Off The Hook - 2000-09-12

[00:02.340 --> 00:03.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: ...or vice versa.
[00:03.740 --> 00:06.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: The latest in theater, books, art and performance.
[00:06.540 --> 00:07.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: What's new on the Rialto?
[00:08.000 --> 00:08.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: And Ludlow Street.
[00:09.200 --> 00:12.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: And one or two of the 137 Poison Arts Minutes.
[00:12.940 --> 00:13.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Of plays.
[00:13.640 --> 00:17.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Radio minutes that take up to 12 and a half hours to produce.
[00:17.220 --> 00:19.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: A marketing idea still ahead of its time.
[00:19.500 --> 00:20.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Listen to this tune.
[00:20.640 --> 00:22.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, I can see you cats now.
[00:22.540 --> 00:22.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey.
[00:22.840 --> 00:23.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Stop clawing the furniture.
[00:24.200 --> 00:24.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Get down.
[00:24.440 --> 00:25.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: Head for the radio.
[00:25.860 --> 00:26.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes?
[00:26.780 --> 00:28.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: Cat Radio Café.
[00:28.760 --> 00:31.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Cat Radio Café, Wednesday nights at 10.
[00:31.560 --> 00:33.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Here on WBAI.
[00:33.140 --> 00:34.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, do cats drink coffee?
[00:34.540 --> 00:35.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: If it's brewed with fish.
[00:47.230 --> 00:49.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: You were writing very slowly this morning.
[00:49.390 --> 00:52.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's because I don't always remember how to spell certain words.
[00:52.270 --> 00:52.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: You mean potato?
[00:53.150 --> 00:54.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I can spell potato.
[00:54.550 --> 00:54.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah?
[00:54.990 --> 00:55.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: Spell it.
[00:55.490 --> 00:56.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't ask me to spell potato.
[00:56.930 --> 00:57.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
[00:57.370 --> 01:00.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm trying to remember how to spell WBAI.
[01:00.610 --> 01:00.970]  [SPEAKER_20]: WBAI?
[01:01.070 --> 01:02.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: I made a membership pledge and I want to fulfill it.
[01:03.030 --> 01:04.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: You haven't fulfilled your pledge yet?
[01:04.470 --> 01:06.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying not to make any spelling errors.
[01:06.270 --> 01:07.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: Are you trying to be the last person?
[01:07.230 --> 01:08.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: The last person to pay?
[01:08.170 --> 01:09.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why, is there a prize for that?
[01:09.250 --> 01:09.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a potato.
[01:10.330 --> 01:11.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just want the spelling to be correct.
[01:12.090 --> 01:14.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's WBAI Pacifica.
[01:14.090 --> 01:15.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I know how to spell Pacifica.
[01:15.530 --> 01:17.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you spell WBAI?
[01:17.230 --> 01:18.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: W-B-A-I.
[01:19.090 --> 01:19.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, just like it sounds.
[01:19.910 --> 01:20.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now spell potato.
[01:21.010 --> 01:22.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not writing a check to a potato.
[01:22.830 --> 01:25.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, you're writing a check to WBAI.
[01:25.250 --> 01:27.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Fulfill your pledge to WBAI.
[01:27.330 --> 01:28.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Spelled WBAI.
[01:28.890 --> 01:30.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: There is no prize for being the last to pay.
[01:31.110 --> 01:33.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: No one will win, not even a potato.
[01:40.280 --> 01:43.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:43.520 --> 01:46.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: The time is 8 o'clock on a Tuesday night time for Off the Hook.
[01:52.790 --> 01:54.830]  [SPEAKER_21]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:55.250 --> 01:57.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:58.330 --> 02:00.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: I cut myself while shaving.
[02:01.050 --> 02:03.110]  [SPEAKER_21]: Now I can't make a cough.
[02:03.850 --> 02:05.890]  It couldn't get much worse.
[02:08.770 --> 02:11.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bum-Diddly-Bum, but I best expect the worst.
[02:11.990 --> 02:14.030]  [SPEAKER_22]: I hope that's understood.
[02:14.390 --> 02:15.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bum-Diddly-Bum!
[03:08.250 --> 03:10.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: This function is void.
[03:11.370 --> 03:14.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: It takes two arcs.
[03:14.550 --> 03:18.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: The first is S-E-C, a pointer to a factor of 20.
[03:18.510 --> 03:20.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: 2048 unsigned bytes.
[03:20.970 --> 03:24.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: That are at the encrypted disk sector and will be the decrypted.
[03:26.210 --> 03:27.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: The second is key.
[03:28.310 --> 03:31.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: A vector of six unsigned bytes.
[03:31.410 --> 03:32.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: The decrypted title key.
[03:34.670 --> 03:38.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Local variables T1 through T6 are unsigned ints.
[03:40.270 --> 03:45.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Local variable N is a pointer to a S-E-C plus 2048.
[03:45.210 --> 03:50.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: A DMCA steps on me.
[03:50.770 --> 03:53.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't like the DMCA.
[03:53.710 --> 03:55.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes this song illegal.
[03:55.510 --> 03:58.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, oh, oh.
[03:58.010 --> 03:58.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: The DMCA.
[03:59.210 --> 04:01.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: It steps on me.
[04:01.430 --> 04:03.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: It makes this song illegal.
[04:03.870 --> 04:05.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: It makes this song illegal.
[04:06.390 --> 04:06.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[04:09.190 --> 04:11.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Retrieve byte zero of key.
[04:11.710 --> 04:15.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Soar it with byte 84 of SEC.
[04:16.290 --> 04:19.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Achieve the result as an integer.
[04:19.850 --> 04:22.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or it with the hexadecimal constant.
[04:23.370 --> 04:24.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: OX100.
[04:24.810 --> 04:27.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result in T1.
[04:27.390 --> 04:28.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 2.
[04:28.870 --> 04:30.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Retrieve byte one of key.
[04:31.370 --> 04:34.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Soar it with byte 85 of SEC.
[04:34.370 --> 04:36.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result in T2.
[04:38.150 --> 04:39.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 3.
[04:39.390 --> 04:41.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take byte 2 through 5 of key.
[04:42.530 --> 04:45.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: And soar them with bytes 86 through 89 of SEC.
[04:46.190 --> 04:47.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Store the result in T3.
[04:50.850 --> 04:53.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take the low order 3 bits of T3.
[04:54.050 --> 04:58.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which can be computed by the AND of T3 with the constant 7.
[04:59.130 --> 05:01.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result in T4.
[05:06.350 --> 05:07.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: T4.
[05:07.330 --> 05:10.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hate the DMCA.
[05:11.010 --> 05:13.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes this quote I wrote.
[05:14.330 --> 05:16.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes it dumb.
[05:16.830 --> 05:18.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes it legal.
[05:18.550 --> 05:29.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes this song integral.
[05:30.650 --> 05:34.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes this song integral.
[05:37.290 --> 05:41.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes this song illegal.
[05:43.770 --> 05:47.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 5, multiply T3 by 2.
[05:47.750 --> 05:52.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Add 8, subtract T4, and score the result back in T3.
[05:52.850 --> 05:59.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 5 and a half, advanced SEC by 128 bytes.
[05:59.950 --> 06:02.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 6, store 0 in T5.
[06:02.690 --> 06:06.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 7, begin a while looper.
[06:08.030 --> 06:14.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: And 8, continue iterating while SCC does not equal end.
[06:15.130 --> 06:19.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Use T2 as an index into table CSS tab 2.
[06:20.070 --> 06:24.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: And retrieve a byte, which we'll call B1 and T1.
[06:24.410 --> 06:28.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Use T1 as an index into table CSS tab 3.
[06:29.150 --> 06:31.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: And retrieve another byte.
[06:32.690 --> 06:33.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which we'll call B2.
[06:34.790 --> 06:37.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Compute B1s or B2.
[06:37.490 --> 06:39.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result in T4.
[06:41.190 --> 06:45.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 10, shift T1 right by one bit.
[06:45.490 --> 06:48.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result in T2.
[06:48.850 --> 06:53.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 11, take the low order bit of T1.
[06:53.970 --> 06:58.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which can be obtained by taking the end of T1 and the constant 1.
[06:59.130 --> 07:02.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Shift it by and left by 8 bits.
[07:02.770 --> 07:04.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store it with T4.
[07:05.510 --> 07:08.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result back in T1.
[07:08.630 --> 07:15.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, the DMC is so dumb...
[07:16.270 --> 07:22.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, the DMC is so dumb...
[07:22.630 --> 07:24.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's so dumb.
[07:27.150 --> 07:28.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 12.
[07:28.630 --> 07:30.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Use T4 as an index into the table.
[07:31.070 --> 07:32.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: CSS Step 5.
[07:33.470 --> 07:35.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: And retrieve a byte.
[07:35.390 --> 07:36.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Store the results in T4.
[07:39.630 --> 07:43.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Shift the concept of T3 write by 3 bits.
[07:43.910 --> 07:46.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Resort with T3 shift result by write by 1 bit.
[07:47.330 --> 07:50.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Resort with T3 shift result write by 8 bits.
[07:50.490 --> 07:53.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Resort with T3 shift result write by 5 bits.
[07:54.010 --> 07:59.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: And extract below order by by anding it with the hexadestal constant OXF.
[07:59.310 --> 08:00.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result in T6.
[08:02.450 --> 08:03.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 14.
[08:04.090 --> 08:06.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Shift the contents of T3 left by 8 bits.
[08:07.070 --> 08:07.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Resort with T6.
[08:08.370 --> 08:11.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result in T3.
[08:11.650 --> 08:12.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 15.
[08:13.550 --> 08:16.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Use T6 as an index into table.
[08:16.590 --> 08:17.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: CSS Step 4.
[08:19.430 --> 08:21.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: And retrieve a byte.
[08:21.510 --> 08:23.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Store the result in T6.
[08:25.550 --> 08:26.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 16.
[08:28.110 --> 08:34.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Add together T6, T5, T4, and store the result back into T5.
[08:36.390 --> 08:37.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 17.
[08:37.830 --> 08:41.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Use the byte pointed to by SCC as an index into the table.
[08:41.670 --> 08:42.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: CSS Step 1.
[08:43.210 --> 08:46.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take the retrieve byte and store it with a low order byte of T5.
[08:46.950 --> 08:52.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which can be extracted by anding T5 with the hexadecimal constant OXF.
[08:54.890 --> 09:01.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Store the result back into the byte pointed to by SCC.
[09:01.250 --> 09:04.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Then offense the pointer SCC by 1 byte.
[09:05.450 --> 09:06.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 18.
[09:06.990 --> 09:09.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Shift T5 write by 8 bits.
[09:09.810 --> 09:12.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: And store the result back into T5.
[09:12.270 --> 09:14.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 19.
[09:14.390 --> 09:14.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Step 19.
[09:14.490 --> 09:15.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Return to step 8.
[09:15.730 --> 09:17.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: To continue looping.
[09:18.250 --> 09:18.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: 20.
[09:19.270 --> 09:22.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is where we end up when the loop is complete.
[09:23.330 --> 09:23.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: 21.
[09:24.310 --> 09:26.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Return from the procedure.
[09:30.030 --> 09:31.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: 21.
[09:38.910 --> 09:44.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: At the
[09:50.400 --> 09:56.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: end of the procedure.
[09:57.820 --> 09:58.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: 22.
[10:00.720 --> 10:02.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: 22.
[10:02.240 --> 10:05.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's the M.C.A.
[10:05.440 --> 10:08.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the premise is on me.
[10:08.640 --> 10:10.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's steps on me.
[10:11.360 --> 10:13.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's steps on me.
[10:14.500 --> 10:16.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's steps on me.
[10:17.420 --> 10:19.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not free.
[10:20.720 --> 10:22.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's steps on me.
[10:23.000 --> 10:24.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not free.
[10:25.620 --> 10:28.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's steps on me.
[10:28.920 --> 10:30.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not free.
[10:38.580 --> 10:40.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I thought I'd seen it all.
[10:41.800 --> 10:44.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: But that's the DECSS song.
[10:45.100 --> 10:47.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I just hope we didn't break any law by playing that.
[10:48.920 --> 10:54.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I guess, you know, when you say something is speech, somebody is going to prove that it's speech.
[10:54.640 --> 10:56.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that certainly was speech.
[10:57.180 --> 10:58.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: It had a nice chorus, too.
[10:58.500 --> 10:59.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it did.
[10:59.120 --> 10:59.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It did.
[10:59.440 --> 10:59.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was nice.
[11:00.920 --> 11:03.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where can that be found, the person who brought that in to us?
[11:03.380 --> 11:07.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: That can be found, mp3.com slash don't eat Pete.
[11:08.020 --> 11:08.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: All one word.
[11:08.820 --> 11:09.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't eat Pete.
[11:09.820 --> 11:10.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[11:10.440 --> 11:11.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: E-E-T or E-T-E?
[11:12.060 --> 11:12.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: E-T-E.
[11:13.420 --> 11:14.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[11:14.660 --> 11:16.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's quite an endeavor.
[11:16.300 --> 11:19.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, an impassioned folk song there.
[11:20.060 --> 11:21.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, this is exactly what we need.
[11:21.760 --> 11:24.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is what we need to, you know, to bring this to the streets.
[11:25.020 --> 11:29.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's kind of a strange thing to be marching for, but it's important, nonetheless.
[11:29.900 --> 11:31.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I challenge anyone to memorize it.
[11:31.960 --> 11:36.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, don't do that, because you know that there are people out there that will memorize it.
[11:36.560 --> 11:39.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we'll come up here to the studio and recite it, you know, letter by letter.
[11:40.960 --> 11:42.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, there'll be no end of it.
[11:43.100 --> 11:44.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: It'll just never stop, you know?
[11:46.340 --> 11:50.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, anyway, that's the latest as far as that goes.
[11:50.480 --> 11:52.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I mean, that song actually has been out for a while.
[11:53.460 --> 11:58.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, we've been trying for several weeks to get it onto CD-ROM to play here on the show.
[11:58.240 --> 12:06.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And believe it or not, master, you know, pirates that we are in the MPAA's eyes, we could not get it together enough to actually play it on CD until now.
[12:06.940 --> 12:12.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: It took us several weeks just to find somebody who could do it, who could make a version that could be read by a CD machine and all that kind of thing.
[12:12.640 --> 12:14.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And finally, finally we got it.
[12:14.780 --> 12:16.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, it's available on the net.
[12:16.440 --> 12:18.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think this guy minds if you download it.
[12:18.320 --> 12:20.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess there's no other way to actually listen to it.
[12:20.400 --> 12:21.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not in the stores yet.
[12:23.020 --> 12:23.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, yeah, we'll see.
[12:24.020 --> 12:26.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Does the song actually have a title that you know of?
[12:26.780 --> 12:27.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: No title.
[12:27.380 --> 12:28.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it...
[12:28.340 --> 12:29.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, actually, you know what?
[12:30.060 --> 12:32.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I saw a list of songs on the website myself.
[12:32.900 --> 12:37.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think it was, I guess it was just called the ECSS or something like that, because there are several other songs as well.
[12:37.820 --> 12:39.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet.
[12:40.280 --> 12:43.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, um, that's the latest as far as DCSS.
[12:44.340 --> 12:46.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Cypher Magi Productions present...
[12:47.420 --> 12:49.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: CSS underscore descramble.
[12:49.200 --> 12:50.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: You see, this is what I mean.
[12:50.780 --> 12:51.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is what's going to happen.
[12:51.820 --> 12:52.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: ...by Derek Fawkes.
[12:53.800 --> 12:55.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Read by Zader Vartek.
[12:57.820 --> 13:00.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Procedure CSS underscore descramble.
[13:03.120 --> 13:03.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Slash star.
[13:03.860 --> 13:04.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: That one's a lot more lively.
[13:05.020 --> 13:05.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[13:06.440 --> 13:07.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't even know where this is coming from.
[13:07.780 --> 13:13.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: It just, someone piped it into the studio, and all of a sudden we have it being read all over again.
[13:14.180 --> 13:15.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Two zero four eight bytes.
[13:16.560 --> 13:18.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, it's just, it's going to continue forever.
[13:18.880 --> 13:19.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: People are going to...
[13:19.340 --> 13:23.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I read the other day on the net that somebody posted it to all these USENET groups.
[13:23.680 --> 13:27.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Someone posted the ECSS code to USENET groups, you know, massively.
[13:27.860 --> 13:29.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, while that's, uh...
[13:29.560 --> 13:43.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: While that's interesting to see people, you know, engaging in, uh, I guess, a form of civil disobedience in that way, you're kind of preaching to the choir, because most of the people on USENET understand, uh, the importance of, uh, of this code, the importance of having...
[13:43.500 --> 13:43.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[13:43.600 --> 13:47.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: The guys in Rec Pets Aquarium may or may not be aware of...
[13:47.000 --> 13:49.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if it got posted to Rec Pets Aquarium.
[13:49.160 --> 13:51.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it got posted to a lot of computer news groups.
[13:51.100 --> 14:02.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, but the point is, how do you get people out there in the street, people walking around, people, you know, that, uh, all the cab drivers listen to us, or in the back seat, uh, right now, listen to this radio station for the first time, those people,
[14:02.920 --> 14:17.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: how do they understand the importance of the ECSS, what the ECSS is, and why it's, uh, it's a big, horrible, uh, mistake to say that it's illegal to post source code on a website, or even to link to websites that have source code on them.
[14:17.880 --> 14:19.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: And what does this source code do?
[14:19.760 --> 14:32.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it a, is it a, a tool to, uh, uh, to, to pirate DVDs, or is it, uh, something that allows you to play DVDs on Linux machines, allows you to get around stupidity, like, uh, having to watch commercials, you know?
[14:33.500 --> 14:39.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm hearing more and more from people, uh, that, that get new films, that they have to sit through all these commercials at the beginning.
[14:39.760 --> 14:40.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: They can't skip over them.
[14:40.940 --> 14:41.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, on the DVDs.
[14:41.620 --> 14:43.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they can't skip over the FBI warnings.
[14:44.180 --> 14:49.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then, of course, you know, you have the, the, the, the fair use, um, um, argument, which is a very important one.
[14:50.040 --> 14:51.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, that whole little thing in copyright law?
[14:52.680 --> 14:53.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I've heard about that.
[14:53.560 --> 14:58.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: It basically, you know, like, for instance, you could take, uh, a, a piece of, uh, The Wizard of Oz, right?
[14:59.520 --> 15:01.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And grab an image from that and put it on your webpage.
[15:01.600 --> 15:03.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Make that your, you know, the, the background to your webpage.
[15:04.060 --> 15:04.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's fair use.
[15:04.860 --> 15:05.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is.
[15:05.440 --> 15:06.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're not selling it.
[15:06.260 --> 15:07.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just something that you're doing.
[15:07.680 --> 15:09.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or make a poster to put up in your room.
[15:09.760 --> 15:11.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's what came to my head right now.
[15:11.660 --> 15:14.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: But with a DVD, you cannot do that if they disable that feature.
[15:14.600 --> 15:15.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, that you can...
[15:15.240 --> 15:15.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, sure you can.
[15:16.140 --> 15:16.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: How?
[15:16.420 --> 15:17.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: The judge told us how.
[15:17.340 --> 15:20.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have to go out and buy a VHS copy of The Wizard of Oz.
[15:20.260 --> 15:20.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right, right, yeah.
[15:20.560 --> 15:22.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And use that as your source material.
[15:22.260 --> 15:23.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go back in time.
[15:23.360 --> 15:27.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, there are more and more films that are coming out that don't have VHS equivalents.
[15:27.980 --> 15:28.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're only coming out on DVD.
[15:29.060 --> 15:35.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, not only that, all DVDs have additional things in them that are not included on the VHS version.
[15:35.260 --> 15:35.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh...
[15:35.400 --> 15:38.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nifty knickknacks, where you can choose what chapter you want to go to, and a little shuttlecraft.
[15:38.940 --> 15:42.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: This argument is going to get more and more preposterous as time goes on.
[15:43.760 --> 15:45.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, some good news today.
[15:45.140 --> 15:46.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if you heard about this yet, Isaac.
[15:46.780 --> 15:47.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good news?
[15:47.320 --> 15:48.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I never heard anything about it.
[15:48.220 --> 15:48.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good news.
[15:48.620 --> 15:53.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, basically, you know about the little situation we've had with Verizon.
[15:53.360 --> 15:55.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Verizon really sucks dot com.
[15:55.520 --> 15:56.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, that whole thing, yeah.
[15:56.300 --> 15:56.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Threatening us with a loss.
[15:56.920 --> 15:57.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: The other people who want to sue you.
[15:57.980 --> 15:58.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[15:58.440 --> 15:59.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they don't want to sue us anymore.
[15:59.820 --> 16:00.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't?
[16:00.140 --> 16:00.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, they...
[16:00.680 --> 16:05.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: In fact, I found out about this indirectly by reading the Washington Post.
[16:06.440 --> 16:12.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the whole article about various websites, including ones with the word sucks in them.
[16:14.720 --> 16:21.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Basically, it says how we tried to get verizonsucks.com, but Verizon beat us to it.
[16:21.480 --> 16:27.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they registered it by the company, which also registered 56 other self-critical names, according to the Washington Post.
[16:27.860 --> 16:31.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, 2600 registered verizonreallysucks.com.
[16:32.080 --> 16:42.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Shortly thereafter, the magazine received a letter accusing it of trademark infringement, violating the Anti-Cyber-Squatting Consumer Protection Act, and demanding the transfer of the unused domain name to Verizon under threat of suit.
[16:42.880 --> 16:47.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: The editors for 2600 fired back that this was a misapplication of the Anti-Squatting Act.
[16:48.000 --> 16:58.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: This law was designed to protect companies against those who would register their name and hold it for ransom, they responded, but this is a statement, an opinion, one which in no way would be confused with the actual name of the company.
[16:58.920 --> 17:03.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: The magazine essentially turned over its anti-Verizon domain name to the Communication Workers of America.
[17:04.100 --> 17:07.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: It now documents CWA's strike against Verizon.
[17:07.300 --> 17:18.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: The magazine called on other hackers to exercise their free speech rights by criticizing Verizon in domain names, and registered for itself, Verizon should spend more time fixing its network and less money on lawyers.com.
[17:19.540 --> 17:36.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: At this point, Verizon, confronted with websites like verizondoesreallysuck.com, verizonmonopolisticbastards.com, and dozens of others that can't be printed in a newspaper, and my eternal gratitude to the people that actually had the guts to stand up and do things like that.
[17:38.280 --> 17:41.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Verizon now says it is so sorry the whole thing happened.
[17:41.040 --> 17:49.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Its original goal was to act against 200 or so genuine cyber squatters who had registered Verizon-flavored names with the hope of selling them.
[17:50.200 --> 17:54.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Its legal department sent lawyerly warnings to everyone, including the Hacker magazine.
[17:55.240 --> 18:00.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: According to Verizon spokesman Larry Plum, it turned out 2600 was the one exception.
[18:00.340 --> 18:04.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Once we saw it met the standards of fair use, we decided not to pursue it.
[18:05.480 --> 18:10.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're out to defend our brand against confusion and dilution, not squelch free speech.
[18:11.040 --> 18:14.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know that Verizon-really-sucks confusion is...
[18:14.620 --> 18:19.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I would have thought they owned that, and they would set up their own critical...
[18:19.360 --> 18:21.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, I am asking.
[18:21.680 --> 18:23.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm asking Verizon right now.
[18:23.480 --> 18:24.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about that?
[18:24.240 --> 18:25.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about verizonsucks.com?
[18:25.580 --> 18:27.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you going to do something with it, or are you just going to sit on it?
[18:27.400 --> 18:30.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because if you're just sitting on it, that's cyber-squatting of a sense, too.
[18:30.400 --> 18:32.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because, you know, no pun intended.
[18:32.960 --> 18:36.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's basically, you know, you should use a website for something.
[18:36.520 --> 18:39.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if it's a critical website, let somebody criticize you.
[18:39.180 --> 18:41.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, you don't have to take the name and think someone's not going to criticize you.
[18:42.120 --> 18:49.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I think it would be a, you know, a good, you know, a nice thing to do to just release that name so people can criticize the company.
[18:49.680 --> 18:50.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is a very positive step.
[18:51.040 --> 18:53.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hope other companies will do the same thing.
[18:53.320 --> 18:53.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I really do.
[18:53.940 --> 18:56.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And also, I hope other people are not being harassed by Verizon now.
[18:57.660 --> 19:00.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've gotten some bits of mail.
[19:00.220 --> 19:01.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think you might have seen them, too.
[19:01.740 --> 19:02.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Things sent to OTH.
[19:03.060 --> 19:03.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yeah.
[19:09.180 --> 19:10.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go to them for $500,000.
[19:11.440 --> 19:12.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, that's the thing.
[19:12.480 --> 19:15.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: When you do that, you lose all credibility, you know.
[19:15.140 --> 19:17.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: All of a sudden, you're not engaged in freedom of speech.
[19:17.460 --> 19:22.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're engaged in blackmail or ransom or something bad like that.
[19:22.540 --> 19:24.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we can't support that.
[19:24.300 --> 19:25.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: How can we support it?
[19:25.040 --> 19:25.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: We never did.
[19:26.780 --> 19:35.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: So for those people who are out there criticizing things by sticking the word sucks at the end of it and actually putting something up that explains why that company sucks, great.
[19:35.720 --> 19:36.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's an expression.
[19:36.660 --> 19:45.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's usually helpful if you actually have some sort of content to deliver on that site rather than just out of the blue saying, you know, like, Isaacsucks.com and putting up a little picture of it.
[19:45.940 --> 19:46.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: You saw it, huh?
[19:47.800 --> 19:48.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, no.
[19:48.820 --> 19:49.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, that's a good site.
[19:49.720 --> 19:50.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is, it is.
[19:50.680 --> 19:50.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[19:51.260 --> 19:56.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, as long as it has actual criticism that's intelligently thought out, you know, let it be.
[19:56.160 --> 19:56.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who told you?
[19:56.940 --> 19:57.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: No one told me.
[19:58.000 --> 19:58.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh.
[19:58.940 --> 20:00.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I picked that one out of the blue.
[20:02.340 --> 20:04.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it was picked out specifically by somebody else.
[20:04.580 --> 20:05.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I see.
[20:05.280 --> 20:06.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have some work to do when I get home.
[20:06.920 --> 20:07.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[20:07.980 --> 20:11.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speaking of retractions, Fiber, they retracted something, didn't they?
[20:11.540 --> 20:12.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's in the studio.
[20:12.540 --> 20:13.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, here he is.
[20:13.280 --> 20:14.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm right here in the studio.
[20:14.440 --> 20:14.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[20:14.720 --> 20:15.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's pretty wild.
[20:15.380 --> 20:16.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do that or we got a really good phone connection.
[20:17.040 --> 20:17.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[20:18.580 --> 20:24.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we talked about Hacker News Network and At Stake and Loft and actually they're all the same people.
[20:24.560 --> 20:34.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, we talked last week about them, um, basically closing the door on your face after, after calling you into the, into the room, they closed the door as you were approaching the room.
[20:34.860 --> 20:41.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and, uh, then they misrepresented on HNN saying that, uh, you had applied for a job with them when they, in fact, had invited you.
[20:41.620 --> 20:45.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: They also made various references to, uh, tattoos and body piercings.
[20:46.140 --> 20:46.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[20:46.540 --> 20:48.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Which, which I don't have, so I don't know.
[20:49.200 --> 20:49.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[20:49.460 --> 21:09.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, um, yeah, uh, two days ago they, uh, they printed an errata, contributed by editor, so we don't know specifically who it was, says, in an article featured on September 4th describing recent recruiting experiences of hackers, we incorrectly characterized the initial contact between Mark Ibeni and At Stake,
[21:09.800 --> 21:09.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Inc.
[21:10.500 --> 21:17.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, At Stake contacted Mr. Ibeni first, through a typical recruiting cold call, we regret the error.
[21:17.940 --> 21:18.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cold call?
[21:18.540 --> 21:19.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cold call.
[21:19.280 --> 21:19.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[21:19.920 --> 21:23.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's where they just pick up the phone and call you and you have no idea they're calling.
[21:23.660 --> 21:24.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you have no defense?
[21:24.880 --> 21:25.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: No defense at all.
[21:25.680 --> 21:25.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[21:25.860 --> 21:26.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that's where it was, a cold call?
[21:26.940 --> 21:27.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a cold call.
[21:28.000 --> 21:28.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: How about that?
[21:28.700 --> 21:32.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then, I guess, subsequent, a few warm calls after that.
[21:33.180 --> 21:34.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, now, are you satisfied with this?
[21:35.380 --> 21:37.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I'm satisfied with it.
[21:37.280 --> 21:41.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, uh, I certainly, uh, aren't gonna hold a, a grudge against them.
[21:41.840 --> 22:03.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I think that this pretty much puts the, the immediate matter to rest, but it certainly doesn't address the, uh, larger problem of this, uh, this duality that, uh, corporations are, are, are, are putting forth, basically, out of one side of their mouth saying that they don't hire hackers and out of the other side of their mouth they're actually,
[22:03.700 --> 22:05.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: are hiring hackers.
[22:05.060 --> 22:09.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or just using the, the glory of being a hacker to promote a company.
[22:09.220 --> 22:09.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[22:09.540 --> 22:10.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or to promote a conference.
[22:10.820 --> 22:11.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[22:11.300 --> 22:11.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[22:11.760 --> 22:12.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, uh...
[22:12.660 --> 22:13.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cough, cough.
[22:13.780 --> 22:14.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[22:15.420 --> 22:21.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's, uh, sad but happy at the same time that, uh, I think you've been vindicated to a, to a degree.
[22:21.760 --> 22:21.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[22:22.020 --> 22:25.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I don't know how much more of this kind of garbage is gonna go on.
[22:25.460 --> 22:25.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[22:26.100 --> 22:28.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a tough thing.
[22:28.480 --> 22:36.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, the allure of, of money and fame and fortune and all that kind of thing is, it's a big temptation to a lot of people, but you gotta, you gotta think carefully.
[22:36.720 --> 22:40.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, are you selling out your values and your beliefs at the same time by going down that road?
[22:40.860 --> 22:42.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes you can do it without doing that.
[22:42.800 --> 22:44.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Other times you think you're doing that.
[22:45.040 --> 22:49.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then later on, it turns out that, uh, you know, you've become a different person that you didn't want to become.
[22:49.440 --> 22:53.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, so, um, I think it's good that, that this was revealed.
[22:54.540 --> 22:56.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe, uh, maybe it won't happen again.
[22:56.980 --> 23:03.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's, there, it goes back to that famous saying, what does it profit a man to gain the world if he loses his soul?
[23:03.920 --> 23:04.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: You hear that, Isaac?
[23:04.920 --> 23:05.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I heard that.
[23:05.860 --> 23:06.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[23:06.600 --> 23:07.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[23:07.360 --> 23:07.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Write that down.
[23:08.700 --> 23:09.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know it by heart.
[23:11.260 --> 23:11.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well.
[23:12.920 --> 23:13.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um.
[23:14.960 --> 23:16.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do, what else do we have here?
[23:16.540 --> 23:18.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hey, the, uh, the DECSS thing stopped.
[23:18.460 --> 23:18.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know what?
[23:19.000 --> 23:23.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think this CD it gave me was, I don't think it, it played all the way through.
[23:24.380 --> 23:25.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: These are the people speaking in it.
[23:26.060 --> 23:26.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[23:26.600 --> 23:26.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[23:26.980 --> 23:29.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think, uh, I think it's defective.
[23:30.460 --> 23:30.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Gasp.
[23:32.100 --> 23:32.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll start again.
[23:32.620 --> 23:34.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Cyber Magi Productions present.
[23:34.540 --> 23:34.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[23:35.160 --> 23:37.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, we'll, we'll just start, where'd you find that one?
[23:37.500 --> 23:44.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was, uh, well, I, I hopped on, uh, IRC of all places and said, uh, hey, anybody got that MP3 that's out there?
[23:44.780 --> 23:46.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: And someone sent it to me.
[23:46.440 --> 23:46.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[23:46.660 --> 23:49.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I didn't even hear it until I was actually in the lobby.
[23:49.180 --> 23:51.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I pressed it this afternoon.
[23:51.960 --> 23:52.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[23:54.300 --> 23:56.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: This function does the actual descrambling.
[23:58.020 --> 23:59.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: We, uh, we got a letter.
[24:00.360 --> 24:01.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Friber, I know you saw this.
[24:01.880 --> 24:02.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if you saw it, Isaac.
[24:03.340 --> 24:04.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, probably not.
[24:04.180 --> 24:04.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was sent to.
[24:05.080 --> 24:07.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if it was sent to a mailbox that you get mail at.
[24:07.940 --> 24:15.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, but basically, it's the first, that I've seen anyway, the first letter we've gotten that's not in support of us in DECSS.
[24:16.840 --> 24:22.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've seen, I've seen opinions against us, but I've never, I've never seen something sent to DVD at 2600.com.
[24:22.920 --> 24:33.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the first piece of mail I've seen that did not say, rock on guys, or, you know, down with the MPAA or whatever else, you know, that, uh, I guess it's the appropriate thing to say if you're on our side.
[24:34.240 --> 24:36.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, this person, though, was not on our side.
[24:36.880 --> 24:38.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: This guy had a real bug up his ass.
[24:38.560 --> 24:40.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, yeah, yeah, I guess you could say that.
[24:41.020 --> 24:43.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I see a staple in that, so I'm wondering how many pages long it is.
[24:43.980 --> 24:44.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's pretty long.
[24:44.580 --> 24:48.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna read all of it, because, uh, it sure goes on for quite a ways.
[24:48.780 --> 24:56.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, he quotes us, starts off, uh, for that reason, it's especially important that as many of you as possible all throughout the world take a stand and mirror these files.
[24:56.860 --> 24:59.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't do this because you just want to copy DVDs.
[24:59.200 --> 25:00.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not what this fight is all about.
[25:00.540 --> 25:06.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, this is about freedom of information, the right, uh, we all still have to learn how technology works.
[25:07.520 --> 25:09.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Then, uh, here's what this guy has to say.
[25:09.900 --> 25:17.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why do I think it's precisely because people want to copy DVDs and CD-ROMs and don't want to pay for them even before they make their pirated copies?
[25:17.380 --> 25:21.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hadn't heard of Napster until my teenage nephew asked me a few months ago, what do you think about Napster?
[25:22.100 --> 25:25.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the course of the ensuing discussion, he mentioned that CD-ROMs and DVDs are too expensive.
[25:26.040 --> 25:28.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why buy a cow if you can milk it through the fence?
[25:28.180 --> 25:31.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a reference boys make to pre-marital sex when I was a kid.
[25:31.620 --> 25:32.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you know that?
[25:32.840 --> 25:37.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Today, they've added, why buy a DVD or CD-ROM if you can get it for free on the Internet?
[25:37.500 --> 25:39.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or, why buy a DVD when I can make a copy of my buddies?
[25:40.460 --> 25:46.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why do I think it's precisely because people want to copy DVDs and CD-ROMs because, unlike the Scarecrow and the Wizard of Oz, I do have a brain?
[25:46.720 --> 25:48.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, that's the first point I want to debate.
[25:50.800 --> 25:54.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: This person has made all these accusations without any facts.
[25:54.420 --> 25:56.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's basically, well, you know, I think you're wrong.
[25:56.700 --> 25:58.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I said it like three or four times.
[25:58.320 --> 25:59.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think you're wrong.
[25:59.040 --> 25:59.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why do I think you're wrong?
[25:59.700 --> 26:02.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, let's see if we can find out why he thinks we're wrong.
[26:02.760 --> 26:03.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It would be nice.
[26:03.480 --> 26:04.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is not about freedom of information.
[26:05.700 --> 26:07.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, it's not about freedom of information.
[26:07.780 --> 26:08.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know it.
[26:08.440 --> 26:09.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know it.
[26:09.100 --> 26:09.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everyone knows it.
[26:10.260 --> 26:11.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Robert, you know it, right?
[26:11.140 --> 26:11.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isaac, you know it.
[26:11.840 --> 26:12.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know it.
[26:12.640 --> 26:13.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: We all know it.
[26:13.120 --> 26:15.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just don't think you can milk a cow through a face.
[26:16.280 --> 26:17.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think it can be done.
[26:17.880 --> 26:20.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you have to ask some teenagers about that back in the 50s or whatever.
[26:22.660 --> 26:25.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: The MPAA, the entertainment industry, and the judges damn well know it.
[26:26.020 --> 26:30.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's about theft, stealing, stealing intellectual property.
[26:30.680 --> 26:32.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: No more, no less.
[26:32.780 --> 26:38.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: You and your compadres want to benefit from the intellect, talent, and work of others without paying for it.
[26:39.140 --> 26:39.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: We do.
[26:39.940 --> 26:40.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what we want to do.
[26:40.920 --> 26:41.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: We just want to benefit.
[26:42.060 --> 26:44.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what it's all about, benefiting, without paying for it.
[26:45.300 --> 26:45.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right?
[26:46.300 --> 26:47.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: We want a free ride.
[26:47.940 --> 26:49.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't want to pay the fare.
[26:50.300 --> 26:51.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't want to pay the fee.
[26:51.460 --> 26:53.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Jump in the intellectual property turnstiles?
[26:54.240 --> 26:54.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[26:55.200 --> 26:57.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: You want the free ride of the 30s, 40s, and 50s.
[27:00.300 --> 27:02.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: He makes reference to the cow thing again.
[27:02.580 --> 27:04.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know what the thing is with the cows.
[27:04.400 --> 27:05.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: He really seems to like that a lot.
[27:05.960 --> 27:11.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: The people who download and use the ECSS want only the benefit of the use of the decrypting technology.
[27:11.620 --> 27:13.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: 0x, F, F, right bracket.
[27:14.440 --> 27:16.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: Less than, less than, A, right grand, bye.
[27:17.320 --> 27:19.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think your recording's getting a little...
[27:19.560 --> 27:20.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the end of it.
[27:21.960 --> 27:24.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It enables them to steal the intellectual property of others.
[27:25.000 --> 27:30.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: The developers may enjoy hackers' challenge, but the posters, mirrors, and linkers are scofflers and conspirators.
[27:30.700 --> 27:33.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Fellows who use fake Internet identities to mask who they are.
[27:33.560 --> 27:36.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Fake identities because they know what they are doing is wrong.
[27:36.020 --> 27:44.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like the cartoon burglar with his two days' growth of beard and his burglar's mask, but with facial features so striking, he's easy to identify through his little mask.
[27:44.420 --> 27:46.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hacker, cracker, safe cracker, burglar.
[27:46.480 --> 27:48.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not an illogical sequence.
[27:48.360 --> 27:48.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Murderer.
[27:50.120 --> 27:50.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Terrorist.
[27:50.600 --> 27:56.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wild, left paren, sec, bang, equal, end, right paren, left curly bracket.
[27:57.880 --> 28:03.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: D-E-C-S-S is one Internet equivalent to burglar's tools.
[28:04.140 --> 28:08.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you know you can be sent to prison for having burglar's tools in your possession at the wrong time and place, Isaac?
[28:08.800 --> 28:09.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[28:09.620 --> 28:15.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, you can go to jail for having a screwdriver in your pocket if, uh, regardless.
[28:15.380 --> 28:18.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, if the other end of it is attached to the insides of somebody else, yeah.
[28:18.380 --> 28:18.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[28:19.200 --> 28:25.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or if you manage to actually burgle a house, your screwdriver is considered a tool of burglary.
[28:25.160 --> 28:25.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[28:25.740 --> 28:26.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[28:26.240 --> 28:31.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, as you know, uh, you can be arrested in Philadelphia for having a cell phone.
[28:31.500 --> 28:32.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or for wearing a mask.
[28:32.940 --> 28:33.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: A mask.
[28:33.580 --> 28:34.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or making a puppet.
[28:34.400 --> 28:35.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Masks are illegal in New York, too.
[28:36.240 --> 28:36.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[28:36.620 --> 28:38.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Making a puppet or all kinds of things like that.
[28:38.180 --> 28:39.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, let's not go down that road.
[28:39.700 --> 28:41.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's not even get into backwards caps.
[28:41.460 --> 28:41.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[28:41.560 --> 28:41.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[28:42.140 --> 28:43.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, let's not do that again.
[28:44.060 --> 28:51.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Although, I gotta say, with the simplex locks protecting the house, if you've found breaking into a house with fingers, is that a burglary tool?
[28:52.040 --> 28:53.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or maybe a brain?
[28:53.500 --> 28:55.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Intelligence is a horrible thing.
[28:55.720 --> 29:00.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, um, yes, fellows who use fake Internet identities, um, not illogical sequence.
[29:01.120 --> 29:05.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, that's with some pretty common tools that are on the burglar's tools list.
[29:05.200 --> 29:11.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: I, for one, don't care to gamble that I wouldn't get charged as a conspirator and then convicted for selling the very specialized tools useful only to burglars.
[29:11.700 --> 29:17.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, I'm an adult and can't willfully do something as a minor and expect to get off with impunity, probation, or some other slap on the wrist.
[29:17.660 --> 29:25.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, the ones who care about the underlying principles of how the technology works, those who want to learn how technology works, are few and far between.
[29:26.240 --> 29:26.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately.
[29:26.600 --> 29:31.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Out of curiosity, I've executed a file named decss.exe built 10-12-99.
[29:32.440 --> 29:33.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's before we posted it.
[29:34.000 --> 29:40.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, the only way for me to learn about the underlying technology would be for me to reverse engineer decss.exe.
[29:41.260 --> 29:43.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, actually, that's not true because all the source is available, too.
[29:44.400 --> 29:46.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, I could do that, but I have no interest in doing so.
[29:51.520 --> 29:58.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, reverse engineering software is not the way to go if one is interested in learning about either cryptography or writing software.
[29:59.300 --> 29:59.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right?
[29:59.720 --> 30:01.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think that's something very important that people need to learn.
[30:01.540 --> 30:05.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're not going to learn much from crypto that you need to reverse engineer because it's probably not very good.
[30:05.820 --> 30:08.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Otherwise, it would, uh, undergo peer review.
[30:08.220 --> 30:11.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you can't learn anything about writing software by reverse engineering software.
[30:12.880 --> 30:13.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, well, of course.
[30:13.780 --> 30:14.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: You must be right.
[30:14.440 --> 30:14.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[30:14.900 --> 30:15.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's the point.
[30:15.720 --> 30:16.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know about that one.
[30:16.040 --> 30:16.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the point he's making.
[30:16.720 --> 30:17.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, he must be right.
[30:17.700 --> 30:19.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: This gentleman is enlightened.
[30:20.140 --> 30:22.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I don't want to read this whole thing because it just goes on forever.
[30:22.940 --> 30:24.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you familiar with the word consistency?
[30:24.760 --> 30:25.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Ah, here we go.
[30:25.320 --> 30:29.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it's about freedom of information, why do you bother with copyright notices on your own webpages?
[30:29.580 --> 30:32.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here we go again with the Judge Kaplan MPAA argument here.
[30:34.360 --> 30:36.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why bother with a copyright at all?
[30:36.500 --> 30:37.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Make your site public domain.
[30:38.440 --> 30:39.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll give you this.
[30:39.220 --> 30:45.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: It takes audacity to post an all rights reserved notice on your site, given that you're encouraging people to ignore the copyrights others hold and are trying to protect.
[30:46.040 --> 30:47.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're encouraging people to break the law.
[30:47.520 --> 30:51.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Any words on your site to the effect that we're not going to tell people what they should do are bogus.
[30:51.300 --> 30:55.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: You start the very sentence containing that quote telling people what you wanted to do.
[30:55.640 --> 30:56.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Case closed.
[30:56.620 --> 30:59.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Although it wasn't closed because there's a few PESs and PPSs afterwards.
[30:59.860 --> 31:07.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, again, for the last time, the copyright is to protect a piece of work from being sold, from being reproduced in its entirety.
[31:07.840 --> 31:14.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can make all kinds of conditions within that as far as like the distribution and say, you know, you can distribute whatever you want.
[31:14.840 --> 31:16.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: As long as you give credit, you can say that.
[31:16.980 --> 31:31.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: But what is happening with the DMCA, Digital Millennium Copyright Act, is that all kinds of additional things are being included with copyright that I don't think was ever the intention when copyright was first started, things saying how you may play something back,
[31:31.720 --> 31:39.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: when you may play something back, where you can play it back, things like that that really are physically impossible to do in the analog world.
[31:39.840 --> 31:44.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the only reason we're seeing it in the digital world is because more control can be enforced there.
[31:45.760 --> 31:53.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: And to say we're breaking the law simply by, you know, by telling people how something works, it's really simple-minded, I think.
[31:54.200 --> 31:55.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, here are some afterthoughts.
[31:56.800 --> 32:08.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, let's see, I just want to get, uh, get to the, uh, oh yeah, first of all, the MPAA has very, very deep pockets as to their spending Boku bucks to fight this all over the world.
[32:08.640 --> 32:09.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: They won't have to do that.
[32:09.440 --> 32:12.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: All they need is a couple of successes, sending a few of you lads to prison.
[32:12.560 --> 32:14.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: You see the succession in thought now?
[32:14.540 --> 32:15.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now we're going to prison.
[32:15.600 --> 32:16.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now we're criminals.
[32:16.300 --> 32:18.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's, that's where it was all about.
[32:18.440 --> 32:24.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, the people who are dealing with this program aren't really the ones who are violating copyright.
[32:24.820 --> 32:31.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you have the folks down in Southeast Asia that are buying the single DVD and pumping out like 5,000 copies.
[32:31.160 --> 32:34.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now the MPAA has an ironclad case against them.
[32:34.220 --> 32:37.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're actually selling this stuff and making money and they can be brought in.
[32:37.540 --> 32:45.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the intent here is to bring a few low-grade folks in, uh, deal with the other side of the picture, which may or may not be illegal, well, regardless.
[32:45.800 --> 32:46.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've beaten this horse to death.
[32:47.320 --> 32:50.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not to mention what will happen to them once they're in prison with the big boys.
[32:50.620 --> 32:53.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: My advice, get you butt out while you can, while you still have one.
[32:53.180 --> 32:55.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: You see, it's, it's always the same stupidity.
[32:55.700 --> 32:58.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, because everyone who ever goes to prison is automatically anally raped.
[32:59.120 --> 32:59.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[32:59.720 --> 33:03.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's just the rule, as television would, would tell you.
[33:03.280 --> 33:06.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: You notice how they always use that to try and get you in line, you know?
[33:06.540 --> 33:06.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[33:07.400 --> 33:07.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Unbelievable.
[33:08.840 --> 33:17.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I'm not sure who is giving you advice on this, but your 830-00 addition to your site shows contempt for the court ruling and the judge who made it.
[33:18.140 --> 33:20.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Perhaps you don't know just how powerful judges are.
[33:20.820 --> 33:24.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Appeal their decision if you want to, but don't go public telling them how ill-advised their rulings were.
[33:25.780 --> 33:28.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right, now we can't speak our minds.
[33:28.300 --> 33:29.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're not, we can't criticize.
[33:29.540 --> 33:32.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can't say somebody is wrong because that's illegal now, too.
[33:33.280 --> 33:37.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not a lawyer, though, so maybe you can be found in contempt of court only for what you do and say in the courtroom itself.
[33:38.240 --> 33:39.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about the conspiracy angle?
[33:39.580 --> 33:40.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Conspiracy to commit a crime.
[33:40.760 --> 33:45.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have no doubt that there are files in your computer that could be used as evidence against you and your buddies should you so be charged.
[33:45.540 --> 33:48.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Better get some good disc-cleaning software to scour your hard drives.
[33:48.560 --> 33:52.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I think we send a few jackbooted thugs over, you know, pull the thing out of there.
[33:52.340 --> 33:53.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Warrant, what's that?
[33:53.800 --> 33:54.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wonderful, okay.
[33:55.120 --> 33:56.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I like this man's world.
[33:56.340 --> 33:57.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: It just keeps getting worse and worse.
[33:58.240 --> 34:00.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this is the first letter we got.
[34:00.400 --> 34:02.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just figured I'd devote some time to it, you know.
[34:02.880 --> 34:07.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've probably gotten well over a thousand letters from people writing to us.
[34:07.780 --> 34:09.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it's probably a lot more than that, actually.
[34:10.140 --> 34:11.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: My mailbox is so completely clogged.
[34:11.820 --> 34:16.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: DVD at 2600.com is the address that we've given out over the last few months concerning this.
[34:16.940 --> 34:19.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the first letter we've gotten from somebody who really thinks we're wrong.
[34:19.780 --> 34:20.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's good.
[34:20.520 --> 34:22.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's sort of like with the free Kevin people.
[34:23.080 --> 34:26.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Occasionally you get somebody who says, no, keep Kevin in jail for the rest of his life.
[34:26.920 --> 34:27.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, execute him.
[34:27.640 --> 34:30.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they always got so completely irrational.
[34:30.700 --> 34:31.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: That just made you feel good.
[34:31.900 --> 34:33.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: You knew you were on the right side.
[34:33.320 --> 34:39.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, he pulls together a lot of very common arguments, such as, well, why are you hiding your name?
[34:40.380 --> 34:40.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: What is it?
[34:42.120 --> 34:42.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: What have you done?
[34:43.400 --> 34:44.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jeez, I can't remember.
[34:44.560 --> 34:47.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think this guy wants me to read his name over the air, so I'm not going to.
[34:47.080 --> 34:50.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, of course, but the idea is that... Oh, come on, read it.
[34:50.460 --> 34:51.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I'm not going to do that.
[34:51.360 --> 34:53.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're a law-abiding citizen, why are you hiding?
[34:54.160 --> 34:59.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, the classic 60 Minutes sort of Barbara Wawa.
[35:00.100 --> 35:02.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, if you're an upstanding citizen, why are you hiding?
[35:02.340 --> 35:03.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, very simplistic.
[35:03.620 --> 35:07.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, Edward Meese is basically the one that said if you're not guilty, you've got nothing to hide.
[35:07.880 --> 35:08.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Exactly.
[35:08.540 --> 35:09.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
[35:10.060 --> 35:11.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: He goes over a lot of the things.
[35:11.940 --> 35:16.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: The milking cow through the fence thing is the new twist.
[35:16.840 --> 35:18.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I didn't know about that, actually.
[35:18.760 --> 35:19.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nor did I.
[35:19.500 --> 35:21.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I must have missed that whole cultural part of this country's development.
[35:22.800 --> 35:23.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209.
[35:23.960 --> 35:24.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Cow tipping.
[35:24.660 --> 35:25.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I knew about cow tipping.
[35:25.340 --> 35:25.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Cow tipping.
[35:25.940 --> 35:28.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[35:28.280 --> 35:31.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess we can take phone calls and any... What are you pointing at?
[35:33.180 --> 35:43.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: The attorneys for Metallica and Dr. Dre sent a letter to 11 presidents of universities the other day asking them to ban Napster at their schools.
[35:44.300 --> 35:44.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[35:45.940 --> 35:47.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're just not stopping, are they?
[35:47.460 --> 35:47.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[35:48.260 --> 35:48.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[35:48.880 --> 35:57.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: I heard about the guy that one of the Napster people presented an award at the MTV Awards last week and was like boot off the stage or something.
[35:57.120 --> 35:58.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: All these people were leaving.
[35:58.520 --> 35:59.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: They just walked out.
[36:00.100 --> 36:06.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, this is the first year I can think of where I just didn't care at all about the MTV Awards, about the music industry in general.
[36:06.980 --> 36:07.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's so disgusting.
[36:08.060 --> 36:08.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[36:09.120 --> 36:12.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I can't imagine why someone would even want to participate in that.
[36:13.180 --> 36:18.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, last year the big thing that we were upset about at this time was the MTV special on hackers.
[36:19.180 --> 36:19.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Remember that?
[36:20.240 --> 36:21.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I remember that.
[36:21.500 --> 36:22.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: That was a big deal to us then.
[36:22.980 --> 36:24.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Look how much has happened since then.
[36:24.480 --> 36:26.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Look at all the garbage that's going on.
[36:27.960 --> 36:29.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I don't know.
[36:29.340 --> 36:29.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[36:30.440 --> 36:31.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's madness.
[36:32.240 --> 36:39.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: So they're filing more petitions, more court papers to... is it... This is just a nasty threat letter.
[36:39.600 --> 36:44.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: But what's interesting is that the corporation is trying to dictate university policy.
[36:44.640 --> 36:45.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I know.
[36:45.680 --> 36:46.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Which is insane.
[36:46.640 --> 36:47.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they already do.
[36:47.820 --> 37:00.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you know, basically there are a lot of... and I invite people to call in and give us examples of this, but there are a lot of universities out there that are sponsored by corporations so much so that they basically define it, this is a Pepsi university.
[37:02.740 --> 37:03.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: What's that?
[37:03.540 --> 37:06.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: On the back of my student ID is a nice Citibank logo.
[37:07.060 --> 37:07.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're kidding.
[37:07.660 --> 37:09.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, student ID has a Citibank logo on it?
[37:09.320 --> 37:09.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me see that.
[37:09.980 --> 37:11.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's probably also a debit card.
[37:12.160 --> 37:15.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: It can be turned into a debit card at your local friendly Citibank.
[37:15.680 --> 37:16.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, what if... Okay.
[37:16.320 --> 37:18.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mostly, it requires a Citibank logo.
[37:18.660 --> 37:19.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, hold on a second.
[37:19.700 --> 37:21.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Much like the MasterCard logo next to it.
[37:21.060 --> 37:21.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on a second.
[37:21.840 --> 37:23.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: What if you don't have a bank account at all?
[37:23.740 --> 37:24.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you still get one of these cards?
[37:24.980 --> 37:25.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[37:25.260 --> 37:30.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: So you still get a Citibank logo even if you don't have a bank account or any money whatsoever.
[37:30.440 --> 37:31.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Would you like me to know the most?
[37:31.700 --> 37:35.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or if you have an account with the Federal Credit Union.
[37:35.280 --> 37:35.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[37:35.420 --> 37:37.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a non-profit institution at the school.
[37:37.920 --> 37:43.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's say Citibank massacred your family somewhere and, you know, you hate Citibank more...
[37:43.340 --> 37:43.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where are you going?
[37:44.080 --> 37:46.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm just making a theoretical, you know, example here.
[37:46.920 --> 37:49.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's just say that Citibank to you is the antichrist.
[37:49.760 --> 37:50.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's offensive.
[37:50.560 --> 37:53.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: The very logo of Citibank makes you wretch in horror.
[37:54.240 --> 38:02.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: When you go to Columbia University, you're forced to have a Citibank logo on your card, even though you want nothing to do with them and you don't do business with them at all.
[38:02.120 --> 38:02.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that right?
[38:02.660 --> 38:03.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Tape it over.
[38:03.800 --> 38:04.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Tape it over?
[38:04.880 --> 38:05.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Tape it over?
[38:05.800 --> 38:06.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's your solution to life?
[38:07.100 --> 38:07.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Tape it over?
[38:07.820 --> 38:08.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Fine.
[38:08.280 --> 38:08.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: White it out.
[38:09.100 --> 38:09.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you want?
[38:10.380 --> 38:12.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think I want corporations off-campuses.
[38:12.840 --> 38:13.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what I want.
[38:13.300 --> 38:17.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: The other half of the student body is going to be complaining about how, well, you know, the guys at NYU can use their IDs as a debit card.
[38:18.700 --> 38:20.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, why can't people get debit cards?
[38:20.840 --> 38:23.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't understand why it has to be married to a university.
[38:23.120 --> 38:24.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't make sense to me.
[38:24.500 --> 38:25.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: What does it matter?
[38:25.420 --> 38:26.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Listen, you have this thing called tuition.
[38:26.860 --> 38:28.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: You pay for the university that way.
[38:28.460 --> 38:29.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You don't need corporations paying for it.
[38:29.980 --> 38:33.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you do have corporations paying for it, then let's let the people in for free.
[38:33.260 --> 38:33.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about that?
[38:33.780 --> 38:39.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can have corporate universities and then just open up admissions, and then, you know, all the poor people can get education, too.
[38:40.040 --> 38:41.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we can thank Citibank for it.
[38:41.700 --> 38:44.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you can have all the people in the dorms pay for every meal with cash.
[38:44.940 --> 38:46.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you can do all these other wonderful things.
[38:46.640 --> 38:47.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: But guess what?
[38:47.260 --> 38:51.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: The students want these kind of services so they don't have to play with dimes and nickels and bills.
[38:52.180 --> 38:54.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know anyone who uses the service.
[38:54.840 --> 38:55.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: No one uses the service?
[38:56.020 --> 38:57.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isaac says you want this.
[38:57.500 --> 38:58.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't.
[38:58.400 --> 38:59.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's why they come in.
[38:59.740 --> 39:00.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you vote for this?
[39:01.260 --> 39:02.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you ever asked?
[39:02.240 --> 39:06.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you know how much it costs the university to participate in a program like this?
[39:07.020 --> 39:08.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: I would hope it doesn't cost anything.
[39:09.100 --> 39:12.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: I would hope they receive large influx of cash.
[39:13.060 --> 39:17.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just don't understand why it's necessary to have these corporations married to universities and high schools now, too.
[39:18.000 --> 39:22.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, basically, I've heard of kids getting in trouble for drinking the wrong soft drink in high schools.
[39:22.760 --> 39:26.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, they have like a Coke day, and someone wears a Pepsi shirt, and they get in trouble.
[39:26.800 --> 39:27.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, that's sickness.
[39:27.860 --> 39:28.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[39:28.280 --> 39:37.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: And go all the way back to the 50s again with Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex and how they're getting way too attached to our colleges and universities and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[39:37.520 --> 39:38.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Point is, it's irrelevant.
[39:39.780 --> 39:41.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Military-industrial complex is not irrelevant.
[39:41.680 --> 39:42.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: But that's not even this argument.
[39:42.780 --> 39:49.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the corporate-industrial complex, which I think is far more insidious and a lot more powerful.
[39:49.040 --> 39:50.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: But let's hear from our listeners.
[39:50.700 --> 39:54.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900, if you've had experiences like that, I'd sure like to know about them.
[39:56.340 --> 39:57.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's rather disturbing.
[39:58.280 --> 40:00.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, that's the Rebel Line.
[40:00.600 --> 40:00.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's go over there.
[40:01.220 --> 40:01.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[40:01.640 --> 40:02.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[40:03.520 --> 40:03.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, yes.
[40:04.100 --> 40:04.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello?
[40:04.560 --> 40:05.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speak up, please.
[40:06.440 --> 40:07.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, yes.
[40:07.120 --> 40:07.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi.
[40:07.320 --> 40:09.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: I have a question about the DECSS.
[40:09.780 --> 40:10.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[40:10.260 --> 40:14.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because I was wondering if 900 MHz owns you, because 900 MHz...
[40:14.600 --> 40:15.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[40:15.240 --> 40:17.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: We had this guy on last week.
[40:17.140 --> 40:17.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[40:17.500 --> 40:17.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[40:18.480 --> 40:19.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hey, Emmanuel, Isaac.
[40:20.320 --> 40:20.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: How you doing?
[40:20.960 --> 40:21.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: And Fiber out there.
[40:22.080 --> 40:23.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know who else is in the background there.
[40:23.940 --> 40:24.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's Tommy Pickles.
[40:25.100 --> 40:25.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[40:25.780 --> 40:26.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Formerly of MTV.
[40:27.000 --> 40:31.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I wish I was still there, because then I'd be broadcasting all about this DECSS thing.
[40:31.960 --> 40:32.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[40:32.640 --> 40:33.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right, they just let you broadcast.
[40:33.940 --> 40:36.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: They just let you take over the airwaves, or cable waves, whatever they are.
[40:36.840 --> 40:49.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: But, you know, I still don't understand the public about this DECSS thing, because, ah, it's so easy, even if you don't DECSS, because on compact computers, their original DVD player lets you even open files up from your hard drive.
[40:49.740 --> 40:52.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: So you can just open up all those iPhone ISOs.
[40:53.820 --> 40:55.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Be a little more specific here.
[40:55.520 --> 41:00.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, you just look at your DVD drive, you know, without double-clicking on it.
[41:00.260 --> 41:01.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: Just go right-click, open.
[41:02.040 --> 41:04.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: You see all the files that a DVD is made of.
[41:04.780 --> 41:04.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[41:05.260 --> 41:06.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: And you can open up any of them.
[41:07.140 --> 41:08.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is on what kind of a computer?
[41:09.300 --> 41:11.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: So this was on the compact Berserios.
[41:11.380 --> 41:13.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think this is on anything with Windows.
[41:13.380 --> 41:14.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, because...
[41:14.020 --> 41:15.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, I mean, like, God forbid.
[41:15.880 --> 41:21.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, my God, now I can drop these four-and-a-half-gig files to my desktop and trade them that way.
[41:21.440 --> 41:21.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, yeah, of course.
[41:22.220 --> 41:23.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the point we've been...
[41:23.100 --> 41:23.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: Why would I use DECSS at all?
[41:23.900 --> 41:26.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the point we've been trying to make all summer, and it was lost.
[41:26.660 --> 41:31.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, basically, you can take those, however big they are, files, copy them, and simply trade them on the net that way.
[41:31.880 --> 41:35.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And as long as somebody has a DVD player, yes, it will decrypt them.
[41:35.280 --> 41:36.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm on my Linux PC.
[41:36.940 --> 41:39.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: I could see the files, but I can't play them?
[41:40.920 --> 41:41.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wait a second.
[41:41.740 --> 41:42.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: What's going on here?
[41:42.720 --> 41:43.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's get DECSS.
[41:43.620 --> 41:46.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, DECSS makes my DVD player work now.
[41:46.620 --> 41:47.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that how you say it?
[41:47.440 --> 41:47.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: DECSS?
[41:47.980 --> 41:48.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it a word now?
[41:48.760 --> 41:49.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's DECSS.
[41:49.220 --> 41:49.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[41:49.780 --> 41:52.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's just easier than D-E-C-S-S.
[41:52.740 --> 41:54.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it was said many different ways in court.
[41:54.380 --> 41:58.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I heard people saying D-E-C-S, D-C-S, you know, but...
[41:58.200 --> 41:59.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Who are you going to trust, them or me?
[41:59.400 --> 41:59.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[41:59.760 --> 42:03.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it would be nice just to have a standard so we know what we're talking about.
[42:03.620 --> 42:06.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're going to just pirate all the standards anyway.
[42:06.400 --> 42:06.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[42:07.360 --> 42:12.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: The other thing is, on a personal note, did Johnny X ever email you about the freedom downtime thing?
[42:13.940 --> 42:15.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't remember.
[42:15.340 --> 42:16.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm trying definitely...
[42:16.640 --> 42:17.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[42:17.480 --> 42:19.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is this for Freaknik?
[42:19.000 --> 42:19.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Freaknik, yeah.
[42:19.660 --> 42:21.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I think I saw an email.
[42:21.680 --> 42:25.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have not responded to it yet, but yeah, we'd love to show it at Freaknik, which is taking place when?
[42:26.920 --> 42:27.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: November 3rd.
[42:27.840 --> 42:30.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: It'll be at the Days Inn right near the airport there.
[42:31.120 --> 42:33.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Information is on Freaknik.org.
[42:33.160 --> 42:35.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's with a P-H because I guess we're all, you know...
[42:35.980 --> 42:37.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's in Nashville, right?
[42:37.560 --> 42:37.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're all kinetic.
[42:38.400 --> 42:39.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, that's in Nashville.
[42:40.060 --> 42:40.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[42:40.660 --> 42:42.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: November 3rd, the weekend of...
[42:42.380 --> 42:46.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think it's the weekend after PumpCon, so it's not going to interfere this year.
[42:47.220 --> 42:50.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: So all the little drunkards want to go get drunk, they can do that.
[42:50.460 --> 42:52.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: And then all the hackers can go to Freaknik, I guess.
[42:52.660 --> 42:53.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, it's...
[42:53.240 --> 42:54.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just keep stumbling south.
[42:54.100 --> 42:55.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not about getting drunk, it's about learning.
[42:56.040 --> 42:57.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's about, you know, trading information.
[42:57.940 --> 43:00.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, learning to get drunk at PumpCon, I'm sorry.
[43:02.080 --> 43:03.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, I'll let you kids go.
[43:03.520 --> 43:05.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I have learned things at PumpCon, though.
[43:05.920 --> 43:06.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: I did.
[43:06.500 --> 43:08.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I forget where they were, but I definitely learned something.
[43:08.700 --> 43:09.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's telling.
[43:10.280 --> 43:11.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[43:13.020 --> 43:13.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello?
[43:13.660 --> 43:14.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, go ahead.
[43:14.480 --> 43:14.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah.
[43:16.600 --> 43:19.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: The end of the world as we know it has finally arrived.
[43:20.060 --> 43:29.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yesterday's Wall Street Journal, page B1, the eWorld column by Thomas Weber, has an article entitled Protecting Copyrights, How E-Books Will Be Like Parking Readers.
[43:30.000 --> 43:32.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just read a couple of paragraphs.
[43:32.780 --> 43:33.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isaac, read with him.
[43:34.100 --> 43:36.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isaac has the same article, and you're going to read at the same time.
[43:36.980 --> 43:37.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, good.
[43:38.140 --> 43:40.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought Isaac did not obtain that.
[43:40.700 --> 43:41.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I did indeed.
[43:41.920 --> 43:42.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you for it.
[43:42.780 --> 43:44.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: When you ask Isaac to obtain something, he obtains it.
[43:45.160 --> 43:47.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll let Isaac comment on this, then.
[43:48.780 --> 43:49.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, go ahead.
[43:49.440 --> 43:50.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's get the gist of it out.
[43:50.640 --> 43:53.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Imagine a book that you can't sell, give away, or even lend to a friend.
[43:53.880 --> 44:01.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Imagine that this book refuses to wait patiently on your shelf, but instead demands money from time to time and threatens to self-destruct if you don't cough up the dough.
[44:02.000 --> 44:04.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: That book is here, and it's filled with pictures of teeth.
[44:04.400 --> 44:09.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a new kind of electronic textbook for dental students being introduced right now at New York University and other schools.
[44:10.160 --> 44:15.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Packing thousands of pages onto a glittering DVD disc, the e-book offers impressive potential for learning.
[44:15.720 --> 44:20.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: But to safeguard it against copying, the book's creators have built in all kinds of restrictions as well.
[44:20.360 --> 44:26.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is actually something that's a few weeks old, and Wall Street Journal seems to have gotten around to it, finally.
[44:26.540 --> 44:31.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, basically, this involves books for the school of dentistry that are electronic in nature.
[44:31.340 --> 44:39.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The electronic in nature, you spend about $5,000, I believe the article says, over the course of your education in order to have access to the book.
[44:39.980 --> 44:40.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[44:40.460 --> 44:43.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And when you stop paying, it stopped working.
[44:43.340 --> 44:43.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[44:43.800 --> 44:44.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And also...
[44:44.600 --> 44:46.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: You graduate, and your book no longer there.
[44:46.480 --> 44:54.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, there's something in there, too, from the company that makes this, about showing it to other people, and you're not allowed to do that.
[44:54.400 --> 44:54.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a violation.
[44:54.660 --> 45:02.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it's also required by the course that you purchase it, because they're still worried about people trying to bypass whatever security they have in this thing.
[45:02.620 --> 45:06.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they're removing the second-hand market by requiring everyone to have a copy.
[45:07.200 --> 45:10.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: They say it's a violation of the law to actually show this to another person.
[45:10.440 --> 45:10.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wonderful.
[45:11.120 --> 45:11.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isn't that amazing?
[45:11.860 --> 45:12.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's basically...
[45:12.720 --> 45:15.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the next step from this whole DVD thing.
[45:15.820 --> 45:18.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's the same Digital Millennium Copyright Act that allows them to do this.
[45:18.720 --> 45:19.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it's...
[45:19.380 --> 45:24.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, people are asking, well, how does this affect me, you know, if I don't want to play a DVD on a Linux system?
[45:24.140 --> 45:25.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is how it affects you.
[45:25.200 --> 45:32.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the kind of crap you're going to be dealing with for ages to come, until this kind of thing is marked as wrong.
[45:32.360 --> 45:33.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Most definitely.
[45:33.560 --> 45:34.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Caller, any more comments on this?
[45:34.640 --> 45:40.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is the first millimeter of the sea level rising, and eventually it will be Waterworld.
[45:41.060 --> 45:42.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Every book will be like this.
[45:43.540 --> 45:44.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Pretty sad.
[45:44.660 --> 45:44.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[45:45.160 --> 45:46.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, thanks for depressing us.
[45:46.580 --> 45:48.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to move on.
[45:48.580 --> 45:54.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's funny, because that was posted all over the net, and the NYU FAQ about this went down.
[45:54.360 --> 45:55.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not up anymore.
[45:55.360 --> 45:56.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know why they took it down.
[45:56.440 --> 45:57.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it was slash dotted.
[45:57.500 --> 45:57.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[45:57.920 --> 46:00.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: But no, it wasn't like you couldn't reach it.
[46:00.300 --> 46:01.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: The file was taken away.
[46:01.420 --> 46:02.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not there anymore.
[46:02.660 --> 46:04.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: So maybe it was just wrong.
[46:04.060 --> 46:05.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe they changed something.
[46:05.200 --> 46:07.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe they're backing out of the whole thing.
[46:07.200 --> 46:10.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll tell you, the thing that can make this kind of garbage go away is public pressure.
[46:11.040 --> 46:13.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, public pressure made Verizon back down.
[46:13.500 --> 46:16.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Public pressure is what will win in any particular case.
[46:16.840 --> 46:20.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is a good example where it's early enough, people can still object.
[46:21.460 --> 46:22.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: NYU is one school doing this.
[46:23.020 --> 46:24.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is Columbia doing this yet?
[46:24.640 --> 46:25.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not to my knowledge.
[46:25.880 --> 46:26.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[46:26.300 --> 46:27.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you better check up.
[46:27.260 --> 46:28.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're planning it.
[46:28.660 --> 46:31.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if any other school out there is doing something like this, we want to know about it.
[46:31.660 --> 46:32.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[46:32.300 --> 46:32.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's go over here.
[46:32.880 --> 46:33.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[46:33.180 --> 46:33.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[46:34.760 --> 46:35.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[46:35.300 --> 46:35.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Great show.
[46:36.380 --> 46:36.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[46:36.880 --> 46:47.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: About two years ago, I was told by computer engineers that the DVD will be the main computer backup.
[46:48.380 --> 46:51.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.
[46:51.080 --> 46:54.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know if anybody has hooked it up yet?
[46:54.500 --> 46:55.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: What, DVD-RW?
[46:55.700 --> 46:55.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[46:56.420 --> 46:56.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[46:57.200 --> 46:57.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Exists.
[46:58.000 --> 46:59.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's very expensive, right?
[46:59.960 --> 47:00.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[47:00.280 --> 47:01.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's like 50 bucks a CD or something.
[47:02.020 --> 47:02.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[47:02.360 --> 47:02.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: For a blank.
[47:02.740 --> 47:04.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: But some, it's got to come down.
[47:05.100 --> 47:05.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[47:05.600 --> 47:06.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, eventually.
[47:06.400 --> 47:11.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Much like the early CD-Rs and the CD-R media were fairly expensive.
[47:11.020 --> 47:12.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't take too long.
[47:12.960 --> 47:14.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there are always other options.
[47:15.040 --> 47:15.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, yeah.
[47:16.080 --> 47:16.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[47:16.360 --> 47:16.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[47:16.980 --> 47:18.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, thanks for the great show.
[47:18.380 --> 47:19.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for calling.
[47:19.220 --> 47:19.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[47:19.720 --> 47:19.820]  Bye.
[47:20.240 --> 47:22.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[47:22.900 --> 47:23.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[47:23.760 --> 47:24.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[47:26.100 --> 47:26.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speak up.
[47:27.500 --> 47:27.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[47:28.040 --> 47:28.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[47:29.000 --> 47:29.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[47:30.060 --> 47:30.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[47:30.580 --> 47:37.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just wanted to relate some of my experiences at Penn State University regarding corporation funding and things like that.
[47:37.960 --> 47:38.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[47:38.320 --> 47:39.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is Penn State where?
[47:39.300 --> 47:42.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Penn State University in Pennsylvania.
[47:42.580 --> 47:43.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[47:43.500 --> 47:46.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Home of the football team, the Nittany Lions is probably what they're best known for.
[47:46.980 --> 47:47.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[47:47.180 --> 47:47.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[47:48.180 --> 47:50.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, Penn State's a Pepsi school.
[47:50.940 --> 47:51.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, it is.
[47:51.840 --> 48:05.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And on campus, there was a very vocal, uh, very vocal sort of movement that protested a lot of Pepsi's human rights, possible violations taking place in foreign countries and things like that.
[48:05.380 --> 48:05.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[48:05.620 --> 48:20.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and, and I guess probably the thing that kind of surprised me was that there wasn't, I never felt there was much response from the administration, uh, towards the student movements, uh, against Pepsi, sort of.
[48:20.740 --> 48:26.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I mean, people were saying Pepsi's bad and the administration just kind of tended to ignore it.
[48:26.780 --> 48:30.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I thought it was an idea to deal with the issue or anything else like that.
[48:31.020 --> 48:32.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Isaac, you had a question, Isaac?
[48:32.140 --> 48:35.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did the students come up with any means by which to substantiate any of these claims?
[48:36.820 --> 48:39.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, ah, boy, you know, I mean, I wasn't really...
[48:39.040 --> 48:44.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: You just, like, dropped this fact, or an apparent fact, that, uh, Pepsi is abusing people in third world nations.
[48:45.080 --> 48:45.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: How?
[48:45.540 --> 48:45.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where?
[48:46.080 --> 48:46.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: When?
[48:46.660 --> 48:46.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who?
[48:47.860 --> 48:48.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[48:48.320 --> 48:49.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I'm sure, I, I wouldn't know.
[48:49.800 --> 48:54.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: First of all, first of all, first of all, first of all, Isaac, you're being unfair here because this guy's just reporting what was there.
[48:54.220 --> 48:57.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's not necessarily one of the people that, uh, you know, that was saying these kind of things.
[48:58.080 --> 49:06.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Second of all, I've seen people in these kind of demonstrations, they have all the facts you could possibly want, you know, read a handout, go to a website that it's out there.
[49:06.740 --> 49:07.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[49:07.140 --> 49:12.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can't be responsible if, if you don't want to look into this kind of stuff, but it's out there.
[49:12.500 --> 49:13.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's everywhere.
[49:13.440 --> 49:13.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry.
[49:14.160 --> 49:15.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Another $1,500 in tuition.
[49:15.800 --> 49:16.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Caller, go ahead.
[49:17.100 --> 49:17.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:17.440 --> 49:24.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I mean, I just wanted to, um, I think also there was, I think that Nike sponsors the apparel for the football team and things like that.
[49:24.320 --> 49:27.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And of course, um, similar situation with their human rights.
[49:27.700 --> 49:27.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[49:27.960 --> 49:31.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's in third worlds that are, you know, uh, you know, people talk about them a lot.
[49:32.300 --> 49:39.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you know, so, so, so, and I think that the, I don't know how the finances work.
[49:39.900 --> 49:57.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure that the university got some kind of financial considerations for, uh, for using the Pepsi and Nike and, and whatever other brands that they were sort of, uh, using, um, you know, and as far as, but as far as how that influenced the students,
[49:58.140 --> 50:06.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: um, I think a lot of students still were able to keep an independent mind about, you know, whether or not they chose to endorse the products that the university was basically selling them.
[50:07.340 --> 50:10.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, so, you know, I just wanted to provide that perspective.
[50:10.220 --> 50:10.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[50:10.900 --> 50:11.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[50:11.300 --> 50:11.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks.
[50:11.820 --> 50:12.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[50:12.360 --> 50:12.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[50:12.940 --> 50:17.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, if I went to a school that was a Pepsi school, I'd, I'd be selling Coke on the black market.
[50:17.720 --> 50:19.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, and I bet it's illegal too, to do this.
[50:19.720 --> 50:23.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll bet you, you're, you're not allowed to like, you know, sell cans of Coke out of your dorm room.
[50:23.640 --> 50:25.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's probably some sort of violation of university policy.
[50:26.100 --> 50:27.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not like they're any better.
[50:27.360 --> 50:28.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, no, that's not the point.
[50:28.380 --> 50:38.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: The point is just to like, do something to, uh, thwart the whole system because it really is very silly to, uh, to tell people you have no freedom of choice because, hey, we decide that this corporation owns us.
[50:38.940 --> 50:43.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Then you go to the board of directors and say, guys, we don't want Pepsi sponsoring us.
[50:43.920 --> 50:46.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: The bags of money they're bringing us, you get rid of them.
[50:46.820 --> 50:49.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: We want an extra $2,200 a year in our tuition.
[50:50.240 --> 50:58.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: We want, you know, to fund the, uh, the robotics lab ourselves because we're not going to have Siemens come in and give us some equipment.
[50:58.780 --> 51:00.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, Isaac, the whole point of tuition is to do just that.
[51:00.980 --> 51:07.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't, I don't understand what has changed over the years where we need all the corporate sponsorship when you have outrageous tuition to start with.
[51:07.420 --> 51:08.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, when, when did this happen?
[51:08.860 --> 51:13.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: You've clearly never tried to get a meeting with a board of trustees or regents if you, if you say that.
[51:13.940 --> 51:15.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I would imagine not.
[51:15.320 --> 51:17.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, that they don't exactly open up their doors.
[51:17.860 --> 51:22.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does anybody else in this room find that college is idiotic or am I just an analyst?
[51:22.720 --> 51:23.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, I dropped out.
[51:24.220 --> 51:25.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I probably dropped out my first semester.
[51:25.620 --> 51:26.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why don't you even go to college?
[51:27.020 --> 51:27.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well...
[51:27.380 --> 51:28.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just all this idiocy.
[51:28.620 --> 51:29.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is.
[51:29.100 --> 51:30.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not about learning.
[51:30.260 --> 51:34.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's about football and it's about corporate sponsorship and it's about getting a job when you get out.
[51:35.220 --> 51:39.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not about learning, not about socializing, not about, you know, expanding your mind, which is what it used to be.
[51:39.780 --> 51:40.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: With exceptions.
[51:40.440 --> 51:44.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do people actually jump out of bed in the morning all excited that they're going to a Pepsi school?
[51:44.680 --> 51:45.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, what the hell is that?
[51:46.660 --> 51:48.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, uh, it's weirdness, I know.
[51:49.720 --> 51:50.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's take another phone call.
[51:50.680 --> 51:50.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[51:51.000 --> 51:51.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[51:52.360 --> 51:53.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, good evening.
[51:53.520 --> 51:53.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: How you doing?
[51:53.800 --> 51:58.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I, I want to talk about, who, who is, uh, copywriting the airwaves?
[51:59.180 --> 52:08.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, the airwaves, uh, of, uh, radio stations like, uh, the cable TV and all those, all those, uh, all those corporations.
[52:08.600 --> 52:11.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, are they supposed to be giving us money back for that?
[52:11.900 --> 52:12.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[52:12.440 --> 52:13.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's FCC licensing.
[52:13.820 --> 52:18.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: You buy a frequency from the federal government and permission to use it within a certain range at a certain wattage.
[52:18.320 --> 52:19.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not copyright.
[52:19.500 --> 52:20.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's just a license.
[52:21.040 --> 52:25.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's basically giving away the people's airwaves to, uh, you know, to the highest bidder.
[52:26.220 --> 52:26.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it is.
[52:26.860 --> 52:32.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I don't know how you can license bits of the electromagnetic spectrum and, and basically say that, uh, you know, this, you can't do this.
[52:32.900 --> 52:34.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can't, you can't use this.
[52:34.240 --> 52:35.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a private property.
[52:35.520 --> 52:36.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because that's what the public airwaves have become.
[52:37.060 --> 52:37.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Private property.
[52:38.360 --> 52:38.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: I see.
[52:39.220 --> 52:39.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you.
[52:39.800 --> 52:40.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[52:40.340 --> 52:40.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[52:41.020 --> 52:43.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Try finding a station like WBAI anywhere else.
[52:43.540 --> 52:45.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Try starting a station like WBAI anywhere else.
[52:45.600 --> 52:51.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: The internet's the only chance you have now of getting a radio station off the ground because all the rest have been taken over.
[52:53.880 --> 52:54.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[52:54.560 --> 52:54.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Try.
[52:54.700 --> 52:55.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I, I, go ahead.
[52:56.920 --> 52:57.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[52:57.560 --> 52:57.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[52:59.440 --> 52:59.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[53:00.220 --> 53:01.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, I'll just be real quick.
[53:01.940 --> 53:03.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, uh, oh, God.
[53:04.180 --> 53:04.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[53:05.400 --> 53:06.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's go over here.
[53:06.220 --> 53:06.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[53:06.540 --> 53:06.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[53:07.540 --> 53:08.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hey, Emmanuel.
[53:08.620 --> 53:09.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, it's Shana.
[53:09.460 --> 53:09.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: How you doing?
[53:10.100 --> 53:10.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good.
[53:10.600 --> 53:11.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Isaac Fiber.
[53:11.880 --> 53:12.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Mike, I think, sir.
[53:12.960 --> 53:18.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so, um, Isaac, I'll save you your Lyco search about, uh, Burma and Pepsi.
[53:18.700 --> 53:19.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[53:19.140 --> 53:19.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, um...
[53:19.460 --> 53:20.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's called Myanmar.
[53:20.660 --> 53:21.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: What?
[53:21.340 --> 53:22.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so...
[53:22.060 --> 53:22.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not Burma, Myanmar.
[53:23.260 --> 53:24.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: It, isn't it the People's...
[53:24.560 --> 53:25.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Myanmar, I believe?
[53:25.780 --> 53:27.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it People's Republic of Myanmar?
[53:27.640 --> 53:28.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway.
[53:28.360 --> 53:28.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Whatever.
[53:28.880 --> 53:30.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, oh, whatever now.
[53:30.420 --> 53:31.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's know when it's an acronym.
[53:31.120 --> 53:31.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: After you've corrected me.
[53:31.980 --> 53:32.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[53:32.520 --> 53:36.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, when I was at, uh, NYU, though, we had a pizza house.
[53:36.940 --> 53:38.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Pizza Hut in our student center.
[53:38.280 --> 53:39.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Pizza Hut is owned by Pepsi.
[53:40.320 --> 53:40.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[53:41.200 --> 53:48.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, but we were, uh, I did some stuff with students for a free, uh, students for a free Burma, and we hunger striked.
[53:48.460 --> 53:51.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we had a hunger strike against, um, Pepsi.
[53:51.280 --> 53:53.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: You hunger striked against Pizza Hut and Pepsi?
[53:54.160 --> 53:55.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we didn't just hunger strike.
[53:55.580 --> 53:57.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: We had CNN in front of the campus.
[53:57.360 --> 53:58.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.
[53:58.980 --> 54:03.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: We had, um, we were, we were on a hunger strike until NYU got Pizza Hut out.
[54:04.520 --> 54:06.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we were really tired after a couple days.
[54:06.940 --> 54:07.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, wait a minute.
[54:07.640 --> 54:08.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: So what was the effect?
[54:08.520 --> 54:09.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did Pizza Hut leave?
[54:09.440 --> 54:10.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Pizza Hut did not leave.
[54:10.720 --> 54:25.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: However, it did generate major publicity, and Pepsi actually, I believe, reduced some of the, uh, they didn't, I don't think they took them out completely, but they did reduce a lot of, um, plants they had, um, in Burma, Myanmar.
[54:25.580 --> 54:31.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you, you feel that your demonstration had a direct effect on them closing plants in Burma?
[54:31.760 --> 54:33.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I like to think that the...
[54:33.860 --> 54:40.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: That it has nothing to do with the economic situation in the nation, where it's no longer profitable for them to operate in that region of the world.
[54:40.800 --> 54:42.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this happened very soon after, though.
[54:43.020 --> 54:44.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, this happened very soon after our protest.
[54:45.540 --> 54:50.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we'd like to think that when our pets die, they go to a nicer place, but we don't really know that for certain.
[54:50.220 --> 54:51.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, you're completely right.
[54:51.900 --> 55:01.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: However, I do think, though, that our demonstrations, as well as demonstrations of a lot of students throughout, um, universities and through everywhere, though, a lot, there were tons of demonstrations everywhere.
[55:02.160 --> 55:05.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know that, um, the ISO, we did a lot of demonstrations, too.
[55:05.960 --> 55:09.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, but, uh, it was very important.
[55:09.400 --> 55:10.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: It did have some sort of indirect effect.
[55:11.120 --> 55:18.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: When you're, I mean, when students are getting shown on CNN protesting, then there, then you know that you are having some sort of an effect.
[55:18.260 --> 55:21.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I mean, that's true as far as publicity.
[55:21.400 --> 55:22.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Publicity makes a great deal of difference.
[55:23.040 --> 55:28.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: The thing that worries me, though, is the publicity is... the control of that is being held by fewer and fewer people.
[55:29.000 --> 55:29.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[55:29.580 --> 55:34.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you know, if Time Warner doesn't want you on their airwaves, they simply won't put you on their airwaves.
[55:34.120 --> 55:38.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Then the event that you went through, even if thousands of people participated, it never happened.
[55:38.240 --> 55:39.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: It never took place.
[55:39.060 --> 55:40.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is totally frightening.
[55:41.240 --> 55:42.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, P.S.
[55:42.220 --> 55:45.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: about corporations and universities again, too.
[55:46.100 --> 55:51.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that corporations are now paying high school students to go to college and, like, work for them?
[55:51.660 --> 55:51.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[55:52.300 --> 55:53.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they're getting paid.
[55:53.780 --> 55:56.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, still juniors and seniors in high school.
[55:56.460 --> 55:57.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's actually a very good idea.
[55:57.960 --> 55:58.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on a second.
[55:58.600 --> 55:59.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on a second.
[55:59.220 --> 55:59.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everybody stop.
[55:59.820 --> 56:00.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everybody stop.
[56:00.360 --> 56:00.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: What?
[56:00.940 --> 56:02.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're paying all these corporations.
[56:02.560 --> 56:03.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know which one.
[56:04.220 --> 56:05.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's actually very simple.
[56:05.280 --> 56:05.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hang on.
[56:05.920 --> 56:06.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hang on.
[56:06.300 --> 56:09.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm asking her, what are these juniors and seniors in high school doing?
[56:10.360 --> 56:11.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's... I... I don't know.
[56:12.080 --> 56:16.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, um, Honor Society or Key Club or Junior Achievement or something.
[56:16.460 --> 56:17.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[56:17.420 --> 56:20.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: But they're... these corporations are recruiting these kids.
[56:20.580 --> 56:22.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like the military, but it's corporate.
[56:23.180 --> 56:24.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just as bad.
[56:24.600 --> 56:24.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait.
[56:24.980 --> 56:27.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are they giving them a scholarship to the school or something?
[56:27.560 --> 56:29.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm asking her.
[56:29.540 --> 56:30.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm asking her.
[56:30.160 --> 56:30.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, go ahead.
[56:30.580 --> 56:31.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll pay for your tuition.
[56:32.620 --> 56:34.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: You go to college for four years.
[56:34.240 --> 56:36.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then after that, we own you.
[56:36.580 --> 56:38.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, you come work for us.
[56:38.280 --> 56:39.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: We own you.
[56:39.220 --> 56:41.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: For instance, Boeing has a...
[56:41.280 --> 56:41.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on.
[56:41.680 --> 56:42.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on one second.
[56:42.420 --> 56:45.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, I'm familiar with the, with the, with, you know, the concept of scholarships.
[56:45.880 --> 56:46.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[56:46.240 --> 56:54.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, and basically, high-scoring students were given scholarships by certain organizations that would get publicity for sending these kids to college for free or whatever.
[56:55.140 --> 57:00.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, what, there's another part of this where the kids are indebted to the, to the organizations, have to go work for them, like the military?
[57:00.580 --> 57:02.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Boeing is looking for aerospace engineers.
[57:03.260 --> 57:03.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[57:03.640 --> 57:05.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: They have a lot of openings that they need to fill.
[57:06.220 --> 57:12.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: What they're going to do is give you X many dollars for you to go to college to study to be an aerospace engineer.
[57:12.560 --> 57:16.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: When you come out of college, you are guaranteed a seat at Boeing to work for them.
[57:16.760 --> 57:22.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you're going to work for them for X many years to repay your student loan from the corporation.
[57:22.200 --> 57:22.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is the military.
[57:22.920 --> 57:28.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you decide not to go to Boeing, you're probably going to have to pay them back or whatever other agreement that's there.
[57:28.640 --> 57:32.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's actually a very nice program that these companies are coming up with.
[57:32.460 --> 57:32.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: They benefit.
[57:33.040 --> 57:33.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: The students benefit.
[57:34.620 --> 57:35.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[57:35.740 --> 57:37.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a completely voluntary program.
[57:37.680 --> 57:41.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not like students are being roped into this and saying, you can't go to college unless you work with us.
[57:41.600 --> 57:46.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's also voluntary to join the military, but millions of kids are brainwashed every year by that little organization.
[57:46.460 --> 57:47.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's brainwashed.
[57:47.480 --> 57:47.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[57:47.920 --> 57:51.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you seen how much money you can get under the Montgomery GI Bill?
[57:51.840 --> 58:01.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you seen the bonuses that you get for going into the ROTC or deciding that, you know, you're going to serve for a couple of years and you come back and they'll educate you?
[58:01.240 --> 58:03.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you seen the propaganda that gets forced down your throat?
[58:03.620 --> 58:04.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: What propaganda?
[58:04.240 --> 58:04.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, please.
[58:04.800 --> 58:05.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ignore it.
[58:05.060 --> 58:05.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Turn off the television.
[58:06.080 --> 58:06.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Turn the dial.
[58:06.740 --> 58:08.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: You seem to like to say that a lot.
[58:08.300 --> 58:09.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isaac, off the podium.
[58:09.500 --> 58:10.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's get one more call here.
[58:10.580 --> 58:10.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[58:10.880 --> 58:11.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on.
[58:11.200 --> 58:11.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[58:11.920 --> 58:12.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi.
[58:12.360 --> 58:13.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'd like to really...
[58:14.320 --> 58:14.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Whoa.
[58:15.200 --> 58:15.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[58:15.560 --> 58:16.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know where to cause that.
[58:17.620 --> 58:17.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Huh?
[58:18.080 --> 58:18.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[58:18.380 --> 58:19.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Am I still on?
[58:19.540 --> 58:21.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Somehow you're on, but somehow you're off.
[58:21.160 --> 58:23.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so make your point quickly because that little thing is...
[58:23.720 --> 58:34.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I'd like to counter the art is where courts have waged free speech rights against other rights and have decided against free speech rights.
[58:34.570 --> 58:34.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[58:35.150 --> 58:38.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: In this case, it's enshrined in the Constitution.
[58:38.650 --> 58:42.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Intellectual property owners can do what they want with their property.
[58:43.230 --> 58:43.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately...
[58:43.790 --> 58:43.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh.
[58:44.730 --> 58:45.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[58:46.130 --> 58:47.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is really...
[58:47.350 --> 58:49.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't suppose that caller is still there in any forum.
[58:49.690 --> 58:50.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[58:50.350 --> 58:51.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a code blue.
[58:51.330 --> 58:52.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: The crash card is on that.
[58:53.010 --> 58:54.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: There was only one line.
[58:54.270 --> 58:55.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Somehow there were two lines on one there.
[58:55.810 --> 58:56.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know how that happened.
[58:56.390 --> 58:56.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[58:56.730 --> 58:57.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[58:58.930 --> 58:59.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[58:59.350 --> 59:00.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: You've got to move fast, folks.
[59:00.350 --> 59:00.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[59:00.950 --> 59:01.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[59:02.150 --> 59:02.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hello.
[59:02.510 --> 59:05.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't appreciate Isaac's comment about the robotics lab.
[59:06.210 --> 59:06.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[59:06.750 --> 59:09.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's wrong with my comments about the robotics lab?
[59:09.270 --> 59:13.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you're suggesting that the robotics lab is not something that is worth being funded?
[59:13.610 --> 59:14.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: No.
[59:14.330 --> 59:15.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[59:16.130 --> 59:24.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just saying that there are a lot of private corporations who have a vested interest in people learning about these fields, and they're going to give them money.
[59:24.790 --> 59:27.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, if you want to tell these guys, well, forget it.
[59:27.450 --> 59:27.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go away.
[59:28.570 --> 59:34.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're going to have to have the university pay for all this equipment and actually buy the equipment from these various companies.
[59:34.130 --> 59:38.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're going to see tuition skyrocket to the point where they're going to start dropping labs like this.
[59:38.010 --> 59:39.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I have seen tuition skyrocket.
[59:39.890 --> 59:41.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have seen programs dropped.
[59:41.050 --> 59:42.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just don't get it.
[59:42.230 --> 59:46.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't understand why it's necessary to sign these packs with the devil, as far as I'm concerned.
[59:47.990 --> 59:49.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: But we don't have any more time.
[59:49.490 --> 59:52.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd love to keep going about this for hours and hours, and I'm sure we could.
[59:53.390 --> 01:00:01.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want to write to us, OTH at 2600.com or off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 1005.
[01:00:02.410 --> 01:00:06.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll be back again next week with all kinds of fun things to talk about.
[01:00:07.350 --> 01:00:07.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Star.
[01:00:08.010 --> 01:00:09.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Key, colon.
[01:00:10.230 --> 01:00:10.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:00:10.470 --> 01:00:11.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Many other things as well.
[01:00:12.770 --> 01:00:13.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: End of file.
[01:00:13.930 --> 01:00:14.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:00:14.210 --> 01:00:17.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Until next week, Emmanuel Goldstein for Isaac, Fiber, everybody else.
[01:00:18.130 --> 01:00:18.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have a good night.
[01:00:26.680 --> 01:00:31.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:36.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:45.230]  [SPEAKER_22]: It couldn't get much worse, but the best expect from worst.
[01:00:45.230 --> 01:00:47.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: I hope that's understood.
[01:00:47.970 --> 01:00:48.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: Funding me, Mel.
[01:01:49.770 --> 01:01:52.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: Poverty of extreme unemployment.
[01:01:53.390 --> 01:01:55.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: April 29th.