Off The Hook - 1999-08-24

[00:01.950 --> 00:06.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...to directly in contact with everybody you've heard on the show.
[00:07.330 --> 00:15.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Guys, you know, gentlemen, John DeCamp, ex-state senator, 16 years, defense attorney in Nebraska, thank you so much.
[00:15.350 --> 00:15.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, sir.
[00:16.010 --> 00:20.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Ted Gunderson, 27-year veteran FBI agent, thank you.
[00:20.170 --> 00:25.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Barbara Hartwell, thank you for just being who you are.
[00:25.290 --> 00:26.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're a terrific person.
[00:26.590 --> 00:26.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[00:27.490 --> 00:39.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: And ladies and gentlemen, before I go, again, I'm going to just announce that I've received a lot of inquiries across the country from people who want me to examine their arrest cases involving informants and drugs, etc.
[00:39.570 --> 00:52.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've decided to take on just a few cases on a very selective basis, not giving you legal expertise, but my expertise as an insider and a court-qualified expert witness for 35 years.
[00:52.130 --> 00:54.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because I do have attorneys that I recommend.
[00:54.670 --> 00:59.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if you want to reach me, you can call 212-209-2970.
[01:00.510 --> 01:05.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: And once again, the fact-based novel, Triangle of Death, está disponible donde quiera.
[01:05.990 --> 01:07.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's available for everybody.
[01:07.910 --> 01:10.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hasta la próxima, mi gente, mi gente favorita.
[01:34.120 --> 01:36.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's 8 o'clock.
[01:36.320 --> 01:39.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:40.000 --> 01:42.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Time now for Off the Hook.
[01:49.250 --> 02:11.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Bumdiddly Bum But I best expect the worst I hope that's understood Bumdiddly Bum
[03:38.170 --> 03:38.800]  And a
[04:08.530 --> 04:14.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: good evening to everybody.
[04:14.810 --> 04:15.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: The program is Off the Hook.
[04:15.570 --> 04:17.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Tuesday night.
[04:17.290 --> 04:31.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: As we do every week, and we have all kinds of updates on the fight for liberty in the cyber age, and Preview of the new millennium, and all kinds of fun things like that.
[04:32.710 --> 04:38.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we'll try to take more phone calls this week, as we didn't take any last week, because we had so many things to talk about.
[04:40.530 --> 04:42.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: But this week we have a couple of updates.
[04:44.310 --> 04:49.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: First and foremost, the Kevin Mitnick case, which we said was over a couple of weeks ago.
[04:49.990 --> 04:51.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obviously, it's not quite over.
[04:51.990 --> 04:54.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because the injustice just keeps going on.
[04:54.310 --> 05:06.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: As we reported, Kevin Mitnick was transferred to A maximum security county prison As part of What can only be seen as retribution of some sort Not part of his sentencing.
[05:07.010 --> 05:09.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was not supposed to be sent to a place like that.
[05:09.310 --> 05:23.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: But he has been sent there, and In What can only be described as Shocking callousness He has been denied Kosher food, which Is part of his religious beliefs.
[05:23.710 --> 05:27.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's also against the Constitution to Deny a prisoner then.
[05:27.490 --> 05:28.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they've done it anyway.
[05:29.410 --> 05:30.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: A motion was filed last Monday.
[05:30.790 --> 05:33.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: We were hoping for A ruling on Tuesday.
[05:33.610 --> 05:34.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which, actually, there was a ruling.
[05:35.670 --> 05:39.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: The ruling was Was last week.
[05:40.390 --> 05:46.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Judge Foutzer denied A defense motion to have Kevin stay at a prison where He will have access to kosher food.
[05:48.530 --> 05:54.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so doing Judge Foutzer is denying Kevin's legal right to follow his religious beliefs While in custody.
[05:55.270 --> 05:58.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: And moreover, she apparently This is from the Kevin Mitnick website.
[05:58.450 --> 06:10.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: She apparently prefers to have taxpayers pay for litigation On the matter Of whether Kevin should be allowed To have kosher food In accordance with his religion Then agree to the defense's motion And allow Kevin to stay At another institution temporarily.
[06:11.110 --> 06:19.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: No reason has been given for this denial But Based on the judge's rulings and words In past court hearings We're not entirely surprised To see her absence of concern With civil rights.
[06:22.150 --> 06:22.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unbelievable.
[06:23.010 --> 06:24.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just Keeps happening.
[06:25.130 --> 06:29.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know It's the kind of thing Where they could just one day Chop off one of his limbs And say Hey, so what?
[06:30.010 --> 06:30.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: What?
[06:30.270 --> 06:31.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: That someone has a problem with this?
[06:31.550 --> 06:57.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you know Nobody would come forward and speak up ACLU wouldn't say anything And all these so-called civil rights groups They'll just They'll just let it happen But we're going to keep raising our voices And hopefully somebody will notice I mean, you know Denying someone their religious rights The right to observe certain things Which We've already established this U.S.
[06:57.270 --> 07:19.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Supreme Court Has already said That they have to do this But Maybe there's a big asterisk In that ruling Except for Kevin Mitnick Yeah, it doesn't matter for him Anyway, we have a new address for Kevin Because everything he sent to the old address Is not going to make it to him And there's no guarantee That he won't be transferred someplace else Before the end of the hour We don't know It's Living
[07:19.390 --> 07:52.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: in limbo Which is the way they like it His new address Kevin Mitnick And this number that follows his name Is extremely important So make sure that you get it right 990-830-0580 I'll say that again 990-830-0580 And that's the Central Detention Center Central Detention Center 630 East Rialto Avenue That's spelled R-I-A-L-T-O
[08:04.970 --> 08:07.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's really an incredible situation.
[08:09.310 --> 08:20.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was basically just yanked from the place he's been spending the last four and a half years, which is definitely not like home, but it's the closest thing he had.
[08:20.410 --> 08:33.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And with no warning, no chance to get any of his materials, legal materials, anything, and just thrown into this maximum security county prison with a bunch of other federal inmates.
[08:35.310 --> 08:39.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sixty people, one room, one toilet, one shower, no partitions.
[08:40.090 --> 08:40.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's barbaric.
[08:40.910 --> 08:42.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just unbelievable the things that they're doing to people.
[08:44.070 --> 08:56.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: You would think that at least, you know, if we're going to act like barbarians and go back to the Stone Ages, we'd only subject the people that society deems as worthy of real suffering.
[08:56.770 --> 09:00.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, people who go around murdering people and things like that.
[09:00.950 --> 09:01.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, nasty people.
[09:01.890 --> 09:02.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: But no, anybody.
[09:02.810 --> 09:04.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anybody who's in prison, this can happen to you.
[09:05.090 --> 09:06.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: No matter what the crime.
[09:07.730 --> 09:11.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Kevin's crime, of course, is looking at software he wasn't supposed to look at.
[09:13.790 --> 09:15.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And not coming when he was called.
[09:17.830 --> 09:18.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Various things like that.
[09:18.970 --> 09:24.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, of course, we have, as we mentioned last week, Kevin's prosecutor has gone on to private practice.
[09:25.490 --> 09:26.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which happens quite a bit.
[09:27.990 --> 09:34.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: After a well-publicized and successful case, federal prosecutors tend to move on to bigger and better things.
[09:34.270 --> 09:37.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, David Schindler had some things to say on his way out.
[09:37.830 --> 09:38.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Things to say about Kevin.
[09:41.170 --> 09:45.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: He is a strange, in some senses, pathetic, misguided human being.
[09:46.450 --> 09:47.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is Schindler talking.
[09:47.770 --> 09:48.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not me talking about Schindler.
[09:49.030 --> 09:49.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Although it could be.
[09:49.950 --> 09:52.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: But no, this is Schindler talking about Kevin Mitnick.
[09:52.290 --> 09:54.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: He is a strange, in some senses, pathetic, misguided human being.
[09:55.570 --> 09:58.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't hold a lot of confidence that he will turn his life around.
[10:03.350 --> 10:04.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pretty amazing.
[10:04.310 --> 10:09.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And another quote in the story from the L.A.
[10:09.640 --> 10:11.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Times, where he actually said something to them.
[10:14.630 --> 10:17.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: The question was, would you defend someone like Kevin Mitnick?
[10:20.260 --> 10:25.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: As he's going to be defending various sleazy people in his new job with a private firm.
[10:27.820 --> 10:29.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: And here's his answer.
[10:29.660 --> 10:31.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: I won't be in that position.
[10:32.220 --> 10:35.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Most hackers aren't able to afford private practice.
[10:37.040 --> 10:38.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: That should tell you something right there.
[10:41.260 --> 10:43.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, so that's the situation with Kevin Mitnick.
[10:43.400 --> 10:47.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if anything has changed out there, please feel free to call in and let us know.
[10:47.540 --> 10:49.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because this is a story that changes by the minute.
[10:49.120 --> 10:50.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll try to give that address out later.
[10:52.060 --> 10:52.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie S.
[10:53.080 --> 10:57.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: sent us some mail just to clarify a couple of things.
[10:57.300 --> 10:59.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because as you know, he's been through this hell as well.
[11:00.020 --> 11:01.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: He got transferred all over the place.
[11:02.960 --> 11:10.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just to set the record straight, it's a good idea to clarify that Mitnick was not actually fined anything.
[11:11.720 --> 11:20.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was sentenced to pay restitution, $4,125, and a special assessment fee of $350.
[11:21.220 --> 11:28.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone convicted of violating a federal criminal statute must pay a special assessment fee of $50 for each count they were convicted of.
[11:28.860 --> 11:30.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: In Kevin's case, there were seven counts.
[11:31.000 --> 11:33.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, seven times 50 is $350.
[11:34.220 --> 11:38.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: In my case, there was no restitution because the government wrote there were no victims in the offense.
[11:39.420 --> 11:47.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was fined $1,000, however, in order to pay a $150 special assessment fee convicted on three counts of possessing hardware or software.
[11:48.280 --> 11:53.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Most people don't understand the distinction between the three kinds of financial penalties the federal government applies in criminal cases.
[11:54.220 --> 11:57.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not to mention the penalty of having to pay your lawyer if you hired one.
[11:57.360 --> 11:59.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: My legal fees came to around $35,000.
[11:59.660 --> 12:02.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you're acquitted, you can't recover this from the government.
[12:05.180 --> 12:05.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unbelievable.
[12:06.200 --> 12:07.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: But that's the way it works.
[12:10.700 --> 12:11.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what else do we have?
[12:13.220 --> 12:15.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have listener mail.
[12:15.420 --> 12:27.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, you can send us listener mail by writing to OTH at 2600.com or sending mail to Off The Hook, here at WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 1-0-0-0-5.
[12:29.080 --> 12:32.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dear Off The Hook, I was listening to your show about Dan Morgan and DirecTV.
[12:32.580 --> 12:34.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was the show last week.
[12:34.700 --> 12:50.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: We were talking about DirecTV basically shutting down Satellite Watch News and plunging its owner-publisher into bankruptcy because he published information and advertisements concerning how to get around their little smart cards.
[12:51.480 --> 12:52.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which aren't so smart.
[12:53.900 --> 12:58.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's a pretty scary thing when you can shut down a magazine because of what they say.
[12:58.400 --> 13:01.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's especially scary for me because I'm a magazine publisher.
[13:01.380 --> 13:02.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: But never mind that.
[13:02.760 --> 13:04.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: It should be scary for everybody listening.
[13:04.660 --> 13:09.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because you're very right to get information, to read alternative information, is in jeopardy.
[13:10.840 --> 13:17.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, continuing with this letter, between that and the situation with Bill Cheek, it seems to me America is starting to become a very scary place to live.
[13:18.200 --> 13:21.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope what happened to Dan Morgan doesn't happen to 2600 and Off The Hook.
[13:22.880 --> 13:30.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: As of this writing, I posted to the Internet newsgroups alt.radio.scanner and rec.radio.scanner a link to your show with a brief synopsis of what happened to Dan.
[13:30.860 --> 13:32.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I have a question.
[13:32.880 --> 13:36.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Isn't the person who places an ad responsible for the content of that ad?
[13:37.860 --> 13:39.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you see, that's logical.
[13:39.320 --> 13:41.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's the way that it has been.
[13:41.640 --> 13:43.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the way it really is in most places.
[13:43.800 --> 13:49.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because there are other magazines, as we mentioned last week, there are other magazines that carry the exact same advertisements.
[13:50.520 --> 13:52.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And DirecTV has not shut them down.
[13:53.600 --> 13:54.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, go figure.
[13:55.880 --> 13:59.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe they just go after people that don't have the money to fight back.
[14:01.300 --> 14:02.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wouldn't be at all surprising.
[14:04.340 --> 14:08.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Seems like Dan shouldn't have to shut his magazine down because of the ads people take out.
[14:08.280 --> 14:11.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: What would DirecTV have done if it was a large newspaper like the New York Times?
[14:12.340 --> 14:14.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thought it would be nice to see John Markoff on the unemployment line.
[14:15.780 --> 14:16.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's bad enough.
[14:16.740 --> 14:20.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Scanner enthusiasts are victim to these stupid, outdated, bureaucratic paper pushers.
[14:20.560 --> 14:21.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's next?
[14:22.100 --> 14:23.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it seems there was a bill before the legislature.
[14:23.940 --> 14:27.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: The feds want to be able to circumvent computer encryption without a court order.
[14:27.500 --> 14:29.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, let's hope it doesn't come to pass.
[14:29.800 --> 14:32.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: With all the crap going on, I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
[14:34.000 --> 14:44.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: People like Phil Zimmerman of Pretty Good Privacy, Kevin Mitnick, Phiber Optik, Bernie S., can probably testify that the government and large megabug corporations will go to any lengths to get you if you draw attention to yourself.
[14:45.480 --> 14:52.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: All someone would have to say is, he's got kiddie porn, or insert illegal info here on his computer to cause all kinds of trouble for someone.
[14:53.900 --> 14:55.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Police can search you even if you don't want them to.
[14:57.780 --> 14:59.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Can I search your pockets?
[14:59.300 --> 14:59.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Answer no.
[15:00.020 --> 15:01.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that's probable cause right there.
[15:02.060 --> 15:04.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Seems in the USA you're guilty until proven innocent.
[15:08.720 --> 15:11.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that was from Deeply Shrouded and Quiet.
[15:18.620 --> 15:24.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: And some newspeak CIA style from an article by Kevin Paulson.
[15:25.020 --> 15:29.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: On April 3rd, retired CIA officer Douglas Grote was indicted on espionage charges.
[15:30.560 --> 15:34.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: The case has drawn public attention to the agency's most theatrical function.
[15:35.140 --> 15:45.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Grote allegedly revealed the secrets of the CIA's black bag unit, an elite group of public servants who specialize in physically breaking into foreign embassies, and swiping the crypto keys needed by the NSA.
[15:46.860 --> 15:52.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Grote's alleged snitching notwithstanding the mission-impossible method of key recovery appears to be quite effective.
[15:52.760 --> 15:57.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: The agency's burglars have reportedly never been caught in the act, which leads to my question.
[15:58.020 --> 16:04.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: If the FBI fails in its current effort to restrict encryption domestically, will sneak and peek be the future of key recovery in America?
[16:09.220 --> 16:10.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Quite possible.
[16:10.880 --> 16:11.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Quite likely.
[16:12.940 --> 16:21.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: In response to the analogy we drew last week, going to hell in a handbasket is a term, and we rephrased that as going to hell in a bus.
[16:21.700 --> 16:22.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, someone has a better one.
[16:22.780 --> 16:24.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think hell in a taxi cab would be more accurate.
[16:26.040 --> 16:28.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: After all, you only pay a few bucks for a ride on the bus.
[16:28.240 --> 16:33.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: A cab meter keeps running while you're going, even if the driver gets lost, takes the long way around, or otherwise tries to screw you.
[16:34.440 --> 16:37.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: America is going to hell in a taxi cab is much more accurate.
[16:39.440 --> 16:41.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's, uh, interesting.
[16:43.420 --> 16:45.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Although, I don't know, you know...
[16:46.940 --> 16:49.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Somehow, riding in a taxi cab doesn't seem that unpleasant.
[16:50.680 --> 16:51.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Riding in a bus.
[16:51.520 --> 16:51.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[16:51.780 --> 16:53.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I never liked riding in buses, so...
[16:53.440 --> 16:54.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe it's just a personal thing.
[16:57.280 --> 17:01.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: To you're off the hook, as I'm sure you've heard, Kevin Mitnick is being refused kosher food.
[17:01.780 --> 17:06.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: The civil rights abuses involved with this type of action are obvious, and you don't need me to tell you about them.
[17:06.360 --> 17:12.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: One thing that you might not be aware of, however, is the Wired News website's coverage, and gap in coverage concerning this news.
[17:13.320 --> 17:22.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: The site, at which Sun had heavy banner ad placement, placed an article detailing this news on Wednesday, August 18th, and I read the article.
[17:22.660 --> 17:28.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, when I tried to revisit the site, the article on Thursday the 19th and Friday the 20th, it did not appear.
[17:29.140 --> 17:33.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Using the search string kosher on Thursday and Friday produced no Mitnick-related results.
[17:33.560 --> 17:39.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: But tonight, Saturday the 21st, the article appeared as the most recent article mentoring the word kosher.
[17:39.520 --> 17:46.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: But Sun does not appear in the banner ads for this article or on several other areas of the site that used to be heavily saturated in these ads.
[17:47.140 --> 17:49.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I see two potential problems with this.
[17:49.380 --> 17:51.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: One, Sun is pressing its weight upon media outlets.
[17:51.980 --> 17:54.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Two, Wired, at least for a bit, gave into the pressure.
[17:55.000 --> 17:57.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope that other people have observed this and are equally appalled.
[17:58.360 --> 17:59.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think your show is wonderful.
[17:59.420 --> 17:59.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Keep it good.
[18:00.140 --> 18:00.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Signed, Stephen Weiss.
[18:01.120 --> 18:03.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'd like some more information on that.
[18:03.560 --> 18:09.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: If it's in fact true, it could just have been incompetence, you know, losing a story, pulling it, putting it in the wrong place.
[18:10.440 --> 18:14.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Perhaps Sun's ad expired or it's being seen on other stories.
[18:14.700 --> 18:15.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[18:15.820 --> 18:17.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it does seem rather strange.
[18:17.210 --> 18:17.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll give you that.
[18:18.940 --> 18:23.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sun, of course, being the company that accused Kevin Mitnick of stealing tens of millions of dollars.
[18:26.180 --> 18:29.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think it was $80 million altogether for looking at their source code.
[18:29.970 --> 18:34.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: When it was later found out you can get the source code for free if you're a student and $100 if you're not.
[18:35.860 --> 18:43.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: One of the major reasons Kevin has been in jail for nearly five years was because people believed he stole something worth millions of dollars.
[18:45.500 --> 18:54.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: A day after Microsoft released its new web music technology, the company confirmed that someone's already developed a program to strip away the security behind it.
[18:56.010 --> 19:04.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Microsoft acknowledged that the executable file which has a name that I can't say on the air .exe exists and works.
[19:04.380 --> 19:08.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, there are a number of programs such as Audiojacker that perform similar functions.
[19:09.780 --> 19:14.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: This one just has a glitzier name instead of Microsoft spokesman adding that the company is working on a fix.
[19:19.490 --> 19:24.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now here's something that's rather odd.
[19:24.890 --> 19:26.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or maybe it's not odd.
[19:26.150 --> 19:27.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe it's just kind of outrageous.
[19:30.010 --> 19:31.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: It has to do with Sprint, our friends.
[19:31.630 --> 19:32.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sprint PCS.
[19:36.950 --> 19:39.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It seems, and this is something Bernie S.
[19:39.390 --> 19:50.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: sent us, it seems there is a $3 fee if you choose to pay for your phone bill in cash.
[19:52.130 --> 19:52.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's right.
[19:53.650 --> 19:59.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: This person writes in, and I prefer to pay for my services in cash every few weeks, leaving plenty of overlap so I don't get cut off for non-payment.
[20:01.010 --> 20:05.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I saw a sign on the counter about the $3 fee, I was incensed.
[20:05.510 --> 20:09.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd never heard of a company that charges its customers a fee to pay their bill with cash.
[20:10.330 --> 20:12.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Apparently, they want to minimize the lines at the stores.
[20:13.930 --> 20:17.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: I called Star 2 to ask if this was a nationwide policy and was told yes.
[20:18.210 --> 20:24.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: I then asked if I could pay by telephone with my credit card, which I knew I could, and if there was a minimum credit card payment amount, which there isn't.
[20:25.330 --> 20:36.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then I said I might protest this fee by paying my bill by credit card every day in $5 increments, which would be more time-consuming and costly for Sprint PCS to process than a single $150 in-person cash payment.
[20:37.350 --> 20:40.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And of course, the woman there said she had no problem at all with that.
[20:41.650 --> 20:46.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unfortunately, it's unlikely we could start a movement large enough to make Sprint PCS take notice.
[20:49.010 --> 20:49.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[20:50.230 --> 20:51.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: We get a lot of letters, we get a lot of mail.
[20:52.010 --> 20:53.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not.
[20:56.430 --> 20:59.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go to the phones over here and find out if this one is true.
[21:01.470 --> 21:04.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to call the people at Sprint.
[21:11.050 --> 21:13.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's always good to go straight to the source.
[21:30.000 --> 21:30.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here's the thing.
[21:31.040 --> 21:33.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I press one, they're going to ask for my number and all these other things.
[21:33.920 --> 21:35.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: They'll know I have a Touch-Tone phone.
[21:35.560 --> 21:38.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I don't press anything, I usually get a person.
[21:45.550 --> 21:47.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I said usually, didn't I?
[22:00.500 --> 22:03.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: All of our advocates are currently assisting other customers.
[22:03.780 --> 22:04.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Advocates, huh?
[22:14.640 --> 22:20.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Isn't this always so frustrating when you get put on hold and you don't know how long you have to wait?
[22:22.380 --> 22:23.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Especially when you're doing a radio show.
[22:23.900 --> 22:27.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's kind of annoying.
[22:31.470 --> 22:32.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll give it about 30 seconds.
[22:32.570 --> 22:34.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: All of our advocates are currently assisting other customers.
[22:34.890 --> 22:35.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: customers.
[22:35.430 --> 22:38.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please hold and your call will be answered in the order it was received.
[22:40.130 --> 22:43.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll give it about 30 seconds more and then we'll move on to something else.
[22:46.530 --> 22:48.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unfortunately, this is the way most services are these days.
[22:49.690 --> 22:57.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Whether it be Bell Atlantic, AT&T, Sprint, DirecTV, just have to wait forever.
[23:01.890 --> 23:04.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: All of our advocates are currently assisting other customers.
[23:04.890 --> 23:07.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe somebody can call for us and find out.
[23:10.030 --> 23:16.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you listen to some of the older shows back in the 80s and early 90s, whenever we call one of these places, you instantly get people.
[23:16.550 --> 23:16.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Instantly.
[23:17.290 --> 23:18.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's happened?
[23:18.990 --> 23:22.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are there that many more of us or are there that many fewer of them?
[23:23.930 --> 23:28.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think we have a lot more voice processing systems, a lot more computers, but a lot fewer employees.
[23:30.790 --> 23:36.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dear, off the hook, yesterday I was walking home from my friend's house when an elderly lady pulled over to ask for directions.
[23:37.530 --> 23:41.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I saw a free Kevin sticker on her bumper, so after giving the directions, I asked if she knew about it.
[23:41.770 --> 23:43.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: She said yes and asked if I knew about it.
[23:43.470 --> 23:46.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: I replied yes and told her I've been following it for about two years.
[23:47.150 --> 23:56.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, she opened up her trunk and gave me and my two other friends bumper stickers, and she told us that she is Kevin's grandma and loves when people know who he is.
[23:56.490 --> 24:01.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: She says that elderly people don't care about it and this stuff, and she left.
[24:01.790 --> 24:05.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: I found out that Kevin and his mother and grandmother live here in Vegas.
[24:06.810 --> 24:18.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: The most amazing part was that she gave me her phone number, asked me to call her, said that they might have a party in January when he gets home and said she'll invite us, introduce us to Kevin.
[24:20.070 --> 24:22.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Turned a crappy first day of school into one of the best days of my life.
[24:23.310 --> 24:23.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Signed, Monkey.
[24:25.270 --> 24:37.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's amazing how many people have actually met Kevin's grandmother in Las Vegas and really learned a thing or two about justice, about family, about the importance of sticking by somebody.
[24:38.590 --> 24:39.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's good to hear that.
[24:41.290 --> 24:43.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's hope it's a lot sooner than January too.
[24:47.930 --> 24:59.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, another thing that we've noticed, we've noticed things for years actually, the inflated cost involved involved with phone calls from prison.
[25:01.990 --> 25:15.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: And one thing that is starting to happen is that there is more outrage at these high costs.
[25:15.430 --> 25:24.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: For instance, where Kevin is calling from now, it costs something like five dollars for the first minute and I think 75 cents or a dollar for each minute after that.
[25:24.470 --> 25:33.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what's crazy is it comes through those same companies, the exact same companies that are advertising 10 cents a minute and really cheap costs.
[25:36.110 --> 25:37.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's real hypocrisy.
[25:38.410 --> 25:48.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Two California senators are trying to stop the state from collecting commissions and collect calls made by state prison inmates saying the practice gouges the friends and families of prisoners.
[25:49.350 --> 26:05.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: State Senators John Vesconcelos, Democrat San Jose Richard Polanco, Democrat Los Angeles have asked the Department of Corrections and the Department of General Services to end the practice which they say forces people who talk to prisoners to pay just about the highest phone rates in the nation.
[26:06.150 --> 26:17.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: The senators were responding to complaints from inmates' families and a recent Chronicle investigation that revealed the state earns as much as 44 cents per dollar on each collect call made from a state prison.
[26:17.730 --> 26:24.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Last year California collected 16 million dollars from prison phone calls which went to the state's general fund.
[26:25.050 --> 26:30.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: The state is a public service and not in the business to make profits off the people, Vasconcelos said.
[26:30.770 --> 26:35.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: For the state to make money off the people who can least afford to pay these rates is reprehensible.
[26:35.890 --> 26:46.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: The senators said they plan to talk with the corrections and general services departments again this week and if the agencies do not agree to end the commissions they will ask Governor Gray Davis to intervene.
[26:46.730 --> 26:52.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: If Davis does not halt the process Vasconcelos said he will propose legislation to stop the commissions.
[26:52.990 --> 27:02.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: The senator's actions come at the same time that MCI which operates most prison pay funds admitted it overcharged for some calls made by California prisoners.
[27:03.010 --> 27:13.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: The admission came last week in response to a complaint filed against MCI by a consumer group which said MCI was systematically overcharging people who accept collect calls from prisoners.
[27:13.390 --> 27:18.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: MCI said its billing mistakes were isolated and denied widespread overcharging.
[27:19.270 --> 27:27.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: In California state inmates can only make collect calls and they can only use MCI or GTE whichever has the exclusive payphone contract in their prison.
[27:28.450 --> 27:34.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: MCI provides long distance service at 33 California state prisons and GTE provides payphone services at 4.
[27:35.170 --> 27:41.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's funny because when Kevin calls it's either AT&T or Sprint so I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate.
[27:42.170 --> 27:48.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: For each dollar it collects on prison calls MCI pays the state 44 cents GTE pays 33 cents.
[27:48.950 --> 27:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Critics say this process encourages the state to award prison phone contracts to the company that pays it the biggest commission not the one that charges the lowest rates.
[27:59.730 --> 28:06.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right now long distance collect calls from payphones and state run prisons cost about 50 cents per minute on top of the three dollar surcharge per call.
[28:08.030 --> 28:17.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: That rate far exceeds rates charged to most other customers except for those making operator assisted calls from places such as airports and hotel rooms during peak weekday hours.
[28:17.690 --> 28:19.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Even on local calls the prison rate is higher.
[28:19.890 --> 28:23.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: A 15 minute collect call from San Quentin prison to Oakland cost about five dollars.
[28:24.050 --> 28:30.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: The same call made from a payphone right outside the prison cost about 255 and we all know payphones are exorbitantly expensive.
[28:31.450 --> 28:35.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you make the same call from a home phone to another phone it probably costs about 10 cents.
[28:36.850 --> 28:42.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Prisoner advocates say the high cost caused some families to cut off contact with inmates which could hurt society.
[28:42.550 --> 28:48.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Studies have shown that inmates who keep in touch with family members are less likely to commit another crime once released.
[28:48.990 --> 28:57.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: MCI and GTE say some of the money it collects from prison calls pays for mandatory operator assistance, added security features, and commissions to the state.
[28:58.170 --> 29:10.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Christina Polly, deputy director of the telecommunications division, said vendors must recoup costs for installing expensive equipment and said companies also run the risk of not being paid from any of the calls they process.
[29:12.050 --> 29:16.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: There is a much higher risk of uncollectible invoices for those calls.
[29:17.010 --> 29:23.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: If the vendors can't make a profit off these calls, she said, the state runs the risk of losing a phone provider altogether.
[29:24.150 --> 29:31.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: State officials say the commission's California collects pay-for-cost associated with monitoring inmates who use the phones.
[29:31.530 --> 29:44.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: The state will not disclose what it spends on such activities, but consumer advocates, including Gerald Norlander, deputy director of the public utility project in Albany, New York, says the state's commissions far exceed its costs.
[29:44.950 --> 29:51.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: The state is currently rebidding the payphone contracts which expire this month and had been expected to select a vendor before the end of August.
[29:52.450 --> 30:04.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, the process has been delayed because the governor has asked state officials to delay any project that's not mission critical until after February 2000 to avoid any Y2K problems.
[30:04.890 --> 30:12.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pauley said the general services department hopes to award the contract in November with implementation scheduled for some time after February 2000.
[30:13.170 --> 30:16.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: She added that commissions for the state are likely to be included in the new contract.
[30:16.770 --> 30:22.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: If the state were to say no commissions, that would not in and of itself change what the inmates pay, she said.
[30:22.870 --> 30:26.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: The vendors would simply take all the money instead of sharing it with the state.
[30:26.490 --> 30:29.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: It would not benefit inmates' families, it would benefit vendors, she said.
[30:32.770 --> 30:33.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[30:33.830 --> 30:36.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if you can see through that kind of a statement.
[30:39.180 --> 30:50.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Many other states also collect commissions on prisoner phone calls, but most of them, including New York, Florida, and Ohio, send commissions to inmate welfare funds to pay for books, prison education programs, and other inmate-related expenses.
[30:51.000 --> 30:55.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Only a handful of states, such as Hawaii and Virginia, send commissions to their general funds.
[30:56.140 --> 31:01.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: On top of high rates, the Chronicle investigation also revealed that customers are often overcharged for prison calls.
[31:02.380 --> 31:07.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Several customers provided the Chronicle with bills showing rates that exceeded MCI's published rates.
[31:08.920 --> 31:19.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Responding to a complaint filed in June by the Utility Consumers Action Network, MCI told the State Public Utilities Commission it improperly charged a higher rate on calls made by some prisoners.
[31:20.100 --> 31:29.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Utility Consumers Action Network submitted bills showing that MCI charged some customers higher-priced day rates for prison calls that were made during cheaper night or evening hours.
[31:30.260 --> 31:37.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Other bills showed customers being charged intrastate rates higher than what MCI is supposed to charge according to tariffs filed with the PUC.
[31:38.780 --> 31:46.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: In its filing, MCI admitted that it charged day rates on some night and evening calls and said the intrastate rates it charged some customers do not exist.
[31:46.900 --> 31:50.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, the customer denied that it systematically overcharged customers.
[31:52.560 --> 31:58.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: That comes from the San Francisco Chronicle, and it's pretty much indicative of the way things are nationwide.
[31:59.780 --> 32:04.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: When Kevin calls and you ask for the rates, it's just staggering.
[32:04.240 --> 32:04.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's unbelievable.
[32:04.980 --> 32:09.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's nearly $5 for the first minute and 75 cents around there for each additional.
[32:11.980 --> 32:13.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Someone's making a killing off of this.
[32:13.860 --> 32:15.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what does it do?
[32:15.140 --> 32:20.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: It makes people who can't afford to pay that much more reluctant to talk to people who are in prison.
[32:20.420 --> 32:23.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what does that do when people in prison can't talk to the people at home who matter to them?
[32:26.100 --> 32:29.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sure doesn't make rehabilitation happen a whole lot sooner, I'll say that.
[32:32.000 --> 32:35.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[32:35.640 --> 32:36.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to take some phone calls.
[32:38.280 --> 32:40.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's one of the things to talk about as well.
[32:41.500 --> 32:44.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you have anything on your mind, please give us a call as well.
[32:45.800 --> 32:46.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[32:46.480 --> 32:46.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[32:48.500 --> 32:49.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, hello.
[32:49.520 --> 32:49.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[32:49.900 --> 32:55.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you guys no longer play the sort of cool ambient tunes in the background that you used to do?
[32:55.900 --> 32:57.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was neat when you...
[32:57.180 --> 32:58.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, we do sometimes.
[32:58.320 --> 32:58.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[32:58.660 --> 33:00.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have to be in an ambient kind of a mood.
[33:00.500 --> 33:00.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I see.
[33:01.320 --> 33:01.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[33:02.000 --> 33:03.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, keep up the good work.
[33:03.720 --> 33:04.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[33:04.420 --> 33:04.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[33:04.760 --> 33:05.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for calling.
[33:06.360 --> 33:07.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ambient music.
[33:07.140 --> 33:07.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, good evening.
[33:07.640 --> 33:08.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[33:09.720 --> 33:10.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[33:10.300 --> 33:10.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[33:10.940 --> 33:11.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: How you doing tonight?
[33:12.020 --> 33:12.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's up?
[33:13.220 --> 33:14.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Couple of comments and questions.
[33:15.340 --> 33:17.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sprint, um, Sprint, sorry, um,
[33:20.820 --> 33:24.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cellular Phone, um, Comcast, also goes under another name.
[33:25.340 --> 33:30.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you know how you get so many free minutes per month on all your phone programs?
[33:30.240 --> 33:30.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[33:30.680 --> 33:30.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[33:31.480 --> 33:33.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I don't know if anybody else is doing this.
[33:33.660 --> 33:34.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: You guys would know better.
[33:34.800 --> 33:37.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, they give you, say, 300 minutes free.
[33:38.020 --> 33:46.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Under a new plan, they have a family plan where you can have up to four lines per account, four phones per account that are having four different separate accounts in a family.
[33:46.860 --> 33:47.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[33:47.620 --> 33:55.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, they bill you for all the minutes you use, and they credit you for all the minutes up to your allowable allotment, say, 300 minutes.
[33:55.980 --> 34:00.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, they tax you, state and federal, for all the minutes that you use.
[34:01.440 --> 34:05.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: They tax you, even though they credit you back for the minutes, they don't credit you back for the tax.
[34:06.160 --> 34:06.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
[34:06.680 --> 34:08.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: They tax you as if you use the minutes?
[34:08.620 --> 34:08.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[34:08.840 --> 34:19.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Even though you get 300 minutes for your plan, for your monthly, uh, service, they tax you for it, and they credit you And when you call customer service, they go, but they're crediting you for the minutes.
[34:19.240 --> 34:20.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're not paying for them.
[34:20.240 --> 34:23.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I go, yeah, but you're charging me tax for something that's part of my basic plan.
[34:23.800 --> 34:27.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the concept just doesn't sink in to the customer service people.
[34:27.920 --> 34:29.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, first of all, how were you able to figure this out?
[34:30.020 --> 34:31.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is it clearly spelled out on the bill?
[34:31.680 --> 34:40.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, if you just backtrack and look at the tax for the total bill, you see that it's way higher when you have higher usage of minutes.
[34:40.140 --> 34:46.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then you just multiply, I think it's 6% for New Jersey, and I think it's 1.5% or 3% for federal.
[34:47.540 --> 34:52.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And when you multiply it out, it comes out that they tax you for the minutes that are free as part of your plan.
[34:52.360 --> 34:57.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, they don't do it on their single plan, but for this family plan, they do it.
[34:57.860 --> 35:05.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: And even the people in the stores that sell this service don't understand it because this is something new.
[35:05.680 --> 35:13.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it sounds like someone slipped up with the programming because, obviously, if they're not doing it on all their accounts, then that tells you right there they don't know what they're doing.
[35:14.380 --> 35:22.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, and it just doesn't look right, and I'm up to my third bill so far, and I'm looking to see if they credit me for previous months paid.
[35:22.900 --> 35:25.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: But even just to pay the tax and then wait for a credit is ridiculous.
[35:25.800 --> 35:26.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's true.
[35:26.340 --> 35:27.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the company is Comcast?
[35:28.320 --> 35:32.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Comcast, and it goes under Cellular One, who I think just got bought out by Southwest Bell.
[35:32.920 --> 35:38.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, maybe people out there listening who subscribe to that service should look at their bills, see if that applies to them.
[35:38.540 --> 35:41.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: If enough people call up, hopefully it'll reach somebody.
[35:41.300 --> 35:49.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: What I suggest to you, though, the next time you call, just insist on speaking to a supervisor, somebody, you know, in the upper echelons that might have a clue as to what you're talking about.
[35:49.260 --> 35:52.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I did that already, and that was like getting a runaround.
[35:52.640 --> 35:58.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: What I've been doing is just deducting the tax that appropriates those charges, and I've just been not paying that tax every month.
[35:58.460 --> 36:05.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but, you see, that's not going to do anything because they'll simply come up with, you know, a balance, and they'll put interest and penalties on that, and you're not really going to get anywhere.
[36:05.200 --> 36:07.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's why I was hoping to at least get the voice out there.
[36:07.680 --> 36:08.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe somebody hears this.
[36:08.900 --> 36:09.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[36:09.260 --> 36:17.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because the other thing is, too, if they're charging you for that, and the minutes are part of your plan, are they, in turn, turning around and paying that tax to the state and federal, or are they pocketing that?
[36:17.520 --> 36:18.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Probably not.
[36:18.500 --> 36:20.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, because there's no service.
[36:20.220 --> 36:21.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: What are they paying for?
[36:21.180 --> 36:21.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: What are you paying for?
[36:31.440 --> 36:41.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm not sure if it's exactly true, but they're talking about all the power companies testing for their Y2K, which happens to be a date they picked arbitrarily, September 9th, 99th.
[36:43.000 --> 36:45.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Coincidentally, you think that has anything to do with 9999?
[36:46.320 --> 36:47.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[36:47.120 --> 36:47.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe it does.
[36:47.720 --> 36:49.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe they want to kill two birds with one stone.
[36:49.580 --> 37:03.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, they could just bypass that day like it doesn't exist, and just call it December 31st, and then when the clock rolls around, if they have any problems, it's certainly not because of the 4-9s, which I think under some programming is a system shutdown,
[37:03.920 --> 37:04.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: right?
[37:05.220 --> 37:08.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: It can be almost anything, depending on the programming, obviously, but...
[37:08.640 --> 37:08.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[37:08.940 --> 37:09.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, something to look forward to.
[37:09.900 --> 37:10.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it is.
[37:10.780 --> 37:11.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's also something to look forward to.
[37:11.560 --> 37:11.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[37:11.600 --> 37:11.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Appreciate the show.
[37:12.100 --> 37:12.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[37:12.560 --> 37:13.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for calling.
[37:13.720 --> 37:13.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bye.
[37:14.340 --> 37:16.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've got to look at these things with a sense of adventure.
[37:17.680 --> 37:18.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not foreboding.
[37:20.160 --> 37:20.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[37:20.720 --> 37:27.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Speaking of adventure, and for some, foreboding, we do have information on H2K, the Hacker 2000 conference.
[37:27.960 --> 37:36.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, this is all assuming that we make it through Y2K okay, and that the country is still here in another year.
[37:38.660 --> 37:45.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll have that announcement in just a couple of minutes as far as when, where, that kind of thing.
[37:45.480 --> 37:46.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: So stay tuned.
[37:46.540 --> 37:48.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take a phone call, 212-209-2900.
[37:49.020 --> 37:49.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[37:49.700 --> 37:50.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[37:50.280 --> 37:50.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[37:51.140 --> 37:51.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[37:51.440 --> 37:55.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd just like to mention that last week you had a person that said that this country is going to hell.
[37:56.360 --> 37:58.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it is in the following way.
[37:59.680 --> 38:01.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we said it was going to hell on a bus.
[38:02.220 --> 38:02.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[38:02.660 --> 38:11.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, my way it's going hell is because, I mean, you have payphones that charge you, like Kokos that charge you after you call an 800 number at their certain amount of time.
[38:11.560 --> 38:15.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've seen people actually cursing at payphones.
[38:15.160 --> 38:20.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they're like, you mother f***ing tape on your f***ing tape on your f***ing this dud game.
[38:21.540 --> 38:26.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, I'm very impressed with your language control there.
[38:26.620 --> 38:30.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, yeah, people have been known to completely lose it.
[38:30.400 --> 38:36.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, do you know that if you want a discount on certain, like, buses, like if you go on Great Hand, they make...
[38:36.460 --> 38:38.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have a student card.
[38:38.460 --> 38:41.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have my student card still, my ID card.
[38:41.360 --> 38:42.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't have my age.
[38:42.600 --> 38:43.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't have anything.
[38:43.380 --> 38:44.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just has a picture of me and everything.
[38:45.000 --> 38:45.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say...
[38:45.680 --> 38:46.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that PS23 or something?
[38:47.040 --> 38:47.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no.
[38:47.780 --> 38:50.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: The thing is, is that you have to...
[38:50.260 --> 38:56.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: The bus line says, well, you have to have a student advantage card that you have to pay $20 a year for.
[38:56.800 --> 38:59.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, why should you have to pay to get a discount?
[38:59.360 --> 39:00.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's my logic.
[39:00.500 --> 39:00.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[39:01.000 --> 39:02.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well, that's...
[39:02.020 --> 39:03.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: That is logical, right?
[39:03.880 --> 39:05.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that kind of frightens me coming from you.
[39:05.120 --> 39:06.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: But thanks for calling.
[39:06.620 --> 39:09.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go back to Cursing at a Payphone, and we'll talk to you in the future.
[39:09.760 --> 39:10.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Isaac, welcome.
[39:10.520 --> 39:10.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi.
[39:11.040 --> 39:11.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: What happened to you?
[39:11.880 --> 39:13.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: It looks like you've been through this stringer.
[39:13.200 --> 39:13.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have.
[39:13.880 --> 39:14.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[39:14.800 --> 39:15.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's...
[39:15.160 --> 39:18.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: As much as I love trains, they really just weren't on my side today.
[39:18.760 --> 39:20.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was in a heated subway train before.
[39:20.920 --> 39:21.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was great.
[39:21.640 --> 39:24.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, everybody kept walking to the next car thinking that...
[39:24.500 --> 39:25.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was any cooler.
[39:25.520 --> 39:26.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it wasn't.
[39:26.220 --> 39:32.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was like, you know, this herd of people walking through one version of hell to another, all looking really sad, you know?
[39:33.460 --> 39:35.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like that scene from Dante's Inferno.
[39:35.240 --> 39:35.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what I was thinking.
[39:35.980 --> 39:37.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was actually thinking of Dante's Inferno.
[39:37.860 --> 39:39.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they had the look.
[39:40.500 --> 39:41.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: As they went from car to car.
[39:41.980 --> 39:44.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And some trains, you can't even go from car to car, so...
[39:44.460 --> 39:45.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
[39:45.160 --> 39:48.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some of the N train, for instance, usually...
[39:48.720 --> 39:49.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what the point.
[39:49.820 --> 39:50.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, they lock the doors.
[39:51.120 --> 39:51.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[39:52.280 --> 39:54.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: How's the one-legged guy supposed to get from one car to another?
[39:54.700 --> 39:54.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
[39:55.160 --> 39:55.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know?
[39:57.520 --> 39:59.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, so, anything new in your world?
[39:59.900 --> 40:00.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, no.
[40:00.680 --> 40:03.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just trying to collect people's problem reports from GPS.
[40:04.040 --> 40:04.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[40:04.440 --> 40:05.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Turn your damn phone off.
[40:05.740 --> 40:07.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every time you come in here, some moron calls you...
[40:07.840 --> 40:08.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry.
[40:08.320 --> 40:10.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...and goes out over the airwaves.
[40:11.000 --> 40:14.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: The last thing I was really expecting was a telephone call right now.
[40:14.840 --> 40:17.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: It kind of slipped my mind to turn off the ringer as I was running into the studio.
[40:18.460 --> 40:19.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, um...
[40:19.240 --> 40:20.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, yeah, the GPS roll over.
[40:20.580 --> 40:21.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you mention that, or...?
[40:21.420 --> 40:24.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, actually, but if I'm going to mention that, then I've got to bring up the theme.
[40:24.660 --> 40:25.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-oh.
[40:25.940 --> 40:26.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: For, uh...
[40:26.780 --> 40:29.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, because it's a Y2K issue.
[40:29.620 --> 40:30.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[40:30.240 --> 40:34.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And since we are on the countdown here, it's practically the end of August.
[40:34.840 --> 40:35.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, can you believe it?
[40:35.520 --> 40:37.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's practically the end of August, so we're almost there.
[40:37.820 --> 40:39.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: The fuse is getting shorter.
[40:39.200 --> 40:48.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was telling people that we're going to announce information about H2K in just a couple of minutes, but it's all contingent on us surviving.
[40:48.800 --> 40:51.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that could be a minor glitch in the plans.
[40:51.500 --> 40:54.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: If we do not survive, then there will be no H2K.
[40:54.660 --> 40:56.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because of the Y2K.
[40:56.280 --> 40:56.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, come on.
[40:56.600 --> 40:57.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, there can't be.
[40:57.400 --> 40:59.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't we have a rain-like venue or something?
[40:59.860 --> 41:00.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do we have a rain planet?
[41:00.960 --> 41:01.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think so.
[41:01.840 --> 41:02.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well...
[41:02.240 --> 41:05.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll need another locale of some sort to go to.
[41:06.160 --> 41:11.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, again, the plans will be a bit awry if Y2K doesn't quite work out to our liking.
[41:12.880 --> 41:13.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: True enough.
[41:13.300 --> 41:25.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, with that, we plunge into the feature, which we sort of wish we didn't have to do, but we do, because it's scary, it's frightening, it's just around the corner.
[41:26.420 --> 41:29.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: It gets bigger and bigger with every day that passes by.
[41:29.380 --> 41:32.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, we're talking about Y2K.
[41:32.300 --> 41:33.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Y2K.
[41:34.260 --> 41:35.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Countdown.
[41:36.000 --> 41:37.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: To Doom.
[41:57.410 --> 42:00.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: We don't have time for the whole theme, obviously, because we're running short.
[42:00.490 --> 42:01.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, basically...
[42:02.450 --> 42:02.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's okay.
[42:02.990 --> 42:05.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll get, like, 1,400 emails about who that was, anyway.
[42:06.230 --> 42:06.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[42:07.970 --> 42:08.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here's what I have.
[42:09.150 --> 42:10.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe you can tell me if this is close to what you have.
[42:11.130 --> 42:11.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: From the U.S.
[42:12.090 --> 42:13.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Coast Guard Navigation Center.
[42:15.010 --> 42:20.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: GPS system time will roll over at midnight, August 21st and 22nd.
[42:20.790 --> 42:21.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Keep in mind, this date has passed.
[42:24.170 --> 42:25.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: 21-22, August 1999.
[42:27.410 --> 42:29.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: 132 days before the year 2000.
[42:29.990 --> 42:35.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: On August 22nd, unless repaired, many GPS receivers will claim that it is January 6th, 1980.
[42:37.190 --> 42:40.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: January 7th will be, of course, August 23rd, and so on.
[42:41.590 --> 42:51.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Accuracy of navigation may also be severely affected, although it appears that GPS broadcasts do contain sufficient data to ensure that navigation need not be affected by rollover in 1999.
[42:52.670 --> 42:59.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: It is not proven that the firmware and all receivers will handle the rollover in stride.
[43:00.730 --> 43:06.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Some receivers may claim wrong locations, in addition to incorrect.
[43:06.930 --> 43:07.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dates.
[43:11.510 --> 43:15.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, did we survive, or did we not survive?
[43:15.390 --> 43:16.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what's trying to be asked to say.
[43:17.650 --> 43:21.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: On 21 August at 23.59...
[43:21.110 --> 43:22.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this is what, 20...
[43:22.790 --> 43:24.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is 24 August.
[43:24.290 --> 43:25.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's 24 August?
[43:25.250 --> 43:25.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[43:26.030 --> 43:28.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so we have 21 August, 22, 23.
[43:28.710 --> 43:28.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[43:29.070 --> 43:30.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: We've had three days now to realize...
[43:30.610 --> 43:44.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it was 13 seconds before midnight of August 22nd, Greenwich Mean Time, that the Air Force uploaded that new week's set of instructions to the happy little GPS satellites spinning around our globe.
[43:45.330 --> 43:53.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what happened was that we only have 1,023 weeks to deal with, numbered 0 through 1023.
[43:53.850 --> 43:54.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Great.
[43:54.410 --> 43:56.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a happy little, you know, register.
[43:56.370 --> 43:57.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it rolled over to zero.
[43:57.670 --> 43:58.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, uh...
[43:58.570 --> 44:07.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some of you who, like, bought GPS receivers way back for, like, $800 probably got your commercial unit without...
[44:07.730 --> 44:10.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: With the manufacturer not thinking about this minor glitch.
[44:10.330 --> 44:11.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they lost somewhere at sea?
[44:11.570 --> 44:13.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's what the Coast Guard was worried about.
[44:13.650 --> 44:27.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, as it turns out, some of the reports that I've heard were either just absolutely accurate, and the dates were screwed up on the display, and, uh, for downloading actual location data, or they were, like, on the other side of the planet.
[44:27.890 --> 44:28.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[44:28.050 --> 44:28.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which is really kind of cool.
[44:29.110 --> 44:31.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, nobody was off by a few yards.
[44:31.150 --> 44:34.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: You were either, you know, normal accuracy or way off.
[44:37.110 --> 44:38.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I'm interested in more reports.
[44:38.670 --> 44:39.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'd like to know, too.
[44:40.030 --> 44:43.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe we'll start finding these people in the weeks ahead.
[44:43.070 --> 44:43.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, uh...
[44:43.990 --> 44:44.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Help me!
[44:44.690 --> 44:47.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it seems like we survived this little step.
[44:47.930 --> 44:48.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sure enough.
[44:48.610 --> 44:50.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: The next one is September 9th, 1999.
[44:52.150 --> 44:52.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: All nines.
[44:53.210 --> 44:53.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: 9-9-99.
[44:54.250 --> 44:54.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[44:54.430 --> 44:59.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's the end of file code for some very early mainframe systems, which ought to be cute.
[45:00.190 --> 45:02.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then, it's on...
[45:02.110 --> 45:02.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: The big one.
[45:02.670 --> 45:03.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: To the big one.
[45:04.410 --> 45:10.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: As we march ahead, slowly, ploddingly, what else can we possibly do?
[45:11.050 --> 45:12.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have to just walk right into this thing.
[45:13.430 --> 45:17.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like those brave people I saw before walking into the smoldering hot subway car.
[45:18.590 --> 45:20.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: We just have to keep going.
[45:21.110 --> 45:24.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thinking that maybe the next car will have air conditioning.
[45:26.970 --> 45:27.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who's to say?
[45:28.850 --> 45:32.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: So far, we've got the bus to hell and the train to Y2K.
[45:33.070 --> 45:33.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[45:33.230 --> 45:35.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've got this whole mass transit Armageddon thing running, don't we?
[45:35.910 --> 45:36.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: We sure do.
[45:37.010 --> 45:42.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, in the New York subway system, you can come up with all kinds of analogies and metaphors and things like that.
[45:45.640 --> 45:48.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, we're down to four months.
[45:49.060 --> 45:53.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Four months until the actual dune or whatever happens.
[45:55.260 --> 45:55.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you ready?
[45:56.880 --> 45:59.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, I never thought that anything was going to happen to start with.
[45:59.260 --> 45:59.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I still say that.
[45:59.920 --> 46:03.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I still say that this is the most tremendously overblown thing in mankind.
[46:04.240 --> 46:05.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of people making money.
[46:06.020 --> 46:10.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, a lot of people making money and really taking advantage of other people.
[46:10.160 --> 46:10.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yes.
[46:12.820 --> 46:15.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, uh, you still planning on being, what, in, uh...
[46:15.860 --> 46:17.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I'm vacationing in the southwest.
[46:17.820 --> 46:18.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Guam or something?
[46:18.760 --> 46:19.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, no.
[46:20.020 --> 46:21.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: The great American southwest.
[46:22.480 --> 46:23.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah, that'll be a fun place to be.
[46:23.940 --> 46:24.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: In the desert.
[46:24.540 --> 46:24.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[46:24.860 --> 46:25.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[46:25.540 --> 46:26.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's my vacation.
[46:26.740 --> 46:28.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just happen to have them come inside.
[46:30.300 --> 46:32.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm gonna head north.
[46:32.840 --> 46:33.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[46:33.540 --> 46:33.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[46:34.020 --> 46:35.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep in mind, this is gonna be winter.
[46:35.760 --> 46:36.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know.
[46:36.260 --> 46:37.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I don't think it's gonna make that much of a difference.
[46:38.000 --> 46:38.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[46:38.480 --> 46:40.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Going about 40 blocks uptown.
[46:40.700 --> 46:42.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'll be at the Times Square celebration.
[46:43.780 --> 46:44.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, you're gonna be there.
[46:45.440 --> 46:47.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because that's where everybody tells me I shouldn't be.
[46:47.700 --> 46:48.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[46:48.340 --> 46:50.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I've always been one to go where I'm not supposed to go.
[46:51.200 --> 46:51.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're gonna take pictures?
[46:53.060 --> 46:54.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: If it's allowed, I'll take pictures.
[46:54.700 --> 46:54.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Cool.
[46:55.140 --> 46:55.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[46:55.480 --> 46:56.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to break the rules.
[47:20.380 --> 47:21.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if you heard about this...
[47:22.160 --> 47:24.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: this latest thing involving, uh...
[47:24.840 --> 47:27.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: the Clinton administration's latest bout of paranoia.
[47:27.440 --> 47:27.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh.
[47:27.740 --> 47:28.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: You heard about this one?
[47:28.460 --> 47:28.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I have.
[47:28.800 --> 47:29.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is incredible.
[47:29.580 --> 47:30.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is unbelievable.
[47:30.180 --> 47:32.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what it is with this administration, but, uh...
[47:32.320 --> 47:44.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Justice Department wants to make it easier for law enforcement authorities to obtain search warrants to secretly enter suspects' homes or offices and disable security on personal computers as a prelude to a wiretap or further search.
[47:44.740 --> 47:47.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's according to documents and interviews of Clinton administration officials.
[47:48.420 --> 47:53.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, basically, it sounds like what they want to do is just be able to go in there and covertly enter your computer and...
[47:54.820 --> 47:55.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: and...
[47:55.180 --> 47:55.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[47:55.640 --> 47:56.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think they...
[47:56.080 --> 47:57.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: they believe it's really easy.
[47:58.120 --> 48:03.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, they can just go in there and install some magic device that will just decrypt whatever is there.
[48:03.900 --> 48:05.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's not like planting a bug.
[48:06.480 --> 48:08.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you gotta figure a lot of things out.
[48:09.980 --> 48:23.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it just sounds like they're buying into this whole hacker myth that, you know, there's there's good hacking and there's bad hacking and hacking on the side of Uncle Sam is good hacking and, yeah, you know, you can do whatever you have to do just to get the information.
[48:24.060 --> 48:26.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because you got all this child pornography and drug dealing going on on the Internet there.
[48:28.060 --> 48:29.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anything is... is okay.
[48:29.400 --> 48:46.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I find the implications of this much more interesting so far as somebody getting a warrant that, well, you're supposed to be served a warrant, at which point you say, okay, I guess you have to enter my private property and do X, Y, and Z as designated by the judge.
[48:46.880 --> 48:54.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: But this is supposed to be a secret warrant where they go to the judge, they get the warrant, then they break into your home, fiddle with your stuff, and then leave.
[48:54.960 --> 49:01.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is basically a, you know, a green flag on all the black bag jobs that the FBI and the NSA have been doing for years and years and years.
[49:01.600 --> 49:06.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, except who have they been doing the black bag jobs against over these years?
[49:07.080 --> 49:07.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good question.
[49:08.000 --> 49:08.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[49:08.120 --> 49:15.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because you don't hear about them because usually the evidence isn't directly admissible in court because you can't break into somebody's house and steal stuff.
[49:15.520 --> 49:19.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, espionage and international intrigue and things like that's one thing.
[49:20.020 --> 49:20.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: But this is different.
[49:20.780 --> 49:23.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're focusing on individual people in the United States now.
[49:23.240 --> 49:23.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which is why it's scary.
[49:24.960 --> 49:25.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's really scary.
[49:25.500 --> 49:27.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, every week we come up with something even scarier than last week.
[49:27.920 --> 49:30.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Last week we were shutting down a magazine because the company didn't like what they said.
[49:30.460 --> 49:37.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, all of a sudden, you know, the government can go into your house and, you know, play with your computer while you're not there.
[49:37.940 --> 49:38.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's...
[49:38.340 --> 49:39.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And not tell you about it.
[49:39.240 --> 49:40.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's really frightening.
[49:40.420 --> 49:46.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you look way back in English law, the one thing that a king couldn't do was to enter your castle.
[49:47.120 --> 49:53.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was your happy little, you know, cordoned off area of land where even he had very little power.
[49:53.720 --> 50:04.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Computer and Communications Industry Association on a CCIA, CCIA, denounced the Justice Department plan to authorize secret searches and surveillance of private homes and offices.
[50:04.640 --> 50:19.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: The draft legislation revealed in addition to the Washington Post would allow federal agents to obtain court authorization to break into private premises to obtain information needed to monitor private communications or collect data or to alter computer equipment to enable such surveillance.
[50:19.940 --> 50:36.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not since the Nixon administration have we seen such a desire to debase the privacy of individuals in the Fourth Amendment, said CCIA President and CEO Ed Black, I am dumbfounded that an administration that has experienced the overzealousness of the government's investigative powers would sanction this attack on our civil liberties.
[50:36.080 --> 50:39.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is one big step towards the surveillance society.
[50:40.220 --> 50:42.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or to plant evidence to add into your little list.
[50:42.800 --> 50:50.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess, you know, they come up with these really incredibly stupid ideas and then they wonder why people react so venomously against them.
[50:50.640 --> 50:51.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's...
[50:52.740 --> 50:58.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're waiting for somebody not to speak so that they can just start passing this stuff off without any kind of...
[50:58.140 --> 51:01.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they haven't yet figured out a way to pass bills without people knowing about that.
[51:01.860 --> 51:02.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, secret bills.
[51:02.820 --> 51:03.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have they invented that yet?
[51:06.080 --> 51:06.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[51:06.720 --> 51:08.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what they're thinking when they do these things.
[51:09.640 --> 51:11.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then on the other side of the coin, we got this...
[51:13.600 --> 51:16.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: this other situation here regarding political websites.
[51:16.960 --> 51:17.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: You heard about this one at all?
[51:17.900 --> 51:18.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[51:18.140 --> 51:24.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Before the American Revolution, King George III ordered that all printing presses in the colonies be registered with the government.
[51:24.540 --> 51:27.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Today, the newly crowned King George II, George W.
[51:27.780 --> 51:33.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bush, is trying to use his rapidly growing power to force political websites to register with the government.
[51:33.820 --> 51:35.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Presidential candidate George W.
[51:35.400 --> 51:41.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bush has filed a complaint with the FEC against a website that criticizes and satirizes him.
[51:41.260 --> 51:47.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: On August 19th, which already passed, the FEC will have their first hearing on regulating political content on the Internet.
[51:48.540 --> 51:56.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: If they rule in Bush's favor, the operators of political websites would be required to either register with the government by forming a political action committee or face fines.
[51:57.320 --> 52:03.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Registering with the FEC as a PAC is a complex process that would prevent many individuals from publishing their views on personal websites.
[52:03.760 --> 52:14.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: When asked at a press conference whether the plug should be pulled on a website that discussed drug use in his past, Bush said in front of several television cameras, yes, and added there ought to be limits to freedom.
[52:17.300 --> 52:19.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's just like nobody gets it.
[52:19.160 --> 52:25.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nobody understands, like, individual, you know, rights, individual freedom of speech, that kind of thing.
[52:25.240 --> 52:25.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nobody gets it.
[52:25.940 --> 52:27.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nobody understands the importance of that.
[52:28.360 --> 52:29.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or maybe they do.
[52:29.440 --> 52:30.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe they realize the danger of it.
[52:31.020 --> 52:31.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe that's what it is.
[52:31.820 --> 52:34.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, freedom of speech is the most defended amendment.
[52:34.500 --> 52:42.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, you look at the Second Amendment, everybody seems to be, you know, falling over themselves trying to propose legislation to register handguns and everything else.
[52:43.600 --> 52:45.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, you got ten of them, folks.
[52:45.720 --> 52:46.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just not the one.
[52:47.020 --> 52:50.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know the first seems really important, but there are some other ones there.
[52:50.620 --> 52:52.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, the First Amendment is pretty damn clear.
[52:53.120 --> 52:53.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yeah.
[52:53.820 --> 52:56.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Second Amendment is like, you know, London fog.
[52:57.200 --> 52:58.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not really.
[52:58.060 --> 52:59.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't get me started on that.
[52:59.320 --> 52:59.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alright.
[52:59.800 --> 53:00.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Another time, then.
[53:02.420 --> 53:03.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, okay.
[53:03.440 --> 53:04.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll just say this, alright?
[53:04.860 --> 53:10.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: I should have nuclear weapons, because I am not going to overthrow the government with a pistol, alright?
[53:10.820 --> 53:13.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's what the Second Amendment supposedly is for.
[53:13.340 --> 53:18.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: For the American people to be able to rise up against the dictatorial powers of the regime.
[53:18.960 --> 53:24.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're not going to do that with a bunch of people walking around with, you know, with shotguns, rifles, and maybe the occasional Uzi.
[53:24.820 --> 53:25.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're not going to do that.
[53:25.640 --> 53:26.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Vietnamese might not do it.
[53:26.880 --> 53:28.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Vietnamese overthrew our government?
[53:28.340 --> 53:30.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, but they certainly kicked our butts.
[53:31.020 --> 53:31.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yeah.
[53:32.100 --> 53:34.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could go into all kinds of reasons why that happened.
[53:34.620 --> 53:45.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Point is, you're not going to see any overthrow of the government in this country anytime soon, because we don't have tanks, we don't have nuclear weapons, we don't have chemical weapons, even though they're technically illegal, we still manufacture them.
[53:45.800 --> 53:46.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we have the numbers.
[53:46.960 --> 53:53.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the thing is, the Second Amendment, nowhere in the Second Amendment are you going to find where it says that I cannot have nuclear weapons.
[53:53.740 --> 53:54.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's in the U.S.C.
[53:54.740 --> 53:56.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a constitutionally protected right...
[53:56.840 --> 53:57.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it in the U.S.C.?
[53:57.620 --> 54:04.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I have a constitutionally protected right to have nuclear weapons, and I will, I will protect my right to do that.
[54:05.060 --> 54:05.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Power to you.
[54:05.500 --> 54:05.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alright.
[54:06.460 --> 54:07.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who's with me?
[54:09.880 --> 54:12.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just email me, we'll get a little group started.
[54:12.560 --> 54:17.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: I still cringe at the direct association with the Second Amendment and overthrowing the United States government.
[54:17.140 --> 54:21.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: But that's what everybody, whenever I ask, you know, what do you need all these guns for?
[54:21.280 --> 54:26.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: They say, well, that's in the Constitution, it's in case the government gets out of hand, we have to do something about it.
[54:26.300 --> 54:29.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, in the Constitution, we're not supposed to have a standing army for more than two years.
[54:30.200 --> 54:33.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: The only military force that's supposed to be active is the United States Navy.
[54:34.160 --> 54:35.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: United States Navy?
[54:35.400 --> 54:37.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alright, well, this is a constitutional thing we've got to get into.
[54:37.980 --> 54:38.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Regardless, another time.
[54:38.420 --> 54:40.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: We only have seven minutes left, so let's take some phone calls.
[54:40.700 --> 54:42.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2900.
[54:42.200 --> 54:42.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go over here.
[54:42.620 --> 54:43.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[54:44.560 --> 54:45.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Speak up, please.
[54:45.760 --> 54:46.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
[54:46.380 --> 54:46.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, go ahead.
[54:47.040 --> 54:47.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, hi.
[54:47.880 --> 54:52.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: I was calling in reference to your earlier conversation regarding the prison rates.
[54:52.940 --> 54:53.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[54:53.540 --> 54:56.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and is this the person who was speaking?
[54:56.240 --> 54:57.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, you're on the air now.
[54:57.640 --> 54:58.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm on the air, okay.
[54:58.780 --> 55:01.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to let you know that I have a brother who's in prison.
[55:01.520 --> 55:04.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he is in New Hampshire State Prison.
[55:04.380 --> 55:08.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's a bit of an advocate on behalf of the prisoners there.
[55:08.420 --> 55:17.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: And what he had done was he actually instituted a lawsuit against the prison because they were charging those very ludicrous rates.
[55:17.940 --> 55:20.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that was with a carrier called LDS.
[55:21.000 --> 55:38.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he actually was very successful in getting the utilities commissioner up there to take a look at the contract and actually review the contract once again because what was happening was the prisoners' families were getting these really exorbitant bills for these prices.
[55:38.720 --> 55:42.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was about $3.75 for a set-up.
[55:42.980 --> 55:46.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it was, I think it was $0.55 a minute.
[55:46.220 --> 55:51.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Not as drastic as the rates in California, but just all the same, very high rates.
[55:52.240 --> 55:52.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[55:52.620 --> 55:53.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, definitely.
[55:53.240 --> 55:57.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Considering most of it's done by computer anyway, the idea of a set-up charge is rather ludicrous.
[55:57.580 --> 56:00.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really just a stigma.
[56:01.220 --> 56:11.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: The stigma, unfortunately, extends to the families of prisoners who are law-abiding and free citizens and therefore really shouldn't be subjected to these kinds of rates.
[56:11.980 --> 56:19.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I called up the phone company, I just couldn't believe how rude they were when they said to me, well, don't you realize these calls are coming from a prison?
[56:19.760 --> 56:21.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, of course I do.
[56:22.040 --> 56:32.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: I said, but don't you realize that because a person is in prison doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, there's a courtesy stigma that's just associated with their family.
[56:32.420 --> 56:47.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, they're in prison for a reason, but at the same time, is it right for the prison system to exploit free citizens who are on the outside and who are working and who are paying taxes and just happen to have a loved one who is in prison?
[56:47.800 --> 56:51.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and in many cases are not amongst the wealthy of the society.
[56:51.440 --> 56:52.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
[56:52.440 --> 56:54.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: In many cases, they are not.
[56:54.100 --> 57:03.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is a rehabilitative measure for them to have some type of contact to loved ones on the outside, and that's both for male and female prisoners.
[57:03.260 --> 57:04.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: So how successful was your brother?
[57:04.600 --> 57:05.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: What did he manage to get done?
[57:05.500 --> 57:06.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: He was very successful.
[57:06.820 --> 57:08.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: They did open the case.
[57:08.620 --> 57:11.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: They did actually do not go to court.
[57:11.740 --> 57:17.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: They actually stayed the case and said, if we take a look at it, will you stop your legal proceedings?
[57:18.140 --> 57:27.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, yes, if it's basically something that is, I would imagine, something that was more feasible for families to pay.
[57:27.720 --> 57:31.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, something a lot closer to regular rates would be nice.
[57:31.360 --> 57:31.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[57:31.860 --> 57:37.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Rates that, you know, they usually would pay if they were getting a call from someone else or making a call for that matter.
[57:37.740 --> 57:45.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: And what wound up happening was the telephone company, LDSI, spoke to their regional manager, and he said they had reviewed it.
[57:45.200 --> 57:58.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: The governor of New Hampshire was going to sign this new bill, new contract, into effect, and they were going to lower the setup from $3.50 to, I think, $1.50, and it went from $0.75 a minute to, I think, $0.15 a minute.
[57:59.020 --> 58:00.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's much better.
[58:00.580 --> 58:00.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[58:01.020 --> 58:02.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just hope it's true.
[58:02.660 --> 58:03.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope that really does happen.
[58:03.800 --> 58:04.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: So do I.
[58:04.100 --> 58:07.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: These are supposed to take effect on August 1st, but I would receive...
[58:07.820 --> 58:08.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in New York.
[58:08.400 --> 58:09.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: He's in New Hampshire.
[58:09.280 --> 58:17.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: I would receive maybe four calls to five calls a month from him, and my phone bills just for the long-distance portion would be anywhere from $100 to $140.
[58:18.300 --> 58:18.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[58:18.780 --> 58:21.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, this causes all kinds of problems with Kevin's family as well.
[58:21.480 --> 58:23.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Their phone bills are in the mega hundreds per month.
[58:24.000 --> 58:24.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[58:24.480 --> 58:24.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's horrible.
[58:25.040 --> 58:26.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: It really makes things very stressful.
[58:26.980 --> 58:27.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: It does.
[58:27.420 --> 58:29.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, you know, it's the courtesy stigma.
[58:29.480 --> 58:31.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're extorting the family is number one.
[58:31.660 --> 58:34.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: And number two, you know, they're there for rehabilitative purposes.
[58:34.100 --> 58:42.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't really give them much in rehabilitative purposes except for basic, you know, antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications, so chemical management.
[58:43.180 --> 58:43.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[58:43.580 --> 58:48.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the only outreach they really have, or social support, is through the phone systems.
[58:48.280 --> 58:48.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[58:48.680 --> 58:50.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: And now my brother's in New Hampshire.
[58:50.220 --> 58:50.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in New York.
[58:50.980 --> 58:52.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: I have to take a trip there tomorrow.
[58:52.340 --> 58:54.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: My trip takes five hours each way.
[58:55.260 --> 58:55.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[58:55.620 --> 58:58.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Imagine if they charge you double the gas price for driving to a prison.
[58:59.020 --> 58:59.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[58:59.320 --> 59:00.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the same basic thing, you know.
[59:00.760 --> 59:00.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[59:01.120 --> 59:01.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or double the hotel price.
[59:01.500 --> 59:02.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm going to a 7-Eleven down the street.
[59:02.860 --> 59:03.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[59:03.000 --> 59:03.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: To stay overnight.
[59:04.240 --> 59:09.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: So I really appreciated your piece, and I really wanted to call in and just tell you what my brother had gone through.
[59:10.140 --> 59:13.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he basically turned around and said, no, this is wrong.
[59:13.700 --> 59:18.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that takes a lot of courage, especially being in a prison and challenging a system like that.
[59:18.160 --> 59:18.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[59:18.420 --> 59:19.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: He usually does.
[59:19.300 --> 59:21.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: He's one of those so-called jailhouse lawyers.
[59:21.480 --> 59:22.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've ever heard the word.
[59:22.800 --> 59:23.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, yes.
[59:23.100 --> 59:24.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: On the street, but that's what they call them.
[59:25.000 --> 59:34.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he really challenges them, not only on that, but other types of things, too, that he finds that are out of the ordinary or, you know, just related to prisoners.
[59:34.900 --> 59:35.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's great.
[59:35.480 --> 59:38.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: As long as there's people like that, there's a chance that things will work out.
[59:38.920 --> 59:39.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Listen, we're out of time.
[59:39.920 --> 59:40.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, thank you.
[59:40.680 --> 59:42.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Give them our best and keep us updated.
[59:42.340 --> 59:42.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: I sure will.
[59:43.120 --> 59:43.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[59:43.880 --> 59:50.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: The address to write to Kevin Mitnick again is in his new location, which hopefully he won't be there too long.
[59:50.560 --> 59:52.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's being refused a proper diet.
[59:53.280 --> 59:54.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's really shocking.
[59:54.640 --> 01:00:09.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Kevin Mitnick, remember this number, very important, 990-830-0580, Central Detention Center, 630 East Rialto Avenue, that's spelled R-I-A-L-T-O, San Bernardino, California, 9-2-4-0-8.
[01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:17.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can send letters, you can send, I think, newspaper clippings, things like that.
[01:00:18.060 --> 01:00:21.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can send money orders made out to that name and number.
[01:00:21.860 --> 01:00:31.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's really needed at this point, because when he was forced to leave the Metropolitan Detention Center in Los Angeles, he didn't get any of the money that was supposed to go with him.
[01:00:31.860 --> 01:00:34.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it makes things a lot more difficult.
[01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:44.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, oh yes, we have to talk about the H2K, what we, in the last remaining 30 seconds, whoops, okay, we have no time.
[01:00:44.340 --> 01:00:54.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: So basically, we'll just say very quickly, as we play our theme music, that H2K will take place on July 14th, 15th, and 16th, 1999, in New York City.
[01:00:54.560 --> 01:00:58.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we will announce the location on the 2600 website this Friday.
[01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:01.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's www.2600.com.
[01:01:01.180 --> 01:01:01.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: So spread the word.
[01:01:02.100 --> 01:01:03.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: This Friday, the location will be announced.
[01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:06.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Until next week, it's Emmanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[01:01:06.460 --> 01:01:06.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good night.