32:01.190 --> 32:03.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is a Sprint PCS I gotta say something about.
[32:03.610 --> 32:21.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, just I think last week, uh, Qualcomm, the manufacturer of a CDMA handset that Sprint PCS uses, has announced that they have, uh, melded a POM pilot, or a, a POM 3, the latest POM pilot incarnation, with a CDMA handset.
[32:22.410 --> 32:27.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's, uh, it's a complete handheld, um, information appliance that's wireless.
[32:28.230 --> 32:40.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, what's interesting about it is it will, uh, allow direct native, uh, IP connectivity between this handset and, uh, the, uh, internet service that, um, Sprint PCS will provide.
[32:41.010 --> 32:45.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: So eventually you'll, uh, come January when they start marketing these things, you'll be able to carry around.
[32:45.410 --> 32:47.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can, you can put the internet in your pocket.
[32:47.810 --> 32:48.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh boy.
[32:48.730 --> 32:49.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: What a lot of fun that's going to be.
[32:52.170 --> 33:03.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, continuing with, uh, with Bell Atlantic, they, on Monday, launched their long awaited digital subscriber line service in Washington and Pittsburgh, making its commercial entry into the high-speed internet access business.
[33:03.690 --> 33:05.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, we're talking about DSL.
[33:06.290 --> 33:08.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, they're calling it Bell Atlantic Info Speed.
[33:08.950 --> 33:10.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: They pay people to come up with these names.
[33:10.830 --> 33:17.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, they'll be offering, uh, the service really soon to Philadelphia, New York City, Boston, and New Jersey by early 1999.
[33:17.970 --> 33:21.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: It helps to target small and medium businesses as well as home users.
[33:21.250 --> 33:25.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's basically what we've been waiting for as we, uh, learn more about that.
[33:25.730 --> 33:27.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Have they announced the tariffs yet for this?
[33:27.430 --> 33:28.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have not.
[33:28.150 --> 33:28.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not as of yet.
[33:29.310 --> 33:36.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but I do know from being out in California that it goes for about 150 bucks a month, but that's for really high T1 type speeds.
[33:38.150 --> 33:38.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm.
[33:40.330 --> 33:41.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: That doesn't sound too bad.
[33:42.170 --> 33:42.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[33:42.750 --> 33:44.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think, uh, Wicked has something to say about this.
[33:44.670 --> 33:46.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're not going to chicken out this week?
[33:46.150 --> 33:47.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to actually say something?
[33:47.770 --> 33:48.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[33:48.830 --> 33:51.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: On, uh, I think it was CNN when, uh, they announced it.
[33:52.090 --> 33:55.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they said it would be, uh, 70 bucks a month in New York.
[33:55.430 --> 33:56.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: What kind of speed?
[33:56.790 --> 33:57.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: That item here.
[33:57.730 --> 33:57.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[33:57.990 --> 34:02.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or just, you know, it's just the, you know, business announcement, so.
[34:02.370 --> 34:03.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that would be good.
[34:03.210 --> 34:03.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be good.
[34:03.750 --> 34:05.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: But again, it's dependent on what kind of speed they offer.
[34:06.490 --> 34:08.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, the availability and all that kind of thing.
[34:09.770 --> 34:12.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody, uh, wrote in to complain about, uh, cable modems.
[34:13.170 --> 34:15.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see if I have that, uh, that letter here.
[34:15.570 --> 34:16.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Ah, yes.
[34:16.590 --> 34:16.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: MediaOne.
[34:17.490 --> 34:21.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: MediaOne is a company out in the Midwest, I believe, that offers, uh, cable modems.
[34:22.030 --> 34:25.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: The thing that bugs me most about their service agreement is that they don't allow you to run a server.
[34:26.210 --> 34:28.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't say this right out, but it's pretty much implied.
[34:28.850 --> 34:31.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: The service is a cable programming service for personal use.
[34:32.010 --> 34:35.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: You agree not to resell or redistribute access to the service in any manner.
[34:35.870 --> 34:41.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: The prohibition on resell or redistribution of access includes, but is not limited to, the provision of email and FTP.
[34:42.630 --> 34:46.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh, I guess you could interpret that to mean that you can't access your own files.
[34:46.930 --> 34:47.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, really?
[34:47.810 --> 34:51.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Basically, it's, um, you know, the cable company's running the show.
[34:51.350 --> 34:52.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what you have to worry about.
[34:52.450 --> 34:54.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: The cable company is controlling the whole thing.
[34:54.810 --> 34:58.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they don't want you to be able to, uh, control any aspect of it.
[34:58.750 --> 35:01.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, they can spy on you and they can tell you what not to do.
[35:02.510 --> 35:04.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's, it's not really the way to go.
[35:04.750 --> 35:15.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, DSL on the other hand goes through, um, uh, the phone company, but also, uh, independent providers offer the service through them.
[35:15.790 --> 35:18.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you can basically shop around and that's, that's kind of good.
[35:19.210 --> 35:23.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, someone else wrote in to, uh, comment on the value cards we were talking about.
[35:23.850 --> 35:24.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I believe that was last week.
[35:25.290 --> 35:28.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've got a deck of them that I have dissected from the Atlanta Olympics.
[35:28.550 --> 35:29.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: They were stored value cards.
[35:29.810 --> 35:32.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: They stored a value with an RSA style signature from the bank.
[35:32.610 --> 35:36.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: When you make a purchase, it would verify the signature and place a new value on the card.
[35:36.470 --> 35:38.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: The new signature was produced via a phone line.
[35:39.170 --> 35:42.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't care for them because most clerks didn't know how to accept them.
[35:42.250 --> 35:44.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: You also can't tell how much is on the card.
[35:44.730 --> 35:46.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you lose the card, you lose.
[35:46.850 --> 35:50.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there was no advantage of using one over a credit card.
[35:50.910 --> 35:53.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh, yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense.
[35:53.870 --> 35:54.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why, why is that?
[35:55.550 --> 36:02.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Speaking of things not being accepted, I, uh, was at a train station recently just last week and, uh, needed to buy a ticket and all I had was a $20 bill.
[36:02.970 --> 36:05.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was one of these funky new $20 bills.
[36:05.370 --> 36:05.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I've seen those.
[36:06.150 --> 36:11.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: There were these red stickers, there were these red stickers all over the ticket machine saying, this machine, this ticket machine does not accept the new $20 bills.
[36:12.030 --> 36:12.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, great.
[36:13.070 --> 36:13.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was out of luck.
[36:14.330 --> 36:15.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's terrible.
[36:15.270 --> 36:16.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't accept the new $20 bills.
[36:17.010 --> 36:17.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's bad enough.
[36:17.770 --> 36:22.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Those, those ticket machines, they, they don't give you change over $20, you know?
[36:22.350 --> 36:28.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you have to buy a ticket and, and, you know, it's, it's, uh, a lot of times they don't even accept $20 bills at all.
[36:29.110 --> 36:32.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: But if you don't buy a ticket through them, somehow you get charged extra on the train.
[36:32.850 --> 36:33.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not fair.
[36:33.690 --> 36:36.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's no humans to argue with except on the train when you're stuck.
[36:37.990 --> 36:39.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really, uh, really kind of sucks there.
[36:40.250 --> 36:42.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: And finally, our last letter before we take some phone calls.
[36:43.150 --> 36:48.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, yesterday was a very interesting day, uh, for telephone services in the state of Oklahoma, yesterday being Monday.
[36:48.850 --> 36:52.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: I woke up at 1230 or so and attempted to use my dial-up ISP.
[36:53.070 --> 36:54.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: When I tried to dial out, I got nothing.
[36:54.730 --> 36:56.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: No dial tone, no busy signal, nothing.
[36:57.150 --> 37:00.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thinking it was my modem that was causing the problem, I picked up my phone and got the same.
[37:01.410 --> 37:02.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Whole lot of nothing.
[37:02.990 --> 37:08.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come to find out that a major switching station at Southwestern Bell in Tulsa, Oklahoma had been damaged.
[37:09.490 --> 37:11.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: It rendered all calls useless.
[37:11.170 --> 37:12.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: For a good part of the day, most phones were out of service.
[37:13.150 --> 37:16.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: At one point, the 911 system was out for almost two hours.
[37:16.670 --> 37:29.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, some of the other problems that, uh, came from this outage, almost all credit card verification systems were down, bank branches were down, ATMs were down, paging and cellulist systems were down, and of course, the internet was unavailable.
[37:29.750 --> 37:31.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: At about 5.30 p.m.
[37:31.210 --> 37:32.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Central Time, the switch came back on.
[37:33.450 --> 37:38.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it was interesting to see how vulnerable we really are to something we take for granted, like telephone systems.
[37:38.630 --> 37:42.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Southwestern Bell blamed the switch outage on a heavy storm that, uh, came through.
[37:42.950 --> 37:44.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, at least they didn't blame the hacker this time.
[37:44.530 --> 37:45.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, not this time.
[37:45.590 --> 37:46.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not this time.
[37:46.190 --> 37:53.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, something else that's equivalent to a heavy storm, which is heading our way, oh, in about a year or so, is the year, the year 2000.
[37:54.130 --> 37:59.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I've been hearing nothing but hysteria about this for the last few months.
[37:59.050 --> 38:08.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's probably about time for us to start mentioning it, since, after all, we are all doomed, and probably the planet's gonna burn out in another 18 months, or however long it takes, uh, for the effects to be felt.
[38:09.110 --> 38:10.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, have you heard much about this, Bernie?
[38:11.890 --> 38:13.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've been reading a lot, uh, on the internet about it.
[38:14.090 --> 38:16.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, everything you read on the internet must be true.
[38:16.810 --> 38:17.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh... I believe that.
[38:19.190 --> 38:19.530]  Yeah.
[38:19.530 --> 38:21.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, um, it's pretty interesting.
[38:21.450 --> 38:29.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, uh, been, uh, reading newspaper articles, and internet, and, uh, television shows, and so forth, and, uh, a lot of people are very, very afraid of what's gonna happen.
[38:30.830 --> 38:39.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, basically, the year is going to change, and the only difference is that instead of, uh, two digits changing, or even three digits, four digits of the year are going to change.
[38:39.590 --> 38:40.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's really it.
[38:41.030 --> 38:47.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, now, the problem is that computer programmers of the past, mainly the 60s, 70s, I don't know what they were thinking.
[38:47.830 --> 38:54.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what they were smoking, but they somehow didn't think that entering more than two digits of a year was necessary.
[38:54.050 --> 39:00.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, obviously, that's gonna run into a problem when 99 turns over, and computers think it's 1900.
[39:00.150 --> 39:02.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what computers are gonna do when they think it's 1900.
[39:02.670 --> 39:04.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're gonna say, hey, I'm not supposed to be here.
[39:04.310 --> 39:07.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not, you know, I'm not invented yet, so therefore I must shut down.
[39:08.030 --> 39:09.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't, I don't get it.
[39:09.970 --> 39:16.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, there's going to be some sort of a problem, but it's a problem that we know about, something that we've had plenty of time to prepare for.
[39:16.890 --> 39:20.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Rewrite operating systems, rewrite programs, you know, work around it somehow.
[39:21.070 --> 39:33.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's gonna be unpredictable results, but I'm getting mail every day from people, and these are people that are reasonably minded, saying, I'd better start stockpiling food now, I have to buy a gun, you know, I have to start making a checklist of the people I'm going to allow in the shelter.
[39:34.190 --> 39:37.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not that I even have a shelter, but that's what I have to start building as of next week.
[39:38.090 --> 39:40.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, this isn't a Twilight Zone episode, this is real life.
[39:40.850 --> 39:44.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: What, this is something that's going to affect everybody in the world.
[39:44.390 --> 39:49.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't see why everything is going to grind to a halt, even if the phones stop working, even if computers stop working.
[39:50.350 --> 40:03.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we'll stumble through it somehow, but I don't think we're going to... Probably what's going to happen, this is my prediction, we are going to see significant financial problems and all kinds of panic, but it's going to be because of people acting like this,
[40:03.770 --> 40:09.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: pulling all their money out of banks, you know, shooting each other for minor infractions, things like that.
[40:09.370 --> 40:14.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're going to see a breakdown in society, but it's going to be because of society and not because of technology.
[40:15.850 --> 40:16.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think?
[40:16.510 --> 40:25.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think once one senator already said in one of one of these year 2000 hearings about a month ago that that martial law was not out of the question.
[40:27.130 --> 40:27.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is a senator.
[40:28.170 --> 40:29.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wish I wish I had it in front of me.
[40:29.810 --> 40:30.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Martial law.
[40:30.390 --> 40:32.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's you know, martial law does not work well with people like me.
[40:32.950 --> 40:33.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can tell you that right now.
[40:33.850 --> 40:34.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: We were in North Carolina.
[40:34.850 --> 40:42.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: We had we had the we had the curfew in North Carolina the day after the hurricane and we were just looking for reasons to be outside.
[40:42.450 --> 40:47.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, that you do martial law, you're going to have all kinds of disobedience.
[40:47.330 --> 40:48.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Some people just don't go for it.
[40:49.210 --> 40:51.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think you're allowed to wear a baseball cap backwards during martial law.
[40:52.010 --> 40:53.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I did that in St. Louis.
[40:53.850 --> 40:56.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Got in a lot of trouble for that, but that's another another story there.
[40:57.210 --> 40:58.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's take some phone calls.
[40:58.210 --> 40:59.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2900.
[41:00.330 --> 41:01.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I should warn you.
[41:01.410 --> 41:02.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: First of all, we're speaking to Bernie S.
[41:02.750 --> 41:10.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: in Philadelphia, but we're speaking to him in an unusual way over the internet using a company called IDT and paying only five cents a minute.
[41:10.770 --> 41:11.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[41:11.330 --> 41:12.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can't really tell a difference.
[41:13.850 --> 41:14.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm impressed.
[41:14.490 --> 41:15.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's a pretty good service.
[41:15.750 --> 41:16.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: You seem pretty clear.
[41:16.670 --> 41:16.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's reliable.
[41:17.070 --> 41:20.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: But of course, maybe nobody else is using the service right now.
[41:20.290 --> 41:27.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, maybe when it gets a little overloaded, they'll have the sprint syndrome where all of a sudden you can't get lines or access or everybody sounds terrible.
[41:28.490 --> 41:30.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, it's something that we'll keep an eye on.
[41:31.490 --> 41:34.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the other thing is our phone lines are all messed up here at the radio station.
[41:34.550 --> 41:36.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, the line that you're normally on is not available.
[41:36.650 --> 41:39.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're over here on line number eight.
[41:39.590 --> 41:43.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, that line does not stay on all the time.
[41:43.330 --> 41:47.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I'm going to have to put you on hold whenever I hang up on somebody.
[41:47.270 --> 41:48.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: And hopefully, I won't disconnect you.
[41:49.030 --> 41:53.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: If I do disconnect you, it's going to be a real pain to get a hold of you again through this IDT thing, but...
[41:53.210 --> 41:54.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, well, then I'll just have another beer.
[41:55.110 --> 41:57.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe that's a wise move.
[41:58.130 --> 41:59.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, we're going to take another phone call now.
[41:59.530 --> 42:00.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully, we won't lose you when we do this.
[42:01.990 --> 42:02.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[42:02.610 --> 42:03.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[42:03.130 --> 42:04.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[42:04.270 --> 42:04.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: How are you doing?
[42:04.790 --> 42:05.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Make it quick.
[42:05.610 --> 42:05.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[42:05.990 --> 42:07.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just wanted to ask Bernie a question.
[42:07.990 --> 42:08.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[42:09.330 --> 42:12.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know how you talk about access devices, like calling cards and stuff?
[42:13.310 --> 42:13.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, Rebel.
[42:14.870 --> 42:18.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is a phone book considered an access device, like with telephone numbers?
[42:19.650 --> 42:20.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[42:20.790 --> 42:21.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why is that?
[42:21.850 --> 42:24.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: The reason I ask is because of the following.
[42:25.050 --> 42:28.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: AT&T, you can make free phone calls...
[42:28.110 --> 42:34.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rebel, let me tell you what I know from reading the United States criminal code, Title 18.
[42:34.830 --> 42:42.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: An access device is defined as any card, code, plate, or account number, or other means of account access.
[42:43.250 --> 42:43.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[42:45.090 --> 42:45.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, but...
[42:45.650 --> 42:46.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to say some other stuff, too.
[42:47.070 --> 42:50.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, but you know how AT&T puts third number calls through without asking?
[42:51.210 --> 42:52.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gee, really?
[42:52.450 --> 42:59.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could just take a phone book and just, you know, put, you know, use that as like an access device to make fraudulent calls.
[42:59.750 --> 43:03.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the phone book is really, or phone numbers are considered like an access device.
[43:03.810 --> 43:06.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: So basically what you're saying is that the phone book is a big access device.
[43:07.030 --> 43:07.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: I see that's an interesting point.
[43:08.070 --> 43:08.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think, Bernie?
[43:10.250 --> 43:10.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow, I did it.
[43:10.570 --> 43:11.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might have an angle there.
[43:11.610 --> 43:12.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: I got rid of him, and I kept you.
[43:13.550 --> 43:13.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[43:13.870 --> 43:15.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Without anybody realizing what was happening.
[43:15.430 --> 43:15.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty good.
[43:16.110 --> 43:17.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm glad it wasn't the other way around.
[43:17.690 --> 43:18.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's, uh...
[43:18.930 --> 43:20.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: You want to answer that question, or you want to go on to another phone call?
[43:20.650 --> 43:25.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, well, I'm sure some federal prosecutor could argue, uh, could argue that.
[43:25.350 --> 43:27.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: I remember, uh, they'll, they'll stretch as much as they can.
[43:27.870 --> 43:35.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: I remember briefly, there was, uh, one case while I was locked up, uh, uh, an alleged arsonist was, uh, was charged federally.
[43:35.310 --> 43:37.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm wondering, what's the, uh, what's the interstate commerce connection?
[43:38.130 --> 43:44.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, the federal, according to the Constitution, no federal law can be, no, Congress can pass no law that does not, uh, affect interstate commerce.
[43:44.870 --> 43:47.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying to think, how does arson affect interstate commerce?
[43:47.410 --> 44:00.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he said the prosecutor argued in his case that because there were telephones in the building that he was alleged to have burned down, and the telephones were connected to the interstate telephone network, therefore it affected interstate commerce.
[44:00.810 --> 44:03.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, if they have to stretch, they will.
[44:03.470 --> 44:08.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: They can get away with anything involving the internet, because no matter what computer you're connected to, it's connected to the net, and that's interstate.
[44:08.990 --> 44:12.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, they also have kidnapping is a federal crime, carjacking is a federal crime.
[44:13.470 --> 44:17.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't quite understand But there always has to be an interstate commerce connection.
[44:18.050 --> 44:24.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: That if you read the fine print in all these laws, it always says, whoever in interstate commerce does blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[44:25.070 --> 44:27.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: But they really stretch on that thing.
[44:27.270 --> 44:29.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: But that's the only thing they can use to justify a federal law.
[44:29.750 --> 44:30.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Otherwise, it's not constitutional.
[44:31.050 --> 44:31.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's take another phone call.
[44:32.030 --> 44:32.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[44:32.450 --> 44:32.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[44:34.090 --> 44:34.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Speak up, please.
[44:35.390 --> 44:36.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, sorry.
[44:36.450 --> 44:38.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, is Philip there with you?
[44:38.290 --> 44:38.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, he is not.
[44:38.990 --> 44:39.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
[44:40.630 --> 44:42.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: But he still is on at times, right?
[44:42.610 --> 44:43.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: At times, I believe so.
[44:43.550 --> 44:45.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe get him some other time.
[44:45.950 --> 44:48.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was so amused to IDT.
[44:48.450 --> 44:51.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: You remember the earlier experience you had had with them?
[44:51.350 --> 44:53.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where they tried to defraud you?
[44:53.330 --> 44:53.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember this.
[44:54.390 --> 44:54.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: IDT?
[44:54.950 --> 44:56.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you didn't have it put in writing?
[44:56.770 --> 44:57.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no.
[44:58.190 --> 44:58.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: PSI.
[44:59.010 --> 44:59.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, PSI.
[44:59.790 --> 45:01.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: But aren't they sort of connected?
[45:01.370 --> 45:02.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
[45:02.250 --> 45:07.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, anyway, but what was so funny, this is one I really want to go to, but just for a second, you know, IDT.
[45:07.770 --> 45:10.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I heard the same five-cent-a-minute thing that you did, right?
[45:10.530 --> 45:10.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[45:10.910 --> 45:16.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I got the basic thing about having to call a local number and blah, blah, blah on the first call.
[45:16.610 --> 45:28.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: But what was so amusing was, instead of the smooth, carefully rehearsed IDT, how may we help you, please, or whatever, it was like, yeah, can I help you, dear guy?
[45:28.390 --> 45:33.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, I don't know quite how they run their business, but I always get the sense of speaking to somebody in a trailer or somebody.
[45:33.410 --> 45:34.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh, uh-huh, okay.
[45:34.670 --> 45:46.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: For one thing, when I finally signed my line over, they basically said that law required them to switch me to somebody that would verify this so that they could prove that they didn't, you know, intimidate me into doing this.
[45:46.830 --> 45:54.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: And basically what they did was they transferred the call over to this other guy, and he picked up the phone, and it sounded like he was making this up in the spur of the moment.
[45:54.650 --> 45:57.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: He said, hello, American Verification Corporation.
[45:57.710 --> 45:58.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if that's an issue.
[45:58.670 --> 45:59.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: American Verification?
[45:59.910 --> 46:01.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, where did they come up with this one?
[46:01.150 --> 46:02.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I looked them up.
[46:02.230 --> 46:03.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't exist anywhere.
[46:03.350 --> 46:04.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've never heard of this company.
[46:04.250 --> 46:06.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't know if that's necessarily fraudulent.
[46:06.510 --> 46:08.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: MCI has done that with me several times.
[46:09.250 --> 46:11.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's meant not to be fraudulent.
[46:11.310 --> 46:14.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: But have you heard of that company, American Verification Corporation?
[46:14.670 --> 46:16.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: They usually... I can't remember.
[46:16.590 --> 46:19.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: With MCI, they did tell you what the name of the company was.
[46:19.250 --> 46:20.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if that was the one.
[46:20.830 --> 46:21.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[46:21.030 --> 46:24.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's to assure the FCC that they're not slamming people.
[46:24.530 --> 46:24.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[46:25.010 --> 46:29.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, now, minor thing, 25 cents, 30 seconds free.
[46:29.970 --> 46:38.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: You may remember, I don't know if these are still in place, what 9X, when that was still their doing business as name, of course, the legal name is still New York Telephone Company.
[46:39.170 --> 46:39.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[46:40.690 --> 46:45.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: You remember they had phones at Grand Central and Penn Station and so forth?
[46:45.730 --> 46:46.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: The 30-second phones.
[46:46.810 --> 46:53.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: 25 cents anywhere in New York State, or at least anywhere in New York State that was where they were the local monopoly carrier.
[46:53.550 --> 46:54.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are those phones still there?
[46:54.670 --> 46:55.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[46:55.350 --> 46:55.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think they are.
[46:55.850 --> 46:56.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
[46:56.690 --> 46:57.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, final comment.
[46:58.370 --> 47:04.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: I would disagree with the advice you gave to the caller whose mother lives in Puerto Rico a few weeks ago.
[47:04.590 --> 47:05.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Remember that?
[47:05.450 --> 47:08.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: He couldn't figure out why he wasn't able to get through to her.
[47:08.830 --> 47:11.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think we determined that it was an anonymous call rejection.
[47:11.850 --> 47:12.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: She was right, right.
[47:12.470 --> 47:15.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: But she may have an important reason for using that.
[47:15.930 --> 47:18.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: In other words, you should have put the shoe on the other foot.
[47:18.070 --> 47:19.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I assumed he had asked her.
[47:19.530 --> 47:21.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: I assumed that they had talked somehow.
[47:21.330 --> 47:31.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: She may be subjected to, to take it to the farthest possible exaggeration, she may be subjecting herself to some kind of stalking or something if she stops using that.
[47:31.810 --> 47:34.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Instead, simply have him do star 8-2.
[47:35.110 --> 47:39.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, yeah, that does make sense because obviously he won't be trying to hide his identity from his own mother.
[47:39.190 --> 47:39.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[47:39.670 --> 47:40.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
[47:41.010 --> 47:41.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let you go.
[47:41.610 --> 47:42.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, thanks for calling.
[47:43.630 --> 47:44.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie, are you still there?
[47:45.950 --> 47:46.350]  Hello.
[47:46.530 --> 47:47.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Ah, there you are.
[47:47.150 --> 47:47.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't scare me like that.
[47:47.810 --> 47:53.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I did notice with that last caller, there was significantly more weirdness to the audio.
[47:53.630 --> 47:54.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, really?
[47:54.210 --> 47:55.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: He sounded fine on this end.
[47:56.550 --> 47:58.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, he sounded really weird to me.
[47:58.810 --> 48:00.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: But maybe he was just a really weird guy, I don't know.
[48:01.670 --> 48:03.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, let's move on to the next weird caller.
[48:03.930 --> 48:04.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:05.370 --> 48:06.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, hi, Manuel.
[48:06.330 --> 48:06.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[48:06.710 --> 48:07.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speak up, please.
[48:07.130 --> 48:07.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good.
[48:07.490 --> 48:07.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[48:08.370 --> 48:08.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's up?
[48:08.690 --> 48:13.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Quick thing about the Atlantic and the Long Island Telephone.
[48:13.790 --> 48:26.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently, what they do is, because I now have LIT, they give you the same service, but they give you 10% off your current Bell Atlantic bill.
[48:26.290 --> 48:28.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: So why would anybody not want to switch?
[48:28.850 --> 48:40.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, another thing that they do is, I had called them up about the three-way that Bell Atlantic had, you know, secretly thrown on everybody's phones without telling them.
[48:40.290 --> 48:43.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Except not in New York yet, not in New York City, but I think that's coming.
[48:43.270 --> 48:44.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they know nothing about it.
[48:45.310 --> 48:49.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: They swear up and down that there's no three-way on anybody's line.
[48:50.050 --> 48:52.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: They will look into it, but they don't know.
[48:52.970 --> 48:54.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is Long Island Telephone saying this?
[48:54.630 --> 48:56.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Long Island Telephone is saying this.
[48:56.250 --> 49:00.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it sounds as if Long Island Telephone doesn't really know what's going on with their own phone lines, and Bell Atlantic is still controlling them?
[49:01.130 --> 49:02.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what it sounds like to me.
[49:02.350 --> 49:11.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have this, like, sneaky feeling that, you know, Long Island Telephone is, like, somehow owned or operated by BA, and nobody just knows it yet.
[49:11.970 --> 49:14.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have you noticed any other differences in your phone service?
[49:14.830 --> 49:18.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, just that, you know, the annoying three-way stutter tone.
[49:18.390 --> 49:18.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's it.
[49:18.910 --> 49:20.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but you would have gotten that with Bell Atlantic anyway.
[49:20.630 --> 49:20.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[49:21.130 --> 49:25.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: But 10% off the bill, same rate, if you're getting a...
[49:25.030 --> 49:26.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, what happens if you dial zero?
[49:27.590 --> 49:29.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It says, welcome to Bell Atlantic.
[49:29.190 --> 49:31.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, then you're not on Long Island Telephone.
[49:31.130 --> 49:31.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what I...
[49:31.530 --> 49:32.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's my point, exactly.
[49:33.130 --> 49:34.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: That doesn't make any sense.
[49:34.250 --> 49:35.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you sure they switched you over?
[49:35.870 --> 49:36.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, I don't know.
[49:36.490 --> 49:38.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: The bill comes in, it says Long Island Telephone.
[49:38.630 --> 49:41.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: So basically what you're doing is you're simply signing up for a change in letterhead.
[49:42.150 --> 49:42.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty much.
[49:43.070 --> 49:44.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And getting 10% off.
[49:44.190 --> 49:44.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: 10% off.
[49:45.130 --> 49:47.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, hey, for a change in letterhead, 10% off.
[49:47.690 --> 49:48.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't beat that.
[49:48.470 --> 49:49.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess not.
[49:50.250 --> 50:02.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Secondly, and finally, if your switchboard is having some problems over there with the touchtones, I mean, why don't you guys just whistle the touchtones into the phone?
[50:02.670 --> 50:04.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, after all, if Kevin can do it...
[50:04.630 --> 50:07.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Kevin's the only person who can do it, and he's in prison right now.
[50:07.390 --> 50:07.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.
[50:07.790 --> 50:12.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, that's why they put him in prison, so that we can't be whistling touchtones whenever we want.
[50:12.390 --> 50:13.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that was it.
[50:13.890 --> 50:14.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[50:14.750 --> 50:14.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[50:15.050 --> 50:15.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you very much.
[50:15.710 --> 50:16.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye, Bernie.
[50:18.330 --> 50:19.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie, are you there?
[50:19.870 --> 50:21.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You haven't gotten rid of me yet.
[50:21.530 --> 50:21.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[50:22.430 --> 50:28.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, do you have local phone companies down there that are different from Bell Atlantic, similar to our Long Island telephone?
[50:28.350 --> 50:28.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
[50:29.310 --> 50:35.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, a whole lot of competitive local exchange carriers are getting into the act here in Philadelphia.
[50:36.110 --> 50:37.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: For residential service as well?
[50:39.210 --> 50:40.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm only aware of business...
[50:40.990 --> 50:43.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, yeah, there are just resellers, though.
[50:43.550 --> 50:46.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's one called U.S.
[50:46.890 --> 50:48.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Telecom, I believe is their name.
[50:49.150 --> 50:50.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or American Telecom or something.
[50:50.850 --> 50:59.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they seem to be marketing their TV ads, aiming their TV ads towards the credit challenge, or people who've had their Bell Atlantic local phone service shut off for nine payment.
[50:59.930 --> 51:04.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they'll say on this TV ad, it doesn't matter if your phone's been shut off for nine payment.
[51:04.810 --> 51:06.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll take you anyway, kind of thing.
[51:06.550 --> 51:10.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they probably charge twice as much just to people who don't pay their regular phone bills.
[51:10.950 --> 51:12.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think they'll stay in business very long, though.
[51:13.470 --> 51:19.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting, though, because this particular phone company, there doesn't seem to be any difference at all between Bell Atlantic and Long Island Telephone.
[51:19.950 --> 51:21.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: You dial zero, you get Bell Atlantic Operator.
[51:21.910 --> 51:23.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'd think that that would change, at least.
[51:24.510 --> 51:26.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, I don't know, I'll check into that a little bit more.
[51:27.190 --> 51:27.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[51:27.730 --> 51:29.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's take one more phone call, or maybe two more.
[51:29.730 --> 51:30.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[51:31.970 --> 51:32.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Speak up, please.
[51:33.950 --> 51:34.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, guess what?
[51:34.570 --> 51:37.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to take three more phone calls, because someone fell asleep on the line.
[51:38.530 --> 51:39.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[51:39.550 --> 51:40.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, good, thank you.
[51:40.450 --> 51:40.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Bernie.
[51:41.210 --> 51:41.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's T-Dub.
[51:41.990 --> 51:42.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi.
[51:42.430 --> 51:42.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: How are you doing?
[51:43.070 --> 51:43.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who is it?
[51:43.630 --> 51:44.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: T-Dub in New York.
[51:45.530 --> 51:45.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi.
[51:46.030 --> 51:46.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's okay.
[51:46.790 --> 51:49.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Many people made calls, so I'm wondering.
[51:49.830 --> 51:50.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I remember you now.
[51:50.770 --> 51:55.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, the year 2000 computer problem in the government, I'm reading the U.S.
[51:55.150 --> 51:57.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: government hard copy budget, not the Internet.
[51:58.010 --> 52:10.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a description that says that the agencies of the government have identified 8,589 mission-critical systems within the federal government, 26% of which are compliant.
[52:12.010 --> 52:13.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: What about the other 74%?
[52:13.910 --> 52:18.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: At a cost of $3.9 billion, they are addressing the problem.
[52:19.210 --> 52:21.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe the computer they use to do that is wrong.
[52:21.930 --> 52:22.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope so.
[52:22.590 --> 52:23.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's possible, too.
[52:23.290 --> 52:31.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Also, there's a fee of $0.93 that you should see on all of your Bell Atlantic phone bills as a surcharge.
[52:31.890 --> 52:33.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that is...
[52:34.210 --> 52:36.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll be $0.93 added to your tax.
[52:36.930 --> 52:37.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Your tax will go up $0.93.
[52:38.550 --> 52:51.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: You should consider not paying that, because Bell Atlantic got a grant from the government to go in with whatever, I think Microsoft, to provide computers for the education system.
[52:52.090 --> 53:00.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they're supposed to be getting this out of their tax incentives and special tax deductions that the corporation gets.
[53:00.790 --> 53:04.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: But they've added it to the phone bills to pay for the computers.
[53:04.570 --> 53:06.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you see, I don't understand how they get away with things like this.
[53:06.650 --> 53:12.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: They basically, they have to do things because they make so much money, so the government says, because you made all this money, you've got to buy these things.
[53:13.010 --> 53:15.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then the company says, okay, we're going to buy these things.
[53:15.250 --> 53:17.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then they bill the consumers for it, so they're not doing anything.
[53:17.870 --> 53:21.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, they threatened to move out of New York, so the government says, well, yeah, we'll save you taxes.
[53:21.630 --> 53:22.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll give you this tax write-off.
[53:23.010 --> 53:24.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so we end up with it on our phone bill.
[53:25.330 --> 53:26.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have the article on that.
[53:26.610 --> 53:27.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll try and find it.
[53:27.590 --> 53:28.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, thanks for the info.
[53:28.590 --> 53:28.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, bye.
[53:30.830 --> 53:31.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie, you're still there.
[53:32.630 --> 53:33.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm still here.
[53:33.370 --> 53:33.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, great.
[53:34.350 --> 53:36.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: So this year 2000 thing, I don't know.
[53:36.070 --> 53:40.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you see, it's still October 1998, all right?
[53:41.090 --> 53:45.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: If 26% are compliant, I imagine they're working on the rest of them, right?
[53:45.890 --> 53:46.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't that make sense?
[53:46.950 --> 53:52.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: They might get up to 40 or even 50, but they might actually get almost half of them ready.
[53:53.450 --> 53:58.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not going to be flying on any airplanes December 31st.
[53:58.110 --> 54:00.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's one thing I won't do.
[54:00.330 --> 54:04.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I won't fly on an airplane during that period of time because I don't know exactly what's going to happen there.
[54:04.050 --> 54:05.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: It would be kind of fun, you know, to see things on the ground.
[54:06.070 --> 54:09.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not messing up, but up in the air, you sort of want everything to be working just right.
[54:10.730 --> 54:15.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, can't they just rewrite operating systems or redesign new systems?
[54:15.670 --> 54:16.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have enough time.
[54:16.690 --> 54:21.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: We've known that the year is going to change now for a long, long time, you know?
[54:22.770 --> 54:24.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: People are just very short-sighted.
[54:24.350 --> 54:25.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: They didn't take a head.
[54:25.970 --> 54:29.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I wonder if these engineers back in the 60s wanted to make years represented by one digit.
[54:30.170 --> 54:32.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's like, didn't they have any faith?
[54:32.990 --> 54:42.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know Reagan was, you know, elected, and everybody thought we weren't going to survive that, but there was a chance that we were going to make it through into the 21st century, and now it looks like our worst fears are being realized.
[54:43.510 --> 54:43.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[54:43.890 --> 54:45.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm kind of excited and looking forward to this, actually.
[54:46.190 --> 54:47.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're out of time, Bernie.
[54:48.410 --> 54:48.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Already?
[54:49.010 --> 54:57.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but we're not out of time yet as far as the century goes, so we'll have plenty of time to, you know, to theorize on this and to see just what it is that gets all messed up.
[54:57.030 --> 55:12.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: But consider this, the first show in a series, Countdown to Doom, the year 2000 bug, and you'll hear it here on Off the Hook as we watch things fall apart slowly and see civilization unravel before our eyes.
[55:13.390 --> 55:14.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, what are you going to do?
[55:14.970 --> 55:16.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, Bernie, it's good hearing from you.
[55:16.710 --> 55:22.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's good hearing you on this almost great phone line, but for the price, it's not bad.
[55:22.470 --> 55:23.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: It wasn't bad.
[55:23.310 --> 55:24.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: It wasn't bad at all.
[55:25.290 --> 55:30.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just hope more people do things like this on the Internet that, you know, doesn't cost that much at all.
[55:30.470 --> 55:32.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe has video connections as well.
[55:33.090 --> 55:35.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: At the same time, though, not tying things up for the rest of the people.
[55:36.930 --> 55:37.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: More bandwidth, man.
[55:37.870 --> 55:38.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what it's all about.
[55:39.070 --> 55:43.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, Bernie, stay free and have a lot of fun down there.
[55:43.250 --> 55:44.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk to you again real soon.
[55:45.710 --> 55:46.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for having me on the air.
[55:46.950 --> 55:47.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, take care.
[55:48.050 --> 55:49.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's Emmanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook.
[55:49.970 --> 55:51.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be back again next week with another exciting edition.
[55:52.110 --> 55:53.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Until then, have a good night.
[56:00.020 --> 56:21.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It couldn't get much worse But if it could, it would Bombily Bump But the best expect the worst I hope that's understood Bombily Bump!
[56:21.740 --> 56:22.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: mad
[57:07.580 --> 57:08.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: hotel What happened?
[57:08.980 --> 57:13.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: The caso Valve Can not What happened?
[57:13.500 --> 57:14.260]  Kill Are