Off The Hook - 2001-01-16

[00:00.000 --> 00:01.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: January 19th at midnight.
[00:02.080 --> 00:04.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Rock-On Volume 3 presents Artist Update.
[00:04.540 --> 00:08.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Only on WBAI in New York, 99.5 on your FM dial.
[00:14.300 --> 00:17.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's actually 99.5 on everyone's FM dial.
[00:18.060 --> 00:23.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: And right now on everyone's clock at Reed's 8 o'clock, that means time for Off the Hook.
[00:28.120 --> 00:32.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: The telephone is ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:33.540 --> 00:37.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:29.950 --> 01:36.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the program is Off the Hook with Emmanuel Goldstein, Isaac, a bunch of other people here in the radio station.
[01:37.910 --> 01:42.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I guess now's a good time to mention, just at the top of the hour, so there's no misunderstanding.
[01:42.710 --> 01:51.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've heard many people say this on the radio, that it's time we stick on the topic and anybody calling in to, you know, talk about other things.
[01:51.610 --> 01:52.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're just not going to permit that.
[01:53.810 --> 01:55.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not going to happen here.
[01:55.270 --> 02:01.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: People want to talk about something, our microphones are open, our phones are open, and we'll be talking about all kinds of things during this hour.
[02:01.390 --> 02:06.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, 212-209-2900 is our phone number, and it will always be open to our listeners.
[02:06.790 --> 02:10.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have a lot of information to give you this hour, so we're going to get started.
[02:36.480 --> 02:42.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes you read the newspaper and you just get really terrified because you realize all the things that law enforcement is doing to protect you.
[02:43.100 --> 02:46.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: You had no idea of the danger, and this is a good example of that.
[02:46.660 --> 02:55.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: A group of teen and young adult computer hackers allegedly planned an international conspiracy in which they hoped to take down the Internet, Isaac.
[02:55.580 --> 02:57.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, I have the same story here.
[02:58.240 --> 03:00.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, why did you have the same story?
[03:00.520 --> 03:01.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: You never have any stories.
[03:01.820 --> 03:02.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I thought it was interesting.
[03:02.220 --> 03:03.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And suddenly you had that story.
[03:03.420 --> 03:04.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I had that story.
[03:04.400 --> 03:05.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I figured I'd bring a few things.
[03:05.860 --> 03:07.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you know about this case, Isaac?
[03:07.380 --> 03:08.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's fairly amusing.
[03:08.640 --> 03:13.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Prior to the new year, the NIPC, the National Infrastructure Protection Center...
[03:13.680 --> 03:15.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's a bunch of federal agents out in the lobby, you know.
[03:15.540 --> 03:16.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you sure you want to be talking about this?
[03:16.900 --> 03:17.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, come on.
[03:17.420 --> 03:18.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: The NIPC guys are good.
[03:18.120 --> 03:19.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just happen to know a little too much about this case.
[03:20.880 --> 03:21.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Under the direction of...
[03:21.880 --> 03:22.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Stick around, Mike.
[03:22.360 --> 03:23.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: You might need to make an arrest.
[03:25.340 --> 03:27.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll be brought out of here in cuffs for some reason tonight.
[03:28.000 --> 03:28.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[03:28.900 --> 03:29.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Come on.
[03:29.200 --> 03:34.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Under the direction of Mike Vatties, issued a warning about computer zombies over the new year.
[03:35.060 --> 03:36.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they weren't talking about us.
[03:36.760 --> 03:37.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: They were not talking about us.
[03:37.840 --> 03:45.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: They were worried about all these, you know, distributed denial of service clients that could be running over the weekend while everyone was out on holiday.
[03:46.400 --> 03:50.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: So now all of a sudden, they happen upon this Dalnet problem.
[03:51.100 --> 03:56.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: These kids are running around and they were sitting on an IRC channel, as far as I know, and they just said, you know what would be cool?
[03:56.480 --> 03:57.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take down Dalnet.
[03:57.940 --> 03:58.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but when did this happen?
[03:59.940 --> 04:00.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Fairly recently.
[04:00.760 --> 04:01.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, it happened in October.
[04:01.920 --> 04:02.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: It happened in October?
[04:02.520 --> 04:14.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: According to the FBI agent, they were contacted by Dalnet last October, told that several young people, I don't know how they knew they were young, using their chat rooms, had disabled some of their computer systems and were discussing cyber terrorism online.
[04:15.000 --> 04:15.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: On Dalnet.
[04:15.700 --> 04:16.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh my God, yeah.
[04:16.460 --> 04:17.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: They were discussing it online.
[04:17.680 --> 04:20.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, similar problems have been happening to Undernetters and a couple of others.
[04:20.700 --> 04:20.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[04:21.060 --> 04:23.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, these kinds of things can happen all the time on the net.
[04:23.720 --> 04:24.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the nature of the net.
[04:26.440 --> 04:38.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, a 16-year-old Linwood Washington resident under investigation had boasted on a personal website that a plot to sabotage communications hardware on the web would take down the Internet on New Year's Eve 2001.
[04:39.140 --> 04:46.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, you morons, what we just went through was New Year's Eve 2000, New Year's Day 2001.
[04:46.300 --> 04:47.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know how it works?
[04:47.140 --> 04:49.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's one year, one day, one year, the next day.
[04:49.440 --> 04:49.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right?
[04:49.760 --> 04:52.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you know, the threat isn't for another, like, 300 days.
[04:52.500 --> 04:53.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: You caught that one?
[04:53.530 --> 04:54.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I caught that one.
[04:54.860 --> 04:55.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not bad.
[04:55.980 --> 05:04.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, the teenager later told the Los Angeles Times in an interview published in Friday's editions that the case is overblown and based on his misguided efforts to impress his friends in cyberspace.
[05:05.940 --> 05:07.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can't believe we're talking like this, even.
[05:09.420 --> 05:12.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: FBI agents took the boy's online missives seriously.
[05:13.080 --> 05:19.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: They searched his mother's house December 22nd, seized computer equipment, used from California, Michigan, and Israel.
[05:19.340 --> 05:22.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're also found to have discussed cyberterrorism in some chat rooms.
[05:22.880 --> 05:24.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a crime now, to discuss it.
[05:24.360 --> 05:26.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wonder if it's discussing it on a 50,000-watt radio station.
[05:26.910 --> 05:27.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: That must really be a crime.
[05:28.460 --> 05:35.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: They are suspected of trying to inject a malicious computer code into the web servers that form the communications backbone of the Internet.
[05:35.280 --> 05:36.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: The web servers.
[05:36.660 --> 05:39.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you know that web servers form the Internet communication backbone of the Internet?
[05:39.670 --> 05:40.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, sure.
[05:40.260 --> 05:42.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: I love just watching law enforcement people explain things.
[05:42.960 --> 05:44.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's really kind of cool.
[05:44.290 --> 05:47.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: I shouldn't say that with the law enforcement guys still in the studio.
[05:47.260 --> 05:54.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: But no, I mean people that profess to explain things they know nothing about, meaning computers and technology.
[05:56.140 --> 06:04.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, that would have allowed them to shut down some chat rooms and other realms of the Internet and possibly gain access to some people's personal computers, according to the FBI agent.
[06:06.260 --> 06:13.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: There is an ability with the proper program to take over another person's private computer and make that a robot, where you can operate it remotely.
[06:13.920 --> 06:14.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Beware the zombies.
[06:15.240 --> 06:20.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: The computer actually lifts up off the desk and starts walking around town causing mayhem.
[06:20.380 --> 06:21.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It takes 50 bucks from your wallet.
[06:22.200 --> 06:29.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: A lot of identity theft occurs as a result of hackers going into private computers, taking the information there, and doing with it what they will.
[06:29.790 --> 06:33.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, that's Matt McLaughlin saying this stuff at the L.A.
[06:33.840 --> 06:34.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: field office, no?
[06:34.880 --> 06:35.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: How would you know that?
[06:35.880 --> 06:37.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I guess you probably memorized the story, but...
[06:37.660 --> 06:42.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't memorize the story, but he's like turning into a big ZD net contact.
[06:42.580 --> 06:45.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: So this guy is a rising star in the media circus.
[06:45.700 --> 06:46.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: We all know what that means.
[06:46.600 --> 06:47.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: For NIPC.
[06:48.320 --> 06:56.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, FBI agents said it is difficult to know whether the teens were exaggerating because agents thwarted the alleged attack, so there's no way to know if they were telling the truth.
[06:56.520 --> 06:57.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isn't that lovely?
[06:58.200 --> 07:01.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, here's another pearl here for the new year.
[07:03.220 --> 07:06.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: This guy had the call sign N7QVC.
[07:06.670 --> 07:07.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you hear about this?
[07:07.780 --> 07:09.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: This ham radio guy in Oregon.
[07:09.480 --> 07:10.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's an amateur radio call sign.
[07:10.160 --> 07:11.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's an amateur radio call sign.
[07:11.740 --> 07:21.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: He was shocked this week to receive a sharply worded email from an attorney representing the QVC cable TV sales folks, accusing him of infringing on the QVC mark.
[07:21.260 --> 07:22.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, jeez.
[07:22.220 --> 07:23.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: The message was clear.
[07:23.340 --> 07:24.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Peterson would have to give up...
[07:24.660 --> 07:25.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: His name is Tony Peterson.
[07:25.700 --> 07:30.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Peterson would have to give up his N7QVC.com web domain or risk a huge lawsuit.
[07:31.200 --> 07:37.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Your unauthorized use of N7QVC.com is an infringement of the QVC marks, wrote attorney Stanley C.
[07:37.980 --> 07:38.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Macell III.
[07:39.160 --> 07:39.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: These guys are other names.
[07:40.160 --> 07:47.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is, your use of N7QVC.com is likely to cause the public to believe that you are sponsored or approved in some way by our client.
[07:47.790 --> 07:58.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: In addition, your use of N7QVC.com constitutes false advertising because it misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities, and origin of your commercial activities.
[07:58.600 --> 08:05.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: The situation was complicated by the fact that someone hacked Peterson's web domain and diverted it to a site containing questionable material.
[08:05.320 --> 08:06.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not quite sure what that means.
[08:07.760 --> 08:14.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Peterson responded promptly, explaining that his call sign-related domain name was purely non-commercial and had nothing to do with QVC.
[08:14.960 --> 08:21.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Attorney Macell quickly backtracked, although not without including some words to save his dignity, I guess.
[08:22.340 --> 08:37.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: While we find nothing objectionable about the manner of use of the QVC mark in your domain name, nevertheless, as the owner of a highly distinctive radio call sign and domain name yourself, I am sure you can understand the care with which we monitor QVC's brand identity in order to resolve this matter,
[08:37.740 --> 08:47.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: relying upon your representation that your use of the letters QVC and your domain name are used only for your personal use and not for commercial activities that would create the impression that you are affiliated with or connected with QVC, Inc.
[08:47.840 --> 08:49.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: in any way, we will take no further action.
[08:50.540 --> 08:51.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isn't that nice of him?
[08:52.000 --> 08:53.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a big way of saying oops.
[08:53.520 --> 08:58.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: What would have gotten very much more amusing was to say, you know, the FCC issued me those letters.
[08:59.480 --> 08:59.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[09:00.000 --> 09:01.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: He didn't even choose those letters.
[09:01.360 --> 09:01.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: He didn't choose them.
[09:01.720 --> 09:02.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: They were given to him.
[09:02.620 --> 09:03.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Got by random.
[09:03.540 --> 09:04.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: And unfortunately...
[09:04.320 --> 09:05.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unless he requested them.
[09:05.200 --> 09:07.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, fortunately, he went to somebody with enough guts to stand up to them.
[09:07.620 --> 09:10.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the ham community stood up for him, too.
[09:11.040 --> 09:12.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: You couldn't bow down to that, though.
[09:12.170 --> 09:12.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: What are you going to do?
[09:12.740 --> 09:14.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Tell the FCC, oh, listen, I've got to change my name.
[09:15.100 --> 09:15.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it wasn't...
[09:15.920 --> 09:16.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's going to take six months.
[09:16.440 --> 09:17.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: It wasn't the call letters they were objecting to.
[09:18.050 --> 09:19.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was the domain name.
[09:19.080 --> 09:19.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, the domain name.
[09:19.600 --> 09:21.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, the .com, because that's what confused...
[09:21.520 --> 09:24.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: They probably did some sort of a search for anything, you know, having QVC in it.
[09:24.700 --> 09:25.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's ridiculous.
[09:25.720 --> 09:25.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[09:26.280 --> 09:31.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think the strangest part of all this is that QVC sent a letter saying something about quality.
[09:32.420 --> 09:33.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the Shop at Home channel.
[09:34.560 --> 09:35.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, I know.
[09:35.140 --> 09:35.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, come on.
[09:35.520 --> 09:39.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: For four easy payments of $29.95, you, too, can have your own amateur radio license.
[09:40.140 --> 09:41.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm sure you can.
[09:42.980 --> 09:43.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: What else here?
[09:44.160 --> 09:46.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, this is interesting.
[09:46.100 --> 09:46.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is reassuring.
[09:46.740 --> 09:51.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure we'll all be comforted by this bit of news that we got off the wire, off the Associated Press.
[09:52.040 --> 10:03.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Police can more easily monitor criminals after a federal appeals court on Thursday lifted restrictions imposed on the Chicago force two decades ago to stop mistreatment of communists and other suspected subversives.
[10:03.900 --> 10:14.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Among the changes under the ruling, police will be allowed to investigate people photographed near crime scenes, keep records of suspects' gang affiliations, and keep files on known associates of organized crime figures.
[10:14.860 --> 10:22.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: The city's Red Squad, established in the 1920s, was designed to keep tabs on radical groups then viewed as enemies of the state.
[10:22.170 --> 10:27.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: But over 50 years, it also began keeping files on critics of City Hall.
[10:27.420 --> 10:28.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: But here's the reassuring part.
[10:28.880 --> 10:31.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Seventh U.S.
[10:31.480 --> 10:39.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Circuit Court of Appeals ruling said the restrictions should be lifted because police were no longer interested in harassing people who had unpopular views.
[10:40.840 --> 10:41.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's nice.
[10:41.760 --> 10:42.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's great news!
[10:42.450 --> 10:47.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I had no idea the police had reached that stage where they're no longer interested in harassing people with unpopular views.
[10:47.720 --> 10:48.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think we should celebrate.
[10:49.000 --> 10:51.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can I take a copy of that article with me to D.C.
[10:51.450 --> 10:51.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: this weekend?
[10:51.860 --> 10:53.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, why don't you celebrate in Washington, D.C.
[10:53.540 --> 10:54.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: on Saturday, in fact.
[10:55.020 --> 11:00.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bring a bunch of people with you, and I'm sure you'll be met with open arms, with batons attached to them.
[11:00.480 --> 11:04.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, on the other hand, what would prevent these people from actually maintaining those kinds of records of associations?
[11:05.140 --> 11:06.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I imagine...
[11:06.080 --> 11:07.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're not interfering with anyone's...
[11:07.260 --> 11:12.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It probably wouldn't be legal, but the fact that they would actually come out and say something like this, well, you know, they're not interested in this anymore.
[11:13.060 --> 11:15.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, it's the height of naivety, I think.
[11:15.420 --> 11:16.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've got an idea here.
[11:16.880 --> 11:17.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, Alex?
[11:17.560 --> 11:20.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think we should keep files on who the police associate with.
[11:20.500 --> 11:21.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I'd love to do that.
[11:21.280 --> 11:23.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think there's anything preventing you from doing that.
[11:23.240 --> 11:25.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I think maybe I should devote my life to that.
[11:26.140 --> 11:26.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Then go ahead.
[11:26.600 --> 11:29.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: You mean just have a list of all the cops in a precinct?
[11:29.400 --> 11:31.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: All the cops, and their friends, and, you know, where they go.
[11:32.180 --> 11:32.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: That'd be kind of cool.
[11:32.780 --> 11:35.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I always wanted to have a database of all the prisons.
[11:35.830 --> 11:44.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, where they are, pictures of them, you know, exactly what kinds of people are locked up in them, and, you know, just have an idea where the prisons are, how many of them there are, the secret ones that they don't want you to know about.
[11:45.540 --> 11:47.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, these are things that no one has.
[11:47.330 --> 11:49.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Freedom of Information Act will be your friend in that quest.
[11:49.320 --> 11:53.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, except you're trusting the people that you don't trust to give you the information through the Freedom of Information Act.
[11:54.000 --> 11:55.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's one thing I could never understand.
[11:55.400 --> 12:00.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: If, like, we went to the Canadian government or something and had them go get the information, then I might believe that they're actually trying to do it.
[12:00.780 --> 12:05.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: But since you're going to the people that are going to hold it back from you in the first place, I just don't have any faith in it.
[12:05.500 --> 12:10.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you could sue them if you know that they're withholding something, which winds up being very embarrassing for the organization.
[12:10.500 --> 12:12.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but who is it that decides the case?
[12:12.700 --> 12:15.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: A crusty old judge appointed by somebody, you know, in the federal...
[12:15.600 --> 12:17.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: He goes into the federal courts, yes.
[12:18.020 --> 12:18.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: You never win.
[12:19.320 --> 12:19.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[12:20.080 --> 12:20.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway...
[12:20.520 --> 12:21.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: You win more than you think.
[12:21.860 --> 12:22.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[12:22.720 --> 12:23.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe you did.
[12:24.330 --> 12:27.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here's another interesting story, which actually was a couple of weeks old.
[12:27.800 --> 12:28.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: You've probably heard about this.
[12:29.720 --> 12:40.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: Intel and IBM have invented and are pushing a change to the standard spec for PC hard drives that would make each one enforce copy protection on the data stored on the hard drive.
[12:40.460 --> 12:46.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: You wouldn't be able to copy data from your own hard drive to another drive or back it up without permission from some third-party.
[12:46.460 --> 12:54.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Every drive would have a unique ID and unique keys and would encrypt the data it stores, not to protect you, the drive's owner, but to protect unnamed third parties against you.
[12:55.060 --> 13:02.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the same guy who leads the DVD Copy Control Association is heading the organization that licenses this new technology, John Hoy.
[13:02.940 --> 13:03.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wonderful, gentlemen.
[13:04.120 --> 13:14.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the thing with that is it's an extension to some of the ATA standards, so that if you're not using those particular extensions, this stuff never gets turned on in the first place.
[13:14.140 --> 13:14.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[13:14.540 --> 13:21.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I'm somewhat, you know, wary of the entire thing happening, but I'm not seeing it as a big problem to those who don't think about it.
[13:21.120 --> 13:26.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not seeing it as a problem to get around, but it's something that's just another pain in the ass that you've got to deal with.
[13:26.260 --> 13:26.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Potential.
[13:26.800 --> 13:31.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I was playing with a DVD player on one of those new Mac cubes over the weekend.
[13:31.620 --> 13:32.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: They were really cool machines.
[13:32.740 --> 13:33.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're not supposed to play with DVDs.
[13:33.660 --> 13:34.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, well, that's just it.
[13:35.780 --> 13:49.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Remember, you weren't here last week, but I was talking about the edition of Eyes Wide Shut that I had, the European edition, where basically it's a totally different film where all the cut scenes are here, you know, restored, and no American can see it because...
[13:49.120 --> 13:50.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's Tom Cruise and...
[13:50.100 --> 13:51.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, yeah, they cut things from that.
[13:51.920 --> 13:53.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: They cut lots of things from that.
[13:55.000 --> 13:58.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I plugged it into this Macintosh, and it played instantly, beautifully.
[13:58.940 --> 14:03.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I was like, wow, I have a region-free DVD player in this thing.
[14:03.040 --> 14:09.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: But then I put in the American one, and it said, hey, you know, you set this thing up to be region two, and now you want to play region one.
[14:10.000 --> 14:13.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can do it for you, but I can only do that, you know, three more times, and then you're stuck.
[14:15.250 --> 14:17.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we had a bunch of people going through this.
[14:19.750 --> 14:21.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And unfortunately, it's a hardware thing.
[14:21.400 --> 14:22.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can't get around it.
[14:22.400 --> 14:26.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that was Apple's solution to, you know, shipping things around everywhere.
[14:26.680 --> 14:27.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[14:27.440 --> 14:32.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: If I wanted to watch, you know, if I wanted to watch different films, I'd have to buy seven different Macintoshes.
[14:32.900 --> 14:35.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or just keep putting DVD drives in them.
[14:35.440 --> 14:37.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, seven different drives or players.
[14:37.860 --> 14:39.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, you can only fit one drive in those things.
[14:39.300 --> 14:43.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe they should offer a package deal, you know, buy seven players for the price of four.
[14:43.160 --> 14:47.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, the idea is they don't want you to, you know, to be able to look at these things.
[14:47.940 --> 14:54.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: They really think it's harmful to the industry for you to look at foreign films or see something that was meant for another country, and it's sick.
[14:54.640 --> 14:55.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[14:55.100 --> 14:57.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I honestly think it's a bad business decision on that part.
[14:57.300 --> 14:57.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it is.
[14:57.880 --> 14:58.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is.
[14:58.180 --> 15:01.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: We don't feel it as much here because we have so much coming at us anyway.
[15:01.830 --> 15:04.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: But do you feel it in other countries where most of the releases come from here?
[15:05.100 --> 15:06.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we do feel it here.
[15:06.830 --> 15:10.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's things we don't know about, things from foreign countries that we just don't know we're missing.
[15:11.860 --> 15:12.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, moving on.
[15:12.640 --> 15:14.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a very interesting story.
[15:14.100 --> 15:16.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not sure if you've seen reference to this.
[15:16.700 --> 15:25.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: But there's this kid up in New Hampshire who's facing quite a bit of turmoil from his local police department.
[15:25.660 --> 15:30.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll read you the Associated Press story first, just to give you some balance here.
[15:30.800 --> 15:37.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Salem police have arrested a teen they say created several obscene websites that mock the Salem police department.
[15:38.320 --> 15:40.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the Salem witch hunts part two.
[15:40.580 --> 15:43.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's generally not a good idea, and I don't think these guys deserve that.
[15:43.820 --> 15:48.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not a good idea to mock police, but it is something that you are allowed to do.
[15:48.460 --> 15:48.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[15:48.980 --> 15:49.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Period.
[15:49.140 --> 15:50.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't see any problem with it at all.
[15:51.120 --> 15:51.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[15:51.640 --> 15:52.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: If they deserve it, otherwise it's a poor case.
[15:52.620 --> 15:57.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think New York City police look very silly driving around with those blue cars.
[15:57.460 --> 15:57.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: There.
[15:57.760 --> 15:58.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've said it.
[15:58.620 --> 15:59.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't drive blue cars anymore.
[16:00.080 --> 16:01.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, the ones that do.
[16:01.480 --> 16:04.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: The ones that drive the white cars, okay, they're macho men, but the other ones...
[16:06.970 --> 16:09.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: There'll be a bunch of them waiting outside this watch.
[16:10.120 --> 16:11.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: There might be quite a few.
[16:11.520 --> 16:12.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe they'll be invited in, too.
[16:12.800 --> 16:13.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[16:13.820 --> 16:17.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: But in any event, the point is, this is something that's known as speech.
[16:18.600 --> 16:19.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: This guy is...
[16:20.620 --> 16:21.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's call him Christopher.
[16:21.960 --> 16:22.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't want to give out all his information.
[16:23.000 --> 16:25.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Christopher was arrested Thursday night after a month-long investigation.
[16:25.680 --> 16:28.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's charged with misuse of computer system information.
[16:28.900 --> 16:29.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: A felony.
[16:29.880 --> 16:31.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Misuse of computer system information.
[16:31.800 --> 16:36.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: In his house, police say they found seven computers and how-to books on computer hacking.
[16:36.920 --> 16:44.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: One of the obscene websites took information from the Salem Police Benevolent Association site and parodied it by changing words and downloading pictures from the site.
[16:45.000 --> 16:48.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: A second site mentioned the department and had random pornographic pictures attached to it.
[16:50.640 --> 16:51.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Big deal, you know?
[16:53.080 --> 16:54.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why did the kid do that in the first place?
[16:54.660 --> 16:56.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it had something to do with...
[16:56.120 --> 16:57.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know the specifics.
[16:57.680 --> 17:02.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something to do with some bad experience he had with them.
[17:02.040 --> 17:03.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think that's really relevant, you know?
[17:03.620 --> 17:04.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think he is.
[17:04.680 --> 17:09.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, if he never had any running at all with the police, he still is allowed to make fun.
[17:09.440 --> 17:13.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: In fact, I think everybody in the country should make fun of the Salem Police Department.
[17:13.620 --> 17:18.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, people you've never met, a place you're probably never going to go to, you have the right to do this.
[17:18.440 --> 17:20.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Make fun of... pick up the police department and make fun of them, you know?
[17:20.860 --> 17:22.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there are certain bounds of...
[17:22.780 --> 17:23.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're right for the picking.
[17:23.620 --> 17:25.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are definitely bounds of good taste.
[17:25.420 --> 17:28.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, okay, but you don't put somebody in jail for bad taste.
[17:28.720 --> 17:29.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: You just don't do that.
[17:29.540 --> 17:32.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there are legal bounds beyond that, for libel and so forth.
[17:32.700 --> 17:35.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: We continue with another story from the Eagle Tribune.
[17:36.520 --> 17:46.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Captain Alan Gould said police obtained search and arrest warrants and went to this guy's house, I believe it was about a week and a half ago.
[17:47.220 --> 17:50.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Captain Gould said they found seven computers all networked together.
[17:50.300 --> 17:57.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Two laptops, a Palm Pilot, several hard drives, a large quantity of CDs, and a lot of literature and how-to books on computer hacking.
[17:58.440 --> 18:04.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: He said an article from the December 6th Eagle Tribune describing the parody website search was on top of one of the computers.
[18:05.080 --> 18:07.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a fairly new type of crime, Captain Gould said.
[18:08.200 --> 18:10.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: We haven't quite figured out what it is yet.
[18:10.660 --> 18:17.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: He said Officer Ronald Petal, who knows a lot about computers, actually says that here, was assigned the case.
[18:17.200 --> 18:19.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: He investigated with detectives to identify the hacker.
[18:19.900 --> 18:21.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: How the guy became a hacker, I don't know.
[18:21.780 --> 18:23.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know what the hacking part of this is.
[18:23.560 --> 18:25.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: The big problem was that you could very well...
[18:25.960 --> 18:26.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Listen to this guy.
[18:27.220 --> 18:34.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: The big problem we saw was that you could very well get onto this website, put in Salem, New Hampshire police, and read the obscenities and profanity.
[18:34.300 --> 18:36.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but you had to get to the website first to do this.
[18:37.140 --> 18:37.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, no.
[18:38.300 --> 18:44.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: He said all of his material was collected and will be checked by the state police lab in Concord, and the FBI lab is now a federal issue.
[18:44.880 --> 18:46.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Checked for what, exactly?
[18:46.280 --> 18:51.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, we also got mail from various people that know the person, and they have these corrections to make.
[18:52.000 --> 18:54.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: No charges of obscenity were actually made.
[18:54.420 --> 18:55.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: There was an inaccuracy of the press.
[18:56.460 --> 19:01.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Obscenity is not an issue, and they're trying to make this guy out to be a despicable character.
[19:01.620 --> 19:07.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: By killing his character in the press with irrelevant information and terminology, the unwashed masses don't wholly understand.
[19:08.660 --> 19:11.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: They hope to get an easy revenge prosecution.
[19:11.360 --> 19:13.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Local police did not like being made fun of.
[19:13.220 --> 19:13.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Remember Bernie S.
[19:13.840 --> 19:19.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Remember what happened when he did something that the Secret Service didn't like?
[19:19.280 --> 19:20.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, the local police are the same way.
[19:20.860 --> 19:24.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: When you make fun of them, they have a lot of power.
[19:24.460 --> 19:25.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a scary thing.
[19:25.340 --> 19:26.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Power is a scary thing.
[19:27.020 --> 19:30.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think the police department overstepped a few bounds with this one.
[19:30.640 --> 19:34.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: But in general, I mean, why are you bothering these guys?
[19:34.300 --> 19:35.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't get the greatest pay.
[19:35.900 --> 19:37.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're putting their lives on the line every day.
[19:37.860 --> 19:38.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[19:38.140 --> 19:38.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Leave them alone.
[19:38.900 --> 19:41.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, but that's a topic for morality class.
[19:41.920 --> 19:44.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's something that, you know, has nothing to do with legal issues.
[19:45.200 --> 19:47.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, you want to tell people to be good citizens, that's fine.
[19:47.880 --> 19:49.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's got nothing to do...
[19:49.640 --> 19:50.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, this isn't exactly legal discussion either.
[19:50.460 --> 19:55.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're running around talking about how guys in blue NYPD cars aren't macho and the rest of it.
[19:55.240 --> 19:56.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, I mean...
[19:56.220 --> 19:57.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: That really bothers you, doesn't it?
[19:57.840 --> 20:02.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: It bugs me because these men put their lives on the line every day.
[20:02.460 --> 20:03.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're out there doing...
[20:03.620 --> 20:03.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know...
[20:03.880 --> 20:05.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're dealing with the scum of your...
[20:05.260 --> 20:05.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, hold on a second.
[20:06.100 --> 20:06.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're more...
[20:06.520 --> 20:06.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Protecting you.
[20:06.860 --> 20:08.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: And all you can do is kick them.
[20:08.200 --> 20:08.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on a second.
[20:08.680 --> 20:10.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're more well-armed than anybody else in the street.
[20:10.520 --> 20:13.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: They've got a better chance of surviving any kind of ambush than any of us have.
[20:13.880 --> 20:16.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: So don't give me this, that they're putting their lives on the line every day.
[20:16.560 --> 20:18.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Careful, because you might bring me into the gun control debate.
[20:18.980 --> 20:22.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Lots of citizens have put their lives on the line every day against police.
[20:22.720 --> 20:24.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you know, this is...
[20:24.380 --> 20:26.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I respect people for doing their job.
[20:26.460 --> 20:28.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: But let's not make these into, like, superheroes here.
[20:29.300 --> 20:32.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: What is the name of the detective who knows a lot about computers?
[20:32.400 --> 20:34.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: The guy who knows a lot about computers.
[20:34.180 --> 20:35.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on, I'll put that part over here.
[20:35.220 --> 20:36.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it was Officer Piddles.
[20:37.120 --> 20:37.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Pettl.
[20:37.720 --> 20:38.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Pettl.
[20:38.220 --> 20:38.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[20:38.620 --> 20:39.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: I want him on the show next week.
[20:39.680 --> 20:40.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Ronald Pettl.
[20:40.560 --> 20:42.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, you can go up there and bring him back.
[20:43.280 --> 20:44.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, approximately 2 p.m.
[20:44.760 --> 20:55.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: on January 11th, 2000, police and FBI assistants entered this kid's house, proceeded to search the house unannounced to him who was sleeping.
[20:55.660 --> 20:56.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did they have a warrant?
[20:57.380 --> 21:01.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: They allegedly refused to present the search warrant until after the search had taken place.
[21:01.540 --> 21:02.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, that's a legal issue.
[21:02.920 --> 21:05.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the time he was arrested and brought into a cruiser.
[21:05.220 --> 21:07.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: He was detained at the local jail until 8 p.m.
[21:07.320 --> 21:12.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: that night when he was released on $5,000 personal reconnaissance bond.
[21:13.200 --> 21:14.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here's what they seized.
[21:14.480 --> 21:18.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Seven computers, including his parents' home computer, which is on the main floor.
[21:18.960 --> 21:20.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Two Coding is Not a Crime bumper stickers.
[21:21.360 --> 21:23.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: One Stop the MPAA sticker.
[21:23.860 --> 21:24.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wonder where that came from.
[21:25.380 --> 21:26.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: One Palm Pilot.
[21:26.620 --> 21:28.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: One Uniden Bearcat scanner.
[21:28.440 --> 21:30.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: One Magellan GPS 315 receiver.
[21:30.440 --> 21:31.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: One roll of exposed film.
[21:31.980 --> 21:33.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Two green vinyl photo wallets.
[21:33.620 --> 21:35.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: One virtual private network poster.
[21:35.600 --> 21:38.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: One yellow folder containing various papers from desk.
[21:38.920 --> 21:41.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: One handwritten paper with code numbers.
[21:41.820 --> 21:43.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a few books.
[21:43.480 --> 21:45.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: The titles like UNIX Underground Guide.
[21:46.440 --> 21:47.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maximum Linux Security.
[21:48.100 --> 21:49.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hacker's Guide to Maximum Security.
[21:49.840 --> 21:50.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And various things like that.
[21:53.380 --> 21:55.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's going to be arraigned on April 4th, 2000.
[21:56.700 --> 21:59.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I imagine the trauma will last a lot longer than that.
[21:59.660 --> 22:02.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something will be following over the weeks and months ahead.
[22:02.120 --> 22:03.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's, you know, it's the kind of thing.
[22:03.640 --> 22:06.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to pay close attention when this happens.
[22:06.860 --> 22:10.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, based on that, I think the PD seriously went over the line.
[22:10.280 --> 22:12.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'd say that's a mild way of putting it.
[22:12.600 --> 22:14.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I think he crossed a different line as well.
[22:15.040 --> 22:15.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, he crossed a different line.
[22:16.000 --> 22:17.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's got nothing to do with what they did to him.
[22:18.020 --> 22:19.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's got nothing to do with that.
[22:20.080 --> 22:21.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll think about that a little bit.
[22:21.080 --> 22:21.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, you think about that.
[22:21.980 --> 22:22.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[22:23.140 --> 22:25.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's look at some listener feedback.
[22:27.300 --> 22:28.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dear Off the Hook, love the show.
[22:28.520 --> 22:31.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who is the band that played that awesome version of 2001, The Space Odyssey?
[22:31.800 --> 22:32.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: You played it last week.
[22:32.800 --> 22:33.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well...
[22:33.060 --> 22:33.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you miss that?
[22:33.720 --> 22:34.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that was great.
[22:34.880 --> 22:36.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was something from the 70s.
[22:37.760 --> 22:38.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Diodato.
[22:38.200 --> 22:39.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: D-E-O-D-O.
[22:39.660 --> 22:41.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, D-E-O-D-A-T-O.
[22:41.700 --> 22:41.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[22:42.160 --> 22:44.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Look it up on some online CD purchasing thing.
[22:44.720 --> 22:46.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think that's the only place you'll find it.
[22:46.080 --> 22:48.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you'll see the theme to Also Swag Tharathustra.
[22:49.560 --> 22:51.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, yeah, it's really kind of cool.
[22:51.800 --> 22:52.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's...
[22:52.280 --> 22:54.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm surprised nobody else has remembered that.
[22:54.780 --> 22:56.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, they've been showing my age.
[22:56.320 --> 22:57.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: But that was a hit back when I was a kid.
[22:59.840 --> 23:00.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[23:00.520 --> 23:05.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for mentioning the CodeFreeDVD.com site on your show.
[23:06.040 --> 23:08.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was looking closer at the site and found a page.
[23:08.800 --> 23:14.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: www.CodeFreeDVD.com slash DVD underscore DVD ROM dot HTM.
[23:14.900 --> 23:24.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: At the bottom, they have a utility you can download called TPZone dot EXE, which allows you to change the region code on your IBM ThinkPad 7700 laptop.
[23:24.740 --> 23:27.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was created by some guy in Norway.
[23:28.400 --> 23:29.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not the same guy in Norway.
[23:30.440 --> 23:34.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, yeah, so people are figuring things out and more power to them.
[23:35.160 --> 23:37.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: But here's something that's kind of weird.
[23:38.640 --> 23:40.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: This guy here sent us mail.
[23:40.840 --> 23:43.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, he got mail from eBay.
[23:44.300 --> 24:00.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: We regret to inform you that your auction of an Apex Digital AD600A DVD player has been ended at the request of Macrovision Corporation, a member of eBay's verified rights owner program, because they filed a sworn statement that it offers a product or contains material which violates their copyright,
[24:01.020 --> 24:02.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: trademark, or other rights.
[24:02.900 --> 24:03.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[24:03.580 --> 24:08.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: eBay won't even allow you to sell a DVD player that can be region free.
[24:09.220 --> 24:10.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that amazing?
[24:11.260 --> 24:11.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[24:11.940 --> 24:12.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[24:12.960 --> 24:13.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[24:13.620 --> 24:14.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, Nazi paraphernalia.
[24:14.760 --> 24:15.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's okay.
[24:15.320 --> 24:18.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: But a DVD player that you can watch, you know, something from overseas on?
[24:18.020 --> 24:18.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it's not okay.
[24:18.200 --> 24:18.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: They won't let you do that.
[24:18.900 --> 24:20.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they will let you do it.
[24:21.280 --> 24:22.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: They'll let you sell...
[24:22.660 --> 24:23.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I believe so.
[24:23.740 --> 24:24.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe it's Yahoo.
[24:24.540 --> 24:24.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[24:24.960 --> 24:28.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the point is, they have all kinds of controversial things on there.
[24:28.200 --> 24:29.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a piece of technology.
[24:29.420 --> 24:32.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a piece of technology that allows you to view something that you've bought.
[24:32.900 --> 24:34.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: That you've bought yourself.
[24:34.300 --> 24:40.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they're saying, no, because these guys say that it's infringing on their rights, well, we can't let you do that.
[24:40.560 --> 24:45.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about we say that they're infringing on our rights and just ban the sale of DVDs altogether?
[24:45.540 --> 24:46.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know?
[24:46.240 --> 24:47.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: How fair would that be?
[24:47.200 --> 24:48.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got other alternatives to eBay.
[24:49.100 --> 24:51.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you can find other means to sell this.
[24:51.140 --> 24:56.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: eBay tends to be the biggest one, and that's the one that you have to listen to when they say something like this.
[24:57.060 --> 25:00.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Alex, you forwarded me this page last week.
[25:00.640 --> 25:03.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Last week, this was the one on sexual offenders.
[25:03.620 --> 25:06.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not quite sure why you forwarded it to me, but it was a very interesting page.
[25:06.520 --> 25:07.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, it was.
[25:07.060 --> 25:09.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I read the FAQ.
[25:09.500 --> 25:14.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's basically one of these sites where you can click on it to find out who all the sexual predators are in your neighborhood.
[25:14.540 --> 25:18.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, their address, phone number, favorite color, whatever.
[25:18.760 --> 25:20.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Whatever it is you need to know about them.
[25:20.060 --> 25:24.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: It gives their license plate number, the make and model of their car, just about anything you really want to know.
[25:24.300 --> 25:30.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, again, I was heartened by looking at the website, much in the same way I was heartened by looking at the new powers that Chicago police have.
[25:31.180 --> 25:39.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And basically, one of the questions was, what limits are imposed on a person who obtains information about an offender from the sex offender registry?
[25:40.320 --> 25:45.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they presume that information from the registry will be used responsibly to promote public safety.
[25:45.760 --> 25:51.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: The information may not be used to commit a crime against a person listed in the registry.
[25:51.360 --> 25:51.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I read that.
[25:51.920 --> 25:53.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, that makes it all...
[25:53.740 --> 25:54.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, that straightens it all out.
[25:54.780 --> 25:57.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think in general, you shouldn't be committing a crime.
[25:57.160 --> 25:59.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this information may not be used to commit a crime.
[25:59.480 --> 25:59.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean...
[25:59.880 --> 26:01.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's illegal to commit that crime, in fact.
[26:01.900 --> 26:02.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[26:02.140 --> 26:07.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: All you have to do is explain things to people in a straightforward manner, and you can rest much easier, you know?
[26:07.900 --> 26:09.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just lay it all out.
[26:09.900 --> 26:10.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[26:10.600 --> 26:11.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank God.
[26:11.340 --> 26:11.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[26:13.400 --> 26:15.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, now we move on to the fun stuff.
[26:15.740 --> 26:17.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure that's what all the phones are ringing about.
[26:18.360 --> 26:23.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Namely, the listener mail as well.
[26:23.900 --> 26:24.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: You've got a pile of paper there.
[26:24.840 --> 26:26.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, we have so much stuff.
[26:26.200 --> 26:27.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: We need more time.
[26:27.280 --> 26:27.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: We just do.
[26:30.160 --> 26:32.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: As you know, turmoil is still rageous here at the radio station.
[26:35.680 --> 26:41.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we are here to provide a voice for people that have things to say or announcements to make.
[26:41.480 --> 26:49.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's why, if you are calling in, I ask that we allow new callers to get in, to have their say, to say whatever is on their mind.
[26:50.020 --> 26:53.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I'd rather not have any lengthy sermons or speeches or things like that.
[26:53.640 --> 26:55.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you have an important announcement, that's fine.
[26:55.160 --> 26:56.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: But we're going to announce a bunch of things here.
[26:56.720 --> 27:00.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I think if we miss something, then give us a call.
[27:02.620 --> 27:04.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to read this letter, first of all, that we just got today.
[27:06.880 --> 27:08.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dear Off the Hook, thank you.
[27:08.560 --> 27:09.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: He says thank you many times, actually.
[27:09.880 --> 27:10.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to read it once.
[27:10.640 --> 27:22.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you for the excellent job you do week in and week out, keeping us informed about the currents that ebb and flow through our media universe, not least of all the way you have thoughtfully but passionately described the recent goings-on in our little corner of it,
[27:23.000 --> 27:23.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: WBAI.
[27:24.200 --> 27:35.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Daily News' WBAI piece you read this week was certainly apt and positive in saying that the people, the listeners who have paid for the station time and time again should have some say in what happens to it.
[27:35.340 --> 27:40.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: But unfortunately, it contributes to some very faulty and very common thinking about audience.
[27:41.160 --> 27:51.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: When ratings and marketing types say WBAI has no audience or no audience to speak of, what they really mean is that according to the way success is measured through arbitron ratings, WBAI is irrelevant.
[27:52.360 --> 27:58.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the arbitrons, part voodoo, part quadratic equation, are only predictors of commercial viability.
[27:58.400 --> 28:06.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Secondly, success in the ARBs means holding, as if holding hostage, a high percentage of a particular demographic group for a sustained period of time.
[28:06.620 --> 28:09.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the richer that demographic, the happier the station management.
[28:09.780 --> 28:14.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this is, or at least should be, completely irrelevant to a non-commercial station like WBAI.
[28:15.380 --> 28:19.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Public broadcasters around the world use vastly different methods for understanding and appreciating their audiences.
[28:20.020 --> 28:30.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: The REACH model of audience analysis determines success by how many different people from different constituencies tune into your station during the course of a week, even if it's only for a short period of time.
[28:30.600 --> 28:39.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: In this way, REACH works with public broadcasting's mission of providing alternatives and accessing people across society while it respects listeners as being able to choose what they do and don't want to listen to.
[28:40.020 --> 28:42.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Another method is listener commitment.
[28:42.320 --> 28:49.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: WBAI is an incredibly high percentage of listeners that actually contribute to it during fun drives, much more than double that of WNYC.
[28:49.460 --> 28:50.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't know that.
[28:50.420 --> 28:51.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's pretty good.
[28:51.400 --> 28:53.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: But no one's talking about reinventing them.
[28:53.360 --> 28:59.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Simply put, Arbitron's share is only one way of thinking about valuable radio and a way that it is neither democratic.
[28:59.960 --> 29:04.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Stations want the right listeners, not the most listeners, nor necessarily in the public interest.
[29:04.880 --> 29:10.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: WBAI is, in many ways, and for all its faults, the most relevant radio station in New York City.
[29:10.520 --> 29:15.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's signed from Professor Martin Spinelli of Brooklyn College.
[29:15.580 --> 29:17.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you very much for writing that letter.
[29:17.240 --> 29:22.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think you hit home a lot of points that need to be hit.
[29:24.280 --> 29:26.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have some very interesting developments here.
[29:27.260 --> 29:29.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: People were listening to the radio over the past couple of days.
[29:30.040 --> 29:33.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: They've seen, if anything, this crisis is not dying down.
[29:33.360 --> 29:39.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's heating up as all kinds of controversies and conflicts are spilling out over to the airwaves.
[29:41.020 --> 30:02.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yesterday's morning show in particular was just unbelievable, the things that went on as Amy Goodman pretty much, we know Amy Goodman as a colleague here, someone we've worked with in the past, who more recently interviewed President Clinton and reported from the WTO protest in Seattle and got beaten up in Indonesia and various things like that.
[30:02.980 --> 30:11.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, things that any good reporter might expect to do in a career, but Amy has done an incredible amount of really hard-hitting news.
[30:11.660 --> 30:20.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: To hear her being attacked like that on her own show, a show that she's co-hosted on by people that have been brought in, I don't know why.
[30:20.460 --> 30:22.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not sure what the rationale is.
[30:23.220 --> 30:23.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's frightening.
[30:24.040 --> 30:25.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really is to hear this kind of thing going on.
[30:26.040 --> 30:35.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: What makes it somehow a lot more comforting, though, is when we go to the phones and the listeners are out there and the listeners get it, the listeners understand.
[30:35.640 --> 30:48.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I have to apologize to the listeners for the way they've been treated on some of these segments where they've been berated, mocked, made fun of, all kinds of lousy things that they don't deserve.
[30:49.240 --> 30:51.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: But just to let you know, we are out here.
[30:51.820 --> 30:53.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: We are in the radio station.
[30:53.180 --> 30:54.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: We do appreciate you.
[30:54.820 --> 30:57.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we will be here for you.
[30:57.260 --> 31:01.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you have a voice at this radio station as long as we have a voice here.
[31:01.560 --> 31:05.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: The times I'm not listening to... the times I'm not doing this radio show, I'm a listener.
[31:06.120 --> 31:13.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's, I think, vitally important to always be listening to the station, to hear the kinds of things that go on, to hear what other people are saying.
[31:14.400 --> 31:22.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think, if anything, if there's anything positive to come out of the The whole crisis that's been going on over the past few weeks, it's that we're paying a lot closer attention.
[31:22.380 --> 31:24.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where this is going to go, we don't know.
[31:25.590 --> 31:29.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: The fundraiser, which was supposed to have started yesterday on Martin Luther King Day, has not started.
[31:30.900 --> 31:33.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm hearing vague reports that it's going to be starting in February.
[31:35.420 --> 31:37.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, we don't know what's going to happen.
[31:38.050 --> 31:44.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: If things continue to deteriorate, it's likely that listeners won't want to support the radio station.
[31:44.160 --> 31:50.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think that honestly would be a mistake because the radio station is the place where we can have this dialogue.
[31:50.920 --> 31:56.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, if the dialogue goes away and there's no dialogue at all, then yes, maybe it's not worth supporting.
[31:56.800 --> 32:11.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: If the dialogue is there and if there's an opportunity to further this and keep the dialogue open, then yeah, it might not be exactly where you want it to be, but you have to invest something to keep it going so that it might get there one day.
[32:11.420 --> 32:18.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have an important announcement concerning the listener lawsuit which is going on.
[32:20.960 --> 32:23.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to read this and we'll take some phone calls.
[32:23.540 --> 32:24.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[32:25.780 --> 32:35.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: As we're sure you are aware, we are now at a critical juncture in our determined effort to restore uncensored free speech and community control to Pacifica radio stations nationwide.
[32:36.860 --> 32:50.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: The recent holiday massacre at WBAI, with the summary dismissals of the station manager, program director, and a union shop steward, and the banning of at least five other people from the station, as well as Pacifica's continuing harassment and attempted censorship of Democracy Now,
[32:50.960 --> 32:53.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: underscores the urgency of our legal work.
[32:53.280 --> 33:00.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: We must dismiss the illegitimately selected Pacifica National Board and hold them accountable for the damage our beloved institution has suffered.
[33:00.640 --> 33:11.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're writing to you now to urge your financial support for a key legal effort that must move forward immediately if we are to prevent further deterioration in the already alarming condition of Pacifica.
[33:11.380 --> 33:25.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: In a few days' time, we plan to proceed with the local advisory board's California Superior Court lawsuit against Pacifica, seeking to undo the unilateral changes in the bylaws, which allowed the board to become self-selecting and self-perpetuating.
[33:26.580 --> 33:31.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have already begun taking deposition testimony from former Executive Director Lynn Chadwick.
[33:31.700 --> 33:46.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have sent notice to Board Chair Mary Frances Berry, Controller Sandra Rosas, current Chair David Acosta, current Acting Executive Director Bessie Walsh, Treasurer Michael Palmer, and former Treasurer June McCalla, that they will be deposed shortly.
[33:46.920 --> 33:48.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I can tell you, depositions are a lot of fun.
[33:49.360 --> 33:55.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: In addition, we are demanding full and complete records for the first time of Pacifica's revenue and expenditures.
[33:55.160 --> 34:01.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: But in order to conduct these depositions and to get these important records, we need your financial support immediately.
[34:03.660 --> 34:16.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the address to send your financial support is Siegel, S-I-E-G-E-L-N-E-Y-E-E Trust account, 499 14th Street, Suite 200, Oakland, California, 94612.
[34:16.780 --> 34:25.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: The check should be made out to Siegel and E-Trust, and Pacifica's suit should be written in the memo area of the check.
[34:26.130 --> 34:28.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: And some upcoming events.
[34:29.020 --> 34:38.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's going to be a rally outside the radio station again tomorrow, from 4 to either 6 or 7, depending on who you believe.
[34:38.800 --> 34:43.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's probably going to go to 7, if it's anything like the one that took place a week and a half ago.
[34:43.020 --> 34:46.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, we had the rally a week ago Saturday.
[34:46.760 --> 34:47.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it was really good.
[34:47.860 --> 34:54.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think more than 700 people showed up, which is a good number for the middle of winter in New York City.
[34:55.220 --> 34:56.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: We need to bring those numbers up, though.
[34:57.000 --> 34:58.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: We need to get more people out there participating.
[34:58.920 --> 35:00.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because I hear a lot of people complaining.
[35:00.780 --> 35:03.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hear a lot of people spreading information that's not always accurate.
[35:03.700 --> 35:06.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's just a sense of hopelessness.
[35:08.120 --> 35:14.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nothing dispels that sense of hopelessness more than getting together with people and just rallying for a cause.
[35:14.720 --> 35:16.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a cause to rally for.
[35:16.700 --> 35:21.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was very disappointed seeing virtually no off-the-hook listeners at the last rally.
[35:21.480 --> 35:23.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hope that does not happen again this time.
[35:24.200 --> 35:34.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Whatever you're doing, see if you can find a little bit of time to come to 120 Wall Street from 4 to 6 tomorrow and show your appreciation for the radio station.
[35:35.020 --> 35:38.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's 120 Wall Street just east of Water Street, Lower Manhattan.
[35:38.460 --> 35:40.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's practically on the East River.
[35:42.360 --> 35:43.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And what else?
[35:43.640 --> 35:45.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's Friday, January 19th.
[35:45.660 --> 35:50.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's a noon rally outside the offices of Epstein, Becker, and Green in Washington, D.C.
[35:50.420 --> 35:55.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: So if you're going down there to protest all kinds of other things, just add that to the list.
[35:55.440 --> 35:58.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're at 1227 25th Street Northwest.
[36:01.100 --> 36:07.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Pacifica National Board Member John Murdoch is a partner at Epstein and Becker, in case you're wondering why they've been targeted.
[36:08.020 --> 36:10.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And on Sunday, January 21st, a 1 p.m.
[36:10.540 --> 36:12.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: rally at Pacifica National Headquarters.
[36:12.220 --> 36:17.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're located at 2390 Champlain Street Northwest in Washington, D.C.
[36:18.900 --> 36:32.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: So those are the immediate events that are taking place and the immediate cries for help that are going out over various lists, various Internet domains and things like that.
[36:33.300 --> 36:39.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've had some very interesting developments also on the technology side.
[36:39.840 --> 36:48.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: We mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the WBAI website, which had a lot of information about what was going on here at the radio station, that's suddenly been silenced.
[36:48.440 --> 36:49.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's suddenly been just turned off.
[36:50.060 --> 37:00.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: So all you see there right now is a link to the main Pacifica site and I think a button to listen live to WBAI and just our call letters and big letters.
[37:01.340 --> 37:07.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not very informative, doesn't have a schedule, doesn't have a staff list, doesn't have really anything on there.
[37:07.540 --> 37:13.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you know, one thing that the people who did that forgot to do was erase the files.
[37:14.300 --> 37:14.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[37:14.960 --> 37:18.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: They left the files right where they were or in a very predictable directory.
[37:19.690 --> 37:21.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they were all restored.
[37:21.340 --> 37:22.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: You could copy them all.
[37:22.360 --> 37:23.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can still do that to this day.
[37:23.280 --> 37:24.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll bet if you can figure out where they are.
[37:24.900 --> 37:27.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just copy them off the site and restore them.
[37:27.360 --> 37:30.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's a restored version of the WBAI.org website.
[37:30.320 --> 37:35.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can visit www.savewbai.com.net.org.
[37:35.820 --> 37:37.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think they're all taken.
[37:37.500 --> 37:43.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And on there you'll see a link to the old WBAI.org site as it existed at the end of December.
[37:44.160 --> 37:46.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And on there you'll find all kinds of information.
[37:46.760 --> 37:53.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: You'll find all kinds of things about the radio station that are relevant, are very relevant.
[37:54.420 --> 37:55.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Including a call for volunteers.
[37:56.000 --> 37:56.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[37:56.800 --> 38:00.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: A call for listener volunteers currently not allowed in the station.
[38:02.260 --> 38:03.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I hope that comes to an end.
[38:04.020 --> 38:04.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here's the thing.
[38:04.840 --> 38:09.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have all kinds of different factions of people that are opposed to what's going on here.
[38:10.100 --> 38:13.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you're on the mailing list, you'll get sick watching them go back and forth.
[38:13.400 --> 38:14.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Accusing each other of being collaborators.
[38:15.340 --> 38:18.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you know, where were you five years ago when we were fighting this and that?
[38:18.940 --> 38:22.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you know, how can you say that you want to bring the old general manager back?
[38:22.820 --> 38:25.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it was worse then than under the new one.
[38:25.740 --> 38:28.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not what any of this should be about.
[38:28.680 --> 38:30.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: What it's all about is process.
[38:30.860 --> 38:34.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: What it's all about is the radio station in general, accountability to the listeners.
[38:34.960 --> 38:39.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you feel that there is a problem there, that's all you need to agree on.
[38:39.940 --> 38:41.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's all it needs to be about.
[38:41.600 --> 38:43.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want the bans to be lifted.
[38:43.240 --> 38:46.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want people who have been banned from the station to be allowed back in the station.
[38:46.860 --> 38:51.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not necessarily in the roles that they held before, but just allowed in the building to do radio.
[38:51.580 --> 38:53.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Which is why we're all here.
[38:54.380 --> 38:55.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Then you're part of it.
[38:55.820 --> 38:56.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Then you agree.
[38:56.720 --> 38:59.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want the security people not to be in the station.
[38:59.600 --> 39:02.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not to be deciding who comes in and who does not come in.
[39:02.560 --> 39:03.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nice as they may be.
[39:04.280 --> 39:05.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's got nothing to do with personalities.
[39:07.320 --> 39:10.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've existed for this many years without a security force.
[39:10.620 --> 39:11.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've been open to the community.
[39:12.140 --> 39:15.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want it back the way it was, then you agree with us.
[39:16.520 --> 39:18.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's as simple as that.
[39:18.940 --> 39:22.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you come to the rally tomorrow, you'll probably hear people say things that you might not agree with.
[39:22.900 --> 39:25.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: You might hear people say that Mamiya should be free.
[39:25.540 --> 39:28.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you might think that he should be executed tomorrow.
[39:28.620 --> 39:29.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[39:29.840 --> 39:30.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[39:30.680 --> 39:32.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not the same issue.
[39:33.140 --> 39:33.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a different issue.
[39:34.380 --> 39:37.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: You should come for one issue, which is the radio station.
[39:38.360 --> 39:39.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nothing else.
[39:41.980 --> 39:42.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[39:42.860 --> 39:51.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, in addition to the restoration of the website, there's another technological coup that took place only last night.
[39:52.800 --> 39:58.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And for that, we have to give credit to Mike from Columbia, who just came down and figured it all out.
[39:58.560 --> 40:01.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Basically, starting at 3 a.m.
[40:01.360 --> 40:16.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: this morning, we set up a script, set up a little cron job on a couple of computer systems to record WBAI off the air, encode it into MP3 and store it.
[40:16.540 --> 40:23.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that if ever anything were to happen over the air, such as what happened yesterday morning, there will be a record of it.
[40:24.090 --> 40:28.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You will hear exactly what happened over the air, whether it's at 4.18 in the morning or 12 o'clock noon.
[40:29.120 --> 40:31.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: You will hear exactly what happened.
[40:31.760 --> 40:36.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: And what we're doing is, I believe Mike was, what, storing it for about a week?
[40:38.020 --> 40:38.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the plan.
[40:38.900 --> 40:40.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: The plan is to store it for about a week.
[40:40.380 --> 40:45.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if anything needs to be referenced, we have access to it.
[40:45.340 --> 40:46.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's all automated.
[40:47.130 --> 40:48.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's fairly simple.
[40:48.420 --> 40:49.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: You set this up in a couple of hours.
[40:49.920 --> 40:50.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[40:50.800 --> 40:51.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: How does it work?
[40:52.760 --> 40:54.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: It just records it.
[40:54.220 --> 40:55.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a radio plugged into my computer.
[40:56.020 --> 40:56.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's it.
[40:56.700 --> 40:57.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: And a little recording program.
[40:57.940 --> 40:58.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[40:58.220 --> 40:59.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just a radio plugged into a computer.
[40:59.580 --> 41:00.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's all it took.
[41:00.480 --> 41:01.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: All this time.
[41:02.150 --> 41:03.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And nobody came up with this until now.
[41:04.580 --> 41:06.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what I like about this community.
[41:06.020 --> 41:08.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: People come forward and they say, I can do this.
[41:08.780 --> 41:10.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: And here's how you do it.
[41:10.560 --> 41:16.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then we've accomplished a lot just by that one little tiny effort.
[41:16.680 --> 41:16.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Short.
[41:18.360 --> 41:18.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[41:19.620 --> 41:19.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[41:19.780 --> 41:24.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh, that's kind of cool.
[41:24.160 --> 41:24.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's kind of cool.
[41:24.820 --> 41:29.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: I actually, I listened to the morning show today just to hear what happened, what I missed because I was sleeping.
[41:30.320 --> 41:32.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and, uh, it was very interesting.
[41:32.440 --> 41:38.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, when relevant things happen to, uh, to what's going on in the radio station, they'll be posted on various websites.
[41:38.080 --> 41:41.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: One website which I think everybody should visit is, uh, Radio for All.
[41:41.700 --> 41:45.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's R-A-D-I-O, the number four, A-L-L dot org.
[41:46.020 --> 41:51.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, on there you can find out all kinds of information, not only about Pacifica, but all kinds of different, uh, radio throughout the world.
[41:52.060 --> 42:00.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, but in addition, you'll hear a, um, an amazing, uh, collection of, um, archived material.
[42:00.240 --> 42:15.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I listened last night to, uh, to a WBAI takeover in 1977 where WBAI staffers went to the Empire State Building and took over the transmitter room because WBAI management had ordered the station turned off the air.
[42:15.720 --> 42:23.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: The, the staff members revolted and they went to the, uh, to the transmitter room and, and, and broadcast from there, not knowing if they were even going out over the air.
[42:23.440 --> 42:25.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's really kind of, uh, interesting to hear.
[42:25.980 --> 42:26.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Somebody captured it.
[42:27.080 --> 42:32.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Somebody, uh, recorded it, put it up on the MP3 format and you can go to that site and you can hear it.
[42:33.480 --> 42:45.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, great collection of material up there and, uh, no doubt it will improve over the, uh, next few weeks as we get all kinds of other, uh, bits of information and, uh, historic broadcast here at WBAI.
[42:45.280 --> 42:47.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, that, that site is, uh, radio for all.org.
[42:48.040 --> 42:48.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Dot net.
[42:48.880 --> 42:49.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dot net.
[42:49.640 --> 42:50.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dot net as well.
[42:50.380 --> 42:51.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually.
[42:51.180 --> 42:57.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dot net, uh, goes directly to, uh, to, I think the library of, uh, of files, but that's where all their audio is.
[42:57.880 --> 42:57.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[42:58.020 --> 43:04.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dot org has more material on dot org links to dot net, but, uh, yeah, just explore around and you'll, you'll, uh, see that as well.
[43:05.050 --> 43:13.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, and finally, uh, one other note, many of you know Mitch Cohen, who, uh, is somebody that, uh, has, uh, has, uh, has been organizing, organizing all kinds of things.
[43:13.780 --> 43:17.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've known him since my days at Stony Brook, uh, for many, many years now.
[43:17.360 --> 43:26.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, he, uh, somebody that, uh, has popped into the green campaign and has popped into the save WBAI campaign and, uh, Mitch suffered a heart attack last week.
[43:26.680 --> 43:30.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, so, um, our thoughts go out to him.
[43:30.520 --> 43:35.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, he, um, is at St. Luke's hospital and supposedly feeling better.
[43:35.320 --> 43:36.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hope, uh, hope that is true.
[43:36.960 --> 43:39.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: And our, our best wishes go out to Mitch for a speedy recovery.
[43:40.820 --> 43:44.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: And hopefully, uh, we'll see him again at a rally one day.
[43:44.200 --> 43:45.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think there's a single rally I've ever been to.
[43:45.940 --> 43:46.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't see Mitch somewhere.
[43:47.180 --> 43:49.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: I actually talked to him about a month ago.
[43:49.360 --> 43:49.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[43:49.920 --> 43:50.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, through email.
[43:50.960 --> 43:55.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you order the green party organizing kit, he has an essay in there.
[43:55.600 --> 43:57.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, and it's all about direct action.
[43:57.500 --> 44:04.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he talks about a lot of efforts in the late seventies that happened at university at Stony Brook, uh, things that would never happen now.
[44:04.140 --> 44:08.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I emailed him and said, I, I can't believe these things actually happened at Stony Brook.
[44:08.240 --> 44:08.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[44:09.500 --> 44:10.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: He was a really nice guy.
[44:10.900 --> 44:11.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, he is.
[44:11.660 --> 44:12.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's a, he's a great guy.
[44:12.680 --> 44:15.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, he's a definite fixture at, at, at Stony Brook.
[44:15.460 --> 44:20.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: He, he was, uh, there for many years as in fact, as an undergraduate, graduated by accident.
[44:20.320 --> 44:20.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I understand.
[44:20.980 --> 44:22.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: We usually do from Stony Brook.
[44:22.640 --> 44:23.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Very upset by that.
[44:24.220 --> 44:25.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, yeah.
[44:26.860 --> 44:28.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isaac, I want to ask you a question.
[44:28.460 --> 44:28.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Shoot.
[44:29.120 --> 44:32.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, how do you feel about not being heard?
[44:32.140 --> 44:35.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, not having your, your voice, um, listened to.
[44:36.640 --> 44:37.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's frustrating.
[44:37.320 --> 44:37.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[44:37.740 --> 44:38.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, just in general.
[44:39.460 --> 44:39.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[44:39.780 --> 44:44.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm thinking, I'm thinking of the people out there who we really have to take calls from and I want to do that very, very quickly.
[44:44.600 --> 44:45.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: But speaking of not being heard.
[44:45.700 --> 44:45.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[44:45.840 --> 44:51.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't want to, I don't want to, uh, illustrate that myself, but, uh, those people can't get through, can't have their voices heard.
[44:52.180 --> 44:53.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't you feel how frustrating that would be?
[44:53.980 --> 44:54.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's very frustrating.
[44:56.140 --> 45:01.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, I understand that you've been very disappointed with, uh, the last eight years with the Clinton administration.
[45:02.000 --> 45:02.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I have.
[45:02.560 --> 45:02.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[45:02.980 --> 45:05.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can see your red face with rage.
[45:05.460 --> 45:07.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: In fact, you've been that way for quite some time.
[45:07.220 --> 45:08.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the clock is ticking down.
[45:08.520 --> 45:11.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the last week that, uh, the Clinton will be in office.
[45:11.620 --> 45:18.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was wondering if, since this is the last week, if there's any kind of feedback you might have for the president.
[45:18.540 --> 45:19.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: And here's the thing.
[45:19.580 --> 45:20.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not going to put you on the spot here.
[45:20.980 --> 45:22.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to call in your feedback.
[45:23.200 --> 45:24.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll, I'll put it under my name, in fact.
[45:24.940 --> 45:31.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: So tell me right now, just what would you like me, assuming we can get the president, Bill, the presidential feedback line.
[45:31.420 --> 45:33.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's assuming we can get that on the, on the air right now.
[45:34.520 --> 45:35.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: What would you have me say to him?
[45:35.840 --> 45:36.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So many things.
[45:37.260 --> 45:37.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And just pick one.
[45:38.060 --> 45:38.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, geez.
[45:39.560 --> 45:40.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can't.
[45:40.600 --> 45:41.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've really put me on the spot.
[45:42.020 --> 45:43.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just pick anything.
[45:43.380 --> 45:45.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, let's, you know, come up with a subject.
[45:45.320 --> 45:48.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: At every, at every turn, he has been a disgrace to the office.
[45:48.420 --> 45:49.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Disgrace to the office.
[45:49.140 --> 45:49.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[45:49.400 --> 45:51.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you gotta be more specific than that.
[45:51.700 --> 45:52.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: How so?
[45:52.380 --> 45:56.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Foreign policy, domestic policy, homosexual rights, what?
[45:56.080 --> 46:00.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anything from moral ambiguity straight up to treason, if you ask me.
[46:00.200 --> 46:00.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Treason.
[46:00.640 --> 46:01.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Talk about ambiguity here.
[46:03.120 --> 46:05.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it depends what you mean by is.
[46:05.740 --> 46:06.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:06.260 --> 46:12.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, let's, let's just get a little bit more focused here on, on, on what specifically, you know, we're getting Clinton on the line in a second.
[46:12.580 --> 46:13.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you want me to say?
[46:13.220 --> 46:14.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to have Bill on the line.
[46:14.180 --> 46:15.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you want me to say?
[46:15.100 --> 46:17.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: You want me to say, uh, you could have done a better job at what?
[46:18.960 --> 46:20.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: At being a president in general.
[46:20.860 --> 46:20.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[46:21.020 --> 46:22.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something that's currently happening.
[46:22.220 --> 46:23.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something that's happening right now.
[46:23.280 --> 46:23.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who cares?
[46:23.880 --> 46:24.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: A recent thing.
[46:24.900 --> 46:25.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[46:25.460 --> 46:26.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Leonard Peltier thing, okay?
[46:27.100 --> 46:27.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Leonard Pelt...
[46:27.700 --> 46:29.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Should he give clemency to Leonard Peltier?
[46:29.340 --> 46:29.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: No way in hell.
[46:30.140 --> 46:30.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: No way in hell.
[46:30.720 --> 46:30.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[46:31.040 --> 46:39.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to call up right now, as myself, and pass that message on for you, as a public service, because I believe that the people have a right to be heard.
[46:39.660 --> 46:40.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right?
[46:40.460 --> 46:44.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, the feedback line, incidentally, is 202.
[46:45.040 --> 46:47.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: It just doesn't, like, make a really high-pitched tone that's irritating.
[46:47.860 --> 46:48.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[46:48.180 --> 46:48.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know why I did that.
[46:50.220 --> 46:51.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's my feedback joke for the day.
[46:55.420 --> 46:58.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: 202-456-1111 is the White House feedback line.
[46:59.740 --> 47:00.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[47:00.200 --> 47:02.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, we have to enter our magic code for long distance.
[47:02.820 --> 47:03.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And here we go.
[47:10.020 --> 47:12.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for calling the White House Comments Office.
[47:12.780 --> 47:16.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: The office will be closed during the transition to the new administration.
[47:17.080 --> 47:20.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: We appreciate your call and apologize for any inconvenience.
[47:21.380 --> 47:22.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[47:25.160 --> 47:25.480]  Uh...
[47:26.240 --> 47:27.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's not a beep.
[47:29.340 --> 47:30.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: That sounds like they hung up on you.
[47:31.020 --> 47:32.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I want to leave feedback.
[47:32.540 --> 47:33.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You want to leave feedback?
[47:33.840 --> 47:34.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to call the...
[47:34.660 --> 47:35.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Put the mic up to the speaker.
[47:35.880 --> 47:36.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, right.
[47:36.500 --> 47:36.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Very funny.
[47:36.880 --> 47:37.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to call the, uh...
[47:40.720 --> 47:41.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: The main number.
[47:44.310 --> 47:45.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: That shouldn't happen.
[47:45.290 --> 47:45.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: The feedback line.
[47:45.910 --> 47:46.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: How could a feedback line be closed?
[47:48.810 --> 47:49.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[47:49.610 --> 47:49.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[47:51.970 --> 47:52.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll soon...
[47:52.530 --> 47:53.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll get to the bottom of this.
[47:53.590 --> 47:54.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll pass you a message along.
[47:54.810 --> 47:55.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: I promise.
[47:55.210 --> 47:56.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have reached the White House.
[47:56.530 --> 48:00.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you would like to leave a message or comment, please press one now.
[48:00.430 --> 48:03.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you know your five-digit extension, please press two.
[48:04.050 --> 48:06.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wait for the tone, then dial your extension.
[48:06.750 --> 48:09.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you need operator assistance, please press three.
[48:09.990 --> 48:11.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you have a rotary phone...
[48:11.670 --> 48:12.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to go for operator assistance.
[48:15.010 --> 48:17.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think the other one will just loop back into...
[48:17.210 --> 48:17.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: It does.
[48:17.630 --> 48:17.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[48:22.330 --> 48:23.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, White House?
[48:23.390 --> 48:23.710]  Yes.
[48:24.410 --> 48:24.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[48:25.570 --> 48:26.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm having some trouble.
[48:26.430 --> 48:29.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm trying to leave feedback on the feedback line.
[48:29.030 --> 48:30.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it says the feedback line is closed.
[48:31.250 --> 48:31.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[48:36.490 --> 48:38.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, how do I leave feedback now?
[48:38.590 --> 48:39.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: You'll be able to, sir.
[48:39.650 --> 48:40.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not able to leave feedback.
[48:41.010 --> 48:41.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: You see, here's the thing.
[48:41.790 --> 48:42.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here's the problem.
[48:42.210 --> 48:45.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: President Clinton is the person I want to leave feedback for now.
[48:45.310 --> 48:47.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: In another few days, it's going to be President Bush.
[48:47.250 --> 48:47.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[48:48.070 --> 48:49.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so I don't want to leave feedback for President Bush.
[48:50.110 --> 48:52.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: The offices are closed until then.
[48:52.470 --> 48:54.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: But how do I leave feedback for President...
[48:54.270 --> 48:54.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: You won't be able to.
[48:55.730 --> 49:00.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: You mean, you're saying that the most powerful country in the world, I can't leave any feedback.
[49:00.350 --> 49:00.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Exactly.
[49:01.290 --> 49:02.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you know why this is?
[49:02.810 --> 49:05.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because it's closed down until Saturday.
[49:06.190 --> 49:07.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: And who made this decision?
[49:07.690 --> 49:08.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: He did.
[49:08.890 --> 49:09.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who did?
[49:09.570 --> 49:10.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: The President.
[49:10.550 --> 49:12.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: The President himself made this decision.
[49:12.510 --> 49:13.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: I see.
[49:13.770 --> 49:17.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it possible to transfer me to somebody that would know more about this?
[49:17.530 --> 49:19.130]  The offices are closed.
[49:19.370 --> 49:20.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: The offices are closed.
[49:21.430 --> 49:21.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[49:22.350 --> 49:23.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, thank you very much.
[49:23.530 --> 49:24.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're very good at your job.
[49:25.490 --> 49:27.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Should get a better speaker for the phone now.
[49:28.290 --> 49:29.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry, Isaac.
[49:29.170 --> 49:30.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what it feels like to be shut out.
[49:31.850 --> 49:32.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't bother me.
[49:33.610 --> 49:34.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, he probably used to it.
[49:34.530 --> 49:35.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not this time.
[49:35.430 --> 49:35.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know.
[49:35.650 --> 49:35.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[49:35.930 --> 49:37.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're not going to let that happen to our listeners.
[49:37.150 --> 49:38.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[49:38.850 --> 49:40.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's take some phone calls.
[49:40.190 --> 49:40.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[49:40.550 --> 49:41.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[49:41.450 --> 49:41.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, hello.
[49:42.010 --> 49:42.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Great.
[49:42.470 --> 49:42.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: How you doing?
[49:43.010 --> 49:43.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[49:44.450 --> 49:45.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let me just turn this down.
[49:45.610 --> 49:45.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[49:45.850 --> 49:45.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[49:46.650 --> 49:53.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know where to begin except to say that, thank God we have people like you on the air letting people speak.
[49:53.590 --> 50:08.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: And with each passing day, did you say incidentally that it might be feasible or do you think it is feasible to get the last two morning tapes with Amy and Riley?
[50:08.830 --> 50:16.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know that yesterday's morning show is up on radioforall.org.net, whatever.
[50:16.490 --> 50:25.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I know that today's was recorded by the new modern technique that was just installed that automatically records all programming on the radio station.
[50:25.730 --> 50:26.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yes, it's all there.
[50:28.670 --> 50:35.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: I really strongly suggest people listen to yesterday's program because you'll hear someone being very intimidated.
[50:35.470 --> 50:38.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was feeling very badly for Amy, and Amy's a friend.
[50:38.430 --> 50:39.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Amy is a colleague.
[50:39.050 --> 50:41.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Amy is somebody that we've worked with here at the radio station for many, many years.
[50:42.450 --> 50:57.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: And to hear her being cowed into submission like this, I don't want to go into too much detail because I don't want to take away from the rest of the show, but I suggest people listen to that and hear just what some people here have to endure.
[50:58.410 --> 51:07.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was very impressed with listener response, how people, you know, backed her up and, you know, sent her, I guess, condolences.
[51:08.990 --> 51:17.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think the only thing that we can really do to prevent abuse of people like this is just to be eternally vigilant, always be listening and spreading the word.
[51:17.670 --> 51:17.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[51:18.130 --> 51:19.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just two other things.
[51:19.530 --> 51:24.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was actually responsible for a lot of the brouhaha today.
[51:24.890 --> 51:25.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Which brouhaha was that?
[51:26.250 --> 51:27.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: I missed today.
[51:27.170 --> 51:27.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: What happened today?
[51:27.810 --> 51:28.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[51:28.370 --> 51:31.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: I called in and...
[51:31.190 --> 51:31.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, wait a minute.
[51:31.890 --> 51:32.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait a minute.
[51:32.270 --> 51:33.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I did hear part of the show.
[51:33.490 --> 51:35.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're not the guy who called somebody a Nazi, are you?
[51:36.390 --> 51:37.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, Hitler.
[51:37.670 --> 51:38.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, boy.
[51:38.690 --> 51:38.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[51:39.050 --> 51:40.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let me just say one thing, okay?
[51:40.630 --> 51:47.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the kind of thing that, I'm sure you know, leads us down paths we do not want to go.
[51:48.090 --> 51:50.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: People should not be name-calling.
[51:50.190 --> 51:53.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: In fact, I think people really shouldn't be focusing on the personalities.
[51:53.050 --> 51:58.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm trying not to get into a personality issue as to, you know, who is evil and who is not.
[51:58.410 --> 52:01.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't happen to believe that people are sitting down with an evil agenda.
[52:01.930 --> 52:03.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think people are misguided.
[52:03.490 --> 52:10.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think people are basically doing what they think is right but not seeing how wrong it actually is.
[52:10.810 --> 52:13.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's up to people like you to set them straight.
[52:13.810 --> 52:18.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you're not going to do that if you alienate them by calling them, you know, Hitler.
[52:18.330 --> 52:19.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I agree with that.
[52:20.210 --> 52:22.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the only reason...
[52:22.630 --> 52:43.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: I began by saying, and I was the last call, I believe, that, you know, Amy, we love you, the listeners love you, we support you, and you should be nominated for the Nobel Prize, the Pulitzer Prize, rather.
[52:44.690 --> 52:44.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[52:46.410 --> 52:53.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then I was going to characterize Utrese's outrageous interruption.
[52:54.110 --> 52:54.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[52:55.230 --> 52:58.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was going to characterize it.
[52:58.570 --> 53:09.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Amy, in fact, realized that my characterization might not be appropriate, as you pointed out.
[53:10.030 --> 53:10.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay?
[53:10.750 --> 53:10.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[53:11.010 --> 53:14.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: I really don't know how I would have characterized it.
[53:14.410 --> 53:23.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: At any rate, she was the first one to say, wait, stop, you know, please do not categorize someone like this.
[53:23.930 --> 53:26.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I hadn't even said anything.
[53:26.710 --> 53:29.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: I hadn't even made the characterization of Utrese.
[53:30.210 --> 53:30.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[53:31.170 --> 53:31.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[53:31.950 --> 53:41.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, he immediately starts saying, I'm going to hang up on you, hang up on you, you know, and I hadn't done anything.
[53:41.330 --> 53:42.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: In fact, I stopped myself.
[53:42.830 --> 53:43.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[53:44.290 --> 53:55.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, the only thing that came to my mind before this individual hung up on me was that I wanted to tell him that he's a fascist, okay?
[53:56.130 --> 54:02.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, the word Hitler came to mind as substituting for dictator or fascist.
[54:02.470 --> 54:04.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he ran with that line.
[54:05.550 --> 54:09.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: He tried to make it appear that there was no doubt...
[54:09.050 --> 54:14.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a very insulting thing to say to somebody, regardless of how much you disagree with them.
[54:14.510 --> 54:15.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: What about dictator and fascist?
[54:15.190 --> 54:15.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry?
[54:15.790 --> 54:17.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: What about dictator and fascist?
[54:17.710 --> 54:22.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that an insulting thing to say to a person who is acting like...
[54:22.770 --> 54:25.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, yeah, it's not a compliment, but I think you...
[54:25.030 --> 54:26.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do I have a right to say that?
[54:26.210 --> 54:30.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think when you refer to somebody as Hitler, though, I think that's really stepping over the line.
[54:30.930 --> 54:31.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I agree with you.
[54:31.870 --> 54:32.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[54:32.290 --> 54:34.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was a mistake, but it was merely...
[54:34.070 --> 54:37.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it goes much further, because he went absolutely...
[54:37.290 --> 54:49.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I understand what you said before, that you think people are doing things because they feel it's right, even though their actions are not to the general good of the listeners, okay?
[54:49.570 --> 54:51.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I will go a step further than that.
[54:51.790 --> 55:09.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I will say, I didn't hear the show yesterday, but his actions towards Amy, after that call, were just hysterically paranoid and rude and vicious.
[55:09.910 --> 55:12.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, that's something...
[55:12.290 --> 55:19.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: He accused her, okay, with absolutely no justification of getting people...
[55:19.310 --> 55:33.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: He said exactly that there was a plot to get people together, an organized plot, and the listeners just heard one of Amy's people calling up.
[55:33.130 --> 55:33.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[55:33.490 --> 55:39.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the thing is, the listeners are way too smart to fall for anything that is, you know, concocted out of thin air.
[55:40.410 --> 55:42.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: They know there's no plot.
[55:42.610 --> 55:45.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: They know that, you know, listeners are speaking from the heart.
[55:45.490 --> 55:56.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: The thing is, when you resort to name-calling, you pretty much give the battle to your opponent, because that makes you into the person that's not acting rationally.
[55:56.250 --> 55:59.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: You recognized your mistake, and I thank you for that.
[56:00.050 --> 56:05.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: And let's hope that we can move together, you know, in somewhat constructive terms from this point on.
[56:05.730 --> 56:08.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't want to cut you off, but we do have to move on to other phone calls.
[56:08.910 --> 56:10.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: I want to get more than just one phone call in tonight.
[56:10.750 --> 56:12.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks very much for calling, though, and for straightening that out.
[56:13.590 --> 56:14.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[56:15.110 --> 56:15.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[56:16.130 --> 56:16.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rebel, how are you?
[56:17.130 --> 56:23.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, technically you're not banned anymore, because you didn't call us for the specified time, and you've been a good citizen.
[56:24.490 --> 56:30.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but I just wanted to mention that I've learned a lot from this radio station, not only this show, but this radio station.
[56:30.610 --> 56:32.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's something we'll just have to live with.
[56:32.010 --> 56:44.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And also, I'd like to talk about payphones being annoying when they say, you know, every time you dial any phone, it says, thank you for using Verizon or whatever, and then you have to wait a couple of seconds before it dials.
[56:44.950 --> 56:46.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you only have a couple more seconds of this.
[56:46.890 --> 56:49.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and then radio stations keep announcing their website.
[56:49.550 --> 56:53.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like in the news, they say, if you want the five-day forecast, visit our website.
[56:53.530 --> 56:55.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: But there's nothing but annoying advertisements.
[56:56.550 --> 56:58.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Kind of like what we're hearing right now.
[56:58.530 --> 57:00.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks very much for calling, though.
[57:00.070 --> 57:01.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it's good to hear your voice again, it really is.
[57:01.910 --> 57:02.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's take another phone call.
[57:02.730 --> 57:03.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[57:03.270 --> 57:04.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[57:04.390 --> 57:05.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Emmanuel and Isaac.
[57:05.830 --> 57:07.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: Paul Guerin here with an ICANN update.
[57:08.230 --> 57:09.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Make it quick, make it quick.
[57:09.390 --> 57:09.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I will, yeah.
[57:09.990 --> 57:24.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: On January 12th, the chair of the Committee on Commerce and Energy summoned CEO Mike Roberts of ICANN before the committee to account for ICANN's decision to give the top-level domains to all the big companies.
[57:24.930 --> 57:34.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: There are hearings coming up in February, and I had already started a petition to have myself as a witness representing namespace, and there's a number to call.
[57:34.730 --> 57:45.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: Talk to Cliff Riccio in charge of the telecom organizations for the committee witnesses, and the number is 202-225-2927.
[57:45.950 --> 57:46.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[57:46.290 --> 57:53.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or you can fax to 202-225-2899, and people can see updates on reclaimthe.net.
[57:53.650 --> 57:54.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks very much for calling, Paul.
[57:54.790 --> 57:55.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good luck to you.
[57:55.710 --> 57:56.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speaking of the phone call.
[57:56.770 --> 57:57.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[57:57.390 --> 57:58.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[57:59.210 --> 57:59.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speak up.
[57:59.650 --> 58:00.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[58:00.270 --> 58:00.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[58:00.830 --> 58:01.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Real quickly, sorry.
[58:02.750 --> 58:04.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have a roommate, and he's...
[58:04.510 --> 58:05.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have my own phone, right?
[58:06.010 --> 58:06.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[58:06.210 --> 58:06.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[58:06.650 --> 58:07.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's getting...
[58:07.410 --> 58:15.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: He wants to get his own line, and Verizon wants to charge him $200 because I just have a hole there with the line.
[58:15.730 --> 58:16.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: No jack.
[58:16.790 --> 58:16.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[58:16.890 --> 58:18.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there any way to get around with that?
[58:18.370 --> 58:18.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: $200?
[58:20.050 --> 58:20.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um...
[58:20.410 --> 58:21.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can put a jack on yourself.
[58:22.570 --> 58:25.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can go down to Radio Shack, buy a jack, and put it on yourself.
[58:25.250 --> 58:27.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, there's nothing stopping you from doing that.
[58:27.070 --> 58:27.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then what?
[58:28.250 --> 58:32.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, then they would bring the line into wherever the line comes into your building.
[58:32.370 --> 58:34.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: But they're going to charge him $150 for that.
[58:34.610 --> 58:34.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh...
[58:34.970 --> 58:36.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think they're only supposed to charge about $80 for that.
[58:36.970 --> 58:37.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what I thought.
[58:37.870 --> 58:38.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[58:38.170 --> 58:38.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: Installation cost.
[58:39.010 --> 58:40.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't let them in your front door.
[58:40.350 --> 58:41.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't let them do any...
[58:41.190 --> 58:43.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, as soon as they get in your front door, that's where you have problems.
[58:43.590 --> 58:48.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel, they're saying without the jack, $150 even if we have a jack.
[58:49.090 --> 58:49.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh...
[58:49.450 --> 58:50.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is just not right.
[58:50.910 --> 58:50.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[58:51.250 --> 58:57.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the front of your phone book, there should be an itemization of all the charges and what, uh, what they can charge for, for what particular service.
[58:58.170 --> 58:59.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what you need to look at.
[58:59.810 --> 59:03.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Consult that and see if, uh, you know, see if there's any kind of difference.
[59:03.190 --> 59:05.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: If there is, then, you know, go someplace else.
[59:05.770 --> 59:07.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Quick announcement for local, uh, listeners?
[59:07.410 --> 59:07.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Quickly.
[59:08.190 --> 59:08.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh...
[59:08.630 --> 59:12.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Tomorrow night, uh, 630 at 590 Madison, the IBM building.
[59:12.690 --> 59:20.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, N-Y-L-U-G.org is hosting, uh, David Korn, author of The Korn Show, for, uh...
[59:20.030 --> 59:20.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: Cool.
[59:20.150 --> 59:22.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Spend an evening with a prominent figure in computing.
[59:22.670 --> 59:22.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[59:23.050 --> 59:23.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[59:24.470 --> 59:24.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: Quickly.
[59:25.430 --> 59:25.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[59:25.990 --> 59:26.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, go ahead.
[59:26.590 --> 59:27.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I can't believe I got through.
[59:27.510 --> 59:36.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I just want to say that the other caller that was talking about, how he mentioned that, uh, Clayton or whoever was, uh, Hitler.
[59:36.690 --> 59:36.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[59:37.310 --> 59:39.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, saying, well, you know, I take that back.
[59:39.810 --> 59:41.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's just a fascist and a dictator.
[59:41.870 --> 59:50.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, look, the listeners who are calling up or in calling, uh, hosts' names, okay, um, that's not constructive dialogue.
[59:50.850 --> 59:57.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to convince somebody of your point of view, the worst possible thing you can do is call names.
[59:57.810 --> 59:58.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Absolutely.
[59:58.370 --> 01:00:03.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't believe, I mean, I was upset that you let him on for so long because I really was outraged.
[01:00:03.370 --> 01:00:05.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I don't want to cut people off, even though I'm going to have to cut you off.
[01:00:05.870 --> 01:00:06.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know, I know.
[01:00:06.570 --> 01:00:08.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, I did want to hear his point of view.
[01:00:08.350 --> 01:00:09.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wanted to hear his side.
[01:00:09.270 --> 01:00:10.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: I understand that.
[01:00:10.110 --> 01:00:17.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm just saying that it's so destructive that you're actually falling into the hands of those who want to break up WBAI.
[01:00:18.110 --> 01:00:20.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the whole thing of divide and conquer.
[01:00:20.290 --> 01:00:22.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, now, who wants to break up WBAI?
[01:00:23.190 --> 01:00:23.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pacifica.
[01:00:24.010 --> 01:00:25.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, but, uh...
[01:00:25.450 --> 01:00:28.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, when you fight amongst yourselves, when you call names...
[01:00:28.390 --> 01:00:39.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: ...instead of rationally saying, this is what I believe, this is what I think the station should do, or this is what I think we should do to restore the station the way it was, or whatever, that's constructive dialogue.
[01:00:39.330 --> 01:00:39.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[01:00:39.750 --> 01:00:43.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tim Burton, um, has always been about constructive dialogue.
[01:00:43.670 --> 01:00:54.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I do not blame him one iota, regardless of how much I love Amy Goodman, and I think that I was upset when, you know, she was cut off, and there was music, and I was really upset, I was so disgusted...
[01:00:54.650 --> 01:00:55.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Five seconds.
[01:00:55.370 --> 01:00:59.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm just saying that, please, name-calling is ridiculous.
[01:00:59.330 --> 01:01:00.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I have to agree with you on that.
[01:01:00.870 --> 01:01:04.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, people remember what we're here for, remember what we agree on.
[01:01:04.450 --> 01:01:07.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll see you at the rally tomorrow, 4 o'clock, outside the radio station, 120 Wall Street.
[01:01:07.590 --> 01:01:08.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm Emmanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[01:01:08.870 --> 01:01:09.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good night.