Off The Hook - 2000-06-06

[00:00.000 --> 00:05.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Putting the entire justice system in the hands of criminal informants is a part of it.
[00:06.120 --> 00:09.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Phil Jordan, 30 years with DEA.
[00:09.600 --> 00:14.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: One of my colleagues, Sal Martinez, also 9 years with the Drug Enforcement Administration.
[00:14.460 --> 00:16.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fortunately about to go into prison.
[00:16.700 --> 00:18.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: I thank both of you guys so much.
[00:18.520 --> 00:20.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a very important show that you...
[00:20.800 --> 00:22.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: And thank you very much for that show.
[00:23.120 --> 00:24.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're over time here.
[00:24.340 --> 00:24.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's 8 o'clock.
[00:24.960 --> 00:27.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're listening to WBAI in New York.
[00:27.800 --> 00:31.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's time now for another exciting edition of Off The Hook.
[01:52.990 --> 01:57.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's Emanuel Goldstein here with you for another edition of Off The Hook.
[01:58.090 --> 02:01.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just got in, so give us a moment to get our act together.
[02:01.750 --> 02:05.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to have some interesting news, updates on things that happened today.
[02:05.810 --> 02:07.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: As well as a bunch of other things.
[02:07.210 --> 02:07.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Stay tuned.
[06:17.120 --> 06:22.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we are here on a rather disorganized edition of Off The Hook tonight.
[06:23.360 --> 06:24.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know where it is.
[06:24.420 --> 06:27.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: When you're out on the road and it's raining a little bit, everyone has to go 15 miles an hour.
[06:27.900 --> 06:28.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we got here in time.
[06:28.700 --> 06:29.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the important thing.
[06:30.420 --> 06:32.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just in time for the CD players not to work at all.
[06:33.000 --> 06:33.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: There we are.
[06:34.760 --> 06:45.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Today was a rather important day in the trial, the upcoming trial, the DECSS trial that we're up to our necks in.
[06:46.220 --> 06:52.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Today there is a hearing over the MPAA's request to seal the court record from public view.
[06:53.540 --> 06:57.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And basically what that means is the MPAA wanted to keep it all quiet.
[06:58.040 --> 06:59.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: They wanted to keep the press out.
[06:59.440 --> 07:00.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: They wanted to keep the public out.
[07:00.620 --> 07:08.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: They wanted to have their spokespeople be deposed in court without us ever finding out what it was they said.
[07:08.220 --> 07:12.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I could find out what they said because I'm a defendant, but we couldn't tell you what they said.
[07:13.680 --> 07:16.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And their words would never be revealed.
[07:16.820 --> 07:18.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was ridiculous.
[07:18.080 --> 07:22.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if you saw some of the things on the various websites.
[07:23.840 --> 07:27.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: They basically said that anything they say could be used against them.
[07:27.160 --> 07:29.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isaac, did you see any of this that was going on in the last week?
[07:30.120 --> 07:31.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some of the things that they said?
[07:31.360 --> 07:32.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm still mesmerized by that music before.
[07:33.320 --> 07:34.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just coming around.
[07:34.880 --> 07:35.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I'm glad you're mesmerized.
[07:36.220 --> 07:36.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: What was happening?
[07:36.620 --> 07:38.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could use a little mesmerization in your life.
[07:38.820 --> 07:49.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, basically, people like Jack Valente and other spokespeople, on our website, you can look at the statement from this guy who's their chief of anti-piracy, whatever.
[07:50.780 --> 07:53.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they had a great typo in their statement.
[07:53.600 --> 07:56.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: They called themselves anti-privacy at one point.
[07:56.520 --> 07:57.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's great.
[07:57.500 --> 07:58.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, really?
[07:58.200 --> 08:00.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and it's there in the court record.
[08:00.460 --> 08:01.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's there forever.
[08:03.020 --> 08:17.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: But basically, they said that anything that they do, including giving out their names, could be used against them because they're afraid that if they give their names out, that this, I don't know what they think, that the vast hacker army is going to go out and find out where they live and destroy them and things like that.
[08:17.580 --> 08:21.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they want to testify in secret, without giving out their names.
[08:21.820 --> 08:28.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: They want to have their statements kept confidential because they might reveal certain things like how anti-piracy...
[08:28.580 --> 08:29.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry, I did it myself.
[08:29.980 --> 08:40.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anti-piracy works, what it is that they use as methods to, you know, keep things from being duplicated and sold in the black market or whatever, which is not what this case is about anyway.
[08:40.580 --> 08:41.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's not.
[08:41.160 --> 08:44.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: But they basically wanted to put a big muzzle on the whole thing.
[08:44.760 --> 08:52.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: So today was the hearing to decide whether or not they could actually seal that court record.
[08:52.640 --> 09:00.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've got on the phone with us, fresh out of the courtroom, Declan McCullough from Wired News, who is downtown, I believe.
[09:01.180 --> 09:02.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Declan, are you there?
[09:02.280 --> 09:03.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, hi there.
[09:03.500 --> 09:03.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm here.
[09:04.140 --> 09:11.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: A bunch of us went over to John Boni's restaurant after the hearing was over, and we're just getting done with dinner now.
[09:11.520 --> 09:12.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[09:12.140 --> 09:13.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's good to know.
[09:13.900 --> 09:14.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Tell us what happened.
[09:14.960 --> 09:15.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did we win?
[09:15.820 --> 09:16.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did we lose?
[09:16.540 --> 09:17.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did anything happen?
[09:18.060 --> 09:18.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sure.
[09:18.660 --> 09:19.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Something did happen.
[09:19.680 --> 09:21.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: The judge sort of split the difference.
[09:21.700 --> 09:41.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: And in a compromise ruling, he said that, well, you know, the MPA plaintiffs aren't going to get what they want, which is a 15-day protective order, and the ability to prohibit transcripts of depositions from appearing on the Internet, even though they might be in the court record.
[09:42.000 --> 09:43.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so they're not going to get that, he said.
[09:43.780 --> 09:51.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: He also said that the media plaintiffs aren't going to get, the media interveners, sorry, aren't going to get what they wanted, which is to attend the depositions.
[09:51.760 --> 09:53.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: He said, here's the deal, guys.
[09:54.820 --> 10:10.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're not going to let the media, we're not going to let reporters, we're not going to let the press into the depositions, But what you have to do, he told the plaintiffs, that is the movie industry folks, you're going to have to release the transcripts of depositions within 10 days.
[10:10.260 --> 10:11.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's 10 business days.
[10:12.280 --> 10:15.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they're going to be put up on the internet.
[10:15.900 --> 10:28.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he also said that for three depositions, including Jack Valenti, Michael Eisner, and Attaway, those have to be released within three days.
[10:28.160 --> 10:28.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, really?
[10:29.100 --> 10:29.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[10:29.780 --> 10:31.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what was the reasoning behind that?
[10:31.520 --> 10:35.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: He said, well, there's a huge amount of media interest in those.
[10:35.800 --> 10:44.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Those seem to be the people who have put themselves in the public eye the most by, you know, putting their names on press releases and complaining about this in the media.
[10:44.180 --> 10:44.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, yeah.
[10:44.580 --> 10:58.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: So because these guys already sort of put themselves in this public process of the lawsuit, then they have less right to keep information about them and their deposition confidential.
[10:58.980 --> 11:00.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that sounds perfectly fair to me.
[11:01.020 --> 11:01.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[11:01.480 --> 11:10.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, I've read the previous transcripts of this judge, Judge Kaplan, and he seems to be, at this hearing at least, he was actually pretty fair.
[11:10.980 --> 11:11.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: He split the difference.
[11:12.100 --> 11:12.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's good.
[11:13.060 --> 11:13.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's good to know.
[11:14.080 --> 11:20.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, that means that since Valenti was deposed today in Washington, D.C., I guess his transcript will be available by Friday.
[11:21.020 --> 11:24.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Monday, because they're not going to get the deposition transcript until tomorrow morning.
[11:24.220 --> 11:24.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, okay.
[11:24.640 --> 11:30.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the MPA lawyer was quite clear, come on, Your Honor, you mean three days from the time we receive it, right?
[11:30.220 --> 11:32.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: He wanted that extra day, you see.
[11:32.500 --> 11:33.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the judge's like, yeah, whatever.
[11:33.780 --> 11:34.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, I'll give you that extra day.
[11:34.820 --> 11:37.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: So from the time you receive it, so they're going to get it tomorrow morning.
[11:37.580 --> 11:38.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's three business days.
[11:38.480 --> 11:39.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's Friday morning.
[11:39.260 --> 11:40.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sorry, that's Monday morning.
[11:40.920 --> 11:44.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can they take some of the material and black it out?
[11:45.180 --> 11:46.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, that's the deal.
[11:47.300 --> 11:53.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're really... I mean, they say they're worried about, you know, confidential information.
[11:53.820 --> 11:59.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: And like, one of their Malaysian employees' friends was knifed or something, and so...
[11:59.600 --> 12:10.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, no, the deal was that somebody, not even an MPA employee, the friend of an MPA employee in Malaysia was attacked in a street alley someplace, and they think that's got something to do...
[12:10.060 --> 12:11.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's related to this case.
[12:11.040 --> 12:14.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: They didn't say this case, but this anti-piracy in general.
[12:14.520 --> 12:22.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like, it's not even the person that works for MPA, but it's got to be an anti-piracy attack because somebody got attacked in an alley that was a friend of an MPA person.
[12:22.980 --> 12:24.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, wonderful logic.
[12:24.660 --> 12:24.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[12:24.820 --> 12:27.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, that was just laughable.
[12:27.360 --> 12:29.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I don't think that the judge took that seriously.
[12:29.920 --> 12:35.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: He didn't say anything about it even after Martin Garvis, your attorney, raised it.
[12:35.680 --> 12:37.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: He just sort of let that one go.
[12:37.460 --> 12:45.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I mean, in fairness, if you go to Malaysia, you go to Kuala Lumpur, you're going to get CDs filled with hundreds of megabytes of macwares for about $10 last time I was there.
[12:46.020 --> 12:49.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, I mean, MPA has a lot of work to do there.
[12:49.380 --> 12:50.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's certainly true.
[12:50.600 --> 12:51.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's got nothing to do with this case.
[12:51.500 --> 12:53.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is not about piracy in any form.
[12:54.140 --> 13:00.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's the way they continue to distort things, to make it seem like they're in danger by revealing information.
[13:01.100 --> 13:03.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, how many people turned out for the hearing?
[13:04.260 --> 13:06.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, let's see.
[13:06.360 --> 13:08.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: There are about 15 or so.
[13:08.420 --> 13:11.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: There were a bunch of reporters there.
[13:11.640 --> 13:12.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not a whole lot.
[13:12.400 --> 13:14.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: I came up from Washington to cover this for Wired News.
[13:14.860 --> 13:17.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: You see my article up on Wired.com tomorrow.
[13:18.200 --> 13:20.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was someone there from the Village Voice.
[13:21.500 --> 13:26.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I suspect someone from the New York Observer, because they had an attorney there.
[13:29.280 --> 13:31.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's about it from the press perspective.
[13:32.040 --> 13:36.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: There were at least two sort of local 2,600 supporters.
[13:36.360 --> 13:42.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it was just a bunch of lawyers from both sides.
[13:43.040 --> 13:48.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, for instance, one of Martin Garvis' associates was sitting with us in the back.
[13:48.400 --> 13:54.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then the MPA had about four people who were not at the council table, who were sitting in the back as well.
[13:54.020 --> 14:05.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, I should know just for the record that I filed a motion to intervene in this case, saying that I, on behalf of my readers, wanted to open this.
[14:05.420 --> 14:13.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: But because I didn't feel comfortable arguing up there in court, the judge denied my motion, saying that I didn't have counsel present.
[14:14.420 --> 14:22.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mike Godwin, who used to be at EFF and is now a journalist, did argue on behalf of our brief.
[14:22.360 --> 14:24.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the judge actually listened to what he had to say.
[14:25.140 --> 14:27.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he put that into account before he ruled.
[14:27.220 --> 14:30.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe Times Mirror also filed papers.
[14:30.360 --> 14:30.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[14:31.620 --> 14:32.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[14:32.380 --> 14:36.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Times Mirror had a lawyer there who was very, very good.
[14:37.260 --> 14:38.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was impressed.
[14:38.680 --> 14:39.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wish he'd have started.
[14:39.260 --> 14:41.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: He's obviously done this a lot.
[14:41.580 --> 14:44.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: A reporter's name was Stephanie Bruton.
[14:44.920 --> 14:47.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the general counsel for the Village Voice was there as well.
[14:48.320 --> 14:52.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: She hasn't been in the courtroom a whole lot and didn't come across especially well.
[14:52.360 --> 14:55.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: But nevertheless, I mean, the judge knows what's going on.
[14:55.600 --> 14:58.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: He's sensitive to public pressure like most federal judges are.
[14:58.220 --> 15:00.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so he knows that the media is interested.
[15:01.040 --> 15:08.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's good that we're seeing this, what I consider a show of support from the media as far as getting information from this courtroom.
[15:08.820 --> 15:12.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's a very important case, something that people need to know about.
[15:13.500 --> 15:20.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, the thing that was guided, the whole theme of the day, if there was one, is that this judge, this guy is just pissed at both sides.
[15:20.820 --> 15:25.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: He thinks that both sides are grandstanding in the media, which may or may not be true.
[15:25.440 --> 15:27.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, certainly we see a lot of press releases.
[15:29.840 --> 15:35.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he's pissed that both sides are sort of whining to him and saying, oh, the other side isn't giving us what they want.
[15:35.380 --> 15:39.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: And in terms of depositions, in terms of making witnesses available, and so on.
[15:40.400 --> 15:42.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let me, I'll just read you a couple quotes here.
[15:45.900 --> 15:53.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: The likelihood that these scorpions in a bottle, the judge said, the likelihood that these scorpions in a bottle were ever going to agree on anything is near zero.
[15:55.300 --> 15:59.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's the judge talking about the lawyers in this case, both the plaintiffs and the defendants, your lawyers.
[16:00.220 --> 16:03.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so they just sort of went back and forth about this.
[16:03.680 --> 16:15.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so what the media were trying to do, the media lawyers, Mike Godwin and me, we had one brief, and then Times Mirror had their lawyer there, and then Village Voice Media had their lawyer.
[16:15.400 --> 16:24.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so between the three of us, we were able to say, look, Your Honor, these guys are squabbling, and they're probably never going to come to some nice and amicable agreement.
[16:24.020 --> 16:29.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: So why don't we try to sort of mediate this, and we can report on both sides and keep them honest?
[16:30.260 --> 16:32.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so I think the judge would have liked that.
[16:32.420 --> 16:32.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[16:33.040 --> 16:33.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Makes perfect sense.
[16:34.080 --> 16:35.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what the media should be for.
[16:37.240 --> 16:37.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting.
[16:37.760 --> 16:38.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Any other observations?
[16:40.000 --> 16:53.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I think, at least compared to his previous rulings and previous hearings, Kaplan, this time around, was pretty deferential to...
[16:53.440 --> 16:54.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, deferential is the wrong word.
[16:54.900 --> 16:55.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sorry.
[16:55.420 --> 17:04.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: He was pretty fair, even-handed, on both sides, which really wasn't what I expected after reading his preliminary injunction, ruling against you guys.
[17:04.980 --> 17:12.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I think the intervention of the media, and also the amicus briefs from some pretty respectable folks made a difference.
[17:12.520 --> 17:18.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: He realizes that folks are paying attention, that 2600 magazine, and that the hacker community is...
[17:18.860 --> 17:19.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're not just wackos.
[17:20.280 --> 17:24.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Or at least, if they're wackos, they have some mainstream support, and they're making reasonable points.
[17:24.820 --> 17:26.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have our wacko percentage, but...
[17:26.500 --> 17:26.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think.
[17:27.580 --> 17:27.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Definitely.
[17:27.920 --> 17:30.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think that's helping the press so long.
[17:30.800 --> 17:41.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, Declan, it's interesting that the first hearing, I don't think there was any press set, and now we have lots of press attending, so I think you're going to see a change in the way the decisions are made.
[17:43.280 --> 17:52.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: So that's right, because it's not going to be sort of the very flattering press coverage, oh, MPA does another anti-piracy initiative.
[17:52.740 --> 17:59.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, it's going to be raising some of the constitutional issues involved, some of the free speech issues involved, some of the linking issues involved here.
[18:00.480 --> 18:06.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I think you're going to see more of that, especially as the trial starts next month.
[18:06.600 --> 18:08.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Although that's the other main theme of the hearing.
[18:09.500 --> 18:12.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: The first one was, of course, the judge can't trust the lawyers to work things out.
[18:12.920 --> 18:15.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he actually, at one point, threatened sanctions.
[18:15.680 --> 18:21.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: He said, look, there's Rule 26, I think, it's in my notes, that says if a lawyer...
[18:21.060 --> 18:39.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: It is Rule 26, the federal rule is a civil procedure, that says if a lawyer is just dragging things out, and he's doing things just to stall or try to embarrass his opponents, then he can be sanctioned and be forced to pay fines and fees.
[18:39.600 --> 18:41.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so he said, look, look, don't push me on this.
[18:41.820 --> 18:48.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm going to screw you over if you don't actually try to make an effort to be reasonable.
[18:48.160 --> 18:50.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he brought up this threat three times.
[18:50.860 --> 18:51.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: He was really serious.
[18:52.420 --> 19:01.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he said to the media, look, I mean, in an ideal world, if these guys could get along, and if we had months and months to be here for the trial, maybe I'll let you in.
[19:01.820 --> 19:03.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: But this is not the world we're living in.
[19:03.420 --> 19:04.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: These guys aren't getting along.
[19:05.100 --> 19:05.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: Scorpion's in a bottle.
[19:07.880 --> 19:10.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we've got a trial that's beginning in just a few weeks.
[19:10.380 --> 19:11.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's beginning next month.
[19:11.460 --> 19:18.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so I can't take the time to let you argue and litigate over every single point, whether it should be open or not.
[19:18.240 --> 19:20.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just going to give me a headache, and I have to get on with this trial.
[19:21.620 --> 19:24.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, yeah, the other thing is he wants to get this over with.
[19:25.120 --> 19:26.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: As we all do.
[19:26.540 --> 19:31.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this isn't exactly paradise for us either, going through this massive hassle.
[19:31.980 --> 19:37.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: So hopefully we'll get to trial and get this case out in the open and achieve justice.
[19:38.780 --> 19:40.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, Declan, I want to thank you very much for updating us.
[19:40.980 --> 19:42.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anybody else there that wants to say anything to us?
[19:43.120 --> 19:47.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, let me grab John Young, who's been following us also from the beginning.
[19:47.480 --> 19:47.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: Great.
[19:48.320 --> 19:49.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just a moment.
[19:49.120 --> 19:50.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'll grab him.
[19:50.240 --> 19:50.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[19:50.940 --> 19:52.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: John Young, of course, runs Cryptome.
[19:52.520 --> 19:52.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, Cryptome.
[19:52.780 --> 19:53.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: I asked about that.
[19:54.920 --> 19:55.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Slightly prior.
[19:55.960 --> 19:56.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[19:56.560 --> 19:57.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's putting up just about everything.
[19:58.780 --> 19:59.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[19:59.480 --> 20:00.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, on the line.
[20:00.180 --> 20:02.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Cryptome.org is where you can find all kinds of...
[20:02.640 --> 20:03.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, there he is.
[20:03.280 --> 20:04.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: John Young, how are you?
[20:04.200 --> 20:04.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Fine, how are you?
[20:04.860 --> 20:05.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty good, pretty good.
[20:05.800 --> 20:07.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: So we did okay in court today, I guess.
[20:08.500 --> 20:08.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[20:09.360 --> 20:10.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it could have been worse.
[20:11.940 --> 20:13.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: They could have barred the press altogether.
[20:14.260 --> 20:15.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess they didn't do that.
[20:15.700 --> 20:15.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[20:17.160 --> 20:18.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can't hear you too well, Eric.
[20:18.940 --> 20:19.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[20:19.240 --> 20:21.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, this is the BAI phone system.
[20:22.000 --> 20:23.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's as best as we can get here.
[20:25.040 --> 20:27.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: So what are your impressions of the way things went in court?
[20:27.280 --> 20:36.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, Kaplan wasn't quite as much of a son of a bitch as he usually is, although he was somewhat sneakier than usual.
[20:36.580 --> 20:42.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, in the previous series, he'd been really anti-2600, you know, just out of the get-go.
[20:42.760 --> 20:47.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Today, he camouflaged it a little bit, but I think that's because he had more press people in the audience.
[20:48.320 --> 20:51.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: He was still biased and prejudiced, no question about it.
[20:51.440 --> 20:52.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, he's still a son of a bitch.
[20:53.960 --> 20:59.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: The opinions expressed on this show, though, of course, are those of John Young, and not necessarily those of the defendant.
[21:00.420 --> 21:01.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's one of the cases...
[21:01.700 --> 21:02.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I appreciate that.
[21:02.460 --> 21:03.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Judge Kaplan is out there listening.
[21:03.780 --> 21:03.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[21:04.240 --> 21:09.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: But in any event, what did you make of the overall mood of the court?
[21:09.520 --> 21:13.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: I understand we had some media in attendance, some audience people.
[21:13.080 --> 21:20.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, you know, Carl Kaplan was there from the Times, and, of course, the Newsday had their attorneys there, and the Village Voice had their attorneys there.
[21:20.600 --> 21:22.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Declan was there, and, of course, I was there.
[21:23.900 --> 21:30.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Mike Godwin appeared as a reporter, but addressed the court, which was apparently a first.
[21:30.360 --> 21:30.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[21:30.780 --> 21:37.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: He was allowed to address the court and made a very good point, which I think is probably the most important point that's been made in the trial, which is that this is a clash of cultures.
[21:39.120 --> 21:53.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe Declan's covered this, but I thought it was the most important statement that was made in the court today, was that this is the old-style power mongers coming up against this new way of getting access to information and letting people make up their own minds.
[21:53.600 --> 22:01.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, of course, Godwin argued that that's the mediation that the press could do, that the judge couldn't do, was mediate this clash of cultures.
[22:02.380 --> 22:05.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, my view is that, well, we don't need any mediation.
[22:05.000 --> 22:06.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we'll take care of it ourselves.
[22:07.060 --> 22:08.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: We just need access to information.
[22:08.800 --> 22:12.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: We don't need the media, judges, lawyers, or anyone else to mediate this stuff.
[22:12.800 --> 22:13.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just give us information.
[22:13.860 --> 22:15.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll make up our own minds.
[22:15.340 --> 22:17.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's more of a natural way of looking at things.
[22:17.720 --> 22:24.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unfortunately, right now, we do have the judges, the courtrooms, and the media, all that kind of thing to decide this for us.
[22:24.320 --> 22:29.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, even if we are to go down in flaming defeat, I don't think that would change anything.
[22:29.920 --> 22:34.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think, you know, eventually this is going to triumph over this kind of thinking.
[22:35.000 --> 22:39.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, the restrictive controlling of all technology, that it's not going to fly.
[22:40.760 --> 22:41.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.
[22:41.300 --> 22:41.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's true.
[22:41.980 --> 22:42.100]  Yep.
[22:42.580 --> 22:42.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[22:43.280 --> 22:45.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: John Young, thanks for everything you do.
[22:45.760 --> 22:46.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Tell us something about Kryptom.
[22:48.680 --> 22:49.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not much.
[22:49.500 --> 22:51.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, we're just putting up docs so people can read them themselves.
[22:52.080 --> 22:53.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: And so that's about all we do.
[22:54.420 --> 22:56.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: You put up an awful lot of docs.
[22:56.240 --> 22:58.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, we think people need a lot of information.
[22:58.560 --> 23:02.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: And so we try not to add our own viewpoint to that.
[23:02.980 --> 23:04.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I don't have any viewpoint, as you can see.
[23:05.140 --> 23:06.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm completely neutral on this.
[23:06.740 --> 23:07.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: We just put up information.
[23:08.520 --> 23:08.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[23:09.420 --> 23:11.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Isaac here is a big fan of his life.
[23:11.000 --> 23:11.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm a very big fan.
[23:12.160 --> 23:13.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's an incredible resource.
[23:13.380 --> 23:14.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I thank you for it.
[23:14.600 --> 23:15.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks a lot.
[23:15.500 --> 23:15.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[23:16.160 --> 23:17.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, thanks for the support.
[23:17.280 --> 23:19.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we'll be talking to you in the future.
[23:19.260 --> 23:19.500]  Great.
[23:19.620 --> 23:20.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Take care, Eric.
[23:20.240 --> 23:20.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[23:20.600 --> 23:20.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Take care.
[23:21.100 --> 23:21.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bye.
[23:28.560 --> 23:29.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: In court.
[23:29.460 --> 23:31.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty exciting, huh, when we have a courtroom update.
[23:31.840 --> 23:32.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mighty exciting.
[23:32.460 --> 23:33.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I kind of like that.
[23:34.480 --> 23:35.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, uh...
[23:35.040 --> 23:36.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: You've been doing anything exciting, Isaac?
[23:36.720 --> 23:37.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not at all.
[23:37.300 --> 23:38.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know I never do anything exciting.
[23:38.680 --> 23:40.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I thought maybe this would be the exception.
[23:40.160 --> 23:40.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: The exception to the rule.
[23:40.460 --> 23:42.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: You sound particularly bassy today for some reason.
[23:42.320 --> 23:42.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why is that?
[23:42.860 --> 23:43.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[23:43.720 --> 23:44.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[23:44.100 --> 23:45.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a little too bassy for me.
[23:45.480 --> 23:45.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: So...
[23:45.760 --> 23:46.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Turn up the treble.
[23:46.280 --> 23:46.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a little dial there.
[23:48.220 --> 23:48.780]  Yeah, but...
[23:49.460 --> 23:51.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is it not quite adjusted?
[23:51.420 --> 23:52.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I don't think that's going to do anything.
[23:53.100 --> 23:54.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think I can adjust your bass and treble from now.
[23:55.020 --> 23:55.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry.
[23:56.260 --> 23:58.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, some interesting things going on.
[23:58.360 --> 24:06.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, on the subject of the MPAA, we have a hotline that people are notifying us about.
[24:06.760 --> 24:12.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: This comes from the MPAA page on what this person calls a Snitches Reward Program.
[24:14.260 --> 24:15.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Listen to this.
[24:15.160 --> 24:19.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyone with information on suspected video piracy operations is urged to...
[24:19.880 --> 24:21.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ooh, urged to call them.
[24:21.440 --> 24:21.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hang on.
[24:21.820 --> 24:24.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Before I give out the number, I just want to see how they answer.
[24:27.480 --> 24:28.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[24:29.540 --> 24:32.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do they have specific office hours, or is this a 24-7 thing?
[24:32.760 --> 24:34.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's one of the things I'm going to find out.
[24:39.620 --> 24:40.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Probably have us blocked.
[24:41.200 --> 24:41.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here we go.
[24:44.140 --> 24:45.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: This number is not in service.
[24:50.810 --> 24:51.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Probably going to go to a machine.
[24:59.510 --> 25:00.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe it won't go to a machine.
[25:02.570 --> 25:05.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is the number you're supposed to call when you're reporting piracy.
[25:06.890 --> 25:10.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've reached the Motion Picture Association and VSD anti-piracy hotline.
[25:11.370 --> 25:14.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hotline operators are available Monday through Friday, 9 a.m.
[25:14.650 --> 25:15.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: through 5 p.m.
[25:15.530 --> 25:16.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Pacific Standard Time.
[25:16.890 --> 25:18.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Your call is important to us.
[25:19.150 --> 25:20.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to hit star.
[25:20.150 --> 25:20.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to hit star.
[25:20.390 --> 25:20.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to hit star.
[25:21.190 --> 25:22.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: And someone will return your call.
[25:22.690 --> 25:23.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[25:23.570 --> 25:29.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you're using the keys on your telephone, spell the first few letters of the person's last name, then press pound.
[25:29.810 --> 25:31.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: For the letter Q, press 7.
[25:31.630 --> 25:33.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: For Z, press 9.
[25:33.330 --> 25:34.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: To exit, press star.
[25:35.310 --> 25:35.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: V.
[25:36.650 --> 25:37.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: A.
[25:38.410 --> 25:38.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: L.
[25:38.970 --> 25:39.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: How did I know you were going to do that?
[25:40.610 --> 25:41.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: E.
[25:42.950 --> 25:43.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: N.
[25:44.490 --> 25:44.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: T.
[25:46.530 --> 25:47.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I.
[25:48.070 --> 25:49.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did she say press pound afterwards?
[25:49.510 --> 25:50.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, after the first three.
[25:52.550 --> 25:53.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-oh.
[25:54.110 --> 25:55.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Rana Tamborow.
[25:55.150 --> 25:55.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[25:55.670 --> 25:57.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: If correct, press 1.
[25:57.430 --> 25:59.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: For the next name, press 2.
[25:59.430 --> 26:00.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: For names beginning with the next name...
[26:00.830 --> 26:03.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they want to keep the names of their employees confidential.
[26:03.130 --> 26:04.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Look how easy this is.
[26:08.110 --> 26:09.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: If correct, press 1.
[26:10.070 --> 26:11.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: For the next name, press 2.
[26:12.730 --> 26:13.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Duna Taylor.
[26:14.770 --> 26:16.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: If correct, Marva Herman.
[26:18.590 --> 26:19.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Tracy Thomas.
[26:20.030 --> 26:21.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, I think I've made the point.
[26:22.270 --> 26:25.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, you can have all kinds of fun reporting piracy to that number.
[26:25.850 --> 26:27.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: 1-800-NO-COPIES.
[26:27.310 --> 26:28.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, they spell copies wrong.
[26:28.570 --> 26:29.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: C-O-P-Y-S.
[26:29.570 --> 26:30.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: It should be C-O-P-I-E-S.
[26:30.970 --> 26:32.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like Dunkin' Donuts.
[26:32.070 --> 26:33.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: But listen to this.
[26:33.870 --> 26:41.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Callers who provide information that leads to the arrest and conviction of persons engaged in video piracy may be eligible for a reward.
[26:41.630 --> 26:41.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe.
[26:42.310 --> 26:43.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe eligible for a reward.
[26:43.490 --> 26:43.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[26:43.990 --> 26:44.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[26:44.690 --> 26:46.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Even if it leads to the arrest and conviction.
[26:46.690 --> 26:48.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's still not home free yet.
[26:48.930 --> 26:49.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know?
[26:49.370 --> 26:50.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Certain other qualifications.
[26:50.990 --> 26:56.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: A separate reward will be paid to the first person who provides the location of a pirate video lab.
[26:56.950 --> 26:57.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, kids.
[26:57.850 --> 26:59.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know where a pirate video lab is?
[26:59.970 --> 27:01.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know what a pirate video lab is?
[27:01.670 --> 27:01.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[27:02.010 --> 27:03.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, what do you think a pirate video lab is?
[27:03.950 --> 27:04.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: How would you define one?
[27:05.010 --> 27:06.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have no idea.
[27:06.370 --> 27:06.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, come on.
[27:06.830 --> 27:07.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Use your imagination.
[27:08.530 --> 27:10.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two VCRs sitting on top of one another?
[27:10.890 --> 27:12.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two VCRs sitting on top of one another?
[27:12.970 --> 27:14.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's woefully incorrect, Isaac.
[27:14.590 --> 27:15.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[27:15.110 --> 27:15.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Woefully incorrect.
[27:15.750 --> 27:16.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let me swing the mic over here.
[27:17.030 --> 27:17.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Carl, do you have...
[27:17.890 --> 27:18.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have...
[27:18.710 --> 27:19.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[27:19.710 --> 27:20.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[27:20.290 --> 27:21.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's a video piracy lab?
[27:21.750 --> 27:22.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a large building.
[27:23.110 --> 27:23.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[27:23.670 --> 27:25.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: All glass roofs and windows.
[27:25.890 --> 27:27.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: And lots of green lights.
[27:28.290 --> 27:29.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: And a gas generator.
[27:29.750 --> 27:30.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, now, wait a minute.
[27:30.430 --> 27:32.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: That doesn't sound like a video piracy lab.
[27:33.170 --> 27:34.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sounds like a university.
[27:34.290 --> 27:34.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: A bathtub.
[27:36.210 --> 27:37.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[27:37.970 --> 27:39.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want to try one more time, Isaac?
[27:39.390 --> 27:41.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I'm going to stick with my fire answer.
[27:41.670 --> 27:42.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: You said two VCRs?
[27:42.390 --> 27:43.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, a pair of VCRs.
[27:43.230 --> 27:44.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's not two VCRs.
[27:44.630 --> 27:47.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: How many do you think it really takes to be a video piracy lab?
[27:47.470 --> 27:47.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two or more.
[27:47.730 --> 27:48.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two or more.
[27:48.690 --> 27:50.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a good guess, but it's totally wrong.
[27:51.010 --> 27:52.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, three.
[27:52.430 --> 27:53.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Poor chap, how about you?
[27:54.010 --> 27:57.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess you have an incoming signal from someplace else.
[27:57.570 --> 27:58.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: All you need is one.
[27:58.990 --> 28:00.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: You want to go down in number, huh?
[28:00.730 --> 28:00.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[28:00.890 --> 28:03.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: A single VCR, you can make a video piracy lab?
[28:03.130 --> 28:03.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[28:03.850 --> 28:05.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they're those dual VCRs.
[28:05.250 --> 28:05.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no, no, no.
[28:06.210 --> 28:06.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[28:08.430 --> 28:18.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: The pirate lab must consist of 30 or more VCRs at one location used to produce unauthorized copies of MPAA member company, Motion Pictures.
[28:19.050 --> 28:22.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you have to be a member of the MPAA first.
[28:22.430 --> 28:24.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: So if you're copying independent films, you're okay?
[28:25.210 --> 28:25.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[28:25.630 --> 28:25.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[28:26.090 --> 28:27.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're not going to touch you then.
[28:27.470 --> 28:33.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: But also, and this might be a tip to the piracy labs out there, if you have 29 VCRs, you're not a piracy lab.
[28:34.010 --> 28:34.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're all set.
[28:34.670 --> 28:34.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[28:35.290 --> 28:37.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess you'd need 28, though, because...
[28:37.270 --> 28:39.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're an underfunded piracy lab, or...?
[28:39.690 --> 28:45.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, but they won't touch anything that consists of less than 30 or more VCRs, according to what I'm reading here.
[28:47.290 --> 28:55.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, so you get the separate reward if you find a pirate video lab, but, again, if it has less than 30 VCRs, you want to add a lot.
[28:55.490 --> 28:56.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, you're guaranteed an award?
[28:56.870 --> 29:00.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you may get an award if you lead to the arrest and conviction of somebody.
[29:00.310 --> 29:00.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[29:00.490 --> 29:01.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if...
[29:01.970 --> 29:04.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Whether or not, they are in a video piracy lab.
[29:04.450 --> 29:04.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[29:04.830 --> 29:05.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[29:05.310 --> 29:09.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they want to track down the piracy video labs as well, but they have to have 30 VCRs.
[29:09.670 --> 29:09.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[29:10.170 --> 29:12.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't say anything about 30 working VCRs.
[29:12.590 --> 29:14.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: They could just have a stack of VCRs.
[29:14.590 --> 29:14.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ooh, that could be a problem, yeah.
[29:14.910 --> 29:20.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, you know, any department store, by this definition, any department store could be a...
[29:20.670 --> 29:21.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: P.C.
[29:21.390 --> 29:22.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Richards is...
[29:22.130 --> 29:22.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[29:22.630 --> 29:28.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, video piracy operations, and all you've got to do is prove that they copied one film that's a member of an MPA.
[29:28.410 --> 29:30.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, now, do you have to use all 30 VCRs?
[29:30.470 --> 29:33.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: VCRs, or can you just use VCRs 1 and 2 to make a single copy?
[29:34.030 --> 29:34.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't really say.
[29:34.970 --> 29:36.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's all kinds of little loopholes here.
[29:37.550 --> 29:42.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Information may also be furnished by email if directed to the email hotline at the MPAA in Encino, California.
[29:43.150 --> 29:45.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Informants may remain anonymous if requested, but good luck.
[29:46.690 --> 29:49.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good luck remaining anonymous these days.
[29:49.490 --> 29:52.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that's the latest from that corner.
[29:52.790 --> 29:53.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait a second.
[29:53.430 --> 29:54.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wasn't there something...
[29:54.670 --> 29:55.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Didn't Jack Valenti...
[29:55.750 --> 29:56.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was Jack Valenti.
[29:56.790 --> 29:57.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: He said something that...
[29:57.670 --> 30:01.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: There was nothing about remaining anonymous on the Internet.
[30:01.430 --> 30:02.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was never a right.
[30:02.510 --> 30:03.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was not something we should have.
[30:03.770 --> 30:05.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was the guy from Seagram's last week.
[30:05.670 --> 30:06.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
[30:06.370 --> 30:07.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: It turns out...
[30:07.350 --> 30:08.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: It turns out...
[30:08.010 --> 30:08.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, everybody knows this guy.
[30:09.050 --> 30:13.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: He's also a part of Universal Pictures, because Seagram's owns Universal Pictures.
[30:13.230 --> 30:13.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't know this.
[30:14.010 --> 30:24.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see, I'm paranoid as hell, but I still didn't know that Seagram's owned Universal, and that, you know, it was a whiskey company, or whatever it is that they sell, that was, you know, behind the lawsuit as well.
[30:24.490 --> 30:28.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, now, these guys are saying that anonymity is the enemy.
[30:29.210 --> 30:32.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it must be regulated and stopped, because anonymity is only used for crimes.
[30:33.270 --> 30:33.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, uh...
[30:33.850 --> 30:36.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think the Supreme Court would disagree with him on that.
[30:36.690 --> 30:37.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[30:37.870 --> 30:40.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll just have to see then, because it might very well wind up there.
[30:41.770 --> 30:42.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[30:42.310 --> 30:43.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's time for phone calls.
[30:43.290 --> 30:46.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[30:47.290 --> 30:48.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh...
[30:48.090 --> 30:48.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess, uh...
[30:48.930 --> 30:53.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's an interesting bit of information, you know, about the whole cyber-squatting thing that's going on.
[30:54.030 --> 30:56.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, the cyber-squatting laws in effect now.
[30:57.110 --> 30:57.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Where?
[30:57.630 --> 30:58.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, all over the place.
[30:58.910 --> 30:59.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, here in the States.
[30:59.810 --> 31:00.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here in the States.
[31:00.410 --> 31:04.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's what Verizon's trying to sue us under for having Verizon really sucks.
[31:04.310 --> 31:05.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is anyone who isn't suing you?
[31:06.230 --> 31:07.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not that I know of.
[31:07.710 --> 31:10.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: If anyone isn't suing us, please send us a letter saying...
[31:10.010 --> 31:12.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: A nice certified letter saying you have no intention of suing us.
[31:12.690 --> 31:13.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: That would be kind of nice.
[31:14.150 --> 31:17.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: But here's an example of what I consider true cyber-squatting.
[31:18.170 --> 31:23.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Julia Roberts won a legal battle to prevent anyone else using her name as an internet domain name.
[31:23.790 --> 31:27.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, unless the name is Julia Roberts, you know, you can't really, uh...
[31:27.170 --> 31:29.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can't really say that that's, you know...
[31:29.510 --> 31:30.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: What if it's Julian Roberts?
[31:31.550 --> 31:34.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: The point is, Julia Roberts is a name.
[31:34.490 --> 31:38.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you can have that name, and if you have that name, you have every right to have the site if it isn't taken already.
[31:38.470 --> 31:45.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, the World Intellectual Property Organization, that's something that scares me, granted Roberts exclusive rights to her name.
[31:46.270 --> 31:47.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isn't that nice of them?
[31:47.870 --> 31:50.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: After she filed a complaint against U.S.
[31:50.670 --> 31:52.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: cyber-squatter Russell Boyd.
[31:52.870 --> 31:55.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: No matter how you look at it, Russell Boyd does not translate to Julia Roberts.
[31:56.490 --> 31:57.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: A cyber-squatter is...
[31:58.650 --> 31:59.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this is according to, uh...
[31:59.890 --> 32:02.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe, the Associated Press, or maybe Reuters.
[32:02.310 --> 32:02.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't say here.
[32:03.230 --> 32:03.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: One or the other.
[32:03.810 --> 32:11.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: A cyber-squatter is someone who registers the names of famous people or companies and sells them for a high fee to their rightful owner.
[32:12.610 --> 32:12.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's...
[32:12.970 --> 32:15.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't like the their rightful owner part.
[32:15.250 --> 32:17.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, there's that, but that has...
[32:17.930 --> 32:18.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: that's fairly problematic.
[32:19.090 --> 32:19.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't like people that do that.
[32:20.050 --> 32:22.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't like people that take something and then hold it and say, oh, yeah, I'm gonna...
[32:22.990 --> 32:24.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because they're not doing anything of value.
[32:24.550 --> 32:28.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: All they're doing is getting there first and holding it for ransom.
[32:28.510 --> 32:30.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: At least when we get there first, we do something fun with it.
[32:30.910 --> 32:31.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know?
[32:31.830 --> 32:33.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we don't have any intention.
[32:33.350 --> 32:36.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: All the sites we have, they are not for sale.
[32:36.310 --> 32:37.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: No matter what.
[32:38.110 --> 32:38.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do they sound?
[32:38.950 --> 32:39.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're not for sale.
[32:41.110 --> 32:41.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: So go ahead.
[32:42.070 --> 32:43.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Try offering us a million dollars.
[32:43.410 --> 32:44.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're not going to take it.
[32:44.710 --> 32:44.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[32:44.990 --> 32:45.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Try.
[32:45.410 --> 32:45.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: I dare you.
[32:46.550 --> 32:47.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: And sites are selling.
[32:47.930 --> 32:49.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Portrait, you showed me a list of sites.
[32:50.230 --> 32:51.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where did you get that list?
[32:51.250 --> 32:53.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a list of sites from greatdomains.com.
[32:53.670 --> 32:54.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Greatdomains.com.
[32:54.230 --> 32:54.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a good name.
[32:55.150 --> 32:56.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a good name.
[32:56.170 --> 32:57.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to sell that for a couple.
[32:57.670 --> 33:00.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: But one, I think it was loans.com.
[33:00.890 --> 33:03.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who wants to fathom a guess at how much loans.com went for?
[33:04.010 --> 33:06.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I wouldn't pay any more than 70 bucks for two years.
[33:06.390 --> 33:07.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll tell you that right now.
[33:07.210 --> 33:11.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, apparently someone bought it for three million.
[33:11.850 --> 33:17.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, that just tells me there's too much money out there in the wrong hands.
[33:17.710 --> 33:21.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: People that actually spend three million dollars for a little .com name.
[33:21.610 --> 33:23.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this is advertising again.
[33:23.350 --> 33:28.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where dollar amounts are, you know, anything under six digits is low.
[33:29.330 --> 33:31.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's ridiculous.
[33:31.370 --> 33:34.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, this person, Russell Boyd, a dealer in famous names.
[33:35.130 --> 33:36.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is what you get.
[33:36.150 --> 33:37.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: You get dealers in famous names.
[33:37.210 --> 33:38.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: With this kind of attitude.
[33:38.890 --> 33:42.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Was the first person to register the Pretty Woman Stars title.
[33:42.870 --> 33:45.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: As the web address, Julia Roberts.com.
[33:46.390 --> 33:50.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the WIPO's arbitration panel ruled that Roberts had common law trademark rights on her name.
[33:51.010 --> 33:55.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that Boyd had no rights or a legitimate interest in the domain name.
[33:55.670 --> 34:02.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, the Hollywood actress is just one of 531 claimants from 52 countries to have filed similar complaints with WIPO.
[34:03.850 --> 34:06.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, gotta wonder what the other ones are.
[34:06.490 --> 34:07.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wonder if Verizon is one of them.
[34:08.710 --> 34:09.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Didn't they say actors?
[34:09.990 --> 34:10.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and this is wrong too.
[34:10.990 --> 34:12.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyone can register a website address in the U.S.
[34:12.770 --> 34:13.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: for $100.
[34:13.450 --> 34:16.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, I guess anyone could do that, but you can also get them for as little as $10.
[34:17.490 --> 34:19.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't know anybody that charges $100.
[34:19.550 --> 34:22.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you get two years and, like, almost a third year.
[34:22.950 --> 34:24.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, something like that.
[34:25.170 --> 34:30.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, sports and entertainment names are figuring more and more prominently, according to WIPO.
[34:31.490 --> 34:32.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Trademarks are...
[34:32.450 --> 34:35.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Trademarking is really branding, which is worth a lot of money.
[34:35.110 --> 34:38.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We understand, through these cases, the commercial interest of an identity.
[34:39.470 --> 34:43.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Boyd was ordered to transfer JuliaRoberts.com back to the actress within 45 days.
[34:44.870 --> 34:46.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, should be interesting.
[34:47.490 --> 34:48.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Should be interesting how that goes.
[34:49.130 --> 34:51.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Again, we have VerizonReallySucks.com.
[34:51.430 --> 34:54.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think anyone's going to be confused with, uh, that belonging to Verizon.
[34:55.110 --> 34:55.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we'll see.
[34:55.710 --> 34:56.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll see what happens.
[34:57.170 --> 34:58.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, let's take some phone calls.
[34:58.350 --> 34:59.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900.
[35:01.310 --> 35:02.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, uh...
[35:02.110 --> 35:03.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's go over there.
[35:04.290 --> 35:04.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[35:05.070 --> 35:05.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[35:06.290 --> 35:07.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, hi, Emmanuel.
[35:07.530 --> 35:08.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Shayna, how are you?
[35:08.050 --> 35:08.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, how are you?
[35:08.690 --> 35:08.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's up?
[35:09.170 --> 35:13.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, yeah, I've got a little thing that's actually a reverse of the Julia Roberts.
[35:14.290 --> 35:14.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-oh.
[35:15.110 --> 35:16.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, sort of.
[35:16.290 --> 35:21.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I was reading, actually, in Red Herring, you know, that annoying IPO magazine type thing?
[35:21.550 --> 35:22.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I missed that one.
[35:22.650 --> 35:23.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, they're annoying.
[35:24.030 --> 35:28.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's all about venture capital and, you know, buying lots of .com things.
[35:28.670 --> 35:31.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, anyway, um, Eve.com.
[35:31.290 --> 35:36.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I don't know if you've heard of Eve unless you're wearing lots of makeup, but it's a cosmetic site for women.
[35:36.930 --> 35:39.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they wanted to have the name Eve.com.
[35:39.410 --> 35:44.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, when they started, they realized the website was registered to a, get this, six-year-old girl in Michigan.
[35:45.090 --> 35:45.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, gee.
[35:45.930 --> 35:46.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, named Eve.
[35:46.850 --> 35:47.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that ought to be easy.
[35:48.150 --> 35:54.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it turns out what happened is, uh, they decided to make her a shareholder in Eve.com.
[35:54.410 --> 35:57.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, and apparently she's got quite a trust fund happening now.
[35:57.290 --> 35:57.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's interesting.
[35:58.610 --> 36:00.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh, yeah.
[36:00.390 --> 36:03.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: As long as she had the right to say no, you know?
[36:03.470 --> 36:03.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[36:03.550 --> 36:04.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's all I care about.
[36:04.730 --> 36:15.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: I would guess she had a right to say no, but I think, um, you know, being a six-year-old and having probably parents who might be interested in a lot of money, you know, I'm sure Eve would have probably bought them out for the name.
[36:15.970 --> 36:21.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: But what's amazing is, I don't know how many people remember, uh, several years ago when it was free to register sites.
[36:21.830 --> 36:21.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[36:22.210 --> 36:23.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: People were registering all kinds of things.
[36:24.030 --> 36:27.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: All kinds of, of really cool-sounding names were, were belonging to hackers.
[36:27.790 --> 36:32.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, how did all these names get into the hands of, of, you know, of commercial America?
[36:32.750 --> 36:34.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, maybe they, they...
[36:34.010 --> 36:35.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did they buy them from the hackers?
[36:35.470 --> 36:35.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[36:35.990 --> 36:36.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe so.
[36:36.430 --> 36:37.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe they intimidated them.
[36:37.570 --> 36:37.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[36:37.930 --> 36:39.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd like to hear some stories out there.
[36:39.230 --> 36:45.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I hear lots of intimidating stories about how people have names that a corporation wants and it just, uh, threaten them.
[36:45.010 --> 36:47.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, lots of times that letter is enough, you know, that, that legal threat.
[36:48.090 --> 36:54.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Especially if you're living with your parents or something and you get a letter from, you know, some mega corporation saying they're going to sue you if you don't give them what they want.
[36:54.730 --> 36:56.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, parents are going to say, give them what they want.
[36:57.050 --> 36:59.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't need, you know, whatever.com.
[36:59.510 --> 37:01.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, mom, hi, I'm sued by WIPO now.
[37:02.190 --> 37:02.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[37:02.690 --> 37:03.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bad, yeah.
[37:03.790 --> 37:07.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, I just thought I'd let you know, though, about that.
[37:07.170 --> 37:10.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, by the way, did you know about, um, RIAA with MP3 board?
[37:10.770 --> 37:11.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, tell us about that.
[37:11.610 --> 37:11.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh.
[37:11.790 --> 37:15.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, um, actually, um, this is on one of Declan's mailing lists.
[37:15.790 --> 37:24.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, it's, uh, the RIAA has actually filed a suit against MP3board.com, um, for, uh, hyperlinking.
[37:25.450 --> 37:26.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, great.
[37:26.690 --> 37:26.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[37:27.490 --> 37:29.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, 2600 is not lonely anymore.
[37:30.050 --> 37:33.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, there have been a lot of, of, of linking issues brought up recently.
[37:34.350 --> 37:36.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's, uh, that's, that's pretty scary.
[37:36.470 --> 37:36.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[37:36.930 --> 37:37.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, anyway.
[37:37.750 --> 37:38.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[37:38.270 --> 37:38.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[37:41.890 --> 37:44.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: 2900, you're shaking your head in, in, in disbelief, Isaac.
[37:44.950 --> 37:46.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, well, more dismay than disbelief.
[37:46.830 --> 37:47.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, that's disbelief.
[37:48.130 --> 37:48.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[37:48.730 --> 37:48.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[37:49.690 --> 37:50.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's dismay.
[37:50.490 --> 37:50.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[37:50.730 --> 37:51.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is dismay.
[37:51.270 --> 37:51.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[37:51.850 --> 37:52.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you got to know the difference.
[37:52.950 --> 37:54.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, yeah, it's, it's, it's getting...
[37:54.290 --> 37:55.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was at a mirror here so I could, you know...
[37:55.410 --> 37:56.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's getting crazy out there.
[37:56.790 --> 37:57.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: It really is.
[37:57.350 --> 37:57.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Getting crazy.
[37:58.170 --> 37:59.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I mean, it's getting more...
[38:00.050 --> 38:00.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's the word?
[38:01.090 --> 38:01.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Litigious?
[38:01.750 --> 38:02.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that the word?
[38:02.570 --> 38:02.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Litigious.
[38:03.110 --> 38:03.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, litigious.
[38:03.810 --> 38:05.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's that, you know, everyone's suing everyone...
[38:05.930 --> 38:07.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, you'll be quiet or I'll sue you.
[38:07.490 --> 38:12.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, over, over, over things that we always did and it was not a big deal back when the internet was fun.
[38:12.810 --> 38:18.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you'd link to whatever it is you wanted to link to and nobody said anything because how could you, you know?
[38:19.930 --> 38:20.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's ridiculous.
[38:21.070 --> 38:21.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[38:22.250 --> 38:23.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[38:23.950 --> 38:24.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, hello.
[38:24.710 --> 38:25.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: How you doing?
[38:25.550 --> 38:29.110]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, my initials happen to spell out PEZ.
[38:30.150 --> 38:34.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, would the PEZ company actually sue me if I registered a name?
[38:34.290 --> 38:35.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I don't think...
[38:35.350 --> 38:37.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess you didn't register the name, right?
[38:37.130 --> 38:38.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because they must have it by now.
[38:39.390 --> 38:41.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, but I was going to register a foreign site.
[38:42.150 --> 38:42.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[38:43.010 --> 38:43.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: See, that's the thing.
[38:43.730 --> 38:46.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think they have any jurisdiction over foreign sites.
[38:46.270 --> 38:47.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't see how they could.
[38:47.850 --> 38:48.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: World.
[38:48.730 --> 38:49.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah, the world thing.
[38:50.190 --> 38:52.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: The WIPO, WTO, all that.
[38:52.130 --> 38:54.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I guess that's one way of extending the reach.
[38:54.770 --> 38:55.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: World.
[38:55.950 --> 38:58.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're your initials, right?
[38:58.530 --> 38:59.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: They really are your initials.
[38:59.770 --> 38:59.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.
[39:00.110 --> 39:01.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, go register it.
[39:01.030 --> 39:10.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right, and did you know that Verizon now has a Denmark site registered, and I think a Canadian site, and a France site?
[39:10.890 --> 39:11.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[39:11.790 --> 39:13.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have spent so much money.
[39:13.570 --> 39:13.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact...
[39:13.890 --> 39:17.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: They gave some division a budget, and they're just, like, burning it.
[39:17.410 --> 39:17.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[39:17.810 --> 39:22.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in the new issue of 2600, you will see every single site we could find that they registered.
[39:22.510 --> 39:25.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are a lot of sites other people registered as well, but these are the ones they registered.
[39:25.130 --> 39:26.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: And some of them are pretty funny.
[39:26.750 --> 39:27.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some of them really are.
[39:27.670 --> 39:28.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll give you one.
[39:29.350 --> 39:29.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: OverTheVerizon.com.
[39:30.110 --> 39:30.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think of that, Isaac?
[39:31.310 --> 39:31.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: OverTheVerizon.com.
[39:32.470 --> 39:33.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: OverTheVerizon.com.
[39:33.350 --> 39:33.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's...
[39:33.670 --> 39:34.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it sucks.
[39:34.370 --> 39:34.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's terrible.
[39:35.090 --> 39:35.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's stupid.
[39:35.890 --> 39:36.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's corny.
[39:36.790 --> 39:37.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's...
[39:37.030 --> 39:37.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're looking over the Verizon.
[39:37.970 --> 39:39.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Over the Verizon, yeah.
[39:40.450 --> 39:41.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: What the hell's a Verizon?
[39:41.850 --> 39:42.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it sure is.
[39:43.010 --> 39:43.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, thanks for that call.
[39:44.670 --> 39:46.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I mean, you can't get Zenith.
[39:46.390 --> 39:47.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, didn't they go under?
[39:47.250 --> 39:47.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or were they bought out?
[39:48.690 --> 39:49.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[39:49.310 --> 39:51.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're not here to talk about the fate of corporations, all right?
[39:51.890 --> 39:52.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[39:52.070 --> 39:54.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're talking about the fate of individuals, and it doesn't look good right now.
[39:55.390 --> 39:55.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's go over here.
[39:56.070 --> 39:56.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[39:56.330 --> 39:56.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[39:58.170 --> 39:58.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[39:58.650 --> 39:59.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was interesting.
[39:59.310 --> 40:00.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's try over here.
[40:00.770 --> 40:00.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[40:01.070 --> 40:01.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[40:02.970 --> 40:03.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Speak up, please.
[40:03.730 --> 40:04.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, hi.
[40:04.810 --> 40:05.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, go ahead.
[40:05.630 --> 40:06.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, hi, Emmanuel.
[40:06.750 --> 40:08.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can I do a Napster question?
[40:08.690 --> 40:09.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, go ahead.
[40:09.390 --> 40:09.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[40:10.130 --> 40:14.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was saying to my 12-year-old, I said, listen, you know, we have Napster on our PC.
[40:14.790 --> 40:25.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I said, if you have Dr. Dre or Metallica, you should delete them, because I had read in Newsweek that they delivered a box with, I don't know, 30,000 users' names or something.
[40:25.530 --> 40:26.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Try 300,000 users.
[40:26.930 --> 40:27.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: 300,000.
[40:27.730 --> 40:29.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't think they had that many fans, but okay.
[40:30.170 --> 40:33.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: He said, but I didn't use my real name.
[40:33.450 --> 40:34.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that kind of stumped me.
[40:35.050 --> 40:37.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I said, I don't know, maybe from the IP number?
[40:37.030 --> 40:38.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: How do they do that?
[40:38.590 --> 40:48.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know they put something in the registry of your system that makes it impossible for your system, unless you get in there and use some kind of editing utility to get rid of that.
[40:48.070 --> 40:51.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you can't register at Napster anymore.
[40:52.410 --> 40:57.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's, you know, fulfilling the wishes of Metallica.
[40:57.230 --> 40:58.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you have to go into RegEdit.
[40:58.590 --> 40:59.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to nuke that key.
[40:59.890 --> 41:04.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then you can't use the account or the email address to the account anymore.
[41:04.810 --> 41:06.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you realize what you've just done, Isaac?
[41:06.530 --> 41:06.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: What have I done?
[41:07.030 --> 41:15.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: You've helped people rip off these poor, starving rock stars, all right, that want their music to be...
[41:15.830 --> 41:16.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did I get specific instructions?
[41:16.570 --> 41:17.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: You just did.
[41:17.310 --> 41:18.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: You said that I'd go into RegEdit.
[41:18.970 --> 41:19.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[41:19.190 --> 41:21.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: People right now are doing this everywhere around the world.
[41:21.390 --> 41:22.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're going to RegEdit.
[41:22.610 --> 41:23.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's the next step again?
[41:24.870 --> 41:25.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Edit out the key.
[41:25.230 --> 41:26.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't tell you how to use RegEdit.
[41:26.710 --> 41:26.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.
[41:27.410 --> 41:28.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: What was it, poor Chuck?
[41:28.130 --> 41:28.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to edit out the key.
[41:29.050 --> 41:29.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Edit out the key.
[41:29.870 --> 41:29.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[41:30.050 --> 41:30.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're doing that.
[41:30.950 --> 41:33.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then they're not using the same email address, right?
[41:33.870 --> 41:35.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: And can they use the same IP?
[41:35.770 --> 41:36.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[41:36.290 --> 41:37.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: They can use the same IP by a different email address.
[41:37.850 --> 41:38.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: So people are doing that.
[41:38.990 --> 41:39.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you're helping.
[41:39.950 --> 41:40.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not helping anyone.
[41:41.130 --> 41:41.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Shame on you.
[41:42.110 --> 41:43.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just putting out the information.
[41:44.710 --> 41:45.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you should be helping.
[41:46.030 --> 41:47.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: You should be helping because it's all nonsense.
[41:48.250 --> 41:48.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[41:48.430 --> 41:49.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900.
[41:50.170 --> 41:50.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[41:50.750 --> 41:51.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[41:51.230 --> 41:51.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a feeling this is a rebel.
[41:52.870 --> 41:54.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening, sir.
[41:54.610 --> 41:55.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: How did I know?
[41:55.290 --> 41:55.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see, I could tell.
[41:56.310 --> 41:56.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: You see?
[41:57.170 --> 41:57.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[41:57.510 --> 41:59.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, I guess you recognize me all these years.
[42:00.090 --> 42:00.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't called in a while.
[42:01.890 --> 42:02.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, you've called in a while.
[42:02.970 --> 42:04.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: We just haven't picked up in a while.
[42:04.830 --> 42:05.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[42:05.310 --> 42:05.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Make it quick.
[42:06.270 --> 42:07.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's on your mind?
[42:07.630 --> 42:07.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: What?
[42:08.410 --> 42:09.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: I said what's on your mind.
[42:09.890 --> 42:11.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I want to make this as brief as possible.
[42:11.870 --> 42:13.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just noticed that a lot of things are not working anymore.
[42:14.370 --> 42:15.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: You noticed that, too, huh?
[42:17.110 --> 42:17.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[42:17.690 --> 42:19.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, is there somebody you want to blame?
[42:21.190 --> 42:21.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess not.
[42:23.370 --> 42:24.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: You cannot make...
[42:25.750 --> 42:27.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is how I like to hear Rebel.
[42:27.570 --> 42:28.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know?
[42:28.330 --> 42:29.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: The sprint effect.
[42:31.270 --> 42:31.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[42:31.890 --> 42:33.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: What service are you using, Rebel?
[42:35.890 --> 42:38.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that was sprint, wasn't it?
[42:38.830 --> 42:39.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what it sounded like.
[42:39.570 --> 42:40.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's going in the record book.
[42:40.730 --> 42:41.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's good.
[42:42.070 --> 42:42.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[42:43.450 --> 42:44.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900.
[42:44.330 --> 42:45.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: 2900, what's up?
[42:45.150 --> 42:46.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have open lines.
[42:46.350 --> 42:47.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Usually all the lines are full.
[42:47.430 --> 42:49.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: We only have about five or six lines lit.
[42:49.390 --> 42:50.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's going on out there?
[42:50.490 --> 42:51.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: People, come on.
[42:51.430 --> 42:53.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, we have listeners all over the world, right?
[42:53.350 --> 42:55.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: So those of you up in Canada, give us a call.
[42:55.530 --> 42:58.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Those of you overseas, okay, the United States, too.
[42:58.910 --> 42:59.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give us a call.
[42:59.550 --> 43:00.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Country code 1.
[43:01.190 --> 43:02.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900.
[43:03.630 --> 43:04.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's try this one.
[43:04.750 --> 43:05.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[43:05.310 --> 43:05.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[43:06.350 --> 43:06.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, good evening.
[43:07.190 --> 43:07.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[43:07.910 --> 43:08.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm all right.
[43:09.070 --> 43:20.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I was having a debate with my brother-in-law, not much of a debate, a discussion on the whole idea of MP3, and we're thinking about the fact that CD sales are really not down from what I hear.
[43:20.890 --> 43:21.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're actually up.
[43:21.710 --> 43:22.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
[43:23.210 --> 43:32.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we like the idea of being able to preview tracks from artists we've never heard of, and then we can actually make a decision, well, maybe I'll go out and buy the CD.
[43:32.450 --> 43:38.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, in my mind, this is actually going to help the music industry in a lot of ways.
[43:38.590 --> 43:50.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because, as you know, if you go to, you know, Barnes & Noble, or if you go to Tower Records or Virgin, you know, they have these listening stations, which are great, but they only have a certain limited amount of CDs that they put up on listening stations.
[43:50.130 --> 43:51.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's never anything I want to listen to.
[43:51.650 --> 43:51.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[43:52.330 --> 43:59.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it'd be great if you could just pull anything out of the stock, but even then, if they don't stock it, even if you could pull it out and say, hey, I want to hear this.
[44:00.890 --> 44:10.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas, on the internet, you know, you could really pull up not only things that, you know, things that are small labels or independent labels, where you could just email them and order it.
[44:10.210 --> 44:10.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[44:10.430 --> 44:15.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the real potential of the Snapster thing, and that's why I like it, because you can do things like that.
[44:15.930 --> 44:24.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Many times, I've been on the phone with somebody, and I say, hey, you know, this is a band that sounds really good, and I hold the phone up to the speaker and play them some things, and then they're interested.
[44:24.450 --> 44:24.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[44:24.730 --> 44:25.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: And how could I do that otherwise?
[44:25.930 --> 44:32.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I don't have, I don't happen to have that particular CD, and even if I did, I'd have to walk over to where the CD player is, and that's a real pain.
[44:32.710 --> 44:34.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's a good way to communicate things like that.
[44:34.630 --> 44:39.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: There are just so many artists out there who independently produce their own CDs and have no way of marketing them.
[44:40.790 --> 44:41.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's definitely true.
[44:41.790 --> 44:45.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the record industry is kind of overreacting.
[44:45.750 --> 44:46.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know about the RIAA.
[44:47.550 --> 44:51.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's, God, there's about a dozen labels that have all joined in that suit.
[44:52.150 --> 45:04.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it seems to me that they eventually will probably have to give up a certain amount of their chutzpah about this, because there's only so much they can do to control it.
[45:04.610 --> 45:19.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think, I think a lot of artists who are overreacting to it also don't understand their own fans, because I'm not going to say, if I can download a few live tracks from my favorite artists, it doesn't mean I'm not going to go out and buy their next live CD.
[45:19.150 --> 45:20.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or go to the next concert.
[45:20.710 --> 45:21.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or go to the next concert.
[45:21.610 --> 45:22.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right, exactly.
[45:22.010 --> 45:25.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it may prompt me to buy even more of their material.
[45:25.650 --> 45:31.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, in fact, bootlegs in the past have actually forced artists to release those materials commercially, and they made money from them.
[45:32.650 --> 45:40.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, you know, the thing that makes it also hypocritical is they don't complain when someone plays music on the radio and maybe a million people are listening, you know.
[45:40.690 --> 45:42.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're not getting any money from that.
[45:42.750 --> 45:47.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have them on Saturday night or something, and everybody's watching, but nobody is paying.
[45:47.590 --> 45:51.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because, you know, they work it out with, you know, they have the control.
[45:51.770 --> 45:55.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: The record companies have control over what song gets played when.
[45:55.230 --> 46:01.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when people start taking that control, and they decide what song they want to play and when, that's all of a sudden a threat.
[46:01.810 --> 46:03.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's a threat to the status quo.
[46:03.190 --> 46:05.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And each recording device has also been attacked.
[46:05.190 --> 46:14.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember before Chrome tapes, the high-quality recording tapes came out, there was a fight about that because they didn't want people to have a high-quality copy of a record that they could bootleg.
[46:14.510 --> 46:20.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You've seen it with every advance in technology, from cassettes, cassettes, CDs, DATs, DVDs, everything.
[46:20.570 --> 46:21.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: But they've lost each one.
[46:21.790 --> 46:24.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: They eventually adopt it, and they wind up making lots of money.
[46:24.910 --> 46:28.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: But unfortunately, you can't force an industry to make a good business move.
[46:28.750 --> 46:30.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I would think that the first...
[46:30.290 --> 46:31.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, there are ways.
[46:31.370 --> 46:39.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are ways of consumer power forcing, you know, either you go ahead and do something consumers want, or you don't, and then you just don't survive anymore.
[46:39.370 --> 46:44.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: I imagine that the first label that starts really releasing this stuff and supporting the format would probably win big.
[46:44.970 --> 46:45.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think so, too.
[46:45.590 --> 46:54.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, just quickly, before I go, they might be giants, released an album called Long Tall Weekend, and it's only available on MP3, and you have to order it, you have to buy it.
[46:54.930 --> 46:56.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how they set this up.
[46:56.750 --> 46:58.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm assuming the quality is excellent.
[46:59.070 --> 46:59.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting.
[46:59.910 --> 47:01.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you actually can't get the CD.
[47:01.890 --> 47:02.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not available on CD.
[47:03.010 --> 47:05.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's all these new tracks that came out, like, last year or the year before.
[47:05.730 --> 47:08.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: They haven't had a regular CD release since 96.
[47:08.610 --> 47:10.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I actually kind of was annoyed by that.
[47:10.730 --> 47:16.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, well, what about people who don't have access to a computer, and they like the band, and they can't get the CD?
[47:17.170 --> 47:18.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's kind of elitist, in a way.
[47:18.890 --> 47:19.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is kind of elitist.
[47:19.890 --> 47:20.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[47:20.450 --> 47:21.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's another aspect to it.
[47:21.610 --> 47:21.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[47:22.410 --> 47:23.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for the call.
[47:28.410 --> 47:31.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the RAA, so there's really no incentive, you know...
[47:31.650 --> 47:33.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're all not members of Recording Industry of America?
[47:33.250 --> 47:34.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's like the MPA.
[47:34.190 --> 47:37.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: You only have certain studios who are member companies.
[47:38.210 --> 47:38.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting.
[47:38.950 --> 47:39.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[47:40.710 --> 47:41.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[47:41.910 --> 47:43.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900.
[47:44.910 --> 47:45.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[47:45.490 --> 47:45.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[47:46.570 --> 47:47.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to represent...
[47:47.890 --> 47:48.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hold on a second.
[47:48.670 --> 47:49.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
[47:49.230 --> 47:50.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, you must take your phone away from the radio.
[47:51.070 --> 47:51.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sorry, sorry, sorry.
[47:51.330 --> 47:51.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[47:52.330 --> 47:55.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to represent a minority opinion on this subject.
[47:55.470 --> 47:55.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[47:56.570 --> 47:57.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm a singer-songwriter.
[47:58.410 --> 47:58.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[47:59.130 --> 48:01.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I've been a member of ASCAP for 20 years.
[48:01.750 --> 48:04.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think, Emmanuel, you said something inaccurate.
[48:04.970 --> 48:07.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I know it's a precedent-setting, but...
[48:09.450 --> 48:10.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think...
[48:10.270 --> 48:14.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Didn't you just say that when they sing on Saturday Night Live, they don't get paid?
[48:14.370 --> 48:16.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they get paid by Saturday night.
[48:16.230 --> 48:16.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[48:16.430 --> 48:17.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: They control it, I guess.
[48:17.690 --> 48:18.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's something else.
[48:18.290 --> 48:18.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's that?
[48:19.850 --> 48:24.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, as a member of ASCAP, my songs are registered with them.
[48:24.950 --> 48:39.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if I had a song that was sung on Saturday Night Live, I would get money for that, because ASCAP monitors and BMI monitors the TV, the radio.
[48:39.790 --> 48:42.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't monitor BAI, right?
[48:42.430 --> 48:43.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because they don't make money.
[48:43.810 --> 48:45.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not commercial radio.
[48:45.310 --> 48:47.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they don't really monitor NPR.
[48:48.010 --> 48:53.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: But they do monitor commercial TV and radio.
[48:53.770 --> 48:58.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the artist, the writer, gets a mechanical.
[48:58.370 --> 48:59.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's called a mechanical.
[49:00.430 --> 49:02.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that was not accurate.
[49:02.290 --> 49:07.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, my point was that somebody has to decide to put that artist on Saturday night.
[49:07.150 --> 49:09.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Somebody has to decide what song to play on Saturday night.
[49:09.810 --> 49:14.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the people that are deciding that are the ones that control what music gets out.
[49:14.170 --> 49:17.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, when individuals start making that kind of decision, that's when people get nervous.
[49:18.790 --> 49:19.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[49:19.570 --> 49:24.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: On the other subject, you know, I have mixed feelings about this, you know.
[49:24.410 --> 49:30.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, because, like, I'm getting ready to release my own CD in around two months.
[49:30.890 --> 49:37.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's cost me oodles of money over the years to pay musicians, to go to studio.
[49:37.990 --> 49:39.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it's expensive.
[49:40.210 --> 49:45.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, my whole career has been, like, out of pocket, out of pocket, out of pocket.
[49:45.330 --> 49:51.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the only way I'm going to be collecting my investment, I mean, we're not even talking profit.
[49:51.310 --> 49:54.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're talking about making back the money I've laid out.
[49:54.750 --> 49:56.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is to be selling my CDs.
[49:57.190 --> 50:01.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: And while I'm not, you know, Whitney Houston or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[50:02.010 --> 50:05.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I do intend to sell my CDs.
[50:05.890 --> 50:12.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: And every time somebody dubbed it, you know, that's money out of my pocket.
[50:12.710 --> 50:14.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: And yet I can't claim that I've never dubbed.
[50:15.550 --> 50:17.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, except for the fact that...
[50:17.770 --> 50:19.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, first of all, do you have your own record label?
[50:19.850 --> 50:20.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or are you going through something else?
[50:20.950 --> 50:21.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[50:22.110 --> 50:27.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: When somebody dubs your material, first of all, they're not necessarily going to buy it if they don't dub it.
[50:27.250 --> 50:31.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Second of all, by dubbing it, they're playing it for somebody else.
[50:31.610 --> 50:33.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're helping you with your exposure.
[50:33.250 --> 50:34.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Record companies do the same thing.
[50:34.490 --> 50:38.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: They send promotional copies all over the place to get people to listen.
[50:38.250 --> 50:39.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they push certain things.
[50:39.390 --> 50:47.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have your fans out there doing that for you, pushing your music and exposing you to various places, other people are going to hear it and they're going to buy it.
[50:47.190 --> 50:48.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's no question about that.
[50:48.890 --> 50:51.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: But that's a business choice that she has to make.
[50:52.230 --> 50:53.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it is.
[50:53.350 --> 50:55.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't take it upon yourself to deal with it.
[50:55.270 --> 50:56.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not cut and dried.
[50:56.630 --> 50:58.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it's not a cut and dried thing.
[50:59.390 --> 51:04.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, I guess my rationale...
[51:04.470 --> 51:08.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, I have a lot of singer-songwriter friends who put out their own CDs.
[51:08.810 --> 51:10.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: I do not dub their CDs.
[51:11.330 --> 51:12.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I will pay.
[51:12.790 --> 51:16.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: And when I want a friend to hear it, I will buy another CD.
[51:16.230 --> 51:19.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, because that's their bread and butter.
[51:19.150 --> 51:22.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're, you know, especially political musicians.
[51:22.870 --> 51:23.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jesus.
[51:23.610 --> 51:25.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think a lot of fans understand that.
[51:25.710 --> 51:27.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a lot of fans would do just that to support you.
[51:28.010 --> 51:28.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Look at the Grateful Dead.
[51:29.070 --> 51:31.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, they had all their concerts.
[51:31.130 --> 51:33.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: They let people tape things and trade things freely.
[51:33.550 --> 51:33.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[51:33.730 --> 51:35.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: But they still, their fans supported them.
[51:36.010 --> 51:37.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the Grateful Dead were a mega...
[51:37.410 --> 51:40.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, they were good guys, but they were a mega business, too.
[51:40.650 --> 51:41.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah, of course.
[51:41.810 --> 51:43.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're the most extreme example of that.
[51:43.730 --> 51:57.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I'm talking about, you know, independent, small fry, you know, artists trying to, you know, and that's one of the beauties of the Internet these days is that you're not so beholden to the moguls who make all the decisions.
[51:58.010 --> 52:06.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, but the flip side of that to consider is particularly, you know, when you have artists who are the kind of artists who would be played on BAI Right.
[52:07.110 --> 52:08.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because they're doing political stuff.
[52:09.010 --> 52:19.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you know, unless you're doing alternative rock, if you're trying to do, like, political jazz or, you know, other genres, it is, like, very hard.
[52:19.790 --> 52:20.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, of course.
[52:20.130 --> 52:22.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: And how do you think you're going to get your music distributed?
[52:22.350 --> 52:23.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not going to be from these record companies.
[52:24.130 --> 52:26.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not going to be from radio stations except BAI.
[52:26.010 --> 52:26.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, no, I'm doing it on the Internet.
[52:27.070 --> 52:27.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[52:27.490 --> 52:28.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's what you have to do.
[52:28.970 --> 52:32.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to distribute it and get it out there on the net.
[52:32.390 --> 52:49.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, Emmanuel, appreciate that, you know, like, let's say if, like, my whole CD was put up in a, like, a Napster context, then how would I recoup my investment?
[52:49.870 --> 52:54.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, because, first of all, when it's on MP3, it's not as good as CD.
[52:54.110 --> 52:56.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's close, but it's not as good as CD quality.
[52:56.830 --> 53:00.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Second of all, a true fan wants the real CD.
[53:00.270 --> 53:02.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I speak as a true fan of many artists.
[53:02.610 --> 53:06.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I will always want the real thing rather than something I download over the net.
[53:06.530 --> 53:15.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And third, there are so many more people that will hear your music as a result of it being distributed in this manner that the percentages will just, you know, even it out anyway.
[53:15.710 --> 53:21.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: The explanation is that maybe they'll be more inclined to come to a live performance because they heard you on the Internet.
[53:21.870 --> 53:24.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but you have to get your name out there somehow.
[53:24.690 --> 53:35.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: And since you don't have, and I'm glad you don't, the big mega corporations pushing your music and forcing people to play it on certain stations, you're going to get people coming to you just because they like your music.
[53:35.070 --> 53:37.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if they really like your music, they'll want to support it.
[53:37.650 --> 53:42.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to believe in fans that much that they will actually be there for you.
[53:42.510 --> 53:56.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I just think there needs to be some acknowledgement sometimes, and I'll end on this note, that the left, you know, the cultural left can, or rather, the left in terms of supporting its own cultural artists can be very fickle sometimes.
[53:56.810 --> 53:57.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yes, I know.
[53:57.690 --> 54:18.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, one of the biggest complaints that political artists have is if you think about all the demonstrations and the fundraisers and the events that political artists are asked to perform at for free, you know, every once in a while, some of us say,
[54:18.390 --> 54:26.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: you know, are you asking the caterer to, like, give their services for free, and the sound guy to give their services for free?
[54:26.710 --> 54:31.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, there's this, there is this attitude, you know, I'm just saying it's not black and white.
[54:31.690 --> 54:36.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes artists are given a bum rap for being divas or prima donnas, you know.
[54:37.070 --> 54:45.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the other side of the coin is, you know, a lot of us, you know, we're not even at ground zero in terms of struggling to get by.
[54:45.650 --> 54:55.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: So many of us have to do crap jobs, like everyone else, you know, to, you know, to be able to do our art and to pay for our music habit that we have.
[54:55.850 --> 54:56.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[54:56.170 --> 55:12.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: And which doesn't mean we're not good, but it just means that maybe we're working in a genre and with material that the moguls, you know, who run the companies are not pushing this year or this decade since Reagan or whatever.
[55:13.170 --> 55:29.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: So the result of that is, I don't know if you remember, during the Gulf War, I was living out in California at the time, and it was, it was really striking to me how few music artists came out against the war during that time.
[55:29.950 --> 55:30.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was nothing.
[55:30.770 --> 55:32.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: And as a matter of fact, it was the opposite.
[55:32.810 --> 55:39.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: You had that whole, remember that video that even Whoopi Goldberg participated in to support our troops in the Gulf.
[55:39.810 --> 55:57.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: And one of the things, like I was saying at that time is, now you knew there were artists who were against the war, but I think what happens over the years is that, you know, whatever political art, and it's really not easy to be a political artist these days.
[55:57.770 --> 56:01.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it never has been, but it's been, it never has been.
[56:01.310 --> 56:05.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I think there are certain periods in history in which it's even more challenging.
[56:05.910 --> 56:10.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: See, my view on that is that there was, there were lots of people that had something to say during the Gulf War.
[56:11.150 --> 56:12.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: We didn't know where to go to find it.
[56:13.070 --> 56:14.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: You couldn't find it in your record store.
[56:14.310 --> 56:16.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: You certainly couldn't turn on the radio except for BAI and find it.
[56:17.310 --> 56:21.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you might be able to, to search on the net, find it that way.
[56:21.490 --> 56:25.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if it really, if it's something you're really into, believe me, you are going to go out and buy it.
[56:25.450 --> 56:30.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now keep in mind, people, most people anyway, who are musicians, true musicians, aren't doing it to be rich.
[56:30.730 --> 56:32.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're doing it because they want to do it.
[56:32.790 --> 56:34.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: They want to get their, their music out.
[56:35.550 --> 56:38.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: If they get, if they get, if they want to make a living.
[56:38.270 --> 56:38.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[56:38.550 --> 56:42.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: If they get rich, that's a side benefit to it, but it should never be the goal.
[56:42.990 --> 56:44.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think for too many people, that's the goal.
[56:44.890 --> 56:45.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, no, no, no, no.
[56:45.390 --> 56:46.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is a decision that the artist makes.
[56:47.730 --> 56:56.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unfortunately, unfortunately, in the music business, it's like you're either not even getting by or you're getting rich.
[56:57.130 --> 57:02.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, and, and, and, and there are many people who would feel rich if they could just pay their rent from their music.
[57:03.150 --> 57:03.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know what I'm saying?
[57:03.890 --> 57:04.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[57:04.270 --> 57:04.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[57:04.530 --> 57:12.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's, that, that's what I think is more common than what we consider to be musicians these days, the rock superstars, which everyone seems to think is what it's all about.
[57:12.250 --> 57:13.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's not what it's all about.
[57:13.490 --> 57:16.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not with the people, not with the demographic that I'm talking about.
[57:16.670 --> 57:17.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, thank you very much.
[57:17.810 --> 57:18.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[57:18.110 --> 57:18.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for the call.
[57:18.750 --> 57:18.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Carl.
[57:19.310 --> 57:25.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's important that you don't assume that everyone's a criminal in terms of when it comes to downloading music.
[57:25.210 --> 57:25.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[57:25.790 --> 57:27.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, everyone's saying, what if someone's going to steal?
[57:28.110 --> 57:28.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: What if someone's going to steal?
[57:28.750 --> 57:31.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: But most people in this world just aren't thieves.
[57:31.730 --> 57:33.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: We really should, you know, treat people that way.
[57:34.030 --> 57:38.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: But on the flip side of that, if you treat people like thieves, they will start acting like thieves, just like any kind of crime.
[57:38.770 --> 57:39.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Probably.
[57:39.150 --> 57:40.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you just can't assume that they're thieves.
[57:40.810 --> 57:45.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: The person doing the downloading does have to be responsible and recognize the wishes of the artists.
[57:45.550 --> 57:48.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't go out and appropriate someone else's work for your uses.
[57:49.530 --> 57:54.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just like you can't go walking down the street, like push the carpenter off the second floor and say, I want this house.
[57:54.470 --> 57:56.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but you see, you also have to balance that with reality.
[57:56.710 --> 58:00.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, you could have artists that say, I don't want anybody humming my song.
[58:00.170 --> 58:00.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's my song.
[58:01.110 --> 58:01.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't hum it.
[58:01.770 --> 58:01.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[58:02.270 --> 58:02.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[58:02.550 --> 58:06.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, are you actually going to say that that's something that, you know, is realistic?
[58:06.950 --> 58:09.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: In this day and age, I don't know how realistic that is.
[58:09.290 --> 58:13.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: He can call you into court for that, and it will probably be thrown away... You really think you can haul someone into court for humming a song?
[58:13.730 --> 58:13.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
[58:13.790 --> 58:16.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it will be thrown away for being remarkably frivolous.
[58:16.650 --> 58:18.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have a new entry here with one minute left to go.
[58:18.810 --> 58:19.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, Chris.
[58:19.490 --> 58:26.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, there are some restrictions on what artists can and can't, as far as their rights, what they can and can't restrict the use of.
[58:27.210 --> 58:31.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: And as far as you just walking down the street humming it, there's no profit being made on that.
[58:31.230 --> 58:34.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know that the Girl Scouts can't sing Happy Birthday around a campfire?
[58:34.890 --> 58:35.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[58:35.130 --> 58:36.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because of the recording industry of America?
[58:37.030 --> 58:37.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know that?
[58:37.690 --> 58:39.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're not allowed to sing Happy Birthday.
[58:40.030 --> 58:42.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that's the mentality we're talking about here.
[58:42.450 --> 58:45.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unless they were going to sing it in satire, or a couple of the other outs for copyright.
[58:45.590 --> 58:46.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, please.
[58:46.570 --> 58:47.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is important.
[58:47.050 --> 58:49.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's totally insane is what it is, you know?
[58:49.470 --> 58:52.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: To tell people they can't sing a song around a campfire, that's just nuts.
[58:52.950 --> 58:55.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we're going to have to end on that, unfortunately.
[58:55.790 --> 58:57.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can continue this next week.
[58:57.070 --> 58:58.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd love to talk about this.
[58:58.530 --> 59:01.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a whole lot more exciting than worrying about who's going to sue us next.
[59:03.110 --> 59:03.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[59:03.750 --> 59:08.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: For Isaac and Carl and Porkchop, Chris, have yourselves a good night.
[59:08.090 --> 59:08.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Goodbye.
[59:08.890 --> 59:09.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: May have been listening off the hook.
[59:09.810 --> 59:09.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good night.
[59:10.090 --> 59:11.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: We had much worse.
[59:12.190 --> 59:13.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: But if they could, they would.
[59:14.110 --> 59:15.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: For me, we're bound for the best.
[59:15.750 --> 59:16.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Expect the worst.
[59:16.810 --> 59:19.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope that's understood.
[59:19.710 --> 59:21.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: But maybe we're bound for the best.
[01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:11.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi.
[01:00:11.800 --> 01:00:16.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm Walter Krocmo, inviting you to join me for a special series on our Americas.
[01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:17.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Honduras.
[01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:21.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: New state under construction, or old foundation with a new face.
[01:00:22.020 --> 01:00:30.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: A six-part report examining the increasing violence black and indigenous communities are experiencing as they struggle for their ancestral lands.
[01:00:30.380 --> 01:00:32.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: The crackdown on press freedom.
[01:00:32.060 --> 01:00:42.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: government complicity in environmental depredation and degradation, and other issues affecting the country's reconstruction a year and a half after the devastating hurricane, Mitch.
[01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:52.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's on Our Americas, starting Friday, June 2nd, between 5 and 6 p.m., here on WBAI, 99.5 FM, New York.