Off The Hook - 2000-08-15

[00:01.510 --> 00:04.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: We're the forerunners of Rhythm and Blues.
[00:04.690 --> 00:07.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: While producing great singers like R.H.
[00:07.330 --> 00:18.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: Harris, Johnny Taylor, and Sam Cooke, the performance will take place at the Friendship Baptist Church, 92 Herkimer Street in Brooklyn, on Friday, August 25th at 7 p.m.
[00:19.210 --> 00:25.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: For more information, call area code 718-398-1766.
[00:25.730 --> 00:29.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's 718-398-1766.
[00:35.430 --> 00:37.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI.
[00:37.750 --> 00:39.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: The time is 8 o'clock.
[00:39.430 --> 00:40.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:47.860 --> 00:52.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:53.360 --> 00:55.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:56.160 --> 00:58.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now I can't make a call
[01:03.550 --> 01:06.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: from Digglypuff for the best to expect the worst.
[01:06.910 --> 01:10.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: I hope that's understood from Digglypuff.
[02:37.780 --> 02:38.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: And good evening to everybody.
[02:38.860 --> 02:39.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:40.160 --> 02:41.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:42.120 --> 02:42.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: What happened to Isaac?
[02:43.460 --> 02:46.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: He was sitting over there a second ago, and now he's not there at all.
[02:46.920 --> 02:47.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, Bernie, yes, you're on the phone.
[02:48.160 --> 02:49.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm here in Philadelphia.
[02:49.200 --> 02:49.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you doing?
[02:49.900 --> 02:50.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good.
[02:50.480 --> 02:50.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Real good.
[02:51.100 --> 02:51.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's good.
[02:51.900 --> 02:53.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: What, are you taking a walk around the studio?
[02:54.020 --> 02:54.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no.
[02:54.520 --> 02:55.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're on the air now.
[02:55.400 --> 02:56.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I had to take readings.
[02:56.480 --> 02:56.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry.
[02:57.160 --> 02:57.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: You had to take readings.
[02:57.900 --> 03:00.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I neglected to when you came in.
[03:00.200 --> 03:00.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[03:01.140 --> 03:01.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[03:01.540 --> 03:03.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that a thermometer reading?
[03:03.280 --> 03:03.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, apparently.
[03:04.100 --> 03:04.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's got a fever.
[03:04.900 --> 03:05.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Among other things, yes.
[03:05.600 --> 03:06.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: What kind of thermometer are you using, Isaac?
[03:06.900 --> 03:07.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's not get into that.
[03:07.720 --> 03:08.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: A remote thermometer.
[03:08.800 --> 03:08.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[03:09.600 --> 03:16.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, Bernie, you're down there in Philadelphia where things are calm now, but now the craziness has transferred itself over to Los Angeles as we knew it would.
[03:17.260 --> 03:17.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Crazy.
[03:17.860 --> 03:21.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: And wow, the things that I'm seeing coming out of there are just unbelievable.
[03:22.340 --> 03:28.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if you guys were listening to the news earlier, but hopefully that clicking noise isn't coming.
[03:28.180 --> 03:29.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you hear that clicking noise in the headphones?
[03:30.280 --> 03:31.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, that's just me then.
[03:31.280 --> 03:31.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's you.
[03:31.720 --> 03:32.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's air.
[03:32.200 --> 03:32.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, good, good.
[03:34.720 --> 03:46.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, if you heard the news, you might have heard some things about media outlets being shut down and the free speech network being basically cut off from their broadcast last night from the Democratic Convention.
[03:46.680 --> 03:48.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: They were the ones with the satellite truck?
[03:48.700 --> 03:49.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: They had a satellite truck.
[03:49.660 --> 03:54.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, Joe Biafra is doing their reporting, and it's...
[03:54.720 --> 03:57.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: The large rolling bomb satellite truck that no one could get near.
[03:57.980 --> 04:00.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Isn't that weird how all of a sudden it's a bomb threat?
[04:00.480 --> 04:05.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: And yeah, the bomb threat is going to take just the amount of time that your broadcast would have taken to clear up.
[04:05.560 --> 04:11.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, come on, these are the tactics that they use in Eastern Europe, you know, and they're no more successful there than they will be here.
[04:11.980 --> 04:15.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I'll say one thing, it's spurring a lot of interest.
[04:15.020 --> 04:18.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I've never seen people looking at things so...
[04:18.240 --> 04:25.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, not the convention, not the infomercial that they got going out there, but what's actually happening, what people are talking about, the whole political process.
[04:25.720 --> 04:26.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's a healthy sign.
[04:26.980 --> 04:29.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I don't know, Bernie, what kinds of things have you been hearing?
[04:30.860 --> 04:36.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've been hearing that people are being hit by, well, shot at with various projectiles.
[04:37.580 --> 04:44.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, do you remember last November when we did the broadcast with Amy at WTO in Seattle?
[04:44.700 --> 04:48.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: How shocking it was that rubber bullets were being fired at people.
[04:48.300 --> 04:50.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: And now, it's just a matter of course.
[04:50.620 --> 04:52.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they fired rubber bullets into the crowd.
[04:52.820 --> 04:53.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was no big deal.
[04:53.620 --> 04:54.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Everybody just accepts that now.
[04:55.260 --> 04:57.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's really kind of nice.
[04:57.400 --> 04:58.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: There were a variety of projectiles this time.
[04:58.880 --> 04:59.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they had beanbags.
[05:00.060 --> 05:00.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: The beanbags, yeah.
[05:00.780 --> 05:02.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: And these aren't like the ones you play games with.
[05:02.740 --> 05:07.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: These things, like, cause you, like, blood, they hurt badly, like bad bruises or anything.
[05:07.940 --> 05:10.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, it's not like having a Teletubby thrown at you or something like that.
[05:10.680 --> 05:13.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's really meant to hurt, and they do hurt.
[05:14.520 --> 05:17.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I suggest people keep listening for more information.
[05:18.140 --> 05:23.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Also, go to the indie media sites that are around the country and hear firsthand what's going on out there.
[05:23.680 --> 05:26.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did the LAPD roll out the big foam generator thing they got?
[05:26.640 --> 05:27.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, what's that?
[05:27.900 --> 05:29.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, it's actually pretty neat.
[05:29.560 --> 05:36.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a small trailer, which takes dishwasher or, I think it's laundry foam.
[05:36.220 --> 05:39.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it just billows this enormous amount of foam into a crowd.
[05:40.720 --> 05:42.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what happens to the crowd?
[05:42.280 --> 05:45.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they get kind of, like, bogged down in four or five feet of foam.
[05:46.660 --> 05:48.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, they can't accuse them of not having had a bathroom.
[05:48.720 --> 05:50.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Exactly, you know, it cleans them up.
[05:50.740 --> 05:51.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[05:51.700 --> 05:52.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: What happens if somebody falls down?
[05:53.120 --> 05:54.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's not that sticky foam stuff.
[05:54.420 --> 05:58.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, no, it's basically like laundry suds, but a lot of them.
[05:58.640 --> 06:02.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: So they're effectively telling the protesters, take a bath.
[06:03.100 --> 06:03.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[06:04.500 --> 06:04.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, boy.
[06:05.160 --> 06:07.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I'm sure we'll see all kinds of interesting things.
[06:07.720 --> 06:11.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, of course, if anything happens out there, we may break in to tell you what's going on.
[06:13.360 --> 06:14.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie, what's the latest with Terrence?
[06:14.900 --> 06:16.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: We did a show last week.
[06:16.740 --> 06:21.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Terrence is decompressing in an undisclosed mountain location.
[06:21.260 --> 06:21.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good, good.
[06:21.900 --> 06:23.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which he needs to be.
[06:23.180 --> 06:27.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, when you're in a very close space, I understand he was in a five-by-eight cell for about a week.
[06:28.400 --> 06:34.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: You need to counteract that right afterwards by getting into wide-open spaces to sort of balance out your karma sort of thing.
[06:34.740 --> 06:34.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[06:34.900 --> 06:38.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not your karma, but your chakras have got to be balanced out.
[06:38.200 --> 06:42.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where we left it last week, you were at the prison or about to go to the prison to try and get him out.
[06:42.300 --> 06:42.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's right.
[06:42.780 --> 06:45.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: The show just ended, and there was a happy ending right after the show.
[06:45.960 --> 06:51.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: About half an hour later, Terrence was finally released to his mother.
[06:51.580 --> 06:55.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: They'd only let one person actually into the room where he's released from.
[06:55.420 --> 06:59.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: But they came walking out, and he got a lot of long hugs.
[06:59.580 --> 07:03.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: And he really seemed kind of shell-shocked from the whole thing.
[07:03.340 --> 07:08.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, as anyone would be locked up in these conditions for a week.
[07:08.200 --> 07:11.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: He's very quiet and not like Terrence.
[07:11.340 --> 07:17.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I talked to him on the phone that night, and he's usually very conversational.
[07:17.120 --> 07:19.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: He just seemed very, you know, quiet, like he said.
[07:19.820 --> 07:20.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was frightening.
[07:20.680 --> 07:24.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I talked to him again a couple of days later, and I think he's back to his old self.
[07:24.240 --> 07:26.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: But he definitely needed to get away.
[07:26.840 --> 07:36.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: There was one positive thing that happened this week, and that was there was actually a pretty accurate and positive story, front-page story, on the Philadelphia Inquirer.
[07:36.580 --> 07:37.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: That was amazing.
[07:37.420 --> 07:38.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: I saw the story on the web.
[07:38.640 --> 07:42.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: I haven't seen the actual paper version yet, but page one, that's unbelievable.
[07:42.280 --> 07:47.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a good example of how our listeners can get involved in media.
[07:47.620 --> 07:50.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody complains, the media, they inaccurately report things.
[07:50.640 --> 07:58.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: I contacted that reporter last week after reading another story she'd written by the protesters, and there were some inaccuracies in her article and so forth.
[07:58.140 --> 08:05.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I pointed them out to her, and I said, listen, I can get you some facts about this story, which you can verify on your own, but, you know, give this a chance.
[08:05.440 --> 08:07.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, don't just report what police are saying.
[08:08.500 --> 08:09.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I worked with her.
[08:09.480 --> 08:10.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: We had several conversations.
[08:10.940 --> 08:23.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: I sent her several emails, gave her contact names, and so I think she spoke with you, some people, former employers of parents, that sort of thing, visited Terrence's home, interviewed him, his mother, his father, all that.
[08:23.320 --> 08:24.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a wonderful article.
[08:25.640 --> 08:26.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, she did a very good job.
[08:26.760 --> 08:31.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: And people can get involved with media by acting as a source.
[08:32.780 --> 08:34.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what happened in this case.
[08:34.460 --> 08:36.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, I'm not taking credit for the article.
[08:36.160 --> 08:37.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just anybody can do this.
[08:37.280 --> 08:39.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't take a lot of work.
[08:39.380 --> 08:41.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you should take credit, because I don't think it would have happened without you.
[08:42.140 --> 08:45.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it might have happened, but it wouldn't have happened so positively, maybe.
[08:45.040 --> 08:48.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: They just would have quoted the DA's office or something, and that would have been it.
[08:49.020 --> 08:56.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't take a lot of work to actually contact a reporter who you know has reported similar stories, and give them useful information.
[08:57.040 --> 08:58.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: No problem with them checking it out.
[08:58.720 --> 09:01.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Say, hey, check out, here's some sources, you can check this out any way you want to.
[09:02.140 --> 09:08.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a whole lot better than not trying at all, which I know a lot of people feel like not trying at all, but you have to expend the effort.
[09:10.560 --> 09:18.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, people, if you know anything about a story that is being reported on, contact reporters and, you know, be a helpful source.
[09:18.840 --> 09:19.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[09:19.800 --> 09:21.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Those contacts will last, too.
[09:22.880 --> 09:29.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've done similar things, and reporters have just, like, come out of the woodwork and asked a question, like, hey, have you heard about this?
[09:29.620 --> 09:30.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you think?
[09:30.800 --> 09:33.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they pass your name around, too, like baseball cards.
[09:33.180 --> 09:33.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, well...
[09:33.540 --> 09:35.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: This guy knows about this.
[09:35.260 --> 09:35.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[09:36.080 --> 09:36.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it works.
[09:36.740 --> 09:37.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: I can call some reporters all the time.
[09:38.180 --> 09:42.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, if you like to have low-volume email, don't do this.
[09:42.860 --> 09:43.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[09:44.020 --> 09:45.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: These reporters are hungry for information.
[09:45.720 --> 09:46.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yes.
[09:46.940 --> 09:47.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anywhere they can go.
[09:47.620 --> 09:52.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: They really are at a bereft of accurate sources.
[09:52.360 --> 09:53.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I've got to tell you something, though.
[09:54.780 --> 09:59.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've dealt with reporters that have written good stories, but they don't always stay good reporters.
[09:59.880 --> 10:02.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sometimes they start writing bad stories.
[10:02.360 --> 10:03.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I don't mean just stories that I disagree with.
[10:03.880 --> 10:06.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean stories where they don't check the facts, or they don't do their job.
[10:06.640 --> 10:12.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I have to wonder, you know, how could they be good one day, and then bad the next, or just turn bad, period?
[10:12.440 --> 10:15.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: They are given some pretty unreasonable deadlines sometimes.
[10:15.380 --> 10:16.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that has a lot to do with it.
[10:16.920 --> 10:18.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: But you've got to write hurt on these reporters.
[10:18.660 --> 10:21.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, they just turn all cynical, and lose all their respect, and don't care anymore.
[10:21.920 --> 10:22.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: That could also happen.
[10:22.520 --> 10:27.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's our job to social engineer them, and to make them see the facts.
[10:28.020 --> 10:31.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, anybody listening to this show can do just what I did.
[10:31.480 --> 10:34.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: It took them like an hour of my time altogether, maybe.
[10:34.560 --> 10:34.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[10:35.200 --> 10:41.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's also important, though, if you do this, that you know the facts, too, because if you start spreading false facts around, that tends to make things worse.
[10:41.580 --> 10:44.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you don't want to destroy your credibility by saying something that's not true.
[10:44.300 --> 10:44.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[10:44.640 --> 10:46.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that would be very counterproductive.
[10:48.020 --> 10:48.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[10:48.600 --> 11:04.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, good job there, and hopefully that picture of Terrence on the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer would wake a lot of people up as to why locking somebody like that away for a $500,000 bail for talking on a cell phone and walking down the street is kind of wrong.
[11:04.760 --> 11:05.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: But we'll see what happens.
[11:06.000 --> 11:08.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, the trial is coming up in September.
[11:08.340 --> 11:12.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if it ever gets to the trial stage, but we'll be telling people what's going on with that.
[11:12.640 --> 11:16.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Terrence, in case you don't know it, is our layout person for 2600.
[11:16.160 --> 11:20.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, this will probably make our issue a little bit late because he's recuperating up there in the mountains somewhere.
[11:20.820 --> 11:22.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's always an excuse with you.
[11:22.000 --> 11:22.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's always an excuse.
[11:22.580 --> 11:27.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we had H2K as the excuse, but now this is a better excuse, so we'll use this one.
[11:29.840 --> 11:34.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, another thing I wanted to tell people to do, we were talking about the Democratic Convention out in Los Angeles.
[11:35.120 --> 11:35.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Walter's here.
[11:35.840 --> 11:36.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: You escaped...
[11:36.920 --> 11:38.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just barely made it out before...
[11:38.800 --> 11:40.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hang on, you've got to talk into a microphone.
[11:40.200 --> 11:40.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the way radio works.
[11:40.940 --> 11:41.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: There you go.
[11:41.440 --> 11:43.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just barely escaped before the convention started.
[11:43.880 --> 11:44.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[11:44.160 --> 11:45.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you escaped to get here?
[11:45.740 --> 11:45.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yep.
[11:46.180 --> 11:46.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, wow.
[11:46.680 --> 11:48.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you hear all the things that are going on out there?
[11:48.760 --> 11:49.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I haven't heard anything.
[11:49.760 --> 11:50.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's pretty unbelievable.
[11:51.600 --> 11:52.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll catch you up after the show.
[11:52.960 --> 12:04.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: But basically, one thing that I really want to be able to see is what Jello is working on now, the Free Speech Network, which is broadcasting all kinds of alternative things, kind of like the WBAI of TV.
[12:04.900 --> 12:11.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: But you can't get it because it's one of these satellite networks and your cable company has to agree to carry it.
[12:11.720 --> 12:12.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Unless you have your own dish.
[12:12.620 --> 12:13.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, get your own dish.
[12:13.440 --> 12:15.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, I do have my own dish, but I get direct TV.
[12:15.940 --> 12:16.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't get dish network.
[12:16.620 --> 12:17.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Nah, it's not a dish.
[12:17.660 --> 12:20.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, you can get one of the 25-foot dishes, I guess.
[12:20.660 --> 12:20.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: There you go.
[12:20.980 --> 12:23.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, those are kind of hard to, you know, maneuver around.
[12:24.000 --> 12:24.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: But here's the thing.
[12:24.880 --> 12:26.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you have dish network, you can get it.
[12:26.300 --> 12:27.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know what channel it's on.
[12:27.480 --> 12:28.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Free Speech Network.
[12:28.380 --> 12:29.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: DirecTV does not get it.
[12:29.720 --> 12:36.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: So what I want everybody to do is call DirecTV and get them to carry the station because that way you can start seeing interesting things.
[12:36.880 --> 12:40.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: And there's nothing wrong, even if you don't agree with what you see, there's nothing wrong with seeing different views.
[12:41.340 --> 12:43.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, God knows we don't need more of the same.
[12:43.880 --> 12:49.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if you look, if you look at all the channels that are being added on TV these days, they're usually more of the same.
[12:49.180 --> 12:52.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, another shop at home, you know, another commercial station of some sort.
[12:53.280 --> 12:56.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, and of course, call your cable company too, which probably is Time Warner.
[12:57.120 --> 12:59.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any cable companies that carry that channel?
[12:59.200 --> 12:59.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[13:00.020 --> 13:08.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I can't imagine why they would because that channel basically does nothing but, you know, show how corrupt the companies that own the cable systems are.
[13:08.420 --> 13:12.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the cable systems don't have unlimited channels to dole out either.
[13:12.640 --> 13:13.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but...
[13:13.120 --> 13:14.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: There could be a bandwidth limitation.
[13:14.420 --> 13:18.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, I mean, that doesn't mean you shouldn't call your cable company and demand your free speech network.
[13:18.880 --> 13:21.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess something like six shop-at-home channels, all right?
[13:21.600 --> 13:29.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to isolate or alienate the shop-at-home contingent out there because we all know they're a very powerful lobby.
[13:29.220 --> 13:30.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they pay the cable operators.
[13:30.740 --> 13:31.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's basically it.
[13:31.820 --> 13:32.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that must be it.
[13:33.000 --> 13:38.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I can't imagine why somebody would want to watch Home Shopping Network 2 as opposed to Home Shopping Network 1 or Value Vision.
[13:38.640 --> 13:40.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: One of them has One of them has The Coin Show.
[13:40.340 --> 13:41.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: The other one has Computer of the Day.
[13:42.140 --> 13:45.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: The third one has Tell me you actually watch these channels.
[13:45.320 --> 13:46.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I don't even have cable.
[13:46.420 --> 13:47.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: I like The Knife Show.
[13:47.360 --> 13:47.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good one.
[13:47.700 --> 13:48.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, The Knife Show is pretty good.
[13:48.760 --> 13:52.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was out at someone's house and they had six roppiers.
[13:52.560 --> 13:53.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm in over my head here.
[13:54.400 --> 14:05.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: My point is it just would be really good, you know, to, for instance, Cable Vision, our local channel, our local cable network, just announced they're going to be adding another religious station, which, you know, religion is all fun and games.
[14:05.640 --> 14:05.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wonderful.
[14:05.940 --> 14:07.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wonderful, but come on.
[14:07.320 --> 14:08.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, we want some diversity.
[14:08.620 --> 14:10.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: You don't want the same thing over and over and over again.
[14:10.680 --> 14:13.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think there's plenty of shopping, there's plenty of religion, there's plenty of commercial TV.
[14:14.160 --> 14:15.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's get some alternatives.
[14:15.120 --> 14:16.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's only one religion channel.
[14:16.520 --> 14:16.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, please.
[14:17.180 --> 14:17.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: First of all...
[14:17.880 --> 14:18.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which religion was it?
[14:18.900 --> 14:19.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Telecare, 25.
[14:20.380 --> 14:20.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: It used to be.
[14:20.860 --> 14:26.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's just the local one, but there's also all kinds of other religious programs that are on all the time and various other channels.
[14:26.440 --> 14:29.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mr. Variety is having a problem with religious programming.
[14:29.420 --> 14:30.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I have no trouble with religious programming.
[14:30.820 --> 14:33.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just have trouble with it being forced down my throat all the time.
[14:33.460 --> 14:34.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: How is it forced down your throat?
[14:34.300 --> 14:35.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because it's always on.
[14:35.280 --> 14:36.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's always on TV.
[14:36.260 --> 14:37.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Look, do this.
[14:37.400 --> 14:39.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: On Sunday morning, turn on the TV set, right?
[14:39.500 --> 14:43.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: And see how many anarchist or, you know, atheistic programs you can find on the air.
[14:44.020 --> 14:50.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: You won't find any, because that's not a valid view in the eyes of, you know, the mainstream.
[14:50.080 --> 14:50.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Imagine that.
[14:50.840 --> 14:52.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: A mass being broadcast on Sunday morning.
[14:53.100 --> 14:53.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Every single channel.
[14:54.120 --> 14:54.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Every single channel.
[14:55.100 --> 14:55.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Every single channel.
[14:55.580 --> 14:56.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, every single channel.
[14:56.160 --> 14:57.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not every single channel.
[14:57.340 --> 14:59.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can go to WABC and watch like Katie Cork.
[15:00.040 --> 15:02.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not saying take religion off TV.
[15:02.700 --> 15:07.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm saying let's add something else in addition to religion, in addition to shopping, in addition to commercial TV.
[15:07.660 --> 15:08.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's all I'm saying.
[15:08.420 --> 15:08.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[15:08.800 --> 15:11.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you're looking at co-opting other programming.
[15:11.420 --> 15:13.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I'm looking at adding something else.
[15:13.760 --> 15:14.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[15:14.020 --> 15:14.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[15:14.180 --> 15:17.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, you always have 50 more religious channels that want to be added.
[15:17.840 --> 15:21.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then, yeah, you'll say that, oh, you're preventing these 50 religious stations from being...
[15:21.640 --> 15:25.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I'm sure the religious broadcaster out there that wants the frequency we're talking on right now.
[15:25.720 --> 15:27.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: But let's do something different instead.
[15:27.700 --> 15:29.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think it'll be of more value.
[15:29.240 --> 15:31.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what I'm saying as far as free speech network.
[15:31.040 --> 15:33.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I would tend to think the market should decide this.
[15:33.300 --> 15:35.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I think the people should decide this.
[15:35.120 --> 15:38.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: So the people out there should be calling their cable companies, calling their satellite companies...
[15:38.920 --> 15:39.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Exactly.
[15:39.060 --> 15:39.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: ...and demanding.
[15:40.040 --> 15:40.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Exactly.
[15:40.480 --> 15:41.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Demanding free speech network.
[15:42.100 --> 15:42.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the market.
[15:42.760 --> 15:43.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[15:43.380 --> 15:43.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: That is the market.
[15:44.100 --> 15:46.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because you do have the right to demand this.
[15:46.440 --> 15:49.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, who is Time Warner to say, no, you will not see this program?
[15:49.540 --> 15:51.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, they can do that.
[16:01.040 --> 16:04.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if they don't meet those demands, you're going to bring your business elsewhere.
[16:04.700 --> 16:06.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you can't bring it elsewhere.
[16:06.140 --> 16:07.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's no elsewhere to bring it.
[16:07.140 --> 16:08.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: I only have one cable company.
[16:08.620 --> 16:09.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I only have one cable company, though.
[16:09.820 --> 16:11.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: I only have one satellite company that I can use.
[16:11.820 --> 16:13.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but there's a tree blocking for the other satellite.
[16:14.180 --> 16:15.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's talk about Verizon.
[16:15.600 --> 16:15.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sorry?
[16:16.200 --> 16:17.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's talk about Verizon.
[16:17.100 --> 16:17.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, let's get to Verizon.
[16:18.200 --> 16:18.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Verizon, yes, Verizon.
[16:18.600 --> 16:20.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speaking of freedom of choice, okay.
[16:20.760 --> 16:21.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: The strike continues.
[16:22.600 --> 16:32.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's all kinds of things going on out there as far as striking people and conflicts and contract offers and renege promises.
[16:32.560 --> 16:33.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, Bernie...
[16:33.200 --> 16:34.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have a strike-related issue.
[16:34.300 --> 16:36.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, you have something that I think is even more interesting than that.
[16:36.620 --> 16:38.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: I personally was affected by this today.
[16:38.360 --> 16:39.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're personally affected, okay.
[16:39.620 --> 16:41.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I called my carrier.
[16:41.240 --> 16:46.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a SEALAC, Competitive Local Exchange Carrier here, who resells some of the Atlantic services to us.
[16:47.100 --> 16:50.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I called our SEALAC to request a service change order.
[16:50.620 --> 16:51.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Correction, Bernie.
[16:51.880 --> 16:53.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is Bell Atlantic of which you speak.
[16:53.600 --> 16:54.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, Verizon.
[16:54.520 --> 16:54.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[16:55.140 --> 16:56.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: It didn't make any sense to me.
[16:56.500 --> 16:57.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know that name.
[16:57.420 --> 16:58.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I almost said Bell, Pennsylvania.
[16:58.800 --> 16:59.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm dating myself.
[16:59.500 --> 16:59.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[17:00.440 --> 17:00.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Way back.
[17:01.040 --> 17:07.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: In any case, I called my SEALAC to have them put in a change order to Verizon.
[17:08.600 --> 17:13.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they did so and called me back and said, hey, they actually do this via the web now.
[17:14.200 --> 17:14.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Verizon.com.
[17:14.980 --> 17:17.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can actually put in service orders that way.
[17:17.360 --> 17:19.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, to add a line or a service, whatever.
[17:20.640 --> 17:35.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, as a result of this work stoppage, as they're calling it, if you go to Verizon.com and put in a service order request, it always assigns a date when you can expect the service to be performed.
[17:35.880 --> 17:43.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, okay, they'll show up at your house on, you know, August 16th or whatever.
[17:43.040 --> 17:47.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the date that comes up now is December 30th, 2000.
[17:47.520 --> 17:47.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, dear.
[17:48.740 --> 17:51.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, at least they're being realistic now, you know.
[17:54.140 --> 17:55.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, with the typical phone...
[17:55.680 --> 18:01.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Either they know something about this strike that we don't, or they are fudging their stats.
[18:01.700 --> 18:04.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think they know something about their performance that we do.
[18:04.160 --> 18:04.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was about to get to that.
[18:04.960 --> 18:08.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, with the normal phone company time dilation, that would be somewhere in 2003.
[18:10.120 --> 18:14.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're trying to get DSL line installed, and you will see snow on the ground before it arrives.
[18:14.820 --> 18:16.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can try this out yourself.
[18:16.480 --> 18:22.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: You go to Verizon.com and then add to, like, add a service, or like to add, like, call waiting to your line or something.
[18:23.340 --> 18:24.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to actually request.
[18:24.720 --> 18:27.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can get all the way to the end and then cancel it.
[18:27.280 --> 18:33.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: But when you get to the very last part, it'll come up with this date when you can expect your service to be turned on or changed or whatever.
[18:33.360 --> 18:34.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: December 30th, 2000.
[18:35.320 --> 18:35.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[18:35.740 --> 18:38.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, would it be December 30th or December 31st tomorrow?
[18:38.740 --> 18:39.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know what?
[18:39.140 --> 18:39.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's strange.
[18:39.760 --> 18:41.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: You'd think it would be the 31st or the 30th.
[18:41.280 --> 18:44.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's funny, because first, our CELAC told me it said December 7th.
[18:45.240 --> 18:49.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, so her, you know, when she did it, it said December 7th, which is Pearl Harbor Day.
[18:49.440 --> 18:52.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why, you know, if there's some, you know, who knows.
[18:52.440 --> 18:53.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Interesting choice.
[18:53.140 --> 18:55.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: In any case, I, Tora, Tora, Tora.
[18:56.400 --> 18:58.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I did it myself, and it came up December 30th.
[18:58.960 --> 19:01.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: So they're stretching the dates out even further.
[19:02.280 --> 19:06.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, that's something to look forward to with our brand new phone company.
[19:07.060 --> 19:08.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: I knew it was going to be fun.
[19:08.120 --> 19:09.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just didn't know it would be this much fun.
[19:09.460 --> 19:13.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: On strike the first week, and taking seven months, six months?
[19:13.860 --> 19:16.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was walking along the street here, and there were several strikers outside of one of the buildings.
[19:17.060 --> 19:20.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I talked with some linemen, and, you know, those sorts of guys.
[19:21.080 --> 19:23.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, they weren't too up on the issues.
[19:23.700 --> 19:24.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was surprised.
[19:24.300 --> 19:25.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to find out exactly what it was.
[19:26.040 --> 19:27.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: They said, well, talk to our shop steward.
[19:27.560 --> 19:28.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I want to talk to you guys.
[19:28.660 --> 19:29.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why are you striking?
[19:30.020 --> 19:31.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know what that's about.
[19:31.840 --> 19:31.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[19:32.640 --> 19:37.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: We finally pointed verizonreallysucks.com to their union site.
[19:37.560 --> 19:48.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: So now people going to that site can actually read something about Verizon instead of being pointed to us, which actually was convenient to a lot of people whose site, our site was blocked in their software.
[19:48.440 --> 19:52.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: They could look at our site by going to verizonreallysucks.com.
[19:52.100 --> 19:53.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that's not what it's for.
[19:53.940 --> 19:56.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or it's for Verizon-related issues.
[19:56.240 --> 20:01.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: This person who wrote in took a clue from last week's radio show and registered iloveverizon.com.
[20:02.220 --> 20:03.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a real site.
[20:03.580 --> 20:04.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's now live.
[20:04.280 --> 20:06.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: It has a message board for all those people that just love Verizon.
[20:07.820 --> 20:09.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: I can't wait to get my cease and desist letter.
[20:10.060 --> 20:11.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: My grandchildren will be so proud.
[20:12.100 --> 20:12.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Signed, David.
[20:12.560 --> 20:14.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's pretty inspirational.
[20:14.200 --> 20:15.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: And a lot of people have been doing things like that.
[20:15.820 --> 20:24.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, that's in response to the lawsuit threat against us for registering Verizon really sucks, because all the people will be confused that is really a Verizon site.
[20:24.540 --> 20:24.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's funny.
[20:25.020 --> 20:29.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: The lawyers didn't register positive-sounding domain names, did they?
[20:29.640 --> 20:30.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[20:30.680 --> 20:32.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: They skipped right over those.
[20:33.360 --> 20:33.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[20:34.360 --> 20:38.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speaking of lawsuits, we don't have a verdict yet in the DCSS case.
[20:38.260 --> 20:39.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: We are still waiting for the verdict.
[20:39.720 --> 20:41.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Could happen at any time.
[20:41.360 --> 20:43.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: We expect it sometime this week, yes.
[20:43.520 --> 20:47.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: So keep checking the website, www.2600.com.
[20:47.200 --> 20:49.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: And as soon as we know, you'll know.
[20:49.400 --> 20:52.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we don't know what's going to happen at all.
[20:52.180 --> 20:57.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is the lawsuit having to do with the DVD encryption software, the ECSS.
[20:57.980 --> 20:59.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or decryption software.
[20:59.540 --> 20:59.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[21:01.880 --> 21:09.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to take some phone calls, 212-209-2900, because we haven't taken phone calls as much as we should have in the last few weeks.
[21:09.080 --> 21:12.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: So we'll try to do that for the majority of the remaining time.
[21:12.900 --> 21:16.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: So let's fill up those phone lines, and we'll take some calls.
[21:17.720 --> 21:20.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's read a couple of bits of mail.
[21:21.420 --> 21:22.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, listener mail, which is always fun.
[21:23.300 --> 21:23.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you off the hook?
[21:23.900 --> 21:26.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm an electrical engineer, and I subscribe to several trade journals.
[21:26.760 --> 21:38.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: When they call, like they just did, to renew my free subscription, quite often they ask for a piece of information to verify that they did indeed speak to me, such as month and date of birth, city you were born in, mother's maiden name, etc.
[21:38.560 --> 21:41.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Each piece by itself doesn't tell much.
[21:41.640 --> 21:48.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: But all put together, it could be used to track you down when they start installing the government-mandated brain implants, Isaac.
[21:51.620 --> 21:59.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: I always tell them January 1st, born in Alabama, etc., and so far they have not noticed that I'm giving different information because my subscriptions are still coming in.
[21:59.740 --> 22:00.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Signed, Steve.
[22:00.180 --> 22:01.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's very true.
[22:01.320 --> 22:10.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: In fact, actually, I have a problem because I was trying to fix one of my phone lines while I was driving around, and they asked for the last four digits of my Social Security number.
[22:10.780 --> 22:14.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: And on those rare occasions where I give them any number at all, it's always a fake number.
[22:14.960 --> 22:18.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I didn't know what my Social Security number was that I gave them.
[22:18.200 --> 22:19.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have written down someplace.
[22:19.680 --> 22:21.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but different ones for everybody.
[22:21.700 --> 22:25.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so here I am driving around, my phone is broken, I'm trying to get it fixed, and I can't.
[22:26.020 --> 22:31.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: I can't even prove that it's me, and now they think I stole the phone because I don't know my own Social Security number.
[22:31.440 --> 22:36.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, actually, I find that a lot more comforting than them saying, oh, well, don't worry about it and letting you continue to talk.
[22:36.320 --> 22:39.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you were talking to the person I was talking to, you would not find it comforting.
[22:39.560 --> 22:45.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I would rather them disable my phone if I can't properly identify myself than to allow someone to continue to use it.
[22:45.440 --> 22:47.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: They were dim as a 20-watt bulb.
[22:47.140 --> 22:47.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[22:47.520 --> 22:50.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think they could have reported it if they were able to.
[22:51.840 --> 22:52.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[22:53.320 --> 22:54.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[22:55.880 --> 23:05.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: A 16-year-old accused of paralyzing major websites, including those of CNN, Yahoo, and Amazon.com, has pleaded innocent to charges that could land him in a teen detention center for two years.
[23:05.900 --> 23:14.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: The Montreal high school student, who calls himself Mafia Boy on the Internet, had already faced two mischief charges after CNN's website was crippled in February.
[23:14.600 --> 23:18.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: He now faces 60 new charges of hacking and mischief.
[23:18.340 --> 23:19.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's 66-0?
[23:20.260 --> 23:21.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: 6-0, yes.
[23:21.200 --> 23:22.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: 60 new charges.
[23:22.300 --> 23:23.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: 60 new charges, yes.
[23:23.360 --> 23:25.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess they'll run these sentences consecutively?
[23:26.240 --> 23:28.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, actually, Canadian law is a little bit more sane.
[23:28.500 --> 23:32.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: The maximum time he can get is two years in a youth detention center.
[23:32.260 --> 23:33.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Only because he's a juvenile.
[23:33.400 --> 23:34.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: What if he were two years older?
[23:34.400 --> 23:35.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: That I'm not sure about.
[23:35.200 --> 23:38.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I still think their law is a little more sane as far as sentencing.
[23:39.060 --> 23:43.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think they're building prisons everywhere in Canada, although I have heard some disturbing things about what's going on up there as well.
[23:44.360 --> 23:49.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Police described the boy who was too young to be identified under Canadian law as bright but not a computer genius.
[23:49.400 --> 23:54.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: He sat in the courtroom yesterday with a blank look on his face while his attorney entered the pleas.
[23:54.180 --> 23:56.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, this was a couple of weeks ago, August 4th.
[23:56.240 --> 23:59.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: So he's sitting there with a blank look on his face but everyone seems to think he's bright.
[23:59.560 --> 24:00.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: But not a genius.
[24:00.740 --> 24:01.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: But not a genius.
[24:01.620 --> 24:01.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[24:02.000 --> 24:03.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: You need a bright blank look on his face.
[24:03.360 --> 24:04.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Blank looks, yeah.
[24:04.280 --> 24:05.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: People have blank looks all the time.
[24:06.580 --> 24:10.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: The boy is accused of bombarding the sites with thousands of simultaneous messages, crippling them.
[24:10.760 --> 24:16.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Prosecutors allege that he broke into several computers, mostly at American universities, and used them to launch the attack against the websites.
[24:16.780 --> 24:21.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: The attack's flooded sites with so much traffic that legitimate customers were unable to get through.
[24:22.360 --> 24:28.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Police investigators said he boasted in Internet chat rooms about the attacks and was tracked through traces he left of his computer activity.
[24:29.360 --> 24:32.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: His attorney said the boy understands the serious nature of the charges.
[24:32.360 --> 24:33.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not a happy moment in his life.
[24:33.820 --> 24:36.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's just anxious that this whole thing be behind him.
[24:36.440 --> 24:39.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: His next scheduled court appearance is September 28th, where a trial date will be set.
[24:40.540 --> 24:43.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: But what do you think is a good sentence if he is guilty?
[24:43.300 --> 24:46.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I find that figure that they gave a little interesting.
[24:46.680 --> 24:48.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thousands of Internet messages.
[24:49.160 --> 24:52.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: A major web server for, like, CNN.com can't handle thousands?
[24:53.280 --> 24:56.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's not, you know, what denial of service attack really is.
[24:56.460 --> 24:57.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not little messages.
[24:57.580 --> 24:58.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, you know...
[24:58.320 --> 24:58.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, yes, yes.
[24:58.740 --> 25:00.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Many, many thousands of...
[25:00.000 --> 25:01.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it gives the impression that...
[25:01.660 --> 25:01.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[25:02.240 --> 25:03.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's written by people...
[25:03.300 --> 25:04.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sorry, I'm nitpicking.
[25:04.220 --> 25:04.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: ...I don't know what they're talking about.
[25:04.680 --> 25:11.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: But as far as a sentence, if the guy's guilty of bringing Yahoo to its knees and, you know, CNN and all these major sites...
[25:11.480 --> 25:12.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: I honestly don't know.
[25:12.500 --> 25:13.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's for the Canadian courts to decide.
[25:14.260 --> 25:15.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Community service, I say.
[25:16.380 --> 25:17.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Community service?
[25:17.300 --> 25:17.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[25:17.580 --> 25:18.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: What kind of community service?
[25:18.580 --> 25:19.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, something...
[25:19.540 --> 25:23.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe teaching kids how to use computers ethically or something, you know?
[25:23.300 --> 25:23.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[25:24.160 --> 25:29.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just, you know, something that's more productive to society than locking somebody in a cage.
[25:29.440 --> 25:30.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have an idea.
[25:30.080 --> 25:30.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: I like that.
[25:30.500 --> 25:31.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, and I have a better idea, though.
[25:32.080 --> 25:36.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about you stick him on a mule train, all right?
[25:36.600 --> 25:43.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you stick him in a tent for all winter and then put him on a mule train and he picks up trash inside of a road for a year, right?
[25:43.460 --> 25:43.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[25:43.640 --> 25:44.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: What do you think about that?
[25:44.380 --> 25:45.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think he can learn a lot more.
[25:46.120 --> 25:46.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Try that.
[25:46.140 --> 25:46.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: You do that down here.
[25:46.780 --> 25:47.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's American justice.
[25:47.760 --> 25:49.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have we heard from that individual, by the way?
[25:49.840 --> 25:51.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've gotten a couple of letters from him, actually, yeah.
[25:51.960 --> 25:52.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is he doing all right?
[25:53.000 --> 25:53.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's surviving.
[25:53.980 --> 25:54.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's surviving.
[25:55.760 --> 25:59.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: He's due to be possibly off this wagon train next month, isn't he?
[25:59.540 --> 26:00.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope so.
[26:00.480 --> 26:02.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: This has been all year, since the beginning of the year, correct?
[26:03.060 --> 26:03.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[26:03.400 --> 26:07.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think he's due to show up in court again and then they decide what they want to do with him at that point.
[26:07.160 --> 26:10.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Does he have to ride the mule to court or are they going to arrange other transportation?
[26:10.840 --> 26:11.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not funny, you know.
[26:11.800 --> 26:13.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a serious matter.
[26:13.640 --> 26:14.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Joking with people's lives here.
[26:14.980 --> 26:17.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you really have no suggestions?
[26:17.400 --> 26:18.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I like Bernie's suggestions.
[26:18.520 --> 26:19.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: You like community service.
[26:19.500 --> 26:20.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Community service.
[26:20.180 --> 26:20.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[26:20.980 --> 26:21.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: That seems okay.
[26:21.480 --> 26:22.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: And he may actually find that he enjoys it.
[26:23.020 --> 26:23.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[26:24.200 --> 26:24.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Makes sense.
[26:24.860 --> 26:25.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[26:25.160 --> 26:26.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[26:26.880 --> 26:28.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's go over to the phones.
[26:29.080 --> 26:31.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see what we've been missing in the last few weeks.
[26:32.900 --> 26:33.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[26:33.640 --> 26:34.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[26:35.000 --> 26:35.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Emmanuel.
[26:35.800 --> 26:36.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you doing?
[26:36.160 --> 26:36.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Isaac.
[26:36.820 --> 26:37.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's Tommy Pickles.
[26:37.840 --> 26:38.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you doing, sir?
[26:38.680 --> 26:39.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, also.
[26:39.900 --> 26:40.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[26:40.300 --> 26:41.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not disregarding you.
[26:42.480 --> 26:45.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Howdy to you out there in Pennsylvania.
[26:45.700 --> 26:46.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: So what's on your mind?
[26:47.160 --> 26:52.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: So first thing, I've got to say I'm disappointed because GH Icon didn't happen this year, Isaac.
[26:52.920 --> 26:53.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, it did.
[26:53.940 --> 26:57.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Slightly after DEFCON when I returned.
[26:57.220 --> 26:57.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, see.
[26:57.520 --> 26:59.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was probably a single thing again.
[26:59.940 --> 27:04.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I will have to post the photos for GH Icon 2 in the near future.
[27:05.240 --> 27:10.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: And second, if any of the southern people are listening, you know, Freak Nick's supposed to go on in November.
[27:11.160 --> 27:11.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: 4.0.
[27:11.980 --> 27:14.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: November 3rd, yeah, Freak Nick 4.0.
[27:14.340 --> 27:19.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: But for some reason, Rattle's been out on the run somewhere on vacation.
[27:20.340 --> 27:22.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he's the only one who has access to the website.
[27:23.000 --> 27:24.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, November, you know, as we've still got some time.
[27:25.260 --> 27:31.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, hopefully everyone keeps that on their mind so that we could all travel down and have a good 2,600 party down there.
[27:31.040 --> 27:38.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I think it's good that there'll be more, you know, smaller cons in various parts of the country because, you know, I'd like to see one up in Canada, for instance.
[27:39.080 --> 27:41.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'd like to see one up in the, like, Boston, places like that.
[27:41.780 --> 27:42.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Frigid con.
[27:42.200 --> 27:42.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, frigid.
[27:42.600 --> 27:45.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this one might be the last year, Johnny X told me.
[27:45.480 --> 27:45.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[27:45.980 --> 27:52.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, hopefully we can make a good one out of this to show him that maybe this one shouldn't die because it gets bigger and bigger every year.
[27:52.880 --> 27:53.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[27:53.660 --> 28:00.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Although, keep it under the medium-sized con size, you know, because, you know, when it gets too large, it gets a little aggravating, as we all know.
[28:00.420 --> 28:00.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[28:03.340 --> 28:08.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Also, we were going to throw a little bash down there, and Isaac knows how good our bashes are, so.
[28:08.280 --> 28:09.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, yes, I swung by.
[28:10.860 --> 28:11.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was part of my...
[28:11.920 --> 28:13.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, that's all that I had to say.
[28:13.700 --> 28:15.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just wanted to check in with you guys.
[28:15.200 --> 28:17.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Glad that you guys are still shouting on the radio.
[28:17.860 --> 28:18.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, that's what we do.
[28:18.700 --> 28:19.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we'll get together real soon.
[28:19.960 --> 28:20.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, take care.
[28:20.860 --> 28:21.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bye.
[28:21.340 --> 28:22.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we don't really shout.
[28:23.160 --> 28:25.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we do when people annoy us.
[28:25.380 --> 28:25.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[28:25.740 --> 28:26.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it reminds me.
[28:26.380 --> 28:27.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: I saw the MTV special again the other day.
[28:28.180 --> 28:30.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I found the tape that it was on.
[28:30.320 --> 28:31.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just decided to watch it for fun.
[28:31.680 --> 28:33.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Boy, you know, it does not age well either.
[28:34.780 --> 28:37.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: It wasn't good when it started, and it sure hasn't aged well.
[28:37.420 --> 28:37.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: MTV.
[28:38.040 --> 28:39.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not a fine bottle of port.
[28:39.780 --> 28:40.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Ah, unbelievable.
[28:41.520 --> 28:42.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, let's go over here.
[28:42.380 --> 28:42.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[28:43.020 --> 28:43.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[28:45.160 --> 28:45.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speak up, please.
[28:46.320 --> 28:48.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, this is Drywall from Los Angeles.
[28:48.440 --> 28:48.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: How you doing?
[28:49.080 --> 28:50.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, you're in the belly of the beast there.
[28:50.780 --> 28:54.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, yeah, I was actually, uh, Rage Against the Machine played a free show last night.
[28:55.020 --> 28:55.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Were you at that show?
[28:55.940 --> 28:56.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, yeah.
[28:56.760 --> 29:03.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, that's where the trouble all started when, uh, the police started, uh, coming in and they were on horseback and everything.
[29:03.580 --> 29:04.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[29:04.180 --> 29:06.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, okay, here's, here's what the mainstream media is reporting.
[29:07.080 --> 29:14.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're reporting that, that rioters started throwing concrete and, uh, lighting fires in the crowd and the police moved in to, uh, maintain order.
[29:14.760 --> 29:15.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that what happened?
[29:16.040 --> 29:28.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, uh, I have some, I have a couple friends who are in the black block, um, and, uh, they were over, there's a fence, they built, like, these big fences, and, uh, they were actually in front of one by the Staples Center.
[29:28.680 --> 29:29.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh...
[29:29.080 --> 29:29.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who was that, the police?
[29:30.320 --> 29:30.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, what?
[29:31.100 --> 29:32.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: The police constructed the fences?
[29:32.220 --> 29:35.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there's, like, huge fences all around the Staples Center downtown.
[29:37.200 --> 29:47.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and I guess they, people had thrown, um, like, water bottles and stuff over the fence at the police, and not really things that would, like, cause them harm.
[29:48.020 --> 29:54.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then the police started firing, um, these, like, paintball-type guns that shoot pepper spray in the paintballs.
[29:54.920 --> 29:56.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and a friend of mine actually got hit by one.
[29:57.640 --> 29:58.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not pleasant.
[29:59.100 --> 30:02.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, then they, they just started firing that, and, uh...
[30:02.120 --> 30:07.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: A couple people climbed on top of the fence, and they had some black flags, and they were waving them.
[30:08.480 --> 30:11.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, the, uh, the police were hosing them down with pepper spray.
[30:11.680 --> 30:14.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it was literally just pouring off their face.
[30:14.820 --> 30:20.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they stayed up on the fence, and then the, uh, police said they'd shut down the concert.
[30:21.480 --> 30:23.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this was after Rage Against the Machine played.
[30:23.700 --> 30:25.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: A band called Oz and Motley was playing.
[30:25.640 --> 30:29.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they shut down the concert, and they said, you have 15 minutes to leave.
[30:30.360 --> 30:36.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, me and my friends waited around for about 10 minutes or so, and we didn't particularly want to get arrested then.
[30:36.060 --> 30:36.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[30:36.940 --> 30:37.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we started leaving.
[30:38.800 --> 30:40.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, there was two exits.
[30:41.180 --> 30:49.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I, I, the police obviously did it, uh, on purpose to have the two exits because it's perfect for them to corral everyone in this huge square.
[30:49.920 --> 30:55.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if they want to shut it down, all they have to do is form, like, two police barricades.
[30:55.200 --> 30:57.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, I mean, everybody, there's really nowhere to go.
[30:58.180 --> 31:08.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, on one of the exits that we actually exited through, it's almost like a long hallway about 15 feet across because there's a fence on one side and buildings on the other.
[31:10.060 --> 31:18.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, once the, uh, the 15 minutes were up, they, I guess they started coming in on horseback and, uh, bikes and stuff.
[31:18.600 --> 31:20.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they were firing rubber bullets.
[31:20.660 --> 31:23.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I heard some concussion grenades go off earlier.
[31:24.540 --> 31:29.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, pretty much the exit that we were at, everybody just started running, like, full speed.
[31:29.680 --> 31:32.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you didn't run with them, you'd probably get trampled.
[31:32.800 --> 31:36.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, I mean, just the way it was set up, there was really not very many places for people to go.
[31:37.000 --> 31:38.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: How many people were there altogether, about?
[31:38.960 --> 31:40.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I'm not sure.
[31:41.180 --> 31:44.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, on Indymedia, they said around between three and a thousand, I think.
[31:44.960 --> 31:46.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but I, I'm not positive.
[31:47.240 --> 31:47.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[31:49.220 --> 31:58.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it sounds like a recipe for disaster, uh, pushing people through two exits and, uh, and firing things at them as they, as they are retreating, which is what I've heard as, as well.
[31:58.560 --> 31:58.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[31:58.800 --> 32:01.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, anything else that has not been reported?
[32:02.140 --> 32:08.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, there's, uh, the Indymedia site has a breaking news thing, and it's updated, seems like, every half hour or so.
[32:09.160 --> 32:09.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[32:09.600 --> 32:12.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, I'm, I'm not at the protest, uh, right now.
[32:13.300 --> 32:18.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I've talked to some people, and tomorrow is the protest against police brutality.
[32:19.540 --> 32:21.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I don't know what's going to happen then.
[32:22.140 --> 32:28.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I don't know if the police are going to start shutting down areas or, or what, but I don't know how bad it's going to get.
[32:29.040 --> 32:31.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: I assume you, you heard what happened with free speech TV, right?
[32:31.960 --> 32:34.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, about the, uh, the broadcast?
[32:34.580 --> 32:38.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, the broadcast being canceled or, uh, having the plug pulled on it.
[32:38.860 --> 32:39.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[32:39.740 --> 32:47.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, actually, somebody, uh, when my friends were, uh, marching, somebody said, should we go down there and see what's happening so they can get satellite feed up?
[32:48.200 --> 32:48.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[32:48.400 --> 32:51.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, there was, there was only like a hundred people or so, so.
[32:51.660 --> 32:51.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[32:52.300 --> 32:52.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's amazing.
[32:53.000 --> 33:00.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, when I was in Philadelphia, outside the, the, uh, IMC there, uh, it was just amazing watching what the police were doing to the media people.
[33:00.720 --> 33:04.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I don't mean the, you know, the, the mainstream media, because they're obviously in a totally different place.
[33:04.400 --> 33:05.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're, they're protected.
[33:05.300 --> 33:06.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: They might as well be convention delegates.
[33:06.720 --> 33:11.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm talking about independent people walking around tape recorders talking to, you know, the average Joe on the street.
[33:11.200 --> 33:17.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, they would surround the building, uh, with, with either bicycles just on foot or, or with horses.
[33:18.440 --> 33:22.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, people would be going in there to try and find violations of various sorts.
[33:22.880 --> 33:33.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: They'd be asking for all kinds of permits, you know, on the day of, of, of the actual convention to all of a sudden, uh, you know, throw all this at somebody, uh, seems a bit unreasonable, basically harassing them in every way possible.
[33:34.200 --> 33:36.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, and it's the media, you know, it's the real media.
[33:36.660 --> 33:41.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you, if you, if you want to get technical about it and, uh, it looks like they're doing the same thing over there.
[33:41.180 --> 33:46.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, the whole thing with free speech TV was, uh, seemed like a calculated plot to, to shut down the broadcast.
[33:46.660 --> 33:47.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[33:47.100 --> 33:51.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some group or protesters, uh, were actually filed a lawsuit against the, the city.
[33:51.960 --> 34:05.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have all my facts on this, but they actually were, got some sort of thing like an injunction to prevent, uh, zoning enforcement to be done on these, uh, protester, um, headquarter locations sort of thing.
[34:05.380 --> 34:07.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: So there was, there was some victory I read about.
[34:08.160 --> 34:15.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that was, police weren't allowed to, or like zoning people weren't allowed to do this enforcement stuff on this week.
[34:15.500 --> 34:15.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[34:15.900 --> 34:18.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you want to hear the whole story, listen to the, uh, rebroadcast of the evening news.
[34:18.680 --> 34:20.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: It'll be on at 11 o'clock on WBAI.
[34:21.280 --> 34:21.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[34:21.660 --> 34:31.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess a lot of, uh, uh, people protesting, um, the centers where they meet, uh, were lit up by police helicopters a lot, uh, in the weeks before it.
[34:31.120 --> 34:39.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I thought I read something about them trying to get a restraining order of some sort, but I, that was just a, something I found a website somewhere, so.
[34:39.320 --> 34:39.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[34:39.800 --> 34:41.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, listen, uh, good luck out there.
[34:41.480 --> 34:44.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Stay safe and, uh, and keep us updated.
[34:44.740 --> 34:47.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: The good thing about Indy Media Center is people can file stories.
[34:47.540 --> 34:48.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyone can file a story.
[34:48.860 --> 34:51.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: I filed one last week about Terrence.
[34:51.660 --> 34:57.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, and it's, it's a really good way to get some firsthand information, pictures, audio, what have, do you have something to say?
[35:01.660 --> 35:03.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I was basically...
[35:03.160 --> 35:04.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Other than police brutality.
[35:04.540 --> 35:06.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I wasn't really there protesting anything.
[35:06.900 --> 35:09.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to be there in case police did get out of hand.
[35:09.700 --> 35:09.820]  Mm-hmm.
[35:09.860 --> 35:11.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Somebody got hurt or needed to be guided off.
[35:12.140 --> 35:12.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[35:12.500 --> 35:13.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like I could help somebody.
[35:13.980 --> 35:19.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, a lot of people are there, are protesting, uh, for Mumia Abu-Jamal to get a new case.
[35:19.640 --> 35:20.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[35:20.020 --> 35:20.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: In Los Angeles?
[35:21.340 --> 35:21.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[35:22.220 --> 35:22.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[35:22.960 --> 35:25.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, I saw some pro-choice people there.
[35:26.140 --> 35:31.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, there's a lot of, uh, anarchists, communists, all kinds of people there.
[35:31.120 --> 35:42.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, an amazing thing, though, I've been talking about this with a lot of people from all different walks of life, and the question that keeps coming up, and this is not the WBAI audience, this is, you know, mainstream people, why bother protesting?
[35:43.260 --> 35:46.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, that's the question I always get, is why bother protesting?
[35:46.300 --> 35:49.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: And when you get to that stage in life where you have to ask, why bother protesting?
[35:50.080 --> 35:51.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, how do you get through the day?
[35:51.480 --> 35:59.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: How do you, how do you, how do you live to see another sunset when there's like nothing to, to fight for, or demonstrate against, or, you know, or express an opinion on?
[35:59.380 --> 36:06.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, really, you're just gonna sit back in your house and watch who wants to be a millionaire five nights a week, and, uh, be happy, and can, you know, convince yourself that this is life?
[36:07.100 --> 36:14.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, in, in mainstream defense, uh, one would tend to think that, uh, you should have a concise point that you're trying to make in a protest.
[36:14.800 --> 36:16.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, and a lot of, a lot of people do.
[36:16.240 --> 36:16.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not everybody does.
[36:17.100 --> 36:17.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not just to kind of be there and pass up the police.
[36:17.860 --> 36:27.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there are people that are, that are just, you know, passers-by, or people that just want to, uh, you know, want to be protesters, but there are a lot of people there that have some real issues that, uh, they are expressing.
[36:27.640 --> 36:28.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: You never see that.
[36:28.760 --> 36:32.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: You, in, in Philadelphia, you did not hear anything about what the people were protesting.
[36:32.820 --> 36:33.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: You just heard they were blocking traffic.
[36:34.060 --> 36:35.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, why were they blocking traffic?
[36:35.260 --> 36:36.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: They never asked the question.
[36:36.580 --> 36:43.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Had you talked to the people there, you would have gotten some pretty, uh, interesting viewpoints, and some very, uh, you know, very dedicated, uh, people.
[36:43.560 --> 36:44.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Very well.
[36:44.840 --> 36:47.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah, I was actually approached by someone from, I think, CBS or NBC.
[36:47.860 --> 36:53.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: NBC Radio, I don't remember, and it was for, uh, an interview for the radio, and I mentioned the MPAA case.
[36:53.940 --> 36:58.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, it's kind of on the spot, so it may be, like, a little, I don't know.
[36:58.200 --> 36:59.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think Jack Valenti is there, actually.
[37:00.160 --> 37:01.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think he's at the Democratic Convention.
[37:02.400 --> 37:03.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, he's one of the big Democrats.
[37:04.360 --> 37:08.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I remember he was, uh, he was, uh, Lyndon Johnson's right-hand man for a while.
[37:08.880 --> 37:10.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, uh, yeah, keep an eye out for him.
[37:11.080 --> 37:16.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hand out some, you know, Stop the MPAA stickers, or, or Jack Valenti shirts, or whatever.
[37:17.040 --> 37:30.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, a note on the Secret Service, uh, I guess, uh, a couple friends of mine knew a person in the Anarchist Black Bloc that was, I believe it was on Santa Monica Pier where the delegates had a party, and, uh, they actually got within 10 feet of the President,
[37:31.260 --> 37:32.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: and, uh, they made eye contact.
[37:32.940 --> 37:36.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: So the Secret Service wasn't doing their job, uh, very well.
[37:36.460 --> 37:38.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: What, you're not supposed to be able to make eye contact with the President?
[37:38.300 --> 37:40.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I don't think you're supposed to get that close.
[37:40.720 --> 37:40.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Ah.
[37:41.460 --> 37:43.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: You might be able to, uh, I don't know.
[37:43.660 --> 37:44.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Were they wearing their masks?
[37:45.980 --> 37:46.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[37:47.320 --> 37:52.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: I would have liked to have seen Clinton's eyes when he looked into somebody's eyes with a mask on, staring him down.
[37:52.980 --> 37:53.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: That would have been kind of cool.
[37:53.800 --> 37:54.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Very amusing sight.
[37:54.900 --> 37:57.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you wore a blue dress around your head, it might have got his attention.
[37:57.580 --> 37:57.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[37:58.600 --> 37:59.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, we're going to move on.
[37:59.860 --> 38:00.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks, uh, thanks for the call.
[38:00.820 --> 38:01.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good luck out there.
[38:01.400 --> 38:01.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[38:09.580 --> 38:10.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speak up, please.
[38:10.780 --> 38:11.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Emmanuel, Alex here.
[38:11.820 --> 38:12.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: How you doing?
[38:12.380 --> 38:12.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: How's it going?
[38:12.880 --> 38:13.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's on your mind?
[38:13.620 --> 38:16.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, speaking of the, uh, restraining orders...
[38:16.480 --> 38:17.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: What are you speaking through?
[38:17.640 --> 38:19.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm actually on a Verizon payphone.
[38:19.860 --> 38:21.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I pulled over on the side of the road.
[38:21.680 --> 38:24.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: It literally sounds like you're speaking through a tin can.
[38:24.340 --> 38:24.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[38:24.500 --> 38:25.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: It really does, yeah.
[38:25.520 --> 38:27.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I very well could be.
[38:27.300 --> 38:27.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[38:27.700 --> 38:28.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, let's, uh, let's hear what you have to say.
[38:29.280 --> 38:37.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, speaking of temporary restraining orders, I don't know if you know or not, but, uh, there's one issued yesterday against the Verizon workers.
[38:38.300 --> 38:39.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the Verizon workers.
[38:39.740 --> 38:40.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Only in New York.
[38:40.960 --> 38:53.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Verizon went to the Supreme Court of New York, got an injunction issued against the striking workers, telling them that they cannot, uh, protest in front of any facilities and block the entrance.
[38:53.780 --> 38:59.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have to have a 10-foot hole in between them at all times so that cars can pass in and out.
[38:59.240 --> 39:02.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're not allowed to yell things at people, although they can still...
[39:03.240 --> 39:03.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello?
[39:04.420 --> 39:06.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: He has to deposit another quarter.
[39:06.080 --> 39:07.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think Verizon just cut him off.
[39:07.400 --> 39:08.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I think he's still there.
[39:08.480 --> 39:09.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think they're just asking for money.
[39:09.700 --> 39:10.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: 10 cents.
[39:10.780 --> 39:11.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[39:11.840 --> 39:15.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have 15 cents credit toward overtime.
[39:16.020 --> 39:16.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: That sounded like a quarter.
[39:17.260 --> 39:17.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[39:17.560 --> 39:17.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: That was a quarter.
[39:18.540 --> 39:18.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[39:19.840 --> 39:20.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello again.
[39:20.560 --> 39:20.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[39:21.000 --> 39:25.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, um, you're saying that they're not allowed to, to chant, to say stuff?
[39:26.160 --> 39:30.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think they're allowed to say a lot of what they're usually allowed to say.
[39:30.160 --> 39:34.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: The wording on the restraining order, as expected, is very vague.
[39:34.500 --> 39:48.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can view it, the whole restraining order, if you go to www.cwa1108.org, or if you go to my site, verizoneedspoop.com, we have a link to CWA.
[39:48.960 --> 39:52.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm sure Verizon really sucks points to it somehow, too, since we're pointing to the union people.
[39:52.940 --> 39:58.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, um, that's, uh, that's pretty sobering news, that they would actually restrict their speech like that.
[39:58.800 --> 40:02.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, yeah, you know, blocking doors, blocking cars, that's, that's generally frowned upon.
[40:02.800 --> 40:12.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is what you're supposed to do, though, you know, when, when you're striking, you walk in front of the place, you walk back and forth, and you can say things to the scabs that are, you know, taking your jobs and preventing you from controlling.
[40:12.980 --> 40:14.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's what a strike is.
[40:14.300 --> 40:15.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's how strikes generally work.
[40:15.800 --> 40:23.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, uh, you know, I don't think anybody is advocating violence or blocking doors or, or, you know, pounding on cars and rocking them to and fro.
[40:24.220 --> 40:26.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think that anyone's, anyone's supporting that kind of a thing.
[40:26.900 --> 40:30.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, but marching up and down, chanting, that's, that's what a strike is.
[40:30.600 --> 40:32.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: To say that you can't do that is unbelievable.
[40:32.800 --> 40:39.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: One of the things that you don't hear about, uh, on the TV, all you hear about is maybe sabotage by Verizon, uh, striking workers or something.
[40:40.120 --> 40:57.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: But one of the things I heard about when I talked to the, uh, 1104, which is Nassau County, was, uh, a couple of the, what they think is management people over at Verizon Wireless, passed by a picket line, I think it was Monday morning, uh, in a van.
[40:57.240 --> 41:03.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: They opened up the side door of the van, started spraying down the workers, the strikers, with fire extinguishers.
[41:03.240 --> 41:08.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then when they took off in the van, everybody was very mad at them, and rightly so.
[41:08.660 --> 41:08.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[41:08.760 --> 41:09.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: They hit somebody.
[41:09.760 --> 41:12.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: They hit one of the striking workers, and they had to be rushed to the hospital.
[41:12.920 --> 41:13.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: This happened where?
[41:14.240 --> 41:17.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, on Post Avenue in Westbury, I think on Monday.
[41:17.520 --> 41:20.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you go to VerizonEatsPoop.com, I have a...
[41:20.040 --> 41:20.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-oh.
[41:21.140 --> 41:22.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to deposit another quarter.
[41:22.720 --> 41:24.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Five cents, please.
[41:24.340 --> 41:24.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy.
[41:30.080 --> 41:31.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Twenty cents credit towards...
[41:31.360 --> 41:33.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: It seems to me they could do that a lot quicker.
[41:33.860 --> 41:34.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[41:34.220 --> 41:35.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: How long it takes for it to realize you put a quarter in.
[41:36.100 --> 41:36.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, wait a minute.
[41:36.880 --> 41:40.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, it should be on, on all the major news sites, as well as just your site.
[41:40.860 --> 41:41.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's it.
[41:42.000 --> 41:42.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's it.
[41:42.460 --> 41:50.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was on, uh, they have a tape, actually, that you can call up, the unions, and they give information about the negotiations for the day.
[41:50.240 --> 41:51.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe they had it on the tape.
[41:51.940 --> 41:52.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[41:52.340 --> 41:54.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you can get those numbers off the website, as well.
[41:55.460 --> 41:55.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[41:55.860 --> 41:57.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we'll look into that story, but that's, that's pretty shocking.
[41:58.100 --> 41:58.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it is.
[41:58.680 --> 41:59.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anything else to tell us?
[41:59.680 --> 42:01.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I was listening to Democracy Now!
[42:01.800 --> 42:03.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: this morning on my way out to Southampton.
[42:03.880 --> 42:04.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[42:04.680 --> 42:16.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I heard some sound bites from what the guy who just called up before was describing, uh, police shooting rubber bullets at, uh, at the people at the Rage Against the Machine concert.
[42:16.680 --> 42:19.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was, you know, it was really, it was just upsetting.
[42:20.220 --> 42:21.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really upsetting.
[42:21.160 --> 42:26.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm listening to it, and you would hear these people screaming, no, don't shoot, don't shoot.
[42:26.200 --> 42:29.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then you would hear these loud guns just continually shooting.
[42:29.560 --> 42:29.740]  Uh-huh.
[42:30.060 --> 42:31.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was, it was really frightening.
[42:32.060 --> 42:32.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[42:32.460 --> 42:33.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really frightening.
[42:33.200 --> 42:37.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, you know, if, uh, if you got free speech TV, you could see Democracy Now!
[42:37.380 --> 42:39.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: because they air that, uh, on a daily basis.
[42:40.860 --> 42:41.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, uh...
[42:41.220 --> 42:42.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Doing some good work.
[42:42.180 --> 42:46.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I'd like to see some video images of just what's going on out there, because you sure won't see that on commercial TV.
[42:46.940 --> 42:48.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: C-SPAN is the closest thing you can get to it.
[42:48.740 --> 42:48.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[42:49.040 --> 42:52.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: But they got a pretty full, uh, schedule right now with all kinds of things going on inside.
[42:53.260 --> 42:53.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[42:54.020 --> 42:54.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[42:54.660 --> 42:54.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[42:55.060 --> 42:56.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Alex, thanks for, uh, thanks for the update.
[42:56.160 --> 42:56.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good night, Isaac, Bernie.
[42:57.160 --> 42:57.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[42:57.560 --> 42:58.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'll talk to you guys later.
[42:58.320 --> 42:58.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[42:58.740 --> 42:58.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[42:59.160 --> 42:59.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for calling.
[42:59.920 --> 43:01.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[43:01.900 --> 43:02.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[43:02.360 --> 43:02.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[43:03.440 --> 43:04.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, Emmanuel.
[43:04.340 --> 43:04.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's Sina.
[43:04.580 --> 43:05.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you?
[43:05.100 --> 43:05.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[43:05.800 --> 43:05.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good.
[43:06.120 --> 43:06.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, Isaac.
[43:06.880 --> 43:07.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[43:07.340 --> 43:08.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, let me think of...
[43:08.340 --> 43:09.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Here's my laundry list of things.
[43:09.760 --> 43:12.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, firstly, um, Democratic Convention.
[43:12.880 --> 43:18.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bill Clinton, rumor has it, he may be the MPA president in 2000 or 2001.
[43:19.360 --> 43:22.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's actually been a rumor that's been going around for at least a year.
[43:22.580 --> 43:23.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, yeah.
[43:23.340 --> 43:24.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, he's got to do something.
[43:24.680 --> 43:24.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[43:24.880 --> 43:26.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, so it's been around for a while.
[43:26.440 --> 43:26.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that's...
[43:26.700 --> 43:32.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: At some point, Jack Valenti's going to have the talk with him, the talk where he talks about me and what a threat I am to Western civilization.
[43:32.760 --> 43:33.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, he doesn't even know who you are.
[43:33.800 --> 43:35.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: You make t-shirts with his picture on them.
[43:35.160 --> 43:36.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: He doesn't know who I am.
[43:36.480 --> 43:40.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe we could make, like, Big Stop the MPA blue dresses or something.
[43:40.500 --> 43:40.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[43:40.700 --> 43:41.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Enough with the blue dress jokes.
[43:42.260 --> 43:42.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry.
[43:42.760 --> 43:42.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[43:42.880 --> 43:44.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we're not going to talk about the stain.
[43:44.820 --> 43:46.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, that's over the top.
[43:46.040 --> 43:47.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, okay, all right.
[43:47.260 --> 43:47.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, Jane.
[43:48.060 --> 43:48.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Whatever.
[43:48.540 --> 43:58.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, so you can actually see somewhat free speech TV on Manhattan Neighborhood Network if you're in Manhattan and you're getting that Time Warner cable terrible thing.
[43:58.680 --> 43:58.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[43:58.860 --> 43:59.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: How does that work?
[44:00.200 --> 44:08.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Channel 34 or 35, I believe, airs free speech TV, like, once a day or something at certain hours.
[44:08.980 --> 44:10.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to turn to the channel and find out.
[44:10.780 --> 44:11.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[44:11.160 --> 44:13.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: But they do air it, but not all of it.
[44:14.000 --> 44:15.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's a start, but it's only a start.
[44:16.020 --> 44:18.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, I mean, you can also see in our Game Show Network, too.
[44:18.880 --> 44:18.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[44:18.980 --> 44:19.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I don't know.
[44:20.120 --> 44:24.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: I get Game Show Network all the time, you know, so I'd much rather get something worthwhile.
[44:24.100 --> 44:26.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm so envious.
[44:26.280 --> 44:44.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, also, too, with Mafia Boy, actually, I'm wondering, maybe a good idea for him, because if he'll have to pay restitution if he's found guilty, you know, a good idea might be is if the companies and the big, scary, greedy corporations might be nice and say,
[44:44.740 --> 44:52.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: hey, instead of paying us restitution, it might be a good idea if he could give the money to people and use it for people to get computers and to get online.
[44:52.640 --> 44:55.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's assuming this guy has any money to start with.
[44:55.320 --> 44:55.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[44:55.700 --> 44:57.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I mean, he has to pay restitution.
[44:58.080 --> 45:00.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if, as a minor, he's required.
[45:00.520 --> 45:06.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Plus, I don't know if there's really any restitution to pay, because you're talking about corporations that, you know, sell things on their website.
[45:06.800 --> 45:11.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, all the people that couldn't get there on Monday, they just never went there again, or did they maybe go there on Tuesday?
[45:12.280 --> 45:14.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe all the publicity helped them get more sales.
[45:14.500 --> 45:19.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes you can ask for damages in terms of, like, lost profits and things like that.
[45:19.220 --> 45:22.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know, but that might be an idea, too.
[45:22.800 --> 45:24.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: I like the community service idea.
[45:24.140 --> 45:28.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, see, one thing a lot of people aren't talking about is the actual evidence, and that's something we've been asking about from the beginning.
[45:28.640 --> 45:29.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where's the evidence?
[45:29.300 --> 45:30.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: How do you know it was this guy?
[45:30.300 --> 45:31.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: There isn't any.
[45:31.760 --> 45:36.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: When it all happened, they said there's no way to trace this, and now they've traced it, so I'd like to know more.
[45:36.760 --> 45:38.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're looking for a scapegoat, I think.
[45:38.820 --> 45:39.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[45:40.000 --> 45:41.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, so just thought I'd share.
[45:41.620 --> 45:42.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[45:42.040 --> 45:42.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I'll talk to you later.
[45:42.940 --> 45:43.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bye.
[45:49.220 --> 45:53.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was going to amplify on the previous caller, in fact, I was almost going to use the same words, take heart.
[45:54.120 --> 46:04.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can see some or all of free speech TV and or deep dish, besides Channel 34, that's the correct channel in the morning, from 8 a.m.
[46:04.320 --> 46:04.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: to 10 a.m.
[46:04.840 --> 46:06.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's simulcast with Democracy Now!
[46:06.380 --> 46:07.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, you'll see...
[46:07.400 --> 46:07.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[46:08.160 --> 46:08.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[46:08.480 --> 46:11.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez, and there's a full crew there.
[46:12.080 --> 46:18.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: The one in Philly should have gone off the same way, but they had some trouble with cooperation.
[46:18.060 --> 46:25.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: I spoke to someone in Manhattan, the neighborhood network, and she couldn't get one of the other boroughs to come through on the satellite feed or something like that.
[46:25.240 --> 46:26.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: But they seem to have got it together.
[46:27.280 --> 46:36.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: By the way, there's like a minute and 41 second delay if you turn on the TV and sound and watch that, because I had the radio feed from Democracy Now!
[46:36.040 --> 46:37.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: on, and it was a little bit quicker.
[46:37.400 --> 46:38.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was a little bit ahead of that.
[46:38.460 --> 46:39.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: A minute and 41 delay?
[46:39.920 --> 46:41.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: A minute and 41, yes.
[46:41.700 --> 46:44.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you watch it on 34, I wouldn't worry about that.
[46:44.720 --> 46:46.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the video is definitely passable.
[46:46.780 --> 46:48.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, there's some good people there.
[46:49.540 --> 46:54.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it sounds like they're using public access to get the... I mean, it's great that they're doing that, but it's not... they don't really have the channel.
[46:55.020 --> 46:56.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're using public access.
[46:56.520 --> 46:56.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah.
[46:56.760 --> 46:59.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're preempting a whole two-hour slot between 8-E-M and 10-E-M.
[46:59.540 --> 47:00.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know what's going on.
[47:00.480 --> 47:01.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're probably some religion show.
[47:02.660 --> 47:17.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: But also, late at night, in fact, some of the Democracy Now that wasn't seen, the video portion from Philadelphia, all during the Republican one, late at night, sometime between midnight and 6 a.m.
[47:17.920 --> 47:23.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you look for CUNY TV, they regularly carry free-speech TV and or deep-dish.
[47:24.120 --> 47:26.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just look for CUNY TV anytime after midnight.
[47:27.040 --> 47:33.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, between 4 to 6 a.m., they actually re-ran Democracy Now with better quality than Channel 34 was putting out.
[47:33.680 --> 47:37.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, you see, that tells me that there is public interest in this.
[47:37.160 --> 47:41.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I also think that we should be calling the people who are broadcasting and thanking them for doing that.
[47:41.060 --> 47:42.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, CUNY is doing a pretty good job.
[47:42.540 --> 47:45.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, they showed a lot from the Indy Media Center during Philadelphia.
[47:45.580 --> 47:51.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I don't know about, since nothing, there's a lot of good video that probably didn't get out over the satellite.
[47:52.160 --> 47:56.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I thought, so tonight after midnight, it'll be interesting to see, you know, what gets fit.
[47:56.480 --> 47:57.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because the video was out there.
[47:58.040 --> 48:05.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And even if it didn't get transmitted by the satellite, I'd like to hopefully see that assembled sometime during some regular program.
[48:05.560 --> 48:10.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because the people out there on the streets doing it, including the puppets and all, and the whole thing that got trashed again.
[48:10.560 --> 48:10.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[48:11.260 --> 48:11.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[48:11.680 --> 48:15.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: The other thing is, like, everybody gets, what, USA Network.
[48:15.400 --> 48:15.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[48:16.160 --> 48:18.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Isaac, name a program on USA Network that's good.
[48:18.600 --> 48:19.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: I honestly can't.
[48:19.340 --> 48:20.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can't do it, can you?
[48:20.220 --> 48:21.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can anybody name a program on USA Network that's any good?
[48:21.780 --> 48:23.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think I could name a program on USA Network.
[48:23.700 --> 48:27.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, TNT, all these, like, useless, like, channels that everybody gets.
[48:27.340 --> 48:28.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, TNT plays old Godzilla movies.
[48:28.580 --> 48:30.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have wrestling, yeah, all kinds of things.
[48:30.000 --> 48:30.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Duke's a hazard.
[48:31.000 --> 48:31.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, whatever.
[48:32.220 --> 48:35.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: These are repeats of TV shows from the 70s, all right?
[48:36.020 --> 48:39.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, we have to fight to get things that actually talk about issues.
[48:39.800 --> 48:43.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's sad that we have to do that, but let's at least do it so that, you know, we'll get something.
[48:43.860 --> 48:44.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, a lot of good stuff.
[48:44.900 --> 48:45.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[48:45.340 --> 48:49.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, CUNY TV, watch for it late at night or 34 during the morning, and hopefully it'll go off without a hitch.
[48:50.140 --> 48:50.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[48:50.500 --> 48:50.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, thanks.
[48:51.020 --> 48:51.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye.
[48:51.320 --> 48:54.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, for those of us not in New York, that doesn't really do us much good.
[48:54.820 --> 48:56.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, of course, people are listening to this show all around the country.
[48:56.780 --> 49:00.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope they all try and improve their choices out there.
[49:00.140 --> 49:04.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's the closest thing to getting a WBAI in your neighborhood, which, uh, try doing that too while you're at it.
[49:05.240 --> 49:05.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[49:05.940 --> 49:06.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[49:07.280 --> 49:07.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[49:07.740 --> 49:08.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Speak up.
[49:08.500 --> 49:13.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I just wanted to say, I was listening to the, uh, audio of your deposition.
[49:13.680 --> 49:14.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[49:14.360 --> 49:16.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, that was really frightening.
[49:17.140 --> 49:22.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, you have a lot more patience than anybody I know, and especially when dealing with that Mark Littback guy.
[49:22.700 --> 49:24.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, he was amazing, wasn't he?
[49:24.740 --> 49:28.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: He was just talking so slow, I was, I was getting impatient, just sitting in my chair.
[49:28.300 --> 49:31.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, he was the guy that started yelling at me about the things that we print in the magazine.
[49:31.240 --> 49:31.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
[49:31.800 --> 49:40.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: But he was just pausing and saying, so explain, and I, I can't imagine being in there looking at him.
[49:40.800 --> 49:42.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: His mouth has to wait for his brain to catch up.
[49:42.720 --> 49:45.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, they, they had some kind of weird tactic going on.
[49:45.500 --> 49:52.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, at, at one point, if you, if you listen to the transcript, he asked me if, um, if, if we print, uh, why we print foreign payphones in the back cover.
[49:52.700 --> 49:54.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if we ever print a phone from America.
[49:54.460 --> 49:55.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, then he came up with the...
[49:55.460 --> 50:02.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then at the end, he, like, comes up with a picture of a, of a, of a, actually an empty phone booth that just has a bunch of, of paper cups in it that was in Florida.
[50:03.060 --> 50:04.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then he thought that was his big victory.
[50:04.860 --> 50:07.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if that was a victory or if it was a joke, you know?
[50:07.280 --> 50:08.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know what he was trying to prove by saying that.
[50:09.160 --> 50:12.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: But yeah, listen to the, to the, um, to the transcript of that.
[50:12.260 --> 50:25.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's fascinating, especially, uh, if you just want to hear that part, it's, uh, on the second day, the second part of the, second day, second part of the second segment, and also the whole third segment, is this guy from the MPAA questioning me.
[50:25.740 --> 50:31.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: The other thing is, uh, I was out of Circuit City the other day wearing a, uh, the anti-DVD CCA shirt from CopyLeft.
[50:32.580 --> 50:36.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: And on my way out, some guys from the store stopped me and they said, what, what does your shirt mean?
[50:36.740 --> 50:41.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I explained it to them and they paused for a second and said, so you can copy DVDs?
[50:42.160 --> 50:44.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, no, no, no, that's not what it's about.
[50:44.360 --> 50:45.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I explained it.
[50:45.200 --> 50:48.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: And finally they, they just looked at each other and then walked away.
[50:49.360 --> 50:50.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that's good or bad.
[50:50.820 --> 50:54.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: I had some guy in a supermarket who worked in a supermarket stop me and say, good luck with your case.
[50:54.980 --> 50:55.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm like, huh?
[50:55.760 --> 50:55.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: What?
[50:57.200 --> 50:59.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Apparently some people are really good at recognizing faces.
[50:59.720 --> 51:04.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, since my face has shown up in various newspapers, he actually read it and knew all about it.
[51:04.700 --> 51:07.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's amazing how many people are, are following this.
[51:07.300 --> 51:08.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I'm, I'm very happy by that.
[51:09.340 --> 51:10.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Won't slip through the cracks.
[51:10.740 --> 51:12.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hoping for a positive outcome here.
[51:12.060 --> 51:12.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[51:12.500 --> 51:12.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good luck.
[51:13.080 --> 51:13.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[51:13.340 --> 51:13.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Take care.
[51:14.500 --> 51:16.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2900.
[51:16.300 --> 51:16.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[51:16.680 --> 51:17.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[51:18.180 --> 51:18.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[51:18.660 --> 51:21.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm wondering if you've ever heard of Chaim Ben-Pesach.
[51:21.780 --> 51:23.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's a, uh, a Kahanist.
[51:23.900 --> 51:28.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's got a nice show on Tuesday and Thursday from, uh, 10 o'clock to 10 30.
[51:29.040 --> 51:35.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I can't say I have, but, uh, he used to, he used to be on Manhattan neighborhood network, but he was so politically incorrect.
[51:35.360 --> 51:36.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: They threw him off.
[51:36.340 --> 51:36.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[51:36.740 --> 51:44.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I would say that anybody with time Warner in Queens from to tonight would be, it's a lot of fun.
[51:44.720 --> 51:45.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[51:45.260 --> 51:49.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you have to, it's, uh, it's an experience.
[51:49.520 --> 51:52.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's also on the web at JTF.org.
[51:52.920 --> 51:53.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[51:53.220 --> 51:54.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, thanks for letting us all know that.
[51:55.380 --> 51:57.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, this brings up some interesting points, though.
[51:57.540 --> 52:05.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: The whole Manhattan neighborhood network, public access in New York City, there, there are so many channels, so much variety, so many controversial things going on.
[52:06.120 --> 52:10.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: On Long Island, we only get one public access channel, and it's always religion.
[52:10.460 --> 52:11.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Why is that?
[52:11.520 --> 52:13.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where is, where is this kind of stuff?
[52:13.320 --> 52:14.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Does it vary from community to community?
[52:15.220 --> 52:16.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: You don't even have one in Philadelphia.
[52:16.840 --> 52:17.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have a blank stare, Isaac.
[52:18.100 --> 52:19.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have no answer, do you?
[52:19.720 --> 52:22.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm, I'm, I'm trying to wrap my mind around the comments you're making.
[52:23.160 --> 52:26.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, I mean, that's what I want to know, is where is the public access out there?
[52:26.340 --> 52:28.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, there is no, there's no controversy.
[52:28.900 --> 52:30.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's nothing, no programming like this.
[52:30.760 --> 52:33.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, you turn on the public access channel, there's always some priest talking about something.
[52:34.260 --> 52:35.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, that's, that's not what it's about.
[52:36.060 --> 52:37.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: So go down and sign up.
[52:37.840 --> 52:40.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not sure how about, you know, I'm not the content provider.
[52:40.360 --> 52:42.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to see the other things that other people are doing.
[52:42.580 --> 52:43.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to see free speech network.
[52:43.800 --> 52:48.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to see, you know, controversial people like this guy just called in about politically incorrect people.
[52:48.420 --> 52:48.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to see that.
[52:49.820 --> 52:50.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go down and sign Why not?
[52:51.040 --> 52:52.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: How do I sign up for something to watch?
[52:53.580 --> 52:55.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, then you're not going to see it.
[52:55.560 --> 52:59.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: If no one is motivated or inspired to go and produce the program, it's not going to be there.
[52:59.700 --> 53:02.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's what I'm asking, is how does it work out there?
[53:02.300 --> 53:06.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because in New York, you get like seven or eight different channels with all kinds of things going on around the clock.
[53:06.900 --> 53:10.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Long Island, you get, you know, one religious guy talking about the same thing over and over again.
[53:10.920 --> 53:14.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I don't know, are we that culturally devoid that there's absolutely no material?
[53:14.420 --> 53:18.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or is there something else going on where people are being prevented from putting things on?
[53:18.520 --> 53:23.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess, if you've ever tried to put something on Long Island Cable and you're unable to do it, I want to know about it.
[53:24.140 --> 53:24.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about that?
[53:25.000 --> 53:26.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: In Philadelphia...
[53:26.140 --> 53:26.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[53:26.760 --> 53:32.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: In Philadelphia, there is no public access, and there hasn't been for years and years.
[53:32.200 --> 53:33.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, how is that possible?
[53:33.400 --> 53:35.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's mandated by the FCC, as we all know.
[53:36.400 --> 53:47.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the cable operators here are required to kick in tens of thousands of dollars a year to a fund, which City Council here in Philadelphia has just been taking and using for other purposes.
[53:48.100 --> 53:52.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a movement here to try to get them to get this money back and to have public access.
[53:53.160 --> 54:03.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the story is that City Council members don't want critical information about them talked about on public access television.
[54:03.800 --> 54:06.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, seeing how they treated the demonstrators a couple of weeks ago, I believe that.
[54:06.780 --> 54:07.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not too surprising.
[54:07.880 --> 54:08.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[54:08.480 --> 54:12.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, we still don't have a single public access channel here in Philadelphia.
[54:12.360 --> 54:12.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's unbelievable.
[54:12.860 --> 54:21.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars waiting in this fund, or which has already been absconded with by the City Council for other, like, sports stadiums or some other nonsense.
[54:23.000 --> 54:25.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you're complaining about Long Island having one channel.
[54:25.200 --> 54:26.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have a single channel here in Philadelphia.
[54:26.900 --> 54:31.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, my point is we don't have a single channel either because it's used by one religious group all the time.
[54:31.120 --> 54:31.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, man.
[54:31.340 --> 54:31.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's my point.
[54:31.860 --> 54:32.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[54:32.660 --> 54:33.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's move on.
[54:33.620 --> 54:33.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[54:34.020 --> 54:34.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[54:35.560 --> 54:35.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[54:36.160 --> 54:36.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, go ahead.
[54:36.900 --> 54:40.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, I would just like to talk about the charges that Mafia Boy is under.
[54:40.620 --> 54:40.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[54:41.100 --> 54:47.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think one of the things, or the primary charge, is loss of corporate profit, something like that.
[54:47.200 --> 54:47.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[54:48.220 --> 55:01.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just would like to direct you to something on the Internet that might be interesting to anyone that is accused of some sort of nasty criminal charge that is based on some nonviolent act.
[55:01.100 --> 55:04.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that is the Lawful Arrest FAQ.
[55:05.180 --> 55:10.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you can find it at www.faqs.org.
[55:10.900 --> 55:12.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you can just wander around and find it.
[55:13.020 --> 55:17.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's posted to misc.legal in the news group, so you can find it and navigate that way.
[55:18.020 --> 55:26.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it specifically talks about a definition of a phrase that is commonly misused, in my opinion.
[55:26.480 --> 55:28.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that phrase is probable cause.
[55:28.760 --> 55:42.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it is my belief that the original term of, I am the author of that document, by the way, is my belief that the original term, meaning of the term probable cause, implied a victim with injury.
[55:42.880 --> 55:52.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think if you look up the Lawful Arrest FAQ and read about probable cause, maybe Mafia Boy might be helped by that.
[55:52.200 --> 56:00.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: By the way, it's all based on the Constitution, and it's very difficult to find a lawyer to represent you these days on constitutional grounds.
[56:01.080 --> 56:03.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: It also talks about why that is in that document.
[56:03.840 --> 56:05.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I hope you all want to check it out.
[56:05.340 --> 56:06.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: He is also in Canada.
[56:06.280 --> 56:06.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: He is in Canada.
[56:06.940 --> 56:07.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, so...
[56:07.820 --> 56:08.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, okay.
[56:08.560 --> 56:09.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: You talk to the Crown.
[56:09.560 --> 56:11.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Different probable cause definition there.
[56:11.860 --> 56:16.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, probable cause here in the United States is not required that any victim be involved.
[56:16.380 --> 56:19.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I would argue that, and if you check out...
[56:19.420 --> 56:21.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm not saying that that's right.
[56:21.020 --> 56:22.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying that's the legal definition.
[56:22.680 --> 56:27.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: It does not... the legal definition of probable cause here does not include there has to be a victim.
[56:27.500 --> 56:30.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I agree with that, and I think that's the reason... I want to say something.
[56:31.220 --> 56:43.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I very much believe in nonviolence, but I believe that we need to have a nonviolent revolution, because I don't think the system is going to change by voting for this particular Republican over this particular Democrat.
[56:43.240 --> 56:48.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think there needs to be massive protests in order to overturn this horrible system that we have.
[56:48.780 --> 56:58.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think that when people are going to jail for things like possessing forbidden flowers or, like, contempt of court, I like to call that having a bad opinion about the court.
[56:58.880 --> 57:04.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, before you start going to massive protests, how about massive support for a candidate who expresses your views?
[57:04.900 --> 57:05.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, absolutely.
[57:06.000 --> 57:12.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, the best guy so far, I think, is Ralph Nader, although I question his stance on marijuana legalization.
[57:13.100 --> 57:17.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that he... what I've heard was that he thinks that marijuana is a defective consumer product.
[57:18.200 --> 57:21.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's not saying anything clear about that, but...
[57:21.040 --> 57:22.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Depends on the manufacturer.
[57:23.920 --> 57:24.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nature.
[57:24.820 --> 57:29.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I think what we're seeing over the past couple of weeks is that there is a lot of discontent.
[57:29.440 --> 57:38.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: A lot of people are willing to protest and say things are wrong, but they just don't have a way of channeling it, because all the media is controlled by the same people.
[57:38.800 --> 57:41.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's no way to express yourself to get your views out there.
[57:41.740 --> 57:51.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now we have some ways of doing that, through radio stations, through new satellite networks, through your own media publications, through IMC, and people have to use that.
[57:51.780 --> 57:55.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have to basically grab that because it belongs to them.
[57:55.440 --> 57:56.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what it's all about.
[57:56.240 --> 57:56.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right on.
[57:56.620 --> 57:57.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Get a website.
[57:57.300 --> 57:58.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Get an access TV show.
[57:58.780 --> 58:04.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go print out some flyers and, you know, make some noise and make people, you know, know about...
[58:04.080 --> 58:06.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: You guys are doing fantastic work, by the way, and Emmanuel.
[58:07.260 --> 58:12.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good luck with the case, and I'll drop off and let somebody else get on if there's any time left.
[58:12.220 --> 58:12.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, thanks.
[58:12.880 --> 58:13.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks so much.
[58:13.660 --> 58:15.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we wouldn't be able to do any of that without the support we get.
[58:15.780 --> 58:19.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: The moral support, that's the most important thing that you could ever ask for.
[58:19.440 --> 58:21.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, financial support for the station is helpful.
[58:21.560 --> 58:22.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Financial support is great.
[58:22.720 --> 58:30.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, if I had to choose between the two, I would go with moral support rather than financial support, only because, you know, money corrupts and I don't know.
[58:30.360 --> 58:34.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, you have to know that people are behind you, the things you do.
[58:34.820 --> 58:36.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
[58:37.080 --> 58:37.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[58:37.460 --> 58:37.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on the air.
[58:38.580 --> 58:39.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, hi.
[58:40.780 --> 58:45.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: CUNY TV is broadcasting the free speech TV stuff.
[58:45.600 --> 58:46.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: We know that.
[58:46.080 --> 58:46.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wednesday night.
[58:46.580 --> 58:47.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not Tuesday night.
[58:47.520 --> 58:48.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, Wednesday night.
[58:48.160 --> 58:51.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wednesday night at 1230 to 430.
[58:51.400 --> 58:51.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[58:52.100 --> 58:54.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: And possibly till 6 if we ever get some...
[58:55.400 --> 58:56.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Depends where we get off the satellite.
[58:56.700 --> 58:58.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've been having trouble with the satellite there.
[58:58.380 --> 58:59.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Friday night at midnight.
[58:59.740 --> 59:00.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Midnight to 2 a.m.
[59:00.920 --> 59:01.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: You say we.
[59:01.640 --> 59:02.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you work for them?
[59:02.380 --> 59:02.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[59:02.780 --> 59:03.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, really?
[59:03.420 --> 59:04.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: How about that?
[59:04.000 --> 59:06.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: That guy very kindly gave us a plug, but...
[59:06.180 --> 59:07.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you guys are doing a great job.
[59:07.500 --> 59:09.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Doing all science programming tonight.
[59:09.460 --> 59:10.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't want people tuning in.
[59:10.860 --> 59:12.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, what's all science programming?
[59:12.620 --> 59:14.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, if you're expecting something else.
[59:14.260 --> 59:14.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mechanical universe, right.
[59:14.740 --> 59:14.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[59:15.200 --> 59:16.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, that's great.
[59:16.420 --> 59:18.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wednesday night and Friday night and Saturday afternoon at 4 p.m.
[59:19.060 --> 59:19.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[59:19.440 --> 59:24.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, if people requested of the cable company, does that affect you guys in any way?
[59:25.300 --> 59:26.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, not really.
[59:26.380 --> 59:26.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[59:26.780 --> 59:28.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, so people should continue to do that then.
[59:28.760 --> 59:29.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[59:29.260 --> 59:29.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Great.
[59:29.620 --> 59:30.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, thanks so much for providing the service.
[59:31.160 --> 59:31.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[59:31.700 --> 59:32.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, take care.
[59:32.500 --> 59:32.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[59:32.740 --> 59:33.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: How do you like that?
[59:33.360 --> 59:36.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Someone who actually puts it on the air, listening to our show.
[59:36.100 --> 59:36.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's really nice to know.
[59:37.160 --> 59:37.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're out of time.
[59:38.560 --> 59:42.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to thank everybody for listening, for all the shows of support and free speech people out there.
[59:43.280 --> 59:44.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're a real inspiration to us.
[59:45.020 --> 59:47.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll be back again next week with hopefully a verdict.
[59:47.920 --> 59:49.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: And who knows?
[59:49.440 --> 59:50.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's going to happen to us at that point?
[59:51.420 --> 59:51.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[59:52.120 --> 59:52.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not worried somehow.
[59:53.420 --> 59:54.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: I feel confident.
[59:55.640 --> 59:57.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyway, might be the last word to hear from me.
[59:57.580 --> 59:59.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I'll be doing the show from then on.
[01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:02.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you hear me come on in the beginning, you know something's up.
[01:00:02.300 --> 01:00:02.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: See you next week.
[01:00:02.980 --> 01:00:03.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good night.