Calaveras y Diablito, calaveras y diablito, calaveras y diablito, calaveras y diablito,
Irma de mi corazón.
Calaveras y Diablito, calaveras y diablito, calaveras y diablito, Irma de mi corazón.
No quiero morir sin antes haber amado, pero tampoco quiero morir de amor.
This is Pacifica Network News, special election night coverage, I'm Larry Bensky.
What I predict for tomorrow night is that we will have more House seats, more Senate seats, more governorships, and more legislative seats to add to the enormous number that we have already gained under the Clinton administration.
That was of course House Speaker Newt Gingrich. The response from Bill Clinton talking about voter turnout, a lot of people predicted it would be low today, but in fact it doesn't seem like it's turning out that way.
I don't know, I think a lot of people know this is a big election, I think they know what their priorities are, and you mentioned them, and I think they know what our priorities are, and I think they know that the Democrats are focused on the people out there in the country, and not on some sort of partisan power games here in Washington.
Bill Clinton with a special election eve yesterday appearance on an African American nationwide talk show.
The results are in from several states already, and we'll give them to you right off the bat.
They are not conclusive yet, but there are some interesting developments.
The polls closed about an hour ago in South Carolina, and the incumbent Republican governor has been upset by a Democratic challenger.
That is Jim Hodges in South Carolina, the newly elected Democratic governor, defeats sitting Republican governor David Beasley.
As for the Senate race in South Carolina, Ernest Fritz Hollings, the Democrat who's been in there for many terms, who was thought to be threatened in this race, has now been declared the winner of that race.
Hollings will return to the Senate. That's a seat that the Republicans hoped that they would pick up.
Looking at the House of Representatives in Indiana, a state where the polls closed, as I said, an hour ago,
the seat of a retiring chair of the Intelligence Committee and ranking member now of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Lee Hamilton,
looks like it's going to be retained by the Democrats in something of a surprise, with 28 percent of the results in.
Barron Hill, a Democrat, leads Gene Leisig, a Republican, with 57 to 43 percent.
Meanwhile, the Republicans had hoped to pick up Indiana's 10th district, Julia Carson, a Democrat, serving her first term.
She's a former mayor of Indianapolis and an African-American and a leader in the Black Caucus in Congress,
but she is now ahead of her Republican challenger, 57 to 41 percent, with 71 percent of the precincts reporting it looks like the Republicans are not going to win there.
On the other hand, in Indiana's 8th district, the Democrats had hoped that they could upset incumbent Congressman John Hostetler,
a member of the Newt Gingrich-Wright faction in Congress, with Gail Reekin, a Democrat,
but with only 9 percent of the precincts reporting, Hostetler has a very—not very comfortable, I should say, 53 to 46 percent lead.
The other result we have so far is from Kentucky in the 4th district, the district where Scotty Basler, who's running for Senate, stepped down.
The Democrats look like they're going to retain that seat with 65 percent of the vote reporting.
Ken Lucas, the Democrat in Kentucky, leads Jax Williams, the Republican, who has 47 percent to Lucas's 53 percent.
Joining us at this time on Pacifica Network News on our special election night recovery—coverage is—I almost said recovery.
We'll need a recovery after this—is Jim Hightower, former Texas Agricultural Commissioner, wit and pundit.
Jim Hightower joining us from Texas. Welcome to Pacifica Radio once again, Jim Hightower.
Glad to be back with you, Larry.
Jim Hightower, your reaction so far to the fact that the Democrats have held some seats that the Republicans were looking for in Kentucky and Indiana?
Well, again, what you're really seeing, though, is the power of incumbency there.
The real question to me is not whether Democrats or Republicans win, but whether it represents any kind of a change with those victories.
As we are really seeing the—you mentioned turnout earlier being higher than anticipated.
It will still be at a remarkable low level, certainly beneath half of the voters in the country will be turning out.
But we had a massive turnout of dollars.
Oh, we sure did.
More than a billion dollars spent in just the congressional races alone.
And this has become the dominating force in our politics today.
What is your reaction to the fact that Democrats have retained the Senate seat in South Carolina and taken over the governorship, Jim Hightower?
Well, there's some level of common sense.
I mean, Fred Hollings has, on issues like NAFTA and other elements of the globalony policies pursued, by the way, by Clinton as well as by Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott,
he has been very independent on that, has been against those policies.
So he has run the kind of campaign that is much more in tune with the ordinary workday person.
Jim Hightower, Texas Agricultural Commissioner.
This is Pacifica Radio's national news coverage.
Jim Hightower, if Texas, as they say tonight, goes very heavily for, and I don't think there's any question about it, for your Governor Bush for re-election,
and he's going to be launched, of course, immediately by the media and already has towards the White House,
what does it mean for Texas politics, for progressives in Texas who are trying to maintain some kind of foothold there?
Is he going to drag all the Democrats down with him?
I don't think so.
I think that Jim Maddox, for example, will win.
That's going to be a close race, too.
But Jim Maddox, former Attorney General, was elected with me and Ann Richards and Gary Morrow back in 1982,
has come back to run for Attorney General again, has run a real populist people's campaign,
and he's, in fact, the only guy running as a Democrat in Texas.
And the result is he seems to be the Democrat that's winning.
What about the House of Representatives in Texas?
The Republicans are looking to pick up about five seats.
I've got four of them charted here in various districts.
Some of these are Democrats in name only.
They vote like Republicans most of the time, like Charlie Stenholm.
Others, like Martin Frost, are prominent national Democrats.
Indeed, he's head of the Democratic National Congressional Campaign Committee.
Do you think the Republicans can actually pick up seats in Texas this time?
They could.
I don't know.
I haven't heard on the Stenholm race, but that one is a possibility.
I mean, Stenholm, as you indicated, essentially is a Republican,
and Harry Truman once said if you give the people a choice between a Republican and a Republican,
they will choose the Republican every time.
And that could ultimately happen to Charlie.
It's very interesting that he now comes running back to the Democrats saying,
oh, save me, save me, but he's never there when the vote comes down.
I think the most important races, Larry,
and this is going to be several days down the road before we're able to tally these,
but these are the state legislative races across the country
because there's a huge turnover in state legislatures due to term limits,
and those are going to be the people who do the reapportioning just two years down the road.
As a result of the 98 and the 2000 elections,
that class of state legislators will reapportion the congressional seats in this country.
Those are extraordinarily important races,
and that's where a lot of activity by the new party, by the Greens, by the Reform Party,
some of the third party efforts, as well as progressive Democrats, have been focused.
And that's where I think we're going to see real change down the road coming forward as a possibility at least.
Jim Hightower, the possibility that the Christian right may have peaked in 1996,
a lot of people are talking about this,
but you in Texas have seen an assault on your state education board, among other things.
They seem this time not to be as active above the radar screen,
but of course you've got those 50 million voter guides that they're handing out in churches.
What's your take on that?
In an election like this where the turnout is predicted to be low,
although it's not going to be as low as they said,
the influence of the Christian right, has it peaked or is it still a major factor in places like Texas?
Still definitely a major factor because they are organized, they are targeted, they do get their vote out.
By the way, that's not necessarily a bad thing, a bad model for the rest of us to consider.
That kind of grassroots organizing is something that our side might begin to pay some attention to
instead of just dumping all of our money into television ads and into political consultants.
Nonetheless, the right wing Christian right remains a very strong force,
and not just in Texas and not just in the rural areas,
but in some supposedly sophisticated centers as well.
Jim Hightower, thank you very much for joining us on Pacifica Radio's special election night coverage.
To repeat what we opened with, the Democrats have held three seats in Indiana and Kentucky
that the Republicans have hoped to take tonight.
The Republicans have held one of their seats in Indiana that the Democrats had hoped to take,
and they held another one in Kentucky as well.
We're just getting results that Ann Northrup, a Republican, former mayor of Louisville,
has retained her seat in Kentucky's 3rd district.
A Democrat, on the other hand, has upset Fobb James, one of the poster boys of the Christian right,
for governor of Alabama.
That would be Don Siegelman.
Don Siegelman defeats Fobb James, a hard-right Christian conservative, as the governor of Alabama.
Many people said that James was bad for business, and the electorate in Alabama seems to have agreed.
On our next report, at the top of the next hour,
we'll be taking a look at the New York and North Carolina Senate races, plus many more House races.
We've identified 46 House races on Pacifica Radio here tonight that are crucial,
and we'll be following those throughout the evening.
So stay with us.
I'm Larry Bensky.
This is Pacifica Radio's Election Night Special Report.
And you'll hear the next update at exactly 9 o'clock here on WBAI in New York.
Time now for Off the Hook.
Off the Hook
Okay, we're running late, so we don't have time for that.
So let's just get right into the show.
It's election night here in New York.
Actually, it's election night everywhere.
Well, everywhere in the country, anyway.
And we have some follow-ups and blunders to report already.
Yes, you might have heard about this one.
ABC News.
They really fouled things up this year.
It may not have been Dewey defeats Truman,
but ABCNews.com's posting of test election results on its website was an embarrassing mistake on the eve of Election Day.
It wasn't our finest hours, spokeswoman Michelle Bergman said Tuesday.
The outcomes of Senate and gubernatorial races and ballot issues for all 50 states were posted Monday afternoon.
For example, it had Democratic Lieutenant Governor Gray Davis beating Republican challenger Dan Lundgren 49% to 46% in the California governor's race.
And in New York, it had incumbent Republican Alphonse D'Amato beating Representative Charles Schumer in the Senate race 50% to 42%.
Right away, you know that's fiction.
So, I don't know.
A very interesting bit of news that they generated themselves there.
Bergman said ABCNews.com was testing its pages for election coverage and some pages inadvertently got published live.
She said the numbers did not reflect what ABC expected to happen.
That's something I guess they concocted out of thin air.
There was no bias intended by what we posted and the predictions do not reflect the reporting or news judgments of ABC News.
Just our overall computer incompetence.
She estimated that the results were available for a couple of hours on Monday.
If anybody has those, if anybody saved those, please send them on over.
I'd certainly like to see them.
Monday's bubble was a far cry from America's most famous election foul-up.
In 1948, the Chicago Tribune erroneously announced that Republican Thomas E. Dewey had defeated President Truman.
Well, election day is not over yet, so we could still surpass that.
And we'll be following various election results throughout the night here on WBAI.
Here's something interesting.
A pre-election day bit of news.
October 27th, the New York State Police, acting under the orders of Attorney General Dennis Bacow, who is up for re-election,
seized computer equipment that BuffNet used to provide its subscribers with access to internet news groups.
It's like seizing envelopes to combat mail fraud, said BuffNet attorney Stephen Fox.
Or taking the cable for what's on TV.
According to a press release, BuffNet remains fully operational and continues to provide service to its 7,400 customers.
BuffNet is not charged with any crimes. BuffNet has not broken any laws.
None of the individuals who were arrested were BuffNet members or employees.
None of the allegedly illegal material was posted from BuffNet accounts.
BuffNet receives its news group feeds from Sprint's network, from Prodigy, and from several educational institutions.
These feeds are unmoderated, the same as radio and TV signals through the air.
BuffNet supports the Attorney General's goal of preventing harm to minors.
In fact, before these events, BuffNet's attorneys spoke with attorneys in Bacow's office and the Department of Justice in Washington.
BuffNet learned it has been doing more than what the law requires and everything the DOJ advises.
BuffNet's staff and attorney even appeared with the Attorney General on Adelphia Cable's show on regulating the internet.
Ironically, Mr. Bacow was impressed with the job BuffNet was doing to fight child porn and fraud.
We haven't changed since, reported BuffNet President Gary Bechetti.
It is important to know that BuffNet did not create the content under investigation by the Attorney General.
BuffNet also cannot control the postings to the news groups, nor any ISP bound by any state or federal law can do that.
The financial resources needed to scan and evaluate the legal consequences of 37,000 news groups,
each with hundreds of postings a few times a day, are not available to BuffNet nor any ISP.
I believe that if BuffNet is guilty, then so is Sprint, Prodigy, and a few major educational institutions that provide us the news feeds, said BuffNet President Gary Bechetti.
Why didn't Mr. Bacow take all the phone wire in New York?
These images went through the wire, which has as much control as BuffNet does.
When someone sends illegal material through the U.S. Mail, they don't arrest the people in the post office.
It seems like the Attorney General arrested the people who posted they didn't have BuffNet accounts.
Federal law protects ISPs. Isn't it intriguing that Bacow chose only two ISPs, both in upstate New York?
Is it coincidence that Bacow won his last election relying on upstate New York votes?
Why weren't the other 1,000 plus ISPs in New York State a target of his investigation?
Why weren't BuffNet's peers that provided the news groups under investigation?
It's another clear example of selective prosecution.
It'll be interesting to see if this particular move helps re-elect Attorney General Dennis Bacow.
We'll be following that race as well.
Throughout the night.
And we have a couple of guests with us tonight.
A few guests, actually.
We have Bill SF, who's here from Amsterdam.
Bill, how are you doing?
I'm doing just fine.
And we have on the phone, from North Carolina, Carrie, the webmaster of KevinMitnick.com.
Carrie, are you there?
Yep.
You're going to have to speak up just a little bit.
Hi, I'm here.
That's it. That's great.
Basically, we'll start with you, Bill.
You've been traveling around the country the last couple of weeks for not the first time.
This is about the fourth time I've been in the United States in about the last nine years or so.
And, well, this is so far so good.
It's been a very good holiday.
We've had a great time.
I have my friend Jost here, who hopefully will say hello and get the nerve at some point.
And we've found a few things shocking about being here.
What's shocking?
We want to know what's shocking.
The war on drugs and the basic politics in the U.S. and elections and all that.
The war on drugs continues on.
I've been learning more about this over the past few weeks.
Yes, it continues on.
And marijuana sells for $50 for two grams, which is just, I mean, I just went, no way.
We can't give prices out over the air.
Oh, I'm sorry.
But, yeah, I mean, the war on drugs is really out of control here.
Building prisons left and right.
I was just in Philadelphia this past weekend, and it's unbelievable.
They're building a maximum security federal penitentiary right smack in the middle of town.
And, you know, they have these signs on the construction site saying that it's illegal to take pictures of the building.
It's illegal to take pictures.
I find that amazing.
Of course, we took lots of pictures.
And, you know, we'll continue.
And I'll say right on the air, if that's the law, I'm going to break that law left and right.
We take pictures of prisons all over the damn place because these are buildings, you know,
and you stick them in the middle of a city and tell people, oh, you can't take a picture of that.
It's just out of control.
It's also civil disobedience, isn't it?
Well, I guess it's, yeah, it turns into that.
But why build more prisons?
I mean, if you eliminate the war on drugs, you can make a moratorium on the building of prisons.
Although I guess a big business has an interest in building prisons because it scars a lot of people.
No, it's an industry.
And by putting minor drug offenders, by putting computer hackers, by putting every person you can think of in prison,
you make money for these towns, these businesses that build prisons.
It really is a booming industry.
And they estimate that almost up to 2 million prisoners right now.
So I've heard about almost 1 percent.
But I've also heard what is even more scary is that up to 5 percent of the people in the United States are under direct control of the government,
which means that this is like how Nazi Germany was before the war.
Well, you see, if you're under direct control, at least you know that you're under direct control.
You get those little notices.
Yeah, but if you mess up, you go to prison.
But how about all the rest of us that think we're free but actually are just doing exactly what they want us to and supporting these things
and saying, yeah, you know, there's crime on the streets.
We have to build more prisons to put the people away.
That's foul logic.
I mean, it doesn't make any sense.
I mean, look at Amsterdam, where Jost and I come from.
It's very free.
I mean, the crime rate is almost nothing.
I mean, one-twentieth the prison population.
I mean, it's night and day.
Well, you know, I attribute that to the fact that you guys don't have guns all over the place.
We don't have guns all over the place.
And you shouldn't have guns all over the place in the U.S. either.
I know that's going to generate some calls.
Well, if you look at the way things are, if you look at all the attention that's being drawn towards things,
the authorities are so concerned about speech, about what is being said on the net,
about what people are posting on copyright issues, what you have access to, what you listen to, what you read.
The fact that little kids have access to things that can blow their heads off, that's secondary.
That doesn't matter so much.
But speech, that's a danger.
That's what you've got to lock people up for, for things like that.
You mean this is a situation where the system administrator is responsible in America for what's on his system?
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I run two fairly big servers in Amsterdam, and it's none of my responsibility what's on it.
If somebody complained there was kiddie porn, I would immediately remove it.
But otherwise, I don't have to go checking through all the pages and see what people have up there.
Right, because that turns you into Big Brother.
I'm not Big Brother, no.
You have to look for crimes before they're even committed.
Right, right.
There is an option to do fascist logging on UNIX systems.
And they say don't use it, but maybe in some countries it's required.
Well, it's like you say, an option.
It's not something that any clear-thinking person, I think, should be running.
Never.
If you're running a system just to keep an eye on everybody, why don't you just be a prison guard?
It would be a lot easier and more direct.
So it was really scary because we were talking to Bernie S. down there, and many of you are familiar with his case back a couple of years ago.
In fact, if you're interested, we just put the 1996 off-the-hook radio shows on the – actually, was it 96?
No, I'm sorry, 95 just went up online on the website.
And that is the year that Bernie S. really started to go through his personal hell, being targeted by the U.S. Secret Service, put in prison for nearly two years.
And you can hear him calling into this radio show, talking to us from prison.
You can hear the whole thing unfolding, and that just went up on the net.
You can go to www.2600.com and listen to those programs.
So that brings it back right there.
But talking to him about it, we sort of went over all this stuff again, and it was just – it really hit me hard just hearing all of this again,
hearing the things that the government will do to you if they want to target you, if they think that you're somebody that's a danger.
It doesn't matter if you are a danger or not.
If they think you are, they'll convince judges, they'll lie in court, they'll do whatever they need to do.
They'll fabricate evidence if they have to.
That is not an exception.
And a lot of us go through life thinking it is an exception, but when you see it happen to somebody close to you,
when you see it happen several times to different people, you realize they're not playing by the rules.
They make their own rules.
Well, they are the law, therefore they make the rules.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
And apparently they have the gold, and the U.S. government thinks they have the gold now.
Well, I should be reasonably careful because I don't believe there's freedom of speech anymore in America,
and I should not really speak my mind here.
It's the worst kind because we believe there's freedom of speech,
but when you look around, all the radio stations are owned by the same people, all the TV stations, all the newspapers.
Obviously BAI is an exception, and it's a really rare exception,
and one that I don't doubt is in very great danger because a lot of people see this place as a threat because we speak our minds.
And we're not owned by the same people that all the other radio stations are owned by,
and we don't have commercials and that kind of thing.
It's a rare exception.
You have to ask yourself, why is it a rare exception?
Why is it such a threat?
Why is it allowed?
Yeah, why should speech be considered such a threat?
This is a good point to bring in Carrie from North Carolina.
Carrie runs the Kevin Mitnick website.
First off, Carrie, are there any updates on Kevin's case?
Since the last show?
Yeah, we haven't been on for three weeks, so I guess some things have happened.
Has he had any hearings?
The bail denial, the second bail denial, that went through since then, didn't it?
It's a bail hearing denial.
Bail hearing, yeah.
Now keep in mind that Kevin has yet to have a bail hearing.
He's never had a bail hearing.
Timothy McVeigh had a bail hearing.
The World Trade Center bombers had a bail hearing.
But Kevin Mitnick, no bail hearing.
They're not even going to say you can't have bail.
They're just not even going to give him a hearing.
I mean, it boggles the imagination.
So I guess that's the latest, that he has not had any bail hearing.
He's still there, and he still hasn't been allowed to look at the evidence.
There's a new thing that you put up on the website saying how many pages he would have to look through.
Can you explain that to us?
Yes.
There was 9.75 gigabytes of computerized evidence.
And we just basically broke that down into pages.
And it updates every day and tells you approximately how many pages he'd have to go through every day
if he was to review all of that by the trial date.
And how many pages would he have to go through each day between now and the trial date
if he wanted to look at his evidence?
It's about 33,000-something.
So he'd have to read 33,000 pages each day between now and the trial date, January 19th.
Yes.
It's unbelievable.
Now people ask, there are a lot of questions,
and I'm glad we have the opportunity to dispel some of this
because people always ask questions about Kevin being in prison,
and they say things like, well, didn't he commit this crime?
Didn't he give up his right to a speedy trial?
First of all, Kevin did give up his right to a speedy trial,
but that was back when he didn't have the, you know, think in his wildest imagination
he'd be held in prison for four years without a trial.
And also he thought he'd have access to the evidence so that he could prepare a defense.
He might as well have gone on trial the first day after he was arrested
because he's seen as much evidence now as he's seen then.
Now when you give up your right to a free trial,
it's so that you can have time to prepare an adequate defense.
He hasn't been given that opportunity.
So now, what are some of the other points that people raise, saying that...
The accusations?
Yeah, the accusations against Kevin that I believe somebody posted a story recently
that listed all kinds of things that he never did.
That was from 1988, and there's been other articles.
There was the one that John Markoff did in 1994.
They've perpetrated all kinds of myths about him ever since 1988,
that he's stolen credit card numbers, that he's changed credit records,
that he broke in a NORAD, all these things that they just presented as fact.
They never presented any kind of justification, and in fact a lot of them are false.
I think almost all of them are false.
I think all of them are false, actually, the ones that I've seen.
The NORAD never happened.
As far as changing credit reports, there's no evidence to suggest that anyplace.
Stealing credit card numbers, he had a file on one of his computer accounts
that was spread all over the Internet, and again, he never used any of those.
So all of these things, if you look at them piece by piece,
they can all be completely dispelled, and so that leaves you with the case.
What is this case actually about?
It's really a case of the government saying,
this guy's a threat because he knows too much.
He has access to computers.
He knows how to read certain files.
Again, we're talking about something that happened years ago
involving analog cellular software that really is worthless now.
I think somebody sent us some information about this.
All the companies that supposedly were victimized
posted record profits in that period of time.
So what kind of damage did the guy really do?
Not only that, but they're supposed to make statements
about that kind of financial loss in their statements to their stockholders,
and none of them did.
So right away, where is the evidence?
What exactly are they saying this guy did?
It seems to me they're simply holding him because they can
and because they want to send a message to the rest of us.
I don't know.
Where do you think this is going to go?
I think Markoff will probably write another book.
You think he'll be there covering the trial?
I'll bet he'll show up.
Probably. He's made an incredible amount of money off of all this.
And he's not the only one.
We have film companies that are making money.
We have all kinds of other reporters that are going to be covering this story.
It's big news.
But what everybody seems to forget
is that there's somebody in prison suffering, and it's wrong.
It has to stop.
One thing I learned over this past weekend
is that we talk about Kevin a lot.
Sometimes people think we talk about Kevin too much,
but the point is we know about Kevin's case.
Kevin is somebody that we're familiar with,
and we can speak to this issue.
But there are so many other people out there,
not just in the computer field,
but all kinds of people everywhere
that are being victimized in so many ways.
You'd need a network of radio stations
to be able to give adequate time to all these people
and tell them what's really happening.
It's sad. It's shocking.
But what's even scarier is the fact
that people just go about their daily lives
and not be tuned into this at all, not even care.
That's the really scary part.
Well, by helping Kevin, we're helping ourselves too,
because this is going to be a really precedent-setting case.
Yeah, absolutely.
It already is a precedent-setting case
in that every hacker that gets raided in the next 10 years
is going to have the name Kevin Mitnick thrown in his face.
They're going to say, you know, we did this to Kevin.
We put him in jail for four years without even having a trial.
We can do it to you.
And they probably can.
So that's the message that they want to send.
That's the message I think they're going to be sending
rather successfully.
There was an article in last Saturday's New York Times
front-page article, I believe,
all about something called hacktivism.
That's right, hacktivism.
The headline was,
Hacktivists of All Persuasions Take Their Struggle to the Web.
And I'll read you a couple of paragraphs,
because that's really all I want to read.
Until they declared net war against the Mexican government,
Ricardo Dominguez and Stefan Ray
earned their activist credentials the old-fashioned way,
attending rallies in support of the Zapatista rebels,
handing out pamphlets, shouting political slogans.
Now the two New Yorkers organize virtual sit-ins
and recruit computer programmers
to attack the worldwide websites of any person or company
they deem responsible for oppression.
Then, you rally and cry,
the revolution will be digitized.
That's right.
Hackers, who are reliably anti-authoritarian,
tend to limit their critique of the military-industrial complex
to its imperfect computer security apparatus.
Enamored of their image as the cowboys of the electronic frontier,
most at least pay lip service to the hacker mantra,
information wants to be free.
Something I don't think we ever made up,
but I'll get into that some other time.
Whatever capacity they might have to disrupt the social order
has so far been largely restricted to pointless vandalism
and pinching the occasional credit card number.
Unbelievable.
They say this without having any examples
or evidence of any sort.
There is so much else that they could be talking about here,
but they choose to limit it.
October 27th, the day after China's Human Rights Agency
announced its new website,
the official view of that nation's human rights record
was replaced with an electronic trespasser's manifesto.
China's people have no rights at all, never mind human rights.
How can the United States trade millions and millions of dollars with them
and give them most favored trade status when they know what is happening?
Earlier in October, computer intruders scrawled Save Kashmir
over the opening screen of a website
the Indian government set up last summer
to provide information about the region
whose ownership is disputed by Pakistan and several separatist groups.
The hacked site included photographs of Kashmiris
allegedly killed by Indian forces
overlaid with the words massacre and extrajudicial execution.
In June, after the Indian government conducted nuclear tests,
college students in Britain and the Netherlands
claimed credit for placing the image of a mushroom cloud
on the website of India's major nuclear weapons research center.
And in September, Portuguese hackers modified the sites
of 40 Indonesian servers to display the slogan
Free East Timor in large black letters
and added hypertext links to websites
describing Indonesian human rights abuses
in the former Portuguese colony.
Hacktivism is a way to be heard by millions,
say one of the Mexican hackers.
We want to speak out about what we and many people disagree with
in this treasonous and corrupt government.
If we protest both online and offline,
we'll have better chances to see a change.
Now, they go on at great length,
but the thing I found most interesting about this article
was what they didn't say, what they didn't talk about.
The New York Times, the very newspaper that is publishing this
was hacked itself by, I mean,
you may not consider them political activists,
but maybe they are political.
They're activists of some sort.
They got a message out.
They had something to say.
I just can't believe the Times would choose
not to point attention to itself
when the very thing they're reporting in this story
happened to them.
And, of course, keep in mind that a major part of that story
had to do with Kevin Mitnick,
who the New York Times has also been kind of found guilty of,
I guess, using.
They used Kevin Mitnick for profit.
They used him to sell books, to make news stories,
without checking the facts, without being responsible.
And, of course, by mentioning the fact that they were hacked,
they would have had to have mentioned Kevin Mitnick,
and then they would have had to have gotten into
how the New York Times was implicated in this whole thing.
And I guess they just felt,
man, we're not going to do that.
We're not going to make that the news.
We'll just eliminate it altogether.
So this has been passed around the net.
Bill, have you seen this story at all?
No, I know nothing about this story.
This is all news to me.
In fact, most of the stuff you have been putting out
is actually news to me,
because I'm kind of in a different world,
more into what's going on technically.
And this political stuff is kind of interesting.
I mean, of course I know Kevin Mitnick was in prison.
I mean, I actually told you in Holland
that I thought, didn't he get out some time ago?
I mean...
People actually think that, huh?
They think he got out.
A lot of people think he's gotten out,
because it's just not believable that somebody would be
in prison that long without a trial.
And that's the thing.
When we were traveling across country,
interviewing people about this,
people would say, no, that's not possible.
That can't be happening.
You're wrong.
There's no way this could be happening in this country.
And how do you tell people, you know, you're wrong.
It is happening.
Here's the proof.
We talk to him every day.
He's in prison.
He's been there for four years.
Well, we went into a locksmith shop,
and we found out that in New York State
that it's illegal to sell lockpick tools
to anybody but a licensed locksmith.
And we said, well, in Europe, it's a hobby.
Hackers like to play around with locks.
And the guy kind of goes,
well, you know what happens to hackers.
I'm sure he was thinking about Kevin in that one.
Yeah, that's true.
And a lot of people have heard about Kevin.
The news is being spread all over the place.
Carrie, perhaps you could tell us something about that.
Where is the word being spread?
Oh, we've got hits on the site from all over.
Is that increased in recent weeks?
It has.
It went up about 10,000 requests this week, I think.
There were some links from another hacked website
that might have contributed to that.
Yeah, it seems every time a website gets hacked,
they put in a link to the Kevin Mitnick site,
which is kind of a mixed blessing
because people think that Kevin is behind this somehow.
Actually, Kevin really doesn't like this kind of thing
to be happening, but I'm sort of split on it.
I understand his point of view totally,
but at the same time, the media has failed us so badly,
the mass media, that is,
that how else do you get the message out?
You have to rally in the streets,
and these are our streets.
So that's basically what people are going to do.
You can only push so far before people get fed up
and don't start playing by the rules anymore.
Are there any other points that you wanted to bring up, Carrie,
as far as the website
or things that people have been asking or contributing?
I've been surprised how many e-mails from the site
that I've gotten people still asking,
didn't he steal credit card numbers and stuff like that,
just propagating these myths.
All the information is on the website.
We tell people he didn't, but I think we need to do more.
We need to write to these newspapers.
Every time they print something, everybody sends letters.
That's right, and I can't tell you how helpful that is.
When people send letters, it actually does do good.
You don't think it does any good, but it does,
because the reason is so few people send letters.
Everybody thinks it doesn't do any good, so nobody does it,
so then the few people that do it,
it winds up actually having an effect.
Of course, there are newspapers and TV stations
that just ignore whatever you say no matter what,
but it can't hurt to try, and if it fails,
then you try someplace else
until eventually you get the word out.
I'm confident that we will reach people
and the word is getting out.
I think a lot more people know about this now
than, say, 6 months ago or even 3 months ago.
Definitely.
The requests on the site have gone way up.
Just in the past few months, it's gone way, way up,
so I can see that people are looking at it.
Yes, and we're getting all kinds of offers to help.
Is there anything in particular that we need on the site
that maybe somebody could help us with?
Because we don't want you to be overwhelmed.
Some people on the Mitnick mailing list are helping out.
We're trying to index some of the legal documents
so that people can get through those more easily.
Uh-huh.
And there's all kinds of interesting things
hidden in those legal documents, too.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you can see a lot of things
that we're trying to point out now,
like the bias on the part of Judge Feltzer.
It's very clear in those hearings.
Right, and also things that will prove
that Kevin wasn't even considered a fugitive
when he was arrested,
or actually when he first went on the run.
There is substantial evidence to show
that that was concocted,
that he was not actually a fugitive,
that he had served out his parole
and that there was no reason to come after him.
All right, let's take some phone calls.
2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-100, this is off the hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein, we have Carrie in North Carolina,
our webmaster for www.kevinmitnick.com.
I should also point out that the site is now mirrored
on www.freekevin.com,
so that might actually be easier for some people to spell out.
And we have Bill SF in from Holland,
and I believe you're going out to the West Coast pretty soon.
Yes, tomorrow we're flying out.
Okay, so if you want to catch Bill SF
flying out on the West Coast, just check the tour sheet,
and I guess you can be part of that whole event.
How long are you going to be in the country for?
How long have we been here, Joost?
It's been about, well...
One week so far?
A little more than a week.
Two weeks to go.
Two weeks to go, and we got a take in L.A.
We figured we were going to maybe spend
3 or 4 days maximum there,
because most of the stuff I need to do is in the Bay Area.
But people from L.A. keep contacting me,
and just the list keeps getting bigger and bigger,
and I'm just going to have to pick and choose.
Yeah, do you want to give out your email
if more people want to reach you?
If I have to give out my email, it's
BillSFatCuba.xs4all.nl
And I read it daily, at least once a day.
If you want to see us, well...
Should we give that out, Joost?
Yeah, sure.
Okay, if you want to see our trip as it progresses,
go to...
Leave out the www, just type in your browser
Cuba.xs4all.nl
slash USA underscore trip.
And you will see...
Slash?
Wait, where's the slash?
At the end.
Oh, you don't need that slash.
The browser automatically does it.
Okay, if you're using Explorer,
maybe you need the slash.
I don't know.
The Explorer, yes.
Okay, so that has all the pictures.
Yeah, I saw some of those pictures, actually.
And you're taking pictures now, too.
You're taking pictures here.
I guess we'll be on there pretty soon.
Yeah, you're going to be on.
Yeah, so you'll see us talking about this.
But okay, that sounds like fun.
You'll be on the West Coast,
so people out there want to get together,
talk about the phone systems,
because you're a telephone expert of years past.
Yes, of years past.
I've also noticed in the last three and a half,
four years,
that the phone system here has degraded quite a bit.
Now, why would you say a thing like that?
What's wrong with our phone system?
Why would I say such a thing?
Because local calls sometimes lag for two or three seconds.
I mean, it sometimes takes me two or three seconds
to call somewhere local in New York City, in Manhattan,
but people that call me back from Holland
say it takes like about a tenth of a second to connect.
Really?
So the setup time is much longer here.
You know what's interesting?
Well, they have to add in all these things
that they didn't add in before.
If you make an AT&T call to another time zone,
one plus now, you hear the AT&T little slogan thing going by,
but now you also hear the time.
They tell you the time is whatever where you're calling,
which I think is kind of useful, but still,
it adds to the time it takes for the phone to start ringing.
I haven't experienced that yet.
I've just picked up the phone and called.
I mean, for calling Europe,
you've got to really watch it on these prepaid phone calls,
but some of them are a pretty good deal.
We've gotten as low a rate as $0.10 a minute
to call Holland during business hours,
but very often during the weekends and on the off hours,
they'll jack the rates up to $0.20 or $0.30 a minute.
There's another phone card, which I won't mention the name of,
that uses a 1-800 number that charges $0.14 a minute
to call Holland, which is quite a bargain,
but I learned it was almost $1 a minute
to call the West Coast of the U.S.
Wow, so they get you in various ways.
They get you one way or another.
When you have a prepaid card,
there's not much you can do about it.
That's the thing.
No, but they only cost $5, so you just...
Yeah, but it'll go away in a couple of minutes.
No, I learned from that $1 call to California
that I'm going to just call some friends in Holland
and burn this card up.
So I had some nice chats with some friends back home,
and that's my thing about prepaid phone cards.
I mean, you just got to shop around.
Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
There's only a handful of calls on there,
so we're going to take calls,
but I'm not taking it if there's that few
because I know who two of the calls are,
and I don't want to take those ones.
So let's light up that switchboard.
We've only been gone three weeks,
so I'm sure our listeners are still out there.
212-209-2900.
If you're listening overseas, country code 1.
Of course, we are being broadcast over the Internet.
Maybe our Internet people can e-mail us
and tell us how many people are out there listening,
and I'm sure we'd all be happy to hear that bit of information.
Well, we've got a few more, but not enough,
so let's get some more phone calls.
212-209-2900.
We're not even asking for money.
We're just asking for phone calls.
Carrie, are you still there?
Yep.
Okay.
Anything new we can look forward to on the Mitnick page?
Any new features?
I'm working with someone on the Mitnick mailing list right now
to get some media information,
more media-oriented information,
things that can be sent to the newspapers.
We'll add press releases as things come out and stuff like that.
That should be up soon, in the next week, I hope.
It's really turned into a very informative site,
and anybody who's interested in the way things are going in this case
should go there.
It's really become the authoritative source,
and that's one of the positive things of the case
is how well that's progressed,
and hopefully it can have some effect.
Okay.
We have a bunch of calls now,
so we're going to go to this line over here,
which I think is our lucky line,
and hopefully we won't lose Carrie.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, this is Stefan Ray calling.
How are you doing?
Where are you calling from?
I'm calling from Brooklyn.
Brooklyn.
How's the signal coming in way over there?
Okay, fine.
That's good.
I'm the person who was in the article you just read.
Oh, really?
And I believe Bill and I met in Linz.
You were in the article about the ISP?
I was in the article on hacktivism.
Oh, on hacktivism.
Yes, Stefan, I wanted to make a very strong point
that doing the flood pavilion was—
I don't hear myself.
Did I talk too loud?
I hear you.
You hear me.
Okay.
Trying to flood a website by just ping flooding it
or the flooding stuff was just nonsense
because most of these websites that are really fascist
are too stupid to use anything but NT.
And all you have to do is log into an illegal port
three times a second
and it will shut down the NT machine for sure.
Can we have an update on our—
So we just basically do a strobe.
Yeah, I know.
But we're trying to do something a little bit different.
We're trying to do a mass action that involves lots of people.
But I can do it all myself
and I proved it to the people that were sitting around me.
I guess you weren't there,
but I proved it to Rob and the people around me
that one man could wipe out all the sites you wanted to wipe out
with one computer.
Well, yes.
I know.
That's true.
Bill, can you take down the Internet in 30 minutes?
Can I take down the Internet in 30 minutes?
Probably not.
I can take down three sites in 30 minutes.
But I don't know the name of the announcer I'm talking to.
Emanuel.
You were making some comments about the New York Times
and their lack of coverage
or not mentioning the New York Times website.
Right.
Well, I spent a lot of time actually talking to this particular
New York Times reporter.
Her name is Amy Harmon.
And I think that she was the same reporter that wrote a story
about the attack on the New York Times site earlier on.
Yes, you're right.
I mean, it takes a lot of time with some of these journalists.
You have to really nurture them and move them along.
But this was their own newspaper.
Yeah.
They should be fresh in their minds.
I know.
It should definitely have been mentioned in there.
Absolutely.
But obviously, I think that there were some decisions made
at an editorial level, above the level of the reporter.
I agree.
I believe it's very likely that she wrote the story
and the editors just said,
no, we're not going to mention this.
Instead, we're going to put in that one sentence
saying that hackers steal credit cards.
Yeah.
What she thinks she also didn't put in,
she didn't put in our website address.
Okay.
Well, it's www.thing.net.
Thing.net?
Yeah.
T-H-I-N-G?
Yeah.
That's a good name.
Okay.
The thing is a server.
It's based up on West 26th Street.
It's an artist server.
Okay.
So it's www.thing.net slash tilde rdom, tilde r-d-o-m,
and then slash again, and then E-C-D, and then slash,
and then E-C-D dot H-T-M-L.
Wow, okay.
I know it's complicated.
We don't have our own domain name yet.
Uh-huh.
But yeah, anyways.
Well, that's good.
And just so you know,
and you might be interested in this,
the New York Free Media Alliance wants to put together
a panel on the subject of hacktivism
sometime in the spring, or actually maybe in winter.
So it might be good to have somebody from your show
or at least people from 2600 involved in that.
Sure, yeah.
It sounds like a really interesting topic,
something that's definitely going to be the activism of the next century.
It's going to be over the net.
Yeah.
So now what kind of feedback have you gotten from the article?
From the New York Times article?
Well, we got a call.
We got a reporter from a Swiss business magazine,
the largest Swiss business magazine.
It's called Cash Magazine, believe it or not.
The reporter that's based in New York wants to do an interview with us,
a follow-up interview,
and also so does Voice of America
because we've been talking about the School of the Americas action in November.
So that's our response from that.
And then we get all kinds of email messages all the time,
sometimes very obscure,
like we got something from somebody in Utah.
They said, oh, we live in rural Utah.
We're way the hell out in the middle of nowhere,
and we saw this piece on the front page of the New York Times,
and just want to let you know that we support what you're doing
and keep up the good work, that kind of stuff.
That's great.
Now tell me, have you gotten any kind of flack from the authorities about all this?
Well, actually the closest thing that comes to that happened when we were in Linz.
Just to make you understand what that means,
we were at the Ars Electronica Festival on information warfare
that was in Linz, Austria in the beginning of September,
and we did something on September 9th.
That's what Bill was just referring to.
He was in that same space.
And I was contacted.
My university at New York University was contacted by somebody
from within the Defense Information Systems Agency,
complaining mainly about content on my website at NYU
that was advocating and encouraging participation in these electronic
tool disobedience actions.
So I had to move.
Someone from DESA actually contacted your school?
DESA contacted the system administration and security people at my school, yes.
Wow.
So they really are affected by this kind of thing.
That's not even happening on the website.
They're affected more at the symbolic level, and they're affected.
Bill's correct in a pure technical sense.
His critique of flood net I think is right on.
But we've been able to simulate action,
and we've been able to generate quite a bit of noise in the media sphere,
which in the end is really what we want to do.
And our main focus has been around the Zapatistas, right?
That's been what our activity has been on.
But, yeah, the effect, what happened was that we, on September 9th,
we were doing a flood net action against the Pentagon's main website.
It's www.defenselink.mil,
and against Mexican President Zedillo's website
and also the Frankfurt Stock Exchange website.
There were people within Defenselink.
It's within DISA that manages,
they have even managed the Defenselink website.
So it's people from there.
They did some sort of a Java countermeasure.
Wired Magazine got in touch with them while this was all going on
and got someone within DCITS to sort of comment on this hostile Java app
against the flood net.
So that was one of the effects, really,
was them doing some sort of a countermeasure,
which as another journalist who I talked to from Defense News
who published a piece about this,
said that this was the first time they'd ever heard of the Defense Department
sort of admitting that they had actually done some sort of
offensive information warfare tactic against a domestic target,
meaning being us.
And so that's, you know, it's all,
these are the sort of things that are happening with this,
and it just, you know, it's happened very quickly and grown just since April.
Well, Stephan, I want to thank you for calling into the show.
Be sure to keep us updated on what happens.
Well, if you, like, give me an email or a website.
Do you have a website for your show?
Yeah, you can read about it on 2600.com slash OffTheHook.
All right.
Or you can email me, Emanuel, at 2600.com.
Okay.
All right?
All right.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
And that was Stephan Ray, was it, from Brooklyn,
who was in The New York Times only a couple of days ago.
Hey, I picked a good line there, didn't I?
All right, we have an update on the real-life situation
of 111 listeners from around the world right now,
so welcome to all of them.
Let's take one or two more phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, I just thought I'd point out
that today is the 10th anniversary of the Internet worm.
Is it really?
Yep.
Oh, how about that?
10th anniversary, huh?
November 3rd, 1988.
Yep, and just as an interesting side note,
Roger Morris got 3 years probation
for taking down the Internet.
Robert Morris, yeah.
And Mitnick's still in jail.
That's a very interesting...
You wouldn't be Robert Morris, would you?
No, I'm not.
Okay, I just wanted to check on that.
Well, thanks for that pointer.
Yep.
All right.
How about that?
I wonder what he's doing today.
You think he's celebrating?
Celebrating what?
He and his pop are probably celebrating
the control over the information society.
Oh, Robert Morris.
Yeah, Robert Morris, Jr.
Yeah.
Okay, 212-209-2900.
Let's go over here.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, good evening.
A technical question.
You mentioned before that with the new developments
in caller ID, even if your number's blocked...
Hello?
Yes.
Even if your number's blocked,
they are now able to read your name.
Is there any way of disabling that feature
in addition to your number?
If your number is blocked,
your name will be blocked as well
on a caller ID device.
That's not to say that the information
isn't being sent.
It's just that if it's configured properly,
the switch is not supposed to display
that information once it gets sent in.
Do you have something to say on this?
Yes.
I have a little bit to interject on this.
If you...
Oftentimes, especially here in America,
it just tells the other end
not to display the information.
And certain small phone systems
choose not to even honor a block request
and will send the information to the customer
in the clear anyways.
Yeah, we had that situation with OmniPoint
with their phones for a little while.
They don't do it anymore,
but they did it about a year or so ago.
And there's really nothing wrong with doing that.
I mean, there is ANI,
Automatic Number Identification.
Well, there's something wrong with doing that.
If you think you're blocking your number
and they wind up displaying it,
that's not right.
Well, maybe there's a different perception
of privacy in America than there is in Europe
because anytime you use a blower in Europe,
they don't call it the blower for nothing.
Well, I mean, you guys didn't even have
itemized billing for a long time
because that was seen as an invasion of privacy.
Now, explain to me the logic behind that.
Seeing what numbers you call on a piece of paper,
that's an invasion of privacy?
What's the logic?
Yes, it's an invasion of privacy
because it's all printed out on one nice sheet
and people can be traced who talks to who.
You see, we're so used to that.
We're so used to that,
we don't even think that's a privacy invasion.
But it definitely is.
But you don't think there's anything wrong
with your name and number being seen
by somebody you call?
No, because I could figure out a way to call to avoid it.
But can most people?
Most people, no.
Most people are just flocks of sheep.
Do you have any more questions?
Or cows, as they say here in...
Yeah, I'm interested in the...
A while back you were talking about
the ANI use for getting phone numbers
and, in fact, many of the sites
that were, in fact, hosting this particular feature
had gone down.
And I was wondering if there were
any newer ones that you're aware of.
ANI numbers, yeah, there are a bunch.
I don't have any offhand.
I do know that...
I think if you call AT&T on various numbers,
they still give you that information.
I know AT&T's Spanish number does,
so you can get the number that way.
There are a bunch of them out there.
You just have to sort of search around,
find them by accident.
Right. Okay, thanks a lot.
Thanks for calling.
Let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
Let's try...
I don't want to go over there.
That's the dangerous part of town.
Let's go over here.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Hi, Emanuel.
How are you doing?
Hi, nice show tonight.
Thank you.
I just wanted to know,
last time I went to your website,
the Kevin Mitnick clock said two years and change.
I understand it's much longer than that now.
I don't know when you would have seen that.
Carrie, can you verify that the clock is right?
Last time I looked, it was right.
It should be three years
and about eight months now, I think.
Let me go there.
Sometimes people have problems with different browsers.
It messes up a bit and shows a few thousand years.
Obviously, that's not right.
An older browser, yeah.
Yeah, an older browser might give you problems like that.
Right.
So you just have to upgrade.
But if it said two years,
I don't remember that happening.
There might have been some momentary glitch or something.
Okay, yeah, I tried it a couple of times.
This is Dr. Z, by the way.
Yeah, I have a lot to say,
but you don't have much time.
Yeah, we got a break for the election coverage
in a couple of minutes.
Okay, well, I'll let you get on to other callers.
And I just want to tell you, you're doing a good job,
and I'm behind you all the way.
And welcome to your guests from the Netherlands,
and wish them luck.
Okay, thanks very much for calling.
You have a nice day.
Thank you.
And that's going to just about do it for us
as far as taking phone calls.
Now I just want to give Carrie a chance
to give out any information for the website
if people want to send mail to her over there
or to volunteer some resources or maybe information.
Where should they mail you?
Carrie, K-E-R-R-Y at 2600.com.
Okay, great.
And also, let's point this out real quickly.
There was something involving Kevin's grandmother.
Do you want to tell people about this?
Yeah, she suffered a mild heart attack on Friday.
So if people want to send her a get well card,
the address is on the website.
You can find it on the defense fund section,
and it's the 2600 address.
Yeah, and you can send it through 2600
and we'll forward it on to her.
Kevin's grandma is one of the nicest people I've ever met.
She's extremely intelligent, articulate on this case,
and there's no doubt that the pressures of this case
are having an effect on everybody in his family.
I know the one thing that she really wants
is just to be able to see him again.
She lives in Las Vegas.
He's imprisoned in Los Angeles.
It's very difficult for her to get over there and see him.
And of course he didn't even know that this had happened to her.
He was trying to call her for days
and didn't find out I think until Saturday or Sunday,
and it was a very frustrating and anxious time.
But she does seem to be on the mend.
Hopefully she'll be getting out of the hospital.
If not today, then tomorrow.
We'll be keeping people updated on that on the website as well.
Thanks for being a part of the show tonight, Carrie,
and thanks for your continued efforts on the website.
Bill, I want to thank you very much for stopping by as well.
Okay, it's been fun.
I wish you luck in your continued journey across the land.
Yes, that was a rather interesting comment from that caller.
I mean, everybody please wish me luck,
and everything seems to be okay now.
I mean, we had a little scary incident that happened
just when we arrived here, but I'd rather not talk about it.
Okay, well, we'll just leave it at that for now.
Maybe we'll get into it in future shows.
That's it for this week.
That's Emanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook.
We'll be back again next week.
Coming up or immediately following this program
is the continuing coverage by Pacifican News.
Our voices will be heard at 10 minutes after 9 o'clock,
so you can hear it at that point in time.
Coming up in just a few minutes,
we'll be continuing Pacifican News coverage
of today's Election Day coverage.
Find out who won, who lost,
and just how much things will be changing in the years ahead.
Until next week, good night.
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
For Billy Bone, for the best, expect the worst
I hope that's understood
For Billy Bone
From Pacifica Network News,
this is Election Night Special Report.
I'm Larry Bensky with an update of races around the country
and a shocker coming in at this hour.
The networks are declaring,
just as the polls close in New York,
that longtime Senator Alphonse D'Amato
has been defeated by Charles Schumer,
his Democratic challenger.
If true, this would perhaps lead to a Democrat pickup
of seats in the United States Senate
on a night when Republicans were talking about
possibly increasing their margin to a veto-proof level.
Let's go right to the Senate races here in this update
and take a look at what's happened so far.
As we reported earlier, the Democrats, as expected,
have picked up a Republican Senate seat in Indiana.
The seat once held by Dan Coats
is now held by Evan Bayh,
the former Indiana governor who won easily there.
Big surprise in North Carolina,
where 45-year-old John Edwards, a Democrat,
has upset one-term Senator Locke Faircloth
for a pickup for the Democrats there.
In Arkansas, Blanche Lambert Lincoln