Off The Hook - 1999-11-02

[00:02.010 --> 00:04.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...people to understand that feeling.
[00:04.970 --> 00:07.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: And with that, Jerry Kelly, thank you so much.
[00:09.510 --> 00:11.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if I can get this stuff to work.
[00:12.070 --> 00:13.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is pretty wild.
[00:16.450 --> 00:20.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Jerry, again, ladies and gentlemen, this is Mike Levine, the expert witness.
[00:21.550 --> 00:22.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: Triangle of Death is out there.
[00:22.830 --> 00:24.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to tune in next week.
[00:24.330 --> 00:26.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you guys are tape recording this.
[00:26.590 --> 00:30.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you're going to tape record this next week and the week after, because this is a classic.
[00:30.670 --> 00:33.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're just not going to hear it anywhere else.
[00:33.430 --> 00:34.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I'm engineering myself.
[00:35.010 --> 00:36.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the rough spots right here.
[00:36.770 --> 00:38.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I apologize for that.
[00:38.510 --> 00:40.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, mira, mi gente, be cool.
[00:41.130 --> 00:42.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hasta la semana que viene.
[00:42.250 --> 00:43.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Until next week.
[00:43.330 --> 00:44.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you too, Los Angelinos.
[00:45.670 --> 00:48.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mira, que no te lo pierdes.
[00:48.510 --> 00:49.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't miss this show, okay?
[00:59.220 --> 01:01.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: You were writing very slowly this morning.
[01:01.400 --> 01:04.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's because I don't always remember how to spell certain words.
[01:04.080 --> 01:04.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: You mean potato?
[01:05.060 --> 01:06.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I can spell potato.
[01:06.420 --> 01:06.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah?
[01:06.880 --> 01:07.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Spell it.
[01:07.320 --> 01:08.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't ask me to spell potato.
[01:08.760 --> 01:09.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why not?
[01:09.180 --> 01:11.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because I'm trying to remember how to spell WBAI.
[01:12.380 --> 01:12.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: WBAI?
[01:12.740 --> 01:14.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I made a membership pledge and I want to fulfill it.
[01:14.700 --> 01:16.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: You haven't fulfilled your pledge yet?
[01:16.140 --> 01:17.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm trying not to make any spelling errors.
[01:17.900 --> 01:19.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you trying to be the last person to pay?
[01:19.740 --> 01:20.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why, is there a prize for that?
[01:20.760 --> 01:21.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe a potato.
[01:21.800 --> 01:23.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just want the spelling to be correct.
[01:23.540 --> 01:25.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's WBAI Pacifica.
[01:25.500 --> 01:26.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I know how to spell Pacifica.
[01:26.900 --> 01:28.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: How do you spell WBAI?
[01:28.560 --> 01:30.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: W-B-A-I.
[01:30.380 --> 01:31.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, just like it sounds.
[01:31.220 --> 01:32.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now spell potato.
[01:32.020 --> 01:33.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not writing a check to a potato.
[01:34.060 --> 01:36.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, you're writing a check to WBAI.
[01:36.360 --> 01:39.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Fulfill your pledge to WBAI, spelled W-B-A-I.
[01:39.940 --> 01:41.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: There is no prize for being the last to pay.
[01:42.160 --> 01:44.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: No one will win, not even a potato.
[01:52.780 --> 01:55.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:55.860 --> 01:57.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: Time for Off the Hook.
[02:03.060 --> 02:24.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It could be yet much worse But if they could, they would Bumbin' Le Bon But I best expect the worst I hope that's understood Bumbin' Le Bon
[03:05.640 --> 03:16.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: And a very good evening This election day, 1999 The program is off the hook Emmanuel Goldstein here with you this Tuesday night And Isaac's here too?
[03:16.220 --> 03:18.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, I am Morning, Isaac Did you go to vote?
[03:18.560 --> 03:33.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh yeah, I sure did I was actually pretty amazed by the whole system I'm always amazed by the system Amazed by stupid things I'm amazed by intelligent things Intelligence being the actual machine You know, the actual voting machine That is a mechanical marvel,
[03:33.960 --> 03:49.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: that thing Because sometimes you have to vote for nine people On one particular area And, you know, only one person over here But it knows how many you voted for No matter which levers you pull There's something going on in there That's really pretty amazing And all it does is basically just,
[03:49.100 --> 04:02.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: you know Punch a, I guess, a hole through a ballot Or whatever it does On the other side, yeah Yeah, so But you've got to use the really big lever Yeah, yeah, you use the really big lever And you just feel like you've accomplished something But, yeah,
[04:02.820 --> 04:12.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: it's something I never cease marveling at And there's a lot of things I never cease marveling at So, there's one hour left in New York to vote Did you vote?
[04:12.320 --> 04:24.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: I voted That's good I don't advise people going outside now I really don't I almost died just now Walking into the building Yeah, you look a little damp there Well, just walking into the building From a few feet away First of all, I almost didn't make it into the building We have winds of,
[04:25.060 --> 04:42.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think, over 60 Actually, I think they're around 80 miles an hour We're right on the water here So, maybe that's got something to do with it Yeah, it's like a little wind tunnel at the end of Wall Street It's... I've never seen anything like this And I've been out in hurricanes The door to my car snapped right off It didn't fall off But it went snap And I think it's really broken now I don't know
[04:42.700 --> 04:43.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: what that is Is that insurance?
[04:43.880 --> 04:44.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Or is that an accident?
[04:44.680 --> 04:56.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know It's an act of God Act of God Well, I've got some things to say to God after the show You know, I never could figure this out either I was going through the poles on the...
[04:58.520 --> 04:59.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: What do you call it?
[04:59.120 --> 05:12.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Voting machine I'm a little flushing I'm also soaking wet I'm sitting on a stool So I won't get the chair wet It's a traumatic experience And I almost risked my life Putting the quarters into the meter That was the thing Everyone was laughing at me Standing on the sidewalk Because I'm trying to put quarters in the meter Like,
[05:12.760 --> 05:28.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: anyone's going to check now During a monsoon To see if there are quarters Think about that I didn't even know if the machine worked this time Because you can't see the display It's pretty silly But I was wondering You know, on their voting For the town highway clerk Right?
[05:28.200 --> 05:36.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: The person in charge of highways And this one running on the right-to-life party Now, what does the highway clerk Have anything to do with abortion?
[05:36.300 --> 05:54.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, it's really kind of silly When you think about it I mean, if this person's going to be thinking About issues like that When they're supposed to be thinking about potholes Maybe they won't make a very good highway clerk I don't know Those little things run through my mind In the 20 or so minutes I stood in the voting machine You were standing in the machine for 20 minutes?
[05:54.480 --> 06:06.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, yeah I had to think over every decision This is important, Isaac This is elections So you're that guy That I, like, have to stand behind forever Waiting for them to make up their mind Well, I got right in I didn't have to wait at all But, uh...
[06:06.040 --> 06:08.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay Yeah, I did hear some muttering As I was leaving
[06:16.100 --> 06:20.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Before you enter the actual machine It kind of speeds the process Yeah, I know But, uh...
[06:20.740 --> 06:23.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's an efficiency You don't really feel like you're voting Unless you're inside the actual, uh...
[06:23.820 --> 06:26.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: The actual booth Anyway, um...
[06:26.300 --> 06:33.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: Those of you in other parts of the country Where there aren't monsoons And where it's different time zones I'm sure you still have time to vote Of course, this isn't a major election This is, uh...
[06:33.300 --> 06:36.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: A minor election As far as, uh...
[06:36.360 --> 06:48.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: As far as candidates go You know, local candidates Things like that Although they are voting on things Like changing the city constitution So it is kind of important To get out there And voice your opinion on that Uh, what else happened this week?
[06:48.140 --> 07:11.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, we have a new area code Uh-oh I'm in a new area code now Oh, that's right Even though nowhere is it reflected Um, I do believe it works If you dial Let's see if we can get a dial tone here Okay I'm now in the 631 area code Which thrills me no end Let's see what happens When we call up the 2600 voicemail system Using 631 instead of 516
[07:15.430 --> 07:21.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: That little tone means it's going through I don't know what that tone means Oh, you know what that tone means?
[07:21.510 --> 07:32.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: It wants a long distance code Because our phone system is so stupid It thinks that that's long distance Even though it was never long distance I'm going to try I'll enter a long distance code And see if that makes it happy
[07:36.520 --> 08:02.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course, uh, 516 still works It will work until Okay, I think Bring it down and tap in the car Yeah, all right I wasn't sure what it was waiting for Let's see if that works 516 will still work until April 1st We're sorry The number you are calling Cannot receive calls at this time Please call again later That's interesting I never heard that recording before Have you paid your bill,
[08:02.820 --> 08:02.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: sir?
[08:03.180 --> 08:08.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Cannot receive calls Well, I can prove it I'll call it using the 516 Okay
[08:13.900 --> 08:17.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: No long distance code request Oh, you know what?
[08:17.500 --> 08:19.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: They do request long distance How about that?
[08:20.060 --> 08:35.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um Hopefully I remember what the code I just put in I guess I didn't remember it I'm still flustered From almost losing my life Just a few minutes ago Oh, well, that's okay We're patient Yeah I don't think I can remember the code now I've been put on the spot So,
[08:35.160 --> 08:37.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: uh I thought that was the same thing I just...
[08:37.340 --> 08:39.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, wait I think I remember it now This is the last time I'm going to try
[08:48.050 --> 08:53.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay There we go That's a winner
[08:57.120 --> 09:04.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, this should go right through It shouldn't get you a silly recording It should get our silly recording But nice Cannot receive calls at this time What does that mean?
[09:11.710 --> 09:24.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to make a call Please hang up and try again If you need help Stay on the line And a hacker will assist you shortly Welcome Okay That's, uh That's us That's us So we have to change all the stationery now?
[09:24.950 --> 09:33.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: All the stationery All the billboards Everything Everything that has a phone number in it Must be changed Oh We got a subsidy for this, right?
[09:33.660 --> 09:55.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Until the next time They decide to change an area code on us Hmm It's really annoying I heard, uh Westchester got to keep 914 And all the other counties are really upset That they have to switch their area code Sometime in the future So, uh That's, uh That's the latest as far as As far as that goes If you If you make a call from 631 It still shows up as 516 on caller ID devices And I believe
[09:55.570 --> 10:14.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: calling 800 numbers So actually It's as if it doesn't exist And here's the other weird thing I'm in 631 If I dial 1, 631 And a number It goes through And that doesn't make sense It shouldn't go through Because that's my area code It shouldn't, uh Allow that to go through Because most times When you dial your own area code It tells you not to do that And I know this is an overlay But this is an
[10:14.480 --> 10:34.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: exceptional overlay Where, uh You don't have to dial your own area code Maybe it's an optional thing It might, yeah For people who want to dial their area code I guess they Let that stay in It's a just-in-case sort of thing Or it could be Preparing for the future When they force us To dial our own area codes When we have 10-digit numbers All right Uh You hear about this,
[10:34.520 --> 10:38.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: uh Hacker attacking Kentucky County's weather sirens?
[10:38.840 --> 11:07.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I did not Oh, this comes from APBnews.com The Boone County Early Warning Weather System That alerts residents To a threatening storm Or a tornado Has been sabotaged By someone who has cloned The tones needed To trigger the alarm Over the last few weeks 29 sirens Scattered across this Rural Kentucky County Have gone off Prompting a flood of phone calls To the police Our outdoor emergency sirens
[11:07.020 --> 11:34.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have been activated At odd hours Such as 1 a.m And at 7 a.m On a recent Saturday You never get a storm then That's an odd hour Uh These did not come From our central dispatch It had to come from A remote location Either a fixed site Or a mobile site And we believe At this point That it came From our mobile site Ooh Yeah Uh It's according to Bill Appleby The county's Emergency Management Director
[11:35.920 --> 11:59.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: And county detective Oh So he's got a dual role there Figure out How things go Just by Just by The sound of the sirens I guess Officials believe That someone Is driving around the county With the electronic equipment And activating the warning system Officials don't know Whether this is the work Of a former employee Or just someone using electronic gear to pluck the tones out of the air.
[11:59.910 --> 12:02.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: You notice how the headline said the hacker did this?
[12:02.140 --> 12:04.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's absolutely no indication that there's anything having to do with hacking here.
[12:05.480 --> 12:07.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: They would probably not be able to do it through a personal computer.
[12:08.820 --> 12:13.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a radio wave transmission, so they would have to have access to our radio frequencies.
[12:13.620 --> 12:15.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: What does that mean?
[12:15.760 --> 12:17.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have access.
[12:17.170 --> 12:19.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do you realize everybody listening to this show now has access to our frequency?
[12:20.100 --> 12:21.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, what kind of nonsense is this?
[12:21.760 --> 12:25.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: They make it sound as if listening to a radio means getting access.
[12:25.920 --> 12:29.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Same stupidity led to cellular phones being illegal to listen to.
[12:30.120 --> 12:35.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: What we think at this point is that someone has taped or copied our tones in some manner.
[12:37.320 --> 12:38.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: In some manner.
[12:38.760 --> 12:42.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Like a tape recorder, perhaps, would be the manner we're thinking of here.
[12:42.580 --> 12:43.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Whoa, there's a high piece of technology there.
[12:44.040 --> 12:45.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're baffled down there in Kentucky.
[12:45.760 --> 12:47.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: They can't figure out how this could have happened.
[12:47.640 --> 12:51.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: Tones being sent clear across the airwaves, somebody somehow managed to duplicate them.
[12:51.760 --> 12:52.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: In some manner.
[12:54.060 --> 12:54.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[12:55.290 --> 12:59.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: We think it's a mobile unit where someone has a handheld radio and travels around.
[13:00.300 --> 13:04.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: Adding that sirens in neighboring Kenton County also have been set off.
[13:05.360 --> 13:11.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: He said that when dispatchers would try to turn off the sirens, another series of tones would then reactivate them.
[13:12.340 --> 13:12.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Gee whiz.
[13:12.940 --> 13:18.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: The sirens have blared for more than 20 minutes, but are only supposed to go off in three to five minute bursts.
[13:20.040 --> 13:25.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Appleby fears the sirens may get damaged, since they are not designed to run longer than a few minutes at a time.
[13:26.180 --> 13:27.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: The sirens sit atop poles.
[13:28.510 --> 13:30.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, gee, that's a good place to put them.
[13:31.440 --> 13:33.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Those underground sirens didn't quite work out, did they?
[13:34.300 --> 13:38.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they include an antenna so they can receive the activation tones from dispatchers.
[13:39.260 --> 13:43.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I would be more worried about the, you know, boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome here.
[13:44.320 --> 13:44.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's true.
[13:45.220 --> 13:45.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's true.
[13:46.060 --> 13:48.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: Than if the sirens suddenly become damaged.
[13:48.960 --> 13:52.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, there's also the stupidity factor here, but I'll get into that in just a moment.
[13:53.040 --> 13:57.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: This reminds me, though, of something we used to have out on the island, when we almost had a nuclear power plant.
[13:57.290 --> 13:57.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, yeah.
[13:57.900 --> 14:01.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they installed sirens all over the place until people started looking and saying, what are these sirens doing here?
[14:01.580 --> 14:02.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: What do they mean?
[14:02.060 --> 14:02.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: This could be bad.
[14:02.520 --> 14:04.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, and that's when the opposition really started to mount.
[14:05.060 --> 14:08.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I noticed on those sirens as many years ago that they had antennas like that.
[14:09.100 --> 14:11.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I was trying to find out the frequencies.
[14:11.260 --> 14:12.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wanted to know how it worked.
[14:12.440 --> 14:13.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: I really did.
[14:13.480 --> 14:25.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: In Holland, through a PogSag monitoring system, it's been figured out that the air raid sirens, which they still test on a particular day of the month, they're activated by a pager tone.
[14:25.940 --> 14:26.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hmm.
[14:27.040 --> 14:30.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: And if you get that information, then you have the ability to do it.
[14:30.640 --> 14:31.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can do it yourself.
[14:33.240 --> 14:39.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anyway, the Boone County Police are investigating the incidents, and the Federal Communications Commission has been notified.
[14:41.060 --> 14:47.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Appleby said that since the sirens are meant to alert residents to some kind of danger, their random activation is causing anxiety in some people.
[14:47.520 --> 14:51.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: He said starting this weekend, they would be trying to track the culprit making the calls.
[14:51.220 --> 14:52.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know what they waited for.
[14:53.680 --> 14:57.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: As of December 1st, we will start tracking the person down, so be warned.
[14:57.900 --> 15:10.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: We are hoping to get an electronic footprint from someone who may be activating a radio, either a base or mobile, see which one of our towers activates first, and then we would know at least the general vicinity.
[15:11.790 --> 15:15.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: He said that sirens are tested on a monthly basis and the public is notified.
[15:15.560 --> 15:18.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's then that the tones using the right equipment can be captured.
[15:19.460 --> 15:31.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: Steve Mackey, Sr., an emergency coordinator and communications and warning officer for a Missouri emergency agency, said it's possible to buy or modify a radio that can be programmed to mimic the correct tones.
[15:31.020 --> 15:39.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: But he said that activating an outdoor warning device, or OWD, is not that easy and requires some sophistication.
[15:40.000 --> 15:46.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: Many of the OWDs have microprocessor filters that require precise activating tone frequencies, similar to touch tones.
[15:46.960 --> 15:48.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: We know how precise those are.
[15:48.860 --> 15:50.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: And timing duration.
[15:50.400 --> 15:53.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: The difference in one millisecond will not activate the OWD.
[15:53.580 --> 15:56.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: Simply tape recording and replaying these will usually not work.
[15:56.100 --> 16:01.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course, if you're tape recording and playing them, you're capturing the tone and you're capturing the timing.
[16:02.170 --> 16:06.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: So they fail to explain why a good quality tape recording will not work.
[16:07.860 --> 16:16.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, I know with red boxes, you could record onto, you know, one of those little birds that recorded whatever noise you were making in the room and play it back.
[16:16.060 --> 16:20.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: You could record your red box tones onto one of those and hold that up to the phone and it would work.
[16:20.600 --> 16:23.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: So it's not exactly an exact science.
[16:24.000 --> 16:29.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mackey continued, The act usually involves transmitting on unauthorized radio frequencies and most do this on a somewhat frequent basis.
[16:30.200 --> 16:35.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Some agencies have communications specialists or agreements with ham radio operators to track down jammers.
[16:36.540 --> 16:43.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: Such an effort usually requires a specialized radio direction finding apparatus and prior experience using it.
[16:43.640 --> 16:46.790]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, it's not that difficult.
[16:48.100 --> 16:49.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: For these people, it is.
[16:49.900 --> 16:51.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're not all like us, all right?
[16:52.620 --> 16:53.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: They have problems sometimes.
[16:53.640 --> 17:07.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Boone County's Emergency Management Department is responsible for the planning and coordination of unified emergency response to any disaster or emergency situation in the county dealing with severe weather, flooding, fire, explosions, power failures,
[17:07.500 --> 17:11.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: riots, hazardous material incidents, and any other natural or man-made emergencies.
[17:11.790 --> 17:13.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the siren's not working properly.
[17:13.720 --> 17:17.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: A major project of the office is the expansion of the outdoor warning system.
[17:17.200 --> 17:21.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: Funding has been approved to purchase 12 additional outdoor warning sirens to be added to the existing warning sirens.
[17:22.380 --> 17:27.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're being installed to expand the warning coverage area, especially in the areas where outdoor activities take place.
[17:28.160 --> 17:34.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Activation of the sirens occurs when an actual sighting of a tornado or frontal cloud is confirmed or when the National Weather Service issues a warning for the county.
[17:35.180 --> 17:41.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: The sirens may also be activated at the discretion of the Emergency Management Office under certain conditions or for other public emergencies.
[17:43.100 --> 17:44.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's pretty simple.
[17:44.760 --> 17:52.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: If they're simply tone-activated using an over-the-air frequency, it seems pretty trivial.
[17:52.800 --> 17:54.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm surprised nobody has done this before.
[17:54.440 --> 17:56.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's something that is of interest to hackers.
[17:56.120 --> 18:01.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't think a hacker would go out and do something that socially irresponsible as far as actually starting evacuations and things like that.
[18:01.660 --> 18:04.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, there is a definite danger element here.
[18:05.360 --> 18:10.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's just an emergency services device that's supposed to save people's lives.
[18:10.720 --> 18:18.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you're just setting it off at random, there's a definite boy who cried wolf kind of thing going on here.
[18:18.560 --> 18:19.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is that the same story?
[18:19.560 --> 18:19.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, no.
[18:20.120 --> 18:20.790]  [SPEAKER_19]: Different wolf, right?
[18:20.960 --> 18:23.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Different wolves, different stories.
[18:23.400 --> 18:24.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: So Peter never cried wolf.
[18:24.880 --> 18:25.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, no, no.
[18:25.560 --> 18:27.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Peter wasn't the crier.
[18:27.270 --> 18:27.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[18:27.880 --> 18:38.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, you know, I did talk about the idea back in, I guess it was the 80s, early 80s, of figuring out how those sirens on Long Island worked and making them go off because nobody would know what they meant.
[18:38.650 --> 18:42.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: We don't have storm sirens out there, so all of a sudden this crazy siren starts going off.
[18:42.800 --> 18:43.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Nobody's going to understand it.
[18:44.120 --> 18:51.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, I think that was one of the major problems with the evacuation plan is that nobody heard the siren, nobody knew what it meant, and as a result, nobody did anything.
[18:51.400 --> 18:53.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, they couldn't exactly evacuate anyway.
[18:53.640 --> 18:54.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's true.
[18:54.120 --> 18:55.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's really no place to go except out into the water.
[18:56.060 --> 18:56.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[18:57.490 --> 18:59.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's one of the reasons why the plant never got finished.
[19:00.250 --> 19:06.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: There is something else that this reminds me of, though, and that's the new emergency alert system that the FCC has mandated.
[19:06.360 --> 19:06.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have you seen this?
[19:08.150 --> 19:08.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[19:08.510 --> 19:09.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, yeah, there's one in this room.
[19:09.990 --> 19:10.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's one over there.
[19:10.840 --> 19:11.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's true.
[19:11.420 --> 19:14.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: But have you seen this on actual TV or cable stations?
[19:15.060 --> 19:15.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, I have.
[19:15.510 --> 19:18.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: What scares me, first of all, it's different from EBS.
[19:18.770 --> 19:22.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: For those people who don't know, EBS is the one that had the single tone.
[19:22.120 --> 19:23.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: You might remember it from a couple of years ago.
[19:24.900 --> 19:27.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that was a voluntary system.
[19:27.750 --> 19:28.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is mandatory.
[19:29.100 --> 19:34.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And not only is it mandatory, but this system can take over your frequency.
[19:34.340 --> 19:35.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's designed to do that.
[19:35.680 --> 19:41.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's designed to actually override you, the broadcaster, with a signal from some other source.
[19:42.620 --> 19:43.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's pretty frightening.
[19:43.990 --> 19:51.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: And if you watch cable TV occasionally late at night, like around 3 in the morning sometimes, I think it's like on Thursday nights usually, they run a test.
[19:51.660 --> 19:54.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: And this test is not just on a station.
[19:54.320 --> 19:56.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: This test is on every single channel.
[19:56.800 --> 20:02.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Even the shopping text channels that they have there that nobody watches, they all get the test at the same time.
[20:02.660 --> 20:05.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: It really, it plays havoc if you're recording something, obviously.
[20:06.120 --> 20:08.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: But everybody gets the test at the same time.
[20:08.560 --> 20:13.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Every radio station gets it at different times, but the cable system, every channel gets it at the same time.
[20:13.460 --> 20:14.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's no escape from this thing.
[20:14.820 --> 20:15.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: There really isn't.
[20:15.380 --> 20:18.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now the thing that I find interesting is that there's a burst of tones.
[20:19.080 --> 20:23.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've never actually recorded it because I never was actually lucky enough to be there when it was recording.
[20:23.400 --> 20:26.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: But if anyone out there has been playing around with this, I'd like to know more.
[20:26.770 --> 20:32.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's something we'd certainly be willing to do an article about in 2600 or something like that.
[20:32.400 --> 20:35.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: I hope it's not as easy as setting off a siren.
[20:36.060 --> 20:40.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, imagine if you called up, you know, who's that guy broadcast out of the desert?
[20:42.130 --> 20:43.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, on the radio show late at night.
[20:44.140 --> 20:44.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, Art Bell.
[20:44.860 --> 20:47.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, imagine if you call up Art Bell and you play an EAS tone.
[20:49.390 --> 20:52.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Several hundred stations around the country go into emergency alert mode.
[20:53.490 --> 20:54.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is it that easy?
[20:54.700 --> 20:59.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, if it is, then someone needs a severe talking to as far as designing these systems.
[20:59.580 --> 21:01.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: I hope not, and I actually doubt it.
[21:01.490 --> 21:04.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: I doubt it too, but we won't know until we actually look into it.
[21:06.150 --> 21:08.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, let's take a look at some listener mail.
[21:11.130 --> 21:16.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, or you can call us in just a couple of minutes at 212-209-2900.
[21:19.370 --> 21:20.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's surprisingly quiet outside.
[21:21.200 --> 21:23.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's like the whole city has been destroyed by the storm.
[21:25.010 --> 21:26.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: My car's going to be overturned when I go downstairs.
[21:27.040 --> 21:27.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know that.
[21:27.510 --> 21:28.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: If it hasn't floated down Wall Street.
[21:28.960 --> 21:31.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: It felt like my car was being lifted off the ground a couple of times.
[21:31.250 --> 21:31.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: It really did.
[21:31.770 --> 21:32.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's how scary this was.
[21:34.870 --> 21:41.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anyway, you're off the hook after seeing how concerned you were with the hospital records on a phone system I thought you might like to know the following.
[21:42.600 --> 21:45.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Lately, my friends and I have been going dumpster diving looking for old computers.
[21:46.180 --> 21:49.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: On an adventurous journey, we came upon what we couldn't believe.
[21:51.100 --> 22:01.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: At a normal-looking business's dumpster, we found thousands of papers containing patient medical history with dental records, doctor's comments, and tons of personal information.
[22:01.820 --> 22:07.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: Being 16-year-old kids on a rush, we decided to back the car up and start shoveling the papers into the trunk.
[22:07.480 --> 22:09.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: When we got home, we started sorting them out.
[22:09.620 --> 22:17.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: There were lists of thousands of social security numbers with names, 20-page pamphlets that included a patient's complete medical history, and more.
[22:18.400 --> 22:20.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: While thinking it was cool, we also found it somewhat disturbing.
[22:21.100 --> 22:24.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: This company didn't take the time to shred all this personal information.
[22:24.920 --> 22:30.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: There were no signs of the building saying we shouldn't be there, and the dumpster was in plain sight of the whole parking lot.
[22:30.960 --> 22:33.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Since there were so many papers, we only had time to go through half of it.
[22:33.820 --> 22:35.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was still another full box in my car.
[22:36.430 --> 22:42.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know if you guys are at all interested in this story due to it not having anything to do with anything electronic, but I feel that people should be aware.
[22:43.790 --> 22:47.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's definitely of interest, and this came from three people, Firdaus, I.O.
[22:47.920 --> 22:48.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Byrne, and Evil Boy.
[22:50.830 --> 22:55.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I want to thank you for bringing this to our attention, but I think what should be done now...
[22:55.320 --> 22:57.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, they enclosed a printout.
[22:59.540 --> 23:01.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: A printout of all these social security numbers there.
[23:03.210 --> 23:05.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I don't think the social security number is the most...
[23:05.940 --> 23:10.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, it's not, but that's what gets people to wake up and say, hey, that's my social security number.
[23:10.380 --> 23:11.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: I should be lying around out there.
[23:11.440 --> 23:12.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: The patient records, obviously.
[23:12.880 --> 23:18.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, what gets people to wake up is if you were to call these folks at a reasonable hour and say, hi, my name is...
[23:18.660 --> 23:19.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: And you give your actual name.
[23:19.780 --> 23:22.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: I found this information just sitting outside of your doctor's office.
[23:23.560 --> 23:26.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Perhaps you might want to call him and discuss with him their...
[23:26.400 --> 23:27.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, the thing is...
[23:27.980 --> 23:28.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: How they deal with it.
[23:28.520 --> 23:29.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't think that was a doctor's office.
[23:29.620 --> 23:31.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think it was some sort of corporation.
[23:31.020 --> 23:32.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Corporation or HMO or something?
[23:32.480 --> 23:33.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, deals with things like this.
[23:33.720 --> 23:40.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I'm sure that if they got about 500 calls from some people who use the corporation, they might do something bad.
[23:40.040 --> 23:49.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: The other problem with that is that when you tell people something like that, nine times out of ten, their reaction is to be hostile towards you as if you're the person who did it.
[23:49.500 --> 23:49.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: True.
[23:50.020 --> 23:53.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: As opposed to the real, like, what are we doing in the garbage can anyway?
[23:53.700 --> 23:54.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's garbage.
[23:55.040 --> 23:59.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: People don't realize that this stuff should be destroyed before it's thrown out.
[23:59.760 --> 24:00.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: It should not be...
[24:01.300 --> 24:04.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: basically just, you know, made public as this was.
[24:04.720 --> 24:06.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: But unfortunately, this isn't at all surprising.
[24:06.400 --> 24:06.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, it's not.
[24:06.900 --> 24:18.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I think when people come across something like this, they should immediately go to some sort of media source and start contacting through them, I would imagine, or through other channels, the people that are involved.
[24:18.740 --> 24:21.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Get some lawsuits started here because this is definitely...
[24:21.220 --> 24:22.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: These people can sue this company.
[24:22.920 --> 24:25.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: They can put them out of business, in fact, for this kind of negligence.
[24:25.400 --> 24:28.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm recommending actually contacting a handful of them or so.
[24:28.660 --> 24:28.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[24:29.280 --> 24:29.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, you know...
[24:29.900 --> 24:31.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, if you use the buffer of the media.
[24:32.020 --> 24:33.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, certain media.
[24:33.460 --> 24:36.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: We've had our problems with different media, but...
[24:36.580 --> 24:38.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's certainly true.
[24:38.280 --> 24:38.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's true.
[24:38.880 --> 24:39.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Anyway.
[24:39.560 --> 24:42.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it's something that you just can't ignore.
[24:43.200 --> 24:46.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Something like this happens, you have to bring it to people's attention.
[24:46.760 --> 24:48.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that's a parallel to hacking right there.
[24:49.040 --> 24:52.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, this may not have anything to do with something electronic, even though it is a computer printout.
[24:52.500 --> 24:53.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just being responsible.
[24:53.260 --> 25:02.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's got to do with privacy and the continuing lack of respect of privacy in the people that we entrust it to.
[25:02.940 --> 25:08.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: Phone company people, credit companies, medical companies, you name it.
[25:09.820 --> 25:14.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course, hackers get blamed for discovering it, but maybe we can look beyond that and see what the real problem is.
[25:15.140 --> 25:18.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, here's another piece of mail here.
[25:18.620 --> 25:22.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Someone advising us to call an Omnipoint number, which we're going to do.
[25:22.100 --> 25:22.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: We haven't done this yet.
[25:25.260 --> 25:28.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: This person says, if you try accessing it with a rotary phone...
[25:29.740 --> 25:30.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: Unfortunately, I don't have one.
[25:31.380 --> 25:33.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we just won't hit in any tones.
[25:33.680 --> 25:33.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[25:36.640 --> 25:40.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And if you do that, apparently, it's very rude to you.
[25:41.120 --> 25:41.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's see.
[25:43.160 --> 25:46.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: Shouldn't ask for a long-distance code that's an 800 number.
[25:49.440 --> 25:51.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to Omnipoint.
[25:51.200 --> 25:53.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: To continue in English, please press 1.
[25:54.160 --> 25:55.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bienvenido a Omnipoint.
[25:55.900 --> 25:59.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Por favor, presione el 2 para continuar en español.
[26:00.980 --> 26:03.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, now, we're not going to hit anything because we have a rotary phone.
[26:05.440 --> 26:07.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: That is an invalid entry.
[26:07.300 --> 26:08.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Please try again.
[26:08.300 --> 26:08.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: You see?
[26:08.880 --> 26:10.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to Omnipoint.
[26:10.240 --> 26:10.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: But there was no entry.
[26:10.800 --> 26:12.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: To continue in English, please press 1.
[26:13.400 --> 26:14.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bienvenido a Omnipoint.
[26:14.880 --> 26:19.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Por favor, presione el 2 para continuar en español.
[26:19.900 --> 26:21.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Click, click, click.
[26:21.640 --> 26:22.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: You think so?
[26:22.300 --> 26:24.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, no, I'm trying to do the clicks.
[26:24.560 --> 26:26.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: That is an invalid entry.
[26:26.320 --> 26:26.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[26:26.560 --> 26:27.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Please try again.
[26:27.860 --> 26:29.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to Omnipoint.
[26:29.580 --> 26:31.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: To continue in English, she sounds more upset every time she says it.
[26:32.560 --> 26:33.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bienvenido a Omnipoint.
[26:34.260 --> 26:38.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Por favor, presione el 2 para continuar en español.
[26:38.380 --> 26:40.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, right about now, they should be figuring out we don't have a touch-tone phone.
[26:43.300 --> 26:44.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, what are we going to do?
[26:44.300 --> 26:45.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're calling Omnipoint.
[26:45.900 --> 26:46.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Goodbye.
[26:47.380 --> 26:47.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey.
[26:48.280 --> 26:49.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wow, they're right about this.
[26:50.240 --> 26:53.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: They certainly don't want to do a business if you don't have a touch-tone phone, apparently.
[26:53.680 --> 26:55.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: I wonder if they're equally curt in Spanish.
[26:56.900 --> 26:58.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, how can they be?
[26:58.320 --> 26:59.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: You don't select Spanish.
[26:59.200 --> 27:00.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: you can't choose number 2.
[27:00.800 --> 27:01.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[27:03.140 --> 27:06.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: I guess if you choose number 2 and then don't do anything, they might get upset, too.
[27:06.040 --> 27:06.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: They might get upset, too.
[27:07.680 --> 27:10.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, okay, just to even it out, though, I've got to gripe about Sprint now.
[27:10.840 --> 27:11.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sprint PCS.
[27:11.840 --> 27:12.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, don't get me started.
[27:12.740 --> 27:25.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, no, now this time it's going to get personal, okay, because it goes beyond the corporation of Sprint PCS and goes right down to the people at that Flatiron building, you know, which is where their headquarters are, their Sprint store.
[27:25.660 --> 27:26.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, it's a Sprint store.
[27:26.680 --> 27:28.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a Sprint store, but it's the biggest one in New York.
[27:28.780 --> 27:32.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's the one where you go if you want to be seen at a Sprint store.
[27:32.560 --> 27:32.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[27:33.000 --> 27:36.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I went there, I wanted to buy a new phone because this phone I have over here is a piece of garbage.
[27:38.300 --> 27:39.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: Don't get me started on that.
[27:40.420 --> 27:41.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: We've already had this discussion.
[27:41.660 --> 27:42.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: Samsung Radio Show.
[27:42.700 --> 27:45.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: Jack, what, a bunch of words I can't say.
[27:45.780 --> 27:46.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anyways, you're at the Flatiron building.
[27:46.740 --> 27:50.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, so I wanted to buy a new phone because I wanted to replace that phone I have, which really...
[27:50.800 --> 27:51.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[27:52.900 --> 27:54.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: I got to tell you horror stories about this thing.
[27:55.260 --> 27:56.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've already heard most of them.
[27:57.620 --> 28:01.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was trying to figure out if I'm going to throw it out the window when I'm done with it or just what exactly.
[28:01.260 --> 28:03.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: But anyway, yeah, I wanted to buy a new phone.
[28:04.320 --> 28:04.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: Qualcomm.
[28:05.040 --> 28:11.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a nice phone that has a standby time supposedly several days as opposed to my phone that has a standby time of a few minutes.
[28:13.680 --> 28:14.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I wanted to go there.
[28:14.640 --> 28:15.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: I knew exactly what kind to get.
[28:16.340 --> 28:17.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Saw it in the brochure.
[28:18.240 --> 28:25.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: All these people in the store sitting down just there looking like they were there all day actually.
[28:25.660 --> 28:26.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Crowded.
[28:26.320 --> 28:26.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: Probably were.
[28:27.120 --> 28:27.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, just sitting there.
[28:28.960 --> 28:32.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there was a counter for sales.
[28:34.060 --> 28:39.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I walked up to the counter for sales and I said, I'd like to buy this phone.
[28:40.840 --> 28:47.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they looked at me and said, well, you're going to have to go to customer service for that to buy the phone.
[28:47.260 --> 28:48.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: You have to go to customer service.
[28:48.420 --> 28:49.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'm like, okay, where's customer service?
[28:49.840 --> 28:52.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's over on the other side of the store but you have to take a number.
[28:53.600 --> 28:56.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, keep in mind, I come in here, I know exactly what kind of phone I want to buy.
[28:57.260 --> 29:02.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'd like for this to be over in a couple of minutes and they're telling me I have to take a number and they told me, I asked them, how long do I have to wait?
[29:02.980 --> 29:03.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: About a half hour.
[29:04.240 --> 29:04.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[29:04.420 --> 29:06.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: To wait a half hour to buy something that I already know.
[29:06.920 --> 29:10.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: And what is the point of the sales desk if they don't sell things?
[29:11.260 --> 29:15.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, the point of the sales desk is to entrap more and more people into their services.
[29:15.900 --> 29:18.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: You see, they're really nice when you buy your first phone.
[29:19.200 --> 29:21.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Did you tell them that you were a previous customer?
[29:21.600 --> 29:22.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think eventually I did.
[29:22.820 --> 29:25.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, but the thing is, I wanted to buy something.
[29:25.720 --> 29:26.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's a sale.
[29:27.280 --> 29:28.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's a sales desk.
[29:28.460 --> 29:30.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have you ever tried to pay your bill there?
[29:30.740 --> 29:31.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: No.
[29:31.600 --> 29:33.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, that's an entirely...
[29:33.840 --> 29:35.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, they charge you money to pay the bill there.
[29:35.520 --> 29:37.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's true, if you don't drop it in a slot.
[29:37.200 --> 29:37.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Even I know that.
[29:38.500 --> 29:40.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, here I am.
[29:40.420 --> 29:41.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: I want to buy a phone.
[29:41.860 --> 29:42.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: The phone is there.
[29:43.340 --> 29:45.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: Why is it so hard for them to give me the phone?
[29:45.580 --> 29:46.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'll give them money.
[29:46.480 --> 29:47.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: They give me the phone.
[29:47.320 --> 29:56.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Instead, I have to do it this crazy Eastern European way of waiting online for a half hour to get something that we all know is what I want and they have.
[29:56.920 --> 30:03.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the thing is, everybody there looks so subdued as if they'd already been through this and they had been defeated.
[30:03.480 --> 30:03.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[30:03.760 --> 30:07.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they were just sitting there knowing they had to wait a half hour just to...
[30:07.300 --> 30:09.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: Everyone's will has been broken.
[30:09.620 --> 30:10.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's so sad.
[30:10.720 --> 30:11.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: It really is.
[30:11.560 --> 30:11.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: It is.
[30:12.220 --> 30:12.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, I just...
[30:12.940 --> 30:14.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: I walked out of the place.
[30:14.140 --> 30:15.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, actually, I asked one other question too.
[30:15.420 --> 30:17.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you recall, any Sprint PCS customer should know this.
[30:17.740 --> 30:20.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Over the past week, voicemail has been completely broken.
[30:20.680 --> 30:21.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, it has.
[30:21.360 --> 30:22.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: You've noticed that, right?
[30:22.340 --> 30:26.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: People have said they have left me voicemail or voicemail doesn't even answer.
[30:26.620 --> 30:27.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Voicemail doesn't answer.
[30:27.420 --> 30:28.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can't access your voicemail.
[30:29.040 --> 30:29.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: The phone rings forever.
[30:30.720 --> 30:31.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's horrible.
[30:31.600 --> 30:35.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, I basically just, you know, asked them, well, do you know what the problem is with voicemail?
[30:35.880 --> 30:38.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: And right away, without a moment's hesitation, there is no problem with voicemail.
[30:40.240 --> 30:44.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: As if they're reading it off the script there and that's the official word.
[30:44.240 --> 30:45.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: There is no problem with voicemail.
[30:46.220 --> 30:49.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, I feel like I'm walking back into the dark ages of humanity here.
[30:49.200 --> 30:54.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: But you see, the people's will have already been broken so it's just as possible for them to get to believe that as well.
[30:55.080 --> 30:55.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's true.
[30:55.640 --> 30:56.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: But these are the people behind the counter.
[30:56.960 --> 30:59.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: What you should have done is just like dropped the cash on the desk and walked out with the phone.
[30:59.900 --> 31:00.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: Was it in your hand?
[31:00.680 --> 31:01.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, the phone wasn't anywhere.
[31:01.900 --> 31:02.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: They hide the phones.
[31:03.160 --> 31:05.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: The phones are somewhere in the back stock room.
[31:05.240 --> 31:08.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: They have all the brochures for the phone out there and I, you know, I knew what I wanted.
[31:08.760 --> 31:11.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: So now, I'm going to have to buy this online and pay for shipping.
[31:11.840 --> 31:12.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm paying for their stupidity.
[31:14.460 --> 31:16.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, that sure does.
[31:16.120 --> 31:21.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: And plus, I wanted to hold it in my hand and see what it felt like and, you know, put the extra battery on and see what that was like and I can't do any of that now.
[31:22.320 --> 31:24.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Why don't you go out to a Sprint PCS store by hand?
[31:24.540 --> 31:25.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just don't understand.
[31:25.480 --> 31:27.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: How did they come up with this way of doing business?
[31:27.940 --> 31:29.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: Who said this is a good idea?
[31:29.660 --> 31:29.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know?
[31:30.080 --> 31:33.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, it's not a good idea but they get away with it because people are sheep.
[31:34.160 --> 31:39.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anything that makes a radio shack look efficient has got to be the most incredibly dumb thing ever to be invented.
[31:40.460 --> 31:42.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, yes, I don't have my new phone yet.
[31:43.220 --> 31:47.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're going to have to wait until a couple of weeks however long it takes.
[31:48.640 --> 31:48.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[31:50.240 --> 31:51.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: Real Networks.
[31:51.360 --> 31:52.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: You've heard about this.
[31:52.580 --> 31:54.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Real Jukebox monitors...
[31:54.940 --> 32:02.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Real Jukebox software monitors user listening habits and other activities and reports the information and the user identity to the company according to the New York Times.
[32:02.720 --> 32:06.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: A security expert intercepted and examined information generated from the program.
[32:07.140 --> 32:07.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: I.e.
[32:07.480 --> 32:08.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: you run a sniffer.
[32:08.420 --> 32:08.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[32:08.820 --> 32:10.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's something anybody can do.
[32:10.400 --> 32:15.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Company officials acknowledge that Real Jukebox gathers information on what users are playing and recording.
[32:15.880 --> 32:25.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: Real Jukebox, a competitor of Apple's QuickTime multimedia software, is used to play CDs on computers and can copy music to a user's hard drive and download music from the internet.
[32:26.440 --> 32:34.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: Dave Richards, Real Network's vice president for consumer products, told the Times that the company gathered the information to customize service for individual users.
[32:35.540 --> 32:43.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: Richards and other company officials said the practice did not violate consumer privacy because the data was not stored by the company or released to other companies.
[32:43.480 --> 32:45.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: So why were they collecting it?
[32:45.280 --> 32:46.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: How could it not have been stored?
[32:46.780 --> 32:51.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: They were just gathering it and looking at it as it went by and not storing it in any place.
[32:51.500 --> 32:52.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's fascinating.
[32:52.540 --> 33:03.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: But privacy advocates and security experts agreed that it was a violation of the privacy of the 13.5 million registered users of Real Jukebox, particularly because Real Networks has not informed consumers.
[33:03.220 --> 33:05.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: They are being identified and monitored.
[33:05.340 --> 33:10.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: How familiar is this kind of a story where you discover this kind of thing because somebody else blows the whistle on it?
[33:11.980 --> 33:21.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the fact that Real Networks gathers the information is not mentioned in the privacy policy posted on its website or the licensing agreement users must approve when installing Real Jukebox.
[33:22.420 --> 33:24.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: I smell a class action suit there.
[33:24.860 --> 33:25.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: Ooh.
[33:25.400 --> 33:25.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[33:25.700 --> 33:26.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's an idea.
[33:27.000 --> 33:28.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Dear Off the Hook, I hate Real Player.
[33:28.560 --> 33:30.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is the Real Player hate hour.
[33:30.400 --> 33:30.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Ooh.
[33:30.880 --> 33:33.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: Even though a lot of our listeners are listening to us right now on Real Player.
[33:34.160 --> 33:34.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello out there.
[33:35.680 --> 33:36.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: I hate Real Player.
[33:36.860 --> 33:37.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: I despise it.
[33:37.640 --> 33:40.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: You say on your site that you have live distribution methods.
[33:41.520 --> 33:43.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: But there aren't any MP3s on your site.
[33:43.940 --> 33:47.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: I realize that a 60 minute long MP3 would be roughly 70 megs.
[33:47.380 --> 33:47.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: What?
[33:47.500 --> 33:48.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I'm really...
[33:48.860 --> 33:49.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, no.
[33:49.360 --> 33:50.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: It would be about 36, I think.
[33:50.860 --> 33:52.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, smaller than that.
[33:52.440 --> 33:53.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not much smaller.
[33:53.180 --> 33:53.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: For our show?
[33:54.420 --> 33:54.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, yeah.
[33:55.040 --> 33:55.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: For our show.
[33:57.060 --> 33:57.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[33:57.780 --> 34:00.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know what you've been smoking, but don't smoke in here.
[34:01.500 --> 34:02.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we'll talk about that later.
[34:03.420 --> 34:04.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'd like to know if that's true.
[34:04.440 --> 34:05.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't think it is.
[34:05.400 --> 34:06.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: I really hate Real Player.
[34:06.540 --> 34:07.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: He mentions this again.
[34:07.800 --> 34:11.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I would download a 70 megabyte file any day because I have DSL and it's like nothing.
[34:11.840 --> 34:13.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, uh...
[34:13.020 --> 34:13.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi.
[34:13.360 --> 34:14.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Our side for the server?
[34:14.700 --> 34:15.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, our side...
[34:15.240 --> 34:15.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's definitely something.
[34:15.880 --> 34:16.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: It would definitely be a big thing.
[34:18.580 --> 34:20.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, so here's the thing.
[34:20.560 --> 34:25.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're looking at alternative ways to get the signal out there, including QuickTime streaming, which...
[34:25.420 --> 34:27.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: I still like the two paper cup and the string.
[34:27.640 --> 34:28.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, that doesn't work very well.
[34:29.460 --> 34:29.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: If...
[34:29.900 --> 34:31.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're looking for a QuickTime streamer, in fact.
[34:31.860 --> 34:42.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: So if there are people out there that would like to get involved in that, email us OTH at 2600.com and that's a possibility for an alternative to real audio.
[34:42.620 --> 34:43.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: QuickTime is cool.
[34:43.760 --> 34:44.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, it is.
[34:44.360 --> 34:45.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sounds really good, too.
[34:47.360 --> 34:49.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Alright, see if you have any other pieces of mail.
[34:49.760 --> 34:50.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: We do have to take some phone calls.
[34:50.620 --> 34:53.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: 212-209-2900.
[34:55.100 --> 35:00.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's read this one more letter and then we'll move on to the phones.
[35:02.080 --> 35:09.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Dear Off the Hook, I'm not what you would call a phone freak, but I've been into computers since my dad brought home a MITS Altair 8800?
[35:09.860 --> 35:10.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[35:11.220 --> 35:12.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: About 1974.
[35:12.440 --> 35:12.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[35:12.980 --> 35:15.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I once met Captain Crunch, John Draper.
[35:15.960 --> 35:16.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[35:16.340 --> 35:17.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: At an early microcomputer convention.
[35:18.540 --> 35:21.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've done a little bit of exploring with the telephone system in my time.
[35:22.380 --> 35:25.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: And not too long ago I had an experience that I think might interest you.
[35:25.700 --> 35:27.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was working as a long-haul trucker.
[35:27.860 --> 35:29.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm back in the computer industry now, thank God.
[35:30.600 --> 35:33.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: Back then I found myself in Indianapolis with a load heading west.
[35:33.960 --> 35:40.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not far outside of Indy there's a well-maintained rest area with indoor pay phones and I was in the habit of stopping there whenever I was in the area.
[35:40.260 --> 35:42.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: I had a girlfriend in Canada at the time.
[35:42.020 --> 35:47.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: I would often call her from these pay phones because they were shielded from the wind and situated inside a heated building.
[35:47.920 --> 35:57.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Normally I would drop my change into the slot, dial the number, funnel another 5 or 10 pounds of change into the phone in order to comply with the computerized voice's demands and my call would be completed.
[35:58.460 --> 36:05.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: On this particular occasion, however, I was kind of punchy from lack of sleep and I forgot to put money in the phone before dialing the number.
[36:06.420 --> 36:13.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: The phone made the usual noises then the handset went dead for about a half second and my call was connected.
[36:13.860 --> 36:14.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hmm.
[36:15.600 --> 36:30.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: At first I thought it was just a fluke but I did a little experimenting just to see what would happen and found that I was able to dial calls anywhere in the world on any pay phone in the building and if I didn't put change in before dialing the handset would go dead for half a second and then the call would be connected.
[36:31.260 --> 36:32.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I like that.
[36:32.560 --> 36:33.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: He stumbled upon the secret.
[36:34.260 --> 36:34.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's true.
[36:34.840 --> 36:36.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: Every pay phone in the world does that.
[36:36.080 --> 36:37.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: You see what patience will grant you?
[36:37.760 --> 36:38.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's true.
[36:38.960 --> 36:42.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: This situation did not change over the course of about 6 months.
[36:42.960 --> 36:48.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: Every time I went through Indianapolis I stopped at that rest area and checked the phones and every time they connected me no problem.
[36:48.720 --> 36:52.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: I checked some other rest areas in the vicinity but none of them had free phones.
[36:52.840 --> 36:59.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: The phone company never called my girlfriend to inquire about the free long distance call I inadvertently made so I have to assume that they never found out about it.
[36:59.740 --> 37:00.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Until now.
[37:00.520 --> 37:04.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: I never told anyone about this before so it's possible that I was the only person who knew about it.
[37:04.920 --> 37:09.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wouldn't be surprised if the phones at that rest area still operated in this abnormal fashion.
[37:09.360 --> 37:10.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have you ever heard of anything like this?
[37:10.800 --> 37:12.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do you know what might have been the cause?
[37:12.260 --> 37:17.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I can guess what the cause was for no call going through.
[37:17.540 --> 37:32.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: When you basically when you make a phone call from a regular bell operated telephone they're looking to have the money in there that reflects the number of calls that are made but I don't think any real record is kept of money to call.
[37:32.540 --> 37:37.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: For instance if they're short 20 bucks or something like that they're not going to know which call didn't put in the money.
[37:37.980 --> 37:39.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't think there's any way to really tell that.
[37:40.700 --> 37:41.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: I might be wrong about this.
[37:42.120 --> 38:01.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: I haven't really studied pay funds that much and we're talking about pay funds from the 70s so if anyone has knowledge of that please let us know but I imagine that's probably the reason why it wasn't seen as plus I don't think people get calls if they redbox calls on pay funds I don't think they call back the people that you call and say hey somebody redboxed this call and I don't think they can
[38:01.620 --> 38:09.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: tell they can't tell the difference between a coin and a tone you know just like the sirens I can't tell the difference between a real thing and just an imitation.
[38:10.520 --> 38:17.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'd like to hear more stories from the past, from the 60s, 70s, even the 80s, of phone flukes, things like this.
[38:17.440 --> 38:19.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: So please, by all means, send them in to us.
[38:19.760 --> 38:28.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, or, off the hook, here at WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 10005.
[38:28.960 --> 38:31.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, we have a full switchboard, so let's get right to it.
[38:31.580 --> 38:33.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: 212-209-2900.
[38:33.980 --> 38:34.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi, Rebel.
[38:34.580 --> 38:35.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[38:35.440 --> 38:38.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, Manuel, I have some phone stories from the past.
[38:38.860 --> 38:45.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of course, as you know, I am a very, I guess you could say, used to be a very hardcore phone freak.
[38:47.160 --> 38:57.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, I used to, the way I used to read boxes, I used to take three payphones and put the quarters in one payphone and hold the receiver to the other payphone.
[39:01.700 --> 39:02.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you know that?
[39:04.280 --> 39:04.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[39:07.020 --> 39:07.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Emanuel?
[39:08.460 --> 39:09.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Are you there?
[39:10.580 --> 39:11.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[39:13.580 --> 39:13.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[39:16.520 --> 39:16.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[39:21.220 --> 39:23.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm hearing an echo here.
[39:23.780 --> 39:24.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know what this is.
[39:24.680 --> 39:29.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: A public service announcement.
[39:30.340 --> 39:31.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[39:35.750 --> 39:36.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hello?
[39:37.530 --> 39:38.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel?
[39:39.750 --> 39:40.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel?
[39:41.870 --> 39:42.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hello?
[39:45.470 --> 39:46.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel?
[39:47.170 --> 39:47.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hello?
[39:51.170 --> 39:54.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: We have a clean system, I think we're going to call it.
[39:55.030 --> 39:56.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: We've been by.
[39:58.530 --> 40:00.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, I think we're back.
[40:00.930 --> 40:05.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: Don't you just hate when you're on Greyhound and you, you know...
[40:05.070 --> 40:10.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: They say that, you know, if you use Greyhound a certain amount of times, you get a free round-trip ticket.
[40:10.470 --> 40:11.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's like, guess what?
[40:11.970 --> 40:13.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: It costs $20!
[40:14.550 --> 40:16.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's right, it costs $20.
[40:16.710 --> 40:18.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: What kind of a discount costs $20?
[40:18.810 --> 40:21.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, that's not a discount if you have to pay for it.
[40:21.550 --> 40:28.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: In other words, if you use, if you go on, if you make three round-trips on the bus, they'll give you one free.
[40:28.990 --> 40:32.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, each round-trip costs like maybe $20 or something like that.
[40:32.570 --> 40:33.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: They'll give you one free.
[40:33.430 --> 40:33.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: But guess what?
[40:33.950 --> 40:35.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to pay $20 a year for it!
[40:38.150 --> 40:39.610]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to pay $20 a year for it!
[40:39.610 --> 40:41.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to pay $20 a year for it!
[40:41.810 --> 40:43.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, that's not a discount!
[40:44.850 --> 40:45.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's not a discount!
[40:45.970 --> 40:48.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, $20 a year for a discount!
[40:48.430 --> 40:51.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, the airline, when you go on the airline, you get frequent flyer miles.
[40:51.970 --> 40:56.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: You fly a certain amount of time, and you get a discount!
[40:57.270 --> 40:58.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: Not on Greyhound, though!
[40:59.210 --> 41:00.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: Not on Greyhound!
[41:00.330 --> 41:02.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: You use Greyhound a certain amount of time.
[41:02.530 --> 41:05.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, you get a discount, yeah, you get a free round-trip, but guess what?
[41:06.430 --> 41:08.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, you have to pay for that!
[41:08.470 --> 41:10.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: And just like when you want a student discount?
[41:11.050 --> 41:11.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, you don't!
[41:11.970 --> 41:13.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: You can use the student ID card!
[41:13.630 --> 41:14.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: Guess what?
[41:14.350 --> 41:19.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have to use the student advantage card that you have to pay $20 a year for!
[41:19.590 --> 41:25.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: And also, even if you're a senior citizen, you have to use a senior citizen club card!
[41:25.910 --> 41:27.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, you have to pay for that, too!
[41:28.390 --> 41:33.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, 5% and 10% discount for senior citizens only if you have that card!
[41:34.110 --> 41:35.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, that's not a discount!
[41:36.210 --> 41:37.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: $20 a year?
[41:37.790 --> 41:39.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, or however much they charge?
[41:40.270 --> 41:50.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's just like the wholesale club thing, you know, like, you know, those stores that say, well, $50 a year or whatever, membership, and then, you know, you get all these discounts.
[41:50.690 --> 41:56.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I don't think it's a discount if you're, you know, doing this membership thing, you know, $50 a year?
[41:56.450 --> 42:00.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, yeah, if you use it a certain amount of times, yeah, fine.
[42:03.070 --> 42:05.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: Don't you just hate when they ask you for touch-tones?
[42:05.810 --> 42:08.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: In other words, you're doing the thing with the rotary phone.
[42:08.710 --> 42:13.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: Don't you just hate when they ask you, if you're calling from a touch-tone phone, press 1.
[42:13.790 --> 42:16.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, what other phone would I be calling from?
[42:17.470 --> 42:24.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I mean, this is, like, the year 2000, I think everybody basically has touch-tone phones.
[42:26.530 --> 42:42.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: And also, I think that when you call certain things, and when you press 0, like when you call for information, like, you know, like travel information, press 0, and they say, sorry, we don't understand what you pressed.
[42:43.270 --> 42:44.590]  [SPEAKER_20]: You press 0 again?
[42:44.970 --> 42:46.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry, we don't understand what you pressed.
[42:49.570 --> 42:56.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I mean, they may connect you with the, uh, representative.
[42:58.130 --> 42:59.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, come home, we are breaking.
[42:59.930 --> 43:01.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, you, yeah.
[43:01.530 --> 43:02.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard that before, yeah.
[43:03.070 --> 43:04.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, my wife was mine.
[43:05.070 --> 43:05.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[43:06.370 --> 43:06.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: What?
[43:13.070 --> 43:13.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello,
[43:17.700 --> 43:18.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: the manual?
[43:26.310 --> 43:26.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: We did it.
[43:27.030 --> 43:27.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: We got him to hang up.
[43:27.890 --> 43:28.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: I can't believe it.
[43:29.230 --> 43:29.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, wow.
[43:30.250 --> 43:31.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: How long did that take?
[43:31.550 --> 43:32.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: I have no idea.
[43:33.130 --> 43:34.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is a milestone.
[43:34.150 --> 43:34.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: It is a milestone.
[43:35.330 --> 43:37.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's the moment we've been waiting for for many years now.
[43:38.710 --> 43:40.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Rebel hung up on us.
[43:41.650 --> 43:50.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: I apologize to everybody that had to go through all of this with us to get to this stage, but I think you'll find it's like reaching the World Series.
[43:52.270 --> 43:53.070]  It's worth...
[43:53.690 --> 43:54.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know what that tone means.
[43:54.950 --> 43:55.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's interesting.
[43:55.550 --> 43:56.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I never got that one before.
[43:57.010 --> 43:58.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, let's hang up on this.
[43:59.730 --> 44:00.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was worth it.
[44:01.070 --> 44:02.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was worth all the aggravation.
[44:03.350 --> 44:06.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, I want to thank everybody for their help, for refraining from hitting the buttons.
[44:07.610 --> 44:16.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: I want to thank the listeners out there for their great patience in putting up with that and standing by waiting for control to be returned to us here at the radio station.
[44:17.430 --> 44:18.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's many more people I could be thanking.
[44:18.990 --> 44:24.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure there's somebody I'm leaving out, so I'll just cut it short and try and get on with the show at this point.
[44:24.930 --> 44:28.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[44:28.090 --> 44:35.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, to repeat what has just happened here, a rebel has hung up on us for the first time since 1993.
[44:37.090 --> 44:38.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Which I believe is the first time he called in.
[44:38.610 --> 44:40.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you look at the archives, you'll see the first time he called in.
[44:42.410 --> 44:44.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: This almost makes up for almost being killed before outside.
[44:44.870 --> 44:45.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's true.
[44:45.610 --> 44:46.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[44:47.850 --> 44:48.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey.
[44:48.490 --> 44:49.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi, how are you?
[44:49.850 --> 44:50.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[44:50.590 --> 44:52.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Listen, what's the big deal about letting him talk?
[44:52.950 --> 44:53.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because...
[44:53.890 --> 44:57.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can listen tonight and ask us what the big deal about letting him talk is.
[44:57.470 --> 45:03.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, you let him ramble on without doing any interaction, but some of the stuff that he mentioned, I kind of have the same feeling about.
[45:03.230 --> 45:11.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, for instance, like when you hit zero, when you get a greeting, and it says, sorry, that's not a valid extension, that's ridiculous.
[45:11.410 --> 45:12.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't even default to zero.
[45:12.630 --> 45:13.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, that's certainly true.
[45:13.370 --> 45:15.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: But are you listening to this show, sir?
[45:15.470 --> 45:15.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah, sir.
[45:16.150 --> 45:16.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: You are?
[45:16.750 --> 45:17.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[45:17.270 --> 45:25.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, well, had you been listening to this show for many years, you'd realize that every single call that comes from this person basically goes along the same lines.
[45:25.490 --> 45:28.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's kind of like an inside joke, you know?
[45:29.330 --> 45:31.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, I'd just be...
[45:31.750 --> 45:33.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know that he's always first on the board.
[45:33.350 --> 45:36.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know whenever you bring him up on the board, he's always like the first guy that he can't figure it out.
[45:36.850 --> 45:37.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[45:37.290 --> 45:43.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: But he's got something to say anyway, even if it's kind of a little bit off the wall, and even if he has some things that are a little bit off color.
[45:43.410 --> 45:44.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just find it kind of interesting.
[45:44.830 --> 45:47.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sort of spices up the show, and he's got, you know, something to say.
[45:47.710 --> 45:51.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Are you suggesting we let him go free-form like that again?
[45:51.470 --> 45:51.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd say.
[45:52.190 --> 45:56.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, not without saying hub, but, and, or something like that, you know?
[45:57.070 --> 46:00.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what it monopolizes all the air like that, because he doesn't even know what the heck's going on.
[46:00.350 --> 46:01.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: We get to play backup to Rebel.
[46:02.050 --> 46:02.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, we know.
[46:02.530 --> 46:03.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: That could be interesting.
[46:03.490 --> 46:04.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Also get to do other things around the studio.
[46:05.010 --> 46:07.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: But thanks for calling, and let's take another phone call.
[46:07.730 --> 46:08.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's go over here.
[46:08.270 --> 46:08.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[46:08.650 --> 46:09.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[46:10.270 --> 46:10.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey.
[46:10.890 --> 46:11.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you?
[46:11.650 --> 46:12.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[46:12.490 --> 46:12.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Pretty good, how are you?
[46:13.610 --> 46:14.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty good.
[46:14.270 --> 46:16.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've got a real interesting one for you.
[46:17.290 --> 46:30.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I had MCI both as my local carrier and long-distance carrier for a while, and I saw the light, and switched back to Bell Atlantic and AT&T.
[46:31.710 --> 46:37.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the AT&T, I'm not sure if that's the light, and that's probably up for change.
[46:37.690 --> 46:44.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: But apparently MCI still has something to do with my line, because...
[46:44.270 --> 46:46.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're still getting a bill from them every month, aren't you?
[46:46.530 --> 46:47.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: A really tiny bill.
[46:48.050 --> 46:58.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, not only am I getting a bill for them every month on another line that I have, but more annoying is that they have managed to disable me from using subcarriers.
[46:59.830 --> 47:00.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Really?
[47:00.710 --> 47:00.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[47:01.490 --> 47:08.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I could three-way you an example of what happens when I try to use any subcarrier.
[47:08.490 --> 47:08.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[47:09.650 --> 47:10.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[47:13.250 --> 47:15.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, he has to do the dial-in thing, and then we'll read...
[47:15.390 --> 47:15.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, yeah, of course.
[47:16.430 --> 47:17.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'll be back in just a moment.
[47:19.230 --> 47:20.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: Should be, uh...
[47:20.410 --> 47:21.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Should be here any second.
[47:23.390 --> 47:24.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is what happens.
[47:26.710 --> 47:28.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: We are unable to complete your call.
[47:29.010 --> 47:33.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please call the customer service number written on your billing statement for assistance.
[47:34.370 --> 47:34.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: 23T.
[47:35.290 --> 47:36.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: We are unable to complete your call.
[47:37.470 --> 47:38.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: How do you like that?
[47:38.310 --> 47:40.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: And this happens any time you try to three-way something?
[47:41.210 --> 47:42.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, no.
[47:43.230 --> 47:46.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it only happens when I try to...
[47:46.010 --> 47:49.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: In this case, I use, you know, 1010-220.
[47:49.530 --> 47:49.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[47:50.010 --> 47:50.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: And dial the number.
[47:51.970 --> 47:55.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: So you can't select another long-distance company to make another call.
[47:55.450 --> 47:56.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: They won't allow you to three-way in somehow.
[47:57.650 --> 47:58.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, exactly.
[47:58.590 --> 48:01.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, whether I'm doing it on three-way or not is irrelevant.
[48:01.790 --> 48:03.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, so three-way has got nothing to do with it.
[48:03.150 --> 48:03.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[48:03.510 --> 48:07.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's basically, they have somehow managed to disable your selection of a carrier.
[48:07.910 --> 48:08.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[48:08.290 --> 48:09.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's always, it's always the same error.
[48:09.690 --> 48:10.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's always MCI.
[48:10.570 --> 48:10.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[48:11.570 --> 48:12.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's, uh, that's pretty bizarre.
[48:13.050 --> 48:17.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, do you have, do you have MCI as your regional carrier as well as your long-distance?
[48:18.510 --> 48:21.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I should not have MCI as any carrier at this point.
[48:22.110 --> 48:23.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, uh, try this on three-way.
[48:23.790 --> 48:25.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Dial 700 plus four digits.
[48:25.470 --> 48:26.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Tell me what you get.
[48:26.210 --> 48:27.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Or just come back and tell us what you get.
[48:27.910 --> 48:29.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, what four digits?
[48:29.310 --> 48:30.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Any four digits in the world.
[48:30.530 --> 48:32.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: 700 plus four digits will tell you your regional carrier.
[48:32.730 --> 48:32.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[48:33.830 --> 48:34.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hopefully.
[48:34.910 --> 48:35.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: It doesn't work everywhere.
[48:36.990 --> 48:37.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: We got a good shot.
[48:38.230 --> 48:39.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sometimes it breaks your phone.
[48:40.230 --> 48:41.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: You gotta be careful.
[48:44.230 --> 48:44.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll get something.
[48:45.310 --> 48:45.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[48:46.810 --> 48:47.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Huh.
[48:48.430 --> 48:49.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Nothing's happening?
[48:49.890 --> 48:50.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.
[48:50.670 --> 48:51.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nothing's happening.
[48:52.030 --> 48:52.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting.
[48:53.010 --> 48:55.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let me try waiting a second before I flip the three-way back on.
[48:56.030 --> 48:56.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, that might be a good idea.
[48:59.290 --> 49:02.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Here at Off the Hook, we're committed to analyzing your phone problems.
[49:02.890 --> 49:05.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: As strange and unusual as they may be.
[49:05.110 --> 49:06.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've got a gripe with MCI, too.
[49:07.270 --> 49:07.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: What is that?
[49:08.010 --> 49:09.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, something very similar happened to me.
[49:09.670 --> 49:12.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: I selected them for regional a while back.
[49:12.450 --> 49:13.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Why did you do that?
[49:13.230 --> 49:14.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's for the fun of it.
[49:14.090 --> 49:14.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: They gave me $100.
[49:14.690 --> 49:15.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, this is really strange.
[49:16.210 --> 49:16.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, what's happening?
[49:18.310 --> 49:18.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Nothing.
[49:18.890 --> 49:19.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Nothing's happening.
[49:19.710 --> 49:19.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Interesting.
[49:19.810 --> 49:20.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Nothing's happening.
[49:20.450 --> 49:23.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, try the 1700 555 4141 number.
[49:24.090 --> 49:25.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: That'll tell you your long-distance carrier.
[49:25.830 --> 49:26.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't.
[49:26.790 --> 49:27.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: It doesn't tell you anything?
[49:28.670 --> 49:29.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want me to show you what it tells you?
[49:29.870 --> 49:30.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, let's hear it.
[49:32.190 --> 49:35.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, so I have this MCI bill that comes every month now.
[49:35.950 --> 49:39.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I realize I'm already paying AT&T the same charge.
[49:39.150 --> 49:41.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: MCI is just continuing to bill me, even though I switched.
[49:42.810 --> 49:43.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I don't.
[49:43.610 --> 49:44.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Ah.
[49:44.490 --> 49:45.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're sorry.
[49:45.370 --> 49:47.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[49:47.430 --> 49:50.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Please check the area code and number and dial again.
[49:50.690 --> 49:51.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: How interesting.
[49:52.250 --> 49:55.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, what part of the area are you from?
[49:58.050 --> 49:59.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.
[50:00.070 --> 50:00.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: So you're in 212.
[50:00.970 --> 50:01.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[50:03.070 --> 50:04.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's a mystery.
[50:05.530 --> 50:07.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, that's apparently a Bell Atlantic recording.
[50:08.790 --> 50:09.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[50:10.150 --> 50:14.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: But what you can always do is dial something out of the time zone, 1+.
[50:14.990 --> 50:17.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you get the AT&T chime...
[50:17.870 --> 50:18.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, actually, it's easier.
[50:18.890 --> 50:20.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just dial zero and see what operator you get.
[50:20.430 --> 50:21.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course, you can't 3-ray that.
[50:21.370 --> 50:23.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: It usually doesn't work properly if you're trying to 3-ray an operator.
[50:24.430 --> 50:26.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: But dial zero and see who your long-distance company is.
[50:26.830 --> 50:27.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: It'll tell you that much.
[50:27.970 --> 50:28.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[50:28.650 --> 50:30.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: As far as the regional...
[50:30.410 --> 50:34.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: I used to be getting AT&T, you know, time zone businesses.
[50:35.570 --> 50:36.010]  Uh-huh.
[50:36.590 --> 50:43.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And either I just happen not to have called people in a different time zone for a while or something screwy happened because I'm not getting them anymore.
[50:43.770 --> 50:50.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, just dial any number in, say, 415 area code and you should get that little time thing before it starts to ring.
[50:51.070 --> 50:51.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[50:51.370 --> 50:53.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then that'll tell you if you're AT&T on long-distance anyway.
[50:54.870 --> 50:55.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if...
[50:55.690 --> 51:00.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: But dialing zero will tell you without any doubt who your long-distance carrier is.
[51:00.350 --> 51:00.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sure.
[51:00.950 --> 51:03.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, so if somebody managed to switch me...
[51:03.790 --> 51:04.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[51:05.270 --> 51:14.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: As is so often the case, what bearing would that have on my inability to dial subcarriers?
[51:14.850 --> 51:15.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know.
[51:15.430 --> 51:16.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's rather weird.
[51:16.690 --> 51:18.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm wondering if it might be a problem with your central office.
[51:18.810 --> 51:19.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do you have other phone lines?
[51:20.070 --> 51:20.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[51:20.850 --> 51:22.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: And does this happen on these phone lines?
[51:23.170 --> 51:26.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have another phone line and I haven't checked it on it.
[51:26.310 --> 51:26.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[51:26.670 --> 51:29.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: If it happens on that one, too, then I would say the problem is in your central office.
[51:30.230 --> 51:33.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: And if it doesn't, I would say that this is something that Bell Atlantic can still clear up.
[51:33.570 --> 51:37.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: What I would do is call them, tell them the problem you're having, say you can't dial 1010 codes.
[51:38.270 --> 51:38.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[51:38.730 --> 51:42.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they're the ones that have to figure that out because it's at the local level.
[51:42.910 --> 51:43.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[51:43.710 --> 51:43.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay?
[51:44.230 --> 51:44.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[51:44.710 --> 51:44.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[51:45.030 --> 51:45.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, good luck.
[51:45.550 --> 51:45.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thanks for having fun.
[51:46.170 --> 51:48.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: That was a really weird, bizarre problem there.
[51:49.050 --> 51:49.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[51:49.570 --> 51:50.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Second of the phone call.
[51:50.210 --> 51:50.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[51:50.530 --> 51:50.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[51:51.730 --> 51:52.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[51:52.650 --> 51:53.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[51:53.010 --> 51:53.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: How are you?
[51:53.530 --> 51:53.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: How are you?
[51:54.090 --> 51:54.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[51:54.610 --> 51:55.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have...
[51:55.710 --> 51:57.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just heard that you said something about five...
[51:57.750 --> 51:59.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have a house out in Long Island.
[51:59.290 --> 52:02.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hate to go there and I hate to use it and I still have two lines out there.
[52:02.450 --> 52:02.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[52:02.890 --> 52:04.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm in Manhattan now, but I didn't...
[52:04.790 --> 52:08.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: My secretary didn't tell me anything about a changed area code.
[52:08.310 --> 52:10.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you saying all 516 will be changed?
[52:10.050 --> 52:10.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[52:10.470 --> 52:11.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Are you in Nassau or Suffolk?
[52:11.710 --> 52:12.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Nassau.
[52:12.430 --> 52:13.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, Nassau won't be changed.
[52:13.550 --> 52:14.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Nassau is 516 still.
[52:14.850 --> 52:15.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[52:15.270 --> 52:15.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks a lot.
[52:15.770 --> 52:16.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: You guys are very helpful.
[52:16.730 --> 52:16.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[52:17.170 --> 52:17.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks.
[52:17.770 --> 52:18.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bye-bye.
[52:18.110 --> 52:19.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hope you enjoy the area code.
[52:19.910 --> 52:20.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, well...
[52:20.590 --> 52:22.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: It served us well over the many years we used it.
[52:24.710 --> 52:26.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: I still can't get over that.
[52:26.450 --> 52:26.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[52:26.850 --> 52:27.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[52:27.170 --> 52:27.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[52:28.450 --> 52:29.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: How are you doing?
[52:29.270 --> 52:29.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[52:29.550 --> 52:29.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you?
[52:30.490 --> 52:34.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, you might try the Westbury Sprint store next time you need to do business, for starters.
[52:34.790 --> 52:35.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[52:35.250 --> 52:42.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I was in the city, you know, walking around, so I figured, you know, I was here, might as well make it nice and simple, but, uh, yeah, it didn't work out that way.
[52:42.830 --> 52:49.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: And on those Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant sirens, they were set to a frequency of 467-7875.
[52:50.010 --> 52:50.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
[52:50.450 --> 52:59.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: With a PL of 69.3, and it uses the four letters of the alphabet that are on the extended keypads on the, uh, main site there.
[52:59.190 --> 53:01.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: So how easy would it have been to set them off?
[53:02.210 --> 53:03.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: For me, real easy.
[53:04.790 --> 53:06.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, well, you're probably a terrorist or something, right?
[53:06.810 --> 53:07.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, right.
[53:07.110 --> 53:07.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Who else would do this?
[53:09.050 --> 53:13.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's, uh, that's, uh, now, do any other sirens use this kind of, uh, system around us?
[53:13.250 --> 53:16.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: A couple, uh, the coastal, uh, the coastal ones on Fire Island.
[53:16.230 --> 53:20.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't remember the frequency offhand, but, you know, the coastal evacuation coming up from the southern state.
[53:21.110 --> 53:21.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[53:21.430 --> 53:22.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: You seen those routes?
[53:22.170 --> 53:22.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[53:22.590 --> 53:23.790]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, they're all set up the same way.
[53:23.910 --> 53:26.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're basically, you know, listening.
[53:26.490 --> 53:28.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: You send out the right tones, and they trip.
[53:29.170 --> 53:29.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wow.
[53:30.670 --> 53:32.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's, that's, that's so simple.
[53:33.250 --> 53:35.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Any, uh, any research on EAS?
[53:35.710 --> 53:37.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, you're going to love that.
[53:37.270 --> 53:37.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh-oh.
[53:37.490 --> 53:44.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: The way that works is, is that in Emmitsburg, uh, Emmitsburg, Maryland, it works almost like a cascading domino effect.
[53:44.930 --> 53:53.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: If it was a national emergency, they used two clear channel AM stations that send up, uh, uh, uh, using the AM, the new AM stereo subcarrier.
[53:53.670 --> 53:54.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[53:54.290 --> 54:02.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: What it does is it goes to the remote locator, uh, the remotely located transmitter, because, you know, all AM stations are basically, their studios are elsewhere, and they use transmitter link.
[54:03.330 --> 54:03.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[54:04.690 --> 54:07.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: They also transfer on the transmitter, transmitter links.
[54:07.390 --> 54:16.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: What they do is they down the transmitter links that belong to the station, feed into that, and then use the other AM stations to intercept other transmitter links for, say, all the FM stations.
[54:17.350 --> 54:21.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: In about 20 minutes, they're all broadcasting from one point, all daisy-chaining.
[54:21.510 --> 54:24.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: You end up... you can listen to the delays when they actually do this over in the Midwest.
[54:25.530 --> 54:29.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you're actually tuned in to all the relays that they basically override.
[54:31.070 --> 54:33.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's like a radio worm.
[54:33.210 --> 54:33.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: I like it.
[54:34.090 --> 54:39.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, basically, they've positioned a transmitter pretty much in the way of every single receiver link.
[54:39.850 --> 54:40.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: They've set them up.
[54:41.110 --> 54:56.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: So if you've got your transmitter at the Empire State Building, but your studio is in the Trade Center, they simply just cut in on it and transmit it to the Empire State Building and simply seize your input frequency so that they can output on your existing frequency.
[54:56.930 --> 55:02.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, are the tones that you hear, are they specific for every station, or is that something that basically can be used anywhere?
[55:03.890 --> 55:06.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's like a list of approved tones.
[55:06.350 --> 55:10.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's a range of... there's about 30 or 40 of them that they use in combinations.
[55:11.050 --> 55:16.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're actually supposed to be musical, like tones on a keypad for like a cipher lock on a door.
[55:16.890 --> 55:17.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[55:17.670 --> 55:18.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: So...
[55:18.070 --> 55:20.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it sounds kind of like a fax machine when you hear it on the air.
[55:20.750 --> 55:22.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, well, but those... you don't always hear those...
[55:22.550 --> 55:25.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, that's the main... that's the... that's the beginning of the message tones.
[55:26.030 --> 55:27.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: You don't actually hear them.
[55:27.130 --> 55:33.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you're listening to the actual ones before those links come up, they're basically like touch tones, but it's a completely different matrix.
[55:34.290 --> 55:34.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Interesting.
[55:34.570 --> 55:36.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: How can you find out more about this?
[55:36.610 --> 55:37.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, you park your truck, man.
[55:38.450 --> 55:43.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, actually, what you do is you got to hang out in the Meadowlands.
[55:43.410 --> 55:45.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: All the remote locator sites are there.
[55:45.430 --> 55:50.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: A friend of mine picked up on them and played them back one day, and we finally figured out what they were for.
[55:51.690 --> 55:52.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Fascinating.
[55:52.430 --> 55:55.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, it's because, uh, 60... I think 60 is one of them.
[55:55.450 --> 56:02.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: But basically, they use the AM stations first to cascade each other, and then from there, they cascade all the FM stations in an area.
[56:02.550 --> 56:04.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, there are different types of tests, too.
[56:04.110 --> 56:05.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's local tests, national tests, right?
[56:06.030 --> 56:07.650]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, but there's some sort of...
[56:07.650 --> 56:08.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: But there's a...
[56:08.690 --> 56:09.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're basically...
[56:09.970 --> 56:15.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: Actually, if someone got the main frequencies, and they were down in the Washington area, they could actually trip the entire country.
[56:16.130 --> 56:16.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's interesting.
[56:17.010 --> 56:18.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's the kind of stuff I'm interested in.
[56:18.590 --> 56:22.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you find the right domino and get the ball rolling, it'll just march on in.
[56:23.350 --> 56:24.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's basically done like that.
[56:25.130 --> 56:26.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: And hackers will be blamed for the whole thing.
[56:27.010 --> 56:27.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[56:27.610 --> 56:28.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, thanks for calling.
[56:28.370 --> 56:32.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: More than likely, someone will flip the wrong switch down one day and spill his coffee into it.
[56:33.510 --> 56:33.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[56:34.710 --> 56:36.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Accidents usually cause most mayhem.
[56:36.730 --> 56:37.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[56:37.110 --> 56:37.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thanks again.
[56:38.290 --> 56:40.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hopefully, we'll be talking about this at H2K.
[56:40.530 --> 56:44.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, I'd love to have a seminar in EAS and as many...
[56:45.330 --> 56:47.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: Assuming we all survive that whole little Y2K thing.
[56:47.470 --> 56:48.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, Y2K, yes.
[56:48.650 --> 56:51.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Y2K, if we survive that, H2K is next on the horizon.
[56:52.850 --> 56:53.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Take another call.
[56:53.670 --> 56:53.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[56:54.030 --> 56:54.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[56:55.610 --> 56:56.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, I'm in.
[56:56.770 --> 56:57.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello.
[56:57.270 --> 56:57.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you doing?
[56:58.250 --> 56:59.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Which sound sounded better to you?
[57:00.010 --> 57:00.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[57:00.450 --> 57:00.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[57:03.960 --> 57:06.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, that person panicked, and I can understand why.
[57:06.460 --> 57:06.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[57:06.880 --> 57:07.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[57:07.880 --> 57:08.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi, good evening.
[57:09.040 --> 57:10.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Danny here, Dave's brother.
[57:10.260 --> 57:13.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Listen, you quoted Steve Mackey earlier in your program.
[57:13.300 --> 57:13.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[57:14.200 --> 57:17.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you want, and if you put me offline, I'll give you his phone number.
[57:17.280 --> 57:20.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's out in the Midwest listening to you on real audio, and he's up for a phone call.
[57:21.400 --> 57:21.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-oh.
[57:21.860 --> 57:22.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, that's great.
[57:22.920 --> 57:25.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we're about to go off the air right now.
[57:25.280 --> 57:28.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: Unfortunately, we'd love to have him on the air talking about this.
[57:28.260 --> 57:31.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you want to call him and work it out for next week, I'll send you the number by email.
[57:32.040 --> 57:33.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, that sounds great.
[57:33.640 --> 57:34.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: Listening by real audio, huh?
[57:35.020 --> 57:35.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yep.
[57:35.340 --> 57:36.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: What a small world it is.
[57:36.460 --> 57:39.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I heard you, and I contacted him, and he picked you up.
[57:39.560 --> 57:40.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wow.
[57:40.360 --> 57:41.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Was he listening before you called him?
[57:41.940 --> 57:42.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: No.
[57:42.300 --> 57:43.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, that would have been amazing.
[57:43.820 --> 57:44.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, take care.
[57:44.460 --> 57:45.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thanks for calling.
[57:45.440 --> 57:46.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's really cool.
[57:46.240 --> 57:46.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: It is cool.
[57:46.880 --> 57:50.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: It just shows how you can pull people together, you know, at the drop of a hat.
[57:51.180 --> 57:53.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: All tied in, you know, all around the world.
[57:54.940 --> 57:55.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Pretty scary.
[57:56.180 --> 57:58.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, that's going to do it for us this week.
[57:58.460 --> 58:03.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: We'll be on again, of course, next week, talking about the latest in high tech and various other things like that.
[58:04.020 --> 58:17.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: And again, you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, and visit the H2K webpage, which will be updated pretty soon with more information on the Hacker Conference taking place here in New York, July 14th through 16th at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[58:18.020 --> 58:22.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we hope to make history there in many ways that we probably can't talk about yet.
[58:23.580 --> 58:24.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it's going to happen.
[58:25.560 --> 58:27.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, for Isaac, this is Emanuel.
[58:28.200 --> 58:29.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have yourselves a good night.
[58:29.980 --> 58:30.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Take care.
[58:36.930 --> 58:59.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself off shaving Now I can't make a cough It could be yet much worse But if they could, they would But I'm going to be wrong But I best expect the worst I hope that's understood But I'm going to be wrong You are the only one x2amo 7 8