Off The Hook - 1999-06-08

[00:01.660 --> 00:11.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Our Americas, every Friday from 5 to 6 p.m., from the pages of NACLAW's report on the Americas to Pacifica Radio's award-winning coverage of the hemisphere.
[00:11.980 --> 00:23.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: Keep up to date about the region on Our Americas, the weekly report on Latin America and the Caribbean, Friday afternoons at 5 p.m., only on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[00:30.020 --> 00:32.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:32.780 --> 00:34.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:41.280 --> 00:45.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:45.920 --> 00:50.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:51.400 --> 00:55.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[00:56.260 --> 00:58.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bon Dillibon was the best, expect the worst.
[00:59.540 --> 01:01.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: I hope that's understood.
[01:01.600 --> 01:02.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bon Dillibon!
[01:57.930 --> 02:01.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you can call them people, flower children and this and that.
[02:01.370 --> 02:06.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Some of them people was loaded on some drugs that it's just too bad we wasn't loaded on.
[02:50.930 --> 02:53.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a place I'd like to close your eyes and you'll float away.
[03:23.440 --> 03:26.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: With the essence of the souls that yield for a spell.
[04:21.020 --> 04:26.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: When I hear you say, then you fall into a deep narcotic sin.
[04:27.620 --> 04:31.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like a tomb, a tree without a care.
[04:31.260 --> 04:34.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can see hellflowers everywhere.
[04:34.880 --> 04:38.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: A scent of evil fills the air.
[04:39.020 --> 04:43.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can taste the magic you do, dear.
[05:04.230 --> 05:08.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everything beautiful contains some evil flowers.
[05:08.410 --> 05:14.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Always you'll see they're coming through, I need a hellflower satan.
[05:30.810 --> 05:37.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a monster, and I am surrounded by a sea of flowers.
[05:37.930 --> 05:40.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: There are daisies,
[05:45.360 --> 05:48.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: the monsters, are the monsters.
[05:49.400 --> 05:52.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: They are so pretty, and they mean...
[06:30.400 --> 06:35.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Without a care, you can see hellflowers everywhere.
[06:36.140 --> 06:39.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: The scent of evil fills the air.
[06:39.820 --> 06:41.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can taste the magic.
[06:55.110 --> 06:57.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why then, you have to come and mix it up.
[07:35.220 --> 07:37.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is this mysterious thing?
[07:37.260 --> 07:41.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Tim has the end of the demon of blood that's left.
[08:20.100 --> 08:21.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And good evening to everybody.
[08:21.460 --> 08:28.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is off the hook, somehow, with every adverse condition you could possibly imagine coming into play.
[08:28.680 --> 08:30.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: But the important thing is that we made it.
[08:31.080 --> 08:32.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Porkchop joined us on the telephone.
[08:34.520 --> 08:35.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Porkchop, are you there?
[08:36.200 --> 08:38.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, you see, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
[08:38.580 --> 08:39.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is what I mean.
[08:39.840 --> 08:40.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: The phone's not working.
[08:42.220 --> 08:43.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: People not being around.
[08:44.140 --> 08:45.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ah, what are you going to do?
[08:45.940 --> 08:48.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, well, we'll try and hook up with him a little later.
[08:49.320 --> 08:51.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know how that could have gotten messed up, but...
[08:51.480 --> 08:56.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, that's the nature of technology for things not to work right.
[08:58.700 --> 09:05.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was in a traffic jam before, underneath a sign that said normal traffic conditions, no tie-ups ahead, and nobody was moving.
[09:06.180 --> 09:07.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Everybody was admiring the sign.
[09:09.040 --> 09:10.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's just the way it goes, I guess.
[09:11.520 --> 09:16.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, we had our demonstrations last Friday, and boy, what an amazing turn of events that was.
[09:17.200 --> 09:21.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: You also have to bear with me because my voice sounds all distorted through my ears.
[09:21.260 --> 09:24.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I know, you know, sometimes it sounds distorted in real life, but...
[09:24.220 --> 09:27.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: In this particular case, these headphones are kinda, kinda wrong.
[09:31.600 --> 09:32.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah, okay.
[09:33.120 --> 09:36.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: I can't take that call now, unfortunately, because I'm on the air!
[09:37.720 --> 09:38.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: No one ever calls me.
[09:38.860 --> 09:40.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: No one ever calls me, unless I'm on the air.
[09:41.020 --> 09:43.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And everybody calls, everybody says, uh...
[09:43.700 --> 09:44.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, what are you doing?
[09:44.400 --> 09:44.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: What are you up?
[09:44.640 --> 09:45.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I'm on the radio, so...
[09:46.400 --> 09:47.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what I'm doing right now.
[09:48.500 --> 09:53.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, so as far as what's going on in the world, well, we had the demonstrations on Friday.
[09:53.640 --> 09:55.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Lots and lots of people showed up in New York.
[09:55.460 --> 09:58.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: We had people showing up in all different cities throughout the country, throughout the world, in fact.
[09:59.440 --> 10:01.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, even better than...
[10:01.960 --> 10:02.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry about that.
[10:02.740 --> 10:05.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Even better than me talking about it, um...
[10:05.580 --> 10:13.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think we should let the WBAI news department talk about it, because they wanted a few media outlets here in New York that actually managed to, uh, to show up.
[10:14.940 --> 10:18.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: So this is the report that, uh, played on the air Friday night.
[10:18.380 --> 10:21.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, keep in mind, I've never played a cassette deck on the air before, so this may not work.
[10:22.540 --> 10:23.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's see.
[10:24.240 --> 10:25.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, of course it didn't work.
[10:25.500 --> 10:27.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, I'm going to, uh, press it myself.
[10:28.100 --> 10:28.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's try that.
[10:29.040 --> 10:29.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: There we are.
[10:29.620 --> 10:40.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Today, at federal courthouses around the country, protesters gathered to bring attention to the case of an alleged computer hacker who's been in jail for four years, yet has never had a trial or a bail hearing.
[10:41.100 --> 10:45.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: WBAI's Heather Pettinato was at the federal court in Manhattan and files this report.
[10:46.700 --> 10:47.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Free Kevin!
[10:48.060 --> 10:49.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Free Kevin!
[10:49.480 --> 10:50.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Free Kevin!
[10:51.220 --> 10:52.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Free Kevin!
[10:52.740 --> 10:53.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Free Kevin!
[10:53.060 --> 10:53.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Free Kevin!
[10:53.560 --> 11:05.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Simultaneously, protesters in 14 cities around the country and in Moscow were rallying for the release of Kevin Mitnick, a computer hacker who was taken into federal custody on February 15, 1995.
[11:05.620 --> 11:12.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mitnick is accused of saying he was someone else on the phone and then gaining possession of the software of major cellular phone corporations.
[11:13.200 --> 11:18.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel Goldstein, an organizer of today's protest, said that Mitnick's imprisonment is an outrage.
[11:18.700 --> 11:19.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is not a violent criminal.
[11:20.160 --> 11:21.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is not somebody who stole anything.
[11:21.740 --> 11:30.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is simply somebody who was a little bit too curious, who delved into some corporate secrets, but didn't display them to the competition or do anything harmful.
[11:30.880 --> 11:31.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: He was just curious.
[11:32.180 --> 11:33.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what this boils down to.
[11:33.300 --> 11:40.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mitnick will be sentenced on June 14, when the judge will either recommend more prison time or immediate release to a halfway house.
[11:41.100 --> 11:48.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: In addition, Goldstein says the authorities want to impose severe restrictions on Mitnick for at least three years after the end of his prison term.
[11:48.820 --> 11:50.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: He won't be allowed to use a cellular telephone.
[11:50.860 --> 11:53.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: He won't be allowed to be anywhere near any kind of technology.
[11:53.720 --> 11:58.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, regulations that are being given by people who know absolutely nothing about technology.
[11:59.260 --> 12:07.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mitnick's supporters say he's never been accused of violent, stealing, or causing any sort of physical damage, but he's been treated far worse than any violent criminal.
[12:08.180 --> 12:12.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And also, they point out that even the Oklahoma City bombers had a bail hearing.
[12:12.560 --> 12:21.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yet, the cellular phone companies claim Mitnick caused millions of dollars in undocumented damages when even the prosecution admits he did nothing more than look at their software.
[12:22.460 --> 12:26.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Goldstein says his goal is to make more and more people aware of this growing problem.
[12:27.100 --> 12:32.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: People keep wanting to appear to be hard on crime, but what they're failing to realize is that a lot of people are in prison now who shouldn't be there.
[12:33.060 --> 12:34.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're not threats to society.
[12:34.440 --> 12:39.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: So basically, anybody who is caught breaking the law in any way must be sent to prison.
[12:39.680 --> 12:40.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the mentality.
[12:40.800 --> 12:43.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: With that kind of mentality, it's easy to get away with anything.
[12:43.760 --> 12:45.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: So lock people away and forget about them.
[12:45.400 --> 12:53.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Updates on Kevin Mitnick's case can be found on the World Wide Web at www.freekevin.com.
[12:53.400 --> 12:56.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: For WBAI News, I'm Heather Pettinotto.
[13:00.400 --> 13:04.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And much thanks to Heather and the WBAI News team for covering the story.
[13:04.580 --> 13:06.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, we told everybody about it.
[13:06.140 --> 13:10.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: We told everybody that this was going on, and a few people took us at our word.
[13:10.580 --> 13:12.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: A few people actually covered the story.
[13:12.820 --> 13:13.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: You saw pieces on ZDTV.
[13:14.520 --> 13:15.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: You saw something on Wired.
[13:15.640 --> 13:19.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: You saw a few other media pieces throughout different cities.
[13:20.900 --> 13:23.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: But it's amazing how many didn't show up.
[13:23.580 --> 13:26.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: How many media people just decided this wasn't worth covering.
[13:26.960 --> 13:31.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, a lot of people did show up who thought it was worth covering, who are just regular people.
[13:31.240 --> 13:34.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I think that's where the real credit goes for those of you that actually came down.
[13:34.980 --> 13:35.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it was great.
[13:35.800 --> 13:37.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was great meeting all these people.
[13:37.240 --> 13:38.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Some of them for the first time.
[13:38.460 --> 13:39.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: WBAI listeners.
[13:39.960 --> 13:41.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: People from the 2600 crowd.
[13:42.620 --> 13:43.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Readers.
[13:43.940 --> 13:47.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Various other people that just happened to see one of the posters that somehow made it all throughout the city.
[13:48.940 --> 13:51.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the same scene was repeated elsewhere.
[13:51.380 --> 13:52.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Starting in Moscow.
[13:52.500 --> 13:53.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Moscow had the very first of them.
[13:54.120 --> 14:00.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: And going all the way up to, I believe, San Francisco was the very last one.
[14:00.220 --> 14:02.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: San Francisco, Spokane, Washington, that particular area.
[14:03.620 --> 14:12.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you can actually start to see some of the pictures that came from, I think, both New York and Moscow.
[14:12.300 --> 14:13.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Porkchop's with us now.
[14:13.210 --> 14:13.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Porkchop, are you there?
[14:14.020 --> 14:14.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here I am.
[14:14.800 --> 14:15.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, great.
[14:15.500 --> 14:18.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: So I believe those pictures are going up on the website tonight, is that right?
[14:18.600 --> 14:19.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[14:19.560 --> 14:20.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, great.
[14:20.380 --> 14:25.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: So people can actually see what it looks like in Moscow at a Kevin Mitnick demonstration.
[14:25.680 --> 14:26.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[14:26.360 --> 14:27.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty cool.
[14:33.300 --> 14:33.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[14:33.970 --> 14:36.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Eastern time, for those of you who are listening in other parts of the world.
[14:37.900 --> 14:41.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: The address, www.2600.com slash demo.
[14:42.320 --> 14:45.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: Or just go to the main page and click on the big demonstration section there.
[14:47.080 --> 14:48.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: You were at the demonstration for a while.
[14:49.000 --> 14:49.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: What were your impressions?
[14:50.470 --> 14:51.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there were a lot of people there.
[14:52.000 --> 14:53.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's certainly true.
[14:54.300 --> 14:59.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: In New York, I believe, there might have even been 50 people there handing out flyers.
[14:59.620 --> 15:01.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: I believe we handed out, what was it, 3,000?
[15:01.340 --> 15:02.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: We found out, 3,000 flyers.
[15:02.970 --> 15:05.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: We kept going to Kinko's.
[15:05.230 --> 15:07.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, that reminds me, I've got to go back there, because they double charged me.
[15:07.760 --> 15:09.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: They kept trying to do that all throughout the day.
[15:09.970 --> 15:12.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: They kept charging me for double-sided for some reason.
[15:12.440 --> 15:16.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know why, but I got the little receipt, and I'm going to take care of those people.
[15:16.900 --> 15:21.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: But yes, we had to keep going back and printing them up, and that was a lot of fun.
[15:21.940 --> 15:22.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: 3,000.
[15:22.380 --> 15:23.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of people, though.
[15:23.160 --> 15:23.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of heads turned.
[15:24.060 --> 15:24.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's a lot of people.
[15:24.970 --> 15:31.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think we got everybody who walked past the courthouse, and a lot of people walked past the courthouse that the cops did not bother us at all.
[15:31.640 --> 15:33.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: They were definitely aware of us.
[15:33.660 --> 15:35.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think they had been notified about us.
[15:35.260 --> 15:41.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: But they allowed us to walk back and forth and hold our banners and flags and various things like that.
[15:41.340 --> 15:43.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think it worked out really nicely.
[15:45.060 --> 15:52.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Obviously, nobody really was unreceptive to... except for one lunatic at the very beginning, but that was an isolated instance.
[15:52.500 --> 15:53.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Short-lived.
[15:53.140 --> 15:59.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: You always get, like, you know, hecklers, people who try to get you to react in some way.
[15:59.300 --> 16:01.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: But he went back into the federal building, and that was the end of him.
[16:03.540 --> 16:07.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, actually, I think he was just somebody who straggled in from someplace else.
[16:08.820 --> 16:15.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: We had skywriting, although, you know, I'm not sure how effective it was, if anybody actually saw it, because we didn't see it.
[16:15.580 --> 16:16.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Supposedly, it was above Central Park.
[16:16.780 --> 16:22.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: If anyone out there saw it, please call us, let us know, because that will determine whether or not we do it again.
[16:23.180 --> 16:24.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's sort of a make-up for this one.
[16:25.440 --> 16:28.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, we'd like to know if anybody actually saw the free cabin.
[16:28.580 --> 16:30.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: Supposedly, uptown, not downtown.
[16:30.730 --> 16:33.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Call in or email us if you can't call in today.
[16:33.840 --> 16:35.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, OTH at 2600.com.
[16:35.680 --> 16:38.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let me read you a Reuters report on all the events.
[16:38.600 --> 16:47.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: Computer hackers demonstrated in front of federal courthouses nationwide Friday to protest the treatment of Kevin Mitnick, the online renegade who has spent most of the past four years in prison.
[16:48.540 --> 16:58.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mitnick, who was arrested in 1995 and pleaded guilty in March to wire and computer fraud in one of the best-known computer hacking cases ever, faces sentencing next week in Los Angeles.
[16:58.280 --> 16:59.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, that sentencing date is Monday.
[16:59.900 --> 17:01.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, that's something else we have to be keeping an eye on.
[17:02.060 --> 17:10.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, I'm thinking we should have sort of an online vigil where we continuously watch and wait and count down and see what happens.
[17:10.540 --> 17:12.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of course, it's possible they might postpone it again.
[17:12.780 --> 17:13.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Who knows?
[17:13.300 --> 17:20.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: But right now, it seems to be set in stone for, I believe, 1pm Pacific Time on Monday, June 14th.
[17:20.760 --> 17:26.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Under terms of the plea, Mitnick could be sentenced to 54 months in prison with much of that credited time served.
[17:26.320 --> 17:34.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Supporters complained that Mitnick's acts, which included breaking into computers of major networking and cellular telephone companies, did not merit such harsh punishment.
[17:34.420 --> 17:36.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: A dozen Mitnick supporters rallied in front of the U.S.
[17:36.970 --> 17:40.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Supreme Court, passing out flyers to puzzled and bemused tourists.
[17:40.960 --> 17:45.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: Actually, I heard more than a dozen people showed up in D.C., but maybe at that particular time, that's what was there.
[17:45.860 --> 17:51.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: The mostly teenage and 20-something protesters wore t-shirts, buttons, and bumper stickers calling for Mitnick's release.
[17:51.360 --> 17:59.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: The protesters said they generally did not condone Mitnick's acts or more malicious computer invasions, but objected to what they called excessive punishment.
[17:59.000 --> 18:02.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: We want people to know that this can happen to anybody.
[18:02.460 --> 18:10.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: And one protester said that, who has to be identified only as Richard, you never know when they'll come for you.
[18:11.200 --> 18:19.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Bradley Lang, a student from Michigan who flew to Washington to participate in the demonstration, said Mitnick had been demonized to set an example to other would-be hackers.
[18:19.760 --> 18:22.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: They want to scare the pants off of future hackers, Lang said.
[18:22.760 --> 18:24.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're making an example of him.
[18:24.730 --> 18:27.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Capitol Police looked on, but did not interfere with the protesters.
[18:27.840 --> 18:34.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: The protests, which also took place in New York, Chicago, and other cities, were organized by the magazine 2600, a popular hacker journal.
[18:34.210 --> 18:35.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: Isn't that nice of them to call us popular?
[18:35.730 --> 18:36.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's great, yeah.
[18:36.360 --> 18:37.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, that's something...
[18:37.520 --> 18:39.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, being popular is not...
[18:39.420 --> 18:41.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's not cool, you know?
[18:41.400 --> 18:42.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess there's a difference here.
[18:42.600 --> 18:43.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: It ought to be cool, not popular.
[18:44.440 --> 18:45.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: We can be hip.
[18:45.360 --> 18:46.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I suppose.
[18:48.470 --> 18:49.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, trying to...
[18:49.360 --> 18:50.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's have that, never mind.
[18:51.600 --> 18:52.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Here's the Wired story.
[18:52.800 --> 18:54.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is kind of funny, actually.
[18:55.540 --> 19:04.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: The Wired people, as we play the hip music, the Wired people, they always got to put something in that's kind of like sullen, you know what I mean?
[19:04.100 --> 19:08.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's kind of like putting you down in some snide way, you know?
[19:08.520 --> 19:09.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're always bitchy about it.
[19:09.940 --> 19:12.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know why that is, but every Wired story I've ever seen, they've always been that.
[19:13.540 --> 19:13.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: And...
[19:14.920 --> 19:17.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Porkshot, why don't you see if you can find the point in the story when they do that?
[19:17.800 --> 19:18.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay?
[19:18.230 --> 19:19.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just speak up when you hear that part.
[19:19.900 --> 19:20.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[19:20.320 --> 19:31.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: In 15 American cities and Moscow, demonstrators staged protest Friday against the continued imprisonment of Kevin Mitnick, jailed after pleading guilty to seven counts of wire and computer fraud.
[19:32.020 --> 19:34.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't he jailed before he pleaded guilty?
[19:34.900 --> 19:35.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's a very good point.
[19:35.800 --> 19:37.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: I didn't even catch that, but yeah, you're absolutely right.
[19:37.710 --> 19:39.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of course, he was jailed way before he pleaded guilty.
[19:39.760 --> 19:41.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was jailed back in 1995.
[19:41.160 --> 19:42.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: He pleaded guilty in 1999.
[19:43.640 --> 19:44.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, yeah, that's a bit of a...
[19:44.940 --> 19:46.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's a bit of a...
[19:46.210 --> 19:46.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, okay.
[19:46.940 --> 19:47.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: ...misfact there.
[19:48.140 --> 19:48.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[19:48.840 --> 19:55.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just don't call him a celebrity cracker, growled Mackey, the webmaster for 2600, the hacker group magazine that organized the events.
[19:55.380 --> 20:09.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, the funny thing about that is that we've always noticed, in fact, I was talking to Mackey about this a couple of weeks ago, how every article about Kevin Mitnick, they insist on calling him a celebrity cracker, because that's a little terminology they've coined to make sure they don't call him a hacker,
[20:09.300 --> 20:13.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: because that would annoy people who don't like that word used for people who are in jail.
[20:14.660 --> 20:19.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, of course, they didn't use the word celebrity cracker in the story, except to quote somebody saying it.
[20:19.920 --> 20:22.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, they actually managed to get it in there anyway.
[20:22.760 --> 20:23.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's pretty funny.
[20:24.040 --> 20:24.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's actually clever.
[20:25.300 --> 20:26.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hats off to Wired for that one.
[20:27.440 --> 20:37.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Armed with yellow free Kevin stickers and flyers describing Mitnick's case, Mackey and nearly 20 other Mitnick supporters battled the miserable San Francisco wind to fight for the cause.
[20:37.320 --> 20:45.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're getting the word out to the worldwide and national consciousness about Mitnick's sentencing, said Mark Powell, a pink-haired member of the local hacker collective New Hack City.
[20:46.210 --> 20:55.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: Clad in an I Love Feds t-shirt, Powell said that although his own cyber tomfoolery has been strictly within the law, he sympathized with Mitnick's imprisonment.
[20:56.160 --> 20:59.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: As far as protests go, Mitnick's demonstration was relatively low-key.
[21:00.470 --> 21:07.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: The attendees cheered as a low-flying airplane went by, trailing a banner that said, free Kevin Mitnick, www.freekevin.com.
[21:08.140 --> 21:11.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: But after seven or eight more passes, the enthusiasm waned.
[21:11.880 --> 21:12.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-oh.
[21:12.380 --> 21:12.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: There we go.
[21:12.900 --> 21:13.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's it right there.
[21:13.680 --> 21:14.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, come on.
[21:14.260 --> 21:15.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: A plane passes by, right?
[21:15.840 --> 21:18.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, it has a sign on there, and you wave enthusiastically.
[21:18.730 --> 21:22.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Are you really expected to wave just as enthusiastically the eighth time it goes by?
[21:22.320 --> 21:23.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Like, come on, already.
[21:23.440 --> 21:25.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: We'd have to be a bunch of morons to keep that up.
[21:26.200 --> 21:29.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ah, but of course, yeah, enthusiasm kind of wanes after the same thing happens eight times.
[21:30.600 --> 21:31.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hate to tell them that.
[21:31.840 --> 21:32.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: It would to me.
[21:32.080 --> 21:32.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry?
[21:32.320 --> 21:32.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: It would to me.
[21:33.340 --> 21:33.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah.
[21:34.580 --> 21:37.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, the first time I read this story, I was a lot more excited about it than now.
[21:38.400 --> 21:44.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, some in the group had followed Mitnick's plight from the beginning, but others were just there to be part of an anti-government staging.
[21:44.280 --> 21:54.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, Robin, a self-proclaimed anarchist and network administrator with a partially shaved head and a plethora of piercings, said he was in attendance because it was a strike back at the government.
[21:55.100 --> 21:55.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: But other...
[21:55.720 --> 21:56.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry?
[21:56.500 --> 21:56.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hmm.
[21:57.080 --> 21:57.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[21:57.820 --> 21:58.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Never mind.
[21:58.220 --> 22:01.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: But others like Perry McNulty said Mitnick was a study in civil rights.
[22:01.920 --> 22:05.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's not just a hacker in jail, said McNulty, who has followed Mitnick's case for about a year.
[22:05.440 --> 22:06.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: A lot of civil rights have been violated.
[22:07.060 --> 22:08.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: It could happen to any one of us.
[22:08.580 --> 22:10.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you know, there was a piece on ZDTV as well.
[22:11.000 --> 22:14.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, and you can also, you can see this if you can find your way around their website.
[22:14.300 --> 22:16.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's really, really tough for a lot of people that do that.
[22:16.180 --> 22:24.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, uh, there's a piece somewhere in there that's in real video, uh, that is a duplicate of the piece they ran on their evening news on Friday and throughout the weekend.
[22:24.460 --> 22:32.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: And in that piece, there is, there is one, one, um, I guess two people actually who showed up, which I thought was really amazing.
[22:32.740 --> 22:34.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: And this is, this is the kind of thing that inspires me so much.
[22:34.920 --> 22:44.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: But a mother drove her son over 200 miles just to be at that demonstration because she was so impressed with what he had shown her about the Kevin Mitnick case over the past year.
[22:45.440 --> 22:53.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's the real reason we're out there is to, uh, is to reach people in that way and just, uh, open up the lines of communication.
[22:53.080 --> 22:55.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: I just thought that was, that was so cool how somebody did that.
[22:55.680 --> 22:56.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Again, in, in D.C.
[22:56.740 --> 23:00.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: we hear somebody flew all the way from Michigan, uh, to be there as well.
[23:00.700 --> 23:03.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, that's, uh, you, you can't ignore things like that.
[23:04.160 --> 23:04.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: You really can't.
[23:05.660 --> 23:11.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, any, any stories on, uh, on your end, Borchap, from, uh, from, uh, regarding the demonstrations?
[23:11.760 --> 23:11.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[23:12.580 --> 23:12.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[23:12.880 --> 23:13.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
[23:13.800 --> 23:23.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: We did, uh, encounter one, uh, policeman, uh, who, uh, ran up in front of us and said, no photographs, don't, please don't take photographs of the, uh, of the federal building.
[23:23.120 --> 23:24.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: That picture came out very well, too.
[23:24.740 --> 23:24.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[23:25.320 --> 23:25.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[23:25.840 --> 23:25.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[23:26.160 --> 23:26.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: It came out pretty well.
[23:27.160 --> 23:29.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we asked him why as he was running away.
[23:29.960 --> 23:31.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: He ran pretty fast, too, that guy.
[23:31.740 --> 23:32.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[23:32.100 --> 23:32.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: What?
[23:32.480 --> 23:32.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Excuse me?
[23:32.740 --> 23:33.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was running pretty fast.
[23:33.980 --> 23:35.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: He was running pretty fast.
[23:35.860 --> 23:38.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we asked him and he said, um, just one word, terrorist.
[23:39.900 --> 23:40.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um...
[23:40.620 --> 23:41.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what he said?
[23:41.220 --> 23:41.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: I didn't hear him say that.
[23:41.960 --> 23:42.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: He said that?
[23:42.620 --> 23:43.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: He said it on the tape.
[23:44.700 --> 23:45.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[23:45.480 --> 23:46.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: I could hear it later.
[23:46.640 --> 23:58.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, um, what interested me is that, supposedly, um, the federal courthouses had all received a warning that there were going to be protesters for, uh, Kevin Mitnick's cause and so on and so forth.
[23:58.900 --> 24:05.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think they would expect, you know, cameras and so on to be there of the media and of, uh, smaller media as well?
[24:05.460 --> 24:09.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: But still, up one came and, uh, asked us to stop filming.
[24:10.000 --> 24:10.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[24:10.500 --> 24:12.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we filmed him instead for a few frames.
[24:12.760 --> 24:18.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you know, it's like I said before, you know, you can't go and tell people they can't film a building in the middle of the city.
[24:18.260 --> 24:19.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's just, that's just not right.
[24:20.040 --> 24:20.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know?
[24:20.520 --> 24:23.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know how people can, uh, can expect to actually pull that one off.
[24:24.340 --> 24:34.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, unlike when I was there taking pictures a few days earlier to sort of test the waters, um, apart from that one instance, they really didn't step in and, and, and try to be unreasonable.
[24:35.200 --> 24:37.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I, I, I think that was reflected throughout the country as well.
[24:38.680 --> 24:46.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, and even in Moscow, even in Moscow, there's a picture up on the website or really up on the website a little later tonight, uh, of, of Moscow police reading the brochure.
[24:46.560 --> 24:51.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, that's really incredible that, uh, you know, they, they, they printed it out from the website and handed it out to people in Moscow.
[24:51.960 --> 24:56.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: And within minutes, the police were reading it and just, uh, it's kind of, kind of cool, I guess.
[24:56.100 --> 24:56.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mm-hmm.
[24:57.280 --> 25:01.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, here's a story from, uh, from ZDNet.
[25:01.480 --> 25:03.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: We'll be taking phone calls too, 212-209-2900.
[25:04.440 --> 25:16.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, supporters of convicted computer hacker, actually, they say convicted computer criminal, Kevin Mitnick, will, uh, take to the streets Friday in an effort to, uh, influence his sentencing.
[25:16.080 --> 25:18.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's even worse than Celebrity Cracker, isn't it?
[25:19.260 --> 25:21.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, ZDNN people, computer criminal.
[25:21.400 --> 25:24.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it just, well, it has that criminal sound to it, you know?
[25:24.100 --> 25:31.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, Mitnick, who has spent four years in prison without bail, pleaded guilty to five of 25 charges, including one hacking offense earlier this year.
[25:31.980 --> 25:33.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, that's how they can never get it straight.
[25:33.360 --> 25:33.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: Is it five?
[25:33.900 --> 25:34.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Is it seven?
[25:34.790 --> 25:37.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it's, uh, kind of, kind of crazy there.
[25:38.360 --> 25:40.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: He'll be sentenced on June 14th.
[25:40.280 --> 25:52.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: The demonstrations organized by New York-based hacker magazine 2600 contend that the Mitnick trial has been less the containment of a dangerous information age criminal than a witch hunt designed to discourage illegal hacking.
[25:54.400 --> 26:02.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: Organizers say they want the case as Los Angeles judge to release Mitnick immediately to a halfway house rather than impose the months of imprisonment prosecutors are asking for.
[26:03.580 --> 26:04.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Demonstrators will rally...
[26:04.820 --> 26:08.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: Actually, demonstrators did rally around federal courthouses in 15 U.S.
[26:08.880 --> 26:10.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: cities, as well as the U.S.
[26:10.880 --> 26:14.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Embassy in Moscow to hand out informational flyers and show their support for Mitnick's early release.
[26:14.960 --> 26:17.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Actually, this isn't so much an early release.
[26:17.100 --> 26:19.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is, uh, a way of sentencing.
[26:19.880 --> 26:22.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Basically, the sentencing can go one of two ways.
[26:22.680 --> 26:26.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, either time in prison, time in a halfway house.
[26:27.260 --> 26:30.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's, uh, that's how it's been explained to me as far as the way it can go.
[26:33.200 --> 26:35.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, that's pretty much it for that story.
[26:37.100 --> 26:38.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think you get the idea.
[26:39.460 --> 26:40.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: They went well.
[26:40.320 --> 26:41.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: They went very well.
[26:41.180 --> 26:45.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: And for those of you who were there for the first time, I'd like to, uh, like to hear from as many of you as possible on the phones tonight.
[26:46.320 --> 26:48.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, 212-209-2900.
[26:48.440 --> 26:56.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, let us know how it felt to be, uh, to be at a demonstration, especially those young people who were there, maybe never participated in something like this before.
[26:56.660 --> 27:00.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that goes nationwide, too, because I know a lot of people listening from different parts of the country.
[27:00.440 --> 27:02.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, Porsche, how many people are on, uh, online right now?
[27:02.700 --> 27:05.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, give me about 20 seconds, and I'll find out for you.
[27:05.380 --> 27:05.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[27:06.520 --> 27:13.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, we are broadcasting, of course, on www.2600.com, as we do every week at this time, as well as 99.5 FM.
[27:14.140 --> 27:21.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: There are 83 listeners on, uh, real audio, and if, uh, MP3's running, I'm not sure, uh, and it can sort of disappear today.
[27:21.620 --> 27:21.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[27:21.980 --> 27:25.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, anybody can just send me the number of, uh, MP3 listeners.
[27:25.500 --> 27:26.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll give that out, too.
[27:27.120 --> 27:30.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, uh, it's, uh, 83 listeners right now on, uh, real audio.
[27:31.120 --> 27:31.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[27:31.560 --> 27:33.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: I want to try something before we take some phone calls.
[27:33.320 --> 27:34.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Somebody emailed me this.
[27:34.620 --> 27:38.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, as you know, 646 will be starting pretty soon as the, uh, New York area code.
[27:39.080 --> 27:41.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, it's, um, scheduled for July.
[27:41.940 --> 27:43.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, and they have a test number.
[27:43.560 --> 27:44.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: They have a test number.
[27:44.780 --> 27:45.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: They have a dial tone.
[27:46.760 --> 27:47.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[27:48.200 --> 27:50.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's see if our switch is set up to handle this.
[27:51.400 --> 27:52.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Number is 646.
[27:54.660 --> 27:55.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: 674.
[27:58.280 --> 27:58.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: 99.
[28:00.380 --> 28:00.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: 99.
[28:12.120 --> 28:12.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're sorry.
[28:13.660 --> 28:17.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: The number you are calling cannot receive calls at this time.
[28:17.900 --> 28:19.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Please call again later.
[28:21.740 --> 28:22.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hmm, interesting.
[28:23.720 --> 28:24.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not your point.
[28:24.700 --> 28:27.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you know, let's, uh, let's get back to those AT&T operators for last week.
[28:29.400 --> 28:30.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's confuse them some more.
[28:32.180 --> 28:34.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: And let's call this number collect and see what happens.
[28:38.300 --> 28:40.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll bet they don't even know the area code exists.
[28:41.420 --> 28:42.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we're not going to tell them, are we?
[28:59.580 --> 29:00.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[29:00.540 --> 29:02.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[29:02.860 --> 29:07.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please check the number and try your call again, or ask your operator for assistance.
[29:07.380 --> 29:08.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[29:08.860 --> 29:12.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's kind of funny how that's the message you get when you call an operator.
[29:14.340 --> 29:17.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Used to be the operator would come on and say, sir, there's a problem with your number.
[29:17.400 --> 29:18.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Can I help you?
[29:18.100 --> 29:19.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: But no, they just give you a recording now.
[29:19.420 --> 29:22.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm convinced there's only about 10 people working at AT&T now, you know.
[29:22.260 --> 29:25.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: They've downsized so much, replaced everybody with computers and recordings.
[29:25.180 --> 29:30.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's just no chance of actually getting a human.
[29:31.340 --> 29:35.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Here's another story that came from the same person who actually sent this in.
[29:37.060 --> 29:52.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Saying that they got a piece of e-mail, and a few people might have seen this too, a piece of e-mail that basically has the message in it saying, to be removed from our list, call 1-473-408-8465.
[29:53.040 --> 29:55.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: And what that is, that's an international call.
[29:56.280 --> 29:58.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: It winds up costing a lot of money.
[29:58.620 --> 29:59.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think it's Grenada.
[30:00.960 --> 30:02.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's how they make their money.
[30:02.780 --> 30:10.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: By people calling these very far away numbers, being charged a huge amount, and these people splitting the profits.
[30:10.620 --> 30:12.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: In this case, Grenada phone companies, cable and wireless.
[30:13.620 --> 30:19.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: And they got some sort of sleazoid deal there, where they actually trick people into doing this.
[30:19.140 --> 30:23.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: It used to be that, you know, you call 0-1-1, and something would click in your head saying, hey, I'm calling international.
[30:23.440 --> 30:28.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: But now, with all these nutso area codes that don't look like area codes, you never know.
[30:28.440 --> 30:36.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Unless you memorize all of them, or unless you call AT&T and pay a dollar to find out what area code it is, you may never find out where you're calling until you get the phone bill.
[30:38.140 --> 30:38.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Unbelievable.
[30:39.040 --> 30:41.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we got this final letter, and then we'll take some calls.
[30:42.800 --> 30:49.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you have recently received a port scan of any type from this particular address, I won't give out the address to save them the embarrassment.
[30:49.960 --> 30:51.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Please disregard it.
[30:51.360 --> 30:58.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have given a friend an account for programming compiling, and he decided to port scan www.2600.com.
[30:58.540 --> 31:00.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: He no longer has an account.
[31:01.320 --> 31:03.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry, I just wanted to let you know that this was the case.
[31:04.180 --> 31:07.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's funny to me how someone would take something so seriously.
[31:08.640 --> 31:11.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, Port Shop, how badly would something like that hurt us?
[31:12.160 --> 31:13.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Not badly at all.
[31:13.340 --> 31:15.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: They might find something out, which, by the way, they won't.
[31:15.880 --> 31:20.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anybody who wants to port scan www.2600.com right now is welcome to try.
[31:20.520 --> 31:21.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, we fixed it.
[31:21.260 --> 31:26.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: We fixed the problem we had where basically all you had to do was hit return at the login prompt and be logged in as root.
[31:26.860 --> 31:28.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, yeah, that was a problem.
[31:28.140 --> 31:29.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's pretty silly of us to leave that there.
[31:29.720 --> 31:32.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: But that's gone, and I think everything else is gone too.
[31:32.580 --> 31:33.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mm-hmm.
[31:33.420 --> 31:34.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, go ahead.
[31:34.840 --> 31:35.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Have fun.
[31:35.020 --> 31:36.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: We get answers on three ports.
[31:36.540 --> 31:39.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, it's funny because people do get kicked out of school for things like that.
[31:39.980 --> 31:46.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: They get kicked out of school for, you know, for port scanning or for, you know, printing out a password file or copying a password file.
[31:46.200 --> 31:46.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's just world readable.
[31:47.860 --> 31:54.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, it's kind of silly that somebody would actually take disciplinary action against someone for doing something like that to us when we don't care at all.
[31:54.160 --> 31:56.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that kind of stuff is logged.
[31:57.040 --> 32:03.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just that we don't pay much attention to it since there really can't be anything done from information from a port scan.
[32:03.180 --> 32:12.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: You just find out which services a machine might be answering for, such as mail or even IRC in some cases.
[32:13.040 --> 32:17.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: In our case, it's World Wide Web, SunRPC, and SSH.
[32:18.160 --> 32:18.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[32:19.140 --> 32:21.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And neither of those really do much.
[32:22.540 --> 32:25.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all that interesting that somebody could take advantage of.
[32:25.600 --> 32:29.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, there are some SSH things going on, but I think we've got all those patched, hopefully.
[32:29.280 --> 32:29.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Not to mention.
[32:29.920 --> 32:30.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mm-hmm.
[32:30.600 --> 32:36.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Which allows people to log in over encrypted channels, as in Telnet.
[32:37.860 --> 32:38.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just a lot safer.
[32:39.660 --> 32:40.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[32:40.660 --> 32:47.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, with all the hullabaloo recently over hacked websites, you know, I think people might be taking this a little bit more seriously than they need to.
[32:48.240 --> 32:52.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Again, you know, if someone hacks a website, you fix the problem, you move on.
[32:53.100 --> 32:54.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's really it.
[32:54.260 --> 32:57.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's not a big federal case, whether it's 2600, whether it's the Senate.
[32:58.580 --> 33:01.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's, you know, it's the nature of computers.
[33:01.060 --> 33:06.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you just have to figure out what you did wrong, restore from the backups, start over again.
[33:06.860 --> 33:09.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: So it's the way it goes, the way it always has been.
[33:10.040 --> 33:11.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right, 212-209-2900.
[33:11.880 --> 33:12.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're the first call.
[33:12.660 --> 33:12.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[33:13.520 --> 33:14.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[33:14.300 --> 33:15.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Why are you always the first call?
[33:15.580 --> 33:16.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what I just don't get.
[33:16.560 --> 33:17.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I pick random numbers.
[33:17.740 --> 33:21.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: I bring in different phone lines from other exchanges, and you still are always there.
[33:22.100 --> 33:23.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you like me to...
[33:23.160 --> 33:23.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: I give up.
[33:23.680 --> 33:24.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: How about that?
[33:24.240 --> 33:25.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: I surrender.
[33:25.020 --> 33:25.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: You win.
[33:25.600 --> 33:26.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right?
[33:26.240 --> 33:26.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's over.
[33:26.800 --> 33:27.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: The game is over.
[33:27.840 --> 33:28.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: And let's move on.
[33:29.140 --> 33:29.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you like to...
[33:29.940 --> 33:30.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: What?
[33:31.400 --> 33:32.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, go ahead.
[33:32.120 --> 33:37.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you like for me to call an AT&T operator and demonstrate about the 646 thing?
[33:37.980 --> 33:38.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, okay, sure.
[33:38.800 --> 33:40.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'd love to hear you harass a poor AT&T operator.
[33:41.200 --> 33:41.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[33:41.460 --> 33:42.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: As long as it's not me.
[33:42.380 --> 33:42.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go right ahead.
[33:43.020 --> 33:44.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: This should be interesting.
[33:44.320 --> 33:45.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, can you hear me still?
[33:45.960 --> 33:46.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, yeah, yeah.
[33:47.980 --> 33:49.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: My wish did not come true.
[33:50.220 --> 33:50.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: I gotta go.
[33:50.860 --> 33:51.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: 101-0288.
[33:52.540 --> 33:54.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Used to be you just got 102-8-8.
[33:55.120 --> 33:59.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, there's another one of those things, 101-6-something, and they give you free calls.
[33:59.720 --> 34:01.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, wait, wait.
[34:01.260 --> 34:01.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, wait, wait.
[34:01.420 --> 34:01.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, wait, wait.
[34:01.640 --> 34:03.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: They give you free calls under a minute, I hear.
[34:04.520 --> 34:05.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what I heard.
[34:05.960 --> 34:06.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: 101...
[34:06.400 --> 34:08.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: 101-6-something.
[34:08.460 --> 34:09.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, continue with your call.
[34:09.940 --> 34:10.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[34:11.540 --> 34:12.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, you hung up?
[34:13.100 --> 34:13.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: What?
[34:13.900 --> 34:14.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just keep going.
[34:14.980 --> 34:15.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[34:15.940 --> 34:17.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: We only have so long to live, you know.
[34:17.920 --> 34:21.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: AT&T, please hold for operator assistance.
[34:25.920 --> 34:27.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: AT&T, now may I help you?
[34:27.660 --> 34:33.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I was wondering where the 646 area code is, and if it's an area code, and where it might be.
[34:34.300 --> 34:38.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: That information is now provided by AT&T 00-info directory service.
[34:38.620 --> 34:40.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: One moment, please, while I connect you.
[34:40.380 --> 34:40.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know...
[34:40.840 --> 34:41.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Whoa!
[34:42.060 --> 34:43.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: They connect you...
[34:43.180 --> 34:43.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was a recording.
[34:44.140 --> 34:44.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...and they don't cost a dollar.
[34:44.800 --> 34:45.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: That was a recording.
[34:46.320 --> 34:48.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I told her that they'd have a recording.
[34:48.440 --> 34:48.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't...
[34:48.540 --> 34:50.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: Can you believe they don't even ask anymore if...
[34:50.780 --> 34:51.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, exactly.
[34:51.880 --> 34:52.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[34:52.400 --> 34:52.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[34:54.080 --> 34:54.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's...
[34:54.520 --> 34:56.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, you probably got charged the minute she started saying that.
[34:57.060 --> 34:57.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, probably.
[34:57.960 --> 35:01.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, we'll find out, I guess, in a month when you call us back to tell us what your phone bill is.
[35:02.320 --> 35:02.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[35:02.740 --> 35:04.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: And AT&T still puts third number closer.
[35:04.720 --> 35:05.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me demonstrate.
[35:05.660 --> 35:05.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-oh.
[35:07.180 --> 35:09.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Dial 10-10288.
[35:09.240 --> 35:09.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[35:10.100 --> 35:10.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Plus zero.
[35:12.360 --> 35:13.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: And a number...
[35:13.480 --> 35:14.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but you're calling from your house.
[35:16.000 --> 35:16.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: And a number.
[35:17.020 --> 35:17.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Listen to this.
[35:18.340 --> 35:19.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anybody could do this.
[35:19.360 --> 35:20.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: But you're calling from your house.
[35:20.580 --> 35:20.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[35:21.200 --> 35:21.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.
[35:21.500 --> 35:22.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T.
[35:23.660 --> 35:25.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please enter your calling card number.
[35:26.040 --> 35:28.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: You could just press zero for the...
[35:28.080 --> 35:29.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is AT&T.
[35:30.060 --> 35:33.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please say, collect, calling card, third number...
[35:33.880 --> 35:34.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Third number.
[35:34.920 --> 35:35.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Third...
[35:35.300 --> 35:35.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I guess...
[35:35.780 --> 35:36.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Third number.
[35:36.840 --> 35:41.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please enter the area code and number that you wish to bill this call to now.
[35:41.940 --> 35:43.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, I'm going to pick up the phone for this one because...
[35:43.880 --> 35:45.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: You better not bill it to anybody I know.
[35:45.820 --> 35:46.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no.
[35:46.300 --> 35:46.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[35:47.860 --> 35:50.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, for that matter, you better not bill it to any poor, innocent person out there.
[35:50.820 --> 35:51.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[35:51.260 --> 35:52.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because we all know this is...
[35:52.020 --> 35:53.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you know, if you do, they're going to...
[35:53.320 --> 35:53.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is why.
[35:53.540 --> 35:54.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Listen to the listen.
[35:55.260 --> 35:57.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for using AT&T.
[35:57.720 --> 35:59.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, of course I'll hang up and not let the phone call through.
[35:59.860 --> 36:03.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, okay, but the point is, you're calling from your house, your number shows up on their phone bill.
[36:04.080 --> 36:04.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[36:04.220 --> 36:05.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's how they justify this.
[36:05.740 --> 36:05.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, exactly.
[36:05.900 --> 36:10.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: But not only can I do this from my house, but you could do it from any other person's house or...
[36:10.580 --> 36:12.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but you can't do it from a payphone.
[36:13.140 --> 36:14.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: You can't do it from a payphone, correct?
[36:14.280 --> 36:16.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't do it from a payphone, you can't do it from a co-cut.
[36:16.520 --> 36:18.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: But you could do it from your house, you could do it from a hotel.
[36:19.420 --> 36:23.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Instead of paying for your phone calls when you check out, dial in direct, just do this.
[36:24.020 --> 36:26.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe make a third number call like this, charge it to anyone.
[36:27.200 --> 36:29.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or you could just, you know...
[36:29.300 --> 36:30.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, charge it to AT&T.
[36:30.560 --> 36:31.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do that, all right?
[36:31.260 --> 36:38.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: But don't charge it to poor people that will be all confused by weird numbers with a hotel as the originating number showing up.
[36:38.360 --> 36:38.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[36:39.460 --> 36:41.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right, well, thanks for that insight.
[36:41.620 --> 36:43.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Basically, it's the same insight.
[36:43.200 --> 36:46.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: We showed five years ago when that was happening then, too.
[36:46.620 --> 36:47.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: But let's move on.
[36:48.020 --> 36:48.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[36:48.380 --> 36:48.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[36:49.700 --> 36:49.920]  Hi.
[36:50.280 --> 36:50.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up, please.
[36:51.220 --> 36:52.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, how you doing?
[36:52.320 --> 36:52.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[36:52.940 --> 36:54.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's your address?
[36:54.460 --> 36:55.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: What's our address?
[36:55.500 --> 36:55.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of what?
[36:55.700 --> 36:56.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: The radio station?
[36:56.680 --> 36:57.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no.
[36:57.580 --> 36:59.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: The web address.
[36:59.940 --> 37:00.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ah.
[37:01.180 --> 37:02.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: For the Kevin Mitnick?
[37:02.760 --> 37:03.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, yes.
[37:03.300 --> 37:12.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: www.2600.com slash demo for the demonstration info, or www.freekevin.com for all the Mitnick information.
[37:12.740 --> 37:13.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, thanks.
[37:14.020 --> 37:14.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[37:14.380 --> 37:14.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good night.
[37:14.740 --> 37:14.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks.
[37:16.140 --> 37:20.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Actually, we give out that information over the air anyway, so we'll probably give it out before the show ends.
[37:21.060 --> 37:21.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[37:21.660 --> 37:21.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[37:21.880 --> 37:22.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[37:23.000 --> 37:24.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was at that demo.
[37:24.420 --> 37:24.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Were you?
[37:25.480 --> 37:26.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: I enjoyed it.
[37:26.580 --> 37:26.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah?
[37:27.040 --> 37:31.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: I enjoyed handing out flyers to the people who were dressed in suits.
[37:33.180 --> 37:34.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, that was definitely...
[37:34.420 --> 37:36.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: What kind of reaction did you get from those people?
[37:36.380 --> 37:39.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Quite often, what I got was, no bail.
[37:40.160 --> 37:41.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean, no bail?
[37:41.660 --> 37:42.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: No bail.
[37:42.100 --> 37:46.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then, because what I would say was, I held four years without bail and without a trial.
[37:47.340 --> 37:48.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: No bail, no bail hearing.
[37:49.140 --> 37:49.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Four years.
[37:49.860 --> 37:53.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: And people would pick up on that and go, how can somebody be held four years without a bail hearing?
[37:54.260 --> 37:55.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: They literally would say that.
[37:55.980 --> 38:02.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I found that interesting to see that they were at that level of information about something that's relatively esoteric.
[38:02.620 --> 38:04.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Can this happen in this country?
[38:05.220 --> 38:07.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was kind of what was being said a little bit of.
[38:07.440 --> 38:14.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then I was, what I was also doing was getting people to take the flyer by saying, pass it out back in the office.
[38:14.600 --> 38:15.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[38:15.460 --> 38:17.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: To the people who were dressed like they were coming from an office.
[38:17.700 --> 38:18.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that was good.
[38:18.520 --> 38:22.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: But what was really interesting was to be handing it to the obvious law enforcement personnel.
[38:23.700 --> 38:24.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was a kick.
[38:24.840 --> 38:27.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, there were these two guys there, I think, Porkchop, you saw them.
[38:27.260 --> 38:30.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: The two guys there that were so federal-looking.
[38:30.420 --> 38:31.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: There was nothing like it.
[38:31.480 --> 38:33.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think they made feds like that anymore.
[38:34.820 --> 38:36.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: What's the best way to describe them?
[38:36.220 --> 38:38.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, the sunglasses, obviously.
[38:38.340 --> 38:39.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the sunglasses were, of course, a mirror.
[38:40.180 --> 38:40.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Always mirror.
[38:41.440 --> 38:43.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: They were rather big, and they had the suits.
[38:44.660 --> 38:46.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: They didn't have any necks, did they?
[38:46.140 --> 38:48.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: What I noticed, too, yeah, I saw those two guys, I think.
[38:48.800 --> 38:50.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think I know the two guys you're talking about.
[38:50.380 --> 38:51.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: They were dressed in tight-fitting suits.
[38:52.720 --> 39:05.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: But what I tried to get these people to acknowledge was that he was being held in federal court, and that he, while he was accused of these things, he was held without bail before he was convicted.
[39:05.780 --> 39:07.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Held without bail and without a bail hearing.
[39:07.740 --> 39:09.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I was trying to use that to get him to take it.
[39:09.540 --> 39:11.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: What else was going on?
[39:11.820 --> 39:19.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Basically, though, there were people who would look twice at it, and then they'd see the banner on it where it said, Free Kevin.
[39:19.240 --> 39:22.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they'd go, first of all, the stereotypical, who's Kevin?
[39:22.020 --> 39:26.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then the next thing would be, what do you mean held without bail and without bailing hearings?
[39:27.000 --> 39:34.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: So there was a level of interest where people were curious about the relatively technical nature of what was going on in the case.
[39:34.560 --> 39:38.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I just found that very interesting, and I enjoyed being at the devil.
[39:38.480 --> 39:42.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: What I enjoyed, I think, the most was finding out that there were two courthouses.
[39:42.460 --> 39:42.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[39:43.220 --> 39:43.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[39:44.360 --> 39:45.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're sorry about that.
[39:45.480 --> 39:46.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: We sent people to the wrong address.
[39:47.120 --> 39:48.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, that's because that's what they told us.
[39:48.620 --> 39:53.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: They told us 500 Pearl Street and basically Foley Square.
[39:53.220 --> 39:54.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: We thought they were the same place, but they weren't.
[39:54.840 --> 39:56.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: But people figured it out in the end.
[39:56.100 --> 39:58.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: We went to get people occasionally, and sometimes it happened.
[39:58.880 --> 40:13.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And what I also noticed, and we might use this for future actions, was that the instant that you folks broke out the boom microphone in the video cam, that's when everybody started slowing down as they were walking by standing on the sidewalk.
[40:13.660 --> 40:24.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was something I was noticing very, very carefully, was that everything changed when it appeared as though, quote-unquote, conventional media were on the scene, even though it was us doing it.
[40:24.440 --> 40:27.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, whoever was running the video cam.
[40:28.200 --> 40:31.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: But still, that's what shifted a lot of people's perception.
[40:31.420 --> 40:34.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then the crowd started being drawn by the sidewalk.
[40:34.720 --> 40:41.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, of course, nobody was up on a soapbox giving their view of the case, but it was very interesting because then people were noticing, and then they had stopped.
[40:41.520 --> 40:45.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's when we jumped on them and handed them a flyer and said, hey, check it out.
[40:45.680 --> 40:46.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, let me tell you something.
[40:46.260 --> 40:48.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you ever want to impress people, get a boom microphone.
[40:48.520 --> 40:49.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: It works every time.
[40:49.980 --> 40:49.980]  It doesn't it?
[40:49.980 --> 40:50.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean...
[40:50.420 --> 40:51.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: You don't even have to have a camera.
[40:51.460 --> 40:53.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just have a boom mic and point it out.
[40:53.560 --> 40:53.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: The mic does it.
[40:53.700 --> 40:55.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: And all of a sudden, people treat you with respect.
[40:55.620 --> 40:57.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and the guy was holding the mic up over the head.
[40:57.700 --> 40:58.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it looked very professional.
[40:59.160 --> 41:01.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And people were walking by, oh, look, Channel 4 News.
[41:01.380 --> 41:01.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, boy.
[41:02.780 --> 41:05.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: But all in all, I just wanted to say thanks for putting that together.
[41:06.180 --> 41:07.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for having those flyers out.
[41:07.520 --> 41:08.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: How many do you think we handed out?
[41:08.800 --> 41:09.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: 3,000.
[41:09.280 --> 41:12.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: I know, because we made three runs for 1,000 copies each.
[41:12.900 --> 41:13.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[41:13.380 --> 41:16.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Did you find when you were handing them out that very many people knew who Kevin was?
[41:16.700 --> 41:17.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Or did any people know who Kevin was?
[41:18.600 --> 41:19.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Only two, and that was...
[41:19.820 --> 41:20.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, really?
[41:20.280 --> 41:23.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know how we got the rush out of the courthouse when they were coming down the channel there?
[41:23.820 --> 41:24.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[41:24.620 --> 41:28.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: And where, you know, just the whole court unloaded, and that's when we handed out a whole bunch.
[41:28.360 --> 41:29.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was like 4, 4.30, something like that?
[41:30.220 --> 41:30.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[41:31.680 --> 41:33.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's when I found I was getting the most...
[41:34.020 --> 41:37.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: As they were walking away, they'd be a step or two away and go, oh, I heard about this mint that guy.
[41:37.400 --> 41:41.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, where they probably heard about it was in all these inaccurate reports.
[41:41.460 --> 41:44.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: But nonetheless, they did know of the man, and they knew about the case.
[41:44.760 --> 41:45.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that was a step forward.
[41:45.740 --> 41:50.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, as long as it got them to think a little bit and got them to talk about it at the water cooler on Monday or whatever.
[41:51.320 --> 42:00.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what was really interesting was in leaving the demo, as things were winding down, I was especially keen on looking around to see if there were a whole bunch of flyers that were trashed.
[42:01.060 --> 42:01.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[42:01.700 --> 42:02.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: There weren't.
[42:02.220 --> 42:02.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[42:03.080 --> 42:03.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, we were pretty...
[42:03.640 --> 42:04.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: I found that very interesting.
[42:04.520 --> 42:09.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: We were pretty careful to make sure that none of them ended up on the ground, but I don't think very many people threw them on the ground.
[42:09.220 --> 42:10.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know, I didn't pick up any.
[42:10.380 --> 42:10.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[42:10.740 --> 42:14.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: And only as I hit the subway did I see some in a bike basket.
[42:15.100 --> 42:15.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[42:15.340 --> 42:17.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, as people were headed down to the subway, there were like three of them.
[42:17.820 --> 42:18.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[42:18.080 --> 42:24.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, literally, I was looking all over the street as I was walking back to the subway, and no flyers were anywhere.
[42:25.060 --> 42:26.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that very interesting.
[42:26.280 --> 42:29.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: We found the same thing also at the Miramax protest last year.
[42:29.940 --> 42:30.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're right.
[42:30.520 --> 42:35.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we found the same thing outside theaters when we were talking about the takedown film both in New York and Hollywood.
[42:36.580 --> 42:42.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: People are generally interested and receptive to what it is we're saying, and they're interested in hearing more.
[42:42.360 --> 42:56.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that's something that the federal government has to listen to, the fact that, you know, the people themselves, people themselves think this is wrong, and come on already, let's end this nightmare, and let's see what, you know, what we can do for the future to make sure this never happens again.
[42:56.660 --> 43:02.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and then just for your listeners, it was interesting looking at the report by that guy Kevin Polson on ZDNet.
[43:02.380 --> 43:03.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, who got off bail.
[43:03.540 --> 43:05.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sorry, got off probation the day before.
[43:05.500 --> 43:05.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[43:05.880 --> 43:06.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was very happy.
[43:06.800 --> 43:09.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: He showed up at the San Francisco meeting and San Francisco demonstration.
[43:09.620 --> 43:13.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: So we're glad he's completely free of the federal clutches now.
[43:13.940 --> 43:14.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[43:14.240 --> 43:18.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: What I was going to mention was the talkback section that's attached to his article.
[43:18.620 --> 43:19.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[43:19.120 --> 43:28.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: And just reading through that is very interesting, because as people are pointing out, some people claim, hey, who are you, yokels, the guy's a criminal, he belongs in jail, yada, yada, yada.
[43:28.560 --> 43:40.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: What was interesting was to see the responses of people who then wrote to the forum saying, while he may be a criminal, the crimes he's accused of are one thing, his treatment is entirely another thing.
[43:40.300 --> 43:48.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they say, I read one thing where the person was saying that it's not somebody who is a, I don't know, what do they say?
[43:48.660 --> 43:56.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was some word they used where they, it's not so much that he's a great guy, but the fact of the matter is, is that if he's accused of a crime, that's one thing, but why not a bail hearing?
[43:56.580 --> 43:58.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why aren't they giving him evidence?
[43:58.400 --> 43:58.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Mm-hmm.
[43:58.900 --> 43:59.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's all the kind of...
[43:59.960 --> 44:10.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: And how about the evidence that was uncovered as far as the hundreds of millions of dollars claimed in damages, where we were asking some very legitimate questions, well, let's see some documentation, how come it was never released to the stockholders,
[44:10.800 --> 44:22.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: et cetera, et cetera, and the federal government's response was to simply put a lid on it, not put any more information out until sentencing day, when Kevin will have absolutely no chance to defend himself against whatever craziness they come out with.
[44:22.700 --> 44:28.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that tells us something, the fact that they got so angry and nervous when that information was revealed.
[44:28.020 --> 44:29.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Maybe it's all a big fat lie.
[44:29.960 --> 44:40.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what I'm really curious about saying is, I remember reading on 2600.com that there were questions being raised of the SEC, and I'm really curious to see what they have to say.
[44:41.000 --> 44:41.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[44:41.440 --> 44:42.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'd like to see that, too.
[44:42.720 --> 44:43.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, thanks.
[44:43.140 --> 44:43.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Take some more calls.
[44:43.940 --> 44:44.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[44:44.340 --> 44:44.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks for calling.
[44:44.900 --> 44:45.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks for showing up.
[44:45.780 --> 44:45.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Bye.
[44:46.340 --> 44:46.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[44:46.840 --> 44:48.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's something wrong with that line.
[44:49.340 --> 44:49.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[44:49.940 --> 44:50.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: There we go.
[44:50.420 --> 44:50.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[44:50.740 --> 44:51.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[44:51.560 --> 44:52.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, Emmanuel.
[44:52.400 --> 44:53.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's Tommy Pickles.
[44:53.700 --> 44:54.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[44:54.260 --> 44:57.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: From that entertainment network that you both know of.
[44:57.080 --> 44:58.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ah, yes, yes.
[44:58.960 --> 45:01.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I don't believe they were at the demonstration, though, were they?
[45:01.520 --> 45:02.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: They weren't at the demonstration?
[45:02.760 --> 45:03.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, they were not.
[45:03.640 --> 45:05.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's what the question I was going to ask.
[45:05.160 --> 45:05.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[45:05.360 --> 45:08.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: I called, you know, the newswoman that we both know.
[45:08.640 --> 45:08.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mm-hmm.
[45:08.860 --> 45:10.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: That gave us the presents, me and pork chop.
[45:11.040 --> 45:11.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[45:12.300 --> 45:20.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he said, oh, thanks for the info, but I thought she was going to come down with the camera, and I guess she didn't, which is a shame, because I would like to see that clip also.
[45:20.380 --> 45:21.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Too bad, you know.
[45:21.460 --> 45:21.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[45:21.760 --> 45:23.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're going to have to wait for the next trial.
[45:23.460 --> 45:23.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[45:23.620 --> 45:23.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[45:23.780 --> 45:24.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: The next demonstration.
[45:25.300 --> 45:26.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I'll tell you something about media.
[45:26.980 --> 45:30.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Media people just basically, you know, they have priorities.
[45:31.300 --> 45:33.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, well, that's too bad.
[45:33.060 --> 45:38.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I keep her filled in with all the updates and stuff like that, because of course she's so busy with the music and the entertainment.
[45:39.140 --> 45:39.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[45:39.460 --> 45:43.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: I keep her busy with the hacker, the freaker news and stuff like that.
[45:43.520 --> 45:43.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[45:43.680 --> 45:45.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm very happy WBAI showed up, though.
[45:45.100 --> 45:45.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm very happy that...
[45:45.960 --> 45:46.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, that's good.
[45:46.360 --> 45:48.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they did a good piece on it.
[45:48.280 --> 45:48.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[45:48.600 --> 45:49.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: One of the better pieces I've heard.
[45:50.080 --> 45:50.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, it's...
[45:50.940 --> 45:53.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: Did you hear anything about the SummerCon people?
[45:54.500 --> 45:55.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: I heard...
[45:55.300 --> 45:56.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have an update from Atlanta.
[45:57.100 --> 45:57.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[45:57.640 --> 46:00.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you hang on a moment, I'll find it.
[46:00.620 --> 46:00.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yep.
[46:01.600 --> 46:03.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: So say something else while I'm trying to find it.
[46:03.840 --> 46:05.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, they were supposed to have a good one, you know.
[46:07.080 --> 46:11.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: Especially since they were putting it on their website, and it was supposedly a convention going down there.
[46:11.640 --> 46:12.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[46:12.380 --> 46:12.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, SummerCon.
[46:12.660 --> 46:14.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wonder how well they did down there.
[46:14.600 --> 46:18.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: SummerCon was the convention, and that did actually take place.
[46:19.040 --> 46:20.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Since you're stretching for coverage here.
[46:20.940 --> 46:21.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, go ahead.
[46:21.480 --> 46:24.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you a little funny thing about a boom mic going way back to that.
[46:24.580 --> 46:25.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: I found it, by the way.
[46:25.420 --> 46:25.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Go ahead.
[46:25.840 --> 46:26.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[46:26.260 --> 46:27.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'll finish up.
[46:27.420 --> 46:28.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's the funny thing.
[46:28.800 --> 46:30.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe we should all buy boom mics now.
[46:30.820 --> 46:30.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[46:31.140 --> 46:32.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you're going to go have another...
[46:32.540 --> 46:34.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: All the media in the world...
[46:34.220 --> 46:36.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, another thing I've ever pointed at you.
[46:36.260 --> 46:36.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[46:36.440 --> 46:37.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: One at a time, guys.
[46:37.360 --> 46:38.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, sorry.
[46:39.200 --> 46:45.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're in the middle of a horde of media and you do not want a camera pointed at you, all you have to do is carry a boom mic and you will not be caught in the cameras.
[46:45.700 --> 46:46.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's right.
[46:46.340 --> 46:46.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's right.
[46:46.680 --> 46:48.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: They'd hate seeing boom mics in coverage.
[46:49.080 --> 46:49.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not right.
[46:49.700 --> 46:50.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: The action that camera operators have.
[46:51.180 --> 46:51.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[46:51.560 --> 46:52.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Here we go.
[46:52.200 --> 46:53.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Here's the report from Atlanta.
[46:53.260 --> 46:55.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: The free Kevin demo went fine in Atlanta, Georgia.
[46:55.220 --> 46:57.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: We got the stickers and pins just in time.
[46:57.320 --> 46:59.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: We sent stickers and pins to all the demonstrations.
[46:59.800 --> 47:01.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: So that sort of worked out very nicely.
[47:01.840 --> 47:03.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Then made our way up to the courthouse.
[47:04.080 --> 47:07.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Most of our turnout was due to the fact that SummerCon was going on in Atlanta that weekend.
[47:07.940 --> 47:09.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: We handed out many flyers.
[47:09.340 --> 47:12.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: A good amount of the passing traffic would honk or wave, but at minimum, look.
[47:13.100 --> 47:14.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: The police were very casual.
[47:14.740 --> 47:16.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: They only asked us to stand in front of some barriers.
[47:16.980 --> 47:19.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: They got some flyers from us to put in their reports.
[47:19.200 --> 47:22.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Evidently, they have to file reports on any protests in front of federal buildings.
[47:23.400 --> 47:25.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: CNN showed up and they interviewed us.
[47:25.540 --> 47:26.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're very positive.
[47:26.560 --> 47:28.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not sure if we'll make the error, though.
[47:28.240 --> 47:33.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: The correspondent told me that the footage was not for headline news that day, but it was going to be edited for a sidebar story.
[47:33.660 --> 47:35.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: So who knows when that's going to pop up.
[47:35.820 --> 47:37.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: I am not sure how that will turn out.
[47:38.100 --> 47:43.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: One thing of note about the demo, we found that people in suits were much less likely to take a flyer.
[47:43.820 --> 47:46.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Everyone would ask what it was about, but suits would not take the flyers.
[47:47.180 --> 47:51.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: The minorities were the most likely to take a flyer and ask questions about the demonstration.
[47:51.840 --> 47:55.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, there was one African-American female that put a free Kevin sticker right on her car.
[47:55.920 --> 48:00.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: At the demonstration, we talked about how interesting it would be if the black community took up the cause of Kevin Mitnick.
[48:01.200 --> 48:06.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: I doubt we'll hear much from Al Sharpton on the issue, but at least we were able to find an audience and demographic outside of what we expected.
[48:07.000 --> 48:11.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you know, that is true, and I think you have to ask yourself why.
[48:11.260 --> 48:11.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Why is that true?
[48:12.240 --> 48:27.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think when you have a sense of injustice, when you have a sense of what the system is really capable of, you tend to be a lot more open to other cases, other instances of injustice, other people that may have gotten the raw end of the deal.
[48:27.540 --> 48:38.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: And hopefully, that won't be lost on hackers as well, because we certainly are getting the short end of the stick on this and many other cases where people are being locked away for years.
[48:38.860 --> 48:42.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: We've been covering it here on this radio station, on this program, since 1988.
[48:42.880 --> 48:48.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I have to say, 11 years later, we're no further along in the justice field.
[48:48.620 --> 48:56.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're certainly further along technically, we're certainly further along as a community, but the same lousy things are still happening, and far worse, in fact.
[48:57.660 --> 49:06.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Alright, well, thanks for all the info, and I'm sorry for the lack of media, of course, but that'll improve as we close here.
[49:08.020 --> 49:11.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, I'll just keep on passing the word, and I'll see you at the next meeting.
[49:12.240 --> 49:13.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[49:14.300 --> 49:15.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's take another call.
[49:15.240 --> 49:15.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[49:16.520 --> 49:17.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello, Emmanuel.
[49:17.580 --> 49:19.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is Telefreak, the kid on the skateboard.
[49:19.980 --> 49:21.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, you know, you did us so much good.
[49:21.900 --> 49:24.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're the guy that handed out more flyers than I think anybody put together.
[49:24.800 --> 49:25.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, thanks.
[49:25.780 --> 49:27.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you for showing up and for doing all that.
[49:27.500 --> 49:28.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, no problem.
[49:28.140 --> 49:28.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anything for Kevin.
[49:28.980 --> 49:32.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, he's... I suppose he might do the same for me, so...
[49:32.860 --> 49:33.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I think he would.
[49:33.720 --> 49:34.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think he definitely would.
[49:35.060 --> 49:43.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: A friend of mine, Shea Guareva, I can't really pronounce the second name, but he said that he did see the Free Kevin over Central Park.
[49:43.460 --> 49:44.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: He was sitting on his roof, and he said he saw that.
[49:45.060 --> 49:46.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, actually, he was in Brooklyn.
[49:46.320 --> 49:47.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: I got the email from him.
[49:47.020 --> 49:49.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was in Brooklyn, and he said they saw two letters of it.
[49:49.220 --> 49:49.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh.
[49:49.420 --> 49:52.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: What I want to know is, does anybody see the words Free Kevin?
[49:52.640 --> 49:57.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's all I want to know, because if not, we can maybe arrange to have a makeup done on that.
[49:58.760 --> 50:04.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because it was kind of... it was a clear day up to a point, then it got kind of windy and cloudy right about the time we wanted to do that, so...
[50:04.560 --> 50:04.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[50:04.920 --> 50:09.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, of all the things not to have worked out, that's the thing I really care about the least.
[50:09.840 --> 50:11.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: We wanted to make sure people showed up.
[50:11.360 --> 50:13.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: We wanted to make sure that the message got out.
[50:13.360 --> 50:14.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: The reception was good.
[50:14.300 --> 50:15.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: We weren't harassed.
[50:15.400 --> 50:16.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: All of that happened.
[50:16.380 --> 50:19.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: It made a big difference, and I know Kevin's very happy about it.
[50:20.300 --> 50:22.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: In Los Angeles, I believe...
[50:22.000 --> 50:23.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have to find the Los Angeles report.
[50:23.960 --> 50:26.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm almost certain that Kevin's father showed up there.
[50:26.780 --> 50:30.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: I know in Las Vegas, Kevin's grandmother showed up to the demonstration there.
[50:30.820 --> 50:31.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Wonderful.
[50:31.120 --> 50:35.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, and that means so much, just knowing that...
[50:35.100 --> 50:36.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, Kevin's father was there.
[50:36.640 --> 50:38.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, here's the report from Los Angeles.
[50:38.360 --> 50:43.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: We got started a little late, and with a small group, it wound up with about 12 or 13 people, including Kevin's dad.
[50:44.740 --> 50:51.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: As soon as we set up three LAPD types pulled up to babysit us, I approached them and gave them a flyer, which, surprisingly, they took.
[50:52.640 --> 51:00.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: There wasn't a hell of a lot of foot traffic, so we didn't hand out all of our flyers, but the plane with the free Kevin banner was a definite plus.
[51:03.260 --> 51:05.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's pretty much it from LA.
[51:06.140 --> 51:06.180]  Yeah.
[51:06.180 --> 51:09.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: A couple things on some of the people I was saying that flyers to.
[51:10.140 --> 51:21.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Many people, especially the police officers, and like the person from San Francisco, I believe, said, the minorities also, they tend to take a look at it more often than regular people.
[51:22.220 --> 51:24.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: And also...
[51:24.780 --> 51:25.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Even cab drivers.
[51:25.560 --> 51:27.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, we had a cab driver put free Kevin over the word taxi.
[51:27.860 --> 51:28.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I saw the picture.
[51:28.940 --> 51:29.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: That was pretty cool.
[51:30.300 --> 51:30.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[51:31.240 --> 51:31.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um...
[51:31.600 --> 51:32.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[51:32.120 --> 51:32.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: What else?
[51:33.500 --> 51:36.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: There was one flyer I handed out, me and Seuss.
[51:37.500 --> 51:39.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: We drifted off, like maybe a block or two away.
[51:39.660 --> 51:43.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we handed out a flyer to a lady, and she was like, Oh, Kevin Mitnick.
[51:43.200 --> 51:44.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I was like, yes, you heard about the case.
[51:44.420 --> 51:48.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: And she was like, yeah, I'm probably the one you most hate, or something like that.
[51:48.520 --> 51:51.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that kind of struck me oddly.
[51:51.520 --> 51:52.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: She walked away too fast from me.
[51:52.940 --> 51:54.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: What do you think she meant by that?
[51:54.420 --> 51:57.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm assuming she's some kind of lawyer who hates Kevin or something.
[51:57.320 --> 51:57.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hmm.
[51:58.100 --> 51:58.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: But...
[51:58.580 --> 52:00.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: But she left with the flyer, right?
[52:00.120 --> 52:00.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, she did.
[52:00.980 --> 52:01.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[52:01.260 --> 52:06.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: But she walked away without answering a yes or who she was exactly, and she just walked away quickly.
[52:07.020 --> 52:07.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[52:07.880 --> 52:10.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Besides that, everything went great on Friday.
[52:10.800 --> 52:15.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, hopefully, Kevin will be released and everything will be going good.
[52:16.040 --> 52:16.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[52:16.740 --> 52:17.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[52:17.120 --> 52:18.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks so much for being a part of it.
[52:19.080 --> 52:19.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[52:19.480 --> 52:19.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[52:19.900 --> 52:22.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: We have this report from Maine.
[52:22.680 --> 52:23.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's right.
[52:23.320 --> 52:25.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Maine, the state up north.
[52:25.220 --> 52:25.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Jeff.
[52:27.120 --> 52:27.480]  Um...
[52:27.480 --> 52:28.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you know what?
[52:28.200 --> 52:29.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: I just lost it.
[52:29.740 --> 52:30.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ah, here we go.
[52:30.620 --> 52:32.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, the Maine Free Kevin demonstration went well.
[52:33.780 --> 52:34.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Almost without incident.
[52:36.120 --> 52:36.480]  Um...
[52:36.480 --> 52:40.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was putting up, as from the coordinator, I was pulling up flyers and lampposts, et cetera.
[52:40.660 --> 52:43.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: On my way back, the first of my fellow demonstrators arrived.
[52:43.360 --> 52:44.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, we set up his video camera.
[52:44.860 --> 52:46.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Unfortunately, the first tape got eaten.
[52:46.420 --> 52:47.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Isn't that always the way?
[52:47.680 --> 52:52.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, by the way, if you were at a meeting and you have video footage, please send, uh, send us a copy of it.
[52:52.520 --> 52:57.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Try to send us as good a copy as possible because, uh, we would like to consider it for inclusion in the, uh, documentary we're making.
[52:58.440 --> 53:00.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, we, uh, later got another tape.
[53:00.640 --> 53:01.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: That one was not eaten, presumably.
[53:02.920 --> 53:06.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, during the course of the demonstration, we distributed 380 flyers.
[53:06.420 --> 53:07.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that's, that's pretty good.
[53:07.900 --> 53:09.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Maine is not that big, after all.
[53:10.500 --> 53:14.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, the only incident was when I was returning from the poster hanging.
[53:14.340 --> 53:17.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was approached by a man, plain clothes.
[53:17.540 --> 53:18.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: He asked for a flyer.
[53:18.980 --> 53:20.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: I began giving our normal spiel.
[53:21.100 --> 53:23.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: He asked how many of us will be demonstrating today.
[53:23.400 --> 53:24.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I replied, eight.
[53:24.700 --> 53:29.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: He then turned and yelled to a police cruiser across the way, Hey, Kevin, we got eight.
[53:29.780 --> 53:30.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, Kevin?
[53:31.820 --> 53:33.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll bet he wanted a sticker, too.
[53:33.640 --> 53:37.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, I thought this was a little strange, but didn't worry about it because we weren't doing anything wrong.
[53:38.280 --> 53:40.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: A few minutes later, the same man came back wearing a U.S.
[53:40.900 --> 53:41.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Marshall jacket.
[53:41.840 --> 53:42.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: I thought this was interesting.
[53:42.840 --> 53:44.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: We talked for about 45 minutes.
[53:44.120 --> 53:44.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was a nice guy.
[53:44.960 --> 53:46.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think, uh, truly interested in our cause.
[53:46.780 --> 53:48.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: He then realized we had video of him.
[53:48.380 --> 53:49.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: So we watched the video again.
[53:50.420 --> 53:53.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we got about 15 seconds of him digging in his nose with his finger.
[53:54.280 --> 53:55.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's what got Bernie S.
[53:55.480 --> 53:55.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: in prison.
[53:56.220 --> 53:57.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not talking like a scratch.
[53:57.600 --> 53:58.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was really digging there.
[53:59.420 --> 54:00.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Too bad he was a nice guy.
[54:01.200 --> 54:05.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: If he wasn't, I would, uh, distribute it on the net with the text or text dollars at work.
[54:05.380 --> 54:08.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, anyway, that's, uh, that's what happened over in Maine.
[54:08.700 --> 54:10.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Pretty good, uh, pretty good showing there.
[54:11.140 --> 54:12.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's, uh, take another call.
[54:12.720 --> 54:13.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[54:13.200 --> 54:13.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[54:14.860 --> 54:15.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel Goldstein.
[54:15.720 --> 54:16.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, how are you doing?
[54:16.560 --> 54:17.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's been a long time.
[54:17.600 --> 54:18.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: How are you doing?
[54:18.240 --> 54:18.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Pretty good.
[54:18.640 --> 54:19.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: How have you been?
[54:19.560 --> 54:23.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, uh, for the last three weeks, I've been home with a nervous breakdown.
[54:23.960 --> 54:25.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, it keeps repeating.
[54:25.980 --> 54:27.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Insomnia, loss of appetite.
[54:27.920 --> 54:30.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: I go through the first stage to pet the Book of the Dead.
[54:31.500 --> 54:31.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[54:31.920 --> 54:33.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that would do it.
[54:33.180 --> 54:33.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm getting better.
[54:33.920 --> 54:35.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, you know, I'm, I'm resilient.
[54:35.460 --> 54:38.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: I keep, uh, bouncing back for some karmic reason.
[54:38.900 --> 54:39.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just two brief things.
[54:39.800 --> 54:41.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because I know you're getting close to going off.
[54:41.780 --> 54:42.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[54:42.220 --> 54:46.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, I obviously wasn't at a demonstration because I'm not in the crowds.
[54:46.540 --> 54:49.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I can't even make eye contact with people on the street.
[54:49.200 --> 54:51.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm so, like, weird and paranoid.
[54:51.460 --> 55:03.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I must congratulate you for, um, having the courage and balls to, you know, stand up for your convictions and to, to go in the face of, uh, you know, the fascist tide.
[55:03.900 --> 55:07.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, I wanted to give you a big kudos from the Bronx.
[55:07.440 --> 55:11.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the second thing is, um, I know you're making the documentary.
[55:11.800 --> 55:17.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Believe it or not, I'm also going to be featured in a movie along with Monroe about B.A.I.
[55:17.640 --> 55:19.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: And can I just announce its world premiere?
[55:19.520 --> 55:20.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Go right ahead.
[55:20.900 --> 55:21.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Monroe is in a film?
[55:21.920 --> 55:23.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, it's called Airtime Rights.
[55:23.740 --> 55:27.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's done by a British NYU film student called Stephen Hutchinson.
[55:27.960 --> 55:28.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[55:28.480 --> 55:34.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it's going to air, um, next Friday night, June 18th at 7 p.m.
[55:35.340 --> 55:42.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: at the Tishman Auditorium of the New School, which for people who don't know is on 12th Street between 5th and 6th Avenue.
[55:43.040 --> 55:49.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they're going to show that film again called Airtime Rights, along with other NYU students films.
[55:50.340 --> 55:51.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Monroe will be there.
[55:52.040 --> 55:54.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bob Fisk from WBAI will be there.
[55:54.820 --> 56:01.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if I'm not too crazy, and hopefully with the right pharmaceutical help, I'll be there.
[56:01.960 --> 56:02.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: So...
[56:02.320 --> 56:03.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: But you can at least stand outside and...
[56:04.080 --> 56:04.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: What's that?
[56:04.720 --> 56:05.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: ...greet people as they walk by.
[56:05.800 --> 56:10.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's like it's a 20-minute film, and my name, for people who don't know, my first name is Mark.
[56:10.800 --> 56:21.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm featured for five minutes, and the rest of the 20 minutes is about Monroe and people's reaction to him and his mishugas and that kind of stuff.
[56:21.520 --> 56:26.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm thinking it might be a good double feature along with your documentary on Kevin Sunday, but who knows?
[56:26.620 --> 56:28.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, except ours won't be done anywhere near Sunday, but...
[56:28.900 --> 56:29.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no.
[56:29.300 --> 56:30.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is a week from Friday.
[56:30.540 --> 56:31.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, even then.
[56:31.120 --> 56:31.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[56:31.900 --> 56:32.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Whatever happened...
[56:32.940 --> 56:33.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: ...a ways longer.
[56:34.080 --> 56:34.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's fiber optic.
[56:35.080 --> 56:35.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I really miss him.
[56:35.940 --> 56:37.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Last I heard, he's doing pretty good.
[56:37.400 --> 56:39.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: I still have that goatee and that slick hair.
[56:40.320 --> 56:41.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: That I'm not sure.
[56:41.180 --> 56:42.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: You probably have to ask the feds about that.
[56:42.320 --> 56:49.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, but again, I mean, I was there with you in spirit, and you guys keep making trouble, but keep it safe, okay?
[56:49.520 --> 56:49.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[56:50.020 --> 56:52.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, thanks for the good thoughts.
[56:52.960 --> 56:53.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: You got it.
[56:53.300 --> 56:53.480]  [SPEAKER_20]: Bye-bye.
[56:53.620 --> 56:53.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[56:54.580 --> 56:56.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that's going to do it for us tonight.
[56:56.020 --> 56:59.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: Again, thanks very much to everybody who showed up who was a part of this throughout the world.
[56:59.400 --> 57:01.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: It really did make a big difference.
[57:01.560 --> 57:05.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: The next stop on our journey is Monday, Monday, June 14th, sentencing.
[57:06.440 --> 57:09.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: Keep checking www.2600.com.
[57:09.380 --> 57:16.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: We'll try to keep you updated over there as far as how that goes, when it happens, and we'll find out just what, if any, effect the demonstrations had.
[57:16.960 --> 57:20.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: If it goes badly, then we don't give up.
[57:20.360 --> 57:21.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: We keep going.
[57:21.200 --> 57:26.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: We keep figuring out ways to keep the pressure on, and you'll hear about it here on Off The Hook.
[57:26.400 --> 57:28.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Until next week, it's Emmanuel Goldstein.
[57:28.420 --> 57:28.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Have a good night.