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For everything else, there's the corporate media.
This is not the corporate media.
This is WBAI New York, and now it's time for Off The Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall, I cut myself while shaving,
now I can't make a call, it couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would,
for nearly a month of the best expected worst, I hope that's understood, for nearly a month.
I hope that's understood, I hope that's understood, I hope that's understood, I hope that's understood,
I'm about to enter the Rittenhouse Hotel where there's a secret service security briefing covering the Republican convention happening here in Philadelphia later this year
And I'm just going in now
Who tells you these things? Who's your plant in there?
I know somebody who works at a place where a part-time law enforcement officer works
And this person heard about this or overheard him talking about it
That's about all I can say
Well, I'm about ready to enter the building
Should I do this on the air?
I'm entering the Rittenhouse Hotel
Can you actually hear me if I'm getting arrested on the air?
Hold on a minute
444, anything to keep this location, right?
444, thank you
Okay, fourth floor, I'm told
You're in the facility now and you're heading to the fourth floor
I just spoke to the concierge
That's not a very impressive security barrier, concierge
I think we're going to lose him in the elevator
I think Sprint PCS is going to do more to prevent us from hearing this than any secret service agent
I have my national security agency polo shirt on, I don't know if you thought, oh, this security guy
Why don't you folks get on to other things
Well, you brought up the national security agency
I was wondering if you happened to, or if Isaac happened to see the piece on 60 Minutes last Sunday on Echelon
Oh, yes, Echelon
A real piece of garbage, wasn't it?
What?
You thought that was a good piece?
No, but the people they interviewed were certainly respectable and involved
Let's go over this
You have this guy there that says, and I quote
of a woman whose son appeared in an elementary school play
and she said that he bombed
and then that person was therefore labeled a terrorist
because they were overhearing her phone conversation
You have to keep in mind that he was Canadian
And that is...
Why must you always get nationalistic about these things?
And that is not an urban legend
And the reporter is like, that's not an urban legend?
No, that is not an urban legend
All right, that was pretty bad
No names
This guy was an employee of the Canadian equivalent
Yeah, the CSE
Yeah
Well, whatever he's an employee of
If he wants to tell people things that aren't urban legends
it would help to give some facts besides just a story
All he gave was a story about this woman in an elementary school
and that's it
There was no documentation
You may lose me, I'm going into an elevator
All right, if...
Well, if we lose you, I guess we'll have to call you back
Uh-oh
Bernie?
Still here
Okay, we're still picking up every other syllable
We'll call you back
Put your phone in vibrate mode
Don't want people swarming around you
when they hear your funny ring
Okay, well, that's the end of him
Fourth floor, he said, right?
The fourth floor
It's not going to take him very long to get up there
so I'm going to call immediately
and hopefully get him back right away
Or we could just leave him a voicemail
Yeah, and then he'll get notified about it tomorrow sometime
Right, exactly
Let's see if we have code time
Phone ringing
Phone ringing
Phone ringing
Sounds like voicemail
Hello
Ah, there we are
Okay
Have they seen you yet?
No
Very good
Looks like I'm entering now
Is that the voice of a Secret Service person?
Ah, there's some people in suits here
Hold on a moment, please
They have sunglasses on
That's how you tell
Can't necessarily tell
They look very official looking
Look at their ears
Do they have those little things in their ears?
You know, the implants
The implants?
Yeah
Ah, they're not wearing the radios
Ah, all right
I'm going to step into the lion's den here
Why don't you speak one of their code names
You must know them all
Ah, just a few of them
What's the President's code name these days?
Ah, you know, I can't recall
I should know this
Not the obscene one, the one that you can say
They have an obscene one, you know that, don't you?
I didn't know that
Yeah
Can you say it on the air?
They're milling about
Oh, they're milling about
This thing was supposed to have happened at 7.30
And I just got here
They're milling about
And there's people here
Some of them wearing law enforcement insignia
Bernie, let's just listen to the mill for a few seconds, all right?
We should see the spread of food they have here
Oh, wow
Well, there's nothing we can do about that
But why don't you just hang out with the people who are milling
And let's hear what that sounds like for a second
Well, I'm actually here to meet someone
Apparently you're not here right now
His name is Emanuel Goldstein
All right, thank you
I told him I was here to meet you
And so you have
And he said you're not here in this group
Now, these people are all clearly law enforcement
What's interesting is
They're meeting under the auspices of the Innkeepers Association
That was the cover name for this
Uh-huh
It's on the sign outside the door, it says
For the Innkeepers Association meeting
However, everybody in there was not an innkeeper
These were people in expensive suits and
Law enforcement people wearing insignia
So this gentleman keeps ushering me out
And he keeps giving me the eye and pointing me out the door
I think I'm not welcome here
So you've already been spotted, huh?
Well, maybe I gave myself up when I said I was here to meet Emanuel Goldstein
Is he approaching you anymore?
He basically gave me the bum's rush
I'm sorry this didn't turn out to be a very exciting radio event
Some official milling
Certainly
I'm going to step into the elevator
And I may get cut off again as I head downstairs
To avoid getting shot
Find a nice little chair in the lobby
There's a fine chair in the lobby
Maybe you can catch them as they stumble out in a drunken stupor later
There were bottles of wine and alcoholic beverages
There always are
For law enforcement?
Yes
I guess so
This is an official function
Oh, I can tell you stories
But no need
All right, we have some interesting news
And Bernie, you already know this
On Thursday, Kevin Mitnick was going to be appearing in front of Congress
Was to be?
He will be
He will be appearing
10 a.m. on Thursday in front of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee
And they're going to be talking about the security of the federal government's information systems
The whole thing is sponsored by Senator Fred Thompson, a Republican from Tennessee
Which I guess is probably about the worst thing you could imagine
Whoa, whoa, whoa, back up
What?
Are we going to get into this stupid debate again about how Republicans are good?
He's sponsoring this, isn't he?
Well, he's sponsoring this, yeah, but, you know
He asked Mitnick to be there, didn't he?
Remember the guy who sponsored the one I went to?
Remember what happened to me when I went down there?
No
I walked into like a, you know, a landmine
It was a trap
It was horrible
Who knows what he's going to be walking into
But it's open to the public
And people can come on down there
It's being held
I'm not sure how D.C. works
But the place is called the Dirksen Senate Office Building
It's in room D-342
It's Thursday at 10 a.m.
I don't know what Bernie's walked into this time
I'm out in front of the Rittenhouse Hotel now
Where other law enforcement people are milling about
In fact, apparently I missed the event
I had to work until about 7 o'clock
And couldn't get here until now
But I see several official-looking vehicles leaving the hotel garage
They're unmarked, but they have lots of antennas on them
You have a scanner with you by any chance?
Yes, I do
I have it on
Well, there you go then
And I happen to have programmed it for various Secret Service frequencies
But it doesn't have the necessary digital decryption unit built into it
I'm afraid to pull it out here with these cops standing around now
I'll just keep it in my bag
Good idea
All right, let us know if anything happens
We're going to move on now
Now, there was a hearing today also in the Senate
This one sponsored by Senator Strom Thurmond
Republican from South Carolina
Which I guess is the second-worst-stating Republican from Tennessee
All right
What?
Why do I have to go over this old ground over and over again?
First of all, when you try to make jokes about Strom Thurmond, you're supposed to make old jokes
That's disrespectful
The guy's 98 years old, but I'm not going to pick on him because of that
Well, that's the typical, you know, humor thing
You go after Strom Thurmond
No, I go after policy
He's a great man
I go after policy
I go after, you know, thick-headedness, things like that
Age? Come on
Well, you seem to be insulting Tennessee and South Carolina pretty readily
I'm insulting Republican senators from Tennessee and South Carolina in particular, yeah
Well, why Tennessee and South Carolina?
Well, because Tennessee is the one state
Do you think they're like, pick-filled?
Well, Tennessee is the one state that has managed
Are you interested in hearing this or not?
They've managed to, for instance, lock up somebody in California for running an adult bulletin board system
They managed to bring them into Tennessee and say, well, you violated our community standards
even though you're in California because we called you up and you told us something that we didn't want to hear
or some bizarreness like that
It's all documented on this particular radio show, in fact
Well, South Carolina happens to be a fairly strong magnet
South Carolina, the state that flies the Confederate flag
Game, set, match, it's all over, come on
Let's not even get into this
Why don't we continue on?
Are we going to get into what's wrong with the Confederate flag?
Are we going to go the whole nine yards now?
What's wrong with slavery?
What's wrong with anything?
This is just insane
We only have an hour
Exactly
We only have an hour
So let's continue on with this whole competition
Bernie, what in the world are you doing?
What in the world am I doing?
It sounds like you're falling down a mountain or something
What's going on here?
You can thank Sprint PCS
Boy, these guys are giving me the eyeball
I'll tell you
Walk up and introduce yourself, don't be shy
You don't worry about us
Just put the phone on your shoulder
Walk right up to them and introduce yourself
I think I'm just going to walk away from this
Nothing to be ashamed of
You're on a public street, for God's sake
All right
Bernie S. in Philadelphia
About to get the stuffing beaten out of him
Well, I'm sure this won't be the last of their meetings
No, they're going to have a meeting about you now
In like about 10 minutes
Where are my Emanuel Goldstein gestalts?
Yeah, thanks for bringing my name into this
I really appreciate it
Like, I'm not on enough lists
I have to be on yet another one
I think you're already on that one, actually
Well, yeah, but now I'm like up on the top of that list again
You've got another star next to your name
So, now, who did we have testifying in D.C. today?
We had, uh, Mudge was down there again
Mudge was down there
And, uh, you have a list of some other people
You gave me the docs here, so
Yes, you have the docs
Mudge was down there
Did Mudge say he could crash the internet in 30 minutes?
I hope he didn't say that again
No, um, well, my general impression of what he said was that he wasn't quite on topic
He kind of jumped around a bit, which
I think he said he could take any men in the house, though
No, I
Didn't he say that?
I
There was some bravado there someplace
In my skimming, I didn't pick up on that
Uh, let's see, Dan Rosenweig, the president and CEO of ZDNet
Okay
Who offered, uh,
Do you want to give us a brief
Hand me the Justice Department guy
I'll hand you the Justice Department guy
I want a piece of him
You tell me what this other guy said from ZD
Uh, ZD gave, uh, basically a brief overview of the attacks against ZD
Uh, the, you know, the distributed, uh, denial of service attack
Right
They kind of suffered, along with a bunch of other people
Which was, uh, a little Sin Flood thing
Personally, I think they're all a little hypersensitive
Well, this one
Bernie?
I'm here
Are you okay?
All these horrible sounds we keep hearing occasionally
It just doesn't make sense
It's really, it's really strange
The, uh, the vocoders that, uh,
Supreme PCS uses are tuned to reproduce human voice
Mm-hmm
Yet, if you try to feed any other, you know, non-human voice type sounds
That don't follow, you know, a typical human voice waveform
Uh-huh
It ends up sounding really strange
Like, you know, any kind of mechanical noises or whatever
They just don't translate
And, uh, it sounds very strange
You'd be better off with, uh, a Peter Frampton guitar, I think
Probably
Yeah
All right, well, now I'm looking at, uh, the testimony of Eric Holder
Deputy Attorney General, Department of Justice
And, uh, you know, the one thing you gotta look at as, as being a danger sign
Is when people, uh, launch into the whole tirade about, uh, cybercrime and hackers and things like that
And this guy, unfortunately, he's, he's in the position where he can actually, uh, you know
Institute policy and things like that
And he, he launches right into that, um
No, he can't
Congress institutes policy
Well, yeah, but the odds of me instituting, you know, legislation of some sort
Are significantly less than the, uh, Deputy Attorney General
How would you say that?
Of the Department of Justice
Have you called your congressman?
Have I called my congressman?
I've called my congressman every name in the book
And several times at home
And it doesn't make any difference
In fact, I think it makes things worse
Oh, I see
Um, computer crime investigators and a number of FBI field offices
And investigators from other agencies are investigating these attacks
He said investigating three times in that one sentence
Uh, they're coordinating information with the National Infrastructure Protection Center
NIPC of the FBI
The agents are also working closely with our network of specially trained computer crime prosecutors
Who are available 24 hours a day slash 7 days a week
To provide legal advice and obtain whatever court orders are necessary
Attorneys from the Criminal Division's Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section
CCIPS
Are coordinating with the assistant United States attorneys in the field
We are also obtaining information from victim companies
And security experts who, like many in the internet community
Condemn these recent attacks
And we are also working closely with our counterparts in other nations
I am proud of the efforts being made in this case
Including the assistance we are receiving from a number of federal agencies
It goes on and on for pages and pages about the, uh, you know
The whole prosecution
But it doesn't really go into any details as to how to keep it from happening
Because I don't think they're interested in that
They're not interested in that
And I don't think that they can
And they have nothing to do
This isn't something that can be legislated away
And it can't be, you know, bureaucratized to death
It's a matter of personal responsibility for just about everyone who has a site up
You have to secure it
There's no question about that
Nobody's going to do it for you
I'm sorry, folks, but you're going to have to invest the time and the money
To deal with these security issues
And if you don't, you're going to lose badly
I don't see why people can't, like, focus on common sense and the obvious
If you don't do it, someone's going to take advantage of it
I'm sorry, continue
Yeah, but the person who takes advantage of it is not going to be a hacker
A hacker can figure it out
A hacker can tell you how it's done
But for somebody to do something as stupid as this denial of service thing
I mean, that's not hacking
Did you say a hacker was going to take advantage of it?
Well, this guy sure did
Listen to what he says
When a hacker disrupts air traffic control at a local airport
We do that all the time
Looking for an instance of that
Remember LAX, Isaac?
Was that a specific incident he was referring to?
What's that?
Was that a specific documented incident he was referring to?
No, it happens so often, apparently, that he just says
When a hacker does this
When a hacker disrupts air traffic control at a local airport
When a child pornographer sends computer files
When a stalker sends a threatening email to a public school or a local church
Or when credit card numbers are stolen from a company engaged in e-commerce
Investigators must locate the source of the communication
Everything on the internet is communications
From an email to an electronic heist
Whoa! Major revelation there
I wish I could have seen this
Finding an electronic criminal
An electronic criminal
Not a real criminal
Electronic criminal
It means that law enforcement must determine
Who is responsible for sending an electronic threat
Or initiating an electronic robbery
Do we imprison him in a capacitor or something?
That would be the ideal solution, wouldn't it?
To accomplish this, law enforcement must, in nearly every case
Trace the electronic trail
Leading from the victim back to the perpetrator
Tracking a criminal online is not necessarily an impossible task
As demonstrated last year
When federal and state law enforcement agencies
Were able to track down the creator of the Melissa virus
And the individual who created a false Bloomberg News Service website
In order to drive up the stock price of PairGain
A telecommunications company in California
Created a false website
It wasn't a real website
Wow
In both cases, technology enabled us to find the individuals
Who were engaged in criminal activity
I have something to say about the Melissa person
Now, is this a yes or no?
Yes or no?
Did the Melissa virus writer, David Smith
Did he actually send the virus to anybody?
Did he simply write it and post it on a Usenet news group?
Yes or no?
Ask the wrong person
Actually, that's not a yes or no question
That's an either or question
From what I've read, from everything I've seen
They're not saying that he mailed it
That he just wrote it
So, now he's facing 10 years for writing something?
I think there's some question as to whether he actually wrote it
As there should be
Well, he pled guilty to writing it
I think there's some question as to if it's actually a virus
Well, I will fight to the last day saying that it's not a virus
No, I don't believe it's a virus either
Unfortunately, despite our successes in the Melissa and Pairgain cases
We still face significant challenges
As online criminals become more sophisticated
Often wearing the equivalent of internet electronic gloves
To hide their fingerprints and their identity
My Nintendo Power Gloves, is that what it's like?
I have a problem with the more sophisticated thing
I don't see particularly interesting and more sophisticated attacks
The tools may be getting a little more sophisticated
I think they may be getting a little dumber too
So that sort of makes it more sophisticated
Let me finish up here
It doesn't take a master hacker to disappear on a network
Ironically, while the public is justifiably worried about protecting
The legitimate electronic privacy of individuals who use networks
A criminal using tools and other information easily available over the internet
Can operate in almost perfect anonymity
By weaving his or her communications through a series of anonymous re-mailers
By creating a new forged email
This is literally how I said it
By creating a new... wait
By creating a few forged email headers
With powerful point and click tools
Readily downloadable from many hacker websites
Or by using a free trial account or two
A hacker, online pornographer or web-based fraud artist
Can often effectively hide the trail of his or her communications
You see where this is going
This is not anything new
This is the focus on a few very sensational cases
And then try to pass legislation that will take care of those sensational cases
Except for the fact that the sensational cases are in the front page of every newspaper now
Sure they are
Again, this is nothing new
No, what's new is the attention it's getting
Why?
And this sense of urgency
Of course
So that's new
Look at the guns before, look at tobacco even before that
This has got nothing to do with guns and tobacco
Sure it does
This is about...
It's the same technique
This is... I don't...
What in the world are you doing, Bernie?
I'm going to turn you down
There was actually somebody starting their car on the street
Alright, well
It sounded like anything but that, I'm sure
Alright
It's the typical Clinton technique
The idea is he mentions something beforehand
Says that, you know, this could be a potential problem
After that, suddenly, problem occurs
He seems to be this wonderful sage of all ages
Who predicted the problem occurring
Now you whip up public, you know, support
For passing some kind of legislation
That will correct the, quote-unquote, problem
That he was so wonderfully adept in predicting beforehand
At which point, legislation is passed
Solution, quote-unquote, is gotten to
And whammo!
We now have a whole new set of ways to deny you of your rights
Well, I agree
Except I don't agree that you can just pin it on Clinton
It's the system
That's how the system works
Democrat, Republican, conservative, liberal
It doesn't matter
That is how our system is designed
Yes, that's how the system works
But the Clinton thing is that he predicts it beforehand
So as to, you know
That's his little own bait-and-switch thing
Yeah, but you see
Clinton is not really running the show here, is he?
I mean, he's one person
He's, you know, the guy with the name on top of the letterhead
But that's it
I understand
So, I mean
I'm sorry, I selected his particular, you know
Do you think these problems are going to go away?
I don't think they're going to go away
They're not going to go away
Whoever comes in next
How to make it go away is to have the websites assume responsibility for their websites
These people just can't throw up something and, you know
Expect everybody to play by the rules
Tell the government to get lost
Leave us alone
Let us deal with the internet on our own
Yeah
Yeah, okay, I agree with that
I don't think it should be limited to the internet
But we'll save that for another show
Yeah
This is interesting
This is a piece of paper that we got, actually, here at the station
It wasn't meant for us
It was meant for another show
Worst hacker attacks yet to come, says defense department consultant Dr. Aaron Friedman
Sure
Now, this is basically a pitch that he sent us to be interviewed
Not us, another show
Somebody else
Yeah, I don't think he'd want to be on this show
E-commerce sites should prepare their networks as if they're going to war
And this means creating virtual private networks for their users, says Dr. Aaron Friedman
Network security consultant for the U.S. Department of Defense
And chairman of Fortress Technologies, Inc.
What do you want to bet?
Oh, you know what? He was on the Art Bell Show
Oh, boy
I was making fun of him on the Art Bell Show
What do you want to bet this guy has got something to sell?
Oh, he definitely has something to sell
You see what I mean?
I can tell you about his product
You can just see through these people as if they're made out of glass
It's that simple
They come up with these crazy, prepare for war, worst hacker attacks yet to come
Are they speaking on their own?
Or are they speaking because they have some kind of agenda and a profit to make?
Is that in the text or are you just saying?
No, that's what I'm saying
Oh, okay
It's so obvious
If you just think about this a little bit, it's really clear
Dr. Friedman, a former senior scientist at Brookhaven National Laboratories
says that the recent wave of denial of service attacks is just a precursor to truly damaging cyber attacks
which are certain to be waged against U.S. business
These recent attacks were just distractions
They were not intrusive, says Dr. Friedman
Intrusive attacks on unprotected sites will have alarming and lasting consequences
to both the U.S. economy and the U.S. psyche
You can be certain that foreign entities with hostile intentions
have taken note of how vulnerable U.S. commerce is to cyber attack
Remember, it's not just U.S. e-commerce that is vulnerable to cyber disruption
Every Fortune 500 company with a computer network is a potential target
I love how the Fortune 500 companies are the only ones that matter
I was off the net for a full week and nobody cared
because of that stupid DSL incident
Well, I'm glad to see that he's not touting his product's NSA certification anymore
I haven't finished reading. Let me continue and see what other horrors await us here
Dr. Friedman says the best proven defense against all types of cyber attack is a virtual private network, or VPN
as they are known in the network security field
I'll bet bottom dollar this guy is going to try to sell this
A VPN is created when encryption hardware, generally a box about the size of a CD player
is placed in front of the corporate server
Each network user installs software that allows him to access the network server through the box
The virtual private network is the safest against every form of attack
from high school hackers to state-sponsored cyber terrorists, says Dr. Friedman
Should I start to nitpick what he's talking about?
No, no, we don't have time for that
A company utilizing a VPN cannot become victim of a denial-of-service attack
because the IP address of every incoming request is validated
Requests with unauthorized IP requests are discarded
If an attack comes from any validated address, the address can be immediate blocked
That's what he said literally
A VPN makes every computer and all the traffic on the network invisible to hackers
A virtual private network can be established for 2 users or 2 million users
And according to Dr. Friedman, the Fortress VPN modules don't reduce network speed or reliability
Fortress, wait a minute, isn't that the name of the company?
That's his product
This guy is selling the damn thing
That's his product
The Fortress VPN system has undergone grueling testing by the National Security Agency
And it's the only VPN system in the world to have earned the NSA's Security Proof of Concept Keystone SPOC certification
They even give us questions to ask him
Really?
You want to be the guy?
Should I ask the questions?
No, I'm going to ask the questions
You can give me stupid answers
No, I'm not going to give you stupid answers
How does a hacker choose his target?
Actually, I'm sorry, I said it wrong
How does a hacker chose his target?
That's how he wrote it out
Dartboard
Right
How do I know?
Bernie, you can take this one
Someone from the internet has been searching my hard drive
Someone in the internet has been searching my hard drive?
Do you want a stupid answer?
Well, yeah
Actually, I'll give you the answer that they were passing around
Which is just as stupid
Go ahead, Bernie
I said I probably can't come up with as stupid an answer as they gave
I'm trying to think of stupid answers
Well, according to the media
They say if your hard drive light flashes a lot, you should report that
Windows 95 or Windows 98
Right
Because that could mean that somebody is accessing your hard drive that shouldn't be
So report that if your hard drive light goes on
What damage can a hacker potentially cause to a business?
Oh, billions of dollars
More damage than your business could ever potentially do in one year's worth of operation
That's right
Who should you report that blinking hard drive light to?
Probably one of the guys that you just passed by in Philadelphia there
Okay
Run back and say your hard drive light is flashing, see what they do
They'll arrest me for flashing
Yeah
What is a firewall and can hackers defeat them?
Isaac, this one's for you
A firewall is a brick wall that has been doused in diesel fuel
Alright, that's enough of that
And it can be defeated by hackers with a fire hose
What is a virtual private network and why do hackers hate them?
It makes everything invisible
It's like the Romulan cloaking device
You flip a switch and it just goes whoo
Yeah, exactly
Final question, final question for Dr. Aaron Friedman
Fortress Technologies sets up, this is like a commercial here
Fortress Technologies sets up hacker-proof networks for U.S. intelligence agencies and large corporations
Can Fortress set up secure networks for small businesses too?
Why yes, we can
Oh boy
You're going to put that back in the box it's supposed to go in, right?
Yeah
Laszlo, how are you doing?
Yes
You're back this week
I mean, you've seen things like this, you work in commercial radio
We get these all the time, we get all these all the time with the loaded questions
So people send you their little blurbs
Oh yeah
They send you the questions to ask them
They say, you mean for only $19.99 I can get a firewall?
I'm shocked
Not just that, for three easy payments of $9.99 I'll throw in the Supermatic toaster and pasta maker
But wait, don't dial yet
Because this is a complete sham and a fraud
If you get attacked by a hacker we'll send you your money back
Alright
You could use those thousand dollars
I didn't know the NSA actually gave certification, do they just like put a stamp?
No, they do
No, never mind
It's like Y2K readiness and things like that
Speaking of Y2K
This stock is a real initiative
Speaking of Y2K, today is a special day
Today is, yes
February 29th, 2000
Now, did you have some kind of problem?
Yes, no I didn't personally have a problem
My hard drive was blinking
You better run outside and call somebody
I didn't personally have a problem but I got a report from somebody
That they had a Casio watch which has a year based calendar
You really talked to a person or is this just some urban legend?
They left me a voicemail
Really, okay
How this person got my number I don't know
They never leave their number
They had a Casio watch which actually takes into account the year, so they say
And in 1996 when they had purchased this
There was no problem with the leap year
It went, you know, 28, 29, March 1
This is a watch?
This is a watch
They've had a watch for that long?
Strangely, well I've had this one for like 5 years
Never had a watch longer than a month maybe
Is it one of the ones with a calculator on it?
Probably
Gee, what a surprise
But this year, in the year 2000
It didn't do February 29th
That watch said today was the 1st of March
Wow
Think of the havoc that could have been
Well, yeah, I can imagine all the craziness that's causing worldwide right now
But the reason for that is because
Generally, years that end in 00
Are not leap years even though they're every 4 years
1996 was a leap year
2004 will be a leap year as well
But 2000 wouldn't have been a leap year if it wasn't 2000
If it was 1900 it would not be a leap year
But since it's 2000 it is
Don't ask me why, I think the whole system is stupid
It's every 4 years and every 400 years
It's divisible by 400, that's why
Right
Alright
I don't know who figured the whole thing out
Jesus
Yeah
That's right, he figured the whole thing out
He was the first hacker
Look what that got him
Hacking time
212-209
What other problems...
212, sorry Bernie, sorry to give the phone number
212-209-2900 is our phone number
We'll be taking phone calls in just a moment
Bernie, yes
What other problems happened on this leap day?
I don't think any
I mean, I heard there were some problems in Japan with
With some
ATMs
ATMs, was it?
Supposedly 1200 ATMs
The ones at the post offices shut down
And the Indonesia Stock Exchange was closed as a precaution
But no, apparently nothing happened
Let's see, Japan's meteorological agency
Weather monitoring stations reported double-digit rainfall
Even though no rain fell
Interesting
Big problem
These problems do exist?
Yeah, these problems do exist
But you know, these problems are really easy to fix
And we can move on with our lives
They're easy to fix?
Well yeah, I imagine that your friend's watch is fixed by now
Well, he's safe
You reset the time, that's it
Well, tomorrow he'll have to set it back a day
He sets it back a day
The thing is, it doesn't take genius mentality to fix these kind of things
Y2K was a bit more complex than simply going one day in advance
Yes
And this right now seems to be more of a problem than Y2K ever was
Which I think is kind of funny
I wouldn't say that
Well, I have yet to see any sustained damage from Y2K
People are waiting to come out of their shelters to report it
But have not yet seen anything
Okay, my particular problem this past week of course was the nightmare I had with DSL
And again
Was that finally resolved?
It was finally resolved the next day, in fact
On Wednesday, the Bell Atlantic guy finally came out
After a week of trying to get them to come out
And they found the problem
Yeah, there was a wire that just simply snapped
And I don't know why that would cause the system to go down
Or the connection to go down in the daytime and come back up at night
Probably has something to do with crosstalk
And just made the connection a lot worse
But it's up now
It's been up for a week
And things seem to be okay
But Bernie, you sent me a story from the Philadelphia Inquirer
Which was very similar
I'm going to read part of this
Digital subscriber line technology
One of the most vaunted solutions to the worldwide wait
Can be a dream come true for consumers craving faster ways to surf the internet
Intricate web pages pop up on home computer screens in seconds rather than minutes
And DSL offers a sturdy internet connection
That is on 24 hours every day
No dial-up is required
Bell Atlantic, whose DSL service is also being resold by internet service providers
Has said that it has been deluged with requests for hookups
In the Philadelphia area, the company says
It is receiving hundreds of calls and emails daily from people who want DSL
But for all the interest and potential benefits
DSL is not problem free
The technology introduced about two years ago around the country has a lot of bugs
And the regional Bell companies, currently the primary providers of the service
Have had trouble deploying DSL as an alternative to rival high-speed cable modems
Some customers who have signed up for Bell Atlantic's DSL service
Which cost a minimum of $49 per month
Have complained of service outages, even terminations
And when they call Bell Atlantic for help
Some said their calls have gone unanswered
Or their problems with the service have gone unexplained
Jacob Lubwinski, a Philadelphia resident who recently signed up for Bell Atlantic's DSL service
Said it worked for a glorious three days
From February 16th through February 19th
The few days it did work, it was just outstanding
The webpages just showed up instantly
But Lubwinski was still without DSL service yesterday
This was a week ago
Despite numerous conversations with Bell Atlantic technicians and managers
To help him regain service
I'm frustrated because I'm not getting an explanation
He said they do offer a 30-day money-back guarantee
If this isn't resolved soon, I'll try that and go back to my slowpoke speed
I'm waiting for the first lawsuits for internet withdrawal
Well, it's pretty sad
11 o'clock news, you're going to see people all grayed out, jittery
Like, I can't get them online
Well, the thing is, I mean, we laugh
But that's pretty much what it was like
I mean, you know, the thing would go down, right?
That frightens me
I like to think that you're not completely dependent on technology
But, you know, you sort of get used to sending people email
And talking on IRC and browsing the web
When the thing goes down, you know, you kind of, like, look at it nervously
You kind of look at it nervously and you kind of say, you know
All right, it's going to come right back up
And it doesn't come right back up
So you pace around a little bit more
And you get, you know, you get more and more anxious and nervous
And, you know, a full maybe 20 minutes has passed by
You know, because you can't get on the net
And you just want to get on the net
And you want to, you know, call whoever it is that's necessary to get you back on the net
And you can't be off another five minutes
And your heartbeat starts increasing
And you start getting really anxious and nervous and upset
And then it comes back up
And you just calm down
It's like you've been injected with some kind of drug, you know
And you're okay until it goes down again
And then you freak out
And that's how I was for the past week
And I realized
That's remarkably sad
It is remarkably sad
What has become of us that we're so dependent on the net?
I don't have a problem with that
I have very little problem with that
Well, it's horrible
It really is
I suggest you read a book
You actually live in a very nice area
Why don't you, like, enjoy it?
Well, the problem is that, you know, we run a server
And there are other people that are constantly trying to get a hold of us when we go down
And, you know, they get angry
That's another issue which we've discussed
I have to take away all the beepers, all the phones
Get away from anybody who might know me
And just go far away and not care that people are being inconvenienced
Do it for about a week
Do it for about a week
Do it for about two weeks
It's one of the best things you'll ever do
I don't know
I recommend that to everyone
Well, if I don't come back
It probably would be one of the best things I ever did
But if I do come back
I'll have to deal with a lot of people who are kind of angry that I did that in the first place
So tell them off
Say, go out to the desert for a couple weeks
That's the solution
All right
Sorry, I take some phone calls
Can we skip this whole DSL thing, by the way?
What do you mean?
Let's just start running fiber to people's homes
Well, I'd like that
That would be nice
I mean, it's inevitable
Let's just do it now
Get it out of the way
I think I'd be nervous
They're running fiber, supposedly
I think I'd be nervous, too
If my online access went down
Because in those five minutes
Another corporation might sue you
That's the potential
You know, that was something that was going through my head
When we were down all day
You know, I could be getting sued right now
And I don't even know it
Because that's the way you're served these days
You're served via email
So, you know, I don't know what's going on
With the way you happen to be
It wasn't by my choice
Well, eventually they did that
But there's one lawsuit, the California lawsuit
Which isn't a real lawsuit
Well, it's not really a real lawsuit
But they seem to think it is
And they can make things difficult, you know
But they never actually served anything
They just emailed stuff
And sent things through their real mail
I'm getting a strange look from Laszlo
What's the difference between a real lawsuit and not a real one?
Well, the California lawsuit was
In the county of Santa Clara
He lives in New York
Right
The county of Santa Clara has no jurisdiction over him
Just like the state of Tennessee
Has no jurisdiction over somebody in California
Right, but unfortunately the guy from California
Probably responded, showed up in court
Thereby volunteering his, you know
Submission to that particular jurisdiction
They found him guilty and they sent him to prison
Just like American corporations have no say
In what goes on in other countries
Well, that's another issue
We'd better move on to some phone calls
212-209-2900, let's go over here
Good evening, you're on the air
Yeah, hi, I got a question
You better make it fast
Alright, I was in town in Manhattan
And I dialed 411 and I got local information
To give me the number of a particular store that was in Manhattan
Not fast enough
Alright, when I went out of state
I went to another state, dialed 212-555-1212
They say they don't have that listing
Why is that?
They don't have what listing?
The particular store that when I dial local 411
Here in Manhattan, in town
They have the listing of that store
Of that particular place
But when I dial it out of state
They don't have it
Why didn't you just write down the number?
No, no, no, this is just an example
I'm just asking, you know, in general
Well, I don't know
Did you happen to hear what they said
When they picked up the phone?
What company they are?
Maybe they're a different company?
Either AT&T or MCI
Well, if they're AT&T or MCI
They might have an outdated CD-ROM or something
Whereas if you're connecting to Bell Atlantic directly
They obviously have, you know, the up-to-the-minute listings
That's my theory there
Thanks for that question
It was very enlightening
Good evening
That was mind-blowing
Yeah, I for one am a better person for having
Oh, it's Bernie
They're after me
You're on the air
Hello, go ahead
Bernie?
I'm here
Alright, listen
If you ever call two lines during the show
Once again
You're going to be banned
That's right
I don't ban people lightly
Good evening, you're on the air
Yeah, hello?
Okay, yes
I have a couple of comments
First of all
You were just talking about the February 29th
Uh-huh
The reason is the sun goes around the earth
365.242
Let me just
Hold on a second
The sun does not go around the earth
The earth goes around the sun
Okay, I'll take that back
I'm sorry
You got the number right
That's a controversial thing with Isaac, right?
Yeah, I'm sorry
You got the number right, though
Which is the important part
Okay
And that's just why
If you did it every four years
The counter comes up
After a long time
It comes out off
Uh-huh
But the reason why I wanted to call
Is we were just talking about security issues
Right
I'm not in that business or anything
And maybe the people who do damage
Really aren't hackers
But the fact of the matter is
Somebody can do serious damage
To somebody's computer
Of course, yes
Especially if it's just a home computer
No one's going to bother you
Maybe a normal business
But these e-commerce sites
Or even a bank or something
You know, I remember
A long time ago
I heard about somebody who
Would take out money
At five o'clock from the bank
And put it back in the bank
At nine o'clock the next morning
It sounds kind of silly
If you get the interest, you know
You've got to realize
Maybe you wouldn't do that
But somebody else might
Well, yeah
But I mean, that's criminal behavior
They have names for that already
You know, why call them hackers?
You know, you might as well
Just call them programmers
Or something like that
You know, it would be just as absurd
Maybe that very well might be true
But I guess that's why
You have to have security
I mean
I'm not following
You have to have security
There are people who will do damage
I mean, I don't want this guy
Who wanted to crash Yahoo!
E-Trade
You know, maybe it could have been
A disgruntled employee
You never know
Right
Well, that would not be
The act of a hacker
You see, that would be the act
Of a disgruntled employee
You know
They might be able to use
Something a hacker teaches them
Or if they're a hacker themselves
They might be able to use
The knowledge that they gain
And then turn it into
A criminal activity
Fine
But that does not mean
That hackers are doing this
You know
I guess there's no other word for it
Of course there's other words for it
There's plenty of words for it
Criminal sounds good
There's no end of words
I mean, vandal
Extortionist
You know
There's all kinds of words
You can use for their behavior
And if you want to be
Really sexy in the media
You put cyber
In front of each of those
Yes, cyber
If you have to do that
Go right ahead
No, I mean
I thought it was mad
I mean, people want to
I remember when the war games
Began
People were like
Ah, they're going to bomb the world
Right, yeah
No, but you have to
Yeah
See, there's plenty of good things
That hackers do
And a lot of awareness
That they spread
A lot of things that we can learn
And to just simply
You know
Make it all into
One big evil thing
That hurts everybody
That hurts the people
That aren't doing
Anything malicious
Hurts people like Kevin
Hurts people like Bernie
You know, when they're called
Hacker
All of a sudden
Every evil thing
You can possibly imagine
Is conjured up
And you want these people
To go away for years
That's the danger
You see
Maybe it just takes
On your end
And the hacker's end
You know
To train everyone
To listen to these guys
Or not
You know, hacker is something else
Well, let's put it this way
All right
They say that this
Has been possible for
You know
Hackers obviously
Can figure out
How to do it
Now, why do you think
It took so long
For this to happen
If hackers knew
How to do it
And hackers had
The ability to do it
For all this time
And there have been
Hackers around
For all this time
Wouldn't it be
Being done constantly?
But no
It didn't happen until now
Probably because
Some idiot
Got a hold of something
That he shouldn't
Have gotten a hold of
And figured out
Himself how to use it
Just ran a script
He should have gotten
A hold of it
There's a difference there
Well, yeah
But I'm just saying
This is probably somebody
Who doesn't know
How to use it
In a responsible manner
But yeah, you're right
It should be available
It should be something
People can access
But this person
Was not capable
Of grasping that apparently
Or people
Or whatever
They probably have
A lot of copycat things
Right now
Again, it comes down
To personal responsibility
Well, two kinds
Of personal responsibility
Responsibility of the people
Who are doing it
And responsibility of the people
That prevent it from happening
To them
Absolutely correct
Let's move on
Let's go over there
Good evening
You're on the air
This is all
I think the sexiest thing
For the national security
Since like
Halbert and Luggage
Or something
They love this
They love using
Hacker language
And I think it has
Like an applied
Sexuality to it
You know, like
We used to worry
About unprotected sex
Now we have to worry
About unprotected sites
With all the ads
Saying no protection
Anyway, I have a question
About the prison phone system
The news was talking
About the prison phone system
The news was talking
About this earlier
With the MCI monopoly
On the phone system
There is a three-way
All the phones in prison
Are set up for three-way
Listening
Speaking and listening
Bernie, when you had
Conversations with your attorney
Did you have any way
Of knowing that
Or did you have to assume
That that was possible
Even though that's not legal?
You had to assume
That your attorney-client
Privilege was being violated
Whenever you were speaking
To the attorney-client
You had to assume
That that was possible
Even though that's not legal?
You had to assume
That your attorney-client
Privilege was being violated
Whenever you were speaking
To the attorney-client
Whenever you were speaking
To your attorney
On the telephone
In fact
In one of the prisons
I was sent to
Just a face-to-face
Conversation I had
With my attorney
Was being conspicuously
Monitored by a guard
Who was standing
About six feet away
And it was not permitted
To close the door
To the room
But in the federal
Prison system
In the handbook
It says
You can request
A call with your attorney
To not be monitored
But forget it
I mean, I did that once
And it was a waste of time
Because basically
They said, well
Too much trouble
Was set up this week
Or whatever
And it just
Basically made it clear
To you that
You're being a lot
Of trouble to them
For trying to
Even ask for something
Like that
I figured the initial
Response would be
Well, what are you
Trying to hide?
Yes, of course, right
Well, that's what
They're thinking, obviously
But, Bernie
Isn't it something
That's not legal
To do this?
It's absolutely illegal
To monitor
But they just do it anyway
The feds did that
Notoriously in the
In the Manuel Noriega case
Where he was in prison
And the feds
Were caught red-handed
Wiretapping
All his prison calls
Including those
To his attorney
Like, lots and lots
Of calls to his attorney
They recorded all of them
Which is blatantly illegal
But they did it anyway
And they got caught
Doing it
That's unbelievable
You know
I used to have
Respect for the system
Respect for the law
Respect for, you know
Its enforcers
You know, little by little
It's just all being eroded
It's just
on the street, and it has some neat stuff.
I'm there.
Well, if they're on the street, then fine.
I'm right over there.
And it's actually garbage days are Mondays and Thursdays.
This guy knows it all.
OK, that's great.
So did you get anything interesting?
No, I didn't.
Actually, yeah, I did one time.
It was something, I don't know, it had something
to do with DSL testing.
It had all of these sequences and ones and zeros.
And actually, I don't have the paper with me right now.
They were speaking binary.
Yes, yes, it's quite neat.
But it was real cool.
I suggest that you go there.
Oh, and another thing, there's a little publication
called Internet Week Magazine.
And they were talking about the denial of service attacks.
And they said new programs turn novices
into veritable Kevin Mitnick attackers.
Oh, that's just great.
That's just beautiful.
A Kevin Mitnick attacker is somebody
who tries to assault Kevin Mitnick?
Kevin has never done anything like that ever.
And yet, they attach his name to something like this.
He's the first person to condemn this kind of thing.
Exactly, I just didn't get it.
I laughed when I saw it.
It was like a Kevin Mitnick attacker.
I didn't get it.
Interesting.
Are you going to be at the 2600 meeting on Friday?
I'll try my best.
All right, say hello.
See you.
All right.
Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I've got a question for you.
Do you happen to be under 13?
No, I'm actually over 14.
I just, as a young person.
Oh, yeah, yeah, we've got an interesting story for you.
I wanted some feedback from you.
Apparently, back in the late 98 Congress passed a law
called the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act.
I know you're not a child,
but you're a little bit closer to that age than we are.
Yeah, definitely.
It says that as of April 21st of this year,
yeah, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act,
as of April 21st of this year,
websites must get a parent's consent
before they can collect, use, or disclose
any personal information from children under 13.
Now, there's all these free e-mail services
that provide the e-mail accounts to kids.
But isn't that supposed to be anonymous?
Well, no.
Apparently, now, under federal law,
these sites must get parental consent
before they can give an account to,
or get any information from someone who's under 13.
Bernie, I have one question.
I have one question.
Okay, you have like, say, a hotmail type of system there
where, you know, technically,
they would have to not give their account out
to somebody who is 13 or less.
Right.
How do they tell?
Yeah, how can they tell?
What happens if the person
simply just doesn't tell them the truth?
How are they supposed to verify this?
Obviously, if the kid has half a brain,
he's gonna give some age greater than,
you know, greater than 12.
I do it all the time.
But as of April 21st, if you put in any birth date,
like if you try to get a hotmail account,
free hotmail account,
if you put in any date of your birth
less than 13 years ago,
you will see some message saying that, you know,
we need parental consent,
or we'll just say, I'm sorry,
we can't provide you an account.
Okay, so a warning to all the eight-year-olds out there
not to do that, or, you know, if you do it,
just, you know, fix it.
There's this one site called NBCI,
which owns and operates a free email service,
snap.com and email.com.
They sent an email out to everyone
who's fell into that age window,
and it said, we're sorry to say
that we have some bad news for you.
It says, at this time, Snap does not have any way
for your parents to give us their permission.
So we have decided that closing your account
is the surest way for us to obey the law.
Wow.
I think the only way they can get extreme security
and make sure there's no little kids having an account
is they just kick everybody off.
Yeah, that's good for business.
Yeah.
It said, if you'd like to sign up again
after you turn 13, we would love that too, end quote.
Yeah, you could turn 13 tomorrow,
or, you know, you could turn 21 tomorrow, or whatever.
That's crazy.
An example of unenforceable
and generally poorly thought out legislation.
Yeah.
Isaac, I'm gonna throw something at you,
so be ready, all right?
Because last time, last time I didn't mean that.
It was a little ambulance thing
that I think I swing by.
Yeah, well, that's not exactly, it wasn't an ambulance,
but there was definitely bandages involved, so.
Oh, okay.
What is it?
All right, I'm gonna throw this over at you now, all right?
Ready?
Ow!
Jeez, man.
Dude, easy.
All right.
I write this stuff a little bit.
Forbes!
Yeah, Forbes Magazine.
All right.
I was gonna vote for Steve.
Turn to page 39.
This is the current issue of Forbes.
Current issue of Forbes, I'm not in it, am I?
Page 39.
Try to do it fast, because we're running out of time.
Sorry, 50, 44, 40.
Some people can turn more than one page at a time.
Oh, hey!
Look at that picture.
Does that look familiar?
That, in fact, is a little snippet
of a cover of one of our magazines.
That's right.
Which cover was it?
That was the cover from immediately before
Beyond Hope, if I recall.
Well, just describe what's in the picture.
Oh, it's the shot of the escalator
at 51st Street, the subway station,
with the changed LED sign.
Yeah, the LED.
No, we have no idea who did that,
but we happened to be there with one of our photographers
just as it happened, and we took a picture of it.
Basically, it was a lot of people
coming up the escalator on the LED.
Everyone thinks we manufactured this in Adobe
or something like that, but no,
it really was happening.
It said, hack accordingly, volume, whatever, number three.
Now, Forbes printed this, except I don't think
they realized that that's what it was a picture of.
They thought it was just a picture
of people walking up an escalator.
What's the caption of that?
Misplaced praise.
Last month, the Federal Reserve Board
raised interest rates again, and is hinting
that more raises are in the offing.
Yeah, so obviously, yeah.
It has nothing to do with subways or hacking
or anything else.
It has nothing to do with anything like that,
but there, on page 39 of the current edition of Forbes,
you'll see.
I'm more interested in the fact
that they took this off the cover of your magazine.
Well, actually.
Is there a little copyright thing going on?
No, actually, it also was given to the Associated Press.
The same picture was given to them,
just because it was a funny news event,
and we thought they might find it funny, too.
At the time, they didn't print it,
but apparently, they put it in their archives.
That's pretty silly.
And this might be popping up in all kinds of other places.
It's a collector's item.
Yeah, current Forbes.
Hey, we gotta go.
Bernie, I understand you might be going down to D.C. as well,
so hopefully we'll see you there.
Going down to D.C.?
Yeah, for the hearing on Thursday.
You're going down to D.C.?
Well, yeah, of course.
Wouldn't miss that.
How come?
Yeah, maybe.
We'll talk about it later.
Anyway, yeah, we'll be back again next week
with a full report on that
and all the other things that are going on.
Until then, if you have anything to share with us,
email us, oth at 2600.com,
or you can write to us here at the radio station.
Off the hook here at WBAI, 120 Wall Street,
New York, New York, 10005.
And until next week, for Isaac, for Bernie S., for Laszlo,
it's Emanuel Goldstein.
Have a good night.
♪ The telephone keeps ringing ♪
♪ So I ripped it off the wall ♪
♪ I cut myself while shaving ♪
♪ Now I can't make a call ♪
♪ It couldn't get much worse ♪
♪ But if it could, then would for Billy Bob ♪
♪ But the best expect the worst ♪
♪ I hope that's understood for Billy Bob ♪
Grant a new trial, abolish the death penalty,
will be the call Monday, February 28th,
as activists stage a dramatic civil disobedience
and legal support rally in front of the U.S. Supreme Court
in Washington, D.C., to demand a new trial
for death row journalist Mumia Abu-Jamal.
That's Monday, February 28th, 9 a.m.,
at the U.S. Supreme Court, 1st Street Northeast
and East Capitol Street in Washington, D.C.
Buses leave 3.45 a.m. Monday morning
from the Martin Luther King, Jr. Labor Center in Manhattan.
You must reserve these seats in advance
by calling 212-631-4577.
To participate in the civil disobedience action,
you must attend a mandatory training session Sunday.
For location and time, call 212-330-8029.
Before anybody does this,
we accidentally played something from last week.
It already took place.
But thanks anyway.